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@Mugwump 
Thanks! 
You're Welcome. 
 
New Explanation Of Why "Quake Brown" 
Youtube recommendations brought me this video. The section on Quake contains a new (to me) explanation why there supposedly is so much brown in Quake. Timestamped for your convenience.

https://youtu.be/rN9nbGBXc8U?t=5m59s

Let's just say I'm not convinced by the explanation. Sharing this just to amuse and/or annoy.

P.S. You can visit Quaddicted via the hide.me proxy with the U.S proxy location. Downloads seem to work that way too. 
 
He's kind of right, by starting to talk about the palette and lighting, but he swerves off a bit I think.

It's not the brown is a super special color for the purposes of showing light variation. It's just that they needed to eat up a lot of slots in their palette to generate different brightness levels of each color that they wanted to use, resulting in a limited number of colors. 
 
https://quakewiki.org/wiki/Quake_palette

Arguably "brown" only has 2 rows. Colormap shows that purple has just as much lighting variation as brown.

Purple.


Quake purple. 
Quite. 
 
Which Is The One True Shade Of Purple? 
Are there any wads that use a lot of purple? could be a fun theme to map in. 
 
how come the test maps in AD are so pretty 
#30552 
Purple doesn't work well at all with Quake's palette, which is why I had to use true-color external textures for Quenching Urges of Constant Killing. 
Purple? 
Fucked Up If True. 
 
how come the test maps in AD are so pretty

I think because sock made them (maybe others contributed or made some too).

I played the test map with the breakable windows a while back and I was surprised with how nice it looked and how much it played like a full fledged map. I guess there's no such thing as half-assing for sock. If he's gonna make something, even a test map, then it's gonna be damn good. 
Test Maps 

Test Maps
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* start_test - Round brick hub map with portals in all directions (SimonOC)
* ad_test1 - Breakables, new ambush surprises and monster reactions (SimonOC)
* ad_test2 - Egyptain blast from the past hanuted by Wraiths (SimonOC)
* ad_test3 - Hipnotic rotation; cogs, wheels and medieval fans! (MFX)
* ad_test4 - Small medieval courtyard with statues and Golems (SimonOC)
* ad_test5 - Large village square guarded by Minotaurs (SimonOC)
* ad_test6 - Tall medieval courtyard full of knights and ogres (SimonOC)
* ad_test7 - Multi level library full of teleporting skull wizards (SimonOC)
* ad_test8 - Giant runic room occupied by gaunts and droles (EricW)
* ad_test9 - Dark medieval chamber guarded by hammer ogres (EricW)
* ad_test10 - Plasma gun carnage in a giant brushwork box! (SimonOC)
* ad_test11 - Shooting range to test all projectile weapons (SimonOC)
* ad_test12 - Does not exist!!! or does it! ...
 
 
Test3 is my favorite. Test7 made for some great coop once on vacation. 
Continuing Discussion From Another Thread... 
I got curious, Cocerello, if you don't mind me asking: What degree are studying in the university? 
Esrael 
Technical Engineering in Industrial Product Design. The real name is a weird one chosen to sound more important but it is hard to translate so you'll have to deal with the previous name they used.

To summarize, we plan all the stages of creation of a new product line, be it a pen or a car, from planning the providers, to the production line, sales strategy and of course the product line's strategy and each unit's design. We don't replace the people in those departments but work as a nexus between them, and provide the guidelines to make the details together with their help.

Surprisingly most of it works of what i am studying should work for level or videogame design. Have to make a map based on that some time. 
Interesting 
So you guys would often be project managers or something? Was your first degree also in engineering?

I did my degree on road engineering four years ago. So far I haven't really thought about going back to full-time studying. Back then, studying kinda just felt like the necessary evil you have to do before getting to "do something actually useful" and getting to work. Not a very good attitude, I know.

My current job isn't very close to what I studied, but kinda touches on it. We're in charge of procuring maintenance contracts for street and park maintenance. What I mostly do is assist the other procurement personnel by providing them with data from the street and park database. I'm quite interested in databases and geospatial information. 
 
I'm an Industrial Engineer myself. I deal with similar things to what Cocerello mentioned though I more so do process improvements than design from scratch. Lots of robots :) Couldn't agree more about aspects of process flow being helpful for level design flow.

Also coding and robots. Some of our robots suck in that they have very little customization to the program which is one reason I like coding in so many options to entities. 
Anon Posters 
I'm thinking about not replying to anonymous posts any longer. Not the troll-y ones either, I mean the posts from ppl who are too lazy to make an account and login.

I like to know who I am helping and discussing things with. 
@LAVA CROFT 
https://discord.gg/AH5Nrc

Sorry for the kick, should have just edited your post, didn't realise it was hard to reverse in discord. 
Yeah 
Process flow and design methodology would work well for level design, even though i fear it would need to be changed a bit if we want to allow the art part of a videogame to stay strong, but as far as i know no high budget title has used anything like that, or am I wrong?

So you guys would often be project managers or something?

Project designers more than managers, but yeah, many that come out of that faculty end up in project or company management. 
 
It is natural to fear engagement with a superior being. 
 
:qthink: 
What Are Some Good (classic) Doom Communities? 
I'm looking for something like func. Fans with some game designers/enthusiasts that are quite aware of the shortcomings of the game and engine mixed in. Germany-centric would be fine.

And who here would identify with the above? 
Doomworld 
only doomworld 
Thanks! 
 
Jam Idea 
So we were just shooting the shit in Discord, talking about how Quake was actually straight-up genuinely scary to some of us when playing it back in 1996.

Obviously it's not scary now - but is it possible for Quake to be scary again in 2018, to those same players, without any custom progs?

So let me suggest Scary Jam:

Create a genuinely scary quake experience, i.e. actually try to scare the player, using id1 progs only.

Worth doing?

Caveat - this was just an idea I had - I can't personally enter or even manage the Jam because I'm too busy with other shit right now, but I thought this was a compelling enough idea to just float. 
Sorta Halloween Jam? 
Quite a good idea and yeah it was pretty creepy back in the day. 
Kinda 
I didn't want to say Halloween Jam because that could place an undesirable time restraint on it (unless everyone literally started it now I guess lol)

But it's kinda around that time I guess :} 
@kinn 
Great idea! I am almost ready to release a "quality of life" progs that would be a good candidate for this king of Jam. I know more than one mapper who is trying to up the fear factor and do more horry-themed maps. 
 
Just wanted to say good theme. I also found that the game was sometimes scary when first playing, first because some of the enemies were dangerous enough that i feared facing them (I remember hiding from Shamblers in Azure Agony), and second because the strobe lighting and dark corners and twisty layouts meant that sometimes you would get surprised by an enemy's sudden appearance (a fiend that you didn't expect and didn't hear because the alert sound was lost in the chaos).

The last custom level I played that captured any of that was Hell in a Can, or maybe some of the levels from Zerstorer. Though, they were different than the original levels that were scary kind of by random chance, because these custom levels were actively trying to set up scary scenarios. 
 
Once again, it's all about episode 4, which features all the aspects of Quake that people fondly remember the game by when they reminisce but hated when they first played it.

Also: keyboard only! 
Absolutely Love The Theme 
it'll be a real challenge to make Quake scary again. I think it gets so difficult once you've seen behind the curtain, to the point where you know how the enemies and environments work.

Even worse, for many of us, we know how the levels themselves are put together, or even the exact code the determines the AI behaviour.

So yeah, doing something unexpected that cuts through that wall of predictability will be a really interesting challenge. Might have to give it a go. ID1 progs is definitely the right way to go too, it's nice to have constraints. 
Cool 
Also maybe limit it to "only id textures" as well? Could be really interesting to stick to the same art that id had to use. 
 
means no-one would be tempted to make spoooooky textures, which i think would be missing the point. 
 
Once again, it's all about episode 4, which features all the aspects of Quake that people fondly remember the game by when they reminisce but hated when they first played it.

A tough truth to accept, but a truth nonetheless. Bravo, negke. 
Great Jam Idea 
Tricky to pull off, agreed, but could make for some very special maps.
Hope it happens! 
Re:#30572 
Create a genuinely scary quake experience, i.e. actually try to scare the player, using id1 progs only.

Hopefully this week, I'll be releasing a devkit that strives to maintain the id1 aesthetic but adds quality of life features for mappers including the ability to add models and sounds. I was making this for myself in order to do a "scarier" map project anyway - so I thought I'd chime in here. I think you can make something creepy with id1 progs only - it's just very hard to do without custom sounds at the very least. Add to this that many mappers are using hacks to get around id1 anyway. 
 
Plus 1 for quality-of-mapperlife-progs or qomp or whatever you want to call it.

Some of my favorite maps were in e4. E4m4 is probably the scariest with all its dark corners and fiends. 
E4M4 
The dark dungeon pathway with fiends in the shadows and the guillotine at the end still terrifies me. 
 
Hell in a Can and Ruined Nation are two damn really scary Quake maps. 
Need Some Opinions 
re: mods and version numbers. I will be releasing a devkit mod called progs_dump later this week. This is not a mod like Quoth or AD that mappers will release maps for. Instead, it's designed for mappers to create their own mods. I would like to include the version number in the folder name as there will undoubtedly be multiple fixes and additions to the devkit. There's a chance this mod will be re-written as I learn more QuakeC. So each release should be a stand alone release, not something you'd want to overwrite.

Keeping this in mind, what's better for version 1.0.0

progs_dump_100

progs_dump100


or

progs_dump

I am not a fan of the latter because I want version numbers to be very clear for the reason above.

I welcome your opinions! I just can't decide. 
I Think First One Is Better 
Second one makes it look like dump and 100 are "syllables" within a name, not name + version. 
 
learn git.

people can then either fork your git repo (and easily pull your changes and send patches upstream), or they can use your progs.dat file with their map packs using their own gamedir. There isn't really any practical scope for your own directory name that doesn't also defeat your stated goal.

fteqcc-specific
#pragma copyright "Some Boring Message"
#pragma flag enable embedsrc
Then anyone that opens your .dat with fteqccgui will see that message and be presented with your original source (or they can open it with 7zip or whatever for the source, but no message).
You can also pass the output of external commands in as preprocessor macros, which is a very good idea for eg 'git describe', and can make much of the version tracking automatic.

Additionally you're not limited to just underscores. hypens and dots are commonly used in directory names too.
quake -game progs_dump-1.0.0
Just be sure to avoid leading hyphens or dots. :) 
@spike 
Thanks, all good info. Yeah git is high on the to-learn list. I decided early on to hold off but a future version will be available.

Embed sources is pretty cool! 
Carry The One 
D.o.t.s. like progs_dump_1.0.0
Or undersquires like progs_dump_v1_00

Just please don't make version 1.0.9 go to version 1.0.10. That doesn't make mathematical sense to go back down a bunch of versions. Should be 1.1.0 at that point.

Also you could start with 001 as a version. 
*ahem* *adjusts Monocle* 
Version strings aren't floating-point number though. They are a series of numbers separated by dots... x.y.z, where x is major version, y is minor, z is "patch" (or something similar). It's fine and good for example for 1.9 to be followed by 1.10, if that's a minor version increase and not a major release.

/end software developer pedantry 
I Agree With Johnny Actually 
I did research it here based on how Tb2 is released: https://semver.org/ Although I doubt this will get that many patches but who knows?

Since I am a total newb feel free to share other organizational tips. I am all ears! Thanks guys. 
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