it seems to me like cinematics are the only problem for including coop. Coop gameplay doesn't have to be supported (not like you have to have extra monsters or items for coop or something), but it's pretty easy to *allow* players to play sp with more than 1 player, and maybe code in an option that makes monsters respawn once or something to make it harder. Another potential option that'd be easy to implement is players spawning further into the level after passing certain checkpoints (like 5 minutes work). I like coop, personally.

On dm, I think that's more the mapper's decision. If mappers don't mind trying to make maps that'll play well in DM as well as SP, then great - especially if there's new weapons. 

You start in Neh2m6.bsp and work your way backwards through the levels to Forge City

are you joking or serious? 

Yes, I'm serious ... As I'm already fine-tuning the neh2m6.bsp code for Nehrev and have played it dozens of times, I think it's quite fun. Fun would be the point.

Now if you're asking if this is something that should be taken serious to the same magnitude as a full map-pack release, probably not. Same maps. Different situations.

It should be taken as something fun you can download (with little to no downloading time) and burn some time with :>

If I get ambitious, I might hardcode in an in-level cutscene or two :D Might even throw a little story into it :> 

((I have no doubt there will be interest from players to play it ... that's the silly thing :> ))
I'm curious, how many players, in a rough estimate, would that be, and if you are looking also to update Nehahra how many players would an independent Nehahra pak (like say a Megawad) attract? 

it was a well done pak. 

Actually it's a very debatable subject. I had a good feel for what the Quake scene was like 3-4 years ago. Now, not so. I can only really speculate. I can tell you that I *still* get a fair amount of Nehahra email. I can tell you that's easy to see that the Quake 1 community still lives, while the Quake 2 community is dying an appropriately stinky death ... if Doom 3 has decent deathmatch, Quake 3 might soon become a memory ...

Hell, the old Doom community is more alive than the Q2 one.

That's because: a classic never dies :D

On the heels of Nehahra, I can tell you there were more than a dozen good mappers who I could have gotten on the Obscurus bandwagon.

By the time Obscurus is ready for mappers, there's really no telling what the situation will be (assuming of course that what I have to show the prospective mappers rocks :>) ... What I'm capable of doing on my end isn't an issue. I'm five times, I dare say even ten times, more proficient at this stuff than I was during Nehahra ((let's face it ... during Nehahra, I was a fledgling modder ... but, hey, Nehahra wasn't so bad for a first go, huh?)) The question is: no matter what awesome stuff I have to offer, will it be enough at that point?

There's a chance it might not be. It depends, depends, depends ... on a lot of things. I'm prepared for any possibility.

It's a wait and see thing. 

it was a fine, albeit flawed, piece of work. Both in terms of quantity and quality. I thought the nomonsters cvar was excellent, lets those who like playing with the advanced AI do their thing, and the other can play it in the classic fashion.

I dont think you really need to tinker with nehahra anymore though Mindcrime, just let it be. It's fine enough as is. 

The thing that amazes me with the Doom community is the number of really good large projects -- 32 map megawads that have been made for it. Nehahra is the closest we have to that sort of thing in the Quake scene, and I believe it is one of the few entity sets for Quake that would be sufficiently balanced to sustain interesting play over a large number of maps if it is done with the right approach to game play. In other words, the basic set of monsters and weapons in Quake is an inherent limitation on the viability of any pak that uses it.

I guess you have to weigh a lot of these factors when you design Obscurus whether or not Say's Law is applicable (if you build it, they will come) in your particular situation when you have mappers biting at the chomp to be involved, but then, there has not been as much post Nehahra fallow up modding as you may have anticipated despite the potential there. 

I'm no mapper but I'm sure it's more easier and less time consuming to make a 32 map wad for doom and a 32 level pak for quake. 

making a doom wad is about 1/10 as long as making a quake map.

that's a generalisation, of course, but it's what i have observed.

ne1_q2dm took about 2 weeks to make during my comp class whereas last year i was able to make a doom map of comparable quality in about 8 hours.

i'm sure this has to do with the relative amount of detail in a doom map. usually, you're only concerned with actual geometry, then textures, then maybe lighting (making fancy shadows and what not) and only working in 2 dimensions simplifies things a lot. 

In general, that is true. You can make a playable map in DoomCad for Doom quicker than you can in similar circumstances for Quake. However, for the game play element, the time factor of developing the ideas that propel a level are pretty much the same.

Take Hell Revealed for instance. The typical map is designed so your route choices are open ended -- except for the monster placement factor where the areas and the pick ups in the areas are weighed dramatically differently. The player is forced to think strategically about his route and pick off the weaker monsters and gradually escalate who he is willing to go up against after that. It probably takes a greater deal of time to plan a layout like this than it does for your generally conceived Quake map.

This sort of game play is easier to produce in my opinion with the Nehahra balance of monsters and weapons than it is for unmodified Quake. 

Go Software Engine, it's what Jesus would want. :) 

Jesus's computer can probably do rt t&l in software at 200fps. 

Jesus don't need a 'puter as he can view the entire world in his head RT no problem (at infinite fps).
:) 

God doesn't have a head 

same thing, we are all one 

I should have mentioned this earlier, but if you are looking for a coder who can correct the camera problems; I would recommend Anthony of Dead on Que for the job. He is profecient with camming and media related code pertaining to Quake. 

I just got my PC upgraded, so I can play that nifty new Painkiller demo! And I'm on AOL by the way, but I'm not giving out my address (really tired of all the spam)... 

 

jesusHchrist@aol.com, by any chance? 

I'm not going to say -- but here is my webpage: http://members.aol.com/jesus316/ 

I actually posted that stuff above, but have nothing to do with that website. Just happened upon it -- so don't go mailing that guy (who may or may not be The Real Deal) and talking about the Painkiller demo. I don't want to deal with the bad juju it might generate ;) 

Whatever happened to this? 

It faded into Obscurusity.

Guffaw. 

seems like it.

i might email mindcrime.