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If anyone actually were to get "hounded off of this board" for a Quake opinion then I would guess that their delivery was the issue.

We're talking about a video game here. Among the possible controversial opinions you'll deal with in life, the actual content of the most extreme Quake-maps-related opinion is a bee fart in a hurricane.

I mean someone can walk in here and say "hey I think hi-res normal mapped textures are pretty cool in Quake" and they are going to get their nose whacked with a newspaper a little, but "hounded off the board"? What does that even mean? Maybe if you lead with something like "anyone who doesn't agree with me is a fascist sheeple" and then double down and escalate when that goes poorly.

Anon posting has been some of the worst stuff on this board. If you don't feel like you can shitpost under your normal handle, how about: don't shitpost. I don't think that preventing anon posting will help though, because then the dedicated shitposters will just create character accounts. 
 
I don't think that preventing anon posting will help though, because then the dedicated shitposters will just create character accounts.

Rubbish, they won't be bothered to go through all that.

Anyway, as we were saying, I think people are being really hard on Trump. If you don't want your kids to be caged, don't try to break into my country bitch. 
 
shitpost on main or gtfo, tbh. 
 
RECURSIVE ERROR:
Error 1: Can't connect to database.
Error 2: SQL error 2002 on line 126 of _user.php.
This problem usually goes away if you refresh the page (but feel free to tell metlslime about the specific error you just got, since I'm curious about why this happens.
 
 
thanks for the report, this seems to be an occasional issue where the database connection fails. 
 
Something that would be nice someday is allowing "\" characters. They tend to disappear after preview and you end up telling someone to run cquakeyourengine.exe 
 
What are the chances you change your mind about https and hashed passwords? 
 
HTTPS is out of my control since sleepwalkr hosts me. Hashed passwords are a viable thing I just need to implement them. 
Fixes To The Preview Function 
I fixed the problem of backslashes \\ getting swallowed by the preview feature, and also fixed the bug where if you put </textarea> in your post you can cause text to appear outside of the form when you preview it. (as reported by CZG about 100 years ago) 
The Latest News Thread 
(the one about the Discord channel)is not showing for me on the forum page but it does on the front (news) page. Is it only me? 
Cocerello: 
The news page is sorted by when the thread was created, the forum page is sorted by threads with the most recent comments. 
Oh ,ok 
I know that but never saw that thread on the forum page, so i assumed it was never there. Checked the other news threads and their last messages are from later. 
Well Now. 
 
 
How come IP addresses no longer show? I have other people posting in my name. 
 
many discussions about it:

http://www.celephais.net/board/search.php?q=%22ip+address%22

The general consensus is that it doesn't prevent abuse. And other people believe it is a privacy issue.

I see you haven't logged in since last year, is there a problem with your account? There is a known issue where password recovery doesn't work. 
Metl. 
As per the Quake 2018 thread, please please can we have a "Mark As Unsuitable" option (as an alternative to "Mark As Spam") which would hide the post but not block the IP. I think it would also be a more suitable censorship of non-spam unsuitable / abusive posts. 
 
yeah, I'll come up with something like you describe. 
Metl. 
 
done 
Feature Request 
A checkbox in the account options to enfore Preview when clicking on Submit the first time. 
Addendum To Negke's Feature 
Require preview before anon posting 
What Good Would That Do 
 
 
Would probably break all the spambots for a bit lol 
Can You Just Ban/block Spy? 
We're tired of his shit. It's not funny, it's not clever, he's overstayed his welcome, just bring the fucking hammer down now please. 
No Header Update This Year? 
 
 
it's been a busy time for me. maybe next year i'll finally get around to automating it. 
What About Another Moderator 
Sometimes there are long periods where nobody is around to approve news, block spam posts, or deface thread titles.

How about SleepwalkR? 
Yup. 
Just about to post a request for this. 
But 
Who else will tell me how fascinating my content is? 
No-one On Here That's For Sure. 
 
AFAIK 
literally the only defence of anon-posting that comes up is "oh but we will miss out on some great, valid anon posts, which have occasionally historically been made I'll have you know *snort* *snert* now where did I leave my anorak...".

To be honest, given the signal-to-noise ratio of these, plus the fact that everyone is on discord anyway now, the amount of cool and awesome anon posts we'll miss will be approximately equal to the square root of fuck all. 
Or... 
just add an option to hide your username when posting next to Preview or Submit. 
 
Seriously 
Mod approval on discussion threads please. 
 
I am up for adding more moderators to get better coverage.

Also kinn, sorry but i guess i need to flag #2304 since it has a bunch of urls to escort services. 
Not Exactly Volunteering... 
But if you needed someone to cover Pacific Standard Time West Coast, I've visited func daily since 2015. Happy to contribute but fine if you'd prefer other mods. 
Since My Name Came Up 
I'm already busy not moderating the TrenchBroom discord, so I don't think I have any time left to not moderate func! 
 
I think the most applicable is dumptruck. Not many other americans are on here(not lurking) as often as him and i. 
Where Would I Ask A Question About Quake C ? 
The question i asked earlier was moved to "GA" and then deleted
My question regards the animation frames shown after firing, when reloading or cocking.
Thanks 
@kaisersozeh 
I think you are playing with a mod, because quake doesn't have reloading or cocking weapons 
 
hi kaisersozeh, thanks for asking.

Your question about weapon animations could go in Modelling Help or Coding Help. I think it's probably more Coding Help becuase you want to use existing animation frames with new functionality. 
@Metl 
For the love of god can you please get one of your func_minions to spend 5 minutes make modding help and coding help into sticky threads, it would be, errr, helpful for people with specific questions that way. 
Metl. I Need Some Site Help Re: Above. 
 
 
Right, thanks for reminding me 
I Meant The Post Directly Above Mine Mostly ;) 
 
Ban Spy? 
It's long overdue. 
Hahahaha 
 
 
It would be nice to remove the spam replies from the new replies counter in the forum index. This way we won't end up opening old threads just to find a "2 posts not shown on this page because they were spam" message.

A way to implement it would be to check the new replies from newest to oldest, and eliminate the "new replies" indicator if all of them are spam. 
 
mankrip, I agree. Right now the way it works is, each user x thread has a "last seen postnum", and then that gets compared to the "last postnum" for that thread, and the difference is the number of new posts. It's efficient but relies on cached data. To extend this system I could update last post num every time spam is flagged, which would at least eliminate the case you describe (all new posts are spam.) But the count could be wrong.

Last fall i spent some time writing new SQL queries that dynamically counted new posts excluding spam. It has some other nice features like ignoring posts from before you registered your account. The only issue with it is the performance -- 200ms vs. 0.7ms for the old query. Which is why they haven't gone live yet. 
Motion To Ban Spy Please. 
And stop anon posting outside GA. 
 
"Site Help" should also have anon posting enabled. 
Anon Posting Use Cases: 
99% To stir up shit and abuse people.
1% To say something worthwhile.

Yeah let's all pander to the 1%.

Glad you chaps aren't politicians! 
Also, Times Change 
When func was literally the only place to have quality interaction with quality quake people, the rules could be a bit more slack, because really, where else could you go?

Now, func has been squeezed to near irrelevance by two discord channels - #TF for the anything-goes matey banter and jovial pisstaking, and #QM for serious mapping chat.

Previously, func fulfilled both these roles, but now it really has no use beyond giving a voice to the very small number of people who for whatever reason aren't on discord, and also for the occasional map release post or event announcement (both of which are usually just cross-posted from discord anyway).

So, the spam and shitposting is starting to dominate here, in the absence of quality posting, and therefore I think we probably need to be a little more moderated. 
To Be Fair. 
#TF is also for serious mapping chat with some great discussions about the subject and various mapping help / promotion sub-forums.

Other than that, yes cleaning up anon stuff here would help. 
 
So, the spam and shitposting is starting to dominate here, in the absence of quality posting

Is not the issue this, the lack of normal posting, more than the spam from anons? Right now, outside of releases most posting is about people falling for trolls (both anons and users) or advertising them about what they do on Discord than on actual spam or much less anon or worthwhile posting.
Apart that there has been more trolling from users than from anons, both before and after non-IP posting was allowed.

Due to Discord and its popularity in general i doubt we will regain back posting to levels of years ago same as how Discord and Facebook has taken users from many websites and forums, but we could recover a good chunk of users if we discuss the actual issue instead of blaming anons. How many discussions do we need about this? We had some already in this year for nothing. 
 
Anon shitposting is used to fan the flames of arguments between normal posters, prolonging nasty arguments between normal posters (e.g. you can see that the latest mfx/otp beef has been embellished and enhanced with some strategically applied anonery, giving the whole thing more oxygen.)

The other use for anon posting is spam.

The actual, valid anon posts that are not shitposts or spam are so rare that I don't think there can be any defence of the anon posting feature. It has been suggested by myself and others that perhaps allowing anon posting only in GA would quarantine the problem to that one thread, whilst also preserving an outlet for the 0.000001% of anon posting cases where an anon who is not a spammer or a shitposter has to post something really important otherwise the world will literally explode or whatever.

I'm not trying to make func suddenly incredibly active again, that's for a totally different discussion and it's not the purpose of this idea -I'm just saying here's a really simple way to improve the signal-to-noise ratio.

#TF is also for serious mapping chat with some great discussions about the subject and various mapping help / promotion sub-forums.

Yes I agree shums, sorry if it looked like I was saying otherwise. 
And 
I am saying that the problem is on the signal, there is not enough, and the discussion about improving the place is getting distracted with a part of the noise.

On the noise, while i think the otp/mfx thing was done mainly between them, there was more than enough support to it through members to not blame its continuity on anons, even less counting that there was at least two decent anons, from memory, on that part. More importantly, the ball is always on our side for falling to not follow the basic Internet rule of not feed the troll, be it anon or not. 
 
Cocerello, is there a significant benefit of anon posting that needs to be protected?

It's true that we _could_ worry about human nature and training everyone around here to be better internet citizens. While that's going on, can we also just disable anon posting? 
 
Exactly.

I try not to spend too much time thinking about grand long-term projects to evolve func into a popular, vibrant forum where everyone is nice to each other, living in harmony with the anon spammers and shitposters who for some reason are still allowed to post.

I prefer just to point out what I call "simple no-brainers" that would probably take a very small amount of time/work to fix and would have an obvious positive effect. 
Cocerello 
Fuck that noise. Anon posting needs to go. 
 
It is about putting the food where the mouth is, while what i said could sound like what you both say, it is not going in that direction. Not openly supporting ourselves member flaming and trolling would do wonders, no need to educate people or even be nice.

@Johnny Law, i could return it to you in the same way. Is anon posting so bad that it needs to be the first priority for making the site better? Focusing on anon is wasting the time.

Using Kinn's example on otp/mfx: that was around 60 posts, and even if i count the deleted posts, it is less than 10 anon posts, and we need to count there was a few posts by good anons. So, where was the reason that it lasted so long? On a few anon posts or on the other few dozens of posts supporting/trolling/flaming on it? And most cases here are the same. Anon posting is a very small part of the site

There was people with more good reasons for leaving anon posting like it is on previous discussions, so i will not copy them. 
Why Not Copy Them? 
I'd like to debunk all of them again. 
 
There is one and only one valid reason for anonery. You're posting from a different PC or device and you don't have your login details.

But in reality this accounts for such a miniscule % of anon posts, that it's ludicrous to let in all the spam and shitposting just to pander to this one case. Besides, allowing anons in GA only would solve the problem where you don't have your login but have to say something REALLY IMPORTANT LIVES ARE AT STAKE OH MY GOD. 
... 
Or perhaps the one thread where we allow anons should be the beef thread. That would stop GA from just becoming the focal point of all the drivel, whilst having no real impact on the beef thread - it's already a pretty spicy thread. 
Yeah 
Rename the beef thread "Beef / Drunk / Anonymous". Stop anon posting in all but this one. Sticky it, move on, and everyone can ignore it at their leisure.

...

and make it so spy can only post in that one. 
IAWTP ^^^ 
 
#2346 
I do not see what that will change, if previous times this discussion popped-up none was able to do that. It will be a waste of time, like all the previous save the first. 
 
I think anon spam (e.g. ads for Delhi escorts) is a UX issue. We have a system to flag the posts, moderators get to it fairly quickly, but right now the flagged posts are not fully invisible to users. E.g. the "new x" count still includes them.

Shitposting seems to not be limited to anons -- I feel like I see more flamey, or spammy, stuff from registered users. Are you guys saying that these registered users are provoked by anons and wouldn't do it otherwise?

Probably the solution to registered shitposting is clearer guidelines and moderator tools to flag bad posts (i mean, we can flag them as spam right now, but might be better to have some clear guidelines to back up why we are flagging them.)

I could also imagine automatic temp bans for people or IP addresses that post too much of if any of their recent posts get flagged, this would automatically lift after X hours. 
But There Really Is No Benefit To Anon Posting, Is There? 
Sow hole I agree it won‘t solve the problem of shitposting and flaming entirely, it would help and there‘s no reason not to do it. 
Metl. 
I'd vastly prefer it if there was a system to stop the spam posts before they even appear. Like not allowing them (anon posts) at all. 
 
I know people say that it's easy to make an account, but there are a lot of messageboards where I didn't consider that worth it to register just to post one reply on a thread that I found from a google search, so I didn't post whatever bit of info I might have been able to offer that community.

Even boards where I lurk I often don't bother making an account, I don't want to have to keep track of another login/password for another site that might not be that important in my life. For a long time i didn't post on I3D because of that. I finally made an account, after a year or two. 
Well.... 
...the latest amount of posts, ummm... 
 
anyway, seems like a pretty unanimous voice telling me people don't think it's worth all this spam just to let some people post anonymously, so I will look into restricting anonymous posts, maybe to a few threads like suggested above.

However, i did some database queries tonight to get real numbers about the problem, just for future reference:

Out of 2874 total posts from january 1 2019 to today:
230 anonymous spam posts
415 anonymous non-spam posts
97 registered user spam posts
2132 registered user non-spam posts

This means:
70% of all spam posts come from anons (30% from registered users)
16% of all non-spam posts comes from anons (84% from registered users)

36% of all posts from anons are spam posts (64% are not spam)
4% of all posts from registered users are spam posts (96% are not spam)
11% of all posts are spam

So, by blocking anons, we would reduce spam by 70%, and reduce regular activity by 16% -- assuming those people don't create accounts as a result of this change. Some of them probably will.

Also: spam accounts are a thing.

There are 1508 registered users, 80 of them are spammer accounts, or 5%. These are accounts that have been manually flagged by me due to their posting activity being all spam. When I flag them it bans them from posting and they disappear from the "people" page. Problem solved.

But there are also accounts that have never posted and never logged in again, but have a URL. Some of these are probably spam URLs. There are about 200 of these. I don't have a good system for dealing with these because I don't notice them unless I really dig. They also don't annoy users that much so, not as big a problem. 
Not A Unanimous Voice 
Well, I've just been silently following the conversation, and I'm in favour of anon posting, due to my history at func.

Of course, it's easy for me to say, since I don't have to moderate the spam, but I started posting here through anon posting, and when I realized I have more here to say than just one or two initial posts, I decided to register. I don't know if I would've registered if it weren't for anon posting, which certainly lowered the bar to register eventually.

So I'm a living example of a (probably rare) case that I think was mentioned during the conversation at one point. So make what you will of that. 
And About Discord 
I think that may be one of the reasons I haven't joined the Discord channels either.

Well, the primary reason probably is, because I don't really like online real-time discussion that much, like chats, let alone via voice. I prefer forum-like discussion, where it's less hectic and you have more time to think about what you write.

But the other reason, which is more related to the current topic, is that there's not a public viewing possibility, let alone posting possibility, in the Discord channels without signing up first. 
 
415 anonymous non-spam posts

Can we get a statistic saying how many of those 415 were actually useful posts, and how many were inflammatory shitposts from a handful of people with a long-time grudge against func? 
Is Not Unanimous 
you can check in the previous discussions about this topic.

Simply the people in favor have long grown tired of it, turned into lurkers or have been kicked out by the toxic atmosphere.

@onetruepurple That depends on the point of view of each: for example the people that are stoned because not adhering to the current beliefs of the loud parts of Func are being seen by many as spammers or trolls. 
How About ... 
going back to publish the IP but let non registered still post? We had not even half the complainers about anon back then. 
 
for example the people that are stoned because not adhering to the current beliefs of the loud parts of Func are being seen by many as spammers or trolls.

Examples? 
Good Point. 
"Can we get a statistic saying how many of those 415 were actually useful posts, and how many were inflammatory shitposts from a handful of people with a long-time grudge against func? "

And yeah, one might argue that there are some inflammatory shitposts from registered users - 95% of which are from spy of course - BUT as discussed before, registered beefers are accountable and can have their posts put into context, anon trolls can't.

So the stats say that removing anon posting will remove 70% of the spam. Great. Do it. Will be refreshing to come onto func, see some new posts, and not have to mark the whole fucking lot as spam. 
Cool Ideas 
going back to publish the IP but let non registered still post? We had not even half the complainers about anon back then.

I like that idea but only as long as we also post their social security number, bank account details, home address, and mother's maiden name alongside the ip address too.

Oh, and also as long we block EU accounts from being able to use func, because if you display ip addresses you will fall foul of the new EU internet privacy laws. We don't want some eurotrash bureaucrat shutting this precious site down.

Then again, if we still allow spam and non-registered, then we might be able to keep the activity going despite the loss of our EU friends. We'll never have to listen to shambler again, so there is that? Pros and cons my friend.

Simply the people in favor have long grown tired of it, turned into lurkers or have been kicked out by the toxic atmosphere.

Toxic atmosphere? What's wrong you fucking manlet, did some anon poster trigger you? 
#2365 
Fuck you. Go away forever. 
#2365 
wow, that was inspired. 
#2365 
There you go metl. The true value of ""non-spam"" anon posters. 
What's The Point Of Accounts Anyway? 
Delete all accounts and make it anon only website. 
No Problem 
With tronald dump anon post above. It made a point or two. But yeah limit those to beef, etc.

But coming to the site and wasting clicks on anon spam is a drag when it can be remedied.

As far as registered spam accounts. Would be great to at least stop any of those moving forward with some kind of captcha or validation thing. Quakewiki.org has a simple system for posting there. Seems to work but gets less traffic.

All I can say is at some point this place turned a corner and it needs some steering... or whatever. 
Lol 
I have to say, this anongate stuff, if anything, has breathed a bit of life back into func...

...maybe we should keep it as-is, to keep the beef sizzling ;}

j/k - I think metlslime's stats show a pretty clear case for banning anons just to wipe out 70% of spam. 
.... 
 
Motion To Ban OTP Please. 
and make it so spy can only post in that one.

lol, yeah just make it happen 
Metl. 
PLEASE disable anon posting. The spam bumps are really tedious. 
Agreed 
or capcha - or something 
No Capcha 
We should not make it more tedious for actual members to post, but we should make it very difficult for spammers. 
 
Add an extra text field with a friendly name to the form. Hide it using css for humans. If it has data as part of post request, it was an automated spam. Won't eliminate all of it, but should work often enough. 
 
wow almost 200 spam posts in less than a couple hours all in one thread?

With the second batch containing the title "Stay Vigilant"?

it definitely couldnt be spam from one of the loudest proponents for removing anon posts. thatd just be crazy! 
#2378 
Congratulations on misreading "Site Help" as "Beef Thread".

And no, it wasn't me. I was busy talking to Terry Cavanagh about the (trigger warning just for you) job!!! (sorry if the sight of this word offends you) I'm doing for his upcoming game, would be rather hard to do that and also keep spamming posts.

Thanks for the consideration though, I'm glad that my arguing against anonymous posting gets recognition in such high circles. 
 
oh wow some classic func_xenophobia. classic. keep up the great work! 
 
Is there such a thing as autoxenophobia?

On topic though - hidden field helps with a huge chunk of bots. If this board is not written in Perl I can contribute a patch. 
Haha 
The Solution to Your Situation 
Is This A Real Kinn 
The Solution to Your Situation - A special sermon from Benny Hinn


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWQuDadurZM 
 
FYI: I am working on a code change to restrict posting by anons to only permanent threads. 
 
 
At the very least allow it in release threads too please 
No 
Get fucked. 
 
FYI: I am working on a code change to restrict posting by anons

Excellent move...

to only permanent threads.

...ah. Hmmm...would it not be better to restrict it to just a single "anonymous bullshit and beef" thread - that way we wouldn't see 99 anon thread bumps in the Mapping Help thread by *cough* not spy at all *cough cough* 
To Be Fair 
I also would prefer if anon posting was restricted to just GA.

(thanks metl, btw!) 
Tbh 
i'd agree with kinn here then.
need to be free from anon morons on the rest of the func tbh (except beef crap).
kinda tired of exhumed posts of old that move new ones below.... 
Then GA Becomes The Beef Thread 
I also would prefer if anon posting was restricted to just GA.

Then GA just becomes the beef thread.

I wanted to add at this point a link to a youtube clip of Angry Frank's (from Harry Enfield and Chums) famous catchphrase, but it seems the internet hasn't quite caught up yet with the classics. To wit:

Is that what you want? 'cos that's what'll 'appen! 
Let It Become Beef Then. 
It will make an excellent argument for pulling the plug on anon posts entirely. 
TBH 
I don't mind GA becoming the new beef thread. 
Thanks Metl 
Really useful at this time. Please, definitely restrict it only to GA or Beef thread, even news threads have become swamped recently. 
I Agree With Restricting Anon Post To One Single Special Thread 
Other than that, thank you metl for taking the time and implementing this at all! 
Agreed 
Thanks metl. 
The Change Is Live Now. 
Anonymous users cannot create threads, and can only post in "permanent" threads. 
Thanks Metl 
 
Thank You Metl 
 
Thank You! 
 
Next Step Of War 
now the're registered users that spam and registered today (4th july):

http://celephais.net/board/view_user.php?name=anuzlato

i wonder if we can block them somehow for ever

post #2676 in Mark V - Release 1.00 
So. 
I'm away from Func for several days. Metl restricts anon posting. I come back to multple threads with new posts. And there is only one single spam post instead of dozens.

:qthonk: :qthonk: :qthonk:

Ggwp metl! 
Omg Shums Back 
Yeah it's almost freaky. Good stuff metl. :ok_hand:

But....who's this joker? http://www.celephais.net/board/view_user.php?name=anonymous%20user 
Good Stuff Metl 
I lurk quite a bit nowadays but it has been a pain the arse to open up threads with 15 spam posts (for example in the mark_v thread). 
Metl 
Can we have anons off permanent threads too please. 
 
doing the spammer's work for them now? :) 
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