|Posted by metlslime on 2002/12/23 18:27:46|
|This is the place to post screenshots of your upcoming masterpiece and get criticism, or just have people implore you to finish it. You should also use this thread to post beta versions of your maps.
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[[[CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A NEW PASSWORD FOR THIS AS THIS ONE IS UTTERLY FUCKING ANNOYING]]]
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Loving Those Textures Lunaran
I Like Everything About It
Ionous and I were just talking about this the other day.
(But: With a floor this wide and open it's maybe worth considering a new variant of the texture with less contrast and repetition, maybe the honey ones?)
very nice btw
It looks great...BUT...break up that god damn floor and use a different texture entirely
63 people on Facebook in 12 hours think you are pretty. Also, several people now are waiting for a new map from you.
<- Func Heart Emoji
i guess that floor texture is shit, isn't it
It's good as a wall texture in small doses
. But there's a reason why id used wmet4_8 for floors instead.
How about a wooden floor instead?
Keep hoping for a follow up to lunsp1! Is this still the one you were talking about a ways back where the plan is for the map to go downwards? Either way, looks very good and please continue to work on it, or turn it into a speedmap, or something.
Lunaran, More Pictures Please !
That last picture gave me a total erection.
More picts !
Interesting. Definitely have potential.
#15507 God Damn
yeah! Love it! The unfiltered card/sprite look for trees has (perhaps weirdly) always appealed to me.
These ones from Daggerfall are some of my favourites:
That's gotta be some pimped out modern Daggerfall port, right? Because if the game looked like that originally, bloody hell did I miss out...
Actually just looking at the # of trees drawn at once obviously it's a modern port.
Those Trees Look Nice And Fluffy Pritchard, Good Stuff.j
The grass could use a few darker shades towards the bottom of the tufts.
yeah it's the Daggerfall port in the Unity engine. Well worth downloading and having a wander round. Gameplay-wise it's pretty "dated" but has it's moments.
that's pretty cool!
I came to Elder Scrolls pretty late with Oblivion on Ps3 so this is great for folks like me.
A New Map - Work In Progress - Early Screen
First off, Pritchard those tree sprites look awesome.
So after the craziness of a Disney map is over, I'm going back to something darker and more Quake/medieval in style. After just playing the excellent Return to Castle Wolfenstein (2001), I absolutely loved the castles, crypts and brick textures. I've started converting the RTCW textures over to the Quake palette and currently have a new texture set with nearly 100 textures including some modified Sock/Hexen2/Magna textures.
Here is a really early screen of the new RTCW textures in action. I've made some groined vaults, as the set actually has custom textures for these vaults. The architecture is mostly styled directly after RTCW but is different in scale so I had to chop up the textures a bit.
To my knowledge not many RTCW textures are in Quake WADS, as I've not seen these bricks and trim and colours before. I love the Quake palette so that's why I'm converting them over, rather than use true colour, but obviously I've lost a good deal of fidelity as a result.
Anyways, the map is planned to be a mod with new enemies, and as such is still a ways off... Cheers!
Damn Nice Textures Son.
There is a WAD file with all the textures from RtCW on Quaddicted. If you like the, it will save you from all the work you are doing.
Liking those shots, very atmospheric, man.
not sure if this help, but the screens are too dark for my tastes
otherwise this is incredible 5/5
It just figures this would be the case, I never saw the RTCW wad there in that mass of wads. Anyways I'm pretty much done converting the textures over anyway. Yeah the screens are really dark, mostly because coloured lighting sucks.
I've maxed out my phone's brightness and still can't see anything on those screenshots besides a faint light in the ceiling.
Have you increased the gamma brightness in the engine, and are using low brightness in the map's lights to compensate?
Embrace The Dark!
Yeah, I always have gamma/brightness set to 0. Its just a dark room with only dark orange and dark blue coloured lights, cause its dark. DARK! My monitor is set at low brightness as well, and its still very visible on my end, but I usually go about adding white light sources to the map later on to brighten things up. I also just threw those lights in to take a screen, the map isn't anywhere nears complete.
Also yeah I can't see anything on my tablet either so I think I bigger screen makes a difference.
I played RTCW recently. Need to finish it though. I had the same idea you are doing now. using those amazing textures for a Quake level. I won't have time for many months to do something so I am very excited to see your work on this!
The screens look promising!
fiddle with the colors of the coloured lights and they will never suck.
For the darkness, they are a bit dark but i think that is almost spot on for the first.
I can't see anything on my tablet either so I think I bigger screen makes a difference.
Yeah, I'm on my 40 inch TV right now and can see it. Still too dark to analyze the texture quality, though.
Not going to post this elsewhere, as it's very unfinished, but here's a fullbright screenshot
There are dozens of other textures that I've been creating with the same level of quality, maybe hundreds. Still some more hundreds to go.
However, I get easily demotivated when trying to actually create maps. Anyway, maybe someday this will become something...
Then Make Shorter Ones
it will help with motivation
Coce Dropping Wisdom Bombs Like I Drop Post-curry Shits.
Serious business. Listen to him.
Well, the maps I'm creating are headed towards environment art rather than gameplay, since their purpose is to showcase the renderer's abilities. In the end I'll merge all of them in a single map, if there's enough memory.
Probably the main creative block I'm having is that textures are self-contained. All the ones I'm creating are photosourced, so they only require artistic sensibility, not artistic creativity, while mapping is a more open-ended task and therefore does actually require creativity.
It's easy for me to create photosourced textures, no matter how depressed I'm feeling. Mapping is a lot harder, not just to envision pleasant environments but also to make them fun. It seems to require a pleasant & playful state of mind.
My current approach is to create textures, try to figure out good matches between them, and to create structural pieces out of those matches (walls, columns, ceilings, etc).
Trying to figure out good matches between those structural pieces and creating good environmental structures out of them is exponentially harder. But it should eventually happen.
Didn't Know You Had The Copyright To Them
Shambler, how much for the rights?
I think the secret is to light it to let the player see everything, but still trick it into looking like deep darkness. Like night scenes in the movies that are shot on broad daylight with a black background. Maybe high contrast with dark colored lights would do the trick.
This kind of "old mansion" set is one of my favorites. Loving this one.
Hey! This Is A Screenshot Thread.
More Sexy Quake Screenshots! Give us an erection, dammit!
Simple And Cubi
I'm trying to make map with Trenchbroom 2.0 instead JACK and Radiant.
Nice One DOOMer!
I feel doom stricken already, Keep it up!
Classic style. Nice lighting.
Very Dark But Promising.
I too like the style.
Thanks for feedback, guys.
I did not work on the lighting at all, just placed the light sources through approximately equal distance between them. Even intensity of not drive the money changers.
Now I hasn't decided to make light in old school or more modern. But in General, the map will be most likely simple by design, doom-like geometry (without a large vertical gameplay).
congrats looking like you are taking to TB2 nicely.
Thanks for your TB2-tutorials, it very helpful for me.
You do some awesome Model work.
The only thing I'm not too fond of in that last ogre is the Silver metalic looking "Q" sign. It's a bit distracting. Your other models in your 1.6 pack are great too.
I recently discovered linear attenuation + fading and some better sunlight shaders :D
Great stuff, looks faithful to the '98 era.
I'm relieved to finally have the lighting figured out for the most part...
Looks Very 'unreal'
Good work, best retro modern shooter to date?
That's A Tall Order
reserve your judgement until after you play it :D
Nice Screenshot Killpixel!
Spiffy lighting in that one.
It's really coming together! GG
@mjb & Dumptruck
Any Playtesters For A Base Map?
Would anybody be interested in beta testing a small/medium base map? It's called the Subterrestrial Hangar picture
, and is planned to be the first map in a series of maybe four maps.
The idea in all of the maps is that in the beginning you choose a path each with its own playstyle. In this
picture you can see that this map has three paths: one involving Quad running, the middle one a "vanilla" path with no powerups and the last path about navigating a slime maze (probably a path everyone's gonna hate, but hey, if you don't like mazes, don't play that path!). ;)
So what I'd like you to do is give feedback on the gameplay: difficulty, balance, and above all, whether it's fun. :) I'd be interested in hearing any suggestions on how to improve the experience. A particular combat encounter of interest for me would be this
I'd like you to test each of the paths on all difficulty levels from easy to nightmare.
The vanilla and quad paths each contain three secrets, the third of which I anticipate is going to be quite tough to crack. Can YOU figure them out? ;) Should I provide more hints for the elusive third secret?
I've tested the map mostly on Quakespasm, but a little bit on Mark V GLQuake and WinQuake modes, too. The map is a mod (due to some custom decorative models), so unpack the zip
onto the root of your Quake folder. It will unpack a mod folder called sthangar, so start the mod by typing "game sthangar" on your console and then type "map sthangar" to test the map. (Just giving detailed instructions like these in case of the unlikely scenario of a person with less experience with custom content happening to stumble upon this post.)
Looking Good, Killpixel
Quite a bit of work you've managed to pull off! You've made those monsters yourself from scratch? They remind me quite a bit of Doom2's revenants. Where'd you get the textures?
Nice shots man, not sure when I'd find time for testing but I like the nice bright lighting especially in the 2nd. The multiple path choice does sound interesting as well!
Thanks, I drew the textures ;)
Thought About Making Bank On Your Game?
You've certainly got quite the knack for art, I give you that! *o*
Got enough material on your hands already that you could showcase your game on a Kickstarter campaign, or something? ;)
We have to help him make cool maps first :D
@Esreal - Hangar Demos
I uploaded a zip with some demos and a txt with my thoughts and ruminations.
Neat little base map. Cheers.
HD Textured Skies
Still got to implement save/load routines for these.
That's simply beautiful. Looking forward to your release one day.
What size is your texture?
The texture in those shots and in the video is 8 times larger (128 * 8). But I've also tested with a 2x texture, and it looks good enough in full HD, even when zoomed in.
I'll upload that texture later, but it's basically the original texture with 2x Gaussian blur and a 2x sharpening filter, done in the GIMP.
Beta Version 2 Of Subterrestrial Hangar
I'd like to give a huge thank you to Redfield, who provided me with valuable feedback on the first beta version of my map.
Based on his feedback, I've made some changes and uploaded another version for you guys to playtest, if you like!
If you are interested, i've recorded a playthrough of the beta 2 here:
I played the first beta, so i already knew what to do and where to go :P
What i still think it's strange (in middle route) is that you can completely miss a whole area of the map if you don't come back to that closed door at the stairs. Maybe if you put a key there to open the door to the slipgate you give the player a reason to search the map and explore that area ;)
Of course I'm interested; clicked the link pretty much immediately once I saw it.
Hmm, the more I think about your idea, the more appealing it becomes. Perhaps I will add a keycard to that area in the final version. Thanks for the good idea!
There's one thing I've been wondering based on your playthrough and Redfield's feedback. When playing the Quad damage route, did either of you notice the message popup informing that the quad damage has been respawned? Because when I watched your video, you didn't go back to the beginning to get a new Quad damage. Maybe you hadn't noticed the message or since you were already killing grunts and enforcers you were too busy to go back to the beginning?
Redfield had also told me on his feedback that the quad route is kind of brutal, so he suggested that I add another weapon early in the Quad damage path. So I was thinking that if I were to add a weapon to the path, maybe I could add an NG to the slipgate room storage shelf. Redfield, when you tested the 2nd beta, did you notice the message of the quad damage respawning? Because with that you could easily crush the opposition pouring down from the barracks room. Do you still think the path should get another early weapon even with the respawning quad damage?
If you guys didn't notice the quad damage respawn message, should I add more reminders to the player about the event?
To be honest i only saw that message when i was editing the video to post on youtube XD
When i was playing i didn't see it, maybe because i was running around, shooting enemies and trying to stay alive =D
But i don't think a "respawning quad" is necessary here. only one is enough for me. but would be cool if you give me a double-shotgun before i enter the slipgate room. quad + double-shotgun = too much fun! =D
opinions on Qoole editor pls?
My Opinion On Qoole:
well Qoole when it came out. But TB2 is a great option if you are coming back to Quake mapping or just starting out.
I learned on Qoole and loved it. Years later Trenchbroom came out and I can recommend it hands down.
The one BIG problem with Qoole is the brushes look fine in the editor but there is a rounding error in the save file which causes misaligned brushes and leaks. If Trenchbroom did not exist and Qoole's errors were fixed though, that would be the one I would have used.
Qoole was the first editor that I hit a groove with after trying Worldcraft and not initially liking it. I ran into that same rounding / accuracy issue and abandoned it when a bunch of Qmap people said it was a known issue and not to use Qoole because of it.
There was something about it that *was* very user friendly to beginners, moreso than Worldcraft and Radiant.
Even in spite of that bug, a lot of people managed to put out some cool stuff with it. IIRC, a bunch of Aardappel's early maps were made in Qoole.
"BETA" of BLUE ep, feel free to fool around in these maps. It is packed like a mod, create folder called BLUE, open editor, type to console game BLUE, and start the new game. I haven't been touching this for a while, but I want to finish this soon.
Link to zip:
I Have Played Earlier Versions
And that was a fantastic retro-ish adventure! NH uses "blue" to great extents here.
I'll Second This
Played an older version too and looking forward to playing this whole beta.
Beta Version 3 Of Subterrestrial Hangar
Thanks to Tribal's and Redfield's valuable feedback, I've made some more changes to the Subterrestrial Hangar:
-Major overhaul for Quad damage path: Quad damage is now permanent and high tier monsters appear later on.
-Silver key added to middle path
I've uploaded the 3rd beta version on Quaketastic for playtesting for people who are interested:
What Do You Think Of My First Quake Map?
I am a long-time Doom mapper and decided to try my hand at Quake mapping. I have just completed my first Quake map and could really use some feedback. What do you think?
You need to post some screenshots!
Nice Archwork! Wood And Stone
Looks pretty good
seen great screenshot of a giant runic sword somewhere here, was it from the upcoming dm4jam DLC expasion pack?
That must be sock's upcoming standalone release inspired by dm4/dm4jam?
Runic Pork Sword More Like
Interesting experiment. Feels a bit anti-climatic, though. As if the level was only the introduction to something bigger, like an episode of path-defined levels.
Classic style - except for the props of course. They look just a little bit out of place in a Quake environment, or least next to the idbase textures. Not a big problem really. I found that the doors, while being useful for making the small base appear larger, can be slightly confusing as it's unclear which ones open and which ones are simply detail. You could maybe change the textures of the doors that never open, or add some detail to suggest they are permenently locked, or at the very least centerprint triggers.
No problems with gameplay really, even though for a moment it felt like I broke it when picking the middle path. Got through it fine eventually. Quad path, too. Not sure why anyone would want to pick the slime maze, though. It's a bit awkward with all the pipes one gets stuck on. You can see how to get past them, but it sometimes feels unnecessarily finicky to actually do it. The path is doable, though you can just as easily fail. Not much fun really, and no real benefit apart from skipping combat (e.g. no reward weapon if you dive up in the hangar itself). Quad is permanent while the suit isn't?
On a technical note, the map exceeds the edicts and the models limit as QS reports on developer mode. I believe this is something that can be fixed with little effort. In the slime maze part, each pipe is an individual func_wall which is completely unnecessary. All of them can be grouped into a single entity per corridor. Even better yet, if you use ericw's compilers, you can just turn them into func_detail_wall and save a large number of models while getting the same result (phonged pipes).
Likewise, the blankets on the bunk beds, which are all individual func_illusionaries by the looks of it, can be grouped into two big func_illusionaries (one for each side of the room= left and right of the door), or simply func_detail_illusionary.
And if these two measures aren't enough, there's another big potential for saving models in the monster teleporter room. The trigger_teleports there can all be turned into point entities and they won't count as individual models.
Doing all of that will also lower the edicts count, though I'm not sure if it's enough to get it under 600 (in practice should be lower than, say, 570). But I can look into that if required.
Thanks for the feedback, negke! I tried to download the demos, but the link was broken for me. o:
Yup, the level is to be the first in an episode of such levels, as you suspected. That's why there's a red armor in a tougher secret late in the level and is intended to be used mostly in the subsequent levels.
Yeah, I was wondering if the decorative doors would cause confusion, whether they will open later on or not. Maybe I'll add some large bars that make it obvious that they will never open or something... :/
Yeah, the slime maze... The idea behind the dense piping is to keep the maze challenging even for subsequent playthroughs, when the player has already learned the correct path. After all, it's supposed to be HARD difficulty. There are considerably fewer pipes in the lower difficulty levels, if the pipes are too much. But of course, making the maze hard in the expense of fun isn't quite right, so I just may have to decrease the amount of pipes for the hard difficulty. And btw, the slime maze DOES contribute to some other rewards besides just avoiding combat. c;
I also appreciate the technical feedback you give. I could give your suggestions a shot. Maybe they might help with the map's abysmal performance in Mark V.
Forgot About The Biosuits
The biosuits were made respawnable instead of permanent to keep the player on his/her toes. Gotta keep the feeling of urgency and the adrenaline flow going, you know! ;)
Demo Link Fixed
Detailed video showing most of Retroquad's scrolling sky rendering features
I'm finally satisfied with it.
Bloody beautiful, but the wooden archs could use less polygons.
Also, there's a piece of a wooden beam brush appearing on the inside of the top of the window on the right.
insane. I've never seen any sky in Quake look that beautiful, including sky maps! GG
I Don't Think The Arches Need Less Polygons
sky looks very cool, interesting seeing all the options
My First Quake Map "Ruins Of Mazotac"
Is This A Beta Or A Final Release??
A beta. There are a few known bugs I need to fix, and I also wanted some gameplay feedback. Is this the wrong spot for me to post?
Nope It's Correct.
Nope That's Cool Man.
Shots look nice, hope you get some good feedback.
Nice Shots Mclogenog
Congrats on the beta release!
Why Can't I Hold All These First Maps!
Yet another "My first map" post!
Took a map from an old doom2 dm wad of mine and remade it. Probably not the best dm map, but it served as a place to get used to working with TB.
Small map, 1v1 should be hectic, 2-4 would be bonkers.
From The Shots
needs more verticality. something bout the colors is slightly off (palette issues maybe). Looks quite good otherwise, detailing looks weirdly good and sufficiently undetailed in those shots.
I mean the mixture of textures. I find it quite hard to have good color scheme when choosing textures in quake myself :-( Something about the limited choice of base textures.
Nice map for your first outing! Some thoughts:
1. good use of textures overall
2. good idea to choose DM as your first Quake map to work out the process of creating... the Quake SP community is much more active than MP for the most part. I switched from making only MP maps to SP and it's better overall as many more ppl play my maps. Something to consider. func is really geared toward SP maps
3. your lighting is quit good for an old school style map. I encourage you to look at ericw's tools website to see what can be done now with lighting. (I am currently working on lighting tutorials.
4. I really liked the small touches in your map. The uneven walls and floors, the door mysteriously cracked open in the other area. The warped woods planks were cool and I am stealing that idea!!!
These all give your map life.
5. some of the areas felt a bit the same though so easy to get turned around. You can vary lighting and / or textures to give players signposts. The player should never be lost in a level.
6. congrats on a very nice looking level
7. keep mapping for Quake! you are off to a very good start.
bonus question: are there leaks? is this map vis'd? I only ask because I had a weird framerate issue here and there. It could be my computer tho.
I posted this on YT but here's a repost:
I am working on videos this weekend. Would you mind if I did a "newb review" of your video as you mentioned? It may not be out for a while but I like this idea and of course will start with yours!
Thank you both for the comments and suggestions, really appreciate it. :D
Coming from mapping for doom, I still a have bit more to get used to with quake hence the map is a bit more horz than vert. I kinda ran out of ideas at the time so yeah its a bit “where am I?”, as well as high and low detail all over.
As for the vis and leaks, I compiled in TB with ericw tools 0.18 and everything appeared to be ok, unless I missed something. It never complained about leaks in the log after the last compile so /shrug?
Hehe, I can’t even check it atm since my rig of out of commission until monday when the replacement for the new psu I got thursday comes in.
I'll play it again today on my gaming rig. I wanted to be sure you had vis'd it. The compile is likely fine.
I just played a DM session with Reaper bots. I added 4 - twas a bit hectic. But the framerate is fine. When I tested it before I was at work on an iMac so crappy Intel grfx. It's smooth as butter on my gaming rig.
I just played a DM session with Reaper bots. I added 4 - twas a bit hectic. But the framerate is fine. When I tested it before I was at work on an iMac so crappy Intel grfx. It's smooth as butter on my gaming rig.
I just played a DM session with Reaper bots. I added 4 - twas a bit hectic. But the framerate is fine. When I tested it before I was at work on an iMac so crappy Intel grfx. It's smooth as butter on my gaming rig.
I just played a DM session with Reaper bots. I added 4 - twas a bit hectic. But the framerate is fine. When I tested it before I was at work on an iMac so crappy Intel grfx. It's smooth as butter on my gaming rig.
Is this possibly func_record?
Must Be A New Record
2008 was a rough year for mobile internet.
In 2008 I still had 56k dial-up.
I still had a Pentium II.
Yearly Update 8-)
A year ago I showed this
of a basemap I has been working on for around 14 years.
are some more pics of the map, or rather the maps, because since them I have split the map in 3.
I also wrote that maybe it would be done in about 5 or 6 years 8-)
Well it looks like I was right, since I hawen't had much time to work on the map.
Another reason is that I have promised Tronyn to finish this
The Promise Shall Not Be Broken.
It would be a crime to not finish/release these.
I recorded two runs with your map (Short Yardage) using DMSP2 (skill 2: 80 enemies).
The central area is great to make enemies fight each other while you watch everything from above =D
I believe in you!
I don't know if you are interested, but i recorded a playthrough of your map "Chapel of Darkness" =D
Between Tribal and I - your map is getting a lot of attention!!! Here's a new series of more general Quake-y type of stuff. A newb mapper review this time.
Preview Of Castle Darkheart Interior...
So I posted a TB block out of the castle exterior on Discord earlier, but I've been working on a new texture set, and have done some work in Blender to get a new prop model.
This gallery has 2 shots of the interior of Castle Darkheart. The new texture set is based upon photo textures, taken from images of cathedrals and other materials, all converted to the Quake palette. I've also been using a lot of RTCW, ad_magna, and Daikatana textures as a base to make new ones. (The banner is a fabric sample with Daik dragon, painted in brown.)
So I used Blender to import the knight.mdc from RTCW, converted to OBJ then to .mdl. It had a lot of problems, inverted face normals, and some of the vertexes had to be edited. I also had to create a new UV map and material because the .mdc consits of multiple models and 2 textures, where Quake mdls can only have 1. The end result is ok I think, 509 polys. Now we can finally have a suit of armor to decorate all those Quake castles.
Imgur seems to darken my images, so take that into account. Screens here:
Nice work. This is really looking cool but still Quake-y.
That looks great! Maybe add a little more visual detail, for example some damage to the pillars or something. Otherwise it looks maybe a bit too clean.
But apart from that it's really nice, I hope it gets released!
Puts my recent castle-building efforts to shame. I'll have to steal some ideas >_>
It is too far over hill for me to not finish it now. @Sleepwalker yeah I plan to go over the map with a sledgehammer and smash some of those brushes to pieces. It looks too nice for Quake monsters to live in.
It just takes a long time to make new artwork (If it wasn't for google Blender would be worthless) I am hoping to have this map/mod done by the end of the year.
This is on my to-do list today. Speedmapping to hit a deadline at the moment.
Here is my playthrough \o/
I love how the rooms are huge, with plenty of space to move and run in combat... but there is almost no combat :P
There's a lot of times that i enter the rooms waiting for a scrag to spit on me or for a grenade to blow up in my head, but nothing happened... there's so much space for epic fights, but there are no enemies to fight. Too many empty rooms, man. I played in hard difficulty and it felt like easy mode :(
Oh, I have to say that i love the green theme with broken walls on the first and second room, with jumping puzzles, pressing buttons and pushing pillars... it reminds me the first tomb raider game =D I wish the whole map was like this =D
Thanks for the playthrough video and feedback! Between this and mazotac, I'm definitely finding I need to add more enemies :|
Andrew! Re: Simplex
Simplex is looking great so far. Some thoughts after the link to my 4 demos. I had a long day between yard work and Speedmapping 182! So my playthru is terrible but I have some notes embedded in the demos. I'd suggest using Mark V to view them because it has FF and Rewind! You'll need them with my demos:
okay some thoughts:
*Yeah you def need more enemies but not a LOT more IMO. I like quiet moments but currently there are too many. Also, you need quality encounters as opposed to the quantity. So for example: You have no fiends in your maps but a lot of loooooong hallways. Fiends are designed for long hallways. Throw a few in your next beta in strategic areas. They do get stuck on stairs and in small corridors but you have a lot of areas where fiends can introduce tension and OMG moments.
* You need some Vore / Shalraths in this. They are great with areas where you have a lot of cover. And your map has a lot of columns - this would be perfect for Vores. They aren't too hard to beat if you know what you are doing so don't be afraid to use them where the player can take cover to avoid. Just make sure the player has enough ammo to deal with them.
*with more monsters you need more ammo and armor. Use your puzzles as places to reward the player. There's one area where I hit the wall with the ax. (Large area with jumping puzzles and water underneath.) That would be a great alcove for armor to reward the player for making the jumps.
I LOVE the jumping puzzles overall. I noted a texture issue in the first demo. When you hit a button the texture should go from animated to non-animated. I got fooled for a second thinking I needed to hit the button again (duh me). I know you are "gaming" the system by looking at the map because the whole thing is a func door. However, you COULD try having the button on the func door have the texture of the "off" position of the switch. (+abutton) Before the player triggers the func_door you could overlap that brush by one unit with a brush with the animated texture on it. You make that a func_wall that will be "killed" using a trigger relay and killtarget.
I copy and pasted an example from your map of this into a test map of mine: https://www.dropbox.com/s/84mc8pimfm57swd/simplex_example.map?dl=0
It's a small thing but small things add up and it's not too hard to do. Quake has a visual language that we have to stick to and this is a good example of something subtle that can confuse a player.
* Think of enemy combos for this map. When to use ranged enemies like the Zombie and Wizards as opposed to Knights who are melee only. try different combos in different situations. Ogres below the player are pretty useless as I noted in the demo. I use Hellknights for those situations.
*The funiculars. I picked off a bunch of enemies from above before activation as you'll see. Trying setting them to the "ambush" spawnflag. They will stay asleep until they see the player or are fired upon. You don't have to fix this in this map but here's some food for thought: After the player activates the funicular maybe delay it for a second and teleport in those monsters so savvy players can't kill them before they are a threat.
Those are plenty of notes. This is going to be a cool map. You have some really unique game play ideas as with your first map!
Thank you for all the feedback! This gives me a lot to work with for the next version :)
Something I've Been Working On
Hey friends, long time lurker- first time poster. I've been learning Trenchbroom thanks to dumptruck_ds' excellent tutorial series. I'm dipping my toes, so here are some screenshots:
I'll have a link for DL once I iron out a few last things. Looking forward to some initial impressions!
The shots look very cool and retro in the best possible way. I'll be play testing the beta upon release!
I can already hear the tink of grenades flying through the bars and the glorious glrrSSCHR-plsch of the zombies gibbing behind, and it is a good sound.
I have a retro-themed vanilla-ish q1sp episode of 5 smallish maps, currently at 'beta 2' stage. Looking for a tester who:
- is really nitpicky
- normally plays on hard skill
- can record demos over multiple maps
First to shout gets an email (obviously let me know address if it isn't in your profile)
Thank you kindly 8)
Can do that, if you need some hard skill demos*
great. I like episode of smallish maps.
Mire Prison Beta
After some feedback, I made some changes but couldn't reupload to Quaketastic, so here's a new link:
It's crazy the sort of stuff you'd miss without the perspective of others. Looking forward to more feedback!
Gave it a playthrough (missed the update though, so hopefully this info is still useful), skill 1. Here's the demo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/u4jkf5kc9av2b1g/jcrmire_beta_Yoder1.zip?dl=1
Some fun stuff and a good scaling difficulty to it!
The biggest problem I ran into, as you'll see in the demo, is that I went to the jail side first and then quickly ran out of ammo. The choice at the start between the water and jail seems equal, but due to the ammo and also the key, it's really the water side I needed to go to first. The distances are short enough that this kind of backtracking isn't a big problem. Hopefully that helps!
I recorded a blind playthrough of your map:
I found a weird bug below the health pack (look at 00:47 in my video) in FTE engine the bug looks like a hom effect, in quakespasm it looks like a grey polygon.
About the gameplay, I have some thoughts...
I felt a little restraint in my moviments, there's not much free space to run and move around, every place seems so tight, mainly the walkways...
I think the final fight would be more awesome if you had released the zombies when the shamblers appeared. The way it is now, you can just kill the shamblers and go to the exit without killing the zombies, they are no threat to the player. And about the zombies in the second floor... there's any way to go up there? Killing them from below is just tedious. There should be a elevator or a platform :P
Oh, and never let the player leave the final arena. I could easily run away and kill the shamblers from the corridor. You should consider locking the door =D
But, for a first map, this is an amazing job. Congratulations! =D
Thanks for the feedback, your playthrough helped me a lot. I actually didn't consider the possibility of completing the map with 100% kills, so I'm making changes to ensure that is possible, as well as fixing all the other bugs and stuff. I'll also try making the secrets a bit more noticeable since many players seem to miss them.
I would try a version with out all the railings. You don't need them for the player BUT if you want them for "show" I get it. And obviously a couple are there as platforms for the player. Just something to think about.
My First Map.
Know after one month of work, after watching dumptrack_ds inspiering tutorials, I wanna show some screenshots of my first map.
Its mainly inspired by the Indy_2 Movie Temple of Doom and has three parts: a greek temple, an indy stile cave and sewers.
This map should be Part 1 of a 3 Level Minigame with some oldschool tributes to classic games, music and movies.
Ready for feedback, critcs or ideas. :)
Add more trim maybe.
Maybe add strange features like spikes or beams to the large flat walls to break it up. Make sure your trellises are func_detail s
Tod1: The suspended platforms look very slim and therfore probably not conducive to Quake's fast pace strafey gameplay. It's hard to tell from the screenshot but I can't see any way to get back up if you fall off (assuming here that the goal is to navigate from the door through the platforms to the other side). Jumping puzzles like this can be pretty frustrating when falling off = a hard reset of the puzzle.
Tod2 : Fuck yeah
Tod 3 : Looks like an arena for a large combat encounter. A bit bland in the center. Maybe a central column or raised area could make the combat here more interesting (assuming it is combat focused).
Tod4 : I'd keep these barrels out of the way of the player. Have them stowed on shelves or around the side of the room so that it won't be such a nightmare to move around in them.
tod_1 - try adding a few more angled brushes to those rock cliffs
tod_2 - looks cool, but the slight lack of symmetry does not sit well with my OCD :D
tod_3 - I'd break the floor up a bit, maybe cut a rectangle 6 or 8 tiles wide (and however long) and lower it by 16 units so you have a sunken section, helps distract from the repetitive tile texture
tod_4 - that wall texture is normally used for floors, looks a bit odd
I like it, reminds me of old maps I used to download from cdrom.com ~18 years ago in a cute, nostalgic way.
Thanks For First Feedback
Thanks for the first feedback!
@Qmaster: Thats a great idea because I'm still fighting with the big spaces and need more live in it.
@DaZ: Yes you're right. I created them in an early stage and tested them to late. I've implemented in my idear of loosen up the gameplay, means shooting, adventure, shooting, jump'n run, shooting. I know that this is totally breaking with the original concept but hoping that it works.
About the way(s) to the goal. :) You have three, at least four with falling down. 1.)Youse an elevator and get into the action. 2.) find a way over the platforms, find weapons and ammunition, clean up the hords. 3.) Use a platform kind of stairway to get down, clean up the enemys one by one and finish.There is also a oldsch. J'n'R way back up and you will need it. (see tod_7) You're right about the frustrating thing and I'm working on keeping it on a minimum.
The barrels will be minimized.
@rj: Yeah the brushes. :) Now that I found out how to break the Noodlimitation I do. The symmetry first was a problem for me to change bacause of the limitations. I try to fix this with lights and shadows. The walltexture.. damm. Haven't recognized. Is changed.
Have added some better Screenshots with lightning.
It's coming along and feels much more cohesive than beta 1. Me being lame on skill 1.
I got got turned around a few times and felt lost more that once but your encounters are way more fun now! I'd say a touch more health in the first two rooms. Don't be afraid to put a couple of arrows in your level to tell the player where to go next.
I really like the look of the level. You have some really striking geometry throughout.
What do the generators do? Is that element still under development? Or did I miss something?
Overall it's really a huge improvement. I might play again and send some more feedback about little texture things. It's the end of a long day.
Those shots are looking pretty epic. I'm intrigued.
Thanks for the demo! The idea with the generators is for them to power up the mechanisms nearby (the tram and platforms). I'll need to do more audio and visual work there to sell that idea though.
Thanks! With your tutorials in mind, maping is real fun! In one or two weeks I should have a first playable version uploaded. I'm curious about your opinion.
That looks unreal. I love arctic themed stuff and that's better than anything that I could've imagined.
Is that a goddamn aurora borealis?
At This Time Of Year?
I made a playthrough of the new version of Simplex \o/
Man, what a great adventure! It's like a totally new and different map! o_O
In this run i couldn't grab the nailgun in the beginning of the map, couldn't take the red armor and neither the supernailgun (i didn't noticed that one side of the cage was open, i must be blind) and i was so frustrated XD (i played the map three times now, so i could find all the secrets and take all the weapons)
One secret that i didn't understand was that door that opens behind the ogre (at 05:00). In my third run i nocliped to see where it leads, and found out that i had to shoot a wall in the corridor to go up there, but how can a player know that? there's no visual hint for me to shoot the wall :/
Anyway, back to the map... the design, the textures, the details, the monster's placement, the gameplay! I love it all!! XD
Congratulations! What a good job you did here =D
@Tribal, thanks for giving it another playthrough! Definitely still some rough edges, especially around secrets and some visual bugs. Maybe by next weekend I'll have it in a spot where I'm ready to call it done :)
@KenChennar, dang that looks cool! I also hope that audio is an in game music track, because it gives the map a totally surreal feeling
Localised Entirely Within Your Kitchen??
Orl, you are insane :) that looks awesome!
I love the look of it and the small platform puzzles. I really liked how the scrags filled that room in the beginning where the nailgun is. I'm sure I missed a bunch of stuff. Here's a demo:
Holy crap that looks awesome!! Quite the reveal. Liked the roots in the cave too.
Hi everybody. I've added some new screenshots of work in progress. Thanks for all your feedback. Have changed the textures where they were wrong and some map logics that had been asked for.
Update 1.01. Missing
Yeah. And still forgot to descibe the last screenshot. There are now three ways to finish. As I told before, it is your choice how to get down. You have to pass each zone, but the order of clean out is yours.
As I told before, it is your choice how to get down
What happens if the player just steps off a platform and falls to the ground?
Poorchop, Spud, Mclogenog, distrans, Qmaster. Thank you for the kind words and expressions of shock. With just some detailing and smoothing out the rough edges left, the map construction itself is pretty much done. Problem now is how to make it fun.
I've come to accept that I can't do Quake gameplay very good as it always ends up being too difficult or disjointed and unfair. And a map with this much space, well it just wouldn't work out at all. Not really sure what to do at this point.
If you fall down, you are in one of three zones wich have to been passed anyway. The only thing that changes is that maybe you wake some monsters to early. :)
Still looks really busy and unclear. I really can't tell what the flow is supposed to be when looking at the screenshots. The one with annotations isn't any more helpful in this regard sadly.
Crate mazes are not fun. Definitely reconsider!
A lot of the structural stuff looks really fiddly to get around, lots of stuff sticking out to snag the player etc.
In Defense Of Crate Mazes
Doom 1: e2m2: Containment Area
In Opposition Of Crate Mazes
Doom has some pieces of far worse level design than people like to remember, i.e. E2M2. Also, this isn't Doom so we have a third dimension to fuck around in.
Thanks for the input. Pleas remember this is my first map. I'm working on it to get it as professional as I can. Some of my solutions now will not be the smartest in the world but they work at this stage of my leveldesign-learning.
Hopefully my first beta will give a better look!
About crate mazes. :) Every Doom, Quake, Jedi Knight, Tomb Raider,... I think every game since Commander Keen has crate mazes. There were so many that I dream of them since when I was a boy. So hopefully some day, somebody will write a "I've no idea how to fill this space in short time so bubbles would be a nice idea."- routine and free our minds from them. But till this day someone will run through crate mazes. :D
I wanna throw in my WOW to you as well. I'm a huge admirer of your previous work, even if I was more forgiving of aspects of oms3's gameplay than some others. I'm sure I will have fun with it when you're finished, however it turns out.
Crate maze? Bring it on! That sort of thing has a nice charm evn if it is a well used trope: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ContainerMaze
How goes the 5 map episode?
You're dam right! Right now I'm creating the passage from zone blue to green with some cave stuff. But it now will have a bigger crate maze thing. Think I have to play some more Doom sessions for inspiration but will become funny. :)
Soon! Had a lot on this past few weeks (as has Newhouse I believe) but it's on the home stretch.
Maybe if I publicise my self-imposed deadline of 28 May on here (ie. right now, in this post) it might spur me on...
28th It Is!
send a couple more screenshots to gain more attention/extrinsic motivation!
One word: Amazing!!
assuming lighting is cranked up to avoid people on func spazzing out?
This looks very cool!
Must Play Blue One Now!
Your game play is spot on bro. Ter Shib was a masterpiece not just in design but also in terms of game play. The environment is a factor in my opinion and you managed to perfectly intertwine it with fights. Shib2 is a great example of this.
From what I remember, my only issue with Ter Shib was being severely ammo starved at some points. However, that was largely because I started from scratch at shib3 after losing my save files upon completion of shib2.
Pushing these old games like Doom and Quake to the limit presents new challenges because enemies weren't designed with these new, more elaborate, and substantially larger spaces in mind. However, you still made it work. Looking forward to your map (and maybe some day expanding on the arctic concept myself since I love the setting and theme).
Shots a tiny bit dark, bot looks really cool, proper quakey :)
Looking forward for your upcomimg release(s)
Well don't keep us waiting much longer! :D
Wow! Looks realy great.
Thank you for the kind words, though I can see the glaring gameplay flaws the maps have. Lack of ammunition and even health isn't fun for some. Even on easy difficulty it is challenging.
This being said, future shib like maps I have planned will be more of the same mostly. Possibly with custom monsters to add variety that might work better with large maps. And the arctic theme isn't the only unique setting for a map I have in mind. And please, feel free to take inspiration from my maps and even the textures for your own project! I'm interested in seeing what you could create.
I'm making a new map and I really would like to get some feedback. It's quite short, and it's a remake of a famous FPS map. Can you guess it before looking at the screenshots?
Here's the link:
Screenshots (they are a bit old, I've added more detail to the map):
Also, it has difficulty settings (normal/hard).
Congrats on the new map. I love your selection of Knave textures and lighting was another standout. Feels evil and Quake-y.
Some thoughts in no particular order:
combat was fun and hectic but maybe could use a few more trigger_counter setups to pace the monster spawning a bit better. Right now it seems a bit random as to when they spawn in. You may want that I dunno.
Your trigger_monsterjumps are awesome good game on that!
I really liked the lava jumping bit. Not too hard but just nerve wracking enough.
I like dark and contrasty maps but others might say this map is too dark. If you get more than 2 or 3 comments on that use the gamma worldspawn key in ericw's tools to increase the gamma of your map slightly. (I just did this with a map on mine.)
slow down the door opening to the exit to make it more obvious to the player that something has happened.
there's a "post" or pillar near the doors in one area I got stuck on. it's dark and almost feels like a mistake. Maybe put a torch on it or thing about removing it.
Link to my demos:
I always play on normal.
Here is my blind playthrough =D
As Dumptruck_ds said, the map is a little bit too dark. I had to mess with the gamma of the video before uploading it to youtube, because i couldn't see a thing :P
But I love the details, the architecture, the textures and the first fight! Man, I love multiple Vores attacking me at once just to use the purple balls to cause monster's infight XD Awesome!
Thank you for the map =D
Thank you for playing and for the demos!
This time I've tried to make a brighter level, so I went to the worldspawn entity and set the light value to 80, therefore there shouldn't be completely black surfaces. I think I'll set it to 100 and raise the skylight value a little.
I'll also make the exit more obvious, since it's different in this map. The initial idea was to trigger the exit (I mean, the intermission screen and the next level) after the last fight, but I couldn't manage to do it. It might require some hacking.
I'm not sure which pillar is the one you pointed out, but I'll try to fix it. I assume it's part of the broken walkway, to which I accidentaly applied a wood texture, so it's pretty hard to see it.
Thanks a lot again, I'm also learning from your videos :)
Thank you very much for the video!
I'll fix the darkness issue. It's supposed to be dark indoors, but not excessively dark.
There are only ogres in the start area on Normal, but then I decided put those vores because I knew you were going to play on Hard :P
thanks for playing.
I'd advise against using the light key in the worldspawn. That raises everything and flattens out your lighting. If you increase the gamma slightly you retain your darkest areas a bit better if I am not mistaken. There are also some other command line settings/worldspawn settings you can tweak to adjust this. e.g. you can experiment with -bounce -bouncescale .4 - .8 - this will really change your lighting so I usually use bounce from the beginning of the lighting process. More info here:
If it was me, I'd increase all the lights by hand in 25 unit increments and see what results you can get. But I like that dramatic high contrast.
Food for thought.
Here's a couple of demos, I died my first try :D Is it supposed to be inspired by dead simple? That's the impression I got. I think the final fight with the 4 shamblers needs work, they kind of just stand there until you engage them. Also more ammo towards the end would be nice. I liked the lava part with the jumping vore, spooked me the first time!
Yup, I noticed the flattening. I'll read the documentation carefully and test it to see if I get better results. Thanks again.
Thanks for the demos and suggestions!
Indeed, it's inspired by Doom 64's Even Simpler, which by itself is based on Dead Simple.
I don't know what happened to your intermission camera, but that's not how it should have looked. By the way, did you find the map too dark?
thanks for playing!
I didn't notice anything wrong with the intermission. I played on the latest Quakespasm if that matters. I don't think brightness was an issue, though you've been given advice on what to check out in that respect.
@jcr , @vaf
That's good to know, thanks!
Court Of Fools, DM Speedmap
Speedmap'd today. Just got back into the Quake scene this year and wanted to crank out a deathmatch map. So I managed to put one together with some interesting shapes and layout. Put in about 8hrs. Only used a few textures, so I tried to creat variety with lighting and such.
Tested with Quakespasm and reaper bots. Will test with a human opponent tomorrow, but wanted to put this up in case anyone else wanted to try it out or provide feedback. Any and all comments are appreciated.
Download ZIP: http://www.quaketastic.com/files/multiplayer/maps/rhoqtdm1.zip
Maybe a bit more contrasted shadows in some corners? Keep the general lighting level but make stronger shadows in places that won´t get that much action.
Noted on the shadows, thank you! I'll try that out.
I did some playtesting this morning [ if interested, here's a video: https://youtu.be/ZtEUILq1GOQ
] and found a few dead spots for gameplay and a few balance issues between ammo and armor. So I'll probably head back into the editor today and clean up a few things.
I recorded two runs with DMSP2 mod on hard difficulty (100 enemies) =D
awesome map, great job =D
Awesome! I don't think I've seen this game mode/mod before. That was very cool to watch. Thanks for playing the map! Much appreciated.
Court Of Fools V2
Updated the map yesterday, rebuilt a couple areas for better navigability, added an another teleporter and another hallway connection between the two main interior spaces. Moved all the DM spawnpoints into lit "closets" in the walls. Tweaked the lighting.
Added ammo and one more weapon.
Reaper Bots are having a way easier time getting around the level, and the flow is much improved. It still basically looks like a speedmap, but I think I'll call this a successful experiment now. I learned quite a bit cranking this one out.
If anybody plays it, let me know what you think.
Court Of Fools V2
I recorded a demo using the same mod that Tribal used.
I think it's a really good map, although it's kinda big. I only dislike the fact that the rocket launcher and the grenade launcher are relatively close, so, by the time you grab the grenade launcher, you already have the rocket launcher in your inventory. Also, it seems to be easy to cut your opponents off rocket based weapons.
I love the textures and the archtecture. Nice!
Thanks for playtesting! I see what you mean about the rocket/grenade proximity. I think I might be able to swap the RL and the SSG (which are not on the same path) and have a similar overall balance.
I've also decided to reduce the cell supply, as we ran into scenario where someone could dominate the map for a good while with one pickup of the Thunderbolt (with cells already collected for it + too much opportunity to get more).
As to the large-feeling scale of the map, that's probably from playing too much ClanArena on QuakeLive, in which a lot of the popular maps make gratuitous use of long sight lines (for the sake of the railgun). On my last playtest, I found several sight lines long enough to see streams of nails/spikes coming at you, which is longer than I intended.
I think for this particular design it's as tight as it's going to get, but I'll try to scale down my next map a bit. I appreciate you commenting on that.
Just watched the demo... that was delightful! Really intense moment when you grab the Mega and just chill there shotgunning the death knights until you can get off the ledge. I need to try out that mod.
Update, Request For Support
Hi guys.Have seen your awsome work meanwhile.
Had some exhausting weeks behind me and hope to did a good job on the map. Leveldesign is now 90% done, Entities and logics I would say 30%. Have some new screenshots for you and a request?
This Level got bigger than I thought. Would someone of you be so auxiliary to check out the map in its nower status? You know that this is a five mans job and at this state of progress the sight for errors is becoming smaler.credits are for sure. best wishes!
is not showing.
The map looks like it is one i am going to enjoy. My advice is that seeing that you have several large brushes, to hide a bit that fact with lighting, by only lighting some parts or make contrasted areas.
The black lines in tod_17, as first i thought they were leak lines from the pointfile but they are curved. What are those? Now they look to me like the typical lines in Windows Paint
Time Quake Ogre
I finally decided to lay my hands again on this one.
Trouble is that now I've got so many poses there are not enough funcs to handle it, only seven th_funcs.
I can combine some but it will be a hussle.
Flies were pretty obvious, but came one dimensional out. Wish I had more qc knowledge so I could add that like in Q2.
Thanks for your comment. Yes the black lines are from paint. Seams I catched the wrong tool at first. :D I've the lighting thing in mind and do so between two area designs. Thanks!
Theme and architecture show some promise, but at the moment it is very samey, very uniform in colour and tone, textures are repetitive and lighting is flat. Try to add some stronger designs, some complementary but different colours / textures, and improve the lighting contrast. Look at Id medieval levels for a very basic start, or some of the more recent medieval levels.
Thanks for the tips. Do you mean with designs the leveldesign itself or to add more and different Objects in the sections?
Structures, overall design, rather than objects.
Its A Hot Day
Cool off with this start to end playthrough of the yet unreleased Galiduse Point. Normal skill, one route taken.
Very cool. Running with the Manke-on-steroids vibe and making most of the 'retro FPSs' look lame as fuck
I've been looking forward to that map ever since you posted the preview clip so I'm pretty stoked over what I saw in the video. The point at which the player comes upon the hill overlooking the town is still awesome. The map is a lot more ominous than I thought it would be. The bunker area combined with the music kind of gives it horror vibes. I kind of didn't want to watch the full video since I wanted to experience it blind after you release it but I ended up watching it anyway. Really looking forward to the release.
A Drake Map In 2018?!?
Why, Is That Impossible Or Something?
...wanders away grumbling like an old man...
@KenChannar: looks dope as expected from what I watched, but I'm waiting to play the whole thing myself.
@Tronyn: go map lol ;)
Ice To See You!
Don't want to to spoil it Ken. Hurry up and release it already!
'Finished' another room in the castle:
Its unfortunate that Snow White and the Huntsman was a very poor film, but you gotta love Charlez in any case. The Raven throne was inspired from this.
This map is screaming for some Hexen2 enemies =D
It has many Hexen2/medieval-style enemies. And then some.
Beta Testers Wanted.
Skill 0 and skill 1 especially. Gimme ur email and I will send the map over.
Looking for feedback from a player's perspective about gameplay balance etc. Not from a mapper's perspective as I know it's technically shoddy and chaotic mapping behind the scenes!
I know there's issues with 2D-ness, simple layout, lack of detail inside etc etc.
Looks old skool Shambler. Raises hand. I dig the simpleness.
And Redfield looks good too. About Drake enemies, why compromise. Use Keep mod and you can have (almost) any enemy.
I Ask You To Unforgive Me?
I like the drake mod, and had a really good time blasting through Unforgiven. Except for those like air strafing dragonoid type beings that seem to have the same code as an F-22 Raptor electronic warfare suite.
I am currently using the AD progs as the base for my mod, cause it has all the nifty tricks, and the potential for some Hexen 2 monsters is in there. The map is mainly supposed to feature my new monsters, although I'm not sure how things are going to pan out yet.
Ooh You Have New Monsters??
Intrigued even more than I already am just from seeing the screenshots.
I am in. Feel free to shoot me an email.
New Q1SP Beta: Amphitheater Of Abaddon
Don't know if many of you are busy playing maps from 2017 for the Quake awards, but if someone happens to find the time to beta test my newest map, that would be great!
The working title of the map is Amphitheater of Abaddon. It is to be the second map in my miniepisode (see here
for more details). The way how the Quad damage works in this map is a little different from the first map, though. In the first map the Quad was permanent but in this one there are multiple normal Quad damages littered over the map (and I was thinking of modifying the first map to work like that, too... maybe).
So, I'd like you to play the map and provide me any feedback that comes on your mind for how to improve the map. It would be preferable if you tested all three of the different playstyles (and, optionally, in multiple difficulty levels).
You can download the map (source included) here
. Just place the map in your id1/maps folder and fire away like a normal custom map. No mods this time around, unlike the first map in the episode. I haven't linked the two maps together yet, so you can't test the two maps in succession.
Note, that there are two versions of the map included in the package: an older version that hasn't been gamma corrected and a gamma corrected version (worldspawn has a "_gamma" key with a value of "1.3"). I think the gamma corrected version is more similar in brightness to the original Quake start map, so it may be the better version of the two. I've just gotten so used to the older version, that I'm not sure which I like better, so if you like, you guys could also give your opinion on which version is better.
To-do list for the map:
- Make the necessary modifications for dm.
- Fix compilation errors caused by the gamma correction (too many lightstyles on a face).
- Add some decorative corpses/gibs.
- Implement possible suggestions from beta testers.
The map started out incredibly strong. The amphitheater is a really cool concept and it looked great. I was impressed with how you maintained the smooth curvature and symmetry of it all. The area under the stage helped to sell the concept as well. I assume that those were dressing rooms that were locked at first.
The first area that you climb up as ogre grenades rain down upon you was such a neat mechanic. I'll never get tired of people using the high ground ogre in unique fashions such as this. Finally unlocking the main amphitheater area was a groundbreaking moment as you are presented with the scale of it as well as the grenade barrage. It was tricky at first but I learned to avoid too much trouble by constantly pushing forward.
I started to become a little disenchanted as I began scaling the audience balconies. Taking the elevator up sometimes put me face to face with an ogre - first a grenade to the face, then chainsawed to death as I had no way of getting past the ogre and no way to go back down. At this point, health and ammo were extremely scarce. I started save scumming in order to make it to the end and even then, it felt too rough. I started to flat out ignore the teleporting scrags and the final vore. On one hand, the final elevator up was interesting with more ogre grenades but if one made it inside the elevator, it was almost impossible to avoid the explosion. The shootable switch that closes the door only helps a tiny bit.
I did feel that the first half of the map was pretty perfect though. The ogre placement was spot on. They were exactly the proper distance to cause just enough trouble without feeling unfair. In the amphitheater, I would give the player a way to jump back down when taking the elevators up. Either that or make it so that the ogres are clear from the space immediately in front of the elevator.
Also please, please, please give ammo. I really don't even mind scarce health but if I don't have the ammo to kill monsters, then that's a huge problem. I never found a grenade launcher either so those basement zombies were just roaming around freely.
I have a demo but I don't think that it recorded much given that I had to reload saves a ton towards the end. I played on skill 2.
The non-gamma corrected version of the map won't load for me in Quakespasm. The version that I played looked fine. I think that the lighting was well done.
Recorded A First Run Quad Demo
pretty rough on me, let me know where to email with demo/discussions
Will hopefully get a chance to play the map later, I made some quick notes on your screenshots https://imgur.com/a/652whG4
Amphitheater Of Abaddon, Beta Version 2
Drew, I sent you an e-mail a moment ago, so you can send your demo to me in the reply message. Thanks in advance for testing! :)
And thank you, Poorchop, for your valuable feedback! Reading it motivates me and makes mapping even more worthwhile. :) Watching your demo was quite thrilling, with all the ammo and health shortages and close calls.
Hmm, I thought I HAD tested the map on the middle path with no secrets found, but I guess I hadn't, because I ran out of ammo, too, now that I tested it myself. @~@
Thanks to your feedback and additional testing, I added 40 shells to the map. Now I was able to end the map with around 40 shells and 20-30 nails (if I recall correctly); no secrets, skill 2, no zombies killed. I was also intentionally somewhat wasteful with my shells to allow some misses.
Of course, if one finds the grenade launcher, ammo becomes a LOT more plentiful after that. And don't forget that this is the second map of the episode, so the player could very well be stocked up with shells, nails and even a grenade launcher from the get-go.
Based on your feedback and some additional testing I've done, I've uploaded beta version 2 of the map:
Changes from beta 1:
- Added 40 shells and 15 health.
- Made a torch illusionary, so the player won't hit their head in it when using an elevator.
- Added a killtarget trigger for some some monsterjump triggers to ease movement of a fiend.
- Prevented ogres from getting right in front of an elevator in the amphitheater.
Sorry, I forgot to reply to your message in my previous post. Thanks for the notes! I had actually thought about the roof indentation, but wasn't sure if it was worth the trouble.
Maybe try out the beta version and then give me an update on the previous notes, whether you think they're still relevant after seeing the map live.
Don't Have Time To Play This
But man those screenshots look great. I'll be keeping tabs on this one!
Here's my second demo of the middle path. Sloppy playing (I actually died a few times before this due to being careless) but I was trying to run through fairly quickly. The ammo situation was good, as was the health. The center path is at a point now where it's challenging but completely fair. My only complaint was the fiend that sneaks out from behind the wall at the top of the first area you climb. I died there on an earlier attempt because I didn't have enough time to react to the wall opening behind me, and fiends hit hard.
It's hard to gauge the difficulty at this point since I mostly remembered what to expect but even then, it was still pretty tough. That's fine though - players who want an easier time can lower the difficulty. I tried a bit of the quad path but I didn't get too far with it yet. I also managed to find the grenade launcher this time and it made the map way easier.
I'll try to check out the right path as well. It's a cool concept to give the players three major variations of playing the same map.
Thanks for testing again, Poorchop! :) Some highlights from your replay:
- Knights ganging up against a vore.
- Finding the GL. Yaay, good job! :)
- Killing with a single grenade three bumbling knights flailing their swords in vain against a shambler.
- Trying to reach the silver key with a trick jump. Believe me, I did my best to make it as difficult as possible! >:D I've been able to get to the dangling beams on the other side but not quite able to find a way to climb to the key itself (if I recall correctly).
- The two final fiends accidentally charging at each other, inadvertently killing the other one in a hilarious slapstick comedy fashion! xD
Too bad you didn't quite figure out the fountain room secret. I was so rooting for you to find it! :'( There's also a secret the location of which will probably become more clear to the player who tries to clear the map following the Quad path.
About the difficulty: Yeah, after watching your first demo and feedback, the idea of suggesting playing the map in normal difficulty did cross my mind. After all, skill 2 is supposed to be HARD difficulty, and the map sure is pretty tough in that difficulty.
Sure, it may be tougher than most id maps at that difficulty, but this map is tough even with modern control schemes. So maybe I should add a disclaimer to the readme that hard really means hard for this map.
I'm wondering about the fiend. Should I have the fiend first make its presence known to the player by aggroing it with a trigger and only after a second long delay, or so, the monster closet would open. Does the ambush feel unfair otherwise? o:
I guess otherwise the middle path starts to look pretty finished. Thanks for your help! :)
Screenshots look good, I'll get you a demo tonight!
Overall I thought it was great, my favorite part was the gold key room with the vores at the bottom. I thought the invisibility ring path was interesting, ring respawn points were chosen well. The final elevator with the ogres raining on you was clever too! Some critique:
The area where the walls lower to reveal death knights was a bit much, I think a lesser enemy or enemy combo would be more interesting. I feel that the death knight is tedious to fight because of their high HP, putting one after another made that area a chore for me.
Entering the Shambler room was instadeath in every way I managed to approach it.
Quad path was boring for me since I didn't find any weapons.
Anyway, here are some demos: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ir5ipxHUNNTvkPGsOI1cyZM8gxOsaT9w
This isn't the first time I've seen your demos but I must say, you're one skilled player! O_O
Wow, that was nerve-racking to watch, and you got so close to the ending, too, and on a blind run to boot! You were on the brink of death there quite a number of times, and in the end being down to just one hp at that one point!
You have a super aggressive playstyle, rushing headlong into the hotzone! Like jumping down to the vores in the gk room, running to the middle of the amphitheater with the shambler, and the most ridiculous of all, juggling yourself along three shamblers to get a yellow armor! O_O
Your strategy of minimizing ammo usage by resorting to the axe from time to time was also interesting to observe. Seeing you pick up a quad damage prematurely was heartbreaking to watch. D': I was also worried seeing you pick up shells, while being almost stocked up already, but it seemed like you had the ammo situation pretty well taken care of.
An interesting point was seeing you being able to get up the elevator at the shambler room, while they were still alive; something that I had intended to make as difficult as possible, so congrats on "breaking" the map at that point. ;D I was kind of wondering, if you had forgotten about the elevator in the long corridor close to the vore. That elevator would have taken you to the second floor a lot more safely than trying to use the elevator in the shambler room.
As with the Subterrestrial Hangar, I wanted to keep the map somewhat challenging even on the quad path, which is why other weapons are hidden and nail boxes have been drastically decreased. A nailgun would be possible to find in a secret early on, though. You did find the first button to unlock the secret.
Nice work there! For some reason I hadn't actually thought about the player going through the shambler room while following the ring path, so using that route certainly made the map even shorter that way. :D
Hmm, you were also caught off-guard by the fiend ambush at the ogre tower climb room, were you not? Do you think I should add an invisible clip wall to prevent the fiend from immediately lunging at you after being aggroed? That would give the player a little more time to react to the fiend.
Really fun to watch! I liked how you just danced and toyed with your enemies in the gold key room. I can see why you liked that room the most.
About the shambler room being instadeath: That's kinda the way it's designed to be. :D It's indended to be either carefully cleared on the quad path by taking potshots from behind the door or then by the crusher button up the elevator. And uuuuuh, after seeing your ring of shadows run, apparently by sneaking past the shamblers altogether! :D
I can see you were prepared for the fiend ambush before the GK room this time. But I'd rather have it be possible for the player to react to it on his/her blind run, so maybe I should add a temporary invisible barrier to add some time to react...
About the tedious death knights: I think this demo demonstrates quite nicely why I went with death knights, because they can still keep harassing the player with their flame attack from down below if the player decides to ignore them altogether. That way the player has two directions to be aware of: both up and down. But yeah, maybe I could drive that point across with fewer death knights too. Maybe have them appear only the first and maybe the second time...
As a bit of trivia, in earlier versions of the GK room, the player could get stuck in the ramp corners really easily. There was discussion on the issue not that long ago, actually, in the Quakespasm thread
. To make the ramps smooth to traverse in that engine, I had the slopes fall one quake unit short of reaching the plateaus and having the player instead climb a step of 1 unit. I did add some illusionary brushes to give the illusion of a perfectly smooth climb, though. </the more you know>
A nice run. It was cool to see the chaos as you mostly just ran past your opposition before reaching the gold key door. It was also interesting to see how you were so bent on trying to get through the shambler room, going so far as to first rush to the lever, then stock up on health and then take the elevator again, but it seems the ogres were less willing to let you keep the health you had gone to accumulate.
Thanks for the insightful and entertaining demos! :) I think I just might decrease the amount of death knights in the ogre tower climb room and allow the player a bit more time to react to the fiend.
Amphitheater Of Abaddon, Beta Version 3
In case somebody would still like to test the map, here
you can download the third beta version of the map. I think, unless I get more feedback, I'd consider the single player portion of the map more or less complete. While waiting for possible feedback I'll work on dm modifications.
Changes from beta 2:
- Replaced two death knights with four knights to lessen tedium.
- Increased the chances of a player to react to a fiend ambush.
- Compiled sunlight2 with 1000 sunsamples to improve sky lighting quality a bit.
Re: Quad Path
The way I see it, the quad path could be an opportunity for a more run&gun approach, where the ring path is the opposite. I think throwing more beefy enemies and weapons along with the quads could make it pretty chaotic. Maybe something borderline horde-ish as a quad path.
sorry but I don't seem to have received the email, or I may have accidentally deleted it or something.
Drew And JCR
Drew, did you check the spam folder in your Gmail? It could have very well ended up in there. o: Look for a message with the title "Your demo on the Amphitheater of Abaddon".
About the run n' gun approach: I think changing the quad path to include beefier monsters and weapons would require a bit too much of an overhaul at this point of development to make the change worth it for me.
Plus, unlike in the Subterretrial Hangar, the premise in this map is to keep the core level more or less the same with the same monsters on each of the paths. Adding additional/beefier monsters for the quad path would break that premise, and in the Subterrestrial hangar I hated having to resort to telefragging monsters that are not encountered in other paths (to make it possible to get 100 % kills at the end of the map).
Speaking of the Subterrestrial Hangar, one can finish the map with an SSG, NG, GL, 100 shells, 130 nails, 25 rockets (and an RA if one finds the toughish secret), and with a little bit of testing I just did, I think the arsenal allows for some nice cathartic quad path action, while still keeping the map somewhat challenging.
So perhaps I COULD add at least an SSG to the quad path without making it too easy...
Here are some screenshots of maps I made for a SP qtest mod
with the early qtest gifs that were published.
This is awesome! =D
I saw the dragon/serpent flying in one of the screenshots... Your mod will feature all the unused models?
just for curiosity's sake i've found this page with three skins for some of the monsters of qtest http://androidarts.com/kawaiik/kawaiik.htm#qtest
Yes, all models that were in the original q1test.
I added the advanced dragons from Patrick Martin,
and my own Serpent and Axe_Ogre.
I'm fiddling a bit how to make the Axe_Ogre pee, laugh and give him flees.
Still in beta, but if you're curious, see the coding thread.
realy thanks for the skinfiles. Vormit already had a skin from the conversion of Dark Mage.
I was forgotten about the androidarts.com.
Looks great!! looking forward to this!
The Quaddamage and the Serpent
Nice Sprite, Kell!
Thanks to the coding of Dr.Shadowborough I overcome this great moment. Looks quiet spectacular, although the demo only works on quakespasm ad standards.
Be aware, it's alife
Nice! Some sound design should help make it a bit more menacing.
Ha, I'm a creep recording Q1.
Mostly I'm interested in the way it is done in the code.
Like the Headcrab in RMQ, I tried to extract it from the src,
but it is so integrated I can't lay my hand on it.
Madfox, are you still going to try to create some chasm monsters?
That looks cool. That pentagram effect was awesome. Is that all original?
@yhe1- I finished the dino, although it's hard to give it the right skin.
I started with straphos
and I must say the examples to work from are rather poor.
@Qmaster- Most of the coding is done by Shadowborgh. I was looking for a statue code and he turned it into this rare scene of turning a static into an entity. It is still a bit kinky and crashes on "trigger in clipping list".
madfox, I will gladly donate if you can create the monster and weapons in quake, since that chasm port appears to have stalled.
I finished the scorpio and the dino, as the static entity of the fans.
For my clear understanding,
you want all weapons and monsters from Chasm in Quake?
That's a pretty large case.
This is what I'v got so far.
Well, I am not demanding anything, but since you are creating new monsters and weapons anyway, why not take inspiration from Chasm?
I know m210 got a lot of donations for Bloodgdx, and Chasm doesn't have a finished port
I know m210 got a lot of donations for Bloodgdx
Explains why all instances of bloodgdx have been nuked from orbit
Nah, that was just m210 trolling everyone
A highly respectable decision. Should donate more money to the cause.
While working on the Stratos model I exceeded the tris/verts limits.
So I left it at that point.
I'd like to develop models, but it always goes as far as I've got fun in doing. I once tried the GlDoom models and that was alright, but these models were already in obj format.
I checked, they are converted in the pak file
That's a better way to start then constructing them myself again. Looking for a way to export them and add poses and skin.
I can import it from a md2 to a mdl model.
Only the skinfile is a bit tricky, as I have to remodel it again. There are a lot of vertices under it, out of the basebox of the model I had to delete.
I'd be curious to see how it mixes with enforcers when you are done.
I have always wondered how difficult it is to fulfill a wish
until I have the know-how to make it work.
I thought all Quake engines nowadays supported md2 files :/
Noesis Can Convert Chasm Models
that zdoom kid doesnt mention it because he know hes violating noesis license by theft
Who cares? Action Forms has been out of business for a long time
another zdoomkid, because he knows how to convert the skinfile
Is the stratos done? maybe an video with him and the enforcer?
It's Starting To Feel Like Quake Can Do ANYTHING...
That looks awesome and I'm stoked about another Arcane map.
Was wondering what happened with that spaceship map.
Can't wait to put my dirty quaker fingers on that thing!
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