|Posted by metlslime on 2002/12/23 18:27:46|
|This is the place to post screenshots of your upcoming masterpiece and get criticism, or just have people implore you to finish it. You should also use this thread to post beta versions of your maps.
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[[[CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A NEW PASSWORD FOR THIS AS THIS ONE IS UTTERLY FUCKING ANNOYING]]]
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Congrats on the new map. I love your selection of Knave textures and lighting was another standout. Feels evil and Quake-y.
Some thoughts in no particular order:
combat was fun and hectic but maybe could use a few more trigger_counter setups to pace the monster spawning a bit better. Right now it seems a bit random as to when they spawn in. You may want that I dunno.
Your trigger_monsterjumps are awesome good game on that!
I really liked the lava jumping bit. Not too hard but just nerve wracking enough.
I like dark and contrasty maps but others might say this map is too dark. If you get more than 2 or 3 comments on that use the gamma worldspawn key in ericw's tools to increase the gamma of your map slightly. (I just did this with a map on mine.)
slow down the door opening to the exit to make it more obvious to the player that something has happened.
there's a "post" or pillar near the doors in one area I got stuck on. it's dark and almost feels like a mistake. Maybe put a torch on it or thing about removing it.
Link to my demos:
I always play on normal.
Here is my blind playthrough =D
As Dumptruck_ds said, the map is a little bit too dark. I had to mess with the gamma of the video before uploading it to youtube, because i couldn't see a thing :P
But I love the details, the architecture, the textures and the first fight! Man, I love multiple Vores attacking me at once just to use the purple balls to cause monster's infight XD Awesome!
Thank you for the map =D
Thank you for playing and for the demos!
This time I've tried to make a brighter level, so I went to the worldspawn entity and set the light value to 80, therefore there shouldn't be completely black surfaces. I think I'll set it to 100 and raise the skylight value a little.
I'll also make the exit more obvious, since it's different in this map. The initial idea was to trigger the exit (I mean, the intermission screen and the next level) after the last fight, but I couldn't manage to do it. It might require some hacking.
I'm not sure which pillar is the one you pointed out, but I'll try to fix it. I assume it's part of the broken walkway, to which I accidentaly applied a wood texture, so it's pretty hard to see it.
Thanks a lot again, I'm also learning from your videos :)
Thank you very much for the video!
I'll fix the darkness issue. It's supposed to be dark indoors, but not excessively dark.
There are only ogres in the start area on Normal, but then I decided put those vores because I knew you were going to play on Hard :P
thanks for playing.
I'd advise against using the light key in the worldspawn. That raises everything and flattens out your lighting. If you increase the gamma slightly you retain your darkest areas a bit better if I am not mistaken. There are also some other command line settings/worldspawn settings you can tweak to adjust this. e.g. you can experiment with -bounce -bouncescale .4 - .8 - this will really change your lighting so I usually use bounce from the beginning of the lighting process. More info here:
If it was me, I'd increase all the lights by hand in 25 unit increments and see what results you can get. But I like that dramatic high contrast.
Food for thought.
Here's a couple of demos, I died my first try :D Is it supposed to be inspired by dead simple? That's the impression I got. I think the final fight with the 4 shamblers needs work, they kind of just stand there until you engage them. Also more ammo towards the end would be nice. I liked the lava part with the jumping vore, spooked me the first time!
Yup, I noticed the flattening. I'll read the documentation carefully and test it to see if I get better results. Thanks again.
Thanks for the demos and suggestions!
Indeed, it's inspired by Doom 64's Even Simpler, which by itself is based on Dead Simple.
I don't know what happened to your intermission camera, but that's not how it should have looked. By the way, did you find the map too dark?
thanks for playing!
I didn't notice anything wrong with the intermission. I played on the latest Quakespasm if that matters. I don't think brightness was an issue, though you've been given advice on what to check out in that respect.
@jcr , @vaf
That's good to know, thanks!
Court Of Fools, DM Speedmap
Speedmap'd today. Just got back into the Quake scene this year and wanted to crank out a deathmatch map. So I managed to put one together with some interesting shapes and layout. Put in about 8hrs. Only used a few textures, so I tried to creat variety with lighting and such.
Tested with Quakespasm and reaper bots. Will test with a human opponent tomorrow, but wanted to put this up in case anyone else wanted to try it out or provide feedback. Any and all comments are appreciated.
Download ZIP: http://www.quaketastic.com/files/multiplayer/maps/rhoqtdm1.zip
Maybe a bit more contrasted shadows in some corners? Keep the general lighting level but make stronger shadows in places that won´t get that much action.
Noted on the shadows, thank you! I'll try that out.
I did some playtesting this morning [ if interested, here's a video: https://youtu.be/ZtEUILq1GOQ
] and found a few dead spots for gameplay and a few balance issues between ammo and armor. So I'll probably head back into the editor today and clean up a few things.
I recorded two runs with DMSP2 mod on hard difficulty (100 enemies) =D
awesome map, great job =D
Awesome! I don't think I've seen this game mode/mod before. That was very cool to watch. Thanks for playing the map! Much appreciated.
Court Of Fools V2
Updated the map yesterday, rebuilt a couple areas for better navigability, added an another teleporter and another hallway connection between the two main interior spaces. Moved all the DM spawnpoints into lit "closets" in the walls. Tweaked the lighting.
Added ammo and one more weapon.
Reaper Bots are having a way easier time getting around the level, and the flow is much improved. It still basically looks like a speedmap, but I think I'll call this a successful experiment now. I learned quite a bit cranking this one out.
If anybody plays it, let me know what you think.
Court Of Fools V2
I recorded a demo using the same mod that Tribal used.
I think it's a really good map, although it's kinda big. I only dislike the fact that the rocket launcher and the grenade launcher are relatively close, so, by the time you grab the grenade launcher, you already have the rocket launcher in your inventory. Also, it seems to be easy to cut your opponents off rocket based weapons.
I love the textures and the archtecture. Nice!
Thanks for playtesting! I see what you mean about the rocket/grenade proximity. I think I might be able to swap the RL and the SSG (which are not on the same path) and have a similar overall balance.
I've also decided to reduce the cell supply, as we ran into scenario where someone could dominate the map for a good while with one pickup of the Thunderbolt (with cells already collected for it + too much opportunity to get more).
As to the large-feeling scale of the map, that's probably from playing too much ClanArena on QuakeLive, in which a lot of the popular maps make gratuitous use of long sight lines (for the sake of the railgun). On my last playtest, I found several sight lines long enough to see streams of nails/spikes coming at you, which is longer than I intended.
I think for this particular design it's as tight as it's going to get, but I'll try to scale down my next map a bit. I appreciate you commenting on that.
Just watched the demo... that was delightful! Really intense moment when you grab the Mega and just chill there shotgunning the death knights until you can get off the ledge. I need to try out that mod.
Update, Request For Support
Hi guys.Have seen your awsome work meanwhile.
Had some exhausting weeks behind me and hope to did a good job on the map. Leveldesign is now 90% done, Entities and logics I would say 30%. Have some new screenshots for you and a request?
This Level got bigger than I thought. Would someone of you be so auxiliary to check out the map in its nower status? You know that this is a five mans job and at this state of progress the sight for errors is becoming smaler.credits are for sure. best wishes!
is not showing.
The map looks like it is one i am going to enjoy. My advice is that seeing that you have several large brushes, to hide a bit that fact with lighting, by only lighting some parts or make contrasted areas.
The black lines in tod_17, as first i thought they were leak lines from the pointfile but they are curved. What are those? Now they look to me like the typical lines in Windows Paint
Time Quake Ogre
I finally decided to lay my hands again on this one.
Trouble is that now I've got so many poses there are not enough funcs to handle it, only seven th_funcs.
I can combine some but it will be a hussle.
Flies were pretty obvious, but came one dimensional out. Wish I had more qc knowledge so I could add that like in Q2.
Thanks for your comment. Yes the black lines are from paint. Seams I catched the wrong tool at first. :D I've the lighting thing in mind and do so between two area designs. Thanks!
Theme and architecture show some promise, but at the moment it is very samey, very uniform in colour and tone, textures are repetitive and lighting is flat. Try to add some stronger designs, some complementary but different colours / textures, and improve the lighting contrast. Look at Id medieval levels for a very basic start, or some of the more recent medieval levels.
Thanks for the tips. Do you mean with designs the leveldesign itself or to add more and different Objects in the sections?
Structures, overall design, rather than objects.
Its A Hot Day
Cool off with this start to end playthrough of the yet unreleased Galiduse Point. Normal skill, one route taken.
Very cool. Running with the Manke-on-steroids vibe and making most of the 'retro FPSs' look lame as fuck
I've been looking forward to that map ever since you posted the preview clip so I'm pretty stoked over what I saw in the video. The point at which the player comes upon the hill overlooking the town is still awesome. The map is a lot more ominous than I thought it would be. The bunker area combined with the music kind of gives it horror vibes. I kind of didn't want to watch the full video since I wanted to experience it blind after you release it but I ended up watching it anyway. Really looking forward to the release.
A Drake Map In 2018?!?
Why, Is That Impossible Or Something?
...wanders away grumbling like an old man...
@KenChannar: looks dope as expected from what I watched, but I'm waiting to play the whole thing myself.
@Tronyn: go map lol ;)
Ice To See You!
Don't want to to spoil it Ken. Hurry up and release it already!
'Finished' another room in the castle:
Its unfortunate that Snow White and the Huntsman was a very poor film, but you gotta love Charlez in any case. The Raven throne was inspired from this.
This map is screaming for some Hexen2 enemies =D
It has many Hexen2/medieval-style enemies. And then some.
Beta Testers Wanted.
Skill 0 and skill 1 especially. Gimme ur email and I will send the map over.
Looking for feedback from a player's perspective about gameplay balance etc. Not from a mapper's perspective as I know it's technically shoddy and chaotic mapping behind the scenes!
I know there's issues with 2D-ness, simple layout, lack of detail inside etc etc.
Looks old skool Shambler. Raises hand. I dig the simpleness.
And Redfield looks good too. About Drake enemies, why compromise. Use Keep mod and you can have (almost) any enemy.
I Ask You To Unforgive Me?
I like the drake mod, and had a really good time blasting through Unforgiven. Except for those like air strafing dragonoid type beings that seem to have the same code as an F-22 Raptor electronic warfare suite.
I am currently using the AD progs as the base for my mod, cause it has all the nifty tricks, and the potential for some Hexen 2 monsters is in there. The map is mainly supposed to feature my new monsters, although I'm not sure how things are going to pan out yet.
Ooh You Have New Monsters??
Intrigued even more than I already am just from seeing the screenshots.
I am in. Feel free to shoot me an email.
New Q1SP Beta: Amphitheater Of Abaddon
Don't know if many of you are busy playing maps from 2017 for the Quake awards, but if someone happens to find the time to beta test my newest map, that would be great!
The working title of the map is Amphitheater of Abaddon. It is to be the second map in my miniepisode (see here
for more details). The way how the Quad damage works in this map is a little different from the first map, though. In the first map the Quad was permanent but in this one there are multiple normal Quad damages littered over the map (and I was thinking of modifying the first map to work like that, too... maybe).
So, I'd like you to play the map and provide me any feedback that comes on your mind for how to improve the map. It would be preferable if you tested all three of the different playstyles (and, optionally, in multiple difficulty levels).
You can download the map (source included) here
. Just place the map in your id1/maps folder and fire away like a normal custom map. No mods this time around, unlike the first map in the episode. I haven't linked the two maps together yet, so you can't test the two maps in succession.
Note, that there are two versions of the map included in the package: an older version that hasn't been gamma corrected and a gamma corrected version (worldspawn has a "_gamma" key with a value of "1.3"). I think the gamma corrected version is more similar in brightness to the original Quake start map, so it may be the better version of the two. I've just gotten so used to the older version, that I'm not sure which I like better, so if you like, you guys could also give your opinion on which version is better.
To-do list for the map:
- Make the necessary modifications for dm.
- Fix compilation errors caused by the gamma correction (too many lightstyles on a face).
- Add some decorative corpses/gibs.
- Implement possible suggestions from beta testers.
The map started out incredibly strong. The amphitheater is a really cool concept and it looked great. I was impressed with how you maintained the smooth curvature and symmetry of it all. The area under the stage helped to sell the concept as well. I assume that those were dressing rooms that were locked at first.
The first area that you climb up as ogre grenades rain down upon you was such a neat mechanic. I'll never get tired of people using the high ground ogre in unique fashions such as this. Finally unlocking the main amphitheater area was a groundbreaking moment as you are presented with the scale of it as well as the grenade barrage. It was tricky at first but I learned to avoid too much trouble by constantly pushing forward.
I started to become a little disenchanted as I began scaling the audience balconies. Taking the elevator up sometimes put me face to face with an ogre - first a grenade to the face, then chainsawed to death as I had no way of getting past the ogre and no way to go back down. At this point, health and ammo were extremely scarce. I started save scumming in order to make it to the end and even then, it felt too rough. I started to flat out ignore the teleporting scrags and the final vore. On one hand, the final elevator up was interesting with more ogre grenades but if one made it inside the elevator, it was almost impossible to avoid the explosion. The shootable switch that closes the door only helps a tiny bit.
I did feel that the first half of the map was pretty perfect though. The ogre placement was spot on. They were exactly the proper distance to cause just enough trouble without feeling unfair. In the amphitheater, I would give the player a way to jump back down when taking the elevators up. Either that or make it so that the ogres are clear from the space immediately in front of the elevator.
Also please, please, please give ammo. I really don't even mind scarce health but if I don't have the ammo to kill monsters, then that's a huge problem. I never found a grenade launcher either so those basement zombies were just roaming around freely.
I have a demo but I don't think that it recorded much given that I had to reload saves a ton towards the end. I played on skill 2.
The non-gamma corrected version of the map won't load for me in Quakespasm. The version that I played looked fine. I think that the lighting was well done.
Recorded A First Run Quad Demo
pretty rough on me, let me know where to email with demo/discussions
Will hopefully get a chance to play the map later, I made some quick notes on your screenshots https://imgur.com/a/652whG4
Amphitheater Of Abaddon, Beta Version 2
Drew, I sent you an e-mail a moment ago, so you can send your demo to me in the reply message. Thanks in advance for testing! :)
And thank you, Poorchop, for your valuable feedback! Reading it motivates me and makes mapping even more worthwhile. :) Watching your demo was quite thrilling, with all the ammo and health shortages and close calls.
Hmm, I thought I HAD tested the map on the middle path with no secrets found, but I guess I hadn't, because I ran out of ammo, too, now that I tested it myself. @~@
Thanks to your feedback and additional testing, I added 40 shells to the map. Now I was able to end the map with around 40 shells and 20-30 nails (if I recall correctly); no secrets, skill 2, no zombies killed. I was also intentionally somewhat wasteful with my shells to allow some misses.
Of course, if one finds the grenade launcher, ammo becomes a LOT more plentiful after that. And don't forget that this is the second map of the episode, so the player could very well be stocked up with shells, nails and even a grenade launcher from the get-go.
Based on your feedback and some additional testing I've done, I've uploaded beta version 2 of the map:
Changes from beta 1:
- Added 40 shells and 15 health.
- Made a torch illusionary, so the player won't hit their head in it when using an elevator.
- Added a killtarget trigger for some some monsterjump triggers to ease movement of a fiend.
- Prevented ogres from getting right in front of an elevator in the amphitheater.
Sorry, I forgot to reply to your message in my previous post. Thanks for the notes! I had actually thought about the roof indentation, but wasn't sure if it was worth the trouble.
Maybe try out the beta version and then give me an update on the previous notes, whether you think they're still relevant after seeing the map live.
Don't Have Time To Play This
But man those screenshots look great. I'll be keeping tabs on this one!
Here's my second demo of the middle path. Sloppy playing (I actually died a few times before this due to being careless) but I was trying to run through fairly quickly. The ammo situation was good, as was the health. The center path is at a point now where it's challenging but completely fair. My only complaint was the fiend that sneaks out from behind the wall at the top of the first area you climb. I died there on an earlier attempt because I didn't have enough time to react to the wall opening behind me, and fiends hit hard.
It's hard to gauge the difficulty at this point since I mostly remembered what to expect but even then, it was still pretty tough. That's fine though - players who want an easier time can lower the difficulty. I tried a bit of the quad path but I didn't get too far with it yet. I also managed to find the grenade launcher this time and it made the map way easier.
I'll try to check out the right path as well. It's a cool concept to give the players three major variations of playing the same map.
Thanks for testing again, Poorchop! :) Some highlights from your replay:
- Knights ganging up against a vore.
- Finding the GL. Yaay, good job! :)
- Killing with a single grenade three bumbling knights flailing their swords in vain against a shambler.
- Trying to reach the silver key with a trick jump. Believe me, I did my best to make it as difficult as possible! >:D I've been able to get to the dangling beams on the other side but not quite able to find a way to climb to the key itself (if I recall correctly).
- The two final fiends accidentally charging at each other, inadvertently killing the other one in a hilarious slapstick comedy fashion! xD
Too bad you didn't quite figure out the fountain room secret. I was so rooting for you to find it! :'( There's also a secret the location of which will probably become more clear to the player who tries to clear the map following the Quad path.
About the difficulty: Yeah, after watching your first demo and feedback, the idea of suggesting playing the map in normal difficulty did cross my mind. After all, skill 2 is supposed to be HARD difficulty, and the map sure is pretty tough in that difficulty.
Sure, it may be tougher than most id maps at that difficulty, but this map is tough even with modern control schemes. So maybe I should add a disclaimer to the readme that hard really means hard for this map.
I'm wondering about the fiend. Should I have the fiend first make its presence known to the player by aggroing it with a trigger and only after a second long delay, or so, the monster closet would open. Does the ambush feel unfair otherwise? o:
I guess otherwise the middle path starts to look pretty finished. Thanks for your help! :)
Screenshots look good, I'll get you a demo tonight!
Overall I thought it was great, my favorite part was the gold key room with the vores at the bottom. I thought the invisibility ring path was interesting, ring respawn points were chosen well. The final elevator with the ogres raining on you was clever too! Some critique:
The area where the walls lower to reveal death knights was a bit much, I think a lesser enemy or enemy combo would be more interesting. I feel that the death knight is tedious to fight because of their high HP, putting one after another made that area a chore for me.
Entering the Shambler room was instadeath in every way I managed to approach it.
Quad path was boring for me since I didn't find any weapons.
Anyway, here are some demos: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ir5ipxHUNNTvkPGsOI1cyZM8gxOsaT9w
This isn't the first time I've seen your demos but I must say, you're one skilled player! O_O
Wow, that was nerve-racking to watch, and you got so close to the ending, too, and on a blind run to boot! You were on the brink of death there quite a number of times, and in the end being down to just one hp at that one point!
You have a super aggressive playstyle, rushing headlong into the hotzone! Like jumping down to the vores in the gk room, running to the middle of the amphitheater with the shambler, and the most ridiculous of all, juggling yourself along three shamblers to get a yellow armor! O_O
Your strategy of minimizing ammo usage by resorting to the axe from time to time was also interesting to observe. Seeing you pick up a quad damage prematurely was heartbreaking to watch. D': I was also worried seeing you pick up shells, while being almost stocked up already, but it seemed like you had the ammo situation pretty well taken care of.
An interesting point was seeing you being able to get up the elevator at the shambler room, while they were still alive; something that I had intended to make as difficult as possible, so congrats on "breaking" the map at that point. ;D I was kind of wondering, if you had forgotten about the elevator in the long corridor close to the vore. That elevator would have taken you to the second floor a lot more safely than trying to use the elevator in the shambler room.
As with the Subterrestrial Hangar, I wanted to keep the map somewhat challenging even on the quad path, which is why other weapons are hidden and nail boxes have been drastically decreased. A nailgun would be possible to find in a secret early on, though. You did find the first button to unlock the secret.
Nice work there! For some reason I hadn't actually thought about the player going through the shambler room while following the ring path, so using that route certainly made the map even shorter that way. :D
Hmm, you were also caught off-guard by the fiend ambush at the ogre tower climb room, were you not? Do you think I should add an invisible clip wall to prevent the fiend from immediately lunging at you after being aggroed? That would give the player a little more time to react to the fiend.
Really fun to watch! I liked how you just danced and toyed with your enemies in the gold key room. I can see why you liked that room the most.
About the shambler room being instadeath: That's kinda the way it's designed to be. :D It's indended to be either carefully cleared on the quad path by taking potshots from behind the door or then by the crusher button up the elevator. And uuuuuh, after seeing your ring of shadows run, apparently by sneaking past the shamblers altogether! :D
I can see you were prepared for the fiend ambush before the GK room this time. But I'd rather have it be possible for the player to react to it on his/her blind run, so maybe I should add a temporary invisible barrier to add some time to react...
About the tedious death knights: I think this demo demonstrates quite nicely why I went with death knights, because they can still keep harassing the player with their flame attack from down below if the player decides to ignore them altogether. That way the player has two directions to be aware of: both up and down. But yeah, maybe I could drive that point across with fewer death knights too. Maybe have them appear only the first and maybe the second time...
As a bit of trivia, in earlier versions of the GK room, the player could get stuck in the ramp corners really easily. There was discussion on the issue not that long ago, actually, in the Quakespasm thread
. To make the ramps smooth to traverse in that engine, I had the slopes fall one quake unit short of reaching the plateaus and having the player instead climb a step of 1 unit. I did add some illusionary brushes to give the illusion of a perfectly smooth climb, though. </the more you know>
A nice run. It was cool to see the chaos as you mostly just ran past your opposition before reaching the gold key door. It was also interesting to see how you were so bent on trying to get through the shambler room, going so far as to first rush to the lever, then stock up on health and then take the elevator again, but it seems the ogres were less willing to let you keep the health you had gone to accumulate.
Thanks for the insightful and entertaining demos! :) I think I just might decrease the amount of death knights in the ogre tower climb room and allow the player a bit more time to react to the fiend.
Amphitheater Of Abaddon, Beta Version 3
In case somebody would still like to test the map, here
you can download the third beta version of the map. I think, unless I get more feedback, I'd consider the single player portion of the map more or less complete. While waiting for possible feedback I'll work on dm modifications.
Changes from beta 2:
- Replaced two death knights with four knights to lessen tedium.
- Increased the chances of a player to react to a fiend ambush.
- Compiled sunlight2 with 1000 sunsamples to improve sky lighting quality a bit.
Re: Quad Path
The way I see it, the quad path could be an opportunity for a more run&gun approach, where the ring path is the opposite. I think throwing more beefy enemies and weapons along with the quads could make it pretty chaotic. Maybe something borderline horde-ish as a quad path.
sorry but I don't seem to have received the email, or I may have accidentally deleted it or something.
Drew And JCR
Drew, did you check the spam folder in your Gmail? It could have very well ended up in there. o: Look for a message with the title "Your demo on the Amphitheater of Abaddon".
About the run n' gun approach: I think changing the quad path to include beefier monsters and weapons would require a bit too much of an overhaul at this point of development to make the change worth it for me.
Plus, unlike in the Subterretrial Hangar, the premise in this map is to keep the core level more or less the same with the same monsters on each of the paths. Adding additional/beefier monsters for the quad path would break that premise, and in the Subterrestrial hangar I hated having to resort to telefragging monsters that are not encountered in other paths (to make it possible to get 100 % kills at the end of the map).
Speaking of the Subterrestrial Hangar, one can finish the map with an SSG, NG, GL, 100 shells, 130 nails, 25 rockets (and an RA if one finds the toughish secret), and with a little bit of testing I just did, I think the arsenal allows for some nice cathartic quad path action, while still keeping the map somewhat challenging.
So perhaps I COULD add at least an SSG to the quad path without making it too easy...
Here are some screenshots of maps I made for a SP qtest mod
with the early qtest gifs that were published.
This is awesome! =D
I saw the dragon/serpent flying in one of the screenshots... Your mod will feature all the unused models?
just for curiosity's sake i've found this page with three skins for some of the monsters of qtest http://androidarts.com/kawaiik/kawaiik.htm#qtest
Yes, all models that were in the original q1test.
I added the advanced dragons from Patrick Martin,
and my own Serpent and Axe_Ogre.
I'm fiddling a bit how to make the Axe_Ogre pee, laugh and give him flees.
Still in beta, but if you're curious, see the coding thread.
realy thanks for the skinfiles. Vormit already had a skin from the conversion of Dark Mage.
I was forgotten about the androidarts.com.
Looks great!! looking forward to this!
The Quaddamage and the Serpent
Nice Sprite, Kell!
Thanks to the coding of Dr.Shadowborough I overcome this great moment. Looks quiet spectacular, although the demo only works on quakespasm ad standards.
Be aware, it's alife
Nice! Some sound design should help make it a bit more menacing.
Ha, I'm a creep recording Q1.
Mostly I'm interested in the way it is done in the code.
Like the Headcrab in RMQ, I tried to extract it from the src,
but it is so integrated I can't lay my hand on it.
Madfox, are you still going to try to create some chasm monsters?
That looks cool. That pentagram effect was awesome. Is that all original?
@yhe1- I finished the dino, although it's hard to give it the right skin.
I started with straphos
and I must say the examples to work from are rather poor.
@Qmaster- Most of the coding is done by Shadowborgh. I was looking for a statue code and he turned it into this rare scene of turning a static into an entity. It is still a bit kinky and crashes on "trigger in clipping list".
madfox, I will gladly donate if you can create the monster and weapons in quake, since that chasm port appears to have stalled.
I finished the scorpio and the dino, as the static entity of the fans.
For my clear understanding,
you want all weapons and monsters from Chasm in Quake?
That's a pretty large case.
This is what I'v got so far.
Well, I am not demanding anything, but since you are creating new monsters and weapons anyway, why not take inspiration from Chasm?
I know m210 got a lot of donations for Bloodgdx, and Chasm doesn't have a finished port
I know m210 got a lot of donations for Bloodgdx
Explains why all instances of bloodgdx have been nuked from orbit
Nah, that was just m210 trolling everyone
A highly respectable decision. Should donate more money to the cause.
While working on the Stratos model I exceeded the tris/verts limits.
So I left it at that point.
I'd like to develop models, but it always goes as far as I've got fun in doing. I once tried the GlDoom models and that was alright, but these models were already in obj format.
I checked, they are converted in the pak file
That's a better way to start then constructing them myself again. Looking for a way to export them and add poses and skin.
I can import it from a md2 to a mdl model.
Only the skinfile is a bit tricky, as I have to remodel it again. There are a lot of vertices under it, out of the basebox of the model I had to delete.
I'd be curious to see how it mixes with enforcers when you are done.
I have always wondered how difficult it is to fulfill a wish
until I have the know-how to make it work.
I thought all Quake engines nowadays supported md2 files :/
Noesis Can Convert Chasm Models
that zdoom kid doesnt mention it because he know hes violating noesis license by theft
Who cares? Action Forms has been out of business for a long time
another zdoomkid, because he knows how to convert the skinfile
Is the stratos done? maybe an video with him and the enforcer?
It's Starting To Feel Like Quake Can Do ANYTHING...
That looks awesome and I'm stoked about another Arcane map.
Was wondering what happened with that spaceship map.
Can't wait to put my dirty quaker fingers on that thing!
This Place Is A Little Dry... Here's A Wet And Slimy Preview
First I want to say that mfx's shot looks awesome!
Second Madfox if you are reading this, I hope you finish that StarTrek mod cause it looks great.
Third, I'm working on a really late under the sea themed map. The map itself isn't anything special, but it does have new monsters and other surprises! Take a peek:
Mdl animation demo:
Those models do not fit into Quake in my opinion. They would better fit into a child game. There are already additional underwater monsters available for Quake including qc code. Ready to rumble:
The eel from Dissolution of Eternity:
The Q2 Barracuda Shark:
The jellyfish from Madfox:
You could even use the serpent as an underwater model because it looks and moves exactly like a skate:
Yes I am aware of the other water monsters, I have played Quake for a long time.
I made these monsters because it is intended NOT to feel like a Quake map. Mission accomplished maybe:)
Yes, that looks like a fairy monster that could fit well in your mod.
Don't look ugly like the ordinary quake ones, but attraction can have its own kind of scrambled inescapability.
As far for the StarTrek
mod I'm still betatesting.
The new monsters are still a bit wriggled and tend to overload the game. I could post it on Quaddicted but with the site down, well uh..,
It's almost done, just have an 744 eddict where only 640 is permitted.
A bit strange I never had a response from the Gorge
level I made for the QAnniversary 2016.
Madfox, did you ever finish the stratos?
It tumbles for code.
First Map, Feedback Appreciated
I wasn't able to finish this map and I won't be able to work on it for a really long time, so I'm releasing it as an unfinished beta. This is my first Quake map and it was mostly an exercise in learning the tools. There are some bugs but it should be playable
from start to finish. The ending areas were cobbled together at the last minute so some of it still looks like an unfinished mess.
This is a short map heavily inspired by sock, muk, Orl, and many others including everyone who worked on jam9. I'd like to say more but I'm already running really late for something and I have to bounce.
Feedback will be appreciated, although I might not have time to watch demos for a while. I'm hoping to get some advice on game play so that I can make something much better for my next map.
That Looks Very Impressive Mr Chop.
Dude, your map is awesome.
It's unfinished? It looks like a finished product to me. Didn't found any bug yet. This map feels very Sock style.
About game play : in nightmare mode, there's not enough ass holes to frag in there. Need more arses to kick.
Map style and details are really great. Please, finish this!
Sorry Madfox, you mean that the stratos code is not finished?
One of the major problems I have with the chasm models is, that it is rather hard to convert the skin file.
The models self are easy, but to remain to the original skinfile I have to paint them back again from a side-to-side skin to a qmle skinfile.
I know there are other methods to do this, but that is not in range of my workstyle.
is the result of my archivement. As you know Stratos shoots a double ringed sprite.
For getting that code right I have to lean back on the G-Rail code of Dr.Shadowborough.
So for maintaining your request: no, the code is not finished yet.
Linked Animation Looks Great Madfox
Thanks a lot for the kind words. I'm really glad that you thought it felt like sock's style because that's exactly what I was shooting for.
I had initially planned for a lot more monsters but once I started adding them in, it felt like I didn't really allocate enough space for combat. Big open spaces and long lines of sight also made it hard to add monsters since that kind of forced me to teleport most of them in.
this is vanilla?
Got it, Looking forward to seeing it in action.
Did you convert any other chasm models?
Yeah I forgot to include installation instructions in the readme, I just typed it up really quickly without thinking. Regular id1.
Congrats on an excellent first map, here's a Playthrough
for you. I'd say aside from some minor clipping, there's little reason not to release it outright IMO.
Thanks a lot for the compliments and for the video. It's really rewarding to watch other people play through my maps.
Regarding the clipping, I had a really hard time blocking off that roof that you tried jumping onto without making it look really ugly. I actually added that wooden bar and a drape on the other side of the tower in order to try and discourage it but you were determined to try and get on there, understandably so - I'd have tried doing it myself.
Your play style is really interesting. You were really conservative with ammo, opting to use the axe on occasion. You also went in head first in the library and I got a little worried when you dropped down to 5 health.
I got a kick out of your in game comments and I appreciate you taking the time to write them while playing. I was keeping my fingers crossed that you'd find the lower library secret with the books. You actually found the hardest book by accident and you came so very close to finding the final one. Three of the books are illuminated and you happened to stumble upon the one that was barely visible. I was still glad that you persisted for a while and tried hard to find that last book.
Thanks for the feedback and for playing through. I might take a few minutes to fix some of the known bugs and then release it properly due to the encouragement.
It would be really a shame not to release that great map, with its bugs fixing.
Don't stop maping dude, you have talent.
Regarding the books, I think it would be best to illuminate them all consistently to ensure the player finds them IF he is looking for them. I actually noticed the relief before I noticed the spotlight on them. I thought it was a well done secret but I didn't want to spend much more time on it. Regarding the clipping, the faraway cave was a cool intermission screen, but seeing it from the player's perspective was obviously tempting to try going after!
Thanks Barnak. I'll be mapping more in the future when I get some more time. It's a lot of fun.
jcr, the book you hit accidentally actually is illuminated but there's a nearby flame that kind of obscures it and it's hard to make it any brighter than it already is. I actually thought that the other 3 books were way too obvious, which is why I didn't do much about making the fourth book stand out too much against the torch light. You brushed up against the surface of almost every single book case except for the one with the final book. The biggest issue I noticed with that secret is that you thought one of the books might have been on the upper level.
Anyhow, that was supposed to be the hardest secret so I wanted the player to work for it. As for the cave, I remember RC playing breezeep's Mayan jam map and appreciating some unreachable details like distant trees, so that's kind of what I going for with the cave. It was also a shoutout to Orl's Ter Shib maps with how he had some details and storytelling elements in the far distance. In retrospect, I'd redesign the entire layout to ensure that the player wouldn't be in any position to even try and jump on top of the roof.
I echo what everyone else is saying in that for an unfinished map, it looks and plays extremely well. I really enjoyed it, and I am flattered that it was a shout out to Ter Shibboleth.
If this map is what you consider to be unfinished, I can only imagine a finished map of yours will be amazing.
First run demo, hard skill: http://www.quaketastic.com/files/demos/orl_mahogany.rar
Terrific work Poorchop!
Skill 2 Demo
Super Solid First Release
got cocky in first run, will record 2nd run and send soon
See post #15792.
What a great map! Keep mapping please. I know you are busy but don't stop mapping.
Thanks a lot Orl, ww, Drew, and dumptruck.
Orl, I'm honored that you played the map since Ter Shib was a big inspiration. Thanks for taking the time to record and send the demo. Watching it made me realize that I never closed off the library entrance after the player gets the gold key, which allows them to bypass the final shambler. Hopefully I'll eventually get around to making the shib3 inspired map that I initially had in mind before I made this one.
Thanks as well for the demo, ww. Your playing was really good and you're the first person to get the rocket launcher. You also have a keen eye because I think that you were the first to notice the secret books before accidentally bumping into one of them. The same book eluded both you and jcr and I was really hoping that you'd find it.
dumptruck, thanks for taking the time to check this out. It wouldn't have been possible without your help. Your videos were an invaluable resource and I always had them up alongside Trenchbroom as I was doing this. As fun as Trenchbroom is to use, I wouldn't have attempted this if not for your tutorials. I'll definitely map more in the future.
Thanks - those are the types of comments that make the time involved worth it!
I said it before and I'll say it again, I'm excited to hear you planning on building a map inspired by shib3. Heck I think the far east Asian setup would make a great theme for a speedmap pack, but that's not up to me to decide.
Got A Trailer And Demo For A Quake Based Dreamcast Game I'm Making!
Hey there! I'm making a Dreamcast game using the Quake engine and thought you guys might want to take a look at what I got so far! I have a trailer and a demo that I update with new gameplay and fixes every so often.
Check it out!
Here's the trailer
Here's the demo:
Want to reiterate - very strong debut material! 1st demo sober and cocky, dies poorly. next two demoes quite high so hopefully not too frustrating to watch
glad to see you're still working on this and making progress
My 2nd map :
Screenshots : http://www.quaketastic.com/files/single_player/maps/aerial.jpg
Download : www.quaketastic.com/files/single_player/maps/aerial.zip
Getting Some Maps Finished Up, Need Feedbacks
Hey guys, looking for feedback for my map, it started off as a map for the copper jam, which evolved into an e2m5 remix, which evolved into the beast that it currently is.
Only one skill at the moment, there is a bit of detail to be added to some areas, and there is a lot of clip brushes to add.
Any playthrough demos would be awesome. Thanks in advance :)
If I had a lampoon
fish, how would I make it glow in the dark?
I first tought fullbrights would do the trick,
but in complete darkness there's no light to reflekt.
Fullbrights work in complete darkness
Then at least the trick works.
I wondered how it look in a dark cave.
It looks kind of like the Angler Fish from Rayman Legends, and it would light the way in the dark.
Also there is a trick you can use to keep the environment dark, but light up your models: Since the model adopts the light value of the floor, you can make the floor a func_illusionary (with clip/skip brushes for collision). Beneath the func_illusionary place a func_group brush with _minlight set on it.
This method will allow you to keep the environment very dark, but also light up your models. I used this trick to light up my seahorses and mermaid splash in this dark cave of water:
For my clear understanding,
I made a map with the lampoonfish, but in dark I see no sign of fullbrights.
So I made a tex brush of quakepal to see if the lower range would glow in the dark, but they don't.
Do I have my settings wrong?
Sounds interesting, Redfield. Also a bit complicated, I remember I had to do such a thing to make the startrek model have a good lightning.
some models in quake have a glowing attribute, like the lasers from Enforcers (newmis.effects = EF_DIMLIGHT;). Maybe you can copy that attribute and adapt it to your fish code, this way he will really glow in the dark, it doesn't matter the skin color.
Thanks, Tribal. That could work, I was thinking of the moving_light code also. But after working with new models for so long deleting fullbright's, I just can'you see why they won'the appear now as in the example.
Madfox: do you seen fullbrights on models created by other people?
If not, make sure gl_fullbrights is 1
It works as soon as I made a subdirectory.
It seems my TmpQuark has got a bit diluted.
Quark Is Best
Madfox, Keep on!
I remember how I got this idea
. I lowered the triangles untill qmle could load it. My texturing is bad, when I had a good UV skin file I spent a week and now the midle ridge is meshed up.
A bit dark, but that's what this baracuda
New Multiplayer Map
I have created small multiplayer map for duel.
Anyone would like to take a look on it and let me know what might be improved?
I didn't play a match but I did load it up and looked around.
Things I liked:
I has a very solid old school feed to it.
Very nice lighting overall. The shadows from the skylights look great.
Looks like a fun layout for a duel map for sure.
You have some nice brushwork, particularly the Red Amor area.
Some of the areas are a bit bland looking. And monochromatic. Try a darker floor color in different areas maybe? You also may want to add some simple trim here and there. Or add some accents like torches or light fixtures. This would help to differentiate the areas.
There's an area with a pool of water and room behind the bars it is very dark. Might be a good area for a secret or a strobing or pulsing light. Right now it's just dark.
I would consider one more connection between your play areas. The layout seems like a loop and maybe you could add one passageway somewhere to open up the flow a bit.
Overall you have a very nice level - keep mapping!
I forgot something important in my last post. Use -soft
when you light your map. You have a lot of "jaggy" shadows at the moment in your map. These settings will look way better.
More info here: https://ericwa.github.io/ericw-tools/doc/light.html
Played against the Reaperbot and had a lot of fun. It can improve on the looks for sure. I'm not talking about brush sculpting, only common sense design like: door frames, variation of color and light/dark on the textures, etc.
I frequently got stuck on teleport frames. Also, I couldn't see a point in that water volume. Am I missing something?
thanks for comments so far!!!!
Yeah, I've needed it. Answers to you comments are below.
I admit maps is not finished yet.
- Teleportes stuck me frequently when I am playing. I plan to correct it. I will move it into wall
- Some areas are "bland looking", I have paused work on on great look and testing playability.
- I am plannig to retuxturize it. Maybe I will give up for brick texture and try dm4 texture.
- I am planning to add frames and details at the end.
Regarding dark area, there was passage to the GL room but I have close it. It was not used when we have played with my friend.
Water... My plan was to use it to set up trap to kill player who dominates at the moment (it is all about keeping red armor). So you could jump into water and discharge :)
Aparently no one has used it so far when playing. It might be removed.
I have to admin i have got various comments on the level.
First. my own opinion is that level is bit small for duel, as you can run around level within few seconds (yes, strafe jumping!). Then I got feeedback that level is to big and is better for FFA. And another, that it shuld be more open map, not so many corridors as in maze :)
At the end I think each plays differently and expect different motions, like more shooting, more sniffing and setting traps.
Anyway, thanks again for feedback and yes, I am going to continues mapping as this gives me fun!
I Always Wanted To Make A Map Inspired By The Giant's Causeway
So I wrote a script to generate arbitrarily-sized stepped terrain from a height map.
Ooh! Can you do hexagons?
Could use OBJ2MAP to do that
That's very cool. Feel free to share!
Happy to share, but I wrote the script in Mathematica which is not the most mainstream of languages!
Hey Ubiq, I'm a Mathematica user too!
Mma is the best math package out there, and fuck Maple.
I didn't tried your code though.
That Looks Ace.
That's a Doom map? The verticality is strong with this one.
New Map, Need Advice
I've been working on my first map for 6 weeks and it's almost ready for release but I'm not sure about the ammo/health distribution and number of monsters. If anyone wants to test it and let me know if it's too easy/hard I'd really appreciate it. Also, any general criticism or advice is always welcome, as it will help me plan future maps better.
I intended to just test some ideas and learn the basics of TrenchBroom (thanks dumptruck for the great tutorials) but it got out of hand very quickly so I combined it all into a playable level. There are some puzzle experiments which I decided to leave in, but I made them easy to avoid frustration.
I limited myself to just using start.wad, so there isn't much texture variety, but I tried to compensate with geometry
The map is based on an ancient Dwarven Forge, infested with monsters. There's a small back story in the readme.txt
map & screenshots here:
Sir, More Monsters In Nightmare Mode!
I didn't tested the map yet, but I feel it is for sissies again.
In nightmare mode, there should be 500 monsters, at the very least.
People play Nightmare because they want a real challenge, so I'll add plenty of pain for the release.
For now, I'd just like to get it balanced for Normal/Hard and then I can remove some for Easy and add loads for Nightmare.
The zombie/underground area was the highlight for me. The blue areas felt a bit cramped and the strong enemies made it challenging. I noticed bumping into the geometry in certain areas, see the demos. Check out my comments in the demos as well. It was fun and well designed. Great job!
Thanks for checking it out, glad you enjoyed it!
How do I access those dem files?
Figured It Out
Thanks jcr for the great demos, and your kind words. I'll definitely take note of your suggestions, I need to tidy up those door edge textures, I keep forgetting because they're not visible in the editor :)
City Of Lights
Looks pretty chilling! Excellent work!
Well God Damn.
just watched that 3 times... looks fucking cool, keep it up!
Well That's A Bit Bonkers!!
Looks interesting to say the least.
Friend: So they're finally getting used to your weirdness in mapping?
Me: They have no choice.
LOL True Dat.
Looks awesome. I like the alleys, and yeah
Also impressive texture usage.
My eyes nearly fell off, as is expected i guess.
Cannot wait to play this.
The Big Skeleton's Eyes Fell Out As Well
Also its a bit hard to spot but the Eiffel Tower can be seen in the distance. And its not just a background decoration either, its part of the map from the bottom all the way to the top.
Map require Quoth2.2 and engine with increase limits, support bsp2 and transparent sprites. In my arsenal only quakespasm can work with this map.
I tried your map. It's a nice one, but it needs MUCH more monsters in nightmare mode. Only 139 monsters on such a large map? Come on, it needs at least 1000 arses to fuck.
The ascending scales are not working. I had to noclip to move on.
The zombie pictures from the shooting plants game are funny. Not very Quacky though.
The last part before exit wasn't working. No monsters at all in that place (with all the broken bricks walls). I had to noclip to exit the level.
You did not play correctly. The map must be run under the mod Quoth2.2
This is what I did. Quoth 2.2 here.
I placed the sounds and progs folders directly into the Quoth folder, and they appear to not be recognized.
Maybe you forget to make the right start?
quakespasm -game quoth
Of course, I did this. Here's my exact start command :
-hipnotic -game quoth +skill 3 -heapsize 480000 -zone 4096 -sndspeed 44100 -fsaa 2
Using the 0.92.2 Spike version of QuakeSpasm, under OS X.
I'll retry your map to see what happens...
-hipnotic -game quoth
It's just -quoth, and has been for many years.
What is hipnotic again? I'll never remember what it's doing.
Rotations, I Believe?
Hipnotic was the studio that developed Mission Pack 1.
Also, I think you don't need the heapsize/zone stuff anymore in QS/QSS, and you should upgrade to latest version 0.93.1.
The -hipnotic switch was required to enable the modified status bar that was introduced in Mission Pack 1 and is also used in Quoth. Newer ports like Quakespasm have a -quoth switch that does it automatically.
Not your typical digs map... but I dig it nonetheless. Assuming the final arena is still being worked on, I thought the rest of the map was quite polished and good to go. The layout can be a bit confusing and the silver key door is tricky to find - I think I stumbled upon it accidentally. Otherwise nice map, especially the underground sections, and the secrets kicked my ass, 1/4.
Played through the map on skill 1, 2/4 secrets found.
The map is very good-looking and plays very well. I liked especially the underground areas, as i'm not a big fan of open spaces.
All areas are well connected, so i never got lost as it happens usually when i play maps this large.
Good art style too, you can really feel the horror atmosphere playing through every area.
Pace was good, and i never found myself struggling too much for ammos. I like the way you put the right amount of them over the map.
I din't like too much the paintings from plants vs zombies, as i think tributes to other games should be put in some secret areas, and not all over the place. I felt like they were a bit taking away that horror feel (that i loved) from the map.
Some areas of the map felt like they were supposed to be important, with good detail and interesting design (that area under the bridge for example) but then i found they were useless. Maybe that's just because i didn't found the secrets, who knows!
I don't understand what is happening with the ascending scales. I can't use them wathever what I'm doing (walking, running on it, jumping, ...). I tried the default QS 0.93.0 and the Spike version.
Something seems fishy here.
I agree about the zombie cartoons. They feel goofy in Quake. Maybe some monsters porn instead ?
I can explain what they do on the walls. This map was made at the request of my son. He is 12 years old. Therefore, there are such awkward things on the map. I myself understand that they are not written off in the overall design, but still decided to leave them
Wow, you're a super-dad dude!
My dad is 81 years and would never make Quake maps for me :-(
impressive stuff, very blood-like. I like that you're using tronyn's mod, not enough people use it tbh
When downloading AfterQuake I saw a screenshot
of a mirrored player.
Is this effect obtainable in AfterQuke, or is it a sidecase effect of DarkPlaces that creates this mirror?
that's FTE's r_telestyle 3 setting.
Thanks for info, Spike!
Or should I say, blame me for not reading the manual.
Dear friends, a.k.a fucking morons.
Please learn to upload your files to the right folder instead of cluttering the main page with your shit, forcing people to scoll down endlessly for the login button.
I'm Probably Guilty Of This
Any way of just moving the files? I know it would break some hyperlinks but the files would still be retained
Delete Them All
quake skill 3 with respawning monsters and items/powerups is it ok thing ?
and skill 2 behaves as skill 3
Also Neg Can Press The ‘end’ Key?
I'm late on this one, but I finally got around to playing it and I just love it! Of course whenever I see a map that isn't the conventional Quake theme of castle or base gets my attention. (Not that that's a bad thing) You did a stellar job of creating a farmhouse, at least that's what I think it is. Everything looks good from the decrepit interiors and the windows letting you see the inside, to the vegetation outside. My only suggestion would have been to make the spinning part of the windmill more visible to the player throughout the map, as I think it makes an excellent set piece.
As far as gameplay, it wasn't too bad on hard skill. Almost died at the end but I always have trouble with those gugs.
I think you did an excellent job with this one, certainly well enough to be fully released.
First run demo, hard skill: http://www.quaketastic.com/files/demos/orl_digs09.rar
Thanks a lot! I already thought that no one would record a demo for me. I liked that you managed to pass the map from the first time. The last hall is difficult for me, but I think it should be so.
As for the mill ... Her blades and so big. And they have no physical collision with objects. I calculated its length so that it was not noticeable.
For the release, I will add a few monsters on a hard level, otherwise it is not much different from the normal level. And the last room due to the large delays between the waves of monsters will be a little easier.
I am also glad that the map is like. In the coming days I will post a release
hi, here's my attempt to beat the map on skill 3
lasted 'til the gugs
reminded me of hexen2/blood combo
Thank you very much for the game. When you killed the vorelings, I also thought about monster_jump. In the release I will add it. Thanks again!
Inspired By Lunaran
@digs (if It's Possible)
i would advise you to increase the secret count on your map, for a such big map the number of the secrets is to low
Tempel Of Doom-Beta; Testing
Hallo friends. six months have been gone till I started with mapping for quake. Now I think this thing is going for finish.
Right now I'm checking out the failures in compiling.
I would ask you guys now for help.
Are there bugs? Graphic problems? or other issues.
Please tell me!
My Thoughts On Temple Of Doom
An interesting map you have in the making here, GunSgtHighway. :) I like its oldschool looks. It's really rough around the edges, but there are elements that are nicely detailed, like individual decorations and I like the brushwork in the cave areas, especially in the Shambler/Scrag room.
One thing about the map's filename: It's called tod.bsp, but there is already a map called tod in Quaddicted, Tower of Death, so when I tried to extract your map to my maps directory, it was trying overwrite the older tod map. You might want to change your map's filename. People often name their maps after themselves, like in my case I could name my map esrael01.bsp, for example.
To spare the older map from being overwritten, I renamed your map files to GSH_tod.xxx and recorded a demo of my playthrough in Quakespasm. You can download my demo from the link below:
You may have to rename your own tod.bsp and tod.lit to GSH_tod.bsp and GSH_tod.lit, so my demo would work on your computer.
Most of my comments are in the demo, but my main gripes about the map would be the low difficulty and the lack of guidance. Combat could be made more difficult by adding more tough monsters like ogres, fiends and scrags. The map is mostly populated by lowly grunts and knights, which makes the map quite easy. I'd also recommend mixing monsters together. You could combine Scrags to attack from above while other monsters keep you occupied below.
I couldn't also find the Thunderbolt anywhere, even though you added cells in the map. Is it hidden in some secret? If it is, you could also add secret markers in the map.
The biggest problem would be the lack of guidance. Doors aren't marked with the symbols of the corresponding keys, especially the gold key door I found completely by accident.
All in all, it's clearly a beginner map with its flaws, but it was really interesting to explore. I was really interested to see what I was going to see in the next room. I'm looking forward to seeing the map finished and your future maps! :)
Thanks for your thoughts on the map Esrael. I will rename it and rethink the guidance and monsters. Will take a week or more.
A stupid question. How can I open the demofile? :D
Instructions For Playing Demos
1. Place the dem file to your id1 folder
2. Start up your Quake engine
3. Open the console and type
That's it! :) In this case you'd type
If it doesn't work, rename your map files to GSH_tod.bsp and GSH_tod.lit, because that's what I renamed them to when I extracted your files to my maps directory.
Ok. I Finaly got it. :)
Yes you're definitly right with the guidance. Will place the keylogos on the doors and maybe some signs on the way too. The clipping is a big thing too. Hmm a little of work to do. :)
If you want to fix the clipping issues without affecting the looks of the map, you can prevent the player from going to forbidden places with invisible walls. Just make a brush with the clip texture.
Glad I could help you out by testing the map. It's easy to become blind to flaws when creating stuff, so having someone else inspect your creations with a set of fresh eyes can be really beneficial.
Anyway, don't give up! Doing the final touches to a map can be tedious, but reaching the point where you're happy with the end result can be very rewarding!
Baddies Keep Coming..,
Made a new ogre model (with some glitches) bow_ogre
Hoo boy, like the concept but the QME jitters are strong with this one.
With a glitch, I know.
I use a bone model to animate and it measures normal lengths (1m70). The Quake models are in this standard just 40cm.
When converting from this scale a lot of adjustments get lost, because the modelgrid is 512x512. Importing a giant in Qmle and scaling down is not the way to do it.
I'm convering down the bone-model, as it produces finer details in the movements.
errrmm...aka "fundamental unavoidable artifact when using the mdl model format, irrespective of tools" jitters you mean?
I've often banged on about a hypothetical "mdl2" format that just uses higher precision for vert coords. This is what I'm going on about.
Adjusting the bone model had a better result.
Still it's hard to make the right movement with the shoulders. There are two cubes in the upper arm that have a wicked connection.
I've often banged on about a hypothetical "mdl2" format that just uses higher precision for vert coords. This is what I'm going on about.
Something backwards compatible would be nice, what I'm picturing is:
[standard binary for an MDL]
[extra double-precision frame data]
The idea would be MDL standard, just with 16 bit precision instead of 8 bit on each coordinate. The most compact way of doing that is to treat the standard frame data as containing the upper 8 bits of the coordinate. Then the double-precision part is a second chunk, the same size as the normal frame data, but the vertex coordinates in this chunk are used in the lower bytes instead.
I suppose it would be healthier to add a small header between the two chunks, so further extensions could be added.
[standard binary for an MDL]
[extension 1 header]
[extra double-precision frame data]
[extension 2 header]
[extension 3 header]
[hidden bitcoin miner]
[extension 4 header]
The header could be quite minimal, just a value to indicate what type of extension is coming up, then the size of the extension data. That way engines could skip the extensions they don't recognise and keep going. Existing engines wouldn't even look for the extensions, there would just be a bunch of junk at the end of the file they don't look at (this is how Extended-BSP format worked).
May be worth also adding a value that can be set in the standard MDL header to signal to compatible engines that there are extensions to look for. Otherwise any junk at the end of the file might be misinterpreted as an extension (and I think QME used to write bonus stuff to the end of files).
How would an extension not cause a file read error?
The header of the MDL file tells you how many of each repeating element the file contains (skins, triangles, frames). Based on the rest of the data in the header (vertex count, skin dimensions) you can pretty much predict exactly how much data you need to read for each one (animation groups complicate this a bit but you can read them one at a time).
This scheme relies on the loading code running loops of the lengths specified in the header, reading elements from the file until the correct count is reached. At that point, it just stops reading the file - in a normal mdl file that happens to be the end of the data anyway, but if there's more data it's just discarded*. This is known to work OK in the base engines because QME used to tag additional data on the end without making the .mdl file unreadable.
* There is the possibility that a source-port engine rewrote its mdl loading code, and by doing so made an error of excess data at the file-end. The QME files might mean the issue was already caught. Otherwise this engine would not be compatible with extended-mdl files until fixed. I'd say this is unlikely in practice, and would be easy to patch.
Sometimes You Have To Be Awkward
When it comes to getting people to support new formats, you need both a carrot and a stick.
carrot: higher precision coords.
stick: an annoying message appears until its actually supported properly.
Without the stick its just something that can be put off for another day if anyone ever uses the format, and if no engines support it then noone will ever bother using the bulkier format that tools cannot even write. Think of it simply as a constant reminder that action is needed.
Without the carrot its just an annoying format that has no reason to exist.
So by designing your extended format to have no stick, you ensure that there's no reason for anyone to ever support the format, and thus that there's no reason to ever write it either. Never underestimate how lazy engine devs can be...
Another thing is that the reason to use mdl is qme. remove qme (because it cannot write the format) and you remove the reason for people to stick with such an ancient obtuse format too. Just use MD3 or something, QSS is such a minor upgrade. (ignoring bugs new to qss,) The only reason not to is if you're targetting vanilla, in which case any hidden extensions are pointless anyway.
Additionally, if you're trying to make it easy for engines to support then just add a new alternative type of framegroup - one that's 16bit instead (the stick being that engines that don't recognise it will glitch out weirdly putting the blame on the engine). Nothing drives adoption better than users constantly reporting horrendous glitches.
That way there's no need to go backwards or anything, its just a struct/datatype change (with the old stuff being padded where its read).
Either way, you still need tools. You already explicitly mentioned QME's additional data - part of that additional data being 16bit data. Find out+document the format of that existing additional data and you not only have a tool that can already write your extended mdls (one that people already seem to be using for some reason), but you also grandfather in all those models that were already (unintentionally) distributed with that data. Still needs a stick though.
Or just provide both an mdl and an md3 and throw in a little qc to select formats based upon the engine's supported formats (hurrah for in-game messages recommending users switch to another engine until a feature is implemented properly).
Or just use md3 exclusively and ignore anyone using an engine that STILL doesn't support that. Yes, it sucks for vanilla but in fairness its been a while since I(and presumably most people) ran quake in dos/dosbox.
People have had 15 years to say "I'm using MD3 and you just need to switch engines", but nobody does that. Nearly all the engine additions that have been actually adopted (skyboxes, fog, coloured lights) succeeded because they were backwards compatible.
It's not about being able to still play it in dosquake, it's about being able to play it in any engine. That's pretty important if you want to keep all the players who don't pay much attention to engine developments, or who value the stability of engines with slow release cycles. Writing off a percentage of an already small audience seems unwise.
Nobody's ever tried to make backwards compatible enhancement to the .mdl format, I'd like to see if it works. Maybe it won't catch on, but the nice part is that it won't matter - because any content that experiments with it will also be forwards-compatible with future engines if it turns out to be a dead end.
I'd like to see if I can make it work
I agree that the model that seems to succeed is where there is an acceptable fallback for engines that don't support that feature, such as entity alpha, skyboxes, fog, fence textures, lit files, external textures, etc. In all those cases the content is mostly still playable in a vanilla engine.
There are exceptions: aguirre's extended bsp limits, and the bsp2 format are two cases where there is no fallback and it still caught on and became accepted. I was going to add protocol 666 to this list, but this is not something forced on people by a map or mod, so users still have a choice of protocols that provide the raised limits.
I agree that extended BSP limits are the rare exception that tests the rule (and this is coming from someone who usually doesn't bother playing maps in bsp2 format). To my mind the key difference there is that it's about breaking limits more than visual enhancement, and there's no obvious way you can do that in a backwards-compatible way.
Just To Complicate Things
I always figured the reason to do a 16-bit mdl format is so you can make monsters that would otherwise look like total trash in mdl. The thought of having a large chunk (most?) of your audience just seeing the trash version anyway because of backwards compat will probably make you design the model in a conservative way to minimise this, which itself weakens the reason for doing 16-bit in the first place, so eh I ‘unno.
For The Record I Still Like Preach’s Take On The Idea
It seems elegant despite my above misgivings
wouldn't it be simple to code into the engine a search for a md3(or md2) version of the same model name? So much like the high def textures for those who want to use them.
It would mean that so long as the person modelling had released a lower poly version of the mdl too it would be available and wouldn't break vanilla compatibility.
you could fall back to an existing entity in the pak. If I make a new monster md3 but the engine doesn't support it, fallback to an Ogre. Have that fallback mdl definable by the mapper.
^^^^ that's stupid
I still don't see how it would be possible to do the amazing effects (outside of full fledged particles a'la Maya or Blender) that Preach manages to pull off with the mdl format. I'm still at a loss on how to make polygons dissappear into themselves.
The trick is that you take each particle, and on the frames where you want it to be invisible you apply a scaling transformation with scale factor 0 (typing the value numerically is the surest way to do it). There are variations on this, like on some models I only apply the transformation on one axis, so that the particle collapses into a line rather than a point. But it's all about scaling - it's the easiest way to ensure that all the vertices align so the polygon disappears.
I Had No Idea...
and this is coming from someone who usually doesn't bother playing maps in bsp2 format
This is heartbreaking.
Is there anything that would bring cause for a bsp3?
I have now made an arc_ogre, but I am faced with the problem that my splines are converted into four on each clip node when converted. The result is that a q1 model with relative weight triangles is converted to two triangles in each square. I can only save them in squares, which are converted to two triangles.
If I import this to qmle, the ratio of internal triangles has almost doubled.
Would this make much difference to a model with only half of verts / tris? As long as it stays below 1000tris / 2000verts, it should make little difference.
Sepulcher allegedly came close to hitting the upper limits, and also it did something that required a change in Quakespasm, but I don't remember what.
The 3DRealms game has some gigantic maps, but IIRC they don't use their own map format.
I suspect Bal will be the first one to break bsp2 ;-) but at that point, adopting q3bsp would probably happen first.
Although strictly speaking some engines (e.g. unmodified GLQuake) do have a limit of 1000 triangles, the original software engines allowed 2000 triangles, and pretty much every custom engine at least restored the limit to that level. So you're probably OK to exceed 1000 if you need to.
In my case it is not the tri limit, but the question if I should simplify a working model with relative high counts into one with less for benifit of better performance.
It's quiet a lot of work doing this in Qmle.
Pictures, screen captures, screenshots, views of work in progress, ... come on, make us get an hard on, Quake style!
Trying to adjust maps by the hand of the first screenshots, with no dynamic light.
Sorry for the low resolution, old quake school.
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