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The Definitive Frikbot Waypack
The Definitive Frikbot Waypack, by Lightning Hunter:

After working on this for nearly 6 months on and off, I give you the Definitive Frikbot Waypack! Get ready for hours of bot fragging fun!

Description:
This pack adds bot support for nearly 400 user created Quake maps, all extensively tested and perfected by the biggest bot perfectionist (me). It is for use with the Frikbots. Around 167 of these were created from scratch, while the rest were improved by me. When I say improved, I mean that I basically spent so much time updating waypoints by other authors that it probably would have been easier creating them from scratch. I was very meticulous about making sure each and every map had the best bot support possible. I didn't slack off in any one map! For this very reason, I have titled this pack the Definitive Frikbot Waypack. You will not find a more comprehensive archive of Frikbot waypoints - all of them the very best quality. Nothing has been left out, so stop your waypoint searching here.

Please visit the thread here for downloads, more information, YouTube videos of the bot navigation abilities, 24-bit texture packs, and more.
http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-mod-releases/finished-works/5154-definitive-frikbot-waypack.html

NOTE: The waypoints do not currently work with Quakeworld (Quakeworld needs a different format). I am looking into making a QW version in the future. These should work with every other engine, however.
Nice Work LH 
 
Way Cool 
LH....nice stuff:)

I know you from the Unreal Community and am glad you share my passion for the game that originally fried my synapses..Quake! 
WOW! 
Thanks for your work!! 
 
Thanks guys. :)

Yo Zbreaker! It's fun catching other classic gamers on multiple forums. :D 
Just Downloaded This 
havent played quake dm for years, ever since skorpion's omibot site closed down for waypoints.

much much appreciated! 
 
Lightning_Hunter nice work, cant wait for the Quakeworld version! this will be really cool NQ for dm maps are not as fun as QW 
Fired Up Some Classics 
efdm12, baldm8, kikdm5, kikdm6, carddm2, p3a and a2.

Bloody hell they still look damn good! Got raped since it was my first attempt at quake dm in years, I'm way too slow right now. 
 
this bot is a fecking cheater.

his unbelievable boomstick aiming, and his boomstick aiming much better than my lg aiming, wtf???
no delay between respawning and this is very annoying

just played vs skill 3 bot on pkeg1, and 'twas way too hard,

i prefer frogbot :) 
Why Complain About That Here? 
I didn't design the code for the Frikbots. I only made some waypoints for them. Why complain about that here? Besides, why are you playing them on skill 3 if it's too hard for you? I personally think they are a nice challenge.

The Frikbots have unbelievable aim with the boomstick, sure - but I also believe they have the best navigation skills of any bot. Just look at the videos I uploaded on the official thread.

Also, Nitin just reminded me, I was going to upload a video of the bot navigation skills in p3a but forgot. It's up now. You can view it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_OsZXpV3Yk 
 
but I also believe they have the best navigation skills of any bot. Just look at the videos I uploaded on the official thread.

i disagree about friks best nav skills af any bot
here are 2 small demos
frogbot p3a navigation and frikbot p3a navigation
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/frognav_vs_friknav.rar

Besides, why are you playing them on skill 3 if it's too hard for you? I personally think they are a nice challenge.

i have played them on skill 3 just to know, can i beat 'em or can't. it was tough but i could beat the frikbot on skill 3
-----------------------------

ps. sorry no offence here.
to each his own...... 
 
Are you seriously calling that navigation better? First of all, how long did you watch the Frikbots to see them making those mistakes? They do make mistakes, sure, but your demo showed the worst case scenario. I'll bet you showed the best case scenario for the Frogbot's, which I would argue is equal to the Frikbot's worst case scenario.

What version of the Frogbots are you using and where do you download them? I would like to compare their navigation on a more complicating map than p3a and upload my own "comparision". 
 
What version of the Frogbots are you using and where do you download them?
that version of the frogbots is modified 012c version
First of all, how long did you watch the Frikbots to see them making those mistakes? They do make mistakes, sure, but your demo showed the worst case scenario. I'll bet you showed the best case scenario for the Frogbot's, which I would argue is equal to the Frikbot's worst case scenario.
both demos was recorded with only one attempt.
believe or not.
I would like to compare their navigation on a more complicating map than p3a and upload my own "comparision".
which map do you calling "more complicated"?
i know that frogbot can't play any map, some of the maps are too complicated for frogbot to play. eg. dm2 
 
Where can I get the modified 012c verson of the Frogbots? And can I use it in anything else but Quakeworld? I can only seem to find a QW version...

The Frikbots have dm2 support, but the waypoints were not done by me. They do a pretty good job of obtaining everything and activating some of the traps.

Complicating maps include anything with hard to reach powerups, like ztnbase, damaul2, cmt1b, etc.. An example would be the pentagram in "Agent.bsp". Can the Frogbots obtain it? Can they use the secret teleporter in ztndm6? Can they It's rare that I come across a button-combo/item that the Frikbots cannot obtain.

How about the powerups in efdm12? Can they reach the pentagram, Quad, and ring of shadows? 
LH 
just a question, and it may be a frikbot problem rather than waypointing, but a few times I caught them stuck in wall corner. Happened a few times so it seems a frikbot bug but thought I would ask if you'd experienced it. 
 
Any particular map or corner? The Frikbots, like all bots, will sometimes get stuck - but it shouldn't ever be for very long. Now, there is one bug in their combat AI code where if they are following a set path on top of a ledge, see someone and jump down to attack them, they will sometimes try to get back up to the place they were at - resulting in them stuck on a wall for a few seconds. They always get back on track though. If you see them doing it constantly in one spot, then something is up. 
Ok 
another nav comparison
gmdm1
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/gmdm1_dem.rar

watch how many items the frogbot has picked up,
and watch how many the frik has.

Where can I get the modified 012c verson of the Frogbots? And can I use it in anything else but Quakeworld? I can only seem to find a QW version...
i made it for myself by mysekf from an origianl v012 src itis nq only version

Complicating maps include anything with hard to reach powerups, like ztnbase, damaul2, cmt1b, etc.. An example would be the pentagram in "Agent.bsp". Can the Frogbots obtain it? Can they use the secret teleporter in ztndm6? Can they It's rare that I come across a button-combo/item that the Frikbots cannot obtain.

i see, no the frogbot can't perform such acts
in fact there are actually no support for ztnbase,damaul2,cmt1b maps, but it can use the sec_tele in ztndm6
and anyway i'm playing with the powerups off.
the items that hard to reach to frogbot can be easely moved via qc hack ;) 
 
I'm not sure what you mean by, "watch how many times they have picked up", but it seems to me that both bots had pretty decent navigation in Gmdm1. The Frikbot got stuck once in the Wind tunnel - but not for long. The Frogbot fell in the slime once, but not for long. I agree, the Frogbot's are awesome - don't get me wrong. Just don't start calling your own little Frogbot modification the best. Both bots have their strengths and weaknesses.

Please don't rip apart the Frikbot when it's obvious they aren't terrible like you say they are. It is kind of rude to come into my project thread and start talking about things that are beyond my control. I spent ages creating these waypoints. If you find issues with my waypoints themselves, then I don't mind hearing about it. I don't mind fixing bugs with the waypoints. Heck, since you know how to code, why don't you improve the Frikbot code? I would LOVE it if someone gave them more human-like aim, or fixed a few of the bugs I've seen while waypointing. 
 
Just don't start calling your own little Frogbot modification the best
i have never did it ;)

It is kind of rude to come into my project thread and start talking about things that are beyond my control.

sorry, i didn't want to abuse you,

Heck, since you know how to code, why don't you improve the Frikbot code?
sorry, but my coding knowlege is not enough to
improve the Frikbot code, maybe frik could do it. i'm just stealing the code from here and there to paste it into theFrog. it is a really shame that frog himself has never completed his bot ((( 
 
sorry, i didn't want to abuse you

It's ok... I just don't like the feeling that I get when someone thinks my time and effort in creating these waypoints was wasted on a the wrong bot. I know these waypoints are about as good as they can get for the Frikbots, and I believe they do a damn good job of navigating some of the hardest maps. I probably could have made decent waypoints for the Frogbots too, but I chose the Frikbots because I felt they were very finished well-done bots for the most part. I still stand by my decision.

maybe frik could do it.

You mean Frika C? He's too busy these days. Believe me, I tried asking him. Hah. I can only hope for someone to pop up someday and fix a few of the bugs with the Frikbots. They really are my favorite bots in Quake, and I had a lot of fun creating these waypoints for them. 
LH 
p3a was the map I noticed it on, but I think your response about jumping down and trying to get to the same spot covers what I was talking about as that is usually when it happens.

cheers. 
 
Parboil made a great job in the FrogBot they play almost like a player... and they follow the objectives pretty well together, maps like cmt4 is pure fun on 4on4, but they don�t get penta :p

Anyway nice job Lightning_Hunter your objective wasn�t make bots better, was just to make a big waypoint pack like was did with frogbots some time ago Frogbots Big Pack
, but you did for NQ and FrogBot is for QW, so was necessary work for NQ player!

Well done cheers 
Wait A Minute 
The frogbot is worse than the frikbot. Am I missing something here? 
Frogbot Isn't QW Only 
Here is an NQ Frogbot download with support for the 120 maps Trinca waypointed for Quakeworld:

http://quakeone.com/proquake/frogbots-099.zip 
 
I know Baker, but Parboil improved frogbot AI a lot... this is the old version i think!

the bots dont play as good as Parboil last versions 
For Some Reason 
the baker's frogbot mod is crashes with PR_ExecuteProgram3: misaligned edict 0 error.
???

aguirRe's glquake.exe 
Runs In GLQuake, Fitz 0.85, Etc. 
Not sure why it doesn't run in Enhanced GLQuake.

If it runs in GLQuake and Fitz, then it isn't the fault of the mod. 
Well.. 
i think AguirRe's engines add additional error checking in the progs VM. So it could be a (potentially) bad thing in the progs.dat which most engines don't catch and rarely causes a crash. 
On The Other Hand... 
maybe it should just be a warning since it obviously doesn't crash most other engines. 
Waypoint Needed 
anyone can create hipdm1 waypoint for frikbot? 
 
Is that for the mission pack only? Do you have a link to the Frikbots + Hipnotic? I won't be able to make waypoints unless I can load up the Frikbots with that map.

Links and more information, and I can probably make it for you. :) 
 
Hi Koya. My number is 911-6874. Please call! 
Lightning_Hunter 
Hi, I have frikbot's progs.dat with hipnotic support.. Please see at http://eerie.anarxi.st/progs/ 
Mucked Around With This Some More 
this is a phenomenal job by LH, really I mean the amount of map support is incredible.

I'm not sold on the frikbot but glad to have had the chance to test it out this thoroughly. 
Bots 
Is LH still around? Was curious if any new maps got added to the rotation. I also found a new DM map that I want to make ways for Frikbot, but the system looks complex. Anyone here got tips on the best ways to waypoint a new map?

As for Frogbot, that DL link still works, however the progs.dat in there gives ne an error on makevectors when the engine tries to run it. Is that mod QW only? 
 
LH occasionally still shows up at quakeone.com.

Frogbots are generally used for QW, although Baker did make a NQ version of Frogbot Clan Arena a while back: http://quakeone.com/proquake/frogbots-099.zip 
Teknoskillz 
Have you tried Omicrom bots? They are quite good and do not need way points generated (although you can optionally.) I could not get the Frikbots waypoint editor to work in Quakespasm or Darkplaces so I gave up on them.

http://mrelusive.com/oldprojects/obots/obots.html 
FBCA 
-099.zip, thats the one that crashes darkplaces engine on a makevectors problem. SRC wont compile because it seems the numpr_globals has been reached. Im using a newer verion of FTE compiler.

I did find an older version - fbca092kt, which does work ok. Frogbot sure does seem like it "cheats". Not sure if its the code, but it decided to spam me with grenades when I was hiding unseen just below the bot..angled in a bunch of grenades on a whim I guess?

Too bad Bakers not continuing with it, if I knew how to port Frogbot into other mode, you can possibly have more than one kind of bot opponent.

Omnibots, yes, I have them. I also contacted Mr Elusive a while ago, he says hes got no src code and is not interested in Q anymore apparently

:( 
If Only We Could 
code in bot pathing when we compile the map. I would love this level of support, like how you do it in UT '99 
Fifth 
There must be a way to read an entity class from .map, say an info_fbca_waypoint, to generate this .qc
That way, the level designer could set waypoints and generating FBCA data would be part of the map compilation. This is how it should be done for new levels or ones you have the .map


I posted it at quakeworld.nu months ago, but I don't think there are programmers there.

A tool would parse the map to get the entities, and generate a QC source. The map compilation batch/chain would do the rest. Is it possible? 
 
I have no idea whats possible. It would be lovely though if there was a way bot's were set up that had its own entity set that you can stick in the map file and compile it all together and just work. UT 99 had all these little apple things like path_corners that, if close enough together, the bots would follow like bread crumbs to each item. The bots were even smart enough to understand how to get to an item it wanted by following the bread crumbs to the item. Steve Polge is clearly a genius, it's just a shame that the Reaper Bot was never fully realised before he was stolen away to work at Epic. 
 
I have no idea whats possible. It would be lovely though if there was a way bot's were set up that had its own entity set that you can stick in the map file and compile it all together and just work. UT 99 had all these little apple things like path_corners that, if close enough together, the bots would follow like bread crumbs to each item. The bots were even smart enough to understand how to get to an item it wanted by following the bread crumbs to the item. Steve Polge is clearly a genius, it's just a shame that the Reaper Bot was never fully realised before he was stolen away to work at Epic. 
@Teknoskillz 
that mod has a LOT of vector immediates hardcoded. those immediates alone overflow the 65k globals limit.

fteqcc does have a feature that separates vector immediates into components, which allows them to be overlapped much more efficiently.
just add -Ovc on the commandline (or enable the 'vectorcalls' optimisation in the ui).
this will _massively_ reduce the number of globals needed in fbca, allowing it to fit within the limits imposed by the 16bit file format. the result will be less efficient, so only use it if you actually need it.


regarding parsing .maps to generate .qc files, it'd be better to just directly parse the entities lump from the mod...
of course, this might require some sort of actual cross-bot standard...
on the plus side, you wouldn't need to create a new version of the mod for each new map. 
 
Frogbot sure does seem like it "cheats". Not sure if its the code, but it decided to spam me with grenades when I was hiding unseen just below the bot..angled in a bunch of grenades on a whim I guess?

Definitely this is not a cheat, it's called 'prediction' 
Prediction 
So are you saying that it keeps track of every single client's positions, and if it does not see
the client after a certain period of time, it "takes a guess"? True the bot was not busy in combat, but as I moved to avoid the grenades, the aim seemed to adjust as if it knew what I was doing. 
Yeah 
its a common bot behavior since 0.13 ver. (prediction)
as a bot is trying to find the other client via makers zone(s) it always know where you hiding(running)

frogbot likes to throw grenades into the respawning spots and tele_dest just in case

theres a 'shot for luck' too, that's been added by some other modder 
Makers == Markers 
 
Frikbot 
Got a curious issue with my Frikbots. I ported them to work in Darkplaces using the new SpawnClient () built in so they dont need the included scoreboard logic. Seems they work great except once in a while, a map loads...its got waypoints, but the bots just stay put as if they dont wee the waypoints. Most the time a chengelevel command of the same map gets them going again. I thought maybe move the localcmd that loads the .way and wa1,wa2 files into startframe a few counts outside worldspawn would help, and it seems to but still the bots hang. Im using a olv version of Frikbot, I think its Frikbot 0.09b, or some of its functions are. Other functions may be Frikbot_X but Im not sure. 
Fixed ! 
Ok, this was one tough. Turns out I had to delay the function DynamicWaypoint() until framecount > 30. The regular ID maps, DM1-6 all use hard coded QC waypoints and these never fail, so I guess its something to do with the way files loading and perhaps multiple way / wa1..wa2 files that take longer.

I also found a good array of original ID map waypoint files in the last version of Frikbot_x. They mostly seem to work pretty well, except e1m2 has a problem where they always stop at the func_button near the grenade launcher. Any ideas on how to fix that issue? 
Create Waypoints? 
Ok, someone had said that all you do is just play and the waypoints get created by themselves? I dont seem to be able to locate that if its a seperate cvar or something? I did see impulse 104 brings up the editor, and I started to make some ways for a map, but seems this process can be kinda complex. Wasnt there a video or a tut showing how to make the waypoints someplace? 
They Need To 
Be made by hand, there's no automated system. 
 
Which makes this pack all the more impressive. 
It's 
pretty fun once you get into it, and the barrier to entry isn't so high.

The internal menu is pretty straight forward, the only tricky bit being dumping out the data to a legible .way format with -condebug.

A one time pipe dream was applying this to monsters. Not giving them bot strafing and stuff, just allowing them to navigate a level with it, if patrolling for example.

Which would allow them to patrol across lifts etc. anywhere you didn't want them to go, you just don't set up waypoints. 
 
That's a cool idea. It would also allow monsters to look more intelligent as they chase you down or whatever .. instead of randomly running into walls and feeling their way along like they're blind. 
And In Theory 
Not 'that' hard to implement either. The biggest task when setting up a node graph system like this is the legwork of creating the nodes and mapping them to your level.

But that's already been done! 
 
Waypoints should be something you can do in the editor 
If My Grandma Had A Beard She'd Be My Grandad 
In theory yes, but the waypoint in engine editor is actually pretty nice to use. Running around the map while setting it up also gives you a different viewpoint on where they should be. 
Condebug 
Always thought it was odd he opted to dump the ways like that and thought using Frikfile to just save them as files would have been alot better. Frikfile has been a engine built-in for a long while, so ought not be hard to do.

However I find the internal editor could use some improvements. For example linking ways, seems like you can spawn a way and not link it? What good is a non linked way to anything? Will the bot see it or only see it when all else fails? Things like that are unclear.

Also would anyone know how to fix that issue with the e1m2 way, makling the bot just hang out near the button near the gl ? 
 
i think frikbot far predates frikfile. 
Ways 
Well, apparently the version I am using DOES lay waypoints on empty maps as you move around the map that otherwise has none. I may have an older "B" version of the Frikbot here, I wanna say 0.2B ? Maybe the system is different on the older versions?

At any rate, I was able to dump them to a .way and .wa1 type file. They load ok on map load, however the bots dont react to them. At one point they seemed to, when I drew them out of the spawns for combat, but somethings not working - ugh. 
Some Progress 
So I found this code in bot_ed was commented out.

===============================================
if (cvar("pr_checkextension"))
{
if (checkextension("FRIK_FILE"))
SaveWays();

self.b_menu = 17;
self.b_menu_time = time;
}
=====================================
Uncommenting it seems to have let me save the ways using Frikfile at least.


However the bots still dont navigate on the map like they have the routes configured correctly, they seem to navigate, then stop, and some ways that I thought would be made never did get made.

Was also wondering if this code is maybe rounding the values down , in some cases isolating the waypoints so they cant be linked?

============================================
// 2001-09-10 FrikBot support by FrikaC/Maddes start
t.origin_x = rint(t.origin_x);
t.origin_y = rint(t.origin_y);
t.origin_z = rint(t.origin_z);
// 2001-09-10 FrikBot support by FrikaC/Maddes end
============================================= 
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