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Quakespasm Engine
This engine needs its own thread.

Feedback: I like the OS X version, but I have to start it from the terminal for it to work and can't just double-click it like a traditional OS X app. I'm sure you guys already know this, either way great engine.
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basically the video shows
game custom
timedemo demo2
host error: progs/player.mdl not found

game custom
exec config.cfg
timedemo demo2
host error: progs/player.mdl not found
game id1
weird my other machine doesnt do it :/ 
Ah Good. 
I reproduced the crash here on windows with the 32 bit QS build, so it's indeed just those 2 config files that are doing it. thanks, will investigate. 
...that in hardware accelerated versions of Quake, mipmap level selection is not normally something that the programmer has control over; this is done by fixed function components in the graphics hardware.

Looks like it was first exposed to the programmer with textureLod in GLSL 1.30 / OpenGL 3? 
You could probably brute-force it on older hardware by storing each miplevel as a separate texture. Performance would be horrible though. 
Speaking Of Texture Aliasing 
Supersampling makes unfiltered textures look gorgeous and not flicker at all. Consider adding such an option. 
Up close or far away?

The thing about far way textures sparking is that it's basic mathematics. You have one pixel on the screen, and when the texture is sampled - either via nearest or linear, doesn't matter which - you're sampling more texels than will fit in that one pixel. Then when the scene shifts a little (like with regular Quake idle movement, or water warping, or whatever) the texels being sampled jump around.

This is basic sampling theory stuff; it shouldn't be necessary to explain it, it's been mathematically proven for donkey's years. 
The supersampling in vkQuake works both up close and far away. The far away flickering was always bothering me and I would begrudgingly turn the texture filtering back on, but with this kind of supersampling you get the best of both worlds, the textures never flicker at the distance, and at the same time don't get blurred up close. Works great even at 4x supersampling with little to no performance hit. Black magic! 
Just to clarify...

Far away flickering is not caused by texture filtering or no texture filtering.

It's caused by not using mipmaps.

You can disable texture filtering and use mipmaps.

gl_texturemode GL_NEAREST_MIPMAP_NEAREST will disable texture filtering but use mipmaps, and will hugely minimize far-away flickering. This is the nearest you'll get to software Quake without custom shaders to more closely replicate it.

gl_texturemode GL_NEAREST_MIPMAP_LINEAR is slightly higher quality. It also disables texture filtering but will interpolate between miplevels, so you don't get jarring transitions between different miplevels as you move about a map.

I'd strongly encourage you to use the built-in modes properly and see if they actually do meet your requirements. It's an unfortunate piece of Quake "lore" over the past 20 years that gl_texturemode GL_NEAREST is the correct "software Quake" mode, and Quake "lore" is full of flat-out wrong bullshit like this. 
I'm sorry that I didn't make this clear, but of course I'm using mipmaps (GL_NEAREST_MIPMAP_LINEAR). Still, it causes quite a bit of aliasing compared to GL_LINEAR_MIPMAP_LINEAR, e.g. when looking at the textures with horizontal lines (like base walls) at an angle and moving back and forth. Supersampling seems to fix this issue. 
You can just enable DSR (nvida) or VSR (AMD) in your video card control panel. 
I'm sorry that I didn't make this clear, but of course I'm using mipmaps...
Ah, OK, my apologies.

I guess this is one of those "different things drive different people nuts" things then. I personally accept a bit of aliasing as part of the tradeoff to achieve the crunchy pixel look, and even expect it as a feature of that look. 
Yeah, I can understand that. WinQuake has tons of aliasing, all over the place, and maybe that's part of its charm, but having crisp sharp unfiltered textures with zero aliasing is also very, very appealing and it's something that couldn't be achieved on the hardware back then, so it feels more like an upgrade than a step back. Just my personal preference, at any rate. 
Is merely a result of using a screen with too low a resolution at too close a viewing distance (dpi vs viewing distance). 
yeah just get a 4k display! 
thanks! GL_NEAREST_MIPMAP_LINEAR is the perfect balance i was looking for. Too long i was using gl_linear_mipmap_linear and the scene on large maps just looked blurry far away, (thought might feel like GTA-V), lol

small maps like the dm maps it looks perfect like standard true grit Quake :) 
Quake Grit 
Experiencing A Bug 
On the map E1M3(The Necropolis) at the end right before the fight for the exit gate, the lift has a bug. About half way up the lift I get hurt for no apparent reason(HP going from 100 to 45) and the lift goes back down.

I am running Windows XP x86, Intel E6550, 2GB RAM, Geforce GTX 550 Ti 
host_maxfps is probably set above 72 - setting it back to 72 should fix the physics glitch. 
Feature list sounds great, congrats!

Find ;-) WinQuake gun pos ;-) Alpha .mdl texture masking, not that anyone will ever use it because about no one is capable of making models these days but should someone arise, it is available which is nice. PNG shots ;-) Having actually Quake-correct always run ;-)

1. gethostbyname -- has no purpose in the engine at all.

2. Steal r_viewmodel_fov -- sheesh! It's been nearly 6 years Mark V has had that barely 8 lines of code feature -- maybe be slightly more complex in QS, but seriously. No excuses. It's rather unacceptable Quakespasm does not have that feature, in all seriousness.

3. Maybe make a Con_Print when someone changes maxfps away from 72 do a message "This may cause physics glitches, missed triggers and killer elevators". Because clearly people post the same damn thing 80 times per year.

Anyway, I quite like the change list! 
No Idea 
What r view model fov does 
if ( Cvar_SetValue ("host_maxfps", 72);

Obviously it would be nice to fully decouple the timers, then work over the client code and fix up all the FPS-dependent stuff properly, but in the absence of that surely we're past the point where the disadvantages far outweigh the advantages? 
Decoupling these things is a huge task if I recall which is why no one has done it yet 
Mark V? 
recent release attempted this IIRC

Could you tweak the physics (or damage) code to behave better at those higher rates? 
Could you tweak the physics (or damage) code to behave better at those higher rates?

This isn't something that's a simple tweak otherwise it would have been done long ago, everybody would be using it now, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

This is something that we've all been aware of for almost 20 years - at least ever since the Quake source release and early attempts at implementing maxfps. But yet people still continue to report it as though it were a new bug several times per year. 
But yet people still continue to report it as though it were a new bug several times per year.

Well that's because we're not omniscient. 
QuakeSpasm 2 
Hello. There is any plans to do the same port for Quake 2? I'd like to play it very much, cuz there is no such a port for Quake 2 like QuakeSpasm. There is only unofficial patch, but it's not enough - the mouse input is very shitty, no support for all keybuttons in controls options etc. I hope you will do it, as I know, the Q1 and Q2 engines are very similar. 
Here you have similar project for Quake2: 
Can you make QS default to gl_flashblend 0? Unless you already have... 
Yes, it's been the default for several versions (iirc since 2014-ish) 
Slightly Confused 
This may have already been discussed to death, but I'm just returning from not having played Quake in a few months and saw QS got to 0.93.0. How similar is this release to QSS? I've been using QSS or the AD version for pretty much everything since Sepulcher came out. Can 0.93.0 do pretty much everything QSS does? Which should I use for normal play? 
Only One Teleporter Effect? 
I'm running latest SVN code on Linux. I notice that when several enemies teleport in, only one teleport effect is displayed, while the other enemies just pop in. Is this normal? 
QSS is a separate fork/experimental build and QS 0.93 doesn't include any of its features. Perhaps for the best. 
I'm running latest SVN code on Linux. I notice that when several enemies teleport in, only one teleport effect is displayed, while the other enemies just pop in. Is this normal?

You would get this result on virtually any Quake client, going back to the original engines from 1996.

The teleport splash spawns almost 900 particles, whereas the engine by default will only support up to 2048. I suggest that there's something else spawning particles, or an enemy teleporting behind you where you can't see it's particles.

Run with -particles ### where ### is some number higher than 2048 to support more particles. 
@SavageX certainly not an intentional change. Could you try 0.92.1? 
Running Into Particle Limit 
@mh: Thanks, that's it! Increasing the particle limit fixes this!

@ericw: Tested this in 0.92.1 as requested. It behaves the same (and according to design).

I wonder if bumping the default particle limit makes sense. Are particle emitters sorted by player distance regarding priority or is it "random" which emitters starve? 
Quake doesn't really have a concept of particle emitters as such. Particles are just moved from a free list to an active list as required, then returned to the free list when they expire, with no sorting.

Individual particles in an effect may expire at different times, and when you run out of free particles that's it, no more particles until enough expire.

So if there are, say, 5 teleport splashes spawned, the first two will get 896 particles each, the third will get 256, the last two will get none.

It's easy enough to extend the number of particles to effectively infinite engine-side: just Hunk_Alloc (and initialize) another batch when you run out. Add some tidy-up code for map changes and it's done.

It's always seemed odd to me that QS hasn't already done this, particularly given the number of effects even in stock ID1 Quake that use up so many.

By comparison, Quake II bumps MAX_PARTICLES to 4096 but IIRC even that isn't enough for stock ID1 Quake; there are some scenes in demo1 that can go over 5000. 
#3175 @sevin
I've updated the windows builds of qss to merge in the latest qs changes... And FINALLY fixed a couple of bugs in qss-r7, so quoth shouldn't bug out any more (is the theory). 
And I thought Spikedspasm was a dead end fork.

"And I Thought Spikedspasm Was A Dead End Fork." 

QS_Spike version is my Quake version of choice. Long live Spike! 
we need an MacOS version of QSS!!! :-) 
Quick Query 
And FINALLY fixed a couple of bugs in qss-r7, so quoth shouldn't bug out any more (is the theory)

That's cool, but were we doing something especially weird or dodgy that provoked this? Like the ultra-high fps "bug" that keeps being reinvented, if it happened to your engine it might happen to others, and I'd like to programme defensively if so. 
sorry, I should have phrased that better. That bug was totally my fault, and it happened on more maps than just quoth's ones.

(I was trying to be clever by auto-precaching any model named by a model field, so that mappers could do interesting hacky things. the real issue being that I got the code wrong and the server ended up reading random tempstrings instead.
Even without that it would have broken saved games though, so now you need '_precache_model' instead, or alternatively you can set modelindex to a non-numeric value, which might be useful if you're trying to bypass the lack of a setmodel. its nice to have options, or something) 
Vore In The End Bug

WTF?! :) Sometimes (often) last Vore teleports in the player at the end titles. I don't remember this bug in original game. 
Killing The Vore 
You've probably just got faster at completing the level, and leave a vore alive more often. The teleporter at the end isn't flagged "player only" so if the vore's alive on the final ledge then it can walk towards the camera and hit the tele. 
Can "qss-r7" Fully Replace AD Sepulcher's "quakespasm-spike-admod"? 
Before I overwrite I'd like to know ;)

Thanks in advance. 
Afaik No 
I think qss-r7 is older and lacks some fixes needed to run ad_sepulcher.
btw QSS homepage is and there is an r8+ released recently. 
I Meant R8+ , Grrr... 
QSS R8+ 
I quicky tried it yesterday and AD Sepulcher seem to run as good as with the ADMod version of QSS. Unfortunately no chance at the moment for a deeper test session.
Only thing that is missing is the possibility to select the mod to play directly in game main menu. 
Changed Controller Settings? 
I haven't been able to play QS in a while. I play with a controller but it seems that movement is more twitchy than it used to be.

Of course, Windows 10 has updated a million times since I last played which broke my controller until I updated its drivers - SCPToolkit. Thus, I'm not sure if the change is in the drivers or Quakespasm...

Just so you know, behaviour hasn't changed in any other game. :) 
The only default that has changed since June 2016 is L/R trigger deadzone, because the shoot/jump keys were getting stuck sometimes.

Maybe try deleting the joy_* cvars from you config.cfg's in case they got changed at some point.
Here's the manual section on the controller cvars if you need to tweak them: 
Any idea why SDL 1.2 and SDL 2 treat mouse buttons differently? Between the two versions my mouses thumb buttons are 4 & 5 in SDL2, but 8 and 9 in SDL1.2.

Not a big issue, it just means another rebind, was just curious about the logic. (am using linux btw) 
Thanks for the reply, Eric. I tried your suggestion but to no avail. That put Quakespasm being the issue to bed. I uninstalled SCPToolkit, installed DS4Windows and all is back to normal.

Again, thanks for your help. :) 
More Granularity In Analogue Movement? 
Sorry to harp on about controller stuff, Eric, but I have a request if it's possible.

Though there is change in player movement speed depending on how far one pushes the left analogue stick it would be nice if there was more nuance to it.

I don't know the technical term for it but I feel the movement should ramp up smoother across a greater range of the stick. Right now, it's a little twitchy for precision jumping and the like.

The right stick for looking is great though.

A slider in the menu would be perfect but even a CVAR (or is there already one that I've missed?!) would be nice.

Hope you're having a lovely Christmas. :) 
Hmm.. it looks like the only cvar for controlling the movement stick is "joy_exponent", default 3. But, that also affects the look stick as well.

Try lowering it to 2 or 1. 1 will give you linear mapping from stick travel to movement speed.

I can probably split this into 2 cvars if it turns out you need different values for the move and look sticks. There is no menu page for any of this, would be a good idea probably.
Thanks and merry Christmas as well! 
Thanks. :) 
Setting the joy_exponent to 1 made a big difference to movement. However, like you suspected the effect is too heavy handed for looking. Would it be possible to split it into 2 CVARS?

I reckon setting them to 1 and 3 would be pretty perfect in terms of map navigation and aiming. At least, for me.

Also, I just want to say thank you for always responding in an interested and polite manner. I can't tell you how refreshing it is not having a dev respond with eye rolling or "code it yourself, noob". I enjoy playing another old FPS and I dread asking questions about that source port. Again, thanks for allowing me the space to 'just' be a player and not a mapper, modder or coder. :) 
Hey guys, thanks for the great work you're doing.

I tried running heavy mods like AD with Quakespasm, experienced not-so-high-fps. Which features can I disable (or use some commands) for any fps boost? 
• Reduce video resolution
• Play on a computer made after the year 2010. 
Be aware that the physics breaks above 72 fps. So if your standard is ultra-smooth 144 fps you're going to be disappointed. 
Can't find the tools thread (I suck) ... didn't want to kill joy in a new release thread.

"Fix MarkV .lit rendering (do the color->greyscale conversion in a way that forces MarkV, FTEQW to render identically to Fitzquake, Quakespasm) "

That's is completely inaccurate description. The external .lit file is just covering up the evidence.

If you would load a map that suffers the issue in GLQuake or WinQuake it would look all wrong too, so there was a majorly serious issue there with the .bsp having lit data that didn't resemble the data in the external .lit file.

I am hoping you already know this and expect you do.

Back a few years ago when Spike explained the rationale behind FTEQW's .lit method, the logical was so sound and impactful that it was clear it was the "right" way to do things.

Posted here so I don't killjoy your release thread.

Pritchard should get beta tester MVP trophy. 
Most Valuable Pritchard 
What, for noticing that the lighting was buggered?

I don't know what the best solution is for .lit compatibility is but it might still be this one - having maps look different in different engines sucks so being able to make everything look the same is very valuable. It would be a lot harder to coordinate this between each individual engine I imagine... 
In AD you can try disabling the custom particle system. QS doesn't sort or batch sprites so this can be still a bottleneck.

IIRC there's an impulse command for it docemented in one of the readmes.

Be aware that at some point in the future a version of QS might exist that does batch sprites, so this bottleneck might go away and "disable particles for higher performance" would no longer be good advice. 
Can't one set vid_refreshrate "144" and host_maxfps "72" for a smooth frame rate without tearing and breaking the games physics? I thought that's what these CVARS were for... I could be wrong, though, as I'm pretty ignorant to most settings for Quake! 
Interesting comparison of model light levels across WinQuake, QS and FTE: 
Possible Bug 
Nice port, I'm really sorry that my first post is gonna be a bug report. Previous Weapon doesn't seem to work, no matter what I assign to it. Next Weapon does work though. Also, when assigning a key to an action (when the equals sign appears) moving the mouse acts as if using it to point (as in moving the camera). Besides that, it's a great port, really faithfull to GLQuake. 
The "Previous Weapon" feature is a function of the gamecode in your pak files, not something that the engine does (normally). It sounds like your pak files are not the final ones that were released for Quake. Sooooo... where did you get them from? Is it from the Quake demo, or an early run of the Quake CD? 
Which Mod? 
True, it could also be from playing an old mod. 
The .paks are from my CD. Someone else told me about the .pak thing today elsewhere. The weird thing is the same using the same .paks in MarkV doesn't give me this problem. 
MarkV can add "previous weapon" (impulse 12) even if the mod doesn't have it / you are not running the latest patch version of the pak0.pak/pak1.pak. 
Replace pak0.pak (the one that's the same in shareware and regular Quake) in your Quake directory with the latest version (1.06, available here) and you should be good.

Pak1.pak shouldn't need to be updated to the best of my knowledge. 
It was indeed the pak0.pak. Man, my CD must be old. 
Collectible! :-) 
0.93 "has stopped working" when trying to load death32c.bsp 
reproduced it. 
Getting Stuck On Buttons 
64-bit builds (tested on windows, probably linux/mac also) have a bug where the player gets stuck on buttons that move at an angle:

I don't have a fix yet, but it's 99% likely the same as past 64-bit bugs (code assuming x87 math with 80-bit temporaries for floats) and should be quick to fix.

We'll do a 0.93.1 bugfix release sometime soon with this, a fog bug fix - , and the death32c.bsp crash (vis data overflow). 
Does That Allow For Alpha Values Below 0.666 On {fence Brushes? 
Do you know if any engines with fence textures implement it?
I'm assuming it would just need to use (0.666 * entity_alpha) as the alpha mask cutoff, instead of always using 0.666? 
Not That I Know Of, Twould Be Great For Ground Fog 
Currently you can have a func_illusionary using a fence texture and set the alpha to any value between 0.666 and 1.0, but below that it just dissappears.

I think it is just an arbitrary hardcoded threshhold. If it is necessary to have a threshhold, having it at 0.09 would be preferable. I haven't done an engine comparison for it.

Could be the thresshold has something to do with support for alpha channels (e.g. on png) instead of just the pink palette value 255, but not really sure on that point. 
My understanding is, the 0.666 threshold only comes into play when you use texture filtering - the actual pixels of the fence texture only have alpha of 0 or 1, the texture filtering interpolates between these, and then the fragment shader converts the interpolated value back to 0 or 1, depending on whether it's less than the threshold or not. So the specific threshold will control how big the fringe is around spites / fences.

The "(0.666 * entity_alpha)" sounds right to me, it's just something that should have a test map + screenshots, maybe with 0.25, 0.5, 0.75, 1.0 entity alpha on a fence texture. 
Lower alpha values will cause edges of fences to become faded, blurry or hazy, which is a very undesirable artefact. If you want to achieve a specific effect it's better to open a discussion about it, rather than trying to overload an existing effect in unintended ways. 
Quakespasm Gamepad Problem With Menu 
I am trying QuakeSpasm with a Dualshock 4v2 connected to Steam Link (so it appears as an xinput device to the game, afaik). The controller works, but there is a very odd problem: there is seeminly no way to "enter" any menu. I can enter/exit the main menu, navigate it, but not actually enter any of the menu options with any gamepad buttons.

And a feature request if I may: would it be possible to add an in-game mod and map browser/launcher?

Suggestion:implement Quakeworld style HUD option from this branch. 
HUD Request 
I enthusiastically second this idea. Even if it's just a console cmd and not in the menu I prefer this HUD to NQ version. 
Transparent {fence Textures 
Please see this:

I had the idea one day to mix alpha and {fence to make ground fog. It looks neat in the editor, but it doesn't work in-game. It would be really cool to mix this type of effect with some non-solid func_train's, func_bob's, etc.

I still don't understand why it doesn't work below 0.666.

Cross Engine Testing:
FTE: Does not support alpha on {fence textured faces. Side note: fence rendering has weird ugly black edges.
Mark V: Same as QS. Side note: the Pixelated/Rough mode looks best for fence edges (not related to the alpha). Not sure if this is just disabling mipmapping or what.
DarkPlaces: The old version I have doesn't support either {fence or alpha.
All other engine versions are the most current. 
I can enter/exit the main menu, navigate it, but not actually enter any of the menu options with any gamepad buttons.

The A and B buttons are hardcoded to select menu items / go back a screen. If A/B are not working, it means something failed at a lower level than Quakespasm (probably SDL2's controller mapping).

Does it help if you download this file and put it in your quake directory?
It should enable more controllers.

re: mod menu and bangstk's changes, both things I have been meaning to get to 
I still don't understand why it doesn't work below 0.666.

Because GLQuake sets this at startup:

<p>glAlphaFunc(GL_GREATER, 0.666);</p>

Meaning that when the alpha test stage is enabled, anything with an alpha of less than 0.666 is discarded.

Fences are drawn with alpha test enabled, so that's why it doesn't work. 
Is there still use for the SDL1 version? Just curious about why that variant is still included in the package. 
Not much significant - audio CD support, win 9x support. 
502 Bad Gateway? 
Hey Eric. I periodically update through your nightly builds page found here:


but the page has been giving a 502 error. Just thought I'd let you know in case you were unaware. :) 
Thanks HipnoticRogue, Fixed 
Screen Refresh/FPS Question 
If I set the game (in-menu) to 60 or 120 the game runs smooth as butter. If I use the built-in FPS counter the game reports 60 fps. All well and good.

If I set the game to 144 (my monitors refresh rate) the game hitches ever so slightly every few frames. When I check the FPS counter it only reports 71 fps. I have Host_maxfps set to 72. Shouldn't the game report 72 fps?

Regardless of what I do I get screen tearing unless vsync is on. At 60 fps there's a very noticeable lag in movement (I use a controller). The lag's not so bad at 71 fps but, like I say, there's that slight hitch which drives me insane!

I've tried using gl_triplebuffer set to "0" and "1" but neither seems to make any difference regardless of whether vsync is on or not.

Is there an issue with 72 fps or do I just have to live with the slight stutter?

I haven't reported it as a bug because nobody else has mentioned this 'issue' and I'm not sure if it's user error or an engine limitation... 
You're not the only one. A lot of people experience the same thing at 72. Even at 250 it feels like shit. Chew it down son. It's the recommended quake experience. 
You're not the only one. A lot of people experience the same thing at 72. Even at 250 it feels like shit. Chew it down son. It's the recommended quake experience. 
can u fix the double click thing? 
@Hipnotic Rogue 
I think QS's vsync implementation is broken, in that it doesn't disable the regular frame throttling code so sometimes you will get stutters. I would recommend avoiding vsync right now.

It sounds like you get hitching with vsync off as well, at 144Hz?

One hack you can try is "sys_throttle 0" - this will make QS use 100% CPU instead of sleeping (the default is 0.02).

If there's stuff we can do to make this better I am interested. I'm hoping to get a 144Hz monitor some time this spring as well. :-) 
@Hipnotic Rogue 
I think QS's vsync implementation is broken, in that it doesn't disable the regular frame throttling code so sometimes you will get stutters. I would recommend avoiding vsync right now.

It sounds like you get hitching with vsync off as well, at 144Hz?

One hack you can try is "sys_throttle 0" - this will make QS use 100% CPU instead of sleeping (the default is 0.02).

If there's stuff we can do to make this better I am interested. I'm hoping to get a 144Hz monitor some time this spring as well. :-) 
I've set sys_throttle to 0 but there's no change that I can discern.

It's not hitching as such at 144 Hz with vsync off. The 'hitched' frame (for want of a better term) tears instead. It's regular as clockwork just as the hitched frame would be with vsync on.

Is there anything else I could try for you or any more info you need just now? 
sounds like you want SDL_GL_SetSwapInterval 2 instead of 1, or ideally -2 (to enable swap_tear when timings slip a little).
The interval in question is measured in terms of buffer swaps, so 2 means that it'll run at 72fps on a screen running at 144hz.

Regarding host_maxfps timings - quakespasm uses milliseconds for timing - and rounding down means it needs to wait a little longer before the next frame.
This alternative will give more accurate host_maxfps:
double Sys_DoubleTime (void)
return SDL_GetPerformanceCounter() / (long double)SDL_GetPerformanceFrequency();
But do note that it might misbehave on certain/old dual core machines that lack drivers to resync cpu timers.
And ideally you'd rebase the counter to 0 to reduce fpu precision problems, but they.

Regarding nvidia, (at least for me) vsync is broken in their opengl drivers when the program (otherwise) runs at about 1000fps. Crossing that boundary (relative to the previous frame) results in a noticeable stutter. Enabling something wasteful like bloom seems to help, thanks to it no longer drawing frames in 0ms...

tl;dr version: timers suck. 
host_maxfps has lots of subtle little interactions beyond just wonky physics and killer elevators.

Particle trails have been touched on before; here's another one that many people might not be aware of.

Record a demo of you running around in a map for a minute or so at host_maxfps 72.

Record another demo of you doing the same run-around in the same map at host_maxfps 1000.

Compare the file sizes.

Interesting, isn't it? 
Quakespasm On Steam? 
For free. Why not? 
There's probably some legal shenanigans about distributing shareware Quake as part of another piece of software. Do you really want to read 17 pages of people who installed a sourceport without a game to play and are all copypasting the same gfx.wad not found error? 
I'm assuming there's a way to ensure Quake is installed before launching. Similar to DLC. I dunno. 
Can anyone explain why Quake monster models occasionally turn black? I'd guess it's a lighting bug in the Quake engine but if anyone could give more detail as to why. I remember seeing this especially with the Scrag model. 
Quake models get their lighting from the ground directly below them. If they pass over a bit of ground in total darkness, they go black.

Scrags sometimes fly over pits with pitch black bottoms far below them, and they thus turn black. Which is ugly. 
Following From That 
I kinda wish Quake used a 3d "light grid" like Quake 3 does for model lighting. People would probably be more inclined to make mdl props if the lighting was more accurate. 
And if there wasnt a 256^3 unit limit on size per frame. 
Don't models also only poll light from a fixed distance down? If they're too high up in the air they won't be lit regardless of what's below, iirc. 
I Thought Flying Monsters Used Lightsource Data Same As Viewmodels 
I'm not sure if you're actually looking for a solution to it, maiden, and maybe this belongs more in Mapping Help, but there is a workaround for dark flying enemies.

At the very bottom of the area in question, use an ordinary texture, and light it adequately, for example with the texture light option in ericw's compile tools. A short distance above that put a brush entity, like a func_illusionary or func_wall, that has the visual you want, like the solid BLACK texture. Enemies will pick up the lighting info from the solid world geometry underneath the fake surface, but players will only see the brush entity. A func_wall will also have the effect of making the surface solid, so if a player dies their head camera won't fall through.

I used this trick in my Xmas Jam map, xmasjam_tens, and although I used a solid gray texture, the principle is the same. I did have to tweak the lights to prevent the lower edge of the world from being brightly lit, but with eric's light options I was able to set the surface light's '_surface_offset' key to a negative value (in my case -2048). The surface got enough light to make entities above it visible, but the lower edge of all my rockwork is no more prominently lit than the rest of it. I almost didn't expect it to work, but it seemed to, so I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. If you want to take a look, my source .map file is included in the Jam release like everyone else's. The light entity I used for the surface light is sitting just atop the starting crate, at 296 248 -112.

There's also sock's ad_sepulcher. There's a cavern area with a bridge, which triggers a mini earthquake when you walk over it. Search for a bunch of entities with the targetname "cavebridge_setup", they're all in that space. Look down at the bottom of the pit and you'll see an approach similar to mine. First is a func_detail_illusionary to provide the visual impression of a bottomless pit, but underneath is just regular world geometry, with ordinary textures. There's a few lights with their 'mangle' key set to make them spot lights, pointing down, so they only illuminate the extreme floor and don't break the illusion of endless blackness.

I'm sure other mappers have examples of this too, it's an old trick, but those two are the only ones I can remember off the top of my head. 
Winquake traced up to 2048 below the mdl, QS traces 8192 units. The code is in R_LightPoint:

First is a func_detail_illusionary to provide the visual impression of a bottomless pit, but underneath is just regular world geometry, with ordinary textures.
Weird, I don't know why this worked, because the raytrace in R_LightPoint should have hit the func_detail_illusionary and picked that up instead of the lighting below it. Regular func_illusionary is safe though.

Btw, with my tools, you can set _minlight and _minlight_exclude on world brushes with func_group or func_detail - this could be a handy way to make the hidden brushes have the desired light value, without having to bother setting up spotlights pointing down. 
Thanks for the feedback mates. I was just curious what causes the ugly-looking effect. Good to know it's not a bug at all.

If I ever dab at mapping I'll be sure to employ your workaround... :) 
I'm just going by what's in the 1.70 source files. Though looking at the map again in QS 0.93.0, Scrags flying over the pit do look kind of dark, so maybe it doesn't actually work? Hard to tell, honestly. You'd have to ask sock for more info, maybe there's more to it than meets the (or at least my) eye.

I'll be sure to fiddle with that minlight exclude key, sounds intriguing!

Glad I could help! More Quake mappers is always a good thing, you'll certainly be welcome if you decide to join in one day. 
Controller Movement Tweak 
I added a "joy_exponent_move" cvar for controlling the move stick's mapping curve. Previously it was hardcoded as linear.. which translated to feeling twitchy (as Hipnotic Rogue was mentioing in ##3198)

I went with a new default of 3 (matching the "look" stick).. now you have to press the stuck further to get full speed, but it's easier to move slowly. The "look" stick is unchanged.

Wonder if any controller users could give me a second opinion on this in the dev build? 
Cool Beans! 
I'll give it a test run after work and get back to you. :) 
As Will I 
Huge Improvement! 
I've been messing around and setting the joy_exponent_move CVAR at lots of different values just to see the difference. I reckon you were on the money with setting it at "3" though. :)

Slow and small movements now feel much more manageable.

Good job. :) 
Thumbs Up From Me Too 
Awesome Thanks 
The scrag example is one of the reasons the lightgrid was invented for Quake 3. 
When Will The Quakespasm Page Be Up Again? 
Does QS support .scale? I wonder if it would be fun to make tarbabies merge when they touch each other, forming a bigger tarbaby with each merging, all the way up to becoming a huge shambler-sized tarbaby. 
Awesome Idea! 
That would be an horrible "the thing"-like experience! 
If Barnak Likes It, It Must Be Wrong 
I'm fairly confident that if you tried to use DarkPlaces .scale on an Ogre...

If you doubled his size, his feet would be in the floor.

Also you know Quake hulls (collision) ...

Maybe for Quake 3 map format .scale would work, but any feature using the Q1 map format shouldn't be called ".scale" but rather ".broken_scale". 
Hmm, that would require a protocol change then. Or a modified model, or CSQC.

The protocol method would send the mins&maxs from the QC physics bounding box to the client, so the renderer can offset the position of the model correctly. It's the most general-purpose solution and would make .scale more intuitive to use. 
scale is supported by the rmqe/999 protocol, as well as fte+dp's protocols of course.
QS supports 999, I don't recall if it supports the scale part but QSS definitely does.

.scale is just as 'broken' on q3bsp as q1bsp.
For it to work properly, you need to bias the mins_z value to compensate. Obviously this will look seriously broken in engines that don't support scaling...
On q1bsp you need to refrain from changing mins_x and mins_y though, which limits the range of sizes you can get away with (otherwise a large monster will walk through walls in one direction, but not its opposite, and values that differ from the hull's size will make it more extreme).
maxs_z can be changed freely, at least. the monster might ignore ceilings but that's not a problem if you just avoid placing upscaled monsters in places with low ceilings. 
I don't think .scale is a good idea for reasons outlined by Spike, with which I'm in full agreement.

It's important to remember that the RMQ engine was a tech demo. One of it's purposes was as a semi-experimental test-bed for new ideas, not all of which should be expected to work well. Another of it's purposes was to become obsolete as ideas that did get bedded-in and nailed-down were picked up by other engines. It's a natural consequence of those two purposes that sometimes the implementation might be a bit wonky, or might simplify to a special case, or whatever. The point is: RMQ engine's implementation of .scale might not be a great model to work from. 
RMQe's behaviour is fine, and is consistent with DP_ENT_SCALE, so that's a good thing.

But yeah, the hull issues make automatic scaling unworkable, so scale without qc is generally a bad idea.

So imho RMQe's scale is fine, and more robust than hexen2's... 
@mk -- Actually No 
"Hmm, that would require a protocol change then. Or a modified model, or CSQC."

Nope. Neither.

1) Open up, say, QME and double the model size.
2) Change the .qc setting the box -- you might need to add a new monster. This would at least get the Ogre's feet touching the ground appropriately.

3) If you decided to make a monster too big for a Quake hull (Shambler size?) -- you better add some invisible func_walls to box the bastard in too hide the lack of proper collision.

You can do what you want to do today and it would work in any Quake engine including and be done in 30 minutes.

Just don't get forget the asterisks. ** Any proper map using a "too big" model like the QTest dragon (Once Upon Atrocity, for instance) needs to "no clip block him in" to his area and close the door behind the player so he can't be sticking his dragon wings through the walls.

The Kurok engine actually had a special brush type "monster_clip" for special clip brushes that instead of blocking the player would block only the monsters instead --- in the case of Kurok, it was a helicopter shooting missiles and the monster clip kept it in a defined box.

The Quake map "Source of Power" ... had baby Shamblers in GLQuake -- and I can't remember the name but some map had a 2x sized fiend or Rogue gremlin or something like that. It was also a map that ran in WinQuake/GLQuake just fine.

The short version is that ".scale" is and always was ".completely_broken_scale" that sounded cool unless you knew how broke it was.

It doesn't solve any problems and creates false newbie-sauce visions of grandeur -- and you can manually create a double sized or half sized fiend that works in WinQuake/GLQuake.

/Someone should find the guy who came up with the idea for ".scale" and slap him with a wet fish. 
You can do what you want to do today and it would work in any Quake engine including and be done in 30 minutes.

My idea was to use .scale in an animated way, and with non-arbitrary sizes. There would be a maximum size, but the tarbaby would also have any size between the minimum and the maximum.

Using multiple models would kill the model interpolation and wouldn't provide non-arbitrary sizes.

The animated shadows in Fightoon were created using animated scaling. The higher in the air the player gets, the larger (and more transparent) the shadow gets. This would be absolutely impossible to create in a regular engine. 
And here's another example of animated scaling usage. This effect dynamically resizes the model to the intensity of its entity's lighting.

I just didn't try figuring out uses of .scale for solid objects before. But for purely visual effects, it's a clear improvement. 
Using multiple models would kill the model interpolation and wouldn't provide non-arbitrary sizes.

You could author a new animation of "growing" from size N to size N+1, in each model. Play in reverse to shrink. This means he can't do anything else while he grows/shrinks, though. 
Also, the vertex compression would still cause the transition from one model to another to be jittery.

Using multiple models would still be a hacky & inefficient method. But the bigger issue is that the physics would likely end up even more hacky.

A proper solution for the physics would probably be to use the Q2 BSP format, which uses raw brushes for collision. But this means that such gameplay ideas aren't suited for Q1 anyway. 
Malice Issues 
why does the minigun skin in malice get messed up in both quakespasm and glquake?

also the probe wont fly about in quakespasm either... 
Small Idea / Request Thing 
Would you consider a "devkill" command? (short for "developer kill")

It would function like "kill", in the sense that the map and entities are all reloaded. However, it would preserve:

player position
player view angle
the current state of god, notarget, noclip.

When doing a lot of very rapid iteration on part of the level design, I realise most of my time is spent noclipping over to the place in question to test out the changes :/

I could fudge this in QC but then I think it would better if the feature was available engine side so you can use it in all mods.

For world geometry changes only, I can fudge it by just using save/load, but that doesn't work for any entity changes.

Just an idea. Would anyone else find it useful? 
Pretty Cool Idea Yeah. 
I'd use it. 
Save the state of the player entity only, minus dynamically referenced fields like entity and model references, and overwrite the current player state with it.

This could be implemented as "saveplayerstate" and "loadplayerstate" commands, giving the advantage of retaining the player state between engine sessions. 
I like the cut of your gib. Sounds like an elegant way of doing it :} 
I would use this as well. +1 
@Kinn - Noclipping To A Place 
Quakespasm has an setpos command to teleport you to a specific spot in the map, if I recall.

Type viewpos to get an x y z or you could type r_pos.

Those commands happen to work in Mark V. In Mark V, type viewpos and then typing setpos without the x, y, z will teleport where viewpos was last typed.

Short version: I think you can do what you want to do in Quakespasm already. 
Yeah, I Started Out Looking At That Actually. 
Turns out it didn't help too much because it's not really a case of me needing to teleport to the same specific area a lot, it's more to preserve the player's current arbitrary location and view during reloads when doing very rapid design iterations, where my location is jumping around all over the place.

The time it takes me to type r_pos, then note the coordinates, then type setpos X Y Z, means it's something you only want to do occasionally, and probably bind it to a key, which only really makes sense if you're spending a lot of time in that same area. But I zip around rapidly working here there and everywhere like a nutter.

If I just wanted to set up shortcuts to a bunch of fixed locations, it would be better to create a testing hub with teleporters to ten or twenty key areas in the map I reckon.

Without someone looking over my shoulder watching exactly how I work, I'm not sure if I'm really selling this to be honest :{ 
Hold Your Biscuits! 
Sorry I didn't read the critical bit here:

Those commands happen to work in Mark V. In Mark V, type viewpos and then typing setpos without the x, y, z will teleport where viewpos was last typed.

Ok, that's actually pretty useful. 
Custom Gfx Images 
Does the engine support custom images for the player HUD? It's for a mod. 
Is the issue with the Probe in Malice and engine side issue? Or something that could be fixed with QC? The probe won't move when activated in quakespasm.

Also wondering about the skin misalignment on the minigun mentioned earlier. 
Sorry I Forgot / Lost Track 
Can you link the post?

Skin misalignment: Not sure if it's this, but there is a half-texel offset in mdl skins in GLQuake relative to winquake, we discussed changing it to match WQ a few years ago but the consensus was to keep it as-is because there's a lot of content designed for the buggy GLQuake standard.

-- here's the current status on bugs in TC's I'm aware of:

1. the Xmen start map has a meditating guy telelporter, the teleport trigger is tiny due to setmodel() using a size based on the mdl rather than a fixed size like winquake. This was a change metl made in Fitzquake that I think he said was inadvertent. Not fixed - my feeling is we should revert to Winquake's behaviour, but there is a risk of breaking mods that were built for FQ's behaviour, so it may need a gameplay fix cvar to get the FQ behaviour back, which are a pain.

2. Malice (I think it was) has blue checkerboards on gibs, this was meant to highlight the mod being buggy since the skin number was invalid, but we changed it back to winquake behaviour and added a developer warning. 
Sorry, I don't know how to link to the original post in this thread. I'm pretty new here. Here's the original text though:

"Malice Issues
#3280 posted by [] on 2018/02/25 19:40:30
why does the minigun skin in malice get messed up in both quakespasm and glquake?

also the probe wont fly about in quakespasm either... "

I know the minigun thing is some sort of vsync/resolution issue. I tried playing with setting and it would eventually work. But would have to set vsync on/off each time I start.

The probe won't move at all when fire key is pressed. I did find something about MarkV engine fixing this or making a work around. 
@kinn - I'm glad that helped, ericw is free to copy the implementation if wants, obv. During testing I often need to go to the same point in a map frequently to examine an area doing engine stuff, obv.

@legend - Malice should play essentially perfectly in Mark V. NightFright really liked Malice and clubbed me over the head with Malice. If I recall, it is bounding box issue that FitzQuake simply has different behavior than WinQuake and the solution is something like sv_gameplay fix original Quake bounding boxes (I can't remember cvar name off hand but it sv_ something.) 
How To Invert Look On Quakespasm. 
Please help. All I want to do is invert the y axis for my ps4 controller. everything else works fine. Where is this default.cfg? I do not see it anywhere in my quake folder. I see dosbox_quake and dosbox_quake_single in the root directory. Where do I put joy_invert? 
Default.cfg should be in the main folder. If not, try in your ID1 folder. Also, try changing settings inside your config.cfg in the ID1 folder or inside the folder of which ever mod/mapset you are trying to run. 
You can open the console with the `/~ key and type "joy_invert 1". This is an archived cvar so it will be saved to id1/config.cfg. 
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