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Reading it and playing around now. The interface is incredibly slick. It's been a long time since I've opened a new editor and been able to just throw things together.
This feels more easy and comfortable than Unity... And if I'm seeing right you are reading defs and fgd. This is epic. The FGD loading has been extended to support model loading (as well as linking models to specific settings on entities like spawnflags and other key/vals). So, if you click 'rotten' on the health box, you get the rotten health box model.
This can all be customized for mods and such. It isn't documented yet since it was more important to get the application released with the mapping related documentation but this sort of ancillary documentation will be done later. My reaction after the video. Totally going to check this out. qe3 was nice to work with, but I just love messing around with editors in general. Looks very comfortable to use, will find out soon!
After literally 10 seconds of adding some wads and choosing the quake directory etc and fgd (I love you for supporting fgd) I was mapping. It was literally that easy, amazing stuff!
Clipping tool is epic camera controls are good but will take some getting used to coming from WC - would love to able to just toggle a key and go into "noclip camera mode" like in wc. Where you have mouselook on and can just w,a,s,d to move around like you were in-game. Quite tricky to pull brush sides outward on a single axis that you want, theres probably a key for this I'll have to play some more. There was a bug that prevented TrenchBroom from reading map files with comments in it (it was a mere typo). This is fixed in TrenchBroom 1.0.1.
Download here. For those lazy bastards who don't read documentation: Try Alt + Right drag and make sure your drag starts on some object (brush or entity). This will orbit the camera around the point were you clicked. I think once you get used to this, you won't miss your old editor for long ;-)
you can sort of get a walkthrough mode with just right clicking to turn the camera and mwheel up to move forward.
Quite tricky to pull brush sides outward on a single axis that you want, theres probably a key for this I'll have to play some more.
Are you talking about while in vertex editing mode? There is only the Alt key to toggle vertical movement on and off for now. There was originally a way to clamp movement to specific axes, but it was bulky and not very useful most of the time so for now, movement on x/y cannot be clamped. In these cases, it helps to get used to moving the camera more. For myself, it took a while to get used to having to move the camera so much because I would normally just leave it sit in a general area and do my editing in the 2d views and just watch the 3d without interacting with it much. "Try Alt + Right drag and make sure your drag starts on some object (brush or entity). "
Mother of god My only complaint at this point would be the texture browser. It's hard to make out some of them on a high res screen. Yes, thanks I should have mentioned that as well. Vertices are treated like objects, so you can select them and move them just like anything else. I use the keyboard a lot when I need to do precise stuff.
For those lazy bastards who don't read documentation: Try Alt + Right drag and make sure your drag starts on some object (brush or entity). This will orbit the camera around the point were you clicked. I think once you get used to this, you won't miss your old editor for long ;-)
wasd-style flythough is essential for this kind of work, i'd highly recommend putting it in. Just wanted to say thanks for this. I've played around for a little bit now and I can honestly say that I feel this rekindling a lot of that old, raw fun factor of Quake editing that I felt way back in the day.
This is a great editor, congrats! Damn that looks awesome! Definitely going to start using this.
SleepwalkR: Thankyou so much for using git as well! So much easier to follow what is going on and to contribute. You're a bloody legend :D Tried to run it and I got an error saying "msvcp100.dll could not be found". I downloaded this -
http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/confirmation.aspx?id=5555 Which removed the error message. But the I'm running 32bit windows 8. (2ghz processor, 3gb ram... ummm yeah it's a laptop). I literally reinstalled my OS today so my pc is completely clear of junk. I have successfully been able to run the editor on Windows 8, albeit in a virtual machine. Could you please create a new issue and give me some information on your graphics card and driver? Also, paste the entire contents of the console, please.
http://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues Sorry SleepwalkR, it wont let me select the text in the console. Does the editor have a way of logging everything into a file? I have made a screenshot -
http://s23.postimage.org/xm8w7bsq3/error.jpg My graphics card is Geforce 8600M GT and the driver info is in the screenshot - http://s23.postimage.org/lls1kcap7/driver.jpg I hope this helps. TrenchBroom doesn't write a log file, but it should. I'll add that to the next release. Maybe I can fix your problem then. Sorry.
Echoing what Williem said and congrats on the release!
Also want to say that TrenchBroom has an extremely fluid method of sculpting (tri-soup-like) brushes. Excellent work! Turns out it was the graphics driver, I updated to the latest nvidia drivers and I got it working!
It's fairly nifty, somewhat reminiscent of the built-in Portal 2 editor (only more powerful), I will be a bore and echo the WASD requests... so far so good though. I look forward to tinkering all weekend. :) amazing. I'm going to have to try this out tonight. On a side note, I discovered this via Carmack's twitter actually. I'll do a news post on Inside3d about it tonight as well.
I hope I like it even half as well as DaZ and Willem seem to! You'll love it. I'm mapping for my old mod Qonquer right now and it's absolutely seamless. Between this editor, and the new tools that were just released, and the compiler UI from Necros Quake mapping is enjoyable again. :P
I've already partially converted my WIP level to trenchboom. I do feel without a 2d x/y grid etc I have less accuracy though, it's a very organic feeling editor.
I'll give it a go, but Quake 2 is my poison of choice for Quake editing. Any plans for Q2 support?
I had the same problem as elephant walker (sp) above.
Win XP (fully up to date) GForce440go C++ 2010 runtimes installed old laptop (but that shouldn't matter unless this software needs more than 512mb on startup) Console started loading something about models (it went by pretty fast so I couldn't see what it said with any accuracy) then it crashed. Maybe I'll try it again after it's a bit more matured but I do like the concept. I resolved the issue by updating to the latest drivers, maybe try that if you haven't already? :)
<quote>Loading file H:\Mapping\555.map
Loading unsupported map Valve 220 map format</quote> thats sad Went through 80% of the documentation, I really appreciate that it is there! So far everything feels very good. Going to finish the documentation in the morning, then prod at the primary functions, and once I feel comfortable, attempt a speedmap with it.
Oh and FYI, Tom Mustaine retweeted the link Carmack had supplied, and stated he knew what he was going to be up to this weekend. Perhaps word will spread to Levelord and we can get some bizarro mini-Scourge of Armagon going on... I think he said he's working on support for 220 map files. It'd be nice (and I could import my WIP levels in to do the organic stuff like terrain), but I'd love to have some more robust texture alignment features (snap to top/bottom/face/floor etc, basically the options available in WC)
Maybe I have done something wrong, but TrenchBroom will not find/load any
Other than that, this editor is a fantastic piece of work. Now on to adding support for Quake2 and Quake3! :) It would be nice if Q2 and Q3 support were segregated well. Most editors wear all the games on their sleeve and it's annoying to see menu options and flags all over the place that don't apply to the game you're editing.
Same crash as Quaketree on a Windows 7 with Intel GMA 3150 with ancient drivers. I will reboot into nvidia (it's an optimus system).
Works fine with the nvidia.
Placing "Preferences" in "View" seems weird to me. "Edit" would be more normal. Loading wads quickly says "loaded" in the console but then it stalls for a moment before the wad appears in the list (thumbnails I guess). Maybe add a message, I thought it crashed.
When you have toggled "group" in the wad view, make the wad name clickable and extend it into a list of all the loaded wads to let the user quickly jump to a wad. The issue seems solved once I pointed TrenchBroom to Quake\ instead of id1\. I don't recall if I set it to Quake\id1 or if TrenchBroom did. I will stick with my being at fault for now. Thanks a bunch for the editor, awesome work!
Changes
- Fix issues with texture caching when removing wad files. - Correctly display long spawnflag names. - Improve clip plane guessing when less than 3 points are available. - Fix crash when calling "Center Camera on Selection" when nothing is selected. - Add option to disable instanced rendering. About the last issue: If the editor goes bonkers when you activate vertex mode, it failed to properly detect whether OpenGL instancing is supported by your driver. In this case, go to the preferences and choose "Force off" from the instancing mode dropdown list. Thanks everyone for the bug reports. Loading 'progs/player.mdl' (searching C:\Quake\ID1,C:\Quake\ID1)
Unable to find MDL 'progs/player.mdl' as a example - I saw others fixing it by pointing TrenchBroom to Quake\ instead of id1\ I have no idea how to go about this. So any help or being pointed towards a solution would be great - I am looking forward to using this as been using Quark for so long a change would be wonderful! And yes, you have to set your Quake directory in the preferences, but it looks okay from the log output. Can you post the contents of your id1 directory please?
GFX
glquake MAPS progs SOUND there are the folders GFX.WAD PROGS.DAT QUAKE.RC qwprogs.dat Are the side files in the folder also. GFX
glquake MAPS progs SOUND there are the folders GFX.WAD PROGS.DAT QUAKE.RC qwprogs.dat Are the side files in the folder also. TrenchBroom will only read models from pak files, not from the directories. You will need the standard pak files.
GFX
glquake MAPS progs SOUND there are the folders GFX.WAD PROGS.DAT QUAKE.RC qwprogs.dat Are the side files in the folder also. Duplicate brush and paste EXACTLY where previous brush is. Just an alternative to copy & paste really. This is super useful to save even a few seconds, no need to align x/y/z when I just need it nudged to the left/right a few times. Pretty sure Radiant/DarkRadiant has this, but it's been a while since I last used them.
Texturing from the texture window without needing a face selected. I choose my texture, and start clicking at random faces and they'll be assigned there. Kind of like WC/Hammer (iirc) Otherwise, I am loving this editor. Still messing around with it but workflow is pretty fast already. It honestly feels a bit smoother and quicker to use than Radiant varieties I've tried. Duplicate in place is already on my todo list.
As for the texture application issue, TrenchBroom has something similar builtin. Look at the section "Working with Textures / Mouse Shortcuts" in the documentation. GFX
glquake MAPS progs SOUND there are the folders GFX.WAD PROGS.DAT QUAKE.RC qwprogs.dat Are the side files in the folder also. No idea why it keeps posting that iv even restarted my browser and it still insists on doing so.. >.<
anyway thanks Ill try track down the original Pak files they should not be so hard to find! I already have a build that will load models from scattered files. If you want it, send me an email to kristian.duske@gmail.com
The fix will go into 1.0.3, but I'm not going to release that right away. Needs to support Xonotic (runs on the quake1 based Darkplaces engine) like RIGHT NOW!
Awesome work, thanks for making this. I'm having a lot of trouble with texture alignment (as you may have seen on my other posts) but I haven't shown a picture. Essentially I've edited the verts of a brush so that I can create a kind of angular wall but the alignment is way off. Is there a way to align the texture to the face like in WC? Pictures below for reference -
http://s15.postimage.org/wgjjzbix7/weirdskew.jpg http://s16.postimage.org/enqn5lg5h/weirdskew2.jpg I hope I'm not being annoying with bringing this up multiple times, this is otherwise an excellent editor (and I will probably end up dropping using Worldcraft entirely). It's not a feature either ;-). This is how Quake does texture projection. WC uses a different type of projection that most compilers also understand, but TB doesn't support his yet. It's on the todo list though, and since a few people have already asked for this, I will probably get working on it soon.
Still trying to work out repro steps, but it has crashed each time I've tried to do any 3 point clipping. Might have to do clipping in multiple separate steps. I'll let you know if I find anything more specific. FYI, I've not had any of the problems others have in this thread so far (Win7-64bit, Radeon HD6850).
Never realized you could split multiple edges at once if they share the same place.
Select two brushes that share a pair of vertex positions, double click the edge between those two and you split both edges at once AND the new vertices move as one. I love this editor. ^_^ I hope this editor evolves to become "the standard Q1 editor".
Knowing how 10 minute ideas can at times take 2-days to reduce to code, and the sheer number of them, there are 53 different ways this is quite awesome. Congratulations! Shall we all be fortunate enough to see more monumental acts of defiance against odds in the future. http://mobile.sheridanc.on.ca/~jonescor/temp/shot_vertexManip.jpg
http://mobile.sheridanc.on.ca/~jonescor/temp/shot_vertexManip2.jpg Thanks. :) Also, I haven't done any of the documentation I said I would do because I was mapping. You have only yourself to blame! Necros you are an unstoppable beast... Really I'm blown away right now.
I was kinda hoping I'd get to crank out the first Trench map but I can't map so much at that pace. I've been testing it for the past few months so I'm pretty proficient with the interface, but this is the first chance I've had to do some serious non-stop mapping that wasn't trying to break anything. :P
I just really love how powerful the vertex manip is. In other editors I would always be careful to do my manip in a way that wouldn't crash the editor or break the brush. In trenchbroom I just grab a vert and move it any old way and it just works. Frogdammit. I do have the latest drivers for that card. In fact I have drivers newer than the last officially released ones for that card. Still made by Geforce but dated in 2005. The laptop is a 2002 model and doesn't support shaders which is why I was going to relegate it to something else. All of the other map editors work fine on it.
Oh well... Can't run. After starting the program I get a message:
http://s017.radikal.ru/i430/1303/e2/4a656ef4b2fb.jpg After pressing a button, the message is displayed again. So many times. Then the program ends Windows 7 ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650 Series digs, I will add a log file to the next version. For some reason, some of the error dialogs don't show any meaningful information (even though there usually is some). Then we can try to fix this problem.
this looks amazing! I may have to try this mapping lark again. Everyone: Expect lots of newb questions in the near future.
I ran it yesterday, it was sitting in my downloads folder. So I moved it into program files today. When I open it now it instantly crashes. Does it store a config somewhere which I need to delete?
The copy in the old folder still works fine. 2012 was a milestone years for maps, and 2013 is already a milestone year for tools.
Not even a quarter of the way through and we've already given vis times a big punch in the balls with Tyrann's new shizzle, and now this comes along which seems to be taking brush manipulation to a new level. Do you know what I would absolutely love though: The option of using a max/maya-style movement handle with arrows along each axis that you can pull to move in just that axis. The current movement is pretty great, but I find it's sometimes hard to keep it constrained to x or y, and with a max/maya type gizmo, I wouldn't need to keep holding alt to move in z. That said, i've been mucking around making organic rocky stuff with this, and it's just amazing.... We had implemented movement handles at one point, but I found it to be unintuitive. I wanted ppl to be able to just grab objects and move them around. I can add a special mode for move handles, but it feels redundant. Let me think about it, maybe I can come up with a way to restrict movement axes that can be combined with the current approach.
TrenchBroom keeps its config in the registry under
HKEY_CURRENT_USER/Software/TrenchBroom If you delete that entire key, does it work? I can't imagine why it would fail when you move the app, though. i think as an option that you can toggle with a shortcut it would be perfect because there's always situations where you want to yank stuff effortlessly in one axis without worrying about moving it in another.
but it seems that many people are used to what they can do in professional 3D packages. I'll see what I can do.
Trying out a cave wall, I sometimes accidentally push verts off into the distance. Having a gizmo with 3 axis and 3 planes would be really handy at times. (like this: http://www.finalclap.com/ressources/images/3dsmax-tracking6.jpg )
The gizmo is one of those things I often lack in level editors for older games (most newer editors have them). alternatively you could try having cubes for handles, and selecting the y-face on the cube would move on the y-plane, etc... you could have a similar system of bounding boxes when selecting an entire brush. (on a sidenote, in the view tab, having the ability to hide vertex handles on backfaces could be useful) I put it into program files on C:\, but that requires admin login. Moving it to F:\ which is accessible as regular user fixes it...
Hope that makes sense? doesn't work if you are too close to the selection. We discussed that one already.
A lot of the fluidity and speed when doing brush manipulation in TrenchBroom is due to the ability to just click and drag stuff around. This is seriously hampered by gizmos because you have to hit a small part of them to select the correct axis. That's why I would prefer a different option that can be combined with the idea of just clicking anywhere on an object to move it around. And yeah, might be my system.
Also, this is obviously a retard move, but anyway; reproducible crash with the clipper: http://www.spiney.me/files/etc/clipcrash.png It's probably been mentioned before, but I (as a Radiant-lover) would like some kind of 'legacy' control scheme for the editor that mimics Radiant's or (god forbid) WorldCraft's keybindings / camera control.
Other than that, and this can't be said enough, this editor is a serious Godsend. You mean a flythrough mode like this? https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/383
Changes
- Objects are no longer displaced when duplicated. - Fix off-by-one bug of mod list in map properties dialog. - Snap vertex coordinates if close to integer coordinates. - Add logging on all platforms. - Properly merge spawnflags when loading fgd or def files. - Fix crash bug when clipping all selected brushes. Having a gizmo with 3 axis and 3 planes would be really handy at times.
Yep, totally agree, also an axis lock function. Add flythrough mode A noclip fly mode is a must for me. Ok guys, I see that a lot of you want a gizmo for moving things around. The thing is, unlike everyone else except for necros, I have already seen how gizmos work in TrenchBroom, and while he may disagree, I don't think they work very well because
1. They clutter up the viewport, esp. if you have only one entity selected. 2. They are harder to hit than just clicking and dragging anywhere on an object. 3. They seriously diminish what some have called the "slickness" of this editor. The ability to just grab and move things around is very important, and it is hindered by having these gizmos. Now you might suggest that I implement both. But that would be redundant for everything except restricting movement to one single axis. So what I really hear when you say "I want a gizmo" is "I want to be able to restrict the axis of movement". Note that you already have restrictions in place though: - By default, you can only move things on the horizontal plane. - You can restrict the movement direction to the Z axis by holding ALT. So what I think is really necessary is a way to restrict the axis of movement to the X or Y axis. I have just thought about a solution that I'm going to implement to see how it works. Bottom line: I'm not going to add gizmos for movement until all other options are exhausted. And even then I might not do it because I think they are, for the reasons outlined above, a bad solution to a fundamental UI problem of 3D software: How to translate 2D input into 3D. I understand the whole 'developers license' as in 'artistic license', but you could make it optional, off by default.
Ricky
Not to bash on you, but that's the crappy way out on stuff like this. Adding scores of checkboxes to an app just adds ton of code paths that all need testing before each release and just slows everything down. If he can hit on a "right way" and just do that, it's far better in the long run. "So what I think is really necessary is a way to restrict the axis of movement to the X or Y axis."
Yes, totally agree. If something simple can be worked out for axis locking on brushes and entities, I think you'd be golden! I agree with Ricky, make it an option (or a hotkey like holding alt does with z axis, or have it pop up like when you press R for rotation). I'm getting quite used to the workflow now, it's becoming less of an issue the more I play.
I need to figure out a good way of making curves in TB now... Also, I have noticed that the entities don't seem to have all the options available (for instance the light entity doesn't have the light, style, _color key etc). If he can hit on a "right way" and just do that, it's far better in the long run.
I agree with this. I'm all for customization, but not on core functionality. Yeah I know, I just have a terrible memory for remembering all the keys :P
I'm sure I remember seeing a colour picker for coloured lighting... I agree with others that a way to clamp to x or y axis is needed.
Something of a more advanced feature for people that are awful at maths (like me) would be a nice brush curves tool where for example you could select a brush or combination of brushes and then select a bend angle and amount of segments and it would create a nice clean on-grid brush curve for you. Similar to how czg's curve tutorial handles things but automated. Adding more functionality to the entity window would be awesome too, things like light value entries, wait, delay, colour etc. <quote>I understand the whole 'developers license' as in 'artistic license', but you could make it optional, off by default. </quote>
<quote>I agree with Ricky, make it an option (or a hotkey like holding alt does with z axis, or have it pop up like when you press R for rotation). I'm getting quite used to the workflow now, it's becoming less of an issue the more I play. </quote> See Willem's response. That's exactly how I feel about this. <quote>I need to figure out a good way of making curves in TB now...</quote> <quote>Something of a more advanced feature for people that are awful at maths (like me) would be a nice brush curves tool where for example you could select a brush or combination of brushes and then select a bend angle and amount of segments and it would create a nice clean on-grid brush curve for you. Similar to how czg's curve tutorial handles things but automated. </quote> A patch builder is on my todo list. It would basically allow you to create patches and then generate brushwork (trisoup) for them. <quote> Also, I have noticed that the entities don't seem to have all the options available (for instance the light entity doesn't have the light, style, _color key etc). </quote> The entity property editor is quite rudimentary as is, I agree. I plan on the following features - Easy way to add "known" properties (from fgd or def file). - Display additional description strings from fgd and def file. - More smart property editors (angle, mangle, target, etc). - Better navigation (tab to navigate row-wise, enter to navigate column-wise, create new property when leaving the last row). - And other things I can't think of right now. <quote>Is there a reason for doing page-up/down rather than alt+arrows? </quote> Alt+Arrows is currently taken for the camera movement. You will be able to completely customize this in the next version though. I agree that Alt+up/down would also make sense given that Alt+Mouse will move things vertically. I understand the whole 'developers license' as in 'artistic license', but you could make it optional, off by default.
I agree with Ricky, make it an option (or a hotkey like holding alt does with z axis, or have it pop up like when you press R for rotation). I'm getting quite used to the workflow now, it's becoming less of an issue the more I play. See Willem's response. That's exactly how I feel about this. I need to figure out a good way of making curves in TB now... Something of a more advanced feature for people that are awful at maths (like me) would be a nice brush curves tool where for example you could select a brush or combination of brushes and then select a bend angle and amount of segments and it would create a nice clean on-grid brush curve for you. Similar to how czg's curve tutorial handles things but automated. A patch builder is on my todo list. It would basically allow you to create patches and then generate brushwork (trisoup) for them. Also, I have noticed that the entities don't seem to have all the options available (for instance the light entity doesn't have the light, style, _color key etc). The entity property editor is quite rudimentary as is, I agree. I plan on the following features - Easy way to add "known" properties (from fgd or def file). - Display additional description strings from fgd and def file. - More smart property editors (angle, mangle, target, etc). - Better navigation (tab to navigate row-wise, enter to navigate column-wise, create new property when leaving the last row). - And other things I can't think of right now. Is there a reason for doing page-up/down rather than alt+arrows? Alt+Arrows is currently taken for the camera movement. You will be able to completely customize this in the next version though. I agree that Alt+up/down would also make sense given that Alt+Mouse will move things vertically. But is there a way to group together brushes? I had a look through the Help document but couldn't find anything. It would make things a hell of a lot faster.
I generally create a set of pre-fabs to work with (saves time, keeps everything looking consistent). Also, WIP of Deck 16 remake (completely done in TB) - http://s24.postimage.org/ov1vd2out/Quake0000.jpg http://s7.postimage.org/jht6up70r/Quake0001.jpg I think the only way is to create a func_group entity with everything inside that you want grouped. They are added to the worldspawn at compile time...
Make sure you add -group to your compiler or it will treat it like a normal brush entity. Adding -group is what makes the compiler merge those func_group entities as if they were normal brushes.
I mean to make a kind of prefab that I can copy and paste to save time. Or is making a group entity how you do it?
Also thanks... This editor has really put the fun back into mapping! For now, yes. So select the brushes of the bits you want to be the prefab and right click and make it into a func_group (RMB -> Create Brush Entity -> Group).
This is actually a hold over for how it was done in radiant editors because they do not use a special map format. Eventually, I think the plan is to create prefabs in external map files that you can then load into your actual map and then rotate, move, etc... (ie: they are not just pasted in, if you edited the original, then all the instances of that prefab would be updated). I'm using Necros's compiling tool and it doesn't have a -group checkbox (I tried adding it manually in the folder setup but it said unknown option 'group') :P
I might just persevere with clicking on brushes like a maniac than having to Thanks Spiney, it's smaller than the original but it will tighten up the gameplay a lot more. Because all compilers have their own switches, I left the creation of the buttons up to the user. Right click in an empty space to create a new button. :)
Which compiler are you using? I'm using the BJP tools that just came out -
http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60909 That's odd, the tool reports that it has -group support.
You added -group into the command line arguments textbox in my compiler UI, it said unknown option in the dos box that pops up when you try to compile? i totally agree with herr sleep. gizmo is good for 3d modeling editors, but even there, there's possibility to move objects not clicking on gizmo. (in maya it's middlemousebutton, but you have to fucking ctrl-click on an axis first to set the plane of movement). personally i'm trying to avoid using gizmo in maya, but it reigns there and forces me to click on it sometimes. and modeling in maya is more precise and complex by nature than messing with simple brushes, so gizmo there is indeed more useful.
and trenchbroom totally dropped this precise clicking on gizmo which rocks. you rly don't need it because there're hotkeys (soon to be customized). Sorry, but TB requires shaders. I'll add minimum system requirements to the website.
Yeah. I kinda figured that which is why I mentioned it. No big deal, it's my fault that I was using such an old platform. I'm glad to hear that you're putting up minimum system requirements so someone else doesn't run into the same issue. Were never a nice solution, after reading everything I'm relieved to see you've gone with the 'anything but' option.
Locking to an axis by a key press is much neater. As to entity management, it'd be nice to have (another) worldcraft feature - the entity report. https://photos-2.dropbox.com/t/0/AADr1aw1PnyNNTcQbVdVTPZvzwH4c0BYjA9KT_eZ5vy38g/12/88336058/png/32x32/2/1362405600/0/2/entity_report.PNG/St_OZhlgoCUFcMtWEWSx_lEQjwHovC2jfFUXKswUTUg?size=1280x960&size_mode=2 ( Sorry for the retarded link - Dropbox decided to 'upgrade' their previously working frontend, apparently. ) Basically the entity report allows searching of entities by keyflags / type / spawnflags in an additional text window. Lower priority than the fixed texture projection, but would be good. I can see it becoming a more evolved system, that doesn't depend on a load of floating boxes pointing to level logic. May be wishful thinking, but if you apply the same approach to entity mangement as you have to brushes then it'd be just as awesome. As per your earlier comment, I don't want the WC entity report, my request is for 'a nice way to work with entities...' And Congrats, Trenchboom is famous! Well, that looks like an extension to the search and filter feature from the View inspector. I was thinking of improving the search syntax to allow stuff like "spawnflags = 1 AND classname = "monster_ijed", would that be a good replacement for that functionality?
What do you mean, famous? Carmack's tweet? Yeah, that felt quite nice! Yeah the tweet - and this morning in the office someone (who isn't involved in Quake) started talking to me about a "the new Quake editor" :)
They actually arrived here and recognised my handle in the comments - which was weird. I admit I haven't gone into the entity implementation properly yet, my earlier comments were just based on the brush editing. Improving the search functionality would be ok, but I can imagine something more revolutionary. Like not visualising any pure-logic entities in the level, only physical entities. But also showing physical entities in the 'edit entity pane' - which would support all the current and suggested functionality. That would be a ton of work though. I'll have some more useful feedback over the coming week, as I try to get my current project converted over. That is mighty cool, it seems that a lot of people saw that (yet I didn't hear from anyone but the people on the forums I posted it on).
I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean about the entity functionality you are proposing. By "not visualizing" you mean hiding them from the view? That would be easy if there was a way to identify "pure logic" entities. Not sure that there is, but it could be added to the FGD / Def files. "Showing physical entities in the edit entity pane" - By "edit entity pane" you mean the entity inspector (second tab on the right)? But what do you mean by "showing physical entities" there? Sorry if I'm being daft, maybe it's a language thing. Could you elaborate a bit? I tend to explain ideas elliptically / badly.
you mean hiding them from the view? Yes, but this would mean making the entity inspector powerful enough so that it wouldn't be necessary. The complex logic systems usually needed for set pieces in a map aren't helped by having the various entities visible in 3D space. There are much nicer systems that logic tree front ends but that'd be a lot of work to include. More than anything this would be a new layer of interface. By "edit entity pane" you mean the entity inspector? Yes. what do you mean by "showing physical entities" there? Anything that is only logic wouldn't be visible, but other entities, for example "monster_thing" would be visible as well. So a setup of: monster_thing monster_thing monster_thing + trigger_counter = func_door would have the door and monsters visible in 3D but not the trigger counter. All however would be shown in the entity inspector. All of this is kind of dancing around the feature I'm suggesting though, which is referred to as a Visual Scripting Editor. There are many different implementations of this, from very simple to extremely complex. Having a Quake version would be yet another evolutionary leap. Ideas like the WC Entity Report or even the original id1 path system eventually evolved into Visual Scripting Editors. Which are just more intuitive or user friendly ways of setting up level logic. What I've written here is so open ended it could take years of work, whereas a more elegant and direct solution could provide the same functionality and take half a day. I need to get into the guts of the editor more to make more feasible suggestions. Converting over my current stuff should provide that though :) Now I understand what you want. We should discuss this more when the other, more essential features have been implemented.
If it can be done without, that's great. However I find myself using the arrow keys more and more. The question to me is whether a slower and more calculated approach will save time in the end over a loose approach that requires more moves to complete. The current approach requires to switch the view constantly to get into a decent position to move stuff. I used to do sub-d modeling in Silo where pressing crtl will let you move vertices around parallel to the viewport. That's highly intuitive, but over time I found myself evolving to the 'slower' method of doing per axis movement since I didn't need to rotate the view constantly in order to get precise tweaks. So, I personally often prefer to take the ugly and slow 'long shortcut'... mileage might vary
Are you getting an error from the compiler or from the GUI frontend ? The compiler should definitely support this.
So, I'm just saying, if you can find something that keeps things as simple and straightforward as they are now, it's win-win. But I just feel more precise movement would save me a lot of time in the end, and I'm skeptical a non-gizmo thing can do that. They've been in virtually all 3D packages for almost 2 decades now which should account for something. But at the same time I would honestly love to be proven wrong.
I get an error from the command line when I run the compiler and the BSP fails to run. (error code 01)
For me, the best thing about gizmos is it means you can securely move an object in any direction without having to get the camera view in a better position, and more importantly you don't have to keep holding different keys on the keyboard.
So, I'm just saying, if you can find something that keeps things as simple and straightforward as they are now, it's win-win. But I just feel more precise movement would save me a lot of time in the end, and I'm skeptical a non-gizmo thing can do that. They've been in virtually all 3D packages for almost 2 decades now which should account for something. But at the same time I would honestly love to be proven wrong.
Can mean whatever its perceived as.
The task requirement is 'tool that allows precision movement along specified axis'. Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue though. Changes
- Improved Quake.fgd and Quoth2.fgd (thanks negke!). - Improvements to clipboard pasting. - Fixed a crash bug when loading maps with invalid brushes. I saw this in the notes for 1.0.3 and wanted to say that:
"Objects are no longer displaced when duplicated" This is still offsetting duplicated things for me. Do I need to clear a config file or something? I checked the About box and it said 1.0.3 Same with 1.0.4
Am I interpreting that correctly as saying ctrl+d shouldn't be offsetting anymore? Displacing sucks. :) We've talked about it already but every time it displaces my duplicate, I have to move it back into place before working with it. It's almost never what you want...
I just realised that CTRL+D displaces by a small amount rather than the huge amounts that Copy and Paste are doing... I've wasted so much time (also, if you're duping brushes you're moving it somewhere else, plus it's better that it displaces so that you don't accidentally dupe multiple times without noticing).
You'd think that, logically, but my experience says otherwise. Over time it becomes far easier to dupe in place and then move it since at least one of the axis that it got bumped on is going to be wrong.
yeah, that is my experience with it also. I almost always follow a Ctrl+D with a Up and Left to push the brush back to the original spot.
There is something like this in Quark.
The big difference with quark vs (afaik) all other editors is that there is a tree view of the entire map where you see individual entities and brushes as nodes in the tree, grouped by brush entities or user made group folders. entities that are defined in a certain way (for example: trigger_relay, trigger_counter) do not appear in the map at all, only in the tree view. Since quark407 was the first editor I used, I was really confused about how script entities were like when I went over to radiant. I actually still find them very cumbersome having all these boxes floating around with lines going everywhere. They are a very poor method of doing any kind of scripting. There is a downside though: when you load a map like this in other editors, you end up with a giant pile of overlapping script entities all at '0 0 0'. :\ This looks really interesting! Is there any plans to support other closely related Quake1-engine games? Specifically: Hexen 2?
I REALLY need a better editor for the levels I am making... Quake 2 and 3 are on my todo list. You're the second person to ask for Hexen 2 support. I have no idea what would be necessary to support that game though. But I'll look into it once I start supporting other games.
I think all it takes to make it support a wide variety of (id-engine) games are surface/brush flags and patches (curves). Everything else is a matter of having a proper fgd. Quest 2.4, for instance, supported HL, Hexen 2, Sin, and several Q1-3 mods out of the box with this additional fuctionality.
Having some visual representation of entity linking would be nice (target#/killtarget#->targetname#) of course, it would have to be toggleable to avoid a mess. necros, I usually place script entities close to their area of action for easier accessiblity. But, yes, things like relay and counters can be at 0 0 0, or even lack an origin field altogether. However, the editor must have an entity list then (TB needs one, too, if it doesn't have it already). There will be a Quark-like tree of everything the map contains in a future version.
Target link visualization is also on my todo list. Again can't run.
In log file many lines like: 5228 2013-03-05 14:28:30: Loading 'progs/player.mdl' (searching ) 5228 2013-03-05 14:28:30: Unable to find MDL 'progs/player.mdl' In the end: WARNING: 30:1: implicit cast from int to float 5228 2013-03-05 14:28:31: Fragment shader(s) linked, vertex shader(s) linked. 5228 2013-03-05 14:28:31: Fragment shader(s) linked, vertex shader(s) linked. WARNING: 30:1: implicit cast from int to float 5228 2013-03-05 14:28:31: Fragment shader(s) linked, vertex shader(s) linked. And then there is the same window with an error that is repeated many times Sorry if I asked you before, but what's your OS, graphics card and driver? I'll create a report for it, maybe I can fix it.
Windows 7 Pro
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650 Series Driver: Provider: ATI Technologies Inc. date: 04.08.2009 Version: 8.635.0.0 I suggest you update it. I have seen crash bugs go away for several people after they updated their drivers. Just ask Scampie ;-)
http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/legacy/Pages/legacy-radeonaiw-vista64.aspx Ah, I forgot about Quark. Only used it briefly since I started with WC. Tree view sounds about right.
Maybe to mitigate the downside new logic entities could be offset 16 units, even though they're not seen. This is just a hobby for me, and I'm happy if people like the editor (and use it to create maps). I doubt I'd get a lot of money from it, and I don't really need it, either. Not that I'm rich, but I have a job that's paid well enough to support me and my family.
Nobody has asked because these crusty Quake senior citizens already know the answer.
Back in the day, one of the most popular and respected deathmatch map review sites was RAMSHACKLE. You can view an archive of the site here: http://bit7.org/quake/mirrors/ramshackle/ The author of the reviews, Jeff Yost, was quite fond of using the term 'Trench Broom' to describe the double-barreled shotgun. Of course, the phrase has its origins elsewhere, but Jeff placed in the collective Quake consciousness via his entertaining reviews. The name "TrenchBroom" is in reference to The Ramshackle, a Quake DM map review site by Jeff Yost. He kept referring to one of the Quake weapons (either the Shotgun or the GL) as "TrenchBroom".
I like the sound of the word, also it's rare enough that it's google friendly, and it references a Quake website that has been defunct for > 10 years now. What's not to like? First of all, good work with the editor! I love the simplified 1-view only interface.
So, I decided to make something for Q1 again after 10+ years and one thing that confuses me are entity properties. I know I can add new keys, but shouldn't there be some predefined keys for let's say trigger_once? Is there any way to find which keys a specific entity has? Ok, I was lazy and didn't bother to read previous comments.
Only the last question remains: Is there any way to find which keys a specific entity has? Or should I check other editors for reference? Thanks and keep on with the work :) Right now, this information is not displayed in TB. I plan to greatly improve entity editing support, but it will take a while. For now, you can open the Quake.fgd file and look at it.
It also brings about a decent productivity boost.
Firstly, the answer to the question of whether or not to translate an object created by using the standard duplicate operation is quite obvious. You should always move it away from the original object. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand why people want it to remain in place for faster re-positioning, but I don't think this is the answer - the danger of leaving objects on top of each other is too high. Yes, if you're paying attention you're fine, but there's always a chance that you'll hit duplicate accidentally (or repeatedly), or that you'll get distracted for a while and forget you've cloned the object when you return. You are then left with unwanted brushes which you will not be aware of - as far as I can tell, brushes in TrenchBroom don't z-fight if they are placed on top of each other either (even if they have different textures applied). This makes it impossible to know there's a problem if you're not looking for it. Mr Fribbles, I don't want to hear problems, I want to hear solutions! OK, here's the answer (or a suggestion, at any rate): an additional set of commands (and corresponding shortcuts) to duplicate and offset the selected object(s) in one go. I would suggest the hotkey set listed below (opinion alert, I'd also remap some of the current ones!) LEFTARROW: move object left RIGHTARROW: move object right UPARROW: move object forward DOWNARROW: move object back CTRL+LEFTARROW: rotate object left CTRL+RIGHTARROW: rotate object right CTRL+UPARROW: move object up CTRL+DOWNARROW: move object down CTRL+SHIFT+LEFTARROW: duplicate object and move the clone left CTRL+SHIFT+RIGHTARROW: duplicate object and move the clone right CTRL+SHIFT+UPARROW: duplicate object and move the clone up CTRL+SHIFT+DOWNARROW: duplicate object and move the clone down Naturally you'd offset the object by the current grid amount (if snap to grid is on). If grid snap was off, pick your poison (a sensible default distance, or perhaps something clever such as offsetting the object by its width in the chosen direction!) Maybe the entire concept is not so good. Maybe it would be better to always duplicate objects just by dragging them, e.g. Ctrl+Drag will create a clone and move that.
OTOH, I wanted to use Ctrl+Drag to select multiple objects in a future version. But that could still be achieved if the drag starts with an unselected object. If it starts with a selected object, the selected objects would be cloned. (Because I done fucked up!)
LEFTARROW: move object left RIGHTARROW: move object right UPARROW: move object forward DOWNARROW: move object back CTRL+LEFTARROW: rotate object left CTRL+RIGHTARROW: rotate object right CTRL+UPARROW: move object up CTRL+DOWNARROW: move object down SHIFT+LEFTARROW: duplicate object and move the clone left SHIFT+RIGHTARROW: duplicate object and move the clone right SHIFT+UPARROW: duplicate object and move the clone forward SHIFT+DOWNARROW: duplicate object and move the clone back CTRL+SHIFT+LEFTARROW: duplicate object and rotate clone left CTRL+SHIFT+RIGHTTARROW: duplicate object and rotate clone right CTRL+SHIFT+UPARROW: duplicate object and move the clone up CTRL+SHIFT+DOWNARROW: duplicate object and move the clone down Combine these with well chosen grid settings and you will be an unstoppable Quake editing beast of righteous fury. have "duplicate offset" in the options menu
That way, (most i think?) people can set this as (0,0,0), whilst others who prefer it to be offset can give it a different value. Maybe the entire concept is not so good. Maybe it would be better to always duplicate objects just by dragging them, e.g. Ctrl+Drag will create a clone and move that. OTOH, I wanted to use Ctrl+Drag to select multiple objects in a future version. But that could still be achieved if the drag starts with an unselected object. If it starts with a selected object, the selected objects would be cloned. this sounds like an even better idea. Well I read the 'free for beer' part, and thought 'Well, I can't buy him a beer directly - where do I donate?!'. And I actually went looking for the Paypal donate button. But there was none. So....
If I thought of it, others must have (surely :) Maybe there'll be a few beers in it for you if you give us the means to buy you one! You see I tried the editor, and I was so impressed and excited that it's a live project, I thought it WAS worth a beer. Fribbles, I think your proposal will interfere with other actions which are done using the arrow keys. Also I don't like the clone + rotate options because it can create the same problem as duplicate in place if the brush is symmetric. Also I'm not sure how often it's necessary to clone + rotate in place. And it's not much more work to clone-drag, then rotate.
Is always welcome, and if any of you guys is ever in Berlin (or I am near your place), you can buy me as many beers as you like (and I can drink).
I know I'm late to the party, but I wanted to thank you for making this, porting it over and continuing to support it!
This editor is full of win. I'm waiting till I have more time to fully dive into it (ok, full disclosure, I also really need the free fly mode before I can really get into it - I'm just too accustomed to it because of Radiant and my editor at work). There's a lot to like here though! Quite frankly I'm amazed at how slick and easy to use this is. Top shelf! Yeah, the last commands are just fruity bonus ones (although I do use the dupe + moveup/down a fair bit at work in our editor). I understand that some of what I proposed differs from or conflicts with the current paradigm.
Another limitation/difference you will note is that I favour moving the objects up/down using CTRL+UP/DOWNARROW which conflicts with the rotation commands in TrenchBroom. My reasoning is that moving up and down is a much more common activity than rotating up/down. Of course, if the actions are there and can be remapped by the user, everybody wins. Thanks, I'm happy to hear that you like it. Flythrough mode will happen in 1.1, due in a couple of weeks.
And you will be able to customize the keyboard in 1.1, too, so there's no point in discussing the current selection of keyboard shortcuts ;-). I'll keep my stupid suggestions to myself then. (Oh yeah you wish!) Here's a few more random thoughts and what have you.
Copy/paste transform Useful for quickly repositioning objects or replacing stuff. "I want that thing over here." As you expect by now I offer key combo suggestions! CTRL+SHIFT+C = copy transform of currently selected object CTRL+SHIFT+V = paste selected object to saved transform Gizmos and widgets Stick to your guns and find the right solution for TrenchBroom. Let's be real and admit that certain things (such as small movement manipulators and fully mouse driven camera controls tee hee) can waste time and reduce productivity. Mouse wheel to resize stuff Just a suggestion. Get rid of the mouse wheel to zoom the view, and make it resize the brush according to the currently selected face. For example, select a face and mouse wheel up/down would effectively move that face positive/negative along its normal or the closest axis, whatever. Wheeeee! (The current method is fine, just for fun and freestyling.) Texture flip request Please make the flip operations work for the currently selected face (that is, change the scale to -1 (or negative<current value>) horizontally or vertically, whichever was chosen. Toggle it back to positive if it was already negative. Do this and you may genuinely never need to use the texture dialogue to enter manual offsets which would elicit a loud and hearty FUCK YES from everyone who ever used a level editor. Ok, two more things and then I'll shut up for the night.
Selecting objects Area select would be welcome of course, but please additionally consider paint select (both for brushes and faces) ala GtkR because it's just so fucking good. Toggle brush outlines Apologies if this has been mentioned (or can already be changed), but is there a way to toggle the white brush outlines? It's useful and I'd prefer to have it on most of the time, but sometimes I'd like to be able to turn it off to get a better idea of how things will look in game (or to see how well certain faces/textures sit with each other at the very edge, without the visual distraction). In terms of the duplicate argument I guess this is one time where I wouldn't be too opposed to a checkbox in the preferences:
[ ] Offset duplicates? Then it either offsets based on your grid settings or it doesn't. There seem to be strong opinions on each side of that one. You guys have to try the texture editing in Quark some day, because it rocks.
I also really miss the tree view of brushes and entities from it. It makes organising a map, selectively hiding or disabling parts, copy'n'pasting, mass changing things so easy. To appease rebb's brilliance and my idiocy it turns out I wasn't using his compiling tools at all, which is why it wasn't compiling func_groups properly. Sorry Rebb!
Duplication:
Maybe make the duplicated content selected and "moving" when moving the mouse. Leftclick places where it is shown, rightclick places it in the original location. Or paste it in place if the mouse cursor was on the selection. Otherwise place it at the mouse cursor. Copy/paste transform
Can you explain this a bit more? I don't quite understand what you mean. Mouse wheel resize I like the current control scheme and I think that the current way of resizing brushes is better (allows you to also change back faces). Texture flip That sounds useful - will implement this. Selecting objects If by paint select you mean "select everything touched by the mouse while holding Ctrl", then that's already on my todo list. Toggle brush outlines You can already do this in the view tab (Toggle "Render Edges"). You can switch these off, click "view" on the right and deselect "render edges"
I think if I get rid of the Duplicate command altogether and just let people use Ctrl+Drag to duplicate, that would elegantly resolve this discussion.
Texture editing will get an update in a future version where you will be able to move / rotate textures with the mouse. I also plan to add an "Align" button to the Face inspector which will align the texture to the brush edges (you can iterate through the edges by pressing the button repeatedly).
The tree view was in the Mac version of TB and it will eventually make a reappearance in this version. I'll leave it in if people want it, but I think that the most common operation is to duplicate something and then move it to another location. How is Ctrl+D + Mouse Drag more efficient than Ctrl+Mouse Drag?
SleepwalkR, the idea here is to simply copy the position of an object, allowing you to paste something to that location.
For example if you have a brush or entity at (64, 0, 128) for example, you could copy that position and then paste something to that location later (whether or not the original object is still there doesn't matter). It's useful for replacing objects sometimes, and also just to get some crap from the other side of the map to where you want to be quickly. The difference is, not everybody wants to drag it with the mouse. I'd prefer to use the keyboard shortcuts to move stuff when it makes sense to do so (for greater accuracy and/or speed).
This would be particularly true once you add the fly camera mode, so you could stay in that mode (assuming it's a toggle) and not have to turn it off to move something. (I'm assuming like Radiant and Hammer, you'd lock the cursor to the middle of the screen when engaging free fly mode so as not to allow it to drift out of the viewport). Interesting idea. But I think it already does this, because if you paste while something is selected, the pasted stuff is positioned such that the grid-snapped center of the bounds of the objects of the clipboard is at the same position as the grid-snapped center of the current selecction.
So the workflow would be like so: You go to the other end of the map and copy some shit. Then you go to its destination position, select something that's rougly where you want the copied shit to go, and paste. The only thing you can't do is repeadly transport objects to a target destination without returning to that destination. I guess this is where camera bookmarks, also a planned feature, will come in handy ;-). SleepwalkR
No, sorry, your idea sounds good. I was referring to the 3 duplicate answers in a row. :P I see the 'render edges' option now. I completely missed that before. Thanks everyone! (I will now request a keyboard shortcut to toggle it in a very small voice... please, sir...)
For duplicating, I like the sound of selecting and dragging something while holding a key (shift or whatever). That's a pretty comfortable method I've seen in various editors and 3d apps.
The complex multiple key methods and with fixed offsets always feel clunky. The texture argument is moot. Sorry. No matter how good a set of texture controls in another editor might feel, worldcraft wins because it has those extended controls for texture projection. (Yes, the ones that break Worldcraft compatability with everything else...) https://www.dropbox.com/s/l1go2qe6l3eakvg/texture_controls.PNG?m Those justify controls automatically scale and align the texture to the face. The align world/face controls change the projection to one that actually fits on a non-orthagonal surface. Aligning rotated textures is a doddle with the additional buttons for scale, rotation and shift. Replace is very powerful as well, allowing you to change all instances of a texture in a level with a few clicks, or just select all instances and modify how they;re aligned, scaled or whatever. For me at least, these controls made all the hassle of the valve 220 format worth it. If we could have that level of efficiency in texture application but not have to piss about converting textures then it'd be like mapping in the future. Frib, I'm not adverse to adding the copy + displace in one direction commands that you proposed.
I'm just saying that the duplicate command, whether it displaces by some constant amount in a direction that is dependent on the camera direction (the way it is now), or whether it doesn't displace at all, is not as useful because - either it puts stuff where you don't want it or - you might miss that you actually duplicated something (although the selection would flash white to give feedback) and end up with unwanted brushes. I agree that it should be possible to duplicate stuff with the keyboard, but it should give the user the option to control where the duplicated stuff goes. So Ctrl+Direction keys to duplicate with the keyboard and Ctrl+Mouse drag to duplicate with the mouse. Problem solved. One idea that I loved from Hammer when I was doing Left 4 Dead mapping is that Valve does this great this where it pastes to the spot you're pointing at with the mouse. This is HUGELY useful for items and deco stuff.
You already have really good code for pointing into the world (the clipping tool and vertex modes obviously use it), so that would be easy to implement. Interesting idea. But I think it already does this, because if you paste while something is selected, the pasted stuff is positioned such that the grid-snapped center of the bounds of the objects of the clipboard is at the same position as the grid-snapped center of the current selecction.
Hmm, it doesn't seem to do that for me (if it did, that would most likely be a fine solution as you suggest). It always pastes it at the same default distance from the camera here, and does not seem to be influenced in any way by the current selection. Not exactly a request, just thinking out loud. Would it be possible? I can't think of any alternatives to WC/Hammer for HL1, but an editor like TB could be interesting.
Food for thought when supporting other games, perhaps? The justify controls are what my Align button will do. The rest hinges on Valve 220 support, which is planned for release 1.2.
Texture replace is something that could be solved with the search filter. Just filter the map by the texture name you want to replace, select all faces, then switch to the face tab and select another texture. Not sure if that will work currently, as the search filter is quite rudimentary, but if it doesn't I'll be happy to implement it. Ctrl+Direction keys to duplicate with the keyboard and Ctrl+Mouse drag to duplicate with the mouse. Problem solved.
I understand now, and agree that that sounds like a good solution. I forgot to reply to that one.
The flythrough mode will allow you to keep editing. The cursor will be frozen in the center (as a crosshair), and you will be able to do anything just like before. Of course, moving stuff will also rotate the camera, but that doesn't seem to hurt as can be observed in this cool video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkFT1ra2w-A In 1.1, paste will just paste in the original position (if nothing else is selected). I like your idea and will try it out.
Way to go! I am all about good tool pipelines for game development. Imagine what folks would have done back in the day if the developer tools allowed such an intuitive environment for level authoring. This rocks! I cant say enough how much I appreciate this project.
I have a big soft spot for the older retro games but I have become spoiled by the likes of UDK and unity for level editing. Going back to the old editors lacking a proper 3d editing environment is a big hurdle these days. We are so used to more polished programs. I think you might just have injected new life into the older titles sir! If you add quake 2 support "KMquake2 entity support would be even better" then I would be lost for months on end making new content for that game. Cheers and keep up the great work! Thanks, and Quake 2 and Quake 3 support is on my todo list. Quite a number of people are asking for it, so I guess it will happen rather sooner than later.
I don't know about KMquake2, is it a mod? If so, all you need is a proper entity definition file (TrenchBroom will load Quake 2 and 3 are on my todo list. You're the second person to ask for Hexen 2 support. I have no idea what would be necessary to support that game though. But I'll look into it once I start supporting other games.
Thanks! The H2 community is pretty small but we'd all really appreciate it. I don't think there is that much of a difference between the engines, but I'll see if I can find any necessary details myself. Yes, that would be helpful. When the time comes, I can also talk to Ozkan Sezer, who develops the uHexen2 engine.
If anyone is wondering (and is making odd or very angular geometry) I have found the texture alignment on Tyr's tools to be more accurate when you use the -oldaxis command line argument on the bsp program. Dunno why this is though...
Maybe we should mention this in the docs:
- In txQBSP, you must NOT supply the -altAxis argument for TrenchBroom. - In Tyrann's tools, you must supply the -oldAxis argument for TrenchBroom. The reason is in the method to select the projection axis for the textures. I'll add this to the issue tracker so that we can add it to the docs. Well its a recompiled quake 2 engine with tons of extra features added. Indeed it has the
Cheers! Time to put away the Hammer and pick up the Broom.
Just when it seems like things are slowing down around here. Out comes all these wonderful new toys. Just noticed it's missing at least two standard entities: viewthing and misc_noisemaker. I suppose hardly anyone ever uses them, but they should be included still.
Would you be so nice? Just send me the definitions in an email so that I can add them to both FGDs.
It requires OpenGL 2.1 and GLSL 1.2. I should do a better job of detecting these things and not crashing, though.
These should work;
@PointClass size(-8 -8 -8, 8 8 8) color(0 255 0) = misc_noisemaker : "debug entity" [] @PointClass size(-8 -8 -8, 8 8 8) color(0 255 0) = viewthing : "fake player" [] The Appearflags base class adds spawnflags for skill levels. Or should they have any other properties?
Also, should they also be added to Quoth2.fgd? I cobbled those together, removing the baseclass since the fgd I took the syntax from has more involved baseclass' for various things.
I'm guessing you want these for entity hacks negke? I kind of know what opengl is, i dont know if my card supports 2.1 though, how do i find this out, should the manufacturer list this? Never heard about GLSL at al, same kind of thing? Something your gfxcard either can handle or not?
Basically if your cards original specs say that it can handle games with Shaders v2.0 then you "Should" be able to run this. It won't break anything to give it a try and see if this will run on your PC. In my case it stopped right after the console said something about loading shotgun.mdl.
You may need to update the video card drivers so that the card can handle Shaders 2.X but that's a software upgrade and I can't think of a reason why a 2.0 piece of hardware wouldn't be able to handle 2.X with the correct drivers. Without more information this is as good as it can get as far as help goes. If you have a year of manufacture, make and model number of the original PC (2005 Dell abc201 for example) then maybe you can get more assistance here. If you added a gfx card on your own then you need to go to their web site and find the latest driver package applies to that card. Note that it will probably be either Nvidia or ATI\Radeon based so even if you get a card from a third party they should still be able to use their drivers (but perhaps not their consoles but that's usually not a problem as most installers give you the option to not install those anyway and just install the drivers instead). I am loving the editor so far, but the lack of a 2D overview like in for example Radiant is annoying the hell out of me. There is no way to keep oversight on a big, complicated map with just the 3D view.
I think a 'free flying' camera mode was already suggested, so I'll not mention it. (Lies!) Thank you once again for this editor, after years of dealing with either shit like WorldCraft or shit like Radiant, this is just so awesome. One of the things I like most about Worldcraft is that to copy stuff you just shift + drag it to the new location. I find that so much better and more efficient than duplicate in place like in Maya, or duplicate with offset like in Radiant. It also has duplicate special that lets you copy and paste in place, or set rotations and offsets that accumulate from each copy (I never use this though, though I do in Maya.)
I'm aware that 3D only is bad for overview and I'm thinking about ways to improve it.
Than, drag-duplicate is on the feature list for 1.1. I think I find the opposite of what Lava Croft said is true, on bigger maps the 2d views simply become like muddled spaghetti, doing everything in 3d is making everything so much simpler (and fun, I'm enjoying every minute of mapping!).
Also, Than, you should try it. (I emailed you ages ago and I know you said you were going to take a break but this editor is so addictive, I'm not even going to reinstall Worldcraft). I had an idea, if you want to bash in a 2d mode why not have the 1,2,3 and 4 keys cycle through each grid plane? (that way you don't have to give up the real estate offered by a single window).
2d views are fairly easy since it will grey out brushes that are not also visible in the other viewports.
I miss a 2d overview in tb too, especially if you want to quickly draw some floor plan. hotkeys would rock. Yeah, I think some sort of 2d mode is essential when blocking out.
for example I always need to bang down a load of brushes at precise relative positions from each other. Currently, let's say you have 2 brushes at arbitrary positions - in radiant it's really easy to set their relative positions just by looking at them in the 2 views. In TB I can't really do this sort of positioning...unless I missing something obvious? The 2D mode would be a mini map that is either overlaid on top of the 3D view or shown in a separate window. It would not be used for editing at all, only to get an overview and for navigation.
Kinn, if you drag a brush, you will see laser beams coming from its bounding box. Those beams should help you to position brushes relative to each other. They are not useful for measuring the distance to other objects, but I can add that and show the distance to the closest object hit by a laser beam. What's funny is that I thought the laser beams were just graphical sugar at first but then I started leveraging them for positioning and aligning stuff and they're just absolute GOLD now.
yeah, I don't really find the laser beams help that much tbh.
What happens is i have to set a camera view, then move the brush so the laser beams appear to be lined up in that view. Except, chances are they won't be actually lined up, and i have to change camera view, then rinse/repeat until i've actually got them lined up. e.g. view 1: they look kinda lined up here: http://i.imgur.com/oaGALu6.png move the camera a bit though and see they are actually off in all 3 axes: http://i.imgur.com/LSijyg8.png I still think if you're going to implement 2d views you should bind the main viewport to cycle the axis using keys 1-4... hopefully this will be possible using custom key binds. I'm getting along fine right now without 2d, but it would help on the odd occasion that I need really fine-control over what I'm doing.
I agree that positioning brushes like this is cumbersome in 3D. It gets easier once you have more brushes, but if you're in the void, it doesn't work very well. Will have to think about that.
Cycling through 2D views - what for? The 2D view, as it is planned now, is only there for orientation. I specifically don't want to give the impression that you can use it for editing. I want to avoid that people try to click and drag objects in the 2D views. That would mean that the 3D only approach has failed. If eventually it turns out that you really can't map without fully functional 2D views, I'll reconsider them, but only as a last resort. Or maybe this editor isn't for everyone. Let's give everyone some time to get used to it, and then we'll see what happens. Meanwhile, if anyone has any ideas about how to improve the problems that Kinn is describing in post #273 WITHOUT falling back to 2D views, let's hear them! So, maybe you didn't notice it yet, but the laser beams leave a mark if they hit something. So if a laser beam hits a face, there will be a red dot where the face is hit.
But I think this doesn't work well if the laser beam hits face at an edge or vertex (sometimes the mark is shown, sometimes it isn't). If I were to improve this so that the hit mark is shown reliably, would that improve matters? I guess it will still be difficult to know where to move the brush if it isn't aligned, though. necros suggested freely positionable grid planes at some point. That would be a possible solution. The idea is that you can tell the editor to show a grid plane (either XY, XZ, or YZ) at a specific position which you can change with the mouse. Then you could basically just drop a grid wherever you need it and disable it again later. I personally think the editor is very good, but if you were to include a 2d view then I think it'd be fairly sweet if you could use the number keys 1-4 to cycle through the various 2d grids (and 3d viewpoint) kind of how the Opera browser allows you to cycle through open tabs using the 1-4 keys.
That being said I really am doing *very* well without the 2d grid. I'm about 75% complete on the geometry of my first TB map, even managed to make some lovely curved wall templates. :) Or maybe this editor isn't for everyone
Yes, THIS. :) Software becomes bloated and awful when it tries to be everything to everyone. Focused design is key to awesomeness - even if it leaves some users behind. I know i used to use a function in some modelling app - can't remember what it was - maybe solidworks?
Anyway - let's say you select a brush - brush A, and then ctrl-select a second brush - brush B. I remember I then had options, something like: "Align A to B in Y-axis", or "Align A to B in Z-axis" etc etc. It's a bit clunky though. I would like to have some tutorials available for new users. There are several options:
- Included in the documentation as text + images. - Hosted on a wiki to be set up on my website. - Youtube videos (Daz, I'm looking at you!) I'm thinking that there should be a combination of these. The editor should come with simple tutorials such as "My first room" and "How to compile my shit" etc. More advanced stuff should go in a wiki so that we can keep it up to date easily. Daz, seriously, I dig your videos, so if you are up for it and find the time, I'd love it if you were to make a video tutorial or two. Your narration is also quite good, unlike mine which sounds like a steamrolled duck. That indeed sounds a bit clunky because you have to think about which axis is which first. By I hadn't even considered alignment buttons, so I'll think about it - maybe I can find a way to make them work well.
Yes, THIS. :) Software becomes bloated and awful when it tries to be everything to everyone. Focused design is key to awesomeness - even if it leaves some users behind.
That depends on what the design goal is - if the goal is "be the best quake editor that only has a 3d view", then yes, but if the goal is "be the best quake editor", then you have to consider whether 2d views are a worthwhile addition. I love that idea! Why not it snap to the face of the brush? Like the Alt + Click for textures?
So you select the face of the brush using shift + click, and then hold say M (for move) + click and it will push the faces together. i was just about to post a similar suggestion - yes align to face - that would be elegant
That is not the problem Kinn is trying to solve. He wants to be able to align two brushes with each other, but only in two dimensions. They should keep a certain distance to each other.
Kinn, if I'm not mistaken you want this so that you can block out your layouts. Wouldn't it be easier to start with the floors though? Once you have a floor in place, it's much easier to keep the brushes aligned. so face A on brush A shares the same plane with face B on brush B
they wouldn't be pushed together, Brush A would be moved just so the faces line up on the plane of face B But that would only work if the two faces have the same normal.
I'm not so sure about this. It sounds like it's only of limited use. And you'd have to do it twice to have the brushes line up in two dimensions. the earlier idea where you can only snap to one of the ortho axes of brush A's bounds is probably better.
Once the faces are next to each other it wouldn't take much more effort to to press alt/click to line the other axis together. I think it'd work.
You have to select a different face, then click on the face you want to align again. If you want to align several brushes, it gets even more cumbersome.
And it will only work if the faces have the same normal. There must be a better way. what about showing coordinates of vertices the mouse pointer hovers and allow the user to move a brush by selecting it and typing in the coordinates (autocad style, just 123,53,67)? then one could fairly easily make two brushes/selections placed similarly as needed. the problem here would be determining what base point to use.
The coordinates are already shown when you hover over a vertex in vertex mode. But moving brushes by entering the deltas? I don't like that very much, I think a "align on XY / XZ / YZ" buttons would be better than that.
you're moving brushes around by typing numbers into boxes and suddenly it's getting a bit ugly and cumbersome.
I was going to weigh in on this one before, but didn't because I haven't been using the editor recently and so haven't seen the latest versions.
A 2D view should instead be described as a layout view or, better yet, and overview - just because this is the objective you're describing SleepwalkR. I agree with Willem in that the goal of the editor should remain the same since this focus will produce a and more elegant end result. An overview could easily be described as a 3D camera thats far away from the level. So in other words, you just zoom out. Or select a secondary camera that you placed wherever was best for seeing the overall layout. This doesn't work for brushes because they have visible faces on all sides - you can't see what's inside the level unless you set some sort of 'editor skip' texture on the outside that doesn't get drawn. Just a random idea. Automatically detecting what's inside or outside a level on the fly would be like dynamically vising it. Which probably isn't a good idea. And would probably break anyway with a WIP level that's being blocked out. Another idea would be selecting groups of brushes and being able to assign them (another WC feature!) visgroups. So the user can just hide colelctions of brushwork as they see fit. Then snap to various cameras to see the layout. A 2D view would obligate having various 2D views - imagine looking at The Living End or Skinny Norris in an editor and you'll have completely different things to look at, ones that an orthographic 2D view isn't 100% suited to, I suspect. I suspect that 2D (or rather orthographic projection) is better suited for an overview mode simply because there's less visual clutter. To see what I mean, go to the View tab and set it not to render the faces, then zoom out of a larger level. You can't make out anything.
In a 2D view with ortho projection, there would be less clutter because points on edges with the same X and Y coordinates get drawn only once. Look at a cube from above with ortho projection and it's a square. However, even if you do this, if there is a lot of geometry stacked on top of each other, you're still going to have problems to use this as an overview. I have been thinking about this problem and I guess what you need is a way to limit what is drawn in the 2D view by discarding everything that is not in a certain range on the Z axis. Then you can limit the map to a certain "storey" of your level. Add to that the ability to zoom in and zoom out and to place the (3D view's) camera, and this should be a helpful addition. Think of this 2D view as the inverse of what the 3D view was in early editors, where it was mainly used to get an impression of how things will look in the game, and not a view where you did your editing. Now you do all your editing in the 3D view, but use the 2D view to an idea of the level's structure and to quickly navigate to different locations in the level. I'm just not sure how to integrate this into the UI yet. There are several options: - Additional window, possible floating above the main window. - Integrate it into the editor UI, possibly below the inspector. - Make it an overlay over the 3D view that you toggle on and off with a keystroke. - The overlay could either be as large as the entire 3D view or - The overlay could be smaller and just be in the upper right corner of the 3D view. Another option could be to have a shortcut that enables a mode where the camera orbits around the entire level at a great distance. In this mode, the mouse wheel would not let you move the camera forward or backward, but it would control the distance between the camera and a "clipping plane".
This clipping plane will then be used to remove from the view everything that is closer than the plane's distance from the camera. (For OpenGL afficionados: Similar to the near clipping plane). That way you could slice away stuff from your level and look into it. There should also be a way to quickly leave this mode and transport the camera to a point of your choosing. This would completely avoid the need for a 2D view, at least for the issue of the overview over the entire level. Thoughts? Perhaps a 2Dish view integrated into the 3D environment where the camera switches to a front/top/side that's fixed with the axes. Like in isometric strategy games that allow you to watch the playfield from straight above. When active, the textures could become 75% transparent and the grid lines more prominently visible. Ideally with an adjustable farclip to make it less messy.
SleepwalkR
You mentioned needing tutorials and such. You might want to touch base with Alex over at: http://www.worldofleveldesign.com/ I bet he'd be willing to do a whole series on TrenchBroom it should support 2.0 vertex shader and pixel shader support. Just checked the start up process, and mine crashes after the shotgun.mdl. Il try reinstalling the card
Smooth 3d camera view! I never knew what I was missing using WC 1.6b all this time :)
This is seriously excellent work SleepwalkR! However, as a Wacom tablet user I find the camera navigation a bit of a pain in the ass because I don't have a scroll whell on my mouse. Is there any chance you could make the camera controls adjust when the alt key is pressed (assuming this doesn't get in the way of anything else)? I'm thinking holding alt would make the middle mouse and moving the mouse/pen move the camera forward and backward. Anyone else use a Wacom for everything (not just photoshop/zbrush etc)? More extensive filters and perhaps even some kind of visgroups like system would great, though I've not exactly spent much time with the editor yet, so I don't know quite what is and isn't possible. One other thing I thought I had posted already, but maybe not, is that WC handles cloning by shift + drag object. This works great, though WC is a 2d editor, and the drag clone makes perfect sense in 2d, wheras it might be hard to do correctly in 3d. I did mention the shift drag thing :)
Looking forward to trying 3d only editing now. I'm going to go through the docs and build a simple map I think. By the way, I love how easy the set up is, and that TB uses the wadstring of the I just use Ctrl + D to dupe objects... It's fairly quick to get something good whipped up.
I'm thinking of asking my friend to help me make a tutorial video (I can make levels but I can't make videos... wtf). This is seriously excellent work SleepwalkR!
Thanks! However, as a Wacom tablet user I find the camera navigation a bit of a pain in the ass because I don't have a scroll whell on my mouse. Is there any chance you could make the camera controls adjust when the alt key is pressed (assuming this doesn't get in the way of anything else)? I'm thinking holding alt would make the middle mouse and moving the mouse/pen move the camera forward and backward. This is a good idea. I will include this in 1.0.5, to be released in a couple of days. More extensive filters and perhaps even some kind of visgroups like system would great, though I've not exactly spent much time with the editor yet, so I don't know quite what is and isn't possible. TrenchBroom currently lacks a proper group / layer system, but this is on the todo list. It will be based on func_groups, which I plan to extend so that you can add entities to them (currently a func_group can only contain brushes). This also gives you the ability to have hierarchical groups. Add to that a group browser where you can quickly hide and lock groups and it should be really powerful. One other thing I thought I had posted already, but maybe not, is that WC handles cloning by shift + drag object. This works great, though WC is a 2d editor, and the drag clone makes perfect sense in 2d, wheras it might be hard to do correctly in 3d. Yeah, this is on the todo list for 1.1. God I fucking love this editor. Feels a bit clunky now, but that's just because I'm not used to it yet. Feels so fucking modern and awesome... I've been using WC 1.6a (last version 1998...) since I started mapping and have yet to find an editor I liked more. Trenchbroom is still lacking some of the nicer features of WC, but it's really amazing so far and has a lot of things WC 1.6a will never have, such as 3 point clipping and 3d editing that works (WC 1.6a actually has 3d editing for some modes, such as vertex manipulation, but it sucks)
+ shortcut to hide selection highlight and outlines + flat render mode should probably have shading based on face + camera normal I wonder how you could go about implementing some kind of visgroup style system without breaking the map format. One thing you could do is perhaps have a func_group for each area you want to group that could have an name key that would be handled by Trenchbroom so that it is automatically loaded into visibility groups on map load and regrouped on save. This would presumably allow it to stay compatible with compilers, and with better filters, there would be no real need to have visgroups that support entities like WC has. However, you would need to be able to filter much better than you can currently. For example, filter by flags (e.g. not in dm, skill level), target, targetname, entity type (not just built in types) and perhaps even combinations would be amazing. Also, a mode that renders faces with flagged textures as wireframe or translucent would be quite nice; It would be useful to be able to draw skip faces simply as wireframe for instance. Awesome! Are you planning on adding more extensive filters?
Btw, sorry I couldn't help with the Linux port. I wanted to but couldn't get it building, no matter how hard I tried :/ Your vertex/edge editing mode is amazing! Fucking love it. WC worked ok, since you could select multiple vertices at once and use box selection on them for fairly quick editing, but it was horrible to use in the 3d view and didn't auto clump vertices, so editing rocks was a pain in the arse. TB handles this really well.
Clipper is just unbelievable too! I love how clean and stable everything feels too! You guys have done a great job and I will probably switch over to TB and get mapping soon and help as much as I can with testing and feature suggestions, though if I have time I would love to actually try helping implement features. Maybe it's just my weird brain, but grid shortcuts make more sense as powers of two btw. Since you can't map ctrl + 256, maybe ctrl+1 = 2 (2^1), ctrl+2 = 4 (2^2) etc. would make more sense. Is there any point in having grid size 1?
The only reason I am mentioning this is because I have a Japanese keyboard and ctrl + and ctrl - don't work :/ + and - work in WC 1.6a, but they are assuming my keyboard is US I think. + shortcut to hide selection highlight and outlines
Outlines can be hidden in the View tab, doesn't that also hide the selection outline? Oh, you want a shortcut for it. Okay, will add to the issue tracker. + flat render mode should probably have shading based on face + camera normal I have added this to the issue tracker. I wonder how you could go about implementing some kind of visgroup style system without breaking the map format. func_groups get names and some status bits (hidden, locked etc.). If an entity is added to a group, it gets a key such as "_group" = "<name of that group>". That's all. Other editors will not understand it, but it won't bother them either. QBSP ignores all keys that start with an underscore. Also, a mode that renders faces with flagged textures as wireframe or translucent would be quite nice; It would be useful to be able to draw skip faces simply as wireframe for instance. This is already on the todo list. Awesome! Are you planning on adding more extensive filters? Yes, definitely. Btw, sorry I couldn't help with the Linux port. I wanted to but couldn't get it building, no matter how hard I tried :/ No problem. I have fixed most issue with the Linux port, but I'm having trouble creating binaries for it. It seems that the compilation process is not compatible with how you create debian packages, so I'll have to write / adapt the makefiles. If anyone is versed in this, or knows someone who might be able to help out, I'd appreciate a shout. Maybe it's just my weird brain, but grid shortcuts make more sense as powers of two btw. Since you can't map ctrl + 256, maybe ctrl+1 = 2 (2^1), ctrl+2 = 4 (2^2) etc. would make more sense. Is there any point in having grid size 1?
You will be able to customize all keyboard shortcuts in 1.1. I love how clean and stable everything feels too! You guys have done a great job and I will probably switch over to TB and get mapping soon and help as much as I can with testing and feature suggestions, though if I have time I would love to actually try helping implement features. Thanks again. The stability and level of polish is largely necros' achievement, he did lots and lots of testing for me and he was also a great help to get the user interface to be coherent. Coherence is a big thing for me, and I think it's one of the main reasons why the editor is so slick. If you want to help out with programming, that would make me very happy. I'm doing this all alone in my free time, and it would be great to offload a bit of work here and there. I suggest that you create a fork on github as soon as you're ready and look at the source. Then you can claim a feature request on the issue tracker and start banging away. Once you're done, you just send me a pull request and I will integrate your changes in the master branch. If you have any questions or need an introduction into TB's architecture and design, let me know and we can schedule a skype session or something. Maybe it's just my weird brain, but grid shortcuts make more sense as powers of two btw. Since you can't map ctrl + 256, maybe ctrl+1 = 2 (2^1), ctrl+2 = 4 (2^2) etc. would make more sense. Is there any point in having grid size 1?
The only reason I am mentioning this is because I have a Japanese keyboard and ctrl + and ctrl - don't work :/ + and - work in WC 1.6a, but they are assuming my keyboard is US I think. (btw, sorry for that repost, I refreshed the page and something fucked up)
I'll fork it once I've had a bit more of a play with it and have a good idea of what things I would like to see in it. I wanted to make my own editor a while ago, and also wanted to do some open source stuff lately, so this would be a perfect project to help on :) I'll shut up after this and start adding these ideas and feature requests in a sensible place, but some kind of export map support would actually be helpful I feel. Basically, have a button that saves the map to a default location with a set name without making Trenchbroom start to use that file as the current map would be great for compiling.
I'm not sure how many people do this, but I have a batch file set up for compiling that always uses a default file that I export from WC (always quake\id1\maps\current.map) and being able to auto save to this file would be handy. Currently if I save to that file, trenchbroom then continues editing with that file as the live file, which is not really what I want to do. If this is something other people would like perhaps it would be a good thing to add? I like the 3d-only concept but I can't figure out how to do the simplest of things. Forgive my ignorance, it's been literally years since I've done any mapping.
1 - Since there's only the 3d view, when i click and drag to make a new brush, what determines what axis i'm dragging on? The camera angle? 2 - How do I resize a brush? When I select it it seems I can only move it or select individual faces. Is it only by vertex editing? Because- 3 - Similar to #1- I was trying to mitre two brushes together and just dragging the two corner vertices on a single brush never actually put them where I wanted. Is this just a matter of using clipping instead? The first brush in the empty void is always a bit of a pain.
You can pull brush faces across a plane by holding shift and click/drag. No idea what you mean by mitre two brushes... you can select vertex editor by pressing V. You should have a look at the documentation. It's all in there. But as I hate the "RTFM" folks, here are some pointers:
1 - Depends on what you're clicking on. If you start the drag in the void, then it's the camera angle. If you start your drag on another brush, it's the plane of the coordinate system that is most similar to the face's boundary plane. 2 - Hold Shift and move the mouse next to or on top of the face that you want to move. The face that will be moved is highlighted with a white outline. Then start dragging with the left mouse button to move that face. 3 - Vertices are only moved by fixed offsets and are not automatically snapped to the grid. If that is what you want, you must hold Shift while dragging the vertex. If you want to move the vertices vertically, you need to hold Alt while dragging. That sounds like an obscure feature to me. If you can muster up other people who want this, then I'll add it, otherwise I'd rather leave it out because it's something you can easily change in your batch file.
Do other editors actually support this workflow? I thought of a simpler way this could be done than adding additional controls, although it'd only work for entities. How about hiding or not via keyvalues - say, everything with the name 'key_door' or of the class 'func_door'.
Just a series of bitflags, really, although detecting the targetnames of stuff would be more difficult. I am in talks with a friend who makes professional videos about making a few tutorial vids. Hopefully I can get it done, might not be straight away though.
That would be a use case for filtering, but groups are different. I think there are other reasons to make groups:
1. You want to be able to quickly select objects that belong together because they form an architectural feature, such as a door incl. its frame. The goal is to edit them as a group. 2. You want to be able to quickly hide stuff that forms an entire part of the level, such as a bunch of rooms with the interconnecting corridors. The goal is to unclutter the view. I want to implement both functions using func_groups because then I can get by without extending the map format. As for additional controls, I think this could be nicely integrated with the planned map browser (tree of all objects in the map). Not sure yet. In any case, groups would have additional checkboxes for hiding and locking them individually. I've done a bit of debian packaging (and know people who have done a _lot_), I'll try to take a look at some point. It probably won't be until April though. so if someone beats me...
Hello again. I have one question about rotation. Do you think you could add the option to use local object space for brush rotation? It would be nice to rotate the object and have the gizmo update with it instead of the default world space rotation axis.
I use this a lot in normal 3d modeling when placing decoration bits. It sure would make things like fallen over pillars easier to place with the ability to adjust their spin on their local z axis after you rotate them at odd angles. That would only work for one session with the rotation tool as brushes don't have local coordinate systems. And since you can achieve the same result be reordering your rotations, I don't think it's necessary?
Oh, that would be great. I plan to change the dependencies so that you don't have to make your own build of wxWidgets on Linux anymore, maybe it will be easier then.
Worldcraft only has it because it uses its own map format that is not compatible with the compilers. Because of this, I can happily work away in my
Maybe I can support it in my batch file, though the problem is that the working map file name changes based on map and version (e.g. map1_01, map1_02...) and detecting that in the batch file is fiddly perhaps, though I've never looked into it. Adding the feature to the editor would require an export option adding to the file menu and potentially an export location adding to the preferences (always export to the same place so that exporting is a single click away). As you said though, it might be an obscure feature, and I'm not really sure how everyone else tends to build. Since building isn't handled from TrenchBroom, and probably shouldn't be anyway, it seems like a simple feature that would be handly for streamlining the build process, that's all. Anyway, if you think some kind of export feature would be ok but don't want to spend time implementing it, I could try perhaps? Currently I'm just getting the project set up. It might be worth getting a code::blocks project set up for windows for those who don't have VS and want to fiddle with the code. I had to install 2012 to test a friend's game, but the install process is insane and it eats up 13gb of disk space. I'm going to look into that if there isn't one already. "Export" implies a different map file format, which this is not. Maybe a "Save copy..." menu item could be added to the file menu though.
Regarding Code::Blocks, yeah, that would be cool. Not sure how easy it will be to set up the dependencies (wxWidgets mostly), though. Seems quantal only has packages of wxwidgets 2.8, I presume 2.9 is a hard requirement? Some dude has a PPA with 2.9 in:
https://launchpad.net/~sven-eckelmann/+archive/ppa-wxwidgets2.9 Does that look new enough? That's why I suggested a kind of on/off system, searching by entity fields - it wouldn't invalidate the
Haven't thought through the ramifcations properly though, so no idea how difficult it would be to code. seems that code::blocks can import the sln file without any problems. I have to get wxwidgets properly installed before I can compile, but this is a good start. Once I get it compiling I'll post a little set up guide for anyone else that wants to look at the code and fiddle with it.
Yes, 2.9 is a hard requirement because I use components which are not present in 2.8. I wanted to try these:
http://www.codelite.org/LiteEditor/WxWidgets29Binaries#toc1 I have no idea how up to date they are, though. I'll try the ones you found as well. Look at Windows/Build.txt for exact instructions on which files to get for wxWidgets and where to put them.
After I clicked build twice? I got some error about SIZEOF_LONG the first time... now I disappear for a month :)
I would be fine with it being once a session. Or maybe add another file that sits external from the map format for this type of addition? That way you don't need to break the map format but can store info in an accompanying file. It would be lovely stuff.
Either way still cant say enough how much I love this editor. Rocks my socks off! I have added a feature request for session-wise local coordinate systems, but I won't make them persistent. That would add too many new problems.
This code in Include/freetype/config/ftconfig.h:
#if defined SIZEOF_LONG #undef SIZEOF_LONG #endif #define SIZEOF_LONG 4 looks a bit suspicious on my 64 bit system :) fucking wxwidgets!
This again! I can't figure out how to get wxWidgets to work with code blocks. It's such a horrible fucking nightmare to get it working correctly. still no luck. I got rid of the wxwidgets simply by copying setup.h from the wxwidgets lib/gcc/msw/wx folder to the include/wx folder, but now I am getting an error saying va_list has not been declared (String.h 97)
No idea what I'm doing wrong, but this is the kind of thing that always puts me off doing c++ programming. Environment setup is fucking shit and makes me very annoyed :/ More random, non-rtf, feature ideas:
- display the size of the selected texture in the tex window - always show the current grid size somewhere (as a number) - specific filter option for skills + deathmatch (may be something for the fgd to allow similar filters with different games) - possibly status bar? - minigame to pass the compiling time (tetris) Another idea I'm throwing out there. What if upon starting a new map, there is always a single 4x4x4 brush at 0,0,0? This might prevent some disorientation when placing your first brush since there's already one there for reference.
Excuse me if this had already been suggested, kinda skimmed through the recent posts. Maybe even provide a whole little textured room with a light source (like Quark ;) ;) ). Then one has a way to test the compiling pipeline easily.
- A tablet version is a very interesting idea that I have thought about a lot, but I decided it's not within my means for the time being.
- Texture size, grid size, specific filter options for skills + DM; noted. - Status bar is a no, but I will add something similar (but better). - Minigame, cool idea actually. ;-) Quakis, excellent idea! Tablet version - every time I pick up my iPad I think, "Man, it'd be neat if TrenchBroom worked on this thing". :P
I can imagine two use cases for a tablet.
First, of course, as a standalone editing tool. It would surely be cool to be able to directly touch and manipulate the objects in the map. There is only one problem with it: Your fat fingers. Yes, yours. Because they obstruct your view of what you're actually doing. One idea to overcome this would be to automatically move / rotate the camera when you touch something so that it becomes visible again, yet reacts to your gestures. Second, it would be cool as an additional input device for TrenchBroom on a desktop PC, because I guess somethings are still easier to do with a pointing device that's not your fat finger, and somethings are much more intuitive to do with the fingers (rotation!). I've not tried TrenchBroom yet, so I don't know. But, I would like to say:
I used the Quest level editor for many years, instead of QERadiant and GTKRadiant. Why? Because I was able to make a map 10x faster, using Quest's controls. I take an interest in TrenchBroom because of the single 3D view, because that is how I did it in Quest. In Quest, I always fullscreen one of the views, and I would use the keys to navigate, and a key to switch from 3d to grid view. The key for switching to grid view was very powerful for me, because I often used the grid to line things up better and visually measure stuff better. The view in Quest was restricted to 90-degree angles only. I loved this. You could also turn off restrictive view and then rotate the camera to any angle you wish. But, I was always in restrictive view mode, 90-degree camera angles only. To move around, I used "A" and "Z" which is Zoom In and Zoom Out in grid view, or Forward and Backward in 3d view. The arrow keys "UP" and "DOWN" were for Panning up and down in grid view, and flying up or down in 3d view. Same goes for the "LEFT" and "RIGHT" arrow keys. The keys to turn the camera 90-degrees to any direction, my favourite keys and these were critical to my 10x speed of mapping, were the key combinations of "ALT+LEFT_ARROW" to rotate camera 90-degrees to left. Same goes for any "ALT+{ARROW_KEY}" combination to rotate the camera 90-degrees towards that direction arrow key you pressed. Same goes in grid view, the view would rotate as well. I'd like to keep this in mind, and see what you can do about having your editor provide the same type of usability controls as what I've described. Thanks! I'm sorry if this will sound harsh, but the last thing I want to do with TrenchBroom is make it work like another editor that clearly follows a different UI approach.
I suggest that you try TrenchBroom and forget about how Quest works. Use it with an open mind. If it doesn't work for you, then there are plenty other editors out there. So, you didn't think about what I said.
You didn't even give it a thought--nevermind the particular keys being used--but no thought of having an option to restrict the view to 90-degree angles-only and using key combinations to rotate the camera 90-degrees to any direction, and keys to move and pan around at high speeds. Keys, keys, keys. Instead, you closed your mind, and immediately responded with a generic and vague "im not changing my editor." liner. Okay. The big difference with quark vs (afaik) all other editors is that there is a tree view of the entire map where you see individual entities and brushes as nodes in the tree, grouped by brush entities or user made group folders.
qED had this too. it was otherwise a pretty lousy editor but that part was nice; you could move brushes between entities or groups by dragging the nodes around, and you could name the groups too (or the brushes, if you were an OCD masochist with time to burn) lack of proper group support puts me off diving into TB just yet but pleased to see plans are in place for that. that said i'm eager to try out some of the terrain construction demonstrated above :) The controls will be fully customisible in newer versions. But if you want an editor exactly like Quest then why not use Quest? Simple really.
Also, you haven't used the editor by your own admission so why do you think you could improve something you haven't yet tried? SleepwalkR, wouldn't a 4x4x4 square be a little small? How about a room that is 256x256x128? SleepwalkR, wouldn't a 4x4x4 square be a little small? How about a room that is 256x256x128?
or just a customisable start template? is 64x64x16. That's enough to give the user orientation and something to interact with.
rj, I'm not sure what good a customizable template would do. Also, the tree view is on the todo list. If you read this thread then you would know that I give a lot of ideas a lot of thought if they make sense in the context of this editor. If they don't, then I dismiss them or modify them until they do.
Your suggestions don't work well with the workflow of TrenchBroom, which is why I dismissed them. I have a very specific vision for TrenchBroom. If that works for you, then fine, and if it doesn't, then also fine because there are many other editors out there for you to choose from. Also, the tree view is on the todo list.
i did notice :) was just briefly reminiscing and yeah it was a bit of a retarded suggestion on hindsight. also the last one i make until i try the damn thing... I know it's not a typical gaming video card, but I'm able to playing modern games on it, including TF2--which uses quake engine as well.
So, I must wonder, why TrenchBroom crashes when I press "V" for vertex editing mode, and shows an error like this: http://pastebin.com/UCNGUYMB - mainly the last 10 lines of that paste; so, lines 94 to 103. "ERROR: 22:1: '' : extension 'GL_EXT_gpu_shader4' is not supported" What is that? Sounds like it is video card related. But, just seems odd to me that my video card cannot display, but my video card can play games just fine. The crash always happens when I press "V" on a selected brush. This video shows me using TrenchBroom for the first time, and my initial reactions to anything I see or encounter. My first impressions.
I also do a bit of editing with brushes, and textures in this video. Perhaps someone might find this interesting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1fEQXDPnpo Title: "First time, Part 1: Install, Setup, and Experiment | TrenchBroom" Hello again, just wandered in here again after a late night of mad brush work inside Trenchbroom. I noticed one thing when working with a large collection of brushes forming a single surface. It can become tricky to line up textures especially when dealing with so many brushes.
So what I was wondering is if there are any plans to add some basic texture projection options? Like selecting a bunch of faces over a series of brushes and then unifying their mapping with planer projection based on an average normal? Would it also be possible to add the ability to adjust mapping of faces with a gizmo when you have a surface selected instead of using the offset and rotation settings? That would keep you in the viewport without having to get lost in menus. It could be just like the rotate or vertex edit modes but for texture adjusting. Select a surface and then start rotating and scaling the texture right there instead of juggling numbers. This and the basic projection options would be kick ass for helping manage texture alignments for more complex constructions like terrain. Cheers and again thanks for this epic editing software. I totally lost track of time last night... I'm not sure what you mean by your first suggestion. You cannot change the way textures are projected in Quake.
Texture manip. with the mouse is on the todo list. Regarding texture project I am talking about tools in your editor to help manipulate the already build in data that controls the Uv coordinates that is all. No new engine additions for quake itself just handy tools to mass adjust and sync texture orientations and scale with each other. Does that make more sense?
But you can select multiple faces and adjust the texture parameters in the face inspector already. I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean exactly.
Some notes:
- Font rendering is broken on your system. This will be fixed in a future version. This has happened to other people as well. - Shift+Left Drag on Edge and Face handles doesn't work so well. It does not snap the individual vertices of the edge or face to the grid. In these cases, you should move the individual vertices. - To make a vertex align with another vertex (maybe of another brush), select both brushes, double click the vertex to be aligned and drag it onto the other vertex. - Generally it is preferable to have vertices on the grid (maybe on a larger grid size than 1). Makes lots of things easier. - Vertices need laser beams, too. That should make it easer to line them up. Regarding across multiple faces (with the same texture) what I normally do is select the first texture face and make my adjustments and then alt+click the other faces so the settings are carried over.
I really struggled to watch the video once you started editing stuff in 1x1 grid mode... I don't even like going down to 8x8 unless I really need to, it's just way too much hassle to get things done correctly/accurately.
font-family: Helvetica; will fallback to the default font if the user does not have Helvetica (such as your beloved Linux users). Change it to font-family: Helvetica, Arial, DejaVu sans, sans-serif; or something like that. Right now I get an ugly serif font.
Hey guys, been a while :-)
(I'm this guy: http://www.rudolfkremers.com/q/quake.html) Kristian! Ach mein GOTT! This editor loooks amazing.I may have to give that a spin when I find some time. (Admittedly this will take a while) I have a sequel 99% finished
But it has been lying dormant on my harddisk for about ten years or more.. Thanks for your response.
Here is another video, Part 2 of my first time, using the clipping/cutting/slicing tool. This video is not as long. Only half long as previous one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgPq3-lEdGc Title: "TrenchBroom: First time, Part 2: Brush Cut/Clip/Slice, Experimenting." I have a part 3 video that is uploading right now, showing how I compile the map. In case anyone finds that interesting. Part 3 video, "Compiling the Map"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEaJLtBv-4g Title: "TrenchBroom: First time, Part 3: Compiling the Map" I have another video uploading now, showing me creating a one-room map from scratch with items, lighting, spawnpoints, and an exit. fyi: You are supposed to be able to type directly into the map textbox like you did originally, but it's bugged and requires you to use that [...] button. Sorry for the confusion.
New video: "Making a Map"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRVE3ygsM9Q with items, lighting, spawnpoints, and an exit. Being limited to just 3D mode makes it a chore to edit the maps. 2D grid views exist in other editors for a reason. I think it is silly to talk about the "NO 2D grid view" as if it is a great feature. I personally love the fact that you are making a new editor for Quake, but I personally think this design decision was a mistake. There are just so many things that that much easier to do in a 2D grid view and can be done much faster as well. I really suggest putting that kind of a feature into the game.
I agree, hakkarin. A grid view switch would be nice.
I used the "F" hotkey a lot, in Quest editor. Because the "F" key would switch to flat grid view, and/or switch back. The grid view made many things a lot easier and quicker to do. Easy for author of TrenchBroom to do? Perhaps. The grid view would just be the same as the 3d view, but be FLAT. Basically just rotate/snap camera to a 90-degree angle for a "forward view" and then display flat frame/layer of the 3d view as a 2d view--and you still have same functionality as before. He's referring to the video "Compiling a Map", where I used a 3rd-party tool for compiling and in that tool there is a way to select your *.map but it also provides a textfield. Most people would click the "..." button, but I tried to type the path directly into the textfield, but the path didn't save--didn't select the map file.
TrenchBroom: Create a Spiral Staircase - Experiment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p29wbvatKkY TrenchBroom: Create/Import Spiral Staircase into TrenchBroom from another Editor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpGsBb6EPZQ deqer
I love that you're making videos for the editor but, man That's the tutorial I used to make curves in my maps. :D
I don't know if the curved pipe tutorial works in TB though, haven't tried it yet. :P The concepts will work but you can't create cylinders yet so you can't follow it directly. You can memorize the ratios and proportions and use the clipping tool to get the same results though.
Willem, my videos aren't official tutorial videos. I just "wing it" as I go.
Most of my videos are titled to indicate that as well, with titles like "First time." and "Experiment." As you can see in my second staircase video, I used my old editor to create a perfect spiral staircase in just a few minutes, by using circle brushes. I know they aren't official. Just passing along some critique for you. I assume you'd like people to watch these since you're taking the time to upload them
Spirit: "http://www.quaketerminus.com/hosted/happymaps/curv_tut.htm"
Nah. That tutorial looks stupid. Thanks though. I agree, Willem. I'm making a better video now; and it will only be 3 minutes long this time. :)
Willem, I updated the description of that long staircase video to make it clear that it's not a solution.
New description is: "NOTE: I don't actually succeed in creating the spiral staircase in this video. However, I show a technique for creating a perfect circle shape. So, then you use the circle shape as a reference and trace over it with your new brushes for stairs and walls. " Alright Willem, he's a 5min version.
Note, that I don't actually use TrenchBroom to create the spiral stairs. I just show how I would do it in another editor, and then import it into TrenchBroom. "TrenchBroom: Create/Import Spiral Stairs in 5 minutes." http://youtu.be/LYkqpwxRQjY "Key bindings" feature was just pushed to their repository, an hour ago.
https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/compare/master...issue237_customization#L6R330 You can see the list of all the features that will be configurable through the new Preferences->Keybinds window/frame they've recently added as well. You can see they uploaded new icon graphics for it as well. Icon/picture of a keyboard. --- And of course, having "key bindings" feature also allows us to define keys for functions that don't have keys bound by default. For example, "Snap all vertices" has no key bound by default in the current version of TrenchBroom, but with new version of TB I could now set a key to this, such as CTRL+N, and use it! Would a command that makes a selection (collection of 2 or more vertices, 1 or more edges or 1 or more faces) planar on X, Y, Z be useful to anyone besides me?
Note that this brings up the problem of axis selection again... Although I haven't bothered to try recompiling TrenchBroom under windows, I went back to the Linux version, and followed the steps listed in build.txt.
I discovered that wx/setup.h was not found because of an incorrect path in the build options->compiler settings->other options panel where the wxWidgets directories are set. -I$(#WXWIN)/build-debug/lib/wx/include/gtk2-unicode-static-2.9 does not exist after I make wxWidgets, but I instead had gtk 3, so I changed it to -I$(#WXWIN)/build-debug/lib/wx/include/gtk3-unicode-static-2.9 This started to compile fine, but when it tried to link wxWidgets I got the following error: "Linking executable: bin/Debug/TrenchBroom g++: error: /home/andy/Programming/wxWidgets-2.9.4/build-debug/lib/libwx_gtk2u_gl-2.9.a: No such file or directory g++: error: /home/andy/Programming/wxWidgets-2.9.4/build-debug/lib/libwx_gtk2u_adv-2.9.a: No such file or directory g++: error: /home/andy/Programming/wxWidgets-2.9.4/build-debug/lib/libwx_gtk2u_core-2.9.a: No such file or directory Process terminated with status 1 (6 minutes, 25 seconds)" These libraries are specified in the linker settings tab under other linker options. Changing instances of gtk2 to gtk3 fixes this, but then I get this error: "ld||cannot find -lgtk-x11-2.0| ld||cannot find -lgdk-x11-2.0| ||=== Build finished: 2 errors, 0 warnings ===|" Any idea how to fix this mess anyone? Should I revert all the gtk3 instances to gtk2 and recompile wxWidgets to use gtk2? If so, does anyone know what options I need to use? I will have a look now, but I don't think I'm not most knowledgeable person about this kind of thing, so would appreciate help. seems to be the --with-gtk=2 compiler option on configure. Seems I also needed to install libgtk2.0-dev.
I'll try rebuilding wxWidgets with gtk 2 and see what happens. What kind of information do you need to support another Quake-engine game, such as Hexen II? Ozkan Sezer and myself might be of some help. I'm on gmail.
managed to compile and successfully run TrenchBroom under Mint Linux. Turns out you NEED to have libgtk2.0-dev installed for it to work, though wxWidgets compiles fine if you have another version. I had 3.0 already installed and assumed it would be fine, but it wasn't. I ended up compiling wxWidgets with the following settings:
release: configure --disable-shared --with-openlgl --with-gtk=2 debug: configure --enable-debug --disable-shared --with-opengl -with-gtk=2 and then everything just worked fine. The editor runs fine, though there are a couple of problems I've noticed. 1. text does not render properly in the 3d view, texture view or entity view. When in the texture view, applying a texture causes the names to be refreshed and they render correctly, but soon revert to being mostly not rendered. 2. This is probably just a linux mint problem, but holding alt and dragging moves the window. There might be a way to disable this in mint. Thanks for the info, I'll add the --with-gtk=2 option to the configure options. GTK versions are not compatible with each other, sadly. I'll put more emphasis on the fact that you need 2 and cannot use 3.
1. The text problem also happens on some Windows systems. I have no idea what the cause is, and I'm going to replace the current font rendering with texture fonts anyway. Maybe I'll find a way to fix the current font systems in the meantime. 2. You have to disable this behavior for your Windows manager. I don't know how to do it in Mint though. I couldn't compile the release build because there were a bunch of warnings about Source/Model/BrushGeometry.cpp using uninitialized variables. Explicitly initializing them to 0 fixes this problem. This never happened in the debug build, so perhaps it could simply be gotten around by supressing the warning/error that arises from the uninitialized variables? However, they do appear to be used uninitialized (buffer >> vertexCount etc.) so maybe it's safer to just initialize?
I had a look for how to disable the alt+drag = move window behaviour in Mint. This was the best I could find: http://ubuntuguide.net/disable-alt-click-moving-windows-ubuntu-12-04 It hasn't worked for me in Mint yet, but perhaps I just need to restart. Also, I'm having a problem selecting my Quake directory. I think it's probably a wxWidgets or Mint/Mate problem, because I had a similar issue when trying to set up wxWidgets in Code::Blocks (also a wxWidgets app), but for some reason it won't select any folder deeper than user/home/. My Quake dir is /andy/home/Games/Quake, but it just gives me /andy/home/ when I select the Quake folder. No idea why it's happening, but I had the same problem in code::blocks. I want to know the preference storage location so I can manually edit it to work around the problem for now. Hey Shanjaq,
Since Hexen2 uses the Quake engine, I believe it's already possible to make Hexen2 maps in TrenchBroom. I believe it just comes down to a hexen2.def download: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0piElswxauhWTVaeDFqUHUtTTA/edit I copied the Hexen2 I believe necros made a converter to convert the For anyone who is trying to use TrenchBroom in Linux Mint, I also found out how to disable alt+drag moves window (using Mate... not sure about Cinnamon):
At the terminal, run mateconf-editor In the configuration Editor window that appears, enter apps->marco-general and change the setting for mouse-button-modifier to "<Super>" to use the super key (probably the windows key) or "none" to disable it altogether. The default is <Alt>, but this is fucking stupid, since lots of applications use alt. Regarding the garbled text, could you please scroll the console all the way up and paste the first ten lines where it says whether OpenGL instancing is enabled or not?
enderer info: Mesa DRI Intel(R) 965GM x86/MMX/SSE2 version 2.1 Mesa 9.0.2 from Intel Open Source Technology Center
Depth buffer bits: 0 < WTF!? Multisampling disabled OpenGL instancing disabled I set it to be forced off because otherwise vertex mode crashes the editor. Also, I didn't notice until I tried loading some more complex maps, but the 3d view is extremely buggy. I'm getting missing surfaces all over the place, and I think some option I tweaked made all the normal flipped or something weird like that. The depth buffer or render order also seems to be borked. It's a mess on my laptop at least. I want to try it on my Ubuntu machine that has a sensible nvidia card and see if I experience problems there. I notice you have a screenshot on the TrenchBroom site taken in Linux that looks perfectly fine, so I'm guessing it might be an issue with my lame graphics chip. Oh, a couple of other things: 1. If I click on the window title before trying to use a menu for the first time, the menu appears briefly, then disappears and none of the menus are useable. Could it be a wx or GTK problem? 2. When I quit TrenchBroom, sometimes I get an assert fail "../src/common/glcmn.cpp(60): assert "IsShownOnScreen()" failed in SetCurrent(): can't make hidden GL canvas current" ASSERT INFO: BACKTRACE: [1] g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__VOID [2] g_closure_invoke [3] g_signal_emit_valist [4] g_signal_emit [5] gtk_widget_map [6] gtk_container_forall [7] g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__VOIDv [8] g_signal_emit_valist [9] g_signal_emit [10] gtk_widget_map [11] gtk_container_forall [12] g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__VOIDv [13] g_signal_emit_valist [14] g_signal_emit [15] gtk_widget_map [16] gtk_widget_set_child_visible [17] g_closure_invoke [18] g_signal_emit_valist [19] g_signal_emit [20] g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__OBJECTv [21] g_signal_emit_valist [22] g_signal_emit [23] gtk_container_remove [24] g_main_context_dispatch [25] g_main_loop_run [26] gtk_main No idea what's going on there. This is the graphics chip I seem to have: VGA compatible controller : Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller (primary) (rev 0c) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller]) Display controller : Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller (secondary) (rev 0c) http://andyp123.blogspot.jp/2013/03/running-trenchbroom-quake-editor-on.html
There are possibly some things I missed, and it's basically just an expanded version of Linux/Build.txt, but maybe it's of use to someone. If there are any problems with it, please let me know so that I can fix it. You must use the master branch for the Linux version, it has a lot of fixes. The 1.0.5 branch is pretty much broken on Linux.
ok, so there is no depth buffer it seems. The wireframe of all brushes is always visible - even when there are other brushes obscuring it, unlike in the windows version, and if I do a simple test with three brushes, it's obvious there is no depth culling. This is probably down to my shitty video card, the drivers or some combination of the two, and I don't expect you to fix it since TrenchBroom is just a personal project and fixing shit like that for one guy running on a Linux notebook from 2007/2008 is not of the upmost importance. Still, if you have any idea what the cause might be, it would be good to know.
That's odd, but it could very well be a bug in how I am detecting the available pixel formats on Linux. I'll look into this, so keep that laptop around ;-)
I am pulling direct from the master now and there are no differences with regard to bugginess on my machine.
I'm kind of done with this for today, but tomorrow or perhaps Tuesday I'll try and get it running on my Ubuntu machine and also use my experience from today to get it building with Code:: Blocks on Windows (I hope). Ideally I'd love to have it running flawlessly on Linux, but I'll be happy to get the Windows version building so I can try adding new features. At least on Linux Mint Mate. Not sure if it's just an issue related to my specific setup.
Load TrenchBroom Click on any menu (the file menu for instance) The menu should appear then quickly disappear. The entire GUI is completely unresponsive after that and I have to kill the process to get rid of it :/ I fixed the errors with the hexen2.def file I had.
Fixed hexen2.def Download: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0piElswxauhbnZJQ2Q2WGxHUDg/edit Errors/fixes were: 1) Removed first 5 lines(a custom comment). 2) Search & Replace all " / " with "/" 3) Search & Replace all lines that tail: ") ?", and replace that tail with ")" These fixes were based off the error messages I received in the console log of TrenchBroom. Thanks to the log messages, I was able to fix these manually myself. It loads fine, and I get hexen2 entities now. Models: However, it's not loading the models. I tried renaming my hexen2 /data1/ folder to /id1/, because it has same pak files, and the pak files have same file structure. But, I couldn't get this to work. Textures: I could not get it working. TrenchBroom won't load the hexen2tx.wad file I downloaded from: http://www.realm667.com/index.php/texture-stock-mainmenu-152/1090-hexen-ii-texture-pack?catid=56%3Aheretic--hexen-style --- Perhaps these issues are side-effects from the fact that the hexen2 is a custom quake1 engine. Alright, I'm done with TrenchBroom for now.
I can't use it effectively unless I have grid information. Bit I have no grid information--all the opengl text is garbled--and I have no grid view or grid anything to look at for measurements. I understand the editor is to be seamless flow for a mapper, but I prefer to be accurate and I always work with grid information and grid numbers, and a flat grid view. Thanks, Hello deqer,
I suspect that it's not loading the models since they have a customized MDL format for Hexen 2. For each games meshes to show up Trenchbroom would need to have a custom loader for the various MDL, MD2, MD3 and so on. Cheers Really nice! It's like Blender but with brushes...hmmm...hopefully there will be ample hotkey customization.
This looks and feels incredible! Fluid views, oldstyle graphics(not gl blurred! :) ), Brush splitting!! Amazing. Simply amazing. However, I have noticed one minor issue. Texture application takes a while...about 2-3 to do any change to the texture. I have Nvidia driver 306.97, though I haven't noticed any issues with it, though perhaps it has something to do with having multiple monitors. It does slow down my texturing process a lot. Anyways its great so far! Keep it up! Grid snap does't snap to the global grid! It's local. Instead of moving a face to the next gridline it just moves it the current grid distance. For example, if a face whose global X-value is 32 is moved 2 units to 30, then when switching back to any other grid size like, say, 16 then the X-value would go from 30 to 14, not 30 to 16 which is how other editors work. Is there a setting for this?
I disabled and then reenabled one of my monitors and it fixed the slow texturing problem. Wierd. Just FYI.
grid snapping to offsets is intentional. Force a vertex to snap to grid by holding shift while you move a vertex.
Not forcing the snap lets you do more such as work at large grid sizes without loosing small details. It is a spectacular editor though. The best feature is the texture rendering in 3d view, and texture management in general. I also like the grid lines on the brushes, and the extending helper grid lines when selecting a brush.
I will use 3d view a lot. But, I also use flat grid view just as much. Please provide grid view or something equivalent. Hello SleepwalkR,
Do you think its possible to add a world center and limits info to the 3d viewport? It would be most helpful in figuring out the center and maximum boundaries of the level. Some form of coordinate system that has a 3d grid which fades out after a set distance which can be turned on and off? That way folks that like a grid or none at all will live happy ever after. For me its good to get my bearings. Otherwise loving this. it took me until now recognise the origin of your nick, I should read more!
add a "name" field to the worldspawn. Showing where the center is and where the world ends has been requested by others. I'm still thinking about how to do it without cluttering the view port. Maybe it can be combined with a way to give people more orientation and a better idea of the relative position of objects.
Compiled on my main pc running Ubuntu 12.10. Had some minor troubles during compilation, but fixed and it runs just fine as far as I can tell (not tested extensively yet, however).
Everything is working fine, but wxWidgets setup.h seems to redefine SIZEOF_LONG as 8, where it has already been defined in freetype. Commented out the highlighted line and it compiled without issues. The z-buffer is working fine: Renderer info: GeForce GTX 560 Ti/PCIe/SSE2 version 4.2.0 NVIDIA 304.51 from NVIDIA Corporation Depth buffer bits: 24 Multisampling disabled OpenGL instancing enabled It might be good to have some goto brush and/or world position tools in there to help find and eliminate problems. I guess that can easily be tied into the map explorer when you are doing that?
Cool. Still annoying that it doesn't work correctly on Mint though. Which edition / desktop are you using on your Mint machine?
I'm aware of the SIZEOF_LONG issue, I have to do some include trickery to get around it. It's on my todo list. Goto brush is on the todo list also ;-). Necros keeps asking for it. This editor really needs a cut tool. Lets say I want to remove a small area in a wall that is shaped like a box. It would be nice if you could put a brush into that area and then have the area occupied by the brush removed.
I plan to add some CSG operations (most importantly CSG merge), but CSG subtract (or "cut" as you call it) is not among those. The reason is that it is very hard to make the subtract operation create "optimal" brushwork. Here, optimal means brushwork that creates a minimal amount of plane cuts when run through QBSP.
AFAIK, the general consensus is to stay away from CSG subtract operations because of this. And that's why I'm not going to add it to TrenchBroom. What's with that video - 'How to make a spiral staircase with Trenchbroom'. Basically - 'Use Quest'? Seems a little counter-intuitive.
Is this a known issue?
Loading file C:\Quake\Id1\maps\endeavor.map Loading unsupported map Valve 220 map format Malformed map file: expected token of type integer number, or decimal number, but found string at line 1198, column 77 Loaded map file in 0.020000 seconds Loading entity definition file C:\trenchbroom\Resources\Defs\Quake.fgd So are any Valve220 maps a no-no? Is this a known issue?
Loading file C:\Quake\Id1\maps\endeavor.map Loading unsupported map Valve 220 map format Malformed map file: expected token of type integer number, or decimal number, but found string at line 1198, column 77 Loaded map file in 0.020000 seconds Loading entity definition file C:\trenchbroom\Resources\Defs\Quake.fgd So are any Valve220 maps a no-no? I haven't tested them extensively. And even if they do load, TrenchBroom can't handle the new texture projection stuff (yet). If you send me the file, I can take a look and fix any problems with the parser, but as I said - you'll have garbled textures all over the place.
Best if you make a bug report and post the map (or the offending portion incl. containing entities) file there: http://github.com/kduske/trenchbroom/issues Proper support for 220 maps with freely configurable texture axes are on the todo list for 1.2 or 1.3.
Well I'll post that
I submitted an issue about setting the quake path (possibly you already added it as I mentioned it here already... I forgot about that), but in the meantime, is there some way to force set it? I could probably hard code it, but surely there is some config file somewhere I can open in a text editor and set the path? Where is it on Linux?
Anyone got multisampling working? Do you have anti-aliased lines etc? My Trenchbroom render window looks a bit ass. I'm using an GeForce 560 with the closed source drivers.
Also, my depth buffer is only set at 24bits, which could be the cause of the lines looking a bit thin and aliased. Yes, there is. Go to your home directory and look at the file
Try to set the Quake path to something that the file dialog is fine with so that it is actually stored in the prefs. The edit the file (I think it's an ini file) to reflect the correct path. The editor tries to autodetect multisampling, but I'm sure it doesn't work too well on Linux (I was using a virtual machine when I wrote that). If you like, you can look at the file LinuxCapabilities.cpp (or
I'll add it to my list of problems with the linux version, in any case. I'm aware that the 220 textures are loaded incorrectly in other editors (if the maps load at all), but it would still be nice to be able to load just the brushes. :)
add the name of the level and things in TrenchBroom?
add a 'message' key into worldspawn to make a title appear for your map. I made this:
https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/476 I mean I can't really give any more info than that at this time, because the map doesn't seem to load at all. But once we get past the first hurdle I can help give some structured info on different types of texture angle and how they appear in each editor, if that would help :) I really have no idea how to add or find the worldspawn, in worldcraft you just change the level details in a menu but I can't find any menu for it in TB.
I plan to add some CSG operations (most importantly CSG merge), but CSG subtract (or "cut" as you call it) is not among those. The reason is that it is very hard to make the subtract operation create "optimal" brushwork. Here, optimal means brushwork that creates a minimal amount of plane cuts when run through QBSP.
AFAIK, the general consensus is to stay away from CSG subtract operations because of this. And that's why I'm not going to add it to TrenchBroom. If it helps maybe you could experiment with what I did in ToeTag. I remember sorting the cutting planes by size and cutting with the biggest ones first. This did seem to result in the best/least set of cuts possible as it tended to do the large changes first and then the small ones only operated on the small brushes that were near the cutting brush. Anyway, something to think about. Cutting holes in stuff is a staple feature that I would miss not having, long term. It's really just an extension of the clipping tool. Er, not the cutting planes but the cutting polygons, obviously. :) The planes would all be equal size.
of my first Worldcraft test level a few months ago by liberally using the carve tool. It was a nice looking test map (that may evolve further) but I think discourage carve tools is a good idea.
I won't get into a huge argument but I disagree. You can make the same mess with the clipping tool. Keeping users away from powerful tools because they might make a mess is a silly argument, IMO.
I'll walk away now. :) Well, I thought that noone really used CSG subtract, but if I'm wrong I'm happy to add it. But I think you haven't understood what I meant about cutting the brushes "optimally". I want them to be cut so that they don't get extra vertices in the edges that they share with other brushes that are not affected by the cut. Because that would lead to the adjacent faces of those brushes to be cut up into more polygons, right?
This is easy to avoid in simple situations such as cutting a door frame into a brush, but it seems much harder when you do stuff like cut a brush (or several brushes) with a shape such as a sphere when the sphere. I'll have to think this through, but I'll add it to my todo list for when I work on CSG. actually but I think the damage caused by carve can be much greater (imagine carving a cylinder shape out of another cylinder shape, ouch!), I do remember there being a guide for carving brushes properly without making a mess.
These are certainly lessons to learn but I think the carve tool can be a bit of a crutch, there's a lot to be said about making decent pre-fabs to work with that optimise well. I use CSG Subtract all the time, it goes really well with CSG Merge. I am with Willem on this one, CSG Subtract is an extremely useful tool that can produce good results if used wisely.
It would be interesting to see some examples of how you guys use this and how you edit the resulting brushes so as to avoid the well known problems (additional face cuts etc.). I would be grateful if you could provide some screenshots (or videos).
CSG Subtract works well only if you do it with square shapes. If you try subtracting anything more, such as a pentagon, or circle, then there is no way for the editor to know how to properly set up the brushes around the cut. It becomes a mess of brushes.
I would say CSG Subtract should be available, but only for square shapes. how to mimick what the human does to mop up after a dumb CSG subtract operation. That's why I'd like to see what you guys do.
to chop a brush up with perfectly optimal geometry if you want to effectively punch a square hole in it.
CSG subtract is not necessary in that situation at all. When I found it handy for was making buttons. I could build a button brush, embed it into the wall and subtract it. Now the button has a nice recess to move into.
Although I will agree that Merge would get used a lot more often than Subtract so if one needs to be done first, Merge would be the choice.
With regard to what Qmaster said about the grid vertex snapping.
I believe the editor should have a preference for this. I think it's similar to how I could do this in Quest. In Quest, the config file has this option: # --------------- # snap_to_int <x> # --------------- # # If set to 1, Quest will snap all vertices to integer values upon save. This # should prevent vertex drifting. This is only used with the old map format. snap_to_int 1 --- There are couple more settings in the config file that you might find interesting. See quest.cfg: http://pastebin.com/7CCDm8R6 Kinn, why would someone want to use the slice tool 4 times to cut a square, when CSG Subtract can do it in 1 move.
My point is that we don't need a stupid "csg subtract but only for square shapes" thing, when everyone can produce the equivalent geometry themselves in a few seconds without that feature?
Either make a proper csg subtract tool, or don't make it at all. Will be cool because the code can be used for stuff like this:
https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/276 That was rebb's idea, and it's absolutely great. SleepwalkR,
Here is video of me doing CSG Subtract and I show the problems, and explain what I would've preferred the result to be. http://youtu.be/7P1wS5INeAw The problem is inventing the algorithm that produces optimal results when csg subtracting arbitrary brushes.
This is not merge exactly, but it works in a similar fasion. The idea is to select a couple vertices (either by selecting brushes or by selecting faces), then creating the convex hull of those vertices and creating a brush from that.
If you select a couple of brushes which form a convex shape to begin with, you have CSG merge. The other cases are shown in the images I linked above. Here's another video of CSG Subtract, doing arch window, and what I do to clean it up, and I explain what I would've preferred the result to be.
http://youtu.be/7-x47KvgL9U Again, the problem is programming the logic, math, magic to be able to do CSG Subtract like this. Honestly, CSG Subtract is too much magic for me to expect from a new editor anyways. I suppose you'd rather focus on more important things/features. Again, there are questions as to how the resulting brushes should be shaped. My current idea is to extrude the outer faces and chop them off at their formal position.
It's basically this feature applied to each face of the brush: https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/418 See, now hollow is something I've never seen a use for. Does that get a lot of play for some people? I know it's good for "my first room" tutorials
Apparently some people use it. I'm not a fan of any of the CSG operations, but if I'm going to support one, I guess I should support the others as well, esp. as hollow is quite simple compared to subtract.
I use it a lot for speedmapping / testmapping and sometimes for blocking out.
When it's time to put an area together properly I usually delete the resulting brushes. The more predictable features (and therefore, hopefully the ones that are easier to implement) tend to be the most valuable.
Complex CSG functions have a bad rep for a reason. It doesn't mean they can't be well used though. What I'm driving at is that the value of a feature is a result of balancing the pros and cons, not one or the other. And both those should take into consideration things like 'time to implement' and 'will it be a bitch to get it right'. True.
Here's some of my own coding stuff, may be of interest even though not editor related. http://spiney.me/schism/forum/index.php?topic=303.msg3743#msg3743 I have noticed that certain actions in 1.04 now take considerably longer than in version 1 (I updated the
If you want to check it for yourself SleepwalkR I could email you my level Please do. Even better, create a bug report at http://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues
I have created a bug report, though I haven't changed the wording or anything from here as I'm no good at tech stuff really. I'll send you the
It would be interesting to see some examples of how you guys use this and how you edit the resulting brushes so as to avoid the well known problems (additional face cuts etc.). I would be grateful if you could provide some screenshots (or videos).
Unfortunately I don't have any videos or screenshots examples because I don't have any maps in progress at the moment. I can describe when I use the CSG tools if that helps. Personally I find CGS subtract useful when I am doing 3 point clipping. When I am trying to create two brushes that are flush against each other I will often use a duplicate brush to trim one brush to fit another. Afterwards I will use CSG merge to tidy up the brush fragments into better shapes. The CSG tools work together when you subtract first and then merge afterwards. It is a two fold process and very much like a cutting knife, slicing odd shapes by using another brush as the template and the merge function fixing stuff afterwards. I often hear newer mappers claim that CSG tools should be limited because *they can* make a mess, but if you are careful and understand how they work the CSG tools are very powerful and good for specific situations. If mappers are lazy and use them to create simple shapes then will make a terrible mess. I would recommend coding CSG merge first because it has the most uses, especially for optimizing brushwork. Also new faces should adopt a similar texture to the first brush picked or mark new surfaces with caulk/skip instead so designers can see what has changed. Sorry, but the video is useless until there is a version of TrenchBroom that works like it works in the video.
Please fix the grid information; the garbled text. That should be your first priority. Seriously now, SleepwalkR has already stated that he's changing the text to a texture to fix that problem. Stop being a jerk about it, these things take time and this is actually a spare-time hobby project so just chill out and be patient!
That should be your first priority.
Or you'll fire him? This isn't a mob grabbing the torches and pitchforks - just chill out. "Wad" hmmm - He uses a vowel sound like in 'mad', but I would use the vowel sound like in 'mod'. As in 'wads of cash'.
OCD much. Also my college tutor pronounces iteration 'Eye-teration' Which is way worse IMO...... http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/03/12/make-quake-with-trenchbroom/
Massive congratulations to Sleepy! Really, FifthElement? I see no indication that it's being done. I posted a bug, and I see no indication that my bug has been viewed at all.
What I do see, is him spending his time discussing CSG stuff and working on other features--according to github logs. Other people have complained about the garbled text as well. How is this issue not of highest priority? Is it low priority because it isn't fun for the programmer? The new slogan: "TrenchBroom, a new editor! But, make sure you have a gaming video card!" Sleepy, like I already told you on IRC (and you missed it), pimping TB through Carmack was a stroke of genius. This way it could gain some attention beyond this forum and ideally may just spark some renewed interest in Q1 mapping.
Same here, Ricky - I say it the way you do.
And thanks OTP - I didn't even know Rock, Paper, Shotgun so far (heard of the name, but didn't read it). Apparently it's a big thing, so if that drives more people to try TB or even help out with the development, that would be fantastic. It was more of a spark of me celebrating TrenchBroom's release with a bit too much alcohol. I'm just happy I didn't put any spelling errors into that email ;-).
I was sure lucky that he retweeted it (on a friday no less, the tweet was there till monday) though. That was awfully nice of him. I'm sure this stuff will get done at some point, but SleepwalkR isn't getting paid to do this, he's just doing it for the community and his own pleasure (am I wrong?). So he gets to prioritise his own backlog. I mean there's no need to get 'shirty', it's not like you had to pay for this software.
Also development can be very tiring, and he's just released this, it's bound to be a busy time for him. But the stuff on Github is there for a reason, I'm sure he will systematically go through the various bugs and feature requests in his own time. deqer
Can you take your self entitled attitude somewhere else, please? This is a hobbyist project that was released for free. You have zero ground to make demands on the programmers time. None. It's hilarious when your own insulated views on game/technobabble pronunciations get onto the internet. I had honestly never thought about wad vs wod before now.
It's wAd though guys, c'mon now! ;) "Dude, stop being a demanding prick and keep mapping with Quest if that is what you want. "
That's not what I want. What I want is to see TrenchBroom succeed and be the best editor out there, and I've been spending my time to help with that. So, sue me for getting frustrated. Take your useless comments and kindly shove them up your ***. kthxbye. "Can you take your self entitled attitude somewhere else, please?"
Nope. Now that I've said "nope", maybe you'll step back and keep quiet now. Thanks. Nope.
Now that I've said "nope", maybe you'll step back and keep quiet now. Thanks. Sure. It's your choice. Feel free to keep acting like an angry child. You're winning zero friends here. Have fun! If you don't want to hear from the public, then maybe you shouldn't have released the editor to the public.
I sort of agree with your standpoint, but I mean your getting impatient after, like, a couple of days, dude. I mean take a pill man.
If you have really been mapping for 15 years (which I seriously doubt judging by your general level of maturity and apparent skillset), you should know how this kind of community works, and that being such a colossal, simpering self-entitled little pillock is not really how we play cricket around here.
Let me just re-iterate. This is Sleepwalkr's fucking hobby. He is not getting paid for it, and you are in no position to throw your bottle out of the pram just because he doesn't want to drop everything and concede to your questionable demands. "oh boy, yes! that's why im here. im looking for more friends.. yes!" lulz
I'm sorry, I thought that my being here you were looking to be a part of the community. So you're just here to be a dick or deqer: Constructive criticism and brain-storming is very welcome. You are extending that to trying to force your opinion of "how it should work" and "what it should do" upon the author. Bugs that are high priority or even blockers for you might not be high priority for the author.
Kinn, your post is fluffed and pointless. Quit wasting your time typing.
Yes, I've been mapping since Quake and long before Quake. Doom, Duke3d, etc. -- my level of maturity has no bearing. If my impatience--with someone else that isn't YOU--bothers YOU, then cry somewhere else about it, right? Right. Hobby or not, paid or not, doesn't matter; we are involved. The editor has been released to us, so, we are involved now. If SleepWalkR can't handle responding to the public, then maybe he shouldn't have released his editor to the public. So, having said that, I'm definitely in a position to "throw my bottle out of the pram" as you put it. I'm not expecting him to drop everything to deal with this issue. If he doesn't want to drop everything to deal with a specific issue, that's fine; then just say so then. Do I really need to find 100 more people with the same issue to help raise the level of importance on the issue? Do I really need to do that? It's like websites. You build your website to be compatible on all browsers, otherwise you risk losing a huge chunk of people that would/could/should've used this editor, and could also become part of the community then and assist. CSG features don't help with that. "So you're just here to be a dick or
Just because I'm here for TrenchBroom only and not for making friends, does not necessarily mean I'm here to be a dick. It just means I'm willing to be a dick if it comes to it. Usually it takes a second person to start the fight though; you know that. You know the expression "takes 2 to tango." "Hobby or not, paid or not, doesn't matter; we are involved. The editor has been released to us, so, we are involved now.
If SleepWalkR can't handle responding to the public, then maybe he shouldn't have released his editor to the public." Seriously, what the hell? The source is open, there's your involvement. The editor has been released to us, so, we are involved now. We are Anonymous. We are Legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Expect us.
Hobby or not, paid or not, doesn't matter; we are involved. The editor has been released to us, so, we are involved now.
That is great! Since TrenchBroom is free and open-source software under the GPL3 you can inspect the code, find the bug and write a patch then. I am sure Sleepwalkr would merge it quickly. Do I really need to find 100 more people with the same issue to help raise the level of importance on the issue? Do I really need to do that? Yes, of course. Because right now the level of importance seems fairly low. If there are really 101 people who want to map with TrenchBroom but are blocked from that opportunity by this bug, then this would make the bug very important. Just because I'm here for TrenchBroom only and not for making friends, does not necessarily mean I'm here to be a dick. It just means I'm willing to be a dick if it comes to it. Usually it takes a second person to start the fight though; you know that. You know the expression "takes 2 to tango."
Look, if you come stomping in here all blustering and demanding then you're going to ruffle feathers. You know that, that's why you're doing it. It's got nothing to do with the tango and everything to do with you being a dick. Being a dick to a guy who spent the last year of his spare time writing a Quake editor which he released for free and is updating on a pretty regular basis. The problem, as it were, is that he's not working on YOUR pet problems. So you're being a dick to him and shitting up his thread. Nice. You seem like a great guy. Kinn, your post is fluffed and pointless. Quit wasting your time typing.
I admit my post is completely redundant, because everyone else here already said the same thing that I did. Make That Three Years ;-)
Oh, well, in that case pull up a chair. I have a list of demands I'd like to scream into your face... :P Yes... because we're all programmers, right Spiney?
We submit issues, the devs address them. It's that simple. Why would you expect all of us to be programmers and do the feature ourselves? How unrealistic does that seem to you? It's no different than SleepwalkR expecting people to signup to github and post the issue themselves, when SleepwalkR could've done that himself with a copy/paste. It's no different than contacting a company to submit a suggestion, and the representative says "please submit it in writing", and you respond "okay. why can't you submit it for me as i tell it to you over the phone? it's only 1 sentence." and the company is so hurtin' enough that they refuse to and make you do it. Terrible service. "who spent the last year of his spare time writing a Quake editor which he released for free and is updating on a pretty regular basis" Oh please... Don't give me that. He did it because it was fun. It wasn't a chore for him, and no one asked for this anyways. Of course it's free, who the hell would be insane enough to think they could charge for a level editor for a game from the 90s? That would be like mappers charging people to download their maps. lol. "The problem, as it were, is that he's not working on YOUR pet problems." No... The problem is 1) You've chosen to assume it's a pet problem, when you have no good reason to provide for your assumption. While on the otherhand, I've provided multiple reasons and videos. 2) lack of communication. 3) signs of proof that he isn't working on it. no ETA or anything. Just silence, and then talking about other features like CSG. I don't even know if he's working on it or not; that's the problem, no communication. My response is no different than any other response of a "customer" in the field of business. If you can't handle the public, then don't submit to the public. --- But, you all just had to respond to my hate comment on the Daz video, right? You just had to... You felt the need to respond, for some reason; maybe reason to "teach my lesson?" Sad, because I've seen no lessons to be learned here yet from your responses. Sad, because I've seen no lessons to be learned here yet from your responses.
And you never will. You've got your back up now, it's your against the world, and there is no way in HELL you're backing down now. There's nothing more to be gained in talking to you now. Deqer - it's this simple: It's a fucking hobby, so stop continually comparing this to work, and stop expecting him to treat it like work. You are not a fucking customer.
Sleepwalkr owes you nothing. You cannot demand anything from him, and you cannot lambast him for not delivering things according to your warped expectations and selfish sense of entitlement. Also, SleepwalkR gains experience from this. he also gains portfolio work. He gains a lot. So, don't give me that "he's doing it in his spare time, for free, for us" crap. He gains a lot from this project, and now he'd like to gain some popularity by releasing it to the public.
Kinn, he does owe the public since he's involved the public now. Otherwise he's just shooting himself in the foot. --- "Don't Feed the Troll" ? They aren't feeding a troll, they are arguing. I don't think you know what troll means, so, do us a favor and don't talk unless you know what you're talking about. Go look up the definition of troll, and ask yourself if I'm really a troll. Perhaps for someone like you, you may want to ask yourself twice. "There's nothing more to be gained in talking to you now. " Good, I guess that means you'll all quit your bitching now. Cool. Kinn, he does owe the public since he's involved the public now. Otherwise he's just shooting himself in the foot.
Bullshit. He is under no fucking obligation to do anything for any of us. He made something cool and free, and we are grateful for it, and he is happy to hear our feedback and make (or not make) whatever changes he wants completely according to his discretion. Or he could drop it now, and move on to something else, and he still owes nothing to anyone. This really should not be a difficult concept to grasp, and I'm almost certain you are a pitch-perfect troll now, because surely no-one can really be as thick as you appear to be? When interacting with developers, it is important to be thoughtful and considerate.
Especially with "for free" projects. The reason is that it takes a lot of time and effort to make these things and it is clear SleepwalkR has a large to-do list. Developers often change their minds or become open to alternate ideas as the to-do list dwindles. Sometimes even ideas they previously rejected. The natural order of things with a free project is patience and understanding, exercising those traits is helpful to the development and will make you a better person. Those traits also make it easier for developers to interact with you, making it more likely to get what you want. Alright, yes, technically he doesn't owe us. Fine. You win, Kinn.
--- Anyways, moving on now. So, where do we stand? We have about 7 people in here telling SleepwalkR the same stuff as I have been telling. Mainly grid stuff, and 2d viewing/editing, etc. So, I guess I need to find 93 more people. lol. pathetic. Baker, you're right, and thanks for the soft post.
I guess my patience isn't as great as it should be for situations like this. I've spent my time and patience so far, and I guess it's not enough, and I guess I need to accept that. Okay. I'm not sure but I suspect all you need for that are entity definitions, right? If you find a
"If you find a
So, you'll be adding the hexen2.def file I linked above?--or maybe you already added it? Have you already added other common ones such as: quake2.def, hl.def, etc. ? The link (above) for the hexen2.def is actually a sub folder. You'll find the other Can't say I understand all 10 of those Well that was in interesting discussion... Me I try to whisper suggestions of things that would be "nice to have"
I can't comprehend how anyone could demand features for a free project like this. Its free done in their own time and I will gladly use it and give suggestions if they will be heard. If folks come in and make an ass of themselves plus piss off the developer... not the smartest thing to do. You catch more flies with honey then you do with vinegar my friends. SleepwalkR you rock. Keep up the awesome work. You're revitalizing the quake based engine mapping community with this new tool. That's the best thing too. ITS NEW! lovely stuff. Now everyone hug each other and make up. I haven't been mapping since ~8 years. A post on Rock Paper Shotgun brought me here. I immedieately started mapping and got into a frenzy of straight 1h mapping session - just work, no distractions, no facebook, no mail, only the flow of mapmaking. Unfortunately the editor crashed on me and I lost my work.
Great great work man. You rock! This editor reminded me how fun mapping was. Thanks! Can you say how you got it to crash? Also, if you had previously saved, the editor will create automatic backups every five minutes or so, so your work might not be lost. Look at the autosave did in the directory where you (hopefully!) saved your maps.
This won't help in any way but my crash came when I was attempting to resize a brush. Get on that, will you? :)
No, not dumb, I didn't think of that. However, I do remember opening the autosave and redo-ing that operation right away and it was fine so it was clearly some kind of long term hiccup thing.
The origins:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_T._Thompson I have experienced crashes like what Willem is describing where a seemingly normal operation crashed the editor and then reloading to a prior save (done just before the operation that crashed) and redoing that same operation produced no error.
I haven't opened a ticket because I haven't been able to figure what actually caused it. Well I suppose it is caused by memory corruption. Please, if you experience something like this again, let me know if you have used undo before, I suspect that there are still bugs in there somewhere.
Great program! :-) I'd like to use TrenchBroom for basic brushwork and then import my map file into Valve Hammer Editor, as Counter-Strike interests me more than Quake 1... I'm to understand this is possible, but I'm getting the following error in Hammer upon opening the file:
http://4ce.ca/images/sharex/2013-03-13_10-42-28.png Any support would be highly appreciated. I have already brought this issue to the attention of SleepwalkR (Trenchbroom author) and a ticket has been raised over on the Github.
The bug is caused by the Valve 220 protocol texture positioning info not being the same as the standard Quake info. SleepwalkR has declared this 'a bug', and it is AFAIK on the list of things to be 'fixed'! Which is great because I am in the same boat as you are ;) No, I didn't save even one time - rushed straight into mapping - so no autosave for me.
I doubt if I can reproduce this crash - it was something with scaling and selection of multiple brushes at the same time. SleepwalkR,
Why--for the second time now--have you not commented on the Why as soon as MacD11 asks about it, you jump out of your chair and say "I'd be glad to add any Is it true? onetruepurple said I'm being ignore now? You ignoring me? You mad? I also messaged you on IRC, 24 hours ago, and no response. I messaged "why no irc channel for trenchbroom?" Yes, I messaged a person named "SleepwalkR"--not too many people out there with the name "SleepwalkR" with a capital "R" at the end, on irc.quakenet.org--So, I'm pretty sure it's you. So, I guess you're ignoring me. Well well, you poor baby. You mad. You giving me the "Silent Treatment" now? Trying to teach me a lesson? Awww, you poor ****ing baby. Here's a tissue for your tears. *hands you tissue* --- Sorry to post this here, but you provide no other contact information. So, I have no choice but to post here, and "dirty the thread up?" as someone called it. deqer, this is the treatment you'll be getting for such an attitude from the regulars of this board.
relax, go use radiant or whatever for your quake 2 boxmaps and stop polluting interwebs with your posts. Yes it does appear to be the case that your requests are being ignored. Hmm, yes we should probably investigate this peculiar turn of events...I'm sure there must be some reason for this, if only I can remember-
-oh wait, it's because you're a cunt. Ricky, I understand your issue was about importing Hammer maps (or rather, Valve 220 maps) into TrenchBroom, which causes TB to choke.
Elevory, your issue seems to happen when doing it the other way round: Importing a TB map into Hammer. TB doesn't support the Valve 220 map format yet. Full support for it is planned for the 1.2 release, though: https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/400 But I'm afraid it will take a while! Include stripping out the extra data or actually recognizing / reading it?
If I remember rightly Necros (?) was working on a stripper script that would remove the extra data attached to each face string. Recognizing it would be the first step supporting the advanced texture projection. Fixing the parser to strip the extra data is scheduled for the next maintenance release. Actually recognizing and reading the data as well as in-editor support for changing the projection axes and saving
I fully appreciate the difficulty in reverse engineering it and maintaining the original
The Valve 220 format is properly documented and I know how it works. The Mac version already had support for it, but that feature got lost in the C++ rewrite.
You will be able to set the format in the map properties dialog. So if the map is standard Quake, TB will save standard Quake. If it is 220, then it will save 220 (and give you the additional tools to adjust the texture projection per face). be able to open a normal map file and then re-save it into 220 at a later date to fix up the textures?
And that's awesome.
Thanks for the continued dedication to this project, it's well appreciated. Conversion of standard Quake to Valve 220 map is trivial (it will not affect the textures), but the other way round is tricky. I'm not quite sure how well TB will support that.
"What's Going On Here?"
What's going on? SleepwalkR is being a bitch, just like all programmers. I'm not surprised. Programmers are bitches, and many people have known that for years. Maybe I should post videos of the things that trenchbroom lacks, and promote those videos as a "beware" message to all mappers out there. Would that help? "Oh Fuck Of Deqer " Thanks Ricky. I know, the truth hurts, doesn't it. I think the most sane choice would be to discard the additional texture information.
As much as I like how it works, it does have its limitations - often when slicing a brush it'll corrupt the projection leaving the actual BSP unplayable on certain engines (that being a linux issue AFAIK, but I could be wrong). Trying to replicate the projection sounds like a minefield, and one it'd only be possible to partially cross before you lost your legs. Then arms, etc. Willem, nope. Like I said, I'm not surprised. I'm just pointing out the facts.
Even when people are nice, they still get ignored by programmers. Heck, even the Project Manager in the company I work for complains about the same thing. Says the same thing too, lol, "programmers are such bitches." So, if SleepwalkR feels he's better off being a bitch, then so be it. "Not to sound harsh or anything", right SleepwalkR? heh. I'm sure he uses that quote a lot, "Not to sound harsh but Not quite sure what you mean now. Are you talking about converting 220 to standard Quake? There would only be approximate solutions in that case, but I could at least try to keep the texture's center pixel in a face intact. This is how texture lock works right now.
To both, but yeah, in the previous I was talking about 220 ->
Keeping it locked as you mention sounds the best solution. I think the most sane choice would be to discard the additional texture information.
As much as I like how it works, it does have its limitations - often when slicing a brush it'll corrupt the projection leaving the actual BSP unplayable on certain engines (that being a linux issue AFAIK, but I could be wrong). Trying to replicate the projection sounds like a minefield, and one it'd only be possible to partially cross before you lost your legs. Then arms, etc. I think that the texture projection stuff is powerful enough that it's worth trying to get it working. especially if you could directly control it in the editor, to, for example, make tri-souped terrain faces all use the same projection. That's the plan, yeah. All modern compilers can handle the 220 format anyway and to Quake it's all the same AFAIK because QBSP generates the texture coordinates for the engine.
I just meant the scope of the conversion features - once you're working in 220 you probably won't want to change back anyway unless exporting to another editor.
What hurts is your ridiculous tone. Your inane sense of self-importance, your impatience.
I'm basically reading this thread, interested in the development of a new editor and talking to a bunch of fellow Quake fans and hobby Quake developers, many of which I have been chatting to for years. When somebody comes straight in with a poor attitude, strange grasp of reality and high level of hubris, and then starts being unnecessarily rude to people who have every right to do as they please then YES I get annoyed, and if I were you I would listen to the other people who are also tired of your ridiculous attitude, and just stop trolling this thread with your sorry antagonistic arrogant deluded bizarre angle. For one, I don't know what the fuck planet you are on. I was intrigued by your early posts, but I rapidly started to get suspect when I viewed a YouTube video called 'How to Make a Staircase in Trenchbroom' or something similar which depicted some absolute nonsense poor methodology of some idiot playing around in the ancient Quest editor. I mean what the hell!?! That's just a pure troll attempt at SleepwalkR, and anybody interested in Trenchbroom who might be looking for related videos on YouTube. You should delete that shit. It's bullshit, and you, sir, are a moron. What's all this crap you were saying on another forum, bitching because someone gave you a 7/10 and you thought your map was a 10/10?!?! I mean that just makes you sound like a complete moron from the start. We don't want it here, so please fuck off!! Maybe if you apologised for being so arrogant and insulting (verging on bigoted - WTF Programmers are bitches, and many people have known that for years. - Do you know how stupid that makes you sound?!?! If anything you just look like an idiot for thinking that everyone of a particular type is a 'bitch')..... Sorry - maybe if you apologised for being such a completely rude, arrogant, impatient and insulting person towards Sleeps, and then stopped being all of the above, you might get a little further. In Worldcraft there seem to be two different modes for textures. 'Tow World' and 'To Face'. As far as I can tell, 'To Face' is the rogue type. So perhaps it would be possible to convert the 'To World' ones to standard Quake info, and just approximate or [reset to zeros] all of the 'To Face' ones.
Just ignore him, his posts are all insane, indefensible drivel and the only thing left to do is ignore him otherwise he'll keep posting.
Yes, but that's a limitation of Hammer. Actually you can define any coordinate system for the texture projection. But yeah, "to world" can be converted 1:1.
I was able to successfully open a
At first I thought it may have worked because I didn't texture any brush faces, but I just did a 2nd test with textured brushes and that opened just fine also. Hmm, more tests. I can create maps in Hammer 3.4, export to Am I being dumb? I hope this helps if you were having problems here. "What's all this crap you were saying on another forum, bitching because someone gave you a 7/10 and you thought your map was a 10/10?!?! I mean that just makes you sound like a complete moron from the start. "
No. I questioned his rating because he didn't provide a valid explanation to it. The other people rated it 10/10. When I questioned his rating, he turned into a little kiddie about it and changed his rating to 0/10 to spite me. So, I requested that my map be removed, because I don't support rating systems where spite votes are allowed. Why else do you think lvlworld.com has a new website now where the rating system has changed now; you now need reputation to vote, and votes and be rated now with thumb-up and thumb-down. Why do you think I disabled ratings on my youtube videos? Because there are few losers here who will thumb-down just for spite. --- Apologize? Apologize for what? Apologize for responding/questioning the fact that SleepwalkR didn't put much thought into my original post and immediately responded with "nope" essentially. Nah. The guy gave you a seven out of ten.
He was a tough customer, but you didn't manage to wow him enough that he had to give you a 10. Because your map wasn't good enough to do that. If it was then he would have given you a ten, get it? 'All is fair in love and war' Nah just apologise for being rude and the turning into a total troll. And alienating yourself. But you can apologise to yourself for doing that. I've released a bunch of maps, but I'm not such an arrogant person that I think I have a right for people to agree with the rating that I would give to my own map myself. That is very very arrogant. And for your information - nobody likes an arrogant prick. And your belligerent attitude towards 'all who do not agree with you' just makes you unpleasant. Frankly I couldn't give a fuck about any of your maps or your opinion, I just want you to stop posting. I also try ignore him.
It's just too tempting to poke back because you know he's going to come with some ridiculous cringe-worthy responses. It's a vicious cycle. My hat goes off to the people civilized enough to show restraint, haha. Stop trolling this thread, and yeah, like Spirit said:
"You Have Not The Wisdom With Spoons Eaten" All said, canadian moron. Greetings from Berlin :) "He was a tough customer, but you didn't manage to wow him enough that he had to give you a 10. Because your map wasn't good enough to do that. If it was then he would have given you a ten, get it?"
If you're not going to explain your rating, then don't rate. It's pointless. Just like SleepwalkR, if you're not going to explain yourself and rather just effortlessly say "nope" essentially, then, well, there you go. Even though we have 7 people in here telling you the same thing. You're all like "nope." What does Canada have to do with it? I could've been born in Germany, and I'd still have the same response. I could care less where I was born, or live. It just so "happens" that I'm in Canada. Big--whooptie doo dah--deal... Typical attitude of programmer:
"I am god, and therefore I do not need to be patient with any of you. Nope. One slip from you, and now you're on my shitlist, because I am god here." i'll admit whilst part of me finds this all very hilarious, another part questions the morality of ganging up on someone who is clearly autistic
According to my original post, I'm polite.
According to SleepwalkR's post, he isn't. He didn't even think twice about it; didn't even think once about it; he responded immediately; and to top it off, he added that generic shit liner you hear from people a lot: "if you don't like it, go somewhere else." So, do the math. And did I mention we have 7 other people in here telling him the same thing? And he's ignoring it all. this holy Func_Msg Board could turn into a somehow insulting, inpolite
Youtube comment-like something... You must be new here :) My mistake. I made same mistake with Willem's name too. Sorry. I can only hope the readers can see that mistake.
been here observing for like 6 years or so, but never I felt like having to comment or something.
But I have some new Q1 stuff which I did the last year (and will be released if i find some beta testers...<-hint) Btw Q1 was my first love, and it will be my first. ;) Just go to the Screenshots thread and post a shot there with a plea for testers and you'll find plenty I'm sure.
click the forum link at the top of the page here, 5th item down on the resulting page. Sign up too! :-)
Alright guys, I'm sorry. Really, I am. I sincerely apologize for my behaviour in here.
My actions here have touched some people in a serious manner, and I didn't think twice about that. Looks like my reputation is ruined, now. :/ All I can do is move on, and be calm; and hope to gain back some reputation, and ultimately some respect from the regulars here. I'm just a stranger here, you know. Unfortunately I did not grow up in this community, and that makes things harder. I've registered an account here now, and I plan to contribute to the community in any way I can. I will be checking the Mapping help thread, and Screenshots, and such, and provide any help I can--not because I feel punished and that I need to--because I actually like to do that anyways; like to help out. Again, I'm sorry, and ask for your forgiveness. I fixed up my videos as well, so they are not misleading, and I removed the bad videos.
Welcome back!
The text bug is on my todo list, and it will get fixed when the text system is replaced with a better, faster version. I'll see if I can fix it sooner though, as it seems to be related to the "OpenGL Instancing" setting as well. I'll look into it for 1.0.5. Everyone else: Let's give deqer a break so that we can get back on topic. it's good to know I can port over to 220 when the time comes, I seem to be coping fine without it really but I am definitely a perfectionist about things like texture alignment. Can't wait to see the future of the editor if this is the beginning.
Definitely looking forward to version 1.2, then! Very happy to have discovered this software.
I will take a while and will definitely not happen before release 1.2. There are more pressing issues, and my time is limited. Sorry!
People tell me that you just need a Hexen 2
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0piElswxauhWTVaeDFqUHUtTTA/edit But he says it doesn't load properly. I can't test it right now, but maybe you can edit it or isolate the errors. TrenchBroom should give you more or less meaningful error messages as to where the parser chokes. There was a Hexen II FGD file for worldcraft by autolycus at some point:
http://www.quakewiki.net/archives/worldcraft/files/files.shtm But I can't download it. Maybe someone in the Hexen II community has it. It should work with TrenchBroom. If you get it to work, it would be nice if you could upload the def or fgd file somewhere for me. Then I can include it in the editor.
I have found a Hexen II FGD file and uploaded it here:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7009168/FGD/hexen2fgd.zip I can't test it right now, but maybe it works right out of the box. Just to clarify, the hexen2.def I linked above is the one I fixed.
BTW, I tried the hexen2.fgd you linked now, SleepwalkR, and it loads fine. However, the entities aren't as colorful as the hexen2.def file. Not sure if that matters; just looks prettier. lol. I'll fix up the other BTW, if anyone is interested, I posted another video, 3 minutes long, about working with textures in trenchbroom. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnEnn61GRR0 Def and fgd both have the colours of entities written into each entry and you can customise them as you wish.
It usually helps a bit to do this when working on a mod and you start adding more helpers and stuff. I'm just looking at my own fgd right now and seeing why it doesn't work.
It seems there's some extended functionality not used in CZGs fgd that I have for presets and CSS style settings where some values are inherited by all things of a type, for example monsters. There's also a @main that it chokes on but which is only used for WC to define default entities and is easily commented. I can't use TB just yet since my WIP maps are all in 220 format, but I'll add colours to the various def files if you want, following the precedents in the rubicon2 fgd. Anyone build the windows version of TrenchBroom with CodeBlocks? I felt I'd pretty much got there before but had some annoying problems that I'm about to try and resolve. If anyone has any insight to getting it up and running without needing visual studio bloated crapware installed then that info would be much appreciated.
I'm going to try and compile wxWidgets in much the same way I did with the linux version and see if it works, though I'm guessing the binaries mentioned in the build.txt file might be a better bet. Not sure how you can use the wxWidgets binaries in Code::Blocks, but it should work. I would prefer to use them as it will put less burden on those who also want to use Code::Blocks on Windows.
Let me know if you get anywhere, or send me a pull request with a Code::Blocks project file. Unfortunately there is more info in a Hexen II map file than in a Quake map file, so support for the game is not a question of simply adding an FGD.
I have found an updated FGD and wads here: http://dronedev.net/mapconv/ I can't load any maps other than those I've just made with TrenchBroom; I can't even load a map I made with a different version of TB.
I tried loading E1M1.MAP and a couple of other things, but no luck whatsoever. At first I thought it was the 3d view, but I can draw new brushes as usual. If I save a map, I can then load it and have it work properly - only previously saved maps aren't working :/ When trying to load these maps, there are no error messages, but no textures or entities load with the map, and nothing is displayed in the 3d view unless I draw a brush :( saving gives me a 0KB file, so the map is clearly not being loaded. Anyone else have this issue? Note that this is *not* some broken version I just compiled (still working on it :/ ), but the regular windows download from the TB homepage (1.0.4 129). not having that issue with that version at all.
when loading a map does the console window show something like: Unloading existing map file and textures... Loading file E:\q1maps\blahh2.map Loaded map file in 0.000000 seconds Loaded E:\q1maps\hex2.wad in 0.005000 seconds ? I don't know if this has been suggested or is already implemented, but there definitely need to be options to move (or add) world brushes to an existing brush entity as well as the other way around. Ideally a little more versatile than "ungroup" in Radiant 1.5 which always converts (or removes if you will) the entire entity, whereas it's sometimes desirable only to apply the action to certain brushes.
You already can added and remove brushes that way. to add to the world spawn, you select the objects in the brush entity and then right click outside the selection "add to world spawn"... and vice versa to add to an entity.
Can you send me all the defs/fgs you're using currently?
Latest download has just quake/quoth fgd and rubicon2 def. I tried to fix more of the
I made a FAIL video of my attempts to fix the At the end of the video, I give up on heretic2.def, where the error was asking for a newline but I did not believe it. Well, after the video, I tried newline, and it worked. Had to fix 10 more of those newline errors. Eventually, I finished, and heretic2.def now loads in TrenchBroom. Here is the link: Fixed heretic2.def - https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0piElswxauhSTduYTNGaFdjSWM/edit I'll link you the hexen2.def file again as well, hexen2.def - https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0piElswxauhbnZJQ2Q2WGxHUDg/edit FAIL video of my attempts to fix Has hexen 2 fgds I think. Probably zerstorer and others. Try downloading it from the tools section of quaddicted.
I already have these FGDs now:
from The Forge - Quake Scource of Armagon - Quake Dissolution of Eternity - Zerstoerer - Hexen 2 - Quake 2 with Arghrad support - Quake 2 Ground Zero - Quake 2 The Reckoning from Hexen 2 Hammer adapter - Hexen 2 (bit.ly/XDpPZ4) For now, it does not make much sense to work on DEFs or FGDs for games that need extra support from TrenchBroom, as this will take a while. And since noone really maps for the MPs or Zerstoerer, there's not much to be gained from pouring work into improving those FGDs either. a few minor glitches i'm getting; after 674 posts i can't be 100% sure they haven't occurred for anyone else and are being looked at!
1. the 'X' button on the view and texture filters don't seem to work; they select the text in their respective fields but don't remove anything 2. the keyboard shortcut for rotating a texture 90 degrees does nothing for me; i can do it by holding ctrl and clicking on the spinner, and can also press shift-pgdn to rotate it one degree, but nothing for ctrl-pgdn/pgup 3. the increase/decrease grid size shortcuts only work on the -/+ keys next to backspace, not the num pad ones (which are far easier to access without looking!) also some minor interface suggestions: 1. it would be nice to have some visual indication of texture lock being on or off without having to check the edit menu. and definitely a shortcut to toggle it :) 2. same goes for current grid size; i remember you saying you were considering an alternative to a status bar though so assuming this is being considered already. 3. pretty much second DaZ's thoughts about the entity window in his video. you may have already figured out a solution but i think it would be cool being able to add field names by right-clicking and selecting from a little menu based on the fgd/def info for that entity lastly, a question: is there a keyboard shortcut to switch between the entity/face/view tabs? a few minor glitches i'm getting; after 674 posts i can't be 100% sure they haven't occurred for anyone else and aren't being looked at!
1. the 'X' buttons on the view and texture filters don't seem to work; they select the text in their respective fields but don't remove anything 1. the 'X' button on the view and texture filters don't seem to work; they select the text in their respective fields but don't remove anything
That's a bug in the GUI library I'm using. Not much I can do about it right now I'm afraid. 2. the keyboard shortcut for rotating a texture 90 degrees does nothing for me; i can do it by holding ctrl and clicking on the spinner, and can also press shift-pgdn to rotate it one degree, but nothing for ctrl-pgdn/pgup There is no such shortcut AFAIK. What exactly are you trying to do? 3. the increase/decrease grid size shortcuts only work on the -/+ keys next to backspace, not the num pad ones (which are far easier to access without looking!) You will be able to assign the keyboard shortcuts in 1.1. 1. it would be nice to have some visual indication of texture lock being on or off without having to check the edit menu. and definitely a shortcut to toggle it :) Others have request this, too, and it will probably go into the toolbar. 2. same goes for current grid size; i remember you saying you were considering an alternative to a status bar though so assuming this is being considered already. Ditto. 3. pretty much second DaZ's thoughts about the entity window in his video. you may have already figured out a solution but i think it would be cool being able to add field names by right-clicking and selecting from a little menu based on the fgd/def info for that entity Yes, entity editing will be improved a lot in 1.2. lastly, a question: is there a keyboard shortcut to switch between the entity/face/view tabs? Not yet, but it's on my todo list. Thanks for your feedback! There is no such shortcut AFAIK. What exactly are you trying to do?
following the guide here: http://kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/docs/working_with_textures.html ('Texture Rotation' heading) Thanks for your feedback! thanks for your editor! another suggestion i forgot to mention. it might make everything a little bit quicker to use if running the cursor over a window/region made it 'active' providing a button isn't being pressed during mouse movement (i think this is how WC works)
sometimes i have to click in the viewport before being able to select a brush after working in the side panel, and other times i don't. not noticed any correlation yet though So you're shift-clicking on the little spin buttons next to the rotation field? Does Shift+click work for buttons next to the offset fields?
Regarding the focus issues: The 3D view has a focus rectangle drawn around it, and if you focus any other controls, you have to return focus to the 3D view by clicking on it once. Is the focus rectangle visible on your system? I have noticed that it is sometimes hard to see on Windows. What might help there would be to do what 3DS Max does
Hello SleepwalkR,
I was curious to check out the original source files inside Trench from quake 1. And from the looks of things they wont load? http://planetquake.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Quake.Detail&id=343 Here is the original Map files from ID software. I guess that the Cheers! How do you guys organise your wad files? TB always opens the "Quake directory" when I want to load wads. I would much rather have it always open the dir I lastly picked a wad in. Opinions?
Ah, ok. When you said 'defs' before I was too literal.
The time difference worked against me, so hopefully I'll be able to do them tonight instead. I was going to go with what Rubicon2 has defined, but I don't agree with everything there since some of the elements are mixed. I prefer to group things by colour, how does this sound; Player (all types of starts and tele destinations) Monsters Lights Misc objects (fireballs, barrels etc) Fx (sound/visual) Path / Logic (relay, path_corners) Collectables (Health / Armour) Weapons / Powerups Traps What colours each one will be depend on visibility in the editor. I'll stick to precedents like monsters being red, although some things won't make sense - both lights and the player being green, for example will mean lights changing colour because the player should take precedent. You really have to make it so that you can easily edit the angle of which doors open. Having to always manually set the angle by typing a number is really annoying and makes the whole process much more time consuming and annoying then it has to be.
In fact, having to manually type in all the values in the first place is annoying. Create some buttons for christs sakes! I just created a website for the purpose of reviewing Quake maps called QuakeBlast.
http://quakeblast.webs.com/ If anyone is interested then they can send me the maps that they create with SleepWalkR's new editor :) Please make sure to use red sparsely because it's hard to differentiate selected entities from unselected entities that have the color red.
Texture rotation: Okay, got it - will fix in 1.0.5.
Focus: Looks like it's a big buggy. I'll look into it. I won't change it though as otherwise, you will inadvertedly select / deselect stuff a lot. Better support for entity editing incl. a smart entity editor for angles is planned for 1.2.
Cool site, I hope there will be many maps to review soon. That's what it does right now?
Haha So it IS working but there's a redraw issue. Understanble, SleepwalkR. I know you mentioned earlier that there is more to "it" than just a
lastly, a question: is there a keyboard shortcut to switch between the entity/face/view tabs? I don't think so, but, on Windows when I pressed SHIFT+RIGHT_ARROW, it switched over to those tabs and switch through those tabs each time I pressed SHIFT+RIGHT_ARROW. I just created a website for the purpose of reviewing Quake maps called QuakeBlast. We have lvlworld.com for that. They've been around for over 10+ years. I doubt you want to try and compete with that? Even if you did, you would want quakeblast.com as your domain name, not quakeblast.webs.com. The shortcuts you are using for the tabs are coincidental. I will add commands to directly switch to and activate the tabs (and also one to switch back to the 3D view from wherever you are) which you can assign shortcuts to yourself in 1.1.
If I'm not mistaken, lvlworld is exclusively for Quake 3, no? Also, competition is good for business, so the more, the merrier! I am not trying to compete with anyone. I just wanted a cute little site of my own where I review some Quake maps. It's a hobby, basically.
Did you have a look at some of the more recent Quake releases over at http://www.quaddicted.com? Maybe you could pick a few and write reviews for them so as to get some initial content going.
There's Tronyn Reviews @ quaddicted.com at the moment, for Quake 1, though he doesn't review every single map AFAIK (most though). But since Underworld Fan gave up the job about 5 years ago, there hasn't been a dedicated review site, only the reviews on Quaddicted (long live Spirit, Tronyn etc and thank goodness they were there the last five years) dot com.
So a new Quake review site isn't such a bad thing. I mean I take it that this site has sprung up amidst all of the buzz around Trenchbroom, but I hope it's not just for Trenchbroom maps. There are a lot of mappers still mapping for Quake (the flow of Quake 1 maps never stopped completely, though it did slow some), and with BSP2 now accessible there is scope for some of the biggest and baddest maps to date. I personally think that Quake has yet to peak. There's something inherantly attractive about one person being able to develop a whole map or episode for a true 3D game like Quake. Because Quake is fairly low res and simple, and doesn't require a degree in Lua to 'script' for, not to mention the voice actors and modellers etc etc, and because the ceiling for large maps has just been raised to four times the height it was before I really think that the best has still to come.... But no - two quastions: 1 - Is the site exclusive to Trenchbroom Maps because the majority of Quake mappers have yet to adopt it (not saying they wont, but it's abig transition))(I'm guessing not) 2 - Who will review the maps? Will there be a community scoring system? Will there be one person who reviews the maps (this has positives and negatives - positives being that 1 persons POV is a solid thing (i.e. the Tronyn benchmark - "I usually like the same maps he likes, so this one must be good"), negatives being an individuals bias potential) 3 - I like Deqer now, Deqer sorry for swearing at you and being a bit mean, I felt bad once I read your subsequent messages and realised you were sincere in your messages and your enthusiasm for Quake/dev. It will actually be cool if hakkarin reviews new maps without knowing about an authors previous maps.
Like a lot of us will know that some mappers work is going to always be awesome, and expect nothing less, but someone who hasn't played all of them and doesn't know all of the various mappers and their work will have no preconceptions based upon the name. That would be cool. This should probably get moved to another thread. hakkarin - please create a news post in the News section, it will go out over RSS for starters, and it will stop us from having the rest of this discussion on the Trenchbroom thread :) I feel it could be a lengthy one. I am personally not a fan of scoring at all. I prefer in-depth textual reviews such as the ones on TeamShambler or The Ramshackle. I realize those sites had ratings, but personally I don't think it's necessary.
The problem with ratings is that they don't serve much of a purpose (unless you're running Quaddicted and want to be able to sort the maps by them) and they instantly spark debate. I would much rather read a detailed analysis for certain aspects of a map (item placement, architecture and so on) than get a short description of the map and rating. Ricky, a community scoring system makes sense on Quaddicted, but not so much on a review site IMHO. That said, I say let hakkarin figure it out by himself. He hasn't written a single review yet and we're already meddling with it ;-) The thing with long and wordy reviews is that in my opinion they only really entertain the writer and the map author. I play a map or I don't. Reading a long review does not affect me in that decision.
Great to see a new face/nick, welcome hakkarin! I did as you guys suggested and posted about the new site in the news, though the post hasn't be approved yet. And no, there is no rule that demands that maps must be made with TrenchBroom in order to be reviewed. And yes I will have scores on the site because who doesn't love em? There will still actual written reviews as well though, because having only numbers as scores would be very boring :)
Oh and if I could turn back time, Quaddicted would use a much reduced scale for ratings, 1 to 3 as in "no", "try", "play it".
Personally I am more interested in in-depth analysis of someone with a deep understanding of level design / game flow / etc. than I am in reading a short review. I don't need scores to tell me to play or not to play a map - come on, it's not like we get bombarded with new maps and have to choose, right?
The trouble that I've seen with wordy review sites is that they tend to start treading the same ground and start using the same phrases over and over. Which is understandable given the subject matter but it is witheringly difficult to give a fresh and in-depth critique to each and every map. Maybe if there was a team of writers or something who could switch off map reviews...
I always enjoy reading well-written reviews, having another person deconstruct your work is always a great way to learn and improve. I don't mind rating systems as long as it's a good representation of the opinion of the reviewer and not some pseudo-scientific calculation (1-5 star reviews are good, like the old CVG reviews)
And what Palette?
Finding it difficult to assign different ones to the various groupings. Not sure what exactly you're asking, but maybe these links will help:
Quake palette: http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quake/wad_conv/palette.html The color codes for Quake palette: http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quake/wad_conv/quakepal.txt Got it.
Fgd uses rgb 0-255 while Def uses 0-1. So all the worldcraft values are invalid - any number at all clamps to 100%. Fixing. https://www.dropbox.com/s/dqnm02pth5313sd/Quake.fgd
This uses the 0-1 colour scale. However, in order to read future fgd's out of the box, without having to convert by hand, you might want to consider reading their native 0-255 rgb format. In regard to how I grouped things, I tried to make it forwards compatible with any new entities a modder might require: Logic - white Dangerous Stuff - Orange Atmosphere, lighting - Yellow Misc - Turquoise Pathing - Purple Collectables - Blue Ammo - Dark Purple Players / Camera - Green The sub groupings of stuff have slight variations within those broad colours. I'll do the Quoth one if you decide to keep the 0-1 colour format, along with some cleanup to make them easier to read. Thanks, I've been looking for a colour key for ages since a link I had to an image was lost when a site closed.
That I thought so. It took me longer to figure out why it was displaying weirdly, and even then not long either so no problem.
The website is now more or less ready and I included a link on it to TrenchBroom's own homepage.
ok, so last night I changed a value in LinuxCapabilities to force 24bit z-buffer on my laptop and the z-buffer started to work normally.
I was knackered from a long cycle trip, so that's all I did, but next time I get a chance, I'll have a better look at that file and see if I can figure out if I can fix it so that it works without forced value setting. If not, at least I have a build that I can probably use now :) - Fixed a crash when undoing edge and face move operations.
- Improved map loading speed. - Improved accuracy of vertex computation. - Added antialiasing for grid lines (rebb). - Thin out grid lines after a certain distance (rebb). - Draw thinner grid lines for small grid sizes. - Added face shading depending on view direction (rebb). - Fixed a performance problem when editing face attributes. - Place initial brush in new maps and make the camera look at it. - Position pasted objects so that they line up with objects under the mouse cursor. - Added option to use Alt+MMB to move the camera forward and backward. - Fixed parsing of color values in FGD files. - Improved Quake.fgd and Quoth2.fgd. - Updated and fixed some errors in the documentation. on my machine. I have microsoft sidewinder mouse.
Also was there something wrong with the brush creation / vertex manip on version 1 that the editor now picks up a couple of brushes in my map and deletes them because they're invalid? Vertex manip seems better, like the shading, no longer have the map loading speed problems I had before, better grid etc. It's definitely all-round better. You must activate Alt+MMB drag in the preferences. It is mainly targeted at Wacom Tablet users though.
Regarding the brushes, send me the map file please so that I can test it. The whole vertices vs. face planes issue is still not quite resolved in TrenchBroom, but I'm working towards it so that these things can happen. That said, maybe I fucked something up, so make sure to open a bug and paste the file there. even though I checked the box in preferences, I even updated my mouse drivers.
I'll send you a private link to the map file, it's not quite finished yet (still a ways to go!). What would be killer would be if ALT+MMB would fly towards whatever the mouse is pointing at instead of just the camera facing direction. That would be really useful.
What? No.
Have it work just like ALT+MMB does now except instead of moving towards the camera direction it moves towards where my mouse pointer is pointing. The Alt+MMB option is targeted at Wacom users. As I understand it, they don't have a mouse wheel. Maybe what you are suggesting would be useful for the flythrough mode. I'll add it to the issue tracker, maybe there's some way to incorporate it.
It's just something that most of my 3D apps have. It lets you navigate your model very quickly. You just point at what you want to get closer to and zoom. It's a lot faster than trying to aim the camera first.
Just a suggestion! But I'd rather have it work independently of the Alt+MMB thing, as that is merely a replacement for using the mouse wheel to zoom.
Maybe something like Shift+Mousewheel / Shift+Alt+MMB. What exactly does it do? Does it just move the camera position or does it also point the camera to where the mouse points, effectively rotating it?
Here's a quick video of me doing it in Modo:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/161473/Misc/ScreenCapture_3-18-2013%207.36.49%20AM.wmv The way it works in Modo is: MouseWheel - Zoom along camera angle Zoom - Zooms towards the mouse cursor Actually, never mind my video. This is a WAY better explanation of it, using Blender:
http://cgcookie.com/blender/2010/07/03/tip-zooming-to-the-mouse-cursor/ This is a very tablet friendly option, BTW, as there's less navigation to do. You get where you're going in one zoom as opposed to a camera turn and THEN a zoom. So it just moves the camera and doesn't rotate it. You're saying it's tablet friendly, so maybe it should be the default for Alt+MMB after all.
Than? Tablet wise, I think Modo has a well thought out navigation scheme.
Rotate - ALT+LEFT_DRAG Pan - SHIFT+ALT+LEFT_DRAG Zoom (to mouse) - CTRL+ALT+LEFT_DRAG It all hinges on the ALT+LEFT_DRAG with some modifiers thrown in. Not saying you should do this but it's more to point out how I can totally navigate with a tablet by simplying pressing and dragging the stylus. I don't have to use the pen buttons at all. And to be clear, I'm not too fussed about TrenchBroom being tablet friendly I was just riffing on what you had said earlier.
I'd never considered using my Cintiq to map for Quake I wanted a non-mousewheel way of zooming, since I don't use a mouse at all. I had some wrist strain a few years back and since then just switched to a tablet for almost everything. I also have a Thinkpad laptop which has the nipple pointer and no mousewheel, though I will plug in my wacom if TrenchBroom becomes a bit more stable on Linux (lots of crashing with the clipper and vertex manipulation on my lappy :( )
I'm rather used to Maya 3d navigation, which is similar to Modo I think. I think that is the 3d software standard, pretty much - it's only Blender that has a totally different navigation scheme :) Worldcraft actually has extremely good and well thought out controls. It separates everything into modes (brush creation mode, entity mode, zoom mode, camera mode, texture application, clipper, vertex/edge edit), but has great controls for each mode and you can hold space to enable camera mode at any time (each mode also has shortcuts). I'm not suggesting you copy it though. has by far the worst controls IMO. The moded interface is a productivity killer, at least it was for me. My mapping got twice as fast when I switched to Radiant just because I didn't have to switch modes to do anything anymore. </rant>
But about those linux crashes - that is really odd because it shouldn't crash in vertex editing or anything. These things are exactly the same on every platform. Menu crashes I can understand, but the other stuff? Hmm. Spirit also hasn't reported any unstability with the regular editing functions. Maybe I will have to set up a Mint Linux to try it out. "crash in vertex editing" in linux? Not sure if that's similar to the issue I experienced with my crappy video card, that I resolved by going into trenchbroom preferences and turning "OpenGL Instancing" to "Forced Off" fixed that crash.
Than, did you try that? What exactly crashes the editor for you? Because I think the clip tool also uses instancing.
is set to forced off in the menus. Without it turned off, vertex editing crashes instantly.
The console prints this info at startup: Renderer info: Mesa DRI Intel(R) 965GM x86/MMX/SSE2 version 2.1 Mesa 9.0.2 from Intel Open Source Technology Center Depth buffer bits: 24 Multisampling disabled OpenGL instancing disabled I just tried again and this time there was no crash, but after clipping I couldn't seem to creat a brush. I could go into vertex edit mode though It made me bring out my old tower and send it in for repairs, because that's my gaming tower. it's from August-2011, but power button suddenly stopped working aroung August-2012, and I just let the tower sit there for months.
But, I want to try trenchbroom without issues, so, TB is what pushed me to pull this tower out and send it in for repairs. It has decent gaming video card in it. I'm on my laptop, in the meantime. Which has been fun, because I've gotten a nice feel of remote computing now, and bring my laptop to my couch, or to my stand-up desk. Nice to be able to simply move it where ever I want, including my patio outside. mfx, and Willem are on my shitlist now. grats, guys. One less person to respond/comment to anything you have to say, or any screenshots you post, or whatever. Less work for me. :)
"Who cares?" Well, since the story was about TrenchBroom, then I think SleepwalkR would find it a nice bit to hear that his editor pushed me to fix my tower to try his editor. Maybe. You sound like a bunch of jealous girls that have no such stories to share. Not my problem, that's your problem. Bye. :) What was once one slightly boring post in a previously interesting thread is now eight very boring posts. Actually, now it's nine because of me.
I like TrenchBroom because it's cool. Nope. Just you, Willem, and mfx. Everyone else is fine. But, you two, yes, you two have already had your 5 strikes. Yes, 5 strikes, not 3 strikes. I gave you 5, and you've used them up already, here and in other threads. 5 strikes; that's how much patience I gave.
Good day. 1. please read this carefully:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superiority_complex 2. calm down already. 3. stop posting irrelevant bollox in this sacred thread. Nope. Just you, Willem, and mfx. Everyone else is fine. But, you two, yes, you two have already had your 5 strikes. Yes, 5 strikes, not 3 strikes. I gave you 5, and you've used them up already, here and in other threads. 5 strikes; that's how much patience I gave.
http://cdn.crushable.com/files/2012/07/jlaw-okay.gif Could find func_detail in trenchbroom...
func_detail seems to be not included. Has someone a working Quake.fgd with func_detail support for trenchbroom? The included
The included
Not exactly mmh - the result is not that what i expected.
uncommented the func_detail, made a boxed "testchamper", placed some irregular/complex brushes in it and compiled with tyrann's tools = still got a messed up (highly splitt/weirdly triangled) bsp (r_showtris 1) Vis may have been faster.. Maybe i'm betting on the wrong horse. :-) How do i prevent irregular brushes to splitt the bsp then? i thought func_detail would be the right way. Func_wall 'em? enlight me. In Quake, detail brushes only speed up the vis process. Apart from that, they are treated like normal world geometry. If you want to avoid splitting, you'll have to make it a func_wall.
Thanx.
Seems that my hl and q3 based memory tricked me. i stopped mapping for ages, restarted with trenchbroom 'caused it feels nice to work with. Great job btw. Love it. I'm noobish and ignorant, but is there any reason to not simply use func wall for details like that?
func_walls are entities and come with several issues. like OTP said, no shadows. Also, stock engines have limitations on edicts and models present in a bsp, so using lots of them (or in a larger map) can lead to needing to perform balancing acts if you want to stay under those limits.
func_details are not actually entities, despite being used like them in an editor. They are world geometry, and cut the world geometry as normal, but are not considered while calculating the PVS. Having the _shadow and _selfshadow keys to make the features opt-in makes a lot of sense - because the compiler can't tell if the entity class is meant to be static, to slide or to rotate (well, it might have some hints about rotation but still). But how would people feel about fgd/def files which add the keys by default - for example to add "_shadow 1" to newly created func_wall, and "_selfshadow 1" to func_train?
Those at intermediate level will know how to disable it.
Last thing about func_wall - they only draw if vis believes the player can see them, so if they stretch through several leafs then they will go invisible in stock engines, depending on where you're stood. I'll use detail brushes to relight RMQ demo 2. And then everything that should cast shadows will cast shadows. Had to resort to func_walls at the last minute to make vis time go from quad-core-melting to fast enough for the deadline. :-( It still bugs me because I know what it used to look like.
I bought a new Microsoft Arc Mouse as my Sidewinder one had died after 5 years loyal service. The editor is practically unusable with this mouse, infact the mouse is practically unusable with anything, the scroll wheel control doesn't work properly with it (infinite scrolling nightmares!). Hand hurt after 30 minutes usage too, never buy one!
the logitech mx510/518s are really great mice. good shape and size, fits in your hand. they've been around for ages now.
necros speaks truth. My back/shoulder/arm are
I have seen a lot of love for logitech mice but every time I have bought one it breaks or goes a bit crazy after only a few months. I tried a few at the computer store and I think I'm going to grab either a Razor Abyssus Mirror, CM Storm Recon, or Razer Deathadder... I put my hand on those and they're more like my old sidewinder. I think maybe my hand is so used to a big mouse that I can't go to a small sleek one (I wanted the arc for portability for when I grab a Surface Pro)
that's odd. I have two mx510s, and only got the second because the first one had all the paint worn off-- it still works perfectly.
maybe you just had bad luck? No doubt it's bad luck but it's now become a bit of a superstition for me to avoid logitech mice (though I checked the website for the store and they don't have either of those models in anyway :P). I like the build quality of MS mice in general so me buying any other brand is a big deviation really. Anyway, cheers for the advice :P
Logitech gives great guarantee and generous customer service. at least in Germany. I love their mice, best available.
And they'll be my last.
Planned obsolescence is rampant in peripherals. I also quit buying anything Sony, Phillips and Apple since those are terrible in that regard. The nerve some of these companies have in selling overpriced garbage... wish everyone would quit buying from such brands that so they could shove their fecal business models down their buttholes. I bought a Razer Abyssus now, hopefully that one will last a bit longer. Every Logitech mouse I've owned has been a tank that will not quit. Not sure what you guys are doing wrong. :P
...but this little logitech I'm handling(no fancy stuff, a very basic one) is with me at least since 2005...
mx500 for ~5 years, didn't break, just got disgusting over time. now a 518 for 3 years with no problems.
First wireless mouse I have bought, and it's very nice. Eats up the batteries, but I have eneloops and a smart charger, so I don't care.
so I tried out the mice above in the store and then I caught a glimpse of a G400 logitech mouse in another part of the store, played with it for a bit and decided to buy it despite my poor experiences in the past (which were admittedly a long time ago).
I bought a Logitech M100 a couple of years ago, it works so well I got a second one last month for my other computer - $10 at Walmart :)
I don't know if this was an intended change but I liked in the previous versions that I could shift+click a surface to copy the texture and then make a brush with it. For some reason this no longer works!
Okay, so in Quark if I made something like a trigger_push under the entity tab Quark would already have things like direction and force put in so you just had to add in the numbers/names you wanted there. Is it possible to have that added to Trench Broom? I think it's very helpful for first time and casual mappers who don't know or can't always remember the arguments for these things.
Okay, so in Quark if I made something like a trigger_push under the entity tab Quark would already have things like direction and force put in so you just had to add in the numbers/names you wanted there. Is it possible to have that added to Trench Broom? I think it's very helpful for first time and casual mappers who don't know or can't always remember the arguments for these things.
Is it possible to make it so that when you vertex edit an object that the vertices on the back faces are not shown? The reason being that editing something like this is a terrifying nightmare!
http://s9.postimg.org/k0u8koezj/vertexhell.jpg Thing is, in many situations it's useful to see the back vertices too. I'll add this as a feature request.
but as you can see in instances where you are editing terrain/rock I think it's best that all the back faces are actually flush. I really believe this is why I was getting bsp holes and HOM problems, I'm trying not to touch the back faces this time.
yeah i did think that when watching daz's video. it is useful to see them sometimes but i imagine some kind of toggle would be handy
would it be doable to add Blender-style Extrude and Loop Cut tools to a brush based map editor?
I was using Blender a lot recently and I thought, gosh, if I had this in a map editor... it would accelerate the workflow a lot. If somebody ever invents that fabled "take my model file and break it down into convex chunks automatically" routine I would live in Modo for Quake mapping. Would be spectacular...
that would be even better, yeah. Extrude and loop cut might be doable though, although any shape that resulted in an invalid brush would have to be split off at the new edge loop automatically...
Alternatively, one could make q3map2 spit out Quake 1 BSP files, so we could map in a modeling suite and just assemble the map from static meshes... just need a compiler that bakes static meshes into the BSP. The trouble is both edge loops and extrudes are going to be problematic in TB since it optimizes the brush into planes after each operation. So you'll insert the loop and TB will optimize it away immediately afterwards. :P I think, anyway...
Yeah I know, I was just theorising out loud as to why my terrain may have caused holes before. The way I have done the terrain still isn't perfect though.
Loop cut adds an edge loop, which creates new polygons. It is very useful to create subdivisions in a mesh where you want them, to give you new geometry to sculpt. Like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4U-gvw2E4w Note how the cut is semi-intelligent - you move it around the mesh and it shows you where it *would* make the cut if you were to apply it now. You can easily place a lot of new verts / faces into your mesh with this tool and then extrude the new faces etc. Extrude basically duplicates a face and allows you to "pull it out" of the mesh, adding geometry to that area of the mesh. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLSiHd9f1PA actually, extrude doesn't duplicate the extruded face - brainfart on my part. It creates new faces when the extruded face is pulled out.
It's got a certain poetic, romantic flavour. Most exquisite rhyming couplet... (sips tea)
I'm getting same problem as FifthElephant, on a different box.
This file is missing, and says to try re-installing the program--even though it was never installed to begin with; it was extracted from a zip. I'm on windows7 x64. I installed the vcredist_x64.exe, but I still get this error message. using nvidia geforce gts450, latest drivers. there is TrenchBroom.log file, but it was not updated with any information for today, probably because the program doesn't even have a chance to open up, because i immediately get this windows prompt window error message of this missing dll file. edgeloop = clip tool
and since brushes are convex volumnes defined by planes, you wont ever have ability to freely create new edges like in polygonal modelling extrude = clone+drag for planar faces for non-planar its not that simple and actually this could be doable new editor feature: draw new brush based on a selected face and normal which could be a very feature useful to have.
eg. boxing out rooms and the using the clip tool to cut out the doors. Just do 3 quick splits and remove the unwanted brush. Do another split above the door for instant trim... Could allow for speedy mapping in combination with csg-hollow. Implementation could be hitting shift+return instead of just return. Or something among those lines. Okay, tab works like magic. Lol.
Think I'm gonna use that a lot. /noob I don't remember getting that error, mine has been working for a month. I do remember that I had to update my graphics card drivers to the latest version to solve the problem I had. (I was using a fresh out-the-box install of Windows 8)
Isn't this what you mean: https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/418
Yeah, FifthElephant, it was one of the first 25 posts of this thread. Google remembers.
SleepwalkR, yah, vcredist_x86.exe works now. Spiney, now I know you didn't watch my trenchbroom video on clip. :) --- Extrude could be powerful, and therefore seems worth it for the programmer to make it. However, I disagree with edge loop. EdgeLoop though seems like a feature for lazy people that couldn't just simply just press C and clip several times, therefore wouldn't be worth it to the programmer to make this. Also, it's probably not often you'd use this feature anyways. But since Clip already exists, then I suppose it would be somewhat easy for the programmer to take that and make an EdgeLooping function. Edgeloops don't split the brush - they add an edge loop. Don't call people lazy when you don't even understand what's being proposed.
This covers the Max version pretty well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rJdMLmQRiE It's a standard modeling tool. I'm not saying it's something that TB needs but I took issue with it being called the same thing as a clip. It isn't. :) In a world of quake bushes it is essentially a clip tool. The edges are planes intersections, you cant have overlapping planes of the same brush.
This is why I said that it wouldn't work in TB as it's currently coded because the added edgeloop would be optimized away the frame after it was created. The only way edgeloops are useful is if TB will leave the brush alone until some point when the user "commits" the change.
It's probably more work than it's worth, to be honest. But it's not a clip tool. :) And yes clipping is different, but it serves the same practical purpose.
flipping edges would be interesting, but i'm not sure how that could be done in TB since each brush exists on it's own independently of it's neighbours.
You guys have to remember that I'm not familiar with any 3D modeling package ;-)
Basically, if you have a quad broken into 2 triangles, edge turning turns the quad so the triangles from the other corners.
So |/| becomes |\| Useful for correcting shading and lighting errors on 3D stuff. @ the extrude image: Yeah, that was about what I meant. Pull the new brush out along the face normal. Usually followed by moving the "new" vertices to where one wants them, then extruding again (typically used for quickly blocking out shapes, like for example curves).
Edge loop is clip: Not quite. In terms of brushes, it would do much the same thing, but clip isn't as user friendly or intelligent. If you can make the clip tool able to do multiple parallel clips in one go, and intelligently choose the clipping plane according to the position of the mouse cursor and keep all the new brushes after the clipping, and let you slide the clipping plane(s) along the brush with the mouse, then it might get close. slapmap: Anything that speeds up the workflow is a good idea, IMO. It's up to Sleepwalker if he considers any of this useful, of course. Regarding edge turning, it would probably also give the mapper some control over which way the quads are split in the BSP process. For outlying terrain at least. Smooth triangle strips, all tris going the same direction, render faster, afaik. But then, inside a complex map, this wouldn't be enough to control the splitting, of course. Now if you had triangle terrain and you turned it into detail brushes, then you might be able to influence the splitting. Sorry, yes it's what Willem said, however, there is an application for it in TB.
You have 2 brushes with 2 adjacent 3 sided faces forming a 4 sided surface. The 2 3 sided faces are not coplanar. You want to change the split between the two brushes while preserving the position of the vertices: http://necros.fov120.com/temp/trenchbroom/edgeTurning.jpg I think this would be useful on a terrain mesh. Using it would flip the dividing edge between two triangular brushes, which allows you to smooth out surface geometry of a terrain without adding more tris, but simply by optimising the flow of the edges in the mesh.
http://openmesh.org/Documentation/OpenMesh-2.0.1-Documentation/mesh.flip.png I often do this manually when modifying terrain in Worldcraft. Terrain is about the only place I think I would use it though. yeah, it's of somewhat limited use, but where it is useful (terrain), it's powerful.
so it's kind of a toss up really. I would definitely like edge flipping. I used in WC also, I can think of more applications than just terrain (though admittedly this is the primary function).
TB, the clip tool is already pretty smart at choosing a clip plane even if you have only one clip point. And you can split brushes with it, that is, keep both sides.
Is really good actually, I didn't even use 3 point clipping at first because I never really used it in WC but I'm getting into a good work flow now.
Yep, clip tool is nice. Clip, clip, and you already have a 4-piece/piece of terrain. Duplicate, duplicate, etc. and you have land of terrain. Drag edge/vertices, and wallah!
FEATURE REQUEST: For light entities, draw a faint lined circle around the entity in the 3d viewer. The circle is as big as the "light" setting of the light entity. If light = 300, then circle is that big. These circles can be turned on or off. --- SIDE NOTE: Double check that the entity panel has the stuff in it from the Light value visualized by circlesize or just the digit + color.
Only if selected.. And light simulation, what a candy that would be! 'visualization spheres' or whatever are rarely that useful in all the editor's I've used them in. I think the devtime making these should be work toward a proper 'lighted preview mode', with the spheres used in the interm, and as the basis for doing the shading.
To do spheres right, you are going need to implement detecting all the different 'delay' and 'wait' settings. And spotlight cones. I feel if you're going to do all that, it should be on the road to shaded preview. Not sure if it's possible, but maybe the programmer can use a pre-made script that already does live rendering of lighting when adding lights, similar to the editors used for Quake4/Doom3.
According to this page: http://icculus.org/gtkradiant/developers.html#gamepacks the GTK Radiant 1.5 release was the editor used for those games. It's open source, so, if it's the same as TrenchBroom, maybe you can grab the code from there? Basically, soon as you add your first light, the entire map turns black, because now it's live rendering lights, and only light is shown on the walls from the lights in your map. Anyways, definitely would be candy. Probably too much to ask for. It seems like alot of work, but pre-baking the lightmaps to brush faces seems doable no? The source to Light.exe is available, I'm sure it's not so simple, but isn't it possible to adapt it to bake lightmaps to brush faces instead of a completed bsp?
Would be pretty nice, you could pre-bake your whole map (would be longer than light maybe, since no faces are culled at that point), and then maybe have options to only bake selected lights/brushes to update pieces you're working on... But yeah, I'm sure it's not a simple feature to implement. be just an approximation of Quake's lighting model implemented as a shader. I don't think it's feasible to compute the lightmaps using light's code. But I will surely look at the code so that I can approximate it as closely as possible.
I'm not sure it will accurately reflect whatever lighting compiler you use, I've noticed that the wait and delay keys attached to lights can produce quite different results depending on the compiler you use. It probably shouldn't but with people adding different features to compilers it is probably going to get more pronounced over time (and may render this feature into more of a vague guide than an accurate way to light a map).
"Light spheres" are in radiant and yeah, inaccurate and not that useful, except for showing the inner radius for square falloff.
Sidenote: oh my, so many radiants already, even improved D3 one! Yes. I never found Radiant's Light Radii very useful. Quest had a nice lighting preview. Standard fall off only, but enough to get a basic overview. Of course, it was slow as hell since there was no hardware rendering. Perhaps a peak at the Quest source can give the programmer an idea of how to (or how not to?) approach this.
Referring to post 685 from someone else, I still can't load the quake 1 map sources. I originally had 1.04, now I have the latest 1.05 and it gives me a generic error when I try to open the John Romero Quake map sources from planetquake.
It's because John Romero marked all the map files as "Read Only" before zipping them all up. Not sure why.
Right-click the map(s) and go to properties and uncheck "Read Only", and click Apply. FEATURE REQUEST:
I personally would like to have the textures CLIP, and TRIGGER be 50% transparent when displayed in 3D view on brushes. I also would like the option to turn on 50% transparency for all textures that begin with "*" which are mostly water textures. I'm strictly vanilla Quake; and in Vanilla, water was not transparent. Therefore, I think it should be an option in the Preferences, and the default be OFF. --- I also, I really like that idea on your github about linking entities with the target/targetname, and targetname2, etc. stuff. You don't need to post here AND on the feature tracker. I see everything you post there, so I won't miss it ;-)
Regarding the feature request, that was already requested by rebb, and I have moved it up to the 1.2 release. Might even move it up to 1.1. The target links feature is partly done, but needs to be integrated by me. Might move this up to 1.1 too. Will it work for Quake 2/Q3A? While I'm not 100% convinced about original quake modding, I'm all for modding second installment (superior story-wise and gameplay-wise to any Quake game, including Q4) or multiplayer entry for the series.
I'd like to know also if it would work for any open source games that uses quake engine (Tremoluos, etc.). I've tried to learn Radiant editor and other "2D" ones, but they don't talk to me, this one does. Q2 and Q3 are on my todo list, but it will take a while. Support of other games that use idTech depends mostly on whether there is someone advocating it and helping out.
will mean I will probably never leave my house or computer ever again... This is not the best idea.
Changes
- New text rendering system (faster and fewer glitches) - Brush drawing now more accurate (see docs) - Option to use integer plane point coordinates - Recompute vertices after every change to brush geometry - Major lines of the grid are rendered thicker - Read write protected map files - Don't crash when trying to save a write protected file - Internal Worldspawn properties set to read only - Fix 3D view focus issues on Windows - Drop invalid brushes in parser instead of crashing - Always autosave (don't wait until the map is changed) - Keep more autosaves and save only every 10 minutes - Don't show rotation decorators for invisible entities - Documentation updates and fixes Download here: http://goo.gl/0eL9u 1.0.6 is looking good so far, but, is anyone else having a problem with the Face browser not showing any textures? I loaded same map as before--which worked before--and I can't see any textures in Face panel. Says "n/a" for preview image too.
1.0.5 shows the textures in Face browser. Yeah I see the same thing. Odd that none of the testers saw that - or maybe it creeped in last minute. Will fix asap. Sorry.
Very nice so far. The text is much clearer on my desktop box (with nVidia GTS450 card) in the textures browser, and the all text works on my laptop now(with Intel Graphics 3000), and very crisp/smooth/clear.
Weird it opens the other maps but not start.map. I tried shutting down background processes to make sure it wasn't lingering around somewhere in an old editor.
Focus on the 3D view, and hold ALT and Right-click drag your mouse to look around with the camera, and eventually you see the brushes show up.
I'm able to open start.map with 1.07. VoreGoddess, what does the console say in TrenchBroom? Any errors? Does editor crash? You can ignore the gfx/start.wad error message. But I'm at the vinegar-strokes stage of this map now so I'll probably try it afterwards.
"Sometimes Maps Open With Camera Pointing Away From The Geometry."
If that's the case, a common practice in other editors is to drop the camera at the info_playerstart position so that the camera is outside the map, pointing at it, and zoomed out so far that the entire map is visible in the 3D view.
seems to be acting weird in version 1.07... every time I try and hover over the grabby-thing (dunno what they're called) they disappear, and when I move my cursor away they reappear. It's like the editor is trolling me!
also I really dislike the "major grid lines" always showing, I find them really distracting plus it makes using smaller grids unusable IMO.
Just want to say that for any feature that is requested to be removed, or hinted towards the idea of being removed, that I'd like to recommend that it not be completely removed, but rather add it as an option in Preferences that can be enabled/disabled.
I realize that this may sound like a redundant statement. But, I've never said it before, and just wanted to say it now. Now that I have, I'll never say it again. I've not played with 1.07 yet, because been busy catching up certain things in life. But, I'm sure I will have a use for the 'major grid lines' feature, once I find time to start mapping again. however I think having really thick distracting grid lines that don't scale down with smaller grid sizes is a hindrance. Besides, I made a map perfectly fine without this feature, I can't think of an instance where I would have needed it.
Is it possible that when you make a brush entity and you decide to change it from one type to another that it retains all the values and keys if possible?
Sorry dude I keep forgetting (mostly because I haven't bookmarked it)... I'll try to remember in future. (I see you've already posted them there?)
I'm just saying, don't remove a feature simply because 1 person cries about it; regardless that he/she was able to map without it.
I want the major gridlines, therefore leave the feature intact and put an option for it in the Preferences to disable it. There's a reason this feature exists, and a reason it exists in other 3D programs as well. So, don't remove it just because 1 person cries about it. Thanks. I'm not crying about it, I gave valid reasons as to why I thought it wasn't necessary to have them. Can you stop being a prima donna? Thanks.
You can try this: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7009168/TrenchBroom.tar.gz
It was built on Ubuntu 12.04 32bit. You can unpack it to /opt so that the executable is at /opt/TrenchBroom/TrenchBroom. You can then just copy the If you don't put it into /opt, you'll need to adapt the paths in the desktop file. Let me know if it works! TB uses the ALT key for some things such as moving objects vertically. This collides with some window managers, and you might have to disable the ALT key for your window manager. I have rebound it to the windows key on my machine. See this for Ubuntu: http://askubuntu.com/questions/80623/how-to-disable-altclick-from-moving-windows-in-unity-2d
Thanks, I will try this tomorrow.
By the way, I found the difference between Hexen 2 and Quake The But what does the extra face attribute mean? No one seems to know. Also, can you say what the differences in the mdl format are?
The qbsp code refers to it as 'Light'. It copies it around, but doesn't actually do anything with it. I assume they were going to use it for radiance but never actually did, So writing out a dummy value of -1 should be fine.
The mission pack uses a different mdl format, but the core game merely uses q1mdl with additional flags (stick to the 'data1' directory and avoid 'portals' and you should be fine)... But what does the extra face attribute mean? No one seems to know.
Look at the bsp5.h and map.h headers of hexen2 utils: it is Light. face_t struct has Light as its last member as a 32 bit integer. mbrush_t struct has Light as a 32 bit integer as its last member. So it's unused?
Right, not used in the end. When the face structure is translated from map to compiled bsp, it is not used, because the dface_t structure (bspfile.h) is the same between q1 and h2. However, an h2 map must have that token in order to be parsed correctly and compiled. - Fix the rotation tool
- Allow snapping faces to the grid when resizing brushes - Improved major grid line shading (rebb) - Fixed umlauts in About dialog Downloads: http://goo.gl/0eL9u May be coming soonish btw. Meeting up with my friend on Thursday to do a few test runs (and hopefully to properly film some stuff)...
is still acting a little weird, upon selecting entities the rotation tool seems to centre on the last brush that was selected rather than the entity itself. It's better than before of course, but not as good as the original implementation.
You need to find a place to mirror this thing, 19kb/s download speed is a little too "nostalgic" for my tastes. ;)
The binary produces the following error on my Ubuntu 12.04 32 bit:
jonas@gjallarbru:/opt/TrenchBroom$ (TrenchBroom:28246): Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_window_resize: assertion `width > 0' failed Segmentfejl I have wxwindows 2.8.12. There is something about this error in the wxwidgets forum here: http://forums.wxwidgets.org/viewtopic.php?t=29948&p=128726 I'm almost curious enough to compile it myself now. :-s I compiled my own debug binary of TB now. Same error.
Some thoughts: Why does the Linux Build.txt instruct us to compile our own version of WxWidgets (twice)? Also, and I found this interesting -- have you ever tried running Linux TB through Valgrind? The output is remarkable. I have seen that error before, but mostly on virtual machines. It is related to a hidden window that I use to set up some shared resources for the renderer(s). What card / driver are you using?
TrenchBroom requires wxWidgets 2.9.4. 2.8 doesn't work. Since there's no official package repository yet for 2.9.4, you need to compile it yourself. I haven't rund TB through Valgrind because I didn't want to drown in a sea of false positives. TB uses a custom allocator for many classes that speeds up memory allocation a lot, but this leads to false positives. I know from inspecting that TB doesn't have big memory leaks. In fact, I couldn't find a single leak in the current build. that it doesn't have leaks. I'm sure it does - just no biggies as far as I can say. I'll run it through VG anyway.
Also, "the output is remarkable" - how you just tell me what you see instead of making me guess ;-) I just ran the standard test - mainly because I wanted to see if it came up with more info about the error message. I was a bit amazed at the sheer amount of output and the final error count it reported. If you say most of that is false positives, I'll take your word for it but it looked pretty crass.
The wxwidgets compile is pretty lengthy and, especially since we're instructed to do it twice, acts as a bit of a hurdle if someone just wants to try the editor. 2.8.12 is reported to be the official stable version so I wondered if using the dev version is strictly necessary. Apparently it is. I use a Geforce 6 series card with Nvidia blob 304.64. What's the "standard test"? Valgrind typically reports lots and lots of problems. If it was a memory leak test, there will be many false positives, yeah. If it was a cache grind test, then it will moan a lot too because TB's codebase is not optimized for such things (it's just not necessary).
TB requires wxWidgets 2.9 because that has much better support for Mac OS X. I'll see what I can do about the error message. The current build runs on my machine, which also has an NVidia card (it's a MacBook Pro). I'm also running Ubuntu 12.04 with the "version current" NVidia driver. How do I find out which version of the driver I am running?
In the Nvidia control panel, accessible from the systems submenu (not sure what it is in English), you can find your driver version. I got mine from the Nvidia site, after something necessitated a driver upgrade, instead of it being the default-provided Ubuntu driver.
I simply ran valgrind Granted, a lot of it probably is from wxwidgets or GTK, too. has nothing to do with what Valgrind is reporting. I have looked at it, and most of the errors are within the libraries. It reports quite a bit of errors related to uninitialized variables, but these are usually due to how OpenGL works:
GLint textureId; glGenTextures(&textureId, 1); Valgrind will moan about this, but it's not actually in error. It's an easy fix to shut VG up, though: GLint textureId = 0; glGenTextures(&textureId, 1); In any case - Valgrind won't help you finding the problem that you're seeing. That's not really a programming error but a flaw in how I set up the OpenGL context. I'll have to find a different way. LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT=1
should remove all false positives associated with opengl dma use. which should actually make valgrind usable with such programs. just finished up recording the first in a series of TB tutorial videos (yes, you get to hear my basso gravelly northern english accent)... They're not properly finished yet (needs a bunch of tweaks etc) but suffice to say me and my friend had fun making them and definitely want to continue making them.
These are starting off at the lowest-entry point, intermediate and advanced mappers need not apply, literally the first vid is about installing quake, getting wads, downloading software etc and then working up to "my first room". I'm not as north as you are, I'll give you one clue though...
"garlic bread is the future, I've tasted it!" Can you try running TB from code blocks in the debugger? Strangely, it works for me that way on my VM.
I have no idea how to do that, I'm not familiar with Codeblocks at all (nor with other IDEs, I use vim).
Please update the sources and recompile, then run the editor (not from the IDE). It may fail on the first try, but it should work the second time. I have no idea why this is happening, but at least it now works on my VM and my MacBook Pro in Ubuntu 12.04.
I did that. After that suggestion, I got it running on the third try. I experimented with this some more, and it seems to be random if it runs or crashes. But when I try enough times, I can get it to run.
It seems to crash when I press "V". This can be reproduced; this is the message: (TrenchBroom:16513): Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_window_resize: assertion `width > 0' failed TrenchBroom: /home/jonas/TrenchBroom/Source/Renderer/Shader/ShaderProgram.cpp:155: bool TrenchBroom::Renderer::ShaderProgram::setUniformVariable(const String&, const TrenchBroom::Math::Vec3f&): Assertion `checkActive()' failed. Afbrudt (SIGABRT) Under "View -> Grid" I can select all grid sizes with the mouse at the same time (so they are all shown as toggled on with a hook in front). When I click on "Snap to Grid", the 1 unit grid is displayed no matter what grid size I have selected. Is there a key combo to snap a brush to the currently selected grid size? Shift-Ctrl-G doesn't do it and I can find nothing else in the Preferences. Movement with WASD is jerky, there is a delay between button press and reaction and sometimes a stuttering effect to it. Rotating the camera stutters also. It won't accept multiple button inputs (eg W and A) at the same time (does nothing in such a case). I've tried all the different OpenGL Instancing settings. Those are my initial findings, I'll give it some more time. The vertex mode crash is usually fixed by setting the Instancing mode to "Force off" in the preferences. If that doesn't work for you, I'll have to investigate some more. Could you paste the stack trace for the crash at pastebin or something? The lines get truncated.
Movement is not implemented like in game ATM - there is no "fly through" mode yet. Pressing "A" actually just invokes the menu item for "Move Camera Forward", that's why you can't press multiple keys at once. There is no command to snap a brush to grid size, "Snap to grid" toggles grid snapping. Rotation should be smooth - are you running a release or a debug build? Awesome, setting instancing to "force off" seems to prevent the crash indeed. So far, so good.
I was running a debug build. I'll try a release build. I intend to also try this under Windows, so that I can form an opinion with the various bugs out of the picture. I see about the movement. At least I see an editor now, thanks for bearing with me. The current build has serious problems with the menu on Linux. Menu items don't get disabled when they should (such as the Copy item when nothing is selected), leading to crashes when such menu items are invoked.
I'm trying to fix it, but I can't for the life of me find the cause. wxGTK behaves very differently from the other platforms. The current Windows version is much more stable. for the pastebin. Note that TB writes a log file at ~/TrenchBroom.log - could you try and find the lines it printed just before it crashed? I suspect that the problem comes from the driver not being able to compile a shader.
It's actually a bug in Ubuntu: http://trac.wxwidgets.org/ticket/14302 Man, I hate this sometimes.
Some more observations:
1. "Open recent" seems to do nothing. 2. Clicking "TrenchBroom Help" opens Firefox, but not the correct website. Some problems I have while trying to quickly block out a room-and-corridor map: 1. Drawing new brushes with the mouse makes them appear "somewhere in space". I can't help but find Radiant's behaviour more intelligent, which is to make the newly created brush the same height as the previously selected one and place it on the same ground plane. 2. Having to press Alt (and everything that interferes with it on a Linux desktop) to be able to scale a brush in the Z direction. Again, Radiant allows you to resize brushes in all directions (in the 3D viewport) without any keypresses; the axis it chooses depends on your position relative to the brush and the mouse placement/movement. This seems quicker and more intuitive in Radiant. 3. I would appreciate (if a real 2D viewport is such a big no-no) to have at least an ortographic view toggle and keyboard shortcuts for top/side/front view like it is handled, for instance, in Blender. Example: When you press numpad 1 in Blender while in ortho view, you get a front view and the grid appears perpendicular to the camera. This (like the 2D view in other map editors) is helpful to check your mesh/brushes at a glance. 4. Movement through space is more intuitive in Radiant, because it is identical to the way you move ingame (with noclip). In this way, you don't need a camera orbit mode in Radiant, because you can practically circle-strafe around the object you want to examine. You can't beat WASD flythrough mode. 5. It is (in my opinion) easier to create a brush angled at exactly 45 degrees (or similar) in a 2D viewport, because that allows you to count the grid intersections to the side and to the top to arrive at the exact angle you want. In TrenchBroom, the grid is drawn on the brush itself; while you can do the counting, it is harder to do in TrenchBroom. This is another case where an orthographic top view with a grid shown in the entire viewport would really help. Note that while I could use a "helper brush" to allow me to do the counting, I'm one of those people who prefer to block out the walls first, not the floors. 6. I would appreciate a keyboard shortcut for "snap all selected brushes to the current grid" identical to Ctrl-G in Radiant. I just like to make damn sure that stuff is on grid. Most of these problems relate to quick blocking out of buildings. I'll gladly believe that triangle terrain is easier to do in Trenchbroom, and that vertex editing is more comfortable (you pretty much have to use the clipper in Radiant to get the shape you want), but for blocking out angular geometry I find myself wanting to use Radiant. I'll keep trying TB, though. 1. "Open recent" seems to do nothing.
This is already fixed, but I haven't pushed the changes yet. 2. Clicking "TrenchBroom Help" opens Firefox, but not the correct website. I'll look into it. Where is TB installed on your system? What permissions are set for the Resources directory? 1. Drawing new brushes with the mouse makes them appear "somewhere in space". I can't help but find Radiant's behaviour more intelligent, which is to make the newly created brush the same height as the previously selected one and place it on the same ground plane. Brushes only appear "somewhere" if you don't start drawing them on some other surface. Once you have a couple brushes laid down, this becomes rather intuitive IMO. 2. Having to press Alt (and everything that interferes with it on a Linux desktop) to be able to scale a brush in the Z direction. Again, Radiant allows you to resize brushes in all directions (in the 3D viewport) without any keypresses; the axis it chooses depends on your position relative to the brush and the mouse placement/movement. This seems quicker and more intuitive in Radiant. You can resize in any direction in TB by holding shift. Alt is only for moving things in the Z direction. I'm staying away from any kind of functionality that depends on the camera direction / position for all operations (exception resizing where it's implicit). 3. I would appreciate (if a real 2D viewport is such a big no-no) to have at least an ortographic view toggle and keyboard shortcuts for top/side/front view like it is handled, for instance, in Blender. Example: When you press numpad 1 in Blender while in ortho view, you get a front view and the grid appears perpendicular to the camera. This (like the 2D view in other map editors) is helpful to check your mesh/brushes at a glance. Yeah, we've had this discussion already, and the gist if it is "no" ;-). What you're suggesting is basically a poor substitute for a 2D view. If you can't live without 2D views, this editor is not for you. That said, there seem to be plenty of people who, after getting used to how TB operates, don't mind the lack of 2D views. 4. Movement through space is more intuitive in Radiant, because it is identical to the way you move ingame (with noclip). In this way, you don't need a camera orbit mode in Radiant, because you can practically circle-strafe around the object you want to examine. You can't beat WASD flythrough mode. I'm already working on a fly through mode which will also allow you to do editing much like how it works in the Sauerbraten editor. 5. It is (in my opinion) easier to create a brush angled at exactly 45 degrees (or similar) in a 2D viewport, because that allows you to count the grid intersections to the side and to the top to arrive at the exact angle you want. In TrenchBroom, the grid is drawn on the brush itself; while you can do the counting, it is harder to do in TrenchBroom. This is another case where an orthographic top view with a grid shown in the entire viewport would really help. Note that while I could use a "helper brush" to allow me to do the counting, I'm one of those people who prefer to block out the walls first, not the floors. A positionable 3D grid is already planned for the next version. It will help in such situations. 6. I would appreciate a keyboard shortcut for "snap all selected brushes to the current grid" identical to Ctrl-G in Radiant. I just like to make damn sure that stuff is on grid. What do you mean by "snap all selected brushes" - snap their vertices? Most of these problems relate to quick blocking out of buildings. I'll gladly believe that triangle terrain is easier to do in Trenchbroom, and that vertex editing is more comfortable (you pretty much have to use the clipper in Radiant to get the shape you want), but for blocking out angular geometry I find myself wanting to use Radiant. Yup, TB is weak in that department. I'm trying to address this with the positionable 3D grid and other features. Thanks for your feedback! What do you mean by "snap all selected brushes" - snap their vertices?
Yep, snap them so all their vertices are on the currently selected grid. Brushes only appear "somewhere" if you don't start drawing them on some other surface. Once you have a couple brushes laid down, this becomes rather intuitive IMO. I noticed that the plane they appear on seems to be influenced by where you click on adjacent brushes, but I haven't managed to draw a new brush on the same ground plane as an adjacent brush. More observations... 7. A shortcut to rotate any object by 90 degrees around the Z axis would be nice for e.g. monster placement. It is just faster than using an arbitrary rotation tool. 8. Rotating a brush horizontally to some arbitrary angle, then rotating it back (with snap to grid turned on) makes the brush go off grid with some coordinates now being floating point numbers. Thus it is pretty easy to create off-grid geometry, and that's where a "snap to grid" button would be useful. 9. Setting the angle of a func_door could be more comfortable if it was displayed in the 3D view. 10. Creating a key on an entity requires mouse clicking on the "Value" field after entering the key name; it would be faster to automatically move the cursor into the Value field after pressing Enter. Because as it is now, it requires you to reach for the mouse in between. 11. Creating a hollow box is harder in this 3D view than it is in a (Radiant) 2D viewport. I'm not talking about CSG Make Hollow, just building a box by hand. I like to box my maps during development, and I box large outdoor areas as well (put the pitchforks away, I know what I'm doing). I'm just saying it is hard to create a simple hollow box made from 6 brushes around the entire map with the 6 sides perfectly fitting, because drawing brushes (and navigating around the map, too) is klunky right now. 12. I find myself wanting to increase the movement speed of the WASD keys. 13. It would be good to have a method of axis-aligned movement; ie restrict moving a brush to the X or Y axis as well as the Z axis. Use case: Still trying to make a non-leaking large box. Anyway, I'll quit for tonight. I appreciate the idea of making a 3D-only editor, but IMHO this dogma introduces a couple of its own problems that would be very easily solved by such terrible things like a switchable 2D viewport or even a gizmo. It seems extremist to see the 3D viewport as the only good way to map. It's not like I depend on the 2D viewports in a big way; I mainly use the 3D viewport in Radiant as well, which is definitely possible. I just think that for certain specific uses, a 2D view is very hard to beat. More power to you, of course, it is your editor after all. I used this on my speedmap, getting all kinds of crazy problems when I try to compile it. Is using this more or less prone to microleaks? It seems I can't use snap vertices and snap to grid to fix these problems.
Map is here if you're interested - http://depositfiles.com/files/sgiknj9nk compiled with treeq (tyr's wont let me compile beyond the bsp stage for some reason) I sent an email with that map. Loaded into Hammer and again the bad brushes could not be loaded. After I plugged the holes no leaks.
I added func_detail the map layout was a vis killer. Link below works to compile. I have found it to create bad pointfiles but everything else seems to work. http://disenchant.net/files/utils/snapshot/tyrutils-0.7-42-gbb02e6d-win32.zip Maybe you could use Hammer to filter out bad brushes. Trenchbroom's rules for bad brushes seem loose. 7. A shortcut to rotate any object by 90 degrees around the Z axis would be nice for e.g. monster placement. It is just faster than using an arbitrary rotation tool.
Look at Edit > Actions when brushes or entities are selected. 8. Rotating a brush horizontally to some arbitrary angle, then rotating it back (with snap to grid turned on) makes the brush go off grid with some coordinates now being floating point numbers. Thus it is pretty easy to create off-grid geometry, and that's where a "snap to grid" button would be useful. That's pretty much unavoidable, but you can of course always use undo. 9. Setting the angle of a func_door could be more comfortable if it was displayed in the 3D view. I agree that the angle indicators are flimsy right now. I'll improve their visibility. 10. Creating a key on an entity requires mouse clicking on the "Value" field after entering the key name; it would be faster to automatically move the cursor into the Value field after pressing Enter. Because as it is now, it requires you to reach for the mouse in between.</a> Can't do it right now due to a limitation in wxWidgets, but it will be fixed as soon as wxWidgets 2.9.5 is released. Although I think you can move to the next field with TAB right now. 13. It would be good to have a method of axis-aligned movement; ie restrict moving a brush to the X or Y axis as well as the Z axis. Use case: Still trying to make a non-leaking large box. Also being worked on. I appreciate the idea of making a 3D-only editor, but IMHO this dogma introduces a couple of its own problems that would be very easily solved by such terrible things like a switchable 2D viewport or even a gizmo. It seems extremist to see the 3D viewport as the only good way to map. It's not like I depend on the 2D viewports in a big way; I mainly use the 3D viewport in Radiant as well, which is definitely possible. I just think that for certain specific uses, a 2D view is very hard to beat. I agree with that. The reason why I'm trying avoid 2D views is that I want to find out how far I can push the 3D only approach. If it turns out that, even with things like a moveable grid, it is not possible to do certain tasks comfortably at all, then I'll reconsider 2D views. The bad pointfiles are the reason why I'm resorting to using TreeQ, the only problem with that is I am playing a lottery game with brushes. I'm trying to avoid using Hammer if possible. I think maybe was that I had used the "force plane integers" on this map which really I only need vertex integers (probably).
As for it being a vis killer, I think this is going to be my curse as I used to make very open/large Unreal maps. Also I didn't really plan it properly because it's a speedmap. I think I will probably avoid terrain for speedmaps in the future.. The option to use integer plane points mostly exists for backward compatibility with older compilers. It will not avoid problems with brushes and might even produce more microleaks.
You need to get a feeling for what brush shapes are "safe" and what aren't. I haven't looked at the map you posted above, but here are some general rules: - fewer faces on a brush are better - very big and very small brushes can cause problems - integer vertex coordinates can help, but cannot always be guaranteed due to rounding errors or lack of precision when integer vertex coordinates are enabled Everyone feel free to add to that list. I used the speedmap to experiment with something that I haven't used yet. I think this backs up my thoughts quite well though, and it's clear to me that the compilers and the editors aren't really designed to do the things I want to do with terrain.
I have a few more experiments to do with terrain but I doubt they'll be as nice as what I've tried to do so far. Keep in mind how old Quake is. If you want to get crazy, maybe make maps for something more modern. Doing crazy crap in Quake is a challenge for people rather than the preferred platform. :)
While I do encourage experimentation, I suggest you stick with trisoup or even prisms. The fewer vertices a face has, the better. The fewer faces a brush has, the better - ergo prisms are optimal.
has the brush geometry always need to have some thickness?
I.e like not using two edges to seal the map from void (and avoid bsp holes)? Not getting it... Yeah my next attempt at terrain will be some kind of trisoup/prism thing, but the work involved for this is hefty (and unlike cubes it's not as good for sealing off back faces). I really can't wait until you implement a floor lofter style tool, or have some kind of easy way of grouping brushes together for manipulation (or have a layer system).
It's still early days yet and I guess I'm still learning. What do you mean by that?
mfx: Ask me on wednesday when we have some paper in front of us ;-) or Worldcraft. You can make "layers", just throw brushes into the layer and you make them visible or invisible. I thought this was a feature you may look at adding some time down the line. It's probably more useful if you have 2d views though.
I've been using TyrUtils and Txqbsp.exe as a work around if I need to find a leak. I can't see the point of mapping without func_detail now.
TB can make some really wild brushes to the point that it's hard to tell if there valid. Simple is better. Make a few simple brushes instead of one complex monster. An option is create the complex brush and fill it in with simple ones to make the same shape then delete the complex one. You can also make up prefab brush groups. As long as there good and on grid you can mash them up to create varied terrain. IMO creating valid error free terrain has been the hardest thing to learn in Quake editing. Well, getting proper vis blocking is tricky as well - lots of maps are made without any at all and have infinite vis times. Detail brushes should help this some as well now though. But for the want of a few dogleg corridors or a doughnut, we've probably not seen many maps that the author(s) gave up on.
Sleepwalker, I'm going to start using trenchbroom exclusively now, so should be able to provide some more valid contributions in the coming weeks :) Sent you an invite, but I deleted all old betas just now, so the folder is empty ;-). I'll upload a new build later.
Sorry about not posting to the proper location.
If I use the texture named 1999 I get "Malformed map file: expected token of type string, but found integer number at line 1249, column 67" Where's that writ? There is another bug in TB's map parser concerning texture names beginning with a curly brace. I could fix this one too while I'm at it, but only if all-digit texture names are valid. Someone should check the Quake source.
Is used by Remake Quake for "fence textures" (alpha masked where palette index 255 is transparent), just like Half-Life.
But I would like to have a word with whoever had the idea to use a curly brace in the texture name.
they chose on the curly brace, I mean they could have just used a key of "mask" like they did with alpha surely?
I have a nice idea for alpha masks for another map, I think they're all going to be speedmaps from now on btw (since I'm not longer unemployed)... saying that I'm trying to get my sp map sorted before monday, I have actually added a lot of extra stuff so if you downloaded the mp version of deck it will be worth downloading the sp ;) I'm actually looking forward to seeing "Deck" in SP. I don't "Do" MP so seeing how you envisioning it to play out will be interesting.
Maybe will see if I can get it to run in June. To and kid will be out of town for a week s will have time to dork out like in ye olde days.
Any chance you might be adding a gui particle editor for Darkplaces into Trenchbroom?
http://www.quakewiki.net/darkplaces-wiki/effectinfo-scripting-reference/ http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-help/quake-clients/8336-tut-add-particle-effects-models-sounds-into-quake-via-ent-files-darkplaces.html Just create a feature request at the bug tracker, but the chances that it'll happen soon are pretty slim.
I'dd rather see engine maintainers settle on a universal and highly modular particle system. The DP one is useful but relatively fixed function.
I'd rather see the editor stay focused on vanilla aspects, first and foremost, and/or perhaps only.
I agree with first and foremost. Non vanilla would be nice, as long as it's integrated non-intrusive. Maybe a plugin API could fill those gaps at some point? Long term speculation...
Multiple game support will be in the editor. Particle system is unlikely, sorry. Plugin API is an interesting idea and may happen at some point if there is (serious) interest in writing plugins.
Is it just me, or is the editor still not listing the keys that can be added to the entity you're editing?
For example, editing a Light, in the Entity panel , there is no list of keys that can be added, such as "light" for example. Also, a description of the key, such as "light: The value of light. Default (300)" like I've seen in other editors. I couldn't edit my post afterwards.
No problem that the feature isn't there yet. What I meant was, the tone in my post was because I thought it was added already; I was sure I heard you say it was done. So, I thought I was experiencing a bug. No worries though. Take your time. it's been known a long time what the default light value is.
It would be nice to have these displayed in the editor but let's be honest anyone mapping now will probably know many of the entity keys and values. TB is an oddity because work flow is cut massively by the way you create and edit brushes but adds extra time by not having the entities fully explained (like in Worldcraft for example). In it's current iteration I find myself very comfortable using TB and never wanting to revert back to WC, despite my needing to often look up keys and values for the various entities. It's on my todo list, but as I said - time is limited. I'll push this for the 1.1 version though.
It would be nice to have these displayed in the editor but let's be honest anyone mapping now will probably know many of the entity keys and values.
I think having the default keys displayed would be a good idea though, Especially because Trenchbroom seems to be attracting a lot of new mappers who don't know the keys by heart. More experienced mappers can change out the default values for their own ones in the fgd/def files depending on what map they're making. I doubt most mappers, after experimenting with lights, won't have their own values that they prefer to the default 200 blob style.
But that's a minor bonus when looking at the entire user base. Just having these automatically generated will save users mouse clicks and key taps. And that makes the software more efficient to use. I have been trying to use Trenchbroom, yet I have run into a serious issue. I have pointed the application to my Quake directory, and loaded the quake fgd, yet it won't load any textures into the program. It loads the Entities just fine. I have tried pointing Trenchbroom to several different installs of quake, including a vanilla quake install, Darkplaces, etc. Each time it finds entities, but can't find textures. please advise.
To load a separate
See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnEnn61GRR0
You can download The window opens for about a second. I can see it trying to load stuff, then it just shuts down with no error message or anything.
Log file just ends abruptly. 4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Renderer info: GeForce 7800 GS/AGP/SSE2/3DNOW! version 2.1.2 from NVIDIA Corporation 4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Depth buffer bits: 16 4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Multisampling disabled 4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: OpenGL instancing disabled 4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Loading entity definition file C:\Trenchbroom\Resources\Defs\Quake.fgd 4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Loading 'progs/player.mdl' (searching ) 4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Unable to find MDL 'progs/player.mdl' (etc, etc....) 4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Loading 'progs/g_shot.mdl' (searching ) 4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Unable to find MDL 'progs/g_shot.mdl' 4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Created Face Shader Program 4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Created Face.vertsh 4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Created Face.fragsh 4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Unable to link Face Shader Program, linker output was: and that's where it ends. What version are you using?
What operating system are you using? If you're on Windows, did you install "Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 Redistributable Package" http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=5555 ? Trenchboom is 1.09.224
Windows XP SP3 fully updated VC++ x86 redistributable 10.0.30319 is installed Computer is an old Athlon 64 3400+ (nVidia chipset) I guess I could try on another computer, but this is the one I do all my dev type work on. What is the GL driver version? It looks like the driver is failing to compile / link the shaders, which may or may not be a driver bug.
The video driver is really old (2007). I never mess with it because I updated it once and had a lot of problems, so I went back to the old one and have never had any problems since.
That was so long ago that I don't actually remember what the problems were, only that I made a mental note to never screw around with the video driver again. Maybe a new driver wouldn't have the problems. I didn't ask about video card drivers, because I thought it was obvious and common sense by now that people update their video card drivers. You see the message everywhere now a days.
Sorry about that. The Face shader which is failing on your system is quite complex and might therefore cause these problems. However eithout an error message I have nothing to go on to fix it. If you're willing, We could try to pinpoint the problem by removing functionality though. Write me at kristian.duske@gmail.com if you want to try this.
Loving this so far. :) My biggest gripe is that I don't know all the Quake entity key/values and Trenchboom doesn't list them (either in the documentation or in the Entity tab). Seems pretty hard to find that info on the net too. :) I ended up opening up GTKRadiant, placing entities and seeing what it's descriptions say. Any chance of having better entity descriptions/more options in the Entity Properties Tab?
That feature is coming, but the author of Trenchbroom is on vacation right now.
But, if you can find 100 people to start using TrenchBroom, and get 100 websites to start praising TrenchBroom, then I think the author will come home early from vacation and implement that feature ASAP. ;) Google quake map specs and also google worldcraft guide. Both are what I use for mapping. Or alternatively download my map q-deck because it was made entirely in trench and I included the source :)
Quake map specs -
http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quake/QDP/qmapspec.html Quake standard entities - http://www.quakewiki.net/archives/worldcraft/entity/standard/standard.shtm My map - http://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/fesp1.html just open the
I just found that out later today. I was looking to see if I could add that info to the
In the map properties option, the 'Select a subdirectory' spot there are no options.
I feel like this is a very simple thing to fix but I'm blind. I like it!
some crashes on win32 though. *when i click on the titlebar symbol (accidentaly) *clipper sometimes if you get any errors, it helps to track them if you submit them on github:
https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues?direction=desc&sort=updated&state=open There's much improved version that I still haven't finished. If you would like to try it out, send me an email at kristian.duske@gmail.com.
@necros I'll report the errors :)
Anyway those are not really showstoppers and It is a joy to work with trenchbroom ;) @SleepwalkR Thanks :)you got mail I only wish I'd seen this thread five months ago.
At first I was frustrated because it doesn't work like radiant, but after a few sesssions I'm getting into the paradigm of TB a little better. I found a funny bug, not a showstopper but it did cause me to lose a few minutes' work: Open a new map, make a few random brushes, but don't save the map. Quit Trenchbroom - a dialog box will come up asking me if I want to save changes to unnamed1 - only problem is, nothing happens when I click any of the dialog box options of "cancel," "no," or "yes." So I am just stuck there and have to force quit the process. After reading the whole thread, it sounds like this could be a bug in the backend stuff (wxwidgets, gtk?) rather than TB itself. Early 08 Macbook Pro with 8600M, OS X 10.6.8. I just wanted to let everyone know what's going on with TB lately and why there haven't been any updates for a while.
The currently released version is written in C++ and based on wxWidgets, a cross-platform GUI toolkit. I have written this version in quite a hurry without knowing either C++ or wxWidgets too well, and unfortunately it shows. There are all kinds of hacks and shortcuts in the code that make it hard to maintain. The worst effect of this is that whenever I touch something to add a new feature or fix a bug, I often get new bugs and problems. This is the case with the current codebase of the next release (TB 1.1), which doesn't work properly on Windows (can't use arrow keys) and has a lot of problems on Linux as well. I would like to fix the Windows bugs and release this version, but it has been quite difficult to track them down, so it might take a while (or not happen at all - read on). At the same time I have started over completely from scratch. This new codebase is much better structured and easier to maintain. It will become TB 2.0 and it will have (almost) all of the features of the current 1.1 codebase. On top of that it will support multiple games (probably Hexen2 and Quake2 out of the box, with Quake3 and Half Life support coming later). Also, I'm making sure that this version will work fine on all three major platforms from that start. This version is coming along well, but it will be several months until it's ready for release. So, as you can see, I have been silently working on TB, but I can't say when the next release is going to happen, or what it will entail. I'll try to get the 1.1. release out of the door so that you can keep using TB until 2.0 is ready, but I can't promise anything. You need any more people to test on linux?
I eventually got TB working on my laptop some time ago, but various bugs and incompatibilities with my particular ageing machine made it a bit of a chore to use tbh. I'm using my desktop a bit more often now though. Out of curiosity, what is your main/favourite programming language? You said you don't know C++ that well, but you managed to write a Quake editor :) Until three years ago, I mostly used Java. Then I switched to Objective-C to write TB, and about 1.5 years ago I started learning C++ in order to make TB portable to other platforms. C++ is however quite different from purely OO languages like Objective-C and Java because it has meta programming facilities. Because of that and the manual memory management it requires, I find C++ quite difficult to learn. I guess TB 1 was my testbed, and now that I know a bit more about the language, I hope that TB 2 will be better.
Thanks for the update... just one request: Instead of targeting other more or less dead games, how about support for Xonotic, Warsow etc.?
you are free to add support for these games, or find someone who will ;-)
and id-based
A neat feature would be to use GTKRadiant game info in TB to support games. But, glad to hear you're still plugging away at it! Looking forward to TB 2.0! appreciated you aren't in the place to be implementing insignificant little suggestions at the moment with the rebuild going on. but here's one anyway (feel free to shoot it down if it's just me being really lazy)
it would be nice if the clip tool remembered the most recent previously used 'mode'. case in point, if you use it to split a brush in two without deleting anything, with this functionality you wouldn't need to tab twice each time you wanted to repeat the operation. normally when i use the split function i use it multiple times in succession (eg. for cutting up a floor in order to lower part of it) This would be handy. Small time savers like this can add up to big ones, especially with something as fundamental as clipping.
just making sure it wasn't a completely retarded idea first. wouldn't want to clog the tracker up otherwise!
It's not really a bug, though. It sometimes happens when there are intersecting transparent polys.
i meant how transparent brushes aren't actually transparent, but selected brushes have their faces drawn and models are always visible through them.
http://mobile.sheridanc.on.ca/~jonescor/temp/unselected.jpg
liquids occluding unselected brush http://mobile.sheridanc.on.ca/~jonescor/temp/selected.jpg selected brush's faces being drawn through liquid brushes. http://mobile.sheridanc.on.ca/~jonescor/temp/model1.jpg model is always drawn over liquids http://mobile.sheridanc.on.ca/~jonescor/temp/model2.jpg even though it is behind them in many cases. There when i need to isolate stuff i'm using the view options - with models for example.
In other cases, like multiple water brushes fighting with each other, it can get confusing quickly. It is bad draw order, and I don't really know how to fix it. I'll have to think about it. Can you please submit a bug report?
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/12/5bm9.jpg/
You can see that I have the same entity and a brush selected, it all looks like I'd expect it to. ATI 3850, Catylist 13.4, Win XP-32. Didn't happen in the 12.x driver series either. necros, I'll look into it, and if you are saying that you're spending a bit more time with the editor now, that would make me quite happy ;-)
Happy Friar, I don't think the problem depends on the graphics adapter. It's just that sometimes the faces will be sorted correctly and sometimes they won't. It depends on where the camera is and where you're looking. That said, I could be wrong and maybe I have broken something. doesn't look random to me. i've never seen it work. :)
however, even though it is being drawn in the right order for happy friar, the brushes are not actually transparent in his screenshot either. I thought if you use Lava (water, etc) it automatically applies a transparency flag. I tried it again with a sky/water on top and water/pentagram on bottom, still never shows through.
Version 1.0.9, build 224. Didn't have a new one last I checked. Nothing newer on the TB website. on my brand new Surface Pro. No idea why, I click the icon and it simply doesn't load. No error messages or anything.
But I can't really do much about it right now. Last time I checked it ran fine in Windows 8.
Does this have any dependencies on other things I should know of (like
I need to get this to work because it's likely going to be my main way of working for a while. See here for requirements: http://www.kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/downloads.php
The TB builds I'm publishing are 32 bit. 64bit builds should not be a problem. Can you test whether the SF Pro runs 32bit binaries?
Well it runs everything I have used so far, including a really old copy of Paintshop Pro that I have installed on every box I have ever owned since 1997. ;)
The surface also is only compatible with DirectQ from all the quake engines I have tried. (literally, something to do with the touchscreen messing up the controls in other engines) So I decided to download a dependancy scanner to see if I am missing something.
http://www.techradar.com/news/software/applications/program-won-t-open-try-this-free-download-707381 According to the program Dependancy Walker the editor is trying to run something called IESHIMS.DLL... "Warning: At least one delay-load dependency module was not found.
Warning: At least one module has an unresolved import due to a missing export function in a delay-load dependent module." Had a look to see which things are highlighted and they are - SHLWAPI.DLL API-MS-WIN-CORE-SYNCH-L1-1-0.DLL SHCORE.DLL IEFRAME.DLL But I don't suppose that would help you massively. Weirdly, I have found IESHIMS.DLL and I can't see any reason why it is showing up as a problem. Not even why TB would try to load those. Probably something else that depends on them. Sorry!
Looks like they're dependencies of other dll files that TB uses. I will run the profiler on dependency walker and also run process monitor and see if I can find anything there.
This is a real bummer though, my old computer died literally days ago and the surface is my replacement computer. I'm not going to be downloading random
I think it's something to do with running 64bit windows 8, it'd be good if someone else running 64bit could confirm this though. A friend of mine has 64bit windows 8, it works on his machine.
This is quite annoying. Of all the programs that I use this is one of the ones that I really need to work. Damnit. Seems like the default drivers (and even the updated ones through windows update) are no good for running TB.
Had to go to intels website and download the latest drivers manually (the auto-update wont allow me to download them). Is usually crap for Windows regarding hardware. They can be years off of the curve if they bother at all. I had a laptop that used a 2007 update that they never had in their update database.
One update that partially disabled my laptop. Had to download the fixed update on another machine and use a pen drive to fix it.
Having a slight issue with using this editor. When I spawn in a light, there's no obvious way to control the radius/strength of the light fixture. When I compiled the map, the entire room was made super duper bright. Is there some flag i'm supposed to set? I think i'm missing something.
you need to add a 'light' key to the light entity and give it a numerical value, something like 100.
(the editor isn't very friendly to people new to Quake editing when it comes to the entities and some of the properties they may need or use. It's a work in progress) also, make sure when you compile, you also run a light compiler. qbsp only generates the polygonal hulls of the map, you also need to run a light compiler on the bsp to generate the lightmap. http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Getting_Started_Mapping may be of help if you are still confused! I already know about the lightmaps generator, I just needed to know about what key to put in, thanks.
These are Bengt's tools: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/
Which are still the standard for q1 compiling; very dependable and the tool tips document on that page is full of useful information. There's also Tyrann's tools, which are more modern / experimental and support detail brushes (more detail without longer vis times): http://www.disenchant.net/ Here's two sites given to me in this thread with all the info about the Quake entities:
http://www.quakewiki.net/archives/worldcraft/entity/standard/standard.shtm http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quake/QDP/qmapspec.html I always notice that when i'm using Trenchbroom, there's the words "Smart Editor Not Availabe" on the window. Why is this?
The Smart editors are a set of specialized editors for entity properties. Currently, the only smart editors available are the spawnflags editor and the color editor, which is shown if you select a spawnflags property or a color property, respectively.
There are plans for more smart editors for properties such as angle, angles, mangle and so forth, but these are currently not implemented. The editor shows the "not available" message when you select a property for which no smart editor is available. Can't stop playing around with it. Good job! I'm even considering dropping Radiant for Quake. There's only one thing I can't figure out. In Radiant, you have 2d views which I use extensively for clipping complex curves.
Trenchbroom doesn't have that and without it, I'm kinda lost on how to do it. It does show the coordinates but I'm really missing the grid. There's probably a viable technique for this but so far I haven't found it. To illustrate my point and make my question easier: http://kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/docs/images/view_management_normal.jpg How would one go about creating that arch brushwork in Trenchbroom? I'd use the 3D clip tool and the vertex tool for this. It really does require some practice to create this kind of architecture in 3D, but it works. One thing that is really different from Radiant et. al. is that in TB, you have to move the camera around a lot.
Maybe necros and others can shed some light... in the long run, I hope someone will get around to making a bunch of tutorials for TB. As in snap to a fixed orthogonal axis and have a non-perspective view.
;P Not sure if this was reported, but the editor crashes if you snap vertices and then try to move them around.
Hit 'C' to activate the clipping tool, you can then place up to three point to define the clipping plane.
V activate vertex manipulation, although it can cause microleaks if used as structural stuff and you don't use the snap to vertices action. Use Tab to lock movement to X or Y axis, and hold Alt to switch to vertical Z axis movement. With those you can easily make complex geometry fairly quickly. Trenchbroom allows for much more freeform brushwork. Which is where the grid mindset becomes hard to shake off. I've been using the editor for months now and still find myself constrained by the habit of thinking in front/sides/top grid terms. It is worth unlearning that :) Done. It looks like this doesn't always happen, though. I've given more information about that in the issue entry.
Good and quick replies, thank you all. It was more a question in general. I'm having some difficulties finding the right words in English. Clipping and free form brush work is one thing, controlling the coordinates is another.
I made this in Radiant: http://imgur.com/60ZuxN2 I was only able to do this by using some math in determining the grid coordinates to make all the curves out of brushes. That's something, as far as I'm aware, that I cannot do in Trenchbroom. I hope this makes sense. Anyway, I can always build those parts in Radiant and convert to them Quake and import it in Trenchbroom. would it be helpful if you could place a grid plane to help you find the proper coordinates? Is the problem that you can only see the grid where it is already projected onto brushes?
entirely in TB and I managed to get a lot of curve action going on. You can still apply a 2d grid mindset to working 3d.
You can make any of those shapes shown there in TB quite easily, you can just point the cam directly at it and use brush clipping with the grid enabled to get the same results. The only thing I wasn't able to figure out was making curved pipes, I'm sure it can be done but I couldn't manage to figure it out. Someone should just make a bunch of prefab shapes to be honest. You mean a curved pipe like that? http://imgur.com/AQ7eRxa
I did this in TrenchBroom with the help of the grid. Granted, it's not the most curvy thing ever, but it gets the job done. :p ... originally I was going to have my deck map have pipes leading into the different slime pits. but I scrapped the idea after several failed attempts at getting the pipe-work done (though there are some quite primitive pipes in the map in the final release).
The CZG tutorial depends on being able to scale brushes as a whole rather than adjust faces alone.
I've got a map full of right angled pipes, should probably figure out a decent curved pipe construction method. I'm guessing you used rotation, clip and snap vertices skacky? Yup. I didn't use the snap vertices command since it's glitchy for me, but I did use vertex editing.
Thanks for the link Ijed. Different math, but the same system.
I've been a dumbass since I didn't realise a couple of things in Trenchbroom. But I do now. Tada! http://imgur.com/jMleUOh So this will be my editor of choice for Quake. Can't wait to start making maps. Btw, I do miss a brush merge option but I see it's already on the list. everyone has said it better than me already. :)
I will say that it is a little bit awkward doing some brush operations without a 2d grid. placement within the map coordinate is difficult to gauge, for example. i often put down point entities at the +- 4096 mark so I can keep track of where I am. I have yet to start a map from scratch in TB, but i suspect the lack of a easily visible global coordinate system would be annoying. Personally I open my map with worldcraft to see if it's near the boundaries or not. It's also useful to see if I've made some bad manipulations. Now that I think about it, an error report window would be handy.
error reporting is definitely planned. i think i'd just like some extra visualization stuff like being able to see '0 0 0' as well as the boundaries (or even arbitrary boundaries to help me keep a sense of place relative to the map origin).
Necros said what I didn't manage to phrase correctly. I take it this would be helpfull then:
quote would it be helpful if you could place a grid plane to help you find the proper coordinates? Is the problem that you can only see the grid where it is already projected onto brushes? quote had a grid plane that ran through its 3d view that also showed you the edge boundaries. Maybe a toggle version of this would suffice?
I think this would come under a general 'helper objects' thing. Maybe including other stuff as well, like a tape measure.
I moved my trenchbroom folder to my laptop so I can map during my studies' pasttimes, but whenever I try to use the Vertex tool, a message comes up saying an error has occured, and if I choose "ignore" the map just deletes itself and I cannot make a brush or spawn an entity.
Check the system requirements stated on TBs download page.
Had the same problem, my hardware (gfx-card) was just too old to cope with OpenGL 2.1. And you need to have the VisualC++ package installed, when running it under Windows. :) Changelog:
- Keyboard customization - Restrict to X or Y axis when moving objects - Limit face points to integer coordinates - New duplication options (drag to duplicate and duplicate in specific direction) - New information bar at top of 3D view - Moved search field to information bar - Improved precision and stability of vertex tool - Select objects by line number - Brush resizing feels more natural and snaps more accurately - Autosave when the applicaton exits - More brush filtering options - Better performance for view filters - Clip tool remembers last clip side - Clip tool adds new brushes to parent entities of clipped brushes - Clipped brushes remain selected after deactivating the clip tool - Double click on brush selects all brushes belonging to the containing entity - Shift + double click on brush to select all of its faces - Paint selection - Show entity angle in 3D view - Camera tracks for point file navigation and center on selection - Show compass in 3D view - Buttons for texture flipping in face inspector - Hotkeys to activate inspector tabs - Smooth camera navigation with WASD keys - Customizable texture browser icon size - Render skip / clip / hint / trigger and liquid brushes semi-transparently - Numerous bug fixes Download: http://kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/downloads.php I click it and it says "a problem caused the program to stop working correctly. Windows will close the program and notify you if a solution is available"
Probably would be worth me rolling back the drivers and reinstalling. With hw specs, windows and driver versions? Thanks!
hope it helps. I have the next few weeks off work, I might try and reformat my machine and freshly install the latest drivers. I need to try this new version, and hopefully make something.
As I wrote in the issue, I can't support the Surface as I don't have access to one. The latest build works in my Windows 8 VM, so I guess it's a driver issue.
It doesn't come up with any insightful error messages either cause windows has always been a piece of crap in that regard.
It won't be a huge bother to reformat probably, I keep my machines fairly stock most of the time. Changes
- More natural snapping when resizing brushes - Remove limit on maximum mip texture dimensions - Don't fall back to software renderer on OS X Download: http://kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/downloads.php sadly I'm using this on the old decrepit laptop that I used to make my first TB map. BUT, it does run TB and this one works too.
I love the changes you've made to this version, I especially love how the entities are now linked showing you what is connected to what (in terms of what it triggers). This is a very UnrealED change that I greatly appreciate. I would love to see some of the worldcraft texture features (like align to floor and the auto-align tools etc), plus obviously 220 support (more accurate texture mapping ftw). I will dabble in some map making soon, keep up the good work Sleepy! Hi there, nice job with the editor. I'm thinking it is possible to make a group of brushes and turn ON the instance mode so if I'll change something in one instance it will change in all other instances of this group. Saving such groups to files would be neat :)
But I still haven't figured out how to make it work well. I have some ideas, but it'll take a while.
Just dropping by again and snagged the latest update. Much appreciated! I love this tool and its made my willingness for making maps in quake2 rejuvenated. I might have missed it but was there a request ever for colored lights / general lighting previews with this tool?
Either way keep on with the great work! Quake 2 support is already being worked on for TB 2.0. It's coming along nicely, but it will take a while as 2.0 is a complete rewrite.
Lighting preview has of course been suggested by quite a few people, but it's hard to get right and there are more pressing issues right now. Meaning, it's on my to do list, but not with a very high priority right now. Got it to work (dunno how long for), using driver version 9.17.10.2867 from 05/12/2012.
This was from going to settings and "refreshing" the system, not a complete reformat. There's definitely some driver issues with the surface pro. It may be a good idea to turn off GL by default, or at least externally. This seems to be causing a lot of the problems I am experiencing with TB and my Surface Pro.
If I try to use the vertex manipulation tool while opengl instancing is active I get this lovely crash - http://imgur.com/ovOWV01 I'm looking for someone to help me out with some icons for TrenchBroom's UI. I need about 10 icons:
Preferences (32x32) Game Setup View Setup Mouse Setup Keyboard Setup Various (16x16) Add Remove Path Save Delete I would describe the style as "flat and reduced". Does anyone want to help out? I'll warn you right now that I'm picky ;-) Game Setup - don't really know what to put here
View Setup - A widescreen computer monitor Mouse Setup - A stylized mouse seen from above without any rotation, e.g. the buttons point up Keyboard - A stylized keyboard seen from above without any rotation. Add - a plus sign Remove - a minus sign Path - don't know Save - a flopyy disk of course ;-) Delete - a trash can? since it's gpl you could just pick from the many free icon sets. I had good experiences with iconfinder.com
Some from that link above.
I love drawing these things, but then again, why reinvent the wheel every time? http://somerandomdude.com/work/open-iconic/ http://www.gentleface.com/free_icon_set.html http://www.brightmix.com/blog/more-icons-in-the-brightmix-icon-set-free-for-all/ They should all have compatible licenses afaik. for the update! That's great news. I was already using wxWidgets 2.9.5 which resolved many of the issues I was having.
...But I'm having a bit of an issure with the light entity in trenchbroom.
I want to make a lighting affect like this: http://i.imgur.com/m1EbAhU.jpg But I get this: http://i.imgur.com/hagirQu.jpg Any idea how to fix this? Try going into the light entity and click the plus sign, then name the key "wait" or "delay" without the quote marks. And change the values a bit.
Try wait 5, delay 0 and light 500. That might make a bright light with a small radius. It worked! but I'm wondering how I'm supposed to get lighting styles in trenchbroom. (this might be the last time i'd bother asking here for today.)
is key. A lot of the compilers will come with info in readme files on different settings you can add to light entities.
That's how I found out that setting. Make a few different test maps too, nothing beats testing your ideas for different results. TB doesn't show the values to configure the entities. Open up the source file, either
Personally I think delay 0 has way too much "reach", it just goes forever. I try to use only one or two in a given area, mostly for fill lighting.
Here is some pretty good info on Quake lighting: http://shoresofnis.wordpress.com/guides/lighting-basics/ Since you've got a Modern Quake Level Editor, Maybe a Modern Logo/Splash could work. It would go perfect on T-shirts to generate awareness and funds. Appeals to the New Gen Level Makers?
http://i43.tinypic.com/rml5xv.png let me know if you like it? http://i44.tinypic.com/2ldxd74.png (from my previous post)
The broom part looks a little out of place though. I'd also drop the texture and outer glow personally.
Cool! But if you want more feedback, it's best to post screenshots in the "Screenshots & Betas" thread.
The 1.1 branch is not getting updated anymore unless there are serious problems with it, and the 2.0 branch is still under heavy development and it will be a long time until that gets published.
Why? I need that improved texture alignment! ;)
Also, I am coming up against problems with TB atm where anytime I try and place an entity it comes up with this - https://www.dropbox.com/s/e65l532v85f6blr/Screenshot%202013-12-22%2015.08.44.png I click ignore and carry on but it's a pain all the same. It's really too much to list right now, but most importantly TB2 will have support for other games than Quake.
That I've been meaning to post.
The most interesting one seems to be having a selection out of view, which causes a cascade error message which continues even when closing the editor itself and has to be closed from the OS. I believe this is down to map size though. Will post it when I get near a PC. it happens every time I enter the entity menu. Dunno if it's a compatibility thing or the build I'm using but it happens every time. I'm using build 368.
So the entity browser, or more precisely, dragging entities from there to the 3D view is the problem rather than the context (right click) menu in the 3D view?
Dragging the entities from the bar on the right into the 3d workspace is causing the pop up error message. Like I said, I click ignore and I can still work, but the pop up is a nuisance.
As a general warning, be wary of clicking ignore. While you may be able to continue using the editor, behind the scenes some things may have stopped working or processes within the editor may not have completed successfully. I would recommend saving to a new filename and restarting the editor to be safe.
well since that happens upon every click of the window pane and every entity dragged into the work space that would take forever. Not had any problems with the maps other than some wandering vertices (which, can I say, is the biggest issue I seem to have in general, I like to throw down a lot of brushes in between tests and having to go back and redo entire areas due to wandering vertices makes me not want to map).
Make sure to enable the "force integer plane points" option in the map properties. The other problem is likely related to Windows 8 or your Surface tablet, but I'll try to fix it for TB 2. Or you could just use the context menu to create entities instead of dragging them from the palette.
I'll persevere. I clicked force integer plane points after I went back and corrected everything. I thought this caused problems though??
but it will be different in TB2, trust me. This has caused too many problems for too many people.
It's a bugbear. With it on there's less precision, with it off you can produce bad geometry. I turned it off, then bound 'snap verticies' to the space bar and hit that whenever I'm vertex editing brushwork.
First off, add me to the chorus of folks praising this editor. Even more mind-blowing is that it runs Mac-native -- thanks!
Anyway, I wanted to know if there were any Mac GUI compiling tools out there, a la Necros' work? Yes, I have TyrUtils (for which I'm grateful), but I just feel a little dirty using Terminal ;) . For that matter, is there any chance of in-editor compiling arriving with TB 2? To answer your questions, there is nothing like necros' tool for OS X, and yes, in-editor compiling is on my todo list.
Huh, I wasn't aware of a Mac port for Necros' compiler. Actually, I can only find the Windows version; could you (or anybody, really) post a URL to the OS X file?
that there is literally nothing for the Mac OSX that is like Necros' compiler.
would be a feature I request. mouse 2 bringing up the entity menu thing is annoying me because it's also the move view button and the menu pops up all the time. I'd prefer to have the menu be the alt key or mouse 3 perhaps.
if you didn't move the mouse in between mouse down and mouse up. Does it pop up regardless of whether you moved the mouse?
G400, and it is great. But as I am on the surface I tend to use the Cerulian keyboard/mouse combo thing I have. I'm looking to replace the keyboard with a type surface 2 as the keyboard I have is also garbage (but with only 1 usb port on the surface I needed an all in one thing, luckily I just bought a usb hub).
At some point I am going to get a proper desktop PC again I think, looking to get some evil genius set up involving several monitors and an all-black scheme (and fulfilling my dreams of owning a das keyboard). I really cannot see myself dropping so much on such a keyboard. And I'm the kind of guy who would drop lots of cash on a keyboard too.
I have two of those Pfu keyboards. I've been using one of them for almost 15 years. The other is stored in a closet in case the first one ever breaks. Built like a tank.
The ones I have are the Happy Hacking Lite 2 which are much less expensive than the one in mfx's link. Still not cheap though.
More like $70 for the Lite 2. Still quite a bit for a keyboard, then again, I've been using it non-stop for 15 years. The other computer in the house generally needs a keyboard replacement every year or two, so it probably all evens out in the end.
I just buy a clean refurbished one every year at a thrift store for a buck or 2. Most haven't ever been been out of their wrapping.
And I swear, somehow cheap keyboards type better. It's basically selection brushes, but it's rendered differently and it seems a bit more useful like this.
I can't seem to make them work for moving around in the 3D view. I found where to change this in the preferences but it just doesn't seem to take. It shows up, down, left and right as the keys but they do nothing.
I don't like the defaults at all, even at maximum speed cranking the scroll wheel is tedious and my finger starts to hurt after a while. For some reason I find the middle mouse button awkward to use. Also, what are you trying to do with the Arrow keys? What OS are you on? Which version of TB?
Windows 7
Mouse is a plain old Logitech M100, $10 at Walmart. I just downloaded TrenchBroom today (and the VC runtime). It says it's version 1.1.1 Build 368. I had tried it last year on a different computer but it wouldn't work with the video card in that computer. This one is a GeForce 210 and display seems fine. I just want to drive around in the 3D view the same way as in Worldcraft and Netradiant, arrows move forward and back and strafe right/left. Aim with mouse. Just like Quake :) I was also having problems such as clicking on parts of the interface didn't do anything and the arrow keys wanted to act like the Tab key. I maybe messed something up so I deleted the TrenchBroom registry key and I'll start all over. Please try if the WASD keys work after you deleted the registry key. Also make sure that the 3D view has focus when you try to move around. Finally, TB doesn't have a property flythrough mode, i.e., you cannot use the mouse to aim while moving around with WASD, but you can right drag to emulate that.
I tried changing the wasd keys to the arrow keys, but couldn't get them to work correctly. What's weird is that they would work if the menu was popped up, otherwise nothing.
Also, why is it that none of the other actions that used the arrow keys were conflicting until I set the arrow keys as movement keys. That was kind of strange. uses Voxelfarm
http://voxelfarm.com Author seems to be playing with editing methods from time to time. I removed all the conflicts and had the arrow keys used only for camera movement and it wouldn't work.
So it can't actually be done even though it looks like it's set up correctly in Preferences? if it doesn't it's a bug. You can file a bug report on github, and if it's a quick fix I'll release an update.
Sleep, how do I make these usable?
I remember you said the texture name can be forced by enclosing it in "" qoutes - did you mean doing this using a find and replace in Notepad++? Will Trenchbroom respect the change? Will it revert it to none-quoted texture names if reopened? Will I need to redo the find and replace if duplicating brushes with their textures named in such a fashion? All stuff I can find out by experimenting, just haven't got around to it yet and a bit of extra info would help. Cheers If it's really important, I'll try to hack it into the map parser, which is the source of the problem. And no, if you save it the map, it will discard all the double quotes.
So I can do one changeover as a test and then only worry about it for proper testing builds.
I think I can live with that for now, it's pretty easy to run a find and replace from a text editor. I'm sorry, but I currently have little time to work on TB. I'm constantly working on it, but I'm not making huge progress. I do expect that TB2 will be released this year, and I am currently preparing actual beta releases.
I don't know yet whether Quake 3 support will make it to TB2, but if it doesn't, it will be at the top of the list for 2.1. @onetruepurple or they already fixed the issues that happen when someone puts a space in a texture name, etc.
if the exporter isn't embedding the texture name in quotes, and its importer differs from how qbsp will parse it, then that's actually a bug in the editor. but hey, at least this little issue helps prevent the engine from bugging out on existing maps! :) also relevant: http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-talk/other-games/5783-hexen-ii-community-work-discussion-25.html#post146557 TrenchBroom 2 has a new interface that makes better use of screen space and is at the same time cleaner and less distractive:
http://i.imgur.com/z0aU4Px.png what the texture alignment window is trying to show. It just looks like a big texture to me with lines on. Are those lines part of the brush?
For texture alignment it would be nice if we could skew textures in a similar way to Worldcraft. (you can make it angled but the horizontal stays the same) I know not all mappers like the wait that looks but I think it would be a useful feature. would be a neat feature like ijed says. I currently do this in notepad if I want to make a huge change.
If you've ever used a modeling app, that texture window should make you all tingly. Sure, it's still restricted to Quake's texture alignment limits but man WHAT a great idea. Being able to rotate and align faces in a UV editing style window will be SO much faster and more accurate than trying to do it in the viewport.
Unless I'm not seeing the right thing and am maybe projecting too much. :P a modelling app. Or should I say, I never got the point with any of my models where I was making the skins and uv maps.
It's something I intend to pick up eventually, even soonish. - supports Valve's 220 format, i.e., UV mapping
- snaps texture offset, scale and rotation automatically to the edges of the face being edited, that is you can -- move the texture around and it's edges (yellow lines) will snap to the face vertices / edges -- scale textures (by dragging the yellow lines) and they will snap to the face vertices / edges -- rotate (by dragging the white ball on the circle) and the rotation angle will snap so that the yellow lines are aligned with the face edges Basically, you can very quickly fit textures to faces. The only thing I haven't quite figured out is how to make it easier to align textures on adjacent faces to each other, but I'm working on that, too. you can drag the rotation / scaling origin (red lines / white circle) around so that you can rotate about any point on the face's boundary plane.
seeing this in action. Looks interesting from how you describe it.
I really hope we see support for other games soon, I wouldn't mind trying my hand at quake 2 engine games (maybe even heretic 2 or something really obscure) Quake 2 is already supported and so is Hexen 2. I see no reason why Heretic 2 shouldn't work out of the box either, I'd just need to set it up with an FGD file.
I also plan to support Half Life out of the box, and later HL2 and Quake 3. Sleepy: Are you still experimenting/planning any kind of 2d view or virtual grid on areas where they are no brushes?
Both, actually. TB2 will have 2D views for those who can't work without them, and it will also allow you to place a virtual grid in the 3D view.
I think that defeats his objective with the editor. However I would really love to be able to create blocks of a certain size by typing in the dimensions rather than click/drag out the shape. A feature like this would have helped me a lot recently.
My original vision was "What would level editing be like if you were in the game?", which is why I didn't want to add 3D views. But after having all those long discussions with many people, I do realize that somethings are just easier to do in 2D that in 3D. But TB will always put the 3D view first, and you will only have to switch to 2D for certain special tasks when you need that kind of precision.
Will v2 have more primitive options? Cylinders and such? That's something that gets me whenever I fire it up
This is the point when someone tells me it already supports that and I'm blind. :) Another nice feature would be something like in UEd where you can select adjacent walls.
http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Legacy:Selecting_Surfaces Something I've been doing on things like columns and curved walls is what I call "texture wrapping". It's similar to what was done in Doom editing where the texture tiles continuously across multiple surfaces with no breaks in alignment (DCK could do it automatically).
It's a pain to do in Quake because of the need to scale the texture when the surface isn't on 90 degree angles. It might be something useful to add to Trenchbroom. I can make some screenshots if it's not clear what I'm describing. Auto scaling to compensate for off axis walls would be really nice. Hard to make it work with rotation tho.
will only work on surfaces which have their normal parallel to either of the coordinate planes. For arbitrary normals, all bets are off unless you're using Valve's 220 format (which you should if you're working on a new map).
maybe at some point, yeah. Or, in a more generalized fashion, procedural brush generators.
Currently, there's no conversion process. You create a new map and choose whether to use standard Quake or Valve. But conversion from standard to Valve is simple. The other way around can't be done without loss of precision, though.
I've tried to do it by hand before and the results are unpredictable.
Stripping out the extra data also has fugly results. Looking forward to TB2! Hammer has the alt-right click texture alignment, that will automatically align faces across edges. Ridiculously handy.
That and the targetname eyedropper are the two hammer features I really wish Radiant had. > Hammer has the alt-right click texture alignment, that will automatically align faces across edges. Ridiculously handy.
When it does this, is texture stretching also corrected for surfaces that are off axis (not on 90 degree planes), or is that already part of the Valve 220 alignment? "maybe I'm projecting too much" is the best / worst unintentional pun you could make about a texture mapping feature
TrenchBroom 2's live issue browser with quick fixes: http://t.co/QCJToJLhkS
Obligatory feature request:
'reload def / fgd file' So that when writing / fixing one you can update with a nearby button instead of reloading the map entirely. Probably not a common user feature though. I really am finding a lot of texture alignment stuff to be a pain right now.
Plus the idea of being able to map for other games is a huge bonus. Accidentally unbound escape from deselect, when I try to rebind it the damn thing no longer works! Am I doing something completely wrong here?1
how the hell did I not realise that tab pretty much locks the axis you want to move along? This could have saved me so much time....
I get this error: Malformed map file: expected token of type opening parenthesis, or closing parenthesis, but found integer number at line 15, column 89
Also, holding alt while you move the brush will lock movement to vertical only (y-axis).
I went to make a sandwich and came back to this. Console says there were no errors. WTF?
But that should have kicked in before, and others would have run into it also. Sorry, no idea what that was. Hope you didn't lose too much work.
like double clicking a func_detail will select all the brushes in that group... or pressing alt and the arrow keys will flip the brushes 90 degrees.
I feel like a noob! Read the docs and have a look at the cheat sheet. All those keyboard commands are in there.
Btw, the double click behavior might change in TB2. Single click on a brush that belongs to an entity (other than worldspawn) will select all brushes in the entity. Double click to select individual brushes. Discuss. I personally prefer being able to just grab a single brush of an entity right off the bat, because most of the time, that's all I need to work with. If I need the rest, there's a shortcut to select all it's siblings.
I forget what other editor it was that selected all the brushes of an entity when you clicked just one, but it was honestly one of the most annoying parts for me. I forget what other editor it was that selected all the brushes of an entity when you clicked just one, but it was honestly one of the most annoying parts for me.
Seems like Worldcraft used to do that. On the other hand having to go to the menu and click or use a 3 key combination just to select all brushes of an entity is a pain. Just selecting a single brush by default seems best. Maybe highlight the other brushes if the one selected is part of an entity and then use an alternate method to select the rest (double-click, shift-click, whatever...). It's hard to say without trying it.. but I think it would be annoying for people who use func_group/func_detail heavily. if most brushes are part of some entity, then you would have to get used to always double-clicking to select a single brush, and i'd guess that selecting a single brush is more common than selecting the whole entity.
Once some brushes have been tied together as an entity, you click once to select the whole entity. Seems logical to me, but I've been using the same editor for freakin' years.
select one or all the brushes is just as simple as one or two clicks it doesnt matter for me.
That originally asked for this, just because I'd been used to Worldcraft working like that.
Now, after using TB for so long, especially managing func_groups a lot, I'm not sure which method is better. Not quite a full 180 on opinion, more like a sharp 90. It would be nice to get some sort of simple grouping that wasn't reliant on turning the brushes into a fund_group
It can get a little messy since you need to sprinkle stuff into the MAP file, but that's just extra parsing for Trenchbroom and if they are comment lines they won't affect the compilation at all...
if it can be done well. I'd love a function like this as I have, at least in my latest map, a few entities together that rely on separate alpha values...
TB2 will feature groups and layers which are based on func_group, but extended so that you can also add entities to them.
Okay, the more I think about it, the less convinced I am of the new selection stuff for brush entities. I'll keep it was it was, i.e., one click selects one brush, and you can select all brushes of an entity with a double click or a keyboard shortcut. Thanks! Wow, I've never considered an Ogre arc preview before
And how about a "Fiend will fuck up and get stuck here" marker. As long as we're asking for stuff... While you're at it add operating doors, platforms, and animated func_train/path corner combinations, etc. (actually, I seem to remember an old version of Radiant that had some of this).
Some automated way to set up pathing networks would be awesome too. Select all the path_corners you want, in the correct order, hit hot key, enter a base name, and it gives them all a unique target/targetname combo that links them together. Easy patrols.
Some automated way to set up pathing networks would be awesome too.
That's basically what I was saying. I'm certain there was a version of Radiant that did this. It didn't automatically name everything, but once you had it set up it would animate it in the editor and you could see the stuff move in the 3D view the same as it would in game. It's possible it was a plug-in of some kind. I remember using it when I was working on a Quake 2 map, maybe 10 years ago. I will try to make entity "scripting" easier, that is, provider some way for quickly setting up paths and logic gates. I don't think I'll be doing in-editor animation though because that would be very specific for every game, and TB2 is not going to be limited to Quake.
IIRC, AFAIK, BBQ, ( TB1 at least ) didn't do an Early Z Prepass or similar, so shaders are potentially invoked quite a lot, even if the fragments don't end up visible.
Whats your laptop's hardware like ? Do you know which OpenGL Version it runs ? I put this in the issue tracker and I'll add it when I get around to it. Maybe there are a few other places where I could disable some stuff to get better performance.
Unless you're gonna put a low-graphics fallback or option in don't go adding it in blindly. You lose features, I only wanted it to be there for people who can't use Trenchbroom otherwise. Loving the editor btw, really is quick and intuitive to use.
I would only add this together with other features which would make the editor usable for people with low end hardware, basically like a "safe mode" option.
And thanks for the nice words, happy that you like it! yeah, went back to radiant for a bit and while the 2d views are useful, it felt awkward and slow working in radiant's 3d view.
Yeah, I caved. Some things are easier to do in 2D than in 3D. TB2 will have two layouts, a Hammer-like 4-pane view for incest enthusiasts and a full size layout where you toggle between 3D and XY, XZ and YZ views with the tab key.
With 3D view and 2D view side by side, using tab to cycle through the 2D views.
2d view is good for making accurate measurements, something I really found difficult when I first started with trenchbroom. I don't feel like I need it much now, infact it may have been a bit of a crutch.
I'm looking forward to 2 things from next versions of TB, making maps for other games and making quake maps with 220 format texture accuracy. a Hammer-like 4-pane view for incest enthusiasts
lmao, but yeah, thanks for this. I love 4 views. I find the single view at a time way too limiting; having access to all 3 axes at onces helps me keep a better overview of what's going on. A nice toggle to go straight to full screen 3d (maybe camera centered on current or last selected brush/entity?) would be fantastic. The more fluid 2d <-> 3d, the better! I don't feel like I need it much now, infact it may have been a bit of a crutch. I often have to make 'measurement' brushes to get the precision I want which slows things down for me. But even with that, I still prefer TB to anything else right now. I think TB currently limits you to -8192 to +8192, if you need to raise those limits, then this is currently not supported.
But those areas aren't playable.
To enable the feature: Step 1: Build a huge map As SleepWalkR says, there is the +/- 8192 limit, but this is only visible in engine.
In many editors (WC is an exception) this limit is not even visible and you can just keep building forever. Trenchbroom is like this, at least in current release version; without anything delineated to say 'won't work beyond this point'. In any case this is an engine limitation; I don't think it'd be good to retrofit TB to impose it as well since that'd affect development for other games. I think FTE allows for gameplay outside the 8192 limit in Q1 as well. Its +/- 4k, 8k range.
And its a protocol limit rather than a random engine limit (read: makes stuff incompatible). Some engines always use more wasteful/precise coords(DP). Some engines guess at map startup and probably get it wrong half the time(FTE). Some engines hack the protocol and probably crash. Others just crash outright. And others will just wrap coords in a really buggy sort of way because noone hacked them to do weird stuff yet (the inevitable fate of all quake engines - doing weird stuff). BSP format limit is +/- 32k, due to the use of shorts in the node+leaf structs. This can be worked around, but its not pretty. QBSP has an expectation that all geometry will be within +/- 99k. Anyway, geometry outside the +/- 4k limit is fine (distant details or whatever) in any engine, so long as entity/effects don't leave the boundary. Maybe generate a clip brush on the boundary the first time something gets put beyond it, just to make a point, or a popup message warning them or something. Otherwise, let the mapper shoot themselves in the foot if they really want to. Limiting yourself to 18-year-old limits is stupid. Rocks and stuff beyond fences and out of windows, plus a train arriving from 'far away'.
Also some walls and stuff that if I moved 32 units would send the player to an alternate dimension, if they stepped up close. @onetruepurple:
An editor that intentionally cripples its users is never a good thing. This is the TrenchBroom thread after all, not the 'I hate everything that wasnt made by id' thread. oh noes! people might use it for things that are not cripply faithful! we can't have that! get the pitchfork! its stupid, and its not helpful. A train moving in from "Far away" is an entity as are any lights and so on, and entities outside the +/-4k limit can cause bad things to happen. This is Quake, not Far Cry or something like that that may seem unlimited.
You can try the huge clipping brush barrier to keep the player inside the limits or make a detail brush with a skip texture that will also effect entities unlike a clipping brush. bsp entities tend to have an origin of '0 0 0'. they can start outside and move 4k qu in any direction without a problem - so long as the player, other pointentities (lights are okay), or projectiles/shotguns can't enter that region.
The path_corners are outside - I assume this isn't causing trouble because they don't do anything.
I did have the train teleporting to the world 0,0 (and being invisible) at one point but this was bad qc / configuration of the path corners. Then I map where they landed at the bottom.
Then I whinge that it's taking too long to finish. After mapping the group of tourists taking photographs of where the boundries landed from some distance away. Etc etc. Not sure about evil since it doesn't have the music.
Although considering the corpses decorating it, hidden altars and stuff, creepy ambient sounds from Spiney and the Rubicon setting... maybe. I never really think about making my maps evil. They just happen that way :D Would be possible to add support for source engine (HL2, CS:GO, Portsl 1/2) games? Because Hammer is very outdated tool and Source needs something like Trenchbroom.
This is definitely on my todo list for TB2. If you're willing to help out be testing and discussing necessary features, then get in touch via email: kristian.duske@gmail.com - same if you know someone who is serious about giving TB2 support for these features. I will only do it if there is someone who helps out by describing requirements and doing testing. Otherwise it's just not possible as I don't know these engines very well.
otherwise it's just not possible to fine tune the support for these games.
But it was a nightmare working with quark. Hell I will make a map for every game!!
I think he's asking for someone who is well versed in each game so they can tell him the nuances and subtleties that are wrong. He can test raw map compilation himself. :)
Heretic2 would also be on the list of games which could be supported. For now I have Quake 2 and Hexen 2, and it would be cool to find people who work with those games.
If you want to make a Quake 2 map, then the easiest way to get at the current betas is to install dropbox and give me your dropbox email so that I can invite you to the beta folder.
So far I feel like this is kind of a huge step back in a lot of ways from version 1.
- bring back ctrl d duplicate. Please. - Would like to bind keys without needing ctrl as a modifier, I like to snap to grid using space bar (like all the time). That is unless you have fixed the issue of wandering vertices - Would like to WASD without having to press F first (it seems terrible that this is a toggle), and allow flying to be back to the speed it used to be. - bring back the reset button for textures - bring back copy face attributes feature (when a face is selected press alt and left click on another face) - would like to be able to work in a window straight away rather than having to select it, like in tb 1 - would be nice to have the old black void rather than pure white. Or at least allow is to choose our own colour - would be neat if TB showed us when we were getting to the map border (+/- 4096 units) - make it easier to select the frame to adjust the size of the windows please, right now it feels like I have to select something 1 pixel thick - why can I no longer add my own keys to entities? Please bring this feature back - The texture rotating thingy on the face manipulator is way too sensitive to be of any use at all, this would be better as a slider IMO. Less fancy but I would rather have something that works. -might be worth having the texture implimentation that I *think* is in quark, that is it just grabs the textures from the I dunno how this works with compiling though? It might be a better way of getting the textures though instead of searching around online. I am tempted to flesh out maps in TB1 and then use TB2 to finish off the very last bits. I suppose this defeats the point of having a new TB though. First of all, remember that this is a complete rewrite. Some features might just have been forgotten, so please do create feature requests for the stuff you're missing.
- bring back ctrl d duplicate. Please. Add a feature request to the issue tracker. But you can now duplicate by Ctrl+LMB drag or by Ctrl+Arrow key as well, so I'm not sure whether Ctrl+d is still necessary. - Would like to bind keys without needing ctrl as a modifier, I like to snap to grid using space bar (like all the time). That is unless you have fixed the issue of wandering vertices This is simple impossible due to the fact that some OSs don't allow this and it basically rendered the editor useless on Linux. That said, some actions which are only useful in the 3D view can be bound to single keystroke hotkeys, and I can add the snap command to those if you wish. Please create a feature request. - Would like to WASD without having to press F first (it seems terrible that this is a toggle), and allow flying to be back to the speed it used to be. The fly speed can be set in the preferences. WASD can be always on, please create a feature request. - bring back the reset button for textures That's already on the todo list. - bring back copy face attributes feature (when a face is selected press alt and left click on another face) That should already work, but you have to hold Ctrl+Alt to copy the face attributes too. Without ctrl it will only copy the texture. - would like to be able to work in a window straight away rather than having to select it, like in tb 1 That was never the case in TB1. You have to click a view to focus it - how else should the view get focus? - would be nice to have the old black void rather than pure white. Or at least allow is to choose our own colour Feature request. - would be neat if TB showed us when we were getting to the map border (+/- 4096 units) Already on the todo list. - make it easier to select the frame to adjust the size of the windows please, right now it feels like I have to select something 1 pixel thick Yes, this is a problem, but I'm reluctant to make the dividers thicker as it looks shit. I'll think of a solution for this, but it shouldn't be such a huge problem now because TB2 remembers your window layout. - why can I no longer add my own keys to entities? Please bring this feature back That's a bug ;-). Please make a bug report. - The texture rotating thingy on the face manipulator is way too sensitive to be of any use at all, this would be better as a slider IMO. Less fancy but I would rather have something that works. You can have more precision by increasing the radius. Just start your drag and move away from the circle center. Also notice how the textures are snapped to the face edges to make alignment easier. -might be worth having the texture implimentation that I *think* is in quark, that is it just grabs the textures from the I dunno how this works with compiling though? It might be a better way of getting the textures though instead of searching around online. I don't think getting and using wad files is such a problem. Notice that you can add wad files simply by dragging them onto the editor window from Explorer. I am tempted to flesh out maps in TB1 and then use TB2 to finish off the very last bits. I suppose this defeats the point of having a new TB though. Yes, it does. I can only repeat that this is beta software and stuff is still missing. The point of being a beta tester is to report these things. This is simple impossible due to the fact that some OSs don't allow this and it basically rendered the editor useless on Linux. That said, some actions which are only useful in the 3D view can be bound to single keystroke hotkeys, and I can add the snap command to those if you wish. Please create a feature request.
Can this just be required on Linux? I've been resorting to hacking the registry keys... :D because those shortcuts might no longer work in text fields etc.
If there are functions which you feel must have a one key shortcut, then they must not be menu items, and they can only be available when the 3D view has focus. And no, I won't make this a Linux only requirement because it has created a nightmare of problems in the past, and it violates the UI guidelines of Windows and Mac OS X. if there are such functions, then I'll gladly move them from the menu to the 3D view, where they can have any shortcut you want.
At some point to give usable feedback.
So far I haven't tried the TB2 builds, but will. off the top of my head:
Clip mode: x (I would actually prefer if you could flat out drop clip points without having to enter a mode at all) Entity editor: n (like simulating radiant) Face editor: t (radiant again...) Deselect: Esc Grid size: 1-9 Grid snap off: 0 Grid display: g Freeze selection: f Hide selection: h Basically, modifier keys suck. While I am a firm believer in GUI and control standards when it comes to generic applications (eg: Winforms, web), with specialized applications like this one, I lean more towards efficiency and speed. Hello SleepwalkR,
Been away for ages but its nice to see you still working on the new revamped editor. Possible for access to the beta version as well? If so awesome. My mail is rbanninga[at]gmail[dot]com Does the current beta work with quake 2 map editing or still quake 1 at the moment? Sorry if this was already covered in the discussion above Regards it does hexen 2 and quake 2 editing. I haven't tried quake 2 editing yet but I will be doing it soon.
I wouldn't call TB2 in beta really. It's more of an alpha. There are a lot of feature just plain missing, and many things do not function 100% correct just yet. You can't really use it to make a map.
sorry dude I have been really busy, you did mention to add things to this thread though. I'll try and keep stuff github as well (though I still get a bit confused on where things are on there).
...but I can't get the stable release of TrenchBroom 1.1.1 to work properly. The two main issues I'm having are crashes when either choosing the vertex tool or trying to drag and drop certain entities. I didn't quite know where to put these issues, nor could I find any fixes for them. Sorry if I'm not posting in the right places.
And set OpenGL instancing to force off. That should fix the vertex tool. As for the other issue, I need more info, such as your OS and steps to reproduce.
The OpenGL setting fixed the vertex tool for me. My OS is Windows 7 64 bit, my graphics accelerator is built into the processor, an Intel 4000 HD. I saw the entity issue on the GitHub issue tracker, and supposedly a driver update should have fixed the problem, but I'm sure my drivers are up to date.
I rolled back the driver to a previous version which seems to have fixed it for me, but the entities that previously crashed the editor were the ones that are represented by a 3d model. Now the editor runs fine, thanks for all your help!!
this editor.......
from this to this took 30 minutes. Literally just built one section of that inner circle bit, started rotating, then just lopped off a few bits that were poking out. And yes, that is a 32 sided outer circle and a 16 sided inner one. I feel like I have been waiting my whole life for this editor. This proves once more that SleepwalkR is but a giant troll. Being able to create nice curves and angled architecture used to be a real skill; in TB you just press rotate and it's done. Even the greatest noobs like skacky and mfx can now pull things off. Disappointing.
Anytime I try anything so crazy in TB ends with me getting some wandering vertices and stuff and the next time I load up the map it turns into my worst nightmare of fixing.
Unless nightmare time has been fixed? This looks great!
With the geometry inside this ring, is it possible now to compile it with "vanilla" qbsp? (without max_windings raised?) hipshot: yep, all rotation. you can set the origin of the rotation in TB2, so I move that into the center of the ring and set the rotation angle to 11.25 and rotate as I paste copies.
I simplified a bit of course, there is some preparation: First you build the section a little wider than it should be. Then you make two copies and rotate them to both sides of the original. Next, use clipping to remove excess brushwork so there is no of very little overlap. Now, delete the two extra copies and you can start copying the original again. mfx: no clue... haven't switched back from rebb's compiler since you mentioned it last time. i would suspect no, though, because when I check this out with r_drawflat and r_showtris, I can see some faces have absolutely tons of edges... It's a product of the compilation process, not the editor. :)
Essentially, all the rotated stuff creates so many intersections with the floor that you end up with faces that have large numbers of edges. You can see this when you turn on both r_drawflat and r_showtris: you find a surface that shares the same colour which is 1 face, and then count all the edges from showtris. other editors have rotate functions, too. always had. there's more reasons than the editor that people usually don't try that, like the near 100% likelihood of point on plane or winding errors and the heinously messy geometry that results.
mfx: I checked and this map does compile with normal compilers. the map where I was getting this error was a much crazier map that I was using for testing.
With the added brushwork on the ground, there are now extra splits on the faces which reduce the number of edges on each face. I suspect that if I started seeing winding errors, I could just easily go into areas with that kind of problem and force qbsp to split those faces either by offsetting textures a small amount or by placing brushwork in the middle to cause intersections. Uh... Why do I keep getting this?
Unloading existing map file and textures... Loading file D:\Games\Games\Quake\id1\maps\test3.map Assuming floating point plane coordinates Malformed map file: expected token of type string, but found integer number at line 6, column 51 Loaded map file in 0.003000 seconds Even in the autosave map? {
"spawnflags" "0" "classname" "worldspawn" "wad" "D:\Games\Games\Quake\id1\t2.wad;D:\Games\Games\Quake\id1\quake101.wad" { ( 352 -272 256 ) ( 352 -272 -0 ) ( 224 -272 256 ) 2 -0 -0 -0 1 1 ( 224 -272 256 ) ( 224 -272 -0 ) ( 224 -176 256 ) 2 -16 -0 -0 1 1 ( 352 -272 -0 ) ( 352 -144 -0 ) ( 224 -272 -0 ) 2 -0 16 -0 1 1 ( 352 -144 256 ) ( 224 -176 256 ) ( 352 -144 -0 ) 2 -0 -0 -0 1 1 ( 352 -144 256 ) ( 352 -144 -0 ) ( 352 -272 256 ) 2 -16 -0 -0 1 1 ( 352 -272 256 ) ( 224 -272 256 ) ( 352 -144 256 ) 2 -0 16 -0 1 1 ( 224 -208 -0 ) ( 352 -144 -0 ) ( 224 -176 256 ) 2 -0 -0 -0 1 1 cause TB1 to go balls up. No idea if qbsp will handle them fine, but TB1 doesn't like it.
One thing I find quiet annoying, when I create a new brush, it's spaced away from the camera, so it can go below or to close to the camera if I'm far away from where I want it. Maybe there's already a setting for it, but can't brushes just appear "on" the brush you aim at when you create one?
When you draw a brush, TB will position it on the face which was under the mouse when you started dragging. Brushes are created on the XY plane by default, but you can change the height of the brush by hold the Alt key during the drag.
Or maybe I didn't understand what you mean? actually, while i'm here, just dumping something so i remember... shortcut to make new brush appear snapped to face that would normally be moved (ie: face under cursor or face linked to the zone when face is not pointing toward camera)
Thanks, I didn't know that's how it worked. Now when I know, I always keep the pointer above the brush I want to build from.
How about using numpad 1-9 to change the grid AND also numpad + and -? Cause now I need to do ctrl+/-.
Sorry if my questions are basic and has been asked before. I'm new. Look at the docs and the main menu. You'll find all shortcuts there. Also check out the keyboard preferences.
It was discussed here: https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/418
yeah, thanks, i just haven't had a chance to check anything out yet. :)
#1433 was mainly for a different subject I want to bring up later... Been going through the settings and so, but I can't find a setting to set the default texture? I would love to have the skip texture as the default one...
Ok, cause when I compile I get some red/black checker texture, thought that was the "default" one, I guess that's just an "missing texture"-texture then.
Trenchboom doesn't like me.
when building structures like this with less than ideal geometry (http://i.imgur.com/LOFODUj.jpg) if you use the duplicate function (ctrl+D) and then align it, the brushes tend to be broken with the edges and vertexes off of the grid, slightly resized and moved. Some faces are also split into having 5 sides and everything tends to get all kind of janky. Sorry my screenshot doesn't show the result of geometry getting screwy. However it can be repeated by doing something like it.
However, building it by creating a unique brush for every bit of geometry as opposed to using the duplicate tool makes it work. There is a function that allows you to snap to grid. I have mine bound to the spacebar and I hit it every time I edit a vertice or duplicate a complex brush.
There is a function that allows you to snap to grid. I have mine bound to the spacebar and I hit it every time I edit a vertice or duplicate a complex brush.
If you snap every brush to integers every time you touch anything, why exactly haven't you just turned off float precision?
Because even with forced integers, TB can create offgrid geometry sometimes (vertex editing is particularly tricky).
has no relation to the plane points being integer or not.
Re: https://twitter.com/kristianduske/status/508004011023540225 "TrenchBroom 2 now has a layer system. Layers can be hidden and locked individually."
Please add some more options: "Exclude from compile" "Hide all layers but this one" Being able to group layers into (multi-level) groups would be great. Also being able to assign colors to layers/groups. Can you duplicate layers? Can you drag'n'drop prefabs from the TB Store into the list???? Maybe check out how QuArK does things, random link to its documentation where you can see some of the GUI and features: http://quark.sourceforge.net/infobase/maped.tutorial.advanced.html#grouptechniques Feature requests go to the issue tracker, please.
Btw, if Quark does something in one way, then it's very likely I'll choose the opposite direction. Quark is a UI nightmare. moved the first two. the third was already talked about. fourth is not that useful. fifth would just by copy/paste and make new layer.
Thanks necros!
Sleepwalkr: That's like saying iOS is a UI nightmare just because the back button is at the most far away place in the top left. Quark does lots of things very well and editors could oh well your decision. Which BSP compiler is recommended for Trenchbroom maps? I'm beta testing 2.0 and I sometimes get into situations where my alignment in the editor doesn't match the alignment in the game. Passing in "-oldaxis" just moves the problems to other faces so I'm wondering if there's a specific BSP compiler that is known to work well with TB.
Also, a link directly to it would be appreciated. :) Sorry for the tone earlier. I know you like Quark, but I don't like its interface at all. I surely has a lot of useful features, but every time I try to use it, nothing works intuitively they way I expect it. That's why I consider it a nightmare.
that may be a bug actually. i'm taking a bit of a break from testing right now, but i did notice that in some cases, faces at 45 degrees wouldn't match up in game. in fact, adjacent coplanar faces wouldn't match up with alignment either AND once you reload the map, the faces would go back to the old broken alignment. I can't figure out what particular circumstances causes that though.
I'm using Tyrann's:
http://www.disenchant.net/ With -oldaxis but haven't run into the problems you describe, since I turned it on. So help me out please? How do I configure a custom entity so that I can rotate the entity in the editor? I've been bashing on the FGD and whatever else and I can't figure out what allows some entities to rotate (like players and monsters).
I have this: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/161473/MDLBugs/2014-10-04%2015_41_57-wip.map_.jpg And the FGD looks like this: @PointClass base(Appearflags) size(-2 -14 -40, 22 14 16) color(255 255 255) model(":progs/decoring.mdl") = deco_ring : "Iron Deco Ring" [ ] I can't rotate the entity in Trenchbroom. It ignores me. And I don't understand why. :-/ Is it obvious? Ha, nice
I remembered it being submitted as a feature request but what's the status on adding a 2dview and grid?
Progress is currently slow due to real life obligations. That is all ;-)
This may be useful to users of the editor;
http://www.quaketastic.com/files/helper.mdl It's just a scaled up and reskinned version of Sock's voreball, colour coded to match the various entity types. This means you can turn off 'bounds' in the model view to make your screen less cluttered. You will need to add this; model(":progs/helper.mdl" 0) To the various entries in your I'd share my fgd but its got modded entities inside and I can't be arsed cleaning them out. Updates have been slow recently, so before people get worried I thought I'd give a small status update. TrenchBroom 2 has been progressing nicely in the past months until the point where I started to integrate a new feature for layers and groups into the editor.
It turns out that the internal structure I had for representing maps did not lend itself well to this particular extension, so I had to change it significantly. This of course rippled into basically every other part of the editor, and I'm working on adapting all other parts of it to these changes. Progress on this has been a bit slower in the past two weeks as I am quite busy with real life stuff, too. But I'm still working on it, and it's going forward. I'll start pushing new builds as soon as the editor is back in a usable state. Great to hear it's still moving forward. I'm just grateful that people find any time to work on projects like this.
I think we all understand that real-life gets in the way a lot more than for example 13 years ago... when I was living at home, playing Q1SPs while mum makes me din dins. The cool thing about Trenchbroom though, is that it's making mapping so much easier, it seems to be combatting lot of mappers real-life time constraints, and therefore caused a resurgence in Q1SP releases! So keep up the good work, it's very much appreciated. I wish I had started with TB a couple of years earlier when I was still a student. Oh, the time I could have sunk into it then. Now, it's just the odd couple of hours here and there.
Thanks for the encouraging words! Haha, seriously
Not really touched the editor for longer than 5 mins while I got a new girlfriend. I have a crazy mapping itch needing to be scratched
Didn't realize there was a newer thread for TB and posted in another, but here is my issue compiling on Linux. I have finally gotten to the point where it almost compiles, but now craps out with 4 g++ errors ; http://pastie.org/9726329
It might be a simple error on my part or obvious to someone more knowledgeable than I. Any help appreciated. When I attempted using latest wx src 3.0.2 its still failed, but a whole different way. http://forums.inside3d.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5142&start=75#p55021
Pet peeve:
"wad" "C:\new\new.wad" or worse: "wad" "C:\new\" (found in at least one map) C:<NEW LINE>ew<NEW LINE>ew.wad makes no sense, and the other one: C:<NEW LINE>ew"<UNTERMINATED STRING CONSTANT> will just corrupt the world entity and everything that comes after it. Seeing as most tools take significant shortcuts and don't parse things properly, can you at least ensure that wad paths are written out with / instead of \ or \\, so as to ensure maximum compatibility with existing tools, without outputting unsupportable gibberish please? The alternative is to ban \n and \" etc, but this issue interacts with saved games, but making special cases for parsing wad values, or special cases for saved games vs initial load is annoying and clumsy. / works fine in the core windows api, but may be rejected by microsoft's commandline tools.
\\ will generally work, but might cause problems with things that do try sanitising things (poorly). / is a single char \\ isn't usable at the start of a relative path (unc shares), and is thus potentially dangerous in windows (if poorly sanitised, // is identically dangerous). / is portable \\ is not (poorly sanitised, // is equivelent to /../ on amiga and thus unsafe). so yeah, / is preferable to \\ or \ but hey, \\ is at least a correct C string, and acceptable as-is for most of the windows api. But not for absolute paths. TB supports both. So I think I'll use the escaped version with \\ on Windows.
as far as windows and the C api is concerned, / is as portable as \
leading \\ (or //) will be interpreted as a unc path if the tool doesn't de-markup the string (hurrah for lazy parsing), so be sure to use / instead of \\ if its the first char of a drive-relative path, even in windows. So are there any plans/chance for Hexen 2 support?
I have a couple of mapping ideas I want to try out for it but I'm sick of the editors I used to use so i go and make some terrain looks fine in the editor and compile it looks fine in game
then i load my map back up in the editor and some of the terrain vertex points are off by one unit or more which is impossible to fix sometimes without making the terrain again and hoping it will be trenchbroom valid yet when i load the map up in hammer those vertex points arent messed up running trenchbroom.exe with compatibility mode for any OS fixes it idk why but it does
You do tend to see vertices wander off grid over time. I think a fix was suggested but not sure if it was implemented
But if you keep your plane points on the grid and don't build too complex brushes, the errors will be small enough to ignore.
i wasnt even making anything complex just some raised or inverted brushes and they were going off grid until i set compatibility mode
and the problem doesnt occur on my win 8.1 x64-bit computer if i dont set compatibility mode only on this computer which is win 7 x64-bit so maybe its OS based https://www.dropbox.com/s/01zqjoe1komd5nn/good.map?dl=0
In Mac OS, if I double-click this map in the Finder to open it in TB (latest 1.1 build), look at the brushes, then quit the TB application and repeat, the map will look different each time: sometimes there's vertex drift (with different amounts/directions), sometimes not. https://www.dropbox.com/s/d6ue7uurj84882n/good1.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/326ujizx92fqq1k/good2.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/27ud4h7527qkcyc/good3.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/ivcl33lewk0w4kg/good4.png?dl=0 On the latest Windows TB1.1 build, it seems to always open with no vertex drift; but if I open the map, go to File -> New, then open it again, it has vertex drift then. https://www.dropbox.com/s/w5dur8zisoj3wlm/windows_not_drifted.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/npor518z96rh3lz/windows_drifted.png?dl=0 Here is what I got when saving the drifted version in Windows: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nc9x7iwznrbyo2j/windows_drifted.map?dl=0 It's pretty weird, I might see if I can debug what's going on. Maybe memory corruption somewhere? I opened good.map in TB2 a few times and it looks OK. Also when I load and save good.map in TB2, the saved file is the same as the original (ignoring the order of the faces) which is good.
Well, I ran TB1 in Valgrind and it reported that while loading my test map, Face::Face(worldBounds, forceIntegerFacePoints, point1, point, point2, textureName) was using an uninitialized value, m_forceIntegerFacePoints. If I stick in a m_forceIntegerFacePoints = false/true; there, my map reliably loads correctly/drifted, and the valgrind warning disappears. Will post a PR on github.
I think that can explain the weirdness a lot of people had, since it would mean every time a map loads, each face had a chance of being snapped to have integer face points. How did you get it to ignore all the warnings from within wxwidgets? When I tried it, I got so many that I couldn't find those which originated in my own code.
I didn't do anything special; there were only 10 or so from wxWidgets as the application started, but none after that. I was using wx 2.9.5 and followed your instructions in Linux/Build.txt.
Changes
- Enable texture names starting with '{' (ericw) - Fix hang when adding multiple updating entity targets (ericw, necros) - Simplify build instructions (ericw) - Fix vertex drift on map load (ericw) - Fix crash with colors in byte format (ericw) - Add option to invert zoom direction when using Alt+MMB (kduske) Download: http://kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/downloads.php Thanks to ericw for the fixes! Danget Trenchbroom 1 needs the vertex snap to grid option from 2 :)
Right now I bounce between the 2 for map diagnostic bug hunting. So easy to find brushes that have verts not snapped to the grid. But this is a nice fix! it seems when i try to copy paste somewhat complex geometry mostly arches by ctrl+c then ctrl+v the vertex points go off grid with a result like this http://i.imgur.com/jnIWPlv.png when it should look like this http://i.imgur.com/uYS3vGX.png
this issue happens on both my computers win 8.1 x64-bit and win 7 x64-bit it doesnt happen when ctrl+d cloning the issue is made worse if i turn the grid off the issue doesnt happen in the previous version of trenchbroom being 1.1.1_368 Thewaz154... what mod is that? I see a bunch of additional corpse deco meshes :)
Which makes me ask the question... where are the wall corpses as place able objects for quake1? @thewaz154, thanks for the report, I think I fixed the copy/paste bug. I need to check with SleepwalkR but there will be an updated build at some point.
@Skiffy, The corpses in id1 are monster_zombie with 'spawnflags' '1'. In TB you can just enable the "Crucified" checkbox to set the spawnflag. For a wider variety, check out Quoth. in TB1, go to Edit -> Map Properties, then select the Quoth2.fgd in the first popup and the 'quoth' directory in the second (you'll need quoth installed.) Then you should see all the corpses in the TB entity palette. re-creation
#1. load trenchbroom and open a map with a decent amount of stuff in it and dont do anything yet #2. go to face texture browser, pick a texture, and then create a brush #3. re-size, clone, or copypaste that brush #4. watch as trenchbroom crashes :c this issue can be bypassed by moving, re-sizing, or cloning and already existing world brush and it wont happen for the rest of the session but its a bit annoying to have to do that every time i open my map up again moving, cloning, or editing non brush entities doesnt bypass this Changes
- Fix vertex precision problems when copy/pasting brushes (ericw) Download: http://kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/downloads.php Ok that is weird. Now for some reason my Virus protection software thinks TB is an evil thing and kills it after a second or so.
I built it on my Windows 7 virtual machine - maybe it's infected? What does your scanner say is specifically wrong with it?
It just removes it outright without telling me at the moment. The current scanner I have expired. So it scans and does all the usual but I cant check the logs...
without telling you anything about it, how do you know it's your virus scanner?
trendmicro HouseCall and windows defender don't find any viruses for me. maybe you can whitelist it with your scanner?
virustotal's static check was clean as well. Maybe the title is triggering some children protection mode? ;)
It also made it so that I could not extract the file from the zip into any folder anymore either. It just hates the file.... But I removed the virus scanner software and installed another one and now it works fine... also works fine at work. I dont know but my home PC virus protection freaked out and deleted the EXE and did not allow me to put it back. Was very strange.
It just goes sideways and never up or down... but this works for func doors normally... I don't get it. But it has the flag to move down first and then in a direction which I don't want. Needs to shift back then up or down... confusing
But there's a way around them: http://tomeofpreach.wordpress.com/2014/06/26/unusual-func_door_secret-angles/
is poor IMO
It should be done with a scale of 0-255 for each colour choice. That way when lighting is compiled you get smooth blends between colours. The angle determines the direction of the second move, the first move is always to the right of that unless you change the spawnflags.
Changes
- Fix crash when updating graphics resources (ericw) - Fix vertex drift issue leading to grid snapping problems (ericw) Download: http://www.kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/downloads.php "Fix vertex drift issue leading to grid snapping problems"
Tested, looks good so far.. this is one of the biggest problems I was having with TB1 (that seemed to be fixed in TB2), lots of brushes with crazy decimal values (like 63.989801 rather than 64 units, this usually happened with duplicating or copy and pasting) Hope that's the last of the drift bugs. For reference, there were different bugs depending on whether you used "force integer plane points" or not:
For maps with "force integer plane points" turned off: v1.1.2 fixed rounding brushes to integers when opening a map (with a random chance each brush would be rounded) v1.1.3 fixed copy & paste rounding to integers, when they shouldn't For maps with "force integer plane points" turned on: v1.1.4 fixed a bug where the editing tools (vertex editor, clip tool, copy/paste from other maps, etc) weren't rounding the results to integers when they should have. The next time you loaded the map, all brushes get rounded to integers, so the brushes with decimal coordinates would get messed up. now all trenchbroom needs is texture alignment like in hammer mostly for arches and or things like curved floor trims which is in trenchbroom 2.0 / 2.1???
an ability to create a 8,192 by 8,192 unit box because world size limitations which i found out the hard way and created a 8,192 box world centered in hammer after my map was all buggy <.< a prefab creation tool like hammers arch creation but also with spheres, spikes, and cylinders maybe a grid option which is also in trenchbroom 2.0 / 2.1??? not that i care for overview / side view grid like in hammer but an option would be nice for some and uhm.... hmmm.... i cant think of anything else just add those things and trenchbroom will be perfect What this, or Jackhammer, really need is a good prefab system. Like, a real one.
In Hammer, you can place instances of external MAP files into your level and they are copied in as if they are real brushes before compile time. This allows you to do neat things, like build a destroyed building sitting straight up and down but place an instance into your level rotated into position. So it's easy to work on but more interesting to play on/look at in the game itself. Just a thought. With these editors having damn near perfect texture lock these days, I'd say the time has come! Let the prefabs fly! A prefab browser in TB would be awesome. I think with TB especially though that SleepwalkR will probably be trying to keep as pure and simple as possible, quite often you find with editors that they continually add bloat. It gets to the point that unless you were from the beginning that the tools become extremely difficult to learn, this isn't so with TB.
Hammer has an entity called func_instance. You place it and then use the file browser to point it at a MAP file. It then shows a preview of that MAP file in the level itself but you can't edit it - just move it and rotate it. To edit, you double click the entity and it opens a new editor with that external MAP file in it.
IT'S SO GOOD. TB 2 will have proper groups that can also contain entities. From there it's a small step to having instance support.
Any chance of getting this for the original? Right now the color picker always goes float and some compilers do not like them.
For now I just type them in manually. afaik, all light utilities will deal with 0-255 or 0-1 colour values automatically.
and I get some weirdness unless colours are 0-255. Colours don't blend properly with 0-1 values and sometimes the colour will be too diluted.
well... don't know what to say. your compiler is bugging out somehow. I have always used 0-1 for my colour values and have never had any troubles.
maybe it would be better if you could provide examples of colours not 'blending properly'; eg: screenshot comparisons.
There is a bug in tyrlight it seems.
If you do not have a delay key set, using a _color on a light of 0-1 will not be scaled to 0-255, and end up appearing white. Excuse this dark screenshot despite the brightness cranked, but here's an example. The upper two lights are "_color" "1 0 0" "light" "100" and the bottom are "_color" "255 0 0" "light" "100" : http://scampie.net/etc/light_test1.jpg If there is a delay key, it will work fine. These are the same lights as above, except with "delay" "2": http://scampie.net/etc/light_test2.jpg very odd. same set up as before, except ONLY the upper right light has "delay" "2" (this is a light with "_color" "1 0 0")
http://scampie.net/etc/light_test3.jpg It's like only the most intense areas of a 0-1 color light will get correct coloring without any delay settings. I believe that is latest, I originally saw this in ericw's dirtmap version as well though.
Actually, fuck those previous screenshots, blending of multiple lights was playing tricks.
delay doesn't seem to be the culprit, it just doesn't scale 0-1 _color lights right. http://scampie.net/etc/color_tyrlightno.jpg http://scampie.net/etc/color_tyrlight1.jpg http://scampie.net/etc/color_tyrlight2.jpg http://scampie.net/etc/color_tyrlight3.jpg http://scampie.net/etc/color_tyrlight5.jpg The values with bright red in the middle and then quickly falling off to white suggests that maybe it does scale 0-1 up to 0-255, but then the falloff isn't being scaled up to the correct color values? checking the tyrutils code, I don't see any special support for 0-1, so that explains why it never worked. It should be easy to add.
But I can't seem to reproduce this weird result you got here, with the inner red spot and white on the outside. http://scampie.net/etc/color_tyrlight2.jpg This is my light: { "spawnflags" "0" "classname" "light" "origin" "816 288 -872" "_color" "1 0 0" "light" "300" "angle" "-0" "delay" "2" } I get a very small, dark red spot. (with r_lightmap 1) https://www.dropbox.com/s/2brna493qbqns6g/spasm0001.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/u64j92r372esz4y/spasm0000.png?dl=0 (lit up with a rocket) This is also with the dirtmap version, but 0.13 looks the same. {
"classname" "light" "origin" "240 128 128" "light" "300" "_color" "1 0 0" "delay" "2" } is mine... so the same. http://scampie.net/files/colortest.zip Is my Could it possibly be a strange Mac vs Windows thing? I am on Windows I put your colortest.bsp/lit in my id1/maps folder, loaded it in fitz085 and quakespasm, and it looks normal (small red light on the left, large red light on the right) - no white halo on the left side. Maybe something weird with your quake setup?
very weird.
It appears to be a difference between Fitz MarkV, which I was using to test, and QuakeSpasm. Here's shots with r_lightmap 1 MarkV QuakeSpasm many engines match rgb lighting intensities to the luminance values from the bsp as a cheat-prevention mechanism.
so intensity comes from the bsp, colouration comes from the lit. it also helps for certain dodgy lit files, where a different tool+algorithm was used to generate lits from the one used to originally light the map without editing the bsp itself. Its a shame that brightness, radius, and colour are not separate settings. I guess it depends upon the light tool used. I see.. so here is scampie's
http://i.imgur.com/7HUpmYj.jpg If you crank the brightness there is a small red light on the left. Given that tyrlight doesn't yet have special support for 0-1 colors, this is the correct rendering ("1 0 0" meaning a very very dark red). With the lit file deleted, I get this: http://i.imgur.com/La0kH8r.jpg So the lightmap that tyrutils is saving to the no clue what the data looks like when it's read into the engine. the only thing that is actually important here is that no matter what value is used, 0-255 or 0-1, it should work exactly the same. eg: '255 0 128' is '1.0 0.0 0.5'
Yeah, it looks like the issues are two pronged.
1) Tyrlight does not recognize 0.0 - 1.0 values of _color correctly. Should just be an easy case of checking all 3 values are between 0 and 1 and if so, multiplying them by 255 to be the format Tyrlight expects? 2) Tyrlight does not account for the brightness of colored lighting when creating the Thanks for helping isolate those, Scampie.
I sent a patch for 1) to Tyrann. I'll post an updated test build with the -dirt flag plus 0-1 color support. 2) is probably not that hard to fix, but I'm inclined not to mess with it unless it comes up in a realistic situation. is it possible to have snow / rain particles in your map with brush entities / entities that i assume require the equivalent of smartedit attributes in hammer?
A mod to do that. There have been a few that add such features but in general they all bring along a load of crap that you don't need, or the effect is poorly done.
The extras/r4 mod added a lot of handy features and wasn't bloated with assets, maybe you could check that out. It'll be somewhere in here: http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2/ That's basically a collection of all the old mods going back since the early days. If you don't care about anything else, rip out the gorgeous snow from dpmod and force your players to use Darkplaces.
Hello Quakers!
Q2Cafe is proud to announce the 10th Mapping Contest that will be hosted at http://leray.proboards.com. This is the big 10 so we're planning something memorable. There's no pressure to construct superb works of art, unless of course you want to, and we're also pretty flexible with the dates to accommodate new mappers and beginners alike. We're also looking for people to help rate and judge the maps, so if that's more up your alley we'd love to have you too! The past events were all smash hits that rewarded the community with awesome new maps, and we don't see that changing this time. We're looking for new talent as well as Pros, either way all sorts of contributions are welcome. Most importantly this contest is about the fun experience and group activity that will enrich and expand our playing field. We would hate for any capable mappers to miss out on this exciting event, which will surely stimulate everyone's imagination for years to come! And just imagine what you can make with an awesome editor like TrenchBroom. All entries are welcome, big or small, they will all help make this Mapping Contest a success. So please stop by Q2 Cafe today, and join the Contest: http://leray.proboards.com/board/81/10th-mapping-contest http://www.netdoo.com/wodx/mapping-contest.jpg Regards, Null (aka Level Lord) http://leray.proboards.com I am constantly making progress, but there are still a few features missing. At least I can count them on one hand now though.
Excellent. I can't wait for the 2dview. Like I said in the email, let me know if I can help with testing or whatever :)
How Much Use Do You Have For A Second One?
a) it's a spare b) otherwise you'd lean to one side when you walked I'm running it on a Surface Pro Laptop. Before that I ran it on an old Dell Laptop that was probably about 4 or 5 years old when TB came out.
Dell Lattitude D410
Windows XP Pro 2002 Installed the C++ thing also (from above) It says "Trenchbroom has encoutered a problem and needs to close" It's a Microsoft message dialog. Any clues anyone? unfortunately, the dell specs say it has an intel GMA 900, which doesn't support the OpenGL 2.1 required by TB :-(
It works on my other machine, I was just trying to make it portable so i could get more work done. :) Appreciate your help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUbk98uZjso
Romero is talking about making levels again and he mentions Trenchbroom around the 10 minute mark. <3 Totally would not mind seeing a modern Quake Romero level. Perhaps we could sacrifice czg to win Romero's favor?
Totally would not mind seeing a modern Quake Romero level. Perhaps we could sacrifice czg to win Romero's favor?
i'm totally wouldn't sacrifice czg in favor of JR but i'd love to see the "modern" quake map from Romero Geez i guess he's completely forgot how to use an editor I think that would be a huge mistake, actually. The hype surrounding it and the inevitable let down when it doesn't deliver the second coming of Christ would be unfortunate.
Holy shit that was cool.
I was half-expecting one of the examples to be a curved brush (like the 2d-shaper). To be fair though I am super impressed as it is. It is very reminiscent of, I imagine, how you would edit a level in doom. I bet if you tweeted this to romero he would literally jizz in his pants.
rebb, you're right. This has been on my todo list for a long time. Finally gotten around to doing it so that people don't used to the old way of creating brushes when TB2 is done. You can still create simple cuboids in the 2D views though.
not surprised, but very impressed. slick implementation! needs some lasers though, but yeah, awesome.
I am not sure who but one of SleepwalkR and Romero made the other his bitch: https://twitter.com/romero/status/573359931274866688
Cant wait till this is out! Those new brush tools look stellar! Keep up the mad work SleepwalkR!
So, I've just installed TB again on my Linux system (Linux Mint) after a break of several months, using (as before) this guide: http://andyp123.blogspot.de/2013/03/running-trenchbroom-quake-editor-on.html
Said guide works perfectly, but I understand nothing of it (I just follow the instructions and Ctrl+C & Ctrl+V the commands, but have no idea what any of them really do). Keeping in mind how utterly tech un-savvy I am, would someone be so kind as to explain how I can switch from what I have now (TB version 1.2.0 Build 460, according to Help --> About) to TB2? (I know it is still unfinished and probably buggy, but so is TB1 on my system -- and if I were to use TB2, I could maybe give SleepwalkR some meaningful feedback, as opposed to complaining about a version of TB that is no longer going to be updated...) Thanks in advance, and thanks again to SleepwalkR for creating and constantly improving TrenchBroom! (By the way, is this the right thread, or should this go in Mapping Help?) Feedback for the linux version of TB2 would be very appreciated, as it's practically untested right now. It does build and run, but that's all I have tested.
You need to compile it yourself. First you need to get the sources using git. Open the terminal and cd into some directory under which you want to have the sources. An example would be the ~/Documents directory. You do not need to create a sub directory for the sources, git will do this for you. Make sure you have git installed: sudo apt-get install git Then clone the sources: git clone https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom.git This will create a directory named "TrenchBroom" under your current directory, so if you did cd into ~/Documents, the sources will be in ~/Documents/TrenchBroom. cd into that directory. Now you have to switch to the branch that contains the actual sources for TB2. You are currently on the master branch, which contains the TB1 sources. git checkout develop It should answer with a message such as this: Branch develop set up to track remote branch develop from origin. Switched to a new branch 'develop' To ensure you're on the right branch, issue the "git status" command: git status It should answer with a message such as this: On branch develop Your branch is up-to-date with 'origin/develop'. nothing to commit, working directory clean Now read the build instructions in the Build.txt file and follow them. If you run into any problems, report back. Thank you for the quick and detailed response, SleepwalkR. However, I am possibly even more of a layperson than you assume...
I have already installed TB using the guide I linked to in my previous post (similar to your instructions, but even more detailed), so I am skipping ahead to this part of your instructions: Now you have to switch to the branch that contains the actual sources for TB2. You are currently on the master branch, which contains the TB1 sources. git checkout develop When I do that, I get the following: error: Your local changes to the following files would be overwritten by checkout: Linux/BuildNo Please, commit your changes or stash them before you can switch branches. Aborting Help? Please keep in mind I have no idea what it means to commit or stash changes or how to do so. This entire git thing is a mystery to me... or if you want to save bandwidth: git reset --hard
But be aware that this might delete stuff depending what you put inside the directories. I just built and when I clicked through the options the shortcuts had a conflict (Ctrl-I was assigned twice). Would be nice if the default building would exclude the tests, it took long enough already. :o) As Spirit said, please just follow my instructions and don't skip.
Spirit, yes, agreed. Thanks, sorry -- didn't realise I was being an idiot. :-/ Am following the instructions word for word now. It's taking a while. Will report back whether successful or unsuccessful.
I get the following if I try to run
cmake or cmake as per Build.txt: cmake -- Build type Release -- Using static wxWidgets library -- Could NOT find FreeImage (missing: FREEIMAGE_LIBRARY FREEIMAGE_INCLUDE_PATH) -- Compiler is GNU CMake Error: The following variables are used in this project, but they are set to NOTFOUND. Please set them or make sure they are set and tested correctly in the CMake files: FREEIMAGE_LIBRARY (ADVANCED) linked by target "TrenchBroom" in directory /home/totalnewbie/Desktop/TB2/TrenchBroom linked by target "TrenchBroom-Test" in directory /home/totalnewbie/Desktop/TB2/TrenchBroom -- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred! See also "/home/totalnewbie/Desktop/TB2/TrenchBroom/build/CMakeFiles/CMakeOutput.log". Thanks for the response, SleepwalkR! I ran the above command and it installed libfreeimage-dev. I guess I must have accidentally not installed it initially -- no idea how I missed that step (since I seem to have done everything else).
I'm running the cmake --build Sorry for the stupid questions and mistakes. I am just so out of my depth -- I feel like a drunken elephant that someone is patiently trying to teach to shuffle cards. Or something. As in, no matter how good the instructions and how patient the instructor, I am bound to screw something up anyway. I just crashed the TB1 renderer alt-tabbing from Quakespasm, and got this:
http://www.quaketastic.com/files/TB666.PNG Also, TN - this is how everyone starts. Don't be scared of making mistakes; that's how you learn. Hehe, I am actually planning a name update at some point (once I finally release something*), albeit in a slightly different direction
*That's going to be a while still, at the rate I'm going (currently aiming to break a six month hiatus And thanks very much for the kind words of encouragement in your second post, ijed. Thank you for your help, SleepwalkR. I seem to have a working (or at least semi-working) TB2 installation now.
It looks very snazzy, but map entities oddly appear as solid coloured blocks, the measurements of my brushes are not shown (an issue I had with TB1 as well) and I had the same issue Spirit mentioned above (Ctrl+I is assigned to both Controls>Edit>Select Inside and Isolate Objects TB2 also did not recognise that an old usually means you need to locate your quake folder to see them. Probably will make your old maps work too
Thanks for the explanation. In the mean time, though, I pointed TB2 towards TrenchBroom/build/Resources/games/Quake/ and now it does not allow me to change it again (e.g. to my id1 folder); the path now seems set in stone, even when I close and re-open TB. My entities are still blocks.
Oddly, the Ctrl+I key conflict keeps coming back, even though I keep fixing it (as TB2 keeps ordering me to do). I have changed the default key binding for Select Inside so the conflict should be gone now. You can update your sources like so:
git pull Then rebuild, just like before cmake --build As for the missing models, you have to point TB2 to the directory where you have installed Quake, not to it's own Resource folder. But it seems that there's trouble with overwriting the preference settings on your machine. It works on my Ubuntu VM, but I'll check with my Linux Mint VM when I get the chance. Rebuilding TB2 now. Do you want me to report these things on the issue tracker, SleepwalkR? Or should I post here first?
Since I know so little, I am not always sure how to distinguish between real issues and my own lack of knowledge and experience. So far, I am having some problems with the clip and vertex manipulation tools -- they both tend to crash the programme (the latter is an ongoing problem for me in TB1 as well). Steps to reproduce: select a brush/brushes --> try to clip or drag vertices around --> TB quits suddenly and without warning.
Then, don't know if I'm missing something, but as noted above, I don't see the measurements of my brushes (which is a problem for me in TB1 as well). In TB1, the measurements would still display in a brand-new map, but upon closing and re-opening a saved see measurements (even in a brand-new The key conflict is of course now resolved, but I still cannot change the path to Quake I had previously erroneously specified (I know you're aware of this; just putting it here for completeness's sake). Just some comments and a possible suggestion: The new system for creating brushes had me stumped for a while, but now that I see how it works it seems really nice. Need to play around with it a bit more to get the hang of it and unlearn my TB1 habits, but I do think this is a great development. I have so often accidentally created brushes in TB1; this will give the mapper a lot more control, I think. Is the new 2d pane (which is something I had been waiting for) fully functional yet? Maybe this is obvious to people with prior experience in 2d-view editors, but I can't seem to figure out how to move and flip things around in 2d, e.g. to switch from top-down to side view. What I can do is move the top-down view in the 2d pane up, down and side-to-side using the right mouse button -- which is what the centre button/mouse wheel does in the 3d pane. Intuitively, I would expect the same to be the case in the 2d pane. Would it not make sense to have similar behaviour in both panes? (This is currently the case with mouse-wheel zooming -- it works the same in 3d and 2d.) Perhaps there is a very good reason it works the way it does; my apologies if this is a useless suggestion. for the bug reports. I have created two issues on the issue tracker:
https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/1007 https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/1007 If you have a github account (they're free), you can subscribe to these issues and be notified when they are resolved. As for your other suggestions: To cycle the different 2D views, you can hit the Tab key. Furthermore, you can go to the View preferences and choose a different layout. I have opted to use the right mouse button for panning the 2D views because the third button is often the mouse wheel, which is a lot more difficult to press and hold. 17.1 'Rebecca' 32 bit Xfce is what I am currently using.
Thanks very much for your response, including your explanation of how the 2d pane works. I'm guessing there is no documentation for TB2 yet, right? Just in case I am asking about things on which I should be reading up elsewhere... As for the brush measurements (i.e. the length in units of side), am I missing something? I know that in TB1 the fact that these measurements disappear upon reloading a saved (The absence of visible measurements in TB1 on Linux is one of the reasons I find it very frustrating to use at times. I have to physically count grid squares all the time. Probably good practice for basic addition and multiplication, but makes for slow mapping, particularly when e.g. setting up a lift or moving platform and trying to calculate where it should be placed and how far it should move.) Thank you again for your patience in explaining things to a complete layperson. Forgot to mention the brush measurements: This is currently missing and will be implemented soon. Probably even tonight.
The fact that the measurements disappear in TB1 is in fact a bug, but then TB1 never worked well under Linux anyway. Probably even tonight
Yay, thank you! Am looking forward to it. Not sure how far I'll get for the time being without being able to clip, but I can't wait to start using TB2 more and more and being able to move on from TB1 altogether (which, as you said, doesn't really work as it should on Linux). And thanks for devoting your time to the Linux version of TB2; it is much appreciated. Two more issues:
1) Ok, opened a brand new map (or "document", as per TB2's terminology) with both a 3d and 2 pane. For some reason I could only draw a brush in the 2d pane, and not in the 3d pane (the programme would not let me). (By the way, is TB2 supposed to start with no brushes, unlike TB1, which starts up with a basic block already drawn?) 2) Then I wondered why no grid was visible, except on the brush itself in the 3d pane. So I went to View > Grid > Show Grid, and saw that it was already checked. When I unchecked it, I got this psychedelic effect. Note that the TV-type noise in the 2d pane moves and changes when you move the cursor about. It even changed colour when I took another screenshot. Errr... Only works on other brushes. You have to create some initial brushes as references. And yes, TB2 will come with a simple room map by default, but that's still to be done.
The grid issue is probably a shader bug. I'll create a new issue for it. to see if the measurements have been implemented. Don't know if this was the wrong time to do so, but I got this error message right at the end:
[ 16%] Building CXX object CMakeFiles/TrenchBroom.dir/common/src/Assets/EntityModelManager.cpp.o Linking CXX executable TrenchBroom CMakeFiles/TrenchBroom.dir/common/src/View/MapView3D.cpp.o: In function `TrenchBroom::View::MapView3D::doRenderMap(TrenchBroom::Renderer::MapRenderer&, TrenchBroom::Renderer::RenderContext&, TrenchBroom::Renderer::RenderBatch&)': MapView3D.cpp:(.text+0xf01): undefined reference to `TrenchBroom::Renderer::SelectionBoundsRenderer::SelectionBoundsRenderer(BBox<double, 3u> const&)' MapView3D.cpp:(.text+0xf0e): undefined reference to `TrenchBroom::Renderer::SelectionBoundsRenderer::render(TrenchBroom::Renderer::RenderContext&, TrenchBroom::Renderer::RenderBatch&)' CMakeFiles/TrenchBroom.dir/common/src/View/MapView2D.cpp.o: In function `TrenchBroom::View::MapView2D::doRenderMap(TrenchBroom::Renderer::MapRenderer&, TrenchBroom::Renderer::RenderContext&, TrenchBroom::Renderer::RenderBatch&)': MapView2D.cpp:(.text+0x78b): undefined reference to `TrenchBroom::Renderer::SelectionBoundsRenderer::SelectionBoundsRenderer(BBox<double, 3u> const&)' MapView2D.cpp:(.text+0x798): undefined reference to `TrenchBroom::Renderer::SelectionBoundsRenderer::render(TrenchBroom::Renderer::RenderContext&, TrenchBroom::Renderer::RenderBatch&)' collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status make[2]: *** [TrenchBroom] Error 1 make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/TrenchBroom.dir/all] Error 2 make: *** [all] Error 2 You have to refresh your build files. Before you do build, issue this command when inside your build directory:
cmake You should always do this when you update your sources. I did not know that. So I always have to do
git pull then cmake and then cmake --build Anyway, that is what I did now, and it worked. I have another question/sort of bug report: I was working on a map (which I had started a long time ago) in TB1 earlier today, and actually making some progress, but then when I closed the programme and tried to save my map, something went wrong. I got some sort of error message, which sadly I cannot remember, and I did not think to take a screenshot of it. Anyway, when I now try to open the saved map file with TB1, it opens, but I just get a blank screen, as if it were an empty map with no brushes or anything. When I try to open it with TB2, I get this error message: Line 14013, column 3 - Expected integer or decimal, but got string As an aside, weird things were happening in TB1 earlier too. There's this arch I had built (similar to the arches in Honey or in the Honey Map Jam) made up of 5 brushes and which I am using a few times in the map -- yet today when I copied and pasted it in place to drag elsewhere (Ctrl+C; Ctrl+Shift+V), the brushes in the copy of the arch were all slightly (like ~ one grid unit) bigger than the original. It was a very subtle change that I did not notice at first; I only noticed it when I could not line the arch up correctly once I had dragged it somewhere else in the map. It was after fiddling with the arches to get them back to their original shape that TB1 refused to save my map correctly, after which neither TB1 nor TB2 seem able to open it. I know you're no longer working on TB1 for Linux, but I thought this information might be relevant. (By the way: as far as I can tell, all my brushes were on grid, but TB1 seemed to shift things off grid when I copied and pasted. I could be wrong, but that's they way things looked to me.) Just tried to copy and paste the same arch (from an earlier save of the map) in TB2, and even weirder things happened: although I had selected all 5 brushes, only 3 were copied and the programme warped all of the brushes in bizarre ways -- some were slightly shorter and some slightly longer, including the ones that were not copied (as in, the originals are now different).
It sounds like line 14013 of your map got corrupted somehow. Try going to that line in a text editor. With any luck, you can just delete that one corrupted brush - the brush is the sequence of lines surrounded in curly braces: { } - and it will fix the problem. It would be interesting to see what was on line 14013 that was causing the problem.
TB 1.1.4 released this January fixed a bunch of "vertex drift" bugs, including one affecting copy/paste. Since you'll be building from source, these fixes are in the "master" branch. I'd suggest the least error-prone thing to do is just make another git checkout for TB1.x, e.g. to checkout into a directory called tb1, do: git clone https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom.git tb1 Do you mean that I should open a terminal in the directory where I have TB1 installed and type git clone https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom.git tb1?
This was on line 14013: ( 16,46453094482421875 -71,0805511474609375 -7,2267894744873046875 ) ( 16,46453094482421875 -94,0805511474609375 203,7732086181640625 ) ( 657,46453857421875 106,9194488525390625 -327,226776123046875 ) city2_6 21 -17 150 1 -1 I deleted the brush in a text editor as you advised, but still have the exact same problem -- I get the exact same error message in TB2... I am guessing those long decimals are not healthy. Just looked in a text editor at a saved map file from before I played around with TB today, and none of my brushes ever looked like that...
I went back to the presumably corrupted file and there were several similar brushes with long decimals. I am guessing this means brushes that are off grid? That is bizarre, because I never drew my brushes off grid, and my old saved
Anyway, I tried finding all the wonky brushes in the text editor and deleting them, but still no luck... regarding tb1, I meant to run that command in your home directory, or wherever you prefer to keep source code, to get a fresh copy of the latest TB1 source. Then you can follow the instructions in Linux/Build.txt to build it.
line 14013: ah, that looks like a classic bug. Was that file last saved with TB1? I guess your OS is set to a locale that uses comma as the decimal separator, and TB1 was incorrectly using that in its For TB1, the long decimal coordinates are normal if "Force integer plane points" is unchecked in map properties.
Yes, it was saved in TB1. Thanks, I'll do a find&replace of the commas and then proceed with "Force integer plane points" checked from here onwards.
I still find it weird that TB (both TB1 and TB2) would just randomly shift my brushes around and reshape them. Surely that is a bug, right? Anyway, thanks again for your help. I'll report back, but need to sleep in the mean time... :) 1. Try to place entity; clicks it, Unhandled Exception. (Also another unhandled exception when trying to scroll menu)
2. On trying to use Vertex Tool, another group of 15+ Unhandled Exception errors 4. Upon trying to add texture wad, freezes and doesn't respond at all, forcing me to Task Manager and End Process Removed stupid insults and general idiotness from the quote :P This is TB 1 ofc but I've never had any of these unhandled exception errors. Sorry, I'm a little confused...
So there are these presumably outdated instructions on building TB1 http://andyp123.blogspot.de/2013/03/running-trenchbroom-quake-editor-on.html. I've followed them before, and that leaves me with TB1.2.0, build 460. Then there are the instructions SleepwalkR posted above for installing TB2, which worked (after I stopped being an idiot and followed the instructions more closely), but they're completely different from the instructions for TB1.2.0 on Andy's Blog. Now in the build.txt for TB1.1.4, it seems there is a different process again, and I'm not sure I understand exactly... The instructions in this build.txt end with 3. Code::Blocks - Get the latest version of the Code::Blocks IDE using the package manager. - Create a global variable named "WXWIN" in Code::Blocks. - Click Menu > Settings > Global Variables... - Click on the second "New" button (in the "Current Variable" row). - Enter "WXWIN" (without quotes) as the name for the new variable. - In the "Builtin fields" column, click the ".." button next to the first text field (labeled "base"). - In the Open file dialog, select the directory where you extracted the wxWidgets sources. - Optional: Go to Settings -> Compiler and Debugger... search for the Other settings tab: Set the number of processes for parallel builds to the number you'd like to use. Is that it? Isn't there something else I need to do? Do I switch to the guide on Andy's Blog at this stage? Or will that give me TB1.2.0 again, or break something? Sorry if these are stupid questions. I guess the TB1.x Linux/Build.txt is missing the step where you actually build it. The instructions on that blog under "Build the TrenchBroom project in Code::Blocks" should work fine. I glanced over the blog instructions and it looks like they should still work. Back in January I tested the Linux/Build.txt instructions from scratch and they work, though they may gloss over some details.
1.1.4 was the version number of the release, the code in master has version 1.2.0, I think, but the code is the same so you can ignore the version number difference. The important thing is to just have the master branch up to date by doing a fresh repository clone. I have fixed two bugs now: You can set the game path and it will be saved, and the same goes for other preferences, too.
doesn't appear to be working for me in the latest build of TB 2...
Also, how do I change the pivot to rotate brushes? Like in the pics I've seen of other mappers? Texture lock is currently broken in standard Quake maps.
You can change the pivot by dragging the center of the rotate handle. There's a little white ball that you can grab. Any clue how to do this? Since it needs a brush to start with right in TB2?
Thank you so much for the responses, ericw and SleepwalkR. Sorry for being slow to reply, but I was out of town for a couple of days.
I have fixed two bugs now: You can set the game path and it will be saved, and the same goes for other preferences, too. Fantastic; thank you very much. Will update my TB2 install soon. the code in master has version 1.2.0, I think, but the code is the same so you can ignore the version number difference. The important thing is to just have the master branch up to date by doing a fresh repository clone. Err, I am embarrassed to say I understood little to nothing of this. I am afraid the limits of my current knowledge are very quickly reached... And then nothing
Does Nothing. Its a white background and then I drag white lines? I cant tell what I am doing. :( So this is me opening TB2 latest build. I then make sure to have the background mid grey. And then I press B to go into brush mode and because the map is empty you cant draw brushes. I think this tool needs to also just work in the void near the camera z-height in-case you do start with a blank map or don't want to always have a bsp block to draw on.
Thanks for your help, but I'm still confused re: versions 1.1.4 and 1.2.0. Unless I'm misunderstanding something (which is likely!) your instructions are exactly the same as those on Andy's blog, so the version of TB1 have should already be the latest version
I don't understand how I can update it further. Andy's blog says Note that if you installed the TrenchBroom source via Git, you can update to the latest version by opening a terminal in the folder you cloned TrenchBroom and running: git pull origin This will pull in all the changes up to the current version, and whilst it means you will have absolutely the most bleeding edge code When I do that, I just get the message Already up-to-date. Does that mean I have 1.1.4, despite what the programme itself tells me? Tried working with "Force integer plane points" checked, but TB1 still warps my brushes when I copy and paste them.
sorry for the confusing explanation.
If you build TB1 from the "master" branch in git (which is what you get if you do a "git clone", without further switching branches with "git checkout"), the number displayed in the about box will always be 1.2.0, so you can't use that to tell which version (1.1.3, 1.1.4) you have. If "git pull origin" prints "Already up-to-date." you should have the latest code. Tried working with "Force integer plane points" checked, but TB1 still warps my brushes when I copy and paste them. This should really not be happening, so I think something went wrong and you're still running an older version. Did you make sure to rebuild the executable in CodeBlocks? Note that the last change to TB1 was on Jan 9th. start your TB1 build, go the Help > About TrenchBroom and tell us which version you are running.
Thank you for the further explanation, ericw. It's a tiny bit clearer now, although I still don't entirely get it (I haven't really figured out in my head how git works and what it does. I don't have any programming/coding background, so I'm really just barely treading water here).
SleepwalkR: It says Version 1.2.0 Build 460. I installed it for the first time on this computer just a few days ago (at the beginning of April), so it should be the latest version anyway, right? As regards TB2 and the most recent bugfixes: I updated TB2 with git pull then cmake and then cmake --build as per your instructions (if I understood them correctly), but I still cannot change the Quake path which I set incorrectly before. I think you can find a hidden file in your home directory: ~/.Trenchbroom
In there you could edit the Quake Path manually as a workaround. Thanks, Spirit. I might try that, although perhaps SleepwalkR would prefer that I just report things that do not work as they should (seeing as there is a dearth of Linux beta testers)? Not that I'm necessarily the best person to test something like this.
On the other hand, if the idea is to make TB2 foolproof, then, well, I might be the right person to test it, as I am a fool. At the moment TB2 is not yet a viable alternative to TB1 for me anyway, as both the clip and vertex tools crash the programme for me (at least in TB1 it's just the vertex tool). But with the current warping brush weirdness, I'm not getting very far with TB1 either. :( I might have mentioned this before, but just in case I have not: when copying a selection of brushes together, the programme only copies some of the brushes.
Steps to reproduce: 1) Select three to five brushes using Ctrl+left click 2) Copy using Ctrl+C/Edit > copy 3) Paste using Ctrl+V/Edit > Paste (or Shift+Ctrl+V/Edit > Paste at original position) 4) One or two of the previously selected brushes are not copied & pasted actually.... i have been noticing some vertex dancing in TB1 lately. Some complex terrain I built last year with older versions of TB1 are now loading up slightly off in the new version. Not sure when it happened as at the time, I thought it had always been like that and I just forgot (since it was a year ago) but it keeps coming back even when I fix it.
I should spend more time on it to try to track down what's going on. I can have a look at that file if you want.
Skacky mentioned the same problem with his jam 5 map. I haven't been testing it that heavily, but 1.1.4 seems rock solid for me with stuff that used to drift on previous versions (arches, domes, etc.) This might be a dumb question but I see people talking about their experience with TB2 and am unable to find anywhere to download it. Was it only given to some people before it's final release or have I just not looked hard enough? Thanks for any help!
It still has too many bugs and a couple of missing features to be considered beta software.
FYI SleepwalkR after the recent fixes on the develop branch I was able to compile and it so far seems to work fine along with Fly mode and the shortcuts under Linux.
Hi, I've recently started to learn to use the map making tool Trenchbroom to create some quake 2 jumpmode maps. I don't seem to be able to find a way to add ladders and ice to a map. Does anyone have any idea how I could do it or if not who might know?
You have to change the properties of the surface of the texture. You can find them under the face viewer (for changing textures) there should be a box called "surface", click the "..." button and edit it, it's either that or the content
I can't see "surface" or "..." where you're suggesting they should be. Here's the print screen of what I can see. Am I missing something there or looking in the wrong place?
http://prntscr.com/6vbz7b (thanks for the response) It doesn't support Quake 2, so there is no way to edit surface and content flags.
that you're using a modified version of trenchbroom 1 to make quake 2 maps. My advice would be to ask at Q2 Cafe as that is where that version of TB originated -
http://leray.proboards.com/board/50/quake-mapping-central-re-mapper Yea, I am using the modified version of trenchbroom 1 to make quake 2 maps. I'll try that site, thank you.
I'm not sure I would call it closed or Beta as SleepwalkR himself above described it more of an Alpha. Some things are missing yet, there are bugs, and it can crash from time to time, but anyone who knows how to compile source code can compile TrenchBroom 2 from its sources available on the TrenchBroom github. There is the NewArchitecture branch which is slightly older code and the develop branch which is more current code of TB2. On Linux I'm using a build of both branches and the only time either crash occasionally for me is usually when I'm cutting brushes or manipulating vertex. As new code gets introduced and fixes implemented things can break, but all and all TB2 is a pretty good experience for me so far in its use with Quake mapping.
If you're not familiar with compiling projects from source or don't want to deal with issues that will come up from time to time then I'd just wait until there is an official TB2 release. The wait will be worth it. ^_^ It would be very useful if you could create bug reports for those crashes or if you could add your observations to the existing bug reports. I haven't been able to reproduce those crashes.
I have no doubt it will be worth the wait. I've been checking the progress for a while. I don't know how to compile but if there's a pre compiled windows 7 64 bit executable I would be more than willing to help test it.
I've been reporting the issues I come across all along, but the brush cut and vertex manipulation crashes are few and far between on Linux and Windows 7. They seem related to the previously reported issues. I need to "try" to reproduce it more than a few times before I can make a better observation to report on github.
I do have an observation I'm working on related to the recent fix for fly mode in the develop branch. The mouse look behaviour when navigating around the 3D view when "not" in fly mode has changed and not for the better. While not a bug I guess it is still annoying. I got side tracked tonight, but I'll put it up when I can in the next day or so. because of reasons. Anyway, am still stuck at the point where I tell TB2 where Quake is on my computer. It now allows me to change the path, but it doesn't seem to remember it. My entities still show up as coloured blocks, and when I open preferences, Hexen is selected and it tells me the game path is not set. When I select Quake and click Ok or Apply or both, it still goes back to Hexen/game path not set.
Also, maybe I've just got... err... stupider, but I cannot seem to import textures. Has this changed and can one now only do it from within "Texture collections" at the bottom righthand side, by clicking the "+"? If so, that is not working for me... Just reopened TB2, and now when I specify my Quake path, my entities do show up. The "Texture collections" thingy works now, too; no idea why it did not work a few minutes ago when I first fired up the programme...
Clipping finally works, but only sort of. When I want to clip a brush and select to keep both halves (using ctrl+enter until both halves are highlighted), it still deletes one of the two halves. The vertex tool still crashes the programme, although it now seems to freeze and cause the entire computer to hang before crashing. The copy+paste bug is still there too. When I want to copy+paste a selection of brushes, all is fine until I hit "paste", at which point TB2 automatically deselects some of the brushes, only pasting some of them. The copy+paste bug and the clipping tool's weird behaviour are both serious problems to me; everything else I can provisionally work around (though it would be wonderful to have a working vertex tool at some point), but these two problems make it impossible for me to make any mapping progress. So far I have not encountered the warping brushes issue again. All of this is on Linux Mint 17 'Qiana', Xfce 32 bit. TrenchBroom 2.0.0 5cfc5aOR (in case all those letters and numbers are important). Is there a setting in TB2 for making brush outlines sharper/more visible? By default, they kind of blend into the grid/textures (even when I select "render flat", they tend to blend into the grid). Makes it hard to see where my brushes are...
Stupid question, but is this a new feature in TB2? What is it for? It turns out it gives me a workaround for the copy+paste bug, but I am just curious as to what it was actually intended for.
in 3, 2, 1
Currently I have TB2 working on my Linux Mint computer, which I installed using SleepwalkR's instructions from earlier in this thread (sorry for the extensive quotation): You need to compile it yourself. First you need to get the sources using git. Open the terminal and cd into some directory under which you want to have the sources. An example would be the ~/Documents directory. You do not need to create a sub directory for the sources, git will do this for you. Make sure you have git installed: sudo apt-get install git Then clone the sources: git clone https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom.git This will create a directory named "TrenchBroom" under your current directory, so if you did cd into ~/Documents, the sources will be in ~/Documents/TrenchBroom. cd into that directory. Now you have to switch to the branch that contains the actual sources for TB2. You are currently on the master branch, which contains the TB1 sources. git checkout develop It should answer with a message such as this: Branch develop set up to track remote branch develop from origin. Switched to a new branch 'develop' To ensure you're on the right branch, issue the "git status" command: git status It should answer with a message such as this: On branch develop Your branch is up-to-date with 'origin/develop'. nothing to commit, working directory clean Now read the build instructions in the Build.txt file and follow them. If you run into any problems, report back. This is the only version of TB I have on this current setup; I have not installed TB1 on this computer since installing the OS. Now I would like to install TB1 (so that I can use it for things that do not currently work in TB2), but I am not sure how to go about it. I am scared of e.g. following the instruction on Andy's Blog and replacing things that are currently up-to-date with older things... or something (I cannot really articulate my fears more precisely as I have no real idea how any of this works). So given that I've done everything SleepwalkR describes in the post quoted above, what should I do to install TB1? PS: Sorry for the barrage of questions from me in this thread. I do try to figure things out for myself first, but end up just getting more and more confused... (PS: SleepwalkR, the grouping function is a brilliant addition! Thank you.) The build instructions for TB1 I found on github are very confusing to me compared to how easy it is to compile TB2 from git. I did attempt it months ago, but it gave me no joy.
Can I compile TB1 with cmake, or is it necessary to use Code::Blocks? And do I need to install an older version of wxWidgets than the one I used for TB2? Because those seem to be the two points where the build instructions for TB1 are different from TB2.
(I would really like to have TB1 on this system as well, because there are things I currently simply cannot do with TB2, such as precise clipping to create convex and concave shapes. My plan is to use both versions of the editor in the mean time, until the bugs in TB2 are fixed. Or is there something else that runs on Linux that I can use a complement to TB2 in the mean time?) SleepwalkR wrote earlier that you can do this with the Tab key, but either I've misunderstood something, or it is not working. When I have two panes open (a 3d pane and a 2d pane), then pressing Tab does not seem to do anything. I was expecting it to change the 2d view from top-down to side view and front view.
Have I misunderstood? Just looked at keyboard preferences, and it wasn't bound to Tab by default, but to Space. That works fine. Thanks for suggesting rebinding it; that steered me in the right direction.
Can I compile TB1 with cmake, or is it necessary to use Code::Blocks? And do I need to install an older version of wxWidgets than the one I used for TB2? Because those seem to be the two points where the build instructions for TB1 are different from TB2.
To compile TB1, you do need to use Code::Blocks and to use the older 2.9 version of wxWidgets, afaik. Note, the TB1 build instructions don't have you install wxWidgets 2.9, it's just downloaded, extracted, and compiled. I would follow all of the steps in an isolated directory like ~/tb1 so you don't mix up the copies of wxWidgets, but other than that it should be safe and not conflict with TB2. Hmmm... Not to get to far off the main thread topic, but on Linux I like to use TrenchBroom 2 compiled from the develop branch along with NetRadiant compiled from Xonotic's git.
Also on Linux I'm trying to like Jackhammer, but as great as it seems its TOO Hammer/Worldcraft for me. From my recent experiences swapping the same basic quake maps between TB2 and NetRadiant I've yet to see any ill effect from editing some part of the map in one and loading it back into the other editor. They seem to compliment each other very well. @total_newbie as long as you have the dependencies installed(read COMPILING) compiling NR is easy as inputting 3 lines into a terminal. git clone git://git.xonotic.org/xonotic/netradiant.git netradiant cd netradiant make See if that fills your need until TB2 alone is a bit better for you. I now prefer TB2 over all, but still like to use NR from time to time for making fast rocks or spheres with its brush tools or for working with a q3map. Will definitely give that a try soon. I can also see myself eventually switching to TB2 only, but this is the kind of interim solution I'm looking for.
Thank you very much, once again! Hey guys, just to let you know: I'm putting TrenchBroom development into hiatus for a couple of month. I have to finish my PhD thesis and TB2 distracts me too much. I'll pick it up again as soon as my thesis is submitted, which should happen in the fall.
I was hoping to release TB2 before this time, but unfortunately I didn't make it. I'll still be around and maybe I'll do a bit of work here and there, but there won't be a release until the fall, I'm afraid. I second that! lol. At least the TB2 develop branch functions pretty well in its current state. Good luck with the thesis.
Well, let's just say if I had put half the amount of work into my thesis that I put in TB2, I would have been finished in three years, not five ;-)
A very understandable decision. One request though, since I don't know anything about compiling. Could you put an installer up for the current version of TB2? That way we can already start playing with it :)
Or maybe someone else can make a Windows installler from the develop branch? If I publish the current state, then I would probably get a lot of issue reports and questions, drawing me back in. I'd rather not. Sorry.
I only recently found out about Trenchbroom and had been using qoole for most of my map making (eish misaligned brushes). Very nice to use overall with a few minor things to get used to. Current problem with lots of googling and I've found no answers. Sky brushes are not currently swallowing my rockets but I see this does work on Aerowalk. Is there an entity I need to apply or something? Thanks!
ericw fixed a couple of bugs and made a new release.
Changes - Fix crash during vertex manipulation (ericw) - Fix vertex drift issue when copy/pasting (ericw) - Fix for entity key/value corruption when renaming a key (ericw) - Add checkbox to filter detail brushes (ericw) - Work around modifier keys getting stuck (ericw) - Fix for some valid wad files being rejected (ericw) Download here! Any chance this will get fixed any time soon? kind of annoying to get that error noise every time you drag an entity into the 3d view
wasn't aware of that one; doesn't happen on my Windows 8 system. Mind posting an issue on github for it, or is there one already?
I have a windows 8 pc.
Everytime I drag from the entity window it brings up an abort/retry/fail message. I am sure it's a known issue. https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/664
Says something about a driver issue but it has persisted through every driver update I've had. Running an intel 4000 graphics chip on windows 8 I did some more work on getting to the bottom of
a) slightly-off-integer plane coordinates that you often get in TB1 with force integer mode OFF b) vertex jumping by ~1 unit that sometimes happens with force integer mode ON, especially after vertex editing I think I finally have a good picture of what was happening, and fixes for it, tech details here. Anyone want to help test? Just email me and I'll send a beta build. Changes
- Fix crash when dragging entities on some OpenGL drivers (ericw) - Fix some crashes when loading mdl and def files (ericw) - Fix for editor view getting out of sync when exiting vertex mode (ericw) - Improve floating-point precision for map loading, raise threshold for rounding coords (ericw) - Workaround "force integer plane points" mode sometimes choosing wrong coordinates (ericw) Download here I am unsure if this is on my PC only but every time I launch Trenchbroom it comes up windowed. Also the Texture lock is also always on at launch. So before I can start any editing I have to maximise and toggle lock off. The lock of course a preference only thing.
because it took me this long to get back to testing TB2 on Linux. I'm sorry! Life, etc.
Anyway, I just tried updating TB2 to the latest build, but I get an error message in the terminal... some stuff about an "undefined reference", and then finally "Error 2". The trouble seems to start here: [ 44%] Building CXX object CMakeFiles/TrenchBroom.dir/common/src/View/ToolBoxConnector.cpp.o Linking CXX executable TrenchBroom CMakeFiles/TrenchBroom.dir/common/src/IO/DefParser.cpp.o: In function `TrenchBroom::IO::DefParser::parseAttribute(TrenchBroom::IO::ParserStatus&, std::map<std::string, std::tr1::shared_ptr<TrenchBroom::Assets::AttributeDefinition>, std::less<std::string>, std::allocator<std::pair<std::string const, std::tr1::shared_ptr<TrenchBroom::Assets::AttributeDefinition> > > >&, std::vector<std::tr1::shared_ptr<TrenchBroom::Assets::ModelDefinition>, std::allocator<std::tr1::shared_ptr<TrenchBroom::Assets::ModelDefinition> > >&, std::vector<std::string, std::allocator<std::string> >&)': DefParser.cpp:(.text+0x1872): undefined reference to `TrenchBroom::IO::ParserStatus::error(unsigned int, unsigned int, std::string const&)' Then there around 50 more similar lines (mentioning "undefined reference", etc.), and then finally it says: collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status make[2]: *** [TrenchBroom] Error 1 make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/TrenchBroom.dir/all] Error 2 make: *** [all] Error 2 Should I post the full terminal output here? Or perhaps everything where things seem to be going wrong (i.e. after it says it's 44% done)? There is quite a lot of it, and I didn't want to spam the thread with a lot of text... So I was inspired by this thread http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=61220 about city maps for Quake to try out the Kingpin texture set, but when I try to add it to TB2, the programme either just closes, or gives me the following error message and then closes:
vector::_M_fill_insert If I click on "Details" it reads: vector::_M_fill_insert 15:36:00 vector::_M_fill_insert 15:36:00 vector::_M_fill_insert 15:36:00 Any idea why this is happening? Is this TB's fault, or is something amiss with the texture wad? I'm using (or rather, trying to use) kp_full.wad downloaded from Quaddicted, Linux Mint 17 and the latest build of TB2. ... when you "isolate" a brush in TB2 and then clip it, the resulting clipped brushes become invisible along with the rest of the map. This makes logical sense (seeing as it's no longer the same brush you isolated to begin with), but to me personally it would be more useful if the brush you isolate would stay visible no matter what you do to it. I mean, the reason I isolate brushes is so that I can more easily work on them, and that usually means resizing/reshaping them somehow, which usually involves clipping.
Unless I've completely misunderstood the point of the "isolate" function. Could someone let me know if I'm missing the point? Just wanted to check here first, as I wasn't sure that I understood the "isolate" function correctly. Didn't want ignorantly to request a useless feature.
Once again just checking here first...
Maybe I was hallucinating, but I seem to recall being able to do this in TB1: that you could select faces of separate brushes and -- provided they were directly adjacent and on the same plane -- edit them together (and thus e.g. easily get a texture identically oriented on all said faces). Did I just dream this? Or has this functionality been removed from TB2? Is it a bug I should report or a feature worth requesting? Using the "face" editor/browser to the right to change the texture angle, scale and offset, and the texture itself -- the way you can do with a single face (selected via shift+click) or with all faces of a single brush.
Ctrl+Shift+Click to select more than one face. They don't even need to be adjacent or on the same plane!
Yep, that works exactly as I remember it. Now how did I manage not to do that before?
Thanks, necros! Sorry, SleepwalkR! Thanks for adding this to TB2, SleepwalkR!
I have a question about using this function (I tried finding some info about it in the official TB1 documentation, but I'm guessing it was added later and thus is not yet documented?): Is it supposed to generate a new, untextured brush, while leaving the "pieces" it's made from? Because that is what happens when I use it: I select e.g. 8 textured wedges that make up an octagon, and when I do Edit --> Create convex hull, the 8 wedges are still there & unchanged, but I also get a new untextured octagonal brush in the same spot. I only ask because I had imagined I would effectively be "gluing" the wedges together to create a new brush, so that the end result would be one textured octagon and zero wedges. (Note: I'm not complaining, as I think it's a brilliant tool either way!) I currently have two func_illusionaries (one is a duplicate of the other) and when I select one of them, TB2 draws a red box around both of them. It looks like a bounding box and it increases in size as I move the two entities apart. It disappears when I turn off "Show entity bounds" under "View" to the right, which suggests to me that it's supposed to be a bounding box.
But why would I need a bounding box for two separate brush entities that I have not grouped together? This would mean that if I finally have func_illusionaries scattered throughout the entire map, I'd then just see a giant bounding box surrounding the entire map when I click on one of them. Is that supposed to be the case? Or am I missing something here? I can reproduce this: the duplicated func_illusionary contains the original and the duplicated brush(es).
It was a missing import. Sometimes, these errors only show up on specific platforms, unfortunately.
Well, I'm glad I can be of some use in finding errors/bugs/other things that may go wrong, and that it's not just me being stupid all of the time (just some of the time).
Thank you again for being so fast in fixing many of these. :) I'm going back into hiatus tomorrow. Just took a couple of days off my work and felt like doing some coding. I'll be back at it by the end of the year.
Is there a way of editing a group of brushes, short of ungrouping and then regrouping?
Say you've got a group of 50 brushes, where you just want to change one brush. Is the only solution to ungroup, edit that one brush and then select all 50 brushes one by one to create a group again? Double click on any of the grouped brushes to open the group. Edit away, then double click on anything else or the void to close the group again. This also works with nested groups.
Thanks, this is going to be a massive time-saver. :) What are nested groups? Do you mean I can group a group within a group?
Having played Quake on and off forever, I'm finally attempting to make my first map. I'm using TrenchBroom which is a very user-friendly tool.
BUT http://i.imgur.com/o9tghlF.jpg I think the depth of the button is 16. Can it be changed? Or is there another technique to make 'slim' brushes? Any advice gratefully received! CTRL++ or - to scale the grid. or Ctrl+1 or other numbers to jump between scales.
I would also advise you to give the door some framing with an inset, or you will get nasty z-fighting when the door moves into the wall. Thanks for the scaling tip, I had no idea about that.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'framing with an inset' for the door. At the moment the door is flush with the wall. I mean making the door a bit thinner than the wall. So if your wall was say 32 units thick, make the door like 16 to have 8 units space on each side. It will look like the door is actually INSIDE the wall.
trying hold shift when a brush is selected. Then as you move your cursor around you shall find different faces will be highlighted, you should be able to click and push the face in or out.
Could you add support for Xonotic? They're using NetRadiant for mapping, so there's a good chance Xonotic's engine is Quake-descendant.
Xonotic uses DarkPlaces, but they might be using q3bsp which DarkPlaces supports. If they're just using the normal Quake map format, it should just be a matter of getting the entities straight.
I posted this in the Mapping Help thread earlier, but it then got sort of lost among (very interesting) posts about methods for creating rock brushes, clipping, etc. As I wasn't sure if I was posting in the right thread anyway, I'll try again here:
Just created something in TrenchBroom, saved it, and when I tried to open it again, it gave me an error saying (line 441, column 107)Expected integer or decimal, but got 'nan' So I opened the file in a text editor and on line 441 one of the coordinates is indeed "nan" -- but in also in a few other places as well. I am guessing "nan" means "not a number" or "not a valid number"; is this correct? How on earth does this happen, and how can one fix it? Should I replace all instances of "nan" with something else in my text editor, and if so, with what? (I should perhaps also mention that I have done nothing really intricate in this map; no rotation; everything on grid.) First of all, those brushes are lost. You cannot replace nan with anything because the information is lost.
Second of all, does the editor load the map despite those errors? It should just skip these brushes and continue loading. If it doesn't, then that's a bug that I need to fix. Thirdly, you might be able to go back to an early state of the map where these errors haven't occurred yet by looking at the autosaves. These are in a directory called autosave within the directory where you map file is located. Finally, it would be super useful if you could somehow replicate this problem. It must be some tool or some transformation, or a combination of them, that leads to this. Maybe if you go back to an earlier state you can remember exactly what you did to these brushes? Please try to nail this down and then give me an example map file with instructions to replicate the problem so that I can fix it. No, the editor refuses to load the map. It just gives me the error message quoted above.
What I've managed to do in the mean time, though (before I read your reply), is to replace every instance of "nan" with "0" in a text editor, using find+replace. Afterwards the editor loaded this modified map. For what it's worth, in every instance where I had "nan" in the map file, it was one of the last three numbers on the line, and the other two were "1" -- i.e., the line ended in nan 1 1 and I changed it to 0 1 1 I don't seem to have an "autosave" directory -- TB never seems to create one in any of the directories where I keep my map files. This is TrenchBroom 2 on Linux, by the way. Ok, but those brushes should be quite distorted now, if they show up in the editor at all. Can you still try to reproduce this?
I have created bug reports for the map loading issue and for the missing autosaves on Linux. For what it's worth, in every instance where I had "nan" in the map file, it was one of the last three numbers on the line, and the other two were "1" -- i.e., the line ended in
nan 1 1 and I changed it to 0 1 1 That's just the rotation part of the texture info, correct? (# # #) (# # #) (# # #) name offset offset rotation scale scale Seems like changing it to zero should work fine. Sounds like you may be narrowing it down, but I saw this article the other day on floating point exceptions - throwing an exception when the code does something that generates a NAN. It's VisualStudio specific, I think, but could be useful for debugging.
https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2012/04/21/exceptional-floating-point/ and got amazed. In The Joker's words, it's a wonderful toy.
It still doesn't deal very well with Valve220 maps, right? I opened an old level and the textures were all crazy rotated. Something about Quake format not supporting texture rotation like Valve220? Not even a request, just a feedback. Congrats and thanks to SleepwarkR for this amazing tool. Here is the bug report for the nan issue in case you find out how to reproduce it:
https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/1069 I am making new test builds right now. I have done some open heart surgery on TB2 by replacing one of its core data structures with a different one. If all went well, you will only notice that maps load a little bit slower now. Otherwise, the new data structure should behave in the same way as the old one, but the code is much better and hopefully it will have fewer strange bugs once the initial kinks are out.
Regarding the performance of map loading, there's potential for optimization, but as it's still very fast, I'm probably not going to realize that potential as the optimizations would make the code less clear. My own testing indicates that the new code works fine, but I'm sure you guys will find edge cases that I haven't considered. I'm sure if necros tries the new build, he'll make it crash on first launch. It crashes while loading jam6_ericwtronyn.map though (included in the mapjam6 zip.) - segfault in Polyhedron::intersectWithPlane.
The bug is now fixed and the map loads fine. I'm uploading new builds now.
What do you think about the difference in load time? Confirmed that jam6_ericwtronyn.map loads. That fixed telefragged.map (from the RRP devkit) as well.
The load times seem fine, telefragged.map loads in about 5 seconds, jam6_ericwtronyn.map in 2. I don't think it's necessary to optimize that then as loading happens rarely. It's tempting, but the advantage of the current algorithm is that it has a simpler invariant.
latest build feels better than some of the earlier builds. Mostly because you added the old school brush mode back in. Still feels slightly less productive in terms of work flow though, mostly due to extra button presses than I would need in TB1.
So for example, if I drag out a brush in TB1 it will be selected automatically. which allows me to instantly move or manipulate it if I need to. TB2 if I drag out a brush I have to escape out of the brush tool or select the move button instead, just doesn't flow quite as well. It's perfectly serviceable and better than Jackhammer though. Brush creation is a separate too know, and tools stay active by default. That's why you have to escape out. Not sure how to change that without making other things too awkward.
Any other gripes? Not really that much in the way of gripes. I'm not really sure how to create a brush using vertex point creation. I can shift click the vertices but I have no idea how to extend upwards?
Also, I am still very excited to see support for other id-tech games. Heretic 2 is one game I want to create a couple maps for, but I am waiting for proper support. So, dumb question
There's a box button at the top with what appears to be a cannabis leaf. Click that and then it should work. Or you can press the space bar and work in 2d mode
You mean in brush mode? You can't edit the vertices once they are set. You basically create a convex hull by setting points or dragging rects on other faces and the realize that form by hitting enter. The ability to drag the vertices might be added later.
For some reason cant get this to work.
Also cant find anything on it. Is this editor compatible with Quake 3 Arena? Cheers for the great addition to the Quake scene. .fgd or
Or you can add whatever the entites or monsters are to the file you have (or a copy of it). It pretty easy - copy paste another entry (it's just text inside) and change the name. Adding the special keys/flags that the entities use not 100% sure what you mean. TB is just for making maps, it will display the models from the game if you point the editor towards your quake directory.
I made a TB tutorial, if you can get past my accent (the type of british accent that is never shown on tv) then it should show you the basics on making your first map - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BisleGBgQ4w TB1, yes. I thought I had reported that, but when I went to look, there was only this issue: https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/713 which only involved the icon getting stuck.
I went to recreate it just now in order to make a new issue and I was able to do it twice, but on the third and successive attempts to recreate, I can't...... so yeah... I'lll.... keep messing with it. O_o Hi guys sorry but I have to ask
How do I compile the map on a mac? I tried everything already, but cant make it work I'm new to the macOS, and new to quake(played for the first time in 2015) and mapping. I know about TyrUtils, but have no idea on how to use it, tried to find tutorials and documentation about, but found nothing. Have no idea what to do now so any help on how to compile on a mac is much appreciated. I'm really enjoying myself with TrenchBroom, but now going crazy with the compile, and being a noob. First download the osx build of: http://ericwa.github.io/tyrutils-ericw/
(it's my branch of tyrutils with some updates over the original). Extract it and copy everything in the "bin" directory (qbsp, vis, light, etc.) to the place where you are keeping your Next open a terminal and type: cd ~/Desktop/mapping (replacing "~/Desktop/mapping" and "mymap" with your own directory / map name.) That should give you a mymap.bsp which you can copy to your quake/id1/maps directory. This turorial might also have some good information: (the main thing you won't have is necros's compiling gui, which is windows-only) http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Getting_Started_Mapping So I don't know how to move the elevator to up, just sounds and not moving...
Give it a 'height' key and add an integer value - this is how far down it will move.
http://www.quake-1.com/wc16a-tutorial/entities2.html For learn the Elevator values in TB? I need values, and the trigger don't have transparency and collision in my experience...
I don't know what is a Spawnflag and I don't know how to use properties of a single shape.
I make a teleport and sounds as water, the QDamage doesn't appears, the triggers are solids and move with the triggered shape. What I can do? Spawn flag help -
http://kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/docs/editing_objects.html#editing_entity_properties I guess I could make a simple map file for you, what type of things would you like to know? This was surprisingly hard, and I am still not 100% sure it always works, but:
http://www.quaketastic.com/files/screen_shots/tb2_csg_subtract.png also it crashes a lot right now, but due to bugs in the vertex manipulation code. Those will be fixed soon, and then it should be stable. But in any case, it will not create new vertices at all. All the remaining brushes will use the vertices of the minuend and those of the subtrahend. In many cases, this will work out fine.
...isn't the brush manipulation function that we need right now, but it's the one that we deserve.
(i've no idea what i'm on about tbh, i'm a little bit drunk) Now I only need external light map importing, and proper smooth shading... and this will be ultimate overkill :D
I was on YouTube trying to find out how to use the Jackhammer editor when I saw this one, and it looked great and I would have no problems with it because it's meant for only one game.
I downloaded it and extracted it from the folder and made a short cut of the And when I go to map properties I can't find the files I think it needs from the Quake files like the fdg. info_player:
go on preferences and "choose" your "quake path" (its Quake main folder) that will fix the entities. here explain it better (its the second step) http://kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/docs/ as for the textures you need go to edit>Map Properties and click on the "+" button to get your you can download a I recommend watching this video ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr9FR1W1JFE One of the expansion packs.
Dissolution of eternity, or Scourge of Armagon. Or maybe the Quoth mod, I think it has both those included as well. Is this in the latest build?
Also, I am having trouble setting up mod directories. In TB1 you can select which mod directory and it will show the models and stuff but I can't find the option in TB2. Ok, I've figured it out... using TB2 is like trying to find something in your room after your mum has cleaned it.
Yeah, but I'm going to take some of the UI changes back before the final release. But this particular setting stays where it is ;-)
not it's own, but you can filter by milestone on github:
https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/milestones/TrenchBroom%202.0.0 and https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/milestones/TrenchBroom%202.1.0 There is a part in the intro docs that is phrased poorly. I suggest a more technically accurate phrasing below.
In http://kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/docs/getting_started.html it says "Planes are represented with 3 co-linear points (in other words, all 3 of those points are on the plane)." I am used to the spelling collinear myself, but some dictionaries list the single-l form too. It's probably not important which one you use, as long as you are consistent. I believe what you meant to say here is the opposite of what it literally says. As I'm sure you know, the 3 points must not be collinear for a map compiler to accept them. I don't remember off hand if they all just crash if you give them a hand-edited file with bad points, all on the same line, or if some compilers print an error message, but that's not important here. I would recommend the following phrasing for the surrounding context, including actually not using the term collinear at all, because it's not important from the users' point of view. The editor takes care of the points not being collinear after all. - - - Each plane is represented by choosing three [unique] points from it that do not lie on the same line. These points don't have to coincide with the vertices of the brush that the planes define. Therefore, it is possible for the editor to find a representation for the plane using only integer points, even if the resulting brush has non-integer vertices. - - - The word unique is not necessary there, but if you feel it makes the idea clearer you can include it. If any other improvements or suggestions for the docs come up as I read them, I can send them via Github from now on. I assume that's the way you'd prefer. I'm going to be reading the docs carefully, since I'll be trying to use a Trenchbroom for a bit of modest mapping soon and need a bit of a refresher :) It doesn't make much sense to say "three coplanar points," because all sets of three points in Euclidean space are always coplanar for at least one plane. So, I assume it was collinearity that SleepwalkR was thinking about when writing that sentence.
Just hurry up and make a decision. I've been gagging to use this editor and the non-precise wording of that sentence has been blocking me for ages.
While Trenchbroom and all other editors represent brushes as 3D meshes with polygons and vertices, brushes are actually defined as a set of faces created from intersected planes. Each intersection of at least three planes generates a vertex in 3D space, and since each brush must be convex, each face will have at least three vertices, and the lines between each pair of vertices will never be colinear with the lines between any other pair in the same face. Thanks to this, the orientation of those planes can be safely calculated from the position of three of its vertices in 3D space, and their edges are resolved by getting the intersections of those planes during compile time. ID chose to use this method because it reduces the filesize, is faster to render in software, and is safer against T-junctions.
ID chose to use this method because it reduces the filesize
Fun fact: In DoomEdit (The Doom 3 editor), id chose to reduce the filesize even further by defining a plane with just one vector and one scalar, representing a normal and a distance from the origin. This meant that every single brush face that was not aligned with an orthogonal axis was represented using imprecise float coordinates. Further to this, opening and saving a Because it follows some essential principles used by the software renderer: convex brushes, convex polygons, and implicit texture mapping (which plane normals are used for).
The MDL format, on the other hand, uses things like direct texture mapping (each vertex is directly assigned to a texel's coordinates). I said the method is faster to render, not the format. The renderer is reading the BSP so
The software renderer didn't see the world as triangles originally, did it? wpoly and epoly were totally separate paths.
the software renderer traversed the bsp tree and rasterised the convex faces, which were not necessarily triangles.
True, and the epoly had that optimization we talked about before where it would only render the vertices if a model got too far away.
However, that doesn't change the fact that the source file format has nothing to do with how the software renderer works. QBSP shreds the brushes into a tree In fact in the actual bsp file the plane struct is a normal vector and distance (and a type field), so the three point version of a plane disappears completely after qbsp.
Of course, you are right. What I wrote is nonsense. I will rephrase this in the TB2 docs. Thank you for pointing it out!
Keep it up, looking forward to having HL1 support out of the box in TB 2.0, this has some serious potential to ignite the HL1 modding community back up again like it's 1999 ;)
Haven't compiled the tb develop branch in a while and its failing with thousands of the same wx-3.0 Wdeprecated-declaration warnings where previously there where none.
Appreciate that. I was up very late when I attempted to compile and wasn't thinking clearly.
Re #1907 by Kin on 2015/11/12 17:08:10:
I've read this post today and just fired up the Doom 3 Editor and looked at a freshly saved map file. And oh my, this is real. They are really using the numerically unstable way of saving brush plane information using just a normal vector and a distance value. Why on earth would ANYONE do that? Move the whole level geometry forward and back a bit a few times, and you're _guaranteed_ to have everything that's not perfectly straight entirely screwed up! That's lunatic! O_O X_X I think Sikkpin or someone modded the editor to use the quake-style plane format and the problem of course just went away - you could try to dig up some info about that.
I lost a couple of maps to that feature before I realized that you're really meant to so complex get with models.
Would this be something that could be supported in the future by TB?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJzguNJsivM but I have no interest in developing plugins for Unreal. If anyone wants to do it, I'll support it, but I won't do it myself.
I am having trouble loading FGDs for Hipnotic and Rogue into TB2. Has anyone else tried these in this build? Maybe I am doing something wonky. Trying the FGD versions from Quaddicted archives. wanted to ask before submitting to Github.
Error and then crash: Unknown entity definition class @Main (line 8, column 1) TrenchBroom-Win32-2.0.0-36e49c4-Release Looking at recent changes and the 2.0 issue list it seems like an official 2.0 release is close? Would be awesome! Is Q3 (Warsow, Xonotic etc.) editing in by now?
Thanks for creating this cool tool! I just need to write the docs.
Sorry, no Q3 support, but that's the first feature I'm going to work on for 2.1. And maybe you can explain to me what's happening in that video, I didn't understand it.
if we could just use this tool? You can export the brush to a text file which appears to give all the co-ordinates.
So I made a bendy pipe, see screenshot - https://www.dropbox.com/s/05wmcrs7c4is635/pipebend.jpg?dl=0 And here's what the text file looks like. http://pastebin.com/xdmVE6Z1 Do you think this could be converted to the Lunaran suggested it. I like it.
As for the video, basically you're drawing a 2D shape and then revolving it around a pivot point. It would be way more complicated for Quake as it would have to generate convex brushes. Unreal was easy since all it requires is convex faces - brush can be any shape you want. My idea for a similar tool was to move a plane along a path and create brushes from that. The number of brushes depends on some precision factor given by the user. The path is defined either by a series of transformations or by a curve. It' a generalization of your tool.
But it's just a very rough sketch right now. Sleep - Yeah, that would work for Quake. The limitation there is obviously that the polygon needs to be convex. A more powerful option would allow for multiple polygons to be extruded along said path - To create, say, a pipe with an indent in it or whatever...
You could draw the shape with the new brush drawing tool and have it rotate around the world origin (or a point of your choosing). The 2d Shape Editor thing allows you to extrude out or create bevel objects too but I guess that's not needed as much for TB since it's already much better then UED 2 for editing vertices etc.
I think having more than one polygon would be the way to go. Turning a concave polygon into convex ones is not too hard, but doing it in a way that appears "good" to a level designer is a challenge. The CSG subtraction in TB2 attempts to do this, and it works well, but the algorithm is kind of a nightmare.
The custom Quake 1 engines that levels are built nowadays should acquire bezier patch mesh support. I think it has some shortcomings in Quake 3 that are addressable, e.g. by setting fixed counts of rows and columns instead of letting the engine connect and LOD as it sees fit.
I guess it would require wide-spread engine support. I don't think it's really needed. Hell if everyone starts adding features then fine, but right now it's not urgent.
I'm all for innovation, but what's fun about bezier patches?
I mean that in the most direct way - what would they bring to the game that it's missing right now? For a feature request to gain traction it's got to be something that many people, especially the creator (doing it for free) needs to think would be a benefit. This doesn't sound like an improvement. Like bump mapping on a mesh of 30 polys. everyone has one desired feature they'd flip for. just one.
everyone's is different. the results of everyone's pet feature all being piled into one engine at the same time are "I'm all for innovation, but what's fun about bezier patches? "
^^ THIS As much as I love tech, I never had any love for the curved surfaces in Quake 3. It's rather telling that even after all these years, no-one (at least on this board) has tried using Quake 3 bsp + Darkplaces for a Q1SP.
Maybe not as an engine modification, but as a mapping tool to make arches or to just link one point to another with a "curved" surface.
I could see THAT being useful for Quake tho
Oh yes Quark is the Jimmy Saville of Quake editors; it has ostensibly violated every map it has come into contact with, it is quite clearly dead as a dodo at this point, yet people ceaselessly use it to draw comparisons with other things at every opportunity.
I'm pretty dense so I've never even been able to do a box map with Quark but with TB2 I've been able to do this:
https://www.dropbox.com/home/Public?preview=spasm0000.jpg In one session. Quark's UI has always been a bit like an old steamship to me instead of TB which is a jet ski. or something. woops this (and it was 2 sessions actually)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23701801/spasm0000.jpg Yeah Trenchbroom is brilliant! I have been having fun in it too. I feel mapping for Quake really hits the right spot for me. Its full 3d which is more fun then doom but still brush based so you don't have to spend hours creating high resolution assets for it. Combined with the fluidity of the Trenchbroom editor it rocks.
I am still learning but its amazing how quickly you can slot stuff together. Hopefully in the not too distant feature we can show our maps to eachother! In a not too distant future maybe you both take part on a map jam here, showing your maps to all of us.
Someone has already volunteered and I don't want to turn this into a contest. Let's see how his icons turn out first.
Still working on my first real SP map. Not much completed lately but hoping to complete it in February. It's not really an epic so far but I am enjoying TB2.
Trying to use gtkradiant's
"Parse error at line 457, column 53: Expected token type newline but got question mark" This line is /*QUAKED light (0 1 0) (-8 -8 -8) (8 8 8) START_OFF ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? afaik ??? marks skipped flags so it wouldn't be wise to simply remove it. How should I go around it? If I select predefined quake.fgd, func group is missing completely and trigger group only has counter and relay in it. That is what I noticed first, probably other missing entities in other groups. Replacing each ??? with ? didn't work. If you meant replacing everything after START_OFF with a single ? sign, then I'm kinda scared to do that.
It might fix this specific line, but I would still have something like /*QUAKED monster_enforcer (1 0 0) (-16 -16 -24) (16 16 40) AMBUSH ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? NOT_EASY NOT_NORM NOT_HARD NOT_DM pretty sure that would screw up flags. Crawling my way back to mapping after a hiatus of
I seem to be very good at forgetting what I've learnt. Right now trying to update my TB2 build to the latest version, but I've managed to screw something up, I think. I went to my ~/TB2/TrenchBroom/build directory and typed git pull then cmake then cmake --build . which is as far as I can tell what I've always done, as per instructions SleepwalkR gave me (like two million years ago). But apparently I've done something stupid, because I get this error message: [ 0%] Built target GenerateVersion [ 0%] Built target glew [ 0%] Generating gen-help/index.html make[2]: pandoc: Command not found make[2]: *** [gen-help/index.html] Error 127 make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/GenerateHelp.dir/all] Error 2 make: *** [all] Error 2 This is all on Linux, by the way. Help! Please? PS: I wish the forum had a zombie icon. That mask-thingie will have to do for now. pandoc: Command not found
means that the compilation process unsuccessfully tried to find the command (program) pandoc/b>. You need to install whatever package provides the pandoc tool. It is probably just called "pandoc". ;) Thank you, Spirit!
Now let's see how long it takes me to break something else... Sorry if I've overlooked something obvious, but is there a way of knowing when TB2 has been updated, e.g. subscribing via github and getting e-mail notifications or something? I have an account on github (made just so I can report TB2 issues), but I'm not too clued up about exactly how github works.
The thing is, a few times now I've reported an issue without realising that the build I had was not the latest, and I don't want to keep doing that & wasting SleepwalkR's time... AFAIK, Github doesn't have email notifications for commits. I think the best approach is just to do a git pull and build before every time your run TB2.
Yes, I cannot see a way to get notified upon pushes to a specific branch. I agree with ericw. Maybe don't pull every time, but do it regularly.
but I'm already 3 merges in so I'd like to think I have kind of "pulled my weight" ;)
I do want to contibute more at some later point (or if there's problems with the linux packages). SleepwalkR, I'm not sure if you see comments on closed issues on github, so I'll just post this here. Sorry if this is not the right place.
I'm still having problems with aligning textures on different brushes at once. As of a46b9f2, I can now separately fix each brush's texture, but I still cannot select multiple brushes and edit their angles/offsets/scales jointly. Pretty sure this used to be possible in an earlier build. Probably a stupid question, but is it possible to have two or more different builds on one machine at the same time? So if something is broken in the latest build, you can keep using the latest-but-one build and then update the other one when an even newer build gets released.
Err, I am explaining this really badly, but maybe you know what I mean? (I strongly suspect that's one of the reasons people use github, but I really struggle to understand how git/github actually works. The online documentation seems to assume a fair amount of prior coding knowledge, and I just get lost when I try to decipher it). That helps a lot, although there are a few things I still don't quite get. Need to read through this a few times though before I ask more stupid questions.
How does that work again? Has it changed over the last few builds? I can't figure it out...
Where do I see how many brushes I have in my map? (I feel like I used to know this, but now I can't figure it out).
Will it be possible in a later build?
And another question: is it possible to merge groups, brushes and entities into pre-existing groups (without creating nested groups in the process)? If not, would it be worth requesting this functionality on github? ... or for that matter, removing brushes and entities from groups (not deleting them, just ungrouping them while retaining the rest of the group) would also be amazingly useful.
But maybe all of that is already possible? moving stuff in and out of groups is possible, but currently broken. I'll add a bug report for this.
Features
General - Full support for editing in 3D and in up to three 2D views - High performance renderer with support for huge maps - Unlimited Undo and Redo - Macro-like command repetition - Issue browser with automatic quick fixes - Point file support - Automatic backups - Free and cross platform Brush Editing - Robust vertex editing with edge and face splitting and manipulating multiple vertices together - Clipping tool with two and three points - CSG operations: merge, subtract, intersect - UV view for easy texture manipulations - Precise texture lock for all brush editing operations - Multiple texture collections Entity Editing - Entity browser with drag and drop support - Support for FGD and DEF files for entity definitions - Mod support - Entity link visualization - Displays 3D models in the editor - Smart entity property editors Downloads at http://www.kristianduske.com/trenchbroom as usual. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this release. It was very long and tedious work to get to this point, and I appreciate all the help I have gotten. I plan to do only bugfix releases for a while and to release a stable build on June 22nd, Quake's 20th birthday. I don't expect the beta to be very crashy because many people have already been using it. TrenchBroom 2.1.0 will bring Quake 3 support and a better brush creation tool. Development on that will begin only after 2.0.0 is out. Have fun and go map! my def files shows no func_ and only _relay in trigger group.
Builtin FGD also shows trigger_counter, but no func_ also. Can't find console to check if there is any parse errors. Thanks - I feel more like these guys, though: http://fgalve.deviantart.com/art/Don-quijote-and-Sancho-Panza-440302970
Can clarify - it is true only for Entity Browser pane.
I guess it only shows point entities. Check out this cute video of the busy bee Sleepy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49QAf5JmzgA
Incidentally, it looks like some sort of indie game waiting to be made. So someone go for it! Just downloaded and tried on the map I was working on...and I am just in awe. This is going to simplify the already simple to use tools! The texture alignment, some basic CSG operations, just incredible man!
That video is awesome. I like how everything explodes in mid 2012.
Yeah I don't know about your don quijote feelings man. TB is one of the reasons that got me interested in quake again. yeah, the texture alignment is one of those really amazing things you wonder why no one did before. it makes aligning stuff almost trivial.
When I click "Entity" or "Face" tab, TB2 crashes. This happens in Q or Q2 mode with game path set.
Bug submitted on GitHub. Am probably going to do a fresh OS (Linux) install soon, and hence will have to install TB2 again. Should (/can) I do the same kind of install-via-github thing I did for the alpha, or just grab the deb package from the TB website?
A hypothetical question: I haven't looked at the beta yet; been having some issues with my primary computer, but if I were to do the git pull etc. thing from within the latest alpha build that I have, would I end up with the same version of TB2 as is in the beta deb package (I can't test this myself at the moment unfortunately)? Apologies if I'm missing something obvious but
When I create a map then play and save it, the saved game has no name. It depends on what you want. If you are fine with using only the betas and not using the alphas that may or may not be released in between, then you can just install the packages from the website.
Otherwise, you can do the same thing as before. However, fixes that are implemented during the beta process will live in the release/v2.0.0 branch and may only occasionally get merged into the develop branch. The merging happens at the latest when the 2.0.0 stable version is released, though. Sorry to tell you that in the future, we will be using the git flow branching model which makes things more complicated for you. http://danielkummer.github.io/git-flow-cheatsheet/ That does look intimidating. But by "in the future" you mean "not yet", right? As in, for now I can continue exactly as before?
I'd really like to try and keep up with the intermediate bugfixes, and I'll try to understand the git flow stuff. Thank you for releasing the Linux deb and rpm packages, though. It's really good to have that to fall back on, and I really appreciate it when developers don't expect Linux users to be tech experts. You need to add a value to the "message" key of your worldspawn brushes. The "message" will be the name of the level displayed in-game when you hit tab, and in the saved game menu.
That does look intimidating. But by "in the future" you mean "not yet", right? As in, for now I can continue exactly as before?
No, this is as of now. I can also give you access to dropbox if you want to try the intermittent alpha builds. You'll need a dropbox account and you'll need to give me the associated email address. I can't select objects in 2d view or move them around using the mouse (I can only move objects with the arrow keys).
Anyone else having this problem? Nope, changing tool mode doesnt do anything for me. I think I pressed tab to get a little hand icon and then after that it stopped working?
I can't get the info panel to display in TB2 with any maps. Using the Toggle Info Panel menu item has no affect. Wonder if it's a Windows 10 issue? Incidentally, TB is an astonishing piece of software.
Win7 x64 same issue here.
I thought I was just blind or doing something wrong. You are right. Though for me it is not related to TAB, but to cycling views with SPACE.
It is all good until I change the view. After that strange things happen. Some brushes don't react at all, some could be selected only in one of the side views... is it possible to add x/y/z letters to existing color-coded arrows, btw? Another thing I noticed - some brushes are not displayed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QCNUwRV5aY&feature=youtu.be Brushes disappearing in orthographic views is part of same issue or it needs separate entry?
That's okay, thanks for the video.
I wonder why all these bugs show up just now. We have had all those alpha builds and it seems like noone has really tested them. Maybe I should stop doing alpha builds. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdhlNGxW0AEmRVB.jpg:orig
Overall, TB is quite impressive. :) Before that, I've wildly copied and pasted brushes until it crashed. Then I tried the same in Microbrush until it crashed. TB reached 64k brushes before crashing when cloning them, Mb reached 512k brushes before the crashing clone. We're probably both hitting 32bit memory address bounds or something like that. As I associate more data with my brushes for texturing, my total count before a crash will probably decrease, too. I suppose you're on Windows? Memory consumption is a weak point of TB, I have beens squandering memory to be honest. It is something I'd like to improve in the future. On the other hand, "64k ought to be enough for anybody", ask Bill Gates!
It would be nice if the compile tools and engines adopted handling such large numbers of brushes normally... think of all the possibilities for detail modeling, not necessarily larger maps... mmh.
the quake bsp / visportal system really does not scale well as maps become more and more detailed.
There is a reason games abandoned this model 15 years ago I haven't been using the alphas very often which is why you rarely get bug reports from me.
I would bug test more but I don't want to risk losing work at the moment One could harness the ease and expressiveness of brush-based modeling in conjunction with other ways of doing the vis work, too. I recall many approaches to these issues from lectures I've attended. BSP and vis portals are just two flavors.
In the Quake domain, there might be some room for extending the concept of detail brushes a bit, so that the compiler and engine identify complex parts that could be made into models that go through a different rendering pipeline, etc. What I meant was a bit of daydreaming that some underlying fundamentals are changed with a lot of effort. :P Yes, if you mean like how the Quake 3 and Doom 3 engines have much more efficient ways of dealing with detailed brushery than Quake 1 then I agree.
Darkplaces has q3bsp support for quake 1. That's probably as good as we're gonna get. Thank you, I'll get back to you re dropbox. First priority is to get my primary machine up and running again.
oops, i never use the info panel... when it went away, i just figured you made it remember i had set it off when i quit. :S
Would you be interested in some packaging pedantry? (I can totally understand if not). Can't find the debian directory anywhere...
Just create an issue on github. I haven't done the CMake config for the Linux packages, but I can notify flp, the person who has done it.
I don't know if they supposed to in this version though.
Should be stored in the map file, so you shouldn't have to reset it when you open a map.
Texture lock state could be a preference. As I'm a a TB newb I have a quick question, does TB not have a compile / launch option?
What happened to the Docs? I get a 404 when trying to access it even though it still pops up in Google search.
Is it possible to add WAD3 support? It would be great to use TB for GoldSrc based games :D
And it's already been requested, but it's not very high priority for me.
https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/1140 Changelog: https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/tree/release/v2.0.0#trenchbroom-200-beta-0f4b6d2
Downloads: http://kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/tb2/downloads.php Thanks to everyone involved! Great to see an official release of all hard work you are doing!
Thanks for doing what you do! can't DL latest beta
The requested URL /TrenchBroom-Win32-2.0.0-Beta-93e34bf-Release.zip was not found on this server. Just tried the latest build with the
It works so far flawless, am using the latest Blender and the imported The only thing is that there is no All i can say is, thank you for your hard work man. Here's the fixed link: http://kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/downloads.php
Yeah, materials are not supported and it's doubtful they will ever be. It's just out of the scope of a level editor to convert textures etc. to Wavefront material files. If you know a simpler way, let me know. Otherwise, it'll remain unsupported unless a lot of people moan about it.
Fixes only one bug where keyboard shortcuts would no longer work after cycling a map view.
Changelog: https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/tree/release/v2.0.0#trenchbroom-200-beta-e439e68 Downloads: http://kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/downloads.php I might be pushing it...but is there any chance this awesome tool might be extended to ql...? (Radiant is bugged on my pc)
QL supports ladders and a few more items to place, also bot roams don't work any longer, there's a few new lines you can write in the Worldspawn too, mostly (if not all) meta info like author.
If anyone wants more solid and up to date info, then "sponge" at #quakelive is your guy. Pretty much the only guy who worked on QL for last few months/years(?)
Be warned! He is always extra grumpy and hates all players (as suspected by many). There is also "SyncError", but he is rarely around these days. I could never drop GTKr for something else to Q3/QL, but I know a community that would love this editor
The Daikatana one =) With the entire development of DK1.3 and all the hard work they have done, there's no real editor except for the shitty old QEr Yea Daikatana is Q2, so just _basic_ support to get it up and running should be fine if there's support for Q2.
I guess... I've been out of the loop for a few weeks due to hardware trouble; only got to use the beta now. On my setup at least (Linux Mint 17.3), the mousewheel/middle button seems to have inverted left-to-right (and vice versa) movement, compared to the last alpha build I used (from shortly before the first beta release). Is this intentional?
Would there be any way of merging geometry together? I'm not talking about grouping, just a way of turning multiple brushes into a single brush?
How is it coming along with support for Half-Life/CS?
Quake is always fun playing around with, but my favorite engine has always been goldsrc. Trenchbroom is so much easier and faster than the regular editors, so i just want to say thanks for trenchbroom and for the future updates. I want to utilize Trenchbroom as a level editor for my game in Unity. I can do it through OBJ export in TB2. However, I don't know how to load custom textures into it. Any help?
Due to my needs, format doesn't really matter, but I'm using Quake, map format Valve. I'm using TB 2.0.0 beta, build e439e68, which is at the time newest beta build. For Quake, that's mip textures packaged in was files.
Description: Every time I launch Trenchbroom, my wife needs me to help with something.
Repro Rate: It's happened twice. Expected Results: Time to stand still when I launch. At least I got TB2 extracted and launched though... And one time it sat open for a few hours with e1m4 loaded while I took care of other things, so, it was like my computer was mapping! Sorry for the month+ pause in responding; life interfered. The preferences settings don't seem to help. Opening github issue...
I have the TB2 Beta installed on my system (Linux), but it's not working so well for me and I'm keen to get back to a map I was working on. The last few alpha builds were more usable for me, so I was wondering if it's possible to use one of those while waiting for the newer stable beta version...?
(I've installed both Netradiant and Jackhammer in the mean time, but they're both very different from TB and I can't see myself getting much done with either of them in the near future. This is not meant as a judgement on the value of those editors; I'm sure they're both great, but I just can't seem to get a grip on either. It's probably a testament to TB's ease of use, though!) I've just tried to install one of the TB2 alphas by doing the same thing I did before the Beta came out, i.e. the process described here: https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/blob/develop/Build.txt (I suspected that was not the correct thing to do, but I thought I'd try it before asking for help here.) It worked, sort of. I ended up with "Version 2.0.0 Interim" instead of one of the alpha builds. I can launch the programme, but when I try to open any map projects it crashes. If I understand the automatically generated crash report correctly, it's trying to access a ".TrenchBroom" directory in my home directory, but ~/.TrenchBroom doesn't exist: Reason: Exception: Cannot open directory: '/home/total_newbie/.TrenchBroom' I then tried following the advice in post #2013 above, i.e. I ran git log , which listed what I understood to be the last four versions of TB2. So I picked the first one and ran git checkout f673031f5024e4fe23ff1e24dc86e0de22985c01 That still left me with a 2.0.0 Interim version that crashes for seemingly the exact same reason. I'm sure this was all really stupid, but is there a way of doing what I was trying to do, i.e. install one of the last alpha builds of TB2 to use while waiting for the new beta? You might also check whether there is a file in your home directory called
The main issue was with the inverted mousewheel, which really threw me off -- but I figured out today how to change it back to how it should be, as I commented on github (this was after my having tried to reinstall an alpha build and posting here). I still feel really stupid for having missed that earlier.
The other problems might very well exist between keyboard and chair, which is why I haven't reported them as issues (yet). One is that I can't get entities to display properly, despite having specified my game path correctly (I think) -- entities still display as coloured cubes. Another is that some of my brushwork seems to have drifted from where it's supposed to be -- but again, I need to make sure that it wasn't something I did wrong (and I thought that if I could e.g. test the same map in one of the latest alphas and in the beta, I would be able to tell quite quickly if the beta was behaving badly or if I was just being stupid). As for the missing you can try to create it manually. But either way, please submit a bug report. As for the other problems, please also submit bug reports. Maybe we can figure it out together.
and it was just stupidity on my part. I hadn't noticed that although the game path pointed to my Quake installation, the game was specified as Hexen 2 Basically I forgot to specify the game as "Quake" (it's a map file I had been working on before, so I guess I assumed TB2 would recognise it as a Quake map file, and didn't even think that I needed to specify it again).
I'll have another look at the drifting brushwork problem too and if I can't figure out what went wrong I'll submit a bug report. Greetings! I have a simple map I built for Quake 2 in the Trenchroom v2 beta, but before I get much further I'd like to see it in-game. How does one compile a BSP from a
Specifically qbsp. Then you can use light to add lighting (qbsp on its own will give you a fullbright bsp).
In any case you need a separate compiling programme (similar to qbsp); TB doesn't compile maps. Because I feel stupid for giving the wrong answer to your question, I've tried to find what people currently use to compile Q2 maps, and I've found this: http://home.insightbb.com/~gryndehl/q2compile/quake2.html (via http://maps.rcmd.org/tutorials/q2_mapping_today/). Seems to be Windows only, but maybe it'll run in Wine on OSX?
Or someone else will give the correct answer and I'll look and feel like even more of an idiot... I appreciate the help in any case! I had not tried using Wine, but I'm not having much luck with it. If there are any tools which work natively on OS X, that would be awesome, but of course I'd be happy to get these tools working through Wine as well. What follows is the command I used and the output of qbsp3.exe:
gddqbsp3_109 okaybenji$ wine qbsp3 -gamedir /Applications/Games/Quake\ 2 test.map ----------- qbsp3 ----------- original code by id Software Modified by Geoffrey DeWan Revision 1.09 ----------------------------- gamedir set to /Applications/Games/Quake 2\ entering Z:\Applications\Games\Trenchbroom\Maps\Quake 2\Tools\gddqbsp3_109\test.map 0...2...5...7... (0) 0...2...5...7... (0) writing Z:\Applications\Games\Trenchbroom\Maps\Quake 2\Tools\gddqbsp3_109\test.prt Writing Z:\Applications\Games\Trenchbroom\Maps\Quake 2\Tools\gddqbsp3_109\test.bsp 0 seconds elapsed Benjis-MBP:gddqbsp3_109 okaybenji$ wine.bin(89554,0x407c9000) malloc: *** error for object 0xf883bbc0: pointer being freed was not allocated *** set a breakpoint in malloc_error_break to debug I normally get warnings with wine.. although not malloc errors. It looks like it succeeded though.
Every q1/q2/q3 compile tool I've tried has worked in wine, fwiw. Yes, it created a BSP, but every time I try to load that BSP in Quake 2 I get the error: "Couldn't find spawn point"
My map is just a small, closed box with info_player_start and a railgun inside of it. For good measure I've tried throwing in an info_player_deathmatch as well. *shrug* I successfully compiled the included thesun.map and loaded it in the game, so the compiler is working! Just need to learn how to make Quake 2 maps I guess, haha.
I have managed to build and play a map for Quake 1. Loving TrenchBroom! Ahh, I got it working! Was just doing something stupid. Thanks for the help, total_newbie and ericw. And thanks for the great app, SleepwalkR!
Is it possible to split one instance of TB into two windows, so that when you have more than one monitor, you can e.g. move the 3d view onto one monitor and have the map/entity/face browser on the other monitor?
If not, is it worth a feature request on github, or is it the kind of thing that's not likely to be implemented? There already is a request for this on github somewhere, but it's not very high on my priority list right now.
The +-4096 limits are not displayed anywhere in TB (yet), are they?
I just opened a map I'd been working on under TB in Netradiant, and saw how it displays clear boundaries at the +-4096 points (and at multiples of 512 when you zoom in closer) -- generally the coordinates on the grid make it clear where everything is in the world. This would be tremendously useful in TB. I was a little shocked to see how close some of my brushes were to the limit (the map is a little lopsided rather than huge) and I wish I could see this in TB without needing a second editor. Or does TB already show it somehow? I created a map that shows the boundaries in Trenchbroom. I basically map inside a giant hollow brush... once I am ready to seal the map I delete the hollow brush and get to work.
Thanks for the tip. You mean six large flat brushes that enclose the map in a cube, all 4096 x 4096 x [some small number], and positioned along the +-4096 edges of the world? That's not a bad idea as a workaround, but could you even create that cube in TrenchBroom? It would seem that you'd need a different editor that shows you where the +-4096 edges are so that you could line up the cube correctly (I mean, even if it's doable within TB, it sounds like it would be rather finicky).
In any case, while that's probably a good workaround, it really shouldn't be necessary to need a workaround -- and potentially a second editor to implement it. But thank you again for the tip! Is there another 3D editor available for quake?
Due to how incredibly buggy TrenchBroom is I spend more time trying to work around the bugs (hello non-integer's) and unexpected behaviours than I do actually mapping. There's also the worry that my maps might not open the next time I try to work on them. It's quite frightening how old Quake is (happy 20th btw <3) and yet afaik there's still no modern, stable editor. I realise this may come across as whining however I can't help but wonder how active this community would be if Quake's tools and resources we're even remotely up-to-date. Is there another 3D editor available for quake?
No. Before 2013 we all used notepad.exe Can't you just use notepad like the pros? Contributing your bug reports and explaining your issues to the project instead of wasting time and effort on whining would eventually help make it more stable and bug free.
Kinn:
>Is there another 3D editor available for quake? >No. Thank you. I was inspired to return to Quake mapping a few times but regressing to 2D editing is very off-putting and I haven't got the patience/time to wrestle with buggy software. xaGe: Sure, unfortunately most of my bugs are already open on the issue tracker (and some are years old). The rest are enhancements and usablity fixes but it's not worthwhile suggesting features currently. Just discovered NetRadiant, gonna try it out in the meantime. Thanks And where are these issue reports? Please paste some links and I'll see what I can do about them.
I have it installed, but use it little now a days. I've been lucky enough to have small issues with TB2 and anything I did have issue with was fixed before too long after I reported and documented the issue the best I could.
Changes
- In-editor compilation support. - Support for launching game engines. - Add issue generator for long entity properties. - Add issue generator for empty groups. - Improve texture loading in Quake 2. - Don't allow drawing brushes outside of world bounds. - Reset the rotation handle position and keep a list of previously used positions. - Store texture lock state in the preferences and default to on. - Allow Shift+Drag to snap vertices to the grid. - Fix crash when closing the editor while the clip tool is active. - Fix skew bugs in UV editor. - Fix duplicated objects not being added to the current layer or group. - Fix rendering problems when duplicating entities within groups. - Fix handling of brush entities when grouping. - Fix initial point placement in the complex brush tool. - Fix crash when undoing CSG operations. - Fix crash when undoing brush resizing. - Fix usage indicators in entity and texture browsers. - Fix layout problem in game path preferences. - Fix ESC key behavior in preference and About dialog. - Fix window position and size restoration problems. - Fix ESC key behavior when in clip mode. - Fix case sensitivity problems in open file dialog on Linux. - Fix layout of view dropdown window on Linux. - Fix texture lock for faces having +Y as their normal. - Show correct window icons. - Better support for dark UI themes. - Performance improvements. - Cosmetic changes. Downloads http://kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/downloads.php Changes
- Fix rendering views flashing on Windows (#1389). - Don't crash when Quake 2 game path is not set or cannot be found (#1388). Downloads http://kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/downloads.php Just tried the new beta in Windows 10. Selecting an issue, right-clicking and choosing a fix no longer fixes the issue. This was working fine in the previous beta.
Thanks for your continued development of TB. It's a fantastic tool. Also please give more information, e.g. What issue you were trying to fix etc.
Hello there! First please let me say thank you for this great editor. I was instantly able to create a cool 3d level, and it works on Linux, love it!
So now I have my level geometry (.map) and would like to try it in a game engine, add textures and entities to it, etc. As far as I have understood I need a compiler and a game engine so I can use it. How do I set this up in TrenchBroom? How can I add Textures and Models (entities)? Is there a way to use data (textures, model) from the apparently abandoned transfusion-environment (http://www.transfusion-game.com/)? Thanks again for any hints, L. If you look at the Transfusion SDk available here for download it's geared toward using Radiant based editors and the Quake 3 map format and assets.
Currently TrenchBroom 2 supports Hexen II, Quake and Quake 2, not Quake 3. Although Transfusion being based on the darkplaces engine will allow you to use the Q1 map format for TF it's probably not the best place to start if your fairly new to Quake mapping. Download the latest TB2 from it's website. Install it and actually read through the extensive documentation that comes with it located under the Help menu--> TrenchBroom Help or shortcut [Ctrl]+[H].
Some basic map info on the Quakewiki you might want to look at here:
https://quakewiki.org/wiki/Getting_Started_Mapping You can get some very nice Q1 map compile tools from here: http://ericwa.github.io/tyrutils-ericw/ Trenchbroom 2 Beta is super unstable for me, I would love to send crash report, but it crashes too :P
What I'm doing is snapping vertices on a 1 unit grid... Feature request! :) Rock primitive like J.A.C.K. Pick your number of faces, randomly generate valid brush.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x2p2ZD4vWg
This happened to me a while ago now but I never filed a report as the video was all I had. I was somehow able to select a group while it was hidden and this mess of lines happened. Should I make a bug report anyway? Doesn't seem like much help, i can't recreate it or anything. Yeah, I did. I wasn't sure if you got that! I'll file an issue, but all I can include is the video... I don't even have that version of the map any more.
"Due to how incredibly buggy TrenchBroom is I spend more time trying to work around the bugs (hello non-integer's)"
Ruh-roh. Is there actually an real issue with non-integer coordinates? I have these all over the place due to clipping tool (ab)use, but they never prevented me from compiling and playing the map I'm working on. Haven't run vis, though. Non-integer vertices are not so problematic per se. Non-integer plane points can be, but if you're using the clipping tool more than the vertex tool you might not have too many of those. Also depends on which brushes are affected and how.
I used to be very sloppy with my brushwork and had a lot of non-integer points/planes, and that never caused an issue with map compile. What really caused issues was vis, which would fail and would generate path files that went straight through solid brushes.
Not every "malformed" brush will cause this, but it's something that you need to be wary of, and test for as often as possible. You can then either fix the brush in question, or create another, simpler brush to cover the gap and help vis succeed. In a perfect world, math would be much different so there would be only one set of parameters for a numerically stable representation of a brush plane, and not an infinite amount that makes it hard to pick. This is what I really envy from mesh-based modeling. :P
Mesh-based modelling still suffers from non-planar quads, yet quads are recommended since because edge loops.
I've found that having large brush entities (even func_detail's) that extend into the void can cause the weird vis bug where a leak goes straight through a solid face. I found that enclosing the end point of the pointfile tracer with a solid world brush eliminated the leak. Enclose the end point that is in the void (blue end in JACK I believe). Changes
- Improved vertex manipulation with more degrees of freedom. - Improved vertex snapping. - Fixed crash when applying quick fixes. - Added #1408: Show warning for blank entity keys and values - Fixed #1423: TrenchBroom 2 not working in Windows XP - Fixed #1418: Angle values -1 and -2 not displayed for brush entities - Fixed #1402: Up and down arrow keys sometimes move objects along Z axis - Fixed #1401: Undo crash after rotation on Y axis - Fixed #1397: Crash when loading a map that was saved under a different name - Fixed #1395: Issues manager no longer fixing issues - Fixed #1394: CSG redo crash - Fixed #1393: Crash when when pressing keyboard shortcut to snap vertices - Fixed #1392: Bad performance when undoing / redoing Download http://kristianduske.com/trenchbroom New build is forthcoming with more fixes and one new feature: deleting vertices, edges and faces in vertex mode. Gearing up for 2.0.0 final now!
Do I remember correctly, but I remember seeing early videos of a new features coming up. One of the features was that you can draw freely shape in a brush's face and then draw same shape to another brush's face, and somehow those connected and created brush that has those two faces and connects facing vertices and creates solid brush.. it is really hard to explain.. but is that feature removed or something?
It's still a feature of TB2. Press [B] to activate and start clicking like you described.
Thanks, that will save a lot of time when making structures. Starts to wonder.. is there even more hidden features in manual (starts reading).
Help says that there should be a color chooser popping up under the entity properties list when I put a color property on said entity, a light for instance. So I place my light, click on "add new property", name it "color", but when I click on that property to set its value, no color chooser shows up, forcing me to "drive blind" by putting numbers by hand. What am I doing wrong?
Also, about said help: Every time it tells me to press a certain key, all I see is a blank space instead. I'm guessing it uses symbols that are not found on my computer. Anywhere I can download a full text version? Try using _color. I'm pretty sure that's the key name you need to use for TrenchBroom, i'm not sure if compilers understand color without the underscore either.
Would it be possible to have a hotkey for "Show Edges" as well as toggling the grid visibility? Hiding both is very helpful when making sure textures line up properly, and it's slow to use the menu vs. a keypress.
The other suggestion I have would probably be consolidating the View menus... they both do mostly different things, but it's a bit weird having two different menus named the same thing... Thank you Pritchard, that's progress. I didn't know about that underscore thing but I had no problem compiling without it so far. Now the color range selector, where I could theoretically choose between float and byte, shows up. New problem is I can't select either, no matter how hard I click - and the color chooser itself still doesn't show its mug, but I guess it's normal since I can't choose a range.
Try click-dragging that area of the window to expand it vertically. The radio buttons only work after you've already got values (they just swap the format)
Picture 1 Picture 2 For me, if I click on that black box, it opens a color picker menu where I can select my values. Previously selected values show up in the little palette on the right. Thanks again. It works. I tried dragging the line below it but it only reduced the size of the entity browser. I had to drag the line above up for the chooser to show.
Yeah, it's a pain. Trenchbroom tries to remember where you dragged those elements, but for me at least it forgets from time to time and I'm stuck with a view that's far too small to work in comfortably or really do anything. Another minor gripe I wish would be fixed but can't be bothered writing a pedantic ticket for...
There are more important things to implement/improve first. And it could be much worse, the elements of the interface could just be unresizable...
Now how about that full text help file? It isn't much of a help when I can't see which key to press for any action. It is nice to see actually talking about this color picker button.. I only wondered..
If I pick color using that color picker window popup.. it lists new colors to that list. This is just a small suggestion, but would it be possible to select yet highlight selected color from that list, also show that color in color picker button (or maybe create another button for that) and when clicking it, it would open that same color picker popup window and that selected color's values are written on those text boxes. Sometimes you want to work with same colors and only tweaking values just a bit (like lum/saturation), but don't want to set same values you have already used multiple times almost blindly. This would speed up colored lighting works a lot I believe. Also giving a color specific recognizable name would speed up picking right colors for different light entities. Name could be easily just simple string data, that will be shown when hovering color on that list of colors, doesn't sound too much work?
You can submit your feature requests via the [issue tracker] link in the original post above.
Maybe I'm blind, but weren't your posts as well part of feature/bug fixing requests (though not that straightforward like mine)? Now it is sent via the issue tracker too.
Do you still have problems? Pritchard : you can use number key 0 to toggle grid on and off, if that was what you were looking for?
That's why I told NewHouse to do so. I'll file a bug report for this help issue, I just wanted to know beforehand if there was a full text version available so as not to pester you with such a n00b request and detract you from more important work.
The one bundled with XP, i.e. IE (ayeee ayeee, that's funny!). Not by choice though: my main computer isn't connected to the internet so I can't install Firefox.
Trenchbroom tries to remember where you dragged those elements, but for me at least it forgets from time to time and I'm stuck with a view that's far too small to work in comfortably or really do anything.
This is now fixed: https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/1434 Please submit these problems on github. I can't fix what I don't know about. Yeah, I figured as much, hence my question about a full text file. Oh well, I guess I can still figure out the keys with help from the keyboard shortcut chart, but it won't be nearly as handy as a simple help file.
If you could install TB on that computer, you can install FF on that computer too...
I don't need a connection to install TB. I download my stuff elsewhere. The only connection I currently have is through my phone (yeah I know, I sound a bit like a caveman - with a phone). TBH I haven't checked about FF but usually, modern programs that use internet also need a connection to install.
There should be a hotkey to cycle between alternate clip planes when making a clip with only 2 control points. For example, if I select 2 points on opposite sides of a vertical cylinder (like a barrel) Trenchbroom will assume I want to slice it horizontally to make 2 stacked barrels. There should be an option slice in vertically (like splitting a log).
If you are talking about placing clip points in the 3D view, TrenchBroom already allows you to control how the clip plane is extrapolated from two points. It depends on where you place the two points; specifically, it depends on the normals of the faces on which you have placed the points. For example, if you place two clip points on a face whose normal points upwards, then the clip plane with be vertical. If you place the points on a plane whose normal points sideways, the clip plane will be horizontal. This should be enough in most situations.
In 2D views, the clip plane is always "top down", that is, the normal of the clip plane points sideways. There's no way around that. https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all/
Offline installers for firefox. Download and transfer to you PC with your phone as you did with TrenchBroom. Thanks xaGe. I wasn't aware of offline installers for FF. Also, it seemed pointless to me to install a web browser on an offline computer, so I never checked.
TrenchBroom lit a massive fire under my ass to take mapping seriously. Ive dabbled with BSP mapping for years...probably close to 10 but never took it seriously enough to care about releasing a full map. For the most part I just used it as a "sktechpad" of sorts. When I tried out TrenchBroom it answered a lot of prayers I had while working with Hammer and QuARK.
Thanks a million Sleepwalkr. Lately Ive learned a lot about the creative process and how to manage progression of my creativity. Hoping to get a Q1SP done in the next few...months. I'm feeling stupid, because I can't figure out how to fix this : https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwxYkKdSD855a0RHbUFpcDlacFE/view?usp=sharing
I have removed, remade, working on values (trying positive, no floating "float" values etc.). I haven't have this kind of problem ever before, even when working degrees that are more precise than 26.5. Normally something like this I was able to fix, just removing it and remaking it from scratch.. but not in this case. with tyrutils 0.15 you could get issues like that if you didn't use the -oldaxis flag.
SleepwalkR - I was using the latest stable release without the 2D views. I get what you're saying about the pre-selected clip plane orientation with 2 points. I'm just saying it would be nice to have a hotkey to cycle between alternate (horizontal/vertical) planes. Also if you select 2 clip points on different faces as in my barrel example, the default orientation isn't always logical.
I suppose an even nicer feature would be to have a rotation control around the clipping axis so that you can do the clip at any angle. This would be a lot quicker and more convenient in many cases than placing a 3rd point, I imagine. I havn't seen this feature in any other editor so it would be quite innovative. I've just looked into the issue again and realized that it might not be so bad as I originally thought.
Yes, the way the D3 editor represents brushes in a map file is inherently numerically unstable, because if for instance you translate a sloped surface represented like that, the little error adds up. I've saved a map with a slope and cut off a few digits of its normal vector in a text editor. Resaved the map, the numbers after the decimal points changed a bit, as was to be expected because there is the binary representation in memory vs. the textual decimal representation. Now... I've moved the brush slightly, and back into position, and poof, the numbers were exactly again as if I had just cut this slope freshly. I suspect the editor renormalizes all brushes that are manipulated in any way (an untouched brush wasn't changed like that). It's possible that internally, at runtime, they are represented as vertex meshes or with spanning vectors for the planes, and when saving, it's trimmed down to that simple but unstable plane equation representation. Without looking into the code, I guess when loading, the editor derives a more stable representation by looking at the computed corner vertices, and calculates spanning vectors aligned to a really fine grid from vertices it picks as it best sees fit, to work with while it's running. This math is more precise and less error-prone the closer the architecture is to the world origin. It's an interesting approach... and it solves a bit of the uncertainty when spanning vectors get too extreme, and being faced with the problem of checking for that and calculating better vectors. Are you using arbitrary face alignment.* You might want to try world instead of arvitrary or face alignment.
*Please note that I don't know Trenchbroom handles arbitrary alignment feature of ALT+RightClick that other editors have so talking out of experience with other editors here. (I sent email) I went through my map file, and tried to put replace integer values in some cases where some numbers really wanted to be "close to" integer value 0.5.. values like 0.499999999 = 0.5 etc. I have no idea about those values, are those really suppose to be not like set in editor or does it have to do something with coding language and how Math works in the end.
Though that didn't fixed my issue, hopefully this will be solved some way (even idiotic way).. maybe I need to create new map, and start copying same brushes from this map or something. I have no idea what you mean by that (have no experience), but in TB I select brush's faces and just rotate them.. so is that called 'arbitrary face alignment'?.
Thx, sometimes I wish I could have born in USA or Britain, so I couldn't need to use dictionary all the time. But that article seems like, it has some important information.
Error unkown option 'oldaxis', I tried to put it on Qbsp : Txqbsp.exe -> command line arguments -> -oldaxis
Am I doing something wrong in here? I didn't get the email, mind sending it again?
Also you mentioned tyruttils 0.15.5 which is my compiler pack (tyrutils-ericw), but you also mentioned txqbsp which is a different compiler. Are you sure you tried my qbsp too? Thank you, it fixed it* I have to continue mapping to see, did it actually fix all of the texture related problems I had.. this Txqbsp.exe, was it recommended in some website because I ended up using it? Ealier qbsps gave me errors or something like that.. but now it went flawlessly, you been doing a lot of updates recently I assume*
Thank you again. I couldn't reproduce the problem in either tyrutils-ericw or txqbsp-xt; maybe you had an old txqbsp.exe
Quaddicted recommends Txqbsp here, which I think is a large part of why people are using that older compiler. It's the reason I was still using it when I sent you that email a ~month ago ericw (I was too lazy to change my
I must be equally as lazy not yet lazier, oh well - there is many updates to keep eye on. Some cases updates has been many so easy and automatic that we don't actually need to even thing about it.
First of all, thanks for the recent updates, SleepwalkR!
Secondly, sorry for having been absent and not having contributed bug reports for ages. Real life issues keep getting in the way of mapping/testing. Thirdly, I'm having trouble installing the latest Beta on Linux -- can anyone help? I've downloaded the Error: Dependency is not satisfiable: libstdc++6 (>=5.2) Not sure what this means, and couldn't find answers on the web that I could understand. I thought maybe it meant that I don't have the right version of libstdc++ installed, but according to Synaptic I do have libstdc++6 installed I've dug around a bit more. I guess I used "libstdc++6" incorrectly above; I assumed "libstdc++" was the name and "6" the version number, but it looks like the library itself is called "libstdc++6" (I knew there was a good chance I was writing gibberish, as I don't know much about this stuff), and as far as I can tell, I have version 4.8 installed -- and if I'm interpreting that error message correctly, I need 5.2 or higher
This, however, suggests that I can't upgrade only libstdc++6; I would have to upgrade/reinstall my entire OS to a higher version Or have I misunderstood everything, and there's actually a far simpler solution? I think you're right, you need mint 18 for libstdc++6 5.x.
There's an ubuntu package search website that will show you what versions of a package are available in which ubuntu version: http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/libstdc++6 You just need to check which ubuntu version a version of linux mint is based on, convert the number like "ubuntu 14.04" to those annoying names ubuntu uses like "trusty". Alternative: building from source may be less hassle than doing an OS upgrade? Ubuntu has long term support builds, like I am using at the moment.
I'm using version 16.04 LTS. If you want long term stability I suggest using a build like this. and thanks for the package search link/info.
Do you mean build TB2 from source, as opposed to using the deb package? Would that bypass the libstdc++6 issue? It'd be great if that would mean not having to do a fresh OS install. However, I'm not entirely sure how to go about it. I see that clicking on "source" on the TB home page directs you to the TB github page. Does this mean I'd need to use github to build from source? I used to install/update TB2 via github when it was still in alpha, but around the time of the first beta release SleepwalkR wrote about having switched to git flow, and I don't really what that is or how one uses it (I barely understood how to use github before the switch). Or is git flow just something used for the intermediary builds? Is it possible to do one of the following in Trenchbroom?
(1) move the camera to a location specified by xyz coordinates. (2) select the entity/brush closest to some specified xyz coordinates. ---- Compile tools and the quake engine often spit out errors in the form or ABC went wrong at coordinates xyz, but I struggle to find xyz in the editor to locate the problematic brush/entity. Menu > View > Camera > Move Camera to
You can't select an object closest to a location however. I'm not sure how accurate that would be, anyway. If it's not unambiguous, it would be misleading. Sorry for not responding earlier..
Do you mean build TB2 from source, as opposed to using the deb package? Would that bypass the libstdc++6 issue? It'd be great if that would mean not having to do a fresh OS install. Yes, I meant building from source as opposed to the deb package. I *think* it would bypass the libstdc++6 issue. However, if you did upgrade Linux mint, isn't there an "upgrade" feature in the OS that would avoid having to do a fresh install? Ubuntu has that. Building TB from source on Linux is a bit involved because you need to patch and compile wxWidgets yourself. TB's instructions are good though. Re: git flow, the current branch is "release/v2.0.0". So if you are building from source, you would do a fresh git clone, then "git checkout release/v2.0.0", then follow the build instrutions in Build.txt If you're not really comfortable with building from source, upgrading the OS is probably the way to go, but I'm not sure what to suggest really. Sorry for not responding earlier..
No worries; thanks for responding -- I really appreciate it! This clears up a lot. I have built TB2 from source before, back before the release of the first beta, and I seem to recall having to compile wxWidgets back then too. As long as I have good and clear instructions I should manage Speaking of stupid questions, I have a couple already: TB's instructions are good though. Are these the instructions you mean? do a fresh git clone Errr, how do I do that again? This is the part where you basically download all the files you then later use to build the programme, right? I remember having done it, but I can't remember how one does it, and Build.txt doesn't seem to say. Are these the instructions you mean?
No, those are the ones from the "master" branch which is outdated. here is the current build.txt. Errr, how do I do that again? This is the part where you basically download all the files you then later use to build the programme, right? Run these commands in a terminal: (this assumes you don't currently have a TrenchBroom subdirectory in the current directory) git clone https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom cd TrenchBroom git checkout release/v2.0.0 The "git clone" is more than just downloading the source code, it downloads every branch and change made to the TB source code. It initially gives you the "master" branch in the TrenchBroom directory, which is outdated code, which is why the "git checkout" command is needed to switch to the latest code (release/v2.0.0). That's very clear.
I'm afraid I'm about to post a response to your offer for help in the Mapping Help thread that might make you lose your faith in humanity... OK, so I've finally installed Firefox on my computer and the help file now displays properly. It mentions a [CMD] key that I believe is found on Macs. The Windows equivalent is [CTRL], correct?
SleepwalkR, is it feasible to make it so that the help file automatically displays the right key depending on the user's OS When I double click on a group of brushes, I am able to select and edit the individual brushes within that group (e.g. by holding shift and extruding contiguous selected faces).
If I double click on a group and press Ctrl+A then it selects all of the brushes in the group, which is the behaviour I would expect. But then I don't seem to be able to edit the brushes in the same was if I had selected them manually. Is this intended behaviour? When placing clip points in 3D view, could you add an option to trace/glue the points onto the selected brushes only (i.e. the ones about to be clipped). Currently, if there are any obstructing, non-selected brushes the clip points will instead glue to their surfaces, which is usually not desirable.
Im working on reproducing some vert manipulation errors and I'll add it to Pritchards issue report.
Basically, theres times I move verts with arrow keys and the verts deselect. I then have to select them again and can continue moving in my intended direction. Additonally, "snap to integer" appear broken. Any attempt to "snap to integer" crashes. This is all on 2f3c498. ...to the conversation on the "best editor" thread:
SleepwalkR said: "You can select the axis yourself, it's the one you have moved the farthest distance on. Why is that difficult to handle? I'm asking out of genuine interest - maybe I can improve it?" Maybe a better way would be to select either x or y axis beforehand with a simple toggle key like [ALT] does with the z axis? That was mentioned in the best editor thread. That only applies once you've already begun moving the vert.
Maybe instead of holding [SHIFT] AFTER you've started dragging a vertex, it would be best to have two different keys to select the axis BEFOREHAND, like for example [SHIFT] for the x axis and the >/< key next to it for the y axis. Or maybe even simplier and more intuitively, [X] and [Y] keys. The latter would imply using the [Z] key for z axis lock, freeing [ALT] for other context-sensitive manipulations. Sleep, does that sound good to you?
How about having a separate right-click functionality. You can keep free movement of vertices/edges on the left-click, but have right-click draw some axis arrows on the vert so you can click and drag on the axis you want to use.
Maybe a better way would be to select either x or y axis beforehand with a simple toggle key like [ALT] does with the z axis?
The problem is that it's very hard to select the correct axis that way. Either you make it relative to the camera, i.e., left/right and forward/backward, but then it becomes guesswork if the camera angle is close to a multiple of 45 degrees. Or you make it so that the keys are hard wired to a specific axis, (i.e., X locks to X axis always), but then you still have to take a moment and think about which axis you wanted to lock to. We already had that system in an earlier revision, and it did not work very well. The current system allows you to select the lock axis by moving the mouse into the direction in which you want to go anyway. It's simply the best option IMO and I don't see why it shouldn't work. You can keep free movement of vertices/edges on the left-click, but have right-click draw some axis arrows on the vert so you can click and drag on the axis you want to use. Right click is already used for other purposes. What you're suggesting boils down to using a handle like many professional modeling tools do: https://phoenixanimation.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/translate_handle1.png We have toyed with this idea a couple of years ago, and it has its merits. But in the end I decided against it because it requires you to click into precise areas to select the axis of movement. The system we have now is essentially liftet from SketchUp, and I think it is far superior to all of the above ideas. So far you guys have made suggestions how axis lock could be done, but you haven't mentioned any particular scenarios where the current system doesn't work, or I have missed it. What is the problem, apart from that you may be used to doing things differently from other programs? But in the end I decided against it because it requires you to click into precise areas to select the axis of movement and I wanted the user to be able to just click and drag on objects to move them. That was the main reason for the current system, and it's a big part of why TB is regarded as intuitive by many users.
Having basically only used TB and TB2 for my Quake editing needs, I can say I find the navigation, commands, and everything else work great! I actually only use the 3D view! (So far)
I mentioned my problems in the other thread and I think you responded to it. When I try shaping brushes to match the curvature of, say, an arch texture, I have a lot of troubling getting an edge to slide along only the x-axis. In the current system, to reliably move an edge/vertex in the direction you want you must position the camera above the vertex so your viewing angle is large. But if you do that, then you usually can't see the texture you're trying to match in the first place. If I want to see the texture, I have to make the camera coplanar with the x-axis, which makes dragging something on the x-axis almost impossible. That's why we need lock functions. I think a bind to enable handles on a vertex/edge would be very useful.
and I appreciate your feedback. My main objective is to make TB as easy to use as possible.
Can you post a screenshot of the situation you were describing in post 2315? I think I understand it, but I'm not sure. [QUOTE]Or you make it so that the keys are hard wired to a specific axis, (i.e., X locks to X axis always), but then you still have to take a moment and think about which axis you wanted to lock to.[/QUOTE]
I don't see much difference between taking a moment to check the axis and taking a (possibly longer) moment to position the camera. The advantage of my solution is that holding [X], [Y] or [Z] seems more intuitive than the current system (which is already very good, as Bloughsburgh said) and it would solve Sevin's problem. I don't see how it wouldn't work very well. On a side note, MWHEEL click+drag to position the view currently stops the camera panning when the cursor hits the screen borders. Would it be possible to make it continue infinitely? I'm not at home right now, but I will when I get back. If this clarifies any more, I'm just working with a vertical brush that I want to chop around a door texture. The situation I'm describing is when I'm trying to create the actual arch brushes. I'll make a video when I get home for you.
Off-topic (sorry): How do you guys make your quotations white like that? I thought the [QUOTE] tag would do the trick but apparently not.
The advantage of my solution is that holding [X], [Y] or [Z] seems more intuitive than the current system (which is already very good, as Bloughsburgh said) and it would solve Sevin's problem. I don't see how it wouldn't work very well.
Well, maybe you don't see it, but it was tried and discarded for the very reason that it doesn't work. The argument that it may prevent you from having to reposition the camera does not hold for me because 1) expecting to not have to move the camera in a 3D view is unrealistic IMO and 2) you can use orbit mode to very quickly reposition the camera. It looks like we'll have to agree to disagree. Or you can try if one of the older betas still contains the old axis locking (the first 2.0 beta might) and see for yourself why it doesn't work better than what we have now. Or maybe it works better for you, but I'm afraid that I'm not inclined to change it again. On a side note, MWHEEL click+drag to position the view currently stops the camera panning when the cursor hits the screen borders. Would it be possible to make it continue infinitely? That's a limitiation with wxWidgets on Windows and unfortunately there's nothing I can do about it. Or maybe it works better for you, but I'm afraid that I'm not inclined to change it again.
That's OK, I'm used to it by now. I was speaking from the perspective of the total n00b who tackles TB for the first time (which I was just a few weeks ago). unfortunately there's nothing I can do about it.Damn. Oh well, fly mode can serve as a workaround, but it would've been nice to be able to do that. Sat down to record and I can't open the map I was working on. I tried other maps from AD and the base maps and they all through the same error:
"Cannot load compilation configuration 'Quake\CompilationProfiles.cfg': Unexpected character: $ [line 7, column 22]" I'm guessing this was caused when I tried setting up a compile process, but I can't launch any maps because of it and I can't find the file. Please create a report on github and attach the file located at
C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\TrenchBroom\games\Quake\CompilationProfiles.cfg C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\TrenchBroom\games\Quake\CompilationProfiles.cfg
Where USERNAME is your, well, user name. I don't know of any alternative libraries apart from Qt, but how bound to WxWidgets is TB anyway? It kind of feels like it's limiting the application in a few ways these days, like with that dragging issue I opened on Github and the inability to lock the cursor to the window.
I can't imagine UI development is much fun, so I don't blame you for not wanting to move away from what you already have, but it is getting a bit painful to see such annoyances. blank origin key followed by entirely blank key
It's pretty annoying; brushes seem to develop this seemingly at random without even being interacted with half of the time, and will either begin to appear slightly displaced in a compiled map or will completely dissappear and instead show up at the bottom of the level in-game. I'd open an issue on github, but I wanted to check here first since there are a few factors to consider, and like a similar blank property issue I haven't been able to reproduce it on demand. The main issue is that I'm developing for AD, and so my thinking is that this could somehow be an issue with the Getting this part figured out would be great, I'd feel a lot more confident opening a github issue if I knew it was a TB problem and not an AD problem. I use TB, and I have never seen this happen.
I am also creating a map using AD so it could be the I'm using the AD
You seem to be the only one with this issue. Are you using another editor together with TB? Or it might be that you are using the entity property grid in an unexpected way, maybe you are trying to use keyboard shortcuts there, or you are using keyboard shortcuts with the intention of doing something in the 3D view, but the focus is on the entity property grid?
I have same kind of issues. Items aren't in same place after compiling, than what they were in TB's editor view. In fact If I open my map in older version of TB versions 1. something, it clearly shows that in fact those are in different place than what it was in TB2.. that is why I place items in TB1 only.
Or maybe I'm missing again something:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwxYkKdSD855UVptNmQ4TmZ6em8/view?usp=sharing I mean.. the one in TB1 screenshot represent real actual position where it actually lands in game. Would it be possible that there is something wrong in AD.fgd?... but to be honest, this same happened during base jam. So either both has something wrong in fgds or something is different in TB2 than what was in TB1 when it comes to item placing. (x,y,z position).
I've seen that issue as well, all the items in my AD map have to be off center by about 16 units or so. It's like the center is actually one of the corners in TB, it's pretty easy to compensate for once you realize.
For some reason, I thought there was already an issue for this, but I can't find it... I might take some screenshots when I get home and create one. Can you create an issue with a minimal example? Does it affect all entities of a certain type, or only specific ones?
I'm not sure it's an issue with TB right now, rather the
video In the compiled level, the entity appears in the place where it was at the start of the video, rather than the one shown when using the ad Also, TB freezes really hard when you switch to an entity file and don't have the appropriate mod directory selected, when it starts working again the console is spammed with missing model errors. Not a big deal, except when you're switching a bunch as I was just doing... I tested with a few types of entity, and at least for this fgd it only seems to appear with health and ammo entities: image If you like, I can open an issue on github with this evidence attached. Not sure how much of this is TB's problem, though... Building special cases to handle problems in 3rd-party files is a dangerous path to tread. One thing to note from the AD readme:
Mappers : The editor : the worldspawn entity to have "no_item_offset" set to 1 float no_item_offset; // All ammo/heal items use central point rotation My understanding is, the AD fgd/def are designed with the origin for health boxes to be in the center of the model, and you're supposed to set "no_item_offset" "1" in the worldspawn of custom maps. The idea is AD can also run vanilla id1 maps which use the origin of health pack entities as the corner of the model. I dislike creating github issues for things until I'm more certain. I've been consulting the AD readme a fair bit lately as I toil, but I didn't find that part in the places I looked! I set the key, and now... all my items are in the wrong place. Well, they're where the editor says they are, but that's wrong in the map since I'd been compensating for my idiocy this entire time. Time to unset it and remember for next time...
Whenever I move a selection that contains a func_detail, the detail doesnt follow properly. it progressively gets more off grid as the further I move it.
Is it a problem on my end or trenchbroom? do other users experience this? Its a pretty glaring problem that seemingly hasnt been reported, or otherwise im missing it on github. This happens in the most 2 recent betas, Ive yet to build from source as its something I've never done. Ill tackle the intimidation factor soon enough, I'm sure. Yeah - I had that as well. If it's the same thing you're experiencing, it should only happen when you use the "select touching" command: https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/1409
It was fixed a few days after the latest beta came out (spet 6), so you'll have to avoid using "Select touching" until the next beta is released. Is there any way to "deselect" the current texture, so that TB will create untextured brushes again, like it does before you select your first texture? I've been putting up with it for months because it's really just a pet peeve, but I prefer to build the foundation of my map without texturing and then texture and add detail later. Having to either deal with crappy, distracting textures/colours (I know you can disable texture rendering, but the textures still show up when you actually load the map) or restarting the application when I want to work on a new area is kinda lame.
One advantage of using the default texture to me is that it helps to spot untextured spots; they show up very well since in QS at least they're always fullbright, so it can help me find areas i've missed. Currently no.
Ive been meaning to suggest it along with some other texture based ideas/issues. currently, you can select a face with shift+LMB and then apply that texture to another face with alt+LMB (you can also apply it to a whole brush by alt+double LMB). Id like to be able to "paint" by dragging the brush similar to how youre able to ctrl+LMB and select multiple brushes. also, while a texture is selected itd be nice to either paint or apply that texture with its current coordinates or default. also, while a texture is selected itd be nice to either paint or apply that texture with its current coordinates or default.
Try holding ctrl+alt, it should not copy the attributes in that case. currently, you can select a face with shift+LMB and then apply that texture to another face with alt+LMB (you can also apply it to a whole brush by alt+double LMB). Id like to be able to "paint" by dragging the brush similar to how youre able to ctrl+LMB and select multiple brushes.
That's a good idea. Submit a feature request please. Nevermind, I've already changed it. Deselect everything, then click on the selected texture in the browser and it will deselect. Will be in the next beta.
I've just noticed something: when I load the Arcane Dimensions
I had no idea there was a
Now I have INFORMATION in the editor itself! For TB2 I had more success with the Fgd, it provides all of the keys and values I am expecting for AD. Furthermore I tweaked it to show models depending on what spawnflags are present (dangle, megahealth, etc)
I do recall TB having much better luck with so I can't comment too much on that version. Everytime I dip into it there's something different or new it feels.
I haven't been able to justify making the leap into it fulltime yet as I feel my workflow is better in TB1. since Sleep implemented support for WinXP.
Better To Avoid The Fgd I've read somewhere that OK then, I'll use the Everytime I dip into it there's something different or new it feels. Pretty much like any other program under active development... Wow :o i couldn't stand TB1, camera movement etc. was really laggy on my system. TB2 is buttery smooth by comparison. That alone was enough to make me take the leap.
Never really suffered with TB1. Infact a lot of my maps were made on TB1 when my main PC was a Surface Pro 1. So I made a lot of maps on a tiny 11" screen. Plus the power of a Surface Pro isn't amazing by any stretch of the imagination.
I'm on a pretty decent machine these days and it runs just as good as before Only thing i miss from TB1 is the neat search bar. Saw on github sleep is reworking it for the full release of TB2, though.
I figure the more I use the beta the more help i can be to get the final product done sooner, well minus the fact i have no coding skill. Most of my brushwork has been done in Hammer so Trenchbroom is a breath of fresh air in a lot of ways. Just setup compile settings, and I was wondering what the "export map" step does. I assume it must do something other than just copying the file. Is this some kind of pre-processing step before sending the map to qbsp?
J.A.C.K or Worldcraft or Hammer exports it from rmf,vmf,jmf etc. into a
Trenchbroom works with Bonus: Rmf - Rich map format used by Worldcraft and older Hammer versions. Vmf - Valve map format used by newer Hammer versions (Source engine) Jmf - Used by J.A.C.K and its predecessor Jackhammer (same thing, was recently renamed) There are alternate x versions: rmx, vmx, jmx that are used for autosaves if you have it turned on. Hi!
I'm using build "2f3c498 RelWithDebInfo" on Windows and I'm trying to get Trenchbroom to launch Quakespasm, but alas, I get the error message "W LoadWadFile : couldn't load gfx.wad". I set Quakespasm's game path in Trenchbroom to "C:/Users/Esrael/Desktop/Games/Quakespasm" and did the following engine configuration: "C:/Users/Esrael/Desktop/Games/Quakespasm/quakespasm.exe" Why does Quakespasm refuse to work, even if Trenchbroom finds all the entities from the id1 pak files just fine while I'm editing the map with the above mentioned settings? Am I doing something wrong? Mind you, Quakespasm does work, when I launch it outside the editor. Of course, I could test my map this way, but I want to be able to use all the features of Trenchbroom. Has anybody had similar experiences? @Esrael
its an issue with the betas. https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/1428 If youre comfortable with building from source, the issue has been fixed but hasnt been released yet. That might be a bug in TB. The "couldn't load gfx.wad" error means that the engine couldn't locate the id1 directory in the current working directory.
As a workaround, try adding "-basedir C:/Users/Esrael/Desktop/Games/Quakespasm" to the "Parameters" text field in TB's Launch Engine window. Wow, thanks for the fast response guys! =)
The workaround seems to be working like a charm, so in the mean time, while I'm waiting for the release with the bug fixed, I'll just use that. anyone willing to walk me through building TB from source?
Ive never built from source or anything in this order. Downloaded Visual Studio and everything, but I think I dont have the proper versions. Got to this point and had to give up. CMakeError.log just goes on and on like this: "Compiling the C compiler identification source file "CMakeCCompilerId.c" failed. Compiler: cl Build flags: Id flags: The output was: The system cannot find the file specified" command prompt is telling me about vcvarsall.bat, which has to do with visual studio? :cries in corner: Is there any chance of seeing a new beta release any time soon? It's been a while since the last one, and although I imagine the goal might be to hit full release with the next update, there have been a lot of changes since the last one. For some of those, it's fixing bugs that I myself created and would rather like to enjoy the fruits of having the fixes.
I know I could compile it myself, but as I understand it the process is quite complicated due to the need to compile several different things seperately and so on. I'm not really that level of user unfortunately, so yeah... It won't kill me if I have to wait until full release for TB2, but a new beta would be nice. Agreed on the build being complicated. Tried to tackle it and had to give up.
Fortunately, Ericw came to the rescue with a recent build. https://ci.appveyor.com/project/kduske/trenchbroom/build/2.0.0-appveyor-65/artifacts now, GO MAP. or...yknow. hangout. up to you. It's totally understandable that you're busy SleepwalkR, and it's even easier for me to be cool with that thanks to the ericw and the link mukor posted :D
Is it okay to submit bugs that are from that interim build that was just posted? I found this but I'm not sure if it's okay to create an issue for a 3rd party build of the program.
I'd say submit the bug, I'll take the blame if it's an invalid bug for some reason ;)
(That build I made is the current latest code from release/v2.0.0 and it's built by TrenchBroom's CI system, so there shouldn't be anything weird about it.) FWIW I think I hit that bug of things going off grid as well, haven't had a chance to investigate it though.. Personally, I try to avoid using 3-point clip whenever I can. I find it not very intuitive and often end up clipping out the part that I wanted to keep. It's quite common for me to have to do multiple tries to find the correct camera angle that will make the clip tool perform like I intended. In many cases it's faster to just do it in vertex mode.
Hopefully this will help de-mystify what the third point is for, at least to the point where you understand it as well as I do (I'm moderately sure this is all it can do).
Here's a standard, 2-point clip: http://i.imgur.com/7Mkebev.png Then... Bam! 3rd point: http://i.imgur.com/tvD7hDK.png Try it yourself. Drag the 3rd point around and watch as the angle of the clip changes. Obviously this is a very basic example, but the general idea of it is that you can change the angle of your cut with this method. I find it most useful for when TB doesn't "get" what you're trying to do because the 1st and 2nd points are too vague, since you can easily direct exactly how you want your cut to work using it. Another cool trick is placing all your points on a flat plane, like so: http://i.imgur.com/RuVVxLs.png http://i.imgur.com/w730DjK.png The third point tells TB that you actually want a horizontal cut, so you can easily perform that style of cut. Here are some more fun cuts: http://i.imgur.com/lqmFJRF.png http://i.imgur.com/hxoVyW9.png http://i.imgur.com/rkOTdiv.png Hopefully that helps people figure out what the 3rd point is for. Bonus points for knowing the shortcut if you wish to use an existing face as a clipping plane! It'a in the manual ;-)
A good tip is...unless you need another brush to snap a clipping point to, isolate the brush to be clipped.
If you try to place a clipping point at the edge of a brush where it meets another brush, sometimes itll get placed on the other brush. I switched my "Hide" "Isolate" and "Unhide" to H I and U for this and other reasons. Thank you, Sleep, for implementing issue 1465 "Always show edges of selected brush" and 1460 "inspector keys open inspector window when closed"
Didnt even consider theyd be in the build eric provided so they were a very pleasant surprise to run into. "Oh hey thats me!" I made some good progress on 1499 recently and things are looking better. Hopefully I'all be able to provide new official builds soon.
i'm learning the very basics of brush work
it's possible to move clipping points with arrow keys, like moving vertex points in the vertex edit mode? or i just have to drag the orange dots? can i snap the clipping points to edges and vertices of other objects? or the only snapping is to the grid? i'm better off in general using CGS substracting if i want to avoid brushes with intersections? another very basic question: when you are resizing a face with non-parallel convexing lines (i don't know how to say it) like this: http://imgur.com/a/oe08L in one point the lines intersect. is there a way to resize until the two vertices intersect in a point (like a cone) or a line (like a wedge)? btw i get the 3-point clipping. you need three linearly independent points to define a plane, and the editor makes a "guess" when using 2-point clipping to define a plane. it's like slicing a brush with a cutter Be sure to check out the help file in About > Help for the basics on a lot of your questions.
If you still have issues post back! ok...
i quote from the help "Note that you cannot change the number of faces of a brush by with the resize tool." i missed that enterely. i think it might be useful. perhaps it's unnecesary, i don't know. also, it's 'converging lines', that's what i meant. -- "Alternatively, you can add two clip points at once by dragging with the left mouse." and "In the 3D viewport, you can only place clip points on already existing brushes, whereas in the 2D viewports, you can place them anywhere." now i don't need to move clip points with the arrows. -- CGS substracting is a question of the type of "is good practice or not?" -- it seems that i can't snap directly to objects, so it's better to snap brushes to the grid and zoom if they are separated by 1 unit. and using clipping, CGS and vertex. Glad to see the Help file
As far as subtracting goes, I think it has come a long way...TB2 handles it fairly well. One thing I do is if I have an odd shape I plan to subtract, I will cut the brush into as small of a square as I can around the subtracting brush. That way there isn't so many crazy things going on after the operation! For things like basic shaped hallways and such it it probably best to just create the brushes to form said opening. I can never seem to do arches with any consistency. It's not that the end result is bad but I just seem to do mine by trial and error. How do other mappers approach creating an arched doorway? I am using TB2 and would love to how others approach this.
Ive had the outline for an arch tutorial in my head for a few weeks. Lemme whip something up for ya. I think itll make quick sense of the black magic of arches.
That would be greatly appreciated. And it seems like we have some new blood on Func who would benefit from this too.
You've got the right idea and it's good to see you trying it on your own before asking for help!
TLDR: Triangles! http://imgur.com/a/tmtmz Thanks guys - this is really great and the key for me was slicing the inside corner (step 4). What I have been doing is clipping large sections of square shapes and "lifting" the vertices into position.
http://imgur.com/8YZlU6x Clipping is so powerful when you see it done "correctly." Thanks again. My bad for starting it here, I honestly thought I had posted originally in Mapping Help but saw the replies here. Going senile.
Mugwump: Refer to post #2408 in this thread. I gave an arch tutorial that specifically mentions "for TrenchBroom 2". He is 100% in the right to post a response here...cause...well thats where the discussion originated. The tutorial mentions keyboard shortcuts specific to TrenchBroom.
topher: im glad i could be of some help. curved shapes troubled me for quite some time. Honestly, I don't mind and it's not that big of a deal in the first place, but a) the question could have garnered more editor-independent answers than Mukor's TB-specific reply and b) I know people here can be a little sensitive over this kind of things.
Thanks for sharing your technique Muk!
Would have been great to have had this when I was banging my head on how to create them last year! maybe we went a little offtopic
on topic "face convex merging" is this a feature? i didn't see it in the help this software is very intuitive and full of shortcuts to save time in a few days and aprox 6 hours of fiddling and some reading i'm getting confortable with shaping this simple brushes http://imgur.com/a/IIcQ1 Convex merge is a fantastic feature and it looks like you already got the hang of it! To be honest, I don't know if I realized face selection would work with merging but I assume it is intended.
Keep going topher! Is the lag when clipping a large amount of brushes at once a known issue?
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/f8im492wkzjic2a/2016-12-21_00-13-13.mp4 I ask because although I've been living with it for a while (like many tb2 bugs - I'm really bad at reporting in a timely manner...), the more I trisoup for this map, the more of my time it takes up. It'd be nice to at least have a "won't fix" response, but I'm skeptical of submitting an issue because it may simply be something that comes with the territory of the operation... I have encountered this before, sometimes it can happen with just a large brush that I am cutting in half. A bit random at times but infrequent enough that I never regarded it as an issue.
Doesn't hurt to submit an issue regardless. Seriously. I'm providing this app for free. The only price you have to pay is reporting the issues you find. Let me decide whether or not they are relevant. Don't sit on issues out of doubt whether they are issues or not.
I have this irrational fear of annoying people by filling up their issue tracker... If I were running the project, I'd be obsessed with getting the open tickets down to 0 at all times...
I need to stop projecting. Noticing some... aliasing? is that the right word?
Noticing it on the version you just linked Eric. http://imgur.com/a/MA4IL JUUUUST opened it up so thats all I have for now. Ill be getting intimate with TB over the next few hours and Ill report back here or go straight to github with anything else. Yeah, my bad, i couldve been clearer on "previous build". But yep, the last version you linked me was without the aliasing issue present in the current build.
Well thanks for letting me flex my computer know how!
i figured out I can set up AA for specific programs through my video settings! Unfortunately, we'll never get it down to 0 anyway. Don't worry about it. The issue tracker is more like a todo list.
Yep, lack of AA on the latest linked build.
However, I did try to reproduce the crash on map switch that I reported and I could not get it to crash! my mac is running osx 10.6.8 with opengl2.1 and glsl1.2 - when i run trenchbroom 2.0 out of my applications folder it gives me an error saying not compatible with this version mac. any suggestions? i am looking forward to using trenchbroom to work on quake 2 maps in particular. thank you for making this software - really appreciate the time and care you are putting in.
Are the appveyor builds supposed to be usable? Or do I still need to rely on the guru/wizards of this thread for new builds of TB? I tried downloading the "Latest Build" from there, but it seems to be gutted and non-functional - no art (logo, icons), supported games list is empty, etc.
The recent build is without a build number. I dont think that specific build is to be usable at the moment.
A new build with the fixed context menus would be cool, though. AA can wait as one can set it through their video settings. Im interested in using https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/1526 and https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/1527 Pritchard, they should be usable, however, the "Latest build" button in Appveyor is not reliable at the moment, because it includes test builds for feature branches. It looks like a change earlier today may have caused the "gutted and non-functional" breakage.. I will check it out.
@mukor, the f7fe54e build I posted yesterday should have those two features for the key/value editor :) There have been a lot of fixes today so I hope to post an updated build tomorrow. I used to get the latest builds of 2.x off sleepwalker's Dropbox. Where can I get the latest builds for PC? I'm a bit lost on github and cannot compile the code.
Right now I am using the build from the website (2f3c498?) TrenchBroom-Win32-2.0.0-Interim-0e1a90a-RelWithDebInfo.7z
The pauses Pritchard reported when clipping, the entities in the right click menu, and antialiasing are fixed, plus some other fixes in the issue tracker. 7-zip is giving me weird trouble too: http://i.imgur.com/YgXqBBX.png
No problems extracting here. Maybe retry the download? Perhaps something was corrupted.
Clipping things feels so much nicer now! Getting rid of slowdowns and hangs goes a long way to improving the feel of the application. I'll be sure to report anything else I run into. "Can not delete output file" - sounds like there is an existing install, try extracting into a fresh directory, or maybe re-download.
And thanks Sleep for keeping on improving it. Will DL and install later this evening.
Does Trenchbroom in it's current state support any way of applying RGB textures in say, a Quake 1 level? If not, will it ever have Quake 3 BSP support?
As for the second question, TB does not support any BSP format. It reads and writes map files. Assuming you meant to ask, "Will it ever have Quake 3 support?", then the answer is yes:
https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/583 But I can't say when. I'd like to do it for 2.1 though. Im talking about full color textures that aren't limited to Quake's 8 bit color pallete or whatever limitation Quake 2 has.
According to a post by MadGypsy in this thread: http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-talk/quake-central/12548-fte-lightmapping-quake-3-format-bsp.html, Quake 3 doesn't support paletted
Just installed Trenchboom to see if it would work. And indeed, it shows up well. Made the setup in my Quake directory and choosed the preference file.
In the texture editor I have a view for the monsters and items. My texture files are all blanked out, so I use the glass near the Groups and Used to look for my wad file. It won't show up. Is there a way to make them so, like a path to my wad file? I can open a map but my txtbrowser is blanked out.
First of all, Windows XP is no longer officially supported. Second of all, you should be using TB 2. Third of all, you can read the manual (Help menu) to find out how to load textures.
there was a contribution that added support for loading textures from loose files. I think it supported jpg and tga or something like that. It will not be included in TB 2.0 however.
Windows XP is no longer officially supported.
But you did fix this issue some time ago. My TB2 works fine in XP (build 2f3c498). Are you saying that the more recent builds won't work again? TrenchBroom-Win32-2.0.0-Interim-f7fe54e-RelWithDebInfo and TrenchBroom-Win32-2.0.0-Interim-0e1a90a-RelWithDebInfo.7z
both give a "MSVCP140.dll" was not found. TrenchBroom_Win32_1.1.6_381.zip works fine on Wi nXp, both S2 S3 Servicepacks and Visualbasic2010. Strange my items and monsters do appear while textures won't. Try the build I mentioned in post #2460, it works fine on my XP SP3. Go to the link provided in the first post, click Download, then Windows, and scroll down the page to find it: oddly, the page displays the 1.16 builds first. As for the missing dll, I bet it's because you need to install the Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 redistributable package (it's a requirement mentioned on the download page).
Welp. That was definitely a thing. I found the goody characters rather boring and undeveloped and impossible to give a shit about. Rather charmless. New baddy Krennic chap was good though. However I liked the film overall - a lot actually - because once it gets going, the action is balls-to-the-wall amazeballs and super-ultra-Star-Warsy. I guess that makes me part of the problem. :/
MINOR SPOILER BELOW THIS LINE!!!! ================================== A certain key human character from the OT is resurrected via CGI...it's pretty awesome that the character is there and has a surprisingly amount of screentime, but the fact that the CG is definitely not perfect just makes it really weird. TB2 switched visual studio versions recently so you need to install Visual C++ Redistributable for Visual Studio 2015
@Madfox, once you install that, build 0e1a90a (the one I linked a few days ago) should work on XP. That did the trick.
Hey thanks for this editor, Sleepwlkr & ericw! And all that helped of course. I was just accostumed to Radiant, but it has that dark view. Funny these comments have been happening recently. I came here to say that Trenchbroom 2 does not work correctly on my Windows XP laptop. It doesn't render textures.
That can have many reasons. First off, are you sure that it actually finds the textures? You can check out the console to find out if TB has problems locating the textures.
For some reason, download from the Microsoft page linked by Eric in post #2468 fails on my computer. If others encounter this issue, I found a working link here: http://standaloneofflineinstallers.blogspot.fr/2015/12/Microsoft-Visual-C-Redistributable-2015-2013-2012-2010-2008-2005-32-bit-x86-64-bit-x64-Standalone-Offline-Installer-for-Windows.html
Can you spot what's wrong in this picture?
http://i.imgur.com/5CO29uS.png (Hint: my compiled map and Is this a bug, or is there something wrong with my "Copy Files" actions? I can't tell. Isn't it MODS and not MOD? But either way, there should be an error message. Please submit an issue.
Just in time for your weekend mappery: https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/releases/tag/v2.0.0-RC1
Big thanks to all involved, particularly ericw. It is MODS and not MOD, and after I typed that in it worked.
The documentation for TB seems a little spotty - http://i.imgur.com/xDKUFpk.png I simply copy-pasted the lines from here into the editor to get the results I did. Notice the correct "MODS" in the table above, though. If someone (perhaps me) were to go through the docs and try and proof read them, would that be appreciated? I might give it a shot. In fact, that would make me very happy! You can create issues on github for errata in the manual btw. Please create one for this, too.
With pandoc enhancements. If you wish to edit the docs and submit pull requests, we should chat so that we can set up the toolchain.
Alright, shoot me an email or hit me up on IRC. I've been meaning to learn how to get around Github better so it'd be nice to get the chance to educate myself.
i'm having a huge problem with Trenchbroom (2.0.0 RC1)
my compilating and launching profiling aren't being saved, i can set them, and use them, but if i close the program, and open it again, they are gone. also, i'm having one more related issue, there is this old compiling profile that i wan't to delete, but i can't, it crashes trenchbroom instantly. sadly its a known issue: https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/1640
I THIIIIINK you could get them to save by opening a previous version of Trenchbroom, creating them in there and then they SHOULD transfer to the new version as well. same for deleting the unneeded one. also, i'm having one more related issue, there is this old compiling profile that i wan't to delete, but i can't, it crashes trenchbroom instantly.
This is not a known issue. Can you please submit a crash report on github that includes the file which contain your compilation profiles for Quake? The file is named "CompilationProfiles.cfg" and where exactly you can find it depends on the platform. Download here: TrenchBroom 2.0.0 Release Candidate 2 is out: https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/releases/tag/v2.0.0-RC2
Changes - #1655: Ensure that worldspawn colors are treated correctly in smart entity color editor. - #1655: Show color editor for any entity property matching `*_color`, `*_colour`, or `*_color2`. - #1655: Properly set selected colors in smart color editor. Switch smart editors in idle event as opposed to in reaction to row selections. - #1659: Ensure that points on the boundary are not added to a polygon. (#1662) - #1661: Make sure to reset fly keys when 3D view loses focus. (#1663) - #1653: Create a log file and add it to crash report. (#1657) - #1656: Don't start a face drag in brush tool if there is no face under the mouse. (#1658) - #1649: Fix bounding boxes of item_artifact_* in Quake.fgd - #1646: Set selected texture when the user clicks on a texture in the texture browser. (#1647) - #1648: Remove unused image from Linux build. - #1640: Fix a bug that prevented game engine profiles from being persisted properly. (#1643) - #1641: Print an error message when an error occurs while interpolating EL expression in compilation window. (#1644) - #1638: Show message dialog when an exception occurs while launching a game engine (#1642) - #1624: Change website to redirect to github for downloading releases. It's fantastic to see how much progress has been made, thanks SleepwalkR and everyone else involved.
Could you also provide SHA256's alongside the releases? pretty please https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/releases/tag/v2.0.0-RC3
Getting fewer bug reports lately... either it's getting stable, or fewer people use TB. its defintely getting more stable and i cant wait for you to start hammering out those 2.1 features ;)
I dipped into tb2 a bit more recently. Will probably consider changing to it full time on my main machine. The ui stuff is a bit cramped on my surface though
Thanks, unfortunately MD5 has been unsafe for quite a long time now.
I apologize for not contributing but I'm away from my desktop and there's no release for my current os. (I've never had much luck compiling) So that's all I can do. Anyway, I think these checksums can only ever be used to verify the integrity of the downloaded file. They cannot be used to check whether the file was tampered with on the server. If someone was able to do that, they would also be able to change the checksum files.
Still a bit of a Github Noob, even after all this time spent submitting TB issues (over 30 now I think!), so I'm not sure if contributing a comment to a closed issue will be seen...
https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/1560#issuecomment-277413575 Yep, I get notifications on Github and emails for comments on closed issues, should be the same for SleepwalkR
could some one explain to me how to add textures to trenchbroom (q2)? I have a a
https://www.quaddicted.com/files/tools/wally_155b.exe
Wally will let you convert/export that Just open it up in Wally, and File>Export to Wally will also be what youll want to use to edit and make your own textures and texture packs, etc. Its a really good, stable tool. If you want to provide your own custom textures, you need to put them in a subdirectory where TrenchBroom can find them. For Quake 2, this means that you need to create a subdirectory called textures in the directory of the mod you're mapping for, or in the baseq2 directory. Then you need to create another subdirectory with a name of your choice. Then you copy your texture files into that directory. TrenchBroom will then find that directory (possibly after restarting the editor) and allow you to load the textures from there.
If you want to provide your own custom textures, you need to put them in a subdirectory where TrenchBroom can find them. For Quake 2, this means that you need to create a subdirectory called textures in the directory of the mod you're mapping for, or in the baseq2 directory. Then you need to create another subdirectory with a name of your choice. Then you copy your texture files into that directory. TrenchBroom will then find that directory (possibly after restarting the editor) and allow you to load the textures from there.
the textures are in baseq2 in a folder called 'textures', but any of then appear in trenchbroom.
I thought that textures had to be stored in a certain file to be added in. don't they? My TB2 installation is not up to date, so maybe something has changed in the mean time, but try this:
Open TB2. On the right hand side, where you have "Map", "Entity" and "Face", go to "Face" and then below you'll find "Texture collections". Click on it and then on the "+" to browse your computer's drive to add texture files. Doesn't matter where they are located, as long as you point TB2 to the relevant directory. i think that only works for quake 1. atleast it seems so, the "+" can't be clicked at all in quake 2.(only on q1)
i've managed to add the textures, but they make the brushes invisable/non-existant(?), creating a leak. What do i do to stop that?
i noticed that the textures get to white when converting them in Wally, is there a way to make them the same color as they are in the
I started using the latest TB2 release and so far I'm pleased. Though I can't find for the life of me the Smart Property Editor for entities, as I'm trying to make a door entity toggable.
For func_doors, when you click on the Spawnflags key you should see the ability to check off states like toggle.
This is probably a stupid question
My map has a leak, i can't find it, the editor can open pointfiles, but i can't find them, so how do i make them, and if they are made automatically, where are they? Quake 2 btw. With quake 1, qbsp will save it in the same directory as your map, along with the
Hi, I use Jury-Rigged BJP Tools for compiling Q1 maps (now I'm on TB 2.0 RC 3) and the compiler may utilize "hint" and "hintskip" brushes just like in Q2+ engines.
With proper textures in a WAD and seen in the map I tried adding { "name": "HintSkip brushes", "attribs": [ "transparent" ], "match": "texture", "pattern": "hintskip" }, to the Quake.cfg in the "Games" directory to make the brush "hintskip" textured brush semi transparent - in vain. Actually when the brush has only hint texture, it is transparent but when I retexture its 5 sides with hintskip, it isn't any longer. Also it can't be excluded from the View menu. Can anyone help me with this? Hi, unless I'm missing something I don't seem to be able to go into edge mode without going into vertex mode first (press "V")
This means to manipulate edges in the 2D view I have to go into vertex mode, then click on an edge in the 3d view to enter edge mode, and then the edge manipulation works in the 2D view. Ideally, as well as "V" I think there needs to be two additional shortcuts that go straight into edge mode, and face mode - this would make edge manipulation in 2D more immediate. Thoughts? 1) would it be possible to set the grid opacity of the 3D view independently of the grid opacity of the 2D view?
2) I can't find a way to change the WASD flymode speed - is there a way? 3) Can grid size please go subinteger, down to 0.125? (So, additional 0.5, 0.25 and 0.125 grid settings a la radiant) For thin trims that need to be a constant thickness as they go round certain curve configurations, the trim sections often have to meet on a subinteger grid. I can change the background colour but can't seem to change the grid colour or brush outline colour.
I have a pretty nasty case of palinopsia which means I can't deal very easily with thin light lines on darker backgrounds :{ Hi, unless I'm missing something I don't seem to be able to go into edge mode without going into vertex mode first (press "V")
Thats just how edges are presented in TrenchBroom. I dont see how adding some other shortcut for edges would be any different than pressing V and selecting an edge that way. Maybe a video would better explain your issue? 3) Can grid size please go subinteger, down to 0.125? something i desire, myself. as for your suggestions, take them over to https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues
Thats just how edges are presented in TrenchBroom. I dont see how adding some other shortcut for edges would be any different than pressing V and selecting an edge that way.
To move an edge in 2D view, I have to go into vertex mode, then in the 3D view carefully pick the edge I want, then go back into the 2D view to move the edge. Why not cut out the middleman? Shortcut "E" (or whatever) straight into edge mode, start moving it around in 2D. So much quicker. as for your suggestions, take them over to https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues
Cheers I will in future. I played around with this and:
Doing a drag to create a box and select the edge nodes isnt working properly in 2D view, it seems. Otherwise, you can select a single edge node (in 2D view), then create a "bounding box"(still in 2D view) and itll select the node below it. is this what youre referring to? Well actually now i feel like a dummy. I was only thinking of one type of edges. I neglected edges the "exist" between vertices.
Yeah, I can +1 different shortcuts for Edge, Vertex, and Face selection in regards to the 2D view. yeah I'm just coming from NetRadiant and it's really about streamlining all this stuff for "power users" (god that phrase sounds so smug). I'll be adding a lot of these sorts of requests to the issue tracker :)
At the moment, I can see two ways to implement this:
Separate shortcuts for Face, Edge, and Vertex selection. This might be limited with how Sleep likes to utilize ctrl, alt, and shift. - OR - Retain the current shortcut to display Face, Edge, and Vertex nodes. While in this mode, perhaps CTRL, ALT, and SHIFT will display only Face, Edge, or Vertices respectively. A complication to this is, while in this mode, how would a user select multiple brushes if CTRL is for displaying a certain type of node? The user would likely have to back out of Vertex mode, select their desired brushes, and go back in Vertex mode. ----------- This is just right off the top of my head for the sake of starting the conversation. Please dont berate me for any undersights :P I much prefer the first option. Seems to be simpler and quicker from the user's point of view. It's all about less clicks to get to where you want to be.
the question to always ask is: "what's the implementation that uses the least number of clicks / key presses?"
Very much appreciate the input from you. Most of these things won't make it to 2.0 final, but I'll do them right after. Unfortunately I'm in the middle of moving houses and have almost no time for TB for the time being.
I was just thinking today that it could be convenient to have TB play the windows "error sound" or something when you try and use a hotkey in the wrong context. I was shift-clicked on a face to edit its texture and tried to isolate it with ctrl-i, and it took me a little moment to remember that you need to have it selected normally for it to work... some better feedback than "nothing happens" would be good.
That, or make such functions work in more contexts... I have three monitors. Sometimes TB decides that when it starts up it wants to be stretched across all three. You get a really strong fisheye effect with that, kinda neat.
In all seriousness, I'm assuming you're talking about a floating inspector pane, right? I'd love to see that happen too, but I think it's been discussed before and nothing has been done... Y'know what'd be cool? Comment entities. That way I could leave myself little TODOs etc. and not forget about them so much...
So I downloaded quake.wad, opened 'Face' section and added the wad (via '+' button), but friggin texture browser is still empty! The entity browser is full of stuff by the way.
Help me solve this problem please. Another cool thing: clicking on the name of a texture to automatically search it in the texture browser.
Aaaand... can we get the rest of the texture controls added as hotkeys? I feel like making an issue on github for this one, since it feels more like it's something that's been left out rather than a simple suggestion. Not being able to reset a texture with my keyboard sucks.
@Vseznamus Just a shot in the dark here, but could it be that you have the " Used " button turned on, and as such are seeing no textures because none have been used yet? This has happened to me on a couple of occasions making me wonder what the heck is going on and just starting a new map or restarting TB as a result.
Just throwing it out there I haven't had a single crash with TB2 (latest release). Thank you for all of the efforts in making this as stable as possible!
Granted, I'm on an ancient OS (WinXP), but the software keeps crashing on me like every 30 minutes (I created a bug report some time ago). Miraculously, I haven't lost a single edit due to the excellent crash backup solution - I'm so grateful for that!
And truly, it's the best map editor of all I've ever tried. that crash should be fixed in the next RC. (also, Muk, that was 90% of the big list of crashes you reported a few months ago.)
Is there or could there be these functions:
Group selection of brushes, making brushes transparent so group selection can select brushes behind brushes, scaling brushes or group of brushes. also in vertex mode there could be a mode where you see the visible plane only, this would make terrain making easier. You can select a group of brushes by making a large brush that covers the brushes you want and hitting "select all touching"
You can select brushes behind other brushes by selecting a brush and using the scrolll wheel. Scaling of brushes will be introduced at some point, i believe. Lastly, i also believe occlusion of "hidden" vertex nodes will be implemented as well. https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/releases/tag/v2.0.0-RC4
Getting there, but still some open bugs that I want to fix. This RC is mainly due to ericw's work who has held the fort while I was moving houses and settling in. As the history of maps you opened on the startscreen isn't the only history I would want to clear...
If it isn't a feature yet then I request it, If I'm just being dumb again then tell me where to click the UI. Without checking the configs files for TB, I'd recommend you CCleaner, a cleaning tool that's very good at deleting Most Recently Used file lists. It's also very good for general PC maintenance.
Cant you do face and world alignment in JACK/Hammer?
TB needs that. Throw in texture wrapping with it and TB will be catching up to Texture toolsets of other editors. http://i.imgur.com/2uX1W1g.png
Does anyone know how to get QS to run through the TB compiler? I tried using -game ad instead of +game ad but it just gave me an error about having the shareware version of the game (?!). MarkV runs fine through this :( Your working directory needs to be where the engine is.
If Mark V starts with a working directory and can't find Quake there, it will check and see if Quake lives in the folder where the Also, "couldn't load gfx.wad" has never been a helpful error message, that could be rewritten to suggest the most likely fixes.
I have tried to get other engines to steal that for years. Tends to get dismissed out of hand as a non-problem. If Mark V actually does get the gfx.wad it very clearly says what is wrong, and then pops a message saying "Opening folder c:\path_to_engine
/Brief gentle tangent, I am officially taking Baker's side on this one, it's a serious pain having to use the game dir as your working directory... Especially because the compile tool doesn't have a working way to get the map's directory...
http://i.imgur.com/3i0nthn.png I think I can use fully qualified names to avoid this, but it makes the parameters of my tools into even more of a mess than before... Could someone tell me if i'm using ${MAP_DIR_PATH} wrong or something? I think this should probably have a github issue if it's genuinely broken. engine -basedir ${GAME_DIR_PATH} -window +map foo
or something. (or +set fs_basedir foo for q2/q3) some engines ignore -basedir. those engines are annoying. an explicit path should always take precedence over a fallback/guess. That said, default compile rules for TB would be really nice... it would save quite a bit of frustraction... at least until someone uses a path with spaces in it, anyway. Hehe
(I didn't have Spike in mind. He even has a different objection than I've seen before ) /@Spike - Mark V honors basedir and can handle paths with spaces in them like -basedir "Path to Quake". I've been pushing TB2 pretty hard this week especially using undo many more times than I would ordinarily do while mapping (a dozen or more steps back) and have had zero issues. Am I dreaming or did some of the default keyboard shortcut change or go away though? I think the only weird thing I've noticed was the transparency bug noted elsewhere on this thread and on Github. Amazing work guys.
I was able to make that work with QS, but only by using a fully-qualified path rather than the ${GAME_DIR_PATH} one you suggested. Did your suggestion work for you? Maybe there's something wrong with how my environment is set up.
I remember someone setting up their preferred engine in one of the "Tool" slots in the compiler. Bit more intuitive, imo.
That's what I've done. It's nice because it only takes one click to start the process and when it's done you're instantly in-game with your map.
It's less nice because of all the issues I've had trying to make it work with something that isn't MarkV. Pretty much the only reason I use JACK more. That and primitives.
All on Sleepwalkr's list I'd imagine. |
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