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The TrenchBroom Level Editor
Today I am releasing TrenchBroom 1.0 for Windows and Mac OS X. TrenchBroom is a modern cross-platform level editor for Quake.

Features
- True 3D editing, no 2D views required
- High performance renderer with support for huge maps
- Vertex editing with edge and face splitting
- Manipulation of multiple vertices at once (great for trisoup editing)
- Smart clip tool
- Move, rotate and flip brushes and entities
- Precise texture lock for all operations
- Smart entity property editors
- Graphical entity browser with drag and drop support
- Comprehensive texture application and manipulation tools
- Search and filter functions
- Unlimited undo and redo
- Point file support
- Automatic backup
- Support for .def and .fdg files, mods and multiple wad files
- Free (as in beer) and open source (GPLv3)
- Cross platform (Windows, Mac OS X and Linux supported)

Check out a video of TrenchBroom in action here.

You can download the editor here.

If you would like to give feedback, please do that in this thread. If you find a bug or have a feature suggestion, please submit them at the issue tracker.

If you are wondering where the Linux binaries are then sorry, but currently there are none. The Linux version has a few problems which I could not fix before this release. I will get working on those right away so that the Linux version should be available in a couple of weeks, too.

Finally, I would like to thank necros for all his work over the past year. Without his tireless efforts, TrenchBroom would simply not exist. Or it would suck.

Alright, enough of this. Have fun with the editor!
Hats Off Sir 
And thanks! 
Forgot To Mention 
It has full documentation built in. 
Yes 
Reading it and playing around now. The interface is incredibly slick. It's been a long time since I've opened a new editor and been able to just throw things together.

This feels more easy and comfortable than Unity...

And if I'm seeing right you are reading defs and fgd.

This is epic. 
 
The FGD loading has been extended to support model loading (as well as linking models to specific settings on entities like spawnflags and other key/vals). So, if you click 'rotten' on the health box, you get the rotten health box model.
This can all be customized for mods and such. It isn't documented yet since it was more important to get the application released with the mapping related documentation but this sort of ancillary documentation will be done later. 
 
Nice work, SleepWalkR ! 
Wow 
My reaction after the video. Totally going to check this out. qe3 was nice to work with, but I just love messing around with editors in general. Looks very comfortable to use, will find out soon! 
 
This looks really slick, dude, congrats! Going to have a serious play with it over the weekend... 
1st Impressions 
After literally 10 seconds of adding some wads and choosing the quake directory etc and fgd (I love you for supporting fgd) I was mapping. It was literally that easy, amazing stuff!

Clipping tool is epic

camera controls are good but will take some getting used to coming from WC - would love to able to just toggle a key and go into "noclip camera mode" like in wc. Where you have mouselook on and can just w,a,s,d to move around like you were in-game.

Quite tricky to pull brush sides outward on a single axis that you want, theres probably a key for this I'll have to play some more. 
TrenchBroom 1.0.1 
There was a bug that prevented TrenchBroom from reading map files with comments in it (it was a mere typo). This is fixed in TrenchBroom 1.0.1.

Download here
Camera Controls 
For those lazy bastards who don't read documentation: Try Alt + Right drag and make sure your drag starts on some object (brush or entity). This will orbit the camera around the point were you clicked. I think once you get used to this, you won't miss your old editor for long ;-) 
 
you can sort of get a walkthrough mode with just right clicking to turn the camera and mwheel up to move forward. 
 
Quite tricky to pull brush sides outward on a single axis that you want, theres probably a key for this I'll have to play some more.

Are you talking about while in vertex editing mode? There is only the Alt key to toggle vertical movement on and off for now. There was originally a way to clamp movement to specific axes, but it was bulky and not very useful most of the time so for now, movement on x/y cannot be clamped.
In these cases, it helps to get used to moving the camera more. For myself, it took a while to get used to having to move the camera so much because I would normally just leave it sit in a general area and do my editing in the 2d views and just watch the 3d without interacting with it much. 
Daz 
You can move things around with the cursor keys and page up / down. 
Or Try 
Shift dragging faces when not in vertex mode. 
 
"Try Alt + Right drag and make sure your drag starts on some object (brush or entity). "

Mother of god ... awesome!

My only complaint at this point would be the texture browser. It's hard to make out some of them on a high res screen. 
 
Yes, thanks I should have mentioned that as well. Vertices are treated like objects, so you can select them and move them just like anything else. I use the keyboard a lot when I need to do precise stuff. 
Looks Epic But 
For those lazy bastards who don't read documentation: Try Alt + Right drag and make sure your drag starts on some object (brush or entity). This will orbit the camera around the point were you clicked. I think once you get used to this, you won't miss your old editor for long ;-)

wasd-style flythough is essential for this kind of work, i'd highly recommend putting it in. 
Willem 
I will add a zoom feature for the texture browser in 1.1. 
Kinn 
Sure 
sounds great :} 
 
Just wanted to say thanks for this. I've played around for a little bit now and I can honestly say that I feel this rekindling a lot of that old, raw fun factor of Quake editing that I felt way back in the day.

This is a great editor, congrats! 
Thank You 
That is great to hear! 
Amazing 
Damn that looks awesome! Definitely going to start using this.

SleepwalkR: Thankyou so much for using git as well! So much easier to follow what is going on and to contribute. You're a bloody legend :D 
F Yeah! 
Awesome, downloading! 
 
Tried to run it and I got an error saying "msvcp100.dll could not be found". I downloaded this -
http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/confirmation.aspx?id=5555

Which removed the error message. But the .exe crashes. I can see the black box at the bottom trying to find all the .mdl files but all I can do is close the program.

I'm running 32bit windows 8. (2ghz processor, 3gb ram... ummm yeah it's a laptop).
I literally reinstalled my OS today so my pc is completely clear of junk. 
FifthElephant 
I have successfully been able to run the editor on Windows 8, albeit in a virtual machine. Could you please create a new issue and give me some information on your graphics card and driver? Also, paste the entire contents of the console, please.

http://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues 
 
Just watched that video, really well done on that. :D 
Thanks ;-) 
But it's mostly a testament to how easy to use iMove is, because I'm totally a hack ;-) 
 
Sorry SleepwalkR, it wont let me select the text in the console. Does the editor have a way of logging everything into a file? I have made a screenshot -
http://s23.postimage.org/xm8w7bsq3/error.jpg

My graphics card is Geforce 8600M GT and the driver info is in the screenshot -
http://s23.postimage.org/lls1kcap7/driver.jpg

I hope this helps. 
No Problem 
TrenchBroom doesn't write a log file, but it should. I'll add that to the next release. Maybe I can fix your problem then. Sorry. 
Congrats! 
Echoing what Williem said and congrats on the release!

Also want to say that TrenchBroom has an extremely fluid method of sculpting (tri-soup-like) brushes. Excellent work! 
Any Way To Get WASD? :) 
 
Success! 
Turns out it was the graphics driver, I updated to the latest nvidia drivers and I got it working!

It's fairly nifty, somewhat reminiscent of the built-in Portal 2 editor (only more powerful), I will be a bore and echo the WASD requests... so far so good though. I look forward to tinkering all weekend. :) 
This Looks 
amazing. I'm going to have to try this out tonight. On a side note, I discovered this via Carmack's twitter actually. I'll do a news post on Inside3d about it tonight as well.

I hope I like it even half as well as DaZ and Willem seem to! 
 
You'll love it. I'm mapping for my old mod Qonquer right now and it's absolutely seamless. Between this editor, and the new tools that were just released, and the compiler UI from Necros Quake mapping is enjoyable again. :P 
 
I think once everyone starts to get the hang of the vertex manip, we may see some truly wild maps. 
 
I've already partially converted my WIP level to trenchboom. I do feel without a 2d x/y grid etc I have less accuracy though, it's a very organic feeling editor. 
This Looks Pretty Sweet! 
I'll give it a go, but Quake 2 is my poison of choice for Quake editing. Any plans for Q2 support? 
Quake 2 And Quake 3 Support 
it's on my todo list, but it will take a while. 
Thanks Scarecr0w 
 
Crash... 
I had the same problem as elephant walker (sp) above.

Win XP (fully up to date)
GForce440go
C++ 2010 runtimes installed
old laptop (but that shouldn't matter unless this software needs more than 512mb on startup)

Console started loading something about models (it went by pretty fast so I couldn't see what it said with any accuracy) then it crashed.

Maybe I'll try it again after it's a bit more matured but I do like the concept. 
 
Wow, how did Carmack find out about this? 
I Got Cocky 
And emailed him. 
Quaketree 
I resolved the issue by updating to the latest drivers, maybe try that if you haven't already? :) 
Cock 
nice! 
So It's Offically To TB Now Supports Win? 
great news 
 
<quote>Loading file H:\Mapping\555.map
Loading unsupported map Valve 220 map format</quote>

thats sad 
Tried It A Tiny Bit 
Went through 80% of the documentation, I really appreciate that it is there! So far everything feels very good. Going to finish the documentation in the morning, then prod at the primary functions, and once I feel comfortable, attempt a speedmap with it.

Oh and FYI, Tom Mustaine retweeted the link Carmack had supplied, and stated he knew what he was going to be up to this weekend. Perhaps word will spread to Levelord and we can get some bizarro mini-Scourge of Armagon going on... 
 
I think he said he's working on support for 220 map files. It'd be nice (and I could import my WIP levels in to do the organic stuff like terrain), but I'd love to have some more robust texture alignment features (snap to top/bottom/face/floor etc, basically the options available in WC) 
Gonna Read This Thread From Its Start 
 
Not Loading .mdl Files 
Maybe I have done something wrong, but TrenchBroom will not find/load any .mdl files from either the Quake paks or the progs folder.

Other than that, this editor is a fantastic piece of work. Now on to adding support for Quake2 and Quake3! :) 
What Does It Say On The Console? 
 
 
It would be nice if Q2 and Q3 support were segregated well. Most editors wear all the games on their sleeve and it's annoying to see menu options and flags all over the place that don't apply to the game you're editing. 
Not Loading .mdl Files 
Apparently TrenchBroom selected Quake\id1 instead of just Quake\. Solved! 
Not Loading .mdl Files 
Actually, it only loaded player.mdl. It did not load anything else... 
 
Same crash as Quaketree on a Windows 7 with Intel GMA 3150 with ancient drivers. I will reboot into nvidia (it's an optimus system). 
 
Works fine with the nvidia.

Placing "Preferences" in "View" seems weird to me. "Edit" would be more normal. 
Random 
Loading wads quickly says "loaded" in the console but then it stalls for a moment before the wad appears in the list (thumbnails I guess). Maybe add a message, I thought it crashed.

When you have toggled "group" in the wad view, make the wad name clickable and extend it into a list of all the loaded wads to let the user quickly jump to a wad. 
Lava Croft 
Please open an issue at the issue tracker and post the console output there. 
Willem 
Good point! The interface must adapt to whatever game you are working on. 
Sleepwalker 
The issue seems solved once I pointed TrenchBroom to Quake\ instead of id1\. I don't recall if I set it to Quake\id1 or if TrenchBroom did. I will stick with my being at fault for now. Thanks a bunch for the editor, awesome work! 
TrenchBroom 1.0.2 
Changes
- Fix issues with texture caching when removing wad files.
- Correctly display long spawnflag names.
- Improve clip plane guessing when less than 3 points are available.
- Fix crash when calling "Center Camera on Selection" when nothing is selected.
- Add option to disable instanced rendering.

About the last issue: If the editor goes bonkers when you activate vertex mode, it failed to properly detect whether OpenGL instancing is supported by your driver. In this case, go to the preferences and choose "Force off" from the instancing mode dropdown list.

Thanks everyone for the bug reports. 
Addendum 
Also fixed an "off by one" error in the mod list of the map properties dialog. 
Unable To Load Mdl 
Loading 'progs/player.mdl' (searching C:\Quake\ID1,C:\Quake\ID1)
Unable to find MDL 'progs/player.mdl'

as a example - I saw others fixing it by pointing TrenchBroom to Quake\ instead of id1\ I have no idea how to go about this. So any help or being pointed towards a solution would be great - I am looking forward to using this as been using Quark for so long a change would be wonderful! 
Are Your Pak Files All Lowercase? 
And yes, you have to set your Quake directory in the preferences, but it looks okay from the log output. Can you post the contents of your id1 directory please? 
Contents 
GFX
glquake
MAPS
progs
SOUND

there are the folders

GFX.WAD
PROGS.DAT
QUAKE.RC
qwprogs.dat

Are the side files in the folder also. 
Contents 
GFX
glquake
MAPS
progs
SOUND

there are the folders

GFX.WAD
PROGS.DAT
QUAKE.RC
qwprogs.dat

Are the side files in the folder also. 
There Are No Pak Files 
TrenchBroom will only read models from pak files, not from the directories. You will need the standard pak files. 
Contents 
GFX
glquake
MAPS
progs
SOUND

there are the folders

GFX.WAD
PROGS.DAT
QUAKE.RC
qwprogs.dat

Are the side files in the folder also. 
Two Feature Requests? 
Duplicate brush and paste EXACTLY where previous brush is. Just an alternative to copy & paste really. This is super useful to save even a few seconds, no need to align x/y/z when I just need it nudged to the left/right a few times. Pretty sure Radiant/DarkRadiant has this, but it's been a while since I last used them.

Texturing from the texture window without needing a face selected. I choose my texture, and start clicking at random faces and they'll be assigned there. Kind of like WC/Hammer (iirc)

Otherwise, I am loving this editor. Still messing around with it but workflow is pretty fast already. It honestly feels a bit smoother and quicker to use than Radiant varieties I've tried. 
Quakis 
Duplicate in place is already on my todo list.

As for the texture application issue, TrenchBroom has something similar builtin. Look at the section "Working with Textures / Mouse Shortcuts" in the documentation. 
Dude 
I think I'm going to play with this :)

Looks really cool.

Video just blew my mind. 
Contents 
GFX
glquake
MAPS
progs
SOUND

there are the folders

GFX.WAD
PROGS.DAT
QUAKE.RC
qwprogs.dat

Are the side files in the folder also. 
We Get It Dude 
 
Thanks! 
No idea why it keeps posting that iv even restarted my browser and it still insists on doing so.. >.<

anyway thanks Ill try track down the original Pak files they should not be so hard to find! 
DxC 
I already have a build that will load models from scattered files. If you want it, send me an email to kristian.duske@gmail.com

The fix will go into 1.0.3, but I'm not going to release that right away. 
Needs Xonotic Support 
Needs to support Xonotic (runs on the quake1 based Darkplaces engine) like RIGHT NOW!

Awesome work, thanks for making this. 
Strange Texture Skewing 
I'm having a lot of trouble with texture alignment (as you may have seen on my other posts) but I haven't shown a picture. Essentially I've edited the verts of a brush so that I can create a kind of angular wall but the alignment is way off. Is there a way to align the texture to the face like in WC? Pictures below for reference -

http://s15.postimage.org/wgjjzbix7/weirdskew.jpg

http://s16.postimage.org/enqn5lg5h/weirdskew2.jpg

I hope I'm not being annoying with bringing this up multiple times, this is otherwise an excellent editor (and I will probably end up dropping using Worldcraft entirely). 
This Is Not A Bug 
It's not a feature either ;-). This is how Quake does texture projection. WC uses a different type of projection that most compilers also understand, but TB doesn't support his yet. It's on the todo list though, and since a few people have already asked for this, I will probably get working on it soon. 
Crashes Using 3 Point Clipping 
Still trying to work out repro steps, but it has crashed each time I've tried to do any 3 point clipping. Might have to do clipping in multiple separate steps. I'll let you know if I find anything more specific. FYI, I've not had any of the problems others have in this thread so far (Win7-64bit, Radeon HD6850). 
Oh And 
This is with 1.0.2 and 1.0.1. 
Scarecrow 
Thanks for trying. I'm thinking it must be something with the renderer. 
Wow 
Never realized you could split multiple edges at once if they share the same place.

Select two brushes that share a pair of vertex positions, double click the edge between those two and you split both edges at once AND the new vertices move as one.

I love this editor. ^_^ 
Mandatory *tips Hat To SleepwalkR" 
I hope this editor evolves to become "the standard Q1 editor".

Knowing how 10 minute ideas can at times take 2-days to reduce to code, and the sheer number of them, there are 53 different ways this is quite awesome.

Congratulations! Shall we all be fortunate enough to see more monumental acts of defiance against odds in the future. 
I Wouldn't Have Even Attempted This Without It 
http://mobile.sheridanc.on.ca/~jonescor/temp/shot_vertexManip.jpg
http://mobile.sheridanc.on.ca/~jonescor/temp/shot_vertexManip2.jpg

Thanks. :)

Also, I haven't done any of the documentation I said I would do because I was mapping. You have only yourself to blame! 
 
Necros you are an unstoppable beast... Really I'm blown away right now.

I was kinda hoping I'd get to crank out the first Trench map but I can't map so much at that pace. 
 
I've been testing it for the past few months so I'm pretty proficient with the interface, but this is the first chance I've had to do some serious non-stop mapping that wasn't trying to break anything. :P
I just really love how powerful the vertex manip is. In other editors I would always be careful to do my manip in a way that wouldn't crash the editor or break the brush. In trenchbroom I just grab a vert and move it any old way and it just works. 
Drivers 
Frogdammit. I do have the latest drivers for that card. In fact I have drivers newer than the last officially released ones for that card. Still made by Geforce but dated in 2005. The laptop is a 2002 model and doesn't support shaders which is why I was going to relegate it to something else. All of the other map editors work fine on it.

Oh well... 
QuakeTree 
Sorry, but TB requires shaders. I'll add minimum system requirements to the website. 
 
Can't run. After starting the program I get a message:

http://s017.radikal.ru/i430/1303/e2/4a656ef4b2fb.jpg

After pressing a button, the message is displayed again. So many times. Then the program ends

Windows 7
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650 Series 
It Needs A Log File 
digs, I will add a log file to the next version. For some reason, some of the error dialogs don't show any meaningful information (even though there usually is some). Then we can try to fix this problem. 
God Damn 
this looks amazing! I may have to try this mapping lark again. Everyone: Expect lots of newb questions in the near future. 
Crash After Moving Program Dir (win7) 
I ran it yesterday, it was sitting in my downloads folder. So I moved it into program files today. When I open it now it instantly crashes. Does it store a config somewhere which I need to delete?

The copy in the old folder still works fine. 
It Seems 
2012 was a milestone years for maps, and 2013 is already a milestone year for tools.

Not even a quarter of the way through and we've already given vis times a big punch in the balls with Tyrann's new shizzle, and now this comes along which seems to be taking brush manipulation to a new level.

Do you know what I would absolutely love though:

The option of using a max/maya-style movement handle with arrows along each axis that you can pull to move in just that axis. The current movement is pretty great, but I find it's sometimes hard to keep it constrained to x or y, and with a max/maya type gizmo, I wouldn't need to keep holding alt to move in z.

That said, i've been mucking around making organic rocky stuff with this, and it's just amazing.... 
Make That "g" For Gizmo 
 
Kinn 
We had implemented movement handles at one point, but I found it to be unintuitive. I wanted ppl to be able to just grab objects and move them around. I can add a special mode for move handles, but it feels redundant. Let me think about it, maybe I can come up with a way to restrict movement axes that can be combined with the current approach. 
Spiney 
TrenchBroom keeps its config in the registry under

HKEY_CURRENT_USER/Software/TrenchBroom

If you delete that entire key, does it work? I can't imagine why it would fail when you move the app, though. 
Yeah 
i think as an option that you can toggle with a shortcut it would be perfect because there's always situations where you want to yank stuff effortlessly in one axis without worrying about moving it in another. 
I Never Needed That 
but it seems that many people are used to what they can do in professional 3D packages. I'll see what I can do. 
About The Gizmo 
Trying out a cave wall, I sometimes accidentally push verts off into the distance. Having a gizmo with 3 axis and 3 planes would be really handy at times. (like this: http://www.finalclap.com/ressources/images/3dsmax-tracking6.jpg )

The gizmo is one of those things I often lack in level editors for older games (most newer editors have them).

alternatively you could try having cubes for handles, and selecting the y-face on the cube would move on the y-plane, etc... you could have a similar system of bounding boxes when selecting an entire brush.

(on a sidenote, in the view tab, having the ability to hide vertex handles on backfaces could be useful) 
Seems It Has To Do With User Rights Management 
I put it into program files on C:\, but that requires admin login. Moving it to F:\ which is accessible as regular user fixes it...

Hope that makes sense? 
Using The Bounding Boxes For Axis Selection 
doesn't work if you are too close to the selection. We discussed that one already.

A lot of the fluidity and speed when doing brush manipulation in TrenchBroom is due to the ability to just click and drag stuff around. This is seriously hampered by gizmos because you have to hit a small part of them to select the correct axis. That's why I would prefer a different option that can be combined with the idea of just clicking anywhere on an object to move it around. 
Spiney 
Never seen this problem, so I guess it's something with your system? 
Woot 
Looks like insurer my gizmo back! 
Nooooo 
I'll find a gizmo-less way to restrict movement axes! 
 
Looks like I may my gizmo back!

Predictive text sucks... 
May Get 
Sure, blame technology! 
Oops, Read Over The Handles Part... 
And yeah, might be my system.

Also, this is obviously a retard move, but anyway; reproducible crash with the clipper: http://www.spiney.me/files/etc/clipcrash.png 
Camera Movement 
It's probably been mentioned before, but I (as a Radiant-lover) would like some kind of 'legacy' control scheme for the editor that mimics Radiant's or (god forbid) WorldCraft's keybindings / camera control.

Other than that, and this can't be said enough, this editor is a serious Godsend. 
Lava Croft 
You mean a flythrough mode like this? https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/383 
Spiney 
Thanks for the report, it will be fixed in 1.0.3. 
TrenchBroom 1.0.3 
Changes
- Objects are no longer displaced when duplicated.
- Fix off-by-one bug of mod list in map properties dialog.
- Snap vertex coordinates if close to integer coordinates.
- Add logging on all platforms.
- Properly merge spawnflags when loading fgd or def files.
- Fix crash bug when clipping all selected brushes. 
Append 
- Properly set the size of point entities from fgd files. 
Oh And 
Scratch the first item. That's 1.1.0 - sorry! 
+1 
Having a gizmo with 3 axis and 3 planes would be really handy at times.
Yep, totally agree, also an axis lock function.

Add flythrough mode
A noclip fly mode is a must for me. 
 
I feel dumb .. how do I move brushes back to the worldspawn? 
 
FFS, NOW I see it in the docs. Never mind. :) 
 
FFS, NOW I see it in the docs. Never mind. :) 
 
*shame* 
The Gizmo Issue 
Ok guys, I see that a lot of you want a gizmo for moving things around. The thing is, unlike everyone else except for necros, I have already seen how gizmos work in TrenchBroom, and while he may disagree, I don't think they work very well because

1. They clutter up the viewport, esp. if you have only one entity selected.
2. They are harder to hit than just clicking and dragging anywhere on an object.
3. They seriously diminish what some have called the "slickness" of this editor. The ability to just grab and move things around is very important, and it is hindered by having these gizmos.

Now you might suggest that I implement both. But that would be redundant for everything except restricting movement to one single axis. So what I really hear when you say "I want a gizmo" is "I want to be able to restrict the axis of movement". Note that you already have restrictions in place though:

- By default, you can only move things on the horizontal plane.
- You can restrict the movement direction to the Z axis by holding ALT.

So what I think is really necessary is a way to restrict the axis of movement to the X or Y axis. I have just thought about a solution that I'm going to implement to see how it works.

Bottom line: I'm not going to add gizmos for movement until all other options are exhausted. And even then I might not do it because I think they are, for the reasons outlined above, a bad solution to a fundamental UI problem of 3D software: How to translate 2D input into 3D. 
Make Optional? 
I understand the whole 'developers license' as in 'artistic license', but you could make it optional, off by default. 
 
Ricky

Not to bash on you, but that's the crappy way out on stuff like this. Adding scores of checkboxes to an app just adds ton of code paths that all need testing before each release and just slows everything down. If he can hit on a "right way" and just do that, it's far better in the long run. 
 
"So what I think is really necessary is a way to restrict the axis of movement to the X or Y axis."

Yes, totally agree. If something simple can be worked out for axis locking on brushes and entities, I think you'd be golden! 
 
I agree with Ricky, make it an option (or a hotkey like holding alt does with z axis, or have it pop up like when you press R for rotation). I'm getting quite used to the workflow now, it's becoming less of an issue the more I play.

I need to figure out a good way of making curves in TB now... Also, I have noticed that the entities don't seem to have all the options available (for instance the light entity doesn't have the light, style, _color key etc). 
 
If he can hit on a "right way" and just do that, it's far better in the long run.
I agree with this. I'm all for customization, but not on core functionality. 
 
Elephant

Hit the "+" button. You can add all the keys you want. 
Willem 
Yeah I know, I just have a terrible memory for remembering all the keys :P
I'm sure I remember seeing a colour picker for coloured lighting... 
So I Love This Editor 
I agree with others that a way to clamp to x or y axis is needed.

Something of a more advanced feature for people that are awful at maths (like me) would be a nice brush curves tool where for example you could select a brush or combination of brushes and then select a bend angle and amount of segments and it would create a nice clean on-grid brush curve for you. Similar to how czg's curve tutorial handles things but automated.

Adding more functionality to the entity window would be awesome too, things like light value entries, wait, delay, colour etc. 
Just Wondering 
Is there a reason for doing page-up/down rather than alt+arrows? 
Responses 
<quote>I understand the whole 'developers license' as in 'artistic license', but you could make it optional, off by default. </quote>

<quote>I agree with Ricky, make it an option (or a hotkey like holding alt does with z axis, or have it pop up like when you press R for rotation). I'm getting quite used to the workflow now, it's becoming less of an issue the more I play. </quote>

See Willem's response. That's exactly how I feel about this.

<quote>I need to figure out a good way of making curves in TB now...</quote>

<quote>Something of a more advanced feature for people that are awful at maths (like me) would be a nice brush curves tool where for example you could select a brush or combination of brushes and then select a bend angle and amount of segments and it would create a nice clean on-grid brush curve for you. Similar to how czg's curve tutorial handles things but automated. </quote>

A patch builder is on my todo list. It would basically allow you to create patches and then generate brushwork (trisoup) for them.

<quote> Also, I have noticed that the entities don't seem to have all the options available (for instance the light entity doesn't have the light, style, _color key etc). </quote>

The entity property editor is quite rudimentary as is, I agree. I plan on the following features

- Easy way to add "known" properties (from fgd or def file).
- Display additional description strings from fgd and def file.
- More smart property editors (angle, mangle, target, etc).
- Better navigation (tab to navigate row-wise, enter to navigate column-wise, create new property when leaving the last row).
- And other things I can't think of right now.

<quote>Is there a reason for doing page-up/down rather than alt+arrows? </quote>

Alt+Arrows is currently taken for the camera movement. You will be able to completely customize this in the next version though. I agree that Alt+up/down would also make sense given that Alt+Mouse will move things vertically. 
Fucking Hell. 
I understand the whole 'developers license' as in 'artistic license', but you could make it optional, off by default.

I agree with Ricky, make it an option (or a hotkey like holding alt does with z axis, or have it pop up like when you press R for rotation). I'm getting quite used to the workflow now, it's becoming less of an issue the more I play.

See Willem's response. That's exactly how I feel about this.

I need to figure out a good way of making curves in TB now...

Something of a more advanced feature for people that are awful at maths (like me) would be a nice brush curves tool where for example you could select a brush or combination of brushes and then select a bend angle and amount of segments and it would create a nice clean on-grid brush curve for you. Similar to how czg's curve tutorial handles things but automated.

A patch builder is on my todo list. It would basically allow you to create patches and then generate brushwork (trisoup) for them.

Also, I have noticed that the entities don't seem to have all the options available (for instance the light entity doesn't have the light, style, _color key etc).

The entity property editor is quite rudimentary as is, I agree. I plan on the following features

- Easy way to add "known" properties (from fgd or def file).
- Display additional description strings from fgd and def file.
- More smart property editors (angle, mangle, target, etc).
- Better navigation (tab to navigate row-wise, enter to navigate column-wise, create new property when leaving the last row).
- And other things I can't think of right now.

Is there a reason for doing page-up/down rather than alt+arrows?

Alt+Arrows is currently taken for the camera movement. You will be able to completely customize this in the next version though. I agree that Alt+up/down would also make sense given that Alt+Mouse will move things vertically. 
This May Be A Stupid Question... 
But is there a way to group together brushes? I had a look through the Help document but couldn't find anything. It would make things a hell of a lot faster.

I generally create a set of pre-fabs to work with (saves time, keeps everything looking consistent).

Also, WIP of Deck 16 remake (completely done in TB) -
http://s24.postimage.org/ov1vd2out/Quake0000.jpg
http://s7.postimage.org/jht6up70r/Quake0001.jpg 
 
I think the only way is to create a func_group entity with everything inside that you want grouped. They are added to the worldspawn at compile time... 
 
Make sure you add -group to your compiler or it will treat it like a normal brush entity. Adding -group is what makes the compiler merge those func_group entities as if they were normal brushes. 
Oh And 
those are great shots, FifthElephant. 
... 
I mean to make a kind of prefab that I can copy and paste to save time. Or is making a group entity how you do it?

Also thanks... This editor has really put the fun back into mapping! 
 
For now, yes. So select the brushes of the bits you want to be the prefab and right click and make it into a func_group (RMB -> Create Brush Entity -> Group).
This is actually a hold over for how it was done in radiant editors because they do not use a special map format.
Eventually, I think the plan is to create prefabs in external map files that you can then load into your actual map and then rotate, move, etc... (ie: they are not just pasted in, if you edited the original, then all the instances of that prefab would be updated). 
Buhhhh 
should be:
RMB -> Create Brush Entity -> Func -> Group 
FifthElephant 
Seeing Deck16 in Quake base textures fills me with joy :] 
Doh... 
I'm using Necros's compiling tool and it doesn't have a -group checkbox (I tried adding it manually in the folder setup but it said unknown option 'group') :P
I might just persevere with clicking on brushes like a maniac than having to

Thanks Spiney, it's smaller than the original but it will tighten up the gameplay a lot more. 
 
Because all compilers have their own switches, I left the creation of the buttons up to the user. Right click in an empty space to create a new button. :)

Which compiler are you using? 
 
I'm using the BJP tools that just came out -
http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60909 
 
That's odd, the tool reports that it has -group support.

You added -group into the command line arguments textbox in my compiler UI, it said unknown option in the dos box that pops up when you try to compile? 
Gizmo Argument 
i totally agree with herr sleep. gizmo is good for 3d modeling editors, but even there, there's possibility to move objects not clicking on gizmo. (in maya it's middlemousebutton, but you have to fucking ctrl-click on an axis first to set the plane of movement). personally i'm trying to avoid using gizmo in maya, but it reigns there and forces me to click on it sometimes. and modeling in maya is more precise and complex by nature than messing with simple brushes, so gizmo there is indeed more useful.

and trenchbroom totally dropped this precise clicking on gizmo which rocks. you rly don't need it because there're hotkeys (soon to be customized). 
 
Sorry, but TB requires shaders. I'll add minimum system requirements to the website.

Yeah. I kinda figured that which is why I mentioned it. No big deal, it's my fault that I was using such an old platform. I'm glad to hear that you're putting up minimum system requirements so someone else doesn't run into the same issue. 
Necros 
That's exactly right. It's no big deal really. 
Gizmos 
Were never a nice solution, after reading everything I'm relieved to see you've gone with the 'anything but' option.

Locking to an axis by a key press is much neater.

As to entity management, it'd be nice to have (another) worldcraft feature - the entity report.

https://photos-2.dropbox.com/t/0/AADr1aw1PnyNNTcQbVdVTPZvzwH4c0BYjA9KT_eZ5vy38g/12/88336058/png/32x32/2/1362405600/0/2/entity_report.PNG/St_OZhlgoCUFcMtWEWSx_lEQjwHovC2jfFUXKswUTUg?size=1280x960&size_mode=2

( Sorry for the retarded link - Dropbox decided to 'upgrade' their previously working frontend, apparently. )

Basically the entity report allows searching of entities by keyflags / type / spawnflags in an additional text window.

Lower priority than the fixed texture projection, but would be good.

I can see it becoming a more evolved system, that doesn't depend on a load of floating boxes pointing to level logic.

May be wishful thinking, but if you apply the same approach to entity mangement as you have to brushes then it'd be just as awesome.

As per your earlier comment, I don't want the WC entity report, my request is for 'a nice way to work with entities...'

And Congrats, Trenchboom is famous! 
Entity Report 
Well, that looks like an extension to the search and filter feature from the View inspector. I was thinking of improving the search syntax to allow stuff like "spawnflags = 1 AND classname = "monster_ijed", would that be a good replacement for that functionality?

What do you mean, famous? Carmack's tweet? Yeah, that felt quite nice! 
Hah 
Yeah the tweet - and this morning in the office someone (who isn't involved in Quake) started talking to me about a "the new Quake editor" :)

They actually arrived here and recognised my handle in the comments - which was weird.

I admit I haven't gone into the entity implementation properly yet, my earlier comments were just based on the brush editing.

Improving the search functionality would be ok, but I can imagine something more revolutionary. Like not visualising any pure-logic entities in the level, only physical entities. But also showing physical entities in the 'edit entity pane' - which would support all the current and suggested functionality.

That would be a ton of work though.

I'll have some more useful feedback over the coming week, as I try to get my current project converted over. 
Ijed 
That is mighty cool, it seems that a lot of people saw that (yet I didn't hear from anyone but the people on the forums I posted it on).

I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean about the entity functionality you are proposing. By "not visualizing" you mean hiding them from the view? That would be easy if there was a way to identify "pure logic" entities. Not sure that there is, but it could be added to the FGD / Def files.

"Showing physical entities in the edit entity pane" - By "edit entity pane" you mean the entity inspector (second tab on the right)? But what do you mean by "showing physical entities" there?

Sorry if I'm being daft, maybe it's a language thing. Could you elaborate a bit? 
It's Not You 
I tend to explain ideas elliptically / badly.

you mean hiding them from the view? Yes, but this would mean making the entity inspector powerful enough so that it wouldn't be necessary. The complex logic systems usually needed for set pieces in a map aren't helped by having the various entities visible in 3D space. There are much nicer systems that logic tree front ends but that'd be a lot of work to include.

More than anything this would be a new layer of interface.

By "edit entity pane" you mean the entity inspector?
Yes.

what do you mean by "showing physical entities" there?

Anything that is only logic wouldn't be visible, but other entities, for example "monster_thing" would be visible as well.

So a setup of:

monster_thing
monster_thing
monster_thing
+
trigger_counter
=
func_door

would have the door and monsters visible in 3D but not the trigger counter. All however would be shown in the entity inspector.

All of this is kind of dancing around the feature I'm suggesting though, which is referred to as a Visual Scripting Editor.

There are many different implementations of this, from very simple to extremely complex. Having a Quake version would be yet another evolutionary leap.

Ideas like the WC Entity Report or even the original id1 path system eventually evolved into Visual Scripting Editors.

Which are just more intuitive or user friendly ways of setting up level logic.

What I've written here is so open ended it could take years of work, whereas a more elegant and direct solution could provide the same functionality and take half a day. I need to get into the guts of the editor more to make more feasible suggestions. Converting over my current stuff should provide that though :) 
Ijed 
Now I understand what you want. We should discuss this more when the other, more essential features have been implemented. 
Of Course 
Lower priority. 
My Issue With Gizmo Vs Non-gizmo 
If it can be done without, that's great. However I find myself using the arrow keys more and more. The question to me is whether a slower and more calculated approach will save time in the end over a loose approach that requires more moves to complete. The current approach requires to switch the view constantly to get into a decent position to move stuff. I used to do sub-d modeling in Silo where pressing crtl will let you move vertices around parallel to the viewport. That's highly intuitive, but over time I found myself evolving to the 'slower' method of doing per axis movement since I didn't need to rotate the view constantly in order to get precise tweaks. So, I personally often prefer to take the ugly and slow 'long shortcut'... mileage might vary 
FifthElephant 
Are you getting an error from the compiler or from the GUI frontend ? The compiler should definitely support this. 
 
So, I'm just saying, if you can find something that keeps things as simple and straightforward as they are now, it's win-win. But I just feel more precise movement would save me a lot of time in the end, and I'm skeptical a non-gizmo thing can do that. They've been in virtually all 3D packages for almost 2 decades now which should account for something. But at the same time I would honestly love to be proven wrong. 
Rebb 
I get an error from the command line when I run the compiler and the BSP fails to run. (error code 01) 
Gizmos 
For me, the best thing about gizmos is it means you can securely move an object in any direction without having to get the camera view in a better position, and more importantly you don't have to keep holding different keys on the keyboard. 
 
So, I'm just saying, if you can find something that keeps things as simple and straightforward as they are now, it's win-win. But I just feel more precise movement would save me a lot of time in the end, and I'm skeptical a non-gizmo thing can do that. They've been in virtually all 3D packages for almost 2 decades now which should account for something. But at the same time I would honestly love to be proven wrong. 
Oh No, It's My Evil Twin Brother! 
 
Seriously Though, Same IP, What The Hell... 
 
 
You refreshed the page. Your browser sucks. 
"Gizmo" 
Can mean whatever its perceived as.

The task requirement is 'tool that allows precision movement along specified axis'.

Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue though. 
... 
 
... 
 
TrenchBroom 1.0.4 
Changes
- Improved Quake.fgd and Quoth2.fgd (thanks negke!).
- Improvements to clipboard pasting.
- Fixed a crash bug when loading maps with invalid brushes. 
 
I saw this in the notes for 1.0.3 and wanted to say that:

"Objects are no longer displaced when duplicated"

This is still offsetting duplicated things for me. Do I need to clear a config file or something? I checked the About box and it said 1.0.3 ... 
 
Same with 1.0.4 ... heh.

Am I interpreting that correctly as saying ctrl+d shouldn't be offsetting anymore? 
 
I think it *should* displace but should only displace one grid block toward you. 
 
Displacing sucks. :) We've talked about it already but every time it displaces my duplicate, I have to move it back into place before working with it. It's almost never what you want... 
Willem 
I made an error, the displacement will be gone in 1.1. Sorry! 
 
Heh, no worries! Thanks... 
 
I just realised that CTRL+D displaces by a small amount rather than the huge amounts that Copy and Paste are doing... I've wasted so much time (also, if you're duping brushes you're moving it somewhere else, plus it's better that it displaces so that you don't accidentally dupe multiple times without noticing). 
 
You'd think that, logically, but my experience says otherwise. Over time it becomes far easier to dupe in place and then move it since at least one of the axis that it got bumped on is going to be wrong. 
 
yeah, that is my experience with it also. I almost always follow a Ctrl+D with a Up and Left to push the brush back to the original spot. 
Re: Ijed's Post About Not Visualizing Logic Entities 
There is something like this in Quark.
The big difference with quark vs (afaik) all other editors is that there is a tree view of the entire map where you see individual entities and brushes as nodes in the tree, grouped by brush entities or user made group folders.

entities that are defined in a certain way (for example: trigger_relay, trigger_counter) do not appear in the map at all, only in the tree view. Since quark407 was the first editor I used, I was really confused about how script entities were like when I went over to radiant.
I actually still find them very cumbersome having all these boxes floating around with lines going everywhere. They are a very poor method of doing any kind of scripting.

There is a downside though: when you load a map like this in other editors, you end up with a giant pile of overlapping script entities all at '0 0 0'. :\ 
 
This looks really interesting! Is there any plans to support other closely related Quake1-engine games? Specifically: Hexen 2?
I REALLY need a better editor for the levels I am making... 
Other Games 
Quake 2 and 3 are on my todo list. You're the second person to ask for Hexen 2 support. I have no idea what would be necessary to support that game though. But I'll look into it once I start supporting other games. 
 
I think all it takes to make it support a wide variety of (id-engine) games are surface/brush flags and patches (curves). Everything else is a matter of having a proper fgd. Quest 2.4, for instance, supported HL, Hexen 2, Sin, and several Q1-3 mods out of the box with this additional fuctionality.

Having some visual representation of entity linking would be nice (target#/killtarget#->targetname#) of course, it would have to be toggleable to avoid a mess. necros, I usually place script entities close to their area of action for easier accessiblity. But, yes, things like relay and counters can be at 0 0 0, or even lack an origin field altogether. However, the editor must have an entity list then (TB needs one, too, if it doesn't have it already). 
Entity List 
There will be a Quark-like tree of everything the map contains in a future version.

Target link visualization is also on my todo list. 
Version 1.0.4.129 
Again can't run.
In log file many lines like:
5228 2013-03-05 14:28:30: Loading 'progs/player.mdl' (searching )
5228 2013-03-05 14:28:30: Unable to find MDL 'progs/player.mdl'

In the end:
WARNING: 30:1: implicit cast from int to float
5228 2013-03-05 14:28:31: Fragment shader(s) linked, vertex shader(s) linked.
5228 2013-03-05 14:28:31: Fragment shader(s) linked, vertex shader(s) linked.
WARNING: 30:1: implicit cast from int to float
5228 2013-03-05 14:28:31: Fragment shader(s) linked, vertex shader(s) linked.

And then there is the same window with an error that is repeated many times 
Digs 
Sorry if I asked you before, but what's your OS, graphics card and driver? I'll create a report for it, maybe I can fix it. 
 
Windows 7 Pro
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650 Series
Driver:
Provider: ATI Technologies Inc.
date: 04.08.2009
Version: 8.635.0.0 
 
Win 7 x64 
Your Driver Is Very Outdated 
I suggest you update it. I have seen crash bugs go away for several people after they updated their drivers. Just ask Scampie ;-)

http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/legacy/Pages/legacy-radeonaiw-vista64.aspx 
 
Yes, now run. Thanks! 
No Problem 
Have fun with it! 
King Of The Outdated Drivers :D 
 
You're Missing Something 
A paypal donate button on the main Trenchbroom page. 
No-one Has Asked The Most Important Question... 
Why is it called Trenchbroom anyway? 
Necros 
Ah, I forgot about Quark. Only used it briefly since I started with WC. Tree view sounds about right.

Maybe to mitigate the downside new logic entities could be offset 16 units, even though they're not seen. 
Paypal 
This is just a hobby for me, and I'm happy if people like the editor (and use it to create maps). I doubt I'd get a lot of money from it, and I don't really need it, either. Not that I'm rich, but I have a job that's paid well enough to support me and my family. 
FifthElephant 
Nobody has asked because these crusty Quake senior citizens already know the answer.

Back in the day, one of the most popular and respected deathmatch map review sites was RAMSHACKLE. You can view an archive of the site here: http://bit7.org/quake/mirrors/ramshackle/

The author of the reviews, Jeff Yost, was quite fond of using the term 'Trench Broom' to describe the double-barreled shotgun. Of course, the phrase has its origins elsewhere, but Jeff placed in the collective Quake consciousness via his entertaining reviews. 
The Name 
The name "TrenchBroom" is in reference to The Ramshackle, a Quake DM map review site by Jeff Yost. He kept referring to one of the Quake weapons (either the Shotgun or the GL) as "TrenchBroom".

I like the sound of the word, also it's rare enough that it's google friendly, and it references a Quake website that has been defunct for > 10 years now.

What's not to like? 
Entity Properties 
First of all, good work with the editor! I love the simplified 1-view only interface.
So, I decided to make something for Q1 again after 10+ years and one thing that confuses me are entity properties. I know I can add new keys, but shouldn't there be some predefined keys for let's say trigger_once? Is there any way to find which keys a specific entity has? 
Edit: Entity Properties 
Ok, I was lazy and didn't bother to read previous comments.
Only the last question remains: Is there any way to find which keys a specific entity has? Or should I check other editors for reference?

Thanks and keep on with the work :) 
Toomaa 
Right now, this information is not displayed in TB. I plan to greatly improve entity editing support, but it will take a while. For now, you can open the Quake.fgd file and look at it. 
I Have The Answer To The Duplicate Dilemma. 
It also brings about a decent productivity boost.

Firstly, the answer to the question of whether or not to translate an object created by using the standard duplicate operation is quite obvious. You should always move it away from the original object. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand why people want it to remain in place for faster re-positioning, but I don't think this is the answer - the danger of leaving objects on top of each other is too high. Yes, if you're paying attention you're fine, but there's always a chance that you'll hit duplicate accidentally (or repeatedly), or that you'll get distracted for a while and forget you've cloned the object when you return. You are then left with unwanted brushes which you will not be aware of - as far as I can tell, brushes in TrenchBroom don't z-fight if they are placed on top of each other either (even if they have different textures applied). This makes it impossible to know there's a problem if you're not looking for it.

Mr Fribbles, I don't want to hear problems, I want to hear solutions!

OK, here's the answer (or a suggestion, at any rate): an additional set of commands (and corresponding shortcuts) to duplicate and offset the selected object(s) in one go. I would suggest the hotkey set listed below (opinion alert, I'd also remap some of the current ones!)

LEFTARROW: move object left
RIGHTARROW: move object right
UPARROW: move object forward
DOWNARROW: move object back

CTRL+LEFTARROW: rotate object left
CTRL+RIGHTARROW: rotate object right
CTRL+UPARROW: move object up
CTRL+DOWNARROW: move object down

CTRL+SHIFT+LEFTARROW: duplicate object and move the clone left
CTRL+SHIFT+RIGHTARROW: duplicate object and move the clone right
CTRL+SHIFT+UPARROW: duplicate object and move the clone up
CTRL+SHIFT+DOWNARROW: duplicate object and move the clone down

Naturally you'd offset the object by the current grid amount (if snap to grid is on). If grid snap was off, pick your poison (a sensible default distance, or perhaps something clever such as offsetting the object by its width in the chosen direction!) 
Hmm 
Maybe the entire concept is not so good. Maybe it would be better to always duplicate objects just by dragging them, e.g. Ctrl+Drag will create a clone and move that.

OTOH, I wanted to use Ctrl+Drag to select multiple objects in a future version. But that could still be achieved if the drag starts with an unselected object. If it starts with a selected object, the selected objects would be cloned. 
Frib 
I could add keyboard shortcuts as well, of course. 
Let's Try That Again 
(Because I done fucked up!)

LEFTARROW: move object left
RIGHTARROW: move object right
UPARROW: move object forward
DOWNARROW: move object back

CTRL+LEFTARROW: rotate object left
CTRL+RIGHTARROW: rotate object right
CTRL+UPARROW: move object up
CTRL+DOWNARROW: move object down

SHIFT+LEFTARROW: duplicate object and move the clone left
SHIFT+RIGHTARROW: duplicate object and move the clone right
SHIFT+UPARROW: duplicate object and move the clone forward
SHIFT+DOWNARROW: duplicate object and move the clone back

CTRL+SHIFT+LEFTARROW: duplicate object and rotate clone left
CTRL+SHIFT+RIGHTTARROW: duplicate object and rotate clone right
CTRL+SHIFT+UPARROW: duplicate object and move the clone up
CTRL+SHIFT+DOWNARROW: duplicate object and move the clone down

Combine these with well chosen grid settings and you will be an unstoppable Quake editing beast of righteous fury. 
Why Not Just 
have "duplicate offset" in the options menu

That way, (most i think?) people can set this as (0,0,0), whilst others who prefer it to be offset can give it a different value. 
Oh Wait 

Maybe the entire concept is not so good. Maybe it would be better to always duplicate objects just by dragging them, e.g. Ctrl+Drag will create a clone and move that.

OTOH, I wanted to use Ctrl+Drag to select multiple objects in a future version. But that could still be achieved if the drag starts with an unselected object. If it starts with a selected object, the selected objects would be cloned.


this sounds like an even better idea. 
RE: RE: Paypal 
Well I read the 'free for beer' part, and thought 'Well, I can't buy him a beer directly - where do I donate?!'. And I actually went looking for the Paypal donate button. But there was none. So....

If I thought of it, others must have (surely :)

Maybe there'll be a few beers in it for you if you give us the means to buy you one!

You see I tried the editor, and I was so impressed and excited that it's a live project, I thought it WAS worth a beer. 
Hmm 
Fribbles, I think your proposal will interfere with other actions which are done using the arrow keys. Also I don't like the clone + rotate options because it can create the same problem as duplicate in place if the brush is symmetric. Also I'm not sure how often it's necessary to clone + rotate in place. And it's not much more work to clone-drag, then rotate. 
Beer 
Is always welcome, and if any of you guys is ever in Berlin (or I am near your place), you can buy me as many beers as you like (and I can drink). 
SleepwalkR 
I know I'm late to the party, but I wanted to thank you for making this, porting it over and continuing to support it!

This editor is full of win. I'm waiting till I have more time to fully dive into it (ok, full disclosure, I also really need the free fly mode before I can really get into it - I'm just too accustomed to it because of Radiant and my editor at work).

There's a lot to like here though! Quite frankly I'm amazed at how slick and easy to use this is. Top shelf! 
SleepwalkR 
Yeah, the last commands are just fruity bonus ones (although I do use the dupe + moveup/down a fair bit at work in our editor). I understand that some of what I proposed differs from or conflicts with the current paradigm.

Another limitation/difference you will note is that I favour moving the objects up/down using CTRL+UP/DOWNARROW which conflicts with the rotation commands in TrenchBroom. My reasoning is that moving up and down is a much more common activity than rotating up/down.

Of course, if the actions are there and can be remapped by the user, everybody wins. 
Frib 
Thanks, I'm happy to hear that you like it. Flythrough mode will happen in 1.1, due in a couple of weeks.

And you will be able to customize the keyboard in 1.1, too, so there's no point in discussing the current selection of keyboard shortcuts ;-). 
Hah! 
I'll keep my stupid suggestions to myself then. (Oh yeah you wish!) Here's a few more random thoughts and what have you.

Copy/paste transform
Useful for quickly repositioning objects or replacing stuff. "I want that thing over here." As you expect by now I offer key combo suggestions!

CTRL+SHIFT+C = copy transform of currently selected object
CTRL+SHIFT+V = paste selected object to saved transform

Gizmos and widgets
Stick to your guns and find the right solution for TrenchBroom. Let's be real and admit that certain things (such as small movement manipulators and fully mouse driven camera controls tee hee) can waste time and reduce productivity.

Mouse wheel to resize stuff
Just a suggestion. Get rid of the mouse wheel to zoom the view, and make it resize the brush according to the currently selected face. For example, select a face and mouse wheel up/down would effectively move that face positive/negative along its normal or the closest axis, whatever. Wheeeee! (The current method is fine, just for fun and freestyling.)

Texture flip request
Please make the flip operations work for the currently selected face (that is, change the scale to -1 (or negative<current value>) horizontally or vertically, whichever was chosen. Toggle it back to positive if it was already negative. Do this and you may genuinely never need to use the texture dialogue to enter manual offsets which would elicit a loud and hearty FUCK YES from everyone who ever used a level editor. 
><((((º> 
Ok, two more things and then I'll shut up for the night.

Selecting objects
Area select would be welcome of course, but please additionally consider paint select (both for brushes and faces) ala GtkR because it's just so fucking good.

Toggle brush outlines
Apologies if this has been mentioned (or can already be changed), but is there a way to toggle the white brush outlines? It's useful and I'd prefer to have it on most of the time, but sometimes I'd like to be able to turn it off to get a better idea of how things will look in game (or to see how well certain faces/textures sit with each other at the very edge, without the visual distraction). 
 
In terms of the duplicate argument I guess this is one time where I wouldn't be too opposed to a checkbox in the preferences:

[ ] Offset duplicates?

Then it either offsets based on your grid settings or it doesn't.

There seem to be strong opinions on each side of that one. 
 
You guys have to try the texture editing in Quark some day, because it rocks.

I also really miss the tree view of brushes and entities from it. It makes organising a map, selectively hiding or disabling parts, copy'n'pasting, mass changing things so easy. 
-group Problem And My Stupidity 
To appease rebb's brilliance and my idiocy it turns out I wasn't using his compiling tools at all, which is why it wasn't compiling func_groups properly. Sorry Rebb! 
 
Duplication:

Maybe make the duplicated content selected and "moving" when moving the mouse. Leftclick places where it is shown, rightclick places it in the original location.

Or paste it in place if the mouse cursor was on the selection. Otherwise place it at the mouse cursor. 
Frib 
Copy/paste transform
Can you explain this a bit more? I don't quite understand what you mean.

Mouse wheel resize
I like the current control scheme and I think that the current way of resizing brushes is better (allows you to also change back faces).

Texture flip
That sounds useful - will implement this.

Selecting objects
If by paint select you mean "select everything touched by the mouse while holding Ctrl", then that's already on my todo list.

Toggle brush outlines
You can already do this in the view tab (Toggle "Render Edges"). 
Toggle Brush Outlines 
You can switch these off, click "view" on the right and deselect "render edges" 
 
Fribbles

There's a checkbox on the "View" tab for the brush outlines. 
Willem 
I think if I get rid of the Duplicate command altogether and just let people use Ctrl+Drag to duplicate, that would elegantly resolve this discussion. 
 
Oh lawd... 
Spirit 
Texture editing will get an update in a future version where you will be able to move / rotate textures with the mouse. I also plan to add an "Align" button to the Face inspector which will align the texture to the brush edges (you can iterate through the edges by pressing the button repeatedly).

The tree view was in the Mac version of TB and it will eventually make a reappearance in this version. 
Woah, Hold Up There Son 
Why for no CTRL+D!? DO YOU HATE SPEED AND EFFICIENCY? :P 
Willem 
Don't like the idea? 
Frib 
I'll leave it in if people want it, but I think that the most common operation is to duplicate something and then move it to another location. How is Ctrl+D + Mouse Drag more efficient than Ctrl+Mouse Drag? 
Copy & Paste Transform 
SleepwalkR, the idea here is to simply copy the position of an object, allowing you to paste something to that location.

For example if you have a brush or entity at (64, 0, 128) for example, you could copy that position and then paste something to that location later (whether or not the original object is still there doesn't matter).

It's useful for replacing objects sometimes, and also just to get some crap from the other side of the map to where you want to be quickly. 
SleepwalkR 
The difference is, not everybody wants to drag it with the mouse. I'd prefer to use the keyboard shortcuts to move stuff when it makes sense to do so (for greater accuracy and/or speed).

This would be particularly true once you add the fly camera mode, so you could stay in that mode (assuming it's a toggle) and not have to turn it off to move something. (I'm assuming like Radiant and Hammer, you'd lock the cursor to the middle of the screen when engaging free fly mode so as not to allow it to drift out of the viewport). 
Frib 
Interesting idea. But I think it already does this, because if you paste while something is selected, the pasted stuff is positioned such that the grid-snapped center of the bounds of the objects of the clipboard is at the same position as the grid-snapped center of the current selecction.

So the workflow would be like so: You go to the other end of the map and copy some shit. Then you go to its destination position, select something that's rougly where you want the copied shit to go, and paste.

The only thing you can't do is repeadly transport objects to a target destination without returning to that destination. I guess this is where camera bookmarks, also a planned feature, will come in handy ;-). 
 
SleepwalkR

No, sorry, your idea sounds good. I was referring to the 3 duplicate answers in a row. :P 
Render Edges 
I see the 'render edges' option now. I completely missed that before. Thanks everyone! (I will now request a keyboard shortcut to toggle it in a very small voice... please, sir...) 
Rant 
For duplicating, I like the sound of selecting and dragging something while holding a key (shift or whatever). That's a pretty comfortable method I've seen in various editors and 3d apps.

The complex multiple key methods and with fixed offsets always feel clunky.

The texture argument is moot. Sorry. No matter how good a set of texture controls in another editor might feel, worldcraft wins because it has those extended controls for texture projection. (Yes, the ones that break Worldcraft compatability with everything else...)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l1go2qe6l3eakvg/texture_controls.PNG?m

Those justify controls automatically scale and align the texture to the face. The align world/face controls change the projection to one that actually fits on a non-orthagonal surface. Aligning rotated textures is a doddle with the additional buttons for scale, rotation and shift.

Replace is very powerful as well, allowing you to change all instances of a texture in a level with a few clicks, or just select all instances and modify how they;re aligned, scaled or whatever.

For me at least, these controls made all the hassle of the valve 220 format worth it. If we could have that level of efficiency in texture application but not have to piss about converting textures then it'd be like mapping in the future. 
Duplicate & Flythough Mode 
Frib, I'm not adverse to adding the copy + displace in one direction commands that you proposed.

I'm just saying that the duplicate command, whether it displaces by some constant amount in a direction that is dependent on the camera direction (the way it is now), or whether it doesn't displace at all, is not as useful because

- either it puts stuff where you don't want it or
- you might miss that you actually duplicated something (although the selection would flash white to give feedback) and end up with unwanted brushes.

I agree that it should be possible to duplicate stuff with the keyboard, but it should give the user the option to control where the duplicated stuff goes. So Ctrl+Direction keys to duplicate with the keyboard and Ctrl+Mouse drag to duplicate with the mouse. Problem solved. 
 
One idea that I loved from Hammer when I was doing Left 4 Dead mapping is that Valve does this great this where it pastes to the spot you're pointing at with the mouse. This is HUGELY useful for items and deco stuff.

You already have really good code for pointing into the world (the clipping tool and vertex modes obviously use it), so that would be easy to implement. 
Paste Behaviour 
Interesting idea. But I think it already does this, because if you paste while something is selected, the pasted stuff is positioned such that the grid-snapped center of the bounds of the objects of the clipboard is at the same position as the grid-snapped center of the current selecction.

Hmm, it doesn't seem to do that for me (if it did, that would most likely be a fine solution as you suggest). It always pastes it at the same default distance from the camera here, and does not seem to be influenced in any way by the current selection. 
Half Life 1 Support? 
Not exactly a request, just thinking out loud. Would it be possible? I can't think of any alternatives to WC/Hammer for HL1, but an editor like TB could be interesting.

Food for thought when supporting other games, perhaps? 
Ijed 
The justify controls are what my Align button will do. The rest hinges on Valve 220 support, which is planned for release 1.2.

Texture replace is something that could be solved with the search filter. Just filter the map by the texture name you want to replace, select all faces, then switch to the face tab and select another texture.

Not sure if that will work currently, as the search filter is quite rudimentary, but if it doesn't I'll be happy to implement it. 
Duplicate Functionality 
Ctrl+Direction keys to duplicate with the keyboard and Ctrl+Mouse drag to duplicate with the mouse. Problem solved.

I understand now, and agree that that sounds like a good solution. 
Err, Flythrough Mode Again 
I forgot to reply to that one.

The flythrough mode will allow you to keep editing. The cursor will be frozen in the center (as a crosshair), and you will be able to do anything just like before. Of course, moving stuff will also rotate the camera, but that doesn't seem to hurt as can be observed in this cool video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkFT1ra2w-A 
Frib 
The new copy and paste code is in the 1.1 codebase, sorry. 
Willem 
In 1.1, paste will just paste in the original position (if nothing else is selected). I like your idea and will try it out. 
I Love You! Awesome Editing Tool! 
Way to go! I am all about good tool pipelines for game development. Imagine what folks would have done back in the day if the developer tools allowed such an intuitive environment for level authoring. This rocks! I cant say enough how much I appreciate this project.

I have a big soft spot for the older retro games but I have become spoiled by the likes of UDK and unity for level editing. Going back to the old editors lacking a proper 3d editing environment is a big hurdle these days. We are so used to more polished programs.

I think you might just have injected new life into the older titles sir! If you add quake 2 support "KMquake2 entity support would be even better" then I would be lost for months on end making new content for that game.

Cheers and keep up the great work! 
Skiffy 
Thanks, and Quake 2 and Quake 3 support is on my todo list. Quite a number of people are asking for it, so I guess it will happen rather sooner than later.

I don't know about KMquake2, is it a mod? If so, all you need is a proper entity definition file (TrenchBroom will load .FGD and .DEF files). 
Well 
I mean to write "all you WILL need", because I'd have to do Quake 2 support first. 
KnightMare 
Is a Quake2 mod, one that adds a massive amount of stuff. 
 
Quake 2 and 3 are on my todo list. You're the second person to ask for Hexen 2 support. I have no idea what would be necessary to support that game though. But I'll look into it once I start supporting other games.

Thanks! The H2 community is pretty small but we'd all really appreciate it. I don't think there is that much of a difference between the engines, but I'll see if I can find any necessary details myself. 
Razumen 
Yes, that would be helpful. When the time comes, I can also talk to Ozkan Sezer, who develops the uHexen2 engine. 
Texture Alignment 
If anyone is wondering (and is making odd or very angular geometry) I have found the texture alignment on Tyr's tools to be more accurate when you use the -oldaxis command line argument on the bsp program. Dunno why this is though... 
Yes 
Maybe we should mention this in the docs:

- In txQBSP, you must NOT supply the -altAxis argument for TrenchBroom.
- In Tyrann's tools, you must supply the -oldAxis argument for TrenchBroom.

The reason is in the method to select the projection axis for the textures. I'll add this to the issue tracker so that we can add it to the docs. 
KMquake2 
Well its a recompiled quake 2 engine with tons of extra features added. Indeed it has the .FGD and .DEF files setup. Well sir you had my curiosity now you have my attention.

Cheers! 
Thank You!!!!! 
Time to put away the Hammer and pick up the Broom.

Just when it seems like things are slowing down around here. Out comes all these wonderful new toys. 
Shit 
i read this thread lsat week and thought hmm that might be an editor suited for me, Dl'ed it installed crashed checked the req's dléd MS c++ crap, found out already had that installed. Then i see videocard drivers mentioned and im currently using my Mobo's gfx, meh (burned my gfx card on diablo3) 
Quake.fgd 
Just noticed it's missing at least two standard entities: viewthing and misc_noisemaker. I suppose hardly anyone ever uses them, but they should be included still. 
Aren't 
They both debug entities? 
Yes 
They are. 
Fair Enough 
 
Negke 
Would you be so nice? Just send me the definitions in an email so that I can add them to both FGDs. 
Orbs 
It requires OpenGL 2.1 and GLSL 1.2. I should do a better job of detecting these things and not crashing, though. 
AFAIK 
These should work;

@PointClass size(-8 -8 -8, 8 8 8) color(0 255 0) = misc_noisemaker : "debug entity" []

@PointClass size(-8 -8 -8, 8 8 8) color(0 255 0) = viewthing : "fake player" [] 
Thanks! 
 
Should They Have The Appearflags Baseclass? 
The Appearflags base class adds spawnflags for skill levels. Or should they have any other properties?

Also, should they also be added to Quoth2.fgd? 
Ah 
I cobbled those together, removing the baseclass since the fgd I took the syntax from has more involved baseclass' for various things.

I'm guessing you want these for entity hacks negke? 
Excuse My Noobiness 
I kind of know what opengl is, i dont know if my card supports 2.1 though, how do i find this out, should the manufacturer list this? Never heard about GLSL at al, same kind of thing? Something your gfxcard either can handle or not? 
@Orbs 
Basically if your cards original specs say that it can handle games with Shaders v2.0 then you "Should" be able to run this. It won't break anything to give it a try and see if this will run on your PC. In my case it stopped right after the console said something about loading shotgun.mdl.

You may need to update the video card drivers so that the card can handle Shaders 2.X but that's a software upgrade and I can't think of a reason why a 2.0 piece of hardware wouldn't be able to handle 2.X with the correct drivers.

Without more information this is as good as it can get as far as help goes. If you have a year of manufacture, make and model number of the original PC (2005 Dell abc201 for example) then maybe you can get more assistance here. If you added a gfx card on your own then you need to go to their web site and find the latest driver package applies to that card. Note that it will probably be either Nvidia or ATI\Radeon based so even if you get a card from a third party they should still be able to use their drivers (but perhaps not their consoles but that's usually not a problem as most installers give you the option to not install those anyway and just install the drivers instead). 
2D Overview 
I am loving the editor so far, but the lack of a 2D overview like in for example Radiant is annoying the hell out of me. There is no way to keep oversight on a big, complicated map with just the 3D view.

I think a 'free flying' camera mode was already suggested, so I'll not mention it. (Lies!)

Thank you once again for this editor, after years of dealing with either shit like WorldCraft or shit like Radiant, this is just so awesome. 
Not Tried Yet But... 
One of the things I like most about Worldcraft is that to copy stuff you just shift + drag it to the new location. I find that so much better and more efficient than duplicate in place like in Maya, or duplicate with offset like in Radiant. It also has duplicate special that lets you copy and paste in place, or set rotations and offsets that accumulate from each copy (I never use this though, though I do in Maya.) 
Lava, Than 
I'm aware that 3D only is bad for overview and I'm thinking about ways to improve it.

Than, drag-duplicate is on the feature list for 1.1. 
Not Needed 2D Views Yet.. 
I think I find the opposite of what Lava Croft said is true, on bigger maps the 2d views simply become like muddled spaghetti, doing everything in 3d is making everything so much simpler (and fun, I'm enjoying every minute of mapping!).
Also, Than, you should try it. (I emailed you ages ago and I know you said you were going to take a break but this editor is so addictive, I'm not even going to reinstall Worldcraft). 
SleepwalkR 
I had an idea, if you want to bash in a 2d mode why not have the 1,2,3 and 4 keys cycle through each grid plane? (that way you don't have to give up the real estate offered by a single window). 
In Quark 
2d views are fairly easy since it will grey out brushes that are not also visible in the other viewports.

I miss a 2d overview in tb too, especially if you want to quickly draw some floor plan. hotkeys would rock. 
Floorplans, Relative Positions 
Yeah, I think some sort of 2d mode is essential when blocking out.

for example I always need to bang down a load of brushes at precise relative positions from each other. Currently, let's say you have 2 brushes at arbitrary positions - in radiant it's really easy to set their relative positions just by looking at them in the 2 views. In TB I can't really do this sort of positioning...unless I missing something obvious? 
Blah 
looking at them in the 2 views

that should read:
looking at them in the 2D views 
2D Mode 
The 2D mode would be a mini map that is either overlaid on top of the 3D view or shown in a separate window. It would not be used for editing at all, only to get an overview and for navigation.

Kinn, if you drag a brush, you will see laser beams coming from its bounding box. Those beams should help you to position brushes relative to each other. They are not useful for measuring the distance to other objects, but I can add that and show the distance to the closest object hit by a laser beam. 
 
What's funny is that I thought the laser beams were just graphical sugar at first but then I started leveraging them for positioning and aligning stuff and they're just absolute GOLD now. 
Laser Beams 
yeah, I don't really find the laser beams help that much tbh.

What happens is i have to set a camera view, then move the brush so the laser beams appear to be lined up in that view. Except, chances are they won't be actually lined up, and i have to change camera view, then rinse/repeat until i've actually got them lined up.

e.g. view 1: they look kinda lined up here:
http://i.imgur.com/oaGALu6.png

move the camera a bit though and see they are actually off in all 3 axes:
http://i.imgur.com/LSijyg8.png 
 
I still think if you're going to implement 2d views you should bind the main viewport to cycle the axis using keys 1-4... hopefully this will be possible using custom key binds. I'm getting along fine right now without 2d, but it would help on the odd occasion that I need really fine-control over what I'm doing. 
Kinn & FifthElephant 
I agree that positioning brushes like this is cumbersome in 3D. It gets easier once you have more brushes, but if you're in the void, it doesn't work very well. Will have to think about that.

Cycling through 2D views - what for? The 2D view, as it is planned now, is only there for orientation. I specifically don't want to give the impression that you can use it for editing. I want to avoid that people try to click and drag objects in the 2D views. That would mean that the 3D only approach has failed.

If eventually it turns out that you really can't map without fully functional 2D views, I'll reconsider them, but only as a last resort. Or maybe this editor isn't for everyone. Let's give everyone some time to get used to it, and then we'll see what happens.

Meanwhile, if anyone has any ideas about how to improve the problems that Kinn is describing in post #273 WITHOUT falling back to 2D views, let's hear them! 
Afterthought 
So, maybe you didn't notice it yet, but the laser beams leave a mark if they hit something. So if a laser beam hits a face, there will be a red dot where the face is hit.

But I think this doesn't work well if the laser beam hits face at an edge or vertex (sometimes the mark is shown, sometimes it isn't).

If I were to improve this so that the hit mark is shown reliably, would that improve matters? I guess it will still be difficult to know where to move the brush if it isn't aligned, though.

necros suggested freely positionable grid planes at some point. That would be a possible solution. The idea is that you can tell the editor to show a grid plane (either XY, XZ, or YZ) at a specific position which you can change with the mouse. Then you could basically just drop a grid wherever you need it and disable it again later. 
2D Mode 
The oversight is the most important factor for me, the ability to edit in 2D can be missed. 
SleepwalkR 
I personally think the editor is very good, but if you were to include a 2d view then I think it'd be fairly sweet if you could use the number keys 1-4 to cycle through the various 2d grids (and 3d viewpoint) kind of how the Opera browser allows you to cycle through open tabs using the 1-4 keys.

That being said I really am doing *very* well without the 2d grid. I'm about 75% complete on the geometry of my first TB map, even managed to make some lovely curved wall templates. :) 
 
Or maybe this editor isn't for everyone

Yes, THIS. :) Software becomes bloated and awful when it tries to be everything to everyone. Focused design is key to awesomeness - even if it leaves some users behind. 
Hmmm 
I know i used to use a function in some modelling app - can't remember what it was - maybe solidworks?

Anyway - let's say you select a brush - brush A, and then ctrl-select a second brush - brush B.

I remember I then had options, something like: "Align A to B in Y-axis", or "Align A to B in Z-axis" etc etc.

It's a bit clunky though. 
Help With Tutorials 
I would like to have some tutorials available for new users. There are several options:

- Included in the documentation as text + images.
- Hosted on a wiki to be set up on my website.
- Youtube videos (Daz, I'm looking at you!)

I'm thinking that there should be a combination of these. The editor should come with simple tutorials such as "My first room" and "How to compile my shit" etc. More advanced stuff should go in a wiki so that we can keep it up to date easily.

Daz, seriously, I dig your videos, so if you are up for it and find the time, I'd love it if you were to make a video tutorial or two. Your narration is also quite good, unlike mine which sounds like a steamrolled duck. 
Kinn 
That indeed sounds a bit clunky because you have to think about which axis is which first. By I hadn't even considered alignment buttons, so I'll think about it - maybe I can find a way to make them work well. 
 
Yes, THIS. :) Software becomes bloated and awful when it tries to be everything to everyone. Focused design is key to awesomeness - even if it leaves some users behind.

That depends on what the design goal is - if the goal is "be the best quake editor that only has a 3d view", then yes, but if the goal is "be the best quake editor", then you have to consider whether 2d views are a worthwhile addition. 
SleepwalkR + Kinn 
I love that idea! Why not it snap to the face of the brush? Like the Alt + Click for textures?

So you select the face of the brush using shift + click, and then hold say M (for move) + click and it will push the faces together. 
Goddamnit! 
i was just about to post a similar suggestion - yes align to face - that would be elegant 
Fifth 
That is not the problem Kinn is trying to solve. He wants to be able to align two brushes with each other, but only in two dimensions. They should keep a certain distance to each other.

Kinn, if I'm not mistaken you want this so that you can block out your layouts. Wouldn't it be easier to start with the floors though? Once you have a floor in place, it's much easier to keep the brushes aligned. 
Now I'm Confused 
You just want to put brushes right next to each other so that they share a face? 
Nope 
so face A on brush A shares the same plane with face B on brush B

they wouldn't be pushed together, Brush A would be moved just so the faces line up on the plane of face B 
Aha 
But that would only work if the two faces have the same normal.

I'm not so sure about this. It sounds like it's only of limited use. And you'd have to do it twice to have the brushes line up in two dimensions. 
Yeah It's A Bit Messy 
the earlier idea where you can only snap to one of the ortho axes of brush A's bounds is probably better. 
 
Once the faces are next to each other it wouldn't take much more effort to to press alt/click to line the other axis together. I think it'd work. 
No 
You have to select a different face, then click on the face you want to align again. If you want to align several brushes, it gets even more cumbersome.

And it will only work if the faces have the same normal. There must be a better way. 
 
what about showing coordinates of vertices the mouse pointer hovers and allow the user to move a brush by selecting it and typing in the coordinates (autocad style, just 123,53,67)? then one could fairly easily make two brushes/selections placed similarly as needed. the problem here would be determining what base point to use. 
Spirit 
The coordinates are already shown when you hover over a vertex in vertex mode. But moving brushes by entering the deltas? I don't like that very much, I think a "align on XY / XZ / YZ" buttons would be better than that. 
But Then 
you're moving brushes around by typing numbers into boxes and suddenly it's getting a bit ugly and cumbersome. 
2D Views 
I was going to weigh in on this one before, but didn't because I haven't been using the editor recently and so haven't seen the latest versions.

A 2D view should instead be described as a layout view or, better yet, and overview - just because this is the objective you're describing SleepwalkR.

I agree with Willem in that the goal of the editor should remain the same since this focus will produce a and more elegant end result.

An overview could easily be described as a 3D camera thats far away from the level. So in other words, you just zoom out. Or select a secondary camera that you placed wherever was best for seeing the overall layout.

This doesn't work for brushes because they have visible faces on all sides - you can't see what's inside the level unless you set some sort of 'editor skip' texture on the outside that doesn't get drawn.

Just a random idea. Automatically detecting what's inside or outside a level on the fly would be like dynamically vising it. Which probably isn't a good idea. And would probably break anyway with a WIP level that's being blocked out.

Another idea would be selecting groups of brushes and being able to assign them (another WC feature!) visgroups. So the user can just hide colelctions of brushwork as they see fit.

Then snap to various cameras to see the layout.

A 2D view would obligate having various 2D views - imagine looking at The Living End or Skinny Norris in an editor and you'll have completely different things to look at, ones that an orthographic 2D view isn't 100% suited to, I suspect. 
Overview 
I suspect that 2D (or rather orthographic projection) is better suited for an overview mode simply because there's less visual clutter. To see what I mean, go to the View tab and set it not to render the faces, then zoom out of a larger level. You can't make out anything.

In a 2D view with ortho projection, there would be less clutter because points on edges with the same X and Y coordinates get drawn only once. Look at a cube from above with ortho projection and it's a square.

However, even if you do this, if there is a lot of geometry stacked on top of each other, you're still going to have problems to use this as an overview. I have been thinking about this problem and I guess what you need is a way to limit what is drawn in the 2D view by discarding everything that is not in a certain range on the Z axis. Then you can limit the map to a certain "storey" of your level. Add to that the ability to zoom in and zoom out and to place the (3D view's) camera, and this should be a helpful addition.

Think of this 2D view as the inverse of what the 3D view was in early editors, where it was mainly used to get an impression of how things will look in the game, and not a view where you did your editing. Now you do all your editing in the 3D view, but use the 2D view to an idea of the level's structure and to quickly navigate to different locations in the level.

I'm just not sure how to integrate this into the UI yet. There are several options:

- Additional window, possible floating above the main window.
- Integrate it into the editor UI, possibly below the inspector.
- Make it an overlay over the 3D view that you toggle on and off with a keystroke.
- The overlay could either be as large as the entire 3D view or
- The overlay could be smaller and just be in the upper right corner of the 3D view. 
Or Slice The 3D View 
Another option could be to have a shortcut that enables a mode where the camera orbits around the entire level at a great distance. In this mode, the mouse wheel would not let you move the camera forward or backward, but it would control the distance between the camera and a "clipping plane".

This clipping plane will then be used to remove from the view everything that is closer than the plane's distance from the camera. (For OpenGL afficionados: Similar to the near clipping plane). That way you could slice away stuff from your level and look into it. There should also be a way to quickly leave this mode and transport the camera to a point of your choosing.

This would completely avoid the need for a 2D view, at least for the issue of the overview over the entire level.

Thoughts? 
Random Thought 
Perhaps a 2Dish view integrated into the 3D environment where the camera switches to a front/top/side that's fixed with the axes. Like in isometric strategy games that allow you to watch the playfield from straight above. When active, the textures could become 75% transparent and the grid lines more prominently visible. Ideally with an adjustable farclip to make it less messy. 
Negke 
Mac TrenchBroom had this, and it wasn't very useful. I like the slice mode better. 
Hey That Was My Idea! 
 
Oh, I See 
 
It Was? 
I must have missed that. 
 
At a glance, your suggestion sounded somewhat similar. 
Slice + Strategy View? 
 
 
SleepwalkR

You mentioned needing tutorials and such. You might want to touch base with Alex over at:

http://www.worldofleveldesign.com/

I bet he'd be willing to do a whole series on TrenchBroom ... 
Willem 
Thanks! 
According To Intell 
it should support 2.0 vertex shader and pixel shader support. Just checked the start up process, and mine crashes after the shotgun.mdl. Il try reinstalling the card 
Meh 
stil same crashes 
Orbs 
Can you give me the manufacturer and model of your GFX card and the driver version? 
Omfg 
Smooth 3d camera view! I never knew what I was missing using WC 1.6b all this time :)

This is seriously excellent work SleepwalkR! However, as a Wacom tablet user I find the camera navigation a bit of a pain in the ass because I don't have a scroll whell on my mouse. Is there any chance you could make the camera controls adjust when the alt key is pressed (assuming this doesn't get in the way of anything else)? I'm thinking holding alt would make the middle mouse and moving the mouse/pen move the camera forward and backward.

Anyone else use a Wacom for everything (not just photoshop/zbrush etc)?

More extensive filters and perhaps even some kind of visgroups like system would great, though I've not exactly spent much time with the editor yet, so I don't know quite what is and isn't possible.

One other thing I thought I had posted already, but maybe not, is that WC handles cloning by shift + drag object. This works great, though WC is a 2d editor, and the drag clone makes perfect sense in 2d, wheras it might be hard to do correctly in 3d. 
Ah... 
I did mention the shift drag thing :)

Looking forward to trying 3d only editing now. I'm going to go through the docs and build a simple map I think.

By the way, I love how easy the set up is, and that TB uses the wadstring of the .map file. This is something WC does not do, and it sucks working on more than one map at a time because of it. 
Than... 
I just use Ctrl + D to dupe objects... It's fairly quick to get something good whipped up.

I'm thinking of asking my friend to help me make a tutorial video (I can make levels but I can't make videos... wtf). 
Than 
This is seriously excellent work SleepwalkR!

Thanks!

However, as a Wacom tablet user I find the camera navigation a bit of a pain in the ass because I don't have a scroll whell on my mouse. Is there any chance you could make the camera controls adjust when the alt key is pressed (assuming this doesn't get in the way of anything else)? I'm thinking holding alt would make the middle mouse and moving the mouse/pen move the camera forward and backward.

This is a good idea. I will include this in 1.0.5, to be released in a couple of days.

More extensive filters and perhaps even some kind of visgroups like system would great, though I've not exactly spent much time with the editor yet, so I don't know quite what is and isn't possible.

TrenchBroom currently lacks a proper group / layer system, but this is on the todo list. It will be based on func_groups, which I plan to extend so that you can add entities to them (currently a func_group can only contain brushes). This also gives you the ability to have hierarchical groups. Add to that a group browser where you can quickly hide and lock groups and it should be really powerful.

One other thing I thought I had posted already, but maybe not, is that WC handles cloning by shift + drag object. This works great, though WC is a 2d editor, and the drag clone makes perfect sense in 2d, wheras it might be hard to do correctly in 3d.

Yeah, this is on the todo list for 1.1. 
More Suggestions 
God I fucking love this editor. Feels a bit clunky now, but that's just because I'm not used to it yet. Feels so fucking modern and awesome... I've been using WC 1.6a (last version 1998...) since I started mapping and have yet to find an editor I liked more. Trenchbroom is still lacking some of the nicer features of WC, but it's really amazing so far and has a lot of things WC 1.6a will never have, such as 3 point clipping and 3d editing that works (WC 1.6a actually has 3d editing for some modes, such as vertex manipulation, but it sucks)

+ shortcut to hide selection highlight and outlines
+ flat render mode should probably have shading based on face + camera normal

I wonder how you could go about implementing some kind of visgroup style system without breaking the map format. One thing you could do is perhaps have a func_group for each area you want to group that could have an name key that would be handled by Trenchbroom so that it is automatically loaded into visibility groups on map load and regrouped on save. This would presumably allow it to stay compatible with compilers, and with better filters, there would be no real need to have visgroups that support entities like WC has. However, you would need to be able to filter much better than you can currently. For example, filter by flags (e.g. not in dm, skill level), target, targetname, entity type (not just built in types) and perhaps even combinations would be amazing.

Also, a mode that renders faces with flagged textures as wireframe or translucent would be quite nice; It would be useful to be able to draw skip faces simply as wireframe for instance. 
Hierarchical Groups 
Awesome! Are you planning on adding more extensive filters?

Btw, sorry I couldn't help with the Linux port. I wanted to but couldn't get it building, no matter how hard I tried :/ 
Btw 
Your vertex/edge editing mode is amazing! Fucking love it. WC worked ok, since you could select multiple vertices at once and use box selection on them for fairly quick editing, but it was horrible to use in the 3d view and didn't auto clump vertices, so editing rocks was a pain in the arse. TB handles this really well.

Clipper is just unbelievable too!

I love how clean and stable everything feels too! You guys have done a great job and I will probably switch over to TB and get mapping soon and help as much as I can with testing and feature suggestions, though if I have time I would love to actually try helping implement features. 
Sorry To Keep Spamming 
Maybe it's just my weird brain, but grid shortcuts make more sense as powers of two btw. Since you can't map ctrl + 256, maybe ctrl+1 = 2 (2^1), ctrl+2 = 4 (2^2) etc. would make more sense. Is there any point in having grid size 1?

The only reason I am mentioning this is because I have a Japanese keyboard and ctrl + and ctrl - don't work :/ + and - work in WC 1.6a, but they are assuming my keyboard is US I think. 
Than 
+ shortcut to hide selection highlight and outlines

Outlines can be hidden in the View tab, doesn't that also hide the selection outline? Oh, you want a shortcut for it. Okay, will add to the issue tracker.

+ flat render mode should probably have shading based on face + camera normal

I have added this to the issue tracker.

I wonder how you could go about implementing some kind of visgroup style system without breaking the map format.

func_groups get names and some status bits (hidden, locked etc.). If an entity is added to a group, it gets a key such as "_group" = "<name of that group>". That's all. Other editors will not understand it, but it won't bother them either. QBSP ignores all keys that start with an underscore.

Also, a mode that renders faces with flagged textures as wireframe or translucent would be quite nice; It would be useful to be able to draw skip faces simply as wireframe for instance.

This is already on the todo list.

Awesome! Are you planning on adding more extensive filters?

Yes, definitely.

Btw, sorry I couldn't help with the Linux port. I wanted to but couldn't get it building, no matter how hard I tried :/

No problem. I have fixed most issue with the Linux port, but I'm having trouble creating binaries for it. It seems that the compilation process is not compatible with how you create debian packages, so I'll have to write / adapt the makefiles. If anyone is versed in this, or knows someone who might be able to help out, I'd appreciate a shout. 
We Should Get A Room Or Something 
Maybe it's just my weird brain, but grid shortcuts make more sense as powers of two btw. Since you can't map ctrl + 256, maybe ctrl+1 = 2 (2^1), ctrl+2 = 4 (2^2) etc. would make more sense. Is there any point in having grid size 1?

You will be able to customize all keyboard shortcuts in 1.1.

I love how clean and stable everything feels too! You guys have done a great job and I will probably switch over to TB and get mapping soon and help as much as I can with testing and feature suggestions, though if I have time I would love to actually try helping implement features.

Thanks again. The stability and level of polish is largely necros' achievement, he did lots and lots of testing for me and he was also a great help to get the user interface to be coherent. Coherence is a big thing for me, and I think it's one of the main reasons why the editor is so slick.

If you want to help out with programming, that would make me very happy. I'm doing this all alone in my free time, and it would be great to offload a bit of work here and there. I suggest that you create a fork on github as soon as you're ready and look at the source. Then you can claim a feature request on the issue tracker and start banging away. Once you're done, you just send me a pull request and I will integrate your changes in the master branch.

If you have any questions or need an introduction into TB's architecture and design, let me know and we can schedule a skype session or something. 
Sorry To Keep Spamming 
Maybe it's just my weird brain, but grid shortcuts make more sense as powers of two btw. Since you can't map ctrl + 256, maybe ctrl+1 = 2 (2^1), ctrl+2 = 4 (2^2) etc. would make more sense. Is there any point in having grid size 1?

The only reason I am mentioning this is because I have a Japanese keyboard and ctrl + and ctrl - don't work :/ + and - work in WC 1.6a, but they are assuming my keyboard is US I think. 
Will Do! 
(btw, sorry for that repost, I refreshed the page and something fucked up)

I'll fork it once I've had a bit more of a play with it and have a good idea of what things I would like to see in it. I wanted to make my own editor a while ago, and also wanted to do some open source stuff lately, so this would be a perfect project to help on :) 
One Last Thing 
I'll shut up after this and start adding these ideas and feature requests in a sensible place, but some kind of export map support would actually be helpful I feel. Basically, have a button that saves the map to a default location with a set name without making Trenchbroom start to use that file as the current map would be great for compiling.

I'm not sure how many people do this, but I have a batch file set up for compiling that always uses a default file that I export from WC (always quake\id1\maps\current.map) and being able to auto save to this file would be handy. Currently if I save to that file, trenchbroom then continues editing with that file as the live file, which is not really what I want to do.

If this is something other people would like perhaps it would be a good thing to add? 
Cool Editor Bro 
I like the 3d-only concept but I can't figure out how to do the simplest of things. Forgive my ignorance, it's been literally years since I've done any mapping.

1 - Since there's only the 3d view, when i click and drag to make a new brush, what determines what axis i'm dragging on? The camera angle?

2 - How do I resize a brush? When I select it it seems I can only move it or select individual faces. Is it only by vertex editing? Because-

3 - Similar to #1- I was trying to mitre two brushes together and just dragging the two corner vertices on a single brush never actually put them where I wanted. Is this just a matter of using clipping instead? 
Notorious... 
The first brush in the empty void is always a bit of a pain.
You can pull brush faces across a plane by holding shift and click/drag.
No idea what you mean by mitre two brushes... you can select vertex editor by pressing V. 
NotRay 
You should have a look at the documentation. It's all in there. But as I hate the "RTFM" folks, here are some pointers:

1 - Depends on what you're clicking on. If you start the drag in the void, then it's the camera angle. If you start your drag on another brush, it's the plane of the coordinate system that is most similar to the face's boundary plane.

2 - Hold Shift and move the mouse next to or on top of the face that you want to move. The face that will be moved is highlighted with a white outline. Then start dragging with the left mouse button to move that face.

3 - Vertices are only moved by fixed offsets and are not automatically snapped to the grid. If that is what you want, you must hold Shift while dragging the vertex. If you want to move the vertices vertically, you need to hold Alt while dragging. 
Than 
That sounds like an obscure feature to me. If you can muster up other people who want this, then I'll add it, otherwise I'd rather leave it out because it's something you can easily change in your batch file.

Do other editors actually support this workflow? 
Visgroups 
I thought of a simpler way this could be done than adding additional controls, although it'd only work for entities. How about hiding or not via keyvalues - say, everything with the name 'key_door' or of the class 'func_door'.

Just a series of bitflags, really, although detecting the targetnames of stuff would be more difficult. 
Tutorial Videos... 
I am in talks with a friend who makes professional videos about making a few tutorial vids. Hopefully I can get it done, might not be straight away though. 
Ijed 
That would be a use case for filtering, but groups are different. I think there are other reasons to make groups:

1. You want to be able to quickly select objects that belong together because they form an architectural feature, such as a door incl. its frame. The goal is to edit them as a group.
2. You want to be able to quickly hide stuff that forms an entire part of the level, such as a bunch of rooms with the interconnecting corridors. The goal is to unclutter the view.

I want to implement both functions using func_groups because then I can get by without extending the map format. As for additional controls, I think this could be nicely integrated with the planned map browser (tree of all objects in the map). Not sure yet. In any case, groups would have additional checkboxes for hiding and locking them individually. 
FifthElephant 
Nice! That would be very cool! 
Linux Support 
I've done a bit of debian packaging (and know people who have done a _lot_), I'll try to take a look at some point. It probably won't be until April though. so if someone beats me... 
Local Rotation? 
Hello again. I have one question about rotation. Do you think you could add the option to use local object space for brush rotation? It would be nice to rotate the object and have the gizmo update with it instead of the default world space rotation axis.

I use this a lot in normal 3d modeling when placing decoration bits. It sure would make things like fallen over pillars easier to place with the ability to adjust their spin on their local z axis after you rotate them at odd angles. 
Skiffy 
That would only work for one session with the rotation tool as brushes don't have local coordinate systems. And since you can achieve the same result be reordering your rotations, I don't think it's necessary? 
Mwh 
Oh, that would be great. I plan to change the dependencies so that you don't have to make your own build of wxWidgets on Linux anymore, maybe it will be easier then. 
Sleep 
Worldcraft only has it because it uses its own map format that is not compatible with the compilers. Because of this, I can happily work away in my .rmf map and export to .map when I want to compile without disrupting anything. It also has an option that allows me to export visible objects only, which is handy for debugging the map.

Maybe I can support it in my batch file, though the problem is that the working map file name changes based on map and version (e.g. map1_01, map1_02...) and detecting that in the batch file is fiddly perhaps, though I've never looked into it.

Adding the feature to the editor would require an export option adding to the file menu and potentially an export location adding to the preferences (always export to the same place so that exporting is a single click away).

As you said though, it might be an obscure feature, and I'm not really sure how everyone else tends to build. Since building isn't handled from TrenchBroom, and probably shouldn't be anyway, it seems like a simple feature that would be handly for streamlining the build process, that's all.

Anyway, if you think some kind of export feature would be ok but don't want to spend time implementing it, I could try perhaps? Currently I'm just getting the project set up. It might be worth getting a code::blocks project set up for windows for those who don't have VS and want to fiddle with the code. I had to install 2012 to test a friend's game, but the install process is insane and it eats up 13gb of disk space. I'm going to look into that if there isn't one already. 
Also 
I've been calling this editor Trenchboom since I first saw it... 
Thing Is 
"Export" implies a different map file format, which this is not. Maybe a "Save copy..." menu item could be added to the file menu though.

Regarding Code::Blocks, yeah, that would be cool. Not sure how easy it will be to set up the dependencies (wxWidgets mostly), though. 
I Expect That Would Definitely Help :-) 
Seems quantal only has packages of wxwidgets 2.8, I presume 2.9 is a hard requirement? Some dude has a PPA with 2.9 in:

https://launchpad.net/~sven-eckelmann/+archive/ppa-wxwidgets2.9

Does that look new enough? 
Than 
That's why I suggested a kind of on/off system, searching by entity fields - it wouldn't invalidate the .map format.

Haven't thought through the ramifcations properly though, so no idea how difficult it would be to code. 
CodeBlocks Rules 
seems that code::blocks can import the sln file without any problems. I have to get wxwidgets properly installed before I can compile, but this is a good start. Once I get it compiling I'll post a little set up guide for anyone else that wants to look at the code and fiddle with it. 
Mwh 
Yes, 2.9 is a hard requirement because I use components which are not present in 2.8. I wanted to try these:

http://www.codelite.org/LiteEditor/WxWidgets29Binaries#toc1

I have no idea how up to date they are, though. I'll try the ones you found as well. 
Than 
Look at Windows/Build.txt for exact instructions on which files to get for wxWidgets and where to put them. 
Well, It Built (following Linux/Build.txt) 
After I clicked build twice? I got some error about SIZEOF_LONG the first time... now I disappear for a month :) 
Hmm 
It should build without warnings, much less errors. 
Local Rotation? 
I would be fine with it being once a session. Or maybe add another file that sits external from the map format for this type of addition? That way you don't need to break the map format but can store info in an accompanying file. It would be lovely stuff.

Either way still cant say enough how much I love this editor. Rocks my socks off! 
Skiffy 
I have added a feature request for session-wise local coordinate systems, but I won't make them persistent. That would add too many new problems. 
32/64 Bit? 
This code in Include/freetype/config/ftconfig.h:

#if defined SIZEOF_LONG
#undef SIZEOF_LONG
#endif
#define SIZEOF_LONG 4

looks a bit suspicious on my 64 bit system :) 
ARGH! 
fucking wxwidgets!

This again! I can't figure out how to get wxWidgets to work with code blocks. It's such a horrible fucking nightmare to get it working correctly. 
I Have To Go To Bed But... 
still no luck. I got rid of the wxwidgets simply by copying setup.h from the wxwidgets lib/gcc/msw/wx folder to the include/wx folder, but now I am getting an error saying va_list has not been declared (String.h 97)

No idea what I'm doing wrong, but this is the kind of thing that always puts me off doing c++ programming. Environment setup is fucking shit and makes me very annoyed :/ 
Than 
Let us schedule a Skype meeting so that we can sort this out. 
How To Run On Tablet? 
More random, non-rtf, feature ideas:
- display the size of the selected texture in the tex window
- always show the current grid size somewhere (as a number)
- specific filter option for skills + deathmatch (may be something for the fgd to allow similar filters with different games)
- possibly status bar?
- minigame to pass the compiling time (tetris) 
Pre-placed Brush @ 0,0,0 On New Map? 
Another idea I'm throwing out there. What if upon starting a new map, there is always a single 4x4x4 brush at 0,0,0? This might prevent some disorientation when placing your first brush since there's already one there for reference.

Excuse me if this had already been suggested, kinda skimmed through the recent posts. 
 
Maybe even provide a whole little textured room with a light source (like Quark ;) ;) ). Then one has a way to test the compiling pipeline easily. 
Negke 
- A tablet version is a very interesting idea that I have thought about a lot, but I decided it's not within my means for the time being.
- Texture size, grid size, specific filter options for skills + DM; noted.
- Status bar is a no, but I will add something similar (but better).
- Minigame, cool idea actually. ;-)

Quakis, excellent idea! 
Quakis 
I like that idea so much that it's going to be in 1.0.5. 
 
Tablet version - every time I pick up my iPad I think, "Man, it'd be neat if TrenchBroom worked on this thing". :P 
Tablets 
I can imagine two use cases for a tablet.

First, of course, as a standalone editing tool. It would surely be cool to be able to directly touch and manipulate the objects in the map. There is only one problem with it: Your fat fingers. Yes, yours. Because they obstruct your view of what you're actually doing. One idea to overcome this would be to automatically move / rotate the camera when you touch something so that it becomes visible again, yet reacts to your gestures.

Second, it would be cool as an additional input device for TrenchBroom on a desktop PC, because I guess somethings are still easier to do with a pointing device that's not your fat finger, and somethings are much more intuitive to do with the fingers (rotation!). 
 
Oh yeah, there are a ton of interface challenges with it ... I just think it would be neat. :P 
Usability. My Story About Quest Level Editor. 
I've not tried TrenchBroom yet, so I don't know. But, I would like to say:

I used the Quest level editor for many years, instead of QERadiant and GTKRadiant. Why? Because I was able to make a map 10x faster, using Quest's controls.

I take an interest in TrenchBroom because of the single 3D view, because that is how I did it in Quest.

In Quest, I always fullscreen one of the views, and I would use the keys to navigate, and a key to switch from 3d to grid view. The key for switching to grid view was very powerful for me, because I often used the grid to line things up better and visually measure stuff better.

The view in Quest was restricted to 90-degree angles only. I loved this. You could also turn off restrictive view and then rotate the camera to any angle you wish. But, I was always in restrictive view mode, 90-degree camera angles only.

To move around, I used "A" and "Z" which is Zoom In and Zoom Out in grid view, or Forward and Backward in 3d view. The arrow keys "UP" and "DOWN" were for Panning up and down in grid view, and flying up or down in 3d view. Same goes for the "LEFT" and "RIGHT" arrow keys.

The keys to turn the camera 90-degrees to any direction, my favourite keys and these were critical to my 10x speed of mapping, were the key combinations of "ALT+LEFT_ARROW" to rotate camera 90-degrees to left. Same goes for any "ALT+{ARROW_KEY}" combination to rotate the camera 90-degrees towards that direction arrow key you pressed. Same goes in grid view, the view would rotate as well.

I'd like to keep this in mind, and see what you can do about having your editor provide the same type of usability controls as what I've described.

Thanks! 
Deqer 
I'm sorry if this will sound harsh, but the last thing I want to do with TrenchBroom is make it work like another editor that clearly follows a different UI approach.

I suggest that you try TrenchBroom and forget about how Quest works. Use it with an open mind. If it doesn't work for you, then there are plenty other editors out there. 
Your Quick Response. 
So, you didn't think about what I said.

You didn't even give it a thought--nevermind the particular keys being used--but no thought of having an option to restrict the view to 90-degree angles-only and using key combinations to rotate the camera 90-degrees to any direction, and keys to move and pan around at high speeds.

Keys, keys, keys.

Instead, you closed your mind, and immediately responded with a generic and vague "im not changing my editor." liner. Okay. 
 
The big difference with quark vs (afaik) all other editors is that there is a tree view of the entire map where you see individual entities and brushes as nodes in the tree, grouped by brush entities or user made group folders.

qED had this too. it was otherwise a pretty lousy editor but that part was nice; you could move brushes between entities or groups by dragging the nodes around, and you could name the groups too (or the brushes, if you were an OCD masochist with time to burn)

lack of proper group support puts me off diving into TB just yet but pleased to see plans are in place for that. that said i'm eager to try out some of the terrain construction demonstrated above :) 
Deqer 
The controls will be fully customisible in newer versions. But if you want an editor exactly like Quest then why not use Quest? Simple really.
Also, you haven't used the editor by your own admission so why do you think you could improve something you haven't yet tried?

SleepwalkR, wouldn't a 4x4x4 square be a little small? How about a room that is 256x256x128? 
 
SleepwalkR, wouldn't a 4x4x4 square be a little small? How about a room that is 256x256x128?

or just a customisable start template? 
The Start Brush 
is 64x64x16. That's enough to give the user orientation and something to interact with.

rj, I'm not sure what good a customizable template would do. Also, the tree view is on the todo list. 
Deqer 
If you read this thread then you would know that I give a lot of ideas a lot of thought if they make sense in the context of this editor. If they don't, then I dismiss them or modify them until they do.

Your suggestions don't work well with the workflow of TrenchBroom, which is why I dismissed them. I have a very specific vision for TrenchBroom. If that works for you, then fine, and if it doesn't, then also fine because there are many other editors out there for you to choose from. 
 
Also, the tree view is on the todo list.

i did notice :) was just briefly reminiscing

and yeah it was a bit of a retarded suggestion on hindsight. also the last one i make until i try the damn thing... 
No "Intel HD Graphics" 3000 Videocard Support? 
I know it's not a typical gaming video card, but I'm able to playing modern games on it, including TF2--which uses quake engine as well.

So, I must wonder, why TrenchBroom crashes when I press "V" for vertex editing mode, and shows an error like this: http://pastebin.com/UCNGUYMB - mainly the last 10 lines of that paste; so, lines 94 to 103.

"ERROR: 22:1: '' : extension 'GL_EXT_gpu_shader4' is not supported"

What is that? Sounds like it is video card related. But, just seems odd to me that my video card cannot display, but my video card can play games just fine.

The crash always happens when I press "V" on a selected brush. 
Deqer 
Go to the preferences and set OpenGL instancing to "Force off". 
Video Of Me Using TrenchBroom 
This video shows me using TrenchBroom for the first time, and my initial reactions to anything I see or encounter. My first impressions.

I also do a bit of editing with brushes, and textures in this video.

Perhaps someone might find this interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1fEQXDPnpo

Title: "First time, Part 1: Install, Setup, and Experiment | TrenchBroom" 
Texture Mapping Tools 
Hello again, just wandered in here again after a late night of mad brush work inside Trenchbroom. I noticed one thing when working with a large collection of brushes forming a single surface. It can become tricky to line up textures especially when dealing with so many brushes.

So what I was wondering is if there are any plans to add some basic texture projection options? Like selecting a bunch of faces over a series of brushes and then unifying their mapping with planer projection based on an average normal?

Would it also be possible to add the ability to adjust mapping of faces with a gizmo when you have a surface selected instead of using the offset and rotation settings? That would keep you in the viewport without having to get lost in menus. It could be just like the rotate or vertex edit modes but for texture adjusting. Select a surface and then start rotating and scaling the texture right there instead of juggling numbers. This and the basic projection options would be kick ass for helping manage texture alignments for more complex constructions like terrain.

Cheers and again thanks for this epic editing software. I totally lost track of time last night... 
Skiffy 
I'm not sure what you mean by your first suggestion. You cannot change the way textures are projected in Quake.

Texture manip. with the mouse is on the todo list. 
Deqer 
Thanks for the video, I will watch it later. 
Tools To Help With Texture Mapping 
Regarding texture project I am talking about tools in your editor to help manipulate the already build in data that controls the Uv coordinates that is all. No new engine additions for quake itself just handy tools to mass adjust and sync texture orientations and scale with each other. Does that make more sense? 
Hmm 
But you can select multiple faces and adjust the texture parameters in the face inspector already. I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean exactly. 
Deqer 
Some notes:

- Font rendering is broken on your system. This will be fixed in a future version. This has happened to other people as well.
- Shift+Left Drag on Edge and Face handles doesn't work so well. It does not snap the individual vertices of the edge or face to the grid. In these cases, you should move the individual vertices.
- To make a vertex align with another vertex (maybe of another brush), select both brushes, double click the vertex to be aligned and drag it onto the other vertex.
- Generally it is preferable to have vertices on the grid (maybe on a larger grid size than 1). Makes lots of things easier.
- Vertices need laser beams, too. That should make it easer to line them up. 
Skiffy 
Regarding across multiple faces (with the same texture) what I normally do is select the first texture face and make my adjustments and then alt+click the other faces so the settings are carried over. 
 
Did I really say 4x4x4? I meant 64x64x64! :p Nice to see that feature will be added though! 
Deqer 
I really struggled to watch the video once you started editing stuff in 1x1 grid mode... I don't even like going down to 8x8 unless I really need to, it's just way too much hassle to get things done correctly/accurately. 
 
font-family: Helvetica; will fallback to the default font if the user does not have Helvetica (such as your beloved Linux users). Change it to font-family: Helvetica, Arial, DejaVu sans, sans-serif; or something like that. Right now I get an ugly serif font. 
Talking About The Website Of Course 
 
Spirit 
Will do, thanks! 
I Just Tried To Ctrl+D 
in windows to duplicate a folder... I'm going outside for some fresh air. 
Hello Old Friends 
Hey guys, been a while :-)
(I'm this guy: http://www.rudolfkremers.com/q/quake.html)

Kristian! Ach mein GOTT! This editor loooks amazing.I may have to give that a spin when I find some time. (Admittedly this will take a while) 
Get Crackin Rudolf ;-) 
Thanks! 
I Remember... 
"Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?"... Good map back in the day. :) 
Gracias 
I have a sequel 99% finished

But it has been lying dormant on my harddisk for about ten years or more.. 
Another Video. 
Thanks for your response.

Here is another video, Part 2 of my first time, using the clipping/cutting/slicing tool.

This video is not as long. Only half long as previous one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgPq3-lEdGc

Title: "TrenchBroom: First time, Part 2: Brush Cut/Clip/Slice, Experimenting."

I have a part 3 video that is uploading right now, showing how I compile the map. In case anyone finds that interesting. 
Compiling The Map 
Part 3 video, "Compiling the Map"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEaJLtBv-4g

Title: "TrenchBroom: First time, Part 3: Compiling the Map"

I have another video uploading now, showing me creating a one-room map from scratch with items, lighting, spawnpoints, and an exit. 
 
fyi: You are supposed to be able to type directly into the map textbox like you did originally, but it's bugged and requires you to use that [...] button. Sorry for the confusion. 
Making A Map 
New video: "Making a Map"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRVE3ygsM9Q

with items, lighting, spawnpoints, and an exit. 
A Great Idea But... 
Being limited to just 3D mode makes it a chore to edit the maps. 2D grid views exist in other editors for a reason. I think it is silly to talk about the "NO 2D grid view" as if it is a great feature. I personally love the fact that you are making a new editor for Quake, but I personally think this design decision was a mistake. There are just so many things that that much easier to do in a 2D grid view and can be done much faster as well. I really suggest putting that kind of a feature into the game. 
Grid View Feature. 
I agree, hakkarin. A grid view switch would be nice.

I used the "F" hotkey a lot, in Quest editor. Because the "F" key would switch to flat grid view, and/or switch back.

The grid view made many things a lot easier and quicker to do.

Easy for author of TrenchBroom to do? Perhaps. The grid view would just be the same as the 3d view, but be FLAT. Basically just rotate/snap camera to a 90-degree angle for a "forward view" and then display flat frame/layer of the 3d view as a 2d view--and you still have same functionality as before. 
 
There is something to be said for an orthogonal projection, maybe... 
Necros 
What map textbox is bugged? 
Textbox Bug 
He's referring to the video "Compiling a Map", where I used a 3rd-party tool for compiling and in that tool there is a way to select your *.map but it also provides a textfield. Most people would click the "..." button, but I tried to type the path directly into the textfield, but the path didn't save--didn't select the map file. 
I Haven't Tried (yet?) 
but goddammit, fucking awesome work! 
Spiral Staircase 
TrenchBroom: Create a Spiral Staircase - Experiment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p29wbvatKkY

TrenchBroom: Create/Import Spiral Staircase into TrenchBroom from another Editor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpGsBb6EPZQ 
 
deqer

I love that you're making videos for the editor but, man ... 25 minutes for a spiral staircase? A little editing/planning would go a long way. 
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
Spirit 
That's the tutorial I used to make curves in my maps. :D

I don't know if the curved pipe tutorial works in TB though, haven't tried it yet. :P 
 
The concepts will work but you can't create cylinders yet so you can't follow it directly. You can memorize the ratios and proportions and use the clipping tool to get the same results though. 
My Videos Aren't Official Tutorials. 
Willem, my videos aren't official tutorial videos. I just "wing it" as I go.

Most of my videos are titled to indicate that as well, with titles like "First time." and "Experiment."

As you can see in my second staircase video, I used my old editor to create a perfect spiral staircase in just a few minutes, by using circle brushes. 
 
I know they aren't official. Just passing along some critique for you. I assume you'd like people to watch these since you're taking the time to upload them ... and 25 minutes is a large chunk of time for a spiral staircase video. That's all! 
Curved Pipe Tutorial 
Spirit: "http://www.quaketerminus.com/hosted/happymaps/curv_tut.htm"

Nah.

That tutorial looks stupid. Thanks though. 
Willem, I Agree. 
I agree, Willem. I'm making a better video now; and it will only be 3 minutes long this time. :) 
 
Nice! 
Willem, I Updated The Description Of That Long Staircase Video 
Willem, I updated the description of that long staircase video to make it clear that it's not a solution.

New description is: "NOTE: I don't actually succeed in creating the spiral staircase in this video. However, I show a technique for creating a perfect circle shape. So, then you use the circle shape as a reference and trace over it with your new brushes for stairs and walls. " 
Wait 
25 minutes and we don't even get the money shot? 
Using Quest To Create Spiral Stairs In 5 Minutes. Import Into TB. 
Alright Willem, he's a 5min version.

Note, that I don't actually use TrenchBroom to create the spiral stairs. I just show how I would do it in another editor, and then import it into TrenchBroom.

"TrenchBroom: Create/Import Spiral Stairs in 5 minutes."
http://youtu.be/LYkqpwxRQjY 
Incoming Update To TrenchBroom, Key Bindings. 
"Key bindings" feature was just pushed to their repository, an hour ago.

https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/compare/master...issue237_customization#L6R330

You can see the list of all the features that will be configurable through the new Preferences->Keybinds window/frame they've recently added as well.

You can see they uploaded new icon graphics for it as well. Icon/picture of a keyboard.

---

And of course, having "key bindings" feature also allows us to define keys for functions that don't have keys bound by default. For example, "Snap all vertices" has no key bound by default in the current version of TrenchBroom, but with new version of TB I could now set a key to this, such as CTRL+N, and use it! 
Make Selection Planar Command 
Would a command that makes a selection (collection of 2 or more vertices, 1 or more edges or 1 or more faces) planar on X, Y, Z be useful to anyone besides me?

Note that this brings up the problem of axis selection again... 
Progress... 
Although I haven't bothered to try recompiling TrenchBroom under windows, I went back to the Linux version, and followed the steps listed in build.txt.

I discovered that wx/setup.h was not found because of an incorrect path in the build options->compiler settings->other options panel where the wxWidgets directories are set.
-I$(#WXWIN)/build-debug/lib/wx/include/gtk2-unicode-static-2.9
does not exist after I make wxWidgets, but I instead had gtk 3, so I changed it to
-I$(#WXWIN)/build-debug/lib/wx/include/gtk3-unicode-static-2.9
This started to compile fine, but when it tried to link wxWidgets I got the following error:
"Linking executable: bin/Debug/TrenchBroom
g++: error: /home/andy/Programming/wxWidgets-2.9.4/build-debug/lib/libwx_gtk2u_gl-2.9.a: No such file or directory
g++: error: /home/andy/Programming/wxWidgets-2.9.4/build-debug/lib/libwx_gtk2u_adv-2.9.a: No such file or directory
g++: error: /home/andy/Programming/wxWidgets-2.9.4/build-debug/lib/libwx_gtk2u_core-2.9.a: No such file or directory
Process terminated with status 1 (6 minutes, 25 seconds)"

These libraries are specified in the linker settings tab under other linker options. Changing instances of gtk2 to gtk3 fixes this, but then I get this error:
"ld||cannot find -lgtk-x11-2.0|
ld||cannot find -lgdk-x11-2.0|
||=== Build finished: 2 errors, 0 warnings ===|"

Any idea how to fix this mess anyone? Should I revert all the gtk3 instances to gtk2 and recompile wxWidgets to use gtk2? If so, does anyone know what options I need to use? I will have a look now, but I don't think I'm not most knowledgeable person about this kind of thing, so would appreciate help. 
Hmm... 
seems to be the --with-gtk=2 compiler option on configure. Seems I also needed to install libgtk2.0-dev.

I'll try rebuilding wxWidgets with gtk 2 and see what happens. 
Hexen II Support Thirded 
What kind of information do you need to support another Quake-engine game, such as Hexen II? Ozkan Sezer and myself might be of some help. I'm on gmail. 
FINALLY 
managed to compile and successfully run TrenchBroom under Mint Linux. Turns out you NEED to have libgtk2.0-dev installed for it to work, though wxWidgets compiles fine if you have another version. I had 3.0 already installed and assumed it would be fine, but it wasn't. I ended up compiling wxWidgets with the following settings:
release: configure --disable-shared --with-openlgl --with-gtk=2
debug: configure --enable-debug --disable-shared --with-opengl -with-gtk=2
and then everything just worked fine.

The editor runs fine, though there are a couple of problems I've noticed.
1. text does not render properly in the 3d view, texture view or entity view. When in the texture view, applying a texture causes the names to be refreshed and they render correctly, but soon revert to being mostly not rendered.
2. This is probably just a linux mint problem, but holding alt and dragging moves the window. There might be a way to disable this in mint. 
Than 
Thanks for the info, I'll add the --with-gtk=2 option to the configure options. GTK versions are not compatible with each other, sadly. I'll put more emphasis on the fact that you need 2 and cannot use 3.

1. The text problem also happens on some Windows systems. I have no idea what the cause is, and I'm going to replace the current font rendering with texture fonts anyway. Maybe I'll find a way to fix the current font systems in the meantime.

2. You have to disable this behavior for your Windows manager. I don't know how to do it in Mint though. 
More 
I couldn't compile the release build because there were a bunch of warnings about Source/Model/BrushGeometry.cpp using uninitialized variables. Explicitly initializing them to 0 fixes this problem. This never happened in the debug build, so perhaps it could simply be gotten around by supressing the warning/error that arises from the uninitialized variables? However, they do appear to be used uninitialized (buffer >> vertexCount etc.) so maybe it's safer to just initialize?

I had a look for how to disable the alt+drag = move window behaviour in Mint. This was the best I could find:
http://ubuntuguide.net/disable-alt-click-moving-windows-ubuntu-12-04
It hasn't worked for me in Mint yet, but perhaps I just need to restart.

Also, I'm having a problem selecting my Quake directory. I think it's probably a wxWidgets or Mint/Mate problem, because I had a similar issue when trying to set up wxWidgets in Code::Blocks (also a wxWidgets app), but for some reason it won't select any folder deeper than user/home/. My Quake dir is /andy/home/Games/Quake, but it just gives me /andy/home/ when I select the Quake folder. No idea why it's happening, but I had the same problem in code::blocks. I want to know the preference storage location so I can manually edit it to work around the problem for now. 
Hexen 2 Support 
Hey Shanjaq,

Since Hexen2 uses the Quake engine, I believe it's already possible to make Hexen2 maps in TrenchBroom.

I believe it just comes down to a .def (or .fgd) file for the entities; And TrenchBroom allows you to define a .def file, or .fgd file.

hexen2.def download: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0piElswxauhWTVaeDFqUHUtTTA/edit

I copied the Hexen2 .def file to TrenchBroom/Defs/ folder, and I selected it in TrenchBroom, but TrenchBroom could not parse it correctly.

I believe necros made a converter to convert the .def file to a .fgd file. But the download links there are broken. You can see the .def converter here: http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60622 
Than 
The warnings are fixed now. I'll look into the directory issues. 
Thanks 
For anyone who is trying to use TrenchBroom in Linux Mint, I also found out how to disable alt+drag moves window (using Mate... not sure about Cinnamon):

At the terminal, run mateconf-editor
In the configuration Editor window that appears, enter apps->marco-general and change the setting for mouse-button-modifier to "<Super>" to use the super key (probably the windows key) or "none" to disable it altogether. The default is <Alt>, but this is fucking stupid, since lots of applications use alt. 
Than 
Regarding the garbled text, could you please scroll the console all the way up and paste the first ten lines where it says whether OpenGL instancing is enabled or not? 
It's Disabled... 
enderer info: Mesa DRI Intel(R) 965GM x86/MMX/SSE2 version 2.1 Mesa 9.0.2 from Intel Open Source Technology Center
Depth buffer bits: 0 < WTF!?
Multisampling disabled
OpenGL instancing disabled

I set it to be forced off because otherwise vertex mode crashes the editor.

Also, I didn't notice until I tried loading some more complex maps, but the 3d view is extremely buggy. I'm getting missing surfaces all over the place, and I think some option I tweaked made all the normal flipped or something weird like that. The depth buffer or render order also seems to be borked. It's a mess on my laptop at least. I want to try it on my Ubuntu machine that has a sensible nvidia card and see if I experience problems there. I notice you have a screenshot on the TrenchBroom site taken in Linux that looks perfectly fine, so I'm guessing it might be an issue with my lame graphics chip.

Oh, a couple of other things:
1. If I click on the window title before trying to use a menu for the first time, the menu appears briefly, then disappears and none of the menus are useable. Could it be a wx or GTK problem?
2. When I quit TrenchBroom, sometimes I get an assert fail "../src/common/glcmn.cpp(60): assert "IsShownOnScreen()" failed in SetCurrent(): can't make hidden GL canvas current"
ASSERT INFO:
../src/common/glcmn.cpp(60): assert "IsShownOnScreen()" failed in SetCurrent(): can't make hidden GL canvas current

BACKTRACE:
[1] g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__VOID
[2] g_closure_invoke
[3] g_signal_emit_valist
[4] g_signal_emit
[5] gtk_widget_map
[6] gtk_container_forall
[7] g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__VOIDv
[8] g_signal_emit_valist
[9] g_signal_emit
[10] gtk_widget_map
[11] gtk_container_forall
[12] g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__VOIDv
[13] g_signal_emit_valist
[14] g_signal_emit
[15] gtk_widget_map
[16] gtk_widget_set_child_visible
[17] g_closure_invoke
[18] g_signal_emit_valist
[19] g_signal_emit
[20] g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__OBJECTv
[21] g_signal_emit_valist
[22] g_signal_emit
[23] gtk_container_remove
[24] g_main_context_dispatch
[25] g_main_loop_run
[26] gtk_main

No idea what's going on there.

This is the graphics chip I seem to have:
VGA compatible controller : Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller (primary) (rev 0c) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
Display controller : Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller (secondary) (rev 0c) 
I Wrote A Little Guide For Running On Linux 
http://andyp123.blogspot.jp/2013/03/running-trenchbroom-quake-editor-on.html

There are possibly some things I missed, and it's basically just an expanded version of Linux/Build.txt, but maybe it's of use to someone. If there are any problems with it, please let me know so that I can fix it. 
Than 
You must use the master branch for the Linux version, it has a lot of fixes. The 1.0.5 branch is pretty much broken on Linux. 
Ugh 
ok, so there is no depth buffer it seems. The wireframe of all brushes is always visible - even when there are other brushes obscuring it, unlike in the windows version, and if I do a simple test with three brushes, it's obvious there is no depth culling. This is probably down to my shitty video card, the drivers or some combination of the two, and I don't expect you to fix it since TrenchBroom is just a personal project and fixing shit like that for one guy running on a Linux notebook from 2007/2008 is not of the upmost importance. Still, if you have any idea what the cause might be, it would be good to know. 
SleepwalkR 
ok, I'll try that and see if it works. 
No Depth Buffer 
That's odd, but it could very well be a bug in how I am detecting the available pixel formats on Linux. I'll look into this, so keep that laptop around ;-) 
Using Master 
I am pulling direct from the master now and there are no differences with regard to bugginess on my machine.

I'm kind of done with this for today, but tomorrow or perhaps Tuesday I'll try and get it running on my Ubuntu machine and also use my experience from today to get it building with Code:: Blocks on Windows (I hope).

Ideally I'd love to have it running flawlessly on Linux, but I'll be happy to get the Windows version building so I can try adding new features. 
Than 
The menu issues are still there on the master branch? 
Yeah :( 
At least on Linux Mint Mate. Not sure if it's just an issue related to my specific setup.

Load TrenchBroom
Click on any menu (the file menu for instance)

The menu should appear then quickly disappear. The entire GUI is completely unresponsive after that and I have to kill the process to get rid of it :/ 
Fixed Hexen2.def 
I fixed the errors with the hexen2.def file I had.

Fixed hexen2.def
Download: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0piElswxauhbnZJQ2Q2WGxHUDg/edit

Errors/fixes were:
1) Removed first 5 lines(a custom comment).
2) Search & Replace all " / " with "/"
3) Search & Replace all lines that tail: ") ?", and replace that tail with ")"

These fixes were based off the error messages I received in the console log of TrenchBroom. Thanks to the log messages, I was able to fix these manually myself.

It loads fine, and I get hexen2 entities now.

Models:
However, it's not loading the models. I tried renaming my hexen2 /data1/ folder to /id1/, because it has same pak files, and the pak files have same file structure. But, I couldn't get this to work.

Textures:
I could not get it working. TrenchBroom won't load the hexen2tx.wad file I downloaded from:
http://www.realm667.com/index.php/texture-stock-mainmenu-152/1090-hexen-ii-texture-pack?catid=56%3Aheretic--hexen-style

---

Perhaps these issues are side-effects from the fact that the hexen2 is a custom quake1 engine. 
Alright, I'm Done With TrenchBroom For Now. 
Alright, I'm done with TrenchBroom for now.

I can't use it effectively unless I have grid information. Bit I have no grid information--all the opengl text is garbled--and I have no grid view or grid anything to look at for measurements.

I understand the editor is to be seamless flow for a mapper, but I prefer to be accurate and I always work with grid information and grid numbers, and a flat grid view.

Thanks, 
Hexen 2 Model Loading Error 
Hello deqer,

I suspect that it's not loading the models since they have a customized MDL format for Hexen 2. For each games meshes to show up Trenchbroom would need to have a custom loader for the various MDL, MD2, MD3 and so on.

Cheers 
This Editor Looks Awesome! 
Really nice! It's like Blender but with brushes...hmmm...hopefully there will be ample hotkey customization.

This looks and feels incredible! Fluid views, oldstyle graphics(not gl blurred! :) ), Brush splitting!! Amazing. Simply amazing.

However, I have noticed one minor issue. Texture application takes a while...about 2-3 to do any change to the texture. I have Nvidia driver 306.97, though I haven't noticed any issues with it, though perhaps it has something to do with having multiple monitors. It does slow down my texturing process a lot.

Anyways its great so far! Keep it up! 
Uh Oh... 
Grid snap does't snap to the global grid! It's local. Instead of moving a face to the next gridline it just moves it the current grid distance. For example, if a face whose global X-value is 32 is moved 2 units to 30, then when switching back to any other grid size like, say, 16 then the X-value would go from 30 to 14, not 30 to 16 which is how other editors work. Is there a setting for this? 
Slow Texture Application 
I disabled and then reenabled one of my monitors and it fixed the slow texturing problem. Wierd. Just FYI. 
Qmaster 
grid snapping to offsets is intentional. Force a vertex to snap to grid by holding shift while you move a vertex.
Not forcing the snap lets you do more such as work at large grid sizes without loosing small details. 
Great Editor 
It is a spectacular editor though. The best feature is the texture rendering in 3d view, and texture management in general. I also like the grid lines on the brushes, and the extending helper grid lines when selecting a brush.

I will use 3d view a lot. But, I also use flat grid view just as much. Please provide grid view or something equivalent. 
World Center And Limits? 
Hello SleepwalkR,

Do you think its possible to add a world center and limits info to the 3d viewport? It would be most helpful in figuring out the center and maximum boundaries of the level. Some form of coordinate system that has a 3d grid which fades out after a set distance which can be turned on and off? That way folks that like a grid or none at all will live happy ever after. For me its good to get my bearings.

Otherwise loving this. 
How Do I... 
add the name of the level and things in TrenchBroom? 
 
it took me until now recognise the origin of your nick, I should read more!

add a "name" field to the worldspawn. 
Skiffy 
Showing where the center is and where the world ends has been requested by others. I'm still thinking about how to do it without cluttering the view port. Maybe it can be combined with a way to give people more orientation and a better idea of the relative position of objects. 
Working On Ubuntu 12.10 Fine 
Compiled on my main pc running Ubuntu 12.10. Had some minor troubles during compilation, but fixed and it runs just fine as far as I can tell (not tested extensively yet, however).

Everything is working fine, but wxWidgets setup.h seems to redefine SIZEOF_LONG as 8, where it has already been defined in freetype. Commented out the highlighted line and it compiled without issues.

The z-buffer is working fine:
Renderer info: GeForce GTX 560 Ti/PCIe/SSE2 version 4.2.0 NVIDIA 304.51 from NVIDIA Corporation
Depth buffer bits: 24
Multisampling disabled
OpenGL instancing enabled 
Sleepy 
It might be good to have some goto brush and/or world position tools in there to help find and eliminate problems. I guess that can easily be tied into the map explorer when you are doing that? 
Than 
Cool. Still annoying that it doesn't work correctly on Mint though. Which edition / desktop are you using on your Mint machine?

I'm aware of the SIZEOF_LONG issue, I have to do some include trickery to get around it. It's on my todo list.

Goto brush is on the todo list also ;-). Necros keeps asking for it. 
Suggestion 
This editor really needs a cut tool. Lets say I want to remove a small area in a wall that is shaped like a box. It would be nice if you could put a brush into that area and then have the area occupied by the brush removed. 
CSG Subtract 
I plan to add some CSG operations (most importantly CSG merge), but CSG subtract (or "cut" as you call it) is not among those. The reason is that it is very hard to make the subtract operation create "optimal" brushwork. Here, optimal means brushwork that creates a minimal amount of plane cuts when run through QBSP.

AFAIK, the general consensus is to stay away from CSG subtract operations because of this. And that's why I'm not going to add it to TrenchBroom. 
Lol 
What's with that video - 'How to make a spiral staircase with Trenchbroom'. Basically - 'Use Quest'? Seems a little counter-intuitive. 
So Not Wanting To Re-read 450 Posts - SleepwalkR 
Is this a known issue?

Loading file C:\Quake\Id1\maps\endeavor.map
Loading unsupported map Valve 220 map format
Malformed map file: expected token of type integer number, or decimal number, but found string at line 1198, column 77
Loaded map file in 0.020000 seconds
Loading entity definition file C:\trenchbroom\Resources\Defs\Quake.fgd

.... aaaand the map doesn't seem to show at all.

So are any Valve220 maps a no-no? 
So Not Wanting To Re-read 450 Posts - SleepwalkR 
Is this a known issue?

Loading file C:\Quake\Id1\maps\endeavor.map
Loading unsupported map Valve 220 map format
Malformed map file: expected token of type integer number, or decimal number, but found string at line 1198, column 77
Loaded map file in 0.020000 seconds
Loading entity definition file C:\trenchbroom\Resources\Defs\Quake.fgd

.... aaaand the map doesn't seem to show at all.

So are any Valve220 maps a no-no? 
Possibly 
I haven't tested them extensively. And even if they do load, TrenchBroom can't handle the new texture projection stuff (yet). If you send me the file, I can take a look and fix any problems with the parser, but as I said - you'll have garbled textures all over the place.

Best if you make a bug report and post the map (or the offending portion incl. containing entities) file there: http://github.com/kduske/trenchbroom/issues 
That Said 
Proper support for 220 maps with freely configurable texture axes are on the todo list for 1.2 or 1.3. 
Sweet! 
Well I'll post that .map file anyway (It's that Catatonic Fits of Despair source, but I got the same bug with a bunch of different maps)... 
Quick Question 
I submitted an issue about setting the quake path (possibly you already added it as I mentioned it here already... I forgot about that), but in the meantime, is there some way to force set it? I could probably hard code it, but surely there is some config file somewhere I can open in a text editor and set the path? Where is it on Linux? 
Yeah, Just Add A Few Examples 
And I'll fix the parser for 1.0.5. 
Also, Another Question For Linux Users.. 
Anyone got multisampling working? Do you have anti-aliased lines etc? My Trenchbroom render window looks a bit ass. I'm using an GeForce 560 with the closed source drivers.

Also, my depth buffer is only set at 24bits, which could be the cause of the lines looking a bit thin and aliased. 
Than 
Yes, there is. Go to your home directory and look at the file .TrenchBroom - this is where the preferences are stored on Linux.

Try to set the Quake path to something that the file dialog is fine with so that it is actually stored in the prefs. The edit the file (I think it's an ini file) to reflect the correct path. 
Aliasing 
The editor tries to autodetect multisampling, but I'm sure it doesn't work too well on Linux (I was using a virtual machine when I wrote that). If you like, you can look at the file LinuxCapabilities.cpp (or .h) and maybe you can figure out a way to detect and enable multisampling on Linux.

I'll add it to my list of problems with the linux version, in any case. 
Oh Yeah - The Texture Thing 
I'm aware that the 220 textures are loaded incorrectly in other editors (if the maps load at all), but it would still be nice to be able to load just the brushes. :) 
Ricky 
As I said, if you create a bug report and add some examples, I'll fix it. 
Settings 
yep, that did the trick. Thanks. 
 
add the name of the level and things in TrenchBroom?

add a 'message' key into worldspawn to make a title appear for your map. 
Well 
I made this:

https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/476

I mean I can't really give any more info than that at this time, because the map doesn't seem to load at all. But once we get past the first hurdle I can help give some structured info on different types of texture angle and how they appear in each editor, if that would help :) 
Thanks 
I'll look into it! 
Worldspawn Editing... 
I really have no idea how to add or find the worldspawn, in worldcraft you just change the level details in a menu but I can't find any menu for it in TB. 
 
Select a non-entity brush and see its Entity properties. 
OTP 
Thanks, although that is counter-intuitive. :P 
 
I plan to add some CSG operations (most importantly CSG merge), but CSG subtract (or "cut" as you call it) is not among those. The reason is that it is very hard to make the subtract operation create "optimal" brushwork. Here, optimal means brushwork that creates a minimal amount of plane cuts when run through QBSP.

AFAIK, the general consensus is to stay away from CSG subtract operations because of this. And that's why I'm not going to add it to TrenchBroom.


If it helps maybe you could experiment with what I did in ToeTag. I remember sorting the cutting planes by size and cutting with the biggest ones first. This did seem to result in the best/least set of cuts possible as it tended to do the large changes first and then the small ones only operated on the small brushes that were near the cutting brush.

Anyway, something to think about. Cutting holes in stuff is a staple feature that I would miss not having, long term. It's really just an extension of the clipping tool. 
 
Er, not the cutting planes but the cutting polygons, obviously. :) The planes would all be equal size. 
I Made A Mess... 
of my first Worldcraft test level a few months ago by liberally using the carve tool. It was a nice looking test map (that may evolve further) but I think discourage carve tools is a good idea. 
 
I won't get into a huge argument but I disagree. You can make the same mess with the clipping tool. Keeping users away from powerful tools because they might make a mess is a silly argument, IMO.

I'll walk away now. :) 
Willem 
Well, I thought that noone really used CSG subtract, but if I'm wrong I'm happy to add it. But I think you haven't understood what I meant about cutting the brushes "optimally". I want them to be cut so that they don't get extra vertices in the edges that they share with other brushes that are not affected by the cut. Because that would lead to the adjacent faces of those brushes to be cut up into more polygons, right?

This is easy to avoid in simple situations such as cutting a door frame into a brush, but it seems much harder when you do stuff like cut a brush (or several brushes) with a shape such as a sphere when the sphere. I'll have to think this through, but I'll add it to my todo list for when I work on CSG. 
I Agree... 
actually but I think the damage caused by carve can be much greater (imagine carving a cylinder shape out of another cylinder shape, ouch!), I do remember there being a guide for carving brushes properly without making a mess.

These are certainly lessons to learn but I think the carve tool can be a bit of a crutch, there's a lot to be said about making decent pre-fabs to work with that optimise well. 
+1 CSG Tools 
I use CSG Subtract all the time, it goes really well with CSG Merge. I am with Willem on this one, CSG Subtract is an extremely useful tool that can produce good results if used wisely. 
Okay 
It would be interesting to see some examples of how you guys use this and how you edit the resulting brushes so as to avoid the well known problems (additional face cuts etc.). I would be grateful if you could provide some screenshots (or videos). 
CSG Subtract Squares Only 
CSG Subtract works well only if you do it with square shapes. If you try subtracting anything more, such as a pentagon, or circle, then there is no way for the editor to know how to properly set up the brushes around the cut. It becomes a mess of brushes.

I would say CSG Subtract should be available, but only for square shapes. 
 
That's ridiculous. 
Depends 
If you can rotate the squares or not. 
The Problem Is 
how to mimick what the human does to mop up after a dumb CSG subtract operation. That's why I'd like to see what you guys do. 
It Takes About 5 Seconds 
to chop a brush up with perfectly optimal geometry if you want to effectively punch a square hole in it.

CSG subtract is not necessary in that situation at all. 
 
When I found it handy for was making buttons. I could build a button brush, embed it into the wall and subtract it. Now the button has a nice recess to move into. 
 
Although I will agree that Merge would get used a lot more often than Subtract so if one needs to be done first, Merge would be the choice. 
CSG Subtract A Circle 
With regard to what Qmaster said about the grid vertex snapping.

I believe the editor should have a preference for this.

I think it's similar to how I could do this in Quest.

In Quest, the config file has this option:
# ---------------
# snap_to_int <x>
# ---------------
#
# If set to 1, Quest will snap all vertices to integer values upon save. This
# should prevent vertex drifting. This is only used with the old map format.

snap_to_int 1

---

There are couple more settings in the config file that you might find interesting. See quest.cfg: http://pastebin.com/7CCDm8R6 
 
Kinn, why would someone want to use the slice tool 4 times to cut a square, when CSG Subtract can do it in 1 move. 
Deqer 
My point is that we don't need a stupid "csg subtract but only for square shapes" thing, when everyone can produce the equivalent geometry themselves in a few seconds without that feature?

Either make a proper csg subtract tool, or don't make it at all. 
CSG Merge 
Will be cool because the code can be used for stuff like this:

https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/276

That was rebb's idea, and it's absolutely great. 
CSG Subtract Example, Messy. 
SleepwalkR,

Here is video of me doing CSG Subtract and I show the problems, and explain what I would've preferred the result to be.

http://youtu.be/7P1wS5INeAw 
Yeah We Get It 
The problem is inventing the algorithm that produces optimal results when csg subtracting arbitrary brushes. 
CSG Merge 
Does look pretty cool, and more valuable than subtract. 
Ijed 
This is not merge exactly, but it works in a similar fasion. The idea is to select a couple vertices (either by selecting brushes or by selecting faces), then creating the convex hull of those vertices and creating a brush from that.

If you select a couple of brushes which form a convex shape to begin with, you have CSG merge. The other cases are shown in the images I linked above. 
I See Hollow 
Is mentioned on github as well - is this in/gonig to be? 
Right 
Not sure what that should be called though :) 
I Don't Care That You "get It"; I'm Still Going To Post It. Thx. 
Here's another video of CSG Subtract, doing arch window, and what I do to clean it up, and I explain what I would've preferred the result to be.

http://youtu.be/7-x47KvgL9U

Again, the problem is programming the logic, math, magic to be able to do CSG Subtract like this.

Honestly, CSG Subtract is too much magic for me to expect from a new editor anyways. I suppose you'd rather focus on more important things/features. 
Will Be 
Again, there are questions as to how the resulting brushes should be shaped. My current idea is to extrude the outer faces and chop them off at their formal position.

It's basically this feature applied to each face of the brush:

https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/418 
That Last Post 
is a response to ijeds question about CSG hollow. 
 
See, now hollow is something I've never seen a use for. Does that get a lot of play for some people? I know it's good for "my first room" tutorials ... :) 
Willem 
Apparently some people use it. I'm not a fan of any of the CSG operations, but if I'm going to support one, I guess I should support the others as well, esp. as hollow is quite simple compared to subtract. 
Hollow 
I use it a lot for speedmapping / testmapping and sometimes for blocking out.

When it's time to put an area together properly I usually delete the resulting brushes. 
CSG Subtract / Mapping Rhetoric 
The more predictable features (and therefore, hopefully the ones that are easier to implement) tend to be the most valuable.

Complex CSG functions have a bad rep for a reason. It doesn't mean they can't be well used though.

What I'm driving at is that the value of a feature is a result of balancing the pros and cons, not one or the other.

And both those should take into consideration things like 'time to implement' and 'will it be a bitch to get it right'. 
But Also 
"The fun to be had for the programmer", which for such difficult problems, is plenty! 
Haha 
True.

Here's some of my own coding stuff, may be of interest even though not editor related.

http://spiney.me/schism/forum/index.php?topic=303.msg3743#msg3743 
Speed Difference Between Version 1 Vs Version 1.04? 
I have noticed that certain actions in 1.04 now take considerably longer than in version 1 (I updated the .exe to see if they were functionally different, I have now reverted back to the original release). The actions causing slowdown (that I could find) are duplicating items, alt+clicking to copy textures and making new brushes. I think it may be a consequence of editing a map from version 1 in version 1.04. Maybe.
If you want to check it for yourself SleepwalkR I could email you my level 
FifthElephant 
Please do. Even better, create a bug report at http://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues 
SleepwalkR 
I have created a bug report, though I haven't changed the wording or anything from here as I'm no good at tech stuff really. I'll send you the .map file too so that you can see if it's just my machine being rubbish. 
Great 
Don't worry, it's fine - I'll adapt the bug reports if necessary. Thanks! 
 
It would be interesting to see some examples of how you guys use this and how you edit the resulting brushes so as to avoid the well known problems (additional face cuts etc.). I would be grateful if you could provide some screenshots (or videos).

Unfortunately I don't have any videos or screenshots examples because I don't have any maps in progress at the moment. I can describe when I use the CSG tools if that helps.

Personally I find CGS subtract useful when I am doing 3 point clipping. When I am trying to create two brushes that are flush against each other I will often use a duplicate brush to trim one brush to fit another. Afterwards I will use CSG merge to tidy up the brush fragments into better shapes.

The CSG tools work together when you subtract first and then merge afterwards. It is a two fold process and very much like a cutting knife, slicing odd shapes by using another brush as the template and the merge function fixing stuff afterwards.

I often hear newer mappers claim that CSG tools should be limited because *they can* make a mess, but if you are careful and understand how they work the CSG tools are very powerful and good for specific situations. If mappers are lazy and use them to create simple shapes then will make a terrible mess.

I would recommend coding CSG merge first because it has the most uses, especially for optimizing brushwork. Also new faces should adopt a similar texture to the first brush picked or mark new surfaces with caulk/skip instead so designers can see what has changed. 
Where Are All Those... 
sexy new maps to showing of your skills with this new editor :) 
Cool Video By Daz 
Introducing TrenchBroom: http://t.co/MYGW6CCLBE

Thanks! 
 
Sorry, but the video is useless until there is a version of TrenchBroom that works like it works in the video.

Please fix the grid information; the garbled text. That should be your first priority. 
It's On 
Dude, stop being a demanding prick and keep mapping with Quest if that is what you want. 
Deqer 
Seriously now, SleepwalkR has already stated that he's changing the text to a texture to fix that problem. Stop being a jerk about it, these things take time and this is actually a spare-time hobby project so just chill out and be patient! 
Or, Deqer 
..fix them by yourself!
Thats why its on GitHub. 
 
That should be your first priority.

Or you'll fire him?

This isn't a mob grabbing the torches and pitchforks - just chill out. 
Daz Pronounces .wad Different To Me. 
"Wad" hmmm - He uses a vowel sound like in 'mad', but I would use the vowel sound like in 'mod'. As in 'wads of cash'.

OCD much.

Also my college tutor pronounces iteration 'Eye-teration' Which is way worse IMO...... 
 
 
Really, FifthElement? I see no indication that it's being done. I posted a bug, and I see no indication that my bug has been viewed at all.

What I do see, is him spending his time discussing CSG stuff and working on other features--according to github logs.

Other people have complained about the garbled text as well. How is this issue not of highest priority? Is it low priority because it isn't fun for the programmer? ...

The new slogan:
"TrenchBroom, a new editor! But, make sure you have a gaming video card!" 
Yeah 
Sleepy, like I already told you on IRC (and you missed it), pimping TB through Carmack was a stroke of genius. This way it could gain some attention beyond this forum and ideally may just spark some renewed interest in Q1 mapping. 
Wad Vs Wod 
Same here, Ricky - I say it the way you do.

And thanks OTP - I didn't even know Rock, Paper, Shotgun so far (heard of the name, but didn't read it). Apparently it's a big thing, so if that drives more people to try TB or even help out with the development, that would be fantastic. 
Negke 
It was more of a spark of me celebrating TrenchBroom's release with a bit too much alcohol. I'm just happy I didn't put any spelling errors into that email ;-).

I was sure lucky that he retweeted it (on a friday no less, the tweet was there till monday) though. That was awfully nice of him. 
Deqer 
My guess would be you're getting ignored for being a gigantic tosser. 
Deqer 
I'm sure this stuff will get done at some point, but SleepwalkR isn't getting paid to do this, he's just doing it for the community and his own pleasure (am I wrong?). So he gets to prioritise his own backlog. I mean there's no need to get 'shirty', it's not like you had to pay for this software.
Also development can be very tiring, and he's just released this, it's bound to be a busy time for him. But the stuff on Github is there for a reason, I'm sure he will systematically go through the various bugs and feature requests in his own time. 
Wad Vs "wod"... 
I'm a Brit like Daz but I don't pronounce it the same as him. 
 
deqer

Can you take your self entitled attitude somewhere else, please? This is a hobbyist project that was released for free. You have zero ground to make demands on the programmers time. None. 
Haha 
It's hilarious when your own insulated views on game/technobabble pronunciations get onto the internet. I had honestly never thought about wad vs wod before now.

It's wAd though guys, c'mon now! ;) 
The Ambiguity Of Arnolds Accent 
But John Connor Is Easier To Distinguish 
 
"Dude, stop being a demanding prick and keep mapping with Quest if that is what you want. "

That's not what I want. What I want is to see TrenchBroom succeed and be the best editor out there, and I've been spending my time to help with that. So, sue me for getting frustrated.

Take your useless comments and kindly shove them up your ***. kthxbye. 
 
"Can you take your self entitled attitude somewhere else, please?"

Nope.

Now that I've said "nope", maybe you'll step back and keep quiet now. Thanks. 
North South Divide 
I'm a northerner and say 'wohd' as well. 
 
Nope.

Now that I've said "nope", maybe you'll step back and keep quiet now. Thanks.

Sure. It's your choice. Feel free to keep acting like an angry child. You're winning zero friends here.

Have fun! 
 
If you don't want to hear from the public, then maybe you shouldn't have released the editor to the public. 
 
"oh boy, yes! that's why im here. im looking for more friends.. yes!" lulz 
Deqer 
Deqer 
I sort of agree with your standpoint, but I mean your getting impatient after, like, a couple of days, dude. I mean take a pill man. 
Deqer 
If you have really been mapping for 15 years (which I seriously doubt judging by your general level of maturity and apparent skillset), you should know how this kind of community works, and that being such a colossal, simpering self-entitled little pillock is not really how we play cricket around here.

Let me just re-iterate. This is Sleepwalkr's fucking hobby. He is not getting paid for it, and you are in no position to throw your bottle out of the pram just because he doesn't want to drop everything and concede to your questionable demands. 
 
"oh boy, yes! that's why im here. im looking for more friends.. yes!" lulz
I'm sorry, I thought that my being here you were looking to be a part of the community.

So you're just here to be a dick or ... what? 
 
Rather, "I thought that BY being here..."

Stupid typos. 
You Have Not The Wisdom With Spoons Eaten 
deqer: Constructive criticism and brain-storming is very welcome. You are extending that to trying to force your opinion of "how it should work" and "what it should do" upon the author. Bugs that are high priority or even blockers for you might not be high priority for the author. 
 
Kinn, your post is fluffed and pointless. Quit wasting your time typing.

Yes, I've been mapping since Quake and long before Quake. Doom, Duke3d, etc. -- my level of maturity has no bearing. If my impatience--with someone else that isn't YOU--bothers YOU, then cry somewhere else about it, right? Right.

Hobby or not, paid or not, doesn't matter; we are involved. The editor has been released to us, so, we are involved now.

If SleepWalkR can't handle responding to the public, then maybe he shouldn't have released his editor to the public.

So, having said that, I'm definitely in a position to "throw my bottle out of the pram" as you put it.

I'm not expecting him to drop everything to deal with this issue. If he doesn't want to drop everything to deal with a specific issue, that's fine; then just say so then.

Do I really need to find 100 more people with the same issue to help raise the level of importance on the issue? Do I really need to do that?

It's like websites. You build your website to be compatible on all browsers, otherwise you risk losing a huge chunk of people that would/could/should've used this editor, and could also become part of the community then and assist.

CSG features don't help with that. 
 
"So you're just here to be a dick or ... what?"

Just because I'm here for TrenchBroom only and not for making friends, does not necessarily mean I'm here to be a dick. It just means I'm willing to be a dick if it comes to it. Usually it takes a second person to start the fight though; you know that. You know the expression "takes 2 to tango." 
 
"Hobby or not, paid or not, doesn't matter; we are involved. The editor has been released to us, so, we are involved now.

If SleepWalkR can't handle responding to the public, then maybe he shouldn't have released his editor to the public."

Seriously, what the hell?
The source is open, there's your involvement. 
Lol 
The editor has been released to us, so, we are involved now. We are Anonymous. We are Legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Expect us. 
 
Hobby or not, paid or not, doesn't matter; we are involved. The editor has been released to us, so, we are involved now.

That is great! Since TrenchBroom is free and open-source software under the GPL3 you can inspect the code, find the bug and write a patch then. I am sure Sleepwalkr would merge it quickly.

Do I really need to find 100 more people with the same issue to help raise the level of importance on the issue? Do I really need to do that?

Yes, of course. Because right now the level of importance seems fairly low. If there are really 101 people who want to map with TrenchBroom but are blocked from that opportunity by this bug, then this would make the bug very important. 
 
Just because I'm here for TrenchBroom only and not for making friends, does not necessarily mean I'm here to be a dick. It just means I'm willing to be a dick if it comes to it. Usually it takes a second person to start the fight though; you know that. You know the expression "takes 2 to tango."

Look, if you come stomping in here all blustering and demanding then you're going to ruffle feathers. You know that, that's why you're doing it. It's got nothing to do with the tango and everything to do with you being a dick.

Being a dick to a guy who spent the last year of his spare time writing a Quake editor which he released for free and is updating on a pretty regular basis. The problem, as it were, is that he's not working on YOUR pet problems. So you're being a dick to him and shitting up his thread.

Nice. You seem like a great guy. 
Make That Three Years ;-) 
 
 
Kinn, your post is fluffed and pointless. Quit wasting your time typing.

I admit my post is completely redundant, because everyone else here already said the same thing that I did. 
 
Make That Three Years ;-)
Oh, well, in that case pull up a chair. I have a list of demands I'd like to scream into your face... :P 
Don't Feed The Troll 
Let him live out his aspergers elsewhere. 
 
Yes... because we're all programmers, right Spiney? ... Oh please...

We submit issues, the devs address them. It's that simple. Why would you expect all of us to be programmers and do the feature ourselves? How unrealistic does that seem to you?

It's no different than SleepwalkR expecting people to signup to github and post the issue themselves, when SleepwalkR could've done that himself with a copy/paste.

It's no different than contacting a company to submit a suggestion, and the representative says "please submit it in writing", and you respond "okay. why can't you submit it for me as i tell it to you over the phone? it's only 1 sentence." and the company is so hurtin' enough that they refuse to and make you do it. Terrible service.

"who spent the last year of his spare time writing a Quake editor which he released for free and is updating on a pretty regular basis"

Oh please... Don't give me that. He did it because it was fun. It wasn't a chore for him, and no one asked for this anyways. Of course it's free, who the hell would be insane enough to think they could charge for a level editor for a game from the 90s? That would be like mappers charging people to download their maps. lol.

"The problem, as it were, is that he's not working on YOUR pet problems."
No... The problem is 1) You've chosen to assume it's a pet problem, when you have no good reason to provide for your assumption. While on the otherhand, I've provided multiple reasons and videos. 2) lack of communication. 3) signs of proof that he isn't working on it. no ETA or anything. Just silence, and then talking about other features like CSG.

I don't even know if he's working on it or not; that's the problem, no communication. My response is no different than any other response of a "customer" in the field of business.

If you can't handle the public, then don't submit to the public.

---

But, you all just had to respond to my hate comment on the Daz video, right? You just had to... You felt the need to respond, for some reason; maybe reason to "teach my lesson?"

Sad, because I've seen no lessons to be learned here yet from your responses. 
 
Sad, because I've seen no lessons to be learned here yet from your responses.

And you never will. You've got your back up now, it's your against the world, and there is no way in HELL you're backing down now. There's nothing more to be gained in talking to you now. 
Unbelievable 
Deqer - it's this simple: It's a fucking hobby, so stop continually comparing this to work, and stop expecting him to treat it like work. You are not a fucking customer.

Sleepwalkr owes you nothing. You cannot demand anything from him, and you cannot lambast him for not delivering things according to your warped expectations and selfish sense of entitlement. 
 
Also, SleepwalkR gains experience from this. he also gains portfolio work. He gains a lot. So, don't give me that "he's doing it in his spare time, for free, for us" crap. He gains a lot from this project, and now he'd like to gain some popularity by releasing it to the public.

Kinn, he does owe the public since he's involved the public now. Otherwise he's just shooting himself in the foot.

---

"Don't Feed the Troll" ?
They aren't feeding a troll, they are arguing.
I don't think you know what troll means, so, do us a favor and don't talk unless you know what you're talking about. Go look up the definition of troll, and ask yourself if I'm really a troll. Perhaps for someone like you, you may want to ask yourself twice.

"There's nothing more to be gained in talking to you now. "
Good, I guess that means you'll all quit your bitching now. Cool. 
Wanker 
 
 
Kinn, he does owe the public since he's involved the public now. Otherwise he's just shooting himself in the foot.

Bullshit. He is under no fucking obligation to do anything for any of us. He made something cool and free, and we are grateful for it, and he is happy to hear our feedback and make (or not make) whatever changes he wants completely according to his discretion.

Or he could drop it now, and move on to something else, and he still owes nothing to anyone.

This really should not be a difficult concept to grasp, and I'm almost certain you are a pitch-perfect troll now, because surely no-one can really be as thick as you appear to be? 
Thoughts For Deqer 
When interacting with developers, it is important to be thoughtful and considerate.

Especially with "for free" projects.

The reason is that it takes a lot of time and effort to make these things and it is clear SleepwalkR has a large to-do list.

Developers often change their minds or become open to alternate ideas as the to-do list dwindles. Sometimes even ideas they previously rejected.

The natural order of things with a free project is patience and understanding, exercising those traits is helpful to the development and will make you a better person.

Those traits also make it easier for developers to interact with you, making it more likely to get what you want. 
 
Alright, yes, technically he doesn't owe us. Fine. You win, Kinn.

---

Anyways, moving on now.

So, where do we stand? We have about 7 people in here telling SleepwalkR the same stuff as I have been telling. Mainly grid stuff, and 2d viewing/editing, etc.

So, I guess I need to find 93 more people. lol. pathetic. 
Baker 
Baker, you're right, and thanks for the soft post.

I guess my patience isn't as great as it should be for situations like this.

I've spent my time and patience so far, and I guess it's not enough, and I guess I need to accept that.

Okay. 
"How Unrealistic Does That Seem To You?" 
 
Support For Scourge Of Armagon + Dissolution Of Eternity Content? 
This would be very nice to have. 
Mission Packs 
I'm not sure but I suspect all you need for that are entity definitions, right? If you find a .def file or preferably a .fgd file for them, I'll gladly adapt them and add them to the editor. 
Adding Any Custom .def Files To Editor? 
"If you find a .def file or preferably a .fgd file for them, I'll gladly adapt them and add them to the editor. "

So, you'll be adding the hexen2.def file I linked above?--or maybe you already added it? Have you already added other common ones such as: quake2.def, hl.def, etc. ?

The link (above) for the hexen2.def is actually a sub folder. You'll find the other .def files in the root folder. Here is a direct link for you, to make it easier: https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B0piElswxauhYlpzVTk1ZFNibnM/edit --- The TrenchBroom folder is for compatible versions of the .def files, compatible for TB. I explained in previous posts here what that means--the fixes I made to get the .def file to load.

Can't say I understand all 10 of those .def files. For example, not sure what ctf.def, and detail.def would be for--because you'd figure the quake.def or quake2.def or whatever_game.def would already have the ctf entities in it for that specific game. But for the ones like heretic2.def, hl.def for half-life, sin.def, etc., yes. 
Wow... Was That Worth It? 
Well that was in interesting discussion... Me I try to whisper suggestions of things that would be "nice to have"

I can't comprehend how anyone could demand features for a free project like this. Its free done in their own time and I will gladly use it and give suggestions if they will be heard. If folks come in and make an ass of themselves plus piss off the developer... not the smartest thing to do. You catch more flies with honey then you do with vinegar my friends.

SleepwalkR you rock. Keep up the awesome work. You're revitalizing the quake based engine mapping community with this new tool. That's the best thing too. ITS NEW! lovely stuff.

Now everyone hug each other and make up. 
 
Hah! Autosave just saved my ass. Thanks! :P 
Great Release! 
I haven't been mapping since ~8 years. A post on Rock Paper Shotgun brought me here. I immedieately started mapping and got into a frenzy of straight 1h mapping session - just work, no distractions, no facebook, no mail, only the flow of mapmaking. Unfortunately the editor crashed on me and I lost my work.

Great great work man. You rock! This editor reminded me how fun mapping was. 
Zxc 
Thanks! Can you say how you got it to crash? Also, if you had previously saved, the editor will create automatic backups every five minutes or so, so your work might not be lost. Look at the autosave did in the directory where you (hopefully!) saved your maps. 
 
This won't help in any way but my crash came when I was attempting to resize a brush. Get on that, will you? :) 
Is That Brush Still In The Autosave 
And can you reproduce it? 
Dumb Question 
You would have said so. 
 
No, not dumb, I didn't think of that. However, I do remember opening the autosave and redo-ing that operation right away and it was fine so it was clearly some kind of long term hiccup thing. 
TrenchbRoom 
 
I have experienced crashes like what Willem is describing where a seemingly normal operation crashed the editor and then reloading to a prior save (done just before the operation that crashed) and redoing that same operation produced no error.

I haven't opened a ticket because I haven't been able to figure what actually caused it. 
Okay 
Well I suppose it is caused by memory corruption. Please, if you experience something like this again, let me know if you have used undo before, I suspect that there are still bugs in there somewhere. 
Use With Hammer 
Great program! :-) I'd like to use TrenchBroom for basic brushwork and then import my map file into Valve Hammer Editor, as Counter-Strike interests me more than Quake 1... I'm to understand this is possible, but I'm getting the following error in Hammer upon opening the file:
http://4ce.ca/images/sharex/2013-03-13_10-42-28.png

Any support would be highly appreciated. 
Hi Elevory 
I have already brought this issue to the attention of SleepwalkR (Trenchbroom author) and a ticket has been raised over on the Github.

The bug is caused by the Valve 220 protocol texture positioning info not being the same as the standard Quake info.

SleepwalkR has declared this 'a bug', and it is AFAIK on the list of things to be 'fixed'! Which is great because I am in the same boat as you are ;) 
@ SleepwalkR 
No, I didn't save even one time - rushed straight into mapping - so no autosave for me.

I doubt if I can reproduce this crash - it was something with scaling and selection of multiple brushes at the same time. 
Not Going To Comment On My .def Files Post, SleepwalkR? 
SleepwalkR,
Why--for the second time now--have you not commented on the .def file stuff I've been doing?

Why as soon as MacD11 asks about it, you jump out of your chair and say "I'd be glad to add any .def files you submit!"

Is it true? onetruepurple said I'm being ignore now?

You ignoring me?
You mad?

I also messaged you on IRC, 24 hours ago, and no response. I messaged "why no irc channel for trenchbroom?"

Yes, I messaged a person named "SleepwalkR"--not too many people out there with the name "SleepwalkR" with a capital "R" at the end, on irc.quakenet.org--So, I'm pretty sure it's you.

So, I guess you're ignoring me.

Well well, you poor baby. You mad. You giving me the "Silent Treatment" now? Trying to teach me a lesson? Awww, you poor ****ing baby.

Here's a tissue for your tears. *hands you tissue*

---

Sorry to post this here, but you provide no other contact information. So, I have no choice but to post here, and "dirty the thread up?" as someone called it. 
Oh Fuck Of Deqer 
Just use Quest and keep the fuck off this forum. 
 
He doesn't want to interact with you. U mad? 
Lul 
deqer, this is the treatment you'll be getting for such an attitude from the regulars of this board.
relax, go use radiant or whatever for your quake 2 boxmaps and stop polluting interwebs with your posts. 
Deqer 
Yes it does appear to be the case that your requests are being ignored. Hmm, yes we should probably investigate this peculiar turn of events...I'm sure there must be some reason for this, if only I can remember-

-oh wait, it's because you're a cunt. 
Elevory, Ricky 
Ricky, I understand your issue was about importing Hammer maps (or rather, Valve 220 maps) into TrenchBroom, which causes TB to choke.

Elevory, your issue seems to happen when doing it the other way round: Importing a TB map into Hammer. TB doesn't support the Valve 220 map format yet. Full support for it is planned for the 1.2 release, though:

https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/400

But I'm afraid it will take a while! 
Will 1.2 
Include stripping out the extra data or actually recognizing / reading it?

If I remember rightly Necros (?) was working on a stripper script that would remove the extra data attached to each face string.

Recognizing it would be the first step supporting the advanced texture projection. 
Ijed 
Fixing the parser to strip the extra data is scheduled for the next maintenance release. Actually recognizing and reading the data as well as in-editor support for changing the projection axes and saving .220 map files is what's planned for 1.2. 
Although 
I fully appreciate the difficulty in reverse engineering it and maintaining the original .map format, which is definitely a strength. 
Aha 
Ok then :) 
What's Going On Here 
Like seriously. Mad seriously. 
Ijed 
The Valve 220 format is properly documented and I know how it works. The Mac version already had support for it, but that feature got lost in the C++ rewrite.

You will be able to set the format in the map properties dialog. So if the map is standard Quake, TB will save standard Quake. If it is 220, then it will save 220 (and give you the additional tools to adjust the texture projection per face). 
Will You.. 
be able to open a normal map file and then re-save it into 220 at a later date to fix up the textures? 
Sounds Like It 
And that's awesome.

Thanks for the continued dedication to this project, it's well appreciated. 
Beer++; Continue; 
 
Vondur 
Quest and Quake 3. 
Friction 
What's Going On Here

He's the turd that won't flush. 
FifthElephant 
Conversion of standard Quake to Valve 220 map is trivial (it will not affect the textures), but the other way round is tricky. I'm not quite sure how well TB will support that. 
 
"What's Going On Here?"

What's going on? SleepwalkR is being a bitch, just like all programmers.

I'm not surprised. Programmers are bitches, and many people have known that for years.

Maybe I should post videos of the things that trenchbroom lacks, and promote those videos as a "beware" message to all mappers out there. Would that help?

"Oh Fuck Of Deqer "
Thanks Ricky. I know, the truth hurts, doesn't it. 
 
deqer

U mad? 
Sleep 
I think the most sane choice would be to discard the additional texture information.

As much as I like how it works, it does have its limitations - often when slicing a brush it'll corrupt the projection leaving the actual BSP unplayable on certain engines (that being a linux issue AFAIK, but I could be wrong).

Trying to replicate the projection sounds like a minefield, and one it'd only be possible to partially cross before you lost your legs. Then arms, etc. 
 
Willem, nope. Like I said, I'm not surprised. I'm just pointing out the facts.

Even when people are nice, they still get ignored by programmers.

Heck, even the Project Manager in the company I work for complains about the same thing. Says the same thing too, lol, "programmers are such bitches."

So, if SleepwalkR feels he's better off being a bitch, then so be it. "Not to sound harsh or anything", right SleepwalkR? heh.

I'm sure he uses that quote a lot, "Not to sound harsh but ... ", but doesn't realize that it's complete bullshit when you actually read his entire post that follows that quote. lol 
Ijed 
Not quite sure what you mean now. Are you talking about converting 220 to standard Quake? There would only be approximate solutions in that case, but I could at least try to keep the texture's center pixel in a face intact. This is how texture lock works right now. 
I Was Referring 
To both, but yeah, in the previous I was talking about 220 -> .map.

Keeping it locked as you mention sounds the best solution. 
 
I think the most sane choice would be to discard the additional texture information.

As much as I like how it works, it does have its limitations - often when slicing a brush it'll corrupt the projection leaving the actual BSP unplayable on certain engines (that being a linux issue AFAIK, but I could be wrong).

Trying to replicate the projection sounds like a minefield, and one it'd only be possible to partially cross before you lost your legs. Then arms, etc.


I think that the texture projection stuff is powerful enough that it's worth trying to get it working. especially if you could directly control it in the editor, to, for example, make tri-souped terrain faces all use the same projection. 
Necros 
That's the plan, yeah. All modern compilers can handle the 220 format anyway and to Quake it's all the same AFAIK because QBSP generates the texture coordinates for the engine. 
Yeah 
I just meant the scope of the conversion features - once you're working in 220 you probably won't want to change back anyway unless exporting to another editor. 
Deqer 
What hurts is your ridiculous tone. Your inane sense of self-importance, your impatience.

I'm basically reading this thread, interested in the development of a new editor and talking to a bunch of fellow Quake fans and hobby Quake developers, many of which I have been chatting to for years.

When somebody comes straight in with a poor attitude, strange grasp of reality and high level of hubris, and then starts being unnecessarily rude to people who have every right to do as they please then YES I get annoyed, and if I were you I would listen to the other people who are also tired of your ridiculous attitude, and just stop trolling this thread with your sorry antagonistic arrogant deluded bizarre angle.

For one, I don't know what the fuck planet you are on. I was intrigued by your early posts, but I rapidly started to get suspect when I viewed a YouTube video called 'How to Make a Staircase in Trenchbroom' or something similar which depicted some absolute nonsense poor methodology of some idiot playing around in the ancient Quest editor. I mean what the hell!?! That's just a pure troll attempt at SleepwalkR, and anybody interested in Trenchbroom who might be looking for related videos on YouTube.

You should delete that shit. It's bullshit, and you, sir, are a moron.

What's all this crap you were saying on another forum, bitching because someone gave you a 7/10 and you thought your map was a 10/10?!?! I mean that just makes you sound like a complete moron from the start.

We don't want it here, so please fuck off!! Maybe if you apologised for being so arrogant and insulting (verging on bigoted - WTF Programmers are bitches, and many people have known that for years. - Do you know how stupid that makes you sound?!?! If anything you just look like an idiot for thinking that everyone of a particular type is a 'bitch')..... Sorry - maybe if you apologised for being such a completely rude, arrogant, impatient and insulting person towards Sleeps, and then stopped being all of the above, you might get a little further. 
SleepwalkR 
In Worldcraft there seem to be two different modes for textures. 'Tow World' and 'To Face'. As far as I can tell, 'To Face' is the rogue type. So perhaps it would be possible to convert the 'To World' ones to standard Quake info, and just approximate or [reset to zeros] all of the 'To Face' ones. 
RickyT23 
Just ignore him, his posts are all insane, indefensible drivel and the only thing left to do is ignore him otherwise he'll keep posting. 
Ricky 
Yes, but that's a limitation of Hammer. Actually you can define any coordinate system for the texture projection. But yeah, "to world" can be converted 1:1. 
TB -> Hammer 
I was able to successfully open a .map file created using TB in Hammer 3.4.

At first I thought it may have worked because I didn't texture any brush faces, but I just did a 2nd test with textured brushes and that opened just fine also.

Hmm, more tests. I can create maps in Hammer 3.4, export to .map and open that map in TB just fine also.

Am I being dumb? I hope this helps if you were having problems here. 
Tick The Boxes 
RickyT23 
"What's all this crap you were saying on another forum, bitching because someone gave you a 7/10 and you thought your map was a 10/10?!?! I mean that just makes you sound like a complete moron from the start. "

No. I questioned his rating because he didn't provide a valid explanation to it. The other people rated it 10/10.

When I questioned his rating, he turned into a little kiddie about it and changed his rating to 0/10 to spite me. So, I requested that my map be removed, because I don't support rating systems where spite votes are allowed.

Why else do you think lvlworld.com has a new website now where the rating system has changed now; you now need reputation to vote, and votes and be rated now with thumb-up and thumb-down.

Why do you think I disabled ratings on my youtube videos? Because there are few losers here who will thumb-down just for spite.

---

Apologize? Apologize for what? Apologize for responding/questioning the fact that SleepwalkR didn't put much thought into my original post and immediately responded with "nope" essentially.

Nah. 
Yeah Dude 
The guy gave you a seven out of ten.

He was a tough customer, but you didn't manage to wow him enough that he had to give you a 10. Because your map wasn't good enough to do that. If it was then he would have given you a ten, get it? 'All is fair in love and war'

Nah just apologise for being rude and the turning into a total troll.

And alienating yourself. But you can apologise to yourself for doing that.

I've released a bunch of maps, but I'm not such an arrogant person that I think I have a right for people to agree with the rating that I would give to my own map myself. That is very very arrogant. And for your information - nobody likes an arrogant prick.

And your belligerent attitude towards 'all who do not agree with you' just makes you unpleasant. Frankly I couldn't give a fuck about any of your maps or your opinion, I just want you to stop posting. 
 
When I questioned his rating, he turned into a little kiddie about it and changed his rating to 0/10 to spite me. So, I requested that my map be removed, because I don't support rating systems where spite votes are allowed.

That's it guys, we've hit peak irony here. Pack it all up, The Internet's over, nothing more to see here.

(yeah yeah, I know I just said we should ignore this guy, but sometimes, you just can't).

Deqer - I wish I could quit you. ;¬# 
Lol 
I also try ignore him.

It's just too tempting to poke back because you know he's going to come with some ridiculous cringe-worthy responses. It's a vicious cycle.
My hat goes off to the people civilized enough to show restraint, haha. 
Being Ignored You Should, Deqer 
Stop trolling this thread, and yeah, like Spirit said:
"You Have Not The Wisdom With Spoons Eaten"

All said, canadian moron.

Greetings from Berlin :) 
Mfx 
A fellow Berliner! 
Tasty 
 
"He was a tough customer, but you didn't manage to wow him enough that he had to give you a 10. Because your map wasn't good enough to do that. If it was then he would have given you a ten, get it?"

If you're not going to explain your rating, then don't rate. It's pointless.

Just like SleepwalkR, if you're not going to explain yourself and rather just effortlessly say "nope" essentially, then, well, there you go.

Even though we have 7 people in here telling you the same thing. You're all like "nope."

What does Canada have to do with it? I could've been born in Germany, and I'd still have the same response. I could care less where I was born, or live. It just so "happens" that I'm in Canada. Big--whooptie doo dah--deal... 
 
He has a point. Stupidity doesn't respect borders. 
Typical Attitude Of Programmer. 
Typical attitude of programmer:
"I am god, and therefore I do not need to be patient with any of you. Nope. One slip from you, and now you're on my shitlist, because I am god here." 
And Deqer, Never I Thought... 
this holy Func_Msg Board could turn into a somehow insulting, inpolite
Youtube comment-like something...
Shame on you, and your videos are ****
Importing Quest into TB and what?? Nearly laughed my head off.

Thanks to Sleepwalker, for giving this sleepwaking community this powerful tool, to let us dream on in our own designed nightmares..

What a giant you are Sleepy, thank you!

PS: Sleepwalker, a beer is waiting for you at the STÄV, if you like Kölsch...:)

Good Night 
 
i'll admit whilst part of me finds this all very hilarious, another part questions the morality of ganging up on someone who is clearly autistic 
I Do! 
Drop me a line at kristian.duske@gmail.com! 
Neil Young Is Great, Has Nothing To Do With CN, Sorry. 
But you still ... you know? 
Sleepwalkin Not Alone You Will Be 
 
Sleepwalkin Not Alone You Will Be 
 
Now I'm A Bit Scared ;-) 
 
 
According to my original post, I'm polite.
According to SleepwalkR's post, he isn't. He didn't even think twice about it; didn't even think once about it; he responded immediately; and to top it off, he added that generic shit liner you hear from people a lot: "if you don't like it, go somewhere else."

So, do the math.

And did I mention we have 7 other people in here telling him the same thing? And he's ignoring it all. 
What The Fuck?!? 
Stop using my name Deqer!!!! 
Or You´ll Be Fired... 
Sorry SW double post in Joda while refreshing tab. 
Mfx 
this holy Func_Msg Board could turn into a somehow insulting, inpolite
Youtube comment-like something...

You must be new here :) 
 
Didn't close bracket.. 
Sorry Msx 
My mistake. I made same mistake with Willem's name too. Sorry. I can only hope the readers can see that mistake. 
Don't Worry 
It's impossible to mistake you for anyone else, no matter what name you use. 
No Ijed 
been here observing for like 6 years or so, but never I felt like having to comment or something.
But I have some new Q1 stuff which I did the last year (and will be released if i find some beta testers...<-hint)
Btw Q1 was my first love, and it will be my first. ;) 
Mfx 
Just go to the Screenshots thread and post a shot there with a plea for testers and you'll find plenty I'm sure. 
Which Screenshot Thread, SW? 
sorry, im dumb.. 
 
click the forum link at the top of the page here, 5th item down on the resulting page. Sign up too! :-) 
Thanx Did It 
and be prepared... 
I'm Sorry. 
Alright guys, I'm sorry. Really, I am. I sincerely apologize for my behaviour in here.

My actions here have touched some people in a serious manner, and I didn't think twice about that.

Looks like my reputation is ruined, now. :/

All I can do is move on, and be calm; and hope to gain back some reputation, and ultimately some respect from the regulars here.

I'm just a stranger here, you know. Unfortunately I did not grow up in this community, and that makes things harder.

I've registered an account here now, and I plan to contribute to the community in any way I can. I will be checking the Mapping help thread, and Screenshots, and such, and provide any help I can--not because I feel punished and that I need to--because I actually like to do that anyways; like to help out.

Again, I'm sorry, and ask for your forgiveness. 
Fixed Videos. 
I fixed up my videos as well, so they are not misleading, and I removed the bad videos. 
Deqer 
Welcome back!

The text bug is on my todo list, and it will get fixed when the text system is replaced with a better, faster version. I'll see if I can fix it sooner though, as it seems to be related to the "OpenGL Instancing" setting as well. I'll look into it for 1.0.5.

Everyone else: Let's give deqer a break so that we can get back on topic. 
SleepwalkR 
it's good to know I can port over to 220 when the time comes, I seem to be coping fine without it really but I am definitely a perfectionist about things like texture alignment. Can't wait to see the future of the editor if this is the beginning. 
@SleepwalkR 
Definitely looking forward to version 1.2, then! Very happy to have discovered this software. 
Btw 
this is now the longest news thread on func (fitzquake 0.85 thread has 643 posts.) 
Hexen 2 
I hope you will make Hexen 2 support soon. 
Hareton 
I will take a while and will definitely not happen before release 1.2. There are more pressing issues, and my time is limited. Sorry! 
Hareton 
People tell me that you just need a Hexen 2 .def and .fgd file. Deqer provided one here:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0piElswxauhWTVaeDFqUHUtTTA/edit

But he says it doesn't load properly. I can't test it right now, but maybe you can edit it or isolate the errors. TrenchBroom should give you more or less meaningful error messages as to where the parser chokes. 
Addendum 
There was a Hexen II FGD file for worldcraft by autolycus at some point:

http://www.quakewiki.net/archives/worldcraft/files/files.shtm

But I can't download it. Maybe someone in the Hexen II community has it. It should work with TrenchBroom. 
Another Addendum 
If you get it to work, it would be nice if you could upload the def or fgd file somewhere for me. Then I can include it in the editor. 
Final Addendum ;-) 
I have found a Hexen II FGD file and uploaded it here:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7009168/FGD/hexen2fgd.zip

I can't test it right now, but maybe it works right out of the box. 
 
Just to clarify, the hexen2.def I linked above is the one I fixed.

BTW, I tried the hexen2.fgd you linked now, SleepwalkR, and it loads fine. However, the entities aren't as colorful as the hexen2.def file. Not sure if that matters; just looks prettier. lol.

I'll fix up the other .def files I have, and link them soon.

BTW, if anyone is interested, I posted another video, 3 minutes long, about working with textures in trenchbroom. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnEnn61GRR0 
Colours 
Def and fgd both have the colours of entities written into each entry and you can customise them as you wish.

It usually helps a bit to do this when working on a mod and you start adding more helpers and stuff. 
Colors 
In the builtin defs could be more diverse too. Any takers ? ;-) 
Funnily Enough 
I'm just looking at my own fgd right now and seeing why it doesn't work.

It seems there's some extended functionality not used in CZGs fgd that I have for presets and CSS style settings where some values are inherited by all things of a type, for example monsters.

There's also a @main that it chokes on but which is only used for WC to define default entities and is easily commented.

I can't use TB just yet since my WIP maps are all in 220 format, but I'll add colours to the various def files if you want, following the precedents in the rubicon2 fgd. 
Quick Question... 
Anyone build the windows version of TrenchBroom with CodeBlocks? I felt I'd pretty much got there before but had some annoying problems that I'm about to try and resolve. If anyone has any insight to getting it up and running without needing visual studio bloated crapware installed then that info would be much appreciated.

I'm going to try and compile wxWidgets in much the same way I did with the linux version and see if it works, though I'm guessing the binaries mentioned in the build.txt file might be a better bet. 
Than 
Not sure how you can use the wxWidgets binaries in Code::Blocks, but it should work. I would prefer to use them as it will put less burden on those who also want to use Code::Blocks on Windows.

Let me know if you get anywhere, or send me a pull request with a Code::Blocks project file. 
Hexen II Support 
Unfortunately there is more info in a Hexen II map file than in a Quake map file, so support for the game is not a question of simply adding an FGD.

I have found an updated FGD and wads here:

http://dronedev.net/mapconv/ 
Serious Problem For Me In Latest Windows Version 
I can't load any maps other than those I've just made with TrenchBroom; I can't even load a map I made with a different version of TB.

I tried loading E1M1.MAP and a couple of other things, but no luck whatsoever. At first I thought it was the 3d view, but I can draw new brushes as usual. If I save a map, I can then load it and have it work properly - only previously saved maps aren't working :/

When trying to load these maps, there are no error messages, but no textures or entities load with the map, and nothing is displayed in the 3d view unless I draw a brush :(

saving gives me a 0KB file, so the map is clearly not being loaded. Anyone else have this issue?

Note that this is *not* some broken version I just compiled (still working on it :/ ), but the regular windows download from the TB homepage (1.0.4 129). 
Can You Send Me An Example Map? 
 
Than 
not having that issue with that version at all.

when loading a map does the console window show something like:
Unloading existing map file and textures...
Loading file E:\q1maps\blahh2.map
Loaded map file in 0.000000 seconds
Loaded E:\q1maps\hex2.wad in 0.005000 seconds


Moar Features 
I don't know if this has been suggested or is already implemented, but there definitely need to be options to move (or add) world brushes to an existing brush entity as well as the other way around. Ideally a little more versatile than "ungroup" in Radiant 1.5 which always converts (or removes if you will) the entire entity, whereas it's sometimes desirable only to apply the action to certain brushes. 
Negke... 
You already can added and remove brushes that way. to add to the world spawn, you select the objects in the brush entity and then right click outside the selection "add to world spawn"... and vice versa to add to an entity. 
Ok, Good 
 
Negke 
RTFM! 
Never! 
Unless... how about including it in audio book form!!! 
 
you wouldn't like my voice. 
 
do i need to whip out espeak again, negkenegkenegkenegkenegkenegkenegkenegkenegkenegkenegke? 
I Didn't Even Rtfm... 
found it by accident making a lift... :P 
SleepwalkR 
Can you send me all the defs/fgs you're using currently?

Latest download has just quake/quoth fgd and rubicon2 def. 
Email In Profile 
Or;

louismanning (at) gmail 
I Don't Habe Any Others 
Or did you mean Hexen etc? 
Tried To Fix More Def Files. Failed. But, Fixed Heretic2.def 
I tried to fix more of the .def files I had, but no luck.

I made a FAIL video of my attempts to fix the .def files, for anyone that's interested.

At the end of the video, I give up on heretic2.def, where the error was asking for a newline but I did not believe it.

Well, after the video, I tried newline, and it worked. Had to fix 10 more of those newline errors. Eventually, I finished, and heretic2.def now loads in TrenchBroom.

Here is the link:

Fixed .def files:
heretic2.def - https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0piElswxauhSTduYTNGaFdjSWM/edit

I'll link you the hexen2.def file again as well,
hexen2.def - https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0piElswxauhbnZJQ2Q2WGxHUDg/edit

FAIL video of my attempts to fix .def file parse errors: http://youtu.be/rFmYmQMTqD8 
Worldcraft 1.6a 
Has hexen 2 fgds I think. Probably zerstorer and others. Try downloading it from the tools section of quaddicted. 
Than, Deqer 
I already have these FGDs now:

from The Forge
- Quake Scource of Armagon
- Quake Dissolution of Eternity
- Zerstoerer
- Hexen 2
- Quake 2 with Arghrad support
- Quake 2 Ground Zero
- Quake 2 The Reckoning

from Hexen 2 Hammer adapter
- Hexen 2 (bit.ly/XDpPZ4)

For now, it does not make much sense to work on DEFs or FGDs for games that need extra support from TrenchBroom, as this will take a while. And since noone really maps for the MPs or Zerstoerer, there's not much to be gained from pouring work into improving those FGDs either. 
Give This A Whirl Last Night 
a few minor glitches i'm getting; after 674 posts i can't be 100% sure they haven't occurred for anyone else and are being looked at!

1. the 'X' button on the view and texture filters don't seem to work; they select the text in their respective fields but don't remove anything

2. the keyboard shortcut for rotating a texture 90 degrees does nothing for me; i can do it by holding ctrl and clicking on the spinner, and can also press shift-pgdn to rotate it one degree, but nothing for ctrl-pgdn/pgup

3. the increase/decrease grid size shortcuts only work on the -/+ keys next to backspace, not the num pad ones (which are far easier to access without looking!)


also some minor interface suggestions:

1. it would be nice to have some visual indication of texture lock being on or off without having to check the edit menu. and definitely a shortcut to toggle it :)

2. same goes for current grid size; i remember you saying you were considering an alternative to a status bar though so assuming this is being considered already.

3. pretty much second DaZ's thoughts about the entity window in his video. you may have already figured out a solution but i think it would be cool being able to add field names by right-clicking and selecting from a little menu based on the fgd/def info for that entity


lastly, a question: is there a keyboard shortcut to switch between the entity/face/view tabs? 
Eesh 
a few minor glitches i'm getting; after 674 posts i can't be 100% sure they haven't occurred for anyone else and aren't being looked at!

1. the 'X' button
s on the view and texture filters don't seem to work; they select the text in their respective fields but don't remove anything 
Rj 
1. the 'X' button on the view and texture filters don't seem to work; they select the text in their respective fields but don't remove anything

That's a bug in the GUI library I'm using. Not much I can do about it right now I'm afraid.

2. the keyboard shortcut for rotating a texture 90 degrees does nothing for me; i can do it by holding ctrl and clicking on the spinner, and can also press shift-pgdn to rotate it one degree, but nothing for ctrl-pgdn/pgup

There is no such shortcut AFAIK. What exactly are you trying to do?

3. the increase/decrease grid size shortcuts only work on the -/+ keys next to backspace, not the num pad ones (which are far easier to access without looking!)

You will be able to assign the keyboard shortcuts in 1.1.


1. it would be nice to have some visual indication of texture lock being on or off without having to check the edit menu. and definitely a shortcut to toggle it :)

Others have request this, too, and it will probably go into the toolbar.

2. same goes for current grid size; i remember you saying you were considering an alternative to a status bar though so assuming this is being considered already.

Ditto.

3. pretty much second DaZ's thoughts about the entity window in his video. you may have already figured out a solution but i think it would be cool being able to add field names by right-clicking and selecting from a little menu based on the fgd/def info for that entity

Yes, entity editing will be improved a lot in 1.2.

lastly, a question: is there a keyboard shortcut to switch between the entity/face/view tabs?

Not yet, but it's on my todo list.

Thanks for your feedback! 
 
There is no such shortcut AFAIK. What exactly are you trying to do?

following the guide here: http://kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/docs/working_with_textures.html ('Texture Rotation' heading)

Thanks for your feedback!

thanks for your editor! 
 
Is the viewport the current active window? 
Yup 
the other texture shortcuts work fine. it's just that one... 
In Fact, That Reminds Me 
another suggestion i forgot to mention. it might make everything a little bit quicker to use if running the cursor over a window/region made it 'active' providing a button isn't being pressed during mouse movement (i think this is how WC works)

sometimes i have to click in the viewport before being able to select a brush after working in the side panel, and other times i don't. not noticed any correlation yet though 
Rj 
So you're shift-clicking on the little spin buttons next to the rotation field? Does Shift+click work for buttons next to the offset fields?

Regarding the focus issues: The 3D view has a focus rectangle drawn around it, and if you focus any other controls, you have to return focus to the 3D view by clicking on it once. Is the focus rectangle visible on your system? I have noticed that it is sometimes hard to see on Windows. 
 
What might help there would be to do what 3DS Max does ... the first click in an inactive viewport, simply makes it active. The click doesn't count. That way you can set focus without changing your selections or clicking something by accident. 
Original Quake.map Source Wont Load? 
Hello SleepwalkR,

I was curious to check out the original source files inside Trench from quake 1. And from the looks of things they wont load?

http://planetquake.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Quake.Detail&id=343

Here is the original Map files from ID software. I guess that the .map format has changed or something from back then?

Cheers! 
Willem 
That's what it does right now? 
 
They load find for me, can you be more specific? 
Skiffy 
TB 1.0.4 is a turd that has several issues with loading maps. 1.0.5 will fix this. 
 
How do you guys organise your wad files? TB always opens the "Quake directory" when I want to load wads. I would much rather have it always open the dir I lastly picked a wad in. Opinions? 
Spirit 
I have no control over what directory the dialog opens in. It's a wxWidgets issue AFAIK. 
Defs/fgds 
Ah, ok. When you said 'defs' before I was too literal.

The time difference worked against me, so hopefully I'll be able to do them tonight instead.

I was going to go with what Rubicon2 has defined, but I don't agree with everything there since some of the elements are mixed.

I prefer to group things by colour, how does this sound;

Player (all types of starts and tele destinations)
Monsters
Lights
Misc objects (fireballs, barrels etc)
Fx (sound/visual)
Path / Logic (relay, path_corners)
Collectables (Health / Armour)
Weapons / Powerups
Traps

What colours each one will be depend on visibility in the editor. I'll stick to precedents like monsters being red, although some things won't make sense - both lights and the player being green, for example will mean lights changing colour because the player should take precedent. 
Make It Easier To Edit Doors! 
You really have to make it so that you can easily edit the angle of which doors open. Having to always manually set the angle by typing a number is really annoying and makes the whole process much more time consuming and annoying then it has to be.

In fact, having to manually type in all the values in the first place is annoying. Create some buttons for christs sakes! 
 
So you're shift-clicking on the little spin buttons next to the rotation field? Does Shift+click work for buttons next to the offset fields?

shift-clicking on the little spin buttons works fine. i'm referring to the keyboard shortcuts section:

Texture Rotation

For rotating textures, the PageUp and PageDown keys rotate the texture clockwise and counter-clockwise at 15° intervals. As with the spinner controls detailed previously, the Shift modifier key increases the rotation interval to 90° and the Ctrl modifier key decreases the rotation interval to 1°.


the ctrl modifier works, but the shift one doesn't.

Regarding the focus issues: The 3D view has a focus rectangle drawn around it, and if you focus any other controls, you have to return focus to the 3D view by clicking on it once. Is the focus rectangle visible on your system? I have noticed that it is sometimes hard to see on Windows.

yep, can see it ok. i'm assuming it should work thusly:

1. click on the side-panel, viewport border disappears;
2: click back on the viewport once, border reappears;
3: click in the viewport again, object is selected.

..however in most cases, the border only reappears at step 3. and in maybe about 25% of cases, step 2 is skipped. it's a bit temperamental.

i think avoiding step 2 altogether would be the best solution, minimising clicking. the border could pop up whenever the mouse hovers over the window and let you select anything with one click. no idea whether that's possible with the GUI library though? 
I Just Created A Site To Review Quake Maps! 
I just created a website for the purpose of reviewing Quake maps called QuakeBlast.

http://quakeblast.webs.com/

If anyone is interested then they can send me the maps that they create with SleepWalkR's new editor :) 
Ijed 
Please make sure to use red sparsely because it's hard to differentiate selected entities from unselected entities that have the color red. 
Rj 
Texture rotation: Okay, got it - will fix in 1.0.5.

Focus: Looks like it's a big buggy. I'll look into it. I won't change it though as otherwise, you will inadvertedly select / deselect stuff a lot. 
Hakkarin 
Better support for entity editing incl. a smart entity editor for angles is planned for 1.2.

Cool site, I hope there will be many maps to review soon. 
 
That's what it does right now?

Haha ... OK, I just experimented with it and it DOES do it. However, the focus border doesn't redraw on that first click so you don't know it worked. It looks like it didn't. On your second click, the border appears.

So it IS working but there's a redraw issue. 
 
Windows 7, Geforce 670, for reference. 
 
Understanble, SleepwalkR. I know you mentioned earlier that there is more to "it" than just a .def file. So, I'll leave it be for now. Quake should be the focus, for now.

lastly, a question: is there a keyboard shortcut to switch between the entity/face/view tabs?
I don't think so, but, on Windows when I pressed SHIFT+RIGHT_ARROW, it switched over to those tabs and switch through those tabs each time I pressed SHIFT+RIGHT_ARROW.

I just created a website for the purpose of reviewing Quake maps called QuakeBlast.
We have lvlworld.com for that. They've been around for over 10+ years. I doubt you want to try and compete with that? Even if you did, you would want quakeblast.com as your domain name, not quakeblast.webs.com. 
Willem 
RJ mentioned the same problem, and I have created bug for it. Thanks! 
Deqer 
The shortcuts you are using for the tabs are coincidental. I will add commands to directly switch to and activate the tabs (and also one to switch back to the 3D view from wherever you are) which you can assign shortcuts to yourself in 1.1.

If I'm not mistaken, lvlworld is exclusively for Quake 3, no? Also, competition is good for business, so the more, the merrier! 
Deqer 
I am not trying to compete with anyone. I just wanted a cute little site of my own where I review some Quake maps. It's a hobby, basically. 
Hakkarin 
Did you have a look at some of the more recent Quake releases over at http://www.quaddicted.com? Maybe you could pick a few and write reviews for them so as to get some initial content going. 
You Know 
There's Tronyn Reviews @ quaddicted.com at the moment, for Quake 1, though he doesn't review every single map AFAIK (most though). But since Underworld Fan gave up the job about 5 years ago, there hasn't been a dedicated review site, only the reviews on Quaddicted (long live Spirit, Tronyn etc and thank goodness they were there the last five years) dot com.

So a new Quake review site isn't such a bad thing. I mean I take it that this site has sprung up amidst all of the buzz around Trenchbroom, but I hope it's not just for Trenchbroom maps.

There are a lot of mappers still mapping for Quake (the flow of Quake 1 maps never stopped completely, though it did slow some), and with BSP2 now accessible there is scope for some of the biggest and baddest maps to date. I personally think that Quake has yet to peak. There's something inherantly attractive about one person being able to develop a whole map or episode for a true 3D game like Quake. Because Quake is fairly low res and simple, and doesn't require a degree in Lua to 'script' for, not to mention the voice actors and modellers etc etc, and because the ceiling for large maps has just been raised to four times the height it was before I really think that the best has still to come....

But no - two quastions:

1 - Is the site exclusive to Trenchbroom Maps
because the majority of Quake mappers have yet to adopt it (not saying they wont, but it's abig transition))(I'm guessing not)

2 - Who will review the maps?
Will there be a community scoring system?
Will there be one person who reviews the maps (this has positives and negatives - positives being that 1 persons POV is a solid thing (i.e. the Tronyn benchmark - "I usually like the same maps he likes, so this one must be good"), negatives being an individuals bias potential)

3 - I like Deqer now, Deqer sorry for swearing at you and being a bit mean, I felt bad once I read your subsequent messages and realised you were sincere in your messages and your enthusiasm for Quake/dev. 
Heh 
It will actually be cool if hakkarin reviews new maps without knowing about an authors previous maps.

Like a lot of us will know that some mappers work is going to always be awesome, and expect nothing less, but someone who hasn't played all of them and doesn't know all of the various mappers and their work will have no preconceptions based upon the name. That would be cool.

This should probably get moved to another thread.

hakkarin - please create a news post in the News section, it will go out over RSS for starters, and it will stop us from having the rest of this discussion on the Trenchbroom thread :) I feel it could be a lengthy one. 
Scoring And Stuffs 
I am personally not a fan of scoring at all. I prefer in-depth textual reviews such as the ones on TeamShambler or The Ramshackle. I realize those sites had ratings, but personally I don't think it's necessary.

The problem with ratings is that they don't serve much of a purpose (unless you're running Quaddicted and want to be able to sort the maps by them) and they instantly spark debate. I would much rather read a detailed analysis for certain aspects of a map (item placement, architecture and so on) than get a short description of the map and rating.

Ricky, a community scoring system makes sense on Quaddicted, but not so much on a review site IMHO.

That said, I say let hakkarin figure it out by himself. He hasn't written a single review yet and we're already meddling with it ;-) 
 
The thing with long and wordy reviews is that in my opinion they only really entertain the writer and the map author. I play a map or I don't. Reading a long review does not affect me in that decision.

Great to see a new face/nick, welcome hakkarin! 
About The Review Site 
I did as you guys suggested and posted about the new site in the news, though the post hasn't be approved yet. And no, there is no rule that demands that maps must be made with TrenchBroom in order to be reviewed. And yes I will have scores on the site because who doesn't love em? There will still actual written reviews as well though, because having only numbers as scores would be very boring :) 
 
Oh and if I could turn back time, Quaddicted would use a much reduced scale for ratings, 1 to 3 as in "no", "try", "play it". 
Maybe I Mean Something Different 
Personally I am more interested in in-depth analysis of someone with a deep understanding of level design / game flow / etc. than I am in reading a short review. I don't need scores to tell me to play or not to play a map - come on, it's not like we get bombarded with new maps and have to choose, right? 
 
The trouble that I've seen with wordy review sites is that they tend to start treading the same ground and start using the same phrases over and over. Which is understandable given the subject matter but it is witheringly difficult to give a fresh and in-depth critique to each and every map. Maybe if there was a team of writers or something who could switch off map reviews... 
Reviews 
I always enjoy reading well-written reviews, having another person deconstruct your work is always a great way to learn and improve. I don't mind rating systems as long as it's a good representation of the opinion of the reviewer and not some pseudo-scientific calculation (1-5 star reviews are good, like the old CVG reviews) 
Avoid Red: Will Do 
 
What Colour Type Is It? 
And what Palette?

Finding it difficult to assign different ones to the various groupings. 
 
Not sure what exactly you're asking, but maybe these links will help:
Quake palette: http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quake/wad_conv/palette.html

The color codes for Quake palette: http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quake/wad_conv/quakepal.txt 
Aha 
Got it.

Fgd uses rgb 0-255 while Def uses 0-1.

So all the worldcraft values are invalid - any number at all clamps to 100%.

Fixing. 
Ok, Done: 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dqnm02pth5313sd/Quake.fgd

This uses the 0-1 colour scale.

However, in order to read future fgd's out of the box, without having to convert by hand, you might want to consider reading their native 0-255 rgb format.

In regard to how I grouped things, I tried to make it forwards compatible with any new entities a modder might require:

Logic - white
Dangerous Stuff - Orange
Atmosphere, lighting - Yellow
Misc - Turquoise
Pathing - Purple
Collectables - Blue
Ammo - Dark Purple
Players / Camera - Green

The sub groupings of stuff have slight variations within those broad colours.

I'll do the Quoth one if you decide to keep the 0-1 colour format, along with some cleanup to make them easier to read. 
Deqer 
Thanks, I've been looking for a colour key for ages since a link I had to an image was lost when a site closed.

That .txt colour readout is going to be very useful. 
Ijed 
I would actually prefer the. In the native values. I can fix that very quickly. 
Yeah 
I thought so. It took me longer to figure out why it was displaying weirdly, and even then not long either so no problem. 
Website Is Ready 
The website is now more or less ready and I included a link on it to TrenchBroom's own homepage. 
Z-buffer Problem 
ok, so last night I changed a value in LinuxCapabilities to force 24bit z-buffer on my laptop and the z-buffer started to work normally.

I was knackered from a long cycle trip, so that's all I did, but next time I get a chance, I'll have a better look at that file and see if I can figure out if I can fix it so that it works without forced value setting. If not, at least I have a build that I can probably use now :) 
Than 
Yup, that's what I suspected. Thanks! 
TrenchBroom 1.0.5 
- Fixed a crash when undoing edge and face move operations.
- Improved map loading speed.
- Improved accuracy of vertex computation.
- Added antialiasing for grid lines (rebb).
- Thin out grid lines after a certain distance (rebb).
- Draw thinner grid lines for small grid sizes.
- Added face shading depending on view direction (rebb).
- Fixed a performance problem when editing face attributes.
- Place initial brush in new maps and make the camera look at it.
- Position pasted objects so that they line up with objects under the mouse cursor.
- Added option to use Alt+MMB to move the camera forward and backward.
- Fixed parsing of color values in FGD files.
- Improved Quake.fgd and Quoth2.fgd.
- Updated and fixed some errors in the documentation. 
 
Cool, you updated your website too with the latest version. You compiled the binaries for me! Yay! 
Alt + Mmb Doesn't Work 
on my machine. I have microsoft sidewinder mouse.

Also was there something wrong with the brush creation / vertex manip on version 1 that the editor now picks up a couple of brushes in my map and deletes them because they're invalid?

Vertex manip seems better, like the shading, no longer have the map loading speed problems I had before, better grid etc.

It's definitely all-round better. 
Fifth 
You must activate Alt+MMB drag in the preferences. It is mainly targeted at Wacom Tablet users though.

Regarding the brushes, send me the map file please so that I can test it. The whole vertices vs. face planes issue is still not quite resolved in TrenchBroom, but I'm working towards it so that these things can happen. That said, maybe I fucked something up, so make sure to open a bug and paste the file there. 
It Still Doesnt Work 
even though I checked the box in preferences, I even updated my mouse drivers.

I'll send you a private link to the map file, it's not quite finished yet (still a ways to go!). 
I Have.. 
emailed you the map file. I'll make a new bug on bithub. 
 
What would be killer would be if ALT+MMB would fly towards whatever the mouse is pointing at instead of just the camera facing direction. That would be really useful. 
You Mean Like 
Alt + C? 
 
What? No.

Have it work just like ALT+MMB does now except instead of moving towards the camera direction it moves towards where my mouse pointer is pointing. 
That Would Be A Different Thing 
The Alt+MMB option is targeted at Wacom users. As I understand it, they don't have a mouse wheel. Maybe what you are suggesting would be useful for the flythrough mode. I'll add it to the issue tracker, maybe there's some way to incorporate it. 
 
It's just something that most of my 3D apps have. It lets you navigate your model very quickly. You just point at what you want to get closer to and zoom. It's a lot faster than trying to aim the camera first.

Just a suggestion! 
Yeah, It Sounds Interesting 
But I'd rather have it work independently of the Alt+MMB thing, as that is merely a replacement for using the mouse wheel to zoom.

Maybe something like Shift+Mousewheel / Shift+Alt+MMB. 
Although 
What exactly does it do? Does it just move the camera position or does it also point the camera to where the mouse points, effectively rotating it? 
 
Here's a quick video of me doing it in Modo:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/161473/Misc/ScreenCapture_3-18-2013%207.36.49%20AM.wmv

The way it works in Modo is:

MouseWheel - Zoom along camera angle
Zoom - Zooms towards the mouse cursor 
 
Actually, never mind my video. This is a WAY better explanation of it, using Blender:

http://cgcookie.com/blender/2010/07/03/tip-zooming-to-the-mouse-cursor/

This is a very tablet friendly option, BTW, as there's less navigation to do. You get where you're going in one zoom as opposed to a camera turn and THEN a zoom. 
Alright 
So it just moves the camera and doesn't rotate it. You're saying it's tablet friendly, so maybe it should be the default for Alt+MMB after all.

Than? 
 
Tablet wise, I think Modo has a well thought out navigation scheme.

Rotate - ALT+LEFT_DRAG
Pan - SHIFT+ALT+LEFT_DRAG
Zoom (to mouse) - CTRL+ALT+LEFT_DRAG

It all hinges on the ALT+LEFT_DRAG with some modifiers thrown in.

Not saying you should do this but it's more to point out how I can totally navigate with a tablet by simplying pressing and dragging the stylus. I don't have to use the pen buttons at all. 
 
And to be clear, I'm not too fussed about TrenchBroom being tablet friendly I was just riffing on what you had said earlier.

I'd never considered using my Cintiq to map for Quake ... hmm ... 
Than Asked For It 
So I guess a preference option to toggle zoom mode would be good. 
Alt Mmb 
I wanted a non-mousewheel way of zooming, since I don't use a mouse at all. I had some wrist strain a few years back and since then just switched to a tablet for almost everything. I also have a Thinkpad laptop which has the nipple pointer and no mousewheel, though I will plug in my wacom if TrenchBroom becomes a bit more stable on Linux (lots of crashing with the clipper and vertex manipulation on my lappy :( )

I'm rather used to Maya 3d navigation, which is similar to Modo I think. I think that is the 3d software standard, pretty much - it's only Blender that has a totally different navigation scheme :)

Worldcraft actually has extremely good and well thought out controls. It separates everything into modes (brush creation mode, entity mode, zoom mode, camera mode, texture application, clipper, vertex/edge edit), but has great controls for each mode and you can hold space to enable camera mode at any time (each mode also has shortcuts). I'm not suggesting you copy it though. 
Worldcraft 
has by far the worst controls IMO. The moded interface is a productivity killer, at least it was for me. My mapping got twice as fast when I switched to Radiant just because I didn't have to switch modes to do anything anymore. </rant>

But about those linux crashes - that is really odd because it shouldn't crash in vertex editing or anything. These things are exactly the same on every platform. Menu crashes I can understand, but the other stuff? Hmm. Spirit also hasn't reported any unstability with the regular editing functions.

Maybe I will have to set up a Mint Linux to try it out. 
 
"crash in vertex editing" in linux? Not sure if that's similar to the issue I experienced with my crappy video card, that I resolved by going into trenchbroom preferences and turning "OpenGL Instancing" to "Forced Off" fixed that crash. 
Well, Bugger Me 
Than, did you try that? What exactly crashes the editor for you? Because I think the clip tool also uses instancing. 
Poor Choice Of Words 
XD 
Instancing 
is set to forced off in the menus. Without it turned off, vertex editing crashes instantly.

The console prints this info at startup:
Renderer info: Mesa DRI Intel(R) 965GM x86/MMX/SSE2 version 2.1 Mesa 9.0.2 from Intel Open Source Technology Center
Depth buffer bits: 24
Multisampling disabled
OpenGL instancing disabled

I just tried again and this time there was no crash, but after clipping I couldn't seem to creat a brush. I could go into vertex edit mode though 
 
*obligatory snide comment about Intel's integrated graphics* 
 
Yah, same here. Intel HD Graphics 3000 video card.

SleepwalkR knows they are shitty. :) 
 
The new ones aren't as bad though. 
 
It made me bring out my old tower and send it in for repairs, because that's my gaming tower. it's from August-2011, but power button suddenly stopped working aroung August-2012, and I just let the tower sit there for months.

But, I want to try trenchbroom without issues, so, TB is what pushed me to pull this tower out and send it in for repairs. It has decent gaming video card in it.

I'm on my laptop, in the meantime. Which has been fun, because I've gotten a nice feel of remote computing now, and bring my laptop to my couch, or to my stand-up desk. Nice to be able to simply move it where ever I want, including my patio outside. 
Dq Who Cares? 
 
 
mfx, I don't care that you don't care. Who cares that you don't care? 
Har 
Whoever is more on topic wins. 
 
mfx - You misspelled "Cool story, bro". 
 
mfx, and Willem are on my shitlist now. grats, guys. One less person to respond/comment to anything you have to say, or any screenshots you post, or whatever. Less work for me. :)

"Who cares?"

Well, since the story was about TrenchBroom, then I think SleepwalkR would find it a nice bit to hear that his editor pushed me to fix my tower to try his editor. Maybe.

You sound like a bunch of jealous girls that have no such stories to share. Not my problem, that's your problem. Bye. :) 
 
You're just barely holding this new persona together dude. Best of luck. 
It's Like Before 
But this time he's shitting up the whole forum instead of just this thread! :D 
 
What was once one slightly boring post in a previously interesting thread is now eight very boring posts. Actually, now it's nine because of me.

I like TrenchBroom because it's cool. 
 
Nope. Just you, Willem, and mfx. Everyone else is fine. But, you two, yes, you two have already had your 5 strikes. Yes, 5 strikes, not 3 strikes. I gave you 5, and you've used them up already, here and in other threads. 5 strikes; that's how much patience I gave.

Good day. 
Deqer 
1. please read this carefully:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superiority_complex
2. calm down already.
3. stop posting irrelevant bollox in this sacred thread. 
 
Nope. Just you, Willem, and mfx. Everyone else is fine. But, you two, yes, you two have already had your 5 strikes. Yes, 5 strikes, not 3 strikes. I gave you 5, and you've used them up already, here and in other threads. 5 strikes; that's how much patience I gave.

http://cdn.crushable.com/files/2012/07/jlaw-okay.gif 
 
Could find func_detail in trenchbroom...
func_detail seems to be not included.

Has someone a working Quake.fgd with func_detail support for trenchbroom? 
 
The included .fgd has func_detail, but it is commented out since only Tyrann's compilers support it. Just search your .fgd for 'func_detail', and removed the // from the beginning of that line (func_group is defined and commented out too). 
 
The included .fgd has func_detail, but it is commented out since only Tyrann's compilers support it.

Not exactly  
Sorry 
I meant, only 'fancy new compilers made by incredibly talented young men' support it 
Less Than Three 
Why is there no heart icon :( 
 
mmh - the result is not that what i expected.
uncommented the func_detail, made a boxed "testchamper", placed some irregular/complex brushes in it and compiled with tyrann's tools = still got a messed up (highly splitt/weirdly triangled) bsp (r_showtris 1)
Vis may have been faster..
Maybe i'm betting on the wrong horse. :-)
How do i prevent irregular brushes to splitt the bsp then? i thought func_detail would be the right way.
Func_wall 'em? enlight me. 
 
In Quake, detail brushes only speed up the vis process. Apart from that, they are treated like normal world geometry. If you want to avoid splitting, you'll have to make it a func_wall. 
 
Thanx.
Seems that my hl and q3 based memory tricked me.
i stopped mapping for ages, restarted with trenchbroom 'caused it feels nice to work with.
Great job btw. Love it. 
 
I'm noobish and ignorant, but is there any reason to not simply use func wall for details like that? 
 
func_wall can't cast shadows, for one. 
Spiney 
func_walls are entities and come with several issues. like OTP said, no shadows. Also, stock engines have limitations on edicts and models present in a bsp, so using lots of them (or in a larger map) can lead to needing to perform balancing acts if you want to stay under those limits.

func_details are not actually entities, despite being used like them in an editor. They are world geometry, and cut the world geometry as normal, but are not considered while calculating the PVS. 
Func_wall Shadows 
Grab the latest utils snapshot here for func_wall shadow support. Check the light.txt file for details. 
Btw 
This supports shadows for any brush entity, not just func_wall. 
Wait 
whoa o_O 
That's Pretty Cool 
 
New Key Question 
Having the _shadow and _selfshadow keys to make the features opt-in makes a lot of sense - because the compiler can't tell if the entity class is meant to be static, to slide or to rotate (well, it might have some hints about rotation but still). But how would people feel about fgd/def files which add the keys by default - for example to add "_shadow 1" to newly created func_wall, and "_selfshadow 1" to func_train? 
 
Do it. Other compilers will just ignore it but you will probably want it on more often than not. 
Agree 
Those at intermediate level will know how to disable it.

Last thing about func_wall - they only draw if vis believes the player can see them, so if they stretch through several leafs then they will go invisible in stock engines, depending on where you're stood. 
Before 
tyrann's guns blazing tools comeback, this was how we resolved vistimes in rmq. 
No No And NNOO!! 
Quake Posted by ID SOFTWARE 
Error. 
The Player Models Levels Editor Not Responing... 52000 Years Louth 
Go Home Vondur, You're Drunk 
Looks like a bot, better spam block it. 
One Of These Days 
I'll use detail brushes to relight RMQ demo 2. And then everything that should cast shadows will cast shadows. Had to resort to func_walls at the last minute to make vis time go from quad-core-melting to fast enough for the deadline. :-( It still bugs me because I know what it used to look like. 
New Mouse 
I bought a new Microsoft Arc Mouse as my Sidewinder one had died after 5 years loyal service. The editor is practically unusable with this mouse, infact the mouse is practically unusable with anything, the scroll wheel control doesn't work properly with it (infinite scrolling nightmares!). Hand hurt after 30 minutes usage too, never buy one! 
 
the logitech mx510/518s are really great mice. good shape and size, fits in your hand. they've been around for ages now. 
 
necros speaks truth. My back/shoulder/arm are ... to put it mildly, fucked up ... and those mice are still a joy to use. Good hand fit, lightweight, responsive. 
Logitech Mice 
I have seen a lot of love for logitech mice but every time I have bought one it breaks or goes a bit crazy after only a few months. I tried a few at the computer store and I think I'm going to grab either a Razor Abyssus Mirror, CM Storm Recon, or Razer Deathadder... I put my hand on those and they're more like my old sidewinder. I think maybe my hand is so used to a big mouse that I can't go to a small sleek one (I wanted the arc for portability for when I grab a Surface Pro) 
 
that's odd. I have two mx510s, and only got the second because the first one had all the paint worn off-- it still works perfectly.

maybe you just had bad luck? 
 
No doubt it's bad luck but it's now become a bit of a superstition for me to avoid logitech mice (though I checked the website for the store and they don't have either of those models in anyway :P). I like the build quality of MS mice in general so me buying any other brand is a big deviation really. Anyway, cheers for the advice :P 
 
Logitech gives great guarantee and generous customer service. at least in Germany. I love their mice, best available. 
My Last 3 Logitec Mice Lasted Little Over A Year. 
And they'll be my last.

Planned obsolescence is rampant in peripherals.
I also quit buying anything Sony, Phillips and Apple since those are terrible in that regard. The nerve some of these companies have in selling overpriced garbage... wish everyone would quit buying from such brands that so they could shove their fecal business models down their buttholes.

I bought a Razer Abyssus now, hopefully that one will last a bit longer. 
 
Every Logitech mouse I've owned has been a tank that will not quit. Not sure what you guys are doing wrong. :P 
 
They used to be good for me. Maybe it's because I don't buy the 80+ bucks ones. *shrug* 
Hell, I Don't Even Know Which Model It Is... 
...but this little logitech I'm handling(no fancy stuff, a very basic one) is with me at least since 2005... 
 
mx500 for ~5 years, didn't break, just got disgusting over time. now a 518 for 3 years with no problems. 
Wireless Performance MX 
First wireless mouse I have bought, and it's very nice. Eats up the batteries, but I have eneloops and a smart charger, so I don't care. 
Logitech... 
so I tried out the mice above in the store and then I caught a glimpse of a G400 logitech mouse in another part of the store, played with it for a bit and decided to buy it despite my poor experiences in the past (which were admittedly a long time ago). 
 
I bought a Logitech M100 a couple of years ago, it works so well I got a second one last month for my other computer - $10 at Walmart :) 
Shift+click To Use Textures 
I don't know if this was an intended change but I liked in the previous versions that I could shift+click a surface to copy the texture and then make a brush with it. For some reason this no longer works! 
Entity Arguments 
Okay, so in Quark if I made something like a trigger_push under the entity tab Quark would already have things like direction and force put in so you just had to add in the numbers/names you wanted there. Is it possible to have that added to Trench Broom? I think it's very helpful for first time and casual mappers who don't know or can't always remember the arguments for these things. 
Entity Arguments 
Okay, so in Quark if I made something like a trigger_push under the entity tab Quark would already have things like direction and force put in so you just had to add in the numbers/names you wanted there. Is it possible to have that added to Trench Broom? I think it's very helpful for first time and casual mappers who don't know or can't always remember the arguments for these things. 
 
fuck 
Ranger 
It's not possible right now, but it's on my todo list. 
FifthElephant 
Oops - it will be back in 1.0.6 
Back-culled Vertex Edit 
Is it possible to make it so that when you vertex edit an object that the vertices on the back faces are not shown? The reason being that editing something like this is a terrifying nightmare!

http://s9.postimg.org/k0u8koezj/vertexhell.jpg 
Hmm 
Thing is, in many situations it's useful to see the back vertices too. I'll add this as a feature request. 
No Doubt, 
but as you can see in instances where you are editing terrain/rock I think it's best that all the back faces are actually flush. I really believe this is why I was getting bsp holes and HOM problems, I'm trying not to touch the back faces this time. 
Back Vertices 
yeah i did think that when watching daz's video. it is useful to see them sometimes but i imagine some kind of toggle would be handy 
SleepwalkR 
would it be doable to add Blender-style Extrude and Loop Cut tools to a brush based map editor?

I was using Blender a lot recently and I thought, gosh, if I had this in a map editor... it would accelerate the workflow a lot. 
 
If somebody ever invents that fabled "take my model file and break it down into convex chunks automatically" routine I would live in Modo for Quake mapping. Would be spectacular... 
 
that would be even better, yeah. Extrude and loop cut might be doable though, although any shape that resulted in an invalid brush would have to be split off at the new edge loop automatically...

Alternatively, one could make q3map2 spit out Quake 1 BSP files, so we could map in a modeling suite and just assemble the map from static meshes... just need a compiler that bakes static meshes into the BSP. 
FifthElephant, Rj 
As I said, I have opened a feature request for this. 
Gb 
I don't know what these features do. Can you show me? 
 
The trouble is both edge loops and extrudes are going to be problematic in TB since it optimizes the brush into planes after each operation. So you'll insert the loop and TB will optimize it away immediately afterwards. :P I think, anyway... 
SW, 
Yeah I know, I was just theorising out loud as to why my terrain may have caused holes before. The way I have done the terrain still isn't perfect though. 
 
Loop cut adds an edge loop, which creates new polygons. It is very useful to create subdivisions in a mesh where you want them, to give you new geometry to sculpt. Like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4U-gvw2E4w

Note how the cut is semi-intelligent - you move it around the mesh and it shows you where it *would* make the cut if you were to apply it now.

You can easily place a lot of new verts / faces into your mesh with this tool and then extrude the new faces etc.

Extrude basically duplicates a face and allows you to "pull it out" of the mesh, adding geometry to that area of the mesh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLSiHd9f1PA 
 
actually, extrude doesn't duplicate the extruded face - brainfart on my part. It creates new faces when the extruded face is pulled out. 
Gb 
Ok I'll not this for a later release. 
"Brainfart On My Part" 
It's got a certain poetic, romantic flavour. Most exquisite rhyming couplet... (sips tea) 
MSVCP100.dll 
I'm getting same problem as FifthElephant, on a different box.

This file is missing, and says to try re-installing the program--even though it was never installed to begin with; it was extracted from a zip.

I'm on windows7 x64.

I installed the vcredist_x64.exe, but I still get this error message.

using nvidia geforce gts450, latest drivers.

there is TrenchBroom.log file, but it was not updated with any information for today, probably because the program doesn't even have a chance to open up, because i immediately get this windows prompt window error message of this missing dll file. 
Tb Is 32bit 
So maybe you need to install a 32bit version of the redistributable? 
Edgeloop /extrude 
edgeloop = clip tool
and since brushes are convex volumnes defined by planes, you wont ever have ability to freely create new edges like in polygonal modelling

extrude = clone+drag for planar faces

for non-planar its not that simple
and actually this could be doable new editor feature: draw new brush based on a selected face and normal 
Split Edgeloop = Clip Tool That Keeps Both Halves 
which could be a very feature useful to have.

eg. boxing out rooms and the using the clip tool to cut out the doors. Just do 3 quick splits and remove the unwanted brush. Do another split above the door for instant trim... Could allow for speedy mapping in combination with csg-hollow.

Implementation could be hitting shift+return instead of just return. Or something among those lines. 
Decided To Re-read The Docs... 
Okay, tab works like magic. Lol.
Think I'm gonna use that a lot.

/noob 
Deqer 
I don't remember getting that error, mine has been working for a month. I do remember that I had to update my graphics card drivers to the latest version to solve the problem I had. (I was using a fresh out-the-box install of Windows 8) 
Extrude 
 
Yeah, FifthElephant, it was one of the first 25 posts of this thread. Google remembers.

SleepwalkR, yah, vcredist_x86.exe works now.

Spiney, now I know you didn't watch my trenchbroom video on clip. :)

---

Extrude could be powerful, and therefore seems worth it for the programmer to make it. However, I disagree with edge loop.

EdgeLoop though seems like a feature for lazy people that couldn't just simply just press C and clip several times, therefore wouldn't be worth it to the programmer to make this.

Also, it's probably not often you'd use this feature anyways.

But since Clip already exists, then I suppose it would be somewhat easy for the programmer to take that and make an EdgeLooping function. 
 
Edgeloops don't split the brush - they add an edge loop. Don't call people lazy when you don't even understand what's being proposed. 
I Still Don't Understand It Either 
What exactly is it? Is there a video somewhere? 
 
This covers the Max version pretty well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rJdMLmQRiE

It's a standard modeling tool. I'm not saying it's something that TB needs but I took issue with it being called the same thing as a clip. It isn't. :) 
 
In a world of quake bushes it is essentially a clip tool. The edges are planes intersections, you cant have overlapping planes of the same brush. 
 
This is why I said that it wouldn't work in TB as it's currently coded because the added edgeloop would be optimized away the frame after it was created. The only way edgeloops are useful is if TB will leave the brush alone until some point when the user "commits" the change.

It's probably more work than it's worth, to be honest.

But it's not a clip tool. :) 
Edgeloop Only Works With Quads 
And yes clipping is different, but it serves the same practical purpose. 
Edge Turning 
flipping edges would be interesting, but i'm not sure how that could be done in TB since each brush exists on it's own independently of it's neighbours. 
What Is Edge Turning 
You guys have to remember that I'm not familiar with any 3D modeling package ;-) 
 
Basically, if you have a quad broken into 2 triangles, edge turning turns the quad so the triangles from the other corners.

So

|/| becomes |\|

Useful for correcting shading and lighting errors on 3D stuff. 
Thanks 
Since TB merges coplanar faces automatically, it doesn't seem to be useful. 
Sleepwalker 
@ the extrude image: Yeah, that was about what I meant. Pull the new brush out along the face normal. Usually followed by moving the "new" vertices to where one wants them, then extruding again (typically used for quickly blocking out shapes, like for example curves).

Edge loop is clip:

Not quite. In terms of brushes, it would do much the same thing, but clip isn't as user friendly or intelligent.

If you can make the clip tool able to do multiple parallel clips in one go, and intelligently choose the clipping plane according to the position of the mouse cursor and keep all the new brushes after the clipping, and let you slide the clipping plane(s) along the brush with the mouse, then it might get close.

slapmap: Anything that speeds up the workflow is a good idea, IMO.

It's up to Sleepwalker if he considers any of this useful, of course.

Regarding edge turning, it would probably also give the mapper some control over which way the quads are split in the BSP process. For outlying terrain at least. Smooth triangle strips, all tris going the same direction, render faster, afaik. But then, inside a complex map, this wouldn't be enough to control the splitting, of course. Now if you had triangle terrain and you turned it into detail brushes, then you might be able to influence the splitting. 
840 + 841 
Sorry, yes it's what Willem said, however, there is an application for it in TB.

You have 2 brushes with 2 adjacent 3 sided faces forming a 4 sided surface. The 2 3 sided faces are not coplanar.
You want to change the split between the two brushes while preserving the position of the vertices: http://necros.fov120.com/temp/trenchbroom/edgeTurning.jpg 
Edge Turning 
I think this would be useful on a terrain mesh. Using it would flip the dividing edge between two triangular brushes, which allows you to smooth out surface geometry of a terrain without adding more tris, but simply by optimising the flow of the edges in the mesh.

http://openmesh.org/Documentation/OpenMesh-2.0.1-Documentation/mesh.flip.png

I often do this manually when modifying terrain in Worldcraft. Terrain is about the only place I think I would use it though. 
 
yeah, it's of somewhat limited use, but where it is useful (terrain), it's powerful.

so it's kind of a toss up really. 
+1 Flip Edge 
I would definitely like edge flipping. I used in WC also, I can think of more applications than just terrain (though admittedly this is the primary function). 
Someone Create A Feature Request ;-) 
TB, the clip tool is already pretty smart at choosing a clip plane even if you have only one clip point. And you can split brushes with it, that is, keep both sides. 
Clip Tool 
Is really good actually, I didn't even use 3 point clipping at first because I never really used it in WC but I'm getting into a good work flow now. 
 
Yep, clip tool is nice. Clip, clip, and you already have a 4-piece/piece of terrain. Duplicate, duplicate, etc. and you have land of terrain. Drag edge/vertices, and wallah!

FEATURE REQUEST:
For light entities, draw a faint lined circle around the entity in the 3d viewer. The circle is as big as the "light" setting of the light entity. If light = 300, then circle is that big. These circles can be turned on or off.

---

SIDE NOTE:
Double check that the entity panel has the stuff in it from the .fgd or .def file. You know, it shows the description and the available keys for you to use, for that particular entity you're creating. 
I Have To Admit 
That would be a nice feature. Even nicer feature - light simulation. 
 
To add to deqer's idea, having the color/intensity of the light show in the center. 
Good Idea, 
Light value visualized by circlesize or just the digit + color.
Only if selected..
And light simulation, what a candy that would be! 
 
'visualization spheres' or whatever are rarely that useful in all the editor's I've used them in. I think the devtime making these should be work toward a proper 'lighted preview mode', with the spheres used in the interm, and as the basis for doing the shading.

To do spheres right, you are going need to implement detecting all the different 'delay' and 'wait' settings. And spotlight cones. I feel if you're going to do all that, it should be on the road to shaded preview. 
Scampie 
you´re probably right, since one cant tell surely the amount or value of light by the size of a sphere.
Shaded preview therefore seems the better approach, and the more elegant either. 
Oh Man 
a good 'lighted preview' mode would be amazing. 
 
Not sure if it's possible, but maybe the programmer can use a pre-made script that already does live rendering of lighting when adding lights, similar to the editors used for Quake4/Doom3.

According to this page: http://icculus.org/gtkradiant/developers.html#gamepacks the GTK Radiant 1.5 release was the editor used for those games.

It's open source, so, if it's the same as TrenchBroom, maybe you can grab the code from there?

Basically, soon as you add your first light, the entire map turns black, because now it's live rendering lights, and only light is shown on the walls from the lights in your map.

Anyways, definitely would be candy. Probably too much to ask for. 
Mmm 
It seems like alot of work, but pre-baking the lightmaps to brush faces seems doable no? The source to Light.exe is available, I'm sure it's not so simple, but isn't it possible to adapt it to bake lightmaps to brush faces instead of a completed bsp?
Would be pretty nice, you could pre-bake your whole map (would be longer than light maybe, since no faces are culled at that point), and then maybe have options to only bake selected lights/brushes to update pieces you're working on...

But yeah, I'm sure it's not a simple feature to implement. 
 
Iirc realtime lighting preview IS a far goal for TB. 
It Will Probably 
be just an approximation of Quake's lighting model implemented as a shader. I don't think it's feasible to compute the lightmaps using light's code. But I will surely look at the code so that I can approximate it as closely as possible. 
Light Compilers And TB 
I'm not sure it will accurately reflect whatever lighting compiler you use, I've noticed that the wait and delay keys attached to lights can produce quite different results depending on the compiler you use. It probably shouldn't but with people adding different features to compilers it is probably going to get more pronounced over time (and may render this feature into more of a vague guide than an accurate way to light a map). 
Exactly. 
It's just an approximation. 
 
"Light spheres" are in radiant and yeah, inaccurate and not that useful, except for showing the inner radius for square falloff.

Sidenote: oh my, so many radiants already, even improved D3 one! 
 
Yes. I never found Radiant's Light Radii very useful. Quest had a nice lighting preview. Standard fall off only, but enough to get a basic overview. Of course, it was slow as hell since there was no hardware rendering. Perhaps a peak at the Quest source can give the programmer an idea of how to (or how not to?) approach this. 
I See... 
but being able to see light color/intensity would still be handy :) 
Can't Load Quake 1 Map Sources 
Referring to post 685 from someone else, I still can't load the quake 1 map sources. I originally had 1.04, now I have the latest 1.05 and it gives me a generic error when I try to open the John Romero Quake map sources from planetquake. 
TrenchBroom Won't Load ReadOnly Maps. 
It's because John Romero marked all the map files as "Read Only" before zipping them all up. Not sure why.

Right-click the map(s) and go to properties and uncheck "Read Only", and click Apply. 
Next Version Will Work Fine 
But right now, do as deqer says. 
 
FEATURE REQUEST:
I personally would like to have the textures CLIP, and TRIGGER be 50% transparent when displayed in 3D view on brushes.

I also would like the option to turn on 50% transparency for all textures that begin with "*" which are mostly water textures.

I'm strictly vanilla Quake; and in Vanilla, water was not transparent. Therefore, I think it should be an option in the Preferences, and the default be OFF.

---

I also, I really like that idea on your github about linking entities with the target/targetname, and targetname2, etc. stuff. 
Deqer 
You don't need to post here AND on the feature tracker. I see everything you post there, so I won't miss it ;-)

Regarding the feature request, that was already requested by rebb, and I have moved it up to the 1.2 release. Might even move it up to 1.1.

The target links feature is partly done, but needs to be integrated by me. Might move this up to 1.1 too. 
Will It Work? 
Will it work for Quake 2/Q3A? While I'm not 100% convinced about original quake modding, I'm all for modding second installment (superior story-wise and gameplay-wise to any Quake game, including Q4) or multiplayer entry for the series.

I'd like to know also if it would work for any open source games that uses quake engine (Tremoluos, etc.).

I've tried to learn Radiant editor and other "2D" ones, but they don't talk to me, this one does. 
Other Game Support 
Q2 and Q3 are on my todo list, but it will take a while. Support of other games that use idTech depends mostly on whether there is someone advocating it and helping out. 
Other Game Support 
will mean I will probably never leave my house or computer ever again... This is not the best idea. 
TrenchBroom 1.0.6 
Changes
- New text rendering system (faster and fewer glitches)
- Brush drawing now more accurate (see docs)
- Option to use integer plane point coordinates
- Recompute vertices after every change to brush geometry
- Major lines of the grid are rendered thicker
- Read write protected map files
- Don't crash when trying to save a write protected file
- Internal Worldspawn properties set to read only
- Fix 3D view focus issues on Windows
- Drop invalid brushes in parser instead of crashing
- Always autosave (don't wait until the map is changed)
- Keep more autosaves and save only every 10 minutes
- Don't show rotation decorators for invisible entities
- Documentation updates and fixes

Download here: http://goo.gl/0eL9u 
 
1.0.6 is looking good so far, but, is anyone else having a problem with the Face browser not showing any textures? I loaded same map as before--which worked before--and I can't see any textures in Face panel. Says "n/a" for preview image too.

1.0.5 shows the textures in Face browser. 
Deqer 
Yeah I see the same thing. Odd that none of the testers saw that - or maybe it creeped in last minute. Will fix asap. Sorry. 
TrenchBroom 1.0.7 
Who let this amateur use a computer? 
Get It Here 
Nice. 
Very nice so far. The text is much clearer on my desktop box (with nVidia GTS450 card) in the textures browser, and the all text works on my laptop now(with Intel Graphics 3000), and very crisp/smooth/clear. 
Thank You 
Thank you post 866 from Deqer, that was the problem and your solution fixed it. 
Ver. 1.07 Bug 
Seems 1.05 will open Quake 1 Map sources but 1.07 won't? 
VoreGoddess 
It works for me, which file did you try? 
Start.bsp 
Weird it opens the other maps but not start.map. I tried shutting down background processes to make sure it wasn't lingering around somewhere in an old editor. 
Sometimes Maps Open With Camera Pointing Away From The Geometry. 
Focus on the 3D view, and hold ALT and Right-click drag your mouse to look around with the camera, and eventually you see the brushes show up.

I'm able to open start.map with 1.07.

VoreGoddess, what does the console say in TrenchBroom? Any errors? Does editor crash? You can ignore the gfx/start.wad error message. 
I Should Check This Out Some Time... 
But I'm at the vinegar-strokes stage of this map now so I'll probably try it afterwards. 
 
"Sometimes Maps Open With Camera Pointing Away From The Geometry."

If that's the case, a common practice in other editors is to drop the camera at the info_playerstart position ... 
I Changed It 
so that the camera is outside the map, pointing at it, and zoomed out so far that the entire map is visible in the 3D view. 
Rotate Tool 
seems to be acting weird in version 1.07... every time I try and hover over the grabby-thing (dunno what they're called) they disappear, and when I move my cursor away they reappear. It's like the editor is trolling me! 
Grid Lines 
also I really dislike the "major grid lines" always showing, I find them really distracting plus it makes using smaller grids unusable IMO. 
Fifth 
Will look into it. 
 
Just want to say that for any feature that is requested to be removed, or hinted towards the idea of being removed, that I'd like to recommend that it not be completely removed, but rather add it as an option in Preferences that can be enabled/disabled.

I realize that this may sound like a redundant statement. But, I've never said it before, and just wanted to say it now. Now that I have, I'll never say it again.

I've not played with 1.07 yet, because been busy catching up certain things in life. But, I'm sure I will have a use for the 'major grid lines' feature, once I find time to start mapping again. 
 
Features are removed for a reason. Adding a checkbox just clutters up the code base. IMO... 
Agreed 
however I think having really thick distracting grid lines that don't scale down with smaller grid sizes is a hindrance. Besides, I made a map perfectly fine without this feature, I can't think of an instance where I would have needed it. 
Feature Request... 
Is it possible that when you make a brush entity and you decide to change it from one type to another that it retains all the values and keys if possible? 
Fifth 
Could you please post the feature requests and bugs to the issue tracker? 
SW 
Sorry dude I keep forgetting (mostly because I haven't bookmarked it)... I'll try to remember in future. (I see you've already posted them there?) 
Not The Last One. 
 
 
I'm just saying, don't remove a feature simply because 1 person cries about it; regardless that he/she was able to map without it.

I want the major gridlines, therefore leave the feature intact and put an option for it in the Preferences to disable it.

There's a reason this feature exists, and a reason it exists in other 3D programs as well. So, don't remove it just because 1 person cries about it.

Thanks. 
 
Sure, that's a different situation. 
I Won't Remove It 
I'll just make it so that it works better at small grid sizes. 
Deqer 
I'm not crying about it, I gave valid reasons as to why I thought it wasn't necessary to have them. Can you stop being a prima donna? Thanks. 
 
Guys, please. Just let it go. 
Mexican Soap Opera 
 
 
Does someone have a Linux x86 build they'd be willing to share? 
 
I am on 64 bit but if it is easy to crosscompile I could do one for you. 
Gb 
You can try this: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7009168/TrenchBroom.tar.gz

It was built on Ubuntu 12.04 32bit. You can unpack it to /opt so that the executable is at /opt/TrenchBroom/TrenchBroom. You can then just copy the .desktop file to ~/.local/share/applications/

If you don't put it into /opt, you'll need to adapt the paths in the desktop file. Let me know if it works! 
One More Thing 
TB uses the ALT key for some things such as moving objects vertically. This collides with some window managers, and you might have to disable the ALT key for your window manager. I have rebound it to the windows key on my machine. See this for Ubuntu: http://askubuntu.com/questions/80623/how-to-disable-altclick-from-moving-windows-in-unity-2d 
 
Thanks, I will try this tomorrow.

By the way, I found the difference between Hexen 2 and Quake .map formats. It is downright trivial. The other things that would need doing are a Hexen 2 .ent file, which I could provide, and perhaps support for the H2 palette. The wad format seems to be the same. Hexen 2 .mdl is slightly different, but of course bounding boxes would do. I'm working on H2 related tools coding at the moment. I have AguirRe's light mostly working. The change is trivial as well. QBSP changes are only slightly more involved. Hexen 2 has more hulls.

The .map file change is indeed so trivial that any Quake 1 .map file can easily be converted to Hexen 2 format by just some search and replace. 
I Know 
But what does the extra face attribute mean? No one seems to know. Also, can you say what the differences in the mdl format are? 
@SleepwalkR 
The qbsp code refers to it as 'Light'. It copies it around, but doesn't actually do anything with it. I assume they were going to use it for radiance but never actually did, So writing out a dummy value of -1 should be fine.

The mission pack uses a different mdl format, but the core game merely uses q1mdl with additional flags (stick to the 'data1' directory and avoid 'portals' and you should be fine)... 
Re: Extra Face Attribute 
But what does the extra face attribute mean? No one seems to know.
Look at the bsp5.h and map.h headers of hexen2 utils: it is Light. face_t struct has Light as its last member as a 32 bit integer. mbrush_t struct has Light as a 32 bit integer as its last member. 
Thanks 
So it's unused? 
@SleepwalkR 
So it's unused?
Right, not used in the end. When the face structure is translated from map to compiled bsp, it is not used, because the dface_t structure (bspfile.h) is the same between q1 and h2. However, an h2 map must have that token in order to be parsed correctly and compiled. 
Alright 
Thanks for clearing that up. 
TrenchBroom 1.0.8 
- Fix the rotation tool
- Allow snapping faces to the grid when resizing brushes
- Improved major grid line shading (rebb)
- Fixed umlauts in About dialog

Downloads: http://goo.gl/0eL9u 
W00t... 
fixed rotation tool!

time to upgrade! 
Tutorial Videos... 
May be coming soonish btw. Meeting up with my friend on Thursday to do a few test runs (and hopefully to properly film some stuff)... 
Rotation Tool.. 
is still acting a little weird, upon selecting entities the rotation tool seems to centre on the last brush that was selected rather than the entity itself. It's better than before of course, but not as good as the original implementation. 
Open A Bug Please 
 
Sure Thing... 
where's the feature request bit btw? 
TrenchBroom 1.0.9 
- Fix the rotation tool handle position

Download: http://goo.gl/0eL9u 
Dude... 
You need to find a place to mirror this thing, 19kb/s download speed is a little too "nostalgic" for my tastes. ;) 
Not A Problem Of This Server 
Or it's a fluke, but most probably it's just a temporary thing. 
SleepwalkR 
The binary produces the following error on my Ubuntu 12.04 32 bit:

jonas@gjallarbru:/opt/TrenchBroom$ ./TrenchBroom
../src/unix/glx11.cpp(87): assert "xid" failed in SetCurrent(): window must be shown

(TrenchBroom:28246): Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_window_resize: assertion `width > 0' failed
Segmentfejl

I have wxwindows 2.8.12. There is something about this error in the wxwidgets forum here:

http://forums.wxwidgets.org/viewtopic.php?t=29948&p=128726

I'm almost curious enough to compile it myself now. :-s 
 
wxwindows... wxwidgets of course. 
 
I compiled my own debug binary of TB now. Same error.

Some thoughts:

Why does the Linux Build.txt instruct us to compile our own version of WxWidgets (twice)?

Also, and I found this interesting -- have you ever tried running Linux TB through Valgrind? The output is remarkable. 
Gb 
I have seen that error before, but mostly on virtual machines. It is related to a hidden window that I use to set up some shared resources for the renderer(s). What card / driver are you using?

TrenchBroom requires wxWidgets 2.9.4. 2.8 doesn't work. Since there's no official package repository yet for 2.9.4, you need to compile it yourself.

I haven't rund TB through Valgrind because I didn't want to drown in a sea of false positives. TB uses a custom allocator for many classes that speeds up memory allocation a lot, but this leads to false positives. I know from inspecting that TB doesn't have big memory leaks. In fact, I couldn't find a single leak in the current build. 
That's Not To Say 
that it doesn't have leaks. I'm sure it does - just no biggies as far as I can say. I'll run it through VG anyway.

Also, "the output is remarkable" - how you just tell me what you see instead of making me guess ;-) 
How About 
jesses 
And Finally 
Can you be more specific when you say "run through Valgrind"? Which tests did you run? 
 
I just ran the standard test - mainly because I wanted to see if it came up with more info about the error message. I was a bit amazed at the sheer amount of output and the final error count it reported. If you say most of that is false positives, I'll take your word for it but it looked pretty crass.

The wxwidgets compile is pretty lengthy and, especially since we're instructed to do it twice, acts as a bit of a hurdle if someone just wants to try the editor. 2.8.12 is reported to be the official stable version so I wondered if using the dev version is strictly necessary. Apparently it is.

I use a Geforce 6 series card with Nvidia blob 304.64. 
Hmm 
What's the "standard test"? Valgrind typically reports lots and lots of problems. If it was a memory leak test, there will be many false positives, yeah. If it was a cache grind test, then it will moan a lot too because TB's codebase is not optimized for such things (it's just not necessary).

TB requires wxWidgets 2.9 because that has much better support for Mac OS X.

I'll see what I can do about the error message. 
Hmm 2 
The current build runs on my machine, which also has an NVidia card (it's a MacBook Pro). I'm also running Ubuntu 12.04 with the "version current" NVidia driver. How do I find out which version of the driver I am running? 
Valgrind 
How exactly did you run Valgrind? From Code::Blocks? 
 
In the Nvidia control panel, accessible from the systems submenu (not sure what it is in English), you can find your driver version. I got mine from the Nvidia site, after something necessitated a driver upgrade, instead of it being the default-provided Ubuntu driver.

I simply ran valgrind ./TrenchBroom. So it would have been the memory check.

Granted, a lot of it probably is from wxwidgets or GTK, too. 
Or From The Fact That It Crashes 
 
 
It crashes with 4K errors? 
The Crash 
has nothing to do with what Valgrind is reporting. I have looked at it, and most of the errors are within the libraries. It reports quite a bit of errors related to uninitialized variables, but these are usually due to how OpenGL works:

GLint textureId;
glGenTextures(&textureId, 1);

Valgrind will moan about this, but it's not actually in error. It's an easy fix to shut VG up, though:

GLint textureId = 0;
glGenTextures(&textureId, 1);

In any case - Valgrind won't help you finding the problem that you're seeing. That's not really a programming error but a flaw in how I set up the OpenGL context. I'll have to find a different way. 
Valgrind 
LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT=1
should remove all false positives associated with opengl dma use.
which should actually make valgrind usable with such programs. 
TB Tutorial Vids... 
just finished up recording the first in a series of TB tutorial videos (yes, you get to hear my basso gravelly northern english accent)... They're not properly finished yet (needs a bunch of tweaks etc) but suffice to say me and my friend had fun making them and definitely want to continue making them.
These are starting off at the lowest-entry point, intermediate and advanced mappers need not apply, literally the first vid is about installing quake, getting wads, downloading software etc and then working up to "my first room". 
Cool 
Looking forward to seeing them! 
Where Are You 5th? 
I'm in't Penrith. 
Ahh 
I'm not as north as you are, I'll give you one clue though...

"garlic bread is the future, I've tasted it!" 
Bolton Eh? 
Garlic....... BREAD?!?! 
Yep... My next map is a caravan for me mam. 
Gb 
Can you try running TB from code blocks in the debugger? Strangely, it works for me that way on my VM. 
 
I have no idea how to do that, I'm not familiar with Codeblocks at all (nor with other IDEs, I use vim). 
Nevermind Then 
 
Gb 
Please update the sources and recompile, then run the editor (not from the IDE). It may fail on the first try, but it should work the second time. I have no idea why this is happening, but at least it now works on my VM and my MacBook Pro in Ubuntu 12.04. 
SleepwalkR 
I did that. After that suggestion, I got it running on the third try. I experimented with this some more, and it seems to be random if it runs or crashes. But when I try enough times, I can get it to run.

It seems to crash when I press "V". This can be reproduced; this is the message:

(TrenchBroom:16513): Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_window_resize: assertion `width > 0' failed
TrenchBroom: /home/jonas/TrenchBroom/Source/Renderer/Shader/ShaderProgram.cpp:155: bool TrenchBroom::Renderer::ShaderProgram::setUniformVariable(const String&, const TrenchBroom::Math::Vec3f&): Assertion `checkActive()' failed.
Afbrudt (SIGABRT)


Under "View -> Grid" I can select all grid sizes with the mouse at the same time (so they are all shown as toggled on with a hook in front).

When I click on "Snap to Grid", the 1 unit grid is displayed no matter what grid size I have selected.

Is there a key combo to snap a brush to the currently selected grid size? Shift-Ctrl-G doesn't do it and I can find nothing else in the Preferences.

Movement with WASD is jerky, there is a delay between button press and reaction and sometimes a stuttering effect to it. Rotating the camera stutters also. It won't accept multiple button inputs (eg W and A) at the same time (does nothing in such a case). I've tried all the different OpenGL Instancing settings.

Those are my initial findings, I'll give it some more time. 
 
I managed to enter vertex mode once, so that bug actually doesn't *always* happen. 
Gb 
The vertex mode crash is usually fixed by setting the Instancing mode to "Force off" in the preferences. If that doesn't work for you, I'll have to investigate some more. Could you paste the stack trace for the crash at pastebin or something? The lines get truncated.

Movement is not implemented like in game ATM - there is no "fly through" mode yet. Pressing "A" actually just invokes the menu item for "Move Camera Forward", that's why you can't press multiple keys at once.

There is no command to snap a brush to grid size, "Snap to grid" toggles grid snapping. Rotation should be smooth - are you running a release or a debug build? 
Sleep 
Awesome, setting instancing to "force off" seems to prevent the crash indeed. So far, so good.

I was running a debug build. I'll try a release build.

I intend to also try this under Windows, so that I can form an opinion with the various bugs out of the picture.

I see about the movement.

At least I see an editor now, thanks for bearing with me. 
Also 
Sorry I didn't notice that.

http://pastebin.com/4878suLa 
Gb 
The current build has serious problems with the menu on Linux. Menu items don't get disabled when they should (such as the Copy item when nothing is selected), leading to crashes when such menu items are invoked.

I'm trying to fix it, but I can't for the life of me find the cause. wxGTK behaves very differently from the other platforms. The current Windows version is much more stable. 
Thanks 
for the pastebin. Note that TB writes a log file at ~/TrenchBroom.log - could you try and find the lines it printed just before it crashed? I suspect that the problem comes from the driver not being able to compile a shader. 
Fixed 
It's actually a bug in Ubuntu: http://trac.wxwidgets.org/ticket/14302 Man, I hate this sometimes. 
Findings 
Some more observations:

1. "Open recent" seems to do nothing.

2. Clicking "TrenchBroom Help" opens Firefox, but not the correct website.


Some problems I have while trying to quickly block out a room-and-corridor map:

1. Drawing new brushes with the mouse makes them appear "somewhere in space". I can't help but find Radiant's behaviour more intelligent, which is to make the newly created brush the same height as the previously selected one and place it on the same ground plane.

2. Having to press Alt (and everything that interferes with it on a Linux desktop) to be able to scale a brush in the Z direction. Again, Radiant allows you to resize brushes in all directions (in the 3D viewport) without any keypresses; the axis it chooses depends on your position relative to the brush and the mouse placement/movement. This seems quicker and more intuitive in Radiant.

3. I would appreciate (if a real 2D viewport is such a big no-no) to have at least an ortographic view toggle and keyboard shortcuts for top/side/front view like it is handled, for instance, in Blender. Example: When you press numpad 1 in Blender while in ortho view, you get a front view and the grid appears perpendicular to the camera. This (like the 2D view in other map editors) is helpful to check your mesh/brushes at a glance.

4. Movement through space is more intuitive in Radiant, because it is identical to the way you move ingame (with noclip). In this way, you don't need a camera orbit mode in Radiant, because you can practically circle-strafe around the object you want to examine. You can't beat WASD flythrough mode.

5. It is (in my opinion) easier to create a brush angled at exactly 45 degrees (or similar) in a 2D viewport, because that allows you to count the grid intersections to the side and to the top to arrive at the exact angle you want. In TrenchBroom, the grid is drawn on the brush itself; while you can do the counting, it is harder to do in TrenchBroom. This is another case where an orthographic top view with a grid shown in the entire viewport would really help. Note that while I could use a "helper brush" to allow me to do the counting, I'm one of those people who prefer to block out the walls first, not the floors.

6. I would appreciate a keyboard shortcut for "snap all selected brushes to the current grid" identical to Ctrl-G in Radiant. I just like to make damn sure that stuff is on grid.

Most of these problems relate to quick blocking out of buildings. I'll gladly believe that triangle terrain is easier to do in Trenchbroom, and that vertex editing is more comfortable (you pretty much have to use the clipper in Radiant to get the shape you want), but for blocking out angular geometry I find myself wanting to use Radiant.

I'll keep trying TB, though. 
Gb 
1. "Open recent" seems to do nothing.

This is already fixed, but I haven't pushed the changes yet.

2. Clicking "TrenchBroom Help" opens Firefox, but not the correct website.

I'll look into it. Where is TB installed on your system? What permissions are set for the Resources directory?

1. Drawing new brushes with the mouse makes them appear "somewhere in space". I can't help but find Radiant's behaviour more intelligent, which is to make the newly created brush the same height as the previously selected one and place it on the same ground plane.

Brushes only appear "somewhere" if you don't start drawing them on some other surface. Once you have a couple brushes laid down, this becomes rather intuitive IMO.

2. Having to press Alt (and everything that interferes with it on a Linux desktop) to be able to scale a brush in the Z direction. Again, Radiant allows you to resize brushes in all directions (in the 3D viewport) without any keypresses; the axis it chooses depends on your position relative to the brush and the mouse placement/movement. This seems quicker and more intuitive in Radiant.

You can resize in any direction in TB by holding shift. Alt is only for moving things in the Z direction. I'm staying away from any kind of functionality that depends on the camera direction / position for all operations (exception resizing where it's implicit).

3. I would appreciate (if a real 2D viewport is such a big no-no) to have at least an ortographic view toggle and keyboard shortcuts for top/side/front view like it is handled, for instance, in Blender. Example: When you press numpad 1 in Blender while in ortho view, you get a front view and the grid appears perpendicular to the camera. This (like the 2D view in other map editors) is helpful to check your mesh/brushes at a glance.

Yeah, we've had this discussion already, and the gist if it is "no" ;-). What you're suggesting is basically a poor substitute for a 2D view. If you can't live without 2D views, this editor is not for you. That said, there seem to be plenty of people who, after getting used to how TB operates, don't mind the lack of 2D views.

4. Movement through space is more intuitive in Radiant, because it is identical to the way you move ingame (with noclip). In this way, you don't need a camera orbit mode in Radiant, because you can practically circle-strafe around the object you want to examine. You can't beat WASD flythrough mode.

I'm already working on a fly through mode which will also allow you to do editing much like how it works in the Sauerbraten editor.

5. It is (in my opinion) easier to create a brush angled at exactly 45 degrees (or similar) in a 2D viewport, because that allows you to count the grid intersections to the side and to the top to arrive at the exact angle you want. In TrenchBroom, the grid is drawn on the brush itself; while you can do the counting, it is harder to do in TrenchBroom. This is another case where an orthographic top view with a grid shown in the entire viewport would really help. Note that while I could use a "helper brush" to allow me to do the counting, I'm one of those people who prefer to block out the walls first, not the floors.

A positionable 3D grid is already planned for the next version. It will help in such situations.

6. I would appreciate a keyboard shortcut for "snap all selected brushes to the current grid" identical to Ctrl-G in Radiant. I just like to make damn sure that stuff is on grid.

What do you mean by "snap all selected brushes" - snap their vertices?

Most of these problems relate to quick blocking out of buildings. I'll gladly believe that triangle terrain is easier to do in Trenchbroom, and that vertex editing is more comfortable (you pretty much have to use the clipper in Radiant to get the shape you want), but for blocking out angular geometry I find myself wanting to use Radiant.

Yup, TB is weak in that department. I'm trying to address this with the positionable 3D grid and other features.

Thanks for your feedback! 
 
What do you mean by "snap all selected brushes" - snap their vertices?

Yep, snap them so all their vertices are on the currently selected grid.

Brushes only appear "somewhere" if you don't start drawing them on some other surface. Once you have a couple brushes laid down, this becomes rather intuitive IMO.

I noticed that the plane they appear on seems to be influenced by where you click on adjacent brushes, but I haven't managed to draw a new brush on the same ground plane as an adjacent brush.


More observations...

7. A shortcut to rotate any object by 90 degrees around the Z axis would be nice for e.g. monster placement. It is just faster than using an arbitrary rotation tool.

8. Rotating a brush horizontally to some arbitrary angle, then rotating it back (with snap to grid turned on) makes the brush go off grid with some coordinates now being floating point numbers. Thus it is pretty easy to create off-grid geometry, and that's where a "snap to grid" button would be useful.

9. Setting the angle of a func_door could be more comfortable if it was displayed in the 3D view.

10. Creating a key on an entity requires mouse clicking on the "Value" field after entering the key name; it would be faster to automatically move the cursor into the Value field after pressing Enter. Because as it is now, it requires you to reach for the mouse in between.

11. Creating a hollow box is harder in this 3D view than it is in a (Radiant) 2D viewport. I'm not talking about CSG Make Hollow, just building a box by hand. I like to box my maps during development, and I box large outdoor areas as well (put the pitchforks away, I know what I'm doing). I'm just saying it is hard to create a simple hollow box made from 6 brushes around the entire map with the 6 sides perfectly fitting, because drawing brushes (and navigating around the map, too) is klunky right now.

12. I find myself wanting to increase the movement speed of the WASD keys.

13. It would be good to have a method of axis-aligned movement; ie restrict moving a brush to the X or Y axis as well as the Z axis. Use case: Still trying to make a non-leaking large box.



Anyway, I'll quit for tonight.

I appreciate the idea of making a 3D-only editor, but IMHO this dogma introduces a couple of its own problems that would be very easily solved by such terrible things like a switchable 2D viewport or even a gizmo. It seems extremist to see the 3D viewport as the only good way to map.

It's not like I depend on the 2D viewports in a big way; I mainly use the 3D viewport in Radiant as well, which is definitely possible. I just think that for certain specific uses, a 2D view is very hard to beat.

More power to you, of course, it is your editor after all. 
Force Integer Plane Points 
I used this on my speedmap, getting all kinds of crazy problems when I try to compile it. Is using this more or less prone to microleaks? It seems I can't use snap vertices and snap to grid to fix these problems.
Map is here if you're interested -

http://depositfiles.com/files/sgiknj9nk

compiled with treeq (tyr's wont let me compile beyond the bsp stage for some reason) 
FifthElephant 
I sent an email with that map. Loaded into Hammer and again the bad brushes could not be loaded. After I plugged the holes no leaks.
I added func_detail the map layout was a vis killer.

Link below works to compile.
I have found it to create bad pointfiles but everything else seems to work.

http://disenchant.net/files/utils/snapshot/tyrutils-0.7-42-gbb02e6d-win32.zip

Maybe you could use Hammer to filter out bad brushes. Trenchbroom's rules for bad brushes seem loose. 
Gb 
7. A shortcut to rotate any object by 90 degrees around the Z axis would be nice for e.g. monster placement. It is just faster than using an arbitrary rotation tool.

Look at Edit > Actions when brushes or entities are selected.

8. Rotating a brush horizontally to some arbitrary angle, then rotating it back (with snap to grid turned on) makes the brush go off grid with some coordinates now being floating point numbers. Thus it is pretty easy to create off-grid geometry, and that's where a "snap to grid" button would be useful.

That's pretty much unavoidable, but you can of course always use undo.

9. Setting the angle of a func_door could be more comfortable if it was displayed in the 3D view.

I agree that the angle indicators are flimsy right now. I'll improve their visibility.

10. Creating a key on an entity requires mouse clicking on the "Value" field after entering the key name; it would be faster to automatically move the cursor into the Value field after pressing Enter. Because as it is now, it requires you to reach for the mouse in between.</a>

Can't do it right now due to a limitation in wxWidgets, but it will be fixed as soon as wxWidgets 2.9.5 is released. Although I think you can move to the next field with TAB right now.

13. It would be good to have a method of axis-aligned movement; ie restrict moving a brush to the X or Y axis as well as the Z axis. Use case: Still trying to make a non-leaking large box.

Also being worked on.

I appreciate the idea of making a 3D-only editor, but IMHO this dogma introduces a couple of its own problems that would be very easily solved by such terrible things like a switchable 2D viewport or even a gizmo. It seems extremist to see the 3D viewport as the only good way to map.

It's not like I depend on the 2D viewports in a big way; I mainly use the 3D viewport in Radiant as well, which is definitely possible. I just think that for certain specific uses, a 2D view is very hard to beat.


I agree with that. The reason why I'm trying avoid 2D views is that I want to find out how far I can push the 3D only approach. If it turns out that, even with things like a moveable grid, it is not possible to do certain tasks comfortably at all, then I'll reconsider 2D views. 
Goddamn Tags ;-) 
 
FifthElephant 
I'll take a look! 
Mechtech... 
The bad pointfiles are the reason why I'm resorting to using TreeQ, the only problem with that is I am playing a lottery game with brushes. I'm trying to avoid using Hammer if possible. I think maybe was that I had used the "force plane integers" on this map which really I only need vertex integers (probably).

As for it being a vis killer, I think this is going to be my curse as I used to make very open/large Unreal maps. Also I didn't really plan it properly because it's a speedmap. I think I will probably avoid terrain for speedmaps in the future.. 
Fifth 
The option to use integer plane points mostly exists for backward compatibility with older compilers. It will not avoid problems with brushes and might even produce more microleaks.

You need to get a feeling for what brush shapes are "safe" and what aren't. I haven't looked at the map you posted above, but here are some general rules:

- fewer faces on a brush are better
- very big and very small brushes can cause problems
- integer vertex coordinates can help, but cannot always be guaranteed due to rounding errors or lack of precision when integer vertex coordinates are enabled

Everyone feel free to add to that list. 
 
I used the speedmap to experiment with something that I haven't used yet. I think this backs up my thoughts quite well though, and it's clear to me that the compilers and the editors aren't really designed to do the things I want to do with terrain.
I have a few more experiments to do with terrain but I doubt they'll be as nice as what I've tried to do so far. 
 
Keep in mind how old Quake is. If you want to get crazy, maybe make maps for something more modern. Doing crazy crap in Quake is a challenge for people rather than the preferred platform. :) 
Yeah 
might be right - speedmaps are good places to experiment with that kind of stuff though. 
Fifth 
While I do encourage experimentation, I suggest you stick with trisoup or even prisms. The fewer vertices a face has, the better. The fewer faces a brush has, the better - ergo prisms are optimal. 
SW 
Like Wedges<Pyramids<tetrahedrons? 
Or 
has the brush geometry always need to have some thickness?
I.e like not using two edges to seal the map from void
(and avoid bsp holes)?
Not getting it... 
SW 
Yeah my next attempt at terrain will be some kind of trisoup/prism thing, but the work involved for this is hefty (and unlike cubes it's not as good for sealing off back faces). I really can't wait until you implement a floor lofter style tool, or have some kind of easy way of grouping brushes together for manipulation (or have a layer system).
It's still early days yet and I guess I'm still learning. 
Layer System? 
What do you mean by that?

mfx: Ask me on wednesday when we have some paper in front of us ;-) 
Like Photoshop 
or Worldcraft. You can make "layers", just throw brushes into the layer and you make them visible or invisible. I thought this was a feature you may look at adding some time down the line. It's probably more useful if you have 2d views though. 
Oh Right 
TB will have groups for that purpose. You will then be able to hide and lock such groups. 
Yeah 
In WC they're called 'visgroups'. 
Yeah 
 
Hey Ijed 
 
Fifth 
I've been using TyrUtils and Txqbsp.exe as a work around if I need to find a leak. I can't see the point of mapping without func_detail now.

TB can make some really wild brushes to the point that it's hard to tell if there valid. Simple is better. Make a few simple brushes instead of one complex monster. An option is create the complex brush and fill it in with simple ones to make the same shape then delete the complex one.

You can also make up prefab brush groups. As long as there good and on grid you can mash them up to create varied terrain.

IMO creating valid error free terrain has been the hardest thing to learn in Quake editing. 
 
That pointfile bug sucks, I'll get to work on that. 
Mechtech 
Well, getting proper vis blocking is tricky as well - lots of maps are made without any at all and have infinite vis times. Detail brushes should help this some as well now though. But for the want of a few dogleg corridors or a doughnut, we've probably not seen many maps that the author(s) gave up on.

Sleepwalker, I'm going to start using trenchbroom exclusively now, so should be able to provide some more valid contributions in the coming weeks :) 
Awesome 
I'm also looking for another tester if you're interested. 
Ok 
I'm already signed up on github, but haven't been active. 
I Publish Betas Via Dropbox 
If you have DB, can you give me the email address you use for it? 
Sure 
Ouch 
Current version says it's a 15 hour d/l ;) 
Ok 
Got it. Server burp. 
Alright 
Sent you an invite, but I deleted all old betas just now, so the folder is empty ;-). I'll upload a new build later. 
This Editor 
Is the business. 
Problem 
Sorry about not posting to the proper location.
If I use the texture named 1999

I get

"Malformed map file: expected token of type string, but found integer number at line 1249, column 67" 
Texture Names 
Have to begin with a letter not a number - I think this is common to all textures. 
Interesting... 
I should add that to my texture faq. 
Do They? 
Where's that writ? There is another bug in TB's map parser concerning texture names beginning with a curly brace. I could fix this one too while I'm at it, but only if all-digit texture names are valid. Someone should check the Quake source. 
Unnamed Textures 
Aerowalk has an unnamed texture in the map somehow, if I recall correctly. 
"{" Texture 
Is used by Remake Quake for "fence textures" (alpha masked where palette index 255 is transparent), just like Half-Life. 
Yes 
But I would like to have a word with whoever had the idea to use a curly brace in the texture name. 
Hahaha 
I understand. 
!! 
Ahhh SW, you make me chuckle. ;) 
Uh 
It was 'us' - I name no names, collective responsibility. 
It Was MH 
n/t 
Then 'you' Will Pay For This Atrocity ;-) 
 
Dunno Why 
they chose on the curly brace, I mean they could have just used a key of "mask" like they did with alpha surely?
I have a nice idea for alpha masks for another map, I think they're all going to be speedmaps from now on btw (since I'm not longer unemployed)... saying that I'm trying to get my sp map sorted before monday, I have actually added a lot of extra stuff so if you downloaded the mp version of deck it will be worth downloading the sp ;) 
FifthElephant 
I'm actually looking forward to seeing "Deck" in SP. I don't "Do" MP so seeing how you envisioning it to play out will be interesting. 
Same 
 
Best Level Editor I Have Ever Used 
And I mean it, absolutely incredible. It really is. 
Really Have To Get Around To This 
Maybe will see if I can get it to run in June. To and kid will be out of town for a week s will have time to dork out like in ye olde days. 
To = Gf 
iPad 
Schneiden 
Thanks, glad you like it.

Drew, go for it! 
Particle Editor 
Particle Editor 
Just create a feature request at the bug tracker, but the chances that it'll happen soon are pretty slim. 
Particles 
I'dd rather see engine maintainers settle on a universal and highly modular particle system. The DP one is useful but relatively fixed function. 
Vanilla Only 
I'd rather see the editor stay focused on vanilla aspects, first and foremost, and/or perhaps only. 
 
I agree with first and foremost. Non vanilla would be nice, as long as it's integrated non-intrusive. Maybe a plugin API could fill those gaps at some point? Long term speculation... 
Multiple Game Support, Particle Systems 
Multiple game support will be in the editor. Particle system is unlikely, sorry. Plugin API is an interesting idea and may happen at some point if there is (serious) interest in writing plugins. 
Entity's Key List (definition File?) And Key Descriptions 
Is it just me, or is the editor still not listing the keys that can be added to the entity you're editing?

For example, editing a Light, in the Entity panel , there is no list of keys that can be added, such as "light" for example.

Also, a description of the key, such as "light: The value of light. Default (300)" like I've seen in other editors. 
No It Doesn't 
Updates are slow due to day job and family obligations. 
Sorry, I Mis-phrased My Post. 
I couldn't edit my post afterwards.

No problem that the feature isn't there yet.

What I meant was, the tone in my post was because I thought it was added already; I was sure I heard you say it was done. So, I thought I was experiencing a bug.

No worries though. Take your time. 
Well 
it's been known a long time what the default light value is.

It would be nice to have these displayed in the editor but let's be honest anyone mapping now will probably know many of the entity keys and values.
TB is an oddity because work flow is cut massively by the way you create and edit brushes but adds extra time by not having the entities fully explained (like in Worldcraft for example).

In it's current iteration I find myself very comfortable using TB and never wanting to revert back to WC, despite my needing to often look up keys and values for the various entities. 
Well 
I don't.

Thanks. 
Yeah 
It's on my todo list, but as I said - time is limited. I'll push this for the 1.1 version though. 
 
It would be nice to have these displayed in the editor but let's be honest anyone mapping now will probably know many of the entity keys and values.

I think having the default keys displayed would be a good idea though, Especially because Trenchbroom seems to be attracting a lot of new mappers who don't know the keys by heart. 
Yeah, I Agree With That. 
 
And 
More experienced mappers can change out the default values for their own ones in the fgd/def files depending on what map they're making. I doubt most mappers, after experimenting with lights, won't have their own values that they prefer to the default 200 blob style.

But that's a minor bonus when looking at the entire user base.

Just having these automatically generated will save users mouse clicks and key taps. And that makes the software more efficient to use. 
For Everyone I Mean, Not Just New Users 
 
Textures Will Not Load 
I have been trying to use Trenchbroom, yet I have run into a serious issue. I have pointed the application to my Quake directory, and loaded the quake fgd, yet it won't load any textures into the program. It loads the Entities just fine. I have tried pointing Trenchbroom to several different installs of quake, including a vanilla quake install, Darkplaces, etc. Each time it finds entities, but can't find textures. please advise. 
You Need 
To load a separate .wad file for map textures. It doesn't pull these from the quake folders. There is a comprehensive amount of .wad files on quaddicted.com 
MoonKnightFan 
Can't Get It To Start 
The window opens for about a second. I can see it trying to load stuff, then it just shuts down with no error message or anything.

Log file just ends abruptly.

4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Renderer info: GeForce 7800 GS/AGP/SSE2/3DNOW! version 2.1.2 from NVIDIA

Corporation
4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Depth buffer bits: 16
4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Multisampling disabled
4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: OpenGL instancing disabled
4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Loading entity definition file C:\Trenchbroom\Resources\Defs\Quake.fgd
4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Loading 'progs/player.mdl' (searching )
4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Unable to find MDL 'progs/player.mdl'

(etc, etc....)

4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Loading 'progs/g_shot.mdl' (searching )
4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Unable to find MDL 'progs/g_shot.mdl'
4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Created Face Shader Program
4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Created Face.vertsh
4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Created Face.fragsh
4068 2013-06-26 10:35:38: Unable to link Face Shader Program, linker output was:

and that's where it ends. 
Version? 
What version are you using?
What operating system are you using?
If you're on Windows, did you install "Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 Redistributable Package" http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=5555
 
Trenchboom is 1.09.224
Windows XP SP3 fully updated
VC++ x86 redistributable 10.0.30319 is installed

Computer is an old Athlon 64 3400+ (nVidia chipset)

I guess I could try on another computer, but this is the one I do all my dev type work on. 
Rick 
What is the GL driver version? It looks like the driver is failing to compile / link the shaders, which may or may not be a driver bug. 
 
The video driver is really old (2007). I never mess with it because I updated it once and had a lot of problems, so I went back to the old one and have never had any problems since.

That was so long ago that I don't actually remember what the problems were, only that I made a mental note to never screw around with the video driver again. Maybe a new driver wouldn't have the problems. 
Rick 
I didn't ask about video card drivers, because I thought it was obvious and common sense by now that people update their video card drivers. You see the message everywhere now a days. 
Rick 
Sorry about that. The Face shader which is failing on your system is quite complex and might therefore cause these problems. However eithout an error message I have nothing to go on to fix it. If you're willing, We could try to pinpoint the problem by removing functionality though. Write me at kristian.duske@gmail.com if you want to try this. 
 
Loving this so far. :) My biggest gripe is that I don't know all the Quake entity key/values and Trenchboom doesn't list them (either in the documentation or in the Entity tab). Seems pretty hard to find that info on the net too. :) I ended up opening up GTKRadiant, placing entities and seeing what it's descriptions say. Any chance of having better entity descriptions/more options in the Entity Properties Tab? 
The Happy Friar 
That feature is coming, but the author of Trenchbroom is on vacation right now.

But, if you can find 100 people to start using TrenchBroom, and get 100 websites to start praising TrenchBroom, then I think the author will come home early from vacation and implement that feature ASAP. ;) 
I'm Not On Vacation 
I wish! 
Thank God 
Hey, I love you for this. No really, I LOVE you.
Keep it up :) 
 
Google quake map specs and also google worldcraft guide. Both are what I use for mapping. Or alternatively download my map q-deck because it was made entirely in trench and I included the source :) 
Here's The Links 
Thanks For The Nice Words, Guys. 
 
Friar 
just open the .fgd or .def file included in the download and search the entity you need. Should be a lot quicker than opening another editor at the same time! 
 
I just found that out later today. I was looking to see if I could add that info to the .fgd and saw it was already there. What would be useful is a Windows help file with all the entity info, similar to Doom 3's script reference help file. 
Yeah 
such things are planned. 
Select A Subdirectory Within Your Quak Direction To Search For.. 
In the map properties option, the 'Select a subdirectory' spot there are no options.

I feel like this is a very simple thing to fix but I'm blind. 
Tree 
Do you have the path to Quake set up correctly in View->Preferences? 
 
I like it!

some crashes on win32 though.

*when i click on the titlebar symbol (accidentaly)

*clipper sometimes 
 
if you get any errors, it helps to track them if you submit them on github:
https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues?direction=desc&sort=updated&state=open 
Rudl 
There's much improved version that I still haven't finished. If you would like to try it out, send me an email at kristian.duske@gmail.com. 
 
@necros I'll report the errors :)

Anyway those are not really showstoppers and It is a joy to work with trenchbroom ;)

@SleepwalkR Thanks :)you got mail 
This Is Really Cool. 
I only wish I'd seen this thread five months ago.

At first I was frustrated because it doesn't work like radiant, but after a few sesssions I'm getting into the paradigm of TB a little better.

I found a funny bug, not a showstopper but it did cause me to lose a few minutes' work: Open a new map, make a few random brushes, but don't save the map. Quit Trenchbroom - a dialog box will come up asking me if I want to save changes to unnamed1 - only problem is, nothing happens when I click any of the dialog box options of "cancel," "no," or "yes." So I am just stuck there and have to force quit the process.

After reading the whole thread, it sounds like this could be a bug in the backend stuff (wxwidgets, gtk?) rather than TB itself.

Early 08 Macbook Pro with 8600M, OS X 10.6.8. 
It's A Known Problem With WxWidgets 
 
The State Of TrenchBroom 
I just wanted to let everyone know what's going on with TB lately and why there haven't been any updates for a while.

The currently released version is written in C++ and based on wxWidgets, a cross-platform GUI toolkit. I have written this version in quite a hurry without knowing either C++ or wxWidgets too well, and unfortunately it shows. There are all kinds of hacks and shortcuts in the code that make it hard to maintain. The worst effect of this is that whenever I touch something to add a new feature or fix a bug, I often get new bugs and problems.

This is the case with the current codebase of the next release (TB 1.1), which doesn't work properly on Windows (can't use arrow keys) and has a lot of problems on Linux as well. I would like to fix the Windows bugs and release this version, but it has been quite difficult to track them down, so it might take a while (or not happen at all - read on).

At the same time I have started over completely from scratch. This new codebase is much better structured and easier to maintain. It will become TB 2.0 and it will have (almost) all of the features of the current 1.1 codebase. On top of that it will support multiple games (probably Hexen2 and Quake2 out of the box, with Quake3 and Half Life support coming later). Also, I'm making sure that this version will work fine on all three major platforms from that start. This version is coming along well, but it will be several months until it's ready for release.

So, as you can see, I have been silently working on TB, but I can't say when the next release is going to happen, or what it will entail. I'll try to get the 1.1. release out of the door so that you can keep using TB until 2.0 is ready, but I can't promise anything. 
Sounds Great 
 
 
Sweet. We may see a resurgence of maps for other games! 
Oooh 
You need any more people to test on linux?

I eventually got TB working on my laptop some time ago, but various bugs and incompatibilities with my particular ageing machine made it a bit of a chore to use tbh. I'm using my desktop a bit more often now though.

Out of curiosity, what is your main/favourite programming language? You said you don't know C++ that well, but you managed to write a Quake editor :) 
By Now It's C++ 
Until three years ago, I mostly used Java. Then I switched to Objective-C to write TB, and about 1.5 years ago I started learning C++ in order to make TB portable to other platforms. C++ is however quite different from purely OO languages like Objective-C and Java because it has meta programming facilities. Because of that and the manual memory management it requires, I find C++ quite difficult to learn. I guess TB 1 was my testbed, and now that I know a bit more about the language, I hope that TB 2 will be better. 
Great News On TB2.0 
Thanks for the update... just one request: Instead of targeting other more or less dead games, how about support for Xonotic, Warsow etc.? 
Once Multi Game Support Is Done 
you are free to add support for these games, or find someone who will ;-) 
Other Games Are No More Dead Then Quake... 
and id-based .map format is pretty similar across all their .map tech.

A neat feature would be to use GTKRadiant game info in TB to support games.

But, glad to hear you're still plugging away at it! Looking forward to TB 2.0! 
Committed To Making A Proper Map With This Now 
appreciated you aren't in the place to be implementing insignificant little suggestions at the moment with the rebuild going on. but here's one anyway (feel free to shoot it down if it's just me being really lazy)

it would be nice if the clip tool remembered the most recent previously used 'mode'. case in point, if you use it to split a brush in two without deleting anything, with this functionality you wouldn't need to tab twice each time you wanted to repeat the operation. normally when i use the split function i use it multiple times in succession (eg. for cutting up a floor in order to lower part of it) 
Agree 
This would be handy. Small time savers like this can add up to big ones, especially with something as fundamental as clipping. 
Please Add It To The Issue Tracker 
Otherwise it will get lost. 
Will Do 
just making sure it wasn't a completely retarded idea first. wouldn't want to clog the tracker up otherwise! 
 
is the broken transparent textures a known bug or is it only for some video cards? (nvidia 250gts) 
Known Problem 
It's not really a bug, though. It sometimes happens when there are intersecting transparent polys. 
 
i meant how transparent brushes aren't actually transparent, but selected brushes have their faces drawn and models are always visible through them. 
I Don't Understand 
Can you show me a screenshot? 
 
http://mobile.sheridanc.on.ca/~jonescor/temp/unselected.jpg
liquids occluding unselected brush

http://mobile.sheridanc.on.ca/~jonescor/temp/selected.jpg
selected brush's faces being drawn through liquid brushes.

http://mobile.sheridanc.on.ca/~jonescor/temp/model1.jpg
model is always drawn over liquids

http://mobile.sheridanc.on.ca/~jonescor/temp/model2.jpg
even though it is behind them 
Its Useful 
in many cases. There when i need to isolate stuff i'm using the view options - with models for example.
In other cases, like multiple water brushes fighting with each other, it can get confusing quickly. 
 
oh, is this intentional??? i thought it was just bad drawn order. 
Not Intentional 
It is bad draw order, and I don't really know how to fix it. I'll have to think about it. Can you please submit a bug report? 
 
sure. i've just been away from TB for so long that I didn't know if it was known or not. :) 
I Don't Get That Bad Draw Order. 
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/12/5bm9.jpg/

You can see that I have the same entity and a brush selected, it all looks like I'd expect it to.

ATI 3850, Catylist 13.4, Win XP-32.

Didn't happen in the 12.x driver series either. 
It's More Or Less Random 
necros, I'll look into it, and if you are saying that you're spending a bit more time with the editor now, that would make me quite happy ;-)

Happy Friar, I don't think the problem depends on the graphics adapter. It's just that sometimes the faces will be sorted correctly and sometimes they won't. It depends on where the camera is and where you're looking.

That said, I could be wrong and maybe I have broken something. 
 
doesn't look random to me. i've never seen it work. :)

however, even though it is being drawn in the right order for happy friar, the brushes are not actually transparent in his screenshot either. 
Never Seen It Work? 
Which Version are you using, anyway? 
 
About says 1.1.0, build 317 
Is There A Seperate Transparency Tag? 
I thought if you use Lava (water, etc) it automatically applies a transparency flag. I tried it again with a sky/water on top and water/pentagram on bottom, still never shows through.

Version 1.0.9, build 224. Didn't have a new one last I checked. Nothing newer on the TB website. 
The 1.1.0 Release Is Beta 
Necros, does 1.0.9 work for you? 
 
Yes, sorry for the confusion. :( 
Ok, So It's Only Broken In 1.1.0 
 
Oldschool Solution? 
Use 3 layers of screendoor + opaque. 
Can't Seem To Run This 
on my brand new Surface Pro. No idea why, I click the icon and it simply doesn't load. No error messages or anything. 
That's A Shame... 
But I can't really do much about it right now. Last time I checked it ran fine in Windows 8. 
 
Does this have any dependencies on other things I should know of (like .net framework or anything similar)?

I need to get this to work because it's likely going to be my main way of working for a while. 
Fifth 
 
Is it possibly because the surface is 64 bit? 
If It Doesn't Support 32 Bit, Then Maybe 
The TB builds I'm publishing are 32 bit. 64bit builds should not be a problem. Can you test whether the SF Pro runs 32bit binaries? 
 
Well it runs everything I have used so far, including a really old copy of Paintshop Pro that I have installed on every box I have ever owned since 1997. ;)

The surface also is only compatible with DirectQ from all the quake engines I have tried. (literally, something to do with the touchscreen messing up the controls in other engines) 
Dependancy Scanner 
So I decided to download a dependancy scanner to see if I am missing something.
http://www.techradar.com/news/software/applications/program-won-t-open-try-this-free-download-707381

According to the program Dependancy Walker the editor is trying to run something called IESHIMS.DLL... 
 
"Warning: At least one delay-load dependency module was not found.
Warning: At least one module has an unresolved import due to a missing export function in a delay-load dependent module."

Had a look to see which things are highlighted and they are -
SHLWAPI.DLL
API-MS-WIN-CORE-SYNCH-L1-1-0.DLL
SHCORE.DLL
IEFRAME.DLL

But I don't suppose that would help you massively. Weirdly, I have found IESHIMS.DLL and I can't see any reason why it is showing up as a problem. 
No Idea 
Not even why TB would try to load those. Probably something else that depends on them. Sorry! 
 
Looks like they're dependencies of other dll files that TB uses. I will run the profiler on dependency walker and also run process monitor and see if I can find anything there.

This is a real bummer though, my old computer died literally days ago and the surface is my replacement computer. 
 
PSA just in case: Don't download dll files from random websites. Doing so is a security risk! 
 
I'm not going to be downloading random .dll files any time soon so don't worry about that.

I think it's something to do with running 64bit windows 8, it'd be good if someone else running 64bit could confirm this though. 
I'll Have A Look 
When I get back to my home pc in a couple of days. 
 
A friend of mine has 64bit windows 8, it works on his machine.

This is quite annoying. Of all the programs that I use this is one of the ones that I really need to work. Damnit. 
Fixed... 
Seems like the default drivers (and even the updated ones through windows update) are no good for running TB.

Had to go to intels website and download the latest drivers manually (the auto-update wont allow me to download them). 
 
If in doubt, update your drivers. Seems to be the TB rule of thumb! 
Auto-update 
Is usually crap for Windows regarding hardware. They can be years off of the curve if they bother at all. I had a laptop that used a 2007 update that they never had in their update database. 
I Remember 
One update that partially disabled my laptop. Had to download the fixed update on another machine and use a pen drive to fix it. 
Lights 
Having a slight issue with using this editor. When I spawn in a light, there's no obvious way to control the radius/strength of the light fixture. When I compiled the map, the entire room was made super duper bright. Is there some flag i'm supposed to set? I think i'm missing something. 
 
you need to add a 'light' key to the light entity and give it a numerical value, something like 100.

(the editor isn't very friendly to people new to Quake editing when it comes to the entities and some of the properties they may need or use. It's a work in progress)

also, make sure when you compile, you also run a light compiler. qbsp only generates the polygonal hulls of the map, you also need to run a light compiler on the bsp to generate the lightmap.

http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Getting_Started_Mapping may be of help if you are still confused! 
Or Cheat... 
I used Darkplaces with RT shadows. :) 
RE: Lights 
I already know about the lightmaps generator, I just needed to know about what key to put in, thanks. 
Compiling 
These are Bengt's tools: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/

Which are still the standard for q1 compiling; very dependable and the tool tips document on that page is full of useful information.

There's also Tyrann's tools, which are more modern / experimental and support detail brushes (more detail without longer vis times): http://www.disenchant.net/ 
I Had The Same Question A Bit Ago... 
Here's two sites given to me in this thread with all the info about the Quake entities:
http://www.quakewiki.net/archives/worldcraft/entity/standard/standard.shtm
http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quake/QDP/qmapspec.html 
Smart Editor? 
I always notice that when i'm using Trenchbroom, there's the words "Smart Editor Not Availabe" on the window. Why is this? 
Smart Editors 
The Smart editors are a set of specialized editors for entity properties. Currently, the only smart editors available are the spawnflags editor and the color editor, which is shown if you select a spawnflags property or a color property, respectively.

There are plans for more smart editors for properties such as angle, angles, mangle and so forth, but these are currently not implemented. The editor shows the "not available" message when you select a property for which no smart editor is available. 
Awesome Editor 
Can't stop playing around with it. Good job! I'm even considering dropping Radiant for Quake. There's only one thing I can't figure out. In Radiant, you have 2d views which I use extensively for clipping complex curves.

Trenchbroom doesn't have that and without it, I'm kinda lost on how to do it. It does show the coordinates but I'm really missing the grid. There's probably a viable technique for this but so far I haven't found it.

To illustrate my point and make my question easier:

http://kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/docs/images/view_management_normal.jpg

How would one go about creating that arch brushwork in Trenchbroom? 
That Really Is A Question For The Users, But 
I'd use the 3D clip tool and the vertex tool for this. It really does require some practice to create this kind of architecture in 3D, but it works. One thing that is really different from Radiant et. al. is that in TB, you have to move the camera around a lot.

Maybe necros and others can shed some light... in the long run, I hope someone will get around to making a bunch of tutorials for TB. 
Maybe You Could Add A 2D View To Make Such Editing Easier? 
As in snap to a fixed orthogonal axis and have a non-perspective view.

;P 
 
Not sure if this was reported, but the editor crashes if you snap vertices and then try to move them around. 
Arches 
Hit 'C' to activate the clipping tool, you can then place up to three point to define the clipping plane.

V activate vertex manipulation, although it can cause microleaks if used as structural stuff and you don't use the snap to vertices action.

Use Tab to lock movement to X or Y axis, and hold Alt to switch to vertical Z axis movement.

With those you can easily make complex geometry fairly quickly.

Trenchbroom allows for much more freeform brushwork.

Which is where the grid mindset becomes hard to shake off. I've been using the editor for months now and still find myself constrained by the habit of thinking in front/sides/top grid terms.

It is worth unlearning that :) 
Skacky 
Could you create an issue on github? Please also add steps to reproduce. Thanks. 
 
Done. It looks like this doesn't always happen, though. I've given more information about that in the issue entry. 
 
Good and quick replies, thank you all. It was more a question in general. I'm having some difficulties finding the right words in English. Clipping and free form brush work is one thing, controlling the coordinates is another.

I made this in Radiant:

http://imgur.com/60ZuxN2

I was only able to do this by using some math in determining the grid coordinates to make all the curves out of brushes. That's something, as far as I'm aware, that I cannot do in Trenchbroom. I hope this makes sense.

Anyway, I can always build those parts in Radiant and convert to them Quake and import it in Trenchbroom. 
Ah 
Although 
It looks like you're already basing your stuff off it. 
So... 
would it be helpful if you could place a grid plane to help you find the proper coordinates? Is the problem that you can only see the grid where it is already projected onto brushes? 
I Made Deck 
entirely in TB and I managed to get a lot of curve action going on. You can still apply a 2d grid mindset to working 3d.

You can make any of those shapes shown there in TB quite easily, you can just point the cam directly at it and use brush clipping with the grid enabled to get the same results.

The only thing I wasn't able to figure out was making curved pipes, I'm sure it can be done but I couldn't manage to figure it out. Someone should just make a bunch of prefab shapes to be honest. 
FifthElephant 
You mean a curved pipe like that? http://imgur.com/AQ7eRxa

I did this in TrenchBroom with the help of the grid. Granted, it's not the most curvy thing ever, but it gets the job done. :p 
Looks Nice 
... originally I was going to have my deck map have pipes leading into the different slime pits. but I scrapped the idea after several failed attempts at getting the pipe-work done (though there are some quite primitive pipes in the map in the final release). 
Yeah 
The CZG tutorial depends on being able to scale brushes as a whole rather than adjust faces alone.

I've got a map full of right angled pipes, should probably figure out a decent curved pipe construction method.

I'm guessing you used rotation, clip and snap vertices skacky? 
 
Yup. I didn't use the snap vertices command since it's glitchy for me, but I did use vertex editing. 
 
Thanks for the link Ijed. Different math, but the same system.

I've been a dumbass since I didn't realise a couple of things in Trenchbroom. But I do now. Tada!

http://imgur.com/jMleUOh

So this will be my editor of choice for Quake. Can't wait to start making maps.

Btw, I do miss a brush merge option but I see it's already on the list. 
 
everyone has said it better than me already. :)
I will say that it is a little bit awkward doing some brush operations without a 2d grid.

placement within the map coordinate is difficult to gauge, for example. i often put down point entities at the +- 4096 mark so I can keep track of where I am.

I have yet to start a map from scratch in TB, but i suspect the lack of a easily visible global coordinate system would be annoying. 
 
Personally I open my map with worldcraft to see if it's near the boundaries or not. It's also useful to see if I've made some bad manipulations. Now that I think about it, an error report window would be handy. 
 
error reporting is definitely planned. i think i'd just like some extra visualization stuff like being able to see '0 0 0' as well as the boundaries (or even arbitrary boundaries to help me keep a sense of place relative to the map origin). 
Necros 4 President 
Necros said what I didn't manage to phrase correctly. I take it this would be helpfull then:

quote
would it be helpful if you could place a grid plane to help you find the proper coordinates? Is the problem that you can only see the grid where it is already projected onto brushes?
quote 
Unreal Ed 
had a grid plane that ran through its 3d view that also showed you the edge boundaries. Maybe a toggle version of this would suffice? 
Yeah! 
 
Yeah 
I think this would come under a general 'helper objects' thing. Maybe including other stuff as well, like a tape measure. 
Tape Measure 
That's on my todo list along with a placeable grid. 
Cool 
I sometimes find myself applying different textures in order to measure things. 
Crashing While Using Vertex Tool 
I moved my trenchbroom folder to my laptop so I can map during my studies' pasttimes, but whenever I try to use the Vertex tool, a message comes up saying an error has occured, and if I choose "ignore" the map just deletes itself and I cannot make a brush or spawn an entity. 
Daya 
Check the system requirements stated on TBs download page.
Had the same problem, my hardware (gfx-card) was just too old to cope with OpenGL 2.1.
And you need to have the VisualC++ package installed, when running it under Windows. :) 
Try Playing With The Instancing Option In The Preferences 
Report back if it doesn't help! 
Forcing OpenGL Off Worked 
Thanks SleepwalkR! 
TrenchBroom 1.1.0 Released 
Changelog:
- Keyboard customization
- Restrict to X or Y axis when moving objects
- Limit face points to integer coordinates
- New duplication options (drag to duplicate and duplicate in specific direction)
- New information bar at top of 3D view
- Moved search field to information bar
- Improved precision and stability of vertex tool
- Select objects by line number
- Brush resizing feels more natural and snaps more accurately
- Autosave when the applicaton exits
- More brush filtering options
- Better performance for view filters
- Clip tool remembers last clip side
- Clip tool adds new brushes to parent entities of clipped brushes
- Clipped brushes remain selected after deactivating the clip tool
- Double click on brush selects all brushes belonging to the containing entity
- Shift + double click on brush to select all of its faces
- Paint selection
- Show entity angle in 3D view
- Camera tracks for point file navigation and center on selection
- Show compass in 3D view
- Buttons for texture flipping in face inspector
- Hotkeys to activate inspector tabs
- Smooth camera navigation with WASD keys
- Customizable texture browser icon size
- Render skip / clip / hint / trigger and liquid brushes semi-transparently
- Numerous bug fixes

Download: http://kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/downloads.php 
220 .map Support? 
Wasn't that on the 1.10 todo list? ;) 
I See 
Even more Kölsch for you!
Thank you Sleepy, you are awesome! 
 
Can't get this to work... bloody drivers!! 
What's Happening? 
 
 
I click it and it says "a problem caused the program to stop working correctly. Windows will close the program and notify you if a solution is available"

Probably would be worth me rolling back the drivers and reinstalling. 
Could You Please Create An Issue Report On Github 
With hw specs, windows and driver versions? Thanks! 
 
I will when I get home from work sure 
Done... 
hope it helps. I have the next few weeks off work, I might try and reformat my machine and freshly install the latest drivers. I need to try this new version, and hopefully make something. 
Yeah 
As I wrote in the issue, I can't support the Surface as I don't have access to one. The latest build works in my Windows 8 VM, so I guess it's a driver issue. 
Very Likely 
It doesn't come up with any insightful error messages either cause windows has always been a piece of crap in that regard.

It won't be a huge bother to reformat probably, I keep my machines fairly stock most of the time. 
TrenchBroom 1.1.1 
Changes
- More natural snapping when resizing brushes
- Remove limit on maximum mip texture dimensions
- Don't fall back to software renderer on OS X

Download: http://kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/downloads.php 
Finally Had A Chance To Test 
sadly I'm using this on the old decrepit laptop that I used to make my first TB map. BUT, it does run TB and this one works too.

I love the changes you've made to this version, I especially love how the entities are now linked showing you what is connected to what (in terms of what it triggers). This is a very UnrealED change that I greatly appreciate.

I would love to see some of the worldcraft texture features (like align to floor and the auto-align tools etc), plus obviously 220 support (more accurate texture mapping ftw).

I will dabble in some map making soon, keep up the good work Sleepy! 
Oh Yeah... 
and thank god you added the texture viewer zoom options. That is a god send! 
Glad You Like It! 
 
Groups And Instances 
Hi there, nice job with the editor. I'm thinking it is possible to make a group of brushes and turn ON the instance mode so if I'll change something in one instance it will change in all other instances of this group. Saving such groups to files would be neat :) 
Instancing Is On The Todo List 
But I still haven't figured out how to make it work well. I have some ideas, but it'll take a while. 
Dropping In To Say AWESOME Again 
Just dropping by again and snagged the latest update. Much appreciated! I love this tool and its made my willingness for making maps in quake2 rejuvenated. I might have missed it but was there a request ever for colored lights / general lighting previews with this tool?

Either way keep on with the great work! 
Quake 2 / Lighting 
Quake 2 support is already being worked on for TB 2.0. It's coming along nicely, but it will take a while as 2.0 is a complete rewrite.

Lighting preview has of course been suggested by quite a few people, but it's hard to get right and there are more pressing issues right now. Meaning, it's on my to do list, but not with a very high priority right now. 
Surface Pro + TB 
Got it to work (dunno how long for), using driver version 9.17.10.2867 from 05/12/2012.

This was from going to settings and "refreshing" the system, not a complete reformat.

There's definitely some driver issues with the surface pro. 
I Think. 
It may be a good idea to turn off GL by default, or at least externally. This seems to be causing a lot of the problems I am experiencing with TB and my Surface Pro.

If I try to use the vertex manipulation tool while opengl instancing is active I get this lovely crash -

http://imgur.com/ovOWV01 
Yeah 
GL instancing is more hassle than it's worth and will be gone from 2.0 anyway. 
Looking For Help 
I'm looking for someone to help me out with some icons for TrenchBroom's UI. I need about 10 icons:

Preferences (32x32)
Game Setup
View Setup
Mouse Setup
Keyboard Setup

Various (16x16)
Add
Remove
Path
Save
Delete

I would describe the style as "flat and reduced". Does anyone want to help out? I'll warn you right now that I'm picky ;-) 
Edit 
For the "various" icons, I also need an "Edit" icon. 
Flat And Reduced 
You mean something among these lines?

http://mashable.com/2010/06/17/minimalist-icon-sets/ 
Ideas 
Game Setup - don't really know what to put here
View Setup - A widescreen computer monitor
Mouse Setup - A stylized mouse seen from above without any rotation, e.g. the buttons point up
Keyboard - A stylized keyboard seen from above without any rotation.

Add - a plus sign
Remove - a minus sign
Path - don't know
Save - a flopyy disk of course ;-)
Delete - a trash can? 
 
since it's gpl you could just pick from the many free icon sets. I had good experiences with iconfinder.com 
 
Some from that link above.
I love drawing these things, but then again, why reinvent the wheel every time?

http://somerandomdude.com/work/open-iconic/
http://www.gentleface.com/free_icon_set.html
http://www.brightmix.com/blog/more-icons-in-the-brightmix-icon-set-free-for-all/

They should all have compatible licenses afaik. 
Etaryt 
 
 
wxWidgets 3.0 is out now, wasn't there some issues where you waited for it? 
Oh Thanks 
for the update! That's great news. I was already using wxWidgets 2.9.5 which resolved many of the issues I was having. 
How Do I Compile The Maps I Made With Trenchbroom? 
 
Compiling Tutorials 
@spiney 
thanks for those tutorials, but I already figured it out. 
Sorry To Bother... 
...But I'm having a bit of an issure with the light entity in trenchbroom.
I want to make a lighting affect like this: http://i.imgur.com/m1EbAhU.jpg
But I get this: http://i.imgur.com/hagirQu.jpg
Any idea how to fix this? 
Light Keys 
Try going into the light entity and click the plus sign, then name the key "wait" or "delay" without the quote marks. And change the values a bit.

Try wait 5, delay 0 and light 500. That might make a bright light with a small radius. 
Great! 
It worked! but I'm wondering how I'm supposed to get lighting styles in trenchbroom. (this might be the last time i'd bother asking here for today.) 
Experimentation 
is key. A lot of the compilers will come with info in readme files on different settings you can add to light entities.
That's how I found out that setting. Make a few different test maps too, nothing beats testing your ideas for different results. 
@Fith 
Nvm, I just found out how to do it, but thanks anyway! 
Problem Is 
TB doesn't show the values to configure the entities. Open up the source file, either .def or .fgd and it will list how to configure everything. 
Also Try Delay 5 
Personally I think delay 0 has way too much "reach", it just goes forever. I try to use only one or two in a given area, mostly for fill lighting.

Here is some pretty good info on Quake lighting:

http://shoresofnis.wordpress.com/guides/lighting-basics/ 
Delay 0 
is the default light setting. You must be thinking of something else. 
You're Right 
I was thinking about delay 1.

I guess I wasn't yet completely awake. 
Wow 
If only we had this 16 years ago. 
Splash Screen 
Since you've got a Modern Quake Level Editor, Maybe a Modern Logo/Splash could work. It would go perfect on T-shirts to generate awareness and funds. Appeals to the New Gen Level Makers?

http://i43.tinypic.com/rml5xv.png
let me know if you like it? 
It's Too Difficult 
To read. It also looks like you've got two seperate logos next to each other. 
T-Shirt Design 
http://i44.tinypic.com/2ldxd74.png (from my previous post) 
Ok 
That does look cool 
Nice Design 
The broom part looks a little out of place though. I'd also drop the texture and outer glow personally. 
 
Torch Broom? 
 
ehh, as long as it goes away on it's own when the editor's loaded. 
I'm Making Something 
Breezeep 
Cool! But if you want more feedback, it's best to post screenshots in the "Screenshots & Betas" thread. 
@SleepwalkR 
Thanks! I'm glad you like it so far! 
When Is The Next Update Coming? 
 
Long Time 
The 1.1 branch is not getting updated anymore unless there are serious problems with it, and the 2.0 branch is still under heavy development and it will be a long time until that gets published.

Why? 
@SleepwalkR 
I was just wondering... 
@SleepwalkR 
Any sweeping changes for the user with 2.0 or is it purely a rewiring of the internals? 
Hopefully 220 Map Support ;) 
I need that improved texture alignment! ;)

Also, I am coming up against problems with TB atm where anytime I try and place an entity it comes up with this -

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e65l532v85f6blr/Screenshot%202013-12-22%2015.08.44.png

I click ignore and carry on but it's a pain all the same. 
Lots Of Things Will Be Improved 
It's really too much to list right now, but most importantly TB2 will have support for other games than Quake. 
Fifth 
Please provide a reproducible test case. 
Ve Got A Few As Well 
That I've been meaning to post.

The most interesting one seems to be having a selection out of view, which causes a cascade error message which continues even when closing the editor itself and has to be closed from the OS.

I believe this is down to map size though.

Will post it when I get near a PC. 
SW... 
it happens every time I enter the entity menu. Dunno if it's a compatibility thing or the build I'm using but it happens every time. I'm using build 368. 
You Mean The Context Menu? 
 
Yep. 
just click an entity and dragging into the work area seems to produce the pop up error. 
What? 
So the entity browser, or more precisely, dragging entities from there to the 3D view is the problem rather than the context (right click) menu in the 3D view? 
Sorry, Im Being A Fool 
Dragging the entities from the bar on the right into the 3d workspace is causing the pop up error message. Like I said, I click ignore and I can still work, but the pop up is a nuisance. 
 
Using right click does not produce an error. 
5th 
Post on the board, it's right there in the header! 
Right 
I'm already aware of that problem, I will fix it in TB2. 
 
As a general warning, be wary of clicking ignore. While you may be able to continue using the editor, behind the scenes some things may have stopped working or processes within the editor may not have completed successfully. I would recommend saving to a new filename and restarting the editor to be safe. 
 
well since that happens upon every click of the window pane and every entity dragged into the work space that would take forever. Not had any problems with the maps other than some wandering vertices (which, can I say, is the biggest issue I seem to have in general, I like to throw down a lot of brushes in between tests and having to go back and redo entire areas due to wandering vertices makes me not want to map). 
Fifth 
Make sure to enable the "force integer plane points" option in the map properties. The other problem is likely related to Windows 8 or your Surface tablet, but I'll try to fix it for TB 2. Or you could just use the context menu to create entities instead of dragging them from the palette. 
SleepwalkR 
Win7 has that issue too. 
Yeah... 
I'll persevere. I clicked force integer plane points after I went back and corrected everything. I thought this caused problems though?? 
No, It's The Other Way Round 
Not having integer coords causes problems. 
Wait... 
why is this not default?! 
It's A Long Story 
but it will be different in TB2, trust me. This has caused too many problems for too many people. 
Yeah 
It's a bugbear. With it on there's less precision, with it off you can produce bad geometry. I turned it off, then bound 'snap verticies' to the space bar and hit that whenever I'm vertex editing brushwork. 
Compiling On A Mac 
First off, add me to the chorus of folks praising this editor. Even more mind-blowing is that it runs Mac-native -- thanks!

Anyway, I wanted to know if there were any Mac GUI compiling tools out there, a la Necros' work? Yes, I have TyrUtils (for which I'm grateful), but I just feel a little dirty using Terminal ;) . For that matter, is there any chance of in-editor compiling arriving with TB 2? 
Thanks 
To answer your questions, there is nothing like necros' tool for OS X, and yes, in-editor compiling is on my todo list. 
Compiling On A Mac 
Huh, I wasn't aware of a Mac port for Necros' compiler. Actually, I can only find the Windows version; could you (or anybody, really) post a URL to the OS X file? 
I Think He Might Mean 
that there is literally nothing for the Mac OSX that is like Necros' compiler. 
Yup 
What drew says, only necros' tool is not a compiler but rather a compiler frontend. 
Compiling On A Mac 
Sorry, I misunderstood. TyrUtils for the time being it is, then. Thanks again! 
Rebindable Mouse Buttons 
would be a feature I request. mouse 2 bringing up the entity menu thing is annoying me because it's also the move view button and the menu pops up all the time. I'd prefer to have the menu be the alt key or mouse 3 perhaps. 
It Should Only Popup Up 
if you didn't move the mouse in between mouse down and mouse up. Does it pop up regardless of whether you moved the mouse? 
Maybe 
I have a problem with the mouse? 
Turns Out My Mouse Is Garbage... 
I don't have good luck with hardware, I don't know if this shows. 
Haha ;-) 
That's bad for you but good for me I guess - one less bug to fix. 
 
Buy a Logitech. 
I Have A Logitech... 
G400, and it is great. But as I am on the surface I tend to use the Cerulian keyboard/mouse combo thing I have. I'm looking to replace the keyboard with a type surface 2 as the keyboard I have is also garbage (but with only 1 usb port on the surface I needed an all in one thing, luckily I just bought a usb hub).
At some point I am going to get a proper desktop PC again I think, looking to get some evil genius set up involving several monitors and an all-black scheme (and fulfilling my dreams of owning a das keyboard). 
 
 
I really cannot see myself dropping so much on such a keyboard. And I'm the kind of guy who would drop lots of cash on a keyboard too. 
Heh 
I have two of those Pfu keyboards. I've been using one of them for almost 15 years. The other is stored in a closet in case the first one ever breaks. Built like a tank. 
Actually 
The ones I have are the Happy Hacking Lite 2 which are much less expensive than the one in mfx's link. Still not cheap though. 
 
For $260? Yeah, it BETTER be built like a tank. 
Well 
More like $70 for the Lite 2. Still quite a bit for a keyboard, then again, I've been using it non-stop for 15 years. The other computer in the house generally needs a keyboard replacement every year or two, so it probably all evens out in the end. 
Haha 
I just buy a clean refurbished one every year at a thrift store for a buck or 2. Most haven't ever been been out of their wrapping.

And I swear, somehow cheap keyboards type better. 
 
 
Trenchbroom EverQuest?? 
I Like The Selection Feature 
It's basically selection brushes, but it's rendered differently and it seems a bit more useful like this. 
Arrow Keys 
I can't seem to make them work for moving around in the 3D view. I found where to change this in the preferences but it just doesn't seem to take. It shows up, down, left and right as the keys but they do nothing.

I don't like the defaults at all, even at maximum speed cranking the scroll wheel is tedious and my finger starts to hurt after a while. For some reason I find the middle mouse button awkward to use. 
You Can Use WASD, Too 
Also, what are you trying to do with the Arrow keys? What OS are you on? Which version of TB? 
 
Windows 7
Mouse is a plain old Logitech M100, $10 at Walmart.

I just downloaded TrenchBroom today (and the VC runtime). It says it's version 1.1.1 Build 368. I had tried it last year on a different computer but it wouldn't work with the video card in that computer. This one is a GeForce 210 and display seems fine.

I just want to drive around in the 3D view the same way as in Worldcraft and Netradiant, arrows move forward and back and strafe right/left. Aim with mouse. Just like Quake :)

I was also having problems such as clicking on parts of the interface didn't do anything and the arrow keys wanted to act like the Tab key.

I maybe messed something up so I deleted the TrenchBroom registry key and I'll start all over. 
That's Odd 
Please try if the WASD keys work after you deleted the registry key. Also make sure that the 3D view has focus when you try to move around. Finally, TB doesn't have a property flythrough mode, i.e., you cannot use the mouse to aim while moving around with WASD, but you can right drag to emulate that. 
WASD 
is working now, but I never did like using them as controls. 
Arrows Still Don't Work 
I tried changing the wasd keys to the arrow keys, but couldn't get them to work correctly. What's weird is that they would work if the menu was popped up, otherwise nothing.

Also, why is it that none of the other actions that used the arrow keys were conflicting until I set the arrow keys as movement keys. That was kind of strange. 
That's Because The Arrow Keys Are Context Dependent 
 
Everquest 
uses Voxelfarm
http://voxelfarm.com

Author seems to be playing with editing methods from time to time. 
So It Can't Actually Be Done? 
I removed all the conflicts and had the arrow keys used only for camera movement and it wouldn't work.

So it can't actually be done even though it looks like it's set up correctly in Preferences? 
It Should Work 
if it doesn't it's a bug. You can file a bug report on github, and if it's a quick fix I'll release an update. 
Partially Transparent Textures { 
Sleep, how do I make these usable?

I remember you said the texture name can be forced by enclosing it in "" qoutes - did you mean doing this using a find and replace in Notepad++?

Will Trenchbroom respect the change?

Will it revert it to none-quoted texture names if reopened?

Will I need to redo the find and replace if duplicating brushes with their textures named in such a fashion?

All stuff I can find out by experimenting, just haven't got around to it yet and a bit of extra info would help.

Cheers 
There's No Special Support For It In TB1 
If it's really important, I'll try to hack it into the map parser, which is the source of the problem. And no, if you save it the map, it will discard all the double quotes. 
Ok 
So I can do one changeover as a test and then only worry about it for proper testing builds.

I think I can live with that for now, it's pretty easy to run a find and replace from a text editor. 
Good 
I'll make sure that TB2 doesn't choke on those. 
{ Is A Crap Implementation 
and should really be changed to _alpha or something else etc. 
Yes 
Whoever came up with that has clearly never opened a .map file in their life. 
 
I Agree 
but sadly, this doesn't matter - I'll have to fix the parser for it anyway. 
Q3 
When can we expect TB2 and Quake 3 support? 
When It's Done ;-) 
I'm sorry, but I currently have little time to work on TB. I'm constantly working on it, but I'm not making huge progress. I do expect that TB2 will be released this year, and I am currently preparing actual beta releases.

I don't know yet whether Quake 3 support will make it to TB2, but if it doesn't, it will be at the top of the list for 2.1. 
And Valve 220??? 
;) 
That Will Be Supported In TB2. 
 
TB2: BROOM HARDER 
 
 
@onetruepurple or they already fixed the issues that happen when someone puts a space in a texture name, etc.
if the exporter isn't embedding the texture name in quotes, and its importer differs from how qbsp will parse it, then that's actually a bug in the editor.
but hey, at least this little issue helps prevent the engine from bugging out on existing maps! :)


also relevant: http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-talk/other-games/5783-hexen-ii-community-work-discussion-25.html#post146557 
Facelift 
TrenchBroom 2 has a new interface that makes better use of screen space and is at the same time cleaner and less distractive:

http://i.imgur.com/z0aU4Px.png 
 
Is that a texture alignment window in the upper right?

Love it! 
 
OMG dat texture alignment window ... Think of the hours that will be saved. 
Can You Select Textures 
By 'used' and then apply transforms across the whole map? 
Not Sure 
what the texture alignment window is trying to show. It just looks like a big texture to me with lines on. Are those lines part of the brush?

For texture alignment it would be nice if we could skew textures in a similar way to Worldcraft. (you can make it angled but the horizontal stays the same)

I know not all mappers like the wait that looks but I think it would be a useful feature. 
Find And Replace 
would be a neat feature like ijed says. I currently do this in notepad if I want to make a huge change. 
 
If you've ever used a modeling app, that texture window should make you all tingly. Sure, it's still restricted to Quake's texture alignment limits but man WHAT a great idea. Being able to rotate and align faces in a UV editing style window will be SO much faster and more accurate than trying to do it in the viewport.

Unless I'm not seeing the right thing and am maybe projecting too much. :P 
5th 
Search 'UV map tool' and you'll get it. 
I've Never Opened 
a modelling app. Or should I say, I never got the point with any of my models where I was making the skins and uv maps.

It's something I intend to pick up eventually, even soonish. 
Dat Texture Alignment 
- supports Valve's 220 format, i.e., UV mapping
- snaps texture offset, scale and rotation automatically to the edges of the face being edited, that is you can
-- move the texture around and it's edges (yellow lines) will snap to the face vertices / edges
-- scale textures (by dragging the yellow lines) and they will snap to the face vertices / edges
-- rotate (by dragging the white ball on the circle) and the rotation angle will snap so that the yellow lines are aligned with the face edges

Basically, you can very quickly fit textures to faces. The only thing I haven't quite figured out is how to make it easier to align textures on adjacent faces to each other, but I'm working on that, too. 
Fuck Me 
+Window

it's / its
and other grammar and typing errors 
And Of Course 
you can drag the rotation / scaling origin (red lines / white circle) around so that you can rotate about any point on the face's boundary plane. 
I Wouldnt' Mind 
seeing this in action. Looks interesting from how you describe it.

I really hope we see support for other games soon, I wouldn't mind trying my hand at quake 2 engine games (maybe even heretic 2 or something really obscure) 
Yeah 
Quake 2 is already supported and so is Hexen 2. I see no reason why Heretic 2 shouldn't work out of the box either, I'd just need to set it up with an FGD file.

I also plan to support Half Life out of the box, and later HL2 and Quake 3. 
 
Sleepy: Are you still experimenting/planning any kind of 2d view or virtual grid on areas where they are no brushes? 
Yes 
Both, actually. TB2 will have 2D views for those who can't work without them, and it will also allow you to place a virtual grid in the 3D view. 
 
I think that defeats his objective with the editor. However I would really love to be able to create blocks of a certain size by typing in the dimensions rather than click/drag out the shape. A feature like this would have helped me a lot recently. 
Yeah, That Objective 
My original vision was "What would level editing be like if you were in the game?", which is why I didn't want to add 3D views. But after having all those long discussions with many people, I do realize that somethings are just easier to do in 2D that in 3D. But TB will always put the 3D view first, and you will only have to switch to 2D for certain special tasks when you need that kind of precision. 
 
Will v2 have more primitive options? Cylinders and such? That's something that gets me whenever I fire it up ...

This is the point when someone tells me it already supports that and I'm blind. :) 
 
Another nice feature would be something like in UEd where you can select adjacent walls.

http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Legacy:Selecting_Surfaces 
Texturing 
Something I've been doing on things like columns and curved walls is what I call "texture wrapping". It's similar to what was done in Doom editing where the texture tiles continuously across multiple surfaces with no breaks in alignment (DCK could do it automatically).

It's a pain to do in Quake because of the need to scale the texture when the surface isn't on 90 degree angles.

It might be something useful to add to Trenchbroom. I can make some screenshots if it's not clear what I'm describing. 
 
Auto scaling to compensate for off axis walls would be really nice. Hard to make it work with rotation tho. 
Auto Scaling 
will only work on surfaces which have their normal parallel to either of the coordinate planes. For arbitrary normals, all bets are off unless you're using Valve's 220 format (which you should if you're working on a new map). 
Primitives 
maybe at some point, yeah. Or, in a more generalized fashion, procedural brush generators. 
So 
Valve 220 is just something you toggle on/off in TB2?

That's awesome. 
Ijed 
Currently, there's no conversion process. You create a new map and choose whether to use standard Quake or Valve. But conversion from standard to Valve is simple. The other way around can't be done without loss of precision, though. 
Yes 
I've tried to do it by hand before and the results are unpredictable.

Stripping out the extra data also has fugly results.

Looking forward to TB2! 
 
Hammer has the alt-right click texture alignment, that will automatically align faces across edges. Ridiculously handy.

That and the targetname eyedropper are the two hammer features I really wish Radiant had. 
 
> Hammer has the alt-right click texture alignment, that will automatically align faces across edges. Ridiculously handy.

When it does this, is texture stretching also corrected for surfaces that are off axis (not on 90 degree planes), or is that already part of the Valve 220 alignment? 
#1275 
"maybe I'm projecting too much" is the best / worst unintentional pun you could make about a texture mapping feature 
New Feature 
TrenchBroom 2's live issue browser with quick fixes: http://t.co/QCJToJLhkS 
Nice 
Obligatory feature request:

'reload def / fgd file'

So that when writing / fixing one you can update with a nearby button instead of reloading the map entirely.

Probably not a common user feature though. 
Please Out That On The Issue Tracker 
 
This Can't Come Out Soon Enough. 
I really am finding a lot of texture alignment stuff to be a pain right now.

Plus the idea of being able to map for other games is a huge bonus. 
 
why does trenchbroom render everything flat for even when i choose the option render with texture? 
Because You Haven't Loaded Any Textures? 
 
 
Accidentally unbound escape from deselect, when I try to rebind it the damn thing no longer works! Am I doing something completely wrong here?1 
Also 
how the hell did I not realise that tab pretty much locks the axis you want to move along? This could have saved me so much time.... 
 
there's a manual! it's pretty good! 
When I Try To Open The Map Source For Metal Monstrosity: 
I get this error: Malformed map file: expected token of type opening parenthesis, or closing parenthesis, but found integer number at line 15, column 89 
RoQ 
Read the MM thread again carefully. 
FifthElephant 
Also, holding alt while you move the brush will lock movement to vertical only (y-axis). 
Really Now 
I went to make a sandwich and came back to this. Console says there were no errors. WTF? 
How Long Were You Gone? 
 
Hard To Say 
5 to 10 minutes(?). 
Could Be The Autosaver 
But that should have kicked in before, and others would have run into it also. Sorry, no idea what that was. Hope you didn't lose too much work. 
 
I actually lost nothing, the editor continued to work just fine. 
So Many Things I've Learned This Week... 
like double clicking a func_detail will select all the brushes in that group... or pressing alt and the arrow keys will flip the brushes 90 degrees.

I feel like a noob! 
5th 
Read the docs and have a look at the cheat sheet. All those keyboard commands are in there.

Btw, the double click behavior might change in TB2. Single click on a brush that belongs to an entity (other than worldspawn) will select all brushes in the entity. Double click to select individual brushes. Discuss. 
Do That! 
 
 
I personally prefer being able to just grab a single brush of an entity right off the bat, because most of the time, that's all I need to work with. If I need the rest, there's a shortcut to select all it's siblings.

I forget what other editor it was that selected all the brushes of an entity when you clicked just one, but it was honestly one of the most annoying parts for me. 
 
I forget what other editor it was that selected all the brushes of an entity when you clicked just one, but it was honestly one of the most annoying parts for me.

Seems like Worldcraft used to do that. On the other hand having to go to the menu and click or use a 3 key combination just to select all brushes of an entity is a pain.

Just selecting a single brush by default seems best. Maybe highlight the other brushes if the one selected is part of an entity and then use an alternate method to select the rest (double-click, shift-click, whatever...). 
Keep As-is 
It's hard to say without trying it.. but I think it would be annoying for people who use func_group/func_detail heavily. if most brushes are part of some entity, then you would have to get used to always double-clicking to select a single brush, and i'd guess that selecting a single brush is more common than selecting the whole entity. 
Worldcraft 
Once some brushes have been tied together as an entity, you click once to select the whole entity. Seems logical to me, but I've been using the same editor for freakin' years. 
As Long As 
select one or all the brushes is just as simple as one or two clicks it doesnt matter for me. 
I Think It Was Me 
That originally asked for this, just because I'd been used to Worldcraft working like that.

Now, after using TB for so long, especially managing func_groups a lot, I'm not sure which method is better.

Not quite a full 180 on opinion, more like a sharp 90. 
 
It would be nice to get some sort of simple grouping that wasn't reliant on turning the brushes into a fund_group ... then you could include entities in the group as well. 
 
It can get a little messy since you need to sprinkle stuff into the MAP file, but that's just extra parsing for Trenchbroom and if they are comment lines they won't affect the compilation at all... 
Yeah 
I want to be able to group brush and point entities. 
 
I like the way selecting entites currently works, but grouping stuff is needed yeah. 
I'm All For Grouping 
if it can be done well. I'd love a function like this as I have, at least in my latest map, a few entities together that rely on separate alpha values... 
Willem 
TB2 will feature groups and layers which are based on func_group, but extended so that you can also add entities to them.

Okay, the more I think about it, the less convinced I am of the new selection stuff for brush entities. I'll keep it was it was, i.e., one click selects one brush, and you can select all brushes of an entity with a double click or a keyboard shortcut.

Thanks! 
 
Ogre grenade arc preview.

Do it. 
 
Holy shit yes. 
 
But how? It would be much more than an arc and ogres don't stand still. 
Just Make It 
Playable in editor. 
 
Wow, I've never considered an Ogre arc preview before ... cool idea!

And how about a "Fiend will fuck up and get stuck here" marker. As long as we're asking for stuff... 
Really Interesting Idea, Lun. 
 
As Long As We're Wishing... 
While you're at it add operating doors, platforms, and animated func_train/path corner combinations, etc. (actually, I seem to remember an old version of Radiant that had some of this). 
 
Some automated way to set up pathing networks would be awesome too. Select all the path_corners you want, in the correct order, hit hot key, enter a base name, and it gives them all a unique target/targetname combo that links them together. Easy patrols. 
Yes 
Some automated way to set up pathing networks would be awesome too.

That's basically what I was saying. I'm certain there was a version of Radiant that did this. It didn't automatically name everything, but once you had it set up it would animate it in the editor and you could see the stuff move in the 3D view the same as it would in game.

It's possible it was a plug-in of some kind. I remember using it when I was working on a Quake 2 map, maybe 10 years ago. 
Automated Pathing 
I will try to make entity "scripting" easier, that is, provider some way for quickly setting up paths and logic gates. I don't think I'll be doing in-editor animation though because that would be very specific for every game, and TB2 is not going to be limited to Quake. 
Degrading Behaviour 
I've been having some fun messing around with Trenchbroom on my poor old laptop here, and I've found a way to reduce the complexity of the face shader (at a small cost to quality). If you've previously hit an error when launching Trenchbroom and would like to try tweaking it to see if reduced graphics settings help, then open up Face.fragsh in the Resources folder in a text editor, and change the getSoftStripes function as follows:

float getSoftStripes(float value, float gridSize, float stripeSize) {
  float mainVal = value * gridSize;
  float triangle = abs(2.0 * fract(mainVal) - 1.0);

  float sSize = stripeSize;

  return step(sSize, triangle);
}

This gets rid of the anti-aliasing on the lines and the bolder lines every 64 units, so you wouldn't want to apply it generally, but if your graphics card is as weak as mine it might just get things running! 
 
IIRC, AFAIK, BBQ, ( TB1 at least ) didn't do an Early Z Prepass or similar, so shaders are potentially invoked quite a lot, even if the fragments don't end up visible.

Whats your laptop's hardware like ?
Do you know which OpenGL Version it runs ? 
Thanks 
I put this in the issue tracker and I'll add it when I get around to it. Maybe there are a few other places where I could disable some stuff to get better performance. 
Hey, Whoa, No 
Unless you're gonna put a low-graphics fallback or option in don't go adding it in blindly. You lose features, I only wanted it to be there for people who can't use Trenchbroom otherwise. Loving the editor btw, really is quick and intuitive to use. 
Yes 
I would only add this together with other features which would make the editor usable for people with low end hardware, basically like a "safe mode" option.

And thanks for the nice words, happy that you like it! 
 
yeah, went back to radiant for a bit and while the 2d views are useful, it felt awkward and slow working in radiant's 3d view. 
2D Views Are Coming To TB2 
Yeah, I caved. Some things are easier to do in 2D than in 3D. TB2 will have two layouts, a Hammer-like 4-pane view for incest enthusiasts and a full size layout where you toggle between 3D and XY, XZ and YZ views with the tab key. 
Maybe Another Layout 
With 3D view and 2D view side by side, using tab to cycle through the 2D views. 
 
2d view is good for making accurate measurements, something I really found difficult when I first started with trenchbroom. I don't feel like I need it much now, infact it may have been a bit of a crutch.

I'm looking forward to 2 things from next versions of TB, making maps for other games and making quake maps with 220 format texture accuracy. 
 
a Hammer-like 4-pane view for incest enthusiasts

lmao, but yeah, thanks for this. I love 4 views. I find the single view at a time way too limiting; having access to all 3 axes at onces helps me keep a better overview of what's going on. A nice toggle to go straight to full screen 3d (maybe camera centered on current or last selected brush/entity?) would be fantastic. The more fluid 2d <-> 3d, the better!

I don't feel like I need it much now, infact it may have been a bit of a crutch.
I often have to make 'measurement' brushes to get the precision I want which slows things down for me. But even with that, I still prefer TB to anything else right now. 
I've Read That Trenchbroom Has Support For Huge Maps 
how do I enable that feature? 
What Do You Mean By Huge? 
I think TB currently limits you to -8192 to +8192, if you need to raise those limits, then this is currently not supported. 
I'm Outside Those Limits 
But those areas aren't playable.

To enable the feature:

Step 1: Build a huge map 
*I Ment Large, Sorry 
 
Grumpy Today 
As SleepWalkR says, there is the +/- 8192 limit, but this is only visible in engine.

In many editors (WC is an exception) this limit is not even visible and you can just keep building forever.

Trenchbroom is like this, at least in current release version; without anything delineated to say 'won't work beyond this point'.

In any case this is an engine limitation; I don't think it'd be good to retrofit TB to impose it as well since that'd affect development for other games.

I think FTE allows for gameplay outside the 8192 limit in Q1 as well. 
 
Its +/- 4k, 8k range.

And its a protocol limit rather than a random engine limit (read: makes stuff incompatible).
Some engines always use more wasteful/precise coords(DP). Some engines guess at map startup and probably get it wrong half the time(FTE). Some engines hack the protocol and probably crash. Others just crash outright. And others will just wrap coords in a really buggy sort of way because noone hacked them to do weird stuff yet (the inevitable fate of all quake engines - doing weird stuff).

BSP format limit is +/- 32k, due to the use of shorts in the node+leaf structs. This can be worked around, but its not pretty.

QBSP has an expectation that all geometry will be within +/- 99k.


Anyway, geometry outside the +/- 4k limit is fine (distant details or whatever) in any engine, so long as entity/effects don't leave the boundary.
Maybe generate a clip brush on the boundary the first time something gets put beyond it, just to make a point, or a popup message warning them or something. Otherwise, let the mapper shoot themselves in the foot if they really want to.

Limiting yourself to 18-year-old limits is stupid. 
I've Got 
Rocks and stuff beyond fences and out of windows, plus a train arriving from 'far away'.

Also some walls and stuff that if I moved 32 units would send the player to an alternate dimension, if they stepped up close. 
 
Limiting yourself to 18-year-old limits is stupid.

0/10 flamebait, try harder. 
 
@onetruepurple:
An editor that intentionally cripples its users is never a good thing. This is the TrenchBroom thread after all, not the 'I hate everything that wasnt made by id' thread.

oh noes! people might use it for things that are not cripply faithful! we can't have that! get the pitchfork!

its stupid, and its not helpful. 
@ijed 
A train moving in from "Far away" is an entity as are any lights and so on, and entities outside the +/-4k limit can cause bad things to happen. This is Quake, not Far Cry or something like that that may seem unlimited.

You can try the huge clipping brush barrier to keep the player inside the limits or make a detail brush with a skip texture that will also effect entities unlike a clipping brush. 
 
bsp entities tend to have an origin of '0 0 0'. they can start outside and move 4k qu in any direction without a problem - so long as the player, other pointentities (lights are okay), or projectiles/shotguns can't enter that region. 
Yeah 
It's already in and working - func_trains don't cause any problems as far as I can tell. 
Although 
The path_corners are outside - I assume this isn't causing trouble because they don't do anything.

I did have the train teleporting to the world 0,0 (and being invisible) at one point but this was bad qc / configuration of the path corners. 
O_O 
ijed literally pushes the boundaries 
Off A Cliff 
Then I map where they landed at the bottom.

Then I whinge that it's taking too long to finish.

After mapping the group of tourists taking photographs of where the boundries landed from some distance away. Etc etc. 
IJed 
so your new map is even bigger than your Warpspasm levels?

Is it as evil? :) 
#1348 - Split 2D-3D Layout 
I like that way of working usually. 
It's Bigger 
Not sure about evil since it doesn't have the music.

Although considering the corpses decorating it, hidden altars and stuff, creepy ambient sounds from Spiney and the Rubicon setting... maybe.

I never really think about making my maps evil. They just happen that way :D 
Support For Source Games? 
Would be possible to add support for source engine (HL2, CS:GO, Portsl 1/2) games? Because Hammer is very outdated tool and Source needs something like Trenchbroom. 
Yes 
This is definitely on my todo list for TB2. If you're willing to help out be testing and discussing necessary features, then get in touch via email: kristian.duske@gmail.com - same if you know someone who is serious about giving TB2 support for these features. I will only do it if there is someone who helps out by describing requirements and doing testing. Otherwise it's just not possible as I don't know these engines very well. 
I Will Always Test!!! 
I have almost every id tech game ever made!! 
I Need Someone Who Will Work On Actual Maps For These Games 
otherwise it's just not possible to fine tune the support for these games. 
I Started Making A Heretic 2 Map 
But it was a nightmare working with quark. Hell I will make a map for every game!! 
 
I think he's asking for someone who is well versed in each game so they can tell him the nuances and subtleties that are wrong. He can test raw map compilation himself. :) 
Bitch I Am Leet 
 
Lol 
Heretic2 would also be on the list of games which could be supported. For now I have Quake 2 and Hexen 2, and it would be cool to find people who work with those games. 
 
You ask like I haven't got those 2 games installed ;) 
Well 
If you want to make a Quake 2 map, then the easiest way to get at the current betas is to install dropbox and give me your dropbox email so that I can invite you to the beta folder. 
 
gavin.edgington[at]gmail[dot]com 
Protip: Sort The Files By Date To Find The Latest Betas. 
 
 
So far I feel like this is kind of a huge step back in a lot of ways from version 1.

- bring back ctrl d duplicate. Please.
- Would like to bind keys without needing ctrl as a modifier, I like to snap to grid using space bar (like all the time). That is unless you have fixed the issue of wandering vertices
- Would like to WASD without having to press F first (it seems terrible that this is a toggle), and allow flying to be back to the speed it used to be.
- bring back the reset button for textures
- bring back copy face attributes feature (when a face is selected press alt and left click on another face)
- would like to be able to work in a window straight away rather than having to select it, like in tb 1
- would be nice to have the old black void rather than pure white. Or at least allow is to choose our own colour
- would be neat if TB showed us when we were getting to the map border (+/- 4096 units)
- make it easier to select the frame to adjust the size of the windows please, right now it feels like I have to select something 1 pixel thick
- why can I no longer add my own keys to entities? Please bring this feature back
- The texture rotating thingy on the face
manipulator is way too sensitive to be of any use at all, this would be better as a slider IMO. Less fancy but I would rather have something that works.

-might be worth having the texture implimentation that I *think* is in quark, that is it just grabs the textures from the .bsp files rather than having to find the appropriate wad file.
I dunno how this works with compiling though? It might be a better way of getting the textures though instead of searching around online.

I am tempted to flesh out maps in TB1 and then use TB2 to finish off the very last bits. I suppose this defeats the point of having a new TB though. 
Fifth 
First of all, remember that this is a complete rewrite. Some features might just have been forgotten, so please do create feature requests for the stuff you're missing.

- bring back ctrl d duplicate. Please.

Add a feature request to the issue tracker. But you can now duplicate by Ctrl+LMB drag or by Ctrl+Arrow key as well, so I'm not sure whether Ctrl+d is still necessary.

- Would like to bind keys without needing ctrl as a modifier, I like to snap to grid using space bar (like all the time). That is unless you have fixed the issue of wandering vertices

This is simple impossible due to the fact that some OSs don't allow this and it basically rendered the editor useless on Linux. That said, some actions which are only useful in the 3D view can be bound to single keystroke hotkeys, and I can add the snap command to those if you wish. Please create a feature request.

- Would like to WASD without having to press F first (it seems terrible that this is a toggle), and allow flying to be back to the speed it used to be.

The fly speed can be set in the preferences. WASD can be always on, please create a feature request.

- bring back the reset button for textures

That's already on the todo list.

- bring back copy face attributes feature (when a face is selected press alt and left click on another face)

That should already work, but you have to hold Ctrl+Alt to copy the face attributes too. Without ctrl it will only copy the texture.

- would like to be able to work in a window straight away rather than having to select it, like in tb 1

That was never the case in TB1. You have to click a view to focus it - how else should the view get focus?

- would be nice to have the old black void rather than pure white. Or at least allow is to choose our own colour

Feature request.

- would be neat if TB showed us when we were getting to the map border (+/- 4096 units)

Already on the todo list.

- make it easier to select the frame to adjust the size of the windows please, right now it feels like I have to select something 1 pixel thick

Yes, this is a problem, but I'm reluctant to make the dividers thicker as it looks shit. I'll think of a solution for this, but it shouldn't be such a huge problem now because TB2 remembers your window layout.

- why can I no longer add my own keys to entities? Please bring this feature back

That's a bug ;-). Please make a bug report.

- The texture rotating thingy on the face
manipulator is way too sensitive to be of any use at all, this would be better as a slider IMO. Less fancy but I would rather have something that works.


You can have more precision by increasing the radius. Just start your drag and move away from the circle center. Also notice how the textures are snapped to the face edges to make alignment easier.

-might be worth having the texture implimentation that I *think* is in quark, that is it just grabs the textures from the .bsp files rather than having to find the appropriate wad file.
I dunno how this works with compiling though? It might be a better way of getting the textures though instead of searching around online.


I don't think getting and using wad files is such a problem. Notice that you can add wad files simply by dragging them onto the editor window from Explorer.

I am tempted to flesh out maps in TB1 and then use TB2 to finish off the very last bits. I suppose this defeats the point of having a new TB though.

Yes, it does. I can only repeat that this is beta software and stuff is still missing. The point of being a beta tester is to report these things. 
To Add An Entity Property 
Just hit Ctrl+Enter. Sorry, that's not very obvious I know. 
 
This is simple impossible due to the fact that some OSs don't allow this and it basically rendered the editor useless on Linux. That said, some actions which are only useful in the 3D view can be bound to single keystroke hotkeys, and I can add the snap command to those if you wish. Please create a feature request.

Can this just be required on Linux? I've been resorting to hacking the registry keys... :D 
You Will Get Into Trouble 
because those shortcuts might no longer work in text fields etc.

If there are functions which you feel must have a one key shortcut, then they must not be menu items, and they can only be available when the 3D view has focus. And no, I won't make this a Linux only requirement because it has created a nightmare of problems in the past, and it violates the UI guidelines of Windows and Mac OS X. 
But 
if there are such functions, then I'll gladly move them from the menu to the 3D view, where they can have any shortcut you want. 
I Will Be Back 
At some point to give usable feedback.

So far I haven't tried the TB2 builds, but will. 
 
off the top of my head:

Clip mode: x (I would actually prefer if you could flat out drop clip points without having to enter a mode at all)
Entity editor: n (like simulating radiant)
Face editor: t (radiant again...)
Deselect: Esc
Grid size: 1-9
Grid snap off: 0
Grid display: g
Freeze selection: f
Hide selection: h

Basically, modifier keys suck. While I am a firm believer in GUI and control standards when it comes to generic applications (eg: Winforms, web), with specialized applications like this one, I lean more towards efficiency and speed. 
Please 
put this in the issue tracker. It will just get lost here. 
Beta Request Is Possible? 
Hello SleepwalkR,

Been away for ages but its nice to see you still working on the new revamped editor. Possible for access to the beta version as well? If so awesome. My mail is rbanninga[at]gmail[dot]com

Does the current beta work with quake 2 map editing or still quake 1 at the moment? Sorry if this was already covered in the discussion above

Regards 
Skiffy 
it does hexen 2 and quake 2 editing. I haven't tried quake 2 editing yet but I will be doing it soon. 
Just Fyi 
I wouldn't call TB2 in beta really. It's more of an alpha. There are a lot of feature just plain missing, and many things do not function 100% correct just yet. You can't really use it to make a map. 
Please Add All Missing Features 
To the issue tracker. That would be very helpful. 
Trying To Add As Much As Possible 
sorry dude I have been really busy, you did mention to add things to this thread though. I'll try and keep stuff github as well (though I still get a bit confused on where things are on there). 
Thanks 
 
I'm Probably Bringing Up Old Issues And Such... 
...but I can't get the stable release of TrenchBroom 1.1.1 to work properly. The two main issues I'm having are crashes when either choosing the vertex tool or trying to drag and drop certain entities. I didn't quite know where to put these issues, nor could I find any fixes for them. Sorry if I'm not posting in the right places. 
Go To Preferences 
And set OpenGL instancing to force off. That should fix the vertex tool. As for the other issue, I need more info, such as your OS and steps to reproduce. 
Thank You! 
The OpenGL setting fixed the vertex tool for me. My OS is Windows 7 64 bit, my graphics accelerator is built into the processor, an Intel 4000 HD. I saw the entity issue on the GitHub issue tracker, and supposedly a driver update should have fixed the problem, but I'm sure my drivers are up to date. 
Well Then 
Which entities crash the editor when you try to drag them? 
Well I Think I Got It To Work... 
I rolled back the driver to a previous version which seems to have fixed it for me, but the entities that previously crashed the editor were the ones that are represented by a 3d model. Now the editor runs fine, thanks for all your help!! 
 
this editor.......
from this to this took 30 minutes.

Literally just built one section of that inner circle bit, started rotating, then just lopped off a few bits that were poking out. And yes, that is a 32 sided outer circle and a 16 sided inner one.

I feel like I have been waiting my whole life for this editor. 
Bah 
should have mentioned to not deceive anyone, this is with the beta of TB2. 
Necros 
That is amazing, it looks so perfect, you just rotated, no errors? 
 
This proves once more that SleepwalkR is but a giant troll. Being able to create nice curves and angled architecture used to be a real skill; in TB you just press rotate and it's done. Even the greatest noobs like skacky and mfx can now pull things off. Disappointing. 
Looks Great. 
Anytime I try anything so crazy in TB ends with me getting some wandering vertices and stuff and the next time I load up the map it turns into my worst nightmare of fixing.

Unless nightmare time has been fixed? 
Necros 
This looks great!
With the geometry inside this ring, is it possible now to compile it with "vanilla" qbsp?
(without max_windings raised?) 
That's My Secret Plan 
Making Quake editing easy ;-) 
 
hipshot: yep, all rotation. you can set the origin of the rotation in TB2, so I move that into the center of the ring and set the rotation angle to 11.25 and rotate as I paste copies.
I simplified a bit of course, there is some preparation:
First you build the section a little wider than it should be.
Then you make two copies and rotate them to both sides of the original.
Next, use clipping to remove excess brushwork so there is no of very little overlap.
Now, delete the two extra copies and you can start copying the original again.
mfx: no clue... haven't switched back from rebb's compiler since you mentioned it last time. i would suspect no, though, because when I check this out with r_drawflat and r_showtris, I can see some faces have absolutely tons of edges... 
Tons Of Edges? 
What do you mean? 
 
It's a product of the compilation process, not the editor. :)

Essentially, all the rotated stuff creates so many intersections with the floor that you end up with faces that have large numbers of edges.

You can see this when you turn on both r_drawflat and r_showtris: you find a surface that shares the same colour which is 1 face, and then count all the edges from showtris. 
 
other editors have rotate functions, too. always had. there's more reasons than the editor that people usually don't try that, like the near 100% likelihood of point on plane or winding errors and the heinously messy geometry that results. 
 
mfx: I checked and this map does compile with normal compilers. the map where I was getting this error was a much crazier map that I was using for testing.
With the added brushwork on the ground, there are now extra splits on the faces which reduce the number of edges on each face.
I suspect that if I started seeing winding errors, I could just easily go into areas with that kind of problem and force qbsp to split those faces either by offsetting textures a small amount or by placing brushwork in the middle to cause intersections. 
Yup 
thanks for checking necros. i was asuming the same. 
Someone Made TB1 Work With Quake 2 - 
That's Cool! 
Thanks for posting, fifth! 
 
Uh... Why do I keep getting this?

Unloading existing map file and textures...
Loading file D:\Games\Games\Quake\id1\maps\test3.map
Assuming floating point plane coordinates
Malformed map file: expected token of type string, but found integer number at line 6, column 51
Loaded map file in 0.003000 seconds

Even in the autosave map? 
Well 
What's at line 6 in the map file? 
Yeah 
Open it up in a text editor - but I suspect you've got a texture with a numerical only name. 
Well 2.0 
{
"spawnflags" "0"
"classname" "worldspawn"
"wad" "D:\Games\Games\Quake\id1\t2.wad;D:\Games\Games\Quake\id1\quake101.wad"
{
( 352 -272 256 ) ( 352 -272 -0 ) ( 224 -272 256 ) 2 -0 -0 -0 1 1
( 224 -272 256 ) ( 224 -272 -0 ) ( 224 -176 256 ) 2 -16 -0 -0 1 1
( 352 -272 -0 ) ( 352 -144 -0 ) ( 224 -272 -0 ) 2 -0 16 -0 1 1
( 352 -144 256 ) ( 224 -176 256 ) ( 352 -144 -0 ) 2 -0 -0 -0 1 1
( 352 -144 256 ) ( 352 -144 -0 ) ( 352 -272 256 ) 2 -16 -0 -0 1 1
( 352 -272 256 ) ( 224 -272 256 ) ( 352 -144 256 ) 2 -0 16 -0 1 1
( 224 -208 -0 ) ( 352 -144 -0 ) ( 224 -176 256 ) 2 -0 -0 -0 1 1 
 
Yes I do, I named my tex 1 2 3 just for testing, that's bad in Q1? 
 
1.wad

Is that in the file, or just func formatting? 
Or That 
Yes, rename the textures. 
Texture Names Containing Only Numbers 
cause TB1 to go balls up. No idea if qbsp will handle them fine, but TB1 doesn't like it. 
 
One thing I find quiet annoying, when I create a new brush, it's spaced away from the camera, so it can go below or to close to the camera if I'm far away from where I want it. Maybe there's already a setting for it, but can't brushes just appear "on" the brush you aim at when you create one? 
Hmm 
When you draw a brush, TB will position it on the face which was under the mouse when you started dragging. Brushes are created on the XY plane by default, but you can change the height of the brush by hold the Alt key during the drag.

Or maybe I didn't understand what you mean? 
 
i've been meaning to create an issue for this, but sometimes the brush goes inside the surface... 
^ God Damnit 
 
 
actually, while i'm here, just dumping something so i remember... shortcut to make new brush appear snapped to face that would normally be moved (ie: face under cursor or face linked to the zone when face is not pointing toward camera) 
SleepwalkR 
Thanks, I didn't know that's how it worked. Now when I know, I always keep the pointer above the brush I want to build from. 
Keys? 
How about using numpad 1-9 to change the grid AND also numpad + and -? Cause now I need to do ctrl+/-.

Sorry if my questions are basic and has been asked before. I'm new. 
Hipshot 
Look at the docs and the main menu. You'll find all shortcuts there. Also check out the keyboard preferences. 
Necros 
In TB2, Ctrl+Shift+Drag will create a new brush instead of resizing. 
 
i almost never drag out new brushes. i think that might be worth discussing too. 
This Feature Is Part Of The Resize Tool 
 
yeah, thanks, i just haven't had a chance to check anything out yet. :)

#1433 was mainly for a different subject I want to bring up later... 
Skip 
Been going through the settings and so, but I can't find a setting to set the default texture? I would love to have the skip texture as the default one... 
^^Why Would Someone Do That? 
 
You Can't 
There is no default texture in TB. 
 
Ok, cause when I compile I get some red/black checker texture, thought that was the "default" one, I guess that's just an "missing texture"-texture then. 
 
Yeah, that's the default Quake "I couldn't find the texture" texture. 
#1434 
Ok, after using this feature, I see how it is basically what I was talking about in #1433. 
No Smart Editor Available? 
Trenchboom doesn't like me. 
Lol 
That's an interesting interpretation ;-) 
 
It would be nice if the filter list could include func_detail =) 
Corrupting Funky Curves And Angles 
when building structures like this with less than ideal geometry (http://i.imgur.com/LOFODUj.jpg) if you use the duplicate function (ctrl+D) and then align it, the brushes tend to be broken with the edges and vertexes off of the grid, slightly resized and moved. Some faces are also split into having 5 sides and everything tends to get all kind of janky. Sorry my screenshot doesn't show the result of geometry getting screwy. However it can be repeated by doing something like it.

However, building it by creating a unique brush for every bit of geometry as opposed to using the duplicate tool makes it work. 
What Do You Mean By "align It"? 
 
Reblinds 
There is a function that allows you to snap to grid. I have mine bound to the spacebar and I hit it every time I edit a vertice or duplicate a complex brush. 
Reblinds 
There is a function that allows you to snap to grid. I have mine bound to the spacebar and I hit it every time I edit a vertice or duplicate a complex brush. 
I'm Missing Something. 
If you snap every brush to integers every time you touch anything, why exactly haven't you just turned off float precision? 
 
Because even with forced integers, TB can create offgrid geometry sometimes (vertex editing is particularly tricky). 
Whether Vertices Have Integer Coords Or Not 
has no relation to the plane points being integer or not. 
 
Would it be possible to have an vertice integer snap mode or would that produce problems?? 
It's Generally Not Possible For Anything Beyond 
brushes which consist of all triangles. 
While Typing I Realised It Would Be A Terrible Feature Request So Here 
Re: https://twitter.com/kristianduske/status/508004011023540225 "TrenchBroom 2 now has a layer system. Layers can be hidden and locked individually."

Please add some more options:

"Exclude from compile"

"Hide all layers but this one"

Being able to group layers into (multi-level) groups would be great.

Also being able to assign colors to layers/groups.

Can you duplicate layers?

Can you drag'n'drop prefabs from the TB Store into the list????

Maybe check out how QuArK does things, random link to its documentation where you can see some of the GUI and features: http://quark.sourceforge.net/infobase/maped.tutorial.advanced.html#grouptechniques 
Please Go Away 
Feature requests go to the issue tracker, please.

Btw, if Quark does something in one way, then it's very likely I'll choose the opposite direction. Quark is a UI nightmare. 
Hehe 
 
Feature Request: 
Make it possible to request features in this thread. 
No 
I don't have time to move stuff from here to the issue tracker. I really just don't. 
 
moved the first two. the third was already talked about. fourth is not that useful. fifth would just by copy/paste and make new layer. 
Thanks 
Agree on your verdicts. If anyone disagrees, they can open an issue on github. 
 
Thanks necros!

Sleepwalkr: That's like saying iOS is a UI nightmare just because the back button is at the most far away place in the top left. Quark does lots of things very well and editors could oh well your decision. 
 
Which BSP compiler is recommended for Trenchbroom maps? I'm beta testing 2.0 and I sometimes get into situations where my alignment in the editor doesn't match the alignment in the game. Passing in "-oldaxis" just moves the problems to other faces so I'm wondering if there's a specific BSP compiler that is known to work well with TB.

Also, a link directly to it would be appreciated. :) 
Spirit 
Sorry for the tone earlier. I know you like Quark, but I don't like its interface at all. I surely has a lot of useful features, but every time I try to use it, nothing works intuitively they way I expect it. That's why I consider it a nightmare. 
Willem 
that may be a bug actually. i'm taking a bit of a break from testing right now, but i did notice that in some cases, faces at 45 degrees wouldn't match up in game. in fact, adjacent coplanar faces wouldn't match up with alignment either AND once you reload the map, the faces would go back to the old broken alignment. I can't figure out what particular circumstances causes that though. 
 
btw: i am using rebb's txqbsp (based on aguirre's txqbsp) without the old/alt axis switch. 
Willem 
I'm using Tyrann's:

http://www.disenchant.net/

With -oldaxis but haven't run into the problems you describe, since I turned it on. 
I'll Check It Out Soon 
I'm in the middle of a big refactoring right now and can't work on the bugs. 
Tyranns Tools Seconded 
pretty much what I use exclusively. 
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