These are serious maps, not for the faint-hearted. A bit rough around the edges, and a few gameplay flaws, but I really like them:

Good stuff:
+ A lot of good gameplay on hard skill - solid, relentless, but usually fair.
+ Nice that you get all the weapons but they reset to maintain the challenge.
+ Fair use of Quoth monsters for a change.
+ Layout and progression is crazy, possibilities to take shortcuts and skip sections is really good - disorientating but adds to the interest AND replayability.
+ Good mix of epic designs and tighter interconnecting bits.
+ Very good secrets.

Bad stuff:
- Some lava bits far too easy to die in.
- A few gameplay traps too hard and inhibit first time playing.
- More health was needed in some areas.
- Had a slightly scrappy feel to some areas and some texture combinations.

A good swansong I think :) 

Quick response:-

Some secrets are hard: if they we all easy they wouldn't be secrets, would they. Admittedly, two in This_Garlic were particularly hard: jumping through the red window, and shooting the imp blocking the way to the quad(or just jumping onto him). Not intuitive I agree.

Couldn't run the demo of the slaughter room problem; all the entities showed up but the brushwork was invisible? Maybe a Darkplaces problem but I only use Fitzquake.

On This Onion, you can jump to get the gold key early if you really want to - no deliberate snagging points there

Trigger_bastard vs impulse9 (I had to try to vary it a bit on such a big map)

No plans to release the source directly but the progs.dat can be decompiled (there's nothing in there that you guys can't program more efficiently than me but if there's something you want, just let me know)

There was no way the map could have been this big and stayed within all limits (just look at the terrain for a start)

Seems to be more + than - enjoyment, so I am happy. As long as one other person gets something out of it, I feel pretty smug :) 

By the way, your explosion sprites worked a treat. I used them at the Vermis death in This Onion (the second one, when it sinks belkow the lava is particularly effective).

I also used them when the Guardians explode although that doesn't work quite so well due to timing, which I never got quite right. 

@Couldn't run the demo of the slaughter room problem

Yeh recorded in DP, the monsters stay on the upper bridge and dont drop down 

If you jump up to the area that is behind the silver-key door before getting the silver key, the push triggers and monster jumps are turned off. If you then drop down into the arena, and activate the monster spawning, they cannot get down to the arena and you will have trouble killing them - you can do it from below but it is not as planned, and your sense of enjoyment and wonder will be diminished :(

Other than that, I also just noticed that Darkplaces does not do fog the same as FitzQ, so it doesn't look as pretty. And also, the 'dead' ogres are not placed correctly on the floor - they still work but don't look right. 

There was no way the map could have been this big and stayed within all limits (just look at the terrain for a start)

No doubt splitting the original map was the right thing to do. But what I meant by possible vanilla optimization is the exceeding of the edicts limit in the first map ("only" around 40 less required) and the lightmaps (65 instead of 64) in the third. 

Also how the fuck do you get the GA at the start of map1, that drove me mad!! 

GA: shootable switch hard to spot from where you need to be although you can see it easily later on and can see the GA coming out of its cubby hole but you can't get to it from down there(bastard, eh?)

http://www.freefilehosting.net/thisonionga 

Map 1 - GA : There is a book in the GA room with the word "shoot"! Took me forever to see it. A bit extreme for a GA.
Map 1 - Zombie pit (directly below MH on wooden beam) - No idea how the grate in the floor opens. no buttons, no clues.
Map 1 - RA on an alcove in main lava room, directly below starting area. No clues how the little door opens.

Map 2 - The broken red window is below the fancy wooden bridge over the chasm of lava. How you jump to that window is beyond me! Spent ages diving into lava and burning to a crisp.

My favourite secrets:
Map 1 - RL at beginning, totally amazing route, love it.
Map 1 - The extra supplies in the first button rooms (lots of dark alcoves on either side). The button even moves on skill level!?! The way the bars slide apart is a fantastic idea.
Map 1 - Thunderbolt and lightning very very frighting! Priceless! :)
Map 2 - YA under fancy wooden bridge, brilliant route
Map 2 - Gargoyle jump to Quad, awesome idea

Played all the maps a second time on Hard (Does anyone else play maps on all skill levels?) and there is a big difference on monster layout. Also feels like some monsters take more damage which feels wrong to me. IMHO health should be consist across skill levels. 

This one is hard (for me anyway as I don't have good mouse skills). Firstly you have to spot that there is something different about the window. Then you have to think enough about it to waste a shell or spike on it. Then you seen the gap, and then you jump.

Two methods that I can do: one, straight onto the window cill; two, onto the parapet, then back off that and drop onto the arch's keystone, then onto the cill, then through the window. It leads to a short cut and you can sneak up on a couple of monsters.

http://www.freefilehosting.net/thisgarlicwindow

Apologies for the crap hosting, should just click and open. I'll look for something better if more shots are needed. 

I had not enjoyed playing a quake map like I did with this since at very last 3/4 years (no kidding, the game sorta grew stale on me).
Guess you got me back into the fold, so thanks a lot!

I ran twice through the sucka and found all secrets and man, were they fun!!!
I found them very "Painkillerish", which, in my book, is a good thing. Really rewards exploration.

I only have 2 minor gripes, both in the 2nd map:
1 - The first time I ran through it, I completely skipped half of it by accident, when the intermission screen came up I was tempted to reload, but did not want to disrupt the flow. It's great to have route choices and freedom, but maybe I would have liked more some hint pointing downstairs before exiting...

2- SPOILER: ...which leads us to the Pentagram secret: I found it a bit annoying having just one chance to get it, since the elevator does not come back down after being activated [the same as the GA atop the railing in some other map that I cannot remember now (1,2 or 3) , come to think of it]. That can be very easily missed.

More in general, I don't like maps that lock down and don't let you roam freely in the end to hunt secrets down, but that's just me...

@ sock:
MAP1
The first GA is easily reached grenade jumping, even if one does not find the kosher "shoot me" book.

SPOILER Zombie grate SPOILER:
Just shoot the grate.

SPOILER Red Armor SPOILER:
Try looking at the main structure pillars from the platform where the music switch is...

MAP2
Jumping from the bridge overlooking the broken window is possible. You land on the sill and the keep on jumping and cursing until you're able to get inside... ;)


Thanks again for a true masterpiece, Mike. Sad to see you move to other pastures... 

Ah, tried that and did it first go. Cool secret. So much detail in these secrets.

I like the few one-shot secrets, surprisingly. Just goes with the style of the maps. 

@the silent, you have to shoot the hinge of the grate to make it drop, which sort of makes sense, but it was missing the visual language! Secrets ending in frustration don't feel good when complete. 

I did shoot a DS round, so I did not catch the fact that you had to shoot the hinge. Bullets spread did the trick...

Tbh, I think that I opened it first time by chance in the process of circle strafing ogres while DSing... 

Once you have the gold key, make your way top of the tower (use RL if your way is locked). Jump at the roof of the final buildings whose door is the golden door. Quickly jump in front of the golden door and enter in before guardians attack kill you. If you get the pentagram before jumping down on the roof it will be a lot easier. 

If you play on Hard and find the runes, you get a small treat at the end of the map (don't expect too much!)

Two runes are visible but not easy to get to; two runes are hidden and require exploration. Some jumping is required but no trick jumps. 

Completed it once with 3 runes and a pent, and then again with 4 runes, I didn't get any treats, I want chocolate or something... 

...my dear... 

I am SO sorry, I hadn't spotted the "Chocolate bonus fell out of level at 0,0,0" error. I guess that's my mapping career well and truly over then :( 

Is where this joint really shines.

Epic. (Death Knights by the dozen in narrow corridors armed only with shotgun suck Mean Bananas, though).

Did not find any difference (apart from the obvious) in map 3. Played on Hard, got all secrets, got all runes... What would the "nominally different ending" be? 

 

htH x 

try down in the big lava cave. 

got the one in the lava cave so obviously missing some other one.

Anyhow, decided to not look anymore for it and just got the pent secret to get past the guardians. Anticlimactic end with the 4 ogres behind the door but everything up until then I really really liked.

Gameplay was occasionally more of a grind than fun but it wasnt as relentless as in some of tronyn's maps and so oyu had plenty of downtime to admire the scenery and soak it all in.

Really classy stuff. 

The difference on hard is that if you get the 4 runes, you get the 'DKnight's tribute' at the exit. They don't appear in the easier skill levels and are missing if you get the Pent in Hard mode. (There is also one other way that you get the tribute without the runes but that was a result of never finishing the map and although I should take complete responsibility for that error, I have decided instead to blame my dead pet spider)

That's why I said nominally different. But of course if you only played on hard AND got the runes first time, you wouldn't see even a nominal difference, would you. Could be a reason to play it again on wimp mode jut to see what the plebs see (snigger, snigger).