|Posted by Mike Woodham [220.127.116.11] on 2013/03/22 09:36:50|
|As close to being finished as it will ever be, the end is not as originally planned but it is still playable.
Only tested in Fitzquake. Some music switches missing in the last map so you will either put up with it, or not play it :)
Not all short-cuts bring reward, and if you play on hard AND find the runes, you will get a nominally different ending.
UPDATE: quaddicted mirror: https://www.quaddicted.com/filebase/fmb_bdg2.zip
Holy Suffering Fuck
I'm getting killed by dogs.
By Which I Mean
This is hardcore attrition gameplay.
Just realised after all my bellyaching I didn't play the release...
I don't know if you are still reading this post but I just played this and wow! I'm sure glad you released it. It would sure be nice to see that other half
Glad that you're enjoying it - well I think you are :)
I still pop-in every now and then.
I wonder if you downloaded the latest version: FMB-BDG was the release from a few years ago, which is just the This Onion map. FMB-BDG2 is the 3 map pack released this year This Onion, This Garlic and That Shallot (it's was supposed to be a play on words, you see).
So unfortnuately, that's your lot; there is no more to come :(
Let me explain - I was playing terribly yesterday because I was a bit drunk. I was at a restaurant and we ordered starters etc. I had a Peruvian Pisco Sour: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisco_Sour
We'd been sat there for forty minutes after a small starter (and my second sour, which meant I'd had about a pint of the stuff on an empty stomach) when one of the chefs was stretchered out and we were informed that due to a fight in the kitchen they were having to close.
Anyway, back to the maps;
I got my ass handed to me replaying This Onion - I was staggering a lot and not doing the precise footwork needed in the lava areas with the Lavamen.
This Garlic I just finished and it was murder. Weaponstrip and HK start?! I also missed the NG and so suffered through the level until getting over halfway through. It seems the only armour is from secrets as well, and I wasn't having much luck finding them. Some of geometry is hard to fight in as well - I kept on bumping my head on low ceilings or getting stuck on wall details.
But I can tell with a bit more patience (and sobriety) this will be a much more forgiving map.
Just started That Shallot and finding it much more friendly, having a lot of fun with it so far. The balance feels superior to This Garlic - shotgun start (wow the Quake guy has butterfingers!) versus regular knights and not HKs is much better. The brushwork here is very nice as well - the caves look great.
Will be replaying the whole thing again once I finish to do it justice.
Thanks for the release!
I Was Gonna Say
I love this map, but it's a tough one for demos, in that it is quite difficult, with rather steep spikes, and a general war of attrition style gameplay elsewhere.
Re: Still Poppin In
Well Mike let me tell you. I did play the 3 map pack. I thought I read you were thinking of adding more to it. Anyway great textures-great theme-great everything. I can't believe the imagination some of you mappers have. I was discussing it with my son and he said quake 1 must be a guide line or gateway to future mappers. A college requirement. Whatever it is I hope you guys keep making great maps.
Hope my comments didn't sound too negative - this is still an instant classic.
The fact that you're playing it and going back for more is good enough for me.
The loss of weapons between maps was just me thinking that they could be played as stand alone maps. But I suppose I could have made the ammo more sparse and left the weapons in. It's just that I felt the maps were a bit on the large size and that people may not have wanted to play all three together, especially as I wanted Hard to be a bit of challenge.
It surprises me that so many players seem to start on Hard, whereas I used to play Quake on Normal skill and then move to Hard for
a second play if I had enjoyed the map first time around.
2nd run of the first map:
What you didn't get to see:
Me dying twice right off the bat -- hiding that first armor in a secret was plain mean -- me wandering around aimlessly looking for paths to secret items sitting in plain view, and me Daz-derping into the lava more than just a couple of times ;)
More to come!!!
Great fun, well done.
I love the way you are looking around all the time: is that a secret panel, can I jump on to that ledge, etc. I think the "secret door opens near some stairs" foxed you because you saw the secret switch before you saw the right staircase. You also had the right idea for the MH secret but the jump has to be 'pixel perfect' (I think you can rocket-jump up to that opening as well)
You also highlighted at least two flaws - fullbrites in a ceiling texture that I missed that you clearly thought was a secret of some kind; and a 'seam' in some brickwork where the texture was mis-aligned. Oh, and the end cut-scene didn't work correctly where a rock falls from the cave ceiling and the bridge collapses into the lava - you may have ended the demo before that showed up but I am not sure.
Thank you for taking the trouble; I'll watch out for demo number 2 :)
And one thing I forgot to mention - I noticed that one time you accidentally backed onto a music switch and turned the music off, but then went back and switched it on again. Oooooh, thank you, thank you, thank you.
This was a very challenging mini-episode. Close-quarters combat in the second map was a nice switch from the other, more open maps. Figuring out the guardian statue puzzle for the end was pretty challenging too; I found only two runes, had no idea where to look for the rest but luckily I found that pentagram. However, I rocketjumped to get there because some gates had come down so I'm not sure if this was the "official" way of doing it. I also had to cheat once, in the last map: That platform that goes up when you step on it, surrounded by lava, I assume I was supposed to jump to the ledges where the knights were but I jumped back to the stairwell so I got stuck. The way I see it, this was a design faux pas as you're not supposed to make it so that the player can get permanently stuck.
Anyway, here's a demo of the entire thing, in eight parts. I didn't die that often really, mostly had trouble with the running-vagina type monsters (their projectiles were faster than I remembered) and those gatekeeping gargoyles:
Just watched the first two; really nice. Thanks.
Once again I noticed that the end cut-scene didn't work. Actually, it's not a cut-scene as such, it's the end camera view that all maps can have but I have things going on in the map. Perhaps there is something about the demo recording mode that bypasses the final camera?
I am not sure about the platform problem you mention. I am not aware of anywhere you can actually get stuck, even though it may be difficult. For example, in the second map near the beginning, if you don't get across the bridge before it withdraws, you can jump on the beams and if you hug the walls the pendulums can't get you.
But I'll watch the rest of the demos and see if I can work out the issue.
Yup, a design faux pas! Mind you, I was surprised that such a skilled Quaker as yourself didn't use a grenade jump ;)
One missing rune is by the giant imp statue that overlooks the large cave (in plain sight), and the other is behind the "must be hiding something" door that you can get to from the roof that leads to the Pent (drop down behind the door). You could also clamber along the top of the beams that also provides access to the Quad. When you get all four there is a cut-scene that shows the Guardians exploding, meaning that you can get to the GK door without needing the Pent.
Really enjoyed watching the demos, so a big thanks for sticking at it.
1st run of the second map in 4 parts:
What you do get to see:
More derping into lava and onto window sills. Getting good and confused at the gold/silver key/door setup and doing some un-necessary backtracking. Shooting secrets that I eventually figure out.
I enjoy the music in these maps. It really adds to the ambience :)
Just one more to go...
Another great demo.
And another flaw. I had switches to drop the barriers to the lavamen area should you double back from certain areas but not by your particular route. Yes, your 'player stuck' message was correct (although you could have rocket jumped up to the window if you had backed into the cave area, and that would have got you back to where the silver key was).
Perhaps I was being a little too clever in trying to give the areas some degree of 'searchability'.
"Perhaps there is something about the demo recording mode that bypasses the final camera?"
Yeah probably because I did see the cutscene so no worries.
"Mind you, I was surprised that such a skilled Quaker as yourself didn't use a grenade jump"
Yeah somehow I completely forgot about even having the weapon at that point.
Sorry didn't do a demo, it'd be long anyway, over 2 hours.
Great maps though. In the first I too skipped the nailgun route, it wasn't till I noclipped back through the level to see what I missed. No biggy since you lose the weapons anyway.
I know everyone was going on about how hard it was, and I'm no expert player, but I didn't find it that hard. At the end of each level I usually had full rockets and nails. The end battle with those four green buggers I took out with the RL and MH, so I still had the Pent and Quad left (felt wasted on 4 ogres). So maybe it's quite a bit harder on hard compared to medium (I played on med).
I'm useless at secrets, I found maybe 2-3 per level. I did happen to stumble upon all the runes though, so I was satisfied about that. Well, one of them I just rocket jumped up to.
Good to see quoth enemies not overused, though I probably would have ramped up the gameplay with more green bastards, shamblers, scrags. There were enough ogres and knights to sink a ship, it was kind of expected everytime you turn a new corner, there'll be an ogre waiting. But that does give it a good old skool feel.
In fact the whole three felt very old skool.
90% of it I used the ssg, only time I ran out of shells was early in the first level, but I still had sng and gl.
I liked the third level the best, especially the flooding part, and overlooking level 1. Awesome stuff.
Was this made of scraps or completely your own creation Mike? Some parts like the towers, and textures, reminded me a bit of Tronyn's style.
Oh and i'm so glad you didn't leave these as base! I think they would have felt too bland as base maps, base needs quite a bit of detailing to look good.
My favourite part was the little cavern with a dark path leading upwards, I think map2, and a dozen knights are at the top. That little trail look fantastic. Being top of the castle in map1 was also great.
No scraps were used in the making of the three levels; they were actually one map originally, and all my own work (for a change). Obviously, some of the monsters were taken from existing mods, and I did get help on some qc issues from the guys here on more than one occasion.
Once I realised that one map was too big, I split them into two, and then into three.
I spent some time creating player 'vistas'. These were through the window, or across the cavern type scenes; areas that the player would get to look at from different angles or heights, and at different times during play.
I remember a discussion here a few years back where I bemoaned published screenshots that the player would never get to see in normal play. This set of maps were 'designed' to ensure that the player was always able to see the best vistas without having to resort to no-clipping e.g. being able to see the castle in the final map from quite early in the first map, or viewing the wooden bridge from above in the second map, and seeing the remains of the fist map from the third map, and so on.
Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for letting me know.
Finally got around to play this. Truly fantastic stuff! Great architecture throughout with awesome caves. I liked the monster use overall. I feel like lighting could have been a little better, especially in some pitch-black areas near lava which is kind of weird. I did not find the secrets to be very tough to find (some were fiendish though, the Secret Hunter one comes to mind) and I managed to find all four runes in the final map.
Sorry I didn't do a demo but I managed to get stuck in the final map, having to noclip. It happens in the room with the switch to the "face in the stairs". If you enter the next room with the Death Knights, the door closes behind you. If you're fast enough you can come back to the previous room and you're stuck.
The problem of being on the wrong side of the door never arose in testing as I am clearly too slow. I know that some players (most?) play with 'run' on all the time, so perhaps that makes it possible to get back through the door.
The Ogres were there to make you back out and once they were out of the way I expected people just to continue in and set of the Death Knights.
That apart, it seems you enjoyed it so I am happy, thanks.
Gone But Not Forgotten...
Two demos with a slight gap in-between -- I accidentally overwrote the second one but you are only missing me derping into the lava yet again ;)
Overall, I enjoyed these maps. They felt a bit like Something Wicked but with more emphasis on horizontal vs. vertical exploration. The architecture and texturing were good throughout with just a few slightly bland areas. The new monsters and progs were welcome but could have been used a little more consistently through all three maps. On normal, the finale was pants but I look forward to replaying the whole thing on hard and getting a much happier ending :) Cheers, Mike!
P.S. Don't be a stranger...
Really enjoyed watching the demos; well done, and thanks for posting them.
(As you can see, I do pop in every now and then. Best regards to everyone)
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