|Posted by DeeDoubleU on 2016/02/19 13:57:20|
|I like cheesy horror movies of 80th. You know the kind - every ancient burial ground has a house right in the middle, every laboratory works on creating zombie virus, every cemetery is cursed and so on.
As an ode to those movies I wanted to make a quake episode based on typical stories.
This is third map of Root of all evil.
Why not start from first? Well... I have no good reason 8) "Base" setting seemed easier to do (man, how I was mistaken). But wait, there's more!
I had to break map in two, because cave pieces immediately ate up vertex budget and lightmap related errors appeared.
Good thing is most of brushwork is done for second part so hopefully it won't take too long to finish it.
Map is easily broken - strategic ramps everywhere for speedrun purposes, but no tricks required to finish the level.
No backspawning this time 8) experimented with new fight scenarios.
As usual, lots of secrets. 18 to be precise. And that is after getting rid of most boring ones.
Hope you will like it and please share demos.
TLDR: Tried a lot of new stuff.
Tested with quakespasm 0.90.1 win64 without mods
with this launch parameters:
quakespasm-sdl2.exe -zone 2048 -heapsize 192000 -bpp 32
Thought I better mention above just in case, after map crashed client when I tried to play it under AD.
First Play, Skill 2.
I had a lot of problems with progression, finding the silver key and the moving crate progression by accident. The 'similar terminal nearby' I stumbled upon too. At a point was completely lost. I continued anyway even after the 'a door has opened nearby' message. As it was, I didn't regret it.
I showed only one slope(ramp)jump shortcut.
What about the GL/red laser area? I thought the jump I made there would be another shortcut...
I was quite surprised at the trigger on picking up the gold key, even though I saw the GK door before and wondered why it wasn't marked more clearly.
Some textures and brushwork reminded me of Hell in Can and Invein. I guess this was intentional given the theme, horror in an infested base?
A number of ambushes gave me a heart attack just like a single fiend did in Hell in a Can when I replayed it recently.
The fact this map is planned to be part of an episode feels like my wish (expressed in the thread of your last map) coming true.
I Usually Hate Military Base Map In Q1...
but this one is great.
Some influence from Q3.
Thank you. Already saw couple of fuck ups in my design.
I think chip upgrading mechanic would be more clear if:
- fiend wouldn't get trapped in the corner and stack both trains together(after that takes ages to wait for them). Trains need to do more damage.
- firmware upgrading routine wouldn't be accidentally accessible during battle, not sure how to solve this without some ugly bars blocking the way 8/
- new train route would get highlighted, kind of what valve does in their games
GL is accessible in another easier way. Nice shortcut though. Didn't thought about it since I can't do this kind of jumps consistently.
Ah, gold door 8) It supposed to be even more obscure, hence the GK being a secret. In my head it worked the other way around - GK is a secret by itself and after finding it player supposed to scratch his head trying to figure out where the door is.
As for texturing in similar way with mentioned maps - I nod and quietly downloading those maps to secretly play and hide my noobishness 8)
Overall I have mixed feelings now.
I must confess - I tried to make a map confusing on purpose. You see, I am one of those folks who like to whine about modern shooters is linear to the point of straight corridor with cutscenes and QTEs slapped on top, but looking at my previous maps I realized it wasn't much better. Well, maybe slightly curved corridor, but still too linear to my own tastes.
That is probably the main reason why third of the final map is in secret areas 8)
I see map is confusing alright, but not exactly as I planned. More as a result of few errors I mentioned.
At the same time I feel some guilty pleasure - spent quite some time making it, naturally I want you to stay at this map
FOREVER! at least for 20 minutes.
Those screenshots remind me of the kinds of environments found in Nehahra or Zerstorer.
Thank You For Elaborating On The Level Design.
Part of the reason the map was confusing for me was that there were no centerprints to say what some of the buttons did.
Another part is when there was a centerprint for the button that opens the gold key door, I assumed it was necessary to find that door to progress. When I found the gold key, I couldn't connect it to the 'door has opened somewhere' message immediately. The secret trigger explained why the gold key was not clearly visibly marked though.
By the way, the area opened by the GK is the icing on the cake.
I have found the way to the GL too.
I think you have succeeded in creating a confusing map, so much so that I got confused whether it was an intentional setup or not.
If you haven't played Hell in a Can(casspq1) and Invein, you are in for a real treat in my opinion. But each to his own, I guess. Data download (hulk256) and Cartographer's Nightmare (kpcn2014) are very well worth playing too and they did come to my mind playing your map.
I didn't finish as I got really lost :(
The main issues I think are thus
1) Lots of important buttons that give you no feedback when pushed!
2) Too much backtracking and area re-use means I never felt like I was progressing.
3) Lots of small/medium rooms that look similar and had no distinguishing land marks. I got lost very easily!
On the plus side though. The map felt very DOOM like for me. Especially the dark area full of dogs. When I wasn't confused or lost the map was pretty cool!
Updated the map. Same DL link as before.
- trains give 50 dmg
- GK door hidden
- more centerprints added
- also added texture hints to chip updating routine
Few buttons left mute since you can see or hear affected stuff and I don't really know how to describe vore riding lift down to kick your butt 8/
Please give it another go.
Small indistinguishable rooms would still look the same though.
Haunted And Busy!
I went ahead and uploaded via YouTube since I have a channel there anyway.
Skill 2, 4 secrets xD
Note there is no audio because I have no idea. Still I think the visuals of how I progress is still relevant.
+Large space, good atmosphere...I constantly felt "alone"
+Great use of original tech style and love the blue lighting for the machinery!
+I can appreciate a map chock full of secrets...even if I barely found any!
Not so Pros:
- Lack of weapons, at least not secret ones. I only had the SG, SSG, and Nailgun the entire map. granted, I did not find Shamblers, so that helps! ;)
- Slightly confusing on where to go. This is especially references the terminal/chip/firmware process. As you will see in the video, I got rather lost at that point mostly due to the fact I ignored another path further back into the level. Still, I think maybe a little extra direction for the player could help here.
-There is very or no feedback when buttons are pressed. I resulted in pushing a button and hoping to notice something different elsewhere.
A great level drenched with atmosphere using the feeling of large empty spaces and cold industrial textures to set the mood just right. One could not review this map without mentioning the slowly decomposing base about 1/2 into the level.
Good job DeeDoubleU and looking forward to the Root of All Evil!
*I did attempt to search for secrets as I went but man I just am blind or there isn't too much signal towards them. Oh well, the four that I did find were useful!*
One More Thing
Well, two actually
- can you take screens of most confusing/similar/indistinguishable spots so I could try to break visual monotony?
- I thought about adding markers to SK and SK door, but don't know how to do this. I mean, what an arrow with SK image is pointing to?. Any suggestions?
Going To Be Playing Through This...
Starts in about an hour or so.
Okay, last update I think.
Now I will just bitch about "my vision" as an artist should.
- got rid of underwater bar - everyone was finding corresponding button before bar
- added pointers to powercore buttons, SK and SK doors
- water level in gateways lowered to prevent z-fighting with health
- clipped battle area near Terminal 1,
you kinda walk on air now, but this way you can move freely while fighting
- minor brush tweaks
Haven't Got Around To Playing This Yet
But if I keep waiting, this level is going to be really awesome.
You know, you could request beta testers...I'm always up for testing levels if you want to email me for part 2 testing.
Go Play It Already 8)
Oh, neat. How can I reach you?
And parubaru, please leave your contacts or email me (it is in readme) if you are up for it.
Click On Name, Refer To Email If Present, Change DOT To .
I love the deserted feeling, the emptiness and the really long pauses between combat. It was a refreshing change of pace from the usual Quake combat with every corridor / room is full of enemies. The attention to detail in this map is outstanding, the broken walls, the blood oozing from behind panels, the animated tech textures and those tech style port holes between rooms, perfect!
I played the map with AD(patch2) on the DP engine because QS fails with your map hacks on the chip stuff. I think the buttons are too far away from what they affect, I did not realize at first the buttons were opening doors several rooms away. I got the SK, did the chip puzzle but got no idea where to go next. I spent ages going round and round in circles and eventually gave up! I don't think the map needs signposts, I think its flow needs to funnel the player better towards each objective.
Your secrets are very cool, you certainly love the "spot the texture difference" style more than anything else. My favourite secret was the giant moving crate because it changes the environment and involves some jumping around!
This is a map that has been lovingly detailed over a very long time and has a fantastic feeling of isolation and suspense (AD monster footsteps really helped). I would recommend you get more people involved in private testing before release, so that the map flow is more logical.
Loved the scampie secret....the super, mega, and serious secrets too. I liked how every secret was actually marked, except the envirosuit one ;). FYI, there is one lonely death knight who was left in his teleport box at the end JSYK. Loved the pacing. What sock said.
What Sock Said
Anyone who has not play this yet wanna do a first run in Coop together? German quakespasm server.
it doesn't have appropriate spawn for second player.
I played through the map but I broke it before i could find the silver key door by grenade jumping over all the security blocks! The atmosphere was really cool, love the demonic energies slowly seeping into the base, gave it almost a Half-Life meets Quake 3 vibe.
Did I notice parts of the walls change as the evil spread?
You Did ;)
It crashes with latest quakespasm when I touch some switch
triggers_states.qc : trigger_bmodel_sounds
triggers.qc : trigger_once
subs.qc : SUB_UseTargets
triggers_states.qc : trigger_bmodel_fire
triggers_states.qc : trigger_bmodel_touch
PF_Precache_*: Precache can only be done in spawn functions
Host_Error: Program error
I tested it with 0.90.1 and 0.91.0
Are you using x64 build?
Are you trying to run it with any mod (AD)?
I'm using 0.91 x32 sdl2 build
Running under AD mod.
If you want to use AD, you can try darkplaces (sock mentioned it works), map will crash with AD + quakespasm combination.
Should run fine with QS without any mods too.
Haven't played it, but I think it crashes, because the map uses sounds in combination with the trigger hack. Each sound needs to be precached, which can only be done by regular entities that have the specific sound set. Quite possibly such triggers may not even have a sound effect at all.
You are right. I'm using 'noise' keys in fake buttons. Had some problems with it myself while building.
I'm sure I set other real buttons to use this sounds and that solved it for me.
Yep, just checked it and there is definitely regular entities using that same sounds in the map.
Precache happens on map load and not on actually playing that sound, right?
Yes, on map load.
If properly precached, "noise" may be fine then. Setting "sounds" won't work.
I skipped the part where AAS mentioned playing with AD. It might just be the case that AD treats those sounds/precaches differently.
I quite liked the start of the map, wandering around with no enemies in sight. Don't know if it's the feel you were going for, but perhaps omitting the rotfish and delaying any other enemy encounters even longer would have made the buildup to the inevitable ambush even more suspenseful.
I'm generally not a fan of huge maps with hundreds of enemies and tens of secrets. One reason is simply personal preference, I tend to prefer smaller maps that take less time to complete. But an even bigger reason is the tendency to get lost, which did happen to me on several occasions in this map. Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention at certain points, but some areas seemed to be maybe a bit too interconnected, in that the correct way to proceed was too obtuse. Another factor that detracts from my enjoyment of huge maps is that looking for secrets becomes somewhat of a chore, as there's so much more ground to cover. I missed quite a lot of secrets, and subsequently kills, in the map, even though I feel like I searched quite carefully.
Anyway, it's not that I didn't enjoy the map at all, I did. Just setting personal preferences aside, I think if the layout had been more streamlined and less confusing, I'd enjoyed it even more.
skill 3, 192/211 kills, 11/18 secrets demo
You are a victim of your own skill, mate.
Most players have fewer places to search for secrets because they can't reach those spots. Several jumps was quite surprising and overall demo is highly educational on movement. Thank you.
I can only guess that near the end you got tired of the map, since before that search-method had astonishing thoroughness and it shows. You found a lot of secrets. Also 4 or 5 of them was nested so it's more like 11/14.
The Secret Within A Secret Within A Secret
Was pretty cool and very rewarding. The end secret was wierd.
Oh...PS, everyone checks under plats nowadays. Some of you clever mappers are being quite tauntingly mean by putting messages under lifts saying "Nothing under here".
DeeDoubleU just kills you when he is sick of you checking under plats. Brilliant!
>The End Secret Was Wierd.
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