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Mark V - Release 1.00
http://quakeone.com/markv/

* Nehahra support -- better and deeper link
* Mirror support, "mirror_" textures. video
* Quaddicted install via console (i.e. "install travail")
* Full external texture support DP naming convention
* Enhanced dev tools texturepointer video inspector video
* IPv6 support, enhanced server capabilities
* Enhance co-operative play (excels at this!)
* Software renderer version (WinQuake)
* "Find" information command (ex. type "find sky")

Thanks to the beta testers! NightFright, fifth, spy, gunter, pulsar, johnny law, dwere, qmaster, mfx, icaro, kinn, adib, onetruepurple, railmccoy

And thanks to the other developers who actively provided advice or assistance: Spike (!), mh, ericw, metlslime and the sw guys: mankrip and qbism.

/Mac version is not current yet ...; Linux will happen sometime in 2017
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Addendum 
Another reason for the subtle fog in custom Quake maps is to disguise the fact it's not spherical. Thick flat fog looks bad when turning the camera. 
Transparency In WinQuake 
I've done some more testing in Mark V WinQuake and turns out the water/teleporter transparency (r_wateralpha) actually works, via dithering. I suppose the same effect could be applied to the fake fog layer in ad_necrokeep. It just seems like the engine has no support for alpha channel in textures, e.g. various trees and vines in AD and Jam 8 are broken, with solid white where they should be transparent. 
 
Put these guys in the maps folder and you'll have transparent water on the stock id1 maps

External .vis files for original Quake maps

They should work in DarkPlaces as well.

The original Quake maps don't treat water as transparent.

Alpha masked/alpha transparency doesn't work in the WinQuake version for brush models at this time (tried it maybe 4 different times, something I'm not understanding about the WinQuake depth buffer or draw process prevents me from getting the job done in this case.).

It actually works for .mdl models, but few maps use that although it might be visible in Arcane Dimensions in some cases. 
Baker 
Alpha masked/alpha transparency doesn't work in the WinQuake version for brush models at this time (tried it maybe 4 different times, something I'm not understanding about the WinQuake depth buffer or draw process prevents me from getting the job done in this case.).

The BSP renderer sorts depth by edge at the spans level, rather than at the pixel level. To avoid this, I've tried partially reinitializing the BSP renderer upon rendering each alphamasked BSP surface, but this resulted in massive slowdowns. Now I only reinitialize it once for each BSP entity containing alphamasked surfaces. Qbism did something similar in Super8, IIRC.

Quake's spans-related code needs a lot of work. It's non-intuitive and has bugs such as this.

I don't fully understand it yet either, but I'm sure the reinitialization overhead can be eliminated almost completely. I should only manage to do so after fully rewriting it, though. 
@mk 
Thanks for the link. Looks like a good read.

I had determined that some sort of reset was required, but either I did it in the wrong place or performed it incorrectly. Or the third possibility of something I am not considering and wasn't on my radar.

Some day in the future I'll make another attempt. Last time I almost got "serious" (I was piece by piece reimplementing qbism super8 in WinQuake until I isolated what I didn't understand), but then something more shiny to me pulled me away (probably something Spike did in Spiked Quakespasm like single port server).

Network code to me > everything else ;-) 
 
One more thing, does WinQuake Mark V support any kind of HUD scaling? Integers like 2x, 3x etc would look quite good even in software rendering I'd wager. The usual scr_*scale commands don't seem to work. 
 
In the video menu, stretch is as close as it comes, emulating 320x240 or 640x480 as best it can depending on your current display mode.

It isn't exactly the same thing as scaling the HUD, and for most people it is probably "good enough" -- although as a purist I don't feel it is good enough.

But since it would be quite time consuming and effort to implementing true scaling (aka FitzQuake) in the software rendering with the appropriate alpha masking support, such a thought sits somewhere closer towards to the back of list rather than the front.

Keep in mind a trule scaling solution needs to handle all 2D graphics like the menu, scoreboard, etc. otherwise it would be quite silly. 
 
Hmm, seems like the original renderer is pretty limited.

For the record, I've tried Qbism, and it does have HUD scaling and alpha channel support for textures, but I get heavy FPS drops in Arcane Dimensions, when there are any alpha channel textures in my line of sight.

Could we do this another way around and emulate the original paletted 8 bit look in OpenGL? In particular the lighting color map. 
Crash To Desktop 
....on trigger_changelevel - is this a known issue or could it be my map?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-xkqcrQhLm7Z3RVeVZZUFdwVlE/view?usp=sharing

It's happened multiple times and on demo playback as well. 
@iniyap 
I know exactly how do it. It isn't a question of that at all. The question is, of the things I can do, would I find that interesting enough to want to do before the 25 things that do interest me. If you understand.

Ask Spike or mh or ericw or metlslime or qbism or mankrip, part of an engine coding for a leisure activity is wanting to do the task.

@dumptruck_ds .. don't know. If it progresses to become a released map, I'll make a mental note of it after it is confirmed it doesn't crash any other engine. 
@iriyap 
paletted look with gl = fte with r_softwarebanding 1 (or just use the softwarey preset). 
@Baker 
re: the map. tested on Quakespasm-admod last night and it was fine. I will do some further tests with other clients this evening and report back but for now at least that engine behaves as intended.

My trigger change level is made up of some weird shapes as you can sort of see in the screenshot. Not sure if that could be a cause or not. 
Baker 
it seems the tool_inspector is broken on your latest release v36

also i've got a new video card gtx1070, and noticed a very weird video gliches with the fog enabled

there's no such gliches if i'm using quakespasm engine tho 
There Ain't No Gliches Either If I'm Using Dx_9 Engine 
*glitches 
 
@spy 
Yeah, Pritchard reported the tool inspector issue a while back and then a couple of others later on.

I saw the glitching in your video. Could you give me "viewpos" coordinates and map name (or as an alternative the demo which gets me the same information).

I'm guessing since it only happens in certain frame, it occurs when a lavaball pops into view.

Quakespasm and Mark V and Mark V D3D all draw very differently, so the different behavior isn't unsurprising.

I'll make a note to try to recreate the next time I have my hands on a NVidia card machine. Since NVidia updates the drivers all the time, it is a possibility that this is a driver issue that will go away in a future driver update, but I'm not going to make that assumption.

Thanks for the high detail issue report. 
Yeah, After I'm Getting The New Card 
i've updated nvidia driver to the latest version

this glitch is only happens when the fog is enabled, disabling the fog removes the problem
would you mind if i'll send the map
to your mail? 
 
Spy, you know I think you are awesome.

I am email free! And I love it!

If it needs to be done privately, I guess you could send a private message at QuakeOne.com. 
Baker 
i cannot reach you at QuakeOne.com

btw, fitz08, has the very same issue 
 
I deleted some private messages over there, you can try again (but really since they upgraded the forum there, I don't know if that was problem or not) or upload to Quaketastic.

My gut instinct is that I think this is a driver issue that will magically disappear at some point once nvidia does an driver update or 2 on your machine.

They probably introduced some sort of stencil bug they introduced since ...

1) It doesn't happen in Quakespasm which doesn't use stencil by default.

2) It doesn't happen in the Direct3D version.

3) Didn't happen on your previous machine, no one else has reported a glitch like that. 
 
Hello, it's me again. :)
I've tried out a few older versions of Mark V, and the problem is still the same.

Now I'm starting to think that it's definitely up to my hardware. Certainly my GPU, because the drivers are so poor. Yes, the latest ones are from years ago.

In the near future, I might install modded drivers to see if it helps. Intel GMA 965 is a special snowflake among the 9xx series, haha. 
@Admer 
You might try the sdl_mark_v_gl.exe in this beta ...

http://quakeone.com/markv/builds/1025_mark_v_beta.zip

Will it work? Who knows!

Had several beta testers with really, really bad/old computers, some which can't run Open GL but the Direct3D works and getting terrific fps.

Worth a shot anyway. 
 
Yes, the Intel 965 is pretty damn special - it was Intel's first hardware T&L part, the drivers are absolute cack and the hardware itself is actually slower than the prior (software T&L) generation.

As far as I'm concerned: weirdness, crashing, general bad stuff - that's expected behaviour under OpenGL with this part. 
 
I've tried out the SDL .exe, and just as I thought...

There's no hope. My GPU is the lottery in terms of incompatibility. :P
I'm not giving up yet, though.

I'll just wait until I build my new PC by the end of this year. Modern hardware will definitely handle it better. :) 
1036 Is Giving Me Problems 
Wonder if anyone else is having issues running it. I'm testing a map so haven't had time to really document things but it seems to stutter quite a bit after running for a few minutes. Can't even finish a play-thru.

Before I dive into reporting wondering if anyone else is experiencing the same behavior?

SO far it's just the main mark_v.exe

dx8, dx9 and winquake are behaving. 
Found A Really Weird Bug 
The following bug happens in all current versions of Mark V:
- Quick save and quick load at least once.
- Die and press space to restart the level.
- You respawn with death camera (slanted view).

Also, all versions of Mark V are stuttering for about 3-5 seconds every time I launch the game, sometimes also with cracking sound, usually when loading the first map. It's like it's caching something really bad. My machine is pretty modern, so it shouldn't be related to specs. The game is very smooth after it's done that initial bout of stuttering.

Also please consider adding support for OGG tracks. it's more common than MP3 nowadays and seems to be standard for Quake. Also PNG instead of TGA as well, most HUD/GFX graphics seem to be using PNG.

P.S. And maybe don't try to re-route when an opengl32.dll is put inside the Quake folder. I'm just trying to use a wrapper for some extra graphical effects. This one in particular. It works great with Quakespasm.
https://github.com/crystice-softworks/QeffectsGL 
 
The death cam respawn was reported (by me :D) a while back.

I don't think that ogg is more common than mp3 now... in fact i'd say it's even less common than it used to be, now that the mp3 patents are starting to expire.

I think the reason to avoid loading opengl32.dll is this
 
Well, I've got about a dozen Quake soundtracks (id1, hipnotic, rogue, shrak, malice, impel, xmen, n64 etc), all of them in 256 kbps VBR OGG, de-emphasized where necessary. I'm pretty happy with this collection as it stands and don't feel like repeating the process for MP3. I've read about Baker's reasoning on how MP3 is faster to access, but I'd still like an option for OGG support. And who knows, we might all switch to FLAC at some point.

Yeah, I get the reasoning behind avoiding opengl32.dll, in the old vanilla installations of Quake (and other games from that era) it's a 3dfx wrapper, which causes problems on modern systems. But I feel like the current solution of removing the option of using any wrapper at all is a bit too heavy handed. 
 
In theory MarkV already has .ogg support provided you have a DirectShow-compatible codec installed. As a rule of thumb, if you can play it in Windows Media Player, you can play it in MarkV. I know that for a fact because I'm the original author of that code.

In practice MarkV is hard-coded to only search for files with a .mp3 extension. Supporting .ogg as well should be just a matter of adding support for the other extension, but I didn't originate that part of the code (or at least I don't recall doing so) so I can't say what kind of work would be involved in this change. 
Ogg Vorbis Is History, Use Opus Like QS 
 
 
Ah, ogg files.

Supported on Windows, the Mac, the iPhone. Widely used in the commercial games industry and in the music industry. Supported by the Unreal engine and the Source engine.

Oh wait. That's mp3. None of the above support ogg.

My Android phone can play ogg. If you open an ogg file in Google Music, it will convert it to mp3 and then play it ;-) That's Google's idea of ogg support.

Ogg fits in nicely in the category containing 8-Track, BetaMax, Laserdisc, Zip drives, the Zune, PlaysForSure, HD DVD, Windows Mobile, Windows Phone.

Short version: Oggs? Fuck, no! Plus you don't even know why you are using ogg, Quakespasm supports mp3 -- so what was it that made you think "ogg" to begin with? Answer: You don't know, because no one using ogg ever knows why they are using ogg, especially because in the real world, no one is ever doing oggs because nothing supports them.

/Against my better judgment, I click submit! 
 
@mh
In practice MarkV is hard-coded to only search for files with a .mp3 extension. Supporting .ogg as well should be just a matter of adding support for the other extension

Thank a lot for this tip, turns out Mark V DOES play OGG if you just open the .exe in a hex editor and search and replace all instances of .mp3 ASCII text with .ogg. Really makes you wonder, why not just add literally 3 extra characters to the source code to enable OGG support? It really seems like Baker's got some personal agenda against it, since literally every other modern Quake engine supports OGG, because why not. Oh well, I suppose there's no need to discuss this further. 
The Smell Of Napalm On The Forum 
There's something wonderful about reading Baker raging against ogg, and then immediately afterwards reading about how despite Baker's strong desire to prevent it by explicitly coding it out, someone has hacked it to work with a find+replace.

It makes you wonder what ogg did to Baker - murdered/kidnapped family I guess - in the past to make him think "I have this perfectly good DirectShow support in my engine. I should ruin it and only use it for mp3 format music to ensure that my users have to work harder than with other engines!" 
Doesn't Sound Complicated At All? 
Implement a generic audio library and comment out ogg from the list of supported formats. 
 
why not just add literally 3 extra characters to the source code to enable OGG support

I obviously can't speak for Baker but this wouldn't be just 3 extra characters. It's only 3 characters if you directly replace the existing .mp3 support with .ogg support, but of course you then lose .mp3 support.

Adding multiple file format support would involve enumerating files of multiple extensions, sorting them into lists, making decisions such as which format has priority over others (not so clear-cut - how do you decide between a high bitrate inferior format vs a low bitrate superior format?), and how to handle the inevitable crazy-assed situation where someone has multiple formats in the same folder (some of which may even be multiple versions of the same file in different formats).

I absolutely do think that people should make the effort to do all this, of course. But it would need some guidance as to what the end-user expected behaviour is. Multiple end users pulling an engine in different directions is something I can personally vouch for as never ending well, and it would be nice to see players striking up a discussion among themselves about how they'd like to see these kind of decisions work out. 
 
Funny thing is, OGG is actually already listed in Mark V's file extension look up table:
https://i.imgur.com/txwPXjA.png

But there must be some code that explicitly ignores or forbids it. Seriously though, just why. It's a relatively popular file format for video game audio.

To enable OGG support find the above bit in a hex editor and replace mp3 with ogg. Simply renaming your OGG tracks to MP3 should work as well, I guess. 
OGGre 
I'm confused... Isn't engine inter-compatibility something to strive for? Considering that all other engines support the format AND the fact that most soundtracks available online are in .ogg, it strikes me as odd that Baker would want to force the user to convert the files in order to use them with his engine. Plug'n'play, man, plug'n'play... 
 
Probably doesn't want bloat. 
 
D:

Ok Baker, I NEED ogg support!

I tried the hacks mentioned above (either renaming my ogg to mp3, or hex-editing mark_v), then, after installing the ogg directshow filter ( http://www.vorbis.com/setup_windows/ ), Mark_V does play ogg.... and it loads in a FRACTION OF THE TIME as an mp3 file of the same file size!

Do you remember a while back, me going through a LOT of testing because I have an issue where loading an mp3 file causes Mark V to freeze up while the file loads? (mentioned in #651 above)

After some encoding gymnastics I managed to get that loading time (during which everything freezes up) down to only like 4.2 seconds for track04.mp3.... Well, I converted it to an ogg of the same bit rate and file size, and it loads in only 1.23 seconds!

So... yeah. That would be the reason to allow ogg files to be found by Mark V (since it is already capable of playing them).

You really don't have to do all the complicated stuff mh mentioned. Just state, "Mark V supports the following formats, in the following order of preference: mp3, ogg."

And let the users sort their own files and formats and bitrates. 
 
Indeed, there's no need to compare bitrates or anything, just let it read formats A|B|C in the priority of A, B, C. And the game folder should take priority over id1, e.g. say you have OGGs in id1 but e.g. Travail comes with an MP3 soundtrack, disregard the OGGs in id1 then, unless there's not enough tracks in the game folder, in which case read the missing ones from id1. I think that's how Quakespasm handles it anyway, correct me if I'm wrong. 
Baker 
is there a way to set the fog value via an cfg file or fog depends on qc? 
@ Spy 
Just use an external_entity file(yourmapname.ent) Put the fog command in there. 
I Don't Quite Sure What You Talking About 
why would i put the fog command in the external ent file? and where exactly should i put it?

i'm using the fog value via the worldspawn. AD mod supports this and shows fog correctly, but it seems kinn's old mod (bastion/marcher) doesn't support fog from the worldspawn, as there's no fog after loading map.

i'm just wondering :) 
 
The worldspawn "fog" key is handled by the engine, it should work in id1 with MarkV (and most engines). Maybe bastion/marcher is resetting it via QC. 
@ Spy 
My answer was for the simple question of setting fog values via an external(.cfg) file, now I see your problem! 
Eric 
i have a map with a worldspawn settings something like
fog_density x
fog_colour x y z

and after loading this map in AD the fog appears correctly, then i put the very same map in the id1/maps folder and run it from the vanilla game
there's no fog at all
until i manually set the fog numbers in the console, what gives? 
@spy 
those are AD-specific fog keys.
Try: "fog" "density r g b" 
Have You Just Tried... 
"fog" "Density R G B"

All on one line for stock id? 
 
Try: "fog" "density r g b"

i put this line fog 0.015 0.35 0 0
into an *cfg file without the quotes, but no avail. 
 
Sorry, put it in worldspawn, not a cfg file :) i.e. the worldpawn key is "fog" and the value is "0.015 0.35 0 0" 
Miracle 
yay, it's working this way. silly me. Thank you Eric and damage_inc 
Permission 
Hey, I require help
Whenever I try to launch any of those 2 executables using:
./mark_v_linux or ./mark_v_winquake_linux
I get following error:
bash: ./mark_v_winquake_linux: Permission denied
Double-clicking doesn't work either

On manjaro, hope anyone can help 
Nevermind! 
chmod +x mark_v_winquake_linux
Has done the trick for me, it works now! 
Marcher / Bastion Imps Sprite Issue 
I was playing back some demos of Spy's work-in-progress map in 1.36 and the final frames of the imp fireball (the impact only) show up as non-transparent. If this is not a known issue, or repeatable I can try a screencap to make this a bit more clear. Works fine in other engines. Notably Quakespasm-admod 
Kinn Sprites 
I've ran into this.

Which sprites are you using?

Kinn original: uses black for transparency requires enfine with support for .png override textures (e.g. Darkplaces) and additive mode.
AD: Not sure.
Keep: I converted all mine to use pink transparency for full support on all engines. 
@Qmaster 
It's actually an older map of Spy's that he's working on getting ready to release pretty soon. Not sure what assets he was using.

@Spy are you using the same assets from the original Bastion/Marcher maps? 
@dumptruck_ds Kinn Sprites 
Mark_V enables external textures by default, so set external_extures to 0 and reload the map

or just delete all of *.tga files from the sprites folder, they are absolete now 
FOV 
Mark V's adaptive FOV calculation method seems to be quite different from QuakeSpasm and original FitzQuake. I need to increase FOV by about 6 to get the same field of view as in QS (using a 16:9 display). Of note, QS just does vert- when you set scr_sbaralpha 1, while Mark V does hor+. Not sure which method is preferable, however, it's possible that Baker based his adaptive FOV calculation on specific scr_sbaralpha and viewsize values. In particular, setting scr_sbaralpha 1 and viewsize 100 gives about the same FOV as in QS with full screen view point (that is scr_sbaralpha 0). But nowadays most people are probably playing with the transparent HUD, so this just results in smaller FOV. 
Good News! 
I have finally come across a solution to my problem. It turns out that I actually didn't have pak1 and pak0.pak. I thought I did, but I didn't check my ID1 folder. Long story short, I found something which contained both pak files and copied them over.

I love it. It runs like a charm:

https://i.imgur.com/WMxEBLv.png

I'm so sorry for wasting your time over such a dumb mistake of mine. 
 
>uses markv
>looks like glquake 
 
Missing PAK files was the problem?

How does that happen? If I remove my PAK files and try to run Mark V, I immediately get a popup error message saying it can't find the pak files.....

Maybe corrupt pak files? 
 
@killpixel
My laptop is 10 years old, I'd rather not...
Also, it's my first time using this sourceport, so I haven't tweaked all of the settings yet. Though, I'd love that to change. :)

@Gunter
Funny thing is, there were no .pak files at all in my ID1 folder.
The .pak files' contents were actually extracted to my ID1 folder, but the .paks themselves weren't there. Interesting. 
 
Interesting! You may have found "an issue."

I tested with unpacked pak files, and Mark V does indeed just crash without any meaningful error message.

These alternate engines I tested work just fine with unpacked pak files:

fitzquake 0.85
DirectQ
fteqw

Unpacked pak files should be an acceptable setup... so... Mark V should be able to handle that.




Anyway, if you're interested in tweaking Mark V with all kinds of setting which make it look better (in my view), I have a page with downloads and settings to alter: http://www.fvfonline.com/fitzquake.php

Then come play FvF :D

www.fvfonline.com
connect fvf.servequake.com 
 
Any interest in bumping Mark V's limits to make it Sepulcher-capable? cf. comments 1661/1662 above.

Also, can anyone say "sepulcher-capable" five times fast? 
 
@Johnny - Some day ... whenever I do the next version of Mark V, which doesn't feel soon. 
So It's Dead Huh? 
And just when I finished compiling a nice list of bug reports and suggestions. Disappointing. 
@iriyap 
Gotta love the internet.

So Baker writes "not yet but I will" and you interpret that as meaning "it's dead", eh? 
 
What's this I hear about Quake finally being dead? Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. I guess we can all move on to Unreal Tournament now. 
You Mean UT2k18 Aka..... 
....Quake Chumpions lololzor 
@iriyap, @adamer 
I think you've posted some well thought-out comments, including some refreshingly detail oriented ones. This thread is intended as permanent record of feedback so none of the information is lost.

NightFright could tell you stories, there is an obsolete older Mark V thread here with 2500 posts and his observations about obscure mods + crashes, a few which have led to improvements in Mark V and also Quakespasm -- over time ... it was not quick at all! Ironically, maybe 2 which ericw pointed out solutions, ericw didn't actually do them in Quakespasm until way, way, way later.

In free projects the author is always vastly outnumbered and with limited time and a real life.

@adamer - I'm glad you determined what was up with that (your pakless setup). Sure, in theory it "should" work (except it doesn't in Mark V) and it sounds like it works with other engines, but in practice an actual Quake install whether from Steam or the CD or shareware has pak files -- so yeah ... I'm glad that mystery is solvd.

@QMaster - re:Marcher --- I like the attention to detail/testing/thought it sounds like you are doing with your Uber mod. 
Unfinished Business 
I hope that one day I can do another test run as intense as the one I did before that big Mark V update back then. ^^ IIRC there is still at least one issue kinda pending with the final map of Malice when fov changes after reloading the game. It must have to do something with the boss attack and how the port handles the short-term fov changes. It was supposed to be fixed, but a few months ago I managed to get the problem again/still. Need to see what became of it. 
 
is the mod adjusting the fov or is it standard quake
progs.dat? 
 
oh reread the post i guess its an evil thing malice does
mods shouldnt ever change the users fov. could bean easy fix 
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