The Smell Of Napalm On The Forum
There's something wonderful about reading Baker raging against ogg, and then immediately afterwards reading about how despite Baker's strong desire to prevent it by explicitly coding it out, someone has hacked it to work with a find+replace.
It makes you wonder what ogg did to Baker - murdered/kidnapped family I guess - in the past to make him think "I have this perfectly good DirectShow support in my engine. I should ruin it and only use it for mp3 format music to ensure that my users have to work harder than with other engines!"
Doesn't Sound Complicated At All?
Implement a generic audio library and comment out ogg from the list of supported formats.
why not just add literally 3 extra characters to the source code to enable OGG support
I obviously can't speak for Baker but this wouldn't be just 3 extra characters. It's only 3 characters if you directly replace the existing .mp3 support with .ogg support, but of course you then lose .mp3 support.
Adding multiple file format support would involve enumerating files of multiple extensions, sorting them into lists, making decisions such as which format has priority over others (not so clear-cut - how do you decide between a high bitrate inferior format vs a low bitrate superior format?), and how to handle the inevitable crazy-assed situation where someone has multiple formats in the same folder (some of which may even be multiple versions of the same file in different formats).
I absolutely do think that people should make the effort to do all this, of course. But it would need some guidance as to what the end-user expected behaviour is. Multiple end users pulling an engine in different directions is something I can personally vouch for as never ending well, and it would be nice to see players striking up a discussion among themselves about how they'd like to see these kind of decisions work out.
Funny thing is, OGG is actually already listed in Mark V's file extension look up table:
But there must be some code that explicitly ignores or forbids it. Seriously though, just why. It's a relatively popular file format for video game audio.
To enable OGG support find the above bit in a hex editor and replace mp3 with ogg. Simply renaming your OGG tracks to MP3 should work as well, I guess.
I'm confused... Isn't engine inter-compatibility something to strive for? Considering that all other engines support the format AND the fact that most soundtracks available online are in .ogg, it strikes me as odd that Baker would want to force the user to convert the files in order to use them with his engine. Plug'n'play, man, plug'n'play...
Probably doesn't want bloat.
Ok Baker, I NEED ogg support!
I tried the hacks mentioned above (either renaming my ogg to mp3, or hex-editing mark_v), then, after installing the ogg directshow filter ( http://www.vorbis.com/setup_windows/
), Mark_V does play ogg.... and it loads in a FRACTION OF THE TIME as an mp3 file of the same file size!
Do you remember a while back, me going through a LOT of testing because I have an issue where loading an mp3 file causes Mark V to freeze up while the file loads? (mentioned in #651 above)
After some encoding gymnastics I managed to get that loading time (during which everything freezes up) down to only like 4.2 seconds for track04.mp3.... Well, I converted it to an ogg of the same bit rate and file size, and it loads in only 1.23 seconds!
So... yeah. That would be the reason to allow ogg files to be found by Mark V (since it is already capable of playing them).
You really don't have to do all the complicated stuff mh mentioned. Just state, "Mark V supports the following formats, in the following order of preference: mp3, ogg."
And let the users sort their own files and formats and bitrates.
Indeed, there's no need to compare bitrates or anything, just let it read formats A|B|C in the priority of A, B, C. And the game folder should take priority over id1, e.g. say you have OGGs in id1 but e.g. Travail comes with an MP3 soundtrack, disregard the OGGs in id1 then, unless there's not enough tracks in the game folder, in which case read the missing ones from id1. I think that's how Quakespasm handles it anyway, correct me if I'm wrong.
is there a way to set the fog value via an cfg file or fog depends on qc?
Just use an external_entity file(yourmapname.ent) Put the fog command in there.
I Don't Quite Sure What You Talking About
why would i put the fog command in the external ent file? and where exactly should i put it?
i'm using the fog value via the worldspawn. AD mod supports this and shows fog correctly, but it seems kinn's old mod (bastion/marcher) doesn't support fog from the worldspawn, as there's no fog after loading map.
i'm just wondering :)
The worldspawn "fog" key is handled by the engine, it should work in id1 with MarkV (and most engines). Maybe bastion/marcher is resetting it via QC.
My answer was for the simple question of setting fog values via an external(.cfg) file, now I see your problem!
i have a map with a worldspawn settings something like
fog_colour x y z
and after loading this map in AD the fog appears correctly, then i put the very same map in the id1/maps folder and run it from the vanilla game
there's no fog at all
until i manually set the fog numbers in the console, what gives?
those are AD-specific fog keys.
Try: "fog" "density r g b"
Have You Just Tried...
"fog" "Density R G B"
All on one line for stock id?
Try: "fog" "density r g b"
i put this line fog 0.015 0.35 0 0
into an *cfg file without the quotes, but no avail.
Sorry, put it in worldspawn, not a cfg file :) i.e. the worldpawn key is "fog" and the value is "0.015 0.35 0 0"
yay, it's working this way. silly me. Thank you Eric and damage_inc
Hey, I require help
Whenever I try to launch any of those 2 executables using:
./mark_v_linux or ./mark_v_winquake_linux
I get following error:
bash: ./mark_v_winquake_linux: Permission denied
Double-clicking doesn't work either
On manjaro, hope anyone can help
chmod +x mark_v_winquake_linux
Has done the trick for me, it works now!
Marcher / Bastion Imps Sprite Issue
I was playing back some demos of Spy's work-in-progress map in 1.36 and the final frames of the imp fireball (the impact only) show up as non-transparent. If this is not a known issue, or repeatable I can try a screencap to make this a bit more clear. Works fine in other engines. Notably Quakespasm-admod
I've ran into this.
Which sprites are you using?
Kinn original: uses black for transparency requires enfine with support for .png override textures (e.g. Darkplaces) and additive mode.
AD: Not sure.
Keep: I converted all mine to use pink transparency for full support on all engines.
It's actually an older map of Spy's that he's working on getting ready to release pretty soon. Not sure what assets he was using.
@Spy are you using the same assets from the original Bastion/Marcher maps?
@dumptruck_ds Kinn Sprites
Mark_V enables external textures by default, so set external_extures to 0 and reload the map
or just delete all of *.tga files from the sprites folder, they are absolete now
Mark V's adaptive FOV calculation method seems to be quite different from QuakeSpasm and original FitzQuake. I need to increase FOV by about 6 to get the same field of view as in QS (using a 16:9 display). Of note, QS just does vert- when you set scr_sbaralpha 1, while Mark V does hor+. Not sure which method is preferable, however, it's possible that Baker based his adaptive FOV calculation on specific scr_sbaralpha and viewsize values. In particular, setting scr_sbaralpha 1 and viewsize 100 gives about the same FOV as in QS with full screen view point (that is scr_sbaralpha 0). But nowadays most people are probably playing with the transparent HUD, so this just results in smaller FOV.
I have finally come across a solution to my problem. It turns out that I actually didn't have pak1 and pak0.pak. I thought I did, but I didn't check my ID1 folder. Long story short, I found something which contained both pak files and copied them over.
I love it. It runs like a charm:
I'm so sorry for wasting your time over such a dumb mistake of mine.
>looks like glquake
Missing PAK files was the problem?
How does that happen? If I remove my PAK files and try to run Mark V, I immediately get a popup error message saying it can't find the pak files.....
Maybe corrupt pak files?
My laptop is 10 years old, I'd rather not...
Also, it's my first time using this sourceport, so I haven't tweaked all of the settings yet. Though, I'd love that to change. :)
Funny thing is, there were no .pak files at all in my ID1 folder.
The .pak files' contents were actually extracted to my ID1 folder, but the .paks themselves weren't there. Interesting.
Interesting! You may have found "an issue."
I tested with unpacked pak files, and Mark V does indeed just crash without any meaningful error message.
These alternate engines I tested work just fine with unpacked pak files:
Unpacked pak files should be an acceptable setup... so... Mark V should be able to handle that.
Anyway, if you're interested in tweaking Mark V with all kinds of setting which make it look better (in my view), I have a page with downloads and settings to alter: http://www.fvfonline.com/fitzquake.php
Then come play FvF :D
Any interest in bumping Mark V's limits to make it Sepulcher-capable? cf. comments 1661/1662 above.
Also, can anyone say "sepulcher-capable" five times fast?
@Johnny - Some day ... whenever I do the next version of Mark V, which doesn't feel soon.
So It's Dead Huh?
And just when I finished compiling a nice list of bug reports and suggestions. Disappointing.
Gotta love the internet.
So Baker writes "not yet but I will" and you interpret that as meaning "it's dead", eh?
What's this I hear about Quake finally being dead? Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. I guess we can all move on to Unreal Tournament now.
You Mean UT2k18 Aka.....
....Quake Chumpions lololzor
I think you've posted some well thought-out comments, including some refreshingly detail oriented ones. This thread is intended as permanent record of feedback so none of the information is lost.
NightFright could tell you stories, there is an obsolete older Mark V thread here with 2500 posts and his observations about obscure mods + crashes, a few which have led to improvements in Mark V and also Quakespasm -- over time ... it was not quick at all! Ironically, maybe 2 which ericw pointed out solutions, ericw didn't actually do them in Quakespasm until way, way, way later.
In free projects the author is always vastly outnumbered and with limited time and a real life.
@adamer - I'm glad you determined what was up with that (your pakless setup). Sure, in theory it "should" work (except it doesn't in Mark V) and it sounds like it works with other engines, but in practice an actual Quake install whether from Steam or the CD or shareware has pak files -- so yeah ... I'm glad that mystery is solvd.
@QMaster - re:Marcher --- I like the attention to detail/testing/thought it sounds like you are doing with your Uber mod.
I hope that one day I can do another test run as intense as the one I did before that big Mark V update back then. ^^ IIRC there is still at least one issue kinda pending with the final map of Malice when fov changes after reloading the game. It must have to do something with the boss attack and how the port handles the short-term fov changes. It was supposed to be fixed, but a few months ago I managed to get the problem again/still. Need to see what became of it.
is the mod adjusting the fov or is it standard quake
oh reread the post i guess its an evil thing malice does
mods shouldnt ever change the users fov. could bean easy fix
In case you decide to pick up your work at some point in the future, here's my final bucket list for the current version of Mark V. Some bugs, some missing features, and a few things that I think would be beneficial to implement.
- BUG: death camera doesn't reset if you quickload at least once, die and press space to restart the level from scratch.
- BUG: game stutters for a few seconds at launch (or every vid_restart), sometimes leaving the audio permanently cracking.
- BUG: parallax skies are noticeably darker than vanilla GLQuake.
- BUG: vid_multisample does nothing.
- BUG: r_bloom makes textures look grainy, maybe the bloom pass is set to nearest neighbor?
- BUG: adaptive FOV is smaller than it should be, I need to set my FOV to about 96 to get the same FOV as 90 in QuakeSpasm and DarkPlaces (using a 16:9 display). Basically FOV 90 should adapt to FOV 106 in 16:9, not 100.
- BUG: TGA alpha mask isn't properly supported, e.g. font replacements have white outlines.
- No protocol 999 support, crashes when loading Orl's maps like Ter Shibboleth or oms3_2.
- Remove the whole "opengl32.dll found" shenanigans, in this day and age it is most likely a graphics wrapper like ReShade, not the 3dfx driver from the original GLQuake package from 20 years ago. Don't make people hex edit your .exe to get some post-processing effects going on.
- Unlock the OGG support for external music, Mark V already supports it internally, why comment it out on purpose?
- Add optional HUD filtering, nearest neighbor looks bad at non-integer scaling values.
- Add PNG support in addition to TGA.
- Add the "N64 style" minimalistic status bar layout as seen in DirectQ/qbism/RetroQuad/etc. Crazy convenient.
- Add (integer) HUD scaling for the software renderer.Some info on this:
- Add alpha/fence texture support for the software renderer.
- Switch the software renderer from 8-bit to 16-bit to have enough colors for colored lights and proper transparent water. This is what RetroQuad is doing. Or Half-Life for that matter.
Baker, do you have some public repo for this project, or just this zipped sources?
4 player coop with quake spasms controller support is my only wish list item
- Switch the software renderer from 8-bit to 16-bit to have enough colors for colored lights and proper transparent water. This is what RetroQuad is doing.
It isn't. Retroquad renders everything in 8-bit color, using 8-bit tables to access a single 8-bit indexed color palette. The tables are generated from 24-bit color data upon booting up the engine.
Retroquad doesn't use 16-bit color anywhere, and it doesn't do any direct-color transformations in realtime.
Baker, do you have some public repo for this project, or just this zipped sources?
The source code is in .rar format. ;-)
FQ And QS?
Silly noob question time:
Can Fitz Quake happily coexist in the same folder so as to share the same Id1 folder and the like?
Mark V and Quakespasm.
I have been putting Mark V, Quakespasm, FTE, Darkplaces etc in the same Quake installation for years and see no problem other than the save game incompatibility between Darkplaces and others, which is in itself easy enough to fix manually.
That's good news. Thanks for the reply.
Broken Links On Home Page
Hey. Just thought I'd let you know that there are a couple of broken download links on the Quakeone/markv page.
The Undergate download is broken and so is the Frogbot mapset.
I presume it's something to do with the 'updates' that went on there a while back... :)
Also: Why Doesn't This Autoexec Not Work?
bind "AUX5" "+jump" // jump on L1
bind "AUX6" "+attack" // fire on R1
bind "AUX30" "impulse 10" // cycle on dpad-R
bind "AUX32" "impulse 12" // reverse cycle on dpad-L
Can you define "not work"?
I create an autoexec.cfg file with the above text in it (a standard vanilla Quake cfg for controller support).
Mark V doesn't recognise it properly. The console says the engine loaded the autoexec file but the controller doesn't work at all in-game. No response on any button press or joystick movement.
It used to work in older builds of Mark V and Fitzquake. Just not Mark V 1.00.
Check your syntax. Unless I am on crack many cvars need the quotes.
I don't not know why it doesn't not work. I mean, the autoexec itself works -- it's just that I seem to recall that joystick support was simply disabled at some point in Mark V.... So yeah; it used to not don't work and now it won't don't not work.
Baker will have to make it so it doesn't won't don't not work when he gets back to working on Mark V again. It's as simple as that.
There is a workaround though -- you need to use a program that turns your joystick into a keyboard emulator. Something like JoyToKey or Xpadder. You might need to look for older versions of those programs, if the newer versions are no longer free. AutoHotkey can probably do that too, but is a bit more fiddly.
Good luck getting your joystick to stop won't don't not working.
Linux Build And Music
Is it possible to play background music with the current Linux build? Can't get it to work.
it only supports cd audio on windows, and directsound is of course windows-only and artificially limited to just mp3.
Yeah, the joystick code in Mark V is not quite correct.
If you dig deep in the OLD Mark V thread (Google up FitzQuake Mark V), a user with a joystick kindly posted instructions on how to make it work well.
I don't have a joystick, so I messed something up when I was trying to be "cool" or something.
/Mark V supports mp3 music on Windows and the Mac (and in my private experimental build, on the iPhone as well), but not Linux mostly because I didn't have time to get that up and running when I was making the Linux version.
Someone should donate a cheap dual-analog usb gamepad to Baker so he can test this stuff.... You can get them for like $5-$10 on ebay.
Or if you wanna get more fancy, get a Logitech F310 gamepad ($10-$15), which has a switch on the back that lets it change between using XInput/DirectInput, for thorough testing.
Currently Mark V reports that it detects when a joystick is connected, but can't seem to detect any input from the gamepad, using either input method.
Where Can I Get The Most Recent Version
of winquake_gl? the latest packages don't contain it. Is there an archive somewhere?
just found the archive
Within the next week, I expect to release a new version.
1) Optional Mouse driven menu video
. The video doesn't do it justice how convenient it is.
When you have mouse driven menu, you use the menu about 8 or 9 times faster and it becomes far more convenient. You just click away.
The menu looks like the Quake menu is 100% the same keyboard menu, it just is mouse capable also.
2) Fix tool inspector glitch, the save game glitch Pritchard pointed out.
Time has not been one of those things in much supply lately.
I'm very excited to try this new version out. Looks very cool and I LOVE that Levels menu. +1 GG and all that.
what's the lowdown on glwinquake? is the most recent winquake gl and not labeled as such? was it discontinued?
Just wondering if controller support will be re-implemented in the upcoming release. :)
I think sv_aim belongs in the preferences
It's a subtle distinction, but sv_aim is a server-side cvar whereas the options menu is client-side.
What that means is that a nonlocal server could override if it was set from the options menu.
What it also means is that a client may not actually have permission to change it.
So on that basis I disagree; it shouldn't be in the options menu.
I love the new lightning-bolt effect in Mark V, but i also love the classic particles in the other weapons.
Is there a console command that changes only the lightning-bolt effect? :/