|Posted by Shambler on 2017/11/14 21:26:44|
|Wonder If A Specific Retro-shooter Thread Is Warranted?
#10166 posted by Shambler [220.127.116.11] on 2017/08/27 11:32:00
It is! Separate thread because there's a lot of these sort of games, the ethos of them is particularly relevant to this board, and it's inhabitants seem to have some good varying opinions on the matter.
Quake as the eptiome as 90s action FPS:
Very direct control and physics
Simple streamlined gameplay
Brutal visceral and gory
Weird fantasy / gothic / industrial theme
Grungy, coherent graphics
Cool map designs / architecture (for the time)
Varied but consistent bestiary
(many of the above adhered to and greatly enhanced by subsequent custom content)
We all like these aspects, we all like these aspects in other games, we all want to see more of those games, possibly combined with modern graphical styles (Quake Chumpions MAPS might be an example of how far this could go) and maybe very limited modern additions (crouching? an inventory? coherent story? - but nothing that gets in the way of solid action). We perhaps want the next Quake / 90s action FPS spiritual successor...
Modern Retro Shooters:
...and lo, there's a neverending stream of modern retro games many of which are unabashedly marketting themselves as 90s action FPS spiritual successors and particularly highlighting speed, direct control, simple action, limitless violence. Do they have what it takes to hit that mark though??
PLUS MANY MORE LINKED IN THE THREAD BELOW....
Without wanting to opine too much, there seems to be a general trend of possibly not hitting the mark despite some attempts to do so, with a huge variety in how much potential those attempts show, as well as how close these games are to realising the overall harmonious game quality of a typical best 90s action FPS. I.e. Some games seem to do some aspects right, but don't seem to get all the aspects in balance and appealing together.
Doom 4 barely has anything retro in it though, apart from keycards and maybe the health drops from monsters that is vaguely similar to Life Essence in Blood. The progression is almost the same as Painkiller's which is absolutely NOT a retro FPS.
Also killpixel is spot on.
killpixel's project looks fantastic and nails the the retro-shooter aesthetic. No wonder his critique of modern shooters is also so spot on.
Killpixel's Ain't Included On The List Because....
...it so far doesn't like it's going to fit in with "a general trend of not hitting the mark" ;)
now that's a hot trend
Aw Shucks, Guys
wait till you get your hands on the demo then decide if it belongs on a list :D
are you going to use us to make maps for your game?
Hmm. I'm tempted to give you a cute answer like "maybe :)" but that wouldn't satisfy me if I were asking. So to be frank (and probably overly candid) yes, it is intended that the level design team will be comprised of people from the quake, doom and duke nukem 3d communities. HOWEVER, I have not started assembling the team and I'm still quite a ways away. There are still things to be done, things that remain be seen and others that have yet to fall into place. The project's destiny will be clearer after the demo (I'm doing my best to get it out Q1 2018).
So there you go :D
Only Interested In A Few
Dusk, Ion Maiden, Amid Evil and Gibhard.
Most retro inspired shooters are not good. Strafe is one of the big name examples where they failed to properly do the genre justice. Most of them aren't even as good as Strafe.
Strafe is a roguelike-ish FPS, not a Quake clone.
My Perfect Retro-modern Fps
Graphics/asthetics like Devil Daggers, hub-centered world design and combat pacing similar to that of Hexen, slow but not too slow, Quake-style thematic variations, just enough big-picture polish for effect without going overboard into minute details.
Devil Daggers Is Cool
albeit it's far more akin to an FPS version of scoring shmups where the point is NOT "good level design" in the traditional sense but rather in continually replaying the same stages with the same patterns over and over with the goal of self-improvement, beating records, etc. As a highly casual occasional shmup player I can appreciate that; not really my preferred cup of tea, but it's a really good game that's trying to do something much different from old school FPS, however it was marketed. It has the aesthetic down to a T, though, that's for sure.
Doom 2016 is awesome. It's obviously much more in a Painkiller/Serious Sam vein, but it blows those games out of the water in its execution.
I haven't played any of the others mentioned in this thread but I will probably check out the ones Fifth mentioned, and any others that people care to recommend (assuming they don't use procedural level generation).
New Apocryph Trailer
Doesn't impress me - Doom 3-style lighting, narrow cluttered rooms, boring enemies, boring trailer.
Anyway here it is
Aye. Pretty Sure My Favourite Old Skool Shooters...
...weren't box rooms full of bouncing jello blobs which you can hardly see because of the blinding rave effects from the weapons.
I don't mind the lighting tho.
truly awful particle effects
That Looks Really Cool
what game is that?
One of those Dark Souls games
Thing is you can go anywhere you see there
This is what I was talking about a few posts back
Integrate to a "low detail" engine the really great parts of modern tech such as one big detailed level you can travel to any part you see of.
There's nothing oldschool about Doom 2016. It's pretty much just Serious Sam with less enemies and more arenas that lock you in place. Unlike Serious Sam, when you're low on health or ammo enemies just start shooting them out like pinatas so the player never has to think about ammo conservation or health. Even Doom 3 felt more "oldschool" with handplaced encounters, resource management, secrets scattered around maps that aren't collectible bobbleheads, and movement mechanics and Doom 3 is the last game that comes to mind when thinking about oldschool.
I Agree With Anon
Doom 3 is more old school than Doom 2016 (D3 is essentially quake2 at half speed). D3 and D2016 are both rather different games, IMO. As matter of fact, I just beat D3 twice back-to-back this last week (I love the atmosphere, art, sound, animations and general vibe).
I've only beaten D2016 3-4 times and have replayed several of the levels many times. The health-on-demand system really is a deal-breaker for me. I try to compensate by playing on the hardest difficulty and by turning off most hud elements but even then I know it's just an illusion - health is at my fingertips should I ever need it. I really don't care for the arenas at all, either. Don't get me wrong, it's a good game in its own right, but it falls short in some meaningful ways for me. Had they ditched the infinite health and boring arenas the game would have much more staying power for me.
However, Foundry, Argent Facility and Argent Facility (Destroyed) are some of the most pleasing play spaces I've seen in any game.
(D3 is essentially quake2 at half speed)
Quake 2 at half speed is Quake 4, not Doom 3.
Doom 3 was id's attempt at implementing the Half-Life style of scripted storytelling, which was hugely popular at the time. This, together with the heavier renderer, resulted in the slower pacing.
Let's not forget that Quake 1 is also slower than classic Doom. The speed in Quake was reduced to make the levels seem bigger, since the Quake renderer couldn't match the performance of the Doom renderer in big areas back them. One of the first criticisms about Quake was that the levels never featured more than 5 enemies at the same time (which I'm not sure if it's actually true, btw).
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