There should be a middle ground in copying and pasting stuff from other maps. Obviously you shouldn't copy objects that are unique to certain maps and are clearly result of a very creative and hard process(e.g. the portal from Kell's func_mapjam9 map). But it makes little sense to make common arches, windows, crates and doors from zero because even their textures are optimized for a specific shape. One could argue that it's important to learn how to make them (and it is), but the same could be said for textures; there are plenty of free image editing tools, why are we reusing other people's works?
Say No To Prefabs
Making crates, arches, windows and doors from scratch is what mapping is about. If you don't want to map then find another hobby. You're not going to do anything interesting pasting premade shit into your maps. Even if the texture is the same you can always cut the brushes a little different or do something new. Whats the rush? It doesn't take 2 minutes to make an arch and flip and paste it around.
When it comes to custom textures there isn't much original in this game, it's all recycled and re-purposed.
Go Use Snapmap FFS
but the same could be said for textures
Sure but we're talking about the intent of map authors who share their work. I share my maps so people can see how I created a particular piece of geo or how I scripted something to happen and that's it. If I tell you explicitly in the readme not to do it you shouldn't - regardless of the logical arguments you can make in favor.
If someone did that with a texture (they probably wouldn't) I'd respect that.
Middle Ground Supporter Here
I was kind of surprised to learn how negative people are here towards using prefabs.
I'm with vaf on the matter. I think mapping isn't all about laying down brushes from scratch, it's about making interesting looking and fun maps for people to enjoy. And I see no problem using prefabs if they have the original creators' permission.
Some people may do this more for the journey (laying down brushes etc.) while others are more driven by the destination (a finished map), and some mappers might be passionate about designing spaces, but not so much about the items occupying them. A mapper might want to design a parking hall but really doesn't feel like making the cars from scratch, finding it really tedious. So for the things the mapper's not passionate about, prefab cars would be the perfect solution.
Prefabs are one thing, and copy other's people work from their maps is another thing.
Prefabs are cool, quake community use them since the 90s. Copy from other's maps are not cool (except when the author gives permission in the readme file).
Have said that, there are some really old sites with a lot of prefabs out there. I found these with a quick search on google:
(prefabs are divided by category, just choose on the menus and download them)
"If I tell you explicitly in the readme not to do it you shouldn't - regardless of the logical arguments you can make in favor."
In this case a totally agree with you. Even if you come up with a original shape, let's say a different and unique style of bridge, and you allow others to copy it, I don't think other should copy it. I'm talking specifically about generic objects.
The walltorch entity is a good way of thinking it. Sometimes you just want a generic looking torch, sometimes you make your own brush and put a flame on it. I don't think that the existence of a torch entity limits the creativity.
Some people's vision is too limited:
You're not going to do anything interesting pasting premade shit into your maps.
The levels in Super Mario 3D Land are mostly made out of premade assets. I'll let its public reception speak for itself.
Some people only sees Quake stuff through Quake lenses. They're completely unable to see how different approaches could be made to work in Quake. Lazy minded people only sees things from the most ridiculous angle, which is why they ridicule everything.
I Think We're Stumbling On Semantics
Prefabs made to be copy and pasted are awesome. I played with them when that old site was still live.
Jam 9 featured some nice prefabs I used in my map actually! Some Knave windows and door arches. I felt free to use them as that was the intent of the jam organizer.
I think we all agree that Prefabs designed to be used are great resources. And I do agree with the wall torch analogy there.
So copy and paste bad. Prefabs good. Me want a banana.
The only thing I'm against is having some kind of "repository" of prefabs for people to pick doors etc from. And people keep on suggesting it as some good idea, because it'll "save time".. Nobody wants to see the same doorway 10 times in 10 different levels. It's fucking lazy and the idea deserves to be ridiculed.
A tileset editor kinda thing for Quake could be pretty cool imo.
What we really need is http://oblige.sourceforge.net/
combined with prefabs from all of socks maps.
Making crates, arches, windows and doors from scratch is what mapping is about. If you don't want to map then find another hobby.
Brave claim as to what mapping is about, from somebody who may very well have produced 0 maps ever.
I use arch prefabs all the time because I have 0 patience for fucking with microscopic vertex alignment, my time is much better spent on texturing, lighting, and gameplay.
There are people who consider bsp an art form, and appropiately they produce art (i.e. skacky). I'm a complete fucking barbarian who carves almost everything and guess what, my DM4 map may not have looked anywhere as good or detailed as some others but it was still allegedly one of the best in the pack.
Nobody wants to see the same doorway 10 times in 10 different levels.
Then maybe stop using the same doorway textures as every single AD map does.
The only thing I'm against is having some kind of "repository" of prefabs
Sure, Mr. Brushwork Apartheid. Whatever you say.
This Shit Ain't Hard
By definition, a prefab is something that is made once and then copied and pasted potentially multiple times.
Why would you need to rely on other mappers to make those? Is making your own crate and arch prefabs beyond you? If so, good luck drawing the rest of the fucking owl.
Resist the prefabs at all costs, because it doesn't just end with a simple "repository". The mankrip is devising a path for his machine maps as we speak. Hopefuly this warning is not too late
Prefabs repositories existed years ago as you may note elsewhere in this thread ... nothing bad happened.
Nobody wants to see the same doorway 10 times in 10 different levels.
Have you ever played a base map?
anonymous posts are
"fucking lazy and the idea deserves to be ridiculed."
Dumptruck again with the u-turn and betrayal. I was willing to die for you man.
On a serious note. Zzzzz
keep it up TF. Putting effort in where it really matters.
Nuance is lost on some people I guess.
Saving Time Is Always Important
Nuff said. Focus on making your map dream come true.
A Prefab Repo Is Perfectly Reasonable In My Opinion
I don't see what the problem is. Some people don't have much patience for minute texturing/brushwork and would rather concentrate on creating nice spaces. A few of the jams came with jams (I made a few for jam2, for example, which some people used). I always make a prefab database before starting a map because they allow me to quickly iterate spaces and see how they flow.
Besides, a prefab repo with specific objects (such as end portals like in the E3 maps) can come in handy in unifying design codes.