How About Having Some Mapping Competition Again?
something along the lines of 100b, coagula, 1024. an interesting theme with a definite deadline (so maps are actually being finished). might be fun, without the pressure of having to get perfect results.
The Right Angle Competition
Make the best map comprised entirely of rectangular brushes!
Does it mean only 90� angles, without rotated brushes ? Would be interesting in this way indeed...
NO right angles instead?
Brushes are exclusively rectangular, with no rotation allowed.
2000 brush limit, no sky texture allowed, only custom textures allowed.
As a creative limitation and not a technical one that doesn't sound like too much fun.
Have we done our own 1024? We could always just nick the idea from Mapcore. And we'd technically get more perceived space because Quakeguy is shorter than Freeman. :D
Now I Don't Want To Go All Philosophical On This But...
...isn't 'creative limitation' an oxymoron? Surely limitation feeds creativity - you know; "necessity", "mother" and "invention".
would be my favorite in combination with 100 cubic brushes. Seriously, that could be fun.
100b challenges you to make awesome brushwork and an awesome map by being really clever and conservative with brush use.
1024 challenges you to make awesome brushwork and an awesome map by being really clever and conservative with your layout.
Rectilinear-only doesn't make you work around a technical limitation to maintain creativity, it makes you work around a creative limitation to see whose map can be the least boring. You can look at the 100b winners and say "wow it's amazing he pulled that off with only 100 brushes!" but a map with all right angles isn't going to be particularly impressive or even interesting to build or play.
It's What You Make And Not How You Make It
geocomp sounds nice to me too. but it doesn't really go well together with a rectangular brushes limit. would be way less fun (rectuagular could be used as a speedmap theme though).
btw. lun: there was an attempt at 1024� mapping in a sm pack once. turned out to be too much space to be challenging in quake. 512� works better.
of course, geocomp without angled/weird brushes would be rather idiotic. oops :D
an RMX contest? Remake any map from the original quake excluding the few that have already been remixed (e1m1, dm3, ... any others?)
just cos....well, y'know...some people may already be remixing that one
I've not written anything off until I see the results.
And, being an optimist, I hope to be saying, "wow it's amazing he pulled that off with only right-angled brushes!"
And no, I'm not creative enough to be able to do it either :)
your insulting ruse will not work.
Well You Can't Blame Me For Trying
It'd Almost Be Worth Having A Right Nagled Competition
just to prove lunaran wrong...
Vertical Map Contest
Long ago I suggested a "vertical" map contest where the maps had to be 512x512 in X and Y, but with no vertical restriction. Also, no teleporters allowed (except for teleporting monsters into the level.)
Since we never did it, I'm resurrecting the idea.
i want to participate!!! why not a turtle map seccion?
Either push this event back towards the end of May, so the I might have time to participate or select the theme so that I don't need a ton of time to participate (ie 512x512x512 would be good, or 100b, etc.)
And is this a contest or just an event?
I Am Down...
for anything, really, but I would not mind participating in a chainmapping session with some well thought out rules (e.g. specific texture set, prefabs, etc.). Just don't make it too much of a rush job, please :-)
You could get pretty creative, depending on how granular you wanted to get...think of them as pixels.
for a speedmap:
Bestiary - Use every monster from the quake bestiary once and only once in your map.
for a turtlemap:
Terrain - Might be better if I got around to adding tree mapobjects to quoth, but nevertheless a bunch of decent outdoors maps would be new and good. Doesn't have to be temperate, could be sand or snow or flesh. Just as long as the player is always standing on 'ground' instead of 'floor'.
I also like metlslime's "vertical" theme.
Metlslime's vertical idea is rather more interesting than my right angle idea.
I guess the only issue would be the xy area of the map. My guess would be:
2x + 2y < z
To give the mapper a little more freedom in terms of their respective creation, while still maintaining the vertical aspect.
Not sure if I suggested this before:
"Use Every Entity At Least Once" contest! You'd have to really use the entity for gameplay, not just hide them in some inaccessible corner.
We could exempt any entity that is effectively useless for a singleplayer map, like func_episodegate, info_deathmatch, etc. (but not anything that could be used or abused somehow, like item_rune, info_null, etc.)
Actually, this could be used pretty neatly in a single map, it's an idea I've pondered before. You could set up several changelevels in different parts of the map that all point back to the same bsp, only you could have them lead back to an info_player_start2 for when the player collects a rune before leaving. Then you could use episodegates/bossgates to open up parts of the level the player couldn't access before.
Alas, I'm far from 1337 enough to come up with a decent map myself that makes good use of this technique, but someone else here might be.. so just putting the idea out there.
I don't really think it matters what kind of limitation is used - in fact i'd think a 'creative' limitation would be far more inspiring than some stupid bullshit technical one :>
i don't think it would have any negative effects - together with a strong brush count limitation proportion may become much more important than in usual maps. In fact that's something i had in mind for a few years; bringing classic art composition techniques to quake mapping. Just that the viewpoint changes all the time - maybe good use of proportion is a first step in that direction.
What about a 'only ~[20-50] brushes per room' limitation? (decide on a good number, im not an experienced enough q1 mapper to do that)
Could even allow rectangles + cylinders, or any other combination of forms. Or maybe 'positive' rectangles and 'negative' cylinders (cylinder cut outs). �
brushes per room limitation would require room-hallway-room kinda maps... which are boring imo.
what about... cleavage mapping! or crystal mapping! so all the faces in the map have to be parallel to a possible crystal face.. or something.
The tendency of a mineral to break along defined planes determined by the mineral�s crystal structure.
or maybe not
Right Angled Brush Compo
Vondur would win
rj: this is true, and I think necros (?) did this in a speedmap or something. It's what inspired me to run the speedmap session themed "maps you play through twice" but of course, nobody else in that session got it so mine was the only one that actually followed the theme.
Anyway, I'm not sure we want to force everybody to have to have to do the multi-loading rune collection thing. On the other hand, maybe to follow the rules strictly, we should.
More On Teeth-grinding Themes
did someone mention "use every entity once and only once"? i wonder how this would look like. imagine stuck monsters acting as doors, all kinds of items as triggers and very little ammo.
would it work at all? killing cthon for example..
I said "use every entity AT LEAST once" ... my goal was to get people to use entities they rarely consider using, such as monsterjump, wind tunnels, tarbabies, invisiblity, etc.
i sneakily merged your and kell's idea.
That vertical mapping thing sound best to me. Using all the entities would just annoy me.
Vertical And Use Every Monster At Least Once?
If all entities would have to be used someone would need to make a list of all ents...
yeah, killing cthon might not work without two func_door electrodes, for example. And a quad damage with only 11 enemies to kill might be problematic too. So i think it's better to let people use entities more than once. Trying to avoid making the maps gimmicks. We want rules that allow people to make actual good maps that happen to have something special/unusual about them, not gimmick maps where you get the quad damage and then use it to do 10,000 damage to a shootable button or something.
just thought i'd say i think a vertical map idea would be really cool too. :)
Vertical Map Idea Seems More Popular...
...so maybe we should do that. Might be time to move this to its own discussion thread.
I'd Be In On This
I'm gonna be able to map after this weekend..
where's the thread?
tower of babel with a 512x512 base. but what about the entities - using all monsters would include the bosses as well, right? i can't imagine fighting cthon in such a small horizontal area (then again this could maybe introduce some novelty gameplay twists depending on how the mappers cope with it)
.. you can have choice between top-down and bottom-up player's progression... or even a mix of it...
As example Chton could be in a lava bath at the bottom of the babel tower... In anyway, a size of 512x512 sounds to be a good compromise.... maybe adding limitations on entities/item use is not so good, while brush number use (i.e less than 1024) is a must...
...my 2 cents...
Are lift allowed ??? :P
For A Non Mapper
how big is 512*512, an example from another map would be a good idea
it's pretty small. my sm127 was 512�.
i don't know of an area of roughly that size in any of the id maps now, but you can get an idea by taking a look at the wall textures in e1m8: two of those solid metal plates make 512.
anything is allowed, except for teleporters if we follow metl's suggestion closely. though i wouldn't mind a few here and there, unless they are used in excessive amounts or are the only means of moving vertically.
512x512 Is Pretty Small
Would 768x768 be too much? Maybe with a 2nd rule stating that it would have to be at least 2048 or 4096 units tall?
with those 100b maps, was the brush limit an impact on gameplay as well as looks ?
just wondering because I remember some of czg's maps of those being very good gameplay wise and was thinking whether the limit posed an extra challenge in implementing the gameplay too?
how about innovative gameplay for a change
In some sense, yes. For example, every time the mapper adds a monster that teleports in, that uses one brush for the teleporter. And there are smaller things too, like now the mapper can't just make ledges wherever he wants for monsters to stand on, so adding a 3D component to battles can be tricky depending on how the map is designed.
I'd rather see a non-technical limitation - brush / entity / texture / size limits are boring. I really like the tower of babel idea, but i don't want to map inside a 512 box no matter what - these limitations only annoy me :>
That's why i suggested:
2 * (width at widest point of map) + 2 * (length of longest point of map) < (total height of map)
I think this cures the vast restrictions of having a 512x512 map, while still ensuring that the map is definetly a vertical oriented one.
The vertical idea sounds excellent. I'd suggest that teleports (besides summoning in monsters) are allowed, but only for horizontal movement.
I Mak Thred For Discuss