is down. and will be down for the foreseeable future as I have no interest in resurrecting it. 

I never emailed you when ld.org went down, but assumed that you didn't want to keep paying for it so I just moved to quaddicted. Thanks for the hosting while it lasted though :) 

Yes, many thanks to you scampie for some good solid years of hostin' 

Anyone know if there are any updated Dark Forces engines available? I seem to remember there being some a while ago, but I haven't had any luck in finding any. 

Ditto on thanks for hosting, Scamp. I too have moved on the quaddicted, due to the kindness of Spirit, but was glad to have your help. 

Something like this? http://df-21.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1187 

Biff: what's the url? biff.quaddicted.com doesn't seem to work right now (forbidden). I like to drop by your site every now and then to see the awesome pics you put up. I sometimes even read your film reviews :)

Spirit: is there any way to find out who is hosted on Quaddicted? 

conversation with an old man about gta4
aka 'Grand Theft Auto IV: FAQ for old people'
http://www.236.com/news/2008/04/29/grand_theft_auto_iv_faq_for_ol_6180.php 

Biff just hasn't put on something visible yet I think.

I updated http://www.quaddicted.com/about.html with the full list of hosted people, thanks for the nudge. ;) 

http://underworld.planetquake.gamespy.com/index.html

Reviews:
Fort Ratsack (by biff_debris)
Slave To A Machine (by RickyT23)
Lair of the Dragon Ogre (by DeathMethod)
Tower of Dal Gurak (by Spy) 

(Thanks Tronyn/Underworldfan btw!) 

anyone decent at skin modification? I don't need a new skin, I just want to modify one so that it's different colours and a bit dirtier. But I suck too much. 

Thanks for review :) 

Liked the horde combat.

Another question: Anyone want to rotate a skybox for me? Again this should be simple, but I tried for like more than an hour yesterday and kept fucking it up. Yup, I can be a real retard. 

I made some statistics from the sp maps:
http://www.quaddicted.com/?p=112 

Yet, the greatest map of that period is missing from the archive. http://negke.quaddicted.com/files/home_ke.zip Behold! 

we need two more bsps adding to that archive ;) 

1997 may have been filled with creativity, but it appears that the time around 2000/2001 was the silver age of quake mapping due to the high ratio of awesome maps and their volume. 

Ha! 

nice work on generating those stats. 

run right up to present day?

ie - where it says 2006 - 2007, er, I know how Excell graphs can work, so the figure plotted for 2007, albeit right at the end of the x-axis, does that mean figures for the entire of 2007?

:P 

It's 01.01.1996 - 31.12.2007.
2008 looks promising though. 

I think 2008 will be promising indeed...
Since 3/4 years the number of released map didn't changed that much, so let's assume we will see the same number of release in 2008. So regarding the fact that map quality is constantly increasing, we will have very good fun time this year for sure.... errr or a t least during this end of year :P 

Who asked Q to ban everyone from #tf? Fess up. 

Everyone is unbanned now. 

Nice review Tronyn, you rock, sir. 

It takes me a horribly long time to do anything, but eventually it gets done.

Nice map. Now lets see you get back to METAL 

Is czg's curved pipes tutorial uploaded anywhere?

There's one on archive.org but it's not got any pictures unfortunately... 

speeds has one but can't find it.

12-sided circles,the outward and inward slopes in a 90 degree curve coming from down and going to the right are 1:0 (straight up), 1:2, 2:1, 1:0 (straight to the right). The piece interfaces have 1:4 and 1:1 slopes.

If you want to do this for more complex shapes, you have to stretch them a bit wider, then shear vertically and finally horizontally (this shrinks them back).

24-sided works a bit similarly but you need a finer grid.

I made templates some time ago that vis without leaks. I'll upload them some time. 

but I hope you get the idea.
The correction.
y:x
1:0,2:1,1:2,0:1

Ie in degrees
90, 63, 27, 0 

Here it is now on the Shub-Hub, in a zip! Should work fine, just extract it to a unique folder! Or a folder full of junk. Should work either way:

http://www.shub-hub.com/files/misc/Curve_tutorial_files.zip

Thanks czg for a comprehensive tutorial! 

thanks, but I'm trying to remember the actual numbers for the pipe bending, how much to stretch and how much to shear in each direction when the starting section is a certain size... any idea? 

that comes from bottom and goes to the right
stretch a section to the left, then shear it up from the left and shear it right from the top until you're at 1:2 angle.
It's not a huge amount, it's pretty fast to experiment it with a 12 sided curve. Ie if you were left short, do a couple undos and stretch more this time.

Oh, first clip the pipe segment so that that it's a trapezoid from the side, ie the ends have 1:4 slope. 

http://speedy.planetquake.gamespy.com/tut_pipe.htm

czg`s works in wc only 

thanks, but I'm trying to remember the actual numbers for the pipe bending, how much to stretch and how much to shear in each direction when the starting section is a certain size... any idea?

(i'm going to use compass bearings to explain, it seemed the easiest way)

assuming you have your initial segment (with the 1:4 edge) laid out with the angled edge facing north east (as it were) so that you want to curve up to the north & round to the east, your second segment must be vertically (or should i say longitudinally...) stretched so that the outer edge extends beyond that of the end of the first segment by twice the length of the first segment's outer edge (ie. if your first segment has an outer ledge that spans four squares, the second segment's outer edge should extend 8 squares beyond the north corner of the first edge). then you clip downwards so the inner edge ends up twice the length of the first segment's inner edge, and clip off the south-westerly corner.

then for the magic skew, you take the outer ledge of your second segment & stretch it westerly by 9/8ths. so if your segment spans 8 squares horizontally (or latitudinally, heh) then you'd extend it one square to the west. then skew the north edge to the east until it fits together. then clone, rotate by 90 & flip to get the other half.

i think that about covers it.. the 9/8ths is the only real key number to remember; the rest of the measurements largely depend on the size of the radius you're curving around.. it's just a case of each edge being twice as long as the initial segment (once the corner is clipped off) 

i just read that again and jesus christ if that wasn't the least clear explanation ever :|

these should help a bit more:

http:/isoterra.co.uk/images/curves/Image1.jpg
http:/isoterra.co.uk/images/curves/Image2.jpg
http:/isoterra.co.uk/images/curves/Image3.jpg
http:/isoterra.co.uk/images/curves/Image4.jpg
http:/isoterra.co.uk/images/curves/Image5.jpg
http:/isoterra.co.uk/images/curves/Image6.jpg 

http://isoterra.co.uk/images/curves/Image1.jpg
http://isoterra.co.uk/images/curves/Image2.jpg
http://isoterra.co.uk/images/curves/Image3.jpg
http://isoterra.co.uk/images/curves/Image4.jpg
http://isoterra.co.uk/images/curves/Image5.jpg
http://isoterra.co.uk/images/curves/Image6.jpg 

...curve several rows of whatever it is your trying to curve at the same time, at different radiuses! Then just keep the one you need...

Here are some prefabs I keep handy, nothing much but takes the sting out of doing it from scratch every time...

http://shub-hub.com/files/misc/acurve.zip 

*crawls back into the corner* 

those stretch amounts. I just eyeball it and undo if I was left short and do more. But thanks rj. 

this is one of the reasons why skew/shear for groups is very important in a map editor. 

bah just keep the sides parallel and no need for the additional wanking with scale on the ohther axis 

from what i can make of your tutorial, it doesn't look like it would work in WC. at the part where you "extend it and cut at 45 degree angle", the segment appears to get extended in the direction of the skew, which you can't do in WC without tedious amounts of vertex manipulation. whether you can achieve the same effect by extending first before skewing i don't know, but upscaling by 9/8ths is hardly a cumbersome task to want to work around. 

the problem with upscaling its not universal, while just keeping the sides parallel is - no matter what angle, shape, size or editor

I havent touched wc in 10 years so i cant say which way works better there 

thanks a lot all, expecially RJ, those shots helped me figure it out pretty sharpish. Can you tell I haven't touched an editor for a while? 

You're my hero. 

So the UK approved hybrid embryos. That's pretty neat.

Discuss. 

czg and kinn can have babies now. 

Some hilarious stuff is going on in USA.
http://articles.citypages.com/2008-05-21/news/moles-wanted/ 

I like how much they worry about the Democratic National Convention! 

http://www.reason.com/blog/show/126608.html 

it isn't hunky dory everywhere else, of course it isn't.
The stuff I could tell and show you from here, some of it is quite funny too. 

http://underworld.planetquake.gamespy.com/index.html

Reviews:
Katagean Redoubt (by Simulacrum)
Freaky Base (by Trinca) 

Trinca's Freaky Base review download is targetted and titled "slave.zip" 

the scientific breakthrough of our lifetimes:

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/05/24/0345245&from=rss

And of course it would not be Slashdot if the commentators did not spend the majority of the discussion on a pedantic flame on the existence of the letter 'H' in ancient times. If only Douglas Adams was still alive! 

I'll wait for more independant verifications from respected scientific bodies before I get excited about this though. Meanwhile I'm going to file this next to Steorn and the likes... 

i need one or two brave soulds who would alpha/beta test a two-day-work-90-monsters map, that still needs some polish - but I'd like to see others play it before I finetune way more... Oh, it's only available on hard skill, the exit is a few rooms early and i still got some packet overflows i need to fix ;). 

and ill send you a demo withing 48hrs max (prob much shorter time ;-P ) 

You've got mail ;) 

I'd test also if you want, mail is in profile. 

I'd rather wait for a new version, though. i think i've got enough material for a new version, and i'd like to 'save up' on first impressions ;)

Thanks and i'll bug you later ;) ! 

"Death Blooms. Somewhat on the smaller side, should be good for 1v1 or small ffa."

http://j-spot.backshooters.com/jhmm3.html 

If you read his website "jspot.backshooters.com" theres a map called "House of the Flying Rabid Hamsters"!! Cool. 

i finally put up a page so that you can find and download my levels and sources:

http://celephais.net/levels/ 

You should really be ashamed for Antediluvian because it is fucking unfair and stuff!
http://www.vimeo.com/848513
Hilarious videos there. czg is a dick of a game designer too. ;)

Well, that guy uses Fuhquake (or ezquake) for playing sp maps so his opinion should no matter at all, ha! 

the dude of the Simpsons who sells comics..... ? 

Running past every single monster to wake it up and then complain about hordes... right.

The scare moments in czg's maps are actually pretty cool. Like the Shambler telefrag in terra3 (as shown) or the crusher in some other map. 

Funny video. I don't know what he keeps whining about, he makes it look pretty damn easy. Wierdo. 

Well, taking down shamblers with the shotgun using peek-a-boo tactics is hard to categorize as "fun". 

His videos on Terra are pretty funny. Terra3 especially.

Should get him on Ruined Nation, see what he makes of that with all his poncy bunny-hopping gameplay... 

in antedeluvian but lack of ammo I don't think was a concern. someone should find the antedeluvian release thread and prove me wrong.

calling it an example of a "horrible" map is a little myopic though. 

You'll be wishing for this video to end.

Ain't that right. 

he's not entirely serious there 

...he's obviously serious about CZG being a dick, right?

Right??

Please?? 

He plays it good. Good aim. 

...he's obviously serious about CZG being a dick, right?

Right??

Please??

Yeah, I mean there's some things you just don't joke about. 

those videos are funny. 

wtf? he complains about sparse ammo but skips over at least 3 ammo boxes. 

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=wUhCK-JKMQE

Wow Pink mis about to be censored :P 

and finishes with 96 shells 

I just spent several hours today encoding videos just to realise now that I captured in 640x512 instead of 640x480. DAMMIT! 

Not that Conan, the other Conan:

http://www.mrlycon.com/index.php?site=articles/conan_radiant 

That's a wacky find alright. Very interesting indeed. 

Not that Conan, the other Conan

what's "that conan?" the only conan game i know of is the MMO they're talking about in that article. 

There was this other Conan game for consoles a few months back, pretty much like God of War. 

for some reason i missed that entirely :) 

Ruined Nation (by Distrans)
Laboratory X (by Orl)

http://underworld.planetquake.gamespy.com/index.html 

http://www.wwtdd.com/post.phtml?pk=7281 

Nice review of distrans' map ! 

 

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=18843 

Wonder why? Answer: Steam. 

I think there's loads of PC's everywhere! Facebook etc means that loads of people want PC's, they've become mre accessible to the public lately because more and more "non-digitally-minded" socialites are buying into the idea of "modern communication", everyone being "groomed" into this idea along with the growth of the mobile cell-phone market. More and more people have cable... Digital cameras, easily sending media to freinds in a much more free-hand way... These are the reasons that PC's are being sold more and more! As for PC-Gaming, well people want it all! They buy consoles to go nicely with their flat-screen TV's, saving them the need to configure anything at their leisure! PC's are the tools used to make modern games, but people want to be able to play these games on their consoles.

But...

There will always be a minority of people who don't buy consoles, but whom still have a platform to play games - their PC! So surely manufacturers will continue shipping titles to the PC, simple as to maximise their potential market..... ? 

There will always be a minority of people who don't buy consoles, but whom still have a platform to play games - their PC!

This is not a minority. This is the vast, vast majority.

This is why developers that target people who want to play games on computers that aren't made specifically for it are doing so well (basically popcap and WoW at this point). The PC gamer as we consider them is kind of a niche. 

Can relate to wuggas take on ant. Laugh. I played through chaos and rubicon yesterday (nice web page for the maps too) and they didn't drive me a little crazy like antedeluvian. Shit he can play though. 

"So surely manufacturers will continue shipping titles to the PC, simple as to maximise their potential market..... ?"

The answer is: maybe. Shipping on PC is a -LOT- more work than it is to ship on consoles. With consoles, once it works on your xbox at the office, it will work on everyone's xbox. With PCs, you have to enlist an army of compatibility testers and add tons of special case code to handle every possible permutation of hardware and driver issue. It adds a lot of overhead and fewer and fewer companies are willing to be bothered anymore.

The PCs greatest strength is also it's greatest weakness. 

The PCs greatest strength is also it's greatest weakness.

With great power comes great responsibility. 

I would say that perhaps as we move into the future we will see technology reach a certain plateau....?

Already we would see that modern console games share the same technology as mid-high end graphics cards have to offer. The same technology which is used to power PC games and console games alike.

Admittedly there are compatibility problems at the moment with regards to PC gaming, but I would say that as hardware is pushed boldly and blindly into the future software is running to catch up, and it's a loosing battle. I would guess that ten or even five years down the line compatibility/hardware requirements become a much less significant issue with cross-platform games support as platforms having the power to run software becomes much less of a questionable issue...

Its true what some have said - buying a newer PC to play one or two key games (Crysis) is a strange thing to do - especially as the games arent that great other than appearance wise. And also let it be true that top selling games (WoW) do not necessarily have to be the ones with the best graphics, but the ones with the better gameplay. Surely a shift away from creating games which have "groundbreaking graphics" towards games which have "vastly appealing gameplay" in the future would result in perhaps a larger number of games, with more focus during development on the idea of "making a good game" rather than trying to "exploit new hardware to the max".

Imagine a game like World of Warcraft, which is supported by consoles and PC's which has ONE online network for all platforms - each platform available to utilize and access one online unified community. I would say this could be just around the corner.... 

It's a technology rockface. There's potentially some plateau at the top, but there's a million different ways to reach it. It may also be well beyond our lifetimes that any such plateau can even be imagined, let alone designed as a viable framework.

Possibly as OS's continue improve we'll see better cross-pollination, but I wouldn't bet on it. 

Shouldn't Nvidia and ATI have a strong interesting in making PC gaming interesting?
Their first step should be to make the drivers better (so programming gets easier), i guess.

CPU vendors share that interest, too. Where are the ueber-cool, free, resource-hog games that are sponsored by CPU vendors? If I were Intel, i'd sponsor all the free OpenSource engines out there, and maybe the mod scene, too. 

There's potentially some plateau at the top

yes it's called the NWO 

Bahá'ís believe that it embodies God's divinely appointed plan for the unification of mankind in this age. 

I would say that perhaps as we move into the future we will see technology reach a certain plateau....?

shitting christ I hope not... 

I can't wait to have to build another new computer with a kilowatt power supply that puts out more heat than a camping stove so I can play games that are even more expensive and unoriginal.

Stay away, technology plateau! 

http://www.moddb.com/mods/1066/gundam-universe/news/28074/gundam-universe-version-10-released

Quake3 mod... 

did you ever get my mail response? not that there was anything (terribly) important in it, i just want to know ;) 

Sorry - I haven't received anything... :O 

Can anyone recommend any good FTP programs for windows? 

http://sourceforge.net/projects/filezilla 

of course, don't use ftp, it's unsecure use sftp. Same reason never use telnet but ssh. 

firefox add-on 

has great ftp support... 

Just click past the little popup about paying (you're not required if it's for personal use). 

http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=88459

This game has blatently ripped off ENTIRE LOCATIONS from Oblivion, UT2004, Thief 3 and perhaps other games also, and it is now on store shelves, I can smell a major lawsuit from the other side of the milky way...

Amazing... 

the backgrounds in that adventure game are all screenshots.

This is interesting legal territory. They're not shipping assets from any of those games, they're using screenshots of them, which I think falls into the same legal territory as cover bands or sampling/remixing.

/me gets popcorn 

Current games/movies ripped off for this adventure game

* Black & White 2
* Oblivion
* Morrowind
* Diablo (Skulls, Helm, the freakin' UI)
* Theif
* Silent Hill 3
* Painkiller
* Unreal Tournament 2003/2004
* Konami's Silent Hill series
* Troika's Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines (PC)
* The 1997 film Spawn
* Pirates of the Caribbean

legal teams moving in:

http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/1343/bethesda-legal-team-looking-into-limbo-of-the-lost

ROFL! what drama! 

it would be an AWESOME failure of the copyright system if they can claim copyright on the screenshots. That could easily be the death of all sites like gamespot and the like, couldn't it? 

BREAKING NEWS: They were all faked screenshots. 

http://www.trisynergy.com/products/screens.asp?id=153 Shots 3-6 are from Enclave. 

haha, we were lolling at how awful that game looked in the trailer...

this ripping-off thing is just the icing on the cake 

http://www.kentmessenger.co.uk/paper/default.asp?article_id=9644&slide_id=1&newspage=2&searchkeyword=&searchpage=1 

Current games/movies ripped off for this adventure game...

With this many games ripped off, it almost enters into the realm of artistic statement or meta-game commentary or something, except there doesn't seem to be any such lofty goals in this case.

it would be an AWESOME failure of the copyright system if they can claim copyright on the screenshots. That could easily be the death of all sites like gamespot and the like, couldn't it?

There's something called fair use. Putting screenshots on a game review site qualifies. Using screenshots as backdrops in an adventure game doesn't. There's no contradiction or inconsistency, this is not a failure of copyright. 

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=18999

Tri Synergy Discontinues Limbo Of The Lost On Stolen Asset Allegations Following accusations that PC title Limbo of the Lost used assets taken from The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and Thief: Deadly Shadows, among other games, publisher Tri Synergy has discontinued distribution of the game.

The company claims it had no knowledge that developer Majestic Studios reused the level designs and artwork without permission.

The company claims that it is "shocked" by recent screenshot comparisons from gaming communities GamePlasma and NeoGAF that allegedly show Limbo of the Lost using level designs and artwork originally from a multitude of other games.

The adventure game, which uses 2D screenshots of environments for its backdrops, seems to include pictures of games including The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, Thief: Deadly Shadows, Diablo II, Unreal Tournament 2004, Unreal Tournament 2003, Diablo II, Crysis, Silent Hill 4: The Room, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, World of Warcraft, Painkiller, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines, and other titles.

According to Tri Synergy, at no point during its dealings with Majestic Studios did the publisher have any knowledge of these similarities. Tri Synergy has states that it has contacted Majestic and that it is awaiting the studio's response. Tri Synergy plans to release another statement once they know more about the alleged asset theft.

UK-based developer and publisher G2 Games, Limbo of the Lost's publisher in Europe, has yet to comment on the accusations.

Somewhere in a Kentish pub, three old wankers are getting pissed up right now. 

I bet this is some giant hoax.
If it isn't, the whole "we had no idea" thing is bullshit, they publish games, if none of them was capable of recognising any of these screenshots, they shouldn't be in the business. 

I find it hard to believe that nobody at that publisher had played Oblivion or any of the other games that were ripped off. 

I find it more plausible that nobody at the office actually touched the game itself. 

but then as a bitter developer of three long years I don't have a lot of faith in publishers 

3 whole years, huh? Just wait. :) 

Iv seen such games in russia (lame games re-using art from the other games)
even more so Iv had some communication with the ppl who do them. But thats Russia - the land of the free (from copyright laws) :) 

ask around about the lunaran bitter. if I were a microbrew I'd be an acquired taste. 

Somewhere in a Kentish pub, three old wankers are getting pissed up right now.

Bang on the money.

Lunaran, you develop bitter? Sounds like a cool job; games dev just makes you cynical and sarcastic. 

Lunaran is the bitterist motherfucker I know. 

"ask around about the lunaran bitter. if I were a microbrew I'd be an acquired taste."

You must also be pretty young. Because, after awhile, the bitter thing gets tiresome and you move on. ;) 

 

or you move out 

I only saw screenshots of it, and it was on some Quake mappers website. He had quite a lot of levels on there. I think his nickname started with "T"??

The levels in particular I'm interested in is the one(s) were he used that Scourge of Armagon big marble white brick texture.

Any ideas? 

Tyrann? Did Moonlight Assault use that white brick?

http://disenchant.net/ 

http://www.quaddicted.com/spmaps.html
click on the "author" link to sort by names. 

Wasn't him, but I managed to find a link to the person from the page you gave. It was Tronyn and the map was Coven Of Ebony. 

http://www.tgdaily.com/html_tmp/content-view-37925-113.html 

But who needs performance anyway, when you've got omg shiny shiny things? gg Intel, working hard on what matters most to gamers everywhere: gloss. 

raytracing is cool and nice and all, and just needs hw support. 

BlackDog

That may be missing the point somewhat. Realtime ray tracing would lead to a very unified looking world where everything is lit in exactly the same way, every reacts properly to lights, etc. It would lead to more immersion which I think would be hard to argue against as a negative. 

There's nothing to stop rasterising hardware from using a unified lighting model. See Doom 3 and Stalker.

Intel is pushing raytracing because they'd really love to sell a bunch of expensive hardware, and they can't compete with GPU performance and quality on traditional rasterising tasks. That shows very clearly in these shots: there's flat shading on the models, crappy texture filtering, terrible performance, and pathetic resolution.

There's also shiny things. Well, colour me unimpressed. 

 

"There's nothing to stop rasterising hardware from using a unified lighting model. See Doom 3 and Stalker."

Ray tracing can bounce light. No current real time engine bounces light. And I will all but guarantee that Doom3 and STALKER are using lightmaps in many areas.

"That shows very clearly in these shots: there's flat shading on the models, crappy texture filtering, terrible performance, and pathetic resolution. "

Eh, that's art assets that were designed for a completely different lighting model. Once the technology is more solidified a killer art team would make it look great. 

I'm not getting into this discussion cause I have no clue, but having gone through most of the Doom3 source maps, no it does not use lightmaps. It actually takes some hacking about with the shaders to even get lightmaps in. 

Doom 3 was completely unified and realtime. Stalker used lightmaps on the world, but for occlusion and not lighting. It also implemented a limited form of bounced lighting, by the way. :)

As for the assets, I wonder if they aren't normalmapped in those shots because of issues getting the shading right or because of the extra performance hit (hgh quality texturing is expensive in a raytracer). 

It'd be awesome if doom3 had lightmap support of some sort. 

gaytracing is so far behind its not funny 

i WISH d3 had proper lightmap support. :\
if only to bake on ambient occlusion, ffs.

i'd be more impressed with realtime ambient occlusion, actually....... 

texturing slower in raytracing? why? at first glance, i'd guess you just need a texture lookup for each ray.

The nice thing about raytracing is that there's basically no hacks involved, much unlike rasterizing where everything is one giant hack ;)

global illumination raytracing isn't really realtime yet, i think. 

... and thinking "when will this be real time?"

Though I guess original-Myst-level stuff has probably been possible in real time for a while now (though obv. I'm talking about ray tracing, not realMyst :) 

is at least one damn good reason to look forward to the development of raytracing, scalability:

http://www.flipcode.com/archives/Raytracing_Topics_Techniques-Part_1_Introduction.shtml

One document especially grabbed my attention. It's titled: "State-of-the-Art in Interactive Ray Tracing", and was written by Wald & Slusallek. I highly recommend this paper. Basically, it summarizes recent efforts to improve the speed of raytracing, and adds a couple of tricks too. But it starts with a list of benefits of raytracing over rasterization-based algorithms. And one of those benefits is that when you go to extremes, raytracing is actually faster than rasterizing. And they prove it: Imagine a huge scene, consisting of, say, 50 million triangles. Toss it at a recent GeForce with enough memory to store all those triangles, and write down the frame rate. It will be in the vicinity of 2-5. If it isn't, double the triangle count. Now, raytrace the same scene. These guys report 8 frames per second on a dual PIII/800. Make that a quad PIII/800 and the speed doubles. Raytracing scales linearly with processing power, but only logarithmically with scene complexity. 

that... doesn't make sense. that means that with enough processing power, you could make a scene infinitely complex without any difference in performance... 

sentence to mean that the ray tracing algorithms will yield a stable product where the problem of rendering is only proportional to the size of the data set that it is handling. 

One of the latter articles features an easy to fallow explanation of kd-trees. 

in monkey phonetics I trust 

everyone knows raytracing performance is much less dependant on polycount, much more on resolution

so throw 1600x1200 at it and cry 

build ray tracers: Way to embarrass yourself, speeds:

http://www.flipcode.com/archives/Raytracing_Topics_Techniques-Part_4_Spatial_Subdivisions.shtml

The last scene from the previous article (the one with the sphere grid to show off the new refraction code) took almost 9 seconds to render on my pimpy 1.7Ghz Toshiba laptop with 1600x1200 screen (I know resolution has nothing to do with it, but I thought I would mention it anyway). And that's just for simple stuff. Later on we will add area lights, and to test the visibility of those, we will need lots of rays – for each pixel, that is.  

Because AFAIK, speeds is right: Every pixel adds one ray to be traced, so raytracing complexity is very much dependent on resolution. Can someone explain this? 

logarithmic means the time grows slower. It still goes to infinity when the polycount goes to infinity. 

of the advantage in size and speed you obtain when you use vector graphics as opposed to bit map graphics in web apps. The advantage comes from the fact the image is a sheer calculation that scales perfectly with the resolution whereas the bit map is a an indexed means of storage.

The advantage of ray tracing is similar:

http://www.iss.rwth-aachen.de/Projekte/grace/raytracing.html

The results are based upon sheer calculation whereas rasterization relies on spans of texturized pixels. The advantages will be more apparent when mega units of polygons are rendered with surfaces represented by polies instead of textures.

Rather old, but still relevant:

http://graphics.cs.uiuc.edu/~jch/papers/rtqjs.pdf 

are wrong, hence the first site I linked. It does have something to do with it, but that becomes less relevant with larger data streams. 

before I crawl into bed, this is what Bikker has been up to of late:

http://igad.nhtv.nl/~bikker/ 

smooth lighting with raytracing.
I mean if you trace from the eyes and not from the light sources, once you hit the first surface, your beam splits to a million different directions. And then again for the next bounce and then for the next. How much until the ray dies or goes to the sky?
It's a very hard problem and results in ugly and unphysical hacks that produce very stupid looking images. 

Rasterisers texture very quickly because the inner loop is a good match for hardware. Triangles go through the pipeline and wind up on the screen as scanlines, basically two endpoints with some associated attributes (texcoords, vertex colour, etc). Texturing the scanline is just a matter of interpolating those attributes between their two known values, which is very fast. Cache coherency is also good, since two adjacent pixels will be located close in the same texture (mipmapping ensures this).

In comparison when you fire off a ray, the hardware has no idea how that pixel will need to be shaded. 

http://code.google.com/p/quake-gamecube/ 

but that's a large part of raytracing optimisation, making things run in a way that you can use coherency between rays. And, yeah, as long as we don't have gpu like computing power for raytracing... 

Now I ain't much good at the internets, like some of you whizzkids, but does all this technologistic hocus-pocus mean that dem computering games goan be mighty purdy? 

Gameplay'll still suck some dem balls tho. 

"Gameplay'll still suck some dem balls tho."

Well, ray tracing doesn't really affect gameplay unless you're going to argue visibility of enemies in a unified lighting scheme or something. 

Thats cool Spirit!! The screenshot is too dark tho....

Totally ruins everything in my life.... 

but atm raytracing stands no chance for realtime rendering vs "raseterizing", cause the later been advanced by the whole software and hardware industy for the last 10+ years and its not stopping. I think Carmack ok Sweeney, said that, not my words really.

tere is a joke that goes "Ray tracing is the technology of the future and it always will be!"
and in the future we`ll have a nice blend both
but so far there is no reason to get any excited 

It's nice to see research into other areas, that's all. It's not time wasted if something of value is learned - even if that something is that ray tracing isn't currently viable or what-have-you.

Pushing more and more triangles through the pipeline will likely reach a point of diminishing returns. 

being skeptical of the benefits of raytacing. Sweeny seems more interested in the idea as far as I can tell from the interviews I've read.

////WARNING - BUZZ WORDS IN USE UP AHEAD////

There is is an interesting correlation, at least in my mind, between the scalability raytracing offers and what is shown to occur with very high end theoretical languages like Haskell. Haskell is so theoretical versus practical a language that the designers had to apply monadic math theory just to achieve an interface for Input/output.

However, what research is showing these high level languages are performing better
at mega data sets than relatively low level languages like C++. The extra rigorous application of mathematics to their design makes their comparative performance more stable under stress tests. 

is way easier on multicore, as is raytracing. 

That Creature Creator is magic. Pure magic.

LOOOOOOOOOOVE 

I would never object to an honest attempt to advance the field. But this isn't research, this is a commercial for Intel's new hardware. 

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/games/promotions/spore/uk/*http://h.yimg.com/jh/content/p/1/1220360/spore_creature_creator_yahoo617.exe

^^
yahoo has a version of it up 

link 

to our aguirRe.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/17/healthscience/17mund.php 

very fascinating, HeadThump.
Without Hitler and Stalin fucking up Europe, where would we be now? 

So has anyone tried StreamMyGame http://www.streammygame.com ? As bizarre as it sounds and technically unfeasible as it sounds, it actually seems to work from what I've seen from YouTube videos, see one of Crysis here: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyb0Wg1mthM&NR=1 

when I asked myself if anyone would be interested in that article when I posted it :)

It is altogether possible that if web technology was developed in the 30's that it would have been centralized with limited access for the masses much like the stunted development of television, given most Western nations, including mine, had a strong authoritarian/bureaucratic bent at that time.

Consider the suppression of cable television as a medium. The technology was developed in the same time frame as broadcast, but because the doyens of our FCC believed it would be difficult to control content on cable to the extent they could on the three networks; it wasn't allowed to develop commercially for over thirty years.

We also had a similar stifling of innovation in telecommunications technology and commercial use with the (government granted) AT&T monopoly. It wasn't until the Bells were broken up in the mid eighties that long distance communication became cheap and affordable enough for your average Joe Middle-Class Blow to set up his own servers and for small start ups to build up there own net based servers.

So, it might have not made much difference, but that is just speculation. Without Hitler and Stalin as looming threats, it is also possible and likely that Europe would have developed along different lines, Managerialism (a term used by some political scientist in the 30's) would have lost its allure as a governing principle, and where leading technologist realized that at least in communications decentralization is a good thing. 

Laugh... HeadThump, if you're right about Haskell having similarities to Intel's ray tracing project - just like those functional languages - ray tracing in games will be good for f*** all in the real world.

But Intel shoving the thing down our throats may be another matter. 

on society, science, technology, politics... so much so that speculating on what might have been different seems a bit pointless to me.

OTOH, maybe all the things that came out of it would have happened anyway, and all that changed was the rate things happened. Who knows? :) 

But there is the school of thought that anything that happens in society is a product of it.

Meaning that Hitler and Stalin existed in the first place because there was something fundamentally wrong, which gave rise to the attitudes existing outside and so the control and nanny state culture.

Hindsight is a great thing - back then it almost certainly seemed the way forward. Governments exist to remove autonomous control, but they are necessary.

This same conversation will be had in ten years about technology n. 

I wonder how much demand there is for a site that is:

1) about security and privacy of communications in the digital age
2) with topics ranging from securing data stored locally on a computer, web browsing, email, IM, etc etc
3) is written in plain and easy to understand language
4) explains all the terms in simple language and gives examples of most common threats and how to identify them
5) introduces the reader to the most common solutions and concepts behind preventing privacy and data breaches
6) explaining why they should care in the first place

Any thoughts? 

People will always rip people off. Having said that I dont even know what GPL means, so YEAH! - A site like you describe could be very usefull! :P 

there are plenty of programmers in active studios pissing their pants thinking of what multi-threading will look like on the next series of Play Stations and X-boxes, and how that can be handled in a traditional imperative framework. 

 

Jago - its a good idea!

You see there are a lot of people out there who know very little about such things. A computer is a "box what does stuff".
The internet is a "box what does stuff".

I mean are you talking about spyware? Or what? 

Not much unless you have a great marketing campaign. Actually I am sure there are several sites like that already but few know about them.
"Stupid generic" people are the ones that need such info yet since they have no idea they won't bother.

For example in german there is http://hp.kairaven.de/ yet mostly people like me know it I guess.
http://michaelzimmer.org/ is mostly focused on search engines, surely worth adding to your feeds. 

PT > DE

:p 

Doom 3 source code might be released next year already according to John Carmack. At around 1:28:30 in http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/39660 

yeah I listened to that last night but forgot to post (doh). Good news indeed.

I guess Carmack is going "doh" as the doom 3 engine never really took off like ue3... 

http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=15861&start= here is the official post i did in the mapper section. i can be reached at caleb.garner@gmail.com 

Hopefully someone can take all those cute little tweaks they did for Q4 and put them in, mebbe? That would be super-cool, thx ahead. 

PWNED! 

CONCURRENCY 

new contest: release a map before i do.
go! 

now THIS is immersion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Uv-dvdsKns 

Cooooool :D 

I like it. Good lighting too - surely the D3 engine? 

even better - I'd say what you're seeing there is some serious idTech 5 action 

D3 source code next year?

That probably they are expecting RTCW2 to come out in the next 12 months, and that Prey2 will not be using the same engine as the original. 

._. 

will Prey 2 have a non-godmode option? 

._. 

 

So our community is clearly rather small and not quite so active at the moment, reflective of a social group held together by a common interest more than a place where level design is constantly ongoing. Mapping still goes on, just not to the degree that a call for everyone to try something simultaneously can elicit a strong, viable response (see: speedmapping, etc).

The recent interest in 'experimental' gameplay, especially from a couple of Speedy's maps, seem to be the freshest source of mappery right now. So, here's my idea: the "contest" is to release something on your own with whatever parameters you want, whenever, but surprise everyone else with it. Have an idea and make it - there's clearly plenty of them still out there. If we can't muster group activity at the moment, let's focus on individual maps, just to keep things fresh. 

WTF, for Quake 1 at least there have been plenty of good, varied, interesting maps this year, from new mappers, old mappers, semi-retired mappers. I've been impressed for sure.

P.S. This contest sucks. 

Shhh otherwise he'll cancel it. 

I've been impressed for sure.

Right, so why not keep it up? I'm not saying that kind of thing isn't happening, my point is the lament over speedmapping and contests seems misplaced. 

Something I was just thinking about...in most FPS engines running into the exterior corner of a wall will either make you go left or right of it depending on which side you're closest to instead of stopping you like it would if you ran into a flat wall.

I always wondered though if you lined your path up so that you hit it *exactly* at 45 degrees, how does the engine decide which way to force you? Is it randomized? Is it even possible to hit it at exactly 45 degrees? Will it actually make you stop if you accomplish it?

Has anyone ever looked into this on an engine level? Let me know :D

P.S this is what I spend my Saturdays thinking about 

the PS made that comment so awesome. 

you will never be able to hit it at exactly 45 degrees; see also: float precision

not that i checked, but aren't they shoving you right/left depending on your income angle?so that if you hit the edge in the way you described, you would almost stop? 

http://www.quaddicted.com/stuff/45.bsp
Even if you are a bit off center, I guess that's some hull stuff. 

http://www.quaddicted.com/stuff/45.bsp - there we go Lun, maps all the time! 

Yeah, you generally stop. I've tried running into walls and trying to get myself exactly parallel. I stop dead generally if I get it right. 

I've tried running into walls and trying to get myself exactly parallel.

That in Quake, or just IRL? 

So I installed windows vista x64 yesterday, and set it all up, and it was working fine, in my ignorance to the new OS instead of turning off the pc I set it into hibernate mode, then I brought it back out of hibernate the pc froze and then blue screened.

After a reset the pc would not boot, it would start loading the OS selector screen (I was dual booting with xp) but then fail saying the boot sector was screwed (or something of that description).

So I popped in my xp cd and managed to repair the boot sector, but now the pc boots automatically to XP and I get no option to boot to vista at all. I am wondering how I get the dual boot OS selector back? As the vista directory is still fully intact!

I have tried searching the web a bit but im having trouble finding information regarding this issue specifically.

PS. This is a great story for all you vista haters ;) 

nevermind :) 

something like this?

http://windowserroe6.ytmnd.com/ 

 

after some more digging around I learned that vista uses an updated method of handling the boot menus. Boot.ini simply does not work with vista.

Vista uses a BCD file to handle booting and there is handy application I found called Easybcd (http://neosmart.net/dl.php?id=1) that can edit/restore vistas boot settings and write them to the BCD.

It was a simple matter of restoring the bcd and restarting the pc :) 

No one but Richard Pryor was as good as this guy:

George Carlin mourned as a counterculture hero

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080623/D91FPBTG1.html 

patron saint of crabby old men :(



meanwhile, seen on the shack:
http://i32.tinypic.com/258ueyq.jpg 

...about this.

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/48290

I'm interested... 

 

it does mean they're working on a new radiant based on the 1.4 source... so that's kind of cool for people that didn't really like 1.5. 

""We appreciate what you guys have done over the years in building the popularity of [Quake 3]," said id CEO Todd Hollenshead. "We also like 'free.'" "

All due respect, Todd - but id likes 'free' now that the money has been made. Nothing wrong with that but let's not start painting ourselves as pure and altruistic suddenly. 

is nice. Fast. Localized. Downloaded a nice theme. I put a weather and clock widget on too. 

I hope they dont fuck them up! I played on ET - Quake Wars Demo and couldn't get it! 

nt 

nt 

Classes and team work? If Carmack likes straight up death match, it's not hard to imagine him not getting something like ET. 

imagine that.

http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzzlog/91536 

Except that nobody said they were lost. They said they were uncontacted which has a specific meaning in this situation.

There are hundreds of uncontacted tribes on the planet. 

Except that nobody said they were lost.

Except, that is exactly what was initialy claimed.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/30/brazil.conservation

"We did the overflight to show their houses, to show they are there, to show they exist," said Jose Carlos dos Reis Meirelles, an expert on uncontacted tribes at Funai. "This is very important because there are some who doubt their existence."

You certainly don't go looking for the proof of the existence of 'found' things. 

The text you quoted specifically uses the word "uncontacted" and specifically does not use the word "lost".

Anyway... 

Here's a quote from someone else I saw that sums it up decently:

"Saying it's a hoax doesn't really fit, imo. Yeah, they knew about the tribe, but the tribe is still uncontacted at this point, no? Reading up on it further, it seems like people knew about this tribe and others, but no contact really exists with them." 

what does lost in this context mean and why is it better than 'uncontacted' 

To me, 'lost' would mean that we once had them and then misplaced them while bringing in the groceries resulting in a 15 minute search the following morning before going to work and being late as a result. That's very different from 'uncontacted'. 

It isn't free, you pay with your eyeballs. 

the whole time!
Inertia:
Theyre not taking my eyeballs, I'll stick to UT3 if that's the case 

TF2 was the game that finally pulled me away from Q3 online. Quake Zero might be the game that draws me back...

I'm sick of being a team player. There is a unique joy in winning in an individualist deathmatch game.

And there is always Sauerbraten... 

Yeah, but playing in a web browser while ads dance and flash around the edges? No thanks. 

There are ad blockers and whatnot nowadays. 

the ads will be in-game, on tv screens and whatnot. 

It isn't free, you pay with your eyeballs.

Ha, that can be easily circumvented by playing with my eyes shut! 

Well that would explain Metl's legendary DM skillz then... 

Q3 was the game that irreversibly pushed me away from Q3 online... 

So we can make fun of your antiquated views again 

I don't disconnect every two minutes anymore.


I just thought I would share that update with you. 

Can anyone recommend good video editing software? I just need simple cutting, no fancy effects or anything. 

http://fixounet.free.fr/avidemux/ 

 

Advertisers are going to sign on if you can promise them space where the audience is captive - something where you can promise them lots of eyeballs. More popular TV shows = more expensive commercial slots, etc.

Now, look at games like Quake3. If there's an ad on a TV screen in the level - who's paying attention to that? Nobody's going to stop and look, and any advertiser that has this game demoed to them won't be too enthused.

In the menus and web frontend, however - or even better, while the loading bar is crawling - that's where you're going to see advertising. 

It worked pretty well in the free, ad-supported versions of Far Cry, Prince of Persia and that other game.

Maybe they're going to add TV commercial-like sound bits and advertising slogans to QuakeLive with the first patch. 

 

RL would be sponsored by Coca Cola surely?

GL seems far more Pepsi-y (I may be being influenced by Warsow's blue GL here tho) 

I'm leaving forever. 

I mean, er.... , no. please dont 

noooooo don't go, terrafusion people LOVE DICK. 

czg
please dont go, dont gooooooooo

you ass is needed!!! 

 

 

Tronyn conducted an interview with Shambler, its now posted at my site:

http://underworld.planetquake.gamespy.com/index.html 

 

But is it a two question interview? 

Next and final question plz. 

Apology REJECTED. 

I'd like to see a full map-for-map remake of the original Quake, following on from the remix maps released so far.

I have e3m1-e3m3 on final beta, e3m4-m6 on early beta and e3m7 blocked out. 

Far Cry is the game that rocked me the most in recent years too. Many players complain about the setting, but it just makes me want to get back down to the tropics with white sandy beaches and clear water for miles. Oh, St Thomas why did I ever leave (oh yeah, to avoid poverty and starvation since I would have lost my job otherwise). 

2 question interviews are copyright 1997-2008 by Scampco Industries Limited Inc. LLC. Any unauthorized usage, reproduction, or public viewing of these interviews in prohibited. 

Are you sure that's legally binding? 

it's legally banning... 

"public viewing" 

I've been thinking of some of the things you have said about the effect of piracy on the viability of the PC as a commercial game platform. It really sucks that Epic's policy is to consider PCs as a third tier market compared to the PS3 and Xbox for games that are not centered on the multiplayer mod market. Not casting dispersions. It sounds like you are facing market realities over there.

I have a question that I hope can be helpful, though it may just be naive on my part; how much can the size of a product discourage piracy? Would ten trig discourage all but the most valiant fanboi attempts?

Say, if and when Epic decides to sale GOW2 to the PC market, what if, you had a seperate DVD
that must be in the PC in order for the game to function and it was cram full of binary noise, nothing but noise, except for maybe a few thousand bytes scattered about the disk which the executable routinely searches out to insure the viability of the copy.

I recently spent an evening downloading the Knoppix disk, at 700MB I was a bit discouraged, but do you think the method I outlined would discourage the pirates? 

If the rest of it is random noise, then there is a good chacne that it could match substantial chunks of the real code. Which means that it would be possibly impossible to filter out the unnecessary bits. Plus that random noise disk is still copyable... 

have to be random, but as long as the executable knows where to look, what the filler material looks like would be unimportant. It would be futile for a hacker to separate the necessary stuff from this end. They would have to dissassemble the executable, and many barriers could be placed on that end to make that futile as well.

Of course it could still be copied, and made into an .ico file (or the dvd equivalent?), but the idea is to discourage digital distribution through raw size. Another example: Say if the size of the game could be fit on one DVD, but instead, you pad it out on
five separate DVD's with filler material and only the installer can distinguish between necessary and unnecessary data. At 8+ gigs a disk, you have over 40 gigs of data for any potential download. That would bring the bandlength of Pirate Bay to its knees!

Just trying to save the PC gaming market, for my own selfish, I wanna play a dozen Deus Ex, Quake, System Shock clones on it. that's all. 

That would bring the bandlength of Pirate Bay to its knees!

Through turrents Pirate Bay uses dispersed distribution, so that may not be a barrier in its self, though even dispersed, I imagine the size could be inhibiting to piracy. 

I'm all in favour of the opinion that goes around func routinely - that respecting end users is a better strategy than fucking them over on the off chance they want to rip off your game.

I remember a qoute for some reason - it was along the lines of anyone who tries to pirate a game and fails won'y buy it, because they never had any intention of paying for it in the first place.

Interesting idea, but I can imagine the logistical nightmare of installation - remember each game goes through many levels of idiot proof testing, and that's before it leaves the producer's office and goes to QA, legal and distribution. 

I wonder if it would make more sense as a quick and dirty solution for indies to use than the A title producers. 

Don't think so - any backed games company goes through the same process, since the money always comes from the same sorts of companies - the ones who ask;

What is a rar file? Can we put an advert frontend inside the gui? The loading screen is static apart from the moving bar for neary three seconds (we timed this!)

And indy companies aren't consolidated enough to worry about this sort of crap.

tbh I can't think of an application for it, but there almost definately is. But money = time, so to develop it is the real problem. The discs are cheap, so that's not a problem.

I've heard lots of suggestions when porting stuff from PC that we block maybe three or four features, then the "downloadable content" is basically a >128k bat file that unlocks the blocked stuff. In a similar way I think there is a corporate name for what you're suggesting, but without the extra discs.

Personally I get everything for PC from Steam, because it's me that owns the game, not the hardware, which is pretty cool. My wii I'm going to have chipped because I can't play my PAL gamecube games on it. Definately illegal, but as a good customer why should I have to cross the line.

Am I right that the only non-regional recent console is the DS - the one that's got a better turnover than free cake? 

"it was along the lines of anyone who tries to pirate a game and fails won'y buy it, because they never had any intention of paying for it in the first place. "

That's not entirely accurate. Many people will pirate the game if they can and buy it if they must.

As for the size suggestion - I'd say, personally, not really. Pirates don't care about bandwidth or storage. If they have to wait an extra day for the torrent to finish, they will. No skin off their nose. And the more likely outcome is that the crackers will simply spend the time to strip out as much of the noise as possible anyway.

And as far as GoW2 and the PC and Epics future plans - I'm sure you'll understand that I really can't make public comments on that sort of thing. Not my area and not my place. :) 

http://eu.blizzard.com/diablo3/

'nuff said 

Wow... looks impressive ! 

No, shit, damn purple penguin thing.

One of the best pieces of viral hype I've seen in a while tho (the splash screen, the hidden jpegs, etc).

http://kotaku.com/5019490/blizzard-splashwatch-+-day-three in case you live under a rock 

there goes another hundred hours or so :) 

That should of course be 'no shit', not 'no, shit' 

And as far as GoW2 and the PC and Epics future plans - I'm sure you'll understand that I really can't make public comments on that sort of thing. Not my area and not my place. :)

Especially, if those methods involve mercenaries and Pirate Bay owner's heads on stakes as a warning to other pirates, mums the word on my end ;) Anything to get a vibrant PC game market back! 

just to address your earlier post,

i'm of the firm belief that if someone wants to crack a game, it *will* be cracked.

i look at games like the HL2 series or Bioshock. HL2 games all have the online authentication stuff with the steam integration, but there are copies of all 3 (HL2, Ep1 and Orange Box) with the steam portion removed.

and bioshock. remember all the stink that was raised about it's copy protection? there was a cracked version like a week after it was released.

the way i look at it, you waste your time putting fancy piracy protection. what should be aimed for is stopping casual piracy-- lending the game to a friend so he can copy the DVD or whatever. no one ever liked having to have a cd/dvd in the drive to play, and bringing it back is not going to win any points with your consumers.

i also don't think pure online distribution is the ticket either.
in canada at least, almost all ISPs here have download caps, and that puts a real damper on how much stuff i'd want to download esp. since i'm paying for the product essentially twice. 

thought this may be of general light interest/amusement. i just sent a mate completely batshit insane by showing him the following screenshot:

http://isoterra.co.uk/images/quake00.jpg

alcohol may have have had a part to play in things but alas. i've uploaded the messenger log.. i tried to offer some serious insight later on but in reality i was pissing myself laughing most of the way through:

http://isoterra.co.uk/stuff/sandman.txt 

He doesn't play modern Q1 then?

Insomnia is sort of mild by now - some of the areas in Travail.

Poor sod probably woke up a few times in the night - judging from that transcript.

Reckon everyone who still plays / makes this game has their head a bit twisted. 

i don't think he's ever even played quake

travail did have some pretty twisted bits but i don't think anything will ever top the final level of zerstorer for pure evilness 

I reckon everyone remembers the bit where you enter the small shrine and hear the warbling idle sound of the troglodyte.

"You have a sense of pure evil" 

there's plenty, czg being responsible for quite a few and nehahra a lot of the others.

I'd have to go through my maps cd to list teh rest but there is plenty, which is why I'm still playing it :) 

 

diablo3 i already love you 

I somewhat agree with this image.

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/5916/1214677659185lz0.jpg

I wouldn't go AS far, but it does look a bit too colorful WoW compared with the dark ugliness of the old Diablos. 

I have to admit something...

I don't understand the point of Diablo. Isn't it just left click spam (I've tried playing it, I just... don't get it)

(And bear in mind I played WoW for 2 years) 

Blizzard is one of the last companies I would ever question on art direction. They have some of the most consistent and high quality artwork among game companies. Watching those D3 videos is proof of that again. Nothing looks out of place, everything looks like it fits together and you totally believe the world.

Fantastic work. 

I would have prefered a darker tone, it boils down to a matter of taste though, not poor art direction.
It'll probably change as they work on it anyways, they recently added quite a bit of grit to the Starcraft2 stuff, which makes it look alot better in my opinion. 

would be to include some sort of different post processing options like gears/ut3 so you change the overall look for default to "gritty" and so on.

Would please both crowds :) 

I'd have preferred a bit less WoW too. Hopefully the gore will make up for it. 

Does have a good bit of WoW-ness to it, which kinda sucks. Honestly I was hoping for something dingy and more detailed like Hellgate -- but that's another camp, I guess. 

Looking at the image again and thinking more on the subject, I'm starting to come around to blizzard's direction. Each area on the left side looks completely unique and memorable. On the right, the dungeon and the exterior world may as well be the same place, the effects are the only thing to draw your eyes. The left feels like a world, the right looks like a backdrop. 

I think it's because that 30 second "noise overlay" example is bad. When done by a good artist, "Gritty" can look just as unique and memorable as "Clownboots Rainbow Lollipop Land". 

I don't know why people are so against color these days. I think Diablo 3 looks fantastic. Lush, vibrant colors FTW. 

lush vibrant quake?
http://shub-hub.com/files/images/qrp000001.jpg 

Hmmm. Doesn't look as vomituously bad as most Quake visual tweaks to be honest. 

 

It's cheap and nasty.

It makes games look like those soft-focus airbrushed glamour portraits that fat insecure single women get done to post on internet matchmaking sites.

It basically says "This game has serious self-esteem issues and will eat all your chocolate biscuits when it thinks you're not looking". 

Bloom1 (like the screenshot) is rendered from the backbuffer and so is very cheap in FPS, but applied to everything - it's the most common option.

Bloom3 is applied per object and looks great. Eg. All fire shaders, but no matte shaders. Problem is it destroys framerate, usually. 

always makes an area look humid... 

Anyone interested in meeting for a coop Quake game? 

http://www.petitiononline.com/d3art/petition.html

Seems more people agree Diablo III looks too happy and shiney. 

i don't really get what the fuss about it is. to me it looks like they translated the feel of the 2d diablo art into 3d pretty well. the different areas look distinct and visually interesting. what more can you want? 

It looks fantastic. People are idiots. Besides, Blizzard is not going to go back and redo all of the art because of a petition. 

It´s from blizzard so it´ll look good. If some people don´t like the style others will. Nobody will ever hit the middleground.

There´s alot of complaining but it seems to be from people who will buy it regardless. 

The first Diablo at least had a very distinct, creepy look. This seems too close to "generic 3d fantasy rpg" (not that that is all that bad, it's just not as distinct/atmospheric).

lol @ 14560 

As far as I can tell most of the changes they want in that petition could be achieved by dropping the colour/brightness and increasing the contrast on their monitors... 

under Limited Use Licence, after the game's fifth birthday:
http://www.splashdamage.com/node/257 

There is that thing called "taste" and it is different from person to person. 

I think it's the hyperbole that gets to me. It's not "I think it's too colorful" - it's "it's fantasy elf faggot disco colored!!!1!!111!". Relax. 

Gamers.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/speedpop/gamers.jpg 

Cynicism +1 D6 

post #14573 ftw 

Also:

A SHOCKING RBEACH IN REALISM

http://www.shacknews.com/images/image-o-matic.x?/images/sshots/Screenshot/10162/10162_486bd08bda907.jpg 

It reflects exactly the fact it is not possible to please all player...
...and indeed ROFLMAO ! 

Kinn's name is short for Kinnschmerzen, which is german for "chin ache."


... NOW YOU KNOW. 

You're such a chin-head.

:P 

have you been doing some internet detective work? I haven't gone by that name since...well, since a long time.

It was my schoolboy nickname fyi :)

(Where did you find out?) 

Lunaran, in true slacker form, decided that rather than WORK today, he'd read the screenshots thread from start to finish.

http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=3&start=849 

So, I was reading this today;

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=19272

Seems somehow relevant ;p 

Look at the games they're making -- trivia games and karaoke shovelware. You can work 35 hour weeks when you're churning out shit like that. I mean if that's what you want to do as a company more power to you, but crunch is inevitable when you're making a game that strives for visual fidelity, compelling narrative, etc. etc. There's simply too much you can't plan for. 

We're crunching on Gears2. There's just too much to do at the end of the project. You have to crunch at least for a few weeks if you're going to get a product of any kind of scope completed on time.

Granted, I don't LIKE crunch - but at least we're compensated well for it at Epic. I understand that it sucks a lot more at companies where they crunch you mercilessly and then give you a hearty handshake at the end. 

Keep crunching 'til you get that PC port out, buddy ;D 

Is it worth getting for 19 eur from the bargain bin? Now that I am getting into UE3 tech a bit, I am somewhat curious about dabbling into UE3 singleplayer mapping since I've always generally found SP mapping to be more interesting than making multiplayer maps and I really loved the console GoW which I had finished before I sold my 360.

How well does the game run compared to UT3? I am playing UT3 on a C2D E6600, 2gb ram, 8600GT at 1280 x something at maxdetail and it runs pretty damn well, with only noticable slowdowns happening on DM-Deck. Should I expect the same level of perfomance from GoW PC or is it better/worse?

How big/small is the GoW editing community? I understand it wasn't that popular of a game on PC, since anyone who really really wanted to play it, had already played it on the 360, but just how popular is it? Smaller than say, Q3? Smaller than Quake? 

Game development will start resembling real industry.
Although, software industry in general should start that first. 

Yes and no. There's something about a creative process that requires an extra push at the end. It's generally what happens during that final push that makes the difference between an OK game and a great game.

As I said, I don't LIKE crunch, but I accept small amounts of it. A few months is fine. If it goes on longer than that, that's when you start hurting your product.

If games were produced completely crunch free you would very likely have an industry of cookie cutter safe games with nobody trying to push limits lest they overshoot the schedule. 

And I know the obvious snarky comment is coming regarding cookie cutter safe games but believe me ... things would be FAR worse if, say, we had unions that made sure nobody crunched or worked over time. 

Why do you think crunch is required to produce a great envelope-pushing game? 

"things would be FAR worse if, say, we had unions that made sure nobody crunched or worked over time"

Or maybe, just maybe, game companies would have to start hiring managers capable of doing their job. 

. . . would have to start hiring managers capable of doing their job

That's it, for me. A manager who actually knows how his company works.

I reckon most games are able to be made with very small crunch times - less than a month - but with bad communication and stupid planning crunch becomes a necessity. All too often some tosser in management hands down a decree that's taken as gospel, when it turns out it was an idea he had over his morning coffee and he's never worked in dev.

Then months later when the team is struggling with Multiplayer and Physics, that unfeasible idea has been agreed to and set in stone, and must be addressed.

Which hurts morale and leads to the team sitting around chatting, playing stupid flash games and not being very productive. 

"Crunch" is a synonym for "extra effort and working more than you are scheduled for". It doesn't have to happen at the end of the project but can happen many times along the way.

Any creative endeavor takes iteration and iteration takes time. Thinking that you can plan every single detail ahead of time is to be naive about the process.

Often times, things need to change. What you planned to do turns out to not be fun or it needs revisions or something new needs to be done instead. That's the sort of thing that throws a carefully laid schedule out the window.

Look, I'm not arguing FOR crunch. Do I want to be sitting here on July 4th hooking up shit in my level? No, but I'm here just the same. The work needs to get done. 

What exactly is so special about the game development process that warrants crunch? There are fucktons of other fields of work which involve long creativity-based projects (movies come to mind) where somehow, people manage to do without. 

I well realise that some crunch is present in the movie-making industry, but not on a scale anywhere close to that of game development, where having crunch periods is more of a rule, rather than exception. 

To do with the type of people that tend to work in games than, say, movies - I think.

There's always more to do - and nobody wants the final result to not be up to their own standards. 

software industry and games industry especially have lots of young people who don't have families or enough knowledge or self confidence to demand better so they go with the crunch culture.

Of course, it's not easy to avoid "crunches" from the top down either. You get delays and cancellations. You have to have a lot of slack in the time tables and still tolerate them going over. 

Uh, crunch in movies is probably just as bad as in games, for CG anyways. Pulling all nighters, and sleeping 5 minutes with an alarm clock while a test frame renders isn't so uncommon in post-processing jobs (post-processing is always the worst obviously since it's at the end of the chain).

I don't think crunch is in any way necessary, but yeah it's unfortunatly really hard to avoid, even with good management. 

"software industry and games industry especially have lots of young people who don't have families or enough knowledge or self confidence to demand better so they go with the crunch culture."

This is, again, somewhat naive. I mean, sure, you can say, "Yeah just stand up and leave." But when the project is over and they can afford to replace you with any one of the 1000s of people lined up outside the office - they will. That's not a threat and I'm not saying that to be mean, but it's the truth.

At the same time, there needs to be something at the end of the crunch for the employee. At Epic, we have an amazing profit sharing plan and that more than covers my pain and suffering. But at most companies, crunch is a pretty raw deal because generally at the end - you get laid off or the company closes or whatever. It's a harsh industry if you're not employed at one of the top players. 

There's something about a creative process that requires an extra push at the end.
That's the sort of thing that throws a carefully laid schedule out the window.

Seems to me, extra time needed is pretty predictable and easy to plan for. You just have to live with the fact that you can't account what you use that time for yet. Isn't there this rule: "take what the programmer says how long it takes, double it, and make it use the next larger unit" ? ;) 

in terms of performance it runs a lot faster than ut3, my guess is its less visually complex from its 360 origins, so I would not worry about performance.

The added single player segments are nice too :)

Single player co-op is great fun but you need games for windows live from microshaft to able to play online, and you guessed it. games for windows live BLOWS ASS CHUNKS :) 

Yes, it can be read as naive since it's a very short and simplified description of one hand of the whole affair.

It's one of those things where the whole unions, strikes, worker safety and an eight hour five day work week and communism started, ie that you can't just grab the next guy off the street.

Besides, in more complex jobs, people are actually worth something and it takes quite a lot of time to bring new guys up to speed. Not that management would often understand that though. 

Is really cool, was so thrilled when it finally came out and I didn't have to get a 360 to play it. I know the gameplay is repetitive, but the immersion is high, and the variances in setting are neat, as well as the whole group vibe. And I bust out laughing nearly every time Dom says "NICE!" 

Doms best line: 'sup bitches! 

aguire quake? 

got it, I thought it was different to regular glquake like in fitz.

But, what about half life 1? is there a vsync command there? 

you could set fps_max to your refreshrate, dunno about v-sync (except in vid card options under windows). 

this seems to be totally not-backed up bullshit: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3621/fewer_mechanics_better_game.php 

They print a lot of shite. 

... some people still wonder why Wii is outselling both 360 and PS3 combined. 

John Rose. 

I'm glad I spawned this whole discussion but I was waiting for maps to render and it was the day before a day off and the office was half empty and my CPUs were maxed and there wasn't a spare machine to do it on and I was just exceedingly bored. 

I sort of agree with his main point, but yeah, not well written. Oh well. 

I've worked no higher than manual labourer /item librarian/loader/clerk/assurer and I will tell you it is fucking chronic that management knows nothing about actual production.

By all means, the highest boss of production will know everything about production, will be reasonable, and cool, and intelligent (and have no percentage btw)... but higher than that, reasonability will not exist. Highest boss of production will himself flip off those higher than him (I've admired no one more in my life than seeing this), and it SHALT BE CALLED FOR.

Fatass White God, if ye have any mercy, give me a big fat scholarship next year so I don't have to go back...

In fact we all know (as foremen do) that the highest guy pays a slightly higher percentage if you can screw the guy below you. That is business. I understand how fair and intelligible it is. But I'm not in for 100 years of it. This whole percentages thing is not what I am in for. 

millions of people looking through a glass window at a massive banquet and ball where everyone's beautiful and rich, pounding on the glass wanting in, and thousands of people on the other side doing exactly the same thing. 

fuck you talking about? I'm beautiful and rich. 

no way y´re fat ugly and poor 

You're also impaled on a pitchfork in a well known picture. 

Fishy, but not quite fish.

Though you are golden as well. 

"percentage" -- what do you mean? 

Is this your company:

http://www.hotfroguk.co.uk/Companies/Terrafusion-Picture-Framing 

shambler's email is corrupted its only adress is Transalvania,
where it managed to set the church on fire. 

I'm sure this has been brought up back in 1999 or something, but since I wasn't around, I have to ask again...

Let's say I have a mod based on Quake2/CTF/mission pack code. Somehow the license has been lost or there was never one included etc. To really complicate it, I've taken a few bits from other mods which by now are (rightly or wrongly) under the GPL.

Now I'd like to do The Right Thing (TM) and reinclude a license in the next release. Which one?

Is my "Modified copy" still covered by the id license? Or was that just for the "authorized copy"? I have some problems with this lawyer-speak...

I know nobody will probably care, I'd just like to get this off the list... and if no license applies anymore, I'd choose GPL...

*scratches head* 

That is very similar to my own conundrum concerning releasing some content ;). I don't have an easy answer, and in my case, I'm just creating code that is compatible with pre-GPL released sources in functionality while trying to avoid copying the methods used. 

*nods*

The GPL code is pretty general... it's practically only modified pre-GPL code... it's probably contained in several mods under several licenses, where one copied from the other... then someone put the GPL stamp on it, which is, well, nice, but questionable (I think.)

Parts are also "public domain" as per hearsay from people who knew someone who knew the mod author... *g* It's pretty weird.

Perhaps a mail to Todd Hollenshead or something?

I just don't fully understand the original id license (CTF/Xatrix etc license.) It's not very clear about the status of "modified copies" and copies thereof (and copies of... well you get the point...)

bleh. :-/ 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixb6EU1QSIE 

I just mean the amount they personally make is related to how much the company makes overall. Yeah they get a flat rate, but there's commission/bonuses/etc on top of that. All the way up to the foreman where I worked none of that applied, the foreman could (and did) make a shitload doing overtime, but overtime is just another flat rate, it isn't related to how much of a killing the company as a whole is making. What was a particular pain in the ass was being expected to squeeze more work into the same amount of hours, without getting paid any more, because people with commission were setting it up that way. Overtime is a good way to make money, but people with commission never even work overtime. Anyway, maybe with two useless degrees instead of one I'll be able to get something better next time, lol. 

Ah, I see -- are you talking about stock? Also, I suggest joining a labor union in the area! 

Is the PS3 version of UT3 any good? I enjoy mapping for UT3 on my PC, but for the past months I've been drifting more and more towards gaming just on my PS3. I know that UT3 PS3 supports custom content so I could even playtest my maps on it if I wanted to. So the question is, is the PS3 version of the game actually good? 

Jago

If you like shooters on consoles, it's good. I liked it a lot and I know it's gotten great reviews.

I dunno, I think the 360 version is probably superior but I only say that because I like the 360 controller more. In terms of the game itself, they're basically identical in terms of feel. 

http://www.dawnofwar2.com/us/home

It has one of those frustrating age gates, which I have to scroll downwards through a little more every year, how depressing!

Game looks nice tho! 

I always choose 1900 as a "fuck you" the whole inane process. 

The default way really... 

How does the control system work with the complexity of UT3 on console?

I normally play CoD4 on the consoles due (in part) to the 'simplicity' (I believe this is also part of the incomprehendable success of the Halo series). I'm not condoning the doctrine that complexity in games is a bad thing, but I'm not sure how scrolling through a dozen weapons with different fire modes on a pad would work in a fast fps... 

And I always choose my actual birthdate, it's just too cool not to 

The weapon switching is pretty smooth once you get used to it - we use a pop-up wheel approach. Once you know where the weapons are on it (they don't move and have static slots), it's easy.

"And I always choose my actual birthdate, it's just too cool not to"

I guess I'll just move this along then since it seems to be stuck ... Hey, what's your birth date?! 

Mark Wahlberg is a reasonably decent choice for Max Payne, and the movie doesn't look all that bad for a slow-mo shoot em up. They even have cool angels pulling Mr. Payne during some of his more acrobatic jumping sequences, which I think is a nice touch and quite refreshing. Trailer @ shacknews.com, possibly others. 

Mark Wahlberg.

"omg, something is HAPPENING!"

He might be a decent action movie guy, actually come to think of it it's not his fault he was cast in yet another pretentious, preachy, artsy, condescending shamylan flick.

Anyone read "What if Michael Bay had written The Dark Knight" btw, on the subject of mocking directors? What's hilarious is how little of an exaggeration that actually was. 

yeah, i read that "rejected michael bay batman script" thing. funny. 

isn't directing that movie! 

that would be a perfect max payne. 

 

but too British for Max, I haven't seen him pull off an American role the way Bale or Hugh Laurie (who uses an interesting mix of prep school and Mid-Atlantic in his accent for House). Max Payne is a young Mickey Rourke, but unfortunately no time machines exist, so I guess Wahlberg is a fine substitute.

Mila Kunis as Mona Sax? Drop dead Gorgeous face, but lacks the long legs and husky voice necessary for the roll. She is in her mid to late twenties now, so maybe she can adjust that voice (think Meg on Family Guy if you are not familiar with her) to pull it off and she would have to wear stilettos for a femme fatale roll, anyway. 

Sniper, he starts of as a Sniper and his partner (sniper) gets killed in Iraq and he just gets out, then they try to fram him for an assasination attempt!

Good movie, very 80's action flick 

was in The Departed and Boogie Nights

I believe in miracles, woo hoo! . .  

you're thinking of Shooter 

that was bugging the hell out of me! 

we miss you in tf :( 

Thought I'd share a slightly improved version of the Classic theme for Windows XP and Vista with the rest of you as I think it's a lot more pleasing to the eye:

Screenshot: http://jago.pp.fi/misc/klassik/klassik.jpg
Download: http://jago.pp.fi/misc/klassik/klassik06_v1.zip

Installation:
Unzip the archive, move the *.ttf files into C:\Windows\Fonts and the *.theme files into C:\Windows\Resources\Themes Double-click on one of the *.theme files (the screenshot shows the Calibri version) and accept the change. The only difference between the 2 files is the font being used. 

look nice 

They should've gone with Sam Lake as Max Payne. 

Okay, so if you don't want to release all of the quoth2 source, that's fine.

Could you at least release world.qc, trigger.qc, you know, all the stuff with the really handy utilitarian mapper assists / model saving coolness / etc that doesn't involve quoth content? They're awesome, but other mappers who want to use them for their own mod being forced to reinvent all those wheels is a little stupid. 

hi

what is aglquake and where download? (gogle dont know)

just played supercoop+e1m1rmx+skill3
ilike 

click on the "people" tab at the top of the screen. Then click on "AguirRe". Then click on his homepage. There is loads of cool stuff there including "modified GlQuake for mappers". Thats is AGlQuake!!!

Enjoy! 

i cant find "AguirRe" in peoples .(( 

"This is the homepage of Bengt Jardrup"
it is it? 

Yeah - Bengt Yardrup - that's the one.

AguirRe - Have you been inactive on func for thelast 30 days?!??!

His name is normally at the top of that list. 

You left irc like a little wanker; I wanted to tell you that I really enjoyed that link :* 

I needed sleep. And I did not wank! 

You've heard of elder things but have you encountered ... elder thongs?

http://www.cthulhulives.org/store/store.lasso?1=product&2=32780 

Everyone loves zombies, right?

http://wantonhubris.com/blog/2008/07/13/zombie-garden/

Our garden is now complete. 

 

zombies do sound like a head of cabbage being chopped in half when they gib, so maybe growing a few in the garden is not a bad idea. 

Is fucking amazing 

to Bal, Mad Fox, JPL, and anyone else from the Gaul. 

What ?? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis_Court_Oath 

...deus, I think you thumped your head somewhere....

https://homedrive.home.nl/gimli/publiek/deus.jpg 

OK, I see, I didn't capture the historical reference there ;) 

JPL, my first version was Happy Off With Their Heads Day, but I thought a more direct reference to Bastille would be less obscure! 

...carrots don't seem to be franchise...

and I ain't even frenche, you chauvenist! 

 

CharlesVII, who burnt the poor child after she had returned his crown without lending her a hand.

or Charles, who conceiled the Army of Foreigners lending them all a chance to cover up their past 

don't forget to add Antoine de Saint Exupéry to your list. 

agreed, thats would good choice 

JPL, my first version was Happy Off With Their Heads Day, but I thought a more direct reference to Bastille would be less obscure!

Indeed... BTW, excuse accepted, no problem ;) 

do you guys think of this?

http://www.ador-digital.de/cubec_game/robo_2_4.jpg

? 

I am indifferent without a context with which to think of it. 

is it not meant to be a useful robot? 

without being able to hear the voice....

seriously it looks like part male part female!!! 

Looks a bit stiff and inflexible. 

Does someone have the mentioned CD:
http://innergroove33.8m.com/quake1.htm ? 

They look a bit, er...... 

But I do have a coat made from rusty barbed wire you can wear. 

There's archiving dedication and then theres collecting stuff like that.

Only available on cd? Damn. 

http://lunaran.com/pics/fudgetopic.gif 

http://innergroove33.8m.com/dark09.jpg 

good to see TF still going strong :) 

http://innergroove33.8m.com/skymaze.jpg

Yes. 

They're running another Q2DM mapping contest at the Q2Cafe some time in August: http://leray.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=6thmappingcontest
Too bad it's focused on DM. Would be nice if they combined it with the QExpo, though I doubt they even know about it. 

lol people keep playing Q2DM? roulffff...

ZzZzZzzZzzzzzzz 

lol people keep playing [^q](.*)?DM? roulffff...

ZzZzZzzZzzzzzzz 

How do you usually cope with different levels of perfectionism in the art dept.?

ATM i have this weird situtation, where:
0) it's a freetime project with no roles/responsibilities defined
1) i'm the only guy who ever did anytyhing game related art-wise
2) we have a modeler who's surprisingly good at things he never did before, but still 'has potential' as i see it
3) me saying 'hey tweak it there, and here' (design things)
4) some other guy (who already didn't agree with the one art decision we made) arguing against virtually every single thing i say 'could be worked upon' to. At first he complained about stylistic things, now he complains that i want too much, that we don't have the ressources to be any better and that we should get it over with and start the next model, so we at least have a few.

There's no deadline involved, and our first model took about a day or so of time for the modeler, total time about a week max, which i found surprisingly fast.

What do i do? That other guy just thinks 'it's good enough', while i think 'could be better' - and i'm tired of arguing against him. All the other guys didn't give their opinion on things. My view is that we need to perfect the first model as much as we can (within reasonable time & ressources) to nail down the style and skill level, so all the next models aren't wasted at the end.

What makes this a bit complicated is that the model is more a fit to the other guys views than to what we laid down, so he naturally thinks of it better as it is. I told him to recreate a discussion about design style guides if he's unsatisfied with the current one or otherwise try to hold his opinion back and just take the guide as a basis for criticism, but that just lead to a disasterous argument just now ;) 

It sounds like you don't have a project leader who has the authority to make decisions. Design by comittee rarely works out in then long run. I say decide on someone to be the leader or suffer more of this in the future. :) 

megaman :) is becouse Q2DM is so so very slow :\

i play 2 or 3 times and got bored real fast 

Everything was fine until #4. Someone has to be able to lay down the law. seeing as it's a freetime project this will probably piss off dude #4 who will leave, so be ready for that. has he contributed anything besides a contrary attitude? 

in any team. And "players" must have the gift of humility. And ultimately trust the nazi.

I mean in any artistic team-based project there has to be one guy who is able to make descisions/talk down to people. Although that figure must be able to be reasonable too..... 

what an awesome life lesson, "Somebody has to be the Nazi." 

Logically then, someone else has to be the Jew. 

some days you're the nazi, some days you're the jew 

it's sad, but atm it looks like we need hierarchy. Establishing a leader now will be very difficult though...

No, the other guy hasn't really contributed much, so that won't be that much of a problem.

More opinions, experiences, advice, etc. appreciated. 

No man or woman is worth your tears,and the one who is ,won't make you cry.
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http://pjw.planetquake.gamespy.com/grafix/fail.jpg 

HeadThump* erases the two thousand words of advice on love and trust he wrote over the last hour that he was about to give to yet another spambot.

* not a reliable gauge on Turing Test matters. 

spambots are attracted to aphorisms 

<3 

http://www.lunaran.com/madfox.txt


seriously wtf 

that Adam Foster has been hied by Valve. That's pretty cool, his HL stuff was quite impressive and from the sounds of it, so was his HL2 episode. 

That first 20+ set of maps he did had an extreme randomness to it and also given his constant use of rhyme back in '04, at the time, I considered the possibility, MadFox was some university student's sociological experiment using a mod niche as test subjects. But then his mapping improved, and he would break character to call me a Butthead every time I pissed him off, so I dismissed the idea. Also, when I play tested a level last year for him, the exchanges were fairly intelligible, so I don't know. 

http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=1&start=5668&end=5668 

This entire idea is awesome

someone should make a speedmapping contest, of "What MADFOX makes upon becoming self-aware." 

I dont like to stress the fact that madfox rocks, but he jus does,So, for all you staff users out there, feel free to come in and post, my staff is a good one, but here is how it goes

1. post message in the room
2. LOOK IT OVER
3. dont report anything, i might get in trouble :)
and 4. Have fun!!! 

Part of the reason I never got into advanced philosphy. 

But then his mapping improved, and he would break character to call me a Butthead every time I pissed him off, so I dismissed the idea.

I told you guys, the AI is learning. 

http://www.video4all.nl/src/win_video.php?cid=AOX8RSL97T1lgFjxwCcpz

I think this video of his must hold at least a few keys. 

that was one trippy irc log.

out of interest i tried running the content of the last 100 posts of GA through a mark v shaney generator, some of the results:

- Does someone have the ressources to be the leader or suffer more of this in the garden is not a reliable gauge on Turing Test matters.
- spambots are attracted to aphorisms <3 http://www.lunaran.com/madfox.txt seriously wtf that Adam Foster has been brought up back in '04, at the time, I considered the possibility, MadFox was some university student's sociological experiment using a mod niche as test subjects.
- But then his mapping improved, and he would break character to call me a Butthead every time I pissed him off, so I could even playtest my maps on it if I wanted to.
- His name is normally at the top of the game itself, they're basically identical in terms of feel.
- http://www.dawnofwar2.com/us/home It has one of the quoth2 source, that's fine.
- Could you at least a few bits from other mods which by now are (rightly or wrongly) under the GPL.
- Now I'd like to stress the fact that madfox rocks, but he jus does,So, for all you staff users out there, feel free to come in and post, my staff is a fine substitute. 

#1407 lunaran > that's not me! My use of language is much poor than that balsh! The stupid nonsense I'm supposed to use there should make you think why there aren't that much misspells...sorry...nicked.

#14709 headthump > I may be food for psygoligists...reason I never consult one.
You're not a buthead, I just have enormous guilts understanding you americans (?!).

#14710 lurker > you're right! lol for me and everyone with an creative mind and how to get along with it. I establish the link to virtual pizza's!

#14712 necros > still thanks for your qc help with my rat model, I'm much further now!

#14713 neg!ke > it is not so much as philosopy,
(Plato's dialogs are terrific!) as well that I hate numbers and pronounciation marks in reading text.

#14714 lunaran > part of me is crazy, but youre nick is lune-a-ran.

#141715 bear > thanks, you may now go on watching the radiotube for more of edison's treasures... at least you could have givven me a vote.

#14714 rj > so again, that's not me, but you can use my babbelfish for text generators.

#14717 madfox > cool down, man. take my easytune I lately made...
http://members.home.nl/gimli/SHOTS03.MID
set speaker low. 

to a hilarious debate!

Madfox, you could have trailed a few more breadcrumbs, it was just getting interesting! :) 

I still think he's a computer! 

in doom3, the files in the glprogs folder (with the *.vfp extension)... are those shaders like cg or hlsl? 

Did you write "Python Programming on Win32"? 

As Bobby Fischer once said, 'I don't believe in psychology, I believe in good moves.'

But then again, he was certifiably nuts. 

who ran luna?

roughly it takes 3years and 3 months to walk to the moon at an average speed of 8km/houre.

still it won't stop the average turnspeed of earth, which is 15meters/second when standing still. 

No, that was Mark Hammond. 

assembly. cg and hlsl both get compiled into asm vertex/fragment progs. 

for the info :) 

I tinkered with the doom lighting vfp and found that light color is supplied as a vec4, with alpha, and alpha isn't regarded at all. So I tinkered more and turned shaderparm3 on lights (alpha) into a diffuse-ness measure that scales/biases the shading dot product to 'fill' lighting on surfaces a bit more. It looks really sweem using doom3's original sharp lighting for a keylight, and this fuzzy light for a bounced fill. 

screens or it didn't happen 

I guess it didn't happen 

I found this but it doesn't show it off too well

http://www.lunaran.com/pics/byz_brighthall1.jpg 

Really neat, Lun. 

Lun created an alternative to fullbright.

Weekend well spent. 

Zwiffle.

I'd be interested what you did though, care to post the shader? 

I carried it a little further, and started putting ambient occlusion maps in the alpha of the diffuse (and if I wanted an alphamasked texture I'd use alpha in the normal map or somwot instead), and multiplying that into the result by an inverse proportion, so that the direct light looks direct and the diffuse light looks diffuse, and halfway values look good too.

http://www.lunaran.com/files/byz_shadiness.pk4 [12 mega-bytes]

Including some of those textures in the pak. I had planned on doing the whole ship with just a couple of big utility textures so I could have brushwork all over that would share a material and thus batch really well, so I wouldn't have to be so stingy with lights. Then there were dirty engineering versions and clean upper-level versions to unify the look of the ship and ... ahh, Byzantine. I wish I knew how to finish you. 

I dont understand a thing you just said, but it sounds like it will melt eyes... ;) 

(shame) 

But supertrim and superpanels are missing their localmaps? 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2XCYgrKFWC4&feature=related possibly a slight bit nws 

are they?

Oh, damn, I know what I did. I'll update the file when I get home.

also, scampie figured out the correct solution to our game in #tf from earlier: the United Nations International Bureau of Really Oversized Weapons. 

Do you know UT3 (pc) supports voice chat? Me and the guys have been using vent, but it's kinda annoying. 

Just throwing it out there, anyone ever make a Quake mod in isotropic perspective for a Quake tactics kind of game? 

file updated. enjoy the fru-its of my labours! 

Cheers. 

Welcome to the party!:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000303112411/http://games.terrafusion.com/qboard/thread.asp?show=0&threadid=2

Mod help thread:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000418210137/games.terrafusion.com/qboard/thread.asp?show=0&threadid=227

Anti-cheesy mappers of the world unite!:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000119191451/http://games.terrafusion.com/qboard/thread.asp?show=114&threadid=157

Ripped maps and copywright:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000419203813/games.terrafusion.com/qboard/thread.asp?show=36&threadid=229

No words design:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000120004407/http://games.terrafusion.com/qboard/thread.asp?show=17&threadid=180

Top ten lists suck:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000419082405/games.terrafusion.com/qboard/thread.asp?show=160&threadid=222

The Agency:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000303220318/http://games.terrafusion.com/qboard/thread.asp?show=84&threadid=138

The map tracker:
http://web.archive.org/web/19991127210830/http://games.terrafusion.com/qboard/tracker.asp
http://web.archive.org/web/20000304025955/http://games.terrafusion.com/qboard/tracker.asp

func's pale yellows and beiges are so ugly compared to qboard. 

Func's colors at least vaguely hint at Quake, whereas Qboard looks more like Deus Ex. Go figure. 

http://qexpo2005.quakedev.com/booths.php?tag=krimzon
Kinda frozen and not a tactics game though. 

but is there some setting i dont have right in q3? Textures in certain maps appear to be splotchy, like pjw3dm5 and unitooldm6 (a cel shaded map). It's where there's shadows cast from the lightmaps I think. 

great idea, eh Metl ;) 

Wasn't there a mod by Harbinger of Fish that had an isometric view and lots of RTS elements? 

i like the cut of your gib, good sire.

i guess this new thing would improve the sort of lighting you can do in outdoor areas? 

I was thinking about the phrase "I like the cut of your gib" over and over today for some reason. Couldn't get it out of my head. I became obsessed with it. Now I guess I know why.

*Marcher Fortress 2, Marcher Fortress 2, Marcher Fortress 2...* 

:(
...
...








...
^_~ 

Wow those Qboard pages bring back memories. Forgotten about so many of those guys, like seth and c0ld. Miss 'em, and of course Headshot and Mr. Clean and the rest. Good times =D 

Greatly.

My plan was to combine it with custom-painted light-projection images for pretty much every room, like I did in Strombine.

If you knock me up a neat outdoor area I'll light it, howsat? 

Maps I Made doesn't work :( 

Also;

1) lawl. Zan.

2) The no words design thread is surprisingly precient 

Dagnammit. I can't read input box titles.

Sorry for the triple post :( 

Now post that in the mapping help thread with a description and maybe a screenshot and somebody will probably help you fix it.

Or smoke some chronic, maybe watch tv for a while. 

I just looked through the Shub-Hub logs and noticed
http://www.reddit.com/comments/6ssng/Quakeopoly_pic/

7705 hits so far. 

cool! :D

(also im getting my popcorn ready) 

Awesome

If you knock me up a neat outdoor area I'll light it, howsat?

I would say that's an offer I can't refuse :) I'll definately have something ready at some point for my D3 "Tharsis" project - can't give an ETA right now though :{ 

cool 

quick! quickly! 

computer are shit.

My computer overheated (by the looks of things) the other day and now some important element (either the cpu or gpu) seems to be completely fucked. Actually, I've no idea what really happened, but the damn thing has always run ridiculously hot and it's currently the middle of a hot summer in Japan so I'm assuming it overheated. Basically I was just browsing the web and suddenly the screen went corrupt so I turned it off and left it. The next day I tried to use it and it made some normal sounding noises but it never seemed to start up. The hdd light was flashing and the fans were on, but the monitor never displayed an image.

It's a 3 year old dell xps2 with a pentium-m 2ghz and nvidia gf6800 go ultra. Still a reasonable machine that I could use for what I need if it hadn't just bust. SO glad I didn't burn money on the 3 year extended warranty, as it would have just expired :)

Anyway, if anyone knows what the problem might be or has had any previous experience with this kind of crap, please help. I haven't yet tried calling dell customer service because it's expensive and I can't use skype anymore. Pretty sure there is no email helpline, but I'll have a look. 

I've had the same problem with my Dell on and off for almost a year now. I would get decent performance for a few weeks and then I out of nowhere the screen would start blinking, and then it would either freeze up or give a Blue Screen of Death warning (Paged in unpaged area, IRQ conflict with video driver). However, I have good reason to believe the problem has been solved. I cashed in a favor my bro owed me, and got him to work on it.

He found the power supply box to be barely adequate for the requirements of the machine. A small slip in its performance would be enough to effect the stability of the machine.

He replaced the box; unfortunately, Dells boxes are slightly non standard. There is no slot in the outer plate for the (0 -) button that is standard with boxes that come off the shelf. So it's necessary to keep the machine open, with the power supply outside of it.

Last winter I had to give up on my Radeon AGP 9700 because the computer simply would not run with it installed, but now I have reinstalled
it with no performance problems, testing it with Far Cry, Fear, Doom III and Quake IV.

Before the power supply replacement, I used an old Geforce 4 MX PCI card and I didn't even dare to run Quake III with it because of the certitude it would cause a lock up.

I hope the problem you are having is as simple a fix as this. I chased down a number of possibilities, but the instable power supply was causing false flags to be spat out. 

GPU => Power Supply => Motherboard => CPU.

In that particular order, are the most likely causes of your problem. These days, you have to try really really hard to actually fry a CPU before it manages to autoshutdown. 

bolt cutters would fix that right up! 

I had a similar situation and managed to work out it was the GPU.

If you have onboard video, try disabling video card and see if the MB video loads up? 

"a 3 year old dell xps2 with a pentium-m 2ghz and nvidia gf6800"

Instead of troubleshooting (unless you are lucky and get the problem nailed down fast), I would just go and buy a new PC. 600 euros will easily get you a PC twice as fast as your current one (assuming you hand-pick components instead of buying outrageously overpriced brand PCs). 

http://www.pcoption.co.uk/

These guys are the guys I got mine from. Which was problematic, but they did eventually deliver. I only bring this up because they really do offer fantastic value for money!!

On another note, I hear thay the new ATI card is the dogs bollocks, the 4870 I think?

Supposed to be on par with the new NVidia GTX260 (or was it even the 280!?) but for a lot less money INDEED. As in they now will own the market share... 

I'm getting horrible input lag in fitzquake/winquake/glquake which makes them all unusable. The lag time varies but can be up to a second or more. This is on a laptop running windows XP that didn't use to have this problem in the past, using "-dinput" makes no difference.

SDLfitzquake and ezquake works fine so I at least can play quake but with a limited engine choice.

Any ideas to what might cause this? 

a little far fetched, but have you tried disabling any antivirus software you have running in the background and checking whether that makes any difference? 

If you're on Windows, try using -dinput or its equivalent in NQ engines. The D stands for Direct, I think it's a Microsoft thing. 

Me has un brain farte. 

https://visualvm.dev.java.net/docindex.html

I thought this style of documentation was windows help (nobody uses, ever) only :(

They only describe the GUI, not what the application is actually doing. 

It's a notebook pc so there wasn't really any self-build option around and the dell seemed like the most affordable machine of the spec I wanted at the time. If I get a desktop or mini-desktop, I'll probably just build it myself.

Anyway, I can't get into Windows to disable any AV software and I'm 100% sure AVG is not causing the problem. The machine turns on, the monitor backlight turns on with it, the HDD whirs, no bios beep errors occur, the HDD seems to work as normal, but after a few seconds the monitor backlight turns off as if there is no signal whilst HDD activity continues as if it were botting. I unplugged the HDD to see if it would make any beep when I booted and there were two beeps. I think the gpu is borked, though whether it overheated I don't know - the max operating temperature of the machine is a pathetic 35C so I don't have any trouble believing overheating could have caused the problem since it's consistently about 35C at the moment outside and the machine has always run ridiculously hot.

I've sent a mail off to dell customer support, but I have a strong feeling they are going to be completely useless bastards. 

Can we please all stay honest, bad mouthed and unfiltered? The 'wow, that's great' attitude Ricky and some others are spreading sucks. Read q3w or d3w for a while to see why.

I want honest people. This is about the only place where most people care enough to complain. If i'm shitmouthed every time i'm honest, i will stop being honest and lie to you how great your stuff is. 

getting 

somebody has to be the nazi

fuck you megaman you suck there see happy now i've told you so? feel obliged to master yourself? do you feel your creative output is ready to be expanded, innovated?

you seem very sinical. do you have a miserable time? maybe just a rough lifestyle. full of pure grit and an omniscient ressiliance to lifes labours.

who am I to say. just out of curiousity though, what is this "q3w" and "d3w" of which you speak? forgive me but I'm unfamiliar with your shorthand. it might help your case a little if you perhaps relay some sort of example of this evidence of which you speak

If i'm shitmouthed every time i'm honest

if you take "artistic journalistic libertys" everytime you're honest, at someones expense.
it should be possible to be honest without causing an argument, or I bid thee rise above it 

I like you but would you calm the fuck down already 

Love?

"Ricky I like you but"

love is in the air

la la la la

love is in the air

la la la la

roulfffff

and ricky say to me rocket in arse? :) hehe 

need to go back to being retired 

true i´m getting real old :( 

You're too pissy
You're not pissy enough
You're too nice
You're not nice enough

It's like a soap opera cycle of prima donna bullshit. 

I'm starting loving you all....ready?

I was watching a docu about Spartacus and how he honourfull tried to lead the slaves against the Romans, but as he had no clear politics he had to loose it afterall. Saw him die his tragic death and the Romans sculptured their way to Rome with scornfull crosses with tortued slaves.

Then I went to bad and had tis strange dream.
I was in the land of Quake with some of my best friends. In some strange way I knew, although I was dreaming, that it couldn't be real... the land of Quake...hah! So I told my friends they don't had to be serious with the craetures they would met.
And as example I went to the first one I met. someone that looked like an army officer and the look-a-likes of carmack, took a big stone from the ground and started beating it on his head. To my surprise his head became like a bublegum, clunching up all sides and slowly I lost the fun in doing so. Then I saw my friends getting killed and I really got scared, because I was the one who told them not to be frightened.
Suddenly another army agent came up to me with a big stone aiming to my head, and the only thing I could feel was his groaning question:

Hé farmerboy, have you seen that armyofficer?

which I know is an old greece parabel about te god Mercurious trying to see how faithfull the
slave would be. 

madfox saved the thread. 

Never change. 

no one's going to top that... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d-tNXxTRBA 

more delicious food for MadFoxBot

:) 

About 17.6 different types of awesome. 

Genius, grim genius.

They should show that on children's TV. 

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=203569

Apparently I was wrong and the ads WILL be in game on giant billboards. Carmack states that Q3A suits giant ads in-game just fine because Quake's got a very tournamenty gamey feel anyway.

which also doesn't suit my style of design at all, so, I guess I won't be revisiting any of my old maps or making any new ones for Quake Live. 

I haven't rtfa yet, but doesn't that pretty much mean that custom maps won't be possible? =\
Yeah I'm seriously dissapointed about this. 

I imagine they would be possible, just have a criteria that X amount of adverts at X variety of sizes must be placed prominently in a map. Maybe it's too hard to enforce so they won't allow custom content but in theory the criteria is pretty easy and mappers could easily incorporate them....and I think it would be fair to accept the need to include ads...

I also agree with Carmack's reasoning about a very tourney game and exactly the same thing would apply to UTX for example. 

A fair point, and could be integrated well so not to intrude on gameplay.

The real problem is the back and forth pissing about that it'll almost certainly create - advertiser X doesn't think that their jpg is shown enough because it's dark and so is the lighting, or it's a shade of grey and becomes washed out. Or its a 1000x2 texture and becomes warped etc. etc.

Which adds guff to development time, taking away from what the designers are able to put into the game itself. Probably negligible, but even so. 

That isn't an easy solution at all, I doubt any developer would consider that.

I don't like ads in tourney games, even if they try to make them fit with the setting etc, it won't stop me from playing a game if it's good though. But with this, I'm just worried it means NO to custom maps, they pretty much said mods would not be possible, and to them, custom maps = mods probably. 

I did read somewhere that "fresh off the compiler" maps wont be possible in live, but id will be releasing regular map packs (im guessing they will use community maps but set rules like x billboards etc).

Because its an ad-supported game, what if everyone just played the good custom maps with no billboards? Epic fail :)

Im also pretty sure that there will be standards for the ads themselves, im sure they will use a shader that makes them appear backlit/fullbright so "my ad is too dark" wont be an issue.

Still im wondering why they are using the stock q3 maps, 90% of them were utter shit or gimmick maps... Surely it would have been wiser to use the best x number of community q3 maps and pay a royalty to the mapper of each one... 

I think Carmack said something (in a previous shacknews interview) that they might have some kind of competitions/screening process for custom maps with the best ending up in a map pack.

Ads will probably come in the form of one or more ad shaders that will be responsible for showing the current ads, having fixed ad textures seems very unlikely. 

You have shader/advert1 - 3 (or whatever) and the server loads up whatever is the currently posted advert on map start. I've integrated one for a splash screen. 

in a fair few q3dm maps there are "mapper ads" on the walls already, which show the map name and/or author and they don't really look out of place in an arena game, so they won't really bother me that much :) 

But it is man's sociological nature that gloriously bent advertisement will eventually be replaced with degenerate PSA's (Public Service Announcements). Having fun in the Arena? Maybe you are having too much fun. If you are having too much fun, seek the advice of a professional.

I remember a time when riding in the morning to work, listening to FM disc jockies, the commercials were all silly, sick and full of adolescent humor. Now, turning on the same stations, all you get is paternalistic advice telling you to quit smoking, seek help for your depression, practice safe sex to avoid AIDS, don't judge others, avoid fatty foods, and don't swerve into traffic because the onslaught of publicly financed PSA's is really pissing you off. 

Still im wondering why they are using the stock q3 maps, 90% of them were utter shit or gimmick maps...

Because they made them and they can't tell.

Remember the Tim Willits multiplayer map advice I posted? He reccomends gimmick maps. 

but for casual players, gimmick maps are actually fun. The depth of a good "serious" map is not discernible to people that don't have a deep understanding of the game. So they don't miss the lack of depth in a gimmick map, but they do notice the gimmick, which is fun and interesting. You'd have to be a more seious player to notice that the gimmick overshadows the other game mechanics and distorts or breaks their usual balance. 

Take the 10% of gamers who bother to complete a game.

Remove from that the 80% with no aptitude.

Remove from that the 90% who prefer not to sit in a darkened office on the weekend, pissing about with new problem n.

There you have a game developer, probably the only people who can tell.

And most of the Q3 mappers can tell, but their bosses don't care if they're complaining, because they're not in that hallowed (socially misfit) group.

At least it pays the way. 

But what I mean is that the publishers want a few bells and whistles, some flashy visuals (not necessarily the latest graphics engine) and mediochre gameplay, because that appeases marketing, and they think that it'll sell.

And they're fucking right.

That's why there's so many people still playing and mapping / modding for this ancient game, and not a few developers. Its basically the inverse of the list above. 

and the rest of us (that is the minority) have to deal with that.

Although, surely id can tell BY NOW that most stock q3 maps were crap. It's actually amazing that they built such a compelling, efficient gameplay with so few good maps to test it in... 

 

Word. 

is like crossfire in half life - that annoying map where it's a big normal open map with a bunker at one end, and whenever some idiot presses the button there's an alarm and anybody who isn't in the bunker when the doors shut gets nuked. Or there's a chamber with an item in it and when some other idiot hits the button you get trapped in it and it fills with lava or something. Or the map is a maze with spawns at the edges, and whoever gets to the middle first hits the button that makes the floor drop out and fall into spikes or whatever other kind of contrived shenanigans that go above just the simple interaction of players, items, and layout, usually breaking the aforementioned in the process because now all anyone wants to do is camp the button.

At least, that's in multiplayer. I guess part of the whole tumult we've had recently here is a dearth of good single player gimmick maps. 

Crossfire was actually a nice map. The gimmick would work only every 5 minutes or so, which made it pretty balanced, and quite interesting. Most often turned the tables.

Agree on the other gimmicks ;) q3dm17 ftw 

Does anyone know if there exists video of it? i can't find anything anywhere :( And reading some dumbass reporters 'main points' isn't quite the same. 

q1 dm2 would be a gimmick map I guess. And just look how great it is.
A map can only be as good as the players play it and vice-versa. Who would give e1m2 or dm6 a first look and say they are good? 

And for the other 4 minutes and 30 seconds everyone clustered around the button waiting for it. 2/3 of the map was empty except for people who'd spawned out there and had to walk back to where the 'gameplay' actually was. 

hm, my games never were like that. all the action always is in the atrium. That's where i get the most frags, and every now and then someone pushes the button so all my powerups and weapons aren't that useful anymore and i need to actually move my arse ;) 

That map's weird. There's a cool secret area I found once. I like it inside the buildings because it's quite cramped and in a lot of places you really can't see very much at all. 

secret areas in DM maps! those are great for seperating the men from the noobs. 

Shoot something that doesn't look like a button and the RA area turns into a pit of death - thats the business.

Was it Deadmeat maps that did that? 

I agree some of those things are annoying in DM, although I'm not against certain unusual elements/features (eg. Quad trap) as long as they're not the main focus of the map that distracts from proper gameplay.

Which Q3A maps in particular qualify as gimmick maps then? I can't really think of any, except maybe the grenade shooter in the Quad room of one map, and maybe the crusher in that space tourney map.

Bler: You can't be seriously considering dancing monsters, exploding scenery, the goatse guy, happy textures, or silly centerprints as gimmicky... :P 

these guys think the space maps are all gimmick maps... i'd say they are just a genre of map, that happens to be shallower in some incarnations (but non-space maps can be shallow too) 

qualifies as a gimmick map. I recall the day the demo of Q3Arena was released, my brother invited me over to play. He had been practicing with bots for several hours before I got there, and I doubt I have to spell it out to anyone how he dominated my ass on that map. 

I agree with Metl, I don't think q3dm17 is really a gimmick map, and yeah even if it's totally overplayed, and forces a specific kind of gameplay onto the players, I still think it plays ok, and is one of the better maps in q3.

On the other hand some of the other space maps in q3 were more gimmicky in my opinion, like q3dm19 and it's stupid moving platforms. 

but only because they're my friends! 

 

 

 

Hello,
I'm Robert and I'm co-developing new quake1 project - portal gun mod (see wiki record: Portal_(video_game))
We already have portal gun and models of portal gates, but the main thing is still open: levels.
Could anybody who likes idea of portal gun AND making levels, help us? Just please send me mail on
boby_my[strange_a]mail.com
The project is OpenSource.

Edit: Post in the mappers wanted thread. 

Post your work-in-progress mod. Or at least screenshots/video.

Btw there are 2 (3?) quick portal mods for Quake already. They all have some quirks though. 

That Spirit is wize (and old), but in view of recent posts, I would say this warrants its own thread!

Create yourself an account and post it as a discussion thread. I bet loads of people express interest. I express interest!

I must tell you though, I would need basic entity information and a compiled progs to do anything here - I only really know how to map, not program.... 

I seriously don't get this: Blizzard announced Diablo 3 and now Diablo 2, a 7 year old game, has been in the Top10 PC Games sales chart for like 4 or 5 weeks straight. What's even more funny/ridiculous is that Blizzard had 4 titles in the Top10 of last week:

4: World Of Warcraft: Battle Chest
6: Diablo Battle Chest
7: World Of Warcraft
8: World Of Warcraft: Burning Crusade Expansion Pack 

Diablo 2 is actually one of the games still available in stores after such a long time. 

You don't get why one of the greatest games of all time, and what is clearly still the best action RPG ever created with nothing that even comes close, is selling well?

I guess it IS surprising that people are actually buying it, since you'd figure most people would still have their old versions lying around. Maybe it's people who have lost their discs, or encouraging friends to try it, etc.

Then again another factor you may not have considered is that they only just started offering the game for purchase/digital download in their online store (this coincided with the D3 news). If those sales figures are counting the downloadable version, it's easier to see why the sales figures are higher than you'd usually expect.

Not that finding a physical copy is difficult, it's always available! 

Actually, those things are what http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=15861&start=283 is for. 

http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=639413&cid=24521215 

The "game industry" is largely a cult of managers, where imagination dies and talent is unrewarded.

That's pretty full of itself as a statement, but the cult of managers thing is spot on the money. 

 

 

I'm crossposting this from the beta-thread. Partly to drum up some downloads, but mostly because I'm an asshole.


http://www.grayheaven.net/cs_starl...

Cubemaps might be fucked, lighting might be fucked, the whole damn map is most probably fucked.

If there is no func_ cs:s server running custom maps, I might be able to host something for us to playtest maps on. Might.

Comments are unwelcome, expected, probable, and will of course go ignored. 

404...looks like the link got mangled 

motherfucker...

http://www.grayheaven.net/cs_starling_pb01.bsp 

no I don't, you can tell because there's no sarcasm in what you linked, but IAWTP. 

So I thought I would share this with you all...

http://daz.quaddicted.com/

The dazsp3 easter egg that no-one ever noticed despite an on-screen hint ;) 

Should have been a news submission :P 

Are Daz and Dranz the same person or not?!? 

What about Drannerz? Or is that just another name for Dranz (and possibly Daz)? 

Daz / dazerz = me

Dranz / Drannerz = Chris Dransfield

We were both friends in school / college and got into mapping at around the same time and figured a joint site would be fun to do.

So yeah, we are different people :)

You just need to look at a dranz map to see I didn't make it :) 

hehe Daz, yes Dranz was a exclent mapper one of the best dm maps i ever saw in Quake!

does he still map? the guy had imaginacion and a lot of fingers to choose textures.

hope he get a job in the industry of gaming becouse he is really really good.

P.s.-> you rock to :) but in that stage that you both were mapping he was a few years ahead... 

Is one of the best Q2 maps ever made. 

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you're not running one, eh metslime ;)

Ah, the darkened trough of shit that is the internet. 

I like the fact they only capitalised the you in the title.

Good god damn and other such phrases... 

it's really quite profound :} 

 

 

Someone almost got killed in a fight by getting frozen lasy aigna to his head.

Italian beaches support blow-up churches because they are easy supported.
Everyone left the beach with a balloon god. 

 

(me too) 

You've probably already seen this . . .

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/8/11/ 

the balloon was well textured
actually a text balloon. 

I rock.

I had this pretty cool room with nifty detailing that I had some real trouble editing due to seriously messy brushwork and it was a bit too small, so I remade the entire damn thing. Now its a breeze to edit and the new scale is exactly what was needed, took like 3 hours, but was totally worth it. 

Ijed: he probably won't see your post though. haven't seen him since he took kinn personally and left in a huff. 

with the 'fuck this shit, I'm out of here' response, but like you said, he hasn't posted since then so either that was fo' real or he is on double secret crunch duty. 

If he's saved from the stony-face inducing tedium that masquerades as a "comic" in Penny Arcade, good for him. 

negke can you correct your current email? the one you got is not correct...

please? 

The appron fits well, too. 

negke gime your fucking email or me and all Portuguese will invade Germany and make a lot of Portugermans kids!!!

your womens will love our great Portuguese cocks!!!

and pure blonde blue eyes will vanish from the face of the earth!!! 

It's in my profile. 

To be on the safe side, just don't click any links that I post. 

Will try to remember ;).


P.S. Where the hell is Portugal anyway?? 

Shambler the country that almost invade UK to bad the ships were comanded by Spanish :p or you english were talking PT/ES :) 

Jugando con fuego Trinca. 

Kinn? I thought I baited him into leaving?

I wouldn't demand credit but I'm trying to achieve a balance, currently it's people made to leave the 'community' in a sulk; 3, times I've 'quit' in an ott, unreasonable sulk; 4.

So... who can I insult today? ;) 

nonentity me!!! i said bad stuff of Spanish :) 

You quit every other week, that doesn't count (and is just too easy)

;p 

poor me :( nobody hates me... 

:) 

RickyT23 fucking yeeeee

love and hate are connected!!! 

ricky and trinca: get a fucking room you worthless wastes of space. it's not like either of you can map, so quit wasting our fucking time.

nonspire: kill yourself

Shambler: no one cares what you think anymore, you don't map and you don't stroke people's egos with your elitist reviews, piss off.

Madfox: you r4wk.

Kinn: besides fucking czg in the ass, what exactly do you even do?

Headthump: you know everyone ignores you, right?

Bal: I love u! <3 

Scampie loves Bal \o/ or Bal loves Scampie \o/

hummm i´m fucking confuse!!!

make maps not...

o
|_ __o
|\ |\ \

with one is who? 

and Patrick FitzSimon

Two irish mappers 

I quit. 

...?? 

 

He'll never love you shrimp, he just steals all your chicken and runs away :(

Anyway, I thought you just kickbanned people from #tf to make them quit? 

I wish I knew how to quit you.

(Brokeback quote for added homoerotic effect.) 

If I can acknowledge your post whilst maintaining my quitter status, Ricky. 

I cant look anymore 

 

o
|_ __o
|\ |\ \

with one is who?

Likely, Scampie moves in with Bal because he already has his shit packed. 

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! 

How can you speak for everyone when nobody like you? 

Everybody loves Bal :) 

I even hated myself a bit for using Bal in the example above, but otherwise it would not have worked. 

zommgggg these conversacion are so refreshing! roulf made me will to map!

later on girls!!! 

The Darker Side of the Quake Community

http://www.mindspring.com/~win32ch/Reaper.htm

Certain web sites dedicated to providing information on Quake, have instead become id's and any other mod author's, bitch. As a result, the info on the site can no longer be trusted as accurate or unbiased. 

Anyone know how to make Ramshackle work?

I know the links were broken for a while, but you could still look in the source to find the correct URLs for the reviews. Now there's some strange holding page thing;

http://hosted.planetquake.gamespy.com/ramshackle/ 

Who is that non-person and what are they prattling on about? 

Reaper bots I think, I read the entire thing and still didn't understand.

But they took their campaign against Steve Polge all the way to Blue's (and in fact there's a response from a young Willem in there).


I think this was suppressed as part of the Inside3D/mod community Omicron conspiracy, we must let the truth out! 

who didnt get the job working on Unreal. I sense a real bitterness there.

Serously though - he goes on about people in the Quake community writing nice things about ID software like its a disgrace. Hello-O!!! Quake community!!! (moron) 

That proves the Inside3D crowd were elitist jerks too, just like Func. There goes your white vest, modders! 

when planetquake made every hosted site manually move themselves from planetquake.com/them/ to hosted.planetquake.gamespy.com/them/ any site that wasn't actively maintained obviously didn't make the transition and thus effectively disappeared. Lots and lots of fantastic resources are gone now. 

nine years I had to screw my money to keep my internet account exposeable it has been beaten with the abandon-mod and cost me 35Mb on webspace.

finally I am released of this quest by being hosted by fileplanet, who has been kind to offer me space to dump this on the net. And don't blame fileplanet, you free share downloaders.

the same file I got screwed on when I entered this board on 2003 and now looking for my post New QUake Single Pack in the NewsBulletin it has got lost in the last server switch.

But nevermind, I'm still working on it with all changes like scripting, orb factory, storybook. Only my intention changed, I mean, uh let's stick together.. for a map or half.
Here it goes ... abandon ~ light ~on the rocks ~.

http://madfox.planetquake.gamespy.com/ 

Cunts 

 

wasn't there at one point an "ultimate wad collection" somewhere? does that still exist? 

http://quaddicted.com/wads/

? 

yeah, that's the one!

I keep up with things real well 

Ultimate twat collection. 

I can't resist the awesome implications of such an idea

...every classic asshole, every style of retard, every aspect of being unpleasant for whatever reason (design attitude).. all collected in one collection of jackasses... the most accurate and powerful collection in history of random gay assholeness 

http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/teaser/blog/200808/octo7002.jpg?DCMP=ILC-arttsrhcol&nsref=specrt10_head_Octopus%20puzzling 

Ratbrain controls robot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-0eZytv6Qk 

That explains it. Secret experiments to give rodents control of computer systems. Codename; Madfox 

I'm waiting for the collectable card edition. 

Well, QEXPO may not be quite up and running just yet, but it's August 15th, so here it is:

Soul of Evil: Indian Summer
http://www.quaddicted.com/filebase/nsoe.zip (23 MB)

A custom engine is required - aguirReQuake or Darkplaces.

This is a standalone fantasy-themed Q1SP episode, with many new features programmed by Patrick Martin. It contains nonlinear gameplay, horde combat, and new and modified enemies with new and modified attacks, making it a big challenge. Major thanks to aguiRe, ijed, Trinca and Zwiffle.

Further information in the readme:
http://tronyn.planetquake.gamespy.com/Nsoereadme.txt

Screenshots:
http://tronyn.planetquake.gamespy.com/indiansummer_1.jpg
http://tronyn.planetquake.gamespy.com/indiansummer_2.jpg
http://tronyn.planetquake.gamespy.com/indiansummer_3.jpg
http://tronyn.planetquake.gamespy.com/indiansummer_4.jpg
http://tronyn.planetquake.gamespy.com/indiansummer5.jpg

I'm also releasing packages of hires skins for SOE created by aguiRe:
http://www.quaddicted.com/filebase/soeskins_glquake.zip for the aguirReQuake version, http://www.quaddicted.com/filebase/soeskins_dp.zip is the Dark Places version.

Devkit will be released sometime during QEXPO. 

but why didn't you submit it as a news post? 

I dunno, figured some moderator would move it. 

been three years since I had anything newsworthy to submit; I'm claiming the right to be dumb based on that.

PS: update at my site (http://www.planetquake.com/tronyn), pretty much the same info/links as here. 

http://s08.idav.ucdavis.edu/olick-current-and-next-generation-parallelism-in-games.pdf

He goes into some of the stuff they do to approach many-core parallelism, including some details about the infinite-geometry stuff Carmack has being waffling on about.

It's missing a lot of context and is pretty hard to follow, but interesting regardless. 

I couldn't message back to you, but that site, despite having part of my address name has no affiliation with me. It goes against my 'under the radar' belief system to have something out there like that. I don't recommend clicking on it, it looks like a Target marketing gimmick at best, or a depository of viruses at worst. 

Elderworld or Elder World? 

Episode 4: The Elder World 

I've asked a similar question before, but I never got an answer:

How can I get Fitzquake to run well on a 16mb graphics card?

- jengle 

According To Quake
Episode 4: The Elder World

it's ugly that way though, isn't it? :P~ 

blow me 

If you check the last 30 days of active peeps, Ricky has not been around. It doesn't seem that long. Where the hell is Ricky? 

Checking the log of all those who ever signed into the func_board, Ricky never existed! . Like he was the figment of my imagination or something. 

he changed his name to SadGitNerdFace. 

some ways to reduce memory usage in any engine:

- run in 16 bpp mode. This requires only half the texture memory that 32 bpp mode uses.

- set gl_max_size to e.g. 256 (this will only downsample the largest images, and leave the rest looking normal. Unfortunately, many monster skins and player skins would be among those affected.)

- set gl_picmip to 1 (or even 2, though that would be really blurry)

- run in a lower resolution (framebuffer takes up video memory)

Here are some fitzquake-specific things that might reduce texture thrashing:

- set gl_fullbrights to 0 (textures will still be loaded, but won't be used and therefore will stay out of video memory after the first thrash.)

- set r_oldwater to 1 (again, textures will be loaded, but then not used and therefore will get bumped out of memory permanently.) 

 

 

I was being cheeky because Ricky didn't change the color of his (or, maybe, her) font. 

 

I'm still heading my tumb which flic pimpt me on my luuny ran to IRC. 

Have a look at this engine here - pretty good.
http://www.quake-engine.com 

all those changes combined made only a minimal difference; it's still *way* doggy. anything else i can do? 

It's also possible you are limited by heapsize, not video memory. A larger heap would prevent re-caching of models (this happens in cases where you are using close to 100% of the heap, and it constantly juggles models in and out of it)

does it run badly on any map, or just large or just single-player maps? 

Don't think I have ever posted this before, but if so, shoot me. If you have not had a good ten minute hate today, this one will surely fit the bill if you hate what comics devolved into during
the nineties as much as i do:

The 40 Worst Rob Liefeld Drawings

http://progressiveboink.com/archive/robliefeld.html 

Thanks for that. 

Even if I know less than most people about comics. I do like a good bit of vitriol though. 

Play less Engineer. Seriously. It's mindboggling. Go play Soldier or something fun!

I do enjoy engineer (not as much as the stats might suggest), but I've banned myself from playing it for a while because it really is getting a bit silly looking at those stats, yes...

Simple and obvious explanation is that when you're on that class, you tend to stay on it, because your team is relying on your sentry, teleporters etc.

As for soldier being fun, well, he's easily one of my most effective classes, and it is fun, but I don't enjoy it as much as I should because a) it's so easy that it feels wrong and b) too slow (movement AND rocket speed, remember I'm a proper Quake fan).

If you really care the stats actually lie because they got partially reset at one point... all my medic, soldier and pyro time got reset to 0 (Pyro and Soldier were at 20-30 hours at the time).

p.s. I'm not alone: http://www.steampowered.com/status/tf2/tf2_stats.php 

I crush many little men.
http://born-robotic.net/stuff/iroktf22.jpg

Can't decide what classes I prefer, changes alot, these days Pyro Spy and Heavy are my favorites, got bored of Soldier for the reasons Frib stated. 

Bal destroys cowards! 

Bomb cart will not push self!


I have to say, TF2 has been the most enjoyable online FPS game I've played since Q1. Going to map for it sometime, and kinda suprised no one else in our little community has. Only thing that holds me back is Worldcraft being the shitty editor it is. 

It's Lunaran's birthday!

Happy Birthday Lun! 

Yeah agreed, best multiplayer FPS in a long time for me.
I've tried making maps, I still plan on finishing one. czg has some maps too i bet, but he'll never finish them cause he hates us.
Zwiffle is working on one that looks off to a good start. 

Scampie: we need to hang out 

no you smell 

Like lilacs (my cologne.)

Just for you. 

who do image editing: http://www.pixlr.com/app/ 

 

It runs poorly the second the game boots up. I'm using a computer with 512mb RAM and a 16mb graphics card. Even when all the main applications are closed, it's still *way* doggy. I don't know what to do. 

I've been making a TF2 map (though really only just playing around and getting used to the editor right now). It's better than I remember, to be honest (the editor...) mind you I haven't used it since the WorldCrash days. 

-heapsize 64000

In the commandline. 

Perhaps we can map-swap sometimes or somesuch. (TF2 maps I mean.) 

Yay! Send beta when it's playable. =)

btw, fuck yeah:
http://steamgames.com/tf2/heavy/images/05_lumberyard_1.jpg
Finally a new TF2 map theme, and it looks really nice, that painted skybox looks gorgeous, I'll definitely try to make a map with this theme when the update is out. 

i guess when i get around to making my "sawmill" map, i wont have to do any texture work. Or maybe i don't need to make the map at all, now that the theme won't be fresh and revolutionary. 

I'll need help/testing when the time comes, but it'll be a long way off (too busy with work and playing TF2 :)

I actually just blocked out a few CP areas without much thought as to overall map layout or what style of map I wanted to make (since there's several variants of the CP thing).

To be honest, I was expecting Hammer to be crap and I figured I'd spit the dummy long before I finished any map. As much as it surprises me to acknowledge it though, the editor seems not only bearable but perhaps actually enjoyable to use (!) 

Anyone making any map for any game, make sure you finish it before Diablo 3 comes out... 

I'm worried about Warhammer Online. Been downloading for about 12 hours now, 10 minutes left to go on the preload. Woot! 

http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/951257/far-cry-2-/videos/FC2_MapEditor_081808.html

Take a look. Paint your map. The narrator sounds like Atlas from Bioshock. 

For the first time in 6-7 years, [Kona] has loaded up Worldcraft. "Looks pretty basic, I'll get the hang of it pretty quick again," said the prolific and legendary map author shortly after his return to the community.

He has expressed interest in doing something metal or gothic, "like Autumn Haunting, only bigger and more epic." He's currently taking submissions of "awesome" Quake texture sets to base the map on.

He's also redesigned his website, now hosted at http://www.electricescape.com/etherealhell/ after Telefragged/Atomic Gamer shut down his old site for hosting porn.

[Editor's note: rejected as news, but this would make an awesome discussion thread] 

Legendary mapper unzips fly; Mapping community opens collective mouths to suckle. 

I like that fact it was posted with the flame icon. Also, kekeke Lun 

fffffffuck 

;/ 

Try knitting work for your destructive boredom issues. 

congrats on that spacehulk prize, that looks awesome! 

Just a shame there weren't more maps I spose. 

Quaddicted.com archive update once again:
http://www.quaddicted.com/?p=178 

It's even got Jack Bauer in it! Well, his voice anyways. 

Whos Jack Bower? 

 

got Shelbyville nuked in the cliffhanger finale of the '07 season of the Simpsons. Funny they have never addressed this in the '07-'08 season. I mean, your neighboring city is nuked, that's huuuuge! 

 

Shelbyville got an option other than 4? 

there are some episodes of the 07-08 season that I did not see. Perhaps, in one of those it was explained that Shelbyville was decimated by the wrath of God for being a town of cousin humpers. 

Since no one has given a straight answer, and though mine my help if you have seen that episode, I'll fill in. Bauer is the dude on 24 who knows judo and who likes to pistol whip suspected terrorist. I followed it for a half of a season some years back and found the plot to be springing far too many inexplicable holes for me to bother finishing the season.

Speaking of leaky plots, to the dude who e-mailed about it, I'm aware that The Simpsons has very little actual continuity. That was the point of my jibe ;) 

The Futurama What-if? machine was pretty good, just an excuse to throw a load of random storylines together.

Bender becoming human was great.

"You watched it; you can't un-watch it" 

. 

found the plot to be springing far too many inexplicable holes for me to bother

junk food for the brain. dont like "soaps". 

so ... apparently I'm kind of a dick.


Promise I'll try not to be that evil in Lunsp2. 

junk food for the brain

And have you seen what junk food for the stomach does to your gut?

btw, Generation Kill pwns (obviously) 

The only bad bit was the boss fight.

It was still a clever idea, but a pain in the balls to play.

The rest of the level is great; good evil. 

Another very nice, detailed 2-map pack for ZDoom in atmospheric base style. Has exporational bits and a few new monsters including Cyberbarons.

http://www.doomworld.com/php/screenie.php?dir=/images/newstuff/325/&filename=thunpeak01.png
http://www.doomworld.com/php/screenie.php?dir=/images/newstuff/325/&filename=thunpeak05.png

-> http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/?id=15409 

I ran out of ammo at one point and had to axe some grunts to death and scavenge their shells.

The red enforcer shield mechanic is really not very clear. I remembered how it worked, but also discovered how useless it is hammering at them with the DBS. Something similar to the Zer shield that makes use of quake's "red particles = hurting"/"grey particles = not hurting" thing would have been much more intuitive.

There were a couple points where I sensed ambushes, half because they were obvious and half because I vaguely remembered setting them up three years ago. Some of those ambushes instilled in me a prescient irritation.

And I had trouble figuring out my own boss. :P 

btw, Generation Kill pwns (obviously)

I've admire David Simon's work since he wrote Homicide. His technical thoroughness puts the discipline of sociology to shame. 

Lun got pwned by his own map. Ace!

Negke, those look good - very Quake quality architecture.

Can someone explain Z-Doom to me?? I need to buy Doom, then install Z-Doom, then I can play with mouse / keyboard / remappable keys etc etc?? 

Is still something I'm not sure about. The Quoth Deathlord works ok, but I'm not sure how much gameplay 'worth' he'd lose without the shield.

Those red enforcer captains in lunsp1 were only killable with nails, really, since they didn't switch to a close combat attack when the player got close (like a deathknight) so their spread attack multiplied in danger when getting close.

The only really irritating ambush I remember is the vore at the top of the lift - basically forcing the player to snipt its bounding box from below and wear down its health - seemed drawn out.

The main problem for me with the boss is that he leads me when aiming on skill 3, turning the battle into a quicksave spamming session.

But these problems were completely outweighed by the amount of cool stuff in there.

Looking forward to sp2. 

Yes, it works pretty much like with Quake engine ports. You can even drag&drop pwads onto zdoom.exe if you don't want to mess around with a command line. Controls, appearance etc can be configured from the menu.

If you like those, give KDIZD a try. 

The megaenforcer shield has always been broken, somtimes on / off aside from the visual fx.

And it was only ever an annoyance, for me at least. 

I loved your map, but I havent managed to complete it yet!! :P

But this means that I will play it again!
It is very immersive, and massive, and tense. There are cool bits where you are running round a "circuit" through different rooms, with guys shooting at you across water, the player just running around and returning fire as they go, around and around until threats were cleared 

I was going to mention that too. Caught me totally off guard, but there's ways to kill vores without hiding, namely, run around like a madman and let the voreballs queue up behind you, then shake them later.

Vores really aren't used very well in maps, since usually the designer just throws them in solo in places where the player can easy just snipe from around corners. Since they almost always achieve priority-one status in any combat they show up in because of their lethality and how much attention they require, they're best when there's fiends and knights chasing you about, invalidating cover spots and making you deal with the vore in the less convenient and more dangerous but still possible to avoid all damage way. 

Zer mega-enforcer was cool, always liked the shield idea on that, possibly the best "nu-gameplay" thing in Quake until Quoth's flying snot things came along. 

i thought they were a cool concept, but none of the mods that use it seemed to do a great job of communicating exactly when the shield is up vs. down, and whether I can do partial damage or no damage when the shield is up. I end up just shooting at the enemies continuously until they die.

Some better audiovisual presentation, plus maybe more time between raising and lowering events (so it doesn't seem to just randomly turn on/off) would help. 

you know, like romulans. 

Never thought of AvP soundtrack as an alternative Quake score. Gotta try it. Thanks for the advice, Lun! 

tracks 2-10: pants for quake
tracks 11-15: awesome for quake 

is there some link you could post with all the info on doom engines and new doom wads?
What are some of the best wads? I've never played any non id maps, other than that one qboard thing. 

http://www.doomworld.com/

There is a great review site I have in mind, I'll get back with you when I find it again :) 

http://games.moria.org.uk/doom/du/index.html

My only problem with playing Doom and Doom II is a sense of nausea I get after playing for a while. Not an aesthetic criticism!, but a real headache/nausea feeling. I have an eye stigma condition that is probably the source of the problem. Anyway . . . there you go! 

after a while as well. So did Hexen/Dark Forces/Duke3D/etc so I always just put it down to the partial 3D. 

congrats Lunaran on Post #15,000 

and I used the words "quake", "awesome", and "pants" for it 

If you have ever had folders/files in windows that you could not delete because they were protected somehow (example : a windows vista installation that you don't use any more) then this little freeware app can help you out.

http://ccollomb.free.fr/unlocker 

handy little gadget! :) 

 

With the questions concerning Doom popping up, I was looking for some older levels that enjoyed in the day. Could this be you?

http://games.moria.org.uk/doom/du/reviews/darkeden.html 

- sean 'scampie' campbell, august 26th, 2008, 1:54 pm cst 

 

I was just reading this stuff about the Nephilim. Whoah!!! I have never read about this before....

Anybody got any interesting links or books to recommend on the subject?

Metl? - Antediluvian? 

I was just reading this stuff about the Nephilim. Whoah!!! I have never read about this before....

Anybody got any interesting links or books to recommend on the subject?

Metl? - Antediluvian? 

It's interesting reading. I've got a scrap for a map called Nephilim based on Vondur's Koohoo textures that I threw together after trawling through all that stuff.

Warp happened instead, although the Cúchulainn reference got lost and distorted. 

Someone please send me tronsp1, I managed to lose it. 

Doomworld is your site, as HeadThump mentioned.

Here is a list of available engine ports: http://www.doomworld.com/classicdoom/ports/ - might not be up-to-date, though.
I'd say casual players can't go wrong with ZDoom as it runs just about everything. It also has a GL variant. Many people also play with prBoom.
There are also eye-candy engines, some even with 3D models, like jDoom.

For levels, browse their idgames mirror http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?dir=levels/ (ratings)
Doomworld more or less regularly posts reviews of newly uploaded maps. However, sometimes they are very biased and unfair, sometimes even outrageously so, and partly lacking screenshots. 

I was watching The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, which is actually quite decent as far as anime goes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5PAkntjs5M

DANCE! Weeeee 

Scampie is merely steps away from enjoying tentacle loli porn like the rest of us.

(By us I mean Bal.) 

er.. Oorotsuckidojo 1 and 2 on dvd. A freind, er, lent it to me :) 

Ricky likes tenticle porn!


(it's Urotsukidoji) 

love love tropicana 

 

Are you really 24? I assumed your were older for some strange reason.... :P 

I notice that there is a #qexpo channel open, right? So what does that mean? Is it just a live chat thingy for bored Quake fans with too much time on their hands (ie me)?
I got onto this Java thing after persueing it through google, and could see the names of loads of people at the right side of the screen, but didn't know what to do...

Does that just mean that there was nobody on it at that time?

help 

most people assume that, yeah

the best part is I look 12 

Im less than half a year younger....

... 

Ricky: you type stuff. Ideally obscenities and insults. It's also popular to post links to the nearest available disgusting obnoxiousness the internet has to offer, especially if the URLs or filesnames make it seem harmless. 

http://tinyurl.com/happymonkey/ 

network: irc.anynet.org
channel: #qexpo
This is a great free program for it: http://silverex.org/download/ 

you're 11 1/2? 

I am 24.
I smoke continuously and binge drink often. i.e Im English. It's great but it doesn't do much for my complexion :D

I feel I will have to post proof that I own a copy of, er, the legend of the overfeind/demon womb....

Then you can all marvel at my fantastic complexion. :D 

And I disown Ricky and his ilk. 

you never watch manga necro-porn (:?)
and you have skin like, er, Kelly, er, the one who went out with Jason Statham. 

keep them coming 

'ello ppls. I hope everyone is doing great.

Its been like 2 years since I played Quake in any form *ack*. I miss it terribly but my custom server finally went tits up. MAME & my music gear has held me over. Anyway, just poppin' in to see who else is still around. L8rs 

DeFrag go play the levels you missed... or vanish forever!!! 

http://action.mancubus.net

Nice, a stand-alone comic beat-em-up game based on the Doom engine. Has a Frank Miller-like story, multiple paths and endings and numerous insider jokes. 

DeFrag! How's it going mate? :D 

also i prefer jason woorhees

btw iddqd.ru (the great doom site) 600 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sdUNZSkJqw&feature=related 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55Q3j8DOJtM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sZ2RN6aBFg

but if you really want to see it in its full glory I would invest...... 

 

may i suggest you
http://nftv.ru/ 

http://www.aeonflux.com/comic/

http://www.aeonflux.com/ 

http://shub-hub.com/files/images/kiss.jpg 

Doing fair mate. I have tons of questions but should probably just read 2 years of posts 1st. What's major in the last couple years? Q1 still strong? Peej alright? School, work, got kids? Its surprising that Tigger-On is still doin' LvL. 

Doing fair mate. I have tons of questions but should probably just read 2 years of posts 1st. What's major in the last couple years? Q1 still strong? Peej alright? School, work, got kids? Its surprising that Tigger-On is still doin' LvL. 

dont read 2yrs worth of posts, especially in GA, it'll probably make you not want to come back at all :)

lots of quake stuff still happening, not so much on the q2 scene. 

Hi nitin, nice to see you're still around.

Anyone seen Zan? Tell him his mother is looking for him! HAR 

http://shub-hub.com/files/misc/pipe.zip 

and a crack pipe? 

http://que.planetquake.gamespy.com 

It's a good way to make a pipe. Only when the thing goes hollow, chance is high it will produce hom's.
Have you seen that curv-entity map?
It has a large sphere, divided in small parts,from which you can easily make good pipe conduits. 

Good to see you're still kicking around, buddy =D 

You'll never find a Quark pipe in czg's apartment 

My main man.. Howza goza?
You still mappin'? For what Q1, 2, 3? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akaCiNm4eI4 

Here lately it's been HL2 SP and DM maps, and COD4 (Call of Duty 4, which uses something not unlike the Q3 engine) single-player. I've got a couple of Quake maps in the mix, too, although I haven't been back at them for a while. 

How's CoD4 mapping? 

Actually, have just slapped together some patches and stuff in the editor, haven't even tried compiling as of yet. May have more by this weekend, since SOMEONE ELSE has been trying to quick and dirty stuff, and I want to, too ;D 

it's on a desk in our office but it needs to be pointed out to the world

http://www.gamesetwatch.com/gp-0804.jpg

not a single title on that cover that doesn't have a number after it. 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ia-Q3A6KXCk/SKGxzjyfRqI/AAAAAAAAASo/nTiLdY5nmAg/s1600-h/OXM+Sept+08+Cover.jpg 

I just do not fucking understand some things in life. This is one of them:

http://kotaku.com/5045193/finally-dog-whispering-coming-to-ds 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHt_GOC1_Hg&feature=related

now I know what to get my dad for christmas :P 

 

did i ever release chapter_necros2? o.o 

2 new map reviews at the site:

http://underworld.planetquake.gamespy.com/index.html 

thanks for the kind words, btw :) 

Heck man thanks for the maps! 

I took the liberty of porting them.

http://qexpo.tastyspleen.net/booth.php?id=157

I'm porting treeqbsp, too, but there are some ... problems.

Enjoy. 

build that supercomputer so you can vis our maps for us. And build a web interface for uploading and downloading the bsp:s.

Didn't Willem or someone already enable multithreading? Don't remember.

GB: You're golden. 

I don't think bjp's vis is threading.

But since we have

a) the source, compiling on *nix
b) people like Lord Havoc and Willem

we might have something like this eventually.

Full source goes up at qexpo tonight or tomorrow. I hope some of the people from 2) or similar get hacking on this soon. (qbsp doesn't compile yet, read PORTING in the source once it is up.)

Bambuz: Thanks. 

someone should make a distributed vis app that everyone runs on their computer (like the SETI@home thing) so every mapper can help vis a small bit of whatever map is in the queue.

Even retired mappers, and wanna-bes, and hangers-on can contribute! You can later brag "i vised that really awesome room with the pillars in that really awesome map everyone likes."

Or you could be the one that vised that dull corridor with the unfair trap. It's unpredictable! 

Quake on Steam -- was it always this cheap? Quake 1,2,3 and their mission packs for $15:

http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=sub&SubId=434 

on Steam, just so that I can access it from anywhere in the world.

It's quite handy, but the one downside is that you still need a CD for the music. 

bjptools for Linux here:

http://qexpo.tastyspleen.net/booth.php?id=157

please read Changelog and PORTING.

If you can help porting qbsp, contact me.

gb 

Straight from Steam:

"This weekend only, id Software games are 50% off. This includes the id Super Pack for only $34.99 (over $200 worth of games). Or take 50% off individual titles such as Doom, Quake, Wolfenstein, Commander Keen, Heretic, and Hexen. Offer ends Monday, September 8." 

I took the id Super Pack, just to make up for the 1 or 2 games I never actually paid (probably heretic and hexen or something). It's really too bad Quake 4 isn't in it, but hey, that's not really an id game. 

... really did go down the tubes, didn't it?
http://www.pvponline.com/2008/08/28/epix-battle/ 

Nice, but please (also) port TxQbsp as it's slightly superior to TreeQbsp. 

OK, I included txqbsp. Coolness, this includes even more Windows-specific functions. :-( don't expect it tomorrow. 

What exactly does it do better than Treeqbsp?

It seems too hard for me to port because of (insert a number of weird things here). I mean, in Tree I can at least pinpoint the problem :-P 

A full set of AguirRe's compilers has been ported to Linux. Treeqbsp, vis and light compile and work as they should.

http://qexpo.tastyspleen.net/booth.php?id=157

TXqbsp and bspinfo have been included and added to the Makefile, but do not compile yet. If anybody feels particularly brave and wants to help porting them, be my guest.

The next milestone will be to add multithreading to vis and light, following Willem's code.

The tools are open source and the working ones are released under the GPL, in accordance with id Software's re-release under said license.

Enjoy.

goldenboy 

I mean vis and light? :) 

that willem did for mac, does anyone know where it is and which vis it's based off of? i'd use if it it was like aguire's vis that had the save feature and the verbose output 

It's included for reference in the latest bjptools, but is going to be removed by the next release.

It is apparently based on id vis (or perhaps rvis.) It's not based on Bengt's since that doesn't compile on Mac. Or didn't, I don't have a Mac so I can't test. But I removed all Windows specific stuff.

gb 

But I think I removed the _Macosx folder, so...

He linked it from the RMX pack thread, if that is any help. 

http://wantonhubris.com/ToolSrc/ 

thanks for the link, gb. the vis is of limited utility to me however, without some kind of save feature. i can't believe how useful that thing is. after having it all these years, i'd never dream of vising anything without it. o.o

still, it'll be handy if my mac ever has some down time and i have a vis process in the queue. :P 

I would be inclined to make the Linux version of visbjp compile and run on a Mac, after the threading feature is added. We'll have both then - saving and threading, ideally on Linux, *BSD and Mac.

I'd need someone with a Mac and a compiler, though...

Can I contact you for testing (and possibly compiling)? It's only 50K or something, and compiling is fast. 

but i don't really understand much of how this kind of thing works on mac. :P i hear a lot of talk about getting this stuff to compile... i'm just used to easy windows where i get a program and it's already compiled. :P

i only use the mac for very few, very specific tasks, so my general knowledge of the OS is pretty limited. 

Gad-dammit! 

Rickyt23 sent u a very important mail :) at least to me :) 

check your mail! :) 

make what? There already is a compiled Aquirre's vis for gaylords. I think you could quite easily compile that linux one on windows too.

Btw what are people's experiences of single core vs dual core vs quad core processors? Any help when doing some demanding work (what demanding work do you do?) 

This maight be hard for you to understand, but I'll try it anyway:

I dont have the slightest idea how to do that.

As for processors:

I have experience with dual cores, core2s, P4s, an Athlon 64 and a Phenom 64 (Quad Core).

I would say that the P4 (3.2Ghz) and the Athlon 64 (1.7), the P4 pisses all over the Athlon, and I use it on my admin PC, with 6+ spreadshoots and Sage Accounting software simnultaniously, and never have and slowdown at all!!! The PC is rarely used for anything else, but its "old" now.

Dual Core vs Core2Duo:

Both Intel, the Dual core is older, 2.3Ghz, the Core2Duo is a newer model, the 6750, clocked at 2.66Ghz (no overclocking done on any of my processors btw.)

The Core2Duo is REALLY REALLY GOOD!!! :) :) :) And pretty cheap now also! I use it for gaming, and with the exception of Crysis (which does<>30 fps on "very high" 1280x1024) all games are on max settings and resolution at 60hz. That's with a GTS 88000 512Mb, 800MhzDDR2 2Gb. And whilst playing Crysis at 30hz I am often running other stuff behind it, internet, WC, browsers etc. Norton virus scanning maybe. And there is very little ussues with slowdown. As long as I keep the disk defragged.

The Dual Core I do see slowdown, and games run slower, I dont feel its anywhere neer as good. I mean the graphics card isn't as good either, but when when just running internet browsers and emails it can slow down a bit. But its not TOO bad I guess....

The Phenom Quad Core runs about the same as the Core2Duo. If not slower. But that machine has Vista32 and 4GbRAM. Still very little slowdown, I actually think that the 2 cores in the Core2Duo 6750 2.66Ghz do a much better overall job than the QuadCore Phenom64 @2.3Ghz, by a fairly large margin.

Intel processors have bigger caches than Athlons. This is why they are faster. My Core2 has 4Mb, but the newer Core2s (the 8200-8500s) have 6Mb. And the crazy Quad Core Intels have more than that (but you pay for them). The Q6600 is a 4Mb cache slightly older Intel, @2.4Ghz with 4 cores, and it has a reputation for being VERY cost effective, although for the same money you could maybe get a 6Mb Core2Duo at 3Ghz+ (8500s) and I bet that would feel faster :) but if you have $5-600+ (US) I would go for an expensive Core2Xtreme thingy from Intel with 4 cores and 12Mb cache + :D

Don't bother with Athlon, they are slower. 

 

I dont have the slightest idea how to do that.

Ricky, you don't have to do anything - aguirRe's tools are already compiled for windows. They're talking about porting them over to linux. 

but, yeah, ricky, the reason you've already compiled and released maps is because the compilers already work in your OS :) 

...I'm mis-understanding everything!

Originally I think Necros was talking about Willems fantastic Multi-Threaded Vis, which so far cant be done in Windows. Boo-hoo for me. And anyone else who has Windows and want's to use their processor to its full potential, and half those vis times.

I love Aguires vis, its possibly one of the most influential tools of all time! Think of all the maps we never would have seen because vis wouldn't take the brushowrk :P

I need to be carefull saying that, because the maps are obviously sub-standard if only AguirRe's tools will work on them.....





(***not***) 

I assume you mean you want the multithreading for the Windows version.

Since atm we have two versions, one of which is Windows-specific, you should perhaps ask AguirRe for it.

In the meantime, someone could take Willem's vis and try compiling it on Windows, and then we will at least know if it works.

If it does work, a future multithreading *NIX version could theoretically be compiled for Windows (and Mac), and then we'll all be happy.

I hope. 

Aguire? Metl? Lunaran? Preach? (if I tried to make a list of all of the people who might know where to start, I'd be here all night...)

I dont know anything about how to do it :( 

I dont know anything about how to do it :(

Same here. I don't even have Windows.

Btw I didn't learn this stuff at college, either. You might google for "compile" and "Windows". I'm pretty sure there are free C compilers for that. Install one and RTFM. The principle isn't that hard to grasp. And YOU do have Windows :) 

Normally it is the other way around - Windows people tell that to us. 

Hey, was just wondering if anyone had a copy of, or link to, a Q1 map that I made ages ago called paddydm1.bsp - crazy shenanigans. HD that it was on failed, and I wouldn't mind having a look at it again.

email - sjoh079
gmail
com

Much appreciated. 

I found it on the MPQ archives, awesome! 

Who all wants to discuss the LHC??? 

so fucking stupidly portrayed in the US news media it's beyond belief. 

haven't actually seen anything about it in the news, have to go to like BBC or other websites to get any useful, new or interesting info on it. I myself am not really worried about the world ending, I just wanna see what cool physics stuff comes out of it. 

A bunch of bible-thumpers would prefer if we still ate our meat raw and lived in caves. </shrug>

Expanding particle physics is the normal progression of technology.

And I for one will be happy to be called up as a soldier when it rips open an inter-dimensional portal to the nether realms and releases horrors beyond the imaginings of mankind ready to devour the human race. 

lay off the caffeine dude 

Then I'll never finish it all. 

Zwiffle, I bet you know all about Large Hardon Colliders. 

u clever boy









Yes I do, btw. 

 

Wannacome back to my place for some experiments? 

damn near killed her! 

http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=870&start=1082&end=1082 

YYy-ess! Ah - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!

(sigh) 

Zwiffle meets Scampie.
Czg meets Vondur.
What else?
Biff meets Roy Bee? (In a dream.) 

A kung-fu panda meets bambuz 

bambuz meets ip failure 

cern meets succes 

keep on suckin til you do succeed 

That is just asking for the typical "yo mamma says..." retort. 

Isn't that some song lyric from somewhere? Its really pissing me off :) 

The problem with moving Willem's code from mac to Windows is that Mac Windows and Linux all do threading a bit differently. So you can't just copy it over and compile... I was looking at the code awhile back but got swamped with Real Life ™ stuff and haven't been able to look at it again...

cygwin (with GCC) or minGW could be used to compile on windows I'm not sure what threading libraries come with them. 

http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/ 

lol at it's source 

pthreads is available for mingw 

HTLHCDTWY doesn't have an RSS feed.

http://www.isxkcdshittytoday.com 

I am Roy Bee. 

 

I have a penis 

A walking penis that HAS a penis?




That's just stupid.




P.S. Hi czg. 

funk button 

This is kind of cool:
http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html 

Black hole generation: cool :P 

find a way to begin every press release over the next coming year with the word, 'whoops'. 

Indeed... it would be funny to see something like things: "Whoops, we unfortunately switched on the ring accelarator, but the excepected result was not there... however, we were very lucky, and we are glad to announce officially that we discovered the chthon-onh...etc.. etc..." 

End every announcement with 'Psyche!" 

http://gizmodo.com/5049896/hubble-finds-unidentified-object-in-space

Any more info? 

Brightness and spectrum not matching anything known, flaring up where it wasn't seen before and then dying again ...

A chance impact of two non-luminous bodies? Erroneous burp from a mostly dead star?

If it begins to flare cyclically then maybe it's a spinning and very shiny one of these:
http://www.garnersclassics.com/pics/2001/monolith.jpg 

Im in South Africa at the moment, broke the little finger of my left hand, so I cant play guitar..... :(

Back on Oct 7th (hopefully) :(

Anyhoo CYA, Loveya, etc, etc, etc, ra ra ra ... x 

...on Quake series, Rage series, and narrative:

http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/910/910730p1.html 

broke the little finger of my left hand, so I cant play guitar..... :(


Set that pinky with some tape and a stick and do it like Django. 

Id..

...on Quake series, Rage series, and narrative:

No wonder Id have never managed to pull off a decent narrative. Willits seemed to completely glaze over the fact that one of the most important things for a compelling storyline is meaningful interaction between multiple characters. Personally I don't think a Game will EVER do that as well as a novel or movie so developers should stop harping on about wanting to create a narrative masterpiece and actually concentrate on bringing us awesome gameplay. YEH. 

No wonder Id have never managed to pull off a decent narrative. [...cut...] Personally I don't think a Game will EVER do that as well as a novel or movie so developers should stop harping on about wanting to create a narrative masterpiece and actually concentrate on bringing us awesome gameplay. YEH.

Storyline and Gameplay is a false division in the interactive arts.

But the problem, and heart of the issue, is not that there are bad writers of games(though, honestly there are) or that somehow games cannot create meaningful interactions, but that the games industry as a whole has approached the problem in the wrong way and have only accidentally stumbled upon the solutions here and there. Even games championed for their 'story' are limited in their abilities to truely comb the depths that interactive narratives truely have. 'Storytelling' is wrong, 'Storycreation' is what games are about.

Games are, fundimentally, all about the player's entertainment. My belief is that the entertainment derived from gaming is fundimentally linked to narrative and story... it's just that the story is your own and you're experiancing it.

"I jumped into a pit and died."
"I 0wned this n00b with a headshot."
"I stole a car and ran down 3 hookers and then the cops caught me."
"I misplaced the L shaped block, so now I can't get a tetris"

The trick is making these minor stories somehow build and climax in a way that is natural and player driven. Half-Life 2, for instance, you naturally move from point to point along a story, and it feels very much like it is driven by the player. Things are reacting to you, or you stumble upon something, or a door blocks your path and you find the hatch on top of the building to sneak in. The few points of the game that jarred me was when it seemed I was given little choice but to follow the wishes and commands of the NPCs to head toward the next point of the story laid out for me. Let me find my own story! I never tell my buddies about how Gordan Freeman went to Xen... I talk about how I killed a helicopter with an RPG standing on a cliff.

Stories are made of choices of the protaganist, and his reactions to the antagonist. In games, the protaganist is the player, and the antagonist(s) are what the game throws at him.

All these minor stories, parts of the larger epic of your own gameplay experiance, are what are important in a game, and it feels like most 'story' games miss this point by attempting to force you to conform to 'their story'. RPGs such as Fallout or Obivion have generally let you take the minor stories and encounters you face, building them into that large epic.

[...paste!...]Willits seemed to completely glaze over the fact that one of the most important things for a compelling storyline is meaningful interaction between multiple characters.[/...paste!...]

This is true. We do need better characters to interact with, and be part of our story. It's sad that the Companion Cube is the best NPC character in a video game for a long time, though many RPGs do have some good ones. I think a key element missing here is that most NPCs don't do anything beside 'assist' the player, but don't have a goals or motives of their own. They don't appear to be 'playing' their own story out. Sidekicks are generally decent, but again break the illusion when they die and either it's planned by the game, and again not 'your story', or it's game over, which just sucks. 

People don't tell their friends the next day about the canned storyline they sat and watched, or the narrowly-scripted combat encounter they were led through, they tell their friends about the spontaneous events that THEY made happen. 

Is that really Scampie speaking??

*falls over with shock*

Good post BTW 

What really needs to be explored is the thoughts/feelings resulting from when the player acts instead of just filling in a hole in a finished story. 

what they should really do, is make an action game that's not-entirely-linear, with varied gameplay, for COOP. That way, you play with a few friends and plan (or not) how you play, leading to complex circumstances/interactions. Good AI would also help, if the game's supposed to be setting up interesting stories as opposed to simply arcade-type action.

By not-entirely-linear, I don't mean like MMORPGs or anything like that - I mean like Far Cry, (where there was really only 1 or 2 effective routes at any given time) except less linear (let the player decide to use vehicles or gameplay options for himself more often). 

http://softwarecommunity.intel.com/articles/eng/3978.htm 

I'm not just a pretty face you know. 

People don't tell their friends the next day about the canned storyline they sat and watched, or the narrowly-scripted combat encounter they were led through, they tell their friends about the spontaneous events that THEY made happen.

...or at least, you reasonably feel you made happen. The end of Portal is a great example here, though you don't tell your friends about it, it still felt special to you personally. 

I think one of the things that makes Portal work like that is the escape sequence. You have to make the decision to break out yourself, even though that's really what the designers intend you to do. 

...and then you realised that a) everyone else loved GLaDoS too and b) that GLaDos is an old lady. Brrr, so dirty.

HL2 was too scripted for me, I felt pushed from sequence to sequence all the time. Damn mapping!

Cave Story had a perfectly introduced story in my opinion. No long boring intro sequences with too much information to remember.

But then I think that games to not need to have a story at all. At least certain genres can do very well without. 

respect 

You spelled 'fundamentally' wrong. Your post is null and void. 

You spelled 'fundamentally' wrong.

incorrectly 

... dovetails with Warren Spector's prime directive of game storytelling: what makes games special is that the dialog can go both ways. They don't always have to do that (see games like hl2 or cod4) but the areas where they do (deus ex) is where the fertile ground truly lies.

So what do we all see in Quake, then? :P 

 

for story telling. 

being able to slow monsters down to a crawl or teleporting a few meters in front of you (through monsters)? 

teleport sounds best for me 

but you can only click on monsters. puzzles are about how to get out of a map without running out of monsters to telefrag in the right places. 

...a great idea. 

the gore fountain at each telefrag would be fun too... 

sounds like Redline (c) 1998 with up-to-date graphics, can't wait !!1 

- telefragging scrags in hard-to-reach places
- luring fiends into making leaps across gaps you can't leap yourself 

made a mod like this, where one of the weapons switched your position with that of any monster you hit - pretty awesome, you could make monsters fall in lava and stuff. Your gameplay ideas take the concept a lot further though. 

that is pretty sweet, especially if you have to telefrag a patrolling monster at a certain point on his path, and of course if he sees you he won't keep following the path... treating scraggs like a misc_teleporttrain basically. 

Was kind of done in the Wheel of Time gamef : there was a switch spell, was needed to get to certain areas during the single player game, or during mp, you could jump in a lava pit and quickly switch with an enemy, or also switch when you had multiple homing spells following you, thus they would follow your enemy instead. Was a very nice game mechanic. 

Okay:

"f'thagn."

How is it pronounced? Does it rhyme with "lasagna"? 

can someone give me the hard limits for q1 models? #verts, #faces, #edges?, anything else? 

I noticed some discussion about DZIP in Willem's map release and felt the need to rant, but as I haven't gotten round to playing the map yet I figured it would be rude to do so in that thread.

Why does everybody bother with DZIP? The advantage over more commonly used compression programs is pretty minimal in this day and age [with super fast internet connections and huge hard disks] so it bothers me that people bother to install DZIP at all, especially as it doesn't work on macs or 64x versions of Windows [at least, without reporting a nasty virus in the latter].

Seriously, what's the point? Is it not making an already niché community even more inaccessible? 

I don't watch any demos anymore because I refuse to download and install the absolutely worthless DZip. 

Does anybody have this damn thing mirrored anywhere? czg is pretty shit about keeping websites running (or caring about the people that read them more likely) and I hate having to spend twenty minutes grepping the internet every time someone in #tf wants to make a circle.

I made this in the meantime for pocket reference.
http://lunaran.com/pics/curves1.png 

don't ever build spiral stairs this way:
http://www.katsbits.com/htm/tutorials/editing_tip_spiral_stairs.htm#2 

about uploading 12 MB of worthless first-play demos. I feel a little less self-conscious uploading 1 MB of worthless first-play demos. If I had known you couldn't open .dz files, Text_Fish, I would have provided .zip archives before.

I shall keep the lack of portability of .dz files in mind in the future. 

So I think it's a bit hard for it to suddenly be making the community more inaccessible (and it also works on a mac, though command line only).

I agree it's probably a bit pointless in this day and age. 

What wrong with that way of building stairs Lunaran? As far as I'm aware that's the only way to build spirals that have equidistant steps units. 

mwh - nearly as long as quake. I respect what they do, but don't find it useful. Those who play Q1SP but don't know how to manage the formats basically don't exist. Much.

Lunaran - :| but no. Why is lunsp3 takign so long?

kat - that's probably the worst way of building stairs, trust me on this. Off-grid horrors that will compile, but never how you want. You'll be looking at brushes all over the place that you can't fix in the editor.

dzip is a waste of time for me. It makes things easier in alot of engines, but I prefer to pack dems in 7zip because I'm a cunt. And the filesize is smaller.

Posting drunk after a national holiday. That's not an apology. 

@ ijed: Ah, sounds like your talking about that in relation to *structual* brushwork which it will feck up. I've never had any issues so long as its *detail* flagged which things like that should be for Q3 editing. And "trust me", I know about non-axial brushwork, floating point errors and sparklies thereof ;) 

Hah, that tutorial is brilliant. 

So I'll post a more constructive reply.

Yeah what ijed said, even if you make it detail, it's far from being optimal and will be cut up pretty randomly and in some engines you have no detail brushes (like quake1) so can't get away with such sloppy brushwork.

For spiral staircases, try starting out with a cylinder with a specific ammount of sides (usually something logical, divisble by 4), snap those sides to the grid, then align brushes along it to create your steps (you can use a second smaller cylinder with the same ammount of sides as a central wall too for larger stairs). Edge edit is your friend. 

ZIP would be my preference.

czg's curves are here: http://www.quaddicted.com/stuff/curv_tut.htm 

Eyeballing edge manipulations like that to use as a 'template' has it's own inherant problems especially when using cylinders with more then a dozen or so sides. If you want steps to be *exact* then you have to duplicate and rotate by calculated values. 

"(and it also works on a mac, though command line only). "

It actually doesn't. It's a classic application (aka OS9) and modern Macs won't run it.

I'd love it if we could start using regular ZIP. The demos that guys delivered for Evil Exhumed in ZIP form were awesome and compressed just as well. 

If you work with a small enough grid the steps don't have to be exact, you won't see a difference visually, and the result will be much cleaner.
I've done plenty of pretty complex (much more than 12 sided cylinders) spiral staircases this way, and they compile fine even in quake1. I can tell you that you're stairs would just make q1 qbsp kneel down and start cying in most common cases.

In the end your tutorial is for quake3, so yeah it'll work fine, it's just not very clean. 

Ummm someone remind me, what do I use to zip so I don;t have to use the trial version of Winzip that reminds me I've exceeded the trial limit by 8 decades?? 

12 and 24 sided cylinders are pretty nice and with his ingenious clip-stretch-shear method you can curve very complex geometry. 

7zip is your friend: http://www.7-zip.org/ 

Dzip does work on OS X, because I compiled it, and gave Nolan the executable for the dzip page (that's a PPC binary though), and use it all the time.

So, er, nyah? 

mwh

OK, well, it didn't work for me. So I dunno. Can we not just use standard ZIP files? 

Clean? It's horses for courses Bal, if you're throwing brushwork around to do some interesting designs with stairs (other than a tube with stairs and openings top and bottom) the chances are you're going to cut across a spiral and create nasty floaters at compile time anyway, and that's regardless as to how you made them. So it really is a completely moot point to say that; even using smaller grids isn't a cure-all as it has a tendency to introduce precision errors as you know.

Every method has it's problems, just use whatever you think suits what you're working with and trying to do and how quickly you want it done. Having said that the tute wasn't intended to be read in the context of Q1 level design.

I've updated the tute regardless to take into account what's been discussed here. 

I don't watch any demos anymore because I refuse to download and install the absolutely worthless DZip.

Lame excuse, aguirRe's current engines and (iirc) JoeQuake can playback Dzips like demo files, as long as dzipname = demoname. Place the demo files in ID1 and do playdemo demoname as usual.

(yes it's necessary to rtfm sometimes, but it's worth it as SDA keeps pumping out awesome demos like Stubgaard's fairly recent e3m4_120: http://speeddemosarchive.com/quake/demos/NH/e3m4_120.dz )

Also, aguirRe's 3.09 (current beta) will have even more useful features regarding demo playback.

7zip is good because it's free/stable and the compression rate with large demos is indeed better, but 'installing' Dzip is a matter of 10 seconds... 

"Lame excuse, aguirRe's current engines and (iirc) JoeQuake can playback Dzips like demo files, as long as dzipname = demoname."

Plz add to FitzQuake, kthx! :) 

are on a minimum grid of 4 at the smallest. They were easier to work with, line up with the curve patches for the trim a lot more cleanly, plus the compile-side benefits. I'd post a grid shot but I'm at work.

http://www.lunaran.com/images/maps/lun3dm3_2.jpg

ijed:
Why is lunsp3 takign so long?

because lunsp2 isn't done yet. 

Sorry, moot points again, those are all 'attributes' that can and have been argued for and by proponents of every method there is to make spirals, Quake 3 and beyond. 

Get it here:

http://www.hrimfaxi.dk/diverse/CurveTutorial.zip 

 

where's my... your es pee five?! 

I've read some misconceptions here concerning quake and detail brushes, such as they would require bsp or engine modifications to support. This actually isn't true. There's a set of compilers called "eUtils" that support detail, hint, and skip brushes. Hint brushes are added to the bsp first, and detail brushes last. Simple right? Well I dunno really, I'm no coding guru.

The qbsp looks for brushes grouped into "am_detail" entities.

Two catches: one, vis and light need to be aware of the changes, and such versions are included. Two, there is source, but it's a Carbonized mac app, so maybe not many of you could try it. I use it as my main compiler and they work fine. But it would be interesting to see the features added to the linux-ified bjptools that are being worked on.

It was made by frank "pOx" condello, same guy that did the extras qc mod. http://quake.chaoticbox.com/downloads/equakeutils.sit 

I remember that concept being tossed about (hint added first, detail added last, but they are still part of the bsp structure), and I seem to remember some people saying that the order that brushes are added to the bsp tree really isn't that important (even though conceptually, it seems like it would be.)

I think in radiant at least, any time you select and deselect a brush it gets added to the end of the map file, so you could manually do this sort of thing by selecting/deselecting brushes that you want added last. Not sure if this is that helpful. 

what are the biggest differences between func_walls and detail brushes?
How hard would it be to add an intermediate form of solid geometry to an engine, one that is rendered quite like walls (without the func_wall penalties) but is not part of the bsp somehow (could affect collision hulls somehow, dunno how). (how do you accomplish that I do not have the faintest idea...)
Maybe just generate an entityish class for func_walls only. 

It's not entirely accurate to refer to the "order" that things are "added" to the tree - hint faces have the highest priority for splitting the tree, and afaik details have none. What order the brushes are listed in the map file has nothing to do with anything because split priority is based on brushes' size and shape and angularity. If order mattered you couldn't have major structural leak-stopping brushes "last" because the BSP tree would have been largely finalized already.

An aguire or a lordhavoc would be useful right about now. 

i guess i thought qbsp adds brushes to the tree in the order it finds them in the map file. Didn't know it scanned the entire list of brushes and then optimized the order in any way.

Either way though, a leak plugging brush will plug the leak regardless of the order you add it, assuming there are no precision errors or bugs.

P.S. I'm talking about quake 1, if that's any confusion. 

I'm almost certain that QBSP adds the brushes in the order it finds them in the MAP file. It has to, otherwise overlapping brushes with different textures wouldn't work. The ordering has to be deterministic. 

From my understanding it wouldn't seem right for Qbsp to just take the brushes in order, I always thought he splits everything up according to volume sizes (leaf nodes) to keep them similar (in size), but that's maybe just some misconception I've been dragging along over the years.

And yeah in Quake 2 (unlike in Quake 3) detail and hint are just there to influence qbsp in the right direction, detail brushes are smaller complex forms that you usually don't want to be used for initial splits, while hints are you trying to force qbsp to add a split in some area first.

In Quake 3, Hints work kind of the same afaik, but detail brushes don't split the tree at all, they are completely ignored, I think they are just culled (coplanar faces) and stuck into whatever leafnode they occupy (usually defiend by the caulk stuck around them to avoid leakage).

But anyways, yeah, I would have loved proper detail brushes in Quake 1. =) 

The ordering has to be deterministic.

Super/hard-deterministic to be more precise, but that's hardly a useful pragmatic viewpoint.

Or were you talking about something else? ;) 

Just had a look at the wildcards stuff in wad.cpp ... I cant test that stuff myself, but perhaps the "glob" system call is what you want. Type "man 3 glob" for manpage. Ozkan (uhexen2.sf.net) ported all of the Hexen2 utils to *nix , so that might help too. 

 

thanks for the hint. 

fun at #tf :)

[21:36] <@Bal__> * Added Trinca!*@* to ignore list, should have done ages ago I think
[21:36] <@Bal__> +that
[21:36] <@voodoochopstiks> :D
[21:36] <@Trinca> Bal__ thks!
[21:36] <@Trinca> i´m sick of you bullshit
[21:36] <@Trinca> get a women
[21:36] <@Trinca> stop talking about all 50 games you fucking play
[21:37] <@Trinca> i just play one becouse i want time to FUCK MY WIFE!!!

:)

Trinca(PT) 1 - 0 Bal(FR) 

Clearly it's important to you that Bal still see your scathing retorts (the part where you implied he did not have a girlfriend was particularly fresh - nice job!) because you felt the need to mirror them here. Clearly him ignoring you bothers you, then, and you need some kind of release to feel like you had the last word so you can keep feeling better about yourself.

Is putting down foreigners you've never met in an IRC channel necessary to get through your day? Perhaps there is some reason why you cannot take such pleasure in your day to day life. Are you happy in your marriage? Or do you regret the life you've chosen, feeling trapped in a bitter loveless marriage, away from what you really enjoy, which is apparently your penis?

Or maybe you're just exceedingly fucking immature. Go retire again, I promise you nobody here will miss you, miss your childish ravings about sexuality, or miss your whiny footstamping at the faintest provocation or perceived slight against you.

Go the fuck away. 

did u read any book to write this?

...

ok, go take your goat! 

how I've missed you. 

kekeke, someone was having a bad day at work yesterday.

I am inclined to agree with the majority of Lun's points tho, even if they are written in a particularly aggy style (actually, scratch that, all his points).

I especially like the fact you proved him right by feeling the need to post (yet another) weak retort within an hour of his post despite it being 2am where you are.

And how is literacy (that'd be reading books) a bad thing? I like being both verbose and well read, it improves my mind, allows access to novel (see what I did there ;) points of view and means I can create a more sound argument that 'lololol you readz!' or 'i has sex k!'. (On an aside, reading Bulgakov atm, why I haven't done so before eludes me, but I reccommend is work if you haven't read it)

And for someone who gets to 'fuck his wife' so much, you seem to have a lot of time to check func 30 times a day. This does rather suggest it doesn't take you that much time to fuck your wife, which may be part of the problem...

Of course, the fact your wife just gave birth means you're probably not actually getting any atm (hence the need to defend your sexual prowess so much in unrelated arguments). And even if you were, a swift pint in the burnt down ruins of your old pub isn't really the same as a selection of cocktails in pleasant, modern bars. (Yes, that was an analogy for your wife's torn up and tired out pussy vs the wide selection of attractive tail being single provides) 

The level of intelligence in some people here is so high that makes me cry… but guess they are not much susses full with women’s because they spent more time playing all kind of games instead of getting out of home and get a proper social life. Oh well but this is just me guessing i might be wrong and you are pure machos! And play tf2 with a girl making a blowjob at same time!

:\ lol get a grip… 

"(Yes, that was an analogy for your wife's torn up and tired out pussy vs the wide selection of attractive tail being single provides)"

As classy as that was, I feel obliged to point out that now you're going down the exact same road you were just decrying. The high road is looking awfully empty these days. 

kek, yeh, I know, but without gross hypocrisy my life would be exceptionally dull ;p 

Also, the kekeke thing isn't really working in your favor. 

I like cheese. 

shout critic at me, don't spare embarassing yourself with stupid remarks:

http://www.quaddicted.com/?p=205 (no direct linking to avoid crawling) 

As for critic..

* The background color in tr.light contrasts too much with the one in tr.dark, making it hard to focus on the table contents.

* The level name used as the page subheader should be the same size as the rating. Right now it doesn't stand out enough.

* The pink border line placed under glossary items is kind of iffy, especially with the text getting underlined upon hover.

* Some things feel as if they take more space than they should. The MD5 signature definitely needs to use a smaller font, and so does the "Files Included" table at the bottom of the upload information. Using a different font face in those elements wouldn't hurt, either.

* The BSP/PAK/etc checklist should be a table rather than a single line, but that's just me.

* The links in the navigation sidebar on the left should have different means of being emphasised on hover - how about making it become white text on a pink background? 

So you're going to have to convert every single one of those .html files by hand?

Pity. 

Excellent feedback, onetruepurple. Thanks!

Lun: I might be special but I ain't that stupid. All I will have to change is the XSL stylesheet. :) 

Just thought I would share this with you all.

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/fail-owned-christmas-candle-fail.jpg?w=341&h=500 

when funny pictures didn't need text over them? 

do people even try to make a connection between the image and the choice of stale-meme they paste onto it? 

The guy adding the caption failed...