#17404 posted by JneeraZ on 2009/09/11 20:33:24
That would be cool. Have an FTP somewhere that people can drop off stuff they don't want to finish and let other people pick them over if they want, or finish them up.
Willem
#17405 posted by R.P.G. on 2009/09/11 21:56:17
You have no idea how many people started working on an old scrap of mine and never finished it. :) Hell, metl and I still haven't finished and we've been "working" on it for ages!
RPG:
#17406 posted by metlslime on 2009/09/11 23:28:33
i'm still "working" on it, never fear!
#17407 posted by Zwiffle on 2009/09/11 23:29:13
Is it sm69 because the 69 is supposed to be like a symbol of infinite regress?
Zwiffle:
#17408 posted by metlslime on 2009/09/11 23:33:23
the "69" was because it was such a high number, it implied the map would take a really long time to finish. Of course now we are in the 3-digits for speedmaps, so the joke doesn't work. Maybe sm500 or something.
Or we can say it's the infinte regress thing...
#17409 posted by Spirit on 2009/09/11 23:41:20
You are "working" on some 69 for ages and cannot finish?
It Should 9000.
#17410 posted by necros on 2009/09/11 23:59:58
clearly.
OVER NINE THOU...
#17411 posted by Zwiffle on 2009/09/12 00:01:31
wait, no it isn't. nm
Hmm
#17412 posted by R.P.G. on 2009/09/12 01:27:54
I thought the joke is that metl and I are actually 69ing instead of working on the map?
#17413 posted by Zwiffle on 2009/09/12 01:35:06
RPG stop being so juvenile. Gosh.
Hmm
#17414 posted by nonentity on 2009/09/12 01:44:13
RPG juvenile? Never!
Just Wondering
#17415 posted by R.P.G. on 2009/09/12 04:16:10
Does anyone ever put thought into making their maps/mods/whatever accessible? And I mean to people with disabilities, not necessarily newbies.
Hmm
#17416 posted by nonentity on 2009/09/12 04:59:48
What?
No, seriously. What?
How would that even work, surely it's down to the control interface/device rather than the design of a given map?
Interface Vs. Content Design
#17417 posted by R.P.G. on 2009/09/12 05:41:27
Let's consider the case of websites.
A blind person may have a text-to-speech device that reads the website. This is all fine and good, but what happens when part of the site's content is an image? And I don't mean a screenshot of a game. You'll notice that some people will have email addresses stored in an image to prevent web crawlers from picking them up and adding the address to a spam database. But what happens if there is no alt text for the image? The blind person has no way to email the author of the site because the screen reader can't read the address. This could potentially be a big issue, especially if this email address is the only means to apply for a job. The employer is no longer providing an equal opportunity for all potential applicants.
For websites, the list goes on and on.
Navigation items should be in lists. Screen readers offer the ability to skip over lists, so if a blind person doesn't want to navigate to a different page yet he/she can skip over the menu and proceed to the content.
Links should avoid using the same link text as a previous link on the same page. When someone is cycling through the links on a page, this makes it easier to identify what is being linked to instead of relying on nearby contextual clues.
So clearly the interface is important (in the above examples, that would be the screen reader), but the design and implementation of the content is also very important. Even if someone is using a common interface, such as a stock installation of FireFox, you should still consider content design and avoid red text on a green background since red-green color blindness is a relatively common phenomenon.
I Don't Know Enough
#17418 posted by ijed on 2009/09/12 06:33:09
About the speech tools used, apart from that they're pretty useless (or were) on lots of pronounciations.
Context plz?
What would constitute a decent setup outside of web design?
Don't Worry About It
#17419 posted by grahf on 2009/09/12 08:16:37
It won't matter once we all have occipital jacks, so let's just work on developing those, ok?
Map Swap
#17420 posted by Drew on 2009/09/12 08:32:20
There should be a central map scrap hub at quaddicted. I'd sure as hell contribute!
There Is Audio Quake
#17421 posted by Spirit on 2009/09/12 08:52:25
http://www.agrip.org.uk/
I never got it to run though.
Random Thought
#17422 posted by Jago on 2009/09/12 09:29:53
I shall dedicate this weekend to playing through the entire original Quake on hard or nightmare. Been quite a few years since I last did that.
Afterwards, perhaps Scourge of Armagon (missionpack1) as well.
RPG:
#17423 posted by metlslime on 2009/09/12 11:16:23
I could see Accessibility being a more relevant concept to engine design rather than content design, since the engine controls how people interface with the content.
But, Quake is more a medium of art rather than a medium for conveying information; as such the delivery is what matters. Accessibility is about delivering the message differently so it's available to more people, but the message without the artistic delivery misses the point of art.
So for example, gl_picmip could be considered an accessibility feature, it certainly makes it easier to "play" the game but makes it harder to experience the art of the game.
I can also see people re-mapping the controls to different hardware if they have some physical problem that makes it hard to use the mouse and keyboard. The game already supports this too, it's more a question of what trackball, joystick, etc. is available that actually works well for people.
Hmm
#17424 posted by nonentity on 2009/09/12 13:14:09
There should be a central map scrap hub at quaddicted. I'd sure as hell contribute!
+1
Yes, Please
#17425 posted by Spirit on 2009/09/12 13:50:05
Send them in. Public Domain (such like "Do anything you want with it, giving credit would be nice" (but you don't have to)) or GPL only, I will reject anything else.
I Am German So There Must Be Rules And Order
#17426 posted by Spirit on 2009/09/12 13:52:11
ZIP. Named like the included .map file or scraps_yournick.zip. All filenames lowercase. Include at least one textfile explaining at least the license. Name that textfile like the zip (name it readme.txt and I will stab you with a Quake rune).
#17427 posted by Spirit on 2009/09/12 13:54:28
Oh wait, how about a _src suffix for the zip and txt? That sounds more reasonable.
Bottom line, make sure the file can be extracted to a maps directory without overwriting anything there.
More On Interface Vs. Content Design
#17428 posted by R.P.G. on 2009/09/12 18:25:03
So how should one address audio cues? This is an admixture of level and game design. In Quake 3, when your player is hit you hear an audio cue, a splatter of blood in the area of the screen closest to the source of the damage, the player's head in the HUD turns in the direction of the damage, etc. However, that's clearly game design and outside the control of a mapper. On the other hand, several times the only cue--or the most predominant cue--I've seen about how to proceed in a map is an audio cue, such as a strange sound coming from behind a wall that you must break down.
And then there's spawning enemies behind the player. For normal audio players, this can be a sneaky tactic, but the player is indeed warned about what is happening because of the audio cue. A deaf player will have no warning whatsoever, and for shambler attacks this can be quite devastating and thus frustrating because they had no warning for such a high penalty.
For more general level design accessibility concerns, we can talk about maps that require dexterous movements, such as curve jumping, strafe jumping, or generally a long jump that requires perfect timing. Someone who has no visual or auditory impairment but who does have general motor control difficulties may not be able to complete the map, even though the original Quake maps didn't have such a barrier.
I certainly agree that for comprehensive accessibility you would need to begin from the ground up with the engine, then the game code, then the game content. But I don't think that saying Quake is primarily about art is sufficient justification for not making simple accommodations. My first complaint with that argument is that it seems to imply that the gameplay is not as important as the art. IMO, the map should be just as fun to play whether it's monochrome or full color. And if you build a map (or game) and then take out all the amazing visuals only to find that it's no longer worth playing, then you're doing something wrong and I would no longer classify your product as a "game." In that case, at the core there was no playing; it was just navigating inside a painting or a movie set, possibly with some frustrating elements added.
Note: I'm playing the devil's advocate here. I've only heard of one person in the Quake community who had accessibility issues (he was deaf), and probably anyone who is still playing Quake has found some way to adapt to it. Everyone else has probably moved on. On the other hand, the response so far indicates that in general no one here has been thinking of accessibility issues, which are becoming an increasing concern in the computer world in general, so I'm very much interested in discussing this stuff with anyone who is interested. Please post your thoughts!
|