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I got totally beat there. GG! 
Kind Of An Out-of-left-field Question, But... 
...anyone know of a good archive of RAMSHACKLE (the site that gave the TrenchBroom editor its name)?

The link that Frib posted in the TrenchBroom thread is dead and apparently intentionally excluded from And any other bits of RAMSHACKLE that I can find around the web (e.g. at are incomplete. Probably defeated by the fact that the site originally used a Java app for navigation.

Even the coverage of the original site is missing most images and probably other stuff:*/*

Got an urge to revisit it and it's kind sad if it is really permanently gone. 
New Enforcer Model 
Some Jokes From Reagan 
looks like the Breen of Star Trek ukyou 
im fine with it 
Better Have A Beast Machine When Playing Quake Champions 
because fire rate is linked to frame rate
Q:C is unfortunately sort of a dumpster fire on the coding side due to the outsourced development, which is a royal shame because the actual gameplay is typical fun Quake but there's so many naggling performance and networking issues plus a slowwwwwwwww balance change schedule. 
Preach had mentioned on his wordpress page that QME has an "undo" feature.
Preach, I've tried ctrl-z in the 3d view and it doesn't work on either version 3.1 or 3.0. How does this work??

Here's a link to the page where he mentions it:

The undo is for drawing on the skin only, other changes aren't tracked. It works for me on 3.1 
Brutal Quake? Qore! _ BETA 
While browsing through news pages about quake in Steam, I chanced upon this news about a gore mod for quake, which is akin to the well known Brutal Doom mod for classic Doom and Doom 2, stylishly named Qore:

The mod itself can be downloaded here:

If you are interested in pumping up the gore factor in your quake game, and this also somehow went previously beneath your radar like me, then give it a swirl!

(Moved to GA because it seems to be a work in progress mod) 
Thanks Preach!
It'd be great see a program as simplistic and specific to Quake modeling as QME, but with more features, like an undo for geometry. Get on that please, somebody. 
Brian Hook Discussing The Quake 3 Rendering Engine At GDC In 1999 
Q3 And All Games From Q3 Suck Dick 
How Do I Add A Keyvalue To An Entity? 
I want to add a gravity keyvalue to worldspawn. 
Bunny Hopping 
Been trying to learn how to bhop properly in NetQuake engines like QuakeSpasm and Mark V. Mark V has a handy "scr_showspeed" cvar, so I've been experimenting on it.

In QuakeWorld engines like ezQuake it's so easy, I just do a circle jump, then release +forward and keep on jumping while strafing and moving mouse in the air. I can reach 700+ ups no problem. But in QS and MV I seem to lose speed with a couple of jumps, even if I try to press +forward with each jump. Is the NQ friction too high or what? All I can do is 400 something ups at best, which doesn't seem meaningful.

What's the trick, if there's one? I mostly want to do speedruns of modern map packs, hence the the interest in the technique. 
bunnyhopping in qw is possible because you can avoid being on the ground at any point - there is no friction and thus theoretically no real upper bound to max speed (up so sv_maxvelocity of about 2000 anyway).

nq keeps you grounded for at least one frame each jump, so you're till at least partially subject to friction, limiting max speeds. 
Then how come the QDQ guys move so fast? 
here is the quake speedrunning discord

If you want your times to be officially accepted by the community and want them posted on or similar you pretty much need to use neaquake or joequake. That is pretty much the standard.

Yes, the difference in protocols between the engines means you can get more speed. Watch some of the streams from beehivekay:

The tricks he does aren't possible in "normal" engines. He doesn't want to set times, he just does it for fun / practice.

So I guess it depends on what you want to get out of it. 
Quaek Rulez 
newhouse_: how does it feel to have over 100 quake maps this year?

CustomShambler: it feels like making love to a beautiful woman.....

CustomShambler: ....WHO HAS 100 DIFFERENT TYPES OF AWFUL S.T.D.s
Wut? We're still at 94 yeah?... don't jinx it! 
@iriyap Bunnyhopping 
I believe that the main diff is that QW runs at a ticrate of 0.01388~ or 1/72fps where as standard (net)Quake runs at a ticrate of 0.1 10fps (modern servers online run at 0.05 or even 0.025 so this affects the physics timings. As Spike said netQuake has longer times for the physics to apply to the player. Try lowering your ticrate to 0.0133 in Qspasm and see if your bunny-hopping speeds increase. I've always been curious how speed runners achieve QW like physics at normal ticrates. IMHO they should have the visible spedometers on screen or at least show their settings. 
Why The Crap 
Is physics tied to a frame/tic rate? Shouldn't this be framerate independent and calculate based on time since last frame? 
>framerate independent
>time since last frame

Don't be naive. 
D4's Weapon Pickup Animation Sorcery 

A fairly seamless transition from worldmodel to viewmodel. How do you even do that? My guess is that when the animation is initiated and the player position/camera is locked in, the gun and arms are worldmodels as the gun is picked up (maybe??). After it gets picked up it's briefly lowered out of view. When it's raised up again, both the arms and gun are different models (now viewmodels). Pretty neat. I'd like to know how they actually do it. 
Saturn Quake Findings And Musings 
Turns out the Saturn version of Quake has completely different secret levels, which are actually pretty cool. E.g. one of them is a series of huts and walkways on top of huge trees and another one lets you pit monsters in a boxing ring. Those levels make some interesting and clever use of vanilla Quake assets.

Here are the videos of all four Saturn exclusive levels:
Hell's Aerie
Watery Grave

(There's also a test map of sorts on the disk resembling a modern day apartment chock full of pop culture references and inside jokes.)

How cool it would be to play those levels on the PC with proper controls and a framerate higher than 20 FPS?

Now, the Saturn version of Quake runs on a completely different engine (supposedly, the so called "Slave Driver" engine which Lobotomy Software used for PowerSlave/Exhumed) and all the levels are actually low precision 3D models in the custom LEV format. Rich Whitehouse has reverse-engineered the format and his model viewer/converter, Noesis, can export the Saturn Quake level geometry + textures to other 3D model formats, such as OBJ.

I was thinking about trying to convert the levels into the standard BSP format, as all the tricks used in those levels should be possible to do in a standard Quake engine (apart from maybe the rain effects), but what would be the best way to import the OBJ etc 3D data into a Quake editor such as TrenchBroom or Radiant? Anybody interested in working together on such a project? 
Technically Super Impressive Though 
I think the 3d in Saturn-Quake reminds me alot of early NDS games, with the chopped up samples and the very crude way of doing 3d graphics. I like it. 
I'd Just Like To Add A Vote Of Confidence 
to the impulse behind this; a similar impulse was behind Quaddicted and I'm starting to think people might be looking at archives of Quaddicted decades from now. It would definitely be interesting from a "historical perspective" to see these levels which I didn't even know existed before. 
The OBJ-2-MAP utility doesn't seem to produce anything that can be loaded in TrenchBroom, so I might just reconstruct the levels manually brush by brush (unless somebody's got a better idea?). I'd need to fix various texture alignment/tiling issues anyway, so this might be a better way to do it. The textures are the same size as the PC version, so it's very easy to guess the size of each brush. Somehow I've got a feeling that these levels were originally compiled from standard MAP files, because the geometry structure is essentially the same as stock Quake levels. We might never know for sure, I guess.

Here's a screenshot of the first Saturn exclusive map (Purgatorium) using Rich Whitehouse's model viewer. It's a pretty cool vanilla-ish map, isn't it. 
Here's two ideas you might try, if you haven't already.

1 - Try converting the map in smaller pieces. Maybe the OBJ2MAP program doesn't handle many complicated shapes at the same time.

2 - Open the resulting .map file in a text editor. There may till be parts that you can copy and paste into Trenchbroom. Unless I remember wrong, you can copy and paste geometry into TB via the clipboard.

Either method might save you time compared to creating every brush from scratch. Worth trying at least. 
If you give me maps in obj and WAD with textures used in this maps, I can export it to editable MAP format. 
Feel free to add me on Steam, and I'll gladly share what I've got so far. Been working on one of the maps in Trenchboom and it's shaping up rather nicely.

But basically, you extract the maps using Noesis which you can get here. To get the original Saturn Quake files, do a Google search for "quake saturn iso", should be the first result. The textures are included inside the LEV files and Noesis can convert them to a number of formats including BMP and LMP. 
should be able to give you a Valve format map with texturing intact. I would then run it though my qbsp's "-convert quake" option to convert it to a map file with vanilla texturing for editing in TrenchBroom.

There are different algorithms in OBJ2MAP for converting faces to brushes, I think there was a "slabs" one that extrudes every face into a brush.. that might be a good choice? The other one is "spikes" which makes a pyramid out of each face which is probably not what you want for level geometry.

The full article is paywalled but here's a lot of words about Quake! 
That is a lot of words indeed. While it's never fun to read about the various conflicts that happened at id, it's great to see some words from people like American McGee and Sandy Petersen who- outside of dedicated Quakers, obviously- are too often forgotten in favor of the two Johns.

Side note: is that a possible DM3 or E2M1 on McGee's monitor? 
is the one I admire the most. 
Someone From Asia? 
I'm pretty sure I saw someone posting here from Asia not long ago. Tried to reach the guy, but couldn't find the Asian IP. Where are you, man? 
You should try translating your message to Asian if you're hoping for a response 
Shambler In Thailand 
What's With The Ogres? 
Are they slaves/indentured servants to Quake? I wonder, because the rest of the monsters seem to be undead or from the Elder world, whereas the ogres seem to have a looser tie to Quake.

I know there was some lore in Nehahra regarding the ogres, but I can't remember most of it.

I feel that they're being controlled by the stronger enemies, sort of like the alien slaves in Half Life.

What are your thought? 
So the deal is that some people within id wanted to make a fps fantasy themes, very much like the RPGs they were playing at the time, but they ran out of time and had to release what they had.

The ogre is probably a remnant of that. 
Long Read Indeed, But Great! 
Before time the Elder Ogres were savage medieval warriours, that had nothing to do with guns and belong in earlier centuries. They were far more on the corner of the magic, that HellKnight attend. They were relative weak in weapons, but commenly strong shielded with their axes.

As the armour of the time quakers brought other skills like shells and nails, the ogres obtained these stronger weapons and became smaller. Guarded with their machine saws and grenades they've become a strange relick from elder time.

They lack technical skill and since they lost their shield they only worry about grenades and cells. 
Ogres are creatures of chaos whose lack-of-purposeness is closely aligned with Shub-Niggurath's nihilistic plot to overthrow all life. 
Looser Tie??? 
The ogre is iconic. It is one of the bread-and-butter, heart-and-soul enemies in Quake.

I believe Madfox is onto something.. although I think hammers and not axes makes more sense. They seem to be the engineers in the Quake realm. Ever resourceful, stealing the weapons of their enemies, smithing their own. 
first time i saw an ohre i thought he was csrrying a hammer
with his shirt he looks like a blacksmith 
At one point the Ogres had horns and I read somewhere that their grenade launcher was a nailgun unless I'm remembering wrong. Which probably explains the nailgun Ogres in some mods.

It's probably not a stretch to imagine that they had axes instead of chainsaws at another point. 
Din: See John Romero's own Twitter

R00k: The Ogre is clearly inspired by Leatherface from the Texas Chainsaw Massacre movie series. His grenade launcher is even shaped like a hammer which is the second main weapon that Leatherface uses. Source

So, at some points during the development, the ogre had:
- horns
- shield
- axe
- hammer
- nailgun
- grenade launcher

And the game manual also mentions him carrying a sack of grenades. 
sack = backpack that the ogre drops, I guess 
IIRC, the player's Axe weapon comes from an earlier Ogre model. Probably that's why it's so gritty and covered in blood unlike the other weapons.

Also, the Ogre is still holding a nailgun in his final model. That tiny weapon is way too small to fit even a single grenade, much less launch it. They must've switched fron nails to grenades because dodging nails is rather hard and would feel too much like hitscan. 
the Ogre is still holding a nailgun in his final model. That tiny weapon is way too small to fit even a single grenade

Well, its design was based on realistic nailguns then, instead of being based on the nailguns that the player carries. This would also explain why it looks like a hammer. And I also agree with this after looking at the ogre's gun skin - that's definitely not a hammer. 
Look at that ogre! No wonder the manual says he's 9ft tall! Looks scary awesome. 
Well, the player never gets to use a single barrel nailgun, so we could assume that's what it looks like.

Here's the Ogre model skin:

The two strips on right must've been used for his horns. 
Those screenshots are vertically stretched.

Here's them with the correct aspect ratio
Wasn't Me Who Posted Those, But... 
I was actually replying to #29850 in my last reply.

Here's the original source for these screenshots
Yes, and I just corrected the image aspect of those screenshots to 4:3 square pixels, since Quake was developed for 4:3 CRT monitors with non-square pixels. 
Monkeying Around In Darkplaces 
day scene
night scene (this one's cooler)

I was watching some Sea of Thieves gameplay this evening and felt compelled to play around in DP/q3map2. I grabbed a couple textures from google and slapped these together. Granted there isn't much going on in those shots, but performance is pretty good (around 400 fps @ 1080p).

I'd like to make a pretty, cheerful and humorous adventure game someday. All this time in gloomy crypts and mournful ruins has me longing for some levity :/ 
that nighttime skybox looks cool, the clouds are very stylish/cartoony. 
I'd Like To Make A Pretty, Cheerful And Humorous Adventure Game Someda 
Brightly lit egyptian / ikwhite theme Q1 SP full of murderous monsters and brutal carnage?? 
Both Of Those Look Very Cool 
@metl - yeah, it's sweet. I think I got it and some others from the unity asset store for like $5.

@shambler - I was thinking more along the lines of a 'pirate' themed, semi open world shoot n' loot with a Blizzard-esque aesthetic. This is actually something I've wanted to do for a while now.

@nitin - I think so too. I'm a sucker for bright colors and video game water. 
So Assassins Creed Black Flag meets Torchlight 2 from an FPS perspective. Something for your forthcoming game engine..... 
Just Sayin' 
I'd play the shit out of a Quake map pack / TC in a cartoon fantasy style like Torchlight or other lighthearted RPG's.

I think hand painted textures like this would work pretty well: 
Go for it. Seems that whatever you touch turns to awesome. Looking good. 
@shambler - TL2's light rpg elements would fit well in an old school fps with a little more streamlining imo.

@iriyap - same here.

@qmaster - thank you, good sir! 
About The Ogres... 
Looking at the ogre art/models above I am reminded of a custom ogre that is Madfox's excellent Fourfeather:

The new ogre in this map does seem to resemble these models, I wonder is it an original or are these models available somewhere - Madfox? I'm going to guess he made it because of all the other custom stuff in the map (Bender!)

@killpixel - looks awesome. For some reason the art style in those videos reminds me of the Rayman universe. 
To answer my own question, it seems that in the readme for Fourfeather the ogres are based on the ones in QuakeTest with some modification. So it is indeed a model of an alternative ogre design. A cool piece of Quake history. 
Merry Christmas 
Hope everyone is well, has a full belly and some nice presents I’m good company. 
In Good Company 
God dammit. 
Good Company To All Of You! <3 
SleepwalkR, You'll Always Be The Goodest Of Company. 
Happy Holidays! 
SleepwalkR, You'll Always Be The Goodest Of Company. 
Happy Holidays! 
Happy Holidays. Thx for all the hard work on TB! A gift all year round. 
Happy Mass All 
are these models available somewhere

Yes, they are. I reassembled some files together and left it on Quaketastic. For defense they needed the Rubicon files, so it's a bit hard to extract them.
It's allso the one that's used in QuakeReMake.

Quake 2: Sonic Mayhem 
Quake 2: Sonic Mayhem 
rejected here because there's no info about what it is at all. need screens and short description at least. 
The day scene is awesome. The night scene isn't as impressive for me, but it has a more consistent visual style. 
What Happened To Nonentity 
it's been awhile since his last visit this place 
Why Does Doom Attract More New Players? 
I don't mean this as a post to stir things up. It's a genuine question. Is it purely down to Doom being simpler to map for?

I love both games but I've often wondered why Quake just doesn't get the same level of newcomers even though the game itself is probably more influential in the industry... 
How Many Layers Of Mapping Are You On 
Simplicity is probably a big part of it. Figure that to get a basic Doom map from the editor to playing in-game, you need maybe one or two programs total, you can make the whole thing from the top view drawing walls and floors and doors, and you play it by dragging the .wad onto the game of your choice. With Quake you have at bare minimum four separate executable files- map editor, qbsp, light, and vis- with the latter three either requiring an editor that can auto-compile by filling out the paths for the tools, a fifth dedicated tool to act as a GUI (like Necros's compiling GUI), or running them all through the command line which is just silly (even though that's how it was done back in the day).

Then once you get a hang of the tools themselves, the world of brush based mapping can be confusing to a newcomer if they're used to Doom's dedicated floors/walls/etc, and despite the incredible amount of flexibility even Quake's basic map system gives compared to Doom's 2.5D (read: not requiring source ports or hacks for completely basic stuff like rooms over rooms or sloped surfaces- when everything counts as just a plain brush face, there's no floor/ceiling nonsense!), they then get to learn about fun things like using light entities instead of fullbright sectors, what leaks are and why their map is running so slow, scripting with triggers, relays and counters, and so on.

So then after all that you've decided instead of just map making, you want to delve into full-on modding, new enemies, weapons, what have you, and you discover there's nothing here but QuakeC which- while again, is arguably more powerful than Doom's various script types and infinitely more versatile as it isn't sourceport-dependent- requires, well, learning QuakeC. Then for actually getting visual representations of your snazzy new gun/monster/what have you, it's time to learn 3D modeling and track down all the tools and limitations required to make your project fit into Quake's ancient model and animation system, there's no fudging around in MS Paint for an hour kit-bashing someone else's sprites to make your very own pixelly masterpiece.

There's also the matter of popularity, which is a self-fueling thing like an engine dieseling after you cut the spark- while breaking 100 maps in a year is a milestone for a smaller community like func_ and the related Q1SP communities, Doom's modding community is staggeringly large, and people who want to make something for a wider playerbase- be it because they want the recognition or just wanting more people to be able to experience their work- will naturally be drawn to the game that already has a large base. It doesn't help that Doom has been basically 'memed to death' (for lack of a better term) ranging from endless agitating skellington 'jokes' to "But can it run Doom?" for every toaster oven, VR headset and digital wristwatch in existence, while Quake has always been kind of a black sheep outside Quakers themselves due to the pretty darn big differences between games and how- much like UT99/UT2004- Quake players seem to always be at each other's throat about why Your Favorite Quake actually sucks and why My Favorite Quake is the best game ever made, with the Quake series as a whole obviously going on to gain fame as a multiplayer franchise, and Q1/Q2 SP left in the dust to be forever shat upon by Doom players angry the double barrel shotgun can't kill an Ogre in one shot.

tl;dr duum is for brainlets, play more quake 
Doom attracts sprite artists. Quake doesn't. 
Job Offer In The Jobs Thread 
Guys, Skiffy posted a real job offer for level designers in the Jobs thread. That thread gets spam so often that people sometimes don't bother looking. But that one is for real. 
Thoughts On Centerprint Print Text? 
For locked doors and such. I like its unambiguity but it's not very elegant and feels too separate from the world. I would prefer a simple sound effect to convey the message but fear that's not clear enough... 
Center Print Icon? 
Less localization to do? 
@Hipnotic Rogue 
"why Quake just doesn't get the same level of newcomers Doom"

Great question. Simple answer.

Doom maps? They can all coop can't they?

Yeah, that's why. You can coop Doom. You can coop Half-Life with svenmod.

No coop support and none of the mappers here except the legendary ones (metslime, czg, necros, tronyn, distrans, scragbait, pulsar) would even know how to make a map that could coop.

DarkPlaces can coop. FTE can coop. Mark V can coop (ask Gunter).

See the thing is coop support is really, really, really hard because you have to know about networking too.

If you don't have any coop users and plenty of single player users that are quite happy, how would it ever get on your radar to learn how it works? 
It is both a technical issue and a lack of support at the same time, in my opinion: there is no support or advertising because there is no demand for it, and there is no demand or advertising because there is no support.

There is also the part that MP communities consider cooperative to be more like SP and don't pay it much attention to it, and SP communities don't play MP so care even less about coop, and both sides are a bit isolated between them with only Quakeone as more or less common ground. Don't know in detail how it is on Doom but they seem to be closer together.

So cooperative, even for ''dummies'', on Quakespasm as cooperative is seen as SP and its considered to be SP's flagship engine, to make it popular would be good. And second, how about Daz or another one that have enough popularity making videos of Quake SP maps make a cooperative play-through? That would help a lot with it. 
Teaser :

Looks faaarking fantastic. Proper dark fantasy (dare I say even Dark Souls-esque) vibe and setting with some meaty looking combat and magic powers?

Hell yes. 
Hey Now 
Some of us specifically add features to our maps to make it coop friendly.

Coop is a huge part of what makes a game compete. Only one of my top 5 games doesn't have coop. Only backsliding lame game companies don't do coop. 
Whoa Whoa Whoa Whoa!!! 
Did I just see like 4 or 5 new maps pop up...crap what are we up to now for the map total of 2017?!? This is great! 
Yeah, Ive neglected coop spawns in pretty much all of my maps. I should start including them.

I have considered doing a coop ONLY map at some point. I loved Portal 2 coop and I'd probably reflect on what made that game fun(to me) and implement some of those ideas into a coop map. 
Qmaster - Quite Possibly, Go Play And Comment! 
i think i remembered to put a coop spawn in my xmasjam map, but i'm also pretty sure that it would be obscenely easy to get locked out of the final area unless both players are together before they run in... Oops. 
Maybe the next map I make will require coop - press 2 buttons at once sorta gimmick :p 
Happy Quake Year From OTP's Geekery: 
I've considered that as well. less localization is nice but it ultimately suffers from the same issue as text I think. Maybe lights (not the common red/green combo, but something else) + a sound effect. surely that's clear enough? 
Quakemash Alpha Release 0.001 
Hi there, This is all of quake stitched together into a single map.

Info : unzip this into your root quake folder, the zip contains an id1 dir with a maps folder containing the map.

I recommend these settings for best fun playtimes :

r_shadow_shadowmapping_useshadowsampler 0

r_shadow_shadowmapping_filterquality 0

r_shadow_shadowmapping_bordersize 0

Testing :
Darkplaces : recommended engine to run on.

fteqw : try with sv_bigcoords 1 , if audio echos , try switching sound devices.

quakemash : , set sv_protocol 999

Your Mileage may vary , I am hoping to release this to mainly do bug testing and fixes. Also if anyone feels like writing some qc to get stuff like gravity working there is a basic to crazy feature list outlined on the main github page.

Thanks to LadyHavoc and Spoike for helping me test it out. 
I've been waiting for someone to do this since I played the merged Beyond Belief.

A half-hearted attempt at getting this working in quakespasm was unsuccessful. Whenever this works in QS I'll be checking this out! 
Andrew Smith started up a Twitter thread about Quake mapping and John Carmack is involved now talking about QBSP and various timings. Fun if you're into that sort of thing. :) 
Qbsp Compile Times 
The bottleneck used to be vis, then light. Then these awesome people named Tyrann and ericw made the tools threaded and more efficient. Now Qbsp is the bottleneck (unless you use bounce and extra on light).

Is qbsp threaded? Could it be?

I usually get very fast compile times anyways. Does func_detail improve Qbsp time? 
Qbsp is the bottleneck

Since when? 
Then these awesome people named Tyrann and ericw made the tools threaded and more efficient.
*waves hand* Hey, I started it! 
Good god, searching back for the original thread ...

2009?! Jesus wept, I'm getting old ... 
Is qbsp threaded? Could it be?
It's not currently.

The bulk of time in Q1 qbsp tools is spent is CSGFaces: it clips every brush against every other brush (i.e. an O(n^2) algorithm, so the qbsp run time will be proportional to the number of brushes squared).

The solution I have in mind is upgrading to quake 2's qbsp tool (backporting it to support Q1). That eliminates the slow CSGFaces function, has multithreading support built in, and it should be more robust.
(Q1's has this weird design where it converts the brushes into faces, chops them against each other, builds a BSP tree, and then re-generates the leaf contents types by looking at the faces. This is how you can get the player falling through solid floors in some cases; the fact that a volume is solid/empty/etc is only carried through the compilation process in a "accidental" way that is prone to being lost.) 
You could probably do the 3 hull generations on their own threads? Not sure if that would save any time or not ... 
I missed that stage in compiler evolution. I jumped straight from Bengt Jardrup's ol' tools to Tyrutils. Sorry Jne...willemZ.

@ericw that sounds awesome! 
Sorry to be dramatic about it. I'll be on my fainting couch if anyone needs me. 
for Quake 2 compiler. That would be a bigger improvement than any other in the last years: i made maps almost breaking several Quake 2 limits and never had to wait more than five or six minutes for a full compile. That's unthinkable in Quake even when keeping it on the original limits, going heavy on func_detail and surface lights.

Qbsp is the bottleneck

When? In which cases? I'm intrigued. Vis is still the highest time consuming one in all the maps i make by a large margin, even when i don't use func_details or go really heavy on lights (3-10 per source). 
When You Have An 8 Core CPU 
And a map the size of texas. 
Q2 Compile 
The solution I have in mind is upgrading to quake 2's qbsp tool (backporting it to support Q1)

That's sounds awesome. Beyond better compile times, would a Q2-based compile set the stage for any other new features that could be introduced down the line? (in the vein of things like func_detail, which we have now of course) 
I feel like most of the potential features are already implemented (not sure if you saw the detail variants I added last summer: link), so a migration to q2 qbsp code would be mostly speed / stability. I'd want to port over all of those current features though. 
(not sure if you saw the detail variants I added last summer: link)

Yes, I discovered those a few days ago - they sound awesome :) 
Help With Key Bindings 
Which topic should I use for help with key bindings? 
I'm trying to create a toggle for r_wateralpha "1" and r_wateralpha "0.5" 
I Don't Think You Can Toggle A Non-binary Value 
you'd have to bind each to a separate key. binding a toggle looks like this, btw: bind x "toggle r_showtris" 
You could use the bind-that-rebinds-itself sort of technique. E.g.

alias w1 "r_wateralpha 1; bind k w05"
alias w05 "r_wateralpha 0.5; bind k w1"
r_wateralpha 0.5
bind k w1 
Johnny Law 
that's a useful technique, haven't seen that before. 
bind k "cycle r_wateralpha 1, 0.5" 
Thanks. Also when using r_wateralpha "0.5", assuming the map supports transparent water, should r_novis be set to 1 or 0? I'm using QuakeSpasm. 
Maiden: About Wateralpha And Novis 
"r_novis" should pretty much always be "0" (i.e. off) -- which is the default anyway, so basically, don't tinker with it. This is why:

What r_novis does, is to tell the engine to ignore vis data, which specify which parts of the map are visible to the player at any given time.

Vis (short for visibility) saves the engine from having to draw the entire map at all times (which is a waste of resources and, especially on large maps and slower computers, can slow the game down). If a map has not been designed and compiled with transparent water in mind, then the water blocks visibility, and whatever is below or above the water (from the player's perspective) is not drawn. Simply setting r_wateralpha to a value lower than 1 will not magically make the water transparent -- in Quakespasm you'll get some ugly visual artifacts.

By switching r_novis to "1" and then lowering the wateralpha, you can force the engine to display the water as transparent -- but at the cost of having the engine ignore vis data and drawing the entire map at all times.

Perhaps more importantly, maps that do not support transparent water have often been deliberately designed as such, so if you "trick" the engine into displaying transparent water, you might also end up breaking the gameplay and/or aesthetics of the map you're playing.

So in summary: only ever adjust wateralpha and leave novis alone. If the map has been designed for transparent water, it will work; otherwise stick with opaque water (i.e. wateralpha 1). 
bind k "cycle r_wateralpha 1, 0.5"

Did cycle exist in vanilla quake? o_O 
Got it. The reason I asked is because one of mfx's maps had to be run with r_novis "1" to make some funky transparent glass in the map show up properly, but that's a special case I guess. Thanks mates. 
Don't think cycle was in the original engines nope. Looks like QS and Mark V support it though. 
Did Alias Exist In Vanilla Quake? If So, That's Ridiculously Cool 
you could place all the stuff in a file too and use the exec command too 
The "zoom" command in vanilla Quake is an alias. It always existed in Quake.

The zoom command also auto-rebinds itself, exactly as described in #29918. 
Darkplaces Vs. FTEQW 
What's the best engine to play online today? Do they support more than 32 players? 
Unreal Editor History 
If you're going to play on quakeworld servers then FTEQW is clearly the better choice. Don't get me wrong, its nice that DP tries, its just that it doesn't really have much awareness of actual QW trends.
Things are a little more even when it comes to NQ servers, and given my bias I'm not even going to name my preference there...
but yeah, depends on personal preference, the server in question, and your choice of engine-specific content replacement stuff.

vanilla nq supports 16 players max.
vanilla qw supports 32 player slots max.
both fte and dp servers can be reconfigured for 255 players max, but don't expect other clients to be happy with it.
for fte you need to set both sv_playerslots and maxclients to 255 (two cvars because maxspectators also exists and shares slots).
although the chances of getting even 16 players is somewhat unlikely nowadays. 
Arenas And Co-op 
Is there a way to combine players vs. environment arena combat in FPSs with co-op play that doesn't suck? Let me explain my question.

By an arena I mean a combat encounter against mobs that happens in a limited area. Door close or other barriers appear to prevent the player from leaving until he has cleared the area. I'm sure you could name various newer FPS games that do this as their main gameplay mechanic, and it's also a common design pattern in Quake SP maps.

This sucks in co-op play if one player goes into an arena and locks it up. The others have to wait until the combat is over to join this one guy, unless there is a way for them to enter during the fight. Being able to teleport in is one way to solve this, but it feels a bit forced and teleporting does not fit with all kinds of games & worlds.

I'd want the players to have the freedom to explore the map while others are possibly fighting and join these fights at any time, or start fights of their own. I wouldn't mind some requirements towards having all the co-op players present for big final boss fights to start, but this should be only done for the main combats that are tuned for the number of players taking part. Freedom to explore should come first, but on the other hand well-crafted arena encounters are really fun.

What ways can you think of combining co-op play with PVE and arena style combat? Are there any games that actually do this in an interesting and natural way? 
If the "lock-in" is due to the player dropping down from a higher area, then that would work. Or maybe have a sort of double-door "airlock" setup that allows only one-way access to an area. 
This is called a "push" game mechanic. This could be any number of things. In SP, doors that slam behind you are very common. For coop, a height push as Kinn mentioned is very useful, natural, and common and works in any game.

You could do other methods, for instance to have player freedom, such as gravity/wind/catpult lifts or devices to take you up to a lifted fight area.

You could also still use a door that slams behind and then open up another pathway to a height push for any straggling players. 
Oneway turnstiles work too. HL2 uses this at the very beginning level in the trainstation. 
add a player counter trigger that activates only once it has been touched by every player. would need new qc though.

possibly fake it with some elaborate counter with timeout, and not enough players are standing on (separate) buttons then it doesn't continue.
sucks if there's only one player though.

one other alternative would be to flood the earlier parts of the map with lava or something. you'd need some teleporter with careful killtarget use to prevent respawning players from dying instantly though.

alternatively place a massive triggered teleporter over the earlier parts of the map and trigger it to instantly teleport lingering players into the arena. would need a teleporter at the start...

or just use one way teleporters so that you can always get in. You could put them behind a door that is toggled when the area starts, and again when it is ended (if desired). 
add a player counter trigger that activates only once it has been touched by every player. would need new qc though.

Easier one would be to put the trigger that targets the counter on a drop down or on a wind tunnel. Would need for the area to be wide enough so only one player passes at the same time and fiddle with the wait key till even if the two players go one right after the other it will trigger for both. 
Is True 
How very interesting, I'm sure you could talk for hours about GPL given the go. 
Co-op Gating 
I'm gonna share a simple trigger setup you can use to only trigger something once all the players have progressed beyond a "gate" (and then ruin it a bit at the end). We need to build something I call the "dead man's switch".

The idea of "dead man's switch" is that we build a system of entities with an input and an output, where the output fires if we haven't had an input in the past 0.5 seconds. I'm gonna prove it's theoretically possible using spike-shooters and doors - if I put more effort in I expect there's a cleaner way to build it, but that will have to wait until the blog post in a few years time.

Build a spikeshooter, firing continuously at the output trigger: a shootable trigger_once. Now position a door such that the door blocks the spikes when open, but allows them to pass when the door is closed. Make this door return rapidly to closed after fully opening.

Now add the input: a rapid firing trigger_multiple in the actual level which targets the door. So long as at least one player stands in this trigger, the door is retriggered repeatedly and kept in the open position. As soon as this stops happening, the door closes, a spike passes through, and the output trigger fires. The dead man's switch is complete!

How do we use the dead man's switch to create a gate that all the players must pass beyond before the level progresses? By defining the gate in negative terms. We cover all the portions of the level before the gate with trigger_multiple inputs to the dead man's switch. As long as at least one player remains in the pre-gate parts of the level, the switch cannot trigger. As soon as the last player leaves the triggers, the dead man's switch activates.

Now I've shared how to pull the basic version off, here's the first problem: the dead man's switch will trigger if there are no players in the pre-gate region, and one way to achieve that is to have zero living players anywhere in the server! This could happen if all the players die at once (especially easy if there's only one in the server) or if some network problem causes all clients to drop from the server (the "zero players connected" state at the root of many rare co-op bugs).

There's a reasonable workaround to this though: require a positive input to the spikeshooter, using a trigger_multiple from the region after the gate. Now we've changed the conditions to "no players before the gate, 1 or more after the gate".

The last thing to worry about is what happens if players die after you've fired the gate event. They will presumably respawn in the pre-gate area of the map, so you have to remember that you can't guarantee that players will remain trapped on the far side of the gate. This is especially important if you're locking an arena with a door - how will dead players rejoin the map? If your answer is that they can't, are you happy that the map will be impossible to complete if everyone dies? Or get disconnected by a network glitch? Don't worry unduly, but do try to bear these in mind. Good luck! 
Simplest solution to the problem at the end that I can imagine is to have a second, drop-down pathway that opens when the gate closes. Small, short & simple but enough to let players rejoin the ongoing fight. 
3 cheers for Khreathor and all the modeling help he gives me. 
I am seeing a lot of new users here. Both posting maps and questions. New blood is always good in the Quake scene. Glad to have you all. Stay... please!!! 
I now have beef with dumptruck for interrupting my round of cheers. 
How Quake Beginned 
Jam 9 
G'day gentlemen, has anyone found all the secrets in skacky's Jam 9 map Chasing Promises? Stuck at 16/20 looking for book 2 of 2 and chasing naked statues :) 
....u there dude? Or anyone got an email addy? 1:19 for him. 
It's Kind Of Funny But All These Years I Never Registered 
Lol, "It's got base and medieval, which is a sin against humanity." I literally almost spit out my coffee. Sounds like you're using the unreal soundtrack; awesome.

That map was actually cut short in its development by the jam deadline and in the final version the layout will make a lot more sense, with more secrets; and the grunts will be replaced with medieval archers so I will pray for absolution. 
Hey Dude. 
Glad you saw it. I had a great time the first time, and a great time the second time. It is one of my favs, ever, I think - the vibe of this giant natural tunnel through a mountain, with this crazy temple complex spanning it....mmmmmm. I don't mind the archers and they would work well instead of grunts, as long as it's just them :P 
Just A Musing 
Has a map ever used a hotrod custom progsdat in which there was a super special teleporter setup that didn't notify the player with whimsical zinning sounds or fantastical particle displays as to be used to make faux non-eluci..illuci..non-euclidean structures? Also I once attempted to brush out a Möbius band but getting the bendy curve part required tolerances the program and I couldn't manage to produce. 
Don't think so, as to make it truly seamless (i.e. Unreal engine portals, or the... portals in Portal) aside from muting the teleport WHZIRRRIRIRIR you'd also have to disable the player's view being automatically centered when teleporting. Oh, and somehow keep their movement direction and position because normally no matter where they touch a teleport trigger, they get sent to the exact same point where the destination is, so basically remove or change everything that makes a teleporter work as a teleporter. 
Check out Darkplaces engine and warpzones. 
"so basically remove or change everything that makes a teleporter work as a teleporter."

That seems to be what theyre getting at. "Can this be done in QuakeC?" was the basis of their question. 
Warpzone Is CSQC 
But it isn't terribly much different than qc. I can't remember where I found the warpzonelib at or I'd paste a link.

BUT, you could do a similar QC version:
You could make the trigger silent.
You could make it teleport without the particle effect.
You could make the destination ever so slightly above the floor so the player doesn't get stuck.
You could make what is behind the opening/passageway look just like the destination, but you wouldn't be able to convolute spaces as well unless you used func_wall for the areas beyond, toggled them, and separated it so the player doesn't see the toggling. Good luck.

Side note: skip texturing one side of func_illusionary can lend to some confusing areas. 
Very Easy To Use. Requires Darkplaces. 
Seems Link Is Dead, Sowwee 
I played around with it a bit, here's a picture of a thin "viewscreen" looking thru to a fully rendered DM2: 
First Link 
worked for me, damage_inc 
Sorry For The Confusion... 
I meant the "warpzone rar" inside the link does not work. You can't download it, says "Invalid or Deleted File". 
Command On Map Loading 
Is there any way to set a list of commands that are executed when maps are loaded rather than when Quake (Quakespasm in this case) is started? I prefer to disable fog but end up always having to open the console and enter "fog 0" on new levels or on loading a game. 
Can't Be Done 
But you could throw something hideous in quake/id1/autoexec.cfg

alias +no_fog_forward "fog 0; +forward"
alias -no_fog_forward "fog 0; -forward"
bind UPARROW +no_fog_forward

So that every time you press the up arrow key it disables fog. 
Slightly Less Hideous 
For a single command, the aliases and +/- aren't necessary, you can just stick
bind <key> "fog 0"
and then press whatever key for the same effect once the map's loaded. 
Fair Enough 
Keybind is fairly convenient anyway, surprised there isn't an option to disable fog completely in-engine though. 
My First Post 
what is this place for? 
Quake / Quake Mapping / FPS Discussion Mostly. 
Quake Maps And Wicked Banter. 
Fog needs to be locked unless player does noclip. Make so that it toggles r_fullbright at the same time. It's either all or nothing imo. 
Why "lock" anything?

Anyway if you have the self control to not turn off the fog, it's simple enough to make it so that a single keybind turns on fullbright, noclip, fog 0, etc...

though restoring the fog value after you leave that "mode" would be awkward, if not impossible. 
Hardcode it into the engine that the player gibs if he tries tweaking any aspect of the visuals that go against the designer's intent.

Turns on blurry pixel mode? Gibby time for you mister...

Is it bad I have a keybind for noclip, notarget, godmode, fullbright on, and fullbright off? Mappers kit i guess 
Have To Get That One Myself 
Hardcode it into the engine that the player gibs if he tries tweaking any aspect of the visuals that go against the designer's intent.
I've heard stories of various Doom mods (wads?) that will kill the player or intentionally crash if they detect other mods being loaded at the same time, but having essentially zero experience with Doom modding I'm not sure how widespread/true they are. At least that's not a thing here, although a mod that does give a rude message when played in Darkplaces sounds like some cheeky fun.

Is it bad I have a keybind for noclip, notarget, godmode, fullbright on, and fullbright off? Mappers kit i guess
Nah, it's not bad until you have three copies of your \id1 folder named slightly different with identical contents other than the \maps folder so you can have one game for pure vanilla, one game to play downloaded maps, and one game to compile your own maps into.'s Bad. Really, Bad Since I Have A 4th For My Own Mod. 
Hue Test 
How good are you at perceiving different colors?

Take the test. My score was 21. 
I got a 4. :D

(lower is better) 
First Attempt: Got "0" 
Online ColorIQ Challenge Results
You have perfect color vision!

Aww yeah!

I have a rare form of Palinopsia, which basically means my vision looks like I'm tripping balls 24/7. One of the neat side effects is that I have superhuman colour perception. One of the not-so-neat side effects is that I cannot read white text on black without my entire field of view turning to snow/static, driving at night is scary as fuck, and if I look at a person's face for too long, it starts wobbling around in a disturbing way. 
Zero As Well 
I was really not expecting such a result 
if I look at a person's face for too long, it starts wobbling around in a disturbing way

Exporting them to MD3 should fix that. 
Better than I expected considering my dismal art skills 
Kinn is a mutant 
also got a 4... damn blue greens... 
I scored 23. Does this mean my career as a colorist is over, or does it mean that I was too cheap when buying this monitor, and probably should calibrate it better in any case?

I think the only real answer is that I'll never have a career as a colorist while using this monitor, at least. 
So, You Think You Are Good At Quake? 
Keyboard Only 
Ah, the good ol days. Reminds me of when I first played when I was 5. Every now and again I'll dust off my arrow keys. 
i used to play quake. then i took an arrow key to the knee. 
Dear Next Poster... 
Make this golden 30k post a divine moment... 
Cheap Nike Jerseys 
Fucking Killpixel. 
Top Post 
About as useful and informative as the average killpixel post. 
Forgot The Link Though 
@damage_inc, Kinn From TB Tutorial Thread 
I was blown away by AD when I first saw the screenshots of it a couple years ago. Considering it now, I think it may be that Quake's world and engine are manipulating how I process the geometry. In Quake, there are no props outside monsters and packs of health or ammo. There are no displacements. The detail of maps is comprised almost entirely of brushwork. Simon and his compatriots in the AD mod just seem to be able to create these amazing curved, arched, rotated, spiraling structures that I can't even conceptualize in Hammer. Like Kinn said, I guess it would probably be possible, but you'd have to be going completely ham with the clipping tool to do it.

Judging by Simon's readmes over the years, he's been using SDRadiant 1.3.8 for over a decade, an editor I can't even find on Google. I just feel like Radiant (and maybe TB) must possess some more intuitive and speedy ways of shaping the complex geometry that they create. 
How did you take Kinn stating this: "There is literally nothing that you can do in TB or NetRadiant or Jack that you can't do in any of the others." into "I guess it would probably be possible... "?

I'm not trying to be argumentative or aggressive btw. I just don't see you comment as being valid.

I know Ionous was part of a few maps included in AD and he only uses Jack only. I'll ask him the next time he is streaming.

Any complex curvy structure is just a composition of simple convex shapes that can be made in any editor. Some operations may take one or two less clicks to do in this editor versus that editor. But then that editor might do another thing with less clicks than this editor, so it balances out.

Really, the choice of editors is down to which interface you prefer. The level you make comes purely from your imagination. The difference in quality between maps is 100% about the artist, not the tools. 
Unless The Editor Is Deathmatch Maker 
or Quark. Fuck those two. 
Alright Yall Win 
It's probably just me who can't envision it. I would really like to see someone recreate a room or two from ad_sepulcher or something of the like. So many map editor tutorials on YouTube and 90% of them are "here's how you make a box and put a spawn point in it". 
#30006, Internet On Fire Etc... 
Some cursory searching has revealed that SDRadiant is the Splash Damage version of Radiant - this pastebin claims it was for Wolf:ET! Certainly a curious choice of editor to still be using after all these years, but I suppose if something ain't broke, you shouldn't try to fix it.

Now, where you get SDRadiant from is another matter... Does anyone know if it's packaged in the Wolf:ET download? It'd take me about four hours to check with my speed... 
I must have consciously picked up on SleepWalker's Radiant inspiration when I tried TB out. I have tried nearly every editor out there. However, I have logged the most hours in Radiant. Both for Quake 3 and COD:UO mapping.

TB also reminds me of the first editor i ever used Quest.

There's no "best" editor IMO. I think TB is elegant and easy to pick up after not havbing mapped in many years. That's why I use it.

I could jump back into xRadiant any time. I just choose not to. TB is too much fun. 
And Another Thing 
Why are there so damn many forks of Radiant? 
But Can JACK... THIS
Feature Request: 
Escher mode 
Very Nice 
I'd like to see the tris and how well it lights! 
I didn't try compiling it into a map. It's just a bunch of cubes with offsetting, rotation, shearing, vertex editing and a bit of triangulation.

Anyway, it was a bit disappointing to realize that the alt+rightclick tool for texture alignment is unable to make the texture alignment actually follow that path. Due to this, I couldn't use a scrolling texture to get the same effect of the animation linked by OTP.

The Quake BSP format uses a 2D projection on a 3D plane for texturing. This 3D plane uses a 3D projection to be rendered to the screen. I suspect that a 3D projection on a 3D plane would be required to properly align textures on structures like this. 
With valve220 and by triangulating all your faces it is doable, I did something similar with obj2map, works fine. 
Killpixel: Here's the mesh.

Bal: JACK's generated .map file has a "mapversion" "220" field in its worldspawn.
But what Jack is actually missing is a Contour Stretch UVs Projection tool. This could help a ton of maps.

And I guess that for such distorted shapes, this would require 3D texture mapping, where the texture can have a depth projected onto the surface plane itself rather than only on the screen. I'm talking about a surface with a texture tiled in a non-linear way like this, rather than like this. Hmm, I guess that "non-linear texture mapping" is a better way to describe what I'm thinking about.
Linearly mapped scaling, rotation and shearing can at best produce results like this. It can't make, for example, a rectangular tile fit a trapezoid surface - and many curved shapes are basically a set of trapezoid segments. 
No 3D modeling app does that though, you're only solution is to have more polies basically to hide the how the triangulation breaking up your UVs.

Still with valve220 + triangulation, you have the equivalent of UVs and can do in quake anything you could do in a modeling app with same ammount of tris. 
Absolute madman. 
Lunaran, Johnny Law mentioned that you wanted to make the Steam group public. I can do that, if nobody has any objections.

Any of you assholes live in SoCal? 
@Mr Fribbles 
I live in Los Angeles dude. And luckily I am an asshole. 
Haha, perfect!

I'm moving to Santa Monica soon, is why I ask. I'll send a shout out after I'm settled to see if anyone wants to meet up for some kind of asshole convention. 
Come and hang out at nu-tf: 
Santa Monica? Nice. I'm in Burbank north of the Hollywood sign.

I hope you like traffic. It's getting bad in SoCal. But you'll have a straight shot to the beach on the latest metro line.

Yeah let's meet when you get settled. 
So Frib 
What takes you to the US? 
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