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Q2 Compile 
The solution I have in mind is upgrading to quake 2's qbsp tool (backporting it to support Q1)

That's sounds awesome. Beyond better compile times, would a Q2-based compile set the stage for any other new features that could be introduced down the line? (in the vein of things like func_detail, which we have now of course) 
Kinn 
I feel like most of the potential features are already implemented (not sure if you saw the detail variants I added last summer: link), so a migration to q2 qbsp code would be mostly speed / stability. I'd want to port over all of those current features though. 
 
(not sure if you saw the detail variants I added last summer: link)

Yes, I discovered those a few days ago - they sound awesome :) 
Help With Key Bindings 
Which topic should I use for help with key bindings? 
 
I'm trying to create a toggle for r_wateralpha "1" and r_wateralpha "0.5" 
I Don't Think You Can Toggle A Non-binary Value 
you'd have to bind each to a separate key. binding a toggle looks like this, btw: bind x "toggle r_showtris" 
 
You could use the bind-that-rebinds-itself sort of technique. E.g.

alias w1 "r_wateralpha 1; bind k w05"
alias w05 "r_wateralpha 0.5; bind k w1"
r_wateralpha 0.5
bind k w1 
Johnny Law 
that's a useful technique, haven't seen that before. 
 
bind k "cycle r_wateralpha 1, 0.5" 
Sweet 
Thanks. Also when using r_wateralpha "0.5", assuming the map supports transparent water, should r_novis be set to 1 or 0? I'm using QuakeSpasm. 
Maiden 
Maiden: About Wateralpha And Novis 
"r_novis" should pretty much always be "0" (i.e. off) -- which is the default anyway, so basically, don't tinker with it. This is why:

What r_novis does, is to tell the engine to ignore vis data, which specify which parts of the map are visible to the player at any given time.

Vis (short for visibility) saves the engine from having to draw the entire map at all times (which is a waste of resources and, especially on large maps and slower computers, can slow the game down). If a map has not been designed and compiled with transparent water in mind, then the water blocks visibility, and whatever is below or above the water (from the player's perspective) is not drawn. Simply setting r_wateralpha to a value lower than 1 will not magically make the water transparent -- in Quakespasm you'll get some ugly visual artifacts.

By switching r_novis to "1" and then lowering the wateralpha, you can force the engine to display the water as transparent -- but at the cost of having the engine ignore vis data and drawing the entire map at all times.

Perhaps more importantly, maps that do not support transparent water have often been deliberately designed as such, so if you "trick" the engine into displaying transparent water, you might also end up breaking the gameplay and/or aesthetics of the map you're playing.

So in summary: only ever adjust wateralpha and leave novis alone. If the map has been designed for transparent water, it will work; otherwise stick with opaque water (i.e. wateralpha 1). 
 
bind k "cycle r_wateralpha 1, 0.5"

Did cycle exist in vanilla quake? o_O 
 
Got it. The reason I asked is because one of mfx's maps had to be run with r_novis "1" to make some funky transparent glass in the map show up properly, but that's a special case I guess. Thanks mates. 
#29924 
Don't think cycle was in the original engines nope. Looks like QS and Mark V support it though. 
Did Alias Exist In Vanilla Quake? If So, That's Ridiculously Cool 
 
Yeps 
you could place all the stuff in a file too and use the exec command too 
#29926 
The "zoom" command in vanilla Quake is an alias. It always existed in Quake.

The zoom command also auto-rebinds itself, exactly as described in #29918. 
Darkplaces Vs. FTEQW 
What's the best engine to play online today? Do they support more than 32 players? 
Unreal Editor History 
@dfut 
If you're going to play on quakeworld servers then FTEQW is clearly the better choice. Don't get me wrong, its nice that DP tries, its just that it doesn't really have much awareness of actual QW trends.
Things are a little more even when it comes to NQ servers, and given my bias I'm not even going to name my preference there...
but yeah, depends on personal preference, the server in question, and your choice of engine-specific content replacement stuff.

vanilla nq supports 16 players max.
vanilla qw supports 32 player slots max.
both fte and dp servers can be reconfigured for 255 players max, but don't expect other clients to be happy with it.
for fte you need to set both sv_playerslots and maxclients to 255 (two cvars because maxspectators also exists and shares slots).
although the chances of getting even 16 players is somewhat unlikely nowadays. 
Arenas And Co-op 
Is there a way to combine players vs. environment arena combat in FPSs with co-op play that doesn't suck? Let me explain my question.

By an arena I mean a combat encounter against mobs that happens in a limited area. Door close or other barriers appear to prevent the player from leaving until he has cleared the area. I'm sure you could name various newer FPS games that do this as their main gameplay mechanic, and it's also a common design pattern in Quake SP maps.

This sucks in co-op play if one player goes into an arena and locks it up. The others have to wait until the combat is over to join this one guy, unless there is a way for them to enter during the fight. Being able to teleport in is one way to solve this, but it feels a bit forced and teleporting does not fit with all kinds of games & worlds.

I'd want the players to have the freedom to explore the map while others are possibly fighting and join these fights at any time, or start fights of their own. I wouldn't mind some requirements towards having all the co-op players present for big final boss fights to start, but this should be only done for the main combats that are tuned for the number of players taking part. Freedom to explore should come first, but on the other hand well-crafted arena encounters are really fun.

What ways can you think of combining co-op play with PVE and arena style combat? Are there any games that actually do this in an interesting and natural way? 
 
If the "lock-in" is due to the player dropping down from a higher area, then that would work. Or maybe have a sort of double-door "airlock" setup that allows only one-way access to an area. 
Push 
This is called a "push" game mechanic. This could be any number of things. In SP, doors that slam behind you are very common. For coop, a height push as Kinn mentioned is very useful, natural, and common and works in any game.

You could do other methods, for instance to have player freedom, such as gravity/wind/catpult lifts or devices to take you up to a lifted fight area.

You could also still use a door that slams behind and then open up another pathway to a height push for any straggling players. 
Ooh 
Oneway turnstiles work too. HL2 uses this at the very beginning level in the trainstation. 
 
add a player counter trigger that activates only once it has been touched by every player. would need new qc though.

possibly fake it with some elaborate counter with timeout, and not enough players are standing on (separate) buttons then it doesn't continue.
sucks if there's only one player though.

one other alternative would be to flood the earlier parts of the map with lava or something. you'd need some teleporter with careful killtarget use to prevent respawning players from dying instantly though.

alternatively place a massive triggered teleporter over the earlier parts of the map and trigger it to instantly teleport lingering players into the arena. would need a teleporter at the start...

or just use one way teleporters so that you can always get in. You could put them behind a door that is toggled when the area starts, and again when it is ended (if desired). 
Also 
add a player counter trigger that activates only once it has been touched by every player. would need new qc though.

Easier one would be to put the trigger that targets the counter on a drop down or on a wind tunnel. Would need for the area to be wide enough so only one player passes at the same time and fiddle with the wait key till even if the two players go one right after the other it will trigger for both. 
Is True 
#29939 
How very interesting, I'm sure you could talk for hours about GPL given the go. 
Co-op Gating 
I'm gonna share a simple trigger setup you can use to only trigger something once all the players have progressed beyond a "gate" (and then ruin it a bit at the end). We need to build something I call the "dead man's switch".

The idea of "dead man's switch" is that we build a system of entities with an input and an output, where the output fires if we haven't had an input in the past 0.5 seconds. I'm gonna prove it's theoretically possible using spike-shooters and doors - if I put more effort in I expect there's a cleaner way to build it, but that will have to wait until the blog post in a few years time.

Build a spikeshooter, firing continuously at the output trigger: a shootable trigger_once. Now position a door such that the door blocks the spikes when open, but allows them to pass when the door is closed. Make this door return rapidly to closed after fully opening.

Now add the input: a rapid firing trigger_multiple in the actual level which targets the door. So long as at least one player stands in this trigger, the door is retriggered repeatedly and kept in the open position. As soon as this stops happening, the door closes, a spike passes through, and the output trigger fires. The dead man's switch is complete!

How do we use the dead man's switch to create a gate that all the players must pass beyond before the level progresses? By defining the gate in negative terms. We cover all the portions of the level before the gate with trigger_multiple inputs to the dead man's switch. As long as at least one player remains in the pre-gate parts of the level, the switch cannot trigger. As soon as the last player leaves the triggers, the dead man's switch activates.

Now I've shared how to pull the basic version off, here's the first problem: the dead man's switch will trigger if there are no players in the pre-gate region, and one way to achieve that is to have zero living players anywhere in the server! This could happen if all the players die at once (especially easy if there's only one in the server) or if some network problem causes all clients to drop from the server (the "zero players connected" state at the root of many rare co-op bugs).

There's a reasonable workaround to this though: require a positive input to the spikeshooter, using a trigger_multiple from the region after the gate. Now we've changed the conditions to "no players before the gate, 1 or more after the gate".

The last thing to worry about is what happens if players die after you've fired the gate event. They will presumably respawn in the pre-gate area of the map, so you have to remember that you can't guarantee that players will remain trapped on the far side of the gate. This is especially important if you're locking an arena with a door - how will dead players rejoin the map? If your answer is that they can't, are you happy that the map will be impossible to complete if everyone dies? Or get disconnected by a network glitch? Don't worry unduly, but do try to bear these in mind. Good luck! 
 
Simplest solution to the problem at the end that I can imagine is to have a second, drop-down pathway that opens when the gate closes. Small, short & simple but enough to let players rejoin the ongoing fight. 
 
3 cheers for Khreathor and all the modeling help he gives me. 
Welcome 
I am seeing a lot of new users here. Both posting maps and questions. New blood is always good in the Quake scene. Glad to have you all. Stay... please!!! 
 
I now have beef with dumptruck for interrupting my round of cheers. 
Sry 
EOM 
How Quake Beginned 
Jam 9 
G'day gentlemen, has anyone found all the secrets in skacky's Jam 9 map Chasing Promises? Stuck at 16/20 looking for book 2 of 2 and chasing naked statues :) 
Tronyn.... 
....u there dude? Or anyone got an email addy?

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/223256760 1:19 for him. 
It's Kind Of Funny But All These Years I Never Registered 
Lol, "It's got base and medieval, which is a sin against humanity." I literally almost spit out my coffee. Sounds like you're using the unreal soundtrack; awesome.

That map was actually cut short in its development by the jam deadline and in the final version the layout will make a lot more sense, with more secrets; and the grunts will be replaced with medieval archers so I will pray for absolution. 
Hey Dude. 
Glad you saw it. I had a great time the first time, and a great time the second time. It is one of my favs, ever, I think - the vibe of this giant natural tunnel through a mountain, with this crazy temple complex spanning it....mmmmmm. I don't mind the archers and they would work well instead of grunts, as long as it's just them :P 
Just A Musing 
Has a map ever used a hotrod custom progsdat in which there was a super special teleporter setup that didn't notify the player with whimsical zinning sounds or fantastical particle displays as to be used to make faux non-eluci..illuci..non-euclidean structures? Also I once attempted to brush out a Möbius band but getting the bendy curve part required tolerances the program and I couldn't manage to produce. 
 
Don't think so, as to make it truly seamless (i.e. Unreal engine portals, or the... portals in Portal) aside from muting the teleport WHZIRRRIRIRIR you'd also have to disable the player's view being automatically centered when teleporting. Oh, and somehow keep their movement direction and position because normally no matter where they touch a teleport trigger, they get sent to the exact same point where the destination is, so basically remove or change everything that makes a teleporter work as a teleporter. 
Null 
Check out Darkplaces engine and warpzones.

https://youtu.be/B7fP6arAfbA 
 
"so basically remove or change everything that makes a teleporter work as a teleporter."

That seems to be what theyre getting at. "Can this be done in QuakeC?" was the basis of their question. 
Warpzone Is CSQC 
But it isn't terribly much different than qc. I can't remember where I found the warpzonelib at or I'd paste a link.

BUT, you could do a similar QC version:
You could make the trigger silent.
You could make it teleport without the particle effect.
You could make the destination ever so slightly above the floor so the player doesn't get stuck.
You could make what is behind the opening/passageway look just like the destination, but you wouldn't be able to convolute spaces as well unless you used func_wall for the areas beyond, toggled them, and separated it so the player doesn't see the toggling. Good luck.

Side note: skip texturing one side of func_illusionary can lend to some confusing areas. 
Very Easy To Use. Requires Darkplaces. 
Seems Link Is Dead, Sowwee 
I played around with it a bit, here's a picture of a thin "viewscreen" looking thru to a fully rendered DM2:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/308578062126022658/397969864981217283/dp20180102232546-00.jpg 
First Link 
worked for me, damage_inc 
Sorry For The Confusion... 
I meant the "warpzone rar" inside the link does not work. You can't download it, says "Invalid or Deleted File". 
Yeah... 
...nah... 
Command On Map Loading 
Is there any way to set a list of commands that are executed when maps are loaded rather than when Quake (Quakespasm in this case) is started? I prefer to disable fog but end up always having to open the console and enter "fog 0" on new levels or on loading a game. 
Can't Be Done 
But you could throw something hideous in quake/id1/autoexec.cfg

alias +no_fog_forward "fog 0; +forward"
alias -no_fog_forward "fog 0; -forward"
bind UPARROW +no_fog_forward

So that every time you press the up arrow key it disables fog. 
Slightly Less Hideous 
For a single command, the aliases and +/- aren't necessary, you can just stick
bind <key> "fog 0"
and then press whatever key for the same effect once the map's loaded. 
Fair Enough 
Keybind is fairly convenient anyway, surprised there isn't an option to disable fog completely in-engine though. 
My First Post 
what is this place for? 
Quake / Quake Mapping / FPS Discussion Mostly. 
 
Quake Maps And Wicked Banter. 
Welcome! 
Idea 
Fog needs to be locked unless player does noclip. Make so that it toggles r_fullbright at the same time. It's either all or nothing imo. 
#29977 
Why "lock" anything?

Anyway if you have the self control to not turn off the fog, it's simple enough to make it so that a single keybind turns on fullbright, noclip, fog 0, etc...

though restoring the fog value after you leave that "mode" would be awkward, if not impossible. 
 
Hardcode it into the engine that the player gibs if he tries tweaking any aspect of the visuals that go against the designer's intent.

Turns on blurry pixel mode? Gibby time for you mister...

"chuk-chun-chin-chi-chi-ngnol" 
 
Is it bad I have a keybind for noclip, notarget, godmode, fullbright on, and fullbright off? Mappers kit i guess 
Have To Get That One Myself 
 
 
Hardcode it into the engine that the player gibs if he tries tweaking any aspect of the visuals that go against the designer's intent.
I've heard stories of various Doom mods (wads?) that will kill the player or intentionally crash if they detect other mods being loaded at the same time, but having essentially zero experience with Doom modding I'm not sure how widespread/true they are. At least that's not a thing here, although a mod that does give a rude message when played in Darkplaces sounds like some cheeky fun.

Is it bad I have a keybind for noclip, notarget, godmode, fullbright on, and fullbright off? Mappers kit i guess
Nah, it's not bad until you have three copies of your \id1 folder named slightly different with identical contents other than the \maps folder so you can have one game for pure vanilla, one game to play downloaded maps, and one game to compile your own maps into. 
Oh...then...it's Bad. Really, Bad Since I Have A 4th For My Own Mod. 
 
Hue Test 
How good are you at perceiving different colors?

Take the test. My score was 21. 
 
I got a 4. :D

(lower is better) 
First Attempt: Got "0" 
Online ColorIQ Challenge Results
You have perfect color vision!


Aww yeah!

I have a rare form of Palinopsia, which basically means my vision looks like I'm tripping balls 24/7. One of the neat side effects is that I have superhuman colour perception. One of the not-so-neat side effects is that I cannot read white text on black without my entire field of view turning to snow/static, driving at night is scary as fuck, and if I look at a person's face for too long, it starts wobbling around in a disturbing way. 
Zero As Well 
I was really not expecting such a result 
 
if I look at a person's face for too long, it starts wobbling around in a disturbing way

Exporting them to MD3 should fix that. 
Better than I expected considering my dismal art skills 
Also 
Kinn is a mutant 
 
also got a 4... damn blue greens... 
 
I scored 23. Does this mean my career as a colorist is over, or does it mean that I was too cheap when buying this monitor, and probably should calibrate it better in any case?

I think the only real answer is that I'll never have a career as a colorist while using this monitor, at least. 
So, You Think You Are Good At Quake? 
Keyboard Only 
Ah, the good ol days. Reminds me of when I first played when I was 5. Every now and again I'll dust off my arrow keys. 
 
i used to play quake. then i took an arrow key to the knee. 
Dear Next Poster... 
Make this golden 30k post a divine moment... 
Cheap Nike Jerseys 
 
Superb 
 
Fucking Killpixel. 
 
Top Post 
 
 
About as useful and informative as the average killpixel post. 
Forgot The Link Though 
 
@damage_inc, Kinn From TB Tutorial Thread 
I was blown away by AD when I first saw the screenshots of it a couple years ago. Considering it now, I think it may be that Quake's world and engine are manipulating how I process the geometry. In Quake, there are no props outside monsters and packs of health or ammo. There are no displacements. The detail of maps is comprised almost entirely of brushwork. Simon and his compatriots in the AD mod just seem to be able to create these amazing curved, arched, rotated, spiraling structures that I can't even conceptualize in Hammer. Like Kinn said, I guess it would probably be possible, but you'd have to be going completely ham with the clipping tool to do it.

Judging by Simon's readmes over the years, he's been using SDRadiant 1.3.8 for over a decade, an editor I can't even find on Google. I just feel like Radiant (and maybe TB) must possess some more intuitive and speedy ways of shaping the complex geometry that they create. 
 
How did you take Kinn stating this: "There is literally nothing that you can do in TB or NetRadiant or Jack that you can't do in any of the others." into "I guess it would probably be possible... "?

I'm not trying to be argumentative or aggressive btw. I just don't see you comment as being valid.

I know Ionous was part of a few maps included in AD and he only uses Jack only. I'll ask him the next time he is streaming.

Cheers 
 
Any complex curvy structure is just a composition of simple convex shapes that can be made in any editor. Some operations may take one or two less clicks to do in this editor versus that editor. But then that editor might do another thing with less clicks than this editor, so it balances out.

Really, the choice of editors is down to which interface you prefer. The level you make comes purely from your imagination. The difference in quality between maps is 100% about the artist, not the tools. 
Unless The Editor Is Deathmatch Maker 
or Quark. Fuck those two. 
Alright Yall Win 
It's probably just me who can't envision it. I would really like to see someone recreate a room or two from ad_sepulcher or something of the like. So many map editor tutorials on YouTube and 90% of them are "here's how you make a box and put a spawn point in it". 
#30006, Internet On Fire Etc... 
Some cursory searching has revealed that SDRadiant is the Splash Damage version of Radiant - this pastebin claims it was for Wolf:ET! Certainly a curious choice of editor to still be using after all these years, but I suppose if something ain't broke, you shouldn't try to fix it.

Now, where you get SDRadiant from is another matter... Does anyone know if it's packaged in the Wolf:ET download? It'd take me about four hours to check with my speed... 
@sevin 
I must have consciously picked up on SleepWalker's Radiant inspiration when I tried TB out. I have tried nearly every editor out there. However, I have logged the most hours in Radiant. Both for Quake 3 and COD:UO mapping.

TB also reminds me of the first editor i ever used Quest.

There's no "best" editor IMO. I think TB is elegant and easy to pick up after not havbing mapped in many years. That's why I use it.

I could jump back into xRadiant any time. I just choose not to. TB is too much fun. 
And Another Thing 
Why are there so damn many forks of Radiant? 
But Can JACK... 
...do THIS
Feature Request: 
Escher mode 
#30014 
Very Nice 
I'd like to see the tris and how well it lights! 
 
I didn't try compiling it into a map. It's just a bunch of cubes with offsetting, rotation, shearing, vertex editing and a bit of triangulation.

Anyway, it was a bit disappointing to realize that the alt+rightclick tool for texture alignment is unable to make the texture alignment actually follow that path. Due to this, I couldn't use a scrolling texture to get the same effect of the animation linked by OTP.

The Quake BSP format uses a 2D projection on a 3D plane for texturing. This 3D plane uses a 3D projection to be rendered to the screen. I suspect that a 3D projection on a 3D plane would be required to properly align textures on structures like this. 
Mankrip 
With valve220 and by triangulating all your faces it is doable, I did something similar with obj2map, works fine. 
 
Killpixel: Here's the mesh.

Bal: JACK's generated .map file has a "mapversion" "220" field in its worldspawn.
But what Jack is actually missing is a Contour Stretch UVs Projection tool. This could help a ton of maps.

And I guess that for such distorted shapes, this would require 3D texture mapping, where the texture can have a depth projected onto the surface plane itself rather than only on the screen. I'm talking about a surface with a texture tiled in a non-linear way like this, rather than like this. Hmm, I guess that "non-linear texture mapping" is a better way to describe what I'm thinking about.
Linearly mapped scaling, rotation and shearing can at best produce results like this. It can't make, for example, a rectangular tile fit a trapezoid surface - and many curved shapes are basically a set of trapezoid segments. 
Mankrip 
No 3D modeling app does that though, you're only solution is to have more polies basically to hide the how the triangulation breaking up your UVs.

Still with valve220 + triangulation, you have the equivalent of UVs and can do in quake anything you could do in a modeling app with same ammount of tris. 
#30017 
Absolute madman. 
Func_Group 
Lunaran, Johnny Law mentioned that you wanted to make the Steam group public. I can do that, if nobody has any objections.

Any of you assholes live in SoCal? 
@Mr Fribbles 
I live in Los Angeles dude. And luckily I am an asshole. 
Dumptruck 
Haha, perfect!

I'm moving to Santa Monica soon, is why I ask. I'll send a shout out after I'm settled to see if anyone wants to meet up for some kind of asshole convention. 
Fribbles 
Come and hang out at nu-tf: https://discord.gg/9YkdqCu 
Fribbles 
Santa Monica? Nice. I'm in Burbank north of the Hollywood sign.

I hope you like traffic. It's getting bad in SoCal. But you'll have a straight shot to the beach on the latest metro line.

Yeah let's meet when you get settled. 
So Frib 
What takes you to the US? 
Some Polling Action 
If you would be so kind:

Level playtime
Level Structure
Protagonist 
Interesting Killpixel. 
You've picked some issues there that are 99% irrelevant to FPS game quality (I voted as such). 
 
Level playtime depends not only on the gameplay mechanics, but also on the savegame style and on the talent of the people making the levels.

For reference, Leptis Magna is the largest AD map which I've enjoyed enough to feel like giving it another full run someday. On some of the other maps, I feel a little too overwhelmed and it gets a little hard to mentally track down all the tasks (books, keys, secrets, etc, and their respective locations and puzzles). Without real-time saving and detailed status info (let's say, maps like Foggy Bogbottom would really benefit from a Metroid Prime style automap and a Doom 3 PDA style notes system), the more complex maps become more difficult.

On the other hand, some games out there feature big levels whose encounters/puzzles/etc are not complex enough to take advantage of their available space, and becomes boring. In this case, the way to improve them would be to make them shorter.

TL;DR: Great level design can benefit from expansions to the game's scope, while not-so- good level design can benefit from a reduction in their scope. 
 
The decision between episodes and a hub system should depend on the length of the levels.

Turok 2 uses a hub system where you can select each map individually, but each map takes a long time to be finished. Quake features an episodic hub system with multiple levels packed on each episode and where you can't select the maps individually, but the playtime of each map is way quicker. 
It's Odd 
Whenever these sorts of surveys come up, small maps arranged in episodes are always overwhelmingly preferred compared to a single megamap. For the time and effort it takes to produce a modern style megamap, a mapper could produce a really decent episode of smaller maps (something like the scope of Terra, or DOPA), so why don't we see more of them? It is just that mappers find it more enjoyable making big maps rather than episodes? 
#30034 - I Know Why! 
Modern mapping is about dick-waving. You want to make big, convoluted map with super detailed brushing. Gameplay must be at least 8h long. 1000 monsters is mandatory. If player's demo file is less than 20Gb, you're doing it wrong. 
 
@shambler - Is that so? I appreciate your vote ;)

@mankrip - I definitely agree.

@kinn - The current poll results corroborate the data I already have and it makes sense to me. Intense gameplay can become fatiguing rather quickly. It's nice to be able to get quickie rather committing a chunk of time to something you'll grow tired of half way through.

@khrathor - Hyper-detailed megamaps are awe-inspiring, incredible achievements IMO. The rub is that I have much more fun noclipping around slack-jawed than actually playing them. 
 
It's nice to be able to get quickie rather committing a chunk of time to something you'll grow tired of half way through.

That depends on the age of the audience. When I was a teenager with no job it was certainly easier to play long sessions, while in the last years most of my gaming has been on the bus. The megamaps in AD would certainly make it one of the top FPSs in the 90's, maybe the top one.

What's weird is that people who have lots of free time nowadays seems to prefer less intensive entertainment such as MMORPGs or binge watching Netflix.

I'd say to just define very well the kind of audience you're targeting, and go for it. There are all kinds of niches out there, you don't necessarily need to target everyone. 
Killpixel. 
Yeah man. I rate protagonist (as long as he's not as dull as fucking Jensen in DX), map linkage (as long as there is some and it's not unconnected gibberish like the latest Wofl), and map length (as long as it's not crazy short or days long) as pretty low factors compared to a game's, say, theme, flow, pacing, physics, movement, setting, aesthetics, exploration, gameplay-focus, architecture, bestiary, etc etc. 
Size Counts. 
Map length is a very important property. It hugely affects the gameplay experience IMO, and is also a big factor in deciding whether or not I can be bothered to replay. I agree the others aren't terribly important though. 
 
@mankrip - That and there are so many games now vying for people's time like never before. As for the target demographic, seems to be 30 year old males (20ish on the younger end, 40-45 on the older).

@shamber - Yeah, I get what you're saying and where you're coming from. When it comes time to make fairly concrete decisions (which it has) in regards to scheduling, staffing, allocating funds, etc, these are absolutely pertinent questions that have 100% relevance to the final quality of the game. These being some of the questions currently at hand does not mean that I haven't, and won't continue to, consider deeply the other aspects of a quality FPS that you mentioned.

So yeah, I'm coming at this from a logistical angle as opposed to a general theory angle. 
About The Age 
40-45 on the older.. I think you are out by a decade for some people ;) 
Age! 
Or two! 
JPL 
Definitely. I would say the average age of retro fps players/buyers is in the 30-35 range. 
So What Did I Do... 
To get blocked by @quake_txt on Twitter? 
 
Quakeulf, maybe he just doesn't like Quake II?

Who knows, especially if you don't recall have any interactions with the account.. 
 
I only retweeted and replied to some posts. Others who have done more for Quake 2 who have also strongly critisised the account are not blocked. It does not make sense.

What is going on? 
Did You Know? 
The original Rubicon turned 20 last Sunday. 
#30047 
Happy Birthday so... 
Quakeulf 
Don't worry about it; if it was a mistake (automatic filtering, etc.), they'd be already aware and unblocked you.

I've also been unfollowed by a number of people, and likely muted by some, though I don't remember seeing anyone block me. Anyway, social networking is... It has the potential to be a good thing, but the downsides are prone to be mentally degrading, so it's important to not let stuff like this cling to our minds.

It's important to train ourselves to not care about people's negative reactions to us. Particularly, I prefer to not even know when people block or mute me. I'm fine with anyone hating or avoiding me, it happened a million times in my life with lots of different people, and eventually I've figured out that caring about such situations is just a waste of time. Plus, nobody can hate me more than myself, so usually it's just laughable.

And some people just need time. Having the initiative to try to "make things right" when the initiative to "make things wrong" came from the other person is awkward and would just make things worse.
People change, and someday some of the people who hates us end up changing their mind, so there's no need to rush things. If they never change their mind, it's their problem. 
 
I'm sentimental about Rubicon.

I have a memory of looking up behind a pipe and seeing the trigger to shoot to access nightmare and I felt "smart". I was using FitzQuake because I thought that was the "right thing to do" for obvious reasons, despite preferring aguirRe GLQuake because at the time that was the only engine that could "play everything" including maps like the Red Masque of Death (huge Tronyn map, first limit buster map).

The next thought I had was realizing that GLQuake wouldn't have the texture visible because GLQuake didn't support fullbright textures.

At the time that meant engines like ProQuake and aguirRe's GLQuake. I think that might have been the first time I understood what the goals of FitzQuake were. 
Thanks Mankrip 
But I'm still blocked and there doesn't seem like I can get around it the way things are on Twitter.

I do suspect it is run by someone who is on here and/or the Discord-channel, so if you see this post:

What happened? 
New Jam Suggestion. 
For when DM4 Jam and any subsequent ones have finished:


End Map Jam.

Make a replacement End map for Quake's original rather underwhelming End map. The idea is to stick approximately to the End map's theme and to the original Quake's style, but make something more suitably climactic both in design and gameplay.

Rules:

1. Id1 only. Run in Quakespasm or whatever. No coloured lighting no fog.
2. Id1 or subtly modified Id1 textures only.
3. Map must start with dropping into the pit as per the current End.bsp, and must include Shub in some form.
4. Map should feature some form of cavern/cave system as per the current End.bsp , mixing this with other themes and structures are allowed and encouraged.
5. Map should stick to approximately the maximum level of detail in the most complex stock Quake maps. This isn't a rigid requirement but is to focus mappers on making a suitable End map that would be the finale of the Quake game, rather the mega-detailed mega-complicated 2018 epic.
6. Any other queries just stick to the fucking theme okay.


Thoughts? 
Sounds Good 
Sounds like a great way to get people to focus mostly on gameplay instead of spending 90% of the construction time wanking over brushwork :D 
Well 
Like the Jam Idea, but hate your rules, especially 1. (cause of coloured lighting & fog) and 5. (I want to make a mega-detailed mega-complicated 2018 not-epic.) 
Sounds Like 
A good plan for June 22nd. 
 
@Shambler

I think you don't even remember this, but i just found these two screenshots in a really old CD-RW =D

Some crap "art" i did 17 years ago, when you closed the doors of TeamShambler reviews:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-L1dJ7bNfMXI/Wp1g87Hu31I/AAAAAAAALi4/8c8qZfuiK90kBeC8oHPdTGy3Je6GhLE8QCLcBGAs/s1600/shambler1.jpg

And it became the pic of the day on planetquake =D

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7ES0R2fTZc4/Wp1g55kbEBI/AAAAAAAALi0/OCILcwUTmWArc3VaEEieih-ivoGfwWozgCLcBGAs/s1600/planetquake1.jpg 
 
@tribal

That was you?? Wow, I remember that well, it was pretty touching <3 , I think I had it as a desktop for a while after :)

@Bal

You're not invited to the Jam, what bit of "making a suitable End map" are you struggling with?? :p 
 
imagine if Tribal was actually TriBal and we had three embodiments of Bal. Quake mapping would be pretty nuts. 
Maybe If I Merge With Tribal... 
We'd get QuadBal. 
We Already Have TrIDaz Tho. 
 
@Shambler I Really Like This Idea... 
It's pretty restrictive but hey why not? I can live with it. I'd reach out to Ionous if you decide to move forward with it. I think he has some upcoming plans for another jam. If I had known ahead of time dm4 jam may not have happened. 
@Shambler I Really Like This Idea... 
It's pretty restrictive but hey why not? I can live with it. I'd reach out to Ionous if you decide to move forward with it. I think he has some upcoming plans for another jam. If I had known ahead of time dm4 jam may not have happened. 
@Shambler I Really Like This Idea... 
It's pretty restrictive but hey why not? I can live with it. I'd reach out to Ionous if you decide to move forward with it. I think he has some upcoming plans for another jam. If I had known ahead of time dm4 jam may not have happened. 
Damn, A Triple Post... 
Hey, wait a second! 
@spy 
It's the server not me! 
 
it's probably happening at the browser level, it's submitting the form twice. I either need to block it on the server or disable the submit button on the client after you submit once. 
 
Blocking it on the server works better, because at least the server will have received it.

Unreliable mobile networks often fails to send data, forcing the user to re-send it. I've already had problems with websites doing the "disable button" approach, thus forcing me to reload the whole page and start everything over. 
Does Anybody Still Play Deathmatch? 
I've pretty much finished a single player map (still looking for some people to playtest it though), and I'm wondering whether it's worth the trouble of making the necessary adjustments to make the map work in deathmatch. Does anybody of you still play dm, let alone on newly released maps?

I'm just frustrated, because I've spent about six hours working on dm modifications, and at some point, during my tests some func_doors/plats started glitching. I have a feeling it might have something to do with me placing simplified dm func_doors over more complicated single player doors that are killtargeted at some point, but at this moment, I can't be bothered trying to pinpoint the root of the problem.

Personally, I don't play deathmatch (although I probably would if I had family/friends here that wanted to play it too), but even if I don't play, I like to keep the possibility there on my maps, JUST in case somebody wanted to play dm. Also, I'm kind of perfectionist in that regard, feeling like the map's somehow broken/incomplete, if it can't be played on dm. 
 
The few people who still play deathmatch stick to a very limited set of maps, so don't expect any interest from that direction. Plus single player levels are often not favorable for dm because their layout and spaces are not as tightly focused as in dedicated dm maps. In this sense, it's not worth the effort.

However, you can still put some dm stuff in if you like! I support DM in most of my maps just for the heck of it. It's a fun bonus challenge to make things work on both modes. It shouldn't break the single player part of course. As for your doors, instead of killtargeting them you should probably make them spawn only on dm in the first place (combine not_easy + not_normal + not_hard spawnflags = only dm). 
I Think It Still Doesn't Work 
Actually, I did what you suggested right from the get-go. Allow me to explain: My SP map consists of multiple partially exclusive branches, where some doors are openable only on one path and closed on the other. That's why I have this convoluted system of killtargeting the other paths' doors when the player chooses a path. It has nothing to do with killtargeting the doors for deathmatch mode. Sorry for not providing enough background.

Making this map had me learn the hard way, that you can't have other entities intersect killtargetable entities on the map file, lest you want them glitching out ingame. So on this map, instead of placing two versions of the same door (one for each path) inside each other, I had to clip the doors and make sure they didn't touch each other.

And unless I'm mistaken, the rule seems to apply even if the entities are set to spawn in mutually exclusive skill levels/deathmatch: My doors/platforms are broken because my DM doors (set to spawn only on dm) are intersecting the killtargetable SP doors (set to spawn only in sp). I haven't tested this conclusively, but based on today's fumblings of mine, that's my current hunch.

But yeah, I also do the dm adjustments for the heck of it. Maybe not because it's very fun for me, per say, but more like for the sake of completeness. I mean, the original id sp maps are playable in both modes, so unless my map's completely unsuitable for it, it should be made compatible, as well. Oh me and my stupid obsessions, right? :) 
 
I don't see why killtargeting intersecting doors should be a problem. And definitely not across skill levels/game modes. Maybe you didn't set doors_dont_link somewhere? 
Make Sure You Set "Don't Link" Spawnflag (4) On Touching Doors 
 
Dumptruck, SleepwalkR 
Sounds good dumptruck! I've just got temp housing for a short time in Santa Monica, scrambling to find something else asap. I'll ping you when the dust settles.

SleepwalkR, nice to hear from you bro. I'm just over here for work. It was here or Berlin, but the wife doesn't like the cold... hah.

Sorry for the late reply! 
I Learned Stuff Today 
I did some testing, and it seems that doors DO work right, as long as they are not made to spawn at the same time, so negke's original suggestion was correct. So it looks like some other dm modification of mine broke my map causing some func_doors/plats to float in random places (they can't be touched and are visible at some points and then disappear at some other points; maybe the place-dependant visibility has something to do with vis, which dictates when to render them). Guess I gotta save and test my map more often, when doing the dm modifications next time.

My test map has four doors, or actually seven doors, where three of the doors have two doors overlapping each other. One of the doors in such a door set is a regular func_door with no triggers, while the other one is a door with the targetname "killable door".

The first door from the left is a door, which spawns both of the doors regardless of skill level or deathmatch flags. That door glitches out always when I play the map: When I press a button that killtargets the killable door, it also eats the other half of the regular triggerless door (a double door, which btw should be opening when I get close enough, but in this case won't budge).

The second door set is built in a way, that has both of the doors spawn only in easy skill level. In all other modes only one of the doors will spawn. That door works, as long as you don't play the map on easy, i.e. when only one of the doors spawn.

The third door set is a variation, where the other door spawns only in deathmatch and the other only in single player. No problems there, since there never is a situation where both of the doors spawn.

The fourth door is kind of unrelated to the whole dilemma. It's just a test on an alternative method on how to have the doors behave differently depending on skill level or deathmatch flag. I just put four trigger_multiples in front of the door, each opening the door in their respective play modes.

One final note: While writing this post and after already having uploaded the test map, I decided to fiddle around with the "don't link" flags, after remembering Qmaster's suggestion. Maybe the door linking causes the killable door to kill some of the triggerless door. I tried adding the "don't link" flag for both doors, which sure enough prevented the killtarget from killing any part of the triggerless door, but the triggerless door still refused to open upon approaching it. Only now did I discover that the "don't link" flag disables the func_door's ability to open automatically without a trigger. I was able to solve the problem though, by giving the door a triggername "regular door" and then putting a trigger_multiple in front of it.

So thank you, Qmaster! :) It seems that door linking was the root cause of this weird "killtarget door affecting other doors" behavior! Now only if knew just what it was that caused my doors and platforms glitch out in my main map... T_T 
Not Quite Generally Abusive Text, I Know 
Just as an addendum, I know that my previous post was heavily mapping stuff, but I didn't want to move the post to Mapping help, away from the discussion chain, which started with me asking about whether people still played deathmatch. Come to think, I should have probably posted that one in the mapping thread from the get-go, since that post had also mapping related stuff in it. So, apologies for the misplaced discussion! 
Yeah Berlin Can Be Cold 
But the summers are super nice! If you ever make it here, let me know ;-) 
I Was In Germany One Summer. 
The week started at 34'c, cooled down briefly to 26'c for a day or two, then went back up to 35/36'c. It was not the cold I was looking for. 
Esreal 
Normally doors that touch (not necessarily only the brushes but also their bounding boxes) are linked. This means, for instance, on a door where one part moves to the left and the other part to the right, if the player approaches from one side, the other side opens as well, or if one side is blocked, the other one acts correspondingly (as opposed to one side opening while the other remains closed).
The "don't link" spawnflag makes each func_door an indivual entity independent of its surroundings and other doors it touches.

Unrelated to this is that a func_door with a targetname will not generate a trigger volume of its own so you must create a trigger_once or _multiple (or some other entity) to make it open. The "don't link" spawnflag has nothing to do with this. 
Are You Sure? O: 
I tested just the "don't link" spawnflag again without any targetnames on a different simple test room, and it seems to me that the "don't link" flag on a func_door entity prevents the door from generating a trigger volume around itself; even if there is no other func_door touching the "don't link" door. It just doesn't budge. Perhaps you could try it out yourself, and if you can get the door to open itself with a "don't link" flag, I'd like to see the map. o: 
Quake Soundtrack Babble 
Truth 
Aaaaaaaargh 
REtards 
It uses polygons + game is dark and brown + 1996 = Quake 
Caffeine Offering Revenue To Game Developers 
Caffeine.tv is a new livestreaming platform in development. They are planning to let game developers get a share of revenue from having their games streamed. There are no details available yet, but here is a small announcement and an invitation for game devs to contact them.

https://medium.com/@benkeighran/when-broadcasters-make-money-game-developers-should-too-17184b03ccb2

No idea how many cents you could make to fund your favorite Quake editor's development with 24/7 mapping streams. I guess that might not be the intended use of this feature.

However, I thought it's interesting enough to share, in case you want to follow how they implement their idea in the future. 
 
I'm more interested in the fact I've been spelling 'caffeine' wrong all these years when I'm not caught by spellcheck. I before E except after C, my ass. 
Ciaffiene? 
 
Relevant 
Shambler: environments can be hostile without being empty repetitive and characterless, killes
Killes: no 
I Imagine Killes More Like 
 
No idea how many cents you could make to fund your favorite Quake editor's development with 24/7 mapping streams. I guess that might not be the intended use of this feature.

The game is Quake. The money would go to id/Zenimax. 
Ever Notice 
How dead it is on here on Friday evenings. 
Enjoy The Silence 
Hey, if it gets any livelier in here a funeral might break out! (queue cheesy drum roll.)

Seriously, I used to live next to a cemetery... 
 
People are having sex. With Shub-Niggurath. 
Drinking 
Is what they are doing I suppose 
Whaaht?? You Mean We Aren't All Mapping?! 
 
QueueMaster 
You must be from England...! 
@redfield 
A bunch of ppl mapping for dm4jam. This place might liven up a bit Monday or Tuesday. At least I hope so! 
Hooray! 
 
:( 
I've tried mapping for a little bit but I just can't get my head into and/or around it...

Still, I'll keep plodding on and I'll keep enjoying the great things you guys put out. :) 
 
Ha!

Storytelling in Quake is quite different nowadays. 
@Hipnotic Rogue 
Have you tried my TB2 tutorials? 
Lightmapped Static Meshes & Portal Skyboxes In Quake 
do either of these things exist with modern tools / engines? 
Hmm 
Lightmapped static mesh: only as an external bsp....actually I think those are fullbright now that I think of it.

Skybox: nope. 
 
What is a "portal skybox"?

Anyway, the only widespread skybox format in Quake is the Q2 style one. 
 
@qmaster - interesting... and lame! So meshes would be vertex lit...

@mankrip - a.k.a 3d skyboxes 
How About Lightmapped Water? 
plz say yes. 
 
do either of these things exist with modern tools / engines?

Does using quake 3 bsp in FTE / DP count as "quake"?

If so, then it's a yes for lightmapped static meshes baked into the bsp i think.

I've no idea if anyone has ever tried making a single player quake map using q3 bsp though. Certainly, I've never heard of one. 
 
yeah, just curious if that stuff has made its way into q1bsp. I know q3bsp has had that stuff for some time. 
 
Lightmapped water is in FTE, i believe. 
 
Does using quake 3 bsp in FTE / DP count as "quake"?
About as much as using bsp2+skyboxes+lits in the same engines does. 
@30109 
External bsp models (i.e. ammo boxes) aren't inherently fullbright, just the vanilla ones are brightly lit so as to appear as such. Engines with vanilla-style behavior (i.e. QS) directly display the model the way it's lit in the external bsp; more eyecandy oriented engines (i.e. Darkplaces) will either use the same behavior or light the entity as if it were a brush model within the map itself depending on what snazzy lighting options you have chosen.

If you open up the source for one of the id1 external bsp models (they're included in the Quake map sources download with all the E1-E4 maps, start, etc), you'll see it's just a brush/brushes (literally one square brush for an ammo box) with a couple lights placed around it to light the model. 
 
RTLights are overkill for when the user just want the ammo boxes to adjust their light level to the world lighting.

That said, most pickup items in Quake don't have fullbright-colored details, and can easily be missed when their lighting is adjusted to very dark places. I've had to add _luma maps to all ammo boxes' external textures due to that. 
 
Just within the past several days:

- Mueller subpoenas the Trump Organization, demanding documents with regards to ties to Russia. (Note he had the option to simply request the documents - he opted to demand them by law)

- The mask comes off Cambridge Analytica's influence in multiple past elections via using "leaked" personal data from Facebook.

And now: Trump declares he will meet Putin (whom he has already congratulated on his "election" "victory") to discuss limiting an arms race and boosting economic cooperation between the two countries (via AFP).

This is going to be the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact 2, isn't it. RIP NATO. 
We're Through The Looking Glass Now People 
Mid-terms are our only hope at the moment, but I am not too confident in my countrymen. 
I'm Confident In The 2018 Red Wave 
For you brits, sorry to hear about the sell-out. So much for a clean brexit. 
As A Canadian 
Our leader is the biggest joke in the world. Still, we haven't banned people from our country for saying that Islamic fundamentalism is kinda fucked up or criminally convicted Youtubers for making jokes like the UK just did. Jesus they would CRUCIFY classic comedians like Bill Hicks and George Carlin these days. However make sure to use my proper pronouns Shalrath and Voreling's or I will report you to one of our "Human Rights Commissions" which will turn your life upside-down lol.

And our intelligence services I'm sure are doing some nefarious shit as we are part of the creepily named "Five Eyes"(speaking of Shub...), but not as bad as GCHQ or the American Deep State, which seems determined to protect Hillary Clinton, the single most corrupt presidential candidate in American history, at all costs. Who cares if the DNC rigged the primary against Sanders and Wikileaks exposed it (and they've never even denied it lol in court the DNC lawyers actually argued the DNC had the right to rig the primary as part of free speech, that makes our system look pretty damn good in comparison). Let's all just sit by while the CIA announces they're going after Wikileaks with a 300 person team, all for doing what journalists are supposed to do - publish information from whistleblowers.

https://contraspin.co.nz/beingjulianassange/

As Tom Waits put it in "God's Away On Business," "The ship is sinking." 
Politics On Func_? Oh Boy! 
I'm pretty sure that 45 is giving HRC a run for her money on the "most corrupt" status.

In any case, American soft power is as weak as it's ever been at this point. Trump is being curb-stomped by Putin and Xi, which... is not a lot of fun to watch. I really need to start learning Mandarin... 
Something Like Python Control API For Q1? 
Hi all,

Is there something like a Python based interface for quake?
It would make life easier if you want to link it with some neural network research and train bots or 'players'.
(Real life work include machine learning and human movement so Im interested in bringing a bit of quake fun in my life again :) )

Any pointers appreciated.

Cheers

PS: Im aware of Doom links to reinforcement learning. 
Daemonix = Carmack??? 
I'm unaware of any Python interface but I know Joshua "Skelly" was doing some kind of Python project for Quake. You can find him here: https://twitter.com/JoshuaSkelly 
No, It Has Not. :( 
 
Gucci Shades On My Braids When I Escalade 
 
@dumptruck_ds 
hehe just call me J :)

Thanks for the info Ill text him and see if he is working with Python or some simple API. 
Ok, The Cantilever Counterbalance Thing Convinced Me... 
#30134 
Pffftt. I was always taught that it was because the cost of real estate was based only on the extents of the ground floor area, so they "cheated" the system by bulging out the upper floors. 
That Verywell Could Be The Case Nowadays. 
The answers change across history of course. 
Sp Map 
you come to a tall black (runic/metal?) spikey tower in deep chasm, later you go in and fight in semi-open dome, not dm4jam_breezeep, not dm4jam_bloodshot, not unforgiven 
Maybe It Is The Map In Your Dreams, One You Will Make Yourself 
 
 
Really black structures in dark backgrounds doesn't look good without bumpmapping. Some kind of lighting is needed to make its shape recognizable. 
What's The Status On Https? 
feels scary logging in here :-o

It was quite easy to set it up on my server... 
System Shock 1 Source Code RELEASED (MAC) 
For those interested, the source code for the original System Shock (1994) has been released. Please refer to here for all future mod/code-delving discussions:
https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=10009

Synopsis: MAC version only, but all game logic is present. Night Dive Studios to release a mofied version of the source code at a later date for free to anyone who owns the System Shock Enhanced edition. This will bring much needed features into the game directly in NDS's port for PC.

I for one, will enjoy using this to help with my fan remake to help replicate a few details in the game: http://www.indiedb.com/games/citadel (shameless plug)

-JosiahJack, aka Qmaster
P.S. Citadel is my other project I work on when not mapping for Quake or updating my Keep mod. Go map! ;) 
#30145 
no https because someone MiTM-ing your func account and using it to shitpost will be the hilarious af 
 
hilarious af rn frfr famalam 
#30146 
Citadel, sounds exciting, is gorilla-tiger mutant ready? will run under Win Vista SP2 64bit pls? 
Gor-Tiger Detected At 83m, Idle 
Should Work On XP+ 
 
Enjoyed 
both System Shocks and first two Thieves a lot some 15 years ago (and both Ultima Underworld games before) 
So. 
Remember Maddox, that angry internet guy with hilarious rants from the last decade and a half? He's an absolute joke now.

https://medium.com/@OtherkinLawyer/lolsuit-maddox-dick-masterson-fa9c4a4f4686 
Otp 
if you refer to me, remember that I have never had a bad word about a purple ox 
Madfox > Maddox 
Maddox is an interesting example of the "arc" internet celebrities seem to go through, from getting an audience by rebelling against the bullshit of their day and thus fulfilling a public demand for common sense, to letting it go to their head, becoming out of touch, condescending to their own audience, and lashing out like fools (there are so many examples).

Madfox on the other hand, just consistently kicks ass. He brings Dr. Seuss to Quake. Btw Madfox I played your last map and loved it (lol the swarms of flies were awesome, layout was good too, atmosphere very retro), but I haven't had a chance to do any new reviews since the AD one. 
So .... 
I decided to a bit of spamming.

Not SleepWalker/TrenchBroom 1.0 release spamming, but rather Baker "slightly bored level" spamming.

While conducting some "I can't think of anything on Netflix" level boredom spamming, I post at ESReality and get flagged as spammer.

So I email, and who replies? Sujoy!!!

The Quakeworld rocket jumped out of lava guy!!

/Lame story ... perhaps ... but better than the nothingburgers the rest of you twats aren't posting.

/Oh yeah, fuck you. Figuratively. Like I figure that is the right thing to say. Because ... like seriously ... why is it dead silent here.

(Attempt UK impressionist post. Probably failed. Whatever ...) 
 
Oh wow! I asked Sujoy to fix broken image links and he did!

/Better than you arseclowns! Take that, mankrip! Why single out mankrip you might ask? Well, if I said 'Take that Shambler! there is a chance he might ban me. So yeah, that's why!!! 
 
like seriously ... why is it dead silent here.

Judging from the DM4Jam release, they're mapping. There's a lot of good momentum thanks to TrenchBroom and dumptruck's video series. 
 
/Twas a joke, mk :D 
 
Kind of crazy that Sujoy is still involved with that site/community.

Fun to hear the old names... makes me want to go sit in the Stanford CS building basement playing 3wave CTF all night again. 
He-can't-keep-getting-away-with-it! 
I GOT THE FLAG!!!!!!!!!!!! 
I'm not really old school -- I'm faux old school like a pretender that values the old school culture, but yeah --- wasn't there.

That being said, I did a double homage in the QuakeDroid thread:

This pic ...

http://quakeone.com/quakedroid/media/rubicon2.png

1) Screams FitzQuake metslime.
2) I GOT THE FLAG!!!!!!!

I couldn't resist the CTF reference.

**** I GOT THE FLAG!!!! **** 
Wow 
@sock that looks tedious. I tend to func_detail and plan my brushes for detail as I go but to each his own. 
I Agree... It's Quiet 
I think it's because #tf Discord channel is so popular. i.e. ~95% of the conversations re: DM4Jam happened there. 
 
rabble rabble discord ruins every community it touches etc 
@Spud 
I love func and assume it's not going to change much (for good reason) but Discord makes it very easy to share images, links and embedded streams etc. it's really enticing compared to a simple forum. It's a different experience to be sure and func cannot be beat for archival information and its vast knowledge base. 
Silence The Discord! 
Wait wrong game reference. 
RE 30161 UK Impressionist 
lol, read it in Red Dwarf's Lister's voice 
Christ Has Returned! 
Hmm 
Never heard of him before, BicMacDavis that is! c; 
And That's Never A Good Thing! 
 
Textures From The Blender Foundation 
There is a curated collection of images and textures for 3D work on the Blender site. The license is CC-0: free to use anywhere, for any purpose.

https://cloud.blender.org/p/textures/ 
Co-op With Some Friends 
Hi!

Me and a friend decided we should put on Quake and play some custom maps and custom campaigns together (and probably we'll have some other people to join us too) and maybe do even some deathmatch from time to time.

My question is... well, I really like the Quakespasm engine.
But I don't know if it's really that great for this purpose.
I know it's the most used and most functional with custom maps though, and so what I want to know is if it's possible to play such levels in co-op with that engine. I mean, we don't want to curse each time we have to host the game, nor using some odd software to do that. So, is Quakespasm good to go, or should I look onto some other engine (any reccomendation if so?)? 
Yup QS Is Good For Coop. 
Keep calm and carry on. 
Coop Online 
For local Coop (on a LAN) Quakespasm would be fine. But for Online play you'll probably want to use FTEQW.

Keep in mind whoever will be the server needs to poke a hole in their router to allow connections. It's not impossible but info is tough to find. FTEQW has a wiki though and you should be okay. Good luck!

http://fte.triptohell.info/index.php?p=downloads 
Yeah It's For Online Matches. 
Thanks a lot! 
Whoa, Hold Your Biscuits 
If you really like Quakespasm, but want the networking superiority of FTE, then use Quakespasm-Spiked

It was specifically made for this exact scenario. 
And The Linkeh 
@Kinn 
It was specifically made for this exact scenario.

I was unaware that QSS had any network improvements. I thought it was solely the FTE/DP visual effects. Very interesting and good to know. 
@spike - Sv_gameplayfix_setmodelrealbox 0 <----- 
Quoth 2.2 added some stuff to try to support DarkPlaces by turning off all the irregular stuff stuff in DarkPlaces.

Sadly, unless you want to weird up Quakespasm Spiked you better not call your cvar sv_gameplayfix_setmodelrealbox.

Quoth will decide set it to zero, changing the normal behavior of Quakespasm to whatever physics irregularities await for sv_gameplayfix_setmodelrealbox 0 --- which will cause a FitzQuake style engine to not use FitzQuake style bounding boxes.

What will happen? I don't know. 
 
QSS still has no network prediction. If your players are in different countries then FTE is still a noticeably better choice.
Vs QS, QSS provides proper network nack-compression (using FTE's network protocol) meaning much higher entity limits (at least for mostly static ents like monsters, while dynamic ents [like AD's qc particles] will still have higher limits but at the cost of slight potential lag).
Mods like AD can FTE's/QSS's particle system to perform effects clientside instead of serverside, which has significant reductions.
Note that the visual effects in QSS have defaults that exactly match QS (unless a mod or user explicitly uses the stuff that would be impossible in QS). QSS was never about the visuals, but rather fixing all the bugs and limitations that pissed myself off with QS (primarily networking and QC related). The particles are there just because they are actually useful to mods like AD - and especially so when networked.

@Baker
sv_gameplayfix_setmodelrealbox is the 'correct' name for the feature, and renaming it will just cause problems elsewhere. If quoth needs it on in order to function then quoth shouldn't be turning it off even if it only affected DP. Additionally, if its value actually changes anything then quoth is buggy (and bugged in either vanilla/dp/fte or fitzquake/qs). Presumably if no one noticed then it doesn't matter and might not even be buggy.
Either way, 0 has more predictable results when replacement models are in use, and is potentially faster for dedicated servers, so hurrah for buggy quoth. And boo hiss at fitzquake for being incompatible with quake, and I really wish I could justify setting it to 0 by default in QSS, and renaming the cvar would just mean that noone would remember the new name breaking any mods that do actually need a specific value for that cvar.
So, won't rename. I prefer consistency to randomness. 
Uuuuh... 
That Quakespasm Spiked seems indeed very interesting!
Thanks a lot!

Anyway I don't want to put any graphic bullshit in it, really. lol
I like how Quake looks on its own and Quakespasm with the modern resolution etc. enhanches it a bit already. And it's got very cool visuals, from what I've seen from Custom Gamer.

Perfect!
Dankeschön! 
No Problem. 
We're all in the same country anyway, so it's good.
I guess. 
 
I really wish I could justify setting it to 0 by default in QSS

FWIW, last time we discussed it in the FitzQuake thread ( http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60306&start=691&end=714 ), metl confirmed he introduced the change by accident and recommended fixing it as well.

I support changing to vanilla behaviour by default, at least for a "testing" release of qss, and asking for help testing mods that were likely tested only on Fitzquake / Quakespasm. 
 
What was the changed introduced to fix?

Did it have something to do with blinking Chthon or blinking Shub? Perhaps larger monsters "disappearing" momentarily in very rare circumstances when mostly behind walls on certain maps like end.bsp.

Knowing what the change was intended to address would indicate what the consequences are for reverting it.

Some known mods affected by non-original Quake bounding boxes: Malice, QRally, X-Men. Maybe Shrak for Quake. Malice in particular has an enemy with, if I recall, 2 large parts, and the top part will disappear with FitzQuake bounding boxes. 
Summary Please 
Could someone explain to me the effects of

sv_gameplayfix_setmodelrealbox 0

and

sv_gameplayfix_setmodelrealbox 1

I believe at the time I understood the impact, and that it resolved an issue we had with darkplaces setting larger hitboxes on sprites than other engines - vanilla engines set the hitbox to the dimensions of the actual sprite, while darkplaces set them larger by a factor of √2. We had sprites that were solid, and wanted to support mapper supplied sprites, so we couldn't use a pre-computed size.

Obviously we need to balance the need to get that right (because it could make a map unbeatable if the extra large hitbox blocked a critical path in map) with the negative impact setting the cvar on has. I've read the linked thread and this one, and I've got that it's bad, but not a clear explanation of why.

If it helps, until the next version, you can override the Quoth default settings by adding sv_gameplayfix_setmodelrealbox 1 to quoth.cfg 
@Preach 
When you do setmodel on an mdl in vanilla quake (aka realbox 0), the engine ALWAYS does a setsize of +/- 16 (on account of the loader not bothering to calculate the size - note that sprites use [maxwidth,maxwidth,maxheight]/2 for the size).

In QS (aka realbox 1), it instead does the setsize using the mins/maxs values from the mdl.

Note that if the mod calls setsize afterwards then there's no effective difference (unless it uses mins/maxs to do so...).

Hull collisions are biased by the mins+size values, while bbox collisions are affectet by the mins/maxs of both entities.
This means that droptofloor fails quite often, resulting in items getting removed or dropping through floors making maps impossible to complete.
Or entities with their feet inside/above the ground, or biased sideways.
Or tracelines firing from the wrong place.
Or positions being calculated using different offsets...
So yeah, quite a few ways things can go wrong, but as most mods call setsize you tend to not notice any serious issues.

Regarding Quoth specifically, I had a brief scan through some (probably very old) decompiled(eww) code.
I did spot some potential issues, but mostly where the entity was meant to be non-solid anyway.
One issue is misc_explobox but only with replacement mdls.
There's another potential one when developer is 4, or something, which I'm guessing isn't common.
I also spotted one place where .solid was changed without relinking (ie: before setmodel/setsize/setorigin instead of after), but as it had velocity any issues from that would last at most one frame, so probably noone will ever notice it without reading the code.
So I don't think quoth will have any serious issues with either value.
The cvar is not meant to have any effect on sprites (even in DP, which assumes all sprites are round regardless of cvars).

Replacement models are a huge issue (ESPECIALLY when mdls and bsps are quite so interchangeable). As a result, making the behaviour dependant upon the extension rather than the format makes a lot of sense.

Anyway, that's my perspective. 
Urm, Right, Summary. 
I wouldn't worry about it too much regarding quoth. You might want to go through your code anyway, but I wouldn't loose any sleep over it at all.

If you want your model's feet to properly sit on the ground, you might still want to provide explicit sizes to ensure that mdls can work fine in both vanilla and for QS.
Note that explicit sizes can help for QS too, such that you can have geometry that extends beneath the ground (like in other frames) while ensuring that the frame you want is actually sized properly (and not biased sideways, either). 
Misc_model <-- ? 
What about misc_model?

(i.e. models that might be anything the mapper wants and are unknown to QuakeC. Hence no setsize because it could be anything the mapper is using). 
#30197 
I don't see a misc_model anywhere.
If you mean mapobject_custom then yes, it doesn't call setsize.
However, its also both movetype_noclip and not solid. Thus its size is irrelevant to anything else. Therefore, not buggy.

The same is true of a number of other special-case static/semi-static entities.

Note that QC decompilers are utter shite, so take whatever I say on this subject with a pinch of salt, but what I see looks like quoth survives okay with whichever setting that cvar has (at least until someone replaces maps/b_explo*.bsp with an mdl or even a more detailed bsp). 
 
Maybe this issue shall self-resolve then, given enough time. 
Thanks Spike 
We want to keep vanilla compatibility, so fixing the code to work correctly there and leaving the cvar as it is seems best. I'll add some setsize calls to the exploding boxes as I can see the issue with the replacement models, that shouldn't be allowed to create a difference size hull.

I think from there I can figure out the other possible issues - it would be very annoying if the feature intended to let you visualise the size of the triggers accidentally changed the size of those triggers at the same time... 
On Second Thoughts 
Probably no latent bug in that case, because triggers always initialise the size to self.mins/maxs right after a setmodel.

Imagine someone added a trigger_multiple entity, and set the model to progs/shambler.mdl. In vanilla it would get a size of 16x16x16. The cvar setting we've chosen makes sure that's consistent in other engines. But all of that happens before developer 4 comes along and performs a setmodel without a setsize. So the developer 4 code is inflicting a 16x16x16 bbox on a trigger which was already that size. Right? 
Preach 
maps with a trigger_multiple using progs/shambler.mdl deserve to break...
(if only because ents that expect inline models tend to not bother to precache said models.)
But if a map uses it, and some other entity already precached it, then you'd get a trigger sized according to the model, yes, which would differ between engines. And there's not really anything you can do about it, other than telling people not to do stupid things.

Side note: mdls pitch differently from spr and bsp too. so if you're using vectoangles or makevectors for the entity then you're again going to need to know if its a mdl or not. There's nothing you can do to avoid that, either (other than fte's r_meshpitch cvar that then breaks the rest of the mod). Replacement models are a real clusterfuck in this regard, but thankfully its normally a pain to configure pitch angles so most maps manage to avoid issues there.

When I mentioned developer 4, I meant blink_on does a setmodel-without-setsize, but its solid_not and movetype_none, so it doesn't really matter (and is fixed in monster_teleport_go once it does start to matter, but will show the wrong size with eg r_showbboxes until then).

Regarding developer 2 (read: quoth's RestoreTriggerModels function) then that function can find items too, not just trigger_multiple etc.
Thanks to droptofloor setting FL_ONGROUND (meaning they won't try to move), you probably won't notice, but those items will indeed end up with the wrong sizes because of that setmodel call, so it might be a good idea to preserve the original mins+maxs. I don't think its important for trigger_* though, they'll just end up with the size they had before. 
Thanks Spike (again) 
maps with a trigger_multiple using progs/shambler.mdl deserve to break...
(if only because ents that expect inline models tend to not bother to precache said models.)


You can get away with that in Quoth, because the ability to automatically precache external BSP models extends to other types of models (another example of QC not knowing the model type there!).

I'll probably just make sure that developer 2 skips over items in that case, but thanks again for the check. 
I Have A Stats For You. 
At 47 maps in 2018 so far, we're better than we were in 2017, with 46 maps released by the end of June. 
Frecache Preachache 
Why do we still care if a model is precached? 
@otp 
Sweet. I was just taking a look at the spreadsheet. Thanks for keeping track. 
 
I recorded a blind playthrough of "The Tenacious Tentacle" by Socks, and since there is no official post of this map in the foruns i will just post it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9nfeLZm7Lc

But, seriously, why isn't a post about this level here? I only found it by accident (i never search for new maps in Quaddicted because I thought all new maps were posted first here in func_) The map was released this year, it uses AD monsters, it was made only with 100 brushes (so mappers can use it as a reference for the 4° competition) and it's awesome =D

You can download it here: https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/ad_b100_sock.html 
Good Point About The 100 Brush Reference 
Haven't checked that map out yet, but it looks good.

I'm trying to contact Breezeep, does anyone have his email address? 
 
But, seriously, why isn't a post about this level here? I'm not sure why any map author would avoid posting here but I have my suspicions.

Is that QSS-Admod in the video? Looks good. :) 
@dumptruck_ds 
Yep, it is the QSS-Admod engine =D 
Yes, Tronyn? 
Check my profile. 
New Map 
Hello everybody,

since I stopped mapping around 1999 I'm a bit rusty at this and need some pointers. A while ago I finally tried out SleepwalkR's truly excellent TrenchBroom for the first time seriously and made a small DM map with it, which I quite like. Now it's more or less done and I'm looking for a way to share it and maybe get some feedback. Is there currently something like a repository or a place where people look for Q1 DM maps? Or do you just upload it somewhere and post a link here? Are there still review sites? Do people even play custom DM maps anymore?

Anyway, any help with this would be appreciated muchly.

headshot 
Headshot 
http://www.quaketastic.com would be an easy place to upload it.

username: quaketastic
pw: ZigguratVertigoBlewTronynsSocksOff 
 
Just make sure you pick the right directory unlike most people uploading there... :P 
Headshot 
Hello!

People usually use quaketastic.com to upload maps. Login info here: http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=3&start=15658

Also, here on func is news thread, just submit news with short description of the map, sceen and download link. So after news is approved it'll have its separate thread.

Hope this helps! 
Headshot! 
A new headshot map, omg!
I'd be up for giving it a spin online if that's happening.

Not much multiplayer going on around these parts anymore, the focus has mostly shifted to singleplayer maps. 
 
I think even the dedicated DM players left don't care that much for new maps, though you may want to post it at quakeworld.nu for feedback. No review sites to my knowledge.

Of course, it's always possible to throw in some monsters and we'll be all over it. 
Thanks! 
Thanks for the quick answers and great info! I just need to sort out a few niggles and then I'll upload a beta somewhere and post a link here, maybe we can meet on a server (Bal, anyone else?) and see what's what. The tricky part would probabaly be to meet there at the same time :-)

It'd be nice to get some feedback on balance and maybe sticky parts to clip before release. 
 
You can try posting here: https://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/12/maps-textures
Also if you are not afraid of new "tech" you can try Quake World Discord channel: http://discord.quake.world/ 
 
Just joined Discord, thanks. 
 
Awesome, also you can join our Discord here: https://discord.gg/3zgJQ 
General Data Protection Regulation 
Could this new EU-law affect func?
Anybody know something? 
 
My guess: Somebody would have to sue func i.e. metl, in order for anything to happen at all.
As there is nothing to win from that conflict, nothing happens and we all keep our status quo. 
Well 
Func could stop exposing everyone's IP address for a start.

It's funny how func doesn't require anyone's details or even an email address to create an account, but then exposes your ip on every post.

I guess that's why a lot of us use TOR when posting on func. 
Fuck Off Everybody Who Uses TOR. 
All of you belong in prison, you pedophilic porn peddlers. 
Fuck Off Everybody Who Uses TOR. 
All of you belong in prison, you pedophilic porn peddlers. 
Takes One To Know One, Eh? 
Well, otp hates me, so I must be doing something right. 
 
What specific harm could hit my devices, because of my IP-adress being revealed? Viruses homing in on me like a Vore-ball? 
Lol 
Of course I'm not talking about viruses or anything like that. I'm suggesting that it's better to keep the user's IRL identity private by default, without making them jump through hoops if they don't want their actual IP address appearing every time they post something on this public forum.

I'm just wondering what displaying the poster's IP address is supposed to deter.

If someone want to troll / spam this forum then displaying the IP address does fuck all to stop them, because the troll / spammer can easily spoof it (and interestingly they don't even need an account to post (fucking lololol)) 
I Agree 
The IP address should not be published. It should be replaced with a hash of the address plus some salt. 
Re: #30222 
I don't know. But, because I'm outside the EU and this is not a commercial website, maybe not? 
Hash Of It... 
Need to be careful how you do that, you'd need the server to store a distinct salt per IP. Otherwise an "attacker" could brute force the salt from knowledge of their own IP and hash, then use that to brute force the other IPs on the board. At that point you might as well just store each IP that's seen on the database, generate a unique ID for each one and tag each post with that. 
Hash, Salt, A Sprinkle Of Herbs.... 
Sure. But what is the reason for even displaying anything there in the first place? 
 
I suggest we display our accurate geolocation data instead, along with our Social Security number and blood type.

The more social, the better. 
I Think Originally The Idea Was 
To be able to identify trolls. But I don‘t remember, might be a case of we‘vv always done it this way. For the record, I‘d rather get rid of them. 
 
All trolls hide their ip address because it's so easy.

If the idea is to say "Oh he is posting from a proxy / TOR node then he must be a troll" then that means legit users either have to live with their location being exposed, or accept their troll status i guess? 
How About 
Don't troll?

You're not witty, you're not funny, you're just embarrassing and a pain in the ass. Fuck off back to whatever shithole you came from. 
Heheheh Otp..... You Just Described Yourself... Hauahuauhu *drools* 
Oops, forgot to log out and get behind 7 proxies. 
 
:qthink: 
Because No One Can Take Ips And Swat With Them. 
 
That Was The Original Idea 
Don‘t forget that this community is older than Tor. I agree that it doesn‘t make sense anymore. 
It's Nice Seeing All The New Nicknames Popping Up On Here 
I can only assume that means more players and mappers. 
#30242 
I'm stuggeling to conceive a second map after QUMP, because I want to be so much better. 
@brassbite 
Do a tribute map to one of your favorites. From there it will likely grow. I've done that twice and had good results. Sometimes you just need a place to start off. 
Woah. 
New headshot map? Epic. Don't worry about this single player nonsense, I'm sure people still appreciate a good dm map. (Sure, maybe nobody will actually play it, but what's new?)

I've probably said it before, but seeing FSDM3 for the first time was the moment I realised that custom maps could actually be not just as good as the id maps, but even better, potentially. That definitely inspired me to start making maps seriously, rather than just tinkering around making junk like everyone else in the early days. 
 
trying it without IP addresses. I think the arguments above are correct in that they don't provide much value or deterence nowadays. 
Thanks Metl! 
 
Lol That's Great! 
 
A Welcome Change 
I'm glad others are in general agreement with this, thanks metlslime. 
Metl 
But how will I know if it's really me? 
Fuck You 
otp [178.235.146.77] 
Wow Now I Will Be Hacked By A Retarded Drunk 
 
Well, You Can Suck My Hose 
instead 
I Still Luff You 
otp [178.235.146.77] 
Peace 
 
I Like How This Pos Constantly 
eating the ass's of the moders

you're never changed 
Should Be Moved To The Beef Thread Tho 
 
Lol 
 
бгг 
 
Spike Solved Quake 72 Fps Physics Problem 
Spike has solved the can't run above 72 fps Quake physics problem!

http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=61351

Download: Quakespasm Spiked V.10 - May 15 2018 
Hi, 
I am newbie for this forum.I happy to join this forum 
Welcome, Man 
to this den of evilness. Map fast and you will have a good time here. 
Welcome Aboard! 
It's always nice to see new people come home to Quake.

Have you played much Quake in the past or are you a 'total newbie'?
:) 
 
Ellen's email begins with "emily", a different name. And the Tarzan-style English in her post is typical of spambots.

Some spambots are coded to post innocent stuff and edit it after some days to include spammy links. It's a tactic to avoid moderators who only checks new posts. Thankfully Func_ doesn't allow editing. 
Mod.io 
What are your opinions on Mod.io? It sounds like a beefed up alternative to Quaddicted, including some kind of optional monetization/donations system for content authors, and an automated content upload system (AFAIK, uploading to Quaddicted is a fully manual process). 
Mod.io 
Yah let's monetise this quake shit yo 
 
QA$H MONEY 
Meh 
Requires developers to add content uploading into their software. Would be like if we had a separate utility to upload maps/mods or a console command addition, but someone would have to make it.

I mean I guess it could be nice, but I'm one who likes manual compiling so... 
 
Yes, it would be a job for engine developers.

Mark V supports installing from Quadiccted, but Mod.io seems to be a beefed up alternative. Imagine creating a mod and uploading it from the engine itself, with the engine automatically handling all the packaging and dependencies in a standardized way. 
Woo 
This is america
Don't catch you slipping now
Watch what I'm whipping now
This shit that I'm typing now 
GPUs 
How important is the GPU to Quake these days? I'm more familiar with Doom engines and I'm aware that the CPU is much more important than the GPU, even with OGL renderers such as GZDoom.

I know that BiTD the GPU was pretty important when the OGL version of Quake first hit but nowadays things seem to be very different.

Just a noob being nosy. 
Pretty Important 
If you plan to play Orl or AD maps with any kind of fluidity. 
CPU Is More Important To Doom Cuz Rachel Can't Code Worth Shit. 
 
 
Stupid question, but how do I set up Quake to automatically load last hard save after dying? By default it takes me back to the start of the level. Thanks. 
@camel 
F9 defaults to Quickload if I am remembering correctly. 
 
If you want to distinguish between quicksaves and other saves, you can also bind another key to save to some other named savefile. So you could bind a key that does "save foo" and then bind another key to do "load foo".

And depending on what you're trying to do here, it also might be useful to know that Mark V does three rotating autosaves named auto_save_0, auto_save_1, and auto_save_2. 
 
https://twitter.com/muk0r/status/1000922935001997312

Been poking at this 2D Shooter thing the last couple months. Slow going as I'm learning Unity and C# as I go but things are picking up pace. :)

Art is by:

https://twitter.com/Ezepov1/status/668824401597628416 
 
Yes F9 is quickload but I thought I seen some people on youtube autoload from last saved game just by hitting fire or jump upon dying. Don't think they're quickloading.
@Johnny Law: If I want to load a specific save (say second-to-last or older) then I don't mind going through the menu. Just thought there was a way to load most recent hard save at the click of a mouse. F6/F9 comes closest to what I want I guess. 
 
bind F2 "quicksave;menu_save"

Now, when you hit F2 and save the game, quickloading will load a state identical to the latest. 
 
That's the one, thanks mankrip 
 
Hmmmm, doesn't work. Seems to be trying to load quick.sav which doesn't exist. 
 
Put a "wait;" command between both commands, it should work.

Also, it will only work when you open the save menu by pressing F2. It won't work when the save menu is opened from the main menu. 
 
It keeps accessing quick.sav
I'm using QuakeSpasm 0.93 
 
bind F2 "save quick;menu_save"

works for me in Quakespasm.

Do any Quake engines have a command for "load the most recent save"? I don't know of any. 
 
yes that works, thanks ericw and mankrip. 
What's The Difference Between That 
And just hitting F6 to quicksave, then F9 to quick load? 
 
The difference is minimal, but if it doesn't hurt anything, there's no need to be against it.

The savegame subsystem in Quake is something that could be vastly improved, in both usability and robustness. But most people don't care. 
@Qmaster 
Not a whole lot, just thought there was a way to "quickload" most recent save by hitting fire instead of F9. By default when you die, hitting fire loads the start of the level. Would be nice if this loaded the last hard save as I don't use F6/F9. Habit :) 
@kinn 
any news on your map pak 
MRW When Reading Post #30290 
Ok Normal Answer 
I'm just sort of building stuff with the idea of it all being part of some full-length adventure game using modern quake engine tech, not really quake levels.

No imminent release date I'm afraid :} 
 
After the Wikia debacle and other transgressions, you'll have to release a Quake version to appease the Quake gods (Vondur)! 
Funny You Should Say That 
I was always aware that the chances of such a project going tits up are pretty high, so I am deliberately designing all the content in such a way so that if the aforementioned tits were to assume a vertical trajectory, then most of the stuff can be minimally reworked and released as Quake content without everything being lost. 
Thanks 
No imminent release date I'm afraid :}

gotta wait, anyway 
@Kinn 
I suppose it depends on if your project is a cow or a woman.

Either way, finish someday. 
#30297 
Spam. 
Is There A Tan/desert Version Of Ikwhite (Avanipaala) Or Ikblue Wad? 
 
I Remember 
seeing some screenshots of a cream colour like map, but don´t remember if it was coloured lighting or not or if it was released.

It the colour is more subtle you could go just with coloured lighting. The effect is good, just check the exterior of my jam 2 map. 
Ya, Ikwhite Plus Coloured Might Be The Best Bet..... 
Or I'll tan-ify it and make an iktan.wad for those desert persian arabic palaces. 
 
eventually IKBlue will be converted to all colors in the quake palette. IKPurple, IKGrey, IKFullbrightRow... 
Hexen2 Engine Supports 
up to two progs.dat files simultaneously, is it possible to modify Q engine to make it support a multiple progs.dat files

progs.dat
progs2.dat
progs3.dat etc 
IK Colours 
How hard is to make an IK red? And more importantly, how hard is to make the same change in all the textures so they stay coherent? I always wanted to learn to make textures and this seems like it could be an easy thing to try, but would like to know in advance. 
#30303 
hexen2's maplist.txt file gives a mapname->datname lookup. This particular mechanism sucks on account of conflicts over which version of the maplist.txt file to use (as FTE can run hexen2, it also supports this feature with quake, but don't expect any other quake engine to also support it).

Its more normal for engines to have some cvar to control which .dat to use, typically named sv_progs if it exists, but could have some other name.
This also sucks. A series of maps that need a specific .dat will need the qc to figure out which one is meant to be used and thereby switch accordingly using map restarts or some other ugly mechanism.
It would be better if the engine were to figure it out based on some worldspawn field, but then which one takes precidence - the field or the cvar?

but seriously, why exactly do you want multiple dats? are you having issues with the max_regs limit of 65536? its worth noting that once hexen2's hcc compiler started optimising things properly, they ditched the whole progs2 thing with their mission pack, for good reason.

If you're after mutators/addons or some such, then FTE does support those, but the vanilla gamecode has conditionals for things in unrelated areas - for instance making a new monster is far more messy than it should be if only due to ClientObiturary using hardcoded strings for when said 'non-existant' monster kills you. I'm sure you can see the problem. You can add in all sorts of hacks to wrap functions etc, but frankly its not really worth it.

Note that fteqcc's #merge feature allows wrapping an existing mod in a similar way, and without needing any engine changes. This gives a way to still quickly adapt many mods and to do so in a slightly more robust way (as your users won't inadvertantly end up trying to apply your mutator to eg quakerally). 
I See 
Thank you for reply,

</>but seriously, why exactly do you want multiple dats?

well, nothing special, just wondering 
 
Multiple .DATs are useful when some maps are designed for a completely different kind of functionality. For example, a map could be used as a character selection screen, another map could be an overworld map for Donkey Kong Country style level selection, and so on. Keeping each functionality in a different codebase makes the code cleaner, and makes it easier to have different coders working on each one. 
@mankrip 
<1940's style radio news voice>

"Mankrip, fighting snark with thoughtful solutions one post at a time." 
Hexen 2 Is Most Advanced We Need All Hexen 2 Feature ! 
 
 
:( I still haven't beaten Hexen II, even 19 years after buying it. 
@Cocerello - Textures 
Cocerello making textures for Quake is not technically difficult at all, you just have to have an eye for it.

Doing a hue or saturation change to an existing set (ie. the IK set) is not hard, but whether or not it looks good is a different question.

All you need to make or modify textures is TexMex and a good photo editor that can work with palettes. You must download the Quake palette (just search it its hosted everywhere...) And I suggest you also create a palette file minus the last 32 fullbright colours.

Use Texmex to obtain textures from a map, or import your new textures into a wad. Starting with other textures is good for beginners.

You will need to load the texture into a photo editor, convert it to RGB based image before making hue and saturation changes. Then reapply the indexed palette when finished. Applying the Quake palette can have devastating effects on your image and you need to be prepared to hand paint pixels that don't look good. Never just drop an image into Texmex, this is a poor approach that leads to ugly textures.
Quake doesn't have any actual red in the palette, just crimsons and browns. One of the true reds is a fullbright, and Texmex sometimes confuses your red with this color, so you need to be careful when importing into Texmex.

I spend a lot of time with some textures especially working with red. When I make a texture and hand paint from scratch it can take weeks. These 'red' banners took me three weeks to get right and they are mostly violet and pink. Some of the other textures you see here are hue/saturation changes I made in only a few minutes:
https://i.imgur.com/Z73qEOP.png

I use mtPaint which is free software to create pixel art.

Take your time and have fun. 
 
Making actually good textures is hard. Finding out the best dithering mode and gamma curve, along other factors, makes a huge difference in many cases. Afterwards, you may often find yourself layering different pixels from multiple diverse approaches to get the best results, while also manually retouching some pixels that gets bad colors in all cases.

But there are lots of poorly edited textures in Quake and in many custom maps anyway, so people got used to cheap approaches and don't know any better. In some original Quake textures we can even find leftover pixels from different texture variations, caused by poor cropping. 
Thank You, Redfield 
My main concern was with homogeneity in the methods used so the textures would still be similar to the originals while using the same colours as the others in the pack and not resort to manually editing with this case with Ik. How good it will look, i know i will need experience for that.
Ik textures are very good because they are one of the best on how hard is to spot the tiling and it seemed that making a new ik would be useful and easy to get the hang of it. As mankrip says there is many texture packs with issues even amongst some of the most popular ones but Ikblue seems to not be amongst them and i like to use it for that, as it fits my speedmaps.

What caught my attention the most is that i thought that working in RGB was only for new textures and when modifying existing Quake textures was better to work in Quake palette to avoid the problems from converting back into Quake, which can be obnoxious.

The shot looks good by the way, but it is taking me some effort to believe that it is from Quake sometimes. Looks too similar but not. 
TexMex???? 
Does it have awesome noise sampling? Does it have recolor? Does it have reduce colors? Does it let you mipmap? Can you view the texture tiled?

And biggest of all...does it have directional noise (like for instant wood grain and such)?

If your Quake texture editor sucks...look no further than the best. Use Wally! 
Wally???? 
Do you like having a 20yr old editor that crashes all the time? Do you like having an editor that doesn't knkw if it is meant for textures or pak files? Do you like having a program that forgets what pallet it was using? Do you want a program that never gets updated?

Look no further than Wally! 
But 
Texmex is a wad manager, not a texture editor. 
Oh. Then That Wpuld Be Why I Only Use Wally 
 
 
TexMex has no gamma correction on its color quantization algorithm. Due to this, it can preserve some image details that gets lost when using better editors to convert truecolor images to the Quake palette. The colors are less faithful, but some details ends up better than in the gamma-correct quantization employed by professional image editors such as The GIMP.

Sometimes, I combine both TexMex quantization and GIMP's gamma-correct quantization to get the best possible results. 
 
Texmex is only for getting the textures into and out of your WAD for game use.

You should really be using an actual editor like photoshop. I use mtPaint cause reasons. 
 
I won't pirate Photoshop, and for this single use case (non-correct quantization), TexMex is waaay more lightweight.

I use whatever tools that gives the results I'm looking for. 
 
Yeah I use it for making multiple brightness variants of textures too. It works ok in this case. Texmex really does feel like a hacked together MacGyver-esque tool, so I don't like to do too much with it. 
I Agree 
The same can be said for AdQuedit, even more so since it lets you delete windows. 
@Tronyn 
Are you getting my emails? Or are you still having issues? 
 
 
Texture Blending 
https://samjcreations.blogspot.com/2018/06/version-de-developpement-gimp-2991.html
Dev version of gimp with great blending in indexed mode. The new official 2.10 has indexed locked for some reason. 
 
Sounds pretty neat given GIMP's normally rudimentary support for images in indexed mode, but I don't speak a word of that language and a quick Google Translate isn't helping much so no idea how neat it actually is. 
Doom 5 Eternal Trialer 
https://youtu.be/c9GU4P-1AWI

Because I don't think it's been posted on func yet. 
Wats Wrong With 
d5 trailer? 
Hell On Earth 
 
Looking For Tes6 
 
@spud 
You don't need to read french to use gimp tho.
http://gegl.org/babl/ is the stuff making work.
Recommend downloading and giving a shot if you're familiar with gimp 
@spud 
I bit the bullet the other day and downloaded it, it's fully available in english once you extract the archive. In case you're not sure what the download link is:
https://i.imgur.com/4BQtESB.png 
 
Of course, whether or not you trust the french to not put viruses in the download is another matter. Sneaky french... 
Re 
The 2.99 seems way buggier than the previous versions.
2.10.2 on the same page is the way to go.. 
Dumb Question Time 
Quake Champions, can you make maps for that? Without having to work for id, I mean. 
 
nope 
 
By the way, did Quake Live support custom maps? 
Nope 
 
Wha? 
srsly? That's bloody shameful if true - it's just q3!

Was any reasoning ever given? 
Yes, It Did! 
Even Bal's maps are playable from the workshop. 
Oh 
They are! I totally forgot about the Steam Workshop. 
 
Oh, so it had a workshop. Nice.

Some sort of SnapMap could have been popular in QChamp. 
 
Dear diary, today OTP got a Quake-fact wrong. Today was a good day. 
 
There's even a func_mappack although honestly it is mostly Bal :-) https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=588931999 
 
How can i take a quake mdl and use it in hexen2 without screw up the colors of the skin?

I know quake and hexen2 has different palettes, but i can't figure out how to change the palette without change all the colors (i opened the model with QME and loaded a hexen2 palette and all the colors went wrong) 
#30344 
Piss off nutjob. 
 
Totally normal reaction. 
 
You don't get to use the word "normal". 
PS. 
If you're only here to start shit, which was visible even in the way you "released" zjam2, there's a beef thread where you can release all your pent up anger with how this community mistreated you and your funny antics. :^) 
 
Totally normal reaction. 
PS 
Feel free to explain my wrongdoings in sharing the pack, btw. Im all ears. 
Gays, Get A Room. 
This one might be good, it comes with a free STD check at the door: http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=16069&start=312 
Untested 
How can i take a quake mdl and use it in hexen2 without screw up the colors of the skin?

You could try to export the skin to .bmp before converting the model to Hexen 2 format, then import the skin again after converting the format. This ought to get the colours close.

In practice the best way is to use a proper graphics program to create a skin in the Hexen 2 palette (based on the original) and then import that onto the model. Any automatic process will only produce middling results I'm afraid, you need to adapt the skin by hand to get something that looks good. 
Qmaster 
Your email is out of order, can you take a look at it? 
Seems Fine. 
Tronyn isn't responding to my emails either so maybe he isn't getting them. I sent you an email just now. Let me know ifyou get it. 
Qmaster 
I had an error with the dot space.
It looks fine now, don't mind getting the message twice. 
System Shock - Shockolate 
Doom2: Nam 
somebody able/willing to create more misions/levels/wads for this fun Doom2 mod
https://www.moddb.com/games/doom-ii/addons/doom-vietnam
pls? 
@MFX And Maddy Fox 
would you join the gang at TF discord https://discord.gg/DE3TDK 
Spy 
...would you kindly finish that map i play tested? :) 
@Dumptruck_ds 
its partially finished and updated since the fall of 2017,

but i decided to scrap it

't was my fault to attempt to update that shant be updated 
Too Bad 
Ah man. You ruined my day. I really liked the theme. Some nice designs. Might have to do something similar with that wad one day. 
I'd Rather 
beta test any of your map, for compensation 
Might Have To Do Something Similar With That Wad One Day. 
reffer to kinn maps 
Thanks! 
I need to replay Marcher. I don't recall if I finished it. I have played Bastion yet. 
Kinn Is A Living God 
 
Kinn Is A Massive Chode. 
And a sort of living godlette. 
:( 
9th February 
 
No Kinns Q Maps 
Although 
That said, I am still impressed at how I managed to get Marcher working in bog-standard WinQuake. I swear to god, that's where 90% of the development time went. 
Still A Top Notch 
and the bestest Q map ever created, 
Dugnammit 
but thanks :} 
Who Would Win? 
#30257

vs.

#30367 + #30373. 
Lol Otp 
you're still wondering

i've been a huge kinn fan for years

and now you're compare your whinning to my admire kinns work 
The Most Resent Whine 
Changed my mindset completely. Please ignore me metl, I want more stuff like #2267 all over the board.

everything you do, is a plane whinning or trolling

and you're shitlist 
I've Asked You 
bout RJ's work, and you ignored me 
*your 
 
No Responce From Otp, Yet 
stay tuned 
Via Smoogle 
jesteś głupcem, próbowałeś normalnie się z tobą komunikować, najwyraźniej twój głupi kot nie rozumie tego 
ебанутый языу конечно 
 
Twój Głupi Kot 
not sure ,

that sounds like 'your stupid cat',

but no 
Piss 
 
Peace 
i'm mean it 
#30360 
Am I in the gang or bang? 
 
Wow, Twitter hid Fifth's reply to Romero
Happy Birthday Quake 
Transparent Water 
Could someone post instructions on how to VIS a map for transparent water? I can't get vispatch 1.4.6 to work. 
 
Sock just released a new AD map on twitter:

http://www.simonoc.com/pages/design/sp/ad_grendel.htm

someone should make a post about this. Looks really good :) 
Maiden 
Newly compiled maps will have transparent water by default on most compilers.

If you want to add transparent water to maps for which you don't have the source, download UQMP from here and use its reVis tool. 
#30391 
It's also worth noting that reVis will fix the BSP's CRC check, something that other tools usually ignore and that results in bugs in some engines. 
@mankrip 
Thanks! Yes I know, this is mostly for older maps from back in the day. So is this another tool like vispatch? I'll give it a go. 
 
It's a toolkit I've made back in my Dreamcast quakedev days. It's .bat file based, so I'm not sure if it'll work in modern systems. 
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