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Best Quake Denizens
another random quake discussion;

your favourite three quake monsters, including all expansions and custom made creatures (you�re not allowed to say your own).

for me -

fiend (the classic, vicious, determined, can gib the player)

qouth gug (a multipurpose miniboss; pure aggression on six limbs, always provides excitement)

spawn (unpredictable, possibly the most dangerous base quake enemy, depending)

personally i like creatures that are lethal but can be learned - ones without hitscan or undodgable attacks.
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Kona had diferent demons in a map... some smalls and others bigs :) were nice! i think Asaki made then 
I'd Like To See A Fiend 
who can run on the sides of walls and use them as a spring board. 
My Pick 
tarbaby 
You Guys Are On Crack 
Look at the Ogre's skin, it does not mesh with base/futuristic setting. It's clearly an other-dimensional or medieval monster, or a crusty German in liederhosen. 
Hrmmm 
Favorite Quake monsters?
Fiend, death knight, scrag

Counting expansions and mods?
Gremlins can be added
Drole is quite cool

Other games?
Doom/2:
Arch Vile
Mancubus

Blood:
Axe Zombie

Quake2:
Medic
Gunner
Enforcer

BTW, in DPmod the ogres grenades on Hard are equivalent to yours.

Phait - The ogre can be used in some base environments, namely delapidated and rusted ones... Ikbase if darkly lit would work fine... He isnt explicitly medieval as opposed to the knights. However you do raise a good point, I need to check the listen field in my command line paremeters and make sure neg!ke isnt connecting to my game with a grenade launcher and chainsaw - on countless ocassions.... 
Haha! 
"a crusty German in liederhosen!" Haha!

Sadly, most people's mental image of Germany is much more funny than living here. It would be cool waking up in a total caricature of Germany for a few days, but now that I think about it, that is probably exactly what I do.

He does look a bit like Axel Schulz with a chainsaw, though. About as deadly, too. 
Mancubi! 
i absolutely love this monster, and it's D3 incarnation is one of my all time favourite monsters. it's just sad that because of it's slow speed and size that it is not practical to use him in many situations. but his looks are top notch-- pasty white skin melded to brutal tech, beady eyes and a gooey body that bounces around as it moves it's ample amount of blubber around. of all the D3 monsters, he looks the best. 
Doom1/2 Mancubus 
The mancubus was my favorite doom1/2 monster. Great artwork, great sound effects. 
Yeah 
the mancubus in doom 2 will always be my favourite doom monster and one of my favourite fps monsters of all time, alongside the Quake fiend.

I cant think of any other cool fps monsters now actually... Hmm. These days they all seem to be slightly different looking "men with guns" with no real memorable attacks or gameplay.

Bring back the days of FPS games with fun enemies! 
Realism = Bullets = No Fun 
hitscan = emphasis on hiding and not moving because it's the only way not to lose health

quake's heavy use of projectiles and leaps = emphasis on dodging and movement

lunaran = not sure why he's writing like this 
Is 
the switch to hitscan weapons in most modern games just a way to up the difficulty or something?

cause we all know projectiles are easy to dodge and such... is it just a lack of ways to make stuff harder? 
Mancubi 
I'll say one thing about the Doom3 mancubus: he has probably the best idle sounds of any monster ever. Seriously, you can create such incredibly scary anticipation of this beast with the right use of his sounds. Pure awesome. The Hellknight is a runner-up in this regard. 
Was 
pretty disappointed with the hellknight, tbh. would have prefered something more 'traditionally' hellish. more red, an animated skin with a type of smoldering effect. instead he's a giant black nondescript blob. :\ the alternate 'hell' skin is a step in the right direction, but it's much too dark.

also, the footstep sound was really bad and annoying. so much so that i actually modded the stock game to use the alternate (unused) footstep sound, which is much cleaner and less obtrusive.

his growls are really good though, i agree with ya on that. ;)

mancubi idle sounds play with a bit to low an attenuation, i found... you can hear it from way too far away. (is there a way to customize monster idle sound attenuation? :P) but they are all great sounds. his yells are all raspy and 'fat' sounding. really wierd and scratchy like his throat is bloated up. 
Lunaran Just... 
...captured why I dont care for the combat in most games these days. It is best to blend these things up... grunts and enforcers with some dogs are good... straight up grunts? Not so fun, though they do at least aim behind you so if you keep on moving theyre less likely to hit you...

I think this is why Ive not cared for FarCry really thus far... everyone just has a machinegun pretty much, with the ocassional rocket launcher which simply makes for a very deadly projectile.

necros - you should give Blood a try, a nice challenging game, enemies typically have both hitscan and projectile attacks... or some combination of attack types. Cultists/Fanatics have shotguns and tommyguns respectively which can rough you up, but their lobbed dynamite which is a projectile with a fuse is easier to avoid but so much more deadly.

Difficulty comes from good level design and imaginative mix of enemies... which Ive not seen in a commercial game in a while.

Kinn - I never noticed the D3 Mancubi's sounds honestly... probably because on the first encounter I panicked due to their numbers, and the only other times I encountered them (are they anywhere besides sewers and hell?) I was physically in a rush and just killed them quickly. Hellknight seems like such a humdrum enemy but damn I enjoy going toe to toe with 2 in a tight space and just a shotgun... 
FarCry ... 
... I'll forgive because they built a game around not being seen in the first place. I had immense fun turtling up on encampments and stuff and learning exactly how to eliminate everyone without causing a scene or taking a hit.

but FarCry without the cover and sneaking aspect? I'd have grown to hate it far earlier than I did. 
Yes 
If the brush didnt actually work in covering you, Id probably hate it. Instead I just find myself dissatisfied when Im away from the brush.... The problem is sometimes I will just become suddenly visible to the ai because I crawled a little too fast, and then BAM tons of machinegun fire on me even though Im still far in shrubbery in a dark spot and making no sound. Another time I could hide inside of a single individual bush, and guys were walking around it, I was shooting a full on automatic weapon without any form of silencer into them, killing them one by one, and they didnt retaliate at all... 
Hitscan / Projectile 
the thing is no bullets should work as hitscan - its just a lazy programming solution. the 'real' method would be to have spin, velocity and gravity working on the bullets. granted they'd be so fast as to be practically hitscan anyway but at least it'd leave open the ability to do lots of nifty tricks easily like ricochets, scattered fire and jams - remember the nailgun in OUM?

the q2 bad guys had machineguns alot of the time but if you were moving sideways they could never hit you - the only ones who could were the black machinegun guards and the big tank boss. this was just position lag, but much more fun than needing either lots of cover and slow gameplay (the list goes on) or else lots of health and safety zones (hl2).

the mancubi in doom2 had the best death sequence by far. 
 
ricochets, scattered fire and jams

none of which would help because they'd all still be random. 
Bullets 
shouldn't be hitscan, right. They aren't in real life either (well, depends on the distance of course.)

It's been a while since I was in the army but I remember well being on the shooting yard and doing G3 (assault shotgun) shooting over 100 and 150 m distance. If you were standing at the half distance point, you could hear the projectiles zoom past. They aren't _that_ fast. Not fast enough to qualify for "hitscan" anyway.

Of course a 5 meter distance is something else, but then you'd have to check for that in the game...

We were also shooting with uzis and the MG 42 (MG 3). It's extremely hard hitting anything at all with an uzi, because it's just like the thing dances in your hands. Impossible to keep a straight aim. The Quake 2 machinegun is done very well, I was amazed that it actually tries to emulate this (aim goes up while firing, but of course they made it so that you still hit something.)

With the heavy machine gun, you only hit something if you mount it more or less tightly on its stand (really jam it into the earth or something.) One time my buddy forgot this and we had the worst MG efficiency ever. Most people have no idea how heavy those things are, so any kind of free-handed shooting would be just ridiculous (as would shooting from helicopters, jeeps or other vehicles.)

We didn't do much pistol shooting, but we did this test where you put an empty shotgun shell upright on the back of the pistol, and try pulling the trigger without it falling off. Good luck.

So much for the efficiency of so-called "hitscan" weapons and all the kiddies doing headshots from 20 meters routinely in those games. Forget it. It's NOT realistic. Not that I like pseudorealistic wargames at all, I play quake _because_ it is unrealistic and "fantasy". 
In Doom3 
all bullets and even individual shotgun pellets are simulated as projectiles. They just move really fast, so it's pretty hard to tell them apart from hitscan. 
Projectiles... 
i think part of the reason fast bullets are treated as hitscan in games is that they move really fast, and the physics simulation is only being updated, at best, once per frame. 
Iirc 
The only game I can think of that had properly simulated bullets (speed, taking into account wind and all that shit) was Operation Flashpoint.

This game is oooold now but it was damn fun to play on a LAN back in the day. You really did have to lead your targets if they were far away by a foot or 2 in order to hit them.

Man this thread got derailed pretty fast :P 
Because 
i posted the topic when bored and didn't put too much thought into it . . .

although, just played through marcher again and i definately rate the Gauroch in both brown and white varieties - the charge attack is cool, as is summoning the waves of meat shield imps - even though they're an ammo sponge. 
Hello 
have you ever shot at a moving target?
If you go hunting elk/moose over here and want to shoot, you have to do a test (every year). It consists of a few shots from 100 meters to a stationary elk picture and then if you hit all of those in the second phase the elk is moving on rails, simulating running sideways. Probably human jogging speed.
A normal high-velocity .308 hunting rifle has quite a bit of powder with a 7.62 mm bullet, and still you have to aim a lot forward, the beard of the beast to hit it's heart, that's like about half a meter (1.5 feet). An assault rifle has a much slower bullet speed so would need even more leading.
Of course if the bullet leaves at 700 m/s it takes 1/7th of a sec for the travel, so it'd be only a few frames in a video game (8 in 60 fps). And it could be discontinuous ie if you shoot at a guy who is three frames away then if he goes slightly further he is suddenly four frames away and your lead amount changes dramatically... You'd have to use some kinds of hacks where the bullet is a line of a certain length and the next frame the line moves forward it's own length.

But if you're shooting at small rc aircraft with a gun (seen this in the navy), it's remarkable how it is hard to line up the grenade stream and even then it can sort of fly between the grenades.
Of course here we are talking about bigger than personal combat distances.
But anyway it is very unhitscan-like...

This is one of my favorite topics.

And btw ricocheting isn't completely random if you've ever seen tracers been shot in the dark. 
 
Shammies and Vores/Shalraths

Archviles, Cacodemons, and Arachnotrons 
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