refresh my memory. 

i can remember the tumor layout.
the GTA3 discussions
one guy doing the architecture and one the texturing (i LIKE that since i loathe texturing and only ever have time to do blocks and now my blocks are gonna be called suspension parts for formula student car: yep not enough time for mapping so far :-( 

testing stuff 

lunaran and rpg are doing that -- lunaran has already designed a layout, rpg will do all the brushwork, and then lunaran will "skin" the resulting geometry. 

i think it's the best way of doing it. if you know each other enough to have trust and also if you take the job seriously. does anyone else do it regularly? (dunno if daz and killaz did it like that or if they just merged various parts of maps...)

i'd like to ask rpg how he works. does he choose the rough textures and then lun realigns them or does rpg "clothe" all brushes in any random tex and lun chooses the tex set and makes the wad? 

I do the architecture in 3 or so basic textures, and then Lun will make appropriate textures for all the surfaces and retexture the map. 

I like texturing and textures often inspire a lot of my brush work, but I really hate when you need a certain texture to fit a theme and you just can't find one. It makes me wish I knew enough about photoshop to do all my own textures. 

...i had the patience to do them. how long does it take to make a dozen or so textures, anyway? 

I find it easier than mapping anyway.
If you just want a particular texture - you can always modify exesting one. I do this all the time, rather than struggling with the set that doesn suit my brushwork.
Creating new textures that would look good in quake pal is not easy, but making average truecolor stuff is just a matter of knowing how to use the software right.

Check
Tutorials at http://www.polycount.com/cottages/rorshach
And texture forums at http://www.map-center.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi 

BWDM1 = design of the century. 

BWDM1 = vaporware.

Please prove me wrong. :/ 

Title : King Of My Castle
Date : 18/6/99
Filename : bwdm1.bsp
Author : Bram "geuss who?" Weterings
Email Address : ad.weterings@hccnet.nl
Description : A medium sized DM leven for 2-6 players for Quake 2 

http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2/quake2/levels/deathmatch/a-c/bwdm.zip 

bwdm1 was for Q1 f00

I did have a really old version around once, but it was on an old PC. 

i have a feeling if i tried it would be exciting untill i finally used the tex in my map(s) and it looked crap. like when i'm sitting for an hour with some music, adding stuff, go down for a cuppa and listen when i come up and it sounds muted (if you add too much and it all collides), boring, bollox (rather sums it up).

practice makes perfect of course... 

The textures I made for Q1 were a lot easier than those for Q3, mainly because of the double scale of the latter. The color palette for Q1 is not actually as much of a problem as you may think - I find that some of the best creativity is when people have limitations, but those limitations are clearly defined. It's really a case of understanding what the palette is made of and therefore what you can get away with once you reduce colors down to 256.
Another thing that makes Q1 textures easier is the almost complete freedom to make what you want; crumbling blue brickwork laced with stainless steel gigeresque pipework? No problem! Such things don't always work in other games, even Q3 :(
The time I spent making textures for my first Q3A map, The Color Of Anger, was vastly greater than the time spent learning Gtk, building brushwork, meshes etc.
Complex, intricate textures like trim or feature-specifics such as doors and jump-pads, can take many hours. I think my kothic jump-pad took about two weeks, a few hours each day. But when making textures specifically for your map, you also have to remember all the textures that are made but end up not being used.

Anyway...mapping styles:
tumor
monumental
cavernous
concentric
...or somethin' like that. 

I used your Knave textures when building a section for Q1-Turtle Map 1. Now I know how much work went into them, I must thank you again. I can sling you the .bsp if you want to check out the usage.

re: Mapping Styles
I grasp the "tumor" style and the "monumental" but I'm wondering if you can clarify "cavernous" with an example. By concentric do you mean "chaotic", where the major design feature is iterated at every level from layout down to detail? 

I'd like to see the map, distrans :)

cavernous: maps that are based on expending brushwork for size rather than detail. Insomnia was like that IIR.

concentric: where the map is built around a main area/feature which the player visits and revisits multiple times throughout completion. Peripheral areas are all smaller and carry diminutive versions of main motifs.
I could probably cite Libris Vertiginis as an example, but there are others.

re: chaotic; what you describe sounds like another approach worth mentioning, though I think the term 'fractal' is more accurate terminology. Can't think of an example off-hand, though I am slightly drunk and I've just discovered my website has been reverted to an older backup :( 

Bad luck about the site :(

Insomnia struck me more as monolithic rather than cavernous, although in truth both are appropriate.

The concentric notion makes sense now. Perhaps some of [Kona]'s maps fall into this category as well, although the revisit in those instances tend to be on a new level vertically. The "e3" map from ProdigySE would seem to be a good example of what you are talking about.

Fractal, yep that's the notion. Biff_debris would've made a fair fist of this sort of level but I can't think of anyone who's actually pulled it off (apsp1 maybe?).

/me waves at biff

Level fragment for the Q1 Turtle1 on it's way :) 

apsp1 was more of a mutliple-concentric map (being centered in certain areas around a certain colum, ie the beginning area or the generator) but these are rather chaotically placed so I can see where you're coming from. 

I take your point about apsp1 as a multiple-concentric level, but the notion of chaos I was alluding to was wrt chaos theory. So to distinguish from the randomness of chaotic (in your sense) level design we could do worse than adopt Kell's notion of "fractal" level design as a descriptor.