Treasure = +50 points
Backstab = +20 points
Reveal = -10 points 

Sock, I'm once again chuffed that the universe has placed you here for my amusement. I had a really good time with this, mainly because it was a new way to poke around in a Quake-style environment. It recalled some of the tension I originally got from Quake SP before I turned into a jaded shotgun bunnyhopper.

I did notice that when I would cock up and alert a bunch of dudes simultaneously, that would often turn out to be the fastest/easiest/safest way to eliminate them. I.e.: Run away along my back-path until they all give up and start marching back to their patrol in a line, then zip back up behind the train and chop chop chop. That was really the main iffy spot in my playthrough... it seems like something should be in place to make "alert everyone" still a bad thing even when you have a clear escape path.

(Idly thinking about different possibilities: Alert time has a random component, with an increasing range as more dudes are simultaneously alerted. Or, guys returning to patrol will regularly "check 6"; several guys returning would tend to be doing a check-6 at staggered times. Etc. obviously there's a bunch of tools in that box.) 

@vondur, I see you are saving the best map for last, S1M2 is certainly my favourite with a gorgeous look and style, oh I hear the game play is good as well! ;)

@Johnny Law, wow now that is a nick I have not heard of in a long time. The marching AI train is something I tried to solve several times with different ideas, randomly pausing, idle nodes, giving up before getting to the pent on the floor. Eventually I went with info nodes, because when you get 4+ AI they really look stupid all bumping into each other.

When the AI march back to their patrol they will stop at info nodes and wait to catch the player again. This really only works if there are plenty of nodes around to stop at. I must admit I do like the backstab chop chop chop play thou. :) 

What do you think? Music, Presentation? Any Good?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei-Ys-9WlGk 

The music's good.

But there's too much text. Personally I found the original tutorial messages fine.

Is this intended as a publicity tool? Because playing that tutorial section is going to be 200% more informative than watching a video.

If it is supposed to drum up interest just general gameplay would be better - the more thats hinted at, and not just explicitly stated step by step the better.

Anyone too lazy to play the tutorial for themselves probably isn't going to play anything else either. Or get out of bed in the morning. 

It took me ages to find the new music and it certainly better than the last attempt. This is the first of a new set of video's to replace the old stuff I had before which has not aged well.

Personally I thought the less messages were better but I knew exactly what to do, so I never really needed any explanations. From watching demo's and various email feedback I think the extra text is better for people new to the concept of stealth. The messages only appear if you move around and do things different, I tried to make the text react to what the player is doing.

It is certainly a learning process trying to create video's with the right balance of information, action and not making things look too easy. 

That you take the feedback so seriously.

I realise we here are a more hardcore audience. 

finished it, awesome stuff! very inspiring gameplay and most of all texture choice and atmosphere!

here're the demos: http://vondur.net/files/shadow.7z 

You get 21/20 for the map just for the brushwork and texture job. Those arches are stunning. Really inspired construction. 

Another game play video, this time on S1M1 featuring lots of tricks, tips and sudden deaths!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxbWypUlQQg

@ijed, I always listen to feedback, it makes my stuff better!
@vondur, you are star, thank you very much :)
@RickyT23, thanks, did you try stealth mode? 

I watched it, and while I do know everything about how it works, I think the new messages make everything clear. Sometimes it's not always clear on why a monster wakes up unless you understand all the rules. Explaining why the one ogre woke up when you stood in front of it is, while maybe a bit verbose, explains the basics on the system well. 

The further messages, and also the page you wrote on moddb, really help drive some of the concepts home. 

The last one in the set of gameplay videos showing hints, tips and sudden death moments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jApMw5hcKBk

It took me ages to plan the routes, enemy encounters and then finally syncing it all to music to make the right impact. Some of the sequences I probably played 50+ times to get the perfect demo but it was worth it in the end. I played a lot with poison bolts in the gameplay videos and it turned out to be a lot of fun, I might try a poison bolt only mode (no axe) and see how it works out.

Anyway thanks everyone for the feedback so far it has been awesome. Its shame some regulars here did not reply but I am sure they have their reasons. Time to get back to making stuff and not constantly waffle in this thread! 

That was cool. :) I never really thought of playing it at such a fast pace. You must have been laughing at how long it took me to get through the levels. ^_^; 

honestly, time is the only reason at the moment, just bought a place and so thats kept me busy.

Havent played tronyn's map either yet. OR his previous arcextra ones. 

@nitin, its fine I do understand that everyone has life stuff to do, I was simply expressing my disappointment that's all. I thought after so many years of hanging out at this place and finally making some Q1 content that the regulars here would be more vocal. Oh well time to get some chill pills! :) 

@necros, I made these extra video's because I keep seeing people in demo's not doing any advanced stuff like firing bolts and ducking behind corners. I am not sure why nobody uses this trick because it allows the higher stealth skill levels to become easier. Totally out of ideas of what to do, besides make more video's! 

Half of the stuff in those videos I didn't even consider doing... It almost felt like a speedrun at times! 

@necros, after seeing the video would you go back to the levels and try them differently? Does the video make you curious to try different things? or would you not bother until a new version came out? 

I think one aspect that is confusing with poison is the ambiguous color scheme. For visibility the green icon means the monster cannot see me, red means "bad, be careful now". for killing with poison the green means "wait" and red means "good, kill now". 

I'm in a little bit different position, I think. I've played your maps dozens of times now so I'm kind of bored of the gameplay at this point. If you had new maps, yeah, I'd probably try the move a little quicker and be more 'daring' in how I approached situations. 

Part of the problem of trying to pimp a Quake MOD is that very few people actually have the game anymore. I know a large portion of the original assets are in the shareware version.

I have been doing some tests and I am very close to replacing all of the assets from the bought version of Quake with my own assets. I have done some tests of my MOD + shareware assets + custom engine and it works!

In theory I can distribute my MOD with a modified engine + shareware pak file and more people can play it. Is this a good idea? Is it likely I will get ID lawyers beating my door down in the middle of the night?

@metlslime, Can I distribute your engine+readme file in a final zip for people to play my MOD? 

The shareware license does not allow that. Sorry. :( It sucks!

id Software does not care the slightest bit though. Also you could probably just have your users download the shareware by hand. A certain website is actually luring people into believing that Quake is free and they have a repacked shareware that is easy to install. So while morally wrong, I'd say go ahead.

Fitzquake you can take without even asking though, you would just need to be ready to provide the source code to the specific exe you shipped plus you must make clear that it is GPL. That's the power of free software to you. :) 

The same issue. We've got the name and legacy code left and for ease of testing right now we've removed any dependency on the Quake folder itself and run standalone.

For a game that's over ten years old I doubt they'll send hitmen after us, but as Spirit suggests 'it's nice to be nice' so we'll have to come up with some sort of solution.

A message saying 'buy Quake' probably isn't enough. Re-adding the dependency on the shareware version seems cack-handed though. 

I downloaded the shareware from the ID site and it won't even install under Win7!?! Which really is annoying. This is why I was going to take the shareware pak and ID readme docs and put them in a separate zip for people to install.

I know Quake one ( http://quakeone.com/freequake/en.html ) have made a shareware installer with all the assets and they seem to be getting away with it.

I certainly will not be charging any money for my MOD now or in the future so this is not about money but what is morally right or not rude to ID. I was thinking about contacting ID but I get the feeling I might be ignored because it is a sensitive copyright issue.