Oh
#37 posted by Drew on 2014/05/30 08:22:49
Just reading thread now... maybe I played in normal? I never saw a Gug. That would explain why it was so 'easy'...
Feedback
#38 posted by sock on 2014/05/30 13:10:31
@negke, I wanted to keep the monster theme consist and avoid any medieval creatures, Polyps falls into that category for me. I can see players getting really frustrated with that mob after being knocked off bridges and ledges!
@Fifth, the bridges can be costly on entities, remember to stagger the setup state of them at the beginning otherwise you might get packet over errors with the state of too many entities changing at once. The func_togglewalls have a relay delay so that the monster drops into the void and not slide with the func_door entity.
@JohnnyLaw, glad you enjoyed it, the bobs always make me run for the inside areas of the towers.
@stevenaaus, The Plasma Gun is difficult to find because it makes the map far too easy. Every time a tester found the gun I kept moving it to someone more difficult to find!
@Drew, indeed you played on normal skill level, the next skill up is crazy hard, even for Quoth veterans.
I wouldn't call it crazy hard. There were no tarbabies!!
Dude
#40 posted by Drew on 2014/05/30 13:57:34
Gugs are totally medieval.
Anyway, will try a hard run soon!
Options
#41 posted by sock on 2014/05/30 15:20:39
Gugs are totally medieval
Yep, very true, there is nothing else to end a tech based map with? Gug, Drole, Shambler, Shalrath, Fiends (all mid to high level monsters, all medieval) Only option I could think of was a couple of Edie's, but that is not much fun to fight and I had those throughout the map already.
The tech theme/style has always been at odds with the Quake universe because it was always a starting theme. Quoth certainly adds some extra units (mostly re-skins) but a tech style boss monster is really needed.
Creative Writing
#42 posted by sock on 2014/05/30 15:23:43
It seems my news post got put on the front page of the site! :)
#43 posted by skacky on 2014/05/30 15:39:35
Gugs are perfectly fine in tech maps, they work wonders with the theme in warpb for example.
As Do Polyps
#45 posted by Drew on 2014/05/30 18:24:40
"my immersion"
Cool stuff there Sock. Great to see Quake still getting first page news, it's kind of weird to see you get first page for this map though since Zendar is clearly your magnum opus and ITS is also well worthy of first page news.
That Was Fun
A really beautiful map with a nice layout. Quite challenging due to the constant threat of falling down. Good use of flamethrower enforcers. I found the Gug a bit out of place, but apart from that the final fight was nice! I also find the limited weapon selection a plus.
Sorry, I don't have any constructive criticism... but I recorded a demo on skill 2. Two demos, actually, because I dropped to my death in the first one...
http://www.quaketastic.com/files/demos/sleep_metmon.7z
#48 posted by sock on 2014/05/31 14:54:28
@OTP, I see you want to join the #evilgameplay club with Negke! :P
@Fifth, I am totally surprised by the news, it is indeed a shame that Zendar did not get noticed the same way, but Zendar does look traditional brown Quake, Metal Monstrosity is bright and purple!
@SleepwalkR, nice first run, funny to see the bob at the end fighting the Gug! Hard skill is a frugal ammo situation, you need to explore.
Brilliant
#49 posted by nitin on 2014/06/01 05:55:59
really this is easily one of the best coagula/void maps ever made. The gameplay was an absolute blast IMHO, the layout and forcefield pathways allow so many variations in both route and attack choice.
Looks wise, I loved some of the cubic type detailing, very nice touch. The skybox is of course every fitting, especially with that fog.
Can I Ask How Long Something Like This To Make Sock?
#50 posted by nitin on 2014/06/01 05:56:15
Duh
#51 posted by nitin on 2014/06/01 05:56:31
took to make
Construction
#52 posted by sock on 2014/06/01 15:17:43
Most of the level was built over a long weekend (4 day) holiday.
The first part was to create the central tower and dish as this was the primary landmark which would determine the scale of the structure. I always build the landmark first because it sets the tone and style of the rest of the map.
The second day was to create a second tower with platforms that spirals upwards towards the dish tower. This was rough blocks, ramps and simple monster placement. I generally place AI as I go because I want them to suit the architecture for paths, line of sight etc.
The third day was creating the power cube idea of what makes the structures float. This was about the detail that went downwards and across to other platforms. I originally had solid walkways connecting the lower stuff but it looked too chunky so I went back to my test map and played with some entities and textures until I had something that was fun to play with and looked good.
The fourth day was to create the rest of the central platforms and AI placement using new Quoth units as accents to the encounters. I spent a while creating more textures, expanding the theme of runic metal and removing the brown metal as much as possible.
The next week was about getting the skybox sorted, it took me several attempts (over night renders) to get the right light source orientation and lower cloud setup. The latest version of Terragen has a lot of options which affect how fast or slow the render can be and the resolution was really high, so it took a lot longer than normal.
The second week was creating the final arena battle, playing with lightning and expanding the texture set with more trims and details which worked their way into the structure.
The third week was testing, testing and more testing. Trying to find bugs, balance the AI and build the skill selection area. I always build the first part of the map last so it looks the best with the textures. After a while of using a texture set you get into a certain rhyme of how they lock together and this usually leads to the best architecture / texture combinations.
Total time to build the map was about 3 weeks, but the majority of the time was spent in the first couple of days and there was a lot of overnight skybox rendering.
Thanks For That Insight
#53 posted by nitin on 2014/06/01 15:58:47
I'm no mapper but that sounds like very very efficient mapping timewise.
I must be crazy... I quite often will make my maps room by room (pretty much fleshing each one with bsp detail, then cutting up bsp to make trims and texturing, then lighting it... once the whole map is made only then do I generally add monsters).
#55 posted by inertia on 2014/06/01 23:08:19
Perhaps that's a distinction between you and sock: architecture first vs gameplay first.
#56 posted by JneeraZ on 2014/06/01 23:12:51
That's how I made maps back in the day ... just string a bunch of interesting looks areas together and add monsters at the end. Sock definitely takes a more purposeful approach.
Oh definitely. I will design areas with gameplay ideas in mind but I don't add the monsters until the end (in most cases)
Romero once mentioned that he made maps in this way...
Rage Quit...
#58 posted by damage_inc on 2014/06/02 05:08:08
like 15 times trying to make a freakin' demo, GRRRRRRRRRR :(
I keep dying in a DIFFERENT way! I know that's a "good" thing but trying to supply a demo is pizzin' me off.
QS only let's me start recording before I enter the map? So loading a save and then recording from there won't seem to work...
meh... anyways,
Awesome map SOCK, jus' can't get it right to show me playing it.
Got It Figured Out, Yay :)
#59 posted by damage_inc on 2014/06/02 06:08:49
It's in two demo's though.
http://www.inchoate.com/qdemo/metmon_damage_demo.7z
THANKS for the map sock, totally ROCKS.
In The Beginning ...
#60 posted by sock on 2014/06/02 16:13:57
I must be crazy... I quite often will make my maps room by room
That's how I made maps back in the day
Romero once mentioned that he made maps in this way
This is how most level designers start, the joy of building, exploring and playing with virtual space. Eventually you have to move beyond that and start thinking of architecture and spaces as gameplay.
The initial building part is perfect for working out scale and distance so that the AI have the best possible position. It is also good to try sketches or block-outs, but ultimately you should know where the AI is going to be in each area before the detail phase.
This is not to say I don't make architecture for the fun of it, I sometimes specially design some architectural to look a certain way, but that is usually landmark scale stuff. It really depends on how far the player is into the map.
@damage_inc, yeah this map can be unforgiving if you are not careful with ledges and where you jump. There is always two ways to get somewhere, early with tricky jumps or later with easier drop downs. Thanks for the demo, it was cool to watch.
I Know That You Aren't Making Any More Vanilla Maps
#61 posted by Drew on 2014/06/02 17:42:05
but if you change your mind, but if you make another small map, I'd love to see a kind of step by step development log from you!
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