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Blackroom Is About To Make You Its Bitch.
BLACKROOM - A GAME BY JOHN ROMERO AND ADRIAN CARMACK

I'm making a thread for this because it's probably quite an important release for us, considering who it's made by and what we know so far about the game design.

In brief: oldschool FPS mechanics, fast (like Doom-fast), abstract (apparently) level design across lots of varied environment themes, headed by id founders Romero and (Adrian) Carmack. Unreal 4 Engine. Release date: 2018

More info on Kickstarter.

Post your rumblings here. Trousers optional.
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It's sad, and kinda heartbreaking. I don't see this campaign being successful anymore.

Randy's video was also removed from the campaign's front page.

Romero released some really good Doom maps recently, but I don't remember him releasing anything made in UE4, ever. He knows a lot about level design theory, but he must show that he also knows how to handle the tools he's going to use for creating Blackroom maps.

Adrian Carmack doesn't seem excited about being a part of this project.

The gameplay mechanics were described too vaguely. Several other key elements are also too vague, like enemies and items. It isn't clear who's going to code it either.

Despite lots of neutral-to-positive press almost everywhere (the most negative one I've seen was from Ars Technica), the funding has nearly stopped already, with less than 19% achieved. This isn't a sign of bad or insufficient exposure, but of a lack of confidence from the audience -- I wouldn't say that a lack of interest is also a factor, because Romero's latest Doom maps got universally praised everywhere.

Romero is betting on his talent and on the quality of his work, but not on confidence. Public confidence doesn't come from quality or talent, but from deliverability; he shouldn't promise to deliver something that, at a technical level, is completely different from those Doom levels.

It's a sad situation, and it makes me a bit sad to see it happening. 
Its Not Sad 
it's like a McCartney Album always being shit, nothing more.

The magic has gone, the team is dead, even with Ringo coming back for some drum parts. John Lennon is gone.
It will never reoccur again. Twas another time and space back then, his promises are old and burned.

Helter Skelter! 
Nailed It Mankrip 
I am pretty sure that the last kickstarter that had Romeros involvement also failed massively, only it was his wifes RPG thing (if I remember). He had a very small appearance but it definitely left me a bit shaky, it's a shame too because Brenda has been involved in some pretty huge projects previously.

I would be more interested and filled with confidence if the project was aiming for Doom/Quake fidelity of graphics.

Romero has to remember that he's part of the indie scene at this point and his best bet is to hit on those nostalgia tones 100%. While the idea of a hologram is great it really looks super generic on the artwork front.

I don't think they're trying hard enough, playing it smart or showing creative flair or innovation. 
 
Problem is you can't go to Kickstarter with few concepts and promises, it doesn't work anymore.
2nd thing is this whole holographic world... It's like:
"Hey! We have this holographic thing which can generate any world you like!"
which in fact sounds like:
"We have no idea what world we want to design, so we'll just do holographic thing so we can put any shit we gonna come up with later."

Shame... 
 
I have to agree they are not trying hard enough somehow.

The concept needs to be more mature.

The whole UE4 thing is a terrible idea I think, too much overhead to get anything done, loads of shit AAA studios excell at churning out, whats the point of competing there ?

You need limits to focus with a small team / high concept game and UE4 is virtually limitless 
 
I tend to think people don't like it when famous well-known developers use begging crowdfunding services like Kickstarter.

It might just be as simple as that.

I kinda see their point. Kickstarter should be for penniless dudes who can't get funding any other way. 
 
I would be excited if the game was Doom-tech. And if the existing graphics were not such cheesy amateur work. And if they had anything to show. A moddb with weapon renders and a design document has as much potential to be good. 
Agreed 
I need to see a gameplay video or a rendered screenshot...something other than promise and concept. I also am not too keen on the holographic goofy tech theme. 
 
I also am not too keen on the holographic goofy tech theme.

This is a problem for me too. It's like they feel they need to have a "real-world" justification for the unrealistic oldschool elements, so came up with "it's a hologram, that's means we can design whatever we want and it all makes sense within the story! Aren't we clever!"

No. You should be able to design whatever you want because IT'S A BLOODY GAME.

They think they are being clever, but they are actually handwringing over the abstract vs realism stuff just as much as every other modern developer. 
I Have Always Enjoyed Quake 
Because of the medieval/dark fantasy atmosphere and the arsenal/baddies that come with it. What is commonplace as a SMG is a nailgun!

Tech shooters in general rarely hold my interest mostly for the "real-world" justification Kinn described above. I think "RWJ" kills it for me and that applies to most games. 
Undying. 
That did that shit pretty well. 
Patrick Galloway 
Loved Undying, fantastic game that did not really justify the real-world now did it? Heck, they even managed to mix some RPG elements in there and still make it kick ass!

DOOM 3's HELL level always reminded me of Oneiros. 
 
It's like they feel they need to have a "real-world" justification for the unrealistic oldschool elements, so came up with "it's a hologram, that's means we can design whatever we want and it all makes sense within the story! Aren't we clever!"

I see the hologram theme more as a justification for how locations and entities from different time periods merge together. There are other ways to go about such a premise, but I really don't care what the mindset is behind the decision they've made. What difference does it make if they try to make it make sense or if they don't, they already decided to make abstract levels.

The holographic stuff is a problem for me because of the weapons they've come up with. I doubt that anyone in the world wants to play with holographic toys. Most importantly, those "Boxel" abilities sound more like impediments to Doom/Quake style gameplay rather than gameplay mechanics that add to it.

I hope the backers use their position of power and negotiate with Romero and company to steer the weapons and ability stuff to a different direction. 
Holograms 
those "Boxel" abilities sound more like impediments to Doom/Quake style gameplay

This all the way. What seems like it should be enticing to people is a deterrent for old school...erm old schoolness!

I do not want the ability to stop time...that makes a combat situation completely one sided for the player. How about the stop time power would be a one-time use mod for the boxel that is found in secret areas!

That's all speculation but the point is I need to see something with more substance than what is currently being offered by the Kickstarter. 
 
The holographic theme isn't to justify any theme, but to justify transitioning themes multiple times within a level, and on simple events. We still typically stick to one theme within a level, and if there is a transition, it is through a teleporter of some sort - not the world changing around you. 
Canceled 
Wow 
Probably a smart decision. A playable demo is certainly the substance I am talking about. 
 
Backers only post. Care to copy paste? 
 
Dear Backers,

After listening to the gaming community since we've launched the campaign, we've decided to give you what you've asked for: a gameplay demo of BLACKROOM. The team is at work on a demo which demonstrates the kind of gameplay, look and innovative, cool features that make BLACKROOM truly unique � the things we�ve waited years to put into an FPS and which make us incredibly excited about this game.

There�s a hitch here, a hitch that�s making us do something that�s right for the game, the team, and the community: we�re pressing �PAUSE� on the fundraising campaign for BLACKROOM to complete this gameplay demo. Simply put, this will take more time than the Kickstarter has left, so we�ve decided to suspend the campaign and launch a new one when the gameplay demo is ready. We believe, however, it is the right choice. Thanks to the community feedback, we know we should have included it at launch.

Your support for our game and our vision has been incredible and valuable. You've already proved you want this campaign to succeed, and we believe a gameplay demo will get the rest of the gaming community just as excited for this game as you already are. We will, of course, honor backer achievements in the next campaign. We�ll add an extra something for those of you who continue to support us and we will be in touch to collect your information to reward your support in the next campaign.

While we're working on the first gameplay demo, we welcome you to stay in touch with us at nightworkgames.com and @nightworkgames. Sign up for our newsletter for regular updates. You�re also welcome to email us at info@nightworkgames.com.

Fondly,
John, Adrian, & The Night Work Games Team 
 
Thanks for the paste.

Yeah... You need to have a LOT of content to show people honestly. Just look at the Kickstarters for Pillars of Eternity and Darkest Dungeon, then look at the Kickstarter for Strafe which exploded with an entertaining video, massively slumped, then exploded again with a playable demo. 
Le Mayo 
 
It's A Bit Of A Relief 
I was afraid the game was 100% cancelled, but I'm glad they're just pausing funds so they can release a playable demo everybody could play.
It's the best scenario IMO. 
Good I Guess 
Now we just need to convince them to make it all solid and tactile and quakey, and ditch all that glowy tranluscent hololight shit.

I want my shotgun to look like it's been shoved up a demon's arse a few times, not some pretty neon clown fart. 
"Gameplay Demo" 
As far as I can tell, there's no confirmation that the demo is something that's going to be distributed and playable. "Gameplay demo" to me sounds like a video demonstration. If it were going to be a demo, they'd call it a plain demo or playable demo. They would want to make it absolutely clear that it's something playable if it were because that would drum up more excitement. 
Boxels 
http://www.develop-online.net/news/romero-delays-blackroom-kickstarter-to-finish-off-gameplay-demo/0219823

�We want to show off the Boxel UI and how that works in a fast-paced game, because that�s something a lot of people have been asking. We want to show things that are new about the game, the speed of it, and what we�re trying to get across. It should only take us a few months to bring all of that together. It won�t be a full level, but it will be enough gameplay to show off the speed and all the other things we�re talking about.�

I'm glad that there are people who expressed concern about that Boxel stuff and good on Romero for acknowledging the issue. 
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