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Thanks Baker, I found that build last night and it's fantastic for playing Quake as authentically as possible.
Is there a reason why this It just makes no sense to me at all. The regular WinQuake can hit higher frames per second, doesn't matter much for small resolutions but if someone decides to max out in a very large resolution there is a gap.
It is actually maintained because the Linux and Mac versions of Mark V WinQuake are WinQuake-GL builds, I just don't put a Windows one in the Windows Also, there have been two longstanding bugs to do with monster spawns that have been around since the original WinQuake - one in e3m3 where the fiend spawns midway in the air in the circular lava room when the final bridge activates and another in e4m7 where the zombies spawn after killing all the underwater zombies in the first circular room. In both cases the monsters are stuck in the air after spawning when they should fall to the ground/water and start attacking. Could you look into fixing these issues?
Are you sure that these are engine and not QC bugs? My recollection is that they happen in all engines, not just WinQuake. If QC bugs it would be inappropriate to modify this behaviour in the engine.
There's definitely source ports out there that fix these issues, but I admit that most I've seen don't.
Why would it be inappropriate to modify this behaviour in the engine? They are gameplay bugs after all so shouldn't they be fixed? If the bug is due to bad QC code or mapping errors, then changing the behaviour of the engine to work around the bug does carry a risk: some mods may be using this behaviour of the engine intentionally to create a desirable effect. The fix for the bug in vanilla will break those mods in your engine. Which isn't to say that it's never the right choice to make those kinds of change, but you have to be thinking about the potential cost as well.
QuakeC is game logic in a progs.dat, found in Quake pak0.pak. It exists outside the engine and is the game logic program. It can be compiled with a QuakeC compiler like fteqcc.
Some people (like preach) are really into QuakeC, he is the main author of Quoth and was involved in Arcane Dimensions. Concise version: QuakeC behavior isn't related to the engine. Quake Info Pool - Currently not researched Quake bugs
"Right in the beginning on E4M7 some Zombies start spawning after you kill the ones in the water. If you stay under water as you kill them, the new ones will spawn above you, and fall down into the water. However, if you kill the ones already there under water, and get back up on the ground level, the Zombies will spawn in the ceiling, and just hang there." Reported by Alexander "Prodigy" Møller Demo is available for download (e4m7zombie.zip) QIP lives! Quake has a lot of silly mysteries/annoying things. It probably is a map design flaw.
Video examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFQVP5cKcSo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pnf9HDNFz4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JasyI2SFUuk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS0vigujrXo Can't imagine how this one is possible.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9ri7Abpl_0 The zombies' teleport entry points in e4m7 are just too close to the ceiling.
But if you have an online server with a sys_ticrate of 0.1 then they fall just fine, because the server doesn't check their position fast enough to know they are stuck before they fall far enough to not be stuck. sys_ticrate It can be fixed directly in the map or with QuakeC by altering the locations of the teleport points. Hey, *I* am an advanced user!!
Uh, is tool_inspector broken? it seems broken (in both GL and DX 8, 9). I had to go back to version 1.27 to make it work again. It did not work for me in 1.28 Ok, here is what the zombie problem is, I believe: In triggers.qc, info_teleport_destination function raises ALL teleport destinations by 27 units upward. I think this is to get them off the ground a bit, to make sure monsters don't get stuck in the floor, hah. Well, the problem is that it causes the zombie teleport destinations in e4m7 to move too close to the ceiling. Though oddly, it's not completely consistent that the zombies get stuck. Sometimes they seem to fall just fine in single player, other times they may get stuck.... Maybe it has something to do with whether they are moving or seeking a target or something when they teleport in. Or it could even have to do with the FPS you are getting in Quake.... Yeah, that might make sense -- if you are getting really high FPS, then Quake checks sooner to see where the zombies are, and determines they are partially in the ceiling. If you are getting a lower FPS, then the physics check doesn't happen quite as fast, so the zombies fall down a bit and free themselves. That may explain why the original Quake people didn't catch the problem; they weren't getting a really high FPS back in the 90s! But that's just a guess on my part, knowing that Quake physics are dependent on your frame rate. In any case, lowering the teleport destinations should fix the problem. So load e4m7, then type in console: copy ents Go paste those ents into a text file: \id1\maps\e4m7.ent Go to line 883, 889, 895 and change the "origin" Z values from 136 to 100, just to be safe. Save the file. Problem solved. The problem is solved! We solved the problem... So ev'rything is awesome! Problem solved! Yes, you are certainly an advanced user, haha.
You might consider uploading that file to somewhere for jayoo. If you do, I'll mirror a permanent copy of the file. ericw may interested in it as well. /Yeah, Pritchard pointed out I messed up the inspector. As a quick double-check, playing it with a sufficiently low host_maxfps should be enough to confirm the theory
That sounds like a very plausible cause Gunter (though I am far from an advanced user!).
I'd really appreciate it if you could run me through the steps to fix this and the other instance of the bug I mentioned. Thanks for looking into this everyone! I'd really appreciate it if you could run me through the steps to fix this
He did just that in post #1686... I'll give you some pointers since you are passionate about this stuff.
That being said, after this initial information I'll leave it to others to give you tips or answer any follow up questions you have --- mostly because I'm largely "engine-only" and this is more QuakeC (gunter/preach) and mapping territory. In that Mark V 1.25 or up to 1.27 in the Open GL version ONLY, there is tool inspector. Activate it by typing tool_inspector 1. Type "impulse 9" and switching weapons with change information. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QplswG5umo For the map you want to fix, like Gunter said, load the map and type "copy ents" in the console. Open a decent text editor like TextPad or NotePad++ and paste that text into the editor. Then save the file as c:\quake\id1\maps\e4m7.ent. From the information for tool inspector (you may need to type like "edict 3" (where 3 is an entity edict number) in the console, you can find out enough information to locate the mapping entity information in the Doing anything with this information, it is very helpful if you are a mapper (what this site is all about) or QuakeC master (gunter is). But what Gunter did was edit some spawn point coordinates. A You might struggle with this at first if you aren't a mapper. Happy hunting! Yep, setting host_maxfps 16 or slower does indeed make them fall down, even if they are currently stuck.
But even host_maxfps 20 is making them stick.... Ah... that's why they were falling last night on me -- I had tool_inspector enabled, and that was killing my FPS, haha. And as I have pointed out, sys_ticrate of But in the end, it's a bad interaction between QuakeC and the map itself. The instructions I gave should be pretty simple to follow to fix it with an Though it would probably be better if someone really wanted to test to see EXACTLY how far the zombies need to be moved down to still fall correctly. Don't look at me; I don't care that much. I run my server with Guhhh... who am I kidding? Now that I said it, I can't not do it... heh. Oh, well, it looks like they only need lowered by 3 units to work correctly (from 136 to 133). Do I really need to upload the I thought only the spiked version did. Thanks for the info, Baker.
I managed to fix the issues. Still need to trial and error the E3M3 fiend spawn position but the zombies in E4M7 were an easy fix. Thanks again!
OK, after much messing around with an
Maybe I'm missing something obvious so any help would be appreciated. Perhaps I should try reading instructions more carefully in future...
I used tool inspector to find the offending fiend's actual target_name and changed the teleport coordinates to fix the spawn. e3m3 Line 1244 "origin" "-832 416 140"
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