1) Yes, but they crash the same way.
However, the WinQuake and DirectX versions don't give any crash reports. That only happens with the original Mark V .exe. :P

2) I'm sure there is, I'll still check to make sure.

Mentioning OpenGL reminded me of something:

My GPU only supports up to OpenGL 2.0. This gave me lots of compatibility issues with programs that require OpenGL 2.1. 

Correction:
1) No, they crash almost the same way.
(I misread what you wrote up there, sorry) 

If WinQuake or Direct3D are crashing, your OpenGL drivers aren't involved in this. Neither use Open GL. WinQuake doesn't use anything at all ;-)

So it is something else.

I never actually suspected a drivers problem, mostly wanted to rule it out. It but seems unlikely.

I have couple of suspects.

I imagine in the next 72 hours or less, I'll make a special build with some of Spike's inventiveness, and then exactly what is going will be clear.

Thanks for the feedback ;-) 

Well, I was wrong. There was no such file as opengl32.dll in my Quake folder. :P 

Been looking for an update of WinQuake and so happy to see you giving it some love, Baker! The original software renderer is still very charming. I love that washed out shading, you can't replicate it in Quakespasm.

Tried loading Arcane Dimensions with this and was surprised to find out that it mostly works. The engine even auto converts the full color skyboxes to 8 bit! However some textures with alpha channel are broken, the fog in ad_necrokeep looks especially bad, and ad_swampy crashes when you get to the main area. Anyway, what I'm getting to is, any chance your version of WinQuake could be fully compatible with Arcane Dimensions? AD is probably the best benchmark for the modern map packs, so it'd be a good milestone to achieve, I think. 

I am sure Baker will eventually provide builds for *all* MkV builds that fully work with latest AD additions. Maybe even Ter Shibboleth. These days, mappers are doing everything to push Quake map specifications beyond any previously known limits. I hope that eventually we'll have a solution which won't require updating ports over and over again to make maps work. 

Fog in custom Quake maps is usually too subtle, to disguise the fact that it's not volumetric.

Custom Quake maps can "fake" volumetric fog by making some areas small enough for the fog to not show up, and making other areas large enough for the fog to cover them. Combining this with strong shadows in the small areas and very subtle shadows in the large areas makes the global fog seem to have different densities in each area.

The thing is, subtle color translations are very difficult to pull off in 8-bit color palettes. Large areas of the screen ends up being rounded to similar color values, resulting in huge color banding if not dithered, or heavy graining if dithered. This gets even worse when the raw color of the fog doesn't exist in the Quake palette.

Making fog look good in 8-bit color renderers requires design restrictions that the mappers won't adhere to. Just like transparencies usually looks awful in 8-bit color, fog and colored lighting will usually look awful too.

A fun thing is that the same principles applies to regular lighting. Vanilla Quake maps features mostly strong shadows, because subtle shading has lots of banding in the software renderer. But newer Quake maps usually disregards this limitation, because they're usually only designed for hardware renderers. Most of the awfully looking maps from the 90's usually failed to understand this limitation too. 

Another reason for the subtle fog in custom Quake maps is to disguise the fact it's not spherical. Thick flat fog looks bad when turning the camera. 

I've done some more testing in Mark V WinQuake and turns out the water/teleporter transparency (r_wateralpha) actually works, via dithering. I suppose the same effect could be applied to the fake fog layer in ad_necrokeep. It just seems like the engine has no support for alpha channel in textures, e.g. various trees and vines in AD and Jam 8 are broken, with solid white where they should be transparent. 

Put these guys in the maps folder and you'll have transparent water on the stock id1 maps

External .vis files for original Quake maps

They should work in DarkPlaces as well.

The original Quake maps don't treat water as transparent.

Alpha masked/alpha transparency doesn't work in the WinQuake version for brush models at this time (tried it maybe 4 different times, something I'm not understanding about the WinQuake depth buffer or draw process prevents me from getting the job done in this case.).

It actually works for .mdl models, but few maps use that although it might be visible in Arcane Dimensions in some cases. 

Alpha masked/alpha transparency doesn't work in the WinQuake version for brush models at this time (tried it maybe 4 different times, something I'm not understanding about the WinQuake depth buffer or draw process prevents me from getting the job done in this case.).

The BSP renderer sorts depth by edge at the spans level, rather than at the pixel level. To avoid this, I've tried partially reinitializing the BSP renderer upon rendering each alphamasked BSP surface, but this resulted in massive slowdowns. Now I only reinitialize it once for each BSP entity containing alphamasked surfaces. Qbism did something similar in Super8, IIRC.

Quake's spans-related code needs a lot of work. It's non-intuitive and has bugs such as this.

I don't fully understand it yet either, but I'm sure the reinitialization overhead can be eliminated almost completely. I should only manage to do so after fully rewriting it, though. 

Thanks for the link. Looks like a good read.

I had determined that some sort of reset was required, but either I did it in the wrong place or performed it incorrectly. Or the third possibility of something I am not considering and wasn't on my radar.

Some day in the future I'll make another attempt. Last time I almost got "serious" (I was piece by piece reimplementing qbism super8 in WinQuake until I isolated what I didn't understand), but then something more shiny to me pulled me away (probably something Spike did in Spiked Quakespasm like single port server).

Network code to me > everything else ;-) 

One more thing, does WinQuake Mark V support any kind of HUD scaling? Integers like 2x, 3x etc would look quite good even in software rendering I'd wager. The usual scr_*scale commands don't seem to work. 

In the video menu, stretch is as close as it comes, emulating 320x240 or 640x480 as best it can depending on your current display mode.

It isn't exactly the same thing as scaling the HUD, and for most people it is probably "good enough" -- although as a purist I don't feel it is good enough.

But since it would be quite time consuming and effort to implementing true scaling (aka FitzQuake) in the software rendering with the appropriate alpha masking support, such a thought sits somewhere closer towards to the back of list rather than the front.

Keep in mind a trule scaling solution needs to handle all 2D graphics like the menu, scoreboard, etc. otherwise it would be quite silly. 

Hmm, seems like the original renderer is pretty limited.

For the record, I've tried Qbism, and it does have HUD scaling and alpha channel support for textures, but I get heavy FPS drops in Arcane Dimensions, when there are any alpha channel textures in my line of sight.

Could we do this another way around and emulate the original paletted 8 bit look in OpenGL? In particular the lighting color map. 

....on trigger_changelevel - is this a known issue or could it be my map?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-xkqcrQhLm7Z3RVeVZZUFdwVlE/view?usp=sharing

It's happened multiple times and on demo playback as well. 

I know exactly how do it. It isn't a question of that at all. The question is, of the things I can do, would I find that interesting enough to want to do before the 25 things that do interest me. If you understand.

Ask Spike or mh or ericw or metlslime or qbism or mankrip, part of an engine coding for a leisure activity is wanting to do the task.

@dumptruck_ds .. don't know. If it progresses to become a released map, I'll make a mental note of it after it is confirmed it doesn't crash any other engine. 

paletted look with gl = fte with r_softwarebanding 1 (or just use the softwarey preset). 

re: the map. tested on Quakespasm-admod last night and it was fine. I will do some further tests with other clients this evening and report back but for now at least that engine behaves as intended.

My trigger change level is made up of some weird shapes as you can sort of see in the screenshot. Not sure if that could be a cause or not. 

it seems the tool_inspector is broken on your latest release v36

also i've got a new video card gtx1070, and noticed a very weird video gliches with the fog enabled

there's no such gliches if i'm using quakespasm engine tho 

here's a captured video
http://quaketastic.com/files/demobug.rar 

 

Yeah, Pritchard reported the tool inspector issue a while back and then a couple of others later on.

I saw the glitching in your video. Could you give me "viewpos" coordinates and map name (or as an alternative the demo which gets me the same information).

I'm guessing since it only happens in certain frame, it occurs when a lavaball pops into view.

Quakespasm and Mark V and Mark V D3D all draw very differently, so the different behavior isn't unsurprising.

I'll make a note to try to recreate the next time I have my hands on a NVidia card machine. Since NVidia updates the drivers all the time, it is a possibility that this is a driver issue that will go away in a future driver update, but I'm not going to make that assumption.

Thanks for the high detail issue report. 

i've updated nvidia driver to the latest version

this glitch is only happens when the fog is enabled, disabling the fog removes the problem
would you mind if i'll send the map
to your mail? 

Spy, you know I think you are awesome.

I am email free! And I love it!

If it needs to be done privately, I guess you could send a private message at QuakeOne.com.