by Bengt Jardrup, v0.19 Jan 12 2007

Almost 10 years! 

I know I know... don't shoot me.

VIS's only function is to make a map play "fast"/smooth right? Meaning, have the best frames possible. But with PC's today, even my old rig here, all levels typically play fast.

One night at Gotshun's we were looking through some of the large levels and were surprised to see quite a few had no VIS at all. Or at least "showtris 1" didn't show that anything was being removed/hidden from view.

This is why I ask this question. Is there some other benefit?

OFC, there's no ambient sky and water without at least running -fast(true?). 

Ignoring world polys for a minute, I think only having to deal with the entities that are in the PVS has a big benefit - a coder should be able to explain better. 

Don't be ridiculous. With proper mapping and use of func_detail, full vis will take seconds on a map that would have otherwise taken months.

Nowadays light is an exponentially bigger bottleneck in compiling than vis. 

http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=61178&start=68 

DarkPlaces doesn't support per entity alpha unless the progs supports the field

Here are pictures of the map petes1, which I believe you are familiar with ... and these pictures show the lack of translucency ...

DarkPlaces October 2016 build | DarkPlaces January 2017

Possibilities:

You have something in your Quake folder you don't realize. DarkPlaces reads every single pak and pk3 in your Quake folder regardless of the name, and will load any free floating file sitting around.

Plus there is an extra Windows directory under "Users" where something could have downloaded and it'll read from there too. 

I thought the last dp build was from 2014? where can I find these later builds? 

Here's my test DP's Quake and id1 directories:

http://imgur.com/a/1bVeR

pak2 is simply the watervissed maps and pak3 is mine which is simply a different console background.

I have no clue why it works for me, strange. Sorry if I've misled anyone. 

https://icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces/download.html
The links under "Latest development autobuild release (updated every 6 hours)" 

I checked the size of my pak0.pak(17.8 MB | 18,689,235 bytes), it matches what is in the QuakeWiki(1996-10-01 14:25:58 18689235). 

thanks, hidden in plain sight :P 

Don't know. Being the master of your own Quake folder is something everyone personally has to bring to the party. ;-)

Keep in mind Bloughsburgh asked why DarkPlaces doesn't support entity alpha for stock id1.

Why would he make that up?

/If you see what I mean there, haha ;-) 

That being said, I did some more tests and there is some sort of X factor going on here.

Perhaps something not well known about DarkPlaces.

I did a rough test with an external .ent file and it worked. But petes1.bsp doesn't?

So something strange or not well known is happening? 

Baker:Keep in mind Bloughsburgh asked why DarkPlaces doesn't support entity alpha for stock id1.

Why would he make that up?


Bloughsburgh:damage_inc: Ah there we have it...my issue is happening with func_illusionaries...I actually do not have any func walls using alpha.


He wasn't making it up.

IIRC, petes1 works as intended in QS but the brush settings are to subtle then for DP's. I to thought it didn't work, as well as someone on here, I forget the name of the person... but it does.

I'm not trying to be argumentative and hope it doesn't come off that way. I just want to know ;) 

I did some more tests using external .ent files.

And entity alpha does seem to work in DarkPlaces?

Yet petes1.bsp doesn't? Not even when using Quoth.

So ... perhaps you are correct or there is something missing piece of information that would explain this?

I do know that historically DarkPlaces required an alpha field in the progs.dat to support alpha, which is one reason mods like Quoth have that field.

But apparently this has changed, and I get that because that's just the nature of engines adapting.

But I don't understand why it isn't being consistent.

+1 mysteries of the universe.

Looks like damage isn't insane and is in fact correct.

Baker's example may be correct and should show entity alpha, but doesn't but perhaps for different reason than the current topic.

Then again we still have Bloughburgh's example?

Conclusion: Hell if I know!!! 

I wasn't trying to be either.

I think we both had good intents and wanted to get to the bottom of this.

Weird stuff. We both had affirmative examples, haha.

/Oh well ... 

With this link: https://icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces/files/?C=M;O=D you can even access all builds sorted from most recent to oldest. I suggest keeping this link handy. 

IIRC, petes1 works as intended in QS but the brush settings are to subtle then for DP's. I to thought it didn't work, as well as someone on here, I forget the name of the person...
petes1 is Gotshun's Jump, right? In that case this person would be me. I originally thought the alpha on the windows didn't work but in fact it does, though it is indeed much less obvious than in QS. 

YES, Jump and yes... you! Since we haven't conversed much I couldn't be sure it was you.

For just a map release you can't have both a QS setting and a DP setting for things. So we went with the highest common denominator, QS. Especially considering the <3 DP gets around here :-P

Also, to make matters worse for me using DP, I have both upper and lower sky scroll slowed down. Until you posted I didn't remember that :( 

Especially considering the <3 DP gets around here
Not wrong. Though to be fair, Func_ is not the be-all-end-all of the Quake community. QuakeOne has more people who are only players, and while DP gets much more love there, you don't see many people talking about QS or Mark V...

For future maps, why not release two versions, one geared towards the Fitz/QS family and one for DP? They could both be included in the same archive to avoid a mess of engine-specific releases at Quaddicted. When I'm ready to release maps, that's what I intend to do if I notice such behavioral differences. 

I'm always afraid I making my maps too dark. I'll load up the id levels from time to time to do an eyeball comparison. But is there some more "formal" way of ensuring maps aren't too dark?

Maybe a way to measure levels on a screenshot in Photoshop or a similar method? 

If your monitor is properly calibrated and your Quake set to default brightness/gamma, then if it's not too dark on your screen it should be good for most people.

Of course, there's also a matter of taste at play here: someone like NewHouse tends to make rather dark maps. I like it but I remember some people complaining about it when he released his first map. You can't please everyone. 

http://imgur.com/a/K40Wh

my question is:
if i have those two brushes, with non-integer vertices but with integer planes,, i can expect problems in-game, or weird qbsp problems?
how well qbsp handle rational numbers? 

I like to have a bit of overlap in my brushes in that situation, so if things get rounded off or otherwise mangled they usually turn out okay anyway. 

Intersecting brushes are generally okay. You can sometimes get odd lighting at the junction/seam where they meet. You could also create basically the same thing with separate brushes that have all vertices on grid.