with q3map2 and all of it's bazillion features or whatever 

I haven't researched the idea of Q3 bsp in Q1 yet. Can monsters still navigate the same? i.e. are the clipping hulls the same?

As for Q3 textures, well actually they are the same scale because I resize them 50% before I do the palette conversion.

And yes, having to use totally different compile tools would be a headache as well (not to mention having to switch to GTK). 

Those stats are after I replace the valley floors of my terrain with large flat brushes, which reduced the clinodes cosiderably. 

Another thing I need to do though is isolate patches of terrain that combine to form convex shapes, and replace those with single brushes. That should reduce a lot of overhead if I can find lots of instances of that. 

you're going to need it ;P 

yeah - although I reckon if I go really crazy with the clip brushes, I can probably get the clipnodes under the limit. 

a general interest in me publishing a high-capacity WinQuake 1.20 variant similar to GLQuake 1.20? 

That would be cool. Winquake has many useful features lacking in GL, r_drawflat for instance.

Btw, something I've been meaning to ask you; I've been using -hull # in your bsp tool recently, and I've noticed that clip brushes are still invisible - is that intended? 

. 

but also standard limitations on clipnodes etc. 

I previously have had no problems in my test maps with Q1 monsters in Q3 bsp's. Of course the hull construction has to be different to accomadate the crouching mode.

I had planned to send you one of my test maps, but when I tested it in Dark Places the bugger crashed! I have been tweeking the Dark Places code for my own sordid purposes, so that may be the culprit and then again, it could be a corrupted .bsp

I suggest building a small DM map with a good deal of connectivity and then running Reaperbots in the map. If the reapers can navigate in it then surely any monster set up you may have in mind would definitely work.

I'll get back to you later in the day. 

Sounds cool. I'd like to hear from any Q3 gurus, how do the hulls work in Q3 bsp? Logic would suggest that there only needs to be two hulls - a player hull and a crouch hull. Either way, they must be different to the Q1 hulls. So how does DarkPlaces handle the monster clipping? 

if you could put in the r_drawflat on your glquake engine, that'd be nice. ;) 

OK, I'll see what I can do. I have already a version where most of the improvements from my GLQuake seem to work, but there are a few weird things I'll have to investigate further. WinQuake also have the r_draworder cvar that's useful for checking visibility.

Kinn: Yes, clipbrushes are always removed entirely from hull 0. I actually haven't thought of if this is correct or not when using the hull # option.

Necros: I don't know how much work that is atm, maybe later. 

The bsp was corrupt. For shame! I am compiling a new version of it at this time. Currently it is giving Q3map2 a run for its money. I made extreme rez textures (each is at least 4 megs in size) for it with the idea of compiling the light maps and then replacing the textures with lower rez ones later.

As it stands it would actually be a decent map for Quake 3 Tourney, well after the textures are replaced, and a sky box is added . . . 

AguirRe, would it be difficult to make clipbrushes visible in -hull# builds? That would strike me as quite a useful option, as it would give a true visual indication of the clipping hull.

HeadThump, 4 meg textures? o_O. I hadn't thought of the idea of using hi-res textures to generate lightmaps, then replacing the textures. Although I don't think i'll be going down that road. 

It sounds like a good idea and it also appears easy to implement. But after looking at a typical DM map where large parts of the walls, floors etc are covered with the clip texture, I'm not so sure it's such a good idea.

Maybe this sounds awkward, but you can get a similar effect by just replacing "clip" with e.g. "clap" in a temporary copy of the map file and build with the hull # option.

You'll then either see the "clap" texture (if there is one) or the checkerboard pattern instead of the clipbrushes.

Have you tried this?

The search/replace operation can be automated using a standard sed (stream edit) utility if it needs to be repeated. 

They played like manly men. No problems.

A few notes about the Dark Places Q3 bsp implementation that is even different from its Q1 protocol. Ambient lights are stripped out and only sourced lights are used.

Models for the sourced lights are stripped out too. Its the biggest bitch I have with DP. You have to custom cache them in your mod like you did with that huge flame in Bastion (I know this works in Bastion, I've done a little, uhm, experimenting with it on the side).

You can convert the flames to Spr32 format and you'll get some sweet high high rez particle effects with them. Also, you can use glow or luma textures on surface lights. You wont even miss the old ambient light entity everywhere.

I'll convert everything to low rez so I can ship it to you. Don't expect much from those textures. They are just place holder solids. 

how do i make 2 buttons to open one door? been trying to figure it out by myself for a while, but no luck. :(

this is for q1, me uses worldcraft 

AguirRe, that sounds reasonable, I hadn't thought of doing a temporary texture replacement.

HeadThump, email received, but Outlook Express detects it as a virus for some f'kin stupid reason, so I can't view it. 

give your "func_door" a targetname of "xxx" and then create a "trigger_counter" with a targetname of "yyy". Set the count of the "trigger_counter" to 2 and give it a target of "xxx" (same as the targetname of the "func_door"). Then give both buttons a target of "yyy" (same as the targetname of the "trigger_counter") and your done. 

Of all the programs to complain about viruses. I checked that zip package with Avast antivirus before sending it out. I'm pretty carefull about that sort of thing.

But I'll just upload it to the geocities site when I get back in this afternoon. 

Cheers, that would be cool. 

Instead of clipping hulls like quake and half-life use, quake 2 and quake 3 store the original brushes from the map file and use those for collision. This is why monsters in quake 2 can be all different sizes.

How this works is, clipping hulls are basically bsps built out of pre-expanded brushes. Since they are pre-expanded, they are built for specific entity sizes. But in quake2 and 3, the brushes are expanded on the fly, which means they can be expanded differently for each entity size they encounter. 

thanks man. will go try that now. :)