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Obscurus (TC) -- Input
Howdy, folks, it's Mindcrime.

The Nehahra dude.

As my development of Obscurus is going to begin again very shortly (after a looooong hiatus), I am left with a choice of which engine to build Obscurus off of. I am not keen on working with an engine coder to make Obscurus's own special engine. I'd rather avoid this potential (and probable) headache.

I am not interested in having any additional engine effects. I can do a lot on my own from the progs.dat side.

I have narrowed the engines down to two choices:

A) The Nehahra Engine & Darkplaces

I would build it off the nehahra.exe for my own use, but in the end, of course, it would run off darkplaces as well ((with or without the -nehahra parameter I'm not sure)).

So this gives people two choices. Nehahra.exe or Darkplaces.exe ... seems accomodating.


B) Fitzquake - this appears, at least to me, to be the favored engine of mappers...


Any input from you mappers/sorry-saps-who-will-end-up-being-the-ones-to-play-the-thing-eventually would be appreciated.

Danke :P
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Oink X2 
you are the least articulate professional writer i know

You don't know very many, do you? Either that or I only know the least articulate of the least articulate. 
Hey Mindcrime 
how things go??? :) hope everything o.k with the project and with you :)

chears Trinca 
Has anything been happening to the project? 
Is everything going smoothly? Expecting the release date.

And, I hope you wouldn't come up with a weapon system as terrible as that of Unreal/Unreal2's. Much weapons of these two games lay latent for most of the time I playing them. Different weapons are not fully differentiated. Personally, I do prefer a simple and straightforward weap system like that of quakes. 
Dropping In, Leaving A Few Cents. Obscure Ideas And More. 
A game that evolves and does not end.

Mindcrime, it sounds like you secretly want to drop the FPS paradigm altogether and create a true living world in computer space, where the monsters don't simply sit around and wait for you to come and blast them, but lead intricate personal lives and influence the world around them. Sure there are MMORPGS which are constantly evolving worlds (Second Life comes to mind) but you can't control the roles that the other actors play, or what they create, like you can for an AI. This, it seems to me, is the mapper's ideal: creating a place which, when experienced (played), extends beyond its initial parameters (emergent behavior or somesuch). Will Obscurus be anything like this? Only Mindcrime knows. But I think it can only be a good thing (for the sake of atmosphere and immersion) when the game world either seems or is larger than what the player immediately experiences.

I've always dreamt of creating a massively interconnected and convoluted medieval city, where the player could explore every nook and cranny and find detail, design, and activity. A city with a social structure, a purpose, inhabitants who go about doing something. The most recent incarnation is of my vision is being made for Nehahra because that's the only quake mod which possesses anywhere near the required features (all those AI flags are great... but there is potential for so much more, yes?)

Nonlinear hub designs are good for another reason: you can build a coherent place much larger than what the quake engine would normally allow.

Oh, and you should definitely keep the Jagger. He's such an atmospheric monster; just walks around and makes creepy noises. And he's a social monster to, to infer from the entities that control him. What kind of activity would go on in a Jagger colony? Females rearing young, and males hunting fish. And what if there were an artifact in the heart of the underground colony (I imagine it something like a beaver's nest, but much larger) that you had to retrieve, that the jaggers were very territorial about? Hmm, my mind wanders, but that'd be a really cool map.

Apparently this post keeps evolving and does not end. I think I've been reading too many architecture books lately. I found this one called "Shelter And Society" which has great pictures of indigineous architecture all over the world. Some Norweigan farming villages gave me good inspiration for using the Rune textures. ;)

OK now I'm really rambling. Bye now, and have a good rest-of-the-summer, everybody. 
Sounds... you're describing what Stalker is supposed to be... if it ever comes out. O_o

General Bleghery 
For those who A) care, and B) haven't been paying attention [ and interesting combination ].. I've updated the Nehahra site. I have been updating it for a while now. I thought I'd mention it here as Nehahra doesn't have a thread of its own, to my knowledge. This is Obscurus related in a way as a partial merger between Obscurus and Nehahra occurred. But as for the rest of Obscurus... well... I do not know what will come of it... I hadn't planned a Nehahra Episode 4.. only a revamp... now there's both.


And yeah, now that I'm around regularly (have been.. just not on the msgboard..) I'll take any questions, suggestions, insults, death threats, whatever :) 
Mindcrime dont makes us get water in our mouth...finish the work, for us to keep playing this great addon that u start many years ago... :) and many people keep loving it!

cheers my friend :)

I tried running quake with the extension -game obscurus and it got unhappy with me.

I demand you fix this problem immediately! 
dont use drugs... :) 
Re: Obscurus 
On the Ob subject, I had a brilliant epiphany about 2 months ago regarding Obscurus and Quake in general. One that's too irresistible not to implement, if I were to move forward on an 'Obscurus TC', but then to implement it means starting over in most of the ways that matter. Ripping everything out of code and starting from scratch. Because it changes the way I would do everything. It would also render a lot of the model content (monsters) obsolete, as it changes the way animation and monsters are handled. It changes too much, you could say.

When something amazing occurs to you though, it's very difficult to continue on as you were and try to pretend that you never had experienced said epiphany....

What it comes down to now is the Obscurus 'concept' and the Obscurus content.. whether those two will part. It is likely that the Obscurus content and much of its code will splinter (keeping the stuff that isn't obsolete, booting the stuff that is which will then be funneled into Quake stuffs and future Nehahra stuffs so long as it is conceptually and visually compatible (as has already started to happen, albeit on a small scale, and the fact that Obscurus was an indirect off-shoot of Quake/Nehahra universes from the start is certainly helpful).

This probably means good things for Quake in general--a lot of the Ob stuff coming out in other forms through the Quake channel.

If what I've said has confused anyone, that's okay. I'm confused too, because I've been left in a strange no-man's land between what I have done and what I want to do, which are no longer the same and in ways contradict. :D

People in the mod community are notorious for dumping mods midstream because of better technology that comes out, more advanced engines. Those who know me know that I'm not like-minded in this respect, but in this case, it is not the engine or technology that has gotten more advanced.. It's my mind that has.

As for the Nehahra revamp.. and especially Episode 4.. forget about Ob for now and concentrate on that.

I think it'll blow your balls off :) 
what means revamp? lol my english is to poor for this kind of words... 

1. To patch up or restore; renovate.
2. To revise or reconstruct (a manuscript, for example).
3. To vamp (a shoe) anew. 
Could It Be? 
"I think it'll blow your balls off :)"

So CZG is making more maps! 
Episode 4 Of Nehahra!? Excellent News. 
im still waiting for glassman's nehahra maps. :D

mindcrime/glassman i hereby order you to contact each other, if you havent already. :D 
I Still Think QMD Should Have Been Involved. 
You should track him down Mindcrime, he could build the sets for cutscenes. 
Too Irresistible Not To Implement 
didn't a few people (pulsar?) say they've done the architechture but not the monsters / progs / trigs for their ob maps, so whatever you're going to change in that dep...

I really can't start not wondering about what ideas you might have missed avoiding to go past but instead made hit your forehead. I wonder a lot of things though, like, if you "modernize" one graphical thing, are you forced to change the next one since it looks now obsolete etc.

Does Q3 have a part in this? 
just home for the release this year... ;) 
just hope for the release this year... ;) 
What happened to teh Glassman anyway? Anyone know what he's up to? 
I emailed Glassman and he never responded. I could try again...

bambuz: Q3 has no place in my mind... heh
I don't believe any game uses the methods
I have in mind.

When I said 'changes everything', I was speaking as a coder. There would be no radical changes in building architecture.

The bottom line on that is this: I thought of a new way of doing things and, rather like coming up with an awesome new book idea, my inclination is to pounce on it. However, I don't know that I want to commit to another future project beyond Nehahra and then Obscurus. So if Obscurus is to be my "last dance" so to speak... it will be my last chance to implement this :/

There's the rub. Will I commit to another project. Or should I let Ob take its original course.. and if the other stuff happens, it happens? It's a hard choice for me to make.

So naturally I'm teetering on it. Chewing on it till my gums bleed. So far I've only decided to decide.. not made the final decision. Which is why the door remains open..

And Ob is still precariously up in the air.

To put it even more simply: I don't know what to do :P

I can thank working on the revamp and Nehahra Ep 4 for giving me plenty of time to think about it ( and we can hope objectively). 
Changing Everything 
must be judged by how much the end result is different and better compared to the amount of work done. 
To Clarify Bambuz 
didn't a few people (pulsar?) say they've done the architechture but not the monsters / progs / trigs for their ob maps

that's for tronyn's arcane wizard project, not obscurus 
I did kinda wonder about that... Heh. 
i'm so messed about all these projects, sorry 
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