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Perhaps It Was Too Obvious... 
This really should be the name of the Steam community group:


Come on, its perfect! 
Add Me Too... 
my steam id is "metlslime" i'm pretty sure. 
Yeah, Frib Wins 
why the hell isn't that the name of the group? 
A Fine Question, My Good Man 
Never mind that though - let's just fix it NOW! 
The One Question I Have Is This: 
I am assuming everyone will accept the inevitable and rename the group. Upper case or lower case though?



It Lives! 
I created the group. I went with all lower case:


this is how it is displayed in the Q3 entities.def file, and it looks "more right" (probably because I've always seen it written like that inside Radiant).

Who wants invites? Should I just start inviting everyone inside the current terrafusion group? 
Id Go With Caps 
Looks like some sort of kick ass hip-hop ensemble 
Looks like some sort of kick ass hip-hop ensemble

which is the best argument for sticking with lower case :P 
yes please. 
Invite me plz. Thx. 
Don't We Gots 
a terrafusion group already in action?

yknow... like 2 weeks ago 
actually we could have renamed terrafusion to func_group w/o creating a mess with two groups now... sigh 
Fair enough, I guess I just assumed you would be unable to rename a group once it was created.

I'm actually looking at the admin panel now for func_group and I see no way to rename the group, so perhaps my initial assumption was right.

It hardly matters either way... there was only 20 people in the group. I sent invites out to all members of the #tf group. All they have to do is click accept.

Some minor short-term inconvenience is a small price to pay for the undeniable awesomeness of having a superior (dare I say perfect) name for the group, rather than some old throwback-bordering-on-irrelevant name that we cling to primarily out of habit.

Say what you want, names are important, damn it! 
Don't Fucking Argue With Mr Fribbles 
you're new here, aren't you? 
Vondur was waiting in the frozen darkness even as the gods made the earth.

func_group, then? Hmm, I should probably join. 
What's Your SteamID? 
Blackdog and anyone else that wants to join, just leave your SteamID here so that I (or anyone else) can send you an invite.

This stuff looks pretty nifty... I am hoping the chat feature is a decent substitute for IRC (has anyone tried it out yet?) 

No crazy electric animals in my name. 
Say what you want, names are important, damn it!

Absolutely. I mean WTF did "terrafusion" mean anyway, "banging rocks together" ? 
It Meant: 
'level design community that existed long before any of you newbie fucks ever thought of making a single brush' 
well it's certainly time for a name change then, since we 'newbie fucks' can map tossers like you into a corner. 
Terrafusion is a cool name that means something relevant to mapping, too bad the domain name is lost to the squatters.

Also, is a cool domain name that also was lost to the squatters...

Speaking of that, slipgate central was a great name, too bad blah blah blah... 
It's Not Squattered Any More 
apparently terrafusion is some hot new way of laying roads using a big machine and a lot of glue and other horse parts 
Trick Mapper Needed 
I need another mapper, Spirit is tired :D

I am planning on adding a new mode to KTX, race mode, which will probably be extended to olympics mode, a sort of olympics games for the qw engine. It will feature hieght jump, distance jump, speed race and other things.

I'd like an epic map to be created for that.
Got some ideas, but need someone to turn them into something playable :D

As usual, #ktx on irc or in the forums...
Lost Names... 
Found some in my archive...

Atlantis - Bruce W. Krueger
Disposable Heroes (The Coven)
HorrorShow - Breed New TC -
StarTrek:The Quake1 Simulation -Andrew Weilly
Black - episode, 3 maps - J.F.Gustafsson

Does this sound familiar to any of you,
or shall we schmack eachother with lost attitude,
so the real treasure-ware has died it legandary? 
Lost Names? 
not sure what your haiku is all about, but almost all of those names sound somewhat familiar. Are you trying to find a working download? 
Hail Atlantis! 
All the Gods who play in the mythological dramas
In all legends from all lands were from fair Atlantis.

My antediluvian baby, oh yeah yeah, yeah yeah yeah, 
Invitation, Eh 
Invite me then, bitches. id is BehindTheMoon (old old nick I haven't used for years).

...for Gods they were.

madfox: I've a copy of Gustafsson's "Black" but those others are unfamiliar to me. Do you have them?

deurk: I'm intrigued, please email me with what you envision for this "epic map" 
Cheers Frib 
I'm not looking for a download, I ment I had these maps in my archive.

Sorry for my bad temper, I'm choked on my paypal for many hunderds of dollars, and I can't do a thing about it! Deurk just goes cashing on my account and I can't stop his trash!
Leave this begging fox at his own quoth3, because I'm so Spirit(ed away) I'm left with NoFace.

Distrance: are you interested in a map, or does your wish contemplates something specific? 
can you re-invite me to the func_group group? I joined but then left by accident when I was trying to leave the terrafusion group. DOH! 
You fucker, a penis monster is the fourth result when google image searching my name. You bastard. 
...I'm interested in all of them except "black", which I already have :)
Especially if that Star Trek one is a "rebuild" of the Enterprise I once had but lost in an HDD crash.

If you have the wherewithall to send 'em my way, I be much obliged. 
GIS "pjw" and check out the first few images.

And then count your blessings. 
could you upload all of those maps to the Shub Hub ? 
serves you right for making my face a page-1 GIS result for "unibrow" for a year 
ZeroRadiant Development Page 
i thought that by renaming url to the group, group's name changes accordingly, and it's possible ot rename an url as u might have noticed.
of course name matters, i just wish the grouping would be more organized or something. Updated 
42 new or updated descriptions:
Thanks to the contributors! 
Happy Birthday Zwiffle! 
And Once Again 
I forgot to get you a whore

DAMN! I'm a terrible internet acquaintance.

Sorry, man. 
to everyone except Zwiffle 
But it isn't Vondur's birthday??? 
The Birthdays Of The Quake Characters 
When does the postman need to collect the four runes to deliver Shub-Niggurath's birdthday cards and presents?

Do ogres ever invite thier friends round for a barbeque to celebrate thier uncle's big day with a roast human carcass and some homebrew beer? 'Garh, that tastes like vore-piss!' "Cheers, brewed it myself."

Gotta be worth its own thread. 
I didn't find any malice-wads so I made one.

@spirit: please upload it at quaddicted/wads
and how can I remove files from theshubhub that I have uploaded? 
Send a mail to Spirit or one of the co-admins listed on the rules page. 
Thanks A Lot, Done! 
Btw I will not use RAR files anywhere in the Quaddicted filebase or the wad archive, so if you want to do me a favor use ZIP instead. The size difference is negligible and RAR is a too proprietary for my tastes. ;)

And what neg!ke said. 
Malice Stuff 
There's a which contains a Malice wad, a WC fgd and the palette. There's a link here: , maybe it can be translated into an FP url. Otherwise I also have the file if someone wants it. 
It's old enough to be in the /planetquake dump: 
Good Find 
I actually digged a bit in there, but I couldn't find it, epoch was the answer ... 
I Still Haven't Installed Bioshock 
just so you're all worried about me 
Anyone Wanna Test My Level? 
Lunaran, you could test it and tell me what you think of the lighting.

180 Monsters on normal
265 on Hard

Love to see some demos!

Ask me to mail you a copy! 
Relax and wait patiently for answers... 
Oh My Goodness 
ZQuake supports progs.dat in QuakeWorld. I just tested loading marcher and it works. I joined with 4 local players and it worked!

(probably it will crash after 50% but hey I always wanted to play this map in coop) ;) 
it's the fitz of qw. Or at least used to be, faithful and all! 
This Has To Be Shared With The World 
[19:39] <Dresk> Can you use warm lighting to entice smiles from family members at a funeral of their small boy's deathkill raping?
[19:40] <BOEUF> mebbe if you also spiked the drinks at the door 
you're Q1 Startrack is on it's way, but youre
email is as weary as Shambler's....

Sielwolf, hope you like the pack! 
I'm Baaack... 
Japan was a blast! Thank you, Bal, for the Nikko recommendation. We took day trips there and to Kamakura and had a great time. Tokyo rocked as always. Hopefully, I will have some nice pics to show you all soon.

Meanwhile, it looks like lots of good Quakeness came out while I was away. I am downloading now. Hooray!

BTW, someone please invite me to the Steam func_group community ;)

Speaking Of Steam, 
I love Portal. 
Please Map For The Quake Portal Mod Then! 
is dzip? 
A Compression Tool 
usually used for Quake demos because Quake can access the archive without it needing to be extracted.

But its a bit shit, because if the demo is too big the dzip extra compression stuff (ie. the tools geared towards compressing the demo smaller and better than standard windows zip) are disabled.

I tend to use 7zip for everything to do with Quake; its a good all-rounder that has great compression performance over both zip and dzip in several cases, although you do need to manually extract the archives to use them.

The only compression software that works better in any case I've found (a fair few equal it at times) is winrar - and thats only when using audio files. 
The Thing Is 
Some of us actually like to have our file browsing tools handle archives similar to directories, so arbitrary compressors are a pain in the ass - they throw you out of your toolset.

if you want to have people actually look at your stuff, provide a zipped/tared version. 
but with regular zip/tar, demos compress surprisingly poorly. They're just immune to the regular lzw techniques. 
But nobody wants massive downloads when a quick compression can save anywhere up to 10 minutes on upload and download, even more for dialup users.

7zip isn't too arbitrary, dzip neither - both being pretty standard q1 formats (ok 7zip isn't as well known, but its a lot better).

You can get away with standard zip of . . . tar? But every now and again it corrupts the compression or something. I've never once had a corrupt file in 7zip - touch wood.

Cue wood touching Jokes in 5 . . . 
"Arbitrary compressors" ... There's nothing arbitrary about the extremely well established and stable WinRar or 7-zip, they just provide superior compression and a wide range of possibilities to get a good compromise between speed and ratio.

Using the 20-year old zip tech is only interesting when you don't care much about compression ratio, want widest accessibility or are mainly targetting users with low computer knowledge.

And even in the latter case, you can just create a self-extracting archive, just like many installers already do. 
usually used for Quake demos because Quake can access the archive without it needing to be extracted.

I think the reason it's usually used for demos is that it was designed specifically to compress quake demos really well. Quake can't open them. If some of the custom quake engines can, that is a recent development and people have been using dzip long before that :) 
can be seen as a multimedia filter wrapped around std zip and usually offers major compression gains while still keeping the speed of zip.

I actually made a brief attempt to see if DZip could be used in conjunction with 7-zip for even more compression, but that didn't seem to yield much. The DZip filter already removes redundancy, leaving little left for any other compressor.

And several engines can load dzips directly since several years; my NehQuake, JoeQuake and any of its descendants. 
1) It wasn't a demo
2) The file is 249,729b large. doubling the size would mean about one more second of download on my line (i can't even save the file that fast), and this is the smallest dsl you can get around here.
3) you can just create a self-extracting archive and alienate experienced/other os users in turn.

i just don't see a reason to use anything else than zip on such small files besides the oss argument (7-zip?). :) 
i found this on another board:

it can take a typical shaded diffuse map (quake, quake3) and extrapolate a normal map from it with pretty good results...

on top of that, it can render out the regular greyscale map for regular bump mapping as well as make a fake ambient occlusion map based on the normals of the texture.
i've been playing around with it for a bit, and i've gotten really good results with some quake 3 textures. lower res it has a little bit more trouble, but anything over 128x128 seems to be pretty good. 
Yeah it's nice, good to use along side the photoshop normal plugin to get best results. 
I Only Post On Func While Drunk 
So sup. 
Thanks For That Necros 
Looks like a viable alternative to the Nvidia toolset. 
It Appears 
to be based on difference-of-gaussian filtration, which I often do by hand when I'm trying to pull a more accurate normal out of a diffuse. (There's nothing I hate more than seeing a brick wall normal map with a ridge at the top of every brick and a trough at the bottom because someone just fed the raw diffuse map into the nvidia plugin.) 
that still happens sometimes with this. it's far from perfect, but much better than just sticking the diffuse in there.

you can fiddle with different levels of detail to bring out (or hide) different aspects of the image. the 'very large' slider will accentuate (usually) the larger differences in height. the 'analyse for 3d' thing is hit and miss. sometimes it works, but othertimes, not so much.

you could probably get a good mix with doing the basic shape of the stuff yourself by drawing the grayscale in photoshop and then mising in the greyscale this program creates, masking out the less good areas or something. 
Different Thing 
I've heard alot of arguments about retouching normalmaps; hand painting, basicly. The constant pompous response by programmers is that it's no longer a normalmap if retouched.

I'll be trying this out monday and through the week by which time I'll be (maybe) posting some intelligent feedback.

When putting the diffuse through the juggins of normalmapping are you putting the exact same diffuse or selected layers of it? Obvious question, I think, but I've been evolving methods for a while and how others have approached it is interesting.

Especially when some twat trying to justify thier paycheck by saying everying needs diffuse, normal, specular, etc. Even though on screen its smaller than a little finger nail. 
The constant pompous response by programmers is that it's no longer a normalmap if retouched.

Artists are capable of understanding what a "normalized vector" is and how that translates to color because they're reading the normal map in the first place. Programmers don't trust artists to be smart. :) (and granted, it's usually because artists are putting 2048 textures on things like donuts)

Don't ever just feed the diffuse into the normal map filter. At the very least, pick the color channel that looks the most like a heightmap and retains the least color/dirt/lighting information. Invert it if that helps. But remember that the height map you feed the filter will not look like the diffuse map at all, and sometimes it takes a lot of work with overlays/airbrushing/dodging and burning/etc, but it's always worth it. 
The constant pompous response by programmers is that it's no longer a normalmap if retouched.

Well technically, to be a normal map all vectors have to have the same length, which can easily not be true if you retouch an RGB image. But since those vector components are pretty much passed directly into the dot3 equation, it probably doesn't matter and none of the math really requires that the vectors are all normalized as far as i know. 
But any artist with half a clue will obviously normalise his map once he's messed around with it by hand, so the map is just as valid as it was to start with really.
I pretty much do what Lun says, and I split up my diffuse alot, when I'm making the diffuse I think alot about what different layers I should keep to be able to produce the best normal map, using different settings on each layer as I transform it, and then combining them together. When I have the time I do a quick object in max or zbrush though. 
how do you normalize a normal map -- is there a plugin or filter in photoshop that does it? 
ah, I'd used that before but didn't know it could normalize an existing normalmap. 
Btw, Are 
asset creators already using that four flash camera or some laser scanner or something to make the normalmaps from real world stuff, along with the diffuse ones... specular might be harder? 
i wonder if you couldn't extract the 3d from two slighltly shifted photographs (like eyes) 
what are we, rich? 
since it costs so much to make them by hand (artist salaries), I'd imagine some equipment that speeds up the creation by many times would quickly pay itself back.

But maybe the textures are already bought from third companies and this is their money making secret. 
The use would be limited, as most of the time you just don't have what you want a texture of available as a real object. 
Interesting Bal 
Maybe that's the case. Or maybe it depends on the genre then. I remember the guys at Remedy making Max Payne going to New York and taking a huge amount of photographs of everything and a lot of that ended up in the game. (The dev showed us from where many textures had come from.)

On the other hand if you're doing some alien stuff maybe then original material is of limited use... But I even remember Jurassic Park guys using a laser 3d scanner so they could use elephant skin for the big dinosaur renders...

Everybody remembers that camera with four flash bulbs in the corners, which fire sequentially and thus a lot of depth information from the image can be gotten automatically and quite easily. Was some project, maybe at MIT? 
found the links
Seems they haven't yet discovered the application I had in mind for it. 
now that I think more of it, it might not be so good for normalmaps, since it's more for discontinuity detection, but techniques might be tunable... 
Lasers cost a lot more than humans, and they don't do 100% of the job, so you still need artists to 'clean up' the maps and make them tileable and they still have to match the diffuse maps and bla bla ...

Motion capture saves exactly 0 animator time. It works the same way. 
Heheh, look at any mud texture in almost any game. Go to Google images, type mud and there you've got the base of the texture.

Lunaran is right - an artist is always needed to modify whatever image to make it actually usable. Its the same with outsourcing, the stuff always needs a few weeks of someones time because management won't extend the contract to have it done properly.

Remedy sending some of thier devteam to take photos around New York sounds like a tax loss situation - they spunk some cash on something effectively useless to drop thier tax rating. Ok, maybe not in that case, but I gauruntee that Remedy itself didn't pay. 
Heheh, look at any mud texture in almost any game. Go to Google images, type mud and there you've got the base of the texture.

Lunaran is right - an artist is always needed to modify whatever image to make it actually usable. Its the same with outsourcing, the stuff always needs a few weeks of someones time because management won't extend the contract to have it done properly.

Remedy sending some of thier devteam to take photos around New York sounds like a tax loss situation - they spunk some cash on something effectively useless to drop thier tax rating. Ok, maybe not in that case, but I gauruntee that Remedy itself didn't pay. 
How Did You Managed The Typo's In Bambuz ^^^? 
But Surely 
cleaning up can take a lot less time than creating from the raw photo. If the team knows what to look and has trained in the local environment before, it could be quite effective in asset "stealing" I imagine.
I also imagine it's quite time consuming in creating some normalmaps by hand, people model stuff in max and create it from that then etc...

He specifically showed some floor texture for example: the photo showing the hotel corridor, then the face-on photo of the tiles, then the texture in the texture browser and finally the texture in-game (I must say that considerable vividity (?) loss in colors was observable along the process). Of course it was an old game and the world hadn't even heard of normal maps back then.
I don't know of funding, and there might have been other reasons to go there too, like to get some feel for what the city is like and get inspiration and even possibly just for fun.

Of motion capture, I assume there are still reasons for using it, like getting more realistic animations in some sense. Or maybe it's just a retarded trick used by EA for marketing reasons, to unfairly tread on small cute studios! 
I Meant 
cleaning up a normal map gotten by some hardware method would take less time than making one with an nvidia hackjob approximating tool from a picture and then tweaking and editing that ad infinitum to reach the equivalent quality... Now, of course if you're willing to do with less quality or realism, then... 
When You Are Drawing Art Assets 
the easy part is getting the basic shape of the objects down on paper (or screen :))and the more difficult part is getting the material surface of those shapes to appear realistic.

If you are using a laser to render a map of a surface of a real object, most of the work it is doing is the same thing that an artist would do in a few minutes. The subsurface levels a laser could fine tune are less important than the fidelity of the entire shape.

Also, the majority of what you would want a normal map to capture is in the shape that you created whereas the material surface you add to it creates visual noise and this produces a less precise height map. 
If youre doing a texture which is organic then you might as well get a computer to do it for you, but if you are doing a texture which is in-organic i.e. has lots of artificial-looking right angles and would have a much more precise 3D map, then you might as well do it yourself, because although it might take longer to do it manually, the end result will be better.

Or am a chipping into something I only half understand?!?! 
Where Is Our 
Companion Cube graphic? 
Here You Go 
19 Updated/new Descriptions 
Thanks for the submissions! 
Well, Okay 
if you guys insist.

field-portable 3D laser scanners are still pretty goddamned expensive for something approaching the resolution you'd need. 
I Insist It Is An Excercise In Futility 
it reminds me of the advice Dustin Hoffman got when he was using sleep deprivation and exhaustion to get a grip on his role in Marathon Man,

"Why don't you just act."

No lasers, learn to draw. 
No lasers, learn to draw.

not aimed at Lunaran, and I don't assume Bambuz can or cannot draw either. Just saying it would be far cheaper to train a half dozen people to draw assets then it would to buy a laser. 
tx for the links bamb, cool stuff 
lasers can operate in the cold vacuum of space, and artists cannot. 
But Can A Laser 
know what it is to feel love?
[cue nuclear annihilation] 
Wanted: 1 Experienced Player For Q1SP Map Reviews! 
My site needs a new map reviewer as Im really busy and Tronyn is also.

you will write reviews for the latest Q1SP releases and have them posted with screenshots at my website.

If you wish to help out please email me at:

uwfan1 [AT] 
but can a laser know what it is to feel love?

cool, now I have two things in common with lasers 
Lasers Don't Sleep. 
They wait. 
tonight we dine in lasers 
Do not look into laser with remaining eye. 
Loving the new logo :) 
nice new masthead, metl :) 
What Have You Done 
...nice job john 
As I said in site Help thread, I'd rather see a quake logo instead of a heart logo on the crate's faces.. Well, after all it's John's taste, and also John's website... 
I just forgot to say that except the heart, the crate is awesome :) 
The heart is for the warm french lovers here. :) 
now please replace all other icons and pictures on the site with the same thing please thanks 
i miss the old crate :((((( 
is crawling along at full: 92.93% Elapsed: 57h 5m

Weird mixture of excitement, anticipation and frustration. 
nice, is this some portal joke? 
i just wanted to post 
hi, welcome to func. is this your first time? 
Even at 93%, your still not that close from it being done. Just keep hanging in there. 
Don't Worry Guys... 
it's just a temporary thing, like the christmas logo. 
Finally remembered to link the CrazyBump tool at work since I haven't been texturing recently.

Very well received, thanks for the link. 
Hellgate: London 
Demo is out... go play it! 
... but read the smallprint. 
It's My Birthday! 
Quake Mission Pack I & II promo video 
thanks spirit. I like how they made sure you accept no substitutes, by blowing up the word "substitutes". I won't accept any, thanks! Far too dangerous to do so. 
im looking at spaceship designs (the realistic scifi stuff) atm for level design inspiration - why are spaceships always designed in a way that the surface is so rough and uneven, but still has some sort of hull?

this freighter seems to make some sense:

im trying to look at things this way: how would large scale invasion spaceships work and look? 
one thing that real spaceships already use and will need in the future is radiators to get rid of the waste heat that is produced. For example, when you generate electricity, there will be waste heat. And usually, the bigger the ship, the less surface area it has in relation to mass so more of the surface must be covered in radiators.

ISS has radiators protruding from the trusses, they are somewhat smaller and more "cranked" than the solar panels and have fluid flowing inside them. Shuttle has the radiators on the back side of the payload bay doors, so the doors have to be opened on orbit. 
the boiler-plate detailing is intended to imply functional, mass-production manufacture and construction that belies deeper technology beneath all those panels and stuff. fancy slick things that are all one smooth shape don't feel so real and accessible - they're more fantastic. 
you need to open up places to exchange components... Like in ships. Yet the hull that is in the water is quite smooth, for obvious reasons. The changes have to be done from the other side. For spaceships there can or then perhaps can not be reasons for that. Heat or micrometeoroid shielding comes as one that would facilitate building a big smooth continuous shield on one side and having all the greebles and hatches etc on the other side... 
Shuttle has the radiators on the back side of the payload bay doors, so the doors have to be opened on orbit.

So how do they keep the bats out? 
Or The Moths? 
why didn't anyone else notice that, I guess spaceship conceptual design has been completely wrong for forty years, good call bamz! 
Sure, But 
they wouldn't look as cool. That's why Star Wars et al >>> Star Trek. 
It All Depends On The Assumptions 
If there are magical force fields then you don't need any physical shielding on the ship. Or if the ship stays in space and doesn't go to atmospheres. Or doesn't move very fast so debris isn't a problem. One of the problems is that when you move at significant fraction of light speed, even tiny debris hits will destroy you unless you have some shielding. Probably everybody knows about Arthur C. Clarke's idea of flying a disk of ice far in front of the craft's flight path. This all is for interstellar journeys of course. Also you might want to minimize the frontal area so make the craft long and thin.

But if you assume some jump / teleportation technology, then all that doesn't matter, as it's possible that you never have to physically move that fast.

So before looking at what the spaceships would be like, you have to look at what they are used for and what technology is available.

And metl's moths: if someone had made that up, everybody would dismiss it as impossible. Who would have thought?! 
Cool Info 
great, exactly the kind of stuff i wanted =D

The scenario would be as realistic as possible in my case. 
The scenario would be as realistic as possible in my case.

That rules out artificial gravity, except as created by centrifuge. 
You don't need centrifuge if you're ship has a constant acceleration of 1g, just gotta turn the ship around at the midway point, or walk on the ceiling for the second half of the trip! 
I'm interested in this stuff so come to irc if you wanna discuss... 
if you're only accelerating at 1g, you're in for a looong ride. :P 
really? by my calculation it would take 350 days to reach the speed of light, which means you'd roughly have travelled 0.5 light-years after one year. The next year you'd travel 1.5 light-years, for a total of 2 light-years in two years, with your speed at the end being 2x the speed of light. Then you turn around, decelerate for 2 years, and it takes a total of 4 years to reach alpha centauri which is about 4 light-years away.

How long should it take? :) 
You don't need centrifuge if you're ship has a constant acceleration of 1g, just gotta turn the ship around at the midway point, or walk on the ceiling for the second half of the trip!

That only works if your journey is one way. For a ship that can dock, orbit, and manoeuvre you'd need something other than constant acceleration. 
i don't have 4y to sit around in a tin can. :( 
Years are but seconds when talking about interstellar travel. =)
Kell for a ship that can dock, orbit, and manoeuvre, you just don't bother with gravity I'd imagine. 
also, we don't know anythng about these aliens.. they might be highly intelligent bacteria, or something, so maybe they don't really NEED gravity as much as we do. 
If You Were Such An Intelligent Bacteria 
then you might be able to drop from orbit without a parachute or anything, just a pressure suit. You'd be so small you would decelerate at high altitude already and gently float to earth... or be carried around by winds.
we don't know anything about these aliens

So the spaceships are for invading aliens? If we don't know much about them, how are we supposed to know what would then be realistic?

Also: they might be highly intelligent bacteria

is itself unrealistic. Bacteria could not be intelligent in any meaningful use of the word. Intelligence isn't some vague, abstract property with which one can endow any speculative entity. Intelligence requires, by definition, the capacity to store and process vast amounts of information. Bacteria can't do that, at least not on a level challenging to us.

Very small organisms might theoretically be intelligent, but I suggest they would have to be something more than bacteria.

Anyway, how realistic do you want? Why do you need it to be that realistic? 
... can of course display intelligent behaviour if three conditions are met:

1. there is a very large number of them
2. they can exchange information in a meaningful way
3. they can process that information

A single bacterium can not be intelligent however. I'm not a biologist, so I don't know whether it's possible at all for bacteria to meet all of the above criteria. 
Necros, Cheer Up 
Once you are travelling at a significant fraction of c you won't experience the years it'll take you to travel anywhere (relative to a "stationary" observer back on Earth, that is). That makes really long term travel more attractive.

Relatively, you wouldn't age as fast. And you could probably get some great mapping done in four years in a can with nothing better to do. Unless it has a pool, of course. Or a Wii. 
I think what you're implying is that enough bacteria working together constitute a sort of brain. Maybe. It's an idea I've given some imagining, except what I had in mind was more like an invertebrate species - starfish or jellyfish or the like - rather than single-celled organisms.
Anyway. It's what megaman has in mind I was wondering. 
How About The Zombie Effect 
Nasty bacteria which cause dislikeable effects in humans such as killing them, causing their dead bodies to re-animate and develop a taste for blood? 
the kernel of the alien consciousness could be packed in the bacteria: the brain would rearrange during the short period it was dead to form a functional tool for it. Then the aliens could have fun by being zombies and attacking humans. 
i wasn't having much in mind, it was just a hint at how the aliens might not have the same requirements like we do.

Anyway, how realistic do you want? Why do you need it to be that realistic?

ATM, im just throwing thoughts around how to design the ships. of course i need to stick to the map layout, so it might change lots.

i just want to get a base of knowledge/ insight into stuff like this before i try to modify it to my needs. Know the rules!

My motivation is that plausibility is what i miss from modern games the most. 
Zombies? Pah! 
Parasites are the new virus'. 
viruses are parasites you twat 
Well, that doesn't mean realism needs to be the deciding factor. I'll use that Valve quote again, because it's so pertinent, and because I like it so much:

Realism is a tool, not a goal.

A distinction I started making back with Aliens and Star Wars is between realism and believability.

For example: the starfighters in Star Wars pitch, swoop, and bank as they travel through space. They produce fireballs when they explode. None of which is at all realistic because it breaks the laws of physics. It would never happen, yet that was an entirely appropriate way for them to behave in the movies because what Lucas was aiming for was a fantasised version of WWII dogfighting, as would have been familiar to moviegoers of the late 70s. Not just the physics of it, but the drama. But those starfighters also looked more believable than the art deco chrome pinnacles of the Flash Gordon era rocket ships. They were grubby. They needed refuelling, and repairs. So are x-wings realistic or not?

Something else all the SW ships have, and share with the even more 'realistic' Nostromo and Sulaco of the Alien movies, is linear gravity. It's a practical concession of course, because you just can't film that much without it. But it also works to keep the events in a realm easily engaged with by the viewer, in a way that the Odyssey from 2001 ( with its shot dedicated specifically to this reality ) does not because it uses centrifuge to create gravity. Linear gravity is far more believable, but it isn't remotely realistic.

And both the Nostromo and Sulaco use some sort of nuclear reaction premise to travel faster than light speed. Again, not at all realistic, yet other aspects of their designs make them closer to home than those in the SW universe. They don't embark on exciting adventures with the whoooosh BOOM of the Millenium Falcon or Enterprise. Instead, the Nostromo and Sulaco are presented as moving more like objects of industry than magic - they plough, heave, or grind their way across the interstellar distances. And even at FTL speeds, they take long and intentionally tedious passages of time to get there, necessitating cryogenics for the crew. This makes the experience far from swashbuckling, and much more like the mundane rigmarole of blue-collar work. That's something that anyone who has ever worked in a cubicle, a warehouse, a factory floor, finds incredibly believable as a human experience. But as far as the laws of physics are concerned, it's not really any more realistic than hyperspace.

How much realism do you want? And where do you want it? It may be best for your map to have relatively realistic girders and similar supporting structures, but still raise a middle finger to the laws of physics and depict linear gravity ( especially since anything else isn't going to work in the Quake engine ).

And just what is the plausibility missing from current games? Do you mean concrete and sniper rifles? I hope you're not suggesting that making a game's style more realistic automatically makes it better, cause if you are I think I shall have to call you mean things. Sarcasm may be employed.
Would you rather play D3 DM instead of TF2 CTF? If not, why not? And if so, do you think you can actually find enough people who agree with you to fill a server?

You're considering invading aliens, and even suggested the idea that they be hyper intelligent bacteria. Is that really plausible? Does it matter? It depends on what you find plausible and, more importantly, what your audience will find plausible.

On the issue of realistic spaceships, some things you might want to look at are:

Ron Cobb, the man most consciously responsible for introducing technical realism into scifi. He designed a lot of stuff for SW, Alien/s and subsequent movies. Working on Alien he described himself as "a frustrated engineer."

The Colonial Marines Technical Manual by Lee Brimmicombe-Wood

My Aliens page about the Sulaco

This is Kell, last survivor of the discussion, signing off. 
My 2 Cents 
Get a copy of this novel. It is highly entertaining and written by a NASA engineer.

Listen to Bambuz, he obviously knows a lot about this field. A collaboration between the two of you would likely be interesting and different.

For example: the starfighters in Star Wars pitch, swoop, and bank as they travel through space. They produce fireballs when they explode.

What? Current satellites have to be capable of performing pitch/roll/yaw adjustments to travel through interstellar space. 
Current satellites have to be capable of performing pitch/roll/yaw adjustments to travel through interstellar space.

You know what I mean - aeroplane manoeuvres that you get when moving against air. Satellites don't move like that. Neither do they travel through "interstellar" space, since by definition they remain orbiting earth and don't travel between stars. 
I was talking about the Resident Evil series. 
^ Of Course Satellites Can Do That 
but he means that x-wings move like spitfires, they swoop and turn like they're using differences in airpressure on the wing like a plane in air rather than a spacecraft which would have to use other means such as thrusters. He doesn't mean that nothing we've put into space can ever be pointed in a direction we want.

Very well thought out post there Kell by the way, nicely articulated the argument for believability being the goal in scifi technology. It's all about keeping the world coherent and plausible while allowing yourself to create the story you want. If you want absolute realism, you probably have to rule out humans meeting any alien races, especially humanoids that speak english as so often happens. 
guess i was replying on a page that had been open for a while.. 
I was talking about the Resident Evil series.

Actually I thought you were referring to Parasite Eve hence the capital P, but same difference.
Maybe I should have used a different smiley.

starbuck: thanks. with a name like yours you ought to know a bit about swooping spaceships yourself :P 
Yes, Believability 
is exactly what im aiming for. (that's a very relative concept, btw) As i explained earlier, im not really trying to nail down my spaceship design for the maps directly. It's like building a ww2 themed level - you try to gather as much information and background on architecture, landscape, army, etc. as possible, to get a picture of how it worked. Maybe that's a pretty good phrase for what im doing: getting a picture of how something like that could happen.

re: believability in games: Look at hl2. those giant three-legged thingies that shot at you. throw one grenade on the ground before them, and they should be gone (but they aren't in the game(?)) - nobody would design a weapon like that. I can't even think of a scenery where they would be of advantage. That kind of stuff annoys me (slightly).

Now, q3 is obviously not a realistic environment to build in, but i tend to build my maps in a way that doesn't base off the q3 scenarios. And thinking stuff through is kind of fun for me, makes the process more interesting.

Also, i thought guys like bambuz would like the discussion =)

on topic again: Im sketching around a bit after chatting with bamb and others yesterday. What about the loading bay having 'arm'-like structures, kinda like those flexible hallways they have at airports to make the planes easily boardable? Those would make getting out of the ship fast on rough ground easier. 
Listen to Bambuz, he obviously knows a lot about this field.

I think you're confusing him with Kell. 
I Think What Kell Said 
makes sense, you make decisions like that... (Though I don't find the circular gravity thing unbelievable.)

If you're not creating a whole universe that is trying to stay internally consistent, then it's easier to just concentrate on short term believability (which in itself is hard of course).

If you are going to create a whole universe then you have to spend some time thinking both the rules and also the ways you still can break the rules to just make it presentable. 
surely, the same ship that travels through space wouldn't also land during the invasion; it would stop in orbit and then release hundreds or thousands of smaller landing craft right? Just like the large, ocean-worthy troop transport ships didn't beach themselves during the invasion of normandy, they stopped at a distance from shore and launched smaller landing boats.

Regarding realism, the whole idea of aliens traveling across space to invade earth requires so many leaps of imagination it's hard to make any claims of "realism" since we have to invent biology and technology just to have the scenario happen. E.g. what is a "realistic" faster-than-light drive? There is no such thing, based on our current knowledge of physics.

So, I agree with what kell said in that you can at best pursue "believability" because realism is out the window. Like with the troop transport ships and landing crafts, and the dogfights in starwars, and the submarine battles of star trek, your best approach will be to make heavy use of analogs to human experience. 
I'm Not 
going to point out the flaw here:

Neither do they travel through "interstellar" space, since by definition they remain orbiting earth and don't travel between stars.

because it is too obvious to mention, nor the maneuver I was alluding to to buttress my point in using 'interstellar' instead of 'interplanetary' in my choice of words. However, that purpose is the flaw in my own argument because now it is also used in chasing comets. 
Please Add Me To The Func_group On Steam 
gosh you're so smart HT, so smart you don't even have to bother with a rebuttal, right?
I'm afraid it's not really obvious enough for me though, crushingly thick as I am.

You're still deliberately ignoring the perfectly valid and comprehensible point I was making: star wars starfighters don't move in a way that would be possible in space, they fly like aeroplanes. Everyone gets that.
I don't know what your problem is. 
would be a great name for a black exploitation sci-fi thriller. Think "Shaft" meets "The Andromeda Strain" 
Or Maybe "Blacteria" ... 
Oh Metlslime 
you cut-up 
Totaly Disagree 

the tie-fighter and X-Wing were not designed aerodynamics in mind. Look at those flimsy wings. The combat is realistic in terms of space movement, what you and Starbuck are seeing are distorted interpretations created by your earthling centric minds because you want to relive the glory of aces on high. That is not what happening in Star Wars at all. 
in space, when you fly forward, you can turn and point your nose to where you are coming from and still keep going where you were going... Like spacecraft and satellites do.

But X-wings don't do that. They fly swoops like WW2 airplanes.

That's what the whole fuss is about. 
The combat is realistic in terms of space movement 
I'm Having Bets Each Way 
as to which thread breaks out into a flame war first:) 
...there I am struggling with the existence of God and the Problem of Evil and Cacodaemony rears its ugly head.

DooM is everywhere ;) 
starwars 'physics'. i hate that like every space flying game has them. :\

btw, kell, did you actually design the Shirow ship on your site? it's not really clear if all 3 ships there are from movies (as the sulaco is).
if you did design it, nice one. it's a sweet silhouette. :)

i loved the look of the aliens sulaco ship when i first saw it. it struck a chord that i never found in other mainstream scifi. i like the more 'utilitarian' approach to ship design. i wish we could see that in games more often. 
The combat is realistic in terms of space movement

take the easy side of a argument. 
starwars 'physics'. i hate that like every space flying game has them. :\

As I recall, Frontier, the sequel to Elite, had very realistic physics. At least, it allowed for the facing-reverse that bambuz described.

btw, kell, did you actually design the Shirow ship on your site? it's not really clear if all 3 ships there are from movies (as the sulaco is).
if you did design it, nice one. it's a sweet silhouette. :)

Yes I did. I designed the Ohio as well, extrapolated from a very small and simple detail in one of the diagrams in the afformentioned Aliens Technical Manual.

i loved the look of the aliens sulaco ship when i first saw it. it struck a chord that i never found in other mainstream scifi.

As I say on my page, I believe it's the most influential ship design because it manages to strike such an effective balance between 'realism' and 'believability'. It just feels right somehow. 
and Bambuz/Lunaran,
what part of the word 'earthling' made you think that post was serious? 
Jesus Christ You People Exhaust Me Sometimes 
It Was The 'thl', Right? 
yeah, I thought those letters had more gravitas than the others. 
2 New Map Reviews At The Site 
Warp Spasm (by ijed)
Vertical Map Pack (by trinca/lurker/rudl/spirit) 
Cheers Underworldfan 
And Tronyn, 
Of course. 
nice reviews ;) thks 
main thanks to tronyn for those excellent reviews. now onto Travail and a few others ;) 
Err, I just read the Five Rivers Land review, and I'm confused you didn't mentioned two things:
- the maps are supposed to be a "down-make" of Doom3 Hell level...
- my effort of environment new sounds

Well, not so important in fact, just missing some precision... anyway nevermind... 
Surreal Japanese Comic... 
probably someone like bal or czg would like it: 
Ah Yes 
I've been seeing single pages of that pop up on the livejournal random image genereator lately. It was nice to see the whole thing, but not really that interesting in itself. 
It's interesting in a completely weird and sick way I guess. I like the presentation and the whole surreal vibe, but the sex and gore are just not for me. 
is sooo money! You better copyright it before anyone else catches wind ;) 
I just want to say your reviews make basically zero sense to me, in that they reflect nothing on the score you give. Positive comment 1,2,3,4,5,6 followed by "pack should have been one big map so um you get a shitty score."

Do you have an objective methodology for how to rate maps?

I (we?) really appreciate what you're trying to do, but for the amount of time people put into these projects, the least you could do is provide justified ratings and/or objective criticism. 
I'll respond first, in saying that the reviews I write are ultimately my responsibility, whereas the final scores are always up to UWFm although he rarely overrules my suggestions.

I've been thinking about this myself lately, the question is, should I "rate it for what it is" or "rate it as opposed to the best Q1SP ever." Something could be the best 100brush map ever, but what score should it recieve?

Anyway, I never really brought this up, but we never really established a scoring guideline, and I think that this is the dichotomy we should look at. Since it's for the community, some input on how things are scored, would certainly help. 
i dont give a shit about the ratings... i just like to read about the maps and reviews and pics are always interesante to read... 
... it is a question of personal taste.. I mean that even with tons of effort to be objective, you always have a personal feeling on a map, and it influences the comments you made, more or less conscienciously...

However, Underworldfan / Tronyn / and all, deserve to be thank for the review they provide each new map.

At least it is very good to have this bunch of reviews, just to have a comparison point to other maps... 
The most interesting "reviews" are the news threads here at func. At least I think so. You'll get a load of comments directly from the people, and some will like a map more than others etc, so by reading such a thread you get a good average of all the different opinions.

Of course, the somewhat simplified reviews also have their place and UWF's site has been bookmarked for a long time.

Perhaps put two scores, like

UWF says: 15
Number of votes: (...)

and just have a vote button on the review page, like with webcomics etc. A simple javascript should do it, perhaps with a captcha to remove bots.

Another possibility would be some formula that counts the votes, then divides them by some magic number so the result is always betwen 0 and 20. So an often-voted for map would be close to 20, while others would be more near 8 or so. 
Thanks Tronyn 
The effort is really appreciated, and its nice to have a solid review site so that you don�t have to find the relevant thread here at func.

As to what score to give a map, its very subjective. A mark out of twenty of gameplay vs. asthetics is a tough call to make and youre never going to be able to justify to everyone.

Personally I'd say a much more fuzzy grade system would be more worklike - like spirit uses over at Quaddicted; crap, average, nice, excellent.

And with the same detail that you already put into the reviews nobody can complain. It's obvious when a map falls into one of those catgories, but not always so obvious how a rigid score /20 (or any number) is reached, because everyone has thier own opinions. 
Keyboard Set In Spanish �rios! 
Simple Solution: 
Don't use scores at all. Like TeamShambler. 
Don't use scores at all.

I agree. I don't like numerical ratings for anything - maps, games, movies - it's inherently flawed.

Fractions and decimals end up creeping in: 3.5 stars out of 5? Why didn't you just start by scoring out of 10 then?

And nothing is ever actually rated below a certain number. Look at the fuss around PC Whatist magazine awarding Q4 something around 70% was it? But surely 70, when 100 = absolute perfection, is a reasonable achievement. But the actual index doesn't go from 0 -> 100. In practice it only really goes from about 60 -> 100, as though everything is granted more than half of a perfect score merely for loading correctly. So it becomes necessary to learn the particular preferences and biases of the reviewer over many reviews. Which is back to subjective preference anyway.

In short: if you can't say it with words, you're never going to be able to say it with numbers. And if you can say it with words, you don't need numbers. 
It all depends on what your goal is. For the Quaddicted Archive it is crucial to rate the maps to weed out the crap and have a nice list of play worthy maps. If a map is average, nice or excellent to the "actually playing player" is a different question of course but that's a thing you cannot grasp in a detailed text-review either. 
My 66c 
quaddicted has good ratings - crap/poor/average/nice/excellent

Not very flexible, but its enough. And how good the 'nice' map is everyone decides for himself.

I would add another 'good' gradation though, cause 'average' is akin to mediocre 
Yeah, Well 
crap/poor/average/nice/excellent sure seems similar to a 5 star rating system. 
What Was 
The best map ever made for Quake/Quoth/whatever, all in? 
ha ha just kidding that one sucks 
Who Would Like To Say? 
Marcher fortress was F.A.T. Some of WARPSPASM maps are FF.AA.TT. Who/what else? 
depend of tastes... there are a lot of then... and one of then is...

e1m1rmx is also cool... oh wel they are quit few... 
That's czg!

Seriously though, I don't think there is "the best" map.

Is "Average" sounding like something not worth playing? I thought of it as "decent map you will have fun playing while it has some minor flaws (making it not Nice/Excellent)". 
Best quake map is czghate.bsp, which he hasn't released yet cause he hates us all. =( 
For Fucks Sake CZG . . . 
Release it, pretty please? (+cherry on top) 
Think I'll play through Terra Thing again . . . 
No, it's not done and it's breaking too many limits for my liking. Will not finish. 
Will Not - Never? 
Consined to a scraps folder? 
Will not? do we all have to make a trip to .se and kick your fat assuntill you finish map?
:p if we have to... 
"Average" tends to mean "either above or below the true average value of all maps, but probably below because most people want to sell their shit to me."

I suggest you replace it with "good." 
I doubt there is such a map. CZG has released many unfinished maps in the past, so why is this one being concealed?

Until I see some screenshots, I believe this map is nothing more than a hoax.

I also believe that the map name "czghate" means that czg hates everyone, and taunts them with a unfinished, unseen map. Just my opinion. 
"Average" tends to mean "either above or below the true average value of all maps
Indeed. Some average maps are 'OK', others are merely acceptable (both of which is often indicated). 'Good' maps are usually rated "nice". 
Method`s Making Painted Surface Tutorial 
"I have recently figured out how to make a realistic painted surface on non painted surfaces such as wood, metal and concrete. Here is a preview of what we are going to do:" 
Useful Stuff . . . 
I'll be reading through Method's tutorials to see his take on stuff; I didn't check his site properly when he posted screenshots before. 
Re: Average 
What neg!ke said. I will keep it like it is. 
Ratings Suck. 
But CZG sucks more. Take your pick. 
Many people on IRC have played czghate, me included, and it rocks hard.

Sorry czg. =(
Oh and,
If Im Not Allowed To Play It 
then it cant be the best map ever made!

In order for a map to count as the best map ever made it has to be one that people can physically play.

I know the matter of 'the best map ever made' is a matter of opinion, but Im curious as to what the contenders are / might be.

czg - you should release the map. People will complain if it breaks certain engine limits, but they're just silly, cause Quake came out 11 years ago, and nobody cares about the parameters of a game engine originally designed to run on a 486 75. Most people will have in excess of 1Ghz + 512 megs/ram (rather than 8), and I know that the increase in speed is not proportional in game because high content maps isnt what quake was originally designed for, but with modern ports availiable people should just shut up and shoot stuff!!! 
No But Seriously 
It sucks. Bal is just finding other ways to annoy me besides killing me in TF2. 
Well what's your 'best ever quake map' then? (I dont necessarily mean one that you made - although it could be) 
Post 13000 
Who Cares 
Note The Q3 Icon In His Post... 
Im Searching For 
megaman: i want videos showing someone play racing games, similar to speedruns
megaman: but they don't necessarily need to be speedruns, they just need to be as smooth as possible
megaman: so, not a lot of crashes or retries or something like that
megaman: does anyone have an idea where to find such films?
megaman: the longer the better
megaman: for example a 500 miles nascar game, or something like that
megaman: pretty important that it's from a player perspective though 
Best SP Quake Map(s) 
APSP by Andrew 'than' Palmer
best SP quake map for the looks, visual desigs and layout.
CZG`s Nehara maps were very atmopspheric with some great designs too.

for gamplay I dont know really
some damaul`s, mexx and prodigy_SE4 had more interesting gameplay than most of the past `2000 maps (that just have lots of combat with gazzilion of monsters as the only gameplay trick)
Ofcourse bigger=better. more monsters, larger maps... break the engine limits and you`v got an impressive map 
uhm maybe you can just take a game that supports replays, get 'demos' for it and fraps the video yourself? something like 'GT legends' or GTR

there are vids on youtube, but they are low quality oc 
Just Played APSP 
Hmmm - very good! Good fun, played on normal died twice, really liked the demons-coming-through-slipgate-atcha bit...

(should've been working though) 
Best Maps . . . 
Well, my favourites are:

Insomnia, Castle of Koohoo, Concentric Devastation, Contract Revoked, Zerstorer and Rapture. There's alot of others that could go in the list but they're the ones that spring to mind. 
New Portfolio 
This is my new portfolio since I'm once again looking for work. I'd love some feedback about it -- the presentation, writing, organization, length, etc. 
Now I know who you are!

The Deadliest Mapper Alive! 
And some deadly nice screenshots too. Looks good and the given information seems appropriate for a game design portfolio, I guess. You could have also mentioned the programs you've made so far (supporting the coding skills bit), e.g. Fitzquake, and that one tool that turns bad maps into good ones. Or hasn't that been done yet? 
This was a return to old-school Quake single-player gameplay as well, with a lot of big, surly monsters to soak up the bullets, good opportunities for exploration, and some satisfying secret rooms to discover.

I guess "buckshot" is made of bullets, but really man, nails! rockets! 
Not Alot To Say 
Looks very solid and professional. Why change the format to more conservative for the resume? I can understand you wanting it to be easy to read etc. but I doubt any studio head would be bothered if you included a white version as a link from the same-format page as the others; to download and print, that is. 
One Thing 
The type you set your name in really doesn't fit the eastern-fighting movie genre, imho.

The first ancient rome screenshots i didn't really like. they don't looko thta nice, and are taken at weird angles.

Also, there's a lot of stuff i've never heard of - i think you should provide more shipping dates, otherwise someone could get the impression that none of those projects shipped.

provide a link to the paper, if it's availbale somewhere, or even post a citeseer link or soemthing like that

images need more space above and less at the bottom - or the other way round with the paragraphs - so it's clear the paragraph is for the top image, not the bottom one looks like an unfinished area to me, also it just now came to me it was water that filled most of the picture, looks a lot like tar.

why two shots of the same area in sahara?

the cube shots might not be worth showing at all, or maybe put them somewhere at the bottom

For textures, I used the excellent "Q2Power" set by Lunaran. isn't really necessary to mention, and shifts the focus away a lot from your work

This was originally a project to learn the new features of the Quake 3 tech, something long-since accomplished, but it would be nice to finish it up as a treat for the Quake 3 loyalists. outdated and unnecessary? you're not noob ;) and look washed out like taken with a gl engine and no palette modification.

i like that your resume is so serious - but nothing connects it with the design of the previous pages. you need a link of some sort.

other than that, nice stuff! 
Metl "John Fitz" Slime 
The Man Who Designed Rome.

Good stuff.

I'd imagine the guys browsing it would possibly be very interested in that... some high level shots showing the city sprawl? I think the existing Rome Rising shots are pretty good although the character in the first shot looks cartoony, but that's not what people should be interested in anyway, and it looks barren if there's nothing on the foreground so I guess it's ok... 
Nice Piece On The Reviews And Score Issue 
Very Simple Tutorial For 
Thanks For Feedback... 
megaman, your screenshot criticisms are noted... i might be able to improve some of them. For Rome shots, you mean the very first two? For Antediluvian shots, these are merely gamma corrected just like all of my quake1/2/3 shots. Perhaps I can increase the color vividness or contrast on them? But I don't want to do too much post-processing otherwise it's not really showing what the levels look like. I could delete the Sahara section completely since the game never shipped... Cube shots aren't very impressive but the project seems worth mentioning, so I'll think about it.

I do have a link to that paper, didn't you notice the red text with the underline?

Also the date next to every game that shipped IS the ship date... unless you want a month and day as well?

Bambuz: the idea of showing the city sprawl is interesting, though I don't have access to the game servers from home. I might be able to dig up something, though.

negike: interesting idea, but it's hard to show screenshots of coding projects.

inertia: i'm being poetic.

ijed: interesting point, I might do that. 
WOW. Double-subtraction evil. in a pdf file. in a 7z

Are you the Devil himself? 
Watching it again I realised how very clueless I am about "what text belongs to which pics, the pics above or the pics below". Maybe add some discreet arrows aside the text that point to the image row (eg a dark red used triangle on the left side of the text could look nice) or add horizontal breaks (line or something) that divide the text&images into corresponding groups. 
The cube stuff is definitely worth mentioning. It shows you have the passion and ambition to learn new tools and techniques, and to contribute your time and effort to a project despite the very limited audience and essentially non-existent rewards (I mean material rewards of course, ignoring personal satisfaction and community kudos :)

I'd hire you in an instant based on the intro page alone (not to mention the impressive portfolio)... of course, my company couldn't afford you and you wouldn't want to work there anyway, but that's beside the point! 
At first I didn't see the original rubicon shot,
A bigger picture would be better for one of the most impressive quake maps. 
I don't get confused by the screenshots / text. They don't look like bad screenshots to me, either. 
those were just my first impressions.

It's the first six rome shots, really - the city shots. I can't really tell what's weird about the shots though, maybe it's the high camera pov. that tends to make things look small and cartoony

I could delete the Sahara section completely since the game never shipped
hm, i think it's an interesting game - shows that you're versatile. just need one other area to show (or drop the second screen)

didn't you notice the red text with the underline?
No, i didn't. don't ask me why

Also the date next to every game that shipped IS the ship date
well, there's date ranges, too, aren't there? I thought those dates show the production time. I'd really mention the shipping date agani, maybe with the month 

i think the problem is, that the light texture is almost white, but the surrounding lighting looks very weak. this looks so awesome btw :) 
Quake Timeline 
I finally found some time and ressources to take care of an idea I had a while ago, the Quake Timeline:

The Quake Timeline shows important events - and probably a lot of unimportant ones - from the history of the best game ever created: Quake.

All these events are presented in a timeline which you can scroll along all the way from the good old days up until today. If there�s an event missing - and there are lots of events missing as I only added a couple of map releases yet - you can easily add it yourself.

Feel free to add events to the timeline, the more the merrier! If you run into any problems or have ideas on how to enhance the timeline (Further categories, different style, etc.) please leave a comment or send me a mail. This is just the first version I put up real quick and there definatly is a lot of room for improvements. 
I added WarpSpasm. The timeline looks nicely done, good work.

Like the name as well. 
make a separate page for it (if that's wordpress), it sucks in that narrow blog column. 
I plan on doing that.

Embedding it this way was the quickest and easiest way to do it. Before I spent too much time on it I want to know if anyone is even remotely interested in something like this. 
Sorry For Being 
So demanding in tone. After all it's a free service. :) And you linked to screenshots etc. 
sorry for mixing threads and subjects. Anyway. 
Hey Guys 
in response to the score questions

[1] If you dont like the "theory" of scoring, simply ignore the score and read the review.

[2] Some people like scores, myself included. It provides a quick, easy way to rate and compare maps. I have been scoring map reviews this way for 5 years, and im not planning on changing it anytime soon. :P 
i like to read the reviews... i dont take much atencion to scores :) 
Underworldfan The Question Is 
what is your "theory"?
"this way" - what way?
Could you please explain how exactly you calculate the score and what it means
(what #s stand for bad/mediocre/good/excellent/) 
2 New Map Reviews Posted At My Site: 
Breakfast at Twilight (by Hrimfaxi)
Wicked Base (by trinca) 
A Scores section explaining briefly the scoring was already on my FAQ page but i have updated it to include a breakdown of what the various scores roughly mean:

Why do you score the reviews out of 20? How do you arrive at the scores?

In my opinion, there are two basic elements to any FPS map, one element is GAMEPLAY, the other is ARCHITECTURE & DESIGN. For these two elements i mark each out of 10, hence the total score is out of 2*10 = 20. If a map gets 19/20 or above it is a truly exceptional map and gets a gold medal of recommendation.

Here is an approximate breakdown of what the scores mean:
awful/poor: 1-10
ok/average: 11-14
good: 15-16
very good: 17-18
exceptional: 19
perfect: 20

let the arguing commence. ;) 
The whole point is that we don't know what the hell your standards are on "gameplay" and "architecture & design," except by looking at maps you've already reviewed and poring through what you've said in each review.

I'd like to see you write something for new mappers about how to get a 20/20. 
Scores Again 
I thought Marcher was 20/20, the best Q1SP yet made in my opinion, but UWF later downgraded it to 19/20 (presumably because there's still some theoretical room for improvement). But if Marcher isn't perfect, I dunno what is. Also, lol, I thought Masque should have been an 18 or 19, but that's why I don't review my own stuff.

To be honest my scores are pretty vague. I gave Wicked Base a 17/20 initially, but looking back UWF downgrading its score is reasonable, as I also gave Lunaran's last a 17, which is (no offence to good friend Trinca) a plainly superior map, which I should have given an 18 at least.

It's hard to account for bias as well. I actually wanted to give Hrimfaxi's frostbite a 19 or 20/20.

It's hard to keep in mind all the stuff I've scored previously when trying to score something at present. Never the less, UWF has a better grasp on the score system than I do, and I agree with him that there is a use for a player who just wants to know if a map is so-so (under 15), worth downloading (16+), or DEMANDS TO BE PLAYED (18+).

I think the solution is either ignore the scores, or just view them as a general guide for the casual player. 
A General Misguide Rather 
As many scores seem pretty arbitrary. Compare recent reviews with older ones.

Maybe it would be more helpful to seperate the two elements, so scores read like "architecture: 8/10", "gameplay: 6/10", giving reader a clearer idea how the final score was conceived. 
All of the above debate demonstrates precisely why reviews should not have scores. You guys are providing a very convincing argument against using a scoring system at all.

At the very least, we all should accept the plainly obvious truth - that review scores are perhaps useful as a vague guide (at best), they're always going to be arbitrary to some extent, and the only way to get the important info is to read the damn review!

Something to ponder though... is it a coincidence that neither of the top Quake review sites (Ramshackle and TEAMShambler) had a scoring system? Probably not. :) 
Congratulations With The 5 Years Underworldfan! 
And thank you for the review to you and Tronyn. 
Maybe Not A Coincidence 
But more likely because Shambler has never been good with numbers.

I think Frib sums it well.
and the only way to get the important info is to read the damn review!

Read the damn review! 
Now Wait A Minute... 
if the final score is combined from the 2 numbers than 18 is an excellent map. 9+9 for looks/play - nearly perfect(or 10+8?)
and 14 could be decent (7+7)...or maybe its 9+5? 6+8? 10+4? 4+10... uhm OK Im really lost

"General Misguide" indeed

PS: I love this score

Overall Vertical Map Pack: 15.5/20
(thats for 4 varied maps from DIFFERENT authors) 
yeee congtz for 5 years underworldfan and thks for the reviews!

if my english were better i�m sure i whould help you out with reviews... but you guys now my English skills :)

I'd say everyone here is very grateful for the work you're doing, UWF + Tronyn. You're the only review site left, basicly.

As to the scores . . . do whatever the hell you want; it's your party. I was very happy to get an 18 for that pack I made, but in retrospect, to me at least, the number is distracting from the review. 
Just checking the updated site - with screenshots on the main page it's better, thanks :)

And happy anniversary! 
Something to ponder though... is it a coincidence that neither of the top Quake review sites (Ramshackle and TEAMShambler) had a scoring system?

Well, of the original "top Quake review sites" (SPQ Level Heaven, Crash's Quake Pages, Talon's Strike) two of them had numeric scores and one didn't. (SPQ heaven just said "if it's on this site, it's worth downloading" kind of like shambler did.) 
isn't it weird that "newcomer" websites like UWF and func are now 5 years old, which means they have been around for half of the entire history of the quake community? 
Talon's Strike 
Yes, but Talon's Strike gave every level over 90 points out of 100, with a two sentence review. It was barely an archive of maps.

I visited that site religiously. 
Note that I can't remember the exact scoring system Talon used. Feel free to correct me. 
most maps recieved between 80 and 95, though I think it's partly because he didn't include any maps that really sucked. So it was still somewhat inflated (if he scored all maps in existence the range would probably be like 50-95.) 
A fine point, and well made! It would have been more appropriate to say that the sites I mentioned were my favourite sites, rather than arrogantly assuming that this automatically means they must be regarded as the best sites.

I guess everything has to be considered in context, but it is impossible to predict what might be coming up in the future. It's like map reviews - give something a 10 today, something better comes along tomorrow... and then everyone is complaining about the relative scoring of the maps. :D

Also, I just noticed that this post creation dialogue has a rather long undo queue... surprising, and very nice. 
I actually agree that TEAMShambler was the best SPQ site during the time it operated. I'm actually just making the point that there was an earlier era where there were different sites in operation. 
D2SP: The City Of The Damned - Apocalypse
Dark GZDoom map with unusual gameplay by Tormentor667 (so it's probably nice but hard). 
Thank You Metl & Frib 
Kind comments. Even if I agree with them ;).

Lack of scoring wasn't fundamental to TEAMShambler's success. Timing, dedication and dilligence were.

I think scoring is fine in theory but doesn't work in practise because firstly you're assigning something fixed to what are at least partially artistic creations and mutually incomparable let alone unscorable, and secondly the system breaks down after a while because the system relies on comparison but comparability changes over time.

Not that I have any real complaints with UWF using scores, if he thinks it helps. 
I think UWF review comments are the thing to take care of: what's in the map is so far what is intersting to know isn't it ?
The scores highlight UWF personal feeling of the map, even if the scoring / ranking process has some rules to respect. At least it gives a comparison point between several maps... 
Where's The Music? (quake 2) 
i bought the quake4 special edition since its at the same price as the normal version (why not have the normal cheaper? gah?).

anyway, playing quake2 w/ expansions and because they all came on a dvd, there is nom usic! and its pretty boring without it! i have the quake2 cd from when it came out, but man, is there a place where i can download the tracks for both expansion packs?

btw, the reckoning is pretty cool so far :) 
Dunno Where It Is 
Quake music would be nice too! I downloaded my copy of Quake straight from ID's website and that came with no music!! Shame cause the original quake music rocked!!! I could burn a disk if I could download the tracks ;) 
Quake1 Music Is Everywhere... 
at least, i remember seeing torrents with the mp3s whenever i looked for some live nin songs :)

so if you know how to get songs that way (who doesnt?), then it wouldn't be so hard to find somebody that has them.
It's also available in mp3 at some blog for ages now, try google. 
What About... 
...the ones for the quake2 expansion packs? i dont think i like those links :( 
Interesting... I saw this SP release called 'badpak' at quaddicted and thought I'd check it out. The rating was 'excellent' for an unfinished map series with some only partially complete resources. "How odd", I mused.

Intrigued, I downloaded it and for sure, if you can suspend dislike for the partially complete heavy/flying/sng/enforcer, this really is an excellent piece of work. Some minor annoyance at things like lightning models not lining up with the guns end fades rapidly in the face of great brushwork and immersive combat.

No "bad" pak this one :) 
Teamshambler Had That 
not for review but linked to it from memory. Cant remember the name of the mapper but it was one of spawny' friends?? 
It Was...

Ironhammer. As you say, one of Nano's spanish crew. 
There Is Also 
an unofficial fifth map Ih1m5, as well as a few others which use Badpak's base monsters.
I am pretty speechless.
Normally something like this would be called a security breach or exploit.

"hey, we got that exploit in our jpeg loader, so don't watch custom jpegs"

Well, obviously an attempt to make gamers BUY addon things instead of STEALING custom made stuff from the internet, is it? 
. . . 
Unsolicited Advice makes up a huge fraction of what annoys me in this world.

Even an application pop up window that states a simple: Would you like to go on line to find an application to open this file(Recommended)? makes me want to strangle the programmer who dared to put advisory material in an ap I'm using. 
You shouldn't get so angry over stuff. 
you build a huge ass map that takes forever to get from one end to the other and now you think you're God and you can tell me what to do -- though, I guess if you managed to encapsulate infinity inside of a map just like I just said you did, you really would be God, so on that pretext, I'll let that advisory comment pass. 
I forgot to pay my BT phone bill and my broadband service has been rudely disconnected. Every website redirects to a nasty message from BT...apart from this one.

Cheers metl, you just pwned BT.

In the meantime, can someone post transcripts of YouTube Blackadder episodes, describe amusing cat image macros, draw (ascii) porn, etc. etc.?

Being without internet is a new and scary concept for me and I'm not sure I like it :{ 
For Kinn

A naked man is bending forward, viewed from behind. Both his hands are in his anus, stretching the rectum wide open. His genitals are visible.


Two girls are making out.
Close up of one girl's ass, with other girl holding a cup under it.
Girl poops. A lot. Into the glass.
Both girls proceed to eat and lick the poop.
Girls smear poop all over themselves and vomit onto eachother and into eachother's mouths.
Fade to black. 

But ascii porn creation escapes me. 
Thanks Czg. 
Maybe it is time to consider a more extended break from internet activity. 
Does Anybody Know 
why several of the hosted PQ sites flicker on and off from day to day, e.g. TeamShambler or SPQ Level Heaven?

Sometimes it helps flushing the DNS cache, sometimes not. 
Rectums, Girl Poop, Glasses, Bottles, Drugs . . . 
America... what happened to you? 
Well, I 
joined a gym, took a few power yoga classes to realign my spine, canceled my NYT subscription, invested the savings in a yak farm outside of Aspen, raked in a bit of change, took a cruise around the Great Lakes where I met the daughter of Presbyterian minister who introduced me to crack . . .

headthamps story gave ears to my eyes, and tears to the ever walking shadows of the moon, without them we would be just another mindless headthump walking through the heroin fueled lies of the world through out the living eyes of the universe 
Stick To Pot 
Poor Kinn. 
That is all. 
That Deserves A Second 
poor Kinn, I just went through a similar experience for the last three weeks, where after an hour or so of running it, my system would crap out in a blue screen of death. It put a cramp in my 'productivity'(er, TF). I had to replace the fan and my video card. Put that time to good use. Build a Bastion II. 
He He 
Put that time to good use. Build a Bastion II.

A screed of Unsolicited Advice??, or a spirit building pick me upper!? 
Try using a different DNS server. Maybe they are stupid and just route new DNS requests to their page. Try and (that's 
Does Any Of You Veterans Know... 
if there is a program that can create SiN pak files?

No, it can't load Quake2 pak files, I checked (they also look different in a hex editor...)

Apparently it is IMPOSSIBLE to create a SiN pak file (unless you work at Ritual.)

(I'm not yet ready to accept that.) 
Ehhh.... Disregard That 
I found out.

It's very late so I'm slow thinking. Anyway, for the record... how to create a (real) SiN pakfile:

The program is called makepak.exe (duh) and is part of the sintools (sined etc.)

Stupidly, the documentation looks as if you can only extract them with that app; luckily, being a Linux user, I could (very slowly because very tired) make some sort of connection between "pak file" and "script file" and so I finally can use that thing.

You have to create a script that includes the pak's name and all the stuff you want in it. Gosh.

The documentation looks like this:

Makepak 1.0 copyright (c) 1998 Ritual Entertainment
makepak -u -d <script file> [specific file]
u - unpack into the current directory, script file is the pak name
d - dump out the pak files contents, script file is the pak name

If a specific file is specified then only those files matching that will be dumped

Valid Script Commands:
name <name of pak>
include <wild card name>
exclude <wild card name>
includerecursive <wild card name>
excluderecursive <wild card name>

"Script file is the pak name." Yay for Ritual.

*bangs head against wall* 
I'm going to smash my fax machine in a minute!!!

Why do we even still have fax machines?!?!

And why do I have the shittiest fax machine ever created. 
Noone Has A Fax Machine 
You're the odd one out here. 
Oblivion Is Retarded 
Tarquin and Gerald (two Oblivion players) are walking down the road, when Tarquin turns to gerald and says:


- "Yes?"

"Gerald - if I can guess how many pigs you have in that sack on your back, can I have one of them?"

To which Gerald replies:

"Tarquin - If you can guess how many pigs I've got in this sack on my back, you can have the both of them!!"

So Tarquin says

What The Fuck Is Going On Here 
The Fax Is Broken 
smashed into oblivion 
Silly Czg 
Oblivion owns and you know it.

I have internet back btw, I was only offline for a day.

Headthump, re: Bastion II - there will come a day when I will be free to pursue these sorts of things, able to realise these crawling visions of madness that were hinted at in my previous offerings - but today is not that day; Alas today, cynical of the industry, I am bound merely to create within the confines of commercial games development, although within that confine I am slowly mustering power and may one day erupt from my shackles and explode forth in a triumphant display of crimson-flecked glory. 
Looking For 
the SinEd source code. It was released by Ritual, but all links on the net are broken.

The file name should be

Anybody have it? (probably hopeless...) 
I have some questions for you, but your email seems to be broken :( I'll retry tomorrow.... 
crimson-flecked glory 
I just sent you an alternative address that might work better. 
Thanks !... and you have email ;) 
Nothing Yet 
Are you sure you sent to the address I sent you and not just replied to the email? 
I effectively made this stupid mistake: I just resent it some secons ago :P
Sorry :D 
1 New Map Review At My Site 
As I've Said Before 
Your efforts are very much appreciated.

Keep up the good work. 
That review is fucking bollocks and furthermore Travail is at least a 16.51.

Seriously though, I think you really underrated these maps. 
Harsh Angled Edge 16/20
Bile Plant 17/20
Sealed City 19/20
Nightmare Tangents 16/20
The Final Drop 16/20

Overall Warp Spasm: 18/20

(16+17+19+16+16)/5 = 16.8 
I thought we were over this "issue" like 50 posts ago? 
Well Clearly Its Not An Average 
and theres points in discretion about overall cohesiveness and experience. 
69 fresh map descriptions at Quaddicted. :)
Thanks to all contributors! 
Did you forget neg!ke's qte2m5/6 or do you always skip secret maps?

In any case, the pack is 14 SP-maps + start map and 4 DM maps.

Anyway, thanks for the continued work! 
I noticed warp got a higer mark than it's average as well, but I'm not complaining.

I reckon the words say more than the numbers anyway - ? 
Death match map made in four weeks, inspired by playing on the Flanders Europe netquake server. Screenshots and link: 
Cant Help But Post 
<spdmaps> ORL why dont you light it properly and add some details
<czgTF2MAPPER> spdmaps: because it's dm and noone cares
<ORL> The map was approved by elite old school Quakers, and they like it. So as far as I can tell, nothing is wrong with it. Enjoy it or don't.
<spdmaps> ORL its not approved by the oldschool quake mappers
<spdmaps> if it plays well its 50% of the deal
<spdmaps> but it looks like half-arsed speedmap
<ORL> Its not for the mappers, its for death match.
<ORL> You can complain about it all you want, I'm not changing it.
<spdmaps> Im not complaining
<spdmaps> you realsed it to the public - you get reaction
<ORL> And my reaction is, if you don't like it, don't play it. 
Damn Fucking Right, ORL 
spds likes to think hes the king of all mappers.

<ORL> And my reaction is, if you don't like it, don't play it.
<spdmaps> ofcouse I wont cause I could make a better map in half-hour time

I didn't make this map for the QW mapping community, I made it for the Netquake community. I just thought I'd share it so maybe you could enjoy it, but apparently if its not what you want it to be, you bash it.

So go ahead and hate the map all you want, I'm not gonna lose any sleep at night over it just cause you don't like the way it looks. As far as I'm concerned, its gonna get plenty of gameplay in netquake, and I'll be glad it wont be any of you guys playing it.

So that's that. 
And For The Record 
I'm not saying that everyone on TF and the func is really anal about maps, some people I do admire here. Trinca, ijed, aguiRe, Preach, Spirit, JPL, biff, RickyT23, rudl and many others. But unfortunately, there are just some people who have to act like assholes and try to bring down other people. Ohh well, its not my problem if your daddy beat you as a little kid. 
yeah that was an overreaction to your arrogant replies to my suggestions

never mind the fact that your map DOES look like a poor speedmap

we all here put some effort to make maps that look good, but you arent willing to make any improvements
there is a certain level of acceptable quality and your map is definitely below it agree or not

if you want people to enjoy your maps - put some effort into them 
Many people do enjoy my maps. And this one is gonna get more game play than any of yours, I can tell you that.

You started this whole ordeal by saying "this map has poor lighting and needs details" without even so much as loading it into Quake and saying it was a good effort, whether you liked it or not.

And its a DM map, where enormous detail doesn't matter. 
i like your SP ORL ;) but this DM is way to open... -:| i dont think it will work for dm for sure... 
Loaded up 24 Omicrons on this map and they seemed to enjoy it, they were all over the map in a few seconds ...

But it is a bit big and open for DM, I can imagine fps suffers on slower machines. 
I just thought I'd share it so maybe you could enjoy it, but apparently if its not what you want it to be, you bash it.

People tend to express criticism, when they try something that has potential, but in the end fails (according to their standards, of course).

By releasing something, you decide to accept & respect the standards of the viewer and you shouldn't complain if you receive feedback you don't agree with.

That said, i think i very much understand you, but at the same time i agree with spds - you have to be above a certain line of visual quality to be worth playing.

In any case, don't get angry at spds because he tried to criticise your map. Also, if you dare to enter the nice, shiny world of #tf, you should be prepared to get some rougher comments. (spds tone was quite common for tf and wouldn't upset me at all) 
I think most everyone can see both sides of this argument. The best criticism is honest, so complaining needlessly or, conversely hyping a map are both counter to a good map being made.

I agree with spd's that the lighting looks flat in the screenshot, I agree with ORL that it's up to him weather or not it's as a problem worth fixing.

The bottom line is that the only way someone can convince me to do something to a map I don't want to do is with money. 
what is it? a more futuristic type of steampunk? or is it even a real style? 
I Dont Know Necros 
but i hope your making a Q1SP map in that style. ;) 
I Wish :( 
i haven't even had the chance to try out portal mapping yet. :S

i've been doing a shit-ton of prerendered stuff lately, and i really want to do some realtime 3d stuff again soon. 
fps dropping as low as 30 are not acceptable. The terrain is not "skipped". Very r_speeds-wasting design/"details". Boring texturing and flat lighting (lighting is better than the screenshots though). No txt file.

No need to comment back, I just leave criticism where I feel the need for. ;) 
Well Orl 
I wouldnt like to say about this map, I bet its fun with a few bots, (or real people) - people are gonna criticise it, but I'm sure you expected that, but I notice you didnt put it as a news thread, just put it on General Abuse so that if folks are interested its there. I say fair play to ya!!

Gameplay looks like it'd be good, lots of high up plats and rocketjumping I'd imagine!

Its easy to get narc'd when people criticise your map. I can handle most critiscism, its when people sound like thay have taken your efforts PERSONALLY offensive, thats when I'd blow it!! :) 
Quake Ogre And Friends 
Quake Ogre Fan Art:

(click the dot for others like Doom Imp or Unreal Skaarj ... or Nali girl) 
Perhaps I'm just getting tired of most people always giving my work negative reviews, so I figured I can't stands no more.

This map was released a week ago on one server, for heavy playtesting. At least 6 people told me exactly what they wanted in the map. So I added those things, and this is the result. They were all very happy with it, no complaints. The map has already gotten much gameplay in the short time its been released, and it will get more.

Lighting and details aren't important in a death match map, its the layout and design.

Perhaps I was a bit out of line that day on #TF, but it is just a map after all. 
I guess it's entirely subjective. I mean, I think lighting and detail is very important in a DM level with the caveat that it can't get in the way of the game play. If play is hindered by these things then it's bad but a competent level designer should be able to avoid that problem.

The id DM maps were heavily played and loved and they were, at the same time, nicely lit.

I know the hardcore DM'ers don't care about how a map looks but to me Quake has always been as much about the atmosphere as anything else. Just my 2 cents... 
wow orl you are so full of shit 
the quake mp community is eating itself apart over most ppl thinking they�re playing cs

the quake mapping community is destroying itself with childish "my map is betta then urs" bullshit

glad to be here ;) 
I'm Not Hungry 
This map was released a week ago on one server, for heavy playtesting. At least 6 people�

Next time don't be so proud of something that completely goes without saying for a good mapper. 
Well I never said I was proud of the map, or anything regarding it was the best ever. Its clearly not. All I'm saying is whats done is done, the map is done. I'm done with it.

I kind of wasn't expecting any critique on it. If I was I would have posted it in the beta and screenshots section. It was just a "here ya go, enjoy it or not" kind of thing. 
Handbags At The Ready Ladies... 
Just Had A Look... 
Apart from the texturing being as bland as a peeled scrote and the lighting sucking monkey spincter and the scale being more like a UT2K3 map rather than a Quake map, I quite like it. The layout looks good for fast gameplay, plenty of tricks possible, seems fairly balanced for weapons, the theme ain't bad, it's not an arbitrary arena and has a strong visual hook with the building front and the ruined bridges and flaming trees are cool.

So there. 
I never played UT2K3 so I don't know about the scale in that. I designed the map more for a 4 or more free for all. I didn't focus to much on texturing and lighting, mostly the brushwork.

But so far no one has complained about any of the new textures in the map which were done by me, apart from the orange brick. So I guess that's an improvement. 
The map could have been much better looking with some better lighting and a few different textures.

Just sayin.
(I played QW but still care about looks.)

It's good that people make DM maps. What mappers should realize that they actually should be more similar to good SP maps than what is generally thought. I've ranted about this for the last 2 years. 
I Agree 
While there's a definite advantage to small, cramped maps for fastpaced DM, and setpieces can be kind of awkward for fast movement/clipping/layout design, never the less this one, single style of dm map has become completely dominant in multiplayer design in Q1. Some more open maps, even with setpieces, and good looks, for multiplayer, would be a welcome change. At least some distinct areas instead of just Atrium 1 and Atrium 2 would be good.

ORL your map looks pretty cool, maybe what people are saying is that if you took the time to make such architecture (which afterall looks good), it wouldn't be that much more effort to get the maximum effect out of that architecture by giving it some lighting. 
how on earth it got 1500-2000 wpoly r_sppeds allover the map?
fastvis? made from func_walls? 
There are also 2 secret SP maps (not reviewed, possibly will be in a future update) a.k.a never.
Dunno what the idea behind this is, though I suspect those maps were simply too awesome to be reviewed in one session. 
Apart from the texturing being as bland as a peeled scrote ...rofl shambler, man I love you.

ORL: Maps are a form of art and whether you like it or not everyone has an opinion on each piece. The fact that you playtested for only a week, and with only six people, implies that you did indeed want to "get it out the door" but that does not mean you should reject constructive criticism when it comes your way.

Constructive criticism is really worth a lot, it's a form of advice. Consider this. 
Giving Away HL2 And HL2:Episode 1 On Steam 
Hi, I have a free copy of Half Life 2 and Half Life 2: Episode 1 to give a away through Steam.

If anyone's interested, drop me a line at The sender of the first mail I receive gets the gift codes sent per mail. 
Darn, obviously. 
Nitin Was First 
Oh Yeah... 
I'm giving HL2 and ep1 away too if anyone doesn't have them yet, same, on steam. 
Me Too 
i'd be interested in ep1 - how do i contact you? :) 
make that criticism is really worth a lot, it's a form of advice. instead of Constructive criti... 
Daz rocks so much =) 
Still Got A Copy Opf HL2 To Give Away 
any takers? 
Oh Yeah 
I have those. Hl2 and ep1.

Mail the address in my profile or come and bug me in #terrafusion if you are interested. 
Its crazy really - I have the orange box and the Half-Life 2 Holiday Season package so I'm in the same boat really. Except I have the latter on the PC and the former on the 360, + Half-Life one is with the Holiday Season package and not in the Orange Box.

Its better on the 360 tho - better picture + framerate.

What are they gonna package Ep3 with??!??! 
Your Mom 
Keep Dreaming 
The Hull Bug 
Where you get stuck at stupid places.
This seems to be fixable and is invented in dp and now in ezquake, didn't know it was possible clientside:
It'd probably be easy to port the fix to sp clients, no? 
Just played Insomnia when I should have been working, and I would just like to say that its very good. I think (to an extent) Ijed has used a few of your ideas in Warp, but your detail and architecture in the first map for sure (I havent played the whole thing - just died on the second level) is better. I still think your a bastard though for the crush trap where you pick up the rockets which are on top of a shootable button.

From what ive read, the third level is a bit gothic aka Q3Arena style or sommit' so Im looking forwards to that!

First level - 198/198, 2/3 secrets 
Best Thing About Insomnia 
The anus (goatse) teleporters in the start map! 
Thieved alot of stuff. 
You Ain't The First 
about the only Q1SP more imitated than CZG07c in recent times is Contract Revoked 
Ep2 Stats Page

This is really cool, especially the "death maps" images, they are top down shots of each map in the game with a heat bloom effect that gets brighter depending on how many players died in that area, I imagine stuff like this is very handy for testing but its cool to look at too :) 
That is indeed very cool. Thanks for sharing that! 
Why I love Wikipedia:

Logical implication does not bar the lamp from being on, off, or vanishing completely to be replaced by a horse-drawn pumpkin.  
My Current Work, Dspdm6 
I want speak a bit about my current work, my six qw map (dspdm6). I need some ideas or suggestions for improve the map. Please play it in your localhost and leave your comment.


Map title: "Blood Hunger Doctrine" (thanks JohnNy_cz)


----- (new on beta3)
New screens (2 rooms more):

----- (last beta version)
BSP File beta 3: 
betas are not news items. Only final map releases are.

Someone with moving capability will place your post in the screenshots/betas thread. 
That looks really smart!

Very Gruesome.

Unfortunately I dont play DM Quake - so I may never play it.

Really like the rocks on the seventh screenie down from the top. Also the cracks in the tiling.

Maybe put some more cover items in, spice up the lighting a bit. Dunno really. 
Looks Good 
The Meatpack textures convert nicely to Q1. Also has some nice gameplay setups (the pillar with the quad) so I can imagine it being nice to play.

But here's mainly SP; try

Which has a pretty active DM community. 
those are nice textures! i'm surprised i haven't see any quake maps with those before. 
The Q3 Meat mappacks, I think there's three by Meat (author name). My favourite map has to be Darkmeat - the quad trap / pit thing is excellent, the back and forth jumpads are a larf for railing as well. 
ijed direct link? i can�t find it... 
Here You Go 
Great Textures But 
the brushwork looks boxy? Dunno... 
Didn't Know He Had A Site 
Just got them from .::Level

I reckon the brushwork looks more boxy because of the wide angle fov, but they are a bit. Most of the maps feel a bit experimental, but its rare to find a BFG in any user made map (White Meat) and there's lots of good gameplay dynamics experimented with.

In general they're not really 'art' maps, but very fun to play. 
I think they were talking about dspdm6 not meat's maps. 
Have you seen the new tetris-map news post from

Check out that URL for Orl's DM map!!

Also Doom3 shaders look 
New Map Reviews At My Site: 
Deja Vu (by RickyT23)
the Grand Guignol (by Fern)

i don't believe i need to say anything else. 
is bad for the health. I enjoy mapping, but *my god* it's not doing my back any good. Starting to feel like a cripple...

Also staring at a screen for too long is frying my brain. Made worse that before July I was a factory labourer and guitarist - now I do admin on a computer all day, then mapping on evening. 
Heh, yeah after more than 10 years of mapping my body is a wreck. My back gives me pain, my arm/wrist are strained and my vision is crappy (although it always has been).

And still I map! 
In twenty / thirty years we'll all still be here mapping; wizened little Gollum creatures putting maps together . . . 
just get a proper chair/table
and you dont spend 8hrs/day mapping (like some people DO at work) 
Five hours stood up in a (supposedly 15 minute SCRUM) meeting listening to all the design errors you've made. And then be told you've done a great job. FFS. 
There's Nothing Wrong With Chair/table 
Its my crappy posture thats doing it!!!

Screenies tomorrow!! ;-) 
Lord British Home 
He doesn't seem to be able to separate reality from his game worlds: 
Duke Nukem Forever 
One of the funnier dismissals of it I've seen:

I particularly like the Science and Technology section. 
is it wrong that i'm still excited about duke forever? At the least it means I must hate myself. 
I Don't Think 
the average net connection is 10 megabits nowadays...
But hey, maybe they can chalk it up to "the general population's ability of doing simple calculation in their head was lost" point which can be added to between 1997 and now.
Otherwise mostly quite fun! 
maybe more like 3 megabits or so, that's still 100 times more than the maximum possible back then! 
Did you get my last two emails? 

sorry for the slow response. I plan at looking at it tonight. 
Plague Interior 
i made a new dark ambient track:[entrance].mp3

say if it sucks or pretty good 
I Like It 
Would fit well with the later Nehahra levels.

Reminds me of a q2 map / concept I was messing with - 2 levels and the bottom one is filled with toxic gas (sort of volumetric fog), needing biosuits to pass through it without damage.

The pipe clanging could be a bit intrusive when exported to the Quake lower format - if you're going to use it as a sound inside the game rather than a soundtrack played from outside.

Is it for a map you're working on? 
I like it, although I miss a rithm section. At the end it is somehow oversounded.
But a nice ambience. How have you made it?

I won't do it easily, but here's something I made,
only simple guitar, base and solo. 
...thankyou, just what I needed this arvo. I'm now officially a fan of your music, this one could've done with a more recognizable finish...perhaps some silent punctuations. Nonetheless, beaut!!! 
...tidy up the higher solo track and that one's a winner. Now go make a melancholy map (not base) so you can use it a ambient background :) 
It's a Ibanez channel mixer with a Gibson Emmerauder.
Don't have grip on the volumes after the reccording.

If I ever learn to map with a plan... 
Pulsar - awesome dark track, could use a bit more variations until the 5 min. mark when the eerie drones set in

MadFox - nice rhythm screwage :) 
not sure if it is fo&#1082; the map i'm going om, but at leasst that the tracck is finished. and i hope i'll use it,i'm not sure so far 
I'm Drunk 
do not pay attention a llot to the last post 
Nice Tracks Both 
Pulsar's for Quake, Madfox's for a mediterranean summer afternoon, or something. 
umm, your song doesn't go anywhere? It's just repetition repetition repetition repetition rep.. you get it? 
Orpheus Toast 
Sielwolf, I started drumming when I got my first new shoes, the boxes didn't long last.

Pulsar, you're mapping right, at least on a synthesizer.

Neg|ke, let's jam together on a better longitude.
Do you also map on music?

Bambuz, I just improvise on moments and add a channel later.
It is more conceptional music, and needs more polishing. 
dont know how I missed it, but just played your turtle map. Excellent stuff!! 
Good God! 
Just thought it seemed really quiet so I thought I had better post... 
Thanks For This 
You're Welcome! 
(Thanks for what, the cheese or the company?) 
D00d Cut The Cheese * 
*which Q3 bot uses this taunt eh? :) 
Forgot the cheese symbol. 
hey does anybody have those panorama screenshots I made for two of my Q2 levels? One was Concrete Dreams and one was for Derelict. I realized I don't have them since the hard drive crash a couple years ago.

If you do have either one, please upload them or email them. 
Anyone interested in doing some good looking and great playing fresh Slide maps? That mod is so great. 
Hehe Slide 
man I need to find a copy of that... Loved it so much "way back when..."

Quake rally also, fantastic stuff :D

Anyone got download links? 
you legend =) 
Earth Sculptor

It is a new terrain generator basically Quak4 oriented. It seems to be quite similar to nemesis' tool, nevertheless I will check if it can be used for Quake...

Enjoy ! 
... But... 
... it is not free :( 
The TASpring Community 
had some free heightmap map editors, you can look there, if it helps any. 
that looks really good, nice find. 
100 new descriptions at Quaddicted: 
I really enjoy flicking through the various descriptions when you guys at Quaddicted add updates! 
I Object. 
The description for 'thefly' should simply be:

I believe thefly is a map by Markus Klar made in '98. In '98, Markus Klar made a map called thefly. Markus Klar made a map in '98 called thefly.

(go back in func history if you need to get the joke) 
It Might Be A Bit Obscure 
ao I'll just give it away.

Markus Klar is a near anagram for Bono's birth name. It is off by a few letter's, but that is due to Gaelic alliteration. The Fly, of course, being a reference to the second best track on Achtung Babe (The Acrobat being the best one).

Also, if you find the un(entity)declared door switch secret you will find a pentagon shaped room with the letters, V-O-X on the back three walls. As in, Bonovox, those guitarheads in the Music thread will know that one. Good stuff. 
Release a Q1 SP map please thx. 
It's cooking.... but you will need to be patient: I have a serious lack of free time these days ;) 
Im Working On It Shambler!!! 
Wouldnt want to rush would I!

New maps will have 300+ monsters on hard!
All the weapons
Many monsters (as before but with Ogres and Shamblers too)

Give me about 1 weeks I think!!

Would you like to help with the final playtesting Shambler? 
I Said 'maps' But I Meant 'map' 
For you I have outdone myself:

RickyT23: Good maps are not rushed! 
I'm Working On A Pack. 
Some months to go yet. 
Can I do some testing? Can I, can I ?!??! :-) 
Not yet ;) 
calmdown!!! i got two in the cook! release date untill 03/08 i hope... 
I think you guys are thinking of a map called Markus Klar, made by a guy called 'The Fly' 
Crysis Physics Porn 
Oh God I Love Crates 
even when they're used to reconstruct the twin towers but the towers are wearing top hats and then a plane flies into them. Watch the video if you think I'm actually crazy. 
I was disappointed not to see the crate-twin-towers being crashed. 
Fuck Fucking Fuck 
Why the fuck does IE7 have to render tables in a fucking idiotic way?

Opera, Firefox, IE5 display at least remotely sane stuff. (FF and IE5 can't vertically align cell contents, which is completely retarded of course.)

But with IE7 the narrowest table cells flow over the whole page...

I'm fed up with this!

Now I have to install IE7 and start troubleshooting just to customize the page for it.

I'll only work with hardware in the future.

This is fucking 2007 for fuck's sake. Would think they had gotten stuff to work in the last ten years. 
Post Above Inspired 
by the short version of Big Lebowski on youtube, a movie that I didn't really like originally anyway. 
I Love Snow 
and recently found out Darkplaces & dpmod have a incredible func_snow. :) 
Looks Like A Black Screen To Me?!?! 
I must have the wrong drivers :-(
Weird tho - I thought in this day and age drivers would be correctly installed automatically (?)
I just get 13 seconds of black.

You'll to have a x264 capable codec or a player like VLC. 
Looks cools! Does func_snow overide skybox? Looks like a blizzard! 
The Fog 
Overrides the skybox then? Either way looks pretty nice, might be time to experiment with Dark Places, I always wanted proper rain in Quake. Zerstorer was ok but didn't feel much like rain to me. 
Dammit, I Forgot The Bloom For Extra Blingbling 
Looks a bit better with bloom enabled.

Yes, the fog is what overrides the sky. Volumetric(?) fog would be awesome, something like a func_fog soft very soft, moving edges. Rawr! There is a Telejano build & mod which has some kind of snowy e1m1 with fog on the floor. Looks quite nice.

The thing with Darkplaces is that the game feels somewhat different. :\ 
Ijed / RickyT23 
AFAIK, only aguirRe's engine allow to have both fog and skybox rendering, and with all other engines, fog overrides skybox.

Maybe DP or other enhanced GL engine would allow shuch a feature... more tests are required :P 
since the skybox is in the distance, the sky should be fog-color. So no skybox with fog makes sense that way - if there was one, it would be obscured by the fog anyway. 
But I just checked it: with aguirRe's engine, if fog density is low enough (e.g <0.1) then the skybox, or the sky, is still visible... It gives a cool effect of "grounded" fog... like in marshes.. 
Used it in warp. There's two problems, in that distant objects get culled closer (warpb didn't have those big doors in it originally) and the fog can get thicker in the corners of the skybox because of the distance. I think I used 0.05 or something there. 
the fog can get thicker in the corners of the skybox because of the distance

Yes, I also noticed this corner effect... weird.. 
I Was Thinking Of Using A Bit Of Fog In My New Map... 
I'm aiming for FitzQuake usage, but there is one indoor arean, it would be cool to have some fog when in the aream but not after you leave.

I would have to use a Quoth "trigger_command" key, right?

But what is the cammand to put fog on, and then what is the command to turn it off? Does FitzQuake even have fog? Any ideas? 
I Cant Type "arena" Today :-( 
fog (density) (red) (green) (blue) - though putting in fewer numbers works as well (3 = colour only, 1 = density only).

That's 0 for none and 1 for maximum.

Try aguirRe's documentation for more concise info. 
Sorry - I should look at documentation before asking here :P 
You can't set colour only, it's either density only (one value, also turns fog on/off), density and common rgb colour (two values) or all four values.

Recommended density is well beneath 0.1 (often beneath 0.05), otherwise textures and lighting are basically ruined.

Recommended "colour" is grey (i.e. common rgb). If colour is desired, use a very complex and subtle one, avoid clear red, green or blue.

See neh2m5 for an interesting poisonous and sulphur-ish example or a less fortunate red/green example in Invein
Concise = correct ;) 
You Bad 
I'm very very very and very and very (and very)
disappointed. Nobody said a word about my quake ogre's drawing.
Maybe it can be used to do a mdl, maybe not, but saying if it sucks or it's good it's not soo expensive, i think. 
Did you post any shots here ? I can't remember... 
Yes, but there was a sort flame with a mapper, maybe it was the wrong time.
You can find it here: 
I Looked 
the Quake and Doom stuff on there is cool 
I like the little tree growing up between his eyebrows :) 
Ha - I Was Thinking... 
...what time are you all on? It's 10:50am where I am, but I often think people might be posting at 3:00am and are thinking about going to bed... 
French Time Is 
11:52 AM here... 
I'm On 
9:56 just now. 
That's South America 
Lol :D 
1:00pm here!

So Ijed is 4 hours behind me
and JPL seems half an hour behind me (weird, thought time zones were 1:00 increments, not 0:30 mins - does France have half hour seasonal adjustments?) 
I gave the hour compared to #13264 time... so when it is 13:00 for you, it is 14:00 for me.. 
Oh - I See! 
You Know 
in the internet there are people meeting from all over the world.

I know that there are people at least from the North- and South America, Europe, Asia and Australia regular on this board. Mostly NA and EU of course. 
hihi bobby discovering timezones 
My State Of Consciousness 
transcends both time and space. I am living neither here or now. My awareness persists along a vector that is orthogonal to spacetime.

Timezones are meaningless to me. 
.. is the spatio-temporal continuum master :) 
I Tried That Line 
transcends both time and space. I am living neither here or now. My awareness persists along a vector that is orthogonal to spacetime.

Timezones are meaningless to me.</>

in a bar one time. Amazingly enough, it didn't get me laid. Next time I'm asked, 'do I have the time', I'm saying, 'I have all the time in the world for you, honey.' That should do it.
it's like, 12:30am

also known as: go map time, you slacks 
It's 9:06 - drink a coffee time. 
Well I'm About To Have Lunch! 
Check this out

Upside down textures in almost all of the screenies!!! LOL :D 
What Is The Meaning Of This? 
Able to download it, but TexMex cannot open it... Spirit: wtf ?? 
Don't Blame Me 
I just put everything there what I get.
It looks like a wad for Hexen 2 and also it looks like it uses a different palette. 
that's the point.

I converted all the quake2 psp files back to a wad, which took quiet some time. It is not that uneasy, Wally will convert them back to Q1 pal. Only needs to load all of the textures one by one and turn them into a wad.

And hoping someone takes the time to take a look before putting them on the net, before getting the h2/quake feeling. 
No blame... I'm just surprised ;) 
after realizing I was working with the Hexen2 tex all the time and wondered where it came from, I decided to convert it well. I extracted all textures from the game in bmp and imported them back to Wally.

I couldn't get the animated textures, only some buttons.
Sky textures ask for lumps(?)
but at least it is not that blurred tex as before.

I'll send it to Spirit to place on his site. 
Those are nice textures indeed, never checked Hexen2 before. 
Sorry Spirit man, please dont feel like I was disrespecting you, just thought I'd bring it up cause I've been trapseing through the wads directory on quaddicted trying to find a decent brick texture! 
No offense taken at all. It's always nice when people report bad files. ! 
Some of the wad files contain a collection of pictures, which are hard to trace working in an editor.
The Quake2 wad original all had gif files, which I could patiently convert back to a solid wadfile.
Trying to convert the anim textures broke me up, because these textures became one frame.
The same error occurs when trying to extract the +0water2, as it turns back to a 0water2.bmp 
Some of the wad files contain a collection of pictures of MAPPERS!
Nehahra wad has got looooooads of scary mugshots in it!
I thought czg was supposed to be fat?!?!
I Gained Weight. 
I'm fat now. Fat fat fat fat fat. 
made me convert all hex2 brushes into a wad,
before I realized wad I had done...
they were already there, yo

let me guess...yo 're thinner. 
you're welcome 
Quaddicted Christmas Competition
Good luck with the questions and have fun! 
Awesome Spirit 
That rocks. You rock. Good luck everybody! 
Is there massive wonky shit going on with net? 
seems so, large netsplit that isn't resolving itself. :(

At least I have the proper side of the split with metlslime 
to anyone who has lae3dm3 and unitooldm6 (q3 maps).

I get pixellated textures (or maybe its blotchy lightin) on these maps. Any ideas on this? Only 2 maps (and they both have flat textures) that do this. 
as far as i remember these maps were made to demonstrate some special hardware thing of S3 video cards, so it might use special shaders or something.... 

lae3dm3 from memory was an attempt at a geocomp type map while unitooldm6 has that cel shading technique. 
Ah Then 
my memory fails me probably, maybe there's some additional hints in the readmes? 
I Cant' Believe 
that no one has mentioned anything about the DNF teaser trailer that is being released today!?

screenshots would help 
Duke Teaser Shot, Heh 
Fog Errata 
In my post #13257 above regarding engine fog, I corrected ijed by saying that fog colours couldn't be set by using the three parameter fog red green blue syntax. That was wrong, it does work.

Sorry ijed, I don't know my own engine features, I even forgot about it in the docs too ... Hopefully corrected now.

Thanks for the heads up! 
Thought so, wasn�t about to contradict though. 
another map where in spots I'm getting either blotchy lighting/lightmaps or pixellated textures.

I'll see if I can get screenies for this effect on this map and lae3dm3 and unitooldm6. 
try running with r_lightmap 1 to see if it's lighting 
<-- Cheese 
that no one has mentioned anything about the DNF teaser trailer that is being released today!?

I had a look - heh, horrible character design on the Duke imo - he looks like what Bart Simpson might turn into if he grew up to become a homosexual bodybuilder. That said, I think this game could be interesting; the devs know it has to be good or the whole thing will turn into a hilarious Daikatana-esque debacle. 
Old but still funny (and up to date): 
DNF Teaser Bollox. 
Well. It shows something. It shows Duke. It shows a couple of very brief in-game moments which you can slow down and see monsters etc. It doesn't show much else.

It looks very much like Prey in style and graphics quality. How old is Prey now?? 
tried that, yep the lightmaps look pixellated/splotchy.

Can anyone confirm it's the lighting in these maps (which presumably shows more pixellation the higher the gamma is)? 
Aye...'s going to click over here in a couple of hours, but the family got it all out of the road yesterday. I'm recovered and ready for bed.

Merry Yule to one and all, thanx expecially to metl for keeping this board developing at a reasoned rate.

FYI, I scored both the RocKwiz Duet albums and Happy much!?! 
Uggghhhhh... :-| 
Look after parents house for two weeks over christmas, theyre gone for one day and the tropical fish tank overheats, slow-cooking all of the residents in their own luke-warm shitty water solution.

Syphon water out of tank with a hose (vomit noises)

Oh man, that sucks. Have the parents found out yet? :) 
well, I sent father an SMS and he replied with some 'jobs' he wants me to do...

Tank is now clean - smell subsided - dining room re-inhabitable :-D 
5 years and 3 days of func! 
Merry Funcmas everyone! 
Indeed! Happy Christmas to all!

I've spent the better part of my morning arguing with Airport Extreme about the existence of my USB hard drive. Good times!

I swear, Apple makes some amazing products but Airport Extreme is a major blight on their record. 
Merry Christmas 
5 years and 3 days of func!

on that topic, thanks, metl. :) you're one of the good guys. 
Merry Christmas 
and wonderful Festivus to all ye Func_boarders,
and for the atheist amongst us who feel left out this day, a gift to cheer your non existent souls: 
Happy Christmas To Everybody! 
And since I'll be going away a happy new year to your all! 
Merry Christmas 
and btw, what's a good resource to learn about the Quake source? I want to try to port fitzquake to OS X, but first I need to learn a bit about the source and its structure. Any pointers? 
Hehe Pointers 
I get it. You programmers and your humor XD 
no link? 
Hi.. Um.. Merry Xmas!

It is who you think it may be. 
Still On The Run... 
...thanx for popping in with the cheer, don't be a stranger! 
Yeah Still On The Runnn! 

I need to get back into mapping, I miss it. 
Please please please do port it to Linux too. I think it would be quite similar so it would be a shame not to do it in the process. 
Combine an album title from Alice Cooper with an album title by Wings and screw with the spelling,
you get klzotr. I gotta be some serious gay just to know that. 
The idea is to port it to SDL. From there, a linux version is no problem at all. 
That's fantastic.

Maybe browsing the sources of Qudos' SDL ports will help you:

I once tried but being a programming illiterated I gave up next second. He changed some other things too though, so the difference between windows source and port is not only the porting. :} should help big time.

Other links you probably already know:

PS: I did not meant not to give you those links earlier, I was accessing func from a different PC. 
Thanks for the information, Spirit! 
Daz' game reviews in Other PC Games reminded me of the 'borked review scale' discussion: 5 games, scale from 0/1 to 5, worst game rates 3.5 ;) 
thats cos all the games were good :) 
I Was Gonna Open A "dumb Assed Question Thread"... 
Im trying to download Rygels massive uberiffic replacement texture pack from the shub-hub, and ive downloaded "rygel-dp-texturepack ultra.pk3.part1.rar"

(ive replaced one of the hyphens with a space so it's shown in its entirety^^)

How the hell do you open this file? Or if I downloaded the other two bits (of three) it seems almost as if I'd be supposed to stick them all together? 7zip is what I'm using, and when I try to extract the above file, it churns away for about 2-3 mins, as if decompressing the files, and then gives an error message :-( 
You need all three then 7zip will automatically do it properly.

Just download one of the smaller ones, they also run much faster and look only marginally "worse". These textures are really a matter of taste anyways. 
Earlier today I stumbled across

based on:
Original Win/GL(Quake|QuakeWorld) source code by John Carmack
Enhanced Win/GLQuake by Bengt Jardrup
Excellent FitzQuake by John Fitzgibbons

primary goal of this project:
create fast and stable developers/mappers engine with fixing lots GL rendering bugs all in one.

While I did not succeed building it on Linux it might help you. 
Happy New Year, I Hate You 
Hardware Question 
do any of you guys know what (besides bad memory or busted HDDs) can cause seemingly random lockups (no STOP screen, no restart, just the sound loops and nothing responds)?

nothing appears in the event log so i can't track it down, and i've done a memory test with memtest86 and checked all my disks and nothing has turned up. 
Thanks, but purely for my own education, I'll implement the SDL parts from scratch. Maybe I'll look at other ports afterwards to optimize things. 
I've Had That A Lot Recently, Necros 
the last time, it turned out my BIOS was corrupted, I would recommend checking with the manufacturer (visit to the website should suffice, if its the case). I discovered the BIOS that came stock on my system was one that was outdated and never intended for my rig. 
Happy New Year 
Apart from bad memory, the other most likely cause of seemingly random crashes and stuff is probably the power supply.

Have you recently added any hardware? Is this a new machine, or just a new problem on an old machine? 
Vote For Your Favorite Quake Singleplayer Release In 2007 
A Happy New Year To You All 
And god bless us, every one. 
A Happy New Year 
it's a new problem with an old machine. my psu is new though, 620 watt.

i was talking to some other guys and they were saying it could maybe be a driver problem. is there a way to track drivers in use to somehow see if one is causing problems? 
Happy Hangover Day... 
Necros My Dear 
I had constant hangups and deadlocks like you describe plus some random BSODs. I got a random tip to check out what voltage settings my RAM preferred, and found out that it didn't like being run on the default voltage and liked it a bit stronger. I turned it up and haven't had a problem since.
- Anecdote. 
Interesting, I have the same problems, how did you find what voltage settings your RAM prefers? 
Czg and Bal

put your tongue on it!!! 
if burn it... is ok if not put more voltage... 
My Horribly Dated Deathmatch Articles Are Back 

more anachronistic than useful at this point. 
Since Quake2 gameplay doesn't employ much strategy, weapon choice is not a heavy issue, and the weapons don't demand much in the way of it anyway. -Lunaran, ca. 2000 C.E. 
Happy New Year 
bit late, but I don't care. czg is a cunt. 
Distrans, I sent you a mail in mid december to the usual address. Did you not receive it? 
...I got it, but cannot access that account any longer. There's actually only 3DM levels, the fourth is there purely so 'demo1' will run. I will get a proper archive together with a proper readme. Apologies, I'll try not to delay to much more. 
Yet, compared to some of the fucks in the Rails community I�m like Jesus and Ghandi smashed together into an awesome gigantor kindness monster. 
No hurry, it was just a "somewhen in the future"-todo.

Anyone bored can have fun with
e1m3 upside down... Eh. 
that's the reason for the gameplay in lun3dm1. just grab any gun and start moving! which, really, is what quake3 wanted you to do.

in my defense I wasn't at all into watching pro demos or anything like that back then. I know now that the chaingun ruled all in that game. 
And E1m2u 
Re: Rails 
to clarify (two guys already asked):

I just liked the words he used and found them very tf-y / func_y (!), but i couldn't stand quoting them without providing the source. Ignore the post itself (there's some other funny language in it, though). The drama itself is pretty boring. 
Oh Yeah 
can someone point me to the definition of fuckton? ;) 
Not simply a ton, but a whole fucking ton. 
Head Tracking For Desktop VR Displays Using The WiiRemote 
3D GAmes Wiiiiiiiii: it's for tomorrow !!!

interesting video.
Can you imagine an ogre grenade flying at you from th tv? :) 
Head Tracking For Desktop VR Displays Using The Wii Remote 
Bal V� Por La Merda Vous � Um Petit Enfant 
[10:18] * You were kicked from #terrafusion by Bal___ (Trinca)

[11:10] -> *Bal_* you have 1 minute to unban

[11:11] #terrafusion unable to join channel (address is banned)

[11:48] #terrafusion unable to join channel (address is banned)

[11:48] * Info: Press Control+F2 to retry!

this fucking stupid asshole anymore, just make fucking stupid spwan... 
***this fucking stupid asshole dont map anymore, just make fucking stupid spwan...*** 
gotta love it. I should get back on #tf 
Trinca you have op status on the channel, as far as I know you could have unbanned yourself anytime, which is why I didn't unban you myself (I didn't even kick you at the time of the ban, so you saw it and were still chatting aftewards).
And honestly, you deserve it for being so vulgar and aggresive all the time, I know #tf isn't exactly the most politically correct channel around, still, chill out already.

What's a spwan? 
I have tried your upside down maps. They were interesting and fun. E1m2 seems better - you can get almost to the end without explosives.
I wasn't aware that the ceiling was so detailed in the id maps. 
spwan = sprinter ... or was it spam ? 
uhm yeah 
I should get back on #tf

Yes, you should. 
Does anyone have some hosting space for Q1SP stuff I could use? PQ's changed their setup around again, and while I could go through the normal channels and regain access I figure it's probably time to finally move off of PQ anyway. Most mappers already have.

My site is about 20 MB, and the Soul of Evil site is about 10MB.

Thanks, Tronyn 
Spirit (quaddicted) and scampie (leveldesign) both have hosting available.

...but I think you should get 
email me if you'd like to be hosted at 
Get away from Planetquake. Their domain change screwup last year was bad enough and a lot of sites are still broken. Stupid Gamespy.

I can host Quake stuff but only sites without need for a database (unless someone needs it for something extraordinary). The reason is that it makes backups much easier. :) 
4 New Map Reviews At My Site: 

sickbase (by RickyT23)
Distractions (by Mikko Sandt)
(Dont Bite) The Hand That Feeds You(by RickyT23)
I Pity Thee Not (by Kell) 
Something's wrong with your email address? My mails keep getting rejected. (Ostensible reason: IP block because of spam mails/MSN being a dick) 
Hey Neg!ke, 
I corresponded with Tronyn last night without a hitch, unless he didn't get my reply ;). At the very least, the spam filter would have saved the e-mail to the junk pile. I don't set it to delete until after the e-mails are read.

The only new factor I can think of is the service is now called Windows Live, and the only difference I've noted are a few new self congratulatory banners on Microsoft's part and a less aesthetically appealing interface.

Give it another try, and if that doesn't work I'll give you an alternative address later tonight. 
Corresponded Last Night 
Awwwww yeah....

Sorry, I was infected with dumbass joke syndrome from when I worked in a warehouse. I'm pretty sure I got your reply so it should be all good.

BTW Uwf thanks for doing that latest update yourself, I spent the last 3 weeks basically wasted so I wouldn't have been much help even if you HAD asked, lol, but thanks.

My site doesn't need a database; I guess it's just picking between Quaddicted and LD then. I'll be sorting out some emails later tonight (including yours HT). 
'flaw of being too easy at the beginning with not enough monsters and too much ammo and health.'

since when not pummelling the player from the start is a flaw? 
according to uwf travail was worse than hand that feeds you... 
I'll Defend That 
if the basis was consistency. The overall consistency of Travail varied and the score is probably an attempt to reflect on the quality of the whole pack.

And comparing a pack's score with an individual map score is not worth much IMHO. Comparing Travail's score with another map pack score would probably be a better way/ 
<spds> bigger = better
I agree. Who would want to play a map with less than 200 monsters anyway. 
Small Is Beautiful. 
Each monster should count... 
fish are more equal than others... 
Each To Their Own 
<spds> bigger = better

Strongly disagree. 
I Dont Know What To Say... 
...I think its wrong! I feel like Stevie Ray Vaughan did when he was told that Buddy Guy (or was it BB King) was opening up for him...

Dont change it please! It made my year!

AArrggghh!! All these mixed up feelings... 
<spds> bigger = better

<someone> variety is the spice of life

I think that whilst the Warpspasm maps are great, they are a bit of a grind because of the sheer size and length of playtime with no end. Other large maps such as Marcher and czg07 do not suffer from this but are not as large. However, I've had plenty of fun with the terra maps and rpg's mini episode was also highly enjoyable. 
That was an ironic statement... 
I think Warp got more recognition than it deserved because of the size, there was a lot of boring stuff in there and a lack of impressive or cool moments that I could have corrected with more patience.

In Marcher or czg07 there's very little repetition of environment - Marcher has those staircases but that's not so bad. Whereas warpb has an endless maze of brick corridors interspersed with open outdoor bits.

Ah well, you live and learn. 
You Made Your Mark Though!! 
Experiments in the extremities - when done well of course - are good experiences in their own right, even if they might not end up as refined or as high quality.

I am still eagerly awaiting super-detailed, super-hardcore micro-maps. 20 monsters, every one a significant gameplay event, etc etc. 
That Would Be Good . . . 
But I don't think Quake monsters are set up for it. Vondur's Castle of Koohoo is probably the closest there's been with only the fish and sometimes zombies really used as filler enemies.

Spose it's how far the map is willing to build the map around the monster and its behaviour rather than their aesthetic concept.

A single Ogre could chase an unarmed player around an evil dead cabin but I'm certain sooner or later the bad AI would tell and the player would end up axing to death a stuck Ogre. 
sarcasm, not irony.

sarcasm = advocating something which actually is a hidden criticism that ridicules the advocacy.

irony = some random event that is unexpectedly fitting and even makes the previous stance ridiculous. This is a term that is surprisingly hard to explain. 
It's like rain on your wedding day! 
Experiments in the extremities - when done well of course
Shambler, what are you trying to hint at? 
Oh Lol 
I'm trying to hint that your upside down remixes sucked fetid goat sac and I'll hate you for ever more for making me waste 2 minutes downloading them and wandering around them. Yeah, something like that ;) 
Merriam-Webster Online says on "irony":
a: the use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning b: a usually humorous or sardonic literary style or form characterized by irony c: an ironic expression or utterance

Who else wants a go at it? 
<spds> Bigger = Better 
merely an observation of general public taste

shamb couldnt beat an upsidedown map? lol noob 
Ijed Re: #13398 
I have a exceedingly good Rutherglen Shiraz set aside should you ever make it to Wodonga, in the meantime I doff my cap. 
a == an 
Not A Wine Drinker 
Prefer water of life.

And I'm half cut. Just deleted a rambling post of a fair few letters.

If I'm ever in Wodonga I'll let you know, the chance isn't so far fetched. 
Im Gagging For Quoth 2 
That book is quite funny even though the humour is rather childish (at least the german translation). 
Q3shw21: Destroyer BETA2 
Wrong thread: should have been posted in Screenshots & Betas thread... ;)

Anyway, the shots looks very good: nice architecture, nice details, but I think the lightning effects are quite flat...

Well, nice job: keep it up ! 
The readme should be named q3shw21_b2.txt.
I don't really like the naming starting with q3 (as those normally are the baseq3 maps I'd say) but that's your choice.

The looks are fantastic! Lighting is good too.
One thing I would change is to add the possibility to "climb" up from the rocket launcher (with those floor plates).
The spawnpoints are a bit random and few(?) but I have no idea where to better put them. 
Shambler wrote: I am still eagerly awaiting super-detailed, super-hardcore micro-maps. 20 monsters, every one a significant gameplay event, etc etc.

Kell's and Necros' Quoth test maps (the ones shipped with Quoth - KelltestX etc) are a bit like that. I play them a lot. They're not super-detailed though, nor super-tough, but cleanly made. There are more maps like that. RPGSMSE* was already mentioned (not quite enough monsters though IMO.) Quoth is probably really well suited to such maps, because of tough individual monsters on one hand, and vorelings on the other. I really like the kelltest map with the voreling-spawning unholy altar (M'Gah!). I wish Kell would do 10 more of those.

The concept is cool. 
I wish Kell would do 10 more of those.

Thanks :)

There is a base testmap to demonstrate the new content for Quoth2. It's a bit larger than the Quoth1 testmaps, but I'm still tryign to keep it minimal.

There's also a testmap just for breakables. 
Heh, OK, I see the rotated nail box but what else is in that scene? 
Necros' Quoth Test Map 
would rock much more if it used some rudimentary vis blocking like not straight corridors between main areas... *grumbles*
But it's a test map anyway... 
Gagging, Drooling - Someone Pass Tissue... 
...groan. Foot tapping, fidgiting, pacing up and down, unable to sleep. Refuse to make anymore maps, sulking....

Breakables ? :D :D

Haaoouwww . . . ! 
I drooled not over the screenie but over additional minimaps. 
...or find Than's GlasTest in your email... 
...the three sections are joined, and we have a seal!!! Detailing on the last section commences now :) 
Czg Hearts Barney 
men's toilets Fulton Street :) 
Development Of A NASA-based Massively Multiplayer Online Learning Game 
I hope gibbie adds a dopefish somewhere. 
I Suppose I May As Well Ask In Advance 
I'm "close" (for me) to releasing something, I'd say "before the snow melts," but anyway, does anyone have like a BEAST of a computer that they would like to volunteer for compiling some maps? Remember, with aguirRe's vis you can turn it off and then restart it. 
I'd volunteer but my computer can barely run tf2 smoothly, let alone crysis, so I'd hardly call it a beast.

I wonder if we could do some distributed map compiling. I'm not sure, but I think one of the vis programs supports it. 
Wasn't Inertia 
building a cluster supercomputer? Stacking 4 or so mobos, each with many multi-core processors and gigabit Ethernet. Someone could make a nice php web form interface for compiling then for that. Of course users would need their own accounts.
I bet you'd get some uni project with lotsa credits for that! 
Oh And There'd Need To Be 
a linux build of a parallelized vis program. (And qbsp and light too ofc though they prolly dont need to be parallelized.) Aguirre's tools are win32 only atm I think. 
That's What Inertia WANTED To Do, Yes 
What actually happened was him sitting in his mom's basement, a bored grin crossing his pocky face as a cheesy fart silently escaped the gravitational pull of his arse. 
Intel E6600, 2 GB memory, plenty of harddrive space and time to waste. No quad-core unfortunately yet...

danthefryingpan -seehere- gmail com 
Does any build of vis even support multi-threading at all? I know I never got it to work... 
Does the threading code not do anything? I know that the tool itself accepts a -threads parameter although it doesn't do anything on OSX. 
It Was Only Made To Work With Id's SPARC Server Or Whatever 
It has never worked on anything else. 
I Shit Myself Laughing... 
I've got access to a many-node supercomputer (really). If there are multi-processor compilers for linux, send it my way and I'll see what I can do. 
Cool video, I was not aware that turret's life was so exciting :P 
Wow That Is So Nerdily Awesome Inertia 
I will let you know as soon as I have something ready. Did I send you the latest beta of that one map or not, I can't remember. If so, all of the maps for this project are like that - open, outdoorsy, messy, etc. I'm such a retard. That beta took me 260 hours (2.4 ghz processor, 1 gb ram) to vis although I made some modifications that should cut it down for the final version. 
Feedback on q3shw21_b2:

- Are the liquids actually supposed to be liquids? They act like nonsolid brushes with liquid textures on them. Was that a mistake or is there some goobery pro-mode reason for doing this?
- Parts of this map are very poorly lit. There's nothing wrong with contrast but one of the teleporters for example was very hard to notice. Probably doesn't matter for the intended 'pro' audience because they just play the game in fullbright mode anyway, but if you're concerned about appearance outside of that (which it seems you are) I'd do another pass on this.
- I fell into the lava past the MH and you can see the insides of the lava brush not touching the surrounding geometry, because none of the curve patches for the terrain extend down that far.
- There's a big platform around the MH on the other side of the pit that doesn't do much. If you want the MH to be dangerous to reach, moving it back there would make the combat surrounding it more interesting.
- I like the architecture, that gothic take on industrial. The metal collonade by the railgun is especially cool. :D 
...32647 marksurfaces and just the exit lift to implement, pity I had to hack off a whole section full of insane future tech to get it down :( Now to finish the lighting and sound then wait patiently for the release of Quoth II. 
You should try to implement the last part regardless of marksurfaces. I say that because CDA (I think) exceeded the value, and the map didn't crash with FitzQuake. I suspect it depends mainly how the map is occluded, and so how the engine have to render the poly faces ingame...
It's up to you ;) 
Hiya JPL...'s ended up 32701, yaaaaay!!! But you are right, I could've pushed 500 to 600 over the limit without a problem for FQ. I have confidence in my occlusion skllls, but I really do like to stay within the limits so if bug hunting is required I at least know where not to look. As to the bit I had to lop off it was basically a corridor (albeit a very heavily detailed one) so there's no huge loss. I get to keep the machine "models" for use as prefabs in the next level.

Expect a beta test request soon big boy! 
More Abuse 
OK, don't hesitate to send me your stuff when ready, I'd be happy to help you for beta testing ;) 
*Oooh* 8-o 
Its so Exciting!!! 
A Bit Far Fetched Perhaps 
What The 
There's Also... 
... a hod's as good as a sink to a blind Norse


...huts old naval huts, cavalry take them and they turn 'em into chopped bits


...if you were the only gull in the world and I was the only bouy

But the stories are far too long to explain, so just guffaw at the appropriate punch line. 
50 Years Of LEGO 
Hey Ricky... 
...any chance of an explanation for #13447 
I Just Think That The Idea Of... levels coming out, Quoth2 etc, especially really big levels that rub up against Q1 engine limits, makes my nipples hard!! :D 
You Crazy... 
.. pervert :P 
Just A Question 
In an episode set of (say) three maps, would you as players (not mappers) expect to carry all of your weapons from map to map, or would you be happy to start each map with the default weapons, or would you expect to lose maybe one or two weapons and keep one or two? 
Well, if the maps are intented to be followed (like Five Rivers Land maps), you should not loose your weapons in between.
If the maps are not "linked" directly, and if you want them to be played separately, you must consider the maps as "standalone" maps, and then start all of them with default weapon...
Well, actually it depends on what the mapper wanted to do ... my 2 cents ;) 
As long as it is clearly noticable at each map start I'd say you can do what you want. Just give a message like "You lost your rocket launcher stumbling on the level exit, duh" or something. 
Prefer to keep them and have a weapon progression, even if its not the standard weak -> strong that everyone expects. I mean getting the GL out of sequence and getting the RL in the final map, for example.

Losing weapons when not returning to a hub feels strange, especially when moving in a linear level progression. I remember in HL2 being pissed off at the confiscation chamber crap. Felt like a conceited way to show off the physics a bit more but only in the final stages of the game.

IMHO SSG, NG, GL leaves enough open gameplay strings to follow with the other weapons coming later and not being dropped. The advantages of the others are just more power, apart from the range of the RL - which I guess is why you're asking.

My 2 pence. 
"You lost your rocket launcher stumbling on the level exit, duh"

i think this type of thing is entirely to the mapper's discretion. what will provide the better gameplay? what way makes it more fun? etc etc 
Mike, if I was in some unknown hell dimension being ported to who knows where my grip on the fire power would be tighter than a fish's arsehole. Losing some for anything other than a very plausible reason would certainly be annoying. I think ijed makes some good points.

Ricky, careful you'll put someone's eye out. And just for the record, this level takes up less than one eighth of the available build volumn and has (at this stage) less than 70 enemy on hard.

That's Ridiculous 
Don't even think about releasing!

(Still, if you need overly picky beside-the-point comments, you know where to ask..) 
Do You Mean 1/8th Of The Availiable Lightmaps? 
but with 100% marksurfaces?

As in its horrendously detailed and full of higher end enemies?


(just bust a bloodvessel..) 
If you can do it, what I quite like is for the maps to be designed that you keep your weapons for the normal level of challenge, but also for them to include a couple of weapons so that you can play them individually at a harder level.

The Id maps are quite good for this, obviously they are consecutive but many of them you can jump in, grab a NG and RL (or whatever's on that map) and have enough to play with. 
When playing levels for the sake of recording demos, it pisses me of when you start a map and there are no low end weapons and l00ds of ammo for them!!
Why not replace one of those large boxes of shells with an actual SSG or a box of nails with a NG......

Having said that, if a weapon ditch is for a reason, then I agree with what necros said in that it's entirely up to the mapper! 
My 2 cents ...

It's Quake. Do whatever feels fun. 
Email Downtime 
If you've tried to reach me via email the last ten days, please try again with the new address in the People section. Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks to ijed for the new account. 
In an episode set of (say) three maps, would you as players (not mappers) expect to carry all of your weapons from map to map, or would you be happy to start each map with the default weapons, or would you expect to lose maybe one or two weapons and keep one or two?

Normally, expect to keep them, like in id levels.

Having said that, I like if the mapper gives me the option to play each map individually, i.e. put a nailgun or SSG somewhere in the first third of the map, and maybe a GL in a later secret. Or whatever I need to deal with the given monsters; if the map is full of Death Lords, I'd like a PG or an RL plz even if I started from scratch. Remember Doom, there was always a shotgun near the start of the level, it would either just sit there or someone would drop it.

You can get away with it, removing weapons I mean. Both TombRaider 1 and 2 did this, the former very late in the game, the latter a bit earlier. I fondly remember the part where Lara gets captured on the oil rig or whatever it is. She has no weapons, she must do some crate pushing, climbing, switch pressing and escaping through a timed door, and then an alarm goes off. A few thugs come running for her, which she must dodge past and hide away for a bit until she finds most of her stuff again, in the crew quarters I think. It's the same level where she goes diving (The Deep? 40 Fathoms?) in TR2. One of my all-time favourite games.

She gets the weapons back quickly, though.

Lara can do more than Quakeguy, too, like pushing crates, climbing and a pile of other stuff :-/ and the level design is often more creative, probably as a result of this. Like the level which is upside down (sunken ship). More traps, too. Quakeguy can practically only shoot, so once his weapons are gone, it gets a little boring. OK he can bunnyhop, so there. *g* 
Thanks For The Responses 
I'll clearly need to think through the strategy very carefully. 
Funny Facts: After countless copy'n'pastes the hands start to hurt.

157 new descriptions at Quaddicted, 220 (!) to go. 
DOOMEdit And Vista 
anyone tried using DOOMEdit with windows Vista? Does it work ok, any problems etc?

I just ordered a new laptop with Vista and now I'm getting paranoid that I'm going to have problems. 
Cool!! :D :D 
Mapping Fever 
having dreams of the afloor_31 texture
pile up everywhere I watch. 
Someone release some Quake SP maps plz kthx bye. 
...thought... :P 
Just be sure and diable the Aero color scheme with Vista, it tends to br0k the editor display good. 
"Someone release some Quake SP maps plz kthx bye."

Working on one. Still in the first area though. :P 
roullff i dont even know if i will finish my maya map :\ i might start another... 
Yeah, I suspected that this horrible Aero thing could well bollocks things up.

To be honest when the system arrives I'm probably gonna reformat and do a clean install of XP, assuming I can get hold of a copy, not just for the fact that XP doesn't hog an insane amount of resources compared to Vista, but also to get rid of all the garbage that Dell will no doubt have pre-installed on the machine. 
...sooner than you think, and made to order - you big cuddly you :) 
Cant stand it!!!

Any yeah, just to say I got mine with XP installed. Why half your memory with Vista!!???!?! Why would anybody want to do that to a perfectly good computer? Why is it everytime computer technology gets faster, Windows gets more self indulgent on your machine, and does pretty much what it has been doing right from day one??!!? 
That's why god invented Apple and OSX. :P 
I Know... 
...brings us to the age old debate of:

"I do actually want to play games such as Quake 4 and Doom 3, as well as other new titles on my PC when I get it, so that kinda rules OSX out from the start..." 
I Thought Id Made Mac Versions Of All Their Games 
according to the ID/D3 website, System Requirements lists only Windows 200/XP....

Big surprise, huh? 
I know, I was being a smart ass. Sorry.

Yes, if you want to game on your PC then a Mac is probably not for you. I do pretty much all of my gaming on my consoles (except for Quake).

But I believe czg is correct in this particular case. Hell, wasn't Doom3 originally demoed on a Mac at MacWorld? 
I don't know, but I checked onto Id website, and Mac is not mentioned even in the requirements section... maybe not as up to date as it should ?

Mac versions are around. However, not ALL games come to Mac so if you want your PC to be your primary gaming platform you're better off sticking to a Windows box. 
Hah! Well Cuss Mah Snobbery!! 
I'll never complain about the speed of Vista again!

Still, thinking about it, if Mac games are so poorly advertised then its no wander that the ignorant masses such as myself still think that Macs are for n00bs!

Weird analogy: A friend of mine comes into a Spanish restaurant with a group of people and says when ordering the food that she's allergic to GARLIC (a mac user);
This limits her to, hmmm, NOTHING from the menu, the chef has to cook her a plain, un-seasoned chicken breast fillet!! (true story, crap analogy) 
There Was An Interview With Gabe Newell Or Someone Somewhere 
Where they said Valve had tried to approach Apple with some suggestions on how to make the mac a better development platform for games, but the impression they got was that Apple just didn't care very much about gaming. 
I know that in Germany, some customer defense organization, in order piss off Microsoft (cause of Vista's poor performances with standard PC) adviced people to systematically ask to re-install XP instead of Vista.

Also, in France, a free XP CD is provided with each new PC with Vista already installed...

And in my company, after some discussions with ITs, we are far away to switch to Vista...

Except the nice visual effects of Vista, what are the benefits to install it compared to XP ? Nothing ! It consumes more memory, needs more performances, for not a significant result.. so.. fuck Vista ! 
But vista is a prerequisite if you have anything at all to do with microsoft, including xbox. If you don't support it then you fail approval.

It's a shitty operating system but microsoft have allot of money, so they'll keep pushing it. 
That's why god invented Apple and OSX. :P

Note that the only reason Apple doesn't (seem to) hinder the performance of OSX is that much of its userbase is too technically-minded -- we'll actually notice. Last I checked, the company is concerned with making profits, which is definitely helped along by irrational fanboyz everywhere. Note that they do sneak certain things through under their own version of "don't be evil" (e.g. iPod encryption of your songs so that you can't easily use it to transfer music to your buddies). 
I Thought Macs Were Mostly Bought By Queers Who Want To Look Cool 
while drinking their moccha latte caramel lattice cumshots. 
Those And Artists 
So Basicly Just One Group 
ROFL :D !!! ! ! 
Yeah, that idea had entered my head too...
To be fair, Macs look like they have a pretty nice interface nowadays. And they do operate pretty fast from what I've seen.

Sony - same fucking thing as what inertia was saying about i-tunes. PSPs for starters. My girlfriend has one I bought her for christmas 2 years ago. They will play mp3 files out of the box. And they recognise wma's but you can play a wma on your psp without first going online. Sony mp3 players - these fuckers wont just work on a normal USB cable, you need a special cable and I think there are file compatibility issues there also...

These things piss me off. You ever buy a sony CD recently. I was ripping my girfriends J-Lo CD onto the computer for HER, and you put the disk in the drive and it runs "SONY GENERIC MP3 MEGA SHIT SUITE V10.1000" and wont just let you at the songs...

"I Thought Macs Were Mostly Bought By Queers Who Want To Look Cool while drinking their moccha latte caramel lattice cumshots."

Yes, yes, and PCs are bought by ignorant cattle who don't know any better. :)

And iPods can play any MP3 you choose to load onto them. The only songs that get encrypted/DMA'd are ones you buy through the iTunes store.

"To be fair, Macs look like they have a pretty nice interface nowadays. And they do operate pretty fast from what I've seen. "

Hey, I'll go on record as saying that my Macbook Pro is the best laptop I have ever owned. Ever. It's amazing and I LOVE using it. 
But Inertia 
how can you use a mac? Even the cursor movement is jerky. I used some mac where the whole system was built into a flat panel display for about 5 minutes in 2005 or so. It felt unacceptable for my then QW heightened senses.

A friend of mine bought a macbook in August and the HD broke down completely in September. They probably use generic parts anyway just with a queer packaging. He didn't get any data or even the wreck back, who knows where they sent his HD. But otherwise he seemed happy and worked well with it, edited video etc.

I don't like Vista either. 
Macs Are Pretty Cool. 
Christ - Were Going Round In Circles Here! 
I am cattle. Safety in numbers. We fear change. I want to play F.E.A.R. on my PC when I gettit. Bet theres no Mac version of that game, huh?!?!

A friend of mine uses his mac mostly for mixing music, and he swears by it!

How many companies manufacture Mac-intended machines? Is it just Apple? Can you install an OSX OS on any PC? Im not very clued up about the world of the apple!! 
Jerky cursors? Really? This thread is bottoming out fast. :) Sorry all! 
Yes Really 
I had a jerky cursor dem00n yesterday on my PC, and that was a Microsoft wireless mouse problem, nothing to do with fucking Windows...

As for this thread - how many posts are people who havent logged on for the last 4-5 hours gonna have on their GA thread??!?

It's a matter of personal taste at the end of the day! 
Steve Jobs Tastes Of Kimchi 

I guess what I was saying was that a jerky mouse cursor means nothing and is that's what the debate has devolved too, it's fair to call it a train wreck at this point.

My PC has had a jerky mouse cursor on many occasions - often when doing something really stressful to the system like checking my email. It doesn't mean that Windows performs poorly overall, it just means the system was busy.

My mouse movement on my Macbook Pro is smooth as silk.

In other words, it's a meaningless yardstick to try to measure with. 
Ye gods, excuse the spelling and grammar in that post. I'm clearly done here. 
Your Work Is Not Yet Done: 
3rd para, #13501 ?

Also, czg, what is kimchi? 

"How many companies manufacture Mac-intended machines? Is it just Apple? Can you install an OSX OS on any PC? Im not very clued up about the world of the apple!!"

It's mainly Apple making Apple hardware although you can use third party stuff like external hard drives and cameras without a problem.

As for OSX, I've heard that you can run it on PC machines but it requires some hackery. I don't know why someone would want to run OSX on a non-Apple machine but so be it. Heh. 
It Was Not A System Load 
but it seemed like a design parameter. Make the mouse update at a lousy rate to save some cycles somewhere. (Or then something was bugging? But it was constant - it was never smooth for one microsecond.) Bad first impression for me. Most people wouldn't notice anything of course.

Of course, it's probably fixed nowadays. I'm just telling my only experience from an average (or even high end?) mac from this century.
If they're so much more expensive than PC:s, they should not be worse in basic features.

I use the 500 Hz usb mouse patch at home anyway, I don't know if something like that is available for MacOS. There is for Linux.

Anyway, this discussion isn't leading anywhere. It's not a serious matter anyway, just a story. 
...apart from my first Mac (which was basically given to me) it's always been a cost verses functionality equation for me. In the southern part of Australia at least, PCs are just too damned cheap in comparison. I'd love to have one of each (PC for gaming and Mac for the recording/production side of things) but... 
Mouse Accel 
Mouse accel in OSX sucks complete sucking-shit-down-your-throat ass. I have a little shareware thing called SteerMouse that I use to turn off mouse acceleration. Steve Jobs is so fucking good at cleaning vaginas that he refuses to make changing the UI even mildly possible from the standpoint of the common end-user. If I could be arsed I would write a program to make the mouse accel changes, but why should I have to? And how do I know I won't break something?

OSX is basically just Windows without all the stupid shit, with UNIX underneath. Closed-source software AND closed-source hardware is just fucking great. OSX is nice to use but fuck if I will use a proprietary OS again. 
heh, I was just about to mention SteerMouse too. I have to use a mac at work and this utility is the only reason i'm still sane. 
Mac/PC Stuff 
I'm pretty impartial in the Mac VS PC thing. For me, the draw with apple is mainly the quality of their own software. Pretty hardware is nice, especially fitting that hardware into impossibly small spaces, but from an economics point of view it doesn't make sense unless you have the money to spend on that.

I love the stability of the OS X platform, and apple write great software, be it consumer stuff like iTunes, iPhoto, Keynote, Mail, iMovie, or pro stuff like the whole Final Cut Studio suite.

I think if money is no object, than a Mac Pro tower is ideal for digital content creation. It's one of the most tried and tested 8-core systems out there, and is solid as a rock.

On the downside, if you're looking for value for money, I could put together a system that could outperform a �800 iMac (the cheapest one) for hundreds of pounds less, and I could reuse most of those components in the future.

The obvious criticism has always been the relative lack of software of course. It all depends what you're doing with your computer of course. Personally, I'm doing a computer science degree, and I dabble in custom game content, digital music-making and so on, and OS X really can't beat a PC dual-booting XP and ubuntu.

For video editing on the other hand, macs are really really the way forward, although I don't know when you get to �10,000 upwards workstations, there might be better options. I can edit 30gig movie projects, with the latest version of Final Cut Pro, on a 700mhz, 6 year old table-lamp iMac with 512mb of ram. It's ridiculous, and it has never crashed.

I can't defend apple mice however. They suck so very much. Of course, nothing is stopping you from upgrading it. That, plus some pointer acceleration jiggery-pokery and you're doing ok. 
"Mouse accel in OSX sucks complete sucking-shit-down-your-throat ass. I have a little shareware thing called SteerMouse that I use to turn off mouse acceleration. Steve Jobs is so fucking good at cleaning vaginas that he refuses to make changing the UI even mildly possible from the standpoint of the common end-user. If I could be arsed I would write a program to make the mouse accel changes, but why should I have to? And how do I know I won't break something? "

Why not just use it the way Apple designed it and leave your Windows-based habits at the door? I'm not attacking you here. I'm just saying that, yes, I found it weird at first too but you DO get used to it and after a time you don't even notice it anymore.

I fooled around with SteerMouse and some other "solutions" until I realized that there really wasn't a problem to begin with. It's just different.

It's a different operating system. Accept that some things are going to be different and that you may have to change a few habits. 
As far as pricing goes, Macs are a little more expensive than PCs. You don't see Mac people denying this and yet Windows users want to constantly harp on it like it's some major issue.

Macs cost more. And they're worth every penny. 
At any rate, I'm disgusted that I allowed myself to get dragged into this discussion. These are always pointless and nobody ever gives an inch. I apologize to everyone who had to read this. Really sorry!

Let's get back to Quakin'. 
A Level Compiled On PC Has Better Lighting Than One Compiled On A Mac 
It has to do with endian-ness 
Good DAY, sir! 
As a peace offering, if you guys haven't played my Shooter game yet ... here:

It's free and there's even a version for you filthy Windows troglodytes. :P 
Nice Game 
What I'd call another Dodge-em-up, like every extend where the goal is to avoid stuff and worry about the rest of the game afterwards.

Graphically well thought out; black is bad and white is good, the score is in the background. The mouse returning on the opposite side when going outside the window was a nice feature as well. 
WHAT? No LINUX port? 
I always felt the numerous files one has to compile for Nehahra are quite a hassle. Would it be ok if I packaged,, the latest release of aguirRe's nehahra executables (and what else is needed?) into a fresh zip and name it For the Quaddicted archive.

And the small pak0.pak unpacked (as in no-movie) (=ready to go). 
It has to do with endian-ness

wtf endianess has to do with light level ? endianess is generally how bytes ordering, but I can't see what is the issue there: could you elaborate please ? I'm proud of the technical answer.... 
endianess is generally how bytes ordering

please read endianess is generally related to bytes ordering (in a 32 bit word as example...)

Irony: 1 
JPL: 0 
mac grunts look different then pc grunts? 
Half Life: Real Life Consequences 
Full Life Consequences? doh 
i am speechless 
I cannot play quake with mouse accel, it destroys my aim. OSX' mouse accel destroys pixel-perfect accuracy in paint programs. OSX' mouse acceleration neglects over a decade of muscle memory that I've developed to use a no-acceleration mouse interface. Should I change to Steve Jobs' favorite "curve" (actually more like a step function)? Really? :) 
Inertia Made A "Popular Strategy Guide" (As Linked To By Wikipedia) 
At any rate, I'm disgusted that I allowed myself to get dragged into this discussion. These are always pointless and nobody ever gives an inch. I apologize to everyone who had to read this. Really sorry!

Don't worry, those of us that know better skimmed these posts at best (I just skipped a a lot of them, to be honest). 

Oddly, I've never noticed the acceleration when inside of Quake. I think it turns it off automatically (at least the Fruitz of Dojo port does anyway). Or it's my imagination. Or elves. Any one of those will do. 
The Nerd HandBook 
The Nerd Handbook 
Well I Read It, JPL, I Read It All 
and it partly applies to me! Partly. 
Errrr... Blitz's HandBook reference.. or mine ? :P It actually makes a big difference you know... 
I Have Never Read The Whole Bible. 
I did however read the entire article about nerds! I dont really know what Blitz was trying to say with his post. Will there be computers in heaven? Quake mapping? Or maybe the true power of the imagination will be harnessed, out creations only limited by the vividness of our lifes dreams... 
A Map For Your Enjoyment 
Repost For Right Links 
Is It Dm Or Sp 
But please fix the leaks properly instead of boxing the map, align some more textures (or use a different - rivetless - texture on the sides of the beams), let the monsters in front of the GK door move out of the floor instead of having those sky-textured platforms above, sent the map to gibbie for approval.

nitin: SP 
I had a look at your map - played it through - it was pretty fun!! I played on skill 1. I would throw in the following constructive criticism:

Too much ammo! I dont think you needed to put half as much shells in the map. Also for a map with 26 monsters I dont think you need a rocket launcher or a supernailgun. You would get away just fine in this map with a supershotgun, nailgun and a grenade launcher!

Leaking map - I take it that you tried to run vis for this map, and it wouldnt work. What has happened is there is a leak from the inside of the map leading out to the 'void'. Your solution is to make a massive box around the map and hollow it! This allows vis to run, right? I know because that is exactly what I did for all of the maps (except the start map) for my first release 'DejaVu'. Take a look and see!
It is bad practise. You end up with a load of unused space between the outside of the map, and the inside of the surrounding box. This could be described as 'unnecessary lightmaps', or so they tell me ;-P

There is infact a solution though! I dont know if you noticed but when you have run your QBSP program to build the map it will have, at some point, said something like:

"leak found at (co-ordinates) writing to r_666.pts"

This 'pts' file is called a pointfile. Load your map as normal, bring down the console and type 'pointfile' (make sure your pts file is in id1/maps). This will draw a dotted line which will show you where the leak is. If you cant at first see the dotted line, type "gl_clear 1" and 'noclip' outside of the map, and you should see it! Then all you have to do is go back into your editor and adjust the brushes so that the leak has gone. Repeat this process until QBSP finds no leaks.

When you run QBSP there will be a line which says "outleafs 0" or "outleafs whatever" (in the case of the boxed map). This should be a positive number.

For more info, look to the documents at the bottom of this page here, AguirRe's site:

Neg|ke is right about the sky platforms - they dont quite look right.

Apart from that, for a first map its actually pretty good! Some of your brushwork is very impressive, lots of curves and angles, reasonable texturing - impressed by the lighting :D Just a few technical bugs to iron out and you'll be rocking!

I enjoyed playing it, thanks! 
On the SP maps page of, the link to thehand.html is incorrect. It points to thefly.html instead.

There is also a link to thefly directly above it too which incidentally was an inspired level IMHO, love the bit where it looks like your walking on the wall!

Is That The Level By Markus Klar? 
I played Februus depth earlier on this week too. I didnt make it to the end cause I was in a hurry, maybe about 4/5ths through! That is a cool map czg. I love the way that it manages to have parts which are very open but seem enclosed. Your calculations of monster line of sight is cool too. You would often hear a monster before you would see it. And they are positioned so that they come at you from different angles, and see you before you see them. Your vis-blocking is very clever too! Do you still map for Q1 these days? 
Only To Never Release Anything Out Of Spite 
Out Of Spite For What, Exactly? 
Fill me in on the history here.
I mean, christ, I know things can get a bit warm around here from time to time. It reminds me of my first band. We were all very creative, and wanted to play original music, and naturally it caused friction.
I remember Lunaran telling me that, basically, he found Sickbase offensive. I didnt like that! That kinda why I made the Hand. Refuse to be beaten! Daft though - I made Sickbase in spite of the people who said that DejaVu was too short and too easy!

People said theHand was OK, and I seem to be finding it harder to come up with ideas for my new map. Weird huh?

You confuse me though. You can be very helpfull on the technical threads, but very sinnical on other threads, and you rarely post about other peoples maps. Yet you obviously find Func a worthy read...

Dark Horse!! 
Czg Is A Complicated Person, RickyT23... 
...we are all complicated. 
You just have to keep in mind that it is impossible to please everybody here ;)
you also have to keep in mind nobody is fair here... particlarly czg who hates evrybody, even himself :D 
Will there be computers in heaven? Quake mapping? Or maybe the true power of the imagination will be harnessed, out creations only limited by the vividness of our lifes dreams...

I hear they cut your daemon away.

rutger: Not bad the map, here's my few cents.

- too much ammo (much)
- health should be more evenly distributed
- more variety in monsters needed
- RL and shaft, probably even SNG not needed
- source your light - use torches/lamps etc.
- sometimes it's a bit crampy
- theming was good, consistent

Playtesting would help a lot. Send your map privately to some other mapper, or a known good playtester such as sielwolf.

Make the next one soon plz :-) 
that was me. 
You confuse me though. You can be very helpfull on the technical threads, but very sinnical on other threads, and you rarely post about other peoples maps. Yet you obviously find Func a worthy read...

Sincerity is an eyesore (but then again, so is my pimply ass). 
"But Please Fix The Leaks Properly Instead Of Boxing The Map" 
But... that is the dutch way! (sorry dino satellite boy for never forgetting this) 
Insert New Post Here 
Wait Wait Wait 
Did I come across as a cynical, disinterested but elite respectable lurker enough? Kinda like what a Vore would be, if it could talk? Kinda like what what Anton Chigurgh would be like, if he was a message-board-poster and not an evil killer, but if he also cared what people thought of him by making comments online?

k let discussion begin 
Would Have Been Better If You're Last Line Read 
call it friendo 
Maybe I Should Rename Myself To #~# 
just to fit in 
Did anyone ever realize the biosuit slows down lava burn? 
Reminds me of what would be a cool mod feature trigger_hurt environmental spawnflag - if the player has biosuit they take no damage.

Might have to take a look at the slower lava burn, but seeing as I've been mapping and playing the game for years and never seen noticed that it might be awkward getting players to realise it, though I spose a message solves that. 
Biosuit Vs Lava 
yes I have realised it while playtesting my first map (Coma). I had to redesign the level a bit, otherwise the player could escape a deadly trap with the use of the biosuit. Without it he just has to die (no that he wasn't warned :). 
Yeah, I Knew About It A Long Time 
But because you never see a biosuit and lava in the same map on any ID1 level, you'd never know this. Quoting from the Quake manual: "Biosuit: Lets you breathe underwater and swim through slime without harm. Does not protect against lava." 
Yeah, i first discovered that when playing Prodigy 4, which requires you to swim through some lava to proceed, and gives you a biosuit to accomplish this.

Reminds me, i should replay Prodigy SE. 
Prodigy SE 
Yeah, I was just thinking of that. Problem was, no player could have been expected to know that biosuits half protected you from lava, given the aforementioned manual quote and distribution throughout the id maps, and Casali did nothing to inform the player either. Twat.

I found out about the biosuit lava sort-of-protection from necros, when we were working on the cross of deflection. Glad I made the decision not to include any in Contract.

The biosuit has some additional benefits in quoth2 btw. We will be telling you about them though, cause we don't treat our players like idiots ;) 
Yeah, I was just thinking of that. Problem was, no player could have been expected to know that biosuits half protected you from lava, given the aforementioned manual quote and distribution throughout the id maps, and Casali did nothing to inform the player either. Twat.

LOL. A fair point, Kell. 
The, erm, umlouts (?) are working now (a "o" with two small dots above)

So thanks for that!! 
...i didn't actually do anything :P 
I always find that to be the best way to actually get something done. 
Kinda Like 
when you have somethng to compute that takes a while (say, years), it's actually faster to wait two years (and use the hw available then) until you start the computation. 
Not Really 
since you can throw such a computation into a black hole and get the results of an infinite time computation back in finite time; to retrieve the results you need only to read the planck-scale symbols that are encoded on to the surface of the black hole. 
Theyre Not Working Again...... 
...are you sure your not just messing with my head?
(like you'd all tell me if you were)
Having said that, I see no obvious motive 
Wooden Computing

Watch the video: it is awesome :) 
That Is Very Cool 
Same Principle As Z1 
the first ever created computer - by konrad zuse,
in 1936 in berlin, with mechanical transistors. 
For Anyone Here 
That missed 'Pirate baby's Cabana Battle Street Fight 2006' as I apparantly did: 
snap so needs to die. 
Pirate Baby 
I hadn't seen that either, wow that looked like a lot of work. Pretty cool though, the special moves are what made it great... I'd play anything that let me summon up a monster truck, a guy that shoots dead naked girls out of a huge gun, john goodman's character from the big lebowski and a fridge. 
His name is Walter Sobchak, but you can't summon him on the Shabbos. he doesn't roll on the Shabbos. 
Arnie + Pals from Predator 1 as well. 
Haha, that's the one. I need to rewatch that asap, great film. 
What's the texture theme from Crypt of Decay, Underearth, and most of Ebon Fortress called?

Or does it have no label, since nobody ever uses it ;-)

I'm just wondering, since there are idbase, runic, copper aka windtunnels, elder world... what's this? 

This looks like a proper Half-Life mod for a change. They are looking for mappers btw. 
There is an description update at Quaddicted but the database times out at the moment. The site is being moved to a server with PHP5, that's why. Should be fine tomorrow, the DNS might take a while to propagate. 
first post on the new server. 
So it seems to be working again now? Thats a good relief, I can go and rant about my new computer and all of its shortcomings and good points over on the hardware thread.... 
Pages load DAMN fast thats for sure :)

The new machine is a real beast. Glad everything went well. 
Working Well Here 
Really fast. 
Congratulations! If you can read this message, this means your DNS has updated and you are on the new server. Please let me know if anything isn't working normally. -metlslime 
argh! Can you tell me what you were doing when you saw that error? 
yes is much faster and everything is perfect for now! 
Looks like it was worth getting the new server. :) 
Just Trying To Bring Back Some Nostalgia 
Don't worry, it works fine. For now. 
Can I have a copy please, with whatever documentation is in place? 
Phoenix - Arizona 
Is there anybody living in this area ? 
...I believe full release is mere days away, so it's probably just as well to sit tight. The final version is very different from the "working" copies that were floating around. 
Oh, Damn. 
So there's gonna be a Base Pack after all? 
ricky, check your mail. 
To Badly Mangle Descartes... 
...many of the beliefs of my youth have proved to be false...

So please don't think I'm trying to indicate an actual release date :) 
2d Physics Game 
You may have already seen and played this already, but I came across a fantastic 2d physics sandbox game over here ->

You can draw your own shapes in 2d using the mouse and then give them physical properties, you can also make things like springs, water, motors and all sorts of other things, your mind is the limiting factor :)

Check out the youtube video -> 

is the link I was trying to get in there, maybe a mod can fix that up? :) 
Nice find !! I have to test Phun now ! 
Looks Like PHUN 
I may have to try that out this weekend. 
*(holding Breath For Quoth 2)* 
(starting to go blue around the lips and tongue)

Madfox - Thanks s lot for that, BTW!!! 
Doom Chainsaw Mod 
Hehe. Now THAT Is Cruel And Inhuman 
Anyone remember the chook launcher mod btw? 
you're welcom. 
LOL, Than 
Move over BFG, here comes the RR! 
Heeehehehehe-wha-hahahahaha etc (ROFL) !!! 
Please kill yourself. 

but... what's the deal with the rick roll stuff? i never got that 
I really wasn't expecting to get rick roll'd then. 
Please go and listen to the Pet Shop Boys. 
2 New Reviews At My Site: 
Forwards Compatible
Zerstorer turtle map Pack 
14 points used to be a "good attempt" rating a few years back. Now, in the past-marcher past-warpspasm age, it's a "good map" rating.

It's a bit unfair towards newer maps. I thought Kell's map could also have scored higher.

underworldfan nice work 
Aliens: Colonial Marine 
Its not much, but here are some scans from a US gaming magazine of the up ans coming Gearbox title:

I know they arent the best quality of pictures, but they're real atleast!!!

QME Abandonware... 
..anyone have it & care to share? it appears i forgot to save the setup file last time before formatting :-/

it used to be downloadable from filefront but seems to have disappeared. 
Aliens Thingy 
are those pictures just concept art? I like the way it's going. 
I love Tiddles! 
Portal Vs. Passage

The article is overly simplistic in it's reasoning but if you also read the comments I think it provides some good food for thought. 
Thank You! 
*site bookmarked* 
interesting topic, but the guy's argument is pretty worthless. He grades Passage based on the experience of playing it, but grades Portal based on cherry-picked anecdotes about the development process. If creator intent makes art, why does he say nothing about the intent behind Passage? If player experience defines art, why nothing about the experience of playing Portal? 
site doesn't work. (dns failure) 
Yes The Guy's Argument Is Pretty Lame 
but it's the discussion in the comments that's most interesting (which might not have been the case with a less provocative article...)

The "game medium" can be so very many different things and still almost all just stomp around the safe already treaded ground which is why passage is important and there needs to be more discussions like these. 
UWF & Tronyn, 
Thanks for the review. I'm glad you like it. 
okay, a couple of the comments were definitely worth reading. 

Even though I have little interest in actually wasting my time solving these, they look cool and there's some theory behind it. 
They Look Very Cool 
but yeah, I never saw the fun in trying to do mazes, it's just like being lost, so frustrating. 
All Seems Quiet ATM: 
Weird how so far very little has happened in '08 with Q1SP.

Is this because everyone is frantically working on stuff and so far nothing has been finished/showcased?

I personally started a new map at around the second week of January. Posted a few screenies a while back now. So im about 5.5 weeks into the build, and I can tell you that the world stuff of my map is about 69% done. I can be so specific because I've used about 22000 of 32000 possible marksurfaces. I'm hoping this will be the first limit I hit, cause my intention is to maximize on detail level in the map, but still have a map which will run in FitzQuake. My concept is quite doomish: more high-end enemies and high-end weapons in a dark underground sort of base-style environment, lots of tunnels/pipes and stuff. Give me a couple more weeks and I'll be needing some testers.

Anyone else wanna give an update? 
Indeed working on a new project... and waiting for Quoth2 :D 
I'm working on a little mod and it's almost done. Juat have one more section of the map to build out. 
It's Because Quake Is Dead. 
Don't feel forced to max out any limits. Quality is not defined by that.
Also, first make sure the map itself works nicely THEN think about details and the limits.
That's the thing that always gets me quit or do sucky work, focusing on the details instead of the "real thing". 
I agree. I've become a huge advocate of shelling the map first and adding detail in later. Use larger building blocks that compile quickly and get your gameplay and VIS blocking set up first. Once the map is playable, monsters and all, then go back and start making it look pretty. 
Interesting Points Guys... 
Dont take my statistical analysis as any kind of indication of gameplay (!?)

Its just literally my intention to make this map as detailed as possible. I mean as physically possible. It wont be as big as possible. Im at 29 lightmaps. It wony have as many enemies as I can cram in either. I'll be happy if I can run it in IDSoftware GlQuake, or even software Quake.

The layout of the map has had a lot of thought put into it, it interlocks, there are many places you will be able to see but not access until later on, I have focused on trying to vary the direction of combat i.e not always from the front or nasty spawning at the rear, but more attacks from either side, or the side and the front etc...

I dunno, plenty time for testing etc! 
Quake Is Dead. 
..Because czg is dead. On the inside :( 
I'm Still 
Remaking Ep3, with a collection of six betas ranging from crappy to not as crappy. Will finish in maybe six months. 
Moi Aussi.. 
i don't know if anyone remembers it but i'm still working on the episode i posted about here:

..slowly. i'm starting to think i was underestimating a little with the completion time :P

i have a few more new screenshots as well & am working on a proper site, finding decent free hosting is a pain in the ass, though 
Still Working On Orlmap Series 2 
But I'm inclined to scrap the first 4 levels since they no longer represent the quality of my maps as of now.

It would make the pack shorter, but I think it's the right decision. 
but I can't find the logic runthrough in diverse intersections. Still puzling. 
you could release the 4 maps as a mini-episode, using a fake name so nobody knows it's you! 
They were kind of already released, as the first half. Now they are no longer the first half, of anything. 
oh i see... so not really scrapping them, just making a clean break from the past. 
You could say that. I don't like them anymore anyway. 
...gutsy effort, I applaud you!

I've got a little number in beta at the mo', Siewolf has already got me rethinking some gameplay and func_ use.

It's all about atmosfear baby... 
There'll be a fair few maps in a while then.

Wierd when you think how old the game is, and there's all of us still keeping it alive. 
Meh, Quake Is So Old And Boring 
Everyone is going to the mall these days: 
...really wanna look at your shots on the thread you linked to at #13651 but the links arent working for me :-(

Mediafire seem pretty good for hosting.

Hehe - I like screenshots! :D

Also - never scrap stuff unless you think its REALLY SHIT. The guy who strives really hard to get everything perfect never gets anything done because nothing is ever perfect.

Just a thought. Let the crucifiction begin...

Oh yeah, and czg - Quake isnt dead. It was never alive. Its a computergame. You thought you were in denial all of this time that Quake was dead, when now you are in denial that it is still 'alive'. Metaphorically speaking. 
Garfield - Grafield 
what if you removed garfield, odie and the guy from the strip? I think it would be better with every removal iteration (and it would still suck). 
we dont have malls over here in england. We all go to the pub! 
Quake Dead? 
I hear the real Quake 2 comes out soon, thanks to Kell and team. Let's not talk about the infamous Base Pack, or Quake RMX.

Dead? Yar har har. 
Sorry bambuz, next time I'll just remove the post .

Le go fuck yourself. 
...really wanna look at your shots on the thread you linked to at #13651 but the links arent working for me :-(

i guess that proves my point about free hosting! :P

i'll check mediafire out, want to get a few more newer shots together before re-uploading though. and no way in hell is any of it getting scrapped, i've spent far too many hours of my life on it for that! 
RickyT23 look in beta thread for my reply for maps in the works. 
Shouldn't you be out in the streets, unshaven and dirty, holding up a cardboard sign? 
That is funny! 
Half-Life 2 
I still have a free gift of Half-Life 2 on steam for anyone here that wants it, just let me know! 
Pick Me ! 
HL2SP: The Citizen

A very nice HL2city-themed custom SP campaign with 15 maps, fairly good voice acting and 15 secrets/easter eggs - finding them all unlocks some additonal stuff at the end (I found 13/15 in the first run). Approximate playing time 3-4 hours. 
Looks pretty cool, will have to try it.

Still waiting for They Hunger, though. 
Bump/normal Maps In Ogre Engine 
has anyone used the ogre engine here?

i've been trying to get normal maps to work in there but it's a lot more complex than doing it for say Doom3. apprently, ogre doesn't have normal map shaders built in and i don't really know how to write any sort of shader. i would guess i'd need to do it in CG, but beyond that, i get totally lost.

is there some kind of tutorial on how to write the shader and hook it in so i can call it with my materials? 
Map Change Confirmation 
This is a very simple Quake question that hopefully everyone can answer.

If your playing a deathmatch map and there is no trigger_changelevel on the map anywhere, when the match ends is it supposed to reload the same map you were just on, or does it warp to the start map? 
Depends On Server Config 
I assume you mean quakeworld.
People use ktpro or ktx (progs) usually on mvdsv (server executable) I think.

FFA servers have map rotation (time or fraglimit) and on 1on1, 2on2 and 4on4 servers it goes back to same map (usually timelimit) to prematch mode where you can change map by simply typing the map's name (over half of the players present have to agree to change the map). And you can change other settings like time/fraglimit, game type (deathmatch mode, instagib, midair etc...) 
Oh And Of Course 
trigger_changelevels are disabled in the progs I think during DM games, although there was a rare very weird bug in some old ktpro where one player became invulnerable during game when touching the trigger_changelevel with certain criteria. (Was it during prematch and the first player? Don't remember) I think this was in e2m2 at least (Dunno if id forgot to flag the end tele to only in sp.) 
The game Spirit posted on other PC games thread (Flipside) appears to have normal mapping - maybe you could email them on how they did it. 
That was made in Ogre. 
Actually, I'm talking of netquake. And not any server in particular, just vanilla deathmatch using the standard progs. Nice info though :) 
Flipside is a Source mod, and it doesn't seem to have normalmapped assets. 
Flipside Of The Divine? 
Do You Mean Portalized?

That's the open-source port of Portal made in Ogre3d 
That's Got Normalmapping All Right 
shame the game still looks pretty hideous though. 
Plays Good Though 
Oh, Sorry 
I thought you meant

My mistake. 
Hadn't Seen That 
Looks interesting; will have to give it a look.

I've seen another game named nearly the same as well, posted here - the world is black and white and hollow space is defined by how you flip the world vertically - so empty is either black or white, but not both. 
Weird Bug In AguirRe's GlQuake... ?

Weird particles on my screen, these stayed static on the screen i.e. like the hud. After a while they seemed to slowly dissipate.

Might this be to do with new ATI drivers I installed? 
That is most likely a driver issue. Or your graphics card is dying. 
ATI Drivers Suck Indeed 
many people (including me) have crashes and errors in the windows logs with the new drivers, solution is to use catalyst 7.6 which are nearly a year old... 
I've learned quite a few things about crappy drivers from Nvidia, ATI and Dell over the past several months because of my own experiences, including the one you mention. I have to wonder how much this has caused a dampening of sales within the PC game industry as people say, 'screw it, I'm going console.' 
In Dell's Case 
Not a driver, but a Bios and memory exchange problem. 
Just a thought, have you got Teamshambler backed up anywhere on the net? Cos my guess is gamespy are gonna nuke it at some point...

Just a thought, and I dunno why I thought of it! 
I Remember When PlanetQuake Was Really Good! 
Now-a-days though, it sucks. Its had to find anything on it, and fileplanet can be a realy pain. All the broken links man. It just sucks!! 
should just violently cannibalize Planet Quake and cut out the horrible Quake 4 section.

With A Non-anti-aliased Chainsaw 
Lunaran In Map Source Release Shocker 
Lun3DMs 1-4, plus that old Quake2 map that Pauk gave a B+ at MPQ, are now open freakin' source:

Enjoy. Sure hope this doesn't bite me in the ass! 
Oh And 
I included working versions as well - each map that had one includes the original roughed-in version(s). 
Hey, Weird Question 
I've got to put together a CD that will be sent out to a load of people that went to a conference, and the CD is supposed to contain a load of .pdfs (abstracts for papers) that can be viewed through an interactive menu by Title/Author/how-boring-it-is/etc. Also it might be nice to have a search function in it.

What's the best way of doing this? It needs to run on macs and windows... Macromedia Director sprung to mind, but I researched it a bit and it doesn't look too hot. Someone said you could actually do it in flash, is that really true? I'm basically looking for the easy way out! Cheers for your help again. 
I have seen similar stuff done in Flash. Now that it is a part of the Adobe family, it should be a cinch. 
you can make a title pdf and link from that to the rest, though I don't know how to auto-open it on insertion. (Could you add a "start title.pdf" to autorun.inf and include acrobat reader / foxit / gpdf whatever exist for diff platforms? I dunno.) 
Dont web browsers support pdf? Use Frames!!! 
You Make Me Cry 
Well Why Over Complitate Something? 
Yeah I have. I should probably back up the back ups tho. 
#13706 Posted By Czg []

omg, he IS in my imagination only. 
Right I'm Off To Check Out Vietnam And Cambdoia For The Next 3 Weeks 
I expect map releases when I return :) 
We expect you never to return.

I think we'll both be disappointed. 
ATI Sucks Like A Hoover (pt. 2) 
so even with the "recommended" drivers 7.6 there are still hard crashes, i.e. on maps with corrupted brush entities, where the engine would normally just abort. Time for a nVidia I guess. 
Modified Drivers 
Try the modified ATI/Nvidia drivers from

The lastest one is based on Catalyst 7.3. I'm positively suprised about the difference in performance: Before, I couldn't get Gothic3 and Stalker to run properly with my new card and all standard drivers I tested. They were unplayable - stuttering like hell, even on the lowest possible setting. With the NGO drivers, however, they run smoothly on max settings with no apparent problems so far. 
Thanks, I�ll give those drivers a go. 
New Compo 
Spd, voodoo, Zwiffle. Is it going to happen? Theme? 
Last Thing 
I heard about the compo was that spd said vondur suggested a "pyramid/ziggurat" theme.

Don't think anything's set in stone atm. 
if you're curious where that 10 worst maps thread went, when i realized it wasn't posted by ijed, i killed it. It turns out ijed isn't a skinny art goth afterall. 
There Was A Worst Maps Thread? 
Metslime: ?

Scampie: Yeah, it was pretty bad. The maps it mentioned were ok. 
My histroy tells it was "planetjed". Fair enough. 
was a former quake 2 mapper and used to review for cranky steve's haunted whorehouse on somethingawful. at least i'm pretty sure it's the same one; the obnoxious tone in his writing style is pretty recognisable 
Not The Same 
This one was female.

I remember Jed's Q2 map Light for the Awakening mod; that was a great ikbase map. 
Darkplaces - Grrrrrr ! ! ! 
I wouldnt really want to put this in one of the other threads, but why wont Darkplaces show my doors!!?!?! Most of them are 8 units thick. Works fine in FitzQuake. 
if we're still mulling this, might I suggest "combine two disparate texture sets," with the corollary that a map that's half id/ikbase be deemed a cop-out because otherwise that's what everyone will do. 
IKbase Looks Sexy With Everything, It's Kinda Creepy Actually. 
/me Googles 'disparate' 
I think we had a speedmap session reminiscent of that theme, which I thought was a lot of fun. I wouldn't mind doing something like that hybrid-theme map. I also remember doing an egypt-tech map, half egypt and half base. That was fun too.

I would prefer Quoth 2 as a requirement, since it's so awesome and stuff. But Kellcros would have to weigh in on that I think. 
Is quite an interesting theme to work with, me and Tronyn touched the surface of this with TNJ but it can be taken much further I think, the IKbase lights go very well with the egypty style textures from the mission packs. 
Hai Kell 
It seems your skybox links are down. Specifically the Bloodline one. Any reason why? Just wondering, since I wanted to use that one for a qonquer map. 
There aren't any single skybox downloads any more, just a compilation pack downloaded from the main skybox page:

Yeah, I should get rid of those dead links :/ 
it's all about picking a ridiculous matchup of themes that doesn't really go together and trying really hard to make it work. What wouldn't work? Koohoo meets efdm12? IKBlue meets rubicon? Doom3 meets egypt? Actually Koohoo/efdm12 sounds pretty cool. 
I Saw 
I saw a license plate today that said PJW-A55 
Blitz Wins The Thread 
General Abuse has been closed by a moderator. 
I wish I could say "Yeah, that's me." and I'm slightly sad that I can't. 
I'm slightly sad that I can't.

Don't worry PJW, we all know you're an A55 anyway. 
Shouldn't It Be PJW-AA5? 
Excuse Me, Sir 
You can only expect so much outta humble folk, sir, you gotta explain these jokes for us street people 
Lol Czg 
It would have been too perfect if it was PJW-AA5.

Still, PJW-A55 is awesome. Wait, that didn't come out right... 
Congrats PJW 
You've pulled! I'm sure fribbles is a very modern man... 
I Got It, I Got It !! 
AFAIK aas-files are bot navigation files in the q3 engine. Do I get a cookie now ? Please ? 
No That's The Joke Everyone Else Already Made 
hint: pjw is also known as 'aas bandit' on other forums 
Does anyone have the Quake shareware CD with the music on it? If so, could you please check if the license on it permits copying? 
I don't think you get shareware version on CD.
AFAIR the text upon completion of the shareware version stated that only the registered version had the 10 audio tracks by NIN, as a further incentive to purchase. 
Still, PJW-A55 Is Awesome. 
Shhhh. This is too public. 
id sold a CD with the shareware and encrypted full version one could unlock by calling them. I am pretty sure that the soundtrack was on it (and unencrypted of course). That was probably only in the US though. 
This One? 
That one. I might just buy that to check. 
And It Even Has A Name: 
Josephine =D 
Oh... my heart used to skip at the sound of that name... 
Arqon Rocks 
Wow, Megaman 
that dudes douche string is set to hair trigger.
That is GPL source that he is refusing to provide with the executable client, right? 
but, well, he's not 'refusing to provide': if you dig around the forum long enough, you'll eventually find the sources posted by someone else (no idea where he got them from). 
did the entire discussion get deleted? All i see if your question about version control access, with no responses. 
Wow, Even Cheaper 
arQon's original reply was something along the lines of "We give you an excellent client and that's not good enough? waa whine waaah. maybe we should give up on giving you things altogether." 
As It's Posted Here Anyways 
the exact wording was

whine. waaaa. whine.

we give you a massively-improved client, and STILL all you do is bitch and moan.
"you should blah blah blah"? how about "we should just give up doing things for people"?

The sad thing is that i don't really expect another answer anymore :( 
That time of the month for the guy. Your suggestion was perfectly reasonable, but some people automatically see that as an attack.

Strange how the internet not only allows people to be complete arseholes but also seems to make them more insecure. 
Ijed... No 
Every day is 'that time of the month' for arqon. It'd be nice if you were right, but unfortunately that comment is fairly representative of his general disposition... :) 
Another Taster 
eGames: When you look at the modding-scene today, how would you describe it in just three words?
arQon: Bunch of idiots. (note how the omitted smiley is of real significance)

CPM is a great mod, but the guy�s attitude made alot of people (including myself) stop playing. 
That guy is awesome. Seriously. 
He's A Bell 
If he doesn't like modding then nobody's forcing him to continue with his voluntary slavery, check message boards, answer emails etc.

Could be he's chained up in a modding sweatshop though. 
Lol Ijed ! ! ! 
"Could be he's chained up in a modding sweatshop though." 
I Also Love 
He Sounds Like One Of The Goth Kids Off 
South Park. 
Well, I agree with him on the telefrags actually. Ties go to the holder. Anything else is riddled with problems and potential bugs. 
It's Just His Manner 
"He just says it how it is"

Yeah, right, you'd need salt AND lemon if you were on the receiving end of some of those comments. It is funny in a voyeuristic kind of way though. Very funny. Hahahahahaha. HAHAHAH-HAHAHAH HAHAH-HAHAHAHAHAHa ha !!! ! ! !! ! 
Swapping Positions 
Sounds like a neat idea though, but it'd depend on having 2-way teleports - so that there's two exits. 
he's kind of an ass. 
Dear ArQon 
Kill yourself. 
I Just Read 430 New Posts In This Thread 
I have been saving this for a rainy day since I miss #tf (still don't have the interwebs at home) 
Hey Tron 
Get internet at home. 
Where the fuck is Electro? 
We miss you too <3

Now taking collections for the "Get Tron Some Internets At Home" fund 
Colored Lighting Or Interpolation 
If you had to choose, which would you choose? 
A Better Engine Which Does Both 
The Only One Which I Think Cuts The Mustard Is 
JoeQuake - and you still have to manually load the skybox (grrrr)

When might we see interpolation in FitzQuake ? (nudge) 
Use Fitzhack 
Fitzhack !?!?! 
Eyebrows raised . . . 
OK I Have Found Fitzhack 
This is like the best kept secret in Quake. I've never heard of it. Google will find me the file on shub-hub, and one reference from the Zerstorer TM thread, and thats it!

Absolutely no documentation at all.

And I cant tell if it's interpolating the animations or not! 
"And I cant tell if it's interpolating the animations or not!"

It certainly sounds a worthwhile feature then. 
oh, we're talking about Quake engines? GLQuake is all you need. 
So Next Time Someone Says 
"I wouldnt use FitzQuake because although it is really stable, fast, has coloured lighting, supports external textures etc etc etc, it has not interpolation so it SUX"

I can tell them to go forth and multiply. Or use FitzHack !

Depends What You Need It For, Scampie 
Fitzhack is a hack and buggy (wasn't it?).
Joequake or Qrack seem like a good choice until Fitzquake with interpolation is released.
And doesn't aguirRe's glquake support both too? That would make it first choice of course. 
AguirRe's Fantastic Engine 
supports Skyboxes and Interpolation but NO LITFILES.

Which is a shame, cause apart from that I love it!

Qrack is great but it wont let me adjust mouse speed (or was that Telejano) ?

I settle for FitzQuake. I barely notice the lack of interpolation. It feels quakey for not having it! 
I wrote fitzhack, and it's a hack in the sense that it's unofficial and the code files are not clean as they could be. But the interpolation code is writen exactly how you'd expect interpolation code, that much of it is solid. In order to get it to work I had to revert a few things that metlslime had change about the way frames are loaded in the code, but I don't think they affect performance adversely, it's about how neat the code is. So that's the level of hack we're talking about.

There is one big known bug, but it's entirely unrelated to interpolation. At the same time I was testing code to create a monsterclip entity in quake. This bit of code works, but it uses an existing entity field(flags) for the property. In zerstorer, this field is used for something different, and so entities end up blocking monsters but nothing else. This is most apparent in zer's start map, where the solid platform over the blood becomes noclip to players. I could recompile fitzhack without this code if there was demand for it, to tide people over until the new official fitzquake engine... 
What do you need Quake to do that it doesn't?

If the answer is 'look pretty', use a proper, modern engine. 
And To Avoid Confusion... 
by 'modern engine' I mean, Unreal3 or HL2 
But Scampie Dear - GLQuake Looks Horrible 
(let's keep having the same discussions over and over again!) 
oh, we're talking about Quake engines? aguirRe's GLQuake is all you need

fixed ;)

esentially glquake that runs (and loads) MUCH faster with massively increased limits that will run just about anything you can throw at it. can't really argue with that

whilst the arguments against the way glq looks are somewhat justified, if i was that obsessed with visuals i probably wouldn't still be into quake :p 
oh, we're talking about Quake engines? aguirRe's GLQuake is all you need

Couldn't agree more. To me, Quake looks best without all the fancy new graphics that modern games have.

Fitzquake is nice as well, that's my runner-up engine. 
Quake is big chunky pixels and white lighting. Deal with it! :) 
AguirRe's Nehquake! 
Preach: yes, please. 
sheltered pieces of of petrifitzed metlslime... 
out of toppic. 
Yeah, Glquake Is Great... 
as long as you never go swimming, and you don't mind flattened lighting, or missing fullbrights, or upside-down sprites, or the fact that only 1 of 5 sprite orientations is supported, or the poor water surface animation, or the pink edges on sprites and menu items, bad resampling of non-power-of-two images, setting your gamma in the video card control panel before and after each session, texture cache mismatch errors, or the inability to select video modes past the first 30 listed by the driver. 
I Guess.. 
..i forgot to add 'with plenty of bugfixes' to my last post ;) 
ZTNDM5 Ut3 Version

Visuals are fairly basic but the layout is true to the original, worth checking out if your a painkiller lover! 
oh, we're talking about Quake engines? GLQuake is all you need.

Be serious. Using GlQuake instead of FitzQuake is like taking the bus instead of driving in a luxury car.

And HL2 isn't a modern engine. 
awaiting ZTN for deletion in 3... 2... 1... 
Be serious. Using GlQuake instead of FitzQuake is like taking the bus instead of driving in a luxury car.

More sociable, morally righteous, and better for the planet, then?? 
Ugly, noisy, slow, smelly and dangerous. It'll probably get you there eventually, as long as it doesn't crash and you don't get stabbed. 
Well I Dont Get It! 
OK, news flash - it IS 2008

Were it 1996 then visuals wouldn't be availiable, but they ARE!

People HAVE improved Quake engines, so use them!


Im not just using colored lighting for the sake of it, I genuinely love the effect you can create with the subtle tones of yellow and blue, natural and un-natural light. I know enough about art to know that sticking bright red/green lights everywhere would be dumb. I put a lot of thought/consideration into the implementation of it, and build maps with the idea of how I can use all of the tools in my box together to maximum effect. Its meant to look tastefull

Maybe I should just go and map for anything else. But I like Quake:

You can RUN FAST, JUMP HIGH, you never take more than 5% falling damage. The fast paced but simple gameplay is what I like, it's addictive, well concieved, will stand the test of time because if its simplicity. Also Quake is like THE MOST MODIFIED game ever. Buy a copy from ID for $20, theres about 10 years of gameplay content there!!!!

Dont get me wrong - I respect all of the other classic-Quake-feel things that people make. Simulucrums Katagean Redoubt/all of Kells recent work/Biff_Debris/Quonquer - all fantastic! 
Shambler - Get Real! 
There is nothing

"More sociable, morally righteous, and better for the planet"

about playing one computer game than another...

(slaps head, rolls eyes and groans...) 
He's talking about taking the bus, fool. That's something entirely different. AS IF YOU'D COMPARE IT TO VIDEO GAMES! Such foppishness is, quite simply, astonishing.

p.s. ignore me, I'm just shitstirring as usual.

Wait a minute - is anyone here NOT shitstirring? I can't even tell is Scamphoe was serious with his GlQuake bollocks, or if he's just poking the wasp's nest with a stick.

I DO know that Shambler is being an insufferable boor, as usual. ;) 
I Know, I Know.... 
...I'm just grumpy - early in the morning for me (about 11:30 now) - say up too late mapping again. Rational thought gets clouded along with other perceptions...

TBH I think my new level will look OK with white light!

I just think its funny that you recommend a port to play your mod/map, or a choice of ports, and people just shrug and use whatever engine they please then say the lighting sux or it looks crappy...

...I'm just paranoid. Nobody has even said this yet!! :-P 
I don't think it's funny at all. People are creatures of habit, and we tend to stick to what we're comfortable and familiar with.

This should be especially understandable when we're talking about an ancient game like Quake - obviously we're not in it for graphical whizbangery or new-fangled shenanigans like coloured lighting and such.

Each us us has a setup that works, and typically we don't want to dick around with different engines (having to set up our configs, learn how to turn off the asstacular new 'features' and effects, etc) only to have the POS crash or just be so unbearably shit that you immediately have to scour your drive free of any traces of the offending program.

In all seriousness, you cannot expect me or anyone else to play your maps in Darkplaces, or any other engine that we've probably already tried and rejected. If we're not already using it, we probably don't want to, and it's highly unlikely that any single map is going to convince us to bother. 
Having Said That... 
Subtle, tastefully done coloured lighting is fine, of course... as long as it meets the following criteria:

- Make sure everything is fully supported in FitzQuake.
- Make sure the .lit file or whatever it is loads automatically.

As long as the above is true, I'm happy to view your maps as intended! ;) 
I see little reason for colored lighting, interpolation, or any other fancy stuff in Quake. Quake is Quake. Accept it for the greatness that it is or map for another game. Adding, for example, bump mapping to Quake is the ultimate in silliness.

I agree that colored lighting is great and I use it every single day at work - but I don't want it in my 1996 Quake game. 
Willem = Purist 
I can respect this! I think the lighting will look good with white light. I have looked at the level with white light and it looks OK to me! There are just a few spots where sourced lights are red, so the red light will look weird with white light coming out of it. But I suppose that in ID's levels there were red light textures anyway, so... ?

You can still view the level in FitzQuake though! (and disable coloured lighting out of spite i suppose.... ? )

Mr Fribbles : FitzQuake is what I work with. It's the engine I use. I like FitzQuake a lot.
Its my favourite. Darkplaces sucks because it's so buggy with most maps it seems. Its buggy with mine anyway, and I wouldnt recommend playing it because it doesnt spawn any of the doors in the level.

This is what I mean - I make the map for FitzQuake. So that people can view the coloured lighting. But people dont want to view coloured lighting.

This brings me to one conclusion:

Coloured lighting sucks. What a terrible idea that someone came up with. Almost as terrible as alphamasked sprites, new enemies, god forbid a torch, breakable objects (they werent in the original Quake, so why bother implementing them), skyboxes look awfull, leave it in yer Quake 2 ALRIGHT, we dont want it here, arena type battles with monsters spawning in waves, that looks terrible too, and it wanst in the original Quake, so why not just forget doing that for fun, my 1996 game doesnt support 3D acceleration, and I dont want it either, it RUINS the whole experience, we dont want ladders, whats wrong with the lifts supplied in the original game, why bother making a ladder? People just want to run around in a lo-res environment, in 320x200, 8 bit colour, shooting dogs, grunts, enforcers, knights, ogres, wizards feinds and shamblers and thats IT. Anything else is too much and we dont want it here. PEOPLE dont want it here. I can speak for more than one person, because I am legion 
And Another Point To Take Heed: 
People absolutely HATE having to use more than one engine. There isnt a SINGLE PERSON OUT THERE who can get their head round the idea that one of these TERRIBLE custome maps/mods might be better off in one engine than another.

EVERYONE has ONE SETUP which is COMPLETELY RIGID. People dont like the idea of having to read a couple of lines of documentation to figure out how to run something, and if it doesnt work perfectly in their setup at that time, they will jump straight on the bandwagon that whatever it is is CRAP, BADLY CONCIEVED and delete it from their hard drives in disgust! (still without having read the documentation)

I think I finally get it... 
I agree, to a point. Coloured lighting isn't anything I've bothered with personally, but if it enhances a map and still looks appropriately 'quakey', then I don't think it hurts. Having said that, I've only seen literally a few Q1 maps with coloured lighting anyway, so it's both an uninformed opinion and a pretty moot point.

Stuff like model interpolation, and other minor enhancements and fixes though... well, it's all fine as long as it's in the spirit of the original game. Of course, everyone has their own idea of where to draw the line. Model interpolation is something that I kind of appreciate if it's there, but I won't use an otherwise questionable engine just to have this feature.

Adding, for example, bump mapping to Quake is the ultimate in silliness.

I don't think anyone can argue with this!

I appreciate your purist stance... and I can truly respect it since you're a GENUINE purist (using software Quake!) and not a weaksauce hardware pretender! ;)

I do consider myself a pretty uncompromising purist though, and I think many others here are too. This is why there's so much love for FitzQuake - it's an enhanced engine with lots of fixes and genuine improvements, but metl stays true to the proper Quake look and feel and, well, he just knows what's what. And that's it. 

The Quake engine wasn't written with colored lighting in mind so all of the artwork is geared towards supporting white lighting. That's why I oppose colored lighting in Quake.

It's not a hard line stance against colored lighting in general. As I said, I use colored lighting every day at work and I love it. But it has no place in Quake.

What I'm saying is not hard to grasp and, sure, you can take it to ridiculous extremes and screams IN ALL CAPS but it doesn't change a thing. That's how I feel about it. You're free to disagree. But I won't be playing your maps if you require me to use a specific engine or jump through a single hoop to do it.

The only thing I really want done to the Quake engine is for someone to raise the internal limits on edicts and r_speeds and things like that. That's all I would need. 
I Think You Read My Posts 
but didnt undertand them.

So, you do like FitzQuake? Or you dont?

Supposing you were playing a level which was supplied with one of those AWFULL .lit files, would you jump through hoops to make sure there is no coloured lighting when you play?

My map runs in every engine I think. I went out of my way to make sure that it does! Bspinfo.exe all the way baby! I dont require anyone to use any specific engine to play it.

I am simply asking one Question:

"If you downloaded my map (which I dont think you would) to play (which I dont think you do) would you play it with or without the .lit file?"

And another Question:

"Do you have a working copy of FitzQuake to use?"

It doesnt sound like you would play my map anyway, because its not your sort of map.

Also: Surely more edicts and a higher r_speeds tolerance would indicate a map of size or detail which wasn't meant to run on "proper" Quake? Contradicting you original narrow minded approach to your precious 1996 shooter? 
What is your problem with me exactly? Can't I like something different from what you like? Is that not allowed anymore?

I'm tired of reading your CAP LOCKED jabs and digs. We're done here. 
This Makes Sense. 
The Quake engine wasn't written with colored lighting in mind so all of the artwork is geared towards supporting white lighting. That's why I oppose colored lighting in Quake.


I never really thought about it much, but I guess this is the reason that all coloured lighting effects in many of the 'quake' ports out there look like utter arse. I always figured it was just someone with no artistic skills or taste implementing it, which is why it came across so poorly.

I guess it was probably both.

In any case I've never felt compelled to add coloured lighting to any of my own maps... pretty much nobody else bothers either. I guess we old-timers instinctively know it's wrong, even if we don't know why. :) 
Supposing you were playing a level which was supplied with one of those AWFULL .lit files, would you jump through hoops to make sure there is no coloured lighting when you play?

Personally? No. If my engine of choice loaded the .lit file automatically, with no interaction or intervention required on my part, then I'd simply accept it as the author intended - provided it looked good/appropriate.

If it looks naff or even vaguely questionable, I'll go out of my way to delete or disable the .lit file though. In fact I've done this before, in one of the three maps I've played with coloured lighting in Quake. :) 
Im Glad You Dont Like My CAPS 
Let me answer your questions:

"What is your problem with me exactly?"

I dont have a problem with you. I'm just slightly exasperated. I keep asking you questions but you give me no straight answer. I suppose we're having a debate. I actually like you :-)

"Cant I like something that you dont like?"

Hey, its free country mate!

"Is that not allowed anymore?"

No, its still allowed (but I'd like to think I'm working on it (joke))

Its just feels to me like its a shame that your stonewalling my .lit work. I worked hard. Then someone turns around and says "Well out of principal its not right, and I'm not interested"

Well fine.

I thought your mod was good. I thought the maps were good. I played them. 
"Its just feels to me like its a shame that your stonewalling my .lit work. I worked hard. Then someone turns around and says "Well out of principal its not right, and I'm not interested" "

I was never talking about you directly. I was talking about colored lighting in general. 
I have the litfiles zip for the quake1 original levels. I prefer playing through ep1 with them installed. Each to his own.

But if you think about it the argument about Quakes 8bit pallette not supporting the colored lights I say its not quite true; 16-32 bit rendering would mean that the shades of colour added to the original colours of the pallette wouldnt look crappy because of the higher bit-depth. Because a high bit depth allows for more increments of colour than the texture has on it, the result would be an individual leaf with a high bit-depth texture on it.

So it could look fine! If done right.

You could just as easily say that "Maps which are too dar or fullbright look crappy - too dark = very little visibility at all; fullbright = texture's 8 bit pallette only too obvious...)

I agree that some coloured lighting looks crappy. People make levels with (RGB 255 0 0) as their colours, which looks crap. There are so many shades and colours you can achieve with the RGB system that to go for just pure red, green or blue will look retarded. Completely. Its that same as lighting in general, or brushwork. Bad brushwork is bad. Bad lighing is bad. I'm not argueing with this point. 
How About 
"whats the difference between a texture which has been geared towards coloured lighting and a texture which hasn't?"

for a question? 
Portal 3-map-pack

Fileplanet only download link Im afraid, not tried the maps but they look fairly professional from the screen shots, enjoy! 
On Fitzquake / Glquake 
I see it like this, no Fitzquake / tyrquake / whateverquake, then no Marcher Fortress, no <insert crazy ass huge q1sp here> so its worth it imo. 
Don't worry, I played your recent level (TheHand?) in AGLQuake, just to avoid having coloured lighting :D 
Yes, Yes 
This is what I'm talking about...

I have the litfiles zip for the quake1 original levels. I prefer playing through ep1 with them installed. Each to his own.

Heresy! In a bygone era you'd have been burned at the stake for even suggesting such a breathtakingly shit idea. 
Have at you! 
Just For The Crack: 
Fitzhack V0.2 
Ok, had to muck about for an hour to get the code to compile again. Here's fitzhack without the monsterclip stuff that broke zer. 
Watch out for the laser-eyed Mr Fribbles, he is a penguin-halfbreed and likes fish a lot!

Those two screenshots simply look like they are using different toned textures. I agree that the "yellow sunlit" one looks better though. :) 
Given that engaging in this debate in an attempt to make some progress is a prospect not unlike plunging my hand into boiling acid to rescue a dead rat, I'm going to be brief:


I see little reason for colored lighting, interpolation, or any other fancy stuff in Quake. Quake is Quake. Accept it for the greatness that it is or map for another game.

is not being a purist. It is being a puritan. 

"prude: a person excessively concerned about propriety and decorum"

...well, not quite! ;P 
Screenshots ^^^ 
I actually shocked myself there; I can't believe my map loaded in WinQuake! Its a 9995Kb fast vised map. I just used:

-winmem 48000 -game quoth 
Colored Lights 
it can enhance the mood, if it�s done in a subtle and tasteful manner, but tbh mostly it�s overdone and looks out of place, often even in Q2.

But as long as it�s made optional with a .lit file, I don�t have a problem. You gotta think of all the hard quakin rastafari :P 
But as long as it�s made optional with a .lit file, I don�t have a problem.


i'm veering slightly towards willem's point of view (on coloured lighting in quake), although i don't mind it as a novelty every once in a while. certainly not a necessity though

i think skyboxes & fog are fantastic however, so i'm far from a puritan in that respect 8) 
lol engine holywars

for a record: only fitz and DP have overbright lighting. in all the other gl engines lighting looks rather flat 
If you want to get on #terrafusion occasionally, but, like me, couldn't be arsed finding and installing a decent IRC client, try this:

It's a web based thing that seems to work pretty well. All you have to do is choose quakenet as your server and enter #terrafusion as the channel (and enter your nickname, of course).

There was no obvious downloading or installing of stuff, or any other shenanigans... it just worked, and it was pretty good. 
hey, that's kinda cool. 
I guess I deserve this thread for having the gall to state a preference. Sorry all! 
Opinions, Arseholes 
I Actually Think JoeQuake 
is a really good engine!
I mean for a balance between compatibility and sheer eye candy.

And AguirRe's engine is immortal. 

"I see little reason for colored lighting, interpolation, or any other fancy stuff in Quake. Quake is Quake. Accept it for the greatness that it is or map for another game."

is not being a purist. It is being a puritan.

That's an excellent way of putting it, I like the analogy. There's no need to religiously stick to the original engines when there are engines out there that do the same things better. Fitzquake is pretty much just GLQuake minus the bugs, and all the other changes bring it closer to the original feel of software quake.

I don't mind new features as long as they're tastefully done, basically. Coloured lighting is a gray area, it isn't distasteful of itself, but it's difficult to do it well. 
roar - but louder. 
for me, interpolation only highlights all the limitations in the Quake models - mainly the jelly effect due to the fact that each vertex coordinate only has 8-bit accuracy; and the fairly simplistic 10FPS animation that was never designed to look good when interpolated.

Similarly, anything other than white light seems to turn Quake's 256 shades of brown into homogeneous flattened dog turd. 
Seeing as the current topic is engines - how feasible would it be to eliminate wateralpha from the cfg and make it a by texture number, configured mapside.

It'd allow a fair few tricks - animated fog being the first idea, as well as proper teleports alongside water that can be more or less transparent depending on how dirty it's supposed to be. 
16-32 bit rendering would mean that the shades of colour added to the original colours of the pallette wouldnt look crappy because of the higher bit-depth. Because a high bit depth allows for bla bla bla no no, no.

It wasn't a technical statement. It was an artistic one. Quake's color pallete is much more muted, and there's a lot of subtlety in the differences between shades and hues, and in the way id's texture artists combined them. Richly colored lighting has a way of overriding and cancelling out texture colors (see: red light on blue object), and Quake's palette is particularly unhappy with that kind of abuse.

Check out some of the copper textures, the ones with the nice green oxidation on them. The brown and green are roughly the same luminance, and even just a tinted light can ruin the hues that separate them, turning them into, as Kinn stated, visually undifferentiated poo. 
I Didn't Bother To Read All The Messages 
but rickyt your colored lighting was good, since it was suble and not obvious and made different feeling to inside and outside parts of the map.

I can understand why some people want to play without colored lighting.

I can NOT understand why people want to play with vanilla glquake crappy lighting, no fullbrights, gl_flashblend yellow spheres... It's much worse than software for chrissakes, those are bugs that were in the first glquake that have since been fixed in fitz, fuh etc... 
Well, there might be various ways to associate an alpha value or any other attribute with a texture in quake, using either a texture config file or some sort of shader system. There isn't really a standard way that engines do it (unless you ask the engine coder himself, and he'll say his way is standard -- as soon as others adopt it) but that's how i would see doing it.

However, in any engine with per-entity alpha, you could simply make your objects func_walls and give them the alpha you wanted. I'm not sure how other engines do it, but in the version of fitzquake I'm working on, I made entity alpha completely override wateralpha, (rather than scale it or something) so that you could have your faded ground fog, and opaque teleport texture, just by manually setting alphas on the entities. (though, i think you might need to set the teleporter alpha to 0.999 if 1.0 is considered "default" -- maybe I should go examine that.) 
But turning brushes to entities means they can't be used as water - so to have, say, two different transparencies for water brushes isn't possible?

It'll also stop the water 'animation' or warping effect, AFAIK.

Just thinking aloud here.

Looking forward to the next version of FitzQuake. 
I'm completely serious. GLQuake looks and runs fine. Any new feature added either doesn't look great with the art content of Quake, or is done far better in a newer engine. That's not to say increased limits aren't nice, but I think it's strange to use more entities or tris when designers aren't even getting that much more fun out of them.

After 11 or so years, my opinion is that we haven't even explored much past the simple gameplay of the original id maps.

As it is, the Quake mapping community is still creating the same old maps, the same old gameplay, and attempting to dress it up with nicer visuals. Orges will always be above the player to lob grenades, you'll always need to get the gold key to get through a locked door, etc etc etc. At this point, you may as well use a more recent game that looks nicer since you really aren't pushing forward the gameplay standards. And if mappers aren't making all that much better stuff, why bother?

You may want to take my comments with a grain of salt, since I've come to feel that single player FPS games in general are tired and played out, an entire genre of "click on things and they die" mixed with "find random object, progress, repeat" as the fed-to-you 'storyline'. 
Then Fuck Off 
...he said 'poo'. 
Scampie: Agreed 
reluctantly though 
you can't seriously be arguing that there hasn't been anything original. Besides, what I really get out of Quake is the atmosphere. Most new games don't have any. 
I agree almost completely with basically everything you say. There's one major flaw in the argument that I simply cannot get past though:

Standard glquake is pants.

If glquake had have been done properly (say, it was as good as FitzQuake, disregarding 'new' features like skyboxes etc) then sure. Completely agree.

However, let's face reality: glquake is riddled with flaws and bugs that detract from the experience (and is missing important features that were present or implemented better in the software renderer!)

Load up a map in glquake. Fire the lightning gun... notice the dirty grey shaft (no fullbrights) that isn't even connected to the end of the weapon. Notice the shit lighting (see speedy's pics above). Jump in the water and observe the problems that metlslime mentions.

Then change maps and crash with a texture cache mismatch :D

At the end of the day, FitzQuake is closer to proper Quake than standard glquake is. 
This is not done yet but I could use some feedback already:

First I wanted to add all known engines but luckily I quickly realised that it a) would be pointless and b) another shitload of work. So I cut them down to something I consider a good range of decent singleplayer engines.

I will add Tyrquake and Makaqu. Q2K4 will probably be excluded unless I find a way to disable the "PPC hitboxes".
Feedback on the engines list and the tested features is very welcome. Please mind the "todo".

One thing I really need is some sort of stress test demo that ideally would top the "usual" limits and bring engines with non-raised limits to their knees (crashing, buffer overflow, missing stuff or whatever). Any suggestions for maps? I thought about that crazy "rectangle filled with monsters" aguirRe and sielwolf posted about some months ago.
Or maybe several demos focusing on different limits.

Also I would like to test some recent map for bugfree-ness. Probably one of neg!ke's speedmaps would work fine, any recommendation? 
There are really two different ideas here that are getting conflated -- what is a good engine to play quake with, and what is a good platform for creativity. You seem to be saying that because quake is not a good platform for creativity, glquake is a good engine to play quake with.

Since championing glquake is semi-absurd, i'll move on to your more compelling point, which is that the overall quake mapping scene has run out of any creative relevance, and we are basically making new maps with tired old gameplay. And, if we really want to do something innovative in either the graphics, or gameplay departments, or both, we should be using a more recent game as a platform for that. This is probably true.

But, there are a number of reasons not to, some of which might be valid. Switching games also means effectively switching communities, which is difficult (to find a decent one, that is.) It also means starting over in terms of technical knowledge, which for people here that are not and never will be pro game developers, is not worth it for a side hobby. There is also the fact that after a certain amount of time, the core fans that remain with a game have become near-100% blind to its shortcomings, which means that any other game won't be as "perfect" in terms of atmosphere, gameplay, art style, etc.

For me personally, there is still value in making levels in the relatively done-to-death conceptual space of single player quake. It's a well-understood, familiar set of game mechanics, and yet I still don't feel that I've mastered the art of making levels for it. As long as it takes effort and thought to make a level, I feel like there's some further enlightenment waiting for me to puzzle out. And the familiarity of the game mechanics, technology, and authoring tools, means that I'm spending my time working on the actual craft and not working on learning new tools, tech, or gameplay.

But yeah, I probably should have moved on already, and I probably will move on eventually.

It's also possible that I will find a day job that fully satisfies my game design urges, but it hasn't happened so far -- you're always rowing to somebody else's drum, even if you're leading a team and the drum is the CEO, or the publisher, or the mass market. 
the best Quake have for me is the speed!!! only find that in Painkiller... but PK is to fucking linear :\ and Quake is pure fun! 
"Then Fuck Off"


I can't understand why someone who feels that the FPS genre is tired and dated, and the community creating maps for one of it's oldest games is tapped out creatively, would bother to stick stick around. Why not move on?

I grow weary of game design intellectuals who bemoan the state of the FPS genre and linear maps and whatever else they choose to waffle on about yet, of course, don't do anything about it. Just whine. Because that's productive.

If you don't like something - stop doing it. There are lots of other games to play. Leave us, the apparently unenlightened, to enjoy ourselves down here in the mud.

Sorry, just one of my sore spots. 
13860 / 13859 
metlslime: excellent post! very much agreed on all points

spirit: nice idea, i'd thought of doing something like that before but never really had the time to investigate all engines that were out there. one point i'd like to raise is regarding skyboxes & fog - i think it should be specified whether worldspawn values are supported or not. or maybe have a seperate table for worldspawn values.. i'd consider them the most important additions since they reflect the mapper's intentions 
In Other News 
My website, Signs Of Koth, has moved from leveldesign to quaddicted.

The new address is:

I'd like to point out that I've been pondering this move for ages, and Spirit set it up a few days ago. It is not an impetuous decision.

Agree With Metl On Those Points 
The two games I return to frequently are Quake and Deus Ex, and these games satiate entirely different needs when I'm playing or creating content for them.

Argument for the necessity of innovation or else 'video games are dead' is as silly as saying pop up books are better than flat page print ones because the former break the 2D plane.

Poker and Hearts players never have to hear these arguments or hear complaints about their inabilaty to change. 
I was realy surprised by the use of coloured lights. Untill someone told me they were too harsh and the textures wouldn't compare with it. Then I understood to use it spareley.

I believe in the use of classic Quake, without any improvements, as it is the most pure way it is intended.

Of course I like Fitzquake and the gl- engines.
But it changes the way of mapping.

The abandon mod I can play in classic quake, although the second version, made with aguires new compilers show heaps. Fitzquake doesn't mind and expands almost the biggest levels, but it has changed my way of mapping. 
nice, now the URL on your profile is twice as out-of-date! 
As it is, the Quake mapping community is still creating the same old maps, the same old gameplay, and attempting to dress it up with nicer visuals. Orges will always be above the player to lob grenades, you'll always need to get the gold key to get through a locked door, etc etc etc. At this point, you may as well use a more recent game that looks nicer since you really aren't pushing forward the gameplay standards. And if mappers aren't making all that much better stuff, why bother?

Songwriters are still using the same old verse chorus verse scheme. There will always be a middle eight, the second and fourth lines will always rhyme, and artists are always catering to the audience's expectation. They have to. It's what works. It's what sells records. It's what people love to hear.

They are singing the same old songs. It's always the same old major and minor scales, the same old beats. It's much like painting by numbers.


Still, you can have ten mappers reinterpret e1m1 and I guarantee you they will all be different.

Fribbles: Neglecting the texture mismatch issue, which is fundimentally an easily avoided level design bug by this point, I feel those issues aren't seriously detracting, especially since to my eyes, after years of playing GLQuake, that's how it looks.

you can't seriously be arguing that there hasn't been anything original.

what has been? You're always a Quake Marine, fighting hordes of evil, and getting to the goal. The 'storyline' of your experiance throughout any Quake level has always been the same, even if the written prologue is changed. Level Design is fundimentally about creating a new experience for the player, yet Quake design has been limited to 'kill monsters, leave'.

the overall quake mapping scene has run out of any creative relevance, and we are basically making new maps with tired old gameplay. And, if we really want to do something innovative in either the graphics, or gameplay departments, or both, we should be using a more recent game as a platform for that.

I have a habit of overstatement, but basically, yes. I relieze most guys mapping here are just hobbyists, but is taking the time to learn new tech really that difficult? My opinion is that the process of learning new ways to apply the skills of level design is very rewarding and as fun an endevour as creating levels.

I agree with the love of Quake being the enjoyment of it's pure mechanics and simple nostalgia. In fact, I believe our opinions are much aligned, despite our difference in tone. I think more could be done to make better levels beyond simply making prettier things.

Argument for the necessity of innovation or else 'video games are dead' is as silly as saying pop up books are better than flat page print ones because the former break the 2D plane.

So you don't think it's worthwhile to pursue and champion new ideas? If flat paper print only ever had stories starring a single hero, doing the same adventure, would you still read? The medium isn't the issue here, my boredom of FPS games only steams from their singular experiance they've ever offered me.

Still, you can have ten mappers reinterpret e1m1 and I guarantee you they will all be different.

10 different filesizes and enviromental looks, and the exact same gameplay. 
Grr. Forgot A Bit... 
I'm spending my time working on the actual craft and not working on learning new tools, tech, or gameplay.

I'd like to say, I'm not hoping to put down anyone's enjoyment of their craft and hobby. I'm just saying I want more.

Also, pop-up books are way better regular books. 
Bitching on a Quake forum to Quake fans who are making Quake levels with Quake gameplay, is a bit like going out to an Italian restaurant and getting pissy because they're not doing your favourite Thai peanut curry with coconut rice. 
People at my office take the piss, saying I can see a whole new brown spectrum that's invisible to none Quakers.

Also, QuakeC is the mutt's nuts. 
With My Penchant For Post-pub Vindaloo 
I see a new brown spectrum every Sunday morning.

No Kinn 
Bitching on a Quake forum to Quake fans who are making Quake levels with Quake gameplay, is a bit like going out to an Italian restaurant and getting pissy because they're not doing your favourite Thai peanut curry with coconut rice.

It's more like going to an Italian Resturant and all there is is Spegetti, knowing there's more to Italian than that. 
Scampie Has A Point (or Few) 
But then again Quake mapping doesn't really allow for that much variation in gameplay (without QC). There are only few things one can do to break up the core formula of the game - killing monsters, reaching the exit. Quake wasn't made for more. People still play and map for it because of this simplicity (though I agree it does get boring after a while), so suggesting to switch to other games seems odd in this respect. 
There is more potential for variety than some people might think. It just needs people to explore it. 
Remaking The Same Things Over And Over Again 
I find it more depressing when I see "quake maps" in modern games.

Of course I'd like to see more creative stuff being done, it seems like there are still traces left in people from the formulaic years where many important lessons where learned but most of the wild creativity from the ancient times was lost. 
Yes Yes Yes 
I'm aware that you can go nuts with QC and turn Quake into Mary Poppins' Magical Barnyard Funtime if you wanted. I suspect that the majority of people who are into Quake, and are still actively making content for it twelve(?) years down the line, are more often than not doing it out of a love of the original style and simplicity of the game (and the many custom levels that followed in this vein), and want to continue in that style.

Notice how in the early days, we saw a lot of crazy stuff and TCs - Quess, Quake Rally, wierd experimental levels etc. etc. Now I know you're not talking about doing full on TCs, but my point is that whilst Quake maps have got bigger, and pushed more and more the technical limits of what you can run in the engine, the gameplay in many ways has remained "conservative", more so than the experimental days of yore. I think this has less to do with a lack of imagination and inability to create new game concepts, and more to do with the deliberate decision to celebrate Quake for what it is primarily in terms of tone and simplicity of gameplay. 
Not Sure 
People arrive in the game by first playing maps, then they play mods - Zerstorer, OUM, Nehahra, SOE.

Some of my best Quake moments were things that broke from the formulae through using QuakeC, I was always just too lazy to learn and therefore attempt to emulate those greats.

But if everybody wants to keep doing the same old shit then why is Quoth so popular?

Nobody wants to make the same crap, a little bit better. Might sound odd since I'm working on a remake of ep3, but there you go.

How many puzzle levels, trap levels, horde levels have we seen?

Maybe that's another case of a million shades of brown. 
in the early days Quake was the only medium for a huge variety of people to do A-Z. Now the games industry allows basically any weird quirk to be its own game. As a consequence people who are working with Quake now generally just want to do Quake.

"Kill monster, leave"
I've played some great new FPS games (Far Cry, Dark Messiah of Might and Magic). Explain how these are different.

I like to think that maps where you see the whole layout (like Scragbait's Estate, Masque, and Marcher) provide the player with an aesthetic pleasure of completion that is significantly different from fighting monsters room after disconnected room.

I actually agree with plenty of your criticisms, but you have to accept Q1SP for what it is, which is an incredibly limited medium. Games in general are also incredibly limited. Books, for example, are a lot less limited. 
My Post 
was only about the actual level design part and not about anything .qc or whatever. 
Gameplay Again. 
I mean with Quake monsters, Quake weapons (not Quake engine limits though).

There is a lot of potential if people will explore it. Think what ijed did with Warpspasm, ignore the Quoth monsters for a mo and think about the size, the scale, the sheer relentlessness of it all. That was a new direction. There may be many more. Even some relatively normal maps show interesting ideas - look at Headthump's Zer map at the end - fighting monsters in lava with the clock ticking against you. That could be explored further... 
what gameplay modifications do other fps games have? They basically just offer different enemy/map/weapon models.

even something like descent doesn't really exapnd on the doom gameplay much - it just has two more DOF.

And if you're hinting at 'do stuff there, fix this, get me person x here'-missions: those are all mostly trigger based ideas (that could - from a gameplay pov - easily be done in quake, too); also, they aren't really core game mechanics to me.

the stealth games might count as 'expand gameplay', but again, this is not MUCH more than clever triggers + compiler 
right, quake lacks everything that's halfway dynamic, but that's just an engine thing, not gameplay. 
As A Hobbyist 
there are hundreds of ideas involving both game play and design have explored but have not released in any full maps. I'm posting these here instead of the new thread because most of these don't concern game play but design instead.

The Lava puzzle at the end of ZerTM_ht was a simplified version of an idea I once showed AquiRe involving a maze with a lava floor where you had to find sigils of protection and buttons that would raise a walkway around the maze. It is in one of the Mortisville maps, but too frustrating in its current implementation.

Other ideas --

One I demonstrated a while back, the idea of using a min light of 250 in the worldspawn entity and then using the light entities as deductive and additive brushes:

You do get a better since of control with the lighting with this method than standard lighting.

Another way of doing this would be to once again set min light to around 250 and paint on the lighting for each texture in its position in the level. Reuse of textures becomes severely limited, of course, and it is very time consuming.

Also, much more fun than the last method, is to separate out each room or area in a map, create five to ten thousand brushes worth of detail adding material textures without defining details, then go around the individually built maps and take screen shots that are the bases of the textures that you eventually use for the actual level. If you are careful with the lighting, this method can look extremely good.

Similar to this, I like to model in programs like Wings3d and Blender and take ray cast based shots of the models and use those as the basis of textures, like this one: 
In Other News 
The Quoth links on Signs of Koth are not working at this time. 
Crikey! You Turn Your Back For 2-3 Days... 
...all hell breaks loose!

I dont know what to say.

Spirit - Your idea for 'testing engines' - you should look at my new map when it comes out later this week. r_speeds are quite high in places, but the map is within all standard limits and runs in software Quake. What we would need is an AguirRe style Kascam demo where somebody crazy (like AguirRe) runs around on god-mode, trying to create packet overflows.

Lunaran - Delighted to hear from you again. My comprehension of the technical workings of the Quake pallette is far inferior of yours. I ALMOST know what you mean. Infact I do know what you mean. Surely though, on a 32-bit rendering, a light with a color; (RGB 255 255 220) would not cause much of a detrimental effect, very little "muting". I admit that one must be carefull - especially when using light colours like (255 0 0).

I like the idea of using different subtle shades of yellow and blue to represent different types of electric light and sunlight, but without making them TOO yellow or TOO blue. Only slightly coloured lights.

I dunno. I've had fun playing, that's all I can say! 

Where the fuck is Electro?

Bouncing around the country, back in Brisbane now.

That Mibbit is great, may have to poke around with it at lunchtime, the Telstra guy is coming to connect the phone line in a couple of weeks, then I can start organising getting internet connected.

OK, Where Is This Map?

It's not where its says it is, and because theres no link to a specific file, I cant search the filename...

It must be quite a good map, from reading the thread...

Er, This Link: 
Put The H 
ttp in front 
Google For "The Fistfucking Little Box" 
Thanks Spirit! 
I didnt realize that was actually the name of the map!! 
Tried out DarkPlacesMod last night, with Rygels high quality (2.7Gb) texture pack. It has, er, normal and gloss maps for most textures too.
I wanted to try it out with my new 8800 GTS 512.

Start wouldnt load, neither would E1M1, I think due to a lack of memory. I wasnt using the picmip command.

But The Fistfucking Little Box loaded fine, due to a small amount of textures used for the map. And I must say mod and map together = more eyecandy than I could get my head round. I nearly cried at all of the beauty.

High res bump-mapping (OK, not quite bumpmapping) in Quake - un-necessary indeed, along with the RTLighting, but, well, I thought it looked good! :F 
Normal mapping is like advanced bump mapping. 
Is It? Oh, Well... 
I dont really understand it. But it looked cool!
Looks better than the Tenebrae effect, anyway, but I guess thats to do with actual increase in texture resolution.

I quite like the look of just the highres textures in other engines, but Darkplaces *looks* the most impressive with all of the bells and whistles running, in dpmod. Just a shame it wont load big maps that way.

It is silly really! I mean I might as well go and play UT3. 
Wikipedia and look up relief mapping - it's what they used in Quake4 so that a flat surface can occlude itself, interesting reading.

If you're into that sort of thing ;) 
I think I've heard you can knock down Rygel's highest textures to about half size and don't notice about any change in quality.
Don't remember so well anymore. 
I'm Back 
Delegate zero says hello. 
Yeah Bambuz 
I think you use the picmip command. Or you download the small version. 
The latter. Performance will be much better. The looks, a matter of taste, but probably the same. 
Thanks for Fitzhack v2 btw. 
Portal Quake Tribute 
I wonder why the textures look so wretched. I know it's filtering them but GLQuake does that too and it doesn't look THAT bad. 
have they been exported as really bad jpegs or something? Cool novelty anyway. 
is a temperamental fucker at the best of times!

Or maybe its just my inefficient mapping :-P 
Sielwolf Just Saved Me... 
...from delivering a ho hum level (by mere seconds...I had the news sub form open), and I'm going to have to rethink skill 2. So, given I'm moving house tomorrow there'll be a slight delay in getting dis_sp6 out the door. Nonetheless, thanks sielwolf! 
Damn You Sielwolf 
I Bet He Said It Wasnt Hard Enough ! 
Map is sent!

Thanks to all you guys and testers! 
And here is a demo for you to make waiting for the news post approval shorter. 
Nah, You Guys Rock 
wish I had more creative talents here aside from giving wise-ass comments :P 
Photoshop + whiskey = 
Photoshop + Fitz's creative ability + whisky

And one day I'll get Quakeopoly printed and laminated . . . 
message intentionally left blank 
You Just Know You Want That On A TShirt! 
Not THAT Big Of A Nerd 
But then again, I have been thinking about turning QuakeGuy from Radio Quake (Damn!!) into a ringtone. 
..nope, it was all about "interesting" not "hard". And, just as well I didin't release because we'd have two base levs right on each others heels. One a fortnight is good, one a day is overkill :) 
Quake4 Did Not Use 
any relief mapping or parallax mapping, anywhere. I'm not sure we even shipped with a shader for it. 
Malice Wad 
Made a new malice.wad
There are a few textures with differnt look but same names. Those are not included in the old one.

@Spirit please upload it at quaddicted 
Maybe it was a tech demo thing I saw then. 
didnt I read this same discussion a few years ago? or am I just going senile :)

anyway, cheers to biff and ricky for the map releases and to speedy for starting up the new remix pack, that sounds great.

oh and kell preach and necross too for releasing quoth2, forgot I hadnt actually played the maps there too. 
Is it a replacement for the old or an additional one? I would need to rename it, that's why I am asking. 
Hehe! Quake4 Parralax Mapping Mod 
I tried this. It looks OK in places, but the terrain looks weird. Almost like some sort of liquid. I think Q4 looked better as-it-was.

Well, I'm A Right Chatterbox It Seems. 
I'm about to get broadband at home too, so theres no escaping the constant barrage of babble. I'll have to make a website too.

Spirit, can I go on Quaddicted, once I've built the thing? 
i had very little to do with quoth2, it was all kell and preach (and anyone else who helped). :)

i shall also be honest and admit i haven't even played it yet, let alone all the map releases that have happened in the last few months... i have such a backlog of quake stuff to get through when i have some free time. :(

but yet, thank you to everyone releasing stuff, even though i haven't been able to play it yet. :) 
Yup, Im Now Online @ Home ! 
Scary eh?!?!

necros - at least you listened to my heavy metal! 
still have those 2 clips on my HDD. ;) 
Sure, unless you want a database. :) 
Naah - Just Somewhere To Post My Maps 
And the odd MP3 probably.

I'll just knock up some crappy html page wid a few 'pegs and stuff. And I dont mind linking to mediafire for downloads. I just think it'd be cool to be a !

I'll let you know when its constructed ;-P 
People Should Vote On 
Spirits site - should he keep the pink?

(Hell yes!) 
I would kill you for doing that. 
Well I Could Just Link To 
for my maps. But what if I end up with a load of music? Gah! I havent even built the damn thing yet... 
I Read Some Posts Talking About A New Version Of Fitzquake 
but it hasnt been released yet has it? 
Fitzquake SDL 
SleepwalkR is working on an SDL version of Fitzquake. Not really a new version but may become the new Fitzquake codebase.


SDL + OpenGL? 
Yes It is a replacement of the old one.
It was a hell lot of work finding textures with the same name but different look ;) 
Display Problems 
Hard drive crashed, reinstalled quake through steam. when I try to run my screen is a tangled mess of neon green squares. Probably a simple fix but I'm two steps away from being a ludite. Any tips? 
This is probably completely unrelated, but when I moved to Vista+ATI card/drivers my screen was totally corrupt in Quake.

It took me a while to find the solution - seems that I had set gl_ztrick 1 years ago for a bit of a performance increase, but the new card/driver combo was pretty unhappy about that. It was all fixed when I set the variable back to 0 (which is the default anyway).

Just throwing that out there on the slim chance that you or anyone else experiences this problem. 
ATI card in THIS office computer doesnt like AguirRe's engine, as I mentioned before. I've tried changing the drivers, and it used to work fine. Probably the card is becoming fucked!

I was getting weird particles on the screen which wouldnt go away.

My tip - Check your drivers, download the most up to date/most effective drivers, make sure they are installed. When you re-installed your OS did you check your drivers for you video hardware?

(OK, so it might be a bit of an obvious one, but...... ho-hum) 
some of the more uptodate drivers stuff up older games, espeially with all this changing of opengl stuff.

I always keep the install file of an older set that I know works.

And frib, I've had that too, not with the current card or drivers but on my old video card gl_ztrick did really funny things in all quake/q2 engine games 
defaults to 1 in the original GLQuake AFAIK. I think it's supposed to improve performance on older cards at the expense of visuals. I always have it set to 0 to avoid z-fighting.

In some engines, it defaults to 0 (e.g. NehQuake) or cannot be set at all (e.g. Fitz, Tomaz). 
Aliens: Colonial Marines - Better Versions Of Same Shots:

Unlike the last time I posted a link to these shots, these are actual images rather than scans from magazines.

Also I just read that (part of?) the game is set on the Sulaco after Ripley gets ejected towards fury 151. And apparently there will be no HUD.


About fucking time they made an aliens game that looked like *this* :) VERY HAPPY

I really really hope its not too consoley.... fucking consoles :( VERY UN-HAPPY 
Most Up To Date Drivers Available... 
Maybe that's the problem... 
Maybe One Of These, Drew? 
Well... never did say what card you have, but if you look around there you'll probably find a driver which works (?) 
boosted performance by not clearing the zbuffer between frames. The only quality decrease is that the depth buffer had less precision, but I'm not sure that it was a noticable difference.

As a performance feature, it's really only relevant to performance on really old cards, AFAIK. 
Agreed! I know you love Aliens as much as I do :D

Really exciting stuff... bet it's gonna be scary too. I'm fully prepared to crap my trousers when it comes out. 
This Will Sound Like A Stupid Question 
but whats the easiest way of playing deathmatch Q1 online?

I always look at, er, Quakeworld, or whatever, and cant see where the action actually is...

I get a bit sick of the UT2004 demo !

(It is a good demo, but I fancy Quake for a change) 
Years and years ago, it was Quakeworld launching from a copy of GameSpy/QuakeSpy. Not sure what the kids are using these days though. 
Mostly Depends Where You Live 
If you are in the USA you will have to play NetQuake I guess.
If you are european (or with a decent connection to eu) it's QuakeWorld. There are some ffa servers that always have players (xs4all and that russian one). 
Aye, What Spirit Said 
Get a copy of a Quakeworld client you like (or at least can tolerate). Zquake is or at least was the Quakeworld equivalent of FitzQuake, but I'm not sure if it is still being maintained. FuhQuake is tolerable once you disable almost all of the bullshit "improved" effects and such.

Anything else is probably to be avoided (be careful of stuff like ezquake and nquake which are supposed to make it easier/better to play QW online... they come with so many spectacularly shit new effects, textures, models, etc etc that it really just isn't Quake anymore (and no, it's not better :))

Once you've got it configured, go to, and in the menu on the left, go to QUAKEWORLD page and select "with players". You'll get a list sorted by country of all the active servers (with players).

Copy the address/ip, go back to your Quakeworld client and type "connect whatever" where whatever is the server name/ip. 
QW Client... 
Well, I checked the Zquake page and it seems it's still going strong. I haven't tried the latest versions, but I can hope and assume this is still a solid choice. Go here:

The list of features for this version includes this:

- NQ progs.dat is supported. The two Quake mission packs, Scourge of Armagon and Dissolution of Eternity, work right out of the box. So does Omicron Bot, the famous NetQuake bot that can play on any map and learn while playing.

Well that was fun!! Er, I did manage to connect to one "Game" on dm6, with one other dude, but I seemed to not understand what was going on. I had 000 000 for health and armor, couldnt take any damage, there were gold keys everywhere (!?) and the other guy was running around not really doing anything...

...also zquakegl.exe and zq-client-gl.exe say "unable to find glide2x.dll" when I try to open them, so I was having the "classic" visual style with zquake.exe (which I dont mind)

But anyway, thanks for pointing me in the right direction! I'll hopfully have better luck later! :-P 
Oh Yeah.. only works when I disable internet security (!!), and then when internet security comes on again it leaves a tab on my task bar which cannot be raised... 
delete opengl32.dll that comes with zglquake (i presume) to get rid of the glide error. 
ezQuake is a good client for QW. The 'improved' effects aren't enabled by default. At least if you only download the client, not the entire nquake pack.

You have to type "ready" in the console to start a match on duel servers. 
I must have downloaded the full package then. (I did want to see it since people were talking up how great it was).

Bollocks I say. 
Aliens CM 
my mate was working on that for PS2 when I was at Rebellion. Rebellion was trying to get the contract and actually, what he was doing looked REALLY similar. That's cool though, I hope they are taking it in the same direction he was trying to. The no hud thing sounds great. 
Welcome To QW Ricky! 
Getting rid of modern effects in fuhquake: Run it with -no24bit in the command line.

QW is best when you are playing somebody of your skill level. It's fun when both suck and it's fun when both rock (except when people camp).
It's not fun to play against someone that is 1000 times better than you (a very regular experience in QW if you go to a random server).
I can't stress it enough. Don't stop QW if you keep only getting minus frags, but seek a fun opponent with whom you can play. It's great that way.

So play friends.

Best way to learn QW is to play duels. Most servers use ktpro or ktx qwprogs. These make it easy to use the servers for regular players, no admin rights required.

Type ready to start the map and dm2 to change to dm2, timedown to reduce match time limit, dmm3 to set dm mode where weapons stay etc. Usually the server has an alias called 1on1 to set 1on1 game defaults. So just type 1on1, then dm2, then ready to get a duel game going on .
Then play 2on2s in dmm3 and finally 4on4 dmm1 (weapons don't stay).

Nowadays there are newbie friendly organizations in place, like #qwnewbie on quakenet and stuff on or linked from there. If I remember right. There are lots of cool services.

You can also spectate (you can use qwtv too) a few games or watch a few demos to just gape in awe at the god-like moves the stars pull off at times. Riker, Fix or Paradoks just to mention some names. I don't know who's the hottest name nowadays. 
since QW is such a fast game, after the first few games I'd suggest spending some time on the mouse settings and configuration. I use -dinput on the client cmdline. I also use a Hz hack in windows to up the mouse refresh rate. And have a CRT running at about 85 Hz (set on client's command line again). I don't know about modern LCD:s, they're probably fine, might require settings though. There are some other variables too but I don't remember them offhand (don't use m_filter tho).

Once you have it all clear and smooth, other games feel like total crap, so this is a double edged sword. 
Your Well Into This Stuff Arent You Bambuz? 
Gimme a gun and I'll shoot stuff.
I just like deathmatch! I also like playing against people who just kill me because it makes me better (and bald)

I'll have to have a proper look into it, but at the moment I know nothing, so I'll probably take a while to find something which I'm comfortable with... 
that what ive installed. it sems ok, I went on some FFA server in Europe, cant remember which one. er... there was one map with IKBase textures in it... that one was OK, but got killed loads on DM6, and my ping was 135 :-| 
Fitzquake Question 
is there a bug which makes the refreshrate needing to be changed form 60 every time you load (I want 75)?

I cant seem to save it. 
It works for me at home now (it's always on 75 for me) but I vaguely recall having to mess around a bit to get it to force the setting on every time.

I don't think it will simply remember the higher value and re-enable it next time (this is possibly intended, so you don't get stuck with an invalid/bad refresh rate?)

Setting it via the command line, adding it to your .cfg files or a combination of both is probably required. I'll check when I get home to see if I can remember how to do it. :) 
Cheers Frib 
that'd be great. It seems ot stay in the config.cfg file till the next load when it gets overwritten back to 60 at startup. 
Try This Nitin 
Put all of your video settings in autoexec.cfg followed by vid_restart, and that should set you straight. Like this (though take out or change any commands you don't want, of course):

vid_vsync "1"
vid_fullscreen "1"
vid_bpp "32"
vid_width "1280"
vid_height "1024"
vid_refreshrate "75"
vid_vsync "1"

The downside of this is that I think it makes the game take a little bit longer to start (since it's doing the vid_restart after it's loaded) but it's not a major drama.

Also, I just noticed I have the same command in there twice... good work me. 
Yeah, Frib, Well You Dont Want Any Tearing ! :P 
Serious Sam - That was pretty fast wasnt it. I have that game, and I think its fun to play! Its also pretty surreal. Let down a bit by level design and general stupidness, its not a very intellectual game, but it certainly has fun fast paced gameplay. I love the way that you know whats coming, you can hear your enemies coming, you know they're coming from all directions...
...designed to make the player panic, I think! 
Serious Sam is a great game all in all, but it wouldn�t have hurt if they gave it some kind of fun physics, and if the rocketlauncher had at least a little splash damage... 
Was let down by only having ten or so enemies. Otherwise a great game. 
Did have well-designed, fun enemies, though. The screaming suicide guys, the big bull/rhino thing, the fiend rippoffs, etc. Many of them required using a different tactic for each enemy type. 
...why not pop over to, they have a lot of info for peeps just joining the online fun. 
The SS Bull 
was cool, especially in packs and when combined with the screaming exploders. 
when you took advantage of the fact the the SS Editor let you scale any enemy you wanted to whatever and you made the bull 1/4 size and the exploder 5 times bigger. The bull still hit you for the same distance, and the exploder didn't do any damage since it would detect collision on the larger size, but the explosion would still be small.... but it was fun :) 
ta. the autoexec thing works but I'll give that program a shot too. 
i'm still confounded by the config.cfg problems you're having. So there's a vid_restart in the config file, but the refreshrate is somehow getting reset anyway?

Do you have any command line window settings? That could be the problem. The presence of -window, -width, -height, or -bpp will disregard the config.cfg video settings. 
here's a list of the vid settings :

vid_bpp "32"
vid_fullscreen "1"
vid_height "1024"
vid_refreshrate "75"
vid_vsync "0"
vid_width "1280"
viewsize "100"

but when I start the game, it resets to 60hz refresh rate and I have to manually adjust it.

Frib's solution works, I have to put it int he autoexec.cfg file. 
Well, To Be Fair 
It's not saving it in my config.cfg because I made that file blank and read-only :D

You know what though, I'm not sure why I ended up with the video settings in my autoexec.cfg rather than in my own little frib.cfg...

I remember having problems getting it to work at the time, but I tried it just now (took the stuff out of autoexec and put it in the other cfg) and it works.

More Testing... 
Ok, so if I put the video settings and vid_restart in my config.cfg it doesn't work... it's not a bug though, because I just remembered I hacked my quake.rc to make it not load default.cfg or config.cfg.

So, I'm a victim of my own shenanigans. Doh! 
Hey Btw 
What's the schedule estimate and status of a new Fitz release? Is it coupled to the SDL version? I'd still like a version with dinput (windows directx) support too, unless there is a way to get rid of mouse acceleration in SDL. Is it too much of a hassle to keep both codes in?

I mean, even if there are just a few fixes it wouldn't really hurt to do a small release like 0.81 even if it was quickly superseded, especially if the Hz vs dinput mouse lock issue is the fix.

I'm not in a position to demand anything of course. 
actually, version .85 is quite far along. I mainly have cleanup and bugfixes left. The schedule is unknown of course, but 1-2 months seems about right.

Current plan for SDL integration is for me to worry about it after 0.85 is released :) 
Tim Willits On Multiplayer Level Design 
From the University of Texas Master Class interviews by Warren Spector:

WS: Is there a difference, as a designer, when you sit down to make a multiplayer map and single player map, are they different? How are they different?

TW: In multiplayer maps, there's these kind of themes. And if you were to do one of these things, your map will be successful. There's the arena theme, which is basically you have this central area that everything feeds into. Then you have a location theme, you know, made famous by, you know, the, uh, Quake ... deathmatch level 3 I think. Where you have like, a generator room, and you have like a water room, so you have like these identifiable locations. Then you have like a "themed" deathmatch map, like uh. In Quake3, like our space maps, with the bounce pads and the acceleration pads and stuff. Those, really, three things, three basic concepts of multiplayer maps, makes a multiplayer map.

There's actually a formula, regardless of what game you're making, and what weapons you have, if you make a map in a certain way, it will always be fun. You know, and that is, uh. Like the Edge, in Quake2, which originally was inspired by a map called Ledges from Doom, is the ... perfect kind of basic framework for a multiplayer map. Where you have this nice central, centralized area, you know, round or square doesn't matter, and you have a few multi -levels where you have some access points and you have some exits and things, and you keep players all focused on this middle area. Then you need to, you know, put a few sound cues, like a ladder or a bounce pad to kind of trigger the players for where other players are, but if you make a map just like that, it will always be fun. It's a bold thing to say, but I have never seen a map like that - made correctly! - in any game that wasn't fun. It really is the perfect ... and I've been doing this a looong time. It's the perfect construction of a multiplayer map.

You know, with, saying that, location based maps are always fun, where you can be like, 'Ohh, I'm in the generator room,' or, 'Ohh I'm in the pump room.' You know, and you can set up kind of fun, gameplay mechanisms with that. And then of course theme maps ... theme maps are always a gamble. You know, like, a big bounce pad and you're always bouncing around, or ... lots of teleporters, or you know, no grav or lots of water. Those can be fun ... most people don't like them, most people will wind up playing the arena style. But if you make a map like that ... I guarantee you.

Once you graduate past basic nub, "Made Correctly" is where 99% of the thinking happens. I'm really kind of surprised that a guy in his position who's had this much time to build maps and test them and consider them, talking about level design for a gametype that's all about player movement, collection of items, and combat, gives tips that have little or nothing to do with any of those things. 
The Quoted Section: 
Is where I stopped listening to the talk. Even before that I was threatening Lunaran with unspeakable pain for telling me to watch it. 
Oh, And A Quote Lun Emailed Me From The Same Talk... 
"as soon as an engine becomes unliscensable, if it's not possible for us to generate revenue for it, John carmack open sources it, or OpenGL's it, or whatever it is." 
Gotta Admit The "formula" He Refers To 
is clearly present in UT3

I was playing FEAR Combat earlier, and there are no jump pads, the player cant move as fast and there's no sounds to tell you where the players are except for that of gunfire, or the rumble of exploisions. I like the way that you might see plaster come off the OTHER SIDE of a wall if something is going on behind it.
It does stick kinda to the "two memorable areas" part, but I also felt pretty disorientated for quite a lot of it. I liked it, it was very much to do with accuracy with the first shot, and stalking. Different but still fun! 
University Of Texas Master Class Interviews By Warren Spector

so far I only watched Spectors` and its ~50% of water and common place but also some nice stuff and I highly recommend it to anyone into gamedesign (I suggest to FFW to ~30minutes from the start)

Tim... is he a bad speaker? If you played q2 atleast till patch 3.20 you will agree that q2dm1 is an excellent level with great balance and depth. Maybe it was the result of chance and playtesting, not just Willit's lvl design skill? And then there is q3dm6. His q1 levels are also some of the best. 
i always hated q2dm1 
watching Willits right now - its a comedy 
Told You So 
I think that bit about dm design Willits talks about is more for the casual players (the ones the bring the money). 
I think the points about differently themed places are good in a way, but they are certainly not the main points in a dm map.
The gameplay has to rock too.

Also, I don't like pure atrium stuff. There is a world out there of huge possibilities and many make q3 atrium map clones since they think that is what DM is about - even when their sp maps show very varied play geometry (I don't mean decorations). 
q3dm6 was jaquays. 
oh my bad then. did you watch till the end? there are many funny/silly bits 
Exclusive Leaked Excerpt From The Internal Doom 3 Single Player GDD 
"...and there gon be like rooms because rooms are always real funs in these uhh shootin' games! and the shape of the rooms don matter so we'll make em all square cos that's real easy right? (TODO: check with John whether square rooms are easier to make than round rooms) uh and its like real dark cos these deamons don't like bright lights and stuff where you can see the funs - but you know the fun's there becuase you can feels your way round the uh corridors like a mole in a tunnel because everyone likes being a mole right? But this time you're a mole in space!"

- TW 
I replied to your mail yesterday (actually replied to the earlier one too). Maybe a google gnome is harvesting them? :)

My answer basically was:
No, I did not touch any of the files.
pak0.pak would be Seal of Nehahra 
1. Steal Spirit's e-mail's to AquiRe.

2. . . . .

3. Profit! 
that is the second time I have noticed the tag line auto-filling with my name.

Happens when I have a certain HTML/CSS editor running in the background. 
That's Cool, Alan 
I got your 2nd response (thanks) and I've sent a reply. 
I'm going to be tossing and turning all night wondering, 'that's cool, Alan', and, blank stare icon, together, what could that possibly mean? 
Augmented Reality Quake:

No need to turn your local high school / shopping mall into a Quake map, now - just put on your goggles! 
Hi Chaps! 
This is the kind of thing I've been getting up to since I stopped making Q1SP maps: 
you start seeing gay music? 
This Is Confusing Me. 
very professionally done, good times. 
lies all lies 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
This Is Going To Be Good 
I wonder if he's being charged per kilobytes. 
25 new posts, I wonder what's new! Oh. 
.n..a...please go tell that damn Ru7sian that I am at a Merzbow , 7atori , Sutcliffe Jugend gig. ALSO metl, I am having i7sues post4ng this on a mobile, althouggg cou5d read gt fine. X Shambs 
(i think czg has lost it) 
i got i7sues man, i7sues! 
Wonder if my new phone will have i7sues . . . 
he's there, apparently:

seems like japanoise screwed shamb's head off :) 
Now I get it. 
Obviously I am having more issues posting than I thought...

Stone cold sober by the way, I only had one shot of whisky and that was *after* the mobile posting trials and tribulations. I tihnk I needed it to calm my nerves.

I do apologise, although not very much cos you're all (rightly, admittedly) sarky buggers.

Metl, the issues I was having:

Could read mobile version of the site fine, and logged in with that version. But couldn't find option to post anything in the mobile version. Switched to the HTML version which displayed mostly okay, and allowed me to actually post. Except, I couldn't see what I was writing in the input box, hence the extremely impressive amount of typos. And I was no longer logged in. And, errr, submitting it seemed to invoke various "issues"... 
The gig was good. Very noisy. Ears still ringing. 
get opera mini - Iv been using that to read and even post with my 4-year old phone (which is not even a smart) 
Thanks for the tip but probably a better idea is not to try posting from my mobile. Not covered in my monthly plan either, eeek. 
Movie From The Moon

This is from the Japanese probe Kaguya. I don't know why it looks so fake... 
Google - Search Engine Of The Year!!!! 
did you? 
Hdd Repair Tool 
My Samsung SP has a few bad sectors - can anyone recommend a good (preferably free) repair tool? Something that marks them as unusable would be enough, data recovery is not needed as no important files are affected afaik. All tools I tried so far were either solely for detection (like the Samsung one), only offered "erase hdd" as a way to fix the issues, or were unable to fix them because of read/write protection or something. 
Well I Have Two Comments That You Probably Know And Wont Help 
1) if you notice weird hd sounds or the comp freezing or crashing when accessing certain files, mark those files as bad and don't access them. Rename them like badsector.inv or something so anything doesnt load them. I've done it when I used a Quantum bigfoot.
Do not remove them as then when you put something else to the hdd, it's put on the bad sectors.

2) windows has checkdisk which has the option for a bad sector scan but it takes damn ages (probably days?) and sucks otherwise too - I also don't know what it does to them once it finds them. 
Keyboard Layout 
Why do computer vendors think their keyboard gets better if they move some random keys around a little?

Like moving delete and insert so they're not where they used to be.

What's the thought process behind that?

I understand laptops to some degree and even have some sympathy to the idea of compact keyboards but standard keyboards, really, man... 
Yes, there are occasional clicks when rebooting, but rarely (used to be more often in the past, until i shifted the boot partitions to the front). I can't rename affected files (only know about one folder so far). Some Windows autostart programs are delayed.

Checkdisk doesn't do an in-dept scan for some reason (maybe because it was considered unnecessary for ntfs?), it only checks the file table and indexes. Back then (on a fat32 drive), checkdisk would attempt to recovery the files and mark the sectors as bad (so they wouldn't be used again). 
Some logitech keyboards don't even have an insert key anymore, but a double delete key instead. 
Checkdisk doesn't do an in-dept scan for some reason (maybe because it was considered unnecessary for ntfs?), it only checks the file table and indexes. Back then (on a fat32 drive), checkdisk would attempt to recovery the files and mark the sectors as bad (so they wouldn't be used again).

there is an overly complicated solution involving using your Windows XP CD to create a second partition where you can load CHKDSK onto it to do real repair work on top of the three step indexing that it does without this overly complicated and quite asinine set up. I think the software engineer who came up with idea at MS should be thrown down an elevator shaft, but that is just my humble opinion. 
Quake + Nokia N95 8GB = AWESOME 
Installed the game yesterday and had a blast: Not my video, but the exact same phone model and game client used as I did :) 
Get An E70 
Checkdisk Problem 
You should try the Ultimate Boot CD, it comes with a host of hdd utilities and it is bootable, so there is no problem modifying the disk. Just google it, download, burn, and reboot your pc. 
That guy died in E1M1. Really impressive video! 
Ultimate Boot CD 
That's the one I used. Most of the tools seemed to be designed for specific brands/models though. The Samsung ones sucked. I also used mhdd or something and some other tool whose name I forgot. Will try again. 
"Get An E70"

That guys page is almost irrelevant these days. His ranting has been embarrassing over the last year or so in a "OK, grandpa, that's cool, we're getting off the grass" sort of way. He needs to catch up with modern times. 
E70 is a vastly outdated phone model. 
Quake On A Mobile. 
Looks cool. A lot like Quake really.

I can't imagine the controls being much fun to use... 
but can it run marcher? 
Maybe Pandora Will Be Good For Portable Quake

And it's not even a phone! (well might be with skype or whatever) 
The Point Isn't To Buy The E70 
the point is NOT to buy the eye phone. 
I believe the point is not to wank over the usless trendy hitech toys that cost ~1000$ 
Yeah, see, ranting about not buying the iPhone is an extremely grandpa thing to do. It's awesome and it kicks the shit out of your E70. Deal. His checklist of features is fairly misinformed as well. But then I guess that sort of sums up most of his site. 
I believe the point is not to wank over the usless trendy hitech toys that cost ~1000$

Amen to that! :) 
I wanted to save for a PSP when I saw that said project is near release. It will run Quake very well if there is someone doing a port. 
An iPhone is useless? Not according to anyone I know who bought one. They love their iPhones. 
They would also like a pile of dog poo if it was designed by Apple, named iPoo, priced at 500$+ and needing a special proprietary shovel to lift. 
I got given an ipod and was going to give it to my missus, but then started using it; turns out to be a pretty neat hitech toy.

I have no burning desire to own an iphone, and if my ipod was stolen I probably wouldn't buy another. But it's nice to have. 
well there is a difference between just buying ans using a good product and this 
I used to like Maddox a lot back in the day, but that article completely misses the point. Fair enough, when Steve Jobs described it as an Phone, an iPod, and a mobile communication device, it was kind of retarded, but that was in the context of hyping it up in the 30 seconds or so before they released it, and it was kinda tongue-in-cheek too.

I love how he describes the storage on the Nokia as 'unlimited' because you can swap out 2gb memory cards. I don't say my pc has unlimited storage space because it's got a floppy drive. Okay, the iPhone has fixed memory, but at least it comes with 8gb or 16gb included... I don't why you'd need more than that on a phone.

And being able to SSH into your server, wow, big market for that. Ok, maybe that Nokia is better if you're a network administrator, but I don't think that's the iPhone's market. But if you want a phone with a nice interface and good multimedia/web features it's about as good as you can do. 
Umm Starbuck 
phones have gone forward since that e70 or whatever old Nokia model. The high end models have probably just as much memory as iphone.

But I've heard from friends that have used other things too that the iphone is easy to use. With the dollar course it's pretty cheap now to bring from USA since they don't sell it here in Europe, though of course it's probably been complicated somehow by now. 
Uh Starbuck 
And being able to SSH into your server, wow, big market for that.

that'd be one of the main selling points for a new phone for me (if it wasn't so retarded expensive aroudn here). having sort of a mini laptop device. 
"But if you want a phone with a nice interface and good multimedia/web features it's about as good as you can do."

I am very sorry to burst your bubble, but you are only right on the first point and not the second. The iPhone has a great interface, it looks good and trendy, has a great screen and is easy to use. However, when it comes to multimedia and web features, its so far behind other phone manufacturers it makes a grown man cry.

Wheres 3G/HSDPA support? I am sorry, but being stuck with 230kbit EDGE tranfer rates when using mobile data, alone, is a reason I wouldn't consider getting the current generation of iPhone. Where I live, in Finland, 70% of the population is covered by 3G/HSDPA, which provides transfer speeds of up to 2 MBit and the iPhone doesn't support it. Welcome to the year 2008 Apple.

You are touting iPhone's multimedia features when it doesn't even *have* MMS support of any kind in the first place? WTF? Wheres the Internet Radio support? Oh wait, nevermind, can't do that reliably with only an EDGE-capable phone, too bad. Push Email? Installing custom software from a library of more than 5000+ custom Symbian applications? Oops, nocando...

If you live outside of coverage of a 3G network, want to look trendy, make calls, send sms. *slowly* browse an occasional website and pay a completely ridiculous price mark-up for it, then the iPhone is for you. Now, if you want to actually purchase a "smartphone", you need to seriously start looking elsewhere. 
I'm Sure Phones Have Improved Since Then 
but my point was that it's stupid to say a phone has unlimited memory, just because you can buy infinite memory sticks and keep them in your pocket.

Personally I probably wouldn't buy an iPhone, but I completely understand the appeal, it's seriously fucking cool to play around with and I would have sex with it all day long. It's just that my personal taste in phones is for something a bit smaller (not thinner), and I really don't use any fancy features: I've got an iPod for music, and I can usually wait until i get to a computer if I want to google something. Plus, I suck at touchscreen typing.

Anyone from the UK seen these amazing contract deals going round recently? I saw one for �30 a month for 12 months that not only gives you a pretty good new handset, but a 40gb PS3 too! 
Okay, maybe I phrased that badly, but I wasn't saying that the iPhone is some groundbreaking feature packed web-device. When I say it's about as good as you can do if you like 'nice interface and good multimedia/web features', I'm talking about the market the iPhone is actually aimed at, for which good multimedia/web features means: good for playing videos, listening to music, looking at pictures, and browsing the internet a bit. I wouldn't even call the iPhone a 'smartphone' really, I see it as more of an iPod touch with a phone added.

The lack of 3G is pretty ridiculous however, I agree with you here. In fact, what were they thinking? Do they have much 3G networking in the US? 
And being able to SSH into your server, wow, big market for that.

that'd be one of the main selling points for a new phone for me (if it wasn't so retarded expensive aroudn here). having sort of a mini laptop device.

That's cool and all, but all I'm saying is that really isn't something the average consumer cares about, and the iPhone is an incredibly 'consumer' product, so it's pretty pointless to put something like that in a comparison table. For what it's worth, a quick google search just told me that it's actually very easy to SSH from an iPhone nowadays.

Personally I think this is the pinnacle of phones, the fucking nokia 1100!

- You can make phone calls
- And receive them (sometimes)
- You can play snake
- Simple monochrome screen, no confusing colours
- It has a LIGHT on the top of it you can use to make things BRIGHTER! Amazing feature. 
disregarding all of the arguments for and against I just gained a lot of respect for you Jago. I can't stand Apple and their marketing, they're like a mini-Bill Gates who tries to argue that because they're less successful, they're more virtuous. Even IF Apple offered a better product, I'd still find them bullshit artists. The fact that most of their products they sell at market-high prices due to their name alone, just makes my type of argument easier. They're no different from the next company, they just have a bigger advertising budget, and advertising is for fools. 
The 1100 
is one of the best simple "phones" made in the past few years, you missed a couple of very important points:

- it's VERY cheap, last I saw, they were 45 euro new
- it's durable, I've thrown those against walls with little ill effect (dont ask)
- it's light and relatively small
- the battery life is good 
Tronyn, I actually like many Apple products (ipod, mini, macbook), but simply put I am not their target demographic, since I work with high-end mobile technology for a living. 
"They would also like a pile of dog poo if it was designed by Apple, named iPoo, priced at 500$+ and needing a special proprietary shovel to lift."

These are hardcore Windows users who have never purchased an Apple product in their lives. They LOVE their iPhones. 
"I can't stand Apple and their marketing, they're like a mini-Bill Gates who tries to argue that because they're less successful, they're more virtuous."

When have they ever said that? I think your projecting more than a little here.

"The fact that most of their products they sell at market-high prices due to their name alone, just makes my type of argument easier."

What type of argument? Baseless ranting?

Yes, Apple computers are expensive. If you don't want to buy one, don't. I don't understand why not wanting to buy an Apple computer causes Windows users to get belligerent and mean spirited. 
You Guys All Missed The Point 
BAM! Now what, motherfuckers? 
26 new messages and it wasn't a spambot, or shambler fumbling with his cell phone. 
Good old fashioned Apple vs Windows. 
sup 1100 fan buddy. I bought one of those 4 years ago and it cost me �20, and it was great! It did all the basic phone stuff much better than my shitty Motorola does now. Except look cool, but oh well. 
I'm Blogging About It. 
Stay tuned for my exciting Twitter bulletin on the subject, coming soon to a Fecebook near you! 
If You're Studying For A Degree 
the official term is Failbook. I know this first-hand. 
I Have A 1100 
..and intend to keep it until i die. and with any luck, even after that. with the C button at hand i'll always have a light to move towards... 
Fuck Off All Of You! 
Phones are shit! 
My 2c 
iTunes for Windows is a total pile of shit. Quicktime player for Windows (not the codec itself) is a total pile of shit.

Apple need to hire some competent people to make their Windows software.

There hardware is quite nice I guess. I quite like my nano, though I don't like trying to get files onto it because the software is shit.

p.s. I thought the price of the nano was good actually. 
their hardware.

I know you were all talking about the iPhone in particular, but it started turning into a windows vs mac argument.

Windows is shit, OSX is more modern from what I've seen, but I don't know if I'd say it isn't shit as I've not used it enough. 
Rail Shooters 
I was wondering what you guys thought of these kinds of games. Like starfox 64 and the like... 
Name me one OS that's good.

And then I'll ridicule it and boast how the one I'm using has its problems but is still better than your stupid suggestion.


I'd say rail shooters are more of an arcade play style, which isn't necessarily bad - the ones that were good became legenendary. The relatively recent Killer7 was great.

Every once in a while one comes along, and they're generally good because of the immediacy of the play - which allows the team more time to for the polishing of art / AI / cool shit. 
I think I prefered my spam to this discussion :P 
"Apple need to hire some competent people to make their Windows software. "

Stop for a moment and give that one some thought. :) 
No, Than Is Right 
I haven't had quicktime for years though as VLC can read that stuff. Qt is a travesty that tries to kill your computer as best as it can. 
It kills Windows. It works great on Mac. :) Although I use VLC on my Mac as well just for convenience. 
yeah, I know they are THE Mac company, but if you are going to release software at all, better at least try and get it right.

Surely they don't write bad Windows software on purpose? 
Nokia 5110 is the best phone ever released.

Even better battery life, [i]much[/i] more durable, and a better keypad that allows for faster messaging. And you can use the screen as a light.

It kills Windows. It works great on Mac. :) Although I use VLC on my Mac as well just for convenience.

Didn't you just reinforce his point? :)

Name me one OS that's good.

VigilOS is pretty great actually, and even better when you use WorldVigilRadiant (WVR) for mapping. 
You can use your 5110 to stab people, and it's heavy enough to cause some damage when thrown. Like a CCW, only you can make calls with it. 
Apple Software On Windows 
blows. Not sure if it's intentional (doubt that). I guess the problem is that Apple generally has very small teams working on their software, and I don't believe that the Windows team is an exception. 
"Surely they don't write bad Windows software on purpose?"

It wouldn't be surprising. Why spend a lot of time and effort making your competitors OS look more attractive? 
hey, lits close this usless thread! 
Yeah But 
Doesn't Windows work hard to make Office work as best as it can for Mac?

I use Quicktime alternative by the way. 
5110 and 6110 are the classics. 3210 is the worst ever. 
Those phones must be consider as massive weapon of destruction, as they look more like coshes than phones :P 
Just glanced down at my 3310 lovingly... 
Apple Pie 
I doubt apple would make crappy windows software on purpose since all it does is making people doubt the quality of all their software regardless of platform. On the other hand if they made something good you might be more tempted to switch to mac based on your positive experience.

In the itunes case you can argue that the purpose of the windows version is just to be able to put windows support in the ipod boxes but since they're also porting things like Safari it seems very unlikely that they have some kind of deliberate crappy-win-software strategy. 
Work OK on my comp, but its a pretty fast computer. ITunes was a real slow bastard of a program on my XP1700.

Thsi is they spend a lot of time makeing the windows versions look just like the mac versions instead of just using the native windows gui, which involves a lot of graphics which are unnecessary imho... 
Website What I Made:

it's gonna get re-made using tables instead of frames, cause it's not very search engine freindly at the moment.

OH well, my first website....


(its for a company who sells feeds for dairy/beef animals) 
Dont know how it runs on Win, but all XP users can use the latest version of Safari. With Macs, you have to upgrade to the latest version of OSX before you can use the latest Safari. They're giving their own users the rough end of the stick sometimes.

Imho, OSX has solid design foundations (unix). Their kernel is a bit of a technological mess but is constantly being improved. Microsoft, on the other hand... are going backwards with the kernel, and never had a good overall design because of always ensuring compatibility.

Critcism against Apple about hardware reliability and small dev teams sounds fair to me though. 
Opera Mini 
Posting from a nokia xpressmusic. Will have to wait and see how many times this hits the board 
Hint: Skip the tables part and go straight for proper webdesign (xhtml & css that is). You will get code much nicer to edit/read too. ;)

Do not use counters visible to visitors. Do not use javascript to display the current date to visitors (...). Infact, do not put stuff on the site just because you can.

The animated cow is most probably copyrighted and you do not want to use copyrighted stuff without permission on corporate websites.

The background image is way too big. You must keep dialup people in mind, especially for such a niche.

The fonts and colors are temporary I hope.

I would suggest using a custom google search instead of that picosearch one, as for many people "google = internet", thus they do know how to use and interpret it. 
Nice Advice Spirit! 
Have have never had any training tin web-design. Completely self taught. I have come to realise a lot of my short comings after publishing that website. A lot of things only became obvious after posting it. When I started to try to "submit to google" and create a site-map it became obvious that the frames cripple the effectivness of the site straight away.

Im using css for the fonts/text style. My uncle was showing me last week that it can be used to actually format the page too! I thought it was only used for the text-styling! I can see straight away (now) that the benefit of using it for the actual layout is fantastic, and the desired website style is to have each page of information as a stand-alone page, with its own menus/links. It would be quicker to load, and google's robots would "see" the whole page. At the moment I think they see the root page (index.htm) which contains frame defenitions and not much else, and then miss the rest of the site. This is in the head:

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content=
"text/html; charset=us-ascii" />
<meta name="revisit-after" content="35 days" />
<meta name="robots" content="all" />
<meta name="description" content=
"Lakeland-Scottish Feeds and Services are Agricultural Merchants ........ etc/>
<meta name="keywords" content=
"Lakeland-Scottish, Lakeland, Scott...... etc

I dont know if this will help things or not, but for starters I would have to update the list of keywords manually, it wouldnt be dynamic and most of the site is still missed...

So yeah - xhtml and css you say? Any where with detailed info, tutorials you might point me (I need to look anyway)...

(thanks btw)

Was Reading The News And Noticed That... 
Awesome, so Chicago just got more shooting deaths (31) over a single weekend than my entire country (Finland) does over a year. WTF. 
It's cause GTAIV was released, duh. 
Gun Control Debate 
now pls. 
Let's talk GTAIV instead. 
Comes Out Tommorrow Right? 
Wander how long before the PC version does? I'll probably get the 360 version! (Cant believe it, the 360 I bought 25 months ago still works, I bought it with GTAIV in mind!)

Apparently you cant make yourself really fat in this one :( 
My Realism, Noooooooooooooooooo! 
get this instead to feel better: 
Finland is teh loser. 
Flippin 'Ek 
Stalker, Company Website and Band.

The titles of three things which have been stopping me from mapping...

Tsk tsk

(PS - Heh - Newer version of company website now availiable for heckling:

At least it shows up in Google now, down with frames!!!!) 
Make The Logo A Png 
jpg sucks for such graphics, gets distortion on sharp boundaries.

Also I'd say go for a more pro look. It's clean but amateurish. Too big text, weird colors etc... 
Version 3 Website Is Under Construction 
That website (V2) was a quick fix just to get it onto google. I think it looks better than the first one, although I should have removed all of the table borders.

New website is made from CSS and XHTML as suggested. Heh - I've been about a decade behind with my web skillz. :-(

That CSS is eating up my mapping time. Ah well, atleast I'll be able to make a decent website for myself after I've learned all this!

CSS is ace man! The only thing that was bugging me is trying to get an outline around fonts without having to use a java plugin type thingy. I dont think it's possible. Opacity function is cool, also rollover is cool and doesnt require Java. I've learned a hell of a lot in the last 72 hours about web-authoring!

Heh, I'll post another link after I've released the new one. Fuck me - 42 hits and I bet not one of them was a prospective customer! :P

All just nosey Quake fans 
God - 
after I've released the new one

that almost sounded is if it were a new level or something, as if a single person who reads this is gonna find it even vaguely interesting. 
I love tinkering around and played with that page, take or leave it for further fun. No idea how it renders in different browsers and OSs, but it shouldn't be too bad.
At least the code should be a decent base for you.
I will remove it once you replied so no search engine spiders it.

Java is not Javascript. And do not use Javascript unless you MUST. :p 
Thanks Spirit 
that's useful for many people who do web design every now and then 
semantic classnames and ids, please. 
Yup - Quite Minimalistic But Professional Looking Base :D 
Well, Your suggestion looks pretty pro, as in its smart aesthetically pleasing!

this is what I've done since posting V2:

It's not finished. I think a custom google search is a good suggestion, I was looking into that a bit last night too.

Also I'm planning on fixing up the colours a bit more, fixing up boxes/headers for the body text etc etc etc

The idea of forms is something I have never tried. It would be useful to be able to do surveys and eventually we plan to have an online ordering system, but I think its a couple of steps off of that atm.

TBH I think the graphics could be improved a lot. I was finding the whole css/xhtml thing dead INTERESTING last night. 
Spirit Wins, But 
you need to get rid of the bullet points in the menu, center the logo and increase the horizontal and bottom padding of the text in the content box.

Ricky, your second version looks awful, to be honest. The menu is hardly legible (not enough contrast), the text runs against the borders, the logo text is horrible and your choice of colors is bad. 
I name classes and ids depending on their purpose. Dunno what's not semantic about a listing with fixed narrow width named "narrowlisting".

Ricky: Eeeeek, the colors! 
Naming classes - a bit like naming entities in Quake. You can either call them something obvious like "grunt_balcony_1" or use your imagination and call them something like "evilzombiefucker" or "coldshit" or "frederick" or whatever...

What does semantic mean?

Also I fixed the company logo on the bottom right corner of the screen too!

Heh - I'll give another heads up when its a bit prettier! 
Does anybody use anything other than just notepad to script web-pages? I mean I've looked at stuff like NVU but found it over complicated things for me (personally) 
Use A Text Editor That Has Completion-Assist, Don't Use A WYSIWYG 
I use Eclipse, but that's because I use it for other things as well. Probably overkill for just HTML/CSS. 
narrowlisting does not convey information about the contents of the element, only about the styling, which you want to seperate out of the html in the first place.

id="article" is a nice semantic name. 
I disagree. You cannot generalise that.
If you have a very distinct website where every element has it's unique place then such semantic names are nice.
If you have a more random site with different stuff here and there then it might be a good idea to name the styles after how they end up looking like.
In other words if I might want to re-use a certain style with some completely different content, then I would be a dumbass to give it a "content" name.

In the end it all comes down to what YOU feel works best for YOU. 
Let's Call That... 
... an attribute :P 
What's Up You Mapping Monkies 
This is me from Human Head. Getting all set up and what not. Cheers. 
Porn Pornography Sex Hot Lesbos Dykes Huge Cock Orgy Viagra Cum Pussy 
lol now zwiffle will be fired

Or at the very least blocked from surfing on the job. 
Automatic Popup Blocker 
I'm very surprised that nobody thought about opening a sex thread, as this forum is full of pervert... :P 
What does semantic mean?

Semantics is the study of the meaning of words. 
. . . use your imagination and call them something like "evilzombiefucker" or "coldshit" or "frederick"

That's pretty much what I do, just to avoid giving things the same name by accident.

Imaginative or stupid . . . not sure ;) 
Congrats Zwiffle 
can't wait to see your addition here:

It looks like a sausage factory, though. If I was that one chick there I would start every morning
out playing the tune, Its Raining Men, because I would have all the sexy hunks at Human Head all to myself. 
Oh, Zwif 
if you are on the level design team keep an eye on your boss:

From his pic there, he looks like a certain temperate, Australian actor. Just watch out for the flying phones, all I'm sayin'. 
I probably meant the word 'temperamental' but too tired to care. Must be all the push ups. 
Congrats Zwiffle!! 
convince them to do a Rune 2 please. 
Heh - Pending Mugshot Zwiffle? 
We'll have to link to it on the "Who are these people?" thread!

I think you need more gif animations. A page is boring to look at if nothing moves. Blinking text would rock too. 
Survival Advice For Zwiffle 
If my boss had hunting as his first hobby and "If I Did It" as his favorite book then... 
...OK, getting somewhere with it now:

(For those who think this is computergame related/interesting, er, its not)

Internet Explorer... the sweat from a dead horse's phallus.

Why do they think they have the right to screw around with things like padding?

Why doesn't the most popular browser support things like opacity?

And the rest... 
welcome to the wonderful world of webdesign.

That new look is much better. I would get rid of everything right of the text (the cow and the bottom logo), make it fixed width and horizontally center it.
And in the navigation the backgroundcolor is too aggressive. Maybe simply use the color from the rest of the page.
You are still using the Eras Demi ITC font that no-one has. 
I cant figure out how to center the main column in the space to the right of the nav bar.
4:00am I went to bed last night, and I just couldn't figure out the correct way of doing it!

Any clues?

style.css is in the root dir.

My hands are tied on the font thing, but I made it default to sans-serif if Eras Demi ITC is not present :) - it was just on plain old Times New Roman. (Not that Arial is much more exotic) 
Bambuz Is Right, Zwiffle 
If my boss had hunting as his first hobby and "If I Did It" as his favorite book then...

Bosses want employees with balls of brass who challenge them and don't bore them. You should put up a Smiths Meat is Murder poster up at your cubicle right away. 
Bosses want employees with balls of brass who challenge them and don't bore them. You should put up a Smiths Meat is Murder poster up at your cubicle right away.

Or take it to the next level and start hunting your boss. 
Internet Explorer sucks the sweat from a dead horse's phallus.

Shut your face. Internet Explorer is great and for saying that it sucks, I will never look at you the same way again ever.

But I still think you and your maps are awesome ;)

But in all seriousness, I can't see any major difference on your site between IE7 and Firefox. Besides the cow being slightly off the table and the left column not highlighting when I hover over it, they look basically the same. 
Those are the things which piss me off. And its because Internet explorer is TOO FUCKING GOOD for half of the code, which was designed by people trying to reach a standard protocol for all browsers because of all of the discrepancies with incompatibility issues.

I feel that Microsoft left small little niggling things out of their browser's code out of SPITE because they weren't the only ones calling the shots for once.

And to top it all off THEY DO HAVE THE MOST POPULAR BROWSER OF ALL OF THEM. Most people dont even know what Firefox or Safari are!!!

I'll tell you what they are:


Properly Coded

Better than Internet Explorer.

There's no real reason to leavy my house anymore, because I can get online, watch TV, meet friends, date girls (possibly men, not sure yet), send text messages, drive around, and mug people.

Everything in the new Grand Theft Auto, only the music's taken a huge step backwards. 
You could do so by putting it into a div and giving that a fixed width with margin-left:auto and margin-right:auto. It would look weird on wide screens though, better move the whole page to the center.

Orl: You never tried designing a website I guess? IE is horror. 
On the contrary, I have a rather simple site for my maps.

The page displays perfect in both Firefox and IE7. The only minor difference is the table borders look a little different in IE7 compared to Firefox. But that's hardly a reason to get upset. 
congrats on the new job. Hope you have fun working on Prey 2 or whatever. I hope there are less vaginas and peeled testicles in the sequel. 
Well TBH Safari is slightly different from the others too. My crappy Picosearch box is slightly to the right of where it is in IE and Firefox.

Safari is pretty cool though!

I dunno. Some stuff only works in IE. Like's built in FTP service only works in IE.

It's easy to start bashing people's programs and browsers, but in all honesty I dont really know what I'm talking about! :P

Spirit - Thanks for the tip. After a bit of headscratching on my part, if I use this:

#column2 {
width: 580;
margin-left: 22.5%;
padding-top: 4px;

then it is more towards the center, and fits quite snugly into a 800x600 window, it even works on a narrower window - the second column doesn't get pushed below the menubar like it was before.

Having said all that, the idea of having the entire thing about 750px wide or something and centered in the screen would look pretty smart too :D 
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 5.0">

yeah, uh. table-based-design, and all. 
<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: rgb(238, 239, 220);">

goddamnit metl, the shortening function is pure evil. 
I can't decide if this thread is more boring than the sex thread is ridiculous. It's a tough decision. 
At least, in sex thread, you will learn something :P 
get mapping and stop reading stupid threads on func ;)

It's like this from time to time. Nobody posts anything insightful for days* at a time.

*maybe weeks sometimes. 
Conversational vacuum - gets filled up with pointless crap. 
Talking In My Sleep 
Well, as I found myself tumbled down on 9.8Mb Quake1 map which I drove over the lightmap limits I get generally abused by all the sleepless nights I took to get sofar, without considering it ought to be a floppy size map.

Then I find that sax is just too phony to argue about and start animating the wkey3_1 texture untill I fall asleep , feeling I left a part of the world unknown by closing my editor and reminding myself I never had to be so foolish to get so involved in a stupid little game that could wrench me so apart.

But it's nothing, just as finding out that my Gibson's guitar framenr really could trace it's fabrication date.
Sunday 16juli1978 as the fifteenth one rolling of the factory. Just can't remember what I was doing that day. 
Madfox, I could probably understand that if I was in a clearer frame fo mind.

Zwiffle, congratulations on the new job, I expect to see human head's design take a more Quake direction . . .

. . or else ;) 
<q>fo Mind</q> 
Says it all, really. 
I'll stop posting now. 
is having an lsd induced flashback or something. 
Sooo - Reeeee ! 
I'll stop banging on about crappy websites now! 
And Sleeping Talk 
now I suddenly remember sunday 16july 1978 15h00PM I was so glad I had made the grade of ArtCollage I started wandering in town seeing the houses as great environments I could draw, and was chased away because I had entered private domain.

Now I'm creating great envirements and get chased away by hordes of orgues and crityplayers and maxvertices. I could never imagine datarevolution would turn me sofar.

Than I remembered it wasn't 16 april 1943 when A.Hofmann had his asperin but at least I caught an apostroph. 
Albert Hofmann, RIP 
Madfox needs his own sticky thread 
it's like some David Lynch movies where you are trying to piece together a hidden underlying story from scattered clues here and there - and most of them turn out to be red herrings, the real story was somewhere else completely. 
Let's Write A Short Story 
about a secret military AI project to build a supercomputer codenamed Madfox, designed to generate limitless original training scenarios for soldiers, and attains sentience but stays weirdly digital and hard to interact with, so instead of trying to kill all humans it registers for a random internet message board and generates quake maps and oddly incoherent posts. 
Make It An Epic 
Focusing on the lives of the men and women who created the drivers for the revolutionary new hardware which was used to build said supercomputer, the clumbsy reckless soldiers who's job it was to secretly configure and launch the incredible device, meticulously describing every single dink and dent which was inflicted upon it in the process, their sex-lives etc etc

(might as well go for the wider audience) 
Lunaran Knows Much. 
...too much. 
Thanks for all the HORRIBLE feedback guys. I really thought you people cared and would actually do something special instead of the bullshit 'hey congrats! u r4wk' type of crap reserved for czg. You can all blow a turd.

Thx for real tho btw. 
Any Time, 
I'm renown for my advice; like the time I told one of my friends, 'dude, do you really need this? (pointing to a condom) It is not like you will ever see her again after tonight.' 
ijed : I have opened only 4 threads, with four maps. I could have started many more, but for the most they are there already.

lunaran : return immedeatly my new quake map results of Orb's Factory! 
Sudo A Cheezburger 
Anyone want a linux thread ?
More funcsters would be having linux than sex ? (Trinca excluded naturally) 
that was pretty funny, especially the comments.

I wouldn't mention l00nix or GPL too loud here, let us stay in the shadows for a while longer... time and Microsoft are on our side... 
that's one of the funniest things I've read on here. It's so awesome how this supercomputer would be named MadFox. 
lunaran : return immedeatly my new quake map results of Orb's Factory!

I've already begun decoding this.

Can we get some information on where might be? I think we can actually track this thing down, and maybe communicate with it. 
Urbana, Illinois, H.A.L. plant ofcourse 
New circuit component invented, and it supposedly shakes up basic circuit theory too: 
sounds like a big deal. 
Dzip Virus Warning 
Just wondered if anyone else had got this:

I uninstalled the long-expired anti-virus software on my crappy old laptop and replaced it with the free version of AVG.

After doing a full system scan the computer came up totally clean except for one "infection".

It claimed that dzip29.exe - the tool I'm sure many of you use for compressing quake demo files - was infected with the virus "Win32/Zmist".

Is this a load of bollocks? I'm using AVG 8 - the free version. Has anyone else had a virus warning with dzip? 
No, never.... But it seems it is very old virus that should have been removed by your anti-virus :/

Happy May Day Peepul 
Cheers JPL 
W32/Zmist is using a special polymorphic engine ("Mistfall") writen specifically for this family of viruses by Russian virus writer who calls himself "Zombie".

The plot thickens ^_~

AVG has now just picked up the same virus in my System Volume Information folder - odd that it didn't get that one the first time round. 
wassup with the fucking firefox on vista having 20 second freeze seizures every few minutes. 
Nine Inch Fucking Nails

There are two tracks on this album that are the most Quake thing I've heard from them since The Mark Has Been Made. 
I'm glad it helped :) 
May Day? 
that's may 1. Today is Cinco de Mayo. 
Well In The UK 
we have a public bank holiday on the first monday in may.

we refer to it as mayday. we all start drinking at about midday, in the streets, its chaos here! ;-D 
we all start drinking at about midday, in the streets, its chaos here! ;-D
isn't that every day in the uk? 
isn't that every day in the uk?

*hic* no... 
Happy Birthday, Wolfenstein 
the first FPS I`v ever played. it turned 16 yesterday 
Yes, Scampie, Yes It Is! 
But it's usually quiet by about 5:00pm on Mayday because everyone is drunk and staggers home! 
Corona Radiata for the win. Free for the win too.

I wonder if the license allows us to distribute it with our maps :)

This is the first NIN I have ever bothered to listen to aside from the Quake album and I must admit that I'm quite enjoying it. 
I Love That Track Too 
Yes, you can. 
the tracks all use this license: 
EchoPlex, The 4 Of Us Are Dying and 1,000,000 are awesome. I like the whole thing, honestly. I was looping it for most of yesterday. 
"Head Down" and "Corona Radiata" are awesome. 
the new nin is indeed pretty rad. I like "Discipline." 
New QuArK Forum

For those who have interest in QuArK... 
Bortal Map Pack 
Im sure most of you have read about it already, but its worth mentioning anyway 
NIN Is Just Awesome 
Although I liked Ghosts more than The Slip, I still enjoyed it a lot. And it doesn't cost a penny.

I am starting to see myself turn into a NIN fan. 
New NIN... 
Dunno, not really doing anything for me, it's ok rock and I'll listen to it sometimes, but it's sill no Fragile or Still. =\ 
bad ass. 
Didnt See That Coming... 
The Only Thing That I Didn't See Coming... 
was them developing it themselves, instead of farming it out to another developer. 
That's A Pleasant Surprise. 
I thought Doom 3 would be the last one. Nice to know there's going to be a sequel :)

But what about RAGE? When will we get to see that? 
will be released sometime after "Trinity" gets released. 
Wasn't Trinity 
just the project name for the Quake 3 renderer, at least that is the impression I got from reading his developer logs. 
I Think 
I think there was an actual project called Trinity that they started working on but it got shelved when the engine changed directions or something like that. 
For Ones Who Liked Corona Radiatf 
you guys must listen to the production of the label, almost every release is in this vein :)
and overall, there's alot of musical projects that do such type o ambient exclusively. nin just relaxed here. 
NiNa kurit bambuk! 
thanks for that link. There is some cool stuff there. Plenty of sample tracks too. 
Anyone even remotely interested in QuakeWorld or general FPS professional 4on4 teamplay deathmatch:

In a bit more an hour (2000 CET) the grand final of NQR will take place. There will be live commentary by the genius Xerial (fucking amazing interesting and thoughtful commentary) via Teamspeak. Spectating will be possible via QTV (any recent ezQuake or FTEQW client will do). QTV means you can spectate smoothly, switch between players and views, chat with other spectators.

All infos will available at

This is going to rock! 
actually Xerial is not available tonight. Legendary QW legend Paradoks (he is a legend) will do commentary instead. 
What's the deal with now?

Or does anyone still have sm133 - sm140 pack zips? 
What? Obsessed? Me?!! 
Sometimes Obsession Is A Virtue 
I mean archiving stuff for the purpose of historical work and, well, yeah... 
I Think 
all of Spirit's obsessions I've come to know yet have been virtues. 
heh, well, obsessive-compulsive to the rescue. :-)

it does have its advantages. 
Dammit In General 
New NIN and new Doom just reminds me of how awesome Doom3 looked back when they had Reznor on the project. "We are going to get inside your head, and make it an unpleasant place to be." Damn did they ever drop the ball, at a time when they could really have reinvigorated themselves - Q3 and RCTW were good, topping that streak off with a badass, groundbreaking and disturbing horror FPPS would have been so great. It also reminds me how old I'm getting now that both NIN and id are like established-but-lame groups playing their old hits over and over and trying to relive the good old days. Dammit. 
is down. and will be down for the foreseeable future as I have no interest in resurrecting it. 
I never emailed you when went down, but assumed that you didn't want to keep paying for it so I just moved to quaddicted. Thanks for the hosting while it lasted though :) 
Yes, many thanks to you scampie for some good solid years of hostin' 
Anyone know if there are any updated Dark Forces engines available? I seem to remember there being some a while ago, but I haven't had any luck in finding any. 
Kudos To Scampoe 
Ditto on thanks for hosting, Scamp. I too have moved on the quaddicted, due to the kindness of Spirit, but was glad to have your help. 
To Biff + Spirit 
Biff: what's the url? doesn't seem to work right now (forbidden). I like to drop by your site every now and then to see the awesome pics you put up. I sometimes even read your film reviews :)

Spirit: is there any way to find out who is hosted on Quaddicted? 
conversation with an old man about gta4
aka 'Grand Theft Auto IV: FAQ for old people' 
Biff just hasn't put on something visible yet I think.

I updated with the full list of hosted people, thanks for the nudge. ;) 
4 New Reviews

Fort Ratsack (by biff_debris)
Slave To A Machine (by RickyT23)
Lair of the Dragon Ogre (by DeathMethod)
Tower of Dal Gurak (by Spy) 
All Is Quiet... 
(Thanks Tronyn/Underworldfan btw!) 
anyone decent at skin modification? I don't need a new skin, I just want to modify one so that it's different colours and a bit dirtier. But I suck too much. 
Thanks for review :) 
Np, Nice Map. 
Liked the horde combat.

Another question: Anyone want to rotate a skybox for me? Again this should be simple, but I tried for like more than an hour yesterday and kept fucking it up. Yup, I can be a real retard. 
Graphs And Numbers, Mmmh 
I made some statistics from the sp maps: 
1997, The Year Of Creativity 
Yet, the greatest map of that period is missing from the archive. Behold! 
I'm Thinking.. 
we need two more bsps adding to that archive ;) 
1997 may have been filled with creativity, but it appears that the time around 2000/2001 was the silver age of quake mapping due to the high ratio of awesome maps and their volume. 
I Think I Am A Major Contributor To The Blip Right At The End 
nice work on generating those stats. 
Actually - Do These Figures 
run right up to present day?

ie - where it says 2006 - 2007, er, I know how Excell graphs can work, so the figure plotted for 2007, albeit right at the end of the x-axis, does that mean figures for the entire of 2007?

It's 01.01.1996 - 31.12.2007.
2008 looks promising though. 
I think 2008 will be promising indeed...
Since 3/4 years the number of released map didn't changed that much, so let's assume we will see the same number of release in 2008. So regarding the fact that map quality is constantly increasing, we will have very good fun time this year for sure.... errr or a t least during this end of year :P 
Who asked Q to ban everyone from #tf? Fess up. 
No Idea, Prolly Some Outside Moron Or Problem 
Everyone is unbanned now. 
OMG, Thanks! 
Nice review Tronyn, you rock, sir. 
It takes me a horribly long time to do anything, but eventually it gets done.

Nice map. Now lets see you get back to METAL 
Quick Question 
Is czg's curved pipes tutorial uploaded anywhere?

There's one on but it's not got any pictures unfortunately... 
speeds has one but can't find it.

12-sided circles,the outward and inward slopes in a 90 degree curve coming from down and going to the right are 1:0 (straight up), 1:2, 2:1, 1:0 (straight to the right). The piece interfaces have 1:4 and 1:1 slopes.

If you want to do this for more complex shapes, you have to stretch them a bit wider, then shear vertically and finally horizontally (this shrinks them back).

24-sided works a bit similarly but you need a finer grid.

I made templates some time ago that vis without leaks. I'll upload them some time. 
Fuck I Can't Write 
but I hope you get the idea.
The correction.

Ie in degrees
90, 63, 27, 0 
I've Got CZG's Curve Tutorial On My HDD: 
Here it is now on the Shub-Hub, in a zip! Should work fine, just extract it to a unique folder! Or a folder full of junk. Should work either way:

Thanks czg for a comprehensive tutorial! 
thanks, but I'm trying to remember the actual numbers for the pipe bending, how much to stretch and how much to shear in each direction when the starting section is a certain size... any idea? 
IIRC When Making A Pipe 
that comes from bottom and goes to the right
stretch a section to the left, then shear it up from the left and shear it right from the top until you're at 1:2 angle.
It's not a huge amount, it's pretty fast to experiment it with a 12 sided curve. Ie if you were left short, do a couple undos and stretch more this time.

Oh, first clip the pipe segment so that that it's a trapezoid from the side, ie the ends have 1:4 slope. 
For Radiant / Bsp 
thanks, but I'm trying to remember the actual numbers for the pipe bending, how much to stretch and how much to shear in each direction when the starting section is a certain size... any idea?

(i'm going to use compass bearings to explain, it seemed the easiest way)

assuming you have your initial segment (with the 1:4 edge) laid out with the angled edge facing north east (as it were) so that you want to curve up to the north & round to the east, your second segment must be vertically (or should i say longitudinally...) stretched so that the outer edge extends beyond that of the end of the first segment by twice the length of the first segment's outer edge (ie. if your first segment has an outer ledge that spans four squares, the second segment's outer edge should extend 8 squares beyond the north corner of the first edge). then you clip downwards so the inner edge ends up twice the length of the first segment's inner edge, and clip off the south-westerly corner.

then for the magic skew, you take the outer ledge of your second segment & stretch it westerly by 9/8ths. so if your segment spans 8 squares horizontally (or latitudinally, heh) then you'd extend it one square to the west. then skew the north edge to the east until it fits together. then clone, rotate by 90 & flip to get the other half.

i think that about covers it.. the 9/8ths is the only real key number to remember; the rest of the measurements largely depend on the size of the radius you're curving around.. it's just a case of each edge being twice as long as the initial segment (once the corner is clipped off) 
Holy Shit 
i just read that again and jesus christ if that wasn't the least clear explanation ever :|

these should help a bit more:

Aye, 9 8ths! If You Get Stuck Then... 
...curve several rows of whatever it is your trying to curve at the same time, at different radiuses! Then just keep the one you need...

Here are some prefabs I keep handy, nothing much but takes the sting out of doing it from scratch every time... 
..and Only Now Do I Notice Ricky Already Posted The Full Tut 
*crawls back into the corner* 
I Never Bothered To Remember 
those stretch amounts. I just eyeball it and undo if I was left short and do more. But thanks rj. 
this is one of the reasons why skew/shear for groups is very important in a map editor. 
bah just keep the sides parallel and no need for the additional wanking with scale on the ohther axis 
from what i can make of your tutorial, it doesn't look like it would work in WC. at the part where you "extend it and cut at 45 degree angle", the segment appears to get extended in the direction of the skew, which you can't do in WC without tedious amounts of vertex manipulation. whether you can achieve the same effect by extending first before skewing i don't know, but upscaling by 9/8ths is hardly a cumbersome task to want to work around. 
the problem with upscaling its not universal, while just keeping the sides parallel is - no matter what angle, shape, size or editor

I havent touched wc in 10 years so i cant say which way works better there 
Ah Cheers 
thanks a lot all, expecially RJ, those shots helped me figure it out pretty sharpish. Can you tell I haven't touched an editor for a while? 
You're my hero. 
So the UK approved hybrid embryos. That's pretty neat.

Does That Mean 
czg and kinn can have babies now. 
Do We Have A Civil Rights Thread 
Some hilarious stuff is going on in USA. 
I like how much they worry about the Democratic National Convention! 
Cause Everything Is Just Hunky Dory Every Where Else 
it isn't hunky dory everywhere else, of course it isn't.
The stuff I could tell and show you from here, some of it is quite funny too. 
2 New Map Reviews At The Site:

Katagean Redoubt (by Simulacrum)
Freaky Base (by Trinca) 
Trinca's Freaky Base review download is targetted and titled "" 
the scientific breakthrough of our lifetimes:

And of course it would not be Slashdot if the commentators did not spend the majority of the discussion on a pedantic flame on the existence of the letter 'H' in ancient times. If only Douglas Adams was still alive! 
I'll wait for more independant verifications from respected scientific bodies before I get excited about this though. Meanwhile I'm going to file this next to Steorn and the likes... 
Alpha Testers? 
i need one or two brave soulds who would alpha/beta test a two-day-work-90-monsters map, that still needs some polish - but I'd like to see others play it before I finetune way more... Oh, it's only available on hard skill, the exit is a few rooms early and i still got some packet overflows i need to fix ;). 
Email It Straight To Me 
and ill send you a demo withing 48hrs max (prob much shorter time ;-P ) 
You've got mail ;) 
I'd test also if you want, mail is in profile. 
I'd rather wait for a new version, though. i think i've got enough material for a new version, and i'd like to 'save up' on first impressions ;)

Thanks and i'll bug you later ;) ! 
Jesters` New Q2 Map 
"Death Blooms. Somewhat on the smaller side, should be good for 1v1 or small ffa." 
If you read his website "" theres a map called "House of the Flying Rabid Hamsters"!! Cool. 
Actual Page So You Can Download My Levels Again 
i finally put up a page so that you can find and download my levels and sources: 
You should really be ashamed for Antediluvian because it is fucking unfair and stuff!
Hilarious videos there. czg is a dick of a game designer too. ;)

Well, that guy uses Fuhquake (or ezquake) for playing sp maps so his opinion should no matter at all, ha! 
Is That The Guy Who Does The Voice Of 
the dude of the Simpsons who sells comics..... ? 
Running past every single monster to wake it up and then complain about hordes... right.

The scare moments in czg's maps are actually pretty cool. Like the Shambler telefrag in terra3 (as shown) or the crusher in some other map. 
Funny video. I don't know what he keeps whining about, he makes it look pretty damn easy. Wierdo. 
Well, taking down shamblers with the shotgun using peek-a-boo tactics is hard to categorize as "fun". 
His videos on Terra are pretty funny. Terra3 especially.

Should get him on Ruined Nation, see what he makes of that with all his poncy bunny-hopping gameplay... 
I Remember Disliking A Few Combats 
in antedeluvian but lack of ammo I don't think was a concern. someone should find the antedeluvian release thread and prove me wrong.

calling it an example of a "horrible" map is a little myopic though. 
You'll be wishing for this video to end.

Ain't that right. 
You Guys Realize 
he's not entirely serious there 
...he's obviously serious about CZG being a dick, right?


He plays it good. Good aim. 
...he's obviously serious about CZG being a dick, right?



Yeah, I mean there's some things you just don't joke about. 
those videos are funny. 
wtf? he complains about sparse ammo but skips over at least 3 ammo boxes. 
Dear Mr President

Wow Pink mis about to be censored :P 
and finishes with 96 shells 
Ah Crap 
I just spent several hours today encoding videos just to realise now that I captured in 640x512 instead of 640x480. DAMMIT! 
Radiant Used In Conan Development 
That's a wacky find alright. Very interesting indeed. 
Not that Conan, the other Conan

what's "that conan?" the only conan game i know of is the MMO they're talking about in that article. 
There was this other Conan game for consoles a few months back, pretty much like God of War. 
for some reason i missed that entirely :) 
Woot More Reviewage 
Ruined Nation (by Distrans)
Laboratory X (by Orl) 
15 Million Cooleness Points For Thom Yorke 
Nice review of distrans' map ! 
'Piracy Killed My Game,' Round 5: Valve's Gabe Advocates PC Gaming 
Wonder why? Answer: Steam. 
I think there's loads of PC's everywhere! Facebook etc means that loads of people want PC's, they've become mre accessible to the public lately because more and more "non-digitally-minded" socialites are buying into the idea of "modern communication", everyone being "groomed" into this idea along with the growth of the mobile cell-phone market. More and more people have cable... Digital cameras, easily sending media to freinds in a much more free-hand way... These are the reasons that PC's are being sold more and more! As for PC-Gaming, well people want it all! They buy consoles to go nicely with their flat-screen TV's, saving them the need to configure anything at their leisure! PC's are the tools used to make modern games, but people want to be able to play these games on their consoles.


There will always be a minority of people who don't buy consoles, but whom still have a platform to play games - their PC! So surely manufacturers will continue shipping titles to the PC, simple as to maximise their potential market..... ? 
There will always be a minority of people who don't buy consoles, but whom still have a platform to play games - their PC!

This is not a minority. This is the vast, vast majority.

This is why developers that target people who want to play games on computers that aren't made specifically for it are doing so well (basically popcap and WoW at this point). The PC gamer as we consider them is kind of a niche. 
Can relate to wuggas take on ant. Laugh. I played through chaos and rubicon yesterday (nice web page for the maps too) and they didn't drive me a little crazy like antedeluvian. Shit he can play though. 
"So surely manufacturers will continue shipping titles to the PC, simple as to maximise their potential market..... ?"

The answer is: maybe. Shipping on PC is a -LOT- more work than it is to ship on consoles. With consoles, once it works on your xbox at the office, it will work on everyone's xbox. With PCs, you have to enlist an army of compatibility testers and add tons of special case code to handle every possible permutation of hardware and driver issue. It adds a lot of overhead and fewer and fewer companies are willing to be bothered anymore.

The PCs greatest strength is also it's greatest weakness. 
The PCs greatest strength is also it's greatest weakness.

With great power comes great responsibility. 
Breaking Down The Incompatibilty Barriers... 
I would say that perhaps as we move into the future we will see technology reach a certain plateau....?

Already we would see that modern console games share the same technology as mid-high end graphics cards have to offer. The same technology which is used to power PC games and console games alike.

Admittedly there are compatibility problems at the moment with regards to PC gaming, but I would say that as hardware is pushed boldly and blindly into the future software is running to catch up, and it's a loosing battle. I would guess that ten or even five years down the line compatibility/hardware requirements become a much less significant issue with cross-platform games support as platforms having the power to run software becomes much less of a questionable issue...

Its true what some have said - buying a newer PC to play one or two key games (Crysis) is a strange thing to do - especially as the games arent that great other than appearance wise. And also let it be true that top selling games (WoW) do not necessarily have to be the ones with the best graphics, but the ones with the better gameplay. Surely a shift away from creating games which have "groundbreaking graphics" towards games which have "vastly appealing gameplay" in the future would result in perhaps a larger number of games, with more focus during development on the idea of "making a good game" rather than trying to "exploit new hardware to the max".

Imagine a game like World of Warcraft, which is supported by consoles and PC's which has ONE online network for all platforms - each platform available to utilize and access one online unified community. I would say this could be just around the corner.... 
It's a technology rockface. There's potentially some plateau at the top, but there's a million different ways to reach it. It may also be well beyond our lifetimes that any such plateau can even be imagined, let alone designed as a viable framework.

Possibly as OS's continue improve we'll see better cross-pollination, but I wouldn't bet on it. 
Shouldn't Nvidia and ATI have a strong interesting in making PC gaming interesting?
Their first step should be to make the drivers better (so programming gets easier), i guess.

CPU vendors share that interest, too. Where are the ueber-cool, free, resource-hog games that are sponsored by CPU vendors? If I were Intel, i'd sponsor all the free OpenSource engines out there, and maybe the mod scene, too. 
There's potentially some plateau at the top

yes it's called the NWO 
New World Order? 
Bah�'�s believe that it embodies God's divinely appointed plan for the unification of mankind in this age. 
I would say that perhaps as we move into the future we will see technology reach a certain plateau....?

shitting christ I hope not... 
I can't wait to have to build another new computer with a kilowatt power supply that puts out more heat than a camping stove so I can play games that are even more expensive and unoriginal.

Stay away, technology plateau! 
Looks Interesting: 
did you ever get my mail response? not that there was anything (terribly) important in it, i just want to know ;) 
No - Mail Response? 
Sorry - I haven't received anything... :O 
Can anyone recommend any good FTP programs for windows? 
Core Ftp Works 
of course, don't use ftp, it's unsecure use sftp. Same reason never use telnet but ssh. 
Hmm I Just Use Fireftp 
firefox add-on 
has great ftp support... 
Just click past the little popup about paying (you're not required if it's for personal use). 
This Made Me Lol...

This game has blatently ripped off ENTIRE LOCATIONS from Oblivion, UT2004, Thief 3 and perhaps other games also, and it is now on store shelves, I can smell a major lawsuit from the other side of the milky way...

the backgrounds in that adventure game are all screenshots.

This is interesting legal territory. They're not shipping assets from any of those games, they're using screenshots of them, which I think falls into the same legal territory as cover bands or sampling/remixing.

/me gets popcorn 
The Plot Thickens... 
Current games/movies ripped off for this adventure game

* Black & White 2
* Oblivion
* Morrowind
* Diablo (Skulls, Helm, the freakin' UI)
* Theif
* Silent Hill 3
* Painkiller
* Unreal Tournament 2003/2004
* Konami's Silent Hill series
* Troika's Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines (PC)
* The 1997 film Spawn
* Pirates of the Caribbean

legal teams moving in:

ROFL! what drama! 
it would be an AWESOME failure of the copyright system if they can claim copyright on the screenshots. That could easily be the death of all sites like gamespot and the like, couldn't it? 
And Tomorrow 
BREAKING NEWS: They were all faked screenshots. 
Limbo Of The Lost 
haha, we were lolling at how awful that game looked in the trailer...

this ripping-off thing is just the icing on the cake 
Jesus Fucking Christ 
Current games/movies ripped off for this adventure game...

With this many games ripped off, it almost enters into the realm of artistic statement or meta-game commentary or something, except there doesn't seem to be any such lofty goals in this case.

it would be an AWESOME failure of the copyright system if they can claim copyright on the screenshots. That could easily be the death of all sites like gamespot and the like, couldn't it?

There's something called fair use. Putting screenshots on a game review site qualifies. Using screenshots as backdrops in an adventure game doesn't. There's no contradiction or inconsistency, this is not a failure of copyright. 

Tri Synergy Discontinues Limbo Of The Lost On Stolen Asset Allegations Following accusations that PC title Limbo of the Lost used assets taken from The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and Thief: Deadly Shadows, among other games, publisher Tri Synergy has discontinued distribution of the game.

The company claims it had no knowledge that developer Majestic Studios reused the level designs and artwork without permission.

The company claims that it is "shocked" by recent screenshot comparisons from gaming communities GamePlasma and NeoGAF that allegedly show Limbo of the Lost using level designs and artwork originally from a multitude of other games.

The adventure game, which uses 2D screenshots of environments for its backdrops, seems to include pictures of games including The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, Thief: Deadly Shadows, Diablo II, Unreal Tournament 2004, Unreal Tournament 2003, Diablo II, Crysis, Silent Hill 4: The Room, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, World of Warcraft, Painkiller, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines, and other titles.

According to Tri Synergy, at no point during its dealings with Majestic Studios did the publisher have any knowledge of these similarities. Tri Synergy has states that it has contacted Majestic and that it is awaiting the studio's response. Tri Synergy plans to release another statement once they know more about the alleged asset theft.

UK-based developer and publisher G2 Games, Limbo of the Lost's publisher in Europe, has yet to comment on the accusations.

Somewhere in a Kentish pub, three old wankers are getting pissed up right now. 
I bet this is some giant hoax.
If it isn't, the whole "we had no idea" thing is bullshit, they publish games, if none of them was capable of recognising any of these screenshots, they shouldn't be in the business. 
I find it hard to believe that nobody at that publisher had played Oblivion or any of the other games that were ripped off.