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Discarded Ideas?
Have you ever had a really great, amazing, mind blowing idea for a map...?

...That you realized was too ambitious, complex, or actually stupid to attempt?

List it here.


I'll start: Once upon a time, I had a mind to make an entire episode in the style of ancient Japan: the player would start in a burning city overrun by monsters, then move beyond the city walls to mysterious swamps and hidden temples, then to lofty snowy mountain peaks and finally a majestic monastery/castle as an endpiece. Great idea, maybe, but then i realized I couldn't even complete ONE map, let alone five. So that kinda died. Maybe one day, who knows...
Well... 
I abandoned a 4-level unit for Quake 2 that had some good stuff in it, but I maintain that was mainly because I was trying to build it with qED2, and trying to finish one level in that was too ambitious. 
Yea... 
Every map I've ever planned. Only the bad ideas turn out, and they don't turn out well. :) 
DoW!! 
the map i've still got on my hd. well, it's a box map (which is the bad way to make it unless you wanna run a competition on space efficiency). but it has nice touches like fancy teleporters (for a box map??? yea i know...) and a well linking two floor levels etc.

i guess i could send the bsps to someone but i'm confident i will get the time to finish it and my ctf map this summer (even if i'm working)

anyone got non mapping plans. like learning to play the piano? there, thats mine then 
Yeah. 
n3sp04! <pitfall> 
Crap 
<pf> 
The Map That Dreamed It Was An Episode... 
with every SP map that i've completed more than 1 room of, i develop this grand vision of an entire episode built around the map. Chaos was supposed to be part of this big episode with a desert excavation. Rubicon's episode involved a submarine, an imperial city, and an emperor to assasinate. The map that kona finally released as Amari Aliquid was supposed to be a 3-level unit. (at the time i abandoned it, the brushwork for 1.5 levels was done.) Rubicon2 is of course, still planned as an episode. I also have a few other unfinished levels with 1 or 2 rooms that have 4 to 7 level episodes envisioned around them. It's pathological. Maybe i should stick to DM. 
Random Thoughts 
i think with SP maps, you have to be realistic about your limitations. Just build the map, make it as good as you can, and then release the damn thing.
Quality is more important than quantity. 
Slavery, Is Just An Obsurdity, How Can You Be Alive When You Are Dead 
i think you should all become enterpreneurs: get your cousin to do all the work. just make him the drawings, artwork and storyline. the more "slave" cousins you have the better...

no, i'm serious...

well, ok, it will never happen but y'know there's just not enough hours in the day for all we wanna do. so "contracting work" is the way forward.

shhh, don't mention any trade unions... 
Heh. OUM And Ontranto 
After struggling mightily to produce The Frater Fracas, back in 1998, I gave up on the concept of OUM for quite a while. Good thing I ran that poll, eh?

As for Ontranto... well, I have three and a half maps in various stages of completion in editor. That's quite an improvement, but now, at least I know what's involved this time, and actually have a halfpie clear plan for the whole thing. Back in 1998 all I had was wild fancy.

Ah well. Eleven months to go... 
Daftpunk: 
do you really think my cousins can do as good a job as i can? And if i did the work as poorly as random non-mappers, then the quantity would be no problem. 
Heh! 
just wanted a reply like that!

i know i know. i dont trust people to do my work either...be it with uni assignments or the machining in the workshops!!

the suggestion is to get someone close to you (the you is general) to help out. it's not easy but there are examples of projects and stuff done by friends who perhaps lived close together or where at same school. i wish i knew somebody close who was interested in mapping. they are al interested in the PS2 and GTA2...

i know the net is a good place to meet partners (in work, NOT in your sex life. at least not for me!) but chasing them up can be difficult. it's like me trying to get a job placement in germany and doing all from here in UK. 
Pretty Much... 
everything I've ever done. Even the one SP map I released was supposed to be the first of a three map episode. Then there's the 3-4 map episode that I have half given up on. The DM map sitting in beta on my hard drive. The D-Day map that was finished by someone else. So yeah, pretty much everything I've ever done. 
By request of Metlslime to bump a good thread. 
Oh Okay 
So have you finished any of those maps yet Metl? Was Ant one of those?

Its tough to really do what underworld fan mentioned (6 years) earlier. Speedmaps are good for that, as I don't feel like I have to release a 'perfect' speedmap. A real, polished release is a different matter though - especially in this day and age when it will be compared with like, februus or ant... 
Yeah... 
Ant was one of those "maps with an imaginary episode around it" -- in this case a 4-map metal episode -- one brown metal, one blue metal, one grey metal (ant), and one rust-colored metal with lava.

rubicon2 still in progress, of course... 
 
Oh wow how many discarded maps do I have ? Less than the number of discarded ideas I have for sure. Just too many ideas (one I had last night while playing Dragon Age and I really really want to work on but probably won't) and too little time to realize them all and play Dragon Age.

Oh how I disappoint myself. :( 
Ratamahatta's Revenge 
Uncompilable Lazarus Q2 project about a betrayed alien drug lord getting revenge on his brother and former crime family. Had two full maps and around five half-complete ones.

They were warp sized. All lost now. 
Remember The Map Names . . . 
Psychotic Tuesday
For Whom the Bell Tolls
Last Nail in the Coffin
Meltdown
Autumn

And a couple I forget. 
:-( 
Sounds interesting. 
I Never.... 
... stopped a project, just refining the "end-product"... Five Rivers Land is the good example: it was supposed to be a giant map reproducing Doom3's Hell level.. and it turned out into 3 episodes...
... maybe I'm not enough old in mapping as I never experimented such behavior ;) 
You Are Obviously 
a liar. 
Drew 
Unfortunately, I am not a liar... believe me... 
 
i probably have a couple dozen discarded things. from things that are just not possible to build in quake to styles that don't have enough in them to make a whole map out of.

and then, every once in a while, i work on them. that's essentially what those two maps during qexpo were.

there's one huge map that i stopped working on because it wasn't loadable in FQ. this was before metl increased all the limits and such, so it probably loads fine now. i might go back to it and finish it.

right now, i'm trying to stop my current project from becoming a discared one. :P 
Get Working Necros <3 :D 
ya i've had a few. one i really wanted to do was a giger/alien'esque level. not like a stupid scifi ship or something, but completely twisted metal structures, all curvey and awesome like. gave up cos i couldn't find the right textures for it (was trying to use elite forces textures and some other stuff), and too many curves everywhere would have become a compiling nightmare. no ones really done any alien shit with quake.

oh, and then there's the episode i started where all the models were gonna be changed into hot bitches. i was kinda young then. got a few models done though, and then lost the map files.

got 4 levels into a giant dam-based Gunman episode too. as well as some sof and rtcw stuff lying around. i wanted brumal quest (the snow level i did) to be more of an episode.

can't remember any other big ideas i had - probably heaps though. 
For What Its Worth... 
I can't stand discarding a map. All I learned while mapping is that I never saw mislignments, off grids, cramped ergonomics.
So after all this time I only learned to hold back all enthousiasme and silently hope my combination of parts all work out right.

This dimmed my attitude a whole lot into the direction backwards. Now I can compile with more accurate base, but it also took out a rig in free expression I had first.

Leaves map that worked out well, only at cost of the everly nightmare I never can leave it without the terrible hom in the backyard which is all I can remember.

Specially now, when I'm on a map I started a year ago from scratch. After screwing two years with a crippled version. I don't know what's sane after all this time. I know I like the map, but the sacrifice to create it reaches a kind of slavery. To get the thing done. 
 
I've half-built the third map of my ideal Quake episode half a dozen times by now probably. The problem is, every time I have a good long bash at it I learn something new about Quake mapping which I then want to go back and add! 
Hm 
I'm actually pretty good at finishing stuff - it just goes through multiple abandonments and takes many years. SoE - started 1997, abandoned, returned to and released in 2002. My upcoming stuff is almost all old stuff that was long abandoned and has been resurrected. I hate the idea of leaving large amounts of finished brushwork sitting to rot.

If I start an idea I almost always finish it. I've even considered remaking more of my An Old, Old Evil maps (soe2m4/5, and masque, were from that, my first project, started in 1997). 
 
i'd love to see an 'inverted' Masque map from you, to be honest :) 
Heh 
well, after I get my current batch of maps out I'm considering starting a new map from scratch for the first time in years. I've got a few ideas, one of which is an "inverted" Masque map combined with a remake of some id stuff. Maybe I'll try two from-scratch maps - it takes me forever to finish maps since I always have so many on the go at once (that is, I'm always doing episodes, not single maps). I like this idea but I also want a chance to use the custom textures. 
Remake? 
 
Yeah 
well maybe more like "re-use." 
Re: Re-use 
I've had plenty of ideas for community projects and events (turtle maps, etc) that I thought would be a lot of fun but a pain to organize.

One idea was World War Q, or something equally ridiculous sounding, which was basically teams of mappers organized by nationality to somehow compete against each other, or at least to form a map together or perhaps a small episode.

That would be way too hard to organize, probably not enough people would be interested, and team UK would undoubtedly win. A close second would have been Russia if Pulsar and Speedy still mapped (not sure if they do, is speedy still "retired" from Quake?)

But I thought something like that would be a lot of fun. 
Heh 
here's a vaguely (not really) related idea:
what about the idea of tribute maps, that is, maps where each major scene is a remake of a previous map's scene or idea (id or otherwise). I had the underwater temple scene as a tribute to Rescoe's Shadow, it'd be interesting to see maybe a chain map where a whole bunch of mappers remake one of their favourite Q1 scenes, and then someone else makes maps out of them. 
Good Thread Bump Scampie 
 
 
or where there's a chain of tribute maps, each tribute is of the tribute that came before. sort of like broken telephone except each mapper reinterprets the next map. i wonder how many elements of the original would survive... :P 
Wow 
awesome idea necros, just imagine if the theme was "Netherworld traps" starting with something as "innocent" as dm2 or e3m5 (just transporting you!) ... 
Or 
A remake project that aimed to recreate the original game, filling in blanks left in, refining the gameplay and making it more awesome than the return of Jesus Christ on a manticore in outer space playing electric guitar.

Forgot where I was going there.

Time for one last glass before I retire. 
Heh 
I think I know what you're saying "filling in the blanks." Storywise, Nehahra did that BEAUTIFULLY, and it was worth (lol in my humble view) Mindcrime's girlfriend leaving him over it. That was amazing.

but what if, the last couple posts seem to imply, there was an intermediary map BETWEEN idmapx and idmapx. THAT is interesting.

I always imagined that e1m4, for example, was very much literally below e1m5, as it would be if you combined the two maps. 
 
I always imagined that e1m4, for example, was very much literally below e1m5, as it would be if you combined the two maps.

heh, ended up that way when i did it. :P 
Hm 
Like the lost entrance to the dismal oubliette.

Wasn't someone mentioning an idea a while back to compile all the maps from an episode inside each other?

So no level intermissions, just a sprawling network of unlocking sub sections.

Hm. If I ever finish Ep3 I might steal that idea . . . 
That Was Me. 
and i did it for e1, but it wasn't all that interesting to play the maps over again so i never bothered with doing the other episodes.

the only important thing you need to do when combining maps is to go into a text editor and edit the .map files.

you have to search for strings:
"target" "
and replace with
"target" "e1m1_

and the same with targetname so you don't get cross connected target/targetname pairs. after that, you can just paste stuff in. 
Fuck 
Lost a post there. A very eloquent one ;P

Baby carrying waits for no man.

I meant steal the concept for a series of remake maps - Gb's done alot to reorganise his stuff creatively and I'm lacking. Combining some might be good. They're bigger than the originals, so can't combine more than, say, 2-3. 
But 
I like the idea of everything opening up sectionally, while hopefully remaining intelligible to the average player.

A level design challenge, probably, but more as a route problem instead of a spatial, art or gameplay one. 
Once 
once when I still had the SOE sources (since lost), I thought of remaking SoE e1 in a single map, since the maps were all designed to fit together (soeE2, despite the fact that some of the maps were designed to fit together and indeed were once single maps (ie soe2m4/5), is too big/messy for that).

I think the idea that appeals to me from SoE now is the "multiple routes to infiltrate a structure" from soe1m4. NSOE was more just blatantly nonlinear doom-style blastfest, strategy was important but it was hardly a sneak-fest (lol), that wasn't even an option.

I think e3 is the most suited id episode for combination, but I'd love to see a single map of e1m3, e1m4, and e1m5. 
That's The Problem Though 
Ideally (I think) the player should be led through the early routes in a lineal fashion with one area acting as a hub with the locked areas being clearly signposted. As new stuff is found (gold / silver / shambler's head key) the player remembers where they saw the relevant locked door (struture / portal etc) to use the item on.

Would be tricky to get it right without holding the players hand too much, or introducing a naff compass helper type HUD or item. 
I'd Disagree 
About e3 being good for mixing as well - it can be very samey looking in the middle. I think this'd work best with completely different looking areas.

Kind of like Zer's mix of blood and base in that early cinematic. Always though it was a shame that wasn't expanded into something playable.

Like A Roman Wildnerness ;) 
 
Oh yeah another map idea I had which I really wanted to work on but couldn't wrestle down a good layout was a map where the walls keep lowering as you progress, changing the layout of previously traversed areas. The whole thing was meant to feel like being inside some Elder God's puzzle-box contraption.

So you walk to one end of an area, press a button, the walls come down revealing some newer areas that transform the area and allow a new progression back to another button, which also transforms ... etc etc

Totally doable, but just really hard to do right. 
Wow 
that's an awesome idea

re: ijed
I see what you're saying about the themes. I still think e3 would work best though, since it's the episode in which it matters least "where the sky is" if you see what I'm saying. I don't think a quake level would have enough room to join things horizontally, and besides things would be more interesting/interwoven if joined vertically. Therefore, an episode like e3 would be great because the potential for joining is a lot wider. 
 
The lowering ceiling thing makes me think of that falling ceiling puzzle in HL1 - the bit where the ceiling caves in piece by piece and the solution is to jump up onto one of the pieces that's already fallen.

Logistical nightmare to make what you're describing. But it'd be . . . awesome.

As to ep3, yeah, it'd lock together better, but more as a big map (vertically is a given I think). I was thinking more in terms of making the phrase 'slipgate traveller' more important. So a very minor change needing alot of work I suppose.

We've got the ability to transfer key objects across maps, so the only real bonus of what I have in mind would be the lack of a loading screen. The downside being a warp style trawl through the level. Hopefully mitigated by the contrasting visual styles.

Hm.

What you say about the sky gets me thinking of a massive metal structure floating in the sky, a series of interlinked puzzle pieces navigable to the player - to steal Zwif's thought process.

So the sky could just be outside, not necessarily above. But that'd change my slipgates only idea. 
I Think 
What I'm driving at is how to justify the distinction between big map and multiple maps inside the same. 
Oh Man 
well while we're pie in the sky I think the end product of this conversation is the idea of E3 as a series of interlinked yet moving components, one giant episode-sized map which is also a (very dangerous) puzzle, floating in the sky or void. Some elder god's abandoned rubix cube. 
Or 
Lament Configuration.

Why not pie in the sky ;)

Got to sift through shit to find the diamonds. 
 
sadly, it would be a nightmare to do something like that in quake... for one, the lighting would be pretty bad since large moving brush models wouldn't be casting any shadows. T_T 
Wait, I Made This Thread!? Really? 
Six years ago, no less. That's... hilarious. Especially since I haven't pushed a single damn brush in six months. But hell, I'm home for the holidays with nothing else to do, so they're haunting me again.

Y'all should take all these great ideas that might actually come to fruition to a thread where they won't get discarded. Although I guess the whole point of this thread was that someone might be inspired by another's unfinished ideas.

Here's an idea I've had to set aside: for a long time I wanted to build a hanging city nestled into a gigantic tree, playing off of the concept of the Yggdrasil (the mythical Norse tree that connects different realms: the analogs of hell, earth, and heaven). A more mundane example would be one of the first dungeons of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, which is inside a large tree.

Something like this illustrates my imagination pretty well:
http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/arcana/255_forest1_okcp1gylfr.jpg

As you can no doubt imagine, neither my technical skill nor the ability of the Quake engine are up to the task. Now, I haven't given it up entirely, but suffice to say that I would need a better computer and more modern engine to bring it to fruition. 
Postscript 
That episode ide I casually discarded in the opening post as impossible?

...

Yeah, still working on that. 
Heh 
both posts are great! - awesome idea in the first one and awesome fact in the second one! 
Shub Niggurath's (arm'ed) Pit 
I got this idea for the Remix Pack last year - thought a remix of end.bsp would be a quick thing, but my motivation dropped even before I got started. No idea if I'll ever actually create this map. Maybe this can be of some use to the RMQ team.

The basic idea of Shub resting in some dark caverns remains, though additionally there're multiple interconnected side caves at different levels. The main texture is that dark grey rock interspersed with bits of the brighter rock texture the original map uses exclusively. Shub in the middle of the non-linear, atrium-like layout. She doesn't sit in a lava pool, though. The bottom of her pit is a Shub-textured organic structure and there're tentacle things digging (or growing) through the rock, as if she was a tree root.
In each of the caves there're bits of some ancient arcane machinery that doesn't look like any familiar technology but still seems oddly functional. The player has to activate all parts in a certain order or quick succession to be able to defeat Shub. Needless to say monsters teleport in whenever he does - standard Quake bestiary, Shamblers, Vores, Fiends, Spawns. Possibly additional one-time buttons are required to open up some of the caves or improve the connectivity required to quickly get from one machine part to the other. When all parts are activated, a teleporter appears and/or a glowing Shubball lowers into her for a short time and the player can telefrag her.
Shub herself doesn't just sit there idly. Apart from the monsters roaming the caverns and teleporting in, there're three Shubballs flying around her and through the caverns. They stop at key positions and shoot spikes and lightning, perhaps even Ogre grenades, in all directions (or sometimes directly at the player?). At first they were supposed to be shootable, at least in certain spots, so the player could take them out, but I think they're better off acting as environmental hazards.
When her death sequence runs and she gibs, some of the tentacles/roots on the floor and walls explode in a cinematic way and show the flesh beneath, some bits fall down. The bottom slowly fills with blood until it reaches the player's feet. Finally, the walls of the caverns crack open and one can see the teleporter texture behind them, as if Shub's dimension is being torn apart after her demise.

With additional QC one could spice things up even more. The Shubbal defense system could be done more smoothly, for example. And the machine could be made in a way that it 'reprograms' one of the Shubballs to act as the telefrag beacon (clever timing required as in the original map - activate all machine parts in the right moment as a Shubball passes through some kind of device, its skin changes). 
Woah 
that's a good idea 
Hm 
re: the shub pit - you mean kind of like this?

http://www.3delement.com/login/public/shots/haunted4.jpg

This is from a map that later became the basis for Arcanum1 (I'm sure you recognize haunted1.jpg). That shub pit thing made it into a later arcanum map, with significant modifications. The idea of merging animated flesh monsters like shub (or the Quoth one) with fleshy architecture is awesome. If you ever get a chance go for it.
(rest of shots)

http://www.3delement.com/login/public/shots/haunted3.jpg
http://www.3delement.com/login/public/shots/haunted2.jpg
http://www.3delement.com/login/public/shots/haunted1.jpg

actually these shots demonstrate that I'm pretty good at recycling stuff it just takes me forever. 
That's Interesting 
We've discussed what Shub will become and there will be a pretty significant change coming up.

I like the machinery and cave system ideas, although Shub herself will become something alot bigger and unkillable - instead the player's goal is to disconnect Shub's link from our dimension.

Shub's children are going to become a new boss class monster and they'll be about the same size as the current Shub, but ambulatory.

Shub:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h87/osiris32/Shub-Niggurath.jpg

Dark Young of Shub Niggurath:
http://members.shaw.ca/csstrowbridge/Tulzscha/DarkYoung.jpg

Having the teletrain become some sort of servitor or guardian entities is interesting. The telefrag is pretty much out, so it'd be nice to keep them in but with a modified role.

Also thinking to have Shub directly attack the player with some tenticles. There will be others anchored into the brushwork, twitching and so on, so having a few that directly attack the player will be good.

But. All that might change. Suffice to say all of the bosses are going to be high resolution gameplay. New Chthon is in the works now - but since he's close to being finished I won't be talking about any real details. 
 
Tronyn: Yes, similar to that (but not deep of course). One thing I've been fantasizing about for years is the combination of themes from two of my speedmaps: a black&white castle with (colored) Zerst´┐Żrer flesh and blood. And some weird-ass elements, e.g. brick fountains, player transformation into one of those Shrak maggots, HOM chambers... A dark Alice setting.

ijed: Ah, nice. By the way, you know you have to create bosses for the other three episodes as well, do you? ;) 
Holy Crap 
the combination theme you just outlined makes it sound even more awesome/fucked up. Willem's white room black&white textures with the blood still red really made things seem weird.

May I suggest the castle have marble checkerboard floors, and incorporate doom-like (or even doom-transplanted) gargoyles and blood fountains.

I agree: bosses for all episodes! 
Way Ahead Of You 
 
Yeah 
the wizards manse will now have a wizard in it (and not a big scrag) and ep3 will have th dark young.

but yeah - ive said before there are holes in the original game - only 1 real boss plus a static model teleport puzzle . ..

ow. sorry for the typing, i think i've broken my left thumb in a piggy back race 
Yeah... 
My only disappointment with quake is the lack of episode 2,3,4 bosses. Chthon set up an expectation of actual episode bosses that was never met. 
 
yeah, i remember being really underwhelmed by the endings of the other episodes.

also, it'd be cool to have a map inside a big scrag. 
 
That's weird, I never really thought about it before. Makes sense though. Seems weird to not have bosses... 
Wup! Right! 
13 years down the road I had almost forgotten, but hell, yes!!! No bosses in the episodes beyond shareware was a real downer(one of the few...)and even big jelly mama Shub... I was expecting the fight of my life and ended up exploding the fat lady from the guts.. Yeech!!! Still gives me the goosebumps! 
 
LET'S TALK ABOUT POTENTIAL BOSSES IN THE MONSTER THREAD!! GOGOGO 
 
You can tell that it was a matter of scheduling ... the game needed to ship and there was no more time to do new monsters. That Quake shipped at all is something of a minor miracle! 
The Fight For Justice 
http://www.quakeexpo.com/images/quakepreview.gif

Remember this? Yeah... The whole of "Quake" that we have was a matter of picking up the pieces left over after a far more ambitious idea was discarded. In retrospect, far too ambitious for the technology of the time (smooth-scrolling 256 color VGA, ZOMG!) Kinda funny to think about how such a last minute mishmash game has held up for so long. 
Race Against The Update 
I was discarded because I was outdated!!!

http://members.home.nl/gimli/OldOgre.jpg 
 
I LOVE those old screen shots! Do you have a complete collection of them? 
 
Negke 
Something like your machinery idea might still make it into another boss fight.

I still have a proper void map to deliver. 
 
wow, look at the old prey shots... really amazing how they were able to update that and manage a release after all that time. 
 
Love that shot of the ogre in the hallway ... I also remember drooling over the shot with the 3 windows and the light pouring in from the outside. That shot was the inspiration for my "99 Ways To Die" Doom2 WAD. I was determined to recreate that lighting in Doom2 ... heh. 
 
http://nostalgia.poweredbylasers.com/picview.php?image=images/originals/uo/u24_3.jpg

i remembering seeing this shot a lot for some reason. 
I Just Dreamed One Up 
where a shambler commanded a large nail to follow me as we fought, and when i got to close to him he used it to cut me open from my neck to my stomach and punched me down an abyss with (what i thought to be) slime at the bottom. so as blood and entrails came out in the plunge i woke up scared, for the first time ever.

everything was like black with white highlights, but the colors where guessable. it felt like a filthy place as if dirt blood and ash coated the surfaces. i cant remember the weapon, i think it was the axe because we (for some reason there was an attractive girl with me)killed a bunch of other monsters, maybe wizards and ogres i couldn't tell because it was so dark.

but it had this feel to it, Lovecraftian, it reminds me of the horror at red hook for some odd reason 
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