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ARCANE WIZARD
Just wondering if anyone is interested in a wizard/arcane themed q1sp project. The idea would be a common pak file, including a bunch of arcane monsters/props, and whoever wants to donates a map in an arcane theme (id wizard, contract revoked, ikblue, new texture sets, whatever). Then they get strung together, and that's the pack.

Criteria for arcane: in my opinion, there should be lots of books, heh. And a focus on signs and symbols and magic and such. contract revoked is a good example.

Anyone interested?
I Would 
but my maps are really garbage. You should steal Nastrond and put it in there though, that map would be perfect for it. Sounds like it could be a really cool pack. 
Definitely 
I'll give it a shot as long as you give me a do/don't list. I don't really have the resources to compile a too-detailed or big map, so if it's a bit short (I'll try not to make it absurdly short)... I'm interested. 
Okay 
I'm in. I second phait on the list and need an idea for a time factor. 
Well.. 
I've got a good PC (2.4 gig processor, 1 gig ram, etc), so I can compile just about anything you throw at me.

Time factor... well, looking at how quickly work is progressing on the other project I'm working on... hehe... I'd say shoot for the fall for a beta, and release before next year. I say this because I think it is realistic given the rate people in general are mapping these days, including myself.

Oh yeah, btw: some other acceptable themes for this pack would be runic, medieval, or flesh. However these should still be "arcane" if they're included (ie, not just plain runic etc).

Do's and don'ts I'll have to think about. 
Time Factor Sounds Good, And 
this has no bearing on my level (high) of interest in the project but I was curious as to if you plan to use the standard engine and entity set, or something like SOE's (which, btw, the fileplanet link from your site isn't working, at least the last time I checked) entity set. 
Umm.... 
Well, I would probably use the Coven Of Ebony set, which includes:

-cut-scenes (not mobile camera however)
-three types of necromancer enemy (acolyte, sorceror, warlock, same model but different health and attacks)
-troglodyte mage enemy (like zer but different)
-axeman enemy (like a knight but faster)
-modified knights and hellknights

But, if I could get someone who was willing to plunge their hands into some code, I think a few other enemies would be great:

-rogue wraths and overlords (certainly arcane!)
-hipnotic gremlins
-rapture barons (like a hellknight, but way better)

and on my completely-unrealistic-wish-list, would be a conversion of Hexen II's shadow wizard. Of course, since many of these enemies like troglodytes, barons and overlords are quite difficult, it would make for a nice challenging pack :) 
Hehe 
I can dream, can't I? 
 
Time factor... well, looking at how quickly work is progressing on the other project I'm working on... hehe... I'd say shoot for the fall for a beta, and release before next year. I say this because I think it is realistic given the rate people in general are mapping these days, including myself.

Or april fools day 2006? :-p


Btw Zwiffle, your turtlemap was quite okay save the lighting? You should give it a shot... think bigger & lighter and you'd be fine :-) 
I Cant Believe 
... that tronyn is considering a pack after you so recently reminded him of your SoE map :) 
I'm Already In A Mapping Project But... 
I'd be happy to help beta-test. 
I Have About 
one more week of work left on my turtle map left, and after that, I am free to start mapping. 
I'm 
interested in this project too, but I also have an unfinished map that wants to be released as soon as possible. And those damn exams suddendly appears from nowhere..

So if the deadline is far I'll join this project 
Arcane Pack 
I believe i am in for a map, i do not plan to have it be very long but we can never tell... ikblue, http://triumphant.us/~inertia/temp/ikblue_1.jpg 
Hmmm...can You Do Some Real Mages? 
who get knowledge of several powerful spells(lightning,summoning,teleporting,fireball,all can be found inother packs,except summoning i think :D)

shall be fun i think 
Remember Who Coded CoE In The First Place 
Barons I'll have to ask Kona for, else grovel through the Nehahra source and figure it out.

Incidentally, I could throw in the Ontranto Archers and Crossbowmen as well. These guys automatically replace grunts and enforcers in medieval (worldspawn.worldtype = 0) maps and drop nails. There's rather a lot of them about in Ontranto :)

Damnit, I'm starting to feel another map coming on, like Mexx9's Tower of Twilight but more varied. 
Ko-winky-dinky 
I've been fiddling around with the Mexx9 as well. I would like the episode I'm working on to be story driven without getting too far away from Quake.
For the Wizard project I can lend some original monster models I have made. One is an update of the slow moving gas spewing dragon from Thief. I still have the original .3ds files that can be compiled into a .mdl. Another is a D&D style mindflayer. 
So 
Your archers/crossbowmen are sort of like what the goblins in SoE were supposed to be (medieval enemy with gameplay function similar to grunts/enforcers), only better? heh

what models do they use, modified grunt/enforcer ones or different models?

The map I'm making for this I started a long time ago. It is a cross between Ikblue and Contract Revoked. I would post a screenshot (I have a compiled and lit section), but I have another map vising right now and starting Quake up while that much memory is being used, probably isn't a good idea.

So it looks like I've got at least 3 or 4 people interested, which is great! I will come back later and post some more information (story, shots, some stuff like that) when my map is done vising (it has been stuck at 99% for at least 10 hours). 
Tronyn 
The Archers and Crossbowmen use models from the old Fantasy Quake mod. Since they have exactly the same frames as grunts and enforcers, it's a straight replacement.

As well, I'll throw in some more flexible sound entities - I need 'em for what I intend to do. Probably Rogue's func_lightning_train ones too; I need those, along with Zer's "lightning lights". 
Alright... 
Well, I'm putting together a surrogate website for this, which'll include some reccomendations, specs, wads, shots, etc etc. Expect it by the weekend. 
It's Difficult For Me... 
to imagine how contract revoked textures and ikblue textures can look good together. I am, therefore, very interested in seeing a screenshot. 
Actually I Have A Map... 
or a fragment of one, that's kell-textured, but not the knave ones from contract revoked/nastrond. More of a arabian/desert feel to it. (kinda inspired by that Lovecraft story where the archeologist is camping out in the desert and stumbles upon this ancient underground city)

but there are books in the map! and runic symbols and stuff. so if it's presentable by the time this pack starts coming together I'll contribute it, if tronyn wants it. (notice I'm being very vague on commitments, becuase school could very easily devour all my free time at a moment's notice) 
OK! 
web site up.. http://www.planetquake.com/tronyn/arcane

Grahf: yeah my map uses as many non-Contract Revoked Kell textures as Contract Revoked ones, so that's fine.

So, everyone who's in for a map post here and we can discuss this as it moves along etc etc. If I'm not mistaken, I've got approximately five possibles, give or take?

Btw, what do you guys think of the screenshots of my map? Lighting and architecture are not final in those. 
 
2 shots loaded... they are looking quite nice! I would convert those images to JPG - they're takin long to load, or not loading at all.

I am definitely in on a map. I think we should be gettin a story together before really starting the mapwork though, what do you think? 
Alright 
I guess I should convert them to jpg or put in thumbnails or something... I'll do that soon..

A story would be good. Kell and I sort of invented a good Lovecraftian story, but it requires particular environments in order to make sense. I will post it in a post after this.

If we had a story, I hope it could be something better than "some big evil thing just woke up, so go into its lairs and blow up its minions, then it" lol!

Ideas? 
Well 
I've never toyed with Fantasy writing so... and there's usually universal things found in such stories that I really have no idea about. It seems like you're going the Hexen/2 route here? 
Alright, The First Story 
was something like this (I'm adding a bit and likely forgetting a bit more)

In the Great War (during Lovecraft's era), two stray soldiers (British, whatever) stationed in the middle East accidentally discover a horrible buried/ruined city in the desert built by a pre-human civilization. They are found, stumbling and rambling madly in an immense sandstorm, and are taken as prisoners by the Turkish army. Somehow, both survive both the horrors of the city and its effect on sanity as well as years of brutal POW time. Returned after the war, it takes them years to recover and attempt to regain their normal lives. By some unspoken agreement, they never speak of the horrible city again.

Many years later, Our Hero recieves an invitation from his friend to join him at his mansion on urgent business (the two had drifted apart over the years), the first contact between either in long years. It seems his friend was twisted by the experience and became obsessed and addicted to the study of the occult; his invitation boasts of a great discovery.

The player arrives at the mansion; it is empty.
This would be the first map; you can walk around and etc until you find a secret bookshelf and make your way into caverns beneath the mansion...

The gist of the story that happens after this is: the player goes through caves and finds strange blue arcane structures built into the underground areas, and eventually finds that there is a strange sort of sky with odd arabic characters floating in it - certainly not the sky he saw outside the mansion. The structures begin to be more broken and chaotic. Odd organic fleshy structures appear. Then after several levels, he meets his friend.

The explanation is this: His friend found the Necromomicon, which is not only a book but a place: upon touching the book, the player did not move a bookshelf and go under the house, but rather went into the book. The arabic writing in the sky and elsewhere is the handwriting of Abdul Alhazred, the Necronomicon's mad author, which serves as a sort of DNA-style blueprint for the nightmare world they are in. The openings to black void and broken areas represent areas where the text is lacking. The flesh sections and horrible monsters represent the influence of "certain entities." The player fights his friend as the boss, and then wakes up outside the empty mansion... 
Story Idea 
ever heard of the "eternal champion" concept by micheal moorcock?

So basically an eternal warrior [you] who goes through time fighting the evil monsters... 
So 
The levels are chapters of the Necronomicon? And the starting mansion is like a difficulty selection level before going under into the caves or something? I'm kinda confused... 
This Is Worrying 
My current conception of my own idea is a huge tower (something along the lines of Mexx9's Tower of Twilight) where you enter through the dungeons below and end up sticking a bloody great obelisk into Shub-Niggurath, which is sitting atop the tower. Needless to say, we're talking about "game over" territory here. (Not to mention Freudian :)

The thing is, I'm unsure how such a tower would fit into the "lost in the Necronomicon" theme...

...And I'm not sure about how much I'll be able to work on it. I'm futzing with some architectural studies now, but I still need to develop decent large-scale designs before Uni begins. And get the QC together as well. 
Hey, 
That's just the story idea Kell and I had. Doesn't mean we're using it.
The pack will probably just be a series of loosely connected, diversely themed Arcane maps. So, we'll need a different story that works with that, instead of the one I posted which deals with specific environments, cut-scenes etc. I posted that mostly for interest's sake, not because I intended that that's what the story would be. 
Given The Story Idea 
I would recusing picture examples from the level Avanipaala Praasaada which uses a whitened version of the IkBlue textures.

Fat Controller, you are scaring with those Mexx9 references. I've been looking at its code as well; specifically the cut scene code and the possibilaties it raises for scripting. Quake can use all the entity scripting code that can be mustered no matter how primitive it may be in relation to what has been done in Half-Life and UnRealScript. 
Eh? 
recusing -- uhm like the judge in the Peterson case? Mo. I meant 'recommend using' all apologies. 
Yeah But 
We aren't using that story.
And, even if we were, I think those textures, though I like them a lot (see my Ethereal Hell review of the map if you don't believe me), aren't gritty, brooding or evil enough for a storyline like that. The desert city would probably be better using a texture set converted from another game, like unreal or maybe heretic2, or even quake3, if it was ever made.

So Fatty, with your idea I'm assuming yours would be the boss map? hehe. 
Contract Revoked Wad 
Erm... 
Well, that link might not work for a day or two... edgefiles is weird like that, it doesn't always upload the file to ALL the servers right away. 
hmmm this looks like a fun project,
I may work on a map for this,
if I can fit some time into my UNI
schedule between now and summer.
I suggest OGRO textures would be arcane
enough for part of this project :)
Somewhere deep within the hidden recesses of
my map scrapyard lies the scattered remains of
an ogro temple area, atrocious brushwork,
but I would be rebuilding it from scratch.
Also, I have some QC for making monsters drop
items (keys, weapons, whatever; I'm sure this
has been done before) if you want it let me know. 
Quick Note 
The code for the pack is primarily CoE with knobs on. Once I find out about the barons I'll do a proper write up and bung it somewhere. 
My Two Cents On The Project 
As I failed to mention before, I am interested in this project, but here is my idea on what you guys were thinking.

Since all the maps will be quite different, it'll be hard to link it all together with a specific story... so, to build onto what Tronyn's story there, why not base it on dimensional passage ways within that "book," or whatever it is. This way, it would make sense for all these different styles and texturesets to be linked. 
Could 
just base it off of a bunch of different books from Lovecraft's world, not just the Necronomicon, such as the Pnakotic Manuscripts. Each different but still fits the theme ?_? 
That'd Make An Interesting Start Map... 
Say, some sort of spooky manse/Miskatonic Library with a few books on lecterns (strange ones, with pages made of starfluid.) Approach 'em and you get sucked in.

In theory, if we could get five people wreaking, er, working on maps, we could have something like a pack of mini-episodes... Hmm.

Now, what titles were there in the mythos...
Necronomicon
Pnakotic Manuscripts
De Vermiis Mysteriis
R'lyeh Text
Ceaelano Fragments
Revelations of Glaaki
The Book of Eibon
 
So Fatty 
its like Myst! I have read the first 3 books, i dunno if there are more (and played the games) 
Isn't There Also One 
that's German for "unspeakable cults" by Von Junzt as well?

I like the idea you guys have come up with: each different map (or series of maps, whatever) represents a different book of the unspeakable. Actually, this allows for a great diversity of themes - R'lyeh text I think would probably do well for a slimy map, for example.

Then, we could end it with the player going insane after having completed "learning" from all the books - maybe even a showdown with tons of monsters teleporting into the library start map! 
If 
like I think Fatty's suggeting, each book would lead to a series of maps rather than a single map, one way to do this would be to hold a speedmapping session with arcane themes. Then each mini-episode could be speedmap, large map, boss map, or something like that? Just an over-ambitious suggestion, as always, of course ;) 
Tronyn 
over-ambition can *sometimes* be good.

remember soul of evil, it was worth the wait. :) 
Tronyn 
I think one map per theme is a better and more realistic idea.

Bu tthen again, I'm biased against speedmaps as proper releases. 
I Must Admit 
But then again, I'm biased against speedmaps as proper releases

i tend to agree with this. 
Aye 
Let's have a few maps only, of the usual unfeasibly high quality :P

Anyway, I've started "researching" Mexx9B, and I'm surprised how simple the basic structure is. Gotta remember that once I get a handle on the looks. 
Unaussprechlichen Kulten 
...is what you're thinking of, Tronyn 
Unpronouncable Cults 
I think is the literal translation, Lovecraft kinda screwed it up. 
Oh, One More Thing 
I was intending to possibly sputter out with a "graveyard" themed map in time for Halloween, so I'll think about that too. Right now I'm trying to settle on textures for that and the tower, so I'll get back to that once the damn sun goes down. 
QC 
Tronyn, I could help you with the QC for this project if needed. I didn't read all of this thread but since I imagine the QC is a small job, I could probley handle it. 
I'm Already On It 
I've just got the Barons to convert from Nehahra's Pascal-ish to straight QuakeC.

LONG POST WARNING

Also, I've just written a possible backstory, as well as settling on a nice set of textures. Here's some extracts:

(Note found on front door of Miskatonic University's Rare Books Building)

My name is Richard Knokkel, but my friends call me "Dick Knuckle." I gladly bear the joke, which is somewhat rude, as well as the nickname "Skippy", earned after a particularly humiliating period on the football field.

I have since abstained from "stiffening up" prior to any sporting performance.

* * *

I remember my first interview with Professor Birch, the head of the Rare Books Collection at the Miskatonic Library. This was in part due to having some difficulty finding the old house where the collection was housed, a significant distance from the main library proper. Security appeared to be peculiarly tight; the door was locked, and I had to identify myself to a suspicious fellow by passing my identity card through the letter-slot in the front door and peering into a security camera next to it. Once inside, the atmosphere remained one of distrust, until the Professor arrived at the front desk.

"Before you ask," he snapped (and I was to learn that the Professor always snapped,) "We moved the collection here, and keep under so much lock and key, because of theft... Why, we have here some volumes which are the very last of their kind! Can you imagine what a, er, collector, would stoop to in order to gain them for himself?"

* * *

The interview was successful, and I will leave it at that. My primary job was the moving and sorting of priceless volumes, and also, often wearing facemask and gloves, copying down some passage or other from the elderly, decaying volumes. It was not tiring work, and I enjoyed handling the books, and wondering on who had consulted them before in the past, and why.

One day, I found a note requesting an excerpt from a book I had never heard of. Confused, I asked the secretary at the front desk, a hard-faced man called Pym.

"What the blazes do you want that for?" he screeched at me, leaping out of his chair, face working in a passion. "How in God's name did you find out?"

"Find out what?" I spluttered, "Do we have it or not?"

"Have what?" Professor Birch asked from the top of the stairs, surrounded by his fellow researchers. Close-mouthed and suspicious, all of them.

"He's asking after- after-" Mr Pym's mouth worked silently, then croaked with fright, "the Arab's book."

* * *

"I told you we keep rare, valuable works here," [Birch] said quietly. "Some of them are... they... deal with occult themes. They are considered, among certain people, to be wisdom of great power. And they would do anything to get their hands on them... or the words contained therein."

And the Professor siezed a dart from a collection lying on his desk and threw it at a rather tattered picture of a young man that was pinned to a dartboard. "Bloody Lovecraft and his stupid tales!" he snarled, "Why couldn't the young fool have kept his mouth shut!"

* * *

Perhaps because of that damning note, I now paid more attention to the heavy vault-like door behind the front desk. I didn't have to be Sherlock Holmes to connect the ominous rattle-boom of that door to the appearance of certain titles on any requests.

About two months later, I received a phone call from Professor Birch, who in tense tones, told me that my services would not be required for the next two weeks. "We're, um, having to perform an, ah, rush job, so to speak, er, for a very important client," he stuttered, "Try not to take this wrong, but... consider this paid study leave. I'm trying not to be rude, but you'd just be in the way."

* * *

I remember that about the midpoint of my "study leave" there was a terrific freak electrical storm. I couldn't help noticing that a lot of lightning was striking about the University itself, particularly the library.

When I returned to the Rare Books Collection, I saw nothing unusual at first. My identity card let me in the front door, which is where I saw the symbol first.

It was a sort of five-pointed star, painted in yellow, with some sort of symbol in the middle: <||>, like an eye. I soon found that every window and external door in the building had these symbols painted nearby.

I was also alone.
 
Hey, Nice Story 
Thanks Vermuelen but I think Fat Controller's got it for this round.

That story sounds great. I guess we'll need a new texture with that symbol on it, for the library start map, heh.

I volunteer to do the start map; that is, unless someone else wants it. I envision it sort of like Scragbait's halloween map, a small-ish building/complex that you approach from the outside, probably using a mix of contract revoked and normal Quake textures.

I think the episode's finale should be a showdown with many monsters teleporting into the start map, and a large battle outdoors taking place during a lightning storm. 
I Kind Of Get The Feeling 
Fat Controller is realy into this one. Are you going to shoot for a particular number of maps, the theme and objective to each map and then do the assignations? 
Start Map = End Map 
i like the idea of building a start map and then using it as the final map as well. The "circular" logic seems quite satisfying. :)

As far as i am aware, its never been done before either. 
Yeah 
I updated the site - Kells textures now available for download (the fileplanet mirror for his other textures might not be up yet). Also converted the shots to jpg and got rid of the old coe/contract shots.
Same url,
http://www.planetquake.com/tronyn/arcane

We really need to think of a name for this project. 
I Think 
We will just get as many arcane maps in whatever variety of themes people want, and then that will be the amount of books in the library. Trying to get each person to do a particular book and have them all link together towards some goal is probably going to be too difficult; this is more a project where you make whatever map you want, then it goes in the project, rather than "you - make a canyon, you - make a castle, ending in a tower with the e1 rune, etc." 
I'm Already On The Start Map 
And having a good time! :)

I've never done something contemporary before, heh heh. Lots of Kingpin wallpaper, worn carpets and things. Screenies coming as soon as I have something worth looking at (e.g. the main foyer.)

(And it's such a nice change from medieval...) 
Start Map Screenie 
It's not finished, obviously, but I think there's enough brushwork to get the feel of it.

http://www.planetquake.com/fatty/smile/fcarcane0.jpg

On the left, you can see my attempt at an Elder Sign on the floor. It may look spak, but that's what I get from bending Bezier curves before shrinking. 
Nice FC 
Spunkable visuals -- Quake by the way of Max Payne. 
I Think It Did Me A Power Of Good 
I just had a brainwave for the ground level layout of the tower! 
Title 
We really need to think of a name for this project.

What about simply Bookshelf project as a name? 
Hey, I've Got An Idea 
If we're using "magician" enemies, why not have them have multiple attacks? Nothing spectacular, but for example we could crush the acolyte/sorcerer/warlock into *one* class of monster that can use all three attacks. Or the Vore could have another attack or two (the fast firepod from Rapture might work). What do you guys think of this?

This way, the gameplay is more challenging than simple horde combat (though you could use hordes of powerful, multi-attack monsters for some real fun, heh).

Bookshelf isn't a bad title; something along those lines would probably work. Or there's always the option of naming it something Lovecraftian, I mean just some bizarre word or two. 
Hmm 
Technically speaking, the various wizards are one monster, so merging them could be easily done.

But that reminds me: the Acolyte's attack inflicted "disease" on you, so your health rotted down at intervals unless you found a full health or megahealth. Keep it in, or take it out?

For a pack title though, we could always nick Ramsey Campbell's Cold Print, or maybe just Old Print. 
Title 
i like "bookshelf".

because its different to olde/medieval typical quake 1 map names. 
I Think 
I'd say take the "disease" out. In CoE it was a good way to add some relevance to the weakest of the three magician monsters; but in a pack as challenging as I intend this to be, it would probably get annoying that some little schmuck's knocking your health down bit by bit as you face off with barons and overlords ;) 
Err... 
Libris Arcanum

Libris et Mortis
 
I've Decided 
to do what you're doing, Fat Controller; that is, research the map I'm going to make and plan it out ahead of time. It's going to be a lot like Rogue's "Towers of Wrath" thematically. I also want to do some texture editing for it, but I may need some help (every time I've tried this it has never quite worked out).

btw, your start map screenie loooks great. 
Help 
If anyone wants code help, count me in. FC - I have the source code to the Rapture Barons (since I made them and everything) so if you want it, it's yours. 
Heh 
how about a map too, while you're at it? :) 
Maybe 
I have a lot of work on right now I can't commit to anything so big until the summer... 
Update 
It looks like I'll need to get FrikQCC before I can progress with the code; unfortunately, bloody 3Ddownloads always seems to have a wait of an hour or two. Damn and blast.

My tower map is starting to get its act together, except for requiring some readjustment of scale, I think.

There's another impediment too, but I'll let you guess :) 
Fatty 
Sorry man, I didn't think it would be so hard to get hold of... I've mirrored it on PQ for now:

http://www.planetquake.com/commandhq/Frikqcc27GUI.exe 
Thanks LTH 
God only knows why the looong queue times. Must be that new "Far Cry" demo or something clogging up the pipes. 
God Damn I Love This Icon. 
You'll soon be converted to the goodness that is FrikQCC. Look! It even has a GUI! 
So 
Whatever happened with this? 
 
I think that people are working on it and we have to wait til like November or something for it to come out. 
Well 
The QC coding is proving to be a bit of a nightmare, with weird errors all over the shop. I 'm still attempting to get the new weapons to compile... and then I have to replace the axe. It isn't helping that I'm using a new compiler either.

Then I have to add in new monsters.

And work on three maps.

And three essays.

But before that... I have to get Ontranto all fixed up, out the door and out of my hair. 
Goodluck FC 
<[:-) 
Aww 
*big hug for Fatty* ( well, as far round as I can reach ) 
FC 
your maps are worth waiting for. ;-) 
Yeah 
I'm still in, my map should be pretty good. MY monitor blew up so I haven't been able to work on ANYTHING of any kind lately, so that sucks. Is anyone else still mapping for this?

BTW, I may make a second map for the project out of scraps, so if anyone has a map section that would suit this project, send it over. (netgames@netdp.com)
Fatty, your Far Aira sections (if you're not using them) might be suitable.
Cheers. 
Holy..... 
I missed out on this entire thread while I was gone.
Those screenshots rock. 
IDBASE RULES! 
=D 
 
/me drags biff_debris to the altar and sacrifices him to the gods of visual aesthetics 
Ikbase Rules! 
Idbase, ehhh? Some mappers can make it work, the ramp room in the SlipGoat Complex (unintended spelling error too cute to change) makes it work, but overall, they look like shat. 
Hey Kell 
I remember back when we thought of a project like this originally, you said you didn't have time to map, but you'd help with some texture editing. Are you still up for that? I want some custom textures for my map.

And yes, my monitor is back, finally! Good thing it was on warranty (mere months away from expiring too!). 
Unholy Resurrection 
A few questions:
Is anyone besides myself and Fat Controller still working on maps for this?

Anyone have any maps partway done they'd like to finish and contribute, or contribute for an FMB-style scrap-map?

Is anyone willing to do some heavy texture editing for the main map I'll be doing?

(For FC), what enemies and weapons are going to be in?

Also for FC, what did we dedide (anything?) about the start map also housing the finale? 
Tronyn 
Well, a long time ago I posted here that I wanted to map for this project after the release of my map I was working at. I thought I would finish my map fast, but I was wrong (the release was only few day ago).

I still want to join your project, but I have just started a new map (I want to make it completely knave covered). If you want to wait for at least few (3-4) months, then I'm in. If you don't, then I'll release it as a single map.

Actually I think it may take me more than 4 months, because I want it to be at least medium-to-large sized. 
I Have An Unfinished Map 
intended for a speedmap done a few weeks back. It has a promising layout and probably fits the Arcane theme (mostly Ogro textures). I could work it up some more this weekend and hand over what I have Sundayish if you like. 
Sure 
Pulsar: Don't worry, I will take at least 3-4 months too so it'd be great if you were in.

Headthump: Sure send it over and I'll have a look. Right now the scrap-map is mostly IKBLue but I could use it as a secret area, make another scrap map, or retexture it a bit to fit the theme. 
Tronyn 
Will the knave only map fit the theme? (without ikblue) 
Will Do 
IkBlue will be an easy conversion. 
Oh Yeah 
Yeah Knave is perfect
Each map could be its own style, anything the mapper thinks fits the theme of arcane. I was just informing Headthump that the map I'm making out of various scraps is mostly Ikblue, though it is in fact Ikblue mixed with knave :)

I've also made a bunch of prefabs of furniture, bookshelves, etc in case anyone's interested...

Headthump: Sounds good.. 
Progress Report 
Coded so far:

Enhanced Brush Entities
There are several triggers which can be toggled on and off, and start off; I am working on toggleable func_trains (wait -1 can be restarted) as well.

Extra Keys
So far I have written code for five more keys.

To Do
1. Weapons
* Replace axe with chainsaw
* Add Rogue multirockets and lava nails
* Add chaingun and ammo_slugs for same (impulse 8 twice to select?)

2. Trigger_read
I'll be creating the trigger_read as a point entity the size of a player. It won't fire at once, but will make a selectable noise, requiring an impulse to fire, like Unreal's translator. Books and combat don't mix.

3. Monsters
* Rogue Dragon
* Baron
* Axeman
* Ontranto archers and crossbowmen

I had all this written down on a piece of paper, or I can check my mail on the computer downstairs.

Uploads of any test alphas are dependent on getting this ADSL wireless business running, and we've had to call for professional help. In the meantime, I'm still faffing with the code and two maps. 
Fatty 
will there be such features as chest remover and/or one entity teleporter? 
Huh? 
I have no idea what you mean by "chest remover".

As for "one entity teleporter", I am intending to implement Ritual's func_spawn entity (if you're referring to teleporting in monsters) as it has more flexibility. You can spawn any point entity you like with it. 
Chest Remover 
I mean the code, that removes chests of dead monsters to free edicts. 
Oh, Corpse Removal 
Given Tronyn's penchant for horde combat, that's not a silly idea. 
Alright 
My map count can be upped to 3... hehe//
What about "Mage" monsters like the CoE mage (3 classes in 1?), Troglodytes and Overlords/Wraths?
I'll release some more screenshots and update the page pretty soon. 
I'd Like To 
get my little Doom project out before August 3, but after that I'll certainly have time for map construction. Also if you need any static models or brush prefabs for Arcane let me know; I'm handy with both. 
So... 
Tronyn, is it OK if we just send you a .map with lighting done but item and monster placement absent...oh, and about 200 free entities. 
Mongsters 
Ah yes. I'll add those to the list.

Currently I'm still fiddling with the library/start map - I may add an exterior shot or something.

At the moment what I really need to do is test ths master field business (and extra keys) and be sure that it all works.

Then the weapons, then the monsters, then the trigger_reads and other environmental doohickeys.

What I'm really doing is adding cute little rading lamps to the library and trying out styles for the graveyard map. 
Yup 
Sure distrans send along, that sounds great.
And FC and Headthump, map scraps whenever you're ready too... :)

It's going to be a learning experience doing a FMB/SM_x map, fitting these sections together and whatnot. So far, I've noticed that the way I've put sections together (I've got 3 of my own I've made suitable and started) is "cheesy," so I'll need to work on that. 
Damn And Blast 
We've got ADSL working! :)

Seriously though, I have to completely redo the goddamn master system. All doors and shit are broken. This is what comes of trying to be too damn clever. NNGH!

If I can get this working, I'll start on any weapons and monsters I can find... Probably the Rogue and CoE ones, I think I have the code for those around.

(The fix should be easy. Just add a slave field. I thought I could get away without it...) 
Idea 
I was thinking lately that with this much new stuff and 4+ (I think) new maps and a start map, this is actually close to as big as OUM. Maybe to make it more professional and coherent we should just make it into a linear episode, rather than a coagula-contest style pack branching from a start map... what do you think?

If we were going to do that, some kind of logical progression between maps would be good (like OUM).

Damn did OUM ever rock :) 
Hehe 
sure did 
Quake Doesn't Need Logic. 
 
Shotgun And Armor In A Library 
...doesn't strike me as logical. :)

However, I've had a brainwave. If we have four confirmed maps, then we can still use runes and have some nonlinear fun.

The runes, as intended, open the safe behind the reception desk, where there's a lectern that the Necronomicon is supposed to rest. The front doors open, and you take off outside towards Old Dethshill Cemetery... <Buford T. Justice>in hot pur-suit!</Buford T. Justice>

In other news, the master field now works properly for doors, as do the keys. I just have to check all the mastery code and then I'll start on weaponry. 
Hehe Fatty... 
...all this talk of master and slave is starting to sound very Neitzchean. 
When I Don't Get My Way, 
I take it out on the slaves 
"A Library Makes Me Sick" 
Actually, the idea is to be able to "turn on" or "turn off" an entity, like a door. The canonical example: A powered door that needs to be "turned on" to function normally.

My preferred example is a hub or central crossing where you do a few things, then the doors close and stop working normally, while several zillion monsters take turns buggering your skull.

Now I have to test the chainsaw. And the toggle-able push and hurt triggers, and 
Fatty, The Rumours Are True Then? 
You are showing off your QC AI programming skills with a path_bukake_groupattack function? 
There Are Three 'K's In 'Bukkake', Silly 
 
That Word Is Racist 
[nt] 
That Is Why I Avoided The Third 'k' 
because I am just that sensitive you know 
Question 
Not being an expert on these things...

Why is it racist? 
Btw, The Word Is Nietzschean 
what I meant by logical progression was just, thematic progression, like OUM had. However I think using the runes is good.

The 4-ish maps would be:

Fatty's map
Pulsar's map
My first map - Ikblue/Knave
My second map - Rogue Wizard/Runic

I've also got a map in production based on scraps from A Roman Wilderness of Pain, not sure if it would fit the theme though. Might be best to leave it for its own release later on, since it's also hardly started in comparison to the others.

As for prefabs/map objects, I've got a few but maybe some actual models (Headthump) would be good. Specifically I've made a candle-holder (like in Doom) prefab, but lots of these would make wpolys fly through the roof, so maybe a static model would be better (could incorporate the rogue candles possibly). Just an idea.

I've got some benches, chairs, bookshelves and lights for map prefabs, I could zip them and upload them somewhere.

and BTW, where are those map scraps? I'm making really good progress on the scrap-map now, so send them in while there's still room to incoroprate them. 
Morfans 
Count the Ks in "bukkake." It goes like this: k, k, k. Now what's racist and has three Ks? 
Is It 
Ken Kaniff from Konnecticut? 
I Have A Doom Style Torch Stand 
in production for Town of the Dead. I would be glad to hand over when it is completed.

BTW, in that Roman wilderness of pain,
are all the children insane?

meh suspects lycanthropy 
 
BTW, in that Roman wilderness of pain,
are all the children insane?


Father...? 
 
I've also got a map in production based on scraps from A Roman Wilderness of Pain

great idea, looking forward to this. 
Scraps 
I can't find the bits from that ikblue map I started anywhere. Sorry Tronyn, I think they're gone for good.

In further news, I still can't get the chainsaw to do its idle animation, and am starting to encode the chaingun. 
Tronyn... 
...ya, I tend to come up with some wrong combination of letters whenever I try to spell him ;)

The Rogue candles would be awesome!

You won't get a scrap from me, rather a medium sized map that needs item and monster placement. ETA 6-8 weeks. Incorporate it, cannibalize it, use it as a secret level, throw it away... whatever. 
Update 
The chainsaw animates properly, and the chaingun works... sort of. Ammo box models don't appear for some reason, and I haven't managed to get a double-impulse 8 selection going. I'll definitely have to fix those before implementing lava nails and multirockets. 
Ok, 
distrans, I'll probably just finish your map and use it.

As for my maps, the ikblue/knave underground thing is making some progress, architecture is about 1/3 or 1/2 done, while about 1/2 of that is lit. 
Tronyn 
Do some hell-ish motives fit the theme of the project?

btw what's your e-mail? 
Oh Yeah 
netgames@netdp.com

and yes, hellish is good. I'm thinking of putting a flesh section or two in my second map myself.
in addition to ripping off the "demonic library with no floor" section from contract revoked :) 
That's Great 
I meant exactly the usage of flesh textures from knave wad 
Tronyn Did You Get A Chance To Look At Those Models 
if you like them i can get started on some to replace the axemen etc. 
Tronyn, 
is this the same thing i was mapping the unforgiven map for at one point? 
And... 
If this is not Unforgiven, then what happened to that? DaZ asks me once every other day to release that start map. It's getting rather annoying. 
Nope 
Unforgiven and this are two seperate projects. Necros, where's your unforgiven map at? I just assumed that you and Tyrann were slowly chugging along. Obviously RPG's start map is done, my map is beta but I need to compile it with a decent VIS level, which will take a week or so (another map, almost equally large, has priority because I want to release it first). Anyway, so that's what's up with that.

dylan: Nope haven't looked at the models yet but I did recieve your email, and I will tonight or tomorrow and let you know what I think.

and RPG, I think Daz is just trying to get you back over your harassing him about Night Journey. Err... wait, I'm involved in that too... damn 
TNJ! 
Hm... 
to be honest, i lost interest in that map... :( i still have the source for it though, do you want it? there isn't that much to work with -- 1500 brushes only... but i can send it to you if you want. 
Necros 
As always, I'd appreciate any map source contribution for testing purposes. 
Yeah Sure Necros 
why not, I'll have a look at it. If it's feasible to do something with it for the project, I will. If not it'll just be my map and Tyrann's, which would still be a fair-sized pack because both are huge maps.

update of the arcane website coming soon.... 
If You Need An SP Tester... 
...I have experience. Only if you have been happy with my past contributions to your projects. 
Hey, Yeah 
Your testing has been great Scragbait, whenever I've got something playable (for this or any other project), which is basically just a matter of compiling time, I'll send it directly to you. Cheers :) 
Tronyn, 
what email should i send it to?
sorry for bailing out, btw... those textures just weren't doing it for me... not enough blood, i guess. ^_- 
Those Textures Didn't Do Much For Me, Either. 
But I was still able to create something.

http://rpg.spawnpoint.org/images/blah/newunfer.jpg

</p1mp> 
Oh 
That wasn't meant to be a slag. :( 
Tronyn, 
How much more time do you plan to put in to the project (Arcane). I'm still trying to get a partial conversion project of my own out the door, but if I have it completed in the next few weeks, I'd like to finish up the Ikblue section I've worked on previously.

A little discription, the wall layout is based upon some intricate Sufi abstract art my brother in law stumbled upon in Bahrain. Connect the walls with domes and butresses, and fill in the floors with pools, pillars and archways and it should be a unique looking palace when it is done. 
BTW, 
if you are finishing up in the next few weeks, I'll gladly put my Partical Con asside and work more extensively on the IkBlue design. 
Heh 
headthump: oh no don't worry, this has a lot more than a few weeks left. If you finish your section, I will either graft it onto my map or to distrans' map, as both use IKblue so it should fit in nicely. sounds good.

necros: looks like he's got you there :)
You can send it to netgames@netdp.com
Maybe I could convert it into a boss arena for the pack or something. 
Tronyn 
the sooner you get back to me on which models you want to use the better, also i can make a shitload of map models as soon as i am done with the enemies so a list of what you would like would be great. as well as what any other mappers would like. 
Hmm 
I'm having troubles opening the models with my qME. I guess I'll try downloading a different version or something... 
if you double click on .mdl files, and have qme associated with those files, i find that the program fails to load the models. the only way to do it is to open qme and use they open window to load models... 
Would You Like Them In Mdo Format? 
i can send them in .mdo format, qmelites native format, or as necros stated try opening them from qme. 
Hmm 
yeah I have tried what Necros suggested and still have the same problem, so maybe send them in .mdo format and hopefully that will work. Thanks. 
Tronyn, 
i resent them in .mdo format as well as a copy of my qme.be aware tho in .mdo format they do not have quake 1 colormaps so they will look slightly different 
Dylan, 
Alright it worked, I had a look at the models. A lot of them look really great, nice work! Some of them look too futuristic for this project, but others would fit the theme nicely (the mad doctor one particularly, the soldier, maybe the new ogre, etc). It would be great to have some visual variety for monsters.

For map models, I've got 3 varieties of tortured zombie that you could finish (one hung by neck, one hung by wrists, one spitroasted, all animated :), then we could figure out what other kinds of evil stuff would work well for these maps.

I'm going to update the web page for this site right away, I've got the prefabs ready, the update should also contain some new screenshots from myself and Pulsar, and a preliminary entity list. 
Cool Deal 
i figured some were to futuristic, my first concepts were quake2 as a sequel to quake 1. go ahead and send me the map models you want me to finish, and i have a bunch of sketches i might try to scan of what i want to go with. 
 
tronyn:

whats the deal with the downloads of:

[1] the night journey
[2] an old old evil

are these the finished versions? or are they still being worked on? 
I Had An Idea 
if the game is based around the necronomicahn then why not have part of the game play based around collecting pages. for example pages could be used for keys or spell weaponry. it was mention that we might replace the lightning gun, so why not have a page from the book with a spell to shoot lightning, or we could make it discharge a swarm of locusts with some .mdl changes and new sounds the current damage and what have you can be the same, and the rocket launcher could be a fire ball spell(because outside of texas i do not know of a library with a rocket launcher inside :)).
just an idea 
Uwf 
Daz and I are theoretically still finishing the Night Journey. I did some work on the new version of The Arabian Nights a couple months back (shots are in the screenshots thread somewhere). However, right now I'm much more concentrated on finishing other projects rather than NJ, but it's safe to say that some day it will be finished. The current download is just sources and junk etc.

As for an old, old evil, I actually recieved an email from Murderous Martin (the guy I worked with it on back in 1997!) wanting to finish the project a while ago. I haven't heard back from him, but considering that out of my 6 maps for the project, 1 is lost, 2 were remade for Soul Of Evil, and another 1 is coming out (masque of the red death) soon, finishing it might be moot. 
Just Thought Of A Couple Things 
"(because outside of texas i do not know of a library with a rocket launcher inside :))."

LOL!!!

If we're having the axeman, anyone know where I could find these skins:
1) cthulu cultist
2) executioner
these would probably fit the theme.

As for spells, I thought we'd just keep the Quake weapons with some modifications and a couple extra ones (Chainsaw, Chaingun) for some serious flesh-ripping. However, a long time I asked LTH to do a remake of Heretic's "The Dragon Claw" magical weapon to replace the lightning gun in some of my projects. If he finishes it we could use that for a magical weapon.

As for collecting stuff, if there's 4 maps (I think there are), we could just have the player grab one rune in each map to unlock the Necronomicon, which is either a level in itself (?) or leads to a finale fight.

Oh yeah and I figured in case anyone is curious, the status of Unforgiven (not this project, Unforgiven) is about 60% done. My level for it may end up requiring a custom engine due to scale. 
The Axeman 
why not use the model i sent you of the ogre for the axeman, he looks pretty executioner like and i have a cool axe i have been needing to use. 
The Piece Of Paper Tied To The Recently Arrived Stone Reads... 
Um, I've been a little absorbed in my new job this past fortnight, but:

The chainsaw works fine; the chaingun needs some adjustments, as well as getting an ammo bsp model working. (So far the bounding box is there, but the model doesn't show.)

Lava nails and multirockets are almost implemented, but need testing.

As for monsters, so far I've got the gremlin, axeman and mages lined up, and that's it. I haven't tried them, as I'm still going over the redone code for anything I've missed.

(For those of you who don't know, these new mages can use any weapon their underlings can. You can set the rank of a monster_mage with a count between 0 and the default of 2, or use monster_acolyte, monster_sorceror and monster_warlock entities.)

Once the monsters are done, I'll either get on to coding environmental goodies, including the infamous trigger_read, or more likely get distracted by Morrowwind again.

As for the "get runes for Necronomicon" idea, I'm thinking that getting the Necronomicon is going to involve chasing cultists into the nearby Old Dethshill Cemetery. If I can come up with a playable cemetery design. 
Well 
Here's an idea I'm going to pitch: let me know if you guys like it or not.

Replace the medieval elements of Quake with more Frankenstein-type stuff for this project.

That'd essentially mean, instead of medieval Knights, Hellknights and Axeman, we could use some of Dylan's replacement models instead and also his grunt, which would fit in nicely. The executioner skin for an axeman may work, while we could have 2 classes of ogres (keeping the default one as well, because of course it is very Frankenstein-ish already).

This'd mean that you could safely get away with having some machinery in your maps, ala Rogue's "Tower of Wrath." Not that you'd have to, of course. It'd just lead to some thematic variety, as opposed to all the medieval wizard stuff that's out there.

FC, could you implement the "normal Trog" we were once discussing for SoE (ie fairly tough, but not as tough as the SoE end boss)? Oh yeah, what about Barons and the Rogue Overlord/Wrath? I understand if these are too tough to implement, but if time's an issue don't worry, this is definately a "when-it's-done" project. I still have a whole second map to do that I've barely started, and my first one (which is gonna be huge, btw) is only about 60% done.

To be an evil bastard, ALL of my mage monsters are going to be the highest rank possible :)

Here's what I'm going to do: update the web page right away. It should clear a lot of this stuff up for everyone. Hey, maybe we could even attract some more people to make us another map or two.

If we get more than 4 maps, how will the rune idea work? Right now I count distran's map that I'll finish, Fat Controller's map, Pulsar's map, and my two. Maybe we could quickly hack together a new rune model, and call it the rune of something-else-magic? hehe 
Tronyn 
I'd keep the custom monster/skin stuff down as they *generally* dont seem to work too well. 
Well 
Wait to see the screenshots (up soon, I'm working on a site update right now), I wouldn't consider incoroporating new/replacement models if they weren't good.

Your suggestion does have merit though. Actually, maybe gremlins are an unnessecary complication? 
Custom Monsters... 
nitin: i think you should give every mod the benefit of the doubt, dude... don't be so jaded about it!

tronyn: just as long as there isn't that stupid worm-like marine monster. ;) 
Necros 
tronyn's last post just sounded like too much change. 
Tronyn 
i sent a new axeman to you. 
Nitin 
and your post sounded a bit over-generalized and negative.

Custom monsters add to the experience IF they are well done. Given Tronyn and FC's experience, i say go for it Tronyn. 
FYI 
nitin rocks. 
New Models 
where are the screenshots? 
With The Update... 
which is coming soon, I'm having a problem with my PQ account for some reason... 
Tronyn 
Just thought, how've you been getting by on PQ without ads? ;)

Anywho, maybe I'll toss in a few skin designs for the mod and if music is to be included, maybe that too. 
Where Is Bifffbase 
Working URL? 
 
 
Uh Oh... 
Another lost post? 
Tronyn 
when will the website be updated 
 
 
Nonexistent Post Error 
metl, your nemesis returns 
That's Strange 
web site will be updated "soon" (I'm too busy mapping ATM) 
I Also Got 
invalid "New post" indication in this thread. 
Hmm 
ok I'm still not sure what's happening with the custom monsters/new models/skins etc. Fatty and I will decide that soon privately I suppose.

I'm wondering if anyone is interested in doing a simple html design, based only on colours and text, that I could use both for this (Arcane) and Unforgiven as a site. I'd just change the colour of the design for one project. The site's sections would be exactly the same for both projects (something like news, development, story, shots, func_thread). 
I'm All For Sites 
but I think Von would best fit your request. 
Tronyn 
i have been working on a cultist model if you want to check it out 
Hm... 
hexen2 has a cool medieval archer dude... 
Sendage And Recievage 
alright dylan, send it over. I didn't recieve your axeman by the way, could you resend it?

Pulsar, Fatty and Distrans (the mappers), I've emailed you the prefabs I made for the project (500k zip file). No entities are included. 
Tronyn 
I recieved those prefabs. But don't you think that those thin brushes may cause problems for engine? Even turnung them to func_illusionary is problematic for me because I create lots of buttons/doors so I'm affraid to rach bmodel limit to fast.

And what about some new visual effects? I mean some new lightnings or something like that. And also earthquake effect would be nice IMHO. 
Egh 
to rach bmodel limit to fast.

That should be: to reach the bmodel limit too fast 
Lightning/earthquake 
those could be cool yeah, I'll have to ask FC about those. Now, for thin brushes, which prefabs in particular are you talking about? The spiral staircase is a fairly nasty one, but you can just clip it and turn the smaller rail brushes all into one func_illusionary. Of course you'd sacrifice some potential cool shadows. For some of the prefabs featuring intricate arches or lighting beams etc, I didn't really worry about engine concerns when I made them. If you think they'll cause problems then you may have to modify them or just not use them, but I don't think they'll cause any troubles as-is. You would really be surpised with how much you can get away with these day s in terms of compiling and loading in-game, thanks to help from folks like aguirre :) 
Zaps 'n Wobbles 
Some remarks on intended environmental effects.

There's the whole trigger_read business, of course. Hopefully this time I'll get the stupid thing coded so that it's much easier to implement.

ambient_* entities can have their sounds overridden by a noise key: just enter the path- and filename under the "sounds" directory and you should be OK. (e.g. for the standard slipgate drone, that would be "ambience/drone6.wav".)

I also intend recoding trigger objects to play custom sounds in much the same way. Incidental sounds, anyone? (And why didn't I think of doing that during Ontranto?)

Trees were suggested, and I'm putting them in anyway.

Lightning: My "arcane" map (The Tower of Yoth) intends making use of Rogue's lightning trains, but I'll have to have a good look through both the Scourge and Rogue codebases and see if I can blend them together.

Earthquakes: I can't remember which I decided to use in OUM, but I think it might have been the Zerst�rer version. I'll have to find out.

By the way, what's with these "cultist" models I keep hearing about? If they're any good, they could be of use - with certain sounds from Blood.

Anyway: The chaingun ammo boxes still aren't showing, and I've added the baron, gremlins, axeman, modified magi, dragon, wraths and eels as monsters to the compile list. 
Title 
I think my map will be called
"In Darkness They Conspire"
There will be 2 parts (rather than 2 seperate maps). The first is a large palace/library complex, all indoors, ending in a gargantuan library/cathedral area. The second will be more focused on odd architecture and traps, lots of func_trains and void for floor (think the demonic library section of KSP1 expanded into a full map, only bluer).

Oh man, those QC functions sound awesome. I'll be collecting some evil ambient noises and putting in trigger_reads will be great for the story.

The only I can describe monster list you just posted, is that it seems like AN ORGY. 
Fat Controller 
if you want to check out the cultist as is, i can send you a copy as well as a copy of the other stuff i am working on 
Dylan 
finally got a chance to check out your cultist and axeman models. Nice work, they both really kick ass. I reaaally like both of them, they're very "Quakey" and just kick ass in general. The cultist just makes me want to make a map of an abandoned church in the woods being used for satanic rituals... but I won't too many maps already :) 
Cool Deal,tronyn 
i have a new zombie and wizard i am working on, and seeing the new entity list i am spawning ideas for others aswell. the zombie will be far more rotting and cool, trust me.

also what do you think the cultist should fill in for? i was thinking enforcer because the lazer can convert to buckshot, and the grunt is pretty cool as-is.

also i am tinkering with map models got a good skull done(needs to be skin mapped and textured) and some other tortured bodies etc. 
Hey 
I agree that the cultist could easily fill in for the enforcer, which is an enemy we wouldn't be using in this project normally as it doesn't fit the theme. I agree about the grunt.

I like the original scrag for the wizard theme, but we could certainly have both an old and a new.

Oh, I'll send you the tortured body models that I have (email coming right away). 
Tronyn 
i sent the new scragg to you, check it out and let me know what you think 
Dylan 
Looks cool, you could even add some more spikes or something that might make it even better.

I'm starting to think that rather than replacing the medieval enemies with frankenstein type stuff, we could simply replace all Quake enemies that don't fit the theme with various types of cultist, using sounds from Blood like FC suggested. Thus, the grunt might need some slight skin modification, but he's basically a crazed shotgun toting devil-worshipper already. The enforcer becomes the robed, shotgun (or supershotgun?)-armed cultist, while the axeman becomes a cultist executioner. We could maaaaybe try to also change some of the medieval monsters like the hellknight and baron, into types of cult-head honchos that pack a serious punch and can competently use black magic, simply by changing their skins and sounds.

Of course, these cultists aren't in the same league as those demon-mages who aren't even human, the warlocks, wraths, trog, overlord etc, and who may not have even been human to begin with. 
Yeah Could Work 
i am trying to push out more satan/occult/doom heretic type stuff as it is, this is just a tedious process, of the original monsters i sent you( which were made before i knew of the project) only very few would fit into a themed group that this project needs. i am now trying to make stuff that feels like you are indeed going into the book of the dead, possesed people,demons,nasty bitey things with teeth.


as for the baron, id like a shot at another model to fit his code rather than a reskin, i have a personal disliking for the model because it is an obvious rip off of brian"evil bastard" collins base frame.it is either ddz or rhattamahata (they are both off the same base frame, and most of the original animations were kept. because the model doesnt do the original justice, it makes me feel cheated for using it.

all i would like to add for this project is an oppurtunity, their are hundreds of map packs out there that utilize existing enemies, some with new skins(some not as good), and i would like to work on things that are very well done, and very proffesional.

i have heard of a lot of people uneasy about new models, so i am going to try to put a website up with some pictures 
Ddz 
it was, exactly the same but like you said, it doesnt look as good as the original. Still, it's better lookin gthan most custom models. 
Sounds Good 
i have heard of a lot of people uneasy about new models, so i am going to try to put a website up with some pictures

I have been fallowing the thread and you have perked my curiosity. I am looking forward to seeing them. 
Headthump And Distrans 
When can I expect your map sections?

Btw, I've got the updated site ready with some screenshots, but PQ won't let me into my account. 
I Have Two Good 
free days coming up Thursday and Friday (working Saturday). So, the end of the week (Friday night) works for me. 
I Have It Up In The Editor 
In the editor now, polishing brushes. If I'm satisfied with what I have, I'll turn it over sooner; regardless of my personal feelings, it'll certainly be worth sending by Friday evening. 
Tronyn - PQ 
Make sure you check the gamespy intranet for updated instructions on uploading to your website if you haven't done it in a while. (it did change fairly recently...) 
Tronyn 
what tyrann said. it all changed recently... 
Thanks For The Notice 
the crap-tacular web page is now up!!

http://www.planetquake.com/tronyn/arcane

get ready to cringe, lol

and headthump, that sounds fine. you can have it until saturday or sunday if you want, as with work and such all weekend i won't really get around to looking at it until then anyway. 
Ya... 
...nice staircase, that'll come in very handy.

I'll seal up this section over the weekend and send it through so you can check progress. However, reading back through this thread there seems to be some idea that I'm working with IKBlue. Not the case... so you'll have to make a call as to whether the level is going to fit or not. If you decide not it's no biggie, as I can release it as a Halloween map. 
More Shots = More Better 
Please post many more pics on the site, there were only like 6 level shots when I checked it out, and we all know 200 is about the appropriate number of level shots required per level. Thank you. 
Thanks For The Chuckle Zwiffle 
distrans, the confusion may had started because I am doing what is essentially an IkBlue level (some standard Blue in the mix for variation). 
Distrans 
whatever you're working with should be fine, heh. I'll probably add Headthump's section to the scrap map to finish it off, and just finish your map off whatever it needs by itself. 
Tronyn 
All the image links on

http://www.planetquake.com/tronyn/arcane/entities.htm

are busted. Links to files on your local hard drive aren't likely to work :-) 
The Reskinned Model 
looks pretty good.

As do the screenies but that was a given really. 
Tronyn 
I like that Cultist model, but would they use guns? Also, do you have any plans for music? I have a few tracks already done that haven't been used, I can do more. 
Models 
i sent tronyn some shots of the models, and he will put them up whenever he gets a chance. let me know what you think 
Hmm 
I like the 'monk with a shotgun' style of the model myself. Kind of steam punk-esque. 
Reminds Me Of 
Blood! 
I Like The Cultist Too 
It'd make a damn good soldier replacement, as well as fit right in with the ethos of my graveyard and library maps (contemporary/gothic). Dylan, send me a message through the form on my site and I'll let you know where to send the model/s.

Besides, having a few "laymen" around to do the dying should help bolster the illusion of a hierarchical coven. 
Hmm 
Also, make a huge cultist without the hood (and with shaved head) carrying a nail gun as an enforcer replacement. 
Cultists With Guns Is Like 
Commandos with spellbooks o_O 
Actually 
if you want it realistic, they should have glasses of cyanide cool-aid. 
The Local Masons' Lodge Doubles 
as a firing range,
so cultist with guns is not that rare a site 
Hmm 
Why are cultist in any way limited to a medieval/fantasy (ie, gun-less) environment?

People have been stupid enough to join cults throughout human history, including the modern day (see organised religion) 
Exactly 
and not all cultist would have the fine art of black magic, you do not have to present a resume of magic tricks to join a cult,now the priest and higher ranking ones would in essence use black magic, but not necassarily all of them 
It Has Been My Experience 
People have been stupid enough to join cults throughout human history, including the modern day (see organised religion)

At my old alma mater that the professors of the biology department were full of more shit and less argumentively rigorous than those of the religious studies department(coming from all three monotheistic religions as well as atheists). 
Personally, I Agree With What FC Said 
Wouldn't an evil cult want some brainwashed minions for cannon fodder? Additionally, Lovecraft's work takes place in the 1920s and 1930s, NOT in the middle ages.

Phait: you can send me the music tracks, as I haven't any other plans for music right now.

dyaln: The axeman and new scrag look great. The cultist I already put a shot on the site likewise. However, I still think a lot of the stuff looks too tech for this project (not that I wouldn't be happy to help you out on a tech project after this one's mostly done). You mentioned replacing the baron model? What did you have in mind?

I'll update the site within a week, with the model shots and misc other stuff. 
Hmm 
HeadThump, That's because science is effectively a set of 'best guesses', where as religion has always had philosophers/sceptics to deal with, so they need to have developed better (if still flawed) arguements. 
Good Point 
I'm speaking in general of course, the biologist tended not to know or were unable to differentiate between when they were speaking in emperically valid terms or when they were using ideological (positivist) conjecture. 
Science And Religion 
religion is about interpretation, for example take mary magdelan. in the catholic religion she was a whore who jesus led to the light. well the catholic bible has been retranslated unestimatable amounts of time and through over thirty languages,(being that monks hand scribed them and no two copies of bibles that are hundreds of years old are exactly alike, the monks put their own veriations in) there is a book called the dividian code, in the book they study an encryptologists translation of the oldest found bible, in it mary magadelan was jesus' wife, and they bore children. religion is interpretation and faith and is only as powerful as those two, science in essence is suppose to be concrete and has to be point to point exact, however this is not always so, majority determines morality, and sanity. 
my bad, dividian should be divinchi 
my bad, dividian should be divinchi 
Da Vinci 
0/2 
Hey Guys, 
It's all well and good if you want to discuss science or religion or whatever, but take it outside the board and stay on topic. Thanks. 
Who The Fuck Are These People 
[nt] 
Which 
people are you referring to? 
Fatty 
i got the shit sent 
I Could've Sworn I Already Said This But... 
...if we're going the horror route, why not grab the bolt gun from AoP (the pc that Fingers was part of); reskin the bolt as stake and lose the explosive aspect, reskin the bolt gun as stake gun and use it to replace the SG. 
or if you want, you can use my stake gun...
not a traditional crossbow style stake gun, but they are stakes. :)

i haven't been able to find anywhere to use it on, the project i'm working on currently isn't really suited for it.

you can use just the model or i can supply the code i already wrote for it... 
I'd Like To See 
a stake gun in this mod. With A1 sauce. Yeah. 
Well 
The SG/SSG are already modified in that they have explosive ammo (from painkeep), and there already are lava nails, multi-rockets, the chaingun AND the chainsaw... 
Tronyn 
Did you get my e-mail? 
Personally 
I dont enjoy all those different types of ammo stuff. I think it's cool to have useful new weapons like chaingun, chainsaw and even replacement weapons, but different ammo for the same guns is just fluff IMHO. 
I Agree With Nitin 
Plus, they generally make it cumbersome to switch weapons. Also, adding too many new weapons is just excessive and makes the game additionally cumbersome (14+ weapons now? Almost as many as Half-Life).

On the other hand, if you're just going to outright replace the older weapons, then that's fine. Just make sure the new ones are as cool as the old ones. :)

But it's not as if it's my mod and I have say in what goes on, mind you... 
K... 
...should've checked first. Several wep mods already. I agree that going too far can be lame...unless it's a TC. 
New Weapons 
it's not like I wanted new weapons but wanted to be half-assed and have new ammo only, heh, but I actually like how Rogue did new ammo in their mission pack a lot so I figured we could have it in this. It doesn't make switching weapons more cumbersome as you have to be out of the better ammunition to get to the normal ammunition (you don't press the weapon's number twice). Chainsaw directly replaces the axe, chaingun will either be press a number twice (the ONLY such weapon in this patch) or be #9 or something. 
Wait... 
you liked the rogue weapons?

you're joking, right? 
What's Wrong With Lavanails? 
BTW, Tronyn, I sent some e-mail with some arky tektur earlier today to the address listed on your website. Heads up! 
Necros 
not the "beefed up thunderbolt" or whatever, obviously the hipnotic ones with new models were way better than their "new" weapons, but I confess that yes, I did think, and continue to think, that multi-rockets were really cool.

not only that but as time goes by, I have actually begun to like the entire pack itself more. It isn't better than SoA (that'd be heresy, despite what PC Gamer thinks), but I esteem it more highly today than I did when it first came out.

headthump: got your mail, will have a look tomorrow. 
Fatty 
i resent the models and if i have to i will resend them one at a time let me know what needs to be done 
Headthump 
there's nothing wrong with lava nails, but what is the point of them?

Tronyn, do you think it's possible you could hook me up with a copy of DoE? 
Hehe 
yeah sure I'm sure no one would care now... do you have access to an FTP I could upload it to? I guess I could just put it up on PQ in a zipfile for a short time, dunno how well that'd go over though hehe... 
No Ftp 
unfortunately. If you could upload it for a day or so, that'd be awesome. 
Actually 
if DoE is going to be...ahem...available for a limited time, I might as well request a copy too, since I've never come close to playing it. 
Nitin 
there's nothing wrong with lava nails, but what is the point of them?

Having a slightly better gun that can handle a slightly better monster set, naybe. What is the point of varying anything? 
Ok, Both Of You Try 
http://www.planetquake.com/tronyn/unrogue.zip

16 megs. wow, it's a smaller download than SoE!
unzip to quake\rogue, then run it however you'd like. there are some documents included on how to get ctf and suchlike working (ctf is a great time, rogue ctf is the ONLY quake1 ctf I have ever got to work)

I think with rogue, the stuff they added was weirder and less accessable. They tried to do too many things rather than just make a small amount of quality custom monsters and weapons like those Ritual guys did. Also, a lot of the level design in Rogue's pack suffers from the same limitations that original Quake had - cramped, claustrophobic rooms-and-hallways with 1 tiny outdoor area per level type level design - the exact thing that Hipnotic designers tried very hard to alleviate (and for the most part succeeded). But for all that, some of their levels (Curse of Osiris, Tempus Fugit, Tower of Wrath) are really great, their new texture sets are nice, just about all of their new monsters are awesome, their new weapons (particularly multi rockets) may be hacks but they are cool hacks, and their extras like grappling hook, power shield, anti-grav belt and vengeance sphere are just great. There are some creative environmental effects and traps too (pendulums!). Add CTF and you've got a real winner IMHO.

let me know when you guys've got it. 
Tronyn 
I have it! Cut the line, cut the line! 
Not Yet 
give me a few more hours. 
 
i prefer dissolution over scourge.

but hey, what do i know. :P 
Also 
there's nothing wrong with lava nails, but what is the point of them?

I think your to literal in your intrepretation of the game here, not everything in quake [or any computer game for that matter] has to have a "point".

they are fucking cool, thats enough. 
My Point Is 
that they are really no different to normal nails.

Anyway, just my 2 cents. 
Tronyn 
cheers, much appreciated. 
DoE Weapons Suck 
They are unimaginative, rushed and even a bit redundant - "I know, lets make a new type of nail that makes the nailgun just like the super-nailgun, and turns the super-nailgun into a super-super-nailgun!!".

The other weapon "enhancements" weren't much better. 
Plink Plink Hiss 
I prefer to have a new gun that uses old ammo, rather than new ammo for an old gun. 
You'll Have To Pry My Lava Nail Gun 
from my cold dead hands . . . Yes! Now a fight worth fighting!

I haven't examined the lava nail code (in fact whenever I try to compile Rouge QC, Frikqcc chokes on it) but it seems to me that having weapons that differentiate in their attack values, and damage types (fire, ice, penetration, etc.) adds tactical flavor to any game.

Hell, why does Quake have to be any less sophisticated in this regard then say, Dungeon Master, a game that came out in 1987? 
---
apparently, lava nails do full damage regardless of armour levels in DM, but the do the same damage as regular nails (9).
with super lava nails, it appears as though armour is only 50% effect, and they still only do 18 dmg.

against, monsters besides the lava man, they do 50% more damage.
super lava nails do 30 dmg against non lava man monsters and lava nails do 15.
---

i personally dislike the rogue weapons, for the record. i find them redundant and lacking in imagination.
what's next? slime nails? also, the weapon skin was terrible. wow, they pasted a redish square at the end of the barrel, that's SO worth making a new gun for. cripes, we didn't even get a new model. same for the plasma gun... i mean, come on... the Zer chain lightning gun was way more useful and actually had it's own model and it wasn't even a commercial project. 
Heh 
And the multi grenade/rocket launcher model had yellow and black hazard stripes painted on the barrel, to show that the end of the weapon is, you know, dangerous. 
Mmmm . . . Slime Nails 
 
What Are We Supposed To Use, Man, Harsh Language? 
having weapons that differentiate in their attack values, and damage types adds tactical flavor to any game

Yes, of course. But it depends on what values you give them and, more importantly I think, how different they are from each other.
The lava weapons in DoE ( which I've just completed just now ) add nothing new to the arsenal; they're just orange nails with a few more dmg points. It's almost impossible for me to distinguish between the four nail weapons I now wield. Obviously, the perforator is better than the nailgun, but between NG, LNG and SNG there's no clear choice to be made. Most of the time I choose whatever of the four I happen to scroll to first and move on. This is what my above post refers to - it is better to make a new weapon with a new combination of gameplay properties ( hitscan/projectile/ballistic, ROF, ROD, ammo consumption etc. etc. ) using an existing ammo type, instead of inventing a new type of ammo but for an existing gun-type.

There are basically two ways to invent a new weapon - balance and gimmick. Most of the DoE stuff is gimmick, without question; taking a familiar weapon and merely giving it a twist.
The SoA weapons are not brilliant, but at least they add something to the gameply not avialable in vanilla.
For example, the lava nails could be differentiated from regular nails by not working underwater. Instead of appearing as extra weps in the inventory, they could simply superced the NG/SNG unless the player takes a dip, in which event the guns revert back to normal cold-iron nail ammo and therefore less dmg. The preferable solution, imo, would have been to make the 'lavagun' a different weapon altogether. Making the plasmalightning gun automatically gib zombies would be another specific gameplay benefit.

What the gun looks like is less important, though a new model with a decent skin is preferable for visual identification.
The DoE weps are the other way around. Average skins ( the multi-RL is a joke; I have this mental image of one of the Rogue guys, with his tongue sticking out to make more room in his head to think, cutting off strips of hazard-striped duct tape and carefully applying them to the id weapon barrels. ) The lava nail boxes look cool. But they add nothing very useful. Just a little more dmg and a very confused inventory. The multi 'nades/rockets are only beneficial against certain monsters in certain combats. Most of the time they are merely an inconvenience. And they don't assist in gibbing zombies, something I would expect of an advanced explosive-ammo.

The two weapons in Arcane Wizard that sound like the best inclusions are the chainsaw and chaingun. Completely replacing the axe makes sense - there's still only one melee weapon and its benefits can be taken into consideration in the map design. The chaingun may be similar to the perforator, but at least it's distinct from the nail weps and is precedented by, among others, Doom.

The best example of 'balance' weapon design is, like it or not, Q3A. Each of the guns was clearly designed - and playtested - to fulfil a role in combat. They all have their own ammo type which they do not share with another gun, they have obviously different properties when being wielded and they even have noticeably different sounds to emphasise their identities. Regarldess of what the intro cinematic or player manual would have you believe, the main characters of the game are the guns.
If making a new weapon, there's more to be learned from Q3A than DoE.

So, yeah, adding content like rarely-found powerups or exotic enemies because they're 'cool' is fair enough, but weapons are the backbone of any fps, especially in something like Quake whose gameplay is raw and simplistic. Get them right, and the gameplay will be good enough to excuse some shortcomings elsewhere. Get them wrong, and no amount of gimmickery will entertain.

ps: Starbuck, I divided this one into more paragraphs just for you ^_^ 
Tronyn,fatty 
tronyn-i sent you two more models for inspection,


fatty-did you finally get the file d/l to work? 
Dylan 
those look really good. Perhaps on the fragwiz, you could modify it more to differntiate it more from the normal cultist (this guy can cast magic spells and should be more badass, right) - my usual suggestion is, ahem, more spikes :) 
Oh And Btw 
I liked multi-rockets/multi-grenades in multiplayer. Curse of Osiris CTF was great. 
 
This is what my above post refers to - it is better to make a new weapon with a new combination of gameplay properties ( hitscan/projectile/ballistic, ROF, ROD, ammo consumption etc. etc. ) using an existing ammo type, instead of inventing a new type of ammo but for an existing gun-type.


That sounds about right. Except for the ammo bit. By bringing different forms of ammunition into the game, you add to the scarcity factor. Scarcity adds to the tactical edge and the realism of the game.

I digress in this sense as well, the DoE weapons do not rise to the level of gimmick. They are simple changes in the basic weapons and nothing more.

The gravity gun in Half Life, now there's a gimmick.

Lava nails,
proximity grenades,
Enforcer style laser rifle,

All are decent additions to the basic Quake format, they are just not over the top cool like the Zerst�rer weapons.

As for Q3A, sure it is balanced (though some pro-moders may disagree with that), but it is also too simple to be of much value when accessing the design of a modern single player FPS.

Dues Ex, for instance is much closer to the ideal that I'm looking for in weapon balance design. The weapons are extremely modifiable, and thus they progress in value as you play.

What Are We Supposed To Use, Man, Harsh Language?

Not a good idea. 
 
Regarldess of what the intro cinematic or player manual would have you believe, the main characters of the game are the guns.

indeed. 
Finished Half Life Yesterday... 
...I am now a fan of the crowbar. 
On Lava Nails 
maybe they should not work underwater, not take armour into consideration when doing damage, and be 1.x times as powerfulas regular nails (hey, maybe except against shamblers or something, as heat doesn't seem to bother them). To further differentiate, perhaps regular nails could richochet once. But then again, all of this stuff is probably not nessecary - this is an SPQ pack, not a tightly balanced Q3 that'll be played for years by discriminating millions. 
Dylan 
What version of QMe do I need to read .mdo format? 
..mdo Format 
Version 3.1 of QMe reads the .mdo format. If you have the full version of 3.0, download the demo of 3.1 and you'll get a patch that upgrades 3.0 to the full version of 3.1(no frame restrictions) 
Fc 
i can send you my version if you prefer? 
Fatty 
can u implement the nail ogres, if so i can think of a good cultist model to make from it, also have you gotten a chance to open those files? 
Distrans... 
HL1 I guess? 
Mappers 
any special requests on map models, let me know, i will start on them soon, because they are quickly done. 
Dylan, 
I've created a base model to replace the drone. No animation or skin for it yet, but it needs a mere 40 frames to match the drone.qc. If you are interested, I'll send it your way. 
Yeah Let Me See, It 
what is the drone, an enemy?turret

just send me the model dylansartain1@aol.com and a list of frames 
Will Do, 
it's an old monster model, last used in Operation Urth Magic, but I didn't feel the original looked very Quakey.

The frame structure is a little non standard (not grouped), I'll need to send the original model itself to give you an idea of the animation needed.

Thanks. 
 
 
Damnit... 
another phantom post. 
Anything Else For Anyone? 
any other map models etc.? 
Tronyn 
Important question:
Should we (I) aim at capability with vanilla quake or will this mod be custom engine only?

So what are the limits? (edicts, bmodels, etc) 
Well, 
I'm trying to make my maps work with vanilla Quake or at least FitzQuake. Any particular limit you need to exceed? :) 
Tronyn,headthump 
tronyn-- sent you a new model taking into consideration your suggestions about the last one, give me some feed back as to what you think, also let me know about the cherub...

headthump--got the older models sent as well as a preliminary concept of the drone.also let me know what you think 
Headthump 
i resent the files 
Hmm 
dylan, why? What did the files ever do to you?

(ba-boom-cha) 
Hmm 
if a tree falls in the woods, and no one is around to hear it, does it just lie there and rot? 
Hey Dylan 
I see I need to clean out a lot of stuff from my e-mail account. Probably the reason I haven't got the e-mails. Only my subscribed services are coming through it appears. I'll e-mail you later this afternoon to let you know how it is going on this end. Thanks. 
Here Are Some Model Shots Put Some More Up Tomorrow 
http://buckmontgomery.tripod.com/models/

let me know what you think, as well as give some constructive criticism and suggestions... 
Nice Work 
I like alot of them except for the executioner and cherub. 
Dylan 
sorry I didn't get to put your pics up on the arcane site, I've been ridiculous busy with school. Sorry to everyone but progress on my quake projects is going to be grindingly slow (that is, about the pace that a normal Q1 mapper goes at). I've got 3 planned maps for this, 1 being azure/ikeblue, another being coven of ebony/soe style underground libraries, and a third being the rogue tech-wizard one. To be realistic, if I'm doing all three this project would be released in the spring. Does that work for everyone or should I just finish one map and ditch the other two for an earlier release? 
Tronyn 
do all 3 planned maps, im sure they will be good enough to be worth the wait. ;) 
Dylan 
OMG someone who actually tries to make models and skins in an appropriately evile and grimy Quake style - wonders will never cease!!

In general they look very cool (and believe me I loathe shitty custom monsters) and properly nasty. However the few improvements I'd like to see: Less humanoids and more monsterous stuff, and a bit more coherency between the models.

Nice one. 
 
Yeah, Dylan, awesome work. Especially the Shalrath replacement, very cool. I tend to agree with Shambler about more freakishly wierd demon monster ogre things, but I personally like all of them except for the guy in suspenders. Keep up the great work !! 
Well Thank You 
i am trying to make critters that do fit in the quake world and will be new and unique, my question is, do we want to use all replacement models and make this a tc?

oh and when the new demon is done it will be freakishly meanicing and weird with pointy teeth and spikes and claws....

also the guy with the suspenders really doesnt go with the game he is just the character the website is named after,Buck Montgomery(freedom fighter extrardinaire), it was a comic i piddled with. 
I'd Like To See A Total Conversion 
Seeing Quake's original monsters along w/ new monsters is just odd for me. Could be cause every new monster implementation I've seen sucked... 
Hm... 
can't seem to access the link? 
Try This... 
Dylan 
Very cool - those are some of the best-looking (and in-theme) Quake 1 models I've seen. Who did the skins? They're great >:D Normally skins on custom monsters suck the big one, but these look very well done. 
I Did The Models And The Skins 
i do both the modelling and skinning, its the only way to complete your characters. 
Tronyn... 
...Spring, would be Autumn for those of us in the antipodes? If so, no problem as I'm using this mapping exercise as a way to learn vis grouping, while I'm waiting for the $ to build up enough for my new sys.

I've got a 1200 brush section all sealed up and am halfway through the next section (of roughly the same size/detail). There'll be four "sections" all together. Yaaay for vis grouping, my machine would've been juddering by now without them.

I'll just potter away, send it through then get back to the other project when the new sys is up.

The more levels the merrier I reckon. 
Yup 
sounds like this project will be quite large, which does make it merrier for sure. I'm thinking release for around March or April or something like that. 
... 
i dunno... i just can't seem to get the site to load,even with the new url... maybe it's tripod? 
Necros 
try http:// buckmontgomery/ tripod/ models

try typing it in instead of clicking the link 
Nope... 

Bad Gateway
The following error occurred:
[code=DNS_HOST_NOT_FOUND] The host name was not found during the DNS lookup. Contact your system administrator if the problem is not found by retrying the URL.


-----------
Please contact the administrator.
 
Necros 
the link works for me, IP = 209.202.240.100 .

Maybe you could try flushing the DNS cache (if there is one) or check the hosts file for blocking. 
Aguire: 
what is a DNS cache (temporary internet files folder?)
and what is the hosts file? 
DNS Cache 
You can have such a thing locally on your machine to speed things up (I have one) not having to make DNS queries to an external server all the time. It's not the TIF folder.

The hosts file is a local text file that also can have fixed DNS relocations (actually it's the first one that is queried). Search for the file and you'll find it. It's commonly used to block out bad sites, ads or other evile things. 
... 
so, search for a file "hosts"?
what should i do with the file?

also, for the DNS cache, how can i find that?

(not at home, so i can try it right now :P) 
Hosts File 
Take a look here http://accs-net.com/hosts/index.html

DNS Cache utility: http://www.analogx.com/contents/download/network/fc.htm

Please note that they both require some regular maintenance to work well.

Also, if you're running W2K/XP, there's a built-in DNS Client service that in my experience causes more trouble than it solves. It can be safely set to manual in most cases. 
DNS Cache 
I've had problems with that where I'd type in one URL and get an entirely different website, but similiar URL. Clearing the cache helps. 
Ive Got Some New Stuff To Update On The Site 
ive got some new stuff, will update by friday.
a new demon model, almost ready for viewing, and a completely new one, aswell as some new skins for other models ive done etc. ill get some visuals for feedback.right now i am animating some models and making several skins per model, so maybe we can have some variety in the game rather than gunning down the same monster every single time. 
Tronyn 
Spring sounds as a good date for release, because I'm currently not available to map, that why I have an unexpected break. But I hope to return my comp in a month or so and continue my map. It's about 1/4 ready atm (1/3 of all planned architecture and no entities so far)

btw when will the compiled progs.dat be ready? 
Oops 
I've been dropping the ball there, but it'll be more or less ready once:

1. Exploding shells implemented
2. Problems with the slug ammo box are fixed
3. Zer Troglodyte/Nemesant implemented
4. Any compile bugs squashed

I haven't implemented the Ontranto crossbowmen/archers yet.

More to the point, I'm beginning to wonder about restarting Tower of Yoth from scratch. I've been somewhat influenced by the Daedric ruins in Morrowind; all those wack-ass angles would look good, along with a stronger Anonca Base vibe. 
Deadric Architecture 
roxors. ;)

seriously, i'm in love with all those sharp angles and viscious edges. :P 
Yeah, 
glad someone else digs the Anonca Base levels. 
OK Then 
Excuse me while I do things to textures. Don't expect much in the way of purple though. 
New Pics Up 
Hmmm... 
The new fiend is good as a model, the new shambler isn't.

And I don't think either of the originals needed changing as there are two of the most characterful models in Quake.

Can't you put the good style of the new fiend to use as something else?? 
Well 
I think the new shambler and fiend are cool.
I have a suggestion also: I think a version of the (CLASSIC) doom "Pinky" demon would be a great enemy for Quake SP (in the style the fiend and shambler are done in). It would fill a gap in the medium-speed, high health melee enemy category (the closest is the fiend, but its lunging and slashing rather than running make it a hugely different enemy). 
Pinkies. 
Didn't Necros already do a converted fiend for At The Gates Of Midian?

That rocked. The biting fiend I mean. And the level, of course. 
Yeap, That Is Still My Favorite 
Necros level. 
... 
you probably already know this, but i thought i'd mention that it's best if your skins are in powers of two dimensions, like textures are:
64x64, 128x128, 512x256, etc...
otherwise, glquake needs to resize them itself, and the results aren't usually pretty.

cheers (though i still can't see the website :P) 
Yeah 
its actually best if you do them by increments of four, it seams to work out better, and is compatible for more custom engines. 
Oh Shitsn! 
i was finally able to access the monster page!!! those are some damn impressive monsters! i like the spikey fiend!
also, lots of detail on the skins is a major plus as well.

roxors! 
Ah Skeet Skeet Skeet 
i hate lil jon.

any way thanks for the compliment. 
YYYEEAAAAAHHHHHHH 
OOOOOKKKKAAAAAYYYYYY 
More Model Pics To Be Critiqued 
put up some more stuff and got the "pinky" like thing i created, or at least created upon as much of the original pinky as i could remember and quite frankly there arent that many classic doom pictures available now that the new one is out.


http://buckmontgomery.tripod.com/models 
Dylan, 
I went ahead a sent some pinky pics that may help you. They are actually the in game sprites.

I've been replaying Rouge lately (thanks Tronyn!), and I can't help but think that the monsters on the first two pages in particular would look good for a Hell Fortress styled episode. 
Hmmmm 
Not too sure about that pinky. It'd be better if you based him off the Doom3 pinky, but without the silly "cyber" bits. 
Title Cannot Be Empty 
I really like it. I don't know if it suits the project, but if it's completely animated then I wouldn't mind fiddling around with it!

... not that I have any time these days, but it still looks cool. 
Hey Lth 
i checked out cyberquake, its pretty cool concept. i sent you an .mdl of a player model i had laying around that might fit that mod, and i currently have no use for. 
Oh, That Reminds Me 
I still have some issues with the alt-weapons (Rogue stuff, chaingun etc.) Not only that, but I still have to implement explosive shells too, but that shouldn't take long once I find Painkeep and some other ammo model for the slugs - one that works.

Trigger_read is causing me to scratch my head. What the hell was I thinking when I coded it!?

I'm also preparing some prefabs for the rebuilding of Tower of Yoth in a more outre style, but until I figure out why FitzQuake is going all psychedelic, I'm going to concentrate on preparing the graveyard map. Depending on how complex the "topside" turns out, I might break it into two.

(Both the library/start map and the graveyard are "contemporary", so I'll use radiosity lighting. For some reason FQ renders those sorts of lightmaps properly. Sigh... I'd rather be modding in Morrowind.) 
Headthump 
can you send me the drone animations again, i cant remember where i saved them to. 
Hey Dylan, 
I can get that to you tommorow afternoon.

Cheers, 
tomorrow. 
Arrrr, Hoist Me On A Petard! 
And shoot me out into the sea.
You got me there, Captain! 
Fatty, Tronyn 
I still don't understand what exactly trigger_read is.
Does it simply display some text to the player or is there anything more? 
The Idea 
trigger_read entities, when touched, allow the player to "open" books (or any other object bearing gobs of textual information) and "page through" them.

The trigger itself is actually a point entity about the size of an info_player_start, which the player has to not only touch, but be facing in the right direction to use.

The text itself is held in multiple info_page entities with the same targetname as the trigger's target, with the sequence marked by the count key.

The overall effect is: player sees an open book, or plaque on the wall, and goes over to it. He should at first hear a beep and see a message top left; "Reading matter here" or somesuch. Impulse XXX presents the first page, which is persistent until either he moves away (which closes the "book") or impulses again to go to the next page.

This has been causing me some grief to get working, but I think I may have cracked it by having the trigger be far more pro-active now. 
Ouch... 
sounds hard on edicts...

would it not be better to store all the strings in the same entity via say, message1, message2, message3, message4, etc... up to maybe 20 (surely no book can have more than 20 pages...) or whatever... otherwise, a 10 page book will use up 11 edicts, one info_page for each page plus the trigger itself...

just a 0.02$ contribution... :) 
Trigger_read 
sounds good. I have a perfect place in my map to use it.
But as necros said, will edicts be a problem then? 
Necros 
You might have a good point there, but then every entity would have twenty strings allocated to it. Wouldn't that bloat the in-game data enormously?

(I have to admit it would make paging much easier though...) 
A Better Solution 
would be to use existing string fields that are either unreferenced in the C code, or would have no side-effects anyway - .message, .netname, .noise, .noise1, .noise2, .noise3, .noise4, .wad, .map, .deathtype...to name just ten.

It might look a bit ugly, but it's better than declaring new entity variables. 
Bleh @ Kinn, ;) 
it might have mattered on a 486.

as far as i know, there aren't any hard limits in qc that prevent one from making tons of new variables.

god knows i must have added at least 3 times the amount of vars into this one project.

sadly, one cannot use arrays... :\ 
Trigger_read 
This sounds really cool.. One could make a somewhat deeper plot than usual for Quake ;)

How is the actual text displayed on the screen? Is it just using the centerprint function?
I guess the only other way would be using a modified engine with fancier a 'book' background and nicer font. 
Don't Need A Modified Engine For That. 
just spawn a sprite which behaves like the weapon model in that it tracks the player's viewpoint. i'm not sure exactly how to do this, but i know it's possible.

it could be as simple as temporarily replacing the player's viewweap with the book sprite then putting it back when the trigger is turned off. 
Oh... 
sprites can't be used as weapon models. Crashes the game (at least, it crashes glquake.) 
Ah, Ok. 
i hadn't know that.

hm... well, you could do this instead:
restrict the player's movement and viewpoint until the player presses a certain key (send a impulse) to quit from reading.
spawn the book sprite in front of the player at the appropriate distance.

i think there'd be problems with this method though, because the sprite might get spawned too near to walls and get clipped inside...

you could make the entity turn the player to an exact angle to get rid of that though... this would need a lot of fine tuning, i suspect... probably more work that it's worth...

oh wait! you could just have a .mdl which was a flat polygon with the skin of the book on it... then just load up different skins on the same model and cycle through them as you 'read'. 
Well 
The original idea was to use good ol' centerprint, while the player stayed more or less still and impulsed as required, and could just turn/back away at any time. After all, if something decides that reading player is the dish of the day, you want to be able to run away.

Besides, how many 'pages' of text is a player willing to page through? My personal suspicion is about eight. What do the rest of you think? 
For Quake? 
1 or 2.

depending on how much text there was. quake is all about action, so unless the book was fairly interesting, i doubt i would read more than a couple of pages. 
It Depends On Tronyn's Concept 
for the mod. If it is a Quake based Action\Adventure game, the way The Demon King was, fairly detailed text may be necessary to fullfill sequences of quest and such.

I tend to lean to the position that you can have narative driven episodes that donot take volumes of text to accomplish the goal like in the Rune of the Space God.

The most brilliant example I have seen of this is in a Half-Life map called Someplace Else where the player is directed on his mission located on a remote Xen based floating isle by a hyper intelligent alien hiding from the Xen creatures.

(I would also recommend it for its map design -- it is an interesting mixture of Sock_tech and Xen.) 
Headthump 
and heavily inspired by Aliens, not that that's a bad thing. 
Do We Have A Release Date Yet? 
my work has begun to slow down due to taking on duel employment. i was curious how much longer i have, to try to minimalize the allnighters if possible. 
Well, 
I've been pulling all nighters with school alone lately. But thankfully I have December basically off, so I hope to get some done. I think the spring/summer ish period is still a good release date.

As for the concept, I don't think it will be really ultra-coherent, but it would be fun to tell a simple but dramatic story through the project. Still not sure how many maps I'll have (1, 2, or 3). How's everyone else's stuff going? 
Badly. 
The trigger_read still won't work properly, I'm getting sick of my Arcane map, the goddamn fargnaxing Library is still too damn dark, and the Graveyard just isn't cohering at all.

What I might do over the weekend is release a version of the resource set without a few things. At the very least it'll give you lowlives something to play with while I fix up the rest of it. 
OK, V0.9 Of The Resource Kit Is Up 
While I said I would release a version this weekend, bear in mind that there's still a lot of stuff that doesn't work properly. However, it should be enough to help build/populate your maps with guns and things to test 'em on. Damn this fine weather!

http://www.planetquake.com/fatty/smile/betas/arcane_v0-9.zip 
Ya... 
2500 brushes, 410 entities... still going. Can't send a sample yet, as my floppy drive shat itself (and I'm not "connected" at home). I'll get a new one sometime soon. Are standard ogres and zombies staying in? 
Yep 
I haven't removed any monsters.

I've also decided to dike the directional part of the trigger_read for convenience; now I have to figure out how to make the impulse detection less scattershot.

/me peers at reference to figure out what needs doing next 
Fatty... 
...didn't the Demon King (TDK) mod have a working "read" function? 
Maybe 
I'll see if I have it, or can find it, or something. I was disk-diving just before trying to find a suitable ammo model for the chaingun's slugs. I just hope any decompiled code is easy to understand.

(Incidentally, the reading stuff actually works fine, I think. I just have to tweak my test sample first...) 
Random Idea 
I just came up with a random idea the other day that might be neat. I've been looking into how one could make it possible to pick up objects the map... a la half-life 2. An impulse command would trigger the closest object the player is facing to lift up.. and be 'carried' by the player until the object is set down. The difficulty might be preventing the object from clipping through walls? I dont know.. my quake c is pretty weak ;)

Say, the player would have to find some objects such as candelabras or other magic items around the map and arrange them to perform some sort of ritual, perhaps something they could read about in a book using the 'trigger_read' :)
There could be triggers to detect if the objects were placed in the correct places.. 
Probably 
wouldn't work with quake.

theoretically, you could continuously set the object's velocity to the player's velocity, but you'd need to do it almost constantly. if a player got bad framerate (say 10-20fps) the velocity updating wouldn't be smooth, and the object would get out of sync. so you'd also need a check to reset the position in relation to the player every so often or if the object moves to far out of sync.

overly complicated for very little returns... i wouldn't bother with it.

'course, it ain't my mod. :D 
Edit: 
on the other hand, you could just keep setting the object's origin in relation to the player's taking into account the player's angles as well, but that would still succumb to unsmooth movement... 
 
I'm still waiting for more screenies!! Update the screenies plz! 
Smooth Movement 
I reckon you'd only notice the jumping if it was a networked game, in a single player game it should be smooth if updated every frame(like using playerprethink to update it, not the player animation frame macros). Of course, if you're updating the origin directly you'd have serious collision checking issues, so it'd probably be best for the object to be non solid as you go. It'd be easier to have the item act like a key, with a little bit of the hud lit up when you carry it, and then when you enter the trigger to just respawn the item in the correct place. Less aesthetically pleasing but a load simpler.

Personally I reckon a good ritual would be a blood ritual, where you needed to 'sacrifice' a certain number of monsters in some kind of ceremonial chamber to perform the magic. You could even have a fake blood brush(just make it non solid with water texture)that rose a bit with each kill/damage. ALthough that might look tacky, especially if it rose loads for each wound. Once the required level was achieved you'd be able to progess - the ritual would open the portal/summon the boss monster/etc. Then again it sounds kinda simple, so it's possible someone's done it and I'm just remembering the idea...In fact I do remember this in a map, but not as a combat where you fought monsters for the sacrifice. Ah well... 
 
 
 
 
There! 
there are your phantom posts. For some reason there were like 8 posts in the database that had invalid icons, so when i cross-referenced them with the icon table, they would vanish. The good news is that no real posts were lost; they were all blank posts. The bad news is, where are they coming from? 
Bad Posts 
What happens if you submit a post and then hit stop really quickly? Will the browser tell the server "here I have some stuff to give you" and then not give it anything? 
I Don't Know... 
if it's possible for the browser to send half an http request, the server probably ignores it. 
 
possible certain unstandard browsers are sending empty data rather than someone's post? 
Hmm... 
one encouraging thing is that nobody has actually complained about their own posts being missing... so hopefully no data is being lost. 
maybe they go missing with their posts. that would explain why they don't complain. 
:o 
Then who's next??


/me hopes it's Scampie. 
 
 
Another One! Fuck 
 
Hrmn 
If i made my own external php script (for a new post) and POST'ed it it to your handling script, but with invalid icon id, would it give the same results? (cross site scripting, i guess would be the term) 
Maybe... 
I have some server-side validation, but not enough. One of those "to do someday" items. 
NotoriousRay 
That's hardly what people usually mean by cross site scripting. 
Did I Ask You? 
Just trying to help. Go piss on someone else, smartass. 
Ah 
Just for a post here that's actually to do with this project, here's what's up with me:

One map 65% done, another 30% done.
I guess FC, you're still doing the pack and the start map?
Pulsar and Dylan, are still involved right?
Right now I'm projecting 3 maps plus the start, is that correct? 
That's The Intention 
 
 
 
Yep 
just slowed due to computer difficulties 
Post #386 
:o 
Not To Mention #378 
:o 
Yeah Yeah.... 
this thread is CURSED!!!!! 
Well... 
The thread title is "Arcane Wizard" after all. 
 
 
PHANTOM POST! 
 
 
Umm 
Damn, another one. 
 
 
 
 
Yet Another Missing Post 
I blame ninjas. Or perhaps pirates of some variety other than butt. 
No Two Missing 
:/ 
 
 
Tronyn 
i am still working my progress is just sloooow, my computer is f*cking up on me and i need to format and reinstall, but it is difficult when you work 80 hours a week....
i will have everything done tho so all entities will have replacements and i have made the custom monsters as well will send em soon hopefully 
Hey 
got your email, don't worry about it. For half of november and most of december I was too busy with school and then work to even touch Worldcraft. The models can be done whenever you have a chance. I've always considered this a "when it's done" project.

PS: FC, if you're still around, you could post here or send me a mail about what stuff has made it into the QC? If I survive writing this paper and a few other things, I just might think about starting to put monsters and such into my map...

cheers all around. 
Tronyn 
i am still working my progress is just sloooow

I can say the same thing. My map is about 50% ready (maybe 40%, it depends on how complex gameplay part will be). 
Tronyn 
I think I will need some more time to finish my map, I think of mid/late summer as a date of completion. Is that fine?

That's because I study in athother city atm and don't have pc there. Probably I will get it there, it will be clear in a few weeks. I'll let you know if it happens, then I could finish my map much earlier.

btw here's one screenshot of it:
http://quakemaps.nm.ru/screens/arc_1.jpg 
Pulsar 
Yeah that's ok. If you're going to take that long, then I'll definately be able to finish a second map for this project (no screenshots yet). It's the one inspired by Rogue's Towers of Wrath (as opposed to the one I've put shots of on on the site, which is a knave/ikblue textured thing). 
Btw Heh 
checked out the shot and it looks really nice!

I'll try to shoot for an update on the site within another month or two, with some more shots and info etc. 
.plan 
In between essays, work and ennui, I've been poking at the QC.

trigger_read still will not page past "page 1", and I can't figure out why; the code looks okay, for crying out loud. It might be that you could well be limited to Unreal-style messages - one small page of text. Yuck.

I'm also in two minds about implementing explosive shells. I can't see the point, and it's getting to where my brain hurts thinking about doing so.

So the feature list is as follows:
Weapons
* Chainsaw replaces Axe
* Chaingun
* Multi-rockets (need testing)
* Lava Nails (need testing)
Monsters
* Acolytes, Sorcerors and Warlocks
* Ritual Gremlins
* Axeman
* Rogue Wraths
* Zerst�rer Troglodyte
* Rogue Dragon
Environmental
* func_ladder
* func_bsp
* func_breakaway
* func_nodraw
* func_bspframe
* func_model
* func_tree
* extra keys
* master and slave fields for several entities
? trigger_read (still buggy)

These are described in more detail in the a_docs.html file in v0.9 of the resource pack, which is can be downloaded from http://www.planetquake.com/fatty/smile/betas/arcane_v0-9.zip

BTW: func_ladders rock. 
Hey! 
I didn't have 'net access for the last week or so, but this sounds great! Thanks a lot FC! 
On Exploding Shells 
i was thinking that a way to make them useful would be to make them use a different type of explosion than normal.

i'm thinking an explosion that deals very little damage over the same radius with less fall off than regular explosions.
so, something like
damage = 15*(100/dist);
if (dist < 100)
damage = 15;


anyway, the result of this is that it would be useful for groups of weaker monsters, but useless against more powerful monsters (which makes sense since these are shells after all) and won't overpower the weapon.

just some random idea. :) 
I Quit. 
Here's the source code and the start map sources and wad:

http://www.planetquake.com/fatty/smile/betas/arcane_source.zip

I have far too much to do right now with work driving me insane and other matters, and I do not see the situation improving any time soon. If anyone wants to try fixing up my loose ends, more power to you. (Tools included.)

More to the point, I simply have no interest in Quake modding any more. I have other infants to fry, and matters to pursue, and I'd best cut my losses where I can. 
Awww 
That's sad.

I put the frowny face icon to indicate the sadness. 
That Is Sad... 
but good job on releasing the source. Hopefully someone will pick it up and finish it. 
When Source Code Makes You Wanna Puke 
you know it's time to give up.

Now I have to knuckle down and start that fucking 3000-word essay. 
Shit 
i just got set up to start finishing the shit 
Well, 
exams are over within 2 weeks for me. After that I'll be getting into finishing this project, including seeing if I can get anyone to finish the code. Expect an update on my site early may.

Thanks for your work to this point FC, I appreciate the effort, not just on this but on other projects as well, and particularly SOE. Good luck in future endeavours, may they be more rewarding than just a bunch of anonymous guys on the internet thinking that you're cool a fleeting sense of personal accomplishment :) 
Bah 
...should read "and a fleeting sense of personal accomplishment..."
(hopes recent essays didn't contain similar omissions) 
Heh 
It's like your recent Feb 2004 site update ... 
Hey! 
How's this thing coming along? Still alive? D: 
Still Alive, Tis True 
Expect a site update (of the arcane site) by the end of the month.

Looking for someone to replace FC as code-dude. 
QC Police On Patrol 
If the project is still going/alive/speeding along behind the scenes, you might like to know that the following code fixes the trigger_read problem


void() read_touch ={

local entity stemp;

if (other.classname != "player")
return;


if (other.impulse == IMP_READ)
{
if (self.axhitme == 1) {
return; // leggo the key, dumbass!

} else {

self.axhitme = 1; // edge detection
return;
}
}

if (self.axhitme == 1)
{


self.count = self.count + 1;
if ((self.count > 12) || (self.count > self.cnt))
self.count = 0;
self.axhitme = 0;
}


if ((self.attack_finished > time) && (self.count == 0))
return;


// FIXME: Close book if the string in question is null
if (self.count == 1) {
centerprint2 (other, "\n\n\n\n\n", self.message);
}
else if (self.count == 2) {
centerprint2 (other, "\n\n\n\n\n", self.noise);
}
else if (self.count == 3) {
centerprint2 (other, "\n\n\n\n\n", self.noise1);
}
else if (self.count == 4) {
centerprint2 (other, "\n\n\n\n\n", self.noise2);
}
else if (self.count == 5) {
centerprint2 (other, "\n\n\n\n\n", self.noise3);
}
else if (self.count == 6) {
centerprint2 (other, "\n\n\n\n\n", self.noise4);
}
else if (self.count == 7) {
centerprint2 (other, "\n\n\n\n\n", self.wad);
}
else if (self.count == 8) {
centerprint2 (other, "\n\n\n\n\n", self.map);
}
else if (self.count == 9) {
centerprint2 (other, "\n\n\n\n\n", self.deathtype);
}
else if (self.count == 10) {
centerprint2 (other, "\n\n\n\n\n", self.model);
}
else if (self.count == 11) {
centerprint2 (other, "\n\n\n\n\n", self.weaponmodel);
}
else if (self.count == 12) {
centerprint2 (other, "\n\n\n\n\n", self.netname);
}
if ((self.count == 0) && (self.attack_finished < time))
{
// alert player with sound cue
stemp = self;
self = other;
centerprint (self, " ");
bprint("Readable message\n");
self = stemp;
self.attack_finished = time + 3;
return;
}

else
self.attack_finished = time + 0.1;
};


Arrgh, the board swallows all the tabs, so it's an unindented mess. Should still work though, I have the qc file here in any case.

You will also need to add

void(entity client, string s1, string s2) centerprint2 = #73; // sprint, but in middle

to defs.qc just below the original centerprint function. Technically all the changes to the centerprint bits are cosmetic, they weren't the crucial fix. What they do mean is that the crosshair doesn't get in the way of the text. It's just possible that doing this will cut off the ends of long strings, if so, change it back.

So, anything else need doing? 
Preach: 
it's not the board's fault; HTML viewers are supposed to treat any sequence of tabs, spaces and carriage returns as generic 'whitespace' which gets collapsed into a single space. 
Preach 
maybe you could be the coder of the project since fat controller has left it 
Coding 
Yeah, I'd be up for that. I've got a lot of free time on my hands until term starts again in October.
So what needs doing coding wise? I know the trigger_read was causing problems for a while, but I'm not sure what else is needed for the pack. Is there anything in particular that the mappers need, like a monster that doesn't work right? Or is there a head mapper I should get in contact with who'll set me straight? 
Great 
the head mapper is Tronyn, you should contact him for more details.

As for what mappers need - it would be nice for me to include earthquake and lightning effects. 
Tronyn 
Is progs.dat ready? The architectural part of my map is almost ready. I think it's time for me to place monsters. I have a marksurfaces problem in my map, so I'll probably make a final battle in a separated map.

But I also have an idea that it would be good if we make all maps in progression one after other. I'm not sure if it will work, but I need hear someone's opinion. 
 
I can't use my own computer to edit anything right now, but my map has been at monster-placing phase for a while now. I think having all the maps in sequence would be a good idea.

Preach: Sorry I haven't been in contact, while trying to fix my mess of a computer I lost all of my email. An address that works for me right now is djg164@mail.usask.ca. Once Pulsar and I get some entities into our maps it'll provide a lot more ability to test/fix/code whatever with the arcane progs.dat. 
Tronyn 
What progs.dat do you use? I found that the one FC posted a long ago (v0.9) had a lot of unworking stuff. Some monsters don't work, my func_plats don't move etc. And there's no spawn fuctions there afais. And no earthquakes and corpse removal so far.

btw is it possible to make fgd file for these progs.dat? 
Hmm 
I'm placing entities (monsters etc) in my map right now, and I'll test how well it works with the 0.9 progs. I'll compile a list of things that don't work and then email it to Preach for fixing. Pulsar, you could do the same with the issues you mentioned.

An FGD probably isn't that difficult; I haven't made one before but I think I know how; I'll look into it. 
 
I'll compile a list of things that don't work and then email it to Preach for fixing. Pulsar, you could do the same with the issues you mentioned.

That sounds like a good idea. I'll do it.
So monsterspawning don't work? oh I plan a lot of spawning in monsters in my map.

And FGD would be great 
The Baron 
The Baron uses the DDZ base, with permissions, and EvilBastard is mentioned quite prominently in the Nehahra credits.

I must confess though I didn't have the experience with converting models in the skinmap department in 2000, so the skinmap was atrocious and the vertexes suffered degradation, which was a bit saddening as I'm a great admirer of Evilbastard's work.

I've already rectified that for the re-release and Ep4 though, and the baron looks great.

I had to comment because I took offense with the "rip-off" comment. I always give credit where credit is due and have no interest in taking the credit for other people's work, which is why there were so many names on the passive contributor's list. I am so conscientious of it that I am nearly anal about it and I see nothing wrong with using models that have free permissions if said models reflect what you envisioned in your head (though I am more often than not *inspired* by existing models, rather than inspired to create or find a model to match an image in my head). The alternative is trying to build a model just like it. Why rebuild something that already exists if you're free to use it? It would be silly to do so.

Anyhoo, pluck your turds out of my bubble bath :( 
 
That was in response to an old post #196.

But I couldn't let it go :p 
Evilbastard 
quality modeller, ratamahatta and hueteotl were another two of his I really liked. 
Good Luck 
i hope you guys finish this project some time, i still play the odd q1sp, and this is something i really look forward to. good luck guys! 
Preach 
Did you recieve my email? 
Troubled Times 
I just got it, my connection's been on the blink over the past few days. I'm looking into the problem, but not got anywhere yet. I don't think it's the problem mindcrime mentioned, it looks like there's already a second items field and all the flags look small enough. If you can come up with reproduction steps that produce this bug every time that would help me narrow it down. I've managed to reproduce it a few times when I run out of ammo with a weapon, but not reliably. 
AguirRe Has Suggested 
using the zerstorer spawn64 qc instead of hipnotic func_spawn, since it is faster and lightens the load for the engine. Since FC's progs don't have a func_spawn anyway (right?) maybe we could just forget putting those in and put in the spawn64 instead?

Update on my map: I've got all the gameplay (doors, buttons, routes, etc) done and am just starting to place monsters and items.

Kona: Thanks, long time no see 
Preach 
Nails are not collected at all. And weapons (NG and SG) dessapear when ammo is out. And not always disappear when I switch to another. 
Progress 
I believe I've got the disappearing weapons bug, or at least one of them, there was a flag being subtracted from the wrong field that was corrupting the items list when you took damage exceeding the amount of armour you had. It's possible other bits of code will be doing the same thing, so I'll keep testing.

The nail thing was also pretty easy to fix, and I'm confident that'll be ok. The wrong ammo icons might take a little longer, FC changed all the values of the item flags around, and that has an impact on the HUD, which basically reads the items fields for what to display. Do make sure you're playing it with -rogue though, that improves some things.

Afraid I can't give out the progs with these fixes, I'm posting this from a public computer as the network here has failed again. Nor can I download any source, which would help me get some things sorted. So in the meantime, what is spawn64? Is it essentially adding a spawnflag to a monster to make it teleport in when triggered rather than spawn at the start? That was what I was planning on doing, func_spawn seems a bit too much for most purposes. 
 
well, the basic idea of the zerstorer spawn function is that it checks if you've checked the spawnflag for it (can be 64, can be whatever) and then stops the code before setting model, movetype and solid values and the call to walkmonster (or fly/swim) (but after setting the .th_ functions). it also sets the .use to a function that completes the monster setup. so when the monster is triggered, the model gets set and it becomes visible, plays the teleflash and then goes to the stand animation awaiting to be awakened. 
Tronyn 
Update on my map: I've got all the gameplay (doors, buttons, routes, etc) done and am just starting to place monsters and items.

So we decided to make all maps in sequence? I remember you wanted my map to be the first one. Then you should keep in mind that player already has most of weapons when you place monsters. Right? 
Happy Day 
Ok, I can get internet from my computer now, so I've uploaded the latest progs. Grab grab grab:
http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/ajd70/progs-11-10-05.zip

This is just a bug fix, weapons don't disappear randomly, and trigger_read works. Features like proper ammo icons and spawnflags for teleporting are on the way, but I figured getting something usuable quickly would be most beneficial. For best effect use the -rogue switch on the command line. 
Preach 
that's great. downloading now 
I Don't Have Rogue 
so monster_eel, all magi (monster_acolyte, monster_sorceror and monster_warlock) and monster_wraith don't work. 
Not Only That... 
But when enforcers die, they stay solid, and they spew out lots of backpacks, each pack holding 5 cells...

Oh, and some bastard removed impulse 12 as well... 
Today's Build 
Here we go, today's work.

http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/ajd70/progs-12-10-05.zip

You don't need rogue to get those monsters, all the -rogue switch does is turns on the new HUD graphics. I've included the updated gfx.wad from rogue in today's package, and since I'm so nice have even made custom icons for the chaingun and ammo : - ). The reason the monsters you listed didn't work was problems in the code. The wrath and eel had qc files all ready to go, but they weren't included in the build process. The mages didn't work because of a bug in the code, that occurred several times, but is an easy fix once you spot it.

Hadn't spotted the bug with enforcers, it comes about as a result of the rewrite FC did of all the monster spawning code. Gotta admit, the fountain of backpacks was lovely to watch. It's also been fixed in this build, enforcers now behave. What did impulse 12 do, was it cycle weapons backwards? Let me know and I'll fix it tomorrow. 
Very Nice 
magi work now =)

I hope you'll add last monsters soon. Also make func_train start to work (I think there's something with that 'master/slave' fields bug). And the greatest feature will be spawnflag teleporters.

btw who cares about enforcers in medival mod? 
 
the enforcers do. think of the enforcers. :( 
Lol!! 
If dylan sartain's around somewhere, I thought he was going to replace the enforcer models/themes with cultists. 
More Bugs: 
(btw, impulse 12 is cycle backwards, yes)

l_spike.mdl isn't precached.

Quake crashes when you try to cycle weapons while holding the lava NG.

There isn't a model for the chainsaw.

I get a multi-coloured blob instead of shell casings from the chaingun.

Sorry for listing so many bugs, but I tend to notice these things... If you need a fresh pair of eyes on the code then I can take a look for you. Feel free to contact me off-list.

LA

PS: Is there anything else I should get for testing this, apart from the progs.dat ? 
Bugs, Bugs 
Don't stop sending me bug reports, it's useful, not annoying! Most of the fixes for these things are easy, but I don't have time at the moment to both playtest the hell out of the mod looking for bugs and to fix them. Once I know there's a problem I can get straight on it. Like the lava ng stuff passed me by as it doesn't get given to you with impulse 9 - which I suppose constitutes another bug : - ).

Also, pulsar, which monsters are missing? Let me know and I'll try and get em into today's build. 
Heh 
Like the lava ng stuff passed me by as it doesn't get given to you with impulse 9 - which I suppose constitutes another bug : - )

I just assumed that that was a part of the weapon cycling bug...

The crash whe cycling from the Lava NG is a runaway loop - I have a crash screnshot if you want it.

I assume that the idea is to have the alternate ammo type show up on the status bar when using an alternate weapon, just like in DoE. I can't exactly remember how that is done, although poking around in the DoE source and DP engine source might help. But I think that you will need to pay attention to the variable names that you use. 
Preach 
Monster_ell and monster_wraith.

Also a minor bug - I get a message the fiend's idle2.wav is not precached everytime I see fiend (tho it's not idling) 
PuLSaR 
Have you got a map that I can specifically test this with? 
 
what do you want to test? 
Lava Eels 
http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/ajd70/progs-13-10-05.zip
Now contains everything you need for monster_eel. Monster_wrath was actually working yesterday, make sure you spell it without an i...wraith looks more natural to me, but the files and QC all spell it wrath. Same goes for the idle.wav bug, nailed that one yesterday : -).

On the lava_nails, it's less good news. The problem is that the lava_nailgun really hasn't been implimented at all yet, it's more like a bug that you can get at it when you pick up lava nails. The precache is fixed, but things are not all well yet, don't report bugs with the lava nails yet, it's just not done.

The even worse news is that half the weapon code needs changing to make lava nails work and the right ammo, it's a matter of replacing ammo_shells with ammo_shells1 everywhere(and so on for the other ammo), then adding another function in several key places, so a big job. Once that's done the upper ammo totals with be right and the other lava ammo bugs will be fixed. Not today though...

There shouldn't be a model for the chainsaw on the ground, it replaces the axe by design. And I get shell casings from the chaingun as normal, so if you've got any more info about why that's happening it you it would be handy. You aren't testing it in darkplaces are you? 
Another Bug 
If I open shootable doors with chainsaw the half of the way it opens with the speed I set in the 'speed' field and the after that it immediately drops into open position.

haven't checked the latest progs.dat yet, downloading 
 
There shouldn't be a model for the chainsaw on the ground, it replaces the axe by design. And I get shell casings from the chaingun as normal, so if you've got any more info about why that's happening it you it would be handy. You aren't testing it in darkplaces are you?

The chainsaw doesn't appear at all... You just appear to be holding nothing. I am using DP, but I woulldn't know what sort of errors I'm looking for...

@PuLSaR: I'd be looking to test monsters next, because there's currently nothing else to be tested on teh weapons. I can't map for shit, otherwise I'd just add the monsters to a basic rooom and test that. I can also test maps for bugs and stuff if you think it might be useful... 
Uhm 
And I get shell casings from the chaingun as normal

shell casings coming out of chainsaws isn't normal. 
Chaingun 
 
Lardarse 
Well I actually don't want to fullvis my map so far. If you want I may sent you fastvised version, but if you need just to test monsters I have a testmap with mothing but 6 brushes and monsters/ammo. 
Missing Models 
It sounds like you're missing all of the custom models for the game, do you have the zip file that FC posted long ago with all the models in it? The releases I've made are intended to be patches for that, not replacements. When DP can't find a model, rather than spit out a console error it replaces it with a default placeholder, which looks like a multicoloured diamond thing. I haven't done anything with bmodels yet, so I'll take a look at that door thing and the func_train while I'm at it. My connection is down though, so I might not be able to upload a patch today. 
And Again 
http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/ajd70/progs-14-10-05.zip
Here we go, fixes: Ammo counts now work, and the lava nails are in. Cycling forward is fixed, although multi-rockets might still break it. I'll do backwards once the weapons list is locked. The problem with non mastered/triggered func_trains is sorted. A few other cosmetic changes like reducing the number of idle noises from the chainsaw. Haven't been able to reproduce the chainsaw door bug yet, so it's still at large.

The new ammo code is the thing most likely to cause problems, if you notice at any time that the ammo on the top doesn't update correctly, let me know what you did so I can fix it. Lava nails should also be considered fully featured, so let me know about any bugs encountered.

If I've got this right, this is the list of known things that still need doing:
Fix chainsaw door bug.
Add teleporter flag.
Improve moster reaction time when waking up.
Add multirockets and exploding shells?
Backwards weapon cycling.
Anything else? 
Arcane_v0-9.zip As Seen In #359 
I think that backward weapon cycling has to be a priority now, if only so I don't have to listen to that bloody chainsaw starting up every time...

Forward cycling is fine, and it completely ignores the possibility of MR weapons. Ammo counts change correctly as well.

I have noticed a few issues with the chaingun, though. The weapon spins so fast that it looks to be convulsing when I hold down the trigger (I guess because of DP's model interpolation). The weapon is also far too powerful. It drops knights with 1 hit, and gibs eels with 1 hit as well. Also, it uses 2 ammo per shot, for some strange reason.

I am wondering if you are going to want reskinned lava guns, because they don't need those stupid warning arrows on... 
I Found The Source Code That FC Posted As Well... 
Now I understand why the Chaingun is so sick...

Preach, with your permission, I'd like to re-write the code for the chaingun to be less evil, less messy, and easier to balance once we get to that stage. If you've made updates to w_chaingun.qc, then I'd prefer to work from your copy. 
...and this here is the dangerous end... 
Be My Guest 
Only things I've changed in w_chaingun.qc are reducing the frequency of gibs spawned so it doesn't cause packet overloads when you unload on a zombie, and since the whole thing is a mess anyway, it might not be necessary once it's done. So yeah, just work from the FC version and that'll be fine. 
You Reduced Gibs? 
blasphemy! :o 
Gib Cuts 
The chaingun was producing three gibs per shot, it just wasn't feasible. Most things died fast enough for it not to matter, but zombies you can blast a lot of chunks out of before they die. One thing I thought of which might be important for rewriting the chaingun; quake doesn't like things that occur faster than every 0.1 seconds. You can do it, and it'll work a lot of the time, but it runs the risk of being very framerate dependent. The quake engine will ensure that there are at least 10 frames per second of game time, and will effectivly slow down the game clock if the computer can't keep up. There might be small fluctuations in the rate of firing depending on how the frames line up with the times, but you should always get 10 nails fired between time and time + 1.

If you do something with a shorter delay, say 0.05 seconds, a person who's only getting 10fps would only get 10 shots per second when they should get 20. This might explain why the chaingun fires rounds 2 at a time and then does two sets of damage in a burst, besides the slight benefits to the network updates gained by doing this. So it's something to bear in mind if you rewrite it. Perhaps the best solution if you want such a high rate of fire would be to check frametime each time it fires - if the framerate is below 20 fps, fire two shots and set the delay to 0.1, otherwise set it to 0.05. Bit more work though.

The other thing about the chaingun and model interpolation is that it only uses two frames, which for non model interpolation suffices to give the illusion of a rotating barrel. With modern engines it'll be obvious it's rocking back and forth, might be worth fixing that. I've got a good idea about how I'd go about this so it would look smooth on interpolating engines, but still look like it rotates in older engines, so I'll put it into the rewritten chaingun once it's done.

Positive news - fixed the door bug, and I've put in spawning by a spawnflag - 64 makes monsters teleport when triggered, and 128 makes them teleport in the same way, but silently, for doing reinforcments that have "moved into place". Can't upload it yet though, connection issues. Do people want multirockets? I never found them that handy myself, but the code is half there if people so desire. 
I Have An Excuse, Nitin 
idiocy, yeah, that's it. 
Agreed 
You Reduced Gibs?

blasphemy! :o


That is why I went ahead and built the gyro physics.qc patch into my basic Quake. The gibs are extra bouncy; the next step will be to get them to flop around and shake like jello. 
Replying To #468 
One thing I thought of which might be important for rewriting the chaingun; quake doesn't like things that occur faster than every 0.1 seconds.

Thought of that. It's averaging 20 for me when I test it.

The chaingun was producing three gibs per shot, it just wasn't feasible. Most things died fast enough for it not to matter, but zombies you can blast a lot of chunks out of before they die.

At 60 entities per second, I doubt even Darkplaces would be able to cope...

Perhaps the best solution if you want such a high rate of fire would be to check frametime each time it fires - if the framerate is below 20 fps, fire two shots and set the delay to 0.1, otherwise set it to 0.05. Bit more work though.

It's much easier and more consistent to fire 2 (or more) bullets every 0.1s so that's what I have planned...

The other thing about the chaingun and model interpolation is that it only uses two frames... I've got a good idea about how I'd go about this so it would look smooth on interpolating engines, but still look like it rotates in older engines, so I'll put it into the rewritten chaingun once it's done.

I noticed that as well. It's a shame really, because it's an otherwise nice model. If you're planning what I think you're planning, then it won't work, because there are other parts of the weapon visible, not just the barrels. I think that a model like the SNG would look best, but we don't simply want a reskinned model.

Do people want multirockets? I never found them that handy myself, but the code is half there if people so desire.

I will be able to comment on their usefulness a bit more after I actually complete DoE, but my early thoughts are that cluster bombs would be very useful (and more useful if they split up after hitting a monster). Multi rockets would probably be less useful, although they can clear rooms out very nicely. So yes, i want to see them. However, I think we need to limit the ammo on these. Maybe perhaps to 3/6 per box and maximum carrying of 50 ?

One last thought about the chaingun before I end this long post: Do people think that the knockback is too much? 
Preach 
I've finished re-writing the chaingun, all I have to do is send it to you. I hope you got my previous e-mail. 
E-mail 
Haven't been able to e-mail for a few day previously, but I've just checked them now and got the last message about the .meat field. So if you send it over today, I should be able to get it before the connection dies again. 
Np 
Sending now.

Btw: if you want a Gmail account, I can give you an invite... 
Less Talk 
More screenies 
 
I'd prefer more talk, more screenies, more things to test, more of everything! These times where there's nothing that I can do to contribute to this project are making me think about everything else too much... 
Patch Day 
http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/ajd70/progs-14-10-05.zip

Contained herein: The new improved chaingun code, thanks lardarse! Also, teleporting monsters, flag 64 for teleport when triggered, flag 128 for silent teleport. The troglodyte now no longer locks up when it casts the large explosion. Doors can now be opened by the chainsaw without jumping around. Maybe a few other fixes, I'm not sure.

So still to come is the enhanced chaingun animation and the multirockets. Maybe by Sunday... 
Re: #475 
Hey, I just released a Q1SP. Thought that'd keep you people quiet for a while :) 
Wrong Link, Preach... 
http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/ajd70/progs-19-10-05.zip

or just go to http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/ajd70/ and select the file with the latest date. 
Well 
If people release things that require stuff I don't have it doesn't tend to keep me happy =/ More screenies! 
Preach 
another little buggy: i have a secret which is triggered by the the armor itself (it targets trigger_secret), I get the message and secret sound but the number of secrets I found doesn't change. It works in normal quake.

btw Tronyn: it's really a time to update the site with more info and screenies and maybe something more. 
Wtf? 
how fucked up is the source code that basic features like secret counting don't work? 
Metlslime 
normal trigger_secrets work as they should, while one secret with 'targetname' don't. I also wonder why. 
Chaingun Changes: 
The main changes are:

- Instead of using 2 ammo per shot, it uses 2-4 ammo per shot, but the shots are now a consistent 0.1 seconds apart, instead of an inconsistent 0.05 seconds.

- Damage was reduced from 40 per bullet to 20ish. but I nerfed it too much, so it's back up to 25ish.

- FC had some weird MultiDamage hack in teh code (as used in the shotgun code) which I removed to make the code be handed haster, and also because the gun is supposed to be firing the bullets 1 at a time.

- Recoil has been recuded by about 30%, and recoil in the vertical direcion is significantly reduced. I don't think that this gun should be non-damaging RJ replacement weapon...

Other than that. it's just cleanup. I'm sending an updated version to Preach in a moment, because I nerfed it a bit too much, and also because it's not behaving exactly as expected. But I'm happy with it.

Onto the bugs I've noticed. The slug ammo no longer decreases when the chaingun is firing. This is likely to be because of a change that Preach made to make it work properly in the first place that I didn't know about. Also, it doesn't display when you are holding the gold or silver key.

I think that's everything... 
Oops 
I kinda nerfed recoil but 60% instead of the desired 25% so I'm fixing that as well.

metlslime: lol 
Chaingun Revisited 
I had to make a few changes to the chaingun to make it compile, and while I was at it I fixed the ammo, so the patch released today has chaingun working at full capacity. I'll try and merge the file you send me so all the changes come through without breaking things.

metlslime - quite a few things have been broken because a lot of the code was rewritten before I got it. About half of the monsters use some extra functions and fields to reduce the amount of duplication within the monster code. To my mind it's kinda a wierd thing to do, it reduces the progs size, but at the expense of adding fields that take up just as much memory if not more. But the baron monsters would have to be completely rewritten from scratch to change that, so I'm inclined to fix the code that's there rather than scrap it all.

On the other hand, ths secret issue could just be a small conflict oweing to the addition of the master field. That's caused problems in the past.

Key icons I was aware of, but I thought I'd consult about them first. The code now offers many additional keys, copper, bone, things like that. So one solution I was considering was to get rid of all the power up icons(to my mind they're not that useful) and use those slots for icons for the remaining keys. Otherwise I could make it so just silver/gold keys get icons like before, but it's not very consistent. Also, with all those keys, things might get confusing - would having the key icon blink until you got it be helpful or distracting? The trigger to start the blinknig would be trying a door that needed a key and getting the "you require the obsidian key" message. I'm kinda leaning away from it now I've though about it, but I'll put it out there anyway. Any thoughts? 
Wow 
why on earth would you need that many keys? you'll need to code a keychain soon.


wow, that was terrible. o.o 
 
I hereby remove necros from the earth.
You're welcome. 
Use A Proper Fucking Compiler :-P 
Part of the problem with making it compile was probably that you're using frikqcc to compile it, and I'm used to using fteqcc. I think I have everything sorted out in the version that I will send you tonight...

Key icon blinking would be distracting. I know that there are now 7 keys available, and bar engine changes, it's going to be tricky to display them all. I would be inclined to do it, so that you display 1 of the key icons if you have at least 1 key, and display bth of them if you have more than 1. Then, use an impulse to (centre)print the keys that are being held.

Speaking of powerups, how many will this project have? I assume that there will still be the quad, the pent, and the ring, but what else? 
Black Magic 
I have a problem. It looks like spawflag64 teleporter has a bug - it crashes the map when I try to spawn an orge. I get a message:

EDICT 262:
modelindex 188.0
absmin '2079.0 -737.0 -1.0'
absmax '2145.0 -671.0 89.0'
movetype 4.0
solid 3.0
origin '2112.0 -704.0 24.0'
classname monster_ogre
model progs/ogre.mdl
frame 1.0
mins '-32.0 -32.0 -24.0'
maxs ' 32.0 32.0 64.0'
size ' 64.0 64.0 88.0'
use monster_use()
health 200.0
takedamage 2.0
view_ofs ' 0.0 0.0 25.0'
flags 544.0
waterlevel -1.0
watertype -1.0
yaw_speed 20.0
spawnflags 128.0
targetname door4t
noise ogre/ogwake.wav
th_stand ogre_stand1()
th_walk ogre_walk1()
th_run ogre_run1()
th_missile ogre_nail1()
th_melee ogre_melee()
th_pain ogre_pain()
th_die ogre_die()
mdl progs/ogre.mdl
pausetime 100000000.0
hmodel progs/h_ogre.mdl
Host_Error: PR_ExecuteProgram: NULL function


And I haven't checked it enough but it seems like func_wall's invisible mode (spawnflag 1 doesn't work properly).

Also I feel like this mode has really a deal with black magic: something strange happens to my editor, it goes crazy. Objects' properties change somehow without my help, entities turn from one to another... err I hope that's just a bug that won't return after I restart my editor. But if not..
Preach are you sure you didn't use voodoo or something working with your progs.dat? 
 
And I had a crash saving the game the other day, but I haven't tried to repeat it since. Can anyone else look into this? 
Hot Off The Presses And Right On Time 
http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/ajd70/progs-20-10-05.zip

V2 of the chaingun is in, the code pretty much worked straight off, which is good. I also altered the model and the animation frame code so it works much better with interpolation, while maintaining the same good behaviour on normal engines. There's even a cooldown animation when you stop firing!

The teleporter crash is fixed, I thought I'd got it once before, but now I've got it figured out much better. I blame all the rewrites, with the normal ID code it's twice as easy to impliment the teleporting. Speaking of rewrites:
/*==================
T_SECRET: Secret Trigger

This file's an experiment to see if it's possible to split
the trigger_secret's code from the trigger_multiple.
====================*/

Yeah, I'd not seen that before, so now the secret trigger is fixed if you pick up an item that targets one.

I don't get what you're saying about the func_wall though. In the original ID code there's no spawnflag 1 behaviour written, and the code hasn't changed here. If it's a feature you need tell me what it's meant to do and I'll add it.

And I can't do anything about the editor or saving problems, both of those are out of my hands. Ah well, G'night all. 
Well 
from FC manual to this progs.dat:
The following brush entities have extra functionality added as described below.

3.3.1. func_wall

The following spawnflags have been added.

1: "Invisible": The brush model for the func_wall will not be drawn.
2: "Toggle": The func_wall can be toggled "on" (drawn and blocking) and "off" (not drawn and non-blocking). When used in conjunction with the "Invisible" flag, one can have something like a forcefield.


Donloading latest patch... 
Don't Worry, I'm Being Punished 
Whoever invented Morrowind's scripting language will surely burn in hell. 
Guns Are Good, Now 
Now I want to see some maps to test... 
The Day Today 
http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/ajd70/progs-21-10-05.zip

Stuff:
*Func_wall now has those spawnflags
*Cycling weapons backwards added
*Enforcers will now actually fire at you
*Big optimisation on the AI overhead - essentially when monsters weren't attacking they'd call walkmonster_start_go every frame, which would then call the stand/walk think function, along with resetting all the default settings in walkmonster_start_go needlessly. This has been corrected, now monsters think their function directly after the first walkmonster_start_go. Funnily enough, this would have fixed the teleporter crash from yesterday as well...go figure. I think it's also fixed a rare AI bug where monsters who were mad at other monsters would become trapped in a run cycle and never attack, but since it's hard to replicate I'm not sure of this. 
Preach, 
It sounds like a heroic effort.

Fat Controler -- come on back to Quake if Morrowwind is wigging you out. The new Nehahra when it is released will certainly give you some interesting things to play with. 
Pulsar, Preach, Lardarse 
you guys have mail 
Preach 
Some more bugs:

Spawflag64 somehow doesn't work for spawning custom monsters (at least monster_sorceror/alcolyte/warlock). I didn't check the others, but these ones definately don't want to teleport. They even don't disappear in the beginning.
Also scrags behave themself strange after spawning. They don't just hang where they were spawned, they begin to move in strange directions. I'll dig more about it sooner.

And invisible func_wall doesn't work for me even now. 
Post #500 
oh Preach

I've just found that i used not your latest patch. Func_wall works as it should. Thanks.

But:
The game now crashes again when i try to spawn fiends and scrags (and maybe orges) with the similar message. Tho everything worked fine it your previous patch.
Magi still don't spawn.

message:
EDICT 272:
modelindex 213.0
absmin '1535.0 -305.0 255.0'
absmax '1601.0 -239.0 345.0'
movetype 4.0
solid 3.0
origin '1568.0 -272.0 280.0'
angles ' 0.0 25.0 0.0'
classname monster_demon1
model progs/demon.mdl
frame 1.0
mins '-32.0 -32.0 -24.0'
maxs ' 32.0 32.0 64.0'
size ' 64.0 64.0 88.0'
use monster_use()
health 300.0
takedamage 2.0
view_ofs ' 0.0 0.0 25.0'
flags 544.0
waterlevel -1.0
watertype -1.0
ideal_yaw 225.0
yaw_speed 20.0
goalentity entity 274
spawnflags 65.0
target cou_trm_3
targetname mon_tel_trap_1_3
noise demon/sight2.wav
th_stand demon_stand()
th_walk demon1_walk1()
th_run demon_run()
th_missile demon1_jump1()
th_melee Demon_MeleeAttack()
th_pain demon1_pain()
th_die demon_die()
mdl progs/demon.mdl
pausetime 100000000.0
movetarget entity 274
hmodel progs/h_demon.mdl
Host_Error: PR_ExecuteProgram: NULL function
 
Ya Bastard 
I wanted post 500 
Internet Outages 
Can't connect my comp to the internet again, patch forthcoming as soon as it does(and I get this backlog of maths work done...)Mages didn't have the teleporting permitting code in, they do now. As for scrags, I've spawned them fine with the current patch, maybe the fix for ogres broke fiends. I'll look into it. 
 
Preach are you still alive? 
I'm Here 
Finally got the connection back today, so here's the patch before it breaks again.
http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/ajd70/progs-27-10-05.zip
Fixes teleporting monsters, although I still don't see what's wrong with scrags, unless you're trying to make them patrol after they teleport in. Not sure how well that will work if you do. If you really need it, I'll look for a fix.

Also a few balance tweaks, tidied up the chaingun animations some more, key icons now work(or did they last patch?). Putting icons for the other keys in would take a rewrite of how the powerups are done, but since nobody seems to need the feature it's probably not worth investing time in. Ok, have fun! 
Preach 
Who of these guys is the weakest: Acolytes, Sorcerors and Warlocks?

Biw is it possible to make something like "magic" visual effect? I mean kinda fluids in the air, permanent and temporary. For example I want to make the effect of magic crated bridge. When player presses a button the bridge moves from the space outside of the map to where it should be (with speed 1000), but plater doesn't see it. Then player teleports back (after a few seconds) and sees the bridge. I want this bridge to be covered with that 'magic' effect for 5-7 seconds.
Or another example. There's a place of rituals in my map. When player enters that room he sees that place surronded by mages (they are summoning someone there). There should appear that magic effect. Then player kills all those mages, but ritual as already made. Magic effect stays after their death. And after a few seconds a big bad monster spawns in that place.

Is it possible to make something like that? I remember forcefields in base maps. Maybe it could looks something like that but with different color and not plain. 
 
dunno what "fluids in the air" means and "magic" isn't very descriptive XD, but if you want, you can use the hip code that makes particles and simply make those flash for a bit. 
Tronyn 
Did you recieve my emails? The only I replied you recently and the one I sent you a few weeks ago to your netgames address. 
 
only=one 
Through The Looking Glass 
Even though my connection is technically broken, I've found a way round that to upload today.
http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/ajd70/progs-30-10-05.zip
Two changes. One is to do with acolytes and warlocks. The hierachy of mages is meant to go acolytes < sorceror < warlock. Unfortunatly a bug/feature meant all acolytes were being turned into warlocks anyway. Been fixed now, but it means monster_mage now defaults to acolyte rather than warlock.

The other change is a quickly hacked together entity you might find handy for that magic effect. It's called misc_magic, and it spawns the effect from the troglodyte magic. Parameters are:
count - duration in 10ths of a second
weapon - colour of the particles
lip - radius of the circle
Just target it to set it off. I dunno if it'll actually do what you're after, but on the plus side it was only 10 lines of code. 
 
For those of you who don't know, these new mages can use any weapon their underlings can. You can set the rank of a monster_mage with a count between 0 and the default of 2, or use monster_acolyte, monster_sorceror and monster_warlock entities.,/q>

count should default to 0, yes? 
Exactly 
Default for count is 0, but there was a lump of code that changed count to 2 any time it was 0 or greater than 2. presumably so that when you made a default monster_mage it became a monster_warlock. Which is well intentioned in itself, but the problem is monster_acolyte just calls sets it's own count to 0, then calls monster_mage, so you get in a mess. Only reason I mentioned it was if people had used a monster_mage already, expecting it to default to monster_warlock as it had been so far, they'd need to alter it to make it the correct level. 
Bump! 
Given the essentially infinite number of these entities you can use and the consequences of them firing at targets, any start/hub map type functionality can be implemented. You could even have the start map fill with monsters once the rest of the maps have been completed.
(From Quoth mapping tutorial, about info_endgate and info_mapgate)

Wasn't it our plan to have the stsrt map invaded by monsters once the other maps had been done? Do we still want to do this? If so, is there any chance that we can co-ordinate with Necros and Kell to have this as a feature? 
Monsters In The Start 
If it's needed, it'd probably be easiest to add it directly. The ammount of rewritten code in the arcane progs means merging things from other mods is often just as involved as writing them from scratch. I'd probably just go with adding another spawnflag like the teleport flags, which removes the monster if a value isn't set, and a corresponding option to set that value on trigger_changelevel. Seems easier, since it's just a single monsters on/monsters off situation. 
Yes 
Monsters in the start map is basically what I wanted.

The thing is though, we could just use two different BSPS - as the maps will be played in a linear order, the final map could just link back to a different version of the start, containing monsters etc. 
Linear Order? 
That's not how I imagined this to go...

My idea was that you have a start map which is a hub to 3 arcane-themed maps. Once you have done those, a door opens to a more evil area that willl lead back to the variant base map.

Of course, you are the project leader, so it's your call... 
Well 
Originally, Fat Controller wanted the start map as a sort of a "hub" to several other maps.

But lately Pulsar suggested having the maps in a linear order, which I now think might be better. We are kind of thinking of having a thematic progression in the maps, which would make more sense if they were in a set order.

But it's not set in stone.

Btw if I don't have a beta of my first map ready by December then someone shoot me. 
Oh, And 
if I haven't updated the project's web site within a week then give me the same treatment. 
Which Weapon? [nt] 
 
An Uninformed Opinion 
make it have some kind of structure, not just a hub where you can do maps in random order and start with shotty in each. That isn't so great imo. 
I'm Taken Away 
I have to leave tomorrow. Not to leave the project but leave my home and pc until february.

My knave map is about 1-2 weeks to be finished (beta) but I was called today and told that I must go tomorrow. In fact I should have left in august-september but (fortunally for this project, unfortunatelly for me) I'm leaving only now.

I'll come back soon and finish my map and make a new one. I hope Tronyn will finish something when I return :)

See ya, guys. 
 
make it have some kind of structure, not just a hub where you can do maps in random order and start with shotty in each. That isn't so great imo.
Who said anything about resetting the weapons between the maps ???

PuLSaR: Good luck, whatever it is you have to do... 
Well 
have luck balancing combat if you don't know what weapons the player'll have. 
Tronyn Et Al, Re Post 516 
IMHO:
linear order > hub.

bye! 
Fair Enough... 
So we have a start map, 3 arcane maps, an evil map, and a final map where your library gets invaded. Sounds good... 
Source For Baron 
Hello everybody can somebody sen me into mail email rpature�s baron qc code please.My mail is testtesttest@seznam.cz
Please help me!!!! 
Tronyn 
Your time is up...

Btw if I don't have a beta of my first map ready by December then someone shoot me. ... Oh, And if I haven't updated the project's web site within a week then give me the same treatment.

I'm coming for you with my chaingun... 
Oh Shit 
It's up! It's up!

as usual, http://www.planetquake.com/tronyn/arcane

Main thing on the page is that I'm looking for *one more mapper.*

My beta will be ready in december; maybe two beta maps, actually.

Then I can start building the library/cathedral/mansion/university or whatever setting it is on earth. 
 
... and the humorously named Lardarse ...

That's one way of looking at it... 
Tronyn 
That header graphic makes the page wider than 1024. 
Lol 
well the entire page is shit, so I think I'll keep it that way on principle :) 
Tronyn 
FYI

There are broken links in the Development, Textures and Prefabs page. They are:

- Contract Revoked Textures and Others link
- Prefabs related link

;) 
Tronyn 
is there any progress with this project?
I'm back with pc, but I'm in another city right now and i don't have the source of my map atm.

but i'm ready for betatesting or anything so feel free to e-mail me

btw i'm i'm drunk right now because i've past my last exam 
Welcome Back! 
And grats on finishing your exams. Go enjoy getting being drunk :-)

I'll send an e-mail out to Tronyn and Preach to see if they still remember this project. I think the coding side is done, it's the mapping that needs doing :-/ 
My Email 
is now djg164@mail.usask.ca
in case either of you is still using my old one
expect an email frome me soon also
I'm about to start exams too, so the drunkenness for me is coming in a couple weeks, heh 
Well, That's 3 Of Us... 
Where's Preach?

And more importantly, Tronyn...

My beta will be ready in december; maybe two beta maps, actually.

Where the fuck are your map betas? 
I'm Here... 
However, next term I have a ton of exams to revise for. So if there's anything that urgently needs coding it'd be best if you said in the next two weeks or so. 
Well 
I used aguire's engine for testing my non-fullvised map and I missed the fact that I got over the edicts limit. I think corpse revomal should be employed to these progs.dat 
TRONYN 
Are yoU stiLl aLivE? 
 
his drunkenness lasted longer than expected 
Bump 
hows the arcane project going fellas? i feel like having a game :) i need my annual quake-fix 
Arcane 
project is going fine. slow but fine. 
Going Fine? 
Then send me something to test... 
Ok 
Just an update to explain what's going on. I'm in graduate school right now and just got my PC working again a few weeks ago, I had to replace the video card, which sucked. I had hoped to finish and release _something_ in August, but the month just flew by with me being in a few different cities and then moving. September also flew with getting into school and starting work marking papers and etc. Anyway, I'm set up again.

I have a beta of map 1, but I want to try out a storm effect in it. I did this a long time ago in my map Storm Dungeon, but that was so long ago (5 years or more) that I can't remember exactly how I did it, and the example Storm map that I used (on the Forge) doesn't seem to be there anymore. Does anyone have that map, or know how to do this?

I just need to fix that up and fullvis it. Gameplay is really hard, and using the chaingun is fun. 
Storm Effect 
By that, do you mean the light levels occasionally flickering like lightning flashes? Because that can be done relatively easily with a bit of custom code. The one technical snag you may encounter is if you want light cast from skybrushes( _sunlight etc) to flicker - kinda natural desire when you think about it. The problem is that sky cast light is always lightstyle 0, so you have to flicker all lights that don't have a style set.

The simple workaround is to define a new style with the same light level as style 0, and then use that style for any indoor lights that you don't want to flicker. You can then make style 0 change light levels at random with some code in StartFrame. The code should also be opt-in based on some worldspawn key so that all the id maps etc. don't start flickering indoors. 
Kind Of Like That 
all I want is a bunch of randomly triggered lights, with thunder either simultaneously or following shortly afterwards.

I'm not using skylight in this map. Although I usually do use skylight, and like the effect greatly, this is a mostly indoor map. I've just placed really bright point lights inside all the windows. 
Well 
I'm still alive too. I spent previous 3 years moving from one city to another every 2-3 months and had no permanent internet access. And yesterday I finally returned back home. So everything's fine. I have a third beta of my map almost ready. 
Tronyn 
You could try a lightstyle applied to a local minlight - standard point light with delay 4 (aguirRe's light tool). Which makes it without falloff.

For the custom flicker I'm not sure if any of the basic ones would look any good for occassional lightning, so you might need a progs change for that, since you'd want it to be dark / off 95% of the time.

It was a cool effect in Storm Dungeon, even though the Shambler Baron was a pain in the nuts. 
Hmm 
Is there a code entity that randomly triggers its target keys? I'm pretty sure that's how it was done in Hipnotic. It could just toggle the lights on and off.

Also, Preach I noticed while playtesting that in the progs there's an occasional bug with projectiles, where they get "stuck" at a stationary point and don't explode. Have you seen this, or have any idea what causes it? 
Hmm 
Can't say I've encountered that, no. E-mail me the details and I'll look into it, especially helpful if you can save a game with the bug reproduced and send it to me. I'll fix that and add the lightning code at the same time. 
Still Here And Available For Testing 
That soudns like a bug I'd only see when playing online... 
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