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Quake 1 Custom Monsters
since there's been some discussion of custom monsters, both old and new, I thought I'd share these ideas I've had pulsing in my cerebelum for some time. Depending on my current mapping projects, I'd like to try modelling these sometime in the near future, but I'll pitch the design briefs here and let you foul creatures leer at them...
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Quake 1 Skinning 
May I share with you a technique I discovered to get perfect skin mapping with Quake 1 models.

- First, make the model without worrying about skinmapping at this stage. When the mesh is finished, save a copy of the .mdl as an .md2 in QME.

- Import the .md2 into NST (Npherno's Skin Tool) for Q2, and create a new skinmap. As an example, here's a new skinmap for the Quake 1 knight I did:

http://photopile.com/photos/sloochyslooch/quakemisc/113135.gif

If your model already has a skin (like the Q1 knight), you can do a "retrofit" to the new skinmap, like this:

http://photopile.com/photos/sloochyslooch/quakemisc/113136.jpg

This can act as a guide as you paint over it to increase the skin resolution. I've started painting over the knight skin, as you can see, at 512x512 res, but I would reduce the skin to a 256x256 before using ingame:

http://photopile.com/photos/sloochyslooch/quakemisc/113137.jpg

- Finally, you need to convert your fully skinmapped .md2 model back into an .mdl to use in Quake 1. So far, QuArK 5 is the only tool I believe lets you do this conversion (qme does mdl->md2, but not vice versa, it seems).

I hope this has been helpful. 
Very Useful Info Kinn 
and the skin is coming on good as well. 
Kinn: 
Nice technique, if it works. (I have doubts about whether md2-style UV mapping will actually work in the mdl format.) Please post a screenshot of the finished model in quake, when you get a chance. I'd like to see it. 
Ok 
making more headway. got the drop stuff worked out, so that leaves me with the lightning attack.

i wanted opinions on this one... should it be a no-evasion-besides-cover lightning attack, like the shambler, or a lightning attack that tracks a little behind the player, so if you are moving/strafing, you can avoid some of the damage like i did with the brown shamblers in nesp06 and 09? 
 
little behind. I hate Shambler's lightning. 
Uv's, Quark, And Lightning Arcs 
Yeah, the MD2 UV mapping can be done in quake, but you have to alter the model, so that seperated portions on the skin are seperate on the mode. Now, I've been spending hours doing this by hand, but it turns out that quark 5 does do this correctly and automatically, which is very nice to know : - ).

Also necros, you might wanna look at this inside3D thread when you're coding the lightning.
http://forums.inside3d.com/showflat.pl?Board=Inside3D&Number=17770&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5
It's not about whether the lightning is accurate or not(I agree with scampie though), but it is a rather nice visual effect, and I think it's quite portable too. 
Hey 
While you guys are at it, how about making a couple more base set monsters, a runic set of monsters, and another zombie guy. I would appreciate it. Thx. 
Base Monsters 
Since base maps are much more popular than, well, you'd expect from the four maps in the original quake, I always reckoned that they could do with some variety. But the problem is trying to come up with something that's not just a grunt with a different weapon, as those are best done with a reskinned grunt. Also it shouldn;t be too Quake2-ish, as quake doesn't really go in for cybernetic stuff.
The only possible I had was to rip off the arco-flagellant:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/gamers_web1/damien.gif
as it's kinda like the grunts(chemically enhanced, and has a pacifier helm that sedates it until it's triggered, when the helm is lifted the thing goes bezerk). It'd be a melee creature for those base levels, which would make a change(fiend cameos excepted). Some kind of flying thing would be nice too, any ideas? 
I Have Been Fiddling With Reskinning 
The zombie as a cybernetic, symbiotic looking creature that rises from the green sewage but results so far are butt ugly as I haven't had the time lately to develop it further. Maybe that idea would be an easy one for someone to implement if they are looking for a base creature addition without the time factor of modeling something from scratch. 
Actually... 
a zombie that crawled around on the ground would be nice variety. it's attacks would be the same.. 
Base Monsters 
Well you could rip off Doom 3 and have a mechanical spider-head type monster. Then the player could put headless torso things around the stage, and the spider-heads would go them, attach themselves to it and use it as vehicle. You can't kill the torso itself, but if you damage it enough the spider-head will fall from it and won't be able to use it for a while. The only way to kill it is to shoot the spider-head while its not attached to a torso, but that brings about the problem of torsos falling into walls and not being useable, etc. If I come up with any more ideas I'll post em. 
Player = Mapmaker 
 
Hmmm 
Id ripping off Rodriguez who in turn ripped off (but at least credited) Heinlein who was probably visually inspired by Rider
who in turn was influenced by Shelly's Queen Maub.

Very Interesting, at least to me. 
Monsters 
for a flying base monster... I can't find a pic online but a nursebot-type thing that shoots hypodermic needles at you (a la bioforge) would be entertaining. :)

and.. who remembers those spider enemies with the death knight attack and scrag sounds? 
 
Make hipnotic's roboscorpion float. It'd be perfect, I'm sure Daz will agree.

<D4Z> OMG! A scorpion that hovers without flapping!!!!!!!11 
ROFL 
Yes that would be awesome, ph43r it, for it hovars without flapping!!!!!!11 
Give The Fish 
death ray eyes, water tanks and a Di Vinci like propeller to float around the air -- they would be the baddest Mothas in the game.

Shub: "I grow weary of your insolence Quake Guy! Send in the fishes!" 
Update On The Gaunt... 
again, wanted some opinions...

currently, this is what i have done...

lightning attack:
this attack aims similar to the way a soldier aims it's shotgun. if you are moving, the shot will be slightly behind you and if you don't, you'll be hit dead on.
there is a small difference though: it doesn't miss as bad as the soldier, so sometimes you will be hit even if you are strafing (i'd say about 50% of the time) this is speed dependant, so if you're bunny hoping and got a lot of speed you probably won't get hit at all.
also, the damage given is completly dependant on where the gaunt hits you. (there aren't any headshots or anything stupid like that though, don't worry. :P) if you stand still, the gaunt will hit you dead on and deal about 9 damage. if you are strafing, and suffer only a glancing shot you'll receive maybe about 6 or so damage. (that's from an individual lightning shot btw...)

grabbing the player:
the gaunt will only go for a grab if:
-it has been at least 5 seconds since it last released the player
-it has been at least 5 seconds since it last tried to grab the player and failed

after grabbing the player, the gaunt heads for a gaunt_corner and starts following the route. if it passes over a info_gauntdrop (ie: around a pit of slime) it will let go of the player. (this also counts towards the 5 second delay before grabbing again)
while being held, the player receives between 1 and 3 damage every second or so.

ps, i haven't updated the monster i have on the net yet.

also, how's the model coming along, Kell? 
Crap, Forgot To Add: 
The lightning attack will only be attempted if the player is furthur than 384 units away from the monster, otherwise, it charges you and tries to grab you. 
The Problem With Kell's Gaunt. 
It makes too much sense:

It has a fairly normal amount of limbs.

It has wings to support it flying.

It's more anatomically correct than the average Quake monster.

And that, I think, isn't not in the spirit of Quake monsters. They (and I mean the true monsters, not abhumans) usually don't make sense. They have no eyes, or spikes instead, 3 legs so walking is a strange affair, they fly without any means of support, or bounce without any obvious mechanism. That strangeness is an inherent part of what makes them Quakey, rather than just another demon / ghoul / standard fantasy monster.

Just meh �2 (yes my opinion is more expensive than most :P). 
Hey Who Asked For It?! 
'Just meh �2 (yes my opinion is more expensive than most :P).'

Oh yeah, that's right, I did. About a month ago and it is about damn time! 
Leather Wings Enfold Me 
--------------------------------------------
Gaunt Update, 18th April 2004
--------------------------------------------

jpg: http://kell.vondur.net/monsters/gaunt/gaunt-skinned-turn.jpg

The skin is done, the model is almost complete. There's just a couple of animations I want to add.

The main thing that I don't know how to do is get the model to work in GL. I know it needs to be 'meshed' or something, and there are .ms2 files in the various glquake folders that correspond to the models. I'm sort of hoping that the engine can do this itself, but I really haven't a clue about it. Any info appreciated.

The animations so far, in the order stored in the .mdl file:

hover
magic
swoop
drop
paina
painb
deatha
deathb

Animations to be added:

perch
launch
painc

necros, regarding the animations:
Both the death anims take a few frames for the model to rise above the ground plane: deatha is above the ground in frames 6 -> 8, deathb is above the ground in frames 5 -> 8 This is important because the gaunt will drop from its location when killed, so I had to get the model above its centerpoint before it hits the ground, otherwise large portions of the model might sink into the floor then reappear o_O
I already mentioned in monster_gaunt.txt that the gaunt should remain airborne for a time when killed anyway, because it may be carrying the player when it dies and a short delay will open a gap between the falling player and the falling gaunt. Based on the model anims as they are, I suggest a delay of 1.0 seconds. I have no idea if this is actually something you can effect with the monster's qc, but it should be noted. You have the model - experiment and see what you get :)

Note also that I flipped the two halves of the hover anim. It's 10 frames long, 5 frames for each wingbeat. For one half, the tail remains dangling down. For the other half, the tail 'lashes disquietingly' ( the verts for the wingbeats are essentially identical for the two halves ). I swapped the halves so the tail lashes during frames 1 -> 5 instead of 6 -> 10. This is to coincide with how I imagine the tail attack to work. When the player is grabbed the gaunt reverts to its hover animation. Exactly 2 seconds after the player is grabbed the tail damage is inflicted, accompanied by one of the ( randomly selected ) player pain wavs. The actual damage of the 'tickle' can be modified during playtesting, but the frequency of the tickle must remain at 2 second intervals so the animation will sync with it. The first tail damage should only be inflicted 2 seconds after the player has been grabbed. That's why I changed the arrangement of the frames. Hope that makes sense.
I thought it would be a good idea to have the gaunt emit its sight.wav at the moment it successfully grabs the player. This makes sense because sight.wavs are used to indicate a monster changing from one behaviour ( passive ) to another ( aggresive ) and in this case the gaunt is changing from one form of behaviour to another. It would also act as a useful audio cue for the player so they always know when they've been grabbed, regardless of which monster currently has their attention.

Oh, and I rotated the model around 180&deg; so it's facing the right way now :P

I had a look at the screenshots of that lightning modification. Excellent! If you want to use that for the gaunt's lightning, necros...feel free.



Thanks for all the info and advice regarding the skinning. Though I didn't read any of it until after I'd already skinned the gaunt :/ Tbh, I'd rather just stick with the Q1 format for now anyway. It's good to work within the limitations of the game, and I want the monster to fit with the existing aesthetic. And this is my first model, of anything. Evar :P
I think the skin turned out pretty good. I went for a bony, skeletal effect like the back of the vore and scrag. Not quite Giger biomechanical, but close. I may have gotten carried away with painting ribs. For the wings I did corrugated leather, which fits the prose description, the creatures from Pitch Black and the Quake color palette. Seems okay. The skin is 340x192 - only slightly larger than any of the id skins, which is mostly because of the wing surface.
Here it is in jpg:
http://kell.vondur.net/monsters/gaunt/gaunt-skin.jpg

I also finished the gibbed-head skin, so the teeth are now properly yellowed.

And any offers to make new sound effects for the gaunt would be muchly welcome. There's only so much I can do with the Windows Sound Recorder.

gaunt-model-2.zip: http://kell.vondur.net/monsters/gaunt/gaunt-model-2.zip

--------------------
 
Oh The Humanity 
fekking tags 
 
that actually looks pretty decent, skinwise at least, can't say about animations. i'm looking forward to it. 
The Monster Mesh 
Models in GLQuake are meshed when the engine first loads them. They are then stored in .ms2 files for later reference. If you make a new version of the .mdl, you will need to delete the corresponding old .ms2 so the engine can re-mesh it. Obviously, there is no need to distribute .ms2 files with a completed model. 
Kell, 
first of all, i really like the model. the skin is great, as are the animations. i find it surprising it's your first model! i like the rib/bone look of the skin!

so far, i haven't had too much trouble putting the animations in, however, i need you to change some things for the final version.
the death animations are busted... you see, when a monster dies, it falls, and stops falling when it's bounding box hits the ground... not it's origin. so the final death anims need to be 24 units below the origin, because the bounding box goes 24 below it's origin... (so, as it is now, the monster falls to the ground and hovers 24 units over the ground)

there are only two different sizes of monsters, small ones like the player and grunt, and big ones like shambler, fiend, vore, dog...

VEC_HULL_MIN = '-16 -16 -24';
VEC_HULL_MAX = '16 16 32';

VEC_HULL2_MIN = '-32 -32 -24';
VEC_HULL2_MAX = '32 32 64';

these are the presets that quake uses. you actually can't have different sizes of bounding boxes, because the way quake does collision detection. it builds three versions of the map, only the regular is the one you see. the other two get 'extruded' so that the game will know if a hull1 or hull2 can fit through...

as you can see, the z min and max are not even, though the x and y are... so remember to take that into account when you work on the death anim.

also, try to take that into account with the rest of the model... do a uniform move for all frames. i noticed the gaunt is a little forward and a bit down during it's normal movement animations.

the rest of them work great. looking forward to the finished product! 
Christ... 
i always forget something...

i'm using the larger, ogre sized bounding box for the gaunt, kell. ;)


also: yes, you can have different sized bounding boxes, even bigger than the vore sized ones, but the collision detection gets screwed up. entities will impact on the real size of the boudning box, but quake will treat it as a size2 (larger size) bounding box, so movement will not be affected, and it will be able to move into walls until the preset larger bounding box limits it. 
Kell Gets The Prize 
Very original. If you need a good open source sound editing tool, it would not hurt to try this out

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ 
Kell, You Have Mail. 
 
New Base Monsters 
i always thought it would be cool to have a sort of in-between monster that bridged the gap between the grunt and the enforcer. half mindless lurching soldier half sleeker armored shooter. maybe it could throw crates at you!

also if someone could mod the SoA centroid so it could jump and walk on ceilings ala nehahra vores that would be kewl kthxbye.

<3 idbase 
W00000t... 
...go Kell and necros!

..and I now have a name for the current 100b work in progress - "Disquieting Lash". Thanx Kell 
Hm... 
kell, did you receive my email? i've been having trouble sending mail lately... 
Hm? 
Yeah, I got it. Just took me a while to reply. Work progresses, protractedly :/ 
*bump* 
Just an update: the gaunt is developing well. Phase I Incubation cycle complete//all biorhythms within established parameters. 
Me A Low Skinner 
Smal Question... 
Is there in Qmle a way to patch an open vertice?

In the Orb model there is a vertice missing.
The side behind the gun back upwards.
I have not been able to make it close, although made several changes. 
Spider 
and.. who remembers those spider enemies with the death knight attack and scrag sounds?

Yeah, that thing freaked me out the first time I saw it (the sound and the jump), I seem to remember it having new sfx though, not the scrag sounds. 
I... 
...will also put my hand up at being freaked out when I first encountered teh spider. I'm seriously considering their use for this year's All Hallow's Eve map. 
What The Hell Is This Spider Everyone Is Talking About? 
 
I'm Trying To Remember Myself 
I recall something called "Willy the spider" - basically a flattened sphere with legs, I think it made scrag sounds when it attacked, and screamed like a vore when dying. There may have been a better one, but I don't recall seeing it.

But the System Shock 2 ones were the scariest IMAO. 
Spider 
According to the .txt file I'm reading here Willy the spider uses only scrag and vore sounds and was made by a guy called Ken Turner.

Unfortunately his homepage is now dead and I can only find the .mdl and .txt not the .qc so I can't send it over if you want it. :-(

Mind you, it was used in quite a few maps at the time so it shouldn't be hard to track down a copy if you really want it. plumber and wishing well being two I can remember straight off.

BTW. Can't wait to see the finished Gaunt. You guys are just so.... 
The Map With The Spiders 
is TEFDBL3 
Link 
Madfox 
Do you mean welding a vertex? If you do, then there is a very hacky way of doing this in QME. Select all of the vertexes that you want to meet at the same point, and assign them to a new object. Then reset this object's pivot, open the object edit menu, and set the scope to all frames. Then keep shrinking the object, reseting the pivot when it's as small is it will go. Eventually the points will snap to the same place.

Also, here's a screenshot of a naked gug.(It's naked because I can't draw hair on it that doesn't look like black paintbrush lines...)
http://www.btinternet.com/~chapterhonour/gug.jpg 
Add-on Q1 Monster 
Thanx for your recall, Preach.
As my language isn't that commen, asurely not in constructive terms...I am trying to understand what you ment.

But as I posted the *.mdl in #84, it shouldn't be that hard to take a look at it. It is a vertex what doesn't want to "fill".

I've been trying with clipping, but it doesn't work. It still keeps an open vertice.
There must be a way in Qmle to repair it. 
Ah, Gotcha 
Had a look at the model, and I see what you mean. Luckily, it is quite easy to fix that. Select the three vertexs around the hole, and then right click. From the right click menu, select make triangle, and it plugs the hole. 
Spider 
I used the spider in a couple of my maps... changed the QC so that it used new sounds tho. 
Thanks Preach! 
Great! I kept going from the dxf file.
Now it finally fits. 
Um 
There are two spiders for Quake.
Check http://www.planetquake.com/qca
in the monsters section
you can find the zipfiles in the cdrom.com mirror, linke at my site
Alas the best spider is probably the Hexen II one. 
The Hexen 2 Models, Static And Animated 
are little masterpieces of Very Low Polygon modeling. 
Hmm 
that spider reminds me one from the Shrak addon 
Hehe 
shrak, that brings back memories. 
Wonderpeople 
Kell and necros you guys are ace! I really like how you are making an effort to really compensate for quakes shortcomings and also make sure the new enemies fit in well. GG, looking forward to playing the whole package when its done :D

(First post here, Hi! :D) 
No Edit Function? 
Couldn't seem to find an edit function, anyway I came up with a little idea. What about if you made a mod where the scenario was basically lovecraftian creatures versus humans(both teams player controlled)? Maybe battling over the necronomicon(if the team holds it it gets points?). Maybe skip out on the necronomicon, since I have never really read any lovecraft books(I will soon tho :D) I don't know if fighting over the necronomicon would fit in with the story. But anyway, Lovecraftian creatures(gaunts, fiends[?]) versus the slipgaters, battling over a rune or a book or whatnot. (Haven't really seen a playable flying creature in a quake conversion before I think :D) 
 
it's an interesting idea and reminds me of the q2 mod where it was aliens versus humans.

i personally woudln't be interested in it though because it would be multiplayer.

also, welcome and thanks for the comments. we're still working on the gaunt but it's getting closer to being almost done.

and there are so many other monsters too... mmm... monsters... 
 
necros:
I'm almost finished the gaunt anims. I added the new ones and I'm part way through modifying the deatha anim. Who's stupid idea was it to modify that one anyway? >:( Oh right...mine.

I'll email it tomorrow, or later tonight if I'm really fast an efficient. Stop sniggering at the back.
I'll send the design docs for the other monsters too...
<scitter>
[thump]
*splurch*

voodoo:
Couldn't seem to find an edit function
No, me neither. Ask metlslime about it :P 
hm... i just received one of those "mail undeliverable" replies from a message i sent you two days or so ago... just before getting it, i had sent you some emails, so just to be sure, can you tell me on here if you get them? 
Hmm 
The last mail I have from you is 'on frames and why the models look..' dated 26th April.
Hmm. 
can you check again, Kell? 
checked just now; nothing new :( 
Necros 
it's likely that my hotmail account is highly viral.
I created a new one for you to contact:

monster_kell AT hotmail DOT com

See if that's any more successful. 
Sent 
[nt] 
Recieved 
Just started reading through - looks like some awesome stuff you've achieved!
I'll send a more detailed reply when I get the chance, but I'm really looking forward to getting home now.
My wings droop with anticipation.

Also: yes, I sent you the wrong version of the model, with the old ( darker toothed ) skin and only 1 frame for the launch anim. My bad; too many backup copies for my poor little mind o_O

It's late here, cafe is closing soon so I'll wait to the morrow before replying; I'll be a lot more articulate then :P
From the looks of it, you've now got ahead of me with the concept. All your suggestions seem entirely logical and I have no reason to disagree with any of them. Not even the comment about the sounds :)




Nice work, dude. Very nice. 
i got the updated model, and working in the new frames wasn't a problem. i'm wondering if you did or not email the follow up you talked about in that email, because i haven't gotten it. just checking, because emails between us has been kind of buggy. 
Update 
Just sending it now - I took some time to consider the 'axe-only/use of weapons' issue.
Detailed feedback. 
Archer 
Was reading the lord of the rings last night, and they are currently with the rangers in Ithilien, and I suddenly imagined how cool a dark, shadowy, rather camouflaged archer enemy would be in quake.
Appearance:
Very tall, 7 feet.
Wears dark gray robe.
Face is hooded and shadowed.
Carries a bow which is as long as himself.

Attributes:
Very fast.
Same health as an enforcer.
Fires very big, fast, and high-damaging arrows, at a fire rate of about 1 arrow per 1.5 secs.

AI:
Stays as far away from you as he can, while still keeping you in his FOV. Easily detects the player and it is very hard to surprise him.

Sound:
A heavy grunt as he fires an arrow, is otherwise very silent, except he screams "SLIPGATER" upon spotting you(shouldn't really be heard what he screams until listening closely. More like "Sli-gaehe" in game)
He has a dark, bassy voice.

Just figured I'd post this to see if I could contribute. Not sure if this goes with your overall vision for the project, but I sure would like to fight with a monster such as this one. 
Archers 
Check the Arcane Wizard thread - Fatty was talking about some medieval archer monsters...

Incidentally, I could throw in the Ontranto Archers and Crossbowmen as well. These guys automatically replace grunts and enforcers in medieval (worldspawn.worldtype = 0) maps and drop nails. There's rather a lot of them about in Ontranto :)  
Seems Rather Cool. 
Maybe have my own monsters throw spears for some originality then? :D 
Hows The Gaunt Doing? 
any new animations/skins to gape at? looks nice so far 
 
Animations are essentially complete, excepting any last-minute tweaks. Code is all there, just playtesting now.

*hoot* <chirp> 
Hardcore 
keep up the good work kell, if it ends up half as good as it sounds, i'd definitely include it in the level im working on 
Well, You Know... 
keep up the good work kell

well, you know, i did do a bit too... :P 
... 
but i havent seen any of your work on it yet so i don't know if it's good :). I'm sure it will be though if it's up to your nespxx standard, so keep up the good work! And Preach too, the modelling oracle! 
 
well, you know, i did do a bit too... :P

More than a bit. Quite a lot in fact. And then a bit more. 
Oh, And 
necros: did you get my mail? I'm getting a little worried about the email b0rkage that seems to be going on :( 
... 
i got feedback on the 11th, then a followup on the 13th. i had sent a reply, i think on the 13th.

unless you've sent others, i've recieved all the mail you've sent me. i'm beginning to think there's something wrong on hotmail's end... perhaps try a different email thing?

there's this thing called spymac, and although it's geared towards macintosh users, their email is free to all. plus they give you like a freakin gig of email space. i used to have an account there. or just try yahoo or something... 
Necros 
just opened your resend from 14th. Feedback to come, as always >:D

cheers 
Kell: 
loki: http://www.planetquake.com/necros/temp/shot0021.jpg

notice the cool horn shaped feet things? ;) 
A Fiend From The South Pacific Perhaps? 
<nt> 
Heh 
I like the almost-haiku up in the corner, too. 
Necros 
thats weirder than I thought; so it actually walks on the points of it's talons. Interesting :) I have your latest mail, feedback shortly ( when I walk to a better cafe :P )

/cl_army_boots 1 
Holy Shit. 
i've just discovered one can specify _any_ colour on the palette for explosions. O_O

also, did you get my reply on TE_BEAM? you made no mention in the later feedback (may17) so i'm thinking you didn't get it. 
Necros: Explosions 
How? Are you sure this works in all engines? 
Well, 
it worked for rogue's mission pack. 
Ok, I Figured It Out -- I Think... 

WriteByte (MSG_BROADCAST, SVC_TEMPENTITY);
WriteByte (MSG_BROADCAST, TE_EXPLOSION2);
WriteCoord (MSG_BROADCAST, coordinates_x);
WriteCoord (MSG_BROADCAST, coordinates_y);
WriteCoord (MSG_BROADCAST, coordinates_z);

you use the normal temp entity setup like for all the others, but...

WriteByte (MSG_BROADCAST, #);
WriteByte (MSG_BROADCAST, #);


replace # with actual numbers.

add in those last two lines. the first writebyte controls the palette colour to start at (look at any quake palette and count the blocks to find the colours you want)
must be a number between 0 and 255

the sencond writebyte controls how many colours to go up, to add some variety to the particle colours. so a setting of 3 would use the colour you specified and the next three. (or maybe it's the one you specified and the next two... not sure, i don't sharp enough eyes i guess. ;) )

don't forget you need to declare the TE_EXPLOSION2 constant in defs.qc or just put the number 12 instead as that's what the constant is set to.

cheers! 
Necros 
yup, I got your reply re: TE_BEAM ( and the resend ) I was just waiting 'til I had some stuff to send and was keeping it a bit separate from the gaunt discourse for the moment.
I concur with your general opinion, though I still want to implement the design. Shouldn't be very hard anyway, and I have some specific map designs that are highly relevant.

Feedback later today. If I seem to be getting a little slow with replying it's just that I think I should spend more time in front of qME and Radiant instead of Hotmail ;)

cheers, dude 
Some Stuff You Might Be Intrested In.... 
I made a model once for a 'broodling', kinda like a small vore-type monster (looked related to a vore). The idea was that it would walk on dark ceilings high above, then drop down on a line of 'spider web' (invisible really) when the player had his back turned. It would then creep up behind the player (actually you could hear a quiet clicking of its claws) and perform a simple melee attack. Typically get around 6 of them attacking at the same time. You could send a rocket up into dark ceilings and see them falling down like apples ;) .
The code was never quite finished though. If anyone is interested (ie: wants to use them in a map or something) I'll upload the stuff.
Also I made a maggot enemy with an example map, you might have seen it. 
Also 
Someone should also convert all the Hexen 2 monsters... 
I Need... 
...some smallish, fast and scareish monsters in Quake, just like facehugger from AvP or headcrab from Half-Life. That's first.

For the second I'd love to see a decent flying enforcer with proper model, animation and code.

For the third I'd much appreciate any good techy-melee monster, like, I dunno- a fiend plated with armour, mechanical dog or something like that.

However, you guys rock with modelling, skinning, coding and sounding the new stuff for Quake, which the community can use in projects, maps etc. Respect to you all, magicians =) 
MisYu 
'...some smallish, fast and scareish monsters in Quake, just like facehugger from AvP or headcrab from Half-Life. That's first.'

Kona's Carved in Flesh has a miniture but fast fiend that is very convincing in that role. 
HeadThump 
But the problem is I don't understand and tolerate any resized standard Quake monsters, because it looks ridiculous. =( =( 
Necros And I Are 
so ahead of you guys ;)











<scitter>*twitch* 
Kell, 
my model work using Blender isn't intended for Quake, but okay, you deserve that one uppage 
It Wasn't Intended 
as one-uppage 
Go Ahead, The Model Is Nice 
pat yourself on the back. You're a good kid, Kell. Don't be so hard on yourself. 
Kell 
Cheeky bastid... now put your web page back up somewhere (if it is already, URL!?) 
'You're A Good Kid, Kell. Don't Be So Hard On Yourself.' 
was meant as a South Park allusion and not as an insult. You're awesome, Kell.

Anyways, my mom says I'm cool. 
Sorry About Bumping The Thread 
but hows the progress going?
(i'm a little excited about new monsters) 
Very Well. 
^_^ 
Well... 
Floyd went to the petition for making Logo
candidate, meanwhile bulls and crickets made Floyd almost run for soldier.

http://members.home.nl/gimli/floyd02.jpg
http://members.home.nl/gimli/floyd01.jpg
http://members.home.nl/gimli/floyd03.jpg

For the part of the floyd.mdl I'm working on;

http://members.home.nl/gimli/floyd01.zip 
Floyd03... 
LOL 
Mega E's 
First of all - where to get those blue Mega Enforcers?

Secondly - how to put them in your level? Is it a complex process? 
Mikko 
The original incarnation of the Mega Enforcers can be found in Zerst�rer add-on for Quake. If you can find the zer download, it also includes the devkit (including quakec sources). You options would be to:

a) use the original Zer quakec (disabling all unneeded stuff like weapon precaches and whatnot from the quakec sources).

b) port the Mega Enforcer code to ID or Hipnotic quakec sources. 
Mikko 
The original incarnation of the Mega Enforcers can be found in Zerst�rer add-on for Quake. If you can find the zer download, it also includes the devkit (including quakec sources). You options would be to:

a) use the original Zer quakec (disabling all unneeded stuff like weapon precaches and whatnot from the quakec sources).

b) port the Mega Enforcer code to ID or Hipnotic quakec sources. 
Jago 
I have no idea how to do any of that. What you did to get them into your latest map? I have seen these guys in numerous levels so I thought they have been released to public as some custom monster pack or something.

I mean - I guess I need the code for the guys and the models - but would I have to do more than just place them in correct directories within the Pak file? 
Floyd03 
All that knockin'on Logo's door...
Ask Floyd yourself, as ready it is.

http://members.home.nl/gimli/Floyd02.jpg
http://members.home.nl/gimli/soldier.zip

Commands welcome! 
Here's A Command: 
Commands? 
Mikko 
Basically, I downloaded the Zetst�rer and Scourge of Armagon QuakeC sources, figured what I wanted added/changed from the Scourge of Armagon sources and asked Kinn for help. The progs.dat that comes with my latest map is based on SoA + megaenforcer code ported from Zer, SoA weapon precaches disabled and a misc_ambient entity added for custom ambient sounds. 
Good Advice, Jago 
SoA QuakeC source creates suprisingly few bugs and conflicts in the registers when integrated with other sources. I had a devil of a time with Rouge some time back. 
A Not So Custom Monster Or Two 
Ok, two models that might, *might* just pass as quake style...although neither of them are new custom monsters, so don't get all excited folks.

The first one I made way back when people last posted in this thread about the mega enforcer. I've always reckoned that the force field, cute as it may be, isn't the best that the quake engine could do, so I've made an new model, with a different effect. It looks a bit like the glquake glow shells...but don't let that put you off. To try it in quake, find a mod/map that has mega-enforcers, and replace the enforce2.mdl in the progs folder with the model in:
http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/ajd70/enforce2.zip

Ok, if messing with the untouchable classic zerstorer wasn't bad enough, I've gone and made...a replacement vore! So, why would I bother, and why would you want to use one? The idea is that people who don't own a copy of quake would be able to play custom maps using just the shareware, if it wasn't for all those missing models from pak1.pak. So I have the slightly ambitious aim to replace these monsters.

The catch is, that I'm sure you'd agree it'd be a shame if the new monsters didn't fit in with that special quake atmosphere, so that's where you guys come in. If you would download the model, try it out, and give me some pointers as to what to change to make it match the style of quake, it'd be really helpful. Just forgive the walk animation, this isn't the final model, I'm still trying to get it to match up with the movement of the original, and right now it looks a bit off.

Oh, almost forgot a link to the vore model:
http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/ajd70/shalrath.zip

PS: There is an evil .tga skin with the vore, for evil people who use evil custom engines. 
Vore, 
i don't think it looks very good. the proportions are all off. the torso is too skinny and the arms are too beefy. also, the wierd ridge/scales on the bottom part of the legs look strange.
attack animation could be smoother as well. also, the little spikelets on the face should be a bit more fat and juicy. ;)
good job with the skin though, getting all the nice details crammed in there. with this added detail, maybe you could try to get the skin a bit less 'smooth'.

it's a good start though, so keep it up!

for the mega enforcer, that effect works pretty well. 
Preach 
cunning idea there with the mega enforcer shield :) The only drawback is that it has to be skinned with the palette's very few fullbrights and of course there's no transparency. But for an implementation of someone else's idea, it does the job very well. 
Whats Up? 
 
Whats Up? 
 
Om On Fire 
repersent me when i talk 
Whats Up? 
 
I'm Evel What's You'r Name 
it just meens a funny way to let me out of funny would. 
And Before The Toppic Runs Dry... 
Well I decided to put my own Quake1 monsters on my site:

http://members.home.nl/gimli/gimli08.htm

They are also on the ModB site bundeled as an addon:

http://customize.addondb.com/?search=true&addon=&mf=0&game=2&type=12&disp=0&date=0&order=0&desc=sort

I saw the floyd model used on Quake terminus as logo.., what will Metropolis play when he sees?

Great models you have there, Preach! 
Cool 
Nice enemies Madfox, a bit disparate so I can't immediately think of how to combine them well, but some good work.

The Grrl puts me in mind of a Q2 TC / expansion - after seeing how the Infantry was used in Bastion. Maybe five or so enemies ported across -

Infantry
Bitch
Medic
Gunner
Gladiator

Could be interesting as a code project.

The Shalrath I'm not to fond of (Preach) it looks like you're going a bit insectoid in the style, whereas I prefer the shaggy netherworld creature look of the original.

The MegaEnforcer shield is excellent - you just inverted the normals I take it, clever idea.

Can't remember the thread where all the concept stuff was being posted, although I have alot of it now to go in my screensaver / reference folder.

Might put togther a creature or two and try dusting off the old anim skills. 
Also 
I just ran the grrl under Quoth, so when the rocketeers turned up the grrl had rockets =) 
Monster Strugglin' 
I made them as substitutes for the usual monsters in Quake, sharpened my knowledge of their behaviour. Great you can make them work in a mod.

The idea for the bat to compare the scrag was an old wish I had as I thought the dungeons of medieval quake deserved it. But it's a hard trade to see the vertices getting meshed up from a clean dxf!

Now I'm working on a tricerops-like model I saw in that "HellBoy" movie, as it has a strange attitude of the demon_fiend. I wonder if I can get that medusa head working. 
Hm 
Interesting stuff - I've got a huge list of possible q1 enemies, and since they're fairly simple (8 frames for a run cycle! Less than 1000 polys!) I should get off my arse and put them together. 
Quake 1 
Demon Body 
Attempt 
Oops, I Mean 
Hmmm... 
Doing some house cleaning today and came across an email convo between Mindcrime and myself about his possible inclusion in the Travail team (March 6 2006). Mention was made of the original idea for endboss of episode 2:

The Twins are a different kettle of fish. Think two slightly up scaled Ogre's - torso, head and arms only - each is bolted to a hover platform. The Twins aren't dressed as ogres though, they look like the Enforcer's much older, angry, armoured brothers. One twin sports an SNG integrated into the end of his left arm. The right forearm has been replaced by a long pointed shock rod. The other twin's left forearm has been converted into a dual rocket launcher which delivers slightly staggered homing missiles. This one's right fist has been replaced with a buzz saw. Keep your distance and you'll cop it from their left side, get in close and feel the pain from their right. If you are still alive after they've depleted their ammunition, they will definitely close in for some face to face action.

Ah, the dreams of man... 
Fuh 
fuh 
Shut The Fuh Up. 
 
Perfect Monster Would Be... 
... genetic mutation in between a Shambler, a Gug and a Scragg.... though... 
Zerstorer. 
Was close to that. Shame you never got to fight him... 
 
someone could re-rig him and make a monster........ 
Perfect Monster 
An Old One from Lovecraft's dream cycle.

Almost impossible to animate though. Most pictures of it are crap - the tentacles / feelers should be meters long... 
Unfortunately... 
... Inever finished Zerstorer... maybe I should consider it ;) 
Out, Heretic, Out 
 
I Only Made 1 Model 
This one:
http://www.youtube.com/user/megalodonNL#p/u/0/-7UeYdAGjjE

I'd love to know what programs people use here that are still into quake1 modeling/animation...

There's not much info on making Q1 baddies :) 
Good Model 
Looks good, although I thought its arms are unskinned.
The player looks like in deathmatch.

There are several programs for modelling in Quake. They are old but sufficient.
Each have th�ir own specifics.
Here are a few links of the programs I use.

Qmle is more for modelling
http://www.xs4all.nl/~renep/quakeme/

The Old Quark4.07 has a model studio
http://quark.sourceforge.net/

Weapon:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~renep/qmehelp/tutmyfirstmdl.htm

Binairy for Quake mdl
http://tfc.duke.free.fr/coding/mdl-specs-en.html

Preach Modelling Help (Very Good!)
http://www.quakeexpo.com/booth.php?id=32

Wally is more for texturing.
http://www.telefragged.com/wally/ 
 
Thanks for replying. I'm currently looking into Blender and already had Qme installed. It's easy to use .dxf and .mdl formats to swap files between the two programs.

Question: what exactly is the the limit for a model in a modern engine? Does anyone know? 
 
BTW: nice link to that modeling help indeed, thanks again :) 
Depends Which Limit 
480 height is the limit for a texture and engines tend to crash with non-power of 2 textures. Although all the id1 tex's are non power of two, its worth bearing in mind if a mesh crashes the thing and you don't know why.

Frames limit is 256 - any more than that and you'll need to split the Qc file, although thats the advanced class.

I don't think there's a limit on polys, but there probably will be. Haven't tried hirez. 
What Exactly Is The The Limit For A Model? 
The Sky.

Read Binairies.

CONSTANTS
Maximum number of triangles: 2048
Maximum number of vertices: 1024
Maximum number of texture coordinates: 1024
Maximum number of frames: 256
Number of precalculated normal vectors: 162
 
 
it should be noted that in stock glquake, i believe max triangles is 1000? or something really low (even though dos/winquake have the limits madfox posted).
i believe most (all?) modern engines based on glquake have upped the limit to match software quake.

also, non-power-of-2 skin crashing an engine sounds like bs to me. that would make the engine crash whenever it tried to run the game since all the skins in stock quake are non-power-of-2. it might have been that weird bug with the top corner pixel colour or something, although that usually just makes the whole skin black. 
 
Although all the id1 tex's are non power of two, its worth bearing in mind if a mesh crashes the thing and you don't know why.

I've seen a crash from bad skin size and I don't know why. Playing safe I've fixed it in the past by making the skin a power or 2. 
Not A Coder 
but isnt that only if you tried to use voodoo cards and minigl or whatever it was called. 
 
When I read/watch general low-poly character tutorials online, I see the artist work with quads and they only split the quad in triangles at the joints for proper mesh bending.

However, Quake 1 models can only have triangles, right? No quad polygons. I remember reading that somewhere and every original Q1 model I've observed in Qme, is triangular all the way. 
Well 
Quads are only a visual thing anyway - in reality they're still split into triangles, you just don't see it.

But yeah, triangles only. Since there's so few polys you'll need the extra control anyway to get the precise dimensions right. 
Wait A Minute... 
"in reality they're still split into triangles, you just don't see it. "

If I read that statement above, I'd think I don't have to manually split the quads into triangles...

However, I've done an experiment with a simple object that only had quads and loaded it into Qme. Qme would then split the quads into triangles, but it did so by cutting/deleting the quad poly into half :) 
I Forgot To Mention 
Forgot to add that in the Preach Quake Expo tutorial (day 2:
http://www.quakeexpo.com/booth.php?id=32&page=91)
he doesn't mention triangles at all (or I've missed it) and gets a default object in quake. Yet the weapon model in the same tutorial (day 3), is all triangles again...

Perhaps the md3 export already took care of the quads or gmax and blender work differently in that regard?

I'll figure it out. Perhaps I'll just model with quad loops first as in a great low-poly tut I found and then later fix it to be triangles and lower-res. On the other hand, I also observed a female .md2 model in Qme and I'm amazed how efficient that was done. You can clearly see how it's NOT just extruded loops. Instead, every part of the model is carefully optimized in triads in a very specific manner. For instance, there's some lower detail on certain parts, like the arms, but the vertices are moved around just right so that the shoulder and/or forearm still has necessary accents. The poly's that are saved this way are used to make a nice female buttocks :) Man, that's so awesome! I think that must be Paul Steed who was probably already working at id at that time... what a freak! 
Triangles And Low Poly Reference 
The most important thing I do in gmax is to work with an "editable mesh" type object. In the modify tab you then have the option to select by face(which automatically goes down to triangles), or by polygon (which preserves the quads if the model is made of them).

That tutorial is no longer state of the art, fiddling around with Quark can be replaced with
http://www.btinternet.com/~chapterhonour/md3tomdl.zip
or the other tool I can't find a link to right now.

Also, for some great examples of low-poly work, including some helpful tips on the cheapest way to create properly deforming limbs, check out the low poly thread on polycount:
http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=41232 
Ah... 
Thanks for that missing link about Gmax, Preach.

Those guys at Polycount still haven't finished their main webpage... how many years is this?

BTW: you're not 'Preacher' that created the map Aerowalk, are you? 
Not So 
Afraid he pre-dates me by a little while, 'tis a great map. 
Not Costom Quake1 Monster Yet 
Megalodon 
That get's asked a lot... 
 
@ Lardarse: What gets asked a lot? Whether Preach is Preacher, or any of my other questions in this topic?

@ MadFox: a modified Ogre, I like it :) 
Retired 
It's the original Ogre, but he wasn't costom enough. 
If He's Preacher 
 
 
The oldogre is now feared and worshipped by all the other ogres. 
 
madfox sobs in russian bablefish... 
Hi From A New Mapper 
Hi all.. very interesting thread !

I'm making(trying) new models for my single player Quake projects 
Hi MAch-5 
Welcome! So do you have any pictures of your work? :D 
Here's What I Use 
3dsMax for the 3D
Qwalk to export the models
Photoshop for the textures
Goldwave for sounds
notepad++ for coding
fteqcc to compile the Qc

Maybe concentrate on one thing at first, but once you get a bit more practice monsters can be put together pretty quickly. Making GOOD monsters is harder and takes a lot more time, but is worth it.

A lot of the stuff I list up there I have access to through work, though there are a lot of freeware programs that can be used instead - I've heard of Animation Master, Blender, Paint Shop Pro etc that can be used instead of the otherwise expensive 3D/2D stuff. 
 
gimp is a free alternative to photoshop.
i had a really hard time trying to use it though, because i've been using photoshop for years now. i think, though, if you never used photoshop, learning gimp would be simple because you don't have to unlearn all the PS shortcuts.

i hear often that it's quite good, too. 
+1 To GIMP 
Great UI. Has its qerks but its good. Can take a while to load, it always loads loads of fonts before opening. I think photoshop is probably much better TBH. I've been using CS4 web edition which doesn't have photoshop, but the draw module in Flash I thought was awesome. You cant do that stuff with GIMP. You can do weird script-stuff in GIMP but I have never had a handle on any of that stuff. :( 
Ricky 
Do you mean vectors? Use Inkscape for that.

I love GIMP. And I really like it's seperate windows because my window manager allows me to control them nicely. 
Yeah, But There's No Line Tool. 
To do simple drawing I have to use paint. But for editing bitmaps GIMP is awesome. I mean there's a clone tool, brushes like PSP, a magic wand selection tool like photoshop etc. But it doesnt have a line tool. Sometimes a curved line is what you need, and you cant get one from GIMP. 
Use Paths 
 
 
or selections. Draw On Selection or something. 
Vomitus Teaser 
Here's what I've been thinking about one of our 'new' enemies.

It should be a Shalrath class enemy, although much more defensive / medic class.

The vomit attack is its primary ability:

It eats any gibs lying around if it has no player in view or has no player, which become gib ammo.
If a grenade is fired at it then it is diffused and becomes grenade ammo.
It only vomits at player entities
When vomiting it fires a qty of stuff at the player dependant on the skill level 1-4
Grenades act the same as normal player grenades - they bounce and later explode
If a Vomitus manages to hit itself with a Grenade or gib then it is re-consumed
Gib ammo bounces but does not explode, causing 5 damage to any non-undead hit
Grenade ammo bounces and explodes as normal, it can gib undead
Any non-special ammo is deigned as blood ammo, the default
Blood ammo does not bounce and causes 3 damage on hit
As well as this the Vomitus can create zombies (after chewing) from any human-sized corpse. Bigger corpses produce a zombie and a number of gibs dependant on how big it is.

A gib produces one gib ammo
Dogs and fish produce two gib ammos
Scrags, Grunts and Enforcers produce a zombie and one gib ammo
Ogres produce a zombie and 3 gib ammos
Vores Produce two zombies and 3 gib ammos
Shamblers produce three zombies and 2 gib ammos
A dead player produces one zombie and one gib ammo, and any grenades carried are converted to grenade ammo
So, the ideaa is that it's not transforming the corpse but instead reconstituting it into something else...

I'm thinking also that three rockets or a combination of damages finishing with a rocket are needed since it instantly 'dispels' grenades and has a melee ability to fall back on called devour.

Devour deals 100 damage to anything hit, instantly converting it to ammo if killed (removing any corpse)
Vomitii ignore attacks by all other monsters (they're not the sensitive type)
Other monsters can't gib a Vomitus, and forget about it once it temporarily dies 
Sounds A Bit Complicated For Quake? 
That's just a gut reaction though. 
Pretty Much My Reaction Too 
first, i don't think it needs ammo.

i like the idea that it gains the ability to fire a grenade if it catches one, but there's no need to complicate matters by keeping track of how many it's got. all a player needs to know is that "when i fire a grenade at this thing, it can fire it back". a simple 'if grenade is caught, then next attack is a grenade attack' type of thing is all that's needed to convey this. after the first grenade catch, subsequent grenades are still caught, but won't trigger another grenade attack until the first has been completed.

also, i don't see why it couldn't catch missiles too. while it would be cool if it could fire actual missiles back at the player from a gameplay pov, it doesn't really make much sense. still, if it could convert missiles to grenades, that'd still be an interesting mechanic.

for it's normal ranged attack, i don't see why you'd want to limit it with gib ammo unless it's some kind of overpowering ability, which would be bad for other reasons.

as for the whole zombie resurrection thing, it seems like there's too many abilities on one monster. especially if you're going use the vomitus as a base, which has a really boring and ugly model. basically just a blob with a couple of tentacles.
this is just opinion, but resurrection abilities seem way too cool to put on a blob. :P 
Well 
The 'I fire this, it fires it back' is pretty much what it does. The whole 'ammo' thing is just how it works internally.

Not being able to change rockets is just to allow the player to kill it, explained that the velocity of the thing causes it to explode.

The overpowering ability is being able to manufacture new enemies - the ressurection thing is just to underline the fact that it's undead and make it tough to kill. It can also start 'deflated' until triggered.

Already redone the mesh :)

Finally, about the complexity, a lot of our monsters are more complex than the originals, but to the player remain relatively simple. The idea isn't to confuse the player but leave them thinking 'ah cool, I'll be ready for that next time!'

So grunts that strafe and reload as opposed to patient Enforcers who lie in wait makes both more complex from a code standpoint, but the game more varied and interesting overall. 
GIMP 
is the typical open source application. It has great features, is stable and performs well, but it looks and feels like shit. It does not adhere to any GUI standards on any platform that I know! I have never been able to use it at all. 
 
I find Gimp, Blender, and GTKRadiant a lot more intuitive than PaintShopPro, Gmax, and Worldcraft.

I haven't tried Photoshop because I can't be arsed to pay the monstrous sum that some evil commercial entity requires. Same for 3ds max. I find Blender's UI to be superb, actually. GIMP is getting there, it's already down to two windows. 
 
Also, wasn't there something called GimpShop that has a Photoshop-like UI? Or did that project die? 
 
GimpShop is dead afaik. 
Looks Pretty Alive And Kicking To Me 
www.gimpshop.com 
Better A Half Knight Then No Horse! 
Look what Ijed's Id did to me!

http://members.home.nl/gimli/beacon.wmv 
Hahah 
 
Stupid Teleporters 
jpl sure has to take a look at it! 
Wot ?? 
I don;t get it .... o_O 
Haha 
I was aiming to the broken teleporter in one of your levels. It's still on my mind.

The knight tried the wrong teleporter and ended up like this. 
Broken Teleporter... 
... hmmmm... I don't see what you are thinking about... nv 
C'mon 
Half arrives at one telepad and the other half on the opposite side of the dungeon. 
 
i actually thought it was going to be like a special knight version where you kill him and his torso keeps coming after you, floating like that, with the entrails dangling.

broken teleporter is goofy. :P 
Indeed 
I was thinking of a level, where there is a broken teleporter.
It looked something like this, but I can't remember the name of the level.
http://members.home.nl/gimli/badporter.jpg 
Pyramid Head 
Anyone ever thought of remodeling some of the Silent Hill monsters for Quake? I know it wouldn't be original, but there's some pretty Fucked Up Shit in Silent Hill that would probably fit in Quake. 
 
i liked those strange acid belching armless zombie things in the SH movie. 
 
Yeah I always thought the Silent Hill monsters, or at least some of them, would work well in Quake. But I wouldn't just take them and move them into Quake, I would just use them as reference/inspiration. 
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