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Painkiller
Totally awesome game, loved every second of it. If you've played any of the single player demos knocking about on the net you'll know what its all about.

Particularly impressive were some of the later maps (styles not seen in any of the demos) and some genius enemy design.

so yeah very cool, go buy it etc. Just make sure you can run it before you hand over your cash, a lot of people are having problems with the cd protection software it uses, sp have a look at the website ( http://www.painkillergame.com )and check the forums before you head out.
Incidentally... 
No editor ships with the game, which sucks :( Maybe they will release an editor or something later.

Also, at some (very rare) points in some maps my computer grinds to a halt as so much crazy physics stuff is happening, this only happened about 4-5 times during the entire game but ouch it was nasty, like sub 10 fps cos so much crazy stuff was happening, other than these times it runs silky smooth.

In-case you want to compare specs:

AthlonXP 3000+
1024mb drr
Ati radeon 9800xt 
 
there will be no editor. the whole game was made in maya. 
Hmm 
It'd be nice if they released export scripts for those of us that have Maya though.

(Not that I'm gonna get the game, I was decidely unimpressed with it, but you get the point) 
Hmm 
I tried the first demo, (well, as much as I could stomach)but I just didn't find it very interesting/enjoyable. But thats just me. 
How Long... 
did the game take to finish?

Seems like games today have far shorter play through times then in the days of Unreal, Quake 2, Half-Life etc. 
Oh, I've Noticed 
Call it the Max Payne syndrome -- though with Max Payne, the game was so cinematic it still fealt like a complete gaming experience.

It doesn't look like we'll be getting any FPS the size of Ultima IV or DaggerFall, but who knows, maybe Id and Valve will keep to their standard in depth length, and maybe, just maybe, Duke Nuk'em Forever will come out.

The relative failure of Invisible War will, it is hoped, put a fire under the PC game industries toes. A sequal that was approximately one fifth the size of the original. Unbelievable. 
Well 
took me 5 and a half hours to complete, but I've since replayed and replayed and replayed and replayed etc cos its so damn fun.

btw, on each level you can unlock a different powerup and then combine up to 5 powerups at once to kick arse, a cool feature :) 2x speed, 2x faster reload, 4x world slowdown is a nice combo to use :D 
Well 
It doesn't look like we'll be getting any FPS the size of Ultima IV or DaggerFall, but who knows, maybe Id and Valve will keep to their standard in depth length

hmm, I beleive that John Carmack has said something along the lines of, he likes the idea of packing alot of detail into a smaller/shorter game. I haven't got the quote, and therefore they aren't the exact words.

So I guess we will have to wait and see. I myself would like a longer (yeah that too)experience. 
Unreal 2... 
...on it's brief length alone did not deserve that title. Return to NaPali felt longer. I also heard that Call of Duty is pretty short too.

Deus Ex felt huge and had great depth. I was interested in the sequel but I'll wait until it's cheap.

Anyone here try the second downloadable Painkiller demo? (it has an extra level.) 
The Other Demo 
It has a cool venice styled level but it kept crashing my system so I never got to finish it. If you plan on buying the game anyways I would just wait the couple days. 
=( 
Just got home with it today and will return it tomorrow. It will not run as long as I have CloneCD installed. I checked in their forum only to find that due to the security built into the disc/game there are many optical drives and some programs the keep Painkiller from running.

I will happily live without the Painkiller "experience" rather than put up with those kinds of security restrictions.

It is their game and they are entitled to do as they please but... YIKES! 
Hmm 
I like the shorter (but better) games. Although that does of course come with the need for a drop in prices. 
Yes 
I would agree, as long as the (but better) is in, but I would still prefer longer and better 
Omg Omg 
pk rocks!
i'm in the end of the second chapter fighting swamp monster, it rocks! :)
this game is pure rockage!!!! 
Heh 
You want a long, and good, game -- try Wind Waker. Jimmeny Christ on a pogo-stick, that game is ultra-filled with content. 
Painkiller 
I've only played the demos of Painkiller and I had different experiences in terms of overall enjoyment from each.

To be blunt, I thought the first was shit. The combats were mostly unenjoyable (once the novelty of impaling guys with stakes wore off) and went on for way too long. There was also the problem of lack of weapon choice make everything feel a little samey. It felt much like serious sam but smaller and more polished. I didn't enjoy the repetetiveness of SS, although it worked fairly well in coop - Painkiller does not have coop as far as I am aware. FUCK knows why - surely it is possible on a fast connection such as LAN. The weapons and sound were good though :)

I was fairly impressed with the second demo, which contains the Venice styled level mentioned earlier in this thread. Perhaps it was the addition of the save points or maybe the level was from an earlier point in the game, but whatever it was, it seemed easier than the the first demo. The combats didn't seem to go on and on quite as much as demo 1, and the monsters were a lot more enjoyable to fight. I also found the weapons seemed to mow down the enemies a lot more easily than before - maybe this was in my imagination. The grapple hook style weapon seemed especially powerful and allowed me to breeze through the demo without ever worrying about ammunition.

Overall I was fairly impressed with the game, although I worry about the full game having a lot of boring stuff as in the first demo. I doubt I'll buy it - probably just borrow it.

Than 
This Game Owns Me! 
holy shit, jesus crap!

i swear, my second next map is going to be like this!!!!!111one 
Patch Released 
PCF has released the 1st patch for painkiller which should fix any issues with the copy protection, but they still warn to not run any mounted drives / certain apps while installing & playing the game...

http://www.painkillergame.com/content/en/faqs/tech_faqs2.php#8 
Fack... 
anyone else having problems getting to map c3l2? it keeps crashing as it loads the level...
i'm hoping monday's patch will fix it... 
Boh. 
Best thing about Painkiller so far (1/3 the way through I guess): The blowing fog/mist/cloud - really top quality atmospheric.


Worst thing about Painkiller so far: Secrets obviously designed by VONDUR. 
I Like It. 
I really liked painkiller except for the impossible-to-figure-out-how-to-kill end boss.

I think companies are failing to see that more people will buy the game if there is no such thing as a cdkey/copy protection. The only reason so many people bought tribes was that the community was so big. (tribes did not have any kind of cd protection or cd key) and that made the game stay alive so much longer then it would otherwise have. Same thing with q1, how many people here actually buyed q1? I think a big secret to its success was that you didn't have to buy it to play online and with friends. I think that the smartest move in the gaming world in a long time was by id software with quake 3, they left the game without a proper cd key check for the first 3 years or so, and then with 1.32 they added the proper cd key check, massive amounts of quake 3's were sold(for being so old) because people needed cd keys for a game they were hooked and involved in, and I think painkiller would be alot more popular and evolving online then it is now if it didn't have a cd key check. Right now its pretty small, with not a whole lot of servers active.

Nobody wants to buy a multiplayer game noone is playing. 
Hmmm.... 
how many people here actually buyed q1?

I did, actually I have around 15 copies, and multiple copies of the mission packs. I got most of the different releases, from Original cardbaord sleave thingy, through subsequent release that include GL on CD, compilations Like "The Offering (which include Quake and Mission Packs)" etc, etc. I'm a bit of a collector, plus I luv Quake. 
Popular And Evolving Online 
One of the things holding Painkiller back from getting a lot of online play is that everyone knows it sucks. It sucks up and down the block. It sucks like a thousand hoovers falling into a black hole. Any ping less than 80 makes the game unplayable and the weapons are poorly balanced for mp play. 
Hmmm 
It sucks up and down the block. It sucks like a thousand hoovers falling into a black hole.

Thats what I thought, but I thought that about the SP side of things. 
Can't Get To The Web Page... 
error:

Method Not Allowed
The requested method POST is not allowed for the URL /index2.php. 
Err 
how many people here actually buyed q1?

The reason there weren't more pirated copies of Q1 is that 80mb was a LOT to download on a 28.8 back in 1996. And no one had CD burners.

Meanwhile, today you can download 3 CDs worth of data overnight if you get a good torrent. And torrent's are capable of resuming a download, which, I might add, is not something that every HTTP or FTP server supported in 1996. 
Second RPG There 
I don't blame the companies for doing what they can to protect themselves; one exception I'll mention. Deus Ex: Invisible War. If it is installed on a WindowsXP or 2000 system, you have to have Asministrator status to even install the program. That just tells me that it is doing things under the hood it has no business doing. 
Gah? 
I think companies are failing to see that more people will buy the game if there is no such thing as a cdkey/copy protection . . . how many people here actually buyed q1? I think a big secret to its success was that you didn't have to buy it to play online and with friends.

What.

"More people will buy the game without protection", but then "no one bought Q1"? You don't seem to be making a whole lot of sense.

It's clear that many people out there will not buy a game unless they have to. It's human nature and many people are worthless leeching fucktubs.

That being said, it's an interesting idea to get people "hooked" and then apply copy protection, albeit a little iffy, since what's to stop people from just playing with the older version . . .

In any case, Painkiller SP kicks much ass. I'm going through a second time to unlock the other levels and the "real" ending, and to find all the secrets (I very much enjoy the challenge involved--I like that sort of crap).

(How about a Painkiller icon?) 
I Bought Q1 
But I made sure it was a UK copy because it didn't require activation through id unlike the North American version at the time. Quake had only been out for a few weeks.

Best $60Cdn I ever paid. I also bought both mission packs, Shrak, Malice and QZone. Mission packs were very good - some of the others listed weren't so good. 
I Discovered Quake 
rather late actually. Quake 2 was already out, and I had never really been into computer games until I my friend showed me this new "Quake" thing. After that I was pretty much hooked. As soon as I had a decent computer, I rushed out and bought the game, plus the two mission packs. After that I tried Malice - reasonably impressed. Then a couple of years later I tracked down a copy of Shrak on eBay - which turned out to be rubbish.

I have since bought extra copies of Quake on CD, for no real reason other than out of pure love for the game. 
So... 
Shrak can still be purchased?
I've checked the website and it seems not bad, though it's x years old and there're tons of mod haging on the net. 
Levelworm 
You'll probably have to search around on eBay. In my opinion, it's not worth paying much for it. It's much lower quality than any of the official mission packs, and like you say, there is a metric arseload of superior free mappage floating around the net. 
Trailed Off 
Sorry, guess I trailed off a little. Only one of my friends bought q1, and we were about 10 people sharing that one cd(and burning off it, Sweden being the IT nation it is, alot of people had burners when q1 came out.)

I was making a bad and probably very false point when I said that more people will buy it if it doesn't have cd protection, something the game will however, is become famous, popular and long-lived. 
Shamler 
sigh, bosses are fun and easy to solve. go use yer graymatter dammit! :)

pk, has the best bosses evar! 
Hmm 
pk, has the best bosses evar!

I loved the swamp boss, great battle that one, and very visual too. Great boss.

The Tower boss is also very good, and visual too, the other 2 or 3 bosses weren't as good but still fun. 
i was one of the few who devoted a couple of days to download quake when it came out. :P but i had a 486 back then, so quake didn't play very well. i ended up buying the whole thing a little while later as a big package, with quake, and both mission packs in one because i felt the game company deserved the money. 
Bosses 
I don't remember complaining about the bosses on this thread. But, I will:

First boss was okay. A bit tedious but impressive and fairly straightforward.

Second boss sucked. Looked great, but frustrating and gimmicky. Spending ages figuring out what to do whilst dying. No gameplay fun whatsoever. Eventually I found a walkthrough but even then it was pretty pointless.

I'm getting the feeling that it's not really possible to have a good boss combat, I think intrinsically boss combats can't be fun. They're either pointlessly repetitive, annoyingly trick dependent, or just too hard. I think the way to have boss combats is try to make them a climatic and fitting conclusion to the previous combats with particular regard to story and progression, i.e. focus on them as the conclusion to previous progression rather than just a random big monster. So far, PK's are the latter. 
Just Bought The Thing, Can't Install It. 
The fucking thing crashes about a quarter of the way through the first CD with the error message:

Error while decompressing file C:\Program Files\Dreamcatcher\Painkiller\Data\Movies\end_of_chapter_1.bik, err = -5

I tried installing again but got the same message. Oh well, back to the shop I go. 
Oh, 
looks like the end of that error message has been eaten by the func_msgboard gremlins, but you get the idea. 
 
Perhaps there's a hardware issue or something and a patch to resolve it? 
It Appears To Be A Corrupt CD 
But I'm checking the tech faqs on the website just in case. 
there was a lot of problems with cd security things or something like that... i'm not sure why some people get it and others don't though. there is a patch that's supposed to fix the installation though. 
Thanks Necros 
I'll have a look at that.

I've tried installing it 4 times now. After the first abort, I did some googling and found that some people have been having the same problems and that it was caused by the presence of certain spyware on their system. One SpyBot purge later, I still get CRC checking errors, and they happen at different points in each attempted install. I've already been down to the shop once and got a replacement copy of the game, thinking it was a dodgy cd, but no luck. I've tried disabling all my startup programs - and I've just done a full virus check. 
CD Fix 
Necros, AKAIK, that would only help if I had managed to get the thing installed in the first place. I can't even get the files on the first CD to copy to my hard drive, without the installation aborting. Anyway, I've emailed tech support, so hopefully that might help. 
Bosses 
The levels had little logical progression from one to another so I wouldn't expect the bosses to. That suits me just fine.

I thought the PK bosses were pretty decent with the swamp guy being a low point and the guy with mjolner a high point. 
.. 
aww.. that's too bad. i think you would really like the game. it's got lots of horde combat. >:) 
I'm Just Waiting Until My Brother 
is willing to give up his copy before I play it. I gave'em Far Cry dang it! 
I'll Spend One More Day 
trying to get this to work, but I don't think I can invest any more time in it than that. I emailed tech support and they gave me a swift and lengthy reply - this is clearly a common problem - their solution involves having to download and install numerous spyware removing utilities; I have to fiddle with my CD drive's DMA/PIO, whatever the hell that is; I have to disable/remove various multimedia players that I may have installed; and I have to disable an arseload of other misc. programs that may be running in the background as well.

All this just to get the installer to work - from what I gather from the forums, this is 100% due to Dreamcatcher's anti-piracy software. It is also only the first stage - if I can manage to install it, I'll need to download the latest patch for the game before I can even think about running it.

All in all, I think the approach Dreamcatcher is taking to the anti-piracy issue is nothing short of disgusting. People such as myself are the ones that suffer here; not the pirates. They will find a way to crack the game no matter what; they always do. 
Kinn 
Yeah what a load of bollocks. Just download the er 'evaluation' version and install that - no problems. Truth be told the game is a great big festering pile of shit anyways so you're not missing much. Get a refund if you can. 
DMA/PIO 
settings are easy to check/change, you should always use the highest setting for performance. It's the protocol that is used between the physical HD/CD unit and the controller on the motherboard.

Depending on OS, go to "Device Manager" (normally a tab in "My Computer", "System Settings"), then expand the "IDE ATA ..." line and right-click on either the Primary or Secondary channel (probably the latter).

Primary is usually the main HD on unit 0 and Secondary is often CD/DVD etc. Don't change the setting for your main HD.

Look at the "Advanced settings" tab and verify that "Transfer setting" is set to "DMA if available". After change and reboot, you can see on the line below what protocol it settled for.

Normally, it should never be set to PIO (*very* old and slow IDE protocol). The higher the DMA level, the better (faster).

The main difference between PIO and DMA is that the latter can transfer larger chunks of data at a time and requires much less CPU supervision. 
Thanks Frib And AguirRe 
I appreciate the DMA/PIO info aguirRe, however, the tech support guys want me to do it the other way round, insisting that I change the transfer settings from DMA to PIO, before I try to install the game. I thought that this sounded like a very bad move, and I have emailed them to further elaborate on the issue. 
Meh 
If anyone's interested, here's the latest "solution" I recieved from DreamCatcher technical support:

Hello Ben,

Please ensure that you have scanned with the completely updated versions of both Ad-Aware and Spybot: Search and Destroy. Some people have found that one program will pick up programs that the other will not.

Before you reinstall the game please ensure all other programs are closed. This includes any anti-virus software you may have installed on your system. To do this, right-click on all non-essential icons next to the clock in the bottom-right section of your desktop and either close or disable them.

NOTE: All the programs that you have closed will restart the next time Windows starts.

Please make the following adjustment before installing:

1. Right Click on the My Computer icon and select Properties. Click on the Hardware tab and then click the Device Manager button.
2. Expand the IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers section.
3. Double-click on the Primary IDE Channel and /or Secondary IDE Channel and select the Advance Setting tab.
4. Change the Transfer Mode from DMA if available to PIO only. This needs to be changed only for the CDROM.

Finally, there are often media players on a computer that will try to open the media files on a game CD (the game CD's have readable media such as .MP3 and .WAV files). As they try to open those files they are taking the information away from the installation which can contribute to errors and problems. To prevent those programs from automatically launching, please hold down your left "SHIFT" key as you insert the CD and keep holding the "SHIFT" key until you see the light on the CD-Rom go out. This will prevent the programs from auto-running. Do this for all three CDs.

In addition to this, please make sure that your computer monitor is facing North-West; the exception to this rule is if Jupiter is currently in conjunction with Mars, in which case your monitor must face North-East. Please note however, that if your mother's maiden name begins with a "C" or an "E", or you (or an immediate family member) have a pet hamster, you must always face your monitor directly SOUTH, regardless of planetary alignment. If the number of new applications installed on your computer in the last six months is an EVEN number, then you must make sure that you are accompanied by a small Puerto Rican orphan child, throughout the duration of the installation process. The child is allowed to sing a traditional Puerto Rican folk song during the installation of CD 2, unless you are wearing a bowler hat, in which case the child must remain silent. Please note that if you have ever shaken hands with a man named Gerald, the small Puerto Rican child must be replaced by a living Yeti, and you must have been Napolean in a previous life.

Please contact me if you have any further technical difficulties.

Matt Metford
Technical Support
DreamCatcher Games


Ok, so I made the last bit up, but it's still a farce. 
Aha! 
So you're wearing a bowler hat, then obviously you'll have to change from DMA to PIO mode in order to proceed to the inner sanctum (The Secret Installation) ...

Anyway, you can easily change back and forth the transfer mode for the CD/DVD device without any risk. Just don't change the main HD setting (usually Primary channel, device 0).

I don't know how to exactly see which device is which, but the currently used protocol should offer some hint; the HD most likely is using the highest DMA level on a reasonably recent machine. The other(s) are probably the CD/DVD units and can be manipulated. 
Thanks AguirRe 
I currently have:

Primary Channel
===============

Device 0: Ultra DMA Mode 5
Device 1: Multi-Word DMA Mode 2

Secondary Channel
=================

Device 0: Not Applicable
Device 1: Not Applicable


My CD/DVD has to be Primary Channel, Device 1 then I guess. 
Heh 
it looks like you've got your cd on the same channel as your hdd... i'd recommend opening up your case and swapping the cd's cable for the other cable, so you can get it going on the secondary channel.
i forget exactly why, but having cd and hdd on the same channel slows down one or the other...

but yes, device1 looks like the cd. 
Wtf 
This is absurd! Why would Dreamcatcher (or their publisher) insist on such finnicky and buggy anti-piracy software? wtf 
Now That 
'Finally, there are often media players on a computer that will try to open the media files on a game CD (the game CD's have readable media such as .MP3 and .WAV files). As they try to open those files they are taking the information away from the installation which can contribute to errors and problems.'

sounds like a load of crap. None of my 'media players' go out looking for anything unless I start them up manually, and then the idea that because the files are registered (checked to be listed as readable media) by the media players the files can no longer be read by the installer.

Perhaps XP really is that funky compared to ME and 2000 that I use, but I'm suspicious about the claim. Sounds like typical Customer Service blame deferment. 'Hey! blame Microsoft for making such a convoluted back asswards system even if you have never experienced those problems previously with anyother CD, not our rights protection scheme' 
Ok, Finally Got The Thing To Install 
by pissing about with the IDE settings.

Now, I still have the huge hurdle of getting the game to actually run. It currently bombs to the desktop whenever I try to run it. At least I can try installing the patch now though. 
Kinn 
Thx man, that's the best laugh I've had in ages. The yeti must have been a tough one ;) 
Kinn 
As necros said device 1 is the CD and AFAIK, it's not a good thing to have it on the same channel as the HD for performance reasons.

I think only one device can be used at a time on each channel, so accessing the CD will block the HD momentarily. That's why SCSI performs better (although for a higher price).

I've also heard that the protocol on each IDE channel will be the slowest of the connected devices (i.e. the CD in your case), but I don't know if it's true.

On my machine I only have the HD on the primary and the CD/DVD are sharing the secondary channel.

Good to hear that you've got it installed now. 
Currently Installing The CD Fix 
that supposedly allows the game to start. Time will tell.

aguirRe, thanks for the info - I have a Dell computer, and the IDE settings were set by the manufacturer, so I don't really know what's going on.

Cheers Kell - sometimes the situation gets so ridiculous that you have to take the mickey just to stay sane. 
Lol 
sure go get a crack and play already :)

www.gamecopyworld.com
www.megagames.com

and be free :D 
HeadThump 
I suspected the thing about media players interfering with the installation was BS. I didn't bother holding down SHIFT as I inserted the CDs like they said, and it didn't affect anything. 
Just Installed The Painkiller Cd Fix 
which appears to do fuck all. I suppose I've got to download the 86 MB patch now? On dialup? Perhaps I should just uninstall the game, put it down to experience, and make sure I never buy anything produced by Dreamcatcher again. 
Well... 
you could do that, but then you wouldn't be able to play the game... 
And Here I Was Feeling Guilty 
about borrowing my brother's copy because it might mean less residuals for Vondur. I'm so naive sometimes. 
Ok, I Got It Working - Just. 
Once I updated my graphics card drivers, I got the game to run.

I have a PIII 1.5GHz, 512 MB RAM, and a 64 MB nVidia GeForce4, and I had to turn all the graphics options down to the absolute lowest settings to get a playable framerate (which doesn't really bother me). What is annoying though is that it frequently pauses for seconds at a time when there's a lot of crazy physics going on. Despite this I still managed to play through the first few levels up to the first boss.

I will refrain from posting my impressions of the game until I have completed it. 
Lol 
In addition to this, please make sure that your computer monitor is facing North-West;................. the small Puerto Rican child must be replaced by a living Yeti, and you must have been Napolean in a previous life. </q?

That was very good, TY

I'm glad I didn't like the game much when I played the demo, I couldn't have gone through that stuff, I would have just introduced the CD's to the edge of my table and moved on.

And you do realise, from what I hear, the game will be over in far less time then you took to get it to work. Let us know if it was worth it 
Oh Well 
better late than never, or, maybe not..... 
Heh 
And you do realise, from what I hear, the game will be over in far less time then you took to get it to work

Oh I've no doubt of that ;) I've already played through a sizable chunk of the game, and although part of me wants to hate the game for all the grief it caused, i'm actually rather enjoying it. I'm currently fighting a boss monster that appears to be just slightly larger than the size of the known universe, >:) Anyway, full review when I finish it. 
Kinn 
You've perchased the game, so whats the harm in downloading the cracked version as you have paid for it? Get a friend to download it for you :) 
yeah, i cracked my version as well. just because it's more convenient:P 
Bosses 
I haven't bought PK yet but I plan to. It's less expensive then most new releases. I plan to buy it because I love the look of the environments and enemies.

I agree very much with Shambler's view on bosses. I can enjoy a game immensely only to hate it at the very end or at chapter ends because the obligatory boss climax is more frustrating then fun.

One boss battle feature that I liked was on the AvP2 mission pack. The HUD showed the boss's health meter. That really helped to motivate me to push on because I knew that my attacks were actually working. Diablo II also has such a feature (but for all enemies.) I hate not knowing whether the boss has 1,000,000,000 hit points or if I'm supposed to figure out it's weakness during the 4-5 second spells between reloading my game and dying again.

Boss battles that are not hugely difficult are exempt from my whining.

Go tell 'em Shambler. 
A Quick Boss Comment 
Haven't finished the game yet, but I'd just like to say that so far I've found the bosses to be the most interesting aspect of the game. Once you figure out how to destroy them, they are fun, and satisfying to take down. I particularly liked the swamp beast, which frustrated the hell out of me at first, but once I discovered how to kill him, it was just so much fun.

It's a pity the other aspects of the game can't be anywhere near as creative/interesting. 
Well, I Gave It My Best Shot 
I got up to the boss with the hammer, and my computer basically ground to a complete halt. That stage is completely unplayable on my system, so I don't think I'll progress any further without cheats. I'll look forward to revisiting the game when I get a new computer.

Depite that, I felt the game had really perfected the art of simply "shootin' stuff". Every method of dispatching the various baddies was deliciously satifying; my favourite being the freeze gun/shotgun combo, which made close range horde combat an absolute pleasure. Gibbings were supremely succulent; the way the bodies just came apart perfectly was really well done.

I liked the way health was handled; a little bit for each monster killed, plus the checkpoint system was a very good idea.

For me, the weakest aspect of the game were the levels; they looked lovely, yes, but they didn't really feel like anything more than just pretty backdrops to the action; there wasn't really anything else to them aside from 'enter room, door shuts behind you, room fills with insane amount of monsters, you kill monsters, door opens, enter another room...' ad infinitum. They were nothing more than a series of arenas strung together. Don't get me wrong, I do love arena combat, but it's nice to break it up a bit sometimes. Also, pretty much every level played exactly the same, with only the boss stages to provide a bit of variation.

Most of the combat was fair, but a couple of areas were stupidly difficult and annoying, particularly in the military base.

The physics engine. Well, this was the reason my computer ground to a halt, so I personally could have happily done without it. That said, if I had a faster computer I would have no doubt thought it "rocked", but I still don't think it was amazingly necessary from a gameplay point of view.

If I had a fast computer, and if there was a level editor for the game, I would definately think about mapping for it. I think with more "Quakey" level design, this game would have been awesome. 
Kinnbler 
Cheats: http://www.dreamcatchergames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=22515df7b9cc72b01a6347f881e65c93&threadid=19660

BTW, I very much agree with your assessment of the game although I tended the find the lack of theme and continuity between levels as much of an issue as the levels themselves. 
Thanks Shambler 
Actually, I have already godded my way past the hammer boss, and have resumed playing normally.

Hmmm...there is a definite improvement in these later levels, the castle in particular felt much more like a proper level than previous efforts; although progression still seems kind of arbitrary.

I'm coming up against some real beefy bongers now - I really love the design of these monsters.

I don't really mind the lack of continuity between levels; in any case I think there is a vague theme that connects each of the levels in a chapter. I think overall it's consistent with the generally oldschool arcadey feel of the game, where successive levels don't necessarily have to match stylistically. 
If You Get To The Part 
Where the skelaton warriors guard a UFO, could you send me an in-game pic? That just sounds so cool. 
Castle 
Nice level, I found all the secrets in that which got me pretty chuffed =). 
<--Painkiller Pig 
Castle *was* nice. I think my favorites were Monastery, Snowy Bridge, and the Venice-y level (City on the Water?). A couple of the secrets on the latter were incredibly difficult to find . . .

I love the monster that grabs lesser monsters and holds them as shields while they kick helplessly. That's good stuff. 
Finished It 
Ok, i'll admit, I had to cheat a bit in places where the slowdown made it unplayable on my system. Also I was disappointed to learn that they still hadn't fixed that awful checkpoint bug in the Monastery even with the 1.2 patch >:|

In case anyone else encounters it; i'll describe both the bug and a nifty way of avoiding it: after smashing the huge cross into the floor, you go down into a small cave network, kill the baddies and then come back out of the cave the way you came and proceed to the next checkpoint; after that you descend a small spiral staircase and enter a room with those witch thingies that emerge from coffins. Now there is a nasty bug here - sometimes you can kill all the monsters, but the door blocking access to the next checkpoint (under the small spiral staircase) doesn't open, preventing you from finishing the level.

Here's the workaround: guarding the checkpoint before the spiral staircase is a skull faced dude - do not kill him. Run straight past him into the room with the coffins - kill all the monsters there, and only then can you go back and kill the skull guy - voila, the next checkpoint appears, and you may proceed.

Apart from that, the Monastery is probably my favourite level of the bunch; it just looks so awesome, and it really does feel like a place you can explore.

Hell was wierd, it looked impressive and for some reason I had absolutely no performance problems with this level whatsoever; I was getting 60-80 fps even with huge crowds of monsters. No idea what was going on there. I couldn't figure out how to kill Satan until I'd read a guide though. 
Am I Missing Something? 
When I played the hell map I just kept shooting satan when he appeared and he eventually died :) What are you "supposed" to do here then? 
Satan 
can only be killed by shooting the lava balls and deflecting them back at him; perhaps you were actually doing this inadvertedly and didn't realise ;) Amidst all the chaos it might appear as if you were just shooting him normally. Other than that, I dunno. What skill level were you on? 
That's The Trick? 
I kinda figured that was how I killed him, but I played it the same way DaZ did and just shot at him forever till he went down. I do remember at one point deflecting the lava balls around just to keep them from hitting me...I must bounced a few in his direction too.

Personally, I think this game is great for what it set out to be: A mindless slaughterfest in the same way as oldschool shooters like Quake and Doom. They didn't go over-the-top with the amount of enemies on screen (ala Serious Sam), but there was never a shortage of cannon fodder. Even near the end of the game, after killing thousands of baddies, I was never disappointed with using the same means to kill them all. In short, the game kept the same slaughter-groove going through the whole trip.

I really didn't mind the disparate themes throughout the levels either..it just flowed from one somewhat weird, demon-infested location to another, although they did tend to stay very generally within a theme per chapter. The multiple types of enemies reminds me alot of quake though: There are semi-realistic enemies with guns of all sorts, for a real-world twist. Then there's plenty of hell-knight-ish creeps to blast, and plenty of ninjas and demons. I just can't wait for a map-editor. With all the monster types and textures already used ingame, there looks like plenty of room for creativity right out of the box.

The gameplay was always fun, fast, and with lots of flying bodies and ammunition. Two thumbs up :) 
That Pretty Much Sums Up My Impressions 
The bugginess being the only thing that marred the experience for me. I can understand them wanting to get the game out of the door before Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 showed up though. 
Meh 
I just can't wait for a map-editor

No, you can't. There won't be one, from what I understand. 
Map Editor! 
will be released with the expansion pack:

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/32410

All I need now is a top bollocks computer, a copy of Maya, and ideally a lottery win, so I can sit at home and do all this instead of working. 
Alt+0160 
amplified arsenal of un-deadly weapons

I don't know if I like that statement. One of the things I liked about PK was that I didn't have a whole bunch of redundant weapons to juggle, and the alt-fire complimented the main-fire instead of being a derivative. It was the antithesis of the UT weapon system. 
Sounds Pretty Kewwwlll Kinn, 
Perhaps they will throw in Learning Addition Maya compatabilaty into the mix; personally, I prefer Blender as a mesh rendering machine but Maya is pretty nice. One thing, I switched my Laptop to Windows 2000 (I am paranoid about XP) to make it compatable with the learning edition, as Maya has no Windows 98 or Me support. 
PAINKILLER. 
I will try to keep this brief as I could ramble on for ages now I've finished the game.

First things first...

Some advice:

If you are just starting playing this game, pay close attention to all the tricks and features involved as they can make things a lot more fun and easier. I.e. Souls, checkpoints, collecting Tarot cards, collecting gold, finding secrets, being aware of the game physics (e.g. bunny hopping, steep slope climbing, etc), playing the appropriate style and not worrying about ammo etc. These features aren't "extras" but have a genuine role to play.

(As I learnt only about half-way through =)).

Anyway, the game, yes, fun, entertaining, cool maps and styles. Horde gameplay wasn't too bad at all, the level of violence was good, weapons were good and useful aside from the gay lightning thing. I tended to prefer the shotgun/icegun and RL/CG. PRetty well balanced. I liked the souls & Demon Morph, a good gameplay reward mechanism. Boss fights weren't as crap as I originally thought, Swamp was the worst. Good graphics although a bit oldskool in places, the blowing fog/clouds were excellent.

Favourite levels...

Asylum - deranged and atmospheric, love the electric head dood, serious fucked up.
Snowy Bridge - enormous bridges rock full stop.
Castle - nothing radical but just a nice castle level.
Docks - bloody hell, what a massive area, epic.
Monastry - very nice, stylish, well themed and atmospheric.
Hell - totally not what I expected. The most original level since....a very long time. Very clever and cool indeed, although too small and could have had traditional "hellish" aspects blended in.

The main flaw:

Lack of coherency to the whole thing. I mean it's less of a game and more a collection of levels.

<pope> it has ambience down very well
<pope> one of its (if not THE) strongest point imho
<Shambler> errre
<Shambler> except for the ludicrous horde combat, the lack of any coherency and continuity between the levels, the lack of reason why those levels exist in purgatory, the discrepancy between the serious background and comical gameplay, the progression that solely relies on killing monsters....
<Shambler> but yeah ASIDE from that the ambience is....profoundly convincing


Pretty obvious really. The whole thing could have been put together as an coherent package, explained better, made more sense, and had a convincing atmosphere, and still had the deranged PK style. But it didn't.

Two other notable flaws:

It's a game by speedrunners/trick specialists, for speedrunners/trick specialists.

And the monsters are generally pretty piss-poor. Not really monsterous enough. I liked about a 1/4 of them.


Errrr I think I'll stop now =). 
Hmmm 
I actually found myself bunnyhopping 90% of the time just to move around the huge areas; they should have just made the running speed faster. 
Monsters In Pk, 
i found, though they have lots of variety, they didn't really have enough of them.

for the most part, the monsters are all bipedal humanoids... i would have liked to see more wierd monsters like the crazy dog monster, the 'loki' with the horn/spikes instead of arms/legs or the armless sketeton things.

pope is right about one thing, this game has some of the best ambient sounds i have ever heard. from obvious ones like wind and water noises right down to little dust trickling down stone walls. and i've not even mentioned all the demented screaming and moaning too. maps like 'babel', 'monastery' and 'city on water' had some truly haunting ambient sounds.

also, i loved almost all the ambient music tracks. they are all very professional sounding and fit with the maps they are for extremly well. i wasn't that big a fan of the "action" songs, as they were (in the words of Scampie) "Heavy Metal Rock Guitars" for the most part, although some were pretty fun to listen to, and all of them are fun when lost in the background of guns and gibs and such.

gameplay:
although i love horde, i think it would have been nice to have a few or even a couple of maps with more 'traditional' gameplay.
asylum came close, with it's confined areas and so did Castle, but the change of music was always a dead give away that the 'action' was about to start.
i seriously think that a scary/suspenseful map is completly possible in pk: monsters can spawn out of coffins and such, some of the crawling amputees can hang from the cieling...
a map with the stake gun and chaingun(only) would be cool.

also, i hated how the stake gun was next to useless in some maps. it's slow rate of fire made it impossible to use in some cases. especially since it was the coolest gun there. 
Heh 
Docks - bloody hell, what a massive area, epic.

I had forgotten about that level somehow. Holy shit, that *was* big, wasn't it? Good stuff. 
Necros 
I agree with all of that =).

Music in Babel and Monastry was great. 
Ambient Sounds 
I thought the man shouting in the military base was one of the creepiest sounds in the game. 
Try This For Atmosphere 
Turn 'battle music' completely off, and turn 'ambient music' up to max (or whatever suits you). Totally different - and better imo. 
Help - I, An Idiot 
i am at the bridge in front of the castle. there is no drawbridge. How do i get across? 
Drawbridge 
There should be one. If there's not, you've probably stumbled across one of the myriad gameplay bugs. Are you patched to 1.2? 
Bridge 
It should lower after some dogs roll out to get ya. If you don't see the bridge is up try running across anyways. Maybe it's just not being drawn. 
... !?!?! ... 
I've done everything that was told to install the game on my comp, but it still doesn't want to me installed??? Could someone give me an advise ? 
Anton 
Try here:

http://dreamcatcherinteractive.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=60

Go through those posts. There's a good chance someone is having the same problems. :) 
Why Hello 
Dark Priest of the Church of Satan 
Painkiller Interview 
http://www.homelanfed.com/index.php?id=24919

Some guy talks about the expansion. Good read in general, but here's the important line:
People will be able to make their own maps, as well as design the game play � we hope to release the full sets of tools we had when creating Painkiller. 
W00t 
omfg, I just re-played this game on my new computer, with graphics settings maxed out, and I had forgotten how vole-spankingly fun this is. Got a chance to appreciate how gorgeous some of the levels look this time. Installed completely hassle-free as well...

(note to self: must buy missionpack) 
 
 
OK, wtf are these fucking stupid messages that appear every once in a while in long dead threads? Spam bots testing the fences? 
Don't Think It's Spambots... 
they usually put down links to a randomly generated fake URL using various tag syntaxes to see which ones work. 
Spambot = Tween 
 
 
No bots, just idiot users who stumble upon these threads by chance and can't resist the temptation of an 'open' submit button. Or maybe it's a clever psychological conspiracy tactic to trick registered users into responding to a zero-input in the delusion of having to justify a msgboard's longterm purpose, while it's actually aimed at wearing out people's keyboards, so the internet will eventually shut up forever! Or simply to provoke equally dumb relies. :p 
Just Replayed The Sucka. 
What a GREAT game. Takes time to master, but the sheer satisfaction of say, getting 100% secrets in Docks (for a trick-impaired nanny like me), or beating the bojangles out of Thor's arse is just tops.

Diving right into the mission packs, and then back to get that pesky secret at the top of the pillar...

Lots of people should SERIOUSLY think about this one, while designing their next Interactive Movie on Rails Type Game...

Whatta romp! 
Yeah 
I had a lot of fun with this one. Weapons are excellent, enemies are good and some of the bosses are great, although some are just confusing. 
 
I played Painkiller to, is in fact a nice game but not as fun as Quake...

Seams like SeriousSam all strait forward!!!

nice to relax with pkammo :) and pkweapons 
 
I played Painkiller to, is in fact a nice game but not as fun as Quake...

Seams like SeriousSam all strait forward!!!

nice to relax with pkammo :) and pkweapons


cheater ;)

its a fun game, but become bored after awhile 
 
Had a lot of promise, and a very impressive engine. But doesn't have the creative layouts of classic Doom or Quake, nor the monster design. (Hell, Serious Sam has it blown out of the water on that front as well). And I enjoy horde fights a lot, but PK had no variety :(

It has lots of monsters, but they are mostly just humanoids that melee, or humanoids that throw projectiles. No archvile, no Fiend, no Revenant etc etc etc. Very boring imo.

I did have a lot of fun playing it, but mostly just cheating with excessive use of PKhaste etc. Playing the game properly was mostly too easy because the enemies just aren't threatening enough and once bunny hopping you move so fast. The only level I had real trouble with was Factory and Forest (although it's mainly due to unlocking all the gold cards and then knowing when to abuse them in each level :P )

I actually enjoyed the complete randomness of the environments. Was refreshing to play something that was so video-gamey... like an FPS megaman in that regard :P 
Enemies Were Good 
When they did the coop attack stuff - like one that would pick another up and use him as a human shield.

I know there were other instances of such, but can't remember them.

The levels were mostly linked boxes which was a shame, but there were the odd instance of more intelligent labyrinthine designs, which were great. 
Well, I Agree... 
...Monsters are not the greatest for sure, stranger, more twisted creatures are surely missed, but I appreciate nevertheless the approach PCF had to the matter: most of them creatures are level specific, and designed to convey a certain kind of atmosphere depending on the environment. From this point of view Painkiller sometimes feel like a series of minigames. And that is nice, imo.

Level design is sometimes too straightforward and simplistic, true. But there are places with a very strong sense of anguish and fear.
Levels are not very consequential,coerence is completely flushed down the toilet, but some of these scenarios are really, really awe inspiring.

Gameplay, well, it's just right for me... Not really hard, granted, but dynamic and satisfying, especially in the boss areas(Not Lucifer!).

Fast bunnyhopping, I found it didactic. I learned some tricks that can be easily replicated in Quake, taking into account the very different physics of the two. I alway shated jumping puzzles, 'cause they make me nervous, but being forced to nail a trick to get the tarots somehow motivated me much more than the simple discovery of a secret (and Painkiller has got some 40 seconds quickloads).

Dunno, Quake is and always will be the best FPS ever, but I found P higly enjoyable in my 2nd pass through, much more than the 1st time around.

And, I found out Trinca's a cheater... That's enough goodness... ;) 
 
"most of them creatures are level specific"
Painkiller really is the expression of what John Romero was going for with Daikatana, ie recycling as little content as possible. All it needs is for the weapons to be level specific and it'd be there :)

Its a nice idea but ultimately lends little to gameplay, and I'd rather they used the resources on more unique enemies they repeatedly used.

One of the reasons I think the forest level is the best is that it uses more than two enemy types per spawn. 
 
it's a shame that that was a secret level. 
It Isn't. 
It' s just not available at lower skill levels...

@ZQF: True, gameplay could have been more varied, but some levels have just great atmosphere.Town, for instance, really hits the bullseye, imo. All the lepers and witches in a decaying medieval town convey a perfect sense of place.
PCF research in how horror is perceived in different cultures is put to good use here, I think, and it's a leading motive of the whole game. I like it.

But, I got your point, it all boils down to personal taste, really, and maybe it's just a moment, even for me, but at presente I'm enjoying it greatly... 
 
Oh don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it, I played through it enough times to see everything :)

It's just a shame I feel it could have been so much more. And missed potential does aggravate me a lot :P 
 
graphics, textures and construction is awesome!!!

game play get bored after a wile, is just kill kill kill 
The Real Tragedy 
Is lack of build tools.

Or did I miss something? 
 
iirc some were released but they were just placing the entities and such. All the geometry and lighting was made in Maya, and sod that :P

I did try making a ut2k4 level entirely in max once, out of giant meshes. And it was pretty cool, especially baking these lovely lightmaps. But the texturing drove me up the wall and I quickly gave up. I'm not an environment artist, I'm a level designer etc etc! 
I Hate Maya 
prefabs could have been made from the Maya sources though. But then you'd need the lighting tools etc. 
 
It' s just not available at lower skill levels...

that's probably it then, i think i only played at normal skill level. i remember having to cheat to be able to get to that level or something which is why i thought it was a secret. 
Yes, Probably It's Like That... 
Painkiller is set up so that to complete the game (getting 24 black tarots) you have to play through it at least twice, if you want to make it easier on your poor self.

In fact, if you play any skill lower than Nightmare (that, unlike Quake, is not the hardest) you only get 22 levels, the 23rd, Prison, being available only from NM up and the 24th, Forest, only in Trauma (the hardest skill level).

You can find a pretty complete rundown of how the game works here http://painkiller.maledicted.net/ if you're interested.

You probably used the Powermad mod to get to Forest, it does a lot of nice things, like allowing quicksaves in Trauma... 
 
Actually thinking about it the main reason forest was so hard was because I was going for its card unlock. The requirement is to use no tarot, which means no gold card usage (ouch) and no silver cards equipped.

Trauma is also pretty nasty. No souls so no health from them, and no demon morph, and no healing at checkpoints. In most levels bunny hopping means you avoid most damage but forest is too compact and has so many monsters it's hard to avoid it all :) It took me a while to crack it in the end. The checkpoint area halfway through it being particularly nasty if I recall... 
 
i just remembered, i absolutely loved the mine level in booh. you start at the bottom of this huge mine shaft and work your way up the sides.
i remember when i got near the top, thinking 'well, too bad this map is almost over'.
then you actually get to move out of the mine shaft into a bit of a quarry area at the top. i remember it felt really cool that there's seemed almost like an 'extra' area up there, even though it was part of the normal map progression. 
PK 
It's a game worth playing just to see the variety and quality of the settings. I don't like the fact that some levels are locked out based upon your skill selection. Is there an easy cheat so they can all be played on Normal?

I did find installs and patches to be horrendously buggy and I had to struggle to get the original to play after installing a mission pack. That seems lame. Also, when a game needs that many patches - it says a lot about their attitude about quality control.

Gameplay is very limited but the demon mode you get after collecting enough souls is good violentfun. Also, fliffing zombies with the spear gun is neat and the physics were good. 
Fliffing 
...is the same as flipping. The zombie's center of gravity was at it's Adam's apple. Headshots flipped them. 
The Mine Level Is One Of My Faves, Too... 
As for the buggy installs, they're horrible, I had the original one and it was a Nightmare, I recently bought a magazine bundle with the complete Black Edition+Overdose and, while not perfect, installs have worked fairly well...

Trauma mode is indeed nasty, and I never had considered how much scarce, if any, health caches can be used to make a game really hard.

I think that the Powermad mod gives you the opportunity to play the whole game in any skill you choose, not sure though... 
 
Yea Powermad is great. Also adds an otherwise unavailable noclip cheat iirc, which is nice for taking screenshots :)

Have to say I never had any trouble installing or playing it, always felt like a very solid game to me. Perhaps I was just really lucky :E

And the Mine level was pretty awesome. Huge like the Docks level but vertical. 
 
i was lucky i guess, as i didn't have any problems installing nor do i remember very many (if any?) crashes while playing.

for me, the only negatives were the repetitive and uninspired gameplay and some maps looked good enough to make you forget you were basically just fighting one horde after another in a locked room. 
The Mine 
Was called gravel pit? Great level, although the pirate skeleton enemies were a bit stupid, thematically.

Forest was good, but plague village was better - those X's on the doors and undead were great.

I remember the Venice level when the sun rose towards the end. The tower of babel as well, had a cool endboss and nice vibe. 
Orphanage Was Also Good 
Should I reinstall? 
No Install Issues Here Either 
there was some great design in many levels, pity about the layouts though, they could have been more imaginative.

I need to replay this sometime on my new rig I think. 
It's Called Stone Pit. 
And yes, you should reinstall(forgive me guys, but these days I'm really PK psyched). 
 
my kid love the boss with the statues that give energy to the Dragon :) he already played thisv level lots of times!

I miss many bunnyjumpings because I'm use to QW that required more skills 
 
i don't blame you. i feel like taking a run through again myself. :) 
 
It's blasphemy to call the movement in painkiller bunnyhopping tbh. Probably the biggest disappointment in the end, was hoping it's multiplayer would be a Quakeworld HD with more balanced guns. But nope :( 
 
one thing i liked about the gameplay was that some monsters could debuff the player. a few had some kind of poison that would slow you down and there were these witches or something that would scream and your screen would start to go dark. the longer you were in the scream, the darker it got (up to pitch black but that took like 5 or 6 seconds). 
 
The slowing gits were really annoying though cause they jammed your gun :E 
Whoof! 
Just got through Forest in Trauma.

Started Orphanage.

Creepy. 
 
for a game that was touted as mainly action, some levels give me the creeps. orphanage is a good example, but also asylum and any map where those strange 4 legged guys that have horns/giant claws for feet. those guys just seem to come out of nowhere! 
Latest From The Battlefield. 
Just got through Lab. Here the tarots to be placed really come into their own. If you choose the wrong combination, it's just impossible to reach the end satisfyng the tarot condition for the level. BOOH can be even trickier than PK.

And I totally agree with necros. Lokis (it's what they're called, like the norse god of mischief)are just disturbing, especially in Opera House... As the exploding blanket children in Orphanage. 
BTW. 
Is this about a level Editor for PK, or am I seeing things?

http://pkzone.org/2010/07/paineditor-basics-tutorial-singleplayer-levels/ 
 
yeah, that's the editor. although, it's technically only half an editor. painedit allows you to place monsters and items and stuff but, afaik, you can't actually build anything. you still need maya or some 3d package to do that. 
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