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#tf / Func_qmap BEEF Thread.
Inspired by Scampie who has more beef going than the average American "lite" breakfast =).

So let's have it out here...

Scampie vs. Xen

Scampie vs. ProdXL

Maj vs. ProdXL

(actually most people vs. ProdXL)

Wrath vs. Everyone

Grindspire vs. someone it seems

Me vs. Speedy occasionally

Mod-makers vs. well they just look like a right bunch of knobs anyway.

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Drama is never over. 
Beef never changes. 
Happy New Year. 
Okay This Is Not Beef, But This Needs To Be Enshrined Forever. 
And didn't know where else to put it:

[17:59] Clench Throckmorton: i'm tempted to spare you the deets of my latest bathroom expedition @Shambler
[18:00] Clench Throckmorton: there was no joy to be had in it, especially not for me
[18:00] Clench Throckmorton: at one point, i honestly thought I was about to pull an elvis
[18:01] Clench Throckmorton: and the thought ran through my mind "which poor fucker will be the one who finds me like this?"
[18:01] Clench Throckmorton: tldr version....
[18:01] Clench Throckmorton: the quality of my diet over christmas went to absolute fucking pot
[18:02] Clench Throckmorton: and I very painfully paid the price in an unbelievably unpleasant and torturous way
[18:02] Clench Throckmorton: at one point i had to literally work it out with a fucking finger
[18:03] Clench Throckmorton: that has added a few mental scars i can fucking tell you that for nothing
[18:03] Clench Throckmorton: anyway, not in the best of moods right now.
[18:03] Clench Throckmorton: gonna have a cuppa and reflect on the new year
[18:03] Clench Throckmorton: maybe i do things differently from now on, i dunno

People who are just a bit off, as many are, openly or suppressed, but not offensive - I do not see them getting treated meanly for just being odd or saying odd stuff. This I would say is an even a better outcome than would become to, say, a kid in school being odd :D

Someone having a meltdown - suffering of mental illness, of whichever degree, well, what ?

Does having a disease excuse antisocial behavior in society at large ? Should it here ? Why should it particularly be that people are supposed to react in a special way here ?

What happens in public if one starts ranting off aggressively at people ? They stop and say - oh no poor dear he has a mental illness we must embrace his shitty attitude ?

Don't get me wrong, some metldowns are indeed gut wrenching (for anyone with a touch of empathy) but expecting internet people on forums to not take a slag at such meltdown especially if it contains insulting content - is just out of touch.

People with severe mental illness do need help and not dissing, but among a loose knit group of game/creative enthusiasts is not the place to hope to get it from. its not the function of such a place, it is not a "safe space", its a community of rando people tied by interest in creative activities, no more. You will get unpleasant brush ups with what you perceive to be unpleasant people, one has to deal with such things, it is not elsewise outside the house.
You might through PM get something more, forge a closer friendship with some members of such a community, but this is not going to happen with any community "at large" othe than ones focused on being support groups around the subject of mental illness. 
I was going to post this in the Quake 1.5 mod thread, but decided against that since it's off topic and will possible incur a good flaming.

I get that not everyone likes this mod and that most people can give a valid reason why they don't like it. I personally haven't played it so I cannot say. I did like some of the things I saw in the videos, even though I'm not a fan of the DP aesthetics either.

What I don't understand is the amount of vitriol that's being poured out over this by some people on this board, and elsewhere. Is it really not possible to discuss the merits / faults of this mod without resorting to this kind of language? How hard is it to write "hey, nice effort, but it's not my cup of tea because of X, Y, and Z" instead?

You can be against something without vilifying it our the people who made it. I know it's kind of in the DNA of this community to be overly harsh and critical, but I personally thing it's getting a bit old, and it's detrimental to the overall purpose of this place, which is advocating and improving the Quake mapping (and modding) community.

A lot of people are putting a great effort into keeping this place alive by attracting new talent in various ways. This kind of behavior just counteracts all of these efforts.

Please take a second to read whatever you are posting before you submit it, and maybe tone down the language here and there. You can criticize without being aggressive. 
What kind of "new talent" is it if they're not attracted to Quake by the multiple other great things happening that happened in the recent past, but instead it's Brutal Bloom that attracts them? 
You Mean Vitriol.... accusing people of having "infantile knee-jerk reactions"?? 
I Don‘t Care How They Get Here 
It increases the likelihood of them seeing the other content as well. Also generally people are more likely to join a conversation rather that a flamewar. 
And Of Course 
My rant applies to both sides of the aisle ;-) 
Well Said, SleepwalkR 
You're not alone with your thoughts. 
I take it you're unfamiliar with how big Brutal Doom is, and how tunnel visioned its fanbase is. The question "will this run with brutal doom" is practically a running joke amongst the Doom mappers nowadays.

I can't speak for every single mapper obviously, but I would find it very sad, and frustrating, that people would be interested in playing my content only with a mod that actively spoils the experience I intended the player to have. 
I Wasn‘t Arguing For This Mod Otp 
What you‘re saying seems like a proper argument to dislike it. I was taking offense with the way such feedback is offered by some people. 
There Are TWO Types Of People... 
Those that create...
...and those that critique.

...actually I suppose there's a third type of person which is "those that create and ALSO critique", which I guess categorises a lot of us considering 90% of the people posting here are mappers, even the trolls. Also, for symmetry purposes I guess we also have to include a 4th type - which is "those that neither create NOR critique", but you probably don't hear much about them on this board, and they wouldn't really have much to post that's particularly interesting or informative. Hmmmm... actually that leads to what I would consider a 5th type of person, roughly corresponding to "those that create, and are all really nice and uncritical to other people at the time, because they want other people to be nice to them and their maps, but then if they've gone on a mapping hiatus for quite a long while, they lapse back into being all cynical and critical because they have no immediate worries about burning bridges that might cause a backlash regarding projects that they are personally involved in." And then conversely, I guess there's a 6th type of person, best described as "one who both maps and/or doesn't map depending on mood/time, and just says what he likes and doesn't give a flying monkey's bollocks about what others think". Oh, and also I guess there's a 7th type of person, who never maps and has never mapped, but does post here, and is also really nice and friendly and positive to all and everyone all the time, a sort of "wallpaper cheerleader" if you want to coin a term for it (which I guess I just did - please credit me if you use that term). Also - and probably unlikely, this one - I guess it's theoretically possible to include an 8th type of person, who is really nice to people when he is NOT active in the scene (mapping), yet bizarrely really shitty to people only when he IS active in the scene (mapping). Perhaps this theoretical type of mapper could be discovered in the wild one day, but I'm not sure we've seen one yet. In any case he's probably quite difficult to work with in collaborative projects. So anyway, as I was saying... 
TL, DR: Kinn Can Literally Not Stop Inhaling Grandma's Anal Leaks. 
Type 6 
You're a textbook Type 6, shamblechaps, for sure. 
Backhanded mea culpas aren't allowed here? Pu-lease. 
Backhanded mea culpas aren't allowed here? Pu-lease. 
Quake is what makes people play it.

Quake is 1.5. 
Neither Are Double Posts. 
Some people will hate Darkplaces mods because they hate Darkplaces. And some people hates Darkplaces because they hate LordHavoc.

All I know is that there was a lot of drama about DP because of Xonotic/Nexuiz, and about LH because of politics.

FTEQW also has lots of the same features found in DP, but people don't hate it. People who aren't fans of the FTEQW style simply ignore it.

It's quite sad that while Carmack wanted people to enjoy being wildly creative with his games, a significant part of the fanbase hates that.

If Quake was supposed to be a sacred thing where deviating from the norm should be frowned upon, id software could have kept if fully closed source with nothing more than a SnapMap-styled editor.

It's quite ridiculous that people who considers themselves Quake fans hates the freedom that Carmack's work is about. It's sad to see silly drama being put above that freedom. 
Sounds like Carmack is messiah and we fight against each other like medieval orthodox and catholics.
It's a shame cause Quake is just a game. Legendary inspiring... entertainment
Some people will hate Darkplaces mods because they hate Darkplaces. And some people hates Darkplaces because they hate LordHavoc.

I actually think most of the the DP (ooh behave) "haters" here, dislike DP mainly not because of those reasons.

They dislike it because DP has become synonymous with the garish, tasteless "shovelware from 2002" look that many of the modders using DP actively choose to pursue - I'm talking blown-out full-saturation primary-coloured lighting, HD textures that seem to have been created using up to, but no more than, 2 clicks on a photoshop filter, and bloom that makes you wonder whether it's astigmatism kicking in, or the dreaded cataracts are starting to play up.

Let's say you have an Uncle - call him Toby - but every time Uncle Toby picks you up from school, he insists on wearing a fucking clown costume, and spraying all the rest of the kids and waiting parents in the eyes with his stupid fucking water-pistol clown-flower. Now, Toby's otherwise a nice chap - he's a smart guy and has the potential to be good - but every time he comes out he pulls this shit.

Ask yourself this - do you really hate Uncle Toby? Or would you, maybe, give him a second chance if once in his life he just put the stupid clown shit away and starting acting his age? 
If you're not running ULTRA settings with HD textures then you must have a shit PC. It's 2019 lol. 
I don't see people blaming the QW engines for the d_mipcap 3 high fov etc crappy looking configs that many multiplayer users uses.

I understand people disliking what users do, but it's silly to blame the engine.

The only other case I remember of people specifically hating an engine was Tenebrae. But in that case the engine was really not intended to retain the classic look & feel.

My only problems with DP are the viewmodel position (which has no cvar for a classic fov 100 look) and the bloated system requirements. FTEQW is more lightweight despite offering similar features. Still, I don't hate DP for it. 
If you're not going to make any more quake maps because of your fucking erectile dysfunction or whatever, at least do everybody else a favor and shut the fuck up aobut speedmaps. 
Maybe He'll Make WRATH Maps From Now On 
You Need Erectile Dysfunction To Map For Wrath? 
It's Not A Requirement, Per Se 
Is Looking Like A Reptillian A Requirement? 
Question totally unrelated to your face, BTW. 
Are You Referencing 
my cloaca? 
If you're not going to make any more quake maps because of your fucking erectile dysfunction or whatever

who said that??? Fine if that's the way you feel, I've already started "re-inventing" something I was doing recently: 
Oh My 
this will make a fine addition

I could make a big rant about how I get pissed off everytime I remember what happened, but I prefer to focus on how I'm pround of this game's team. 
well, unless killpixel/3DR says otherwise, pretty sure Wrake: Rune of Onions is using the q3bsp format which has lit water "out of the box" as it were. 
how I get pissed off everytime I remember what happened

So what did happen?

I thought eric's compilers do light water, but the engines largely don't do anything with it.... or am I wrong? (probably very wrong) 
Water Is Different In Wrath 
than it is in standard Quake, this may be why we're able to have lit water. 
great shot, i'd rather see this as a regular q map, but anyway... 
Find Out The Otp Leach 
Anna Grodzka 
Spy Vs Any Notion Of Sobriety Or Comprehensibility 
I'm Afraid I Was Bamboozling 
That WIP is neither for quake, or wrath, but is actually for something hitherto unseen. 
hitherto unseen 
thanks and glad you like our water :D

we are using q3bsp, but water was lightmapped when we used q1bsp as well - just plopped a q3 shader on it (so DP/FTE only AFAIK) 
SM194: Spy goes to rehab.

Deadline: March 32nd, 23:59:59 GMT (func time).

Texture wad:

Progs: ID1 but every map must use the drunk vision hack trigger from sm179_otp. 
Oops Wrong Thread. 
Got post #500 though. 
SM194: Spy Goes To Rehab. 
<Oops Wrong Thread.

otp's going to rehab too 
About The Drunkenness 
otp -

the hypocrite in its bestes 
I'm Ok With The Singlemalt Tho 
To Otp And The Other Eddie-shambler 
For Posterity 
Because 1000sofskillsguy loves it:

Struggling and striving to give a bunch of overly opinionated cry babies a well maintained and feature rich alternative to “craigslist quake” (quakeone) was the hard part. Watching them avoid this all due to one guy (me … as if “I am the community”) was even harder. With the exception of how this effects a small handfull of people that are important to me, shutting this down is the easiest thing I’ve done in a long time. I actually perceive it as a testament to just how crappy this community is… more concerned with “boo hoo” than opportunity and expanding the very thing they claim to have a passion for. I was on Quakeone yesterday and noticed WickedLord complaining about the state of Quakeone. This alternative has existed for over a year but he would rather choose to sit in shit and cry about sitting in shit. Genius! This is what we are working with. “I don’t like Gypsy so, fuck myself.” lol … 7 months can’t come soon enough.

A smart attack on me would have been to sign up and participate in droves … forcing me to keep working and paying regardless if I wanted to and gaining your extra exposure in the process. Nobody claimed y’all are smart though. 😀 Your “smartest attack” to date is copy/pasting my pissed off rants, to SPAM your own site with the forethought that I would be smart enough to remove the SPAM from mine. Impressively stupid.

The pretence at "don't care" B2B the obvious bitterness B2B the planet-sized ego is truly even more impressive. 
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