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#tf / Func_qmap BEEF Thread.
Inspired by Scampie who has more beef going than the average American "lite" breakfast =).

So let's have it out here...

Scampie vs. Xen

Scampie vs. ProdXL

Maj vs. ProdXL

(actually most people vs. ProdXL)

Wrath vs. Everyone

Grindspire vs. someone it seems

Me vs. Speedy occasionally

Mod-makers vs. well they just look like a right bunch of knobs anyway.

etc.
First | Previous | Next | Last
 
honestly i dont care about scampie, drunk vondur :p and all the guys that make crapy shit on there... i just go there becouse there some guys play quakeworld like me... Vondur, jagoo, bambuz, spirit, neg|ke and other�s sorry to then! and for real nice people like JPL and Neg|ke that had help me out very much in my start in mapping! thks to then and i will not quit or desapointing u guys i will continue and will make a good work soon!

sorry my English!
je parle Portugais beaucoup mieux ;) 
Trinca 
Eh !! You french is not bad at all.... ;P... but even if your engish is not very good, it is "understandable" with few efforts...

I also think you shouldn't blame people when they are bad guys... just ignore them, or at least what they said, cause many guys like kidding on these fucking chat... 
Uff 
[10:39] * burnin8or was kicked by Shambler (burnin8or)
[10:39] * Petithomme_q4w was kicked by Shambler (Petithomme_q4w)
[10:39] * Petithomme_q4w has joined #terrafusion
[10:39] <Speeds> hehh
[10:39] * shlommodore64 was kicked by Shambler (shlommodore64)
[10:39] * shlommodore64 has joined #terrafusion
[10:39] * joce was kicked by Shambler (joce)
[10:39] * joce has joined #terrafusion
[10:39] <Speeds> autojoin
[10:40] * Proctor was kicked by Shambler (Proctor)
[10:40] * Quest` was kicked by Shambler (Quest`)
[10:40] * Quest` has joined #terrafusion
[10:40] <Speeds> Proctor talks sometimes
[10:40] * []Lardarse was kicked by Shambler ([]Lardarse)


I'm happy I wasn't there at that time 
Who Are We Kidding 
everyone knows that both sham and scamp are the last people you`d want to grant with any powers

eh, and gotta thank raven soft for keeping scamp busy at work :) 
Emo 
some of the people here care too much 
 
eheh but i forget to thks Vondur for my start in mapping!!!

he said to me Quit mapping u will not learn becouse of a stupid question i did to him but in that time i didn�t even know how to make a wall!!! so he wasn�t not that bad! i understand him, was normal i probably do the same thing...

so i was so fucking pissed off that started in mapping stuff i know that i still a real noob but thing will get better!!! 
 
It's like this: Choose your leader: Hitler or Stalin (Hitler being Scampie, Stalin being Shambler, who isn't as bad as Hitler, because we know Russians count as 1/4th of a person, except Vondur. And Jago. Speeds, you're 1/4th of a person.) 
Lol 
"Stalin being Shambler, who isn't as bad as Hitler" lol Stalin kill more russian people then Hitler did to the judes... 
Zwiffle 
Stop being a baby. 
Fjoggs 
Explain a little more, I'm not quite sure what you mean. I'm making as much of the situation as other people are bitching about it. Perhaps you mistake humor for sincerity?

Trinca - hence the joke about Russians being 1/4th of a person... 
... as much FUN of the situation ... 
Hi Zwiffle 
Hi Czg 
Omg Such Faggotry 
* scampwork sets mode: -ooo aardappelgott Asaki Bl1tz
* scampwork sets mode: -ooo czgRAID0 Dietz Fjoggis
* scampwork sets mode: -ooo Friction gibbie inertia
<Shambler> O_o
* scampwork sets mode: -ooo Jago| LordHavoc|code Lunzzz
* scampwork sets mode: -ooo megaman metlslime MoALTz
* scampwork sets mode: -ooo Molgrum pope pushplay_
<Vondur> hah
* scampwork sets mode: -ooo pushplay_atwork RED_ROBOT SleepwalkR
<Vondur> here we go to the gamesnet stage
* scampwork sets mode: -ooo Spiritzzz Vondur voodoochopstiks
* L sets mode: +o Vondur
* scampwork sets mode: -o Zombie


true motives come out.... 
I Think 
it's finally good to not everyone having ops and kicking / kickbanning people randomly. You did a lot of that shambler too. 
 
*** Vondur sets channel #terrafusion mode +b *!Jack@adsl-218-254-29.jax.bellsouth.net

*** _crime_ was kicked from #terrafusion by Vondur (The op is always right �15�) 
 
o_O 
 
* scampwork changes topic to 'new rule: Everyone gets OPs except bambuz. bambuz may be kicked and/or banned at random for any reason.' 
This Channel.... 
is full of scandalous happenings:

<Kazipoo> in compliance with the new rules, i demand an op.
<Kazipoo> :]
* Lunaran sets mode: +ooo _Zombie Kazipoo Trinca|work
<Kazipoo> weeeeee 
 
this thread is so fucking boring 
Yeah 
i recall being channel owner wayyy back in the day. those were good times weren't they? i like being the philosopher king. 
 
deop George W. Bush :p 
 
inertia: you were for a day, only because no one had registered the channel yet, and being a dickhead who'd be in the channel for a total time of 2 days, you went ahead and did it. 
Zwiffle 
What? I thought this was a flamethread, so I dropkicked the first person I saw, namely you. 
It 
was a time of peace. 
BUMP. 
Put it here bitches. That means you Sleepy and Trinca. 
 
funny thread. 
Hmm 
Yeh. I got beef.

Sham is a fucking hypocritical bitch arse coward. All well and good to have mindless fucking flames in GA, but as soon as it's about an important issue like, say, how we treat our fellow human beings he fucking pussies out and cries that we shouldn't discuss it.

Bitch. 
Trinca == BEEF 
"YOUR WORK IS CRAP, STUPID FUCKING ASSHOLE SDL PORT LOLLLL"

from "rui lo" aka trinca@mail.pt (oops sorry if that increases your spam count!) 
Btw 
I like port! 
And Bourbon 
 
But Mostly 
Beer (best served with copious amounts of beef) 
Nonentity 
I have to agree, but not only does that apply to shambler, but to a lot of the regulars here. I still can't understand why everyone is indifferent to this. 
At Least 
Shambler did offer an opinion, even though it was hidden underneath several layers of sarcasm and irony. 
Wow 
seven posts in a row. 
That's Probably More 
than I have posted in the last seven years! 
 
awesome mail :)

sorry if I didnn't sent it but is AWESOME

:)

ohhh forgot to say, know I love Scampie darling I even got him in my facebook ;)

anyway peace! 
 
sleepy, you are one of the best mappers ever. rtz will always be on my favorites list, and eye in the sky oooh my! 
Hey Gibbie! 
no, YUO! 
Good A Time As Any To Bump This 
I see that deqer fellow crawled his way over to you guys, huh?

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=47566

enjoy :) 
Haha, Yeah 
That thread is awesome. 
#137 
They should have sent a poet.

Holy shit. 
 
Those names in the OP (of this thread) sure bring back lots of memories. 
So 
I wasted some of my time and found deQer / Ryan Briscall's website contact:

http://www.ryanbriscall.com/contact/

Also searched his works and releases. Nothing stands out apart from the practically universal dislike he's managed to earn. 
WTF Is 
Adobe Creation Suite?!?!

That stands out to me because if you can't even spell the name of your software that you are listing on your resume, then who is going to give you a job?!?! 
 
How is "PayPal" a skill to be listed on a resume? 
The Sad Thing Is 
Judging by his employment history, this guy is at least in his late 20s. 
 
Guys, personal attacks are not cool. 
Spirit's Right 
Awwww... :( 
 
If you listen really closely, you can actually hear me not caring. 
Deqer, Please Stay! 
you're bringing the community together! 
Spirit 
There are many things that aren't cool - just look at that rabid cunt Deqer.

But yes, point taken. 
@ijed: There Are Maybe 16 Boneheads In That Thread 
Supposedly one troll -- and he might not have really been a troll, just very opinionated.

And 15 other trolls like dogs that poop all over the house are doing at least much trolling as the supposed "problem person".

Meanwhile, it clearly doesn't occur to these "extra participants" that they are accomplices in screwing up the TrenchBroom thread.

/Pointing out the obv 
 
Yes, and there a couple of mother hens clucking their tongues from the sidelines and not really doing anything to help. 
@screwing Up The TrenchBroom Thread 
Just like you screwed RMQ with pretend-defend thread fueling the animosity and trolling the shit out of both the locals and RMQ team?
Nah, not nearly as bad. 
Watch Out 
We got an anon in here! 
But... 
I like being a bonehead! 
I've Trolled Before 
And usually when I've trolled, I make it obvious enough.

"Pretend defend of RMQ?"

I tried to help those guys every moment I could to get people interested in their work because they were doing insane crazy things with bsp2/QuakeC.

Maybe everyone didn't like all the ideas, but some great concepts were done and nice engine features and tools that resulted benefit everyone who has an interest in single player Quake. 
Thanks 
 
And 
Postind Deqer's details was a misdirection attempt from the TrenchBroom thread so conversation could be more on track there.

Won't be spamming it or anything. 
But Deqer Apologised 
so everything's all ok!

:D 
I Only Posted In This Thread 
cause I thought Spiney might be bored and needed some reading material.

I'm thoughtful like that. Caring is sharing. 
 
Awww <3 
Fyi 
fuck you all 
I Like... 
how the flame someone thread has a smiley face on it. It somehow makes me... smile. 
Well That Gelatinous Ginger Twat Still Has The Skillz... 
* Scampie (~Scampie@72-12-65-92.oxfordnetworks.net) has joined #terrafusion
* Q sets mode: +o Scampie

<@Scampie> skacky and onetruepurple: I AM BACK IN IRC
<@Scampie> JUST FOR YOU TWO
* Scampie sets mode: +b *!*@*.dynamic.vectranet.pl
* onetruepurple was kicked by Scampie (onetruepurple)
* Scampie sets mode: +b *!*@*.w90-0.abo.wanadoo.fr
* skacky was kicked by Scampie (skacky)

<@Scampie> YAY!
<@Scampie> ok bye forever again
* @Scampie (~Scampie@72-12-65-92.oxfordnetworks.net) Quit (Quit: GTFO) 
Spirit You Fucking Douchebag. 
Readme file please. ZIP archive instead of 7z please.

If this was the first response to my first map release I'd walk away and never open a map editor again. Have you been hitting fucking asbestos from a bong? 
 
who uses winzip over 7zip anyway? 
 
Noone. Spirit just wants to put it in his quakeinjector (java) thing without having to modify it first.
plus its a smidge easier to rename it to .pk3 
 
onetruepurple: Did you forget to take your riddling or have you become a SJW? Not sure how you jumped to that idea. Also it was neither the first comment nor did the user react like you in any way. It is not even anything about the map itself. Take care about yourself.

Kona: It's not software vs software but format vs format. Zip is simply the lowest common denominator.

Spike: Amongst other things :p 
*ritalin, Not Riddling 
 
So,,,, 
<skacky_> negke is iredeemable crap 
Lol 
Unverbesserlich scheisse! 
 
Kinn's thighs so hawt he dont feel laptop burn 
LOL. 
WP that. 
MUGWUMP Vs. 
....any sense of taste and decency. 
Shambler Vs. 
...any sense. 
Err 
I'm amazed this is still going - not any one problem between any two people, but a general culture, among people who are at least ostensibly dedicated to technical and artistic matters, of introducing piss into the water.

I may be an "autistic fanatic," as I've been called, but I just don't get it. Although under my own scheme, I don't really have the right to denounce anything or even ask questions, since one's ability to be a grunting, spewing, churning asshole is in direct proportion to one's worthwhile contributions. 
 
func_beef situations tend to always start out small and justified, but then they tend to spiral out of control because one side always has to have the last word. You can't control the beef, once the beef has been set in motion - you just have to let the beef runs its course. It's a good idea to keep popcorn available for these occasions. 
 
@tronyn -- its the internet -- in 2 weeks, you'll struggle to recall any of it. Remember deuquer --- who's feedback for a map editor was mixed with good points and way too much intensity?

For all that feedback and intensity, would be interesting to know whether or not he ever made a released map with the editor for whatever non-Quake game he was a mapper for. 
Func_beef 
I immediately demand the original reasoning
backfrom where we started. 
Wow 
A thread I commented in 12 years ago is still going on here.

I would congratulate metlslime on the uptime, but he's a great big stinky bum. 
Beef. Beef Never Changes. 
 
 
What is this thread? Me vs. Computer 
 
Lasagne vs. Pizza? 
twelve years is a lot of reasoning on func_beef!
Wait, where we started?

A smell-chip? 
 
lol anyone remember Baker? 
It's Funny 
that's why this thread exists. Also, so the frustration doesn't come up in more technical threads/discussions.

I'm with shambler on this one. 
Neggers 
https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/1537

Sigh, okay.

Is it really too much to ask to go to github and create an issue report when you discover a bug? Asshole. 
 
Occasionally it does seem like a bit of a chore (even more so if one has to register an account first) when the important thing should be reporting a bug in first place <- which apparently is quite something to ask for these days.

Although in this case, especially considering it was actually mostly a derp on my part, I do realize the passive aggressive introduction is inappropriate. Sorry. 
Kinn,u Got Called Out Fo Real. 
http://imgur.com/REu6aKE

Youtube diss map response bro.....do eeeet. 
 
Funny jokes that Spirit has made ever: 0 
Lol Beef 
Me Vs compiling in mac. 
Haha! 
So Spirit does still read Func_, after all... 
#188 
Fair beans. 
Baker, OTP, Your Time: 
 
 
The beef has been very juicy lately. I can appreciate that when I read during my morning commute. Hope the salt levels stay in check though... 
Yeah, However 
"Your opinion on (X) is invalid because you've made less content than (Y)" is real low-rent stuff chaps. Come on, you're better than this. I want to see some proper top-shelf quality beef, with both sides giving it some, punctuated by Shambler slapping down some of his patented stone-cold truth bombs every now and then. I've got my popcorn ready and everything. 
I Was Trying To Get Some Discussion Going 
I was hoping to create an edgy thread that got people talking about innnovation, sharing stories. I intentionally baited some.

Looks like I was too edgy and a bit too trolley -- although I was going more for the humor angle --- like my preposterous list of things that a reply had to consider --- I mean seriously, haha ;-)

But that humor doesn't translate well to the written word, especially without emoji :-)

Happens to the best of us! My intentions were good.

On the plus side, I am proud I was able to create a thread too controversial for Func ;-)

How many times has that happened --- ever!! 
Callout Post 
I'm officially starting beef with Baker for using those goddamn hyphens in his "emoji".

;) > ;-) 
 
That entire post is just more self serving bullshit dude. Give it a rest. 
:-( 
 
 
Not you pritchard. We cool we cool. 
:--) 
 
 
Well in any case, I'm glad to hear that Marcher 2: Even Marcherer is due out sometime this year. :) 
@mukor 
Feel free to try to ascribe negative motivations to me as you would like. I'm assuming you enjoy wasting your time, it's yours to spend. ;-)

I like starting controversially named threads or disruptive posts for the shock factor or to get people talking.

Sometimes, I have struck gold --- a very provocative rant about Quake 3 vs. Quake 1 mapping created some shockwaves that caused several very cool things to happen.

All just by typing words on a keyboard, haha. 
#202 
Well in any case, I'm glad to hear that Marcher 2: Even Marcherer is due out sometime this year. :)

??? 
@mukor - Also ... 
It is, in fact, a number of the works for Quake were done for resume enhancements/hopes of gaming jobs and other reasons beyond Quake.

I thought that would make an interesting angle for discussion.

Because more than a fair number of level designers here worked/did work/wanted to work professionally in that field.

It was a significant factor in the creation in a number of prominent works in the past --- where the creators were mapping "for Quake" but they were aiming "for something more".

Are those kinds of level designers with enhanced motivations more likely to try to *really showoff* their talent more than someone new and bored who downloaded a map editor? 
@mukor -- I May As Well Triple Post ... 
Also another sub-theme of the topic ...

Steam newbies or bored people who downloaded a map editor --- they don't really have any detailed knowledge of the history of Quake.

I mentioned FrikaC who is one of the most influential developers of all time -- since I perceive you to be rather new, he was the author of FrikBots and frikqcc Quake C compiler. He also went on to work in the games industry.

But more than that -- like I said, I perceive you to be rather new but it may or may not be the case ---

But if it is the case that you are new, and unfamiliar with the history of Quake or how external motivations may have shaped the game ...

Should conversation topics be dumbbed down to cater to your level of knowledge of the history of Quake?

So there is a question for you ... 
Keep Digging Baker ;-) 
 
:---) 
Not even locking his thread can stop the juggernaut that is Baker! 
 
It is, in fact, a number of the works for Quake were done for resume enhancements/hopes of gaming jobs and other reasons beyond Quake.

I thought that would make an interesting angle for discussion.


Are those kinds of level designers with enhanced motivations more likely to try to *really showoff* their talent more than someone new and bored who downloaded a map editor?

Isnt it a given that those with more experience or a larger end goal in mind, are going to put more effort into something than those who just recently downloaded a map editor?

It seems part of your goal here was to get me to speak of myself in a way that was self serving.

"Ive been mapping for *this long*"

"Ive played Quake for *this long*"

None of that even matters in this context. All the info one wants about Quake is freely available on the internet. Theres countless documentaries, threads on forums, and articles on Quake to fill in whatever type of Quake knowledge one seeks to acquire. 
 
meant to preview but accidentally posted. Honestly, though, thats probably for the better.

Long story short: Its obvious you havent played my maps or read the readmes attached to them. Meanwhile, I have MarkV pinned to my taskbar and read every post on the recent MarkV thread.

So, thanks man. Really appreciate the sense of comradery you have! 
 
"Its obvious you havent played my maps or read the readmes attached to them."

Before you think IM being self serving and trying to say "If you played them youd see my skillzzzzz brooo"

But a "You didnt have anything substantial to say about my mapping or me so its obvious you didnt even touch em" 
FFS Baker 
Are you high? OTP and Mukor both called you out for your bullshit. It's about time you'd shut the hell up. 
This Is Vintage Baker 
Also vintage otp. 
 
On the subject of vintage Baker:

http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60370

Here he is in 2009 enjoying the economic crisis! 
 
Is it just me, or is this particular beef seeming quite vengeful? 
Not For Me 
 
Jesus Fuck What A Fucking Idiot 
 
 
I have this mental shortlist of people on func who take things waaaaay too seriously.

This particular thread serves as both entertainment and re-affirmation of said list. 
 
1v1 ME BRO CMON 
 
Shambler is ex bief�ated. 
 
http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=61375&start=1567&end=1626

This is what you get when you don't keep the beef thread healthy and fresh. It starts leaking rotten beef juice all over the rest of the forum.

Specifically, Gunter vs. The World has taken over MarkV's thread... 
 
What do you know, there IS a Beef Thread!

Hmmm... "Gunter vs the World."

Sounds like my next Quake mod!

Nah, actually, FvF is enough. It could already be described as, "Gunter Hates You All And Wants You To Suffer Endless Humiliation."

So you should definitely all come play FvF! We have regular cooperative (Quest mode) games every Sunday night (some weeks more active than others) between 7-10 PM Central.

So come play!



Thennnn my abominable monsters will make you suffer! >:D

server: fvf.servequake.com
web: www.fvfonline.com 
Ha! 
If I felt shifting the backlash of my barrelgun in quake, I now was living in a country without a license! 
Ode To Spike 
I didn't point out the fragile progs.dat compatibility landscape in a personal way.

i.e. I wasn't raising red flags because it was your idea.

I was raising red flags because I have seen too many "Hey guys, here is my better progs.dat! It can't load all the existing single player maps because I didn't think about the corner cases and assemble a set of those --- and it can't load save games because I didn't think about that either --- but nevermind these things I didn't think about that will slowly come to light over the course of the next 18 months due to my incompetence, look how great it is!!!".

I pointed out the landmines because I have seen that tragedy before. I simply posted information, because watching re-runs of tragedies makes me want to bang my head.

Karl Marx: "All the great events in history happen twice. The first time it is a tragedy. The second time it is a farce."

Why not type a few words to prevent that?

So I did.

It wasn't personal. I myself like watching train wrecks, but I don't like them to happen in Quake because I think Quake is something unusually special.

/Anyway, without this beer I would have defaulted to "ignore" but I am thinking "convey information" is better choice. DAMN THE TOPREDOS --- SUBMIT!! OH WAIT -- I C 
All Of You Guys Must Be Young Or On Serious Vitality Pills 
20: I hate you and I will fucking kill you.
30: I dislike you greatly and I will make sure you know it.
40: You suck and I don't have the time or energy to tell you why or argue it.

I'm thinking 50 will be something like...

I need a fucking nap. 
 
Guess who can dish it out but can't take it?

http://i.imgur.com/b6N1ZdN.png 
 
You're really hoping I respond, huh? Fine, you get this one reply, cherish it forever.

You seem to think the worst criticism of me is that I'm not as interested in Quake as I used to be, that I might have other things going on in my life which keep me from mapping as much as I'd like, or that I support/work with my friends in our projects. Maybe you're trying to hurt me by saying this? But I can assure you, not only do I not give a fuck about your opinion, I also am completely at peace with my creative output, abilities, and my friendships.

And "Dish it out"? Who's the one writing multiple paragraphs of bile and personal attacks complete with screenshots because I told Skacky 'large start maps suck', and 8k brushes he copy pasted around is not that impressive and better served in his actual gameplay map? Skacky's a big boy mapper, he can take mild criticism and design advice... and where's negke's hate for saying the same thing first?

And who's always the one at the center of all the fucking drama of the last several years? This community has gotten really good at just ignoring you and letting you be a dickwad to everyone who even slightly disagrees or says different from you. Much of the old crew simply just stopped posting, it wasn't worth it, and I'm surprised anyone new even bothers.

Why are you even going to my twitter anyway, except to find some more ways to harrass someone? You unfollowed me years ago and I've had you muted for quite awhile because you have nothing of value to say. Blocking just seemed fitting after your outburst, and how you've been treating others anyway. Seems like it was the right choice given your obsessiveness.

I seriously hope someday you find some joy in life beyond sowing hate and discontent and that fills whatever hole inside that makes you such a toxic shit to everyone around you. Trust me when I say this, I've been there in the old days of always wanting to cause chaos for my own entertainment... from experience you are only hurting yourself in the long run when eventually you find yourself surrounded only by the idiots and assholes who will tolerate you. But you've got some extra obsessive viciousness in you, and have spent way too much time rotting your brain on 4chan. You're going to need professional help to get better in life. For your sake, please get it. And for this community's sake? fuck off. 
 
The difference between you and negke is that negke didn't come here to accuse me of dickwaving as you put it so well, and even if negke dislikes Knave he doesn't stir shit.

I'm taking some time to create an imposing start map because I think this jam warrants it, given how many participants there are and how impressive Kell's style is, and you just come here and say shit like this? What did I even do to warrant such hostility? I don't even know why I fucking bother doing this if I'm going to get reactions like that. This is the last time I'm doing something like this. You can make a better start map for the next jam if you like. 
As A Matter Of Fact. 
I was expecting a response, but not one this elaborate and sassy, so I'm glad you decided to not disappoint for a change.

And no, the worst criticism of you has to be the absolute hipocrisy which you displayed just now, which is shitting in the fan and then blaming the smell on somebody else. You came to the mapping jam and started to bring people's morale down by posting shite, despite being absolutely unprovoked. I declined to flame you back during my jam because I knew that would drive everybody off mapping (which, of course, was your desired effect from the get go), but obviously you could not resist from doing it again, for whatever reason.

Putting me as the center of all the drama hardly makes sense if you're the one who started it.

where's negke's hate for saying the same thing first?

negke was obviously wrong, but he was wrong in a way that didn't insult or patronise anybody. Again, not doing these is apparently impossible for you.

Why are you even going to my twitter anyway, except to find some more ways to harrass someone?

Because skacky blocked you and I was about to do the same.

Trust me when I say this, I've been there in the old days of always wanting to cause chaos for my own entertainment

I don't need you to trust you on this, because that's always been my impression of you ever since I started coming here about 10 years ago. It was nice to see you give it up and actually start contributing with something worthwhile, and it's sad that you went back to your old ways.

You're going to need professional help to get better in life. For your sake, please get it.

I see this is coming from a familiar place. Forgive me if I do not want to take advice regarding mental health from someone with such a rich history of self-importance, continuous power trips, and a hit list of people who left the community because of you.

And for this community's sake? fuck off.

At least you're honest about it now, unlike you were during the entire time of our acquaintance. I'm sure you were very disappointed to see your usual passive-aggressive tricks not do anything to me.

But no, for this community's sake I'll stay, I'll keep mapping and encouraging others to map despite you wanting the complete opposite. 
Sorry 
I meant to say "Simon", just to underline that deep and personal friendship between you two that us plebs can never hope to have, like you always do. 
Wow OTP. 
When i think you can't go lower, you still manage to.
Posting this info here? You are scum. 
 
I'm not posting anything that was leaked to me. 
 
It looks to me, people who are playing Quake,
do become one of their inhabitants in some way. 
 
Seems like #229 was removed for no real reason, despite not having any of the sensitive private info that is gleefully handed away by a certain former mapper.

TLDR Scampie you have not changed one iota since the first few posts of the thread, you're antagonising mappers for no reason, I'm blocking you from life GG. 
Otp Butthurt? 
seemso. 
BTW 
As OTP is a confirmed spammer now, can someone ban him already? 
Words Of Wisdom 
It looks to me, people who are playing Quake,
do become one of their inhabitants in some way.
 
 
It hurts, I know, but unlike some of you would like to believe OTP has actually done a fair bit for the community for the past few years. Organized two very successful jams for instance, and one of the driving forces behind the current Knave jam as well. I don't see why he should be banned. 
Yup. 
Don't ban TOR exit nodes and known proxy addresses, don't ban the Quetoo/nQuake spammer, ban me because I told Scampie off for speaking when he shouldn't have.

mfx I see your anger management is still as good as when you nearly broke your phone because your QuArK brushwork wouldn't compile. 
OTP 
i can end another unvise map to test, you wont notice til your brain is so slow. Ok? 
#229 
I hid this as spam on request from someone whose point I believed was valid, not ideal but the best I could do and I judged respecting the request to be more beneficial than having the full flow of scampie vs otp beef. I'm hoping metl will reinstate it in an edited version, or the full thing as he sees suitable.

Obviously otp should not be banned, I'm well aware of his support and encouragement of mapping events as well as sometimes well-targeted trolling. However I think he's gone too far sometimes recently and some of this thread might be an example of it. 
So Beef Thread Is On A Diet? 
 
This Thread Puts An Smile In My Face 
The kind of thing I'm having to deal with in life is…

Well, let's just say that most of the time I feel I'm not mature enough, not emotionally strong enough. And then I see some of the people who I admire behaving like this. It helps to put things in perspective.

But I still hope all of you are better than this. 
@mankrip 
Not unusual behavior for people who are obsessed with a 21 year-old videogame. :p 
 
un-flagged post 229. deleted the last paragraph. 
#229 
I didn't get to read the last paragraph before the edit; what did it say? 
 
Thanks metl, apologies for the trouble. 
I Have No Idea What You Guys Are Talking About 
but otp is helping me in #mapping_help 24/7. 
#246 
I didn't get to read the last paragraph before the edit; what did it say?

Was some personal stuff that didn't belong on the board. You're not missing much though. 
There Are Memes And There Are Wholesome Memes 
There is a beef thread why not a ... wholesome thread? Would it even be able to survive here? 
Reading #229. Nothing Of Value Was Lost After All 
otp go fuck off back to your klan rally 
#251 
Post it again but with your name, coward. 
 
 
DAMN OTP HE GOT YOU BRO 
 
I must be a retard or something.

I want to create my own game, using my own tech. But I have no way to let others work with me, because my engine still uses code from Quake. I can't prevent any partner from redistributing the engine to the masses while its code is still tainted by the GPL. The GPL kills any chance of the novelty factor of a new technology becoming a selling point, because the "release early, release often" approach of open source software development prevents any new software from becoming mature before reaching the masses. The GPL forces software to become widely available even when it still is a piece of crap, and by the time the software's potential finally gets fully realized, it's old news already and the excitement about its novelty has been over for a long while; there's no room for novelty factor under the GPL.

The GPL is great for operating systems, business software and the like, but it's awful for the interactively dynamic artistic expressions of videogame technology, because they depend on timing and novelty. If new technology doesn't get people excited by the time it's complete and polished, there is no incentive for developers to keep pushing that technology forward.

Try to imagine someone telling you an awfully boring joke over and over, slightly modifying it on each iteration. By the time the current version of the joke is finally good, you already know what the joke is. There is no surprise, no figuring out, no catch. No fun.
E.B. White — 'Explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog. You understand it better but the frog dies in the process.'

Carmack is not stupid. He released his sources, but only when their tech was already old news. He didn't release his sources early because it would have been a waste of commercial momentum. But people using his GPL'd sources does not have this option; this is one of the reasons why they could never compete.

This forces me to create everything alone because I can't redesign the tech without having proper assets to test it with. More often than not, testing the engine with proper assets reveals further algorithm redesigns that needs to be carried on. And creating proper assets takes a whole fucking lot of study and work.

I don't know why I'm still motivated to work on this thing. It's a fucking chore, and it's making me feel I'm behaving like an egoistical cunt.

It'll likely take forever to redesign and rewrite the whole engine, even if I replace parts of it with MIT/BSD licensed libraries. I'm not hopeful.

I am a fucking retard. I could be doing something else with my life. I do feel proud of some algorithms, but as a whole what I'm doing and the way I'm doing it is pathetic. 
@mankrip 
Most successful projects require 20-200 friends, with at least 5 of them to be loyal diehards committed to an idea.

Most things born in this world are spawned by social groups anchored with a few talented people working together.

The thing about doing things with a social group ...
1) They will reality check you.
2) They will emotionally support you when you are down.
3) They will get excited when you hit a checkpoint.

Do you have a plan written on paper with each step laid out of what you plan to do and how you plan to achieve it and the time frame for each step and then laying out why and how to make money?

If so, have you shown others to collect their thoughts?

Winning is achieved by taking CHAOS and forcing it into ORDER against its will. Chaos always fights back.

A plan represents the ability to internally conquer your own chaos and force it into order.

/One opinion. 
 
Ultimately, legality/GPL doesn't really enter into it - are you really going to sue them if they release it? Do they expect that, or would they just redistribute it regardless?

Frankly, if someone wants to work with you to make something awesome then they're very likely to respect your wishes and not distribute to the world before its ready. Sure, they might distribute it if you disappear off the face of the planet, but that should be considered a good thing in the potential event of your death.
Ultimately, you just have to trust them to respect your wishes. The only difference the GPL really makes is that they probably have your sourcecode too. Sure, they'd have a legal right to redistribute, but anyone who actually uses that right in this situation is basically a dick.


also: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#InternalDistribution
(I'm not entirely sure where it actually says that in the gplv2, but hey...)

Alternatively, you can distribute your non-derivative changes as a gpl-incompatible library. They can use+compile it themselves but as they can't relicense your code, they can't distribute the result. Obviously there's nothing physically stopping them from doing so anyway, or just violating your gpl-incompatible license too. I'm guessing you'd have a legal basis to sue them (I'm not a lawyer, so that's JUST a guess), but it still won't get you anywhere.

Frankly you're just going to have to trust them. Whether its gpl or proprietary doesn't really make any practical difference unless either you're rich+willing to sue(ie: you're a dick [for lack of a better word]), or they don't respect your wishes (they're dicks).
I know its much easier said than done, but just don't work with dicks. :)

The other option you have is to go with cross-engine standards like eg iqm. They can make the model work fine in some other engine, and you can then test that everything else works in your engine.
Standards are great for not bothering to create your own content. :) 
 
Spike: Useful stuff, I didn't know about that FAQ.

I'm actually planning to convert the whole renderer into an external DLL once I manage to fully redesign and untangle it from the rest of the engine. Upgrading the license to GPL v3 allows that. This will also allow me to create a simplified version of the renderer which will work closer to vanilla WinQuake, but its code should be much easier to understand.
This is also why I'm not replacing and removing Quake-specific features such as the QC virtual machine and the physics code yet. I want to see how far my code can go without breaking compatibility with vanilla Quake before branching it into a fully different engine.

Baker: I'm my own chaos. My mind is only stable when my metabolic rate is high, which only happened five years ago. Before that, I got as far as searching for self-surgery methods to rip off the fat from my body before figuring out a semi-suicidal method which allowed me to lose 59Kg and stabilize my weight at 70Kg. Since then, financial difficulties and other factors forced me to stop going to the gym and I've regained 20Kg, which makes me hate myself because I fucking hate this disgusting mass of dead weight dragging me down and making everything more difficult.
This year I've solved my financial situation and most of the other crap, and I'm pondering about going back to the semi-suicidal weight loss method if I don't manage to get results through safer ways. Usually I have to beat the shit out of my mind for it to do what should be done.
There's some other smaller crap going on, but if I recover the energy I had in 2012 nothing will be able to stop me anymore.

About the plans for the engine and the game, I don't write everything down because my failed experience with Patreon taught me that I'm terrible at expressing things in a way that people can understand. What surprised me the most in that experience was that a surprisingly significant amount of people were asking me about things which I had already informed as clearly as I could in the project description. This is another reason why I've been putting effort into creating everything alone; the only way to clearly communicate my vision is to produce an example of it, so I'm trying to create a proper demo. 
 
I don't write everything down because my failed experience with Patreon taught me that I'm terrible at expressing things

Sounds like you found what you need to do.

Change that. Watch videos on persuasion and then practice it.

Communications skills and the ability to market ones own ideas is more important than any other skill because it is what enables one to accumulate resources and instill confidence in other people that you are going to win.

In the age of free communication, it sounds like your self-imposed limitation of poor communications skill makes free communication worthless.

You did poorly with the Patreon because you told almost no one about, did not make it sound exciting and did not explain why you think it is great. You also gave up on the Patreon very quickly because it did poorly because you did a poor effort to promote it. Then you proceeded to judge your own project's worth based on the response to the very half-assed effort you made to promote the Patreon.

Which do you fear more?

1) The thought of being embarrassed while you level up your communications skills.

2) Failure. Never getting what you want. A life of regret. Living with opportunities but knowing you were not brave enough to dare to put forward your best effort because you were too afraid to step outside your comfort zone.

Humans are malleable and you can mold yourself as you so desire, if you have the courage to do so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrhSLf0I-HM&t=40s

/One perspective. I'm wrong a lot. 
Another Perspective 
I am not from the communication = persuasion school of thought. I know a lot of people that have good persuasion skills but I would still say they are poor communicators because getting what you want people to do is only part of the matter. An important part to be sure but without more it is not really sustainable.

I realise we are in the age of self learning with free access to everything but IMHO, with communication, any learning is only going to get you so far. You have to try it repeatedly, and be prepared to fail in order to learn what will work for you. Because you have to believe in the method you come up with, otherwise ultimately it is not really sustainable. 
 
I'm gona go with nitin on this one. Fuck everything 
This Wasn't Me 
Wouldn't mind knowing who this trolltard coward is... 
 
You're slipping, troll. You didn't use a TOR node there. 
 
...The GPL forces software to become widely available even when it still is a piece of crap, and by the time the software's potential finally gets fully realized, it's old news already and the excitement about its novelty has been over for a long while...

Most indie teams have to work really hard to market themselves to get their game noticed by anybody. Your worry about doing no marketing and yet the early alpha of your engine going viral and everyone on the internet sees it, seems to go against reality for most indie teams. 
 
I have shame enough to hide my face when talking shit online. Shame the same can not be said for all. Woe unto the wise, the bane of us all 
[86.176.118.68] 
At least you are ashamed, that's a first step in the right direction. 
 
Join me mugwump. Realize you're an idiot with nothing worth saying and refrain from posting. Make some wooden spoons or something. Please. 
Whatever Makes You Feel Better... 
 
 
You did poorly […] because you […], did not make it sound exciting and did not explain why you think it is great.

It did sound exciting to me, and I did say why I thought it's great.

The fact that you and several other people could never recognize that just proves my point. 
 
Promoting things can be hard work.

But since you emailed 1000 people, posted on Reddit, contacted several gaming web sites, spread the word on social networks, knocked door to door in wealthy neighborhoods --- and did it all repeatedly for months on end -- I think you can take comfort that you showed up the battlefield.

You gave it your all! That is the best anyone can do.

/See metlslime post #264 above. 
 
That would only make sense if I was promoting a (nearly) finished product.

Spending most of my time doing PR work instead of coding would be essentially a scam.

Anyway, I don't need money anymore. 
 
That is good to hear.

Someone working on a project should spend maybe 2% of time promoting it passively (blog? an occasional screenshot in random places)

Someone in an active promotion mode, should spend 100% of time available to very vigorously promoting their work.

Func_Msgboard examples are like when Sleepwalker was trying to get John Romero to say something about TrenchBroom (it worked!) or the kind of promotion Sock did with early Quake releases around the 2012 period, Sock hit a lot of different places -- including some very non-Quake places -- and was thinking "2 thumbs up, finally someone doing it right!".

Self-promotion is not a crime. Especially if the cause is just.

Someone afraid of seeming a bit like a spammer is guilty of the crime --- the crime of not being perceived as definitely a spammer.

I hope you do succeed, you have always made interesting and unique contributions, particularly to things like the software renderer and lit water and such. I can remember years back digging through your engine for innovations.

I still can remember trying your pixelated water technique in WinQuake way early in this decade WinQuake pixelated water and acquiring WinQuake skybox support, which I know probably was derived from ToChris but you did it better ;-) 
 
beefing with Breezeep for saying he didnt have enough time or inspiration for this jam but then ABSOLUTELY KILLING IT WITH HIS SCREENSHOT GAME.

1v1 me bro 
U Wot M8? 
 
 
fuk u m8. go fekin map. 
The GPL 
"The GPL forces software to become widely available even when it still is a piece of crap"

This is a common misconception. If you are a business that uses software based on a GPL project, but you only use it internally, you DO NOT have to publically distribute the source to your changes.

Additionally, when you must make the source "available", you do not have to make it easy. It is absolutely legal to not offer the source for download directly on your webpage, but instead have it available on request AND ONLY to those who already have access to your binaries.

That being said, obviously if some paying customer does ask and receive the source code from you, theres nothing to stop them from sharing it elsewhere. 
Beefing With Megaman 
Fucking calm down about Ionous' Twitch posts. No one cares that he does this, they are not excessive and you are acting like a fucking baby. You got some attention and made your point. The majority of people disagree so let's get back to talking about mapping. 
Beefy Farts 
Meat, and especially beef, makes me fart more than usual after consumption.

Guess my digestion has a beef with the food I eat. 
Hmmmh, I Don't Really Get It 
Good to take it to beef I guess.

First of all, this is not at all about ionous, so lets take him out of the equation. I like what he's doing!

The way I see it:

0) I complain about stream advertising

a) I accept that majority agrees that stream advertisement is okay.

b) I stream advertise while expressing my opinion that I think it is not a good idea to do so

c) suddenly this is a problem for some reason


The logical error here creates a strong urge to
troll some more.

Note that I really am streaming sometimes at the advertised url, so it really is not much different from the other spam.

And at what point did this become personal, btw? :-( 
And No, I'm Not Trying To Piss You Guys Off 
This is just about those conventions we somehow implicitely agree upon. 
Ha 
But this might all be worth it for shambler's comments, which make me laugh every time. 
Time 
 
What Are Streaming Ads? 
I use adblock and Chrome. I honestly see NO ADS. Never once have I seen an ad. What gives? 
 
"b) I stream advertise while expressing my opinion that I think it is not a good idea to do so

c) suddenly this is a problem for some reason"

You did it in jest. You didnt actually stream anything.

The only point you proved was that youre willing to be petty about a non issue.

Go map. 
@megaman 
How's this for irony?

When he goes online -I get an email, an Android notification and I see the posts for ionous' Twitch streams. I am gonna go fix the email thing now. Thanks! 
Beef Blog 
Tonight I went to a shitty restaurant on a short stretch of the beach in Bali and had a terrible beef curry dish. It was incredibly tough and the cauliflower (?!) was barely cooked.

But at least I didn't see any ads for Twitch streams. 
@Pritchard 
On the beach in Bali?

I hate you. 
@P R I T C H A R D 
Did you experience an increase in flatulence? 
Spicy Shit 
A tropical escape is a good way to generate beef, apparently.

Gotta say that I'm enjoying the tucker up here, plenty of chilli available so that's been fun. Been getting the staff where I'm staying to throw one or two in my breakfast, toughens you up that does.

Sadly I'm coming home soon. Back to the daily stress of University study :( 
@Pritchard 
Well, watch a sunset for me...

I mean that in the most masculine way. 
That Discord Spammer 
That's my BEEF :(

F*&K him and that server...

Can I have Mod abilities just to deal with his spam??? Pleeeease. 
We Need A Word For "Quake Beef" 
queef? 
@killpixel 
That gets my vote.

https://youtu.be/vBPGW0SRFKw

NSFW 
Damage_ 
No disagreement there. Top quality cockcheeser. 
#293 
that was fowl. I prefer this one myself (nsfw). 
That Url Is Fooling Nobody Here 
 
Muk. 
How about you stop your fucking disgusting obsession with taking pictures of your own shit, you disturbing creep? 
What 
 
Just PM Them To #onetruepurple Direct. 
 
 
Y u heff 2 b mad? Is jus a poops 
OTP-SOCK-MUK Chainmap 200% Confirmed. 
Theme: "Poop" (AD vs RemakeQuake version) 
 
Oh my favorite part of this is OTP mutually masturbating with Shambler to heavy-r but a picture of shit in the NSFW channel is just unacceptable.

ur fully cuck'd m8 
 
Calling out ayyy lmao

Start posting again or you have to 1v1 me 
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