[12:31] <RPG> Menk rocks, btw
[12:32] <Dinnerbler> wtf is it with madfox
[12:33] <Dinnerbler> i mean, is he on crack or something?
[12:34] <RPG> BTW, get Menkalinan as soon as possible.
[12:34] <popa> is it limited edition!?!
[12:34] <RPG> Gameplay = bestesterest
Er, You Cut Out The Important Part Pope!
when I answered you
[15:32] <RPG> Gameplay = bestesterest
[15:32] <scampwork> yes
[15:32] <Dinnerbler> rpg: just thinking that
[15:32] <scampwork> i'll be deleting the news in 15 mins
F**ing Peace Of Art!
man what a peace of art! make a dm map with these textures please! :) realy beautifull!
Good gameplay, good design, good layout, good variety, good traps.
I also got a larger than average amount of
SZ_GetSpace: 8014 is > full buffer size
errors when quickloading...
Hasn't anyone noticed the flat lighting?
Damn! You Chose The Wrong One
Good traps (the jumping Shambler, yeahh!) and environmental interaction. Good stuff. Loved it.
Complaint? Not much to complain about, but if you twisted my arm, I'd point to some of the terrain.
The terrain here looks good in the perspective of traditional Quake oriented mapping but the style of using trigs and cut brushes is getting to be more noticeably manneristic and unnatural in appearance.
Soon, Bay Raitt's theory of Edge Loops will apply to mapping as it is now the standard for modeling.
Not your fault, but just how the scene is evolving.
Meaning I've Gone Loopy And Over The Edge!
Is the simplest explanation and it is directly from Raitt though you can fill volumes with the material that is out there. All of the forum sites for the modelers (I use Wings3d and Blender) discuss the matter in great detail.
Essentially, you keep track of the horizontal and vertical lines when creating surface contours with polies. Triangles are to be avoided as they cannot extend in both directions.
Personally, i've never liked doing the regular grid-aligned heightmaps in low-poly games like quake. If they're high-res enough, it's fine, but at low res i'd rather have edges follow the contour of the terrain. So this edge loop thing is right up my alley.
But for Q1/Q2 i try to make stuff out of chunky polyhedra rather than out of a bunch of wedges. Quake seems to handle it better and stylistically it can be nice. See The Powersphere Quest
for a great example of this chunky technique. Or my own Concrete Dreams
for a sort of blend between the chunky technique and Distruptor's wall-shearing technique.
Judging from the screenshots, has this map been run throught light.exe at all?
I get re-routed to file.dhtml when I try to save-as.
And if I click the d/l link, it downloads with nothing inside.
Oh Thanks For Comments, Keep 'em Coming
Trinca: dm map with these textures? I'm not sure, I'm currently working at a dm map, but in other texture style.
Shambler: Bad textures???? hm, I was totally impressed by these texes, when I saw them the very first time.
Also I thought I had fixed that error on startup, but I've never meet in when qickloading.
Phait: Look at the lighting in game, screenshots are rather brighter.
HeadThump: thanks for your comments:)
Jago: see comment to Phait
uwf: thanks, great review
nitin: It seems you have used the direct link (..../files/menk.zip) in your browser. Better download it from the page: http://quakemaps.nm.ru/maps2.html
And no first run demos so far?
Also has anyone found the secret exit?
even from the page I cant right click on it to save.
right click doesn't work, simply click on link at the page, it should work
someone could create a fileplanet mirror for this file? btw personally I don't like FP.
i also got the
SZ_GetSpace: 8014 is > full buffer size
error quite frequently.
its slightly annoying, so you might want to look at you or aguire or someone else fixing it if possible.
would be good because there's nothing in the zip file when I open it by clicking on it normally.
I liked the textures, architecture & gameplay and the egyptian theme works very well with all the traps and things.
The only thing that let it down for me was the lighting which verged on a bland wash almost throughout. That's a shame as it could have looked very dramatic with this architecture if the light looked more like it was actually coming from the the apparent light sources.
Very good in all other respects :)
I guess I thought they were too "busy" and tended to clash with the designs a bit. Also a bit too "bold" in their style with strong contrasts and stuff which makes them look more cartoony than some Egyptian / temple textures. And the complexity of the textures put me off hunting for secrets, as everything looked like it could be a secret trigger.
Actually, come to think of it, the "cartoony" look is probably the biggest problem with them...
But it's good aside from that.
Download Troubles & Lighting
I noticed also that several of the d/l links at PuLSaR's site have a problem. You get redirected to some other site where the file doesn't exist.
I use GetRight and the trick seems to be to make the downloader build the referer reply from the d/l URL instead of the currently open page. Then it works fine. Look in the downloader's config for this.
This behaviour is different on different sites, I think often used to prevent remote linking.
As for the "bland" lighting, you can blame me. PuLSaR wanted a darker, more classic high-contrast lighting but I talked him out of it. You can check the original balance in the start map.
I'm well aware of that lighting seems impossible to get to everyone's liking. On my GeForce3 setup this looks very good and promotes the architecture instead of hiding it.
GlassMan, Phait: What engine and graphic card do you use?
Can someone please send me a zipped savegame file where you get the SZ_GetSpace ... error upon loading?
When you get the error, does it prevent you from continuing or do you retry until it works?
If you get stuck, please try my engine GLQuake 1.20 and see if it helps. I've specifically tried to fix this error. Savegame files should be compatible.
I've found the problem now. It probably only happens in Hard skill due to more entities. Several engines (GLQuake 0.97, FitzQuake, WinQuake) seems to have a problem with this but my GLQuake 1.20 seems OK.
If it happens, you can either restart and hope it disappears (it often does) or switch to my engine.
I believe the only way to fix it is to either modify the engines (developers), reduce # entities in Hard (PuLSaR) or switch to Normal skill (players).
Possibly it helps to use a progs.dat that removes corpses while playing (like in 100brush).
I cant for the life of me get this to download.
A mirror would be really appreciated.
I'm using fitzquake v75 and the card is a Geforce4.
Like you say it's a matter of taste but, especially in medieval or egyptian styled maps, I prefer the light to look like it's coming almost wholly from the sky, flames or light fixtures or whatever the source is. (As a generalisation, I put bright lights with high 'wait' values on each of the main light fittings & then low value fill in lights only to ensure all the main floor areas are lit. Areas away from lights recede to darkness.)
The light here is too even - it's not used to guide the player's eye or to throw the architecture into dramatic relief. Walls next to light fittings look the same brightness as walls well away from them. I'm speaking generally of course - some areas are better than others but showing off architecture is not a matter of ensuring its all evenly lit.
Having said that I should repeat that I really enjoyed playing the map. Well done Pulsar :)
Just Played Through It
and it was great fun, very good looks, textures, atmosphere and gameplay overall. 3 secrets found including the secret ending but I haven't found a way to get 100% kills (it doesn't seem possible).
I was afraid that the jumping puzzles and traps would be detrimental but they weren't at all, just like in gmsp3.
And I still have the opinion that the lighting looks great on my setup. Any darker overall and it would've been unplayable in many areas. I hope that not all find it too bland.
Maybe I should clarify about the lighting. PuLSaR did all the hard work with positioning and tweaking all individual light entities and I just suggested this balance from the light tool.
If you want to see how the original light balance looked, just run
light -extra4 -sunlight2 50 -dist 1.1 menk
On my rig this takes about half an hour.
Great map PuLSaR!
i want to play this map again [on hard again] so i will probably try your Glquake 1.20 aguire.
If You Used
GLQ 0.97 before, just make sure you set the desired gamma from the command line (e.g. I use -gamma 1.1) otherwise it'll probably be too dark. Please also check the readme.
Btw, while playing through this map and reloading saved games, I noticed it's pretty slow to load even on a modern machine. I wonder if this is related to the SZ_GetSpace problem?
Just as an example of how different systems have very different brightness, I use the above mentioned gamma 1.1 on my old Voodoo2 system but gamma 0.6 on my main GeForce3. This still yields pretty similar brightness using my GLQuake 1.20 in both cases.
But like others I also found the ligthning to bland.
I just played through it again after running ligth with aguirRes suggested settings for the original light. It was very good I much prefer this light setting over the one in the zip.
Other than that I really enjoyed the map overall - really good work PuLSaR!
hated the lighting so I did what aguire said and compiled the light again. Looked a lot better, maybe the defautl settings just dont work with idgamma.
Anyway, fantastic level! The design is great and it's quite a challenge, I found it pretty hard on medium.
As for the textures, the originals are great but the conversion to the quake palette is not too kind. But they look better when you recomplie the light, the cartoony look is less pronounced than with the default lighting.
good work pulsr, it would have taken ages to build this beast.
Wow, this is enormous! Gameplay was great - monsters kept popping out all over the place - I would have prefered a bit more health/ammo overall though.
Architecture looked very impressive, huge and complex, a feature no doubt enhanced by the rather busy looking textures, which I thought looked great btw. I'm afraid I have to echo the familiar comment about the lighting - it needed a lot more contrast and it seemed fairly sourceless, like a sort of washed out radiosity effect.
There was so much to look at in this map - I was particulary impressed by the striking visuals in the Crystal-Maze-like jumping/mover puzzles. Little touches like the dead marine at the bottom of the pit showed great attention to detail.
Excellent work :)
This Map Rocks
yes, it rocks.
large, with funneh gameplay. with GOOD textures.
/me stares at Shambler.
hey u LOTW bitches, go write LOTW for it!
Man That's Huge. Here's A Demo
That's one large map! Beautiful textures, architecture that's fun to jump on... I was surprised a couple of times by some enemies that dropped out of nowhere and nearly killed me...
It's one of those maps where someone from sda makes a speed nightmare 100% demo that you can watch while you enjoy a bowl of popcorn =)
I recorded my first run on the map... I thought I was close to the end when I died but that was wrong... The map never ends! Great! I died short after the "hyper cube" elevator. http://www.mandelmassa.net/other/menk.dz
is a 9 minute demo recorded with JoeQuake, which btw had no problems with this map whatsoever!
hope the dm map will be also great like this one! :) can wait to see that!
Just played through the map and had a lot of fun. Ammo when I needed it and enough health to survive the last battle... even for me.
Nice map, definatly one I'm going to play again.
Incredibly enjoyable map. Instant classic. Gameplay was superb and the vistas were very impressive. So naturally I had to go and make a half-assed speedrun of it =)
Here's the easy run of Menk in 4:14. It aint a nightmare100%, but perhaps it's worthy of a bag of popcorn =)
mwh was kind enuff to point out a secret quad and a whoppin shortcut, so I made new run. Time 3:39.
But I'll stop bothering you guys now =)
Still Can't Find All The Secrets Though
I've got all the kills, but only 5/7 secrets. Good job hiding them! (though I guess having a level this big is a good start).
Kay & Mandel: thanx for demos :) I enjoyed watching them a lot
mwh: well, some secrets there are really hard to find. To be honest they were even harder to find, so thank my betatesters for showing me that fact. If you (or anyone else) want to find more secrets, mail me and I'll give you some keys.
If you haven't played the map yet you maybe don't want to read this...
I also only found 5/7 secrets and that includes taking a peek in the .bsp :-)
I found 100H in lava, ring in the wall, quad in the roof, YA in the water, secret exit and a red armour in a wall which I cannot work out how to get to. The last secret I have no idea what or where it is.
General comments: Lovely level, and that includes the lighting. The look and feel were consistant and good and even though I despise jumping puzzles I didn't find these too hateful.
I agree with something Shambler said which was that there were so many decorations that looked like they should have been secret openers that I soon got fed up even trying to find secrets. :-)
heh, the last secret is 100H in the corridor leading to the large hall. It's in the one of traps where walls drop to reveal ogre and 2 hellknights. Look up often there, you'll see the secret and the button somewhere near (also close to the ceiling)
And the RA secret opens by the button (brick with a different texture) that you may find near the water (look back when you get out of water)
And thanks for other comments:)
Anyone for nightmare run?
i love to make, but my perfect configs is in fuhquake in joequake i can make bunny as well as in fuhquake :( i�m a dm player that somethimes play single...
and in multiplayer with joequake give this error!<<SZ_GetSpace: 8014 is > full buffer size>> there is no way to fix it?
See Earlier Posts
for more info and solutions. It's probably fixable in the map, but it might not be easy. Most likely it'll affect gameplay in Hard skill.
Found 'em All, In The End
Even with your hints, finding the button for that 100H secret was pretty tough :-)
Great map, btw. Who's going to take on the NH?
What about trying to get to the switch overlooking the lava pool much sooner, e.g. using multiple Voreballs to get up there??
That sounds possible, but probably somewhat difficult. If the map was added at SDA we may get to see it. But I'm not gonna run it unless there's a record to break =)
I'm not going to bother doing anything unless it increases my cocksize!
Whell in that case, judging from the evidence one can only assume...
...that you've never done anything, ever!
Apart From Your Mom
(come on, beat that!)
This map is huge. Although not really a fan of egyptian themed maps in Quake 1, I like gameplay of this one, visuals being solid.
Those links lead to (most probably) spyware nowadays. At least in a Gecko browser (Firefox, K-Meleon) clicking on them wants to install a addon. Here:
PS: I really love this map. It's got so many different aspects of Quake gameplay stuffed in it.
fixed the URLs
Wow, This Map Came Out 4.5 Years Ago!?
That makes me feel old.
Still an awesome map!
Sock, I guess you saw this one but in case you dont... it uses yours egypt textures!
just don't look at comment 4.
I wish PulSar would come back or would have at least announced retirement. I still feel guilty about taking so long to release Arcanum which, containing his final released map, took an extra 2 years to come out because of me.
I Also Would Like Him To Return
Isn't he into HL2 mapping or something now?
I remember wasting hours on this one. Awesome map.
I had a poster of this map on my wall for a while. Loved this back then!
Lets Record Demos
...one of my all-time favourites. All around superb map. Wish Pulsar made more.
skill 1 demo(s)
Was good. I have played it before too.
I come to like smaller maps with 50 or 60 monsters.
First Run Demo
Not quite as intense as Anhk's map, but still very enjoyable :) I died once, due to my curiosity of falling into traps.
Recorded in Enhanced GLQuake.
Skill 2 Demo
noclipped to avoid 1 stupid death.
152 monsters killed
Have to agree with Shamb that the secrets in this are particularly tricky as everything looks like a secret. Not so much the texture set's fault - more due to architecture style, rather inchoate visual language... maybe also due to lighting - lighting cues could have been used more.
Lighting of course is crazy flat. minlight is super high.
All that said, significant meaty gameplay and architecture with great infights, arenas and what not. I'd forgotten how fun this map is!