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Quake Coagula Contest 2!
What!? The second Quake Coagula Contest. Coagula maps are maps made floating in a space void. If you want to download the first Coagula Contest to get some inspiration, ideas, make sure you understand what a coagula map is... then click this link:

When!? From Now: Dec 28th 2002 - Until March 1st 2003 (all maps must be sent to me by March 1st, 2003).

Rules!? Not many really. Map has to be a Coagula Map! Maps MUST be singleplayer as a minimum, deathmatch is optional. However, I am going to judge them based on there singleplayer gameplay aspect only. All maps must have a readme with them. maps should be playable in standard software and glquake.

Theme!? You can build in any theme you want, use custom textures etc etc ... coagula maps are all about using your imagination, the deliberately surreal setting should inspire you. Download the coagula contest pack above, as already mentioned, if you need more ideas.

etc. The pack with be released on March 2nd. Your map MUST be finished and sent to me by March 1st. If you plan to make a map, please post here, or somehow tell me so I can be sure of who and who not to expect maps from. I want every who maps to get their map into the pack.

Discuss kthx.

(note: this has been reposted from Qmap3, (for the original thread, see ), as people seem to be moving/posting here now.)
can you edit the links in the above post so they work, please. 
Slightly Concerned 
I've started a little something I call Shaft, partly inspired by a drawing by H R Giger that I saw years ago. It's basically a huge (768x768x2048) square tube, with a few side chambers.

Would something like that be suitable for the contest? 
i know the drawing, and i considered making a level from it long ago. I never was confident that it would look good in quake, though. Good luck. 
Fat Controller 
Yes, i will allow it to be suitable, just because its you. =)

the concept sounds relatively unique in terms of quake mapping and also very interesting. 
Well, OK, But... 
I've never been able to find the bloody image since. So, whatever I come up with won't be all that biomechanoid, I don't think.

(Hang on... Lemme get Pox's tex out again...) 
the 'shafts' series of pictures wasn't biomechanical at all. At least, the actual architecture wasn't -- i found a picture here that has some organic stuff IN the shafts, but not really part of it:

here's a totally unrelated page: 
I would like to step in for a sec here and clarify something. Excerpt from the Coagula3 text file "The creation
of these levels follows in the same vein as that of the gameplay. The maps themselves are
an excercise in spontaneous creative impulse. I simply sat down and drew a quick sketch
of the map, found some textures that inspired me, and threw down brushes. Perhaps the maps
aren't as detailed as some of my other work, but the sheer impulsive creative energy that
went into these maps has inspired much of my other more polished work. For me these maps
stand as a testament to taking some risks and doing things that might not be the standard."

Essentially anything with a void beneath it, and dm starts, and a non-traditional theme-concept behind the construction would be a coagula style map. The key is quick....I think I spent about 2 weeks working each time. It might show in some cases....but that quick loose slapping down of brushes, was fullfilling. I guess I would say that I consider Coagula maps to be more like quick sketches one would throw down in their sketch book.

I don't know if that helps any of you....but I am excited to see the results of the contest. I really enjoyed the first go around. 
Damn Carriage Returns! 
sorry about the formatting. 
interesting ideas and concepts.

so......any chance of the creator of the concept entering the contest? you still have 6 weeks or so to march 1st.

Anything to drag you out of your Q1 mapping retirement. ;)

Although i remember looking at your old website and you talking about how busy you are now with school/learning new stuff. 
No...I Won't Be Doing Q1 Mapping Anymore Sorry. 
Unfortunately my Q1 mapping days are over. So I won't be contributing anything to the contest. Too many other things going on with school and all. 
good stuff :) 
I likes the looks of it! 
Thumbs Up Necros! 
and the usage of textures are in places quite innovative (at least to me..) 
tell me its inspired by the mine set in indiana jones. oh, it isnt...ok but is there a coal cart (or whatever its called) on tracks that dissapear in a black hole?

no? bwaaaa...sigh! bwaaaaaaa....

post a screenshot of the opposite side. would be interesting. 
I Like Screenshots.. 
Been looking again at the screenshots....I really like this design. Maybe you could replace the single solid beam above the arches that connects to two, with a thinner beam, or two thin beams....then again the thick beam might enhance the claustorphobic feeling I get from this perspective. Either way, I like the feeling. 
Here's Another Shaft Picture: 
glQuake is too limiting, can I make a map for another engine ?
<sheep> ? 
As Surely As You Can Write Your Own Name! 
Is that pic a contribution to the "no arms in Irak" debate?

sorry bad joke, nice pic who's the artist? 
I Guess... 
You can make a map for another engine. 
It'd be good if it runs perfectly well on standard Quake though, since otherwise it removes a number of people from the possible play base. 
Yes ... 
absolutely correct nonentity. the map should run on standard quake as well, everyone should be able to play it. 
i'd guess Giger... but i don't really know much of his stuff. 
The man who made them spectacular designs for Alien (the first movie) yes could be.. 
see those syringes? they're armed with biological weapons!
(yes, it's Giger) 
Shaft Is In Trouble 
And I'm not talking the badass from TV.

Another possible job (this one paying) has cropped up, so I'm gonna go for that. That's two oppos in the same week!

And, also, I'm suffering from CD-burners. Nurse! Nurse! More MP3s!

(Mind you, I have to rethink a fair bit o' Shaft...
it's giger. These are the shaft pictures fatty and i were talking about earlier in the thread. 
Me look for paper bag with holes for eyes...
big holes 
Hey, Fatty 
I started a map just like that for two different games, and both were named Shaft. :) 
Unofficial Giger Gallery 
1500 brushes and I hit the wall.
One three level "atrium" to go.
Stecki versus Ogro = demonpunk.
But what combination to populate it with SP?
Could be a bit unconventional *shrug*
"Disrupted Coagulation"
Will try and see this through. 
Very Nice 
i hope all of you agree it's art. i think it's also a lot of imagination.

it reminds me of all the macabre surreal things which objectively seem so scary and bad but actually show a persons brain in full activity (including its evil thoughts which we can't control: if you believe freud and other philosophers words anyway...) 
"shaft" inspiration:

"In the stairwell of my parents' house in Chur was a secret window, which gave onto the interior of the Three Kings Hotel next door, and was always covered with a dingy brown curtain. In my dreams, or nightly wanderings, this window was open and I saw gigantic, bottomless shafts, bathed in a pale yellow light. On the walls, steep and treacherous wooden stairways without banisters led down into the yawning abyss"

No doubt Giger would have been an excellent mapper. ;)

Looking at some of the artwork, there is a clear link to Quake, the combination of organic with mechanical, the overall mood of darkness, surreal images and a nightmarish, lurking quality - especially similar to the Quake 1 monsters. 
Coag Monsters... 
Always use fiends! It is fun to make them jump off ledges! POP! And think about speedrunners... 
Do not think about the speedrunners. Those maps are generally much less interesting.

Instead, DON'T think about the speedrunners -- neither think about blocking them nor about aiding them. 
How About Suspended Ogres 
grenades bouncing on the ground and then into the void (hopefully without showing too many invisible floors...). 
Just A Quick Reminder 
to everyone that you have ONE MONTH left to the deadline for submitting maps to me; March 1st. 
fookin' school work takin' time away from mah mappin'... 
I don't know. From the looks of things, schoolwork isn't having much of an impact at all. 
well, suffice it to say i would have been finished by now if it weren't for exams... but point taken. ;) 
necros, i'm finding that after exams at uni i'm having to use milling machines and lathes all my spare time. ok, admittedly the formula student is not compulsory but boy do i wish a day had 48 hours and i was on some kind of drugs to keep me awake that long without sleep (like the baddie in Die another day, shit film btw!!) 
it was to do with his nightmares...i got carried away 
Ya, paying the rent can be a drag sometimes. 
New Deadline: March 14th! 
just because i feel like it, i am gonna put the deadline for submitting maps to me back by 2 more weeks, as i have the vague (probably completely incorrect) impression some people may be struggling to find the time to finish by march 1st.

The new deadline is now MARCH 14TH, map pack will be relased march 15th.

Final note: there will be NO more extensions or changes to the deadline!! 
Oh, Cool. 
yeah, i might be able to finish on time now.

i haven't really worked on it much since i last posted that screen shot... anyway, with this extra time, i'm going to try again. 
I'm Gonna Try This... 
I've been in a perfectionist rut with trying to do my own first SP map so I'll take a break and try this.

BTW I wrote a different story for that SP map, I'm not sure when it's going to be released but I am promising you guys it will be released which means I really have to flesh out the environment and know what I'm aiming for. 
Good Luck Phait 
remember the map doesnt have to be perfect...(i just checked out your website). just get some brushes down and do your best. 
please buy yourself a new pc phait! site's great and funny! yea, as UW said just slap some brushes together before you get bogged down with work/school/women/beer/etc 
how? lol 
you could always make the textures for the contest if you dont get time to lay brushes...
then the maps could be in one consistent tex set. 
It's Alive! 
Eleven minute BSP. Then I left it vising as I headed off to work (friend Jack has yet to change over his sys, so I'm still using the peddle driven Celeron). doesn't leak :)

All going well with the vising, I'll run tyrlight over it tonight and try for a few screenies. Hopefully they'll be up on Pipeline in a couple'o'days.

Bad news...with so much more to go in terms of entity and light work, I doubt there'll be DM implementation (the r_speeds are prolly going to be way too high with this version anyway). However, I'll get a DM only conversion up for QuakeFest2003 :) if there's enough interest.

Scraggy and Kell: you can expect an alpha next Tuesday.

Dilvish: You up for a beta? 
It's Alive! 
Eleven minute BSP. Then I left it vising as I headed off to work (friend Jack has yet to change over his sys, so I'm still using the peddle driven Celeron). doesn't leak :)

All going well with the vising, I'll run tyrlight over it tonight and try for a few screenies. Hopefully they'll be up on Pipeline in a couple'o'days.

Bad news...with so much more to go in terms of entity and light work, I doubt there'll be DM implementation (the r_speeds are prolly going to be way too high with this version anyway). However, I'll get a DM only conversion up for QuakeFest2003 :) if there's enough interest.

Scraggy and Kell: you can expect an alpha next Tuesday.

Dilvish: You up for a beta? 
Can it be in a spaceship with no actual outing into the void?

I haven't even started, I don't know how the map is going to explain why you're in a void and what your goal is.. I'm just not creative with these circumstances... 
Sorry Must Be In A Void really, no can't be in a spaceship, sorry.

To be a coagula map it must be in a void, free floating in space.

Download the coagula contest 1 pack from the above link in my first post if you need ideas/inspiration.

You dont need a story.
You just need a map and monsters and gameplay. :)

If you really must have a "story"....
If i may borrow a favorite story of mine, from Cube (FPS by Aardappel) "You kill stuff. The end" :) 
ok.. but i love putting a plot in so there'll be one anyway 
You might also want to check out CZG's asteroid map from 100brush2, as it was technichally a void map :)

There are some "inside" sections to that map, where one is not in danger of falling into the void, but most of the action happens on the exterior of the 'roid or various architectural elements set into the 'roid.

It only took 100 brushes. 
if you opt for more indoor sections, make sure it's at least 50/50 between indoor and void. 
that's my interpretation of a 'coagula' style map, btw... ;) 
Necros has it about right....just think interior sections, with exterior bits winding anround and jutting out here and there. Architecture takes a second place to beefed up gameplay. Think 2 fiends coming at you with scrags urinating on you from above...and an ogre or two for good measure. 
listen to what ELEK says, not me.

Apart from being one of the best Q1SP mappers ever(!), he also invented the whole "coagula" concept/idea. 
dare I say Ritual (ex Hypnotic) invented it with hipdm1 map from Scourge of Armagon 
Yeah, sure, send in the beta! I've got a bad flu that's fucking up the few neurons I have left, but as long as I don't try to play your map with the Diablo 2 engine, I guess I'll be able to give you some thoughts.
mail it here: arnaudml at aol-dot-com
Oh and give your mail a distinctive title like DISTRANS or something, as I delete all the spam I get first thing in the morning, and I still may be a a bit sleepy :) 
I've b0rked my mail addy:

here it is (hopefully):
arnaudml1 at aol-dot-com

let's see if this is right now 
All Right, That's It. 
bloody flu 
Correct (levelord in fact if my memory serves me).

Although I was given to understand what made Coagula different from space maps was that it was DM & SP... 
Just To Cover My Ass I Never Claimed To Have Invented Space Maps... 
I even give all influencial credit to a DM map DaMaul created in the readme files. I never really played the hipnotic dm map prior to Coagula, I only learned of its existence post Coagula.

The thing that set coagula maps apart for me was the Single Player gameplay style which tends to be frantic, and the construction element which tends to be just as frantic. While most of my other maps took months to build, I rarely took longer than 2 to 3 weeks to construct a Coagula map. They were more like gesture drawings for me. Rough architecture enhanced by fast paced gameplay in a void which made things interesting.

As a matter of fact the first Coagula map started off as a DM map and I just could not resist offering an SP element, I am not a fabulous DM mapper, and the map certainly lent itself more to SP than DM. 
Thanx For Clarifying Elek 
i will just shut up. 
Unpronounceable Fuhs 
nonentity: I was convinced that HipDM1 was also both DM and SP. I thought it was both the only DM level in the pack as well as a secret level in the SP game.

On a different thread, I'm beginning to wish that I had more time so that I could review maps. My opinions on which map is best and what constitutes a good map seems to directly contrast that of most people. Moreover, when someone does bring up these issues, they do so only briefly. 
I May Have To Bow Out 
Sorry... but my entry is going nowhere.

Frankly, I have ten months before Ontranto is due, and that means I'm thrashing on getting at least one map (FC1M1) completed as well as most of the QC.

As my Coagula entry is not even 50% complete, I'll have to bow out.

Also, I'm still waiting to hear about a possible night-fill position, so if I get that there'll be even less time for me to stuff about with competitions.

Maybe you'll see it as a secret map. But I doubt it. 
well, thats sad if you cant find time, you still have a couple more weeks... 
it could be a secret map. 
Indeed HipDM1 can be played in SP mode (just played it)

'On a different thread' I would be happy to know what you think makes or brakes a map. You could do a list of the maps that blew your head off and explain why you picked them with some analysis from mappers pov (as opposed to the general reviews aimed at the average player) 
this is frustrating as fuck.. i drew out the map and it still sucks..

but i'm not giving up.. what happened to my creativity?! 
It can?

Oooh, didn't know that, my bad.

RPG, then start one. 
Actually, nm, didn't see the reason why you won't start a site 
Yeah, I'm Not Too Pleased Either 
Still, if I get a) a temperature drop and b) some more inspiration, I may keep trying. 
pass it on to phait so he can combine it... 
A Look At My Level... 
but please read the more info :(

The maker of Tx/TreeBSP has offered assistance (/me hugs Bengt) and we'll see how it goes. 
This Is The Most Frustrating Mapping Attempt Ever 
maybe it's the theme i don't know.. i've done perhaps 3, 4, 5 attempts at this friggen contest and i hate all my efforts. hell i thought i had some hope today - it was sketched out and i saw it working - at least it looked good on paper.. you're dropped onto a platform, a set of lights flick on - then another, then 8 monsters drop in.. kill them, bridege comes up - onto platform 2, much large - a maze.... proceed through maze through opposition - darkly lit maze at that, moody.. find silver key.. once this is found, half of maze drops level with floor - then monsters were to spawn in by sets - kill 1 set, more come, then more, etc etc.. until the last 3 shamblers were taken care of.. then a small teleport platform arrives and end-game.

that was the idea, i only got as far as having the maze drop until i realized it sucked.

i guess i'm only good for deathmatch. yay. 
It ain't gonna happen in time, but thanks for running the comp - I now have the solid bones of another level for QT00 (once I de-void the thing that is).

Dilvish, Kell and Scraggy: You won't be bombarded with last minute betas from me :(

GL to all who were able to finish. 
man, thats a shame, teh screenies at the pipeline looked much more time would ya need? 
Damn, 1 Week 
I haven't done jack shit for this, but I REALLY want to. It's just the whole idea of a Coagula map is severely limiting me creatively. 
If you do end up postponing... say to the end of March, then I should be able to finish my entry. Then again I haven't mentioned that I was working on it until now, so don't delay the whole thing on my account if everyone else is ready. I can always release later. 
New Deadline (again,heh) :) APRIL 3RD 
As i understand it, Kell and probably Necros both could do with a bit more time as well.


approaching out of the cold dark mist, came a slithering faceless thing, gibbering and pawing at the ground, slime and pus oozed from its belly, leaving a trail behind it. As tall as a man and nearly as wide as well, as it finally emerged form the darkness everyone coud see what it was:

A New deadline for the coagula contest:

APRIL 3rd.

As it came closer it muttered a terrible groaning which the frayed consciousness of those present could dimly recollect on future, happier days as saying:

"I have given you all more time, especially you distrans, your map looks awesome, please try to finish it." 
And You Fatty. (i Havent Forgotten You!) 
i want an entry from you too! 
more time for me to delete approximately four hundred and thirty one attempts at this coagula map wishing for my satisfactory creation. 
My problem isn't just time's really the Worldcraft bug. I installed shiny nu drivers, but nae luck wi' WC :(
Looks like I should pursue the 'Gtk 4 Q1' option. Can I ha'e twa vershuns o' Gtk installed, wun fir Q an' wun fir Q3A? 
You can use Projects for your one GTK install. One project setup for Q1, and one for Q3. Just load a different project when you want to edit the other game.

Or you can install QERadiant and GTKRadiant at the same time. That works. I dunno if two GTK installs will work, though. 
Ok Then, I'm In. 
I might post some screenshots later... 
i was crapped on with work all week and i haven't even touched gtkr.
with the march break on now, maybe i can do the whole thing! (heh, yeah right.) but with april 3 the deadline now, it's much more probable that i can finish it.

thx, uwf. 
Here We Go Again 
I'm dropping the idea of Shaft and returning to something more classical now. Now I think I'll manage to finish something after all... 
But it won't be the one with the screenies on pipeline, I've already started converting that into another level for the QT00 episode.

Knave textures this time, much smaller effort.

Speedy: Can I use the dome I sent through for the Joint Turtle Map? Please! I'll understand if you prefer not, and still intend to glue/overbuild that collection of .maps =) 
Two. On my site -

Need more sleep... 
the lighting in that first shot is brilliant, nice work with the texturing too.

and what's that other map you have a shot of just below, can recognise the texture set either? 
I love your Agressor DM map :) Downloading Escape from Alcatraz and uh I forget the name of the other one but you went 'all out on looks' on that one *drool* 
That other shot is from a pak that Tronyn, Necros and I are working towards for QExpo 2003. Tronyn pulled the texture set together, but I'm not too sure of all the sources.

Phait: thanks! 8) 
i really like the bridge in the second shot! and yes, i too love the light work in the 1st shot. maybe, though, you could cover the torches on the walls and throw some odd shadows down? 
<pushplay> if it's delayed a whole nother month even I'll make one :) 
You Do Realize..... 
the more delays, the more freedom to be lax about the thing? Sometimes deadlines give us that extra creative push.

But this is merely my opinion, and it's probably not worth more than a few Osama raped donkeys. 
i heard an Osama raped donkey fetched $2000 on eBay actually 
pushplay....give us a map ;) 
If You Delay It 
The map will come. It's not that I'm trying to be controlling or anything, it's because I'm up to my ass in school work. 
I'm Out 
I so wanted to do this but the idea is limiting for me, I can't even think.

Oh well. Can't wait to see the results from others though. 
This Is *damn* Hard! 
Wow, I'm really struggling to pull the last few bits of this map together. It's almost impossible to place any vis-blockers and retain that open feel. I'm not even sure that my build style is strictly "coagula-ish", but it's certainly not my usual kind of stuff.

That said, these limitations and challenges are what makes this competition fun =). I've still got plenty of time to finish, as long as vis doesn't require some rediculous amount of time. Current builds take about 30 hours... 
check your email ;) 
Oops! Better Get Moving! 
I've finally built something that could work fairly well, but the lighting is gonna have to be completely redone (so's the texturing, but...)

I would have done more this week, but I was letting out some Ontranto buildings. 
Mapper Is Mapping A Map 
i`v been doing spacemap but I hate it already.. 
1 Week Left 
I've got the layout finalised and I'm adding the last few bits of trim, detail, etc. Still have to work on the different difficulty settings and then add in some deathmatch goodies if there's time. I think I'll be done on time, but vising this thing is going to be hell.

How's everybody else going? 
I dunno what kind of comp you have, but if you need processor time, there's a TBird 1.1ghz, 512mb box sitting here to help you out. 
It's behaving itself so far. Properly vis blocking the next section will be key though.

Looks like you've got a finisher there Tyrann, good luck. 
Thanks, I might take you up on that. I have a PIII750, so you're quite a bit faster. If I get time to polish up a few things tonight I'll drop you an email. Do you mind getting the bsp in your mailbox? (probably ~1MB) 
Thanks =)

Good luck yourself! I don't even know if my vis-blocking is working properly as I haven't wanted to tie up my computer too long compiling - I need the mapping time ;)

Even if the r_speeds are rediculous, it was still a fun experiment. 
You Can Always 
run vis in the background and set its thread priority to "Below normal". That way everything you do in the editor or whatever will execute as normal, but as soon as the machine gets idle, vis continues at full speed.

Just make sure vis is working on a separate copy of the bsp+prt ... 
That's true. I'd gotten so used to mapping under Win98 that I didn't even think of that. (Win98's scheduler is crap). 
BSP in my mailbox is fine. I'm on Hotmail, so I have a 2mb cap on my inbox, which is 18% full. So that leaves about 1.82mb. Should be plenty. rpg_6sp AT hotmail DOT com

If you still want me to do it, I have a few questions:

1. Is there any particular VIS prog you want me to use? I normally use Bengt Jardrup's v2.15 VIS.

2. Do you want me to light it, too?

3. Any idea on how long VIS will take? I'm trying to get an idea so that I can be at my comp when it finishes and get the compiled .bsp back to you ASAP. 
Oh, It's Possible In 
Win9x too, but then you'll need some kind of Task Manager substitute; I can recommend TaskInfo2003 that is located at . It works in all 32-bit Windows platforms.

But I agree in general that NT-based OSes are more stable than Win9x. 
1. Bengt's RVis will be fine.
2. No, I'll light it. That part doesn't take too long.
3. I really have no idea, since I haven't even tried it yet. Maybe 24-36 hours?

I didn't get any time to map last night, but I'll try to get something sent tonight. We can discuss anything else via email now I suppose. 
It's Possible in win9x only in theory (or if you dont use your puter much). ffs win9x runs out of ram when you only listen to winamp, wasting ~200mb out of 256 on disk cache. I tried doing long vis in backgrouid couple of times, the system either crashes or becomes very slow overall with time.. 
It's Official: I'm Out 
Ontranto's swallowing all my mapping time, so my *third* attempt is down the gurgler.

However, I still have Shaft in an imcomplete state, so I might release it some other time. 
Sorry to hear that, Fatty. I was really looking forward to it. :(

Hopefully you'll have time to complete it some other time. 
well, i dunno if i'll be able to finish on time... i'm gonna try though. we'll see then.

good luck to everyone else though.

it's too bad to hear that you won't be participating, Fat Controller... 
My Map 
man...had a cool map. lost of detail! cool textures and brushwork, hell, its my first map! and i couldnt believe how awesome it got to be. so, after one final "polishing" i compile the level, and the screen goes black! i figure, "what the hell, must be working" but it just fucked itself. turn it off after a few hours and nothing! black screen... a new pc and well. no map. tried to make it all over again, but its just not the same. 
you got a new computer because one of your quake maps crash the game? 
No, I Think You Misundersand... 
I read that as:

The dog ate my homework... 
no man. the pc fucked up! doesnt work anymore. when i turn it on, its just a black screen with a white line blinking.

got a virus or something. not much of a technical dude so i cant really tell whats wrong. it was an old computer anyway... 
Surprisingly, the dog ate my homework too ! 
In that case, your map is probably still there on the old hdd. Get someone to help you hook it up to the new pc and you should be able to salvage it. 
Is anyone working on a start map for the pak? If so, should I put the name in the "map" field of the trigger changelevel on my map?

Are we going to have custom progs like the other coagula pak (e.g. to remove dead enemies after a short time to improve speed)?

If yes to the progs, can we have it set the r_maxsurfs, r_maxedges variables higher (like czg did for insomnia)? My map will have quite high r_speeds... enough to trigger greyflash in winquake with the defaults. 
I believe there should be a start map and progs.

No, I'm not volunteering. 
Start map: no its not important (to me anyway).

The progs thing couldnt we just use the one from the last coagula pak?

At this point i should probably point out (if you hadnt already guessed!) i am not a mapper, else i would do these things for you guys. 
I think that a start map would be good. It would then draw all the maps together and give them a sort of UI so that you wouldn't have to remember the BSP names. And of course the start map would be named cog2strt or something like that to avoid probs with existing start maps.

Also, please do not require that people have a special progs.dat! I don't think anyone was even thinking about this, though. A progs that would improve the speed, start the next map with just the axe, and bump the values for r_maxsurfs and r_maxedges would be nice. I want to be able to play these maps in QW coop, which is why I say this.

Also, to everyone, please support coop! 
This Sucks. 
How many attempts I've had since I came here and started this map and they've all been wasted hours/efforts...

Why is the potential that I believe I have not being expressed satisfactorily? 
you stress too much 
Seriously Everything I Do.. 
is never good but i'm so determined to not quit cause i have that ability to create great stuff i know it.. im just *not* creating great stuff :| 

last coagula contest had a special progs, fault my own... besides getting rid of monster corpses and restarting the player with only the axe and shotgun, it had the special code for the func_train. 
Progs And Stuff 
Well, so far there's been no mention of special progs required by anyone, so all the maps should be playable with standard progs. It would still be good to get the monster removal and r_max* hacks above though, if possible.

I should be finishing my map today, apart from the final compile, which takes about 2 days in itself. Then I've got a hell of a week at work coming up, so I can't really work on a start map then. If nobody has done anything by the following week and the pak still isn't released, I can work on it.

Can we get an indication from the participants of how many maps we're talking about? I've lost track...

Reading back in the thread I see:

Me - nearly finished, should make it
Fatty - started, says he's now out
Necros - still trying to finish, sounds promising
Distrans - one map failed, second map should make it
Kell - Worldcraft problems...
Phait - Trying, unlikely to finish
Qfanatic - Lost map in a computer crash

Sounds like three maps are likely, and maybe one or two more...

Anyone have anything to add? 
Thanx Tyrann 
i should have posted something like that, but i am pretty busy with real life (TM) myself right now, (after next week should be better). 
I Need To Finish Soon... 
Cause in 2 days I start my first job. Yeah. 
Heh, After All That... 
...looks like I won't be able to finish tonight. And I won't get another chance to map until Thursday due to work 8(.

Anyway, here's another screenshot: 
I had this idea.
The idea was great (to me).
I tried the idea.
Wasn't happy with what I had.
Tried again.
Wasn't happy.
Tried one more time.
Wasn't happy.

I'm out. 
No One Like The Whiners 
nice one speedy. 
I've never heard of anyone making a great map on their first go. You'll get better by doing your best and then releasing and starting a new one, not by beating yourself up. 
Or at least finish them before not releasing them.

My philosophy, which I'm sure people will find fault with, is a good SP map is basically a big steaming pile of stuff, with excellent gameplay. I have little preference for "wow" over "WTF?" as long as it plays good and isn't "blah." 
Yeah, So... I Don't Think This Map Will Be Done On Time... 
maybe you should suggest a, mine dont seem to work. I would really like everyone to get their maps in, but we cant delay the deadline forever..... 
I've started my map - tho the chances of it being finished for -anyone's- deadline is slim :P 
lets set it to july (this year :))
there might be Qexpo2 around that time 
Why Deadlines Don't Work 
It's pretty simple really - because there are an extremely low number of entrants.

If uwf was to just cut off all the people who haven't finished on time, you'd just have a pak with one or even no maps at all. So, pressure can't really be applied like that until at least a couple of people are finished - which is why I'm keen to hear from anybody who is close. I myself am pretty close, with just a bit of lighting and monster/trigger/etc. placement to go.

Maybe if I can finish this week it will help get others moving? 
I've made headway with my map; enough that I've established what I'm doing with it, texture theme, details, etc. But there's no real layout yet.
I'm still dealing with the Q3 -> Q1 conversion thing.
It will be built. 
i guess i was mistaken about deadlines, seems its best just to let things run naturally then.... 
Well, I think you've taken the right approach thus far - i.e. setting deadlines, but being flexible. The current problem is simply that you can't release the pak without enough complete entries. Unfortunately there's nothing you can do about that...

I guess we'll have to wait and see how things progress from here... 
it's just that i don't really want to work on the map anymore... sort of lost the momentum on the sucker i guess...

i'll see what i can do, but with the map still floundering at less than 1000 brushes, and only really one room done, (albeit a big room) this map still has a long way to go.

aw fuck. i'll go work on it now. :) 
Kell, Necros,Distrans Etc.... 
what would you like to do about a deadline?
Do you want to suggest one of your own?

You are all experienced, quality mappers, and i think your maps will be worth waiting for. :) 
truth is, i was trying to finish another map... i get sidetracked pretty easy...

give me a few weeks, anyway, 2 or 3... how's that for everyone else who's still working? does that bother you, Tyrann, to have to wait like this? 
Nah, doesn't bother me. When I'm done I'll just email it to uwf and forget about it. I might spend a bit more time tuning the deathmatch mode though. 
I'm working on it now with some Q2 textures. Gonna add some detail to this bitch. I need to just be patient with myself. I'm glad there's more time though.

But hell, I know we're all impatient to see eachother's work. 
Still Working On It... 
but I've had to put it aside until next Tuesday due to gigs, conferences and my MA supervisor wanting a draft of chapter one ASAP.

Will finish it eventually and would appreciate being able to release via your site uwf at some stage, if not before then definitely during QExpo. 
- - - 
I love deadlines; I love the 'whooshing' noise they make as they go by.
I just want to make my map and send it to uwf. QExpo would be the obvious place to release these. 
no more deadlines, Kell's suggestion of a release of the pack at QExpo2003, seems sensible and wonderful. 
as well as being really cool to have more than a couple of entries. besides, it just means qexpo will be that much more cooler. :) 
So Uh.. 
when's QEXPO 2003? And what is that? ((><)) 
So Uh.. 
when's QEXPO 2003? And what is that? ((><)) 
I'm Sorry.. 
flog me with a barbed wire whip. I found it's site. I am informed. 
QExpo is being discussed at

Most of the discussion is in the Events forum:

It'll be sometime in late June or early July. 
This sounds cool. Unless my memory fails me, Coagula3 was released during the last Qexpo. 
A Request 
i`m having some trouble getting my map started -- do you think we could push the deadline back to the next qexpo? I think by 2005 my map should be ready. I bet some other people could use the extra time, too. 
Metlslime is doing a coagula map. Cannot wait! 
But you`re going to have to wait, at least 2 or 3 years! Actually, can we move that deadline back to 2006? I just started over again, you see. 
Now Now 
I am the poster boy for starting over and over and over and over... 
Hey Metlslime... 
Way to go getting round the no apostrophe thingy.

Now you just need to get those sarcasm tags working... 
if you see metlslime name it already means sarcasm
btw i`v been using "the console key" for apostrophe being sure that its the same 
Bringing Threads Back From The Dead 
I'm throwing my hat into the ring.

How do I get that cool starfield from the first contest's start map? 

i dont know about the starfield.

someone will though.

I extracted the starsky from cogstart.bsp and stuck it in a wad. I also added my own starsky from the knave wad. And a few others of various stellar densities for your perusal :P
6 in total.

Making these is a piece of piss; if you don't like these, dl Universe sharewar from:

and make yer own. You'll need Texmex too obviously.

All these starfields are yours. Use them together. Use them in peace. 
Thanks Kell.

I'd been using Wally up to this point, which lets me open up pak files but not bsps as far as I can tell. There's no good single repository for Quake1 information, it's all over the damn place. 
You can use a utility called bsp2wad, to extract textures from a .bsp file to a .wad file. I can't recall where you can get it at the moment, but could send it to you if you like. 
Thanks Abyss 
But with Wally, Winpack, and TexMex I think I'm covered. 
Bringing Threads Back From The Dead Again 
I've been taking screenshots as I work again. I just like taking screensots. I should have been a photographer. 
Dood it's a Q3A floater!!

I like the pink tho =) 
Q3A Floater 
No, it's way more vertical than that. 
No screens for me at this stage, my machina chokes on the .map :P But I'm sending it off to Scraggy tomorrow so he can crunch it with his sys. Not long now UWF :) I'm definitely having complete DM implementation in line with ELEK'S original notion of what constitutes a Coagula map. 
3.5 hours on Scraggy's sys and me gets a fully compiled alpha.

r_speeds are way up there so if you're allergic to grey flash then no go for anything under "accelerated WinQuake". Apparently not a huge problem for SP...

and biff has accepted the job of DM DJ even with the r_speeds as they are. Player spawns, tele destinations and weapons/armour/powerups are implemented. Biff will further advise on ammo and health placement when Scraggy compiles the beta one.

Community can be a wonderful thing :) 
Need Some Info 
This competition looks interesting.. i'm quite new to mapping but i would be interested in having a try.

A few things however.. i don't know what a 'cogula' map should look like, and that link you posted doen't seem to work, can anyone describe it to me? From the pictures i've seen people post am i right it guessing it's a map set in space.. is there anything else special about the map theme though?

And also, should the finished maps be emailed to the same address you used on your review site?

thanks in advance 
one more thing.. can anyone point me to somewhere where i can download custom textures? i only have the original quake ones.

thanks again 
List of different wads:

Some individual wads: Textures from Oblivion add-on for Quake 2. Created by metlslime Base themed textures by Dave Bulow More base textures, but created by stecki Egyptian textures by sock Base/industrial textures by metlslime 
I would appear that I forgot to mention the wonderful IKBase and IKBlue texture sets, both by the talented Iikka "Fingers" Ker�nen. IKBase IKBlue 
ah...filepanet *subsumed* planetquake links!

thanx for reminding me, i found that out when i updated my hall of fame, try this link:

Send the map to me when you are done, yep same email address. the new plan [forget the old crappy "deadlines" idea] is to have the coagula maps ready for release at QExpo 2003.

And you can find out about Qexpo here:

RPG is a top man, and has provided you will a nice bunch of links for custom textures, which i just sent you an email about before i came here! :) 
Thanks R.P.G. and underworldfan.. those levels are awesome! especialy the rocky/metallic one which came joint third.. that was my favourite, probably favourite single level out of all the ones i've played, does the guy who made it have a profressional mapping job? if not i think he should try and get one :)

R.P.G. i only had the time to download a few of those but i have to say i love those deconwad ones. i've got an idea for a map with them already! i'll get working on it right away :) 
the "rocky/metallic one" is not a very sepcific description!, tell us the file/map name... 
Haha Sorry 
just went and checked.. it's called "The Emptyness Without", and looking at the readme file its by a guy called necros.

also reading that, i noticed that there were two entries by the same author.. does that mean we can submit more than one map? 
ah emptiness without!, reviewed here:

and yes, you can submit as many maps as you desire :) 
necros has a fan... 
Is This Contest Over Yet? 
no, the contest deadline is qexpo now. 
Was A Firm Date For QExpo Set? 
Dates For Qexpo :)

The projected time period of the event is July 6th thru July 12th, 2003 
Oh Good 
Still plenty of time to procrastinate the hell out of this thing. 
Is there a map you'd like me to set for the endlevel trigger? 
So, no start map?

Will they at least be packed up with a progs.dat to remove corpses? 
both the progs.dat and a start map would be more than welcome additions if someone wants to contribute.

I have no skills in such matters. :o 
Corpse Removal... the player's responsibility. You need to drag the bodies into closets and stuff to avoid detection. 
/me adds more closets to the level

As to the start map, if I did one the ensuing fracas around how badly I've treated the less proficient mappers would detract from general enjoyment of the .pak, so pass.

I can send you Aard's nifty little corpse removing progs.dat from 100b1 if you so desire. 
I think just a small rotunda would be good, it wouldn't have to be elaborate.

What's this about corpse removal? This is some aspect of Quake I wasn't aware of before. 
Corpse Removal 
Actually, I rather like hauling them into the nearest atrium and creating an impromptu sculpture. Some of them have gotten quite big. 
I have a half a level that I can finish up into a start map if you want (it was going to be my entry, but I don't have enough time to make a 'real' map out of it) 
sounds good. please go ahead and finish it and email it over to me when you are satisfied. 
Nightbringer == the Shrike

It all maks sense now =) 
Could do with knowing how many maps to link to... 
One From Me 
One From Me 
If you read this, sorry I can't test the map as I don't have Quake accessible - and I can't reply by email as Yahoo is being a complete pile of cunt. GL with it anyway. 
Heh okay I managed to send the mail after all after tinkering a bit ho hum. 
One From Me 

and no problem Shambler... Scraggy sent some demos of a hard run. biff is working on the next stage of DM implementation. ELEK has a copy of the beta and may give feedback if he can squeeze some test time in.

BTW, since this thing is going to be .pak(ed) I assume our levels should point to "start", yes? 
tentivaly one from me as well... 
Fun Fun Fun 
OK, nearly done. Actually I had all the architecture done weeks ago, but I hadn't touched it since. Just spent the last couple of days balancing up the combat; still a bit of ammo/health tweaking to go... Tomorrow night I'll finish that up and finalise the deathmatch items. Then it's time for a full vis - that's a couple of days worth ;-)

Cutting it close as usual...

Is anyone actually 100% done yet? 
Completed Maps 
Anyone who wants to send me maps, please do: 
My Map almost finished. i will try and get it completed tomorrow, if not the day after. 
Little Help? 
Is there anyone out there with a super-fast computer, willing to vis a coagula map for me? I've got it running on my PIII-750 (8761 of 26462: 33%), so it would have to be significantly faster to be worth it.

Email me or reply here if you can help. Thanks. 
I could try it on my shiny new 2.4 Ghz and 512 MB of 400 MHz RAM.
Just send it over and tell me with what tools and options I should compile it. 
Cheers Gom map coming your way. 
You're Welcome Tyrann everything and started compiling it. Base VIS is already done, Full at 15% but it's prolly going to take some time ;).
Will send it back to you once it's done. If you want me to compile more Coagula goodness just shout out. 
...just want to mention that this map is quite a bitch to compile ;). 
Yep, I completely ignored all the rules when I made this one. It's probably going to have r_speeds through the roof as well. If only we had properly working detail brushes in Q1, the compile time wouldn't be so bad.

Hmmm, I just wanted to say that this was a really different experience making this map. I think the contest achieved it's original goal, in that it challenged me to work outside my comfort zone. I'm still not 100% sure that I like the map, but it's ok I guess (just feels a little stale after starting so long ago).

Oh, and if the deathmatch mode is any good, it'll be a miracle. I didn't have anyone around to test with, and bots are completely useless on this map. 
Don't Worry 
My map has two dm spawns, so technically you can DM in it, but you wouldn't want to. Looking back on the map there are some things I would do again and some I wouldn't 
if everyone's dm gameplay stinks, then i'll have a chance! ;) 
Release Date? 
What date is planned for the release of the Coagula pak? I ask because the 6th is listed in the event schedule as "SP maps" day, and the 8th is listed as "More maps" day (for DM and SP). It's already the 6th here down under, and there's still no booths on

My compile is currently at 66% after ~35 hours... I don't know how Gom is doing, but he told me his first attempt bombed out at 56% and he had to start over, but I haven't heard back since. If it's still running he should finish it before me. 
how can it be the 6th? it's only friday here. (4th) 
*looks at calendar; slaps forehead* - doh.

Ok, so it's the 5th here. I guess the booths will appear later tonight or tommorow morning. 
Hey - since I got p|a finished, you still want a redesign? You know where to contact me. 
I have a booth, and i hope to release the coagula map pack during Qexpo.
I have 1 map so far (pushplay)

So its up you guys!

I am *merely* the messenger, not the creator.
I await your *Art* in my email box. =) 
Just Waiting For The Compile To Finish... 
kmshanah@anarchy:~/coagula-compile$ ./rvisplus -level 4 coag_rc1
---- tyrvis v1.0 ---- (Beta version Jul 4 2003 01:28:01)
testlevel = 4
BSP is version 29
3314 portalleafs
13231 numportals
Calculating Base Vis:
Calculating Full Vis:
21963 of 26462: 82%

kmshanah@anarchy:~$ ps -C rvisplus
496 pts/0 2-17:16:30 rvisplus

That's 2 days, 17 hours worth so far.

Gom Jabbar is also compiling for me, but he had some problems earlier. He should finish it before me, so I hope to have a map to send by the time I get home from work tommorow. 
So far I am teh coagula winna! 
Tyrann's Map 
---- tyrvis v1.0 ---- (Beta version Jul 4 2003 (01:28:01)
testlevel = 4
BSP is version 29
3314 portalleafs
13231 numportals
Calculating Base Vis:
Calculating Full Vis:
21339 of 26462: 80%

I never should've said 'Sure Tyrann, just send it over' ;).

80% in 28 hours... Oh my... 
I Don't Know If 
it helps but in lengthy vis sessions, after processing 60% of the portals there are often 80% of time left ... 
i forgot :o

just have some monster placing and some weapons n stuff to throw in, will get it done by tonight if i don't fall asleep too early! :S

i mean it this time hehe 
Oh yes... that helps a lot. I feel way more comfortable now...

/me slaps aguirRe around a bit with 30.5 hours of processor time 
But Hold On.... 
if it's a true coagula map (wide open space floater,) then why even bother vising it? 
why even bother vising it?

Coagula maps do have vis-blockers, they're just not as obvious as other maps (i.e. they try harder to look open). Vising makes a big difference on this map. Unvised, it has r_speeds that top out at 4000-5000, while after vising the max r_speeds drop to around 1500 or so (I hope anyway; that's based on an earlier version, so it may have changed now). 
ah, okay. 
why even bother vising it?

I barely did. 
Sending the .map off to Scraggy for final vis right this minute. Is it OK if I ask him to zip the final .bsp and .txt up then forward to you as a CC: when he returns file?

Also, the corpse remover / level initializer progs.dat should arrive in your box within the hour. 
Vis should take less than 4 hours on Scragbait's system 
What progs are those?

If you made them yourself and you can do the cvar-setting code, can we have:

r_maxsurfs 5000
r_maxedges 7500
gl_subdivide_size 1024

If not, I'll make an autoexec.cfg to go with the pak with those commands in it, plus:

exec ..\id1\autoexec.cfg

Which would have a similar effect. 
Aard's prog.dat ... the one that removes corpses and gibs after 5 seconds, and ensures that each level commences with only shotgun and 25 shells. 
Ok, Thanks. 
I'll send UWF the autoexec.cfg then. That should do the job well enough. 
Tyrann, UnderworldFan 
instead of a autoexec.cfg, just make your own quake.rc

some people (ie: me) use the autoexec.cfg for things...

i (and probably others) would appreciate a quake.rc and a new .cfg file...



UWF, i'm sorry, but i just won't be able to give you my map on time. the compile time for that thing is worse than nesp09, and that map has my priority right now. i still need to light my coagula map too, so i forsee at least a half dozen more compiles...

sorry dudes. i will try and release it some time, but i'm affraid it won't be on time for the contest. 
sounds like they plan to exec your id1/autoexec.cfg anyway. Though, i don't know if exec will accept a .. in the path. 
er... i didn't really understand ya...

anyway, though, all you do is you put a quake.rc in the pak's root dir.

and you write which .cfg files to exec, so exec autoexec.cfg and exec config.cfg are in the regular quake.rc. just add a new exec coagula.cfg or something with the appropriatly named cfg file, add in any vars you want, and then it will work for everyone. 
Autoecec.cfg / Quake.rc 
exec ../id1/autoexec.cfg does work, but I'll look at the quake.rc option as well. 
---- tyrvis v1.0 ---- (Beta version Jul 4 2003 01:28:01)
testlevel = 4
BSP is version 29
3314 portalleafs
13231 numportals
Calculating Base Vis:
Calculating Full Vis:
24983 of 26462: 94%

4 days, 6 hours... 
I Have No Eyes To See 
there is a chance 
Holy Hell, Tyrann, 
you better pray to god nothing untoward happens! those last percentages always take ages!

---- tyrvis v1.0 ---- (Beta version Jul 4 2003 01:28:01)
testlevel = 4
BSP is version 29
3314 portalleafs
13231 numportals
Calculating Base Vis:
Calculating Full Vis:
25864 of 26462: 97%

Running for 68 hours... Going from 96% to 97% took almost 10 hours. 
Your're Now Ahead Of Me 
This has been much worse than I expected... still, at least we're nearing the end. 
Vis Wars 
/me waits for the percent complete to halt completely, and then start going back down 
Compiling all that empty space for the void is what sucks about Coag maps. I imagine this map is going to be really detailed as this vis is taking some time. I look forward to seeing all the maps in action. 
One Question... 
my map is complete but has an error at the end where a 'packet overflow' message flashes up on screen several times and the sounds cut out.. why's it doing this? :( 
I think it's too many ambiant sounds are in that area. 
packet overflow has to do with too many objects on the screen at once. the sound cuts out when that happens. i don't know why.

either you've got lots of gibs or lots of monsters or something like that in the same room. you'll have to reduce the amount of objects to get rid of the error. 
it could be too many corpses thats causing the error... if i remember there was an updated progs.dat in the previous coagula pack that made corpses dissapear 
Packet Overflow 
occurs when the server sends more packets in a single frame than the client will accept. THe result is that the client ignores the rest of the packets. The result of THAT is that the client doesn't get some of the information, like sounds, gibs, or whatever. 
...and Ya, 
Aard's progs.dat will help with the packet overflow so don't fret too much ChAiNeR.

BTW... my level took 12336.0 seconds to level 4 vis on Scraggy's system. Hehe, as ELEK would know - it's tiny but brutal. 
why not use details ? 
There *was* a toolkit which offered detail brush support, but I never got it to work with conventional .maps, and couldn't figure out the editor it was bundled with (Tread, I think it was.) 
btw my vis time was only about 1300 seconds? is that abnormally low? lol

i used level 4 
it all depends on how much detail you've got in there...

it also depends on the -level you choose. 
...compiling Tyrann's map just reached the 100 hour compile time barrier. GO GO GO! 
Hey, I'm almost at the 1-week barrier here... 98%... 
Hehe Tyrann... 
...wait for the 99%, this friggin last percent ist already taking 30 hours or so but I'm already at 26425 of 26462... Hope it's done by tomorrow morning ;) 
Thanks Gom 8). 
I hate you Tyrann... ;)

My explorer just died and I can't do anything anymore. The only apps still open and working are Opera, mIRC and the friggin compiler. I hope it finishes soon so I can reboot.
Can't even start Quake to shoot stuff and calm down... AYEEEEEEEEE!!! 
If You're Using Win2K/XP 
Press crtl-alt-del and click the task manager button; then in one of the menus there (can't remember which one), you can run a task/process; type "explorer.exe" and you should be ok again. 
you can't add proper detail brush (� la q3) without changing the bsp format. The compiler probably did it like in q2 and I think it had something to do with the editor quest(?). 
you could make qbsp spit out an enhanced prt file and have it treat clumps of leafnodes as single leaves -- which they would be if the detail brushes hadn't cut them up. Then vis would do vis testing for a (nonexistant) simplified bsp, and then it would save the PVS for a superleaf as the PVS for all of the superleaf's children.


Q2 style detail brushes might be possible, if all "detail" means is "add me to the bsp after all the structural brushes." I don't know if that's how Q2 detail works, though.

Q3 style detail brushes would not be possible with quake's software renderer. 
~2 Year Old News 
There IS q1 compiler with detail hint/skip support (similar to q2 way, not q3).

You obviously dont care if you never bothered to check it since then, but for open space maps with many details it greatly reduces vis times. 
There Were Lots Of Bad Reports About It... I didn't bother. If the source is available, it might be worth a look so I can incorporate it into a decent qbsp compiler. 
I know that it normally works that way but this time it wasn't. Anyway, vising is finished and I was able to reboot. YAY! ;) 
* quickly adds some co-op starts

qbsp -onlyents tyrcoag

Just writing up the text file, and it's on its way!

(P.S. Gom is a champ!) 
Now all you need to do is finish up that base map from last qexpo... 
Heh, Possibly... 
No promises. 
Meh si teh Champ! Yarr!

Hehe, you're very welcome Tyrann, just don't ask me again abuot compiling one of your maps ;)... 
Tyr-quake R0X0rz... 
A slight correction needs to made to the .txt for discoag2.bsp

The level is VERY suitable for software if you are running Tyr-quake.exe

Tyrann... if you ever find yourself in the Westgarth precinct of Northcote Melbourne Australia. The drinks are on me. 
Cheers, mate.

I sometimes stay in Reservoir, which I think is a little north from there, but I'm not sure how far. Maybe I'll drop you a line next time I plan a trip. 
yay Tyrann! tyr-quake is great! (it rimes!) 
Did you get the start map I sent last night? Since nothing's happened, I thought I'd better check in case something happened to the email... 
Hi Guys! 
i'm trying to finish my coagula map after all, but i need to know:

what map do i have to link to at the end of my map? 
tyrann's start.bsp i guess, is that how it works?

email me/tyrann when ready/with more questions... 
is the map called start then? got it. :) 
Yes, the start map is just start.bsp
What's your bsp name? I'll make another modified start map with the extra teleport. 
...tell me the map's full name; i.e. the value of the worldspawn message key. Thanks. 
"nesp10 - Embers of Cruelty"

but... i have an estimation of about 36 hours for a -level 3 vis, which is more or less accurate... i don't have the time for this vis... so, if someone could do it for me with a faster than 1ghz system? (not right now, most likely tomorow(sunday)) if not, i'll just have to leave it as a -fast vis (ew). (13000 numportals, if that helps any) 
Hey, I e-mailed you, and posted (once) here re: if you still wanted a site redesign :P Sooooo yeah reply! Thanks. 
i can try if you like? i have a 2.4ghz p4 
Just do fast. 
No Title 
thanks alot ChAiNeR! i'll send it to you later today.

pushplay, are you sure you want to play with 4000 wpoly max and 2000 wpoly average? :P 
Because those stats have absolutely no meaning to me. 
2000 average?!? 
if youre reading this, i replied to your mail... i got the map but i need a .prt file in order to vis it! :s 
yeah. i sent it over. it was late last night, and i guess i just forgot! :P

nonentity; yes, but that's unvised. i have no idea how it will play when vised properly... 
just started it now.. had a Base time of 1:12 
I thought that this thing was actually going to be released for qexpo, that's why I rushed the vis. 
Vis Update... 
it's saying it has 23 hours remaining.. although that figure keeps varying.. tonight when i'm not doing anything else at the comp it should go faster. 
don't rely on the estimate until around 36% (on the far right side) i've seen it rise steadily, peg at around 30% and usually settles to something resembling reality at around 36. i don't really know how to read the output that well though, i'd have to ask aguire. 
its on 17% and standing at 29h

mite be a fair wait yet.. 
Work is deathly boring, my thesis is stalled, and my girl and I split last night... Please tell me this little ray of sunshine is going to happen soon. 
Soon, Just Waiting On Necros' Final Compile 
/me points _sun_mangle at distrans 
Necros, What Part 
of the RVis progress update is unclear ? Have you read the readme (near the end)? There is an explanation of the various values. 
it's not really so much as unclear in the meaning, but unclear on which one is the most reliable, since i've seen most of them fluctuate wildly from start to finish... that's why i can't really 'read' the output properly. ;) 
In The Latest RVis 
version 2.18, you can use options "-barpercent" or "-numpercent" to enable a more simplified progress feedback. Then there's no estimation but the percentage values are weighted to make the process look more linear.

Try it and see if you like that better. 
And If All Goes Well, 
my upcoming version 2.19 will among other things have an AutoSave feature, i.e. vis will automatically now and then save its state to disk while it's running, both in Base/Full parts.

In case of force majeure or undesired human/divine intervention, vis can just be restarted and it will load the last saved state and continue from that point. 
That is an excellent idea. 
put her photos in a Q1 level. She'll love you. I guarantee.

Hey it worked for me! -_O 
you could make a crap level and dedicate it to your son for his birthday. 
Thanx Tyrann =)

Phait: err... no 
Underworld Fan: 
saw your email, thought it best to reply here so everyone can see :)

vis on necros's map is going fine, should be going for about another day i think.

heres the last line:

Full: 90.0%, Elapsed:94:06:41, Left:18:02:40, Total:112:09:21, 83% 
There Seems To Be 
a lot of major vising going around now.

Progress on the RVis AutoSave feature is going very well. If only the testing weren't so extremely time-consuming ...

It's quite a new experience to be able to abort a lengthy vis at any time for doing something else for a while and then just restart at the same spot (within a minute) where it was cut off.

You can also easily first do a fast vis and then start a full vis and it will jump directly into the Full part, since the state of the Base part is already saved. New possibilities ... 
Fuck Sake 
i left the house to go to work earlier at 3:30 with ~16 hours remaining on the vis.. and my stupid dad decides to turn the ocmputer off as soon as i went out, ignoring the msg i left on screen

sorry guys... will have to start it again :( 
just had a run through the map.. and it seems incomplete, there's no lighting or anything? you sure it's the right one necros? sorry for keeping this whole thing waiting :@ 
No No, 
i'll do the lighting myself. don't worry. ;)

aguire, I'm REALLY interested in this vis saving feature! it sounds ingenious! that would be perfect for me! :) 
An Email Is Coming Your Way, 
let me know how it goes. 
ok, i'm going to be doing some vising of nesp10 on my end. just to be safe. :) that way, there will be a backup. (also, going to give your vis program a field test, aguire ;)) 
Full: 66.6%, Elapsed: 13h 45m, Left: 86h 31m, Total:100h 17m, 13%

You still tryin' ChAiNeR?

It doesn't really look like i'll be able to finish this vis. I'm seriously considering just releasing as a fast vis. it'll probably be unplayable to the majority, but at least you'll be able to release the contest pak at last... 
How Fast Is 
your machine? Maybe someone else with a faster machine can help you. In that case don't forget to append the .vis file so they don't have to start all over again ...

Also, have you checked the spot in the map where RVis reaches its max leafs visible value (as seen in fast vis)? That spot is a good candidate for reducing visibility and thereby maybe shortening the fullvis time.

As a last resort settle for a fastvis, often in open maps there isn't that much difference from a fullvis (Tyrann's map became significantly better in fullvis, though).

You can always re-release it afterwards with a completed fullvis. 
I don't mind waiting another week. 
"You can always re-release it afterwards with a completed fullvis."

i think that sounds like a good option.. mine is running even slower than before... over 100h remaining and it's going up :(

i would quite like to play some of the other maps in this pack soon.. and this seemed to run alright when i tried it not-vised - it should be atleast playable. 
Re-releasing Is Evil 
don't go there if you can avoid it 
I Agree 
Keep releases to a minimum. cyBeAr speaks the truth. 
I Release Something... 
every night. Sometimes twice a night. 
Is it true that most people can't play a q1 map when only fast vised? 
I think we know what Metl is releasing at that rate 
Elephants Into The Wild? 
Releasing It At Least Three Times A Week 
lowers the chance of prostate cancer according to some scientists! 
what the hell has releasing elephants into the wild got to do with prostate cancer? 
does 2000 wpoly average, 4000 wpoly max mean anything to you? 
well, to give a meter stick such as it is...

i'm running:
-1 Ghz AMD Athlon
-256 SDRAM - Alotted 64. I really dunno if this helps any, seeing as my ram sucks, and i notice no performance improvement from allotting 16 mb...
-GeForce 4 TI 4200 64mb

You could charitably call it a good system. I'm able to play almost perfectly except for one area in the corner of the map where you can 'see' the whole deal in one shot. That's when it's fast vised.
I'm not surprised that ChAiNeR can play the map unvised, however, seeing as he's got the monster system... so i don't think you should use your system as a guide, chains.

so how does that sound?

meltslime: you know what you release? Too Much Information. ;) 
You're on a better system than most people have. I'd just wait for the fullvis if I were you. 
does 2000 wpoly average, 4000 wpoly max mean anything to you?

It means that my max is 300 over that max. That only happens when you look striaght up though. As long as you don't look up or down there's no real difference between vised and unvised. 
i was just making a joke based on posts 305 and 306. 
yeah... but you have to realize i'm not vising during the day, only during the night.

my last estimate was at 106 more hours. i get about 10 - 11 hours of vising done during the night plus the odd hour or so during the day, so that's about 9 - 10 days worth, plus the vis estimate is likely to rise more within the next few days.
So i'm looking at delaying the release by nearly two weeks. needly to say, it's t3h s4wk. With the fast vis, I could give it tomorow. (time for light to finish).

there are ways to make it run better of course. i assume you know the gl_subdivide_size 1024 trick (is it worth it putting in bigger numbers?) so that helps a lot. most of the wpoly count comes from the sky brushes. i didn't include those when i gave me 2000 average, 4000 max, since, as we all know, glquake does not include those wpolys in the count. so i honestly don't know what the actual wpoly avg and max is... it could be as high as 8000 or so, since without using the gl_subdivide_size 1024 line, i get about 15 fps throughout most of the map.

whew... long... :P 
What are these jokes you speak of? We have no such thing where I come from. 
Any Help? 
Guys, I think you're pushing your "March 1st Release Date" a little here... :-)

If it's any help I have a 1.5 Ghz P4 I can dedicate to the task 24 hours a day. Just send me the tools, the map and a list of instructions (I know NOTHING about mapping except what I've learnt from this thread) and I'll set it off.

I just want to see these farking maps this year! :-) 
it was actually officially pushed for release at qexpo. it's probably the only reason there are so many submissions. :D

I might send you my progress so you can give it a shot if chainer doesn't want to do it anymore... are you still trying chainer? 
43 hours remaining 
you're furthur then me.... 74h 
Mines Been At 
99% for over a day.. tssshh

this time yesterday it said 3h remaining

sure this thing is accurate aguire? :) 
You Think That's Bad? 
mine's been stuck at 79.3% for 3 1/2 days. i've all but given up. i really owe ya one, buddy! 
Unfortunately AFAIK there is no easy way of accurately estimating a fullvis session, especially if there are "black holes" where it gets stuck for ages.

Overall it's pretty accurate and in any case it gives a hint of what's going on. Before you'd know absolutely nothing at all which at least I found rather frustrating.

Necros, I've made some small changes to the nesp10 map and mine has reached 57% in 15 hours with a total estimate of 25. I doubt that will hold though.

All your multifaced curves (which look nice) are hell for vis ... 
Just Wondering 
How many maps been submited so far ? 
---- Vis 2.19 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup

testlevel = 4
File: c:\quake\id1\maps\nesp10_q1\nesp10_q1.bsp
3619 portalleafs
13096 numportals

average leafs visible: 875
max leafs visible: 2508 near (960 192 640)
c_chains: 3002504159
visdatasize: 823977 compressed from 1639407

Elapsed time : 173h 43m

emailing now :) 
7.2 days... almost as long as it took me to compile Soulstice for ELEK. :) It would have had to go for another ~1.23 days to tie me. 
...the new release date is likely to be?



In sorry to sound as if I'm nagging but I've been sat here, not moving, for 3 months waiting to admire these maps. I want to go to the toilet! (Or "bathroom" as some Americans might ut it). 
hah.a. ...


well, i sent my map to uwf yesterday, so it's up to him and his schedual, i'd say. :) 
/me gapes in disbelief


/me makes mental note - "Don't go near (960 192 640), and hopes that this is not the location of a key or button 
Are All The Maps In? 
if so, release the pack uwf! or i shall spank you! unless you like that! 
yeah i've been wondering about that as well, 'course, i felt a wee bit of trepidation about asking since i was the one who held it up for so long... :P 
you guys rock!
all 6 maps are awesome!

hug you all! :) 
/me Hugs Too! 
Boy was this worth waiting for!!
Thank you all! 
Maybe I Wasn't Paying Attention 
I didn't even notice that the pack was released. Thank you for your praise UWF. 
Yep, Pack Released Today. 
i submitted it as offical news but it hasnt appeared yet here or at planetquake. 
I Think 
I shall pimp this @ Map-Center too. It's Q1 section is mostly a token gesture, but it's worth pimping the hell out of this pack.

Necros: you scare me; your maps have hardly anything right-angled in them. They're alive. They bite. 
ahh mine came last, not surprising :P

distrans map was wicked.. looked really original.. realistic. only problem was i kept falling off though! my own fault i guess!

the jesus map was kinda weird with the messages that came up.. difficult, but in a good way... had to keep running around to avoid the spawns and try & yse them to blow up the zombies. again looked cool and original

necros map i didn't really enjoy.. probably cos of my bad experiences with it :) its good though, had some nice architecture and layout, but i didn't really like the gameplay

pushplay.. holy shit this map looks good! i thought the others were cool but this is like twice as good looking. kinda reminded me of one of the space maps in q3 with the platforms, only alot better :) loved the vertical style too.. was fun to play

tyranns, i didn't like as much as pushplays.. was kinda cramped, i prefer maps where you can run around dodging enemies.. this was tricky. it was kinda small too? still it looked great, especially since it uses the stock textures.. very nice use of them :)

thanks all for helping make this pack what it is.. i very much enjoyed it as a whole :) 
I mirrored the download for all the FP haters out there. 
i know what you mean about necros maps...they have something special dont they?

Looking forward to reviewing nesp09 soon. =) 
Gots Ta Lurv Teh Hugs... 
Thanx one and all and kudos to UWF. 
Played Through 
some good stuff here. Individual comments :

pushcoag : very nice. Decent architecture and texturing and nifty lighting. The gameplay's pretty sweet and it's an original idea done well. Probably the best of the pack. Major gripe is stuttering framerate.

tyrcoag - I really wanted to like this but the tightness in some areas and the ease with which one can fall into the void brought it undone for me. The brushwork and texturing are fantastic, without much of a hit on the framerate. Lighting is excellent, very old skool in parts but excellent in general. The dark, moody lighting did make it a bitch to spot scrags though, since they disappear in the black background sky anyway. The tightness, as mentioned before, made the gameplay frustrating parts IMHO but maybe I'm just not good enough.

discoag2 - too easy. That's basically the only fault of the level. Texturing is fantastic, far from the chaotic look of distrans' first and only prior level. Lighting and architecture are decent enough too. Some decent gameplay ideas here but since you couldnt fall into the void that easily, maybe more enemies would have made the gameplay more challenging.

jesus - I didnt like this at all. Crude texturing and average lighting with some rather basic architecture. Framerates were low throughout and the gameplay didnt seem planned out at all.

nesp10 - Like his previous coagula map, this just doesnt work for me. The architecture has some inspired work with numerous angled, detailed wall and roofwork. But overall, the brushwork feels too chaotic and randomly put together. I thought the gameplay was too difficult given the tight layout and low framerates.

chain3 - I liked this probably second best along with tyrann's and distrans' levels. Gameplay is challenging but not unfair and I like the architecture and texturing. The lighting could have done with a lot more contrast. 
All Velly Nice, Except... 
UWF: If you haven't fixed the download link, do so by removing "planetquake/" from it.

Second, in Win- and Tyr-Quake, Pushplay's map crashes with "Bad surface extents." Any idea what's causing this? 
Yes, the five other maps are all good. I really liked "The Vertical Mile" - good, original stuff.

Fatty: not sure - missing a texture maybe? 
what awesome maps!
they're all really great! what fun! whee!!! :)

i'm a little pissed off though, since the original stipulations were that the map was supposed to be good in both sp and dm. and i actually bothered doing dm mode, testing, adding extra shit, etc... don't get me wrong, i'm not pissed off because i didn't win, i'm pissed off because i made an effort where none was necessary. ;) 
read the original post... the 'Rules!?' section ;) 
it was changed i tell you!!!


i think i'm just stupid. ;) 
i think i'm just stupid.

That's okay; we think you're just stupid too :) 
Great Maps Everyone 
High quality stuff here. I liked ChAiNeR's, Distrans' and Pushplay's maps best as I prefer brighter maps with more space to move when fighting. All maps were great fun though.

ChAiNeR's had too much ammo/health (at least in Normal skill) but as a player you always have a choice of not using ammo/health or heavier weapons.

I had some problems with Distrans' map as I couldn't find a way to get pass the wooden bars at the top without trick jumping from the tower. Also, the last red button couldn't be pressed or shot, so I wonder what's the deal with that? Exiting could be done without any of these maneouvers, though. What gives?

Pushplay's was very original, as mentioned above almost a Q3A feeling (or possibly SiN for the textures). Very nice. It's however not playable in Win/TyrQuake which actually was one of the requirements of the contest.

The error message "Bad surface extents" usually means that there's a missing sky/liquid texture, but FitzQuake didn't have any problems with it, strange.

I tried to rebuild the map and then it was loadable in TyrQuake so I don't know what's up, maybe a sky/liquid texture with unusual proportions? I'd suggest Pushplay might try other build tools to see if there's any difference.

Both necros' and Tyrann's maps were very dark and pretty cramped at places which made combat overly difficult IMHO. Especially in necros' map there was a severe ammo shortage at times and the Deathknights/trigger_push area was awful.

However, both maps were certainly a challenge and looked very good. Tyrann's map had several great secrets.

All in all, a great effort and well worth waiting for. 
Oi Aguire 
Could you toss me a copy of your rebuilt PUSHCOAG? I'd like to have a squiz at it. I opened the damn thing in Quark and it didn't puke at all. 
My quickly rebuilt version is not cleaned up at all, I don't know if there are gameplay issues with it. However, it does load in both Tyr/FitzQuake, has no leaks and is fastvised/lighted.

In any case, wouldn't it be better if Pushplay had a chance in fixing it up using the real source map? In any case I need his permission before distributing my rebuilt version. And I rather rebuild it using the real source map if he's willing to share it. For a fast rebuild, it's only a couple of minutes.

Pushplay, what do you think? I noticed in the map that you've used the sky texture also for the large trigger_hurts, I don't know if that could cause the error message in WinQuake. It's easy to fix anyway. 
that's what i get for not beta testing at all, eh? :D

sorry about the trigger pushes everyone!

btw, does anyone know why in some places the trigger_hurt i put along the ground doesn't actually hurt the player?
i had to split the one massive trigger_hurt into tons of smaller ones, but even then some of them don't hurt the player... (try falling down between the blue wall before the exit and the silverkey island) 
Trigger Hurt 
Yes, I had that problem with my map too. I just played around with the triggers till it worked. I'd like to find out what the bug is though... 
Cents (2), My. 
I'd like to be able to say these maps were worth the wait... I will. These maps were worth the wait.

Top work from everyone.

Chainer : Wow. Your mapping is really improving. I can't wait to see your next effort.

Necros : Real hard, dirty fighting, just what I'd expect from you. :-) But (to repeat everyone else) why oh why oh why oh why the push_trigger bit??

Distrans : Loved the skill 0 = no monsters touch. Beautiful architecture too.

Tyrann : I still haven't exited yet. :-/

Jesus : wept.

Pushplay : I'd love to see this map. I hope it can be recompiled for regular Quake.

Thanks to UWF for organising this little shindig.

If anyone's interested the first speedruns of these maps are already in at SDA... 
Pushcoag Problem 
I've investigated some more and I'm fairly certain now that this is basically a missing texture problem that Pushplay might have missed in the compiler log.

There are two bad miptex entries in the bsp file that are likely to be the cause of this error. This in turn might be caused by an older compiler not handling texture names correctly.

This is also why my rebuilt map works; my rebuild process automatically fixes missing textures thus eliminating this problem.

Pushplay, a simple rebuild of the original source map with better tools might do the trick. Otherwise I can take a look at the zipped map if you send it over. 
The map was built in GTKRadiant and a wad file that I pieced together myself. I may have broken some unwritten rule in how I named files in the wad, because I'm quite certain no textures are really missing.

I couldn't test with software quake because it simply refuses to run on my system. No one who beta tested had any problems with the map, but I didn't ask which flavour they use. So if you recommend what the better compilation tools are, I'll give it a go.

As for the triger hurt, I noticed that if you jumped into the hurt and died, it may not remember to hurt you next game. My guess is it's a bug in the code where the timer betweem hurts fails to reset. I got around it by simply stacking two trigger hurts on top of one another. 
Take a look at and since you're using GtkRadiant, you might want to check out as well.

Let me know if you need more info or want me to fix it up (just send me the zipped map). There are apparently a number of people that are eager to try your map out in Win/TyrQuake. Let's not shut them out. 
It just occurred to me; you haven't used texture names longer than 15 characters, have you? Some of the texture names that I found in the bsp are pretty long and some ends in a '_' character, which is unusual.

Older compilers don't check for that and if you exceed this length, there might be unexpected behaviour and data corruption.

Specifically, there could be texture name mismatches that might produce these exact symptoms.

Using the tools above will tell you if the names are too long. 
15 characters, eh? That's exactly the kind of until-now unwritten rule I was talking about. A few of them are 16 or 17 chars. It's not my fault, Wally let me do it!

Fixing the texture names is easy, I can have that done by the morning, but doing a proper vising on this map takes nigh on forever. Does anyone have a super computer they can lend me? 
So it turns out that I can't count at 4 in the morning. The longest texture name is exactly 15 sans extension. The texture with the underscore is e8clangfloor04_ which I used extensively.

However, my wad didn't have the trigger or clip texture. I passed them off as only being necessary for the editor, and edited using common/trigger. Do you think that would cause the problem? 
I'd Suggest 
that you rebuild it the same way as before, i.e. only fastvised. A fullvis on this map will be pretty painful; you're most likely looking at several days of processing even on a powerful machine.

Although the Win/TyrQuake guys will most certainly feel the r_speeds hit even more ... 
Simultaneous Posting, Eh? 
I'm not sure but I'd definitely make sure that all textures are included in the wad before doing anything else. Also check compiler log for missing texture entries.

Since I think that the bad bsp miptex entries I found before in fact are from the trigger_hurts, it makes sense that this is the problem. 
and edited using common/trigger

That's the trigger texture for Quake 3, not Quake 1. AFAIK you must have the trigger texture contained in your .wad - it really isn't related to the way Quake 3 handles it. Definately sounds like a likely culprit because even though the texture is missing, no-one can see the error because triggers are invisible. 
15 characters, eh? That's exactly the kind of until-now unwritten rule I was talking about.

Also, you should have trigger in your wad. I don't know offhand if you need clip. 
metl: damn, I knew it all except that one.

It doesn't matter if I map with common/trigger or the new trigger extracted from my wad because the map converter strips out path names. The common version is just a lot more attractive.

I'm recompiling and fast vising with the new wad. The compile is already done. The warning count is 0 and the brush count is 2249. 
If you push them 1,2,3,4... there shouldn't be a problem. 
Pushcoag, V2

Can someone with winquake tell me if it works? 
It still gives me an error. 
No, It Still Aborts 
with "Bad surface extents" (I tried TyrQuake 0.0.41). FitzQuake still works as before.

I've also checked the bsp and now there are no bad miptex entries (no missing textures) and TexMex shows that the clip/trigger textures are there.

Weird. Perhaps there is a limit on how large trigger brushes may be? Try cutting up the large trigger brushes into e.g. four pieces and if that doesn't help, do the same to the large sky brushes. That's all I can think of right now.

distrans: I must have pushed them in the wrong order or something (too busy fighting). 
Well I'm Licked 
If anyone wants to play with the source, feel free to have a kick at that can.

Includes converted map file, unconverted map file, and wad. 
It Works Here 
when I rebuild it using TxQBSP, both in TyrQuake and FitzQuake. I use the converted map file and the supplied wad, no errors or warnings, everything seems OK.

What command line are you using for qbsp?

I'll send you my rebuilt bsp later and then you can publish it for download. 
It Works Here 
when I rebuild it using TxQBSP, both in TyrQuake and FitzQuake. I use the converted map file and the supplied wad, no errors or warnings, everything seems OK.

What command line are you using for qbsp?

I'll send you my rebuilt bsp later and then you can publish it for download. 
From The Bat File 
Tree-Qbsp.exe -transwater -verbose -oldaxis -oldtexpos -subdivide 256 pushcoag.bsp 
The subdivide setting is unusual and directly controls the face division logic of the compiler which definitely is related to this issue.

I tried a quick rebuild also using the "-subdivide 256" setting and then I get the "Bad surface extents" error in TyrQuake.

I'd suggest not using that option unless you have a very specific reason for it.

In any case, I've now sent you my rebuilt version so you can publish it. 
Problem solved. Group hug! 
I Am Not Hugging Anyone. 
except maybe RPG. :o 
I am not hugging anyone. except maybe RPG. :o

Don't look at me, I was just kidding. 
Ok, That's It 
I shouldn't be allowed to be in charge of compiling my own maps. 
So Was I. 
dont worry i am strictly females only.

This is the pushcoag version Bengt Jardrup built. 
Have you fixed random fullbrights on your textures ? 
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