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In The Cave
Small Quake1 level, from The Abandon.


It's just an average, simpel thing, but I liked playing it. Before my compiler made it crash, and made me act like a caveman!
vondur tells it like it is.

Another ace map by The Caveman
Well To Be Fair 
The end area with the caves filled with water was kinda good!
The rock floor suddenly sliding open to reveal LAVA TRAP was not so kinda good. 
I Haven't 
played it yet, but after a quick look I also thought the cave area looked pretty nice. 
/me Slits Wrists 

please polish maps before release
and please playtest maps before release :S 
i though it had lots of fun parts. what i hate is that madfox gets lots of maps finished and i cant even make more than 2 rooms!! is not that i cant, is that im not isnpired to do something, even though i really want to. :( 
Well, I think architecture globally looks good. I like first and second screenshots' layout and texture use, even if there exist some "misaligned" or "not very good aligned" texture sometimes..
For example, in the second screenshot: the pillar size doesn't allow you to have a good texture alignement on its base in order to have a regular "brick building"... take a look at the two central pilars' for example.. you have normal brick and really thiny ones !!! That makes pillars look crappy IMHO...
For the third screenshot, texture use is a little "boring" due to its "uniformity"... I know it's difficult to have some cool texture effects on huge area (I have to solve the same problem for my new incoming map...), but I really think it should be improved by the add of differents rocks texture, or something like this...
Regarding lightning effects, it's not bad at all compared to you latest map!!! I think you really improved the stuff !!!
Gameplay is enjoyable and I had fun while playing the level...
So, good work MadFox... keep it up !!! 
in my 17 mins of playing the map, I felt constantly unchallenged, given pentagram and quad powerups for no reason at all, felt lost most of the time, wasted all my shotgun ammo on a bleeding window, and then was killed in a goddamn stupid instant death lava trap.

can't say I enjoyed myself. 
.. don't be so cruel !!! And at least encourage MadFox for all his efforts in level design !! Even if his map is not as perfect as you would like, you must agree that MadFox have many much ideas than us to be able to produce each week (or 2weeks) a brand new map !!!
Like aguirRe said me in my very early time of "level designer" (if I can be called like this...): " quality and improvement will come with practice...", go MadFox go !!! I'm supporting you... keep it up!!! And don't be discouraging by "Mister Negative".. ...even if I can understand Scampie opinion... ;) 
yes with practice..
madfox won't learn on his own mistakes, and his practice leads to nothing. he still releases alpha state bollox ignoring our hints not to do so...
so please don't ask madfox to keep IT up, otherwise we'll all die here... 
well, electro. If you caught the readme you would know I tried to polish the map well, but this one was so "cranky" I lost my goodwill after compiling several maps with MAX_TEX INFO.

It's such a desillusion to get this message, after times of compiling.
So I could reprimand myself, otherwise I had thrown it away as a bunch of waiste.

The strange thing in this map was the fact I didn�t want to see one square corner in it.
But my compiler reacted rather tricky. I once builed it again from scratch, but it didn�t work. Then I rearranged brushes, but then my compiler got stuck. It must have something to do with the brushes, which are all off-grid.
So it is a small wonder this map excists.

What you mentioned JPL I really noticed, but by retexturing the pillar size,the map wouldn't compile. Feel sorry for it, but that's the way it is.
Same for other brush clips, as soon as I compared them I couldn't make a bsp of it.
True the texture could have been better, but I reached the maximum tex info.
No brush extra for this whishing well.

Sorry Scampie if my invention didn't start you up. Good I didn't finished it with a praxinoscope, I might see Shub-Nigurath giving me a wink.
You must be a good player to finish it with a useless Pentagram and Quad powerup! 
After Playing 
I can only repeat that the gameflow is again the most serious problem in this release.

At one time I had reached an area above the GK and after killing a nearby scrag, I got the message "Door opened". What door, I wondered and after some searching I found it to be a door which purpose I still don't understand.

After another frustrating search, I finally realized that suddenly the big teleporter in one of the cave floors (far, far away) now went to a different place (something I actually anticipated earlier but after trying, it didn't seem to work - then).

Another bad choice was the aforementioned lava trap that, apart from being an IDT, also seemed to be an essential route to follow to progress further.

Like Scampie, I was also surprised by the bleeding windows and invisible obstacles, not very intuitive.

But except for the above issues, I found the map quite enjoyable to play, especially after adding some sunlight. Monsters/weapons/ammo was good and even, except for the massive boss fight (one standard grunt ...).

Brushwork was pretty messy with the patented Borg layout and a rather big HOM in one area, but the caves were nice and texture choices were better than previous maps.

MadFox's best map so far. 
Question: Is there even one remotely valid reason why you choose to map without the grid?

After looking at the map for the briefest of moments, I noticed widespread thin slithers of badly joined brushwork (this is really noticable in r_drawflat), no real texture alignment, and even a few HOMs - all of which would be avoided by using the grid. No doubt all the bizarre compiler errors you mentioned are also a result of this gridless building technique.

JPLambert: Please. Listen to Vondur. You don't have to praise Madfox for the sake of praising him. This board is not a popularity contest, it's a mapping board, and one its functions is to tell mappers where they are going wrong and how they can improve. 
This board is not a popularity contest, it's a mapping board, and one its functions is to tell mappers where they are going wrong and how they can improve.

That may be true; however, to clarify, that does not give license to flame, disrespect, humiliate, or degrade other mappers.

But there have been many constructive comments on this map, and MadFox would be wise to take those into consideration when creating maps in the future. 
Gg R.P.G 
agree in 200% not all the people are so good as other�s but madfox is getting better is earlyer maps was much bad... he is getting better, keep on it mate!

sorry all for my F**King English...roulf! 
i was too mean, sorry
but you nevermind... 
At Least MadFox Finishes Maps 
unlike myself. That, I admire. 
rocketman must be your hero, then. 
he """finishes""" maps, yes. 
that second three "s in a row made the board explode 
For All... 
... I was not supporting MadFox for pleasure, I was just supporting him because he try to do his best, like everybody here, and he made many efforts on this map (while everything is not perfect, I agree..): I remind everybody we are here to learn from each others... For pro mappers it seems to be a waste of time (because they know "all about all"), but for beginners (like me) it's very important to have feedback about our work. Good or bad comments are welcomed and sure we have to use them as much as we can to know what to do, or not to do, in our future releases..... BUT, I fully agree with RPG point of view: we are not here to flame, disrespect, humiliate, or degrade other mappers... Just think about it...
So, I just think MadFox is on a right way, he have just to choose a better tool (regarding last aguirRe post), a better methodology, take much more care about what he does, and learn from other mappers... that's all...;) 
Old Map 
What I don't understand is - Why does Madfox continue to release the same maps?
This map was also included in the "sixpack" Madfox released last year, together with the two maps he released a month or two ago!
How about releasing some of the new stuff he has shown pics of! 
I'm Confused 
This teleport that takes you to different places. It's the one at the bottom of the deep, deep pit, yes?

I ask because the first time I was working through the map I quicksaved just before it and it took me to a place with a bunch of monsters (ogres and enforcers, I think) which ended in a door that made a "plingy-lingy-ling" noise (like when you find a secret) and you were back in the outside area. I had to stop the game at that point and quit without saving. Now when I quickload the teleport seems to take me to a SNG and some railings that overlook the gold key. And I can't find my way back to the plingy door thing. Or maybe it's just my lack of sleep.

But about the map: it's a huge step forward but still overly convoluted and aimless. If you could just sort out aligning textures and get over your "must use every inch of space and make the player backtrack through each area at least six times" fixation I think you'll make some nice maps.

It felt like a much more playable map than your previous efforts and looked tons better but I'm still hopelessly lost and will never finish it.

Keep trying... I hated the first draft of this map when you released it in that pack but this was a million times better. Only another million to go... :-) 
Maybe MadFox can explain the details but for me the tele went to two places. The first time to some area in the upper part of the map and the second time to the otherwise inaccessible lower cave part of the map. The cave section is mostly rock textured so it's easy to recognize.

Compared to an earlier version of the map, the entire lower and better-looking cave area is new and the upper part significantly retextured in a better way. 
Kind of got bored with this map. No bad, but could find the exit. Keep mapping MadFox :) 
To Mr� Fribbles And Who Want! 
a tribut to this great mapper!
all electric fish series 1 to 13 in frogbots! Parboil�s version
all the qc files of the maps are in this small rar 253 kb

Note: only work under fuhquake,Zquake and Ezquake 
Thanks, Trinca : ) 
thks you for your great maps...
but i must edit :( efdm2 got a error server crach :( it wasn�t me how made that qc file bust repair that tomorow will be fine! 
Good I didn't finished it with a praxinoscope, I might see Shub-Nigurath giving me a wink

I swear to God this sentence kept me awake last night.



(perhaps it was some kind of punishment for me being such a meanie. ;) )

aguirRe, thanks for the linky; that explains a lot.

MadFox, you really should consider using a nicer editor - GTK, Hammer, even the old Worldcraft are good choices. 
how can shub niggurath wink? she has no eyes. 
Shubs Big Fat Flatulating Vagina 
That is how she winks;


I may never sleep again either 
wasn't that the plot to insomnia? 
In Alien Flesh 
A man haunted by visions of Xenophilic sexual activity goes berzerk, grabs a shotgun and shoots everything in site.

Inner Peace through superior fire power! 
Whoops Grammatical Gaffe 
shoots everything in site.

I meant, 'everything on the premises.' 
Inner Peace through superior fire power!

are you quoting something there? I like the sound of that :) 
A Wink To Shub-niggurath 
You made me almost stop mapping, Kinn , but I keep on going, cause it's just a funny thing...

The remotely valid reason is because the maps are already compiled and I can't hardly change a bit.
I am polishing them up, because I love Quake and don't want to relay the good arguments you all give me... I release maps, Bazzu, and don't want to make them look as if I self never played them.
Memyself am already glad to play it, and it has never been my intention to make them look as Q1-standards, for which the contribution to this board sometimes feels as blunt. It only learned to see the stupid texture /clipping mass I made.

I understand it by relating to it, I had a good lot of average Quake1 maps for play.
Now I get good advices , for which I am gratefull, but lose the opertunity to past them into the maps , because of allready done mapping thing.

But to keep up with the answer, the well has four directions, two to the cave, and two at the same height.
And when you feel sleepy , you shouldn't play these beta maps or you fall in a wrong collision between a maniakQuake1 supporter with amaturistic humor and a proffesional Game Designers Team with promotional editors magazine survival...\

couldn't follow that one, Trinca,
but youre welcome Fribbles 
That was a one line quote from an e-mail review of Max Payne 2 my brother wrote to me when that game came out. So it is really his. 
I played around for around 15 minutes. Most of the time just running around looking for something to kill. Got pretty lost, and I never figured out the proper way to get the gold key. So in the end I just grenadejumped to it and found the exit shortly after. I basically like maps where you have a general idea of which way to go next. This way you never get bored, there's always something more to kill around the next corner. Fill a map with enough interesting and challenging gameplay and it doesnt really matter much how it looks (to me anyway). Of course when you get full package with great vistas and interesting gameplay, it feels great. This map falls short of that. It was interesting for a while, but then it got tedious. And I get fed up pretty fast when I have to search hard to find out where to go next.

Still, I like to try out new maps, and I hadn't tried any of the earlier versions, so it was fun for a while. 
wait, are you saying all the maps you are releasing lately are maps that you've worked on from a long time ago? 
Maps From The Acient 
When you arrive in the center room with the well there was this message: several jumps several destinies.

I did this because mostly one passes a teleporter once. This one leads to different places.
Sorry for being not clear about this, but giving a point of direction isn't my strongest side. Indeed you had to explore the level.

Necros, do you think you were betatesting for nuts? The maps are finished, and were a great joy to me. I am just polishing them up with your kindly know-how, to actually see what a mess I made.

I received a message of Aguire, who told me that none of the maps were extracting on the new compilers! It seems you got an antique rare-bit here... 
Sorry ;) 
>couldn't follow that one, Trinca,
but youre welcome Fribbles

hehe sorry but is the only way i know to contact Fribbles :) but i think you will become soon a good mapper...but i prefer Dm maps ;) Sp i play very rarely but if y want to know i downloaded Cave and had some fun ;) 
It's not that I'm against you release maps that are old. But you should make them avaible to the puplic in the beta and screenshot thread, since we are going to get the same maps as betas over and over again, and I'm sure we will get this one once more when you release your many (old) maps in the upcomming mappack. 
maniakQuake1 supporter

If you are talking of me like this, it's not really fair... *sigh* 
The multi-directional teleporter is fine and its message hints as it should. What I cannot make out is when the tele changes target; is it at random or triggered by something?

JPL: I think MadFox is referring to himself in that sentence ... ;) 
Thanks for this reassuring information... I was about to think I'm too much optimistic ;) 
Good Maps Are Hard To Make... 
You are right Bazzu.if you played the map before, you would have noticed slightly different things than in the release of the six-pack. Maybe you don't mind, but I am trying to tune in on an average player.
Which of course firstly is myself, but the posts on this forum show, that my insight isn't that of someone else.

If someone tells he sees a scrag, which after been shot makes a tingeling sound of an opening door, but he doesn't see it, it is my responsebillity to explain that, when he didn't shoot it, it would be impossible to leave that surrounding.

If this bastard won't release his maps in the screenshot/beta toppic because, other players would play the map twice, it is only because other mappers who do, hardly get response, overtumbled by other messages.

I really liked the map of JPLambert, think he deserved more feedback than the faintly indication in the beta thread. But that's just the point of view of this maniacQ1 supporter,
which could only be me.

The well ends upon four teleporters with different destiny settings. I wondered what would happen if four, close teleporters support the fall of the player. Which one would it take, and what would happen if he felt excact in the middle.

And what would happen if Vondur didn't support me with his fresh, deluted commentary? 
i'm not sure if i have to continue to -support- you, madfox. all my rage goes unnoticed ;) 
You made the custent,Vondur.

I would really like to use it, but my poor mapping attitude would surely ruin your attention. But you saved most of the perfect
tricks of Quake1. That's why I would support you!

It must be a hard case to give people good advice, while they are already on a compiled trace. Indeed my practice leads to nothing,
than the slipgate. But I must admit I can use the expirience of others to play these maps.
Sorry their already compiled, so the only mistake could be the release of it...
Not the arrogance of not wanting to learn. 
MadFox, What The Hell Are You Talking About 
this is from the custent txt file

Title : Custents - Custom Entities
Filename :
Version : 6.0
Date : 3/11/98
Author : General WarT' (aka Carl Glave)
Email :
Home :
Build time : oy, way too long.
Kudos to *Dan Bickell, for making all the Apocalypse related skins and
textures that are contained in here.
*Ethan Leon, for making all the Apocalypse related models that
that are contained in here. Also for being so cool about letting
me animate the servomech. Thanks man, that was fun. ;)
*The rest of the Original Apocalypse team (you know who you are)
for simply being, well, a bunch'a cool dudes. :)
*Steve Fukuda, for being so supportive and a cool friend, even
though he lives in another contry and has never even met me
in person. Thanks Man. *sniff* :) 
You Might Ought To Get That Checked 
It could be a case of tuberculosis 
Is It Just Me... 
or do I not understand what is going on in here 
The Fribble Compound 
Hey blackpope, I changed my underware to purple lately, so you won't see the snot of my recent flu attack.

But what goes on is that HeadThump didn't play a map, and the wonder of custent wasn't Vondur's own propperty.
So I won't ruined it with my imaginairy plottings. But he was the one who gave me the link to them. Sorry I mis-interpretated.

Still voting for Shambler's picture! 
I really liked the map of JPLambert, think he deserved more feedback than the faintly indication in the beta thread

I'm glad to read that MadFox.. thank you very much: you got the "JPL's-Best-Friend-Mapper" award ;

Anyway, I just don't think I deserve more feedback or advices than anyone else here... 
Blackpope, You Are Not Alone 
But what goes on is that HeadThump didn't play a map

You shouldn't assume that when someone keeps their opinions to themselves, they have not played the map. 
No, But Now I Am. 
I wasn't blaming anyone blackpope, it was just a continuation of the toppic from Shambler.
But I can live with the fact that his picture-toppic seem to be an over-exposure of the lightning beam, which results in this case to pure white.

I will assume Shub-Niggurath's gender is more important than any command to the map.

I appreciate all your attention, commands and cross-overs you gave me on this map.
I will try to paste them into the convertion. 
I regret ever posting in this thread. 
Make maps not war! lollllllllll

Well. It's another Madfox map.

Okay, I like the chaotic layout, and I quite like the chaotic gameplay. Not having a clue what's going on or what's attacking me worked pretty well although some more distinctive clues about which area was which would be good.

Other than that, vague theme, weak architecture with a lot of shite sections, very poor build quality.

Well....what can one do?? Madfox seems determined to learn VERY VERY slowly if at all.

Madfox: if you're not going to listen to anyone and try to learn about map quality, expect a slagging off each time you release another shoddy map. You have the choice: Improve and get respect for your maps, or don't. 
Shambler, Give Me Your Picture, Or You're A Vormit! 
Thanks for taking the oppertunity to play the map.
I understand your concern about the lay-out, but I have to make something clear.
These maps are already made, so in despite of all the good advice I receive from you all, I can't change a lumb. Alhough I keep trying.
So before I post another shoddy map and try to conceal your opinion I just want explain, it is
not that I don't want to learn, it is just, what I had learned is now available.

Surely I am making new maps at THIS moment, but they are not the ones I can post, being suspended by the Abandon convertion, which is in its last testing-state. 
Okay Then. 
If you want to release something of quality that will get praise on here, get rid of all the older maps like this one. Delete them or hide them away somewhere and don't show them in public. You've been doing this long enough that you should have got past the "noob" stage by now.

Time to start afresh I think. 
SHIFT + DEL Is Your Friend... 
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