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Apinaraivo / Monkey Rage Q1SP Released By Jago
After months of work, my Q1SP project is finally done. It uses a mix of IKBase and SpeedBase to create a pretty unique theme. Feedback and demos are welcome.

Screenshot #1:
Screenshot #2:

Map Download:
FilePlanet Download:
at last jago did it! :)
very nice level with impressive brushwerk and lighting! i liked ceilings especially, the most detailing ceilings ever!
gameplay is relaxing, the map is more for looks than for massacre :)

jago you rock! 
Excellent work Jago...very detailed map in terms of brushwork and texturing. Extra points for nice pipe work in Quake. There were no "boring" areas at all through the whole map. The combination of Speebaze and IKbase is pulled off really well too, with no areas that clash or look isolated from the rest of the map.

Difficulty levels are well balanced, although I did get raped by the two fiends on my first try. I liked the use of the custom wasn't too overbaring, and even though it didn't really add to the overall atmosphere too much, it was a nice change of pace from the usual base monsters.

OK now a few complaints...

It did crash on me once in Fitzquake...kind of annoying being 10 minutes into the map and having it crap out and crash to the desktop. Something to do with one of the models caching...I don't know if Fitzquake's fault or whatever but it was kind of discouraging.

Some of the non right-angle brushes suffered from being too "fat" compared to their right-angled counterparts -- now this might just be something that only bothers me, but it was kind of noticable. It's weird because you adjusted properly for slanted brushes in some parts but others. Even if it was a design choice and not a lack of attention to the brushes, it still didn't look right to me.

Finally, I think some areas had too much brush detail where instead, those brushes could have been used for gameplay. The areas themselves looked fantastic, but most of the time they weren't really used to their potential in terms of traversing the map. I suppose it's a minor issue really, but some of the more length-crazy Quake players might take issue.

Overall it was a really well done map with good gameplay and lots of slick brushwork and detailing. Congratulations Jago! 
About the crash, this is very weird indeed. The engine I've been testing the map with the most was FitzQuake (ocassionally playing it with Darkplaces and vanilla GLQuake a couple of times). I haven't encountered any crashes and neither have my testers. Can you reproduce it and tell me what was the exact error message? 
Mixed Bag. 
Design is very good, detailing is great and some really nice designs. Some nice varying paths too. Custom monsters fit in nicely.

Gameplay in the base is very easy until near the first outdoor section. As Blitz said a lot of the structures could be used for gameplay - you could have had twice as many base monsters in and it wouldn't be horde combat as there's so many underused places for them to lurk. Conversely the final arena is a lame setup and one of the worst fights I've played in Quake, being boring, extremely difficult, and just plain shit. Thankfully you can just stand underneath armagon and telefrag him. 
Base Matter 
Yes, the brushwork here is the main achievement. There's a good relationship between the brushes and the textures; it doesn't look like one was dominating the other.
The level of detail in the brushwork was consistent - it wasn't just a case of 'here's a cool techy thing I built in the middle of the room'. Anywhere I looked around there was an interesting concavity in the roof, an angled bulkhead or a pipe. Although, talking of cool techy things, the exit teleporter is the best I've seen in a base map.

The lighting was good, though I wouldn't say great as there weren't that many shadowcasting features to complicate the scene with contrast. The outdoor areas could have taken more daylight - there's some good rocky stuff out there that I had to crank my monitor gamma up a bit to really see.

The gameplay was well paced and stealthy. Unlike Shambler, I'm glad the map wasn't stoked with weak base monsters. There were some small areas of neat arcitecture that had no monsters at all so I had much more opportunity to feel I was advancing my way through the installation and not just a series of repetitive firefights clad in ikbase. I really liked that.

The custom monsters were sensible inclusions and not used to spam the map with novelty, though the mega-enforcer sounds are still complete shit.

Items were on the whole adequate without being gratuitous, and I think you must have spent a fair amount of time deciding what to place and where. There was only one location on my first run where I ran out of everything except grenades and tried to do an ultimately suicidal runner under a hail of blaster fire. Other than that, I never had too little - or too much - ammo, which suits my conservative playing style nicely.

The endgame with Armagon was ridiculously easy, though I'm not really complaining. It would have been a more involved combat if you'd simply built a pillar in the middle of the room and spaced the weaponry around the perimeter instead of delivering it all in the airlock. As it was, I just circled behind and assraped him with the LG.

Overall, a solid chunk of baseness with a well developed sense of place. 
dont work with joequake :( 
On Custom Engines 
I simply didn't/don't have the time to test the map with every single custom quake engine out there. FitzQuake and Darkplaces are the most popular ones (and I'd say also the best ones out there) and I only tested with vanilla GLQuake due to pressure for compatibility from some fellow mappers. I was actualy surprised it did run with vanilla GLQuake as I had suspected that my map would've crossed some original engine limitations seeing as there are ~6400 brushes and 730 entitites.

Out of curiosity, what is the error/problem you are getting with joequake? 
On Armagon 
The problem with Armagon is that killing him without having any cover seems to be ridicuosly hard for some people and ridicously easy for others. I myself, belong to the latter group, you just keep yourself behind his back and use the lighting gun on him until he's dead and use a couple of rockets to finish him off if you run out of cells.

However, since many people don't know this "easy" way of killing him, I nerfed him a little bit to give them a chance. His rockets do a maximum of 70 damage in a direct hit (in SoA they do a maximum of 90 dmg). I have also reduced his health by 500 hitpoints to 2000 on Easy, 2500 on Normal and 3000 on Hard. 
Looks Spankingly Good. 
At work atm, so I haven't had a chance to play this yet. But from what I've seen so far this looks spankingly good.

Trinca: use a proper engine.

(PS - Jago, Armagon's rockets do 120 max damage in SoA) 
Heh, I must've missed something in my calculations then. Anyway, the maximum rocket damage has been dropped by 20 or so points. 
Joequake Works For Me! 
bit of greyflash, but upping r_max{surfs,edges} will take care of that.

I even recorded a 'first play' demo, but it's really boring... and I die in an inept way after 11 minutes or so. 
Just had a quick blast at it on skill 1 and I died on the fiend section (1 spawn right by my head), it was probably jsut my lack of quake skills.

The level and texture go great and the lighting is also nice, and to where I got upto the weapon and ammo distrubution looked spot on.

Nice work I love it, now back to those fiends.. 
Worked fine for me 1280x1024 -bpp 32 -mem 64 
I can't believe I didn't mention the new monsters, a nice touch and it spiced up gameplay, some of them I have never seen before. 
The Problem With Armagon 
is that killing him without any cover is an interminably boring and one-dimensional combat.
Keeping his attack dmg higher ( though not neccessarily as high as in Mish 1 ) while providing an asymmetrical warren of crates, a narrow pillar or two or - my personal favorite - 4 func_train pillars that alternately lower and rise in diagonal pairs, while also providing a multitude of low-power items a good distance apart gives the player options but encourages them to move as well as shoot during the combat.
This allows both combatants time for moving and aiming as well as shooting. 
thks for trying to help me out!!! was a joequake 0.14 problem...i put again the version 0.13 and it work realy cool!!! great work...the map is fu**ing greattttttttttt nice work!!! 
All In All 
Congrats on pulling off the Ikbase/spedbase combo so well... i tried that myself once and found it very tiring to do so it looked any good. General architecture was excellent; as vondur mentioned, the ceiling detail rocked. The architectural style was also pretty distinctive, which is a good thing. One thing i liked in particular were the curved ramps that showed up a couple of times.

Gameplay was, as many have said, very easy at the beginning, as you well know. Personally I liked this a lot, it made the atmosphere a little more moody, and gave me the chance to examine all the architecture before the bad guys turned up.

As for negative points, i agree the ending was slightly naff, but nothing too bad. Lighting wasn't great in general though, particularly outside, where you couldn't see the shape of the rocks. Inside, it would have benefited from some more spotlights, and less areas where it looked like the lighting was courtesy of minlight.

Enough negatives; good effort, good map. 
I am sorry, but the screenshots of this map really don't make me want to download it. It looks like something I could've cooked up in less than an hour. No offense. 
go map 
Good post :) Didn't I read something like this recently somewhere? :) 
Awesome! Base maps can look really good. Great brushwork, oh what a very high level of detailing thru the map. Good lighting, interesting layout, nice gameplay, but I was kinda dissapointed when I saw only ~70 monsters in a >6000 brushes map.
But final battle was easy even for me. Not a big complaint but anyway. 
My hard drive ate Quake but I'm sure the map is totally boss. 
It's Kinda Nice. 
I didn't get aroused by it though. 
Nice Level Jago 
I liked the colors and textures very much. For me almost too much detail. If you had used 30 more monsters combined with additional armor you could almost convince me to base style maps. I have recorded demo on skill 2 during first play - nothing spectacular in it, but maybe someone likes to see it. (packed wit dzip). The final battle was short but I liked it - the best fight in your level in my opinion. It forced me to move and think quickly for the first time during play. That was a good map. 
i'm going to play this when i get home. must seen cool cieling details. ;) 
i before e, except after c. d'oh! 
I Before E 
except after c and beige beigel fanciers. 
In all of the several hundred attempts I had trying to kill him, I tried every single bloody time to get behind his back, starting off behind his back and circling to keep behind him. The result?? He turns around, leads his shots with blatantly calculated AI precision, and kills me.

This is on hard skill, BTW, on other skills maybe he does something different. 
i told jago to add columns in the final arena to prevent frustration on hard/nightmare. he forgot that or something ;)
cuz when i played armagon on nightmare he threw me violently to another corner of the arena and then killed in 2 secs with his precise rockets... 
Killing Armagon On Hard 
Here's a demo of me killing Armagon on Hard: (packed with dzip). It could've been even easier if I had actually picked up some lighting gun cells, but I just noclipped through right to Armagon to get right to the point. It's easy. 
I concede the following:

Being able to defeat Armagon in this map is entirely dependent on the distance from him that you circle around him. If you follow the intuitive course of action and stay as far away as possible (which is also where the size of arena and position of health packs encourage you to stay), then he is extremely difficult to defeat indeed. If you follow the counter-intuitive course of action and stay up close with a very powerful rocket-firing monster that kicks you away when you're too close, Armagon is reasonable to defeat.

Still sucks though. 
Which is exactly how I did it. Still boring as fuck though. 
100% Run On Hard

This is a 100% run on Hard, including both secrets. 
beaten too it by the Smabler 
Brushwork: excellent, top notch. Really nice base style, and loads of detail. A lot of time has been spent on this and it shows. Good work, old chap.

Lighting: Pretty good too. I noticed that there were quite a few largely unlit surfaces (on ceilings predominantly), but it didn't detract too much.

Gameplay. Pretty straightforward and fun. Nothing really struck me as annoying, so a thumbs up here :)

(Actually, the Armagon battle would have been really annoying had I not read the comments already posted on how to defeat him, so yeah, maybe that should have taken place in an area with a bit of cover).

New stuff: I thought the mega-enforcers had truly crap sound effects; you should have just used the normal enforcer sounds for them, it wouldn't have detracted ;)

Centroids: hmmm, their strafing seemed a bit, um, mental - especially when I was firing the nailgun. I don't seem to recall this behaviour in SoA, but it *was* a long time ago.

Overall then, a really solid release with some truly smashing visuals. I look forward to seeing some wonderful architecture in your future maps :) 
New stuff: I thought the mega-enforcers had truly crap sound effects; you should have just used the normal enforcer sounds for them, it wouldn't have detracted ;)
Did I miss something or didn't they use the original sounds? If they did, shame on you kelkinny! Zer is the most awesome thing ever and you can't fault it! 
shame on you kelkinny!

Grrr >:| How many times? Kinn and I are *not* the same person!!! 
Ah Crap 
I meant to say *Kell* and I are not the same person.

(wow I really helped the situation there :P) 
Uh Huh. 
#37 posted by Kinn [] on 2005/01/05 15:38:18
shame on you kelkinny!

Grrr >:| How many times? Kinn and I are *not* the same person!!!

I Played 
I played on hard and got all kills and all secrets.

Nice looking map and a bit maze like. Multi-level base style fights and the Mega-Enforcers were fun but I agree that they need better sound - blame the original creators for that. I liked the curved ramps and pipes and the outdoor rock looked good enough. Rich and detailed, crampy and pretty fun. This is not a high stress map. The Q2 sounds fit in well. The end slipgate was novel and cool looking.

I'm not a boss fan, but I played through before reading this thread and on skill 2, I beat down Armagon by circling behind his back with the LG followed by a couple pumps of double shotty. I did the fight twice without dying and it was over in a matter of seconds. He's an easy kill for me and I'm not a good boss fighter. 
lol @ kinn

on map:
excellent brushwork, love the attention to detail and all that good stuff as was mentioned before. map wasn't too hard, and had good pacing (started off nice and slow, spooky almost progressed to harder encounters well) maybe was a bit easy though.
also, the armagon trick makes the ending simple.

excellent map! 
Nice Map 
Best things were gameplay and architecture, lots of places to jump around and high interconnectivity. Ammo/health balance was good, although I felt the place was slightly underpopulated.

Armagon fight was bad since either you know the trick to kill him or you don't, either way you lose since there's no real fight to be had. I put him down just by running up front and frying him.

I wasn't too keen on the combination of high brush detail and textures though; the total impression was too "busy". Lighting was a bit too dark but otherwise well distributed. Overall, a good map.

Btw Jago, did you have any Too many light styles ... issues around Armagon? 
Yes. I initially tried having 5 sets of switchable lights and light.exe barked at me, so I had to reduce it to 4 sets. 
Speedrun Easy 
fun map, ... good layout... imho. custom monsters were cool, last battle was neat (i beat i think first try though i hadn't seen armagon before). works great in Tomazquake (i know nobody uses that anymore i guess, i'll have to get Fitzquake.) 
Sure, yeah, whatever, and Daz and Dranz are different persons, too. Pfft. 
Nice Map! 
Apart from Armagon on skill 2, like everyone else says. I telefragged him more or less accidentally on my first play though -- I think you should at least have to rj to do that... 
Best Fun In A Long Time 
great map!! 
I liked. 
You know how I feel about it (add them stairs!!!!) so I'll keep it short - FUCKING BADASS!!!! MORE!!!!! GJ. 
Cheater Error 
Heh, Id on't think it's been mentioned but I know what the error message was and what causes it. It says something like "can't spawn v_prox"

I think it's because you're using some Armagon stuff but, I think, because you didn't include the weapons it causes an error when you try to select one of them.

You would only see this if you use cheats. So I'd suggest blitz play it like a real Quaker rather than cheat. ;) 
This is strange. All SoA weapon precaches are disabled and at one point in time I (OK, it was Kinn) had specifically hunted down the part of code which would cause the crash when using cheats and fix it. I guess something slipped through. 
RE: Odd 
All I know is I never had a crash when I first payed through it. Second time I decided to use cheats, picked the rl, did prevweap and it crashed at the beginning.

I then decided to do that again but I then decided to pick weapons individually rather than scrolling and I could pick all the original Quake weapons and no crash.

So, while keeping god and impulse 9 on I kept going through the level and went about half way, stop, did prevweap from the rl and crash.

I can crash it every time and in any spot by doing that and, I assume by the name, it's a weapon causing it and the fact it only happens when I try to change to a certain weapon.

At least it's not that bad. It only affects cheaters so even if you did find the code it's not hurting skilled players. :D 
Fuck That 
I didn't have cheats enabled, and that wasn't my error. 
Hehe ^^ Sorry 
Now that I think of it, yeah, the second time I played I got frustrated because I died at the Fiends. So I put impulse 9 on the third time, and that's when I got the error.

When I initially wrote what I wrote, I forgot that I that did that when I got the error. It was late at night and I was frustrated! I don't cheat! :D 
Blitz cheats, haha, loser!... �_�
Nice map anyways, not enough monsters tho, and telefragging armagon is stupid. Some funky brushwork and texturing tho. 
yes, because in the hipnotic pack, the weapon before the rl is the proximity mine. i don't understand why people don't fix the next weap/prev weap functions in the code. i've played many mods where the modder has actually broken the nextweap/prevweap code. what the frell is that all about. O_o
nothing personal, jago. just this comment has brought up a subject that has bothered me for a while -- i'm one of the dudes who only uses weapon cycle commands via mousewheel and not individual weapon impulses. :P 
It's My Fault 
Sorry, yeah. I neutered the Hip Weapon impulse commands, but I forgot to do the same with the weapon cycling.

I guess I didn't catch this because I never use the mouse wheel. Sorry guys. 
On The Other Hand... 
it serves you right for cheating.

Yeap - Excellent hi-tech level. I loved the texture usage and the high amount of details. There was very little variety in terms of locations but it didn't get boring at all. Just too damn bad that I have to run GLQuake levels with low brightness. Including custom enemies is always a nice surprise.
The gameplay was ok - item/monster balance was well set although the final combat with the Armagon dude was way too easy - about five seconds and he was dead meat. A set of teleporting monsters would have been better (you kill one bunch - another bunch appears - the new bunch always being a bit harder than the old bunch). 
Uhm, Kinn 
I have something to confess . . . I cheated while playing Bastion. There. I got it out of my system. It feels so much better. 
It's 2005!!! 
Stop working on maps for old ass games LOOOSERS!!!!

How about doing work for a game released in say the last year or two!! 
"How about doing work for a game released in say the last year or two!!"

It's 2005!!! 
Stop reading forums about old game maps if you don't like them LOOOOOOOSER.

How about reading website for games you like personally. 
Gib Captured The Flag 
How about doing work for a game released in say the last year or two!!

1) 'sniff', 'sniff', you're not the boss of me!
2) Quake is wayyy more cool than what is being pumped out at this time
3) the coolest human being on the planet maps for Quake. 
Nah, I stopped mapping for Quake a while back... =\ 
Lol ;)~ 
I left it open to interpretation but it is most likely true. 
is anywere game better than Quake? lol dont think so... crap crap and more crap!!!

Gig said:
Stop reading forums about old game maps if you don't like them LOOOOOOOSER.

:)))) love this one!!! ;)

RealJago go play that new shit game "doom3" and other craps like that! and leave us alone! 
Jesus Christ 
You guys are really easily trolled. 
WTF do you mean by that? You badmouthin' Quake???? go play your crap hl2dm game you looooooser.

I See Somebody Could Use A Hug such a god name! Quake forever!!! play since 1997 and i dont think i will ever quit of it!!! 
This Is Funny... 
Most of you type like you are still in grade school. Spell check is your friend. :) Don't get me wrong, Quake was a great game in its time...but time has moved on.

Gig, Perhaps you are upset cos your parents will not buy you a fast enough computer to play Doom3 or HL2. (don't get all upset I am just having a little fun here) 
As moderator of this site, I'm going to have to ask you to leave and not post anymore unless you feel like being civil. If you want to intelligently discuss about why newer games are better than older games, make a new thread about it or post in the General Abuse thread.

Everyone else, Do Not Reply to him. Let's just talk about this map. 
I have doom3 completed, hl2 almost completed and a 3ghz 1gb ram rad 9600pro I know there are other games and yes there fun but I still like and play quake.

Where do you think these other games started?

Anyway this thread is about Jago's map and this board is about quake, you can tell from the title of the site you see, so why are you here? 
I played your map yesterday night, and it was a real pleasure...I really enjoyed play it. Ammos/health is well balanced, architecture design is really cool, gameplay and lightning effect are very good as well. New monsters are awesome (scorpion, "shielded" enforcer, and particularly the last bot-boss in the final fight)...
Very good job.... Thanks for this great fight !! 
Architecture was pretty much top stuff. Lighting was too bright in some spots and generally was average. The AI aiming on the centroid and Armagon annoyed me--a lot. The constant up/down movement of the details in the floors made the navigation jerky and frustrating. Surprise fiend attack annoyed me when one spawned behind me. Armagon sucked hard on skill 2.

Solution: take out dumb AI aiming, have a more involved end combat per Kell's suggestion, add some armor, take out a bit of health, add some clip brushes to the floor or something to make it smoother, and you should have a really great map. 
Excellent Level, Jago 
RPG's advice is good, though, personally, I liked the fight the centroids gave but I can see how it could be fustrating. 
Cool Map 
good brushwork and texture integration which really should have been highlighted more with better lighting.

gameplay was easy but enjoyable enough (except for the fiend teleporting behind you, that was a bit unfair IMHO).

Map could have done with more clipping though, one of the few maps where I got stuck whilst moving on regular occasions. 
The Link To This Level Doesn't Work 
I tried to download this level using the link provided not the fileplanet link cause I haven't used fileplanet in ages. Anyway the link by the words map download is broken is there a fixed link somewhere thank you 
This seems to be a glitch with FilePlanet. Try loading the link multiple times, it should work. 
FilePlanet Downloads 
If you are using a download manager you will need to by-pass it when you click on the link shown above. For example, with DAP, hold Alt when you click the link. That will take you to the FilePlanet download page and you can then click as normal.

I use DAP and can download the file OK using this method.

If that helps... 
the link no longer works, that's true. This map was uploaded on my previous webhost's server and the file is not present on the new server.

Use the fileplanet link. 
Shameless Thread Bump 
For those who've missed the map when it was released: I've written a small write-up about the map with a few screenshots, it can be found at: 
I just attempted to download the map (to rip the Armagon model from you ;)), and neither of the downloads would link to your zip. 
Ah, Thanks 
it's probably worth another go around in play too! 
Like I said in Mapping Help, I thought this map was built quite solid. Although I agree with some - a little overdetailed, although very inviting. 
I think the detail is great really. I don't think its "overdetailed" by today's standards at all. Actually I find that this level of detail is hard to get to, especially using ikbase.wad, it's not an easy wad to use effectively. Kudos on that. 
Or Maybe 
You could say distracting instead of overdetailed. But that can be a good or bad thing. 
New Download Links 
Since the links in the original post seem to be dead:

shit, that was the wrong map :D

correct links:

Im pretty curious :) 
I Like The Style Of This Map 
Speedbaze/IkBase works well. :)
Makes me wanna map - but Im still making remake map which has taken like 9 months and I still havent finished :( 
Detail Overload 
I know this is going to be a strange thing to say but there is too much detail in this map. To the point that it hinders gameplay with support columns jutting out all over the place and doorways that make me feel like a pinball bouncing off flippers as I try to get through the opening.

A good example of the excessive detail was when a shambler spawned about half way through the map and I backed up into the previous room to get some cover. The previous room had a large pool of water in the middle of the floor which I fell into. I know the pool was detail because I had checked earlier if there was anything in the water and it was just spot lights. The pool could of been covered or removed and it would have made the gameplay more enjoyable. I think there needs to be a balance between detail and actual gameplay foot space.

The use of the textures and the design of the architecture is really well done but it often felt too busy and distracting because there was so much of it everywhere. There were pipes going in all directions, control panels, ledges and a lot of places where nothing really happened. With so many ledges to climb I was sort of expecting to find more secret locations to explore but there was hardly any.

I played the map on skill 0 and 1 and found my first play through the map I ran out of armour really quick and had to back track alot for previous health packs. I really liked the new blue enforcer with the shield, very cool. The idea was very well done but it never posed much danger because the rockets it fired were easy to dodge. I was disappointing to see a vore and shambler in a tech base but the original quake only has two monsters that work with the tech style.

I did not know the 'trick' for the end boss and just died alot. The rockets it fired always tracked me and the lasers just shredded my armour and killed me within seconds. No one in their right mind would circle strafe really close around a huge robot creature and always keep their distance. (which is seems is not the way to kill it!) As many others had said the room needed more cover and variety and not the classic meatclub arena.

Overall it was a fun map to play with alot of detail and effort put into the visuals and architecture but the combat really needed a spark of something extra to make it stand out from the crowd. 
If It's The Boss I Think It Is 
Then there's no "trick" to it. It just takes a lot of pain before dying... 
To Tell The Truth... 
THERE IS a trick.

And it takes no pain at all. 
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