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The Marcher Fortress - New Q1SP By Kinn
It brings me the most transcendent pleasure to announce the release of my latest Q1 map, The Marcher Fortress.

I appreciate all feedback, and demos are especially welcome.

Screenshots:

http://kinn.spawnpoint.org/maps/marcher01.jpg
http://kinn.spawnpoint.org/maps/marcher02.jpg

Download:

http://kinn.spawnpoint.org/maps/kinn_marcher.zip

With aguirRe's permission, I have supplied his engine executables inside the zip. Please read the readme before you start.
:D 
Kinn si teh rock of my life! 
Err 
I actually got lost after I got the silver key. I do recall seeing a silver key door somewhere, but at the point where I got the key I could no longer remember where it was so I spent 10 minutes aimlessly running around trying to find that door before quitting. I guess I'll have to replay.

Are the spiders and flying imps from Hexen 2? 
Jago 
After you get the silver key, the route naturally leads you back to the silver key door. Just follow the "trail of combat". 
Fuck You Kinn (In A Good Way) 
there was waaaay too little ammo towards the end (hard skill), but besides that, I'm utterly speechless.

So yeah, fuck. 
Awwwwwwwwwwww............... 
..zzzzzzzzaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!
The best reply to that idiot that posted something like:"Why don't you map for more recent games?"
This is beyond belief!!!
Too good for words! I vote Kinn for best mapper ever! 
*AHEM* 
I still haven't finished it, but from what I've seen so far...

16:40:57 czgMarcher : holy fucking shit Kinn
16:41:06 czgMarcher : I mean jesus fucking christ
16:41:15 czgMarcher : what the fuck is fucking wrong with you?
16:41:22 czgMarcher : because fuck
16:41:26 czgMarcher : that was fucking awesome
16:41:33 czgMarcher : fuck


I would have to agree with CZG. 
Fucking A 
Definitely the most WOW map ever made for Quake. Some of the views you get in this map are just stunning.

Gameplay was really fun throughout, and the new monsters all rocked. Those facehugger/spider things are one of the best custom baddies ive seen... fitted in so well.

The atmosphere in some sections was phenomenal too, such as at the bell tower, where there was a kind of mood i'd never felt before in quake, feeling dwarfed by this wondrous alien landscape.

I didn't play on hard skill, but I found the ending to be great, and not a letdown in any way, which is a difficult thing to achieve. Really didnt expect *SPOILER* another showdown *END SPOILER*.

Awesome work Kinn. 
On Aguire's Custom Engine 
Borked Links 
Engines 
i used Darkplaces and it ran great at 1280x1024 resolution with everything turned on. 
Holy Fucking Shit Indead 
That was alot of monsters...
Great map man, good start for 2005. =D


I'm surprised how well those new monsters fit in, I wouldn't mind seeing them used in other q1sp maps. The blue firing guys are fucking tough tho, too much health, had to finish the last one off with my boomstick. 
Oh By The Way... 
I love the new sound the monsters make when gibbed... ;D 
Pardon My Wording 
I am sorry for my wording. I should've said "doesn't work". I tend to forget that some people might be easier to offend than others. I apologise. 
OMFG 
Very very very nice!!! The words wont come out, but it looks gorgeous and the gameplay is fantastic!

Love the new / borrowed enemies, they work really well. I agree with Bal that the horned blue shit throwing guys have a little too much health. But apart from that they are fine, all the other new enemies rocked, even the little spiders!

omg if u haven't played this map you dont deserve to be breathing... Map of the year! :D 
God Dammit 
I need quake :( 
Bloody Brilliant 
10/10
The bell tower ending was phenomenal. 
Grrrr... 
Am I the only one who has technical problems? It will only run in 640x480 in GLMarcher. It crashes in DarkPlaces. I can play it in 1280x960 in FitzQuake, but then the sky won't show properly (haven't played it beyond the first bridge though).
Jardung's GLQuake works perfectly (it seems), but not with Marcher.
A pity as it seems to be awesome. 
Demiurg 
Strange, the sky works fine for me in FitzQuake. I am playing in 800x600. 
 
Did you add the -heapsize 48000? I added it, even in DP just to be safe, and it worked absolutely splendidly in 1024x768 32bit. I only tried it in DP though. 
Too Far Away? 
Zwiffle: I have -heapsize 96000, so that shouldn't be a problem?

Jago: I've tested FitzQuake again and it's not the sky it seems, rather the distance to it - it's a red block over part of the sky, but when I get closer it's OK (and beautiful at that). If that's the only problem, it's quite OK. Strange with GLMarcher though. 
Demiurg 
you appear to not be using the settings provided with the autoexec.cfg - please clear any existing autoexec.cfg file you may be using, and make sure the one provided in the zip is placed in the quake/marcher/ directory. 
Sky Again 
It's seems to be the same in all resolutions btw - here's how it looks in 800x600:

<url>http://watch.windsofchange.net/pics/marcher_sky.jpg</url> 
Oops... 
Awesome Work!! 
This map runs smooth like a [whatever] with Joequake!
http://delfin.unideb.hu/~sj0002/ 
Replies 
Thank you all for the wonderful comments so far :) It's a great relief to have finally finished this map, and in the end I guess I owe it all to you guys for keeping the Quake groove going after all these years. 
Autoexec.cfg 
Tried that and GLMarcher still loads in 640x480 only. But never mind - I'll play it in FitzQuake. 
Demiurg 
That is odd. Try putting these in your .cfg:

fov "90"
gl_farclip "16384"
r_farclip "16384"

I have a suspicion your strange fov setting may be causing this. 
Demiurg 
Tried that and GLMarcher still loads in 640x480 only.

add this to the command line for GLMarcher exe:

-width 1280 -bpp 32 
Kinn 
Got rid of the red block now, using your advice - even with my strange fov setting (110);)
Guess it was gl_farclip then?
Thanks! 
Kell 
Here's my command line:
GLMarcher.exe -width 1280 -height 960 -bpp 32 -heapsize 96000 -game marcher +map marcher -skill 3 
Demiurg 
Yes. For some reason, your setup doesn't seem to be loading the provided autoexec.cfg - I can't say why atm.

Also heed Kell's advice (post above yours) in setting

-width 1280 -bpp 32

at the command line to get GLMarcher in a higher resolution. 
 
-skill should be +skill








And good luck with that on 3, btw ;) 
Kell 
Yes, I've messed around with the command lines so much the last hour so I got that wrong. Now, I'll try it on 3 in FitzQuake. Wish me luck! ;) 
Demiurg 
If you can get it to run in GLMarcher, i'd recommend that over FitzQuake - in FQ you will suffer massive packet overflows towards the end. 
Amazing And Awesome 
An instant classic to say the least. Amazingly beautiful and completely wicked. I won't spoil the ending - let's just say I had a hard time beating it even in god-mode... The next time I'll stick to normal (although I managed just fine until the end).
Will try to get it to work in GLMarcher.
Thanks for the thrill, Kinn. And while I'm at it - thanks to all you Quake mappers for keeping it alive. 
Badass 
QUake with a bit of a Q3 look and Doom style monster counts.

Fucking ace.
Shame it's only one level. I could have definitely done with more maps of that caliber.

That's going to be hard to top. 
Stunning. The Best Quake Map Ever. 
This is by far the best custom single player experience I've ever had...on any engine. I don't even know what to say.

First of all the architecture and build quality are incomparably wonderful. I can't even think about the work you must have had to do to get that to compile. The style and design of the areas are flawless -- I marveled at the architecture of the green winding staircases in the beginning part of the map. People could try for a million years and never come up with better style and execution than you have here.

Secondly, the scope of the design is so ambitious, that it makes me tired just thinking about it. I don't know what the timeframe was for you putting this together, but I'm sure it was a good chunk of your life. Let me assure you that it was time well spent, and I can see the hard work you poured into every inch of the map. The atmosphere is overwhelming -- I felt like I was in the most evil and ominous place in the universe. You should be very proud.

Finally, the gameplay on "Marcher" is remarkable. You were able to balance the exploration and combat aspects perfectly; never relying on either your brushwork or depth of gameplay to dazzle us, but rather mixing them evenly into a stunning blend. I was never too low on ammo or health, and if I was, there was always some waiting just behind the next tough battle. (I played on skill 2) There were plenty of secrets to reward your exploration, and the exploration of the map was a reward in itself considering how fantastic every area of the map looked.

My only issue with the whole experience is really minor, and that's the sound and sound FX. I thought that the "message" sound was a little cheesy...and I understand that you probably didn't want to fuss too much with adding even more custom content, but I think a minimal soundtrack, and some more atmosphere appropriate sound effects would have boosted the creepiness and experience slightly (which would bring it to 110%.)

This is landmark work Kinn -- you're not only proving that you're a hugely talented individual, but you're also doing a service to Quake, by proving that it's still the best game out there.

Bravo. 
Gosu! 
This was great. A campaign in its own right. I do however feel you're going abit overboard in size and lenght, for a single map. This could have been 4-5 maps easily =)

Anyway, a couple of things:

I got alot of HOM effects (pretty much only on skyboxes that was far far away). Is there some cvar or something I need to change in my setup?

There was a lack of rockets in the start I felt. Enough for all the zombies in the silverkey area, but with a couple of misses *cough* I had to take on a huge horde of knights and death knights with the SSG =)

Lightning gun ammo. I don't think I found any at all, except at the LG itself (I think there was 1 or 2 boxes there). Btw, was the LG a secret area? I dont recall hearing the ding-ding-secret sound. But I rocketjumped into there anyway, so I might not have done it the correct way.

Overall the map was superb! Congratulations! 
Fucking Great Map!!! 
this is realy pure art!!! hope will be a continuacion of this... congractila�ion!!!

one question to all!!! i use joeuquake for single player and fuhquake for Dm is there any other clients good for single player? that support 24 bits textures? 
Fov Issue 
The visual problem with HOM effects in GLMarcher seems to be caused by using unusual fov values. Using default fov 90 is recommended. 
Question 
Does this run on standard winquake? Am I the only one that doesn't use a custom engine?

I'll try fitzquake I guess.

Looking forward to trying the map though. Can't believe all this new q1sp greatness that has been coming out recently 
Than 
Instead of WinQuake, please use the supplied WinMarcher.exe :)

It will be a *much* smoother playing experience 
Also 
Than, additionally you may want to try GLMarcher for skybox goodness :)

Again, thanks for the excellent replies guys - Blitz: your review has made my day ^_^ 
;) 
hope you pick up bastion and this one and start making a great pack ;)already got 2 episodes :)))))

another thing were can i get your Dm maps??? 
God Dammit 
WHY'D I HAVE TO LOSE QUAKE 
SUPERB MAP! 
Awesome map!!! I loved basically everything about it, even the custom monsters which I usually despise more than anything!

Anyways, I forgot to record my first demo, but I ended up with a time of 29:43, only missing one secret and two monsters (skill 0). I was down to 1 health at a very critical point, but I hauled ass and managed to survive :-) I like this map from a speedrunners perspective as well, too bad you didn't include coop mode :-(

I'll have another go at it on skill 3 later this evening.

Cheers! 
Aguire 
Thx. That might well be the problem, since I normally play with FOV 115.

Going back to 90 after 7 years of Quake just isnt possible =) 
Forgot To Mention... 
...that I used JoeQuake and it ran fine. 
OMG 
Wow.

Not sure about all the stressing about engines; worked just fine in software joequake for me, albeit on skill 0.

Er. Not much more to say really. More please :) 
Eheh 
I�d love to see a big pak from kinn he is a realy great mapper! hope we dont leave us!!! ;) 
A Masterpiece! 
I've NEVER played a Q1 level as incredible as this. A true masterpiece. Phenomenal level design, unrelenting gameplay...it just doesn't get any better. Ran just fine on Telejano. 
Bing 
60 thumbs up 
... 
after thinking about it, just saying christ that was cool 
Thumbs.db 
Ehehe, how about deleting the file in gfx/env/ ;)
It's pretty useless for Quake, even though it doesn't do anything bad.

I'm through with skill 1, skill 2 is coming... 
JoeQuake Users (there Seems To Be A Lot Of You ;) 
I've just heard that JoeQuake doesn't support Kell's lovely skybox.

Again (and I can't stress this enough) GLMarcher is recommended here. :) 
Kinn 
If you want to work out why GL doesn't work very well on my linux machine, be my guest :)

(Hint: you don't). 
Mwh 
What video card and what linux distribution are you using? Post answer to General Abuse thread as to not to spam this thread. 
Kinn 
AFAIK, JoeQuake GL does support the skybox. You just have to load it manually with the loadsky dragonmarch_ command, together with r_farclip 16384.

The fov issues in GLMarcher can probably also be avoided by using another resolution, like 800x600 or 1600x1200. It seems to be an old GLQ bug that appears in certain combinations of fov/resolution. 
FitzQuake Rules! 
Kinn 
Can't add much that hasn't been said already... Anyway, this was one of the best maps I have seen ever for any game. Two thumbs up! I hope you you have had as much fun making this map as I had playing it (although I doubt it - it must have been horrible to get this thing to compile).

Well, thanks for creating such a marvellous piece of art for us. 
Just Replayed On Normal 
I had to cheat and give myself some ammo during the final battle. It was kind of weird, there were 2 red armors very close to each other, yet there wasn't enough ammo. The 2nd to last fight I had barely survived with very little ammo left and what ammo there was on the top of the bell tower was just not enough for the very last fight.

Anyways, very nice map. I cannot even image what pain it must've been to do the terrain alone. I am also really hoping to see these customs monsters used in other maps. You've quake'ified these quite well indeed. 
Can't Look Away 
beautiful screenshot... installing Quake now. 
I Played - And Was Amazed 
First my stats:

FitzQuake 0.75

Skill 2
Kills 378/378
Secrets 4/4
Time 94:20 (I wasn't in a rush)

I played this over a couple evenings. From the first curvy, cave, I knew this was going to be good (but the monster count did worry me) map. Then I saw the raised road to the castle and I knew this was going to be a very special journey.

Both the gameplay and the construction were outstanding and this map shows a super-human level of effort - I know because I'm struggling with my own maps - and this one raises the bar in a way that is both depressing and inspiring.

What's great:

- Outdoor terrain, approaches Q3 quality - incredible. Crushes my skill level for this type of work
- Curved stairs and halls. Those downsloping stair treads are so medieval. The colours are suitably dreary.
- Big exploration in a great big castle. This and Glassman's work are what Quake is made for. Just needed a few more ambient sounds.
- Tasteful and restained use of custom ents like rotaing brushes and collapsible floors. Nothing gimmicky - they fit in.
- Good use of custom monsters - again, pretty good and not gaudy. It was funny hearing those spiders make the Unreal Pupae sound. I think I also recognized DooM's Imp idle chatter and I can't quite place the dying flying, fireball throwing critter;s sound (what is it?) I think it came from Unreal as well.
- Good secrets - none too hard to find.

I finished without cheats. There was enough ammo but the real climax was very dicey. Good thing I'm a packrat and left ammo to spare throughout the castle. Great view from above. I killed all the tree guardians from the road! That was fun.

Two glitches on Fitz. One is the skybox clipping that is discussed above. I guess those parameters would fix that. I played at 1024 X 768 and would get some funky coloured lighting freakiness that I could get rid of by loading in a regular id map before reloading in another saved game from Marcher. That would clean the artifacts until the next reload.

Kinn - thanks a bunch for raising the mapping bar. This really is a great way to open 2005. Simply a magnificent piece of work and something that must have caused you enormous pain during development. 
Kinn 
Just a question: is it possible to run the map using FitzQuake only ?? 
Almost Finished 
I got the gold key now I'm lost: Thoughts:

- good work for Q1
- flying imp/whatever sounds are horrible, never rehash - but looked like they had good texes
- nailgun ogres were annoying but a welcome challenge
- liked the breakable floors/grates/walls detail 
Oh Yeah 
It's a bit too hard on EASY. 
FitzQuake Users 
Yes, it's just possible to run the map in FitzQuake.

However:

a) You will not hear most of the ambient sounds - many of you have commented on the apparent lack of them - they are there if you use GLMarcher or WinMarcher.

b) You will certainly get packet overflows in the final battle(s).

Again, (and I stress) Please read the readme file :) 
Kinn 
I've download the stuff yesterday evening, and I didn't found time to install it, so I didn't read the ReadMe file BTW... ;P... So sorry.... I was just trying to found a good way to play the level without "breaking" anything on my PC... anyway...
Well, I will for sure try it this night, and give you feedback tomorrow.... 
GLMarcher 
No luck getting GLMarcher to run in higher resolutions yet. It seems not be fov-related as it's the same in fov 90. I can't get it to run higher than 640x480 in vanilla Quake either - and the same goes for the glquakebjp.exe at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/.
Haven't had the same problem with any other engine. 
Weeee 
this map looks superb. when I can get a hold of a good MAC OSX compatible executable for an engine like darkplaces, this will be the first thing I play!

gj kinn, go apply for mapping job now 
Demiurg 
Please add the -condebug option to your GLMarcher command line. Start up Marcher once and then quit after the map loads. Email me the produced qconsole.log file (it appears in the marcher folder) together with your system specs and command line and I'll take a look at it.

GLMarcher can run in resolutions from 320x200x16 to 1600x1200x32 (windowed or fullscreen) if your system can take it. 
Good Job 
Q3 texes in Q1 remind me of czg07, which was another masterpiece.

The only things I didn't like were the last two gaurochs (kind of odd trying to kill them up on those moat walls), and the fucking incessant donging that kept up across the entire map until you did. Left me with a headache that persisted for a few hours.

Oh, that and FitzQuake075 would throw up patchy orange lightmaps everywhere when quickloading - dunno if that was covered here already. I found I could clear it by loading a different map (start.bsp was nice and quick) and then quickloading from there instead.

Otherwise, what everyone else is saying. :)

(Special thanks to Jago for providing me with a new copy of Quake) 
Amazing Map 
Yesterday I finally came to play this awesome map. Everything was already said in this thread. This map is superb, stunning, gigantic. The size of architecture gave me the feel of reality. New monsters are also great. And I can�t even imagine how did you build the terrain.
I was playing on easy, and don�t know if I want to try it on normal � your map is very difficult already on skill 0. The final battle was very hard for me. The only hope is that there is enough armor on higher skills.

Thank you for this amazing map. 
Lun, 
i think that's related to the skybox bug where the lightmap slowly gets replaced with bits of skyboxness.
fq 0.8 is supposed to fix that though. :) 
Awesome Map 
I saw so much praising, and so many dudes playing it at #tf that I decided to give it a go, and damnit if it isn't the best map I've played in years, definitely great.

I don't love the Quake 3 textures, but that's a personal objection. Other than that, the map absolutely rocks, it's vast, big, hard and totally impressive.

Damn good work, Kinn. Yeah. 
Skill 0 Vs Skill 2 And Secrets 
Surprisingly enough I found that after playing through on skill 0, skill 2 wasn't *that* much harder if you kept an eye on the ammo situation. I even found that I'd left a bunch of health boxes and some nails lying around after the final battle while I was looking for the last damn imp... Skill 3 next, I guess :)

And finally, is the LG a secret? Because if it is, I can't find how you're actually supposed to get to it -- I've found a few ways and not hit the relavent trigger. OTOH, if it isn't it's way too hard to get to :)

The map is still awesome, by the way :) 
Lightning Gun 
In hindsight, I probably should have flagged the LG as a secret, yes. It's certainly not necessary to finish the map (although it does help ^_~)

The LG should be easily accessible once you reach the belltower - it just involves jumping down a few levels. Once you reach this point in the map, a teleporter will have spawned in the LG area, letting you quickly get back to the tower.

You can also reach it from the Brown Tree area with a bit of careful leaping.

In addition, it is easily accessed from the ground during the final-final battle - the rusty iron bars that previously blocked access from the terrain will have mysteriously lowered...

^_~ 
Dammit! 
That means there's a secret I haven't found... which means I'll just have to play through again... 
File Mirror 
Is there a mirror for this file, I've posted a link to this thread at another forum encouraging others to try the map, but they're having problems getting it. 
Phait 
Not at the moment, AFAIK.

Link seems to be ok for me though :) 
 
Kinn, do you want me to mirror it at fileplanet? 
Small Problem... 
does anyone know how to avoid this? (it happens on a few very large maps)

www.geocities.com/cfitz85/1.jpg
www.geocities.com/cfitz85/2.jpg

I'm using macGlquake on a G4 macinstosh

otherwise, this (bastion also!) is one of the most stunning and enjoyable maps I've played :) 
Connor 
It's the farclip distance that is too low (old GLQuake 4096). Depending on what PC version your Mac version builds on, you might be able to change it. Look in readme for something that resembles farclip. Otherwise you'll have to change engine/platform. 
Fantastic Experience 
I dont regret relearning Quake to play this level. Your well planned layout of interlocking rooms really give it a sense of place... not just various rooms cut out of a vast invisible space.

This map reminds me why i fell in love with quake to begin with. Great job. 
Fps ~5 
I got really lousy fps outside, I think less than 10. And somewhat lousy inside too... The Quake engine doesn't seem to handle this outdoor stuff very well on my low-end p3-500. :(
(I can't check since fps showing doesn't work?)
No graphics bugs whatsoever though, I'm using glmarcher and nvidia gf4 mx400 :)

Otherwise it's got lots of incredibly nice stuff. 
It Is Really Beautiful Work 
Kinn,
I have spent well over four hours emersed in this world you have created (the mood is set quite well with the story line; it being kind of evocative in a solitudinal Robert E Howard sort of way) in two consecutive rounds of play.
I would clear out areas and then use console commands to see what was under the hood, how you organized your brushwork, and testing the r_speeds in various areas.

Mere technical interests aside, this map is pure pleasure in terms of game play and that quality we loosely call architecture. The Q3 Gothic style has not looked this fresh since December, 1999 when we saw q3dm7 for the first time.

More so than Bastion (I'll explain in a second), I loved the game play. A different tact had to be taken at every turn. From rounding up the spiral stairway slowly and rousing one creature from a group with a pop of a nail gun to leading voreballs down crashed-in attic ways into hapless zombie victims, the scenerios were just so nicely varied.

Bastion was quite the adventure, but the hoard combat was more overwhelming in it in many areas. As I joked earlier, I had to finaly cheat to get a victory out of Bastion. With Marcher, cheating wasn't necessary. I had to reload a save many times, or run past an area and regroup later, but god moding never became necessary.

It was just the most fun I have had in a while. It is definitely up there with Last Cup of Sorrow, Ceremonial Circles, Bestial Devestation, To the Death, and that level by RPG the name I can't recall, Pen- something . . ., in being my most memorable game playing experiences.

PS. I'm not Bob Hope this time. Yeay! ;) 
Fitzquake Fixed That 
ha! Wonderful engine that fitz, it says in its readme that there's a new rendering codepath that should be faster for big scenes and boy it sure is!!
I must report this stuff to the quakeworld community so we get some of that sweetness too. 
See Metl, 
<i/> it says in its readme

People DO use your documentation! 
Bam 
well, fitzquake is not based on the quakeworld client, but on the netquake one.
you'll want DarkPlaces or something like that for a quakeworld client. :) 
Necros 
darkplaces is a quakeworld client since when? 
Since Always, Afaik. 
thus the funky physics and bugs that are present in quakeworld (ie: bunnyhop bug)

at least... that's what lh told me. O_o 
Err 
QW does not have a bunnyhop "bug", but DP does. I specifically asked LH what is the bunnyhop bug caused by and he told me that he has no idea. 
Darkplaces... 
i'm pretty sure darkplaces is based on glquake, which is a netquake client. However, it's not impossible that lordhavoc has added support for the QW protocol, since he's cool like that. 
Hmm... 
well, dunno. i'm just saying it like i remember it. :)
i was pretty sure dp was a qw based engine though. 
Replies 
Once again, I'd like to thank you all for the great feedback; there are too many of you here now for me to thank individually, but rest assured I have read through these with a big smile on my face :)

Also, I'm leaving for the USA tommorrow (for the first time), and probably won't be visiting this board as frequently for a while (well, it depends on how soon I can sort out an internet connection).

Before I delve back into the mappery, I'm going to buy that beefy computer I've always wanted, catch up with some of the newer games (Doom3 is out, you say?), and maybe start learning about more generic modelling in Maya. It's too early to say whether I'll be doing a Quake 1 follow-up to this map, but rest assured, I'm far from finished with this series.

^_~ 
USA? 
What part? 
Lunaran 
Minneapolis. Bloody freezing there this time of year, I gather. 
Freezing Indeed 
No truer words were ever spoken...brutal there this time of year. Safe trip/good luck:) 
Kinn 
I've just finishing the level after 1 hour and half, just fighting to survive, in easy skill, using god mode sometimes.. What a level !!! Like all other guys here, I love this map... Castle architecture is impressive, etc... etc.. All you did in this map is simply... gorgious ... pfff Sincerily, you really build a pure piece of art... It's for sure the very best map I've ever played since Quake was released (since 1995 in fact..) Kinn, I will look forward for the next episode; and relase it as soon as possible please, I will not be able to live without the next one...
Thanks a lot for this excellent fighting moments you gave me.. 
Lunaran 
I was just trying to remember whether it was you who had an unfortunate run-in with a tour-bus while working on the architectural boat tour in Chicago. I took the tour myself a few months ago, but it was too short notice to ask you which company you were with, or when you worked etc. Not sure why I bring this up now, I guess something reminded me. 
Spectacular Map 
I got clobbered many times but loved it! Atmosphere, Textures, Architecture - all 10/10. Really liked the Blue Key Door, and I spent some time exploring - neat reservoir/dam, and the little moat - and I found both backdoors into the fortress ;) Really enjoyed the three dimensional aspects of the combat (climbed back up into the fortress for a better firing position a few times during the end battles).

Great map - very enjoyable experience! 
Fantastic Stuff 
bloody hell that was good. It's hard to believe that people are still producing such gems for a game that's 8 1/2 years old.

I only played on normal, since I haven't played quake for a while, but still found the map quite challenging. I loved all the new monsters, and the map itself blew me away. It was reminiscent of czg07 in ambition, and more than lived up to it by providing some of the most memorable quake gameplay ever.

I particularly enjoyed the bell tower section, although it did get a little crazy around there. Lots of edict related errors were occuring and I lost sound. I was playing with fitzquake, since I can make glquake look almost exactly like high resolution software quake using it :) The only problem was that when I reloaded the level after dying, all the lighting was fucked. I found that I could fix this by loading another map before reloading marcher.

Fucking fantastic work, Kinn! More please! :) 
Than 
that's the skybox bug that messes up the lighting and not related to the map. 
Necros 
I assumed it was down to fitzquake.

man, I love fitzquake though. I am a fitzquake convert now. Winquake can suck my balls. Glquake isn't good enough to suck my balls, it can just fuck off and burn in hell. 
Plus, 
with 0.8, that bug will be fixed. ^_^ 
 
*THUD*hint*THUD* 
Secrets... 
...only found 3 (Megahealth, Nails&HealthPack underwater, Pentagram) where the f is the last one? Should I look harder? Just went through it the nth time... 
S3krits 
when four of five somethings do something, look at the fifth :) 
Rkan3&Myst3rious... 
...I like it! 
Superfluous To Add Any Comments Really. 
But an absolutely excellent map. Really superb in both design and gameplay, and plenty of inspiring moments to boot. New GFX and monsters were fine too. In fact the flying things were good!

There were a few minor detrimental things: New sounds were unnecessary/distracting, some areas could have done with easier ways "back up", and the odd texture thing.

Other than that, it was all spot on. Favourite bits were: the castle itself (and the way it was used through the map), the Shambler falling through the floor, the amount of knights coming out of the castle, the little room just before the circular room with the GK door (the curvature in this is lovely. And the final battle(s) which are a great example of how to have an OTT finale without bland arenas and tedious respawns - I spent a long time running around various angles checking out the best tactics for the finish. People should learn from that.

Errr...

Skill: 2
Time 1:10-ish
Kills: 384 / 384
Secrets: 3/4
Deaths: None

w3rd 
One More Thing... 
That damned bell....very cool, really added to the atmosphere...."will someone stop that infernal clanging" etc =) 
Yeah - Nice 
Fantastic map! The part in the beginning where you come out of the cave and see the valley with the castle in all its glory is awesome. Textures are good and the gameplay rocks - new monsters only spiced things up. And it's not too difficult - or even confusing. I don't remember getting lost at all. Took me about 40 mins. 
Excellent 
Nothing to say that hasn't been said, truly great and enjoyable experience.

The only problem for me was the fact that you had to (well you didn't really have to) use an engine that didn't have model interpolation,(I just can't bare to play without it) and the sound quality in said engine being lower than I'm used to (Sounds muffled etc). But after a few minutes, I went back to using nglquake, which ran it fine, some problems caused I think by the sky box and sound issues near the end, but I got my model interpolation and sound quality that I am used to.

Great job, look forward to the next 
Vorelord, 
you could have used DP, which is fully supported and looks great for marcher. and it's got model interpolation. :D 
Yes 
but there's something about DP, To much wizz bang or something, I'll have another look at it soon. 
Hehe, 
i know what you mean. almost all of the stuff is disableable though, just takes some time as most of the things aren't in the menus and you have to play around with cvars. 
Necros 
The showstopper for DP is the fact that it has majorly broken physics. Try bunnyhopping. 
I Know About That Too. ;) 
i was just giving alternatives. 
For Kinn, Hell! 
Visually, very impressive. And that's in winquake on the lowest res. :-) (Bit of packet overflow in the final battles but that's to be expected).

Gameplay was just superb. I particularly liked a couple of things, let me think...

Oh yes, I was stood up on a ledge with some armour and below me kinghts and deathknights just kept piling out of a door. Seemed like hundreds of them. Same in the penultimate battle, as well as the stuff spawning around the big white thingies there was stuff constantly running out of the tower. Great use of doorways all the way through, I thought.

Um, yeah. There's a box of shell in a little broken hole in the wall and a spider jumped straight out into my face. If I'd have been wearing underpants I'd have had to change them. As it was I just had to give the chair a bit of a wipe down.

Other things too, but I can't remember. Everyone else has probably mentioned the already.

One slight niggle. When the flying dudes throw a big ball of fire at me and it hits the wall about an inch away from my face I'd expect some splash damage. Not much, just enough to know that I'd been singed by hellfire.

Oh, and I couldn't find the LG. I could see it from below but couldn't find anywhere above it to drop down to it from. 
Lol 
Um, yeah. There's a box of shell in a little broken hole in the wall and a spider jumped straight out into my face. If I'd have been wearing underpants I'd have had to change them. As it was I just had to give the chair a bit of a wipe down. 
Morfans 
The LG requires a little bit of exploration and some jumping to reach - probably a bit difficult for someone who runs SDA :P. 
Morfans 
(Bit of packet overflow in the final battles but that's to be expected).

Not if you use WinMarcher :)

a spider jumped straight out into my face.

Hehe, that one's a nasty little bugger ^_~

Good point about the lack of splash damage on the Imp fireballs - I'll probably fix that for my next release.

Glad you enjoyed it ^_^ 
Morfans... 
...after those comments, I'm wondering if you wouln't be up for some alpha testing.

What do you think? 
Distrans 
I'd be happy to do some testing for you.

my name at speeddemosarchive.com

Same day feedback won't always be possible but usually within a couple of days.

Shambler: bah!

Kinn: One other thing. I'd found all 4 secrets by about 1/2 way through the map (although I did save the pent until the end). They were all good secrets but knowing that there were no more to be found I stopped looking in all the corners and behind every decoration from then on. Small point. Oh, maybe this is why I didn't find the LG... 
Morfans 
Yeah, I'm kinda regretting not flagging the LG as a secret area - although I personally felt it wasn't tricky enough to qualify, others seemed to think it was. 
Save Me Trawling... 
With FitzQuake the sun is behind the castle as you emerge from the start point. This is clearly where the sun should be according to the shadows.

In DarkPlaces, the sun is behind you as you emerge from the start point to face the castle. And, therefore, the shadows are in the wrong place.

Presumably this is because DarkPlaces handles the skybox differently.

Comments please: is it important, does it spoil gameplay, is there a workaround etc? 
Mike 
LordHavoc and Kinn had a little confrontation on IRC about this - yes, DP aligned skyboxes incorrectly relative to every other quake-engine games. LH implemented a fix, though I don't know if that version of DP was/is released yet.
Given that dramatic setting is the principal achievement of this map, I'd say correct skybox alignment is important, and that's not just my obvious bias talking ;) 
Kell 
OK, thanks. I've tried the latest version but it's no different.

I agree that sun, shadow, skybox alignment is important. It really jumped out at me when I tried DarkPlaces. 
Yes 
This is why I hate most custom engines - they have the uncanny ability of making the map designer look like an idiot :) 
Yes 
Though map designers frequently achieve the same effect all by themselves :P 
Out Of Order 
what irc server do u guys use???
i use quakenet are u at enterthegame? 
Trinca 
irc.gamesurge.net 
Heh, 
i never even noticed it when i played but yeah, the skybox was reversed for me too. :P

...but i rarely notice things like that anyway.
o_o 
Skybox 
Is correct on my DP beta - but those never get posted on the DP website - you have to ask LordHavoc for them. Maybe he reverted the skybox back to the wrong configuration for later versions, I dunno o_O

Lol, Kell - I remember the skybox palava in #tf - I can't be bothered to go through that again O_O 
 
didn�t find irc.gamesurge.net :( in my mirc...and i got a huge list!!! 
Trinca 
I think you can access via a web browser using http://www.gamesurge.net but I'm not sure, correct me if I'm wrong..... BTW, I never be able to connect the irc using this method... doh...8P 
Trinca, Just Add New Server To The Server List Dammit 
yes 
Bleh 
Just type in /server irc.gamesurge.net 
Cant Download 
any other links? 
PWND! 
Poor nitin. I did a quick google and the Fileplanet link is dead too....perhaps it was a limited edition thing you'll never get to play now?? 
Got It 
off underworldfan's site :) 
Wow 
everything that needs to be said has already been said but this was perfect in my book. Nice mix of set piece and general level desgn both in terms of gameplay and visuals.

I would just like to make special mention of the new monsters which fit in so well that they didnt really feel new at all, rather when I encountered them it felt as if they were always part of the quake world. I hope they are used in future levels because they are very good additions (especially the flying imps although the big creatures at the end are fantastic too). 
Btw 
I used the nehahra version of DP because it is the only version of DP that I can configure to my liking even though it runs a bit slower than other engines. The skybox appeared correctly in this version. 
Good Work! 
Amazing map, its a shame that no matter how I configure any of my engines, it runs slow when you leave the cave and see the first view of the castle 
Not Slow 
in fitzquake it is fast, use that, it has rendering optimizations. At least for me, in GL. the specific glmarcher was slower. :/ 
Try 
adding cvar gl_subdivide_size 512 to your autoexec.cfg and restart. In maps with a lot of sky it can make a big difference. 
Problem 
My problems running it in GLMarcher turn out to have a simple reason: it doesn't support resolutions higher than 1280x720. I tried to run it in 1280x960, which is the res I used then in FitzQuake (1600x1200 on my new comp)...

So there you go... Still looks great in 1152x864 though. 
I've Run It 
in 1600x1200x32 (fullscreen/window) without any problem (GeForce3). I think it might be your gfx card (ATI?) that possibly overflows the old GLQ limit of 32 video modes, effectively disabling the higher resolutions.

Try the updated GLQuake 1.26 at my site http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k and see if it helps, it has support for 128 modes. 
 
aguirRe> Yep, I have a X800XT PE. Thanks for the tip - will try it out. 
 
aguirRe> 1.26 works perfectly in 1600x1200x32 as well. Nice. 
Thanks For The 
confirmation, please also check the above mentioned cvar gl_subdivide_size, it really helps in this map. 
Resurrecting This Zombie :) 
I did some coop testing with ZQuake's server today as it works with NQ progs.dat for QuakeWorld serving.

How come in both Bastion and Marcher there is no weapon stay with "coop 1"? This takes away any chance of playing coop on them without cheating. :(

On other mods it works fine so there must have been some change about this in the progs.dat. Any chance for a fix? 
Taking A Guess 
I'd hazard a guess it's due to entity saving changes. In unmodified Quake, the ammo entities aren't removed when you pick them up, even in single player. So if you change the code to do this, then you're gonna save on entities that can be reused. It'd probably be safe enough to revert this change on just the weapons, so that they can stay in coop, but you'd need to make the changes. 
Ah 
Quite understandable. Kinn, would you release the sources for the bastion and marcher progs.dat files? 
Wow 
This is the map of the century! Im speakless at how anyone could make something like this and with Q1 damn it! Wow, it just goes to show that a good texture set in the hands of mapmaking genius can produce such an amazing thing.

The gameplay of skill 0 was tough but enjoyable and the final battle, is just *epic* and fantanstic all at the same time! I love the new creatures, ambience, layout and pacing, it was all flawless.

16:40:57 czgMarcher : holy fucking shit Kinn
16:41:06 czgMarcher : I mean jesus fucking christ
16:41:15 czgMarcher : what the fuck is fucking wrong with you?
16:41:22 czgMarcher : because fuck
16:41:26 czgMarcher : that was fucking awesome
16:41:33 czgMarcher : fuck


I to have to agree with czg, OMGWFTBBQ this is amazing. :)
I have got to play some more of this map ... 
Yes 
Marcher completely blew my mind when it was released. 
Bastion 
Was great as well. Marcher has more epic brushwork, but Bastion isn't completely left out. 
played through both (this & bastion) yesterday for the first time in ages. they're both still incredible. marcher very slightly edges it but you're talking like the best and second best q1sp maps ever made :)

was quite a weird sensation clicking on to start.bsp after the end intermission in each; it's never seemed so claustrophic... 
Kinn Has Left? 
i agree, marcher and bastion are the milestones in q1 mapping. does anyone of you here know if kinn is still somewhere round here? i'd love to see more kinn's work. 
 
Think Kinn pops up on #terrafusion every once in a long while, but it's been a while since I've seen him myself. I think he got a job in the industry somewhere? and doesn't really map for Quake anymore.

Also he has a drinking problem I'm pretty sure. 
What Industry Did He Get Into? 
maybe his ass should be the next speedmap theme.

I hadn't played bastion forever - since it came out, actually - and had forgotten how amazing it is!

the architecture is not nearly as impressive as in marcher, but it's still pretty good, and the sense of scale/hordes and cohesion of the unit blows me away... minus the Q2 chaingun guys. but they're fun and awesome enough for me to let that slide. 
Marching On 
Finally completed the map on all skill levels and wow what a rollercoaster of gameplay experiences. :)

I especially like the horde style epic battles at the end. They were tough but I was still able to complete them because I had all the weapons and enough ammo. There was plenty of AI around to start infighting which helped my kill ratio alot :P I think that was the key to making the horde style fun for me, was I had the right amount of weapons to fight back.

I still can't get over how this was created for Q1, the initial cave section is awesome with the fiend walking away and the consistent use of knights and medieval monsters meant the atmosphere was always consistent. The scale of the map is large but it still felt right with low ceilings and large caverns. I liked the trick with the angled stairs to gain height quicker. (I did a similar trick in one of my own maps)

Overall, the best medieval epic castle map I have played so far for Q1. It really should be top of the Q1SP charts somewhere! :) 
 
the architecture is not nearly as impressive as in marcher

really? i don't think there's that much of a gulf between the two in terms of architecture. sure marcher has the amazing exterior setting, but the some of the buliding designs in bastion are insane, notably the end arena and the earlier battle arena prior to entering the underground section (with the quad).

bastion also slightly edges out marcher in the fear stakes; parts of the the underground complex prior to meeting the first shuffler are truly creepy, remembering the swinging gate in particular! the layout is also more extensive and you cover more ground than in marcher. it certainly has plenty of things in its favour

but marcher just left that little bit more of an impact, mainly because of the how well it handled the inside/outside divide and the sheer volume of space you have to play in. and the belltower XD 
Sock: 
another really awesome medieval map to play is Day of the Lords by Glassman. 
 
^that would be #3 :-) 
Architectural Gulf 
Maybe I over-stated it.

I think that the architecture of Marcher benefited from the cohesion as well.
there are almost no thin walls, etc. everything is bulky and rounded, whereas in bastion there are more square angles and also thinner trim/walkways/decorations etc.

But I probably overstated it. I mean, both get 10/10 from me, so it's totally relative. 
Coop Broken ... 
Most engines have external .ent support (DarkPlaces, Quakespasm, Mark V, FTE, ... )

Marcher doesn't have coop spawns. Easily fixed by an external .ent file adding 3 more info_player_coop.

With coop 1, the silver key does seem to permanently disappear, I can imagine a trigger remove the silver key door thrown into an external .ent file could fix.

Anything else that prevents it from being fully coopable? I've cooped it a few times and haven't noticed anything that permanently blocks progress ... 
Reading Up ... 
Ok weapons don't stay either ... 
Don't Bother 
Coop is broken in the actual QC in worse ways than just a lack of spawns.

The lack of weapon stay is caused by my (often pointless) code "refactoring" which I failed to bother testing properly in multiplayer.

The monster and item spawning will also be totally wacky.

However, my current QC base has fixed all these issues, and when (if) I get around to releasing my current episode (lol), it will include coop-friendly versions of Marcher and Bastion.

It will also solve world peace and give you a soapy tit-wank. 
Code Request 
Kinn,

I was just reliving the glory days of this awesome release. Do you have a problem with me ripping a few of your monsters for my map/mod? Would it be possible to have your source qc files for your monsters?

I'll be waiting for your reply. (If you take too long I might just decompile the progs like I did for...oh wait I don't do that, it's too sneaky)

Over here mapping happy,
Qmaster

The castle will rise... 
No Problemo. 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/61424391/benQuake2QC.rar

This is my current codebase. It reverts a lot of the cosmetic changes from marcher, so most sounds and gibs etc. are back to how they are in normal quake, but the marcher monsters are still in there.

This code is about 95% identical to the marcher code I believe - code I haven't really touched in 8 years, so to borrow a phrase from the Carmack, "there's probably a lot of embarrassing crap in there". 
Mr. Kinn 
i'm begging you to release something new for Q

depends on your free time and all that jazz though,

seriously 
You're Like Mike Bossy NYI Player 
if you get what im talking about 
Spy 
I'm working on something for quake, oh yes. 
 
kinn_curry_un.zip 
 
omg I wet my jean!!!

so awesomeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee 
Thanks Kinn! 
 
/*Kinn's Code... 
is awesome.

//=========Commenting is phenomenal===========

//Here we congratulate Kinn for providing the
//best commented quake code ever;

//---------End comment------------------------
I'll be digging through this for ages, it's a gold mine!
*/ 
You're Welcome :} 
 
Sprites Transparency 
Kinn,

All your sprites have black instead of index color 255. There isn't any transparency to them. What's going on? How'd you get them to work?? The imps are shooting squares at me! 
 
Don't blame the mapper, blame Darkplaces. 
I'm Using Darkplaces... 
Unless of course you mean that only Darkplaces recognizes the pink 255 as transparent, which I know isn't true. But if they only work on Darkplaces, then, why aren't they working?

I have the .tga files in the directory and in the .pak file. I checked the tga files though and I don't see alpha channels in photoshop.

*shrugs* 
I Think What Spirit 
meant was the other way around:

The tranparency in Marcher is not supported well by darkplaces for reasons unknown to me. I have tried to run Marcher using darkplaces not long after its release, but seeing all those black edges around explosions etc, I reverted to using the exe files bundled together with the release. 
Qmaster 
The tga sprites use additive blending. This is how it worked in Darkplaces at the time of Marcher's release.

I cannot guarantee the map will render or work properly on any engine released since then.

It works in FitzQuake 0.85 - I'd recommend just using that. 
Late For The Anniversary... 
Secrets 
It might be worthy of note that I've literally stumbled into
all the secrets during the several replays: fighting an imp,
falling down during a battle, in midst of another using an
explosive weapon, and searching for alternative routes to
get back to a higher level...it felt like this might indeed be
the way it all was intended. 
 
...it felt like this might indeed be the way it all was intended.

sure, I'll go with that, thanks! 
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