|Posted by metlslime [22.214.171.124] on 2002/12/23 18:27:46|
|This is the place to post screenshots of your upcoming masterpiece and get criticism, or just have people implore you to finish it. You should also use this thread to post beta versions of your maps.
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[[[CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A NEW PASSWORD FOR THIS AS THIS ONE IS UTTERLY FUCKING ANNOYING]]]
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Good model Chillo!
It's a bit rougher than the original, as it comes out to be more solid.
I miss the gunflare.
Qmle has a poor grid (512x512?).
When scaling a model down to get it fit in qmle, it often has given me a jiggled size. Then I tried to start them the right size, so small movements don't get scattered.
Thank you for the tips and demos
Yes, there appears to be some jiggling (Seinfeld reference).
I may need to rework the model completely. It wouldn't be too big of a deal. Right now, I'm remaking the fiend, and making sure the vertex wobbling doesn't occur any worse than the original model.
If that model comes out looking solid, I'll apply that technique to redoing the enforcer.
Thank you all for the support and suggestions!
Apart From The Skating.
That is cool as usual :)
That shotgun reload is very smooth. Great stuff:)
Agree with Shambler about the skating... loving each update. Cannot wait for this.
Glad You Guys Dig It
I'm using func_train for lighting tests. feet will get dialed in when working on the actually entity.
Cannot wait for this.
you and me both!
BETA: The Dreaded Dreadbase Of Dread
some time ago I wrote a tool to mass-convert directories with textures to Quake .wad files (https://github.com/maikmerten/QuakeTextureTool). One of the texture sets I applied this to were the textures from FreeDoom.
Clearly, I had to try these textures in a map.
The result (I still consider this unfinished, but playable - a *beta*) is "The dreaded dreadbase of dread". This is my first Quake map, so I'm not sure if it is a) somewhat fun and b) if the difficulty is roughly okay. I can breeze through this thing quite easily, but then again this map offers no surprises for me.
(Includes sources, the .bsp and .lit).
I'd be interested to know if this is something that can be salvaged into an enjoyable map.
For the most part I do like the textures. I am kind of a wad fiend so will look at them in more detail.
The map was fun and very good for a first map.I must say it's probably too easy on Skill 1 because I am a pretty crappy player as you can see if you ever watch any demos. I was playing this at work with a trackball so sorry for the herky-jerky movement. I was playing very cautiously so I only died once. 2 demos here:
I gave you some notes in the demo but I want to add that i think there are too many crates. This is a very doom-y map - and that's fine but add some interesting details to your base. Also the stairs are kinda bland at the moment. Maybe some side with interesting textures and such.
Play Arcane Dimensions: Critical Error map for the pinnacle of base map design. (IMO) It may be some inspiration for you. Here's a 'tube but I recommend it. Fun, crazy map.
Congrats and make sure and update us on the next version or final.
Sorry. I just happened to notice the link above was a shortcut to the demo zip. Here's the correct zip file with my demos for your base1 map.
Wow, thanks a lot for your playthrough and demos! This is extremely helpful!
I agree on the crates - a cheap way to fill room without clear purpose since 1993. I need to reduce the overall count of those...
I hope freedoom.wad is useful - all credit to the FreeDoom texture artists, of course!
No worries. That's what func is all about.
not fair using a replacement grunt model to make your engine look better :)
Ha! Retroquad's MDL renderer still sucks anyway.
Besides, better is subjective. I'm sure a fair number of people will think my engine is just weird.
Also, what I actually wanted to write instead of the parenthesis was "Quakespasm screenshot for reference", to tell which engine was the hardware-accelerated screenshot from, but Twitter's 140 character limit wouldn't allow. It wasn't my intention to sound unkind or to be unfair.
By the way, IIRC I've put all replacement models into a pak11.pak file, but most engines won't load non-sequential .pak files. Either that, or that model is in the test mod dir which I use to test Retroquad.
The map isn't exactly the same either, the one in the Retroquad screenshots was recompiled with lit water. That's also why the shadow in the ceiling above the stairs is smoother.
is it different than quakespasm/MarkV's "contrast" cvar? (I'm not sure how it's implemented in MarkV, but in Quakespasm contrast is just a multiplier applied to the framebuffer; every R/G/B value is multiplied by the value of "contrast", has gamma applied to it, then is clamped at 255. Pretty sure the output is the same as MarkV.) I'm guessing from the "pal_" cvar name, you're manipulating the palette.
I think features like this are great for playing on laptops / under non-ideal lighting. Turning up "gamma" very far just results in a grey washed out mess.
Shots Look Pretty Good
a bit plain, sparse etc but I like the general vibe. Would recommend being careful with the coloured lighting.
New Grunt Model
especially like the more gaunt look with the skinnier arms - like he's shrunk as he became zombified and now the armour is too big for him.
I think it's cool that you're working on redoing some Quake models. Would be interesting to see some unique creations rather than recreations.
Finally They're Equipped With Shotguns!
Liking the emaciated looking grunt model! Also, actually seeing the corrupted soldier wear a measly shotgun instead of the futuristic looking rifle of the vanilla model really adds to the picture of the soldier having become more or less a brain-dead zombie.
Looks Great Chillo!
I wouldn't want to see those grunts down a dark corridor yikes!
The Grunt's Eyes Remind Me
I'm really enjoying doing the Quake remodeling right now, and it's helping me brush up on 3D art. I do have a whole list of original monster ideas that I plan to get to once this project is finished.
Found an elephantalk
Which Instrument(s) Would This One Play?
It's like a Delek mutated by some kind of infestation.
Whats that fro madfox?
DJing On 6 Decks From The Look Of It.
Dj tentacle b2b2b2b2b dj tentacle.
What order does a quake monster have to be?
That was the question that came up to me.
Keeping in mind quake monsters are rather gaga and comick-like they do tend to a darker behaviour like creeping freaks.
My personal feeling is there could be any kind of creatures, at least as it is low poly, has a hazard potential danger, and does not meet the reasonable forms of civilized beings.
At least that's my opinion.
No problem with Bender, MrBig, or JackJazz.
It's just a temperary study in func_cloth function. Animation of secundary movements like swing & balance are rather hard and time consuming to attach by hand.
A "cloth_attach" is a computed weight counter, that gives the model its gravity forces. That way the tentacles move in a natural state, without adding all perticular states by hand.
So I took an OldOne look alike, turned it upside down and started to give it some random movements.
When finished it looks like an elelphant snail.
It has aptitude for music, moves like a starfish, like to puzzle cryptograms, and gives explanations for its behaviour.
widow model and lighting test
after a recent string of failures I decided to revisit my fist enemy design... and it turned out pretty good! I really like the classic ghastly look, very creepy. her speed and evasive maneuvers should make for a tense fight. I'll probably regret giving her articulated hair (6 segments per hair leaf!) but it should look pretty sweet.
learned a lot about blender and modeling in general with this one: alpha channels (hair, teeth), multiple texture layers (super flexible!), vertex groups, masking, etc. lots of valuable knowledge here that will be very useful going forward (and repainting the previous models).
@chillo - looks good :D
@madfox - did you make that or is it from something else? my inner japanese school girl is frightened.
She looks great man. Super creepy. And that RL... sweet.
wish I could take credit for the RL. it's from DN3D and being used as a placeholder.
Yup Creepiness Confirmed.
Updated BETA: The Dreaded Dreadbase Of Dread
I took the liberty of updating the beta for The Dreaded Dreadbase of Dread.
- fewer crates, trying to compensate with more interesting architecture
- tweaked enemy placement
- more sophisticated secrets
There still are some areas I'm not happy with regarding how sparse they are, but I think this should be a nice update regarding the previous beta.
If someone finds time to record some demos, that'd be awesome!
i'll try to record a demo
but i'm pretty limited to explain my expession
Re: Updated Dreaded Dreadbase Of Dread
Just noclipped through briefly, and there are some definite improvements. The brushwork is much more interesting visually. The staircases look a lot better, and it's particularly good how you've broken up some of the large grey swathes with tech details and/or rusty browns, and some more detailed brushwork, e.g. in the first room. The map can use more of that: there is still a lot of monotone grey, and those grey textures really only come into their own when thrown into contrast with e.g. brown/techy textures.
The boiler-like rusty structure you added in the second room is also very nice, not only for the above reasons, but also because it immediately makes the place seem more real and less like a game level, by hinting at mechanical processes going on in the background and a function that the place may have, other than simply being a space for the player to traverse. Plus, by adding chunky structures into otherwise wide open spaces, you're immediately making the gameplay more dynamic, by giving the player ways to break line of sight (which is invaluable in a map with many hitscan enemies like grunts, in my opinion) and opening up ways of engaging with monsters. I'd say the map could use a lot more of that as well, as the spaces are still very, well, spacious.
It's good that you reduced the number of crates, and the remaining crates often fulfil the above gameplay purpose (breaking up large spaces) -- but they still don't look that good in my opinion. I don't think the crate texture and the square brushwork are interesting enough to be used as such a prominent element. The map would be improved if you replaced more of the crates with architecture -- e.g. mechanical structures or pillars instead of a row of neatly stacked crates in the middle of a room. You could then still plonk in a couple of crates here and there for extra visual detail/extra diversification of space afterwards.
I saw what I assume to be new secret areas; those look enticing. At some point I need to play through the map properly and find them. :)
TLDR: Very nice changes, but I'd say take it even further.
Also: it's interesting to see your progress. It looks like you're just replacing the download and the screenshots as you update. I tried to go back to the earlier screenshots you posted for a side by side comparison, but they turned out to have been replaced by shots of the updated map. This is kind of a pity; it would be great if you could rename the updates something else, e.g. base1v2/v3/etc. or something. Just my 2 cents. :)
@spy And @former_total_newbie
@spy, thanks for your willingness to give the map a try!
Thanks for you quick look - I agree that there's more to be done. I often find that it takes quite a while and much experimentation to come up with interesting brush shapes - I guess I'll need a few more iterations until the boxy feel of some locations is fixed.
Yeah, I was foolish enough to not keep old screenshots around. So, I created new screenshots of beta1 and beta2 in areas with significant changes: http://maikmerten.de/base1/comparisons/
here's the skill3 demo
i liked a lighting very much, the gameplay itself
was around the id maps
Wow, your demo is very useful! You're certainly playing quite differently from how I approach things (great jumping skills!) and I now see that some encounters don't always work out as intended.
For instance, it never occurred to me that one can simply cheese out of the Shambler fight by leaving the arena, I always go in guns blazing. But then again I don't play on skill 3 ;-)
Also never noticed that the Shalrath doesn't trigger when staying in the elevator.
Seems the secrets are too obscore. They are marked visually and/or via geometry, but it appears it's too easy to miss them.
I wonder why you seem to dislike the lighting gun. Does it make things too easy?
Thanks four your kind remarks regarding the lighting. I spend quite some effort on tweaking lighting to my liking, and your comments enforce my impression that lighting is, indeed, very important.
I'm a bit of a drrunkkk, to explain some thing prroperly, sorry
speaking of a secrets - i'm failed its plain and simple
about the shaft, it seems i have missed the super nailgun, but i'm strongly believing there ain't no need for a lighting fgun(Sorry for my broken engleesh)
overall , it is a great map to starting on (Sorry for my broken engleesh2)
Shots Look Nice
sparsity not always a bad thing. some good little touches here and there.
Reccomendations>>> maybe non wood crate texture? JF2 texture pack or whatever by Metl has some nice basey ones that might fit well. That one for the oblivion mod? Someone please clarify if you could
re shot 3 having some trim around the holes through which the big columns recede would be a bit more visually pleasing.
one other way to break up monotony, eg in shot 4, might be some recessed computers or vents in between the panels. Again could mine the aforementioned wad, or even rubicon2 for some that might work there.
can't comment as to gameplay, sorry!
New Demon Model
Personally I don't think a fiend would be so gaunt, specifically around the biceps. They need to look as though they're capable of smashing through armour with a single eviscerating blow.
Where Are Eyes?
...here we go again
its "bicep" could be bigger, but overall looks great. Also what about adding some blood to the ends of its claws?
Claws Paws And Maw
Then again it would explain why the poor feller is starving. Ya beef up the biceps a bit, and feed the poor guy and he'll be grand. I love fiends! Looks neat.
Looks Perfect As Is
... except yeah blood claws.
lil biceps work for me.
The more gaunt appearance works for me, because it seems like the fiend hasn't eaten in a while, which in my mind makes it more wretched/dangerous.
I don't think I like it as a fiend replacement, but it has the beginnings of an interesting monster -- maybe an additional variety on the fiend? The thinner claws make it look a little like a bird carcass or a Half-Life headcrab in-game, which is unsettling (in a good way). If it had a faster clawing animation than the fiend, I could see it becoming a nicely terrifying monster.
The whitish hooves look fine in the editor shot, but in-game it looks like the fiend is wearing white running shoes. The open mouth during the attack animation also doesn't work for me aesthetically.
I can adjust the biceps, maybe adjust the coloring on the hooves. Adding blood will probably help as well.
I'll also see if I can adjust the mouth during the attack animations. Make it more subtle.
Thanks for the feedback, everyone!
I can adjust the biceps, maybe adjust the on the hooves. Adding blood will probably help as well.
I'll also see if I can adjust the mouth during the attwck animations. Make it more subtle.
Thanks for the feedback, everyone!
Can you adjust the eyes, to make them exist?
I Mean, He's Not Wrong
Never understood the eyes vs no eyes Fiend argument myself. At least the Shambler's fuzziness is questionable enough to be worth arguing about (including two opposing official stances, A. Carmack saying it's flesh and Romero saying it's a shaggy yeti coat), but this isn't 1973, it's easy enough to open up the pak files and look at the Fiend's texture and gaze into its piercing yellow eyes
. Yes, there's an extra bit at the top that, if applied, removes the eyes, but it's unused in-game (as everyone should damn well know because we're not barbarians playing with texture filtering enabled making the eyes impossible to distinguish anyway, right?).
Those Aren't Eyes,
they're turn signals.
Shamblers Are Fleshy
Fiends have eyes
Vores are called vores
Spawns are called spawns
Scrags are called scrags, have eyes, and are fleshy.
The Shamblers Are Also Farting A Lot
Dude, why not adding a spiky cock under your fiend model? That kind of long and thin spike that kills a butt!
Again, I think I like the concept art more than the model. The texture is very clean/flat and I think the enemy design is kind of homogeneous so far. It's good to keep in mind the silhouettes when designing a character
Plus I think more colour variation would help make the different enemies stand out even more. :)
@chillo - I agree with the advice given here so far. In-game his arms look small and awkward rather than intimidating. Otherwise, he's very cool and still a sweet model nonetheless!
@qmaster - I thought shamblers had matted fur?
@fifth - useful feedback, thanks! I think they can be pushed more in their shape and paint job as well. They're a bit bland atm. There will be much more diversity/stylization among the remaining ten enemies :D
Shamblers and scrags have similar skin. Scrags don't have fur.
Shamblers have sinewy features in their skin texture, notably on their right arm and thighs. This looks more like skin stretched over a gaunt bone structure (similar to a scrag or vore).
Shambler is derivative of a Lovecraftian Dimensional Shambler, which is definitely NOT a yeti.
I Prefer My Fiends Eyeless.
@killpixel whatever you do, just do it; explode! your talent is exponential. Then back-step and pick up the bigger pieces. You do good work. stop worrying about the now. you will, kick ass when you meet your goal.
Shamblers have shaggy hair, matted with the blood of their victims. The hair around their claws gets singed when they charge up their lightning bolt which produced a sulphurous odour that follows them around.
Fiends have vestigial eyes inherited from whatever lowly wretch Quake corrupted many millennia ago, but the once vibrant orange glow has been lost as the eyeballs have receeded in to the skull and the horns (once standing proud and vertical atop their head) have migrated down to obscure them further, making their charge attack all the more deadly. Who needs to see in Quake's gloomy halls, especially when you're a mere puppet of some omniscient ancient evil?
Scrags have a faintly transparent, pallid reptilian skin, and they can turn incorporeal to move through walls.
But real Quake fans know all that already, so I don't even know why I wrote it really.
From: Adrian Carmack <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Subject: Re: Shambler: Fur or no fur?
Short Bristly Porcine Fur HTH.
Your Face Is Porcine HTH.
@qmaster - interesting. Apparently It's confirmed by adrian carmack as well. I will do my best to unsee the fur :/
@r00k - Thanks r00k, I appreciate it :D I'll take your advice.
So I've added more blood, beefed up the biceps a little bit, and darkened the hooves.
I've also added eyes. There's no question that the fiend has eyes, they're just so subtle that I didn't think it would matter.
Please let me know what you think now.
BETA: Shifting Planes Of Existence
I'm still fairly new to this forum (and Quake mapping in general) so I'm just following the convention set by SavageX regarding the format of Beta posts.
So I finally got around to finish my first beta version of a quake map. It's pretty rough around the edges, it's currently only balanced for "normal" difficulty and the artpass is absolutely not done for the time being, but I really want to make sure the gameplay is at least tolerable before giving it some visual polish.
It is a medium sized map, takes about 20-30 minutes to complete, with 106 monsters and nine secrets. Its main gimmick revolves around button-operated dynamic "planes".
(Includes .bsp and .lit. Requires Qouth)
2nd screenshot is very moody! Nice!
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