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Screenshots & Betas
This is the place to post screenshots of your upcoming masterpiece and get criticism, or just have people implore you to finish it. You should also use this thread to post beta versions of your maps.

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what Sielwolf (and Scampie) said, the wings could look a bit more massive and spaceship-like to match the Quake 2 theme.

Unless you want it to look like aeroplanes, in which case you succeeded. :-) but Strogg tend to use spaceships. Those typically look more massive than planes.

One of the Citizen Abel maps has a cool starship, I think. The Reckoning also has a space fighter, which you escape in at the very end.

I think Ground Zero also has a space fighter, in the Hangar/Anti-aircraft cannon unit.

Don't stop, Quake 2 needs mappers! 
That's hardly a Strogg freighter. 
That's hardly a Strogg anything. It's a personnel transport ship from "X-Com: UFO". It's just something I felt like making in QuArK :).

- Mike 
Which is quite apperent as its X-Com counterpart is displayed right next to it. Is it for a X-Com Q2 mod? Might be something for pope and bambuz. 
Well, there is a redone version of X-Com using the Quake 2 engine already. I tried making an open field like one of the levels but it never VIS'd. Though I do have notes on how it could work using default Quake2 (No mod).

- Mike 
There's no need to sign your posts, the board already let's us know who posted.

Hey Scamp 
You ain't doing it right.

- Mike 
Is "-Mike" The New "Bees"? 
something to think about

- Mike 
FMB_BDG Probably The Final Re-Resurection Of The End Maybe 
Mike Hamwood 
the brick texture you're using in most of those shots is a little too intense. 
look real nice zomggg this will be a hard bitch to fuck :)= 
Morning Woodham 
I like the rockwork in the third shot. Good to see you're trying to finish the map after all. 
Motherfucker yeah.

I had an idea you were going to do the sequel Mike, good going.

Really looking forward to this. 
looking forward to this one for sure.

Now I don't want to sound demanding, but it'd be great if the gameplay would match the looks: dark/evil/hard etc. meaning the first part had far too much ammo, which took off some of the mood for me. 
He's Back! 
*does the happy Quake dance* 
I Don't Think Mike Ever Went Away 
but he does get too low key at times for those of us who think of him as the cool, older brother the func board. Wicked nice pics, too. 
Oh, And That Lava Is Fantastic! 
Yeah Looks Good. 
With Lun 
on the brick texture, stands out too much. 
It's Funny 
to see all the effort people put into making Quake 1 look awesome, and yet the gun is still sticking out of your chest.. :P 
I think the guns actually come out of the Quake guy's mouth, due to them being so close to his eyes and you have to only point the guns where ever you look. 
Don't You Change The View Weapons! 
Don't try to make quake look any "better" or you'll have to pry the viewmodel out of my cold dead mouth. 
I Must Admit 
I quite like having a shotgun sticking out of my mouth.... 
A Favor 
< ctchtchhcg> someone go post a guns == dicks joke here: 
Mike Woodham 
The end of the first map was completely tantalizing and I was really hoping you'd do map two - in fact I was actually lamenting the fact that I'd never see it just last week - and here's a bunch of new shots. AWESOME. You've really mastered forcing Quake to do curvy terrain, not to mention huge maps, technically you're one of the best Quake mappers and you've always had the ability to set up and efficiently link dramatic setpieces. Very much anticipating the map. 
What I Like About Mike... 
...he's the quiet workhorse of Quake mapping. You don't seem him much, don't hear him much, and pretty much every map is supposed to be his last, but he's still there, covertly beavering away on something that will appear at some point when you least expect it.

*raises glass*

P.S. All you other mappers are cool too of course, well the ones who release stuff anyway ;) 
ye shamby but i�m the most sexy and cool!!!

P.s-> normal i�m Portuguese... 
Yeah But Trinca 
You aren't in the same league.. I mean, when was the last time you did any covert beavering. 
Water In UT3 
Does anyone have any idea how to make the water make visual splashes when you jump into it in UT3? I have a working UTWaterZone and it makes a proper splashy sound when I enter it, I also have a sheet-brush with the water texture, but quite obviously since they are separate entities, entering the UTWaterZone does nothing to the sheet-brush surface.

How do I make a visual splash effect? 
i start to be a lover, now i love everyone even nasty czg :)

/me wants peace and love!!!

/me want to finish tchak and make some in here to reconize that my mapping skills are not as bad as some in here think!!!

god bless you all 
Is Trinca Junior behaving a bit better at the moment then?? ;)

P.S. I don't think your mapping skills are bad, your maps are good and I've definitely enjoyed playing them. 
That was supposed to go into Mapping Help 
Dear God 
I really wish I did not think about the ambiguity of Shambler's post.

Anyways, now to make this not yet another "chatting on a message board" post:
Are there any Quake maps that feature nice visual illusions/tricks? I mean stuff like geometry that looks like something else if look at from a certain angle (not simply "hallway hidden with shadows" stuff)?

You could make a level that looks innocent, but if you look from a secret place it spells "you like sheep".

Like that art thing where there are stripes in a room and from a certain angle you see geometric forms from them (can't be arsed to search the links). 
In The UK On TV Channel 4 
they have an advertisement scheme which does that with all sorts of stuff - coastal rock formatons, cityscapes, ornamental gardens, industrial areas and stuff like that. As the camera moves you see a "4" appear from the stuff in the shot, then dissappear again as the camera nangle shifts...

this link ^^ the first clip is a good example, the next two aren't but the rest after that are....

this one ^^ is cool! Although you can only see the "4" for a couple of seconds

...ahh, you get the idea. There are loads of these.... 
go map! 
You're playing 4od, the best place to play the custom maps you want, on demand.

Part of me does intuitionally revulse at the idea of art/creativity inspired by advertising gimmicks... 
Cs_starling Public Beta 01

Cubemaps might be fucked, lighting might be fucked, the whole damn map is most probably fucked.

If there is no func_ cs:s server running custom maps, I might be able to host something for us to playtest maps on. Might.

Comments are unwelcome, expected, probable, and will of course go ignored. 
I Think There Was A Map Called The Fly 
by markus klar. 
I Could Have Almost Made It 
immortality would have not been so difficult to adjust to, the chasm of time would have been a cinch if not for bees, markus klar fly references and Sunday Afternoons, things that I refer to as the long dark tea time of the soul. 
You mean like in Doom, where e3m2, The Slough of Despair, is actually in the shape of a hand?

The Fly is the only one I can really think of for Quake, although nowadays with the ability to rotate textures and keep them aligned (lol the sideways section must have been a bitch for him), it'd be much easier to do.

One time I was gonna make a Heretic 2 SP map, in my usual Arabian theme, and have the whole map be the shape of the heretic sign, that the player would see when he exited, and flew above the city (it'd be a spacemap) 
I Mean (for Example) Stuff Like This
But actually pointing at something. It's a load of work making it point properly.

Maps whose overall shape is something are nothing "special" for the player (except for rpgsp1 of course). 
I call it the Brunch of eternal misery.

Now there's a speedmapping theme. 
Oh Yeah, 
Wrath, if you don't want or care about comments, why are you posting on a messageboard? 
Are you retarded?

I'm not asking to be mean, or to imply anything, I just think it would be good to know for future reference.

Are you an intellectual infant? Are you slow-witted? Have you gone soft in the head of late or were you born such? 
I Was Dropped As A Child. 
Fuck you. 
He Doesn't 
care about comments because he doesn't understand them.

Also Wrath, some screenshots would be spiffing, especially as Func_ doesn't have a huge CS:S following and therefore you'll have to make an extra effort to get anybody interested.

Aside from the fact that I do happen to like CS:S, absolutely nothing you've posted has enticed me towards your project. Shame. 
"especially as Func_ doesn't have a huge CS:S"

roulfff if we got any someone shoot the bastard for playing faget games... 
What kind of wankers play CS anyways... 
Aside from the fact that I do happen to like CS:S, absolutely nothing you've posted has enticed me towards your project. Shame.
Yeah, I was so looking forward to your specific input.

Screens are at 
you french sausage-rider, what say you get yourself unfucked post haste and join the program?

Anyway, I'm the kind of wanker who play cs:s. Or rather, we play it on our lan-meets. So it was either a cs:s map or a q3ctf, and the q3 editors all suck more than shambler used to do.

You know, when he still had most of his teeth and only whored himself out for money. 
I Was Dropped As A Child.

Although not from a great enough height.

Are you telling me that you didn't understand what I meant in my original post or are you just trolling for a fight? 
My point was that if you want feedback, the normal way to go about it is not be a cunt.

But hey, maybe your method will work as well. 
It'll Fail 
because there seems to be a func_wide aversion to cs:s. Fine. Be that way. See if I care. Fuck all of you forever. 
wrath is back. 
Func - 1 Wrath - 0 
...and the Quest for the Holy Crate continues. 
What The Fuck Id CS:S?!?!!?! 
forgive me bt I dont know...

btw those screenshots looked cool (eh? megaman)
nice map.... 
You have to wait for the entire round to end before you respawn? The fuck? For that reason alone I have never played and will never play camperstrike.

p.s. screenshots look good, ignoring the vaguely homo-erotic man-on-man action that seems to be taking place with the human figures inside them. 
I want to kill you guys on q1 DM. even if its that DM Q1 level which is METAL with the lava and the RL....

I'm completely in=experienced at doing it with Q1

tell me what to do and I will do it. 
Washing The Map 
Run my map through deathmatchmaker to fit all textures again. Then the map got broke because of it's size. Imported it in Qoole, which was the only one that would import it.

All lights were damaged, and all the funcs got a delay=1, even the lights. Now i"m back on trace, at least all textures fit. Now I exceeded the lightmaps again.

What is this nasty habbit of recompiling a brush with just a thin 1 size brush around it?
Can't see the meaning of an empty brush as that it consumes massive lightmaps! 
Deathmatch Maker is an absolutely terrible editor. I'd avoid it at all costs.

And to the CS:S haters: Sorry it's not Quake and sorry it's so popular everywhere else, but it is still quite a fun game. 
Im serious

I dont know what CS:S is.

Cascading Style Sheets?

Counterstrike. I suppose. That's meant to be a well popular game isn't it!!! Hehe - never played it... 
Counter Strike: Source 
But yeh, you've got the right idea.

Give it a shot if you get the chance, it's a fun way to while away some spare time. Provided you find a good server -- a lot of them get trolled by people like Wrath. 
the second shot looks nice, but the castle is only one texture. Some variation would look much better (wooden trims, metal buttresses...).

Looking forward to play. 
Give it a shot if you get the chance, it's a fun way to while away some spare time.

I'd rather watch paint dry tbh. 
Nice that it's got lotsa different styles and colors like in real world. 
get quakeworld.

Nquake is a good package for beginners:

Ezquake is the name of the quakeworld client.

Then when you have quakeworld go to, find a uk server from the list, copy its ip address, then open up ezquake, type "connect ipAddressHere" and you're there.

Or that's one way to do it. 
I Mean 
ezquake is the client provided in the nquake package. 
you can paste to qw console with ctrl-v 
Thanks For The Tips 
Trinca just blew me all over Quakeworld
Aerowalk, dm2 and dm6. Heh - was fun
ezQuake is very easy to use.....
now I know how, I intend to try and kill you ALLL!!!!!!! 
Map It To The Wall 
texfish: I use DDM because it instantly retreats my textures back on grid. I never noticed texmislignments.It also stamps all my brushes back to integers which makes it easier to find the "sick" brush. And despite of all other errors, like crazy broken patterns as it was winqbsp, it never returns with HOM's.

Sielwolf:The original map was at the same max lightmaps, and although I compiled it as good as I could, it caught Hom's and leaks (aargh).
reason I tried this rather stupid way of converting the map to compare the right parts.
Point is I always need to stuff things up when I ain't got brushes left. 
I'd Recommend Worldcraft 
if texture alignment is your main problem. I've never come across a more user friendly texture system. It won't just do it all for you, but to be honest I can't understand why you'd want to hand control of texture alignment over to the software anyway. 
Worldcraft 3.3 
Select all brushes => select "texture application mode" => click on "fit" or "bottom left" or "center" => "Voila!!" 
Quark's texture tools are amazing too. If only the thing would not be so slow. 
I second that, QuArK has modern texture tools and the possibility to set the texture scale, rotation... manually like in bsp. 
Why do you mappers not like GTKRadiant? 
is difficult to break in to. I've had it installed for years, but every time I open it up I just find myself questioning whether it's worth finding my way around it. It's not very straightforward for beginners. 
GTKRadiant = pain in the ass to start!
Quark = pretty easy to start... 
GTKRadiant, bsp, ogrier are very similar in my opinion. Once you learnd one it is not that difficult to learn another of these.

QuArK is completely different 
Never leave us, wrath. 
Tex Mislignments 
I'm just mapping brush for brush, so it is evidently I break up in a total texture mess. I never noticed untill someone made me aware.
Even now i find it frustrating to spend houres matching all those creepy lines.
I only used this DMM because it also returns a map without HOM's or leaks. At least that's a positive thing of the programm. I can throw away all garbage and keep the the good part.

I tried worldscraft to see if it has a easier way to convert them,
thanks for the tip.

I'm so convienent with Quark that other editors always make me wonder how to use the buttons.
I tried NewBsp but I couldn't import maps, only make them.
QRadiant made me search for houres to even start.
I know, they're good editors, only I am a impatient manual reader. 
Also there are two boxes "to world" and "to face".

Select all brushes with messed up textures


Press texture alignment button


Tick box "to world" and set scale 1 and 1, also alignment 0 and 0, then ENTER

you can select textures by clicking the 3D window (yeah!), [shift] + select lots of textures!!

then quick button - bottom, top, left, right, center, fit. 
in Worldcraft 3.3, not 1.6. Also move, rotate brushes and the texture NEVER goes wrong. Texture lock is perfect. 
just finding my WorlCraft versions.
Aargh, why did I never got the official version.

it's like with Qoole, I can download all the updates but they all go wrong on 300 brushes limit version. 
Yet More Randomness 
1.5 works, but 3.3 only install the halflife version. So my tex is still offline. 
OK, Solutiion:

install Worldcraft 3.3 to "c:\program files\woldcraft\" (default)

if you put it anywhere else this wont work

install quakeadapter, linked to above

your textures must go in "c:\program files\worldcraft\textures"

it will now convert any textures in this folder everytime you startup Worldcraft, all ready to use... 
Aguire's TxQbsp.exe will work with the converted half-life textures.

in Worldcraft, click tools => options => build programs to see the set up for build programs.

F9 is the button to compile and run, but you can use a command prompt.

"csg" is set to "nomapversion.exe"

what this does is remove Half-Life KEY "mapversion" "220" from .map file.

this can be also removed in a text editor but its a non-critical error. 
I Concur; WC3.3 Is Very Powerful 
it's worth the trouble to get it working. 
Dust In The Air 
Here is my attempt to create another theme not normally seen in Quake. A desert theme complete with cacti, buffalo skulls, and a saloon.

This map is designed to be played with midair mode, a mod where the object is to launch the player off the ground using only rockets, and then blasting him while in the air.

This map is also practice of my mapping skills, and to see just how precise txqbsp is. Many of the small details in the map like the cacti and skulls are off grid, and txqbsp does a nice job and putting them all together.

Be forewarned though, if your computer isn't equivalent to that of a rocket engine, you won't have stable fps. Small as it is, this map is very heavy on framerate, especially when looking down from the sky.

But again, its just my attempt to try something different. I doubt it will get any gameplay because of the performance drop, but it's nice to look at.


Download with .map and .wad included: 
ORL u sent me the map and i�m sorry becouse i didn�t saw it at the right time!


i think map is pretty cool but the upper part should be remove!!! midair dont supose to have a place to rest up...

second thing! the walls of canion should also be 100% vertical they could have the curves u�ve done but noclip brushes so the player can some stright down and not rest in walls!!!

anyway is a cool map i like the theme a lot!

now go fix those things and people will play it for sure becouse if pretty nice!

ops forget to say :) if this version is diferent from te last u sent me i�m sorry becouse i might wrote some stuff bad... but i will see again properly today if i have time! 
Oooh, desert theme. Wasn't there a Q3SP mod with a similar setting?

(Go on, 'how dare you mock my inability to finish projects' and quit, go go go ;) 
I Think It Was Called 
Coriolis Dune


heh heh

Heh heh.

Gotta love the fact Lun's just a joke these days...

Go on, quit >_> 
Be Nice To Lun 
I like him now. He's consistent and honest. And his maps and textures are really cool.

ORL - That looks fucking cool. It would make a cool part of an episode, say if you went through a base map and the slipgate at the end was malfunctioning. Then all of a sudden


You fall from the sky and land in the middle of a desert. That would be a cool moment. The cactuses and buildings look really well done. 
Cool Cool Cool Cool. 
I need a new word 
Not Taking That Bait 
because I'm quite confident in what I've been working on this month. 
Are you implying that if we catch you on a bad day we can make you quit? :Awesome face:

What you been doing anyway? 
It's Happened Before 
I just didn't give anyone the satisfaction of a fiery last post.

I've been working on lunsp2. 
GrindEntity: How's your new map coming along? 

You're tripping, I don't map. Like I said in the Mystic Gemini thread, I spend more time in photoshop these days. But if you mean how's my latest commission coming along, it's fine thank you, I've got the concept/art finalised and am now abstracting it into various horribly corporate mediums (I'm such a hack).

And I think Grintity is probably the best portmanteau tbh.

Sweet news Lun, don't let the evile last 5% stop a release plix :) 
RickyT #2007 Thanks for the link! 
when I lie in moon eclipses
patiently watching sun's wink
reflecting on her moon shape whispers
that duke3 moon jet laggers me kink! 
I Ment 
why are those links such a shrink. 
there once was a mapper named madfox
whose maps were all leaky and badbox
his posts make no sense
a masterpiece which you whom
the twinge comes to get follows, arranges screenshots of places and or accurately completes it from the order as people, kindly there is entrusting 
I comprehend the feeling of rime you reply and won't argue the reason why you (as always)want to intrude me, as I still need a dictionary to understand what YOU mean..., but

I can't see why you turned on the fourth sentence. I won't call you a Buthead for you explained well my reaction when you piss me off. Good article from IRC. 
thanks for the texture help in Qmle. 
I do like you.

coincidentally, where is that papercraft program again? 
Rolling On My Ass 
coincidentally, where is that papercraft program again?

Seriously, I had to go get a cough drop for my throat after laughing at that one. 
When I was trying to construckt an Orb base I came to the point I had to work with parts of the model. This for a construcktion scene.

So I reconstruckted the model with brushes, but when I was ready the model needed so many brushes I could only use a few in a small map.

Then I remembered the voidents from wazat, which includes mdl files, so now I'm using parts of the model in facts. They tend to use almost no data. 
I Guess James Cameron Was Right After All, Back In '84. 
This is how the world ends.

It has been...emotional. 
No Fate But What We Make 
since you're back, maybe you should tell us what's happening with the rmx contest. 
Whats that all about? 
A Few Shots 
alright I made a Qexpo booth, and posted some shots of my upcoming projects

There is (what may be) a surprise at the bottom

Not all of the shots are great, I could have posted less shots, but whatever. 
Re: Shots 
arcanum shot2: badass
roman shot 2: badass
roman shot 4: badass

n1! ^_^ 
arcanum, all shots look badass.

others look good but not as good as Arcanum. 
arcanum and roman look great! dunno what else to say other than arcanum and roman look great! cousin roman!

this makes me hate myself for never finishing anything! i need some extreme inspirational text/video to get me into mapping for more than 1/2 hours. 
Awesome! I can't wait for all of them, but especially A ROMAN WILDERNESS OF PAIN. I think I once downloaded your scraps for that aswell (when you put them all on your website) and was gonna do something with them. About an hour in, I changed my mind :D But I loved the theme. 
the scraps! that's why that name sounds familiar! iirc, you seem to have moved away from the extreme red blood + white stone motif... or is that just not in the shots you posted? i loved those scraps. ^_^ 
haha nakashuito, if I can finish stuff that's been unfinished for 9 years anything should be possible - and I am finishing this stuff, these projects will be released this year (except unforgiven).

Re: Roman Wilderness
Pretty much all of the scraps are in the 4 maps in some form or another - the white stone stuff is in map four, the roman shot 4 is the start of map 4, so there's more of that type of stuff in there that isn't shown.

Re: Arcanum
I tried not to show too much - frick I'm retarded, even now I'm rebuilding my maps to a degree (lol) - Arcanum shot 2, shows part of an area that is my favourite area out of all my maps, so I don't want to give it away really. Lighting that area has been a horrible bitch (although I suck at lighting generally, being used to doing maps almost totally set outdoors) 
Fucking shit that looks amazing.
I used to play the roman scraps all the time, so I practically pissed my pants when I saw that you're working on it. Arcanum of course looks badass. I'd like to thank you for being such a fucking workhorse! 
Anyone See Matthias Worch's Qexpo Booth? 
h;s making another map. 
I Like This Guy!

He "plans ahead" the same way I do - I dont! 
Fuck ME!!!

I really hope this guy finishes his map - @The Nightmare@ - bathed in blood baby! 
The Nightmare 
has giant peanuts! (1st screenshot).

just saw arcade quake and it looks funky as hell :) 
Oh The Fullbright 
That's The Worst Map I've Ever Seen 
i thought it looked cool :( 
It Does Look A Bit 
'busy' architecturally. Hard to see what's what. S'pose when they get some lighting in there the contrast will make it easier to pick out relevant details. 
that's a Kona map. 
looks evil :) 
if all you have to contribute is trolling then stop posting on this board. 
Reminds Me Of 
Grindmill - which always felt like it a should have been a q1 map ;) 
Kona's Maps 
Were among the first usermade maps I played and I just thought I want to make maps too.

Can't wait to play that map ;) 
that's a Kona map.

Pretty much. 3rd shot looks particularly kewl tho.

And kekeke@Lun 
Hang on...

I'm confused, is that now a map in progress or are you just duplicating the scraps screenshot from the QExpo thread? 
nah i want to finish it, one day. might change the textures though. 
well its not exactly anything to get excited about atm:

Im going to South Africa for three weeks on the 15th. I honestly dont think I will have any gameplay in place at that time, although when I get back it may be fairly imminent! :P

still this is the first map of the episode. or atleast the first one I will have made for it..... 
Re: Arcade Quake 
Is it done by the same people who made Target Quake? 
Vague, wireframe editor shots really aren't very imformative, or let us offer any critism of the map Ricky. Not really exciting. 
I Know Scampie, I Know... 
I just didnt want you guys to think I wasnt busy! Atleast you can see roughly how much I have dont since 'RMX :P 
Trying Skyboxes 
Your doom1map1 is coming along pretty well. 
yeah but i hope you intend on putting a little more detail into those rooms 
you do use visgroups right, just deleted em for this shot? 
Sort Of - Half Correct :P 
I group things all the time, and I used to use coloured visgroups in WC, then hide some when I was working on a specific part, but I prefer just to have all of the lines in the 2D windows white, and I dont bother hiding anything anymore.
My vis-"blocking" is a lot better than it was :) 
I Never Use 
visgroups either, but I think I'd need to learn to before building anything that complex! 
Opinion Please. 
Which shot appeals to you more, and why?

In four hundred words or less. Please include references and a bibliography. 
Because it has warmer colours. Like 0.0001%. 
Because it doesn't have warmer [or more uriney] colours. 
Because I don't like yellow taint on B 
That's a really fucking gay custom Quake engine you're using there... 
it doesn't make any goddamn difference at all. "warm" or "cool" is a much bigger decision than "50% saturated" or "60% saturated." quit obsessing over it. 
Thanks everybody!


Yeah. But then again, fuck your mother.


The difference is more than simply ten percent saturation. It's desaturated and then color graded to drain the blue out of the picture. I've also adjusted the levels slightly.

A is completely undoctored, by the way. 
clearly the next-gen solution is to desaturate it and hue-shift everything to brown, so B obviously.

After all, that's what sold the bazillion copies of Gears of War, not the fun visceral combat or anything.

Keep tweakin' those colour levels! 
feels cleaner 
wrath stop mapping for crappy games!!! go make a proper Q1 map :)


ps-> i cant coment on a engine i dont know ;) 
Post Processing 
covers up poor art direction and bad lighting.

Can't coordinate a project well enough to pick colors that match in any given scene? Fix it in post!
Your lighting model (or your lighters) too shitty to make a scene look halfway believable? Fix it in post!
Blew your texture budget so hard the entire scene devolves into visual noise? Fix it in post! 
Are you upset that Aliens: Colonial Marines post processed over your stuff? 
The color difference between shots A and B is less than the color difference between two randomly chosen monitors, so it's pointless to worry about it. 
Trinca, why can you not comment on the aesthetic appeal of two comparative images? Imagine they're actual RL rooms, I assume you can deal with that concept (unless you continually walk into walls in your house because it's the 'wrong engine')

A btw, it looks more realistic, less game-y. But as Lun says, it makes little difference. Either would look good if I hadn't seen the other. 
They Look The Same To Me! :P 
The level looks quite cools though. I like the organic element to it - like it's genuinely a bit fucked up because its a bit old n' stuff. Nice work!
Also: - you must have a massive monitor.... 
Can't coordinate a project well enough to pick colors that match in any given scene? Fix it in post!
Your lighting model (or your lighters) too shitty to make a scene look halfway believable? Fix it in post!
Blew your texture budget so hard the entire scene devolves into visual noise? Fix it in post!

I have no idea who pissed in your cornflakes, but it wasn't me, alright?

There is no project, there is no texture budget. It's just me and hammer, so take a deep breath and suck my cock. 
Lun loves you really. Everyone pissed in his cornflakes. 
Uh Yeah 
I liked B better, looks warmer and more natural. 
I Think He's More Offended By Post Processing 
than he is by Wrath's shot. I guess I can see his point - it's the same theory with minlight. Less colour-diversity I would imagine.

Still; popcorn at the ready!! Sunglasses. Bad Afro haircut. No, wait, thats an Alien Ant-Farm music video..... 
(A Is Better) 
lighting looks better in it. 
B has better contrast but oversaturated colour. 
wrath, they're exactly the same. I can see they're different, but no one in the world will ever know or care when it's in motion.

And if the lighting was a bit nicer with some better contrast and mixture of cool and warm colors, that version would look infinitely better anyway. 
what scampie said... plus that scene is kinda boring.... 
So was your post. I for one want my money back. 
Charges you to read func? 
what game is this? and yes, your monitor is fkn monstrous 
Looks Like Counter-Strike: Source 
If you can call it a game, that is... 
It's counter-strike:source, yes. And my monitor is a 20 inch wide, nothing monstrous. 
Unlike Your... 
Nah, you don't want to scare the ladies. Mine is fascinating and friendly, yet strong and reliable. 
Not As Bad As Worch's Shot:

He must have a bigger monitor! :P
But you know what they say about a man with a big monitor..... 
That is 1600*1200, no? I actually run two 20" wides next to each other for a total of 3360*1050 of screen real estate. So, you know, neener neener.

But you know what they say about a man with a big monitor.....
He needs a powerful graphics card? 
No Worch's Shot Is 1080x1920 
and if we're having a competition
I'm using 3 monitors - a 22" 1680x1050 (or whatever it is) a 19" 1440x900 and a 19" 4:3 1200x1600 :P

And what they say is that he's mprobably compensating for something.....

Editor does look pretty nice. I have to get round to installing it. 
Some Screenies From My New Q4sp Map 
Looks interesting ;) 
ohhh fuck PuLSaR took the wrong side of the force :(

anyway looks nice... now comeback to Quake please :) 
don't worry, i think you'll see my new quake release pretty soon 
Goood !! 
fucking great!!! :) 
q4 - awesome :D

quit with the indoor tech though - try to do some outdoors stuff at least.

just about every single bloody doom3 custom level i've played is the same indoor shite from doom3.

just played the haunted house custom level for serious sam II. now this is a game with HUGE variety in design and themes, and yet this guy went off and created a completely unique theme and setting. this is what the id tech 4 really needs, more diversity.

it's no wonder unreal's engine dominates id's in terms of licensing. 
Outdoors are the things that i really love to make in maps for any game. My q4 map is divided into two sections, the first one is completely indoor and the second one is a mix of indoors and large scaled outdoors 
A Dirty Vis-skin ... 
looks nice pretty isn�t a Q1 map :p 
petty not pretty :\ 
Lighting's A Bit Too Saturated 
for that texture set IMHO.

What is it? Tourney or ffa? 
FFA. It's not intended to be used as a tourney map. 
give me src map, Ill make it into q1sp 
you mean "pity" 
Yes pity.

And for the love of gods, please stop pointing out whenever something isn't for Q1. We know you only play Q1, we don't care. 
metlslime yes thks

nonentity i care... stfu 
So Care Quietly And Stop Shitting In Every Thread 
Shitting is a natural human function we must do, some more than others 
That looks pretty good. Lol @ the German name. It's tempting to do that. 
Care Quietly 
That would be good on a shirt, or a bumper sticker. (Seriously.)

@T.C., that looks really nice,, it's certainly green, isn't it?

Green sky + green light from the sky (I think?) + green weapon markers + green flags + green liquid (I think?), etc.

Maybe at least make the liquid and sky differ, or if it's just the sky light, maybe desaturate it a notch? Or something?

Dunno, maybe it's just me. 
TF2 Map 
looks fucking sexy petty it�s a map for total shit game tf2 :p 


Looks nice, especially shots 2 and 5. Don't play TF2, so don't know how the detail level compares to stock/other custom maps, but some of the walls/buildings look a bit sparse (shot 3 is a good example of this). Possibly more prop use would help. I'm aware that there is a limit to how many aircon fans you can place, but windows/inaccessible fire escapes/crates nailed to the side of a building mebe. Other than that, the general look of the level is nice, good intersection of buildings to create a varied hull/play space. 
Map is far too open, the layout favors scouts and snipers, but doesn't make it fun for them either.

Snipers are powerful only becuase the fog and openness makes any attack angle viable and gives them cover. So either they'll get couter sniped, or it's just shooting fish in a barrel.

Scouts are powerful because all the open area makes it difficult to hit them. But they aren't even going to have fun, as there aren't enough areas of height to jump along or otherwise get advantage.

Most of the other classes are screwed without the choke points, high ground, and tight areas to either fight through or defend.

In my opinion, what needs to be done is to tone down the fog and darkblue light. It is far too hard to see enemies at a distance and tell what team they are. The blue light also gives too much advantage to the BLU team. I'd use a brighter light blue color to still give the 'night time' feel without being overbearing. Fog needs to be thinned quite a bit overall. 
I agree with Scampie on pretty much everything he said. Trinka needs to be quiet while the grownups are talking. And it's good to see people branching out to other games. 
People should use there own nicks and not other�s people nicks...

i dont give a shit about nothing...

wrath i didn�t wrote that...

so peace!

for who is trying to use my nick, get a life... 
Yeah I agree with Scampbell on a bunch of things too. It's very useful feedback.

Scampbell: What exactly do you mean in the first screen shot about moving the spawn up to the doors?

Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. 
I mean cut the room circled, and put the spawn there. The existing doorways from the room cut into the rest of the map and now the exits from the spawn. 
I actually like the circled room, so I might just cut out the regular spawn room and move all the teamspawn there instead. 
Re #4954 
Megaman just linked to that thing i had in mind: 
Anybody working on anything cool? Screen shots, plz! 
A TF2 Map 
I'm working on it. 
BTW, finished your map. Not sure what it's about. I'm in #tf today if you want to stop by. 
I reached three days full vising.

73.80% Elapsed 23h30m, Left 24h16m Total47h46m, 49%.

Nothing happened last two days.

The map plays well, and I'm just below the max clip and vertices.
Only on fast vis, or I'll wait for years. 

I think I see the source of your trouble. Tell me those railings are a func_wall? 
Railings and lamposts are mdl files I added with wazat voident code. 
Then what's taking days upon days of VIS time? Is your computer older maybe? Nothing else in those shots looks particularly VIS unfriendly... 
The map is rather big (8Mb) and fast vis takes no time.
R_speeds are extremely high.
I used no func walls, and hardly vis blokkers. 
Good To See Some Screenies! 
hey madfox nice theme and you've got some nice construction here but the texturing could use a lot of work. if you can't get those big bricks ending in the right place, then i'd use much smaller bricks so you don't notice when they get cut in half. in acrus10.jpg for instance, almost every brick gets cut in half at the edge, which ends up looking sloppy. also things like underneath archways and ceilings don't need to be the same brick texture. the railings i think wood look better in wood too. 
I crawled out of this map construction with my first suceedment of texture alignment. And as it was the first mistake I never saw in mapping
I experience it as a small improvement.

My first goal was to make the map excist without homs or max warnings.
Reason why I had to take advantage of the mdl files.
And as the texture count grows on 72 it still could have some more archivement.

I'm now on a P4 3Ghz and I never had a longer vising count than 8 houres. After boxing the map the vistime just raised dramatical.
And I can't delete that because the map immedeately starts leaking. 
Are you trying to beat the CDA fullvis runtime ? :P
Wide open area needs long time to compile, and regarding the shots, it looks awesome, plenty of details everywhere... You will certainely have to wait for almost the same time before seeing a 100% fullvised map...
Anyway, good luck, be patient, and we all hope to see the release soon..
Keep it up ! 
After boxing the map

are you saying you built a giant box around the entire map to get it to vis? because that would certainly explain why it's taking so long. 
fullvis runtime to beat is 1248 hours... As of today, CDA still wins :) 
Oh yeah, OK, if you can't get it to VIS without boxing that would explain your VIS times. Having the process all of the outside stuff that QBSP would normally cull away will double or triple your VIS times easily. 
I Reckon 
You need to find the leak, MF. Boxing stuff makes baby Jesus cry. 
Ijed Speaks The Truth 
Or Rather 
Ok, But 
'Boxing stuff nails baby Jesus to a wall' doesn't have the same ring to it. 
And on the road the map has crossed was a point where the box wasn't necessary to compile it, but then the max limit was reached and it had many hom's.

but that map ended on a burned out mobo, so make my cahsbox smile. 
Just Because... 
Fern Is Back !!! 
Hey ! Nice shot ! 
Fern Never Leaves... 
"He" is just slow and busy as hell. 
hey, you can take all the time you want as long as you're branching out! it's good to see you've still got your roots in the community! it wood be great if you posted more shots! 
Actually I Should've Posted This One Instead

kind of my take on the "r_speeds be damned" concept (though on a much more subdued scale) 
Abstract Level Preview

Something I'm working on involving custom textures and a sort of abstracted look for a level. This is the general look of the level. I'm keeping the more interesting things to myself for now. 
It Looks Like Piet Mondrian Started Mapping 
pretty cool idea Willem, although now I'm really wondering what the textured version will look like. 
That Reminds Me 
of this doom2 level i was doing a while ago, but never finsihed because i had no ideas. just made because i was bored :) 
Neat, I like that! Could be some cool possibilities there. 
Those shots remind of me of p0rtal :) 
I like the cel-shaded style Willem, reminds of Warsow a bit.

I actually like Fern's Mondrian 'suggestion', possibly add some random primary colour surfaces (ie, keep the majority as white squares with black outline, but replace a few of the white squares with red/blue/yellow/etc (still with black outlines ofc)) 
I'm reserving color for specific purposes. You'll see! It's all part of a plan... 
I was going to say, use color for a purpose, not to just to make the map more colorful. 
Add more rainbows. 
.. where are the sharks ? 
Where Are The Planes? 
How'd They Get The Planes Through That Tiny Door? 
I suppose the door for planes are in the back of the shot... though... 
Remarkable enough there were a lot of people complaining there were no planes in Doom's Hangar.
Now you're worried how to get them out!

I wonder if there's no func_train to make them fly and shoot them out of the air with a trigger_multiple spawning the pilot . 
shoots look cool

They used the secret where the wall lowers and opens to the courtyard with the slime pit/armour in the middle. 
"Charlie 9er, you are cleared for runway 2 over"

"Charlie 9er confirm, opening hangar doors now"

*dozens of attendants begin grunting against the walls until someone finds the trigger* 
Dooming Birds 
are go!

Now I'm obliged to get some doors in. 
awesome takeoff procedure 
Abstract Level 
Looks like my placeholder textures (though mine are coloured). I've been half tempted to actually do a map like that rather than adding "proper" textures, since it does look kinda cool (hey, it worked for Warsow anyway). 
Wasn't There 
A 'The Cube' theme being talked about a while back - lots of func_train rooms. Could fit the texture theme. 
still working on this melee mod. :P

so, just a little intro here:
max health = 500 now
regeneration: 100health + 200health over 12sec
invisibility: monsters can't attack you (for 10sec)
shift: teleport forwards (through monsters or telefragging them) 384 units
bind: make either a fiend or scragg your pet (they get stronger attacks, follow you and attack normal monsters)
damage you take is also split with the minion, although atm that's not very useful since they only attack monsters.

at this point, i have two choices:
1. combat based around hordes emphasizing positioning, crowd control, AoE and maneuvering
2. combat based around 1 or 2 monsters emphasizing debuffing, good footwork, cover and spell/energy conservation.

pets work for either large or small group combat. for example fiends hit multiple targets, scrags poison huge groups.

testing out horde combat atm, even without any AoE attacks. just lots of moving around, scrambling for cover as well as trying to stagger cooldown use so you always have a 'bailout' available.

the idea i'm going for is something like diablo where you're given a framework of spells/abilities and then thrown in a situation where you need to work out how best to use said spells/abilities. ie: this test map which is just about 15 shamblers and 20-30 hell knights in a small room with moderate cover. 
What song is that, I love it!
It's kinda hard to see what's going on but it sure looks fun. 
that's Beauty Never Fades, Junkie XL. it's the animatrix version.

and yeah, it's hard to see what's happening. i had to annotate when and what i was casting to help give some more indication on what's going on.

i'm still trying to see if i can balance it around running in normal maps, but it ends up being kind of boring only facing a couple of weak monsters at once.

i suppose i could make the player more fragile (and certainly the inability to pick up armour at all makes it more difficult) but the notion is that you are supposed to be playing a death king who was betrayed and stripped of most of his powers. 
Check It Out ! 
Looks Kind Of Mindless 
I don't doubt there's more finesse than it looks like there is, but if you can't see any it's usually not as deep as you think. 
there's room for more interesting abilities, i think.

the thing i'm finding when i test stuff is that if there are a lot of abilities, you usually don't have time to pick the best choice in a heated combat situation.

so it's finding abilities that would be useful in a wide range of situations, don't unbalance gameplay and are fun that's the hard part.

ie: you used to be able to slow monsters down to 30% of their movement speed. it was very useful, but ultimately very boring. you'd get a mass of slow moving monsters in the center of a room. i replaced it with the teleport which, while less useful, makes gameplay faster by giving you really good maneuverability.

but yes, if you would consider a game like diablo or hellgate mindless, than that's definately what this mod would be to you. :) but then, quake itself isn't far off from that either. 
Yes, It Is 
you don't just run up to stuff in quake and click it to death 
No, you stand back a ways and click it to death. 
oooauu baby 
No, you stand back a ways and click it to death.

hehe pretty much. :) i mean, sure you dodge shots and take cover in quake, but you do that in melee too, but aside from dodging shots, you're also juking back and forth to trigger melee attacks while avoiding the damage.
it's at least on par with quake in it's simplicity/complexity.
the big difference now is that item management is removed and placed in the player's hands.

i think what's maybe missing is more variety in the main attack-- the sword itself.

what i think i'll do is something like oblivion where the direction you move affects the type of swing you'll do.
back: normal damage + bleeding
forward: strong single attack (more damage if bleeding)
or there's the option of just making sword hits do different effects and you'd switch them like weapons in quake.

or something.

thanks for the feedback though, i appreciate it. :) very helpful while developing this on my own for so long. 
being at range means you have an order of magnitude
- more space in which to dodge projectiles and advancing monsters
- more targets to prioritize
- more attacks of your own to choose from

your video doesn't show you juking to trigger melee attacks, you just wade into two dozen hell knights and start clicking. Occasionally I see a label appear like "regeneration," and the combat doesn't appear to change at all.

movement based attacks would definitely help although there'd have to be reasons to use each one depending on the situation you're in. More than one melee weapon with some differentiation between them would be nice too (ala the warrior class in Hexen). 
Charged Attack? 
Holding down fire charges the sword, when released it does a single strike for more damage.

Thirdperson camera would be good as well to put the dodging back in - but the general reaction to thirdperson cameras in Quake is disgust.

Could work well with the teleport spell though. 
MMO-style combat mechanics generally need to be supported by a really good HUD/interface. Without the proper feedback as to what the heck's going on, it all tends to get a bit messy and confusing. Being in first-person might not be helping matters either, but what the hell, it sounds like an interesting experiment. 
your video doesn't show you juking to trigger melee attacks, you just wade into two dozen hell knights and start clicking.

if you're talking about the very beginning, i wade into the monsters because my original plan was to stick with the fiend pet. his melee attacks hit everyone in front of him, so i was going to make monsters swap between me and it but i ended up getting cut off from him and he drops like a rock. at that point, i knew i was in trouble, so i pop regeneration to mitigate some damage. now i'm fully trapped in a corner, surrounded by hknights so i teleport through them in order to get some space.

ijed: i tried it out with the built in fitzquake 3rd person cam. it's ok, but you loose some accuracy esp. w/regards to teleporting (at least for me). it's not something i'd want to enforce on the player.

kinn: yeah, not having the ability to display information is making me run up against a lot of walls.
cooldows are displayed in the ammo counters but that means i can only ever have 4 cooldowns (and the cells slot is used to display pet health %).

i might try to shift this over to doom3, but then that'd be even more work and d3 isn't as flexible as quake before you need to start compiling the sdk. 
saw this picture in #qdq anyone know when it will be finish? 
A month or two I think. 
But Ask Trinca 
near christmas T|M i wish... layout is almost finish necros,negke and ijed are helping me a lot, i will not rush this map like others... i wanted to make this a blast, i will try hard at least...

still have many stuff to fix, but i�m not withy any hurry... the best are helping me out and i dont want to desapoint then! 
this is a really great looking map, and i see you've put some good work into the lighting. shots 3 and 4 esp. look atmospheric.

great job so far :) 
Love It 
Yeah I am really looking forward to playing this one!

One thing I will say is that will the bright skybox in one of the pictures the level looks quite dark, maybe adjust the skylight parameters there? Otherwise...Kick arse. 
thks to you concerting in lights!!! you gave me 90% help on this issue. i read the Aguire manual just have some dificult on the softangle :\

Daz skybox is not decide iet :\ i must get a proper on...

thks for the motivacion! i will not quit this one and i will not rush it. 
That Looks Pretty Good 
not sure if you can break up the texturing a bit, that would be the only thing I can think of from those shots. 
If It Was Me... 
i'd try using more grassy ground in the exteriors (so it's green and brown instead of just brown.) 
Green And Brown 
I did a remix of two of the original Quake ground textures recently, blending together green vines and leaves and a muddy background.

If it suits your needs, here it is, already palettized: 
You Put A Bmp On The Internet 
that is so 2008 
Looks good, Trinca! I love the old temple and dirt style. 
nooo, the browniness of it all is what makes it stand out for me in the first place ^^ 
DaZ (beta)? 
thks Willem, necros in lights and negke in brushwork are helping me a lot :) i hope the final work will please you all. 
Now go finish this Maya map: I want to play it !!!! 
Looking Good, Trinca! 
I am really looking forward to this release. Just don't let Negke convince you that you need a Puzzles or Traps section :p 
Looks Good! 
nice curves and lightened. 
I don't see the association between me and this site, maybe its cos im topped off with vodka right now? 
bmp gone web2.0 ... 
Ahh, Yes 
maybe make the floors less even somehow?

love the curves... 
Yet Another (not The Same Map) 
That Looks Very Cool! 
I like the way you have mixed up the themes a bit, it makes it look very ineresting. 
looks great!!!

next time take the shoot much brighter please :) 
one for stress :\

negke cutesy for this one ;)

he made a good option in this one!!! 
+1 TrincA 
Nice dude, looking forward to it. 
Like everything in life motivacion is our best friend!!!

thks Shambler for support ;) 
shops sorry :\ shambler and all :) 
Now it is time to release it: go finish your map !! 
will take much more time JPL ;)

be pacient!!! 
More Time 
on the melting iceberg 
I Need Your Help! 
here's the second beta release of my rgb deathmatch map pack. neg!ke and i have been testing these maps for years - now it's your turn =)

i'm looking forward to your feedback.

Better Late Than Never, Eh? 
Better Response... 
In the "green" map there were a few times when I tried to get the megahealth and got stuck in the corner - literally suck, unable to move, in slime.

Other than that I think they were okay. :) 
cool efdat. you should join the 3 together into a big single player level. might need a setpiece or 2 though. i like green the best. 
green rockz 
While they don't have yaw dropping in your face visuals they do radiate that special quake sex appeal in larger doses than I've seen in a long time. The only reservation I have is the mushrooms in blue, while I normally appreciate the nice forms of shrooms they do come off as too blocky and stiff to be organic and doesn't fit very well in this context.

All in all I'm very impressed just be looking at them and hope I'll get around to playing them. 
Shots Of My Current Map 
Here are 2 shots of my current project...

Feel free to comment ;) 
looks nice, but arent the ligts to flat? :) 
Wow, That Looks Nice 
Looks good!

What's that texture set? 
A mix in between Doom3 and Half Life texture set.. I suppose I'm mapping for the wrong game :P 
Don't Think So 
There's still, ten years on, a wealth of unexplored possibilities for this game. 
.. I hope this map will please most of you.. even the Quake purists ;) 
Looks good so far. However there are a few tweaks you should definitely consider:

1) The height of the encircling wall is too uniform, especially if the player can almost see over it. Bring the vertical intersecting bulkheads up further, or add some angles, anything to reduce the obviousness of the straight line running all the way around the top of the wall.

2) It looks like you've used a high minlight value. Please don't do this; it looks very washed out and bland. There are effectively only two light values in the outside area that we see: the sunlight, and the minlight.

The central column/tower in both screenshots looks very cool, I think. I can barely see it. Add some spotlights so we can see the curvy detail.

3) That's the marcher fortress skybox you're using, yes? To my eyes it doesn't fit the textural theme you've selected. You have muted blue and tan rust, which I like btw, but then this intense bright orange sunset on rocks sky. Especially in fd16.jpg, it just looks wrong. Actually, you might consider some colored lighting, if you matched the sunlight color to the skybox color, the problem would be gone. The textures would look more interesting and varied with subtly colored point lights too. 
Some infos about your comments:

1/ The player will not be able to reach this point without "noclipping": I did fly to take these 2 shots, so the flatness of the top of the encircling walls is not visible as the shots show it... But I will take this point into account... and see if I can do something there...

2/ Minlight value is 25, and sunlight is 130.. It is enough to avoid completely pitched black area... and I think I will add mor lights on the bridges betwen the latform and the central tower... it will help to add more contrast here and there in this area

3/ I used this skybox (i.e Kell's dragonheart) because of the start area... it fits well there with the rock textures I used... You'll see that in time ;)

Thanks a lot everybody for the feedback ;) 
That's Some Prompt Refeedback 
It looks from the shots that the helipad platform with ammo and a crate on it is about the same height as the encircling wall. I suppose this could be a perspective illusion though. 
Are you using airoplanes or is it just a wild geek of me?

map looks really good. 
To Be Honest, 
I'm getting better results with maps like the Zer_turtle where there is no sky lighting, than earlier maps I made that used it. No matter the settings, sky lighting tends to over blend to the detriment of obtaining nice contrast in the shading colors that make up a good looking scene. 
Minlight 25 is very high. You might want to try sunlight3 instead (set it to 70 maybe) and light all interiors with sourced and unsourced point lights. Black shadows aren't a bad thing unless they look out of place for some reason. 
And That Lava Texture Still Looks Ugly 
At least increase the scale or something. 
MadFox: There are no airplane in this map... OTOH I will be happy to find an Helicopter prefab and put it onto the platform ;)

HT: Regarding the sun position i the skybox, it is obvious that is i the evening, when the sky goes down. Furthermore, the orange color of the skybox doesn't give the impression of a high luminosity of the sun... hence the value I used... Anyway, I think the shot rendering is not as good as what the map looks like ingame...

negke: Actually the minlight is 20, and the sunlight is 120. I also don't like areas that are competely pitched black, and where you see nothing. Unfortunately there are some in the map, and I would not like to have these... If I need an area with no light (and there are some), I simply use anti-light ;)
Concerning the lava, I agree with you: I will increase its scale :)

Thanks for the feedback 
I like that style of lighting. There is a difference if you use minlight because you're lazy, or if you're actually going for that look where the colors seem to blend into one another. It can look very dim, forlorn, and even unreal in a good way. Sunlight3 with lots of sky windows looks better and more natural than lighting the same area with torches or even invisible point lights (meh). I've had enough of torches. I still use them of course, but only in places where they would naturally belong.

I agree there could be some brighter light sources on the walkways/platform though. Streetlights or spotlights. Around the lava, too. Like on an oil rig - lots of small bright lights.

The handrail could be even thinner.

Minlight/antilight is not that different from sunlight3, it's just the other way around ;-)

I'd say you've achieved the effect you were going for JPL. 
JPL i quit minlight!!! negke made me quit!!!

he is worse then my wife ;) hehehe but he is right like my wife :\ is negke a shemale=? :)

fuck sundaysssssss... i�m drunk !!!! :)

negke u�re my favorit mapper i love YOU in Quake matters!!! 
I stopped using minlight too. Lunaran bitched at me so much that I tried it with no minlight. And I think it is good to have completely dark areas. However if you do want to light a completely dark area just a tiny bit then put a light like:

"classname" "light"
"light" "50"
"wait" "0.2"

I'm doing this in my current map with a slightly blue colour. It acts like reflected light from the sky. ;) 
Site has a lot of prefabs! They are qle formatted, but I found the Doombird there.
The whole site is free to download ans there are really a lot of prefabs. 
Link Please !!! 
you can have completely dark with antilights, too. It's just a different method.

Sunlight3 also gives you completely dark areas, just not where you have sky. That's actually pretty realistic.Go to a forest during daytime in the fall or winter, you won't see many shadows despite the fact that most of the light comes from above :) You start seeing shadows only when the sun goes down, and the "minlight" fades away.

BTW. even during the night, it's not completely dark, as long as the room has a window. Completely dark is only a cellar or similar, if there's absolutely no opening to the outside. A bunker for example, or a cave.

Nature doesn't hate minlight. Quite the opposite. 
It depends how fast our eyes accomodate with the darkness ;) and I mostky agree with you :D 
I experienced that once. We were visiting a cave tour one time and they took you deep into it and turned off the lights. There was no bounce light from anywhere and complete and utter darkness descended. It's eerie. Your eyes feel very strange trying to deal with no light whatsoever. 
Darkness Accomodation... 
... according to my experience (and what I experimented during night rally in the army), generally, an eye passing from light to darkness (by night) needs at least around 15mn to accomodate... 
(me pictures Willem on infra-red in a cave, blinking and looking worried cause he cant see at all...) 
I don't think the problem is so much that minlight is unrealistic, because like people say, in reality light bouncing off walls means nowhere ends up entirely black. I think it's more than not using minlight forces you to think about how you're lighting every part of your map, so you're always trying to create some variation in it. Even if it is just creating low wait lights to fill the space, the slowly changing lightmap helps to break up the repetition of the textures. 
That's true, good point. 
There are several links to Qoole, I prefer 2.31
Not long ago one could download all prefabs, in fact the whole qoole cd. But the link has gone. So I sended you some to your mailbox. 
OK, thank you very much ;) 
Minlight can be set so that you don't have to think about the dark corners, which allows you to ignore decent falloff and placement.

Generally now I use 5-10 minlight. 
Play Fear PM 
To see how minlight should NOT be used 
More Cubism 
Nice Title 
Looks fucking rad!
I'm assuming it's going to be released when we're all rotting in our graves? Thats when my 9 map remake of Insomnia will be released. 
~looks very Quakey... now go finish it!!!

and i go work on mine to :\

that i will not finish for christmas for sure:( 
There's a little story behind this one that almost guarantees it will be released. Eventually anyway. 
Heh, a Doom platformer in the works:

Now, some news on ArcadeQuake please. 
looks great :) 
Still waiting for The Shores of Zdoom 
Arena_Mudfarm V3

Link to Arena_Mudfarm v3. Only blue side has any major detailing/gameplay changes to it. Going to try to get that look right before moving on to the Red side. Any/all feedback welcome here, but preferably in the thread: 
cool news at least for me!!! finish tchak today :p

ok ok, i forced a litle... becouse i�m almost above of marksurfaces(32138) and will need the few that rest for fixes!!!

will start beta friday ;)

maby this could come out before christmas...

my boss last week and in this one has been out
in formacions... :)

= lots of free time to map with no bosses in my legs pissing me up... 
to turn this one as it had me flat. 
Niet Gevonden 
Not a map beta but a beta for a replacement for shub-hub. I talked it over with Spirit and I think I got this about as close as I can to how shub worked.

Let me know what you think! Same password as shub... 
yet found 
Thats excellent news!!! You know I'll totally abuse it with screenshots, demos and maps, right?
Although I never posted any betas on the hub, AFAIK, so you wont have to worry about that kind of crap. Ive never had a beta which I wanted publicly available... 
But Seriously Thank You Very Much Indeed! 
thks Willem and Spirit 
"You know I'll totally abuse it with screenshots, demos and maps, right? "

Please do. :) I want to see if this thing actually works... 
I've Got A Couple Of Early Shots To Post 
but I cant log in.
ilovetheshubhub ilovequaketastic nope no nope not that eh. ;P 
please will we keep the 404 screen? Have you seen it? It er, ... I love that screen... 
Hahaha, god I suck. OK, password fixed. Really, it's the same as shub-hub, I swear! Sorry... 
Stylin'! Nice shots too - love the bridge! 
I sent you a mail ~12 hours ago, did you get it (got some weird relay errors when trying earlier, that's why I ask). 
Yep, I got it. Will reply... 
Very Nice 
but I must say, is that the q2 rock texture? Its horrible :(

If you can find the texture wad that is floating around from the game "Rune" it has some great rock textures in it, I've been using them exclusively in my maps for a long time. 
will check it out... ;P

Willem: Thanks :-) 
Great Ricki 
show r_showtris 1 fitz shot from that rocky area!
Reminds me of your earlier stuff and terra's first maps too, which means it's great... 
I Like That Rock Texture 
I guess it could use some scaling it up or whatever, but I think it looks fine. 
More Monsters... 
arghhhh i always hated this one in doom :\ 
That Idle Sound 
that they make used to really piss me off/freak me out 
I can hardly relate them to any sound, that's a small problem to me.
Sofar I can make them visible in Quake, but Doom has that 16bit texture that's horrible to substitute in Wally.

Further I get the nasty habbit, that when I export them to a modelling studio they immedeately start with vertices mixedup.
So I have to counterpart all loosing frames.
Most important is getting a good base/tex frame. 
So who is working on stuff? I'm doing a medieval map at the moment that's already running me over an hour in VIS time - not sure why, but it is. I don't intend for it to be massive though.

Anyone else? 
On playing with textures for a project I'll be starting based off whether I can get the textures to feel/look how I want them to. 
release soon... :\ i realy want to start a fresh no stuff 
just my tower map atm. i seem to be stuck though. :P 
Working On Something 
until I start to hate it all over again, and then I'll go back to the thing I haven't put up in the editor in over a year and if it looks slightly less repulsive than I remember, I might get that one to Alpha. 
I'm working on the doom monsters for quake, but it's hard to substitute their sprite attacks. Quake won't give me more than one frame mdl seq. 
Long time finishing, but what's already been completed is a great incentive. 
How much is finished so far, ijed? 
~9 maps in beta.

We're basing all the code off the gameplay needed in the maps, meaning as the maps get closer to completion more entities will probably be introduced.

The basic stuff like old, known bugs and a completely reworked multiplayer system is close to finished.

New enemy list:

Berserk Ogre
Nail Ogre
Lavaman (subject to change)

New Behaviours:
Spawning (Quoth style)
Dodging (mild)
Flagged 'Wargear' (some monsters can carry extra stuff)
General AI improvements
Monster grouping

And lots of stuff in the works. 
Lavaman (subject to change)

Is that, like, the miniature Chthon? I didn't like those a single bit. 
That's why we're thinking to change them - a scaled down chthon doesn't add much. 
I was melting some archville mdl.
What a creep that qmle and verticecounts. 
Not going to blast the player in place?

Like the walk animation. 
He Crawls So Hard I Couldn't Make A Demo Before He Grabbed Me 
It's a tryout for seeing how far I could imitate its original sprite.
For testing the walk scene I just put notarget. 
That looks great. What a creepy bastard! Textures/Skins are always the "yay or nay" parts, it definitely is on a good way. 
The Zdoomgl Models 
The ZdoomGl monsters have their sprites in mdl.
I was trying to combine them in Qmle, but it�s a hazerdly job.
Qmle is extremely worried about the same verticecounts, even when they are the same.

My goal is to give them the same look as in Doom, but mdl will never substitute a sprite.
And yes, texturing is almost as far from mapping as modelling is to texturing. 
just started mapping again for the first time in AGES and managed to get a nearly finished base map to very nearly complete. I imagine there will be a beta ready soon. Anyone interested in testing? It's my v.late basepak map ;) < old pics here

On another note, I looked at another big nearly finished map I have and had loads of ideas for fixing it, so maybe I will finally get that out early next year too :) 
ye, keep then coming!!! 
Been looking forward to this one for a while. What's the status on APSP3 btw? 
Yeah Yeah. 
than you are a inspiracion to all the mappers...

when i growup i want to map like you!!! 
That's "If" You Grow Up Trinca 
get a move on!!!

Than: I would really love to test your maps should you so wish sir, it would be an honour!

I will test base maps. E-mail address is listed in my profle here. 
Combat Layer looks very interesting. Is it based on Quake? Any (working) link to it? :) 
Everything's looking good there, APSP3 especially. 
Boner Shorts. 
Thanks + Info 
ok, I will send out the first beta to everyone who said they will test once it's ready. I'm just doing gameplay stuff and tweaks at the moment, so it should be sometime this weekend or next week. What I might do, however, is select a couple of people for the first beta and then once feedback from that is taken into account the subsequent beta will be sent to fresh testers too. Oh, and since it's way too late to be in the basepak, it will become APSP2.

APSP3 will probably be early next year. However, lot of it needs overhauling so it might take longer than expected.

Cocot: combat layer is a crappy game I made at university. It doesn't use the Quake engine - just a really basic engine I made myself. However, it does use a .map compiler to generate its level format, though it's not exactly intuitive once you've made the basic level, since you need to add collision detection data in a text editor then compile that with the .map to get the proper level data. Doesn't have sound either.

I guess there is no working link at the moment :) 
Oh, ok, I see :)
It looked good from the screenshots ;) 
Cold Times 
thought pain would be harder to convert than cacodemon, but it went otherwise.
the blobby thing just crashes verticemeshes. 
Might Just Be Me 
But they look a bit washed out, skin-wise.

Maybe up the contrast and darken (burn) a bit? 
I think Ijed is right - just a "little bit" darker.

Also - totally ace! Really cool. Keep it coming.

Will we be able to map for it eventually? 
Pain Elemental And Cacodemon 
i dunno if anyone mentioned this, but the death animations for all those converted doom/doom2 models have more faces/verts. it was so they could reproduce the death animations on the sprites which often had stuff like an arm ripping off or an eyeball leaking out (like the cacodemon) or like the mancubus where it just collapses and the rib cage sticks out.

come to think of it, i miss the old days where the death animations were very elaborate. i think we've lost something in this age of ragdolls where they just pop the limbs a bit to give a little bit of initial movement. 
Chainsaw someone in Gears of War. :P

I do agree though. The move towards realism has sacrificed the arty deaths that we used to see. I know that we were going to experiment with half animated/half rag doll deaths at some point. Haven't had a chance yet though... 
you should make sure the outer perimeter of your sprite is all transparent pixels, otherwise you get those floating lines and pixels you can see on the top of the flame and to the left of the barrel.

(also, in fitzquake you won't see the pink edges, but you'll still see the floating lines/pixels) 
I Like STALKER Deaths 
They rock!:) 
Doom Models 
ijed - you're right. At this moment I'm only trying to import the ZdoomGL models into Qmle, and so to Quake.
And as they don't understand a word quakes I have to make them understand that dooms isn't the legal arbitary...

No...kiddin, but it takes quiet some time to make them look right with all subroutines that I don't have had time to make the texture part.

I will try to convert the whole pack to Quake so they can be integrated just as the quake monsters. Point is I have to make decissions.
Doom models are, like necros said, split up in different framemodels fore the same monster.
So for the cacodemon and pain I have to relate to the explode scenes like hellspawn.

Fact is that they need some original subroutines what offers a lot of coding, like adding sprites to their acts. And something to make them divide to the costum monsters.

I tried to make a monster explode by tossing its fragments out of eachother, but experienced qmle always errors on not the same vertricecounts, even if they do.

metlslime- I haven't centered the sprite in fimg. In fact it's already a miricle to have a prog that handles these extentions.

A very strange feeling to see that doomguy in Quake. 
Fixing Graphics... 
Looks Good Hipshot 
Lighting is a touch yellowy, though: how about a bit of blue fill from the sky to offset the yellow sun? 

Fantastic ambiance there. The light pouring in and the overbearing structure built into the rock is a great looking setting.

If this is Quake3, is it possible to get some god/light beams coming in from the cliff edges? Would look amazing! Might be too much work in Quake3 though. 
Second That 
very badass. can't think of anything to add atm, everything looks pretty solid. all the little plants and shrubs help push the terrain into looking very alive. 
Lighting is a touch yellowy, though: how about a bit of blue fill from the sky to offset the yellow sun?

Disagree on this, the sky is yellow, so the ambient light from the sky would be yellow too.

Also, nice shots. 
"Disagree on this, the sky is yellow, so the ambient light from the sky would be yellow too."

Yeah, but then most of the scene is yellow. 
Well, the light is actually a bit more blue in the shadows, than orange. I had a version where the light was actually a lot more blue in the shadows, so it really stood out - looked pretty good. However, I wanted the art direction to be inspired by Quake(1), Quake2 and Unreal(1), so I decided to go with this instead.

About sun rays, I might do it - or not - depends on how good I can simulate the effect. I'm fairly sure I can make it look alright but not sure it will fit in the scene, with the clouds... 
Maybe I Finish Something During Winter Break 
I Refuse To Look At Anything That Isn't Zipped BMP 
(ok, too late. maybe next time, map seems cool, reminiscent of your speedmap, probably da r_speeds though) 
Another Beautiful Day 
...of combine oppression

Been working on this little map pack for a few weeks now, it will require episode 2 to run! 
When I think of combine oppression, I think of lens flare. 
Bit Obscured By The Flare 
but looks like an outstanding place to blow some shit up. 
not enough bloom. 
Looks Good! 
New Duke Nukem 4 Eva Shizzle

Alternative title: Rejected Gears of War Enemy Designs 
Mine Was Better 
Yeah I haven't been impressed with any/all Duke Forever stuff that's been released 'recently' (ie, in the last 2 years.)

I smell flop. 
...especially the part where because 3DRealms don't allow hotlinking, I had to copy and paste the url :P 
Well I Still Think It Looks Cool... 
...I guess some of you old-skool quakers are a little bit biast. Which I can kinda understand, after the whole "Quake vs. Duke3D" media circus. Its like Blur v Oasis...

Fashion victims, sheep, trend-followers.....

They just never finish anything. 
Back then Quake was the dark brown ugly duckling and Duke the colourful pop chewing gum glee. It's weird to see such a dark and colourless picture. Made me realised how I much rather like comical games instead of that "next-gen realism". 
I Think That Its Gonna Be Good 
but we'll find out quite soon I predict.... 
I don't think they're ever going to release it at this point, honestly. They can't. It'll be insta-shredded the second it hits the reviewers hands as people have been waiting for over a decade in a Daikatana-esque fever waiting to tear it a new one.

It would have to be so over the top awesome to overcome all of that negative inertia that I just don't think it's possible. For any company, I mean, not just 3D Realms. You just can't successfully deliver on 11 years of promises.

It's gone from eagerly anticipated to vapor ware jokes to tired joke and soon to move on to obscure fact featured in a future edition of Trivial Pursuit. It's dead, Jim. 
Or an alternate theory I have is that it will come out, people will shrug, and it'll slide into the history books as a foot note.

I really don't see it lighting up the gaming world at this point. 
Like Chinese Democracy 
(the GnR album, not the actual thing, that is) 
Yes, exactly like that, actually. It's here and nobody cares. 
Thats Guns N Roses BTW 
for those who instantly thought Galaxy News Radio.

Incidentally yesterday I found the Wazer Wifle, which I didnt realise was a real gun even though I had read about it on Fo3 forums, I just thought people were being silly....
Bethesda are geniouses IMHO! 
if its as good as prey then I will be very happy :) 
I don't think expectations are all THAT high. 11 years of promises, maybe, but were we really listening? The fact that they've taken this long makes me think they don't really know what they're doing, and if the game isn't a bit of a mess, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

So I think I disagree with theory #1 and agree with proposed alternate theory : the damp squib. It's not going to set the world on fire and do body shots of success off the cleavage of games reviewers worldwide, it's probably going to have to sleep with PC Gamer's ugly sister to break 80%.

Hope they prove me wrong though... 
I think we'll see it released, maybe late 2009 or 2010 I hope, and indeed it won't light the world on fire. What I think is that the original game on Unreal engine, which was probably 95% done, they should have fkn released back 2002 or 2003, and then started a sequel, which is where they would be now anyway. Instead they scrapped basically everything. George Broussard is an idiot who appears to want perfection for the game and won't release otherwise. But he won't get it, he's already using an outdated engine. I would be surprised if they switched to a more modern Unreal engine again.

It's not a good sign when in 2008 they're advertising for mappers and programmers to work on the game. Who knows... maybe the reason for it never being finished is because they have no money. 
I think the opposite, actually. I think the reason it isn't being released is because they HAVE money. They sold the Max Payne IP and a few other things so they are flush with cash for years to come. Scott and George are already rich from years past so there's no pressure to release the game. This allows them to tinker endlessly, throw stuff away and start over, etc. All of those things are good to a point - but without pressure to ship you can slip into a state where you are perpetually building and never finishing. It's dangerous and I think that's where they are stuck at the moment. Not sure how to knock them out of that groove and get them back on the shipping path though... 
back on the shipping path

lane surely? 
Merry Christmas 
...and I found this little gem in the svencoop 4.0 for half-life. 
the flying HL monster actually doesn't look all that out of place in there. 
is sven coop still the abomination that took existing levels and made them into stinking piles of shit it was for hl1? Looks like it still is ;) 
New Level That Might See The Light Of Day Eventually... 
very clean and ordered 
Thank God 
Not a base map! 
Or IS it?! 
You PRODUCTIVE Bastard! 
nice work! :P 
Don't See 
That pale wood set much - looks good. 
Yeah Nice, 
Good shots.

One thing though, the texture under the curved arch doesn't match up with the bricks surrounding it - a pet peeve. 
yeah looks nice. maybe a diff texture under those arches or doorways? archway on the right of the second shot is a bit plain... maybe add some decals/lights, or give the step that metal trim. then again, i'm a bit of a detailist. 
It's still early stuff, but thanks for the feedback! I was considering doing something custom inside of the arches. Your feedback kinda confirms what I was thinking in the back of my mind ... thanks! 
Its coming along slowly but surely, working on 3 maps at once at the moment to keep things fresh! They will eventually all be tied together into a little episode 
3rd Shot Is Kinda Bland... 
but overall looks fucking nice Daz! 
Q3 CPM Map 'in Da Works' 
Screenshot :

The website page has been updated with new screenshots and a list of changes since last alpha. If you have any spare time, please drop by #CPMPICKUP channel and give the map a test drive! All feedback welcome.

Top down map layouts, screenshots and download link are available here: 
2nd shot looks ace, rest a little uninspired IMHO. 
Erm. (re: Daz + Comments) 
I look forward to playing this but personally the second shot is the weakest for me. It may be quite pretty in a conventional HL2 sort of way, but it sort of implies that there might be a lot of 'walk round corner and be impressed by sunlit vista' moments that got quite boring in HL2. Personally I love the idea of veteran Q1 mappers applying their legendary instinct for ferocious combat to games that are more commonly known for eyecandy and scripted setpieces. 
I love the first shot. I think a map that was based entirely around that "abandoned" theme would be awesome. A primarily exploration based level - combat could be worked into it but if the main basis was great looking areas in an abandoned factory or something it would be memorable. 
Vistas Vs Gameplay 
Its funny you should bring that up fish as I was thinking the same thing about that beach area, originally it was just a nice set piece to start the whole episode off with, the player simply awoke on the beach and had to make his way around some rocks to the houses at the other side.

Eventually I decided that was quite a weak intro so now currently there are pools of water filled with leeches that the player has to avoid by finding ways around them and various little puzzle "alleys" contained in the rocks with sentry guns and mines and all sorts of other defences before you make it to the buildings. I also had to cut down on the amount of water in the scene as it was starting to bring my graphics card to its knees in some areas, eventually I found a nice compromise by using slightly less water and using a slightly less complex water shader for the scene which seems to have done the trick for now.

I had no issues with the vistas in HL2 though, and its certainly great fun to create some of my own in a game I enjoy just as much as Quake! 
"and its certainly great fun to create some of my own in a game I enjoy just as much as Quake!"

Ultimately, that's what's important. If you're having fun, forget the haters. :P 
Willem you are spot on with your comment on shot #1, thats exactly the type of level I'm aiming for with that section, I've been tracking down just about every urban exploration site I can get my hands on for reference material!

Loving those shots you posted also, like others have said you don't see those textures very often in a Quake map and I'm liking the clean lines going on there too. Looking forward to it! 
Texture set is temporary!? That looks fucking great IMO. Stylized and clean. 
The texture set feel temporary to me. The crowd of players the map is aimed at sort of dictates what I can use, mainly bright textures with well defined edges and no clutter. Originally the map was all gothic and moody, but no one could see anything! :D 
i feel the exact opposite actually. the darker maps like hub, pdm6 and ztn feel much nicer in low settings than the brighter maps like pt4. Bright textures are a no go with mapoverbrightbits.

It's important that your GEOMETRY doesn't clutter though. 
that's totally awesome. Did you model her yourself? 
yeah, i watched wall-e for the first time a couple of days ago.

it's one of the more nonsensical things i've done, but damnit, that movie was pretty good. :) 
...I would. 
Hah! That looks cool as hell. Nice work! 
small movie of my QuakeDoom map on modB. 
Cool video but, man, learn to aim. :) 
Madfox Its Excellent! 
You really captured the feel of the doom monsters.

It would be very cool if you could do the music and the sound effects for the guns too.

Maybe some ambient sounds? 
The divx codec made playing a hell because the framerate doubled while recording. I played it on double speed.
So I can imagine it looks cramped.

I'm trying to find the sounds but doom exports things rather snappy.
Sofar I'm glad I have all monsters walking and attacking. Only the texturing is so hard.

Like the DoomGuy, I really would like to see it crouching in qc. 
Maybe the textures are temporary but judging from how it looks now I'd suggest not having that marbly/noisy look in all the textures. 
Anyone Else Wanna Test A Map? 
Doing a full vis now, so you can use whatever engine you prefer (hopefully) 
I'll test it, email address is on profile...

Probably on the lower difficulty settings tho ;p 
I'll Test It Too 
If you want one more tester. :) (email address in profile as well) 
It seems like you've still got Quake shotguns - there's a few weapon patches that change them to their doom versions - just for damage / spread / fire rate.

Everyone is so used to the Quake shotguns that they don't realise how crap they are.

Looking good, by the way. 
Vis took 8 and a half hours, but light is finishing now, and I have to go to work already.

Will send the beta in a couple of hours, when I get a break.... :) 
Not Quake, But Whatever...

really trying to finish it this time. :x that's lunaran's strombine textures btw. 
So What Are You Gonna Have 
running around down there?

Looks very Half-Lifey, prob the textures help..... 

Very cool scene. One of the things that I remember reading awhile back was something from Levelord on level design. He said that one of the things that helps a level really feel 3D in nature is to have long vistas with tall structures in the visual path to provide visual parallax.

You have that there with that column and the curved half of the hallway chunk attached to it. As you come down that hall, that piece of geometry will partially obscure what is behind it and give that parallax effect.

Looks cool! 
They're not actually that crap... 
Is It F.E.A.R? 
Does anybody use the SG once they have the SSG, apart from sniping monsters from miles away - which doesn't make much sense and isn't very fun.

They made the SG a pistol type weapon, which meant the SSG became the real shotgun.

Just me 2 cents. 
looks like q3 to me. where do the monsters go necros? :( nice lighting though, very doom3-esque. 
Thanks Guys :) 
that shot is early in the level (about a minute in or so). this is actually a "spiritual successor" to the venice HL2 map i tried doing before. doom3 meant a change in setting, but the original concept of a very lonely atmosphere is what this is going to be.

there is fps gameplay planned though, but i'm hoping to keep the player moving along without combat for at least a few minutes with puzzles and cool looking areas as rewards. i plan this to be a mod, with my doom3 'tweaks' included so it'll feel pretty much like quake, most likely, just with doom3 monsters.

anyway, that shot was mostly me breathing a sigh of relief as i was able to use 3ds max to model that area. i have some way cooler areas in progress. :) 
Screenshots &

Well my modelling skills are driven to their aces, but sofar I got the ZDoomGl models. And as always at the last moment one of the monsters doesn't behave as in my testmaps, lostsoul has gone lost bouncing.

It's more a pak to show my results than a real attemmpt for a level. I hope to come to a good confinement of how to handle these monsters.
Textutres look awfull in FirtzQuake. Aguire's engine is better. Glad to have them running!

Spy, Grahf 
check your mail! ;) 
I Got It Ricky 
OK Here's Some Shots 
Meanwhile, Back In The Quake Engine... 
...and in a world where finding and using freeware image manipulation progams isn't rocket science...

Errrr yeah, looks pretty good, looks meaty. 
Thnx ; 
Fatty Ass Lights 
The light podiums sticking out of the floor look a bit fat imo, they need a diet of approximately 16 units!

Very nice overall, lighting is a bit flat in some areas for my taste though. What does the map look like in standard gl / fitz? :D 
OK - Heres One For Shambler

Daz - 32x32 base is pretty fat I know, but Im on a strict diet of marksurfaces here and I dont think I can afford it....

you can jump on top of them all though :D 
Looks Nice 
my only complaint is that the 64x32 metal block texture is overused and boring.

also, i don't know if this is intentional or not, but all that bloom makes the map look very damp/humid and sweltering.

on a tangent, it would be nice to see games use bloom for specific effects instead of just globally applying it to the entire game. a level taking place in a sunny but hot swamp would make good use of bloom. 
That one for me is pretty cool! 
Now THAT Is My Taste Of Base Map 
Not boring at all Ricky! Change nothing! (OK, rotate the crates in that one screenshot).


... What mod? 
I See 
didn't look at the monsters because I was so absorbed by everything else. 
Bloom Effect 
I'm just messin' hehe!

Thats Rygels 2.7Mb pack there as well guys. I cant put realtime lights on though. It kills the framerate completely. And I have to type some weird crap in because Darkplaces lights appear extremely bright in realtime mode with my method of lighting.

And I get about 8 fps.

But hey - I normally use FitzQuake 0.80 especially to play with. And I have textured the map using a lot of standard Quake textures, but there are plenty of non-standard ones too so as you can see from the shots it looks weird like that anyway because of the contrast between the really low-rez ones and the eXtremely high-rez ones.

Anyway it runs in Winquake, Darkplaces, Fitz, GlQuake, Tomaz, QMB, Joequake, Qrack, etc etc etc...

Thanks for the tips. 
Is a problem. If you apply it on a per-shader basis then it looks great, but immolates the graphics card.

Applying it over the entire game, that is, directly from the back buffer is MUCH cheaper, which is why lots of modern games have that sweaty look.

They want bloom but don't want make the graphic concessions necessary to have it, so instead they have to plaster it all over. 
I agree with what necros said, that texture patterns rather ugly. Also there are very dominant (and ugly) rivets everywhere (that might be less flamboyant with the original textures though).
The rest looks very promising! 
It's Still Coming, Honest! 
Why "yournotfoolinganyone.jpg"? 
looks pretty substantial!

any chance of an in-game shot or two? 
No one cares any more. Just convert it for DNF when that comes out. 
that's a lot of brushwork! :)

i second the request for a proper shot btw. :P 
Looks ... massive! Yeah, some in-level shots would be cool. 
I Have Dozens Of Shots 
Yeah Boi!!! 
that looks very professional to me!! :)

Nice lighting, brushword etc, er - I never tried mapping for Doom 3 yet, so I can give any other real input except for I hope the gameplay is as good as the visuals! 
Uh ... over 35,000 brushes?! Holy crap, I admire your tenacity. 
I Was Going To Ask What It Was 
till I saw all the pipes :) 
But What About... 
fr3dm2? I'm still waiting... 
I swear down it used to be orange...? 
still looking awesome. Might have to give Doom 3 a reinstall. 
OMG ! It look so sexy ! Very good ! Very good ! 
Fine Screenies! 
I thought I saw Abe coming round the corner of Oddworld,
trying to save Friction from Burgerworld. 
MDLEd Preview 
My model editor program is moving right along, fully supporting frame and skin groups (mega thanks to Preach, as always, for info freely shared).

Probably won't allow you to edit the vertices in this program (but maybe in the future), but you will be able to export/import frames, export/import skins, rename frames, change flags, etc. 
looks pretty sweet, man.

what formats will you include for exporting? qme allowed dxf, and it worked well for 3dsmax (which imports and exports dxf) but different 3d packages are notorious for having all sorts of formats. :S 
Since it's just Quake models, I was thinking of something text based and simple like OBJ - plus OBJ is one of the most widely supported formats. I'll probably start there and see what else might be required... 
Looks pretty sexy there. Is this just to manipulate already-built models or to create new models? 
that would be nice, it's a better format than dxf for sure! 
(waiting for a windows port) 

Both. You'll be able to load existing MDLs as well as create new ones. I don't plan on including modeling tools so you'll have to create the frames themselves in something external and then import them as OBJs into this editor.

The editor will then allow you to set flags, rename the frames, create groups, import skins, etc. 
What Metl said :)

Very cool btw. 
Aren't those the same five shots you keep showing us every year since you started the map? 
they look very cool nonetheless. when will it be finished friction? the quality of doom3 maps is really fukn good to be honest, and it doesn't look easy to do. 
Seven shots, seven. 
Long Time Since Someone Showed Pics 
So here are something I work on 
Fucking Love It 
silver/grey door textures stand out a bit compared to the rest, but thats really the only niggle I can find.

Beautiful otherwise, bring it on :)

Is it SP or DM? 
That first shot in particular is incredibly boss. I can see what DaZ is saying about the grey archways, although that kind of grey looks fine in the demonic head wall textures. Maybe an outer ring of trim in the green-grey metal would make them look better defined? 
I love the lighting. Those high up shaddows look very forboding. 
your evilness is fucking hugely great!!!


bring it on. 
Ssssweet, Hrim.... 
...My pants suddenly shrunk...

When will you release it? 
Go map and release it ASAP ! I can't wait to play it now ! Good work ! 
Shots Look Excellent 
but where's that RL from? I'm assuming it some high poly version, but it looks surprisingly decent. 
Imo a bit too detailed and thin stuff there, but that might be just the old school me... 
Some Information... 
It's SP. Not many monsters yet though!

The archways change color now and then 8-)
As you can see on the pic it has one color on the top and another at the buttom. I change the hue and color now and the to find something that fits better!
Maybe a trim as Preach says!

Release? Can't really say guess the map is 85-90 % done, and going fast these past two weeks, but things can easily change if mappers block strikes! 8-).
Anyway Release is not that soon!

Thanks for your comments! 
Hrimfaxi your maps always worth the wait!!! :) 
Thanks Spirit 
I quite like that RL. 
Coming Soon. 
Really Like It 
Just a few nitpicks though.

1) I always thought those faked lens flares from lights in q3 looked awful :(

2) The sky is perhaps a bit busy with all those stars, but I suppose that is personal taste.

Really like the lighting in the 1st & 2nd shot, what is down that brightly lit pit in the 1st shot? Looks interesting :) 
Looks cools :) 
looks fantastic, I love the atmosphere. 2nd shot is money. Agree with Daz on the lens flares, but I actually really like the sky, don't change it! 
Lens Flares + Sky 

I actually really like the lens flares, and I know some poeple won't...

And the sky will be a reason to argue, too. The Starfield is moving really slow, but but there are fast moving clouds, too. Well, there is always the option to fastsky it ;) 
Looks great, man! I like the Quake3 levels that have that solid look to them. It's a "thick" sort of look and feel. The place feels like it could absorb rockets and not even feel it. 
2nd Shot Reminds Me A Little Of Qfraggel2 
is this a similar sized map or something smaller? 
Playerload is about 3 to 10 people, the "playable area" is about as big as q3dm7, but much more vertical.
It is also very VERY interconnected. You can run in a straight line from one end of the map to the other end from many points in the map, you just have to cover height differences to do so. Still, r_speeds do not top 9800 in the worst spots (with geometric detail set to low).

PS: I used an improved version of my old texture set from qfraggel3 with a few new ones as nobody seemed to use it and I can't find the time to do a new texture set ;p 
Sorry, Last Post Was By Me 
I did fill in the wrong textfield ... sorry nitin.

Oh, and there are nearly no hallways in the map, I tried to keep it as open as possible. 
great map, petty Q3 dont have SP ;)

but map got a real nice atmosphere, nice work 
I'm sure there was some SP Dune mod in the works for Q3...

Whatever happened to it? 
Coriolis Horse 
looks nice, maybe a bit too brown ;) Otherwise, I think i like the textures a lot. Need better shots/maptest!

The lens flares look weird, but i love the sky. Be careful with too many interconnections. 
Back To Quake 
After a few years of mapping on and off for Doom, I started something for Quake. It will be my second Quake map ever... and first in 11 years lol

This is what I've done today and I'm 95% sure I'll actually finish this one! 
hard to see because there are no light ;) just pillars

but since is a Quake map can�t wait for it!!!

go finish! 
More detail and texture variation wouldn't hurt, but welcome to q1 mapping 
hah! Nice to see people returning to the scene. You can definitely see the Doom influence on your level with the thick pillars. :) Looking forward to seeing what you come up with! 
That's funny.. people in the Doom community said they could see my Quake influence in my Doom maps because of the "chunky architecture". 
That Map.. 
looks definitely like doom to me ;-)

Anyways.. more detailing: 
Hey Megaman, that looks pretty slick!
Looks "smooth" but with detail.


Might get this out before this weekend, it's kinda done already... 
Havent I Played That Before 
did you put out a beta ages ago hipshot? 
Not The Same Level Dude. 
Few Shots 
It looks nice, i like the egptian style. The lighting could be a bit cooler, it seems very bright in places. It need to be kinda moodier - maybe some more sourced lights like torches would look good. Also there are some parts where you have very dark shadows on the ground - remember that enemies will appear at the lighting level of the ground they are above, so the enemies on 100% dark areas will be 100% dark. 
when i took the shots they looked very dark, so i brightened up the image in photoshop by 30% so everything could be seen easily. maybe this wasnt the best idea thinking back.

I intend to brighten up the ground in the last few shots, was just a bit eager to see what people thought about the shots so far.

Textures give a high Hexen2 mood.
Good atmosphere.., map on! 
Looks Great 
Really like the look overall, a few things that caught my eye..

In shot 3 the walls are quite flat, the texturing suggests a buttress or some-such coming out from the walls, maybe try and work on that a little.

In the later shots of the courtyard it looks quite dark at the bottom, some sort of flame holders or torches would do the trick I think and add to the atmosphere.

Perhaps more of a personal preference, but maybe the map would feel more atmospheric if it was set at dusk/dawn with more torch light and a lower angle on the sunlight. But then again im a sucker for the darker egyptian stuff :)

Looking forward to seeing this one :) I'm guessing its single player??? 
Aye, as said, it's looking very promising. Good work.

My only criticism is similar to Daz's first point, a lot of the walls look very flat/vertical. They look like they're already divided into seperate brushes for texturing, possibly add some variation to the angles (pitch?) of the walls.

But yeh, look forward to seeing more... 
looks like a daz map 
in a good way that is :D
those first two shots the ceiling is too low, i'll bash my head if i jump 
...before I read any post, I was about to say that the screens screamed [Kona] to me!!!

The low ceilings and all!!!

Well, I guess I need a good romp through the alk series!!!
I like the texture choices. The Q3 blocks go quite well with the egyptian detailing; I don't think I've ever seen that particular combo attempted before.

I agree with what others have said about lighting contrast and flat walls/ceilings, but it looks interesting so far. 
very very tasty ;) cant wait to put my hands on it!

keep the good work! 
It looks indeed very good ! Just a question: will it be DM or SP ? 
The level is going to be both sp and dm.

will see what i can do about the flat walls, im surei'll come up with something.

i did originally have the level set at night but couldnt get the lighting looking right so made it daytime. might give the dusk another try.

hoping to have a beta very soon 
I'm Up For Betatesting! 
... If you ever need a hand... 
flat walls but otherwise looks good. 
just a list, no time:

- weird flow. some parts i just don't know where to hop next to, others i discovered nice ways after a while. The water doesn't really help with that,
- i love the water before/jump to the teles, and the wood thing at the ya that you're supposed to jump up to,
- the color scheme works well, but is a bit monotonous -- could use some more variation over the map.

hmm, is there a way to do something against the washed out look of lighting with q3map2? i have the same issue in my current map -- it's either too dark or looks washed out. 
- Maybe it takes a few games to learn the flow, me and my friends have played probably over 50 times by now.

- The major reason why I kept myself from adding more variation and detail to the level is because of the file size and the r_speeds. Even though it looks pretty close, it is pretty open. And I wanted to keep the speeds just not to much over 10k at the peak place.

- If you don't use the -gamma parm (or any other "new" special ligth stuff), then there should be no difference between q3map and q3map2s light. I used gamma in this and -dirt. And for the first time, a very low blue overall ambient.

This is what the level looks like w/o my current -gamma and -compensate. Thus, just normal light.
I was seriously considering going for this and "fix it" so it would look good (not to vibrant, not to dark), but in the end I choose to use what I "always" use. The next map I do, I'll probably skip the -gamma value. 
...reminds me of the old skool temple style custom DM maps I used to lose badly to people on "back in the day".

That is a good thing. 
interesting. I'm using -gamma, too. i need to try disabling that. The washed out look is great for realism maps, but for my project its bugging me.

how did you get the bots to jump over the wooden thingie @ ya? :) 
FireCult Betas For Your Perusal 
Hay guys. I've been working on some Quake SP maps lately and was wondering if you would like to take a peek at them real quick and offer some feedback. The series I've started is entitled FireCult and currently has just the startmap and one single player gameplay map. Both are pretty close to completion, (the gameplay map just needs that last room finished). There are 2 more maps currently in dev for the series with some more slated. I'd like to get really into this project and would like some ideas as to changes I need to make for what I already have. Thanks guys :)

This .rar contains 2 bsps, 2 .lit files and the readme. 
Very Sweet 
i like it 
A short but very nice map. Having a horde fight at the end would ruin it for me though, the map deserves better. The atmosphere is amazing. Make it 2-3 times the size/length and it will be perfect!

There is one major issue: Rogue fullbrights on the textures. Try running the map in Fitzquake or a software rendered engine (eg winquake.exe). Some screenshots: (sure the "orb" should stay fullbright)

Maybe cut those centerprint "comments" they damaged the atmosphere/immersion for me.
Nice idea with the different twist in nightmare skill (the key appears on normal skill too though). I also like the vore surprise, heh. Is the secret available? I did fix the masonry but nothing happened (that I noticed).

PS: Please use a plain .txt file for the final readme. ;) 
I dunno what to do about the textures exactly, outside of changing a few of them. they bloom nicely in modern QW engines.
How many people really run in software mode?

I suppose I could clean those up a bit in PSP and rebuild the wad if it's a major issue. The lava textures are really supposed to glow though. It's a tough call.

The secret is available and is right when you spawn in ecfc1 in the lower area. :P the bricks thing isn't a secret, just a fun thing i put in there.

.rtf converted to .txt for future release.

thanks for the input :) 
It's not really a software thing, it's more a feature from original Quake that glquake was missing and not all later engines fixed (Most majors ones except for aguirRe's glquake do though). Definitely a thing to fix. I think Wally might even have a feature to eliminate them (or I mix up things in my memory).

That secret is well hidden, heh.

I just remember two more things: The wooden beams need some texture alignment fixing. And for me the rusty metal lights look out of place. 
"How many people really run in software mode? "

I will from time to time. It captures that original "feel" that modern engines just can't quite hit. FitzQuake comes closest to matching it though. 
Ok and yes I've been looking to remove those in Wally without ripping those textures up too bad. It's definitely a considerable change. I think one thing that may be a problem is that texture matching may differ once those are remipped, so the textures won't look right when tiled to each other eventually. It's worth some work and investigation. I don't want to take the ambience out of it by replacing the textures, but that may be a final solution if all else fails. Thanks.

Also, I don't want to give the impression that I'm dismissing the use of software run Quake. I think I left that statement a bit vague...I respect the crap out of what John and others have done to take the code to higher standards, I just need to test these out in a ton of engines before release... (that's why i'm still in beta) :D

Also, Spirit, That wood tex is getting replaced and aligned. I had texture lock on when i moved a bunch of them around :\ I'm also adding a ton of loose bricks to both maps for ambience.

The centertext triggers are going to be key to puzzle solving in later maps, so I want to keep them atm. I just won't overdo it, may tone them down a tad as far as wait times. Come on nobody laughed at the 'Djinn Antonic'? At any rate, I want this to be very un-Quake but a combination of Quake and H2 puzzle styles. The text is a fun part of that and allows for an immersive story which I feel Quake lacked, but Hexen II 'tried' to hit on.

The floor stones are meticulous enough in the lower aread to give you an idea as to where the secret is. I know it's a bit dark in that area and I didn't give it any clues on the texture. I hope people won't hate me for it ><. 
I Love The Style/theme 
Basically this map rocks!

Maybe another room on the start map.

Please leave the stained glass windows as they are - the fullbright textures there look sweet IMHO.

I like the fact the you get mobbed by dogs if you dont start off shooting. Leave that in too.

Get in touch with Ijed maybe when you've finished this and do a map for the Remakequake project (thread is in the dicussion section of func_)!!!

nice work 
Ooooh, I only meant the "uh-oh" and that other one (was there, wasn't it?). The messages on the tomb are very nice! 
GL_FLASHBLEND 0 and so on... and I dunno if there's any software charm to capture 
That's Pretty Nice 
Definate Koohoo and then This Onion influences.

I wouldn't make the tombs cause damage though - its only low but I was pissing about to read the text before I noticed my armour draining away.

Might be good to complicate those with some zombie spawns instead.

You could probably replace half the Vores with Shamblers.

For the finale It'd be nice to see lava bit open and a load of spawns. Just an idea. 
Lava Pits 
looks awesome, this texture set is very good and the lights are nice! keep the good work! 
this reminds me that old norvegian winter pak :) 
Very good use of DKT3 texture set there... Shots are very nice ! 
The texture conversion issues are glaring. The glass windows look really bad with those spotty/discolored areas. It's not just stray fullbrights, it's the pallette change from Daikatana to Quake.

I don't think using 100% "alien" textures for a map is very good. The screenie with the HK and ogre infighting looks very much like "Quake monsters having a field trip in Daikatana".

Their skins use the Quake pallette as intended, while the converted textures come from a different pallette. Thus, there is a mismatch. Textures and monster skins were created for different games, and it doesn't go together.

It's something else if you hand-pick Daikatana textures to go with original Quake ones, though. It's also something else in DM maps, because you don't see any monsters. So it can work - until you see Quake player models in the map, which again creates a misfit.

It often happens that a mapper becomes so fascinated with a game's textures that he wants to use them for the entire map, forgetting about all the issues that he is creating, because from his subjective perspective (through his momentary glasses of excitement) the map looks great.

But the map is only a part of the game. Quake monsters in what is practically, artwork wise, a Daikatana map just look shit. Smoothing over problems with bloom effects using certain engines is kinda dirty, too.

It's simply bad/no art direction.

Sorry for raining on the parade. But that's simply how it is. I'm sure they are great maps, but I could never get over the art direction problem.

This is only personal, of course. So... feel free to dismiss this comment... 
That Horse's Legs Much Be 50 Feet 
I love the art direction of the map. I think it looks incredible and quite unique. I wish more maps will pick up this dark and evil medieval theme. To me the textures are very very much fitting Quake.

JPL: Not my map. ;) 
I wasn't talking about only the map, I was talking about the map as part of the game (monsters, items, everything that is on screen). I think saying that the glass window textures look "incredible" is a bit questionable. Need glasses?

I was not even trying to be mean, just honest.

But anyway. It's UPG like much of what I say/post/write. 
don't agree with everything gb said, but yeah, saying the glass texture looks incredible, let alone even 'decent' is ludicrous. the errant fullbrights make it look like complete shit.

once those fullbrights are cleaned up, i'm sure it'll look fine. plenty of maps have been done in completely new textures, and they look great. doing a map is all (or most) DKT textures isn't the problem. it's just the bad conversion that is. 
i said it looked freakyy 
Well Ok I Said It Looked "sweet"

its just too beautiful your minds cant take it in. neither can mine. reminds me of my velux bedroom windows :S 
Now I Want An Eyebrow Smilie 
I DID mention that those fullbrights should be eliminated, didn't I? 
While on one hand you're completely right, on the other hand Quake itself is such a mish-mash/hodge-podge of stuff that sometimes it may not matter anyway. (Not sure how it is in this case, haven't looked).

That window texture is definitely ass though, that has to go. (Fix it or get rid of it!) 
replacing window textures for next release... thinking about making my own...

and patched up the lava brick textures to eliminate fullbrights. 
For Spirit 
Megadm4 Beta1 
screens & download: :D

comments on architecture appreciated! 
Look like a map. As far as architecture is concerned (and I am no expert on q3 maps) it looks like a lot of other q3 maps - pipes, support beams, curves, etc. Not saying it looks bad, because it doesn't, just that it doesn't stand out either. 

A lot to like in your map, good atmosphere and nice theme. Gb is right about the theme/monster mismatch, but that's something we've been getting wrong for years now, not sure why he's picking on you in particular :)

My favourite architecture was in the start map, very nice. The beginning area of the actual map looks a little sparse, could do with a little extra detail. Nice use of coloured light, are you a Quake 2 mapper primarily?

In the upper area, I think if you fix/replace those window textures it'll look good, although there's quite a lot of windows, maybe losing one or two would help. Have you thought about shining light through the windows using skylight? I think it works if you put a sky texture behind the window brush, and attach the window brush to a func_illusionary. Looking forward to the release!

Looks kinda like cold plain oatmeal tastes. You need to add some maple syrup. 
Oh Hay... 
starbuck, thanks. A majority of the problem is replacing those fullbrights in the used textures. I'm mid process of cleaning those up via color replacement in Wally / PSP, and losing one of the window textures in favor of the other, and yes I've considered adding skylight to the larger round windows as well. Also, I've done some things for Q2, but years ago. Most of the work I've done within a similar to Quake vein was for non-Source HL mods and more recently Q3 and some D3 engine. I'm one of the (probably) very few that prefer Radiant to WC/Hammer when it comes to Half-Life.

gb, I don't think it's a lack of art direction to put Quake monsters in a different texture set. ie: the Dtk3E wad isn't that far off the mark in Quake. As I stated in the readme and on our projects page many of the monsters are getting replaced / reskinned if I decide to make this more than just a SP set of maps specifically for Quake. The idea that it looks like a field trip to Diakatana for Quake monsters is a little unfounded to me in a game with teleporters and rapid loading / firing rocket launchers. It is what it is, I've always believed using the 'same old' .wads seemed a little uninspired after 12 + years. =/.

At any rate I'll have a better beta available by the weekend if anyone's interested. Thanks for the input guys :) 
in texmex there is an option to remove fullbrights 

Different texture sets are always welcome, IMO. The id textures are great but they're getting a little long in the tooth.

I think the Daikatana ones, especially, look great in Quake. The palette shift is not so great that things look out of place to me. Medieval is medieval - it generally works. 
yeah, the greyness of it.. ;)

zwiffle: well, it's for competitive gaming, so it mustn't stand out too much. It needs to be easily recognizable, with distinct areas, and architecture that gives the gameplay focus. No chartres allowed :(

thanks for the feedback ;) 
I used TexMex when I was putting The Onion wad together and it often missed one fullbright - there is a reason but I can't remember what it is. 
I think that looks great, the lighting and texturing look lovely. 
Oh And Is That Fog? 
or some spiffy shader for the bloom-ish light effect from the roof? 
just wondering if anyone fancies beta testing my new map. would appreciate any feedback anyone has to offer.


OK, some quicky feedback:

- love the look of the map! It's simple but man do those textures work well! Some annoying fullbrights here and there but nothing tragic.

- the zombie pit/cave is awesome. nice telegraph and it was fun clearing them out.

- I think it needs more ammo. I ran out a few times and had to cheat.

- needs a little more health as well, IMO.

- the blue and gold key doors/grates really need to be marked. I had the blue key and was wandering around thinking, "I don't remember seeing a blue door...?" And then something opened for me that wouldn't previously.

Nice map though! Must VIS like lightning! :) 
Nice looking map. For me it was a bit to easy. In the first half the fight feels too static for me. I think you should challenge the player to move a bit more (more scrags, some more ogres in close combat, one or two surprise fiends). The look is ok even if I don't like the Egyptian texture set that much. Layout is also nice but as Willem said you must mark the key doors. Ammo is tight but not impossible on hard skill.

Here is a first play demo recorded in joequake. 
i will not download ;) i want final product but i�m glad there is another mapper in house!!! now delete map to many people to beta! 
Nice Looks. 
Lot of space for improvement, though.
Some tex misalignments especially around stairs edges and on the slope leading to the 1st vore.

Gameplay is indeed a little on the easy side, I suggest you'd remove the last shambler and have him teleport in when you get the gold key. After that, a huge monster+ammo+(item) spawn may start a battle royale to round things off. Otherwise, after the gold key, the action's over...

Sk3 demo.

Nice work overall... 
Ah... Trinca... 

the silent si prega di chiudere il cazzo


is u need help to map hard i�m a pro in making hard maps :) 
You're killing me...

My fave mapper!

I love it, but I've always been a sucker for that texture set. Great brushwork, very nice use of textures. There are a few places in the floor grooves i got snagged up and had to noclip out of tho. I can make screenies if you can't find them. Some clip brushes should clear those up nicely. Maybe consider moving that SSG a little closer to the player spawn if it doesn't throw off gameplay all that much.

Overall it looks like you invested a lot of time in this. I'm a fan of the loosely placed bricks myself, it adds a real nice ambiance to the map. 
DeathMethod very good use of textures and gameplay never to much hard... nice ambushes!

id1 size of map stile very short and very fun to play! 
Coag3 Beta 
I uploaded my map for the coag3 pack:
If anyone feels like doing a quick beta test (it's a small map - ~50 monsters) I would greatly appreciate it :) 
i'll try to do it 
check your mail 
dont waorry mine is also small, didn�t had much time lately 
Nice and very hard in the beginning, a health pack or two right at the spawnpoint would be nice (at least on skill 1). 
I will wait for release ;)

Spirit weren�t you suppose to play then only when release come?

Noob :p 
Oh, Trinca 
shut the f. up 
trinca accepts spy's shaft 
Spy i was ~DM player after i play Q1SP...

My shaft is better noob!

Fry bitch!

Trinca, I'm Sure Your Shaft Is Better Than Noob's Shaft :) 
but you accepts my shaft still
btw. where is my quad shaft? 
i rarely add LG in my maps... i dont know why... i guess isn�t my favorite weapon! 
Get A Room You Two 
trinca, i wish i could met you in real life:)
i'd buy you a bottle of russian vodka, maybe a two bottles, i know you're prefere a wine :( 
wine and beer owns!!!

but with friends few times a decade!!! why not? :) 
Trinca is a nice guy, but he would absolutely slaughter you at Quakeworld. I promise. He kills me about 50 times for every time I kill him :(

The only reason he dies on Q1SP is because he is impatient, and doesnt know how to do the caustious approach. A bit like Nahkihir only not quite as good a shot :P 
Alcohol + Women Are Own :) 
shit, today is my lovely ex gf Yana's bd, so i'm fecking drunk, hb Y where ever you're would't be 
Spy move forward?

Ex is past... past shoudn�t be talked... get out of home or work now, and go get a fresh bitch.

the best women ever is always the one you eating at the moment. :) if not get another that will be! 
if i wouldn't drink so much, i sure i'd kill Trinca with my gl/rl/lg combo, in NQ, i'm pretty suxxx at QW though..... 
I know, but the last year was though for me, i lost my wife, lost my gf, shit, i lost almost everything i had. sorry nostalgia here :( 
Well Your Still Kickin' 
My freind was a blackbelt in Tai Kwon Do, had a good job as a machinist, lots of women liked him, he had many freinds, his own place, family etc.

Hung himself.

My sisters boyfreind has very bad chromes disease and suffers unimagianable pain a lot of the time. but he is a nice guy and would never do that to us all.

Go figure. 
spy don�t stress ;) take life calm man, everything will be fixed with time...

I advice you to drink less... alcohol is not a good friend.

If you feel bad you will feel worse with booze believe me!

Go to a gin ;) make sport! Sports purify the mind not alcohol :)

And I think you are a nice guy, so I wish you best of things... so stop drinking and go to a gin is full of sexy bitches...

Big hug to you, and to Negke my bitch 
Ricky, i heard about your friend, life's sux sometimes(always) :( 
Sorry For Clogging Up This Thread With Nonsense (sorry Ericw) 
Spy life is not so bad! Atleast you have food to eat, live in a country with healthcare and technology, have the option of drinking alchohol.

I personally feel angry with my freind. His self pity consumed him. I dont believe in depression. Well, unless a doctor diagnoses you then you take pills and get councelling and get better.

All problems are gifts, opportunities.

Life without pain is not real life. There could be no good feelings without bad ones, or else who would know the difference. Everything would be sterile and flat and boring. It would be like being numb.

A person with nothing has something very valuable - something to gain! A person with everything has nothing to gain.

You have a talent for something. Dont waste it! 
i lost my wife, lost my gf

I think I see the problem here... You're not supposed to have both.

But in seriousness, take care Spy, ex's bdays are shit. Drink until you pass out then wake up tomorrow with a new day... 
Every Time I Wake Up 
i wish i'll have a new day/life but my past is chasing me... [shit], once agian forgive me please.. []it's just a fecjing nostalgia... 
Feel better, spy. Time is the greatest healer for this sorts of things. This will pass. 
Time is the greatest healer

Also Paladins 
Healer Paladins 
Are gay.

They should be smiting undead and burning heretics. 
In Left4Dead where they give each other a shoulder massage and a quick feel up after the zombies have attacked. 
"Are gay.
They should be smiting undead and burning heretics."

^ This 
MDLEd Works! 
No screenshots yet because I ran out of time but I'll post some this weekend. I got MDLEd to write out an MDL successfully and am now able to get custom models into Quake. It doesn't handle skin or frame groups on the writing end yet but I'll add that on the weekend as well. The basics are in place so I'm happy!!

Man, MDL stuff is WAY more complicated then it has any right to be. Sheesh! 
I dont believe in depression

Spoken like a person who has never been truly depressed. Don't be so ignorant, please.

Everything else you said in #5587 makes a lot of sense though... are you feeling ok? 

Willem, all we need now is a windows version - there seems to be alot of discrepansies in the versions of Qme - framegroups yes / no different model formats, uv formats etc. 
Spoken like a person who has never been truly depressed. Don't be so ignorant, please.

That's like telling someone who doesn't understand love because they've never fallen in love not to be ignorant. How odd. 
He's not saying he doesn't understand it - he's claiming it doesn't exist. It's a very different thing.

It's like saying you don't believe in Japan because you've never been there yourself. 
Will be released soon, adding a bit more onto the end as everyone said it finnished too sudden 
Mc Kri Szaree Alias Gyrizmanics Kula Edition 

The legend of continue:
gyrizmanics kula edition maps extended pharse continue 
Alternate Mc Kri Szaree 
I Dont Really Think I Understand What You Mean Mate? 
You want us to email you for information on what exactly? 
Viagra, Obviously. 
I think he has between 20 and 40 million in the name of a prince who needs someone in your country to transfer it for him. You'll get a cut, obviously. 
extended pharse

wins Shambler's Goatse Seal of Approval. 
Isn't the entire of func_ an extended farce? 
Level Is Finally Complete (again) 
level has been fixed with everything i was told about in the previous release and i added a bit at end of it.

feedback would be greatly appreciated thanks 
The end game though, could be more challenging. Easy to pass by monsters infighting.

Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

The shambler near the gold key is still easily killable from behind the bars.

Great improvement in layout and nicely implemented multiple routes...

Good job! 
if that is final release, post a news item (or just post a comment confirming and one of the mods will). 
It says beta in the file name and a textfile is missing. ;)

Can't wait for the release! I so want to play this. 
It wasnt a final release, will add a bit more and release it tonight. 
then i will wait untill tonight :p 
Anyone feels for betatesting small Quake1 level? 
i'm glad you didn't abandon that map 
Interesting map. Very promising, a lot going for it, but needs a lot of refining too.

+ Strong theme
+ Consistent textures
+ Good and interesting layout
+ Interesting exploration
+ Backtracking is well covered
+ Some great scenes and some good architectural themes
+ Generally good, well balanced gameplay
+ Layout (water + backtracking) makes fighting more interesting

- Architecture is sometimes scruffy.
- Not always a strong link between different sections.
- Some sections e.g. underwater are pretty plain, also underground cave section looks plain
- Underwater section underused
- Could do with more monster variety, how about some lesser used ones e.g. spawn and dogs
- Item balance a bit funny, not always items in the most useful place.
- A few too many shotgun shells and not enough rockets

Needs fixing:
!! Many doors upon upwards when they should open sideways
!! Lots of trim textures are b0rked and don't match the section they're on
!! Stretched windows and textures need fixing
!! Skeleton is a decent model but needs improving: Looks too puny, weak animations, CC animation almost entirely lacking, shouldn't be firing lasers in a fantasy setting
!! Shouldn't be enforcers in a fantasy setting
!! Boss monster looks ridiculous, texture and idea is good but looks like a giant cookie monster, also pretty easy to defeat.
!! In underground section, switch, key, and doorway to bridge need more lighting up
!! Various sections where it feels a bit easy to get stuck on stuff
!! Skybox has obvious corner seams and crude ground sections

Keep tweaking and polishing this, it's a potentially excellent map, just in a crude form at the moment. 
Thanks for your commend shambler!

Architecture is a little rough because I spend most time on a few hom's that wouldn't get away. So I started from start and succeeded to construckt it again without a big box around it.

The way I transported Bones to Quake1 was a bit difficult, as the head had so many vertices I had to simplify it. And indeed it looks a bit thin, from a distance it is hard to hit. First I made its encraving touch on 4 units distance but than they glided away between the edges of bad polygons.
CC animations don't sound familiar, but wakes my interests.

As for the end boss. I know it looks stupid, yes. But I had this queer idea to make a thing coming out of nowhere breaking off space to escape along. So I ended up this way. My most concern was to make the textures right. They seemed to change from normal textures, as the lightning is supported otherwise.
I am changing its cube outfit more to distracted one.

So it all is in a half way state only to see if it's working.

Is there noone who can make a hom monster? 
Bones - needs to be beefier and ideally made more Quakier. Give him a Nailgun type thing maybe, and some brutal claw for CC. Maybe a slightly bestial skull, something like that.

End Boss - the idea is very good, something coming out of the walls, it's just the model looks silly for it, keep working at it. 
On Tarspleen was a version of Bones who had the claw attack, but I had to delete them. They made the model spawn away. I still have the animation frames of bones, but the transport to Qmle is so hard due to verticemeshes.

I still don't get the convertion idea to Max3D.
In some way the model always returns with an altered vertice count.
But I can make the End Boss more like a crunchy rock-type. 
Looking For Quoth Gameplay Beta Tester 
I look for a beta tester who likes quoth monsters and would like to test new gameplay on one of the id maps. Brushwork and textures remain in 99% unchanged but gameplay is teh rock :) 
I'm In. 
Love to betatest.

Address in profile... 
The Silent And Negke 
I have sent a mail with the map to you. thanks. 
sst13 release beta versions of Q3 map remixes in Quake style:
Damn nice, especially the "jumppads" on dm17. 
Bones Melee 
tried a melee attack for Bones with a sprite. 
Anyone know what the result was? 
which such name, this guy is for sure from India, or somewhere around... I guess it is an idiomatic expression from his country... Slumdog bastid :P 
I Think 
Bones scared him or something... 
Well... That's only mildly racist... 
It is not midly racist.... it is obvious this guy is a moron :P 
So from one individual's perceived idiocy it follows that you can call his entire (assumed) nation poverty stricken, semi-homeless illegitimates using a term that already has racist and caste connotations?

hatton down in 2nd 
Come Off It 
Racism is where you find it.

There's all the old standbys shouted by the real racists but at the same time alot of british are in a real blind spot.

The most racist people on the island are pakistani muslim. Indian pashto (?) hate thier fucking guts because they get painted with the same brush.

Cross the divide and you realise how little the difference is.

Then cross the equator and see brown nazis doing the same stupid shit and you realise an innocuos comment like JPL made in the grand scheme matters SFA.

Tob be honest the only bit of those posts that my peripheral thinking didn't filter was the result. I still want to know what it was. Gouranga? 
Calm Down 
What you name racism, must be named intolerance... Racism is much more considering that there are better races than others, hence the nazi concept of Arian superior race...

I'm not racist, and BTW I'm working with Indians all days in my company.. Also, using "slumdog" was much more a provocation (regarding the posts #5629 and #5630) than a racist act...

Sorry of some people think I am racist: it is not the case, else I would have chosen a French website, not an international one as it is here: think about it ;) 
its sensitive func at the moment! 
1) I found the comment racist, not the person (hi JPL! ;)

2) From experience my Indian friends tend to be more racist against the 'pakis' and 'bangos' than the pakistanis (altho I'm hardly denying that there exist racism within other, if not all, minority communities). But yes, I'm aware that rastafarians support black supremacy much like the nation and many other equally heinous groups around the world. That still doesn't justify any form of racism. It just makes them wrong too... 
Well, I think you understand correctly my comment now ;) 
Wasn't saying it justifies anything - just pointing it out.

What I mean is that there's typically racism all over the place to some degree, no matter how politically correct the society. Weather its positive or negative racism is another matter, but the lowest pack mentality typically surfaces in some way. 
Directing that at you, JPL. 
I didn't feel myself offensed: don't worry :) 
Proxmap6 Screenshots 
Electro has released the latest version of his Pro-X mod (QW RA/CA with multiarena support). More info and download link here:

This release includes a new map I've created (proxmap6) in the usual format, with a hub, 3 "duel arenas" and one large "teamplay" arena.

Below are some screenshots, 1 from each arena.

Firstly, the hub (choose your destiny):

1st arena:

2nd arena:

3rd arena (using some czg scraps as a base!):

4th arena (yes, it's just EFDM12 with some minor changes): 
Big thanks to Willem for giving us access to the Quaketastic server. 
Nice One Fribs 
3rd arena is teh s3x. 
humm will download then tonight!!! 
Don't Forget... 
The version includes all of the previous maps too, 5 other arena maps by NotoriousRay, BlackPope, [Kona], Speedy, and the Polish connection MisYu+QurneL. Even if you may not get the opportunity to play it, the maps are well worth a look if you haven't seen them before.

And of course, the mod itself is pretty damn sweet! Thanks Electro! 
...Isn't this a News item? 
I'm gonna download the stuff ASAP !! 
They look really really awesome! What fantastic brushwork, texturing and lighting! Quake 2 textures used to maximum effect right there! 
Start Map Screenie 
love the angles frib! 
i�ve played the hole pack when it came out!!! but i will download again for sure... 
Very nice Frib 
Yeah Wait... 
why did you post news in the screenshots and betas thread? 
Thanks guys. I posted it here because I just wanted to show some screenshots of proxmap6, since it is quite likely nobody will ever actually play the map.

Of course it doesn't hurt to pimp the mod a bit, but I know it has a very limited audience here (and I don't want to steal Electro's thunder!) 
i will play a little for sure... last night was trying sauerbraten :p but today i will try this for sure! 
check this, i was just searching around some of the defunct Q2 mapping sites, and found this non-defunct news entry on Musashi's page:

This guy's making a Q2SP pack and the news post is from 2009! 
Wowz!... Just Got Back 
from a full replay of the original game+mission packs! Enjoyed it greatly and went on search for some new stuff.

Found some garbage on Tenfour forums(they still keep track of all releases for several games) and was thinking about why noone does not map anymore for Q2... With acceptable quality, I mean...

This stuff rocks!!! 
I Sent Him An Email About A Year Ago 
thought that project was dead. great news!! 
I never played Q2... maby i should one of these days?

I think I just played the first and second level then got bored :| 
Q2 Rocked. 
Total classic game. Solid feel, good gameplay, good styles. 
I Knew That. 
Trinca is a sissy. 
ok, i will reinstall this weekend... 
Start QW in 1997 untill 2004 and only start playing Q1SP in 2004 :p so i miss Q2 in the time...

I never played Q2... maby i should one of these days? you shouldn't bother at all 
It will seem dated and fairly horrible if you're walking into it for the first time in 2009. It was AWESOME at the time when it came out but now ... well, it's been surpassed many times over by other games. 
I Wouldn't Say That Quake 2 In 2009 Sucks... 
... in the same way that I still like Jack Kirby far better than, say... Joe Madureira or Jim Lee.

I think that it can be enjoyed greatly even now, to me it's just a solid piece of action/storyteling with great interconnection and replay value, plus the "athletic" gameplay that only belongs to old school FPS.

To be honest, I'm not an heavy game player, I play almost exclusively FPS, so maybe I don't have a broad range of examples to compare Q2 to, but I think a good Tank/Gladiator/Gunner brawl still holds his own in his league.

Ah, Trinca, Q2 is WAY easier than Quake, turn up the skill level. 
if you still like quake1, then just think of quake2 as a really polished total conversion with its own custom engine. There are cool new textures, some great level designs with neat chunky architecture (the cooling facility and waste levels were my favorite, you can clearly see that they are the successors to tim willits' e3m5 and e4m1 maps in quake.) Also jail4 (i think?) was a really cool moody stone jail map with heavy angled architecture, and the city levels are great, and there's a low grav secret level, etc. etc.

Probably the big area of dispute is whether the monsters were as fun/well designed to fight as quake monsters, and whether the weapons were good compared to quake. 
Couldn�t get used to the yellow light, supposed it could be the atmosphere of Mars.

There are Q2mods where the light is white.
Best memory are the cave part with the outer defense attack.
One of the best mapping skills.

And although better of engine and all, it couldn�t attrack me more than Quake1.
Dunnoh, perceiving a monster better, don�t make it a better monster. 
<- Time To Dust Off This Icon 
I really should play Quake 2 again. Never finished it actually. Well I'm sure I stored that CD in a safe place, finding it will be easy I bet. 
Good Views Good Views... 
I agree it's now a very dated FPS, but...

great interconnection and replay value, plus the "athletic" gameplay that only belongs to old school FPS.

...this really. Characterful enemy too. 
I Like It A Lot 
Look up the Berserker mod - the best mod for playing Quake 2 on a fairly modern computer - shines up the visuals very nicely!!! And more.
Doesnt alter the gameplay much though, basically like playing Quake 2 but with much sexier graphics.... 
I think I've only completed it once (on easy, admittedly). I've only completed one of the mission packs, though. 
is a timeless FPS with some real improvements over Q1.

Especially Mission Pack 1, The Reckoning, is a real gem and contains some top-notch level design from guys who really knew what they were doing. The Reckoning is one of the top 10 FPS of all time.

The catalog of games which use the Q2 engine, or parts of it, is amazing.

Q2 has seen, is seeing, and will be seeing great custom maps, both SP and DM. *_*

Although it'll be obliterated by Q1 soon. 
Download Q2Max if you want glitz, and there's loads of mods out there - Lazarus was always my favourite, but that's a mappers POV.

But the core gameplay ruined it for me. 'Great, now the Quake guy moves at a realistic speed.'

And why most of the enemies humananoid? Apart from the bosses there were the Parasite, Gladiator and Medic - the best enemies in the game.

Other retarded decision - the player has run out of grenades but walks over some 'WEAPONSWITCH' and don't let them turn it off.

Weapons were shit. Compare them to the Awakening mod - light is a good sp example that uses that set. Railgun was excellent, but the rest just felt uninspired.

Ok, sour grapes that it was Strogg Wars 1 instead of Quake 2. 
True Colours 
Ok, sour grapes that it was Strogg Wars 1 instead of Quake 2.

That'll be the one. 
Nigga Plz 
It's a good game. Well, as far as good goes for someone playing a technically and conceptionally worse one. With a decent source port, Quake 2 is enjoyable every now and then. Q2XP is neat, for example, as it spices up the visuals in subtle ways and also increases the movement speed to almost Quake level. 
Q2SP sounds better then.

Although it also sounds like you'll be moving on to Strogg Wars 2 (or Quake 4) negke - don't go. 
Some (small) Progress 
Top of the architecture is not done (hence it is completely flat), and I think a kind of platform will be there: with Ogres firing grenades, or something like this... The map will be a kind of Quoth-agula concept... and a CDA sequel BTW.... maybe too dark... though... 
looks good so far. i like the detail with the broken tiles all along the edge. if you can keep that level of detail up for the whole map, it'd be pretty sweet.

are those undying textures? or like hexen2 or something? i like the gray stone and metal detail texture a lot. 
i guess its the daikatana episode3 textures 
I never cared much for Q2... 
Doesnt Look Too Dark 
and Maric!! 
Thnaks for feedback, and I used a mix of Daikatana episode 3 and Doom 3 Hell level textures :) 
Seconding what necros said ... the broken tiles look -sweet-! Really adds a sense of grim reality to the place. Gives it substance. Well done! 
This is a preview of the level I'm currently hacking on. It's going to be in a temple environment and feature specific combat arena areas. 
Thanks for the encouragements ;)

Your shot looks very nice as well :) 
very nice both maps!!!

go map ladies!!! 
looks cleanly built so far. 
If homoerotic (and wtf was a sheep doing at the start?) games aren't your thing then the Japanese also cater to the opposite end of the spectrum: 
some killer animation at 1:11. Just moonwalkin up and down those stairs. 
If you don't have that sort of stuff implemented then why put it in the environment. Oh yeah, because your target audiance is 14 and will one day be a 40 year old virgin.

The original video I saw had a character selection screen - they probably spent weeks getting the bump and grind animation just right, find it and you'll see what I mean.

Mind you, girls in bikinis chopping up zombies?

-> they'll make money. 
Or You Could Just Make The Two Games Into 
but then again there was some thing with 'omoz and moonwalking and zombies already...

you know it you know it

and i know this most likely didn't make any sense but ...meh 
Wot Trinca Said... 
Nice looking maps, good to have some quake to get excited about.

JPL, great atmosphere and tile details.

Willem, nice designs and style. One thing, please fix the texture under the arches so it actually looks like proper stone blocks (i.e. should match up with the blocks the wall is made of) </pethate> 
I love your brushwork style, very clean for lack of a better word. 

Thanks! And, yeah, ignore the texturing. There are tons of misalignments that I intend to go back and fix up later. Just trying to get the layout and a basic texture pass done at the moment. 
I Like These Shots 
Because they look awesome, and because you two both tend to finish what you start! 
Not Dead Yet 
Haven't posted anything in a long time. Just a reminder I am still here, and am still currently working on my next SP maps.

All work in progress:

They aren't much, but its what I have so far. I can't say how soon I am to finishing, I am a very slow mapper. But it will get done. 
Turtle Sign Allowed 
Good mapping skill on terrain area, almost fell through a McGee's level. Fine to see that cavey part well done. Lightning can bloat some texture, but that aside, screenies do own some atmosphere.
Keep on the good job! 
Cool, I like, the rock texture is a bit grim tho. Tried the Armagon one?? 
I think the lighting needs some work though, way to bright in most areas!

I like the 1st screen shot especially, more of that please! :) 
Thanks For The Feedback 
MadFox - It's hard to try to get the entire cavey part into one screenshot, but I can assure you that there is more to see. :)

Shambler - I had a look through the Armagon .wad, but I couldn't find a suitable rock texture replacment. Think you can point me in the right direction?

DaZ - I manually brightened the screenshots after I took them, since they were originally very dark, and almost impossible to see anything. Lighting levels seem to vary from different monitors, what may appear dark to me, may seem bright on someone else's monitor. I can tell you though, the actual lighting is darker than shown in the screenshots. Also, the 3rd screenshot has no lighting at all, still under construction.

Thanks all again for the feedback. :) 
there are some sweet rock textures in the rune wad, er somewhere in quaddicted. I recommend you check it out too :)

Nice shots btw :) 
looks good. Interested in what kind of wizard/city hybrid textures you've developed. the pink bricks look better than I would have thought actually... 
More Shot

Other side of the broken area is done... to be continued ;) 
i think some statues of knights and/or hellknights in that broken courtyard would be pretty badass.

maybe broken statues, even. just like, delete half an arm or the head and seal up the hole created. 
I was thinking about it, but it is quite complicated to either find good statue prefabs (I didn't look for deeply on the internet so maybe it exists), or to create it from existing monster...
It could be a good idea to add such things in next Quoth version... :) 
I like the pillars...

Also, seems to lack a ceiling ;p 
yep, ceiling is not done yet... normally there will be a platform placed onto the pillars... it is not finished :) 
This is code from starkmon for the dead player models:

"classname" "func_illusionary"
"frame" "82"
"model" "progs/player.mdl"
"origin" "848 2456 -1344"

You can change the player.mdl to one of the knights, and find the correct frame-number for a normal stance, like a statue...

There has to be a monster in the level already though, of the same type as your statue, and it has to appear higher up in the map file entities. 
If you are using Quoth (*recommended*), you should be able to include the knight MDLs from Rogue's Dissolution of Eternity Quake mission pack and use the mapobject_custom entity.

That is, of course, if you do not want them to spring into life at some point. :) 
RickyT23 / Generic 
RickyT12: It works fine indeed, I just have to find the correct frame number that correspond to the effect I want... cool !

generic: Thanks I have to experiment this stuff, I completely missed this one, and I was not aware it was possible to use it for statue generation :) 
Fine, this mapobject_custom works like RickyT23 hack, except it does not generate a warning during compilation :)
Thanks a lot for the information ;) 
Cheers to Preach for making it so easy to include.

Were you able to select the "statue skin" for either the knight or the hell knight? Just wondering. 
I tried with hknight.mdl, but I have to experiment more with different models, just by curiosity :)

Anyway, thanks a lot for the info: you rock ! 
Oh, I see: hknight.mdl has skin0 and skin1 (i.e Hell Knight and Death Knight)..; and I'm wondering know how to select in between the two skins... how can I do that ? 
"skin" "1" 
If you use the Rogue Hell Knight and/or Knight model, "skin" "1" gives you a nice statue skin. There are even some added frames for these MDLs that aren't in vanilla Quake or Quoth. 
Lardarse / Generic 
Thanks for this: I'll try it ASAP !!! 
New Quake 4 Level 
Looks Very Doom3-ish: good !! 
First shot looks good, but I see the cliche "floor panels ripped off the floor" and the walls are really flat - some angles in those walls could really make things pop.

The second shot also looks good, the orange lighting I like especially. Again though, things seem really flat.

Third and fourth shots aren't spectacular. It seems there is a lot of small detail (floor panels being different and so on) but nothing that really catches the eye - I think it lacks the big sweeping details.

Another way of saying it is, if you know art theory, is that there's no place for the eye to rest. It's all tiny panels and stuff, and no central ... thing. Does that make sense?

Otherwise it looks technically good. Is it SP or DM? 
Cool! Q4! 
Looks pretty solid, but also, what others have's pretty flat and square-ish and sorta samey...

You could probably stand to subdivide those arch curves a bit more--they're maybe a bit blocky.

The first shot is the most interesting to me, so some set dressing and models might help, but...yeah, axial. 
What PJW said. 
I want to map but i dont have time and inspiracion :( 
thanks for the feedback, i've made the walls slope as well no so everythings not at a right angle and added a bit more detail. hope to have some new screenshots soon 
Wasting Time With Worthless Things 
Converting the md5 monsters of with for Darkplaces for fun.

Scale of 0.7 might be right. Save the resulting models as .mdl and put them into progs/.
Darkplaces will tell you where to put the textures (I used the _d ones, only leave the name and .tga, eg qvore.tga). Rename the normal and luma(?) maps as usual for DP.
They will float in midair and of course the animations are wrong. But hey, it works. 
Forgot Normal Maps 
That Shambler Looks Like A Skaarj 
Needs more hair and less shoes.

And the Vore needs diertier teeth and less Disney crab pincers.

And the Scrag needs less symetry.

But I never really liked the Doom3 Quake thing much anyway to be honest. Too shiny. 
Yeah Vore Needs Needle Teeth 
Shambler Looks Dumb 
the vore looks pretty good though, and the scrag looks great, I think. 
MC Shambler 
Q3 Doodle ... 
that looks lovely, really nice substantial ancient look. I don't think the q3 door texture fits in with the theme though, that could be changed. Also, not a big fan of the pentagram lights. Apart from that, pretty stuff, nice work. 
agree about the door texture. maybe a wooden one?

i like the windows a lot. the outward slanting is usually connected with high tech stuff like space ships or outposts. having it made out of wood, surrounded by stone is a nice change.

the first shot reminds me of like those big stone meeting halls like for vikings or something, what with the thick wooden beams.

i wouldn't mind seeing a q1sp with this kind of mood either. :P when q3gothic is used in q1, it usually focuses on the more stone/metal aspect of it. 
I agree with necros. Convert that to Q1 and you have yourself a deal. 
First shot looks like a Strogg freighter with medieval textures. With the spotlights and the windows, and the central platform running down the room.

Granted, the look out of the window changes that impression.

Spotlights in an otherwise "medievalish" environment gave me the creeps for a long time, but you probably gotta go with what works. I was too dogmatic there. Torches are super limited, and games don't have to be realistic.

Pentagrams are most often really cheesy IMO.

Looks cool. 
I want to have sex with your windows Simon. :o 
Inspiration Sources 
I suppose the tech feeling comes from the use of base lights but it was never my intention of just creating tech structures and painting them stone. I did not want to be side tracked with creating textures so I used generic Q3 stuff instead so I could concentrate on the architectural shape instead.

I recently went on holiday to Barcelona and took alot of pictures of Gaudi stuff. I wanted to create something 'off angle' and branching upwards like a tree. (The black 3 prong structure in shot 1 for example) The interiors of his famous church has good examples of this.

The park he also created has awesome examples of sloped angled stuff which I was trying to create an architectural theme from. 
Nice Shots Sock.... 
and, unlike everyone else, i approve of the mix of tech elements like the spotlights, doors, and especially the window frames, with a medieval setting. This is quake3, the mashup of themes is core to the game. 
That Looks Great 
I also like the windows, and I like the view in shot 3 as well--that sort of background eye-candy is neglected too often (and when it is, and you stop killing long enough to look out the window it's all bleh and boring).

My only suggestion would be to add some sort of divider in between the stone block texture and the black-ish bumpy stuff--it looks odd to me to have the one on the bottom going directly into the other on top. I'd like to see an actual plate/shelf/something in between. 
Those Shots Make Me Smile 
Why not map for q1sp? All the 'cool' kids are doing it. 
Q1 Mapping 
I did Q1 mapping years ago but my PC went up in smoke and I lost all my data. After getting a new PC I never really went back to any of my old stuff, I just moved on to other games. I understand this forum is mostly Q1 centric but I know there are Q3 people that lurk here as well.

PJW, yeah I originally had a gothic trim below the black texture but it started to bother me because of alignment issues so I started creating new trims but stopped, because I wanted to shape doodle more than create assets. In game it is not too bad because the brick pattern above has a defining lower edge but I know what you mean. 
looks great, have you made more than that room? 
Anyone Interested In Beta Testing? 
that green brick map i started a while ago is almost done now.

just need a couple of opinions. it's for quoth2, and you need an engine that supports -quoth (fitz 0.80) because it's a pak file that goes in it's own directory.
i think you can get around it by renaming the pak file and dropping it in your quoth folder, but it overrides a stock quake sound, so that's not optimal.

just leave a message here if you're interested. :) 
Send it on over.

voice DOT of DOT the DOT nephilim AT gmail DOT com 
info sent. :) 
Totally Interested. 
never tested before, but definitely down to give it a go! 
ok, thanks. that should do for now. :) 
The vertical map? Cool!

Btw. the "work" link on your website crashes my FF. 
i use firefox myself, so maybe it an addon you have? i don't know enough to be able to try to fix it though. :S
i've been thinking of building a simple html alternative though. 
No idea. The only plugin I have is Adblock Plus. Latest version of Flash player. It's weird since all the other links work. Html alternative sounds like a good idea. 
'work' Works 
for me. 
zomggg a new release from necros :)

can�t wait for it!!! 
Looking excellent there Sock :) Where've you been hiding lately? Come back to #tf! 
Gently Poking Cardo 
OMG its cardo!!! :D umm I am not sure I want to find #tf again, does anyone talk there? I always got the impression of IRC that it is just a bunch of nerdy channel lurkers! ;) 
Hey Sock =) 
tf is still alive and kicking, quite a good laugh usually! 
Cardo ? 
Here ? OMG ! 
#tf just have a problem sock

Late Night Doodles 
evocative brushwork. :)

2 and 3 are my favourites. 
these shots make me feel an ansolute beginner! 
antsolute maybe, I mean absolute. 
Thats Fantastic 
love shot2. 
Fucking Sick 
Email me about RemakeQuake. 
sock just four words


outstanding dude! 
Just 4 Words 
Can't view the screenshots. :( 
Just 4 Words 
The shots are very nice !!!

Go map ! 
Shot 1 is cool for me because the corridor leading into the room is angled and feels like its leaning over. It makes me want to tilt my head to the side.
Shot 2-3 is the lower area of the room with big blocks and solid supports, split levelled with a lower section curving round like a little gully.
Shot 4 is the birds nest with windows all around and a tree silhouette top window design. Building materials get lighter as they progress upwards to make it feel more structural.

JPL, The weather is too hot and I can't sleep at night at the moment, hence the doodle / mapping thing.

Mr.Fribbles, not sure why, I checked and my site and it is working ok. 
Looks Cool, Yeah 
The wood/stone combo (and the corresponding architecture), or at least the way it's used here, adds a whole new thematic dimension to Q3. Well, I'm sure there've been similarily themed maps before, but I haven't seen them, so kudos to you for this approach. 
Very Nice 
Working for me now - and looking very sweet! :) 
#4 is awesome, man! Love the look of that area. 
Building materials get lighter as they progress upwards to make it feel more structural.

this is something i never really think about when mapping. thanks, i think i'll see about trying to incorporate this kind of attention to detail. 
Looks great 
Big Machine !!! 
Nice ! 
thats great. I have some photos of that machine, its epic! =) 
Heh, I remember that thing... 
Cogs Are Turning In My Head 
I'm assuming that's a static mesh, making those teeth out of brushes would be madness... 
Killer! Cogs are the new crates. And I LOVE it. 
Yay Cogs! 
I don't really like the texture on the cogs. It looks very grainy and blurred. Maybe something with less structure (or higher resolution) would look better. Also since they are functioning, I'd make the parts where the teeth touch a different, slightly less rusty texture. 
Cog Madness 
The cogs are created from brushwork and on the grid as well ;) Here is the source file if you want to check them out or used in Q1 projects.

Spirit, yeah the texture is not too good but I did not want to get too distracted with texture choices. 
Well, the MAP file is most definitely not a Quake1 MAP file so you'll need to convert it first. 
Q3 Map File 
The map file contains mostly brushes and some patches but I imagine someone here will know how to convert it to Q1. The file I have uploaded is in native Q3 format, sorry if that was confusing. 
It's cool, I was just making sure that people knew it wasn't native Quake1 format. It crashed my editor when I tried to load it. :P Which says more about my editor than anything else, really... 
Thanks Sock! 
Which is easily done with a texteditor and a bit of patience.
Quick and dirty, single texture, some broken brush:

I think they might be too detailed for poor old Quake though. 
Converting I mean. You just have to change the texture bits (I guess, the stuff behind the faces) and of course remove the patches. 
Surely you can just run it through mapconv? 
This Is What I Got 
after loading an original src file in the hammer editor 
Sleepwalkr's Java Map Converter 
had to poke around a bit to find it, but it's here:

Works for me from the OS X commandline. Converts q2/q3 to q1 map format and back again, adds or removes texture paths, etc. Quite a useful tool at times. 
THAT is badass.

i love a good cog setup ^_^ 
Good Work! 
Spirit! Looks Great. 
Trisoup Soup

aiming for 50/50 terrain and structures but trisouping seems to eat up more clipnodes/nodes and such. :(

also, if you go over nodes, it causes seriously bad stuff to happen in aglq, and fitzquake just closes without even bothering to yell at you. 
skybox is hipshot's 'stormydays' 
care to send me the map? I thought i supported excessive nodes (of course, i also thought aguirre supported them, since otherwise what's the point of adding it to his Qbsp ports?) Does darkplaces crash too?

Only thing i can think of is nodes + leafs > 65535 wouldn't work at all, but then, i assume the compiler wouldn't build a bsp in that case. 
sorry for the misunderstanding, i meant going over the *new* nodes limit.

i meant that fq will simply close when nodes are over 65k and aglq exhibits garbled bmodel geometry.

i'm actually a little curious about what plain 'nodes' are, and what creates them. if there's a way to reduce them like how clip brushes reduce clipnodes, that would be pretty sweet. 
A node is a volume of space, and if it has children then those children are subdivisions of the parent space (divided by a plane). Starting with the entire world space, you keep subdividing until you get leafnodes, which have no children.

Each leafnode is either solid, water, slime, lava, sky, or empty. The non-solid ones are called "visleafs" and have a list of other leafnodes they can see (calculated by vis) and they have a list of marksurfaces contained by the leaf (to draw whenever the leaf is visible.) 
less complex geometry gives fewer nodes :)

Perhaps geometry being more axial would help too, more weird angles creates more unique planes i think. 
Make a slightly (or greatly) simplified version of the floor out of clip brushes and make all the trisoup malarkey func_illusionary/wall? 
Look pretty btw, lot more peaceful than you normally get in Quake 
More Rock 
necros, looking good is there anymore to see? A more panned out view?
here's an indoors shot.

i had originally planned to use the hipnotic white brick textures, but instead settled on q3 bricks instead (smblk3b3dim_wall but i've bleached them a bit in photoshop). the hipnotic cathedral bricks were way too clean. 
...for president 
GLQuake's linear filtering makes sprites look very :( 
.tga Format 
Downside is that everyone with external tex turned off will be looking at crap.

A hybrid of the sparks and Quoth's marshlight with a simple 3d model could work. 
I'll Take A Crack At It 
When I get back to e3m4 - not happy with the textured lights in there. 
That Is 
If you can give me a hand with the sprite. 
don't help either:

That looks remotely good because it's circular like the id1 lightglobes. The problem appears when the sprite is not a circle nor rectangular, like the quoth2 reed, or even better,

I am certain that I have enabled external textures in fitz 0.85... 
But Enough About Sprites... 
Necros, that map looks pretty, are you aiming for a primarily vertical map again? 
nice pic necros look�s like a map of tronyn in soe indian summer map pack :) 
Sod Sprites 
The pic link is down - I scanned it before but can't remember well enough to comment. 
nah, no more vertical. it was fun, but i don't want to do that again.
it'll be similar to cda, i think. 
sprite and skin replacement is not supported by fitzquake (yet) 
Extra Glow 
Necro, why do the torch bases glow so much compared to the rest of the environment? 
The torch bases are a model. He used quoth entities. 
Something In The Works 
Down The Rabbit Hole 
More sleepless nights carving wooden pointy teeth. Ive included a brief one liner for each image, its something I do on another site and thought it might be more interesting.

A contracted wooden iris blocked by chains

A sky light framed by a circle of chains

A gaping hole lined with wood teeth

A dark connection with plain wooden cross beams and warm left-hand light -

Plughole kaleidoscope -

Down past gaping steps and angled wood lies helping metal hands - 
I love the one-liners. It gives every shot a sense of place before you click.

Lovely work, sock. The level is looking better and better all the time! 
that looks fantastic, lovely lighting. 
That looks too good for games almost - excellent stuff.

Aenoch - the link seems broken. 
Dreamhost is having a switch/router issue at the moment so Quaketastic is temporarily offline. It's being looked at... 
that looks fantastic ^_^ 
Looks excellent. The chains are a bit primitive though... Maybe use patches or, even better, a mapmodel, instead. 
Nice gaping hole, dude o_O 
3,800+ brushes and it's finally sealed. Now to start detailing and finalizing gameplay... 
looks fucking great!!!

i want this :p

go map! 
Time to START detailing?? Looks pretty detailed to me! 
haha no kidding. it looks great already ^_^ 
I� I� 
Not a fan of the texture set, but it's a taskmaster map, so weather it's good or bad it will be well done.

Good or bad being relative to whichever gameplay angle you're exploring.

Is that id basic sky tex up top? I'd always vote for skybox, but there you go.

The only question that remains . . . when :) 
wow very cool I like the brightness of the textures and vaulted ceiling, gives the area a regal/palace feel. What do you mean by start detailing? Is 3800 brushes alot? sorry for stupid questions, not a q1 mapper anymore. 
What Others Said 
Very promising shot :) 
Wow, thanks all! And, yeah, that area in the shot is pretty much done but there are others that need detailing (box rooms). :) 
I like the cathedral-esque up lighting on the ceiling, gives it a sense of grandeur.

Not sure about the square windows/light fittings tho, especially the stack of 3 on the left. They just seem too square/blocky. Possibly have one tall window instead, would flow with the lines of the room better and help emphasise the height
(altho all that may be based on the low angle of the screenshot)

And I'm all in favour of more detail, I reckon you can push a few more polygons out of the Q1 engine (altho it does look very nice already, I'm just a fan of adding modern engine-esque levels of small detail into Q1 ;) 
Good Stuff Willem. 
Looks very nice. 
So What Do We Have To Look Forward To Right Now? 
i know necros has some map that goes outside the 8192 cube, willem has the above-mentioned map, sock has that q3 doodle, gb and others are working on remake quake (or "re-quake").

Anything else? 
nsoe4 much? 
i really like your mapping ^_^ 
Be doing a demo sometime soon, just ironing out the last few issues and preparing stuff. 
That looks fucking great. 
just glued all the different sections together; haha i'm fucked.

*** WARNING 34: Nodes 51370 exceed normal engine max 32767
*** WARNING 30: Clipnodes 154267 exceed normal engine max 32767
*** WARNING 36: Vertexes 100497 exceed normal engine max 65535
*** WARNING 37: Faces 89958 exceed normal engine max 32767
*** WARNING 31: Marksurfaces 100194 exceed normal engine max 32767

even aglq crashes.
i don't know why i always do this. >_< 
FFS, you were THAT far over and didn't realize it? :) 
Try upping the -heapsize to 262144 or higher. 
I Don't Think That's Gonna Help 
Hey necros, I like your mapping, too - if I can play it in any engine, that is... 
Smashing Limits 
OMG talk about breaking compiler/engine limits, but I can understand. I often go days or weeks without compiling and just work endlessly in the editor building stuff. :) 
That map isn't sealed yet, right? 
spent some time sealing the map, and i'm still way over.
*** WARNING 30: Clipnodes 59235 exceed normal engine max 32767
*** WARNING 36: Vertexes 69984 exceed normal engine max 65535
*** WARNING 37: Faces 58181 exceed normal engine max 32767
*** WARNING 31: Marksurfaces 68767 exceed normal engine max 32767

even if it weren't for the over the limit 65k vertices, 59k clipnodes only leaves like 6k left to build and here's the punchline: it's only half done.

i don't think there's any way at all that this can be streamlined to work in a single map. right now i'm looking at using the info_mapgate stuff to try to make some kind of hub map setup as i don't want to just throw entire sections away. :S 
you've already got the player route so locked down that you can't eliminate backtracking to previous maps? 
i think that's a good idea. the big problem with a hub map which contains monsters is that depending on where you are emerging from, a different set of monsters would have to be spawned in.
you would never be able to get 100% kills, which kind of sucks. then there's all the jiggery pokery with having to keep track of all the different states of the many lifts, doors, machines etc which would be, probably, impossible without creating a new mod. 
better just to break it into isolated levels and if you need to add connectors and re-work the player route in each level, do it so they can be self-contained. 
Fuck All Of You. 
taking your maps to new levels and shit.

anxious as hell to play them. I am jealous of your superior skills/ hopeful they exist because your social life is crappier than mine. 
You could kill the unneeded (remaining) monsters with hurt triggers in the spawn rooms and determine which monsters teleport in by staggering multiple teleporters for each one. It's not the most elegant way, but it should work.
I once had an idea for a hub map that would have three or four interconnected canyon/caverns-like maps center around a central hub with a temple entrance. The player would have to collect runes in each of the canyons and return to the temple to open the gates. Then the actual map would start. There wouldn't have been many monsters in the canyons, just a few fiends and tarbabies and the like scattered about and moving along their paths - the natural fauna so to speak - so it's not a big deal if they were alive again upon returning to the level a second time. Then again, this idea doesn't really require a multiple-map hub structure unless each of the parts is fairly large. 
it would have been ok if i had started making this with a hub in mind. :S

i like that idea though, you should give it a shot ;) 
Bravo Necros 
"natural fauna" LOL. No wonder your mapping is bonkers, negke! 
If i owned a game company necros and negke were the first people i hired :p

If i win Euromilions i buy ID Software rights of Quake and start a new mission pack. 
Brushwork Prefabs 
I was stupid enough to think my mapping stuff is artwork and I recently posted it to an art portal, it got banned I was told to stop using prefabs and make my own stuff!

So here it is, my crappy artwork made from brushwork prefabs! :)

Inactive Generator -
Dormant Power -
Crackling coils -
Switching current - 
Those sure are some excellent prefabs... 
Awesome++, man. Really sweet looking! 
I Clicked On The Links And I 
My Eyes ... 
... are blending from all the CAPS!!! :P

I can assume by the shouting 'you like?' Anyway the images are of a 3 stage generator puzzle which opens up and needs to be switched on via various levers around the room etc. I don't want to tell too much because the few people that will actually download my map are actually reading this forum! 
My Eyes Blend Sometimes Too. 
That looks awesome.

Don't know if it's actually "art" though... ;)

I Love Sock 
phantasm11's really great looking q3 map using sock's textures and some of his own : 
That DOES look nice! Wow. 
Cartoon is too strong a word, more like 'well drawn'.

Need more coffee. 
that looks really nice. 
the few people that will actually download my map are actually reading this forum!

No, i'm not! 
Q3 Temple Map 
the architecture looks very nice and solid, but I'm not sold on the tree roots. I like the idea, and I've always wanted to do something similar myself, but I think they could be higher poly and more twisted to be more convincing.

Not to be anti or anything, just sayin'. 
The Mortewood Plaza Mod

Now, that's a shitload of weapons to kill zombies with. 
Some UT3 Shot 
I love the knife with the grenade strapped onto it. 
Re: Some UT3 Shot 
that looks awesome ^_^ i love maps where you're suspended or floating above stuff in that way. 
Progress Shot 
Castle helmet :

Im happy with the outline, just need to finish off the lighting and texture density/alignment. Add '_1024' to end of filename for larger image. 
The lighting on the front looks a bit sketchy.
The roof and floor textures are too blurry scaled, I guess you mean that with "density" though.

The different heights of the rooftops look great. Gives it a mushroom/dwarf like fantasy feeling (in a good way, heh). 
not too enamoured with that sock, looks too cartoony to me. 
I Like 
the architecture. Personally I think the roof and outside floor are the only problems. I'd choose a wooden shingles texture for the roof and maybe add some more detail to the floor by removing the odd floorboard here and there, or making them slightly crooked, or perhaps just add some darker wooden trim between the wall/floor joint to add a hint of structural realism to it. 
I like the style! I like the layered look to the architecture. 
Good Feedback 
Yep, totally agree the screenshot does have a mario/soft focus look about it, but that is partly to do with the phong shading (far too high)

I will work on the location a bit more tonight, rework the trims, add more wood and try and give the structure more detail. W post another screenshot later, thanks for the feedback. :D 
I like it. It's different instead of the same old same old. 
I Like It Sock 
the outlines remind me in some strange way of the Goetheanum: 
Another Shot 
I changed the textures on roof and trim, a bitch to setup the top wall trim, too many weird angles but it does make it feel a bit better. Toned down the phong and increased the shadow map density so less jaggered/rough edges. (_1024 version avail)

Ive switched the floor to stone for the moment until I decide what to do with it, detail wise. The above shot is panned out alot, the player will never see that much. So here is a couple of shots from the floor at player height, the building feels different to me from the closer angle. (_1024 version avail) (_1024 version avail)

Does it still look cartoony? Roof trim, like/dislike? upper roof leave or same trim style? 
That Looks Much Better To Me 
especially the close up shots.

From far away it still has that cartoony look but not as much as before.

Roof trim looks fine to me. I dont like the upper roof tile texture though. 
.. I'd really would like to have the .map to see how you made this curved corners.... 
The angles on the outside wall just look too soft! I don't think the brickwork would naturally decay like that, if it's old; if it's new, it would be a very sharp angle. 
This thread is like tumblr for mapping -- I love it. 
the building looks much more imposing from close up. i don't know about 'cartoony' but the panned shot lacks that imposing feel.

the flared out upper part of the walls make it feel powerful when looking up at it from the ground. 
Hong Phong Phooey 
@nitin, I will changed the texture density for the roof tiles, they are far away and look alot different from the ground.

@JPL, when the map is finished I will release all the source files, so all will be revealed soonly! (The curved corners you are looking at are brushes with a 60 phong value on them.)

@negke, the phong lighting and texture alignment/density is the illusion.

@inertia, ooo never heard of that place before :D Yeah this place is a cool mapping blog/home, lots of different people.

@necros, yeah the panned out shot was really so everyone could see the overall outline, but yeah it feels alot different up close. Most people rarely look up in games so alot of high detail will be missed. 
Most people rarely look up in games so alot of high detail will be missed.


1. spawn in some annoying flying bad guys with low hit points

2. shootable buttons near ceiling to open doors

3. game mechanic that rewards taking photos of rare objects or creatures, requiring people to look around more

4. cutscene that takes control away from the player and shows your preferred backdrop while "plot" happens in front of it

5. a tantalizing secret item that you can see easily but can't tell how to climb up to without looking around 
I'd go with the same trim style on the upper roof. It looks unfinished to me now, with the trim on the lower.

I'm not sure if the floor texturing was just unfinished in the first shot, but I kind of liked the look of that better. In that first shot it almost looks like decking...some sort of rough-hewn planks or something. Much more interesting than that square-cut stone in the new shots. 
Get a job making drinks on the beach instead. 
Re: Tumblr 
I mean sock you are basically livemapping. It is awesome. 
Already Shown On #tf... 
.. just posted it to show the progress f CDA sequel :)

Top of the destroyed castle is yet finished, I hope to start next area soon :) 
That map is definite hotness! Can't wait to play it... 
Looks Very Nice JPL! 
go go go!!! 
zomggg i need inspiration ~:\ havent mapped for weeks... not a single brushe!

look very cool JPL, keep the good work! 
I hope any light dwells on buttom of these dark caverns. 
Can't tell, are you using minlight? 
Yes, minligth = 20, and sunlight = 110... light compilation has -nominlight option in order to obtain some complete pitched black area with antilight...
What's the problem ? Do you have problem with your screen setting ? 
Minlight and those textures don't mix too well. 
I made a try without minlight, and it is completely black-ish darkness-ish in some area where there are no light sources... hence my decision to use minlight... just a matter of taste afterall... though... :P 
the floors look washed out, the shadow areas don't. 
I'd try a browner color instead of the white trims to lose some of the cartoony feel. 
Are you using 16 bit or did you change the gamma or brightness a lot? The colours look awful (not the map, but the screenshot). 
... does not reflect the map ingame guys ! Please remind this... Actually gamma is set to 0.55... (default value I think)... I just reworkd brightness and contrast by increasing the values respectively by 40 and 30% before posting... as I do all the time :/ 

Set your monitor to sRGB if you can and calibrate further if needed: 
Well, it means that the map is darker than it is seen ingame... hmmmm seems that I have to check that now... but I fear that the main problem will then be to provide screenshots with something visible... bad... 
Actually gamma value is directly linked to the brightness set in the Quake setup menu.... So if gamma is set to 1, it is very dark... then if gamma decreases, it is brighter...
Also depending on your screen (CRT or flat), the rendering is different... it then explain why it is impossible to satisfy everybody with shots: better is to wait for the release, and play the map ;) 
looks awesome. <-- for you guys who think it's too dark.

a suggestion: i'm not really a fan of the 'small bright pinpricks of light spaced far apart' style of lighting. i like it when that is mixed in with larger, longer reaching lights.

if you can run in fitzquake, turn on r_lightmap 1. ideally, you should never have any surface with uniform light on it. it should always been ramping up or down.
obviously, this is only an ideal and it's impossible to actually do that. still, i feel it's something to strive for anyway. 
I've noticed that in your maps, you tend to use almost entirely short-distance & high-intensity lights. Have you thought about having longer 'wait' or 'delay'? 
minlight is a lot less necessary if you use delay 2 or 3 (1/x and 1/x^2 falloff formulae, respectively).

Input those functions into a graphing calculator program, and you can see what the light intensity falloff looks like. There is a tight core of high intensity light, and then a long tail of slowly dimming light. Just a couple of those lights can just about light a whole room.

In fact, the light will be fullbright at the center (see the graphed function, which goes asymptotic as it approaches zero), unless you use aguire's delay 4 fix that doesn't allow the light intensity to exceed the value of the "light" key on the light. 
just a correction to avoid confusion,

1/x = delay 1
1/x^2 = delay 2
and aguirRe's capped version = delay 5

i think jpl is using delay 2 lights, but the wait setting is set way up (like 2.5 or 3+) 
Thanks Necros! 
my post was both obfuscated *and* incorrect! 
Light Settings 
Actually I'm generally using

delay = 1 or 2
wait = 1
light = 80

Fait enough to obtain the desired effect, at least on my screen ;) 
settings i've been using lately which i'm pretty happy with as a standard light caster:

delay 5
wait 1.25
light 450

gives a fairly long range light but with a nice bright center. i hardly ever use delay 2 anymore. i find delay 5 is a 'safer' option because of the way the capping works, it creates a nicer falloff that's more forgiving when going up high with light values. delay 2 is kind of touchy.

if i've got multiple braziers or torches in close proximity (say 128 units apart), i'll pump the wait up to 2 or 2.5 to prevent over saturating the area with light. 
Good Info 
So is linear falloff ever useful anymore? Maybe only good for small rooms? 
I'm trying to have "real" light rendering. Any light that is not a laser, is non coherent, and generally not "directed" (i.e meaning that without any parabolic mirror, there is no way to direct it), So a non laser light is emitting in all directions... Also, the emitted light power is fading out by the square of the distance... so using wait = 1 and delay = 2 is then the most obvious way to have something close to reality... BTW, AFAIK, wait is only providing a multiplying factor to the light field.. i:e the formula becomes then

P(x) = wait * light / (x^2)

Anyway, depending of the effect ingame, these values can be tuned as desired by the mappers, and each mapper has his habits / clues... ;) 
More To Say 
This formula is "true" if the environment is wet air... it has to be tuned according to humidity, temperature, fog presence, etc... and then delay can increase dramatically.. though... 
I like the wonky look :) 
I experimented with Delay last night. I had never really used it before except for simulating sky light (Delay 2, Wait .25 - .4, Light 25-50). A few of those up high can give a soft skylight effect over a large area.

Maybe I'm just too used to the way the original Quake levels look, but when I tried Delay 2 for indoor lights it just didn't look right to me. The "hot spot" was too hot and the fall off extended too far causing a sort of "minlight too high" effect.

Delay 1 was a lot better looking to me, I can see using it some, but the hot spot effect is still distracting. There just seems to be too rapid of change in light level between the core and the falloff.

I tend to make mostly indoor type maps with relatively small rooms and lots of obvious light sources, so that probably has something to do with it.

What ended up looking best to me was Delay 1, Wait 2, Light 80, but I'll probably end up sticking with my usual 200-250 (sourced) Lights with lots of 125-175 (Wait .5-.8) fill lights to simulated relected light and such. 
Everyone who plays with lights, make sure you use an engine with Overbright support like Fitzquake. 
Need Someone With UnrealED3 (UT3) 
Crossposting from the Mapping Help thread:

I need someone with UnrealED3 (the UT3 version) installed to take a brief look over a map I have been slowly working on for a loooong time now to help me decide whether I should continue slowly building upon it or whether I should just put it out of it's misery.

Download it HERE
DoW2 Map In Progress

From the other day, just showing the layout

Much detailing still to be done, but it's coming along quite nicely. It's theme is unique to DoW2, being a mashup of Desert and Jungle enviroments to make a somewhat Tropical Paradise. This will be me entry to the Community Map Creation Contest run by Relic. 
lol i dont even know what is doW... doW2? roulf

look like a far cry map but with no details! 
Dawn of War 2.

Looks nice scamp, good fusion of themes. When I saw the game screens I was imagining something more beachy tho (compared to the layout shot), I'm aware you need to keep gameplay balanced between sides, but possibly have sea as one of the shared outer edges of the map (ie, top or bottom). Sand/beach in the middle of green hills seems strange...

And good luck with the contest :) 
Oh I fully relieze the strangeness. Originally thought of making the entire map an island, but a problem I would've had to deal with was hiding the edges of the map if you tilted the camera to a low angle. Instead, I decided 'fuck reality' and went full bore with something as unearthly as a landlocked beach. 
Probably In The Plan 
But more buildings - stuff without human sized apertures / dimensions. 

look like a far cry map but with no details!

Haha, indeed.

So just make it an island in a crate! Like that toilet map of yours, only 'used' this time.
(Ok, if you must, maybe in a Borg cube then, to comply with the scifi setting...) 
Noone has UnrealED3 (UT3) installed? 
jago what for?

pure crap ~:p

please come back to Quake

enought of wasting your time! 
Sure, when it does 80k tris at 100+ fps on mediocre hardware and comes with a nice assortment of prebuilt meshes. 
I have it installed, and I could run it, but I haven't used it in quite a while and am not really inclined to since I have no plans to map for or play UT3. My condolences. 
Last Time I Checked 
the world was pretending UT3 doesn't exist. 
I Quite Like The Game 
I Don't Get It. 
All the weapons feel flimsy and the visuals have so much 'cyber-punk' grime and lens flare shoved on top that it's nigh impossible to tell what's going on. 
maybe screenshots for us who don't have ut3? 
Alright then.

Note that the red brick texture obviously isn't final, its something I just use to block out things, there isn't any real lighting, its all in-editor and very very WIP, well you get the point: 
I like the basic structures and things. Looks like some fun fighting areas there. As you said, very WIP but promising! 
i don't think the red brick is that bad, honestly. is there a dirtier version of that texture though? the metal looks pretty grimy but the bricks look pretty new. course, it depends on what look you're going for. full on tech, yeah, you probably want metal walls but if you want industrial, bricks aren't a bad choice.

second and third shots have a nice look to them. i think keeping the amount of symmetry low would be good (but shot 3, for example, should stay symmetrical for contrast)

my only beef is that the map is so full of mesh objects it's hard to see what the underlying brushwork is, but on the other hand, i know that's pretty much how all modern maps are made these days so it's not really a valid complaint. it's just that, for example, shot 1 is basically a square room. the machine mesh objects don't really seem part of the room. 
look nice and i�m pretty sure will look much better with lights!

now make a Quake remake to :p 
just need a dirtier brick texture IMHO. DOesnt have to be red but something like a higher res kingping texture. 
that's exactly what i was thinking about, now you mention it :)
like it's got 50 years of soot and grime built up. 
Nice Shots ! 
I love the architecture, particularly the mix in between old school bricks and techno-pillars... I'd really like to see it ingame with the real lighnings now ;) 
UT Stuff 
@Jago, I like the first screenshot, are those standard mesh objects or something you have created yourself? Sorry not that familiar with UT yet.

@Scampie, Are you going to create any building objects yourself or just terrain and prefabs? 
@ Sock 
All the meshes are from stock UT3.

It's actually kind of dictating the way I have to build things. If one is capable of making his own meshes and textures, it's quite easy to just map out the entire raw layout with very few CSG brushes and then just fill out the entire map with custom meshes as you see fit.

However, if you are incapable of making your own meshes and have to rely on the ones available to you, this doesn't quite work. You need to have every room and every corridor filled with at least SOME major mesh detailing pretty much from the start, because they will give you a sense of scale and since you can't make your own, you will at times be building your map around the available meshes instead of building custom meshes to suit your map. 
The editor is lacking a ton of support for custom assets, so I am limited to the assets that came with the game, and also limited by the terrain material shaders to an extent (the terrain shaders are combinations of a 'dirt' texture for horizontal areas of terrain and a 'cliff' texture for vertical areas of terrain). It's fine for this, being that I am limited on time as I intend to enter it into a contest, but I hope in the future they'll extend the tools a bit so I can do some custom models or could give a better texture selection for a more unique theme.

As you can see here, I stick to grass around the grey cliffs, as there is no blend shaders to go from sand to that specific rock (only to rather ugly brownish red desert rock cliffs) but the grass and grey rock have blends.

Also, started to add more little details with decals, which are quite nice since I can modify their opacity and color on a per decal basis. Also help alot in hiding some of the 'pixelation' of textures blending between each other at odd angles 
"The editor is lacking a ton of support for custom assets"

Sorry, but what do you mean here? UT3 doesn't support importing of custom meshes? I'm 99% sure that it does. It won't let you create those meshes inside of UnrealEd but that's not unreasonable. 
Oh, sorry, you're talking about DoW2. Never mind. :P I should have clicked on the screen shot... 
Actually :) 
It won't let you create those meshes inside of UnrealEd but that's not unreasonable.
Actually it will and can. You can convert a bunch of brushes into a mesh inside UnrealED. Never had to use that feature but it's there :) 
Willem: worked with UE3 for the past few years, know all about the wonderful pipeline you guys made for it. Sorry for not calling out that I was talking about something radically different than the subject at hand.

DoW2 editor... it's really just a terrain editor, which I'm suprised to find is actually quite limited (no per vertex editing to make cleaning up edges easy? come on), with features to paint materials and place models and decals.

No nice asset pipeline like UE3... haven't really done much real investigation into how they handle any of that, though I likely will after this map is finished, since I suspect I could at least hack around with their files, which shouldn't be too bad for publishing a completed map either, since maps are considered 'mods' and are loaded much like a Quake mod from their own directory (which does limit the ability to play custom maps in the game quite a bit as you have to start the game with "-mod XXX") 
There's really not all that much use of making models with brushes in UE3 except for prototyping things (or if you just need a simple model for an interpactor or something) 
Jago - Brutal Honesty 
Shots 1 and 2 look pretty nice but the others exemplify what I don't like about UT3 and similar games - architecturally bland, conceptually dull, with some meshes slapped around the edges to hide it. Let's see some actual brushwork, eh? Or something that will actually stress the engine. As it is, you could build it for UT99 and I'd hardly tell the difference.

Of course, that's just my crochety old-schoolness talking. 
MisMash Views 
@Jago, cool thanks for the info. The brush export thing is something that was added to D3 and was perfect for artist/modellers to get the scale of things right. Sort of standard practice nowadays to export blockout brushwork for artists to create meshes from.

@Scampie, I imagine like most games nowadays, the modding is something of an after thought which is probably why the loading system is so awkward. With decals thou the terrain should really shine and look good. Decals are awesome for covering up crap terrain edges.

@Grahf, I really don't understand the mesh hatred because even good old Q1 had meshes/map models (torches) which I see constantly used in screenshots from others work. Bashing someone because they detail their rooms with meshes is crazy and infact using meshes is more efficient in most engines because of caching/draw reasons. I understand there is a certain pride with creating things from brushes the 'old school' way but the end results are the same, IMHO it seems pointless to argue about the method. 
I Think 
he's talking about how the amount of meshes makes everything look too uniform and doesn't allow for interesting room layouts?

e.g. if you'd want to have a torch on every wall in your level, you couldn't do angled stuff (well, i'm oversimplificating here). 
actually looking at the shots, maybe he's refering to the contrast of meshes to walls. it looks basically like a box map with some models slapped in :) 
I get the impression that people are thinking that having to use existing meshes limits creativity. I strongly disagree. I don't create meshes from scratch - I use whatever the art team comes up with. All it takes is some imagination and creativity and you can come up with stuff that the art team never imagined.

"Huh, so you turned that light fixture over, scaled it up 3X and put a flower bed in it? Neat! That looks cool..." 
It Doesn't Limit Your Creativity 
but try creating a roman style castle out of that sci-fi light fixture :P 
Oh well, sure, if you want a completely different style of map I agree. But that's true of textures as well. :P 
I Think Megaman 
makes the point, or rather thats what I see to be the problem. In lots of screenies for newer engine games, rather basic architecture seems to be made up for by inserting lots of meshes when I think (purely from a non-mapper view) that meshes should augment the architecture rather than replace it. 
Meshes ARE the architecture these days. I understand that as Quake fans we are brush fiends but that doesn't fly for current gen games. Meshes are what allow you to add the necessary detail to a scene. 
Vising Woes
after turning about 25% of the map into func_walls, and cutting off about 250 hours from estimated vis time, this map will still take about 700 hours. :(

looks like i will be forced to split this map up again (it was already split into 3 before this) to separate the outdoor area from the indoor one.
such a shame because it's really cool being able to see tall landmarks while you're exploring the cliffs and such, but the map is pretty much unplayable without proper vising, so fast vis only isn't an option. :S 
The sky cut off - the brush touching the tops of the geometry?

Even if the towers in the background are higher maybe use an angled brush to close everything in.

Only seems dumb when firing rockets or grenades into it (or bumping your head from a RJump) but concessions always have to be made . . . 
Um ... that looks ... how do I put this? FUCKING AMAZING! Holy crap, man!

I assume you've tightened up the sky as much as is possible to reduce the amount of open air? 
Or, what ijed said. :P 
i've been trying all sorts of stuff and yeah, sky brushes are as tight as they can be, unfortunately, i think it really just comes down to the nature of the map itself.

in some places, you can literally see about 16000+ units far. (the default fitzquake gl_farclip of 16384 was creating gray flash).

i think i've pretty much isolated the main problem though. behind the camera in that shot is a very tall and wide tower, which has a complex interior. unfortunately, fastvis doesn't discard that interior when you're outside the tower. after my previous post, i started to realized that it's pretty much impossible to split this map up without redoing the entire thing so i'm going to try a few more things to try to block out the interior area...

in order for me to do this map, i need to have my vis time to about at the maximum 100 hours. some previous maps i've done had vis times in multiple weeks and i refuse to work like that anymore. what happens is the vis process takes so retardedly long that you just don't have the guts to make any changes and fixes even when you notice some serious problems because you know it will be another 3/4 month before you can take another look. 
Scumbag Trick . . . 
Make the tower door a teleport?

If it's already a doughnut corridor or c-bend then it shouldn't be causing so much trouble, but vis has mysterious ways.

If it's not using such a layout I'm guessing it'll be a headache to change because of the limited space. Taller with a spiral staircase maybe, although a ramp / stairs will still kick you in the vis sack.

And yeah, looks very nice. 
Oh That Looks So Nice 
could some "floating 1px away from surroundings" tricks help? I never used that as it seems a bitch with lighting but maybe if the seams are in hardly visible places it might help. 
I Mean 1 Unit Of Course. 
looks like i will be forced to split this map up again (it was already split into 3 before this) to separate the outdoor area from the indoor one. such a shame because it's really cool being able to see tall landmarks while you're exploring the cliffs and such

After you split it, you could re-create the distant landmarks in less detail for the indoor map, then when you arrive at those same structures in the outdoor map, you will recognize them. 
this may sound confused, I know nothing about the technicalities of mapping, but thats what I was kind of saying, meshes should be used to add detail. Which means the architecture its supporting would still effect the end result (ie a detailed box vs a detailed non-box). 
@ Nitin 
"this may sound confused, I know nothing about the technicalities of mapping, but thats what I was kind of saying, meshes should be used to add detail. Which means the architecture its supporting would still effect the end result (ie a detailed box vs a detailed non-box)."

It's obviously all up to the way a mapper prefers to build his things, but in a lot of games/maps, 99% of the architecture you see is actually meshes, there are several large UT3 maps sporting a grand total of 20-30 BSP brushes. In cases like this, meshes are used to add detail to the underlying architecture... which is made entirely of meshes as well. 
@ #5943 
are you referring to toilet4 - saniflush the quake multiplayer map?

Could This Be A Good Stress Test 
for parallel vis? 
probably. if you get to a point where you need some ridiculous vis testing, let me know. :P 
New Level. 
Those that frequents the Q3W boards have seen this before I guess. I'm not sure I've posted it here before, I was to have a beta out before the end of this month, but things rocked the schedule, so I don't think that will be possible. 
Shot 3 == Badass 
Necros - Visible Distance 16000+ 
So I'm guessing that you've experimented and found that putting architecture outside quake's usual +/- 4096 bounds poses no problem as long as the player can't actually get there? I find that quite interesting as I'm not aware it's ever been done on a released map before.

Also, did you know aguire's vis has a -visdist # option? That might help cut down on those extremely long traces. You would get HOM past the set number, which a light fog could hide, though I guess it would hide the skybox too which would be a shame because it's a really nice one.

Regardless, the map looks crazy cool and I want to play it. 
Necros / Hipshot 
@necros: I think the 700+ hours of vis run is not the problem, it is rather about your patience... The shot of your map look really amazing... So I would really like to play it one day ;) So what would be the problem to deliver the map in fastvis version only, as I did for "Fort Driant" ? If you don't want to wait "endlessly" for vis process, it mayight be a solution as well. Else, as suggested by inertia, parallel vis will be your friend here: you just need at least a quad core to really speed up the runtime... though... and you are not 100% sure to be freed from any HOM problem... Anyway: good luck :)

@Hipshot: nice shots, 3rd shot is indeed "badass", keep it up ! 
could some "floating 1px away from surroundings" tricks help?
what's that? o.0

anyway, i've walled off a large portion as well as removed a bunch of windows. it makes the map less open and kind of boring at times, but the changes seems to have made a huge difference so far (64h @ 28%). i just hit a string of difficult portal calculations though, so the next estimate update may be much larger...

i didn't specify, but the 700h estimate was only at 25%. it's reasonable to assume that that number would at the very least double before it hit 90%.

as for a fast vis, the problem is average 15000 wpoly + >25000 epoly in all the outdoor areas and with flickering lights, it means hundreds of lightmaps being uploaded every few frames which brings even modern machines to a crawl.
there's a lot of combat that takes place in outdoor areas too, so it sucks trying to deal with monsters when you're getting 10-20 fps with dips down to 2-5 fps whenever lightmaps change.

with fort driant, i don't really remember any really bad areas. i remember, i think it was ricky's sickbase which ran pretty bad with 12k wpoly average in the outdoor areas along the edges and that's about as slow as i think would be acceptable.

in anycase, i really don't want to can this map, so i'll keep closing off areas until it can vis with a reasonable amount of time, so you'll play it eventually, you just won't get as many cool viewpoints. :S 
So parallel vis will definitely help you to reduce vis process runtime, definitely and drastically...
Unless if you want to beat the CDA's "Worst Fullvis Runtime Ever" and get your name in the Guinees record book ;) 
The 1-unit trick involves moving detail geometry one unit away from adjacent faces to avoid or reduce their splits/polys. An non-bmodel alternative to func_walling stuff. It's not universally recommended, sometimes the end result can have just as many or even slightly more polys than without the trick.
This doesn't help with VIS, just an attempt at lowering the wpoly count. 
How come? I always thought less splits = less polys = easier VIS. 
won't the 1 unit gaps will just make more portals? portals are what's killing me atm. 
Spirit: No. VIS uses portals to determine what can be seen from where. Polys are the splits on surfaces, portals are portions of space and thus not directly related.

necros: Yes, but usually they can't be seen my many other portals unless, of course, it's a wide open and flat area. 
fair enough, didnt realise that. 

Is that 700h estimate with the multithreaded vis? If so, yikes. :) 
Necros Broke Quake. 
...AGAIN *rolls eyes* 
willem: yes, and thank god for it too.

shambler: on the bright side, you get about 4 or 5 maps instead of one! 
What Is It About Quake's Rendering Model 
that makes Vis take so goddamn long? I never really grasped that. 
Quake is meant for small to medium sized enclosed levels made of rooms and hallways and the technology was optimized for that. It's not a general purpose rendering engine, really.

So, deviate from that spec too much and you get pain. 
I understand that (from painful experience). I'm seeking technical reasons beyond "it was designed to do x not y" :) 
i also think that when qbsp is creating portals, it can't seem to deal with angled floors so it creates a bunch of small portals to approximate the shape.
when you consider terrain where you have pretty much an infinite amount of different slopes and what-have-you, you can imagine how bad it can get.

had a brief chat with aguirRe and what i understood is that you should be aiming to do all your major vis-blocking with a fast vis.
fast vis discards massive amounts of calculations that won't have to be done when you're doing a full vis.

unfortunately, a canyon, for example (or a high cliff wall that isn't flush with the ceiling) isn't enough for fast vis to work with, so it then delegates all that calculation to the full vis process which then has to iterate through everything bit by bit. 
"I understand that (from painful experience). I'm seeking technical reasons beyond "it was designed to do x not y" :)"

Well, the two seem sort of hand in hand. The technology was designed around a certain level design style (highly occluded environments with simple geometry) so it would stand to reason that any inefficiencies that didn't conflict with that goal would be left unoptimized as it doesn't stop them from shipping.

I don't know specifics but the overall gist seems fairly clear. :) 
take for example a simple square 128x128 hallway.

from what little i understand, the interior of this completely square hall is 1 leaf.

if the hallway had a 16 unit deep and 64 unit wide trough running down the center of the hall, that would be either 2 or 3 leafs.
if 2: 1 leaf for the 16x64 trough space + the hallway leaf.
if 3: 1 leaf for each side of the trough and 1 leaf for the trough from floor to ceiling.

each time there's a leaf, vis has to figure out if it's visible from another leaf.

the more complex the geometry, the more leafs there will be, hence the more calculations required.

in the case of some funky canyon with all kinds of angles everywhere, there might be say 50 leafs for a small cross-section of it. (totally guessing with arbitrary numbers here, but you get the point).

now, say you had your 128x128 hallway with a 90 degree bend in it. calculating what's visible around the corner is simple as there's only 1 leaf for each part of the hallway split by the corner.

if you had a same 90 degree corner on your canyon, vis will have to take into account the 50 leafs on one side and test each leaf against the other 50 on the other side of the corner. that's 50x50 = 2500 checks.

i don't think i'm entirely correct here, but this is the gist of it, afaik. 
there must be an engine port out there that will display leafs in-game? i know hl2 can do that which helps when optimizing with details. 
I Love All This Quake Mapping Tech Talk. 
I understand very little, but it gives me some idea of what you guys have to wrestle with. 
darkplaces can display portals, which is similar (you can infer the shapes of the leafs based on the portals) 
and as for the question of why vis takes so long...

First, imagine shaking hands with everyone in the room. With a room of 10 people, there are 90 handshakes needed. With 100 people, there are 9900 handshakes needed. So the cost of adding a person is greater with more people already in the room, it's not linear.

Vis is even worse than that, though....

Imagine you have to pass notes to everyone in the room. If people are far away your note has to be passed between many people to get to the recipient. So in a room of 10 people, 90 notes need to be passed, but each note requires an average of (say) 5 passes, that's 450 passes.

With 100 people, that's 9900 notes to pass, with an average of 50 passes per note, for 495000 passes.

Okay, but Vis is even worse than that....

Now imagine you need to send a note to everyone in the room and you need to send a copy of that note through every possible route that connects you to the recipient. That's pretty much what vis does.

This exponential growth far outpaces the geometric growth of CPU power in the last twelve years.

This is why vis seems best suited for smaller, less detailed, less open maps. The exponential growth can take something that seems trivial (2 minute vis) and turn it into something insane (200 hour vis) over a relatively small growth in map complexity (say, 4x the geometric details.) 
Big O Notation 
For people who know some computer science, particularly complexity theory, it's worth considering just how complex vis is to process. If you have n leafs, then you need to make n*n visibility tests. But don't be fooled into thinking that makes it O(n^2).

The problem is that one visibility test consists of seeing if ANY of the other n-2 leafs lie in-between the two leafs you are testing. The two bits of good news:

1) If you find any leaf which totally separates the two leafs, then you can stop. Obviously this is more beneficial in maps where line-of-sight is blocked.

2) You only need to look as far as the common node of the two leafs in the bsp tree. Anything on the other side of the separating plane at the node above can't come between the two leafs you are testing.

The latter point is helpful for leafs which are close together, as it should mean that they also near on the bsp tree. However, the problem for open maps in 1) is made worse by 2). Once you start having two leafs which can see each other from a great distance away, you have a huge chunk of the bsp to test in order to verify that they can see each other, and you have to test it all.

So I think in the worst case, like a big open subdivided cube where every leaf sees every other one, you have to conclude that vis is O(n^3), which is why it gets so much longer as you make the maps larger. In the worst case, that means doubling vis time every time you increase the leafs by 25%.

Disclaimer: I did not refer to any of the source code for the above code, it's all just off the top of my head, so correct me if anything is inaccurate 
Or What Metl Said 
ah and Scapie you never been a good Quake mapper why try wo2 or what the fucking name is?

get a life out of the internet?
stop been a stupid fuck? 
Don't rise to it. He's clearly drunk and been turned down by the mrs for the 700th day running... 
Holy. Shit.

How does that play into parallelization? Would a map consisting of one huge open area not benefit much from multiple threads? 
Trinca: Wrong Thhread :P 
About VIS 
metlslime explanation is quite clear, and well depicted: vis process is a recursive algorithm. checking the code you can easily see it... However the stop condition is pretty unclear to me, still today.
It explains why it is exponentially runtime consuming regarding the map geometry... the more portals/volume you have the worst the runtime will be. The only way to improve it is "donuts" vis blocking, and map occlusion, in order to cut the map into pieces, and limit the number of branches in the recursive tree... though...
I don't whether it would be possible to rework the Quake engine to make it working with 3D GFX in order to let it in charge of the map rendering.. As far as I understood, today the Quake engines are software rendering only.. or am I wrong ? Please correct me if so..

PS: Please read me correctly, I don't want to port Quake up to nowadays engine level complexity... The fun with Quake is that it is easy to map for. Being able to build beautiful maps with lot of limitations inherited from the game engine makes the fun, else if it would have been possible since the very beginning to do giant wide open map, I think it would have been that fun... my 2 cents ;) 
Errata.. Sorry 
...I think it would NOT have been that fun.... 
Shambler, Go Map 
yes yes 
Shambler, i don't even understand half of what they're talking about myself, and look how many maps I made. it's no wonder they were all so small. 
The Devil Is In The Detail 
Really I don't understand why it has not been done for Q1 yet, DETAIL BRUSHES!

All these crazy VIS times would just go away as the compiler would work with simple shapes again. Lets face it, all of the latest Q1 engines everyone uses are so far away from the original Q1 spec, why not just add a special new detail brush switch? So people can go nuts and create crazy angled stuff.

@Trinca, terrible comment. >:( 
sock I had worse comments on some of my maps and i didn�t deserved or died... 
"Shambler, i don't even understand half of what they're talking about myself, and look how many maps I made. it's no wonder they were all so small."

Well, that was part of the beauty of Quake. You didn't HAVE to know any of that stuff to produce a map. As long as you had a copy of VIS.EXE, you were good to go. :)

"All these crazy VIS times would just go away as the compiler would work with simple shapes again. Lets face it, all of the latest Q1 engines everyone uses are so far away from the original Q1 spec, why not just add a special new detail brush switch? So people can go nuts and create crazy angled stuff. "

It's not the engines that need to support that, it's the tools. I tried to add detail brushes to QBSP but that code is, quite honestly, a god damned nightmare. It's a horrid mess and I wasn't able to figure out what to do to make it work fully. 
I wasn't able to figure out what to do to make it work fully

I believe the solution involves a large mallet... 
Detail Brushes 
Would be like mapper crystal meth. 
Compiler Tools 
@Willem, the source code for the Q3 compiler tools is publicly available, can't it help with the detail brush problem with the Q1 tools?

I still think the engine will need some changes, the AI will certainly need to know about the detail brushes, with maybe some monster clip so they have a simple brush hull as well.

I know Q1 mappers want to create crazy angle stuff but waiting 700hrs for a compile to finish is just barking mad! :P 
I'm Sure Somebody Must Be Getting Tired Of Me Saying This. 
But, detail brushes have been done in Quake. Firstly, the Quest compilers have them. They would feel incredibly primitive compared to aguire's tools however.

If you have a PowerPC Mac (hah!), then there's a port of said tools with some added features: (same tools, just more compatible compression)

I'm guessing that Willem was looking at the source of one of these?

Finally, here's a fascinating possibility I found, from the q3map2 readme:

2.5.4 (2003-04-01)

- New: support for Quake 1, Quake 2, Half-Life, Unreal, and UT2K3.
On BSP/-light/-vis, use the -game argument: -quake1 -quake2 -hl -unreal -ut2k3

I have not tested this, and I don't know what it actually means, but there it is, q1 support in q3map2. If it could actually output q1 bsp format, and not just take it as input, then that would almost certainly be the best solution for cutting compile times. 
More Vis Stuff 
estimate jumped up to 260h last night so i canceled again.

going to try something else now. i've selected clumps of terrain that are roughly the same height and i chopped all the tops of them off and turned them into func_walls.

this should hopefully preserve shadows a bit but will make the terrain have common planes instead of all different slopes.

if this isn't enough, i'll do the same for all the ground terrain which will be probably 10x more work but should yield good results. it also won't really affect shadows as it's the floor. 
At which percentage did it jump up? Just asking because VIS tend to get slower the further it progresses.

Autist optimization tip: load the prt file with Gtkradiant's prtview plugin and arrange the brushes/portals orderly. 
I think, since the main issue is vis times, the best approach is making changes to the vis process in ways which result in a backwards-compatible bsp file. Rather than making a new bsp format. 
DoW2 Map Beta 


To play the map, follow these installation instructions:

Download the Zip file.

Extract the contained 2p_mirage.sga file to:
C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\dawn of war 2\GameAssets\Mods\

Make a new shortcut to play Dawn of War 2 (in steam, right click on DoW2 and go to 'Desktop Shortcut')

Go to the properties of the shortcut and add
-mod 2p_mirage
to the end of Target section.

Play the game with this shortcut and you will see the map in the drop down list when creating a game.

A few notes:
Base areas are not detailed yet, I'm lazy.
Much of the surrounding terrain isn't detailed yet either.
Haven't done an optimization pass or a fully baked lighting pass yet, which may increase the framerate of the map, but shouldn't really matter much since it's not that bad at the moment anyway (that I've noticed!)
Minimap needs some work.

Not sure how many radical changes I'd be willing to make, but it'll likely be few. Most of the time I hope to spend between now and the Sunday night deadline is cleaning up major issues, finishing up detail work, and baking lighting. 
Didn't The Competition Rules 
State 'no sharing this outside of relic' or similar? 
The rule was clarified to be "Any map published and shared previous to the annoucement of this contest isn't allowed".

They fully expected and wanted people to have their maps tested. What they didn't want was anyone taking an already finished map previous to the contest and entering it. 
Fair Enough 
Full Circle 
@scampie, The screenshots look really cool with all the plants and cliff sections but I have to confess not having played the game (DOW) I have no clue what stuff in those screenshots are your creation. Which nicely brings me to a nice tangent or 'shoe on the other foot' situation.

I recently posted screenshots of map stuff on an art portal/site, they branded me a cheat for posting stuff which they thought belonged to others and cast me out. Fair enough I suppose because they did not understand or could not work out easily from my screenshots what was my stuff. It is certainly strange seeing this situation from their perspective with your DOW screenshots. 
that razor sharp waterline hurts my eyes but I guess there's nothing you can do about it? never played dow. 
Looks nice ! 
I Want To Lick It 
Awkward Angles 
I want those textures. 
The cracked, semi-dry ground in that second shot is awesome. Haven't seen that look pulled off so well in Q3 before. 
Litter Problem 
Another update on detail:

@zwiffle, the textures are mostly standard ID, nothing special.
@pjw, thanks :D 
Floor Looks Amazing 
in last shot. 
Upstairs Downstairs 
The room above previous teleporter pit: 
Given the aesthetic quality of the rest of the map, that brick / diagonal cutoff as the floor wraps around the octagonal hole bugs me a lot. 
there is trim there. Maybe it should be raised up to imply the diagonal-cut stones are covered by a strip of wood.

On the other hand, go map! 
Stone Alignment 
That sort of minor misalignment used to bug me too, then I looked at laid stone in the real world and realized that it almost never matches up perfectly like a power of 2 sized texture... It's not that hard to cut stone to fit. 
New Stone 
Just make sure to clip it :D 
it's amazing how little things like that end up looking awesome. :) 
Oh My Gosh 
i wish that would be converted to q1sp

clockwork droid textures are fun. :) 
Love The Door-arch 
Criminally Underused Textures 
But you've done them justice with some very clean angular curvy brushwork. I can visualize how it all fits together and it is a thing of beauty. The grating in the middle is a nice touch, even if its color does clash a little with the muted speedbz trim around it. I would love to see another sublevel below where the floor of cabling is now, just to really drive home the feeling of vertigo, but perhaps that would be pushing the portal count a bit. ;) The only thing I don't understand is the square rods seemingly coming off the ceiling; maybe they make more sense from a different angle, I just can't see what they are doing.

Altogether, it looks sexy and I want to play it. You are a mapping machine, necros, and I'm glad someone is still holding the torch for q1sp in 2009.

Also, it's my new desktop background. 
Nice shots ! The architecture is cool ! Go map and release it ;) 
I find them a bit....a bit blatant? Like they're trying to be too industrial...

How is this map breaking Quake then necros? Or is it the same one? 
my major complaint about clockwork droid is that they're a little limited. it's either trim or squares. no rectangles or triangles. i really love the ikbase set for that.
as a result, i've mixed in metl's obtex and speedbaze. the borders between external tgas @ 2x res and normal 1x res palettized textures is sometimes a little obvious, but i can live with it because i find the oblivion textures too blue and the speedbaze textures too dark and brown on their own.

in anycase, this map was originally going to be the second map of the three i was planning to do.
i'm working on this while i perform some vis tests on the other one. 
Clockword Droid 
beautiful textures but I have to say that most maps that I have seen with them tend to look the same. That might be because of what necros says above but it does seem like they were textures created for a particular map already built. 
necros, what is the idea behind the map? is the structure part of something? 
it's a giant machine. the area in the screenshot is the very top (or back) of the machine and it's purpose it to drill into the ground.
after the drilling has been done, and the machine moves downwards, workers at the top would then build a smaller metal passage way anchored to the sides of the shaft that was dug. (you can see the rebar of the unfinished metal tube that grahf was asking about)
it was built in a hurry by mercenaries hence the exposed machinery and wiring. 
Necros, OMG that is awesome :D I was half expecting the usual 'oh its just a series of platforms with a hole in the middle' but you actually have a reason for it all, total respect :D I love the history to it as well. 
yeah, i normally don't really do that, but i was reading WoT when i started, and i felt it could be interesting to come up with a history and a series of events before the player even gets there. 
I Always 
Try and come up with something to stop myself losing interest - just laying brushes. 
Every Map Should Have That Kind Of Backstory 
makes the environments feel so much more believable. 
The trouble with back story is how to tell the player about it. Players don't read text files and they don't like text on the screen so you pretty much have to tell it visually these days. Give them information via environmental clues and let them fill it in, IMO. 
I'm not sure I approve of pandering to idiocy and an inability to process non-spoonfed concepts... 
I think we're off track. What I'm saying is that people like to process things visually. Show me blood splattered on the walls, some dead bodies, a shattered computer monitor and a word scrawled in blood - I'll figure out what happened. I don't want to read a text file explaining what happened in that room, necessarily.

How is that pandering to idiocy? 
I Wrapped 
What I had for warp up and bundled it anyway. The kind of elaborate set pieces you describe were missing though. I'd see that as more Doom3 territory - drag marks and so on.

Having said that I'm experimenting with some npc ideas, and map objects are always useful. 
What Do You Think ... 
Large screenshots so you can have a good look.
(take off the _1024 for smaller)

What do you think the central object is?

I ask this question because the object does have a function as part of a puzzle but I have been trying for several days to make it graphically recognizable to its purpose. (This is version 3 btw)

So what is it? What do you think it does? 
My guess would be that you need to "use" or shoot the 2 generators in order to open the door?

Still looking nice sock :) 
Clearly there's that little plus sign up top, is that an electrical thingy? So you have to turn off the other Frankenstein thing on the side to make ...something... happen?

My advice is to make it as fantastical and devilish as possible. Unfortunately, most interesting generating equipment is behind a steel plate or in multiple levels of containment (fission reactors) and they just don't look exciting! 
looks like some kind of battery or something. i can see wires from the other electrical things going into it, but it's hard to see in just a screen shot. sound effects and any animation helps a lot on puzzles.

i see another wire going to the big portcullis so i would assume whatever the machine is, it controls the door.

the texture on the central battery is very dark so i can barely see any details on it. consider a lighter shade of gray metal? 
Gas Oven 
Re: Backstory 
i think it isn't important if the player "gets it". It's important for the mapper, so he doesn't just throw random shit around. Makes stuff way harder though. 
Exactly, and the player does actually benefit from this, because the world is coherent even if it's not all explained directly to the user. This coherence makes the immersion stronger. 
Umm, I was certainly expecting some odd comments but no one really hit the nail on the head and said battery, which is what I was aiming for. I am really tempted to take my gf suggestion and simply write 'Duracell' down the side in a gothic font, but I will try some more visual clues instead. 
It seems I am going blind and necros mentioned battery, oh well maybe time for some fresh air and a walk outside my cave ...

Style's on the inside is pretty much locked now. Palette and color-vise that is. problem is now, that the outsides looks pretty so-so, mostly because of lightning, that's is what's holding the public alpha off release.

@ Sock, you know, why don't you create a small Duracell rabbit, in your color style and place it on the batteries? =) 
That looks good.

And Sock, maybe make the batteries at the back wider, with more of the vertical slat pieces on the front - to suggest car battery more.

Just an idea. 
That is the best Quake 1 Singleplayer episode I think I've ever seen. Good work. Because it BETTER BE A QUAKE 1 SINGLE PLAYER EPISODE. No more Quake 3 maps. Thx. :D 
Haha, don't worry- Good thing I don't post that often =)=) I guess =)
To be honest, it feels a bit bad posting Quake3 stuff here, it's like posting HL2 stuff on a HL1 forum... 
i mean, a lot of us would prefer if it was q1 because then we'd actually be able to play it as opposed to just looking around, but it's always nice to see well-made stuff, regardless of what game it is. 
It'll Be Going 
On my office lan 
Do Not Stop Posting Q3 Stuff Please 
Now how do we manage to make Hipshot and sock a couple? 
I Assumed 
they already were <3 
Yeah, maps from any game are fine really. As was said, it's fun to look at nicely made stuff regardless of what engine it's in. Quake1 is preferred, obviously, but not mandatory. 
Quake1 is preferred, obviously, but not mandatory.

I love that there's a place where that's true! 
A Map Yo 
Oh Interesting 
I like the arched window detail.

That's Q1 rite? :P 
Looks Super Clean 
and kind of like, drab in a good way. 
I Was Gonna Say 
Put some rubbish mapobjects in the corners - rotting wet newspaper, piles of ash and stones, maybe a scorch mark here or there. 
Very nice ! Add details here and there (crates, pipes, barrels, etc... ) and it will be top notch :) 
Kind of has an Unreal Tournament kind of feel to it. I forget the name of the map, but I'm thinking of the one in the parking garage... 
2009-09-08 00:39:25 (@megmn):
2009-09-08 00:39:36 (@megmn): kaz's latest stuff looks nice
2009-09-08 00:39:40 (@megmn): so solid
2009-09-08 00:39:41 (@Zwiffle): that's pleasant
2009-09-08 00:41:12 (@Fjoggs): looks rctw'ish
2009-09-08 00:41:18 (@Fjoggs): *rtcw 
Be Careful 
with the details though. i like the general sizes of the larger brushwork-the solidness-but the details have a bit of the 'brushes that don't look right' feeling. If that makes sense et all. 
What Texture Set Is That? 
reminds me of a cementized version of q1met. :P 
Thx For The Replies! 
The horizontally ruled cement is from ET, the wood is from RTCW, the rest are mine. Anything not mine will be replaced before anything is re-done before I release anything, I just need placeholders because texture stuff is tedious! :D 
I Can't Type 
"will be replaced before I release anything." ..... 
Thanks For The Vis Explanation Way Up There ^ 
I'd always wondered why it was such a cause of pain. 
More Wood ... 
u rock btw, awesome warm looking woods and pro shading 
The second shot is -spectacular-! 
That's nice! 
How Much Of That Is Modeled After Reference Photos? 
Started with a lift shaft and a junction room and merged them into each other. The woodwork design is based on my memories of wood beam structures in cellars and under floor boards. Took me a long time to find the look I wanted and lighting, many versions. I know it is not perfect, but it is interesting enough for a connecting space. 
I Can't Find Any Fault With That 
Except maybe having a hanging lamp type thing in the centre. 
Lovely Lovely Texturing There 
Another Puzzle Room 
Something For Fun...

did this on saturday, it's e1m1 -> e1m7 glued together in one giant map (minus e1m8 because it would have required a mod to get the gravity to work).

i kept my own mapping down to a minimum and only built two very small areas to help connect the maps together, but apart from that, the exits from previous maps connect directly to the entrance for the next map.

in particular, it's cool to be able to run all the way across e1m2 to e1m5 and back.

eventually, i want to paste the medieval and metal DM maps in as well and connect everything into a very non-linear single map and basically double up on monsters to bring it more in line with modern difficulty levels or something, but i wanted to put this out first in it's original form.

have fun. :P 
Should have required a dedicated news thread !!! 
well, it's nothing new as it's just the maps we all know. i just thought it was cool to be able to move freely about between them, but i guess it's less cool to everyone else, lol ^_^ 
Looking forward to play this!!!!

But I'm @ office and Fruitz Of Dojo's Gl Quake crashes badly. Fitzquake 0.80 the same.

Can't wait to get home! 
you'll need fq 0.85 atleast :(

goes over quite a few limits, clipnodes, edicts, faces, etc...
the funny thing is that it only takes 7 minutes for a full level 4 vis (the whole thing is about 7300 brushes). just goes to show how huge a difference it makes when you have maps designed like id vs maps with outdoors or terrain or whatever. 
*gives Necros A Facial* 
haha this is really cool necros!!! i played up until the third map, got kinda boring - same old thing we've played 100 times already. but it was neat seeing each new map joined up. goes to show how far we've come that we can glue an entire id episode into 1 map!

if your joining more up, you should do a mass find/replace on the textures and replace them all to more modern textures. that'd look cool. 
Noticed A Few Bugs... 
perhaps these bugs are actually in the source .map files as well, but i noticed a couple of wrong textures (e1m1 first platform down, floor of e1m2 hallway with quad) and some misalignments (e1m1 slipgate front.) 
any misaligned textures that are off by an even amount (like 32 or 64) are probably caused by me.

the import map function in sikkpin's editor is kind of iffy. it's supposed to import a map into the same position as it's source is in, but sometimes it picks random positions to import to.
this means that just turning on texture lock isn't enough because the map is imported with incorrect texture coords.

also, e1m3 was rotated 270 degrees. it's the reason there's a hallway between e1m3 and e1m4.
rotating the map screwed up all the doors and func_trains (of which e1m3 had a few iconic ones) so when i came to e1m4, instead of rotating it, i left it alone and made the hall.

anyway, yeah, it gets boring after a while cause there's nothing new.

anyway, taking a break on my other q1 maps, so now, using this as a base, i want to do something similar to the kind of thing we saw in doom maps like e3m9 (which was e3m1 reversed) or plutonia map 32 which was map01 from doom2 but with added areas. 
someone make it news!

You are an ass, necros. At least you could have said "this took a month and was really hard work". Or screw up something (the secret lift at the start of the underwater houses map did not work for me). You are awesome.

Skill 3: 
Necros you are fast as a bullet! nice work

I lost all my interesing on mapping, plus people dont like much my maps anyway(to dark, to blocky, to linear) so why loose time with then?

Email some friends some time ago to ask what they think of the map in progress... if i should finish this map or not and they even didn�t respond...

One of those friends I�m a little disappointed... didn�t expected this attitude from him, but this is internet and nobody is nobody friend this is just the proof!!!

I think nobody cares, so why should i care? if anyone want to finish this for a speed map be my guest!

"I lost all my interesing on mapping, plus people dont like much my maps anyway(to dark, to blocky, to linear) so why loose time with then?"

Because you enjoy it? Don't map to please other people, map because you want to. 
You're mapping for others you will lose interest. 
In The Beginning 
most people create maps for themselves and friends and usually have a blast showing off their new found skills, but mapping is no easy journey. If you don't listen to feedback from others, accept changes to your maps or want to learn new ways to map (design and visually) then it will seem tedious after a while. 
ok, I also lost interress in this map... :\ dind�t run as I espected... that also helped! 
Actually fitz0.85 does not work, as I have a Host error: too much edicts, as edicts exceeds 1024...
aguirRe's GLQuake (v1.31) is working fine OTOH) so I've been able to play it :)
Anyway, thanks a lot for this cool stuff !!!

PS: I'm just wondering how interseting it would be to group map per theme (base / medieval / runic) using the same idea you used for episode 1... Maybe using Quoth for gravity change and new monster add-on.. a kind of "Quothed" Quake Theme Remake ;) 
you must manually set max_edicts in fitzquake.

start fq085, go in the console and type max_edicts 8192, now you should be able to load the level. (this also means you need to use sv_protocol 666) 

but I tried it and must admit it is good first stage of level mapping.
I found a leak and 73 warnings and deleted the leak.
And one thing stands..., map only when you're in love with it, not for others. Otherwise you'll loose.

here's the demo and map: 
Madfox this have to do with versions...

The map dont have warnings and leaks I garantie you this :) 
Thanks a lot for the clue: I was not aware it was working like this ;)

Note for myself: add set max_edicts 2048 in my cfg file :P 
I love quake id maps. Thank's for this compilation :)
I have a demo if anyone bothers. 
that's what i have in my main autoexec in id1. i always force sv_protocol to be 666 as well as max_edicts. (a few other things like gl_farclip and other things i can't think of)

tbh, i don't really understand the point of max_edicts... why not just have maximum edicts of 8192 be attached to protocol 666, since that's probably one of the reasons you're running 666 anyway, instead of 15. 
Did E1 always have this many Fiends on skill 2? Being trapped by four fiends between E1M2 and E1M3 with the lousy early weapons, and no Quad, was pretty refreshing... 
- you can go all the way up to 8192 edicts with protocol 15, it's only when passing that number that you need a new protocol (actually it can still work in protocol 15 but you will only hear sound effects from the first 8192 entities)

- fitz 0.80 can handle edicts up to 8192, 0.85 raised the limit to 32000

- the reason i didn't just set a really high default is there is a memory cost to having a huge edicts array even if it's not all used. it's not a big deal for modern computers but it does mean increasing your heapsize, which not everyone knows about. 
I Also Noticed... 
...aguirRe's GLQuake v1.33 crashes my laptop at office: it enters an infinite loop somewhere and stuck the game (screen frozen, and buzzing sound).
fter some research on the internet, it seems it comes from the video card that does not like that much GL stuff... but why is it working fine with FitzQuake, and why is it working fine with GLQuake v1.31 ? Mystery.... 
Yeah, ATI Sucks. 
That sounds like the choke that newer versions of FitzQuake (higher than 0.80) perform on my Macbook. After a few seconds, hard lock. The Macbook has an ATI card so that might explain it. 
I�ve got a ATI850 Pro now and fitzquake dont work... got the screen all fuckedup!

joequake also got some problems with the command -bpp

Qrack that is based on joequake works perfect...

I need to try darkplaces and some others but I�m not having any time at home for nothing! 
Grates And Swirly Things ... 
Sock / Spirit 
@ Sock: Looks nicer and nicer everyday day !!

@Spirit: Am I dreaming or are there shots using Doom3 textures at the bottom of the thumbnails? 
these textures: ?

they look like ogro textures or something similar to them, anyway. definitely not d3 though. 

#6122 posted by peopedontcaretounderstand [] on 2009/09/28 16:05:45
Necros you are fast as a bullet! nice work

I lost all my interesing on mapping, plus people dont like much my maps anyway(to dark, to blocky, to linear) so why loose time with then?

Email some friends some time ago to ask what they think of the map in progress... if i should finish this map or not and they even didn�t respond...

One of those friends I�m a little disappointed... didn�t expected this attitude from him, but this is internet and nobody is nobody friend this is just the proof!!!

I think nobody cares, so why should i care? if anyone want to finish this for a speed map be my guest!


definitely you're should finish it, i think this one could be very cool dm map 
Screenshot Overdose 
Don't seem to get much/any feedback here nowadays, not sure why, maybe you are all sick to death of my screenshots, who knows!

Anyway someone requested a look at the gameplay logic for the puzzles I have created so here is another screenshot to confuse everyone, again.

oh the silence :p 
sock you editor is like chinese language but your map rocks...

go finish it! 
I like the shader effect in the second pic, like some sort of beaming device. 
tbh, i *hate* the purple electrical shader. it doesn't go with anything at all. and not in the 'it makes a contrast with the wood and stone' way but more in the 'it looks like shit' way.
sorry. :S
(the light blue looks fine though as it works well with the yellow lamps)

also, in order for me to make those comments i had to copy/paste your images into photoshop and use the following settings for Levels: 0 1.0 100
they are nearly pitch black to me otherwise.

also, is it sp playable? you said it was for (and i can see that it is) q3. 
The brightness is fine but I agree about the purple colour. It does not fit very well. 
i only commented on brightness to explain why i hadn't bothered to comment. 
Good Feedback 
@necros/spirit, no need to say sorry, this is exactly the sort of feedback I want. Visual problems, things people don't like or like. (really interested in the stuff people don't like more)

I have switched out all the magenta stuff (these were the original ID textures). Toned down the reds and switch more to pastel blues and light yellows.

The blue stuff is really a visual clue/highlight thing for the player so they know exactly what they should be looking for. This is especially critical for the puzzles because the majority of the level has a brown/yellow palette.

This is not designed for bots, there is no bot file, no DM setup, no multiplayer weapons or item balance. This map is purely about puzzles (sadly a bit simple due to entity restrictions) and level exploration. There are 5 puzzle machines, based on timing and sequence order solving. There are 10 secrets and a small story (readme style) for anyone that cares to open the readme file. The map has a full ambient soundscape with alot of custom made sounds to fit the workings of the machines and environment.

I tried the screenshot settings you suggested and it was like glowing to me but I am on laptop in a room without no direct sunlight (not a bright office). I will produce two versions of the map, a light and dark version. One probably for me and other cave dwellers and one twice as bright for everyone else.

If anyone else has more visual feedback please say so, good or bad, but more bad if possible. 
my comment about screenshots being dark wasn't that you needed to make the map brighter. i was just explaining why i wasn't commenting (too much work to bring it in PS all the time).

in-game, we have gamma and brightness settings for that, so if it's dark, i can easily pump that up. no need for 2 map versions. sorry for the confusion. 
Comment before aobut having a chandelier type structure was to avoid the classic hex light textures you've got there. They don't look bad, but I've seen them so often that the make me think 'basic map' when the geometry you've got says exactly the opposite.

Maybe just changing the texture would work - how about Q1 runic ;) 
Cosmetic Textures 
Just a quick update on the visuals, trying to reduce the overall brown/dark palette of the level with lighter stone and make the cables more obvious so that the player can hopefully realise they are a visual clue. The level is mostly finished at this point, just need to fix up all the cosmetic stuff before a public beta. 
Brilliant. I like the contrast in texture and feel. 
Still looking great, but I think the wires are too thick. Maybe they're meant to be like huge thick bundles of wire or something but they look a bit odd. 
Large Is Better! 
@zwiffle, I know you are going to groan but the cable size and the oversize giant machinery is all by design. I wanted to create something where the people that built the place have worked out high tech but not been able to shrink anything down to micro sizes. Door, switches, pipes are all crazy big and made of large amounts of wood!

@willem, thanks :D 
What, those wires transport some fuckton of energy. I guess you are just jealous seeing those thick lines. 
i can see everything clearly, whether it was intentional or not. :)

i have no problem with the thick cables and i'm a big fan of the sort of 'old stuff and someone built new stuff in it' type of theme.
great detailing on the bricks, having them broken up and different heights like that.
is that a cave under the wooden circular floor? 
Wooden Holes 
@necros, yeah there is a cave like area below with broken walls, plants and a strange blue glow from a portal device at the far end... 
that new stone wall doesn't look right, you lost the brown wood feel. 
it looks great, you haven't lost the feel at all in my opinion, the thick chords look good - it would look dumb with skinny little wires.
And I totally hope that is a cave. 
Count Me In 
as one of those that preferred the more wood feel. hmm, that didnt come out right. nor did that actually :) 
As Long As 
the barks don't touch! 
I'm trying a terrain map with dxf.mdl as hillows. 
that definitely looks like a madfox map. 
$Null Posted At Q3w 
Idle Switches 
Some changes in lighting and detail, I think the map still maintains a nice warm colour palette even with the white stone. 
Nice, sock! The broken floor is a nice effect. 
Different Direction 
Trying a new art direction with some higher resolution photo sourced textures. Any good? 
wood is good
stone step texture is good
square stone floor texture is not. i felt that the orange floor was an integral part of the theme you had going. 
Square Stone Floor Texture 
is good but not for this map IMHO. The standard one worked just fine. 
wish i lived there 
I'll be your BFF if you can get that to compile. 
Mountain Air Freshness 
A quick experiment with Terragen and cloud layers.

necros,nitin: I sort of liked the fact is was not brown! but the photo source had a lot of visual errors so I will create another version. 
Those mountains always look like they are from cheap 90s music videos. :(

The clouds are nice though.

The floor might work the other way around, bricks lower and wood on top of it. 
@grahf - It's part of the cave sector in arcus. The mountain thing are dxf.mdl Tried a realvis last night, but instead of 1� houres I woke up unfinnished 8 houres later. 
Those mountains always look like they are from cheap 90s music videos.

yes. :( using the stock procedurals on the heightmap is easily identifiable as just that. 
Its The Edge Of Forever 
put nothing there but sky ... maybe 
you are too good, please stop. I actually liked the new stone texture too. Spirit is right about those mountains though. 
Cheap 80's Videoclips... 
...gotta love them! 
that is so fucking awesome 
should make movies with peter jackson! 
Thats a madfox video alright...

Love it 
reservoirdogs - shot in stomach didn't do it
pulpfiction - cleaning up the body garage
city of sin - the quark thing castrated
hellboy - wait my ceberius gets kittens
undead knights have foun my OrbFactory! 
Is That 
a tron bit in the teleport? 
I like how what you're gonna do next is so unpredictable Madfox. Looks cool, vaguely doom1ish scifi (perhaps influenced by your hangar conversion). 
Grrl's Place 
After a big round I took the startlevel of Quake3 and converted it into Quake1. So in fact it is only the place where the first income of Quake3 starts.
This with the thing in mind, that if I want to use Orb, it must have found a way to get to Quake 1.
In this way I use the Q3 start level (make it more look like Q3 but those low bit tex), to get to the orbetrayel Q2 start level into Q1.

In addition I made a kind of factory where the Orb is constructed in parts. (thanks Wazat!)

@meTch- that's an nanimation with stars, no teleporter. I know it looks that way, but I admit it is hard to recognize the Q3 startlevel with other textures. 
I really like the look of this.
Its a style that I would like to perfect. 
Sock, there's a couple of points where the joins on the front of the step textures don't match up with the top of the step textures. Just FYI. Obviously it looks great in general. 
Screen shot of where the new version of my editor is headed:

Floating texture browser and additional control schemes are my current focus... 
Now That Is Good News! 
additional control schemes will be nice :) i had a hard time getting used to the default one and never really liked it much. 
Just More Experimentation...

this is actually the same ne_melee mod from before with the sword. there's 3 classes now, this one is of the archer/healer. 
That's Pretty Cool. 
Awesome how the gameplay feels so different than q. The player model has nice animations, just the walk-in-a-circle animation sucks ;-) 
Nearly Finished ... 
Hi, here are some screenshots of the map I'm still working on from time to time.
It's nearly finished.

Tower 1

Plasma Gun area

Yellow Armour area

Rocket Launcher area

Haste area

Red Armour area

Railgun area

Tower 2

It's a FFA / TDM map for 3 to 12 players. 
looks ace, although very reminiscent of qfraggel 2 and 3. deliberate?? 
:) Yes, nobody else is using my texture set, so I thought I'll reuse it. I pimped the textures a little bit though and created a few new ones. I just don't have the time to do a totally new texture set at the moment ... 
That Looks Fucking Cool :D 
Nice work 
Comments On Above Map 
The brushwork looks cool, the color choices I pretty much completely disagree with though. 
I think I've only seen one other map with that texture set apart from qfraggel3.

But some of the brushwork reminds me of qfraggel2 too. 
looks good to me, but i'm not a fan of those light sprites that simulate lens flare. :S 
Jago: Yes, I know it's not everybodies taste, but mine ;)

necros: The lens flares only show in lightmap mode. 
it's quake 3 right? what other lighting technique is there? 
Necros: It's just vanilla Quake 3 Arnea lighting (q3mapo2 though). Nothing else. It's just the textures with prerendered lighting. And they are quite a few years old. 
I Think He Was Referring To Your Comment 
that you only see lens flares in lighmtap mode and was asking what other mode of display there is in q3. I assume you were referring to vertex lighting or whatever the crappy lighting mode is in which the lens flare wont show. 
Oops ... 
Thanks nitin, you're right.

necros: Sorry man, and yes, there is lightmap mode and vertex lighting.

I'll post a beta on quake3forum the next days I think if somebody wants to have a look. 
Texture/lighting Update 
Looks like a UT map now, thats a good thing :) 
Those Broken Bricks Are A Nice Touch 
thats not texturing is it? 
@Daz, Im not sure I understand, it looks like a UT map? because of the textures? architecture? lighting?

@Nitin, Im confused again, what broken bricks? Are you talking about the last screenshot I posted? 
wall to left of archway. And it's also in the wall behind the archway. 
Yeah that is texture detail, I have nearly replaced all the ID textures with my own photo sourced (they are not from cgtextures) ones. A new collection of stone, metal, wood and marble. I just got a couple left and the 2 light fixtures. 
i'm digging your photosourced textures, very crisp and fresh. I wanna bang that screenshot like a screen door in a hurricane. 
I think its a mixture of the lighting and textures, it all looks very Unreal Tournament alike, hard to put a finger on what it is exactly, but when I look at screenshots of a map without hud/weapons shown, I can pick out the UT engine map before any others, as they have a certain "vibe" to them.

Your map has this vibe also. Its like its clean and clinical while still having broken and rough edges.

Looking forward to having a run around 
clean and clinical while still having broken and rough edges
that doesn't make sense, lol! :D
but to me, the map looks well-made, and cleanly contructed (which is maybe what you meant, daz?).
even though there will be nothing to kill, i'm eager to play it in q3 anyway just for the puzzles and such (and to see all the cool sights, of course) :) 
At The Clinic 
Ummm, well the map does not have any litter or dirt in corners, so I suppose it is clean for a castle environment. Partly my own fault by changing the textures to something more realistic, the colour tone and detail has changed the mood of the map. Maybe it is time for me to start creating decal textures! :)

Yeah there is nothing to kill, just puzzle machinery and exploration. It certainly won't be everyone's cup of tea but hopefully there are a few people here who like puzzle stuff. 
More Stone 
i don't know why, but the wood under the windows in the middle looks awful to me. like it's really low rez and fuzzy or something.

either turn it into stone, or make it look more weathered/old. 
I don't mind the wood under the windows so much as the windows themselves. I don't think they fit stylistically.

The roofs and the trim under the roofs are bad ass though, very cool. 
Good eaves.

And I like the windows. A bit square of frame maybe, but the style works well. 
i didn't mention it, but the trim all around the lower edge looks great. i love that kind of technical attention to detail. 
I Love It 
Thats all I got to say. Great work sock. 
Give Me That Thing! 
something yells inside me for that rich detail you come up with that Q3engine and the perfekt way you make profit with it sock!

otherwise I thank myself for permitting me only to Q1 mapping because for the benefit of getting that final touch I blame myself a lot of learning before giving advise.

uh..., pfew..., Gaudix? 
I agree with Orl and Madfox :)
V. nice work. If anything the wood could look as old/dark as the windowframes. But really it looks fantastic. The Tudor style architecture looks fantastic 
Wow a lot of comments, this screenshot for me was about the new stone bricks, the rest of it I've seen for a while now.

@necros, The bit under the windows is seating, can't really see from this angle, but at player height it is a lot better, less fuzz.
@madfox, I am not sure what you are saying, you seem excited about q1? /shrug
@nonentity, yeah the eaves are a good design, probably the strongest part of the screenshot.
@rickyT23, yeah I like, Tudor style :D 
the new stone texture (which is very nice) makes the roof texture look too low res now IMHO. Unless thats a placekeeper texture for now. 
I'm excited about your map and its clear way of evoluation.
It bleaches my own Q1 tryings which is, of course, is my own fault. 
Shallow Angle 
@nitin, both are the same size (512x512), the roof angle is nothing too steep (about 30 degree's) so not sure what to suggest. All textures eventually mip and compress into mush at the right viewing angle. The screenshot was setup to show the wall texture and little consideration for anything else. 
another shot from a different angle of the roof tex? 
Guardian Room 
i wonder... would it be possible to get that map working in one of the quake engine ports that supports q3 bsp format like DP? at least then it will play like a normal map and still look like it was originally made to look. 
those screenshots certainly have a UT(99) vibe now in terms of style! There was a custom ctf map that reminds me of, cant remember the name right now... 
The area shown in those 2 screenshots needs more color variation, too much grey. 
UT Vibe 
'those screenshots certainly have a UT(99) vibe now in terms of style!'

I am not sure if this a compliment or an insult, what is a UT(99) vibe?

Jago, yeah very true, but there is some more to do yet, this is just a first pass. 
Guardian Room Shots... 
...looks sexy as Hell !! Very nice ! 
neither, its just that it reminded me of a UT99 map stylistically in those shots than a q3 map. 
Is a compliment in my eyes. There's always been some really nice mapping and map vibes in the Unreals.

The open window made me do funny and inappropriate things in my trousers. 
That skybox is weird as shit... I love it! 
Portal To The Past

@nitin,Shambler : I suppose I was a bit shocked to be told my stuff looks like something made 10 years ago, but I understand what you mean.

@MadFox, I like the ogre strolling by the canal, I dread to think how crazy the compile times are for that. 
@sock #anachronism 
It really does look UT99-esque! Too bad it doesn't look q1-esque ;-) 
i think i can see what people are getting at -- the thing that strikes me as most UT99 about these latest shots is the monotonous color tone of the textures -- they are all very desaturated and about the same value, all you need to make it even more UT99-esque is to add very high saturation light sources.

Quake 3 generally has more saturated textures, with lots of orange, brown, green, and pink, and stronger variation in value (dark trims on light walls over medium floors, etc.) 
I prefer Q3 over UT99 by a fair margin, largely because the world was a lot funner. It just drew me into it better and I felt it 'fit'. 
I Think Metl 
has spelt out what I was seeing. Its the texturing really, but the lighting is also like more recent UT99 custom levels (ie not as saturated as original UT99 maps). 
Yeah I can see what you mean now, I created a new stone trim texture and was loving it so much that I painted it all over the new architectural shapes and forgot I was creating something all the same colour.

Try this one:

Ive tried adding colour back to the top of the image with the classic redish/white marble combo. I want the place to feel slightly old and worn out colour wise, obviously no floor details yet. The blue is suppose to be the focal point, very strong contrast to everything else around it and the lighting is soft yellow diffuse inside the room and bright sky outside.

I really like how the architectural shapes all fit together with the classic barrel ceiling support and wooden square windows contrasting at the top. The only nitpick for me is the columns are not tapered at the top like in the real world, so it sort of lacks the solid feel you get when looking at the inside of a church.

Ironically someone did mention to add more blue colour lights but the yellow and sky are so strong (the room is a glasshouse) that not much is going to counter the yellow, unless of course it is strong saturated lights! Oh I feel like I am slipping into a UT99 timewarp!

@inertia, OMG that is one cool word! :D I am not sure if you are talking about the UT style on a Q1 forum being out of place or that I am using a strange mix of gothic and classic architecture in my screenshots. Plus the strange woodpunk thing I got with technology items in my map. 
Whatever it is, sock, I like it. That room is great. Nice lighting, good solid construction - well done! 
I Like Both Versions 
lighting is ace in both shots btw. 
Sock You Rock! 
The map looks great, keep it up! 
I have to give it to you, that last shot (especially the "after") looks brilliant. Perhaps the only thing I'd change is adding yet a bit more color - to the 4 high pillars. 
I like them both. 
I Prefer 
The higher contrast (2nd) version . 
Contrast ?? 
I didn't notice a single change in between the two shots.... weird... 
What's wrong with you? :P Look at the colors used right above the 4 high pillars. First shot is grey, 2nd shot is reddish. 
I love the second shot too. Stands out pretty nicely. 
There's nothing wrong with me, I didn't notice this color "change", that's all.... 
don't hand me that colourblind test with that coloured points asking which number I see...
no difference. 
I Have To Admit... 
... there's a small color differnce that can be noticed... when you know where to look for ;) 
Theres A Big Difference 
in light level generally isnt there? 
..on screen I guess.. or am I completely blind ? :P 
And I Thought 
Quake1 players saw a different spectrum - 64000 shades of brown ;) 
It's Missing 
Ogre Shirt Brown
Ogre Teeth Brown
Fiend Hoof Brown
e4m1 Brick Brown
e4m1 Mortar Brown . . .

I could go on, not forever, but at least up to 64000 
This theme could be a good Speedmap theme.... 
I Tried 
Making a small .wad that I called coffee.wad that was just pure colors of brown. That was it. I took each shade of brown and made it an entire texture. I was going to make a geocomp map out of it, but then I ended up not doing that. 
So Speedmap Theme 
'only one colour' ? 
Let's Say... 
... only Brown color 
Sounds Like A Shitty Idea 
that is progress, the two textures you changed do seem to pop more and have more color, which makes the map feel more alive. However, I would follow through with the rest of the scene, to the extent you are comfortable. For example, the columns, the column trim, the brick walls, and the window trim are still basically all the same color. You could try making the brick texture more pale and bleached out, and/or making the window trim darker. You could also try making the column trim darker and the columns paler too.

Also, you should try turning on anisotropic filtering, that floor is blurry as hell from this angle :) 
Wood Panel Of Delight 
Slowly I have been going through all the map textures and replacing them with photo source stuff instead. I knew I needed to find a replacement for the old ID pentagram light and after a lot of pavement wandering I came across this gorgeous wood panel I found on a street door.

Initially I took the central diamond shape and extended it downward slightly into a shallow pyramid of light, but at a distance (floor to ceiling angle) it just looked flat. So here is version 3, the texture outline is stil present with the shape heavily extended outwards to create a better profile and the actual light source is now sitting in a gem socket. (Damn you torchlight!)

@Metl, oops I totally forgot about anisotroic filtering for screenshots. It makes a big difference for texture compression at low angles so new screenshots should be a lot better. :)

Been busy fine tuning all the portal shader effects in my map and replacing the low res crap stuff I created years ago. Had a nice cloudy day recently which was ideal for some moody portal clouds. Also spent a while playing torchlight and taking note of their portal shader construction. This is an old screenshot angle but has all the new sfx candy present on the portal front, plus some minor cosmetic changes to the underside.

@Scampie, I can't believe it, you just said Quake 1 (brown palette) looked like shit!?! :P 
gem lights are cool.

in the first screenshot, top right image, you have concentric octagonal rings of wood strips on the ceiling. Might look better if you had eight thin strips of raised wood radiating out along the 8 kinks in the rings. 
Props The Modern Day Litter Problem!

A slow week for me, still trying to get rid of a flu bug and my head feels like it is full of concrete! Been busy creating props to fill up the corners and floors of my map with. Still got more stuff to make but at least the look of the level is starting to come together.

@metlslime, yeah I will add that to my list of art things to do. The ceiling is really high so you don't really notice the seams but a trim would certainly look better. 
Maybe It's Just Me 
because the frame of reference is vague, but those books look gigantic, like 2 feet tall. :P 
Big Books 
Are great books... 
Curse You And Your Tiny Hands! :P 
Umm this is going to be a difficult one because everything else in the map is built Soviet Russia style (giant) so making the books realistic makes them look weird.

Here is an example screenshot with the bookcase and books scaled down by 50% next to the original scale. The scaled down version just looks weird to me, squashed and flat.

Here is a screenshot of the room:

I will try some other scale values and see what I can do, be back later. 
Giant books are better. The screenshot with the smaller books reminds me of all those horrible "realistic-looking" games' attempt to have "scale". 
I Like 
Big books and I cannot lie - eldritch tomes are cool.

But here it's almost the opposite. By having a human-hand sized item in the level it gives the player a reference point in the otherwise distorted dimensions they're looking at.

What I mean is the smaller books give the player perspective on how wierd the restt of the place is.

Probably will need to find a decent balence between real size and good size though. 
Soviet Scale! 
Well I tried the bookcases at 2 different sizes and both did not feel right to me. I needed to try this because part of the reasons I post here is I want feedback on my stuff.

Scale 50% - (16 unit high books)
Scale 75% - (24 unit high books)
Scale 100% - (32 unit high books)

I am going to stick with the original scale because everything else in this map is large already and small stuff looks squashed next to it. The overall scale of the map is certainly strange and it will never be HL style real world scaling. Currently the player is 72 units high, most doorways are 192 units tall and corridors are roughly 256 units wide. The scale is certainly funky and beyond repair at this point.

I think the problem with the original screenshots is I went a tad bit crazy with the variable scaling on individual books, so will go back and tweak them down a bit. I blame the antibiotics, they are doing crazy stuff to my brain! :P 
I quite like the big books, it adds style. 
I'd need to see a player standing next to them to really tell you. It's almost impossible to tell from those shots what looks right and what doesn't.

Then again, fuck it, right? It's a hall of giants and they need large books. Done! 
Map For Giants 
The scale of the map is big, probably three times the scale of real life. Here is a screenshot showing 2 area's of the map from the players POV and then thirdperson with a 256 unit camera range.

Quake player/thirdperson angles have always been strange and making them exact often ends up with alot of pain. Same with 1st/3rd weapon views for fps games. Originally I made the stuff small but hitting small triggers to operate stuff is frustrating so I scaled everything up to help with the gameplay. (puzzle operated architecture) 
Scale's Perfect! 
Anyone who wants realism needs to play a different game tbh because scale's going to be the least of their problems. 
been checking out your updates of screenshots here for a while - damn nice map, seems like a frankenstein-castle meets e1m2 meets mountaintop temple vibe. Great stuff, atmospheric and good title to go with the style. 
Love The Soviet Scale 
in Soviet Russia books scale you! 
Nobody wants realism, they want consistency. Very different things.

That said, it looks fine. Ship it. :) 
yeah, my comment wasn't about realism, it was about the lack of a point of reference and that huge books look goofy to me.

i'll elaborate: it's not that huge books look goofy, but that all the books are huge. ledgers and such might be large, but having small, normal sized books interspersed with the oversized ones will do two things: 1. let the player know you did the sizes on purpose and 2. underscore the difference in size of the large books by giving something to compare with.
also, i liked that the 50% book cases allowed 2 rows of books instead of just a single row with the 100% model.
more books = more awesome, if you could make a huge towering bookcase that reached to the ceiling, even better. :P 
Personally I want a socialist utopia, ice cream and Kate Beckinsale, but there we go.

On a more helpful note, I like the 50% scale books tbh, although maybe mix it in with some '100%' scale books. Most old books (which'd fit with the theme) are kinda giant anyway (think ancient tomes rather than a paperback novel).
The advantage of the 50% books is that you can make them into two shelves, so you still have the same space filled but with a less strange scale. 75% just looks wrong since the bookcase/shelf doesn't match the space under the window.
Depends on how extreme your poly saving gets tho, obviously two shelves of half size books means twice the polys, but I can't see them using that many if build properly...

Oh, and I think you've gotta work from 1st person view, as already stated, the player models always look so wrongly small compared to the view from the first person camera that you have to build 'soviet scale' (great phrase btw)

Oh, and why do totalitarian regimes always have such good architecture? (retorical, same reason churches are giganto ofc... not that I'm comparing religion to totalitarianism at all ;) 
How dare you steal the useful half of my post while I was typing? ;p 
Oh, and does anyone else feel sock is making a WoW instance? 
lol at the first part of your first comment nonentity. If only...

for me the question is do the giants who built this place happen to use bigger pages because they're comfortable handling bigger books (2x the words per page)...? 
Big Books 
looks better to me too. 
Well I Noticed You Said Church As A Refrence 
but what i noticed is that the Egyptian Scale and the Soviet Scale are similar, same for of government, i though Egypt more as a Monarchy kinda deal...? 
For = Form 
I want to live in your map.

Also I think the 50% books look fine, it just makes the windows look more grandiose. 
Ancient Scale 
@necros, yeah that is the problem I made everything the same size. I was too excited about having books as props that I did not tweak the relative sizes. Certainly will add smaller books as well.

@Tronyn, wow thanks :)

Large structures always feel awe inspiring to me, which is probably why I love most ancient structures. The same with churches, got to feel the awe of god and he does need a big house, apparently.

I will try and stick to the same scale for all the props so at least they will look consistent next to each other. Need to build some smaller props so scale is more apparent. Time to build some candles and stools with books on them!

@nonentity, yeah I would love to build a wow instance, I so love that game that I could easily live 24/7 playing it. 
A big thing about Quake, for me, is the feeling of foreignness. Inserting comfortable objects, like books, reduces that a LOT for me. If it's on the edge of forever, who is going to be reading books there? It's meant for more important things :-) 
What If 
The book is bound in human skin, inked in blood and rips your face off if you open it? 
Yes, yes, I like where this is going... 
"Hasn' anyone bin able ter open their books? Yeh've got to stroke 'em." 
No Those Kind Of Books Spirit 
If it's on the edge of forever, who is going to be reading books there?

Ever read The Bridge by Iain Banks? (I think I mean The Bridge, it might be another one of his (non-sci-fi) books). The bit with the old man and woman constantly playing board games in some giant castle/tower in the middle of icey nowhere. It's kinda like that.

And some of the later WoW instances, especially in the expansion packs, are masterful pieces of gameplay/level design. I'd be proud to have made one of them. (I love that game so much I had to go through rehab ;) The puzzle element and graphic style are very reminiscent (especially those exterior shots with the eaves). 
Actually, I always wanted to make a level based on the bridge city from The Bridge. A section of an infinite bridge covered in art-noveau/retro future style houses/stores/buildings... 
Walking On Glass. 
Along with The Bridge and The Wasp Factory, his best non-SF books. 
Forever Wow 
The latest expansion pack of wow has some jaw dropping amazing instances, the art and style is just perfect. Everything is large because of gameplay reasons (no one wants to fight bosses in cupboards, plus it be would exploited like crazy) but yet there are small alcoves and sections with details that bring everything together on consistancy. The instances are where wow shines the most for me, the huge game world is cool but the real wow factor is indoors.

Last weekend I had a small mapping break from my forever map and decided to try an experiment with rich coloured lighting, decals and sky portals.

The above screenshots feature simple blue panels wrapped around geo architecture and accented with gold and blue lighting. Most of the time was spent with the animated item marker on the floor. I really wanted the decal to maintain edge shadows, have solid fill colours and yet be a decal at the same time!

Something I always find lacking in my maps is the connection between world geometry and skybox, so the next experiment was connecting this together with various shaders, models and a portal skybox.

The blue light beam flows upwards to the portal sky and the models in the portal sky then carry on the illusion up to multiple swirling cloud layers which gradually alpha away to blue sky horizon. The architecture around the focal point is just to accent the view upwards and make the players viewpoint vertical. 
Wonky Links 
Ooops I messed up one of the screenshot links, so here is the first two again, but correct links: 
Stellar, awesome, kick ass! Go go go! Love that look and feel. 
Now That's Craft 
I really like this style: cartoon-ish but design advanced... it looks like a fan-art map :)
It reminds me a lot the Willem's White Room Q1SP... Good job :) 
I Want 
what willem drinks in the morning! Wow now that must be some serious coffeeeeeeeee! :)

Yeah it just a doodle map, nothing serious or playable, just playing with q3map2 tech. Seriously, why so few people post screenshots of what they are mapping? :( 
... either nobody is actually mapping, or current projects are not progressing as stucked in the limbs of Hell (my case) :P 
I Got 6000+ Brushes Of E2m1rq Done :) 
Might post a screenie or two as it gets towards completion.

As for ever getting to play it - well if enough people work on maps for the rest of the project it might actually get released before the apocalypse in 2012 
So We've Got A Deadline Then? 
But yeah, will post some shots today. 
Forgot The Emoticon 
JPL - Heeeeelp Uuuuussss Pleeeeaaaseee!!! 
Seriously, why so few people post screenshots of what they are mapping? :(

i have gotten into the mindset lately of not wanted to 'spoil' any of my maps by posting screenshots. i don't know if that's dumb or not though. :P 
Going back to the mapping process post, personally I work in an iterative way, so if something is close enough to detailed that I could post a shot then it's probably pretty near finished...

(Not that I ever finish a map) 
holy fuckasaurus! 
Some Multiplayer Stuff 
..esome! And then some! 
So Many Awesome Screenshots 
So little time! 
holy wowasaurus! Mike I did not think Q1 could look that good! Awesome cave stuff and the fog in some of those screenshots is gorgeous. Please post more! :D

ijed, very cool :)

Top right in your first shot is beautiful Mike. Love the bridge/underground cavern.

And good, novel theme in the 3rd shot ijed, that hole in the ground is very nice... 

as i said earlier, all those shots are great looking.
i'd suggest reworking that brick texture. it's 128x128 atm, consider modifying it to be 256x256 or even 512x512. just tile it at the larger size and play with the colour shading to add more variety so that it doesn't appear to obviously tiling on wide, open swathes of brushwork (ex: shot2, bottom-right quadrant)
also, epic bridges over lava with detailed terrain around the base = win.


shot 1: ok, but really cramped. obviously, that's the point since it's a remake of dm4. i never liked that map in it's original form either. (e3m7 is also cramped like that) so can't really fault anything with the remake version. good on your texture alignment, btw. maybe work some vertical aligned brushwork into the uppermost areas? the horizontal striping is fine at the bottom where it's broken up with hallway openings and such, but it's undisturbed at the top which makes it look repetitive.

shot 2: plain, except for that undergrowth of leaves, which is nice. it's a dm map though, so i guess the lack of detail is sort of par for the course. it'd be great if you could work some trim into the edges of those bridges and some supports and stuff.

shot 3: easily the best of the three, very cool with the sweeping curved staircases and the details up at the top area. too often (in other's maps as well as my own) the top area at the sky is ignored in favour of plain walls or whatever.
it's a tad monolithic with those mini-domes in the far side of the room in that shot.
braziers are nice, are those brush or mesh models? either way, very cool. both the cracked hole and the wheel-type grate next to the gun are nice too. 
Maybe add a slight bit of red to the fog so it suggests the lava pools in areas where they're not. Not too realistic, but like there's brimstone in the air. Red brimstone.

Thanks for the comments :)

DM4: Like some supporting structures for the vertical elements? Will give it a try. The level I used to like alot playing on the N64, but it seems like a hated map for most. It's a bit bigger horizontally and a fair bit vertically.

DM7: Is very basic yeah. I was thinking to close off the ceiling and have lots of moss / vegetation hanging down. But I'll try adding some wooden beam supports as well as trim for the walkways. Had beams before in place of whats there now (used to be a void map) but having them as detail as opposed to structure sounds good.

CTF1: The hole is for a special prop I haven't rebuilt yet (2nd version of map). The level is called 'House of Rhogog'. The uppermost tier is for sniping with the Cauteriser since it doesn't allow the player to cross to the opposing side. The braziers are brush - I was thinking to get rid of them tbh - but yeah, theres other stuff to do and they're ok looking. The hole and grate both lead to the underground tier. 
More Time Now 
DM7 is basically a version of the underground ruin from the film The Ruins. Not particularly well realised, so want to bring it more into line - thus closing off the ceiling but leaving a single skylight, also closing up the top floor a little, since our mantle movement allows players to steal the Quad up there too easily.

DM4 is basically as is since inception. Putting in some vertical supports is a decent idea - currently the ceilings are purely decorative whith what's there. And not particularly imaginative.

CTF1 is very much in progress. The reason I was saying about removing the braziers is that I was considering having the stairs in the bottom left and their facing set covered by another sticking our veranda from the top tier, with pillars replacing the braziers. Going to do that anyway, but leave the others in. Need more light sources elsewhere as well, so will keep them. 
I have gotten into the mindset lately of not wanted to 'spoil' any of my maps by posting screenshots. i don't know if that's dumb or not though. :P

I kind of feel this way. I'm trying to avoid releasing screenshots of all the cool areass of my maps, otherwise there may be no new cool areas for people to discover when playing. 
I didn't notice Mike's shots were 4 joined together, I was just looking at the top left ones thinking "meh, they look OKAY" ;). Very cool stuff indeed, surely that's quite a way along development.

Metl: that's the thing isn't it. When I was posting other people's shots I was very careful to not post the coolest scenes as, well, even in Quake they can be bloody impressive and an important aspect of enjoying the map. I tried to find areas that were typical and looked good, but not the best bits.

Also I think people are mapping pretty slow these days ;) 
That's what I try to do on Quaddicted too and I constantly get bad remarks about screenshots being bad (apart from problems with the brightness/gamma).

I too do not like getting spoiled. Be it a movie trailer where too many later scenes are shown and I am sitting there, thinking "that scene has not happened yet, so X cannot happen to Y" or - well - a Quake map. 
hmmm steampunk with plain old medieval? not sure how that'll work. the outside brick textures look a little plain to me. using some better textures could spice things up. that's what i'd do anyway - there's way better brick textures than those ones, and the little metal trims aren't very noticeable. like the style and build quality though! 
Cool Stuff. 
Number 1 is ace. 
first 2 are the same map, last shot is a different map, it's not all jumbled up together :P

i'm not totally happy with the main brick texture myself, but as that map has a lot of big structures, i needed something that wasn't too varied so it could tile without looking bad. i originally wanted to use the blocks10 texture from q3 (it's the beige blocks set in cyclopean style) but i felt the trim interacted better with distinct bricks better than haphazard blocks. also, the red stripe motif works better with the brighter white of the bricks than the tan colours of block10, although i guess i could have photoshopped block10 to be more white.

block10 and the orange floor tiles are still like my absolute favourite textures. :P 
Those shots really look good, especially the first one. Keep it up :) 
Wow, which texture set is the steampunk stuff? That looks great! 
I'll try to return the favour :0

Is that a brightly lit cave under the cliff face? What's in there? Is it an Ogre? I MUST KNOW!

The second shot, I'd make the pillar bases part of the second step - it does help with vis, but is almost more realistic, pillars are always on a supportive base as opposed to stairs or slopes. And a big cyclopian block reminds the player (who doesn't look up much) that there's something massive above them.

The third shot, maybe give the stairs a trim . . . not sure what I'd suggest there - the Kona slope I never really liked (sorry K) because of the change in movement when the player shifts left or right. On the other hand that curve will make things complicated for brushes. Maybe just cut the last 16 units and put a trim tex on there. Do the cogs move? 
thats a q1 wad of rorshach's (kevin johnston) HH3 q3 textures. 
Love the first shot - maybe even influenced by your experimenting with Far Cry? Christ you're taking Q1 to new (yet still, amazingly appropriate) limits that just illustrate the strength of the original art.

Mike Woodham:
hmm, This Onion was one of the best maps ever, and I assume this is the sequel, and it looks even more amazing.

ijed nothing needs to be said your project is crazily exciting.

Nice to see some mappers around with such high technical competence! I tend to just mash lots of shit together and expect Bengt's tools to iron it all out (see nsoe6), lol.

Great stuff in this thread recently anyway. 
Its Clockwork Droid by Rorshach (spelling?) and its one of my all-time favourite texture sets!

he also did another ace set called Vendetta. I had a look around but couldn't find any links! :( I'm sure someone here can hook you up though. 
Do the cogs move?
of course! ^_^

The second shot, I'd make the pillar bases part of the second step
i like that :) the 'bigger at the top, thinner at the bottom' motif is something i'd like to explore.

on clockwork droid, they were incredibly difficult to find, and i'm sorry to say, i can't recall where i managed to download them. it might have been a backup of rorschach's site on my memory is very hazy. i (obviously) still have them, so if anyone's looking for the set (unmodified), let me know and i'll put it up. 
Doesnt Rorshach Work At Epic Still 
if so, willem could just talk to him :)

All his texture sets (not to mention skins) were lovely. His artwork was one of Unreal 2's biggest assets IMHO. 
Yeah, he does, but I can't know to talk to him until I know who made the set. I'm not going to walk up to his desk every time I see a texture I like and ask him if it's his. :) 
Surely You Have A Internal Forum Or Something 
We also have email and instant messaging. The point is, I'm not going to bug him every time I see a texture I like on the internet. 
That said, where might one download that texture set? I did a few Google searches but came up empty or with broken links... 
I find those rusty textures utterly ugly. They look like dirty bathroom without any clear structure.

kz1on1a looks nice though, I think it uses some of these textures too. 
he had hosting on polycount but thats down at the moment and I couldnt find a backup of the old PQ polycount site.

Which is why I was saying you might want to talk to him if you want to get them. I wasnt expecting you to be a psychic or anything :) 
not sure how they look in q1 but every map Ive seen them used in for q3 or UT looked fabulous. 
Rorshach Textures 
Drive-by help...

Most preview pics work. FilePlanet Download links should work if you remove the " 20040625224312/" bit. 
Hadnt Seen Some Of The "newer" Ones 
some of those would make terrific themes, ivory and temple for example. 
can anyone actually download the files off fileplanet? when the fileplanet link loads up, i just get an up area with an ad where the links to the files normally show up on a fileplanet download.

the ivory set looks particularly badass 
He still posts on Polycount (Under his real name, Kevin Johnstone) if anyone wants to get in touch with him and ask through there. 
I shot Kevin an email about those textures. Hopefully he'll reply with either a good download link or a ZIP file. We'll see! 
Kevin brought in a USB drive of the Quake stuff that he could find and said I could host it on Quaketastic so ...

That's everything he gave me! Not sure what format anything is in but there you go... 
Now, whoever converts those to Quake 1, PLEASE keep track of how you rename the files. That would make it possible to later use symlinks/hardlinks for easy high quality replacement texture usage. 
that guy's awesome!
and thanks for doing this, willem :) 
vendetta, me wants 
My Start Map 
bit crap meTch :| 
Looking forward to what's next on my list for 2004 games I missed... Farcry, Medal of Honor 2, Painkiller, Chronicles of Riddick, Halflife2. Might play Riddick next I think... high expectations on this one :) 
slutbag, wrong thread 
I Know 
its like the third map ive ever made :) 
riddick is a lot of fun to play, if only because the character is so much fun. but there's a combination of action and stealth and sometimes the stealth is nearly mandatory (and sometimes action is) so keep that in mind. 
whatever - looks aren't everything (again, ask Negke), as long as the it's fun! 
Laz0r Beam 
omg i wanna bang that map 
Interesting Question 
If you could fornicate with one map for the rest of your life, what map would it be? 
Nice Colors 
Love that look, sock.

One criticism though ... I think the ceiling in that second shot is a little busy. I like the tile on the floor but not so much on the ceiling. I think that would look better with something flatter. 
Better question:

If you were stuck on an island with no internet connection, what would be the three maps you'd want on on your hard-drive? 
WorldCraft 3.3, Qonverge and aguirre's tools. 
I assumed you'd have the editors . . . 
If you were stuck on an island with no internet connection, what would be the three maps you'd want on on your hard-drive?

Terra - Shotgun Experiment 2
Castle of Koohoo
The temple level from Zerstorer 
some good DM maps and a frined of mine in order to play 1o1... better than plating SP I guess :) 
Masque of the Red Death
Day of the Lords
Random Shot 
And Layout Overview: 

So yes it's more than 2 rooms Zwiffle! 
Looks like 2 rooms to me. -_-;; 
Two big, complicated, interlinked rooms, tho. 
Looks really interesting... maybe too grey-ish... though...
Add pipes and crates, and here is a Quake map ;) 
Another map that reminds me of Unreal! Like the look of this one.

JPL has a point, it is looking very clean and not very "lived-in" at the moment, if its a Dm map then thats fine but if its Sp, then perhaps work on it a little. 
But uniform in terms of colour - maybe some trims thrown in as suggested.

For some reason I was thinking PCB inside the stonework. Wouldn't work with the specular effect I'm thinking of though. 
OMG Beta Time! 
This is funny, I actually have screenshots and a beta at the same time!?! :P The map is for a mapping contest, closing date tomorrow. So if you spot any cosmetic/item changes please let me know.


Kaz, very nice level, it is coming along really well with the industrial look but I think the lighting needs more colour and contrast. If you any white point lights, replace them with something coloured (even a mild white if nothin else) You also need a strong coloured light source somewhere in the map, either from above, a window or a certain large spotlight.

Are you compiling with any dirty q3map2 settings? you should at least try low values first and start tuning lightmapscale for your shadows. 
Sock, You Rock (tm) 
That is not the map I am looking for. :(

Yay anyways! Gonna try it. 
i'll take a run around this and i'll take a finished version of that other map as payment. ^_^ 
Re: Kaz 
very dark and dull. passing your shots through photoshop and playing with levels, i was able to bring out some colours and actually see what was in those shots.

that said, shot 2 is very nice. i like that it implies there's more to the map than just the area you're in. also, off-axis arches are always cool. i think a bit more texture variation is called for, though. it's got a bit of a q1metal vibe because of the focus on small spot lamps and the one texture with the lines. (which i really like). i think if you aggressively use the lined texture to cut through in different ways, it could add a lot. 
Re: Sock 
took a quick look around. there's a bug in the map when played in ioquake3 1.36. the texture on the wall behind a box of grenades on the first level (roughly the area you spawn in when using /devmap). the wall shows up as just solid colour, but looks fine in normal quake3. dunno if that matters or not. 
I ended up browsing your site and noticed that among the list of you design work, you list the Train level from Crysis Warhead. How much of it was your own personal touch and how many people in total worked on it?

I am asking because I played through Warhead only recently, about 2-3 months ago and found Train to be the best looking FPS level ever made, for any game, by far :P 
... a great improvement :) 
definite improvement. btw, have you got Anistropic Filtering off? textures look very blurry. 
I worked on Train at the end of the project, about 3-4 weeks. I was responsible for the main train scripting system and the first action bubble (first valley and station). I did write up a page on my website talking about all the things I did with the map. I was mostly involved in the AI combat (pacing) systems and the main train script, it took forever to test it correctly.

I thought the map was cool because it took a traditional game element (rail shooter) and turned it into a sandbox element. (Player freedom) Unfortunately people either loved or hated the level and that was often linked to how they play games. People often expect something to be the same in every game and when it is different, they sadly (for them) forget to try new ways to play. Some reviews and community comments did not even realise you could get off the train and play the level at your own pace, oh well. :/

My postmortem review:

I even put an easter egg in the first valley across the lake behind the tree's. It was sort of my signature for which levels I worked on. 
Introducing Myself 
Hi evrybdy !

I'm Mic , italian quake player & mapper..

I've been working hard for months and soon i'll show you my first levels (mostly single player.. eheh)

But can you tell me if "Quark" editor is better than "Worldcraft" and why?

Is it true "Quark" lets you modify everything (models, skins, sounds, weapons..) ??

Pleaz letme know : ) 
not really the right thread for this, mapping help would be more applicable since you're asking for, well, mapping help. :P

anyway, which editor is better is widely disputed. it comes down to what you like, and it's up to you to try them all out and see.

quark is a good all purpose tool because, yes, it has the capability to modify almost everything. worldcraft and radiant (qeradiant and gtkradiant) are only for mapping. i feel those two have superior mapping capabilities than quark does. 
Hi Mic! 
Necros is right - apparently QuArK is not so good for mapping.
I use Worldcraft for mapping :)

Basically Worldcraft wins in my personal opinion because it has a very good texture lock feature, allowing you to rotate multiple brushes (although you really have to set it to "default to 15 degree rotations"). This makes level creation quite a bit faster.

I have never really managed to try Radiant, but apparently it is also very good.

Which editor have you been using?

Also are you planning on getting your maps tested? If so I would be happy to oblige!

Also: - Screenshot please :) 
QuArK can rotate anything just fine without screwing up the textures. You will just end up in floating point hell. It is a fantastic mapping tool if it wasn't for its quirks that sometimes screw up your map. 

Good tutorials as well. 
I'll Be Making The Bay Door Taller 
Library Card Expired! 
In between the food and drink festive excess I have had some time to do some detailing on this old familiar area, which I have featured in many screenshots. (Sort of a benchmark progress screenshot) Getting close to the end of this map, I am hoping to finish it for the beginning of the new year! 
Better Renew It Then 
I am hoping to finish it for the beginning of the new year!

1st Shot 
detailing is fab 
That's Looking Great! 
Love the little skull on the ledge outside.

If you want any more testing, feel free to shoot me a link to the latest. I'm being a lazy bastard until the new year and faffing about doing nothing much.

*raises beer* 
Crazy Idea In My HeadTM 
Ok this was a stupid idea (from a technical point of view), but it was something I thought would be cool (in my headTM) so I decided to try it out. I wanted to have the Guardian portal show where you are going, so I created a special model of the outside of the castle and then pointed the portal at it. After a lot of work trying to make it look good and match it all up to the insides of the building I finally got it working.

OMG it is freakin awesome, the screenshots do the whole effect no justice. As you walk up to the portal it fades into view, a closeup of the outside of the castle and then the camera pans outwards as you get closer to the portal. You can slightly turn the camera left and right by moving left and right and get the whole depth thing of the model. Plus the electric shader effect on the transformer in the first room you can see working correctly through the front window. Need to add some more moving fog/mist layers around the bottom and across the front and it should be complete.

Walking up towards the portal as it fades into view

The final view when you are next to the portal 
Oh Wow 
A framerate killer for sure, but who cares when it looks that cool.

Sock, I'm perpetually in awe of your mapping skills. 
Framerate Killer? 
In the days of 3 Ghz dualcores and i5/i7 CPUs? I don't think so. 
Dirty Windows 
Here is a an update to the close up of the portal. I have added some dirt and a glass bubble effect to the outer edge of the portal window.

The frame rate drops from 125 to 80 on my laptop when I have the portal in full screen view (1600x1200 res) on a 2Ghz IBM laptop. The outside model is only 3K polys and the room has no combat or AI. It is certainly much better visually than a static screenshot for the portal background and it does look awesome when in motion. 
Reminds me of Serious Sam.

Looking forward to the map. 
great idea and go for it, its not a playable dm map anyway right, so framerate drop in sp puzzle mode is not a big deal. 
Le Sigh 
Well that is a noticeable fps drop, but my point was that it doesn't matter if the map is not-action oriented. Actually I misunderstood about it being just a model, and not the whole map seen from the outside.

Jago, not everybody has uber-computers, especially people who play 9-13 year old games. 
Dead Map Zone 
It is very unlikely my map will work on hardware that is 5+ yrs old. Even if the screen resolution is lowered, all of the textures have been doubled in size and this will strain most old video cards with slowdowns as the textures are swapped in and out of video memory.

There is no bot/dm style gameplay just exloring and button mashing puzzles which should help a little bit with frame rate issues. Most of the rooms are 20k polys with plenty of multi-layer shaders around and a couple of areas even spike as high as 30K polys. This map was designed to have lots of detail with stuff to look at and explore.

The people who could run this map (have good enough hardware) are no longer play Q3 (moved on to better things) and the people left playing Q3 have old machines so this map is really in a dead zone. Coupled with the fact that the 'gameplay' is puzzle based, I fully understand that this map will only played by me and 3 other people (the beta testers). 
Don't Worry About It Man 
I just need to upgrade one of these days... 
Fuck That 
I'll play it. 
So 4 then . . .

Even if it's only played by a handful of people the thought and time you've put into it makes you a better mapper - it's not wasted.

Otherwise nobody here would bother. 
And counting. I re-installed Q3 to have a take at that map :) 
I'm definitely reinstalling Quake 3 for this map. It just looks absolutely awesome. :) 
The people who could run this map (have good enough hardware) are no longer play Q3 (moved on to better things) and the people left playing Q3 have old machines so this map is really in a dead zone.

Bullshit. :)

I'm actually toying with the idea of starting a new Q3 map (came up with an odd idea for a very different tourney map layout), and I certainly play newer games.

Q3 is one of those games people will keep playing and/or return to for quite a while yet... 
I'd reinstall Q3 just to play the map as well. 
I'll Play It 
heck I'll even review it for Quaddicted if Spirit's down for it, or for somewhere else if not. It looks awesome. Plus I still have Q3 though I haven't played since forever. 
Probably not tbh. Method is working on Rage over at iD these days, doubt he has much in the way of spare time/energy for level design outside of work. 
Thanks For The Support 
Well I am certainly looking forward to hearing what people think of this map. I have a ton of stuff to talk about on this map, so the web pages should be full of plenty of development details.

I am nearly finished with the last bits and pieces, just got to do a final detail pass on certain areas and sprinkle some small rock around the place. 
Really nice ! 
I have a ton of stuff to talk about on this map, so the web pages should be full of plenty of development details.

I'm personally looking forward to seeing that. :D 
it's a shame. those three shots really had a fully developed style that could have been carried on for a full map.

also, sock, if you don't know i want to play edge of forever yet, i don't know what to tell you. ;) 
is there any interest to beta test a d3sp minimod?
i only ask because it plays a lot more like quake than d3 but there probably aren't a lot who have d3 installed. 
After January 7th... 
...I'd be up for it. I was planning on reinstalling D3... Drop me a line if you want. 
I will but I get home tomorrow and have other things to do, not sure where testing would prioritize itself just yet though. 
Reinstalled the other day, but testing'd just have to go on my todo list, so probably no help to a speedy release. 
Jago: thanks, i'll send you an email. :)

the_silent: depending on how many changes need to be made, it may work out well that you can't play until later. ;) 
Cave Rubble 
Been experimenting with floor debris the last couple of days and it seems that 5 sided small rocks seem to produce the best results for variety. I initially created a set of 6 different shapes, then a couple of small groups (different shapes, sizes, orientations) and finally sprinkled the groups around the blend edges not the cave walls. Saving the cave wall edge for larger rocks works better. I also used a lower phong value (60) and it really does bring out the cave wall edges better.

@necros, I have D3 installed if you want some help testing stuff, but I won't be able to help till after Jan 12th. Got a city trip planned for next week. 
Best Q3 Rock Floor 
to date. 
yeah, all your textures look fantastic. :) 
Safe3 Beta 
Safe3 is now ready for some beta testing if you are interested. It's a small sized Quake 1 DM level suitable for 2 - 4 players. You can send feedback to fikabord -at- gmail dot com. Feel free to comment on anything :)

Download bsp here

Screenshots this way

Random Thoughts 
Layout seems ok, if not a little too tight. Dunno about item placement as I haven't played it, just noclipped through.
The map could use more detail. It uses almost exclusively one single wall texture. Try to break it up by adding some more wall panels like that machine bit in one spot (needs to be properly clipped through). The ceilings could use some variation too, for example by indenting the lights like you did in some cases and adding some trim around them. The floor edges would also look better with trim.
There's a 16-unit edge near the SSG that blocks movement unncessarily.
Don't forget to add one or two intermission entities. 
My �2.00 
Similar to neg's really, didn't playtest but ran around:

Build quality is good, style is coherent and consistent, main atrium and LG/water room are both nice features, ceiling pipes are good details, main rooms are spacious enough, Quad is well placed.

Things to improve:

1. Connecting corridors are a bit too corridory, can imagine some rapey kills going on in there, plus visually boring. Try to open them out a bit more.

2. A bit more water would be nice. Try adding a bit in the main atrium plus some puddles beneath pipes to give visual interest plus sound clues.

3. Texturing is too samey! Adding some different but harmonious textures in would look better AND give players useful visual clues as to which bit of corridor they are in.

4. Need to add some trim onto the edges of things, at the moment the floor tiles just disappear into nothing, it doesn't look right.

5. Try to think more in "what looks like a realistic impression of a fantasy place" rather than thinking just about "textures".

Basically a good start that could be a great map with some visual etc tweaking. Work with the theme and try to enhance it. 
I Like The Damp Stains On The Walls 
Very nicetouch!:) 
Some Ideas: 
Just did a walk through so these are all about visuals:

- on 45-degree walls, set the horizontal stretch to about 0.7 to get the texture to appear normal (right now those blue lights don't look square on certain walls because of this)

- put a second light source inside each of the sunken 64x64 ceiling lights, to brighten them even more without brightening the rest of the ceiling

- downward or upward-pointing spotlights on walls can help add pop to your lighting and add variety (if only used in some places)

- good use of trim at the water's edge, try doing more of that elsewhere.

- also mostly agree with others' suggestions. 
yay, would love to see some interesting d3 mod. 
Thanks to everyone who took time and gave feedback. It helps a lot. I agree with pretty much everything you have mentioned. However, I'm not sure about the trim stuff. I've added trim to ceiling lights but it's going to be a pain to added to those curved areas. I might take a look at that later :)

Stuff that I have done:
- Opened up areas to improve visuals and gameplay.
- Added more pipes and other details to make areas look more interesting and diverted.
- Added decals to the textures.
- Added trim to ceiling lights.
- Exchanged place on MH and GL.

- Add more details to improve visual quality.
- Continue to add trim to ceiling lights.
- Add some more decals to textures.
- Add "sky" being teleporters.
- Tweaking lighting.

Will try to have the next beta ready by Saturday. I also finally had a chance to play it and I think it plays really well. But I might not be the right person to ask ;)

Thanks again!! 
Ziffon: Woah, Surprise Return From Nowhere! 
What are you up to these days? Still doing the same thing as after your short sbz session? Weren't you doing some hobby shmup btw?

weLl, hello to you to sir :) Nice to meet you again mate. What are you doing these days? Not sure when we spoke the last time, but I'm still at the same place I've been the last 7 years :) Are you doing any levels?

Feels really old.... 
ops missed a "/" before "Feels..."
I should really use the preview function.. 

I haven't really done any levels in a long time. About to start my last art school term. 
Ok :) 
yeah, well I did a GBA demo with a friend.

Sounds cool, do you have a portfolio? Would be interesting to see your stuff :) 
Safe3 Beta 2 
Just finished Beta 2 of Safe 3. Need some more playtesting before moving on and feedback on visuals would be awesome ;) Don't really know where to go from here.

Some screenshots here

And the BSP can be found here 
Please align textures :( And some variety would be nice too. 
Please align textures :( And some variety would be nice too.

this started from the rapid map development thread. finished with layout and gameplay, now doing many many detail passes. 
Sweet! :D 
Team Quakeness 2? 
okej, decided to rework safe3 from scratch. Reasons being gameplay isn't as good as it could be and I'm not sure were to go from here visually. I'll keep the same texture theme and the main cylinder atrium, but I'll be adding some other textures and reworking the architecture a bit to give some more possibilites. Should be fairly quick to get something up and running soon.

I would also like to ask if someone is interested in reviewing more work in progress builds. Posting a beta on the forum requires you to have something which is close to being complete (I assume) and I'd like to bounce a few ideas early. Would be great to be able to send the maps straight to your inbox. Thoughts? Anyone interested?

You can just post screenshots and you'll generally get a few comments.

Of the three posted above the first one could do with the textures being aligned as an anon commented - so the steps match up with the texture trim on the wall.

Just a visual anomaly though - the rest of it looks great. Maybe some of the classic Q2 metal textures thrown in would look good.

Can't really manage any testing at the moment for proper gameplay feedback, just not enough time. 
Odd Shaped Bookcases 
Sock, how many sides does the cable have?

nice bookshelves, too :) 
@gb, the cable is a patch, the thickness scales up and down depending on the distance you are from it. The bookshelf was an idea for filling the wall space, I thought it worked out really well. 
Ziffon dont make areas like this shoot

cuts the bunny jumping! 
Looks to me like that's the idea! Slow down access to a powerful weapon and all that. 
okej :) it wasnt intentional to break the bunny jump. Great feedback as well. I can promisse it will be gone in the next version ;)
Stars And Moons 

wow... impressive.... 
The shape of the room reminds me of the bridge of an imperial star destroyer.

Or im slowly going fruitbat insane! 
Another one of those prefabs... 
that... is cool! please tell me it rotates? ^_^; 
@Daz, yes you are going fruitbat insane! it is meant to be an astronomy room based at the highest point of the map.
@negke, what prefabs? I made it myself, it is not from any other source.
@necros, it does not rotate because Q3 draws all rotating objects regardless of location in the map. 
but not according to that art forum.... 
I think lighting could make it stand out much better. Currently it does not look as impressive as it is (to me). 
In my defence...

Strip out the astronomy spinny thing(tm) and then compare to


Looks great though, Ive been holding off deleting quake 3 so I can have a roam around in this map when its done. 
@negke, oh that place! don't worry I will be going back there with my new screenshots when I have finished my map and I am sure they will react exactly the same way again. :)

@Spirit, yep the lighting is the worst part of mapping for q3 and probably the most annoying thing about this map to me. Some people say it is too bright, too dark or too flat and it is impossible to get it right for everyone. Most of the issues with lighting is simply how everyone has their monitor set up and what type. I must of spent hours (probably days) tweaking the lighting and compiler options based on various feedback and I am still not 100% happy with it!

This room is suppose to be very bright, at least 75% of the walls are glass and the chance of high contrasting shadows is slim to none. I call this room the bird's nest and it certainly makes more sense when you can walk around it and see the whole view.

@Daz, yeah the design could be many things really, the inside of the top of a lighthouse, the top of a ship control center, the excessive glass is for viewing purposes. I am glad to hear you are keeping Q3 for a little longer to give this map a look. :) 
Im Hoping 
I fix my comp before this is out. which gives me what, 1 or 2 years sock?? 
@nitin, I have got a few things to polish (VO, clipping and more details) and that is it, no more, it is finished. I will send a link to some friends this weekend for testing and it should be ready in 1-2 weeks time. (if no major bugsTM) 
re q3w, I'd advise against a minimod or config fiddling. It would only annoy us, probably. 
Rest assure the map will work 100% with Vanilla Q3 and will not be shipped with any mod. One of the original guidelines I had was the map had to take the original Q3 and push it to its limits. If I had made a MOD, most of the impressive factor would be gone. A strange challenge

I admit limiting my work by the engine is unusual, but I wanted to see how much wow factor I could squeeze into the map just using the default settings. It may seem 'cheesey' wanting a wow factor but this is the impression I want the player to get when they enter this map.

The config idea I talking about at Q3W is a simple command line batch file which switches off most of the useless HUD stuff so the player gets the full screen view and lets the immersive sound effects work better. I spent a very long time trying to compliment the environment with sound and it seems a shame to have the dated Q3 HUD spoil it all. 
switching the hud off is a good idea. it's cartoony and designed to stand out which isn't a good thing for this type of map.
man, i really want to play this. ^_^ 
I wanted to see how much wow factor I could squeeze into the map

Already pointed this out... ;p 
Unreal Stuffs 
Messing around in UT3, shaking the rust off my UnrealED skillz ;) 
That's cool! The fire is a little "video gamey" but the lighting and the fog look great! 
Not enough crates/pipes. 
looks very nice! Did you model the rocks yourself? 
Willem: Thanks! Yeah it's been hard to find good fire so far...

Starbuck: Those are are stock UT3 rocks.

It is really nice working with an engine where you can make nice looking scenes with just a couple of hours of work :) I know it's usually blasphemy to post such stuff here but eh... 
Fuck That 
It looks good.

For here you just need to do the same in Q1. 
Those sort of scenes are very welcome to me at least. You've done better with the stock models than I have - I probably don't recognise those rocks because I've been using the limited assets from UDK.

I got a copy of UT3 with a huge Unreal Technology textbook I bought, though. Might install that just to look at all the eyecandy.

On the topic of showing things we haven't spent much time on...

Here's my first attempt making materials in UT3

I was attempting to recreate a desktop wallpaper I made previously: 
dunno about everyone else, but i love seeing shots of stuff from different games. 
I'd post shots of wip Duke / Thief stuff, but I don't know if anyone would want to see those. Don't have anything Quake related in progress afterall. 
UT Stuff 
I totally agree, seeing stuff from other engines is always good as it may inspire others to try out new stuff as well.

Blitz, I really like how the diffuse light works with the ground textures and background rock. What did you do in this scene? You say these are original assets, but what it is original and what is you? Did you model anything in this scene? Sorry for lots of questions, I am very curious as I plan to look at UED next.

starbuck, looking good, I have downloaded the UED as well. I am looking forward to playing around with it as soonly. Please remember to come back and post updates. :) 

All of the assets are from UT3, I made the ground terrain with the terrain tool. I still don't really know entirely what I'm doing in terms of getting stuff to look nice other than just tweaking it by sight.

I wish I had better tips for you but I don't really know the ins and outs of the Unreal engine :) I'm sure Willem does though! 
Some Shots 
Questionable texture choices imo but it sure does have that Doom feel :) Cool shots. 
That's not Doom is it? :O 
Hahaha. Yeah, I was thinking it good for Quake but if that's Doom - HOLY CRAP! 
I Thought It Was Obvious 
Stop Trying To Sexually Harass That Cyberdemon! 
I just assumed it was Quake with Doom textures ~_~ until I noticed the lighting didn't look like Quake lighting and then I was like "Whoa that's not Quake ~_~ at all" and I posted about it :o 
looks awesome, glad you're following your heart. 
Resurrection Of Evil ? 
Nah: It is Resurrection of Doom !

Anyway: looks promising ;) 
I recently reinstalled Doom to play/replay and catch up on a ton of wads I missed out. Looks neat, has just the right amount of details and a good texture scheme going on there. I'm worried the first room might be a bit too tight, but that depends on the approach to gameplay. Hopefully it comes out before I get bored of Doom again, looking forward to it. 
Some More UT3 Work

I'll probably keep posting these every couple of days for feedback and general comments until I finish it (which should be pretty soon, so I won't spam you into oblivion with these :)) 
Not sure that link will actually work...try this if it doesn't... 
it's cool, but the 3 buildings to the right are completely devoid of lighting (beyond ambient). drop some in there to get some nice shadows going. 
Does Ue3 Support Baked Lighting? 
i thought it did, but i'm wondering why every other screenshot i see looks so shitty in the more diffuse areas where you need global illumination. And then, it even does support one or two bounces of dynamic gi, does it? At least there were some videos that showed an effect like that. 
Unreal Tournament 3 doesn't have a global illumination solution, but the UDK does. UE3, the engine, does but it was added after UT3 shipped. 
Likely Won't Be A Masterpiece 
Combining several recent mini-projects together into a prototype test and decided the best type of test would be a small single player release.

FitzQuake 0.85 (which supports .alpha) + rotation support + mp3 playback + Nexuiz texture set: 
baker maps! 
Oh No! 
I was real close to finishing the updated "Well of Wishes" and now, because of Negke, I've gone and wasted an entire morning playing my old DooM levels. I even downloaded a DooM level editor! (I hope I can find a copy of that last DooM map I never finished). 
More Wip Shots 
Some more shots of my level

Really starting to get into this...I could definitely see myself enjoying working on some more Unreal stuff in the future :) 
...from me, for Duke3D if anyone (!) cares. Still early stages. 
Blitz: That's looking great, but the road with cars in the side of the mountain looks out of place with the Shinto temple theme.

quakis: Holy shit that's Duke 3D? Is that like a custom engine or something or does Duke3D just look better than I remember it? 
That Exactly What I Thought 
on both accounts 
blitz: i'm not trying to be an ass, but it's hard for me to comment on it because i'm not sure what you created and what was original ut assets... on the surface, it looks really nice, but, for example, did you make the rocks/mountains and the temple? i guess the status on top of the building is a stock model?
i think you really have to know the game to be able to properly critique it because otherwise, you don't know what's new and what's part of the stock game. 
With newer engines, it's not so much about what you made yourself as it is reaching a certain level of detail and polish, which takes enough time as it is without having to worry about making custom assets.

You could very easily dismiss someone posting screenshots of a Crysis level and say "oh it only looks good because the engine makes it look good" or "the artists did all the work for you" but that'd be missing the point of what kind of skills it takes on the designer's end to make it look that good. They may not be the exact same skills that it takes to make a cool Quake level, but they're still skills nonetheless.

So yeah, nothing in that screenshot is anything that I made in 3dsmax or anything, but putting the scene together, lighting it, creating the terrain, scripting it, etc. etc. takes a good amount of work :) 
that's cool. i guess i was waiting for you to define the boundaries on which you wanted critique. if you're after feedback on the overall composition, i'd say it's pretty good, although i agree with zwiffle in that the tunnel filled with busted cars seems out of place with the temples. if there was a stronger thematic connection between the two, that would really help.
also, why are the windows on the two temples in the first shot different colours? it's kind of distracting, like the further, dimmer one, is less important.

btw, is it possible to upload larger screenshots? they are wide, but not tall which makes seeing details pretty much impossible. 
Way to go. Regard it as inspiration or something. Be sure to use Doombuilder 2, it's final word in Doom mapping. 
Wow, DoomBuilder looks amazing! That's a far cry from what I used back in the day ... I think it was DCK? Whichever one Ben Morris had written. I thought it was hot shit because it showed sprites in the 2D editor window but man, I would have killed for a 3D view like that. :) 
Both really. I use Eduke32 port, which does increase some limits. But stuff like that was possible before any port release, it's just the limits got in the way more often if you went overboard.

Some shots from other projects (on hold at the moment) The former two I'll probably get back to after my current. Unsure about the latter two. 
DoomBuilder Is What I Downloaded 
And it's awesome. I used DoomCad for the first Doom level I ever did (took like 45 mins to build the nodes), I moved on to DCK for the later levels I did.

I did several levels for a Doom 2 Megawad/TC that, other than my maps, I didn't think turned out all that great. One of my maps was a modified version of Polygon Base, but the other two were never released separately. I've always wanted to that. Now maybe I will. 
Wow, That Duke Stuff Is Impressive 
More High Res Quake Textures 
Some of you may remember I released a pack of high-res idbase textures a while back (thread here).

I've been messing around with textures again... my plan right now is to get E1M2 done. Early early days, but in the recent spirit of the thread, I thought I'd show my progress.

The plan, as always, is to stay as close to the style of the original textures as possible! 
Hey Starbuck 
sex meh! 
And Err, Shambler 
You scare me sometimes!

very cool, good job on preserving the original look! :) 
Looks Pretty Damn Impressive 
Its Like 
the original.....but clearer .... :O! 
OMG YES! Now THERE'S a man after my own heart. Those are awesome replacements, man, nice work! Totally true to the original feel but rezzed up nicely. Beautiful! 
Well Done Starbuck. 
In remaining so faithful and respectful to the original game you've done for Quake texturing what Metl did for enhanced engines and Kell & Necros did for enhanced features.

Your Base set was the only retex project I allowed to stay on my HDD and these new ones look set to do the same! 
Nice Work 
Nearing Public Beta.... 
I have alot of crap I still want to do to this map but soon I'll have finished replacing the textures I need to to be able to release a public beta...

Looking forward to those textures!
They look really fantastic! 
Enhanced Textures 
You make me feel like having a carwash! 
aww shucks, many thanks for the kind words for those textures. Text_Fish especially - I agree that metl/kell/necros have done a ridiculously good job keeping true to the quake spirit in their work, and it's warm and fuzzy to be mentioned in the same breath.

Will keep some screenies coming! 
Omg, Rubicon2 Leaked 
DM only??!?!
Actually looks pretty neat! 
Those make me want to ... grab them and apply them to e1m2rq, and ... put a Starbuck's logo next to the ferrari one. Awesome, awesome. Motivation++ (much needed)

Keep doing that... 
DM1RQ, too.

More UT3 screens, though those will probably be the last I post for a bit as I'm getting close to finishing what I'm working on 
lol Blitz I still don't get the point of the cars, but at least the lighting around the highway-tunnel bit is fuckin sweet. Everything else looks top notch, maybe a bit sparse in the first shot (lots of open space it seems.)

Is this just a DM level you're working on? 
is there a way you can reduce the light hitting the hedges at the bottom in shot1 (the hedges are also visible to the left in shot2). they seem to be positively glowing, brighter than every other leaf.
i guess that's the just the texture that's bright, except that it draws your eyes away.

i like all the vegetation in shot3 as well as the uneven interlocking bricks. could you maybe take 1 or 2 bricks out of the floor in the center and just leave a hole? or maybe break a couple? you've got the sides covered in dirt which is good, but it seems to me the center is where everyone's walking which is where it would be broken and worn down.

still don't know why the windows on the rear building in shot1 are a different shade of orange from the other two.

overall, very sweet looking map. :) 
I know its my view but I just finished Daikantana and I can't help feeling somewhere deep in that pagode Heroshima still contemplates the parting of Mekiko and Superfly Johnson.
In that view I can fit in a broken prisonwall with cars around Alcatraz. 
Shots look very good ! Good job ! 
Really slick:
Hardware-Accelerated Global Illumination
by Image Space Photon Mapping 
Retexture in medieval plz and no Quoth monsters xxx 
No Quoth 
No Quoth? 
Why the Quoth hate?

I admit I don't necessarily love Quoth, but I certainly don't hate it either.

So what's the deal? 
Because Its 
for remake quake? 
it runs Quoth maps, too, but only if it has to. 
I wasn't decreeing that Ricky can't release a Quoth version as well, just that v1 is for Remake Quake.

And we added backwards compatibility for some mods as well - including Quoth - so a Quoth version could be made that also works inside RMQ.

Running it under Quoth would produce a load of errors, but it'd still be playable. 
And I wasn't decreeing that V1 must be for RMQ either... just saying it.