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Mapping Help
This is the place to ask about mapping problems, techniques, and bug fixing, and pretty much anything else you want to do in the level editor.

For questions about coding, check out the Coding Help thread: http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60097
Waitaminute... 
What if I have a bezier patch on my crack? I mean, do I need a shot or something? 
lol 
This Thread Is Obsolete 
Are there really any people that need mapping help ? 
Sure... 
I mean, unlike you, who knows EVERYTHING about mapping and never, EVER have any problems getting things running. 
Well 
i think so cos its useful as a discussion to solve bugs and other stuff even if some guys are "PROS". after all. not everyone is a l33t sp mapper. 
Q1 Mapping In Wc3.3 
like, hello, wtf is going on with teleports? Or am i just being dumbass cos i havent mapped since god knows when? 
<quote>Or am i just being dumbass cos i havent mapped since god knows when?</quote>

it's possible... ;)

seriously, make sure the info_teleport_destination has enough room for the player, and make sure the target/targetnames match up.

it would be nice to know a little more of your problem though, dude... 
2 Questions 
1:
To bring more contrast in a map using Q1rad I'd like to change the radius of an ordinary light without changing the brightness.
(Sort of like the _cone2 function for a light_spot)?
Is this possible?

2:
When starting up the map I get: edict.. yada yada... 'pitch' is not a field.
As far as i know I fed in proper values for the pitch of the light source and it displays correct in the map so no nead to worrie or..?!

Is it a question or my .fgd file not being able to handle this pitch function for Q1rad? 
But 'pitch' ISN'T A Field! 
it really isn't a field, in Quake at least. Most custom light compilers make their extra field names start with underscore so that the engine will ignore them. Example: _wait, _color, etc. If q1rad has a 'pitch' field added, then you're going to have to put up with the in-game warnings, unless you remove it from the bsp after running q1rad. I think this can be done with a program that tyrann wrote that remove everything except the 'classname' and 'light' fields from a light entity. Or maybe it's 'classname' and 'origin.' Look around for it. 
For Lights In A Bsp, 
only the classname is important. (and any target/targetname fields too). the actual entity is not even needed (i think) if the light is non-switchable, since all the lighting is already pasted onto the walls from the light utility. if you don't have tyrann's program, just go in edit.exe, (or notepad) and replace 'pitch' with '_pitch'. 
Sounds Interesting! 
Thanks, I'll try to get my bsp-act together :)

No way to change the radius (question1) I guess!? 
Yea 
I'd like to know this too. It's quite difficult to light an area correctly if that light that will do it has to be blindingly bright... :( 
More Contrst With Radiocity 
lower -bounce # 
Well Yes.. 
but that is like -scale: lowering the range of all the lights in the map... 
Ere 
its not really
lazy to explain, just try it
less bounce - more contrast 
Netvis For Q1 
Is there a netvis version for quake?
I saw it there ->>
http://www.bluesnews.com/archives/nov97-1.html
but the link is dead.
anyone have this util? 
Hmm 
You could run Beowulf or some distributed computing software if you want to run vis on many PCs 
Refering To #15 
lazy to explain, but it's not the answer to Wazat's and my question. 
Win Xp And Worldcraft 
In case you missed the thread I posted...here again is my desperate plea for help...

I am having a lot of trouble getting Worldcraft v1.6a to work properly with Windows XP. I did not have these types of problems when running Worldcraft on Windows 98. The problems generally result when trying to compile a map.

Here is an error that I am currently getting:

A window pops up after attempting to run the map: �The file C:\QUAKE\ID1\maps\Test1e was not built, do you want to continue�
______________________________________________________________________
When I click �Yes� I get a new window with the following error:

�The command failed. Windows reported the error: �Invalid Argument� Do you want to continue?�
______________________________________________________________________

So I click Yes again and I get the following Error:
Quake Error: �W_LoadWadFile: couldn�t load gfx.wad�

______________________________________________________________________

A separate �Process Window� is also open from the time of the first error message and the following is diplayed:

** Executing...
** Command: C:\wc\Q1Tools\LIGHT.EXE
** Parameters: C:\QUAKE\ID1\maps\Test1e

----- LightFaces ----
************ ERROR ************
Error opening C:\QUAKE\ID1\maps\Test1e.bsp: No such file or directory

** Executing...
** Command: C:\wc\Q1Tools\Vis.exe
** Parameters: C:\QUAKE\ID1\maps\Test1e

---- vis ----
************ ERROR ************
Error opening C:\QUAKE\ID1\maps\Test1e.bsp: No such file or directory

** Executing...
** Command: Change Directory
** Parameters: c:\quake\winquake.exe

The command failed. Windows reported the error:
"Invalid argument"

** Executing...
** Command: C:\QUAKE\winquake.exe
** Parameters: +map Test1e


** Executing...
** Command: Copy File
** Parameters: "C:\QUAKE\OURMAP~1\Test1e.map" "C:\QUAKE\ID1\maps\Test1e.map"


** Executing...
** Command: C:\wc\Q1Tools\QBSP.EXE
** Parameters: C:\QUAKE\ID1\maps\Test1e

outputfile: C:\QUAKE\ID1\maps\Test1e.bsp
************ ERROR ************
Token too large on line 3
______________________________________________________________________

Can anyone offer some help with this problem and get me back on track with my map making hobby?

I am most grateful
:=)

I would also be grateful to learn if anyone is using a better editor for making Quake 1 maps, or if they have a program(s) that can compile and/or decompile maps. 
Dude 
try this
place in the directory where your .map file is all the idutils, i.e. qbsp.exe, vis.exe, light.exe
open dosprompt, and go to that dir
and run all the compilers manually, i.e.
qbsp.exe yourmap.map
vis.exe yourmap.bsp
light.exe yourmap.bsp
if there will be any errors, report

and of course, youse gtkradiant to make q1 maps (www.qeradiant.com) 
Thanks I'll Try It! 
Vondur,

Thank you, I will try it and see what happens.

I have been trying very hard to obtain information from the internet as to how to learn to make Quake-1 maps with either QERadiant or GTKRadiant, but have been largely unsuccessful. I understand that some modifications must be made to these programs in order to make Quake-1 maps, but I do not understand what they are.

I did find this link [url]http://www.qeradiant.com/?data=games/quake[/url] but it states there that a Quake game editing pack for GtkRadiant has not been released :(.

Do you (or anyone else) have information on how to modify GtkRadiant or QERadiant to make Quake-1 maps. If not, can you point me toward sources on the internet where I can find such information? In your response please bear in mind that I am only a novice.

Thanks Again,
:=) 
:=) Go To 
Http://www.planetquake.com/necros/gtkrq1.html 
Help On Terrain Mapping 
Is there tutorials on mapping rocks or mountains?
(just in map editor)
thanks! 
Help On Terrain Mapping 
Is there tutorials on mapping rocks or mountains?
(just in map editor)
thanks! 
Terrain Mapping 
Texturing Question 
When you want a damaging liquid there only seems to be three choices: red lava, green slime, brown toxic waste. And even the toxic waste is rather unusual. Are there any other options out there? Particularly for Q3.

It would be cool to have some sort of non-transparent blue liquid with lighting arcing acorss it, but that's well beyond my skills to do. :) 
Hmm 
Well in Q1 it's easy, just create the texture and call it something with either *water *slime or *lava at the front of the name.

Q3 you can do it, just mess around with the shaders. 
Scrags In The Void 
Quake, WC1.6 full

I don't want unlit scrags pounding players from out in the void.
I understand the level of monster illumination is a function of the light level of the surface beneath the baddie.
Possible solution: "sunlight" = 100 with an a mangle of 0 90 0 in the worldspawn then use neg lights around the columns descending into the void.
Does this sound right? Don't want to place a gazillion neg lights if it ain't gonna work. 
You Can Also 
make sure the sky is black, then make a func_illusionary brush of black that hovers a few units above the sky floor, then make a spotlight with light value of 150-200, no falloff and angle of 180 
But... 
sky surfaces don't have lightmaps. 
So... 
under the sky floor, have a real floor. and forget about the func_illusionary. 
I Guess That Is What I Meant... 
I just need people to translate my invalid suggestions first... 
And The Illusionary... 
was suggested to be placed there because ...use neg lights around the columns descending into the void. implies that there will be columns going down there, and if one puts a spotlight by them then you'll see one or two lightmap-units of brightness on said columns... 
Eh 
And right now I understood what was meant in post #32, so I'll just STFU and go sit in the corner for a while 
Aaaah.... 
Sky surfaces don't have lightmaps That's a very handy piece of info to know. Thanx metl and czg (get out of that corner man!) I'm using a starfield so the "real" floor under the skytexz will do the trick.

Oh...and the way I'm building should stop the annoying horizontal skytexz warping.

<beer> all round 
What If You Put 
a brush inside the skybrush? would the lightmap of the brush work, or would the skybrush's lightmap still be used instead... 
Texturing Question Redux 
I'm aware that with a little shader manipulation I could make a plaid sea of death, but I was wondering if anybody else has already come across/made any interesting alternatives. 
Batch Files? Batch Files? We Don't Have No Stinkin' Batch Files! 
Thank you Vondur, Hrimfaxi, and Necros for the replies. I tried your advice Vondur but I end up with error messages still.

Can someone explain what a batch file is and how to implement it? Or can you at least direct me to where I can read about this?

Again My Thanks 
Well... 
an batch file is just a text file which contains bunches of commands, one after another in order.

say, you wanted to open the windows/temp folder, backup everything, then delete everything in thee.

you would write in the batch file:
c:
cd\windows\temp
copy *.* c:\backup
deltree


making a batch file for compiling is very similar.

if you wanted one to compile a map, you would put in your qbsp, vis and light commands in there.

a handy thing you can do, is use %1 %2 %3...%9 to pass on commands from the prompt.
%1 is simply the next string of text after the batch program's name.
example: if the program is called n.bat
you type:
n var1

if you put %1 anywhere in your batch file, it will be replaced with var1
ex:
qbsp %1.map
vis %1.bsp
light %1.bsp
copy %1.bsp c:\quake


all the '%1' would read as 'var1' instead, giving you:
qbsp var1.map
vis var1.bsp
light var1.bsp
copy var1.bsp c:\quake


if you still are unsure, check out my guide again (http://www.planetquake.com/necros/gtkrq1.html). the blue text at the bottom is an example of my batch file. the lines starting with 'rem' are remarks. (and don't do anything. sort of line comments in qc (//) or qbasic (') or whatever)

finaly, to make a batch file, you must either: go into dos prompt (or command prompt if your using XP) and type 'edit'. write all your stuff and save, or use notepad (or similar text program) and replace the '.txt' or '.doc' with '.bat'.

not sure if this will make it totally clear or not. i'm considering adding this type of explanation to my guide, btw... 
The Guide, Btw Is Supposed To Be: 
http://www.planetquake.com/necros/gtkrq1.html

metlslime, you really gotta get rid of that line saving thing... it's killing the urls... 
I Agree 
It's hard to see where a link is supposed to go. :( 'twas a good idea tho. 
Um... 
necros, Wazat: hover your mouse over the link and read the address on the bottom of the browser window? 
I Know, But It's Unattractive Still. 
:) 
Yeah, But If The Link Is Busted, Ie: 
(http://www.longdomainname.com/longthing/long/long/long.html)
or if someone types
dfs

it's annoying to have to retype it just so people can see it. at least before, if you busted a link, people would still be able to tell what the url was. 
I Agree With Necros! 
its awkward for no good reason :P

and things that are awkward for no good reason suck. in fact, there is no good reason for a thing to ever be awkward. 
Necros 
Agreed. See my "Celebrity Look Alikes" thread. 
It Builds Character! 
 
Yeah... 
...But so does freaky prison-rape sex.

Wait, forget I said that. I'm afraid of what you're response will be.

<RPG> metlslime, if I told you to go to http://www.chickswithdicks.com would you go?
<metlslime> rpg: no, unless they have new pics.
 
Should Be "your" Not "you're" 
 
Lol 
(lol)X3 
Qmodel 
I can't get them out of my map-wantings...
Awh..?
Those rats in "Malice"!
How is it been done, since me is told, that for each model you change, another has to quit.
Can't find anything about them, wrote myself a "rat.qc" but it doesn't seem to work.
Did that guys from Malice put some exta heapsize-memory in their progs.dat or something.
Their "MercBabe" I could change for the soldier, so now she's running as an Amazone in Quake1.
But that rats, got plenty of corridors for them, but I can't find the "cheesy" script they run on! 
Triggering Lights 
I'm trying to finish a small SP Q1 map and I'd like to know how, at the entrance of a room, I could trigger the lighting of a long stair one step at a time. I've thought of the tripwire thing, with a trigger_once starting up other trigger_once(s) linked to lights, but you can't affect a targetname to a trigger_once. So what would you suggest? 
Um... 
Lots and lots of trigger_relays? 
All Right, Don't Bother 
I've found the trigger_relay which does just what I want.
But here's another question: no animated image (water, slime, buttons, whatever) will work in the map I'm making, whether they are hand made by myself or they come from the original Quake texture pak. Has it happened to anyone before and how do you get that right? 
Oops, Sorry, RPG 
You've posted your answer while I was writing mine. Right, trigger_relays do the trick. Thanks. 
Heheh 
I dunno why your water/slime isn't warping, though. As long as it's named *water or *lava it should be fine.

As far as the animated buttons go, all the texture frames have to be compiled into the .bsp. Some QBSP compilers don't automatically do this, so you have to "hide" the other animation frames on unseen surfaces like the back side of the button, or just a brush out in the void. 
Thanks, RPG 
Some QBSP compilers don't automatically do this, so you have to "hide" the other animation frames on unseen surfaces like the back side of the button, or just a brush out in the void

I did just that and it worked. But it had never happened to me before and I haven't changed my QBSP compiler (as far as i know - it's been such a long time...); anyway, out of 3, it's the only one that doesn't crash when compiling, so I have to use it.
Anybody could point me to good compilers? I work with WC 1.6 (I'm too old to change now). 
Oh, And Another Thing 
How do you rid your textures of fullbrights? Some that I made appear luminous in the dark when using FitzQuake (and maybe other engines too); I've looked up in Wally, TexMex, Adquedit, but to no avail.
Help, pleezzz! 
Dilvish: 
Two methods:

1) there's an option in texmex to disallow fullbrights. It's in the "workspace" tab of the "preferences" dialog. Note that this setting will only affect newly imported images (like those pasted from the clipboard.) You cannot simply open up a wad and then uncheck this box and expect the whole wad to be fixed.

2) set up a special quake palette where the fullbright colors (last 32 indices) are some garish color (i use bright green, since there isn't anything close in the normal palette.) Then, in your paint prog, before you copy the image and paste it in texmex, you convert your image to that special palette. 
Metl 
Thanks a lot for the tips; one problem I have is that I have a lot of textures with fullbrights and I have to rename each of them when importing them into TexMex. Is there no way to do a batch conversion? 
Metl 
Thanks a lot for the tips; one problem I have is that I have a lot of textures with fullbrights and I have to rename each of them when importing them into TexMex. Is there no way to do a batch conversion? 
Bang! Two Posts For The Price Of One! 
Sorry 
Dilvish: 
i don't know of any program that can batch remove fullbrights from a wad. 
Metlslime: 
All right, thanx; I'll do it by hand then, or not at all. BTW, why do fullbrights appear luminous in some engines (FitzQuake) and not in others (GlQuake 1.13)? Any idea? 
Laziness, Or Choices Of Engine Programmer 
The new engine programmers were sick of everything being so dull and dark and such in glquake, so they made things come out like they ought to. However, that causes problems on the other end.... 
Um, 
Dilvish, you could try importing all the textures from the fullbrights wad into a new wad. that could do the trick.

and fullbrights can be usefull, but i personally hate them - in software quake and glquake. 
Bah 
fullbrights are good, they are only a problem with clueless mappers
Anyway in most new engines they are switchable.

To mass remove fullbrights export all the textures to .pcx, uncheck fullbrights in texmex (view/preferemces/workspace) and import all the pcx into a new wad.
Or mass comvert to fullbrights-less palette with PS/PSP (it can be even faster) 
Speedy 
Or mass comvert to fullbrights-less palette with PS/PSP (it can be even faster)

I've tried that in PSP, but couldn't find how. Fact is, I'm no longer very much used to using PSP and lots of trix have slipped out of my mind. How do you do that in PSP (or PS), please? 
Dilvish: 
BTW, why do fullbrights appear luminous in some engines (FitzQuake) and not in others (GlQuake 1.13)? Any idea?

they don't appear luminous in glquake becuase glquake is a proof-of-concept carmack threw together over a weekend as research for q2. They don't appear luminous in other engines becuase some engine coders don't care enough about them to fix them. They appear luminous in Fitzquake becuase i consider their absence a bug. 
 
There is 'actions' menu in photoshop that lets you record any actions, and file/batch process (if I`m not mistaking) to apply the actions to images or entire folded. Dont know about PSP. May be manual or could help you. Or google. 
Vertex Editing 
Can anyone point me toward some good resources on vertex manipulation. Specifically, how to build convincing natural terrain with the vertex editing tool in Hammer. 
Um, Sky Texture Problem... 
Can't I have a complete black sky texture? (Q1) I made one in wally and when I use it, it shows as a scrambled brown...

it's named skyblack.. and of course if I don't have it set as a sky tex, any firing at it will hit it as if its a wall which is not what I want...

I'd rather use black than star sky for this Coagula map, personally... 
Oh And Also... 
I have a fully white texture that I don't want as a fullbright - just plain white and I made a square room with this tex, stuck a 500 light entity in the middle.. run the test map and it appears as a fullbright - dont want that! what do i dooooooooooooo 
Phait... 
Follow the link from UnderWorldFan to the last Coagula contest and d/l the pak. Rip the sky texture out of one of Elek's levels.

Try using one of the pale textures from Killjoy's kjsp1.bsp instead of the white fullbrite 
Ah What The Hell... 
I'll send you the textures tomorrow. 
Phait: 
i'm guessing that your black sky texture is not 256x128. All sky textures must be that size. As for the white, there is only one white in the quake palette, and it is fullbright. Your best choice is palette index 15 (RGB 235, 235, 235) which is a very light grey and not fullbright.

You should also check out my quake texture faq:
http://www.celephais.net/stuff/texturefaq.htm 
Thanks 
God I love this place already. GROUP HUG!

(with a rocket launcher) 
Question... 
is there a site that has all the limits for glquake, dos/winquake? (like, maximum faces, etc...)

also, how many brushes can treebsp.exe handle? 
Aww Crap... 
i just got this error whilst compiling my map...

it's the txqbsp that was modified by aguire...
Reached the Limit MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES (32768), cannot continue...

(there was a leak in the map)

my question: will fixing this leak reduce these clipnodes, or am i still screwed even if i find the leak? or... is there a way to increase the limit or will quake pack up and leave? 
Necros: 
i believe that a sealed map will have fewer clipnodes. I'm not totally sure about that, and i'm too tired to actually root through the qbsp source to verify. But sealing your maps is always a good thing, so you might as well do it :) 
Seal It 
A sealed map will have _far_ less clipnodes. Clipnodes are basically just places that you can walk. If you can walk outside the map, then there's a huge number of clipnodes out there. 
You Could Try 
adding the option "-fill" to Tree/TxQBSP. This will force fill hulls 1/2 (the clipping hulls) even if they leak, thus significantly reducing the total # clipnodes generated.

When loading the map in GLQuake, the player and probably most other entities are stuck so you have to use noclip to move around and find the leak after loading the pointfile. See the readme for details.

AFAIK, the MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES limit cannot be increased (the bsp format doesn't allow this). 
Compiler Limits 
can be found in the header (*.h) files of the source code.

Max # of brushes is 65536 in TxQBSP and practically limitless in TreeQBSP. I've never seen a map that exceeds these brush limits.

Also, since the compiler transforms the brushes into planes (among other things), the engine will never see any brushes at all. 
What Should I Do With This? O_____o 
Quake 1 Palette 
does anyone have a photoshop .act of the quake 1 palette? thinkin of makin some textures, im at least good at that 
Phait 
That map would make a good dm arena, or a good battle mech arena if it's made the right size.

Just make sure you close it up first. :) 
Battle Mech.... 
im not interested in that mod o.0
not sure what ill do with it, i got real pissed off.. nothing but good work is coming from me now 
 
http://www.planetquake.com/speedy/Quakepalettes.zip

quake with and w/o fullbrights, q2 and hexen photoshop palettes 
Thanks 
thanks 
Pointfiles 
the .lin files are pointfiles in quake3 right? if i take a .pts file (from q1) and change the extension, i should be able to see the point file in gtkr, right? 
Hmm 
If you run a compile from inside Radiant then it'll highlight the leak in editor (useful if your batch compile process comes up with one). 
Yeah, 
i was doing that.

except, the q3 compiler seems to be more tolerant to leaks or the q1 compiler was picking up ones that aren't considered leaks in q3. (q3 has the super complex geometry, which sometimes kills q1 compilers)

so yeah. it works. 
 
Other editors can also load leak files and display where leakage goes (not as good as gtk tho) 
Message Breaks 
I know there's a way in worldcraft to put in a line break in Messages i.e. in trigger_multiple - but what is it? 
If I Had To Guess 
It would be \n. 
Tried... 
that, didnt work 
Yes, But Is It REAL Goat Jizm? 
Try using this:

/n 
lol 
Missing Items.. 
How do I remedy missing ammo/weapons/items in maps? For instance I have some ammo beneath spotlights and some don't show. I could reposition, but I like them under the spotlights...

using Worldcraft 
Hmm 
Are they by any chance next to walls, since WC has a problem, where the in editor placement is actually 16 units off of the actual placement on both the horizontal axis. 
Worldcraft Has Broken Item Origins 
I think metlslime or somebody has a fixed .fgd. In the mean time, try putting the lower-left corner of each box where you want its center should be. 
Bleh 
yeah tried somethin like that, dunno, i just totally re-arranged the item placement.

expect PH8DM1 to be up tonight. it was originally my coagula map but i just pulled it all from my ass and had no idea where it was going but it makes a decent DM.

Heh.. 
Sometimes 
i thought they "fall" through stuff. i had it when using the same map for q1 and q2 (same rmf, different textures and compilers). never had it otherwise... 
Monsters Dropping Items 
Is this possible? How? 
To Elaborate... 
I mean when a monster is killed, lets say it drops an item such as ammo or a key, etc. 
You'll Likely Want To Edit The Code... 
There's a way to do some dropping but not all using just the map editor. Grunts, ogres and enforcers drop backpacks, which means you can give them anything that gets passed on from players through backpacks: weapons and ammo. Unfortunately, these monsters directly set the amount of ammo they have for their own weapon, so there are certain ammo's you can't set for certain monsters.

Grunts can carry any ammo except shells (they will invariably have 5 shells in their backpack no matter what you set it to).
Enforcers can carry any ammo except cells.
Ogres can carry any ammo except rockets.
To set the ammo values, use these:
ammo_shells
ammo_nails
ammo_rockets
ammo_cells

The 3 monsters can carry any weapon you want:
float IT_AXE = 4096;
float IT_SHOTGUN = 1;
float IT_SUPER_SHOTGUN = 2;
float IT_NAILGUN = 4;
float IT_SUPER_NAILGUN = 8;
float IT_GRENADE_LAUNCHER = 16;
float IT_ROCKET_LAUNCHER = 32;
float IT_LIGHTNING = 64;

Simply set the monster's "weapon" value to the number you want (note that in most mods dropping an axe or shotgun is pointless...).

Unfortunately, if you want to drop keys, runes, or other tidbits, or you want any monster to be able to drop them, you're going to have to edit the QC code so that the drop backpack function in items.qc includes keys and runes for monster deaths (or preferrably creates another dropped item that looks like the key, so that it's not hidden in a backpack!). You'll also want to make sure that your dropped key will never delete itself or dissapear... 
Thanks But..... 
I know nothing about C++ much less Quake C, lol. Oh well, I'll just.. figure an alternative. 
Phait Get My Dropit QC Plugin :) 
Help Find Textures 
Does anybody know where can I find dinosaur age themed textures or anything like that (cave textures, stones, bones, swamp, etc)
I've got some ideas about Q1DM map and need some textures for it. 
PuLSaR... 
Would the "Tomb Raider" textures on Fatty's site be of any help? 
� CLIP � 
There's one thing I still don't get about BSP's, and it's really a shame to ask this after 4 or 5 years mapping, but

I still don't know how to make CLIPs. CLIPS WITHOUT A BRUSH. I can't believe that every mapper that use clips manipulate the .map files manually or tell QBSP to skip leafs or Idonno. Almost everyone knows how to separate a clip from its brush but me. And it's very embarassing, coz I know that it's a mostly basic thing in mapping.

Please help!! 
Distrans 
Thanx. I'll take a look 
Something Very Strange... 
if doing a -fast on vis is fast, and a -level 4 is slow, than it stands to reason that a -level 1 should be faster than -fast but slower than -level 4.

well, doing a -level 1 on my map gives an estimate of 298 hours (!), whilst a -level 3 gives an estimate of 6.5 hours.

i'm not really seeing the logic here... any reasons?

i'm using aguiRe's modified RVis+ 
Oh... 
one more thing, and this question is directed to aguiRe... why do the percentages sometimes jump back down... for instance:
Full: 36.0%, Elapsed: 17:37, Left: 1:03:38, Total: 1:21:15, 21%
Full: 37.0%, Elapsed: 20:27, Left: 1:43:15, Total: 2:03:42, 16%
Full: 38.0%, Elapsed: 21:41, Left: 1:42:59, Total: 2:04:40, 17%
Full: 39.0%, Elapsed: 22:57, Left: 1:48:26, Total: 2:11:23, 17%
Full: 40.0%, Elapsed: 24:54, Left: 1:29:00, Total: 1:53:54, 21%
Full: 41.0%, Elapsed: 27:28, Left: 1:53:44, Total: 2:21:12, 19%
Full: 42.0%, Elapsed: 30:09, Left: 2:19:12, Total: 2:49:21, 17%
Full: 43.0%, Elapsed: 33:48, Left: 2:49:06, Total: 3:22:54, 16%
 
Necros 
Well, I'm not aguiRe, but it's because the time remaining is only an estimate. The first percentage is like normal rvis+, the second percentage is the how much of the total estimated compile time has elapsed. When the estimate gets updated, this percentage figure jumps around with it. 
Leafface 
It sounds like you are confused about what clip brushes are.

A clip brush is just a brush that has the clip texture applied to all it's faces. When the map is compiled, this brush will be invisible, but you won't be able to walk through it. You can shoot through it though.

The things you are saying above don't make sense. 
Leafface 
If your talking Q1 or Half-Life, clip is simply a texture whose filename is
clip

Apply that to all faces of a brush and presto!
Just make sure you use the clip texture that appears in all wads by default. The id clip texture looks like this:

http://www.signsofkoth.co.uk/clip.jpg 
Vis Estimation 
Tyrann's right about the 2nd percent figure depending on the current estimation. This in turn is updated when the integer part of the 1st percent figure changes (e.g. when 40.6 becomes 41.3).

It may seem confusing at first, but that 2nd percent figure (which may go up or down) is the most important number on the line, since it's a clear indication of how the process advances.

Usually, the vis process is fast in the beginning and then slows down more or less during its lifespan. Therefore the estimation is more accurate in the later stages (unfortunately).

As for different vis levels behaving strangely, I've seen that as well. Sometimes I've seen vis got stuck completely when using "unusual" levels (1-3). Therefore I strongly recommend only using fast and level 4 for normal operation.

If level 4 is too slow (298 hours *is* slow ...) and you won't settle for fast vis (which is recommended for maps with very open nature), then I suggest looking for the standard methods; vis blockers, func_walls for detail brushes etc.

With my version of RVis you have an extra indicator "max leafs visible" for help tracking down spots with high r_speeds. Normally, the long vis processing times can be *significantly* reduced by doing some small changes to the map and with only minor appearance effects.

Remember, long vis processing times is normally an indication of vis failing completely, not that it will do a good job. If you don't want to change the map, then settle for fast vis or even *no* vis if the map is open enough, i.e. arena-like.

If you need help with the map, just let me know. 
Func_walls For Detail Brushes.. 
Elaborate - what's the advantage? 
Func_walls 
Detail refers to any solid, visible architecture ( so that exculdes clip and triggers ) that doesn't complicate the compile process' divisions of the 2D surfaces and 3D spaces.

Example:
If you have a flat wall with a thin light fixture ( like the square plate with a gothic cross light ) then the wall, despite being only a single brush, will be fragmented into several surfaces around the light fixture. Also, volume of space around that feature will be divided up into several smaller volumes to fit around the protruding metal plate.
By making the light fixture 'detail' it no longer interupts the compiler's cutting-up of your .map, so it can use far fewer surfaces; the wall might consequently be made of only 2 or even 1 surface.

Quake 2 and 3 both have detail as an option; Quake 1 and Half-Life do not.
Using proper Q2/3 detail makes the light fixture solid to movement and lighting, but invisible to the division process.
In Q1 and HL, you can get a similar effect by making the light fixture a func_wall. This is because brush entities do not interupt the dividing up of you map during compile: they don't vis block.
Doing this has 3 drawbacks though -
1. They don't block vis, which can be a problem with some features/layouts.
2. Brush entities, including func_walls, do not stop light during the compile. So the wall mounted light fixture wont have a nifty shadow around it :(
3. There's a limit to how many brush and point entities you can have in a map, including how large they are. I discovered this to my cost when building Part III of Contract Revoked, what with all them teleporters. I believe CZG used a lot of func_walls for detail in, IIRC, Insomnia. 
Heretic + Worldcraft 
is there a fgd (is that the right name? me forgets) so i can do some heretic2 mapping in Worldcraft v1.6?? 
 
If level 4 is too slow (298 hours *is* slow ...) and you won't settle for fast vis (which is recommended for maps with very open nature), then I suggest looking for the standard methods; vis blockers, func_walls for detail brushes etc.

actually, it's the other way around... the level 1 estimation was 298 hours, i just completed a level 3 vis and it took 8 1/2 hours... that's mostly what i was trying to understand-- how a lower level vis could take longer than a higher level one.

thanks for the other explanations though. :) 
Necros: 
vis works by flowing through the level from each leaf -- sort of like the paint bucket tool in a paint prog, except that it does line of sight tests as it flows.

higher vis level settings will make the line of sight tests more stringent, which takes longer per test, but it also means that the test is more likely to fail. The sooner vis decides you can't see down a certain winding hallway, the sooner it can stop flowing down that hallway. This is how higher vis levels can sometimes be faster. 
Oic Now. 
thanks, metlslime. that cleared it up nicely. :) 
Oh Rats! 
so, i'm adding my monster into my map using gtkr... and i think: "man, this is too hard. i'll make these monsters only appear in hard!"

i open the entity dialog, and find there isn't a way to change the skill settings for entities! how do you do it in gtkr? 
Spawnflags 
256 - not in easy
512 - not in normal
1024 - not in hard
2048 - not in deathmatch
You can probably alter the entity def file or whatever they use nowadays to include this. 
Say I Didn't Want It In Hard Or Easy... 
i would add the two up, right?

so spawnflags would be 256 + 1024 = 1280?

how do you change skill settings for other games that are sp? (like Wolf and stuff) 
Title Goes Here... 
Yes, and I don't know. 
Hmm 
the correct enteties.def file should give you all the flags in editor 
could someone send me the .def file for a sp game please? (wolf3d or the like) 
Necros 
I think all the skill setting flags were removed from GTK ( I was wrong - they are editor thing and are not stored in entities.def)
But they are still present in Q3Radiant 202.
You could use that to place monsters. 
Mapping Tutorial 
Clip and skew, rather advanced, but should be easy to get it. Check out
http://www.planetquake.com/speedy/tut_pipe.htm 
However... 
they COULD be added to the entities.def. QER just happened to have them hard-coded in. 
Bleh... 
unfortunatly, i don't know how. :/

i'll probably try using q3rad 202 then, to add the skill flags...

just to check, but the q2 skill flags (which i assume are the ones were talking about) are the same bits as the q1 ones, right? 
Shubby 
Nevermind my bullshit bout leavin the board, change of mind. Anywho...

How do I accomplish setting up Shubby in WC? The teleporter-spikey-ball and all. I looked at id's end.bsp but it's missing some things (de-compiled it w/ BSP).

Thanks. 
This Guy... 
has now retired twice and come out of retirement twice, all in a couple weeks. Impressive. He's like fern and xenon combined and concentrated into a fine powder, and then sprinkled over a scoop of vanilla ice cream. 
Lmfao 
Niiiice. 
Phait 
I just worked out how to do it. I'll put the sample map in a zip along with a short tut in .txt format.
Dowload linkage imminent. 
Setting Up The Defeat Of Shub-Niggurath 
Thank You Very Much. 
BTW - care to interview me for Pherrous sometime? :P 
Thank You Very Much. 
BTW - care to interview me for Pherrous sometime? :P 
Phait: 
or you could interview yourself! 
Re: Mapping Tutorial (#133) 
That's a useful tutorial speedy. :) I'd managed to get as far as the 45 degree one from trial and error but never managed to satisfactorily(sp??) "bend" things any better than that. I'll have to make note of that technique.

Oh a couple (read: 3) typos you might want to fix:
(thats why the bush have to be made at gid 4 or greater). 
Regarding The Daikitana Episode 3 Textures 
If anyone has a download link, i would appreicate it. 
Ta Vrajgh 
No idea how damn bush sneaked in there ;) Fixin 
Leviathan 
I think nonentity had them uploaded on his PQ site. Let's see if he has an answer. If not, I have them, but I would have to upload them to my site, and QuakePit.com doesn't like zip files. 
Thanks RPG 
I checked out the site, but i guess that it is no more, since all content seemed to be removed.

If you have the texes, try emailing them to leviathanthegatekeeper@yahoo.com 
Um... 
Hotmail won't let me send a file greater than 1mb, and the E3 textures zipped are 2.3mb. I think I can still e-mail them to you from an old address; however, I don't have time right now, so please send me an e-mail as soon as you read this. That will remind me to do it later when I get the opportunity. 
Does 
quakepit like .rar?

or you mean it dont like any big files uploaded? 
Help For Texture 
how to create animated texture ? 
Animated Texture? 
Quake/GTK/func_group ? 
How do I get func_group to work in GTK for Quake? I read it somewhere, but I can not find it. I copied the func_group thingy from the Quake3 entities.def file installed with GTK, and pasted it into the Quake.def file, as I thought this was what I had read, but it did not seem to work. 
Q1 Does Not Have Func_group 
Quake II does, though.

(What does func_group do, anyway?) 
Func_group 
I remember that mapcon was able to move func_groups back to worldspawn, but I don't know what to change in the def file to make func_groups.

For q1 mapping in gtkradiant all it does is allow you to handle brushes in a group, which can be handy. 
Func_group 
Fat Controller
From what I read, although Quake does not have func_group, you can use func_group, in GTK Radiant as an in editor only tool, which as pushplay says allows you to handle brushes in groups

pushplay
"For q1 mapping in gtkradiant all it does is allow you to handle brushes in a group, which can be handy."

This is what I am after.

I either read about it hear, or at the old QMap, in a thread about Quake mapping and GTK Radiant. I have searched here but could not find it, and can no longer access the old QMap site. 
Question: 
since qbsp doesn`t know what a func_group is, it will create an actual entity which the game will claim has no spawn function. Does anybody`s map converter push func_group brushes into the worldspawn? 
Metlslime 
Yes, SleepwalkR's does resolve func_groups, you just have to put '-groups' as a command line parameter. Go download it and read the included readme.txt for further information.

http://rem.fov120.com/?show=projects&action=display_project&id=12 
 
or u can bother manually ungrouping all the stuff once map is done :/ 
Hmmm........I Feel Like A Lepper With 2 Left Feet......... 
anyway, since there is discussion on how to remove/revert the func_group back to worldspawn etc, I think it is reasonable to assume you also know how to get func_group to work in the first place, anyone care to enlighten me?

anyone?

anyone?

anyone?

:( 
Nevermind, I Have It...... 
:) 
You Do..? 
care to share? 
No !! 
:) 
Only Kidding, 
Now, this is how I got it to work, there is most likely a better way to do parts of it, especially selecting the group after it has been made, but at this time I do not know it.

First you got to copy the "funk_group" section from your Quake3 "entities.def" file which gets installed with GTK, just paste that into your quake.def file. (This, as I mentioned above, is what I thought I had read.) Then when you are in GTK, you just select the brushes you wish to group together, then either right click and select funk/func_group, or, hit the N key and bring up the entities dodad, select func_group from the list, double click it.

Then to select it, hit the L key to bring up the entities list, expand func_group, select it, click select, and it will be selected for you to work with. (If you have multiple func_groups, you could give each a name or something to identify them, I just put "name" in the key feild and then call it whatever the "value" feild, Then you can identify them individually in the entities list (L key) window). I do not know why I can not just select the group by selecting 1 brush, but I do not seem to be able to do it that way

When you want to change it back you just select one of the brushes in the group/or the group itself, right click, select "ungroup entity" and the brushes will be changed back to worldspawn. Or you could use the java version of sleepwalkers map converter and do it as mentioned above. I use the old non java mapcon which does not have the -groups switch.

It is a lot quicker than it sounds, and besides that, it is the only way that I know, so until I find a better way, it will do for me. 
Abyss 
Thanks, much appreciated. 
Tyrlite Optimisation 
is there any way to get faster compile with tyrlite ? takes way too long already (no -extra and only ~50% of the light are there)
I`m on slow pc ;/ 
Tyrlite 
Besides getting a faster PC and or having less lights or faces in your map I don't think there's a way... ;)

Well, if it takes that long you can always ask someone in #tf to compile it for you I guess, there are some people with quite fast machines, aren't there? 
Beta Testing... 
ok, i need some dudes to beta test nesp09...

you`ll need a custom engine on this one, any one that has the edict limit bumped will do (PanQuake, TomazQuake). The engines that I know that don`t have bumped edicts are: FitzQuake and MHglquake.

i suggest the use of Panquake -- practically identical to the original glquake (just make sure pan is disabled).

if you need any help getting these, just ask.

so if your interested, email me:
necros -at- planetquake -dot- com

nb: serious people only please... 
Visible Func_spawns 
Does anyone know why the upper part (there are two parts) of a Q1 custents func_spawn entity is visible before it is triggered ? It is then non-solid but otherwise works as expected when triggered (i.e. becomes fully visible and solid). 
I Think 
it`s because the model is getting set, but the falltofloor part hasn`t been executed at this time.

not sure though, i`d have to check, but i know what you mean.

incidentally, is there any particular reason why sometimes when a post gets eaten, you can go back and it`s still there? (like now) but other times, the post is no longer in the box? 
I Thunk 
incidentally, is there any particular reason why sometimes when a post gets eaten, you can go back and it`s still there? (like now) but other times, the post is no longer in the box?

We Fremen have a saying: metl created Func_Msgboard to test the faithful. One cannot go against the word of metl. 
Ha... 
Tell me of your home world asshole. 
Kell 
lol. 
Kell 
We Fremen have a saying: metl created Func_Msgboard to test the faithful. One cannot go against the word of metl.

Right Kell, but also have to remmeber the prophecy:
One will come, the voice from the coders world, bringing the holy bugfix, an addslashes() function, which will cleanse the bugginess and bring us out of darkness. 
Right Kell... 
...but YOU also have to REMEMBER the prophecy...

Ahhh, they're all over! Someone make the typos go away! Release me from this pain! 
Necros 
Thanks for trying to help, although I still cannot figure out what is going on. I tried to follow your droptofloor (which I assumed you meant) lead, but there are too many things happening in the qc code for me to get the actual sequence of events.

What I do not get is why this particular two-part model does not work when a one part model like the soldier works fine. It is probably some error in the original qc code that has never been looked into and I am too inexperienced to locate the cause.

If you (or anyone else) figure out the cause of (and hopefully the cure for) this error, I would appreciate the information. 
Wait A Minute... 
what are you talking about? :)

i`m not sure what you mean by `two part model`. what makes a soldier.mdl a `one-part` model? 
 
 
Also: 
a quick way around which requires more work on the mapper`s part is simply to place the spawning entity at the proper height above the ground. the spawn function simply uses the func_spawn`s origin as the spawned ent`s origin, therefore, if you set the proper height, the entity won`t be dropped to the floor at first, but it will appear to be, which is just as good. 
This Particular Entity 
consists of two parts; the upper body and the lower body, each in a separate mdl (servobod and servoleg) file. There is also a separate model for the dead entity (servodie) and finally a head model (h_servo) when gibbed (I am not sure if that is actually possible since the entity is a robot).

Before the func_spawn is triggered, the upper body is visible but non-solid and when triggered, the lower body also gets visible and then it is active and solid.

When dead, the two parts are separated and fall to the ground as expected and gets non-solid again.

I have tried moving the func_spawn entity up and down but it does not seem to help. Another func_spawn just next to this one spawns a soldier and that works exactly as expected. 
I Think... 
it seems to be more a problem in the servo thing`s code... probably the self.nextthink is set too long, maybe one second, so that could be why it`s taking a little while for the top part to get rearranged with the bottom part. i`d look there, if i were you, around the spawning function of the entity. (not the func_spawn) 
I Have Tried 
to follow your tip, but there is just too much code that I do not understand yet. I will leave it for now, thanks anyway.

Btw, did you get any help on *your* qc problem, the "Precache: overflow" issue ? I remember seing something similar on the old QMap. I might be able to track down some of that info if you want me to. 
Yeah... 
Sorry Bout Prev. Just Testing... 
well, at the moment, i'm told it has to do with going over the MAX_MODELS limit (of 256) or apparently higher on the engine i'm testing this out on...

but for the life of me, I can't really see what could have caused that error to crop up... there were already over 300~ models including func_, item_, monster_, and i only added a few things in between builds of the map...
unless the previous build was just skating on the edge, and the few things I added pushed it over...

so any help would be greatly appreciated, of course. :) 
MAX_MODELS == 256 
I already replied to necros via email before reading this here, but for anyone else who's interested...

You can only have a maximum of 256 _unique_ models in one map. The unique part is important because this allows you to have 20 grunts and they all share the same model, so this only counts as one towards the total.

Where you tend to use them up is with func_door, func_wall, trigger_once, etc. All of these entities (and any other "brush based" ones) will add one to the total count. 
Also... 
I forgot to mention also that you can't just bump this limit in the source code and re-compile because you'll break the network code. It sends the model number over the net as a byte (8-bits => 2^8 = 256). 
Hmmm... 
I know that in the dem files and in the code, bsp models are usually * and a number, like "*8". If you had 2 doors with the same model, would they get messed up by eachother? 
Hrm 
the func_spawn stuff...

i dont know if this is what you`re experiencing, but i had an issue crop up when i was doing qc for pbrsp1, basically there was a split second after soemthing spawned in which it was visible but hadn`t gone into being able to take damage/its think state, etc etc. i think i solved it by just putting a line making its nextthink alot quicker. pretty simple actually. i also added code such that spawned entities would go after a path_corner when spawned, in case anyone`s interested... 
Thanks, But The 
problem I have is *before* actual spawn time. The upper part of one two-part model is visible but non-solid. After spawn, everything is fine. I have tried looking into the nextthink/droptofloor/whatnot things but I cannot figure it out. 
Oh, You Mean, 
the upper part is already there, before the spawn is triggered? (just not solid)? 
Exactly 
... 
Hrm 
maybe post the qc somewhere? would make this alot easier imo 
The Custents Package 
is available at http://www.planetquake.com/fatty , look in the downloads section. The problematic model is controlled by the srvomech.qc code. 
R_speeds 
Can someone answer some q's about r_speeds

1. What is considered "acceptable" r_speeds ?
and wouldn't that be dependant on what system specs were being used? ie, wouldn't high r_speeds for someone on a lower spec machine, not be considered high for someone on a high spec machine, or have I missed the boat all together.

2.What does the info displayed onscreen from the r_speeds 1 command mean ?. Which (if not all) is the important one/ones to watch?

Also, in the Quake console commands file I have, and at "The Forge", it suggests that the following is what will be displayed when the r_speeds command is used

18.7 ms 422/263/127 poly 12 surf

but that is not what I get, I get the following

xx ms xxx wpoly xxx epoly 
Bagha 
xx ms is how many miliseconds it took to render that frame.
xxx wpoly is the number of polygons that is rendered from bmodels. (ie, the world, buttons, doors etc, and also ammo/health boxes) This is also the number that most people refer to when talking about r_speeds.
xxx epoly is the number of polygons that is rendered from .mdls. (ie, monsters, weapons, viewmodel, etc).

The xx ms xxx/xxx/xxx poly xx surf output is in software quake only.

As for what is acceptable r_speeds seems to be variable. In DM, some seem to get pissy if they are over 500. In SP, some think they should stay belov 700, others feel it's fine to go up to a 1000. I know I have sinned a lot on the r_speeds part myself, but what is done is done...
I generally think though that you can justify most r_speeds peaks if the visual gain is worth it. If you can make something excellent looking with 1100 wpoly, then let it be so. If you have made something that takes 1000 wpoly, but looks like crap, forget it. 
Titlelittletittitle 
I know I have sinned a lot on the r_speeds part myself

[sarcastic comment missing]

If you can make something excellent looking with 1100 wpoly, then let it be so. If you have made something that takes 1000 wpoly, but looks like crap, forget it.

right on. r_speeds average and r_speeds high are different: if your SP map averages around 500 - 600 and peaks only briefly at 1400, that's just fine AFAIAC 
Help Me Plzzzz! 
I have made a kinda big map and with a few more boxes Quake III Arena started hanging with "Waiting Snapshot...". I made my map in QuArK 6.3.0 and also put there some portals with "HINT" texture. When i go and check for holes it reports almost about every light. :(((( What should i do? 
Also About R_speeds: 
if they are too high in a place where there is little or no combat, that is more acceptable than if you have too high r_speeds in a place with lots of combat, where the potential choppiness can hurt your player's ability to fight. 
Thanks To All 
With the faster machines we have now, doesn't that lessen the need to worry about r_speeds. I have a map which r_speeds (wpoly) "were" (I have adjusted it now) continually up around and above 2000, now, durung play I could not tell any difference between that area, and say, another area where the r_speeds were at a level that would be considered "acceptable" 600/700.
So,...I am just trying to get a grip on why you should worry about it, if it doesn't actually seem to have any effect, except maybe for those with lower spec machines.

I seem to remember a thread about this, but I think it was on QMap :( , I would have liked to have read that today, with my interest in mapping, and not purely as a player, like it was then.
Forgive me if my questions/reasoning is stupid, there's probably a good reason for that :) 
Oh Shit... 
what about a map that averages around 1000 and peaks at 3000 in multiple areas? :o 
Necros: 
it'll probably run fine on recent machines. But very poorly on machines more than a couple years old. 
Hmmm 
I put mine back to how it was, even if the r_speeds are not considered "acceptable", I can't see how not dropping below 150FPS at 1600x1200 could be considered unacceptable. Maybe on lower machines, but thats how it goes. I'm prolly the only one who'll ever see it anyway, so who cares. 
So 
"Those arches you had gotten down to six brushes might end up being thirty after QBSP gets at them."

So what the heck do you do about it when that happens? 
Func_wall 
(but if you hit MAX_MODELS you`re going to have to live with the thirty.) 
What Should I Do? 
Do i have to delete some boxes or add some common textures to my map? 
Blah 
"Those arches you had gotten down to six brushes might end up being thirty after QBSP gets at them."

Actually there would be zero brushes after qbsp is done with them.... 
 
Watch out for those epolys ! 2k wpolys is not a problem even for 300mhz cpu, but add 20 grunts and it significantly slows down . 
Ya CyBeAr 
...it took me ages to get my head around that.

/me hugs Aardappel for his patience. 
CyBeAr 
I know that, but what do you do when qbsp is cutting things up in a retarded way (which I think is what the quote is saying)? 
Try... 
changing the brush order in the map file. For example, copy, delete, and paste one of the brushes. This is something i've thought about, but never tried. 
Changelevel... 
How to create a changelevel on Return to castle wolfenstein with gtk-radiant ? P.S. :( thanks for help meltslime ;-)) 
Brush Order In Map File 
I've tried changing that extensively and haven't seen any benefit at all for qbsp.

However, the face order in each brush is very important for how qbsp builds the map. That's why I added automatic face sorting to my compilers. 
Looking For Mappers For Ultimate Deathmatch(q1) 
To Fat Controller:
Ok, here you go. Follow the link on my website to the download: http://www.freewebs.com/shadowalker/

Note: This mod is always being upgraded. Adding items to the bsp should be easy with the latest upgrades to v1.6 Also, I'm trying to get in the custents mods.

To all:
For those who use quark. I have specialized runes that use bit flags. Within quark, you can use bits on spawnflags. How can I make my own set of bits flags for an attribute entry?

as 
Eeeh 
changing the brush order in the map file. For example, copy, delete, and paste one of the brushes. This is something i've thought about, but never tried.

- this has actually helped me out a few times before, especially when working with large visgroups and exporting to .map/compiling only visible groups in worldcraft. got past a few errors that were solved by repasting stuff in pbrsp1 iirc 
So This Guy Walks Into A Bar... 
Been dabbling a bit with the QC, and hey! I suck at it! What I'm trying to make first of all, is a chasecam of sorts. Now this thing that I've got already, it's called from PlayerPreThink() or whatever its name is, and the positioning bit of the code works like it should, (well, just about anyway) but the angle setting thingy like totally doesn't work.
The camera just points at seemingly random angles each frame and also locks the mouse down so you can't turn around no more for some reason.
Wondering if someone could help me a bit with what I'm doing wrong. Besides poining me to various tutorials.

The point here is to have the camera focus smack bang on the player. (the self entity in this case)

void() Chasecam_Update =
{
if (!self.camera) return;
local vector camera_origin, v1;
v1 = self.origin;
v1_z = v1_z + 192;
v1 = (v1 - self.camera.origin);
local float l1;
l1 = vlen(v1);
if(l1 >= 16){
//This whole if block is a bit dodgy I know
camera_origin = self.camera.origin + (v1 * 0.2);
if(CAM_LOCK_HEIGHT){
camera_origin_z = self.camera.origin_z;
}
setorigin (self.camera, camera_origin);
}
v1 = self.origin - self.camera.origin;
v1 = vectoangles(v1);

SetAngles(v1);
};


void(vector ang) SetAngles =
{
msg_entity = self;
WriteByte (MSG_ONE,SVC_SETANGLE);
WriteAngle (MSG_ONE,ang_x);
WriteAngle (MSG_ONE,ang_y);
WriteAngle (MSG_ONE,ang_z);
};



PLZ HLP KTHX! 
Oh Yeah 
CAM_LOCK_HEIGHT
is toggled between true or false on an impulse.
When it is true, the camera remains at a fixed height regardless of the players z-position.
That particular bit works fine btw... 
Beh 
<NotoriousRay> some of your vector stuff looked alittle borky

Yeah, that's another problem too...
I'll just admit right away that I have no goddamned clue as to what the two v1 = ... lines about halfway down are supposed to do, even though I drew some goddamned lines and wrote down a little bit of vector math even.
http://www.planetquake.com/greyvoid/dsc00247.jpg
(The poor man's scanner; a digital camera.) 
Scanners Are Much Cheaper Than Digicams ! 
blah 
Invisible Func_trains 
Does anyone know why a func_train (a small boat for the player) suddenly becomes invisible somewhere along the ride (always at the same spot) ? The object is still there, it's just invisible.

The func_train travels quite some distance (the end path_corner is way out of sight from the start), is there a problem with that ? 
Um... 
back a little while ago, i tried to do something like that... a long ride with a func_train.

basically, i think it's something to do with the vis code.

func_trains only get calc'd at their starting point, and, as you know, func_s aren't drawn if they aren't visible... what's happening is your train is moving away, so that it's start point (the point at which the vis calc'd it's visibility) is no longer able to be seen by the player... therefore, quake stops drawing it, thinking it's no longer visible.

to get around this, either don't vis the level (heh) or remove vis blockers so that no matter where you are on the path, you can always 'see' the func_train's startpoint. 
Or... 
there's just an inherent limit to how far away you can be from the starting point... :shrug:

oh, and what happened to the textbox font! it's all crayzeh! 
Necros: 
that doesn't sound right at all.

But, there might be a related problem. Vis for all bmodels depends on the visiblity of the leaf they are in. What happens when they are in more than one leaf? I think it goes by the leaf that the model origin is in. If it's a big model, that leaf might be outside the PVS, and other parts of the model might be right in front of you. 
The Invisible Func_train Effect 
is present also before vis is run. I also had a suspicion that vis could have something to do with it, but I can't see how when the problem is there before vis is run.

I've tried to reduce amount of objects (not many) in the area, block out areas beyond this point with a big brush, manipulating the path_corners to see if anything changes. So far, no luck.

The func_train is from the Custents package and therefore slightly modified. However, I can't find any documentation regarding this particular invisibility "feature" ... 
Well 
This occurs in czg01 as well. The "train" you ride into the exit also disappears when you have travelled some distance. And this is just along a straight line, so it would be odd indeed if it had anything to do with vis... 
I Vaguely Remember 
you mentioning that in the readme. I have now tested extensively and I can only conclude that it indeed seems to be the actual distance between start and end that is the culprit.

Changing # path_corners or removing all visible obstacles doesn't seem to help at all.

Thanks for the info. 
Really? 
interesting... i don't know why i would have thought it had something to do with vis then...

i stand corrected.

maybe it has to do with the engine itself? anyway tried this in modified engines? 
Only Fitz/WinQuake 
so far. It is the same behaviour using the traditional (non-Custents) func_train as well. 
CZG: 
If you still need help with the camera or any coding, e-mail me at:
static _ void @ hotmail . com (remove them spaces).

I'd be happy to help you with the camera code and anything else. You'll likely run into the sticky camera effect and the water bug and I may be able to help. 
Texture... 
can anyone point me to a wad of the oblivion textures 
Fern Has Them... 
A Little Problem On Which Path To Take... 
ok, well, i mentioned in the qexpo thread that i was doing a ss2 themed map... well, i've got two choices now that i'm torn between.

basically, should i make the map for regular 'stock' quake execs, or should i make it for the tenebrae engine.

Tenebrae:
Pro - It will look fantastic, be able to use more than just 256 palette, shadows.
Con - It will take twice as long to make, not as many people will be able to play it, possibility that i might give up if it takes to long and gets too complicated.

Stock Quake:
Pro - Easy for me to make, accessible to everyone, good possibility that it'll be finished.
Con - Won't look as good, ss2 texs don't look the greatest in quake's palette (i suppose i could try to figure out how to redo the palette, so this point could be moot)

can i have some opinions on this? which route should i take?


-----------
btw, thanks metl. you made those textures? 
Best Choice 
just use any engine that supports external pcx textures: tq, fq etc

also I`d recomend you use q1rad to have lighting similar to sys shock 
Yeah 
i was gonna suggest to use external textures but speedy got there first. That way the textures wont lose their quality from system shock, its still easy to build and will work fine in GL/software quake. And then if i get bored i can make the SS textures into tenebrae format too! :) 
Well, I'm Not Realling In Need Of Help 
Okay, I asked this in IRC but Maj told me not to ask questions. So, dutifully ignoring him, I thought I'd ask my question here.

When lighting a Q1 map, and it says "Lighting face 15197 of 15343", it's refering to surface planes that were formerly brushes, right? And not triangles (unless the surface was made of a triangle)? Furthermore, if it is planes from former brushes (and I suspect it is) then when QBSP merges two surfaces, that becomes a single face, yes?

No real reason for asking, other than curiosity. And I think I answered my own question, anyway. 
Q1rad... 
is it possible to completly light a map solely from surface lights? i'm trying right now, but everything is very dark...

what exactly does -gamma do? will it make stuff brighter? 
Faces Are Polygons 
they are the things you see when you're playing quake. They are what gets lit. 
Err 
Polygon meaning many sides, so yes faces are polygons. That's not what I meant though. When running r_speeds it's measured in polygons, which I thought was a count of the visible triangles which are visible with the showtris command.

But regardless, I believe I found the answer to my own question. In the quotation above (Lighting face 15197 of 15343) I took that from the lighting step of SM69, and the number of triangles in that map is certainly much above fifteen thousand. Fifteen thousand surfaces sounds much more reasonable. 
R_speeds... 
in stock quake engines measures polygons, not triangles. pretty much every part of the process, from light.exe to the renderer, only cares about polygons. Of course, your video card turns them into triangles before rasterizing them (in non-software engines.) 
Interesting 
I have learned. 
Doors In Worldcraft 
hi, i have a question.. is it possible to have a door which opens when triggered, and stays open until triggered a second time? If so.. how can that be implemented using the Worldcraft editor? (if anyone else here uses it!)

TIA :) 
Yes 
spawnflags 32 (i think this is "toggle") and wait -1. 
I Need Help !!! 
I try to make a changelevel on Return to castle wolfenstein . And i found a new thing the script : I need french help for scripting.
Where can i found it ? 
Here 
I wouldn't know. You might find more help if you asked in one of the french RTCW forums. I know there are at least two active ones. 
Metlslime 
thanks, wasn't quite sure what the toggle thing meant 
Thanks Pushplay 
I go now on RTCW !!! 
Quake 1 And WC1.6 Shareware Help Needed 
Ok, on my old comp, WC worked fine. On this new comp, it works fine other than it absolutely refuses to save my settings in the config file. Anyone have a clue as to what would be causing this?

Not the file isn't read-only. :P 
Quake 1 And WC1.6 Shareware Help Needed 
Ok, on my old comp, WC worked fine. On this new comp, it works fine other than it absolutely refuses to save my settings in the config file. Anyone have a clue as to what would be causing this?

Not the file isn't read-only. :P 
Quake 1 And WC1.6 Shareware Help Needed 
Ok, on my old comp, WC worked fine. On this new comp, it works fine other than it absolutely refuses to save my settings in the config file. Anyone have a clue as to what would be causing this?

Not the file isn't read-only. :P 
TRIPLE POST! 
Ban him.

But with all seriousness, try uninstalling/reinstalling? 
Righto... 
Q1/WC1.6/Tyrlite

In the DM version of Usher Recompiled I've got some weapon spawn pads that do not appear in the SP version...no problem, just make 'em func_walls and tag them "not in easy/normal/hard". However, they are lit pads and the light remains whether in DM or SP.

Do I need to change the .fgd so I can lose the lights in SP (is this even possible)? Is there another work around? 
Distrans 
Give all the lights you want removed a targetname and create a trigger to turn them off that is only present in SP. 
/me Kills The Lights And HUGs Tyrann 
thanx T. 
Just Checking... 
Q1/WC1.6/Tyrlite

When increasing the flare angle on spotlights do I add and "angle" key or an "angles" key? 
Angle. 
 
Ta Metlslime... 
 
Hmmm 
I've run into an odd problem with my coagula map. I'm trying to make it nice and interesting, but the nuts and bolts of it is that it's a box map that goes straight up. When I fly up to the top 3 meters or so the game acts as though I'm surrounded by an HOM, so I see a still of whatever it is I saw until I went above that height. I know there's supposed to be more map to go, because I built it and I can see stuff up there. I can live with that flaw, because you'd only get up there on a rocket jump, but it's weird.

Is this a limitation of Quake? A compile error? 
So... 
This problem is entirely unique to me and my map? 
Pushplay 
I haven't seen it before. Make sure you're not building outside the +/-4096 limits. Check if the problem is present before/after vis. Otherwise... I don't know. 
GRAAH! 
Anyone know where I can find some detailed info on lighting for RTCW? All I can find are those ditzy "Your First Room" tuts... 
4096 You Say? 
Yeah, that looks like exactly where the problem is. Great, I'll just select everything and move it down some. I've gone as high as I'm going to go, and ground floor is only -256. 
Quake Errors.. 
Hi again

i've almost finished my new map (quake 1) but when i tried compiling and playing it i got a bunch of error messages in the quake console. They were something like this:

TOTAL CHANNELS == MAX CHANNELS (x8)
HOST ERROR: TOO MANY STATIC ENTITIES

IF anyone knows what these mean & how to fix them then i'd be grateful if they could let me know. thanks. 
Static Entities 
are things like walltorches, flames, small flames, light globes...

unfortunatly, you've got too many of them! you'll need to remove some and convert them into regular lights. 
Ahhhh 
that explains it, thanks necros.

I had light prefabs with torches on them throughout the map, i'll try changing some of them to light textures. hope to get this map finished and sent to underworldfan within the next few days :) 
... 

Processing hull 0...
---- Brush_LoadEntity ----
----+----+
615 brushes
---- CSGFaces ----
----+----+
3805 brushfaces
4993 csgfaces
2978 mergedfaces
---- SolidBSP ----
----+----\
*** ERROR 42: Didn't split the polygon in SubdivideFace

Elapsed time : 0:01

Peak memory used : 2.0 MB


didn't split the polygon?

i'm using aguiRe's (for real this time :) ) modified treeqbsp. 
Necros, One Or More 
of your textures are scaled too small. Scale values below 0.2 can cause this error, but it appears to depend on the actual texture/face size as well. Maybe someone can clarify this.

I've made a utility that can enforce a minimum texture scale in a map file but it's probably not a good idea to use it on a map that has very precise texture scaling on small objects. It's very good for quick tests, though. 
One More Thing About Those Error Messages.. 
i've taken out alot of the torches now, and the map runs, but i still get the TOTAL CHANNELS == MAX CHANNELS line come up about 10-20 times before it loads. i think i remember seeing this on a large map i downloaded a while back, will it still run fine on all versions of quake? 
Sound Channels 
What that means, chainer, is that there are too many sound making things in your map. Torches, grunting monsters, sky and water, ambient sounds, etc, all count towards the total # of sounds allowed, which is fairly low (i think MAX_CHANNELS = 8).

So it will play fine, but when the error comes up, you won't hear some sounds. This can have strange consequences, like firing your gun and no sound being made. 
Speaking About Compiling Errors... 
I have a problem with the compiling of my map. It compiles without any errors, but when I launch Quake the map doesn't start. When I've removed all buttons from it the map started. Why does it happen? There were no problems with buttons before, but when the map became quite large (over 2200 brushes) the problems have suddenly appeared. 
Hm... 
pulsar, are there any error messages when you start quake? or is it just a black screen?

and is it only when you remove buttons, and nothing else? (doors maybe?)

check if you've got a funky string in one of your buttons. irrc, you can't use " in your strings... maybe others too... that could break the map... maybe... 
Out Of Interest 
How many brushes define make up an average map? 
IIRC... 
Around the 700 mark for DM and 2000+ for SP. There are exceptions of course e.g., coagula style levels. 
Err... 
Rightly or wrongly, I assume you're talking about Q1. 
Rightly 
I don't know how 'define' got into that previous post. 
Q1rad 
Having used this extensively necros it is possible to light a map solely with face lights. CRDM2 had 1 point light, and that was to generate the skylight, all the lighting in the map was done with surfacelights.

When using surface lights you gotta remember that the light is not shinning in all directions (aka a omni point light) but only in the direction the texture is facing. So having a room with loads of lights on the ceiling only will give you a bright floor but a very dark ceiling. The best way to avoid this is to have lights on the floor and ceiling, or bright lights on the walls, so that light is cast in all directions.

Remember also that surfacelights make the texture fullbright, so dont go making a 512x512 texture a surfacelight or is gonna stick out like a sore thumb.

Another thing, generally be generous with the amount of light coming off the textures, as they seem to be roughly half as bright as a omni point light. As a rough guide the little 32x32 light squares on the floors and ceilings in crdm2 had a brightness of 180.

Are you using the -bounce option? If un-specified at the command prompt light will bounce off surfaces and the map will be much brighter but at the expense of contrast, the map can look very washed out with light, its less apparent in a GL engine that supports colored lights (if your using colors) but load it in software and ouch :) For Quake I would use -bounce 0 as it produces the best overall effect ie. More contrast, but it does mean placing more light light emitting textures or making your tex lights brighter still...

Hope this helps. 
Necros 
There were no error messages. My map sometimes even crashes the system when I try to launch it.
At first I decided that it happens because my very slow machine can't compile the big map right. The I've sent the map to my friend with fast system for compiling. The result was the same: the map haven't started.
The thing is that everything works right til one moment when it stops working without any reasons.
I've just added about 50 brushes (and no entities). All these brushes were normal (I tryied to avoid solids with strange form). The only idea was to remove some entities (that worked fine before). I started from removing buttons and it worked.

I'm very confused with it. Anybody help... 
If The Map Is Very Big, 
maybe there are too many edicts? 
Daz, 
thanks for the info, duder. although, i started using q1rad primarily for the bouncing light effect...


-----------

next question: for those of you who take big performance hits when faced with flickering lights, is that a precompiled flickering light, or the light given off by rockets and explosions? 
PuLSaR 
One time I was making a Q2 map and had setup a func_areaportal with a func_door. I did something wrong (I don't remember what exactly it was) but whenever the door was opened the game would crash. Maybe you have a similar situation.

You said that you started to have the problem when the map became large, so maybe there was something you added recently that is causing this. 
Mappage Problem 
I've built most of the structure of my map, and now I'm placing monsters. I placed a few grunts on the platform you start on, but they're pitch black. I even placed a 200 level light over each one and they remain pitch black. What does it take to light these suckers up? 
Pushplay: 
quake lights models by drawing a line straight down from each entity until it hits a world polygon. It then uses the brightness value from the lightmap on that polygon to determine how bright the model should be. If they are standing on a func_plat or something, then they will not be lit by the lightmap on that plat, but on the first non-entity poly below it. Which might be pitch black. 
Necros 
Both. They're done the same way, unless you use gl_flashblend (which stops explosions/muzzleflashes from lighting the world). 
Metlslime 
Thanks.

That's an odd scheme. Yes, my monsters are standing on a func_door and below that is sky. Are there any workarounds? 
Hey, I figured it out. Since the game won't light the sky I just made a room you can't get into under the map and lit it apropriatly.

I do see why they went with that scheme, it must be wicked fast to calculate. 
Pushplay: 
the reason they went with that scheme is that the alternative is calculating light values for empty space. They finally did do this, in the Quake 3 engine. (the "light grid")

It doesn't seem like a big problem (except for the extra disk space / memory use.) But, keep in mind that there really isn't much of a need for it in the original quake levels -- 99% of the time, monsters are standing on lightmapped world polys. 
Really? 
damn... some people are gonna hate my map...

is it bad to have lights flicker at rates of 0.01? 
PuLSaR 
If you wish, you can send the zipped map+wad to me, I'll take a look and see what I can find out. 
AguirRe 
Well, there's even less than a half of my map ready right now (cuz problems have started) but I may send it to you.
What's your e-mail? 
Check Out 
my forum account info in the People section here http://www.celephais.net/board/people.php .

Just de-obfuscate first ... 
Aguire: 
your name in the "#1337 posted by aquiRe" also links directly to your user info page. 
I Know, But Since 
he didn't seem aware of the People feature, I thought I should point it out explicitly. All is well now, I have received the map and will take a look at it. 
#219, AguirRe (delayed Response) 
I found the reason for problems with func_trains (and any other bmodels) that move a long way.

Due to the way that the Quake network protocol works, entity co-ordinates wrap around at +/-4096. Now, because of the way qbsp works, every bmodel has it's origin at the centre of the map when in it's default position. Therefore, it can only more 4096 units in any direction before it's origin slips off the edge of the map and appears on the other side. At this point, the engine thinks that the model isn't visible, so it is culled.

I can make the problem go away by trading off one bit of precision on entity co-ordinates for a greater range of values, but this changes the network protocol, making netplay and demos incompatible with the original quake.

I suppose you could make qbsp translate the brushes to be centered around the origin before compiling each bmodel and then place the offset needed into it's origin key. Not sure how well that would work - you want to try it aguirRe? This would work around the problem in future maps, but existing maps are stuck with the problem. 
Hmm... 
i thought the origin for a brushmodel was at the lower south-west corner of the bounding box? For func_trains to follow pathnodes, it seems that this is the case. But i haven't gone code diving, so this is just based on conjecture (and mapping experience.) 
Tyrann 
Thanks for the info, I'll think about it. I've only encountered this problem twice in a huge number of maps, so maybe it's not worth the effort. It's good to know why objects could disappear though. 
Metl 
It behaves as though the origin is at the "mins" of the bmodel because the QC takes that into account. E.g.

setorigin(self, targ.origin - self.mins);

...and...

SUB_CalcMove(targ.origin - self.mins, self.speed, train_wait); 
Tyrann: 
ah, i see. 
Heh... First Time I've Ever Had A Problem With Light... 
H:\q1\maps>tyrlite -extra nesp09_q1
----- TyrLite v0.94 -----
extra sampling enabled
BSP is version 29
using minlight value 35 from worldspawn.
1487 entities read, 831 are lights.
WARNING: entity at (0, 0, 0) (trigger_once) has unmatched target
************ ERROR ************
GetFileSpace: overrun


cheked on quakelab, but there's no solution to that problem... help? 
You've Exceeded The 
max light data size (MAX_MAP_LIGHTING) which I believe is 1MB in TyrLite 0.94 if you don't use coloured lighting.

Either you'll need to change lighting in a way that you get below the limit or you'll need another light tool with higher limits.

Maybe Tyrann can fix it for you or suggest how to reduce the light data size. 
Necros 
Use large texture scale (like 2) on some huge distant surfaces to save lightmap space. Should help 
Is There A Way, 
to know how much i've gone over the limit?

this only happens in -extra, and i want to know if it's worthwile for me to go around fixing stuff or just release the map without -extra on light...

is there a way over the limit without changing the map? or is this one of those quake limits that can't be changed without altering the netcode... 
The Tool Aborts 
when it reaches the limit, so it can't tell you how much extra you'd require to finish.

As I said, if you don't want to change lighting, you'll need another light tool that has this (and other limits) raised. At http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k you'll find such a tool.

I also have an enhanced version of TyrLite 0.94 that among other things has this limit quadrupled (to 4MB). If you ask Tyrann, he can do the same fix to the official version.

AFAIK, the engines or netcode has no problems with having this limit raised. 
MAX_MAP_LIGHTING 
Yep, that's a bug in TyrLite. I meant it to allocate 4MB, but a logic error in LightWorld() screwed things up. I have a few minor changes queued up now, so v0.95 should be along soon. 
Necros 
yeah try scaling up textures on large rocky walls etc like speed said, for one the lightmaps are smaller on them and 2, I actually think the walls look better with this done to them, makes the walls look huge and massive a bulky and oooooh u know craka!

I ate a fish. 
Would There Be 
a general interest of having access to the old QMap "Mapping Help" thread dating from Jun 2000 to Oct 2002 ?

I have it archived in html format with graphics and could upload it to someone who'd like to host it (metlslime ?).

It's quite big and not in a nice format for the bandwidth limited, but maybe that could be fixed too ? 
AguiRe 
Hmm, how many megs is it zipped? 
About 700K Zipped 
for a version that only has one html file for all three years (rather difficult for the browser to handle - sucks memory to no end). This variant is not very useful online but OK for a powerful computer offline.

I've also made a separate 3-part version that has one html file for each year which is easier to manage in the browser offline. It will still be difficult to use online, though.

The entire package of both versions is about 1.4 MB. 
AguiRe 
Would be cool if you could send me those per mail. I think about putting all the posts into a database and quick code some stuff to search through all the data... 
Qmap, Mappng Help 
You couldn't upload it somewhere, so it could be downloaded by those (like me)who may want to read through and get some of the usefull info that is sure to be in there could you? please, huh..................................... 
 
If it's under a meg, there's no problem with me uploading it to Signs Of Koth and making a linky thingy on one of my pages. It could also be linked from where ever else. 
Uhm... 
... if I'd put that database up I'll make it available on gomjabbar.de for everyone. Just so you know ;). 
Gom Jabbar 
I've sent the whole package to you by email. If you change it into a more managable/searchable format, publish the link here. 
Yay! 
Got it aguiRe, will see if I come around working on it tonight... 
Just A Question 
How to make ladder on q2 ??? 
Ladder 
Create the ladder brushes as you want but edit their surface attributes and give them the 'ladder' attribute..

that's about all I think is to do, it's been awihle. 
QMap Mapping Help 
archived thread is now available for download at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k .

Zip contains both full and split versions. Just unzip and you can use it immediately. 
Thank You 
Very much kind sir !! 
QMap Mapping Help 
Will prolly set up a searchable database of the Mapping Help Thread at the weekend. 
Refers To 301: 
Tyrann, that new version wouldn't happen to be done before qexpo, would it? :P 
Necros 
I'll mail you my current version, since there's a little more I want to do before the next release. 
Oh Great! 
thanks a lot! i really wanted to have the made done for sp day on qexpo. :) 
Archived Mapping Help Thread 
I have all posts of the archived Mapping Help thread in a database now (God bless regular expressions).
Since I'm already working on some new stuff for my page, I'm going to add a frontend to search through all those posts or just browse them. If everything works as planned it will be online someday of the next week. 
Is There A Way 
to replace a single texture in an already compiled bsp file?

i really don't feel like recompiling... 
I'd Love A Tool To Do That 
I found some texture misalignments in my coagula map, but there's no way I'm re-compiling that! 
Doesn't QuArK... 
allow you to do that? 
To Replace A Single Texture In An Already Compiled Bsp 
You can do that with texmex (then import to bsp), but you absolutely have to keep the size of the original. Also there is a tool that unpaks .bsp - might be usefull, not sure where to get it. Ask in #qc or inside3d forums.

If you mean changing the coordinates of a texture on a face - never heard it was possible with in quake. 
GTK Radiant + Q1. Textures. 
Greetings, great mappers ;) i just wanna ask how to compile a q1-map made in gtkr. i used a tutorial from an 'industri' site (http://ray.onemoremonkey.com/industri/howto.php): everything works perfect, but when i start map quake crashes with a following message: 'Host_error: texture is not 16 aligned'.
Here is console log:
]/map q1room
*Loaded clogic.dat occupy 12k.
*Loaded progs.dat occupy 400k.
*Loading wad data 'textures/metal.wad'
W_LoadTextureWadFile: Wad file textures/metal.wad doesn't have WAD3 ID
*Loading wad data 'textures/counterstrike.wad'
W_LoadTextureWadFile: Wad file textures/counterstrike.wad doesn't have WAD3 ID
Host_error: texture is not 16 aligned
]_

'metal.wad' is a standart quake WAD, i've downloaded it using a link from tutorial. 'counterstrike.wad' works fine in qoole. so i don't know what's my mistake. could you help me?
that's all ;) tanks a lot. 
Thanks, Speedy 
Um... Wait... What? 
this is what i do...

in texmex, i open up the compiled bsp, delete the old texture, replace with the new texture (same size), but the 'save to bsp' option in the file->save copy menu is greyed out.

how do you do it? 
Fst: 
You're trying to load a quake wadfile (WAD2.) I think you're using a plug-in that can only read halflife wadfiles (WAD3.) 
The Same 
2metlslime: plugin? what plugin? i've made a small map in gtkr, then i've converted it into a q1-map file and compiled it using standart tools. i tried to use wad3 but in this case map loads with no textures. could you tell me please the right way to organize q1textures for gtkr (how did you do it?). thanks anyway.
2speedy: ?????, ??????? ;) ?? ?? ? ??? ???? ?? ?????????, ???-?????? ;)) 
Oops... 
2speedy: muzhik, vyruchay. ty zhe u nas spetz po texturam, kak-nikak? ;)) 
Fst: 
I've never used Gtkr for quake1, but i don't think Gtkr can read WAD2 files -- i think you'll have to convert your textures to jpeg or tga. 
Hmm 
necros: u have to click on the texture (opens detail mode) then paste the one you want (ctr-v)

fst: haha. I dont know whats wrong with your compiling.
I`v never tried to compile from gtk myself

Get sleepwalker`s map converter and convert to q1 map, then open in your normal q1 editor, cleanup any errors and them compile (thats if you can map without compiling and checking everything in game every 5 minutes).
Also check necros (pq/necros) guide on quake1+gtk mapping, might help.

If you want it explained in russain - email 
Quake1/GTK 
First you got to have your textures extracted to a folder in your Quake/id1/textures/xxx folder, where xxx=the name of your .wad file. Use texmex. This is so GTK can read the textures and show them in the editor. You must also have the texture .wad file in the same directory as your compile tools. Also, the texture .wad file you are using must be added to the worldspawn of the map, otherwise they will not show in game. Also, you cannot compile the map with the GTK tools (not for use in Quake1 anyway) you must use Quake compile tools, just incase you didn't know.


qbsp, vis compile tools can be found here
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/

and tyrlite here
http://www.planetquake.com/tyrann/ 
Let Me Explain Myself.... 
I have textures extracted in the correct folder in .jpg format.
I have map converter and regular compile tools.
I don't use (omg!) gtkr compile tools for q1.
I've read necros' guide and industri guide to (see post #22,#23).
I've filled the 'wad' key in worldspawn properties.
So i think there's something wrong with .wad files (2Abyss: it is in the same folder as compile tools).
Could you tell me what is the right format for quake .wad files and i'll convert my wads to this format (texmex? wally?).
2Speedy: thanks. your way isn't ideal but it does work.
One more question: what is the correct syntax for 'wad' key of worldspawn: 'textures1.wad;textures2.wad' or 'd:\textures1.wad;d:\textures2.wad' ?
Thank you. 
Texes 
If the .wad's reside in the same dir as your .map file 'texes.wad; texes2.wad' will be ok, otherwise you have to use the full path afaik.

To create a .wad file you can either use TexMex or Wally, iirc there are options in the save dialog to set the game you want to use this wad with. 
Sky Lighting? 
how do you guys do it? sure there is tyrlite's skylight feature, but that only lights from one direction for the entire map. if you need sky light coming in from more than one direction, you're screwed.

I've seen some people place a bunch of small lights along the sky-ceiling of their map, which seems like a good idea. My question is, what values are appropiate? and how many lights? 
Sky Lighting 
The intensity and quantity of lights will of course vary between rooms and their sizes. Normally if I'm not using Tyrlite's skylight, then I use just one light for the sun, with a light value of around 200, and a wait value that's usually around .2, but sometimes more or less. Smaller, low-intensity lights (and anti-lights) get placed around to add ambience and enhance the shadows cast by the "sun" light. These smaller lights usually have a light value of around 75 (or -75 if it's an anti-light) and varying wait values, but generally .25 to .4.

Now here's the part where someone comes along and tells me how oddly I go about lighting outdoor rooms. 
The Secret To Lighting: 
play with it until it looks good. (This sometimes takes a while.) 
 
(This sometimes takes a while.)
And the award for 'Understatement Of The Week' goes too...

:D 
 
"delay" "3" lights have no falloff (just like sunlight) - might try that.

But the real thing is to use radiocity sunlight 
You Might Want 
to check out the enhanced sunlight feature of my Light at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k .

It makes an attempt to make outdoor sunlight more realistic and specifically doesn't require an excessive minlight value to balance the hard shadows of the normal sunlight. 
Hm... 
if all you want is different sunlight mangles in different rooms, you could use q1rad, put the bounce to 0 (effectivily disabling the radiosity stuff) and then use the env_sky or what ever the ent is to do different lighting in each outdoor area.

erm... did that make sense? 
Also, What's 
Mirrored plane

got that when compiling a map with the q3map tool... 
Hi 
This is not a mapping question but anyway, does anyone know how to stop the player from tilting when strafing? It feels like the dude is standing on a skateboard. Thanks! 
Maiden: 
try messing with the various cl_* variables. One of them probably controls it. 
Try These Values 
cl_backspeed 400
cl_bob 0
cl_forwardspeed 400
cl_pitchspeed 250
cl_rollangle 0
cl_sidespeed 350
cl_upspeed 200
cl_yawspeed 250


I think it's the cl_rollangle 0 that does what you want. Experiment for best results. 
 
sv_friction 
I Especially Recommend... 
edgefriction -4 
Ahaha 
That was fun. 
Err 
I tried edgefriction -4 but it didn't seem to do anything. :/ What is it supposed to do? 
RPG: 
walk up to an edge. 
Heheh 
I see now. Coagula was not a good map to try that on. 
Lol 
 
Bsp Trouble Again... 
----+----+
5499 brushfaces
7363 csgfaces
4291 mergedfaces
---- SolidBSP ----
----+----\
*** ERROR 42: Didn't split the polygon in SubdivideFace


ok, get this error in bsp, and i'm wondering how on earth you pinpoint this sucker down. 
See Also Post #265 Above 
You'll have to locate faces that have low texture scaling values, < 0.2 is usually problematic.

If you can't find the offending value(s), you can use my ConvMap utility at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k to set a minimum texture scaling value. Beware that this might make some textures look misaligned. But that might still be easier to fix than manually finding the culprit face(s).

The best thing is if your editor can help you trace bad scaling values, e.g. I think QuArK can do that. 
Oh... Hehe 
looks like i already ran into that problem... :) thanks again, aguiRe!

i'll try the convmap approach. 
Multiple Texture Wads W/ Radiant & Quake? 
Is there a way to swing this, or do I just have to shuffle all my texes into one .wad file? I tried adding a "wad" key to a brush with two filenames, and adding one key to two different brushes, but neither worked. 
You Can Do It... 
but fisrt, a wad is not a property of a brush, it's a property of the worldspawn.

the main problem is that radiant has a small area to type the value of a key-value pair, so really long strings (like two wad paths concatenated) might be too long to type in.

Solution: do it in wordpad. Radiant handles this approach fine; i guess it's just the text entry field that is too short. 
Wads 
Or you could put the wads near where you compile your maps, and use relative pathnames. 
Re "Multiple Texture Wads W/ Radiant & Quake?" 
Yeah you just add the .wad to the worldspawn, and separate different wads by ;
eg id.wad;rogue.wad


"the main problem is that radiant has a small area to type the value of a key-value pair, so really long strings (like two wad paths concatenated) might be too long to type in."

Nah, not true, I've had 5 wads typed in there, miles of room left. But you may have that problem if you leave the window the default size I guess, I have mine almost full screen 
Ahh =) 
So all I needed was a semi-colon? R4wk -- thanks guys =) 
Haha 
Nah, not true, I've had 5 wads typed in there, miles of room left. But you may have that problem if you leave the window the default size I guess, I have mine almost full screen

haha. Neato. I didn't realize that. :)

If you have your wads in C:\jimmy\program files\games\quake\id1\maps\wads\ and link to the full pathname, then I could see how you would still be limited to just a few, but at least you could fit in the whole pathname this way. ;) 
Textures... 
Does anyone know of textures for any game which fit the following criteria?

-Dark
-Mostly grey, black, white, not much color, but NOT brown or grimy (no steampunk or the like)
-must by tech, scifi oriented
-pipes and tubing a plus. ;) 
... 
sort of like the stuff you see in startrek firstcontact with the borg. 
Necros 
elite force, err elite force 2 :D 
And 
avp, avp2 
Hm... 
i don't know how to get the textures out of avp2, tbh...

and i do have the demo of elite force. heh, never occured to me. :P 
Necros 
never watcher startrek
bu check http://www.planetquake.com/speedy/textures.htm
maybe you could use them 
Necros 
sounds like the Imperial aesthetic from Star Wars:
http://image.reserve.co.uk/www/public/images/ss00/big/jl/jediknight2-b.gif 
And... 
http://www.ravengames.com/jediknight2/screenshots3.php

The only color tends to be on the consoles and that's either red panels or blue text. 
... 
hm... well, i might grab a couple of the textures from your set speedy, but i don't think i'll use the whole thing... it's a little too bright without enough pipes and techy stuff.

i think i'll stay away from starwars textures... they look like they only really work in the sw universe, and i don't want my map to become a starwars map... :)

what's the texture set that Killazontherun used for this unfinished map?
http://pipeline.fov120.com/shots/85_l3.jpg 
Erm... 
What About? 
majestic: http://shaderlab.com/slrl/?p=textures/sci-fi/majestic&o=1

some of evil lair's textures might match what you were looking for too, not that I really remember your description of what it was yuo wanted.... 
distrans: yep! i'm mapping a bit more dark then the guys who did the borg maps though...

cybear: thanks a lot! those textures look like they'll work well. 
Necros... 
...you might want to check out these as well http://www.q-fraggel.de/textures/textures.html

Hopefully not too much colour or grime, cheers 
Thanks, Distrans, 
but those won't go with the ones i've already chosen. 
Asdf 
those are ewww distrans 
Err 
So why does a tyrlite -extra compile take twice as long after a -level 4 VIS than after a -fast VIS? 
Because God Hates You 
kthxdie 
RPG 
The only reason I can think of is that you've exceeded TyrLite's vis capacity of 1.5 MB and therefore its behaviour becomes unpredictable.

This is most likely to happen after a fast vis since the vis data is less compressed then.

How big is the vis data after fast/full ? Is the behaviour repeatable ?

AFAIK vis and light are two completely separate things that can be done in any order without affecting each other. 
AguiRe 
I just recompiled it (in the name of SCIENCE!) and here are the results:

VIS -fast:
visdatasize: 182827 compressed from 258120
Elapsed time: 0:27

TyrLite -extra:
141.0 seconds elapsed

VIS -level 4:
visdatasize: 72078 compressed from 258120
Elapsed time : 22:41

TyrLite -extra:
244.0 seconds elapsed

At 1790 brushes, the map is not even all that large, so I wouldn't think that I'm exceeding TyrLite's VIS capacity. 
RPG 
Mail me the (unvised) .bsp and .prt files and I'll find out. 
*Shrug* 
One man's shit is another man's pate. 
RPG 
Those vis sizes shouldn't be any problem at all. Just curious, did you rebuild from scratch (i.e. using qbsp) between those two tests ?

Otherwise the initial vis/light data lumps in the bsp are different in the two cases and may (although I can't see why) cause alternate behaviour.

Let's see what Tyrann finds out. 
AguiRe, Tyrann 
aguiRe: Yes, I did a complete recompile between the two tests.

Tyrann: It's on its way. 
I Made A Brief Test 
of two maps, using both my Light and TyrLite and none of them exposed this behaviour. I got the same timing after fast/full vis.

I'm interested what could be causing this in your specific map (or even possibly in your computer environment). 
RPG 
Ok, I've run the two compiles and there's no difference here. My first suspicion is that this is something simple like a screensaver that comes on during the longer compile and saps CPU cycles.

Otherwise, it's more complex and other factors are involved. What vis program are you using? What's your OS version? 
VIS And OS Versions 
Vis 2.15 by Bengt Jardrup

Win98 SE 4.10.2222 A

Note that I have screensavers disabled, and there were no programs open during one compile that were not open during the other (I believe it was just Windows Explorer, MS-DOS Prompt, AIM, mIRC and WinAmp, and WinAmp was not playing anything during either compile). Also note that I noticed this happening at least twice, so it's not just a specific incidence.

When I get a few minutes, I'll do a full and fast compile using the BSP and prt I sent you, since before I did a complete recompile. 
Just A Farfetched Idea 
If you open the Properties for your MSDOS Prompt in Win98 (the shortcut you're actually using), go to the last tab and check the settings for Background and Idle Sensitivity, what's their status ? 
Re: Just A Farfetched Idea 
Always suspend is unchecked, and Idle sensitivity is set in the middle. 
That Seems OK 
If you wish, you could send me the zipped map+wad (I'll rebuild it myself) so I can see if I can repeat the symptoms here (I've got both Win95 and XP). I think Tyrann's running W2K.

What TyrLite version are you using ? 
Err, Whatever 
I'm using TyrLite v0.92

...you could send me the zipped map+wad (I'll rebuild it myself) so I can see if I can repeat the symptoms here (I've got both Win95 and XP).

TBH, I'm not that concerned about it, but I understand that you might just be curious as to how this is happening. So, don't obligate yourself to trying to figure this out, but if you want me to, I'll send the .map and wads (I don't mind). 
Maybe We Could Wait 
until it becomes a real problem ...

If you like to update, there are new versions both of Tyrann's tools and mine. 
Okay 
I've upgraded all the compilers (TreeQBSP, VIS, and TyrLite) so I suppose we'll see if the inconsistency continues. 
RPG 
Ok, I tried on Win98 as well, and using aguirRe's vis tools. I still can't reproduce it. Wierd. 
�_� 
Well here's an interesting turn of events: I took the .bsp I sent Tyrann and compiled a fast vis and extra light. Afterwards, I replaced it with the unvised and unlit .bsp again, and did a full vis and extra light. Lighting after the fast vis took 224 seconds. Lighting after the full vis took 121 seconds, even though I had the same programs open.

I don't see what I could be doing that would cause light to take twice as long.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter, and apparently it has nothing to do with the compilers since it goes both ways. 
You Could Try 
the "-nocount" option in TyrLite to see if it's console window related. In Win9x, the interaction between 32-bit console apps and the actual console window is a complex beast. 
Right 
Will do. 
Bitch 
sometimes my trigger-door-whatever setups stop to work, even tho I dont change them.

Have to delete and reconstruct to make them work again. ftw ?

bsp, treeqbsp by aguirRe, normal bsp compile (not onlyents) 
Speedy, 
what map editor are you using? it could be the program is fucking up the target/targetnames or something like that. 
 
readup - bsp
all the links look fine in the editor (you know it draws the lines) and I even hand-checked the map in the notepad - all targets matched. 
The Same Old Question 
im pretty sure everyone has asked this, so here it goes. does anyone know of some ass-kicking q1 textures?

see, today i wanted to start a new level but well, had no ideas with the original quake textures... so yeah.

thats it. 
Textures 
Astonishing Panoramas Of The Endtimes 
YAY! thanks dude. hehe. 
Re: You Could Try 
the "-nocount" option in TyrLite to see if it's console window related. In Win9x, the interaction between 32-bit console apps and the actual console window is a complex beast.

aguiRe: I've been using the -nocount option lately, and it seems like the light times are more consistent now. The -extra light after a fast vis has been approximately the same since I started that, and during the full compile I just did TyrLite took about the same amount of time as during the -fast vis compile.

Again, since it appears to be more unpredictable than I initially thought, I have no idea if this actually means anything. 
Not The Point 
...if it takes two minutes or four. What matters is; did it or did it not crash and delete your porn collection? 
W_LoadWadFile: Couldn't Load Gfx.wad 
HeWhoWishesNotToBeNamed (that's a lie, actually) gets the error message W_LoadWadFile: couldn't load gfx.wad from FitzQuake after using Tigger-oN's compile.bat to compile the map, move it into the appropriate dir, and load it. I don't really have any more details, but apparently if he just runs FitzQuake after the .bat is through running, and loads the map then, everything is fine. 
^^ I'm With Him 
yeah what he said... it really torques my ass crack 
RPG: 
This is a problem with quake in general, when running from a batch file. The problem is that the working directory is wrong. To illustrate, this doesn't work:

cd \
c:\games\quake\fitzquake


but this does:

cd games\quake
fitzquake
 
Couldn't You Do... 
...

cd \
c:\games\quake\fitzquake.exe

Surely that would work? 
Responses 
Thanks, metlslime. With that information Dietz should be able to get everything working 100% now.

bascule: Try it. I just did. I get the same error message that Dietz gets. 
Bascule: 
that's the thing i said didn't work. 
Wow I've Been Needing Lots Of Help Lately 
Okay, so in Q1 I want this key door to play doors/baseuse.wav when the player has the key and touches it. When "sounds" is set to "2" on the door, baseuse.wav does not play; however, when it's set to "5" baseuse.wav does play. Of course, it also complains about the sound files not being precached because there is no corresponding set of .wavs for that sounds number.

If I play some trickery on Quake and set "noise1" to "doors/baseuse.wav" and "noise2" to "misc/null.wav" then the sound plays, but only after the door has stopped moving. This feels odd and is not the desired effect.

Any ideas on how to get this working how I want? 
There's A Bug... 
in the id progs.dat where it tries to play both the door open sound AND the door unlock sound on the same channel, thereby cancelling one out.

If you don't want do include new progs.dat, try this hack: make another func_door hidden in the wall or something, and have it open at the same time. the locked door will play the unlock sound, and the hidden door will play the open sound. 
Solution! 
Thanks to metlslime and czg for helping me out with this. If any of you want the solution, here is the info:

"classname" "func_door"
"sounds" "5"
"noise2" "misc/null.wav"
"noise1" "misc/null.wav"
"angle" "270"
"target" "goldkeydoor"
"wait" "-1"
"spawnflags" "8"

"classname" "info_notnull"
"use" "train_wait"
"sounds" "1"
"noise" "doors/baseuse.wav"
"wait" "-1"
"targetname" "goldkeydoor"


This creates a func_door that requires the goldkey, and plays no sounds when opened. It targets the info_notnull which plays the baseuse.wav. 
Sadomasochistic Behaviour 
<czg> RPG, you could just have set the doors "sounds" to 0, then you don't have to set the noise fields yourself

Yes. So, if "sounds" "0" is used in the func_door, then you don't need to set the "noise1" or "noise2".

Just an FYI if anyone here is trying to use this. 
M33p 
cool, thanks. That is very helpful! No im not being sarcastic :) 
Eh? 
Do func_trains in Q1 not like "wait" values that are decimals? It doesn't wait at a path_corner when I set "wait" to ".25". 
Begs The Question... 
Why would you want it to wait .25 instead of 1? :) 
... 
Because I have three func_trains. They all move together at 64 units/second to form a single structure. I want one of the trains to pause while the other two trains move 16 units in opposite directions, and then I want them to all start moving again in sync.

d/r = t. 16/64 = .25 seconds to pause.

And since the trains move about 384 units before coming to this spot, I don't want all of them to move at 16 units/second because then the player would have time to shit, shower, shave, and do whatever else they wanted before the train got to the final destination. 
ROFLMAO 
"because then the player would have time to shit, shower, shave, and do whatever else they wanted before the train got to the final destination." 
Weirdness 
I set "wait" "1.5" and it actually waited one and a half seconds at the path_corner. I still want to know why "wait" ".25" (or "0.25" for that matter) doesn't work on func_trains. 
R.P.G. 
Try using 0.2. Just for a laff. 
Hrm 
does the q1 entity/whatever file gtkrad uses have 'wait' as an integer value? if so, maybe its getting sliced to 0 somehow? probably not, but worth checking out i guess. (more likely a quake thing though) 
�_� 
Okay...

Partly influenced by Kell, partly influenced by SPoG, and partly on a lark, I set "wait" ".5" and it waits the perfect amount of time and everything is in sync. This makes no sense to me, because the main bit is only supposed to wait while the other two bits move 16 units at 64 units/second. Unless all trains automatically pause 0.25 seconds at each path_corner, this is beyond my comprehension.

But hey, it works. I'm happy. Sort of. Now I don't have an excuse for czg as to why I haven't released the map. 
RPG 
release the map!

make sure its hard though :D 
Pausing 
If a wait is set for the corner, the train will wait for exactly� that time. If the wait is not set, or the wait is zero (they're the same thing), it'll wait for 0.1 seconds.

�: I think. check sv_phys.c in the engine. 
Thanks, Nb 
 
Texture Alignment 
Can anybody who's using TreeQBSP or WQBSP please clarify when you use the options "-oldaxis" or "-alternateaxis" for correct texture alignment of 45 degree brushes?

It's my impression that people who are using WorldCraft must use one of these options all the time although compiler documentation tells the opposite. What gives? 
AquiRe 
download valve hammer and use dubsp, it makes texturing and aligning SO MUCH EASIER! :) 
AguiRe 
I use QERadiant and always use -oldaxis or -alternatexis. I remember from the time that I was helping Killjoy finish KJSP1 that if he used -alternateaxis on WQBSP that the texture alignment was off. He was using WC1.6. 
It's -alternateaxis 
All Quake textures are aligned to the nearest of the xy, yz, or xz planes. However, WC gets confused with 45� angles and sometimes aligns the tex along the wrong plane.

I'm not sure I've explained that correctly, but all you need is -alternateaxis to make stuff line up. 
 
WC gets confused with 45� angles

Oh gods, I remember that :/ IIRC though, it only happens on one plane - so if you have a pyramid whos sides slope at 45 degrees, two flanks will look right, two won't. Or something. 
In That Case... 
Cant you just simply rotate it 90 degrees? 
Thanks For The 
input. If I understand correctly, normally (except in the case RPG mentioned) these options should be used to get [45 degree] textures to align properly.

Then, why are these options there? In what case is the (new?) default texture axis handling better? Is there an editor where the default axis handling makes sense?

The "old" (or "alternate") axis handling is the same as in TxQBSP (which only has one variant) and also the same as in the original qbsp from iD.

Why are there repeated claims that this "old" axis handling is invalid for WorldCraft? It really doesn't make sense.

I've tested on several WorldCraft maps and they all get correct texture alignment only if I use the options above (with Tree/WQBSP). Using TxQBSP it's always right.

Another funny thing is when using YQBSP (Yahn Bernier's), there is yet another option "-alt45" which works completely opposite of the "-alternateaxis" option in WQBSP. I.e. running without this option seems to work great for WorldCraft maps. Confusing to say the least ...

It appears to me that I should consider removing the "-oldaxis" option from TreeQBSP and make it default instead. Would that be wise? 
Triggering Lots Of Monsters 
If I trigger 12-15 monsters and have them "wake up" at the same time, will this cause choking or any other sort of problems for the engine? 
Wake-up Call... 
afaik, from my own sp doodlings, if the number of monsters and the detail/r_speeds of the area in which they are encountered do not cause Quake to grind, scrape or choke then having them simultaneously alerted won't either. 
Hello 
Hi everyone, I'm back from a trip abroad & getting back into mapping. Apologies to those who have not received replies to emails. In answer to the general thrust of most of them(ie where the fuck are my maps?) I am pleased to say that the castle map I showed screenies of over a year ago is very nearly finished :)

However, I am getting compiling problems, in particular tyrlite is refusing to run with the message: "Texture Axis Perpendicular to Face".

To fix this I need to select all brush faces containing a certain texture & reset the coordinates (the error seems to be caused by screwy stretch numbers). My problem at present is that when using Shift-A with the texture selected rather than select all the [i]faces[/i] with that texture GTKRadiant selects all the [i]brushes[/i] where one or more faces have the texture therefore selecting many faces with textures other than the one I am interested in. This doesn't sound too serious but I have over 6000 brushes and a good percentage of them seem to have this particular texture on one or more faces. Does anyone know a way of just selecting all the faces (rather than brushes) in this way? Can Worldcraft or a different version of GTK do this (I'm using 1.2.11)? Thanks. 
Glassman 
W00t! Nice to hear from you, dude. I'm VERY glad you haven't dropped out completely, and I'm really looking forward to your map!

Because I don't know the exact details, I'm not sure that this will help. If you're using the same stretch numbers for all the surfaces, you could use find/replace in a text editor. Obviously, if you used a unique stretch value for each surface, this will be too much effort. But if you only used 5-10 numbers, then it will only take a few seconds to find/replace all the values.

Hopefully that made sense. 
Find/replace 
The problem face may look something like this:

...gnosis_full/rtnick2d_wet 0 0 0 1001.99999 1.000000 0 0 0

Whereas almost all the others will have a stretch of 1.000000 but with many different coordinates/angles eg.

...gnosis_full/rtnick2d_wet 0 -64 27 1.00000 1.000000 0 0 0

I use editpad as a text editor & I'm not sure how I could do this as a find/replace. Is it possible using wildcards?

I wouldn't mind turning every instance of that texture into:

...gnosis_full/rtnick2d_wet 0 0 0 1.00000 1.000000 0 0 0

but how do I select all the variations in the first place? 
Nice To Hear From You Glassman 
good luck sorting out the problems. 
Thanks UWF & RPG 
& I've sorted this one for now using MS Word no less. 
Yay! 
 
Yo Glassman 
glad to hear your back, good news indeed for Q1SP, its kinda died recently and we need a boost! :) 
Thread Jumping 
I figured out how to turn 4 meshes into that bow shape pretty fast, but working with patch meshes is bringing it's own problems. For one thing, it's not casting shadows. The other problem is that in game there is a crack on the inside edge between the bottom mesh and the inside mesh, even though they're perfectly flush in editor. In fact, the bottom mesh is a clone of the top mesh, which is perfectly flush in game. 
 
compile with -patchshadows 
... 
not really a mapping help, but how the hell do i get a mod song to work with quake maps? does it requier a to get it all into a pak file and some quakeC stuff? is this really posible?? aliens are horny bastads?? aaa!!? 
,,, , 
sorry for the typos. im in a euphoria state right now. cant keep calm! YAY! 
Bzzt 
Unfortunately, only a few Quake engines can play mod files. For those, I believe you add a key called "mod" to the worldspawn entity (that thing where the map name goes.)

Nehahra seems to have its .mods in a subfolder called sound\mods, or something like that. Basically, check the engine documentation.

Unfortunately, QuakeC just can't do it. Sorry. 
Um... 
keep in mind nehara's mod playing capabilities have limits. they don't support a lot of the cool new impulse tracker stuff. i think it's closest resembles scream tracker mods... but i'm not sure. i only experimented with it for a short while and got annoyed and gave up. 
Agh!! 
ah man. thats not good. i know nothing of coding or well, dont really wanna use a new engine or stuff. but anyway. thanks for the help. :)

me goes and cries happily ever after 
Gtkradiant Spawnflag Check Boxes 
I maybe missing something obvious but the GTKRadiant entity popup box doesn't seem to have the check boxes for !hard, !normal and !easy (or boxes for ctf/dm/TA etc for that matter). How do I get these to show?

If I can't am I correct in thinking that I add 256, 512 & 1024 to the spawnflags for !easy, !normal, !hard respectively & add those figures together for combinations. Is it the same numbers for all entities?

Thanks 
Yep. 
when i map for quake in there, i wrote down all the numbers for each combination of skill levels in a grid so i can easily just look without having to calculate anything.

although, that's probably not feasible if you're going to have more than just four flags (e,m,h,DM) because there'd be so many combinations... 
Glassman 
There's a version of GtkRadiant that supports Q1 (albeit badly). SmallPileofGibs also says that the entities.def has the skill setting checkboxes, so you may want to download it and rip the entities.def if nothing else.

http://spog.tshup.com/GtkRadiant-1.3.11-beta-q1-fixed.exe 
Glassman 
I believe vanilla gtkradiant doesn't support flags that go so high. What I did was calculate all the common combinations of the flags, and then list that in all the relevant sections in the .def file. You have to add those manually to the other flags though. 
Thanks Guys 
Necros..for this map that may well be the solution.

RPG..the entities.def (which btw ends up in your id1/scripts directory) does not work with vanilla gtkrad presumably because, as pushplay says, vanilla gtkrad does not support spawnflags higher than about 128.

However the new q1 version of gtkrad looks interesting. The skill settings work anyway :)

It creates maps in native q1 format so no more converting q2->q1 & the bsp options refer to hqbsp, hvis & hlight which I'm not familiar with. Textures I think go in id1/textures but I'm not sure if anything other than jpg & tga are supported at this stage. If anyone has any more info I'd be grateful. 
Glassman 
If you want more info on Q1 GtkR then you'll have to come onto irc.gamesnet.net #terrafusion (or irc.telefragged.com #qeradiant) and ask SmallPileofGibs. I haven't tried it yet so this is all just stuff I've heard people say. 
My Sm48 Map 
Was made in the q1beta of gtkrad.

It works fine, its just that the editor needs to be able to load wad files, atm u have to type the name of the textxure onto the brush :/ 
Is The Functionality The Same? 
does it work the same way (besides textures) that the regular gtkr does?

what do you mean by type the name of the texture onto the brush 
Empty 
type the name of the texture onto the brush

Ewww. I'll stick to the texture extraction + map conversion method like I did in my sm48. The map sucked, but at least it had a good solid dome. 
I Mean 
currently when you start a map from scratch you have to select the brush/face and bring up its properties, then in the texture box you have to type in the name of the texture you want that brush/face to use.

After you have done that the texture appears on the brush and in the texture window. So basicly you need to do this every time you add a new texture. 
Ouch... 
brutal. 
Unreal 2 Textures Converter 
any1 knows of unreal2 textures -> simple bitmap cconverter that handles multipy files 
Nm 
Found it. Pretty good explorer/converter that supports many games :
http://www.elberethzone.net/index.php?page=dup5&language=en 
AguirRe 
treebsp doesn't like aligning textures right. Is there any way to avoid this problem? 
Check Out The 
previous posts in this thread (#429 and forward) and see if that helps. Otherwise I need more details (editor, compiler options etc).

You could also try my TxQBSP version, it's very similar to TreeQBSP in performance, capacity etc. 
AguirRe 
thanx, that's exactly my case.
I just use WC and compile without those options.

I just haven't seen those posts, cuz wasn't able to visit func for 2 months and then there were TOO many new posts to read them all. 
Link 
i know its not really a mapping help, but i need help so i can do some mapping.

anyway. quiver!! the quake1 map editor... does anyone know where i can get a working link? the official site has it down. wrote the dude 2 weeks ago and nothing!! :(

agh. i wanna make maps using my macky. :) 
Hurrah For Mac Quakers! 
Yes yes, I am using Quiver at this very moment.... I thought I was the only person on the planet who still did. ;0

Scott Kevill definitely does not give a rat's ass about Quiver anymore, I'm sure he does not have it. I have it of course, but no place to upload it to.

Also, If you have Mac OS X, it is possible to compile GTKRadiant, but that is not for the faint of heart (It runs as an X11 app using Apple's X11, XDarwin, and Fink). read the mailinglists on zerowing.idsoftware.com for more info on that. 
Yay! Mac Rules! 
GTK radiant? agh. i dotn wanna learn a new editor. hehe. damn.

i ahve os x, but its 10.0.4 or something. the first version i think. hehe. damn. i hate apple for making us buy jaguar!! :)

hmm... if i give you the link to an account at briefcase.yahoo, would you upload it for me if its below 5mb? :) man. im desperate. i'd do anything!! (except gay stuff, thats just.... gay)

hehehe. damn. 
Softer Shadows In Q1 
If you've been annoyed with the jagged edges in some shadows in Q1, you might want to take a look at my latest Light 1.23 version available at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k .

There are several new options for various speed/quality combinations. 
AguirRe 
Will you be adding support for coloured lighting/.lit files to your light prog at all ? 
... 
whoa aquirRe, you appear to the 'teh r4wk'... i can't wait to try out your light prog, especially the -extra4 you mentioned 
Those Tools Sound Great 
Thanks AguiRe. 
Thanks Guys, I Hope 
you won't be disappointed.

Abyss: No current plans on coloured lighting. 
I Wasn't Disappointed 
it really made an improvement, i ended up with some very smooth edges, will carry on using this i think, it coped with the tyrlite parameters very well 
Yes 
the new light util is very cool, just been playing with it, makes those shadows look so much nicer.

Recommended to any q1 mapper :) 
AguirRe 
Firstly, "Abyss: No current plans on coloured lighting." :(

Secondly, Is there any problems with say compiling with tyrlite, for coloured lighting/generating the .lit file, then compiling using your light prog for the new features -extra4, -soft etc?

I have tried it on a small test map, all seems to be fine, and in the end I get my coloured lighting. 
Hmm ... 
As long as TyrLite doesn't change the entity contents in a way that information is lost it should work fine, I think. Normally it doesn't.

TyrLite will then first generate both the .lit file and the normal light data lump in the bsp, then my Light would make a 2nd pass generating another light data lump in the bsp replacing the previous one.

It seems like a good idea, Abyss! 
The Down Side, Of Course 
is lighting a map twice. and if the lighting process takes a few hours or more... *shrug* 
Time, I Am Not Short Of 
Talent, however, is another matter 
 
.lit files are not light data, but the offset.
If you change the lightmaps in a bsp, you end in the colored hell.

aguirRe : great features. Been wanting fast and more sunlight for all these years

havent found in readme, does it support negative lights (antilights) 
No Antilights 
in this version, maybe later.

If you like the new soft shadows, try them together with the enhanced sunlight ("-sunlight2"). It benefits especially since the sun shadows are so clearly defined and therefore normally suffers from aliasing (the jagged edges). 
Light Prog 
The people demand screenshots that show off l33t enw features. 
Better Than Screenshots 
Get the Light 1.23 version, grab any Q1 bsp that has outdoor areas and run the following command in a console window :

light -fast -soft -extra4 -nolight -light 30 -sunlight 250 -sunmangle 45,-60 -sunlight2 60 bspname

where "bspname" is the name of the map.

Then load up the produced bsp in a Q1 engine and check out how the ligthing looks in the outdoor areas (indoors will be rather dark since all light entities are disabled).

You can tweak the parameters above for different effects. 
Have Not Tried It Yet, But.... 
This appears to be some cool stuff. Outdoor areas that seem to have a (somewhat?) simulated radiosity effect without the complication (or time apparently) of actually doing any radiocity calculations). AND even better yet, you can use a worldspawn light ent to cover the inside bits while leting the 2 sunlight sources deal with the outside shadow fade off.

/Spending tomorrow playing around with this 
AguirRe 
you rock!

i'm using your utils to finish my qsp now :)

lots of nice features and tyrlite ents support makes it uber great! 
Thanks Again For 
the accolades, partial credit goes to Tyrann for the TyrLite features that I've included.

I'm eager to see what you guys can come up with using these tools. Just let me know if you have any problems or if there's something unclear in the readmes (they're a bit spartan).

Running the tools without parameters prints out helpful info and default values etc. This info is also logged to file if your console window is too small.

Please also note the ability in Light to quickly test various options from the command line without having to rebuild the map.

Finally when satisfied, put these keys/values (even range/dist) into worldspawn for future reference. 
Lighting... Quake... & Resolution 
Screen resolution does effect the lighting effect. What is the typical resolution set by players around here? 800x640? Higher? 
1600x1200 
Is what I use 
Distrans: 
Screen resolution does effect the lighting effect.

Really? What do you mean? Resolution when playing? Compiling? What is "the lighting effect?" 
Hmmm... 
I wasn't very clear was I.

Say I'm using Tyr-quake in full windowed mode at a resolution of 320x200. I set up the brightness and gamma so the original quake skill and episode select foyers look 1337. Now, I pull down the console and load map Orkan and when I enter the map I can't see two virtual feet in front of me. Next, I up the resolution to 1024x768 and suddenly Orkan looks cool in all it's atmospheric glory. There's now enough light to see gross and fine architecture, and texture detailing is now apparent (where before it all just looked like various shades of black). It seems that the higher the resolution, the more effect light entities have (I know this is the wrong way to put it but I also hope you know what I mean =) at least for software and winquake.

The problem then, involves the four levels I'm currently working on. If I set the lighting up so that it looks good at 320x200, it becomes "flooded" with light at 1024x768 (bland stuff). So I reason that if I can discover what is the most commonly used resolution for play, I won't go too far wrong with the lighting if I use that as the benchmark resolution for testing light placement and effect on a given level.

That's why I thought the question was relevant to the mapping help thread. 
AguirRe 
is it possible to make lavalight?
i mean the light that generates by lava surface as it generates by sky, but with delay. 
Distrans 
It shouldn't make a diffence.

If "full windowed mode" is not fullscreen mode, then desktop background colour can affect your perception of the brightness. Otherwise... that sounds wierd. 
Distrans: 
what tyrann said.

Fullscreen at any resolution, lighting looks the same. Windowed with a bright wallpaper, it looks too dark. 
Oh... 
Thanx,

It shouldn't make a diffence.

It does on my sys.

Fullscreen at any resolution, lighting looks the same.

Not on my sys.

...and that's probably the problem, my clapped out sys.

Now, if I hadn't just put that new bass on lay-by... 
Wait... 
here's a thought: take screenshots at different resolutions. Carefully examine the screenshots, especaially by zooming in. See if you still notice a difference.

Or if you don't trust that, zip them up and mail them to someone else. 
Vondur 
I guess lava light should be possible using a similar technique, but I doubt the extra coding and processing time would be worth the effect.

Lava is relatively scarce in maps (I'm not so fond of it either) and the lava light would be rather local and diffuse. That makes it very different from sunlight which is more difficult to simulate with point lights.

Hrimfaxi actually had the same suggestion a while ago. He also wanted the lava light to be slowly pulsating. 
Re: Lava Light 
Sounds like surface-based radiosity lighting... 
... 
but that wouldnt work with these tools unfortunately 
Well 
ok, will put light entities all over the lavapool then ;) 
Light 1.23 
I tried the new light utility on a map which was made originally using tyrlite. I found that all the point lights are too bright but the outdoor sun areas are too dark.

Do you know if the scaling of 'light', 'wait', 'delay' & '_sunlight' is different to tyrlite? 
Glassman 
i didn't notice any change in light after switching from tyrlite to bengt's light 
Hmm.. 
Thats strange. Do you use wait and/or delay on your lights?

I notice that aguirRe gives an example above for _sunlight 250. That would be like Marrakech at midday in Tyrlite. I'm not sure if thats the intention or the scaling is different. 
Glassman 
The scaling is supposed to be the same for all individual light entities AFAIK. However, I have default a slightly different behaviour for global light levels (min/max/sunlight) regarding the "-range" option. They're default not affected by the "-range" option while in TyrLite they are affected.

In version 1.23 I added a "-globrange" option to make it easier to switch between the tools if you prefer this behaviour.

All this is of course only relevant if you actually are using the "-range" option. Are you?

Otherwise I don't really know what's up. I haven't noticed any obvious difference in light intensity between the tools and I've run a lot of maps through them.

If you like, you could send me the zipped map+wad (I'll rebuild it myself) and I'll take a look at it. 
AguirRe 
Thanks aguiRe. I haven't used -range.

I'll try it one more time tonight & then send it to you if its still the same. The only thing I can think of atm is that I relit an existing bsp with v1.23 rather than doing a new complete compile but that shouldn't make a difference should it? 
That Shouldn't Make 
a difference AFAIK, that is exactly what I've done with many maps. Unless of course you've somehow manipulated the entity data after (or during) the TyrLite run.

I think there is a "-compress" option in TyrLite that removes light information after usage in order to shrink the entity data size.

Can you run TyrLite once again on the same bsp and get the same result as before (copy the bsp somewhere else beforehand)? 
I've Used 
AguirRe's light tool for about a month and to me there's no difference from Tyrlite, when using delay, wait etc.! But the sunlight/sunlight2 is so much better, not to mention the new soft shadows. 
Erm 
aguiRe, you e-mailed me a while ago about testing your light proggie, didn't you? I never tested it. Sorry dude. :( 
No Problem 
I thought my email server swallowed a couple of replies - it's acting strangely sometimes ...

I hope there are no serious bugs, if not Glassman has found something. 
-compress 
Yes, I do use -compress in tyrlite so that probably caused it. /me is a dunce.

I'm running a fresh compile now with v1.23 -fast -soft -extra4 so I'll let you know the outcome as soon as its finished. 
AguirRe 
Worked fine this time & looks very nice :) Sorry for the confusion. 
Great 
I don't think you'll need the compress option anymore since the tools have pretty high capacity now.

Vis and light data can be up to 4MB each, entity data up to 1MB and the rest have practically no limits (in the tools that is, engines might object). 
Vondur 
You can use dulight for surface lights.
It does no bounced light tho, but combines surface lights with the tyrlite 
Thanks 
but it's too late :) i put lite ents everywhere :) 
Q1bsp Error 
Found some strange errors on my Binair Space Partitions lateley.
After starting the game - failure
Error:ED_Alloc:no free edicts

Should I have used too many entities? 
Gah! 
There's never an edict around when you need one. 
I Pardon, Beg You? 
Give me another answer, & I forget the question. 
Madfox 
I'm an asshole, ignore me. 
Madfox 
You have probably exceeded the edicts limit which is 600 in theory but you can only have about 580 or so before you get this error.

Edicts are all the stuff in the level..brush models, ammo, monsters, sounds etc but not lights. Take some out & then, when you can load the map type 'edictcount' at the console & it will tell you how many you have.

Some entities use up lots of edicts like air_bubbles which strangely uses about 10.

If you type 'edicts' at the console you will get a very long list of all of them with their properties. 
On Edicts... 
quake usually needs about 40 to 60 free edicts for use with nails, rockets, grenades plus monster's weapons (voreballs, scrag shots, etc)

you'd be best keeping the edicts below even 580, like 550 to be safe, because at 580, the player might just get a crash. 
And Remember... 
...lights with targetnames count as edicts. 
Also... 
i believe func_illusionaries do not count. 
Greatly ! 
Thanks for the reply.

I already had the feeling I crossed a limit, by expanding the levels for my convertion.
It would spoil some hard work, crashing on the fourth or fifth level, and still 20 to go.

Gives a good feeling, playing the good old Quake again! 
... 
crashing on the fourth or fifth level
um... maybe i just misunderstood, but just to be safe:
the six hundred edicts is per level... 
A Count Off 
Well, let's have a try than...
Just an ordinairy level shows:

edictcount
num_edicts : 373
active : 373
vieuw : 253
touch : 326
step : 109

I know I can count to three, as well as to 600.
But does this mean 373, or the whole lot? 
Edicts: 
the one you want to look at is active or num_edicts.

the others... i don't really know what they are. 
Speedy 
I noticed your sm31_speedy map and I was wondering what light tool (version and especially parameters if you recall that) you used to build that? 
AguirRe 
question is: have you seen the map (original sm31, or some later version, or just screenshots ?)

its tyrlite and delay 2 lights


I guess you could decompile it and look yourself :) 
#492 Posted By Distrans 
Orkan is a bit hard to see, since the textures are very dark and contrast themselves. 
Sm31_speedy 
I have the original sm31_pack (I think), are there more than one?

I've tried to re-light that bsp with TyrLite and my Light but I can't seem to get it like it was originally. AFAIK, you can't get this information from decompilation, it's all in the entity data plus invisible command line options.

Thanks, I'll try the -delay 2 and see how that goes. 
It Didn't Work, 
the lighting is way darker than the original. Also, I get an error about missing models which makes TyrLite abort. In my Light I've changed those into warnings but the lighting is still too dark using -dist 2.

What gives? Have you somehow manipulated the entity data after using TyrLite (e.g. with its "-compress" option)?

Wait a minute, I just noticed that you wrote "delay 2" and I mistakenly interpreted that as "-dist 2". What do you mean, can the delay be controlled from the command line? Isn't that just a key for each light entity? 
Delay... 
..is set to each light entity individually, like brightness (only not essential). In tyrlite it effects the attenuation, and a value of 2 sets the falloff to inverse distance^2 for the light entity it's assigned to 
 
about dealy xen said it all..

probably it was lit with old tyrelight with -nominlimit option, which actually made light 2x brighter
I can give you the .map if you want
Why do you care anyway ? 
Thanks For The 
info and yes, I'd like the zipped map if possible.

The reason why I care is partly that I find the map fun to play, but more important is that I'm trying to learn more about how different maps are lit and how the "-range" and "-dist" parameters affect lighting in general.

And this map consistently resisted in revealing how it was actually lit up originally. Most maps are easy to find the right combination of parameters (if any at all).

Have you any idea why the model error occurs when trying to re-light the bsp? 
Speedy, You Were Right 
about using TyrLite 0.8 with the "-nominlimit" bug. When retrying with that version and that option I immediately hit the spot with the same light distribution pattern.

Xen also reported on QMap having this problem with his xnq1002 map.

Old bugs die hard ... and there's still no explanation of the missing brush models. 
I've Just Had The Strangest Crash... 
using fitzquake075.
testing out a map. map title shows, then:
got a NaN velocity on monster_shalrath
*crash* to desktop.
GLquake just crashes.

(software iterations load the map fine though)
looked for missing shalraths (vores) didn't find any.

since the only engine to actually tell me anything before crashing is fitzquake, hopefully metl might know something about it? 
Necros: 
is fitzquake also the only engine that crashes? 
Oops.. 
i need to read more carefully.

better question: does this happen consistently? 
It Happens Only On This Map. 
i'm looking into all the vores on the map, but i don't really see anything out of the ordinary with them. 
And. 
it happens ALL the time. like i said, software works, but it seems all gl engines crash.
(i only tested with fq, glquake and tq) but it screws up the mouse acceleration and i stopped testing gl engines because it was pissing me off. 
Necros: 
okay, does it happen when the map loads, or during gameplay?

Care to send me the bsp? 
It Happens: 
when i lauched the map from the command like with +mapname, the game loads fine, and almost right after the map's title is printed on the console, i get got a NaN velocity on monster_shalrath then the game seems to continue loading for a few more seconds then crashes to the desktop.
i'll email you the current compile. 
Something Interesting... 
Metl, you mentioned in your email that winquake crashes as well.

i used tronyn's winquake and it didn't crash (which is why i assumed that regular winquake would work).

so tronyn, what makes your engine so special? :) 
You Probably Mean Tyranns' Winquake 
& one difference is that the max edict count is increased. 
Er, Yeah. 
sorry Tronyn.
working on the same project + having similar names = bad for necros' memory 
Latest GTKRadiant 1.3.12 
Has anyone got this to work for Quake editing? 
I Don't Have It. 
but you make it sound like it's more difficult in this version. i was planning to get it a little later, so info would be appreciated... 
Well 
I got it working, long story, but it will basically only run once on my machine, the next time I go to start it, it will crash with a windows error "GTKRadiant exe has caused an error.......................and will have to close bla bla bla" you know the one. And basically the only way I can run it again is by clearing the registry when the option is there, but then the second time I start it, its the same thing (Groundhog Day) It happens whether or not I load it for Quake, Quake II or Quake III, so I guess that rules out it being a prob just with trying to edit for Quake. I also tried uninstalling my previous version of GTK, but that didn't help any. So after many installs/uninstalls, I decided to go back to the previous version of GTK. Probably something on my machine it doesn't like, Oh well, I'll try again next release.

Give it a go, you may have better luck 
It Works Fine On This Machine... 
...except for the clipping bug and annoyances with the surface inspector. 
Grah 
i'd been scrolling up and down on this page and cant find it, so yeah..


...where can i find some updated qbsp3, qvis3 and qrad3 files for quake2?

thats it. 
Here Nakasuhito 
Yay 
thanks dude. i'd kiss you, but i think i have aids 
Lucky For Me Uh? 
nt 
Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Si Do 
yeah... you lucky mathafaka :)

anyway. thanks again for the link. hehe. me is happy. 
Bah 
ok, q3 mapping for people who are unfamiliar with id's tech advances since the days of q1?
do and don't, baby's first vertical atrium of death, gtkradiant for complete fuckwits, that sort of thing...

I'm asking here because I don't wanna wade through the muck searching for the juicy stuff,hook me up. 
 
I fight int'l terrorism by not spacing my sentences. Apparently. 
Wrath 
All I can say is: Good luck. I've been mapping for Q1 using QERadiant, so I have a slight advantage, but when I recently started Q3 mapping again I couldn't find anything useful, and no one wanted to help me. 
Rpg 
people suck, mappers doubly so. 
Yes 
Agreed. But don't Maj I said that, mmkay? 
Err 
+Maj

bleh. As you said, mappers suck doubly so. 
My That Was Horrible 
-Maj +tell

Triple suckage? 
Rpg 
you suck at the intarweb 
On A Totally Unrelated Note 
suppose you are a programmer. suppose you wake up screaming in the middle of the night, sheats soaking with cold sweat. suppose you walk out into the kitchen, all shivering. suppose you quickly hop back into your bedrom to put some pajama bottoms on, there's a whole bunch of level monkeys watching you via an internet forum for crying out loud, save the children!
suppose you stand there in the dark, with just one singular thought running through your head.

"I have to make the best level editor known to man, if but some level monkey would take mercy and tell me how it should be designed."

Any takers? No?

Blast! 
 
and by make, I mean code. 
Wrath 
The two most difficult things are: how do you best represent what is essentially a 3D environment in two dimensions, and then how do you modify a 3D environment with a 2D interface? Radiant does the best job of it so far, but I don't believe for a second that we can't do better.

I would be interested in seeing some interface that does away with the keybaord entirely and uses two mice at once. Have the 3D view fill the screen and put it all in radial context menus. 
In A Bit More Detail 
Suppose you associated the right mouse with X/Y movement and the left mouse with Z. The camera stays centered on a point in space you move around. When you hold down the right mouse middle button the right mouse allows you to rotate the camera around the point and the left mouse lets you determine how close to that point the camera is. The left mouse right button could open a context menu letting you set things like grid size and sensitivity. The right mouse right button would cover things like setting textures and properties. One of the mouse wheels would have to cover rotating through which brush you're selecting when the point in space intersects more than one. I imagine both left buttons would be used for creating and manipulating brushes.

That's just off the top of my head. There would no doubt be necessary features I've left off. 
Yes Please! 
 
Necros 
I have the new version of GTK working fine with Quake, and have found out what I beleive to be causing the problems I have been having with that version of GTK. Basically when GTK 1.3.12 starts up the entity browser has 2 of the 3 main windows collapsed/closed (1 a list of the entities, the next a description plus the keys etc, and the next the values that you entered etc) if I adjust it by slidding down the separator bars so as I can see the other 2, and shut GTK down with the entity browser like that, the next time I start it it will crash, and I will have to reset the registry, then set up my preferences again. But if before I shut down GTK, I put the separator bars back how they were, there is no problem. At least I know how to avoid it now. 
R.P.G 
...except for the clipping bug and annoyances with the surface inspector.

Care to expand? I haven't noticed anything yet. 
M33p 
if but some level monkey would take mercy and tell me how it should be designed.

Congratulations, you've just made Worldcraft.

PS: RPG, you fool, I love you. 
Maj 
congratulations, you have just jumped to the wrong conclusion. 
Hmm 
W00t 
I win. 
Maj 
if by win, you mean something else entirely - then maybe. 
Abyss 
When I use the clipping tool, sometimes the 3D view doesn't display which part of the brush it's going to keep after the clipping operation is complete. I have to update the 3D view somehow (like move the camera) and then it will display it.

Also, I used to be able to copy and paste a texture name into the surface inspector window and change a surface's texture that way. Now I can paste it, but when I click "apply" it just reverts back to the old texture name. This is frustrating, because sometimes I spend a lot of time scaling, rotating, and shifting a texture to make it look right, but then I want to try a different texture to see how it looks. 
Gtkradiant Again 
so, it's supposed to be really, really sluggish - right? I'm not on a monster system or anything, but with a ti500 and 640 mb ram, it shouldn't go completely aquanox on me just because I have one fucking brush out there. panning and moving around in the 3d viewport is right up there with pounding nails through my cock. 
Sluggish ?? 
No, can't say I've experienced that, and thankfully, nor have I experienced your eloquent description of what moving around in the 3D veiwport is like :)

Your Fired !! 
R.P.G 
Oh i see, I haven't had that clipping prob. Don't beleive I have ever done that with the surface inspector, so I would't come across that.
Thanks 
Sluggish Pt2 
You are of course right clicking your mouse in the 3D view, so as you can use 'mouse look' type thingy? (you will get a crosshair in view)It can give a 'sluggish' type effect if you just use your arrow keys to move around there without first right clicking. 
Abyss 
I'm right clicking, yeah. 
Oh 
also, I'm the head of human resources here, I say who's fired and who's not. Comprende? 
O Rly? 
 
Scampie 
you got a problem son? take it up with mr. pink slip.

two words for you, government cheese! 
Radiant Was Sluggish For Me 
before I spent my last cash to upgrade from a tnt to a geforce!

maybe it's just allergic to people pressing the wrong keys that have been inprinted in their brain from playing around with an ogier too much. 
Cyb 
could be. or to people fucking tail pipes. 
 
To make a good map ed, just let it export 3d max scenes. All in-house tool should have is convinient entity editor and visual scripting 
Wrath 
I vaguely remember Radiant having a little OpenGL info in the about box. Check it's not using MS or SGI (i.e. software) OpenGL.

Aside: Since when did Radiant need a 34-fucking-meg installer! 
Maj 
nope, that's not it.

re: Aside.
maybe its got spyware? 
Bleh 
Can't even get it running here. Bombs out with various gl errors. SPoG hates me :[ 
I S4wk 
For some bizarre reason my desktop was set to 16bpp. 32bpp fixes it.

It turns out that if you take the error message - radiant.x86:28928): GtkGLExt-CRITICAL **: file gtkglwidget.c: line 225 (gtk_widget_set_gl_capability): assertion `GDK_IS_GL_CONFIG (glconfig)' failed - and translate it into greek, then latvian, then spanish, it becomes GtkGLExt el molto bello you're in 16bpp you spack GDK_EL_LA_GL_CONFIG 
Compilers & A Texture Question 
Just curious if anyone has released newer versions of the standard argh serise of compilers for q1+2 or something completely different?

Also I am trying to convert a modified texture for q1 (its a .bmp) into the .mip format. Any help here would be appreciated. (I have mipdip, but it doesnt seem to support the conversion) 
FaTbOy! 
FaTbOy! 
Wally? 
I didnt think wally worked for q1 textures. 
Yeah It Does 
it does a pretty good job, but i'd recommend TexMex over it for what you want to do 
Groovy! 
I am downlaoding it now thanks for the advice! 
Compilers... 
good compilers are here:
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/ 
Thanks Necros...btw 
I was reading some stuff on this board and came across a post you had made about replacing a single texture without recompiling the map. Did texmex work for this? If not there is a utility you can get off "the forge" called updbsp. Its DOS based but does the job.

Ohh one more thing, those utils look like they were made for QuArK will they work with WC also? 
Thanks Necros...btw 
I was reading some stuff on this board and came across a post you had made about replacing a single texture without recompiling the map. Did texmex work for this? If not there is a utility you can get off "the forge" called updbsp. Its DOS based but does the job.

Ohh one more thing, those utils look like they were made for QuArK will they work with WC also? 
Spawning Health Or Ammo In Q1 Maps 
I wish to restock players as they fight by dropping in supplies as needed. Do I have to build special hidden structures with gates to drop stuff in (using appropriate triggers) or is there a more elegant way? 
Scraggy 
In normal Q1, no. With QuakeC, there's Ritual's func_spawn entity. 
Hey Scraggy... 
If that's for hhouse... bad luck, but if it's for the larger project, I'd be up for including that bit of code in the bundle... what do you think? 
Func_spawn Entity 
If this code can be put in the halloween bundle, that would be great but time is really tight. I'll do some mechanical things for the time being but I would prefer the elegance of straight spawning in. I would need to know the syntax of func_spawn. I would use counters adding up monster deaths to trigger fresh supplies. 
/*QUAKED func_spawn (0 .5 .8) (-32 -32 -24) (32 32 64) big/ambush megahealth
This will spawn a thing upon being used. The thing that
is spawned depends upon the value of "spawnfunction".
"spawnclassname" should contain the same value as "spawnfunction".
If "spawnfunction" is unspecified a random monster is chosen.
The angles, target and all flags are passed on
Think of it like setting up a normal entity.
"spawnsilent" set this to 1 if you want a silent spawn.
"spawnmulti" set this to 1 if you want this spawn to be reoccuring.
*/
 
FaTbOy! 
All the tools at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k are usable with any Q1 editor, specifically WC1.6. With the ConvMap tool, you can also convert from Q2 format into Q1, which can be useful when editing in a newer, non-Q1 editor (e.g. GtkRadiant).

The mentioning of QuArK is only to hint that the tools can handle float/ETP maps as well as standard Q1 maps. 
Q3, Map Editors 
are there any other ones currently in development? or are humanity bound to forever toiling in the *radiant-muck, like so many jews in Egypt? 
Wrath 
I believe that QuArK and Quest both support Q3.

There's also edit.com. 
GTK Rules !! 
Sorry to hear you haven't had a good time of it, and resolved your probs :(

It is a bad tradesman who blames his tools ;)

In my case ... it's a pathetic tradesman who can't use is tools :( 
Wrath 
Get to work on my editor wench! 
Oh Yeah 
It is a bad tradesman who blames his tools is a terrible expression. By that logic I would be wrong to blame a warm squash for not helping me cut down a redwood. 
Oh No 
Tools, to any rational, person would refer to something within the realm of sanity, to do with the job at hand, ie, not a warm squash for not helping me cut down a redwood. 
Thanks AguiRe 
After perusing peekaboom's site and reading some of the reveiws on PQ, I figured I had better get newer compilers than whats on the forge. I remember one of the reveiws saying the author had implemented tex lighting ala q2 style. Is that possible in Bengt's tool? I read over the readme but found nothing obvious stating such support. Id really like to be able to use that. 
In Case You Are Unaware 
AguirRe is Bengt, so you are asking the right person. 
Hehe..didnt Know! 
Least I know he knows what hes saying.

One other thing before bedtime...there was a mapper that did a bunch of "space" themed maps for q1. You know the ones with all the platforms in the void. What was his name? I tried to find the guy on PQ but Ill be damned if I can now. Want to do a goole for his homepage/any maps...I really like that style.

Thanks and peace! 
Abyss 
Well what about a dull chisel? What qualifier can go in front of tools which doesn't make the sentence self-contradictory?

The point I'm trying to make here is that you would obviously be right to blame crappy tools. You would only blame the tools for being crappy in one way or another to being with. You could modify the saying into: it is a bad tradesman who blames his tools which I deem to be good tools. But it's very self-centric to say the tools best for me are best for everyone else. 
From The Sublime To The Rediculous 
Theres another old saying you can pick away at if you like, lol

Incase you couldn't tell, it was a joke


it is a bad tradesman who blames his tools which I deem to be good tools. But it's very self-centric to say the tools best for me are best for everyone else.


WhereTF did that come from, I never said it, nor meant it. Get over yourself

pfft........................ 
Fatboy 
I presume you mean the coagula maps by ELEK;

http://www.planetquake.com/tertiary/

(Although all the links on that site are buggered I'm afraid) 
Abyss 
"it's a bad craftsman blahblahgualgh"
there's another saying; radiant is a useless piece of overbloated shit.
look, no smiley.

pushplay;
if I could but write the code that makes these deviled computers go bing. oh, how I would.

In all seriousness, I'm gonna go over my old notes from work and try and put together some kind of feature-list/mission description. something that would be practically possible from first build to first public release.
just for the fuck of it. 
Look 
bad grammar. 
No Wasnt Coagula 
These were DM only maps similar to the ones we see in q3a so much.I think I have one from the author on my HD. I just havent had time to go through all 178 of them to figure out which one it is! 
Wrath 
bah spend more time with it and stop whining or I'll destroy all exhaust pipes in the world! 
FaTbOy 
I know there was a guy who made a few Q3A-> Q1 maps, including one of q3dm17. It's framerate sucked mightily though.
I made a Q1 space map called Void Runner, with slightly lower ( though still extortionate ) r_speeds. 
Cyb 
that's it. you're on the list. 
Wrath: I look forward to reading it.

Abyss: I just hate it when sayings are taken as true just because they're sayings. I also hate it when mysticism is taken as true by virtue of being old. 
FaTbOy! 
I'm not sure what you mean by Q2 style lighting, but there is no surface lighting in my Light tool. Only some options that hopefully make it easier, faster and more fun to light a map.

And in the end maybe also make a better-looking, more realistic map. Try it and see if you like it ... 
Wrath 
Haven't you been reading ?

Shouldn't that be

In my opinion radiant is a useless piece of overbloated shit ;) Look, smiley































































THE END 
Arguire 
Could you plz plz plz *I love you plz* add colored light (.lit) support to your awesome light tool? I know I can generate a .lit and then recompile with your tool but that sucks hard, and the colored lights wont be 4x4 oversampled (??).

Remember what matters most : I LOVE U!!! 
I Second That Motion 
And double the amount of plz's, hmm, I can't say I love you though, how about 'strongly like' 
Abyss 
I always have hated that expression. In my opinion. Well of course it's in my opinion, you twat, if it was in someone else's I'd have to provide a reference. What kind of soft hippie-fuck society is this that we always have to soften up our mental carpet-bombings with a IMO and end it with a got vordamnte smiley?!

This continued pussy-fication (thank you carlin) is a pet peeve of mine. No, worse, it's a fucking atrocity - on which mankind should collectively unleash their bile.

Radiant is a piece of steaming cattle dung.

You think otherwise? Fine, doesn't matter to me. On an unrelated note, do you also enjoy gouging your eyes out? Self-mutilation via dull spoon? Giving birth to a duplex? Anal birth, even?

In other news, I'm drunk as a skunk.

Also, cranky. 
!!! 
I demand that a 'n' be added to that 'a' in front of 'IMO'! Or else the terrorists will surely emerge victorious from whatever fight we're currently engaging in.

Also, more drink, and a pony. And the moon - while you're at it. 
Wrath 
I always have hated that expression. In my opinion. Well of course it's in my opinion, you twat, if it was in someone else's I'd have to provide a reference.
I am just refering you to pushplays earlier comments on the subject.

--------------------------------------------

What kind of soft hippie-fuck society is this
The kind of society that I beleive you would belong to. Because as we all know your projected self here on the net is just a cover. I doubt you would have the ability to stand in a face to face confrontation with your fellow man.

--------------------------------------------

Radiant is a piece of steaming cattle dung
That is an opinion, and (I say again) We all know what Mr Eastwood said about opinions.

--------------------------------------------

You think otherwise? Fine, doesn't matter to me
Oh, but obviously it does

--------------------------------------------

On an unrelated note, do you also enjoy gouging your eyes out
No, but I do enjoy inflicting physical pain on other members of my species, I must admit, but hey, we all like doing what we are good at.

--------------------------------------------

Self-mutilation via dull spoon
I would have inserted the dull spoon into the chuck of a high speed drill first, but, whatever takes your fancy

--------------------------------------------

Giving birth to a duplex? Anal birth, even
hmmm, perhaps you are flashing back to your own birth, where your mother gave birth to you anally, in a duplex?


---------------------------------------------

In other news, I'm drunk as a skunk
Umm, you forgot ignorant arrogant asshole ;)

(ended with vordamnte smiley)

---------------------------------------------

Of course, this is only, IMHO :)

(ended with vordamnte smiley, and an IMHO
Oh 
No offense to your good self or your mother intended, of course. 
Correct Quote-tagging Is For Women, Faggots 
"I am just refering you to pushplays earlier comments on the subject."

Are you seriously expecting me to keep up with the inane ramblings of the servant staff? Uh?!

"The kind of society that I beleive you would belong to. Because as we all know your projected self here on the net is just a cover. I doubt you would have the ability to stand in a face to face confrontation with your fellow man."

Well, I'm a skinny guy. We fight till we're burger - in the immortal words of Tyler Durden.
In addition, I'm cheating by way of exo-skeleton.

"That is an opinion, and (I say again) We all know what Mr Eastwood said about opinions."

I give up. What DID Eastwood say about opinions? (Rhetorical question, do not answer.)

"Oh, but obviously it does"

I beg to differ. I also beg for mercy, salvation, from the idiots. So far, no luck.

"No, but I do enjoy inflicting physical pain on other members of my species, I must admit, but hey, we all like doing what we are good at."

You sir, lack ambition. Why stop at your kindred species?! Fuck the whales, fuck them right in their blow-holes, what have they ever done for us?
Ambition, ambition.

"I would have inserted the dull spoon into the chuck of a high speed drill first, but, whatever takes your fancy"

You sir, lack conviction. If you have to rush it, it's not really fun. Softie.

"hmmm, perhaps you are flashing back to your own birth, where your mother gave birth to you anally, in a duplex?"

You sir, lack finesse. That would be the retort of your average four year old...

...chimp.

"Umm, you forgot ignorant arrogant asshole ;)"
I object to ignorant, the other - I freely admit. 
Abyss 
None taken. If you knew my mother, you wouldn't care about offending her.

When (if ever. Oh, if ever) she dies, I will perform a small dance, followed by a toast. Then, checking the will. 
Thank You Sir 
That would be the retort of your average four year old...

Almost but not quite, actually, it is the retort of your average fourty year old. But I will take that as a compliment. I am young at heart.

As much fun as this has been, this is the Mapping Help thread. So I bid you good day 
Hmm 
That was supposed to be
As much fun as this has been, this is the Mapping Help thread, not the Mental Help thread. So I bid you good day 
I'd Just Like To Step Out Of The Closet For A Second... 
...to let you both know I love you with all my heart and I will go to bed a happy man tonight and masturbate furiously in the morning because of you.

Thanks! 
 
I second the motion. Both. Love. Happy. Furiously.
Good night :)

( look, a smiley ^^^ ) 
hardcore gay bondage sex?! this remindsme, jesus and satan pratice kamasutra together. 
AguirRe 
What I meant about q2 lighting style was the texture based lighting. The fact you could "turn on" a texture and have it emit an averaged colored light. (based on the textures base color) I know some of the newer maps I have looked at have exibited similar lighting qualities around textures as q2 had on some of it textures. 
What DID Eastwood Say About Opinions? 
There are two kinds of opinions in this world: those with guns and those who dig. 
No 
Opinions are like assholes, everyones got one 
 
You had to answer, didn't you? 
Hahahahahah 
I would love to refer you all to the classic internet picture which carries a small messege, unfortunately I suck and dont have it or know the link, so this quote will have to do instead :

"Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics. Even if you win, your still retarded"

:) :) :) :) :) :) :D :D :D :D :D :D !!!!! 
 
At the very least, I strive to be the best retard of them all.

A dubious honor to be sure. Still, it's good to have goals. 
DaZ, Abyss 
I'm sorry to disappoint you guys, but I've no current plans to include coloured lighting or antilights in my Light tool.

They're both features that I don't use myself or have any major interest in. It's also not that easy to incorporate them, they both require substantial changes and add quite a bit complexity.

I hope you'll understand my current stance. It may change of course ... 
That's OK 
I didn't hold much hope, as I asked you before if you were planning it, but you got to be in it to win it, so I thought I would through my hat in the ring again. 
FaTbOy! 
AFAIK, what you call texture based lighting is what is known as surface lighting and my tool doesn't do that.

There is however a tool called q1rad that can do that, go to http://www.orbiter-productions.com/alchemy/radiosity for more details and download.

If you've seen a recent map that has been lit by my light tool and that appears to have surface lighting, maybe it's because I've added some softening features that can reduce the sometimes harsh shadowing of Q1.

I think a good mapper can make use of this and create an atmosphere that feels a bit different than regular Q1 but still with the same relentless combat. Or something ... 
AguiRe 
I have no idea what utility the guy used on the map, it just appeared to be using surface lighting. I will probly try both of them out to see which I like more. 
Sorry To Dig Up The Dead But... 
Wazat's thought process:

>As much fun as this has been, this is the Mapping Help thread, not the Mental Help thread. So I bid you good day

1st reaction: Aw mannnn... I'm in the wrong place.

2nd reaction: Wait, there really is a Mental Help thread? Then the stories are true! Link!

3rd reaction: Where am I, and why are the people arguing?

I just think it's funny that such a large percentage of the recent posts was just a flame war. Here I was thinking there was an in-depth discussion on the higher principles of mapping, spanning over 50 or so posts. :) 
Wazat 
that was NOT a flame war. 
Correct 
That was polite Sunday-afternoon banter. 
Rpg 
A difference of opinions on the finest of points. Carried out in a diplomatic, open-minded exchange of ideas on a multitude of non-offending subjects.

Yes, quite. 
My Mistake 
:) 
Hmm 
That was a couple of hundred posts short of a flame war too 
Hmm... 
If I play my cards right, I can start a flame war over the definition of a flamewar...

/me is left to ponder... 
 
Long time since I saw a good old flamewar.

Someone insult someone! 
Well, Ok. But I'm Not Responsible For What Happens... 
I think Lovecraft is stupid, even though I've never read anything he's ever written and have no idea what it's about.

I'm also not a fan of Giger.

Those seem to be two of the most highly guarded subjects on this board, at least. 
Wazat 
Lovecraft couldn't write good prose to save his life, and Giger was a first class, blue ribbon asshole. I wouldn't call any of them holy cows either.

You suck at this game. 
Wazat And Wrath 
Your favorite bands suck. 
What A Coincidence 
My favorite band is "SUCK" as well. 
... 
they suck 
Bloody Amateurs... 
*cough* scale *cough* 
This Is Too Hard 
Can't we just insult another board and start an inter-forum war? That always works. 
Wazut 
your a flaming cunt. 
Thanks 
I'm blushing. 
No Im Totally Serious 
You come on this board thinking u have a massive dick but NO! U have nothing, just a shitty white name and no brackets!

U CHATTIN' BREEZE CHUBBAH! 
*continues Blushing* 
 
The Continued Misadventures Of Me 
ok, you know how I mentioned that gtkradiant was really sluggish? everytime I moved about in freelook or moved, resized or otherwise violated the brushes - the cpu would peak and everything would go "no-no-no-not on your life pal".

well. It's gone right now. I haven't changed shit. I installed mplayer for windows yesterday, but that's Got damn it.

tried restarting gtkr, could've been a fluke, but it's still as smooth as one should expect.

now I'm afraid of rebooting my system.

computers, like women, remain a mystery unto the world. 
I Understand Computers *way* Better... 
than I understand women. This is why most of my relationships involve electronics. Until the playstation 2 dumped me. Now I just sit in the dark and remember better times...

About gtkr, it's possible mplayer installed better drivers, or tweaked something in your config setups, and gtkr is benefiting too. Or, knowing mplayer, your computer was probably so traumatized it couldn't screw with you today.

Either way, you *probably* don't have to fear restarting your computer. 
Question 
Player can walk over 32 units holes in floor, monsters cannot. Is it possible to make them do that somehow without trigger_monsterjump (clips doesn't help)

??? 
Well 
You could use a func_wall using Tyrann's skip/caulk tool, but then you couldn't shoot through it.

Tyrann, last I checked your skip/caulk tool wasn't listed on your website. I know it's beta and all that, but what gives? 
Then 
where can I get this skip/caulk tool? 
PuLSaR 
May I e-mail it to you? 
Yeeeess 
my e-mail is pulsar_2001@mail.ru 
Look In The 2000 Archives... 
second update. link still works

http://www.planetquake.com/tyrann/archive-2000.html

I do believe that was the only version ever... 
Yes 
See Scampie's post. He rocks. 
RPG & Scampie 
tanks a lot for help 
No, 
tank u! 
Oh Yea-h- 
tanks rocks ;)))

my -h-ands don't listen to me when I'm almost asleep 
Hmmmm... 
German Panther... sexiest tank of all time (especially teh Jagdpanther). 
Yes 
and RPG coming a close second :D 
Mapping Help 
Im working on a Q1 map and am trying to realize this. as you go down a set of stairs a platform in front of you goes down (& stays down) as you go back up, the platform goes up (& stays up). any ideas? help much appreciated. 
Mapping Help 
Im working on a Q1 map and am trying to realize this. as you go down a set of stairs a platform in front of you goes down (& stays down) as you go back up, the platform goes up (& stays up). any ideas? help much appreciated. 
Atropos 
what's the problem there exactly?
what do you want exactly? 
I Don't Think That's Possible. 
since the only way to control a door in q1 is to set it as toggleable. but that means it will only toggle from up and down on each triggering, so you wouldn't be able to control which state it should stay in depending on which direction your going in.

you can try adding an angle value to your triggers that are attached to the door. the angle keys will make sure the triggers can only be activated in a certain direction, but beyond that, i don't think there's much else to do. 
It Can Be Done... 
but it's complicated. I'll post an explanation when i get home. 
I Dunno If This Is What You Want 
But check out this:
http://www.planetquake.com/greyvoid/small_test.map

That's the best approximation of what you're describing I can think of. 
Look At CZG's Map 
He did exactly what i had in mind. 
Many 
thanks 
Many 
thanks 
Many 
thanks 
Many Thanks Indeed! 
 
Famous E1m8 
Thankz..

Here a mapper, who tries to compile a map for
the famous e1m8 gravity level.
I done so, changed in the world.qc name for e1m8,
compiled, but the level does not appear in the game.

Is it possible to do so, or is it just whisfull
thinking?
Haven't seen so much gravity levels afterall. 
Well, Technically Yes 
But, I've noticed that quite often the game favors files in the pak files over files outside of it. However, if you change the directory using -game, the new directory's files take priority. So, you have two options:

1. Delete the original e1m8 from the ID1 folder's pak file
2. create a new folder in the quake dir called mymaps or e1m8, make a 'maps' folder inside that folder and put your bsp in it, and start quake with -game e1m8 or -game mymaps (whatever the folder name is). For example,
quake -game e1m8

A third option is to use a progs.dat or other mod that supports map gravity. For example, I believe my VoidEnts mod allows for map gravity by giving worldspawn a "speed" or "gravity" value (it also supports localized gravity, like in a certain room etc). Then you wouldn't have to name your map e1m8, but you would have to start with the -game parameter to run the mod.

Hope that helps. 
Loosing Weight 
Thanx Wazat.

I am using it in a convertion, so I have to pack al the files in a PAK file as a convertion. Don't know if I'll manege that.
And I don't want people, who play the sequel,
to ask to delete a file from their PAK-file.
Probably they just don't know how, and it would scare them off to play.

I will take a good look at your voidents again.
(As the laserbeam still is a mistery to me) 
Dammit. Why Isn't The Force With ME? 
I'm having problems with patches and my Jedi Academy map -- the patches are quite defined and obvious, and do not blend at all. I've done what I can with the textures lining up and all, it seems that the patches themselves are apparently the tools of the Dark Side. Where is Obi-Juan when I need him? 
 
I suggest just using brushes and not all this new fangled 'patch' technology. 
Qc 
why can't I just change the name e1m8 in the world's.qc into the map name I need?
I've been looking to the voident article, but I couldn't find a gravity option. 
Madfox: 
check out Custents; it allows you to change gravity without editing quakec.

Anyone have a Custents download URL? 
Yeah 
Great! 
Big Thanx there, FatController & Wazat!

I was looking for these files a long time.
Had a lot of it, but only in the *.qrk extention. And Quark is good!
But now I can at least compile with the true-ones.

Anyone seen the dragon.qc ? 
 
I need RTCW single player tutorials, can any one help ? 
First Result On Google... 
http://www.planetwolfenstein.com/tramdesign/resources.html

There's accually a bunch of good tutorials there for general quake3 engine mapping too. 
MadFox 
Try giving worldspawn a "speed" value, that might do it. If not, I probably forgot to update the VoidEnts download after re-doing them for Battle Mech.

I'll try to get that done sometime soon. So busy with college... :)

BTW, Custents is an awesome mod to use. I highly recommend it. 
Doom3: 
Try http://www.planetwolfenstein.com/sp/walk/ -- that should cover what you're looking for, soldier. 
Mistar Webmast�r Metal-slimes Sir! 
I managed to cook up* a bsp that creates that fantastic got a NaN velocity on monster_whatever error in fitzquake. (The one necros was moaning about earlier.) Just wondering if you ever found out what caused it, and perchance if the bsp would be of any interest.






* By "cook up" I mean I decompiled one of my maps with a bsp2map proggy and tried to recompile it again. 
Hmm... 
I used to get this in the debug build, and i was really worried until i found out that the problem went away in a release build.

Anyway, i'm pretty sure it's a compiler thing (as i haven't done anything with physics code) but... hmm. I don't really know what causes it. I can look into it, and maybe i can write some code that says "if you get a NaN velocity, reset the velocity to zero" or something... so that the error will still happen, but you can keep playing anyway. 
P.S. 
Whenever *I* got it, it was always on the player, and always in a debug build. But i assume it's related either way. For the record, necros' map was totally crazy in the brush department, so the solution may be, "don't make totally crazy in the brush department maps" or something. 
P.P.S. 
I'm totally drunk, and i can barely operate the keyboard or focus on the monitor. So it's a wonder i can still spell or type. I guess it's becuase i'm a bad-ass. Anyway. 
More Flexible Light Distribution In Q1 
If you've been having problems with Q1 light banding effects in e.g. arch faces or infinite (delay 3) lights saturating entire areas, you might want to take a look at my latest Light 1.26 version available at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k .

There are several new options for more flexible light distribution. Also, there are several new emulation modes for the ArghLite/IKLite/LightDLX tools. 
Re:P.S. 
For the record, necros' map was totally crazy in the brush department, so the solution may be, "don't make totally crazy in the brush department maps" or something.

The map in question, (which, as I said, was a result of a decompile of one of my bsps,) was composed of 5000 1 unit thin brushes (the original map was 1000 brushes) , each representing one face in the map. So yeah, it was crazy in the brush department.
It leaked too... 
Just To Let You Know: 
it was on a monster_shalrath, so i just moved all the shalraths around. stupid way to fix a problem but it worked.

ps: and it's moaning now, eh? :P 
Floating Items 
Hay!

I've seen some maps with armors hanging in the air, how's that done? 
Floating Items 
Hay!

I've seen some maps with armors hanging in the air, how's that done? 
Bawb 
1. func_wall is a support for that armor
2. set trigger_once with kill_target key set to that func_wall
3. put info_player_start into that trigger 
Or If You're Talking About Q3 
just set the 'suspended' option on the item. 
Qonverge Compile Error - Couldn't Read Rest Of File 
OK, I'm using Hammer and Qonverge... oops I mean WorldCraft 3.3 and Qonverge, and get this error " Error 35: error reading from file. " after it starts to process Hull 3. Both Hulls 1 and 2 apparently have leaks somehow, { "Warning 10: reached occupant at <x y z> no filling performed" ) even though I've made sure the entire map is leak proof... I think anyway. i've never gotten this error before, and haven't found anything on here about this error. Can anyone help me fix this? Would be most appreciated. Happy Thanksgiving! 
Error Reading From File 
Thats a new one for me, and I've been using Qonverge and hammer uhh wc 3.3 for ages.

Just a thought, but isn't hull 3 for use with player crouching? (I might be wrong) If it is then there should be a parameter you can set so that the compiler doesn't compile the map to be "crouch compatible". Which is q1 matters not a lot :) 
What I Meant Is 
with this parameter hull 3 wont try and be created so your error might dissapear. 
Which Parameter... 
is it? Or do you know? I dunno maybe I should try to see if there are some leaks that I didn't get? 
Ummm -nocrouch 
didn't work. I tried it when I compiled, instead I just got the same error after hull 2, so that wasn't it. 
Hmmm 
the problem runs a little deeper then :/

I dunno if I can help any more as I've never had this issue before :( I'm sure someone else around here can help, the guy who wrote the compiler has been known to peruse these forums on the odd occassion :) 
I'm Not The Maker 
of DuBSP (which is a part of the Qonverge utils), but I might be able to help you if you send me the zipped map+wad. 
Efrags? 
I was running the forumboards and came to someone, who had construckted with WorldCraft1.6

He got the error at the Quake1-console:
- too many efrags! -

Does anyone know, what this means? 
Efrags 
I believe this is something to do with complex brush models split over too many leafs in the BSP. Each bit is split into a separate "entity fragment" of which there is presumably a maximum number. It can happen if you use that trick to reduce the number of bmodels by combining ones from different parts of the map into a single func_wall or whatever.

On the same principle it can probably also happen if you have a very large bmodel or one in an area of very complex brushwork. 
Luma Gloss Bump Stuff 
While I'm here I'll ask a question. It's been suggested to me that I make a version of gmsp3 using hi-res textures and all the latest technology for use in engines such as DarkPlaces.

I'd like to do this (as long as it isn't too muxh work) not because I think it will necessarily be any better than the original but as a learning exercise for myself.

Not having kept up to date with this new fangled stuff (& never having glimpsed the doom3 leak) can someone suggest some beginners tutorials that would get me started.
Thanks 
Efrags 
Copied from Google usenet search :

I posted this question a few weeks ago and nobody even tried to
answer it! However, I did find out what was causing it in my maps. I
don't care for ID's torches, so I created my own using a thirteen sided
spike and the light_flame_small_yellow entity. I had tons of these
custom torches in my map and it ran great up to a point. I use
WorldCraft to create my maps and I found that if I moved the entity to
where it actually touched the brush that I would get efrags.

An efrag is caused when an entity is actually partially inside a
brush. The Quake engine is capable of handling a certain number of
efrags, but beyond that number it creates the "too many efrags!"
message. WorldCraft's entity sizes are not always correct, for example
the health entity is way too small in WC.

The entity for the
light_flame_small_yellow is too small in WC also, so by lining up the
brush and entity so that it looked like they just touch, I was actually
putting the entity partially inside the brush. This is what created the
efrags in my map. The solution is to put the light_flame_small_yellow
entity about 8 units above the brush. This doesn't look as good since
the flame doesn't originate at the botton of the entity, it floats
slightly above the bottom. I have noticed this problem with all of the
flame entities.

As far as not vissing the map, you will get the efrags message
whether or not you run a vis. The error is caused by the entity being
partially inside a brush. Curiously enough, light still creates lighting
effects even though the affected flames disappear from the map.

Apocalypse
Andy Knies
aknies@midohio.net


Maybe this helps? 
Info_intermission Cameras 
Is there a limit to the number of intermission cameras a map can have in a Q1SP map? I put four cams in this map, and those work fine. When I add a fifth, either the first four continue to work but the new one won't, or the new one works but one of the old four won't. (When I say "won't work" I mean it won't use that cam for the intermission.)

I guess I've already proven that more than four cameras won't work and I'm just looking for someone to confirm it. 
Glassman 
I can't believe I am giving a first rate mapper advice, but here it goes -- The information on editing gloss, luma, bump/normal maps here is applicable for any of the accelerated builds.
http://tenebrae.sourceforge.net/index.php?page=technical.txt
I don't think you'll need a tutorial on this aspect because if you understand the directory structure used for the accelerated Quakes (Quake\Tenebrae\Override -- for Tenebrae, Quake\Id\Textures for Darkplaces) you have most of the problem with texture placement solved.

If your concerns are with understanding the underlying technology, this guys page, http://www.paulsprojects.net/ can be of help. 
BTW 
I played gmsp3 on the latest Telejano 7.2 a few weeks back, and visually it already appeared pretty damn sweet. Of the three Quake acelerated builds, Telejano mangles the original textures the least. 
Fitzquake 
Thought I might try mapping again. Have been using Fitzquake to play the latest levels.

Copied my old Bsp Editor directory from my old slow computer onto my new fast one and am therefore using all of the old utilities - qbsp, light and vis. All seems OK (the editor works as it used to) until it comes to launching Fitzquake after a compile, and then I just get a crash.

If I try to run the compiled level from the game, it doesn't crash but I get some video problems and the game will not continue.

I suppose the question really is - do I need different compile utilities for Fitzquake. 
Mike: 
Is it actually a crash, or does it quit with an error message?

Is the error message "couldn't find gfx.wad?"

If yes, check out RPG's question and my response starting with this post: http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=4&start=407

However, what about the video problems? I need more information to help with that. 
RPG: 
Looking at FindIntermission() in client.qc, it seems that you're right. That function appears to randomly pick from the first four info_intermission entities it can find. 
Metlslime 
Thanks. What I thought was a crash or video problem is actually neither. I had placed a few brushes in the editor along with a player start just to see if I could remember what to do. I had not created a 'closed world' and the video "problem" I saw was what you experience if you no-clip outside of a normal map.

All of my editor's batch utilities seem to work except BspBuild, which crashes with a 'path not found' error: I am still trying to work this one out but I'll get there.

I don't suppose anyone still uses Bsp and BspBuild these days? Is there a better FREE editor (I did try Worldcraft once but couldn't get on with it)

Thinking of what I've just asked, I am an old dog that probably should not try learning new tricks - I'll carry on with Bsp. 
Glassman 
Here is a visually interesting article on normal map application I just came across in my reading.

http://members.shaw.ca/jimht03/normal.html 
Also 
The techniques described in the article can be used in Blender which is free-ware. 
But Then Again ... 
A quick straw pole: what editors are in regular use for Quake1SP? 
Thx HeadThump 
 
Nearly There (If Anyone Is Interested) 
Got BspBuild sorted out: all of its' settings are in the registry, so just had to find them and hey presto!

So, where do I find all of the old half finished, half forgotten maps to start FMB15? Perhaps I can even join several in 100 minutes and enter them in the Speed Mapping Paks?

Any offers for my straw pole, 'cause if there are better editors nowadays, I would like to give them a try? 
Editors... 
wc1.6
hammer
gtkradiant

minor ones like
quark
qoole 
Metlslime 
Thanks. 
Necros 
I have had a quick look at the gtkradiant site and saw this message: -

Note: some work is currently being done to release a Quake game editing pack for GtkRadiant.

Does anyone use it for Quake1 at the moment? 
Many Use Gtkrad Or Qer For Quake 
but with utils like mapconv instead of full in editor support. It works fine while waiting for full quake support.

mapconv:

http://rem.fov120.com/rem/projects.projectDetails.action?id=3 
I've Never Mapped For Q1 With Something Other Than GtkRadiant 
 
To Get You Started With It 
i wrote a short little "guide" explaining how to get gtkr working for q1 maps.
http://www.planetquake.com/necros/gtkrq1.html

someone else did another guide which i think explains things a little better than mine, but i don't remember who. 
Tigger-on 
http://industri.sourceforge.net/howto.php

is the one necros is trying to remember, i think. 
Necros 
I've noticed that the navigation at your site doesn't seem to be working correctly. Well, no links to seperate sections appear anymore on the main page. 
Mike 
I use QERadiant and then SleepwalkR's mapconv to convert the .maps to Q1 format, which are then compiled with the normal compile tools. 
Yep, That's The One! :) 
also, HeadThump, what browser are you using? there should be a small nav section in the topright corner. 
Necros 
IE 6.0 
 
I use only Worldcraft for Q1 and GTKRadiant for Q3. So much simpler to not use converters.

I'll use Radiant for everything when it supports Q1 'out of the box'. 
Thanks 
I'll have a go at GTKRadiant today sometime.

It looks complicated .... 
Mike 
actually it's much more effective than WC. just try learning its basics and you'll see the light :)

i cannot map in wc after i switched to radiant.

fyi, i made my first map (kaos) for one week. during that week i learned radiant and made the map. 
Scampie 
The MapConv utility is pretty simple. Just put it in a file along with a dos prompt and your Quake .map file. Type, 'Mapconv -toq1 yourmap.map outputmapname.map' at the prompt and it'll convert the map from Quake 3 and 2 formats to Quake 1, and obviously '-toq2' if you are converting the other way.

That assumes that you have Dos available, of course. 
BTW 
You don't have to use the Converter to get the Quake I .map to display in GTKRadiant so you would not need the mapconv tool for that purpose. 
I Mean, 
GTKRadiant already displays Quake I maps. 
 
fyi, i made my first map (kaos) for one week. during that week i learned radiant and made the map.


yes, but what you're forgetting Vondur is, YOU R4WK!!11!!




fucker 
Headthump: 
It's not that it's hard to do that stops me, it's just that fact that I'd rather not have to do anything special to get it to all work. Call me lazy, but I'd rather just work in multiple editors for now. 
Rocks And Skyboxes 
Can anyone help me: I'm finishing Q1SP map where I use sock_eg wad and need some rock textures and skybox to fit the theme (egypt). I have some custom textures of rocks but they don't fit the map good IMHO so I used ID original rock textures temporary and now it's time change them 
I Use Quark As An Editor. 
http://www.planetquake.com/quark/

It's easy, simple, and has a very nice entity/brush list that I can't survive without. One of the major reasons I've never converted to another editor is, the ones people keep suggesting have no entity/brush list. I depend on that do find my brushes at least half the time. I do not enjoy playing the "let's find the obscure brush lost in the jungle that I was just working with not 2 seconds ago" every time I want to edit a brush that's not immediately accessible in my current view or zoom.

And I'm not heavy enough into mapping to go learning everything all over again. :) 
PuLSaR 
I already have 2 skyboxes in a desert theme and I can also make one specifically for you. Could probably do a rock texture too.
Lemme check Sock's egyptian textures, possibly show me a screenie or whatever, and we'll talk. 
Faaaark Someone Uses Quaaaaaark? 
 
Scampie 
Nah, that is not lazy. Alternative methodology. 
Wazat 
Does Quark have a spawnflag explanation/selection in its entity list? I encountered an odd one for the Hellknight that I had never seen before, and it did not seem to be listed in the .qc source either. How it actually functioned (it has to be there somewhere!) has baffled me. 
Yes 
It usually explains the spawnflags pretty well. If you hover the mouse over (or click) the ? button above the entity list, that should help.

What's the spawnflag that's giving you trouble? I might be able to explain it. 
Thanks Wazat 
I decided it was worth downloading (the 4. x) version, and figured out what happened on the source map (one of the 100 Brush contest maps); it was a miscalculation - perhaps from calculating in Death Match, I suspect. 
Wazat 
Between using the 3d view window and a number of commands that let you select the depth of the brush you're selecting I find grabbing brushes to be a snap in radiant. I don't know how brushes are IDed in a brush list but I'd hate to have to remember numbers corresponding to brushes. 
Kell 
My map isn't lit yet. But that's ok I may e-mail you a screenshot.
But I use completely sock_eg wad (without any other textures) 
Pushplay 
Probably so. I just like having brush groups and such listed just like vector paths and layers in illustraitor/photoshop. 
Mystery Leak 
Whenever i compile the map i'm working on, it says there is a leak at a light. The map compiled fine until i added in the most recent 6 light entities. I thought that maybe if i deleted those light entities the map would compile fine. However, when i compiled after deleting the new light entities, the leak was pinpointed at lights that had been working perfectly fine before. Anyone have any idea what's going on here?

C:\Program Files\worldcraft\Q1Tools>qbsp qtooe2m4
TreeQBSP v1.90 -- Modified by Bengt Jardrup

Input file: qtooe2m4.map
Output file: qtooe2m4.bsp
---- LoadMapFile ----
*** WARNING 06: No info_player_deathmatch entities in level
----+----+
2954 faces
519 brushes
41 entities
22 unique texnames
516 texinfo

Building hulls sequentially...
Processing hull 0...
---- Brush_LoadEntity ----
----+----+
514 brushes
---- CSGFaces ----
----+----+
2916 brushfaces
1733 csgfaces
1670 mergedfaces
---- SolidBSP ----
1712 split nodes
812 solid leafs
838 empty leafs
63 water leafs
3029 leaffaces
2806 nodefaces
---- FillOutside ----
*** WARNING 10: Reached occupant at (224 -1088 144), light
Simplifying ... Leak file written to qtooe2m4.pts
---- MakeFaceEdges ----
----+----+
---- GrowRegions ----
Processing hull 1...
----+----+
----+----+
Processing hull 2...
----+----+
----+----+
*** WARNING 19: No entities in empty space -- no filling performed
---- WriteBSPFile ----
697 planes 13940
3034 vertexes 36408
1750 nodes 42000
516 texinfo 20640
2844 faces 56880
1664 clipnodes 13312
940 leafs 26320
3067 marksurfaces 6134
11219 surfedges 44876
6993 edges 27972
22 textures 194772
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 3222

3 warnings

Elapsed time : 0:02

Peak memory used : 2.1 MB

C:\Program Files\worldcraft\Q1Tools>tyrlite -extra qtooe2m4
----- TyrLite v0.94 -----
extra sampling enabled
BSP is version 29
using minlight value 20 from worldspawn.
41 entities read, 19 are lights.
Lighting face 2844 of 2844
Lighting Completed.

lightdatasize: 44429
0 switchable light styles
Writing BSP version 29
2.0 seconds elapsed

C:\Program Files\worldcraft\Q1Tools>vis -level 4 qtooe2m4
---- vis ----
testlevel = 4
LoadPortals: couldn't read qtooe2m4.prt
No vising performed. 
Leviathan 
load up the pointfile in game and find that leak
check the light entity at (224 -1088 144) in editor to see where the path will start 
What Kell Said And 
to get rid of the "No entities in empty space ..." warning in hull 2, you must make sure that at least one entity is moved further away of nearby walls/floors etc. I don't remember the exact distance required (it varies with hull).

If you can't sort it out, send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it. 
Worked Quite Well 
I found the leak almost immediatly. Thanks Kell 
Aguire 
I'm using light entities to do all my lighting. I have my light entities right up against their brush sources. If i moved them away, would that solve the problem? 
Aguire 
I'm using light entities to do all my lighting. I have my light entities right up against their brush sources. If i moved them away, would that solve the problem? 
Leviathan 
if you have light entities close to a brush feature ( e.g. a light fixture ) don't place the entity flush with the surface of the brush; move it away. Distance depends on the effect you want for your lighting, but I'd say 8 uits should do nicely.
Never place a point entity so that its origin point is flush with a brush ( ooh, poetry ) 
You'll Need At Least 
one entity (e.g. the info_player_start) that's clearly separated from the solid architecture, maybe by 32 units (I don't recall the exact value). You'll know you're clear when the warning disappears for all hulls.

Think of hulls 1 and 2 as "pumped up" (expanded) variants of hull 0 (the visible brushwork). Therefore you might need to move the entity yet a little bit even if it's visibly clear off the brushwork. 
Also... 
it would work to add an info_null to your level which is the correct distance away from all brushes, if you don't want to move your real entities around. 
A Question For Speed Map Veterens 
Many maps generated from the Speedmaps actually have pretty decent play and layouts. At the very least, they tend to be of a better quality than any one would expect given the time limit. What kind of methods do you use to speed up the process, or, how do you organize your productivity differently than when you are mapping without the time restraint? 
It Worked 
It seems that you were right about the placement of the player start entity. I just moved it as you said, and all was well.

Thanks for the help Aguire and Metlslime 
How I Speedmap. 
I just use a shortened version of my own mapping habits. Make a cool area, think about what it will lead to, continue down that route. I start with little or no idea what I'll be doing for the round.

My latest speedmap, I knew I wanted a graveyard, so I started with some tombstones, and made it a dark room so I wouldn't have to fuck with the walls much. I knew then I had to go inside maybe a temple, so I built a little entryway, then added functionality for monsters in that room. I add all the entities as I go, making it easy to quickly finish up the map if need be. Also helps think about progression and balence of the map because I know what I've done it what that player has seen.

Anyway, after the entryway, I built the little main hall with blinky lights (my new fave speedmappery toy) and decided to add a gold key bit. My first thoughts were to make a large area with 2 floors and a squarish bit in the middle containing the gold key and monsters... Reliezed I was late on time, and started on just making it a little room with a key and a few baddies.

Decided it was way too easy and far too bland to be worth while, so I thought back to my e4 playthrough for an idea. Remembered the bit with the moving wall that was so interesting, and yet completely simple to implant.

Neat thing about making it was that the candle light models can't move with the moving wall, so I placed them where they'd be in the 'open' position, and presto, 'elder torches that light instantly!' I thought it was a pretty cool unplanned idea, but no one seemed to notice :(

After that, threw in the end, and called it quits. Complied, played thru, Added more shells, health, and rockets than I had at first, and hid an armor in the graveyard, and called it good.

The problems with my method are obvious, easy to get off track, easy to spend way too long on a start area, breeds rather short maps. Some of the advandges are that it lets me dynamic with the map and fuck around with neat ideas withoutworry because I can always end maps quickly.

A better plan may be to quickly build a layout in 5-10 mins, detail it in 50-75 mins, add ents as you detail, and get in a few quick playthroughs. It's very recommended to leave a few mins to test frequently and some spare time for last min fixes. 
Thanks Scampie 
I did notice it -- the map kind of took me back to the old days of the game Dungeon Master where each room was an original way to screw with the player. I wondered when I played your map how much thought had to go into that trick. 
Worldcraft Question 
I've been asked a mapping question and rather than point the askee here I thought I'd ask myself, so apologies in advance if I use any mapping terminology incorrectly.

Using worldcraft shareware version.

Got a .map from someone.

It's all very dark i.e. no lights.

lots of light entities in the .map

Someone else opened it in quark. Lots of light just as it should be.

QUESTIONS

Is this a known issue?
Would the registered version fix it?

The guy in question doesn't want to have to learn a new editor just for this so please don't say "use a different editor".
Better still can someone mail me the registered worldcraft so he can try it and then you can post something here saying "No I won't send you the registered version. That would be dishonest. The very idea!"

Thanks. 
 
Lights just aren't bright enough I'd bet. There's no limitations for lights or anything like that in shareware Worldcraft.

If I were at home ATM, I'd post the registered version anyway. It's not dishonest to get the registered version of an editor you can't buy anymore. 
Here Ya Go 
Thanks 
Cheers, Scampers. Cheers, Starbers.

Now the blind shall eat, the hungry shall walk and the Lame shall see again. :-) 
HeadThump 
Um... I just try to map really, really fast.

Seriously, I do all the architecture first, then the lighting, then the gameplay. Sometimes I set up the brush entities (doors, buttons, etc) as I make them, but sometimes I do that when I get ready to do the gameplay. Frequently I'll do the basic lighting, and then after I check to make sure that's mostly okay, I'll tweak the lighting as I tweak the gameplay. I also play through the maps a few times to make sure the gameplay is mostly balanced and completable.

Also, if there are any bugs, I will take the necessary time to fix them, even it takes 30 minutes extra. Bugs are bad, mmkay? 
Speedmaps 
most of the people doing good speedmaps have probably done pretty much mapping in the past and that should help... another good thing might be to decide on a plan and stick with it no matter what. 
Speedmapping 
because it's "just a speedmap" i do a lot less second-guessing than when i normally map. In a real map, i often delete entire rooms when i decide they aren't good enough. In speedmapping, pretty much every brush is worth keeping.

As for the process, i speedmap the same way i make real maps -- every room is built, lit, and stuffed with entities before i move on to the next room. (Though at work, i've moved towards blocking out the entire level's layout before detailing anything.) 
Yeah That Too 
because it's "just a speedmap" i do a lot less second-guessing than when i normally map. In a real map, i often delete entire rooms when i decide they aren't good enough. In speedmapping, pretty much every brush is worth keeping.

Ditto. 
Title 
trigger_multiple doesn't work inside trigger_push. Is it only my bug or not?

BTW Kell, did you get my e-mail?
and what's up with your site? 
PuLSaR 
got your mail; skybox is made and tested; working on some rock textures atm.
SOK was transferred to another server a few weeks ago when the net cafe where it was hosted closed down; consequently, it's down more often than it's up - sorry :( 
Thanks Every One For The Feedback 
R P G -- I find I have to do the entities along with the archetecture or else my scaling gets out of wack. This happened big time on a recent map I did for a Tikidomain contest that I wound up not submitting as a result of my mistake (it caused problems in the -vising). Chalk it up to experience, I guess. 
HeadThump 
I don't normally have trouble with proportion. This is partly because I have almost all hallways 128 or 256 units wide and 128 or 192 units high. However, this becomes a problem because then everything becomes standardized and the map feels more rigid and less dynamic. 
RPG 
I'm coming along in learning to proportion my maps better.

One way to break from making things look standardized (and after all standardization is realistic if you are doing human environs) is to weigh things down to account for gravity. Have the columns bend slightly in a downward slope, and the ceilings shift around a center of gravity.
I learned this from an architect who designed my old college's art building. He said that he always kept in mind the pivot point of his structures and the natural incline of gravity and weight to that point when he worked out his design to ensure maximum 'dramaturgy'.
It is a bit trickier to do in a virtual setting (veering from 15, 30, 45, and 90 degree brush design causes alignment problems) but that is all the more reason to fight for that extra last inch of realism. 
Mapping Help Becomes My Favourite Thread :) 
Is it possible to create monster clip in original quake? If it's possible than how? 
... 
I mean only monsters couldn't pass thru it, not player or weapons 
No 
The only thing you can do is use a trigger_monsterjump that throws monsters away from any doorways you don't want them to enter, but that looks silly though... 
Only In... 
QC code. If you're not too hot with including a progs.dat with your map, then it's not a feasible alternative. 
Pulsar 
You could just add a gap under the doorway with lava at the bottom, so the player has to jump to get over it. Dogs and fiends can still pass though if the player is in sight... 
Good Idea 
The player can jump, or you can make a player-only teleporter to bridge a gap.

You can also use the fake q1 ladders, since monsters most definitely cannot use those.

Also, you can make a trigger (will only respond to players) that triggers a door or barrier to open or move, which then rapidly closes behind him.

But if you want a barrier that monster bullets and attacks cannot penetrate, then you'll need code for sure... maybe. People always have suprising tricks for these things. :) 
Right 
You could just add a gap under the doorway with lava at the bottom, so the player has to jump to get over it.

Or make that gap 48 unit wide, and put a clip brush on top. (You could also put func_illusionary bars over it so it looks solid.) The player can walk over it, but the monsters can't. 
Cool 
Good to know. I had always assumed monsters could walk on clip, but this makes sense since tracelines go right through them.

Thanks, RPG. 
Sky Textures 
Is there, or could there be, a sky texture without a 'horizon'? Anyone know? 
Well 
thanks for you feedback, but my situation is a bit different, i.e. I need monster clip to protect trigger_mosterjump that I placed for one special monster that should fall on it from above

but I think making a gap around it will help me
/me goes to check it 
Well 
If the problem is that there's monsters running into the monsterjump after it's been used, you can kill it with killtargets you know... 
Or.. 
you could make a func_wall that covers the monsterjump for the earlier ones & then kill the func_wall to reveal it. If both are pretty thin it might hardly be noticeable. 
Or The Floor Is A Func_door... 
...that moves down a few units to expose the trigger. 
Oh 
thanks a lot for feedback, I think now I'm able to make it work as I want 
Warning 12 
Warning 12: New portal was clipped away in CutNodePortals_r. Does this mean I have like a lava or water brush that goes past a brush to the outside, like I think it does or does it mean something else? How can I fix this problem? I used DuBSP and WorldCraft to compule this map. 
No, You're Probably 
thinking of the "Mixed face contents ..." warning/error. The warning you mention usually doesn't cause any problem and I've actually never seen a good explanation of it.

Also, having lava/water/whatnot sticking out into the void doesn't matter at all; it's removed (filled) by the compiler if the map is properly sealed (no leaks). 
Zwiffle 
New portal was clipped away errors can occur where there's overly complex brushwork in a place; it's like the compiler says, "I give up" and chucks the whole thing.

I had that with a couple of tunnels in FC1M2 - so bad were they, I couldn't vis the damn thing. I had to rip out the offending walls and redo them with simpler brushwork. 
Oh Ok That Makes Sense 
Thx I know why I get that problem now. I made a room with like 5 cylinders, 16 sided each with all sorts of decorative carvings in them, something like a few hundred brushes in one scene from the carving alone. Thx for the help! 
Zwiffle 
Carving is evil, and will lead to many erros in your map. When splitting up brushes, always use the clipping tool. 
New Portal Was Clipped Away In CutNodePortals_r 
Try this link for a few more suggestions

http://www.planetquake.com/QuakeLab/bsp.htm 
Interuptable Vis Program 
I believe that on one thread there was a discussion about a Q1 vis program that you could stop and restart, saving intermediate results. I need such a program to process a map that is taking a very long time to vis. 
That Would Be Very Nice... 
I wonder if it's real, or in mid-development/planning... 
I Think It Was Just Some Programmer's Dream. 
like maybe tyrann or aquire. 
No It Actually Existed 
I think Aguire was giving them out to people in the last coagula contest; copies of a vis program that would save progress in the event of accidental shut down (like a powercut, crash or whatnot).. enabling resume next time the program ran. 
Interuptable Vis 
Couldn't you just nice/prioritize it down the point of it being virtually paused? You'd have to leave your computer on, but that's usually not an issue. 
Hm 
You'd have to leave your computer on, but that's usually not an issue.

Why else would you want to stop & resume it? :S 
That Vis Thingie 
I believe Bengt Jardrup's latest vis update has a safe feature which will start at the last save point if you stop in the middle. I'm not sure though, I thought I saw that on the vis update text on his webpage. 
Xen 
I can't wait that long. 
Windoze ME 
...or my internet access manager has memory leaks. I run a clean PC with no background tasks but that still isn't enough on top of 3/4gig of RAM. I have to restart way too much. My map needs days to vis.

Yea, I know a Q1 map shouldn't need so long to vis but I'd like to try the sledgehammer first. I'm tired of this map and want to move on 
Restart Of Vis 
Yes aguirRe made his vis autosave some time ago.
It will restart from the last savepoint if the vis is stopped. A really usefull thing if you have to break operation in the middle of a long vis.

Get it here: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/ 
What Hrimfaxi Said 
The AutoSave feature was added in the RVis 2.19 version in July. If you check out the readmes you might find other useful tools/features as well ...

Scragbait: Running Win9x/Me with more than 512MB can be problematic. It's then recommended to set a max limit for the VCache in the system.ini file:

[vcache]
Maxfilecache=512000
 
Scragbait 
I can't wait that long.

Come again? Wait for what? 
Sorry Xen 
I meant to respond to Pushplay but misread it as coming from you. I now see the context of his comment - to run vis in background and keep using machine as normal. I meant that I couldn't wait between sessions of using my machine to leave it running vis only. I shouldn't post while sleepy.

aguiRe - Thanks for reply. I'll definately add those lines to my system.ini and I look forward to getting my insane map vised (but it will take days.) 
And... 
...it will be worth it =) 
Scragbait 
Do I remember vising a previous map for you that took something like 60 hours?

Anyway, I have a second computer that I can tie up for a couple of days for you if you want. 
What PC 
What PC do you have? Surely it doesnt take that long? 
Scragbait 
Windows ME leaks like a caulender. I used to use it so I know that you can put up with it if you want. But it's going to be a couple years before a new windows comes out, and I'm sure XP will save you at least a hundred and fifty dollars of headache between now and then. 
My PC 
I just can't not abuse the Quake engine. My latest map is brutal compared to Scragbait's Estate but like SBE and a mother's ugly kid, I've grown somewhat attached to it in it's current state. Like the ugly kid too, I want to kick it out of the house rather then reform it.

I have a decent machine Asus P4T MB with Intel 1.2GHz P4 CPU. There's 3/4Gig on board so it should be up to the job. I'm embarrased to say that 4 days later, the map was at 87%.

I should probably switch to XP (not relating this to vis, BTW) and cough up the $150 or so Cdn to get it. My buddy really saw his Radeon 8500 performance take a jump. Are there happy Radeon (mine is 7200) equiped, XP OSed, FitzQuakers out there? I already went through Q1 failure with updated drivers so I've stayed put with older ones. I'm also somewhat put off by the gadgets and visual noisiness of XP but I guess, like ME, you can't hunt those things down and return to a less cluttered desktop and cut down on background CPU distractions. My kit now boots fast and clean. I just added aguiRe's line to my system.ini so see how that goes.

Mike. Thanks for the offer. I can send you the source files and you can shake your head at this thing if you like but no pressure. I'm somewhat hopeful that the interuptable vis program does exist. 
Oops 
I meant you can hunt these things down. Typo. Those evil things like PC Health, System Restore and that atrocious Instant Spammer. 
Reply 
I'm somewhat hopeful that the interuptable vis program does exist.

It has been established that it does indeed exist. You can grab it from here:
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/

And hurry up with that map! :D 
Scragbait 
Would it be possible for me to get the zipped map+wad? I'm always interested in large, complex or troublesome maps to test my tools. 
RPG And AquiRe 
RPG - You're right. I grabbed it many posts back. I'm running it now. Saw that typo and didn't want to look dumb yet again by reposting another correction. I'll learn to proof my stuff better - maybe.

aguiRe - I'll send you the files. I'm sure it will look interesting from a technical standpoint. I can send you my WC file as well since the abundant visgroups will help you sift through the mess. 
Zipped Map+Wad 
should be enough for now, thanks. If I need the rmf I'll let you know.

Btw, is your WinMe system running more stable now or do you still have problems? You might consider upgrading to Win2K/XP since they are far more stable than any Win9x hybrid.

Especially since you seem to have the hardware for it ... 
WinME 
I haven't seen my Internet Access Manager act up since adding that line. I haven't spent too long on the machine since editing the system.ini but my initial impressions are good. 
Scragbait 
The offer is still there.

mikewoodham -at- msn -dot- com

Probably need the .wad as well if it is not standard. 
Scragbait 
Just wondering, have you tried sending me the zip yet or have you been busy? 
Mike 
Is your email working? Tried twice but it bounced. Only message is that delivery failed. I also double checked your email by looking at a FMB readme - was the same as posted here.

I'll try again Sunday night. 
I Sent Mike A Copy 
last night and so far it hasn't bounced. 
AguirRe 
Thanks. Your notes looked interesting: I'll have to try your utils, especially Light. 
Scragbait / AguirRe 
Mmmmmm...

Didn't get far I'm afraid - too many efrags or Fitzquake constantly crashes at the point of loading.

I don't have any other version of Quake loaded now so I'm at a dead end already.

Mmmmm... 
Mike 
What do you mean? I also got the warning "Too many efrags" (probably torches partly inside brushes), but that shouldn't cause any engine crash AFAIK.

I've successfully rebuilt (qbsp, fastvis & fastlight) using my tools and loaded the bsp into FitzQuake 0.65/0.75 and even GLQuake without other problems than the efrags warning.

You'll need more than 16 MB heap in GQ though, add -heapsize 32768 to the command line. I think FQ default takes 32 MB so it should be fine.

What tools and versions did you use to build the bsp? If the map leaks, you'll probably get problems loading the bsp into some engines. 
AguirRe 
I just tried again and can see that after the too many frags message, there is a 'got a nan velocity on monster_army' message.

I then get a nicely controlled crash of Fitzquake with what I am sure is an honest and genuine apology from Windows -

"Fitzquake.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience."

Nice.

Did you see an extremely long brush that exceeded the world boundary when you first opened the .map?

I am using the utils from your site, although I have only run qbsp so far as I wanted a quick look around. 
Hmm 
I have no problems loading the bsp, whether directly from tx/treeqbsp or after fastvis/light. I've seen someone else here also having problems with that float error (nan velocity) in FQ, maybe metlslime has some suggestions?

Did you build directly from the command line or from within the editor (whichever you're using)? Maybe your editor has changed some brushwork without telling you?

I built directly from command line and that works fine. I've also loaded the map into my editor (QuArK) and built from there but then I've had some problems with a warped brush and hull 1/2 leaks. It's pretty slow to compile, too, about seven minutes on a 1.7 GHz.

I haven't seen any huge brushes in the editor, but there is a couple of duplicate planes in the map file that QuArK (and compiler) just reports and discards. I just made some tests sealing off some messy brushwork and converting objects into func_walls to see how much could be gained from that, nothing major so far.

I've also been running a hefty vis session that so far has reached about 72% in about 62 hours (estimated total 190 hours, great). This map is a vis bitch ...

If you wish, we could take the discussion off-board. 
AguirRe 
OK I'll e-mail you with a little bit more detail. But I am off to Valencia in a couple of hours (to watch Cirque du Soliel, which has nothing to do with Quake) and wont be back until Saturday.

I hope it will be OK with you if I come back to you then. Thanks. 
What Have I Unleased? 
The map from hell.

Mike - Are you using the latest patched version of Quake itself? 1.08, I think. Perhaps that doesn't matter if running another engine like GLQuake or FitzQuake.

I have been able to compile and run but enemies become invisable later in the game. I'm running it on a Radeon. Don't know if your display card and driver could be contributing to the crash. 
Scragbait 
Just Fitzquake. AguirRe's utilities. Radeon9700 Pro. Bsp Editor. WinXP. P4 2M, 1G Ram. Nothing unusual? 
Tyrlight Output Of Lit Files 
I want to create lit files for my existing maps, already have the lits from fuhquake. Can someone create a tutorial on how to do this? I just get lots of errors when I try with tyrlight.

sw 
Scragbait 
Did you receive my last emails Dec 11th? 
Shadowalker 
this program, called Onelight, extracts the coloured light information from a .bsp file and makes a .lit for you

http://www.orbiter-productions.com/alchemy/onelight.zip 
Oh, Unless You Meant 
you wanted to automatically generate .lit files... there's a program that gives you coloured light based on the colour values of the textures nearest to each light

that gives pretty poor results though, and I've forgotten what the program is called :) 
Got The Emails 
I sent you an email that got sent back to be for some reason. Is your Realbox full? I'm going to take your suggestions with your light program and your other tools once I've tidied the map some more.

I've been cleaning up my brushwork in the cliffs. It's slow going but should help somewhat.

I sent an email with this question. Here goes:

Real quick question that I hope you can help me with. I'm filling in voids
and cleaning my brushwork. What would be the better approach to constructing
a wall of brushes. Would it be:

1) Use triangular brushes (as viewed from above) to create the bank. This
would require more brushes but I assume that I would then end up telling BSP
how I want the vertices generated.

or

2) Use polygonal brushes. There would be fewer brushes but BSP would
generate the vertices with the possibility that more triangles may be
generated on the face then if I stuck with option 1.

These brushes have straight vertical walls. No fancy clipping.

Just curious. 
Yikes! 
The email above was posted by Scragbait, not aquiRe. I was going to make aquiRe the title line.

No wonder my maps suck if I can't pay attention to details. 
Scragbait 
I've sent you an alternative email address, please re-send your previous email(s) and I'll try to answer your questions. Sorry for the inconvenience. 
Lit Files 
I want to take my old maps and use quark to add colored lighting as exported lit files. I don't think qip engine supports bsp 30. I have tyrlight to export the lit files. Any more info needed?

as 
Scragbait 
Do you still have trouble sending me email or are you just too busy? 
Shadowalker 
Re: #854, #861

What errors are you getting from TyrLite? 
Aguire 
Re: #858

Triangular is definately better.
Trust me, I know ;-) 
(off-topic) 
people are popping out of the woodwork last few days here... Fribbles posts, then Peej, and now Tyrann! I expect to see ZTN, Headshot, Retinal, Escher and all that old school crew next... 
Tyrann 
are you sure? I noticed in Scragbait's map that he'd used triangular shapes in some rock formations and the way they met in very thin and pointy brush corners made me think that qbsp might not like that.

Also, more brushes means more faces to have possible alignment errors in. My spontaneous recommendation would be less brushes are less problems, at least if everything's kept on-grid.

The only obvious risk is that you hit the face limit on the brushes (especially in hulls 1/2), but with modern compilers that shouldn't really be a problem.

Well, you're the more experienced mapper, so I'll take your word for it.

Scragbait: does this answer your question? 
As The Corps... 
What would be the easy-ist way, to change the
sequence tex between the four episodes.
I tried several times in client.qc but this does not seem to work.
Sometimes there is only {WrtiteScript MSG}
Sometimes there is WriteString (MSG_ALL, "As the corpse of the monstrous entity\nChthon

Although I changeds all the letters in the same account, it won't give a ridge.

Or should I make a Quark.qme script? 
Erm 
did you compile it? 
Map Not Compiled Yet 
I'm away from my main box. I'm still cleaning up my map file there. I'll continue in the new year. aguiRe's and Tyrann's answers contradict. I'll choose in a discetionary manor between the two options. I know that distorted (pointy, thin, etc.) triangles are undesirable for Finite Element Analysis (stress, thermal, fluid flow analysis) but I'm not sure if it matters for rendering or compiling. I think it could go either way. 
Scragbait 
Would you be interested to know that my poor P4 has been churning on your e2m1a map for 147 hours (that's six days) straight now and has only reached 82.5%?

To make me happy, RVis merrily suggests that it'll be just another 185 hours before it's done ...

When you have a spiffy new map version, please let me know.

Also, follow Tyrann's advice regarding the brush shapes. I recall him having some problems with his large [yet] unreleased idbase map some time ago. I'll bet he tried a few things to make qbsp feel better then ... 
Madfox 
Editing the end-of-episode text in CLIENT.QC, then compiling into a PROGS.DAT, is the only way to change that text (which should be in a line like WriteString (MSG_ALL, "End of episode text\ngoes here");

However, (at least in the QC editor I use) the text must be on one line. Line breaks in the text string itself are represented by \n - maybe that's your problem. It may be that your text is on multiple lines, and that's breaking your compiler. 
Nailgun Ogre...? 
anyone have nailgun ogre QC that I can borrow for a Q1SP ?
I tried the TUT on inside3d but the ogre would
only fire one nail at a time, and When I tried to make him fire more, he just shot them all at once :(
Basically, I didn't want to go and outright steal someone's code, I wanted to ask first, and or code It myself, but I kinda ran into a wall on this.

Also, are the Zerstorer ppl. still around?
would they mind If I borrowed their chainsaw code/mdl? Full credits would be in the Text of course, how would I contact them? Or does anyone know of a chainsaw TUT somewhere? I think "Street Rage Quake" had a chainsaw but hmmm...

Jimbo 
FC, 
the game will only break when a line is too long and takes more than a screen to write.
but line breaks should cause any trouble... i've written a few end game texts and i've never had much problem with them. 
As The Editorwriter's Corps... 
I changed the text in exact the same count on letters and slashes.
Don't know what it is, had a hard time inding the right *.qc because some only mention
WRITE_STRING {MSG_ALL}

But when I did, I got a SIGSEV failure.

And Jimbo, look at gamers.org
http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2/quakec/monsters/qt-ogre.txt
There is a convertion for the nail org, although you have to councel out. 
Mac VIS/Light/BSP? 
Is there by chance any of these tools for Mac? Preferably OS X, but if OS 9... I searched, can't find anything, but perhaps there is something lurking about. My Powerbook (867) would compile faster than my PC (150) so... 
Jimbo 
You can find most of the golden oldie QC files at http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2. I don't know if nail gun ogre is there, but most modifications that you would care to make can be done with a simple adjustment of some pre-existing design. For instance, my 'crotch sniffing' patch (the Ogres seem to like that one) is derived from the 'crouch' patch source.

As for Zer, I don't know; there is a bit of paranoia it seems in their copyright protection statement(so long as you are just suing my ass, and not the rest of me, I don't care). I have seen the chaingun in several mods though. For some qc patch work that would make for the basis of a complete episode, try Custent, I believe you can find it linked on Fat Controller's sight, and Nehahra has good source code, written in an interesting Pascal hybrid. Source of Evil sounded interesting in regards to its qc, but the download links from Tronyn's site do not function. 
Lit Files And Tyrlight 
I just had the files in the wrong directory, quark you have to your files in tmpquark. Quark won't compile it without a permission error. So, I use a batch file and still didn't work. I just had to change a bunch of lights at once. Finally worked, now the tough task of creatively lightning this older level. More questions...

Can the q3a tool bspc decompile quake1 maps? Because bsp2map, won't decompile scorn and other levels because of errors. Is mike reed still around? I'd love to give "crawling chaos" and scorn a modern look as an experience in mapping.

Also, I have new texture that comes off the wallpaper I made, if anyone's interested. I have the original PCD file, so I can remove the text.

Finally looking for mappers for ultimate deathmatch mod for quake. Mapping functions will be developed more, if someone is willing to map for it. I'll work with a mapper to develop it's mapping standards. If you can just convert a map DM or spq format, that's good. For now, just looking for interest.

as http://www.planetquake.com/ud/ 
 
decompilation of maps won't give you much to work with or learn from. you'll just have a really messy .map file. 
However... 
Yes, bspc does work, to an extent. You can't exactly recompile from it without errors though (unless the original is really simple). Normally only useful for figuring out entity setups.. or finding secrets n stuff.

About "Crawling Chaos"... it's author is now the admin of this site, so you might want to consider asking him about it. 
However... 
Yes, bspc does work, to an extent. You can't exactly recompile from it without errors though (unless the original is really simple). Normally only useful for figuring out entity setups.. or finding secrets n stuff.

About "Crawling Chaos"... it's author is now the admin of this site, so you might want to consider asking him about it. 
Random 
I clicked once & didn't refresh or anything... hm. 
QBSP Error! CutNodePortals_r:new Portal Was Clipped Away 
Ok, this is an Quake BSP error message people have been getting since time began, but I've never heard a helpful explanation of it.

Basically what happens is that I build something nice, my brushwork seems tidy, it's all on the grid and all convex. All good. Then I compile and I get that bastard message.

I haven't noticed any major problems with the resulting bsps but sometimes it seems to fuck up brushes ever so slightly and causes very troublesome leaks as a result.

Can any of you compiler guys explain this error and/or know a solution to the problem?

I have been using Worldcraft exporting to map then wqbsp 1.65 by Ken Alverston 
Sigh 
I found a chainsaw weapon in the gamers archive,
but it does wierd stuff, specifically, the .mdl
is screwed up in normal glquake and some ports,
It works fine in Telejano but fitzquake makes it appear odd, like some of the vertexes were not where they should be,
any suggestions? 
Than 
May I suggest that you take a look at the tools found at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k ?

There are enhancements, too numerous to mention, to the qbsp/vis/light tools.

As for the CutNodePortals_r warning, AFAIK you can safely ignore it. I've never seen it having any relationship with any real problem. 
Maybe Thanbsp Is In Order 
which removes error messages, so as far as I know, everything is hunky dory :)

I'll check out your tools. I had actually seen them before and was planning to try them out but hadn't gotten around to it. Does you bsp support worldcraft exported maps? I think WC does something funny with normals and some textures can end up the wrong way around (particularly on 45 degree slanted stuff.) 
You Can Use 
the tools together with any editor that can produce vanilla Q1 map files and they also support QuArK ETP format. With ConvMap, you can convert Q2 maps into Q1 if your editor produces that format (e.g. GtkRadiant).

As for the texture axis issue, I think that those who prefer WC+TreeQBSP always use the "-oldaxis" option. Using TxQBSP, there is only one variant and AFAIK, it works as it should with WC.

I personally prefer Tx because it's more flexible and it has all the important features of Tree. Both compilers produce near identical results on any map.

They have opposite default values for watervis though (backwards compatibility), Tree has it default off and Tx default on. Both can be switched either way, of course.

Both also have a multitude of options; run the compilers without parameters and they will print out a brief explanation. The rest is in the readmes.

Let me know if you run into problems. 
Jimbo 
I looked at the weapons listing gamers has for Quake QC and there are several chainsaws listed. If you narrow down the file name, I'll be glad to take a look at it and see if I can clean it up for you. It could be a simple matter of turning some normals around. 
ch_saw.zip was the one that I tried,
Mainly because it had source included,
I didn't want to try and decompile something. 
Begining Mapping 
#880 posted by xen [82.32.34.150] on 2003/12/24 21:10:47
>Yes, bspc does work, to an extent. You can't exactly recompile from it without errors though (unless the original is really simple). Normally only useful for figuring out entity setups.. or finding secrets n stuff.

Nope, I decompiled scorn with no trouble. Next, I recompiled with treeqbsp, rvis, and tylite with no problems, worked flawlessly. Just took four hours total with my dino p200.

>About "Crawling Chaos"... it's author is now the admin of this site, so you might want to consider asking him about it.

I sent him an email weeks ago, no responce.

I'm going to add eye candy to scorn and more rooms for the mapping experience... I'm not used to mapping in 3d, so this is a pain. For now, i'm re-lighting elmdm5(elmmagi series dm maps). I keep getting disoriented and changing the wrong lights, using the 3D window and normal xy and xz windows. Any tips?

as 
Chain Sores 
I used the Zerst�rer chainsaw in OUM, mentioned that it came from that mod. That seems to have saved me from being assailed by Psycho Copyright Lawyers From Hell.

There was another chainsaw mod I saw where you could climb walls with it, but I didn't use that since it wasn't as good looking. 'Sides, climbing walls would've scrozzled the levels. 
Correction - To Wazat 
That came out wrong. When you view the 3D window in quark. The light entity shown has no depth perception. They look the same size no matter how far or how close you are to them. I'm having to look at all three window at once to find the right location to the light. I keep missing the target and changing the wrong light. Any tips as to how to nav better?

as 
Shadowwalker: 
I sent him an email weeks ago, no responce.

Uh, I hardly think that December 23rd qualifies as "weeks ago." Anyway, be patient and you'll get a reply. 
 
In the fast paced mapping world, days are weeks and every second counts! 
Eh... 
...nice colour scampie 
Jimbo 
I just got back from me mum's birthday dinner. I'm going to work on it tonight. No biggie. Model making (and correcting) and texturing I consider fun. Animation, however, makes me cry like a wee little girl.

FC, that is a good sign, indeed. Perhaps, the fellows who made Zer~ no longer have a bulldog lawyer on retainer to sniff us rebellious, retrobate modders out for our pernicious tomfoolery. 
Distrans: 
thanks, thought it was time for a change. 
Going Native 
I was rebuilding the model from scratch, rebuilding each frame as a seperate asc just to ensure no incapatabilaties between them (though I have a feeling the problem may be in the qc compatabilaty , I had the same problem with Fitz that you reported). The skin is in a non standard size for plain modelgen, and it would be no problem in QpenQuartz but I no longer maintain Linux or Cygwin on my system and the OpenQuartz utilities need the libpng.2.1.dll to function. Anyone know of an easier solution than extracting the .dll from a Cygwin build? 
Update 
Just to save time I built the mdl file with a nuetral skin and with the original id tools, and the same problems persist.

I checked out the .qc files to see if it was worth recompiling them (the file dates april 97 which makes me assume the progs.dat is out of date) but there are some problems in the naming convention. It is used as a replacement for the axe, and it keeps the IT_Axe naming convention in the player.qc file, but renames the mdl file v_axe, and in the weapons.qc the functionality for it is labeled fire_axe.
Mind, if the original programmer kept this consistent, it is not a problem in and of its self, but I have not spotted the necessary linkage between the model, postional name, and weapon function that would have to be there to make it function normally.

I'm just going to go ahead and recompile it as is and see what happens. 
Sent Many Messages 
#892 posted by metlslime [216.190.2.43] on
"Uh, I hardly think that December 23rd qualifies as "weeks ago." Anyway, be patient and you'll get a reply."

Actually, i'v sent a few over the last few years that I recall, Might have been bad adresses and/or got lost in cyberspace. Too bad you missed my raves about that level.

as 
Okay, This Is What I Can Report 
The source code for that chain saw is good code. All the functionality connects as it should, and the gib spray code the programmer added is pretty sweet. The fact he was doing arm positioning back in early 1997 is impressive.

I recompiled it adding the player.qc file and weapons.qc to a clean version of v106qc, and these are the results using both the mdl that came with it, and my rebuild:

Unmodified (software) Quake -- It works
Telejano -- It works
Dark Places -- It works
Tenebrae -- It works
FitzQuake -- Chokes on it like something obscene
GLQuake -- boinked beyond belief

The only other one I would bother to look into is Tomaz Clean Source; the executables derived from it work so it should as well.
It is just a peculiarity of the way GLQuake reads model files. I believe a solution to this problem was posted over at QuakeC Extreme (http://qcx.telefragged.com) so I'll check into that sometime.

There are two other possibilaties -- include an executable with your project. I would personally ask Tei if its okay, he is pretty flexible, or, use FC's OUM as a source. Abuse his generosity for all it is worth. Take his turrent code while you are at it </;-)

Personally I like that chain saw source code you brought to my attention. The next step I'm going to take with it is to borrow my neighbor's Black'n'Decker and make a high polyversion for my darkplaces mod. 
Broken In Glquake 
One thing you might wanna try if it's looking all messed up in glquake, but working in other engines, is the mesh files(assuming you haven't already).

Glquake builds mesh files of quake models once, and saves them in moddir/glquake(and/or id1/glquake). Most modern engines no longer do this, as it causes problems if you change the model or load a different model with the same name. Instead they build the meshes from scratch each time you run it, as it's fairly fast.

So, I'd recommend deleting your glquake folders in both id1 and the mod directory. It is important to delete the id1 copy, as mods will look for meshes in there, even if the mod changes the model that mesh corresponds to. Don't worry about deleting anything important, all this stuff will be rebuilt automatically. 
Yeah, So 
where do you go for beta testing?
does anyone here still betatest q1sp maps? 
Necros: 
of course people still beta test q1sp maps.

Either ask some of your buddys here, openly ask for people to mail you if their interested, just put the beta up and link it for anyone to grab (screenshot thread, at least back on Qmap, used to double as the beta testing thread too so that'd be the place to do it), or hop on IRC, go to irc.gamesnet.net in #terrafusion and ask some of us to quit being losers and beta test your damn map. Plenty of options.

Also, I'd beta test your map if you want, just shoot me an email or something. 
Hardly Dare To Ask... 
betatesting?
Great, I was bizzy with Starlight21.
He tested my first 5 levels, and did a great job! Sure he did.
I have the levels ending on e1m2.
So ready to send you. If you can have some Old School Q1 ragging? 
Thanks guys,
Deleting the meshes didn't work for Fitzquake, it still died, normal glquake worked though.

I may use this version of the saw anyway,
looks like it is easier to integrate into
my current codebase than the Zer/OUM saw.
If I rename the .mdl (in code and file) it shouldn't conflict with the axe mdl meshes. 
Hey Guys... 
If you have a repeatable bug (crash or otherwise) in fitzquake, i'd love to hear about it. Send me an email if you can. 
What Is It With 
sections of a brush being transparent for apparently no reason at all?

my fix is to put a same sized, same textures brush as func_illusionary but it's just a hack, really... 
Metlslime 
Certainly. I haven't had a chance to test things since Friday, but I would suspect the source of the error is that FitzQuake is not allowing an override for the chainsaw uses the same .mdl name as the axe.

I apologize that I am not as familiar with your code base as I should be given the many bug fixes you have implemented for the Quake Source.

If I get some free time later in the week, I'll test this out further and e-mail what I find and any fixes that I may come up with. 
Metlslime 
I still have problems with FQ 0.75 aborting with "Bad surface extents" although the readme says that it's fixed. Also, I've also had rare aborts with something lika "Texture is not 16 aligned". 
Necros - I Test SPQ1 
I've got lots of experience. I'm available for testing in early January. 
AguiRe 
Cleaner map will come in January. I feel sorry for your P4 chewing the gristle that is my map. What I've done so far is neater and internal voids are being filled in.

Distrans - Good to see you posting. Know that I'm fighting the good battle to see E2M1a compiled. 
Heh 
My P4 didn't know what it volunteered for; it's currently at 98.27% after nearly 299 hours with an estimate of another 35. That's 12 days straight over a period of 19 days real time. A new record for me at least.

Scrag, don't worry, I do it mostly to see if it's actually going to finish and to test my tools. Just let me know when you have a new version ready and we'll take it from there. 
Aquire: 
the only case of "bad surface extents" i fixed is when it's caused by a missing sky or water texture in the bsp file.

As for the "not 16 aligned" message, i'll look into that when i get home (i'm on vacation currently.) 
Refer#910 
awesome, gimme your email and i'll shoot a message off to you around that time. 
Necros: 
check your mail man, just sent you a bunch of comments and suggestions.

Madfox: Sorry I haven't gotten back to you yet, I'll peek at your map really soon. 
Scampie, 
i didn't get the email.
did you send it to either necros@planetquake.com or necros@rogers.com? 
Phait, You Wanted Mac OS Compile Tools? 
this site should have them: www.planetquake.com/paroxysm 
Grahf 
Thank you very very very much! :) 
Hellllp! 
...Does anyone know how to get GtkRadiant 1.4.0 working for quake mapping... I already read the Tuts by Tig and Necros (thanks a lot guys) but they're both for version 1.2... Anyone has a clue? I'm a complete newbie, so the question could be very stupid..... 
Necros: 
to necros@rogers.com 
Got It! 
thanks for the awesome feedback, Scampie! 
Scragbait 
Your map finally finished vising:

---- Vis 2.22 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup

File: e2m1a.bsp
6117 portalleafs
22174 numportals
Loading state file: e2m1a.vis
testlevel = 4

average leafs visible: 552
max leafs visible: 2336 near (-2885 -1736 1184)
c_chains: 2789094431
visdatasize: 1169545 compressed from 4679505

Elapsed time : 5h 45m
Session time : 346h 1m


The bsp actually works, too (at least in FQ). Max wpoly is about 3500 near the power plant tower (the coordinates above).

I sincerely hope that you can reduce the fullvis time from its current 14 days ... 
-Alternateaxis 
I may be doing something wrong, but how can I put in a parameter for the BSP program in Worldcraft 1.6? I've got 4 different BSP's: WC's, Tyr's, Tree and W. I'm having the problem with 45 degree angle texture misalignments. I've tried the paramter under Tools/Options/ and in the BSP path field... with some BSP programs it throws an error in the process window and continues to compile, in some it just builds with no error.

Or am I just better off BSP'ing manually? I had fixed this issue a long time ago, but I think it may have been a modded .FGD actually. Also, is there a certain FGD you would suggest getting that I may be better off with regardless? 
Phait 
dont use the worldcraft process window, just open a dos window (start->run->command (or cmd if running 2000/XP) and compile from there.

and -alternateaxis is probably what you want. as long as the texture is aligned in wc it will show up fine w/that 
Oh, And... 
fgds shouldnt really mean anything to your compiling other than where items are placed, use czg's it has fixed item-offset bugs iirc:
www.planetquake.com/greyvoid/quake.fgd 
Damnit 
 
Thanks 
Texture Mess 
Have a Q1map, which makes account of :
prepare used textures => 26 textures
Compiling it makes account of 29 textures.
Did'nt use animated textures.

What happened?
Pretty queer, because the map is 1.87Mb and won't run for 1.89Mb

Grandwoofer, help! 
Bsp Build With Treeqbsp 
Building hulls sequentially...
Processing hull 0...
------ Brush_LoadEntity ------
----+----\
WARNING: Couldn't create brush on line 602 with 6 faces, metal2_8
WARNING: Couldn't create brush on line 593 with 5 faces, metal2_8
----+----+
731 brushes read

Has anyone encountered this before? How to find and fix this. Occurred on elmdm5.

as 
Shadowalker 
Open the map file back into your editor.. it should remove the dodgy brushes. Resave and recompile. Note it's the file with the '.map' extension you want, not the editor-specific one like .rmf/.qle or whatever. 
Or If It Doesn't... 
if you use gtkradiant: edit the .map file in edit or notepad or whatever, go to line 602, (or 593 as well) and find out what brush # it is.
now go in gtkr, and use the search for brush and search for the brush #. then you can delete it and remake it or whatever you chose to do.

otherwise, if you don't use gtkr, and can't find it in the editor you DO use, simply delete the entire reference to the brush in the .map file manually, then compile and find out what you took out. 
Or 
replace the texture (metal2_8) to something obvious so you can delete it in your editor (what ive done, esp in areas with lots of brushes) 
AguirRe 
You've got mail 
Map Compile In Elmdm5 
Thanks for the info. I use quark, not interested in GTKR until it fully supports q1 maps, too much hassle. I'll stick with quark's one click loading. FYI, ELMDM5 is simple map, yet lot of fun to play. Quark wouldn't let me use groups with the bsp file. So, I had to decompile and recompiled it, just over 20 mins to compile.

I found that when I turn off "write float coords" in options, it causes a bunch of errors. Any suggestions how to configure quark to int coords without errors?

Also, decompiling and recompiling the map added 764 new faces, yuck. I'm learning quite a bit about it's put together. Almost finished completely relighting with tylite and adding some eye candy. Not ready to make a map yet.

as 
... 
if you already have a map in there, then turn off floating point, quark simply rounds all the coordinates to the nearest integer. so you get lots of hairline fractures and offset brushes.

aguire made a pretty cool program that attempts to correct most of the problems that you get from converting floating point to integer coordinate maps. it's not completly succesful -- you'll still need to fix a few brushes, but for the most part, it saves tons of time. 
Dilvish - Full_bright Query From Last Year 
I don't know if you are still having a problem with fullbrights but you can get rid of them in TexMex 3.4:

1. uncheck Use Full Brites in the Preferences/Workspace tab

2. import the .wad file

3. select the texture with the fullbrights

4. click the Adjust Brightness button, click Remove Brites, click apply

Repeat for all necessary textures. Save .wad.

I've used this on David Gurrea's rock textures -it's fast, 40 textures took me 2 minutes to convert i.e. it's as fast as you can click. 
Non Solid 
I was trying to make a map but all of a sudden many of the entities became nonsolid, buttons, doors e.t.c. You can walk right through them. There has been no warning from the qbsp program.
Does anyone know why this happenss. 
Q1 Clipping Errors 
If you're having trouble with clipping errors in your Q1 map (player walking/falling through solid brushes), you might be interested in the following procedure.

Compile the map with one of my compilers (http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k) and add the options "-solid" and "-hull 1". The first one just disables all liquid brushes and makes the sky solid and the second makes the player clipping hull visible. The build time will probably be longer than usual.

Then load the bsp into an engine, turn on gl_clear 1 in the console and noclip around in the map. Don't worry if the map looks a bit different than usual, all brushes are expanded a bit so it will look rather cramped at places.

If you notice something that looks like a HOM effect, then that area is likely to have clipping errors. After identifying the problems spots, inspect those areas carefully in the editor. There are probably some brush misalignments there. When the HOM effect disappears, the brushes are OK. 
AquirRe 
When will you add the negative lights support in your light tool? 
Clipping Errors 
I'll have to give this another try when I get my editor back up and running.

Note that 'gl_clear 1' will turn off the HOM effect and you'll just see a solid colour instead (red in normal GL Quake, void grey in FitzQuake/TyrQuake) 
Tyrann 
As you already know, I've had this option for quite some time but I just discovered a couple of days ago this connection with clipping errors.

Normally one has to tediously move around in the map bumping every wall to discover the nasty clipping errors. This really helps in that process.

I must point out though that there could still be clipping errors even if there is no HOM, so it's no Magic Bullet.

PuLSaR: Sorry, no current plans on Antilights. 
AguiRe 
could this be used to find spots where a player will get stuck on the joints of a 45� ramp? 
It Might 
because one big reason for clipping errors is two or more brushes that meet in a non-axial manner and that are also not aligned properly.

I'm right now trying to use this "feature" on a large number of maps that I've had problems with to see how it can help finding spots that the compiler apparently has some difficulties to handle.

Typical causes are very tiny brush gaps, overlaps or faces, either directly on the proposed brush or in an adjacent one. Most of the time it's in a non-axial junction.

But as I mentioned above, it doesn't catch all cases and it's certainly no guarantee that there is an obvious problem spot where the HOM is found.

Still, I find it a major help in tracking down these evil map-traps. 
Float Coords In Quark 
#935 posted by necros
>if you already have a map in there, then turn off floating point, quark simply rounds all the coordinates to the nearest integer. so you get lots of hairline fractures and offset brushes.

Thanks all, this will help.

> aguire made a pretty cool program that attempts to correct most of the problems that you get from converting floating point to integer coordinate maps. it's not completly succesful -- you'll still need to fix a few brushes, but for the most part, it saves tons of time.

I didn't see it on:
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/

Where is it?

as 
It's The One Called ConvMap 
It has several conversion/fixup modes, but its original purpose was what necros mentioned; to convert a float map into an integer one with as little accuracy loss as possible. Check out the readme for details.

But if you use QuArK, I'd recommend that you don't disable float coords in map file, you'll just end up in Qoole hell. Load the decompiled map file into QuArK, roll up your sleeves and start the repair job (it might take a while).

Also, notice that there are many compiler warnings that you can safely ignore. 
Clipping Errors Follow-Up 
I've now gone through a lot of maps armed with the -solid and -hull 1 options, looking for HOMs and thereby clipping errors. I find it very useful because there are normally not so many of them, so you can easily go through them one by one, checking if they're worth fixing.

Some maps can't be built this way right now; when loading the bsp, the engine aborts with a cross connected doors error. I suspect it to be two normally separated doors that melts together in hull 1.

In the next version of my compilers, I hope to have an option -noents that removes all entities from the map except world and players. This takes care of the door problem and furthermore, it makes it a lot easier and faster to navigate the map (especially a big one).

No more worrying about monsters chasing your tail, triggers that set off in your face or you accidentally stumbling into a teleporter or change_level portal. Freedom at last ...

Checking the map visually in hulls 1/2 also has another unexpected bonus. If your map is big and you're close to the max clipnode limit (32767), you might find that large parts of the map are not filled in hulls 1/2 due to brushes melting together.

With some simple modifications, you might be able to fill those areas and thus lowering the # clipnodes significantly without changing the appearance at all. 
... 
i'm still not quite clear on what it means to compile with the hull1 or whatever... how does that relate to clipping?
*confused* 
I Was Afraid That 
someone would ask ...

Every Q1 map has three hulls 0-2. Hull 0 is what you build in the editor and is normally what you see in-game. This visual hull is not what the player (or other entities) is "clipped" against, i.e. checked for collision so you can "feel" the wall.

This is due to speed reasons, it's easy to clip a point sized (infinitely small) entity like a rocket against hull 0, but for bigger entities like the player, there is a bounding box around it that defines its volume in space. When Q1 was made in '96, it was probably considered too processing consuming to clip the entire bounding box against hull 0 in the game engine so another solution was made.

If the qbsp compiler would, instead of just building hull 0, automatically build two other hulls (1 and 2) by expanding all brushes in hull 0 outwards the same distance as the bounding box for player or shambler sized entities, it would be much easier for the game engine to clip the bigger entities. It then only has to clip the mid-point of the bounding box against one of the other hulls to see if they collide. This is the same thing as clipping a point sized entity against hull 0.

So each time you look at the compiler output, you'll see something like Processing hull # three times. This is when the compiler builds your map, first the normal visible hull, then automatically generating hulls 1/2 by expanding the brushes in hull 0. The end result is three separate hulls in each bsp that the engine will load and use while playing.

What I've done via the -hull # option is to trick the compiler to build hull 0 the same way as it does for the other hulls, by expanding the brushes a bit, thus making one of the other hulls "visible". First I did this for educational purposes, to better understand how a bsp is built and, like you, get a clearer picture of what these other strange hulls were.

I didn't know then that by inspecting the map in the shape of one of the other hulls, you might use certain visual anomalies (like HOMs) to identify areas with problems. After identifying the area, you just make a closer inspection of that area in the editor and hopefully find the cause of the problem (typically some kind of brush misalignment).

If all this still seems confusing, just build one of your own maps (preferrably a small one) using the -solid and -hull 1 options and load the bsp into an engine and I'll think you'll understand better. 
AguirRe 
thanks for the explanation!
very useful :) 
Hah 
i just tried hull 1 thingy on my map! oh my! it looked like bloated dungeon of fat evile! :) it was funny :)
and it's indeed useful, ispecially when you're not sure if player is able to get into some area, this option helps very much.
yet i've found the reason of weird clipping behaviour in some place thanks to this.

thanks again, bengt :) 
 
i just tried hull 1 thingy on my map! oh my! it looked like bloated dungeon of fat evile! :) it was funny :)

Yeah but what did it look like *with* the hull 1 option? ;-p 
Vondur 
If you think your map looked fat evile in hull 1, try hull 2 instead. Sometimes, the whole map melts together into a real mess ...

Fixing things in hull 2 only helps shamblers and the like, not as important as the player.

There is an interesting thing regarding the various entity sizes. I have many times noticed that scrags and spawn seem to be able to sometimes move through solids, very annoying when fighting them.

I haven't confirmed this, but could it be that they are in fact point sized entities, so the smallest crack between walls will let them through? Or is there another reason? 
... 
i've noticed the scrag problem myself. it would happen sometimes in nesp09, in the underground lava cavern. the scrags would spawn by the falls, and would sometimes clip right through the wall into the cave. it seemed to happen when there were a lot of scrags bunched up, so i just reduced their numbers and the problem went away...
incidentally, the scrags do have bounding boxes, they are the same size as a player entity. so i don't know why this happens.

also, the hull1 hull2 thing explains alot regarding bounding boxes. i could never figure out how the big dragon in nesp06 was able to fit through smaller passageways even though it had a massive bounding box.

thanks a lot for the clarification 
Hmm 
maybe since they're monster_wizard they can turn on their NOCLIP? :) 
Magic Scrags 
sv_move.c:SV_movestep treats normal and FL_FLY entities differently. I haven't time to examine it closely, but it looks a bit odd. aguiRe; see what you think. 
I'm Not Very Good 
at QC, I've only made some minor fiddling with it. I was just curious whether the issue was related to the entity size but apparently it wasn't. Come to think of it, it probably would be a lot more difficult to hit a scrag with a bullet if it had no volume. 
Scrags... 
don't actually use flying thing... they are set to movetype_step... it's confusing. 
Movetype_step 
i believe this means that the entity moves in discrete steps (becuase of the 10Hz think function) and not that they actually walk on the ground. 
Heh. 
makes sense, i guess. i just assumed it was walking, because there was movetype_fly as well. ;) 
Interesting Hull Talk 
aguiRe - Interesting explanation of Hulls. I learned something. I wonder if my map troubles are related to these offset surfaces. I can just imagine what Hull 1 and 2 look like on my trusses. Bleh...

BTW, I'm vising my slightly improved map. It still sucks. I'm working on the 2nd map and letting your vis program take all my PC's spare time.

I also used the light parameters (light -extra -soft -light 20 -sunlight 150 -sunmangle 225,-30 -sunlight2 40 e2m1a). It does make the map look nicer and more natural. The only drawback is that I lose some cool looking shadows (such as the lifting truss shadow against the rockface) but I think I'm inclined to go with your soft shadows anyway if this thing ever gets done. 
Maybe A Shader Question 
What do I need to do in Quake 3 so that arcitecture won't show up behind skybox brushes. There's a small part of an adjacent roof you can see through the sky in one of my maps, which is culled from some angles but not others and looks generally weird. 
Err 
Well if the surfaces you're seeing aren't ever visible by the player, you could caulk them. Otherwise, there's not much you can do.

I don't know how it works technically, but basically the skybox is drawn behind everything in the visibility table. So if VIS does not block Room A from being viewed in Room B, trying to hide Room A with a skybox won't work. This problem was evident in Quake 2 as well (load base1 and noclip to the top of the outside room; you'll be able to see the inside parts of adjacent rooms through the skybox).

The only real thing you can do is use areaportals and hint brushes to optimize VIS, or change the architecture so there's nothing to see behind the skybox (which is not what you want, surely).

I hope that made sense. If not, I defer to metlslime. 
Pushplay: 
solution: build spatially coherent maps.

if there's a room up there, wouldn't you see the outside of the building? So build that. 
Hmmmm 
Well it's just a small corner that you see. Technically you should be able to see something but it doesn't 'feel' like you should be able to. I could build an outside and make it look intersting. That would mean sealing some of the rooms in a box, isn't that what everyone makes fun of? 
If It's Just A Corner... 
try simply raising the brushes a little to block it, or adding new ones to build it up a little. 
Pushplay: 
There is a hint trick you can do that can sometimes fix that. Spog did a hint example map which you should be able to find somewhere that shows how. Its a matter of tricking vis to think that the area behind the sky can't be seen. 
Glassman 
That would be perfect, thanks. I couldn't find it with google but I'll bother spog about it when I see him. 
Pushplay 
you can d/l the map files here
www.glassman.mistral.co.uk/spog_hints.zip 
Hmm 
.../spog_hints.zip 
Clickable! 
http://www.glassman.mistral.co.uk/spog_hints.zip

needs the http:// to be made a link 
There Is Such A Pack! 
Spog said there wasn't. He gave me a very nice explanation about hint brushes though. 
Bsp2prt Utility 
Does anyone know if the source code is available somewhere? 
That Stunning Allocate_hunc Error 
Quake1 map, which had a big content.(1.7Mb)
I have changed the textures count to its limits.
Than deleted several brushes.
Now I have a map of 1426kb, but it gets stuck!

Don't know what it is, under DOS there is no problem. But this Win98 won't play my map.

Is there a solution? possible? 
Hunk_Alloc: Failed 
You may need to allocate more memory for the engine by adding the command line option "-winmem 16" (DOSQuake) or "-heapsize 32768" (all other engines). 
Thanks 
Didn't knew one could make the string longer.
Now it works with
quake.exe -winmem 16 -game aband +map start

Great! 
Editor Window 
In the 3d section of worldcraft a texture that Ive place on an angle appears straight but when the map is loaded its turned back in the other direction, however if I change it so it looks wrong in wc it actually looks right in game, is there anyway around this or do I just put up with it?

Also I have this concrete section where it uses a tex called divider1b on the top then a seperate brush using divider tex on it but when in game it uses divider1b over both brush (they are touching if that makes a difference). 
Editor Widow 
Your qbsp prog should have a command line switch like -useoldaxis, -alternateaxis or something similar. Check the readme.
Using this switch when compiling should fix the problem. 
Oh, You Had Two Questions... 
Answer to second one:

This is a bug in WorldCraft.
If you've got a texture called divider, and another one called divider1b, if you apply the divider1b texture first, and then try to apply the divider texture, WC won't properly overwrite the string that stores the texture name, so it still reads the texture as divider1b.

A hack way to overcome this problem is to first change the texture into something completely different, (like wizmet1_2,) and then applying the divider texture.

The proper way to solve it, (besides haxx0ring WC or using GTKR instead,) is to rename the divider texture in the wad so it's named dividera1</y> or something like that.

You should make sure that there are no texture names in your wads that are such that you get another valid texture name if you append some more letters to it.
 
Right, No Underline 
dividera1 then... 
Eh? 
dividera1 
Bah. 
Just checking since you closed the tags wrong. 
You Could Also Have RTFM 
http://www.celephais.net/board/site.php
Though, I didn't do that either, so I guess you're clear. 
Help 
Working on a map with terrain. I used vertex manipulation, and there were no errors, according to "check for problems".

However, when i compiled, i got a large amount of brush with duplicate plane errors, and when i play the map there are rocks where there are not supposed to be rocks.

Is there an easy way to fix this error? 
Can Only Guess... 
Importing the .map file back into your editor will show up the dodgy brushes & you can fix them.

I'm guessing you're using WC... the 'check for problems' is normally only useful for missing textures, mismatched targets or unrecognised entities etc. 
ANSWER QUICK! 
I would like to know for sure if qbsp for q1 starts the same way as q3map does, with splitting the map along each, uh, axial plane before splitting by the rest of the geometry. 
MapSpy 
I think MapSpy will help you track down and/or fix duplicate planes. Also, QERadiant has a plugin that fixes duplicate planes. Very handy. 
Duplicate Planes 
I get that error message too. I don't notice problems in the map though. It is annoying though and I wish I knew what caused it. I don't do booleans. I use the clip tool occasionally and I use vertex manipulation and face splitting a fair bit.

I have another error that won't do away. Using Check for Problems I get this: Solid Entity (func_door) is empty. Go to Error shows nothing and the Fix Problem doesn't remove it either.

But both these issues aren't stopping me from moving on. Just curious. 
Great To Download The Cube Engine 
but how do I turn vieuw? 
How To Turn Vieuw? 
Uses mouse. 
Scraggy... 
Ya, it's a phantom door that appears after some operations in Worldcraft.

If you get the error message, hit "go to error", the 0,0,0 point should now be centered, place your cursor over the origin point... if it goes red it means at some stage you've generated a phantom door as big as the grid. Hit delete. No more problem. 
Hm... 
in gtkradiant, after manipulation vertices alot, sometimes, i will re make a flat face (which had been split up into two triangles, intead of a square) but gtkr won't recombine the two triangles itself. what i have to do it move the brush a bit, then gtkr gets rid of it. maybe that's what a duplicate plane is? 
Q2 
Does anyone have the Q2 wad, or know of a working link online? 
Q1 Tool Tips 
I've put together a simple document that might help Q1 mappers or players when they have problems with the build tools or engine.

It's available at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/tooltips.txt .

Any comments are welcome. 
Does My Bsp Has The Flu? 
well, this is new to me.
the txbsp compiler tells me:

healing degenerate

or do my healthpacks get hostile?

& thanx for the error message document. 
If That Warning 
is all you get while compiling your maps, consider yourself lucky ...

It's a non-critical warning and can be safely ignored. I've added it to my ToolTips in the next version. 
Thank You Bengt! 
This info is very useful. The MAP_CLIPNODES limit error where there is no leak can usually be solved ( as czg pointed out) by adding large clip brushes to areas that no one is ever going to go, rather than changing architecture. 
I'm Glad You Like It 
I've now updated it to v0.02 with more info including the clipbrush tip. 
Bengt 
You rock! Thanks! 
Duplicate Planes, A Personal Theory 
I notice that this error usually occurs on brushes that I have manipulated individual vertices on. Is it possible that when this happens, it is because the vertex manipulation creates two seperate areas on the same brush that lie on the same plane and thus the space between the brushes is concaved and the engine or compiler cant split this brush into acceptable triagulated data? 
Er 
that should be, 'the space between the planes' 
Lightning 
Hello everyone, I am currently working on my 6th map and I need a little help. Can anyone here advise me step by step on how to create a trigger lightning? The way I plan on making it is when u hit a button and the lightning shoots out (like a trap).

Thank you for your help :) 
Fire Reign 
Have you tried this? http://www.planetquake.com/worldcraft/entity/standard/std2.shtm#1

If not, try it. That's probably described about as well as I can do it. 
Distrans! 
Your fix worked!

Give me a new contact when you can. I've got a beta almost thru vis. I can't wait to finish it and seal it in the can. 2nd map is progressing. 
My Pleasure Friend... 
I'm back at work, yaaaay!

I'm sending the e3m1 wad to Leviathan tomorrow, along with the progress bsps for start, e1m1 and e3m2, so I'll CC: you into the mail 
Maping Standards Q1 
Quake gamers have the same problem, mapping standards. New types of map items added have no real standards in spq or dm levels. So, you can get these maps/mods combos from said designer with some cool goodies, but unusable with your favorate mods, q1/q2 mission pack, Killer quake pack, Ultimate weapons mod, just to name a few. Since, they have some special weapons, items, monsters, etc that makes them unplayable with anything but the mod that comes with the level. So, you just play the level/mod combo in god mode for some good action and eye candy. Or for that matter, as a level made for specific mod and can't be used for any other mod.

At the other end, you have the vanilla quake level with no special goodies that work with all mods. We all love these levels, but having the goodies like flamethrower and freezethrower as ground pickups are just plain fun.

With mapping standards between mod makers and mappers, you could have the middle ground. So, I'v decided to make up a list of standard map items i'm aware of. It will list the title and description of what they do and maybe damage level. For now, here some first thoughts:
weapon_flamethrower
weapon_plasma_cannon
weapon_freezethrower
weapon_gatlinggun
item_rune
random_rune(dm)
random_powerup(dm)
proximity_mine(dm)
plasma_mine(dm)
Also, I found something called "cut scene construction kit" out of an old mod as another possible standard. Give it some thought for a while. I'll post the URL at a later date, maybe a cross post at quake stanards.

as


as 
If You've Had Problems 
using the old bsp2prt utility, I've now added that functionality to my BspInfo utility. It has large capacity and generates a more accurate .prt file with fewer leafs/portals which helps vis.

I think I've also found the cause of the elusive CutNodePortals_r: New portal was clipped away warning in qbsp and added coordinates to help finding the problem spot. It seems to be the same cause as many other qbsp-related problems; tiny brush misalignments.

You'll find the updated tool versions at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k
Hmm 
i've got some prob
i'm making map in gtkradiant, and when i compile it with q3map2 it finds phantom leak (tho, the map has no any holes, i'm sure).
but, q1 compilers after convertiong map to q1 format, compile it with no probs.
anyone know any workarounds for that?
maybe some util that will process .map file for error brushes or something? some kind of .map file refresh utility? 
Hmmmm 
maybe that bengt's new qbsp might help, because i started to get 3 cutnodeportals errors in a row.... 
Vondur 
Does the portal file get created & vis run in q3map2? If so I wouldn't worry too much about it - the bsp part of q3map2 always seems to report leaks to phantom entities in my maps but it doesn't stop it from vising & working ok.

I presume you've tried to load the pointfile into gtkr. 
AguirRe Question 
How hard would it be to add dubsp type
functionality to your bsp progs?
(ie compile HL/Hammer maps for Q1)
How much of a difference is there between
HL .map and Q1 .map formats? 
Glassman 
yeah, q3map2 vises and lights map fine.
i think it's some q3map b0rkage or something indeed. good thing that q1 compilers eat this .map fine, this is what important :)
i just worry a bit about that phantom leak, but seems like i shouldn't. 
AguirRe 
well, i was trying to fix that cutnodeportals thingy using coords that qbsp printed. well, it pointed to some spot in the void. no misaligned brushes nearby... there are some edge manipulated brushes tho, but they're all aligned to the grid properly... when i edited some nearby brushes, reported spot coordinates moved slightly, but still coords are in the void... 
Vondur 
CutNodePortals warnings can be pretty tricky to fix, especially if they're in hulls 1/2. I assume that this is your case and that's why you get coordinates that are not near any edges/vertices.

If you remember my ramblings about the expanded brushes, you'll have to visualize this expansion and try to imagine where the brush junctions might be then and then track back to which real brush it might be.

I've done this extensivley for a couple of days and it can be rather time-consuming to track down the CutNodePortals warnings for hulls 1/2, but so far I've managed to fix them.

It should be noted that AFAIK, they're still non-critical warnings; you probably don't have to fix them. They might be regarded as potential problem spots.

If you need more help, send me the zipped map+wad and I'll see what I can do. 
[Jimbo] 
I've thought about this myself, I have the source for DuBSP so it's more of a decision whether I want to add and maintain this functionality in my versions.

IIRC there were a number of issues to consider regarding map file format, wads and even an extra crouching hull(?). There is also the problem with testing; I don't have or use Hammer myself.

I dismissed the idea then, I might take a look into it again as I see there are a number of Hammer mappers. No promises though ...

Then there's the question if Riot's going to maintain DuBSP or he's through with it. Maybe he could answer that. 
Hm... 
wouldn't it be easier to make a seperate program to simply convert hl maps to q1 map format like sleepwalkR's mapconv.exe does for q3/q2 to q1? that way you don't have to worry about any of the ducking hulls and such, it seems more straight forward that way...
mind you, i really don't know anything about that... :P 
Aguirre 
yeah, i generally ignore this warning. i just thought that maybe for some reason these tiny brush misalignments can cause q3map2 generate phantom leak. so i hoped that by fixing this warning q3map2 will start compiling my map w/o errors. but as glassman said, i can ignore and that q3map's phantom leaks too. well, for me qbsp output is much more important of course, so while everything is ok there, there's no need to worry much ;) 
Necros 
That's a good idea. I've already in my ConvMap utility the ability to convert Q2 map format into Q1 (similar to mapconv).

There's an additional problem here though. Hammer (like QuArK) can probably generate more variants of texture positioning than the standard Q1 map format can handle.

This means that either there still needs to be changes in the compilers to accommodate a new format or the conversion must go via the QuArK ETP format.

Any suggestions are welcome. 
Vondur 
Can you please confirm which hull the warning appeared in? 
I Need Hammer Source Maps 
and corresponding wads (zipped, please) to test a quick fix I've just made for my compilers. It looks promising on the few Hammer maps I have.

At this time, it only enables my compilers to interpret the Hammer map files (with its native texture definitions), wads must manually be converted into WAD2s using e.g. TexMex and there's no support for extra hulls or other frills. I hope this is not a big problem.

Since [Jimbo] and MisYu have showed interest in this issue, maybe you could send me some test material? 
AguirRe 
here goes the paste from qbsp output:

---- MakeFaceEdges ----
----+----+
---- GrowRegions ----
Processing hull 1...
----+----+
----+----+
Processing hull 2...
----+----+
----+----+
*** WARNING 12: New portal was clipped away in CutNodePortals_r near (428 2400 -800)
---- WriteBSPFile ---- 
It's In Hull 2 
as I hoped, that's why it's more difficult to fix. My usual method is to look in the nearby area for brushes with non-axial planes and delete them and rebuild to see when the warning disappears (or changes). As I said, it can be quite time-consuming ...

Thanks for the info. 
Aguirre 
the prob is, the whole map is built mostly with brushes with non-axial planes ;)
anyway, i'll ignore this warning 
AguirRe 
I emailed you a link to a zipped rmf map and
wad.
Let me know if the link works. 
Got It 
Please don't include the rmf files as I can't open them anyway (I don't have Hammer). 
Heh, 
vondur, you don't need to worry at all about that. call me sloppy, but on average per map, i get about 2 dozen of those warnings... :P 
Yes 
RPG100B1 had at least one, and maybe two cutnodeportals warnings. 
Strange Bug 
I found a strange effect/bug.
I launched quake, then started e2m5 map, after that I started my sm57_pulsar_se map, and I saw that one texture was replaced by another one through all the map. I restarted quake and this effect dissapeared.
But now I know, every time I start e1m5 before sm57_pulsar_se one texture changes.

Anyone knows why? 
I Think... 
..it's because one of the textures in your map shares the same name with one in e2m5. It's a bug in standard GLQuake, is that what you're using?

The one in e2m5 has the same name so GLQ thinks it's the same one and doesn't reload it; just loads the old one from its cache. 
Its Not A Bug 
its a "feature" 
Yeah! 
it gives replay value! never play the same level twice! 
Necros 
the only reason i started worrying was inability of q3map2 to compile the map properly. but ppl explained me that i shouldn't worry about that :) 
Pulsar 
yeah, what xen said.
use fitzquake, it has this bug removed.
http://celephais.net/fitzquake/files/fitzquake075.zip 
Thanx 
I used glquake, simply it's the first time I saw this bug. Thanx for info.
vondur: I already have fitzquake, but it doesn't work with my videocard (voodoo2 12 mb) 
JellyFish Orb? 
I just downloaded FizQuake, and it works great!
Then I tried it on my own convertion, in which I have changed the Enforcer for a selfmade Orb.
And although it works good in normal Quake, I found my Orb back as a shapeless jellyfish in FizQuake.
I have seen this before with MercBabe, which I had converted from Malice.

Whatever happened to the texture shape? 
Actually 
i found that most every engine except standard glQuake displayed the malice models incorrectly, when running the TC itself. 
Er... 
does fitzquake mesh the models? maybe that's why? 
MadFox 
Take a look at my Q1 ToolTips (section Engine Problems) http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k
Meshing Models... 
fitzquake meshes models the same way glquake does. In both cases, there is a danger of the mesh being mismatched to the mdl (becuase of a model replacement in a mod.) I eventually plan on dealing with this problem. 
Well, The Easiet Solution 
is of course, to make fitzquake remesh the models everytime it loads. it doesn't take very long to do, so most people won't even notice it. 
Vondur 
If you're still worried about your phantom q3map2 leak (post #1007) there's a thread on q3w that might relate.
http://www.quake3world.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/027282.html?
Suggests upgrading to v2.5.12. 
Too Many EFRAGS 
I heard it said that this could be caused by improper placement of torches (or flames) partially within brushes. Are there other potential causes of this error as well? Does the flame model problem sound correct? I'd like to get rid of this error message as my map is approaching completion. 
Scragbait 
For a quick explanation, take a look in my Q1 ToolTips, Engine Problems section.

For more details, check out post #729 in this thread. 
AguiRe 
I sent you an email regarding E2M1a - it's fully vised! Your myrealbox didn't work. The mail I sent had no attachments but a CnP of the vis log. If you have a working address, I can forward it there. 
Glassman 
well, i tried 2.5.12, still no luck. entity still leaks. well, fek it cuz the map vises and lights properly. and it compiles fine in q1 compilers, this is what's important isn't it? :)
thanks for the help though! 
Re: #1043 
/me frantically opens Outlook 
Scragbait 
Hopefully, you've got mail. 
Oh For Heaven's Sake... 
So I've got WC3.3 and I want to map for Q1 but with n33t stuff like radiosity and texture-based lighting. Can someone explain all this new-fangled mumbo-jumbo to me or point me at a FAQ or something?

Cheers 
AguiRe 
No mail.

Distrans and Lev - I just sent the zip. Hope it reaches you guys.

Sorry readers for off-line discussion. 
Weird 
I've just re-sent it, I hope you'll get it now. I can't see how my MyRealBox account could prevent me from reaching you, though. Both my account seem to be working. And I don't get any rejects sending the email to you.

You haven't changed email address lately? 
LTH 
http://www.orbiter-productions.com/alchemy/

that site has pretty much all you need for editing in Hammer... giving you the option of radiosity, surface lighting, coloured radiosity and surface lighting and more :) 
Bah 
Cheers Starbuck. Blah, I already have all of that setup, I was hoping there was a more elegant solution. 
LTH, Im Good At Elegant Solutions :) 
but i dont map :/

Tigger-On, Necros [and lots of others]...seem pretty clued up. im sure someone here will be able to help soon.....or else email some guys individually. 
Um... 
there's the site by riot i think, with the q1rad program. he does a good job of explaining how the radiosity works there, i believe... 
Hammer Support 
(Valve 220 format) is now available at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k .

Any comments are welcome. 
Ah Sweet 
you'll still need riot's wadconv utility from the site I linked though. Looks like there no longer is any reason not to use aguirRe's bsp and vis. 
He'p Meh! 
Just a quicky. Does anyone have the .map of start.bsp? If so can they please mail it to me. Thanks. morfans@planetquake.com

If not I'll try converting it... :-) 
You Could Try Decompiling It 
Scragbait 
Is your email down or are you just busy? I've sent you four emails the last couple of days without any response. 
MIRC Problem 
OK, can't connect to gamesnet, saw that there was a message about moving to gamesurge or something. Will that be up soon cuz I don't have it on my server list, and if it's already up how do I access that server so I can speedmap ? :O 
IRC 
GamesNET has effectively moved/renamed to GamesUrge. More details: http://www.gamesurge.net/

The new irc server is irc.gamesurge.net . Your IRC client (mIRC) should have an option for adding a new server. 
Gamesurge 
ActiveGamer.OH.US.GameSurge.net 6667 (Columbus, OH)
Extremity.CA.US.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Fremont, CA )
GameWarriors.NJ.US.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Matawn, NJ )
Geneva.CH.EU.GameSurge.net 6667 (Geneva, Switzerland)
Lausanne.CH.EU.GameSurge.net 6667 (Lausanne, Switzerland )
Netfire.TX.US.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Dallas, TX )
NuclearFallout.CA.US.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Los Angeles, CA)
Oktagone.WA.AU.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Perth, Western Australia)
Osgamers.TX.US.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Dallas, TX)
Prothid.CA.US.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Los Angeles, CA)
RedPhive.BC.CA.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Vancouver, BC)
Slim.NY.US.GameSurge.Net 6667 (New York, NY )
Tukikohta.FI.EU.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Tampere, Finland)
Vigilance.CA.US.GameSurge.net 6660,6667,7000 (Sacramento, CA) 
Shambler Blinded My Pak-file 
While adding my maps to a PAK-file, it suddenly
appears all the light has gone out in one of my maps.
Strange because apart of it there is normal light.

Does anyone knows why Shambler has grasped all the light out of the pak-file??? 
Yeah Shambler 
You big fat northern bully, give him his lights back. 
Editor Help... 
is there anyway to select all coplanar faces in gtkradiant without doing it manually? 
No 
afaik

but with the newest 1.5 you can select multiple faces, but there are some limitations 
I Don't Understand. 
you already can select multiple faces with 1.3.12 (what i'm using currently) and have been able to since i started using gtkr...

also, i wanted to know if any who has been using the new 1.4.whatever thought it was worth to upgrade to it...
is the wierdness with the face texture tool still there? 
Also, 
when i map in gtkr, i like using the "common" textures, those are set up to be transparent and are very nice and clean and obvious.
i'm talking about the clip and trigger textures for q3 btw... however, i don't include the textures in my wad since you can't see these brushes anyway.

my question is, besides saying at startup that there are missing textures, are there any other ill effects? 
Necros 
Some of the engines will freak out. Just include a dummy texture with the apropriate name. 
Which Engines? 
nt 
Necros 
Its nice to be as efficient as possible (and so I can see why you'd want to exclude textures that aren't displayed from your wad file) but really... when you're talking about only a few kilobytes per texture of wasted space...

I'd rather put those textures in the wad file than make users put up with annoying error messages at runtime, and possibly cause unforseen weirdness or errors in other engines.

Have some fun with it and make your own clip/trigger textures, if nothing else you might give someone a laugh when they open up the BSP in texmex to view the textures.

By the way, its easy to set up a simple shader for your own clip/trigger textures (or any other textures for that matter) and make them semi-transparent or whatever (I like to do this with my water textures in gtkr). 
 
/me remembers Frib's nudie tex's. 
Necros 
i meant multiple face selecton with one mousedrag, not by clicking on each face. 
Frib: i suppose... i guess i'll do it... clip and triggers textures don't have to be 64x64 anyway, so i'll prolly just stick in some 4x4s or something...

Vondur: i see. that sounds rather usefull too! 
QuArK Try... 
I've made a try yesterday evening with QuArK 6.4.0.. It's a very great software, very usefull to import BSP, MAP, WAD files, etc.. ... and to create these one also... (I made a little try with the default starting map, and a test using some differents brushes..)
I also try to import a BSP file, but a warning appears during the importation.. there was some missing WAD texture into my library..
So, is there a turnaround to avoid this problem and obtain the full WAD texture file from the imported BSP map ??? Or do I need to create myself the missing brushes and add them into my WAD texture files ??? 
Err 
clip and triggers textures don't have to be 64x64 anyway, so i'll prolly just stick in some 4x4s or something

I thought normal GLQuake would give a cache mismatch error or something when it tries to load a texture that is a different size but has the same name of a texture it already has loaded? 
BSP Extraction Warning 
So, if I make some modifications into a BSP extracted map, with such warnings, without re-brush the failing part, does the re-build BSP file will be OK or not ?? 
 
What you say?? 
Yes, Rpg 
but only if there was a map loaded before it.

...ack! i think i'll just stick to not including the textures and being an asshole!!! argh! 
Or... 
Maybe you should just include the textures like everyone else??

I just did a test, and when I added a new 64x64 texture to a map, the .bsp size went up by 5.47 kilobytes (5604 bytes). So for both a clip and trigger texture, you would be saving less than 11kb. I don't think that will have much impact on in-game performance, especially since you're already designing maps with four digit r_speeds. And you're only saving about two seconds of download time for a modem user. Honestly, why go through the hassle of removing the textures and risk having some engines crash when it's having such little impact in the first place? I can assure you that if the increased performance and smaller filesize had a big impact that id Software would have done it on the original maps. 
FINE!!!@!@!$@4253 
i hope your happy. i'm going to pout for the rest of the day!






... :P 
Mission Accomplished 
Today's todo list:

* Wank. (check)
* Piss off necros. (check)
* Build this room in QERadiant.
* Tell necros that "your" is not the proper contraction of "you are."
* Wank again.

2/5 so far for today. 
Bitches! 
� 
So You've Wanked 
twice already?




(should have caught that before... :P) 
Oh... 
wait...

gah... it's too early... ugh 
AguirRe 
so as i got there is no antilight in your light util, right? 
Vondur 
No coloured lighting or antilights planned ATM. 
AguirRe 
will the antilights support be planned any time later? 
Heh 
Or do you atleast plan to plan to plan on antlights? 
Antilights 
Antilights are pretty useful sometimes, it'd be nice to have them in your light tool someday, aguirRe... its one of the few things I miss when I use your light tool (other than radiosity, hah).

While things like radiosity might not be feasible, antilights are hopefully possible, I hope you'll consider considering planning to plan to add it later :D 
Hmmm 
this is gonna seem strange, but is it possible to map for halflife from gtkradiant?

ie: is there a converter to convert an quake map into an hl map? 
Necros 
there's official hl support for gtkradiant

as for the converting i'm not sure 
Antilights 
yes, they're very useful especially when u use ambient light, and you wanna make id style arch exit leading into the blackness. it's impossible ot make this blackness with ambient light enabled and with no antilights :) i met this problem now, so i'm puzzled how to solve it... 
Yes... 
i've done HL mapping with gtkradiant. It basically works. 
Heh 
awesome, got the editor set up for it... now, can someone point me towards good hl compilers? 
Necros 
Hellllp? 
Can anyone help me solve this? Last night I tried to replay after a long time 2 mapping masterpieces such as Insomnia and Contract Revoked... both of them made quake crash as soon as I entered the final slipgate to get to the 1st map.... I run MhQuake on a 700 Mhz Amd with 256 mgRam and a Geforce2mx on Windows 2000... When MhQuake Loads up, usually gives these messages (they do not harm gameplay, though, or so it seems....):
unknown command "gl_flashblend"
unknown command "r_maxsurfs"
unknown command "r_maxedges"

Anyone got a clue? Thanx... 
... 
that's because r_maxsurfs and maxedges are for software only (czg put those in so that it would work for both)
and gl_flashblend was probably removed from mhquake (it's that orange sphere that replaces the dynamic light. most people like it off, with the regular dynamic light instead, and it looks like czg put that in there to turn it off by default. 
Q1 Map Tools For Radiant? 
Ive seen links to these on peekaboom's site and on several PQ LOTW pages but all are dead. Id really like to get ahold of these tools so I can use one editor for all my quake mapping needs. :)

Thanks! FaT. 
Basic Antilight Support 
is in testing phase and can hopefully be included in the next Light release. So far it looks good.

It doesn't support all variants that TyrLite does, but I hope it's sufficient. There's no anti-sunlight and it behaves like the TyrLite -nominlimit option is always enabled. 
Great! 
looking forward for the release of the next version of your Light tool 
Q2 Mapping 
First of, thanks to Scampie for telling me about this board - a safe warm place indeed. :) Anyway, I'd like to do some Q2 mapping but have a question and a request before I can start moving the brushes around:

Question: which editor should I use? Unless Worldcraft supports some stuff Queradinat/GTKRadiant doesn't, I'd like to stay with one of the former ones since I used GTKRad when I was playing around with RTCW. Which one of them is more suitable for Q2? GTKRadiant is supposed to be recommended, but it crashed on me only after loading the textures... Is Queradiant more stable?

Request: The best way to learn mapping is IMHO with checking other people's work. Scampie sadly doesn't have sources of his Q2 maps available on his site nor are there any Q2 sources at LvL Open Source, so I'm asking if there are any other sites I should check or even if there is anyone out there willing to share his/her work with me?

Thank you. 
Q2 Editors 
I suggest QERadiant. It's what I use. If you can get GTKRadiant to work with Q2, then use that. 
Q2 Map Sources 
I just remembered that SleepwalkR has released the source for two of his Q2DM maps. Click on "Projects."
http://rem.fov120.com/ 
GTKRadiant... 
Has a build specifically for quake2, I just finished downloading it from radiant's website. 
I Love Google! 
It hit me like a thunderbolt as soon as I saw SleepwalkR's name above I knew it was he that peekaboom had mentioned on his website. Alas the links on the site are not working but a google search turned up files on source forge. woohoo! I feel like Homer Simpson after eating a dozen doughnuts. Mmmm...Doughnuts...

Thanks! FaT. 
Thanx A Lot Necros.... 
... you've been very kind... But, does anyone know why Quake crashes when I enter the slipgates? I just can't seem to begin the maps.... 
I Have No Idea... 
but try this.
when you get to then end of czg07a, instead of going through the teleporter, type in the console: "changelevel czg07b" and see if that crashes quake. (it will have the same effect as going through the endlevel trigger, but you won't see your stats.) 
Wierd Bug In Fitzquake... 
running fitzquake in 1024x768, with gl_clear 1
when i load my map there is nothing.
it's completly gray. i can still move around, and the world is there (i can hear my self pushing buttons and monsters firing at me) but i just can't see anything. turning off gl_clear gives hom.

i understand that the map is unvised and pretty big with lots of wpoly (12000 in one area) but i was able to load the map in tyrann's glquake. is there a max wpoly limit in fq or something? :P

vising the map did fix the fq problem... i'm still confused why one engine was able to load it while the other wasn't...

i also noticed a fairly significant decrease in frame render time in fq as opposed to tyrglquake... fq was doing the same 5000 wpoly scene at around 14ms whilst tyrglquake did the same scene at around 25ms.
what's with that big discrepancy? is it even larger on slower machines?

whatever you did to fitzquake, metlslime, i like it! 
Necros: 
please mail me an unvised (and zipped) version of that bsp; i'd like to check out the bug you mention.

As for why it runs faster on high-poly scenes, this has to do with me rewriting the renderer last version. I'm glad to hear that it worked. 
You've Got Mail, Metl 
� 
Metlslime 
In some maps I get a peculiar FQ message "Backup past 0" when moving in certain areas, what does it mean? 
I've Always Took It As An Article Of Faith 
that QuakeI doesn't support multitextures on single brushes. Never thought it to be a big deal nor necessary though UnReal based games do (Dues Ex, yummmm) support it. And then, just a moment ago I was fiddling around with a decompiled version of Mr Elusive's Start map for Tale of Abbot's Rune, trying to figure out how he set up those staged combats, and I stumble upon this,

{ //brush 2
( -832 8192 8192 ) ( -832 -8192 8192 ) ( -832 8192 -8192 ) sky4 0 -32 0 1 1
( -808 -8192 8192 ) ( -808 8192 8192 ) ( -808 8192 -8192 ) sky4 -40 -32 180 1 1
( 8192 928 8192 ) ( -8192 928 8192 ) ( -8192 928 -8192 ) sky4 -40 -32 0 1 1
( 8192 -8192 32 ) ( 8192 8192 32 ) ( -8192 -8192 32 ) sky4 -40 0 0 1 1
( 8192 8192 64 ) ( 8192 -8192 64 ) ( -8192 -8192 64 ) sky4 -40 0 0 1 1
( -7406 3522 8192 ) ( 7703 -2813 8192 ) ( -7406 3522 -8192 ) sky4 -40 -32 0 1 1
( -4340 7059 8108 ) ( 2034 -8033 8108 ) ( -2856 7686 -8196 ) rock5_2 0 -32 0 1 1
}

And my faith in the sigularity of Quake surfacing is shattered into a million atoms.

I tested this out with an attempt of my own.

// brush 6
{
( 64 256 0 ) ( 64 240 0 ) ( 64 240 -48 ) wiz1_2 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 128 256 0 ) ( 64 256 0 ) ( 64 256 -48 ) wiz1_1 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 128 240 0 ) ( 128 256 0 ) ( 128 256 -48 ) wiz1_2 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 64 192 0 ) ( 128 192 0 ) ( 128 192 -48 ) wiz1_1 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 64 240 0 ) ( 64 256 0 ) ( 128 256 0 ) wiz1_2 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 128 256 -48 ) ( 64 256 -48 ) ( 64 240 -48 ) wiz1_1 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
}
// brush 7
{
( -64 64 0 ) ( -64 0 0 ) ( -64 0 -48 ) wizmet1_2 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 0 64 0 ) ( -64 64 0 ) ( -64 64 -48 ) wizmet1_1 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 0 0 0 ) ( 0 64 0 ) ( 0 64 -48 ) wizmet1_2 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( -64 0 0 ) ( 0 0 0 ) ( 0 0 -48 ) wizmet1_1 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( -64 0 0 ) ( -64 64 0 ) ( 0 64 0 ) wizmet1_2 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 0 64 -48 ) ( -64 64 -48 ) ( -64 0 -48 ) wizmet1_1 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
}
}
And the compiled version did as I expected, no surface textures for the offending sides. So I have come to one canonical conclusion. If you are Mr Elusive, the rule do not apply. 
Okay, I Think I Have It Figured Out 
The decompilation is a faithful reproduction of the QBSP file (I use the Q3 BSPC-GUI for Windows 95/NT which never adds much glut when I decompile my own maps) and not of the map. So the liberties taken are in the compilation process. Whew, my faith is restored unless someone has more to add, 
Map Files 
don't look nice in msgboard format ...

Anyway, having different textures on a brush is absolutely no problem for Q1. As long as they're of the same type (solid/sky/liquid), they won't disappear or otherwise act strangely.

However, if they're of different type (like your example above with sky4 and rock5_2), you might get weird behaviour in the engine. This is probably a bspc (the decompiler) bug that normally needs to be fixed manually.

If you check out my ConvMap tool, you'll find a fixup mode that will help compensating for this bug. 
Thanks AguiRe 
Good to know and I'll definitely check your tools out. Could the problem with my own attempt be the result of keeping the Q3 .500000 scaling? Perhaps, this is why I have had this misconception for some time. 
 
However, if they're of different type (like your example above with sky4 and rock5_2), you might get weird behaviour in the engine.

I had a map where I used a lot of brushes with solid and sky textures on them. There wasn't any problem with engine (even with dosquake). Only rockets couldn't pass through such sky textures, they acted like solid textures.

I hope you understand what I tried to explain :) 
There's A Way 
to get a liquid brush with solid textures... i'm not quite sure how to do it, but i think as long as the last texture on the brush in the .map file is a liquid, the bsp program will treat it as a liquid of that type.

i was experimenting with this in my most recent map, and i might go for it with an animated texture. the only downside (but this could also be a plus) is that the unliquid textures of the liquid brush are not fullbright, so you need to light them as normal. 
I Think That Helps 
I always knew it was possible in Q2 (with the edition of the surface inspector) and Q3, but I assumed the problems I've run into with Q1 multisurfacing was inherent in the engine. 
Q2 Mapping 
@R.P.G. & FaTbOy!: thank you for your feedback. It looks like the latest version of GTKRad-classic hates my system - I tried with version 1.3.13 and it seems to be working well. I've also mailed SleepwalkR and hopefully he'll fix the links, because id's base1 source isn't exactly what I was expecting in terms of build quality. Or am I missing something?

1. Is it worthless to clip brushes that are sticking out of playable area? I mean, doesn't this have a bad effect on performance?

2. I heard sky texture can be used in similar way as caulk in Quake 3. Is this true?

3. Should I care about aligning brushes so they fit perfectly like one should do when making Q3 maps? Is there any big difference between Q2 and Q3-mapping in this aspect?

4. Are there any differences between Q2's and Q3's hint brushes? 
Trivial Mapping Tip That Could Be Helpful: 
anyone who watched the demo i recorded of xen's latest speedmap will see i had a lot of trouble getting onto the one func_plat in his map.

the way quake works for the func_plat, is it takes the largest coordinates of the brush and makes a cubic trigger roughly the same size of those coordinates. the reason i had trouble getting onto the plat was because the trigger is square while the brush itself was a triangle, thus, the plat was getting triggered too early before i could get onto the plat.

if you plan to do something like that, you should instead use a func_door and make the trigger yourself so you can control the size of it manually. or make a square lift.

cheers!

this small bit of info brought to you by necros... 
Pokec: 
1. Clip brushes have no effect on proformance, they only serve to smooth out areas that may be rough navigating.

2. I suppose it could be... but I'd think it'd be better to use some standard textures and apply 'solid' content and 'nodraw' surface properties.

3. You should always align brushes neatly, yes. This applys for all Quake engines, there is very little differance between them in terms of how your brushes are split up in BSP.

4. There's a few differances I believe, http://test.gamedesign.net/book/view/52 shows their use in Q2.


and no, you're not missing anything looking at id's q1 released sources... they really are that bad of mappers... :D 
AguirRe: 
Looking at the source, that's coming from the function that does line traces through bsps. The comment nearby says "shouldn't really happen, but does occasionally." It's also a dprint.

From my quick glance at the code it appears to mean that a trace impacted a wall just behind the start of the trace. In other words, the distance to impact was slightly negative. 
Thanks For The 
info, it usually happens in areas with complex brush shapes.

Another question: If I noclip through a map, why does sometimes something push me up very high as if there was a trigger_push (there isn't)? It's repeatable and very annoying if I try to inspect an area of the map.

It's happened in several engines and it's really weird. 
Necros: 
Ahh.. thanks for the tip :)

Thought I could solve it by sticking the button there but it didn't work.. ah well

aguire I've noticed that too.. usually happens above lava, or at least liquids, i've found 
Aguire: 
I think that's quake's "jump up out of liquids" code giving you a bump. But, since there's no gravity, you'll coast upwards forever. 
I Haven't Seen 
that connection with liquids, but next time I'll look for nearby liquid. My suspicion was that it had something to do with odd-angled brushes (or rather, planes), it think I recall it happening just outside tunnels (in the void).

It also doesn't push forever, it just keeps pushing until it thinks I'm high enough and then my pushing down suddenly starts working again. Hopeless fight though ...

There's also that weird phenomenon when in fly mode, suddenly moving speed gets extremely slow (inside map of course). Normally I have to leave fly mode and then back again to regain normal speed. 
An Idea For A Ctf Map... 
A while back there was a thread here arguing which texture set was better Runic or Base. Ever since then I have been pondering building a ctf/tf map in which the two sides can battle it out. The textures would be original Id with the possible inclusion of some from rogue and hipnotic. I am not sure the bases would be identical for each side, might be interesting to mix it up.

I know most people here are DM or SP players but I thought it might be worth running by everyone. So...what do yall think? 
Go For It Fatboy 
I'd like to see it. 
Yeah... :-) 
Would be funny 
A Question On Entities 
before i go over that 255 entity limit... :P

what exactly counts as an entity? (not talking about edicts here)

i know that:
-each type of monster (if used) will count as one (so either 1 or 100 shamblers count as one)
-each func_ (other whatever bmodel) counts as one (unlike monsters, each iteration counts as one)
-echo misc item counts as one (like monsters) (includes weapons, ammo, health, etc...)

is there anything i'm missing, or do i have some of those wrong? 
Heh, 
i wrote echo instead of each. too much batch file writing i guess. 
Necros 
have you checked my archived QMap thread? I think there are some explanations of this issue there. 
I Really Would Have Checked It 
but ie keeps crashing when it loads the page. actually, ie crashes whenever i load a big page... it will crash if i opened up the GA thread from post 0... 
In The Zip 
there are also three smaller pages, one for each year. That's what they're for. My old system also crashed the first time I loaded the whole thread. 
I Know 
� 
If IE Still Crashes 
even with the small pages, try a better browser shell. I can really recommend GreenBrowser, http://www.morequick.com/indexen.htm , I've been running it for months.

It's a free 400k download, just unzip and run, no installation/uninstallation. It uses the IE Favorites and rendering engine so you're still basically running IE.

And I just tried to load the whole QMap thread in GB on my old systems and it works (a bit slow though). 
A Few Questions 
I have been using the Xatrix Wad in my project, and examining the textures in Photoshop I see that there is a great deal of subtexturing (the remainder of high rez to low rez shifting) in the textures that with a little careful tweeking can be made to be visibly clear at lower resolutions.

Of course, most commercial packages have it copy written you are not to modify the product in any form, but at this point, several years after any profit that could be made has been made do the distributors even care what is done with the product in a non-commercial capacity? 
Q1rad 
Okay, so I've got q1rad and a nice surface lights file set up.

1. coloured lighting - how?
2. how do I stop the faces that are surfacelights appearing so much brighter than everything else?

Cheers 
Far Concern 
As I am packing map-files to a PAK-file, I wondered what could be the max limit of a BSP.
At first I stopped mapping, when my bsp reached 1.4Mb but adding winmem16 gave me the oppertunity to go further.
I watched Dissolution Of Eternity, with its Last Bastion of 2.291.536byte
And as it is played under DOS there is no problem.
Now I am here with a map of 2.345.900 and I am concerned it will give an Alloc_hunc error.
(Not for me, but for distributing it in a PAK file) 
Hm... 
well, look at it this way,
nesp09 is about 5.8mb and only needed a special engine to run because it had too many monsters.

most of the file size comes from textures anyway, and as long as you keep your textures under 2mb you're fine.

LTH: read the text that riot wrote with his tools it explains everything about q1rad and the lights.

and there's nothing you can do about surfaces of surface lights being bright -- that's the way it works. :\ 
True, But.. 
I like to distribute a PAK-file.
Not to let people load a special engine.
You are right for the textures, Necros, but also told me diagonal water textures look odd.
So I used animated tex, what drives up the bitecount.
So let me be odd, and ask it again...(?!) 
Heh 
one of my new maps is nearly 9MB.
of course, I'm getting the hunc_alloc errors :) 
Bah 
 
Wow 
That's a huge map/ Of course, if you have to go custom, the executable would take less than another meg. For a map that size, I don't think it would be a bad idea. 
Transparent Water In Quake 
Hello,

I have downloaded the wqbsp165.zip file avalaible on www.annihilator.com/gameediting/files/q1files.html web site. The autor ensure transparent water is avalaible with his tool...I made a try with the starting map (adding water) to know how looks like transparent water in Quake... and it doesn't work.. I don't know where the problem comes from... I uses a PC (Atlon 2GHz, 256 Mo RAM, etc.. my PC is a new one buyed less than 3 month), and the QuArK 6.4.0-alpha3 map builder tool... This tool is able to launch QBSP.exe (your release), RVIS.exe and ARGHLITE.exe utilities for BSP build... I try to find more informations in the related text files, but without success...
Is there anybody who can help me to solve the problem please ?? 
JPLambert 
there should be a command line option when you compile the map. it should lookd like '-transwater' or something. just run wqbsp.exe /?
and you'll get all available options. or read the readme of this tool.
in the game, to see transparent water you have to enable it via console with command: r_wateralpha 0.3 (where 0.3 is the opacity level from 0 to 1)
gl 
Oh 
and of course you have to use opengl accelerated engine to see the transwater. 
Transparent Water In Quake.. Bis 
OK, I've made a run of qbsp.exe only, and a "-transwater" option doesn't exist... I need to check this again..

Concerning the "r_wateralpha 0.3" option, I'll try to find it this evening...

Furthermore, I think a have an openGL engine: I use fitzquake0.75 from few weeks... (it creates me a glquake directory in each map/pak directory used)

Thanx for the infos.. 
JPLambert 
sure there is no -transwater in id's qbsp.exe. it exists either in wqbsp or in bengt's treeqbsp which you can find here:
http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/treeqbspbjp.zip 
Transparent Water... 
Well, transparent water seems to be included as a default feature in my qbsp version... Perhaps it's only the "r_wateralpha 0.3" option I forgot... I'll retry this evening..If it doesn't work anymore, I'll test bengt's treeqbsp...
Thanx for the link ;-)...
Bye 
Yes 
usually, most engines default to r_wateralpha "1" because most people still don't compile maps for that. it's not something i use either actually. :P 
Transparent Water In Fitzquake... 
In the fitzquake075 readme, it is never talk about the r_wateralpha option... But, it says this engine is based on the source code released by ID software GLQuake: this feature is perhaps already included and not clearly specified...
There is also a "fog" console command that seems to enable/disable a fog "opacity" option. Does anyone known about this ?? 
Only... 
the three people who read the readme. 
About Fog... 
...I made the try, and it is very interesting to enable fog option (with a value of 0.2 or 0.3)... This generates a foggy environment that increases unsecurity sensation during the game...
Anyway.. is there an easy way to enable the console command at quake start-up imnstead of typing these ones manually ??? 
...more Precisely... 
.. is there a solution to enable (for example) fog and r_wateralpha option at start-up to avoid console manipulations before starting the game ???

Thanx.. 
JPLambert 
create autoexec.cfg file in your /id1 folder and just write there everything u want like:

+mlook
r_wateralpha 0.3
name JPLambert
sensitivity 10

etc... 
Btw 
personally i have an alias to enable/disable things like shadows/wateralpha/mirrors with one key. because not all the maps support wateralpha and when you run non alpha map it causes HOM like effect on the water so you'll have to disable it. i do that by pressing one key, not by typing it manually every time on console.

my autoexec looks like this:

http://vondur.net/files/autoexec.cfg 
Autoexec.cfg 
OK, I've got only a default one... I'm going to make some modifications (like in your autoexec.cfg file) to add options and more binding keys... Thank you for the link...
I think in the future I will required some help again... I'm about to start building my first map based on the egyptian Hatchepsout temple (I think the file will be named Hellchepsout ;-) but I'm not really sure... ).. Perhaps it is a big challenge to start with big map, I will see.... I'm still creating some new textures using some temple photos I found on the web... I hope it will show a great map appearance as real as possible !!!
Bye... 
JPLambert 
building a large map (or open map with huge castle) requires smart brush placement. look for r_speeds. it shouldn't be more than 1000, otherwise the map will be unplayable on weak systems. 
About Large Map 
When you say large map, you told about bsp file size, or about the number of brushes/textures/monsters, etc... it can be found in it ??
And do you really think it still exists "weak systems" today ?? Obsolete PC (like 2 years old PC) are running using at least 1GHz processor and 128 Mo RAM.. or I don't understand what you mean about "weak systems"... What is, for you, a "weak system" ?? 
Mesh Abuse 
I screwed with a mesh to make it intersect the stairs brushes to create sand.

http://www.cursesandepithets.com/quake3/pushsc/mesh.jpg

Is this a horrible abuse or a good idea? 
Well 
under large map i meant the map with high polycount, i.e. a lot of bruses/textures/monsters etc.
under weak systems i meant old puters like pii with voodoo card on board (or w/o gfx accelerator at all). believe me there still are such puters with quake players on them :)

of course it's your choice either to support weak systems or not. personally I've raised my r_speeds ceiling from 700 to 1000 recently. but i'm still trying to make r_speeds as low as possible. 
Pushplay 
it's a good idea i think. 
Vondur 
OK, I agree, sure you have a bigger experience than me in this domain, so I will take a particular care to make r_speeds as low as possible... As I am beginner in Quake map building, all good advices are welcomed ...
Thanx again...
Bye 
Pushplay 
Think you've got the compression high enough on that image? ;) Half a meg just for a jpg screenshot...

Anyway, I think that's how most people do it. It's certainly easier. AFAIK you only begin to have problems if you can view it from a distance, in which case you'll begin to have z-fighting and artifacts; especially at lower bits per pixel. 
A Question 
By definition an autoexec.cfg is supposed to run automatically right? I can never get them to work in Fitzquake without exec'ing from the console. 
Blitz 
The behaviour should be governed by your quake.rc file... try adding another .cfg file to its list to execute with a name other than 'autoexec.cfg' 
Yes 
the quake.rc file is the only file that really gets run automatically by quake. autoexec and config just get run from quake.rc

here's another one of those useless tips:
if you're making a pak file and want to include special settings, never include an autoexec or config .cfg files because alot of players (myself included) have their own with special commands they like (look at vondurs for example) if you include you're own config and autoexec, you override the player's ones. therefore, to get around this, change the quake.rc to include another .cfg file and put your special settings there.

roar. 
That Was A Half Meg? 
Ooops.

Ok, thanks guys. 
A Simple Question 
I'm not sure exactly how entities count (one entity per each monster, regardless of the amount of that monster?), but I'm wondering this: Would replacing a bunch of monsters that are triggered to teleport (ie, trigger_teleport, monster_whatever and info_teleport_destination) with func_spawns lower a level's entity count significantly? 
Tronyn 
One edict per monster.

Yes.

Also - there is a limit on how many models one can precache, so having multiple func_x's can hit the engine precache limits, because each counts as a separate precached model. 
Clarification 
One edict per instance of each monster i.e. two scrags plus three soldiers equals five edicts. 
You can tell I've been doing a lot of mapping recently, I'm full of questions.

I set up two portals so that each camera looks away from the other portal. And the two portals aren't looking at each other. Is there something about this setup that would make it not work? 
JPG To Texture 
Hello,
I try to create new textures using some JPG photos (converted in PCX files and added into a wad file, with some changes in resolution, color, dimensions, etc..), and when I test the map, my texture (applied to a wall for example) stay very "big" comparing to the player view... (for example an artefact of some centimeter in real live appear to be meters in quake for the player !!)
How can I avoid this problem ?? And what is the heigh of the player during the game ??
Thanx 
JPLambert 
Are the textures sized down to a multiple of 16? Most wall texe's in Quake are 128x128. Smaller textures are 64x64 (like the larger buttons). So like:

16, 32, 64, 128, 256...

I'm not sure what the largest multiple accepted is, someone else should know. But you can do like this: 32 + 16 = 48 so let's say a certain texture works best at 48 x 16... you get the idea. 
Phait 
Yes. I've sized textures correctly... The map building crashes if the textures sizes are not a multiple of 16.. It happends in my first tests...
But how to apply a correct size to texture (when applied to a brush), in order to have a player view as close as possible to reality?
Thanx

PS: For infos I've extracted the Zerstorer textures and there exist a 384x384 texture ... So 
 
Is the texture applied at scale of 1.0? Are you meaning that you want to see more detail upclose instead of pixels? In that case you'd have to shrink the texture, but you'll still see pixels, just probably not as big. 
Phait 
Ah... I didn't see this feature of texture scaling.. I'm going to take a look at the Help file, it certainly has further informations I missed...
Thanx
Bye.. 
Antilights, WAD3 Support 
and other things are now available at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k .

Any comments are welcome. 
Hmmm. 
you may not want to build a whole level with different texture scaling... for one thing, it messes the lightmaps up something fierce as well as makes qbsp cut up faces more i think.
i tried doing that for a speedmap and it looked awful. mind you the map was pretty bad to begin with... ;) 
LTH 
Dunno if anyone has answered your Q1rad question, if not then here ya go:

"Coloured light, how?"

use the -exportlit cmd line parm when compiling light.

"light emitting surfaces, any way to stop them being so bright?"

No... :( Unfortunately not, it sucks yeah. Best way to get around it is use light textures with very very dark borders so that the visual effect is subdued / eliminated in MOST cases, or use a light texture where the "light" covers the entire texture, with no border etc..

Happy fun whay! 
Btw 
q1rad coolness again, try messing with the "-smooth x" option, its fucking lovely, x=max angle q1rad will smooth the light around, set this at around 25-30 and a 12 sided cylinder looks like a 120 sides cylinder, cool effect! 
Bah 
Radiosity is the sawk, I've gone back to trusty old TyrLite. That said, that 'smooth' function sounds interesting - but I can't be arsed to convert all of my coloured lights back into the stupid format that Q1rad needs, instead of the sensible format that TyrLite & co use. And anyways, I don't really like the light-saturating effect that radiosity has.

Cheers anyway! 
Hmmm 
did you try -bounce 0 and what light brightness settings were you using for your surfacelights? 
 
What's the point of using a radiosity lighting tool with bounce turned off? 
Errr 
so you can say "I make teh map look sexeh MOH YEAH!!!"

like duh... :D 
I'm With LTH 
Doesn't bounce 0 mean no radiosity? I'm confused...

: ) 
AguirRe 
My comment is, hurrah!

Thank you all the hard work, aguirRe. 
Well... 
"radiosity" refers to bouncing light, sure, but in our line of work, it's usually paired with light emitting surfaces. So, if you want light emiting surfaces, but don't care about bouncing light, you might use bounce 0.

Yes, i'm very drunk. And i can still type better than you. 
But... 
As previously stated, I don't care about light emitting surfaces, since they look crap. 
Lodfop 
I typed that header with my nipples. The amazing world of wireless. 
 
You must have some fucking big bitch tits to be able to type with them. 
Lol 
Bob has bitch tits -- nope just a set of extremely cold nipples. 
Btw, LTH 
glad to see you on the func_board. Does that mean you are you mapping as much as you code these days? 
Lol 
You could say that. 
AguirRe 
Could you just explain the use of _sun_mangle for me: how are the two parameters used? 
Mike 
x = yaw, y = pitch, z = placeholder. 
LTH 
Thanks. I understand yaw and pitch but not 'placeholder'.

Sorry to be dense but I have never used _sunlight before: I am only trying it now after reading some comments by AguirRe in this forum.

I have a rather large (high) set of mountains in FMB12 and lighting them is proving difficult.

As a by the way, is 256 the largest texture size that can be used in Quake1 - I can see some pretty obvious tiling? 
Mike: 
'Placeholder' means just put zero; i believe it's needed becuase the compiler expects a vector, but only actually has a use for two or the numbers.

Re: texture size, first, check this: http://www.celephais.net/stuff/texturefaq.htm

Second, try scaling the texture up, or using more lighting variation to break up the large surfaces. (I know, "lighting variation" is contrary to the whole _sunlight aesthetic. But you could still put in some subtle point lights or antilights to create the needed variety.) 
Mike 
placeholder is exactly that - it doesn't do anything, it's just necessary to convince the compile utils that you're using a 3-part vector. 
Metl 
Doesn't HalfLife allow texture randomization? How does it do it? 
Thanks Guys 
(or gals!) 
Ha Ha Metlslime Is A Girl! 
Yes, Metlslime Is A Grrl 
More proof!

<goetz> http://www.celephais.net/quake/
<goetz> metlslime is that u ?
<goetz> i thought u were male
<metlslime> i'm a hot japanese girl
<Auhsan> woa
<Auhsan> I love you metlslime
<metlslime> this explains why i never get laid, after all, who wants to have sex with a hot japanese girl?
<metlslime> nobody. I wish i was one of those skinny white computer geeks. They get all the sex.
<Auhsan> from their hands
<metlslime> heh
* metlslime cries
 
Help Again 
I am just trying to see the difference between using _sunlight or placed light entities in a map.

For some reason, light does not seem to work on my trial, 2055 brush, map. Here is the readout: -

4361 planes 87220
4252 vertexes 51024
2387 nodes 57288
6 texinfo 240
3888 faces 77760
13244 clipnodes 105952
1202 leafs 33656
4808 marksurfaces 9616
17010 surfedges 68040
8506 edges 34024
2 textures 130652
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 176

File: ter2.bsp
3 entities read, 1 are lights, 3888 faces

Light: 0.0%, Elapsed: 0:00
Light: 100.0%, Elapsed: 0:01

lightdatasize: 0
0 switchable light styles

Elapsed time : 0:02
BspBuild [Light complete]

The numbers mean nothing to me. Can anybody spot my (probably obvious) error? 
It Looks... 
like you only put on light entity:
3 entities read, 1 are lights, 3888 faces


sunlight needs: _sunlight # for intensity, and _sun_mangle x x x for direction. 
Having An Interesting, Albeit Annoying Problem... 
there's a phantom brush which has cropped up in my map which i'm trying to get rid of...

the problem is, the brush doesn't appear in gtkradiant, but when i compile the map, it is there, in quake. there's nothing wrong with the brush, other than it is a phantom... it's not super deformed or huge or any of the common problems...

any suggestions? 
Mike 
Look in the readme for sunmangle details and some recommendations to start with. The third number, the "placeholder", isn't required at all anymore in my tools (but is accepted for compatibility).

In your log printout, lightdatasize is 0, which means that there is no lights generated at all (the map is probably pitch black). There is one light entity (sunlight isn't counted as a light entity), but for some reason is doesn't generate any measurable light.

Send me the zipped map+wad and what tool arguments you're using and I'll try to find out why it doesn't work. 
Texture Randomisation 
I believe texture randomisation in HL is done with a naming convention, so to randomise between 3 textures you would name them
-0texname
-1texname
-2texname

and so on. They probably have to have the same dimentions for this to work. 
Necros 
Dumb question probably, but you're sure you don't have anything either filtered or hidden in-editor?

If not, try brush-cleanup (either plugins or a button, depending on what version you're running).

You could also try hiding all brushes in the area (select one-by-one and hide) and then doing a "select touching" in the empty space that's left and see if you get anything selected? 
Simultaneous Posting 
Necros, sunlight only needs the intensity value to be activated, the sunmangle is default 0,-90 (pretty boring zenith sunlight, though). Check out the readme for this and other related information.

As for the phantom brush, is it solid, i.e. not penetrable with rockets/player? 
Texture Randomization... 
i believe it works as preacher said, but as for the implementation, i think it subdivides the face into polygons (just like quake does, actually) and each polygon of the original face gets one of the 3 textures in preacher's example. 
Necros: 
like you only put on light entity ... sunlight needs: _sunlight # for intensity, and _sun_mangle x x x for direction.

necros: _sunlight and _sun_mangle are keys, not entities. They both go in the worldspawn entity. 
Lights 
I have two test maps: one is lit via the _sunlight key in the worldspawn entity, and the other is lit by one light entity with no entry in the worldspawn.

I wanted to see how _sunlight lit the map as I saw some advantages when considering how many light entities my map would require (it is not a big map in terms of depth and width, but is fairly high due to some pesky mountains.

I will take up aguirRe's offer to see what he can tell me. Thanks everyone. 
AguirRe 
E-mail on its way. I forgot to mention that I use Bsp Editor. 
Metl 
You mean it would be possible to write a bsp compiler for Quake that does it, then?

AguirRe, Riot, whoever, get to it! :P 
Responses: 
pjw: yep, i'm sure it's not just filtered or something :)

aguire: It appears to be a completly solid brush, but it doesn't appear to be a extension from another one, because i've removed all the brushes surrounding it, and this brush is still there, in the middle of nowhere...

metlslime: yeah, i meant to say: "it looks like you only put one light" -- forgot the e. 
The GreenHorn And The PAKfile 
As I am working on a PAK file, and adding all kind of Quake1 bsp's into it, I got rather confused of the size of these maps.

As I really got Zombie by betatesting, this strange appearance overcame to me.

First I had some maps I laid my hands on, and I was quiet happy to play them.
Then I decided to make them attached to eachother and turned my gloomed eyes to this board to find some knowhow.

At first the maps were small enough to be played under the safe surroundings of Windows.
But as I learned a lot of you and was pinching the maps to a higher level, it suddenly freaked me by getting the Alloc_hunc error.

It wasn't worrying me, because I was in the opinion that with the -winmem16 option it would go as smooth as possible.
Now experimenting with these PAKfiles I came to the conclusion I had to make a choice.

Or I would make a PAKfile what would play under every circomstances in the Window surrounding, but than it would be the one with the smallest maps and therefore the crappy one. But at least noone would get stuck on this Alloc_hunk error, what is in my opinion the worst buck I could imagine.

Or I would be as stubborn as I am, and just load all the maps with their sizes of some even 2.2Mb in the PAK file and think that when one would like to play it, one ought to size ones computer to the DOS standard and get along with it. This last one is one of my own appealings.

Still I have the idea it is a reasonable question to ask, because I have found myself to much times grumbling behind this alloc_hunc error after having a lot of fun with a pak of files.

In fact it is the same question as trying to make the levels to ID standards, and by doing so making the chance of distroying it under its own cummalating weight.

You may find I make to many words for a small question as this, but after sending a lot of maps to all the ones who were willing to take a look at it, where I am still gratefull for, I wanted to know what you single super mappers out there would think of this question from this poor little sod out in the Quake Universe.

And please don't ask if I was drinking again,
because I begin to see every pack of ammunition for a 6pack of beers... 
Hehe 
because I begin to see every pack of ammunition for a 6pack of beers... :)

anyway, if you're asking if it would be ok to make players use the -winmem 16 (or -heapsize 16000) command line when playing your maps, then the answer is yes. in fact, almost all my maps have needed -winmem 16 or even -winmem 32 to play. don't worry. just include a little note in your readme about how to do it and it should be fine. 
Stupid Question 
Do lavaballs counts as edicts?

and please don't tell me they do 
MadFox 
What necros just said. That memory error message isn't a problem at all for most Quake players today, don't worry about it.

There are probably other more important issues you might worry about in your pak, e.g. visuals, gameplay, flow etc. 
Phantom Brush 
Necros, you can send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it. You'll probably have to tell me where the brush is (and isn't supposed to be) as well. 
Yep 
They do. Also, every lavaball that the (invisible) misc_lavaball entity throws counts as well. 
Who Cares? 
Really, why is anyone bothered about edict limits anymore? There are plenty of engines out there that abolish them. 
There Also Aren't Very Many Software Engines With Increased Edicts 
 
And What Really Sucks... 
...is being forced to use a different engine just to play one map. 
 
Presumably the Nehahra software engine bumps the edict count?

And if it does, why not just use that one *all the time*?

You mapperse are so stuck in the past :P 
Nehahra Software Engine? 
Please, point me in its direction. 
GeForce Fx Ti 4 Series -- 90 Bucks 
Time not worrying about software mode compatabilaty -- priceless 
Rpg: 
there's tyr-quake, which is basically the regular software quake with many limits removed. a good alternative, i think. 
TyrQuake 
has also more windowed video modes and is much less fussy with troublesome bsps. Very useful when hunting leaks and other stuff.

Necros: What's going on with your email attachments? I'm still not receiving them, are they very big or are they filtered somewhere? 
Removing DM-bodies 
Is there a way (without QC) to avoid player bodies remaining visible after suicide (with kill command) in DM? Or at least shorten the time until they vanish.

I'm still working on the auto-screenshot generator and it looks weird when after some screenshots, a lot of bodies are all over the place. 
Hjhgg 
aguirre: use zquake 
DM Bodies 
In the killer pack, dead bodies remain and don't disappear.. They stay "solid" for the player during the game... Perhaps there is a model you can re-use to modify a little the game to perform this feature..
Enjoy !!! 
Nehahra 
I thought nehahra.exe was software. If it's not, then please set me straight. 
Nehahra Is GL Only 
Which is where Neh Nekkid (software version) comes in, but Mindcrime never released that. 
i know! get a model program and open up the player.mdl from the pak0.pak

now, delete all but one triangle from the model. 
Thanks For The 
suggestions, I'd hoped that there was an easier way like an engine cvar.

I started to fiddle with the player.mdl also but realized that if I do that, I can just as well fix it in QC (and actually fix some other problems too). 
Sweeping The Bodies Under The Carpet... 
I can't remember if this is the case with player bodies, but if they're removed on a timer, you could set host_framerate to a very high value(say 10000) so that time passes very quickly. Otherwise the qc method works well too. 
Fraid Not 
Bodies disappear at the rate that the player spawns - there's a body queue of about length 4 to which new bodies are added. 
How About... 
setting r_drawentities to 0? 
The CopyToBodyQue 
in the respawn function was what I commented out to get rid of the bodies without any obvious side-effects.

r_drawentities affects also all ammo, weapons etc so it's too coarse, I want the shots to look as original as possible.

I'm now trying to make the player rotate in any deathmatch or monster position for each suicide, but it seems tricky.

Is there an explanation of all variables/members (e.g. entity.chain) and lower level functions (e.g. find/findradius) available somewhere? 
There's A Qc Manual Out There... 
sadly, i don't have it in electronic form anymore... 
Right After 
I posted I realized that maybe I should try Google first ...

Anyway, I found one here http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/quake/Qc/qc-built.htm . It appears to be what I was looking for. Together with the Inside3D tutorials, I hope it'll be more clear. 
Animated Texture 
I have a little problem, a basic one perhaps because I'm a beginner in Quake mapping... anyway... I want tu use some "animated texture": I mean a texture defined with several different one that performs an animation in the game, for example a flame on a wall (see +0light01 +1light01 +2light01 in ID software Light basic textures). I select the first texture (hopng the compiler to "link" the 2 others with it) and I certainly missed something, because during the game, there is no "animated" effect on the concerned brush..
Is there anyone who can help me please... 
Well 
try applying other frames on the faces you won't see in the game but these frames will be included into the bsp file...
i do that all the time, compilers i use never add other frames. and i'm not sure if they should... 
Surely... 
...surely compilers really ought to add all the animations into the map by themselves - there's no time when you're using an animated texture when you don't want it to animate, is there? 
Animated Textures 
Clearly, I want to use an animated texture, and keep the animation feature during the game !! My problem is the animated texture is blocked on the first one, and the "animation" is never performed...
Am I missing something in the compilation option or something else ?? I don't know, so any advices is welcomed 
Bleh 
as i said, apply other frames of the sequence on some brushes in your map and you'll get the animation working... just apply them on the faces that will get cut off by qbsp.exe and won't be visibl ein the game. but they'll be used by the button, etc.. 
#@*%&@## !!! 
AAAaaaahhhh !!! It's not a bug it's a feature !!! For the compiler: having in its texture list the missing ones for the animation is a turnaround.... So even if some brushes are cut and not used, but textured with those required for the animation, the brush that uses the animated one will have a complete list and then the game will performed the required effect ... OK, I understand now... I'm sorry... but sometimes for me, understanding quickly says to past a long time in explanantions... ;-) !!
Thanx
Bye 
Yeah. 
it's a stupid bug in earlier compilers...
aguire's treebsp fixes that too 
Hmmm 
i use bengt's qbsp and it doesn't picks other frames anyway.... dunno why. 
Oh 
DuBSP does it okay. 
Animated Textures 
I'm certainly no expert on these, but the compiler definitely checks for texture names that begin with + and adds the extra frames as necessary. You can easily see this in the compiler log Added x texture frames.

Vondur: Versions of TreeQBSP prior to 1.95 (that includes DuBSP) doesn't show this message unless in -verbose mode. TxQBSP has always shown them. See also latest readme.

You don't have to apply the extra frames anywhere in the map; just make sure that they are in the wad you're using, otherwise you'll get a warning.

I just tried it in a box map, apply the first of the animating textures (+0xxx) and the compiler will fix the rest. 
Can Anyone Explain Me 
what are clipnodes? What increases their amount apart from number of faces?

I heard about the clipnodes limit of about 32*** and just want to be carefull now. 
Has... 
...anyone had a crack at modifying CZG's Worldcraft quake.fgd to include Bengt's new lighting options? If yes, might you kindly make it available? 
Hey Couple Things 
Pulsar: Clipnodes are simply clip surfaces. Each surface exposed to the inside of a level (not the void) clips the player (he can run into it, over it, etc). In DM maps, people often cover intricate areas (ruined bricks for example) with a wide brush with the clip texture. The clip texture makes a brush using it clip as normal (blocks the player that is), but is invisible in-game. If you're still confused, let me know (My latest maps all original have run over the clipnode limit). I owe aguirRe a lot for helping me out with this.

And, hey: does anyone want to do a bit of work for me modifying weapons models? I'd do it myself, but my qME must be an inferior version or something since all I can do is view, not change anything on the models or alter any animations (argh). 
To Clarify 
If a bunch of brushes overlap without any space between them, that doesn't clip since the player can't go there. That's why clipping brushes lower the amount of clipnodes - a surface with 25 tiny little bricks all the same height on the ground, could be covered with one clip brush and would then clip as one brush rather than as the 5 sides exposed on each brick. 
Tronyn 
Mail me what you want doing with those models. 
Texture Application 
Hello, thanks to those who helped me for my "animated textures" problem yesterday.. Just another thing: when you apply texture to brush, it's possible to choose a scale factor to reduce/increase texture size.. I'm just looking for an easy way to choose this scale factor and anticipate the "game view" thet will performs. Is there someone who can give me some advices conerning this topic ??
Thanks 
Hmm 
don't play with scales too much, use default scale. otherwise the map might look crappy. personally i use slightly scaled textures on some faces that aren't texture size so i have to scale non-tiled texture a bit for it to fit. uder a bit i mean something likt 0.95 or 1.05 scale.
yet huge tex scale is useful when you make sky. it's good idea to use scale of sky texture something like 100. this will reduce polycount of sky surface. 
Vondur 
The default scale is set to 1 in QuArK6.4.0, and it seems to be a little big, because the map look crappy with this size... I mean the texture details are very visible without "putting your nose" on a brush (bit definition of the texture appears...) I made some try with 0.4 up to 0.5, and the map looks better (bit definition of the texture disappears even if you "put your nose" on the brush)... Perhaps the texture scaling is different from one tool to another one... I don't really know how to find an efficient turnaround of this little problem without making many try.. Is there a method, or anything else, that can show me what is the good scaling method (if I decide to change of mapping tool for example) ? 
Hm 
try looking at the textures in start.bsp, you'll get the idea of default proper scaling... 
VonDur 
OK, there is no real method to anticipate the map looks like otherwise trying and compare the results with existent maps... It's also possible that it misses something else in my tool configuration... I will check this this evening
Thanx 
++++ERROR++++
numtexinfo=MAX_MAP_TEXINFO

where did I raise this bull? 
Um... 
i'm not sure, but i think that's the error when you have too many textures (as in filesize) the limit is 2mb, so check to see if you are over it. 
You're Referring To 
MAX_MAP_MIPTEX (originally 2MB), which is the actual size of all textures in bsp. MadFox has hit another limit (originally 4096) which is the max # different texture info objects in bsp.

This number normally increases when you have many different textured faces in different positions/angles and it typically gets pretty high when using QuArK ETP or Hammer Valve 220 map format due to them capable of more complex texture positioning.

MadFox, I assume that you're still using the qbsp256 compiler and apparently it cannot cope with your current map requirements.

If you want to stick with that compiler, you must lower the texinfo requirements. See if you can change map format from QuArK ETP to Classic Quake in the configuration (I'm not sure you can do this in v4.07).

Otherwise you must use a newer compiler with a higher limit. Email me directly if you need more help regarding this issue. 
Thanks For The Info 
I lowered the polyhedron count.
I used 1244 polyhedrons, every brush more crashes the compiler.
So I stick to this limit by sharing out brushes and delete stairs etc.

I wish I understood that MipTex Acracadabra
but it is all right, nevermind.
As long as the map compiles. 
Oh 
i'm not sure, but i think that's the error when you have too many textures (as in filesize) the limit is 2mb

Haven't expected that I'm close to another limit, this time of 2 mb textures. I have 1.9+ mb of them.

Is it a limit of tools or of the engine? 
Damn Tag I Forgot To Close 
and I forgot to thank Tronyn for explanation, it was very useful 
Tex Limit 
that used to be 2 MB is only "limited" in one of my tools, TxQBSP (16 MB, which should be sufficient for a while ...). All other tools are "unlimited", i.e. theoretically 2 GB. 
Anyone Interested 
Anyone interested in converting some Hexen II enemies to Quake? Specifically, I'm thinking the Hexen II mummy, which would fit in perfectly with the Night Journey's egyptian theme... I mean, uh, I'm not working on the Night Journey... uhm..

And, the Hexen II Skull Wizard would work well in the Arcane/Bookshelf project as well of course.

PuLSaR: No problem, glad to help. 
Lava Light 
This issue came up some time ago, have you tried putting a delay 3 light with intensity 100 just above the lava surface as a spotlight, directed straight down and with a cone of 180 degrees?

If used with a slightly flickering style, it has an interesting glowing effect. This doesn't glow upwards of course, but maybe it could be combined with some other lights for better result? 
QBSP Error 
I have a strange error with QBSP during portalize process..

WARNING:CutNodePortal_r:new portal was clipped away

I currently use QuArK6.4.0, and the tool makes a "hole found in map" error (while hole checking doesn't find one !!!???)... The map is generated, but the PRT file required by VIS tool is not generated due to the portalize process problem.
Is there anyone who can tell me where to look for ??? Or if there is a turnaround to bypass the problem ???

Thanx 
Take A Look 
at my Q1 ToolTips at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k
AguirRe 
Great !!! It solves the problem: TxQBSP found a misaligned texture... And QuArK locates the problem very easily...
Thanx !!
Bye... 
_sunlight 
Is _sunlight affected by the number of sky brushes in use in a map: I am joining several maps where there are many sky brushes used to 'seal' the individual maps (some 30 individual brushes of varying dimensions). These end up in my new map in various height positions lelative to each other e.g. a sky brush may be placed at +1024 units and another at -1024 units, whereas they were create at +2048 and +3072 units.

I suppose I am asking whether or not _sunlight calculates its 'sunshine' from each sky brush and that if sky brushes are at differing heights, is the resulting 'sunshine' going to look different according to the distance between the sky and the ground. As it were... 
_sunlight 
Having just hit Submit, I realise that I am probably asking this question of aguirRe more than anyone else. Still, others may be interested? 
Amount Or Distance 
of sky brushes are irrelevant. The basic thing that matters is if a certain face can "see" a sky brush, i.e. a straight line can be drawn between the face and any sky brush. This is all that is required for indirect sunlight (sunlight2, outdoor minlight) to hit the face.

For direct sunlight, the line must also have the right angle as specified in sunmangle. 
AguirRe 
Got it, thanks. 
Space Skybox 
I'm looking for a skybox of empty space, nebulas, etc. If you know where I can get one, please help!

Cheers 
Conversion To Ultimate Deathmatch Mod Format 
http://www.planetquake.com/speedy/stuff.htm
http://www.planetquake.com/jaj/skies.html
LTH, if you can make some models for UD let me know. Enjoy... :)
http://www.planetquake.com/ud/

I'v found that speed maps suit my needs for maps for the mod. I'v patched Koohoo with the author's permission, so you can gib the end monster. Conversion of maps(speed maps mostly) by zwiffle, than, rpg, necros, xen, and a few others i'll be starting soon.

Just the changing entity lists, keeping the original flow of the game for sp. For dm, adding the mod specific items. Have many picked out, trying to narrowing it down.

If you have a problem with this let me know. No disrespect for map authors is intended. Can't find mappers, so I have to do it myself.

as 
Shadowalker 
I'm a crap skinner. If you can get past that, I can make technical (ie. not monster) models. I'm quite busy right now though, so tell me what you need and I'll see if I can find the time.

And none of those skyboxes are 'empty space / nebula', which is what I'm looking for. 
HOM Problem 
I have an HOM problem in my map during the game.. TxQBSP, RVIS and ARGHLITE processes are OK , and map size is about 500 ko only... This is the first time I face this problem. How can I prevent my map from HOM problem ??? 
See Post #1275 
.. 
AguirRe 
Thanx for your help, but, what link(s) is(are) able to help me ?? I have no idea about what to look for...
...sorry... 
Sorry, It Appeared 
above in your post #1276 as if you already found the Q1 Tooltips and got help from it. Anyway, look in the bottom right corner of my site or click here: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/tooltips.txt .

If you still need help with your HOM, you can send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it. 
Shadowalker 
I had no idea UD has single player capabilaties. I have some older levels on my harddrive I could fix up for the mod, and I have a mindflayer model I made for the original Thief I would be glad to convert to Quake mdl format. So if you are interested I'll work them over this coming weekend. 
AguirRe 
OK, I found the stuff... it seems to be a problem coming from RVIS... As you explain in the tooltip text file (thanks for the related link...), I try "gl_clear 1" and "r_novis 1" command from the console, and it solves me the HOM problem...
I will check all the brushes, and try to realign all textures if required... Thus I will see if HOM remains... otherwize perhaps there exists some compilation options I forgot... I'm very curious about those you currently use... I have to improve and optimize my process...
Thanx
Bye... 
Biff Debris? 
This guy made a couple texture packs that fleshed out the standard base, and metal id textures. In them he used a stone texture in combination with some of the tech textures to produce a very cool looking set of hall/wall textures. Unfortunnatly it doesnt look like the actuall stone texture got included in the WAD. Id "really" like to get a matching stone texture to go with the others. Does anyone know where I can get it or maybe contact Biff Debris? Id like to use these textures in my first mapping attempt, but not having the base stone texture is a bummer.

Thanks! FaT. 
FaTbOy! 
I'm assuming that you're referring to the rok_la* or _re* texes, and those were made by Asaki. The stone texture itself is cliff1, which I've got -- but dunno where I got it from. If you would like, I could send it to you via email -- unless someone else might know what .wad it originally resided in... 
Thanks! 
garthargh@yahoo.com

I am a compulsive collector, if you've got links to, or .wad files of any interesting textures feel free to send them to me. One thing though since I am using yahoo, there is a size limit of 1 or 1.5 megs imposed on emails recieved.

Btw great texture sets! There are detail textures in them that I have been wishing for for years. Ive made several not to successful attempts to modify some of the exsisting id textures to suit my purposes. But so far I wouldnt show any of them to my parents, much less to the public.

Anyhoo, thanks again! FaT. 
Cliff1 
If it's the same one I'm thinking of, it came from the Rogue mission pack. 
Sent =D 
Just fired off a little .wad with the texture to you -- ahh, technology. 
Thanks! 
Yes the internet is a wonderful thing.

I looked through the rogue wad and didnt see it. I have had my doubts as to the completeness (that a word?) of some of the id and crew .wads out there.

Screwy thing now is worldcraft keeps telling me the .bsp for my level wasnt built. Its rather anoying... 
Stupid Question... 
about Bengt jardrup's tools. There are alot of files with the .c extention. Would I be assuming correctly that these are source files and do not need to be installed into my worldcraft tools directory? 
Yep. 
all you need are the .exe files 
Yep. 
all you need are the .exe files 
Woah... 
i double posted! 
Missing Texture 
I have a missing texture in the .bsp and it is not visible in the game. However, I have looked through the .map file and cannot find the name of the texture to enable me to change it.

I know I do not need to do anything... but I want to.

So, fellow mappers, is there a tool to check the .bsp to get the name of the texture. Alternatively, how can I easily locate this missing texture? 
If You Have 
built the bsp from a map file, just check the compiler log.

AFAIK, it's not possible to see in the bsp which texture (i.e. name) that is missing, because it's ... missing.

If you can't see it in-game, it's probably some kind of a clip/trigger texture. Surprisingly many released bsps have missing textures. 
SZ_GetSpace: 8098 Is > Full Buffer Size 
Too many entities. Right?

But does this mean to many edicts or just too many brushmodels? Or both?

And also: Am I correct thinking that ambient sounds don't count as edicts or other bad things with low limits? 
Missing Texture 
WARNING 16: Texture bodiesa3_1 not found

Thanks again, aguirRe

I usually have -verbose turned off and just did not think. (Too busy checking the �re weather whilst compiling my map file!) 
Ambient Sounds 
count as edicts. 
It's Bad 
 
Pretty Much 
every entity, except for lights which aren't switchable or have a "style" set to them are edicts. that doesn't include torches and flames -- these are "static entities" and have a limit all their own. 
Func_illusionary 
...is also a static entity, and therefore not an edict. 
What's Wrong? 
So I received a demo from a map I sended.
Unzipped it with Dzip, and placed it in my
Quake directory. Openend the map that was related to, and gave the console the option:
playdemo test1.dem

Still I receive the -can't open test1.dem- 
Here's What's Wrong 
you should put it in the /id1/ directory, not the quake directory 
I Did 
won't work. 
 
"Just fired off a little .wad"

Bet you did ^_~ 
What Does It Mean... 
What does it mean when I get a 'Reached occupant at XYZ, no filling performed' error, not in FillOutside but in GrowRegions (hull 2 to be precise)?

Cheers. 
What 
FERN I LOVE 
Rennie... 
You don't need to tell Quake that the file is a .dem, so just type "playdemo test1" 
Fr3N! 
...still lurking, good to see. Can we expect a release soon ;P (seems to be the go with some of the old krew). 
Necros&metlslime 
thanks, I'll note that 
Against All Ods 
Had the same rubbish with the Dzip file Necros sended me. Don't know what it is. After months I was able to read the demo file.
Same goes with this one. Done all I could, even without the *.dem option, but it won't work.

Think the Orges are conspiring against me, after they noticed I turned them up in a Mission pak.

But nevermind, if they catch my real name, I still have time enough to establish my firewall and jumppath... 
LTH 
you just have a leak in hulls 1/2. GrowRegions has nothing to do with it, leaks always occur in FillOutside.

Load up the game with the pts file and see where the leak is. I suggest you also take a look at my Q1 ToolTips at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k .

If you still can't fix the leak, send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it. 
-=0=- 
glquake/winquake crash without any errors when I enter large open area in my map. I suppose it happens because of edicts, but Tyrquake says there are only 560+ edicts there, not >600

Im not sure, should any error tell me about edicts overflow when crashing? 
 
You won't overflow the edict count by going into an area with many edicts - the edict count is static. 
I Know 
but I noticed that edicts grow up a little (about 20-30) from their ammount in the begining of the map. And that area is the second area from the start room. 
Well, 
rockets and nails count as edicts, as well as gibs, so if you gib alot of guys while shooting rockets and there are nail traps firing at you, you can go over the limit.

you should try to keep about 60 edicts free for this kind of stuff, and even that is close. 
 
you should try to keep about 60 edicts free for this kind of stuff, and even that is close.

Well, let's kill some... ammo crates and medkits:)

seriously, I need to free at least 20 edicts, that's bad;
it won't be easy, I've just completed placing monster on normal and now I need to fix it without destroing gameplay..:( 
Well... 
the obvious solutions would be replacing lots of smaller ammo with less larger ammo...

you can look into monster spawning to help abit, especially if you already have the teleporting monsters set up... you can get rid of like 3 edicts there: the trigger, the teleport trig and the teledest ent.

also, you can code a thing to remove corpses, that way you get an edict back everytime you kill something...

and, of course, change the gameplay -- less health and less monsters.

good luck. i ran into the same problems with most of my newer levels :\ 
 
the obvious solutions would be replacing lots of smaller ammo with less larger ammo...

oh, there's already no small ammo

but I think I have to remove some teleporing monsters 
Teleporting Monsters 
Pulsar: I think what Necros is talking about is using a QC patch to make the monsters teleport in, rather than removing them completely. There are patches that allow you to set a flag on a monster, which will 'teleport' it in when triggered. That way you wouldn't need the entities he listed. Of course, then your map isn't properly playable without the custom QC patch...

Perhaps an alternative for an ambush would be to have the monsters that currently teleport in behind a door that will slide away to reveal the monsters. That way, instead of three entities per monster, you'd just have 1 entity to set up the entire attack. 
... 
Of course, then your map isn't properly playable without the custom QC patch...

so? include it in a pak file. pak files are never frowned upon these days. 
...... 
However, it does mean that you can't play the map in any other mod. 
Still, 
Spawning monsters in beats the hell out of setting up teleportations (rooms, monsters, triggers). 
Why Would You Do That In The First Place? 
obviously, you'll be screwing up the gameplay of the map which was not meant to be played with other mods.

you could play the original quake with a mod which permanently gives you quad damage, but why would you want to? (barring doing it for fun) 
Necros 
So... you would never want to play a map in Nehahra, for example? 
Or 
What about coop in QW? QW requires its own progs.dat, keep in mind. 
Blah 
I have several mods I like to play old maps in. I made Black Ops and Battlemech specifically to reuse maps with no progs customizations. 
rpg: i figured there'd be exceptions like this but i hadn't bothered thinking about them. the way i see it (for those exceptions) is that if you want to play a map in another mod than what the map was intended to be played in, it should be the mapper's fault if you can't and the mapper shouldn't feel restrained from making his own changes codewise for his map because some people won't be able to have fun with other mods.

also, is it not possible to use the nehahra engine without the progs? or did you actually mean to use the new ai and stuff?

as for lth: to reuse maps with no progs customizations. (emphasis added)
there you go. ;) 
Preach Or Anyone Who Knows These Things... 
Where can I find the "QC patch to make the monsters teleport in", and how is it used? 
 
Unless you're referring to a specific patch I'm unaware of you don't need one, just do this:

set a func_trigger or trigger_multiple (I haven't touched WC in months so if I'm wrong guys correct me)... make a box room somewhere outside of your map, place a trigger_teleport brush on the bottom, give it a target. Place the info_tele_destination or whatever that one is whre you want the monster to spawn at. GIve it the name you gave the target field in the trigger_teleport brush.

Inside that box room put the monster(s) you want in there. 
Phait 
Thanks, but I knew that bit. I'm referring to the posts #1326 and #1328 above. It suggests other ways of achieving teleporting. 
Mike 
One of the mission pack progs has spawning monsters, meaning you don't place the monster in the editor, the trigger actually generates a monster during play. I think it's the hipnotic progs.dat but I'm not sure. There's also an example map... somewhere... keep googling. 
Necros 
I meant with the new AI and stuff. 
Teleporting Monsters Patch 
I figured I'd have a go at this, seeing as some of the versions I've seen have issues with telefragging/stuck monsters and monsters freezing for a second after teleporting. Mod and source at:
http://www.btinternet.com/~chapterhonour/teleport.zip
There's a readme in there, but basically set the monster's style to 1 and target it to teleport it in. 
I meant with the new AI and stuff.

well, see, that would count as screwing up the gameplay to me. it'll be a lot harder to play, so you could experience ammo shortages, lack of health, etc... stuff you would never know if you had played it the way it was meant to be played. ;) 
That Was The Way The Nehahra Maps Were Designed 
From what Bal told me, none of the mappers knew the game was going to be so difficult; otherwise they would have put in more ammo and such. 
Brush Merging 
I am using BspEditor and do not want to change (having recently tried several others) but I do have a bit of a problem with its Merge Brushes feature. I have a 12,000 brush map that I want to reduce in size and BspEditor takes an age e.g. the base for this particular map is 4000 brushes and the merge function takes (took) 8 hours. In addition, if the PC is 'touched' during merging the program crashes.

So, can anyone recommend a brush merge facility? And no, I do not want to do it by hand!! 
Delete It All And Start Again... 
kidding, of course ;D

I think you may be stuck with toughing out 8 hour merges... GtkRadiant is the only other editor that has a CSG merge command, and that only works for selected brushes to join into 1 brush... you'd basically have to go thru your whole map merging everything you want together. This may be a faster/easier process in the end, so keep it in mind.


btw, 12,000 brushes? 'whoa'. 
Mike: 
merge it in bsp, then export to .map, then open that .map in radiant, continue your map there, and merge as you go. 
Spawning Monsters 
Hipnotic/Ritual's Scourge of Armagon mission pack has an entity called a func_spawn, which allows you to "teleport in" anything - ammo, keys, monsters, func_kitchen_sink, anything. With the right flags or whatever, you can use it more than once.

Zerst�rer uses spawnflag 64 on monsters to delay their spawning. No teleport effect, and I think there is a slight delay after spawning, since it basically holds off on starting the monster until use. 
Mike 
Why do you want to merge brushes, am I missing something here? The 12k brushes are no problems for the compilers, except for sheer processing time, that is. 
12000 Brushes !?! 
thats quite a lot, isnt it? =) 
I'd Say So, Yes. 
 
Aquire 
I was wondering the same. I use to get similar sizes when I experimented with mesh to brush programs but as you can see that is a lot of trouble to deal with if that is the source of the magnitude here. If it just so happens that 12000 brushes is the number of brushes Mike arrived at more power to him. Even my largest maps have been less than 4000 when built entirely in editor. 
Merging Brushes 
I want to merge to a) cut down compile times and b) to speed up the 3d window view; because I have not finished the map yet.

I really do not want to have to learn a new editor. I favour compiling two or three times per maping session, especially as this part of the map is a definite "make it up as you go along" area.

Ho hum, I figure that if I start merging before I go to bed on a workday, it should be finished by the time I come home from work the following noght. That gives the merge program some 16 hours. 
Hmm.... 
do you only have to merge once, or every time you want to compile? And do the compile times really drop enough to make up for the time spent merging? 
Metslime 
Only once. But I am impatient!

Problem solved - I have dug my old PC out of the cupboard and I am getting on with the next section of the map whilst the one-time merge of the terrain section is run on the old machine. Now it doesn't matter if it takes two days.

Also, having played around with aguiRe's lighting program, I now know that I can build the whole thing from smaller sections and will not have a lighting consistency problem when I join the maps at a later stage.

Finally, and this would also solve a lot of the issues for me, I seem to remember playing a set of maps that were linked through one map. Rather like a start map that you returned to and the effects of your previous visits were still evident e.g. the bodies remained, doors were still open, ammo that you took on a previous visit were not replaced.

Have I got the right game? 
Don't Think So 
However, numerous solutions to 'hub' maps have been bandied about over on http://forums.inside3d.com
I think the consensus is that you can do it for a very few objects with minor QC patching, or for more objects only with engine modding. 
Oh Well, 
...back to the 12,000 brush map then. 
Mike 
In my next version of Light, I've added something I call local minlight which may help joining together map parts that have different ambient requirements.

Local minlight is created by new delay 4 lights that are similar to delay 3 lights, but non-additive and they can go below the global minlight. These lights "cast minlight" which I hope can be quite useful.

This makes it rather flexible in creating different ambient levels in different areas. 
Useful... 
... how about how kind of 'range' keyvalue on it? 
Mike 
'Finally, and this would also solve a lot of the issues for me, I seem to remember playing a set of maps that were linked through one map.'

Was it The Demon King perhaps? 
Aguire 
That's an excellent idea. 
Mapping For UD 
#1288 posted by HeadThump [65.140.55.94] on 2004/03/01 16:29:34
I had no idea UD has single player capabilaties. I have some older levels on my harddrive I could fix up for the mod...

Great, currently the download times are insane on fileplanet. Post your email here and i'll get in contact with you. Use spam bot protection.
namedon'tspammeyousickbastards@location.com

Thanks, as 
He He 
Actually, I shouldn't have any problems downloading it, but if you want to reach me directly alanr643@msn.com should suffice.

I worked on a retexturing project this weekend, so it will be later in the week that I can rework those maps for you -- let's shoot for Thursday (and if my honey Leah Remini's butt gets any bigger, maybe even Wednesday). 
OK 
Thanks aguirRe.

HeadThump, no I've never played Demon King. I was sure it was a Quake level 'cause I remember thinking how convenient it was: I build my maps big which leads to problems but if you could transport between smaller maps without re-setting everything...

Managed to reduce the 12,000 brushes to 856, so BspEditor Merge Brushes really does work even if slowly. And it wasn't crashing, if the mouse or keyboard was used, the display simply stopped showing the number of brushes being checked. I noticed this because the hard drive light continued to flick. So, leave it alone and show some patience.

Finally, I remember a map or mod with particularly accurate Ogres - either it was the grenades being lobbed a long way or they were using rocket launchers/bazookers. Can anyone point me in the right direction please?

Regards, Mike 
Preach & Fat Controller 
Thanks, I will take a look. 
Mike 
The Demon King is a Q1SP pak, look here: http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2/partial_conversions/tdk11.zip

Can't say I liked it though, especially its inter-map handling was bad and critical gameflow paths went via unmarked func_illusionaries etc. 
Holy Hell?! 
12000 to 856?
how does that work?! 
TDK 
Mmmmm, seven years ago this was probably a great map to play. I had not seen it before.

AguiRe, I know you are very good at English, and I know the last sentence is English, and I recognise all of the words, and I know I should understand but I still don't understand "critical gameflow paths went via unmarked func_illusionaries". Is this something I, as a mapper of mediocre ability, should worry about?

What on earth is an unmarked func_illusionary? 
Brush Merging 
I haven't got a clue how the program works, but watching the disply suggests that it is taking each brush in turn and checking every other brush in the map to see if it can 'merge' the two. You have the option to merge selected brushes, those only with matching textures or those that fullfill some rather technical numerical parameters, which are way beyond my comprehension. After I had shut down all background tasks, it took about 4 hours to do.

It probably has a very clever algorithm to avoid double checking as one of the counters goes from 1 to the maximum number of brushes, and the other seems to always count to a number less than the maximum number.

The program was written by Yahn Bernier who is now on the Half Life2 (or is it Doom3) team. I have always used his editor it has the most Micrsoft feel of all that I have seen. Ooops, I might have given something away there.

Its only drawback is that the 3D window draws fairly slowly i.e. the more brushes in your map, the longer it takes to walk around, hence me always wanting to compile regularly to view the map.

Hope that helps. 
That Particular 
sentence was my [obviously] bad attempt to describe a situation in one of the tdk maps.

You had to cross a bridge by walking beside it (in thin air) and right after that, you had to "know" that you should walk right into a seemingly solid rock wall (unmarked) and thus find the path onwards to the next part of this puzzle pak.

Thus gameflow was very confusing, since you sometimes had to use invisible clipbrushes for support and then stumble through a func_illusionary brush to proceed.

Play the pak and you'll probably see what I mean. 
AguirRe 
Ah, now I understand. It is not my kind of map at all: I have never liked attempts to mimic reality e.g. trees, normal buildings, furniture etc. Also wide open spaces with nothing going on.

Like I said earlier, seven years ago this was probably the dogs but some of our current mappers have moved everything on light-years ahead of this.

The only time I can remember clip-brushes alone being used for support successfully was in a map with an Indiana Jones theme and you had to cross a chasm using a 'leap of faith', just like Indie did :-) 
Preach 
I e-mailed you re your mod but BT bounced it? 
Yes Demon King 
have some conceptually good ideas.

but the implementation was poor.

resulting in a somewhat frustrating experience. 
Mods And Sods 
Mike: yeah, typo in the e-mail in the readme there, should be andrew not andre. Hopefully that should get it through. 
The Demon King 
Am I the only one who gets reminded of bananas by the name "The Demon King"? 
Yeah 
You are. 
Demon King 
Field hockey. 
 
Google claims this is the Demon King. and I agree!

http://www.nongnit.net/khonmask/kmynn003c.JPG 
Run Out Of Ideas. 
So I've built pretty much all of my new spacebase rubicon map (q1sp), but I've run out of steam.

All I need is a decent idea for a boss combat in order to gain the silver key. Answers on a postcard.

Cheers. 
How About 
A mechanical Ridley from Metroid that does nothing except sitting in the right-hand corner looking sad, while you fire goddamned rockets into it's heart!

This might have been done before tho... 
Colored Lights... 
Hello,
I've seen on some Quake 1 screenshot that it should be possible (I say "should" because I've never found a map performing that) to colored light entities. For Example, I would like to generate a red halo around a invicibility pentagram, or a blue one around a Quad Damage item, etc.. Who knows how to do that ??
Bye 
 
those halos you see are standard GLQuake additions John Carmack added to those ents.

Colored light in standard Quake is impossible. It's added to most custom engines now, most using the .lit format. Basically you use tyrlight or another light program that supports it, and set all your lights you want colored with a 'color' key (may be differant, look in the light programs readme) set to the RGB values you want, like '255 0 255' for ugly neon purple. You'll now have a .bsp and a .lit. The map will light normally in standard Quake, or in a custom engine, as long as the .lit is in the /maps/ dir with the .bsp, it'll use the colored lights. 
Colored Liht 
and does arghlite support colored lights ? 
Jplambert 
no 
.lit 
For colored lights, you need TyrLite. You can get it from Tyrann's website here:

http://www.planetquake.com/tyrann/ 
Tyrlight... 
...also supports EVERYTHING arghlite has, loads more, so it's worth upgrading anyway. 
Colored Lights 
OK, TyrLite allows colered lights feature, I will try it as soon as possible... Just one more question...
Is it possible to add some RGB field values in QuArK entity descriptor (during light processing it should generate .lit file automatically), or do I need to write myself the .lit file, changing manually my needed RGB value...??

Thanks 
Colored Lights 
I don't know about QuArk, but I guess it would be similar, I use GTK Radiant, but you put in the key

_color

and the values

X X X

X being a number between 0 and 255

If you aren't sure about what numbers would represent which colouors, you could find that info in Photoshop/Paint Shop Pro, by selecting the color and it will tell you the RGB values,
or http://www.visibone.com/colorlab/ gives you a little 216 color dodad that allows you to do the same.

You also need to add the -lit switch to your tyrlite compile process/bat file, eg

tyrlite.exe -extra -lit yourmaphere.bsp

that will create your .lit file for you, you don't create it yourself. 
Lenny Lurker 
Thanks, for the infos... I'll check TyrLite vs QuArK possibilities as soon as possible, hoping it will works the first time.. Otherwise is it also possible to generate a "blank" .lit file and replacing color field by what I want ???

Bye... 
JPLambert 
That is an interesting way of spelling "Vondur" you have there on your Quake page :) 
Hmm 
Otherwise is it also possible to generate a "blank" .lit file and replacing color field by what I want ???

I am not entirely sure that we are both climbing the same tree, but I don't think that is the way to go, or indeed possible, if possible I am sure it would be time consuming.
Putting the key and values for the lights, in the entity dodad, in you level editor , is where it's at 
Damned Shit... 
That's not the correct typo of his name !!! He is going to kill me !!!...
OK, it's an big mistake, but I've build this website in 15 minutes yesterday by night, so be indulgent with me please...... I will correct this as son as possible... I apologies again ...
Anyway...
I've named some of the guys who help me since 1 month I started mapping... And I think there where some others will be added.. (perhaps a grouped thank should be better to avoid such error on name typo ;-)...)
As I said in a previous post, I'm a beginner in Quake mapping, and I'm currently building my first map, with my poor possibilities.. hoping it will be as good as possible..
Thanks... 
Problem... 
.. I'm not able to download TyrLite... the fileplanet website rejects me (while I suscribed last month)... Could you send me a TyrLite version ??? You have my e-mail on my scrappy website... 
Lol 
Just stick with it, and try to go through to the end, try not to ditch the map, it doesn't really matter if it's not up to other peoples standards or anything (there are some HIGH standards among this bunch) the main thing is that you enjoy what you are doing, the rest is a bonus. And you will only improve. 
It's On It's Way 
 
I Agree... 
.. I really found pleasure building my own map, and that's the most important for sure...
As I try to explain (perhaps not very clearly) on my website, it is a challenging way to improve my knowledges in mapping development.. even if I really begin in this "mapping world"...
When my first map will be released, I hope to have feedback about my work (by those who will try the map...)... more good feedback than bad will be pleasant naturally ;-))...
Thanks for TyrLite zip file... I will try it this evening...
Thanks again for your help...

Bye 
Interested Parties... 
can probably download tyrlite here but I don't even remember what version it is :)

http://www.suspenlute.com/01 
About TyrLite 
Yes, you are right, it is posible to download a TyrLite v0.9... but Lenny had sent me his 0.95 this morning... Anyway, thank for the link, there also exists some texture to download... cool
Bye 
/me Kills JPLambert 
go fix the typo! :) 
Hey! 
Don't be mean VonDrup! 
Anyone? 
Is there a maximum gradient down which an Ogre cannot move?

I have an Ogre on a ledge and I want to ecourage him to move down a slope (not stairs, just a slope.) But he don't wanna do it! He just jigs around at the top of the slope. 
Ecourage? 
Is that like e-commerce, e-tailing or e-mail i.e. transmitting courage electronically?

NO! I meant encourage. 
 
Just put a little monster jump trigger on the top edge of the slope so he pops onto the slope and is free to roam. The problem you're having is due to the slope and the flat floor meeting and the orge not wanting to cross it. 
Scampie 
Thanks. 
There Actually Is A Maximum Gradient... 
but i couldn't tell you exactly what it is, without going home and studying the source. It has to do with the ogre not wanting any of his bounding box corners to be too high off the ground, i think. 
JPLambert Or Lenny 
please email me Tyrlite 0.95 and I'll update the site. :)

suspenlute@aol.com 
Fern 
No problem. It has been sent. Also, you can download it from Tyrann's site (well FilePlanet actually), I just tried the link again, and it works fine. The file name says 0.95, at the top of the readme it says version 0.94, but scroll down the read me further to the change log stuff, and it says 0.95, It's listed as 0.95 on Tyrann's site so I guess that's what it is. 
Vondur 
Sorry about the typo error of your pseudo... I've not found time to fix it.. and sure it will be done as soon as possible, maybe this evening, or tomorrow... I apologize again... 
:) 
ok :) 
Okay... 
Well I've mirrored it now along with his nifty caulk-texture-in-q1 proggy which I forgot to add to the index, thank you ;) 
 
CAULK IN Q1???

WHAT IS THIS HERESY??? 
Hmmm 
According to LTH, I think caulk in Quake is not a good thing.. (See post 1245 to 1249, thanks to Vondur help !!!)... Some map builders don't link automatically animated texture. The turnaround is to use unused brushe faces that will be cut off by QBSP...... So the texture list is completed...With a caulking tool, you avoid all animated texture effects.... bad idea... sorry... 
Errrr 
I remember this big argument over whether "skip" in q1 is the same thing as "skip" in q3 and I thought we decided it was actually the same thing as caulk...

whatever, it's a cool program :P 
 
caulk is skip in q3.

skip in q2 is a slightly differant animal I do believe. 
And... 
... how to turnaround animated texture probelm with caulk program ??? 
JP 
that's the thing... you don't... it has absolutely nothing to do with animated textures. dunno where that came from. 
Wc Help 
how do i add the map name to the bsp so it shows up when in the +showscores? 
In Worldcraft 
go to the "map" dropdown menu at the top and select "map properties", then there will be an entry for "map title" or somesuch, just plonk the name in there. 
I figured it would be in the map properties, but there is no 'map title'... ill just add it and see if it works. 
Titles In Worldcraft 
With the copy of the quake.fgd I have, the entry you need to add the name to is "text on entering the world", which is a little misleading on worldcraft's part, but works well enough 
What Preach Said 
but if all else fails...

use the 'add' button on the map properties window to create a new key called 'message' and set it to whatever you want to title your map 
Texture Difficulties 
Hey, I'm trying to make my entry for sm72, but when I did a quick test run I noticed that quite a few of the light textures were off. They'd usually be sixteen units off or so, and this always happened on the faces of brushes that were at 45 degree angles, I think. I guess I'll fix it manually, but does anyone know why that happens/how to fix it? 
Try... 
qbsp -oldaxis

i'm not sure which compilers support this, but i know treeqbsp and its variants do. 
Wasn't It 
-alternateaxis? 
Axis Options 
It's -oldaxis in all TreeQBSP/DuBSP variants as metl says, -alternateaxis in wqbsp and TxQBSP doesn't need this option at all.

All above applies when using WorldCraft 1.6, possibly when using other versions or editors too. 
Help With Texmex 
I have used Texmex on and off for ages. I built some new wads last week (just extracts of other wads, no new textures) and went to edit one of these today and Texmex no longer displays!

A window opens and the titile bar clearly shows the wad I have opened but the window is a blank white screen.

Anyone had this before? 
I've Actually Had 
this problem too in the last couple of days, since I've been testing a lot of texture stuff.

TexMex seems to have problems, especially with wad3 files and the palettes. I previously thought that TexMex should be doing this right, but now I'm not so sure anymore.

I've seen it trashing texture entries when converting to wad3 format. Mike, the wad you're opening might be corrupt. If you wish, you could send the zipped wad to me and I'll try to see what's wrong.

I'm currently working on a wad utility DupWad, that can delete textures from a specific wad that already exist with the same name in other wads. 
AguirRe 
Aha! It is obviously the 13th March Texmex bug that disables all versions of Texmex?

The .wad file in question loads OK in my BspEditor and is usable, and Texmex will not load any of my other .wad files.

I am using Wally and AdQuedit instead so it is not the end of the world. But Texmex was my preferred utility.

Thanks for your offer and what on earth are you doing with the weather over there? The temperature is set to rise to +4C on Wednesday and that's when I land. It'll be like a giant Slushpuppy up there. 
The Red Stuff 
you see coming down the slopes is just some *lava we put there for your enjoyment ...

I'd still appreciate the zipped wad to see what's causing the TexMex problem. 
Wad Is On Its Way... 
And by the way, I am watching a program called "Avalanche Alert" on UK TV right now! 
Curve And Arch 
Hello,
Where can I found an "easy" mathematical description to understand clearly how works Bezier Curve and Arch tool shaper ?? In QuArK, this feature is really to "lightly described" to have a complete understood of the stuff...
Thanks 
Gorgot My Last Post... 
I've found what I was looking for with
http://www.moshplant.com/direct-or/bezier/math.html
Bye... 
More Texture Problems 
Though of a different variety. I recently downloaded the quake 2 wad off of RPG's .wad page, and when I loaded it up in WC the textures looked very odd. When I loaded the wad file up in Texmex it looked fine. I emailed RPG about this and he wasn't sure what the deal was either. I don't really know how to describe the way the textures looked... fucked up should suffice. Does anybody know whats up with this file?
http://www.spawnpoint.org/wads/q2texwad.zip 
 
open up the wad in texmex, delete the palette. let it convert the textures to Quake palette and save the wad (or save it as something differant if you want). I don't see any differance myself... but anyway, after doing this, the textures will appear normal in WC. 
And To Be Clearer... 
by 'the palette' I mean, the texture at the bottom of the wad named palette. 
Thanks 
that worked perfectly, thanks for your help. 
Modeling For Ultimate Deathmatch 
#1283 posted by LTH I can make technical (ie. not monster) models.

Great, did you get my email?

as 
 
#1283 posted by LTH: "I'm quite busy right now though" 
Maping For UD 
Not my question, I read that part. Did you recieve my email? So, I know I have a valid email to contact you with.

as 
 
I got one from you a while back, yes. 
About Gamma Field... 
Hello,

I would like to have further information about gamma field use.. I've heard some of you calling about this feature but it remains mysterious for me... Is there someone who can explain me the stuff ???

Thanks 
Bey 
Help! Someone causes gammabusters.... 
MadFox 
I've read your post 742 in screenshot and beta thread and it seems you used this feature... how to deal with this stuff ?? Can you breafly explain me ??? 
Pale Moon 
Screenshots of Quake always look dark and blurry, so I load them in PaintShopPro and then use the Adjust => Gamma => 1.80
By doing this the whole picture becomes more bright to look at.
I find this better then the original, because it compensates the dimm colours of screenshots.

If you mean a game option in the Quake-engine for -gamma field use- , I am fishing with Cassini... 
MadFox 
Oh, that's it... I thought it was a mapping feature or a compilation option that increases global light level.. (like -light option with TyrLite tool)... I've made this manipulation using ULead Pals2Go software (Photo modification and morphing software), but the result is not very good (see my web site at http://lambert.jeanphilippe.free.fr : the screenshots are still very dark...) anyway..
I think I have to made more test to find a turnaround of this problem..
Thanks 
Don't Listened To My Babling... 
you could be right for the mapping feather, which I don't know...

I was only joking about it, that's why I can't see the difference between Neptune & Saturn.

PaintShopPro has a trial version, it could entlighten your screenshots hughly! 
... 
hehe.

i like the idea of "enlightened screenshots". 
MadFox 
I also have a PSP version, but I have to install it.. so I will make a try to "enlight" my screenshot at my next release.... Thanks for the advice... 
Q1 Tools Update 
at http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k . Main features are local minlights (delay 4) in Light, wildcards in wad specifications in compilers and a new wad tool for deleting duplicate textures. Please also see readmes for more details.

Any comments are welcome. 
Message During Game Start 
Hello,
I would Like to add a start message (Like map title or developper name, etc..) in the Quake console during start up (or during map loading).. Who knows how to do that ??
Thanks 
Message 
In Worldspawn, add a key "message" and add what you want to say in the value field.

(No quotation marks of course) 
Message... 
OK, this generates the required message on one line... but if I want to add more than one line messages, do I need to add key "message" as many as required lines ??? 
 
you use /n, which specifies 'new line'

example
"message" "My map/nBy: Me!"

It may be \n... haven't ever used it myself, but pretty sure it's /n 
Scampie 
All right, I will make the test this evening... Thanks for the info... 
Newline 
is \n and if the map is SP, you shouldn't use them because then save games might not work. 
Need Registerd EntEd 
I have a program called EntEd for Quake which is supposed to allow me to edit the entities in a Quake map...

Unfourtunately, the unregesterd version will not edit .bsp files... only .map files.... and the home page for the program is long dead, and I'm sure it's no longer being developed... Does anyone have a registration key for it or know where to get the registered version?

Or, any other *small* uncomplicated program that will allow me to edit entities in a .bsp file? 
Gunter: Adquedit 
ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/pc/games/idgames2/utils/graphics_edit/resource_browsers/adquedit_v13.zip can extract the entities out of a bsp, and into a file that can be edited in notepad. The interface is a little clunky, but it's managable. It's pretty small too : - ) 
Or... 
you can just open the bsp in wordpad and copy out the entity data -- it's in plain text near the end. Then save it as .map and recompile the bsp using -onlyents.

(or edit the bsp in wordpad and save it -- this shouldn't work, but i've tried it before and it seemed to work anyway. I don't know why :) 
Or Better Yet, 
use quark (any version).

it will allow you to open up a bsp file into the editor. you cannot actually modify any geometry, including bmodels, but you can edit all entities. 
Necros 
metlslime is going hard core, man. Next he'll forego editors all together and write out the coordinates of his next level by hand ;) 
Well... 
I did have to use wordpad to align textures on my first map, since Thred didn't have texture alignment. 
And I Dare 
pat myself on the back for being able to align three point bevel cuts with GTKRadiant. False pride. 
Strange Error 
Hello,

I have a strange error during holes creation... I use a platform where I add some holes whith an Hollow Maker entity. I've created 6 holes and the TxQBSP tool compiles the map without any problems... When I had the 7th hole, here is the error message I found:

SubdivideFace: Didn't split the polygon near (5112 1083 -992), metal2_5

I don't understand why this error appears, furthermore there is no polygon at these coordonates !!

Is there anyone who have an idea about it ??

Thanks... 
JPL 
Do not use hollow tool! EVER! 
About Hollow Tool 
So how can I create hole(s) in wall(s) without using Hollow Maker ??? This is described like this in QuArK user guide... 
JPL 
You can, like build the wall around the hole if you get what I mean. If your wall is to have a square hole, you would create your wall with 4 brushes, more complex hole(s) would require more complex construction 
JPL 
You can use hollow tool but onlu on the simple brushes and with care. Try making holes manually. That's much more safer. 
For Example... 
I'm currently trying to build a platform with at least 10 holes in order to have a pentagram-like top view.. This very hard to perform a good texture alignement with at least 4 angles values (36, 54, 18, and 72 degrees !!!) I have to use hollow maker with cube and wedge to build this... So what is the good method ?

PS: I found the answer about my first question in AguirRe Quake Tool Tips.. Thanks AguirRe !!! 
JPL 
the only good method is making it all manually using edge & vertex manipulation and manual texture alignment. otherwise you'll die fighting compile errors. 
 
jpl do yourself a favor and learn a proper editor 
Vondur 
OK, thanks for the advice... It's going to be very long to build my "pentagram platform" but if it's the only way to build it, there is no other choice for me....
Bye... 
"jpl Do Yourself A Favor And Learn A Proper Editor" 
it's not what you use it's how you use it. 
Gibbie & Phait 
Yes, sure that I make some big mistakes with my mapping tool (QuArK today) But I'm pretty young with this "job"... and like beginner, I'm less experimented than all of you... so please, don't be cruel with me... I'm just looking for advices to improve me...
Perhaps my questions are stupid (for you), but just remind when you start to build maps... Didn't you used the "getting started" file and made (lot of) trys before becoming "pros" ??? I discovered QuArK at the beginning of February... so please be tolerant...
Thanks... 
Yes 
gibbie, fek off u meanie basid! :) 
Jpl 
btw, join #terrafusion channel on irc.gamesurge.net and get hotline mapping support from all of us :) 
Vondur.. 
... YOU ARE A NOBLE MAN .... 
Good That You 
found the answer to your SubdivideFace question, try looking first in the ToolTips before posting. If you can't find the answer, just post here and maybe we can improve the contents to cover more ground.

And there's nothing wrong with QuArK, I've been using it myself for a long time. It's got its fair share of quirks and problems just like most other editors (or software in general). 
AguirRe 
You are right, It must be a reflex to have a look at the tool tips before posting some questions.. I'm going to print it... ;-) 
Vondur 
Sorry, unable to connect irc.gamesurge.net due to our office network fire-wall that doesn't authorize the connection... See you soon on this forum...
Bye.. 
 
it's not what you use it's how you use it.

Not always the case. QuArK (if I remember rightly) uses floating point gridvalues and can have trouble aligning complicated brushes to the grid, which can cause all kinds of problems, no matter how good a mapper you are. I know this was definitely the case with Qoole, but I seem to remember gibbie himself having similar problems with QuArK back with SM32. 
JPLambert 
I think you misunderstood what I was saying - I was being supportive of *you* ;) 
It's Not What You Use It's How You Use It 
By that logic I should be able to create quake maps using only two marbles, a pack of sugar free gum, and an 8-track recording of Scorpions - Rock You Like A Hurricane. But not even MacGuyver could do that. 
MacGyvver could, but only with the help of some TV magic and lots of retakes, and he would need at least one rifle or pistol to [ab]use as a hammer or trowel or other ungunlike usage. 
Right, 
Just like a good driver can win a race no matter what car he drives. 
Whatever 
We're talking level editors here, not other shit. Granted some editors ARE better than others but bottom line who gives a fuck what anyone uses. If they want to use something you're shoving down their throats, they'll use it either in due time or never. 
Old Quake1 Saying 
Can't they take the axe out of it? 
 
"MacGyvver could, but only with the help of some TV magic and lots of retakes, and he would need at least one rifle or pistol to [ab]use as a hammer or trowel or other ungunlike usage."

Speedmap theme: MacGuyver. 
Hmmmm, 
I wish it was
"It's not how you use it, it's what you use",
then maybe I would be good at mapping, but alas 
Phait... 
It was not against your post... I understood what you wanted to say... I apologize if you were "hurt"... but gibbie post seems a little bit more "ironical"... I'm here to find mapping help, not meany remarks about my poor knowledges on mapping tool....
Anyway... I've no problem to deal with "bad boys".. ;-D 
Hurt? 
Heheh.. no. 
Yes 
as long as your support tends to suppose... 
Again One Problem 
Hello,
A new problem appeared to my map.. While playing, suddenly I fall down throught the ground... I take a look at aguirRe Quake Tool tips, and I checked all brushes and texture alignements... (as recommended) Same problem remains.. I have to make a try typing "pointfile" but it appears that TxQBSP didn't generate a .pts file.. Sure I missed some option in my QuArK configuration, but I don't know really what to do... Is there a noble guy, or more, who can help me ??
Thanks.. 
Again One Problem 
Hello,
A new problem appeared to my map.. While playing, suddenly I fall down throught the ground... I take a look at aguirRe Quake Tool tips, and I checked all brushes and texture alignements... (as recommended) Same problem remains.. I have to make a try typing "pointfile" but it appears that TxQBSP didn't generate a .pts file.. Sure I missed some option in my QuArK configuration, but I don't know really what to do... Is there a noble guy, or more, who can help me ??
Thanks.. 
Sorry For Double Post... 
 
Hm 
probably there's an error brush in that area.
try rebuilding the floor there.
and sigh, quark is evile.... 
Yet Done.. 
I tried this: I added brush platform on the "base-ground", and I carefully aligned the texture with my pillars, and walls... Same effect.. Furthermore I don't have any warning or error during TxQBSP compilation... It only misses the pts file to test pointfile command in the Quake console... I also tried a full building (TxQBSP + RVis + TyrLite) instead of fast one (TxQBSP + TyrLite)... no effect.... 
Hm 
check if the floor brushes have proper textures. i.e. no tex mix like floor+sky or floo+liquid on one brush. that should give an error in compiler, but still check it... 
Right 
I'll check if the texture applied is the same on all brushe's face.. It's perhaps not the case... And how to generate a pts file ??? 
Jpl 
it gets generated only if the map is leaked... 
Vondur 
Could you explain me a little bit more pleae ?? I'm not sure to understand clearly "leaked map" concept.... 
JPLambert 
You'll only get a pts file if the maps leaks, i.e. there is somehow an opening from an entity inside to the void outside. Falling through a corrupt floor brush inside the map doesn't cause a leak.

Send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it. 
Jpl 
Quick Fix 
Make the bad brush a func_wall. 
&* 
probably off grid brushes creating errors. quark does that a lot. use a better editor :) 
OK... 
.. I'm not able to check anything now: I'm at office :( grrrr...
So I'll take a look this evening trying each solutions you gave me... hoping at least one will works...
aguirRe, I will send you zipped map and wad if I don't find any turnaround... thanks for your contribution..
Thanks a lot everybody.. 
I Forgot To 
mention that you don't need a pts file to find the problem here; you fall through it ... The dotted line would probably only pass through this brush anyway.

Also note that in many cases, it's not the actual penetrable brush that is the culprit. Often it's a neighbour brush or in some cases even a bad brush junction that's not in the immediate neighbourhood.

It can certainly be a challenge to fix. I'd appreciate the map even if you do find a cure; there's always something new to learn from it. 
AguirRe 
I will do my best to solve the problem myself in a first time... If I find the problem, I'll send you a mail for further explanations if you like... or a post here... anyway...If I can't solve the problem this evening, I'll send you the files.. hoping it's only a mistake coming from me and not from the tool...
I will see this in a few hours now... 
I Dont Remember.. 
if the player start is stuck in a floor brush if it falls through or is just stuck... maybe. 
Player Start... 
.. placed too near a brush make the player stucked.. and a possible HOM problem as well... The player can be blocked partially inside the brush and can't moove, he can just rotate left, right up or down... but walking is impossible... I made this mistake in my first trys... 
HOM Only For Scrags... 
I got the same problem. I found a solution, by sealing the the brush over the HOM-creating area with another one. I don't know if it works with a floor. 
About Post 1490-1491 
I solved my problem, thanks everybody who helped me and gave me the good lucky "inspiration"...
In fact, it was a minor problem not detected by TxQBSP... (I don't know why, but it seems to be normal..)..
I had two brushes (a platform and a wall) orthogonaly placed, enclosed each other by a corner of each one face... It results in a "one dot separating line" between floor and wall... (don't know if it's clear...) TxQBSP didn't see this and never found any warnings or errors... (No holes found, no off-grid brushes, no bad aligned textures, etc... TxQBSP works correctly because the map seemed to be correctly build... ) but during the game, the player fall throught the floor !!! The map leak... shit ....

So after many trys, many investigations, walking slowly to detect clearly were is the leak.... falling many times, dying a lot as well... I finally found it...

Lucky I was trying to increase a little the size of the 2 brushes, in order to overlap each other... and the miracle occurs: no more leak, it works !!!
Sure it was a beginner error, but happy I am to find it by myself...
Bye... 
:) 
do not use quark :> 
I Try To Do... 
... my best with what I have... But QuArK seems not to be as bad as someone think... QuArK required perhaps more care than other tools during mapping effort... Perhaps you only need to be more precise using it... Furthermore, it is a pretty good editor to start mapping with... that's my beginner opinion... 
Good To Hear 
that you fixed the problem. However, there can be more such clipping errors and they might not be as obvious as this one. E.g. walking into a corner and falling into a position where you'll have to noclip to get out.

Look in my ToolTips in the "Hull Explanation" section for more info. To make the clipping errors more visible, add the qbsp options -hull 1 -solid -noents and watch out for HOMs in the map.

The HOMs indicate areas where the compiler has problems with the player clipping hull. 
AguiRe: 
i've noticed problems with using clip brushes in a bmodel. It seems like it ought to work; is there anything you can tell us about why it doesn't? How easy would it be to add this functionality to qbsp? (i know, i could probably look at the source myself, but it's late and i'm tired and you might know off the top of your head.) 
AguirRe 
Good idea you have !!! Thanks a lot for this advice.. I'l try it as soon as possible...
Another more question: do you think these kind of problems are coming from QuArK bug (especially during map file writting) or from TxQBSP compilation that pass throught it ?? 
Metlslime 
In brush.c there is a specific check for texture clip in the visible hull (0), same area as the check for liquid brushes in clip hulls (1/2).

I don't know why it's there, my assumption would be that the engines don't like it (maybe you could check that).

Anyway, why is this a problem at all? 
JPLambert 
I didn't quite understand your explanation of the cause of the problem so I can't say with the information at hand.

This is one of the reasons why I asked for the map, then I can see for myself what the problem is, a possible cure and if there are other issues that you haven't spotted yet.

I'd be glad to help, but I need the zipped map+wad to investigate further. 
AguirRe 
OK, sorry for my poor english... I have to improve it too ;-)
I'll try to send you a zipped map+wad file as soon as possible.. (next Monday later...) but it will be the corrected map... I didn't saved the corrupt one... :(
Anyway, I hope you can give me advices about my mapping way.. that may be not as good as "pros" can do...
Thanks... 
JPLambert 
Your English is fine. Your syntax and word choice is intelligeable to any English native. I think aquirRe was referring to the technical nature of your explanation. Believe me, you sound like James Joyce compared to an unmentioned else person. 
HeadThump 
Oh... it's great for me to hear this... thanks a lot...