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Mapping Help
This is the place to ask about mapping problems, techniques, and bug fixing, and pretty much anything else you want to do in the level editor.

For questions about coding, check out the Coding Help thread:
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Your map will be sealed by 'shader not found' textures, as far as the compiler and Quake are concerned it usually will be a missing texture with no name... Basically the worst that will happen is you'll get some warnings in QBSP and in Quake about a missing texture, but the map will be sealed just fine.

You likely will want to clean that up some time. To do so in Radiant, in the texture browser, go to Tools, Find/Replace..., leave the Find section blank, click in the Replace section, and then click on some other texture in the browser. Click ok and you'll have replaced all those blank "shader not found" textures with an actual texture.

Your google search was correct, Q1 has no 'caulk'. I don't know why you'd have it in your .wad either, it would simply be a texture with no special features in Q1. Possibly the .wad was made by who normally did Q3 mapping and used some of the Radiant features that automatically placed caulk on unseen brush faces... which isn't really that helpful in Q1. 
Trying to map for Quake using q3bsp? In that case, caulk definitely does something.

A quake.wad would not be very useful in that case though. 
Is there a popular guide for new mappers, especially those who are new to quake?

I'd like to get started making mp maps. Last year I made a simple boxmap with trenchbroom and some compiling gui but cannot find the tutorial I used.

Also, what do other map or bsp formats offer? What I mean is, how good is ezquake :D? 
Video Tut - 
Thanks guys, it was the qwiki guide I used before :o 
Does This Tool Work For Anyone?

I tried with latest java 32 and 64 bit, even ran from command line and it doesn't open for me. 
We all read the same threads here, there's no reason to crosspost when there's only like ten active threads on the whole site. 
So I'm tired and maybe this is obvious ... is it possible to have a trigger_once that starts disabled (won't respond to player touches) and then has a way that I can turn it on later? 
Very Much So, 
Than had a really good tutorial on how to do complex and/if/or trigger system using nail shooters. No idea how to find it though. 
make that trigger_once a trigger_multiple targetting a shooter that that shoots a your trigger_once.

Put a func_wall in between, kill it when your trigger is needed. 
or: include a progs.dat that actually does that, and skip all that nonsense 
It's more nonsense to include a progs.dat just for that feature if there are means and ways to achieve it within the standard code.

Most basic hack: info_notnull brush entity with a "use" "trigger_once" field and a targetname. Becomes a regular trigger when being targeted by any other entity. 
Tutorials On Triggering A Trigger_once is the negke way of doing it.

If you need to be able to turn the trigger on and off multiple times, you need plus the follow-up pingback in the comments. 
How does one get around the precache issue for trigger_once or trigger_multiple? The first link from preach uses "trigger_multiple" as the example but I can't get it work without crashing out due to precaching ... what am I missing? 
Did You Read The Article In Full? 
The first example is a monster_ogre, to illustrate the limits of the technique. Make sure you're actually using a trigger_once classname instead. If you're still getting crashes and there's no trace of monster_ogre then can you say which model causes the error? 
Yep, it looks like it's something to do with trigger_multiple ...

I currently have a door entity targetting the info_notnull and when the door is activated, boom, it crashes.

I get the same crash using a trigger_once or triggering it from another actor other than the door.

It must be something simple but I don't see it yet... 
Aaaaand never mind! I had a...

"sounds" "3"

...key on the info_notnull for some reason. Deleting that makes everything work.

Thanks a lot for the help! Excuse the derp... 
Sounding Off 
That's good, I did wonder if it was that, but I thought missing sounds were just a warning not a crash. 
Oh, Yeah 
Actually reading the error, it's the other way round, trying to precache something late, rather than trying to use something without caching it first. For models, both are fatal but for sounds the latter can be survived. It is possible to get sounds indirectly - set the noise keys with the paths to the desired sounds. Of course, you need some other entity to do the caching for you or you get warnings and no sounds... 
Is There Really No Way To Group Brushes In Netradiant? 
There is no func_group. It's a huge pain working without this. 
the .map format doesn't have native support for groups, so you have to hack it with func_group and a compatible compiler if you want it.

you can add func_group to your entities.ent file (usually hidden in something like E:\GtkRadiant\ 1.5.0\\id1)

<group name="func_group" color="0 .5 .8">
Used in editor to group structural brushes. Added to worldspawn by QBSP. Not a real entity.

stick that in with the other brush entities (find some other entity like func_wall or something, and add it after it's </group> tag). then you can make func_group like any other brush entity in Radiant, and select all their parts with ctrl+alt+e

you'll want a qbsp version that supports it, otherwise it will be compiled into a brush entity that Quake won't recognize. I know ericw's latest tyrlight will have support 
ericw's latest tyrutils I meant! been fussing over tylight too much lately... :D 
Thank you so much! It seems to be working fine with hmap2 and ezquake.

I'm curious though why Quake has to recognize it. Isn't it really just for convenience moving stuff around in the editor? 
To the editor, a func_group is just an entity with brushes attached (like a door, button, etc.) These are normally treated specially by qbsp (compiled as a bmodel) and the engine (looks for qc code with the classname to set up the entity behaviour).

But since func_group is a special thing just for mapper convenience, qbsp has special code to merge it into the world, and the engine never sees it. 
Isn't There A White Fullbright In Quake Palette? 
When I use 254 as seen here texmex turns it brown like 255, and that's how it appears on the map. 
Of course I meant here: 
254 should work. Is it broken in all engines or just some engines? 
oh wait, it sounds like it might be a texmex bug (if the error occurs inside texmex too) 
btw i didn't write the code in even though it claims I did. That's not now i write single-line comments :) 
My Favourite Part Of That Article... how they managed to name all 16 rows without repeating the word "brown" 
Get Q3map2 To Not Strip Lights? 
Hey there, I've heard about the q3map2 option -keepLights that is supposed to stop the compiler from stripping out light entities. Though, it never seems to work for me whenever I try it, what's the most correct usage? 
That is a worldspawn switch 
RE: Pyro 
So what should I do to use it? What process do I stick this thing on? 
Sunlight Color? 
What about worldspawn's "_sunlight_color" key? I'm using tyrutils v0.15 qbsp, vis and light, getting only bland white sunlight. It seems to ignore that key. I tried 64 192 255 and it's still white. I'm on Worldcraft 3.3, but that shouldn't matter. What am I'm missing? 
Console Output 
Sorry, I'm mapping for Quake 1. Here's light.exe output:

---- light / TyrUtils v0.15 ----
running with 4 threads
BSP is version 29
Colored light entities detected: .lit output enabled.
4 entities read, 0 are lights.
Lighting Completed.

lightdatasize: 1989
0 switchable light styles
Writing BSP version 29
0.0 seconds elapsed

The level shows sunlight, but it's always white, no matter how I set _sunlight_color 
Make sure to copy the both the .lit and .bsp to your maps directory, if you're compiling in a different directory.
Does your engine have .lit support? Most do, except the original winquake/glquake. 
Guys, think I pulled the trigger too soon. For some reason, when I ran light outside Worldcraft it worked. Sunlight is blue now. My bad. 
Gotcha, Ericw 
In order to eliminate unnecessary files, I was deleting the .lit
Gotta copy the .lit along with the .bsp 
_sunlight2 On Tyrutils V0.15 ? 
I noticed light.txt doc doesn't say anything about this key, but I see you talking about it sometimes.

Are you compiling your lights using tyrann's light.exe? Anyone setting _sunlight2 and/or _sunlight2_color? 
Yeah, Sorry 
I made a fork of tyrutils with various new features, _sunlight2 is only in that. I haven't made a proper release, so it's just buried in various forum threads and hard to find :-(

The latest snapshot is from may 1: 
Does this version have _sunlight2? Because it's doing nothing for my map. Do you happen to have some example map showing its effect? My map has a central yard where sunlight hits. I was counting on _sunlight2 to cast some sunlight on the "outside" walls as well. 
Or Better Yet 
Take this test .MAP:

It has:
"_sunlight" "300"
"_sun_mangle" "180 -90 0"
"_sunlight_color" "255 64 64"
"_sunlight2" "200"
"_sunlight2_color" "64 64 255"

I was expecting to see a red square in the middle and all the other walls in a blue tint, but only the red square appears. What am I doing wrong? 
Yep, that build should do _sunlight2.
Only "sky" textures emit sunlight, just texture the outer box with "sky1" or any sky texture and I think that will fix it 
Hmm Actually 
ignore that, didn't notice that you already had a sky textured skylight.

I think what's happening is, the _sunlight2 is working, it's just really dim because there it's a fairly narrow opening to the sky. A _sunlight2 value of 200 will light up a surface to a value of 200 only if it has an unobstructed 180-degree view of the sky. Try setting it to 1000 and you'll get some blue light on the walls. (this will make outdoor areas with more of a view of the sky too bright, though) 
Really? I thought _sunlight2 worked more like an "ambient" minimum light to the "outside" faces, ones facing a sky textured face in any angle (maybe inside the same portalled volume?). I mean, there is ambient light for all surfaces and _sunlight2 for "outside" surfs. Did I get it wrong?

If the surface must have an unobstructed 180 degree view of the sky, the floor in this test level shouldn't be affected by _sunlight2? 
Been seeing this kind of explanation:

"�_sunlight2&#8242; and �_sunlight_color2&#8242; to make a sort of outdoor minlight. The light utility creates an array of minlight casting suns in a circle and sort of floods outdoor areas."

I don't get what this "array of suns in a circle" look like. Not sure about the effect I should get as well. 
bjptools has a _sunlight2 that works like you describe.

maybe I should have named my version something other than _sunlight2 because the effect is quite different. I wanted to not just do a simple minlight based on sky visibility.

Here's a screenshot:

The soft shadows on the main, pink, sunlight is a different feature (_sunlight_penumbra). You can see the difference in _sunlight2 in the shadow of the taller tower: in the top (bjptools) screenshot, the shadowed area is just an even shade of gray. In the bottom screenshot (my modified _sunlight2) the gray areas have more shading depending on how much a given spot can see the sky. 
@ericw: It Works! 
You were right. I set _sunlight2 to 2k to start noticing some change. A value of 20k turned affected surfaces into washed white.

Also, I need ambient occlusion, so I'll keep using your code :P

@ericw - WIP 
Here's my first attempt using your light tool. This is supposed to be moon lit, night time.

First, the fullbright image:

Now, ericw's magic:

Not sure if it's gonna be night. I'm gonna light the rooms and then try daylight / night.

I used here:
_dirt 1
_sunlight 350
_sunlight_color 64 184 255
_sunlight2 5000
_sunlight2_color 64 184 255
_sunlight_penumbra 4
_sun_mangle 180 -90

Lighted with -extra4 -anglescale 0

The level is very vertical. There's a floor below, with ugly shadows. I had to help with two point lights scaled 0.1, value 50, no falloff, same color as the sun.

Still working... 
Magic Is Right... 
That's a good looking scene! What texture set are you using? 
My Own Textures 
These are all my own :) I intend to release them along with the level. It's intended to be 1x1 deathmatch, but I see Qonquer potential on it. We'll see. 
Your Textures... 
Reminds me of piranesi counter strike map, the original, not any source release. 
Looks Great! 
I guess _sunlight2 5000 may cause problems with overly bright lighting if you have any rooms with a bigger area of sky visible.

Maybe I will look at some kind of exponential exposure thing for _sunlight2 so that rooms with a narrow strip of sky like yours can light up a decent amount, without washing out fully outdoor areas, like gb's city I posted earlier. 
That Would Make It Even Better 
... but is not my only problem. Take a look:

This is what happens when I set ambient light to 50: there is the brown texture color where black shadow should be (look where the crosshair is). There is "ambient light" where _sunlight2 doesn't reach (casting shadow).

For now, I just gave up on ambient light. But how to solve it properly? Or is it nonsense?

I know there is _minlight for brush entities. But should I turn a massive amount of brushes into some entity? What are the cons? 
the brown is probably grey, it just looks brown compared to the blue lighting around it.

Can you specify R G B for the ambient instead of just one number? 
I thought there'd be a worldspawn key for minlight color, but looks like it's only available on brush entities (_mincolor). Will add that to the todo list. 
Minlight Wouldn't Help 
There is "external" ambiance, lit by moon, but there will be also rooms lit by orange lamps. I couldn't pick just one _mincolor.

@metlslime I think it's not gray, it's just the texture pixels lit by worldspawn "ambient light"

Anyways, I turned that whole wall into a func_wall and set _minlight to 50 and _mincolor to the same blue moonlight:

Looks like mincolor lit _sunlight2 shadows. But there's still unlit faces (facing down) and I don't know why. They are part of the same func_wall. 
use minlight style (4) on lights with the colour you want. 
@ericw, No, You Are Right. 
I should think about the global "ambient light" in terms of "shadow color". If so, I should:

1- set the sun and sun2 to get this moonlight;
2- set worldspawn to a minimum level of the same blue tone: the color of the shadows;
3- warm interiors up with yellow lamps.

So, all I need is a worldspawn _mincolor, as you said. 
@ericw, No, You Are Right. 
I should think about the global "ambient light" in terms of "shadow color". If so, I should:

1- set the sun and sun2 to get this moonlight;
2- set worldspawn to a minimum level of the same blue tone: the color of the shadows;
3- warm interiors up with yellow lamps.

So, all I need is a worldspawn _mincolor, as you said. 
@necros - Thanks! 
Yes, the local minlights are doing the trick. Thank you all and I'm ending this flood. 
Unlit Brush 
I need a brush that is not affected by any light entity. Is it possible? 
Black Texture 
Unless You Mean Fullbright 
In which case - external .bsp model? 
Fullbright you could do with adding "light" "255" to the entity (TyrLite only) 
No Fullbright, More A _minlight Only 
@Kinn, an external brush model should work. Have to learn how to do it, though. 
External Internal Models 
What someone who isn't as lazy as me need to do is write a "re-internaliser" compile tool. It would run as an extra step on your toolchain.

The tool would seek out entities with references to external BSPs in their model field. You would feed the tool the path to your mod directory (or some other directory with the same paths). It would then search starting from the mod directory for the external models the map is referencing.

For each external model it successfully locates, it creates a copy of the BSP data from that file in the list of internal models within the map. Then it updates any external references to that model with references to the internal model. Voil�, all the benefits of a separately compiled external model, but without needing multiple files hanging about. 
Or Alternatively 
a way to selectively export internal models into external bsp files so you've got external bsps with nice matching lighting and the ability to see how they look in the editor. 
... but I managed to light the scene the way I wanted. Thanks! 
Mapping Quarrel 
I've got a strange problem with my map.
I added several new entities to my progs.dat and gave them all their own qc file. I compressed the map to a pak file and added all there is to it, sound, progs, gfx.
First time I played the map on the pak file I was drenched with warnings "SV_StartSound not precached".

Now two weeks later I play the map again and there are no signs of warning. Did I put Chtulla back to sleep meanwhile? I wish I knew how.

Another thing that's bugging me is a model that has only a stand, walk, run and death pose. I made it so that it doesn't attack untill I trigger it with a button.

Unfortenately the model doesn't respond to the trigger. But if I replaced it to another part of the map nothing is wrong and it resigns the button well.

The model is placed in a shape of lights with func_info's, but that can't interfere with the model or button. 
Someone Help Him Already! 
The map needs to see the light of day! Those are some funny new enemies. And if someone is at it, see if you can fix the projectile origin of the chaingun dude's attack as well as change it to nail bursts.

Madfox: btw. clip brushes do not count towards the marksurfaces limit, they only affect the number of clipnodes. So you should be able to add more clips without running into compiler troubles. 
Also Sended Ijed, But He's Darting /:P 
I was afraid the player wouldn't see the nails before the impact of shooting starts. Also fixed the clip brush crossing.

Only thing I don't get is the spinning weel model.

First it was a static entity that just turned and exploded.
Then I made it an entity with only the basic stand/walk/run/attack and die frames, but no moving.
Then I added effects 1 and watched it in a frozen state that starts atacking with a trigger_once.

It all went right in a map apart, so when I imported it I couldn't believe it didn't work.
And my disbelive only grew, when I put it somewhere else in the map and it works just fine.

Seems my entity is catching a hold on me! 
8==~ `====D 
Send the source files to me, SVP. My Hotmail is "lordasaki". 
Texture Color Shift 
Can someone help me out? I need recolored versions of the textures wmet3_1 and w3_4 (blue metal w/ faces) that match the gold (rune) key tone, but I can't seem to get it right. Converting them to the palette after the color shift always makes them look bad... 
Problem solved, thanks to otp. 
This can be done in wally.

Duplicate the wmet3_1 wmet3_3 wmet3_4 images
and rename.

1. Right-mouse click in 'Image List' box and select Create New Image.

2. Enter Name wmet3_5 for example. A new blank image window appears, CLOSE this edit window.

3. Right-click mouse on wmet3_1 (the thumb, not an open edit window)
and select Copy.

4. Right-click mouse on wmet3_5 (the thumb, not an open edit window)
and select 'Paste Over'. Pasting over on a blank thumb (or existing
image thumb) ensures a perfect copy.

Now Edit The Duplicates.

1. Open texture by double-clicking a thumb, and mouse-click the
Eye Dropper over a blue pixel.
This will auto-enter the Index Number.

2. Hover mouse over at the gold range (96 - 111) to the corresponding
colorbox position and remember the Index Number shown at botom.

3. Go to 'Colors' - 'Translate Colors' and enter only the 'Destination'
index number that was remembered.
(The 'Source Pixels' was auto-entered with Eye Dropper)

4. Mouse click on image to see change.

Try converting just the blue range. It should be good enough and take
less than 2 minutes per image. 
MarkV Fog 
I wanna use fog and r_skyfog in MarkV. I tried to set it on command line, tried autoexec.cfg, but it doesn't work. The only way to set these vars are from console. What do I have to do to enter my map already fogged? 
for fog, adding a worldspawn key like this should work in most engines:
"fog" "density red green blue"

For r_skyfog, there are a few options:

-if you're using a mod like quoth, you can use an entity like info_command to run "r_skyfog x" in the player's console when they load the map. See:

-otherwise, if you can have your map install in its own mod folder, you can add the "r_skyfog" setting to autoexec.cfg or quake.rc. Preach recommends using quake.rc for mod-specifc settings, but it's not just an empty file like autoexec.cfg, see: 
On that 1st '3.' it should read...

(the thumb, or an open edit window) 
The fog key works! Also, r_skyfog can be set in a mod's autoexec.cfg.
Very few items last in my to-do list now. 
Don't put it in autoexec, put it in quake.rc like in the tombofpreach link above 
I'm Obedient 
Bookmarked The Tome of Preach. Good reading. Though I ended up sticking to the default r_skyfog value and setting the "fog" worldspawn key in my map. 
Hey guys,

Where can I find some skyboxes for q1 that are more interesting than the default?

Vondur & OTP 
thanks guys 
How Do I Create Colored Lighting In My Maps? 
I'm a new Quake mapper and I can't seem to figure out what I need to do in order to get colored lighting. I'm using the Jackhammer editor if that is any help. Thanks in advance. 
-Use a key/value on a light entity like "_color" "255 0 0" for solid red
-The light compiler needs to support it, use one like:
-Make sure a .lit file is generated along with the .bsp, the above tool will do it automatically if you use colored lights. Copy the .lit and .bsp to your maps folder
-Engine needs to support loading .lit. Most engines do like Quakespasm, Fitzquake, Darkplaces etc. 
How Do I Run A Map From Fitzquake? 
Hello, I'm completely new to Quake. When I attempt to run a custom map in Fitzquake, the command line says, "Couldn't spawn server Maps/myquakemap.bsp"

I am using Jackhammer and choosing Run will compile the map and open Fitzquake, but nothing happens. Typing 'Map myquakemap' into the command line produces the result above.

I assume I'm not saving things in the correct directories, but have no idea where to begin with this.

If anyone has a breakdown for where the map should be in relation to Fitzquake, that would be fantastic. Any information is helpful.

Thank you all so much! 
Hey Hal :) 
You need to create a folder called "maps" inside your "id1" folder and but bsp's in there.

Thank You, DaZ! 
Your advice and some more tinkering with file paths solved the issue.

First of all, I did not have a maps folder under Id1, so this was created. After that I set this as the source maps directory in Jackhammer.

Also noticed that there wasn't actually a .bsp being created when I exported, so this was solved (I think) by adding Fitzquake as the CSG Executable under the build programs list. 
Woah There 
FitzQuake isn't a compiler so you won't need to add it to the compiler setup (aside from the path for your quake executable). Also, quake doesn't use a separate CSG compiler (that is from the Half-Life engine) so you can leave that entry blank.

If a bsp file is not being generated then my best guess is that the bsp compiler found something wrong with the level and refused to create a bsp from the map file you gave it. Check the compile log for warnings and errors! 
Ha, that would explain why it's not working again! I'll remove the csg entry and see what's wrong with the map.

How do I make the land shake when something heavy falls? Is it possible? 
Custom QuakeC. There's nothing built in. 
Someone asked me if there is a way to convert e1m1 (or any Quake map) to a format that 3dsmax can read.

Afaik Warren's obj->map util is one way only so I don't really know if it's possible. Any ideas? 
It's totally possible to do write a program to do that but you're going to end up with a highly triangulated mesh. Basically, you'll get the resulting BSP triangle mesh which will be ugly as hell to work with. 
Oh, but since I guess the E1M1 MAP source is available ... so I guess you COULD read that and generate brushes from it. But then that would be messy from a 3D modeling perspective since you'd have all these interpenetrating faces and unnecessary polygons. 
Than's bsp importer to Blender rocks:

You could convert from there or just stay in the wonderful suite. ;) Noesis might do it too, not sure. 
If You're Seriously Crazy... 
there is a n64 emulator that converts n64 geometry into obj files.

you could try to load up e1m1 there and give it a whirl. keep in mind that the n64 version of quake has reduced polys. 
Was asking for a friend, Than's bsp -> blender importer will probably do the trick! 
i wouldn't mind having a .map to max (ASE, OBJ, ..?) converter though. This way, I could build some structures in a map editor and import them into my 3ds max terrain as reference to build the terrain around.

I remember the Doom3 Editor had this ability, but it would be cool to have one for q1 .map format... 
Maybe try Crafty? I just gave this a test and it worked with a trenchbroom map -> crafty .obj export -> blender: 
I had extracted an eartquake as there is in the Hypnotic code, but without the other gadgets. Bad 3DInside is down.

Here is a simplified example with code.
See what you can do with it. 
Hey FYI the inside3d forums have moved here: 
Where can I find detailed information abount bsp2 format? Do I need bsp2 if I don't want to make a map of greater size than original bsp boundaries? I just have a lot of details, therefore a high brush count. 
There's a few factors, the main one being 65k marksurfaces limit. If you're above that, BSP2 it shall have to be. Check your compiler readout. 
Worldcraft 2.0 Or Hammer 3.4? 
I'm learning Hammer for Goldsrc right now, but some people told me Worldcraft 2.0 is better and more stable. Is that true? 
What About Jackhammer? 
Trying to diagnose a problem...

Using Rebb's jury rigged txqbsp compiler, I get the following warning:

WARNING: Mixed face contents (Sky, Empty) near (4084 1880 2531)

Sky, Empty??? As in, no contents? 
there is some space between corrupted, due to face sharing/splitting i believe. Cut geo there. 
Does Jackhammer have Trenchbroom's vertex mode? Because making complex shapes in Hammer is terrible. 
Vertex Mode Is Go! 
Bsp2 doesnt raise the bounds, only the amount what can be stored inside them. On a easy note.

Still Ionous is correct, reaching the facelimit means you need to be switching to bsp2 for success.

Good luck. 
Accidentally slipped in a CLIP face perhaps? 
Can't be... I have just 2 func_groups and one is rock and one is sky... 
New Tack 
Anyone know what steps I need to follow to do a q3bsp for Darkplaces? Is it just a mapper of using a regular q3bsp compiler and feeding the results into DP? 
I believe it is actually as simple as that. You make a Q3 .bsp, shaders and all, but use Q1 entities (use actual detail brushes instead of the hacked together func_details!). The .map format is slightly different iirc, so you'll need to make sure you're using q3's .map format so the compiler will accept it! 
To Be Clear 
I mean q3's .map is slightly different than q1's .map! 
aye, i remember there is directory paths and such in there... i think i can get by with using aguirre's map converter which goes both to and from q2 format (which I think is the same as q3 map format?)

as for shaders............. yeah... no clue about that as i never made a q3 map. i guess i'll track down a q3 compiler, i think q3map2 is the current standard? and go from there. 
Why does most Quake-based editors use colored boxes for entities? I can understand for things like lights and whatnot, but I think visual aid is important too like knowing which direction the info_player_start and monsters are facing on the spot. 
Func_detail Or Func_wall? 
What's the difference between them? 
Pika: I wouldn't say "most". It depends on which editor you use; some can be set to show either boxes or 3D models. In Radiant, for instance, it's simply a matter of editing the def file to include paths to the individual mdls.
While it's nice to have the models shown in the editor, it can have disadvantages depending on the implementation. In Quake, it's all about the entities' bounding boxes, and if an editor displays ONLY the model, correct placement becomes awkward. The result is monsters stuck inside walls or items falling out of the level.

adlib: Func_wall is a dynamic map entity which can be used to block off areas on certain skill levels or game modes; it can be removed mid-game, and it doesn't block light and vis. It also starts a texture animation when triggered if the right one is applied.
Func_detail is only for the compiler. It creates detail brushes/architecture that is disregarded when processing the visibility information and is turned into world geometry afterwards. It's a means of speeding up the VIS process, and it needs compiling tools that support it, otherwise you'll get a lot of disappearing stuff in-game. 
Q2 and Q3 (and Q1) .map are different too! Q2 has some extra fields for surface properties per face which Q1 and Q3 don't! 
ok, it was very simple actually, compiled, used quark to convert the map to q3 format (literally just copy/pasted from the q1 map into a new q3 map)

q3map2 is actually much worse than the q1 compilers in terms of handling insane geometry. looked like maybe 5% of the faces were missing in the q3 map.

oh well, looks like it's time to call it. it was a fun experiment, but just not meant to be... maybe i'll use this mesh for a doom3 map or something. 
Please don't tell me you were using the brush version of your terrain in the q3 version. 
Going for Q3BSP and not using meshes would seem a little pointless. BSP is not the way forward for terrain. 
i never made a q3 map before so.... i wouldn't know.

ericw told me about some misc_model thing though... which is apparently some magical way of turning a model into world geometry! 
Qbsp Request For All Tool Programmers 

Stop compiling immediately after writing the pointfile and exit with error code != 0

This lets people detect %errorlevel% in batch files.

because it was annoying me:

just grab the exe file. hard codes the START /B /I /WAIT /BELOWNORMAL into all the compiler commands, so everything always has below normal priority.

At some point, i should probably make some per-compiler thing to choose what priority you want, but... meh, this works. 
I was under the impression that you can't tell if there is a leak until you traverse the entire tree, thus why QBSP doesn't end early when it finds a leak. 
when qbsp writes the leak file, is that not 100% a leak? usually what I do is I watch the output until it says 'writing point file' then once it's done, i Ctrl+C and plug the leak. 
Oh, I see what you're asking for now, ignore me.

I was thinking you just wanted time savings by ending the compiler earlier, but most of the hard work has already been done. QBSP has fully processed and portalized the tree when it detects the leak... but you just want an option to return an error to the console at that point so your batch file can detect it. 
that and so i don't have to actually sit there and watch the output (which I sometimes miss) waiting for 'leaked!' :P

Disregarding the current map, I rarely seal until the end where I do a leak plugging session. But it gets tiring to have to watch console output hoping it won't leak. Dunno if others do it that way or not though... 
Yeah, I don't bother to seal until the end of making a map, but it's really rare for me to get leaks when I don't expect them. 
Yeah, I don't bother to seal until the end of making a map, but it's really rare for me to get leaks when I don't expect them. 
I never work on a map that leaks. 
Sometimes you have to, Rick. Large scale retooling of areas or you're trying something out, etc. Leaks aren't an issue until you want to release the map, really. Only thing they do is slow down your lighting builds... 
I prefer to keep a map sealed as well.

There are so many ways a map can get weird phantom leaks, I like to keep the obvious ones plugged.

For tests I do the big box method - a giant box or two to remove areas from the compile, or just plug holes while I put other areas together.

Really it just depends on which brand of OCD you subscribe to. 
I agree, when doing major structural changes it's hard to avoid creating leaks, but once things are rearranged close enough it's time to plug any leaks.

So I guess said that wrong. I just meant that I don't start with a bunch of brushes and stuff floating in the void, I build with sealed areas from the beginning. 
i do the same: keep it sealed most of the time, with a solid black brush plugging any doorways/hallways that lead to nowhere.

However, when in the middle of building a large atrium/canyon type space, i do leave it leaky while the outer walls of that space are still in flux though (i'd rather leave it empty than place a box around it, i feel the box will influence the way the space is built and create boxy rooms! :)

Anyway i'm on an old computer and it seems that qbsp and light run a lot faster on a sealed map. It seems that all the outer faces being clipped away speeds up both processes. So i do it for my own productivity. 
This Is A Weird Odd Shot 
anyone have any idea how to make gtkradiant1.5 ok with info_notnull being a both a point entity AND a brush entity? or maybe there's another good entity that can be used as a blank hackentity?

as it is, gtkr only considers the entity to be one or the other... if it's a point in the .ent file, all brush based info_notnulls lose their brush; if it's a brush, the points can't be edited in the editor because they have no brush (thankfully, they retain their origin). it's really inconvenient when trying to use both 
The newest version of Netradiant has the same problem. I had just deleted it entirely from the .ent file and my old 2012 version was fine with that, but the newest version defaults to assuming it's a point entity and deletes the brushes.

What would be nice is if the <point name= and <group name= were not locked into also being the classname. The classname should be a separate key something like:

<group name="brush null" ...>
<classname= "info_notnull>

<point name="point_null" ...>

Also, I started getting sv_touchlink errors using brushed info_notnull triggers in the new Netradiant when. I had to go back to the older version (and older copy of the map for some reason) to get rid of the error. 
mm, think I'm just going to map with the point entities as info_null, and then find/replacing them before compile to be info_notnull... maybe should hack qbsp to do this for me... 
I could do without the point entity version, but when I made it a group I started getting those sv_touchlink errors. Couldn't figure out how to fix them, so I just gave up and went back to the old version of Netradiant I've been using for years. 
Just Run Sed Before Qbsp 
Silly Czg 
i don't use teh lunix 
Wow I Thought U Were A True Dweeb 
There is a windows compile of all the best Linux programs, including sed and grep! 
I remember worldcraft had similar issues with a class being both brush and point, and the best solution in that case was to remove it from the fgd and just enter the classname by hand where needed. 
That's What I Did 
In the my old 2012 version of Netradiant that's what I had done and it worked fine. A couple weeks ago when I got the urge to map again, I downloaded the newest version.

With no entry at all for info_notnull, it would default to a point entity and delete the brushes. I changed it to a brush (group) entity and it seemed okay, except that playing the map I got sv_touchlinks errors when the info_notnull brush was triggered. So back to the 2012 version I went. No big deal, it works fine. 
Madfox And Negke, Thanks. Also... 
Is there a technical reason for not largely using meshes on a Quake level these days? Suppose I'd like to make a barebones BSP and add all detail using meshes, like I would for a Source or UE3 level. What are the limits? 
Using Meshes 
isn't as unheard of now. You can go pretty far if you went and used bsp models for instance, these are good because it helps the design feel consistent. You could go in and use meshes if you wanted to, mods like quoth allow you to add them fairly easily.

Getting the light correct for the models is important, meshes use the lightmap on the floor to tell you how bright the object is, so you're going to need to play a little to make this work. My advice is use quoth for this type of work, or Drake. Socks new mod will allow external models too and I think a few people will want to work on this once it's out. 
Getting meshes to light and blend in with the BSP surrounding them is notoriously difficult in Quake. Vert lighting vs lightmaps ... 
Right, I forgot about lighting. A Quake model doesn't shade itself, right? So, my full blown central computer room, with massive models covering the walls, would look bland. Maybe Sock's mod would take care of it? 
... or probably not. 
Is also difficult - unless I missed something you need to use clip brushes, and an editor that shows you the model dimensions is a must if you want anything approaching accuracy.

I know there are a couple of tools to convert meshes to brush though... Warren? 
Socks mod isn't going to take care of quakes lighting. It's just gonna add a shitload of cool new stuff. Really if you want the models to be lit differently you need to be working with something like DarkPlaces so that you can take advantage of the real time lighting. 
I sended you a testmap some time ago.
Check your email, gmail or johnmayal. 
Honey Wads 
Does anyone know where one can find them? They were available for a while via the Honey mapjam thread, but now that link is dead. Can't seem to find them on Quaddicted either...

On a different note, what would cause an item to disappear once a map has been compiled? At the moment I've got a Quad Damage that I can see in TrenchBroom, but when I compile and test the map in Quakespasm, it's gone. 
Quad is probably dropping out of the map on load because of being partly in a wall or floor. There's a devmode switch you can use to see messages to that effect. I think it's -developer 1 
My bad, it's +developer 1 for the command line switch, but apparently you can set in game also. Type developer 1 in the console and reload your map. 
Thanks, Rick 
I tried that, but I don't see anything about anything dropping out of the map in the console. Not that I know what everything in the console means, though... what sort of message should I expect to see? Something like "item_artifact_super_damage fell out of map"? Because there's nothing like that...

I checked again in the editor, and the QD is not touching brushes or other entities. I even raised it an extra few units from the floor, just in case. 
The message to expect is "Bonus item fell out of level at 'x y z'"
You have to raise the console for a second so the first few frames run in order to get the message.

fwiw I just tried in TB1, and the bottom of the quad's bounding box needs to be 16 units above the floor. 
yeah, for whatever reason, I've yet to find an editor that has the correct bounding box for the quad damage. 
Thanks, Ericw 
Ah, there it is -- "Bonus item fell out of level". I had to scroll up, because there were some other error messages too, e.g.
FindFile: can't find textures/b_nail0/nail0sid.tga
(and several other similar ones)

Weird, the QD was 16 units above the floor. I wonder if this is related to another issue I've been having with TB, where entities I try placing in the map replace earlier entities. FWIW, when I move the Quad to some location far away from where I've been building, it does appear when I test the map. 
Ah, good that you got it fixed. In the early days (Worldcraft 1.6) you pretty much couldn't believe any bounding box. I was always moving stuff around, 8 units at a time, from one build to the next, hoping it would finally decide to show up.

I finally ended up making a custom .fgd that was mostly correct, but I was never quite sure about the z axis. 
Cool, progress :-)

Is there enough clearance around the quad to the sides and front? That's about all I can think of, if moving it to another part of the map fixes it. Also check that it wasn't outside of the +/-4096 bounds by accident. If all else fails, upload/paste the relevant part of the map 
Mapping For Daikatana? 
I hear IonRadiant is the official and only map editor for Daiktana so far. However, I also hear it was even worse than the game itself because of troublesome setup process.

Is there an alternative to Ion Radiant? When can Trenchbroom or Jackhammer support Daikatana since it's a Q2 engine game as well? 
Re: #15119, #15118 
Thanks for your responses, Rick and ericw!

Hmm, "fixed" is maybe not exactly the right term. I just shifted the Quad to a position far away to see if it would appear at all, but it's not somewhere where it would make much sense to have it, and I still have no idea why it would not appear where I originally placed it.

ericw, yes, there's plenty of clearance on all sides. I don't think it's out of bounds, although I'm still not sure how to check that with TB. What I have done, though, is to move everything in my map to where it's shown when you first open the map in TB. I assume that means it's more or less centred, right (i.e. near 0, 0, 0)? And I'm working with a really tiny structure at the moment, so if it's even near the centre of the map, there's no way it could extend to +/-4096...

I might just ignore the problem for now and make do without the Quad. The map is still in its infancy and item placement can still be changed. But should I run into the same issue again, I guess I'll upload part of the map.

Thanks again. :) 
Bump #15111 
Honey wads ... anyone? 
One option, you can dump the wad from a bsp with bsputil --extract-textures (available in tyrutils or my branch). 
One option, you can dump the wad from a bsp with bsputil --extract-textures (available in tyrutils or my branch). 
What Black Magic Is This 
Thanks! Ok, bear in mind this is new territory for me ... so I copied honey.bsp into the directory where I have tyrutils and typed

./bsputil --extract-textures honey

That created a file called "honey.wad", but when I try to use that in TB, it seems to be empty. What am I doing wrong? 
Its A Tb2 Bug :( 
I fixed it though, but wait for SleepwalkR to merge it I guess 
Oh. Other wads work, though... 
Do you have TexMex? That's one of the best tools for messing with texture wads. It can read the textures from a .bsp and save them as a wad. I didn't see it a quaketastic or quaddicted, but there's a lot to search through there, I may have missed it. 
Thanks, Rick! 
I'll give that a shot. I've used TexMex once before, about a year ago or so. Can't remember what I used it for, but it wasn't for this. I never realised one could simply extract textures from a bsp. Thanks for the link; I no longer had TexMex on my computer, so that really helps. 
texmex has aged really well, as a tool. still massively relevant and functions perfectly on modern OSes. 
So I'm Using Ericw's Awesome Light Tool... 
And it's messing with me:

Three of the lights it claims have a value of '0', despite very much having a value. All of them use the '_surface' function. Does anyone know why they refuse to light? 
can't imagine why off hand. That is a slightly old build, could be worth updating just in case that fixes it:

Are there any different keys set on the ones that aren't working compared with the one that is? 
What is that Jitterning stuff? I've never seen anything like that when I run it. 
That was some debugging code left in by accident in an older build 
Scaling Brushes 
I'm assuming this isn't possible, but it couldn't hurt to ask...

Is it possible to increase or decrease the size of a brush while preserving its shape? As in, let's say you've created a cylindrical shape, and you want a larger version (not just longer, but with a larger diameter). Is it necessary to create a new, separate brush (as I've been doing), or is there perhaps a tool or function that lets you simply increase/decrease the scale of the brush (kind of like you can do with images in image editing software)? 
Also, Stupid, Noobish Question... 
For those using TB: I've only just noticed that I can see three lines in-editor, an orange, blue and green one, corresponding to the x, y and z axes (not necessarily in that order). Is the point where they intersect the centre of the world (i.e. 0, 0, 0)? 
1st. Its possible to scale brushes up/down the amount you want with some editors. Trenchbroom currently doesnt do this for you.
2nd. Yes. 
Thanks, Mfx! 
Scaling complex brush shapes isn't something you want to do in Quake anyway.

What I do sometimes to scale up cylinders is to cut them into wedges, and pull the faces on each wedge outwards/inwards. In editors like TB and Radiant which preserve the adjacent angles of other faces when you pull on a face, this works really well. And in Radiant, which has CSG-merge, you can merge all the wedges back together into a single brush.

Otherwise, what I actually do more often, is to just remake the shape I want at the bigger size. This style of curve is what I most often use, and it's all about the ratios (interior angles have 1/4 and 1/1 slopes, outer faces are 1/2 and 2/1), and it's easy to make at all scales with the clipping tool. 
Thanks, Scampie 
Really useful advice! 
cut them into wedges, and pull the faces on each wedge outwards/inwards

Works like a charm! Thanks again. :)

Currently using only TB, so I have no way of merging the wedges back together -- does this matter much? Am I likely to run into problems when I have 12x as many brushes per cylinder? 
No, it doesn't really matter, Qbsp will cull the hidden faces anyway. I find it easier to work with less brushes whenever possible though. 
Good To Know, Thanks! 
I have another question, though:

When I cut a 12-sided cylinder into wedges and extend the sides as per Scampie's advice, it works perfectly.

However, I just tried it with a 24-sided cylinder, which I created by clipping the corners of a 12-sided cylinder, as shown in czg's curve tutorial: (2nd image from the bottom of the page). Somehow, it doesn't seem to work: when I drag the edges outward, they don't line up.

Is there a mathematical reason for this? And is there a fix/workaround? Does anybody know? 
Ok, I Might Be An Idiot... 
When I made the grid size really tiny, it all lined up. 
There is this sudden blue to brown transition:

It's a blue sunlight / sunlight 2 with orange coming from lava.

The top of the rock looks hand painted in blue. There should be a smoother transition to brown. What's the best way to do it, in your opinion? 
Check the keyboard shortcuts, there is a command to build the convex hull of the current selection. The effect is the same as CSG merge. Also works with faces; that makes it easy to build connecting brushes. 
That was it. Thank you. 
Thank you.

However, I've looked through the keyboard shortcuts several times now and I cannot find anything like what you describe... 
It's Only For Tb2 
Thanks, Yes, I Am Using TB2 
What is it called exactly? I mean the shortcut I should be seeing? 
Adding Music To The Level 
Is there anything similar to hl2 "play everywhere" flag for sound entities to make music play not as a 3D positioned sound, but as 2D sound? Does any mod support it, quoth or anything else? 
it's called "create convex hull"

Theres more on it here - 
Thanks For The Info, FifthElephant 
But I still don't see it. There's nothing called "Create convex hull" in my keyboard shortcuts list, or anywhere else that I can see... 
I just installed TB2 again and I remember how much I really hate it. I can't even create a brush properly, wont be using this unless a legacy brush creation option is added.

Just had a look at all shortcuts and I couldn't find it. Maybe re-open the issue in github? 
Hate Is A Strong Word 
You can create brushes by activating the create brush tool. In the 2D views, its pretty much as it was in TB1 - just drag out a brush. In the 3D view, it's different for now. More powerful (you can create arbitrary shapes), but yeah, you can't just drag them out as simple as you used to be able to.

If you chime in and add issue reports, I may try and add the legacy way back in. If you just hate in silence, I can't do much ;-) 
I struggled for a good 15 minutes just then to draw a simple square. I'm a huge fan of TB but the changes to the brush tool in TB2 really turns me off. You say you can drag out a brush in the 2D view, most of my work is done in the 3d view after 2 years of mapping like that (the original vision of the editor was pure, I haven't looked back!).
I'm sure the new brush tool is really powerful in it's own way but TB2 feels like a completely different editor now. Funnily enough I still have one of the older TB2 builds somewhere, I made my first Quake 2 map using that rather than the newer version because of the brush tool.

Also, I thought I did raise this on github when you first introduced the feature. 
You Did? 
Do you remember where? 
Is there anything similar to hl2 "play everywhere" flag for sound entities to make music play not as a 3D positioned sound, but as 2D sound? Does any mod support it, quoth or anything else?

Use a play_sound_triggered and set the speed key to -1 for the sound to have no attenuation, so heard equally loud everywhere in the level. 
Thanks Preach 
The sound will still be positional though. The only way around that is custom qc and playing the sound on the player entity. 
Func_detail? NOPE! 
I thought I'd be smart and change some struts, pillars and fancy bits to func_detail. Then after compiling with txqbsp and loading in quake some errors showed up and everything marked func_detail was missing on map. When I loaded it up in TB1 again the parts were missing too. I then went back to a save where they were still marked func_detail and removed it. Now on compile I get: ERROR: multiple world entities on line 5135. Any idea how I can fix this or what's even wrong? Thanks 
Mini Update :Multiple World Entities Error 
I skipped trying to fix it and went back to an old version of the map and just updated the few things I (remember) I changed. 
Dual Channel 
Ah yes, it will still be stereo. I was told that what you can do for that is position two entities, one at '4096 4096 4096' and one at '-4096 -4096 -4096' and they'll balance each other out exactly, not tested it. Bit hacky but good if it works.

Quoth does have the ability for a sound to be played out of a specific entity - but you have to specify it by targetname, so players can't ever be the subject. This rules out, besides that music trick, Max Payne style narration mid-level... 
Rotation Vs Rebuilding At 45 Degrees 
Say you have a very basic brush, e.g. a cube with all sides of equal length. If you then rotate it (using the editor's "rotate" tool) by 45 degrees, will it always be slightly off grid?

Conversely, if you rebuild that cube at a 45 degree angle (by starting with a new brush and clipping the sides) while keeping things on grid, will you always end up with something that is not exactly the same size as the non-rotated cube?

Because this is what it currently seems like to me, and I'm not sure what the best method here is. One option would be to rotate using the rotate tool, then with the grid size set to "1", create an on-grid brush that matches the rotated brush as closely as possible ... if you know what I mean (I'm sorry that's not explained clearly). But this seems like a messy way of doing things.

Is there a better way? 
You will never get on-grid "rotated" objects to have the same size as their ortho-axis counterparts. The best you can do for 45-degree stuff is to use the rule "3-diagonal units is roughly 4 orthogonal units" - using that rule the stuff you build at 45 degrees will be about 1.06 x larger than the equivalent orthogonal structure.

Because it's a pain in the arse to build at 45 degrees, do this:

Build your structure as normal, non-rotated, making sure nothing in it goes below a grid size of 4.

Then, in the two axes that are *not* going to be your rotation axis, scale your structure by 1.0606601717798212866012665431573 (I just c'n'p that from calculator)

Then rotate the whole thing 45 degrees

at this stage, it should look on grid (grid 1), but snap it all to grid 1 to be sure.

Note that with modern compilers, it's very debatable whether you even need to be on-grid anymore - personally I think on grid is only important so that other things can be fitted together neatly. 

Reminded me of the old Prince Rupert's cube problem. 
Fantastic Advice, Thank You, Kinn! 
...and thanks for that link, mfx. That makes my brain hurt. :) 
Also, you can use the same idea to make stuff that's rotated at other angles, (e.g. ~27 degrees which sits on a 1:2 gradient, or ~14 degrees which sits on a 1:4 gradient)

The trick is to use simple trigonometry to work out the difference in scale between the non-rotated brush and the closest-size rotated brush that's still on grid, then to apply this scaling to your object before you rotate it. 
Thanks, That's Great Advice! However... 
The trick is to use simple trigonometry

Yeah, that's the problem. I can barely remember any high-school mathematics. Very basic geometry and trigonometry seem about as simple as string theory to me at this stage. 
Ok I'll Rustle Up A Picture To Show It 
That'd Be Brilliant, Thanks! 
You can't make most 45 degree rotations be on the grid.

Let's assume a 64 unit x 64 unit square (we're only considering top down view). The diagonal of that square is 90.509... units ( Sqrt(64^2+64^2) ), and thus will not be on the grid when you turn it 45 degrees.

If you want to be on the grid with your rotation, you basically need to sacrifice perfection and actually scale your cube up or down as you rotate so as to get the corners on the grid, which is essentially what you are doing when you build a 45 degree cube by hand on the grid at a 45 degree angle.

Here's an example from some rotated cubes. I built these on the 8 unit grid, rotated the texture 45 degrees and used Radiant's fit tool to get the precise texture scale. Notice how the top one is slightly bigger than 1x1 scale, and the lower is slightly less. That means this cube itself is slightly bigger or smaller than the normal 64x64 cube next to it... but it's close and most wouldn't notice the difference. A perfectly rotated cube would be a 1x1 texture scale (or close due to slight rounding), but would not be on the grid.


As a side note, if you want to know how to scale the texture without the fit tool: The rotated cube on top is 96x96 on it's diagonals, we need half that to figure the length of one side (we're making a right triangle): Sqrt(48^2+48^2) is 67.882... We divide that by the size of our texture, 64, and get 1.06066..., just like the fit tool gave us! 
Directional Music 
I tried multiple entities in FMB-BDG and never managed to get away from stereo sound for the music. Most of the time it wasn't an issue as other sounds were always going off. But if you stand in a quiet area and pirouette, apart from the ogres making snyde comments, you get a distinct phasing effect. 
Lmoa Scampie - Thread Refresh FAIL 
Anybeans - here is a picture I made to show the basic theory behind building things to follow arbitrary gradients - note that they will typically only be approximately the same size as their orthogonally built versions, but it's worth it just to make things all line up neatly on grid.

You can have fun working out the scale relationships for different gradients - I will leave that as an exercise for the reader. 
Important Note 
The important thing to remember is that the original ortho-built geo needs to be on a coarser grid than the target rotated geo - you have to think how the ortho grid maps to the rotated "pseudo-grid" - e.g. for 45 degrees, 4 ortho grid units maps to "3 up and 3 along" grid units, so the original geo can't be built on a grid lower than 4.

For a ~27 degree rotated object (so the geo follows a 2:1 gradient), like the picture I just posted, 2 ortho grid units maps to "2 up and 1 along" grid units, so you only have to make sure the original isn't built on lower than grid 2. 
Cheers, But I Think Czg Was The Pioneer. 
See czg's Honey? Those crazy rotated broken bridges were built using this method, but the scale-then-rotate technique was applied twice in succession- in different axes - to get them looking really funky.

If you are going to rotate an object like this twice, the coarseness of the grid of the original object needs to be even higher - again I will leave that as an exercise for the reader. 
Thank you, Kinn.

And thank you, Scampie. 
You Should All Look At Czg's Curves Again 
A Rotatable Grid 
Is on my todo list for TB 2.1. That would make such things a lot simpler. 
Been looking for these handsome skyboxes you guys been using. Only found a graveyard of broken links (poetic). Where are they? Where are the coolest skyboxes these days? 
Swapping Between Multiple Info_intermissions 
From post #730 I see that a map allows a maximum of 4 different info_intermissions. Does the camera swap between them depending on engine (EzQuake / DarkPlaces seems not to) or is there a way that I can cause the view to autoswap every x seconds? (spz1dm2ftk in Screenshots & betas is the basic map but way out of date detail wise by now) 
Quake's normal qc code just 'randomly' chooses between the cameras (technically it's bound to your playtime, but for all intents and purposes, random). You can't, outside a mod, change which it chooses or make it swap to a different one every so often. 
Yes, I've seen lvl and Simon's skies. And I used Terragen about 10 years ago, it was awesome already. I just don't have time to make one for Jam6. I've seen people posting "look, my new skybox" and got curious, wanted to see something different. But thanks for mentioning Terragen. 
Sorry, That Just Linked To Kell's Main Page 
#15192: Creative Commons License Violation 
I don't make claim to the art work for these skyboxes. That credit goes to other talented people who allow you to use their wonderful skyboxes.

That's nice, but what would be even nicer is if they actually gave credit to said "talented people". I recognise at least some of sock's skyboxes on that page, but there is no mention of his name anywhere.

I had a look, and there seems to be just the same generic note included in each one:
This skybox is free for use but can't be sold for profit or altered in any way.
Those are not the terms under which sock has shared his work: (and I'm willing to bet the same applies to the other skyboxes on that page).

But license or not, it just seems like common decency to at least credit people for their work. 
Sorry if I overreacted, and I didn't mean to come across as an asshole to PyroGXPilot. 
You can killtarget intermission cameras so that there is only one left in the map to force the game to use a specific one. 
Intermission Camera Changing 
is a feature in socks new mod. :) 
Total_newbie: This! 
It was Kell's I was looking for! Thanks! 
It Was A Feature In In The Shadows 
Glad I was able to help someone out for a change. :) 
Something I don't know, -light (as used in worldspawn), -minlight, and -gate, numbers are talked about, but I don't remember ever seeing what the range was. For example, if -gate 5 is set, what does that mean? 5% or 5 on a scale of 0-255 or something else?

Confusing because -gate default is .001, that seems like an awfully tiny amount. I've used as high as 30 without seeing much difference. 
gate means that when light goes below the level specified, it is set to 0.

this is to stop delay 2 and 5 lights from going on forever.

make a box map with a regular light with brightnes 200 and try different gate settings to get an idea. 
Lip Is Weird, Or Is It Just Me. 
I am a virtual noob when it comes to Quake map making (I made a few DM levels back in 96/97 and tinkered around a bit in 2002 or so and that's it).

So I did a little test thing where I wanted to make a rising staircase with floating platforms. I used func_door and set the lips and all is well, apart from the first platform. This one should rise up out of the floor by 16 units so that the underside of it is flush with the floor. But setting it to lip 0 does not work, instead it uses the default of 8 and thus starts already half out of it's starting hole.

I figured out that setting the lip to 0.01 works fine and looks flush as well.

I was just wondering what is going on here? Is this some kinda of bug? 
Not Exactly 
When you leave a value unset in Quake, two separate parts of the system assign it a default. First, the engine changes all blank values to zero. Then the QC script tries to detect unset values to apply a custom default, but it can't distinguish between the field being unset and it being set to 0 explicitly. So it's a big storm of unfortunate design, and your workaround is about all you can do... 
Thanks. Good to know. The 0.01 thing works pretty well. 
-0 the workaround for this? 
Wont work. 
So far, no one knows about the range(s) for the light values?

I had that problem on some steps in Wish 13, I assumed it was a bug. In my case, the player can't see the actual size of the steps, only the upper 16 units, so I just made the first one 8 units taller than it needed to be. 
I use -gate 10 on all my maps without seeing any difference other than tyrlight finishing faster, so at the very least, '10 light units' is really really dark...

I don't really know what light levels really are in a numerical sense, I just set my lights however they look nice :D 
Pretty sure it's 0-255 because that's the range of values in a Quake screenshot taken with r_lightmap 1. Although the compiler default cutoff of .001 doesn't make much sense in that context. 
Did Some Tests :D 
So, I made a texture which has all the colours in order (apart from the fullbrights, those do not matter here)

Textured a wall with it and plopped a light in the room with delay set to local minlight.

Then I put in different light values to see when stuff changes. I took screenshots and compared it to the colormap.lmp

The colormap basically has 64 steps (63 really since the middle 2 steps are the same.)

I did this test using Winquake, because that is of course more accurate when it comes to the original colours. I did some initial tests in Quakespasm, but even in 16bit mode the colours are pretty off and not accurate to the actual palette ones.

So here are my results of the extremes.

240-255 ORIGINAL TEXTURE COLOURS (FULLBRIGHT) (technically the later range is already in the overbrights here)

This is just for evenly applied lighting though and the stepping seems to be kinda wonky, must be some weird maths in there.

Once you throw actual lighting scenarios and different attenuation models into the mix things of course are a lot different. 
"Backup Past 0" 
In the latest QuakeSpasm in a certain area of my level this "Backup Past 0" gets spammed to the console. I've never seen this before in my life and it has me puzzled :P

No errors, crashes, glitches or anything, just this message getting spammed in one area of the level. 
Post 580 on coding help. 
So quick question from the more experienced mappers:
Is there any way to have a func_train fire a trigger when it gets to a certain path corner?

Followup: can I set a trigger to fire when a monster touches it?

Thank you :D 
Turning Off A Blinking Light 
Is this impossible? I have one flickering light (style 10) that I want to turn off, but I can't. It has a targetname and there's a trigger_once that targets it. I've tried regular targeting and killtarget, but it just keeps blinking. If I make it a normal light everything works as expected. I must be missing something. 
Impossible, although I think it can be done with custom qc (not confirmed though. Has any mod ever done that?) 
it could be done by making a normal switchable light that is continuously targeted by a trigger_relay

targetname: flash

target: flash
targetname: flash
delay: 1.0

target: flash
starts the flashing

killtarget: flash
stops (permanently) the flashing 
Jimbo, if it moves automatically and can't be blocked, you could used a timed trigger. 
Where is the rock_brown texture originally from? 
Jimbo's Train Problem 
So quick question from the more experienced mappers:
Is there any way to have a func_train fire a trigger when it gets to a certain path corner

New blog post:

Actually, while writing that I thought of an alternate approach involving spikeshooters and logic gates, with the "cage" being changed to a "blast shield" which blocks the path of the spikes until the train reaches a certain point. So if the posted way is no good and you'd like me to elaborate, let me know... 
What To Do... 
Although not an editor/entity/how do I do this type of question, I still need some opinions on what I can do here. ie. I need help with my map =P.

I have made a small courtyard type area with a small wall skirting it and clipped so you can't go further, but I can't think of any decent ideas how to finish it off visual wise. I've tried a cliff face up but that looked a bit dodgy. (I may have messed up a few things as that build also gave a ton of errors) A void type idea also seems wrong.

Any feedback is always welcome.
Test shots : 
nb: the screenshot thread is actually for this kind of question

anyway, you could try putting cliffs there, but pushing them back from the wall by putting a river or something. 
Easiest thing would be to use a skybox and make it some kind of void map. Adding terrain outside the walls, you will end up needing a bunch of brushwork to look decent. Some kind of combination of brushes and skybox, along with a judicious amount of fog could look good also. You could even put it inside a giant underground cave. There's lots of possibilities. 
In the latest netradiant (1.5.0n compiled Jun 21 2015) for quake 1 mapping (not tried quake 3) brushes at 45 degree angles have their texture off by 90 degrees (usually). If I set the texture to -90, then it sometimes realigns. In other cases, I just can't get it to realign, even at other angles and shifts. Frustrating. Seems like a bug, but not sure. Should I contact ingar, the build author?

I wanted to post this on insideqc, but my account is not registered. I made the acount 2 years ago, so if anyone has admin/mod rights, could you please approve my account. Same username.

Relevant screenshot: 
This is a traditional Quake problem. Trying passing "-oldaxis" (or something like that) to your BSP compiler. Might fix it. 
Oh really? I never knew. So it's a bug or side effect of optimisation in the original dos quake? This doesn't happen with quake 3 bsp right?

Just tested -oldaxis, god that is damn useful. Thanks for that. 
That's odd, I've used Netradiant and Fitzquake/Quakespasm for years and have never had that problem.

I do use an old version of Netradiant though, from 2012 I think. I used Bengt Jardrup's qbsp until changing to txqbsp_xt, never with -oldaxis.

I do remember having that problem when I first started making Quake maps. That was probably the original Worldcraft and Id's qbsp though. 
Re: Lighting For First Timers 
I have had a look around this (massive) thread but so far have only found these two Lighting tutorials: (Spawnhost) (Shores of Nis)
Now these are fine for "what commands are available to me" but don't really seem to do much on the "what happens when I" or "how can I best do" fronts.

So far Tyr's site for his utils have been of more use to me.

Are there any others that I should be aware of?
I have even contemplated making a bunch of cubes connected with a plain passage and then adding a single light in each with various light and wait settings just to see what happens with each. 
Lighting A Map... 
IMO some of the best examples of lighting used to guide a player can be found in the Portal games. 
Using shortened links like that is the perfect way of making links break and sites hard to find... 
Huh... I should edit my guide... When I wrote it, mh's light was the only modern one around. :P 
"Oh really? I never knew. So it's a bug or side effect of optimisation in the original dos quake? This doesn't happen with quake 3 bsp right?

Just tested -oldaxis, god that is damn useful. Thanks for that. "

It has to do with Quake's automatic texture mapping and how it decides which axis to use when it encounters a 45 degree angle. There was never a consensus reached so compilers offer that switch to compensate. 
Sky Fog Help 
Please, is there a way to set r_skyfog on worldspawn? I'm using MarkV. Already tried _skyfog, skyfog and even (desperate) r_skyfog. None of them work. 
It can be done by putting it in a quake.rc file, and running the map as a separate game mod. I don't know of any way to just include it in the bsp file. 
Why is that anyway? QBSP will store the key/value pair in the bsp file. Could using it be added to the next version of Fitzquake/Quakespasm? 
Neat! Worth a try. 
unbirthday, re-register please, no such username at i3d/iqc. 
After stalling on this for a long time, I added a "_skyfog" worldspawn key to Quakespasm recently, to be included the next release. Also, _wateralpha,_lavaalpha,_slimealpha,_telealpha. 
Could you also add the fov thing on viewportmodels that FQMKV has? That's a neat feature and makes the weapons at higher fov not look weird. 
Try fov_adapt 
Kinda Works, 
but not quite as good. 
Good stuff just keeps coming. Separate alphas for the different liquids also? Man, that's great. 
Small Question About Relays 
So I made a trigger which triggers a bunch or relays which trigger lights with a staggered delay. I set the relays to have sound but they do not play any. What gives? 
It Can't Play Sounds 
trigger_relay's .qc code is

void() trigger_relay =
self.use = SUB_UseTargets;

Literally all it does is 'use' (trigger) it's targets. That's it. No sounds or anything else fancy.


There's some entity hack stuff you can do to make an info_notnull play a sound, so you could target that and it will play your sound. Give it the following properties:

"use" "train_wait"
"wait" "-1"
"noise" "boss2/sight.wav"
(or whatever sound, look in the .pak files for the names)

The sound must be precached, or your map will crash, so make it a sound that another entity in your map plays, that entity will precache the sound for you. For instance, the sound I used was from boss2, who is Shub, so I would need to place Shub in my map somewhere to use the sound. 
Thanks, that works. Was just confused because in the .fgd I got (the one DaZ made for JH) there is a dropdown for sound style on relay_triggers. 
you can trigger a trigger_once/trigger_multiple by giving it a targetname. then you can add any sounds you want to it. use the 'notouch' flag so you can't accidentally walk into it. 
What entity makes the "large Switch" sound then? Like the sound in e1m1 as the lights turn on as you go down the slime room with the 3 buttons. 
Quark tells me "sounds" "3" on a trigger_once/multiple makes the "large switch" sound :)

There's also 2="beep beep" 1="secret" 0=none 
the trigger volumes do. 
Poor Daz 
the jam has really taken a toll on him. :P 
What's going on with the multiple maps in jam6 trying to load CD track 1? It does not exist, first track is 2. Some editor definition file using 1 as default? Noticed it with ericw/tronyn's and warren's. 
Maybe they are hankering for some good old bit screeching. 
Must be a default, I never set it. 
What causes z-fighting and how does one avoid it in creating a map? 
Z-fighting is cause when faces of brushes overlap. In general this will only happen with things like func_door, func_plat etc.

So if you make a door or a platform make sure that none of the visible faces are level with other visible faces. This means that you should model in recesses for your platforms and doors to go into in most cases. 
Thanks For The Fast Response, Ptoing 
So what about having two world brushes with overlapping faces that the player can see? Will this ever result in z-fighting? And if not, is there any rule to which of the two faces (i.e. which texture) is seen in-game? 
with world brushes you should not have them overlapping in such a way that parts of faces which will be seen are flush. You don't know and then engine does not know, hence the z-fighting. I think the gl_zfix thing only sets worldspawn to a higher prio than entities. 
Ok, thanks for clarifying. I'm working on structure where it's kind of tricky not to have any visible surfaces overlap, especially without splitting the brushes into tiny components -- but I guess I'll have to figure it out somehow, then.

Thanks again! 
Feel free to upload a work in progress of your .map and I can have a look at it and let you know what might be problematic. 
Thank You! 
That's very kind of you, but at the moment I'm still too embarrassed to show anything I've made.

I might take you up on the offer when things look less messy ... but that's going to take a while at my pace. 
World Brushes Z-figiting 
shouldn't happen. Here's a test:

qbsp has a step where it CSG-subtracts each brush against each other brush. I think they're done in map file order, so the first brush I added there clips away the corner of the second brush.

The gl_zfix cvar in quakespasm was pushing each face of bmodels (so func_wall/func_door, etc.) out by a small amount, but it's disabled now becuase it caused arifacts making some secrets visible, and caused mappers to put z-fighting in their maps inadvertently. 
No problem :) 
That is still kinda bad practise though, right? Plopping worldspawn brushes together like that. Esp. since you do not want to keep track of which brushes were placed earlier.

So in most cases like that you should still cut one of the brushes up into smaller parts, right? 
yeah, it's best to avoid - messy map file. But if it's hard to avoid overlapping world brushes, the compiler will deal with it. 
Thanks for the extensive responses, ericw and ptoing. 
That's what this place is here for :D 
Warped Textures On Irregular Faces 
I've noticed that on some angled brush-faces, the brick texture I'm using is warped -- as in, the vertical lines on the texture (the short part of the bricks) are diagonal instead of vertical. No amount of changing the texture angle/size/X/Y-offset seems to help...

Is there any way of fixing/avoiding this? I'm using TrenchBroom 2 on Linux. 
I dunno about TB2, but Jackhammer has very good texture alignment tools and there is a Linux build, so maybe worth looking into that. 
I *think* that's something the "Valve 220" texture alignment fixes. And I *think* TrenchBroom supports it.

At the moment I use Netradiant, but I seem to remember somebody here sending me a map a year or so ago when I was trying TB1 that showed how it looked, and I remember being surprised how much better it was at aligning textures on angled and rotated surfaces.

Make a backup copy of your map if you try something like that, it may not be reversible. 
I can't believe I've been mapping all this time and just discovered this. Makes positioning info_intermission easy.

Turn on noclip and find a good view. Open the console and enter the "viewpos" command (no quotes). Write down the numbers:

(origin) mangle

Enter these in your map for an info_intermission - Done. 
That's a result of the way textures are projected onto faces in Quake. Your only option is to use the Valve 220 map format, which TB2 supports. However there's no conversion function yet, but I could implement one. 
Valve 220 
Thanks very much, ptoing, Rick and SleepwalkR, for your responses.

SleepwalkR, how does one go about using the Valve 220 format? I can't see any option for enabling it. Is it enabled by default? Or is it something one specifies when compiling? 
You Must Choose 
when you create a new map. In the game selection dialog, when you select Quake, you see a dropdown list below the game list where you can choose between Standard and Valve 220 map formats. 
Thanks For Explaining 
Does that mean I'm now stuck with standard format in the current map I'm working on, at least until you implement conversion? D'oh.

I tried opening a new .map in Valve format and copy&paste-ing my current map into the new file, but it doesn't work -- it says
Unable to parse clipboard contents: (line 2, column 1)Expected '(' or ')', but got 'classname'
I'm guessing that's because you can't (currently) copy&paste between the two formats in TB2? 
Yeah, That Doesn't Work 
First, I need to write a converter. Maybe I can squeeze one in tonight, because converting from Standard to Valve 220 is easy. The converse isn't, though. 
That Would Rock 
You'll be happy to know that the old way to draw brushes is coming back in TB2. You will have to enable the brush tool to do it, but then you can just bang out the brushes by dragging as usual. The new mode is only activated if you hold shift while clicking or dragging. 
that does indeed make me happy. Getting the brush mode to work has been a bug-bear of mine though. I've struggled to make brushes in TB2 in 3d view. Also, it would be nice to see a return of the 64x64 unit brush as a starting point when you start working on a new map. 
BSP2 And +-4096 Boundary 
I was under the impression that BSP2 removed the original +/- 4096 loop boundary but this still happens to me in BSP2 compiled maps. Does it require engine support too? I'm using QS 0.90.1 
BSP2 does not remove the 4096^3 boundaries. 
ohh whoops, i thought those two were kind the same thing. :S 
Caught me by surprise too when I found about it. 
No, the 4096 is tied into the networking protocol and other things I believe. Would be hard to remove. :-/ 
map format already supports larger map sizes, it's the network protocol that is the limiting factor.

I didn't add this feature to protocol 666 because I couldn't think of a good way that wouldn't make packet sizes bigger for normal-size maps. This means you'd get a packet overflow on some older maps that wouldn't overflow on protocol 15. 
The empty map will contain an initial room at some point in the future. If you want to testdrive the new / old create brush tool, I can upload a new build that contains it. 
For Those Who Care About Software Render 
Mankrip, da man behind Makaku and Retroquad engines, runned my jam 6 level and reported two bugs that pop in software render.

The mipmaps of my fixed rock_brown texture were wrong. I used Wally to edit the wads. Apparently the default settings for Remip Deluxe doesn't work well with Quake software render. I had to go to View / Options / Remip and click the "Use Quake Lookalike Settings" button.

Also, liquid textures bigger than 64x64 get distorted by software render. I was using *lava4a. For full compatibility, I'm changing to *lava1.

DLC will have both fixes. 
Mce.bsp By Negke 
How are those custom ammo boxes done, given that this is just a bsp file? 
Do Fitz/QS engines have a command to turn off .lit support? Something to easily see what a map looks like without colored lighting (even if you have to reload the level) 
Hm, just went through all the commands and such in QS, not Fitz though, but QS does not seem to have this. Would be a cool option. Something like r_uselit.

The fastest way now is to rename the lit file to something like lit~ and then restart the map in QS. A bit tedious, but it works. Also damn, some maps look horrible without the lit file, like Skacky's Jam5 map. Super blown out. I think it has to do with the thing that ericw mentioned a while back somewhere about using dark lightcolours. 
Unless you are using BSP2, reQuiem has gl_loadlitfiles 0/1 (also available in the menus). 
Also damn, some maps look horrible without the lit file, like Skacky's Jam5 map. Super blown out. I think it has to do with the thing that ericw mentioned a while back somewhere about using dark lightcolours.

That's suprising, i would have assumed that the non-colored version of the lighting would just desaturate the color while keeping the apparent brightness. 
It could have to do with how .lit support was added to tyrutils, the bsp lighting didn't use the _color keys at all. I changed it, for the next release of my fork, to average the RGB components of the ilt sample to get the greyscale value for the bsp. 
That's a very good solution for sure. And great work on the compile tools in general. 
RGB Is Terrible For Almost Everything. 
Careful with averaging RGB, that would give you some weird results. You rather want to calculate the (perceived) lightness of the color. I would need to go through my docs but if you can't find a good solution give me a nudge.

I wonder if the weird green tint on explosions/dynamic lights when playing games with (reddish?) lit files is also due to this. Noticed it a lot in the jam6 maps with QS. 
Actually it looks like averaging won't work..
The constraint is the LightNormalize function that MarkV is using (Baker mentioned that he took it from some QW engines). It scales the lit data based on the bsp file lighting, supposedly to prevent cheating in MP by using a fullbright lit file.

I looked at it again and, to prevent MarkV from scaling the lit data, the bsp needs to contain max(r,g,b). This kind of sucks because it forces your bsp to have overblown greyscale lighting, or else have potentially distorted colors in MarkV. 
1. as Spirit says, don't just do a staight average of RGB. Try instead using one of the formulas from here:

2. Spirit, regarding the green tint on explosions, this happens because the explosion is blowing out the lightmap to white. At the edges of the explosion, only certain color channels are blown out, so you get different colored rings around the explosion based on the color of the explosion and the color of the pre-existing lightmap. To preserve the color better, probably an engine would have to calculate the correct color first for each lightmap point, then clamp all 3 channels to different values to preserve it. 
Also Spirit 
I wonder if the weird green tint on explosions/dynamic lights when playing games with (reddish?) lit files is also due to this. Noticed it a lot in the jam6 maps with QS.
I think I see this with the rocks in jam6_daz, pretty sure it is completely normal (the rocks have a bit of green in them, the explosions are white so the orange tinted lighting briefly changes to white) 
I think it is more of an optical illusion as well. Partly the rock colours, partly the amount of red on screen getting your retinas to get cyan/greenish afterimages a bit.

If you look at this shot with it looks a bit greenish on the rim of the light sphere.

When looking at it with lightmap only it is a lot more yellow looking, and there really are no greens as such, but some dirty yellows. 
How Cool Is That 
Contrast/complement effect from red tinted faces? Someone should test if we see red if the lights are rather green. 
Just made a quick test room with greenish cyan light.

Plop in there and shoot some rockets at the walls. Esp the blue wall looks weirdly purple-ish. So it seems like it does work at least a bit. 
Missing Lit File Please 
Beyond 4096 
which engines support both bsp2 and > 4096 boundary protocol?

i checked the usual suspects: DP and RMQE but neither supports BSP2.

Prefer a stock-alike engine if possible. 
Fteqw should do, you can make it very stock like too. Quakeforge might do it too, not sure though. DP does support bsp2 though, did you use an old version. 
thanks spirit, what is quakeforge?? will need to google that shizzle.

i thought DP did bsp2?? but it said unsupported type. although, now I look at the build, it says it's from june 2011. so yeah, probably an old one.

grabbed the 20140513 build, loads the map, but geometry flickers like mad: :( 
BSP2 support (allegedly): DarkPlaces, QuakeSpasm, Fitzquake Mark V, qbism Super8, latest automated build of FTE, TyrQuake from 2013 or later, and QuakeForge. 
DP Flickering Bug 
try "r_useportalculling 0" 
ouch, same here. It also spammed more than 500 times "Mod_Q1BSP_RecursiveNodePortals: WARNING: new portal was clipped away".

Quakeforge is pretty awesome. Very non-standard though in terms of getting it properly configured (at least on Linux). It deserves a lot more attention. 
I moved the BSP2 page from Quaddicted to , edit ahoy please 
works perfectly, thank you ericw! 
Would waiting longer be of any use
Throw Me An EMail Plz 
How complex is the map ? Are you making use of detail-brushes ?
Did you try compiling it with TyrUtils ? 
Says I With No EMail Set In The Account. 
rebb at voidspark net 
complex, cut out all extra brushes to reach limit, was bound to bjp_tools_xt_290914 latest tools and would only light with tyrutils015_win32.

I get the feeling only the old vistools will help me out here, and the experience is one week.

I'll send you the map, thanx for your answer. 
Did you notice post #15023? Asaki is offering to help you with your QC trouble. By the way, the email address and website url on your profile is outdated. 
I know. I will send Asaki the info.
And yes, my email was outdated and meanwhile I'm restoring my new website. 
No Spawn Function For Func_dm_only 
I'm trying to set my jam 6 level for deathmatch. Navigation would improve with some teleports. Then I found this entity func_dm_only, a teleporter for deathmatch only. But standard id1 doesn't seem to have it and I get a "no spawn function for" console message.

Any ideas? I believe id1 progs.dat should have this entity... 
not in my copy of the source code. i've also never heard of it.

i think you can simulate this effect by checking all 3 of the not easy, medium, hard skills. 
Necros: O_o 
Wow, that worked. I thought the skill checkboxes had no relation with deathmatch yes/no. Or at least that would fail in nightmare skill (not easy, not medium, not hard).

I already had a logic gate setup working. Got back here just to say it. But now I'm deleting it. Just have to be sure if the 3 checkboxes work for every entity (even those where Jackhammer UI doesn't show the checks). 
if you are missing checkboxes, you can just manually set the 'spawnflags' field to '1792'. this is the bits 256, 512 and 1024 added together. you can do this for any combination of flags. 
I imagine this is impossible in Quake but QIIIA had options for DM only, TDM only etc. If this is not possible, it would have been a great addition. 
DM Only 
I think setting flags of "not in easy, medium or hard" is the only way to do this? 
That's how it's done. 
Not sure if this should go here or in the TrenchBroom thread...

Just created something in TrenchBroom, saved it, and when I tried to open it again, it gave me an error saying
(line 441, column 107)Expected integer or decimal, but got 'nan'
So I opened the file in a text editor and on line 441 one of the coordinates is indeed "nan" -- but in also in a few other places as well. I am guessing "nan" means "not a number" or "not a valid number"; is this correct?

How on earth does this happen, and how can one fix it? Should I replace all instances of "nan" with something else in my text editor, and if so, with what?

(I should perhaps also mention that I have done nothing really intricate in this map; no rotation; everything on grid.) 
Mighty Need For Rock Brushes Tips 
Okay, so this problem has been tormanting me ever since I started quake mapping: believable, compileable rock brushes.

How can I make believable enough rock brushes (not blocky) and still get vis to work? I'm wasting my time on my rejected jam6 map because of this shit. 
Find Rocks U Think Look Good And Copy Them 
Sock Has Guides 
Ask Me How 
I like mine, really.

They were made like this:

Golden rule: as long as you skew faces, you're safe.

In other words: if you're going to move vertices, you have to move all vertices in a surface together. And I said MOVE, not rotate. 
Even Better 
Platinum rule: your brush is always valid if all faces are parallelograms, all vertices are on grid and at least two faces are parallel to orthogonal axis.

Meaning that if you make a cube you can skew its faces at your will, it will compile.

Of course you're not skewing a face across its opposite; in this case you're just trying to troll me. 
Make a cube out of 4 sided brushes (pyramids, not prisms). That can then be duplicated and manipulated to your heart's content to produce whatever formations of rocks you like. 
For tri-soup walls and floors use 3 sided prisms/columns and move the vertexes on one end up/down (or in/out if walls). In my Jam6 map you can see how I tri-souped the walls, floor and ceiling.

There's also some randomly formed off-grid rocks that seemed to compile fine.

With careful clipping I made some columns/prisms where all the sides are formed by triangles. You can drag the vertexes around to make interesting shapes, just keep the brush convex and the ends flat. Cap the flat ends with stubby pyramids to give them a rounder look. 
Triangular faces are always valid. Diamond rule. 
Decorative Items/objects 
How much can you actually build using brushes? For example, say you were building a medieval style map and wanted wooden barrels, wheeled carts, crates, signs or metal light fixtures etc... can you build all that detail with no problems?

What I mean by "crates" is, beyond a six sided cube with a crate texture applied. A crate that has some dimensionality to it.

Engines are more advanced, limits are increased(providing openness and crazy architecture) as well as lighting being dramatically improved. But beyond that, there is very little in the way of filling the environment with anything more than monsters still! 
trisouping makes for really wonky slopes and ramps that are very awkward to walk on. collision with lots of strangely angled walls also feels very catchy and jagged. it looks nice but it works a lot better in quake3.

use flat floors, big ramps at compiler-friendly slope ratios, and lots of small steps if you really need to break up a floor with geometry. make your cliffs out of irregular hexagonal and pentagonal prisms (with the corners on-grid and the faces also on compiler-friendly slopes) and only slant the tops and bottoms.

you will be entirely forgiven (by me at least) if your rocks look a little "quakey" but have smooth solid collision. 
Mapping Tip Of The Day 
So you want to cast a shadow invisibly, like the Q on the ground in e1m5? If you're using a compiler which supports _shadow, you've probably thought of doing it with a func_wall that you then killtarget, or even hacking the entities in the bsp and deleting the func_wall. But there's an easier way! Instead of making the shadowcaster a func_wall, just give it the classname info_null, and the QC will remove it for you, no mess, no fuss. 
I liked the rocks in Daz' brimstone mapjam entry - they looking volcanic rock-like despite being angular and quakey.

Making really big lumps of strata looks good and doesn't leave you with micro-clip floor problems. 
Isn't it just a matter of structural irregular rock brushes touching the floor? Isn't it just a matter of making a whole cliff or at least its bottom a func_detail? Or func_wall, if my compiler doesn't support details?


Shouldn't I just "caulk" my level in a Q3 style? I mean, make a jaggy cliff func_illusionary and cover it with clip brushes? That would separate the visual cliff from its collision.

About damage_inc question, can't I just fill my level with MDL props? 
I use to smooth player collision against really detailed walls using clip brushes. Any reason to not do it? 
definitely clip off detailed stuff always.

func_illusionary won't help you though, it's not solid to weapons so the player will notice right away.

mdl props are useful if they're small, but since they're vertex lit by the ground beneath their origin they're not useful for large things because they don't get shaded, so you can't make buildings or pillars or archways as big mdls. 
By that I meant when tiny invisible misalignments in the floor form overhangs that the player gets stuck on.

Typically these are the result of mathematical inaccuracy from the editor and/or compiler.

The player will only notice them when they're part of the floor, since that's what they touch the most.

So it's pretty much what Lun says - use flat or simple brushes for your actual floor surfaces, or at least the ones the player will most use to navigate your level.

And yes, make the entire thing _detail. It has two downsides - higher memory requirement for end user (you might need heapsize >64 !!!) and the compiler will crash if there are no 'normal' world brushes.

Clipping off details is good for both the player and Quake Ai, and has a negligible improvement for the speed of calculating the hulls I believe. 
I've seen that "microclipping" thing happen occasionally. Seems to be a problem with the clipping hull because the brushes will all appear to meet perfectly. Usually a well placed clip brush will fix it. I've never had it happen enough to consider it a major problem. 
Thanks, guys. And @ijed, it's possible to pick what will be detail and what will not. In a pillar, just that lower brush that touches the floor, for example, not the whole thing. That's how I used to do for Torque Game Engine. I assume it's the same principle for modern Quake? Sometimes a touched surface can split and it's not bad. 

You mentioned "compiler-friendly slope ratios". Is that just wordsmithing or is that an actual thing? And, if so, is there a reference somewhere? 
First Thing That Came To Mind 
Yeah I know, it's just more convenient to make the whole thing one object and has no real downside. 
OTP - Thanks! That's useful, saved... 
The compiler splits the world up by radiating brushplanes outwards and cutting space with them, and if it picks a plane that's at some cockeyed angle the split it makes will intersect other walls and brushes in off-grid places. Walls, and vis leafs, will be split more often than is really necessary since intersections will rarely coincide with each other or with existing brushwork seams. Which is *technically* fine, modern computers and all that, but if you do this a lot you'll get a less healthy bsp tree. Vis will be shakier, and I think there's potential for microleafs and etc (someone like ericW can correct me on this voodoo).

Basically it doesn't make the map look a whole lot different to try to stick to 1:1, 1:2, and 1:4 but applied thoroughly it greatly reduces the odds of those really arcane compile errors, or a map with seemingly impossible to trace or fix vis errors like jam6_daz (once you start throwing little cylinders literally everywhere). 
OK, thanks. Yeah, I'm always awash in QBSP errors and VIS problems. 
Just to be perfectly clear: func_detail planes (or func_whatever actually) doesn't split the space, right? Making a func_detail is just the way to let a structural regular brush out of VIS compilation, is that correct? 
func_detail *does* split up the world. e.g. if you have a bunch of vertical columns as func_detail, they will split up the floor where they touch. The reason for this is Quake doesn't really support detail brushes, so they are compiled into ordinary world polys, except qbsp passes some extra info about them to vis so they can be ignored by the vis process. Also, func_detail shouldn't be used to seal the map - not sure why.

All of the other func_* entities behave differently - they're called "bmodels". They:
-are invisible to vis, like func_detail
-don't split up the world.
-are rendered in a separate pass by the engine. Some engines like fitzquake can get slow with very complex bmodels.
-they originally didn't cast shadows, but you can make them cast shadows with tyrutils by setting "_shadow" "1" on the entity.
-they take an edict slot.

So - long story short - if you specifically don't want to cause splitting of the world, use a func_wall with "_shadow" "1" set 
Now that func_walls can cast shadows, they are as close as you can get to Quake 3 detail brushes.

It's too bad they contribute to the 256 model limit. Is that impossible to change? 
You know that func_detail exists, right? 
I tried making all the beams, thin pillars, light fittings and small wall details on my map func_detail the other day and the compiler was just having absolutely none of it. (txqbsp or tyr's bsp) The brushes werent showing o the mp at all, it was like I had deleted the lot. It took me hunting for an autosave where I hadn't edited it yet to get it back to normal. Something I did notice was that when it did work on some wall text I added: whichever engine I was using to play (darkplaces or ezquake) with refused to draw it ater a certain distance. 
You know that func_detail exists, right?


You know a func_detail isn't the same as a Quake 3 detail brush, right? 

In Quake, func_detail only has one real use. It excludes the brush from the vis process. This can greatly speed up vis if you have a lot of small brushes that do not really block the player's view.

My understanding is that they can cause the problems you are seeing when used to seal the map or if they protrude out into the "void".

I could be wrong though, because I generally don't use them. If I had a map that took more than a few hours for a full vis, I might reconsider, but I don't think they make the final result any better. 
"It's too bad they contribute to the 256 model limit. Is that impossible to change? "

This still exists? Even in expanded/enhanced engines? 
I'm sure it's not a hard limit anymore. FitzQuake will print a warning for over 255 models but the map will still run okay. I'm not sure Quakespasm even bothers with the warning. Maybe it's limited in the network code? 
Perfect, thanks.

Think I confused two "splits". Func_detail allows you to let brushes out of VIS computation, so they don't split (1) 3D space, regarding Binary Space Partition. But makes perfect sense their brushes still split (2) other brushes' surfaces, or the engine would have to know about them in runtime for proper sorting. In this case, shaded func_walls come to hand, but you better not abuse them.

oGkspAz are you sure you didn't just checked one of those "not in easy", "not in deathmatch" etc by accident? 
Q2/Q3 detail brushes don't split polys/space, but I don't think that was possible in Q1 due to a bsp structure limitation I also don't understand and won't try to describe.

I'd love to hear a cogent explanation though. 
Also Worth Noting 
func_detail isn't like any other func (except func_group). It doesn't carry through as an entity into the game, it purely exists as a compiler directive. It's a fake func. Making the classname worldspawn_detail might have technically been more accurate.

Q2/Q3 had a 'detail' flag in the .map format spec, which won't be modified for Q1 editors and tools because of reasons. There's occasional discussion of using the q2 or q3 .map format (or even the q3 bsp format), but it never leads to any movement except in wacky topheavy ports like Darkplaces which can load Megaman levels and includes quakeC builtins for running SETI@Home. 
the new edict limit is like 32768.
in fitzquake, i think you may have to explicitly set that with max_edicts "32768". quakespasm too maybe. 
I tried hacking qbsp to make func_detail not split world polys. The result was you could shoot through the func_detail things (bullets are collision detected by doing bsp traversal of hull 0). That change must have broken the bsp tree construction somehow.

q3bsp, I think, stores all of the original map brushes in the .bsp file, and uses those for collision detection. 
What? No. no way. then decompiling would be only a matter of extracting the right lump and writing it to .map? 
Pretty Sure That's Correct.. 
q3map2 has an option for decompiling:

I checked out the code to see if it was doing anything interesting, and it's pretty much just "open the 'brushes' bsp lump, write each brush to a .map file" 
Wow It's True. 
Here's a picture that shows the difference between a world brush, a func_detail, and a func_wall.

Those are 16x32 octagons placed against a flat wall.

The func_wall is in the middle. Notice how it doesn't cause the wall behind to get chopped up. 
BTW, that's in Quake.

Most of the time, a detail brush in Quake 3 will work just like a func_wall in Quake. 
quake 2 also has the brushes. This is how they are able to support collision for arbitrary sized entities, rather than using N number of "hulls", one for each bounding box size. 
Holy Shits 
guess you learn something new every day

are the brushes linked to the tree at all? how's the space searched efficiently? 
when is the best situation to use func_detail? Does it have any impact on the end user or does it only impair compile times? 
The impact on end user is a level portalized in a more rational way. Visibility will be based on walls enclosing the room, not the six uber detailed pilars or the chandelier inside it, ones you will carefully turn into func_detail. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. 
adib - No, that's right. You should func_detail anything that will create a ton of cuts and portals for no real benefit. 
As far as I know, the only reason to use func_detail is to speed up vis. If done correctly, the player will have no idea that they were used. Do it wrong and the player will see brushes start disappearing. Func_detail brushes have no effect on how qbsp chops up the brushes. 
That sounds like the issue I was having with my text shaped brushes on the one wall. 
As far as I know, the only reason to use func_detail is to speed up vis

Actually, is there a run-time benefit too? e.g. let's say you have a huge and detailed map - it's better for performance to have fewer visleaves (with more polys in them) than tons and tons of small visleaves, right? I'm guessing func_detail results in less visleaves? 
tyrutils qbsp (and I assume rebb's as well) uses knowledge of which faces are func_detail in its bsp heuristic; it will try to use non-detail faces to divide up volume in preference to detail faces.

That might give a more optimal bsp tree, but aside from that, using func_detail creates just as many visleafs as not using it, so I wouldn't expect any difference at runtime. 
Texture Questions 
1) What is the correct file format for textures? E.g. let's say I want to modify an existing texture. I know how to use TexMex to export it from a texture wad, and how to add it back in, but I'm not sure what file format I should choose when doing so (I am guessing the answer is not jpg).

2) Would Gimp be a suitable programme for modifying/creating textures?

3) I think I understand the theory behind using skip textures, but why is it possible to see skip textures (as in, see a brush face with "skip" written all over it) in some maps? Shouldn't those brush faces be invisible? An example would be Day of the Lords: if you noclip through it, there are moments where you can see "skip" written on brush faces. 
Correct file format is .pcx file

I'm sure gimp would work ok. I use paintshop pro 7.

You shouldn't be able to see skip textures, must be one of those weird quirks of the game if you can see them by noclipping through stuff.

The skip faces you see are accidental leftovers i'd say, todays compilers "skip" them ahead of the final bsp compile, were the old tools just draw them and had to be removed with a special compile switch and/or tool.

Gimp is fine, dont expect it to work wonders tho.. 
Thanks For The Quick Answers, Fifth And Mfx 
Thanks for that link; I was actually reading through that before posting to see if it would answer any of my questions (I had a look here too).

So if I shouldn't expect too much from Gimp, what is the better alternative? (Just curious; I wouldn't be able to afford any non-free software anyway) 
I've always found Gimp and Photoshop too much of a pain to use for Quake textures. Their world is 24 bit.

I have an old copy of PSP 4.0 (still runs on Windows 7) that I use for making and modifying Quake textures. It works with 256 color palette graphics pretty well. I've always used the .bmp format.

I tried a newer version of PSP (x5), but it was way overly complicated for most of what I do, so I deleted it. 
What kind of pain you have using Photoshop to make Quake textures? You can switch between RGB and "indexed" color modes, I have the Quake palette with and without fullbright lines... Want help? 
+1 For Photoshop 
It's worth putting time into to learn imo. There are good reasons it's an industry standard (and not so goon ones).

Of course, it can be pretty cost prohibitive, which is one of the reasons I should eat my words and learn GIMP. 
Photoshop is great for Quake textures. Make heavy use of the 'gradient map' layer, and make yourself a set of gradients that match the rows of the Quake palette to use with them. 
For Index Colors 
I use LVPro 
It's just a personal preference thing, but I find these modern graphics/photo editing programs to have have an overly complex and cluttered up interface for something as simple as editing a bitmap.

I do have a copy of Gimp in my portable folder, some day I may give it another look. 
I've never thought of the Photoshop interface as cluttered. If you use hotkeys to flip between tools and create new layers when you need them, the interface is basically negligible. 
Jpg Is The Worst Fucking Format For Anything Ever 
Each time you save something in it, the quality downgrades. 
+1 For Wally 
As Spirit said. It's nowhere near as feature rich as Photoshop or Gimp, but its tools are basic enough for anyone to create and or edit some really good textures. That and it was made for the sole purpose of creating Quake textures, so that should be a plus. 
I use Wally just to handle wads. 
It's To Bad... 
That editors and engines haven't moved on from the ".wad" file format! For mappers that is. A few older external programs could be eliminated along with it. 
That editors and engines haven't moved on from the ".wad" file format! For mappers that is. A few older external programs could be eliminated along with it.

Reading individual 8-bit images from a folder, instead of .wad files, could be neat (if you happen to use the one compiler and one editor that might actually implement it). 
Most new GL engines support "external" textures, 24 bit plain files on the filesystem. Quakespasm, Fitzquake, Darkplaces do. They override textures inside BSP files and have to be placed at <mod folder>/textures. They can even be used on a single level if you place them at <mod folder>/textures/<map name> 
... meaning you don't have to bother about Quake palette anymore if you don't care about backward compatibility. 
Sorry, you mean at development time. I believe QuArk works the way you want. 
Sorry, you mean at development time. I believe QuArk works the way you want.

If only the other 99% of QuArk worked the way I want. 
If only the other 99% of QuArk worked 
What's the 1% that works ... the About Box? 
What's the 1% that works

The "X" button in the top-right corner of the workspace seems to function as intended. You probably don't need much else actually! 
I Forgot About Compiliers :( 
I meant more specifically, an uncompressed archive format(.zip) with the same directory structure as .wad files. Then they could be manipulated by the OS natively. Obvious Ex: Q3A's .pk3 It was just a thought I had while reading the comments above my post. 
What About 
1- The editor can deal with plain file textures;
2- A little program that packs texture files into a wad, just to feed qbsp. The wad can be deleted afterwards;
3- The engine deals with plain file textures.

It would take changes in the editors we love, like Jackhammer and Trenchbroom and this new compile step before qbsp. 
If you have to make a wad anyway for bsp, what's the point of making the editor and engine read individual texture files? 
Oh And 
There's something else that individual texture files don't have: mipmaps. You probably want these. 
No, You Don't 
If you're using GL engines you don't need mipmaps, right?

If this wad is made automatically out of your sight during compile process, you don't have to know it even exists and you don't need Wally or TexMex. 
Personally I can only see the point of bypassing the .wad process if you are making your own textures and don't want to keep remaking a .wad every time you add/change/remove a texture. Having an editor and bsp compiler that works with image files directly, not wads, might be a small timesaver/convenience.

But...if you still have to run a tool to generate a .wad before you run bsp.exe, then what do you gain exactly? And again, I dunno why you'd need the engine to read the texture files separately when you are baking them into .bsp? 
You only have to add another command to your automated compiling batch.

I'm pretty sure you can't have a TGA alpha "fence" texture inside BSP. It has to be an external TGA file.

I can provide 24bit versions of my textures in plain files. 
in theory the GL engine could use the mipmaps from the bsp, but in practice most don't, they just recalculate the mipmaps at load time in 32-bit color (which probably gives a better result.) 
If it's really important to you, you could script it all with some commandline tools. Quakeforge for example has uptodate texture tools 
Natively 8 Bit Editor 
While I can't actually claim I've ever produced anything useful from it, I have had a couple of tries pottering about with a graphics editor called Grafx2. It's designed to work with 8 bit (or fewer) palettes, so all the tools are focused on that kind of work. It has support for different gradients within your palette, and will dither them in a variety of ways. On the downside, it's originally a DOS tool and the interface is still pretty retro, but it's an interesting alternative to a classic photo editing tool. 
Pixel Pushing 
At work a couple of years ago, I designed and wrote a bespoke pixel-pushing tool in Unity, for making proper pixel-art 8-bit textures (that use a specific palette with defined gradients and whatnot).

Had some crazy features like painting relief maps, and then lighting them to get realistic highlights and shadows. That was probably a bit OTT, as I found the hand-drawn painterly stuff always had more charm.

A useful feature was the ability to paint on a tiled canvas. Really sucks that you can't do that in photoshop.

At some point I'd like to get permission to release it into the wild. It was PERFECT for quake textures, as I made double sure :} 
You have my permission to release it. Thanks! 
I think I mentioned finding that Grafx2 thing here a year or two ago. I've played around a bit with it, but never tried using it to actually make anything.

I mainly use it as an accessory to look at things such as which colors are actually used in a texture and how many pixels there are of each color used.

The interface is hard to get used to, but it does work. 
I'll Pester Sleepwalker 
To make a new art tool and call it TrenchBrush 
Fast Question 
how do I give a static entity a damage exposure? 
Fast Answer 
you cannot, it is static! 
Go code! 
Thanks Everyone... 
...for all the answers to my texture programme question way back in #15383. I guess the discussion has since taken on a life of its own, but I still wanted to say thanks. :) 
Slow Consideration 
forget the static entity, let's say I want to give a place a damage function.
Would a door that's blocked someway, and made invissible be a manner? 
the thing you want is a trigger_hurt

I think 
Leaks And Portals 
I'm currently working on a new map, and I keep getting a leak message. When I load the pts in Trenchbroom, the line squiggles all over the level, and is nearly impossible to find where the leak is coming from. I tried zeroing in on the coordinates that the compiler pops out, but of course, its just the player entity.

Also, I'm getting a lot if clipping warnings, but I'm not getting an outputted .por file.

Does anyone have advice for this?


Also, what causes clipping warnings? I'm guessing it's when two brushes intersect in the same space. Is this correct? 
More On Grafx2 
Have played about making a tiling texture in grafx2. It does support this, but the interface and documentation is really hard to follow, so a quick guide:

Imagine we want to make a 64x64 tiling texture, but while we work on it we'd like to have a 2x2 array of our texture to see how it tiles. Start a new image in grafx2 and click on the screen size icon. In the box you can edit the dimensions of the texture to be 128x128 (the size of the 2x2 tiling of our desired texture). How to do this was certainly not as obvious to me as to the developers!

Next click on the FX icon, and click on Grid. Set the grid size to be 64x64, but turn off Snap. Now click FX again (confusingly the Grid icon will not appear active if you have turned off the snap feature, but it is working). Click tilemap and then close the FX box. Now you can draw on the texture and all four tiles are altered at once.

This is great until you want to edit a texture, where you need to do things slightly differently. Load the original texture and then resize the image to fit a 2x2 grid. But before you turn on the grid and the tilemap, you need to copy-paste the tile into the other four quadrants, or it won't work.

Why? Well, the program is a bit too clever for its own good. When you turn on the tilemap, it looks to see which grid squares are currently identical to one-another, and connects matching patterns of tile for simultaneous editing. This lets you paste an entire screen from Mario Bros, then edit all the bricks at once, then all the grounds at once etc. But when we have an existing texture and 3 surrounding empty tiles, the 3 empty tiles are tied together, but the actual texture is kept separate! 
"Also, what causes clipping warnings? I'm guessing it's when two brushes intersect in the same space. Is this correct? "

No, the whole purpose of QBSP is to clip and trim overlapping brushes. Well, almost.

What's the specific error? It's usually off grid stuff that annoys it... 
I'm not near my pc at the moment, but I can check when I get home.

I just thought of something, though.

I could copy the map into a new file, piece by piece, and compile it piece by piece until I get an error or a warning. That way I'd be able to pinpoint in exactly which section I'm receiving the warning or error (aside from the inevitable leaks from parsing the level in pieces, of course). 
if floating point error is your problem, copying the map piece by piece is just going to make it 1000 times worse. delete parts of the map until it DOES build.

don't go a little bit at a time, though. you can save time by deleting half the map, and continue with just the half that built. repeat. 
You need to post the exact error message. If it's warning: CutNodePortals_r:new portal was clipped away, that can be ignored or fixed depending on where it is. I can't off hand remember any other errors that mention "clip". 
couple of ideas:
-Make sure you're on the latest TB1 release (1.1.6).
-Use the "force integer plane points" mode in Map Properties. (save a backup first)
-Try both rebbs tools ( ) and tyrann's/mine:
-keep the map boundary brushes that face the void tidy, use simple rectangular slabs
-give the .PTS viewer in TB another chance. the leak lines can look like nonsense at first but try following the line from one end to the other. 
Can't Find A Light Leak 
I picked up a map I abandoned ages ago, because I think the map itself is a nice design. I have a light leak that I can't find. No matter what I do it tends to persist.

Can one of you guys help me find the culprit brush?

As an aside, should I persist and try and find said leak now, or should I continue with the map and try and find it later?

Can't open that .map in gtkradiant... weird?

Anyway, generally the best way to find a leak in a weird place is to cover half the map in a large brush, compile, if it still leaks, cover half the leaky side in a brush, etc etc until you narrow down the area where it leaks.

If it's a bad brush, it will likely be something non-cube, so keep that in mind once you narrow down the area. 
Thanks Scampie 
I have a non-ideal solution that works for the time being. I will need to revisit it later though... 
You wrapped the whole level inside *rift1 liquid walls? When I replaced all *rift1 with a solid texture it worked. 
The Shame 
rift is liquid?

I "solved" the problem by putting a giant hollowed cube outside of the sky. I thought I still had shitty geometry that was causing the problems. 
If the texture name start with a "*" it's liquid. 
Don't box your maps because you can't find a leak. Every editor loads pointfiles, just use the tools to fix the leak. Otherwise you're tripling the size of your .bsp with a ton of useless surfaces, all lightmapped with acres of black.

The compiler needs a leak-free hull to know what surfaces to prune away. When you put the whole map in a box, the compiler prunes away just the outside of that box and keeps everything else
yeah, it was a temporary measure, now that I've changed my sky back to a solid >_> there are no leaks 
I liked the navigation. Actually I'm resisting the temptation to steal your level.

Here is a demo with the Reaperbot: 
Thanks man.

Whenever I see bots play I'm always reminded that they're accurate idiots.

I'm still not sold on the teleporter destinations. When I first made the map it had really good flow, but would have been confusing for players, as the teleporters they came out by didn't teleport them to where they came from.

So I decided to make the borders of the teleporters and the destination pads textured similarly, so that the player would get used to what comes out where.

In hindsight I'm not sure if adding a mnemonic to remember destinations is worth the sacrifice. 
I missed it because I don't have the textures. I played on checkers, mostly. If you don't mind I'd love to make a "reload", new version or whatever (of a map that's not even finished, I know). But if you mind, no problem, looking forward to play it :D 
Sure Thing 
Let me know if you need me to reupload the .map file as I removed it from dropbox.

If you want to play the textured (latest) version to get a better feel for what I was going for I've uploaded it:

It's still incomplete but it's getting there. 
The message is:
WARNING: CutNodePortals_r:new portal was clipped away

This is the only warning I'm getting. No more warnings about leaks, but it still won't vis. It's not writing the prt file, but it's also not writing a .por file either, so I can't pinpoint the clipping portals, or the leaks.

Sorry it took me so long to write this. 
That Warning 
Is not stopping Vis AFAIK... 
Paste The Complete Qbsp Output Please 
use pastebin. 
I get about 5,000 of those warnings every time I make a map. I wouldn't worry about it. I can't remember the last map I made that had clean output from QBSP... 
I usually fix those, because i can. 
How? I'm willing to learn but I have no idea what it's even talking about so ... 
Well, i had the intent to document my experiences with all those errors (and how to fix them) anyway.
Thing is, i probably need visual examples, be it drawings or map snippets to explain this in detail.

But, for those errors to appear in thousands, you prolly have to raise the machine epsilon first.
Try a value of -epsilon 0.0125, raising in 0.0025 steps.

I compile often, just to look at the output, not loading the map in engine. I do this regularly, after adding rooms, rockwork, special detailed structures..

So i am able to nail those errors down very early, not having to check whole maps afterwards.

Next thing to check are those suspicious coords like having a vertex at 800 -64 - 128.0000023.

Those are the bane mostly, locking them to grid fixes portal cut away errors, at least for me.

When i find a portal error i cant fix with above methods/precautions, i make a new small brush at the specified coords, and look to "expand" existing brushwork to cover that brush.

Can be anything, pillars, more rocky wobbles, anything. Usually this all leaves me with no errors in the end.

I admit, the "real" reason for those is cloudy to me too, looking at the src left me shaking my head til dizzyness. :)

More later, must consult a friend. 
floating point stuff is the main reason for those errors to appear, just reassured. Build stuff on grid! 
Thanks a ton, man! I'll try to put that into practice on my next map and see what happens... Clean compiler output would be nice for a change. :P 
Mfx... Unless You Already Know... 
You should read the Quake mapping Holy Bible, the Q1 tooltips from aguirRe ( 
I recite that before going to sleep. Everyday. Out of my head...! 
Good ! 
You are forgiven, sinner ! 
Don't remember that page, looks like a gem! 
Yep Its Gold. 
And as it states, those portal cut away errors are not critical, you may end up with a total errorfree BSP that still has those errors when compiled.

Nowadays compilers aren't vulnerable to those errors, thanks to rebb and ericw!

Still you may find missing faces, small HOMs, nonsolid floors, all that jazz.

So better stackenblock* all on grid.

Well, it's less the compiler I'm concerned about and more the engine. I'm sure those errors don't help with mysterious collision problems and such. 
As you said. Fuck. 
"Try a value of -epsilon 0.0125, raising in 0.0025 steps. "

As a side note, Eric's QBSP has never heard of "-epsilon" ... 
It Has Another Name For It? 
It's Hardcoded To 0.0001 In Tyrutils 
I'll add -epsilon to the next build though 
All Hail AguirRe 
Hmm.... Warnings = no fucks given :P 
OBJ2MAP -> Warning generator 
seriously though, even if i was falling through the ground... i'd just put a func_wall with skip over the invisible hole rather than bother trying to fix anything. it's faster and just as effective, not to mention transparent to the player. 
I Dont Have That EA Attitude 
Drop the teenage rebellion attitude and go finish that dragon fortress! 
I always build on grid unless it's some weirdly shaped or twisted construction and rarely get cutnodeportals warnings. Most common problems they cause are small invisible walls and falling through the floor.

If there's no way to stay on grid, converting the brush(es) to func_walls will fix it, or if already on grid just smooth over with a clip brush. 
Leak Fixed 
Well I cheated a little, but I was able to get the level vis'd. I just built a box around the entire level, and then stretched the external walls from the level to meet the faces of the box's walls (that way all outer walls are closed, and are see-through when I noclip)
An amateur approach, I know, but it worked.

I'll ignore the clip warnings for now, but they are pretty annoying. Sorry mfx, I have a ghetto set up with no home internet so I'm using my phone to talk to you guys. I'll remember to send you the clipping warning when I get home. 
That expanding wall technique is a good approach, i do this too, especially on sky/closing brushes. 
Wait, so was qbsp writing a pointfile or not? 
It doesn't always. I've had leaks with no pointfile before. Those are SUPER DUPER fun. 
Did They In This Case Though? 
I'm just making double sure the new guys know about that sweet red leak-finding line. I didn't know about it for like the first six months of making Quake2 maps, and when someone told me about it on IRC it was like seeing the face of god.

Look for "load pointfile" under 'file' or somesuch menu, it varies by editor. Every compile that leaks (in theory) writes a yourmap.PTS or .LIN file that lists coordinates of the centers of all leaves connecting the edge of the grid to whatever entity the test hit first (it assumes all entities are inside the map, which they should be), in order.

That line (in theory, 99% of the time, unless you're doing REALLY wacky hyperdetailed slanty things) always goes right through whatever accidental microtunnel you left between brushes. If the leak appears to go through an otherwise solid brush, that brush may be fucked up somehow and getting tossed out by the compiler (there will be accompanying warnings), it may be an out of date leakfile and you didn't actually get a new one after all, or your brushwork is just amazingly dangerous.

It's also a good reminder when you just forget to build a ceiling. 
you can also use the command 'pointfile' in most Quake engines, and it will draw some points for you in engine (limited by particle counts)

it will likely also be useful to use 'gl_clear 1' when doing this too, since you'll want to noclip around to find it, and having a HOM void is annoying. 
I do use the pointfile cvar command on a regular basis, but for some reason, the leak file wasn't being updated at the time.

mfx - that's a really good idea, running qbsp after saving. A lot of the time I make too many changes in between compiling, which makes it near impossible to debug once there's a problem. I'll definitely make a habit of that.

The message is: WARNING: CutNodePortals_r:new portal was clipped away

Tyrutils 0.15 Win32 
What am I missing here
-dirt is only in my fork of tyrutils, available here 
I See 
forgot the right parms, foolish me. 
I tried to be smart to make use of the qbsp.log file.
Usually I mark the warning points off with a ambient_sound
to see where to look.

So if I get something like:
WARNING: CheckFace: Healing point (752 -73 -58) off plane by -0.0557
I place an ambient_drip on the 752 -73 -58, to cheque out where to start looking.

Somethimes it isn't clear where to look, so I open the qbsp.log with EditPlus.
Then I see there is a warning more specific, for some brushes (not the first one) like
WARNING: CheckFace: ^-- Brush 1251, Line 33721 ( Ent 0 SubBrush 1251 )

I hate to admit, but the Brush 1251 doesn't have that coordinates, and more Line 33721 shows another brush(?) that even doesn't have these specifics.

How do I obtain a no warning map, or what do I do with these Checkface's if they point to another trace? 
Rebb and me would appreciate having a look at the mapfile. Just mail rebb, those errors arent critical, especially the "healing point" warnings.
They basically tell you the compiler "heals" (so to say repairs) slight offgrid stuff by himself.

For the check face stuff, there is usually a texturename printed too, if they dont match the coords given, look for planes that intersectect those coords when expanded.

Sounds cryptic i know, send map please! 
I tried to fix the leak in your hellvert map and send it back to you, but the way it's built makes it too hard. I'd rather start another map from scratch and steal your design only. But then again, Q1 deathmatch is not getting much attention, or I'd have to wait for Mezmorki server is on, not even knowing if he intend to accept map submissions from us. So, let's say I'm stealing your work to keep it on a to-do list for a while. 
Rotating Door Tut 
Does anyone know where I can find out how to make a functioning func_rotate_door a la Hypnotic or Quoth? This is killing me...

Thanks in advance. 
I Guess You Can Find... 
In particular look at this one first, where czg's tutorial is copy-pasted:

Thanks, czg! 
I try to open my maps with ez,joe,fzquake, and gl quake and I can�t open .bsp and .map maps.
App error says "couldn't load gfx.wad"

What I can do? Be the folder order? 
You cannot "open maps with the exe" if that's what you mean, You have to use the map command to load them. 
Getting Close 
And where I can get the command? 
Store the games in quake/id1/maps

When you run the engine of choice you bring down the console by pressing the tilde key, this will be above your tab button and left of your "1" button.

Type "map yourmap" without the quotation marks.
You can only run a map if it's a .bsp file. 
whoops.. the first sentance should be "store the maps" 
Ok, the button onside the tab every time I use, so use map mymap.bsp is so easy and I don't use it... 
What If 
a queer perfectionist would like to try to clear up a map from all its warnings?

There was a discussion about it some toppic numbers ago and it made me thinking.
The modern compilers correkt the warnings with healing points, I get weary eyes detecting the cutnode portals away, and reading the qtooltips it doesn't seem to matter much on the final compiled map.

So what am I trying to correkt?
Working on my last map I managed to lower the warnings from 148 to 14.
The last cutnodeportals stay a mystery to me as they are somewhere out of the brush area in open space.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining.
I just want to nit out these warnings and confirm myself I did it right.
Sometimes I hate myself for bucking me with this question and in the end it doesn't seem to matter as maps with 1000 warnings play alright.

Does it extend the vistime, makes it a map go turtling, or are they just keen pointers to the way a better compiling can be obtained? 
With no visible HOMs and no clipping issues in that map after a full vis i'd say its fine.
Just ignore the warnings, check the map extensively, test every nook and corner for said issues.
Should be fine i'd say. 
warnings from 148 to 14.

That's all? I have 5277 warnings at this point in my map. You have some catching up to do. 
Compiling the GPL'd vanilla maps is frustrating. Each compiler gives different warnings/errors on different maps.

Some map compilers are case-sensitive, but the texture extraction tools / WAD compilers store texture names as lowercase, while the textures' names in the .map files are in uppercase. Even Jackhammer has this disparity between its own texture extractor and .map exporter tools.
No way I'm going to manually rename every texture to uppercase, and I've found no tool that does this job.

Some QBSP compilers fails to compile E2M2, some fails to compile other maps, and none compiles all maps (the four episodes + DM1 to DM7) correctly.

Not to mention that several of those maps have some surfaces that tends to get wrong lighting or to be left unlit, therefore being displayed as fullbright.

Also, removing the "style" field from one of the light_flame_large_yellow at the start of start.bsp makes the room go almost fully dark, messes up with the entity triggers everywhere on the map, and readding the .style field to it doesn't fix the problem.

It seems even Shia LaBeoulf wouldn't be able to just compile those maps. 
Shia LaBeowulf 
Will allow you to easily fix the texture names in one find/replace session. 
To find & replace I would still have to type each of the dozens of texture names manually.

I'll eventually code a commandline tool for matching texture names between .map and .wad files. This way, it can be included as an extra compiling step in Jackhammer and Worldcraft (I still haven't tried using Trenchbroom), before qbsp. 
On Linux 
sed is your friend :) 
Even on windows 
Oh, thanks ! I was not aware that sed was also available on windows (let's say DOS exactly).

great ! 
First Map 
Hi everyone, I am following Scampie's getting started with Trenchbroom and Quake guide ( I've made it through the process step by step, all up to compiling. Necros' compiler (also tried this on command line on mac) does produce a .bsp but I can't load the custom map in game.

I feel as though I am missing a step. My directory is organized (quake/id1/maps) as expected. When I try to call the map in console I receive a "couldn't spawn server" message (tried this on fitzquake on windows, and quakespams on mac, same result) What am I missing here? I'm using the shareware .pak, does this make a difference? Excited to make some progress! Thanks for your help! 
First Thought 
Did you place your .bsp in the quake/id1/maps folder?

Not sure if you can play a map with the shareware.pak alone.
This in case you use monsters like Hellknight, which need the fullware version. 
First Map 
Yep I structured the folders as you would expect (quake/id1/maps) I wonder now if it's because it's shareware. Is there any reason couldn't load a .bsp compiled for (fitzquake/quakespasm) The level is just a cuboid room with one light and a info_player_start 
Second Thought 
For just a cuboid room/light and player it shouldn't be a problem.
You could type "path" in the console, without the connotaton marks to see where your quake executable leads to.
If it is quakeid1maps your bsp should be there and start playing after "map your.bsp".

Isn't there no default in your placed mapname,
ie no bsp behind it, or longer then 8 letter mapname?

I'm using Quakespasm also for the first time and found out it didn't worked the way I thought.
So what I did was making a subdirectory in the Id1 one, called it my game, made a new subdirectory called "maps" and placed my bsp into it.

Then after making a new shortcut from the quakespasm.exe with characteristics
quakespasm.exe game mygame I could start in the right directory.
Then I typed "map mymap.bsp" in the console and it went fine. 
I ment a subdirectory in the Quake folder, not the Id1 folder. 
I think the "couldn't spawn server" error is because the shareware version doesn't support custom maps. 
Registered Quake 
What do you need for a "full" copy of Quake, just the pak0.pak? Can you legally obtain that from the steam version? 
If you buy the game through steam or gog then your map should work. 
As the corpse of the monstrous entity Chthon sinks back into the lava whence it rose, you grip the Rune of Earth Magic tightly. Now that you have conquered the Dimension of the Doomed, realm of Earth Magic, you are ready to complete your task in the other three haunted lands of Quake. Or are you? If you don't register Quake, you'll never know what awaits you in the Realm of Black Magic, the Netherworld, and the Elder World!

Shareware Quake is pak0.pak only, registered also has pak1.pak which has all the content missing from shareware like maps and several enemies and lightning gun.

The Steam version is the full registered version, the .exes it comes with just don't run without Steam running, but you can avoid that by using any other engine .exe which you want to do anyway. 
I wonder if Steam, and not Id/Bethesda is responsible for this? I bought a copy of Fallout 3 goty from Steam and it runs fine without Steam.

I bought Quake when it first came out, direct from Id, and have been moving the folder from one computer to another for 20 years and I don't remember ever having to deal with drm of any kind.

Personally, I now try to verify that the Steam version of a game will run without Steam before buying. If it doesn't, then I won't buy that game from them unless they are the sole supplier. is a great source for DRM free games 
Personally, I now try to verify that the Steam version of a game will run without Steam before buying

what steam game DOESN'T require the client to be running?? 
A few don't.

In the case of Quake I don't really care, since I almost never use the original engines and they're downloadable from id anyway. The key bits are just pak0/pak1. 
I have Fallout 3 (goty)and all three of the new Shadowrun series bought on Steam that I know will run from where ever I put the game folder and don't require Steam to be running.

Note that Steam gives you a short time to try games and still be able to get a full refund. Basically less than 2 hours played and within 2 weeks of purchase. 
refused my DukeNukum3D because I played it once,
and my account had used it before.
refused AliceInWonderland because..,
and so on. 
It Works! 
Decided to go with the GOG version (being DRM and client free) works! The map loaded just fine. I didn't realize the full version of Quake was needed, seems obvious now. Thanks guys! 
Good to see you got the game, time to play through it and once you're done play through the maps on quaddicted 
Damage By Triggered Action 
1) Can I give a damage to monsters by enabling a trigger in vanilla Quake? For example I use trigger_counter and when the sequence is complete it kills some monster.
2) Can I execute telefrag on monster without a teleport entities? 
QC hacks might make this possible. You could set the 'use' key on the monster to whatever the name of it's death function is in the progs ("dog_die" or whatever, you'll have to look in the source to see), then just trigger it, but it won't figure into the kill count properly.

You can also make a func_door or something and set "touch" on it to "tdeath_touch", and have it open from under the floor to poke the monster in the feet, that should blast it pretty hard. note: I have never tried this. 
of course, that's assuming the monster isn't moving, in which case I guess you could just crush it too ... never mind, I'm not paying attention! 
I have a quad on a func_wall that gets killtarget when the map starts. The quad then floats in midair. It worked fine until I enabled VIS during my compiles, and now the quad falls through the world. What gives? 
Not sure, but you might need to killtarget it a bit later if you are doing it instantly when the player spawns, the Quad may have not dropped to floor yet if you do it instantly. 
Doesn't change anything, sadly. 
Okay I found out why. It needs to have a proper texture, not SKIP. 
Is it possible to compile a map without wateralpha these days? 
Should Be Possible 
it's a qbsp option. for tyrutils: -notranswater and bjptools: -nowatervis 
Skip should have the same collision as other textures unless some compiler has changed this behavior 
droptofloor uses visible hull, no? 
it uses a tracebox, so the hull it uses depends upon the size of your entity (which is kinda what you'd normally expect). 
No Teleport Effect 
Having a group of several monsters teleport but only one shows the tele effect. I can't seem to get more than one instance of the effect at one time. Anyone seen this before? Using the latest quakespasm btw. 
Shortage Of Particles? 
try running the engine with -particles 100000
Haha, That Worked! 
Strange that by default quakespasm won't display more than 1 tele effects worth of particles...

anyway, thanks! 
Were You Using -pointfile? 
So I'm drubbing through the progs dir with qME, and can't find the health box model. Am I a colossal blackhead and missing something? You be the judge. 
Search Health In Maps 
Its A Bsp 
Maybe qme doesn't display .bsp's? 
qME doesn't display BSPs. 
QuArK does! 
Noesis, Blender 
Gtkradiant 1.5's Vertex Manipulation 
I decided to play around with the vertex editor in GTKRadiant 1.5, and I noticed that there isn't really much freedom to move verticies as I saw in comparison with 1.4

This just looks weird:

Anyone know why this is? 
this has always bothered me. wonder if there's a way around it? 
I'm Not Sure 
but I thought there was a way to select two controlpoints by keeping the leftmouse down and surround them. 
installed Radiant to see.
It should be: press shift + left mouse surround.
Then both controllpoints move smoothly. 
Yeah it looks gash, but what you are trying to get radiant to do is undefined.

Radiant does not create new planes or split brushes automatically in order to maintain brush validity after vertex manipulation, so in order to keep the brush valid it must move other plane points - and the results are about as useful as you would imagine.

Trenchbroom is a bit smarter in that it creates new faces as required. To be honest though I'm a diehard Radiant fanboy and get by with the clipper and edge manipulation, using vertex manip only on certain shapes where I know the results will 
Wtf It Ate The Result Of My Post 
"...where I know the results will be predictable" 
Clip Only Brush Entities 
If you build an entity entirely from clip brushes it doesn't usually work - I remember it being something to do with the bounding box not being enlarged by clip brushes. The workaround at the time I learnt this was to sandwich the clip brushes between thin regular brushes on opposite sides, so the clip lived within the boundaries they formed. Is this still state-of-the-art when it comes to making clip brush models, or is there some new compiler which corrects this automatically? 
It's An Engine Thing 
Doesn't check collision outside of visible area 
Is it possible to spawn a zombie that's laying on the ground by default, and that only wakes up when we touch a trigger, without changing the QC code? 
The best you can hope for in id1 is to emulate it, like E4M3 did. 
What necros said. I remember pushing some scrags with clip brushes once, but they had to be part of an entity made by visible brushes and had to be within the bounding box of the visible brushes. 
If you don't mind it blocking weapon fire, just do a skip textured brush model? 
Would an entity made of just skip brushes work better? 
Prog Hacks 
Trying to understand prog hacks and experimenting with different stuff.
Have few questions.

1. Is there any lists of appropriate functions for 'use', 'think' and 'touch'?
I found .qc files, but how can I know which function can be used where?

2. If I create trigger_multiple and then manually change its classname to info_notnull or InitTrigger it doesn't work.
If I create info_notnull from the beginning, change class to InitTrigger and use same keys and values - it works, but I can't change its size.

Inside map file I can see that first example doesn't have any brush information, only origin which I suspect is wrong anyway - "-64 0 0" while true-info_notnull right next to it has "-1248 352 -288".
Can anyone explain the process of creating "big" point entity?
Using GTKRadiant 1.6.

3. Is it possible to create say healing or other custom/hacked trigger that uses angle(only works when I'm facing specific direction)? 
Would an entity made of just skip brushes work better?

qbsp is supposed to calculate the physics bounds of each brush model. The engine fix for this bug would be to ignore the bounds in the .bsp and calculate your own. The tools fix is to calculate bounds correctly in qbsp. The mapper fix is to add a visible brush at opposite corners, hopefully inside other geometry so you don't see them. 
Skip That 
No, I want the effect of clip for what I have in mind. Visibility isn't a problem because I can turn that off with QC, but I want attacks and traces to pass through and only large entities to be blocked. 
Prog Hacks 
Hi DW, I have a collection of posts on my site which answer several of your questions

In particular, the following post is a guide to which functions you can/should use:

and this one deals with building triggers: 
Which Function 2015 
Revisiting that first post, it actually doesn't say as much as I thought it did about which functions you can use.

In a technical sense any QC function can be used. However, if the function takes parameters they will end up uninitialised, which rarely works well, so usually those functions should be avoided.

Which ones are useful is a bit more of a different matter - it's really down to what you're trying to accomplish. The following post has a bit of a guide on how I go about locating a useful function in the code and turning it into a functioning hack: 
sorry, what i said is not entirely correct. the engine only calculates collision within the bounding box.

so as metl is saying, it can be either side's fault.
the engine is a little lazy on how it decides to calculate collision, but the tool is just wrong in calculating the bounding box.

i don't think it's lazy to trust the data coming from the map compiler. It just turns out to be wrong. 
I can take a shot at fixing this in tyrutils-ericw, or at least add it to the todo list. It might be something that is easy to fix, given a test case. 
Dynamic Light Maphack 
Is there a maphack I can do to turn on a dynamic light (much like the power-up glow or weapon flashing) attached to the player, that gets triggered during play and lasts until triggered again or until the end of the map?

I'm mapping for Quoth btw. I know there's a torch powerup available but I'd prefer a pool of light to a spotlight, and I don't want the player to be able to turn it off himself. 
Prog Hacks 
I found your site while searching for info, Preach. Read most of the map hacks articles. I especially liked sad story of info_notnull that thought it is a real shambler 8)
Great info, even though at least half of it is too advanced for me at the moment. Another thing that makes my life harder is editor behavior.
For example, I tried to recreate activated door from Dynamic Entity Spawning and it didn't work (as I described in 2nd question). Well technically it worked, but not in a way it supposed to - activator-button opened door and activated trigger ignored me.

Today I opened my test map and same setup works as it should without me changing anything.
Few other things happened.
All entities with info_notnull and InitTrigger classnames had their position and size reset. Remember I wrote about suspicious "-64 0 0" origin? Well, now it is correct since entity crawled to the center of the world over the night.

As for what I'm trying to accomplish, I had that weird idea of trigger_push that pushes player only while he is facing specific direction. Realized that movement and view direction both use 'angle'. Got confused and tried to make something simpler.

So far I can recreate trigger_push behavior and trigger_multiple with angle, but not mixed together. 
Some Combo 
I think that might be a difficult combo to create. One of the barriers is that the "movedir" field is used by both type of entities to determine the direction of travel/activation. The bigger one is that the code which decides if you are facing the correct way to activate a trigger doesn't really depend on any other properties of the entity - it's hard-coded to call multi_trigger.

So if my heart was set on it, I'd probably accept I need to just have a conventional "facing trigger" activating some kind of hacked entity which pushes the player, and can be toggled on and off. I've never seen anyone create a trigger which can be switched on and off an arbitrary number of times before, the "spawn a trigger" was a state-of-the-art trick, but only good for one shot. But now I wonder if there might be a way...

The idea would be to create a moving trigger! I think the door functions are the best bet for this. An important detail is that we get actual instant teleportation if we make set the speed high enough, which will probably save us worries about movetype. Then you have a position far outside the map for the trigger to sit idle, and a target position for it to jump to when triggered. Use the door TOGGLE spawnflag value (32) so it doesn't auto-return and it might just work.

This is just a theoretical plan right now, but if it works then it's a really huge hack idea with a wide number of applications. So when I get a chance tomorrow I'll try to see if it can be made to work. 
hmm, will a trigger generate a touch if it teleports over an entity? (eg: with setorigin) i think you need force retouch? 
Some Combo 
"movedir". Yeah, that's what confused me too.
Maybe it still possible if we accept that this trick will always push and trigger using same direction?

I tried to activate different variations of pushing entity and failed. Maybe I'm doing something wrong (still a noob), but it looks like push trigger only works directly and does nothing when triggered by anything except for player. 
It's good to take a look at QC sources to figure out why something is not working.

For example "counter trigger" won't message "Only 3 more to go..." etc. when the activator is not player...
if (activator.classname == "player" && (self.spawnflags & SPAWNFLAG_NOMESSAGE) == 0)

Now I'm looking for some workaround, so monster killing each other can "fire" message in counter. 
Toggleable Trigger_push 
Hey DeeDoubleU, this one's for you.

It gets you a trigger_push hack which can be turned on and off an arbitrary number of times. You'll still have to do a bit of the heavy lifting here, useing a conventional "facing detector" trigger to turn it on. You may have to play around with the best way to make this work, some suggestions to try:

* Get rid of the TOGGLE spawnflag, so the trigger naturally returns to "closed" after a short time, and only constant retriggers from the facing detector will keep it in place

* Keep the TOGGLE, but have a trigger_relay which resets it at the same rate that the facing detector is reactivated

* Keep the TOGGLE, and have a pair of overlapping, opposite facing detectors. One triggers to turn the pusher on, and the other facing turns it back off. 
To Khreathor 
You're next in the queue! I like this hack so much I'm going to use it to fix your problem too! But it's bedtime now so it may take a little while until I get a chance.

TextFish: Have you tried a slient, rapidfire targeting the player through the floor? That sounds pretty hacky to me! There's probably a way to create a follow spot in just regular quake using an info_notnull, the effects flags, and the ShalHome function.

It's also interesting that both of you have asked a question which the aside in is very relevant to. Who does the spotlight follow if there are no players connected? In coop, which one of the players do you want to give the "3 more to go..." message to? 
Thanks for your help! I already tried few combinations with "enemy" key. I finally got it working. Problem was I forgot to set "wait" ;)

So I have connected enemies to info_notnull, which triggers counter every time enemy dies with "enemy" key set to 1, so it always blames player ;D

Here is an example:
"classname" "info_notnull"
"angles" "-0 0 -0"
"target" "counter"
"targetname" "count_enemies"
"use" "multi_trigger"
"enemy" "1"
"wait" "0.01"
"origin" "400 472 0"
Thanks Preach. 
My idea isn't worth abandoning Quoth for and it sounds like the info_trap would be very reliant on the player remaining as low as possible in the map (limiting the use of bridges and multi-story buildings etc.), so I think I'll need to put it on the back-burner until I can think of another solution! 
@Preach And Others 
I feel like I'm missing some fundamentals. Some details that no one ever mentions because it's basic stuff.

Finally figured out that I need to add keys in text editor and compile with .bat file, since editor "fixes" non-standard entities on map save/open and build.

Is there easier way to do this - some set of handy utils or hack-friendly editor?

Preach, maaaan they should teach about you in school.
Togglable push trigger works, though I can't implement your suggestions properly.
I can't make push-door go down on its own. It's either constantly going on and off dropping player a bit during each 'off' phasse or never goes down. 
If We Talk About Basics

But you must remember those are hacks, so you just exploit existing functions. That means: if you want to make some complex stuff, you need to write your own scripts in QC. 
some editors don't "fix" entities like that, so you might try other editors -- or talk to the developers here if it's trenchbroom or jackhammer. 
What Do You Mean, Fix 
You mean that the editor clears out any properties that weren't in the .def or .fgd file? I don't think TrenchBroom does that, and if it does, it shouldn't and I will fix it. 
It Doesn't As Far As I Know... 
I tend to prototype stuff without adding it to my fgd.

But I'm still on the last TB1 and only put stuff in TB2 to test.

If/when I map again I'll update to all the latest tech. 
It's GtkRadiant. 
It doesn't remove any keys or values, but if I create trigger that has actual volume and then change it's class to info_notnull - load/save/build would clear brush info from that entity and add origin instead.

Was wondering how you guys do it and hoped someone knows another way except making all hack related stuff last [in notepad] and never modify and save map in editor again. 
oh yeah, there is the problem of trying to use info_notnull as a brush entity and a point entity in the same map. If you only want brush entities you can just change it in the .def file, but if you want both you can't.

Probably the best solution with the tools we have is to create a info_notnull2 which allows brushes, then add to your batch file some kind of step that does a search and replace with info_notnull2 to info_notnull. 
Radiant only supports an entity classname to be either point- or brush-based. By default the definitions make info_notnull a point entity, so the editor converts it once you rename it.

There's no solution, only a workaround: I changed the def file so that info_notnull defaults to being a brush-based entity which then works for trigger volumes and such. It's still possible to make point-based info_notnulls by creating some point entity and renaming the classname afterwards; however, it will not show up in the editor views and can only be accessed/edited from the entity list ("L"). Pretty awkward. 
Too Slow 
TrenchBroom Allows You To Do It 
Monster Doors 
Is there a way to make a door operable by monsters only? I thought it could be cool to have a bit of my map where the player has to sneak through the door just after a monster to get through. 
I was using Netradiant and having no problems at all with info_notnull spawnable triggers, until I downloaded a newer version - then it went all stupid. Not only did I have to switch back to the older Netradiant, I had to revert to an earlier version of the map that had never been saved in the newer version. I probably could have eventually figured out what was wrong, but reverting to an older map was quicker. 
Monster Doors And Info_notnull Defeated, Almost 
Trigger opens real door and another invisible one that blocks only player.

Thanks for suggestion guys. I changed my quake.def entry for info_notnull to:

/*QUAKED info_notnull (0.8 0.6 0.2)
Invisible entity. Used as a positional target for lightning.


Works like a charm. Only problem is... not even a problem really, minor issue - editor treats every word of description as a flag now 8) 
point entities are defined like this:
/*QUAKED air_bubbles (0 .5 .8) (-8 -8 -8) (8 8 8)
Air bubbles. They disappear in Deathmatch.

where the last 2 sets of numbers refer to the minimum point and maximum point of the bounding box. 
You're missing a question mark. Here's a correct example:

/*QUAKED trigger_ladder (.5 .5 .5) ?
invisible ladder entity. when player is touching this entity, he can climb by pushing 'jump'


"angle" the direction player must be facing to climb ladder
oh right you were actually trying to do a brush entity..... i think my reading comprehension is getting worse ._. 
Editors "Fixing" Entities Not Conforming To FGD 
For Worldcraft/Jackhammer users, you can delete the definition for info_notnull from your fgd. One caveat, if you use a targetname on it, though, the editor won't be able to find it when it does the "Check for Errors" and will say cannot find suchnsuch targetname for whatever entity targets it. Just ignore it if you can. Conversely it won't be able to tell you if the info_notnull's target can't be found. 
Predefined Entity Properties? 
Is it possible to make an entity with predefined keys and their values?

Would be nice to setup few hacked triggers/doors once and then just place it on the map as easy as regular entities.

Oh, and by "possible" I mean editing .def or other config/settings file, without recompiling the editor. 
I think FGD allows default property values. 
Disco Lighting 
Anyone know what causes this? It seems to appear in certain spots in every map I compile: youtube link 
I'd guess there's a stale mapname.lit file in your quake/id1/maps directory, try deleting it.
If you're compiling in another directory and copying to quake/id1/maps, make sure to copy both the .lit and .bsp. 
Also, in that video it looked like the disco colors were showing up on the gun, but the floor was black? That's an engine bug (or weird feature), I guess. What engine is that?

To avoid having to run around checking for the gun color to change, maybe try Quakespasm with "r_lightmap 1" and "gl_clear 1" set, and noclip around the map. I'm fairly sure that QS will always match the weapon color with the floor lightmap color you see with "r_lightmap 1". 
Strange, I tested the same map in QS and it didn't occur. Guess it must be engine-related and not the map or compile tools. 
I felt like throwing some money at you, but there's no paypal link on your site...

Props for everything you continue to do, we all need more unassuming heroes. 
Thanks, appreciate it :-) 
Engine Weirdness 
First corrupted lightmaps in Darkplaces. These look fine in Quakespasm, Fitz 8x, Mark V even original GlQuake! I googled and see nothing. The complier I am using is tyrutils-ericw (v0.15.1). Any help or ideas on what to try would be appreciated.

Next issue. I have a ramp 128x128 with a height change of 64. And I am getting stuck on an invisible barrier - not 100% of the time but enough to be a problem in a DM map. Now I assume this is a netquake issue (Quakespasm) vs. QW physics of (Darkplaces). But hoping there is some way to address this. 
for the second problem, try replacing the triangular wedge with a slanted cube that has both a sloped surface and a flat top surface in the same brush. 
That looks like the floating-point lightmap size issue.
First, might be worth updating to 0.15.3 of my tools here.

Slightly off grid geometry could be a cause, same with the ramp issue. If you open the map in a text editor, are there lots of numbers that are slightly off integers?

Also, I might be able to add a workaround for the lightmap issue in the utils. Could I check out your map file? 
@metal will do - thanks.

@ericw I just compiled again and noticed these are actually the 0.15.3 versions. your readme is out of date (I think) - I just emailed you the map. 
What version of DarkPlaces are you using? 
This is a known issue with darkplaces, slapmap has an interesting little write-up on it - 
It's something I battled with on my Map Jam 4 theme. many of the textures were broke in Dark Places, the fix seemed to be making sure the texture sizes, rotations and axis were all on a whole number integer. 
I've long accepted that DP is only useful for maps made specifically for DP.

It does some cool stuff (Q3 bsp support mainly) but there are just too many examples of existing maps that break in funny ways in DP for it to be taken seriously as a general purpose engine. 
Mistery Solved 
Thanks all. Bummer because a lot of those textures are not scaled or rotated in any way. (That I know of.) In defense of DP I can play it at 144hz refresh easily while Quakespasm and others cannot. It looks very nice at the proper refresh rate! DP makes it easy to navigate mod directories and launch in engine, all kinds of little things that add up. Too bad. 
FYI I have a 144hz monitor and I play all my old games at that refresh rate.

The cvar you're looking for in other engines is host_maxfps

Just set it to 150 or something and then it will be as smooth as butter. 
I've gotten the "invisible barrier" problem many times. For some reason it happens often at the junction of multiple planes. Try adding a clip brush that extends the floor slightly (4-8 units) in the direction of your red arrow (toward camera). Or just move the floor/ramp junction away from the corner formed by the walls. 
Slope Stickiness 
I'm pretty sure metlslime's solution is on the money here.

Clip hulls are formed by pushing out the planes of the original brushes. When you have multiple brushes, they can expand in ways where they overlap each other and cause all sorts of annoying jagged sticky out bits.

By making sure the slope and the top flat surface is part of the same brush you will ensure a smooth transition between those surfaces in the clipping hulls. 
@5th - nice! that looks a lot better! I thought host_maxfps was separate from the refresh somehow. I assume this will cause weird physics tho.

@ Kinn and Rick, I used metlslime's fix and we're good to go. Thanks for the detailed info. Interesting stuff. 
@dumptruck_ds I got a hack for qbsp that seems to fix the DP lighting issues in your map. Here is a test build:

(I just added rounding for the bsp texture vectors, the same algorithm that is used for points - if a value is within 0.0001 of an integer, round it to that integer. It's not a proper fix but it seems to work decently well.) 
@ericw Wow, thank you so much for taking the time to solve this. Problem fixed. hopefully this will help folks in the future as well. 
ericw is awesome!! Darkplaces always wreaked havoc on my lighting in wierd spots.. in the middle of the walls! 
Darkplaces always wreaked havoc 
I See What You Did There ^^^ 
First Two Maps Won't Compile! 
Hey all, I was hoping my first post here wouldn't be an absolute newbie question, but things don't always work out for the best for us in this world.

Anyway, I've been trying to work out the basics of Quake mapping but I've hid a brick wall when it comes to compiling. I've worked through the Trenchbroom tutorial up to that step, and as the tutorial instructs I downloaded TyrUtils and necros's GUI utility and set up necros's utility according to instructions. I'm not sure what exactly is going on but it doesn't seem to do any compiling? There's no .bsp in the output folder, for example, or anywhere else on my computer. I'm not sure what's going wrong after rereading necros's documentation. (I'm hopeless with command lines, btw.)

Possible issues I've eliminated:
- spaces in the .map filename.
- overlapping brushes
- unsealed areas (although if I understand the tutorial correctly, this shouldn't be a problem if I'm not doing vis yet?)

I've included the output from the "compile" file from the working folder below. Can't say it says much to me, maybe it does to you. Also here's a link to my latest "map" I tried to compile (a small room with a monster and bad texturing):

@echo off

cd C:UsersGAMERDesktopQuakemapping

echo Copying Files...
copy C:UsersGAMERDesktopQuakemapping

echo Converting map...

echo --------------QBSP--------------
C:UsersGAMERDesktopQuake-mappingtyrutils-0.15-win32qbsp.exe second

copy second.bsp C:UsersGAMERDesktopQuakeID1maps
copy second.pts C:UsersGAMERDesktopQuakeID1maps
copy second.lit C:UsersGAMERDesktopQuakeID1maps
There are no slashes in your file paths. For example C:UsersGAMERDesktopQuakemapping should be C:\Users\GAMER\Desktop\Quake\mapping

I haven't used Necros compiler gui so I can't help with that. I'm sure others can! 
Thanks Daz. There are in the original text file, not sure why they weren't copied over. Here's a link:

(hi, btw! Love you maps and Youtube channel!) 
The bat file is looking for tyrutils in a directory called "-mapping", I'm assuming the hyphen there is a typo? 
Ah yes, I fixed it and it worked! Silly mistake on my part--been trying to compile some test maps for a couple days now, all of which didn't work due to some things I ended up figuring out--but in the process I moved/renamed some folders and didn't fix all the settings in the GUI. Now I can see my efforts in all their janky glory.

Thanks ericw! 
Well, now I wanna play your maps. 
Well, now I wanna play your maps. 
Monster Clip? 
Noobish question, but how can I make one?
I can create func_wall covered with skip texture and owner:1, but that would block everything (except player), not only monsters.

I tried to duplicate random texture in wad and rename it with few variations of "monster_clip", "clip_monster". That didn't work. 
I don't know how to put this to you DW. There's no easy way to say it.... so, I'll just say it.

I'm afraid you can't. 
Monsters don't cross holes in the floor. It's usually a bug that needs to be fixed by the mapper by covering it with skipwalls or some other hack, but if you're willing to put in some stylish vents where you want to stop monsters they'll refuse to path over it, which is nearly the same thing. 
Yeah what lunaran said.

Example here: 
That Might Just Work 
Thank you.
I assume everything deeper than stepheight would be enough, correct?

That linked image confuses me a little. Wouldn't monsters try to cross using that thin bridges?
Maybe there is minimum floor size they can use for navigation? 
Infinity Walls / BSPs 
Hey guys!

I just started using Trenchbroom and I'm having some problems when I'm cooking/baking the map. Just for testing I created this one room with just an enemy some lighting and pickups as well as a player spawn. It cookes/bakes well and when I load it in-game the bsps seem to be invisible, so I can look out in the infinity. Yet I can still see the enemy and the pickups.

Anyone know how to solve this?


/ Stefan 
1) post a link to the .map because it could be a number of things

2) you don't need to sign your posts 
It's to do with navigation - they won't cross a gap they think they can't.

In order to make it invisible to the player you can put a func_illusionary in the gap. 
One You 2 Many 
That linked image confuses me a little. Wouldn't monsters try to cross using that thin bridges?
Maybe there is minimum floor size they can use for navigation?

The way monsters navigate is mostly by blindly moving towards their enemy, turning randomly whenever they hit a wall or cliff. So technically they could cross those narrow beams but it's very unlikely . So if you want 100% impassible you probably need an unbroken gap with a func illusionary to fill in if desired. 
Monster Clip 
I wrote an article on how to program monster clip here: 
Bonus Hack 
If you don't care that it won't work in COOP mode, you can hack monster clip by making a func_wall with clip brushes as described in the blog post above. Then add to that func_wall the key

"owner" "1" 
I don't think monsters could path over those thin beams as the monster would be considered partially in the air due to some corners of its bbox being off the floor. AI won't willingly move to this state. 
Ah, so it tests all 4 corners for ground contact? Then I agree 
My current map exceeds safe limit and I have HOM effect starting at 4096 (only size warnings in log, no leaks).

In this case I'll move few rooms to fit, but was wondering is it possible at all to make a map which is larger than 4096?
Why editor shows grid up to 65536 if I can't use it? 
It's a network protocol limit. You can make maps larger than +-4096 but they will only work in engines with a protocol that supports it, like darkplaces. 
Why Are Leaks So EVIL 
It might be explained a thousands times, but every time it breaks me up.
Why does a map start leaking while there is no common explain for it?
A kinky brush, a wrecked up detail, an unusual corner.
All I see is a red line that leads me to a *.prt file making me guess there will be a bad brush.
When I deteckt the bad brush and delete it another one shrimps up like a balloon pressure.

I can block them off with a cube and precise the dilemma, but I just don't understand the meaning of it.
Give me a looking box and I can tell when there's no hole to look in but.., aargh! 
Because math. 
me for alladin. 
On Leaks 
Is it because id wanted accuracy of geometry over usability? Or was this a limitation of the tech at the time?

Out of interest would less leaks occur with relative coords rather than a static grid? 
coordinates relative to what? 
to each other, or the first brush placed. 
Invisible Clipping Volumes In Trenchbroom 
Is there any way to create invisible clipping volumes in Trenchbroom? There's a lot of stairs in my map and I'd like to cover them in a ramp to smooth out movement if that's at all possible? 
create a normal brush with the texture "clip" on it, that will do what you want.

However, ramps for stairs are kind of bad in quake because player will slide down the ramp, unlike stairs where you can stand on them properly. Also grenade bounce behavior on ramps is weird and different from stairs, and players will expect stair behavior if it looks like stairs. 
I'll probably just have to reimagine this section, the buffeting down the stairs caused by always run is too annoying to leave in IMO. Thanks for the help anyway. 
What editor are you using? 
Working in TrenchBroom atm but I think I wanna move to something more robust. I'm more comfortable working in orthographic views. 
My bad spud, still getting used to the format of this forum. 
Try using stairs with a height of 8 units and 16 deep. That should feel smooth 
TrenchBroom 2 has ortho views, let me know if you want to try it out. 
@FifthElephant - Cheers spud, thats working out pretty smooth for me.

@SleepwalkR - I'd be pretty interested. Appreciate the offer man. 
Send Me An Email Pls 
Address is in my profile. 
Checked Profile 
No email address showing, website gives me a 403 Forbidden 
Stairs in Quake are the worst, but second worst is the way the lip of a ramp will pop you into the air as you cross over it. Makes running or fighting on sloping terrain a big pain. 
Ramps are the worst... Had a nicely trisouped curved path... millions of weird ways it clips and trips you up, so had to remove it and replace it with stairs 
People have been bouncing up and down steps in Quake for nearly 20 years, so I doubt anyone will notice. It does help to make them deeper (front to back) than they are tall and 8 units high will be smoother than 16. 
Sock had some nice terrain at the start of Zendar, the way he got around the poor collision was to make clip brushes as stairs. Seems to be a good way of doing it. 
My steps are 8 x 24 units for smoothness. 
The trouble I find with 8 unit stairs is that it takes forever to elevate the player. Seriously ...

So many stairs... 
Even going up a standard Quake wall height, 128 units, = 16 stairs! 
It's personal preference really.

I sometimes use 8 units, I sometimes use 16. Depends on what I want the map to look like.
(on phone, sorry for no album)
The design of the stairs suggests the relationship between the spaces it connects. You should use what�s appropriate for the level you�re designing 
Forgot My Name 
last post is mine 
Altho, those stair images were cool and I saved them. Thanks. :P 
They're from a book called Architecture: Form Space and Order by Francis DK Ching. It's ~50 AUD and serves a good introduction to a variety of architectural concepts that's really accessible to non architecture majors. Architecture touches frequently on the psychology of spaces so I feel like its a pretty useful pickup if you have the disposable income. 
That's a great book. 
There's a bunch of books called that on Amazon ... a dozen different covers and prices ranging from $12 to $60. Nice...

I personally own this. The 12 dollar prize point is amazing, considering its over 300 A4 pages of illustrations and insight. 
I know I've posted this before, but this is a very good reference to have around.

Pictorial Encyclopedia of Historic Architectural Plans, Details and Elements

Each pair of pages has twenty or so small, numbered, pen and ink sketches on the right side with a brief description on the left. Get a used copy for cheap. 
Great Recommendation 
Cheers man, think i'll grab myself a little extra christmas present 
Great Books To Pick Up 
those drawings on the cover of the Pictorial Encyclopedia look like they could have been pulled from the orthographic views in a level editor. and the intersecting arches look like the cramped tunnels from my vault :P 
GtkRadiant1.5 & Quark6.5
It is not so much the editor, it is the txbsp that report the leak.

I think it a bit strange, as in the years the editors have become better.
Lots of maps I made in '99 I can't compile anymore of this reason. 
Caulk, NoDraw, Lightmaps, Splitting Faces & Negative Space 
Ok, I have a series of questions pertaining to Q3map2 and what is considered correct brushwork. I know this post might be better suited for Quake3World, but I think I need to give that a break lest I verge on pestering :/ Also, I'm pretty sure there are a number of people here that are experienced with Q3Map2.

It occurred to me recently that there may be number of things I should be doing/not doing:

1. Use caulk as the base texture then only apply art/diffuse textures to visible faces

2. Faces with non-caulk/diffuse textures should not be covered by other brushes. If this happens, cut the bush up so any non-viewable surface is caulk instead of diffuse

3. Use detail brushes more liberally. If it's not simple and doesn't have vis blocking utility make it detail. (this is a generalization and may be overall incorrect, I don't know)

So, in theory this all sounds very nice. Even in practice with simple geometry adhering to these standards is very doable. I did a small test with slightly more complex geometry to see the impact this would have on time, brush count, tri count and light maps.

Brushwork Comparison & Lightmap Comparison

"Sloppy" is simply laying down enough brushes to get the job done and disregarding the techniques listed above (aside from non-viewable surfaces being caulk). "Clean" is the result of using said techniques and is what I am currently presuming is the correct way to do things.

From my observation, these are the pros and cons of doing things "correctly":


The lightmap more is accurate and simply prettier, particularly along the concave seam of perpendicular faces. The lightmap data itself is smaller and able to be more efficiently packed. This could be meaningful with a large map.


Requires more brushes, which requires more time and produces more tris. I should note that I went ahead and split most faces into tris manually as the compiler wasn't spitting stuff out that was as pretty. However, the compiler might know what's better and perhaps I shouldn't meddle with it.

Ok! Questions:

1. Is the described "correct" way of doing things truly correct?

2. It's my understanding that brush count really only affects compile time, but once compiled it's irrelevant (aside from any axtra tris that may be produced).

3. If collision and sealing aren't necessary in a particular instance, is NoDraw preferred over Caulk? I ask this because I don't understand how collision works and want to avoid creating needles collision data.

4. Is a pocket of empty space surrounded by caulk brushes bad? In my test, the ceiling is flat, between the flat ceiling and the arched roof is a pocket of empty space. This could be filled with extra brushes, but is it necessary?

5. Is manually splitting faces advantageous such that it's worth the time?

6. Did this post need to be so fucking wordy? (thanks for getting this far)

Any insight would be greatly appreciated! 
brushes are used for collision - they remain relevant because of that. they won't affect render times, just tracelines/traceboxes/pointcontents/etc.

triangle counts are kinda unimportant. what matters more to vanilla q3 is vertex counts. with engines that use vbos for everything vertex counts start to become even more insignificant than triangle counts.
thanks to culling, triangle counts do still matter for cpu performance, but always much less so than the surface count.

note that you can use -patchmeta to combine multiple surfaces into one.
Its somewhat tempting to get q1bsp compilers to generate non-planar trifans rather than strict planar polygons too, but software renderers would hate it (gl wouldn't notice, although texture vectors would be a nightmare to calculate).

if you have many unique textures, you may find a benefit from atlasing them. 
The "pretty" method is basically you turning yourself into a human QBSP program. I don't see the value. 
Thanks Spike, what I understood was informative :P

My understanding of what affects rendering speeds and in what way is very weak. Looking at r_speeds doesn't do a lot for me so I just test the maps on low end hardware. I'm not sure if a core i3-3217U and its IGPU is indicative of the the low end, I should probably look at some stats on that. Anyway, that still pumps out upwards of 1.5K fps at 1366x768.

I've recently run some tests with the rain/snow system in darkplaces. Sadly, having any meaningful density results in a massive fps hit.

I plan to try some other ways to imply rain that aren't so taxing, such as having mass of pillars with each side having and alpha'd animaps of rain. Will probably look like shit, but it's worth a try. 
Try to make the rain texture animate on window glasses, so at least you don't have to simulate depht. With lighting flashes and sound behind them. 
Like water washing a skylight with rain drops hitting and making ripples.
Damn, I never make just one post. 
Indeed, that method is fine for that application. However, I'm using large, open maps in my instances. 
So what's a good place to grab cool skyboxes from? 
This could be a nice starting point -

I also made kind of a guide for it - 
Thanks but that stuff is little too "programmer art" for what I'm looking for. Was just wondering if there was a good repository or two that all the cool kids go to. 
These are the collections I know of:




Q3 skybox collection:

hipshot's are the most organic looking, IIRC he made them from photographs + photoshop, while the majority of the others are done in terragen. 
No problem, it can look a bit generic which is why I said 'starting point'. I think you'd have to find some stuff to put with it, like finding some planets online to photoshop onto it and blend etc (which is what I have done with mine).

I think most people tend to use these - 
Ericw, Fifth 
Thanks, exactly what I was looking for, cheers. 
I went through all this digging through Twitter to provide Kinn with a link only to come third?

Is there a name for this? Like sloppy seconds, except thirds? 
I'm sure he has a pants remark about it. 
Thankless Thirds 
I just made that up 
Disco Light Biscuits 
Using Jackhammer, EricW's TyrUtils for compiling and Quakespasm engine. What's going on here? It's just a basic light set to 1000. 
Out Of Date .lit File 
The engine is loading a .lit file that doesn't match the .bsp. Easiest fix is always pass the "-lit" flag to light and always copy the .lit and .bsp to your maps directory together (or just compile inside quake/XXX/maps) 
Thanks EricW 
That fixed it. 
Is there a way to force the BSP compiler to include all frames of texture animation in the BSP file, without having to create dummy brushes with the other texture frames? 
I thought that was automated now with modern day compilers ... 
I thought that was automated even with olden day compilers ... 
I know whatever I was using in 2007 required brushes with all the textures of animation to actually be in the map. That hasn't been necessary with the BSP versions I've been using the last 5 years or so. 
Rick, I Remember The Same 
iirc those were treeqbsp.exe and variants. IIRC. 
Oops, I've forgotten to test this with other compilers since my last post.

Now I don't remember if the one that gave me this problem was the one included in Worldcraft 1.6, the one included in Jackhammer, or the one from EricW. Anyway, good to know that this was fixed in recent compilers. 
Trigger More Triggers? 
So I have a question. Is it possible to trigger another door or item after another has been triggered?

In this case I am talking about doors, Secret once more specifically. If I shoot / hit a secret door I would like to have another door / panel slide open / trigger once the other door has opened completely. Is this possible in quake?

Thanks in advance to any map guru's 
func_door doesn't fire targets when it opens or is shot, so in this case you will likely want to set it up so that you have a thin trigger_once/multiple with 'health' '1' which is what you actually shoot... and that targets the door and a trigger_relay with a delay that targets your second door.

if you are using a func_door_secret, that will fire a target when it is shot or triggered open, but it will fire it right when it is triggered so you will likely want to target a trigger_relay with a delay in this case as well. 
I Believe That 
AD has this functionality. It could be worth using trigger_relay as scampie said. 
Yes. You just have to synchronize. Your door targets a trigger. This trigger waits to fire just the amount of seconds the door takes to open. Cant remember the exact properties' names, though, but that works. 
Thanks Everryone 
Sweet thanks everyone. I'll give this a go! 
It Works! 
Sweet... and I can trigger multiple things in various sequences. Epic doors opening with lighting toggling on... so fun. I wonder why this was not used more back in the day. 
I Use 
toggling on lights behind secret doors/monster closets when they open to prevent spoiling that there's something behind it before it opens. 
Door Triggered By Either Of 2 Events 
I want to create a door which will be opened by either of two events:
1. a player walks into a special trigger area (trigger_multiple?), and the door stays open as long as the player is triggering
2. a moving brush touches the door and the door will stay open as long as the brush is triggering it
The door should also stay open when both events take place at once and close (immediately) only when the events stop triggering.
Is this possible with the original Quake entities? 
Logic Gate 
Sounds like building a physical logic gate somewhere outside of the map is what you will need.

Create a button that operates when shot, set a spike shooter firing nails at it. Then place 2 doors between the spikes and button that block the spikes.

The 2 triggers inside the map should move the doors when activated, so that when both are active the two doors are moved out of the spikes flight path and the button is activated. 
Good lord ... that's ... awesome. 
But That's An And Gate 
He wants an or gate. 
Yep, Need OR Gate 
Yep, two doors will work as an AND gate. I need OR. But will definitely try to experiment with the spikes tonight. 
Can Use 1 Door 
Maybe I could set the triggers to open just one door? That should work as an OR gate 
I believe preach had a map hack for this which removes any delay in the triggers 
You Could Do The Same Spike Trap Setup As An OR Gate 
You need two spike traps firing at the trigger, and two doors. Just offset them at different angles so it works.

A NOT gate would be trickier but doable as well. Have a door block the path of the nails when triggered by the undesirable trigger. 
OR Gate 
Your idea is almost there, Shamblernaut: For that to work completely you have to do it so each door blocks the other door's path of the spikes, so it doesn't work as AND too and only as OR.

So you end up with:

Rest: 1 trigg 2nd trigg. both trigg.
� � � � � � � �
� - � - - � - �
- � - - � -
� �
T T T T T T T T 
Forgot To Preview It 
I repeat it:

Rest pos.....first trigg...2nd trigg...both trigg.

I am hating the fact that kerning is only applied to the posted post and not when writing. Took me a while to make the columns to stay aligned. 
Detail Brushes Considered Harmful Lol

(see ) 
Thanks Lun 
R.I.P. vis in natural cave type maps I guess. 
Logic Gates 
Here's the pair of articles on how to do "instant activation" logic gates:

There's some bonus content added today in the latter post: I've added the template .map files for the gates, only 32 months late! 
Lun, Kinn 
This is only if the detail brush seals the world face away. If the detail brushes are simply floating inside a world cube, this should still block vis?

Vis would see past the detail but stop once it reaches the box behind it? 
If it's not cutting into the structural brushes, it shouldn't be any problem at all. It's only when a detail brush completely covers and eliminates a structural poly that you run into trouble. 
Yeah. And that fudgy sliver space can be skip textured so you don't waste triangles and lightmap space (if that's a concern to you).

Still seems like a counterintuitive workflow, though, having to leave a gap where a gap would be totally the wrong thing to do in all other cases.

For big cave walls and such I'd prefer to have a vis table that properly treats giant func_walls as spanning multiple leaves, so there's no danger of them flickering or vanishing from the wrong vantage points. 
From your description, what you're proposing is an xor gate (either, or, but not both). I think the original question mentioned that the trigger should also be activated when both conditions are satisfied. 
thanks, that is great. Which tools did you use? I think tyrutils-ericw, original tyrutils, and rebb's txqbsp all have the same behaviour for detail.

For big cave walls and such I'd prefer to have a vis table that properly treats giant func_walls as spanning multiple leaves, so there's no danger of them flickering or vanishing from the wrong vantage points.

Yeah, that's purely up to the engine, since the table of leafs an entity is spanning is calculated and updated at runtime, in the server.
The original (problematic) behaviour was, if an entity spans more than 16 leafs, only the first 16 of those are used to compute visibility. I think most engines nowadays extend that table size and/or handle exceeding the table size by making the entity always visible (QS does this), but it is something to keep in mind. 
I recommend some folks check out jam6_scampie or ad_necrokeep with "r_showtris 1" and "notarget"... the way vis seems broken in this map is that certain brush entities (func_wall and func_illusionary and some func_doors) are visible at all times throughout the map. I suspect it's detail brushes which are the culprit, but I'm not exactly sure how! 
Nono Scampo 
those bmodels just stretch over 16 leafs, and therefore get drawn all the time. 
I just looked at ad_necrokeep, I see what you mean in Quakespasm - that's a side effect of the flickering prevention fix.

If you load the map in fitz085 with r_showtris, those entities won't show up when you're not in their PVS, but they are probably in > 16 leafs so there is a chance they will flicker in fitz.

So - the map itself is probably fine. 
oh. ok yay :D 
txqbsp_xt.exe 1.13.

I detail-brushed ad_necrokeep pretty aggressively (all the slanted brushes in every archway, lots of stairs ... the entire central spiral stairway and tower is one giant func_detail) without knowing about this limitation. I didn't do any of the cave walls, solely because I'd already gotten vis times low enough to make me happy. Good thing I stopped there, I guess. 
Yeah, i confused OR with XOR. 
Can't Understand Cocerello's Table 
Cocerello, I don't understand what your table is showing. Is it some kind of input-output state for the gate? Can you explain it to me? Thx! 

The ''-'' are the doors, the ''�'' are the spikes flying downwards to the triggers, which are the ''t''. Ignore the rest of symbols, are just fillers to make the columns align.
There is two columns because there is two spike-shooters and two triggers. 
Tried The Spikes, Door Won't Stay Open 
I've finally set up a test with spikes shooting a button. When the spikes keep shooting the button the door triggered by the button (let's call it the main door) keeps opening and closing like if the button was toggling it. In its parameters the toggle flag is off. 
Does It Need To Be Closed Again? 
then the toggle flag and triggering how often you want it is the way to go i'd say.
If not set wait to -1 on the door and remove flag 4. 
Needs Closed But... 
Needs to close but only when triggers stop triggering. 
I Think 
You need wait -1 and the toggle flag together.

The -1 stops it closing automatically, and the toggle makes it change state each time it is triggered.

You may need to add another button to your logic setup to retrigger the door. 
Might Stay Open Forever? 
But that sounds like the door might stay open forever if the triggers stop triggering at the wrong moment, won't it? 
Monster Pathing Over Gaps Between Brushes? 
They all keep getting hung up on the edge of each brush. I tried solving the problem with a clip brush and then tried setting that clip brush to a func_wall. Neither method worked. What gives?

Rough image of problem. 
Use skip func wall. 
Lighting Door / Lift Edges 
Is there some trick to lighting door edges that are initially closed? I have some bars that block an area. When the bars open the edges are black as they are flush against a solid brush when light.exe does it's thing. I've tried all kinds of light positions in and out of the brushes. Any pointers appreciated. 
per entity minlight 
Thanks Necros 
If possible, change the solid brush that's blocking the light to something that won't. I use func_wall for that a lot. 
Nick Kinn 
Thanks guys. Totally forgot about per entity minlight as I've never used it up to this point. 
How safely can I ignore 'Warning: Too many light styles on a face...' in this day and age?

I know exactly where it occurs in the map I am fooling with atm, but it doesn't seem to have a problem in FitzV... have engines in general upped how many lightstyles can be on a single face? Or should I really not tempt fate here? 
I think it's safe to ignore, it's not a usual "limit exceeded" message where the compiler is writing something that vanilla engines won't handle. The limit has always been 4 lightstyles per face, and that warning just means that your lighting setup generated more than that, but the compiler discarded some of them.

The only reason to be cautious is there may be lighting artifacts, because the lightstyle picked to discard is random (at least in tyrutils). It would probably be better if the light tool sorted the lightstyles by average brightness and discarded the one that contributed the least, so it would be less noticable. 
AFAIK it doesn't cause any b0rkage. Just those particular faces respect the earliest animated source in the hierarchy.

In engine terms it basically means how many light maps is in your level - each change in light level is a new one.

I suspect the reason that this hasn't been 'fixed' is because what would the fix be... apart from dynamic lightmaps. 
it's not obvious, but regular non-dynamic lighting counts as one of those 4 lightstyles.
So, for each face you have the ability to have 1 static + 3 dynamic lights casting onto that face. (I think if the static lighting is pure black, you can use all 4 styles for dynamic lights - heh) 
So its not in sequence? I kind of assumed there would be some deciding (ie. predictable) element to it. 
Double Crosspost! 
Yes, Mh did a lot of stuff with RMQe to try and solve this. We, the mappers, were basically a baby throwing its rattle out of the pram. 
Hmm.. good point, it could be the order the lights are listed in the map file, and latest 4 types win. 
What's a standard in one bit of Quake isn't necessarily the same in another - I'm just guessing. 
Alright, I was just thinking I could push a bit harder on lightstyles. I seem to remember long ago as a noob, that warning simply created unlit faces... so since I didn't see those, I thought maybe engines made more lightstyles a thing!... It's not a big deal, I've already moved things around slightly and don't get the warning anymore anyway! :D

The only reason to be cautious is there may be lighting artifacts, because the lightstyle picked to discard is random (at least in tyrutils). It would probably be better if the light tool sorted the lightstyles by average brightness and discarded the one that contributed the least, so it would be less noticable.

That seems like a good and reasonably simple idea to implement, but in my case likely wasn't even needed... I was only slightly overlapping in the far ends of some delay 2 lights, so I didn't even notice which it randomly selected to discard. Likely could've even raised my -gate setting from 2 to 3 and fixed it. 
Transparent Textures 
I put on my map thin brushes of vine textures with transparent background. Before compiling though I heard that a transparent texture has to have { as a prefix for it to work, so with texmex I renamed "swvine" as "{swvine".
I compile it with the "-fence" command in light, run it in Darkplaces, but the transparent effect doesn't occur: just big thin brushes with vines with a purple background. I thought this was a Darkplaces thing, because it couldn't handle Rubicon's transparent textures as well. So I run it in Quakespasm to see if it works here, turns out it doesn't work here as well.
What am I missing here? 
Forgot To Mention 
Those vine brushes are func_illusionary ones. 
-fence Goes To Qbsp 
Or Vis Idk 
Tried Both, They Don't Recognize It, Unlike Light 
You have the TGA with the alpha channel in the correct folder inside of Quake? It sounds like maybe it's reading from the BSP instead of externally... 
TGA? Alpha Channel In The Correct Folder? 
I need to know more... 
Basically, the "{" tells the game engine to go read an external texture rather than using what's in the WAD file. The texture in the WAD has none of the alpha channel information in it.

I don't know the specifics, someone else will I'm sure, but you need to have the proper TGA file complete with alpha channel somewhere that the game engine can see it for loading. 
you don't need to use -fence, that is a light compile only thing for it to try and cast shadows based on your cutout textures.

alpha cutout textures simply need a few things to work: { prefix on the name of the texture; it needs to be applied to an entity (func_wall, func_illusionary, etc); and the parts which are going to be invisible need to be palette color 255. You don't need to compile specially, the engine is what does the work.

did you grab {swvine texture from the arcane dimension start map (or any AD map that used it)? if so, you should be all set, it would've been named correctly... open the compiled .bsp in texmex and be sure the texture is renamed, I suspect you've likely messed something up there either in the .map or in your .wad. Did you remember to change the brush in your map to the renamed texture? 
Ignore JneeraZ, No TGA Stuff Is Needed, He's Mistaken 
Oh, this is just pure masking ... OK. 
Make sure texmex isn't doing that thing where it replaces fullbrights with not-fullbrights. 255 is a fullbright. 
Along with its WAD version, your texture must be an external file, a TGA image with an alpha channel where black pixels are transparent and any other shade of gray (better use white) are opaque. This file must be in a <mod>/textures folder.

It works in MarkV and QS. 
another one mistaken here. 
I'm using that texture from the Wad of Daikatana ep1, taken from Quaddicted's wad bank. After checking the vine texture it had the wrong background color (it seems like this is a common problem in Quaddicted's wad bank), so I fixed it and run it. Darkplaces still doesn't recognizes the transparency (is there a commandline that can fix this?), but Quakespasm runs it like it should:

Also lighttorches I underestimate them once again. 2stronk4me.
Speaking of light, fog comes out fine in Quakespasm but is non present in DP. Same thing with the sky texture, it's all black even though I put lights (sunlights still have light and shadow issues with ericw's compiler it seems, or the small sky openings in the cieling make things fuzzy somehow). What the hell 
Does not support alpha textures. That is the reason you need an external tga file 
"14 new posts! This gonna be goo ... oh." 
Lighting Giving Me The Finger 
So I don't know what the hell is going on. My start map is as for now divided by 2 sections: a short cave section, and the skill portal room. No matter what I do (and by that I mean changing light torches' light values, deleting some, up to just deleting all of them), the cave will always be flat-litted, but as soon as the skill chamber show its nose WHOOPS strong shadows and sunlight-quality shadows (At first I did add in sunlight2 but I decided to take it out because there wasn't any impact lighting-wise).
Just look (also in those shots light torches in the first section are supposed to be deleted, and worldspawn's light value is set to 170):
Also, somehow removing the fog key from worldspawn made the skybrushes visible again in DP.
I don't get it. 
What Delay Values 
are you using for your lights?
It looks like delay 3 lights(no falloff at all) from afar to me.

Use delay 2/5 for best results, also add the -addmin switch to your commandline for tyrlight. 
There's No Delay 
Did You Delete The Lit File? 
outdated lit files with the same file name get loaded by the engine anyhow, resulting in things like this.

Check values on worldspawn in your map that seem conspicous to you. Even a "sunlight_color x x x", or a "light" value.

Delete those too, report back. 
Some engines in some machines don't like 0-255 values for fog, you have to use 0-1 (like 0.2, 0.5, etc) for best compatibility 
^Also This 
Adib And The Fellow Above Him 
fog was already set on 0.3. It showed OK on Quakespasm but somehow not in DP.
A light key of 170 was still active in worldspawn, so I deleted it, just like the lit file (which I deleted once when my lighting problem occured, but it changed nothing).
Now though, after compiling (with the -addmin key still in) now everything is flat-litted (which is brigther than the initial value of 1170, so I assume it went back to 300), even the skill chamber.
What now? 
Dont use the worldspawn "light" key. Ever. It is better to start with a totally dark map.

It seems you have problems in doing what i adviced you to.

Are there any surface lights you may have overlooked?

To make this more clear. A map with no lights and a worldspawn "light" set to 0 should be rendered fullbright when loaded in engine.

So, assuming you deleted all lights and that worldspawn key, plus lit file, you should now see a fullbright map in the engine.

Now,as a test, put one torch in, and recompile. Report back. 
Just Put A Single Torchlight At The First Room 
It produces light and shadows as usual, and the rest of the map is pitch black. Water is fullbright but I guess this is a quake feature to allow liquid brushes to be recognizable no matter the light values.
Are things good now? 
I set fog to 0.3, but fog color like "64 192 255". Worked in MarkV at home, but gave me a white screen (like overbright fog) at every other machine. I changed it to "0.25 0.75 1" and now it works in all systems. 
this sounds good.

The waterlight issue is being worked on atm, this is standard quake light behaviour.

Glad to help! 
For Now 
You can "bypass" the "issue" of fullbright water by using an external 24bit texture. 
Daya Could Your Issues Be 
with DP? Search in this thread for #15623 and try compiling with the tools linked in that post. 
Nightmare Skill Detect Hack 
Hello there, I have been recently playing with Quake mapping and have absorbed a lot from these forums. I find myself stumped and would like to ask for assistance from the many experts here!

Following Preach's NM skill detect map hack I am receiving a crash on map load. Now I thought adding "ai_stand" "SUB_Remove" as a key-value pair would solve the issue but it does not.

I am probably missing something but any insight would be appreciated so I can cater Nightmare to my liking! >:)

Thank you! 
What's The Error Message? 
Error Message 
Ah I suppose that would help!

CALL0 986(?)
AI.QC : FindNewEnemy
AI.QC : AI_Run
Shambler.QC : SHAM_RUN1

That's the text I get when trying to load the map. For further details I am using an info_null and changing its classname to sham_magic11. 
your info_null is running AI functions which look for th_run (which isn't set) hence the 'NULL_FUNCTION' error.

Check your stuff over... 
That does seem to be the issue but as far as checking stuff over I merely followed the Preach maphack article regarding NM skill detection.

It states that you should get a crash and the fix is to include the ai_stand key with SUB_Remove value in order to "appease" the game since a function is running.

The article does say to use an info_notnull while I am using an info_null but that's the only one I see of the type. Since I am changing the classname is that a moot point?

Thanks for the replies! 
i don't know this hack, but 'ai_stand' as a key makes no sense. maybe he meant 'th_stand'? 
THat's It! 
Okay so having the "ai" instead of "th" was certainly the issue. The article states ai_stand so naturally that's what I entered! The map loads!

Thank you Necros! 
Spoke Too Soon 

So the th_stand key did work as the map loads. Now the issue is I do not believe the sham_magic11 (The unique cast of lightning only on skill level 3) is firing. Here is what I have:

classname: sham_magic11
th_stand: SUB_Remove

health: 1
target: ammo

shotgun shells with targetname: ammo

I have the sham_magic11 entity aimed to shoot towards the origin (0,0,0?) with the trigger_once in between.

The trigger works if I touch it/shoot it but the lightning does not appear to shoot off. I do check that skill is set to 3 before trying as well ;)

This is what I am using as reference:

I want to figure this out! 
Spoke Too Soon - The Reckoning 
Must have misjudged the origin point and my trigger.

I encased the origin point with trigger_onces' instead of my strong estimated single trigger and BAM things happen!

Apologize for the redundant post but hopefully it may assist someone else that hits a snag with this brilliant map hack.

I am really glad a community still exists for this game and such a great resource exist.

From preach's article:
1) Make sure the shootable trigger is earlier in the entity list than this lightning entity, or the lightning will shoot at something that�s not there. 2) ensure either that both shootable target and lightning are later in the entity list than everything you�d like to remove (or put a short delay on the shootable target); otherwise you�ll try to remove entities before they are spawned.

most likely the entity order is wrong.

the thing is, when you set a classname, when quake loads the map, it begins spawning entities in the order they are declared in the map file.
when an entity is spawn, quake checks all the functions defined in progs.dat and if it finds one which matches the name of the classname, it immediately runs that function. (if it doesn't find the name, then it just removes the entity).

this means that the lightning is being fired while the level is load so if the trigger is declared at a later point than the lightning, then it doesn't exist yet when the beam goes through.

you can try this:
classname: info_notnull (this is important, info_null entities are removed by light.exe because they are only meant for spotlight targets and become meaningless afterward)
th_stand: SUB_Remove
nextthink: 3
think: sham_magic11

no guarantee if that'll work or not, but this will make it fire 3 seconds after the level loads. i think this number could be 2, but i put 3 to guarantee it works.
between 0 and 1 seconds, entities are being loaded into the map, ammo boxes are being dropped to the ground, etc etc... 
i think more likely when you moved the trigger, it re-ordered the entities when the editor updated the map file. :P 
I Think You Are Right 
Thanks for the additional information Necros.

Yeah I was trying to make sure the trigger_once was before in the entity order by editing the .map file in a text editor before compiling. (Is that how you do it?)

The fact that info_null might be dead before the level loads is another great possibility. I will try the entity you defined today and see if it works!

For some reason I swear my test worked one time which is why I posted such but now it refuses to work...entity order and timing are probably the factors.

I will certainly not give up on this! 
It depends on your editor. In sikkpin 's editor I could just cut and paste and it would place that entity at the start of the list.
No t sure about TB or jack/hammer 
A Good Nightmare! 
Tried your not_null entity with the think keys and it works like a dream (Or should I say nightmare!)

I was able to spawn in an extra enemy and remove ammo ONLY if the skill level was 3. The only caveat is the number of kills on Hard mode will always be greater than the available monsters. But since this is also a pretty crazy hack to begin with, I will not complain!

I tested think at 1 and it acted without delay. I understand if I have any issues I will just up the number to 2 or higher.

Either way I am ecstatic that this is working and is consistently working! Thank you Necros for your help I greatly appreciate it. I do try to search this thread for help before posting but this one I would have never figured out on my own.

Oh I use TrenchBroom as my editor. I was editing the .map file with a text editor and then compiling to change entity orders. But with this think key I can bypass all that.

Fixed Post 
Thanks to necros for sorting this out while I was away, I've corrected th_stand in the blog post down.

Bonus idea: if you're worried about kills in nightmare, why not try killing off the monsters instead of using killtarget on them? The easiest way to do that would be to telefrag them, have some teleport triggers around them which you fire in hard to make the monsters smoosh together and die. In nightmare, you killtarget the teleport trigger so teledeath doesn't occur. You could even use the gibs for bonus decoration in hard... 
Great Idea Preach 
Thank you for the great blog posts, they are very useful!

Well the way I am doing it is having a monster with targetname "nm" with a delayed spawn.

The trigger_once that the sham_magic11 hits targets "nm"

I should have mentioned I am using Quoth haha. The telefrag plan is a good idea but I think if I actually have the full map pack finished I'll worry about the kill count. ;)

Much appreciated. 
maybe add a quick blurb about using think + nextthink. while it's not as clean as doing it via classname, it is simpler as entity order is no longer important. 
Gonna pester Xaerox at JH thread about entity order. 
Think Works Great 
I have fully implemented NM spawns/despawns in my map and it works fantastic. The only requirement is to not have any NM related "stuff" happen in the player's line of sight at the start of the level(Unless you want them to see their hopes in dreams vanish or appear in front of their eyes!). Looks like with a map with a lot of entities, nextthink 2 is ideal. 
Total Beginner Needs A Bit Of Help With First Ever Map 
I'm using TrenchBroom to make my first ever map. Testing it with DarkPlaces. All going well initially but now the map is starting to flicker, making parts of walls and floors momentarily transparent.

I've tried using the Point File to find leaks but can't figure out where they are or how to fix them.

This is all beginners' stuff, I'm sure. But we all have to start somewhere :)

Any advice gratefully received. Thanks. 
It's A DP Bug... 
set "r_useportalculling 0". I should report it properly.. 
Thanks Ericw 
Thanks for the quick answer. I tried that but still have the flickering. I think it's down to problems with the map as it only started after I built a new area.

Compiling the map gives me dozens of warnings but I'm not sure how to address them. As a total beginner, I've read a lot of guides but to no avail. 
Use a more standardized engine like Quakespasm or Fitzquake. Using Darkplaces adds a bunch of variables into the mix that you don't need to be concerned about right now. 
I think testing in a wide variety of engines is a good idea, the quake community is pretty fragmented. 
Various Engines Now Tested 
Thanks. I've now installed and tested my map with Quakespasm and Fitzquake. Both were flicker-free. So it was indeed a Darkplaces issue.

Annoying though as Darkplaces with hi-res textures made even my unfinished effort look nice! 
"Annoying though as Darkplaces with hi-res textures made even my unfinished effort look nice! "

Glare because looks are less important than gameplay? 
Just a personal belief that high res texture packs for Quake are the devil. 
Ah ok, got it. 
Annoying though as Darkplaces with hi-res textures made even my unfinished effort look nice!

I spent a while looking for a suitable reaction .gif to respond to this with, but got sidetracked and never did finish my quest. 
I had no idea that they were frowned upon. My post asking for advice was the first time I'd dipped a toe into these waters.

As an 'outsider', I like to play single-player Quake in Darkplaces with hi-res textures. It's fast and it looks great (to me, anyway). 
Kinn and I (and a few others) are pixelated purists. We can be annoying... 
It's a bit more than that. The general idea is that Quake is too low res in geometry to have hi res textures look good.

Realistic type spaces are hard to do for a similar reason - the player is a really fast dwarf, making it instead suited to cyclopian architecture.

Don't worry though - if you hang around here long enough I'm sure you can grow yourself a fine flowing neckbeard! 
A neckbeard is one thing but there's no way I'm moving into a basement! 
Not The Only Option! 
Soap Box (on top of)
Bridge (under)
Iceberg (if Vondur gives permission)
CZGs Anus (I hear it's nice this time of year)
And, of course, The Moral High Ground 
Careful Though 
You don't get into the bus and go joking about czg lower parts or sexual preferences. It's hard to unlock this badge. 
I like HD textures and Darkplaces can be beautiful, but I had this flickering problem using it. Entities like func_plat or func_wall flicker in some conditions I couldn't figure. Darkplaces also render shadow artifacts I don't see in other engines. If you like GL render and HD textures, have you tried EzQuake? 
Thanks for the suggestion. I tried EzQuake but it gave me "SV_Error: Programe error" and I was never able to start my map.

I'll try breaking my map down into separate chunks until I can find and fix the errors.

This might be a stupid idea but ... if there are problems with leaks ... would putting the whole map inside a huge box fix the problems? 
Boxing A Whole Map 
is a direct way into czg's anus to hell. don't ever do that. 
Two Places I Don't Want To Go 
Thanks for the tip 
"if there are problems with leaks ... would putting the whole map inside a huge box fix the problems? "

No, it would hide them. :) 
It's an idle threat. Several of my maps are inside a giant box ;) 
Just Fix Da Leex 
I've never found leaks difficult to fix - just load the pointfile in the editor and follow the line, as you would follow the candy trail to Shambler's false-number-plated white van parked in that abandoned building site. 
Follow The Line ... 
My line is like a spiral drawn by a blind child :(

However, I shall keep working away and look forward to having my finished creation pulled to pieces by all and sundry :) 
Hello again,

Found another obstruction this time in the form of map objects. Quoth shows support for a waterfall map object but I do not see it on the point entity map objects listing. I only see Custom, Grill, Grill 64, and Grill 128.

I tried using a custom map object but I can't find where the waterfall mdl would be...I searched through the Quoth pack files to no avail. Surely I am missing something but if anyone can provide assistance I'd appreciate it.

I think that's preach's waterfall, so it'd be up on his blog for sure. 
It Is Indeed Preach's 
Yes you are correct, I am using his Quoth tutorial articles and I must say they are an absolutely wonderful resource. The waterfall sounds perfect for the ideas I have in mind but the first step is to place down a waterfall_map_object which seems to be missing from my point entities list. I am using Trenchbroom if that makes a difference.

As I have said, I tried searching the Quoth pak files via PAK explorer and could not find any indication of a waterfall mdl file or anything similar. 
There's a generic model entity you can use. just download the model from the blog. 
Need To Search Deeper Next Time 
Ah, so I started digging deep into the models section of Preach's Blog which states he removed it from re-uploads due to enhancing the waterfall object.

Looks like I can just grab the model and go from there.

Only thing that appears to be a caveat at first glance is the missing keys that come staple with the mapobject_waterfall described in the Quoth pack *As seen here: Or maybe it is there...will check later tonight.

Thanks for the assistance! 
Sometimes You Need A Second Pair Of Eyes 
Alrighty, looking deeper into the wonderful Tome of Preach and I find the Quoth2.fgd Now Trenchbroom has that as a default selection but the one on Preach's Quoth page is updated with....

wait for it...

Among other entities I noticed missing.

Pretty certain this will be case closed but thanks again Necros for giving another pair of eyes.

I think the brightside is if someone in the future is having the same issue they can do a search and find these posts. ;) 
Waterfall Of Tears 
Okay, back again yay!

Waterfall object is there...I can place one (Blood waterfall is legit!) but no sound comes from the falls.

Tried sounds: 1 but that does not work either.

The PAK2 contains misc/wfstart.wav and wfend.wav so the sound exists. I can play the sounds with a play_sound entity but that's not ideal.

Furthermore, if I want to trigger the fall from starting or stopping I can do that just fine and the animations play but the sounds do not. For that I am using noise and noise1 for start and stop respectively. I don't see any console errors regarding the sounds so I am a bit puzzled. 
Triggered Sounds 
All the extra sounds key stuff is really there so you can have an easy to toggle sound for dynamic waterfalls, so the "sounds 1" key only works if you trigger the waterfall. You may want to try again now you've made it trigger. If you have a static waterfall then the play_sound route is the way to go.

Due to an oversight, the sound doesn't being playing until the waterfall is triggered to begin flowing; if it starts the map in flowing mode it will be silent. I'll add this to the fix list but a workaround in the meantime is to start the waterfall "dry" and then instantly trigger it when the level starts. 
...the sound doesn't begin playing... 
Waterfall Of Joyful Tears 
Thank you Preach, your explanation makes sense and works! Totally no problem to trigger when the level starts as it plays and turns off when triggered at the expected time.

I want to thank you for this waterfall feature, it is truly gorgeous and increases that creative flow. ;) 
Another Consideration 
It appears that the sound when only play if it is triggered from the dry state to flowing state...but it also must be within audible range of the player or it will stay silent.

I resolved this by having it trigger right before a door opens to the room with the waterfall puzzle. Just an observation! 
yeah, it'll stop when you leave listening range too :( 
this is a difficult problem in quake, in rubicon2 i tried to solve it by constantly triggering the sound when the player is within a medium range from the player, but this probably only works for white-noise type sounds since otherwise you'll hear clicking/popping i think. 
Interesting Metlslime 
Hmm, good to know that sometimes you just have to "wing it" with these things. My current waterfall situation is working 100% as much as I know it can so I am happy about it. I think I might stick with just aesthetic falls from here on out though. Those blood waterfalls just have to be used somewhere! ;) 
Few Questions Regarding Func_Train 
Am I understanding it correctly that path_corners need to be set at regular intervals along desired path, because they are sound emitters and not train itself?

In Preach articles I saw instructions for changing path once to alternate. Any other interesting tricks/hacks with trains and path?

Don't remember exact map name from original Quake that had a lift going between 3 floors stopping for a second at each floor. Was it func_train also? In any case how does it work? 
I think each corner has a wait of "-1" so it just waits at each floor until it gets triggered again. 
Is the map you are thinking about. I think they just had a large elevator like func_train with waits set to go off. So once triggered, it would go up to the second floor and wait for 3 or so seconds then proceed to it's third path corner. Since the original Quake can't re-activate a func_train when it reaches a corner set to wait: -1, I am thinking maybe they had a fourth path corner that is in the same spot as the second floor one that targets back to the 1st floor.

I would need to play the map again or check the source to be sure though! 
Is the map you are thinking about. I think they just had a large elevator like func_train with waits set to go off. So once triggered, it would go up to the second floor and wait for 3 or so seconds then proceed to it's third path corner. Since the original Quake can't re-activate a func_train when it reaches a corner set to wait: -1, I am thinking maybe they had a fourth path corner that is in the same spot as the second floor one that targets back to the 1st floor.

I would need to play the map again or check the source to be sure though! 
i don't think this is a feature of stock quake because to do it in rub2m2 i had to change the code. 
Idea For A Remake Of E2M6 
Up/down buttons for every floor of the lift.

Should be doable in AD... 
Or Just Remove The Lift Altogether And Replace It With Something Bette 

I hate that lift 
Make the lift a secret. And there is an instant death pit under it. 
Make the lift a secret. And there is an instant death pit under it.

DoomII.txt: the only way to complete the level is though the secret area.

Anyway this reminds me. I have just finished Doom II, Map 19 "The Citadel", by Sandy Peterson. Overall it's a pretty fun map, but the only way to the exit requires you to go through a secret area (like what da fuq does "secret" even mean at this point?), but anyway, whatever.

This map is notable however, for containing possibly the worst level design idea I've ever seen:

At a certain point in the level, there is a little alcove containing a powerup, a Soulsphere. Now I dunno about you, but when I find a powerup tucked away in a little corner like that, and there are no monsters around, and I don't need the powerup, I don't pick it up. I make a mental note that it is there, and go on my merry way. If I need it, I can quickly rush back and grab it.

So, I proceed to spend a sanity-destroying amount of time wandering around the entire map trying to figure out how the fuck to proceed. I give up after a while and consult a walkthough on the internet.

Turns out the way forward is via that powerup I found earlier. If you go to pick the powerup up, you don't actually pick it up, instead - nonsensically - you get teleported to a new bit of the map, which is the way to progress. (And no, before you ask, it's not sitting on a visible teleporter, it's just sitting in an ordinary, plain alcove).

Yeah, defend that, Doom level design apologists. 
Doom 2 Levels Are Pretty Crap I Don't Think Anyone Will Disagree 
Doom 2 
Had some terrible maps. 
E2m6 Is Pretty Much The Worst Doom Level Ever 
When looping, please please use at least two or three. I hate falling off just to have to wait for it to go all the way around the loop. And falling into instadeath under it is not cool. Have fun DeeDoubleU.

Yes path_corners tell the train where to go, but remember that it is the location of the lower left corner of the bounding box. 
When looping, please please use at least two or three. I hate falling off just to have to wait for it to go all the way around the loop. And falling into instadeath under it is not cool. Have fun DeeDoubleU.

Yes path_corners tell the train where to go, but remember that it is the location of the lower left corner of the bounding box. 
Stupid Phone 
double posting! :( 
Even if I will use an instadeath secret you would have to work your ass to get to it! 10 hidden switches and rampcirclejump at the very least.

Good idea to use two trains, will do. 
Speaking Of Secrets 
The func_door_secret is limited in that it only goes in two directions when opening. One could use the func_train to make an elaborate secret door, but it can only open once when you set the last path corner wait to -1. 
Could you use the angles key to allow for more directions? I seem to recall a Preach blog: 
Quoth2 Fgd 
Hi again,

Is there a link to acquire the most recent Quoth2.fgd file? The option I used was from Preach's Blog and while that is up to date, I don't see any mdl paths defined which causes just bounding boxes to display in the editor.

If I am expected to add the mdl paths myself I can do that but was just wondering if someone just had a quick link to the file.

Sorry if I am missing something! 
Which editor? 
TrenchBroom includes a Quoth2 FGD that displays models in the editor 
You have to make sure you point to the mod folder in preferences 
Sorry should have stated more details.

Using latest release of Trenchbroom. It comes with a slightly outdated Quoth2 fgd file than the one hosted on Preach's blog.

The problem I found is that the Preach Quoth2 fgd seens to not have mdl paths defined as they are in the Trenchbroom one. Hopefully that makes more sense.

Everything works...I just can't see the models within the editor. This is only a problem if I opt to use the newest Quoth2 fgd and not the one that is packaged with Trenchbroom.

Thanks for the replies! 
Okay, so I believe I have everything sorted. I just opened the trenchbroom Quoth2 file and the Quoth2.2 file and manually copied the missing entries across. Everything seems to be working with models showing.

For reference here was the problem I was seeing:

Ex: Envirosuit--

TB file =

@PointClass base(Item, Appearflags) model(":progs/suit.mdl") =
item_artifact_envirosuit : "Environmental protection suit" []

2.2 Quoth file =

@PointClass base(Item, Appearflags) =
item_artifact_envirosuit : "Envirosuit" []

The "updated" file is missing the model path and this is the case for all entity models in the editor.

That was my initial issue but there were only a handful of missing definitions so I just inserted them into the file with models already defined!

Cheers everyone, until next time! >;) 
it would be great if you could create an issue report on github and attach your file so that I can include it in future releases. 
Yeah, Cheers 
I really have been meaning to get around to that too! So if you've done it already, with your permission I'd love to grab a copy and post an updated version on the official site.

Do the model paths cause issues in other editors? Or are they safely ignored? I don't know if I need to keep a 2nd copy online for users of other editors... 
Oh Wow 
It is great to hear I wasn't just missing something obvious!

I will be happy to assist with the updated file.

Here is the updated Quoth2 fgd:

There were only a few things missing (waterfall, effect pulse, etc). And this retains all of the model paths.

I do not know about other editors but I imagine if the path to the mdl files are completely absent from the definition file that it would have the same issue.

SleepWalkR, I will report the issue! 
Trying To Make A Button Opening Two Rotating Doors 
It's guessing work when it comes to Scourge's rotating doors, but I think there needs to be a func_rotating_doors as the center of rotation for a given brush, and then have a rotate_object brush being targeted by said func_rotating_doors, but I digress.

I want a button to open two doors (which is actually one, just like in Scourge's E2M1) but since we can only target one thing I'm completely lost on making it work. I tried a trigger_relay but no, I really need a way for a single func to target two things at once. How can I do it? 
The func_button targets one door and a trigger_relay, which targets the other door.

The way func_rotate_doors are set up prevents them having the same targetname i guess.

Check the for details. 
Checking Ad_test3 
And I found that big circular door in 2 parts. One part is a func_door while the other in a rotate_object.

What's the difference between the twos if they're both assigned to a rotating entity? And what's the difference between info_rotate and func_rotate_door? Do their placement matters, as in the targeted brush's center of rotation, or no? And I'm getting a bit confused with the button targetting and all, can't we target more than two entities at once if they have the same target name? 
This sounds odd. Why shouldn't multiple rotating doors be able to have the same targetname...

Apart from that, one door can target the other, so there's no need for a trigger_relay. 
Another Thing Regarding Clip Brushes 
I wanted to create fences like in Doom, where no one can pass through but only attacks. My method would be to have a func_illusionary brush with a clip brush on it, but when testing the clip brush isn't there, I'm passing through the fence. Is there a workaround? 
the clip brush should be part of the world, not the illusionary.
if the clip brushes are part of the illusionary then it'll be non-solid, just like the rest of the func_illusionary geometry.
(they could also be part of a separate func_wall if you want to killtarget it to make it passable later, but you will may need to fiddle about with it in order to get the qbsp to accept it, depending on the qbsp) 
Clip textures on func_illusionary tends to crash my compilers 
Fixed It 
It was simple actually, have the func_illusionary brush be surrounded from both sides by 1 unit-thick clip brushes.

For that whole rotating brushes thing, can I get to know more about it? 
ad_test3s first rotating door (the "vault" door) is a bit trickier to explain, it is actually a func_rotate_train.

But first the normal door we all see everyday, with a vertical and fixed hinge. Build one of those out of as many brushes you want, these all go into an entity called "rotate_object".

Note there is no func_ prefix on this entity, idk who was so crazy to name it w/o this.. :) But the quoth fgd/def has it.

Give it a targetname, lets say rotate_door1 , and a target, lets say rotate_hinge1.

"targetname" "rotate_door1"
"target" "rotate_hinge1"

You must also set the light parameters like "_dirt" and "_minlight" on this one (if you want to).

Now create a "info_rotate", this is a point entity, important is you place it right on the vertical axis i.e when viewed from above or below in the middle of the hingebrush for best looking results.
This one is targeted by the rotate_object.

"targetname" "rotate_hinge1"

Now create a "func_rotate_door", again a point entity placed on the axis.
This one targets the rotate_object

"target" "rotate_door1"

This entity has all the keys for controlling the rotation of your door.

"speed" - the amount of time to open/close the door

"angles x y z" - the total angle the door rotates i.e.0 360 0 is one full turn vertical.

sounds/noise keys depending on the used progs.

"targetname" - last but not least this one must be targeted itself by a button/event of your choice.

Important note, these "doors" have no collision. You'd have to fake this with skip-textured func_doors/func_movewalls.

Try this guide first, vault-doors later (those are easier to fake collision for :))
What's In A Name 
Build one of those out of as many brushes you want, these all go into an entity called "rotate_object".

Note there is no func_ prefix on this entity, idk who was so crazy to name it w/o this.. :) But the quoth fgd/def has it.

Blame hipnotic! In Quoth we tried to name things with consistency in terms of func_ being solid brush entities, trigger_ being invisible brush entities, info_ being invisible point entities, etc. Most of the exceptions to the rule are things that would be too confusing to rename now, like trigger_counter. Unfortunately rotate_object is a name hard-coded into the compile process and there's no way to change it. 
Looking At Preach's Tutorial 
I don't get the part with the func_move_walls. I know they're part on making a collision mask, but for two side-to-side rotating doors how does it work?
Do I just make tiny cube brushes that form a quarter-circle from the closed position of the door to the theorized opened one? Or do I just make a single brush that I cut in an arc that's suposed to draw out the shape of the movement? 
Correction: CZG's tutorial

The movewalls should be shaped to approximate the size and shape of the visible entity while stationary. The ideas is that because you can't actually rotate solids in Quake, you have these small chunks which slide along a circular path.

It might be better to describe a couple of basic things you might create, and how to movewall them.

A door: cuboids which stretch from the top to the bottom of the door, are square on top, and exactly match the width of the door. In ascii, from above

========= (door)

[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] (movewalls)

A propeller: cubes along the length of each blade, flattened to the thickness of each propeller. 
Awww Yeaaah 
After some bits of trial and error regarding rotation angles I came through

(And here you can see fullbright pixels will be a huge problem) 
TexMex can remove fullbrights. 
Load the wad into TexMex. Double-click a texture. It will open in a "Detailed View" window. Right click on the texture and select "Adjust Brightness", then click "Remove Brites" in the "Brightness Adjust" window. 
I hope it works. I'm not sure I ever actually tried it.

I edit textures in an old version of PSP and have a custom quake.pal file where all the fullbrights are replaced with black. I just apply that (using match nearest color) to any texture where I want to get rid of stray fullbrights. 
It Worked Half The Time 
Some of the reworked pixels where fullbrights, so I had to edit them with Photoshop.
Nevertheless, they're gone now. 
Is there a hack to make explosions made of info_notnull deal zero damage? I need just a visual effect of explosion. 
Oh Yes 
Ogre grenade suits perfectly for this, thanks 
Is it possible to place an animated texture without animation frames playing (last frame I need) without making it a separate non-animated texture in wad? Like the button that have already been pressed? 
Figured That Out 
ignore the previous post 
Just use its switched-off frames as texture for your button, wall etc. 
so the +a*.* frame? 
But I read it as if PuLSaR is saying use one of the animation frames, not the 'off' (+a) frame.

I know that func_wall has some little known hackery inside that works with this, but can't remember what it is.

And now, reading it again, it seems that it is just setting the +a frame yeah. 
I just needed the +a frame, silly me 
Misc_explobox2 + Trigger 
I want explosion of misc_explobox2 to trigger stuff.
Tried 'default' and hacked triggers, but it seems they don't take damage from that entity.
Setting enemy:1 to box makes it shot-through. 
And another question.
Guys, how do you create caves?

Quick experiments taught me that it would be nearly impossible to do it in radiant or at least very long and masochistic experience.
Trying to use trenchbroom atm. Alas, it crashes often, but in the meantime gives much more freedom.

Technique I use is pretty much what was shown in TB tutorial-gifs - making a grid of 64x64 boxes and then pushing vertices.

It goes very slow and I'm not quite happy with my results so far.
Tips, rules, your personal general pipeline - I'm interested in everything. 
I use Netradiant, and it's as quick as TB in my experience if you work in tri prisms and drag-select multiple vertices. You can even do all the pushing and pulling in the 3d view, like in TB.

Once I'm happy with the shape, I combine the tris to make them quads, which halves the brushcount and probably makes the compiler happier.

The trick is knowing which configuration of tri prism pairs makes a convex quad, and it takes a while to develop an intuition for that.

Your probably better off sticking to TB. 
TB Tutorials? Where? 
Uhm, I Meant This

I wonder if there is testbuilds of TB2 available. 
You could try a trigger with health that's the same size as the box, that triggers the box, plus whatever else it is you want activating. 
Unfortunately I wasn't able to detonate the box by triggering it. 
I used tri-souping to make the opening cave area of the map I did for Fire and Brimstone (Detour), three walls and the roof anyway. The floor is flat with various bits and chunks added. The map is in the pak if you want to take a look. 
Exploboxes don't fire triggers, but they do work with buttons. 
Also - Essential Reading 
Look at sock's rock wall tutorials:

It's much more brush/face efficient than trisoup.

As a rule of thumb if I can use sock-style "rock wall" geometry for terrain/cave stuff, I will use that. I only do tri-soup for places where the above doesn't cut the mustard, and for joining disjointed bits together smoothly. 
Can you please get into more details with this?
Simply linking button or trigger to box does not work for me for some reason. 
Thanks for the link, Kinn, gonna check it out tomorrow. 
Small button with "health" "1" next to the box, so the exposion damage triggers it. See bbin1 for reference, at the end of the second level part. 
Button That Works Only After A Trigger Fires 
I'm possibly missing something obvious, but is there a way to do the following two related things?

(1) make a button that activates when the player touches it but that cannot be activated until after a particular trigger is fired.

(2) make a door that opens when the player approaches it but not until a particular trigger is fired. 
Could it be as simple as an invisible func_wall in front of the button that you killtarget later? 
Yes, That Works 
Yes, that works. Actually, I had thought of something like this but for some reason convinced myself that func_wall wasn't implemented in Quake.

Thanks for putting me right. 
UE3 Question 
This should be something really simple but it is driving me insane :/

Ok, so I have a prop properties page open in UE3 editor and in this prop I can assign other props to die when this prop dies, all I have to do is input the name of the props I want.

One of the buttons says "use current selection item in the content browser" but if I select the thing I want in the content browser it brings up the properties for that item and I can no longer enter it into the ui.

I can see no way to copy the name of the item either.

So, it seems the only option is to type out an insanely long reference name which I will inevitably fuck up somewhere and create bugs.

What gives?! 
Your 2nd question needs something like this i think: 
Did my tweet not help? Locking the property window will stop it from changing the window when you click another actor.

And typing in the name won't fuck anything up because it won't take a bad name ... the name will have to exist or it won't accept it. 
Since When Do Tweets Help? 
wait a second.. 
Thanks Warren you are a life saver. That was driving me mental!

btw : I accidentally a xcom 2 map pack

Will probably work on it some more tomorrow. 
Thanks. Building a logic gate in that way is definitely something I hadn't thought of, but makes a lot of sense now. 
my jam2 map used one of those, exactly for the stuff you described(open a door when an event has fired/happened). Glad to help! 
Simple Things 
(2) make a door that opens when the player approaches it but not until a particular trigger is fired.

While it's cool that my logic gate got another outing so soon after the last one, there's an easier way to do what you need here. Create the door with a targetname, then add a trigger_multiple around the door to define the area you enter to open in. Once you're happy with that trigger, use the trick from... make it a spawnable trigger_multiple. Before you've spawned it there's no way to trigger the door to open, afterwards it opens as soon as you go near.

Of course, if you need the ability to rescind and reactivate the proximity trigger repeatedly, then the logic gate is the way to go. In the case you described, I think you only need the transition from off to on to happen once, so I'd recommend this way as being easier to build. 
A button that doesn't work is counter intuitive to me. I would at first be inclined to think that the mapper messed something up.

It seems better to me that access to the button simply be physically blocked.

I suppose it might work if there was an extremely obvious reason for the button to do nothing. 
You Could... 
Use a trigger_multiple to give you a message saying "button inoperable, power disabled" and then killtarget it later. 
Yep, that's the kind of obvious I was talking about. 
Falling Through Sloping Floors? 
So I've been cutting up a large flat horizontal brush and than cutting away at the constituent pieces at all sorts of angles to create a floor that looks naturally uneven. When I tested it in-engine just to see how it looked, I fell right through one part of the floor, as if the brush were a func_illusionary. Then I remember having seen this in a few other maps too (I think one was a speedmap by FifthElephant and one was one of Tronyn's Unforgiven maps).

Does anyone know why this happens and/or how to avoid it? 
Welcome to Quake mapping. :) 
Cover it with clip brush. 
Sloped Quakes 
Quake and slopes sometimes get into little arguments with each other. Clip brushes try to keep the peace and let everyone live in harmony. 
Hull Problems 
This can happen for two reasons;

1. Depending on the method of construction and editor used you'll get tiny misalignments. This is the reason for most if not all corrupt brushes.

2. The engine just doesn't like a specific brush configuration.


1. Make sure everything is on grid - don't use carve, be clever with vertex manipulations (no concaves, make everything either wedges or pyramids if you want terrain). If you're clipping then clip across the entire brush, from grid point to grid point.

You may need to delete and rebuild bad brushes.

You can also get sticky brushes, where a tiny (invisible) overhang is in the floor - you run into it and get stuck.

2. Move stuff around. This isn't a common problem unless your geometry is very simple and pretty big. 
Clip Brushes 
These will solve hull problems, but they're a kind of 'ah fuck it' solution that can cause other headaches.

The floor / wall can still leaks for example, or end up requiring a lot more lightmap that you won't even see. Or produce isolated pockets of space outside your level which won't break anything but is better avoided.

Sock's tuts on terrain: 
And another problem - many people assume that terrain requires much longer vis times, the truth is both yes and no.

Typically there are these misalignment issues in places where the player won't notice, like in the walls or ceiling.

The other thing these cause is unnecessary vis calculating.

Not a big deal with multicore compilers, but it can be the difference between it taking 5 or 10 minutes, and if you're compiling frequently (as you should be to avoid it exploding in your face after adding new stuff) then this can slow you down a lot. 
Thanks, Ijed! 
That was the kind of explanation I was hoping for.

I had a look at Sock's tut but am finding it a little hard to understand in terms of TB and Quake, as it seems to be more about later brush-based games and things I can't do when mapping for Quake ... unless I've misunderstood something. Maybe it just assumes more prior knowledge than I have.

DeeDoubleU, Bloughsburgh -- I had also actually thought of just plonking a clip brush down in the offending spot, but I wanted a better understanding of what was actually happening. Thanks for responding, though! 
Avoid triangular faces (tri-souping) when building your structures, especially floors/walls.

Socks tut uses quadfaces as well if you look closely. The quake engine uses a rectangular "brush" to clip the player against the several hulls.

This CAN be a problem, with more complex structures it is more likely to encounter those problems.

Stay on grid, and what Ijed said. 
I use quads for the structure and tris over it for details.

You could also grab the RRP devkit from its thread and open up the telefragged map to see my method, which was done in Trenchbroom. Mfx' and Hrimfaxi's also have terrain of course, just not sure on the editors used. 
What is wrong with trisoup so long as it has been converted to a func_wall?

Incidentally, if I have multiple details, outdoor trisoup areas, trim, etc. and I make all of it one single big func_wall entity, is there an issue? E.g., will it flicker in some places? Does the world origin need to be visible from every leaf for this to work?

Curious about the theory behind it. 
Re: Mfx & Ijed 
Thanks so much for both your replies.

I was just about to ask whether anyone knows of any other Quake terrain tutorials (something along the lines of czg's curve tutorial, for instance), because at the moment I can't seem to wrap my head around it. I'll definitely have a look at the Telefragged source to see what I can learn & if I can extrapolate your method from your brushes.

Thanks again! 
Compile often, check for errors often.
Seal your map for those tests, a big brush will usually do this on areas you haven't worked out yet.

There is a super-simple way of creating terrain, any complex terrain, sadly i can only produce this with the Quark editor for now. I have tried to describe my experience with that often and most honest, but there is no way currently to describe it as just use quad-faces.

Study the sources, look at how i use overlapping brushes very often to achieve terrain.

And when i find a spot where the clipping fails, and no change to the brushes does affect this, i use clip brushes to conceal those errors. As a last resort so to say..

Again, don't get stuck on details while building, block out generously, any finetuning you can always do later.

Important is the pacing, the general "flow", and and exit.

Some even might say those details are just a special kind of expressing an OCD. (no offense..) 
For the less OCD:

Jackhammer has a "rock" primitive. It lets you create a (somewhat) randomized mesh with a certain number of vertices. It's quick, dirty, somewhat painless way of making a rough wall or just a plain boulder. Pretty neat I'd say, if just a bit...well, ok a lot...messy. 
inspect this carefully, you'll notice all brush sides are orthogonal(i.e. 90�). Imagine an egg-slicer, i use this description for my approach quite a lot.

It creates a "hump" out of rectangular brushes, so to say. From there on, it is not hard to build a terrain mesh.

Just rotate the sliced egg 90� degrees to have an approx. mesh. All sides are pointing in the same direction, any transformation has to keep this.

This sounds weird, i know. Once you get the knack of it, it becomes easier, but never really easy.

Thanks For The Additional Responses! 
Hmm, it seems I have a lot of homework to do to figure out terrain brushes. Not sure I'm ready for a second or third editor just yet, but perhaps?

As for blocking out vs getting bogged down in detail work, yeah, I'm doing things exactly wrong at the moment, as I've been basically working on one room of a map since forever (and I've rebuilt that room countless times). At this rate I'll need about 100 years to finish my first map. But it's all part of the learning process, right? 
Guys... why is this happening?

Earlier I noticed wizards will occasionally fly through a door for unknown reason. Door has no slopes, not even a 45 degree angles, 1 plain box brush.

Now this.
Fishes escape from their tank and chasing me throughout the level, but they can move in solid worldspawn geometry only O_o

I think it mostly happens when I'm noclipping, though not sure. 
Scrags & Fish 
DeeDoubleU, someone else is bound to have a far better answer than me, but the mean time I'll risk embarrassing myself:

AFAIK both of these behaviours are known bugs but nobody knows exactly why they happen. I recall having read a few discussions where experienced mappers were stumped, especially by the Scrag thing. According to this post you might be able to avoid the issue by not cramming too many of the offending monster into the same enclosed space...

Or wait for someone who knows what they're talking about to answer. :) 
This Is Just Guesswork And Vague Memory Talking... 
It's a weird bug caused by the navigating I believe since both fish and the scrag use point collision (not bbox) to manage their movement, but a bbox to receive collisions.

So they find a bit of geometry that they don't like for some reason and it pops them into an invalid volume outside the world, and then they can't get back in.

Scrags usually can because the flymonster behaviour gives them a bit more movement.

I suspect its something to do with the discrepancy of the center point and the bbox corners.

I know that brush misalignments can cause this (like with the player), but so can perfectly clean brushwork that the offending monster manages to get stuck on and then clip through.

Mapside, the solutions are basically either delete your fish or change the areas where they are used until it stops happening.

Scrags are best used outdoors so that they don't push themselves up through a ceiling trying to match heights with the player - which seems to be the main cause of this for them.

This was the main reason I experimented with small fish, but ran out of time / gave up before I could get a decent handle on it. 
I've seen scrags move through solid geometry many times, but I don't remember ever seeing flying fish. Maybe that's just because fish aren't used nearly as much. 
Messages In Queake 
I use trigger_multiple but I don�t know how to use the specifics. 
That's One Way To Do It. 
If you want a message to stay on the screen longer, you can string multiple triggers with delays containing the same message.

Add \n to start a new line if a message becomes too long.

Not sure what you are asking but that's a start for messages in vanilla Quake. 
Key 'message'
Data 'whatever you want to say' 
Mapping Help 
I need advice.

What's the appropriate combat for a maze-like map? I mean, in a set of interconnected hallways how encounters should be? 
Every ten seconds, two front spawns and three back spawns in bbox contact with the player. 
What Kinn said. 
I believe he said spawns... ;) 
Setup One Long Path Loop Throughout Maze, Patrol Liberally 
OK, im working in it now 
Posting... ... 
So rare, I add a specific in a trigger in QuArK and it does not able, but I make again in TB and it does work. Im yet working... 
Changing Theme 
It's normal that QuArK finds holes in the map without being it? I brushing in TB but when I open QuArK to Qbsp and test, sometimes said "there is a hole in your map" and time later I do not move any brush, I change a trigger config and it back to Works in qbsp. 
Bad Quark 
Quark stores no floater points on brushes, so every time reloading the map it slightly differ integers. So mostly there is that message.

Better take a "better" editor, took time to use GtkRadiant or TB.
There is the option to select all verts and force them to grit. 
Put Monsters In 
1. In such a way you think it'll be fun.

2. Play map.

3. Alt tab out if you think of a way it could be more fun.

4. Make change in editor.

5. Alt tab back to game.

6. Repeat step 3.

7. Once level is complete, recompile.

1. Repeat from 1.

This is the recipe for getting good. 
Ok And Thanks 2 (2) 
MadFox: GtkRaadiant have visible grid lines? 
Great Advice Ijed! 
i just fill every available space with monsters. 
And Don't Forget About Spawns 
what trigger I need for an Introduction changelevel???...... or what specific???... 
But actually you all ended up giving me an idea. Let's see if it works.

Also, what Qmaster said. 
GtkRadiant1.4 has several coloured grid settings, I prefer white lines on black.

Introduction changelevel?
Put in a trigger_multiple, add a corresponding trigger brush, and fill in a short message.
Or if you ment tigger_changelevel and fill in the map you want to continue with, e1m2. 
Reply: MadFox 
When you enter to a level from start.bsp, appears "loading".
But when you enter from a single map, appears "kills 13/13, secrets 2/3".

I don't know what to put in the Introduction(start) for going to e1m1. 
Yeah, has no intermission screen. How does that work again? 
I think it's "spawnflags" "1" on the trigger_changelevel for no intermission 
"Intermission": Solved trouble!
that's I complicate me with the language.
I use google trans but I don't believe so much in it. 
I Forgot How Doors Work 
... apparently. I could have sworn that when I previously made a brush into a func_door in TB, it would move (or "open") when the player approached it if I didn't tinker with the default entity values.

Now I've just made two bog-standard door-shaped brushes inside an arch and turned both into func_door, and when my player character approaches or even touches them, nothing happens. Each func_door is 64 units wide and "lip" is set to 8. I've tried changing "lip" to a different value and changing "angle" to a different value, but to no avail. Am I missing something obvious? 
Try creating simple box, make it func_door and test. If it works - start adding keys and check if any will break it. 
Did you add a targetname? 
Make Sure Toggle Isn't Checked. 
A door "not opening" is usually because it has a targetname like necros stated. Do not give the func_door any keys except for an angle for testing. 
In Case Of Any Problem With Func_door 
check 'Don't link' spawnflag. It usually fixes all problems if door doesn't open (if there are other doors nearby) 
And The Old Chestnut 
The is_linked flag breaks double doors if turned on and they're targeted. 
Thanks For All The Answers 
No I did not add a targetname. I did not touch the default entity settings at all (except for changing the angle and lip in desperation, but this was after things didn't work).

I didn't link them either, at least not as far as I know. What should the "Key" and "Value" fields be for unlinked doors? 
linking is automatic.

first, put the 'door don't link' flag on both of the doors, test and see if it moves. 
Err, I Don't Know How To Do That. 
In TB, there are these "Key" and "Value" columns, e.g. "classname" (Key) and "worldspawn" (Value). Which Key/Value combination should I specify to put a 'door don't link' flag on both doors? (Sorry to have to ask you to re-explain).

What I did try in the mean time was to turn one of the func_doors back into a world brush, figuring that if there's just one, there's no way it could be linked. But that didn't solve the problem either... 
total newbie

spawnflag 4 is what they mean 
Thanks, 5th 
That didn't work either, though. Odd. 
Try To Change Angle 
it sometimes breakes with angle = 0. Try an angle that is different from zero. 
Tried various angles; no luck.

I've just created a new brush and converted it to a func_door, and it's the same story. When I don't touch the default Keys & Values, it just doesn't work.

This is what TB shows me when I create a brand new func_door. Is there anything there that I should change? So far I've tried changing the values of the keys "lip", "angle" and "spawnflags" (from "0" to "4"), but to no avail...

By the way, thank you very much to everyone who's responded so far. 
I made a door in gtkradiant, tested it just to be sure it is working and opened map in TB.
Here is what it looks like

Maybe try voodoo magic tricks if nothing else works?
Can you remove all over keys except classname and spawnflags ans check if it helped? 
TB doesn't allow me to remove any of the default keys; I can just change the value.

Anyway, I've finally managed to create a working door elsewhere in the same map. The strange thing is, though, that I've created it in exactly the same way as the first one -- the brushwork is even almost identical. The first one still doesn't move at all, though.

I'm completely confused now. 
Can You Post The .map? 
yes, it's very likely because of door linking.

doors link automatically if their bounding boxes are touching. what is happening is a door nearby has a targetname which is causing your new doors to link and also require a trigger to open. 
I have specified no targets or targetnames anywhere in this map; the door (or set of doors) was the first brush entity I created in the map. Everything else was just world brushes and one info_player_start.

I can copy and paste just the door, arch and floor brushes into an empty .map file and get the same result. In fact, I just tested with a brand new map, making the simplest of doors with just 4 world brushes and a single func_door, and it still doesn't work.

This is what this new test map looks like in a text editor:

// Game: Quake
// Format: Standard
"classname" "worldspawn"
( -304 -64 -16 ) ( -304 -63 -16 ) ( -304 -64 -15 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 656 64 16 ) ( 656 64 17 ) ( 656 65 16 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( -64 -320 -16 ) ( -64 -320 -15 ) ( -63 -320 -16 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 64 400 16 ) ( 65 400 16 ) ( 64 400 17 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 64 64 16 ) ( 64 65 16 ) ( 65 64 16 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( -64 -64 -16 ) ( -63 -64 -16 ) ( -64 -63 -16 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 464 208 208 ) ( 496 -192 208 ) ( 464 -192 208 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 464 -192 16 ) ( 464 208 208 ) ( 464 -192 208 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 496 -192 208 ) ( 464 -192 16 ) ( 464 -192 208 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 496 208 16 ) ( 496 -192 208 ) ( 496 208 208 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 464 208 16 ) ( 496 208 208 ) ( 464 208 208 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 464 48 128 ) ( 464 32 128 ) ( 592 32 128 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 464 -192 16 ) ( 464 208 208 ) ( 464 -192 208 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 496 -192 16 ) ( 464 208 16 ) ( 464 -192 16 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 496 208 16 ) ( 496 -192 208 ) ( 496 208 208 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 464 208 16 ) ( 496 208 208 ) ( 464 208 208 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 464 48 128 ) ( 592 32 128 ) ( 464 32 128 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 464 64 96 ) ( 592 64 64 ) ( 464 64 64 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 464 -192 16 ) ( 464 208 208 ) ( 464 -192 208 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 496 -192 16 ) ( 464 208 16 ) ( 464 -192 16 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 496 -192 208 ) ( 464 -192 16 ) ( 464 -192 208 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 496 208 16 ) ( 496 -192 208 ) ( 496 208 208 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 464 48 128 ) ( 592 32 128 ) ( 464 32 128 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 464 -64 64 ) ( 592 -64 80 ) ( 464 -64 80 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
"classname" "info_player_start"
"origin" "392 -0 40"
"angle" "-0"
"classname" "func_door"
( 472 -192 16 ) ( 472 208 208 ) ( 472 -192 208 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 496 -192 16 ) ( 464 208 16 ) ( 464 -192 16 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 480 208 16 ) ( 480 -192 208 ) ( 480 208 208 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 464 48 128 ) ( 592 32 128 ) ( 464 32 128 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 464 64 96 ) ( 464 64 64 ) ( 592 64 64 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
( 464 -64 64 ) ( 464 -64 80 ) ( 592 -64 80 ) __TB_empty 0 0 0 1 1
More Questions 
In a trigger_teleporter I don't know how to use the target and targetname... 
Use angle "-1" for up and "-2" for downward door.
An angle of 360 won't work, either as because the door can only move 90 or 270.

See here for your map.

Thanks, Jneeraz 
"classname" "func_door"

"angles" "0 270 0"
( 472 -64 16 ) ( 472 64 16 ) ( 472 -64 128 ) #DEFAULT [ 0 1 0 0 ] [ 0 0 -1 0 ] 0 1 1
( 480 64 16 ) ( 480 -64 16 ) ( 480 64 128 ) #DEFAULT [ 0 1 0 0 ] [ 0 0 -1 0 ] 0 1 1
( 472 64 16 ) ( 480 64 16 ) ( 472 64 128 ) #DEFAULT [ 1 0 0 0 ] [ 0 0 -1 0 ] 0 1 1
( 472 -64 16 ) ( 472 -64 128 ) ( 480 -64 16 ) #DEFAULT [ 1 0 0 0 ] [ 0 0 -1 0 ] 0 1 1
( 472 64 16 ) ( 472 -64 16 ) ( 480 64 16 ) #DEFAULT [ 1 0 0 0 ] [ 0 -1 0 0 ] 0 1 1
( 472 -64 128 ) ( 472 64 128 ) ( 480 -64 128 ) #DEFAULT [ 1 0 0 0 ] [ 0 -1 0 0 ] 0 1 1

This should work. 
I changed the texture. You're missing the key "angles" in this door entity. 
are you sure its angles? I always just set "angle" with a single float value. 
Thanks for the responses once again.

adib, TB won't allow me to set an "angles" value. I could of course just try to do it manually in a text editor, but I'd like to get this working in-editor. It shouldn't be this must hassle just to get a door to work...

Madfox, the map you pasted above works perfectly when I compile it, but when I try to do the same thing in TB, it doesn't work.

I assumed this was a case of PEBCAK, but maybe it's an editor issue? I am using the latest test build of TB2, so I guess it's possible that this might be some weird bug... 
"this much", not "this must" 
2 Problems... 
1- trigger_multiple: I wrote a message, and, how I can use the INTRO button for the message? When press intro in TB the message don't get it.

2- Texture offset: what's up with the QUAKE, NORMAL, HARD textures? I changed the scale and the offset for the design, but when I test the map appears misaligned. 
_@newbe : map loads perfect in TB1.

-@JB : if your trigger_multiple has a brush with the clip.tex
you don't need an intro by way of trigger_touch. Just make sure you end the message with a "n" option and has not more then 6 or 8 words. 
Total Newbie 
Make sure you use the latest build. There was a bug with entity properties that I fixed yesterday. 
Just Updated 
That actually made things worse... The doors still don't work, and now I can't edit the entity properties at all.

Should I post this on github, or am I doing something stupid? 
Lol, I mean said that the INTRO keyboard button: I press it, and after, the message, in process of writing, the message don't gets this space down and message in game appears outside the screen, for write enough words.

I need how to write plus two verses in a message(Trg_multiple). 
I Guess You Mean ENTER Key 
If so, do as MadFox said

message "line 1 \n line 2" 
Metl, Jackhammer produced that "angles" entry when I changed door's orientation in editor. That door wasn't working, but did work when I set that. 
Sorry Mad & Adib 
I don't dominate the english, I know some words but not all. :s 
"Deedouble" I want mean 
On The Double Dee U 
the mad fox jumps over the langu aged dog. 
Ai don't understand your chist, HBO 
@-johnison: I'm joking. Half of the time I don't know how to handle another language either. Reason I use Google translate, nevermind. :P 
yes I know, In my country we change the names to another similar for joking,
"natgeo-HBO" ;D 
Working Yet In An Introduction 
how I do a teleporter(portal) to select difficultys? 
key: message
value: 0 - 3 (easy - nightmare) 
Ok, thanks. 
john romero released all the map sources a little while ago:

while i would not recommend them as a study in how to do brushwork, you can see how they set up all the entities to do what you saw in the game. 
Thanks, that would been helpful for me. 
Mdl Lighting 
Anyone know of any hacky workarounds to get a .mdl to light up with a different light level to what's underneath it? 
Bsp Texture As Skin? 
Is it possible to use skin key (or any other hack method except making a mod) to assign texture from my map's bsp file? 
Less hacky, but annoying to set up: configure a tightly focused light (high wait, high brightness / strong antilight) so only affects one lightmap sample, and position this at the entity origin.

If that would still be visible: Make a sunken pit under the model with the desired light level at the bottom, cover it with a func_wall to hide it (I forget if monsters will walk on that?) 
Do Tyrann's Tools 
Only support forced light settings on brush entities? 
Yeah, Only Brush Entities 
Supporting minlight on func_detail/func_group would be doable, just messy to implement since qbsp has to do part of it. 
Cheers, so I guess the model lighting only picks up the light from the world, and not brush entities?

I quite like the idea of putting a tight speck of light under the model - can minlight work as a spotlight? That could be one way of easily getting a fixed lightlevel in a small spot? 
Yep, mdl lighting does a traceline (straight down) against the world model only, and samples the lightmap brightness where the trace impacts. I'm not sure if any engines change this behaviour to include bmodels.

Unfortunately, combining local minlight (delay 4) with a spotlight appears to be unsupported in tyrutils (just a bug / oversight), I added it to my bug list. 
cheers - minlight spotlights sound like they could be a very easy way to do it, when you get round it of course, no rush :} 
some engines, including fitzquake, lerp between the 4 closest lightmap samples instead of just taking a single sample. This will affect what you see if there is a high-frequency change in the lightmap under a model 
Ah cheers.

I imagine I'll just make it look ok in QuakeSpasm and call it a day. 
Finally Last Qstions 
I finally finishing my Intro for a quake game, all entities has very good. But, 2 last questions for details:

1- exist volume key for an ambience sound trigger? default?

2- In a func_buttons of a counter to open a door, how I set to not move the buttons?(cause they are shootable, health 1) 
Values: Sound Attenuation

ATTN_NONE = 0; // full volume everywhere in the level
ATTN_NORM = 1; // normal

func_button on counter no move

classname func_button
target X
targetname counter target
speed 100
wait -1
health <0 >1000
Oh, I Thought He Didn't Want Button To Physically Move 
trigger its targets without sliding.
If this is the case then use
lip XX
where XX is thickness of your button 
My Problem With Button(screenshots) 
Try Lip 32 
Not Works Lip 
Change the angle so it moves backwards. That way it will be less noticeable. 
5th Elephant 
Works :D 
i'm not sure, but i think buttons always have to move at least 1 unit (or less than 1). so lip 31.999 might work...

of course, fifth's solution is much simpler. :) 
Buttons Fon't Have To Move At All. 32unit Square Button, 32 U Lip 
Lol, when I read the last messages the map was finally ended. Thanks to all yours I made a map for first time, was started hard, but all help Works to me.
When ended the game proyect, I think in help for a hard mapping trigger idea. 
How I Make A DEMO?... 
Enter: record mydemo in the console. Then load the map 
and then type stop in the console when you are done recording. 
in e2m1 and e3m1 of quake appears the key card, how I get it on TB editor? 
set "worldtype" in the level properties, that controls the style of keys that appear.

Can't remember if it is 1 or 2 for tech style keys 
It's 2 
Once every year I keep coming back for some Q1 mapping, testing new or old things =D

Anyone used Jackhammer, or well, ofc someone have, but anyone use it "default" instead of something else? 
A lot of people are using Jackhammer these days. Daz, Ionous, PuLSaR to name a few...

Most people are using it as a replacement for WorldCraft. 
out of curiosity, how many people are using radiant now? i know some radiant users moved over to TB. I wonder if it's about split evenly now? 
Pretty sharp brushes, but dark viewport.
Never could make the setup to qbsp though.
GTKRadiant 1.6.0 
Used it for everything, but vertex manipulation only works for simpler stuff (or maybe it is my hands "growing out of ass" as we say here).
Now using TB for complex rocks. 
"Pretty sharp brushes, but dark viewport."

Yes, default is dark, but there is a gamma setting in Edit> Preferences> Display> Textures. 
+1 For Jackhammer 
I only use Jackhammer currently. 
Jackhammer Vertex Manip 
I wonder, I get corrupt brushes from even the simplest (I think) brush manipulation, like trying to create a cliff side or such, is this a fault in the program or the compile tools perhaps? 
It's a bug (feature?) left from WorldCraft - basically there is no brush validation when manipulating verts, so it lets you create rubbish.

However, I believe JH has an option somewhere to enable brush validation, which should prevent this. (I don't use JH so haven't tried it myself). 
Noob Map Maker Needs Some Help. 
So, I just started using TrenchBroom to make maps. It worked out fine, but I'm having an issue with my map from my server. My pc loads textures fine, but my laptop shows textureless. The error given says that I need a miptex lump. What is it, and how can I add this file to my server?
are the textures in the bsp or are they replacement (.TGA) textures? 
I don't know. I was able to extract the textures from the BSP though, so probably. 
does the source of my textures matter? 
Also, here is the output of my bsp compiler
------ FinishBSPFile ------
WriteBSPFile: maps\bigroom.bsp
94 planes 1880
522 vertexes 6264
116 nodes 2784
17 texinfo 680
366 faces 7320
603 clipnodes 4824
56 leafs 1568
398 marksurfaces 796
1820 surfedges 7280
911 edges 3644
0 textures 0
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 1965

The textures says 0, so idk what is going on there. 
Gonna Need Way More Than That. 
what is your set up (where are your files, .map, .wad)
what compilers?
what is in the 'wad' key's value in the worldspawn of the map? 
So, the only compiler I'm using is TxQBSP. I don't know if I need other things. My .wad file was ripped from quake, and I put it directly into the maps folder (id1\maps\textures.wad). I don't know how to respond to your last question. 
My .map file is moved into the same directory as the compiler also (compilerfiles/maps/ 
The .map file needs a list of the wads used so the compiler can find them and embed the textures in the bsp.

Add a key/value to worldspawn:
"wad" "textures.wad"
and make sure textures.wad is in the same directory as the .map when you compile it. That should fix the "0 textures 0" message.

If you have .tga replacement textures installed on the system where the map was displaying textures, that would explain why. 
for the last question, in TB, select any non-entity brush and then look at the keys in the list and look for the 'wad' key, then paste what is there here.

but most likely, judging from where you said the wad file is, the wad file is in the wrong folder.

with quake, the textures are baked into the bsp file when compiling, and you don't place the wad file in the map folder.

the .wad file must be placed in the same path as specified in the wad key.

so if the wad key says "gfx\quake.wad"

that means your quake.wad file must be in a path relative to the .map file.

so say you had:
your wad file would need to be in:
Thanks a lot! The map worked when I put it on my server, and when I tested it locally. I use darkplaces, so maps will auto download when a client joins. Idk if classic Quake was like that though.
Anyway, thanks again! 
this is interesting... so he had external textures installed which masked the fact that the bsp had no textures inside when played in a local game, but when downloading from a qw server the textures aren't loaded by the client? Does a bsp with no textures still have the proper texture names? Does a downloaded map have different behavior for loading external textures?

Anyway this is a novel way for a new mapper to be confused. 
Well, It's Done! 
So, I made my map. I have no idea how good it is, as it was designed for about 2-4 players, and played with someone once. When I played with my friend, we had lots of fun! I'm going to submit it here so you guys can try it out and tell me if anything is wrong with it. (Yes, I know the texture alignment is fucked up). 
Also, I don't have any light sources in the map right now. You might have to turn some lighting effects off to actually see what you're doing. 
texture alignment is the least of your worries. Definitely need to add lighting. I like that you went with the blue theme, it's not seen often.

The map is basically a single room. Nothing wrong with a central atrium, especially as your first map, but the map isn't too much fun IMO. There's no 'down-time' and it's hard to gain a footing. You need to think about a couple of ways at getting up to the top. I would suggest that the 'corridors' that you spawn in on the bottom floor are fleshed out a bit more and that you can get to the next floor up safely through these corridors.
I found myself kind of blasting rockets from the corridors as a tactic because the central atrium is straight up death. 
Also the map is basically symmetrical. Not just on one axis, but on two axes.

Symmetry makes the environment more homogeneous and boring, and makes it hard for the player to orient himself. 
Thanks for the feedback. I understand why you gripe about the symmetry of the map, but I do it to keep things completly balenced between all players. I think this is a con on a small map like mine, but larger symetrical maps work great in my opinion. Orentation should not be that much of a problem, I had no trouble with that (well, I designed it, so that may just be me.) I understand the footing problem though, the second floor is fine, because it has a wall you can hug onto, but the very top is difficult to travel on. Im thinking of just filling in the top floor, leaving a hole to get to the quad damage. I also agree with the corridors, because someone can easily camp them, so I may want to just open them up completly. My idea of getting to the top floor safely were those little ramps, they are not asthetic. Anyway, thanks for the response! 
Also, how good was it for my very first map? 
Kinn, Note 
Just realized that I was explaining my ramps wrong. When I was typing that last response, I realized that I was thinking of the ramps in the wrong direction. The player has to take more time to go around the ramp and go up it, rather than just going up it. I'm going to fix that. 
I'm not gonna sugar-coat it, it's definitely a "my first map" kind of first map :)

I am not a DM mapper, but to improve I would study existing, well-regarded DM maps to learn about things such as layout, scale and connectivity. Also pick the brains of DM mappers on this board.

Don't get carried away with trying to make things pretty yet! First you want to nail down the layout and make it fun to play before you spend ages trying to do fancy brushwork and nice lighting.

TBH, I made this map when it was pretty late XD. I made the mistake of texturing every object I made when I was making it, making it difficult to test. Thanks again! 
cant help but this looks utterly like crap, i'm sorry

and just stay away from naming the map like this dm_somethin' 
Lol, I know it looks terrible. For some reason, my pc makes it look alright. And thanks for the "dm_" tip. 
Also, the main reason why it looks so bad is that the wall texture I used is way too bright, so I am going to swap it with something darker. Really loving all this feedback! 
>>Lol, I know it looks terrible. For some reason, my pc makes it look alright

i'm not about the actual (distorted, fov 150 there) view of the map

but overall, the map is too small for dueling, and theres to many useless items (two RA and 2 GA) sitting next to each other and so 
Ty again, I thought the RA and GA being right next to each other was a little funny after looking at it again. I don't know if I can make the map bigger though, it would take more work than what it's worth. It handled four players just fine though, and I dueled on it too; it worked pretty well. Honestly, I think larger maps are worse for dueling in the fact that you have to take forever to find your opponent. But, that is assuming that the map is not wide open. 
If you gonna make a propper dm map, i would suggest you to check the map series by Frib efdm3-12
for inspiration, and pkeg1(fribdev1) especially 
DM Maps 
Check out this database and play a few of the top ones to get an idea and feel of good DM maps - 
For Q1 DM 
You need to study the works of headshot, danimal, ztn, retinal, mr fribbles, escher - those guys made some amazing stuff and always put a lot of effort into making sure the maps play great. Not that there aren't other great DM mappers, but these guys kind of got the ball rolling back then. 
+1 to both posts above me.

Also see

which is an outstanding collection of brief DM map info/opinions.

But also just generally, good on ya for getting your mapping ball rolling. 
In case it's not obvious, that doc has multiple tabs. You might find the "About" tab to have some interesting bits, but be sure to flip over to the "DM Map Database" tab. 
Thanks For All Of The Refs! But... 
How the hell do I make a elevator in this thing? 
You can make them with both the func_plat and func_door brush entity.

Fun_plat is fairly straight forward, you make your moving platform and enter "height" as a key with a number signifying how far the platform will travel upwards.

func_door is a little more complicated, you set the angle of the brush as either -1 or -2 depending on whether you set the brush to move up or down. Also it's a good idea to have the platform have a column reaching to the floor so it moves the distance that you need it to. You can change where it stops or starts using the "lip" key. 
So, is there any trigger I need to set up here, or does the elevator work when the player touches it?
Nice name btw 
My entity shoots wrong shells!

HostError: Cl_parceserver message: bad server message 
It works when the player stands on it 
omitting TE_LIGHTNING1 in WriteByte. 
Yet Another Question 
How do I make a wall clipable? As in a wall that I can walk and jump through. 
Turn it into a func_illusionary 
Vertig2 - Now With More Effort! 
So, from the stuff you guys told me, I worked on my old map, dm_vertig, a lot more to make sure it was in working order. I did not fix issues like map size, as it is staying the way it is. I fixed an issue where people spawning in corridor could not get to the next floor safely. I did this by adding elevators. I increased mobility when rocket jumping to each floor. I did this by widening the gaps for the floor entrances, so that way you do not need to take time lining yourself up. I also made the map look aesthetically better, by adding curved surfaces and changing the textures to something more bearable than the last map. Items were also replaced, with armor types being separate from each other. The final thing I did here was add lighting, but be warned, it's super shitty. I might just ask someone to do it for me.
One major problem with the map is that if you do not own the full game, textures are invisible, therefore making the whole map invisible. I may add a compatibility map that uses textures from the Quake demo to fix this. Then there's the corridor camping thing, just look a bit back in the thread to see what that was.
Well, anyway, if you want the map, here it is: 
Wait, Use This Link. 
Will try later.

Ps, nothing wrong with having dm in the file name. Makes life easier imo 
Thanks! It's still not perfect, but it's a lot better than dm_vertig. 
I found problems naming a level dm-something or dm_something amont QuakeWorld people. A server didn't like "-", others complained about "_", so on.

QW would benefit from some QuakeSpasmWorld, giving some love to the code. Downloading .lit files, for example. 
frogbot dueling dmm3 and dmm5 
It's certainly an improvement. I would probably have a play around with lighting now, an unlit map is never good. Get a good feel of what works and what doesnt. 
When first starting a map I usually just use one or two basic wall textures, one ceiling, and one floor.

I always place some basic lights from the beginning, but just to get a feel for how things look. They'll get adjusted and tweaked plenty as the map progresses, and many more will be added.

I never work on a map that has leaks or other compile errors. Any problems must be fixed first. 
Thanks, But I Have A Huge Issue(s). 
The texture tip was great Rick, so thanks for that. The main problem is that I have no idea how to use lights in Quake. DP has something about RT Lightmaps, and there is that light entity in trenchbroom. I have no idea how to use any of these things, so if someone could explain it, that would be nice. Another problem with lighting is that I have to compile the map before I can actually see how the light turns out. One last thing: I've noticed these key things for entities, and I would like to know them so I can use entities effectively. If someone could link me a list or something, that would be awesome. 
Also, Lingo 
I have no idea what leaks are, and I'm pretty sure there is much more to learn than that. 
Light Keys And Using Lights

i should update it as it's still referencing aguirre's light util, but that one is actually pretty outdated now (although still very usable). you'll probably be using tyrann's new light with all the bells and whistles (see here: for keys and other things specific to tyr light)

unfortunately, yes, because of the way lights are you'll just have to get used to the numbers.

usually the easiest way is to make one light, tweak the values until you're happy (by compiling and viewing in the engine). once you have a light you like, you just copy and paste it into all spots that have that kind of light. eventually you end up with a 'palette' of lights, maybe 3 or 4 main types for different things that you use over and over in the map. 
Is There An Editor That Can Make Lighting Easier? 
I like to use trenchbroom, but I think I would want to use a second level editor that has light rendering built into the editor, kinda like the UE3 engine. Maybe blender is an option, as I have seen people using that. 
Also, Best Map Testing Engine? 
Some may have noticed that I use DarkPlaces, and the only main reason I use it is because it has it's own package in Ubuntu Linux, so I use it often on my Windows PC as well as on my Linux laptop. The reason I ask this is because DP can be a little dramatic with it's lighting effects, so is there a better engine that I should use test maps overall? 
About lighting, no, there's no such thing. Quake lighting couldn't allow it. About engines, Fitzquake Mark V or Quakespasm are modern engines faithful to the original Quake. You should map for them. 
To add lighting to your map it's just a case of putting the light entities in there. There are additional features which increase/decrease the range of the lighting and there are different styles which add flickering effects too.

DP is probably not the best engine to test with unless you default back to normal lighting rather than real-time. RT lighting is something you can do once your map is finished and needs to be done within dark places itself. 
I'm pretty sure Quakespasm is also in the Ubuntu repositories, listed as "Quake". It wouldn't be the latest version, but should be just as easy to install as DarkPlaces.

Installing the latest version is trickier if you're not used to building programmes from source, but it's also doable. 
Quakespasm's Pretty Good! 
It really does look like original Quake! Well, besides the texture blending. I also figured out how to use the vis and light tools, and now I understand how I'm supposed to add and place lights. EricW's tools are a little advanced for me though, I have no idea what all of these features do. 
About Lighting 
At least editor can show true attenuation start/end circles. I'd guess most (if not all) editors atm only take "light" key into account and ignore "wait" and "delay". 
It really does look like original Quake! Well, besides the texture blending.

Gah! You need to enable crunchy pixels. I'm in the pub right now slapping ales down me neck so can't remember the command, but can a charitable gent do the honours, please? 
Gl_texturemode 3 
gl_texturemode gl_nearest

or (smoother)

gl_texturemode gl_nearest_mipmap_nearest

or (why would you do this)

gl_texturemode gl_nearest_mipmap_linear 
to avoid it?

"sound ogre : ogridl.wav not looped"
"SV_Startsound not precached" 
Ericw, Some Help? 
You are the legendary quake modder, so I'm assuming I can get some free tips from a god (What do you want sacrificed?) 
I Need To Do My Fucking Homework 
Just realized this. I'm so fucking dead. 
You don't need all the fancy features of the light tool to make a great map. The original maps were made just using the lights as they are.

The most important key for lights is "light" which allows you to set the brightness of the light. 
But why light? I honestly think a DM map would be more effective if all places are equally lit, so that way you can easily see all places. I get the aesthetics, but not the effectiveness. 
Clear Map 
Noone forces you to make a map without light.
It can be a good way for improving your level on texture alignment.
Only take care to give it the vis-test level 4.

There were times I didn't map and I was more home at work.
There's nothing stopping you from making a map that's bright. But no-one wants to play a full-bright unlit map. It looks ugly and would make you look like a lazy mapper.

At the end of the day it's your map, I would suggest making it lit because people will (quite rightly) moan. :P 
Just Throw In Some Lights 
If you, at the time, do not care for lighting then just try something like this for your current map:

Key Value

light 450
delay 5

Then just place them around the map, if you don't want many dark places then place many. It will look better than full bright and it will also be moderately equally lit. 
Also use _dirt 1 on your worldspawn. That way you at least have a little definition in your fullbright map 
Alright, I see. I just ran it through light, so I'll post it later. Super lazy right now. 
Oh, Wait 0_0 
I just refreshed, so I have not done anything you guys said. Lol, I have time tomorrow to do it. 
Fullbright map messes with my depth perception. 
Outdoors can have light coming from the sky, but indoor areas look better if most of the light comes from an obvious source.

The various flame/torch models actually have a "light" key The source could be a light fixture made from brushes or one that is part of a texture. Windows and lava also make good light sources.

Even with a source, you will usually have to add additional light entities for fill and to simulate light bouncing off walls.

Good lighting is hard work. 
To My Level 1 
How I make walk to a monster? 
Do You Mean A Walking Monster? 
Check this link:

Also,it could be beneficial for you to look over some of the articles there. 
Testing Problem 
what engine is fine for test?

Because joequake had texture glitch, and fitz is heavy and don�t supports alt+TAB when I press it. 
Anyone recommend somewhere I can pick up some snow/snowy rock textures for Q1 + Worldcraft? I'm a bit behind the times. Ta. 
There is a Rune.wad on Quaddicted with some ice and snow.
I think there are more.., daikantan.wad 
Ogro As Well 
MFX used some decent looking snow/snowy rock textures (considering the quake palette is rather poor for that sort of thing) - in the IKWhite map jam - I can't remember which jam number that was, nor do I know the source for those textures. 
Ruins has some snowy rocks I made by photoshopping some doom 3 Mars textures.. 
Thanks guys. 
List Of Keys And Entities? 
I would like to see a list of keys and entities, because I'd like to learn to make doors and all of that fun stuff. 
all that shizzle should be in the quake wiki (in theory) 
ok I looked and that wiki is very incomplete.

tbh, I learned everything by looking at the game code in the QuakeC files, which isn't an ideal option for everyone.

Your editor should have an entities .def file or .fgd somewhere which contains all the entity keys and "should" have text descriptions of what everything does.

What editor are you using? 
The old "The Forge" site linked from the Mapping Tutorials page on the Quake wiki used to have a semi-comprehensive entities list, but I see that's no longer accessible (you can get as far as the list of entities, but the descriptions are all dead). That used to be my go-to resource... 
ok I looked and that wiki is very incomplete.

You can change that 
Yeah Put A Link To The Forge 
The old BSP editor site is still up and has some tutorials. 
Yeah, the Wiki is super incomplete, but I think it has what I need besides how doors work (not doors in vertig, that would be insane). 
Also, About Vertig's Ligting... 
I think I'm just gonna fullbright it with _dirt like FifthElphant said, I think it's a little to complex for me at the moment to carefully light the map. Maybe my next map will be fully lit, I just don't have time right now :/ 
The Final Version Of Vertig 
Well, I guess it's done! I made some adjustments, like adding more spawns to keep things distributed, and changing around some items. I added dirtdepth (1024) to give it some darkness, and to keep it from being fullbright. This is all I am doing with vertig, and I am moving (I should say going to move) to a different map idea.


Me traversing the map (recorded in Quakespasm): 
For your first map, that's a really good effort. You listened to some criticism and made some changes for the better. Nice going!

Anything looks better than fullbright (Even total darkness!)

Moving on to different map ideas AFTER you have completed the current project is the way to be. Starting a map is one thing, but finishing one is another thing entirely. 
I looked at it. Is it supposed to be played in near total darkness? I don't really see how that would be fun.

You can't really say it's "done" until it's lit. The map is not that big or complicated. It wouldn't take more than a hour to light it adequately enough for what it is and it would be a major improvement. 
Bah, Why Not? 
Guess I'll just try and light it for the fourth time. I already posted the map on Quaddicted, bet if I check there again I'm gonna have people yelling at me. Lazy-switch is off tonight. 
My Next Map Isn't DM Either, Btw 
The map I'm working on now is a singleplayer map, and it's more of a test for all of the entities available (doors, monsters, etc.), and I'm not posting it. I'm 100% sure it's not going to be special. Plus I'm going to try and light it correctly so that way I can practice up on it. I slept on a good idea for a DM map, but I forgot what it was. 
Always A Place For Criticism 
Exciting to hear about a single player map! I can fully understand not posting it as in that regard, I technically have 9 maps under my belt but every one was me learning.

However I implore you to take advantage of the Screenshots and Betas thread and post the map there...there you can receive technical advice/criticism but avoid a full blown public release. I know I plan on doing that first before publicly releasing my first map. 
Thanks for that! As a complete n00b, I really have no idea how to publish maps, so now I know to put screenshots and stuff there before posting all over the place. Apparently, Kinn is super famous, so I should check out his maps since he has patiently looked at mine and helped me out here. Drop a link to yours as well :) 
UT Like Jump Pad In Quake Using Func_push? 
I was wondering if it would be possible to make a UT like jump pad in Quake, because my current experiments say no. 
I believe the angles (with an s) key can allow for diaognal pushing. 
Ah, Thanks 
I just got trigger_push working, and I didn't set the speed. Boy, that scared the SHIT outta me when I tested it. 
Angles Didn't Work... 
For some reason, I can't make push go in a specific angle, just 90 degrees up and down, and full rotation going around. So, yeah. 
Try Something Like 
angles 90 45

You have to specify more than one direction when using the angles key. In really get exact, you can play the map and in the console type: r_pos 1

This will give you constant location data of your player including viewing angle. Have your player face the direction where you want the push to go and record the values labeled Pitch Yaw Roll. For your requirements, you are looking for Pitch and Yaw values.

At least I think this is how it works. :p 
You're Right 
That's what I did, but more
angles 90 85

It failed to launch me into the air, and looked like it was trying to accelerate me into the ground. 
angles -15 45 0

if you want it to push you up, first value should be negative (-90 straight up, 90 straight down) 
That's Right 
I looked back at the one time I used the angles key for a trigger_push and the pitch should be negative for upwards motions...DeeDoubleU has it right.

I still recommend using r_pos 1 (or viewpos) to get the exact desired "push" you are looking for! ;) 
Thanks, Botha Ya! 
Now all I have to do is calculate (aka experiment) how much force (speed) I need to go 64 units up plus the angle. Make it triggerable with a floor button, and bang. Jump pad! 
I use a trigger_once for a func_door or plat elevator able one time? triggered by a button 
So, what I think you are asking is how to press a button once, and it will trigger only once. To do that, add this in keys/values of the button:

time -1

What time does is after you press the button, it will stay depress for x amount of time before being repressable. Setting time to -1 just means for the button to stay indented after pressed. 
in a way, it's too bad everyone is using only hammer and tb these days. both those editors do not display the old school entity descriptions like radiant did and that is a much easier way to learn the stuff. :(

Plats are always drawn in the
extended position, so they will
light correctly.

If the plat is the target of another
trigger or button, it will start out
disabled in the extended position
until it is triggered, when it will lower
and become a normal plat.

plat will only be triggered when in
lowered position

moving speed, default is 150
determines the amount the plat
moves, instead of being implicitly
determined by the model's height.
1 = base fast
2 = chain slow

so a trigger_once in this case would unlock and lower a plat and then the plat would work as normal. 
I believe you meant "wait" key. 
What editor are you using? I'm interested... 
Yep, Whoops 
Ok To All 
I get try 
i use tb now, but i used to use qeradiant for many years, then a version of radiant sikkpin had worked on. radiant doesn't have those 'smart' keys, instead it just displays the text left by the developers and you would have to manually add in the key names. it was a bit more work, but you would learn how the entity behaved a lot faster.
of course, radiant, as an editor isn't as fun to use as tb. and it's not hammer either. if you want to give radiant a spin, netradiant 1.5 is the one that is still being worked on. 
Well, SleepWalkeR Is Already Making TB2... 
Hopefully in his successor, he will add an entity list with keys and examples of values. 
It Already Does 
TB2 shows you everything that's in the FGD file. It shows you all keys that have default values (in italics), and it shows you the descriptions (either in tooltips or in the text field below the property table). 
keeps the brushing mode? I like the Smart brushing mode of TB 
I Don't Know What You Mean 
By smart brushing? 
30 seconds per quadrant, soft bristles, don't forget to floss. 
srry, easy brush grid 
Haha! Johnny Law 
Easy Brush Grid?!? 
The Goods Of TB 
easy brush, pues hablo ingl�s a medias. :S 
Qbsp & Item Problem 
"no filling performed" why happens?

I don't know if the problem of dissapeared �TEMS in the bsp file have relation with it... 

"No entities in empty space -- no filling performed"
Normally caused by not having at least one entity that is positioned far enough from solid brushes. Move one of the entities further away from all walls.

Don't care. 
QBSP Doesn't Find The Texture WAD Found By Trenchbroom 
So, the map has as texture reference the text "id1\QUAKE101.WAD" and Trenchbroom did locate QUAKE101.WAD ok, but when I compile the map it says "Invalid WAD location in world model" or something like that.

This means my map will have no textures! And in fact... I tested it.... all checkerboard! At least the shaders worked, but it still looked *horrible*! I can't withstand a texture-less map!

Please! What do I do now? My compilers and the map files are located respectively in "Documents\My Quake One Maps\compilers" and "Documents\My Quake One Maps" respectively.

OS: Windows 10 64-bit, x64 architecture in 64-bit system 
Try Setting Absolute Path To WAD 
That's a relative folder. The was has to be on that folder relative to where you are compiling from. I fond symlinks best for this. 
And how do I do symlinks? MKLINK? 
Nailgun Not Showing 
Along to this problem, I noticed the Nailgun is not showing in the secret pool I did, despite no warning showing in the compiler (other than that missing textures one). This is my first map.

I don't want to move my map folder to Darkplaces folder! That would make a mess !! 
It May Be Falling Out 
In the console type: developer 1

then load your map and check the console to check for any "fell out of level" messages.

It could be the bounding box of the nailgun is too close to another brush. 
Making Entities 
Thanks! What happened is that the bouding box of the nailgun didn't fit the pool (though the model did). I wish the bounding boxes of items were smaller ;_;

Btw, one last question, how do I make a entity from a BSP model? I mean, make a single lamp in TrenchBroom, compile only BSP then have a .bsp file used as model. What do I do to make it into a entity? 
Mklink /D newfolder old folder

That way you don't need copies of the files and can keep them all in one spot. 
Entity Limit..? 
Hello again...

My map is considerably small, and has little entities, but it seems any other item_ entitites I put in the map aren't showing. Only item_ entities! Could this be kindly explained?

I checked for whether it was because their bounding box touched any brushes. [b]It wasn't.[/b] 
Forgotten Info 
Oh, and before I forget, the previous item_ entities I put *does* show. 
In the console type: developer 1

then load your map and check the console to check for any error messages pertaining to these entities, and post the results here. 
Four "Bonus item fell out of world" and a single monster appeared in the wall.

Well, in TrenchBroom at least it says the items are right there where they should so idk ._. 
Bookmark or save this, which explains error messages:

"walkmonster in wall at: x y z"
"Bonus item fell out of level at x y z"

This console warning is caused by having objects (monsters, weapons, ammo etc) too close to or even partly inside solid walls. The objects may also not be too close to each other, make sure their bounding boxes are separated...

Does that account for all the missing ents, or were there more? 
Check Bounding Boxes 
While those entities may not be beside other brushes, they may be overlapping with the floor. Raise the problematic entities by 8 units or so (Don't worry, the player won't know the difference!). 
Another Thing To Note 
I think TB (Only one I used) has incorrect Bboxes for some entities such as Quad damage and other artifacts.

Try to compensate for a powerup entity as the size of the player's bounding box. I think you may be confused because the Bbox is smaller than what the game actually thinks it is.

I ran into this problem when I was making my first few maps. 
That's gotta be a problem with the def/fgd file then right? 
Yes Kinn 
Yeah, I didn't want to triple post when I caught my mistype. I think the default supplied quake defs/fgd may have the incorrect size. I remember my Quad damage having a Bbox the size of the Quad itself (quite small) when in reality the guy wants a damn auditorium to be happy! 
So fart the only items that seem to disappear are the Ring of Shadows and the Invulnerability in GUSE1M1, though it seems OK in TrenchBroom 2: 
Took a quick look at your map.

Looks like the Ring of Shadows might a bit too close to the surrounding walls. To test, just place a ring out in the open before the secret door.

As for the pentagram, I can see why that is confusing as it looks like it has plenty of room. First thing to try is raise it...just raise to the middle of the room (don't move the light) it will drop down to the first solid brush it encounters. I am thinking it is too close to the floor. 
Not Working 
I moved both the pentagram to the ceiling and the ring to outside the secret walkway, but none appear yet :(

Can you still identify the other bonus items that fall off the level? I can't find out any other items that disappear. 
I'd Have To Compile 
If nothing is solved, I'll load the map into my game when I get home.

As for the pentagram, if you moved it pressed to the ceiling then that could impose the same damage as having it pressed on the floor. Try the middle of the there is plenty of space. 
All items have a bbox size of 32*32*64 - just like the player and the small monsters. Needs to be at least four units away from walls and ceilings! 
Height is 56 units. 
Using the metrics kegke shared, I could have both the Penta and the Ring showing. Thank you very much! :)

PS(Offtopic): I only wish the Scragg had a melee animation by spiking the player with it's spikes, and if the player is behind it, poisoning him with the tail/whatever it's called.

Don't care with this Offtopic if you don't want to :) 
Type "developer 1" in the console before loading the map. Then you'll see warning messages (along with coordinates) if items fall out of the map or monsters are stuck inside geometry. 
Got The Tip 
But, what did you guys think of the map? 
Nice Effort 
I like the effect of the dirty water flowing down the cracked floor.

To have the message about exiting not cut off add "\n" in your message to start a new line.

Keep developing concepts and general are heading in the right direction! 
I guess it's because I have a bit of previous mapping experience with UnrealEd (failed due to BSP errors, which Quake doesn't has) and Doom. 
Help! Cage And Trap Not Opening! 
Welp, the story is as follows.

I decided to continue GUSE1M1 with the map GUSE1M2 (dur) ( ) (what do you think?) but the secret cage opened by the button near the megahealth secret and the Shambler trap and bridge activated by snagging the Super Nailgun aren't really working! 
I Have A Bounding Box Problem 
There is a super shot gun inside a cage (func_door. The cage is larger than the SSG bounding box by 12 units and is raised by using a button.

I have verified that the positioning of both cage and gun is what I think it is by turning on bounding boxes in the game.

The player is able to pick up the gun without raising the cage.

Any idea what is causing this weirdness? 
For the SNG door.

Without actually running the map, it looks like the angled door has an angle of 0. Make sure to give it an angle of 360.

Also if you want the "doors" to stay open forever, just set the wait key to a value of -1 as opposed to the Toggle spawnflag.

I honestly do not know if you can have a delay key on an item. But typically you have the sng target a trigger_relay which definitely can make use of the delay key.

As for the button:

It has a target of "secret1" but nothing has a targetname of "secret1". If you are trying to prompt that a secret was found when pressing the button then simply give your trigger_secret a targetname of "secret1".

Also make sure to set the angle for the button (360 for 0) and give it a wait value of -1 if you do not want it pressed only once.

This should help ya out. 
The SNG trap's angled brush is actually a bridge so the Shambler can smash the player after getting close quickly.

However the door is angle -1 which I believe goes up.

The trigger_relay entity is that should have the targetname "secret1". Thanks!

I'll change Toggle doors by wait "-1" and remove the trigger once.

And as for the SNG trap relay, I don't need it, and items *do* have delay time, but thanks :) 
Learned Something 
I really don't think I ever knew items had a delay key haha.

Is everything working now?

Another fun idea to try is instead of moving an angled door for the Shambler to come across, you can have him jump over the gap to the player via a trigger_monsterjump. Just draw a brush infront of the shambler and use the height + speed keys to find what works for you. You can also set angles x y to have him go at a diagonal. 
If the player is picking up the shotgun through the cage (by hugging the cage wall I presume?) then I guess it's just a bit too close. I see you verified bounding boxes but a thing to try is expand the cage by a little and see if you get the desired effect. 
Ok, Thanks 
Well, everything works now! :D

Except the penta in the cage secret.

Well, I'll see if I can make the shambler jump to the player. Because I think he isn't really going down the bridge, but I ain't sure since when I tested I didn't see it very well when the trap activated, but maybe a trigger_monterjump be funner :P

The trigger_relay that starts the process of the cage opening is not target-able because it has no targetname. When triggered events are not working, try to look for missing targetnames. In TrenchBroom, clicking on entities/brushes with targetnames/target links will draw a line between them.

You could also just have the trigger_relay open the cage as opposed to it targeting a trigger_once that then triggers the door. :) 
One More Thing 
Custom music in Quake 1 maps? Like, I have a WAV, OGG, S3M or even MIDI, and I want it to play in the map. 
I always forget Google :P

Thanks for the "no trigger_once" tip! 
I thought at first it might be some kind of door linking bug since the SSG is actually inside the door's bounding box, but no.

The cage has to be at least 64x64 to keep the player from picking up a 32x32 gun in its center. No, I'm not kidding.

Unfortunately, a cage that big will look stupid in that particular location, so I guess I'll have to come up with a better idea. 
Email me the map (the email in my profile), then I can see if I can do a better idea for that gun. Remember, I'm good in new concepts! 
Could you maybe add invisible func_walls around the shotgun but inside the cage that move up with the cage? Then kill off the func_walls when it is time to actually grab the gun?

Just throwing stuff out there. 
I don't think it'll work. It won't stop the player from grabbing the shotgun, it's BB will also cross the func_walls' BB.

It would be better to make invisible cage around the main cage, one that opens when the player is near it, and it opens the main cage half a second later. Then the player won't grab the shotgun early. 
pickup items including weapons have an extra large radius for player grabbing them, larger than the bounding box you see in the editor. This may be why you can grab the weapon through the bars. 
pickup items including weapons have an extra large radius for player grabbing them, larger than the bounding box you see in the editor.
Yeah, that's what it is. The pickup bounding box must be real close to 64x64.

The cage thing was using too many marksurfaces anyway. I can just leave the gun out in the open the way it's been all along, it's just that I have this button that needs something to do. 
Rick, Please 
As I said, email me the map! I'll give that button a useful job! 
How About 
Put you gun on a pillar. I think it could be thick enough without looking odd.
Lower it with your button. 
Is there any other bug in GUSE1M2?

What would you rate it, in a 0 to 100 scale?

And where do I ask questions like this? This is a mapping questions area, not reviewing maps area. 
why is the portal's black texture invisible when underwater? 
*teleport is treated as water (to get the warping effect), and when you put two water brushes overlapping, the interior faces get removed (to create one continuous volume of water.)

Some tricks:

1. create a pocket of air where you want to see a teleporter, and use a thin *teleport texture to make the boundary of the pocket.

2. create a func_wall with the *teleport texture, it's a separate entity so it won't merge with the other water. 
And where do I ask questions like this? This is a mapping questions area, not reviewing maps area.

Maybe post a few screenshots and a compiled beta of your map in the Screenshots & Betas thread. 
I didn't really want to just plop the gun on a moving pillar, but I may end up doing something like that.

I appreciate the offers for help, but this map is right at the edge of exceeding the normal map limits and I intend to finish it without doing that. I only have about 4 models left to play with and the marksurfaces are over 32000 and at an unstable point.

On top of that, it's actually pretty complex. If I leave it alone for more than a few weeks I tend to forget how everything works. 
Split the map into 5 maps, MAPNAME_1, MAPNAME_2, MAPNAME_3, MAPNAME_4 and MAPNAME_5. Then it won't be large, I hope. 
Almost Forgot 
You can also accept the map as is and put the exit right away. :) 
Those of you that have been supporting me with learning how to map: I'm a bit in the weeds. I am in highschool, and right now, mapping is not top priority. Even on my spring break, I have tons of school assignments. Some of you may remember that I said that I would "light vertig for the fourth time," I haven't actually been able to do that. Almost the next day after I posted that, I got all of this crud to do. Because of this, if I say I'm going to do something, I might not be able to do it for a while. I haven't been mapping, but I'll get right back onto it as soon as I can. I can't promise it, but I'm pretty sure I will have time to do all of the stuff I want after spring break. Wish me straight A's. 
SpecialBomb, you're not required to do mapping :)

Also, how do I make so monsters teleport into some area after a trigger activation? 
Yeah, I understand that.
It's just that I have decided to be a continuation of this subculture, and I feel that it is pretty important to be criticized by the people know what they are doing, so that way I can get to their level in the future. I know, it's a bit overkill.

Also, I think I know how to help you.
Do you want the monsters to suddenly jump from one place to another, or do you want the monster to suddenly exist? 
There are no excuses! Forget food and sleep and go map!
Just kidding, good luck with those A's.

Link trigger/button to trigger_teleport and that trigger_teleport to info_teleport_destination.
Put monster so he is inside/touching trigger_teleport.
You may wish to have all this stuff in a separate room "outside" the main map. 
Nevermind, I guess I can just do a func_door with a clip texture and a func_illusionary brush in the floor the monster will appear. The monster will be lifted by the func_door to the func_illusionary brush.

What kind of brush is there that only monsters can clip through? 
Here's A Doc On Teleporting Monsters (I Still Don't Really Get It...)

I recommend going to this site when you need to figure something out. It's SUPER OLD though, so one of my projects in the future is to remake these tutorials for a more user friendly (vids, docs, map examples, etc.) 
School Is More Important Than Mapping. 
Okay, Here Is What I Think It Means... 
What you are supposed to do is make an empty room where you will "store" your monsters. This room is supposed to be separate from your main map. Put your monsters in that room, and then put some teleport entities right on them. Then you go to the main room, and put a teleport destination info entity where you want a monster to teleport. Link the teleport destination entity to the teleport entity, and then you link the teleport entity to a trigger once in your main map. And you are done. Sucks that you can't just make a monster start disabled, and then trigger it to re-enable it.

Note: I have no idea how you are supposed to link the teleport and teleport destination together, so you may need to google a bit. 
Delayed Spawn 
Some modifications allow for spawnflags to be set to not spawn a monster upon start. Then you need only target the monster in question for them appear.

Two popular ones that can do this would be Quoth and Arcane Dimensions. 
If you knew how long some people take for their maps... Relax! :-) 
To be honest, I have no idea.

Also, your run Quaddicted, right? 
Why not try making a map without relying on teleporting monsters? I try to avoid it.

It's actually a kind of worn out mechanic.

A bit like Doom 3 monster closets, now that I think about it. 
It's because there is little space for other closet. Please check the Revision 1: Play the map. Either side is occupied by something, be it a door, a mechanism, a closet, or whatever. No space for a Vore trap after pressing the button, except I make a teleporting monster. Well, it's the best I can do. 
Slopes Or Stairs? 
Should I use slopes or stairs while making a deathmatch map? 
Figured it out myself 
How To Make Map Overviews? 
Like the ones in CS, but for other games like all the Quake engine games and UT (but especially Quake 1).


I try to noclip out of the level and take a screenshot, but there's usually a Hall of Mirrors effect or having some parts of the map disappear. 
Add command "gl_clear 1" (without quotes) to you autoexec.bat to get rid of HoM.

If there's a lot of sky, that will get in the way also. Too bad there's not an option to turn off drawing of the sky.

Hit the + (plus) key a few times to hide the staus bar, and type the command "r_drawviewmodel 0" to hide the player weapon. 
Also, if you have fog enabled it might look better in an overview screenshot if it's turned off. Like I didn't do here: 
Red Lettering For Messages 
Something I can't figure out:

How do you achieve the Red/Bold lettering on messages?

At the very least, in ad_swampy the textbook used to start the tome of power quest has an example.

I see that the message key has a value with/b The Rune Quest/b/ <--(Backslashes) but when I attempt that on my map it does not work which also uses AD by the way.

I have even directly copied MFX's textbook and it still does not display the lettering which leads me to believe I am missing an element here. Any help is appreciated!

While we are at it, are there other fancy lettering you can do? 
The colored lettering only works for server names and user names. I'm very sure messages are not affected by this. 
Speaking Of Color... 
How do you color lights? Is it in hexadecimal or something? 
It's a light entity key. I use 0-255 RGB

_color rrr ggg bbb

I don't know if it does hex, but I think you can use 0 to 1 if you want. 
Thanks for replying.

That makes sense but ad_swampy uses this inside of an entity's message key. It just looks like a simple bold tag but it does nothing if I attempt to use it on my map. 
Well, At Least It Has As Many Colors As Hex 
Also, do I need that underscore for the key? It looks awkward. 
Hmm. I don't know. Were you using vanilla Quake when you were playing it? 
Yes, the underscore is required.

The Light program will generate a .lit file with the same name as your bsp. That's where the light color data is. The lit file be in the folder with the bsp or no color light will be seen when the map is played.

As far as I know, the lit file is unique to each bsp. Every time a new bsp is created, a new lit file is needed also. A non-matching lit file will cause some very weird lighting effects. 
I'm going to light my new map soon, so thanks for that. 
hmm, backslash b should work, not sure how it wouldn't work for you unless the Tome of Power has special code to do it that isn't the same as trigger_once/func_door/etc. code. 
The Mystery Continues 
Thanks metlslime,

I will try it on a trigger_once to see if I get the desired effect...that will rule out if that is indeed the case. 
Masque Of The Red Text 
So using /bTEXT/b does not work even on something like a trigger_once. (Backslashes instead obviously)

I am at a loss here! 
what engine?

\bSome text\b does work. 
What On Earth! 
Where in the world does this gem come from??

That worked but I still am puzzled about how ad_swampy achieves the same with just /b. I am using Quakespasm as engine of choice.

Thanks negke for the link! 
Use my light tool and add the "-parse_escape_sequences" option, see:

I should probably just leave that on by default in the next version. It's also weird to do it in the light tool :P

necros: was this working in bjp's tools? or in qc strings? IIRC, If you use \b in qc code, the qc compiler is what parses the \b's and turns the text red. 
copying mfx leads to hell in the most direct way. 
How To Extract Embedded Textures? 
I'm using Nemesis' BSP Viewer, but all the textures have their colors fucked up. 
Well jeez, I admit I was not planning on looking at light.exe for the solution but that spells it out as clear as mud!

MFX, haha eh I am okay with hellish landscapes. ;) 
How To Extract Embedded Textures 
TexMex can create a wad file from the textures in a bsp. It doesn't even need to be "installed". Just unzip to a folder and run it. Best texture wad utility I've used. 
BSP Viewer? 
Is there a tool that lets you view a bsp file? 
BSP Viewer 
Is there a tool that lets you view a bsp file?

Yes There Is 
BSP Version Switcher? 
Is there a tool that lets you switch the version of a BSP to 29, the one that Quake uses? There was a tool called QVER, but it no longer works on modern systems. 
How To Make A Entity? 
Seriously now, I want to do a tech level with some few small spaceships shooting at a large one visible through one of the station's windows. It's merely aesthetic, but I want the spaceships to appear flying around and shooting the large spaceship. 
* Gets Popcorn * 
func_trains and lots of triggering. 
You'll need to become rather proficient in QuakeC before you can start slicing that particular sausage.

I have no idea if there are any decent QC resource sites still online.

Leaving all the QC aside for a minute, you will find that you don't have much room in Quake's map bounds to have a very large scene like that, so you'll also need to do some tricks to fake perspective to make everything look bigger than it is.

The simplest way to make an object look arbitrarily large is to keep its displacement from the player constant.

A simple example - let's say you want to create the illusion of a planet or a huge spaceship - you create a small model that fits in a sky-textured room outside your window, but you will have to update the position of the model every frame so that its relative displacement from the player never changes - that way it will appear to never move in the player's view and will always seem very far away. 
What wad editor is good today? 
or Wally 
can be used portable for a hard disk? 
Wally Is Portable 
Can I Use GIF Images For A Wad? 
No, not directly. They need to be changed to bitmaps and the colors converted to the Quake palette. That can be done in a graphics/image editing program such as PaintShopPro, Photoshop, GIMP, etc. After that you can copy and paste them into a wad with TexMex. 
I Have Wally Not Texmex :l 
Do Textures From A .wad File Compile Into A .bsp? 
I'm not sure if the textures are sourced from the game files, or if the textures are actually compiled into the map. I ask this, because you can extract textures from a .bsp, but if you don't own the full game, textures from the full game don't load. 
The bsp compiler takes the .wad textures and embeds them into the .bsp

The .wad is not actually used by the game.

No idea why they decided to do it like that. Anyone know? 
Textures from wad get compiled into the bsp. The wad files did not ship with the game (except gfx.wad), it always loads textures from the bsp itself.

What sypmtoms are you seeing when you say "textures from the full game don't load" ? 
People On My Server Are Saying... 
That the maps I put on there that use full-game textures have invisible walls. When they come back after getting the full game, they can see the textures. I have no idea if it's just the client or my server. It's actually pretty weird. 
i assume it looks correct on your machine in your engine of choice.

does it look correct in a different engine?

how about in a clean quake folder with no other mods or content? 
Clean full Quake has no trouble. Both DP and FQ work fine as well. I am trying to get the Quake demo files to test with, which is honestly harder than getting the full game. 
what about registered quake but without any 3rd party content?

also, what engine do your other testers use?

and how do they get the map? Installed manually or auto-downloaded by their client? 
Demos Be Dumbos 
So, anytime I try to record a demo, it says "recording to dem01" in the console but I never can find my demo files. I'm using Fitz085. Where is it supposed to save them? 
As soon as I record a demo it is in the directory I'm in at that moment.
Mostly I find my *.dem files in TmpQuarK.
When I'm in a mod than it's that one.
If you're not sure just type "path"in the console before you start recording.

Or you could go for "search demo01.dem". 
"Clean full Quake" refers to registered Quake with no 3rd party content.

I have no idea really, I host a DarkPlaces server, and it doesn't seem to work with any other Quake World clients. I'd assume that people joining my server are only using DarkPlaces.

And maps are auto downloaded. 
hmm, i guess the next thing to try would be to have a clean install of quake and use it as a client to connect to your server, and see if the download process works with the textures.

I wonder if this is some kind of engine bug, since all the ways you've tested so far work fine. 
Invisible Is Weird 
I've seen instances where surfaces didn't get drawn correctly and you could see through, but only very rarely and obviously some kind of bsp problem since the texture was drawn in other places. Every time I've had actual missing textures, Quake draws the checkerboard pattern instead. 
DarkPlaces lets you play maps as a client that you do not have.

Yes it's 100% true. It's part of DarkPlaces missing model support.

And DarkPlaces will not allow a connected client to download something from Quake pak1.pak, the registered Quake pak.

No E1M1 fine. It's shareware. No DM2. Out of luck, it's registered Quake. 
mystery solved, thanks Baker. 
Should I Use _deviance? 
Or are there other methods to get less chunky shadows? 
Soft Is Useful As Well 
-soft on light.exe will help with clunky-er shadows. 
Light Sidenote: 
How does light work in BSP anyway? Someone said that it would be almost impossible to add real-time lighting in quake map editors, so I would like to look into the process to see if it is feasible. Learning the mathematics to it too will definitely help me out. I mean, my computer can handle real time raytracing in Blender, it surely can realtime light a map using some method. 
Reccomended Soft Value? 
I Just Use The Paremeter -soft In NecrosGUI 
I Use 
Light.exe -extra4 -soft -softdist 8 -range 1.2 -gate 4 
But don't use -softdist with ericw's newer version of Light. It doesn't support it and may crash. 
I'm going to mess with it later, the lighting I have now looks like shit. Without knowing what the light looks like before I compile, I have no idea how to fix artifacts (triangles, etc.). Plus, it just kinda looks weird. This needs a lot of trial and error, sheesh.

Any tips? 
Make A Test Map 
with different light styles and values to familiarize yourself with it. 
Here are some lighting advice posts from Fifth and sock

In general I would start simple, build a test map with just a single light entity, and get a feel for what the different settings look like.

regarding "what is the math behind quake lighting".. The light tool generates a grid of sample points on all surfaces. To determine the light level at a sample point:
- every light in the map is tested for visibility from the sample point.
- if the light is visible, its light contribution is added to the sample point's light value. Factors that affect this contribution include the light entity settings (falloff style, brightness, etc.), the distance to the light, the angle between the light ray and the surface normal.

The main barrier to doing this in realtime in a map editor is that every change (resizing a brush, etc) could require recomputing the entire level's lighting. So you'd need a background thread constantly recomputing the map's lighting. 
Quake Map Compiling And Texture Authoring Tools ? 
I've been out of touch with Quake mapping scene (as far as making anything) for a long time.

Are there any modern'ish map compiling and texture authoring tools for Quake? (I am on Win 7 64bit)

Hi-res Quake .wad Textures - Possible ? 
Is it possible to author higher resolution textures into .wad? I don't want to use TGA and such with modern engines, but I'd like to have higher quality textures made and keep them in .wad

Possible ? 
I did some experiments a while back using 256x256 textures in the .wad and scaling them by 0.25 in horizontal and vertical, but that's as far as I went. 
What Rick said... Though I believe this comes with it's own problems 
I made a whole level where every texture was scaled down to at least 0.5
The only problem I noticed was a larger file size. 
Yeah it will massively increase the file size because you're doubling up the lightmap detail. Plus you increase the amount of bsp cuts on a surface I think. 
yeah a scale of 0.5 would give you 4x memory usage and filesize for lightmaps, plus up to 4x marksurfaces (small surfaces probably won't be subdivided differently, but medium/large ones will.) 
Lightmap Memory Usage 
should this be concerning at all? It's my understanding that depending on the dimensions of the lightmaps, or any image, they will take up more vram than their actual file size... but we're still talking about mbs.

I ask because a project I have uses very high res lightmaps. 
Two Causes Of Overhead 
that apply to vanilla engines (GLQuake, Fitz/QS):

- lightmaps are animated on the cpu (blending the 4 lightstyles for stuff like torches, and shading in dlights like rocket trails etc.)

- more draw calls. the lightmaps for various faces are packed into atlases by the engine, at map load time. Higher-res lightmaps means more atlases being used to draw a given scene, which means more draw calls. 
Yep, Possible! 
If you have ever used blender cycles, you will know what I mean. Yes, the real-time doesn't look all that nice for the raytracing, but that's only because of how detailed it is. It's actually surprising that it can calculate that fast. Quake, without a doubt, is not very detailed with it's lighting, and this is because the lighting uses one-shot surface point lighting (I'm assuming there are no reflective properties). Simply go into the Light util code and see how it calculates the light. Then, use the math from this code to replicate it's lighting in a custom application that mimics the Quake engine's way of displaying light.

Not only this, but we have achieved surface point lighting in real-time in almost every modern game engine, so there is no denying it at this point. Someone just has to go and do it. I personally would try, but I'm not strongly experienced in code yet (working on it). As of your "recalculating the map every time" argument, this is true, but computers are simply fast enough to do this now. Quake's way of calculating light may also be a barrier due to probably not being optimized enough. I don't know if you messed with the lighting tool to have more efficient results, but if you did, tell me.

Finally, let me know if anything I just said is completely stupid. 
If from what you tell me does explain why it's impossible, then here's another idea:

We simply add a calculate light option or shortcut to a modified editor. It wouldn't be realtime, but it would show us how the lighting looks at that point so we can edit it before we compile the map. Easy way to check. 
interesting, thanks 
Hi-res Wad Textures 
The whole point, in my case, to have hi-res textures is for importing BSP into Blender. When importing, textures are pulled from BSP and if they are low res, well, that's what I will get in Blender.

Technically I could just replace them in Blender, but then I'd have to adjust UV maps, wouldn't I ? (which would be a royal pita)

With hi-res textures in .wad I'd be able to map in Trenchbroom, import it into Blender and be happy :) 
I don't use blender, though I think you are safe replacing textures in it to higher resolution ones.

I believe most 3d modeling packages store UV info in normalized float values (or whatever it is called) and not pixels. 
I'm Not Using Blender 
I'm only using it as an example of real time lighting that uses way more complex rules than Quake to prove that real-time lighting in a map editor is possible. Sorry if it wasn't clear. 
Oh, Wrong Person And Subject 
I thought that DeeDoubleU was saying not to use blender based off of what I was saying, but was based on motorsep's comment. Wish I could delete stuff. 
I wish I could reply to my original thread, but oh well :/ 
Actually you wouldnt have to mess w/uv's 
Hi-res Wad Textures 
@PyroGXPilot: So texture's resolution has no effect on how it will be aligned on the surface ?

If not, then the last few good excuses are that I wouldn't have to resize textures to be used in wad for mapping, and keep originals to be used in Blender. And I wouldn't have to replace anything manually :) 
Hi-res Wad Textures 
Btw, the resolution I need to have in wad is at least 1024^2. 
It Shouldn't Matter 
you can switch 16x16 to 8192x8192 and still have correct coordinates 
Vis Issues? 
Hey guys, in a map I'm working on 3/4 of the way through the map some of the mobs and geometry disappear. When you noclip the area, you get teleported back to info_player_start. Any idea what could be causing this?

No errors in the output, "check map for problems" in JH turns up nothing, using bsp2 format and tyrians version of vis. 
Did you build stuff outside of the +-4096 grid? 
are you more than 4096 units away from the world origin? If so, what protocol are you using? 
It's big on one axis.

JH is set to HL map version, I'm using -bsp2 when I compile and quakespasm is defaulting to protocol 666.

What have I missed? 
666 doesn't support larger map bounds, you need a different protocol. I am not sure what the options are for that. 
Darkplaces Works Fine 
I was a little surprised normally it's my fail mapping skills that lets me down. 
Is There A Way To Convert UT2004 Maps To Quake? 
Stubborn Brush 
I was exploring a Q2 map which indicates it has too many brushes to compile.
So I converted all textures to Q1 and deleted the q2 functions.
While searching on the error I kept the warning: Invalid brush plane format on line 1692.

After deleting the brush the warning stayed on that line so it seemed not an invalid brush but a lame compiler message.
I went on deleting brushes untill I had only one brush that persist on invalid brush format.

It looks as if not a single brush, even on 64 grid won't pass the compiler.
What's wrong? 
About Scourge's Spawn Entity 
Continuing mapping using my mod that uses scourge's code, and when I use the "spawn entity" to spawn a monster when a player goes through a trigger brush, monsters appearing via those entities have a half-second delay before they react.
This is tricky because it makes ambushes kind of moot. I've heard it's because when entities spawn (also at the start of a map), monsters have a half-second delay before they're active.
Is there a way to counter this? 
Invisible, Non Working Button 
(Hope I get a response this time)
I'm pretty close of finishing that map, but I just hit a wierd wall yesterday:
See, I have this button:
which targets a door in this door. In TB there doesn't seem to be a problem, but once I test it ingame:
The button's invisible, the collision mask is still there and it's not functionnal (e.g I can't trigger the push, no sound and no collision change).
Which is wierd because this button brush is the exact same I use for other buttons in the level, and they all work no problem, except for this one.
What gives? 
Pushing Buttons 
Couple of things to try to rule things out:

-Place the button somewhere else like on another wall in that room.

-Delete the button and create a new one from scratch.

See if the button still disappears. You could also try Developer 1 to see if any messages help bring light to the mystery. 
Sorry, but would have to do with the button being inside of that trigger_remove?

Not that familiar with hipnotic entities. 
The Brush Was Side To Side With The Button 
But then I changed it to be a full-heigth brush while putting it backwards. The button's now functional! 
Trigger_push Stucking The Player 
So this is the final thing that needs to be done before this map is officially done:

The map have a bell tower that can only be accessible in the top via a secret teleporter. In this is a Quad Damage, and taking it drops the player inside the tower, which is a narrow downwards tunnel. Once he reaches the bottom of the tower, a trigger_push is put to push him forward, which opens the tower's door in front of him, getting him out of the tower fast.

At least that's the idea on paper. Indeed, said trigger_push activates, but the push speed is next to none (when falling the player descends extremely slow), so much that I have to struggle moving forward to get out of the brush and finally make the push work at the intended speed.
First try was just having the downward tunnel and having said trigger_push made like a platform flat on the ground. Same thing happened when I made the brush thinner.
Then I tried to make a downward trigger_push in the downward tunnel, and then have the second (original) trigger_brush be a ramp, thinking it would do it, but no.
Then I tried to separate the vertical tunnel and the horizontal one and make a teleport brush at the bottom of the first one, and have the teleport_destination being inside a trigger_brush, but still no dice (see

What should I do? 
Picture Link Broken 
Is that HOZ trigger_push at a diagonal? You have the angle key set so it pushes in the desired direction correct? Having the trigger_push slowly push the player down sounds like an angles issue. 
The Angle's Fine, It Points Towards The Exit. 
Also for the link just remove the period at the very end. Wierd how the website included it. 
Hard To Tell What I Am Looking At Here 
The shaft is a trigger_push? So you want to grab the quad, shoot down the tower via a downward push and then pushed out of the exit door?

Apologies for my confusion but if that is what you want then try making the down push brush stop at the entrance of the shaft. Have the HOZ push not be on the floor make it like 64 units high or something. Default push speeds should be more than enough to shoot the player out.

You shouldn't have to do a work around and make a teleport this can work. 
I can't tell exactly what's what in the picture, but I would make sure the down push ends above the horizontal push by at least 64 units.

The horizontal push doesn't need to be real tall. 32 units is probably enough and place it a bit above the floor, 16 - 32 units should be fine. 
Crazy Idea But 
Is the push angle at 0? If it is, set it to 1 or -359 instead. 
Went To The Quake Wiki 
And apparently putting 0 at the angle key doesn't work, somehow.
Anyway, I put it at 360 and now it works. Odd. 
Black Spots On The Skybox + Unfixable Grey World 
I was just a centimeter finished for doing this map when I have this stuff pop up on Quakespasm.

First off, at the start map I have a sky cieling where some parts are grey:
At first I thought this was related to that "inside out grey world" bug where a map goes out of the game's boundaries, so I tried to put the whole map down to some units, but try as I might, the error's still there (Same thing happened even if I put -bsp2 in the compiler).
Same thing happened with the first actual map: on top of having parts of the sky greyed-out, in the final room, on its front side when you enter, and you get close to it, the inside out grey world bug happens, but usually when it happened in my maps it showed the world at its place, like if you were inside a brush, but here I have the duplicate of the map in front of me, like a pattern you'd see on a wallpaper, because it's the exact same axis:
And still in there, as much as I try moving the map around, nothing changes. 
I've never seen patches of the skybox not drawing like that. Is there possibly a skip brush clipping away the sky there or something?
Check in other engines, and maybe try a different compiler.

It shouldn't be related to exceeding the +- 4096 bounds.

inside out grey world bug
For this, keep the player and all entities within +- 4096. It should be ok for inaccessible areas of the map (like the cliffs + skybox in your shot)

Enter 'viewpos' in the console to print your current position, or in quakespasm you can do "r_pos 1" to enable a continuous printout of the player's position. 
Does "r_novis 1" do anything to make the grey patches go away? (make sure to set it back to 0 afterwards.) 
Daya - Wild Guess 
Are your sky brushes textured sky on all sides? Those brushes can hickup when a normal texture is on one side. 
The grey patches was indeed because the sky brushes were clipping through other brushes. Fixing that also fixed the grey world bug, somehow. 
Hello, Im back here to know if exist mapping guides talking about entities and keys, if be so much thanks. 
Spec And Bible 
WARNING: Reached Occupant At (592 96 -96) 
I know this is supposed to indicate a leak, but at specifically this error in the map is just a light. If I remove this light, the error will change to the next light. And if I remove all the lights it will go to a different entity like for example, a spawn point. But the weird part is, these entities all worked fine at one point. A .prt file could be created for it, everything worked, vis ran perfectly fine and I had a working map. I wasn't satisfied with the lighting and as soon as I changed even one light, it would all give me errors. I can go back of course, but I have made a lot of changes since then and don't want to lose everything so does anyone have an idea of what could be wrong? I have already tried several other QBSP versions and they all give me the same shit so I assume its possibly Trenchbroom. 
It's Not TrenchBroom. 
There is a leak in your map. Afaik, the point file trace always starts and / or ends in entities. The algorithm uses entities to determine what the inside of the map is. 
Thanks for the hint, this may also be why some vanilla GPL maps gives the same error. I'll look into this. 
Load the map and enter the pointfile command in the console. Turn on noclip and go find the dashed line. The line will lead you through wherever the leak is on its way to whichever entity it reached first. 
Load the point file in TrenchBroom. Note that the file must be in the same directory as the map file and that the base name of both files must be identical. The next beta will allow you to load point files from any location. 
That was really fast, I fixed my problem immediately after you pointed that out, thank you a lot 
I've realized Jackhammer loads point files automatically, as rainbow-colored lines.

Also, after spending hours trying to understand how to fix the leak, I've figured out that the pointfile ends exactly where there's an empty BSP node that must be filled. Problem solved. 
Is there a way to use func_group in Trenchbroom? The option is there, but it doesn't seem to work. I tried it with two brushes, and all it did was group the brush's bounding boxes together, but I was still able to manipulate both brushes independently. 
To select the group you double click 
In TB2 That Is 
You can get the latest beta from under downloads. 
Thank You Both. 
Noob question. I'm having trouble getting the Zerstorer entities into Quakespasm. I can load the mod in the Mod tab but the entities don't populate. Looking at the documentation (I'm using TB 2.0.0) it seems like I need a DEF or FGD file, but I don't see one in the zer folder. I do see a list of "entity definitions" in the dev readme but I'm not sure what to do with it.

If anyone can help, or hell, better yet, post a DEF or FGD file with the models already set up to display in TrenchBroom, that would be very helpful! 
Def Files 
I'd try pasting those entity definitions into a text file, and saving it with the filename "zer.def". You won't get the models, because that's a 2015 feature in a 1997 defintion file, but it should be usable. 
Never mind, I actually found an FGD file put together by CZG in the Zerstorer Mapjam thread. Thanks anyway.

Ok, so now for my real question. I started putting together a map for Quoth using Trenchbroom 2 (not Quakespasm as I said above, lol), but my ultimate goal is to make a map using Quoth entities BUT ALSO the riot controller (SSG replacement) from Zerstorer--but nothing else from zer. Trenchbroom allows me to load multiple mods into my map, and I also copied everything relevant to the riot controller from the zer FGD file to a copy of the Quoth FGD that came with Trenchbroom. This seems to do what I want, since I can see everything Quoth in the entity panel, plus the riot controller.

So is it that simple or am I opening the door to all kinds of horrible conflicts between the two? (I'm not close to a point where I can compile it and test it out.) Also, how does using multiple mods for Trenchbroom actually work in terms of running the map? I've noticed that I can only select one set of entity definitions at a time, making me wonder how multiple mods fit in. This doesn't really seem to be detailed in the TB documentation. 
Multiple Mods 
Also, how does using multiple mods for Trenchbroom actually work in terms of running the map? I've noticed that I can only select one set of entity definitions at a time, making me wonder how multiple mods fit in. This doesn't really seem to be detailed in the TB documentation.

Although I have heard of an engine that tried to support this, in general there is no way to run more than one mod at once. Certainly for a first map I think that focusing on one would be the smart thing. 
Figured that would be the case. Thanks for taking the time anyway, cheers! 
That Isn't Going To Work 
You would need the source code for both mods and you would need to copy the relevant bits of code over to quoth and compile it. Not forgetting the assets like the model and sounds 
It's A Bit Misleading 
Mods actually just add more directories to search through for assets such as models. That's all. 
Well, that's on my wishlist for the next Quoth update then ;) 
Malformed Map File 
Haven't had that one in a while...
Tried to open map2 of my mod in TB, but I had this in red:
"Malformed map file: expected token of type opening parenthesis, or closing parenthesis, but found integer number at line 178, column 65"
I opened the map file in Sublime and went to the line, but it seems perfectly normal...
"( 32 2960 -48 ) ( 32 2960 224 ) ( 320 2960 -48 ) rock 6 0 0 0 1 1"
I tried to delete the line, but the error kept coming, so I deleted the paragraph, this time the error went to another line, which has the same "rock 6 0 0 0 1 1" in its paragraph.
I'm kind of afraid deleting all the paragraphs containing that line would delete an integrate cave I had to model, and TB didn't bat an eye to this. 
That Looks Like A Quake 2 Map File 
Fixed It 
Somehow the texture "rock6" from the first episode of Daikatana was changed to "rock 6". I wonder why. 
Need Some Help... 
All I need is some stats.

My question is what is the longest time it took you to compile a map with lighting on a modern machine? 
That Depends On 
Size of the map, how much detailed brushes...optimized design etc.

Anyway, about 5 or 10 minutes 
Show BSP Information Ingame 

Is there a hidden console command or something else to display BSP information ingame? Like how the Map is divided, which sections etc.

Just like this picture here: 
R_drawflat 1 
Unknown Command R_DRAWFLAT 
I use darkplaces. Which Quake 1 engine do I need to use to get this to work? 
Any Quake 1 Engine 
Which DarkPlaces is pretty much only on paper. 
This One 
Thx Otp 
r_showtris 0/1

r_showbboxes 0/1

r_lightmap 0/1

can be helpful to. 
DP Uses Different Names 
r_showsurfaces (= r_drawflat)
gl_lightmaps (= r_lightmap) 
Other DP Stuff 
"r_drawportals 1" shows the BSP leafs/portals

Also for finding cvars in DP:
"apropos lightmap" will list all cvars with "lightmap" in the name 
Awesome, Thanks! 
Is there is a quick way to align textures on different brushes in TrenchBroom? I can easily tell which ones are not aligned in-game but it's hard to tell in the editor. 
For me is easiest when I turn off texture lock. That way textures are always grid aligned. 
For me is easiest when I turn off texture lock. That way textures are always grid aligned. 
Leaf/portals In Other Engines?? 
Or is it only DP? 
Does Ur Mum Take Three In The Pipe?? 
Or is it only DP? 
Map Compile Error. 
I'm getting an error when compiling a map. I am using trenchbroom to make the map and TyrUtils to compile, with a compiler GUI. I think the compiler is losing track of the .bsp after it converts it, but I'm not sure why. It was working one day, and the next day it was't.

Here's a link to a couple screen shots:

Also, I tried resinstalling TyrUtils and the GUI, but that didn't help.

Any help is appreciated! 
Mixing Liquid Faces? 
like water and sky/lava?

Avoid that by having a small gap between them. 
Looks like it may have been a Windows issue for the above ^^

When he showed me the file, I noticed windows said some content was blocked because it came from another computer. I unblocked it and was able to compile with Quark, but it also had some errors. Very weird , but maybe he can explain better what actually stopped the errors. 
Another Thing To Note Regarding Liquif Brushes 
You have to avoid clipping them out to the void, compensate that by putting worldspawn brushes on/around said liquid brushes. 
Mfx and daya have it; mixed contents error stops the bsp from being created and then vis says no file found. :( 
Arcane Dimension Spider Jumping Through Ceiling 

I made box that is 4 pixels higher and 8 wider than spider entity, but for some odd reason it jumps, stucks, then jumps, starts to slowly get through the ceiling. Like what am I doing wrong? Is there any updates or fixes for that issue*

Here is some screenshots:

In Trenchbroom Editor view:

Running map in Quakespasm engine: 
I had this problem and it was just a matter of fine tuning the position. Either push the spider out a bit or raise the ceiling even higher and test until the thing behaves! 
Thanks For Replying "Spider" 
Ah, yeah it seems to be the case here. Even the main entities like grunts for example needs more or less 80 high and 64 pixels wide because it starts even consider coming out of door. I don't know how does it differ when comparing to other mods, but in "AD" mod enemies AI needs more pixels to work well.

Reason why I'm spending so much time with this is, because I want to make really narrow hallways or put the ceiling really low to create some claustrophobic feelings especially in tech bases.

Another Question: what is the highest angle enemies can run over? 15? 30? 45? I know I should test it by myself - but if someone has already figured that out, why not sharing it here? Also I'm new to this site's interface, don't even know how these topics work. It seems like everyone is stacking replies over the existing ones. 
How Clips Should Work? 
Clips are invisible brushes, right? Should it block player not to stuck on details/geometry? If so, it's simple is not doing that. I placed the clip brush match the detailed brushes, when I run it it didn't block player and player walk between bars etc. and get stuck.

I'm using Quakespasm endige & mod Arcane Dimension. 
make sure all faces of brush are clip texture 
And Also 
And also all faces of brush are clip texture, but it's not working for some reasons. 
Well slopes are just a bit finicky in general for Quake/Brush based so a clip brush would help.

If you have some sort of slope, make some clip brushes in the form of stair steps where the slope "joints" are. that way. 
I want to make really narrow hallways or put the ceiling really low to create some claustrophobic feelings especially in tech bases.

It's not the best idea for quake 
Can you use non-solid details like cables, wire mesh ceilings or thin func_illusionary pipes to make the space appear more claustrophobic that it actually is? 
Reply "Claustrophobia" 
Of course I can use, everything that would replace some hard geometry, because the gameplay is more important. And by claustrophobic spaces I mean actually 80pxl high & 64 wide or more, nothing crazy really. Though it would be nice to make something like "Beyond Belief" did in one map, where it felt like players head touched the ceiling but didn't get stuck.

I really well know that player doesn't move that smoothly if there is so much corners, doorways with details and so on. That's why I thought using clips would make it feel much smoother to move around, even in larger areas when it comes to moving near the walls if there is pillars, pipes or something a bit detailed work.

That clipping bug might be Trencbroom 2's fault, because it's still in beta. 
I Don't Think It's A Bug In TB 
Reply 'I Don't Think It's A Bug In TB' 
There is something with the placing entities, it seems like in the last stable version of TB1 everything is fine, but in TB2 some entities doesn't seem to appear exactly in those positions I placed them.

Thankfully there is couple transparent textures, and there is even invisible texture in wad "rmq_trans" hopefully that will work out* 
When Using Arcane Dimensions 
try setting no_item_offset 1 in worldspawn. 
Or It's A Problem With The Def Or FGD? 
Reply 'When Using Arcane Dimensions' 
Thank you very much*

More questions.. is there possible to set brushes be solid for player/enemies collission box detection, but you can shoot through it bullets/projectiles? For example if I use transparent chain-link fence textures in my brushes, it looks silly that enemies can't see you or you can't shoot or allow them shoot through it. It should only block/blow up physical projectiles like grenades/rockets... that might be too much to ask when starting to think about it. Unless it's possible to code into game's logic.

I know about coding a bit, so it shouldn't be to hard for me to understand quake's logic. But haven't been touching those files at all, dare I even look into that's a better question* 
Reply 'Or It's A Problem With The Def Or FGD?' 
It sure can be* I remember having no issues if I can recall when I used Quoth quake mod for example.. but I have to be sure about that first, it should be quite easy to test out. 
Re #16457 
did the no_item_offset key work?

For fence-textured stuff, make this func_illusionary, and cover it later with clip brushes (those are brushes textured with the "clip" texture on ALL sides)

Should block player/monster movements and be still shot through. 
Reply 'Angles' 
Thanks, what an nice idea - I will use it totally sooner or later* 
Re #16459 
Yes it did.. clipping seems to work now.. I don't what I did work but now player moves smoothly near the iron bars.. what a relief ^^ 
Re #16459 Sorry Grammar Mistakes 
Yes clipping works now.

I don't know what I did, but it works now and player moves smoothly near the iron bars.. what a relief ^^ 
Netradiant Compiling/Linux Question... 
Don't know if this counts as a mapping question, but there's no Netradiant/general editor thread from what I can see...

I want to set up Netradiant from xonotic's git as an alternative to use alongside TB (xaGe kindly suggested it to me a lifetime ago, but other things got in the way in the mean time). Compiling things from source and using git etc. always tends to make my brain melt and once again I'm running into trouble and need help.

I've consulted the compiling instructions, according to which I need the following on Linux:
27 - gcc >= version 3.1 (preferably)
28 - GNU make
29 - svn >= 1.1 (some build steps use svn)
31 dependencies:
32 - gtk+ >= 2.4.0 (requires glib, atk, pango, iconv, etc)
33 - gtkglext >= 1.0.0 (requires opengl)
34 - libxml2 >= 2.0.0
35 - zlib >= 1.2.0 (for archivezip module)
36 - libpng >= 1.2.0 (for imagepng module)

This was already a bit puzzling to me, as these things seem to have slightly different names when I try to look for them in Synaptic Package Manager, but I think I now have everything in that list installed (plus possibly a few extra things).

I've done git clone git:// and went into the "netradiant" directory, but now when I run "make" I get this output:

checking that the build tools exist
Checking for /bin/sh (bash (or another shell))... found.
Checking for echo (coreutils)... found.
Checking for echo -n (coreutils)... found.
Checking for cat (coreutils)... found.
Checking for mkdir -p (coreutils)... found.
Checking for cp (coreutils)... found.
Checking for cp -r (coreutils)... found.
Checking for rm -f (coreutils)... found.
Checking for rm -f -r (coreutils)... found.
Checking for mv (coreutils)... found.
Checking for echo test | tee /dev/stderr (coreutils)... found.
Checking for sed (sed)... found.
Checking for find (findutils)... found.
Checking for diff (diff)... found.
Checking for cc (gcc)... found.
Checking for g++ (g++)... found.
Checking for ranlib (binutils)... found.
Checking for ar (binutils)... found.
Checking for pkg-config (pkg-config)... found.
Checking for unzip (unzip)... found.
Checking for git (git-core)... found.
Checking for svn (subversion)... found.
Checking for wget (wget)... found.
Checking for ldd (libc6)... found.
All required tools have been found!

checking that the dependencies exist
Checking for glib/gutils.h (libglib2.0-dev)... not found, please install it or set PKG_CONFIG_PATH right!
To see the failed commands, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=verbose
To proceed anyway, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=off
Checking for libxml/xpath.h (libxml2-dev)... not found, please install it or set PKG_CONFIG_PATH right!
To see the failed commands, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=verbose
To proceed anyway, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=off
Checking for png.h (libpng12-dev)... not found, please install it or set PKG_CONFIG_PATH right!
To see the failed commands, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=verbose
To proceed anyway, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=off
Checking for GL/gl.h (mesa-common-dev (or another OpenGL library))... not found, please install it or set PKG_CONFIG_PATH right!
To see the failed commands, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=verbose
To proceed anyway, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=off
Checking for gtk/gtkdialog.h (libgtk2.0-dev)... not found, please install it or set PKG_CONFIG_PATH right!
To see the failed commands, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=verbose
To proceed anyway, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=off
Checking for pango/pangoft2.h (libpango1.0-dev)... not found, please install it or set PKG_CONFIG_PATH right!
To see the failed commands, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=verbose
To proceed anyway, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=off
Checking for gtk/gtkglwidget.h (libgtkglext1-dev)... not found, please install it or set PKG_CONFIG_PATH right!
To see the failed commands, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=verbose
To proceed anyway, set DEPENDENCIES_CHECK=off
Checking for dlfcn.h (libc6-dev)... found and links.
Checking for zlib.h (zlib1g-dev)... found and links.
make: *** [dependencies-check] Error 1

I've checked again, and the "not found" items are things I have installed, so I'm stumped. Should I "set PKG_CONFIG_PATH right!"? What does that mean? 
Ok, so maybe I'm just an idiot and didn't install all the dependencies although I thought I had ...

Just installed a bunch more stuff, but "make" still gives me an error message. It's miles long and ends with
make: *** [contrib/bobtoolz/DPatch.o] Error 1


(I didn't post the full terminal output here since it's really, really long and I don't know which parts of it are relevant.) 
(I didn't post the full terminal output here since it's really, really long and I don't know which parts of it are relevant.)
use or similar :)

The make error 1 line doesn't tell anything useful, unfortunately. 
also I think this is the latest netradiant:

From looking at that readme, it looks like they've switched to CMake.

Yeah, the main trick is finding the debian package names.. which can take a bit of guesswork. e.g. the readme says you need GTK2, the corresponding debian package is "libgtk2.0-dev". Just use google when in doubt I guess. 
Thanks For Responding, Ericw! 
Oh, never used pastebin before. And the output seemed a lot longer the first time around; now there doesn't seem to be that much of it. Anyway, here it is: 
From looking at that readme, it looks like they've switched to CMake.

Ah, so I've been following outdated instructions...

So I did cmake -H. -Bbuild -G "Unix Makefiles", and that did something, but now I don't know what I'm supposed to do next, or whether I was supposed to something else first... the readme doesn't make that much sense to me. 
Seems the code is written for C++11 but the compiler is not expecting that version of C++.

you can try running: CXXFLAGS="-std=c++11" make
instead of just make

I would report it as an issue to the netradient devs though. Also, what is the output of: g++ --version
After doing
cmake -H. -Bbuild -G "Unix Makefiles"

you should do this:
cd build

CMake generates the Makefile for building radiant in the "build" subdirectory. (when you run "make", it looks for a file called Makefile in the current directory). 
g++ (Ubuntu 4.8.4-2ubuntu1~14.04.3) 4.8.4
Copyright (C) 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO

I'm doing
cd build

and something is happening... 
Thank you, ericw! 
Great :) 
Help For Mac 
how I can qbsp a map in mac? The qbsp opens with terminal but i can�t drag a map. 
Weird Compile Error

Not very sure how to find those bad faces in TB2. Anyone care to help? 
Hm, the error message got a bit distorted from multiple threads printing at once.

The verts listed in the error will show you where the face is.. what I always do is create some point entity like a light, and paste in one of the verts from the error message. e.g. check out "1512.000 1300.000 488.000".

You should just need to reset the texture alignment on these faces, and that should fix the problem 
@Johnison Boa 
copy the "qbsp" executable in your quake/id1/maps folder.

Open Terminal, and enter:
cd ~/Desktop/quake/id1/maps

assuming your quake directory is on your desktop, adjust as needed. 
BSP (or Not). 
Working with Jackhammer on my new laptop, but I can't seem to get any compile progs to create a .bsp file (even tho the compile window says they are):

---- WriteBSPFile ----
17 planes 340
22 vertexes 264
6 nodes 144
16 texinfo 640
16 faces 320
12 clipnodes 96
2 leafs 56
16 marksurfaces 32
72 surfedges 288
37 edges 148
4 textures 38260
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 323

1 warning

Elapsed time : 0:00

Peak memory used : 0.1 MB

** Executing...
** Command: C:/Program Files/Jackhammer/quake/vis.exe
** Parameters: "C:Program Files (x86)QuakeId1mapstestes"
Quake VIS Compiler (build Dec 11 2013)
------------ vis ------------
************ ERROR ************
Error opening C:Program Files (x86)QuakeId1mapstestes.bsp: No such file or directory

Any ideas? 
The proper slash grammar for the file (C:\Program Files (x86)\Quake\Id1\maps\testes) wasn't retained for some reason when I pasted that last post in. 
Oh Jesus God. 
It's still not doing it -- well, that's not a factor, in any case ;D 
Maybe It's Because Of The Spaces In The Path? 
What, you mean with "Program Files", and whatnot? I didn't have a problem with that before. 
Oops, sorry for later answer. Thanks for help 
Were You Also Using Jackhammer Before? 
When Portal Prt Files Go Wrong 
Any idea why, on a ridiculously large map using bsp2, the map won't do vis properly saying there is a leak and drawing a portal line right through a solid face?

I tried the ol trick of a box around the whole level but it says there's too many verts.

Sorry, using Tyrbsp for bsp2. 
Yeah, I was using Jackhammer. Guess I could try compiling directly from the C: drive to see if that's the culprit in this case. 
Which hull is the leak in? If in hull 2, there is a good chance a clip brush over that brush (where the pointfile goes right through) will do the trick.

Else, rebuild that brush or change brushorder in the .map file(put it first), or or or.. 
My Qbsp 
In terminal I put mycd~/desktop/quake%folder/qspasm/Quake/MapID/maps/qbsp and then not works :(

what I skipped? 
Johnison Boa 
Looks like you put the two commands ericw gave you together by accident, maybe?

First, you need to type
cd ~/wherever/you/put/your/mapfiles

(this just means that you go to the directory where your maps are; "cd" stands for change directory. Don't forget the space after "cd")

and then

./qbsp thenameofyourmap

(This is to run the qbsp executable.)

All of the above is assuming you have the qbsp executable and .map file in the same directory. 
If there's a space in the directory name you need to escape it with a backslash like:
cd ~/Desktop/quake\ maps/
or surround the path with quotes. Tab completion should do that automatically. 
Apparently relocating Quake to the base C drive took care of things. Odd that I had to do that, but as long as it works... 
I've Always 
Have QUAKE directory directly under C to avoid "Windows cannot find directory C:\Program" during compile since because Windoze. 
I've had issues with maps not compiling using Ericw's tools as well, and I've found that putting the .map itself in the C drive fixes the issue right away.

Anyway, I'm having an issue with the vorelings in Quoth. They're tiny little critters, so I figured they'd be fine getting stuffed into a small hole and jumping out at the player as they walk by. No such luck, as they get stuck. The only workaround I've been able to figure out myself is to make a bunch of func_illusionaries around them so they can actually get out of the hole.

In that pic you can see the two small holes. The brush between them, as well as brushes sixteen units to either side of them and about 32 units above them are all func_illusionaries. This "works," as far as the vorelings' intended behavior goes, but it's far, far from ideal because shots and grenades go right through the illusionaries as well, and I could fit Quakeguy's entire body up there with a rocket jump. Is there a better way to pull this off. 
R_showbboxes 1 Is Your Friend. 
The quake engine only supports three sizes of objects when it comes to things fitting through gaps:

� Point sized
� Human sized
* Shambler sized

Vorelings are "human sized" for this reason. If you want them to come from a surprising angle, the option of making them hang from a ceiling is worth considering. 
you could use func_illusionary to make the holes appear smaller than they actually are, and allow the vorelings through. 
nevermind I totally didn't read your post properly 
@onetruepuple - Very useful, thanks!

@Preach - That is very good to know. 
I tryed enter:



cd ~/Users/usuario/Desktop/Quakefolder/Quake/MapID/maps./qbsp

cd ~/Users/usuario/Desktop/Quakefolder/Quake/MapID/maps/qbsp

and more.

I can`t qbsp, vis, light with tyran utils in mac, the binnaries are recognized as unix file... 
Where is the file "", and where is the qbsp executable? Are they both in
/Users/usuario/Desktop/Quakefolder/Quake/MapID/maps? Are you sure this is the correct path? If so, what you need to do is open a Terminal and type:

cd ~/Desktop/Quakefolder/Quake/MapID/maps

Press the "enter" key, and then type


and press the "enter" key again. 
I have qbsp in maps folder, but this action too I was done 
Do doors not block light? 
all func_* (b_models) do not block lights.
you can set a key on them, shadow 1. with this they will cast shadows, but no dynamic shadows.
So a door that is closed will have a shadow, but opening it wont remove the shadow drawn.
Can look strange and all. 
Dont`t Care More My Qbsp :) 
I downloaded ericw/tyrutils and now it works perfectly ;D 
@mfx That's also good to no. Fortunately I didn't need to implement shadow 1 after messing with the troublesome lighting. Lighting is hard! 
Help :O 
I added the "centroid" to quake.fgd, next I put scor.mdl and h_scourge.mdl to directory(obviously tested), next I added it to TB map, but when I test the bsp of this, the centroid not exists...

I need some other file? 
you're missing the centroid code my friend. I'm not sure if Scourge of Armagon's source has been released for you to compile a new progs.dat.

The next best bet is to map for a mod with it included. I think the Drake mod has it but I'm not sure any others do. 
5th Elephant 
Ok, when release my game obligated to make a .pak. 
What I Put For Look In Intermission? 
No Reply, I Found It... 
The Eye Of Hurricane In My Map 
func_plat starts in up floor, I want to stop it when be down, but I also want the plat up when player leaves it... 
Johnison Boa 
Not sure I understand what you want to do, but keep in mind that you can use a func_door (or even func_door_secret) to create a lift in a map.

A func_plat always starts at the bottom and moves up, but with a func_door you can create a lift that starts at the top and moves downwards (which sounds like what you are trying to do).

This might help a little: 
I forget that I watched it in the map source 
Undoing Func Brushes? 
I've been trying to make a first test for my map but vis can't get compiled because of lots of func_wall that I used on a group of brushes so I could select them easier (TB1).
Is there a way to turn them back to worldspawn brushes? Just putting "worldspawn in their classname doesn't seem to do anything. 
Right Click On Brush(es) Add To World 
Or something similar.

I think that is what you are looking for? 
Yes It Is, Thank You! 
Visiblity Problems 
In vis appears "couldn't read Qf1m1.prt" and is not there in "maps". Also when I test my map some boxes are not existing in the place I put and when I put "noclip" I look the same box in back floor or simply was not reached in game, with the most of the items it happens.

I want to know if is problem of the .prt file or another thing I don't considered.
Actually I never hit such issue, so, maybe it is just a path declaration problem when runing the tool (I would look for the prt file and try to figure out whether it exists... and if yes, where it is located first)

Also, is it happening with fast vis or full vis ? 
Fast & full? (?)
I have vis in "Quake/MapID/maps" for a custom mod, but when is time to vis the Qf1m1.bsp "couldn't read Qf1m1.prt"

I don't know if the .prt file is generated by qbsp or light, and also I don't know if .prt file has an important rol 
@Johnison Boa 
Your map probably has a leak. The PRT is generated by QBSP, but only if the map is sealed.

TrenchBroom has a "Load Point file" command that usually shows where the leak is. 
thanks, the leak was deleted 
Is necessary that the cd audio be 16 bits old?
I'm planing to make one for my mod... 
igonre "old" 
Two Bits More 
and he will be able to vote! 
Fast Vs Full Vis... No I Am Not "crazy" 
You can try to add a -fast option in your vis tool: this allow to have a faster processing, than a full vis as explained here below

fastvis - Performs a bsp and a quick version of the vis process. The entire world is made into a single bsp partition. It's fast, but when you look in a particular direction, you see every single detail in that direction. Nothing is blocked. A light map is created. This mode was used for space maps.

fullvis - the world is subdivided and broken up into smaller chunks so you can see only what is logically in your view. A light map is created. This is what is used to check polygon-in-view counts. Combined with light extra, it is the final compile for all maps.
I want use Rubicon2 for my new map. But I want to change palette. How is this possible? I planned to make a separate directory. I tried to run

quake.exe -basedir rubikon2 -game mygame

But rubikon2 not a separate game. His requires ID1. Are there any ideas? 
Make a copy of rubicon2 and put your palette in there. 
Interesting idea. Thanks! 
Humble Suggestion 
Why not make a copy of RRP instead? It's got all of Rubicon2 with a couple of extra tools and enemies, and is documented.

The only change to the original entities is the spawn, which has lower health and jumps less - although the reception was positive for this change.

It's not endorsed by Metslime of course, so if you want a clean Rubicon2 experience then maybe just stick with that. 
As far as I can remember, I played a little in the RRP, but I liked him. I will soon be playing again. And if it is more appropriate for my ideas, then I'll take it. Thanks for the idea 
Lighting Question 
I'm a situation that has left me rather stumped. Instead of explaining it, I have provided an illustration of the effect I wish to accomplish:

What would be the easiest, or most efficient way to achieve this, other than a huge number of anti-lights? 
Best Guess 
A big invisible brick in the sky that blocks the sunlight. With that texture name that makes it not be seen, whatever it's called. 
shadow 1
skip textured