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Mapping Help
This is the place to ask about mapping problems, techniques, and bug fixing, and pretty much anything else you want to do in the level editor.

For questions about coding, check out the Coding Help thread: http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60097
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Need Help 
Greetings everyone! I'm pretty new at Quake mapping and mapping in general for that matter and need help.

I'm trying to build a map for Quake Rally. It is a rough recreation of Bowser Castle 1 from Mario Kart. When compiling the map it seems to do fine but when it runs Quake (I use Qrack by the way) it plays my pc's error sound and closes Qrack. I can fix this by changing the sky brush to a different texture and getting rid of the lava. This allows the map to compile and launch. Once I get in the game though it spawns me in one of the outer walls instead of where the info_player_start is. I can walk out of the wall and fall to the floor. Once i'm on the floor I am able to walk around the bottom of the map until i hit an invisible wall or the game window turns black. I've tried all I can think of and can't get it to work properly, any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. 
 
What are the coordinates of your info_player_start? Likely the entire map needs to be shifted to be inside +/-4096. 
 
The info_player_start is at -1440 8832 360 
Standard BSP Limit 
Yep that's it. Select all and move to center everything over the world's 0 0 0. Make sure you have Texture Lock on when you move it or everthing will get off.

Quake has a max positive or negative position of 4096 in any direction. I believe you can still have stuff past 4096, like distant towers or some such, it just won't be reachable. <side note> certain engines allow for larger maps if you compile with -bsp2 but I don't recommend it for beginners unless your map is truly that gobsmackingly huge. 
No Option To Add A Wad File 
https://speeed.ga/pic/none.jpg



I have the wad place in

quakedev/wads

Thanks 
Jaeon 
You need to set (or reset) your Quake directory in Preferences. 
Follow Up 
Merry Christmas ! I see that you are the author of the top notch youtube tutorials. I did not want to be more specific in my initial post. What I am attempting is to add a generic game, namely Kingpin. I again followed your setup tutorial. I was able to add a def file(which initially did not provide for a worldspawn) but by cutting and pasting other def or fgd files I overcame that problem. That does not mean the I solved the problem. I was also able to get the textures in Trenchbroom though I can't be specific as to how.

Maybe this log will help. By no means do I expect you to solve this but any suggestions would be great

---- qbsp / ericw-tools v0.18.1 ----
Input file: k1.map
Output file: k1.bsp

---- LoadMapFile ----
*** WARNING 06: No info_player_deathmatch entities in level
36 faces
6 brushes
3 entities
1 unique texnames
3 texinfo

*** WARNING 00: No wad or _wad key exists in the worldmodel
Processing hull 0...
---- Brush_LoadEntity ----
6 brushes
12 planes
---- CSGFaces ----
36 brushfaces
24 csgfaces
12 mergedfaces
---- SolidBSP ----
24 split nodes
6 solid leafs
19 empty leafs
0 water leafs
0 detail leafs
0 detail illusionary leafs
0 detail fence leafs
0 illusionary visblocker leafs
33 leaffaces
33 nodefaces
---- Portalize ----
19 vis leafs
19 vis clusters
48 vis portals
---- FillOutside ----
18 outleafs
---- MergeAll ----
6 mergefaces
---- SolidBSP ----
6 split nodes
6 solid leafs
1 empty leafs
0 water leafs
0 detail leafs
0 detail illusionary leafs
0 detail fence leafs
0 illusionary visblocker leafs
6 leaffaces
6 nodefaces
---- Portalize ----
1 vis leafs
1 vis clusters
0 vis portals
---- Tjunc ----
12 world edges
24 edge points
0 edges added by tjunctions
0 faces added by tjunctions
---- MakeFaceEdges ----
---- GrowRegions ----
Processing hull 1...
Processing hull 2...
*** WARNING 16: Texture b_cp_v18 not found
---- WriteBSPFile ----
Wrote k1.bsp
17 planes 340
8 vertexes 96
6 nodes 144
3 texinfo 120
6 faces 120
12 clipnodes 96
2 leafs 56
6 marksurfaces 12
24 surfedges 96
13 edges 52
1 textures 8
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 401

0.031 seconds elapsed
Peak memory usage: 168816 (164.9k) 
Vis Murderation. 
0....1....2....3....4....5\
WARNING: RecursiveLeafFlow: recursion on leaf 550


Help please.

Yes I have googled and searched through this thread and see leafs mentioned a lot but don't understand what is going on nor how to fix it.

Yes I have used a LOT of func_detail_walls and func_detail_illusionaries

Yes my map does have a lot of botched rotated stuff tho.

Ta
 
Yes my map does have a lot of botched rotated stuff tho

Live by the sword.... 
Thanks Kinn. 
Any idea how to fix or reduce the Leaf Recursion error?

Incidentally, I didn't get this error when I did a fullvis a week or two ago, when I already had almost all of the rotated stuff in place. 
I Unno 
I assume the warning message doesn't indicate the area of the map where the problem is?

Is what you've posted all the info that you have? 
Wired Lmscale Behavior 
trying to compile map with options (using ericw-tools 0.18.1):
light.exe -lmscale 4

And here results on different sourceports (latest available versions):
FTE https://imgur.com/a/6mLY1mM
QS https://imgur.com/a/GyzozC8
QSS https://imgur.com/a/jE0nvBA

For FTE all working well. According to http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=4&start=19267&end=19267#19267 this feature supported by QSS, but actually not, or im doing something wrong? Maybe i need some additional parameters or config tweaks for QSS? And is this feature supported by QS?

And one more question about ericw-light. When im using options:
light.exe -extra4 -lmscale 4
it reports error:
C:\projects\ericw-tools\light\trace_embree.cc:696: Q_assert(rayindex <= 32767) failed.

Anyone know any workarounds for this particular options combination? 
 
Hey, I downloaded gtkradiant, made a test map, and found the bsp menu empty, so I cant compile. I then found a link to netradiant, made a testmap and tried to compile. it makes a testmap.bak file. I need a bsp file right? the hell do i do? 
@-StrickNine 
That's because GtKRadiant is an editor, not a compiler.
For god compiler files search for ericw compiler

I tried a long time to get the compiler running under Radiant.
Then I decided to use the editor for maps,
and save the map to a different file with the compiler tools.
Works fine now. 
 
thanks for the reply madfox. I see now in radiant when i use the compile options it writes it to qe3bsp.bat, but the syntax is all wrong so it doesnt work. I downloaded the ericw tools and did it manually. The level loads, but the textures don't. Any idea why? 
@strickNine 
Check for spaces in the pathnames to your wad. Compilers can chock on those. I recommend using Necros' Compiling GUI to simplify the process. https://shoresofnis.wordpress.com/utilities/ne_q1spcompilinggui/ 
#20009 (@KLIMaka) 
I don't know why you're getting different results in qss from either of the other two engines.
what I can say, however, is that you should be using the _lmscale worldspawn/entity key instead of the -lmscale commandline arg - this will fix QuakeSpasm/others (by providing multiple sets of lightmap data in a backwards-compatible way, allowing for opportunistic upgrades). (This also allows different lightmap scales per func_detail etc, unlike the commandline arg.) 
Wad File 
When the wad file doesn't load it means the path is unclear.

You can open the *.map file with TexPad and at the beginning you see something like:

"classname" "worldspawn"
"message" "MyMap"
"worldtype" "0"
"sounds" "4"
"wad" "C:/Quake/ID1/Quake101.wad"


It is the wad path you should look at and make sure the wad files are in C:\Quake|ID1\... 
#20014 (@Spike) 
Thanks! I tried it before, but just now figured out that
_lmscale == 1/-lmscale 
Trigger_teleport, Info_teleport_destination And Trigger_once 
Hello, I am teleporting monsters into my map. I have made two functioning examples. They work fine. The third teleports the monster to 0, 0, 0 no matter what I try. I know the third example is set correctly because when I make a map just to test it no problems occur. Any thoughts? 
Jaeon 
There's a problem with the teleport destination. Check if the targetname is correct, if the (skill) spawnflags are correct, and if it's placed correctly (enough space, not inside geometry). 
Figured It Out 
The first teleport combo was set wrong but none the less it worked. The second was a copy and paste of the first with target and targetnames changed and it worked as well. The third one was a new build with the same target and targetname scheme used previous with minor changes to indicate new events. Initially I was transported to 0, 0, 0. I saw an error and fixed it then the monster went to 0,0,0. I spent a couple hours trying various things but none of that was fruitful so I began asking for help and rereading the docs. I interpreted them differently and fixed my scheme. It now works. The reason my third scheme worked in a map with no other schemes seems to verify that one or two mistakes can be forgiven but as in life if you keep making the same mistake over and over you will pay. Thanks for the reply negke 
Coloured Light ~ Switch On/off 
I have a room with two lights.
One is coloured, the other one not.
When I add a button I can switch the white one on/off,
if I switch the coloured one nothing happens.
Is this preordered? 
 
Can't output centerprint message if activator is not "player" in standart progs.dat (trigger_relay or other). Is there any way to do this? 
 
Set an enemy | 1 key/value field on the trigger sending the message. In singleplayer, the player is always edict number 1 (worldspawn being 0), and the entity being activated should still consider the player its enemy, thus sending the message properly- at least in my experience. Note that this only works in singleplayer, as MP will have different edict numbers for different players. 
@Spud 
I understand your idea, it is interesting, but it does not work for me. The event sends a monster. I added him the property "enemy" "1". He is killed by a Vore's shell. But the message is not displayed.

I looked at the source code.

void () monster_death_use =
{
...  
if (! self.target)     return;  

activator = self.enemy;  
SUB_UseTargets ();
};

Only a number is assigned here. But elsewhere the entity is verified.    

if (activator.classname == "player" && (self.spawnflags & SPAWNFLAG_NOMESSAGE) == 0)

How can this work? 
 
And I have another problem. If I set "enemy" "1" for a monster, then his stops seeing me 
Suggestion For Digs 
Hi Digs,

I think you can use the following hack to get your message to display:
https://tomeofpreach.wordpress.com/2012/11/18/mid-map-entity-spawning/
Use this hack to create a trigger with your message, which gets spawned when the Vore dies. You'll need to make sure that the trigger is so big that the player will hit it straight away - why not make it the size of the whole map! 
@Preach 
Thank you very much! This is a very interesting decision. I will try to use it in the future when the opportunity arises. But I already sent the map for which it was necessary. Therefore, now only the next time. Thanks again 
Anyone Using Linux To Map ? 
And would point me in the right direction for tools of the trade, wanted to start making maps for a long time, just lurked around for almost a year... 
@vossk 
Trenchbroom is available for linux:
https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/releases
As well as EricW's compilers:
https://ericwa.github.io/ericw-tools/

I don't use Linux, but this is what I'm using currently for mapping and am pretty happy with it. 
Unreal Engine Question 
Does anyone have a pipeline going from Trenchbroom to unreal engine 4? Or failing that, is there a good way to “map” in unreal engine 4 in a vaguely “quakey” manner? 
Starbuck 
Don't have any experience with it myself, but you might want to check out HammUEr:

https://nte.itch.io/hammuer 
 
HammUEr will be your best bet, me thinks. I havent used it personally but it very much seems to be worth the money. 
HammEUr 
That’s a terrible name for something that looks really good. Thanks! Will look into it. 
How To Change A Q2 Map's Gravity By Hitting An Ingame Button / Trigger 
Is there any resource that could help me find a way to change gravity in Quake2 midmap? Either a tutorial on how to create such a custom entity, a way to alter the existing trigger_gravity in order to affect players as well, or some other way?

Thanks 
TrenchBroom For CTF Maps? 
I'm trying to make a Threewave map. Does anyone know where to find the FGD/DEF files for use with TrenchBroom or another Level Editor? They don't seem to be anywhere. 
Open A Door Using A Key 
How would I create a door that rises upwards when activated by a key? I am using Trenchbroom 2. 
Thoth: 
Good question about CTF.

As far as I know, back in the day CTF mappers would just edit their own copy of the fgd to define a few more entities, because there weren't that many new entities to add & they didn't have many interesting keys to set on them.

(Or even manually edit the map file to add the entities.)

You have item_flag_team1 and item_flag_team2 for the red/blue flags. Then info_player_team1 and info_player_team2 for the initial spawns. The spawn entities could have the angle key set to determine their facing. That's about it.

For respawns after the initial team spawns, that just used normal info_player_deathmatch entities. 
What About Runes? 
Are they just the normal quake runes? Or is there a different info? 
 
Runes will automatically spawn at randomly selected info_player_deathmatch locations. 
Failing To Understand Func_wall 
Hello folks,

My goal: Have an explosive box blow a hole in a wall. Simply deleting a brush is all I'm looking for.

The following image shows what I've got:
https://i.imgur.com/fN5jwAk.jpg

I've tried to directly "target" and "killtarget" the func_wall from the misc_explobox, and I've tried throwing a trigger_relay in the middle because some Quake wiki mentioned it. Tried a short delay and I can't really justify why, just throwing things at the func_wall and hoping something sticks. I'm considering using a silent, instantaneous func_plat to "disappear", but there must be a more elegant solution.

Thanks for reading my post 
Tez 
Create a func_door, choose the appropriate spawnflag for the key color you want and then give the value -1 for the angle key. (If you want the door to go down, give the value -2.) 
TheNewFlesh. 
I have no idea, logic looks sensible to me. But the first thing I'd do is troubleshoot the explodobox, replace it with a button and see if that works. If it does and there's an issue with explodoboxes targetting stuff, then put an invisible shootable button beneath the explodobox and have that killtarget the func wall? 
@NewFlesh, Shambler 
Exploboxes won't trigger or killtarget entities when they explode because on death they run the barrel_explode function, which just goes kablooey and deletes itself and is missing the SUB_UseTargets function that allows an entity to trigger and killtarget things. However, with the dark majyyks of map hacks, it's possible to rig up a setup to do what NewFlesh wants, with only one extra entity and thankfully no usual fussing with any info_notnulls.

Normally, you could just manually set the explosive box to killtarget something by sticking SUB_UseTargets someplace in its key/value fields, but just about every field is already taken- th_die is already filled with barrel_explode. th_pain works, but only activates if the barrel isn't blown up in one shot, and then you have the wall already missing and the barrel still clearly not blown up. If your name is Preach and you're a member of Mensa, maybe you could juryrig something with SUB_CalcMoveDone, but it's five in the morning and none of us have time for that crap. The one big field that we want that a boom-box doesn't use by default is use, but how do you use a barrel o' boom? Make a trigger_once around it with a reasonable amount of health (both sizes of explodebox have 20 health, for reference) and make it just big enough to overlap the funbox. Have the trigger_once target both the explodebox and a relay that killtargets the wall- this is necessary because in id1 progs, you can't have one relay both target and killtarget things at once. Then add a use | barrel_explode key/value pair to the explodebox- this will make it go boom like normal when called upon by the trigger_once. In short:

classname | barrel_explode
origin | (wherever the box is placed)

targetname | splodebox <- add this line, change name if desired
use | barrel_explode <- add this line

classname | trigger_once
target |
splodebox <- make it match the targetname above
health |
20 <- this is the default explodebox health

classname | trigger_relay
origin | (doesn't matter)
targetname |
splodebox <- share a targetname with the actual explosive box so both are hit by the trigger_once
killtarget | splodewall <- use whatever name fits your normal entity naming schemes

classname | func_wall
targetname |
splodewall <- this is the wall you want to be 'destroyed,' so link it appropriately

Double check to make sure everything's wired up right and it should work just fine. Note that this really works with anything you want instead of an actual misc_explobox, but by using an actual box (even if the box itself isn't actually shot by the player) you don't have to worry about spoofing a model or including extra textures or anything. Or, you could just add a tiny invisible button like Shambler suggested... if you're a weenie. 
20051, Continued 
The bit that says
classname | barrel_explode
should actually be
classname | misc_explobox or misc_explobox2
depending on which size box you want to use. I slacked off in proofreading and now I'm the weenie. 
So Basically. 
Use the shootable button method. 
 
I hope you stub your toe on your dumb button. 
Yup. 
Then it will trigger the relay and remove the func wall. Unlike your essay of code, god knows what all that does, maybe someone else can read it and summarise for me. 
From The Quakelab - Exploding Walls 
Here's a file passed the BBS -
Exploding Walls v1.0 from The QuakeLab
6 okt 1996.
It is a nice example of exploding walls.

exploding walls

Have Fun With It! 
Func_wall Suggestions 
Thank you kindly for the suggestions, folks! I'll sink my teeth into it ASAP and I'll be sure to upload a version for testing when it shapes up a little more. 
@spud 
Why not a trigger once under a false floor (beneath the explosion) with health set instead of all that? 
 
No real reason other than autism, I guess. Or that trigger_onces don't take damage from explobox explosions. There's a thousand ways to accomplish the same thing, I just went with the trigger setup out of lack of knowledge for what triggers and buttons would do when in floors, behind geometry, inside the button, etc. 
Heh 
trigger_onces don't take damage from explobox explosions

duh me 
Spud You're Scaring The Children 
A trigger_once inside the explodobox will suffice 
Hide The Children. 
Trigger_once doesn't take damage from the explodobox. Keep up, man. 
Kept Up 
Quick test shows it working here 
 
You got a copy of the .map you can upload? I tried it multiple ways and no matter what, the trigger wasn't hurt and required being shot by the player separately, even when it's buried inside the box itself and should be at ground zero of the explosion. 
I Tested Earlier Also... 
I had same results as Spud. As he and others posted, explodbox did no damage to the trigger. 
Map+bsp 
 
Strange, I'm using what should by all means be the exact same setup and it doesn't work. I thought maybe it was related to entity order but my test has the explobox listed before the trigger_once, just like you do. 
Very Strange 
You can compile the map I uploaded and it works? 
How Do I Make Movers In Quake (Darkplaces)? 
The only id Tech-based game I've ever mapped for is Prey. I like its way to manage movers from its scripting system, where triggers call a scripted function that specifies which movers will have to move, in which direction, how long the movement must take, how many degrees they must rotate...

With the recent news of 3DRealms releasing a Darkplaces-based FPS soon, I started using GTKRadiant to map for Darkplaces. While the process of building the architecture for a level is quite similar to Preditor (because Preditor was based on GTKRadiant), there is no func_mover to select. So how do I add moving brushes in Darkplaces levels? 
@ww 
Yeah, compiled it using ericw's tools and it worked just fine, player_start health buffer and all. 
Devil Master 
This will be specific to the Wrath gamecode, not the DP engine code. For now, just mackle up placeholder movers using the vanilla Quake progs, using func_door, func_train or whatever, and then when 3DR release a dev kit for their game you'll have to convert your placeholder movers over to whatever system they are using. 
Movers In Darkplaces 
Oh. Then, I imagine there's no guarantee it's even gonna be possible to use something similar to Prey's movers, because 3DRealms had made a big deal about making everything with QuakeC, for authenticity's sake.
Which leads me to ask another question: is it possible to use QuakeC to move around models (e.g. .md3 models) instead? 
Explode Box Damages 
my trigger_once - no problems.. I set the health to 2, put the trigger inside (and outside) the box... works fine. 
Func_wall Question Closure 
Ladies and Gentlemen, you've truly gone above and beyond to satisfy my question, and I appreciate it very much.

TL;DR - So far, so good!

I tried trigger_once outside of my explobox, mostly satisfied, but in 1% of my playtests, a monster would trigger it and the wall sequence would fail.

My .map currently has a shootbutton underneath the explobox and it has triggered as intended in 100% of playtests so far. Today, I realized the button is making the typical button sound, and I'd rather not have that.

I'll try the trigger_once INSIDE the explobox, thanks again for the stream of suggestions. If I can't get it to work, I'll fall back to the button and accept the additional sound effect.

I just noticed there was further discussion about my question, so I felt the need to chime in. I do intend to post my map eventually, but it's my first "complete" map. I don't want to spam your board with numerous iterations of this cornball, amateur, mess of polygons. 
@-newflash 
#20058: closed wall that explodes, no matter how many monsters walk aside.
Just reset the path_corners somewhere behind the surface, or they will z-brush. 
Texture Problem? Any Ideas? 
Mostly empty map in which I test new textures. And it seems that some of them are causing problems, 'cause when I fill the level with standard texture, it compiles. One texture at a time it also compiles. But when there are many (no more than 10, actually), it doesn't. Is there a way to pin point the problem (without hours of combinations checking)? I would guess it's something to do with the name, but names are pretty standarad, like: snowed_rock and burned_wood.

line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \S
line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \s
line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \c
line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \Q
line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \I
line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \q
line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \И
line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \T
line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \G
line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \B
line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \S
line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \s
line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \c
line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \Q
line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \I
line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \s
line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \S
line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \s
line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \c
line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \Q
line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \I
line 6: Unrecognised string escape - \f

BTW, what would happen if I'd had textures with the same name? I'm asking, 'cause 2 my of wads have different textures named dry_wood.

---

Texture screen: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mDFK8cLOlgiFY5CqVha5hmsoY_FGeh-i (they are mostly from Tomb Raider xD) 
The Solution? 
eh, I just copied parts of the map into the new file and it works... >_> 
Hi I Need Some Mapping Help. 
I have looked in here but....couldn't get a conclusion.

[19:36] Shambler: can you give me the top ten causes and top ten cures for massive greyscale in quakespasm in this day and age?

[19:36] Shambler: i get a fuck off big lump of it in one area of a map i am working on

[19:37] Shambler: the map is sealed and vises, the other areas are fine, this area is not looking towards an excessively detailed / open view

[19:37] Shambler: there's a lot of func_detail, backed up with worldspawn where it needs sealing

[19:39] Shambler: it occured during testing but not after tinkering with this area in particular (well i was tinkering with a gameplay element but not changing architecture there)
 
Hi 
[21:18] madfox : When I first entered this board in 1999 I was afraid Shambler was really developper of the monster in Quake.
[21:20] madfox : Later on I realized it was just a nickname.
[21:22] madfox: Maybe it's because I'm a foreigner who has to register to post.


Not sure who's Shambler anymore.., 
0.125 
Shambler.map is like madfox.mdl. The two of you should team up... or maybe you've been one and the same all this time! 
Fine. Sending The .map File To You To Fix. 
 
Shambler 
Any screenshots? Also have you tried older versions of ericw's tool to see if there's a difference? 
Hopefully A Dumb Question 
Is there any reason why when I walk down a long hallway, suddenly the nearby geometry goes invisible and I can see through to the other side of the map? Compiled with and without vis, same result.

I've uploaded a clip:
https://gfycat.com/ThatInnocentCrayfish 
 
Your map goes out of bounds, so to speak. Nothing can go beyond the -4096 and +4096 coordinates on each axis. 
@Dumptruck 
Shots from discord:

Before moving into greyflash area:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/292236297173467138/558959023597289495/spasm0005.png

After moving:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/292236297173467138/558959051493605377/spasm0006.png

Greyflash area from other side:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/292236297173467138/558959083273584640/spasm0004.png

I've tried compiling with a new dev build ericw linked me, same issue.

BUT...


[10:24] Shambler: now i just checked and when i delete my big prefab-filled box, it works fine
[10:24] Shambler: prefab box is sealed with func_group (for easy access obvz), not worldspawn
[10:25] Shambler: but that should still stop it being drawn?
[10:25] Shambler: n.b. in image 2, that pillar is func_group or worldspawn now, not func_detail - i changed it cus there is a corridor behind and i was worried about line of sight....makes no difference ofc


It seems to be, in the words of Kinn "the engine hitting the limit of the number of faces it is allowed to draw"??

Obvz I will remove prefab box before release, and I can trim down some designs....but I've got plenty more detail to add....if there is other stuff I can do with func_whatevers....that is useful. 
 
the engine hitting the limit of the number of faces it is allowed to draw

This was always an issue in WinQuake (had to stick beefed up r_maxedges and r_maxsurfs in the config file).

...but, I would have expected QuakeSpasm has this pretty damn high (as in: "you'll never need to worry about it" high) by default??

Do these faces flicker on and off if you move around, shums? 
 
Thank you #20088, there is clearly some fat I can trim from that level 
 
Hello. I want to try to make some maps for Quake. Well, wanted since long ago, but never got far. Now I saw AD and discovered Trenchbroom and had my interest in Q mapping renewed. So I've read Trenchbroom manual, and tried some things, and got some questions.

1. Is there a way to create geometry by drawing it with vertexes from scratch and extruding or smth? In any Q editor?
What are standard ways to shape geometry in Trenchbroom? Vertex tool and Brush tool feel kind of awkward, probably because I dunno how to use them properly lol.
By far I've had most success with cuboids and CSG substract - made a kind of hall with rooms on sides to test various blnking lights in each room.

2. I've finally found out that stuff like doors is done with brush entities and their keys/values, after downloading Quake source maps from Romero's site and looking at them. Wasn't mentioned in manual much (not the brush entities themselves, but making various things :). Should I just continue to look up stuff in id maps and look up entity parameters in editor/the quake wiki entity guide or there exist some good tutorials on the subject? Seems to be better documented for id Tech 1 :)) 
 
Trenchbroom is a multi-game editor, so by design its manual doesn't talk much about the specifics of mapping for a particular game.

Have a look at:

https://quakewiki.org/wiki/Getting_Started_Mapping

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gONePWocbqA&list=PLgDKRPte5Y0AZ_K_PZbWbgBAEt5xf74aE 
@BlueSkullKey 
Doom and Quake mapping are very different beasts as you can see. Your best best is to learn to think and map in 3d. Especially with TrenchBroom as your tool of choice.

Now that being said, there is the "brush tool" (default is B) that you can use to "click" out vertices and then extrude. But I would not recommend making maps entirely this way. It's very limited in that it can only be used on an existing surface and only in 3d mode. It's also a bit clunky. Not many ppl use it AFAIK.

Your best bet is to watch my early tutorials on each of the tools and start creating brushes. For the most part, you will need to abandon most of what you have learned from Doom editing. Quake is true 3d and TB makes creating levels more of a 3d process than before.

The good news there are tons of resources here and elsewhere.

Bal's mapping streams are good to watch - although he's very fast.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/370358937

Good luck! 
2 Post 
regarding the link above.... his mapping starts about 35 minutes into that video. 
 
Thanks for replies. I'll look through links/videos a little later.
I wasn't going to make maps using the brush tool only or such. I'm just trying to figure out what is the usual workflow for creating more complexly shaped things than a corridor or box room, before starting to make a finished map.
Seems that it is mostly adding up sloped/cut/rotated cuboid brushes?
I guess there's also nothing like subdividing faces to get more vertices. 
Freecs FTE Textures Trouble 
Hello, I have some troubles with textures on my map in FTE engine:

My map has low-quality textures and here is how it looks in darkplaces engine:
https://pp.userapi.com/c852036/v852036050/f069d/0_mPVRJq0RI.jpg

In darkplaces I added high quality textures in "textures" folder (each hd texture name corresponds to each lq texture name). I also use normal maps and gloss. Here is how it looks after that:
https://pp.userapi.com/c852036/v852036050/f068b/vqyePzRkKEg.jpg

I tried to do the same in FTE engine. So I have a map with low quality textures and I have some hd textures with normal maps and gloss in "textures" folder. Hd textures are loaded too:
https://pp.userapi.com/c856016/v856016024/17d19/O76Ncfgg5nQ.jpg

After that i decided to run this map in "Freecs" for FTE quake. The problem is that now hd textures are not loaded from "textures" folder. Only normal maps and gloss can be loaded. Screenshot:
https://pp.userapi.com/c852036/v852036050/f0664/6TWdO2Y4pPo.jpg

I replaced all the cfg files in freecs for cfg files from my mod. The graphics changed but my hd textures are still can not be loaded. I also tried to use different formats - tga and jpg for textures in "textures" folder but still no result. Map is in quake 3 format.

Does anyone know how to solve this issue?
(sorry if I made any mistakes, my English is still poor) 
 
try gl_load24bit 1 
Reply To Spike 
This variable is already set to 1 on those screenshots. I tried to change its value to 0 and return to 1 but still nothing changed. 
 
I have path with 3 path_corner ("wait" "-1"). I made 2 trigger_once for start func_train. But only one works. How to make to move to the next path_corner only in the event? 
Digs 
You can't... wait -1 stops the train permanently. 
 
rubicon 2 source has this feature ... every time it's triggered it starts moving again. 
 
I took a look at your source a while back, I'll add it to progs_dump for the next final release. It keeps coming up so ppl want it. 
Quick Question. 
I have seen in some maps glass that is transparent and I couldnt find any help on how to do this.
Can anyone tell me how to do something like this? 
Nolcoz 
"alpha" key on brush entities, from 0 (invisible) to 1 (opaque). 
Thanks! 
 
Water Fullbright/minlight 
Is there any way to make it so water is not a set brightness? I'm using waterfall textures from ikwhite that fall into a vanilla water texture. I need either a way to set the water texture to not be fullbright/minlight or a better texture set for a waterfall into a body of standing water. Thanks for any help. 
^^^^ 
I have not tried this but you try a func illusionary brush above the liquid with a black texture and set alpha between 0 and 1 (i.e. 0.5) to darken the brush underneath.

Good luck! 
@dumptruck_ds 
Thanks. I'll give that a try. 
Different Music Tracks In One Map? 
Hi!
I'm still trying to get more atmosphere to different sections in my map.
Does anybody know if there's a mod or something to play different music tracks in a map, activated by a trigger? 
#20122 AD(Arcane Dimensions) 
Has "trigger_cdtrack"

I'm sure you could look at the QC and use that in your own progs.dat if you did not want to use the whole Mod. 
@_GunStHighway 
Short tutorial from Inside3D.
Quake1 Background Sounds 
@damage_inc And Madfox 
Thanks. I'm testing this and tell you if it works.

Best wishes
Gunny 
Noob Question About Removing Limits 
Hi. I am new to mapping, and working on my first quake map, for AD mod. I am using the latest Quakespasm and Trenchbroom 2.
I am about about halfway done with the map, and seem to have hit the limits. When I compile, no lights and everything is dark.
From scouring the net, I understand I need to use BSP2 and sv_protocol 999 ?
How do I do this ? Where do I change these things ? 
 
From scouring the net, I understand I need to use BSP2 and sv_protocol 999 ?

You 100% do not. 
 
No lights and pitch black map does not sound like something related to hitting any BSP limits, you probably broke something else.
To test bsp2, just put -bsp2 in your qbsp.exe params. 
Compile With Light 
Try running LIGHT.exe when you compile. Tends to brighten things up sometimes. 
@Strydom 
Come over to Quake Mapping Discord for real time help. https://discordapp.com/invite/j5xh8QT

Sounds like you are running light but may not have enough (any?) in your map. If you didn't run LIGHT the map would be full brightness. 
@Strydom 
AND come over to Terrafusion Discord for real time banter and casual on-topic and off-topic chat.
https://discord.gg/d5mytUj 
Silly Question 
and totally out of order,
but how do I take a screenshot in Doom1? 
Screenshotting Doom Properly 
the correct way would be to play it on a 1993 CRT monitor, and take a photo of the monitor display using a traditional film camera, and then get your photos developed (i dunno where you do this now, i used to take mine to Boots in the 90s) and then post your photo via physical mail to a magazine publishing house that still prints a semi-amateur PC gaming magazine, like the sort you'd see in the 90s, you know the ones with headlines like "Commander Keen Kerbstomps The Konsole Kweens". Finally, get the magazine publishers to send you a copy of the edition containing the print of your photo. Anything less just wouldn't feel proper and retro. 
@madfox 
depends on the engine you're using
i'd recommend gzdoom [prtscr button] 
Ah! 
@-Kinn: As I'm a publisher myself I can take my screenshot with a digital camera, send the picture to my computer, and than ask myself what to do with the blurry picture I got myself. Then I won't offend any magazine publisher, or in this case ID1, who is been that good to deliver the Doom'93 programm for free, on which I run it on a 386 PC.

@-spy: Thanks for the info. I'm aware of the SLADE programm, which give me all possible access to the programm itself.

There are a lot of screenshots published, so it's a bit stupid to ask the question anyway. Me in my ninties adaption was thinking there would really be a F12 button to do so.

Why I want a screenshot? Well, after converting all monsters to Quake1 I thought it a good qc aprehension to do so with the weapons as well.
Blessed the poor of armors, for they will inherate the heavens of weapons. 
@madfox 
I use GZDoom and F12 is the key to take screenshots, but i don't remember if i had to change it or not... anyway, if you are using GZDoom just go to the "customize controls" menu and you can set any key you want to take screenshots 
Thanks 
I tried printscreen, but it results in a pink-blue gamma error. Then used my old 386 with VGS (dos screencapture) but then Doom shut of because of the Terminate and Stay Resident prog.
Will try it out anyway. 
Sv_startsound: Not Precached 
While I'm modding, I still can't lay my hands on this little error.

I can't help it. Everytime I add a new monster, with its specific alterations, the game stays persistent giving this warning.
Sometimes after a few weeks, or pakking the file to a pak file it disappears.

How does it come? Is it something hard coded or just a flawn in the engine? 
 
make sure you've called precache_sound() before you call sound() with that name...
some engines allow you to call precache_sound outside of spawn functions while others consider that a fatal error. these permissive engines still expect you to precache, its not fatal to fail to do so but you'll still get warning spam.

secondly, remember that many engines (including quakespasm) are lame and favour files from paks over files outside of them.
(hence why qss and qs display slightly different ordering from the path command).
So yeah, don't put your progs.dat into a pak, at least while still developing your mod. 
Yes 
but I precached new sound in a soldier.qc, made a new sound folder for it, the script runs fine in fteqc and still these warnings apear. The sounds come through well.
Can't think of another place to store them, world.qc?


I run the game in quakespasm_spike_ad. 
WAD For Original Jrbase1.map 
Any idea where can one get the gfx/base.wad file that should have come with the example jrbase1.map in the original source code of QuakeEd? I’m working on a MacOS port of the app and would like to run some tests with it. 
@-Izhido 
I jumped into my archive, installed the original QuakeEd. Read me shows This is qED(tm) Version 2.0.0126 (26 Jan'1998)
I couldn't find the jrbase1.map, probably a later version.
Maybe you could combine it with the original QUAKE101.WAD.

Here is the original sample file that came with Qed2.
Hope it is of any use. 
And 
qedsamp is another one.
This one is slightly larger (2.48Mb).
qedsampq.zip = 1.752Mb 
@-madfox 
Thanks for the help! Alas, the files do not seem to be compatible with what the app needs.
Just to clarify, the app I'm porting is the very, very old QuakeEd written in Objective-C for NeXTstep machines.
Somehow, the app expects a WAD file whose first lump is called precisely PALETTE and contains palette data, followed by many miptextures (and *only* miptextures). I'm not sure that qed, or any of the modern map editors, would have (or generate) files following such a strict sequence and format. 
@-izhido 
I only have the light version of qED as it was a commercial programm, but there´s a work around for it.

With adquedit_v13 you can manage to extract the wadfile into specs for *.lmp and *.mip textures. But there's glitch, it will show the texture files in 16bit only and that's really bad.
Solution is to export your texture files to *.bmp 256bit and export them to *.pcx.

From there you can import them in adquedit again and export them to *.lmp. Then import them back again and export them to *.mip files.
I know, it's a bit complicated, but it works. One good thing is that adquedit has the quakepal.lmp stored.

So let's say you've got your directory with quakepal.lmp first, then you start adding the others to it and when you use quake101.wad you'll be able to import them in Wally and compose your own wad file for research.

I know it is quiet a lot of hussle, but as I suspect you're a tester it shouldn'ty be that much work. 
Monster_damage 
There is a little overvieuw which counts the maximal damage versus ammunition towards monsters.
I'm eagerly searching for it to finish my level.
Does somebody has it close at hand? 
 
This is probably not what you are looking for but it's helped me in the past.

http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=61262&start=26&end=26#26 
Sure 
it's a close goal to reach.
thanks! 
Missing Textures In Darkplaces 
Hi all. About three years ago, I started on my first ever map and got a long way into it before real life got in the way.

I'm coming back to it now and finding that some of the textures seem to be missing in Darkplaces:
https://i.imgur.com/qeL3pUp.jpg
(maps works fine in Quakespasm).

In those three years, I replaced my PC and thought I'd copied the entire Quake directory across so I'm not sure what's gone wrong.

I've tried reinstalling Darkplaces but the textures are still missing.

Any ideas gratefully received. Thanks. 
Re: Missing Textures In Darkplaces 
If only I could delete my previous post.

I found the problem. A .shader file in the ID1/scripts folder. I removed it and bingo! All textures display properly again.

Now to get round to finishing my first ever map ... 
Questions About Csaddon For Quake3 
Questions About Csaddon [EDIT]
Posted by FTE terrain editor, csaddon on 2019/05/15 14:48:19
Hello!
I was making map with landscape for quake3 and when I decided to make landscape with q3 patches I remembered about the csaddon in fte engine. Yesterday I tried it and it works pretty fine but I have some questions about it.

First of all, which type of heightmap is it using? Is it a kind of format which some terrain-editors like worldmachine can use or it is a format which was made only for csaddon editor? And where is it saved? I cant find any heightmap files in maps or in any other folders.

The second question is can I make a lightmap from the sun (q3 shader light) or can I make lightmap for terrain without using any realtime lights? And if I can do that, what exactly should I do?

Thanks, and sorry for my poor English... 
 
its some private sparse format, split over multiple files (which allows for some massive terrain).
losslessly exporting it to a raw heightmap would take 16gb.
the texture blends (and granularity) is unlikely to be compatible with other programs, and would be about 16 times bigger, and it would still be missing data.

the sections get written into some 'maps/FOO/block_XX_YY.hms' files, which you'll generally find in some annoying homedir location somewhere that everyone forgets about etc.
use the 'path' command at the engine's console and you'll see lots of paths, files usually get written to the first one listed.
or `dir maps/*/*.hms` should include the system path info too (and can list dupes if you have the same file in multiple places - a red colour shows inactive entries). 
Landscape Works With Csaddon In FTE 
Hello, I copy this question from my thread which was deleted for some reason. I have some questions about terrain editor in FTE.

First of all, where are all those terrain files saved? I checked maps and other mod folders, but nothing is there.

The second question is which format is used for terrain in that editor? Is it some kind of format which can be used in other editors like worldmachine, or is it format which was created only for FTE?

I wonder how can I make light for terrain on my map. I am making map in q3 format and I would like to use only lightmaps without any rtl lights. But if there is no other way than use rtl lights is there any possibilitiy to make directional rtl light? I mean not pointlight but something similar to sun light shader in q3.

P.S. Nice editor. It is pretty convinient to use and in my opinion it is the simpliest way to make landscapes in quake forks. Thanks for that. 
Sorry For Coping This Here 
Sorry, I didnt notice, that Shambler already copied my question here 
Lightmaps 
What about adding the lightmap. Is it possible to make lightmap "from the sun" for terrain which was created with csaddon? And if it is possible how can I do that? 
Light Sources 
Quick and stupid question: Is there a limit on the amount of light sources one should use in a map? I've kind of gone overboard in my very first room, which has +1000 light sources by now... 
Arkngt 
Your light compile times should let you decide what's too much for your map. If the compile becomes intolerably time-consuming, then consider ways of simplifying your lighting. 1000 in one room does sound a bit crazy (how big and complex is the room?)

Light times for 1/x and 1/x^2 lights will be massively influenced by how much vis-blocking you are doing. If your map is very open without much vis-blocking, lighting will be exponentially more time-consuming than in a room-corridor-room type dealio.

In desperate times, for 1/x and 1/x^2 lights, the "gate" variable can be played with - this sets a hard cutoff on the area of influence of your light, but the light will just visibly "cut off" if the value is too high, so use this with care. 
 
Thanks, much appreciated! Yes, I have six walkways in a room and decided to have small lights on the sides of them, which multiplied the light sources ridiculously. I can probably cut it in hald - every single small light texture doesn't need its on light source I guess.

Nice to know the issue will be compiling time rather than some technical limit. 
 
*half* 
 
So basically six walkways like this, although they weill extend to different rooms:

https://i.imgur.com/P1r1Obn.jpg

If nothing else, tinkering around with Trenchbroom makes me look at other Quake maps with different eyes, checking for neat ideas. 
@-arkngt 
Did you know about surf_light?
It can be helpful with many lights for the same texture. Add one light with the argument surf_light light1 and all light1 textures receive this light without adding one.
Of course this do count as light and goes on for every light1 texture you use. So carefully before you reach the 625 entity count. 
 
surf lighting is very coarse (1 light every 128 units) and not terrible controllable (if faces are split, more lights are generated)

I would consider a different design for the platforms that doesn't use tiling light textures with huge extents. maybe just have some light fixtures plonked along the walkways at reasonable intervals?

@madfox - what "625 entity count" ? 
 
"not terribly controllable" I meant. 
@-Kinn 
I'm still living in the age compilers use this 625 enitty count as limit. That means the total count of entity and lights have this ceiling before the game starts "warning maximum entities reached".
It can be nowadays engines don't have this failure, but I'm like an old dog that can't learn new tricks.
Something like the maximum poly's what is I thought 33768, and then try to build a map with one more to see what happens.

Your declarance though of surf_lights helped me to see why I keep getting those dark spots in my map. 
Dude. 
You do not need anywhere near that amount of overlapping light entities to give a good lit-up effect to that texture. Try 1/4 the amount and play around with the entity values. 
 
@madfox

..... non-interactive light entities with no associated sprites or models, are removed as the map loads, so they don't contribute to the in-game entity limit (the "edict" limit)

This was always the case even with old unmodified engines.

of the lights that aren't removed, some e.g. torches, are turned into statics (so again, not contributing to the edict limit, only the static ent limit)

the only light "edicts" should be those that need dynamic interaction in game, e.g. switchables. 
Arkngt 
Since those lights in the screenshot above are "light_flouro" they are going to make a sound. Might be a bit loud or cause issues. You may want to use them at certain intervals 512 units or so. 
Woah, 
1000 light fluoros per room HYPE! 
FTE Csaddon Terrain Lighting 
How can I make light “from the sun” for the terrain made with csaddon? Is it possible to make the lightmap (I am working with q3 format)? Or if it is not possible, can I make directional rtl light in fte? 
 
How can I avoid monsters to start fighting eachother? (like ogres don't). 
 
Give them all the same classname 
Duh 
(void) monster_anonymous = explode on it selve
return ; 
From A Discussion Thread. 
Lighting For Graveyard And Flat Ambience [EDIT]
Posted by Featheon on 2019/06/01 23:10:21
Thanks for hosting my question. I'm having trouble of solving light sourcing for a graveyard scene featuring tall mausoleum. In your experience, to get an even low ambience, does one use many point entities or one powerful entity and adjust the penumbra? I cannot use worldspawn light more than 20 for this project. Editor is trechbroom, engine is darkplaces.

Thank you.


#1 posted by anonymous user on 2019/06/01 23:30:26 spam
Try these tools if you aren't using them already: https://ericwa.github.io/ericw-tools/

Some options like -bounce may help. You'll need fewer light entities that way.
 
.mdl Files 
What is the preferred way to create (or modify, if possible at all) Quake .mdl files? Unless I’m severely wrong (or utterly blind) the Quake-Tools repo in github do not mention a way to create them with any existing tools.

I know the progs are there, so you can alter their behavior (possibly), but what about their appearance? 
Izhido 
Here's the best tutorial on the web I've been able to find on the subject. This details every step and has links to tools etc.

http://pnahratow.github.io/creating-models-for-quake-1.html 
@-izhido 
I'm not familiar with phonetics but maybe it are the format options this that you searching? 
@-madfox 
1) Nice way to force lowercase :D
2) Nice specification document! I intended, however, to ask for actual model creation tools, just like dumptruck pointed in the page he posted. 
I'll Stay 
lower case,

but just in case your looking for a way to get your jbase.wad right it would help if you have a compiled jbase.bsp or jbase.map file.
AdQEdit has a tool for remipping wadfiles. 
Oh. That Particular Issue 
Has been already solved. In fact, I already created two command-line tools that generate the .wad files that QuakeEd needs to open maps - one that generates plain textures (fakewad) and another that reads them from a pakfile (leechwad). They are now in the QuakeEd for MacOS package, starting from v. 1.0.2 . 
Tessla 
I'm trying to use the tessla coil I made in 2013.
When I download the map from quaketastic and play it everything goes right, with a bright lightning bold.
When I use the map to recompile it I end up in a dimm room with a shaded bold I can hardly see.

Could it be the new compile tools that cause this?
The map hasn't changed.

classname info_notnull
use CastLightning
enemy 1
 
Gate Logic Error: Runaway Loop 
Hi.
Got a problem that I don't understand.
I created a three button gate logic in my map months ago and everything worked fine. Now I tested it again and it crashes all the time when pushing a button for the logic.
Has someone an idea whats going wrong or how I can figure this out? 
Condump 
Probably good to see the error. Advice is to get to the spot where this is triggered. Type clear in the console then trigger the event. When it quits to console, type condump which will spit out a log in your id1 or mod directory. Paste that here and it will help. 
@dumptruck_ds 
Thanks!

Hope I can find the mistake before recreating the whole puzzle. 
Quake 2 Maps Won't Compile 
So I was drafting a Quake 2 map, but upon compiling and running the game I get an error:
CMod_LoadbrushMode: mapbase123.bsp has wrong version number (15972 should be 38).
My Quake 1 maps compile with a few errors but run without any issues, but Quake 2 seems to be throwing fits. Any help would be appreciated. 
 
Are you using Quake 2 compiling tools specifically. I'm not sure of a suite that does both Quake and Quake 2 maps. 
 
No, I'm using the baseline set that came with ericw's tools. Do I need something specific then? 
 
I am pretty sure ericw's tools only work with Quake and Hexen2.

Try these out:

https://sites.google.com/view/quake2/tools

or here (scroll down a bit):

http://maps.rcmd.org/tutorials/q2_mapping_today/ 
 
Kickin, I'll test this out after work and report back any success or failure. Ty man. 
FTE Texture Bug 
Hello, found some bug on md3 models on my q3 map. So I am making map in q3 format and one bug appeared. Look at that:
https://pp.userapi.com/c856036/v856036992/6ca8b/9Q-s-6sd00o.jpg
The part of model is covered with texture and one part is not. It is so weird. The problem is not in model because in darkplaces it works fine. How can I fix that? 
@dumptruck_ds Re: Gate Logic 
So finaly the error report helped nothing.
So I deleted the whole gate logic and rebuild it now.
But now I'm a bit whiser. :)
I think the problem with the infinit loop has something to do with copieng and renaming functions.
It seems, for me, that it's in the program language.
If you copy and rename a bunch of functions it's still a copy of the older one.
So if you trigger the first one the others are also triggerd and this brings the loop.
The only solution for me now is to rename copys one by one to made them separet functions.
It seems that it works now. 
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