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Mapping Help
This is the place to ask about mapping problems, techniques, and bug fixing, and pretty much anything else you want to do in the level editor.

For questions about coding, check out the Coding Help thread:
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W_LoadWadFile: Couldn't Load Gfx.wad 
HeWhoWishesNotToBeNamed (that's a lie, actually) gets the error message W_LoadWadFile: couldn't load gfx.wad from FitzQuake after using Tigger-oN's compile.bat to compile the map, move it into the appropriate dir, and load it. I don't really have any more details, but apparently if he just runs FitzQuake after the .bat is through running, and loads the map then, everything is fine. 
^^ I'm With Him 
yeah what he said... it really torques my ass crack 
This is a problem with quake in general, when running from a batch file. The problem is that the working directory is wrong. To illustrate, this doesn't work:

cd \

but this does:

cd games\quake
Couldn't You Do... 

cd \

Surely that would work? 
Thanks, metlslime. With that information Dietz should be able to get everything working 100% now.

bascule: Try it. I just did. I get the same error message that Dietz gets. 
that's the thing i said didn't work. 
Wow I've Been Needing Lots Of Help Lately 
Okay, so in Q1 I want this key door to play doors/baseuse.wav when the player has the key and touches it. When "sounds" is set to "2" on the door, baseuse.wav does not play; however, when it's set to "5" baseuse.wav does play. Of course, it also complains about the sound files not being precached because there is no corresponding set of .wavs for that sounds number.

If I play some trickery on Quake and set "noise1" to "doors/baseuse.wav" and "noise2" to "misc/null.wav" then the sound plays, but only after the door has stopped moving. This feels odd and is not the desired effect.

Any ideas on how to get this working how I want? 
There's A Bug... 
in the id progs.dat where it tries to play both the door open sound AND the door unlock sound on the same channel, thereby cancelling one out.

If you don't want do include new progs.dat, try this hack: make another func_door hidden in the wall or something, and have it open at the same time. the locked door will play the unlock sound, and the hidden door will play the open sound. 
Thanks to metlslime and czg for helping me out with this. If any of you want the solution, here is the info:

"classname" "func_door"
"sounds" "5"
"noise2" "misc/null.wav"
"noise1" "misc/null.wav"
"angle" "270"
"target" "goldkeydoor"
"wait" "-1"
"spawnflags" "8"

"classname" "info_notnull"
"use" "train_wait"
"sounds" "1"
"noise" "doors/baseuse.wav"
"wait" "-1"
"targetname" "goldkeydoor"

This creates a func_door that requires the goldkey, and plays no sounds when opened. It targets the info_notnull which plays the baseuse.wav. 
Sadomasochistic Behaviour 
<czg> RPG, you could just have set the doors "sounds" to 0, then you don't have to set the noise fields yourself

Yes. So, if "sounds" "0" is used in the func_door, then you don't need to set the "noise1" or "noise2".

Just an FYI if anyone here is trying to use this. 
cool, thanks. That is very helpful! No im not being sarcastic :) 
Do func_trains in Q1 not like "wait" values that are decimals? It doesn't wait at a path_corner when I set "wait" to ".25". 
Begs The Question... 
Why would you want it to wait .25 instead of 1? :) 
Because I have three func_trains. They all move together at 64 units/second to form a single structure. I want one of the trains to pause while the other two trains move 16 units in opposite directions, and then I want them to all start moving again in sync.

d/r = t. 16/64 = .25 seconds to pause.

And since the trains move about 384 units before coming to this spot, I don't want all of them to move at 16 units/second because then the player would have time to shit, shower, shave, and do whatever else they wanted before the train got to the final destination. 
"because then the player would have time to shit, shower, shave, and do whatever else they wanted before the train got to the final destination." 
I set "wait" "1.5" and it actually waited one and a half seconds at the path_corner. I still want to know why "wait" ".25" (or "0.25" for that matter) doesn't work on func_trains. 
Try using 0.2. Just for a laff. 
does the q1 entity/whatever file gtkrad uses have 'wait' as an integer value? if so, maybe its getting sliced to 0 somehow? probably not, but worth checking out i guess. (more likely a quake thing though) 

Partly influenced by Kell, partly influenced by SPoG, and partly on a lark, I set "wait" ".5" and it waits the perfect amount of time and everything is in sync. This makes no sense to me, because the main bit is only supposed to wait while the other two bits move 16 units at 64 units/second. Unless all trains automatically pause 0.25 seconds at each path_corner, this is beyond my comprehension.

But hey, it works. I'm happy. Sort of. Now I don't have an excuse for czg as to why I haven't released the map. 
release the map!

make sure its hard though :D 
If a wait is set for the corner, the train will wait for exactly� that time. If the wait is not set, or the wait is zero (they're the same thing), it'll wait for 0.1 seconds.

�: I think. check sv_phys.c in the engine. 
Thanks, Nb 
Texture Alignment 
Can anybody who's using TreeQBSP or WQBSP please clarify when you use the options "-oldaxis" or "-alternateaxis" for correct texture alignment of 45 degree brushes?

It's my impression that people who are using WorldCraft must use one of these options all the time although compiler documentation tells the opposite. What gives? 
download valve hammer and use dubsp, it makes texturing and aligning SO MUCH EASIER! :) 
I use QERadiant and always use -oldaxis or -alternatexis. I remember from the time that I was helping Killjoy finish KJSP1 that if he used -alternateaxis on WQBSP that the texture alignment was off. He was using WC1.6. 
It's -alternateaxis 
All Quake textures are aligned to the nearest of the xy, yz, or xz planes. However, WC gets confused with 45� angles and sometimes aligns the tex along the wrong plane.

I'm not sure I've explained that correctly, but all you need is -alternateaxis to make stuff line up. 
WC gets confused with 45� angles

Oh gods, I remember that :/ IIRC though, it only happens on one plane - so if you have a pyramid whos sides slope at 45 degrees, two flanks will look right, two won't. Or something. 
In That Case... 
Cant you just simply rotate it 90 degrees? 
Thanks For The 
input. If I understand correctly, normally (except in the case RPG mentioned) these options should be used to get [45 degree] textures to align properly.

Then, why are these options there? In what case is the (new?) default texture axis handling better? Is there an editor where the default axis handling makes sense?

The "old" (or "alternate") axis handling is the same as in TxQBSP (which only has one variant) and also the same as in the original qbsp from iD.

Why are there repeated claims that this "old" axis handling is invalid for WorldCraft? It really doesn't make sense.

I've tested on several WorldCraft maps and they all get correct texture alignment only if I use the options above (with Tree/WQBSP). Using TxQBSP it's always right.

Another funny thing is when using YQBSP (Yahn Bernier's), there is yet another option "-alt45" which works completely opposite of the "-alternateaxis" option in WQBSP. I.e. running without this option seems to work great for WorldCraft maps. Confusing to say the least ...

It appears to me that I should consider removing the "-oldaxis" option from TreeQBSP and make it default instead. Would that be wise? 
Triggering Lots Of Monsters 
If I trigger 12-15 monsters and have them "wake up" at the same time, will this cause choking or any other sort of problems for the engine? 
Wake-up Call... 
afaik, from my own sp doodlings, if the number of monsters and the detail/r_speeds of the area in which they are encountered do not cause Quake to grind, scrape or choke then having them simultaneously alerted won't either. 
Hi everyone, I'm back from a trip abroad & getting back into mapping. Apologies to those who have not received replies to emails. In answer to the general thrust of most of them(ie where the fuck are my maps?) I am pleased to say that the castle map I showed screenies of over a year ago is very nearly finished :)

However, I am getting compiling problems, in particular tyrlite is refusing to run with the message: "Texture Axis Perpendicular to Face".

To fix this I need to select all brush faces containing a certain texture & reset the coordinates (the error seems to be caused by screwy stretch numbers). My problem at present is that when using Shift-A with the texture selected rather than select all the [i]faces[/i] with that texture GTKRadiant selects all the [i]brushes[/i] where one or more faces have the texture therefore selecting many faces with textures other than the one I am interested in. This doesn't sound too serious but I have over 6000 brushes and a good percentage of them seem to have this particular texture on one or more faces. Does anyone know a way of just selecting all the faces (rather than brushes) in this way? Can Worldcraft or a different version of GTK do this (I'm using 1.2.11)? Thanks. 
W00t! Nice to hear from you, dude. I'm VERY glad you haven't dropped out completely, and I'm really looking forward to your map!

Because I don't know the exact details, I'm not sure that this will help. If you're using the same stretch numbers for all the surfaces, you could use find/replace in a text editor. Obviously, if you used a unique stretch value for each surface, this will be too much effort. But if you only used 5-10 numbers, then it will only take a few seconds to find/replace all the values.

Hopefully that made sense. 
The problem face may look something like this:

...gnosis_full/rtnick2d_wet 0 0 0 1001.99999 1.000000 0 0 0

Whereas almost all the others will have a stretch of 1.000000 but with many different coordinates/angles eg.

...gnosis_full/rtnick2d_wet 0 -64 27 1.00000 1.000000 0 0 0

I use editpad as a text editor & I'm not sure how I could do this as a find/replace. Is it possible using wildcards?

I wouldn't mind turning every instance of that texture into:

...gnosis_full/rtnick2d_wet 0 0 0 1.00000 1.000000 0 0 0

but how do I select all the variations in the first place? 
Nice To Hear From You Glassman 
good luck sorting out the problems. 
Thanks UWF & RPG 
& I've sorted this one for now using MS Word no less. 
Yo Glassman 
glad to hear your back, good news indeed for Q1SP, its kinda died recently and we need a boost! :) 
Thread Jumping 
I figured out how to turn 4 meshes into that bow shape pretty fast, but working with patch meshes is bringing it's own problems. For one thing, it's not casting shadows. The other problem is that in game there is a crack on the inside edge between the bottom mesh and the inside mesh, even though they're perfectly flush in editor. In fact, the bottom mesh is a clone of the top mesh, which is perfectly flush in game. 
compile with -patchshadows 
not really a mapping help, but how the hell do i get a mod song to work with quake maps? does it requier a to get it all into a pak file and some quakeC stuff? is this really posible?? aliens are horny bastads?? aaa!!? 
,,, , 
sorry for the typos. im in a euphoria state right now. cant keep calm! YAY! 
Unfortunately, only a few Quake engines can play mod files. For those, I believe you add a key called "mod" to the worldspawn entity (that thing where the map name goes.)

Nehahra seems to have its .mods in a subfolder called sound\mods, or something like that. Basically, check the engine documentation.

Unfortunately, QuakeC just can't do it. Sorry. 
keep in mind nehara's mod playing capabilities have limits. they don't support a lot of the cool new impulse tracker stuff. i think it's closest resembles scream tracker mods... but i'm not sure. i only experimented with it for a short while and got annoyed and gave up. 
ah man. thats not good. i know nothing of coding or well, dont really wanna use a new engine or stuff. but anyway. thanks for the help. :)

me goes and cries happily ever after 
Gtkradiant Spawnflag Check Boxes 
I maybe missing something obvious but the GTKRadiant entity popup box doesn't seem to have the check boxes for !hard, !normal and !easy (or boxes for ctf/dm/TA etc for that matter). How do I get these to show?

If I can't am I correct in thinking that I add 256, 512 & 1024 to the spawnflags for !easy, !normal, !hard respectively & add those figures together for combinations. Is it the same numbers for all entities?

when i map for quake in there, i wrote down all the numbers for each combination of skill levels in a grid so i can easily just look without having to calculate anything.

although, that's probably not feasible if you're going to have more than just four flags (e,m,h,DM) because there'd be so many combinations... 
There's a version of GtkRadiant that supports Q1 (albeit badly). SmallPileofGibs also says that the entities.def has the skill setting checkboxes, so you may want to download it and rip the entities.def if nothing else. 
I believe vanilla gtkradiant doesn't support flags that go so high. What I did was calculate all the common combinations of the flags, and then list that in all the relevant sections in the .def file. You have to add those manually to the other flags though. 
Thanks Guys 
Necros..for this map that may well be the solution.

RPG..the entities.def (which btw ends up in your id1/scripts directory) does not work with vanilla gtkrad presumably because, as pushplay says, vanilla gtkrad does not support spawnflags higher than about 128.

However the new q1 version of gtkrad looks interesting. The skill settings work anyway :)

It creates maps in native q1 format so no more converting q2->q1 & the bsp options refer to hqbsp, hvis & hlight which I'm not familiar with. Textures I think go in id1/textures but I'm not sure if anything other than jpg & tga are supported at this stage. If anyone has any more info I'd be grateful. 
If you want more info on Q1 GtkR then you'll have to come onto #terrafusion (or #qeradiant) and ask SmallPileofGibs. I haven't tried it yet so this is all just stuff I've heard people say. 
My Sm48 Map 
Was made in the q1beta of gtkrad.

It works fine, its just that the editor needs to be able to load wad files, atm u have to type the name of the textxure onto the brush :/ 
Is The Functionality The Same? 
does it work the same way (besides textures) that the regular gtkr does?

what do you mean by type the name of the texture onto the brush 
type the name of the texture onto the brush

Ewww. I'll stick to the texture extraction + map conversion method like I did in my sm48. The map sucked, but at least it had a good solid dome. 
I Mean 
currently when you start a map from scratch you have to select the brush/face and bring up its properties, then in the texture box you have to type in the name of the texture you want that brush/face to use.

After you have done that the texture appears on the brush and in the texture window. So basicly you need to do this every time you add a new texture. 
Unreal 2 Textures Converter 
any1 knows of unreal2 textures -> simple bitmap cconverter that handles multipy files 
Found it. Pretty good explorer/converter that supports many games : 
treebsp doesn't like aligning textures right. Is there any way to avoid this problem? 
Check Out The 
previous posts in this thread (#429 and forward) and see if that helps. Otherwise I need more details (editor, compiler options etc).

You could also try my TxQBSP version, it's very similar to TreeQBSP in performance, capacity etc. 
thanx, that's exactly my case.
I just use WC and compile without those options.

I just haven't seen those posts, cuz wasn't able to visit func for 2 months and then there were TOO many new posts to read them all. 
i know its not really a mapping help, but i need help so i can do some mapping.

anyway. quiver!! the quake1 map editor... does anyone know where i can get a working link? the official site has it down. wrote the dude 2 weeks ago and nothing!! :(

agh. i wanna make maps using my macky. :) 
Hurrah For Mac Quakers! 
Yes yes, I am using Quiver at this very moment.... I thought I was the only person on the planet who still did. ;0

Scott Kevill definitely does not give a rat's ass about Quiver anymore, I'm sure he does not have it. I have it of course, but no place to upload it to.

Also, If you have Mac OS X, it is possible to compile GTKRadiant, but that is not for the faint of heart (It runs as an X11 app using Apple's X11, XDarwin, and Fink). read the mailinglists on for more info on that. 
Yay! Mac Rules! 
GTK radiant? agh. i dotn wanna learn a new editor. hehe. damn.

i ahve os x, but its 10.0.4 or something. the first version i think. hehe. damn. i hate apple for making us buy jaguar!! :)

hmm... if i give you the link to an account at, would you upload it for me if its below 5mb? :) man. im desperate. i'd do anything!! (except gay stuff, thats just.... gay)

hehehe. damn. 
Softer Shadows In Q1 
If you've been annoyed with the jagged edges in some shadows in Q1, you might want to take a look at my latest Light 1.23 version available at .

There are several new options for various speed/quality combinations. 
Will you be adding support for coloured lighting/.lit files to your light prog at all ? 
whoa aquirRe, you appear to the 'teh r4wk'... i can't wait to try out your light prog, especially the -extra4 you mentioned 
Those Tools Sound Great 
Thanks AguiRe. 
Thanks Guys, I Hope 
you won't be disappointed.

Abyss: No current plans on coloured lighting. 
I Wasn't Disappointed 
it really made an improvement, i ended up with some very smooth edges, will carry on using this i think, it coped with the tyrlite parameters very well 
the new light util is very cool, just been playing with it, makes those shadows look so much nicer.

Recommended to any q1 mapper :) 
Firstly, "Abyss: No current plans on coloured lighting." :(

Secondly, Is there any problems with say compiling with tyrlite, for coloured lighting/generating the .lit file, then compiling using your light prog for the new features -extra4, -soft etc?

I have tried it on a small test map, all seems to be fine, and in the end I get my coloured lighting. 
Hmm ... 
As long as TyrLite doesn't change the entity contents in a way that information is lost it should work fine, I think. Normally it doesn't.

TyrLite will then first generate both the .lit file and the normal light data lump in the bsp, then my Light would make a 2nd pass generating another light data lump in the bsp replacing the previous one.

It seems like a good idea, Abyss! 
The Down Side, Of Course 
is lighting a map twice. and if the lighting process takes a few hours or more... *shrug* 
Time, I Am Not Short Of 
Talent, however, is another matter 
.lit files are not light data, but the offset.
If you change the lightmaps in a bsp, you end in the colored hell.

aguirRe : great features. Been wanting fast and more sunlight for all these years

havent found in readme, does it support negative lights (antilights) 
No Antilights 
in this version, maybe later.

If you like the new soft shadows, try them together with the enhanced sunlight ("-sunlight2"). It benefits especially since the sun shadows are so clearly defined and therefore normally suffers from aliasing (the jagged edges). 
Light Prog 
The people demand screenshots that show off l33t enw features. 
Better Than Screenshots 
Get the Light 1.23 version, grab any Q1 bsp that has outdoor areas and run the following command in a console window :

light -fast -soft -extra4 -nolight -light 30 -sunlight 250 -sunmangle 45,-60 -sunlight2 60 bspname

where "bspname" is the name of the map.

Then load up the produced bsp in a Q1 engine and check out how the ligthing looks in the outdoor areas (indoors will be rather dark since all light entities are disabled).

You can tweak the parameters above for different effects. 
Have Not Tried It Yet, But.... 
This appears to be some cool stuff. Outdoor areas that seem to have a (somewhat?) simulated radiosity effect without the complication (or time apparently) of actually doing any radiocity calculations). AND even better yet, you can use a worldspawn light ent to cover the inside bits while leting the 2 sunlight sources deal with the outside shadow fade off.

/Spending tomorrow playing around with this 
you rock!

i'm using your utils to finish my qsp now :)

lots of nice features and tyrlite ents support makes it uber great! 
Thanks Again For 
the accolades, partial credit goes to Tyrann for the TyrLite features that I've included.

I'm eager to see what you guys can come up with using these tools. Just let me know if you have any problems or if there's something unclear in the readmes (they're a bit spartan).

Running the tools without parameters prints out helpful info and default values etc. This info is also logged to file if your console window is too small.

Please also note the ability in Light to quickly test various options from the command line without having to rebuild the map.

Finally when satisfied, put these keys/values (even range/dist) into worldspawn for future reference. 
Lighting... Quake... & Resolution 
Screen resolution does effect the lighting effect. What is the typical resolution set by players around here? 800x640? Higher? 
Is what I use 
Screen resolution does effect the lighting effect.

Really? What do you mean? Resolution when playing? Compiling? What is "the lighting effect?" 
I wasn't very clear was I.

Say I'm using Tyr-quake in full windowed mode at a resolution of 320x200. I set up the brightness and gamma so the original quake skill and episode select foyers look 1337. Now, I pull down the console and load map Orkan and when I enter the map I can't see two virtual feet in front of me. Next, I up the resolution to 1024x768 and suddenly Orkan looks cool in all it's atmospheric glory. There's now enough light to see gross and fine architecture, and texture detailing is now apparent (where before it all just looked like various shades of black). It seems that the higher the resolution, the more effect light entities have (I know this is the wrong way to put it but I also hope you know what I mean =) at least for software and winquake.

The problem then, involves the four levels I'm currently working on. If I set the lighting up so that it looks good at 320x200, it becomes "flooded" with light at 1024x768 (bland stuff). So I reason that if I can discover what is the most commonly used resolution for play, I won't go too far wrong with the lighting if I use that as the benchmark resolution for testing light placement and effect on a given level.

That's why I thought the question was relevant to the mapping help thread. 
is it possible to make lavalight?
i mean the light that generates by lava surface as it generates by sky, but with delay. 
It shouldn't make a diffence.

If "full windowed mode" is not fullscreen mode, then desktop background colour can affect your perception of the brightness. Otherwise... that sounds wierd. 
what tyrann said.

Fullscreen at any resolution, lighting looks the same. Windowed with a bright wallpaper, it looks too dark. 

It shouldn't make a diffence.

It does on my sys.

Fullscreen at any resolution, lighting looks the same.

Not on my sys.

...and that's probably the problem, my clapped out sys.

Now, if I hadn't just put that new bass on lay-by... 
here's a thought: take screenshots at different resolutions. Carefully examine the screenshots, especaially by zooming in. See if you still notice a difference.

Or if you don't trust that, zip them up and mail them to someone else. 
I guess lava light should be possible using a similar technique, but I doubt the extra coding and processing time would be worth the effect.

Lava is relatively scarce in maps (I'm not so fond of it either) and the lava light would be rather local and diffuse. That makes it very different from sunlight which is more difficult to simulate with point lights.

Hrimfaxi actually had the same suggestion a while ago. He also wanted the lava light to be slowly pulsating. 
Re: Lava Light 
Sounds like surface-based radiosity lighting... 
but that wouldnt work with these tools unfortunately 
ok, will put light entities all over the lavapool then ;) 
Light 1.23 
I tried the new light utility on a map which was made originally using tyrlite. I found that all the point lights are too bright but the outdoor sun areas are too dark.

Do you know if the scaling of 'light', 'wait', 'delay' & '_sunlight' is different to tyrlite? 
i didn't notice any change in light after switching from tyrlite to bengt's light 
Thats strange. Do you use wait and/or delay on your lights?

I notice that aguirRe gives an example above for _sunlight 250. That would be like Marrakech at midday in Tyrlite. I'm not sure if thats the intention or the scaling is different. 
The scaling is supposed to be the same for all individual light entities AFAIK. However, I have default a slightly different behaviour for global light levels (min/max/sunlight) regarding the "-range" option. They're default not affected by the "-range" option while in TyrLite they are affected.

In version 1.23 I added a "-globrange" option to make it easier to switch between the tools if you prefer this behaviour.

All this is of course only relevant if you actually are using the "-range" option. Are you?

Otherwise I don't really know what's up. I haven't noticed any obvious difference in light intensity between the tools and I've run a lot of maps through them.

If you like, you could send me the zipped map+wad (I'll rebuild it myself) and I'll take a look at it. 
Thanks aguiRe. I haven't used -range.

I'll try it one more time tonight & then send it to you if its still the same. The only thing I can think of atm is that I relit an existing bsp with v1.23 rather than doing a new complete compile but that shouldn't make a difference should it? 
That Shouldn't Make 
a difference AFAIK, that is exactly what I've done with many maps. Unless of course you've somehow manipulated the entity data after (or during) the TyrLite run.

I think there is a "-compress" option in TyrLite that removes light information after usage in order to shrink the entity data size.

Can you run TyrLite once again on the same bsp and get the same result as before (copy the bsp somewhere else beforehand)? 
I've Used 
AguirRe's light tool for about a month and to me there's no difference from Tyrlite, when using delay, wait etc.! But the sunlight/sunlight2 is so much better, not to mention the new soft shadows. 
aguiRe, you e-mailed me a while ago about testing your light proggie, didn't you? I never tested it. Sorry dude. :( 
No Problem 
I thought my email server swallowed a couple of replies - it's acting strangely sometimes ...

I hope there are no serious bugs, if not Glassman has found something. 
Yes, I do use -compress in tyrlite so that probably caused it. /me is a dunce.

I'm running a fresh compile now with v1.23 -fast -soft -extra4 so I'll let you know the outcome as soon as its finished. 
Worked fine this time & looks very nice :) Sorry for the confusion. 
I don't think you'll need the compress option anymore since the tools have pretty high capacity now.

Vis and light data can be up to 4MB each, entity data up to 1MB and the rest have practically no limits (in the tools that is, engines might object). 
You can use dulight for surface lights.
It does no bounced light tho, but combines surface lights with the tyrlite 
but it's too late :) i put lite ents everywhere :) 
Q1bsp Error 
Found some strange errors on my Binair Space Partitions lateley.
After starting the game - failure
Error:ED_Alloc:no free edicts

Should I have used too many entities? 
There's never an edict around when you need one. 
I Pardon, Beg You? 
Give me another answer, & I forget the question. 
I'm an asshole, ignore me. 
You have probably exceeded the edicts limit which is 600 in theory but you can only have about 580 or so before you get this error.

Edicts are all the stuff in the level..brush models, ammo, monsters, sounds etc but not lights. Take some out & then, when you can load the map type 'edictcount' at the console & it will tell you how many you have.

Some entities use up lots of edicts like air_bubbles which strangely uses about 10.

If you type 'edicts' at the console you will get a very long list of all of them with their properties. 
On Edicts... 
quake usually needs about 40 to 60 free edicts for use with nails, rockets, grenades plus monster's weapons (voreballs, scrag shots, etc)

you'd be best keeping the edicts below even 580, like 550 to be safe, because at 580, the player might just get a crash. 
And Remember... 
...lights with targetnames count as edicts. 
i believe func_illusionaries do not count. 
Greatly ! 
Thanks for the reply.

I already had the feeling I crossed a limit, by expanding the levels for my convertion.
It would spoil some hard work, crashing on the fourth or fifth level, and still 20 to go.

Gives a good feeling, playing the good old Quake again! 
crashing on the fourth or fifth level
um... maybe i just misunderstood, but just to be safe:
the six hundred edicts is per level... 
A Count Off 
Well, let's have a try than...
Just an ordinairy level shows:

num_edicts : 373
active : 373
vieuw : 253
touch : 326
step : 109

I know I can count to three, as well as to 600.
But does this mean 373, or the whole lot? 
the one you want to look at is active or num_edicts.

the others... i don't really know what they are. 
I noticed your sm31_speedy map and I was wondering what light tool (version and especially parameters if you recall that) you used to build that? 
question is: have you seen the map (original sm31, or some later version, or just screenshots ?)

its tyrlite and delay 2 lights

I guess you could decompile it and look yourself :) 
#492 Posted By Distrans 
Orkan is a bit hard to see, since the textures are very dark and contrast themselves. 
I have the original sm31_pack (I think), are there more than one?

I've tried to re-light that bsp with TyrLite and my Light but I can't seem to get it like it was originally. AFAIK, you can't get this information from decompilation, it's all in the entity data plus invisible command line options.

Thanks, I'll try the -delay 2 and see how that goes. 
It Didn't Work, 
the lighting is way darker than the original. Also, I get an error about missing models which makes TyrLite abort. In my Light I've changed those into warnings but the lighting is still too dark using -dist 2.

What gives? Have you somehow manipulated the entity data after using TyrLite (e.g. with its "-compress" option)?

Wait a minute, I just noticed that you wrote "delay 2" and I mistakenly interpreted that as "-dist 2". What do you mean, can the delay be controlled from the command line? Isn't that just a key for each light entity? 
Delay... set to each light entity individually, like brightness (only not essential). In tyrlite it effects the attenuation, and a value of 2 sets the falloff to inverse distance^2 for the light entity it's assigned to 
about dealy xen said it all..

probably it was lit with old tyrelight with -nominlimit option, which actually made light 2x brighter
I can give you the .map if you want
Why do you care anyway ? 
Thanks For The 
info and yes, I'd like the zipped map if possible.

The reason why I care is partly that I find the map fun to play, but more important is that I'm trying to learn more about how different maps are lit and how the "-range" and "-dist" parameters affect lighting in general.

And this map consistently resisted in revealing how it was actually lit up originally. Most maps are easy to find the right combination of parameters (if any at all).

Have you any idea why the model error occurs when trying to re-light the bsp? 
Speedy, You Were Right 
about using TyrLite 0.8 with the "-nominlimit" bug. When retrying with that version and that option I immediately hit the spot with the same light distribution pattern.

Xen also reported on QMap having this problem with his xnq1002 map.

Old bugs die hard ... and there's still no explanation of the missing brush models. 
I've Just Had The Strangest Crash... 
using fitzquake075.
testing out a map. map title shows, then:
got a NaN velocity on monster_shalrath
*crash* to desktop.
GLquake just crashes.

(software iterations load the map fine though)
looked for missing shalraths (vores) didn't find any.

since the only engine to actually tell me anything before crashing is fitzquake, hopefully metl might know something about it? 
is fitzquake also the only engine that crashes? 
i need to read more carefully.

better question: does this happen consistently? 
It Happens Only On This Map. 
i'm looking into all the vores on the map, but i don't really see anything out of the ordinary with them. 
it happens ALL the time. like i said, software works, but it seems all gl engines crash.
(i only tested with fq, glquake and tq) but it screws up the mouse acceleration and i stopped testing gl engines because it was pissing me off. 
okay, does it happen when the map loads, or during gameplay?

Care to send me the bsp? 
It Happens: 
when i lauched the map from the command like with +mapname, the game loads fine, and almost right after the map's title is printed on the console, i get got a NaN velocity on monster_shalrath then the game seems to continue loading for a few more seconds then crashes to the desktop.
i'll email you the current compile. 
Something Interesting... 
Metl, you mentioned in your email that winquake crashes as well.

i used tronyn's winquake and it didn't crash (which is why i assumed that regular winquake would work).

so tronyn, what makes your engine so special? :) 
You Probably Mean Tyranns' Winquake 
& one difference is that the max edict count is increased. 
Er, Yeah. 
sorry Tronyn.
working on the same project + having similar names = bad for necros' memory 
Latest GTKRadiant 1.3.12 
Has anyone got this to work for Quake editing? 
I Don't Have It. 
but you make it sound like it's more difficult in this version. i was planning to get it a little later, so info would be appreciated... 
I got it working, long story, but it will basically only run once on my machine, the next time I go to start it, it will crash with a windows error "GTKRadiant exe has caused an error.......................and will have to close bla bla bla" you know the one. And basically the only way I can run it again is by clearing the registry when the option is there, but then the second time I start it, its the same thing (Groundhog Day) It happens whether or not I load it for Quake, Quake II or Quake III, so I guess that rules out it being a prob just with trying to edit for Quake. I also tried uninstalling my previous version of GTK, but that didn't help any. So after many installs/uninstalls, I decided to go back to the previous version of GTK. Probably something on my machine it doesn't like, Oh well, I'll try again next release.

Give it a go, you may have better luck 
It Works Fine On This Machine... 
...except for the clipping bug and annoyances with the surface inspector. 
i'd been scrolling up and down on this page and cant find it, so yeah..

...where can i find some updated qbsp3, qvis3 and qrad3 files for quake2?

thats it. 
Here Nakasuhito 
thanks dude. i'd kiss you, but i think i have aids 
Lucky For Me Uh? 
Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Si Do 
yeah... you lucky mathafaka :)

anyway. thanks again for the link. hehe. me is happy. 
ok, q3 mapping for people who are unfamiliar with id's tech advances since the days of q1?
do and don't, baby's first vertical atrium of death, gtkradiant for complete fuckwits, that sort of thing...

I'm asking here because I don't wanna wade through the muck searching for the juicy stuff,hook me up. 
I fight int'l terrorism by not spacing my sentences. Apparently. 
All I can say is: Good luck. I've been mapping for Q1 using QERadiant, so I have a slight advantage, but when I recently started Q3 mapping again I couldn't find anything useful, and no one wanted to help me. 
people suck, mappers doubly so. 
Agreed. But don't Maj I said that, mmkay? 

bleh. As you said, mappers suck doubly so. 
My That Was Horrible 
-Maj +tell

Triple suckage? 
you suck at the intarweb 
On A Totally Unrelated Note 
suppose you are a programmer. suppose you wake up screaming in the middle of the night, sheats soaking with cold sweat. suppose you walk out into the kitchen, all shivering. suppose you quickly hop back into your bedrom to put some pajama bottoms on, there's a whole bunch of level monkeys watching you via an internet forum for crying out loud, save the children!
suppose you stand there in the dark, with just one singular thought running through your head.

"I have to make the best level editor known to man, if but some level monkey would take mercy and tell me how it should be designed."

Any takers? No?

and by make, I mean code. 
The two most difficult things are: how do you best represent what is essentially a 3D environment in two dimensions, and then how do you modify a 3D environment with a 2D interface? Radiant does the best job of it so far, but I don't believe for a second that we can't do better.

I would be interested in seeing some interface that does away with the keybaord entirely and uses two mice at once. Have the 3D view fill the screen and put it all in radial context menus. 
In A Bit More Detail 
Suppose you associated the right mouse with X/Y movement and the left mouse with Z. The camera stays centered on a point in space you move around. When you hold down the right mouse middle button the right mouse allows you to rotate the camera around the point and the left mouse lets you determine how close to that point the camera is. The left mouse right button could open a context menu letting you set things like grid size and sensitivity. The right mouse right button would cover things like setting textures and properties. One of the mouse wheels would have to cover rotating through which brush you're selecting when the point in space intersects more than one. I imagine both left buttons would be used for creating and manipulating brushes.

That's just off the top of my head. There would no doubt be necessary features I've left off. 
Yes Please! 
I have the new version of GTK working fine with Quake, and have found out what I beleive to be causing the problems I have been having with that version of GTK. Basically when GTK 1.3.12 starts up the entity browser has 2 of the 3 main windows collapsed/closed (1 a list of the entities, the next a description plus the keys etc, and the next the values that you entered etc) if I adjust it by slidding down the separator bars so as I can see the other 2, and shut GTK down with the entity browser like that, the next time I start it it will crash, and I will have to reset the registry, then set up my preferences again. But if before I shut down GTK, I put the separator bars back how they were, there is no problem. At least I know how to avoid it now. 
...except for the clipping bug and annoyances with the surface inspector.

Care to expand? I haven't noticed anything yet. 
if but some level monkey would take mercy and tell me how it should be designed.

Congratulations, you've just made Worldcraft.

PS: RPG, you fool, I love you. 
congratulations, you have just jumped to the wrong conclusion. 
I win. 
if by win, you mean something else entirely - then maybe. 
When I use the clipping tool, sometimes the 3D view doesn't display which part of the brush it's going to keep after the clipping operation is complete. I have to update the 3D view somehow (like move the camera) and then it will display it.

Also, I used to be able to copy and paste a texture name into the surface inspector window and change a surface's texture that way. Now I can paste it, but when I click "apply" it just reverts back to the old texture name. This is frustrating, because sometimes I spend a lot of time scaling, rotating, and shifting a texture to make it look right, but then I want to try a different texture to see how it looks. 
Gtkradiant Again 
so, it's supposed to be really, really sluggish - right? I'm not on a monster system or anything, but with a ti500 and 640 mb ram, it shouldn't go completely aquanox on me just because I have one fucking brush out there. panning and moving around in the 3d viewport is right up there with pounding nails through my cock. 
Sluggish ?? 
No, can't say I've experienced that, and thankfully, nor have I experienced your eloquent description of what moving around in the 3D veiwport is like :)

Your Fired !! 
Oh i see, I haven't had that clipping prob. Don't beleive I have ever done that with the surface inspector, so I would't come across that.
Sluggish Pt2 
You are of course right clicking your mouse in the 3D view, so as you can use 'mouse look' type thingy? (you will get a crosshair in view)It can give a 'sluggish' type effect if you just use your arrow keys to move around there without first right clicking. 
I'm right clicking, yeah. 
also, I'm the head of human resources here, I say who's fired and who's not. Comprende? 
O Rly? 
you got a problem son? take it up with mr. pink slip.

two words for you, government cheese! 
Radiant Was Sluggish For Me 
before I spent my last cash to upgrade from a tnt to a geforce!

maybe it's just allergic to people pressing the wrong keys that have been inprinted in their brain from playing around with an ogier too much. 
could be. or to people fucking tail pipes. 
To make a good map ed, just let it export 3d max scenes. All in-house tool should have is convinient entity editor and visual scripting 
I vaguely remember Radiant having a little OpenGL info in the about box. Check it's not using MS or SGI (i.e. software) OpenGL.

Aside: Since when did Radiant need a 34-fucking-meg installer! 
nope, that's not it.

re: Aside.
maybe its got spyware? 
Can't even get it running here. Bombs out with various gl errors. SPoG hates me :[ 
I S4wk 
For some bizarre reason my desktop was set to 16bpp. 32bpp fixes it.

It turns out that if you take the error message - radiant.x86:28928): GtkGLExt-CRITICAL **: file gtkglwidget.c: line 225 (gtk_widget_set_gl_capability): assertion `GDK_IS_GL_CONFIG (glconfig)' failed - and translate it into greek, then latvian, then spanish, it becomes GtkGLExt el molto bello you're in 16bpp you spack GDK_EL_LA_GL_CONFIG 
Compilers & A Texture Question 
Just curious if anyone has released newer versions of the standard argh serise of compilers for q1+2 or something completely different?

Also I am trying to convert a modified texture for q1 (its a .bmp) into the .mip format. Any help here would be appreciated. (I have mipdip, but it doesnt seem to support the conversion) 
I didnt think wally worked for q1 textures. 
Yeah It Does 
it does a pretty good job, but i'd recommend TexMex over it for what you want to do 
I am downlaoding it now thanks for the advice! 
good compilers are here: 
Thanks Necros...btw 
I was reading some stuff on this board and came across a post you had made about replacing a single texture without recompiling the map. Did texmex work for this? If not there is a utility you can get off "the forge" called updbsp. Its DOS based but does the job.

Ohh one more thing, those utils look like they were made for QuArK will they work with WC also? 
Thanks Necros...btw 
I was reading some stuff on this board and came across a post you had made about replacing a single texture without recompiling the map. Did texmex work for this? If not there is a utility you can get off "the forge" called updbsp. Its DOS based but does the job.

Ohh one more thing, those utils look like they were made for QuArK will they work with WC also? 
Spawning Health Or Ammo In Q1 Maps 
I wish to restock players as they fight by dropping in supplies as needed. Do I have to build special hidden structures with gates to drop stuff in (using appropriate triggers) or is there a more elegant way? 
In normal Q1, no. With QuakeC, there's Ritual's func_spawn entity. 
Hey Scraggy... 
If that's for hhouse... bad luck, but if it's for the larger project, I'd be up for including that bit of code in the bundle... what do you think? 
Func_spawn Entity 
If this code can be put in the halloween bundle, that would be great but time is really tight. I'll do some mechanical things for the time being but I would prefer the elegance of straight spawning in. I would need to know the syntax of func_spawn. I would use counters adding up monster deaths to trigger fresh supplies. 
/*QUAKED func_spawn (0 .5 .8) (-32 -32 -24) (32 32 64) big/ambush megahealth
This will spawn a thing upon being used. The thing that
is spawned depends upon the value of "spawnfunction".
"spawnclassname" should contain the same value as "spawnfunction".
If "spawnfunction" is unspecified a random monster is chosen.
The angles, target and all flags are passed on
Think of it like setting up a normal entity.
"spawnsilent" set this to 1 if you want a silent spawn.
"spawnmulti" set this to 1 if you want this spawn to be reoccuring.
All the tools at are usable with any Q1 editor, specifically WC1.6. With the ConvMap tool, you can also convert from Q2 format into Q1, which can be useful when editing in a newer, non-Q1 editor (e.g. GtkRadiant).

The mentioning of QuArK is only to hint that the tools can handle float/ETP maps as well as standard Q1 maps. 
Q3, Map Editors 
are there any other ones currently in development? or are humanity bound to forever toiling in the *radiant-muck, like so many jews in Egypt? 
I believe that QuArK and Quest both support Q3.

There's also 
GTK Rules !! 
Sorry to hear you haven't had a good time of it, and resolved your probs :(

It is a bad tradesman who blames his tools ;)

In my case ... it's a pathetic tradesman who can't use is tools :( 
Get to work on my editor wench! 
Oh Yeah 
It is a bad tradesman who blames his tools is a terrible expression. By that logic I would be wrong to blame a warm squash for not helping me cut down a redwood. 
Oh No 
Tools, to any rational, person would refer to something within the realm of sanity, to do with the job at hand, ie, not a warm squash for not helping me cut down a redwood. 
Thanks AguiRe 
After perusing peekaboom's site and reading some of the reveiws on PQ, I figured I had better get newer compilers than whats on the forge. I remember one of the reveiws saying the author had implemented tex lighting ala q2 style. Is that possible in Bengt's tool? I read over the readme but found nothing obvious stating such support. Id really like to be able to use that. 
In Case You Are Unaware 
AguirRe is Bengt, so you are asking the right person. 
Hehe..didnt Know! 
Least I know he knows what hes saying.

One other thing before bedtime...there was a mapper that did a bunch of "space" themed maps for q1. You know the ones with all the platforms in the void. What was his name? I tried to find the guy on PQ but Ill be damned if I can now. Want to do a goole for his homepage/any maps...I really like that style.

Thanks and peace! 
Well what about a dull chisel? What qualifier can go in front of tools which doesn't make the sentence self-contradictory?

The point I'm trying to make here is that you would obviously be right to blame crappy tools. You would only blame the tools for being crappy in one way or another to being with. You could modify the saying into: it is a bad tradesman who blames his tools which I deem to be good tools. But it's very self-centric to say the tools best for me are best for everyone else. 
From The Sublime To The Rediculous 
Theres another old saying you can pick away at if you like, lol

Incase you couldn't tell, it was a joke

it is a bad tradesman who blames his tools which I deem to be good tools. But it's very self-centric to say the tools best for me are best for everyone else.

WhereTF did that come from, I never said it, nor meant it. Get over yourself

I presume you mean the coagula maps by ELEK;

(Although all the links on that site are buggered I'm afraid) 
"it's a bad craftsman blahblahgualgh"
there's another saying; radiant is a useless piece of overbloated shit.
look, no smiley.

if I could but write the code that makes these deviled computers go bing. oh, how I would.

In all seriousness, I'm gonna go over my old notes from work and try and put together some kind of feature-list/mission description. something that would be practically possible from first build to first public release.
just for the fuck of it. 
bad grammar. 
No Wasnt Coagula 
These were DM only maps similar to the ones we see in q3a so much.I think I have one from the author on my HD. I just havent had time to go through all 178 of them to figure out which one it is! 
bah spend more time with it and stop whining or I'll destroy all exhaust pipes in the world! 
I know there was a guy who made a few Q3A-> Q1 maps, including one of q3dm17. It's framerate sucked mightily though.
I made a Q1 space map called Void Runner, with slightly lower ( though still extortionate ) r_speeds. 
that's it. you're on the list. 
Wrath: I look forward to reading it.

Abyss: I just hate it when sayings are taken as true just because they're sayings. I also hate it when mysticism is taken as true by virtue of being old. 
I'm not sure what you mean by Q2 style lighting, but there is no surface lighting in my Light tool. Only some options that hopefully make it easier, faster and more fun to light a map.

And in the end maybe also make a better-looking, more realistic map. Try it and see if you like it ... 
Haven't you been reading ?

Shouldn't that be

In my opinion radiant is a useless piece of overbloated shit ;) Look, smiley

Could you plz plz plz *I love you plz* add colored light (.lit) support to your awesome light tool? I know I can generate a .lit and then recompile with your tool but that sucks hard, and the colored lights wont be 4x4 oversampled (??).

Remember what matters most : I LOVE U!!! 
I Second That Motion 
And double the amount of plz's, hmm, I can't say I love you though, how about 'strongly like' 
I always have hated that expression. In my opinion. Well of course it's in my opinion, you twat, if it was in someone else's I'd have to provide a reference. What kind of soft hippie-fuck society is this that we always have to soften up our mental carpet-bombings with a IMO and end it with a got vordamnte smiley?!

This continued pussy-fication (thank you carlin) is a pet peeve of mine. No, worse, it's a fucking atrocity - on which mankind should collectively unleash their bile.

Radiant is a piece of steaming cattle dung.

You think otherwise? Fine, doesn't matter to me. On an unrelated note, do you also enjoy gouging your eyes out? Self-mutilation via dull spoon? Giving birth to a duplex? Anal birth, even?

In other news, I'm drunk as a skunk.

Also, cranky. 
I demand that a 'n' be added to that 'a' in front of 'IMO'! Or else the terrorists will surely emerge victorious from whatever fight we're currently engaging in.

Also, more drink, and a pony. And the moon - while you're at it. 
I always have hated that expression. In my opinion. Well of course it's in my opinion, you twat, if it was in someone else's I'd have to provide a reference.
I am just refering you to pushplays earlier comments on the subject.


What kind of soft hippie-fuck society is this
The kind of society that I beleive you would belong to. Because as we all know your projected self here on the net is just a cover. I doubt you would have the ability to stand in a face to face confrontation with your fellow man.


Radiant is a piece of steaming cattle dung
That is an opinion, and (I say again) We all know what Mr Eastwood said about opinions.


You think otherwise? Fine, doesn't matter to me
Oh, but obviously it does


On an unrelated note, do you also enjoy gouging your eyes out
No, but I do enjoy inflicting physical pain on other members of my species, I must admit, but hey, we all like doing what we are good at.


Self-mutilation via dull spoon
I would have inserted the dull spoon into the chuck of a high speed drill first, but, whatever takes your fancy


Giving birth to a duplex? Anal birth, even
hmmm, perhaps you are flashing back to your own birth, where your mother gave birth to you anally, in a duplex?


In other news, I'm drunk as a skunk
Umm, you forgot ignorant arrogant asshole ;)

(ended with vordamnte smiley)


Of course, this is only, IMHO :)

(ended with vordamnte smiley, and an IMHO
No offense to your good self or your mother intended, of course. 
Correct Quote-tagging Is For Women, Faggots 
"I am just refering you to pushplays earlier comments on the subject."

Are you seriously expecting me to keep up with the inane ramblings of the servant staff? Uh?!

"The kind of society that I beleive you would belong to. Because as we all know your projected self here on the net is just a cover. I doubt you would have the ability to stand in a face to face confrontation with your fellow man."

Well, I'm a skinny guy. We fight till we're burger - in the immortal words of Tyler Durden.
In addition, I'm cheating by way of exo-skeleton.

"That is an opinion, and (I say again) We all know what Mr Eastwood said about opinions."

I give up. What DID Eastwood say about opinions? (Rhetorical question, do not answer.)

"Oh, but obviously it does"

I beg to differ. I also beg for mercy, salvation, from the idiots. So far, no luck.

"No, but I do enjoy inflicting physical pain on other members of my species, I must admit, but hey, we all like doing what we are good at."

You sir, lack ambition. Why stop at your kindred species?! Fuck the whales, fuck them right in their blow-holes, what have they ever done for us?
Ambition, ambition.

"I would have inserted the dull spoon into the chuck of a high speed drill first, but, whatever takes your fancy"

You sir, lack conviction. If you have to rush it, it's not really fun. Softie.

"hmmm, perhaps you are flashing back to your own birth, where your mother gave birth to you anally, in a duplex?"

You sir, lack finesse. That would be the retort of your average four year old...


"Umm, you forgot ignorant arrogant asshole ;)"
I object to ignorant, the other - I freely admit. 
None taken. If you knew my mother, you wouldn't care about offending her.

When (if ever. Oh, if ever) she dies, I will perform a small dance, followed by a toast. Then, checking the will. 
Thank You Sir 
That would be the retort of your average four year old...

Almost but not quite, actually, it is the retort of your average fourty year old. But I will take that as a compliment. I am young at heart.

As much fun as this has been, this is the Mapping Help thread. So I bid you good day 
That was supposed to be
As much fun as this has been, this is the Mapping Help thread, not the Mental Help thread. So I bid you good day 
I'd Just Like To Step Out Of The Closet For A Second... let you both know I love you with all my heart and I will go to bed a happy man tonight and masturbate furiously in the morning because of you.

I second the motion. Both. Love. Happy. Furiously.
Good night :)

( look, a smiley ^^^ ) 
hardcore gay bondage sex?! this remindsme, jesus and satan pratice kamasutra together. 
What I meant about q2 lighting style was the texture based lighting. The fact you could "turn on" a texture and have it emit an averaged colored light. (based on the textures base color) I know some of the newer maps I have looked at have exibited similar lighting qualities around textures as q2 had on some of it textures. 
What DID Eastwood Say About Opinions? 
There are two kinds of opinions in this world: those with guns and those who dig. 
Opinions are like assholes, everyones got one 
You had to answer, didn't you? 
I would love to refer you all to the classic internet picture which carries a small messege, unfortunately I suck and dont have it or know the link, so this quote will have to do instead :

"Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics. Even if you win, your still retarded"

:) :) :) :) :) :) :D :D :D :D :D :D !!!!! 
At the very least, I strive to be the best retard of them all.

A dubious honor to be sure. Still, it's good to have goals. 
DaZ, Abyss 
I'm sorry to disappoint you guys, but I've no current plans to include coloured lighting or antilights in my Light tool.

They're both features that I don't use myself or have any major interest in. It's also not that easy to incorporate them, they both require substantial changes and add quite a bit complexity.

I hope you'll understand my current stance. It may change of course ... 
That's OK 
I didn't hold much hope, as I asked you before if you were planning it, but you got to be in it to win it, so I thought I would through my hat in the ring again. 
AFAIK, what you call texture based lighting is what is known as surface lighting and my tool doesn't do that.

There is however a tool called q1rad that can do that, go to for more details and download.

If you've seen a recent map that has been lit by my light tool and that appears to have surface lighting, maybe it's because I've added some softening features that can reduce the sometimes harsh shadowing of Q1.

I think a good mapper can make use of this and create an atmosphere that feels a bit different than regular Q1 but still with the same relentless combat. Or something ... 
I have no idea what utility the guy used on the map, it just appeared to be using surface lighting. I will probly try both of them out to see which I like more. 
Sorry To Dig Up The Dead But... 
Wazat's thought process:

>As much fun as this has been, this is the Mapping Help thread, not the Mental Help thread. So I bid you good day

1st reaction: Aw mannnn... I'm in the wrong place.

2nd reaction: Wait, there really is a Mental Help thread? Then the stories are true! Link!

3rd reaction: Where am I, and why are the people arguing?

I just think it's funny that such a large percentage of the recent posts was just a flame war. Here I was thinking there was an in-depth discussion on the higher principles of mapping, spanning over 50 or so posts. :) 
that was NOT a flame war. 
That was polite Sunday-afternoon banter. 
A difference of opinions on the finest of points. Carried out in a diplomatic, open-minded exchange of ideas on a multitude of non-offending subjects.

Yes, quite. 
My Mistake 
That was a couple of hundred posts short of a flame war too 
If I play my cards right, I can start a flame war over the definition of a flamewar...

/me is left to ponder... 
Long time since I saw a good old flamewar.

Someone insult someone! 
Well, Ok. But I'm Not Responsible For What Happens... 
I think Lovecraft is stupid, even though I've never read anything he's ever written and have no idea what it's about.

I'm also not a fan of Giger.

Those seem to be two of the most highly guarded subjects on this board, at least. 
Lovecraft couldn't write good prose to save his life, and Giger was a first class, blue ribbon asshole. I wouldn't call any of them holy cows either.

You suck at this game. 
Wazat And Wrath 
Your favorite bands suck. 
What A Coincidence 
My favorite band is "SUCK" as well. 
they suck 
Bloody Amateurs... 
*cough* scale *cough* 
This Is Too Hard 
Can't we just insult another board and start an inter-forum war? That always works. 
your a flaming cunt. 
I'm blushing. 
No Im Totally Serious 
You come on this board thinking u have a massive dick but NO! U have nothing, just a shitty white name and no brackets!

*continues Blushing* 
The Continued Misadventures Of Me 
ok, you know how I mentioned that gtkradiant was really sluggish? everytime I moved about in freelook or moved, resized or otherwise violated the brushes - the cpu would peak and everything would go "no-no-no-not on your life pal".

well. It's gone right now. I haven't changed shit. I installed mplayer for windows yesterday, but that's Got damn it.

tried restarting gtkr, could've been a fluke, but it's still as smooth as one should expect.

now I'm afraid of rebooting my system.

computers, like women, remain a mystery unto the world. 
I Understand Computers *way* Better... 
than I understand women. This is why most of my relationships involve electronics. Until the playstation 2 dumped me. Now I just sit in the dark and remember better times...

About gtkr, it's possible mplayer installed better drivers, or tweaked something in your config setups, and gtkr is benefiting too. Or, knowing mplayer, your computer was probably so traumatized it couldn't screw with you today.

Either way, you *probably* don't have to fear restarting your computer. 
Player can walk over 32 units holes in floor, monsters cannot. Is it possible to make them do that somehow without trigger_monsterjump (clips doesn't help)

You could use a func_wall using Tyrann's skip/caulk tool, but then you couldn't shoot through it.

Tyrann, last I checked your skip/caulk tool wasn't listed on your website. I know it's beta and all that, but what gives? 
where can I get this skip/caulk tool? 
May I e-mail it to you? 
my e-mail is 
Look In The 2000 Archives... 
second update. link still works

I do believe that was the only version ever... 
See Scampie's post. He rocks. 
RPG & Scampie 
tanks a lot for help 
tank u! 
Oh Yea-h- 
tanks rocks ;)))

my -h-ands don't listen to me when I'm almost asleep 
German Panther... sexiest tank of all time (especially teh Jagdpanther). 
and RPG coming a close second :D 
Mapping Help 
Im working on a Q1 map and am trying to realize this. as you go down a set of stairs a platform in front of you goes down (& stays down) as you go back up, the platform goes up (& stays up). any ideas? help much appreciated. 
Mapping Help 
Im working on a Q1 map and am trying to realize this. as you go down a set of stairs a platform in front of you goes down (& stays down) as you go back up, the platform goes up (& stays up). any ideas? help much appreciated. 
what's the problem there exactly?
what do you want exactly? 
I Don't Think That's Possible. 
since the only way to control a door in q1 is to set it as toggleable. but that means it will only toggle from up and down on each triggering, so you wouldn't be able to control which state it should stay in depending on which direction your going in.

you can try adding an angle value to your triggers that are attached to the door. the angle keys will make sure the triggers can only be activated in a certain direction, but beyond that, i don't think there's much else to do. 
It Can Be Done... 
but it's complicated. I'll post an explanation when i get home. 
I Dunno If This Is What You Want 
But check out this:

That's the best approximation of what you're describing I can think of. 
Look At CZG's Map 
He did exactly what i had in mind. 
Many Thanks Indeed! 
Famous E1m8 

Here a mapper, who tries to compile a map for
the famous e1m8 gravity level.
I done so, changed in the world.qc name for e1m8,
compiled, but the level does not appear in the game.

Is it possible to do so, or is it just whisfull
Haven't seen so much gravity levels afterall. 
Well, Technically Yes 
But, I've noticed that quite often the game favors files in the pak files over files outside of it. However, if you change the directory using -game, the new directory's files take priority. So, you have two options:

1. Delete the original e1m8 from the ID1 folder's pak file
2. create a new folder in the quake dir called mymaps or e1m8, make a 'maps' folder inside that folder and put your bsp in it, and start quake with -game e1m8 or -game mymaps (whatever the folder name is). For example,
quake -game e1m8

A third option is to use a progs.dat or other mod that supports map gravity. For example, I believe my VoidEnts mod allows for map gravity by giving worldspawn a "speed" or "gravity" value (it also supports localized gravity, like in a certain room etc). Then you wouldn't have to name your map e1m8, but you would have to start with the -game parameter to run the mod.

Hope that helps. 
Loosing Weight 
Thanx Wazat.

I am using it in a convertion, so I have to pack al the files in a PAK file as a convertion. Don't know if I'll manege that.
And I don't want people, who play the sequel,
to ask to delete a file from their PAK-file.
Probably they just don't know how, and it would scare them off to play.

I will take a good look at your voidents again.
(As the laserbeam still is a mistery to me) 
Dammit. Why Isn't The Force With ME? 
I'm having problems with patches and my Jedi Academy map -- the patches are quite defined and obvious, and do not blend at all. I've done what I can with the textures lining up and all, it seems that the patches themselves are apparently the tools of the Dark Side. Where is Obi-Juan when I need him? 
I suggest just using brushes and not all this new fangled 'patch' technology. 
why can't I just change the name e1m8 in the world's.qc into the map name I need?
I've been looking to the voident article, but I couldn't find a gravity option. 
check out Custents; it allows you to change gravity without editing quakec.

Anyone have a Custents download URL? 
Big Thanx there, FatController & Wazat!

I was looking for these files a long time.
Had a lot of it, but only in the *.qrk extention. And Quark is good!
But now I can at least compile with the true-ones.

Anyone seen the dragon.qc ? 
I need RTCW single player tutorials, can any one help ? 
First Result On Google...

There's accually a bunch of good tutorials there for general quake3 engine mapping too. 
Try giving worldspawn a "speed" value, that might do it. If not, I probably forgot to update the VoidEnts download after re-doing them for Battle Mech.

I'll try to get that done sometime soon. So busy with college... :)

BTW, Custents is an awesome mod to use. I highly recommend it. 
Try -- that should cover what you're looking for, soldier. 
Mistar Webmast�r Metal-slimes Sir! 
I managed to cook up* a bsp that creates that fantastic got a NaN velocity on monster_whatever error in fitzquake. (The one necros was moaning about earlier.) Just wondering if you ever found out what caused it, and perchance if the bsp would be of any interest.

* By "cook up" I mean I decompiled one of my maps with a bsp2map proggy and tried to recompile it again. 
I used to get this in the debug build, and i was really worried until i found out that the problem went away in a release build.

Anyway, i'm pretty sure it's a compiler thing (as i haven't done anything with physics code) but... hmm. I don't really know what causes it. I can look into it, and maybe i can write some code that says "if you get a NaN velocity, reset the velocity to zero" or something... so that the error will still happen, but you can keep playing anyway. 
Whenever *I* got it, it was always on the player, and always in a debug build. But i assume it's related either way. For the record, necros' map was totally crazy in the brush department, so the solution may be, "don't make totally crazy in the brush department maps" or something. 
I'm totally drunk, and i can barely operate the keyboard or focus on the monitor. So it's a wonder i can still spell or type. I guess it's becuase i'm a bad-ass. Anyway. 
More Flexible Light Distribution In Q1 
If you've been having problems with Q1 light banding effects in e.g. arch faces or infinite (delay 3) lights saturating entire areas, you might want to take a look at my latest Light 1.26 version available at .

There are several new options for more flexible light distribution. Also, there are several new emulation modes for the ArghLite/IKLite/LightDLX tools. 
For the record, necros' map was totally crazy in the brush department, so the solution may be, "don't make totally crazy in the brush department maps" or something.

The map in question, (which, as I said, was a result of a decompile of one of my bsps,) was composed of 5000 1 unit thin brushes (the original map was 1000 brushes) , each representing one face in the map. So yeah, it was crazy in the brush department.
It leaked too... 
Just To Let You Know: 
it was on a monster_shalrath, so i just moved all the shalraths around. stupid way to fix a problem but it worked.

ps: and it's moaning now, eh? :P 
Floating Items 

I've seen some maps with armors hanging in the air, how's that done? 
Floating Items 

I've seen some maps with armors hanging in the air, how's that done? 
1. func_wall is a support for that armor
2. set trigger_once with kill_target key set to that func_wall
3. put info_player_start into that trigger 
Or If You're Talking About Q3 
just set the 'suspended' option on the item. 
Qonverge Compile Error - Couldn't Read Rest Of File 
OK, I'm using Hammer and Qonverge... oops I mean WorldCraft 3.3 and Qonverge, and get this error " Error 35: error reading from file. " after it starts to process Hull 3. Both Hulls 1 and 2 apparently have leaks somehow, { "Warning 10: reached occupant at <x y z> no filling performed" ) even though I've made sure the entire map is leak proof... I think anyway. i've never gotten this error before, and haven't found anything on here about this error. Can anyone help me fix this? Would be most appreciated. Happy Thanksgiving! 
Error Reading From File 
Thats a new one for me, and I've been using Qonverge and hammer uhh wc 3.3 for ages.

Just a thought, but isn't hull 3 for use with player crouching? (I might be wrong) If it is then there should be a parameter you can set so that the compiler doesn't compile the map to be "crouch compatible". Which is q1 matters not a lot :) 
What I Meant Is 
with this parameter hull 3 wont try and be created so your error might dissapear. 
Which Parameter... 
is it? Or do you know? I dunno maybe I should try to see if there are some leaks that I didn't get? 
Ummm -nocrouch 
didn't work. I tried it when I compiled, instead I just got the same error after hull 2, so that wasn't it. 
the problem runs a little deeper then :/

I dunno if I can help any more as I've never had this issue before :( I'm sure someone else around here can help, the guy who wrote the compiler has been known to peruse these forums on the odd occassion :) 
I'm Not The Maker 
of DuBSP (which is a part of the Qonverge utils), but I might be able to help you if you send me the zipped map+wad. 
I was running the forumboards and came to someone, who had construckted with WorldCraft1.6

He got the error at the Quake1-console:
- too many efrags! -

Does anyone know, what this means? 
I believe this is something to do with complex brush models split over too many leafs in the BSP. Each bit is split into a separate "entity fragment" of which there is presumably a maximum number. It can happen if you use that trick to reduce the number of bmodels by combining ones from different parts of the map into a single func_wall or whatever.

On the same principle it can probably also happen if you have a very large bmodel or one in an area of very complex brushwork. 
Luma Gloss Bump Stuff 
While I'm here I'll ask a question. It's been suggested to me that I make a version of gmsp3 using hi-res textures and all the latest technology for use in engines such as DarkPlaces.

I'd like to do this (as long as it isn't too muxh work) not because I think it will necessarily be any better than the original but as a learning exercise for myself.

Not having kept up to date with this new fangled stuff (& never having glimpsed the doom3 leak) can someone suggest some beginners tutorials that would get me started.
Copied from Google usenet search :

I posted this question a few weeks ago and nobody even tried to
answer it! However, I did find out what was causing it in my maps. I
don't care for ID's torches, so I created my own using a thirteen sided
spike and the light_flame_small_yellow entity. I had tons of these
custom torches in my map and it ran great up to a point. I use
WorldCraft to create my maps and I found that if I moved the entity to
where it actually touched the brush that I would get efrags.

An efrag is caused when an entity is actually partially inside a
brush. The Quake engine is capable of handling a certain number of
efrags, but beyond that number it creates the "too many efrags!"
message. WorldCraft's entity sizes are not always correct, for example
the health entity is way too small in WC.

The entity for the
light_flame_small_yellow is too small in WC also, so by lining up the
brush and entity so that it looked like they just touch, I was actually
putting the entity partially inside the brush. This is what created the
efrags in my map. The solution is to put the light_flame_small_yellow
entity about 8 units above the brush. This doesn't look as good since
the flame doesn't originate at the botton of the entity, it floats
slightly above the bottom. I have noticed this problem with all of the
flame entities.

As far as not vissing the map, you will get the efrags message
whether or not you run a vis. The error is caused by the entity being
partially inside a brush. Curiously enough, light still creates lighting
effects even though the affected flames disappear from the map.

Andy Knies

Maybe this helps? 
Info_intermission Cameras 
Is there a limit to the number of intermission cameras a map can have in a Q1SP map? I put four cams in this map, and those work fine. When I add a fifth, either the first four continue to work but the new one won't, or the new one works but one of the old four won't. (When I say "won't work" I mean it won't use that cam for the intermission.)

I guess I've already proven that more than four cameras won't work and I'm just looking for someone to confirm it. 
I can't believe I am giving a first rate mapper advice, but here it goes -- The information on editing gloss, luma, bump/normal maps here is applicable for any of the accelerated builds.
I don't think you'll need a tutorial on this aspect because if you understand the directory structure used for the accelerated Quakes (Quake\Tenebrae\Override -- for Tenebrae, Quake\Id\Textures for Darkplaces) you have most of the problem with texture placement solved.

If your concerns are with understanding the underlying technology, this guys page, can be of help. 
I played gmsp3 on the latest Telejano 7.2 a few weeks back, and visually it already appeared pretty damn sweet. Of the three Quake acelerated builds, Telejano mangles the original textures the least. 
Thought I might try mapping again. Have been using Fitzquake to play the latest levels.

Copied my old Bsp Editor directory from my old slow computer onto my new fast one and am therefore using all of the old utilities - qbsp, light and vis. All seems OK (the editor works as it used to) until it comes to launching Fitzquake after a compile, and then I just get a crash.

If I try to run the compiled level from the game, it doesn't crash but I get some video problems and the game will not continue.

I suppose the question really is - do I need different compile utilities for Fitzquake. 
Is it actually a crash, or does it quit with an error message?

Is the error message "couldn't find gfx.wad?"

If yes, check out RPG's question and my response starting with this post:

However, what about the video problems? I need more information to help with that. 
Looking at FindIntermission() in client.qc, it seems that you're right. That function appears to randomly pick from the first four info_intermission entities it can find. 
Thanks. What I thought was a crash or video problem is actually neither. I had placed a few brushes in the editor along with a player start just to see if I could remember what to do. I had not created a 'closed world' and the video "problem" I saw was what you experience if you no-clip outside of a normal map.

All of my editor's batch utilities seem to work except BspBuild, which crashes with a 'path not found' error: I am still trying to work this one out but I'll get there.

I don't suppose anyone still uses Bsp and BspBuild these days? Is there a better FREE editor (I did try Worldcraft once but couldn't get on with it)

Thinking of what I've just asked, I am an old dog that probably should not try learning new tricks - I'll carry on with Bsp. 
Here is a visually interesting article on normal map application I just came across in my reading. 
The techniques described in the article can be used in Blender which is free-ware. 
But Then Again ... 
A quick straw pole: what editors are in regular use for Quake1SP? 
Thx HeadThump 
Nearly There (If Anyone Is Interested) 
Got BspBuild sorted out: all of its' settings are in the registry, so just had to find them and hey presto!

So, where do I find all of the old half finished, half forgotten maps to start FMB15? Perhaps I can even join several in 100 minutes and enter them in the Speed Mapping Paks?

Any offers for my straw pole, 'cause if there are better editors nowadays, I would like to give them a try? 

minor ones like
I have had a quick look at the gtkradiant site and saw this message: -

Note: some work is currently being done to release a Quake game editing pack for GtkRadiant.

Does anyone use it for Quake1 at the moment? 
Many Use Gtkrad Or Qer For Quake 
but with utils like mapconv instead of full in editor support. It works fine while waiting for full quake support.

I've Never Mapped For Q1 With Something Other Than GtkRadiant 
To Get You Started With It 
i wrote a short little "guide" explaining how to get gtkr working for q1 maps.

someone else did another guide which i think explains things a little better than mine, but i don't remember who. 

is the one necros is trying to remember, i think. 
I've noticed that the navigation at your site doesn't seem to be working correctly. Well, no links to seperate sections appear anymore on the main page. 
I use QERadiant and then SleepwalkR's mapconv to convert the .maps to Q1 format, which are then compiled with the normal compile tools. 
Yep, That's The One! :) 
also, HeadThump, what browser are you using? there should be a small nav section in the topright corner. 
IE 6.0 
I use only Worldcraft for Q1 and GTKRadiant for Q3. So much simpler to not use converters.

I'll use Radiant for everything when it supports Q1 'out of the box'. 
I'll have a go at GTKRadiant today sometime.

It looks complicated .... 
actually it's much more effective than WC. just try learning its basics and you'll see the light :)

i cannot map in wc after i switched to radiant.

fyi, i made my first map (kaos) for one week. during that week i learned radiant and made the map. 
The MapConv utility is pretty simple. Just put it in a file along with a dos prompt and your Quake .map file. Type, 'Mapconv -toq1' at the prompt and it'll convert the map from Quake 3 and 2 formats to Quake 1, and obviously '-toq2' if you are converting the other way.

That assumes that you have Dos available, of course. 
You don't have to use the Converter to get the Quake I .map to display in GTKRadiant so you would not need the mapconv tool for that purpose. 
I Mean, 
GTKRadiant already displays Quake I maps. 
fyi, i made my first map (kaos) for one week. during that week i learned radiant and made the map.

yes, but what you're forgetting Vondur is, YOU R4WK!!11!!

It's not that it's hard to do that stops me, it's just that fact that I'd rather not have to do anything special to get it to all work. Call me lazy, but I'd rather just work in multiple editors for now. 
Rocks And Skyboxes 
Can anyone help me: I'm finishing Q1SP map where I use sock_eg wad and need some rock textures and skybox to fit the theme (egypt). I have some custom textures of rocks but they don't fit the map good IMHO so I used ID original rock textures temporary and now it's time change them 
I Use Quark As An Editor.

It's easy, simple, and has a very nice entity/brush list that I can't survive without. One of the major reasons I've never converted to another editor is, the ones people keep suggesting have no entity/brush list. I depend on that do find my brushes at least half the time. I do not enjoy playing the "let's find the obscure brush lost in the jungle that I was just working with not 2 seconds ago" every time I want to edit a brush that's not immediately accessible in my current view or zoom.

And I'm not heavy enough into mapping to go learning everything all over again. :) 
I already have 2 skyboxes in a desert theme and I can also make one specifically for you. Could probably do a rock texture too.
Lemme check Sock's egyptian textures, possibly show me a screenie or whatever, and we'll talk. 
Faaaark Someone Uses Quaaaaaark? 
Nah, that is not lazy. Alternative methodology. 
Does Quark have a spawnflag explanation/selection in its entity list? I encountered an odd one for the Hellknight that I had never seen before, and it did not seem to be listed in the .qc source either. How it actually functioned (it has to be there somewhere!) has baffled me. 
It usually explains the spawnflags pretty well. If you hover the mouse over (or click) the ? button above the entity list, that should help.

What's the spawnflag that's giving you trouble? I might be able to explain it. 
Thanks Wazat 
I decided it was worth downloading (the 4. x) version, and figured out what happened on the source map (one of the 100 Brush contest maps); it was a miscalculation - perhaps from calculating in Death Match, I suspect. 
Between using the 3d view window and a number of commands that let you select the depth of the brush you're selecting I find grabbing brushes to be a snap in radiant. I don't know how brushes are IDed in a brush list but I'd hate to have to remember numbers corresponding to brushes. 
My map isn't lit yet. But that's ok I may e-mail you a screenshot.
But I use completely sock_eg wad (without any other textures) 
Probably so. I just like having brush groups and such listed just like vector paths and layers in illustraitor/photoshop. 
Mystery Leak 
Whenever i compile the map i'm working on, it says there is a leak at a light. The map compiled fine until i added in the most recent 6 light entities. I thought that maybe if i deleted those light entities the map would compile fine. However, when i compiled after deleting the new light entities, the leak was pinpointed at lights that had been working perfectly fine before. Anyone have any idea what's going on here?

C:\Program Files\worldcraft\Q1Tools>qbsp qtooe2m4
TreeQBSP v1.90 -- Modified by Bengt Jardrup

Input file:
Output file: qtooe2m4.bsp
---- LoadMapFile ----
*** WARNING 06: No info_player_deathmatch entities in level
2954 faces
519 brushes
41 entities
22 unique texnames
516 texinfo

Building hulls sequentially...
Processing hull 0...
---- Brush_LoadEntity ----
514 brushes
---- CSGFaces ----
2916 brushfaces
1733 csgfaces
1670 mergedfaces
---- SolidBSP ----
1712 split nodes
812 solid leafs
838 empty leafs
63 water leafs
3029 leaffaces
2806 nodefaces
---- FillOutside ----
*** WARNING 10: Reached occupant at (224 -1088 144), light
Simplifying ... Leak file written to qtooe2m4.pts
---- MakeFaceEdges ----
---- GrowRegions ----
Processing hull 1...
Processing hull 2...
*** WARNING 19: No entities in empty space -- no filling performed
---- WriteBSPFile ----
697 planes 13940
3034 vertexes 36408
1750 nodes 42000
516 texinfo 20640
2844 faces 56880
1664 clipnodes 13312
940 leafs 26320
3067 marksurfaces 6134
11219 surfedges 44876
6993 edges 27972
22 textures 194772
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 3222

3 warnings

Elapsed time : 0:02

Peak memory used : 2.1 MB

C:\Program Files\worldcraft\Q1Tools>tyrlite -extra qtooe2m4
----- TyrLite v0.94 -----
extra sampling enabled
BSP is version 29
using minlight value 20 from worldspawn.
41 entities read, 19 are lights.
Lighting face 2844 of 2844
Lighting Completed.

lightdatasize: 44429
0 switchable light styles
Writing BSP version 29
2.0 seconds elapsed

C:\Program Files\worldcraft\Q1Tools>vis -level 4 qtooe2m4
---- vis ----
testlevel = 4
LoadPortals: couldn't read qtooe2m4.prt
No vising performed. 
load up the pointfile in game and find that leak
check the light entity at (224 -1088 144) in editor to see where the path will start 
What Kell Said And 
to get rid of the "No entities in empty space ..." warning in hull 2, you must make sure that at least one entity is moved further away of nearby walls/floors etc. I don't remember the exact distance required (it varies with hull).

If you can't sort it out, send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it. 
Worked Quite Well 
I found the leak almost immediatly. Thanks Kell 
I'm using light entities to do all my lighting. I have my light entities right up against their brush sources. If i moved them away, would that solve the problem? 
I'm using light entities to do all my lighting. I have my light entities right up against their brush sources. If i moved them away, would that solve the problem? 
if you have light entities close to a brush feature ( e.g. a light fixture ) don't place the entity flush with the surface of the brush; move it away. Distance depends on the effect you want for your lighting, but I'd say 8 uits should do nicely.
Never place a point entity so that its origin point is flush with a brush ( ooh, poetry ) 
You'll Need At Least 
one entity (e.g. the info_player_start) that's clearly separated from the solid architecture, maybe by 32 units (I don't recall the exact value). You'll know you're clear when the warning disappears for all hulls.

Think of hulls 1 and 2 as "pumped up" (expanded) variants of hull 0 (the visible brushwork). Therefore you might need to move the entity yet a little bit even if it's visibly clear off the brushwork. 
it would work to add an info_null to your level which is the correct distance away from all brushes, if you don't want to move your real entities around. 
A Question For Speed Map Veterens 
Many maps generated from the Speedmaps actually have pretty decent play and layouts. At the very least, they tend to be of a better quality than any one would expect given the time limit. What kind of methods do you use to speed up the process, or, how do you organize your productivity differently than when you are mapping without the time restraint? 
It Worked 
It seems that you were right about the placement of the player start entity. I just moved it as you said, and all was well.

Thanks for the help Aguire and Metlslime 
How I Speedmap. 
I just use a shortened version of my own mapping habits. Make a cool area, think about what it will lead to, continue down that route. I start with little or no idea what I'll be doing for the round.

My latest speedmap, I knew I wanted a graveyard, so I started with some tombstones, and made it a dark room so I wouldn't have to fuck with the walls much. I knew then I had to go inside maybe a temple, so I built a little entryway, then added functionality for monsters in that room. I add all the entities as I go, making it easy to quickly finish up the map if need be. Also helps think about progression and balence of the map because I know what I've done it what that player has seen.

Anyway, after the entryway, I built the little main hall with blinky lights (my new fave speedmappery toy) and decided to add a gold key bit. My first thoughts were to make a large area with 2 floors and a squarish bit in the middle containing the gold key and monsters... Reliezed I was late on time, and started on just making it a little room with a key and a few baddies.

Decided it was way too easy and far too bland to be worth while, so I thought back to my e4 playthrough for an idea. Remembered the bit with the moving wall that was so interesting, and yet completely simple to implant.

Neat thing about making it was that the candle light models can't move with the moving wall, so I placed them where they'd be in the 'open' position, and presto, 'elder torches that light instantly!' I thought it was a pretty cool unplanned idea, but no one seemed to notice :(

After that, threw in the end, and called it quits. Complied, played thru, Added more shells, health, and rockets than I had at first, and hid an armor in the graveyard, and called it good.

The problems with my method are obvious, easy to get off track, easy to spend way too long on a start area, breeds rather short maps. Some of the advandges are that it lets me dynamic with the map and fuck around with neat ideas withoutworry because I can always end maps quickly.

A better plan may be to quickly build a layout in 5-10 mins, detail it in 50-75 mins, add ents as you detail, and get in a few quick playthroughs. It's very recommended to leave a few mins to test frequently and some spare time for last min fixes. 
Thanks Scampie 
I did notice it -- the map kind of took me back to the old days of the game Dungeon Master where each room was an original way to screw with the player. I wondered when I played your map how much thought had to go into that trick. 
Worldcraft Question 
I've been asked a mapping question and rather than point the askee here I thought I'd ask myself, so apologies in advance if I use any mapping terminology incorrectly.

Using worldcraft shareware version.

Got a .map from someone.

It's all very dark i.e. no lights.

lots of light entities in the .map

Someone else opened it in quark. Lots of light just as it should be.


Is this a known issue?
Would the registered version fix it?

The guy in question doesn't want to have to learn a new editor just for this so please don't say "use a different editor".
Better still can someone mail me the registered worldcraft so he can try it and then you can post something here saying "No I won't send you the registered version. That would be dishonest. The very idea!"

Lights just aren't bright enough I'd bet. There's no limitations for lights or anything like that in shareware Worldcraft.

If I were at home ATM, I'd post the registered version anyway. It's not dishonest to get the registered version of an editor you can't buy anymore. 
Here Ya Go 
Cheers, Scampers. Cheers, Starbers.

Now the blind shall eat, the hungry shall walk and the Lame shall see again. :-) 
Um... I just try to map really, really fast.

Seriously, I do all the architecture first, then the lighting, then the gameplay. Sometimes I set up the brush entities (doors, buttons, etc) as I make them, but sometimes I do that when I get ready to do the gameplay. Frequently I'll do the basic lighting, and then after I check to make sure that's mostly okay, I'll tweak the lighting as I tweak the gameplay. I also play through the maps a few times to make sure the gameplay is mostly balanced and completable.

Also, if there are any bugs, I will take the necessary time to fix them, even it takes 30 minutes extra. Bugs are bad, mmkay? 
most of the people doing good speedmaps have probably done pretty much mapping in the past and that should help... another good thing might be to decide on a plan and stick with it no matter what. 
because it's "just a speedmap" i do a lot less second-guessing than when i normally map. In a real map, i often delete entire rooms when i decide they aren't good enough. In speedmapping, pretty much every brush is worth keeping.

As for the process, i speedmap the same way i make real maps -- every room is built, lit, and stuffed with entities before i move on to the next room. (Though at work, i've moved towards blocking out the entire level's layout before detailing anything.) 
Yeah That Too 
because it's "just a speedmap" i do a lot less second-guessing than when i normally map. In a real map, i often delete entire rooms when i decide they aren't good enough. In speedmapping, pretty much every brush is worth keeping.

trigger_multiple doesn't work inside trigger_push. Is it only my bug or not?

BTW Kell, did you get my e-mail?
and what's up with your site? 
got your mail; skybox is made and tested; working on some rock textures atm.
SOK was transferred to another server a few weeks ago when the net cafe where it was hosted closed down; consequently, it's down more often than it's up - sorry :( 
Thanks Every One For The Feedback 
R P G -- I find I have to do the entities along with the archetecture or else my scaling gets out of wack. This happened big time on a recent map I did for a Tikidomain contest that I wound up not submitting as a result of my mistake (it caused problems in the -vising). Chalk it up to experience, I guess. 
I don't normally have trouble with proportion. This is partly because I have almost all hallways 128 or 256 units wide and 128 or 192 units high. However, this becomes a problem because then everything becomes standardized and the map feels more rigid and less dynamic. 
I'm coming along in learning to proportion my maps better.

One way to break from making things look standardized (and after all standardization is realistic if you are doing human environs) is to weigh things down to account for gravity. Have the columns bend slightly in a downward slope, and the ceilings shift around a center of gravity.
I learned this from an architect who designed my old college's art building. He said that he always kept in mind the pivot point of his structures and the natural incline of gravity and weight to that point when he worked out his design to ensure maximum 'dramaturgy'.
It is a bit trickier to do in a virtual setting (veering from 15, 30, 45, and 90 degree brush design causes alignment problems) but that is all the more reason to fight for that extra last inch of realism. 
Mapping Help Becomes My Favourite Thread :) 
Is it possible to create monster clip in original quake? If it's possible than how? 
I mean only monsters couldn't pass thru it, not player or weapons 
The only thing you can do is use a trigger_monsterjump that throws monsters away from any doorways you don't want them to enter, but that looks silly though... 
Only In... 
QC code. If you're not too hot with including a progs.dat with your map, then it's not a feasible alternative. 
You could just add a gap under the doorway with lava at the bottom, so the player has to jump to get over it. Dogs and fiends can still pass though if the player is in sight... 
Good Idea 
The player can jump, or you can make a player-only teleporter to bridge a gap.

You can also use the fake q1 ladders, since monsters most definitely cannot use those.

Also, you can make a trigger (will only respond to players) that triggers a door or barrier to open or move, which then rapidly closes behind him.

But if you want a barrier that monster bullets and attacks cannot penetrate, then you'll need code for sure... maybe. People always have suprising tricks for these things. :) 
You could just add a gap under the doorway with lava at the bottom, so the player has to jump to get over it.

Or make that gap 48 unit wide, and put a clip brush on top. (You could also put func_illusionary bars over it so it looks solid.) The player can walk over it, but the monsters can't. 
Good to know. I had always assumed monsters could walk on clip, but this makes sense since tracelines go right through them.

Thanks, RPG. 
Sky Textures 
Is there, or could there be, a sky texture without a 'horizon'? Anyone know? 
thanks for you feedback, but my situation is a bit different, i.e. I need monster clip to protect trigger_mosterjump that I placed for one special monster that should fall on it from above

but I think making a gap around it will help me
/me goes to check it 
If the problem is that there's monsters running into the monsterjump after it's been used, you can kill it with killtargets you know... 
you could make a func_wall that covers the monsterjump for the earlier ones & then kill the func_wall to reveal it. If both are pretty thin it might hardly be noticeable. 
Or The Floor Is A Func_door... 
...that moves down a few units to expose the trigger. 
thanks a lot for feedback, I think now I'm able to make it work as I want 
Warning 12 
Warning 12: New portal was clipped away in CutNodePortals_r. Does this mean I have like a lava or water brush that goes past a brush to the outside, like I think it does or does it mean something else? How can I fix this problem? I used DuBSP and WorldCraft to compule this map. 
No, You're Probably 
thinking of the "Mixed face contents ..." warning/error. The warning you mention usually doesn't cause any problem and I've actually never seen a good explanation of it.

Also, having lava/water/whatnot sticking out into the void doesn't matter at all; it's removed (filled) by the compiler if the map is properly sealed (no leaks). 
New portal was clipped away errors can occur where there's overly complex brushwork in a place; it's like the compiler says, "I give up" and chucks the whole thing.

I had that with a couple of tunnels in FC1M2 - so bad were they, I couldn't vis the damn thing. I had to rip out the offending walls and redo them with simpler brushwork. 
Oh Ok That Makes Sense 
Thx I know why I get that problem now. I made a room with like 5 cylinders, 16 sided each with all sorts of decorative carvings in them, something like a few hundred brushes in one scene from the carving alone. Thx for the help! 
Carving is evil, and will lead to many erros in your map. When splitting up brushes, always use the clipping tool. 
New Portal Was Clipped Away In CutNodePortals_r 
Try this link for a few more suggestions 
Interuptable Vis Program 
I believe that on one thread there was a discussion about a Q1 vis program that you could stop and restart, saving intermediate results. I need such a program to process a map that is taking a very long time to vis. 
That Would Be Very Nice... 
I wonder if it's real, or in mid-development/planning... 
I Think It Was Just Some Programmer's Dream. 
like maybe tyrann or aquire. 
No It Actually Existed 
I think Aguire was giving them out to people in the last coagula contest; copies of a vis program that would save progress in the event of accidental shut down (like a powercut, crash or whatnot).. enabling resume next time the program ran. 
Interuptable Vis 
Couldn't you just nice/prioritize it down the point of it being virtually paused? You'd have to leave your computer on, but that's usually not an issue. 
You'd have to leave your computer on, but that's usually not an issue.

Why else would you want to stop & resume it? :S 
That Vis Thingie 
I believe Bengt Jardrup's latest vis update has a safe feature which will start at the last save point if you stop in the middle. I'm not sure though, I thought I saw that on the vis update text on his webpage. 
I can't wait that long. 
Windoze ME 
...or my internet access manager has memory leaks. I run a clean PC with no background tasks but that still isn't enough on top of 3/4gig of RAM. I have to restart way too much. My map needs days to vis.

Yea, I know a Q1 map shouldn't need so long to vis but I'd like to try the sledgehammer first. I'm tired of this map and want to move on 
Restart Of Vis 
Yes aguirRe made his vis autosave some time ago.
It will restart from the last savepoint if the vis is stopped. A really usefull thing if you have to break operation in the middle of a long vis.

Get it here: 
What Hrimfaxi Said 
The AutoSave feature was added in the RVis 2.19 version in July. If you check out the readmes you might find other useful tools/features as well ...

Scragbait: Running Win9x/Me with more than 512MB can be problematic. It's then recommended to set a max limit for the VCache in the system.ini file:

I can't wait that long.

Come again? Wait for what? 
Sorry Xen 
I meant to respond to Pushplay but misread it as coming from you. I now see the context of his comment - to run vis in background and keep using machine as normal. I meant that I couldn't wait between sessions of using my machine to leave it running vis only. I shouldn't post while sleepy.

aguiRe - Thanks for reply. I'll definately add those lines to my system.ini and I look forward to getting my insane map vised (but it will take days.) 
And... will be worth it =) 
Do I remember vising a previous map for you that took something like 60 hours?

Anyway, I have a second computer that I can tie up for a couple of days for you if you want. 
What PC 
What PC do you have? Surely it doesnt take that long? 
Windows ME leaks like a caulender. I used to use it so I know that you can put up with it if you want. But it's going to be a couple years before a new windows comes out, and I'm sure XP will save you at least a hundred and fifty dollars of headache between now and then. 
My PC 
I just can't not abuse the Quake engine. My latest map is brutal compared to Scragbait's Estate but like SBE and a mother's ugly kid, I've grown somewhat attached to it in it's current state. Like the ugly kid too, I want to kick it out of the house rather then reform it.

I have a decent machine Asus P4T MB with Intel 1.2GHz P4 CPU. There's 3/4Gig on board so it should be up to the job. I'm embarrased to say that 4 days later, the map was at 87%.

I should probably switch to XP (not relating this to vis, BTW) and cough up the $150 or so Cdn to get it. My buddy really saw his Radeon 8500 performance take a jump. Are there happy Radeon (mine is 7200) equiped, XP OSed, FitzQuakers out there? I already went through Q1 failure with updated drivers so I've stayed put with older ones. I'm also somewhat put off by the gadgets and visual noisiness of XP but I guess, like ME, you can't hunt those things down and return to a less cluttered desktop and cut down on background CPU distractions. My kit now boots fast and clean. I just added aguiRe's line to my system.ini so see how that goes.

Mike. Thanks for the offer. I can send you the source files and you can shake your head at this thing if you like but no pressure. I'm somewhat hopeful that the interuptable vis program does exist. 
I meant you can hunt these things down. Typo. Those evil things like PC Health, System Restore and that atrocious Instant Spammer. 
I'm somewhat hopeful that the interuptable vis program does exist.

It has been established that it does indeed exist. You can grab it from here:

And hurry up with that map! :D 
Would it be possible for me to get the zipped map+wad? I'm always interested in large, complex or troublesome maps to test my tools. 
RPG And AquiRe 
RPG - You're right. I grabbed it many posts back. I'm running it now. Saw that typo and didn't want to look dumb yet again by reposting another correction. I'll learn to proof my stuff better - maybe.

aguiRe - I'll send you the files. I'm sure it will look interesting from a technical standpoint. I can send you my WC file as well since the abundant visgroups will help you sift through the mess. 
Zipped Map+Wad 
should be enough for now, thanks. If I need the rmf I'll let you know.

Btw, is your WinMe system running more stable now or do you still have problems? You might consider upgrading to Win2K/XP since they are far more stable than any Win9x hybrid.

Especially since you seem to have the hardware for it ... 
I haven't seen my Internet Access Manager act up since adding that line. I haven't spent too long on the machine since editing the system.ini but my initial impressions are good. 
The offer is still there.

mikewoodham -at- msn -dot- com

Probably need the .wad as well if it is not standard. 
Just wondering, have you tried sending me the zip yet or have you been busy? 
Is your email working? Tried twice but it bounced. Only message is that delivery failed. I also double checked your email by looking at a FMB readme - was the same as posted here.

I'll try again Sunday night. 
I Sent Mike A Copy 
last night and so far it hasn't bounced. 
Thanks. Your notes looked interesting: I'll have to try your utils, especially Light. 
Scragbait / AguirRe 

Didn't get far I'm afraid - too many efrags or Fitzquake constantly crashes at the point of loading.

I don't have any other version of Quake loaded now so I'm at a dead end already.

What do you mean? I also got the warning "Too many efrags" (probably torches partly inside brushes), but that shouldn't cause any engine crash AFAIK.

I've successfully rebuilt (qbsp, fastvis & fastlight) using my tools and loaded the bsp into FitzQuake 0.65/0.75 and even GLQuake without other problems than the efrags warning.

You'll need more than 16 MB heap in GQ though, add -heapsize 32768 to the command line. I think FQ default takes 32 MB so it should be fine.

What tools and versions did you use to build the bsp? If the map leaks, you'll probably get problems loading the bsp into some engines. 
I just tried again and can see that after the too many frags message, there is a 'got a nan velocity on monster_army' message.

I then get a nicely controlled crash of Fitzquake with what I am sure is an honest and genuine apology from Windows -

"Fitzquake.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience."


Did you see an extremely long brush that exceeded the world boundary when you first opened the .map?

I am using the utils from your site, although I have only run qbsp so far as I wanted a quick look around. 
I have no problems loading the bsp, whether directly from tx/treeqbsp or after fastvis/light. I've seen someone else here also having problems with that float error (nan velocity) in FQ, maybe metlslime has some suggestions?

Did you build directly from the command line or from within the editor (whichever you're using)? Maybe your editor has changed some brushwork without telling you?

I built directly from command line and that works fine. I've also loaded the map into my editor (QuArK) and built from there but then I've had some problems with a warped brush and hull 1/2 leaks. It's pretty slow to compile, too, about seven minutes on a 1.7 GHz.

I haven't seen any huge brushes in the editor, but there is a couple of duplicate planes in the map file that QuArK (and compiler) just reports and discards. I just made some tests sealing off some messy brushwork and converting objects into func_walls to see how much could be gained from that, nothing major so far.

I've also been running a hefty vis session that so far has reached about 72% in about 62 hours (estimated total 190 hours, great). This map is a vis bitch ...

If you wish, we could take the discussion off-board. 
OK I'll e-mail you with a little bit more detail. But I am off to Valencia in a couple of hours (to watch Cirque du Soliel, which has nothing to do with Quake) and wont be back until Saturday.

I hope it will be OK with you if I come back to you then. Thanks. 
What Have I Unleased? 
The map from hell.

Mike - Are you using the latest patched version of Quake itself? 1.08, I think. Perhaps that doesn't matter if running another engine like GLQuake or FitzQuake.

I have been able to compile and run but enemies become invisable later in the game. I'm running it on a Radeon. Don't know if your display card and driver could be contributing to the crash. 
Just Fitzquake. AguirRe's utilities. Radeon9700 Pro. Bsp Editor. WinXP. P4 2M, 1G Ram. Nothing unusual? 
Tyrlight Output Of Lit Files 
I want to create lit files for my existing maps, already have the lits from fuhquake. Can someone create a tutorial on how to do this? I just get lots of errors when I try with tyrlight.

Did you receive my last emails Dec 11th? 
this program, called Onelight, extracts the coloured light information from a .bsp file and makes a .lit for you 
Oh, Unless You Meant 
you wanted to automatically generate .lit files... there's a program that gives you coloured light based on the colour values of the textures nearest to each light

that gives pretty poor results though, and I've forgotten what the program is called :) 
Got The Emails 
I sent you an email that got sent back to be for some reason. Is your Realbox full? I'm going to take your suggestions with your light program and your other tools once I've tidied the map some more.

I've been cleaning up my brushwork in the cliffs. It's slow going but should help somewhat.

I sent an email with this question. Here goes:

Real quick question that I hope you can help me with. I'm filling in voids
and cleaning my brushwork. What would be the better approach to constructing
a wall of brushes. Would it be:

1) Use triangular brushes (as viewed from above) to create the bank. This
would require more brushes but I assume that I would then end up telling BSP
how I want the vertices generated.


2) Use polygonal brushes. There would be fewer brushes but BSP would
generate the vertices with the possibility that more triangles may be
generated on the face then if I stuck with option 1.

These brushes have straight vertical walls. No fancy clipping.

Just curious. 
The email above was posted by Scragbait, not aquiRe. I was going to make aquiRe the title line.

No wonder my maps suck if I can't pay attention to details. 
I've sent you an alternative email address, please re-send your previous email(s) and I'll try to answer your questions. Sorry for the inconvenience. 
Lit Files 
I want to take my old maps and use quark to add colored lighting as exported lit files. I don't think qip engine supports bsp 30. I have tyrlight to export the lit files. Any more info needed?

Do you still have trouble sending me email or are you just too busy? 
Re: #854, #861

What errors are you getting from TyrLite? 
Re: #858

Triangular is definately better.
Trust me, I know ;-) 
people are popping out of the woodwork last few days here... Fribbles posts, then Peej, and now Tyrann! I expect to see ZTN, Headshot, Retinal, Escher and all that old school crew next... 
are you sure? I noticed in Scragbait's map that he'd used triangular shapes in some rock formations and the way they met in very thin and pointy brush corners made me think that qbsp might not like that.

Also, more brushes means more faces to have possible alignment errors in. My spontaneous recommendation would be less brushes are less problems, at least if everything's kept on-grid.

The only obvious risk is that you hit the face limit on the brushes (especially in hulls 1/2), but with modern compilers that shouldn't really be a problem.

Well, you're the more experienced mapper, so I'll take your word for it.

Scragbait: does this answer your question? 
As The Corps... 
What would be the easy-ist way, to change the
sequence tex between the four episodes.
I tried several times in client.qc but this does not seem to work.
Sometimes there is only {WrtiteScript MSG}
Sometimes there is WriteString (MSG_ALL, "As the corpse of the monstrous entity\nChthon

Although I changeds all the letters in the same account, it won't give a ridge.

Or should I make a Quark.qme script? 
did you compile it? 
Map Not Compiled Yet 
I'm away from my main box. I'm still cleaning up my map file there. I'll continue in the new year. aguiRe's and Tyrann's answers contradict. I'll choose in a discetionary manor between the two options. I know that distorted (pointy, thin, etc.) triangles are undesirable for Finite Element Analysis (stress, thermal, fluid flow analysis) but I'm not sure if it matters for rendering or compiling. I think it could go either way. 
Would you be interested to know that my poor P4 has been churning on your e2m1a map for 147 hours (that's six days) straight now and has only reached 82.5%?

To make me happy, RVis merrily suggests that it'll be just another 185 hours before it's done ...

When you have a spiffy new map version, please let me know.

Also, follow Tyrann's advice regarding the brush shapes. I recall him having some problems with his large [yet] unreleased idbase map some time ago. I'll bet he tried a few things to make qbsp feel better then ... 
Editing the end-of-episode text in CLIENT.QC, then compiling into a PROGS.DAT, is the only way to change that text (which should be in a line like WriteString (MSG_ALL, "End of episode text\ngoes here");

However, (at least in the QC editor I use) the text must be on one line. Line breaks in the text string itself are represented by \n - maybe that's your problem. It may be that your text is on multiple lines, and that's breaking your compiler. 
Nailgun Ogre...? 
anyone have nailgun ogre QC that I can borrow for a Q1SP ?
I tried the TUT on inside3d but the ogre would
only fire one nail at a time, and When I tried to make him fire more, he just shot them all at once :(
Basically, I didn't want to go and outright steal someone's code, I wanted to ask first, and or code It myself, but I kinda ran into a wall on this.

Also, are the Zerstorer ppl. still around?
would they mind If I borrowed their chainsaw code/mdl? Full credits would be in the Text of course, how would I contact them? Or does anyone know of a chainsaw TUT somewhere? I think "Street Rage Quake" had a chainsaw but hmmm...

the game will only break when a line is too long and takes more than a screen to write.
but line breaks should cause any trouble... i've written a few end game texts and i've never had much problem with them. 
As The Editorwriter's Corps... 
I changed the text in exact the same count on letters and slashes.
Don't know what it is, had a hard time inding the right *.qc because some only mention

But when I did, I got a SIGSEV failure.

And Jimbo, look at
There is a convertion for the nail org, although you have to councel out. 
Mac VIS/Light/BSP? 
Is there by chance any of these tools for Mac? Preferably OS X, but if OS 9... I searched, can't find anything, but perhaps there is something lurking about. My Powerbook (867) would compile faster than my PC (150) so... 
You can find most of the golden oldie QC files at I don't know if nail gun ogre is there, but most modifications that you would care to make can be done with a simple adjustment of some pre-existing design. For instance, my 'crotch sniffing' patch (the Ogres seem to like that one) is derived from the 'crouch' patch source.

As for Zer, I don't know; there is a bit of paranoia it seems in their copyright protection statement(so long as you are just suing my ass, and not the rest of me, I don't care). I have seen the chaingun in several mods though. For some qc patch work that would make for the basis of a complete episode, try Custent, I believe you can find it linked on Fat Controller's sight, and Nehahra has good source code, written in an interesting Pascal hybrid. Source of Evil sounded interesting in regards to its qc, but the download links from Tronyn's site do not function. 
Lit Files And Tyrlight 
I just had the files in the wrong directory, quark you have to your files in tmpquark. Quark won't compile it without a permission error. So, I use a batch file and still didn't work. I just had to change a bunch of lights at once. Finally worked, now the tough task of creatively lightning this older level. More questions...

Can the q3a tool bspc decompile quake1 maps? Because bsp2map, won't decompile scorn and other levels because of errors. Is mike reed still around? I'd love to give "crawling chaos" and scorn a modern look as an experience in mapping.

Also, I have new texture that comes off the wallpaper I made, if anyone's interested. I have the original PCD file, so I can remove the text.

Finally looking for mappers for ultimate deathmatch mod for quake. Mapping functions will be developed more, if someone is willing to map for it. I'll work with a mapper to develop it's mapping standards. If you can just convert a map DM or spq format, that's good. For now, just looking for interest.

decompilation of maps won't give you much to work with or learn from. you'll just have a really messy .map file. 
Yes, bspc does work, to an extent. You can't exactly recompile from it without errors though (unless the original is really simple). Normally only useful for figuring out entity setups.. or finding secrets n stuff.

About "Crawling Chaos"... it's author is now the admin of this site, so you might want to consider asking him about it. 
Yes, bspc does work, to an extent. You can't exactly recompile from it without errors though (unless the original is really simple). Normally only useful for figuring out entity setups.. or finding secrets n stuff.

About "Crawling Chaos"... it's author is now the admin of this site, so you might want to consider asking him about it. 
I clicked once & didn't refresh or anything... hm. 
QBSP Error! CutNodePortals_r:new Portal Was Clipped Away 
Ok, this is an Quake BSP error message people have been getting since time began, but I've never heard a helpful explanation of it.

Basically what happens is that I build something nice, my brushwork seems tidy, it's all on the grid and all convex. All good. Then I compile and I get that bastard message.

I haven't noticed any major problems with the resulting bsps but sometimes it seems to fuck up brushes ever so slightly and causes very troublesome leaks as a result.

Can any of you compiler guys explain this error and/or know a solution to the problem?

I have been using Worldcraft exporting to map then wqbsp 1.65 by Ken Alverston 
I found a chainsaw weapon in the gamers archive,
but it does wierd stuff, specifically, the .mdl
is screwed up in normal glquake and some ports,
It works fine in Telejano but fitzquake makes it appear odd, like some of the vertexes were not where they should be,
any suggestions? 
May I suggest that you take a look at the tools found at ?

There are enhancements, too numerous to mention, to the qbsp/vis/light tools.

As for the CutNodePortals_r warning, AFAIK you can safely ignore it. I've never seen it having any relationship with any real problem. 
Maybe Thanbsp Is In Order 
which removes error messages, so as far as I know, everything is hunky dory :)

I'll check out your tools. I had actually seen them before and was planning to try them out but hadn't gotten around to it. Does you bsp support worldcraft exported maps? I think WC does something funny with normals and some textures can end up the wrong way around (particularly on 45 degree slanted stuff.) 
You Can Use 
the tools together with any editor that can produce vanilla Q1 map files and they also support QuArK ETP format. With ConvMap, you can convert Q2 maps into Q1 if your editor produces that format (e.g. GtkRadiant).

As for the texture axis issue, I think that those who prefer WC+TreeQBSP always use the "-oldaxis" option. Using TxQBSP, there is only one variant and AFAIK, it works as it should with WC.

I personally prefer Tx because it's more flexible and it has all the important features of Tree. Both compilers produce near identical results on any map.

They have opposite default values for watervis though (backwards compatibility), Tree has it default off and Tx default on. Both can be switched either way, of course.

Both also have a multitude of options; run the compilers without parameters and they will print out a brief explanation. The rest is in the readmes.

Let me know if you run into problems. 
I looked at the weapons listing gamers has for Quake QC and there are several chainsaws listed. If you narrow down the file name, I'll be glad to take a look at it and see if I can clean it up for you. It could be a simple matter of turning some normals around. was the one that I tried,
Mainly because it had source included,
I didn't want to try and decompile something. 
Begining Mapping 
#880 posted by xen [] on 2003/12/24 21:10:47
>Yes, bspc does work, to an extent. You can't exactly recompile from it without errors though (unless the original is really simple). Normally only useful for figuring out entity setups.. or finding secrets n stuff.

Nope, I decompiled scorn with no trouble. Next, I recompiled with treeqbsp, rvis, and tylite with no problems, worked flawlessly. Just took four hours total with my dino p200.

>About "Crawling Chaos"... it's author is now the admin of this site, so you might want to consider asking him about it.

I sent him an email weeks ago, no responce.

I'm going to add eye candy to scorn and more rooms for the mapping experience... I'm not used to mapping in 3d, so this is a pain. For now, i'm re-lighting elmdm5(elmmagi series dm maps). I keep getting disoriented and changing the wrong lights, using the 3D window and normal xy and xz windows. Any tips?

Chain Sores 
I used the Zerst�rer chainsaw in OUM, mentioned that it came from that mod. That seems to have saved me from being assailed by Psycho Copyright Lawyers From Hell.

There was another chainsaw mod I saw where you could climb walls with it, but I didn't use that since it wasn't as good looking. 'Sides, climbing walls would've scrozzled the levels. 
Correction - To Wazat 
That came out wrong. When you view the 3D window in quark. The light entity shown has no depth perception. They look the same size no matter how far or how close you are to them. I'm having to look at all three window at once to find the right location to the light. I keep missing the target and changing the wrong light. Any tips as to how to nav better?

I sent him an email weeks ago, no responce.

Uh, I hardly think that December 23rd qualifies as "weeks ago." Anyway, be patient and you'll get a reply. 
In the fast paced mapping world, days are weeks and every second counts! 
...nice colour scampie 
I just got back from me mum's birthday dinner. I'm going to work on it tonight. No biggie. Model making (and correcting) and texturing I consider fun. Animation, however, makes me cry like a wee little girl.

FC, that is a good sign, indeed. Perhaps, the fellows who made Zer~ no longer have a bulldog lawyer on retainer to sniff us rebellious, retrobate modders out for our pernicious tomfoolery. 
thanks, thought it was time for a change. 
Going Native 
I was rebuilding the model from scratch, rebuilding each frame as a seperate asc just to ensure no incapatabilaties between them (though I have a feeling the problem may be in the qc compatabilaty , I had the same problem with Fitz that you reported). The skin is in a non standard size for plain modelgen, and it would be no problem in QpenQuartz but I no longer maintain Linux or Cygwin on my system and the OpenQuartz utilities need the libpng.2.1.dll to function. Anyone know of an easier solution than extracting the .dll from a Cygwin build? 
Just to save time I built the mdl file with a nuetral skin and with the original id tools, and the same problems persist.

I checked out the .qc files to see if it was worth recompiling them (the file dates april 97 which makes me assume the progs.dat is out of date) but there are some problems in the naming convention. It is used as a replacement for the axe, and it keeps the IT_Axe naming convention in the player.qc file, but renames the mdl file v_axe, and in the weapons.qc the functionality for it is labeled fire_axe.
Mind, if the original programmer kept this consistent, it is not a problem in and of its self, but I have not spotted the necessary linkage between the model, postional name, and weapon function that would have to be there to make it function normally.

I'm just going to go ahead and recompile it as is and see what happens. 
Sent Many Messages 
#892 posted by metlslime [] on
"Uh, I hardly think that December 23rd qualifies as "weeks ago." Anyway, be patient and you'll get a reply."

Actually, i'v sent a few over the last few years that I recall, Might have been bad adresses and/or got lost in cyberspace. Too bad you missed my raves about that level.

Okay, This Is What I Can Report 
The source code for that chain saw is good code. All the functionality connects as it should, and the gib spray code the programmer added is pretty sweet. The fact he was doing arm positioning back in early 1997 is impressive.

I recompiled it adding the player.qc file and weapons.qc to a clean version of v106qc, and these are the results using both the mdl that came with it, and my rebuild:

Unmodified (software) Quake -- It works
Telejano -- It works
Dark Places -- It works
Tenebrae -- It works
FitzQuake -- Chokes on it like something obscene
GLQuake -- boinked beyond belief

The only other one I would bother to look into is Tomaz Clean Source; the executables derived from it work so it should as well.
It is just a peculiarity of the way GLQuake reads model files. I believe a solution to this problem was posted over at QuakeC Extreme ( so I'll check into that sometime.

There are two other possibilaties -- include an executable with your project. I would personally ask Tei if its okay, he is pretty flexible, or, use FC's OUM as a source. Abuse his generosity for all it is worth. Take his turrent code while you are at it </;-)

Personally I like that chain saw source code you brought to my attention. The next step I'm going to take with it is to borrow my neighbor's Black'n'Decker and make a high polyversion for my darkplaces mod. 
Broken In Glquake 
One thing you might wanna try if it's looking all messed up in glquake, but working in other engines, is the mesh files(assuming you haven't already).

Glquake builds mesh files of quake models once, and saves them in moddir/glquake(and/or id1/glquake). Most modern engines no longer do this, as it causes problems if you change the model or load a different model with the same name. Instead they build the meshes from scratch each time you run it, as it's fairly fast.

So, I'd recommend deleting your glquake folders in both id1 and the mod directory. It is important to delete the id1 copy, as mods will look for meshes in there, even if the mod changes the model that mesh corresponds to. Don't worry about deleting anything important, all this stuff will be rebuilt automatically. 
Yeah, So 
where do you go for beta testing?
does anyone here still betatest q1sp maps? 
of course people still beta test q1sp maps.

Either ask some of your buddys here, openly ask for people to mail you if their interested, just put the beta up and link it for anyone to grab (screenshot thread, at least back on Qmap, used to double as the beta testing thread too so that'd be the place to do it), or hop on IRC, go to in #terrafusion and ask some of us to quit being losers and beta test your damn map. Plenty of options.

Also, I'd beta test your map if you want, just shoot me an email or something. 
Hardly Dare To Ask... 
Great, I was bizzy with Starlight21.
He tested my first 5 levels, and did a great job! Sure he did.
I have the levels ending on e1m2.
So ready to send you. If you can have some Old School Q1 ragging? 
Thanks guys,
Deleting the meshes didn't work for Fitzquake, it still died, normal glquake worked though.

I may use this version of the saw anyway,
looks like it is easier to integrate into
my current codebase than the Zer/OUM saw.
If I rename the .mdl (in code and file) it shouldn't conflict with the axe mdl meshes. 
Hey Guys... 
If you have a repeatable bug (crash or otherwise) in fitzquake, i'd love to hear about it. Send me an email if you can. 
What Is It With 
sections of a brush being transparent for apparently no reason at all?

my fix is to put a same sized, same textures brush as func_illusionary but it's just a hack, really... 
Certainly. I haven't had a chance to test things since Friday, but I would suspect the source of the error is that FitzQuake is not allowing an override for the chainsaw uses the same .mdl name as the axe.

I apologize that I am not as familiar with your code base as I should be given the many bug fixes you have implemented for the Quake Source.

If I get some free time later in the week, I'll test this out further and e-mail what I find and any fixes that I may come up with. 
I still have problems with FQ 0.75 aborting with "Bad surface extents" although the readme says that it's fixed. Also, I've also had rare aborts with something lika "Texture is not 16 aligned". 
Necros - I Test SPQ1 
I've got lots of experience. I'm available for testing in early January. 
Cleaner map will come in January. I feel sorry for your P4 chewing the gristle that is my map. What I've done so far is neater and internal voids are being filled in.

Distrans - Good to see you posting. Know that I'm fighting the good battle to see E2M1a compiled. 
My P4 didn't know what it volunteered for; it's currently at 98.27% after nearly 299 hours with an estimate of another 35. That's 12 days straight over a period of 19 days real time. A new record for me at least.

Scrag, don't worry, I do it mostly to see if it's actually going to finish and to test my tools. Just let me know when you have a new version ready and we'll take it from there. 
the only case of "bad surface extents" i fixed is when it's caused by a missing sky or water texture in the bsp file.

As for the "not 16 aligned" message, i'll look into that when i get home (i'm on vacation currently.) 
awesome, gimme your email and i'll shoot a message off to you around that time. 
check your mail man, just sent you a bunch of comments and suggestions.

Madfox: Sorry I haven't gotten back to you yet, I'll peek at your map really soon. 
i didn't get the email.
did you send it to either or 
Phait, You Wanted Mac OS Compile Tools? 
this site should have them: 
Thank you very very very much! :) 
...Does anyone know how to get GtkRadiant 1.4.0 working for quake mapping... I already read the Tuts by Tig and Necros (thanks a lot guys) but they're both for version 1.2... Anyone has a clue? I'm a complete newbie, so the question could be very stupid..... 
Got It! 
thanks for the awesome feedback, Scampie! 
Your map finally finished vising:

---- Vis 2.22 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup

File: e2m1a.bsp
6117 portalleafs
22174 numportals
Loading state file: e2m1a.vis
testlevel = 4

average leafs visible: 552
max leafs visible: 2336 near (-2885 -1736 1184)
c_chains: 2789094431
visdatasize: 1169545 compressed from 4679505

Elapsed time : 5h 45m
Session time : 346h 1m

The bsp actually works, too (at least in FQ). Max wpoly is about 3500 near the power plant tower (the coordinates above).

I sincerely hope that you can reduce the fullvis time from its current 14 days ... 
I may be doing something wrong, but how can I put in a parameter for the BSP program in Worldcraft 1.6? I've got 4 different BSP's: WC's, Tyr's, Tree and W. I'm having the problem with 45 degree angle texture misalignments. I've tried the paramter under Tools/Options/ and in the BSP path field... with some BSP programs it throws an error in the process window and continues to compile, in some it just builds with no error.

Or am I just better off BSP'ing manually? I had fixed this issue a long time ago, but I think it may have been a modded .FGD actually. Also, is there a certain FGD you would suggest getting that I may be better off with regardless? 
dont use the worldcraft process window, just open a dos window (start->run->command (or cmd if running 2000/XP) and compile from there.

and -alternateaxis is probably what you want. as long as the texture is aligned in wc it will show up fine w/that 
Oh, And... 
fgds shouldnt really mean anything to your compiling other than where items are placed, use czg's it has fixed item-offset bugs iirc: 
Texture Mess 
Have a Q1map, which makes account of :
prepare used textures => 26 textures
Compiling it makes account of 29 textures.
Did'nt use animated textures.

What happened?
Pretty queer, because the map is 1.87Mb and won't run for 1.89Mb

Grandwoofer, help! 
Bsp Build With Treeqbsp 
Building hulls sequentially...
Processing hull 0...
------ Brush_LoadEntity ------
WARNING: Couldn't create brush on line 602 with 6 faces, metal2_8
WARNING: Couldn't create brush on line 593 with 5 faces, metal2_8
731 brushes read

Has anyone encountered this before? How to find and fix this. Occurred on elmdm5.

Open the map file back into your editor.. it should remove the dodgy brushes. Resave and recompile. Note it's the file with the '.map' extension you want, not the editor-specific one like .rmf/.qle or whatever. 
Or If It Doesn't... 
if you use gtkradiant: edit the .map file in edit or notepad or whatever, go to line 602, (or 593 as well) and find out what brush # it is.
now go in gtkr, and use the search for brush and search for the brush #. then you can delete it and remake it or whatever you chose to do.

otherwise, if you don't use gtkr, and can't find it in the editor you DO use, simply delete the entire reference to the brush in the .map file manually, then compile and find out what you took out. 
replace the texture (metal2_8) to something obvious so you can delete it in your editor (what ive done, esp in areas with lots of brushes) 
You've got mail 
Map Compile In Elmdm5 
Thanks for the info. I use quark, not interested in GTKR until it fully supports q1 maps, too much hassle. I'll stick with quark's one click loading. FYI, ELMDM5 is simple map, yet lot of fun to play. Quark wouldn't let me use groups with the bsp file. So, I had to decompile and recompiled it, just over 20 mins to compile.

I found that when I turn off "write float coords" in options, it causes a bunch of errors. Any suggestions how to configure quark to int coords without errors?

Also, decompiling and recompiling the map added 764 new faces, yuck. I'm learning quite a bit about it's put together. Almost finished completely relighting with tylite and adding some eye candy. Not ready to make a map yet.

if you already have a map in there, then turn off floating point, quark simply rounds all the coordinates to the nearest integer. so you get lots of hairline fractures and offset brushes.

aguire made a pretty cool program that attempts to correct most of the problems that you get from converting floating point to integer coordinate maps. it's not completly succesful -- you'll still need to fix a few brushes, but for the most part, it saves tons of time. 
Dilvish - Full_bright Query From Last Year 
I don't know if you are still having a problem with fullbrights but you can get rid of them in TexMex 3.4:

1. uncheck Use Full Brites in the Preferences/Workspace tab

2. import the .wad file

3. select the texture with the fullbrights

4. click the Adjust Brightness button, click Remove Brites, click apply

Repeat for all necessary textures. Save .wad.

I've used this on David Gurrea's rock textures -it's fast, 40 textures took me 2 minutes to convert i.e. it's as fast as you can click. 
Non Solid 
I was trying to make a map but all of a sudden many of the entities became nonsolid, buttons, doors e.t.c. You can walk right through them. There has been no warning from the qbsp program.
Does anyone know why this happenss. 
Q1 Clipping Errors 
If you're having trouble with clipping errors in your Q1 map (player walking/falling through solid brushes), you might be interested in the following procedure.

Compile the map with one of my compilers ( and add the options "-solid" and "-hull 1". The first one just disables all liquid brushes and makes the sky solid and the second makes the player clipping hull visible. The build time will probably be longer than usual.

Then load the bsp into an engine, turn on gl_clear 1 in the console and noclip around in the map. Don't worry if the map looks a bit different than usual, all brushes are expanded a bit so it will look rather cramped at places.

If you notice something that looks like a HOM effect, then that area is likely to have clipping errors. After identifying the problems spots, inspect those areas carefully in the editor. There are probably some brush misalignments there. When the HOM effect disappears, the brushes are OK. 
When will you add the negative lights support in your light tool? 
Clipping Errors 
I'll have to give this another try when I get my editor back up and running.

Note that 'gl_clear 1' will turn off the HOM effect and you'll just see a solid colour instead (red in normal GL Quake, void grey in FitzQuake/TyrQuake) 
As you already know, I've had this option for quite some time but I just discovered a couple of days ago this connection with clipping errors.

Normally one has to tediously move around in the map bumping every wall to discover the nasty clipping errors. This really helps in that process.

I must point out though that there could still be clipping errors even if there is no HOM, so it's no Magic Bullet.

PuLSaR: Sorry, no current plans on Antilights. 
could this be used to find spots where a player will get stuck on the joints of a 45� ramp? 
It Might 
because one big reason for clipping errors is two or more brushes that meet in a non-axial manner and that are also not aligned properly.

I'm right now trying to use this "feature" on a large number of maps that I've had problems with to see how it can help finding spots that the compiler apparently has some difficulties to handle.

Typical causes are very tiny brush gaps, overlaps or faces, either directly on the proposed brush or in an adjacent one. Most of the time it's in a non-axial junction.

But as I mentioned above, it doesn't catch all cases and it's certainly no guarantee that there is an obvious problem spot where the HOM is found.

Still, I find it a major help in tracking down these evil map-traps. 
Float Coords In Quark 
#935 posted by necros
>if you already have a map in there, then turn off floating point, quark simply rounds all the coordinates to the nearest integer. so you get lots of hairline fractures and offset brushes.

Thanks all, this will help.

> aguire made a pretty cool program that attempts to correct most of the problems that you get from converting floating point to integer coordinate maps. it's not completly succesful -- you'll still need to fix a few brushes, but for the most part, it saves tons of time.

I didn't see it on:

Where is it?

It's The One Called ConvMap 
It has several conversion/fixup modes, but its original purpose was what necros mentioned; to convert a float map into an integer one with as little accuracy loss as possible. Check out the readme for details.

But if you use QuArK, I'd recommend that you don't disable float coords in map file, you'll just end up in Qoole hell. Load the decompiled map file into QuArK, roll up your sleeves and start the repair job (it might take a while).

Also, notice that there are many compiler warnings that you can safely ignore. 
Clipping Errors Follow-Up 
I've now gone through a lot of maps armed with the -solid and -hull 1 options, looking for HOMs and thereby clipping errors. I find it very useful because there are normally not so many of them, so you can easily go through them one by one, checking if they're worth fixing.

Some maps can't be built this way right now; when loading the bsp, the engine aborts with a cross connected doors error. I suspect it to be two normally separated doors that melts together in hull 1.

In the next version of my compilers, I hope to have an option -noents that removes all entities from the map except world and players. This takes care of the door problem and furthermore, it makes it a lot easier and faster to navigate the map (especially a big one).

No more worrying about monsters chasing your tail, triggers that set off in your face or you accidentally stumbling into a teleporter or change_level portal. Freedom at last ...

Checking the map visually in hulls 1/2 also has another unexpected bonus. If your map is big and you're close to the max clipnode limit (32767), you might find that large parts of the map are not filled in hulls 1/2 due to brushes melting together.

With some simple modifications, you might be able to fill those areas and thus lowering the # clipnodes significantly without changing the appearance at all. 
i'm still not quite clear on what it means to compile with the hull1 or whatever... how does that relate to clipping?
I Was Afraid That 
someone would ask ...

Every Q1 map has three hulls 0-2. Hull 0 is what you build in the editor and is normally what you see in-game. This visual hull is not what the player (or other entities) is "clipped" against, i.e. checked for collision so you can "feel" the wall.

This is due to speed reasons, it's easy to clip a point sized (infinitely small) entity like a rocket against hull 0, but for bigger entities like the player, there is a bounding box around it that defines its volume in space. When Q1 was made in '96, it was probably considered too processing consuming to clip the entire bounding box against hull 0 in the game engine so another solution was made.

If the qbsp compiler would, instead of just building hull 0, automatically build two other hulls (1 and 2) by expanding all brushes in hull 0 outwards the same distance as the bounding box for player or shambler sized entities, it would be much easier for the game engine to clip the bigger entities. It then only has to clip the mid-point of the bounding box against one of the other hulls to see if they collide. This is the same thing as clipping a point sized entity against hull 0.

So each time you look at the compiler output, you'll see something like Processing hull # three times. This is when the compiler builds your map, first the normal visible hull, then automatically generating hulls 1/2 by expanding the brushes in hull 0. The end result is three separate hulls in each bsp that the engine will load and use while playing.

What I've done via the -hull # option is to trick the compiler to build hull 0 the same way as it does for the other hulls, by expanding the brushes a bit, thus making one of the other hulls "visible". First I did this for educational purposes, to better understand how a bsp is built and, like you, get a clearer picture of what these other strange hulls were.

I didn't know then that by inspecting the map in the shape of one of the other hulls, you might use certain visual anomalies (like HOMs) to identify areas with problems. After identifying the area, you just make a closer inspection of that area in the editor and hopefully find the cause of the problem (typically some kind of brush misalignment).

If all this still seems confusing, just build one of your own maps (preferrably a small one) using the -solid and -hull 1 options and load the bsp into an engine and I'll think you'll understand better. 
thanks for the explanation!
very useful :) 
i just tried hull 1 thingy on my map! oh my! it looked like bloated dungeon of fat evile! :) it was funny :)
and it's indeed useful, ispecially when you're not sure if player is able to get into some area, this option helps very much.
yet i've found the reason of weird clipping behaviour in some place thanks to this.

thanks again, bengt :) 
i just tried hull 1 thingy on my map! oh my! it looked like bloated dungeon of fat evile! :) it was funny :)

Yeah but what did it look like *with* the hull 1 option? ;-p 
If you think your map looked fat evile in hull 1, try hull 2 instead. Sometimes, the whole map melts together into a real mess ...

Fixing things in hull 2 only helps shamblers and the like, not as important as the player.

There is an interesting thing regarding the various entity sizes. I have many times noticed that scrags and spawn seem to be able to sometimes move through solids, very annoying when fighting them.

I haven't confirmed this, but could it be that they are in fact point sized entities, so the smallest crack between walls will let them through? Or is there another reason? 
i've noticed the scrag problem myself. it would happen sometimes in nesp09, in the underground lava cavern. the scrags would spawn by the falls, and would sometimes clip right through the wall into the cave. it seemed to happen when there were a lot of scrags bunched up, so i just reduced their numbers and the problem went away...
incidentally, the scrags do have bounding boxes, they are the same size as a player entity. so i don't know why this happens.

also, the hull1 hull2 thing explains alot regarding bounding boxes. i could never figure out how the big dragon in nesp06 was able to fit through smaller passageways even though it had a massive bounding box.

thanks a lot for the clarification 
maybe since they're monster_wizard they can turn on their NOCLIP? :) 
Magic Scrags 
sv_move.c:SV_movestep treats normal and FL_FLY entities differently. I haven't time to examine it closely, but it looks a bit odd. aguiRe; see what you think. 
I'm Not Very Good 
at QC, I've only made some minor fiddling with it. I was just curious whether the issue was related to the entity size but apparently it wasn't. Come to think of it, it probably would be a lot more difficult to hit a scrag with a bullet if it had no volume. 
don't actually use flying thing... they are set to movetype_step... it's confusing. 
i believe this means that the entity moves in discrete steps (becuase of the 10Hz think function) and not that they actually walk on the ground. 
makes sense, i guess. i just assumed it was walking, because there was movetype_fly as well. ;) 
Interesting Hull Talk 
aguiRe - Interesting explanation of Hulls. I learned something. I wonder if my map troubles are related to these offset surfaces. I can just imagine what Hull 1 and 2 look like on my trusses. Bleh...

BTW, I'm vising my slightly improved map. It still sucks. I'm working on the 2nd map and letting your vis program take all my PC's spare time.

I also used the light parameters (light -extra -soft -light 20 -sunlight 150 -sunmangle 225,-30 -sunlight2 40 e2m1a). It does make the map look nicer and more natural. The only drawback is that I lose some cool looking shadows (such as the lifting truss shadow against the rockface) but I think I'm inclined to go with your soft shadows anyway if this thing ever gets done. 
Maybe A Shader Question 
What do I need to do in Quake 3 so that arcitecture won't show up behind skybox brushes. There's a small part of an adjacent roof you can see through the sky in one of my maps, which is culled from some angles but not others and looks generally weird. 
Well if the surfaces you're seeing aren't ever visible by the player, you could caulk them. Otherwise, there's not much you can do.

I don't know how it works technically, but basically the skybox is drawn behind everything in the visibility table. So if VIS does not block Room A from being viewed in Room B, trying to hide Room A with a skybox won't work. This problem was evident in Quake 2 as well (load base1 and noclip to the top of the outside room; you'll be able to see the inside parts of adjacent rooms through the skybox).

The only real thing you can do is use areaportals and hint brushes to optimize VIS, or change the architecture so there's nothing to see behind the skybox (which is not what you want, surely).

I hope that made sense. If not, I defer to metlslime. 
solution: build spatially coherent maps.

if there's a room up there, wouldn't you see the outside of the building? So build that. 
Well it's just a small corner that you see. Technically you should be able to see something but it doesn't 'feel' like you should be able to. I could build an outside and make it look intersting. That would mean sealing some of the rooms in a box, isn't that what everyone makes fun of? 
If It's Just A Corner... 
try simply raising the brushes a little to block it, or adding new ones to build it up a little. 
There is a hint trick you can do that can sometimes fix that. Spog did a hint example map which you should be able to find somewhere that shows how. Its a matter of tricking vis to think that the area behind the sky can't be seen. 
That would be perfect, thanks. I couldn't find it with google but I'll bother spog about it when I see him. 
you can d/l the map files here 

needs the http:// to be made a link 
There Is Such A Pack! 
Spog said there wasn't. He gave me a very nice explanation about hint brushes though. 
Bsp2prt Utility 
Does anyone know if the source code is available somewhere? 
That Stunning Allocate_hunc Error 
Quake1 map, which had a big content.(1.7Mb)
I have changed the textures count to its limits.
Than deleted several brushes.
Now I have a map of 1426kb, but it gets stuck!

Don't know what it is, under DOS there is no problem. But this Win98 won't play my map.

Is there a solution? possible? 
Hunk_Alloc: Failed 
You may need to allocate more memory for the engine by adding the command line option "-winmem 16" (DOSQuake) or "-heapsize 32768" (all other engines). 
Didn't knew one could make the string longer.
Now it works with
quake.exe -winmem 16 -game aband +map start

Editor Window 
In the 3d section of worldcraft a texture that Ive place on an angle appears straight but when the map is loaded its turned back in the other direction, however if I change it so it looks wrong in wc it actually looks right in game, is there anyway around this or do I just put up with it?

Also I have this concrete section where it uses a tex called divider1b on the top then a seperate brush using divider tex on it but when in game it uses divider1b over both brush (they are touching if that makes a difference). 
Editor Widow 
Your qbsp prog should have a command line switch like -useoldaxis, -alternateaxis or something similar. Check the readme.
Using this switch when compiling should fix the problem. 
Oh, You Had Two Questions... 
Answer to second one:

This is a bug in WorldCraft.
If you've got a texture called divider, and another one called divider1b, if you apply the divider1b texture first, and then try to apply the divider texture, WC won't properly overwrite the string that stores the texture name, so it still reads the texture as divider1b.

A hack way to overcome this problem is to first change the texture into something completely different, (like wizmet1_2,) and then applying the divider texture.

The proper way to solve it, (besides haxx0ring WC or using GTKR instead,) is to rename the divider texture in the wad so it's named dividera1</y> or something like that.

You should make sure that there are no texture names in your wads that are such that you get another valid texture name if you append some more letters to it.
Right, No Underline 
dividera1 then... 
Just checking since you closed the tags wrong. 
You Could Also Have RTFM
Though, I didn't do that either, so I guess you're clear. 
Working on a map with terrain. I used vertex manipulation, and there were no errors, according to "check for problems".

However, when i compiled, i got a large amount of brush with duplicate plane errors, and when i play the map there are rocks where there are not supposed to be rocks.

Is there an easy way to fix this error? 
Can Only Guess... 
Importing the .map file back into your editor will show up the dodgy brushes & you can fix them.

I'm guessing you're using WC... the 'check for problems' is normally only useful for missing textures, mismatched targets or unrecognised entities etc. 
I would like to know for sure if qbsp for q1 starts the same way as q3map does, with splitting the map along each, uh, axial plane before splitting by the rest of the geometry. 
I think MapSpy will help you track down and/or fix duplicate planes. Also, QERadiant has a plugin that fixes duplicate planes. Very handy. 
Duplicate Planes 
I get that error message too. I don't notice problems in the map though. It is annoying though and I wish I knew what caused it. I don't do booleans. I use the clip tool occasionally and I use vertex manipulation and face splitting a fair bit.

I have another error that won't do away. Using Check for Problems I get this: Solid Entity (func_door) is empty. Go to Error shows nothing and the Fix Problem doesn't remove it either.

But both these issues aren't stopping me from moving on. Just curious. 
Great To Download The Cube Engine 
but how do I turn vieuw? 
How To Turn Vieuw? 
Uses mouse. 
Ya, it's a phantom door that appears after some operations in Worldcraft.

If you get the error message, hit "go to error", the 0,0,0 point should now be centered, place your cursor over the origin point... if it goes red it means at some stage you've generated a phantom door as big as the grid. Hit delete. No more problem. 
in gtkradiant, after manipulation vertices alot, sometimes, i will re make a flat face (which had been split up into two triangles, intead of a square) but gtkr won't recombine the two triangles itself. what i have to do it move the brush a bit, then gtkr gets rid of it. maybe that's what a duplicate plane is? 
Does anyone have the Q2 wad, or know of a working link online? 
Q1 Tool Tips 
I've put together a simple document that might help Q1 mappers or players when they have problems with the build tools or engine.

It's available at .

Any comments are welcome. 
Does My Bsp Has The Flu? 
well, this is new to me.
the txbsp compiler tells me:

healing degenerate

or do my healthpacks get hostile?

& thanx for the error message document. 
If That Warning 
is all you get while compiling your maps, consider yourself lucky ...

It's a non-critical warning and can be safely ignored. I've added it to my ToolTips in the next version. 
Thank You Bengt! 
This info is very useful. The MAP_CLIPNODES limit error where there is no leak can usually be solved ( as czg pointed out) by adding large clip brushes to areas that no one is ever going to go, rather than changing architecture. 
I'm Glad You Like It 
I've now updated it to v0.02 with more info including the clipbrush tip. 
You rock! Thanks! 
Duplicate Planes, A Personal Theory 
I notice that this error usually occurs on brushes that I have manipulated individual vertices on. Is it possible that when this happens, it is because the vertex manipulation creates two seperate areas on the same brush that lie on the same plane and thus the space between the brushes is concaved and the engine or compiler cant split this brush into acceptable triagulated data? 
that should be, 'the space between the planes' 
Hello everyone, I am currently working on my 6th map and I need a little help. Can anyone here advise me step by step on how to create a trigger lightning? The way I plan on making it is when u hit a button and the lightning shoots out (like a trap).

Thank you for your help :) 
Fire Reign 
Have you tried this?

If not, try it. That's probably described about as well as I can do it. 
Your fix worked!

Give me a new contact when you can. I've got a beta almost thru vis. I can't wait to finish it and seal it in the can. 2nd map is progressing. 
My Pleasure Friend... 
I'm back at work, yaaaay!

I'm sending the e3m1 wad to Leviathan tomorrow, along with the progress bsps for start, e1m1 and e3m2, so I'll CC: you into the mail 
Maping Standards Q1 
Quake gamers have the same problem, mapping standards. New types of map items added have no real standards in spq or dm levels. So, you can get these maps/mods combos from said designer with some cool goodies, but unusable with your favorate mods, q1/q2 mission pack, Killer quake pack, Ultimate weapons mod, just to name a few. Since, they have some special weapons, items, monsters, etc that makes them unplayable with anything but the mod that comes with the level. So, you just play the level/mod combo in god mode for some good action and eye candy. Or for that matter, as a level made for specific mod and can't be used for any other mod.

At the other end, you have the vanilla quake level with no special goodies that work with all mods. We all love these levels, but having the goodies like flamethrower and freezethrower as ground pickups are just plain fun.

With mapping standards between mod makers and mappers, you could have the middle ground. So, I'v decided to make up a list of standard map items i'm aware of. It will list the title and description of what they do and maybe damage level. For now, here some first thoughts:
Also, I found something called "cut scene construction kit" out of an old mod as another possible standard. Give it some thought for a while. I'll post the URL at a later date, maybe a cross post at quake stanards.


If You've Had Problems 
using the old bsp2prt utility, I've now added that functionality to my BspInfo utility. It has large capacity and generates a more accurate .prt file with fewer leafs/portals which helps vis.

I think I've also found the cause of the elusive CutNodePortals_r: New portal was clipped away warning in qbsp and added coordinates to help finding the problem spot. It seems to be the same cause as many other qbsp-related problems; tiny brush misalignments.

You'll find the updated tool versions at
i've got some prob
i'm making map in gtkradiant, and when i compile it with q3map2 it finds phantom leak (tho, the map has no any holes, i'm sure).
but, q1 compilers after convertiong map to q1 format, compile it with no probs.
anyone know any workarounds for that?
maybe some util that will process .map file for error brushes or something? some kind of .map file refresh utility? 
maybe that bengt's new qbsp might help, because i started to get 3 cutnodeportals errors in a row.... 
Does the portal file get created & vis run in q3map2? If so I wouldn't worry too much about it - the bsp part of q3map2 always seems to report leaks to phantom entities in my maps but it doesn't stop it from vising & working ok.

I presume you've tried to load the pointfile into gtkr. 
AguirRe Question 
How hard would it be to add dubsp type
functionality to your bsp progs?
(ie compile HL/Hammer maps for Q1)
How much of a difference is there between
HL .map and Q1 .map formats? 
yeah, q3map2 vises and lights map fine.
i think it's some q3map b0rkage or something indeed. good thing that q1 compilers eat this .map fine, this is what important :)
i just worry a bit about that phantom leak, but seems like i shouldn't. 
well, i was trying to fix that cutnodeportals thingy using coords that qbsp printed. well, it pointed to some spot in the void. no misaligned brushes nearby... there are some edge manipulated brushes tho, but they're all aligned to the grid properly... when i edited some nearby brushes, reported spot coordinates moved slightly, but still coords are in the void... 
CutNodePortals warnings can be pretty tricky to fix, especially if they're in hulls 1/2. I assume that this is your case and that's why you get coordinates that are not near any edges/vertices.

If you remember my ramblings about the expanded brushes, you'll have to visualize this expansion and try to imagine where the brush junctions might be then and then track back to which real brush it might be.

I've done this extensivley for a couple of days and it can be rather time-consuming to track down the CutNodePortals warnings for hulls 1/2, but so far I've managed to fix them.

It should be noted that AFAIK, they're still non-critical warnings; you probably don't have to fix them. They might be regarded as potential problem spots.

If you need more help, send me the zipped map+wad and I'll see what I can do. 
I've thought about this myself, I have the source for DuBSP so it's more of a decision whether I want to add and maintain this functionality in my versions.

IIRC there were a number of issues to consider regarding map file format, wads and even an extra crouching hull(?). There is also the problem with testing; I don't have or use Hammer myself.

I dismissed the idea then, I might take a look into it again as I see there are a number of Hammer mappers. No promises though ...

Then there's the question if Riot's going to maintain DuBSP or he's through with it. Maybe he could answer that. 
wouldn't it be easier to make a seperate program to simply convert hl maps to q1 map format like sleepwalkR's mapconv.exe does for q3/q2 to q1? that way you don't have to worry about any of the ducking hulls and such, it seems more straight forward that way...
mind you, i really don't know anything about that... :P 
yeah, i generally ignore this warning. i just thought that maybe for some reason these tiny brush misalignments can cause q3map2 generate phantom leak. so i hoped that by fixing this warning q3map2 will start compiling my map w/o errors. but as glassman said, i can ignore and that q3map's phantom leaks too. well, for me qbsp output is much more important of course, so while everything is ok there, there's no need to worry much ;) 
That's a good idea. I've already in my ConvMap utility the ability to convert Q2 map format into Q1 (similar to mapconv).

There's an additional problem here though. Hammer (like QuArK) can probably generate more variants of texture positioning than the standard Q1 map format can handle.

This means that either there still needs to be changes in the compilers to accommodate a new format or the conversion must go via the QuArK ETP format.

Any suggestions are welcome. 
Can you please confirm which hull the warning appeared in? 
I Need Hammer Source Maps 
and corresponding wads (zipped, please) to test a quick fix I've just made for my compilers. It looks promising on the few Hammer maps I have.

At this time, it only enables my compilers to interpret the Hammer map files (with its native texture definitions), wads must manually be converted into WAD2s using e.g. TexMex and there's no support for extra hulls or other frills. I hope this is not a big problem.

Since [Jimbo] and MisYu have showed interest in this issue, maybe you could send me some test material? 
here goes the paste from qbsp output:

---- MakeFaceEdges ----
---- GrowRegions ----
Processing hull 1...
Processing hull 2...
*** WARNING 12: New portal was clipped away in CutNodePortals_r near (428 2400 -800)
---- WriteBSPFile ---- 
It's In Hull 2 
as I hoped, that's why it's more difficult to fix. My usual method is to look in the nearby area for brushes with non-axial planes and delete them and rebuild to see when the warning disappears (or changes). As I said, it can be quite time-consuming ...

Thanks for the info. 
the prob is, the whole map is built mostly with brushes with non-axial planes ;)
anyway, i'll ignore this warning 
I emailed you a link to a zipped rmf map and
Let me know if the link works. 
Got It 
Please don't include the rmf files as I can't open them anyway (I don't have Hammer). 
vondur, you don't need to worry at all about that. call me sloppy, but on average per map, i get about 2 dozen of those warnings... :P 
RPG100B1 had at least one, and maybe two cutnodeportals warnings. 
Strange Bug 
I found a strange effect/bug.
I launched quake, then started e2m5 map, after that I started my sm57_pulsar_se map, and I saw that one texture was replaced by another one through all the map. I restarted quake and this effect dissapeared.
But now I know, every time I start e1m5 before sm57_pulsar_se one texture changes.

Anyone knows why? 
I Think...'s because one of the textures in your map shares the same name with one in e2m5. It's a bug in standard GLQuake, is that what you're using?

The one in e2m5 has the same name so GLQ thinks it's the same one and doesn't reload it; just loads the old one from its cache. 
Its Not A Bug 
its a "feature" 
it gives replay value! never play the same level twice! 
the only reason i started worrying was inability of q3map2 to compile the map properly. but ppl explained me that i shouldn't worry about that :) 
yeah, what xen said.
use fitzquake, it has this bug removed. 
I used glquake, simply it's the first time I saw this bug. Thanx for info.
vondur: I already have fitzquake, but it doesn't work with my videocard (voodoo2 12 mb) 
JellyFish Orb? 
I just downloaded FizQuake, and it works great!
Then I tried it on my own convertion, in which I have changed the Enforcer for a selfmade Orb.
And although it works good in normal Quake, I found my Orb back as a shapeless jellyfish in FizQuake.
I have seen this before with MercBabe, which I had converted from Malice.

Whatever happened to the texture shape? 
i found that most every engine except standard glQuake displayed the malice models incorrectly, when running the TC itself. 
does fitzquake mesh the models? maybe that's why? 
Take a look at my Q1 ToolTips (section Engine Problems)
Meshing Models... 
fitzquake meshes models the same way glquake does. In both cases, there is a danger of the mesh being mismatched to the mdl (becuase of a model replacement in a mod.) I eventually plan on dealing with this problem. 
Well, The Easiet Solution 
is of course, to make fitzquake remesh the models everytime it loads. it doesn't take very long to do, so most people won't even notice it. 
If you're still worried about your phantom q3map2 leak (post #1007) there's a thread on q3w that might relate.
Suggests upgrading to v2.5.12. 
Too Many EFRAGS 
I heard it said that this could be caused by improper placement of torches (or flames) partially within brushes. Are there other potential causes of this error as well? Does the flame model problem sound correct? I'd like to get rid of this error message as my map is approaching completion. 
For a quick explanation, take a look in my Q1 ToolTips, Engine Problems section.

For more details, check out post #729 in this thread. 
I sent you an email regarding E2M1a - it's fully vised! Your myrealbox didn't work. The mail I sent had no attachments but a CnP of the vis log. If you have a working address, I can forward it there. 
well, i tried 2.5.12, still no luck. entity still leaks. well, fek it cuz the map vises and lights properly. and it compiles fine in q1 compilers, this is what's important isn't it? :)
thanks for the help though! 
Re: #1043 
/me frantically opens Outlook 
Hopefully, you've got mail. 
Oh For Heaven's Sake... 
So I've got WC3.3 and I want to map for Q1 but with n33t stuff like radiosity and texture-based lighting. Can someone explain all this new-fangled mumbo-jumbo to me or point me at a FAQ or something?

No mail.

Distrans and Lev - I just sent the zip. Hope it reaches you guys.

Sorry readers for off-line discussion. 
I've just re-sent it, I hope you'll get it now. I can't see how my MyRealBox account could prevent me from reaching you, though. Both my account seem to be working. And I don't get any rejects sending the email to you.

You haven't changed email address lately? 

that site has pretty much all you need for editing in Hammer... giving you the option of radiosity, surface lighting, coloured radiosity and surface lighting and more :) 
Cheers Starbuck. Blah, I already have all of that setup, I was hoping there was a more elegant solution. 
LTH, Im Good At Elegant Solutions :) 
but i dont map :/

Tigger-On, Necros [and lots of others]...seem pretty clued up. im sure someone here will be able to help soon.....or else email some guys individually. 
there's the site by riot i think, with the q1rad program. he does a good job of explaining how the radiosity works there, i believe... 
Hammer Support 
(Valve 220 format) is now available at .

Any comments are welcome. 
Ah Sweet 
you'll still need riot's wadconv utility from the site I linked though. Looks like there no longer is any reason not to use aguirRe's bsp and vis. 
He'p Meh! 
Just a quicky. Does anyone have the .map of start.bsp? If so can they please mail it to me. Thanks.

If not I'll try converting it... :-) 
You Could Try Decompiling It 
Is your email down or are you just busy? I've sent you four emails the last couple of days without any response. 
MIRC Problem 
OK, can't connect to gamesnet, saw that there was a message about moving to gamesurge or something. Will that be up soon cuz I don't have it on my server list, and if it's already up how do I access that server so I can speedmap ? :O 
GamesNET has effectively moved/renamed to GamesUrge. More details:

The new irc server is . Your IRC client (mIRC) should have an option for adding a new server. 
Gamesurge 6667 (Columbus, OH)
Extremity.CA.US.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Fremont, CA )
GameWarriors.NJ.US.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Matawn, NJ ) 6667 (Geneva, Switzerland) 6667 (Lausanne, Switzerland )
Netfire.TX.US.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Dallas, TX )
NuclearFallout.CA.US.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Los Angeles, CA)
Oktagone.WA.AU.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Perth, Western Australia)
Osgamers.TX.US.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Dallas, TX)
Prothid.CA.US.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Los Angeles, CA)
RedPhive.BC.CA.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Vancouver, BC)
Slim.NY.US.GameSurge.Net 6667 (New York, NY )
Tukikohta.FI.EU.GameSurge.Net 6667 (Tampere, Finland) 6660,6667,7000 (Sacramento, CA) 
Shambler Blinded My Pak-file 
While adding my maps to a PAK-file, it suddenly
appears all the light has gone out in one of my maps.
Strange because apart of it there is normal light.

Does anyone knows why Shambler has grasped all the light out of the pak-file??? 
Yeah Shambler 
You big fat northern bully, give him his lights back. 
Editor Help... 
is there anyway to select all coplanar faces in gtkradiant without doing it manually? 

but with the newest 1.5 you can select multiple faces, but there are some limitations 
I Don't Understand. 
you already can select multiple faces with 1.3.12 (what i'm using currently) and have been able to since i started using gtkr...

also, i wanted to know if any who has been using the new 1.4.whatever thought it was worth to upgrade to it...
is the wierdness with the face texture tool still there? 
when i map in gtkr, i like using the "common" textures, those are set up to be transparent and are very nice and clean and obvious.
i'm talking about the clip and trigger textures for q3 btw... however, i don't include the textures in my wad since you can't see these brushes anyway.

my question is, besides saying at startup that there are missing textures, are there any other ill effects? 
Some of the engines will freak out. Just include a dummy texture with the apropriate name. 
Which Engines? 
Its nice to be as efficient as possible (and so I can see why you'd want to exclude textures that aren't displayed from your wad file) but really... when you're talking about only a few kilobytes per texture of wasted space...

I'd rather put those textures in the wad file than make users put up with annoying error messages at runtime, and possibly cause unforseen weirdness or errors in other engines.

Have some fun with it and make your own clip/trigger textures, if nothing else you might give someone a laugh when they open up the BSP in texmex to view the textures.

By the way, its easy to set up a simple shader for your own clip/trigger textures (or any other textures for that matter) and make them semi-transparent or whatever (I like to do this with my water textures in gtkr). 
/me remembers Frib's nudie tex's. 
i meant multiple face selecton with one mousedrag, not by clicking on each face. 
Frib: i suppose... i guess i'll do it... clip and triggers textures don't have to be 64x64 anyway, so i'll prolly just stick in some 4x4s or something...

Vondur: i see. that sounds rather usefull too! 
QuArK Try... 
I've made a try yesterday evening with QuArK 6.4.0.. It's a very great software, very usefull to import BSP, MAP, WAD files, etc.. ... and to create these one also... (I made a little try with the default starting map, and a test using some differents brushes..)
I also try to import a BSP file, but a warning appears during the importation.. there was some missing WAD texture into my library..
So, is there a turnaround to avoid this problem and obtain the full WAD texture file from the imported BSP map ??? Or do I need to create myself the missing brushes and add them into my WAD texture files ??? 
clip and triggers textures don't have to be 64x64 anyway, so i'll prolly just stick in some 4x4s or something

I thought normal GLQuake would give a cache mismatch error or something when it tries to load a texture that is a different size but has the same name of a texture it already has loaded? 
BSP Extraction Warning 
So, if I make some modifications into a BSP extracted map, with such warnings, without re-brush the failing part, does the re-build BSP file will be OK or not ?? 
What you say?? 
Yes, Rpg 
but only if there was a map loaded before it.

...ack! i think i'll just stick to not including the textures and being an asshole!!! argh! 
Maybe you should just include the textures like everyone else??

I just did a test, and when I added a new 64x64 texture to a map, the .bsp size went up by 5.47 kilobytes (5604 bytes). So for both a clip and trigger texture, you would be saving less than 11kb. I don't think that will have much impact on in-game performance, especially since you're already designing maps with four digit r_speeds. And you're only saving about two seconds of download time for a modem user. Honestly, why go through the hassle of removing the textures and risk having some engines crash when it's having such little impact in the first place? I can assure you that if the increased performance and smaller filesize had a big impact that id Software would have done it on the original maps. 
i hope your happy. i'm going to pout for the rest of the day!

... :P 
Mission Accomplished 
Today's todo list:

* Wank. (check)
* Piss off necros. (check)
* Build this room in QERadiant.
* Tell necros that "your" is not the proper contraction of "you are."
* Wank again.

2/5 so far for today. 
So You've Wanked 
twice already?

(should have caught that before... :P) 

gah... it's too early... ugh 
so as i got there is no antilight in your light util, right? 
No coloured lighting or antilights planned ATM. 
will the antilights support be planned any time later? 
Or do you atleast plan to plan to plan on antlights? 
Antilights are pretty useful sometimes, it'd be nice to have them in your light tool someday, aguirRe... its one of the few things I miss when I use your light tool (other than radiosity, hah).

While things like radiosity might not be feasible, antilights are hopefully possible, I hope you'll consider considering planning to plan to add it later :D 
this is gonna seem strange, but is it possible to map for halflife from gtkradiant?

ie: is there a converter to convert an quake map into an hl map? 
there's official hl support for gtkradiant

as for the converting i'm not sure 
yes, they're very useful especially when u use ambient light, and you wanna make id style arch exit leading into the blackness. it's impossible ot make this blackness with ambient light enabled and with no antilights :) i met this problem now, so i'm puzzled how to solve it... 
i've done HL mapping with gtkradiant. It basically works. 
awesome, got the editor set up for it... now, can someone point me towards good hl compilers? 
Can anyone help me solve this? Last night I tried to replay after a long time 2 mapping masterpieces such as Insomnia and Contract Revoked... both of them made quake crash as soon as I entered the final slipgate to get to the 1st map.... I run MhQuake on a 700 Mhz Amd with 256 mgRam and a Geforce2mx on Windows 2000... When MhQuake Loads up, usually gives these messages (they do not harm gameplay, though, or so it seems....):
unknown command "gl_flashblend"
unknown command "r_maxsurfs"
unknown command "r_maxedges"

Anyone got a clue? Thanx... 
that's because r_maxsurfs and maxedges are for software only (czg put those in so that it would work for both)
and gl_flashblend was probably removed from mhquake (it's that orange sphere that replaces the dynamic light. most people like it off, with the regular dynamic light instead, and it looks like czg put that in there to turn it off by default. 
Q1 Map Tools For Radiant? 
Ive seen links to these on peekaboom's site and on several PQ LOTW pages but all are dead. Id really like to get ahold of these tools so I can use one editor for all my quake mapping needs. :)

Thanks! FaT. 
Basic Antilight Support 
is in testing phase and can hopefully be included in the next Light release. So far it looks good.

It doesn't support all variants that TyrLite does, but I hope it's sufficient. There's no anti-sunlight and it behaves like the TyrLite -nominlimit option is always enabled. 
looking forward for the release of the next version of your Light tool 
Q2 Mapping 
First of, thanks to Scampie for telling me about this board - a safe warm place indeed. :) Anyway, I'd like to do some Q2 mapping but have a question and a request before I can start moving the brushes around:

Question: which editor should I use? Unless Worldcraft supports some stuff Queradinat/GTKRadiant doesn't, I'd like to stay with one of the former ones since I used GTKRad when I was playing around with RTCW. Which one of them is more suitable for Q2? GTKRadiant is supposed to be recommended, but it crashed on me only after loading the textures... Is Queradiant more stable?

Request: The best way to learn mapping is IMHO with checking other people's work. Scampie sadly doesn't have sources of his Q2 maps available on his site nor are there any Q2 sources at LvL Open Source, so I'm asking if there are any other sites I should check or even if there is anyone out there willing to share his/her work with me?

Thank you. 
Q2 Editors 
I suggest QERadiant. It's what I use. If you can get GTKRadiant to work with Q2, then use that. 
Q2 Map Sources 
I just remembered that SleepwalkR has released the source for two of his Q2DM maps. Click on "Projects." 
Has a build specifically for quake2, I just finished downloading it from radiant's website. 
I Love Google! 
It hit me like a thunderbolt as soon as I saw SleepwalkR's name above I knew it was he that peekaboom had mentioned on his website. Alas the links on the site are not working but a google search turned up files on source forge. woohoo! I feel like Homer Simpson after eating a dozen doughnuts. Mmmm...Doughnuts...

Thanks! FaT. 
Thanx A Lot Necros.... 
... you've been very kind... But, does anyone know why Quake crashes when I enter the slipgates? I just can't seem to begin the maps.... 
I Have No Idea... 
but try this.
when you get to then end of czg07a, instead of going through the teleporter, type in the console: "changelevel czg07b" and see if that crashes quake. (it will have the same effect as going through the endlevel trigger, but you won't see your stats.) 
Wierd Bug In Fitzquake... 
running fitzquake in 1024x768, with gl_clear 1
when i load my map there is nothing.
it's completly gray. i can still move around, and the world is there (i can hear my self pushing buttons and monsters firing at me) but i just can't see anything. turning off gl_clear gives hom.

i understand that the map is unvised and pretty big with lots of wpoly (12000 in one area) but i was able to load the map in tyrann's glquake. is there a max wpoly limit in fq or something? :P

vising the map did fix the fq problem... i'm still confused why one engine was able to load it while the other wasn't...

i also noticed a fairly significant decrease in frame render time in fq as opposed to tyrglquake... fq was doing the same 5000 wpoly scene at around 14ms whilst tyrglquake did the same scene at around 25ms.
what's with that big discrepancy? is it even larger on slower machines?

whatever you did to fitzquake, metlslime, i like it! 
please mail me an unvised (and zipped) version of that bsp; i'd like to check out the bug you mention.

As for why it runs faster on high-poly scenes, this has to do with me rewriting the renderer last version. I'm glad to hear that it worked. 
You've Got Mail, Metl 
In some maps I get a peculiar FQ message "Backup past 0" when moving in certain areas, what does it mean? 
I've Always Took It As An Article Of Faith 
that QuakeI doesn't support multitextures on single brushes. Never thought it to be a big deal nor necessary though UnReal based games do (Dues Ex, yummmm) support it. And then, just a moment ago I was fiddling around with a decompiled version of Mr Elusive's Start map for Tale of Abbot's Rune, trying to figure out how he set up those staged combats, and I stumble upon this,

{ //brush 2
( -832 8192 8192 ) ( -832 -8192 8192 ) ( -832 8192 -8192 ) sky4 0 -32 0 1 1
( -808 -8192 8192 ) ( -808 8192 8192 ) ( -808 8192 -8192 ) sky4 -40 -32 180 1 1
( 8192 928 8192 ) ( -8192 928 8192 ) ( -8192 928 -8192 ) sky4 -40 -32 0 1 1
( 8192 -8192 32 ) ( 8192 8192 32 ) ( -8192 -8192 32 ) sky4 -40 0 0 1 1
( 8192 8192 64 ) ( 8192 -8192 64 ) ( -8192 -8192 64 ) sky4 -40 0 0 1 1
( -7406 3522 8192 ) ( 7703 -2813 8192 ) ( -7406 3522 -8192 ) sky4 -40 -32 0 1 1
( -4340 7059 8108 ) ( 2034 -8033 8108 ) ( -2856 7686 -8196 ) rock5_2 0 -32 0 1 1

And my faith in the sigularity of Quake surfacing is shattered into a million atoms.

I tested this out with an attempt of my own.

// brush 6
( 64 256 0 ) ( 64 240 0 ) ( 64 240 -48 ) wiz1_2 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 128 256 0 ) ( 64 256 0 ) ( 64 256 -48 ) wiz1_1 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 128 240 0 ) ( 128 256 0 ) ( 128 256 -48 ) wiz1_2 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 64 192 0 ) ( 128 192 0 ) ( 128 192 -48 ) wiz1_1 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 64 240 0 ) ( 64 256 0 ) ( 128 256 0 ) wiz1_2 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 128 256 -48 ) ( 64 256 -48 ) ( 64 240 -48 ) wiz1_1 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
// brush 7
( -64 64 0 ) ( -64 0 0 ) ( -64 0 -48 ) wizmet1_2 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 0 64 0 ) ( -64 64 0 ) ( -64 64 -48 ) wizmet1_1 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 0 0 0 ) ( 0 64 0 ) ( 0 64 -48 ) wizmet1_2 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( -64 0 0 ) ( 0 0 0 ) ( 0 0 -48 ) wizmet1_1 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( -64 0 0 ) ( -64 64 0 ) ( 0 64 0 ) wizmet1_2 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
( 0 64 -48 ) ( -64 64 -48 ) ( -64 0 -48 ) wizmet1_1 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000
And the compiled version did as I expected, no surface textures for the offending sides. So I have come to one canonical conclusion. If you are Mr Elusive, the rule do not apply. 
Okay, I Think I Have It Figured Out 
The decompilation is a faithful reproduction of the QBSP file (I use the Q3 BSPC-GUI for Windows 95/NT which never adds much glut when I decompile my own maps) and not of the map. So the liberties taken are in the compilation process. Whew, my faith is restored unless someone has more to add, 
Map Files 
don't look nice in msgboard format ...

Anyway, having different textures on a brush is absolutely no problem for Q1. As long as they're of the same type (solid/sky/liquid), they won't disappear or otherwise act strangely.

However, if they're of different type (like your example above with sky4 and rock5_2), you might get weird behaviour in the engine. This is probably a bspc (the decompiler) bug that normally needs to be fixed manually.

If you check out my ConvMap tool, you'll find a fixup mode that will help compensating for this bug. 
Thanks AguiRe 
Good to know and I'll definitely check your tools out. Could the problem with my own attempt be the result of keeping the Q3 .500000 scaling? Perhaps, this is why I have had this misconception for some time. 
However, if they're of different type (like your example above with sky4 and rock5_2), you might get weird behaviour in the engine.

I had a map where I used a lot of brushes with solid and sky textures on them. There wasn't any problem with engine (even with dosquake). Only rockets couldn't pass through such sky textures, they acted like solid textures.

I hope you understand what I tried to explain :) 
There's A Way 
to get a liquid brush with solid textures... i'm not quite sure how to do it, but i think as long as the last texture on the brush in the .map file is a liquid, the bsp program will treat it as a liquid of that type.

i was experimenting with this in my most recent map, and i might go for it with an animated texture. the only downside (but this could also be a plus) is that the unliquid textures of the liquid brush are not fullbright, so you need to light them as normal. 
I Think That Helps 
I always knew it was possible in Q2 (with the edition of the surface inspector) and Q3, but I assumed the problems I've run into with Q1 multisurfacing was inherent in the engine. 
Q2 Mapping 
@R.P.G. & FaTbOy!: thank you for your feedback. It looks like the latest version of GTKRad-classic hates my system - I tried with version 1.3.13 and it seems to be working well. I've also mailed SleepwalkR and hopefully he'll fix the links, because id's base1 source isn't exactly what I was expecting in terms of build quality. Or am I missing something?

1. Is it worthless to clip brushes that are sticking out of playable area? I mean, doesn't this have a bad effect on performance?

2. I heard sky texture can be used in similar way as caulk in Quake 3. Is this true?

3. Should I care about aligning brushes so they fit perfectly like one should do when making Q3 maps? Is there any big difference between Q2 and Q3-mapping in this aspect?

4. Are there any differences between Q2's and Q3's hint brushes? 
Trivial Mapping Tip That Could Be Helpful: 
anyone who watched the demo i recorded of xen's latest speedmap will see i had a lot of trouble getting onto the one func_plat in his map.

the way quake works for the func_plat, is it takes the largest coordinates of the brush and makes a cubic trigger roughly the same size of those coordinates. the reason i had trouble getting onto the plat was because the trigger is square while the brush itself was a triangle, thus, the plat was getting triggered too early before i could get onto the plat.

if you plan to do something like that, you should instead use a func_door and make the trigger yourself so you can control the size of it manually. or make a square lift.


this small bit of info brought to you by necros... 
1. Clip brushes have no effect on proformance, they only serve to smooth out areas that may be rough navigating.

2. I suppose it could be... but I'd think it'd be better to use some standard textures and apply 'solid' content and 'nodraw' surface properties.

3. You should always align brushes neatly, yes. This applys for all Quake engines, there is very little differance between them in terms of how your brushes are split up in BSP.

4. There's a few differances I believe, shows their use in Q2.

and no, you're not missing anything looking at id's q1 released sources... they really are that bad of mappers... :D 
Looking at the source, that's coming from the function that does line traces through bsps. The comment nearby says "shouldn't really happen, but does occasionally." It's also a dprint.

From my quick glance at the code it appears to mean that a trace impacted a wall just behind the start of the trace. In other words, the distance to impact was slightly negative. 
Thanks For The 
info, it usually happens in areas with complex brush shapes.

Another question: If I noclip through a map, why does sometimes something push me up very high as if there was a trigger_push (there isn't)? It's repeatable and very annoying if I try to inspect an area of the map.

It's happened in several engines and it's really weird. 
Ahh.. thanks for the tip :)

Thought I could solve it by sticking the button there but it didn't work.. ah well

aguire I've noticed that too.. usually happens above lava, or at least liquids, i've found 
I think that's quake's "jump up out of liquids" code giving you a bump. But, since there's no gravity, you'll coast upwards forever. 
I Haven't Seen 
that connection with liquids, but next time I'll look for nearby liquid. My suspicion was that it had something to do with odd-angled brushes (or rather, planes), it think I recall it happening just outside tunnels (in the void).

It also doesn't push forever, it just keeps pushing until it thinks I'm high enough and then my pushing down suddenly starts working again. Hopeless fight though ...

There's also that weird phenomenon when in fly mode, suddenly moving speed gets extremely slow (inside map of course). Normally I have to leave fly mode and then back again to regain normal speed. 
An Idea For A Ctf Map... 
A while back there was a thread here arguing which texture set was better Runic or Base. Ever since then I have been pondering building a ctf/tf map in which the two sides can battle it out. The textures would be original Id with the possible inclusion of some from rogue and hipnotic. I am not sure the bases would be identical for each side, might be interesting to mix it up.

I know most people here are DM or SP players but I thought it might be worth running by everyone. So...what do yall think? 
Go For It Fatboy 
I'd like to see it. 
Yeah... :-) 
Would be funny 
A Question On Entities 
before i go over that 255 entity limit... :P

what exactly counts as an entity? (not talking about edicts here)

i know that:
-each type of monster (if used) will count as one (so either 1 or 100 shamblers count as one)
-each func_ (other whatever bmodel) counts as one (unlike monsters, each iteration counts as one)
-echo misc item counts as one (like monsters) (includes weapons, ammo, health, etc...)

is there anything i'm missing, or do i have some of those wrong? 
i wrote echo instead of each. too much batch file writing i guess. 
have you checked my archived QMap thread? I think there are some explanations of this issue there. 
I Really Would Have Checked It 
but ie keeps crashing when it loads the page. actually, ie crashes whenever i load a big page... it will crash if i opened up the GA thread from post 0... 
In The Zip 
there are also three smaller pages, one for each year. That's what they're for. My old system also crashed the first time I loaded the whole thread. 
I Know 
If IE Still Crashes 
even with the small pages, try a better browser shell. I can really recommend GreenBrowser, , I've been running it for months.

It's a free 400k download, just unzip and run, no installation/uninstallation. It uses the IE Favorites and rendering engine so you're still basically running IE.

And I just tried to load the whole QMap thread in GB on my old systems and it works (a bit slow though). 
A Few Questions 
I have been using the Xatrix Wad in my project, and examining the textures in Photoshop I see that there is a great deal of subtexturing (the remainder of high rez to low rez shifting) in the textures that with a little careful tweeking can be made to be visibly clear at lower resolutions.

Of course, most commercial packages have it copy written you are not to modify the product in any form, but at this point, several years after any profit that could be made has been made do the distributors even care what is done with the product in a non-commercial capacity? 
Okay, so I've got q1rad and a nice surface lights file set up.

1. coloured lighting - how?
2. how do I stop the faces that are surfacelights appearing so much brighter than everything else?

Far Concern 
As I am packing map-files to a PAK-file, I wondered what could be the max limit of a BSP.
At first I stopped mapping, when my bsp reached 1.4Mb but adding winmem16 gave me the oppertunity to go further.
I watched Dissolution Of Eternity, with its Last Bastion of 2.291.536byte
And as it is played under DOS there is no problem.
Now I am here with a map of 2.345.900 and I am concerned it will give an Alloc_hunc error.
(Not for me, but for distributing it in a PAK file) 
well, look at it this way,
nesp09 is about 5.8mb and only needed a special engine to run because it had too many monsters.

most of the file size comes from textures anyway, and as long as you keep your textures under 2mb you're fine.

LTH: read the text that riot wrote with his tools it explains everything about q1rad and the lights.

and there's nothing you can do about surfaces of surface lights being bright -- that's the way it works. :\ 
True, But.. 
I like to distribute a PAK-file.
Not to let people load a special engine.
You are right for the textures, Necros, but also told me diagonal water textures look odd.
So I used animated tex, what drives up the bitecount.
So let me be odd, and ask it again...(?!) 
one of my new maps is nearly 9MB.
of course, I'm getting the hunc_alloc errors :) 
That's a huge map/ Of course, if you have to go custom, the executable would take less than another meg. For a map that size, I don't think it would be a bad idea. 
Transparent Water In Quake 

I have downloaded the file avalaible on web site. The autor ensure transparent water is avalaible with his tool...I made a try with the starting map (adding water) to know how looks like transparent water in Quake... and it doesn't work.. I don't know where the problem comes from... I uses a PC (Atlon 2GHz, 256 Mo RAM, etc.. my PC is a new one buyed less than 3 month), and the QuArK 6.4.0-alpha3 map builder tool... This tool is able to launch QBSP.exe (your release), RVIS.exe and ARGHLITE.exe utilities for BSP build... I try to find more informations in the related text files, but without success...
Is there anybody who can help me to solve the problem please ?? 
there should be a command line option when you compile the map. it should lookd like '-transwater' or something. just run wqbsp.exe /?
and you'll get all available options. or read the readme of this tool.
in the game, to see transparent water you have to enable it via console with command: r_wateralpha 0.3 (where 0.3 is the opacity level from 0 to 1)
and of course you have to use opengl accelerated engine to see the transwater. 
Transparent Water In Quake.. Bis 
OK, I've made a run of qbsp.exe only, and a "-transwater" option doesn't exist... I need to check this again..

Concerning the "r_wateralpha 0.3" option, I'll try to find it this evening...

Furthermore, I think a have an openGL engine: I use fitzquake0.75 from few weeks... (it creates me a glquake directory in each map/pak directory used)

Thanx for the infos.. 
sure there is no -transwater in id's qbsp.exe. it exists either in wqbsp or in bengt's treeqbsp which you can find here: 
Transparent Water... 
Well, transparent water seems to be included as a default feature in my qbsp version... Perhaps it's only the "r_wateralpha 0.3" option I forgot... I'll retry this evening..If it doesn't work anymore, I'll test bengt's treeqbsp...
Thanx for the link ;-)...
usually, most engines default to r_wateralpha "1" because most people still don't compile maps for that. it's not something i use either actually. :P 
Transparent Water In Fitzquake... 
In the fitzquake075 readme, it is never talk about the r_wateralpha option... But, it says this engine is based on the source code released by ID software GLQuake: this feature is perhaps already included and not clearly specified...
There is also a "fog" console command that seems to enable/disable a fog "opacity" option. Does anyone known about this ?? 
the three people who read the readme. 
About Fog... 
...I made the try, and it is very interesting to enable fog option (with a value of 0.2 or 0.3)... This generates a foggy environment that increases unsecurity sensation during the game...
Anyway.. is there an easy way to enable the console command at quake start-up imnstead of typing these ones manually ??? 
...more Precisely... 
.. is there a solution to enable (for example) fog and r_wateralpha option at start-up to avoid console manipulations before starting the game ???

create autoexec.cfg file in your /id1 folder and just write there everything u want like:

r_wateralpha 0.3
name JPLambert
sensitivity 10

personally i have an alias to enable/disable things like shadows/wateralpha/mirrors with one key. because not all the maps support wateralpha and when you run non alpha map it causes HOM like effect on the water so you'll have to disable it. i do that by pressing one key, not by typing it manually every time on console.

my autoexec looks like this: 
OK, I've got only a default one... I'm going to make some modifications (like in your autoexec.cfg file) to add options and more binding keys... Thank you for the link...
I think in the future I will required some help again... I'm about to start building my first map based on the egyptian Hatchepsout temple (I think the file will be named Hellchepsout ;-) but I'm not really sure... ).. Perhaps it is a big challenge to start with big map, I will see.... I'm still creating some new textures using some temple photos I found on the web... I hope it will show a great map appearance as real as possible !!!
building a large map (or open map with huge castle) requires smart brush placement. look for r_speeds. it shouldn't be more than 1000, otherwise the map will be unplayable on weak systems. 
About Large Map 
When you say large map, you told about bsp file size, or about the number of brushes/textures/monsters, etc... it can be found in it ??
And do you really think it still exists "weak systems" today ?? Obsolete PC (like 2 years old PC) are running using at least 1GHz processor and 128 Mo RAM.. or I don't understand what you mean about "weak systems"... What is, for you, a "weak system" ?? 
Mesh Abuse 
I screwed with a mesh to make it intersect the stairs brushes to create sand.

Is this a horrible abuse or a good idea? 
under large map i meant the map with high polycount, i.e. a lot of bruses/textures/monsters etc.
under weak systems i meant old puters like pii with voodoo card on board (or w/o gfx accelerator at all). believe me there still are such puters with quake players on them :)

of course it's your choice either to support weak systems or not. personally I've raised my r_speeds ceiling from 700 to 1000 recently. but i'm still trying to make r_speeds as low as possible. 
it's a good idea i think. 
OK, I agree, sure you have a bigger experience than me in this domain, so I will take a particular care to make r_speeds as low as possible... As I am beginner in Quake map building, all good advices are welcomed ...
Thanx again...
Think you've got the compression high enough on that image? ;) Half a meg just for a jpg screenshot...

Anyway, I think that's how most people do it. It's certainly easier. AFAIK you only begin to have problems if you can view it from a distance, in which case you'll begin to have z-fighting and artifacts; especially at lower bits per pixel. 
A Question 
By definition an autoexec.cfg is supposed to run automatically right? I can never get them to work in Fitzquake without exec'ing from the console. 
The behaviour should be governed by your quake.rc file... try adding another .cfg file to its list to execute with a name other than 'autoexec.cfg' 
the quake.rc file is the only file that really gets run automatically by quake. autoexec and config just get run from quake.rc

here's another one of those useless tips:
if you're making a pak file and want to include special settings, never include an autoexec or config .cfg files because alot of players (myself included) have their own with special commands they like (look at vondurs for example) if you include you're own config and autoexec, you override the player's ones. therefore, to get around this, change the quake.rc to include another .cfg file and put your special settings there.

That Was A Half Meg? 

Ok, thanks guys. 
A Simple Question 
I'm not sure exactly how entities count (one entity per each monster, regardless of the amount of that monster?), but I'm wondering this: Would replacing a bunch of monsters that are triggered to teleport (ie, trigger_teleport, monster_whatever and info_teleport_destination) with func_spawns lower a level's entity count significantly? 
One edict per monster.


Also - there is a limit on how many models one can precache, so having multiple func_x's can hit the engine precache limits, because each counts as a separate precached model. 
One edict per instance of each monster i.e. two scrags plus three soldiers equals five edicts. 
You can tell I've been doing a lot of mapping recently, I'm full of questions.

I set up two portals so that each camera looks away from the other portal. And the two portals aren't looking at each other. Is there something about this setup that would make it not work? 
JPG To Texture 
I try to create new textures using some JPG photos (converted in PCX files and added into a wad file, with some changes in resolution, color, dimensions, etc..), and when I test the map, my texture (applied to a wall for example) stay very "big" comparing to the player view... (for example an artefact of some centimeter in real live appear to be meters in quake for the player !!)
How can I avoid this problem ?? And what is the heigh of the player during the game ??
Are the textures sized down to a multiple of 16? Most wall texe's in Quake are 128x128. Smaller textures are 64x64 (like the larger buttons). So like:

16, 32, 64, 128, 256...

I'm not sure what the largest multiple accepted is, someone else should know. But you can do like this: 32 + 16 = 48 so let's say a certain texture works best at 48 x 16... you get the idea. 
Yes. I've sized textures correctly... The map building crashes if the textures sizes are not a multiple of 16.. It happends in my first tests...
But how to apply a correct size to texture (when applied to a brush), in order to have a player view as close as possible to reality?

PS: For infos I've extracted the Zerstorer textures and there exist a 384x384 texture ... So 
Is the texture applied at scale of 1.0? Are you meaning that you want to see more detail upclose instead of pixels? In that case you'd have to shrink the texture, but you'll still see pixels, just probably not as big. 
Ah... I didn't see this feature of texture scaling.. I'm going to take a look at the Help file, it certainly has further informations I missed...
Antilights, WAD3 Support 
and other things are now available at .

Any comments are welcome. 
you may not want to build a whole level with different texture scaling... for one thing, it messes the lightmaps up something fierce as well as makes qbsp cut up faces more i think.
i tried doing that for a speedmap and it looked awful. mind you the map was pretty bad to begin with... ;) 
Dunno if anyone has answered your Q1rad question, if not then here ya go:

"Coloured light, how?"

use the -exportlit cmd line parm when compiling light.

"light emitting surfaces, any way to stop them being so bright?"

No... :( Unfortunately not, it sucks yeah. Best way to get around it is use light textures with very very dark borders so that the visual effect is subdued / eliminated in MOST cases, or use a light texture where the "light" covers the entire texture, with no border etc..

Happy fun whay! 
q1rad coolness again, try messing with the "-smooth x" option, its fucking lovely, x=max angle q1rad will smooth the light around, set this at around 25-30 and a 12 sided cylinder looks like a 120 sides cylinder, cool effect! 
Radiosity is the sawk, I've gone back to trusty old TyrLite. That said, that 'smooth' function sounds interesting - but I can't be arsed to convert all of my coloured lights back into the stupid format that Q1rad needs, instead of the sensible format that TyrLite & co use. And anyways, I don't really like the light-saturating effect that radiosity has.

Cheers anyway! 
did you try -bounce 0 and what light brightness settings were you using for your surfacelights? 
What's the point of using a radiosity lighting tool with bounce turned off? 
so you can say "I make teh map look sexeh MOH YEAH!!!"

like duh... :D 
I'm With LTH 
Doesn't bounce 0 mean no radiosity? I'm confused...

: ) 
My comment is, hurrah!

Thank you all the hard work, aguirRe. 
"radiosity" refers to bouncing light, sure, but in our line of work, it's usually paired with light emitting surfaces. So, if you want light emiting surfaces, but don't care about bouncing light, you might use bounce 0.

Yes, i'm very drunk. And i can still type better than you. 
As previously stated, I don't care about light emitting surfaces, since they look crap. 
I typed that header with my nipples. The amazing world of wireless. 
You must have some fucking big bitch tits to be able to type with them. 
Bob has bitch tits -- nope just a set of extremely cold nipples. 
Btw, LTH 
glad to see you on the func_board. Does that mean you are you mapping as much as you code these days? 
You could say that. 
Could you just explain the use of _sun_mangle for me: how are the two parameters used? 
x = yaw, y = pitch, z = placeholder. 
Thanks. I understand yaw and pitch but not 'placeholder'.

Sorry to be dense but I have never used _sunlight before: I am only trying it now after reading some comments by AguirRe in this forum.

I have a rather large (high) set of mountains in FMB12 and lighting them is proving difficult.

As a by the way, is 256 the largest texture size that can be used in Quake1 - I can see some pretty obvious tiling? 
'Placeholder' means just put zero; i believe it's needed becuase the compiler expects a vector, but only actually has a use for two or the numbers.

Re: texture size, first, check this:

Second, try scaling the texture up, or using more lighting variation to break up the large surfaces. (I know, "lighting variation" is contrary to the whole _sunlight aesthetic. But you could still put in some subtle point lights or antilights to create the needed variety.) 
placeholder is exactly that - it doesn't do anything, it's just necessary to convince the compile utils that you're using a 3-part vector. 
Doesn't HalfLife allow texture randomization? How does it do it? 
Thanks Guys 
(or gals!) 
Ha Ha Metlslime Is A Girl! 
Yes, Metlslime Is A Grrl 
More proof!

<goetz> metlslime is that u ?
<goetz> i thought u were male
<metlslime> i'm a hot japanese girl
<Auhsan> woa
<Auhsan> I love you metlslime
<metlslime> this explains why i never get laid, after all, who wants to have sex with a hot japanese girl?
<metlslime> nobody. I wish i was one of those skinny white computer geeks. They get all the sex.
<Auhsan> from their hands
<metlslime> heh
* metlslime cries
Help Again 
I am just trying to see the difference between using _sunlight or placed light entities in a map.

For some reason, light does not seem to work on my trial, 2055 brush, map. Here is the readout: -

4361 planes 87220
4252 vertexes 51024
2387 nodes 57288
6 texinfo 240
3888 faces 77760
13244 clipnodes 105952
1202 leafs 33656
4808 marksurfaces 9616
17010 surfedges 68040
8506 edges 34024
2 textures 130652
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 176

File: ter2.bsp
3 entities read, 1 are lights, 3888 faces

Light: 0.0%, Elapsed: 0:00
Light: 100.0%, Elapsed: 0:01

lightdatasize: 0
0 switchable light styles

Elapsed time : 0:02
BspBuild [Light complete]

The numbers mean nothing to me. Can anybody spot my (probably obvious) error? 
It Looks... 
like you only put on light entity:
3 entities read, 1 are lights, 3888 faces

sunlight needs: _sunlight # for intensity, and _sun_mangle x x x for direction. 
Having An Interesting, Albeit Annoying Problem... 
there's a phantom brush which has cropped up in my map which i'm trying to get rid of...

the problem is, the brush doesn't appear in gtkradiant, but when i compile the map, it is there, in quake. there's nothing wrong with the brush, other than it is a phantom... it's not super deformed or huge or any of the common problems...

any suggestions? 
Look in the readme for sunmangle details and some recommendations to start with. The third number, the "placeholder", isn't required at all anymore in my tools (but is accepted for compatibility).

In your log printout, lightdatasize is 0, which means that there is no lights generated at all (the map is probably pitch black). There is one light entity (sunlight isn't counted as a light entity), but for some reason is doesn't generate any measurable light.

Send me the zipped map+wad and what tool arguments you're using and I'll try to find out why it doesn't work. 
Texture Randomisation 
I believe texture randomisation in HL is done with a naming convention, so to randomise between 3 textures you would name them

and so on. They probably have to have the same dimentions for this to work. 
Dumb question probably, but you're sure you don't have anything either filtered or hidden in-editor?

If not, try brush-cleanup (either plugins or a button, depending on what version you're running).

You could also try hiding all brushes in the area (select one-by-one and hide) and then doing a "select touching" in the empty space that's left and see if you get anything selected? 
Simultaneous Posting 
Necros, sunlight only needs the intensity value to be activated, the sunmangle is default 0,-90 (pretty boring zenith sunlight, though). Check out the readme for this and other related information.

As for the phantom brush, is it solid, i.e. not penetrable with rockets/player? 
Texture Randomization... 
i believe it works as preacher said, but as for the implementation, i think it subdivides the face into polygons (just like quake does, actually) and each polygon of the original face gets one of the 3 textures in preacher's example. 
like you only put on light entity ... sunlight needs: _sunlight # for intensity, and _sun_mangle x x x for direction.

necros: _sunlight and _sun_mangle are keys, not entities. They both go in the worldspawn entity. 
I have two test maps: one is lit via the _sunlight key in the worldspawn entity, and the other is lit by one light entity with no entry in the worldspawn.

I wanted to see how _sunlight lit the map as I saw some advantages when considering how many light entities my map would require (it is not a big map in terms of depth and width, but is fairly high due to some pesky mountains.

I will take up aguirRe's offer to see what he can tell me. Thanks everyone. 
E-mail on its way. I forgot to mention that I use Bsp Editor. 
You mean it would be possible to write a bsp compiler for Quake that does it, then?

AguirRe, Riot, whoever, get to it! :P 
pjw: yep, i'm sure it's not just filtered or something :)

aguire: It appears to be a completly solid brush, but it doesn't appear to be a extension from another one, because i've removed all the brushes surrounding it, and this brush is still there, in the middle of nowhere...

metlslime: yeah, i meant to say: "it looks like you only put one light" -- forgot the e. 
The GreenHorn And The PAKfile 
As I am working on a PAK file, and adding all kind of Quake1 bsp's into it, I got rather confused of the size of these maps.

As I really got Zombie by betatesting, this strange appearance overcame to me.

First I had some maps I laid my hands on, and I was quiet happy to play them.
Then I decided to make them attached to eachother and turned my gloomed eyes to this board to find some knowhow.

At first the maps were small enough to be played under the safe surroundings of Windows.
But as I learned a lot of you and was pinching the maps to a higher level, it suddenly freaked me by getting the Alloc_hunc error.

It wasn't worrying me, because I was in the opinion that with the -winmem16 option it would go as smooth as possible.
Now experimenting with these PAKfiles I came to the conclusion I had to make a choice.

Or I would make a PAKfile what would play under every circomstances in the Window surrounding, but than it would be the one with the smallest maps and therefore the crappy one. But at least noone would get stuck on this Alloc_hunk error, what is in my opinion the worst buck I could imagine.

Or I would be as stubborn as I am, and just load all the maps with their sizes of some even 2.2Mb in the PAK file and think that when one would like to play it, one ought to size ones computer to the DOS standard and get along with it. This last one is one of my own appealings.

Still I have the idea it is a reasonable question to ask, because I have found myself to much times grumbling behind this alloc_hunc error after having a lot of fun with a pak of files.

In fact it is the same question as trying to make the levels to ID standards, and by doing so making the chance of distroying it under its own cummalating weight.

You may find I make to many words for a small question as this, but after sending a lot of maps to all the ones who were willing to take a look at it, where I am still gratefull for, I wanted to know what you single super mappers out there would think of this question from this poor little sod out in the Quake Universe.

And please don't ask if I was drinking again,
because I begin to see every pack of ammunition for a 6pack of beers... 
because I begin to see every pack of ammunition for a 6pack of beers... :)

anyway, if you're asking if it would be ok to make players use the -winmem 16 (or -heapsize 16000) command line when playing your maps, then the answer is yes. in fact, almost all my maps have needed -winmem 16 or even -winmem 32 to play. don't worry. just include a little note in your readme about how to do it and it should be fine. 
Stupid Question 
Do lavaballs counts as edicts?

and please don't tell me they do 
What necros just said. That memory error message isn't a problem at all for most Quake players today, don't worry about it.

There are probably other more important issues you might worry about in your pak, e.g. visuals, gameplay, flow etc. 
Phantom Brush 
Necros, you can send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it. You'll probably have to tell me where the brush is (and isn't supposed to be) as well. 
They do. Also, every lavaball that the (invisible) misc_lavaball entity throws counts as well. 
Who Cares? 
Really, why is anyone bothered about edict limits anymore? There are plenty of engines out there that abolish them. 
There Also Aren't Very Many Software Engines With Increased Edicts 
And What Really Sucks... being forced to use a different engine just to play one map. 
Presumably the Nehahra software engine bumps the edict count?

And if it does, why not just use that one *all the time*?

You mapperse are so stuck in the past :P 
Nehahra Software Engine? 
Please, point me in its direction. 
GeForce Fx Ti 4 Series -- 90 Bucks 
Time not worrying about software mode compatabilaty -- priceless 
there's tyr-quake, which is basically the regular software quake with many limits removed. a good alternative, i think. 
has also more windowed video modes and is much less fussy with troublesome bsps. Very useful when hunting leaks and other stuff.

Necros: What's going on with your email attachments? I'm still not receiving them, are they very big or are they filtered somewhere? 
Removing DM-bodies 
Is there a way (without QC) to avoid player bodies remaining visible after suicide (with kill command) in DM? Or at least shorten the time until they vanish.

I'm still working on the auto-screenshot generator and it looks weird when after some screenshots, a lot of bodies are all over the place. 
aguirre: use zquake 
DM Bodies 
In the killer pack, dead bodies remain and don't disappear.. They stay "solid" for the player during the game... Perhaps there is a model you can re-use to modify a little the game to perform this feature..
Enjoy !!! 
I thought nehahra.exe was software. If it's not, then please set me straight. 
Nehahra Is GL Only 
Which is where Neh Nekkid (software version) comes in, but Mindcrime never released that. 
i know! get a model program and open up the player.mdl from the pak0.pak

now, delete all but one triangle from the model. 
Thanks For The 
suggestions, I'd hoped that there was an easier way like an engine cvar.

I started to fiddle with the player.mdl also but realized that if I do that, I can just as well fix it in QC (and actually fix some other problems too). 
Sweeping The Bodies Under The Carpet... 
I can't remember if this is the case with player bodies, but if they're removed on a timer, you could set host_framerate to a very high value(say 10000) so that time passes very quickly. Otherwise the qc method works well too. 
Fraid Not 
Bodies disappear at the rate that the player spawns - there's a body queue of about length 4 to which new bodies are added. 
How About... 
setting r_drawentities to 0? 
The CopyToBodyQue 
in the respawn function was what I commented out to get rid of the bodies without any obvious side-effects.

r_drawentities affects also all ammo, weapons etc so it's too coarse, I want the shots to look as original as possible.

I'm now trying to make the player rotate in any deathmatch or monster position for each suicide, but it seems tricky.

Is there an explanation of all variables/members (e.g. entity.chain) and lower level functions (e.g. find/findradius) available somewhere? 
There's A Qc Manual Out There... 
sadly, i don't have it in electronic form anymore... 
Right After 
I posted I realized that maybe I should try Google first ...

Anyway, I found one here . It appears to be what I was looking for. Together with the Inside3D tutorials, I hope it'll be more clear. 
Animated Texture 
I have a little problem, a basic one perhaps because I'm a beginner in Quake mapping... anyway... I want tu use some "animated texture": I mean a texture defined with several different one that performs an animation in the game, for example a flame on a wall (see +0light01 +1light01 +2light01 in ID software Light basic textures). I select the first texture (hopng the compiler to "link" the 2 others with it) and I certainly missed something, because during the game, there is no "animated" effect on the concerned brush..
Is there anyone who can help me please... 
try applying other frames on the faces you won't see in the game but these frames will be included into the bsp file...
i do that all the time, compilers i use never add other frames. and i'm not sure if they should... 
...surely compilers really ought to add all the animations into the map by themselves - there's no time when you're using an animated texture when you don't want it to animate, is there? 
Animated Textures 
Clearly, I want to use an animated texture, and keep the animation feature during the game !! My problem is the animated texture is blocked on the first one, and the "animation" is never performed...
Am I missing something in the compilation option or something else ?? I don't know, so any advices is welcomed 
as i said, apply other frames of the sequence on some brushes in your map and you'll get the animation working... just apply them on the faces that will get cut off by qbsp.exe and won't be visibl ein the game. but they'll be used by the button, etc.. 
#@*%&@## !!! 
AAAaaaahhhh !!! It's not a bug it's a feature !!! For the compiler: having in its texture list the missing ones for the animation is a turnaround.... So even if some brushes are cut and not used, but textured with those required for the animation, the brush that uses the animated one will have a complete list and then the game will performed the required effect ... OK, I understand now... I'm sorry... but sometimes for me, understanding quickly says to past a long time in explanantions... ;-) !!
it's a stupid bug in earlier compilers...
aguire's treebsp fixes that too 
i use bengt's qbsp and it doesn't picks other frames anyway.... dunno why. 
DuBSP does it okay. 
Animated Textures 
I'm certainly no expert on these, but the compiler definitely checks for texture names that begin with + and adds the extra frames as necessary. You can easily see this in the compiler log Added x texture frames.

Vondur: Versions of TreeQBSP prior to 1.95 (that includes DuBSP) doesn't show this message unless in -verbose mode. TxQBSP has always shown them. See also latest readme.

You don't have to apply the extra frames anywhere in the map; just make sure that they are in the wad you're using, otherwise you'll get a warning.

I just tried it in a box map, apply the first of the animating textures (+0xxx) and the compiler will fix the rest. 
Can Anyone Explain Me 
what are clipnodes? What increases their amount apart from number of faces?

I heard about the clipnodes limit of about 32*** and just want to be carefull now. 
...anyone had a crack at modifying CZG's Worldcraft quake.fgd to include Bengt's new lighting options? If yes, might you kindly make it available? 
Hey Couple Things 
Pulsar: Clipnodes are simply clip surfaces. Each surface exposed to the inside of a level (not the void) clips the player (he can run into it, over it, etc). In DM maps, people often cover intricate areas (ruined bricks for example) with a wide brush with the clip texture. The clip texture makes a brush using it clip as normal (blocks the player that is), but is invisible in-game. If you're still confused, let me know (My latest maps all original have run over the clipnode limit). I owe aguirRe a lot for helping me out with this.

And, hey: does anyone want to do a bit of work for me modifying weapons models? I'd do it myself, but my qME must be an inferior version or something since all I can do is view, not change anything on the models or alter any animations (argh). 
To Clarify 
If a bunch of brushes overlap without any space between them, that doesn't clip since the player can't go there. That's why clipping brushes lower the amount of clipnodes - a surface with 25 tiny little bricks all the same height on the ground, could be covered with one clip brush and would then clip as one brush rather than as the 5 sides exposed on each brick. 
Mail me what you want doing with those models. 
Texture Application 
Hello, thanks to those who helped me for my "animated textures" problem yesterday.. Just another thing: when you apply texture to brush, it's possible to choose a scale factor to reduce/increase texture size.. I'm just looking for an easy way to choose this scale factor and anticipate the "game view" thet will performs. Is there someone who can give me some advices conerning this topic ??
don't play with scales too much, use default scale. otherwise the map might look crappy. personally i use slightly scaled textures on some faces that aren't texture size so i have to scale non-tiled texture a bit for it to fit. uder a bit i mean something likt 0.95 or 1.05 scale.
yet huge tex scale is useful when you make sky. it's good idea to use scale of sky texture something like 100. this will reduce polycount of sky surface. 
The default scale is set to 1 in QuArK6.4.0, and it seems to be a little big, because the map look crappy with this size... I mean the texture details are very visible without "putting your nose" on a brush (bit definition of the texture appears...) I made some try with 0.4 up to 0.5, and the map looks better (bit definition of the texture disappears even if you "put your nose" on the brush)... Perhaps the texture scaling is different from one tool to another one... I don't really know how to find an efficient turnaround of this little problem without making many try.. Is there a method, or anything else, that can show me what is the good scaling method (if I decide to change of mapping tool for example) ? 
try looking at the textures in start.bsp, you'll get the idea of default proper scaling... 
OK, there is no real method to anticipate the map looks like otherwise trying and compare the results with existent maps... It's also possible that it misses something else in my tool configuration... I will check this this evening

where did I raise this bull? 
i'm not sure, but i think that's the error when you have too many textures (as in filesize) the limit is 2mb, so check to see if you are over it. 
You're Referring To 
MAX_MAP_MIPTEX (originally 2MB), which is the actual size of all textures in bsp. MadFox has hit another limit (originally 4096) which is the max # different texture info objects in bsp.

This number normally increases when you have many different textured faces in different positions/angles and it typically gets pretty high when using QuArK ETP or Hammer Valve 220 map format due to them capable of more complex texture positioning.

MadFox, I assume that you're still using the qbsp256 compiler and apparently it cannot cope with your current map requirements.

If you want to stick with that compiler, you must lower the texinfo requirements. See if you can change map format from QuArK ETP to Classic Quake in the configuration (I'm not sure you can do this in v4.07).

Otherwise you must use a newer compiler with a higher limit. Email me directly if you need more help regarding this issue. 
Thanks For The Info 
I lowered the polyhedron count.
I used 1244 polyhedrons, every brush more crashes the compiler.
So I stick to this limit by sharing out brushes and delete stairs etc.

I wish I understood that MipTex Acracadabra
but it is all right, nevermind.
As long as the map compiles. 
i'm not sure, but i think that's the error when you have too many textures (as in filesize) the limit is 2mb

Haven't expected that I'm close to another limit, this time of 2 mb textures. I have 1.9+ mb of them.

Is it a limit of tools or of the engine? 
Damn Tag I Forgot To Close 
and I forgot to thank Tronyn for explanation, it was very useful 
Tex Limit 
that used to be 2 MB is only "limited" in one of my tools, TxQBSP (16 MB, which should be sufficient for a while ...). All other tools are "unlimited", i.e. theoretically 2 GB. 
Anyone Interested 
Anyone interested in converting some Hexen II enemies to Quake? Specifically, I'm thinking the Hexen II mummy, which would fit in perfectly with the Night Journey's egyptian theme... I mean, uh, I'm not working on the Night Journey... uhm..

And, the Hexen II Skull Wizard would work well in the Arcane/Bookshelf project as well of course.

PuLSaR: No problem, glad to help. 
Lava Light 
This issue came up some time ago, have you tried putting a delay 3 light with intensity 100 just above the lava surface as a spotlight, directed straight down and with a cone of 180 degrees?

If used with a slightly flickering style, it has an interesting glowing effect. This doesn't glow upwards of course, but maybe it could be combined with some other lights for better result? 
QBSP Error 
I have a strange error with QBSP during portalize process..

WARNING:CutNodePortal_r:new portal was clipped away

I currently use QuArK6.4.0, and the tool makes a "hole found in map" error (while hole checking doesn't find one !!!???)... The map is generated, but the PRT file required by VIS tool is not generated due to the portalize process problem.
Is there anyone who can tell me where to look for ??? Or if there is a turnaround to bypass the problem ???

Take A Look 
at my Q1 ToolTips at
Great !!! It solves the problem: TxQBSP found a misaligned texture... And QuArK locates the problem very easily...
Thanx !!
Is _sunlight affected by the number of sky brushes in use in a map: I am joining several maps where there are many sky brushes used to 'seal' the individual maps (some 30 individual brushes of varying dimensions). These end up in my new map in various height positions lelative to each other e.g. a sky brush may be placed at +1024 units and another at -1024 units, whereas they were create at +2048 and +3072 units.

I suppose I am asking whether or not _sunlight calculates its 'sunshine' from each sky brush and that if sky brushes are at differing heights, is the resulting 'sunshine' going to look different according to the distance between the sky and the ground. As it were... 
Having just hit Submit, I realise that I am probably asking this question of aguirRe more than anyone else. Still, others may be interested? 
Amount Or Distance 
of sky brushes are irrelevant. The basic thing that matters is if a certain face can "see" a sky brush, i.e. a straight line can be drawn between the face and any sky brush. This is all that is required for indirect sunlight (sunlight2, outdoor minlight) to hit the face.

For direct sunlight, the line must also have the right angle as specified in sunmangle. 
Got it, thanks. 
Space Skybox 
I'm looking for a skybox of empty space, nebulas, etc. If you know where I can get one, please help!

Conversion To Ultimate Deathmatch Mod Format
LTH, if you can make some models for UD let me know. Enjoy... :)

I'v found that speed maps suit my needs for maps for the mod. I'v patched Koohoo with the author's permission, so you can gib the end monster. Conversion of maps(speed maps mostly) by zwiffle, than, rpg, necros, xen, and a few others i'll be starting soon.

Just the changing entity lists, keeping the original flow of the game for sp. For dm, adding the mod specific items. Have many picked out, trying to narrowing it down.

If you have a problem with this let me know. No disrespect for map authors is intended. Can't find mappers, so I have to do it myself.

I'm a crap skinner. If you can get past that, I can make technical (ie. not monster) models. I'm quite busy right now though, so tell me what you need and I'll see if I can find the time.

And none of those skyboxes are 'empty space / nebula', which is what I'm looking for. 
HOM Problem 
I have an HOM problem in my map during the game.. TxQBSP, RVIS and ARGHLITE processes are OK , and map size is about 500 ko only... This is the first time I face this problem. How can I prevent my map from HOM problem ??? 
See Post #1275 
Thanx for your help, but, what link(s) is(are) able to help me ?? I have no idea about what to look for...
Sorry, It Appeared 
above in your post #1276 as if you already found the Q1 Tooltips and got help from it. Anyway, look in the bottom right corner of my site or click here: .

If you still need help with your HOM, you can send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it. 
I had no idea UD has single player capabilaties. I have some older levels on my harddrive I could fix up for the mod, and I have a mindflayer model I made for the original Thief I would be glad to convert to Quake mdl format. So if you are interested I'll work them over this coming weekend. 
OK, I found the stuff... it seems to be a problem coming from RVIS... As you explain in the tooltip text file (thanks for the related link...), I try "gl_clear 1" and "r_novis 1" command from the console, and it solves me the HOM problem...
I will check all the brushes, and try to realign all textures if required... Thus I will see if HOM remains... otherwize perhaps there exists some compilation options I forgot... I'm very curious about those you currently use... I have to improve and optimize my process...
Biff Debris? 
This guy made a couple texture packs that fleshed out the standard base, and metal id textures. In them he used a stone texture in combination with some of the tech textures to produce a very cool looking set of hall/wall textures. Unfortunnatly it doesnt look like the actuall stone texture got included in the WAD. Id "really" like to get a matching stone texture to go with the others. Does anyone know where I can get it or maybe contact Biff Debris? Id like to use these textures in my first mapping attempt, but not having the base stone texture is a bummer.

Thanks! FaT. 
I'm assuming that you're referring to the rok_la* or _re* texes, and those were made by Asaki. The stone texture itself is cliff1, which I've got -- but dunno where I got it from. If you would like, I could send it to you via email -- unless someone else might know what .wad it originally resided in... 

I am a compulsive collector, if you've got links to, or .wad files of any interesting textures feel free to send them to me. One thing though since I am using yahoo, there is a size limit of 1 or 1.5 megs imposed on emails recieved.

Btw great texture sets! There are detail textures in them that I have been wishing for for years. Ive made several not to successful attempts to modify some of the exsisting id textures to suit my purposes. But so far I wouldnt show any of them to my parents, much less to the public.

Anyhoo, thanks again! FaT. 
If it's the same one I'm thinking of, it came from the Rogue mission pack. 
Sent =D 
Just fired off a little .wad with the texture to you -- ahh, technology. 
Yes the internet is a wonderful thing.

I looked through the rogue wad and didnt see it. I have had my doubts as to the completeness (that a word?) of some of the id and crew .wads out there.

Screwy thing now is worldcraft keeps telling me the .bsp for my level wasnt built. Its rather anoying... 
Stupid Question... 
about Bengt jardrup's tools. There are alot of files with the .c extention. Would I be assuming correctly that these are source files and do not need to be installed into my worldcraft tools directory? 
all you need are the .exe files 
all you need are the .exe files 
i double posted! 
Missing Texture 
I have a missing texture in the .bsp and it is not visible in the game. However, I have looked through the .map file and cannot find the name of the texture to enable me to change it.

I know I do not need to do anything... but I want to.

So, fellow mappers, is there a tool to check the .bsp to get the name of the texture. Alternatively, how can I easily locate this missing texture? 
If You Have 
built the bsp from a map file, just check the compiler log.

AFAIK, it's not possible to see in the bsp which texture (i.e. name) that is missing, because it's ... missing.

If you can't see it in-game, it's probably some kind of a clip/trigger texture. Surprisingly many released bsps have missing textures. 
SZ_GetSpace: 8098 Is > Full Buffer Size 
Too many entities. Right?

But does this mean to many edicts or just too many brushmodels? Or both?

And also: Am I correct thinking that ambient sounds don't count as edicts or other bad things with low limits? 
Missing Texture 
WARNING 16: Texture bodiesa3_1 not found

Thanks again, aguirRe

I usually have -verbose turned off and just did not think. (Too busy checking the �re weather whilst compiling my map file!) 
Ambient Sounds 
count as edicts. 
It's Bad 
Pretty Much 
every entity, except for lights which aren't switchable or have a "style" set to them are edicts. that doesn't include torches and flames -- these are "static entities" and have a limit all their own. 
Func_illusionary also a static entity, and therefore not an edict. 
What's Wrong? 
So I received a demo from a map I sended.
Unzipped it with Dzip, and placed it in my
Quake directory. Openend the map that was related to, and gave the console the option:
playdemo test1.dem

Still I receive the -can't open test1.dem- 
Here's What's Wrong 
you should put it in the /id1/ directory, not the quake directory 
I Did 
won't work. 
"Just fired off a little .wad"

Bet you did ^_~ 
What Does It Mean... 
What does it mean when I get a 'Reached occupant at XYZ, no filling performed' error, not in FillOutside but in GrowRegions (hull 2 to be precise)?

You don't need to tell Quake that the file is a .dem, so just type "playdemo test1" 
...still lurking, good to see. Can we expect a release soon ;P (seems to be the go with some of the old krew). 
thanks, I'll note that 
Against All Ods 
Had the same rubbish with the Dzip file Necros sended me. Don't know what it is. After months I was able to read the demo file.
Same goes with this one. Done all I could, even without the *.dem option, but it won't work.

Think the Orges are conspiring against me, after they noticed I turned them up in a Mission pak.

But nevermind, if they catch my real name, I still have time enough to establish my firewall and jumppath... 
you just have a leak in hulls 1/2. GrowRegions has nothing to do with it, leaks always occur in FillOutside.

Load up the game with the pts file and see where the leak is. I suggest you also take a look at my Q1 ToolTips at .

If you still can't fix the leak, send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it. 
glquake/winquake crash without any errors when I enter large open area in my map. I suppose it happens because of edicts, but Tyrquake says there are only 560+ edicts there, not >600

Im not sure, should any error tell me about edicts overflow when crashing? 
You won't overflow the edict count by going into an area with many edicts - the edict count is static. 
I Know 
but I noticed that edicts grow up a little (about 20-30) from their ammount in the begining of the map. And that area is the second area from the start room. 
rockets and nails count as edicts, as well as gibs, so if you gib alot of guys while shooting rockets and there are nail traps firing at you, you can go over the limit.

you should try to keep about 60 edicts free for this kind of stuff, and even that is close. 
you should try to keep about 60 edicts free for this kind of stuff, and even that is close.

Well, let's kill some... ammo crates and medkits:)

seriously, I need to free at least 20 edicts, that's bad;
it won't be easy, I've just completed placing monster on normal and now I need to fix it without destroing gameplay..:( 
the obvious solutions would be replacing lots of smaller ammo with less larger ammo...

you can look into monster spawning to help abit, especially if you already have the teleporting monsters set up... you can get rid of like 3 edicts there: the trigger, the teleport trig and the teledest ent.

also, you can code a thing to remove corpses, that way you get an edict back everytime you kill something...

and, of course, change the gameplay -- less health and less monsters.

good luck. i ran into the same problems with most of my newer levels :\ 
the obvious solutions would be replacing lots of smaller ammo with less larger ammo...

oh, there's already no small ammo

but I think I have to remove some teleporing monsters 
Teleporting Monsters 
Pulsar: I think what Necros is talking about is using a QC patch to make the monsters teleport in, rather than removing them completely. There are patches that allow you to set a flag on a monster, which will 'teleport' it in when triggered. That way you wouldn't need the entities he listed. Of course, then your map isn't properly playable without the custom QC patch...

Perhaps an alternative for an ambush would be to have the monsters that currently teleport in behind a door that will slide away to reveal the monsters. That way, instead of three entities per monster, you'd just have 1 entity to set up the entire attack. 
Of course, then your map isn't properly playable without the custom QC patch...

so? include it in a pak file. pak files are never frowned upon these days. 
However, it does mean that you can't play the map in any other mod. 
Spawning monsters in beats the hell out of setting up teleportations (rooms, monsters, triggers). 
Why Would You Do That In The First Place? 
obviously, you'll be screwing up the gameplay of the map which was not meant to be played with other mods.

you could play the original quake with a mod which permanently gives you quad damage, but why would you want to? (barring doing it for fun) 
So... you would never want to play a map in Nehahra, for example? 
What about coop in QW? QW requires its own progs.dat, keep in mind. 
I have several mods I like to play old maps in. I made Black Ops and Battlemech specifically to reuse maps with no progs customizations. 
rpg: i figured there'd be exceptions like this but i hadn't bothered thinking about them. the way i see it (for those exceptions) is that if you want to play a map in another mod than what the map was intended to be played in, it should be the mapper's fault if you can't and the mapper shouldn't feel restrained from making his own changes codewise for his map because some people won't be able to have fun with other mods.

also, is it not possible to use the nehahra engine without the progs? or did you actually mean to use the new ai and stuff?

as for lth: to reuse maps with no progs customizations. (emphasis added)
there you go. ;) 
Preach Or Anyone Who Knows These Things... 
Where can I find the "QC patch to make the monsters teleport in", and how is it used? 
Unless you're referring to a specific patch I'm unaware of you don't need one, just do this:

set a func_trigger or trigger_multiple (I haven't touched WC in months so if I'm wrong guys correct me)... make a box room somewhere outside of your map, place a trigger_teleport brush on the bottom, give it a target. Place the info_tele_destination or whatever that one is whre you want the monster to spawn at. GIve it the name you gave the target field in the trigger_teleport brush.

Inside that box room put the monster(s) you want in there. 
Thanks, but I knew that bit. I'm referring to the posts #1326 and #1328 above. It suggests other ways of achieving teleporting. 
One of the mission pack progs has spawning monsters, meaning you don't place the monster in the editor, the trigger actually generates a monster during play. I think it's the hipnotic progs.dat but I'm not sure. There's also an example map... somewhere... keep googling. 
I meant with the new AI and stuff. 
Teleporting Monsters Patch 
I figured I'd have a go at this, seeing as some of the versions I've seen have issues with telefragging/stuck monsters and monsters freezing for a second after teleporting. Mod and source at:
There's a readme in there, but basically set the monster's style to 1 and target it to teleport it in. 
I meant with the new AI and stuff.

well, see, that would count as screwing up the gameplay to me. it'll be a lot harder to play, so you could experience ammo shortages, lack of health, etc... stuff you would never know if you had played it the way it was meant to be played. ;) 
That Was The Way The Nehahra Maps Were Designed 
From what Bal told me, none of the mappers knew the game was going to be so difficult; otherwise they would have put in more ammo and such. 
Brush Merging 
I am using BspEditor and do not want to change (having recently tried several others) but I do have a bit of a problem with its Merge Brushes feature. I have a 12,000 brush map that I want to reduce in size and BspEditor takes an age e.g. the base for this particular map is 4000 brushes and the merge function takes (took) 8 hours. In addition, if the PC is 'touched' during merging the program crashes.

So, can anyone recommend a brush merge facility? And no, I do not want to do it by hand!! 
Delete It All And Start Again... 
kidding, of course ;D

I think you may be stuck with toughing out 8 hour merges... GtkRadiant is the only other editor that has a CSG merge command, and that only works for selected brushes to join into 1 brush... you'd basically have to go thru your whole map merging everything you want together. This may be a faster/easier process in the end, so keep it in mind.

btw, 12,000 brushes? 'whoa'. 
merge it in bsp, then export to .map, then open that .map in radiant, continue your map there, and merge as you go. 
Spawning Monsters 
Hipnotic/Ritual's Scourge of Armagon mission pack has an entity called a func_spawn, which allows you to "teleport in" anything - ammo, keys, monsters, func_kitchen_sink, anything. With the right flags or whatever, you can use it more than once.

Zerst�rer uses spawnflag 64 on monsters to delay their spawning. No teleport effect, and I think there is a slight delay after spawning, since it basically holds off on starting the monster until use. 
Why do you want to merge brushes, am I missing something here? The 12k brushes are no problems for the compilers, except for sheer processing time, that is. 
12000 Brushes !?! 
thats quite a lot, isnt it? =) 
I'd Say So, Yes. 
I was wondering the same. I use to get similar sizes when I experimented with mesh to brush programs but as you can see that is a lot of trouble to deal with if that is the source of the magnitude here. If it just so happens that 12000 brushes is the number of brushes Mike arrived at more power to him. Even my largest maps have been less than 4000 when built entirely in editor. 
Merging Brushes 
I want to merge to a) cut down compile times and b) to speed up the 3d window view; because I have not finished the map yet.

I really do not want to have to learn a new editor. I favour compiling two or three times per maping session, especially as this part of the map is a definite "make it up as you go along" area.

Ho hum, I figure that if I start merging before I go to bed on a workday, it should be finished by the time I come home from work the following noght. That gives the merge program some 16 hours. 
do you only have to merge once, or every time you want to compile? And do the compile times really drop enough to make up for the time spent merging? 
Only once. But I am impatient!

Problem solved - I have dug my old PC out of the cupboard and I am getting on with the next section of the map whilst the one-time merge of the terrain section is run on the old machine. Now it doesn't matter if it takes two days.

Also, having played around with aguiRe's lighting program, I now know that I can build the whole thing from smaller sections and will not have a lighting consistency problem when I join the maps at a later stage.

Finally, and this would also solve a lot of the issues for me, I seem to remember playing a set of maps that were linked through one map. Rather like a start map that you returned to and the effects of your previous visits were still evident e.g. the bodies remained, doors were still open, ammo that you took on a previous visit were not replaced.

Have I got the right game? 
Don't Think So 
However, numerous solutions to 'hub' maps have been bandied about over on
I think the consensus is that you can do it for a very few objects with minor QC patching, or for more objects only with engine modding. 
Oh Well, 
...back to the 12,000 brush map then. 
In my next version of Light, I've added something I call local minlight which may help joining together map parts that have different ambient requirements.

Local minlight is created by new delay 4 lights that are similar to delay 3 lights, but non-additive and they can go below the global minlight. These lights "cast minlight" which I hope can be quite useful.

This makes it rather flexible in creating different ambient levels in different areas. 
... how about how kind of 'range' keyvalue on it? 
'Finally, and this would also solve a lot of the issues for me, I seem to remember playing a set of maps that were linked through one map.'

Was it The Demon King perhaps? 
That's an excellent idea. 
Mapping For UD 
#1288 posted by HeadThump [] on 2004/03/01 16:29:34
I had no idea UD has single player capabilaties. I have some older levels on my harddrive I could fix up for the mod...

Great, currently the download times are insane on fileplanet. Post your email here and i'll get in contact with you. Use spam bot protection.

Thanks, as 
He He 
Actually, I shouldn't have any problems downloading it, but if you want to reach me directly should suffice.

I worked on a retexturing project this weekend, so it will be later in the week that I can rework those maps for you -- let's shoot for Thursday (and if my honey Leah Remini's butt gets any bigger, maybe even Wednesday). 
Thanks aguirRe.

HeadThump, no I've never played Demon King. I was sure it was a Quake level 'cause I remember thinking how convenient it was: I build my maps big which leads to problems but if you could transport between smaller maps without re-setting everything...

Managed to reduce the 12,000 brushes to 856, so BspEditor Merge Brushes really does work even if slowly. And it wasn't crashing, if the mouse or keyboard was used, the display simply stopped showing the number of brushes being checked. I noticed this because the hard drive light continued to flick. So, leave it alone and show some patience.

Finally, I remember a map or mod with particularly accurate Ogres - either it was the grenades being lobbed a long way or they were using rocket launchers/bazookers. Can anyone point me in the right direction please?

Regards, Mike 
Preach & Fat Controller 
Thanks, I will take a look. 
The Demon King is a Q1SP pak, look here:

Can't say I liked it though, especially its inter-map handling was bad and critical gameflow paths went via unmarked func_illusionaries etc. 
Holy Hell?! 
12000 to 856?
how does that work?! 
Mmmmm, seven years ago this was probably a great map to play. I had not seen it before.

AguiRe, I know you are very good at English, and I know the last sentence is English, and I recognise all of the words, and I know I should understand but I still don't understand "critical gameflow paths went via unmarked func_illusionaries". Is this something I, as a mapper of mediocre ability, should worry about?

What on earth is an unmarked func_illusionary? 
Brush Merging 
I haven't got a clue how the program works, but watching the disply suggests that it is taking each brush in turn and checking every other brush in the map to see if it can 'merge' the two. You have the option to merge selected brushes, those only with matching textures or those that fullfill some rather technical numerical parameters, which are way beyond my comprehension. After I had shut down all background tasks, it took about 4 hours to do.

It probably has a very clever algorithm to avoid double checking as one of the counters goes from 1 to the maximum number of brushes, and the other seems to always count to a number less than the maximum number.

The program was written by Yahn Bernier who is now on the Half Life2 (or is it Doom3) team. I have always used his editor it has the most Micrsoft feel of all that I have seen. Ooops, I might have given something away there.

Its only drawback is that the 3D window draws fairly slowly i.e. the more brushes in your map, the longer it takes to walk around, hence me always wanting to compile regularly to view the map.

Hope that helps. 
That Particular 
sentence was my [obviously] bad attempt to describe a situation in one of the tdk maps.

You had to cross a bridge by walking beside it (in thin air) and right after that, you had to "know" that you should walk right into a seemingly solid rock wall (unmarked) and thus find the path onwards to the next part of this puzzle pak.

Thus gameflow was very confusing, since you sometimes had to use invisible clipbrushes for support and then stumble through a func_illusionary brush to proceed.

Play the pak and you'll probably see what I mean. 
Ah, now I understand. It is not my kind of map at all: I have never liked attempts to mimic reality e.g. trees, normal buildings, furniture etc. Also wide open spaces with nothing going on.

Like I said earlier, seven years ago this was probably the dogs but some of our current mappers have moved everything on light-years ahead of this.

The only time I can remember clip-brushes alone being used for support successfully was in a map with an Indiana Jones theme and you had to cross a chasm using a 'leap of faith', just like Indie did :-) 
I e-mailed you re your mod but BT bounced it? 
Yes Demon King 
have some conceptually good ideas.

but the implementation was poor.

resulting in a somewhat frustrating experience. 
Mods And Sods 
Mike: yeah, typo in the e-mail in the readme there, should be andrew not andre. Hopefully that should get it through. 
The Demon King 
Am I the only one who gets reminded of bananas by the name "The Demon King"? 
You are. 
Demon King 
Field hockey. 
Google claims this is the Demon King. and I agree! 
Run Out Of Ideas. 
So I've built pretty much all of my new spacebase rubicon map (q1sp), but I've run out of steam.

All I need is a decent idea for a boss combat in order to gain the silver key. Answers on a postcard.

How About 
A mechanical Ridley from Metroid that does nothing except sitting in the right-hand corner looking sad, while you fire goddamned rockets into it's heart!

This might have been done before tho... 
Colored Lights... 
I've seen on some Quake 1 screenshot that it should be possible (I say "should" because I've never found a map performing that) to colored light entities. For Example, I would like to generate a red halo around a invicibility pentagram, or a blue one around a Quad Damage item, etc.. Who knows how to do that ??
those halos you see are standard GLQuake additions John Carmack added to those ents.

Colored light in standard Quake is impossible. It's added to most custom engines now, most using the .lit format. Basically you use tyrlight or another light program that supports it, and set all your lights you want colored with a 'color' key (may be differant, look in the light programs readme) set to the RGB values you want, like '255 0 255' for ugly neon purple. You'll now have a .bsp and a .lit. The map will light normally in standard Quake, or in a custom engine, as long as the .lit is in the /maps/ dir with the .bsp, it'll use the colored lights. 
Colored Liht 
and does arghlite support colored lights ? 
For colored lights, you need TyrLite. You can get it from Tyrann's website here: 
...also supports EVERYTHING arghlite has, loads more, so it's worth upgrading anyway. 
Colored Lights 
OK, TyrLite allows colered lights feature, I will try it as soon as possible... Just one more question...
Is it possible to add some RGB field values in QuArK entity descriptor (during light processing it should generate .lit file automatically), or do I need to write myself the .lit file, changing manually my needed RGB value...??

Colored Lights 
I don't know about QuArk, but I guess it would be similar, I use GTK Radiant, but you put in the key


and the values


X being a number between 0 and 255

If you aren't sure about what numbers would represent which colouors, you could find that info in Photoshop/Paint Shop Pro, by selecting the color and it will tell you the RGB values,
or gives you a little 216 color dodad that allows you to do the same.

You also need to add the -lit switch to your tyrlite compile process/bat file, eg

tyrlite.exe -extra -lit yourmaphere.bsp

that will create your .lit file for you, you don't create it yourself. 
Lenny Lurker 
Thanks, for the infos... I'll check TyrLite vs QuArK possibilities as soon as possible, hoping it will works the first time.. Otherwise is it also possible to generate a "blank" .lit file and replacing color field by what I want ???

That is an interesting way of spelling "Vondur" you have there on your Quake page :) 
Otherwise is it also possible to generate a "blank" .lit file and replacing color field by what I want ???

I am not entirely sure that we are both climbing the same tree, but I don't think that is the way to go, or indeed possible, if possible I am sure it would be time consuming.
Putting the key and values for the lights, in the entity dodad, in you level editor , is where it's at 
Damned Shit... 
That's not the correct typo of his name !!! He is going to kill me !!!...
OK, it's an big mistake, but I've build this website in 15 minutes yesterday by night, so be indulgent with me please...... I will correct this as son as possible... I apologies again ...
I've named some of the guys who help me since 1 month I started mapping... And I think there where some others will be added.. (perhaps a grouped thank should be better to avoid such error on name typo ;-)...)
As I said in a previous post, I'm a beginner in Quake mapping, and I'm currently building my first map, with my poor possibilities.. hoping it will be as good as possible..
.. I'm not able to download TyrLite... the fileplanet website rejects me (while I suscribed last month)... Could you send me a TyrLite version ??? You have my e-mail on my scrappy website... 
Just stick with it, and try to go through to the end, try not to ditch the map, it doesn't really matter if it's not up to other peoples standards or anything (there are some HIGH standards among this bunch) the main thing is that you enjoy what you are doing, the rest is a bonus. And you will only improve. 
It's On It's Way 
I Agree... 
.. I really found pleasure building my own map, and that's the most important for sure...
As I try to explain (perhaps not very clearly) on my website, it is a challenging way to improve my knowledges in mapping development.. even if I really begin in this "mapping world"...
When my first map will be released, I hope to have feedback about my work (by those who will try the map...)... more good feedback than bad will be pleasant naturally ;-))...
Thanks for TyrLite zip file... I will try it this evening...
Thanks again for your help...

Interested Parties... 
can probably download tyrlite here but I don't even remember what version it is :) 
About TyrLite 
Yes, you are right, it is posible to download a TyrLite v0.9... but Lenny had sent me his 0.95 this morning... Anyway, thank for the link, there also exists some texture to download... cool
/me Kills JPLambert 
go fix the typo! :) 
Don't be mean VonDrup! 
Is there a maximum gradient down which an Ogre cannot move?

I have an Ogre on a ledge and I want to ecourage him to move down a slope (not stairs, just a slope.) But he don't wanna do it! He just jigs around at the top of the slope. 
Is that like e-commerce, e-tailing or e-mail i.e. transmitting courage electronically?

NO! I meant encourage. 
Just put a little monster jump trigger on the top edge of the slope so he pops onto the slope and is free to roam. The problem you're having is due to the slope and the flat floor meeting and the orge not wanting to cross it. 
There Actually Is A Maximum Gradient... 
but i couldn't tell you exactly what it is, without going home and studying the source. It has to do with the ogre not wanting any of his bounding box corners to be too high off the ground, i think. 
JPLambert Or Lenny 
please email me Tyrlite 0.95 and I'll update the site. :) 
No problem. It has been sent. Also, you can download it from Tyrann's site (well FilePlanet actually), I just tried the link again, and it works fine. The file name says 0.95, at the top of the readme it says version 0.94, but scroll down the read me further to the change log stuff, and it says 0.95, It's listed as 0.95 on Tyrann's site so I guess that's what it is. 
Sorry about the typo error of your pseudo... I've not found time to fix it.. and sure it will be done as soon as possible, maybe this evening, or tomorrow... I apologize again... 
ok :) 
Well I've mirrored it now along with his nifty caulk-texture-in-q1 proggy which I forgot to add to the index, thank you ;) 

According to LTH, I think caulk in Quake is not a good thing.. (See post 1245 to 1249, thanks to Vondur help !!!)... Some map builders don't link automatically animated texture. The turnaround is to use unused brushe faces that will be cut off by QBSP...... So the texture list is completed...With a caulking tool, you avoid all animated texture effects.... bad idea... sorry... 
I remember this big argument over whether "skip" in q1 is the same thing as "skip" in q3 and I thought we decided it was actually the same thing as caulk...

whatever, it's a cool program :P 
caulk is skip in q3.

skip in q2 is a slightly differant animal I do believe. 
... how to turnaround animated texture probelm with caulk program ??? 
that's the thing... you don't... it has absolutely nothing to do with animated textures. dunno where that came from. 
Wc Help 
how do i add the map name to the bsp so it shows up when in the +showscores? 
In Worldcraft 
go to the "map" dropdown menu at the top and select "map properties", then there will be an entry for "map title" or somesuch, just plonk the name in there. 
I figured it would be in the map properties, but there is no 'map title'... ill just add it and see if it works. 
Titles In Worldcraft 
With the copy of the quake.fgd I have, the entry you need to add the name to is "text on entering the world", which is a little misleading on worldcraft's part, but works well enough 
What Preach Said 
but if all else fails...

use the 'add' button on the map properties window to create a new key called 'message' and set it to whatever you want to title your map 
Texture Difficulties 
Hey, I'm trying to make my entry for sm72, but when I did a quick test run I noticed that quite a few of the light textures were off. They'd usually be sixteen units off or so, and this always happened on the faces of brushes that were at 45 degree angles, I think. I guess I'll fix it manually, but does anyone know why that happens/how to fix it? 
qbsp -oldaxis

i'm not sure which compilers support this, but i know treeqbsp and its variants do. 
Wasn't It 
Axis Options 
It's -oldaxis in all TreeQBSP/DuBSP variants as metl says, -alternateaxis in wqbsp and TxQBSP doesn't need this option at all.

All above applies when using WorldCraft 1.6, possibly when using other versions or editors too. 
Help With Texmex 
I have used Texmex on and off for ages. I built some new wads last week (just extracts of other wads, no new textures) and went to edit one of these today and Texmex no longer displays!

A window opens and the titile bar clearly shows the wad I have opened but the window is a blank white screen.

Anyone had this before? 
I've Actually Had 
this problem too in the last couple of days, since I've been testing a lot of texture stuff.

TexMex seems to have problems, especially with wad3 files and the palettes. I previously thought that TexMex should be doing this right, but now I'm not so sure anymore.

I've seen it trashing texture entries when converting to wad3 format. Mike, the wad you're opening might be corrupt. If you wish, you could send the zipped wad to me and I'll try to see what's wrong.

I'm currently working on a wad utility DupWad, that can delete textures from a specific wad that already exist with the same name in other wads. 
Aha! It is obviously the 13th March Texmex bug that disables all versions of Texmex?

The .wad file in question loads OK in my BspEditor and is usable, and Texmex will not load any of my other .wad files.

I am using Wally and AdQuedit instead so it is not the end of the world. But Texmex was my preferred utility.

Thanks for your offer and what on earth are you doing with the weather over there? The temperature is set to rise to +4C on Wednesday and that's when I land. It'll be like a giant Slushpuppy up there. 
The Red Stuff 
you see coming down the slopes is just some *lava we put there for your enjoyment ...

I'd still appreciate the zipped wad to see what's causing the TexMex problem. 
Wad Is On Its Way... 
And by the way, I am watching a program called "Avalanche Alert" on UK TV right now! 
Curve And Arch 
Where can I found an "easy" mathematical description to understand clearly how works Bezier Curve and Arch tool shaper ?? In QuArK, this feature is really to "lightly described" to have a complete understood of the stuff...
Gorgot My Last Post... 
I've found what I was looking for with
More Texture Problems 
Though of a different variety. I recently downloaded the quake 2 wad off of RPG's .wad page, and when I loaded it up in WC the textures looked very odd. When I loaded the wad file up in Texmex it looked fine. I emailed RPG about this and he wasn't sure what the deal was either. I don't really know how to describe the way the textures looked... fucked up should suffice. Does anybody know whats up with this file? 
open up the wad in texmex, delete the palette. let it convert the textures to Quake palette and save the wad (or save it as something differant if you want). I don't see any differance myself... but anyway, after doing this, the textures will appear normal in WC. 
And To Be Clearer... 
by 'the palette' I mean, the texture at the bottom of the wad named palette. 
that worked perfectly, thanks for your help. 
Modeling For Ultimate Deathmatch 
#1283 posted by LTH I can make technical (ie. not monster) models.

Great, did you get my email?

#1283 posted by LTH: "I'm quite busy right now though" 
Maping For UD 
Not my question, I read that part. Did you recieve my email? So, I know I have a valid email to contact you with.

I got one from you a while back, yes. 
About Gamma Field... 

I would like to have further information about gamma field use.. I've heard some of you calling about this feature but it remains mysterious for me... Is there someone who can explain me the stuff ???

Help! Someone causes gammabusters.... 
I've read your post 742 in screenshot and beta thread and it seems you used this feature... how to deal with this stuff ?? Can you breafly explain me ??? 
Pale Moon 
Screenshots of Quake always look dark and blurry, so I load them in PaintShopPro and then use the Adjust => Gamma => 1.80
By doing this the whole picture becomes more bright to look at.
I find this better then the original, because it compensates the dimm colours of screenshots.

If you mean a game option in the Quake-engine for -gamma field use- , I am fishing with Cassini... 
Oh, that's it... I thought it was a mapping feature or a compilation option that increases global light level.. (like -light option with TyrLite tool)... I've made this manipulation using ULead Pals2Go software (Photo modification and morphing software), but the result is not very good (see my web site at : the screenshots are still very dark...) anyway..
I think I have to made more test to find a turnaround of this problem..
Don't Listened To My Babling... 
you could be right for the mapping feather, which I don't know...

I was only joking about it, that's why I can't see the difference between Neptune & Saturn.

PaintShopPro has a trial version, it could entlighten your screenshots hughly! 

i like the idea of "enlightened screenshots". 
I also have a PSP version, but I have to install it.. so I will make a try to "enlight" my screenshot at my next release.... Thanks for the advice... 
Q1 Tools Update 
at . Main features are local minlights (delay 4) in Light, wildcards in wad specifications in compilers and a new wad tool for deleting duplicate textures. Please also see readmes for more details.

Any comments are welcome. 
Message During Game Start 
I would Like to add a start message (Like map title or developper name, etc..) in the Quake console during start up (or during map loading).. Who knows how to do that ??
In Worldspawn, add a key "message" and add what you want to say in the value field.

(No quotation marks of course) 
OK, this generates the required message on one line... but if I want to add more than one line messages, do I need to add key "message" as many as required lines ??? 
you use /n, which specifies 'new line'

"message" "My map/nBy: Me!"

It may be \n... haven't ever used it myself, but pretty sure it's /n 
All right, I will make the test this evening... Thanks for the info... 
is \n and if the map is SP, you shouldn't use them because then save games might not work. 
Need Registerd EntEd 
I have a program called EntEd for Quake which is supposed to allow me to edit the entities in a Quake map...

Unfourtunately, the unregesterd version will not edit .bsp files... only .map files.... and the home page for the program is long dead, and I'm sure it's no longer being developed... Does anyone have a registration key for it or know where to get the registered version?

Or, any other *small* uncomplicated program that will allow me to edit entities in a .bsp file? 
Gunter: Adquedit can extract the entities out of a bsp, and into a file that can be edited in notepad. The interface is a little clunky, but it's managable. It's pretty small too : - ) 
you can just open the bsp in wordpad and copy out the entity data -- it's in plain text near the end. Then save it as .map and recompile the bsp using -onlyents.

(or edit the bsp in wordpad and save it -- this shouldn't work, but i've tried it before and it seemed to work anyway. I don't know why :) 
Or Better Yet, 
use quark (any version).

it will allow you to open up a bsp file into the editor. you cannot actually modify any geometry, including bmodels, but you can edit all entities. 
metlslime is going hard core, man. Next he'll forego editors all together and write out the coordinates of his next level by hand ;) 
I did have to use wordpad to align textures on my first map, since Thred didn't have texture alignment. 
And I Dare 
pat myself on the back for being able to align three point bevel cuts with GTKRadiant. False pride. 
Strange Error 

I have a strange error during holes creation... I use a platform where I add some holes whith an Hollow Maker entity. I've created 6 holes and the TxQBSP tool compiles the map without any problems... When I had the 7th hole, here is the error message I found:

SubdivideFace: Didn't split the polygon near (5112 1083 -992), metal2_5

I don't understand why this error appears, furthermore there is no polygon at these coordonates !!

Is there anyone who have an idea about it ??

Do not use hollow tool! EVER! 
About Hollow Tool 
So how can I create hole(s) in wall(s) without using Hollow Maker ??? This is described like this in QuArK user guide... 
You can, like build the wall around the hole if you get what I mean. If your wall is to have a square hole, you would create your wall with 4 brushes, more complex hole(s) would require more complex construction 
You can use hollow tool but onlu on the simple brushes and with care. Try making holes manually. That's much more safer. 
For Example... 
I'm currently trying to build a platform with at least 10 holes in order to have a pentagram-like top view.. This very hard to perform a good texture alignement with at least 4 angles values (36, 54, 18, and 72 degrees !!!) I have to use hollow maker with cube and wedge to build this... So what is the good method ?

PS: I found the answer about my first question in AguirRe Quake Tool Tips.. Thanks AguirRe !!! 
the only good method is making it all manually using edge & vertex manipulation and manual texture alignment. otherwise you'll die fighting compile errors. 
jpl do yourself a favor and learn a proper editor 
OK, thanks for the advice... It's going to be very long to build my "pentagram platform" but if it's the only way to build it, there is no other choice for me....
"jpl Do Yourself A Favor And Learn A Proper Editor" 
it's not what you use it's how you use it. 
Gibbie & Phait 
Yes, sure that I make some big mistakes with my mapping tool (QuArK today) But I'm pretty young with this "job"... and like beginner, I'm less experimented than all of you... so please, don't be cruel with me... I'm just looking for advices to improve me...
Perhaps my questions are stupid (for you), but just remind when you start to build maps... Didn't you used the "getting started" file and made (lot of) trys before becoming "pros" ??? I discovered QuArK at the beginning of February... so please be tolerant...
gibbie, fek off u meanie basid! :) 
btw, join #terrafusion channel on and get hotline mapping support from all of us :) 
Good That You 
found the answer to your SubdivideFace question, try looking first in the ToolTips before posting. If you can't find the answer, just post here and maybe we can improve the contents to cover more ground.

And there's nothing wrong with QuArK, I've been using it myself for a long time. It's got its fair share of quirks and problems just like most other editors (or software in general). 
You are right, It must be a reflex to have a look at the tool tips before posting some questions.. I'm going to print it... ;-) 
Sorry, unable to connect due to our office network fire-wall that doesn't authorize the connection... See you soon on this forum...
it's not what you use it's how you use it.

Not always the case. QuArK (if I remember rightly) uses floating point gridvalues and can have trouble aligning complicated brushes to the grid, which can cause all kinds of problems, no matter how good a mapper you are. I know this was definitely the case with Qoole, but I seem to remember gibbie himself having similar problems with QuArK back with SM32. 
I think you misunderstood what I was saying - I was being supportive of *you* ;) 
It's Not What You Use It's How You Use It 
By that logic I should be able to create quake maps using only two marbles, a pack of sugar free gum, and an 8-track recording of Scorpions - Rock You Like A Hurricane. But not even MacGuyver could do that. 
MacGyvver could, but only with the help of some TV magic and lots of retakes, and he would need at least one rifle or pistol to [ab]use as a hammer or trowel or other ungunlike usage. 
Just like a good driver can win a race no matter what car he drives. 
We're talking level editors here, not other shit. Granted some editors ARE better than others but bottom line who gives a fuck what anyone uses. If they want to use something you're shoving down their throats, they'll use it either in due time or never. 
Old Quake1 Saying 
Can't they take the axe out of it? 
"MacGyvver could, but only with the help of some TV magic and lots of retakes, and he would need at least one rifle or pistol to [ab]use as a hammer or trowel or other ungunlike usage."

Speedmap theme: MacGuyver. 
I wish it was
"It's not how you use it, it's what you use",
then maybe I would be good at mapping, but alas 
It was not against your post... I understood what you wanted to say... I apologize if you were "hurt"... but gibbie post seems a little bit more "ironical"... I'm here to find mapping help, not meany remarks about my poor knowledges on mapping tool....
Anyway... I've no problem to deal with "bad boys".. ;-D 
Heheh.. no. 
as long as your support tends to suppose... 
Again One Problem 
A new problem appeared to my map.. While playing, suddenly I fall down throught the ground... I take a look at aguirRe Quake Tool tips, and I checked all brushes and texture alignements... (as recommended) Same problem remains.. I have to make a try typing "pointfile" but it appears that TxQBSP didn't generate a .pts file.. Sure I missed some option in my QuArK configuration, but I don't know really what to do... Is there a noble guy, or more, who can help me ??
Again One Problem 
A new problem appeared to my map.. While playing, suddenly I fall down throught the ground... I take a look at aguirRe Quake Tool tips, and I checked all brushes and texture alignements... (as recommended) Same problem remains.. I have to make a try typing "pointfile" but it appears that TxQBSP didn't generate a .pts file.. Sure I missed some option in my QuArK configuration, but I don't know really what to do... Is there a noble guy, or more, who can help me ??
Sorry For Double Post... 
probably there's an error brush in that area.
try rebuilding the floor there.
and sigh, quark is evile.... 
Yet Done.. 
I tried this: I added brush platform on the "base-ground", and I carefully aligned the texture with my pillars, and walls... Same effect.. Furthermore I don't have any warning or error during TxQBSP compilation... It only misses the pts file to test pointfile command in the Quake console... I also tried a full building (TxQBSP + RVis + TyrLite) instead of fast one (TxQBSP + TyrLite)... no effect.... 
check if the floor brushes have proper textures. i.e. no tex mix like floor+sky or floo+liquid on one brush. that should give an error in compiler, but still check it... 
I'll check if the texture applied is the same on all brushe's face.. It's perhaps not the case... And how to generate a pts file ??? 
it gets generated only if the map is leaked... 
Could you explain me a little bit more pleae ?? I'm not sure to understand clearly "leaked map" concept.... 
You'll only get a pts file if the maps leaks, i.e. there is somehow an opening from an entity inside to the void outside. Falling through a corrupt floor brush inside the map doesn't cause a leak.

Send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it. 
Quick Fix 
Make the bad brush a func_wall. 
probably off grid brushes creating errors. quark does that a lot. use a better editor :) 
.. I'm not able to check anything now: I'm at office :( grrrr...
So I'll take a look this evening trying each solutions you gave me... hoping at least one will works...
aguirRe, I will send you zipped map and wad if I don't find any turnaround... thanks for your contribution..
Thanks a lot everybody.. 
I Forgot To 
mention that you don't need a pts file to find the problem here; you fall through it ... The dotted line would probably only pass through this brush anyway.

Also note that in many cases, it's not the actual penetrable brush that is the culprit. Often it's a neighbour brush or in some cases even a bad brush junction that's not in the immediate neighbourhood.

It can certainly be a challenge to fix. I'd appreciate the map even if you do find a cure; there's always something new to learn from it. 
I will do my best to solve the problem myself in a first time... If I find the problem, I'll send you a mail for further explanations if you like... or a post here... anyway...If I can't solve the problem this evening, I'll send you the files.. hoping it's only a mistake coming from me and not from the tool...
I will see this in a few hours now... 
I Dont Remember.. 
if the player start is stuck in a floor brush if it falls through or is just stuck... maybe. 
Player Start... 
.. placed too near a brush make the player stucked.. and a possible HOM problem as well... The player can be blocked partially inside the brush and can't moove, he can just rotate left, right up or down... but walking is impossible... I made this mistake in my first trys... 
HOM Only For Scrags... 
I got the same problem. I found a solution, by sealing the the brush over the HOM-creating area with another one. I don't know if it works with a floor. 
About Post 1490-1491 
I solved my problem, thanks everybody who helped me and gave me the good lucky "inspiration"...
In fact, it was a minor problem not detected by TxQBSP... (I don't know why, but it seems to be normal..)..
I had two brushes (a platform and a wall) orthogonaly placed, enclosed each other by a corner of each one face... It results in a "one dot separating line" between floor and wall... (don't know if it's clear...) TxQBSP didn't see this and never found any warnings or errors... (No holes found, no off-grid brushes, no bad aligned textures, etc... TxQBSP works correctly because the map seemed to be correctly build... ) but during the game, the player fall throught the floor !!! The map leak... shit ....

So after many trys, many investigations, walking slowly to detect clearly were is the leak.... falling many times, dying a lot as well... I finally found it...

Lucky I was trying to increase a little the size of the 2 brushes, in order to overlap each other... and the miracle occurs: no more leak, it works !!!
Sure it was a beginner error, but happy I am to find it by myself...
do not use quark :> 
I Try To Do... 
... my best with what I have... But QuArK seems not to be as bad as someone think... QuArK required perhaps more care than other tools during mapping effort... Perhaps you only need to be more precise using it... Furthermore, it is a pretty good editor to start mapping with... that's my beginner opinion... 
Good To Hear 
that you fixed the problem. However, there can be more such clipping errors and they might not be as obvious as this one. E.g. walking into a corner and falling into a position where you'll have to noclip to get out.

Look in my ToolTips in the "Hull Explanation" section for more info. To make the clipping errors more visible, add the qbsp options -hull 1 -solid -noents and watch out for HOMs in the map.

The HOMs indicate areas where the compiler has problems with the player clipping hull. 
i've noticed problems with using clip brushes in a bmodel. It seems like it ought to work; is there anything you can tell us about why it doesn't? How easy would it be to add this functionality to qbsp? (i know, i could probably look at the source myself, but it's late and i'm tired and you might know off the top of your head.) 
Good idea you have !!! Thanks a lot for this advice.. I'l try it as soon as possible...
Another more question: do you think these kind of problems are coming from QuArK bug (especially during map file writting) or from TxQBSP compilation that pass throught it ?? 
In brush.c there is a specific check for texture clip in the visible hull (0), same area as the check for liquid brushes in clip hulls (1/2).

I don't know why it's there, my assumption would be that the engines don't like it (maybe you could check that).

Anyway, why is this a problem at all? 
I didn't quite understand your explanation of the cause of the problem so I can't say with the information at hand.

This is one of the reasons why I asked for the map, then I can see for myself what the problem is, a possible cure and if there are other issues that you haven't spotted yet.

I'd be glad to help, but I need the zipped map+wad to investigate further. 
OK, sorry for my poor english... I have to improve it too ;-)
I'll try to send you a zipped map+wad file as soon as possible.. (next Monday later...) but it will be the corrected map... I didn't saved the corrupt one... :(
Anyway, I hope you can give me advices about my mapping way.. that may be not as good as "pros" can do...
Your English is fine. Your syntax and word choice is intelligeable to any English native. I think aquirRe was referring to the technical nature of your explanation. Believe me, you sound like James Joyce compared to an unmentioned else person. 
Oh... it's great for me to hear this... thanks a lot... 
What HeadThump Said 
Sometimes it's very difficult to describe 3D-issues in plain <insert language here>. Combined with fluent Q1 tech speak, it probably sounds like gibberish to the man on the street ... 
Bable Fish... 
...pourqoi est le peuple d'un pays tr�s grandes
si volunt� responder les questions dans un autre langue, quand ils comprende le bon mot...

one day you'll return, Pink Panther 
based on your description, it's obvious that the checks are for when to ignore a brush -- liquids aren't used for collision (hulls 1/2), and clip isn't ever visible (hull0.) But, does that make any distinction between a bsp model and the world?

The specific problem case i have is a fake ladder (one of those really steep clip staircases on top of a visible ladder) which is a func_door so that it can slide up out of the floor. 
That poke was for the Beavis and Butthead poem many moons ago. Yes, I am petty that way. 
Clip Brushes 
Well, if all brushes in a bmodel are invalid (for that hull), Brush_LoadEntity will return NULL and that will generate the Entity with no valid brushes ... error message.

Since the world usually has more brushes than a func_door (sic!), it's more likely that the world will actually have at least one non-clip brush so hull 0 is OK.

I haven't tried any of this, but I guess that if you only have clip brushes in the world entity, you'd get that error message too in hull 0. Correspondingly also in hulls 1/2 if you only have liquid brushes.

Maybe an upcoming speedmap theme? Or not. 
Blocking out the clip check only results in a visible clip brush (that also works). However, using the standard qbsp and a func_door with one normal brush and one clip brush is a bit strange.

No complaints from qbsp, there is no visible clip brush in-game but it doesn't seem to be there either (hull 1). The normal func_door brush is there as always.

When moving close to where the clip brush should be, the engine (FQ) behaves a bit jerky, I don't know how to describe it. 
Another Quick Fix... 
make one func_door for the visible ladder and another one for the invisible stairs... and for the second one use this thing instead of a clip brush: 
Yeah, i thought of that (actually, RPG thought of it.) It works, but it seems like a clip brush OUGHT to work, and if we can figure out the fix, i'd like to have aguire add it to qbsp. 
i'm looking through the quake source to see if this could somehow be caused by engine code. In the past I've noticed that some physics routines actually use hull 0 for specific things, so maybe this is another case of that happening. 
As I mentioned above, you can use any standard qbsp with bmodel clip brushes as long as there's at least one non-clip brush in it (which doesn't even have to be visible).

So I don't think a change in the compilers is necessary (or at this point, even desired). But it would be interesting to know what's causing the engine behaviour above. I tried Tyr-Quake also and it seemed to behave similarly. 
maybe i didn't explain it clearly -- I already DO have clip and non-clip brushes in one func_door, and it doesn't work. Anyway, i'm still looking. 
I have successfully had clip and non-clip brushes in a bmodel before.. without a problem. 
It Sounds Stupid 
...but maybe it has something to do with whetherthe non-clip brushes are touching the clip brushes? 
In My Test 
the brushes were not touching in hull 0 but they were near one another, so it's possible that they melted together in the clip hulls. 
Map File Checking 

Is there a tool that can help to check map file before any compilation ? This in order to avoid crashes, HOM, leaks, etc... It will be helpfull to detect any warnings/errors/problems (like off-grid polygons, unaligned textures, etc..) before starting to build bsp files..

Re: Map File Checking 
Try MapSpy:

It's designed for Quake 2, but it checks for all sorts of other brush problems. Just ignore the Quake 2-specific stuff.


After re-reading your post, it sounds like MapSpy isn't really what you want (it doesn't check for unaligned textures or HOMs, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't check for off-grid polygons or leaks). But it's a small download, so you might still want to try it out. 
Since You're Using 
QuArK, there are a few things in the Search menu that can help in finding potentially bad brushes, e.g. Find Microbrushes. Just be careful when using some auto-fix option, make sure you have a backup before.

For texture alignment there are several helpful things in the right-click menu of a selected face, e.g. Wrap texture from tagged.

Otherwise I think it's the compilers that offer the most useful checks since they are actually the tools that translate your map into bsp.

Compile now and then to see that the map is OK and always save various generations of your map so you can recover if anything bad should happen. 
RPG & AguirRe 
Thanks for the link and these infos about QuArK... I wil try to test the stuff tonight...
There is a prog called "mapsyntx" what can cheque your brushes after compiling... 
That goalie you have in front of your inbox is really good. He's blocked all my shots.

E2M1A is still dormant as I slowly push on with E2M1B. So far, it compiles fine. 
I Have Also Sent 
you several emails previously, we seem to have some serious communication problems between us.

Possibly a black-list or some over-ambitious spam filter. I don't understand it, others seem to get through fine.

Try sending to my other box, address same before the '@' and followed by ebox *dott* tninet *dott* se. 
Uhm. I Haven't Really Paid Attention But... 
... I've had clip brushes in func_doors and func_plats in my old maps if that had any relevance to what was being discussed. 
yeah, they sometimes work. The problem seems to be a stairway made of clip. 
I Haven't Paid Attention Either, But... 
My Coagula map had a ladder that lowered down, which was a door made of regular brushes and clips and acted as a stairway. So it's a ladder and a door and a stairway... 
I Don't Think I Ever Used More Than One Clip Brush 
per brushentity, I used did used them under lifts so you wouldn't go in and get your heads squashed when they came back down. 
"used Did Used" 
Entity with no valid brushes or textures
the line is 67386, but when i open the .map up in, the stupid thing only loads 65000 lines. :\

suggestions on a text program that displays line # and can load massive files (+3mb) 
the older version that is still available is very good; the newer one has some seriously wacked concepts built in it on matters of interface and usuage. 
Yeah, Well 
considering i just tried with edit and it has a 65000 line limit, i don't think that i'll have any luck with an even older version of edit... 
Try with WordPad ... 
Yuck, That Sucks 
I've had it read out some very large compile files befre, and I assumed it had a much higher limit -- sorry for the bad advice. How many brushes do you have inthat map btw? 
try TextPad , it's excellent. 
I've been using Metapad for years; 'tis good. No filesize limit, find/find+replace, line # etc. etc. 
they both work great and the map works now. :P

Headthump: it's not so much the brushes as it is the entities... there are a lot of lights in there ;) 
CALL1 465(precache_model)precache_model()
items.qc : item_health
PF_precache_model: overflow
Host_Error: Program error

on startup of map.

this sounds familiar but i don't remember what it means. can someone tell me? 
Some Excerpts From 
old QMap thread 2001, GlassMan posts:

too many precached models. Only 255 allowed including brush models. Remember each individual func_movewall, func_illusionary etc etc will count towards that maximum. Use mcache to list them. The items marked *1,*2, etc are your brush models.

it will include all the weapon models, health etc etc..use mcache & you will have them listed. 195 is a _lot_ of brush models.

Also Includes trigger_* brushes

The limit is not 256 'bmodels'. Its 256 models of all kinds. That includes sprites, each type of monster, monsters heads, the bsp of the map itself, weapon models, the rocket model, the nail, gibs the lot. I doubt you would have enough space left for all these models if you have 200 'bmodels'.

I would guess you've gone over the top with the triggers for the teleporting in. Theres only so much of that you can do. With your coding skills maybe you could write some kind of monster spawn function to use instead of the triggers. I think custents has something like that.
man, i really hate that! :P looks like i'll have to trim some door and triggers out... thanks for pulling that up for me. you rock! 
Quake C 
Does anyone know of a Windows based Quake C Editor. I have downloaded various Dos based programs but I really want a nice easy interface - you know the kind of thing, drop the file in the window and hey presto, it all opens up in the editor. Click a button and whizo, it compiles etc,etc.

The nearest I have got is FrikQCC, which seems to have a Windows GUI but no help file to tell me what to do next. (old dog, new tricks) 
frikqcc windows gui thing should allow you to associate progs.src files to it so that double clicking on one (in your quakec working source directory for example) should automatically launch frikqcc and compile it (iirc, may have changed).

if you mean an IDE for quake-c editing, i dont know. i know there are some hacks and tricks you can do to get MS visual studio to associate with .qc files and run qcc, however ive never used them. i think they were on friks site or something. i think most people just use some notepad-esque program (editpad, ultraedit, whatever) 
Masm as an editor is very maleable; I haven't used it for QC but you should be able to run .qc files from it by changing the .bat files in the editor settings to ones associated with frikqcc. Might be worth a shot. 
Of Course, 
I mean Qeditor which comes with the package I'm an old fan of Abrash that's why I still have it on my system. In a few weeks I'm going to be switching gears from finishing up mapping for a modders project to programming a progs.dat for a project of my own, so I would definitely be interested in what you might find useful. 
Quake -C Editor 
From Blues News (Googled)

"QCAPE is an integrated developmental environment (IDE) for managing QuakeC projects with pak editor, project manager, compiler, decompiler, and QuakeC manual all in one."

Don't know if its still on the net though. I still have a copy if you want me to e-mail it to you. Size 2.42mb.

Note: Did not like to run in XP home so if thats what you use then I dunno'. 
Fat Controllers... 
Thanks for getting the board online again.

I'm trying to straighten out a few quirks in the Light tool regarding switchable lights. Do you know what's required from the engine to make them work correctly?

Specifically regarding the sharing of the same "style" key both in source and target entities. When there are multiple targets, the current logic is entity order dependant.

I even managed to create severe HOM effects in the engine just by manually inserting a "style" key in a bad place. Same behaviour in FQ and TyrQuake, so I assume this is an old problem. 
I know a fair amount about how it works in the engine. The logic you describe is all handled in QuakeC. Without the source in front of me, i believe the reason only the first entity gets the target is that the lightstyle message that is sent to the client will affect all lightmaps of a certain style. So this avoids redundant messages.

I can't imagine offhand why you would get those HOM effects, though. Please email me the bsp that demonstrates the problem, and i'll see if i can track it down specifically. 
Regarding Qcape - I have the same problem with XP, which is a shame because Qcape sounds good. I wonder if anybody has managed to find a workaround?

However, aguirRe pointed me towards TextPad4 and it has quite a lot going for it e.g. syntax highlighting and compiling directly from the editor.

If anyone's interested I can pass on aguirRe's very helpful e-mail. 
Provided aguirRe doesn't mind? 
Clip Brush In Bmodel Problem: Update 
Okay, well i did a lot of testing and code diving, and i found out exactly what the bug is, and what is causing it.

The bug occurs any time a clip brush in a bmodel extends past the bounding box of the visible portion of the model in any of the six axial directions (north, south, east, west, up, down.) If this happens, you can pass through the part(s) of the clip brush(es) that extend. The reason for this is that physics code uses the bounding box of the visible model (hull0) for culling -- if the player is outside of that box, quake doesn't bother doing collision calculations (which would use hull1) for it.

I haven't quite decided the best way to fix this in code. I also am not sure if the fix should be engine-side or compiler-side. However, if you are a mapper and encounter this problem, the solution/workaround you should use is to add extra visible brushes to the bmodel to extend the bbox as far in each axial direction as any of the clip brushes extend. 
I'll email you a small map+wad so you can see the HOM effect. This problem isn't very likely to happen, but it's quite an interesting effect. If anyone had showed me that symptom before and asked me why it happened, I doubt I would've found the cause.

Mike: Of course I don't mind, just pass it along to who ever that might find it useful. 
My map likes to crash. At first I thought it happened because of edicts, but it crashes even in deathmatch mode (with no monsters). I'm completely disappointed.

But it still runs fine in Tyr-quake (software), but crashes in glquake, winquake and telejano. At least I tested it only in these four engines.

aguirRe, can I bother you once again and e-mail it to you?

btw my comp has been down for two weeks, I wanted to ask it before, but couldn't 
Sure, just send me the zipped map+wad (no bsps please, I'll rebuild it myself). 
that's the same map, you already have that wad. 
Aguire, Light... 
i'm not sure if this is usefull or not, but:

in nesp06, i made a little fading light thing... for that i would manually assign one of the 'style' that are highup which is usually reserved for the light util... then, to change the style, all you do is change the intensity via (in qc):
lightstyle(#of style, " *letter of intensity* ");

the way normal light works is the compiler assigns a "style" to the light then the qc code does:
lightstyle(, " *letter of intensity, so m for on and a for off and swaps between the two when triggered* ");

um... i don't know if that's helpful at all, or even what you were looking for... i'm tired. :P 
Er, Also... 
the style is global, no matter what lights are targeted, if the style is being changed, all lights with that style are being changed... 
OK, I've Got The Map 
I'll have to check more tomorrow, but first impression is that I think it's entity related. After a normal build (no vis/light) it crashes FQ 0.75 immediately, TyrQuake can handle it but with entity flicker.

After a fast vis it still crashes FQ after a few rooms as you said.

After adding compiler options -solid -noents, FQ seems to be fine even without any vis. Therefore it appears entity related (noents removes all entities except world and players). I'm not so good at tracking down entity problems though.

Metl: FQ crashes at 0x41aac5 (access violation) every time, can you see in the FQ map file where that is? 
what are you trying to accomplish, aguire? i seem to have forgotten... 
necros: he's busy unraveling the secrets of the cosmos. let the man work. 
Therefore it appears entity related

Hmmm that's bad, it seems like it's not simply edicts overload. 
I would like to place a invicibily artefact above a well (to force the player to catch it and then falling down into the hole...) but, while testing the map, the artefact seems to "slip" down to the weel ground (gravity effect ???)
Is it possible to preserve the artefact position without this fucking "gravity" effect ??
Yes JP... 
...there's probably a tute somewhere, but basically:
1. Fill the well with a func_wall
2. Give the func_wall a name
3. Place a trigger_once at the player_start
4. Have the trigger "kill target" the func_wall by name
5. Place the PP on the func_wall

The effect is that the player arrives in the level, causes the trigger to function thus removing the func_wall but leaving the PP floating.

PS: that must be one very big well if the player can't jump over it? 
No, the well is not really big, the basic idea is that if player doesn't take the invicibility artefact, he die into lava at the ouput of the well... sorry for him...
Perhaps placing the artefact lower into the well will be more efficient to avoid "little sly" to take the item without falling down into the well... hmmm I think it will be better like this...
Thanks for the advice...
sorry for him...

hehe, why am I not convinced =) 
... because you didn't try swimming into lava... it cannot be done without pain... don't you know ?? 
Of Course JP... 
...just a language thing. 
I didn't understood the language subtelty... English is not my native language... sorry... 
Is this the same map you've been working on for a while now? I'm looking forward to see what you come up with. Good Luck 
Yes, that's the same map (my first one...)... I decided to restart from scratch after very interesting discussions and advices with aguirRe. He point up some major problems/errors that causes undetected leaks in the map (like off-frid brushes, unaligned textures, etc.. not reported during compilation...some beginner big scrappy and awfull errors in fact...) These ones were also very difficult to detect if not corrected early... Furthermore, he gave me some good basic advices about how to build a "good" map (with his point of view...), thanks aguirRe ;-)).
As I told him, an external point of view about my work was very usefull, and very encouraging, even he point up my mistakes... What does not kill you, make you stronger... no ???
So I hope now to map in a better way now...
To give you a quick status, I rebuilt 80% of the expected map... I'll post a message when it will be finally released...
I'm trying to understand how the switchable lights are supposed to work as they're a collaboration of Light and the engine.

I've noticed several inconsistencies in the logic that sometimes generates confusing results and I'd like to fix this.

While checking many existing bsps, it seems like mappers have had problems with this functionality before.

You also noticed that a qbsp -onlyents run has always disabled the switchable lights and that is also something I'd like to fix.

Btw, did my attempt to fix the problem work for you? 
I'm Glad... 
that I already gave up on that grey/blue perssp3 map since it involved the exact same scenario JPL is describing. :) Good luck man. 
Sorry to copy the idea, but I didn't know it was previously used... grrrrr.... 
I've now compared the original ne_sp06 bsp with one that I've run through my new light -onlyents feature.

The QC coded new lightfade entities still seem to work as the original but now the source entities actually get their correct style set which they didn't originally.

There are also two switchable lights (targetnames monspawn7 and necros1, GL and silver key) that now works, whereas they don't in the original.

I don't know if you manually disabled them (by invalidating their style) or if they got accidentally disabled by doing a qbsp onlyents run but maybe you can clear that up? 
on the light util, i haven't had the chance to try it yet as i haven't been mapping these past couple of days, when my map has finished vising (8 more hours, whee!) i'll try it out.

The QC coded new lightfade entities still seem to work as the original but now the source entities actually get their correct style set which they didn't originally.

huh? the thing with those entities is that the style key was set manually by me in the editor instead of letting the light util do it.

There are also two switchable lights (targetnames monspawn7 and necros1, GL and silver key) that now works, whereas they don't in the original.

honestly, i have no idea... it's probably a bug... i never made much use of the lightfade ent even though i thought it was really cool at the time... :P the only ones i remember working (and remember putting in) are in the long hall way at the start where the brown shamblers come out, and in the small bloody room where you get ambushed by 3~4 or so fiends.

ok, and here's my guess on how the switchable lights work...

you put the ent in with the flag set with only the targetname and a trigger to activate it...
light comes along, calculates the area of effect of the ent, assigns it a style key and goes away.
in the game, depending on what flags were set, the qc then decides what intensity letter (from a (darkest) to m(brightest) (past m is overbright i think)) to assign to the switchable light.
when the light gets trig'd, qc changes the style of the light to a different letter, the lightstyle command tells the engine to upload new data to that particular style.

yeah. i still don't know if i'm just repeating stuff you know already or not,... i thought it was worth saying.

The Lightfade 
entities still work because you manually put their style keys into the entity section and they don't conflict with other switchable lights.

Since you assigned them styles 63-64, the risk of interference is minimal. Light will not remove any style keys but may reassign them as required.

You only have 2 "normal" switchable lights, those I mentioned above. The spot over the GL should turn off when grabbing the weapon but it doesn't in the original.

The one triggered by the silver key is more strange. A light is supposed to appear in one corner of the big dragon arena when you grab the key down the river (far away). I can't see how anyone would notice that.

And the lightfade ent I checked was actually the one just before the "brownies" appeared and it works in both versions.

Your description of switchables seems basically correct, metlslime described something similar. I can't comment on the details though.

Thanks for the ne_sp06 tip. This new Light feature is a bit hard to test. 
hm, last times when i have enormously sized leak (forgot to insert a brush) qbsp reports the leak, creates pts but when i start the map everything is gray. but i still heard the sounds etc. only compiling with -hull 1 option helped me to see the map and find the huge sized leak. is that normal? looks like huge leak confuses qbsp :) 
did that happen in fitzquake? i had a similar problem with a map of mine where all i could see was the void (either HOM or grey if gl_clear 1), but i could still move, shoot and hear things like monsters waking up and doors moving... 
yeah, it's fitzquake and yes, it was gl_clear 1 
Yes, That Happens 
sometimes and I'm not sure exactly why. I have a theory that it's related to the hull filling (FillOutside).

Did you perhaps use the -noents option when it happened? I had to insert some dubious code to prevent some other bad behaviour when using that option with a leaky map.

You know the No entitities in empty space ... message, I had to shortcircuit that test when using the noents option.

My guess is that if hull 0 leaks and qbsp can't make out what's inside or outside, then the filling will run amok and remove the whole hull. The other hulls can very well be OK so you can walk around but you can't see the actual hull 0 (entities should be fine, though).

If you're using the noents option, try removing it next time it happens. If not, I don't really know ... 
i don't think it's a compiler problem.

that problem only happens in fitzquake. when i had that problem, i went into tyr-glquake and i could see the map fine.

also, when i sealed it off, the problem went away in fitzquake.
metlslime and i were trying to track down the problem but it never got very far. i found just keeping the map sealed kept me out of trouble. the map didn't even have to be vised. (also, at this point, unvised, the max wpoly is around 13000 and fq still handles that) 
i didn't use -noets option.
but i've got one idea, that leak was under the water completely, maybe this is the reason of the weird qbsp behaviour? 
It wasn't "previously used", that's why it is amusing. ;) I can't think of any maps where you need to swim through lava except e1m8 and rrsp1. 
I don't think that liquid would change anything but you could try adding the option -solid which will remove all liquid brushes and see if anything changes.

What about TyrQuake, same or different behaviour? TyrQuake is so far the most robust engine I've seen so it's very good with leaky, troublesome maps. But FQ is IMO the obvious choice for actual playing. 
Update on the crashing map: I loaded the map file into QuArK, fixed a broken brush that probably occured in the conversion process and then rebuilt.

Suddenly, the map doesn't crash anymore in FQ, not even without fastvis! There are packet overflow aplenty and entities disappear now and then but it doesn't crash.

Hmm, this is weird ... 
interesting, but I've just sent you e-mail with my thoughts.

So is it a brush problem, not entity? 
it's likely to be a visibility issue; too much is visible from some angles and that probably includes both architecture and entities. The architecture (or rather, layout) is too interconnected, which looks nice but comes with a price tag.

If you perform a fastvis, it will printout the position in the map where the highest # leafs are visible. This is a place that you should check out with TyrQuake and the r_draworder cvar enabled.

I'll read your email and get back to you. 
send me the bsp, i'll check it out. 
The idea was to jump to catch the pentagrm, climb into a well, and fall into a lava "bath" to progress into the map... so without invicibility pentagram, you die immediatly..
Anyway, yesterday night I tested the method given by distrans (thanks distrans), and I had some problems to perform what he recommended me... (sorry distrans) but I solved the problem with another turnaround.. Perhaps I used some bad method (I'm a beginner in Quake mapping)...
Perhaps there exists a method to preserve item position with an additional field, in order to avoid "gravity" effects...

This is the tute I mentioned for floating entities. 
Try This URL Instead 
It's Official... 
...I lurv the VoreLord. 
Distrans & VoreLord 
Thanks for the URL.. but what about this file ?? 
//Me Blushes 
I think all the Quake Lab Links, at least the cdrom ones would be dead.
Just change the URL by adding

to the front of the file path, eg

would become

same thing as what you do with alot of the other broken PQ links 
Distans & VoreLord 
How stupid I am... I didn't read the text file ... thanks a lot, I will try this this evening.... 
Well I think it gives you a tutorial type thing on how to acheive floating things,It also contains a .bsp and .map file so you can see it in action 
well, i've fixed the prob, not sure if u still need the file. gonna release it soon anyway hopefully... 
VoreLord, Distrans 
Yes, I've unziped the file... and read the text.. I wil test it this evening... thanks a lot... 
Here Is Another Location 
where you can get that stuff that is at QuakeLab, amongst other things. 
Thanks !!! Great link !!!! 
this is a better way to get that stuff, or anything you want from that site. Same site but the URL is a bit different, the previous one is a very old link i've had for years.
This one would be better.
Just scroll down to the games/idgames stuff, and away you go 
OK, thank you again... I'll take a look later in the afternoon...
SZ_getspace: 8030 Is > Full Buffer Size 
on startup of map. 
Back Again With Basic Question 
First thanks to distrans and VoreLord for their help related to my previous problem. The float map was a good example of what I wanted to do...
Anyway, I have another questions. I'm pretty sure it is a mapping basic knowledge, but while I'm a beginner, it's another method I don't know anything...

How to open a door with multiple button ??? I've found in the QuArK tutorial how to do this for one button to one door, but nothing with many buttons. What is the method ??

I assume you want the player to press several buttons before a door will open.

Use a trigger_counter entity, which targets the door, and is targetted by the buttons. I believe it's the count or cnt attribute which determines how many triggerings are needed to fire the counter. 
Wot Fatty Said 

Acts as an intermediary for an action that takes multiple inputs. If nomessage is not set, it will print "1 more.. " etc when triggered and "sequence complete" when finished. After the counter has been triggered "count" times, it will fire all of it's targets and remove itself.

It's a once-only trigger (i.e. Wait is always -1).

disables count display

number of triggers needed to fire own target, default is 2
"target" and "targetname" like always, required 
Fat Controller And Vondur 
OK, thank you all, if I understand correctly, you mean that each func_button are used once only and they target the item_counter, and when the item_counter reaches its maximum value then the door can open....
OK, ir seems to be very easy to use... Just another question, is it possible to give a button or a trigger a multiple targetname. I mean, during this multiple switch use, I would ike to make appear some monster each time a button is switched. How can I do this ??? Furthermore, I know how to enable a teleport to make some monsters appear from another hall....
Thanks a lot 
Monster Spawns 
If you want monsters to spawn in indefinitely every time a button is pressed, you'll have to use the Hipnotic progs.dat or equivalent QC. There is no other way.

If the button will only be pressed a few times I think the only thing you could do is set up a bunch of counters with the same name.

button > teleport_a
button > counter_b (2) > teleport_b
button > counter_c (3) > teleport_c

If you only want the monster triggered the first time the button is pressed you could use a trigger_relay with a 'targetname' as for your trigger_counter and a 'target' matching your the monster trigger_teleport 
... I want to perform a multiple button switch before opening an output door (this was explained in post 1621 and 1622 from Fat Controller and Vondur, thanks to them), but additionally I would like to make monsters appears each time a button is switched.... So the player will follow this kind of"scenario": switch a button, fight with incoming monsters, switch the next buton, fight with the new incoming monsters, etc.. and this to the last button ... I don't really understand what is the good nethod to perform both of these feature (multiple switches, and monsters apparition on each switch...) it's still a little confuse for me... 
... I also would like to perform these two features without taking into account the buttons switch order.... rather difficult, or not ??? 
JPL's Spawns... 
Now I understand you a little better. You should set the buttons up individually to trigger the monster teleport traps. Then create individual trigger_relays, with the same names as the teleport traps, which will target the counter.

For example, if you wanted to have a door opened by three buttons, and wanted each button to spawn a group of monsters, you'd need the following entitites:

func_button (target="A")
func_button (target="B")
func_button (target="C")

teleport traps:
trigger_teleport (name="A")
trigger_teleport (name="B")
trigger_teleport (name="C")

relays to make the buttons also target the counter:
trigger_relay (name="A" target="counter")
trigger_relay (name="B" target="counter")
trigger_relay (name="C" target="counter")

the counter itself:
trigger_counter (name="counter" target="door" count="3")

If you use the above method, each switch will have its own indiviual group of enemies, and that particular group will spawn when the button is pressed, regardless of the order in which it is pressed. If that's a problem and you'd rather have each button spawn an INCREASINGLY STRONG group of monsters, regardless of order, you could do it with a bunch of separate counters. Your entity set would look something like this:

buttons (with the same target):
func_button (target="A")
func_button (target="A")
func_button (target="A")

counters (to trigger different traps depending on how many buttons have been pressed):
trigger_counter (name="A" target="trap2" count="2")
trigger_counter (name="A" target="trap3" count="3")

teleport traps:
trigger_teleport (name="A")
trigger_teleport (name="trap2")
trigger_teleport (name="trap3")

the door, with the same targetname as the last trap:
func_door (name="trap3") 
Great !! It was exactly what I was looking for !!! I was thinking about the second method, but really didn't know how to implement it... Thank you very much Fern....
so does *anyone* know what SZ_getspace: 8030 Is > Full Buffer Size means on starting a map? 
Post #3 on this thread is kinda funny now. 
By looking in the engine source common.c I can see that the error message occurs just after the ... overflow without allowoverflow set ... error.

It's in a generic memory allocation function so it's difficult to say what's causing it without a stack trace.

An educated guess could be that it's entity related (what isn't?). 
well, this error happens in all the engines that i have tried, Fitzquake, regular GLQuake and tyr-glquake (which has a super high entity limit)

the thing is, i was just below the limit for bmodels when i compiled the map. so then i added in more ammo and health, and that's when the problem came up... the thing is, i thought ammo and health didn't affect bmodel limit because it's only the first one that counts... 
Quake 3 Help 
I don't know much about shaders and I don't really care to learn, I'd just like to get things done. I want to have a beam projecting from a light, but in an orange colour. I can take red_beam.jpg from sfx and modify it, but the sfx shader refers to red_beam.tga which as far as I can tell doesn't exist in pak[0-8]. So does the texture exist for me to screw with or what do I do? 
the shaders refer to a .tga in all instances, whether the corresponding file is in .tga or .jpg format. The engine will search for the file in .tga format; if it doesn't find it, it will search for it as .jpg instead.
So you're all clear to mess with the red_beam.tga shader, though it's obviously wise to c'n'p your own version of the shader ( and image if you itend to modify it ) before messing. I probably didn't need to mention that bit did I?

It never hurts to mention that bit. 
Here's an obscure question - is it possible to alter the image scale on quake sprites? They obviously default to 1:1 in line with normal quake texture scaling but I'd like something different. 
Tearing My Hair Out... 
ok, chaps - i'm about to unleash my long-awaited debut map - Bastion of the Underworld - but as if to spite me, tyrlite has decided it suddenly doesn't like me anymore and refuses to light my map. here's the important bits of the log:


** Executing...
** Command: C:\Editing\Quake\tools\BENGT_~1\TREEQB~1.EXE
** Parameters: "c:\editing\quake\maps\"

TreeQBSP v1.95 -- Modified by Bengt Jardrup

Input file: c:\editing\quake\maps\
Output file: c:\editing\quake\maps\bastion3.bsp
---- LoadMapFile ----
Title: "Bastion of the Underworld"
34644 faces
5748 brushes
737 entities
74 unique texnames
606 texinfo
4 texture frames added

Building hulls sequentially...
Processing hull 0...
---- Brush_LoadEntity ----
5290 brushes
---- CSGFaces ----
31809 brushfaces
24830 csgfaces
22375 mergedfaces
---- SolidBSP ----
28762 split nodes
12889 solid leafs
15165 empty leafs
709 water leafs
53805 leaffaces
48311 nodefaces
---- FillOutside ----
4565 outleafs
---- MergeAll ----
20143 mergefaces
---- SolidBSP ----
12247 split nodes
6138 solid leafs
5841 empty leafs
269 water leafs
31831 leaffaces
25388 nodefaces
---- Portalize ----
6110 vis leafs
19624 vis portals
---- Tjunc ----
26792 world edges
91489 edge points
19883 edges added by tjunctions
0 faces added by tjunctions
---- MakeFaceEdges ----
---- GrowRegions ----
Processing hull 1...
Processing hull 2...
*** WARNING 08: Point (2784 288 -448) off plane by 5.5
*** WARNING 08: Point (2880 352 -448) off plane by 5.76
*** WARNING 08: Point (2880 352 -232) off plane by 5.76
*** WARNING 08: Point (2784 288 -232) off plane by 5.5
---- WriteBSPFile ----
9286 planes 185720
35774 vertexes 429288
14125 nodes 339000
606 texinfo 24240
27847 faces 556940
29655 clipnodes 237240
7559 leafs 211652
34463 marksurfaces 68926
129983 surfedges 519932
65861 edges 263444
78 textures 971076
lightdata 0
visdata 0
entdata 72388

10 warnings

Elapsed time : 5:02

Peak memory used : 33.4 MB

** Executing...
** Command: C:\Editing\Quake\tools\BENGT_~1\RVis224.exe
** Parameters: -fast "c:\editing\quake\maps\bastion3.bsp"

---- Vis 2.24 ---- Modified by Bengt Jardrup

File: c:\editing\quake\maps\bastion3.bsp
6110 portalleafs
19624 numportals
State file out of date, will be overwritten
fastvis = true

average leafs visible: 1387
max leafs visible: 4358 near (800 2176 1056)
visdatasize: 1556 kb compressed from 4558 kb

Elapsed time : 2:12

** Executing...
** Command: C:\Editing\Quake\tools\tyrlite\BEN_TY~1.EXE
** Parameters: -lit -nocount "c:\editing\quake\maps\bastion3.bsp"

----- TyrLite v0.94 -----
colored output format: lit
BSP is version 29
737 entities read, 406 are lights.

Lighting Completed.

lightdatasize: 830341
0 switchable light styles
Writing BSP version 29
************ ERROR ************
File read failure


does tyrlite have a problem with large maps? - it's at nearly 6000 brushes at the moment. bear in mind this has only just started happening, and the only notable thing i have done since it worked fine is add a few brushes here and there - nothing unusual. also, the bsp will become corrupt or something if tyrlite tries to light it, but if i do just a bsp+vis, without lite, the map loads fine in quake, (although obviously fullbright). tyrlite copes fine when i compile just sections of the map, which leads me to believe it's an issue with the size of the full map.

any help is massively appreciated.

Glassman, Re: Sprites 
it is sadly not possible to alter the sprite image scale in the standard engines, but most custom engines support the ".scale" field on sprites, which does exactly what you require. 
TyrLite 0.94 cannot handle the large fastvis data size (1.5 MB)that my RVis produces. Try updating to the latest 0.95 from , I believe its vis/light capacity is raised.

Also, the fullvis data size will most likely shrink, but I can't see any reason not to update to 0.95 anyway.

Hmm, after checking the 0.95 source I see that its vis capacity is still only 1.5 MB so it probably won't help.

Maybe you'll have to use my Light tool during testing (fastvis) and TyrLite for the final (fullvis). My Light has not practical limit for vis data.

The fullvis will probably take a while ... 
A Simpler Solution 
Just run TyrLite before vis, then it won't see the large fastvis data. 
thanks aguirre, that has solved the problem. i am running light before vis now. the reason i am still using tyrlite 0.94 is because i modified the source code slightly to get better results from "delay 2" lights - i simply altered the attenuation formula so that it doesn't blow up to fullbright at the source. (in my version the light intensity at the source is now equal to the "light" value). i cannot open the tyrlite 0.95 source in VC++, so i am stuck with 0.94 at the moment. for those interested, i altered the "delay 2" attenuation formula by changing the following line in the scaledLight function:

(original tyrlite):
light->light / ((tmp * tmp) / 16384);

(kinn version):
light->light / (((tmp + 128) * (tmp + 128)) / 16384); 
Another Quick Question 
I've been plagued by a "too many lightstyles on a face" warning, although the area in question contains only 3 switchable lights, and no other lightstyles are present. what exactly is the lightstyles limit? i thought it was 4? 
there's another, slightly more hacky way to get a higher resolution on sprites. Make a normal sprite at 1:1 scale that is the size you want the final sprite, in regular quake format. Then make .tga external replacements for each frame of the sprite, at the higher resolution. All implimentations of .tga I've seen scale them down to the size of the original, so if the .tga is higher resolution you get a higher res, more detailed sprite. It does require custom engines again, but I think the support for this extention is slightly wider than that of .scale, although I may be wrong on this. 
The lightstyle limit is 4 but the code in the light utils has always been a bit overcautious since it checks first if the lightstyles are too many, then if this style actually hits the face.

In TyrLite, there are some changes that should reduce this behaviour but it's still not quite right. I've made some additional changes in my Light tool that hopefully should fix the problem.

Also, note that switchable lights also have styles. 
It's Late 
Disregard last sentence. You could try running my Light to see if the same # warnings are printed. 
Bastion Of The Underworld 
I faintly remember that map from The Pipeline.. looking forward to it :-) 
Bastion Of The Underworld: Sneak Preview 
Light Utils 
aguirre, i'd like to use your light proggy - would you consider adding my "-kinn" attenuation formula as an option? i'm a bit reluctant to move on from my "hacked" version of tyr 0.94, simply because no other program does the same type of attenuation. 
...Q1 enemy, Q2 weapons and Q3 scale?

Wow Kinn, 
I've completed the beta of my first full scale Quake1 map today, and, and, you make me want to go back to the drawingboard (or get out the rest of that bottle of Southern Comfort and simmer in my own chaote) That brushwork is really good. 
is that an ogre on the ledge there???
*is interested* 
Holy mother of godfuck I want that map 
ok, i've reposted in the screenshots thread, along with two more pictures :).

necros: yup, ogres et al are present and accounted for, joining a comprehensive bestiary of new and old monsters.

lol @ headthump - don't be so hard on yourself :) 
I've actually also thought of the intense local light effect of the inverse attenuation modes delay 1/2. In my Light there is already some programmatic flexibility for the attenuation formulae, mostly due to my emulation modes (IKLite etc).

I don't think your variant can be achieved with existing logic, so some modification must be done. I'm just wondering how I can add this without just adding a -kinn option.

E.g. have you also modified the delay 1 (1/x) lights? They will also get very intense close to the light. Maybe it should be added in the form of new delay modes, e.g. delay 5 would be a modified delay 2 variant? I can see that you might object to this solution although it appears rather logical, after all this is a new attenuation formula.

If I add it in the form of an option, what name would you suggest and should it also affect delay 1 lights similarly? 
Thx Preach & kinn
Do you know the naming convention for texture replacements? I've tried the actual texture name & the format used by DarkPlaces for model texture replacements but neither work. I'm using DP (& fitzquake altho I don't expect it to implement this). 
More Light Attenuation 
Another delay 2 attenuation variant is to cap the formula at the light intensity value, i.e. use the standard 1/(x*x) but no more than 1. This will conform more to the existing delay 2 light distribution, but will weaken the halo around the light.

The advantage is that light intensities don't need to be scaled so much just to get rid of the intense halo. The obvious disadvantage is that the lights in kinn's map are already adapted to the higher attenuation.

I just checked how this capped variant looks and it's not bad. Kinn, have you considered this? Does anyone else have an opinion of this issue? 
Sprite Texture Naming 
For darkplaces, to replace the frames of s_explod.spr you'd need to call the textures s_explode_0.tga, s_explode_1.tga and so on. The numbers correspond to the frame in the sprite you wish to replace, so if it's a simple, single framed sprite, you'd only need to stick a _0 after the name. 
That's the first thing I tried & it didn't work. I put them in the progs directory..perhaps I should try textures. 
I haven't used the sprite options in Dark Places, but my texture replacement file structure looks like this Quake ---> HeadThump ----> Textures. If you are using Quake 3 BSP format, of course you will need to add the name of the texture file you used in editor below the texture file, like this Quake ---> HeadThump ----> Textures ---> EvilLair8. Hope that helps. 
Lights, Sprites 
thanks, aguirre. firstly, you mentioned a "capped" option - i probably wouldn't use this option much, as it would still leave a halo of constant brightness around the light, which could look unnatural.

the problem with using my atten. method for a new delay value, eg. delay 5, is that I would have to go back and change the delay field for all existing lights in my map - possible but not entirely desirable, unless there's a search/replace function in Hammer, I dunno.

i don't really mind too much how you want to support this - either "delay 5", or "-kinn", it's all good :) of course it would be logical to do a similar thing with the delay 1 lights, as well.

if you do it as an option "-kinn" would be awesome, but of course you're free to choose whatever name you feel is best :)

again, many thanks for this :)


glassman - for sprite textures in DP, you must name them like s_explod.spr_0.tga, rather than just s_explod_0.tga, i.e. you need the ".spr" extension before the "_0.tga". keep them in the same directory as the sprites and it should be fine. 
I suggested the cap variant as I noticed that your new attenuation will completely change lighting in a map, which will make it very hard for others to try it out.

It might also be a reason why some found the lighting in your map washed out, this might be a result of the high attenuation scheme. With the capped variant, you still have the normal light distribution of a delay 2 light, but the halo is greatly reduced.

I understand that my delay 5 suggestion is a problem if you can't automate the replace process in or off the map editor. In QuArK (which I'm using), such replacing can be very quick and simple. Please check if there's such a way in Hammer, you might use it for other stuff later.

Another way is to just use a normal text editor and change the map file but I'm unsure if you can import it back into the rmf format. Maybe you or another Hammer user know?

I'm just trying to make new tool features as generic and flexible as possible and also make them fit together. Adding a delay 5 for your attenuation mode seems like the structured way of doing it. But since you're probably the first (and possibly the only) one to make use of it, it feels important that it's reasonably simple for you.

There's also the time frame issue, I'm just about to release a new version of Light and it's a bit late for changes. How far off is your release?

Finally, I'd like the zipped map+wad and your modified TyrLite.exe to test the new light feature, since there are no existing maps prepared for it. Is that possible? 
aguirRe, don't worry about the timing - i won't be releasing for at least a few weeks yet. sending you the whole map might be a bit tricky at the moment, as i'm only on dialup - but i'll put together a small test map when i've got a moment. i'll keep you informed :)

as for the "washed out" look - well, i'm convinced that is an outdoor lighting issue - coupled with the contrast adjustments i did to the screenshots. if anything, my method should result in a darker map than normal tyrlite would produce, because my method removes the halo entirely.

i've checked and hammer allows automatic replacing, so feel free to use delay 5 :) 
I'm also on dialup so keeping the size down is always good. However, it's usually not the map file that's a problem, it's the wad that doesn't compress so well.

Please don't forget the modified TyrLite.exe since I want to compare results with it. 
Cliff Design 

Aftre some reply concernig my post about screenshots preview, some of you thought my rock cliff are too clean..... so I'm looking an example of Cliff design (map or tutorial) to improve my map quality: Does someone know where I could find this stuf??

The terrain tutorials are relevant..

I have a terrain map, which (bordering on the ridiculous, I know) is 32,000 brushes. It is on a grid 4096 x 4096 and is the 'canyon' part of a Caves and Canyons map. No brush exceeds the boundary. Before I set the BrushMerge operation going, which is likely to take 24+ hours, I want a quick look at it in Quake.

I knew clip-nodes would be a problem so placed two large Clip Brushes over the terrain and left just a small area for the player entity - I planned to 'no-clip' to look around. The map is not sealed.

It compiles OK (-nofill) with a 3.98M .bsp file but Fitzquake crashes i.e. straight to Windows without an error message.

OK. So no one is surprised. But do you know how I might get such a map into FitzQ? 
You could try TyrQuake instead, it's more tolerant to troublesome maps.

Another way is to remove the clipbrushes and use qbsp option -fill instead. This will force fill (i.e. basically remove) hulls 1/2 if they leak (which you indicate they do).

The actual size of the bsp can't be a problem; I've loaded bsps up around 15 MB.

Anyway, I'd like to have the zipped map+wad if possible. It sounds like a good test case for the compilers. 
Transparent Colour 255 
Am I right in thinking that the transparent colour on sprites - the pink No. 255 - does not act as transparent on models? If so, is there any way of getting transparency on models? 
Hello R.P.G
Thanks for the link, it gives a good overview how to build very good rock and cliff design.... and also how to use the "clip brushes" feature... I haven't used this before so thanks a lot, I'll made the try ASAP..
Q1 Light Tool Update 
at . Main features are soft spotlights and more flexible fast option. Please see readme for details.

Any comments are welcome. 
Model Transparency 
Yeah, you're right that you don't get transparency with that pink, with the possible exception of one software quake engine that claimed it had added that. Only way I know that you can get transparency is with an external tga texture with alpha channel. 
I've had problems in the past when a brush was at one of the 4096 bounds, but it didn't exceed it. I can't recall if it crashed the QBSP or the engine; I think it might have been QBSP. Anyway, if I just moved the edge of the brush 1 unit inside the 4096 bounding it eliminated the problem.

This may or may not be relevant, but I thought I'd put it out there. 
I want a func_door to fall on the player and not retreat back into the open position after it hits the player's head. Because Quake doors don't have a crusher spawnflag like Quake 2, this isn't possible, is it?

/me doesn't want to use func_trains 
Thanks, it did make a difference in as much as I now get an Alloc bloc Full error. Oh well, I think I'll just run the Merge Brush program first and do things normally. 
Would not a "wait -1" accomplish that? 
headthump's suggestion will work, but it will only go down once. if you want it to keep going up and down, you will need to also set the toggle flag on the door, then put a trigger everywhere around the crusher, with a wait key of it's own that would be the approximate time the crusher takes to go from one state to the other. 
Mike: The alloc block full error comes from a brush with a face that is far too large for glquake to handle. don't know what the exact unit X unit amount is, but a safe bet is to just chop anything larger than 2048x2048 and go down from there until the error stops. It should be noted that this may also be caused by an invalid brush which Quake thinks has an infinite face, you can test for these by loading the map in dos or winquake and noclipping outside the map, the offending face will be pretty apparent if you take a good once around. 
Qbsp chops large faces up so I don't see how that would ever happend and I've think we've had this discussion before (although I don't remember what the conclusion was). 
Another Solution 
is to just stretch the texture a whole lot, if it's in an area the player can't see (I've gotten errors like that just from using really big boxes to seal off the level using a non-sky texture) 
Vertex Manip In Gtkradiant... 
jesus crap! wtf is wrong with it?! when working on small brushes, selecting the right vertex is a pain in the ass... for some reason, clicking on one vertex will select another, and clicking far away from the brush will select another vertex... is there any way to change settings so that clicking on a vertex will select that specific vertex and not another one? it's nigh on impossible to create some decent organic shapes as it is. 
Yeap, I Get That Problem A Lot 
I wish I was home so I could get GTKRadient so I could be completely certain (anyway to get it running without one of the specified games being on your harddrive, btw) but if you look on the second toolbar down there is a set of buttons marked x/x y/y z/z this will change the screen that is the current one to reverse the given view so if you were looking from the front you are now looking from the back.
That should help, but I have a feeling someone may need to clarify, and please feel free to do so. 
I Mean 
so I could get GtkRadient up and running 
AllocBlock: Full 
This happens in the lightmap code. Two reasons you'd see this:

1. you too much surface area in your map. Reduce the surface area, or scale up the textures (which reduces lightmap coverage on a surface.)

2. you have messed with the -subdivide option in some qbsp variant, and produced a single surface which is too big for its lightmap to fit anywhere in the memory arrays glquake allocates for lightmaps. You shouldn't be messing with -subdivide stuff anyway, becuase it breaks compatability with old engines (like quake.exe, winquake.exe) 
I don't play with scissors, matches or -subdivide.

Do you mean by "surface area", the amount of the 4096 x 4066 grid that is filled with a brush or brushes? Or is it the total surface area of each and every brush added together, on which light falls?

The point being that my terrain map (following the amendment suggested by R.P.G.) covers the full 4032 x 4032, and contains 32K triangular brushes. Height is only 0 to 1024 at present. And I have not yet added the Caves section of the map, which will add another 32K brushes.

At Brush Merge stage, the brush count will reduce to <8000 brushes but the grid area and the brush surface area will not change.

Perhaps a smaller terrain? 
Surface area meaning actual polygons in the game, becuase these are what consume lightmap space. Either reduce the terrain area, or scale up the texture on it (lightmap resolution is tied to texture resolution.) 
i know putting big clip brushes over complex geometry will reduce clipnodes, what about turning said geometry into func_illusionary? there's no clipping there, because you can walk through them... right? 
qbsp doesn't know what func_illusionary is, so it won't compile it any differently than any other bmodel. And, i'm pretty sure bmodel clipnodes do contribute to the total clipnode count. 
is there any way to trick qbsp into compiling the visual aspect of the brushes, but ignoring the colision part? so like, a bunch of ghost brushes? 
no, but in theory, qbsp could be modified to have that feature. 
nonono... thanks for the info though.

a clipping we will go, a clipping we will go... 
There Are Several 
ways to modify qbsp hull processing for testing purposes. To get the effect that necros mentions, use the option -fill to make qbsp force fill the clipping hulls even if they leak. If they leak, they will be practically removed and you'll have to noclip to move around in the map.

This is especially useful in large maps that leaks, because otherwise the bsp probably wouldn't load in any engine. Please see readmes and ToolTips for more details on this issue. 
I often use your bspinfo tool to create .prt files when I have map leakage. I have never known it to fail to create a loadable map, even when the raw bsp (only qbsp used in the process I mean) wont load.

In fact some of the minor leakage issues wont even effect the size of the map to any substantial degree when a full -vis is done using your tools.

A big thanks for your setup while I am at it. 
Setting Off A Succession Of Func_trains 
I have a series of func_trains. As soon as the first one lands, I want the second one to go, and as soon as the second lands, I want the third to go, etc.. The only way I know of to do this is to measure the distance each train will travel, compute the number of seconds it will take, and then use trigger_relays with "delay" "x". That doesn't seem too bad until you realize that I have seventy-two trains.

So, any suggestions as to how I could do this in a simpler manner? 
Go work you lazy hippie! 
If you have leaks and still want to force a prt file for vis (not recommended though), you can use option -leak 3, i.e. only generate pts file for leaks in hull 3 which doesn't exist.

If the leak is in hull 0, vis processing time will most likely be significantly extended, since the entire outside of the map is also in the prt file.

I'm glad to hear you like the tools. 
the only thing i can think of involves custom qc. custents and hipnotic (i think) have new train code, lets you change speeds at different path_corners, fires targets when trains reach certain corners, and lets you set a 'duration' instead of speed, so it will take 'duration' amount of seconds for the train to go from the one corner to the other.
but no can do with normal quake...
and 72 func_trains? just... wow... 
Gibbin The Progs.dat 
I finally got my Orb and Stegosaur in Quake1 by managing the progs.dat with frikbot.

I got their health and dmg settings up, and to my surprise I could also change the intermission txt between the sequel.
Yes great!

I suddenly got all levels on gravity 800, and I don't know what I done wrong. I used to seek it in World.qc but left it because it wouldn't archieve result.

What's gone wrong? 
I found it, there are several world.qc

Has anyone ever succeeded in creating a Q1level with the habbits of e1m8?
Looks a good speedmap theme to me. 
sdf df</pre> 

if (self.model == "maps/e1m8.bsp")
cvar_set ("sv_gravity", "100");
cvar_set ("sv_gravity", "800");

that's the lines involving the gravity stuff, just change it to this:

if (self.model == "maps/e1m8.bsp")
cvar_set ("sv_gravity", "100");
else if (self.model == "maps/##YOURMAP##.bsp")
cvar_set ("sv_gravity", "##SOMENUMBER##");
cvar_set ("sv_gravity", "800");

and replace ##YOURMAP## and ##SOMENUMBER## accordingly.

ps, no preformatted text? bah. :P 
Thanks For The Replies. 
Progs.dat Gibbin With Me 
Will try it as soon as possible,
thanks for the hint!

using several world.qc documents made my Quake engine somehow drunk... 
Newbie Mapper With Newbie Question 

I just got GTKRadiant 1.4 working the other day, and I'm using texmex for textures. There's one problem I've ran into. When I export textures from .wads the *water/*slime/*lava textures etc are renamed to #water/#slime/#lava because you cant use * in filenames.

Naturally when I compile the map the compiler cant find any #water texture in the wad cause its called *water there. Any suggestions?

And btw, isn't it time soon to make a new mappinghelp thread? I only refresh this thread every time I go to take a shit, cause it takes an age to load. No broadband. 
use proper wadconverter that will convert all the wads to tga and back:

and use proper mapconverter which u can get here:

and kay, log in properly, in this case you'll see only new posts. go to account section and register there... 
That Gravity.. 
Necros, it worked...
many thanx from a spacewalker! 
Kay: use gtkradiant spogbranch, it doesnt require you to convert the textures to tga 
Lightmap Resolution In Q1 
Would it be possible to modify a light util to create higher res lightmaps for surfaces? I understand the lightmaps are currently generated on a 1:1 ratio to texture resolution, would it be possible to increase that to a user specified ratio such as 3:1 4:1 etc... ?? 
To do that, you would at the very least need compiler support (light.exe) and engine support.

To make it a per-surface property (like in medal of honor and other games) you'd need editor and qbsp support, too.

However, a hack that would work in most custom engines is to build the map with HIGH-res textures, with texture scale set to 0.5 or something, and then include LOW-res .tga replacements. This would effectively increase the lightmap resolution.

P.S. Lightmaps are at a 1:16 resolution to textures, not 1:1. 
well no wonder no-one has done it already then... :)

Would be great if it did become possible though, re-lighting all my old maps to see the changes would be very cool. 
At 1:1 ratio would not every pixel in the textures be sampled in, and would not any ratio level above that be redundant? Just my guess (hey, those old tutorials on flip-code have to sink in somewhere). 
when i say 1:16 i mean that one lightmap sample covers a 16x16 texel area. 
Invalid Brushes 
is it possible to create an invalid shape just by using the clipping tool on a block? i've made this simple torch holder shape just by clipping (no vertex manip or rotation or anything). it looks fine in the editor, but is curiously warped ingame.

also, hammer doesn't report it as invalid either, which is odd, considering quake clearly deforms it as if it were. 
try moving it out of the wall to 1 unit (it shouldn't touch wall i mean) 
thanks, i just tried that. unfortunately it's still warped.

basically, i just took a block, clipped two corners off in the x/y plane and then clipped it in the y/z plane so it had a sloped top.

actually, it's not really a problem as far as my map is concerned; i'm quite happy to leave it as it is - the only thing that bothers me is that i don't understand why quake sees it as an invalid brush. maybe i should split it into triangles to be safe? 
well, when using the clipper tool, if you make the vertices not be on the grid, this will cause problems for the compiler. a good trick to see if the brush is going to be ok or not is to simply move it back and forth a bit. gtkr seems to check if the brush being moved is good or not and corrects faults if it finds them, so after you clipped and or vertex manip, just give the brush a nudge.

there's also a plugin that comes with gtkr, i think that fixes brushes...
in plugins->bobtoolz->brush cleanup it will fix all brushes, and select them, so you can see what changes were made... be careful, because it really will fix everything, even brushes you thought were fine. ;)
i now do this often, it gets rid of a lot of funny qbsp warnings like duplicate planes and others like that. 
Yes, That's It 
damn, i can't believe that didn't occur to me.

hammer doesn't seem to have the same sort of vertex correction that you mention gtkr having. i copied/pasted a few of my torch holders around and they all had the same bad shape.

anyway, thanks for your help guys. i have now solved the problem :) 
I've sent you three emails regarding your ne_lend_q1 map without any reply. If you don't reply I can't proceed troubleshooting it since I need more data/info. 
i've replied both times now...
isn't your email: bengt -dot- jardrup -at- ebox -dot- tninet -dot- se?
that's what i've been replying too...

i'll try again right now... 
Thanks, Got It Now 
I'll check if the progs.dat helps reproducing the crash and then I'll get back to you. 
With this progs.dat I also get the error if I use Fitz/TyrQuake, with my new engine it doesn't happen.

The cause seems to be an excessively large message between client and host at startup and I've already increased that limit in my version because of trouble in other maps.

I can see that something called prespawn is about to execute or to be sent and this overflows the message size (8000).

My guess is that there's too much going on at startup time, e.g. too many spawning entities. Is it possible to delay some of the entities so all don't spawn simultaneously?

I've also tracked backwards to the QC code for the monster_egypt and if I put in a return statement just before the setmodel call, the map loads fine. If I move the return to after the setmodel call, I get the same error message again.

Does this make any sense to you or offer any hint what to do? 
i'm not quite sure...
it sounds like all you are doing by placing the return; before the setmodel is stopping the monster_egypt from starting up... so that would certainly cut down on the amount of stuff getting started.

i do know that there is a delay of random amount that gets set for each monster before it gets setup is already present in the code... i'll see if maybe spawning the monsters in manually (ie: going through the startup sequence of model setting and such) will help that.

thanks for the info. i really wish i knew how to do engine coding. :P 
It Appears To Me 
that there's a difference in that I still get the error message even if I return right after the setmodel and before the walkmonster_start call.

The actual call to setmodel is what triggers the error. Could something be wrong with the ne_egypt.mdl or is it just that including it becomes too much for the engine? 
i think it's just that there are a lot of monsters, so with the added setmodeling of the other monsters is what pushes the engine over the edge, so to speak...

have you tried doing return; on other monsters?

i don't see what could be wrong with the model though, it was straight from the DoE expansion with only a reskinning, and it worked fine for that pack (and was used again in SoE, i think? or was that OuM?) and plus i've had him working before in test maps, earlier versions of the map, etc...

i think it's just quake choking on so many setmodel calls. 
Putting In 
a return at the same spot for any of the Ogre, DeathKnight or Shambler will also do the trick. It certainly looks like it's the total sum of them all that pushes the message size and thereby engine over the edge. 
Yep, I Fixed It. 
used a modified version of the zer spawn code, so that way it sets model only when needed (ie when spawned) theoretically, this should allow ridiculous amounts of monsters... hmmmmm ;) 
Necros & PuLSaR 
Both your latest maps seem to have excessive # marksurfaces (> 32k), check the compiler log summary for details.

Some engines might behave unpredictably (e.g. crash) while playing as a result. PuLSaR has already noticed this behaviour in a previous version of his map. Unfortunately, even with the bad brush rebuilt, marksurfaces are still too high.

I haven't been able to actually produce a crash in neither of the latest versions of your maps but some engines clearly have this limitation (and don't enforce it).

I've added warnings in my upcoming compiler version for this and other limits. 
Who's Mark Surfaces? 
and what does it mean? you mean, just plain surfaces? like wpoly? 
Mark Surfas 
Mark Surfas was the founder of PlanetQuake, and therefore the owner of GameSpy Industries. He's also $20 million richer than he was ten years ago thanks IGN buying him out. 
Metlslime (or Any Knowledgable Soul) 
On what we previously discussed. If you were to resample the pixel resolution of the Quake textures in use in your map to twice their normal density you wouldn't significantly change the visual quality of the texture (without touch up work, like adding gradients), but it could noticeably increase the qualitiy of the light map resolution? Do I have that right? Would you think it worth the evening of experimenting I plan on doing tonight? 
Could Be Definitely Be The Geekiest Post Ever 
Any one know where I can find an Elvish font type set? (I am so emberassed) I need it for some textures I wittling. 
I'm Wittling 
spelling/gramatical error compounding my red cheeks 
yeah, becuase lightmap resolution is tied to texture resolution. 
Look in the compiler log summary for the marksurfaces value.

Unfortunately I don't know what they are or exactly how to reduce the value. I assume they are related to brush faces somehow and by reducing complex geometry, they will also be reduced.

What I do know is that if they exceed 32k, some (or maybe even most) engines might behave unpredictably or crash at some point while playing the map.

It's a bug in the original engine code, the bsp limit is actually 64k. 
These are pointers to actual surfaces. Each leafnode has one marksurface for each actual surface that touches the leaf. Since QBSP merges surfaces, a surface may be shared by more than one leafnode, so there are often more than one marksurface for each actual surface. 
An "actual surface" = a wpoly. 
Mark Surfas was the founder of PlanetQuake, and therefore the owner of GameSpy Industries. He's also $20 million richer than he was ten years ago thanks IGN buying him out.

Yep, "Bastard" Is His Quake Alias 
Error Help 
hi everyone. i just tried to load up the latest build of my map in winquake, and it crashed with this error message:

"SZ_GetSpace: 8002 is > full buffer size"

can anyone shed some light? 
Too Many Entities 
this is a usual error in big maps, remove some entities (better bmodels).
I think you need to remove only 1 or 2 entities. 
Thanks Pulsar. 
bugger. that makes sense, as i've added a load of bmodels since my last build. (and i had planned to add a load more!).

i really don't know where to start cutting down... :( 
I've Seen Those Funny 
error messages a lot lately ... 
That's My 
fave error :)
cuz sometimes engines crash without any errors. 
Related Question... 
in quake, you know how the ammo boxes etc. are bsp models? well, does the engine treat these similarly to "proper" brush models like doors etc, i.e. if my error is caused by having too many bmodels, could it also be solved by reducing the no. of ammo box models (replacing them with .mdl versions for example)? 
If you haven't already, take a look at the archived QMap thread at my site, there are a lot of good stuff in there. Just d/l, unzip and open in a browser. 
GTKRadiant Again 
anyone ever notice when your map starts to get big (+4000 or so brushes), there seems to be some sort of lag on the mouse, when right clicking and dragging to move the view? but not really lag... but like, when you right click and start panning the view, sometimes, it "won't let go" and keeps panning for a few seconds... like it received the +rmb, but not the -rmb..? anyway to fix this? is this a problem with the editor or windows? 
hmm, didn't notice that. maybe u got cubic clipping on? it might slow down things if it's on on a large map... 
Very Good Stuff, AguirRe 
thanks for that - quite a few tips under my belt already, and i'm only halfway through the yr 2000 posts! 
I'm currently tweaking a beta level intended for use with a mod though this version is purely vanilla Quake and the game play is complete in and of its self. If you find it mutually beneficial and within your time constraints, I wouldn't mind handing it over for you to examine, and would apreciate any advice you would have to give. 
Sure, I'd Be Glad To 
check it out technically, but I'd rather not play it through for real until you release it.

Just send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it. There's always something new to be learned. 
Beta Testing? 
anyone with a fairly powerful computer up for some beta testing? 
name the game! 
q1sp, of course. ;) 
Oh Wait... 
i'm kind of slow, did you mean that you were showing interest in testing or really was just asking which game? 
Hey, Necros, Pass It This Way 
I'd like to check it out 
your qbsp defaults to on when it comes to tjunc calculations, right? i'm still getting some sparklies, and was wondering if there was anything else i could do... 
well "high-end" to me means something that runs XXX brand new game well... which I cant do. But I run q1 quite well so i can test whatever! 
Just Check 
the compiler log, there should be a section for tjunctions if enabled (which it is default).

The red (from gl_clear) sparkles can still appear in large and/or "natural-looking" (i.e. lots of non-axial brushes) maps. Due to the high precision floats that were introduced in Tree 1.70 and Tx 0.79, sparkles are reduced, though.

My guess is that either you have some minor brush misalignments in those areas or the compiler hasn't been able to get all junctions right.

To see the effect more clearly, set a low uniform light by using the command light -fast -nolight -light 50 -sunlight 0 mapname. Then load the map and move around with gl_clear enabled and it's easier to spot the thin brush seams.

Are the sparkles already there in the version I have (from Apr 8th)? 
Sorry I said those God Awful things about the colour Orange. Can you forgive me and let me beta your level? 
About Fog 

I've seen FitzQuake/GLQuake are able to support fog option: this one can be added via the console typing fog < value 0 to 1> . It adds a fog effect (fog 0 => no fog / fog 1 => you can't see anything but foggy grey screen)...
My question is: is there a method to add this feature in the level editor (using worldspawn entity or other thing) to avoid console typing, or configuration changes into .cfg file ??
I would like to add a smooth foggy effect near the ground of my map..
Is there anybody who have an idea ??

You won't be able to add it just near the ground as what you're talking about is global fog. You would need volumetric fog to just have it in specific areas eg. in Q3 you can make a fog brush to just cover the area you require.

Various Q1 engines support global fog - look in the engine help files to find how to enable it. You should be able to control the depth of the fog as well as its colour.

Some engines also allow you to set triggers to turn it on & off for example when you move between inside & outside areas although this needs to be done with some care so the player doesn't notice. 
OK, it seems to be a little complicated to add fog feature... so I have to forget it.. grrrrr... :(( but I continue thinking it should be great to add foggy environment directly with a level editor: this can clearly increase player insecurity feeling... foggy effect (near the ground or globaly in a full map) is pretty cool to prepare monsters trap, adding secret area without teleport, etc..
Perhaps future Quake engine and level editor will fully support the this stuff.. I hope..
Thanks for your response... 
If you'd map for the Nehahra, you'd be able to manipulate with many such features as fog etc from the editor.... 
I apology for my ignorance but... what is exactly Nehahra ?? 
Volumetric Fog In Q1 
It can be done in a sort of hackish way. Just use a progs.dat that lets you send commands directly to the console with a trigger (hipnotic would work) and set up concentric triggers for increasing density of fog.

It would give the illusion of the player walking *into* fog, but you wouldn't see it from afar.

Although from what Vondur said... Nehahra supports real fog? huh. 
I apology for my previous stupid question... I found the stuff on planetquake server after an internet quick search... I've seen your are involved with CZG in this projects... Nice work really reagrading the screenshots...
Thanks for the info...
I will try it in the future on a litle test map...
It is difficult for a beginner like me to ensure a correct performing of this feature, so I'm pretty sure that when my first map will be released (hoping it will be done one day...), foggy environment will not be included.... even if I found the correct way to include it.... Anyway, I seriously have to improve my mapping effort to build maps as good as some designer do... and so to be able to create some cool feature like foggy environment in a map...
Thanks again... 
Headthump, Inertia, 
just wondering if either of you got my messages. my email has been pretty wierd lately. 
yeah i did, i tried to get the mod running with fuh with -mem 32 and it still said out of memory, i will mess with netquake clients tonight and check it out 
i don't know what's wrong with the other engines, espcecially because fuhquake uses the quakeworld code and not regular netquake code.

i do know it works fine in fitzquake, regular glquake, tyr-glquake and software tyr-quake. it doesn't appear to work in regular winquake though, but it does work in tyr-quake which is essentially the same thing.

i've been using 32mb of ram all the time and it works fine.

i'm posting this here incase Headthump is having the same problem, so he can check this post out... 
I'm afraid the e-mail didn't come though. 
is you're email the one listed in your profile here? 
Yeap, I Double Checked If It Is Correct 
That is the one. I'm missing an email today Nengt as well. It may have something to do with file size. I have a 1.5 meg restriction on things sent out on the account but have never had a problem recieving e-mails larger than that. 
Well, It Can't Be That 
because both times i emailed you, i gave a link to the url.

have you tried emailing me? i haven't gotten anything from you yet if you have... 
Necros I Sent An Email 
Did you get it? 
i replied directly, so if this doesn't work then... heh :P 
I Got Mail! 
<no topic> 
I Had To Go Watch The Daily Show 
Hence the odd time delay. 
aguire: what is the theoretical maximum amount of brushes your qbsp can handle?
These brushes would be very small (roughly 8x4x16 units, not necessarily rectangle) and mostly detail type stuff, not sheer size of the map type brushes.

what other problems can crop up from having a lot of detail type brushes?

say the actual map size is actually small to medium in size, maybe 1.5 times the size of e1m1, or like my nesp16. 
Brush Limits 
are in TxQBSP 64k and TreeQBSP unlimited. I've recently tested with one of Mike Woodham's maps that had 32k brushes and neither of my compilers had any problems with the brush amount.

However, having extremely many brushes will significantly increase compile time and increase the risk of float errors piling up and finally create leaks, clipping errors and HOMs.

Also, normally it's not the # brushes that kills the large map, it's the resulting # clipnodes, nodes, leafs, marksurfaces or other objects that have limits, either in the tools and/or the engines.

Not to mention vis processing times when vis leafs/portals go through the roof ...

I'd suggest that you start easy and check often that the tools/engines can still handle it. 
Re: FuhQuake 
I made a brief test of your ne_lend_q1 map with the latest FuhQuake and it seems to have problems with it, even with -mem 64.

I checked the source too and it doesn't seem to have done anything at all to the limits I've fixed recently. That may explain why it can't deal with your map.

Even FitzQuake 0.75 has problems with it if you e.g. set -heapsize 29000. After loading, the engine starts to choke, consumes a lot of virtual memory and then finally aborts with an error message.

I hope metlslime can find a cure for it, it's a bit tricky. 
Quake Game Skill 

I' about to finish my map, and I started to add some monsters... but in order to play several game skill (easy to nightmare), what are the requirements when adding a monster entity in the map ?? ... I mean, do monster entities need a special field to specify clearly the skill they are involved to ??? Or does the game upgrade monsters aggressivity itself ???

You can use the spawnflags to control at what skill levels an entity appears. On Nightmare skill they automatically have a more aggressive AI. The other skill levels all use the same... you just get more difficulty by having more monsters appear in those skill levels. 

OK, thanks, I have to add a value to spawnflags field... but what are theses values ?? I think easy skill have its own value, medium as well, etc.. How these values are used ???

I think monster agressiveness varies a bit between easy, medium, and hard. 
JPL Again :) 
I'm not sure what editor you're using but in Worldcraft, setting flags is a fairly simple affair. Screenshot...

Look for something like that. 
I'm currently using QuArK 6.4, I'm sure that spawnflag is visible in the entity description, but I can't verify now what are the avalaible fields (I'm currently at my job office, not at home...). I don't know if skills can be set like Worldcraft, or if the required value are directly number (0,1,2 or others... ) 
Let you know,
I've got it up and running without any problems. It slows down in the first large open area, giving the Tenebrae Crunch, but other than that it plays smoothly on my GeForce2 MX series. Officially this system is 733 mhz (pIII) but it actualy clocks substantially better than that.
I have to run in a little bit but I'll be able to give you a full e-mail update this evening E.S.T. time. 
you're playing in tenebrae? jesus crap i didn't think that was possible!

aguire: i don't know what you mean, when you say FQ has problems with the map if you only allocate 29000kb of ram. if you allocate more, those problems vanish.

it also perplexes me why fuh can't load the map while normal glquake can... the original is better than the port? hahaha :D


and yes, i do know about the clipnode limits. :( i've run into problems with that already. although, that's not a problem because all you need to do is throw clip brushes on top of the detail geometry and you're fine.
i don't know about Nodes and leafs though...

and, if you have a big map, with an upper area that mostly is there for the sky (think, beginning of nesp09 at the top), if you clip the whole area, does vis not have to do calculations for that area or no? 
Skill Settings 
I think monster agressiveness varies a bit between easy, medium, and hard.

That's a little known fact. The time delay between attacks decreases each time the difficulty setting is raised, until you get to Nightmare where there is no delay at all. Try it. On Nightmare, if you stand under a ledge where an ogre can see you but not hit you with its grenades, it will keep firing indefinitely with no pause between each shot.

AFAIK, the only other difference between skill settings is the speed that Vore balls fly at. They fly faster and faster for each incrementally more difficult skill setting, until they are traveling faster than the player on Nightmare.

So, if you know how to exploit it -- and if the map is built in such a way -- Nightmare can actually be easier than Hard. 
The delay between attacks and the voreball speed only changes on nightmare skill. On all the other skill levels they are the same.
Exception is Chthon that has only 1 health on easy and 3 on other skills, and his fireballs try to lead the player on hard and nightmare.
Also, on nightmare monsters don't go into their pain animations more than once per 5 seconds 
I can't see any reason for any program to start consuming all virtual memory just because you manually haven't figured out the magic limit yet ...

As for clip brushes, they can only reduce # clipnodes, they won't affect the visible hull at all (and therefore cannot help vis). 
there's no way to tell regular vis to 'forget' about processing a certain area? would that be doable without changing the engine? 
The Only Way 
I know is through manually changing detail world brushes into e.g. func_walls. It's without doubt the fastest way to significantly reduce vis leafs/portals, but it has some drawbacks (e.g. no shadow casting). See my ToolTips for more details.

Newer games have e.g. area portals or explicit detail brush attributes that help reducing vis times, but I believe they also need careful planning to be used effectively.

In theory, you could change qbsp's portal handling to automatically cluster small leafs to help vis, but I don't know how to do that. I'm not entirely sure that it wouldn't require specific engine support either. 
well, it was worth asking anyway ;) 
That problem is easily solved by placing a simpler poly go version of the func_wall object inside the func_wall to cast the shadows in its stead. 
A Regular Brush Model I Mean 
but then you get like double the r_speeds... O_o that can't be good! :) besides, i don't really like wasting a bmodel slot for just details/reducing vis time when it could be better spent on a cooler door or something like that. ;) 
remember you can group all your func_walls into one within certain limitations. 
Did you get my 2nd attempt of the buzz73 report or was it also lost in SpamFilter County? 
I Just Double Checked The E-mail Account 
It isnt showing any new messages from you; though it to be honest a lot of people I know have been having trouble this week getting their e-mail. I finally got Necros' and a few others last night.
Also, I don't filter the e-mail for any content except for virus protection though I can see how a filter may interpert buzz73 as a gratuidious drug reference though at the time I was looking for a simple word at the beginning of the alphabet for the file name.
I'll e-mail you and see if that goes through. 
Strange Message In Console.. 

Thanks for those who helped me yesterday about monsters' skill settings: I found the stuff in QuArK.... :))
Now, my map is 99% finished, and a strange message appeared yesterday night in the Quake console at the game start during a building test: TOTAL_CHANNELS == MAX__CHANNELS ... What does it mean ??? I use FitzQuake0.75 and it's the first time I have this message (never encountered it before, even with other engine...). Does somebody know what's the problem ???

that means you have too much sound sources in the place. try either removing some monsters or ambient_sound entities... 
hmmm... I didn't set ambiant_sound entities yet... it can only comes from the default ambiant sound, water, lava, monsters, and func_door...
Does it mean the game is able to crash ??? Or is there a method to increase channel number to avoid this problem ?? 
it won't crash afaik, it'll just print that message on console until you exit the area with that many sounds... 
When i load my map in glquake i get this error, 'AllocBlock :full'
any ideas? 
hmmm i forgot how i fixed that, but try -heapsize 32000 first 
-heapsize 32000 didn't work. The map loaded in winquake, but it looks like a brush goes on to infinite. 
OK, I think it's possibly linked to the last hall, because it appears only once at the beginning of the game (starting from a test_player_start). I will check all entities' sound settings (if a field exists) to make sure nothing is missng...
Just one other questions: what is the effects during the game ?? I mean, I've noticed nothing while playing... so maybe this message is just informative ... and it's not usefull taking into account this message ....
yeah, it's like info warning, the game shouldn't crash 
hmmmm, well rebuilding problem brush should do then... 
Thanks, I'll check the stuff this evening, thank you for your help.... I was afraid the problem was destructive...
Thanks again.. 
I've got your email and I've sent mine for the 3rd time, this time without the buzz word in the subject. 
Take a look in my Q1 ToolTips document in the Engine Problems section, you'll find it here: 
Just ignore TOTAL_CHANNELS == MAX__CHANNELS. It shows up in lots of big maps with a buttload of flames and torches because of all the fire sounds. (see perssp2, rpgsp1, etc.)

When you reach the static entity limit, that's when you need to start worrying. :) 
Thanks, I know how to look for now... the final hall is quite big and numerous torches are used (at least 24 if I remember well).. if I add lava, monsters and buttons and doors, total sound number must be quite bigger than the game can support...
Just a precision, what is the TOTAL_CHANNELS maximum value allowed ??? 
I think it's 8. 
hmmm... does it mean that only 8 different sounds are allowed in one closed hall (for example), or does it mean that only 8 sounds are allowed in a full map ???
As I said previously, I've seen no effects during the game... So what should be the effects on sound "rending" during the game ??? 
It can't be in the entire map so I presume it means within audible range at any one spot. I forget now how "audible range" is defined in quake but I think it is a matter of a certain number of units distance from the source.

Probably during the games some of the sounds don't play but if it's just the 9th flame sound that cuts out your hardly likely to notice. 
So, if I understand correctly it really doesn't matter: only the 8 nearest sources can be heard, and the others are "switched-off"... Am I right ??? 
I Think That's Right 
bit I'm not sure exactly how sound channels work or how quake prioritises monster sounds over ambient sounds for example. You might learn more from the QC spec 
AquiRe It May Be Butting Up Against The 
1.5 meg size e-mail limit on my account. Previously, this has only effected the size I send out however, and not what I recieve. 
After a quick read, it seems to detailed only the basic C functions and not the entire engine architecture in itself... sound function can be found, channel max value is 8 for entities, and channel priority is not described (I didn't find the stuff...)
Anyway, thanks for the informations...
It can't be the size; it's just four kb. I've now sent it a fourth time. Do you have another address I could try? 
it's funny... like three days later, i got the mail undelivrable message for the second email i sent you, HeadThump. your mail is funny. :D 
Did you get my e-mail regarding the HOM effect? Looking at the posts, lately there seems to a problem with e-mails. 
Holy Moly 
Does this email thingy work at all? Mike, yes I've got it and replied, trying again right now.

It's a conspiracy, I tells ya ... 
Total Channels 
I have *never* noticed a sound problem while playing any map that exceeded total channels == maxchannels. 
You Think That Is Weird 
I've discovered a second account I have under instead of It had a back log of two years worth of e-mail and a handful of legitimate mail from friends. Absolutely mind blowing. I had no idea it was there until I looked into my Window resources under Outpost and saw I saw the name. 
Hey, Give That Address A Try, AquiRe 
It does work. I e-mailed my main account. 
Fifth attempt here we go, this time to alan643 instead of alanr643. 
I Didnt Recieve It 
This is really raising my blood pressure exponentialy. I am noticing many of the design flows and eyestabbing aesthetics (grotesque in its cloy toyishness, like the Volkswagon Bug)of my msn client that I have learned to gloss over since I have had this account. I'm going to grab a beer and come back to this later. Anyone have any recommendations for free e-mail account services? 
it's the most popular thing around... 
Sixth Attempt 
This time directly from my MyRealBox account to alan643. 
It's There! I'm Actually Looking At It 
A miracle! 
Thanks AquiRe That Helps Alot 
There are more off grid vertices in the map then I realized. These are usually caused by the method I use for cutting brushes. 
Got it!

I have played with Bob a bit and cleared the leak-through-solid-brush just by Brush Merging. But the invisible brushes remain (each connected with badly aligned brushwork) and one superb HOM, which because of the ceiling being a mirror image of the floor, really is like looking in a mirror.

I will probably just 'square-up' my problem brushes, or maybe put a door there!

Thanks for your help. 
... the entrance to a cave where Willy the Spider lives! 
Spagetthi Code 
Wanted to add a new monster to Quake1.

Made a rat.qc - changed some things in the ai.qc - and added a rat.qc to the progs.qc

Now the console tells :
callo 1453
ai.qc : ai_run
rat.qc : rat_run1
monster_start_go : nofunction
stack overflow

I tried to set the rat.qc on my homepage, but it won't come through.
Is it really that hard to put in a new monster
and not substitute one??? 
well, no too. if you know what you're doing, it takes about 5 minutes to get a new monster going just by cnping another monster's code.

just make sure you change the name of all the functions to new ones, which i think you did, otherwise you wouldn't have been able to compile it...

i'm not sure, but this looks like something i got earlier... are you trying to have attack functions alongside ai_run functions? i ran into this problem with the gaunt monster i'm working on with kell. it looks like there's too many function calls in the same frame, so you might have to write your own movement code, and put in the shooting code with it like i ended up doing. it leads to lots of writing, sadly. :\ 
What compilers are you boys using? 
Re: Q 
aguiRe's txqbsp + vis, and Tyrann's Tyrlite. 
all of aguire's utils 
I rewrote the code for the dog and the enforcer. That was relatively easy, as all the code is already there.

Adding a monster is changing the code, so I am hopefully comparing the rat's code from
But as they are both different progs.dat, I have something as a rat.qc This has already all the rat's actions in it, but then the ai.qc starts recalling the rat.qc...
Frikqcc gives an outcome, but doesn't spawn the monster_rat. So I'm compiling, but it's kind of a hard carrot for me poor coder. 
I was asking necros + madfox what qc compiler they were using. 
I Beg You C+code? 
Frikqcc don't sound compiler?
then my spagetti codes macaroni... 
LTH: i use proqcc. i know frikqcc is newer but they are all the same to me. :P it's not like it takes five days to compile code, so speed increases don't mean anything. ;)

HeadThump, Inertia: how's the testing coming along? 
Q1/Radiant/*Water Fux0rage, 
Dunno what could be causing this, but for some reason water textures aren't making it to my .bsp files. The .wads are compiling properly afaik (in other words, all the other textures of the same .wads as the water textures appear in the finished map), but no water textures are present. The only thing that I could come up with is that the .jpg files used in Radiant to represent the textures aren't capable of using an asterisk (*) in the filename, but use a hash (#) instead -- but that wouldn't affect the compile, would it? 
Hey Necros, 
Though the vising isnt completed, its smooth enough now for a second run. I wasn't sure if I had to cheat the first time because of system crunches (scags being able to catch me on the fallow through spit when they normally would not) or because it is a difficult level. Probably both, but I'll get a more specific update before I crash in bed around 1:00 am EST tonight. 
Biff, It Cetainly Would 
I keep water, teleport, lava and slime textures in a pak that do not have the '*' in front of the name, and a seperate wad of the original Quake textures with the asterik that I use for compiling manually.

When I'm ready to compile, I open the map with Notepad and replace 'water1' for example with '*water1', save and then compile. 
The First Pak Is For Use With GTKRadiant 
Ahh, Cool. 
Thanks, Thump =D 
The version of Mapcon that I use has a -chars switch that automatically converts the # symbol in texture names to *. That's version 1.3.0. 
Making Decent Rocks In WC 
I'm trying to add rocks to an outdoor section of my map, and my attempts so far are really bad looking.

any advice for a rock n00b? 
Sound Problem, And More... 

I fixed my TOTAL_CHANNELS = MAX_CHANNELS , but now, near the same location (in the map, during the game) a door sound is not audible... The func_door entity have its sound effect set, but it can't be heard during the game: what's the problem ???
I also have a PACKET OVERFLOW<b/> message apearing during the game... what's this ???

Take A Look Here

Several of your recent problems seems to be listed there. Packet overflow errors generally means that you have too many things happening at one time. The server part sends too many messages to the client part which overflows.

This can cause missing sounds and entity flicker; the engine is choking.

Running fast/fullvis on the map (so less things are visible for the player) will probably help, but might not cure the problem completely. 
Thanks a lot for the link... it gives me some cool and usefull informations...
About my problem, it seems that packet_overflow and sound disappearance are linked... Well, I know where to look for now: there is too juch entities in this area... grrr... I will make some tries reducing its number, hoping it solves the problem... So, the big challenge will be now to preserve the map difficulty I'm looking for... hmmm...
Do you think it will be helpfull to finish the map without any monsters (removing all of them if necesssary), and adding it gradually to avoid this kind of problems ??? What would be the good method ??
More Stuff 
About my problem, it seems that packet_overflow and sound disappearance are linked... They usually happen together, when you're in a really big fight with lots of corpses / gibs / nails / grenades / voreballs / etc. all in one place. 
... of course, if you were to use a newer engine... 
... I apology for my poor english, but I'm not really sure to understand what you mean.... 
Have you fullvised the map to see if the problems persist? Many maps expose these problems when not vised, so the engine must render too much.

Try also enabling the r_speeds cvar in GLQuake and check out the epolys value, this indicates how many entity polys that are visible. If too many, you might have to consider reducing visibility.

My suspicion is that this is your basic problem. You can also run Win/TyrQuake, enabling r_draworder and see how much of the map that suddenly becomes visible.

Try also a Google search of "packet overflow" quake and see what turns up ... 
Engine Refers To A Rebuild 
the Quake executable. You wont get packet overflows with DarkPlaces because entity management is handled by a higher bit extension then Quake was originally built in. So you could have several thousand models in a single level if you so desired. 

Yes, I made the try running full process (BSP + VIS + LIGHT)... and the problem remains....
So, considering all previous advices, I will try to enable r_speed cvar in FitzQuake in order to check out epolys value, but, what is the maximum value value I must reach.. some says 800, others 2000 (If I remember correctly, Vondur said that in a previous post...)... but what's the good one according to your experience???
And, if I need to reduce visibility, how can I do ??
Thanks a lot..

There Used To Be 
certain recommended values to aim for (especially in DM maps), but I doubt they're still valid today.

What I meant was to use these numbers and methods to quantify your current situation, which seem to choke the engine. When you see the numbers go down, you know you're making progress.

Reducing visibility can be done by using vis blockers, i.e. donut designs, walls etc. Think of a large open arena with many small objects (faces or entities) as the worst possible scenario for vis or the engine.

Look at many older Q1 maps and you'll see that most of them have a layout and entity amount/placement that prevents the arena situation.

I believe one of the challenges in Q1 mapping is to make interesting and fun maps while still keeping them playable in most engines. 

I did it last night, I mean trying r_speeds value... after a full process (bsp + fullvis + light) there seems to be some very big value... As you felt, in the main big area, the r_speeds number increases up to 10000 (more or less..) I achieved to reduce it down to 1500 by an additional wall that cut the visibility....
But still remaining the problem of packet_overflow and sound disapperance... so I tried removing all monsters... packet overflow error disappear, but sound is still "inaudible"... and other problem, a big HOM problem appears at the beginning of the map while it doesn't exists before .... (and no errors/warnings occured during compilation...)
It's very discouraging to see these problems incoming while the map is almost achieved...
Anyway, I will try removing back all groups, one by one, to find where is located the problem... with a bit of luck, it can work...

Send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it. 
I will do it this evening... I'm at my job office now, and till to 17:00 ...

Thanks again for your help... 
This is probably one for you:-

I have a sealed i.e. no leaks, map of 2600 brushes. I do get several Cut_Node_Portal erros but the map runs fine in its own right.

I have a second sealed map of 600 brushes, which again runs fine in its own right.

So I import smaller map into larger map and get a leak through a solid brush when building Hull 1.

I have changed the brush concerned, overlapped surrounding brushes etc. The brush is one of many (terrain type triangles) on the 'floor' of the level but I have also added a large 'sealing' brush beneath the terrain to try to avoid the misaligned brush problems (this is not one of my large terrains!), which has been in place long before the import.

The only slightly unusual thing is that at present the imported map is entirely unconnected in any way to the larger map: I have imported it just to see how I can fit it in. I have not exceeded the world boundary - close to the edge but 32 units to spare.

If I delete the imported map (select Group and CTR X) without saving or reloading, I can immediately compile without leaks.

Bit long winded... any pointers? Anyone?

And I still have one more section to import! 
Not Exactly Any Help 
but maybe some kind of attempt to explain why it's happening. The compiler quickly translates all brush faces in the map file into infinite planes with a normal (perpendicular to the plane) that specifies direction and a distance from origin (0 0 0).

This pair identifies the plane and they're represented by float values (in my compilers 64 bit double precision). One can rather easily suspect that the more of these infinite planes there are in a map, the more risk of planes getting too close (i.e. coplanar) for comfort due to numerical inaccuracies.

I believe that this might be one reason why bigger maps sooner or later start to exhibit weird leaks or clipping errors. I know maps where it appears nigh impossible to get rid of these problems.

In your case, you have two maps that you merge together and both are terrain generated, which means many triangular faces and as I've mentioned before, this appears to be extra provoking for the compiler.

This is all only a theory, though; I can't substantiate it. Still I recommend to inspect the areas of the warnings and try to get rid of them, in my experience the warnings seem valid and should be corrected.

If you can't proceed, send me the map and I'll see what I can do. 

The build process for the enlarged map was:-

1. small terrain (honestly!)
2. then one self contained non-terrain map
3. then the linking brushes created on-the-fly in the new map
4. then the attempt to bring in the later map

Each map compiled ok on its own.

I think perhaps I will just release the terrain + one section as a stand alone 'quickie'. At least I can cram it with monsters and end up with a Serious Sam style arena fight at the end.

It seems that I am fighting a losing battle here with the limits of the tools ... I know "a bad workman blames his tools".

Trouble is, time is tight and I go in three weeks.

You're welcome to have first look as you have helped a lot over the last few weeks.

Thanks again. 
One Thing I Would Try.. 
is moving the imported section nearer in than 32 units from the edge. I seem to recall having problems myself with brushes that close. 
... but no good. I am working with very little room left in the 4096 world-space as this has become a very 'flat' map. Ho hum, start map and three small additional maps then.

Two general questions:

How many units from the player can a generated sound be heard? I do not want the player to hear monsters being teleported in so am wondering how far away from the spawn site I need to set the trigger.

Can I switch off the monster-spawn sound from within the monster's .qc file? I cannot find a reference to the spawn .wav (r_tele5.wav?) in the .qc but has anyone tried this? Maybe it's hard coded in the engine? 
Tele Sounds 
The function that plays ALL the teleport sounds is play_teleport() on line 282 in triggers.qc, so if you wanted to make ALL teleports (monsters, player) silent, you could just remove the contents of that function. (Or at the very least, comment away line 299, you might want to keep line 300 though...) 
Tusen takk!

(sum total of my trip to Hemsedal last Christmas) 
Wait A Second... 
Isn't there a "silent" spawnflag on the teleporter? 
yes, but that only gets rid of the 'humming' ambient sound that trigger_teleports emit. 
Teleport Sounds 
Zerst�rer has a spawnflag for truly silent teleports. 
My last map suddenly run out of light.
What can I do?

142entity - 130lights
GetFileSpace : overrun 
What Light Are You Using? 
if you're not, i highly suggest using aguire's light util, because it seems you have hit a limit which aguire's stuff probably removed. 
Aguire's Light Tool 
I deleted 16 torches, and the problem was solved. Could be something in the animated light count.

Never had the message before. 
If It's My Light 
tool, it must be a very old version < 1.14 (Aug 2002). Later versions have another more informative error message. 
Q1 Tools Update 
at . Main features are new attenuation formula (delay 5) and improved additive minlight in Light, engine matched validation in compilers and a new GLQuake engine especially made for mappers. Please also see readmes for more details.

Any comments are welcome. 
Gtkrad 1.5 
I'd like to start using GTKRadiant 1.5 but turning off 'Freelook in camera view' doesn't seem to work in the Preferences. Is it just me having that problem? 
What are the mapper specific features in your version of glquake? 
thanks man, this is awesome stuff.

first of all, the engine is a great idea. there are times when every engine i try to use packs up and leaves. i doubt i'll use it for much playing, because it doesn't look like you've made it any more efficient than the regular quake, and i doubt i'll make a map specifically for it either because of that, but this should help immensly with testing and such. at least now, when i hit a limit, i can keep building and testing while i try to figure out what's wrong as opposed to just stopping and searching and waiting and such. :)

also, i'm a big fan of delay 5. i didn't use many delay 2 lights in my maps after i started using fitzquake, because the overbright feature would make the lights way too bright, and i realised that this must be what it looks like in software... being able to specifiy a max light limit is great, and Kinn rocks hard for coming up with something like that. (but thanks for implementing it in your tools, aguire)

i haven't really experimented much with the new minlight setting though... i try to stay away from minlight as much as possible. :P

cheers on excellent work! 
like he said in the readme, there aren't really any features for mapper, the only feature is that almost all limits that would normally crash quake before even letting you see the map are bumped way up (ie: edicts from 600 to 2048)

it's not really meant for normal play or for mapping specifically for. 
Fuck, Triple Post... 
one thing i forgot to mention, Aguire:
don't name your engine glquake.exe, because it's not meant to be a glquake replacement. glquakebjp is perfectly acceptable ;) besides, it makes unzipping it a pain, because now i have to unzip to another directory, rename then copy it into the quake directory. same me some steps, eh? ^_^ 
I have experienced the same problems. I've also reverted back to using the beta 1.3.11 because I find the changes in the interfaces of the newer versions iratating and counterproductive to what I try to accomplish. 
The "GLQuake Mapper version" just means that its focus is on loadability and viewing of large troublesome maps.

Since mappers at one time or another create maps that indirectly (e.g. via leaks) or directly exceed normal engine limits, I hope this version is of special use for them.

It's not meant as a replacement for FitzQuake or other engines, just a complement. 
I toyed with the idea of making up yet another engine name but decided against it, since all my other tools also kept their original names.

Since I don't plan to make that many more improvements to this engine (unless someone finds a reasonably valid bsp it can't load), I hope it won't be too cumbersome with the file renaming.

I'm glad you like the tools, let me know if you have problems with them. 
Thanks AguirRe.. 
Sorry I didn't spot the isn't in the zip. That sounds very useful.

Headthump..I fine with 1.4 but I definitely need to turn freelook on. I've reported it as a bug. 
Your Huge Map 
Day of the Lords was one that I tested the engine capacity on. Sometimes when compiling that map you get a leak near the beginning of the map.

The resulting bsp is normally not loadable in any engine, but now it is. Just fly around and inspect the whole outside of the map when it's not removed by the compiler. Then load the pts file and you can find the leak spot immediately.

Even the old SoE map soe2m4 which was mega huge before Tronyn decided to split it can now be loaded and inspected for the leak trail.

Maybe the engine can also handle the upcoming project that Tronyn is working on. 
I've Noticed 
with 1.4 the default settings uses the QeRadiant standard 'delete - insert' for the zoom-in, zoom-out instead of the 'shift mouse drag' that is second nature for me now. Changes like that are a bit irksome though I do have 1.4 set up for Half-Life mapping. 
Yes I had that problem intermittently - strangely I got it to compile (without a leak) by slightly moving one of the entities in the beginning outside area. Not sure why that would work other than perhaps reshuffling the entity order in the map file. Where is the leak?

HeadThump-shift RMB drag does work in 1.4 in the 2d windows. 
It's The Same As 
we discussed before; the leak is in the rocks to the left of the entrance cave in the open area.

When inspecting the leak, it seems to be one of those that there really isn't any explanation of; all brush junctions seem OK (although a bit complex) in the area. By manipulating one of the brushes, the leak goes away.

My only guess is that it's the size of the map that finally puts the numerical errors in the float calculations over the edge. 
Hi dude, I'm glad you like delay 5 (and massive thanks to AguiRe for implementing it in his light program). What I find looks awesome is to use it in conjunction with "wait 2", e.g. for a nice, dramatic walltorch, try:

light 600
delay 5
wait 2 
I wated to synchroon func_trains, as I am using 5 related through eachother.
Found it somewhere at 3D-Inside, but lost it.

Can't find it...again. 
Gtkrad Keys 
Anyone know if it's possible to change the keyboard assignments for gtkrad 1.4 upwards? Specifically I'd like to change the freelook camera move arrow keys to a wasd set up. 
you can create your shortcuts.ini file with your key bindings. this file should be placed in your q3/rad1.4 dir. 
but..the freelook controls seem to be really buggy once I've changed them. They work fine using the default arrow keys but with a new set up (actually esdf) sometimes they work, sometimes not, sometimes the key off doesn't work so the camera carries on moving. I've changed the other shortcuts that clash. Any ideas? 
not really, cuz i avoid using freelook. sorry.
i use arrows and ctrl/shift modifiers to move in 3d view. 
I agree! (although I use RMB + ctrl)..but non-freelook in v1.5 (Spog's q1 branch) doesn't support it. If you feel like it you could encourage Spog to add support by commenting in this bug report:

See also: 
make sure caps lock is not on, because that will affect letter keys.
also, the key releases for the arrow keys are bugged as well. if you press up and then 't' or something that brings up a window, the view will continue to move forward, even if you let go of the forward key. you need to close the windows and press the same key to stop it. 
Where Can I Get Q1 Textures? 
Where's the best site for Quake 1 texture sets? I've tried searching google but it's all QUake 3 stuff coming up with the occasional Q2 bits. 
Look For Links 
in the Definite WAD Collection thread: 
Texture Dimensions. 
A quick texture question. I have a texture that's 128 x 8 pixels, and it crashes Winquake. Keeping the width at 128, what's the smallest height for it to be valid? 
Textures can't be smaller than 16 pixels in any direction. 
I'm making a Q1 terrain map. All goes well until I'm adding the last sections of detail and refining gameplay when:

TreeQBSP v1.96 -- Modified by Bengt Jardrup

Input file: C:\quake\id1\maps\
Output file: C:\quake\id1\maps\kellmet4.bsp
---- LoadMapFile ----
*** WARNING 06: No info_player_deathmatch entities in level
Title: "Blah"
18989 faces
3486 brushes
270 entities
39 unique texnames
271 texinfo

Building hulls sequentially...
Processing hull 0...
---- Brush_LoadEntity ----
*** ERROR 32: Face coordinate out of range (100000.000000)

1 warning

Elapsed time : 0:02

Peak memory used : 3.5 MB

The terrain mesh is 32x32, though I have a smaller section to generate separately and bolt on to one of the corners.
The terrain squares are 128x128 units. I was using 256x256 but it looks cack and makes traversing the terrain awkward.
There are three large bits of architecture on the terrain and several smaller ones. All of the large bits contain pseudo-curves ( domes and pipes ) only some of which I was able to make into func_illusionarys.
Compiling worked fine up until I added just a few more brushes for a small chunk of techy architecture and *wham*...above error.

I suspect I simply have too many surfaces in the map now and will have to prudently chunk some of my detail.
Is this the case? 
Func_illusionary Vs Func_wall 
You do know that you can use func_wall instead of func_illusionary if you want to have collision detection for it but not block vis, right? I dunno why you were only able to make some stuff into func_illusionary, but if it's due to lack of collision detection then that might help.

Err but I think you knew that. 
I don't think I've experienced that error before, but I've seen it mentioned at QuakeLab . The original error message was CheckFace: BUGUS_RANGE ....

It appears to be a face that the compiler thinks is too big. I can't find any limit that indicates that there are too many of anything.

If you wish, you can send me the zipped map+wad and I'll take a look at it. 
RPG: yeah, I know the difference. I just prefered illusionaries in this case because of the collision thing as well. I can then build simpler, rectangular solids inside them ( out of clip or black ) to approximate collision.
By 'only some ' I meant, there is some pseudo-curved stuff that needs to be solid to cast shadows, or interiors will look floodlit :/

aguirRe: thanks, I may send it to you. I hope it is something to do with size of a face rather than total number; the map's almost finished and culling superfluous detail always makes me anxious.
I'll have a look around the map when I get home and send it to you tomorrow.

Thanks for the info guys. 
Thanks Czg 
that's done the trick :) 
Kell, Do You Use Gtkradiant? 
you can run the map through the brush checker and it usually gets rid of busted brushes. 
Be Sure To Back It Up 
Last map I brush checked like that started leaking like a sieve. 
mmmm, yes. that tends to happen... but i don't think the map would have started leaking after the check because it basically does what qbsp does. when qbsp gets wierd brushes with duplicate planes and such, it tends to mutate them much in the same way the check does, so it's likely that qbsp would "make" the map leak as well. course, there could be some exceptions... (aguire, any input?)

the nice thing is that after the check is done, it selects all the modified brushes, so you can check to make sure the modifications didn't leak the map or somesuch. 
Entirely My Fault 
for including my 'itty, bitty' brushes in the hull. Oh well. Live. Learn. Get Luvs for those messy spills. 
when qbsp finds duplicate planes, planes with no normal etc, it just drops the plane, it doesn't change it.

What might happen though is that when this particular plane is dropped, the brush isn't closed anymore (i.e. doesn't form a closed volume) and this isn't good.

In the latest version of my compilers, I've added a check for simple axial brushes (i.e. cubes) being closed. I haven't figured out how to check non-axial brushes.

PuLSaR actually had this issue in his upcoming map and when fixing it, the # clipnodes went down pretty much and in a big map this might be crucial.

I've also added some info regarding this in my latest ToolTips. 
Re: Face Coordinate Out Of Range 
Well, I had a very recent back up copy of the map and compiled that successfully - error gone.
The last brushwork that I was adding before the error, involved some cloning of existing brushes ( to get the same variations of texturing on the faces and lock the brushes at the same height; they were wide steps ) and I started to use Radiant's edge manipulation. As is sometimes the case, the brush disappeared instantly, indicating an invalid of some sort.
I ran bobtoolz brush cleanup and it removed the offending step straight away.
Thing is, when I continued to work on the same feature in the same area, I created and deleted some brushes myself, then CTRL+Z'd. When the brushes returned, some of their faces were white, like a point entity. No texture. I couldn't change the texture afterwards either.
So a combination of Radiant and my sickly HDD probably cause some mutant brush error that I couldn't see properly in Radiant to fix. Even brush cleanup didn't recognise it.
So anyway, not entirely sure what the problem was, but it's gone.

The map's coming along nicely btw, due in no small measure to aguire's bsp coping easily with my huge terrain mesh. Thanks for that :) 
I've added coordinates to that error message, should it appear again. 
Brushes Disappearing In Radiant 
I remember having trouble with brushes that were edited in Radiant and then disappeared. That was back in the olden days, and David Hyde used one of my maps as a reference for getting MapSpy to detect those brushes. Even though it's targeted at Q2, Mapspy can be very useful in tracking down rogue brushes of that sort. It outputs the brush number, which makes it pretty easy to track it down even if the editor isn't displaying that brush. 
Hey guys, I'm new here - glad to see there's still people who mod for Q1 ;). Anyhow here's my question; do Hexen 2 maps require special compilers designed specifically for them or can I use ones for Quake1 as well? I tried to use aguirRe's bsp and light compilers but light gives me this error for one map (I used it for another map and it seemd to light fine):

************ ERROR ************
LoadBSPFile: odd Model lump size

while bsp gives me this error for any map I try to compile:

************ ERROR ************
Invalid brush plane format on line 14

This is line 14 in the .map file:

( 3630 525 -105 ) ( 3630 524 -105 ) ( 3960 524 -105 ) rtex066 0 0 0.0 1.000 1.000 -1

Meh, I wouldn't be trying this if the people in the H2 mod scene didn't amount to my hand's digits :(. 
i'm afraid you have to use h2 compilers only... 
Thought So 
Thanks, Well I'll just be off to bug the dude making NewHexen, he's done some pretty good stuff with both the compilers and engine so far.

I may be back! ;-) 
has more hulls than Q1 (5 or 6 I think), so my utils won't do I'm afraid. It