|Posted by Trinca [220.127.116.11] on 2006/04/11 05:52:17|
|As many of you no doubt know, Quake almost have 10 years i think is in 22 of July, why dont we all try to make a small polish map to this day and release it, all in same day? theme could be something like...
what do u guys think?
...not that the choice between four episodes really gives the player much freedom.
so a better question would be why recent games are so extremely linear in themselves - the levels (no choice of routes, approaches, etc.). in the end, we could answer this question ourselves, but maybe it can trigger something in the 'officials' if the interviewer adds some aggressive "huh?" after each one, or something like that.. ;)
as for the participation/forum thing metl introduced (also in relation to something i read at i3d): having a simple, registration-free forum integrated into the qexpo site would be a very good way of bringing everybody together. maybe one general forum and seperate ones (or at least a thread) for each booth. dunno how feasible this is, but i don't think it poses too much of a problem.
oh, i forgot:
i also vote for quake1 only.
since it's an unscheduled event - quake's 10th birthday - it should only focus on that very game.
regular, bi-annual qexpos, like the next one (if there will be another one at all) can include all three games again.
although, one could argue that, since quake1 is the father of all following games, the other quakes should have a chance to 'congratulate' it, as well. but i don't. :)
that the onus should be on Quake 1, but why shut out the fans of later Quakes completely?
RPG, I think you can go back and select certain chapters of HL2 to replay. I don't really rate the game that highly myself though, so I might just be talking complete arse here.
They could try to experiment with the episode format in a different way. For example, what if the story wasn't so linear, but kind of open ended? What if the structure of each episode depended on what had happened in the universe already?
Say that there's 2 episodes in this game; The first has you defending Earth from an alien invasion, the second has you fighting on the alien mothership in a counter attack.
Now, say you play the first episode first. You're actually playing the levels as alien pods scream down from the atmosphere and crash through buildings into pavement, etc etc. At the end, you defeat the ground General guy, and prepare for the counter attack in episode 2. Along with way, you helped several resistance groups, story, blah.
So you get to episode 2, and they're aware you were coming since their ground force was defeated. They've prepared a massive defense on their mothership; not only do you have to get to the center of the ship to destroy the Mother Mind, but you have jump from Alien Cruiser to Alien Cruiser on your way their.
No, say you reversed the episodes, and played episode 2 first and episode 1 second. All of a sudden, attacking the mother ship is like a sneak attack; You're in space in your attack pod on your way to kill the Mother Mind at the same time all those other attack pods scream towards Earth. All those cruisers never knew you were coming.
So you kill whatever, and return to Earth, only to find out that Earth couldn't defend shit without you. Now all of Earth is a cliche apocaplyptic world, humans have been enslaved and they've ALREADY started setting up alien mines, factories, and human cubing plants. Suddenly saving Earth is looking a lot more grim.
Well anyway, I think shows that the episode format could possibly be better than a linear game. Feasible for development houses to put in the extra time? Well, it does kind of double the gameplay, while using some levels twice and others only once, you can make a totally unique experience with (only some minimal ?) extra effort. Just an example though.
Now what does this have to do with Quake 10? Not a damn thing, other than it's too old for me to molest anymore.
On Your Way Their?
RPG should shank me.
why shut out the fans of later Quakes completely?
Because they do not bow before my mighty fist of vengeance and retribution. Also, it isn't the birthday of the other games. At a birthday party, you're celebrating that one's birthday, and not the birthdays of other people who aren't actually having a birthday that day.
the Q2 and Q3 Arena fetishist are doing remakes of Quake for those engines should their projects be included?
Of course, this is an academic excercise as the arrangements for this event are not in our lowly mapperite hands.
it would be cool to have a section on the QExpo site showcasing Quake remakes and content in other games actually. Maybe just an article or a sidebar or something, but it'd be an interesting read.
I Am Afraid
The people from ID Software will reply complete and utter crap like "Quake 3 has the best multiplayer we've ever made" and "Quake 4 is Quake singleplayer at it's finest". They have been known to spit out comments like that in the past.
Have you guys noticed how Quake is now supposedly a sidestory to Quake 2? If you read up on ET: Quake Wars (Quake 2 universe), its mentioned that some missions involve humans trying to steal "slipgate technology" that would be later used in other Quake games story-wise. Makes me sad.
Bar Some Accident Involving Combusting Gophers...
...QExpo will be hosted once again at Quakedev.com which is notably an engine site, and is ran by Echon who is primarily from what I gather a Q2 guy. It already has a QExpo forum there, however I do not know if we can setup a QExpo 06 specific section, and if we can enable unregistered posting... I'll ask Echon about that by the end of the weekend (Im moving and heading out of town for a day this weekend on family matters).
I do prefer that it be Q1 only, however, I dont outright object to the others... but if they are involved it will be made well known that this exposition is focusing on the first Quake, as it is centered, literally, around its registered release date.
Thank you for all of the question suggestions, I had been remarkably low in question ideas from others, and these should help move things along. The subject who has agreed to be interviewed prefers a conversational method, so it will most likely not be a linear question-answer format.
I had toyed with, and love, the idea of recognizing wonderous greats of Quake's past. However I would think myself (all the more) arrogant if I dared to attempt to assemble such a list of things in Quake... and would love to see suggested lists from members of the community, which would basically create a simple consensus on the greats in Quake (for me I immediately think of Zerstorer, Beyond Belief, TeamFortress, Blahbalicious, Ranger Gone Bad 2, Dank and Scud... these are things that created unique memories for me). So please, scavenge the fields of your nostalgic moods and either email me (my nick at yahoo) with QExpo in the subject line or post them in this thread.
A tournament would be a nice way to get people involved, though it still has a bit of the divisive aspect of "NQ or QW?" (to which I say, DP cause it connects to both, but I know there is most definitely not a consensus on engines). Another thing is the celebration of Quake clans, past, present... and we could even have temporary ones for good fun wars (casual matches between temporary clans). I think the Inside3d/qc crew would most likely get raped by the other groups, but I think it would be fun, and it would bring about an important aspect to the event, at least for me: People playing Quake together like they used to.
I would LOVE to bump into someone I know from func or i3d on a server... But the only people I ever see on servers are the quakeone.com crew. Speaking of the playing community, Sassa and Baker have been enthusiastic about QExpo and promised to have quakeworld.nu and quakeone.com help rally support and interest, which is important as I have disappointingly found that if I mention QExpo on a random server... ...no one has heard of it. And rarely have they heard of i3d or func.
Im sure I have plenty more to say, but I just noticed this thread had exploded just today, and so I tried to catch up with it all at once.
One last note: if you feel that you wont have content ready for QExpo, but do have something to show, when the time comes, please do still sign up for a booth. It can be used to generate interest in what youre working on with a short summary and teaser shots. And in fact... if you have more than 2 things, I would suggest considering releasing one of them after QExpo. I dont want people to blow their load on one day or over 11 days. I want to use this as a point to broaden awareness of the various scenes within Quake, and what we are all doing and what we have in common. More importantly I would like to see this generate a stronger interest in creating content for Quake - and trying it out. I would love to see the players dropping by here and i3d for new maps and mods - I would love to see them ask questions about how one works WC/Radiant, or how to compile a mod... QExpo to me is much more than a birthday bash, it is more like a baby shower - a celebration of what is to come, and thus it can also be used as the conception, illustrate the fertile ground still available to work with.
I am looking forward to everything that is to come, during QExpo, and afterwards. Especially content like than's tutorials. Also... this is Quake as a whole, if you have anything related, such as humorous or cool Quake art, be sure to submit it. I miss Dank and Scud.
Yay For Qexpo
About tournament: FTEQW can serve both QW and NQ clients, so this should be a good choice for providing a server.
I am very enthusiastic too and I will do my best to advertise QExpo at Quaddicted, but since I haven't got a real community there (at least I don't really know who comes and goes) it is a bit harder.
If There's A Qw Tournament
Use qw. That is, mvdsv server and ktpro mod. Fuh and ezquake clients.
Nobody from the qw community plays with anything else, this has been the standard for over 3 years.
It's a very high-skilled and pretty friendly community, they do really awesome stuff, there are a hundred spectators in big games etc. (No money involved!) Some of the players have played other games, but they have come back to qw because it is the pinnacle of fps:es. And 4on4 is the peak of qw.
I know some of you are allergic to this talk, but with years-trained high skills and enthusiasm, you want an even playing field that everyone knows and can agree on. An agreed way to settle who's best. It's stabilized, and it's hard to change it, and it also works pretty well. New maps would be good, but new clients / servers with different feel and physics, please no.
This is a bad analogy, but it's like if they wanted to have the football world cup in greenland and thought "hey, let's play with an ice cube". Most normal football players would be disgusted, and one can understand why. Of course the icecube players would love it, but the tournament wasn't supposed to be for just them. They could have two separate tournaments though and even cross-participate, and that could be cool.
4on4 is the peak of qw.
Bambuz is not an authority :D
1on1, 2on2, 4on4 -- they all have a dedicated player base and �ber fans!
Also, don't expect all qw players to be open to playing custom content... their goal is competition and honing of skills; in the NQ-DM/SP community the focus seems to be geared more towards creation of content, for sharing and enjoyment.
So, everyone, be open minded! Et cetera (hard 'c').
I Think The Word Tournament
is being carried with more weight to some.
I speak of such for QExpo specifically only for the dimension of getting more people to play Quake. Not to show whos the best bunnyhopper (I dont do it) and can time the quad the most accurately (once again, I dont even try), but to play Quake amongst the community as a whole. The way games seem to be currently played... Im never going to run into intertia, bambuz, FrikaC, LordHavoc, Sassa, and Baker on the same server, even if they all liked straight dm or such... yet its still Quake. I can see having standards (even if one could argue theyre flawed drastically) for a tournament that is based around showing your abilities and striving to win... But in this case... it is only for the organization of the tournament, at least to me. To catalyze people through that structure into hopping into a different server and simply playing.
4on4 sounds good, 1on1 sounds good, 2on2 sounds good... How about 16on16 ? Or 8on8? Or just have a large ffa dm for the fun of it. Im not interested in someone winning a grand prize (btw, there isnt one) at QExpo for playing Quake, and Id hope thats not why they would be interested in it either. Play Quake because it is fun, and during QExpo, a community event... loosen up some, and play with other people. I personally choose DarkPlaces because its not finicky about alt-tabbing which is handy for me, and it sees no difference as far as Im concerned between QW or NQ... I simply play Quake for the fun of it, and it is fun. Use whatever engine you so desire, but this is not some serious tournament. Just play Quake.
I just try to say that I find the real spiritual multiplayer quake deathmatch to be qw. It's the way it was meant to be. ;)
I mean, it's not some few guys playing in a basement, (which can be fun too), or mappers trying out their maps, but something that's played worldwide and it's often organized and all, it has been played since 1998 or so. And no game since has reproduced it's qualities. And it's fun, when a game is good.
It's like football, it's got an established position and rules and traditions, and it's not just the same if you play with some "weird" rules like 30 players or baskets instead of goals. But I understand, maybe the point of view is narrow and what I'm talking about should really be fit for the QW anniversary, which is later, if ever noticed that much, it kinda crept in with unplayable first versions.
So a "all of quake" anniversary could have some show stuff and some different games, that's fine. Just that the QW community is quite big and it might be cool if there was something for them in their own field, if they would be interested. Like the football 300 year anniversary could have show matches that are played by 4 players in a cage with a small ball. ;)
no more elimination brackets -- creation brackets!
Just have a QW server one day and a NQ server a different day. People can play either or both, and they can use the QW-compatible engine of their choice one day, and the NQ-compatible engine of their choice the other day.
i use a lot of clients depend what i�m going to do ;)
New Dm Map Server
or just custom dm map/mod server? Is that likely to happen? How many servers do you reckon will be devoted to QExpo?
In addition to my main map project, I have been working on a dm3 sp remake recently, and I am nearly done with it. I plan to release two versions - one with standard progs SP and classic multiplayer (with all new areas blocked off) and one which requires the Quoth progs and features Quoth base enemies and an unrestricted layout, more suitable for FFA than the original map. I would really like to try it out if there are plans to run a server in FFA mode. I'm sure any speed dm mapping event that might occur will want to be run with the intention that the maps will be tested afterwards.
A coop server which runs Quoth would also be nice ;)... or is that impossible without using NQ?
Anyway, for DM, I definitely think you should use QW, since that's what everyone is used to using.
Custom Dm Maps
I can ask some of the server runners at quakeone.com to host some custom maps for QExpo, and see if I can get sassa to do the same with QW servers. It would be nice to see people playing something that isnt dm3/6 on ocassion.
Speed maps should definitely be played (in the case of sp, perhaps Spirit or underworldfan would be willing to do minireviews during the Expo? and for dm, just enter them into rotation on a server or three for a few days).
Quake Mdl Modelling Tutorial...
Does anyone have time to make a Quake monster creation guide by QExpo? Even if it were late an arrived after QExpo it would be much appreciated. I would love to see a step by step guide for creating a Quake monster from scratch.
There Use To Be
a very thorough tutorial in five parts on a site called QuakeC Extreme (or Xtreme) on getting an original model in Quake, but that site is no longer up and running. It may be worth it to check through the archive site AquiRe has listed in a post a few days ago.
As for modeling, the Wings3d reference manual (not nearly as dry as it sounds) has excellent explanations for the theory and practice of subdivisional modeling.
Mild QExpo News
Just a small bump to inform that the PHP for QExpo06 has passed the 90% mark in completion, and the website is being worked on. Also the space for QExpo on the domain has been improved, and quakeexpo.com has been registered by Echon. It currently points to the 2005 expo.
The other day than poked me online asking about the filr submission method, after conferring with SantaClaws, who is in charge of the PHP, it will be form based, not ftp.
Good To Hear Some QExpo News!
It seemed a bit quiet lately, so that's why I was asking you about it.
Anyway, have any events been decided yet? What are the likely speed- events?
Mappingwise, I fancy a turtlemap, 2xspeedmap sessions (1dm, 1sp?) and a final speedchainmap session, so there is something to look forward to after QExpo (well, there should be anyway, but something definite I mean ;)
Any news on servers for playing mods and maps etc?
Whenever you have any questions or suggestions than, feel free to drop me a line via chat or an email, I check both consistently.
Its been a bit quiet mostly cause my life has been busy as hell (thankfully classes end a little over a week before QExpo).
Events are up in the air, simply because I feel that is more of a community decision, not as in Ask Everyone, but I would like to have input from you and a few other mappers, as well as a few coders, and see what the general players want also. However despite the multiple invites for suggestions, I feel that I may just have to impose my own ideas for events upon QExpo with some moderation by those who wish to contribute (meaning at this rate things will get ran by Sajt, LordHavoc, FrikaC, SantaClaws and than depending on who I encounter online).
I do definitely want to see speedmapping and speedmodding (it would be interesting to see combinations of this... speedmodding mapper ents to be used in a speedmapping event, or speedmapping levels that modders have to code something around), and I will attempt to get in contact with some QW and NQ server admins regarding running QExpo mods and maps of some sort. However, I have an essay, 2 exams, and an experiment proposal due in the next 40 hours.
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