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Is ready. Its a Quoth map pack with some added features, only playable in its own engines.


Woot, Gotta Play Right Now 
ijed also uploaded

with the description The fixed version of warp spasm, including the maps.

I suggest downloading that (even though I don't know the differences).

If it's ok I will remove the old .7z and remove the "_01" from the filename so there is only one, just need your approval, ijed. :) 
so I take it the glwarp engine is different to aguire's normal engine? 
from the readme:

Create a shortcut to one of exes provided with the commandline;
-quoth -game warp -heapsize 48000
Too Impatient 
...that's me. 
This Is Great 
Just played through the first two maps. Wow.
Is there a way to reduce the soundtrack volume? 
Please do. The pack is extremely badly put together last minute, spoiling the ~16 months I put in.

There are several broken external textures and sprites. The first version I uploaded doesn't have the .bsps in it. The second version does.

Luckily the external textures I left in an seperate pack from the main one, so the second patch (hangs head) will just replace that.

For those that downloaded the broken first pack here are the .bsps:

The fixed version will be ready by tonight. 
I Had The Luck 
...To betatest these maps(too little, to tell the truth, sorry again, Ijed), and gentlemen, you're in for a real treat...

Packfile Changes 
I'll release the exttex pack seperately, so not to have too many fullsize downloads. Its a simple replace of the packfile in the main download, and most won't notice any difference in the original pack anyhow. As well as this the exttex pack is pretty much standalone as well - it'll work for any engine supporting external textures.

I considered pulling the release, but at least its out there.

Unfortunately there's no way to change the volume of the music without modifying the wav's since I used the standard Quoth ambient_generalpurpose code.

The engines are modified versions of AguirRe's that include some beta features, namely pack handling alongside the Quoth mod and a few other features mentioned in the readmes.

the silent:
No worries :)

Hope you like the pack. 
IMO Spirit is right: scrap the re-releases/updates, get it right and update the original post, there should be only one download to not make things confusing.

Congrats for the release. :P
(I also had the opportunity to test this pack, it�s surely on a scale and quality never seen before in Quake)

And as I�m sure some SDA guys are reading this forum, it�ll be great to honor this release with some nice demos ?! 
I'm waiting for the final version before I start to play this pack. The screenshots look very interesting. I will also try to record some first try demos (if I don't get killed too fast :) 
I've followed the installation instructions to the letter, but when I open GLWarp or Winwarp the following error message pops up:

Quake Error
You must have the registered version to use modified games

and when I try Nehwarp I get this error:

Unable to locate component
This application has failed to start because fmod.dll was not fond. Re-installing the application may fix this problem

Anybody else got this problem? 
The link in the newspost is the file to get now.
If you downloaded it earlier (the non _01.7z), you will need to grab the maps if I am correct.

Just wait a night, ijed will upload everything nice tonight. :)

Text_Fish: Are you using the right folder and commandline? the engines must be in /quake, not /quake/folder 
The NehWarp fmod.dll issue is my fault, I forgot that the dll is also required to make the engine work. I've uploaded it here: . Unzip to the same dir as the exes.

The other error I don't know, it appears as if you don't have the registered Quake (pak1). 
Minor Clarification 
The above dll is of course only necessary if you don't have full Nehahra installed:
It does sound like exactly the error you'd get if the exes weren't in the base quake directory, as they'd be unable to find that text document that tell the engine quake is registered.

I've played some of the pack today, although I've had to ration it to get some revision done. It's been top notch work so far! There are a scary number of spawn about on hard though... 
Oh! I See Now. 
I was being a twit. I placed the shortcuts in /quake but left the original .exe's in /warp. Dur. :)

Cheers for the help!

SDA is not supporting Quoth based maps. 
A fully fixed and final version is now up. Same link as in the first post: warpspasm.7z

If you downloaded any version before, there were some skins missing. Get this archive:

I'm gonna play the third map now, really enjoyed it so far (saving often, heh)! 
Cheers Spirit 
And watch out for the Agony Maze. 
bile plant is an instant classic. 
A Plant That Poops! 
I was putting Quake on hold until I got caught up on some important things, but this I have to see. :) 
Sealed City 
is another instant classic.

this is amazing stuff, you can see the 16 mths of effort. Lovely work. 
Just Started Playing 
shame it won't work in fitzquake. I hate the lighting in regular gl engines (of all maps, not just this) and winquake looks and runs very poorly.

I did play through the first map though. Seems like good stuff so far, and the music is quite spooky. Liking it :)

By the way, the bind for the plasma gun is impulse 250, in case anyone else is having the same problem I was :) 
seriously, level one is no indication of what is to come. just keep playing. 
it seems like there's a bug in these gl engines... if the video resolution you choose is not 4:3 ratio, it still sets the vertical fov as if it was ... the result is that everyone looks short and fat when i play at 1680x1050.

I don't have glquake installed at the moment, but it seems like this was not a bug in the original glquake. But I could be wrong... 
ye than first level for me is a litle borring becouse gameplay is very slowed becouse of to much shambers in my opinion... but after that... are level for us not forget good quality and a size of maps real huge 
There's no explicit support for it in my engines, AFAIK there never was any such support. In GLQuake 0.97, it looks the same and you can't even change fov at all ...

I'd suggest using std 4:3 resolution. 
It Just Gets Better And Better 
3 instant classics now, nightmare tangent is also fantastic. 
Phew, What A Battle 
bit of a mixed bag for me. the maps are pretty nice for the most part, but 500+ monsters are just far too many to be enjoyable - it became boring, sometimes even annoying after a while (it's ok for one map, not for an entire episode). and it was very, i mean VERY hard on skill 2 - i was constantly low on health and sometimes even ran out of ammo. each map took me about an hour, maybe more, and LOTS of quickloading. switched to skill 1 after three maps and it became much better.

warpa could have been more detailed, still ok.
warpb conveyed a certain atmosphere i can't put my finger on. low lightlevel, fog, gritty textures and vast repetitive environment, the industrial juggernaut i would never want to end up in. by repetitive i mean there weren't many clearly distinct areas, or rather areas that really stood out - at least i had the impression. some bits were pretty bland.
warpc was cool (knave trims are a bitch to align properly). so were warpd and warpe, which had a very cool theme (also an insane amount of secrets, but i hardly found any).
the shortcut teleporters in all of the maps were very handy.

the sleeping player gibbing looked buggy: one could see the telefrag zombie.
what's up with the items' bounding boxes? they are like in qw or something - it's harder to pick them up, requires the player to really touch their center/origin.

quoth: being killed by polyp gibs prints a "fell to this death" message. i still don't like the plasmagun sound - and why did it emit a red light when hitting a wall? 
Item Pickups Etc 
I think it's because ijed rotates the boxes slightly to make it look more realistic, I've seen that before in other maps. It's a nice touch, but annoying.

The polyp gib obituary seems like a QC bug. The red light from PG is just how NehQuake displays that type of effect.

As for boring/hard/easy gameplay, check out the extra coop modes ... 
Rotated Items 
i can't tell for sure, but there might be more to it. at least i've never experienced such a behavior with rotated items before. 
Rotated Bounding Boxes 
I noticed the items that were rotated were much harder to pick up. I think the problem is that the bounding boxes are the same as normal, but that ammo models are rotated about one corner rather than the centre. Quake bounded boxes don't change at all with the entity's rotation, so the boxes end up quite a long way out of place. From one direction the items are hard to pick up, from the other you pick them up before you appear to touch them. Trying to work out what's going on is made harder by the fact than ammo has the FL_ITEM flag, which makes the bounding box larger for players.

This same bug occurs in quake as well, it's just that lots of the ammo in these maps is rotated, so it's more noticable. I could probably write a new setsize function that would set a corrected bounding box. It would take into account the rotation of the entity and shift the position of the box accordingly(assuming of course that the given size is correct for a rotation of 0 degrees). The bounding boxes would still be parallel to the x and y axes, that's the only possibility in quake. But the boxes could be scaled to be a square that would exactly contain the hypothetical rotated bbox. Would this be a good fix? 
Warpspasm is the longest map pack I have ever played. With each level taking about an hour to complete (disregarding the first and the last), along with around 550 monsters, and VERY hard on skill 2, this pack is a blast. Highly recommended. Play it now! 
Looking Forward To This... 
...can someone remind me what the final, fixed, release download is, cheers. 
the one linked in the news post. 
Stubgaard / Everyone 
SDA is not supporting Quoth based maps.

I thought recording just for fun, personnaly I like watching runs on large maps, it�s like a movie :) 
There's no explicit support for it in my engines, AFAIK there never was any such support. In GLQuake 0.97, it looks the same and you can't even change fov at all ...

I'd suggest using std 4:3 resolution.

Yeah, I've been doing that. Just wish I could play in fullscreen on my wide-aspect LCD.

It's hard to remember now, but I thought that the code to correctly calculate vertical FOV was already in the source when I started making fitzquake. On the other hand, I did do some work on that part of the code, so maybe it never really worked before I touched it.

And, I recall the fixed FOV in glquake being not a missing feature, but an existing feature locked out by an id software programmer (not carmack) who thought high FOV was cheating and decided to disable it when working on the glquake port. 
Rotated Items 
A quakec patch to calculate better boxes would be worthwhile for a pack like this where all the items are rotated.

For mappers in general working with unpatched quakec, I would suggest never rotating an item box more than about 10-15 degrees.

Note that all items in quake have their bboxes expanded in code (by 16 units i think) to make them easier to touch, including items on shelves. This compensates for any small rotation because you still can't get too close before picking it up. But if it's been rotated like 135 degrees, the 16 units won't be enough obviously. 
I'd like to see a basic progs fix, for stuff like the fish couting twice (you'll notice there aren't any in Warp)and ammo bbox box.

Then we, as a community, agree that it's the basic version that everyone should use. I gauruntee there's lots more I don't know about that could be cleaner and more efficient. I'm not sure why this doesn't already exist, to be honest, it's a logical progression when the community of ten year old game keeps playing it.

Most mods have implemented the fixes that sneaked through the playtesting phase, but there's no basic 'use this' id1 progs.

I'm not a coder. 
Widescreen Works Here... 
on my Dell 24' with run command line:
...\glwarp.exe\ -quoth -game warp -heapsize 48000 -width 1920 -bpp 32 
No Problem... 
with FOV either! (autoexec.cfg) 
Command line above should read:
...\glwarp.exe -quoth -game warp -heapsize 48000 -width 1920 -bpp 32 
chase_active 1 fov 110

appended to that - I put in a bind to 1 for autoswitch to the sword chase_active as an experiment, but it couldn't work with impuse 10 / 12 and I play with mousewheel for weapon switch.

It works good - first person close combat is shit. 
A Small Demo 
I want to see some demos on these lovely maps!

So I went ahead and recorded this as a starter; an easy run through warpe in 49 seconds. There "may" be more shortcuts than the single one I found... 
Rotated Items 
ok, just tested it again and you are right.
i never experienced this before because i was always using only small angles. everthing <90 seems to work fine.

forgot to mention btw: i liked the music ;) 
And Thus It Begins... 
Map the first (the snowy one).

Skill 2, GLWarp.exe, Quoth on, 85/87, 4/5, two deaths (one at first Smabler ambush as I was saving MHs and at 20-ish health when Smables appeared, one at end cos I was running around doing....something).

Cool map! I like it. Like the style, unusual feel. Some inside bits were quite plain. But overall the vibe was good. I like the fog and lava ball effects at the end, proper dramatic. Good secrets too. I really like the gameplay - the combination of easy Grunts, nice snipery Rocket Grunts, and mental Shamble ambushes was....quite refreshing really. It worked well and was well balanced too.

Music was okay, fitted well. The monster movement does me head in a bit although it's kinda cool on the Smablers. 
Nice demo, I also want to see clever runs on these unusual maps. Check out Sielwolf's demo3; maybe it can offer some hints on warpe. 
So <90 works well? I'll remember that.

Shambler: glad you like the maps - its a bit fanboy but I was reading the TEAMshambler archive repeatedly when putting these together. Also, Harsh Angled Edge and Final Drop are bookend maps, with the start map and Murder Mandala being secondary bookends (?). The real expansion is warpb-d.

Neg!ke: Something you liked! Heh, it's ok - I've never been a fan of speedmaps tbh, although the chain speedmaps are amongst my favourites. Like I said in another post, some people prefer hamburger to steak.

Mandel: Not bad, but do check out Sielwolf's demo3. You missed plasma jumping as well - its semi-pointless unless you have the quad, but Sielwolf's rocketpush to the crunch secret solves that. Also, these maps did have alot of clip brushes to break speedrunning, but they're all gone now. I guess warpd can be completed in less than a minute thanks to the bars helping the player to the exit via rocketjump.

Nice to hear comments, thanks. 
The Code 
Here's a chunk of code that corrects the bounding boxes. It's not as optimal as it could be, lots of ugly if statements, but since it's not called often it doesn't really matter.

void setsizerotated (entity targ, vector b_min, vector b_max)

local vector y_ang, rotmin, rotmax, pt;

//only consider rotation in y axis
y_ang_y = targ.angles_y;
//get the unit vectors in local axes

//correct for opposite orientation
v_right = v_right * -1;

//set initial min/max points to transformed bottom right coord
rotmin = rotmax = v_forward * b_min_x + v_right * b_min_y;

//point 2
pt = v_forward * b_min_x + v_right * b_max_y;
//compare to current min/max componentwise
if(pt_x < rotmin_x)
rotmin_x = pt_x;
if(pt_y < rotmin_y)
rotmin_y = pt_y;

if(pt_x > rotmax_x)
rotmax_x = pt_x;
if(pt_y > rotmax_y)
rotmax_y = pt_y;

//point 3
pt = v_forward * b_max_x + v_right * b_max_y;
//compare to current min/max componentwise
if(pt_x < rotmin_x)
rotmin_x = pt_x;
if(pt_y < rotmin_y)
rotmin_y = pt_y;

if(pt_x > rotmax_x)
rotmax_x = pt_x;
if(pt_y > rotmax_y)
rotmax_y = pt_y;

//point 4
pt = v_forward * b_max_x + v_right * b_min_y;
//compare to current min/max componentwise
if(pt_x < rotmin_x)
rotmin_x = pt_x;
if(pt_y < rotmin_y)
rotmin_y = pt_y;

if(pt_x > rotmax_x)
rotmax_x = pt_x;
if(pt_y > rotmax_y)
rotmax_y = pt_y;

//z unchanged, assuming rotation in y only
rotmin_z = b_min_z;
rotmax_z = b_max_z;

setsize (targ, rotmin, rotmax);


To use it, simply replace the call to setsize in the item's spawn function to call setsizerotated instead, the function takes the same parameters. Note that this function should not be used everywhere! Monsters for instance already have a bounding box large enough to accommodate their rotation, so you'll end up with monsters facing odd angles having larger bounding boxes if you use this. Similarly for weapons, although it's less important, it's not worth making a change for the worse. Just change it on ammo/health packs.

On a unified progs with fixes: I've thought about this before, but I don't know that it would work. There's a line to be drawn between what's a bug-fix and what's a feature, and it's not easy to do. If I wanted a bug-fixed source I'd start with aguirRe's source, which has some obvious ones like the fish count, and also some more subtle crashes/problems. But whether this rotation code counts as a bugfix is debatable to me, certainly none of the original quake maps rotate the items, so allowing rotation of items is kinda like a new feature.

We should probably start a different thread for discussion of this, or at least take it to mapping help. Stop derailing this thread, Preach! 
And I watched demo1 and demo2 but not demo3 :) 
i didn't say i hated all the rest. it's just that the map sizes and monster counts were suboptimal for my attention span. 
i'm not saying it doesn't allow a widescreen resolution. I'm saying that when the resolution is widescreen, the vertical fov is not set correctly, resulting in everything looking wider and shorter than it should. Or, if you play with a tall skinny window (which i did as a test, ) everything looks tall and skinny. 
On a unified progs with fixes: I've thought about this before, but I don't know that it would work.

There is already something like this, it's called the "Ultimate Regular Quake Patch" and nobody uses it. :) 
The 4 shamblers in tight space after gold key was a bit wtf, otherwise up till now (2nd level) im fucking loving it! 
I had a 'quick' god run through to check the whole and am now working my way through 'properly'. I'm very impressed with the number of options available to the player at start. This and the emphasis on breaking as many limits as possible for most engines ;)means the need for a specific .exe file. Despite the fact I don't like the look and/or feel of any of them I believe it to be a fair trade off.

The first level was bland but the second is, as nitin said, an instant classic. I despise quoth polyps but the're so appropriate in this level! I'm quickly learning to conserve my cells and use the lance on them ASAP. Structurally complex, architecturally appropriate, chock full 'o' gibs, yay! My only beef thus far is that the mix of Rubicon and Oblivion textures is quite jarring in places.

I think you were beating yourself up too much about the music during development ijed. I like what you chose and how you've processed it. Your choice of music for level preceding 'warpe' means that my track doesn't stand out like dog's balls...well done! 
Fragile little things . . . as I say in the readme the Nehahra version is preferred since its got a few more graphical effects, although the red light from the blue plasma burst is an anomaly I never got round to changing.

Dis - I don't remember if you heard the old music or not. Whats there now is much better fitting, also solves the problem of protubent canine testes. 
Holly shit! This was great! I have recorded a demo on skill 1. I was very carefull after the experience of warpa. Unfortunately I died at the first gug :(
The architecture, lightning and atmosphere were sooo good in this map! Gameplay was great also. I kinda like the "impulse 250" weapon but I still have my problems with the quoth monsters. 
7 MB DZip 
I'd suggest not to use dzip for any demos from these big maps, it can't handle the format or edict amount. At the very best it'll just default to std zip (i.e. no dzip compression) or more likely, it'll crash or make the dz corrupt.

Use 7-zip, rar or std zip utility instead. 
nice demo! I can't believe how you managed to play that far in one go. You were extremely low in the beginning though - 3 health ...

As for the gug fight, it might be easier to leave the zombies in to create a potential diversion for him. Although I've modified the gug code slightly so he doesn't get totally stuck on zombies anymore. 
now where do I get that quoth thing? 
Warpb - Some More Comments 
this map is huuge! It could easily be divided into a 3 level episode, SK and GK doors being the cut points.

great health and ammo balance (on skill 1). can't even imagine how much work and testing it needed.

over 400 monsters and no horde combat - impressive.

monsters spawn after the player passes the area and chase from behind - great!

great replay value

teleporters were very nice, indeed

the scale of the architecture is just right and it feels to be a real world

the green fog - great choice

fighting in this map was very satisfying (the fights after GK door were very nice)

final area - great look and great fight also. Mixing gaunts and fiends in one area without cover is evil :) 
Glad You Liked 
I got the demo last night but couldn't watch yet, and can't watch now because the link seems to be down, though I do remember you found some b0rky brushwork near the start.

The cut point thing is a possibility but try the map in coop and you'll see why it loops through itself so much - I tried to make it easy to navigate back to a place when you'd already been there through teleporters or changing geometry (doors / func_walls).

I'll watch the demo tonight - cheers. 
I'm Still Not Finished With This Pack... 
Currently just finished Sealed City. These monster counts are INSANE!$. The feel of the maps are very much like the large custom Doom 2 like Polygon Base and so on. The finale of Sealed City was also very doom-like and cool.

I have to admit that maps of this size (400-500 monsters) are too big for my taste. I think each map could have been split into two-three maps (except the snowy one of course.) I think part of it is a pacing issue, and part of it is an issue of the amount of physical space players have to traverse and remember. An intermission screen not only functions to help establish the tempo of the episode and give a sense of progress, but it also is a point where players can flush their mental-map-bulding process and start anew. It's easier to remember the layout of 5 small shopping malls than one huge shopping mall. 
I wanted to add that I think the Sealed City's various sections that had pop-up text (agony maze, etc.) did help reduce the problem I mentioned above. 
Version 1.33? 
Take a look at the bottom of the console in glwarp.exe or winwarp.exe. It clearly says 1.33, but the latest enhanced engine was 1.32. Maybe 1.33 was only for warp compatibility, or is aguiRe hiding a new version of his engine from us? ! 
The Warp Exes 
are just the current beta versions that'll end up in the next release, whenever that'll be.

Ijed couldn't use the previous public release as it doesn't have the -quoth option, which is pretty essential for this pack. There's also an important fix for saving/loading games in coop.

For more details, check out the included readme files. 
Map The Second. 
Okay, I got to about 350 / 522 monsters (on Skill 2) without dying, then annoyingly died with a random surprise spawn hit when I was approximately 0.00001 seconds and 2 inches from a MegaHealth. I reloaded and played a bit past that, but the "trapped in a corridor with 3 Shamblers, no possible escape, having expended all nails, cells and armour on the previous multiple Fiend ambush" impossiblity made me give up for the time being. 2 hours of continuous hard Quake is enough for now....I must be getting old.

If anyone wants a very boring 9 meg (zipped) 2 hour demo until there, let me know ;S. 
Two Hours!? 
on one map? Man, that map must be huge. I must admit I haven't played much of the pack yet as I'm a bit behind with Quake playing due to my hands being a bit fucked, but I did start the level (and got spawned straight away). There are only a couple of Quake maps that have taken me over an hour to finish, and they are both fucking huge. Looking forward to getting into this map.

I still play Quake on normal, btw - the hard corridor looked a bit too scary. 
If you feel the combat is too easy/hard/boring and you don't want to change skill level for whatever reason, check out the coop possibilities.

There are far more skill selections than usual; they're there to make the pak more accessible for everyone and to increase replayability. 
This is less of a map and more of an entire game. I dread to think of there being more of them in the pack.

Two hours and I didn't complete it. Probably 3 if I had done. At least 10 minutes of that was getting the Bounce secret. Not sure why that was so hard.

I was taking a hell of a lot of care to try to get through it though. And spending ages trying to find secrets (was on 8 / 16 I think).

BTW, is it just me who finds Quoth's "silent" monster behaviour a little....twitchy? Or rather it makes me a little twitchy. I presume this is deliberate, getting rid of some of their usual noises? 
2 more:)

I have to say on normal, I had an absolute blast despite dying a fair bit. 
I will try the "no quoth monsters" mode for sure ;)
I have also played red777 again to prepare myself for the maps of this pack. 
2 Hours . . . 
That's alot - it takes me just under an hour, but I know it like the back of my hand.

The spawning creatures I tried not to make cheap, they sometimes spawn just around the corner, but there's a few times when I'll bring in a couple of Fiends from behind in order to force the player into the next area, generally so they can have grenades / lightning / whatever thrown at them.

The GK corridor was originally a Gug at the end, but his fire pattern meant that he basicly couldn't hit the player.

The bounce secret is overly difficult because there's a Trinity not too far away, giving the potential for instagib nails (x7 damage) but only if you're very quick indeed. I probably should have made it a bit simpler so you'd actually get a chance to kill stuff with that.

The Quoth creatures aren't so silent, instead thier sounds are a bit less distinguishable, especially with the music built into the levels - though they're all excellent, my favourite being the Gaunt. (Gauntdrop!)

Also Shambler, you're on normal skill - on hard there's four Shamblers. 
one of the many things I have liked so far is that the spawning creatures dont feel cheap but more as if they've always been there, lukring around and have finally found you.

I think I'm on the last map now, but I wuld pu this in my top 10, great work ijed. 
Silent Quoth 
I don't recall having changed std Quoth sound behaviour. There's a new sound (or sounds) for the grunt, but I think he's mostly used in warpa. 
Metslime Re: Post #26 
I just got a new widescreen monitor running it at -width 1400 -height 1050 -bpp 32 and there's no problem, but when I went for higher rez it just tells me its not supported.

Thats in the Nehahra engine variant. 
Monster Skins 
If anyone thinks that the external monster skins are too dark (probably because you're used to the idgamma effect) or is otherwise interested, I can describe a pretty simple way to change that using the free XnView. 
That sounds like a std 4:3 resolution, not 16:9 which is AFAIK the widescreen proportions. If you use -height 788 instead, you'll see the "fat guy" effect metl mentioned. 
In order:

I found the spawning monsters fine.

I have no idea where the Trinity is. What is the authorised way to get the Bounce secret? I used plasma off the edge of the beam, although it looked as if it should be a simple slope jump ^_*

Errrr. Creature noises. I meant the Quake ones now seem to be silent or a lot quieter when they come from the distanct of indeed spawn.

There were 4 Shamblers, I miscounted before. I know what damn skill I'm on.

I have a question for you:

Almost every player will appear in that corridor having run out of armour (collected the YA ages ago and run it out particularly around the GK area), and almost certainly run out of nails / plasma on the multiple Enforcer / multiple Fiend sections just before. How exactly do you expect them to defeat 4 Shamblers with no armour, maybe 50 spare health and 50 spare nails, effectively just with the double shotty?? The number of times you will get hit with lightning make it physically impossible, so I'd be interested to know.

BTW, this section, and the ending (which I god-moded through, I believe the ending is possible [unlike the Shambler situation in the player condition described] - however due to the combination of fiend, slime, and the ludicrous amount of damage the lighting does, it boils down purely to random chance as to how much you get hit / what the monsters do, rather than player control [again, most powerful ammo will have been used on Gugs], I'm not giving it the XXX number of goes required for that chance to crop up....I did enough of that speedrunning years ago), were the only pointlessly hard bits. The rest was difficult, but entirely feasible (see my first post on it) and pretty balanced. 
The plasma jump is the way to do it.

The trinity is a secret ;)

Didn't modify sounds from Quake / Quoth.


The idea of the corridor sections is that the player can backtrack if they're low on whatever, which is why all the stuff opens up to allow more movement - eg. the first open area links to the GK platform after you take the long way round, as well as a few teleporters opening up.

Granted its not perfect and the levels are big just to go wanderign for a box of ammo, but the pace is set up for a midpoint finale battle. Th Shamblers aren't too hard to take down with DBS - in warpa the player has to take down two, in warpb its four, but only as the end of a large setpiece / sectional battle where they've most likely picked up cells / grenades (admittidly useless vs. Shamblers) from the Enforcers / Defenders beforehand.

As well as this there's plenty of room to retreat - I experimented with closing the player in the corridor or even just the room behind locking up to counter this, but its wasn't necessary (until the end at least) - the battle is tough enough.

Also, I'd hope that the player realises the difficulty of each combat is increasing as the doors open (dogs / enforcers / fiends / shamblers) and use thier ammo accordingly - spamming Enforcers with plasma is fairly wasteful, especially since it'll usually gib them and lose you the ammo pcikup afterwards.

I took this into account for difficulty - there's more plasma ammo on normal and even more on easy. On hard there used to be alot less - backpacks only, near enough.

The final battle is a final battle. The exit opens after you kill the Fiends, so if you're quick enough and don't mind not getting 100% kills you can escape leaving the three Gaunts behind - but thats the cowards way out.

Hard is hard for experienced players, for normal players its more like an extra level of difficulty up (NM is practically the same, just faster attacks AFAIK). This was the reason to include the -/+ Quoth coop options in the start map.

I always tested in NM, then downgraded difficulty to allow for my knowledge of structure, then further for playtesting comments, then further for each difficulty level. 
I didn't try skill 2 so I don't know if there is maybe more ammo and armour but on skill 1 all the fights are pretty manageable because the supplies are sufficient. Just finished the map on skill 1 again in 40 minutes. The bounce secret has to be reached with the help of slope jumping I think. 
Ijed, You Got A Good Point Here... 
...As stated before, I had the opportunity of betatesting the maps, and played through again just a couple of days ago(as usual, no time to write comments)and, while pretty tough, I found that the thing that really saves your precious ring from being violently raped is to never, ever gib any enforcer and pick up all the cells you can, also keep an eye on armour and health supplies and go for them only if you really need them.

I survived the shamblers going back and collecting ammo and armour I had left behind (still a tough call, anyway).

Played on hard and had an average hour of play time to beat the longest maps.

I'll go back to the maps on NM during the weekend.

Secrets are a real bitch, though, Ijed, how about preparing a walkthrough of all secrets for those lazy dumb slobs like me, you may post it as a txt or pdf so only those interested can download it.

I think lots of people would appreciate, what do you say?

Great stuff. What next? 
Walkthrough Of Secrets? 
Nah, a 100% demopack would be much better :) 
...You just like to see people sweat!!!

; P 
Warpa Demo 
100% NM - its definately not the fastest it can be done (I'm no speedrunner) and I reckon demos like this for the big three would drive the makers insane.

Only watch if you want to know all the secrets and loopholes. 
Except For One Small Thing... 
As well as this there's plenty of room to retreat - I experimented with closing the player in the corridor or even just the room behind locking up to counter this, but its wasn't necessary (until the end at least) - the battle is tough enough.

Not true - on skill 2 the corridor is locked behind the player when the 4 Shamblers appear.

If it stayed open obviously it would be an entirely different matter.

Thus the question remains.

(Also, obviously, if you reload from anywhere around the Gold Key itself, you're going to manage supplies for the second attempt, that goes without saying. I'm interested in how it's possible on the first attempt, with the supplies the player is likely to have) 
(until the end at least)

I was talking about the earlier battles, which are fairly standard - you open each door and tougher monsters come out each time. When you open the final door the difficulty spikes because you're locked in and its four Shamblers (with zombie chucking gibs through the bars behind).

It's a test of how well the player has managed thier resources in the earlier door battles.

It can make the problem of forcing the player to backtrack when there's nothing to ambush them (assuming they've cleared previous areas).

Or else just running out of ammo and trying to sword Shamblers. But if you're completely fucked by that time and have drained the level of ammo you can still instigate infighting between the Enforcers and Defenders (not too difficult) and have enough plasma to waste the Shamblers. 
this thing sounds insane, can't wait to try it! 
This is the wtfness i mentioned "after the gold key" meaning after gold door. I cheated some ammo on that, all i had was a quicksave from 1 min ago and a save from 1 hour ago.
Otherwise final fight was easy enough having taken out the gaunts with the quad and a few nails
Good job ijed, its been a while since ive enjoyed a q1sp so much. (kells bell tower map :P) 
Widescreen Support With Proper Aspect 
I haven't played this (yet) and thus not tried the engine in question but as someone who primarily uses a laptop with 16:10 screen I have to chime in and say that it's rather important to support custom aspects these days because I'd hate to have to play with everything squashed or a re-scaled blurry image.

When it comes to the maps I'll probably try them when I have some time but the reports of the scale/play time per map frightens me a little bit when maps like moonlight and marcher are close to what I can cope with in terms of q1 sp maps in one chunk. 
I found that everything not just the skins to be darker than usual. maybe there was a palette change?

I just upped the gamma 0.2 points and it looked fine. 
Warp B Demo 
100% secrets and 520/522 kills, 48 minutes.

There are a lot of comments about the maps being too large or too difficult; IMO the size is a matter of taste; I for one like to get lost in a huge map and explore, the immersion is much higher than in smaller maps.

And I think Ijed did an outstanding job balancing the gameplay, if you want to finish on the harder skills you have to find the secrets/plan the use of powerups etc., as it should be, and it increases the replayability. 
...and Nice Demo On Warpa Ijed 
So there is no solution.

I would hate to think what happens if you quicksave before the Shambler door in the almost certain position of having burnt up ammo on previous encounters.

The balance otherwise is fine, as I said. 
This Doesn't Work In Fitzquake? 
hm :( 
The 100th Is Mine! 
...Not that I have anything relevant to say, except that I love the 100th post position!

And Ijed, nice work, man Helpful demo!

Sielwolf, thanks, right now I'm at work, nut tonight I'm dowloading and have a look at your demo to sort out the secrets (I found 75%).

So, in the end I hda something to say...

On to the 200th... 
Congrats On 100+ 
posts on your map episode, Ijed. That is the measure of success in the world of Quake SP mapping :) 
Cheers. Mind you, I reckon I counted for a fair few of them.

Sielwolf - I'll watch your demo in about an hour . . . if it's anything like the old city6 (very old warpc beta) demo it should look pretty amazing.

I tried a run through warpb but melted myself trying to get the Wasted Life secret.

I can see that one and the Ballache secret in warpe causing problems for 100% demos. 
Back to map the second.

It is a good map. The style and effects are good. I like the use of sprites. Archicture is generally good, occasionally great. Some areas were relatively bland and it could have done with more detailing. The pipe machinery and organic bits were really cool, as were the sound effects for them - very effective. The sound is good overall, it fits very well.

Gameplay was mostly good apart from the two "trick" sections mentioned above. The new Enforcers were interesting, and good to face once one learnt they were utterly deadly close up. Having room to move around helped. Sometime the slime was a bit annoying, a constant nagging. Secrets seemed good but generally pretty hard - Vondurian in fact. There were lots of details that could have been secrets but weren't, which made it sometimes tedious to find them. The jumping ones were all cool.

I think, odd exceptions aside, although the maps are - let's be honest - pretty continually hard, the difficulty and balance is pretty good.

HOWEVER, I do agree with people about the size issue. I don't think the maps gain any overall benefit from being so large and monster filled - the benefit of an impressive level of immersion by playing something so vast is outweighed by the maps just being a lot more gruelling than actually fun. Sometimes it feels like hard work keeping going and keeping track of it all. Like Metl says, holding it all in your mind - and fighting "high level" Quake for 3-4 times a normal large map.

Having said that, I can see they'd appeal to a particular taste. There must be some people out there who really wanted something very big, tough, and time-consuming, and this is great for them. Myself, I've tended to enjoy Quake in shorter, funner bursts. So I don't think I will be trying to play the rest of the maps in one go (which will reduce the immersion admittedly, but enhance my sanity). 
Bloody Hell 
I just made it through warpb on normal. It was one hell of a slog. Whilst I didn't find it particularly difficult, I did die once, and would have died a couple more if I hadn't noclipped out of slime after falling in (which I don't normally do, just this map was so huge I just wanted to get through it).

All I can say so far is that the maps have an incredibly hostile atmosphere - more so than any other maps I can think of - maybe some of zerstorer, but that's all that compares. The ambience (sounds make up a lot of this), scale of the architecture, number of enemies, relentless ambushes and MASSIVE size of the maps makes you feel like there really is no end...

...and then there is.

Sealed City here I come!

btw, I like the map names and also the way you named the secrets - it all fits with the map ambience very nicely. Also, when I was killing the second of the two beasts it appeared a bit earlier than I expected it to - quite a long time before I managed to reach the items on the other side of the room. That was great :)

I did find the map a bit too large for my taste to be honest, but it was still fucking great. I'm just worried that warpc and in particular, warpd (I already checked out the monster counts) are going to be a bit too much for me. I'd love to try it in coop mode with three others though :) 
Warp C Demo 
again 100% secrets, 539/543 kills, 62 minutes. Could have been faster, but not much; this is the hardest map in the pack IMO, it�s easy to run out of ammo and then there�s the final battle...

Also included is a short demo how to get the RL right at the start which should make the map alot easier. 
Polyps And Low Damage 
While playing warpb, I noticed that polyps will only do damage to armour while you have it, because of the very low damage they inflict per attack. Is this what's intended for them, that they strip away your armour to leave you undefended? It seems a bit odd that the attack will never hurt you directly, perhaps some modification to the way quake handles low damage attacks might be in order.

One idea would be to keep a running total of fractional damage for attacks that get totally saved by armour, tracking how much each one has been rounded up by. When that running total reaches a whole integer the amount of damage taken from the attack that tipped it over becomes 1 to health and 1 less to armour. This is the 'starcraft' approach.

The other option I had in mind would be a 'statistical' method. When considering the amount of damage to inflict, look at the fractional part of the amount saved by the armour. If this fraction is more than a call to random() round up the damage to armour, if not round down. So if 5.6 damage was saved(eg red armour on 7 hp damage) it would cause 6 damage to armour 60% of the time and 5 damage 40% of the time. 
The Grim Etcetera 
The Polyps were toned down after Contract Revoked - thier attacks used to be a bit more fearsome and rapid fire. Now its fairly rare to be killed by one, unless they're used next to a hazard - lava / slime, where thier push ability comes into play. I'd be in favour of just upping its damage to 2 or 3 (I think it's 1 per hit now) and maybe doubling the rate of fire - resetting them to how they were to be honest.

The difficulty of the maps is there from the start and continues all the way through. Its fairly easy to get blaise about always playing on hard / NM - then play Nehahra on NM and realise Quake normal on NM isn't too tough.

The secrets range from stupidly easy (Haunter of the Dark, Bile Plant) to very complex (Shadow Tower, Sealed City) but there's so many in each level that casual players will almost certainly come across a handful.

The scale of the maps is too massive to cope with - its a bloated Nurgle of a pack, but something of this type didn't really exist before. Future projects will be different, since I think I've exhausted (beaten like a dead horse) this play style, for now at least.

The naming of stuff I generally come up with when hungover, which is where the sarcasm / grim humour comes from. The best thing I named in the pack is Harsh Angled Edge, poking fun at my own mapping as well as creating an allusion to Lovecraft - his descriptions of R'lyeh.

Sielwolf, those demos are excellent. The mental anguish practically leaks out of the screen, especially on warpc. Sorry ;)

Again, I tried to make a demo of warpc during my lunch hour the other day and failed miserably upon reaching the church style chambers after the tower - fried by a Gaunt. 
It Might Be A Stupid Question.... 
But will there be any QC source release? Or the Quoth QC is not releasable? 
AFAIK Kell + Necros will release the source for the current version of Quoth once the new version is finished.

The only reason there's a Warp Spasm folder (as opposed to running inside the Quoth folder) is because I swapped out some resources (models, sounds) apart from those it can run inside the Quoth folder normally, assuming its own engines are used. 
Post 107. 
+1 informative.

I think the Polyps serve a useful function that doesn't require increasing their damage. They are mobile, relatively hard to hit, unnerving in their appearing act, explode with damage, AND although they do little damage, the effect on screen is as if there is a lot more damage being done. They are a tool not to damage the player but to unnerve the player, IMO.

On the subject of Quoth monsters. The "Shambler-class" monster with 4 tentacle arms that shoots fireballs at you - is that a Gug or a Drole? Anyway, I really really do wish that they actually had to make contact with you to hit you, rather than randomly slapping you and damaging you from several feet away with no contact. Not that it makes them any different to fight, but it does bug me. 
Like Death Guard 
I Have Realised. 
This is a very important Quake release overall. 
Well Siel, 
...just went through warpC with the help of oyur demo... Quite satisfying, I must say,but, what happened of the following levels? Especially warpD is a pain in the ass secrets-wise... Would you mind record full runs of those, too?
I'd appreciate it a lot. Nice work, keep it up.... 
This is a very important Quake release overall.
Indeed, ijed has a great gift for creating a freaking evil and hostile atmosphere on Quake maps (which is nice of course). 
Kind of hard to reply to those comments without sounding like a prick.


Hopefully it'll galvanise others so that the Q1 community beomes even more active. 
For The Community! 
keep them coming 
Warp D Demo 
all secrets, 664/666 kills, 59 minutes. Ran nearly out of ammo halfway through and was in single digit health several times, *aargghh*

Ijed/Silent: thanks for your nice comments, glad you liked the demos :)

P.S. Would be cool to see someone doing warpe or the secret map, those are not that large. 
... If I had da mad skillz to get through a level on first attempt without trusty F6, I'd record warpe and the secret map... wait! Is there a secret map? Told you I needeed a walkthrough....

Oh, well... I'll try and record a coupla demos anyway, so you people will get at last a coupla minutes laughing your **s off at my sorry skills... 
Why Don't You Try 
recording a demo on coop 4? I did on demo2 ... 
care for criticism ijed? 
I there's lots wrong or that could be better in the design; criticism means I'm less likely to make the same mistakes again.

Warpe will be practically impossible to speedrun - the end battle is a very tense affair, despite the quad and can boil down to a combination of good skills and pure luck.

The secret level is accessed at the end by finding the four three rune shrines and playing in nightmare. 
????? Ijed? 
In that order? I mean, I must play on NM and get the runes or get the runes and then play on NM?

Also, I already found 2 runes but they don't appear in the HUD, what's up?

And last, on the sheer constructive criticism, there are still items(health, mainly) going through walls with their edges.

But, you already know how huge a fan I am of this pack, don't you? 
In that order? I mean, I must play on NM and get the runes or get the runes and then play on NM?

Also, I already found 2 runes but they don't appear in the HUD, what's up?

And last, on the sheer constructive criticism, there are still items(health, mainly) going through walls with their edges.

But, you already know how huge a fan I am of this pack, don't you? 
... sorry for the double post.... 
No Runes 
The runes don't show up because Quoth uses the Rogue HUD to accommodate the new weapon icons, instead of the standard one. You still collect them fine. 
there are still items(health, mainly) going through walls with their edges
I thought this was intentional... 
Is selected at the start of the pack - so thats when you get the rune. They're all still collected even though you don't see 'em. Could work better but does function.

There's four rune shrines in total, each one a secret, though only the first three hold a rune.

The boxes aren't supposed to clip with anything - the same as you're supposed to be able to easily pick them up. 
Thanks To Everyone. 
Now it's clear. Gonna try.

No problem with picking up items, it's just a matter of looks, really.

Nothing major, anyway.

I am stuck on the Sealed City. There's this part where you go into this gate in a crack in a wall, and you end up on the rafters over top the room you were just in, right, and when you go through the gate at the other end, you just end up on this ledge where you cant do anything but jump off to a place where I've already been. HELP? 
There's Shamblers In The Place You've Already Been, Below 
Kill them on the flesh blocking the corridor beneith the ledge you're stood on, Myself, gibs.

Which allows access to the Fire Temple. 
Kill them 'and' the flesh . . . 
i remember that being slightly confusing too... 
Warpc (and D) 
The Sealed City - another great map but too big for me. The architecture was very good and interesting again. There were so many places that looked amazing and atmospheric also. The combat was nice and good balanced on skill 1. Unfortunatelly I died in the dark section with many doors that opened after buttons were pressed (the part after the platform ride near beginning). Nice floor trap in that section also :).
I could find secret by luck only but I didn't watch after them. The level takes too much time without exploring already. After watching the 100% demos on warpb and warpc I have to admit that the secrets are pretty clever and the naming is also realy nice (better in warpb I think). The demos are very enjoyable by the way.
Comparing warpb and warpc I liked the first one better. The atmosphere, skill setup and size appealed better to me.
warpd - played it a bit but the huge monster count just repels me from playing it further. You just kill 100 and there are still over 400 waiting for you - too much! Maybe I will just watch a demo. 
Don't Be Put Off 
Warpd has 666 monsters on hard, but takes (slightly) less time to play than warpc because its alot more blasty - you end up using the PG alot more, alongside the RL as well.

The big fights tend to shorten a bit as well, you're either dead, or victorious, quick. So quicksave first ;) 
these maps made me realize for the first time how useful the rocket launcher can be in single player... 
underworldfan or someone should review this pack... 
just play it already for heaven's sake. 
i finish playing last night but need to replay again ;) for 100% :) try on hard died lots of times going to run on normal... 
Another Small Demo 
Here's a quickie run on warpd, easy skill, 17 seconds. I know running like this isn't the point of this episode and I also want to say thanks to Sielwolf for some excellently entertaining demos out of which I've watched the warpc and warpd ones so far. 
Map The Third. 
Sealed City / Warpc / whatever homie.

Having learnt my lesson from Warpb, I didn't try to complete this without dying and I didn't try to play it continuously. Took a few sessions and several deaths. I did put the effort into surviving and fighting well though.

Great map, prefered it to Warpb. More interesting designs and stronger atmosphere. The style seemed to work better with the large scale. More great designs in this one, and some more funky little details I thought, like the random flesh strips and little lava pots. The Kell-whatever texture worked well. This had a vibe to it that kept dragging me back.

Gameplay, I generally liked. Getting used to the style of gameplay and always checking my six. I got a bit bored of the Death Guard knights, and sometimes a bit bored of Droles. The other monsters were used well. The combat generally felt well balanced, and there was usually plenty of space to move around which was good and appreciated. The spike room trap I couldn't make sense of it, I got past it by jumping. Generally the lava wasn't much of a problem, which was a relief. I'm sure there were a few silly "impossible first time" combats but cos I was quicksaving a lot I can't remember them. Oh, I didn't like the maze bit. I liked the areas having seperate names, that was a cool touch.

This was a very good map overall. Even with the vast size. 
More General Comments: 
1. I meant what I said by this being an important release. A really important one. Behind Nehahra and Quoth itself of course, maybe parallel with that thing Tronyn did (the medieval one, sorry I forgot the name!). The combination of mapping quality, the sheer amount of Quake, and more specifically the huge mapping style - whether it's a good thing or not, it is making an impact.

I predict the next trend will be ultra-small, ultra-detailed maps. 20 monster maps that pack in thousands of brushes and surprisingly long gameplay. Maybe ;).

2. There is a wind sound noticable in Warpc, specifically the outside area with the spiral path leading to a spikey tower - that is taken from Unreal, right?? It reminded me a lot of some of the more "exposed" levels in Unreal. Which is a very good memory.

3. Secrets. I got 14/20 in Warpc. I can't remember how many in Warpb, a similar proportion. I thought that was actually quite good. I think the thing is, you start the maps and see 20 secrets, and think "Fuck they must be like, every single room has them in". But you don't realise the sheer size of the maps and actually the secrets are well spaced. They do take some hunting though. Generally good, but one thing slightly bugs me is that there are many details/fittings/trims etc that could be secrets but aren't. As someone above said, the maps are long enough already without hunting hard for secrets.

4. Slime / lava / void. I've noticed, having a quick peek at Warpe, that with the exception of Warpa, all these maps are consistently full of enviromental hazards! I felt the lava in WarpC was less of an issue than the slime in WarpB (and indeed lent itself to some nice visual styles), but it's still an omnipresent hazard. Is this a concious decision in the episode?

5. Quoth monsters revisited:

Vorelings - I like a lot. They always seem to damage me, but they fit in very well.

Death Guard - They're okay but I get bored of them. I wish they actually had to make contact with the sword to hit you, grrr.

Other Knight - I like his style a lot. The methodical pacing and sprite shield is a nice touch. I've worked out his role - easy to kill, but a world of pain if you get caught out by his attacks.

Polyp - I like them, weird and unusual, a good gameplay tool for "panic mode".

Flying thing - Okay, I like their sound effects and it's good to have a flying monster, but not quite Quakey enough and their attacks are a pain in the arse in some situations.

Droles - Okay, again I've got a bit bored of them. Their style is quite amusing. I like them in general but again wish they actually made contact to damage you.

Gugs - I like them because they excude power. Not that hard to face in most situations BUT they've got a good dramatic presence. Could be a bit more Quakey and less simian in style.

6. I forgot 6. 
Thanks for the comments, it's nice to know it's being disected by more people.

The wind noise is from Quake3, (demonwind3, I think) nut I've heard it in other games (Eternal Darkness, cutscene atop the pillar of flesh) and maybe others, so I think its some kind of stock videogame evil wind snfx.

The secrets there aren't actually alot of - if I'd placed them in, say, every other room, then there'd be some stupid number. Instead I just placed them where they seemed appropriate or special, there could have been alot more.

I remember something . . . someone said on the traps thread - it basicly boiled down to 'this environment is not your friend'. It's to create a hostile atmosphere as well as a asthetic backdrop, I like all my maps to feature a liquid. The slime in warpb is a little bit harder to get out of (or sometimes instant death) the lava in warpc is always instant death, apart from one secret - or unless you're really fucking fast. The void in d + e is instant death, making a progression. 
A Progression... 

What about standard water?? 
Hehe, nice shortcut! 
I forgot to add snowmelt to warpa . . . 
And as a progression of environmental hazards it starts weak and becomes more dangerous - what's the dictionary definition again? 
you start the pack in a puddle of water, isn�t that enough ?

@Mandel: nice demo / thanks 
No, you're right, it is progression.

Although, progression usually implies a positive step, i.e. progression towards something better. Which made me LOL.

Surely you could progress further....have some enviromental thing that's even worse than the that occasionally reaches out and tries to drag the player into it or randomly fires shit at the player ;) 
Tried it in Lazarus Q2 - think Sarlac pit from starwars, but with tenticles that grab the player (func_gravities + medic cable fx, and another spinning gibber like in warpb) didn't work too well. Basicly if a tenticle got the player from a certain range they could struggle but not actually escape, so I made each tenticle killable by shooting its origin. Was a bit random and instant death if you didn't know about it.

Snowmelt would have been good in warpa though - originally the GL secret was going to be an underground cave system inside the cliff face, leading to the rune instead, before I just included it in the start map.

Ran out of patience / time. 

Although, progression usually implies a positive step, i.e. progression towards something better.

I think that's only the case when the goal to be achieved is considered as "something better." 
P.S. Would be cool to see someone doing warpe or the secret map, those are not that large.

Done. Took me several goes, including to get a success I was happy with. I've emailed the Dzip to Spirit, hopefully he will put it in the directory at Quaddicted. 
That's the secret map done, I mean. 
Murder Mandala 
Is very difficult, usually takes around ten tries to survive it.

And then all I did was write a message :P 
Cheers Spirit. 
It probably took me more than 10 tries. But less than 20.

That demo is Skill 2, 61/61 1/1 (doh), 2:12-ish.

I managed to refine my tactics thus:

1. Run out of the centre (duh).
2. Keep running around the edge, but stay close to the blocks initially - this keeps the Fiends milling in the centre more.
3. Passing each gap, dodge Fiends and fire a couple of rockets in.
4. Keep doing this for a while - the main aim is to ignore the Vores and let them start in-fighting, and keep the Droles on the upper levels (too many Droles and Fiends are a pain in the arse), but take down as many Fiends as possible - to avoid getting swamped with them.
5. When the Fiend numbers thin, start bringing Droles down.
6. Avoid the centre if possible, keep ignoring any remaining Vores, and kill stuff. 
Warpd "pseudo First Attempt" 
444/666, died on some Fiend / laser / knight / dog / enforcer combination. It had been somewhat overdue, this was quite hard.

I'd had a few half-arsed attempts at the first room before, the rest was first attempt.

I've got a demo if wanted, about 2 hours, 17 meg zipped. Just say if you want me to send it or have a space to upload it.

Comments when I've finished it. 
speedrun anyone? 
Mandel did a run in 17 seconds :)

post #139 
Speed Issues... Eeeeelp! 
anyone got some tips on speeding this thing up?
the snow level was fine, the rubicon/base level was fine. as soon as i entered the castle it ran almost to halt. like r_speeds of 1!
my command line looks like this...
nehwarp.exe -quoth -game warp -HEAPSIZE 90000 -winmem 1000 -width 800 -height 600 -conwidth 768 -gamma 0.4 -texgamma 1.2

i'd really love to continue, but its unplayable with these settings. 
Ooops, I meant 100% kills :D 
Try changing the heapsize option to lower case -heapsize 48000 and removing the winmem/texgamma options (not valid here).

Gamma is best adjusted in-game if possible, try that first before resorting to the gamma option. Most "modern" cards support hardware gamma I think. 
Yeah, I think the heapsize command isn't used when in capitals, so yours [kona] will be defaulting to 32 (engine default, original Quake being 16) which is pretty much unplayable.

If you still have problems go into the autoexec and remove the gl_exttex line (monster skins) and try upping the heapsize even further - 64000.

I'm not 100% those would work - turning off the external textures would only speed up loading, for example, but both can be worth a try.

inertia, maybe I'll give it another try, but I always end up killing myself trying to jump over a too-big pit or reach some semi-useless item with rocket push . . . I'll try today. 
I forgot about the autoexec, if there's a line gl_max_size 2048, try removing that line or lower the value by cutting in half (i.e. 1024, 512, 256). If your gfx card texture memory gets exceeded, you'll get really bad performance.

Similarly, if there's a line gl_texquality 2, try removing that as well. 
Those are both in there and can be reduced / removed to help performance.

There's also another bug :| in that I forgot to remove developer 1 from the list - if you get rid of that the number of returned bugs from console will drop by 90%, although the warnings at map load will remain. 
Jebus Tapdancin Christ 
Nearly made it all the way through . . . got distracted near the end at the Drole ambush.

It shows all secrets (I think) and gets through around 90% of the map.


It's in dzip (not 7zip) because my zippers are incomplete at the office - I was going to rar it, but thats not a Quake format :) 
Completely this early. Went fairly smoothly after last night's debacle. I managed to miss out one area by all the confusing bridge up and down switches. Albeit it meant I got stuck somewhere and had to get back by a rocket jump.

So yes. 637 / 666 monsters, 7 or 8 / 11 secrets. Several hours or days playing I forget.

This is good but I didn't like the style as much. It's bleak, but also somewhat bland in places....back to more empty rooms again. WarpC had some striking styles / micro-designs that gave it a good look, but this doesn't gel together as well. There were some cool bits - the teleporter hub, the fleshy bits, the moving jigsaw floors, some of the pillar designs and cool floating details. Some good sounds too.

The void aspect was a constant niggle, it's definitely more present than the hazards in the other two maps, along with the bloody laser shooters. Obviously part of the "progression" :P. I found it grated on my nerves, it was entertaining in some places, and surprisingly I hardly fell in, but over a whole map it was more of a constant irritation. I did get the vibe of the enviroment being hostile to me, but I'd prefer that hostility in more interesting or dramatic ways than an omnipresent grey pit.

Gameplay was the usual stuff, again I picked up the vibe with the really have gone all out to make this as nasty as possible eh!! I found the health situation was okay, but I was constantly below-par on ammo. A bit more, shells in particular, would have helped. The gameplay was even tougher but still pretty well balanced through the most part. Quite a bit of it could be worked around with some cunning, which was good. The blend of tactics and hardcore twitch fighting was good in places, I got into that. There seemed to be a few "impossible first go" situations - I got through one of them (dropped floor + 5 Fiends + already low on health) first go somehow. Some of the other ambushes were cool though, a bit more hordey which worked in some places. The ending situation was quite easy as you could escape it.

One more thing: The layout is mind-boggling when you reconnect with the earlier bits later on.It's all very big! 
Glad You Liked 
But as you can see from the demo I put on the hub there's not enough ammo - I should have put around ten more boxes of shells scattered around throughout the map.

It's missing more of the meatech machinery, like the spinning or floating bits - I just ran out of time.

The void thing is a constant hazard torturing on the nerves, as well as the multidirectional laser traps. It was indeed part of my progressive trap masterplan, it worked, but its pretty grim. Kind of the style for the whole map.

The end I kind of spoiled for the benefit of speedrunner, towards finishing the projst.

Before if you fell off you hit void that seperated the large central area (top from bottom) - I removed it so speedrunners could rocketjump to the top (like Mandel in his demo).

It would have been better if I'd used some of the func_togglewall tricks that are in other places of the map to funnel monsters - if the player touches it then it vanishes (via trigger_once) shots can go through it but monsters can't. Of course I'd have to include a trigger_hurt that's killed so a rocketjumper would deactivate the 'trap' anyway. Ah well, I think its the median strip. 
my zippers are incomplete at the office

That's what usually gets me in trouble. 
Indeed -HEAPSIZE wasn't working. Lower case and everything was fine. Continued from where I left off at the start of warpc and didn't move my ass till I finished the whole thing. Took nearly 4 hours!

Gameplay was fantastic ijed. I would have gone for many more massive battles, but it wasn't really necessary. I was playing on normal of course, but the whole thing was pretty well balanced for me. Died lots of times, mostly in the near lethal surprise ambushes and a bunch of times on the traps. But never got stuck on any battle, and I was never low on ammo and always had heaps of rockets/cells. The few times health got a bit low was only in warpd, and there were many MH's scattered around. It's just a little annoying having to go on a trek to find one you passed earlier. The battles at the end of each map were fantastic. The end battle, I would have done differently though. I died several times... each time either falling off the edge or killing myself with the quad and PG/RL combo. No void, much more room, and maybe no quad at all would have made the battle longer. Completely missing the RA in the last battle and going in with no armour didn't help.
Found about 4 or 5 secrets during the entire game, so they weren't really required for normal. A couple were RA's, another a pointless rune, the rest were powerups I didn't bother using anyway. Didn't get SNG until halfway through warpc, and the RL until warpd, but if I had them alot earlier things would have been MUCH easier. Not sure if the RL shows up in an earlier secret...
Anyway I'd give gameplay a top score.

The design of the levels is great, especially considering this is your first release (I think?). The layouts were all fantastic. I didn't really mind the size of them much at all... they were well interconnected. The only problem for me was nearly getting lost several times because the design was quite repetitive, especially in warpd. There could have been more big setpieces. There were a few maze areas, 2 particularly in warpb and warpc, that I didn't like. Those 2 levels were the best looking, especially warpc - that was a fantastic looking level. warpb was great looking, great level design, but I'm just not a big fan of the texture set. The third main level, warpd, I didn't like the texture combination at all, and some of the design was pretty bland. I've never been a fan of void maps, but that's just a personal preference. Of course, if you add much more detail to everything, you wouldn't be able to make such huge levels, so its a tradeoff.

Anyway fantastic pack ijed. Certainly in my top 10. Can't wait for you to make more, but I would prefer more medieval like warpc. 

The pointless rune you mention - I'm almost certain it was n warpc. The reason it exists is because it allows access to another secret. There's two like that in warpc.

It was a design decesion to make warpd bland - large open floorspaces bordered with void, blocky architecture with buzzing light fixtures. It's not too cool looking but it does function - Just needed more of the details that are scattered around, like I said.

Both the SNG and RL are obtainable by secret in the map beforehand - proceeded by a message 'something opened . . .' but they're not too easy to find and only there in the final 1/3 of the map.

Incomplete zippers are a major problem - something must be done about this blatant disregard for public decency. 
I Wonder What I Have To Do To Play This ... 
... given that I don't have windows. I have joequake on linux (running under parallels, so gl performance sucks, could install linux natively) or vanilla glquake on os x (the fruitz of dojo build), the source to both and am willing to hack a bit.

Ideas? What are the features of the warpspasm engines that I'd have to reimplement? 
There Are No 
special custom engine features that need to be added for this pak to run, i.e. any Q1 engine should be able to run this pak if just all the bugs were fixed and unnecessary limits were removed.

All files are in plain Q1 format, although utilized to the hilt. There are no q3bsps, md2/3, mp3 or other non-Q1 stuff in it, not even png or jpg. Just plain bsp, mdl, wav, tga etc.

Since WinWarp can run it, there are no required extensions. It'll look better with skyboxes, fog and external mdl/spr texture support, but it's not required to run it.

And those extra items are all in the most common formats that many engines support, e.g. tga skyboxes/textures. The external mdl/spr textures are e.g. in JoeQuake style (inherited from FuhQuake, I think)

You'll need to expand the engine protocol to accommodate for the higher limits, but that can be done in any way you see fit. The only time the protocol makes any difference is when playing MP (e.g. coop) or recording/playing back demos. In those cases, you'll need to have the same protocol in all clients/servers.

Otherwise the protocol is just an internal engine method that can be implemented in any arbitrary way. My implementation is as simple as it gets, just expanded fields for mdls and sounds. 
yeah i read that the runes open the secret level earlier. what i meant was it was useless for ME, since I wasn't on nightmare and never found the other ones. i just noclipped to the secret level anyway, hehe.

so ijed have u started your next big q1 pack yet? :) 
I played it fine using wine. :) 
Wine, Hmm 
Not working quite righ for me, but it's an interesting idea... I'll hassle you over details in IRC some time! 
Shouldn't be too hard. All I have installed is wine, wine-utils, libwine, libwine-alsa, libwine-gl. All 0.9.25-2.1 from the debian repositories. I had to append -noipx to the commandline (wine glwarp.exe -noipx -quoth -game warp). I had sound crashes (resulting in lots of noise) every now and then, that was annoying but I think it is my crappy onboard soundcard. 
Well, I'm messing around with some stuff and have a couple of test maps, and I'm maybe going to learn some Qc, or how to copy + paste it, anyway.

Nothing like the size of Warp, maps topping around 200 monsters or so. 
All Right, I Give Up... 
... spent the best part of last weekend(in and out) trying to get the last 2 secrets of warpe. To no avail. I only found crushing, ballache and fearless. Could not figure how to get to sneaky and , of course, the last one's missing(rune?). Please, oh, please anyone willing to lend a hand?
Here's some hints:

Jump through a hole in the wall near some Shamblers and Gaunts for sneaky.

The lost shrine is the final one, though it has no rune. Search for it after you've dropped through the Vermis pit teleport. 
Map The Fifth. 
Several attempts, obviously.

Does what it says on the tin really. Hard gameplay and a brief but brutal final battle. Not much finesse but fun enough. The challenge seems to come from the lack of cover, and those flying things getting where you can't hit them. It was pretty good. I like the architecture better, it had hints of WarpD but enhanced on it with increased grandeur and more fleshy bits. Being considerably shorter the void and the challenging gameplay didn't get tiresome. I do think a bit more variety in gameplay would have been better though. 
This is a hugely impressive pack. It has taken Quake into a whole new level of size and hardcore attrition gameplay.

Some of it I didn't like, a lot of it I did. I do think my attempts to get through the maps first go were actually the wrong thing to do - it was a pretty gruelling challenge. Playing a map in "episodic" stages was more fun and would have allowed me to appreciate the sheer scope more - this worked for WarpC, although I still maintain that's the best for objective factors.

However even though I found some of it gruelling, this pack has certainly been prominent in my mind in the last couple of weeks - it has got me quite addicted in fact. That in itself is a good feat for a map release!

Well done ijed, a hell of a way to make your mark. 
Thanks Shambler 
And the best way to play it is piecemeal, at first at least. For second runthroughs try the extra game mode options - I still haven't played it in coop modes myself; trying to get a group of four together, but not easy in Quake. 
...for those of whom it might be of interest, here's the high spec stereo version of the track I made to accompany 'warpe'. 
...worst English sentence ever. Sorry for butchering the language. 
256 Kbps! 
high spec stereo version of the track I made

Hey! warpe soundtrack is way cool! Thanks for this!
Any other music files of yours accessible out there? 
Distrans - I called it starscream inside the pack's readme because of the email conversation . . .

Thanks for this stereo version - goes in the playlist :) 
...only the Travail soundtrack (in terms of ambient) so far. That should become very useful on Monday or Tuesday of next week.

There's other bits and bobs (some pop, rock and even country) but nothing I'd recommend. When the current Folk Noir project gets some stuff together, I'll point you at it.

ijed: I thought about it, but out of deference to tronyn I decided to go with warpe-dis :) 
. . . 
So Travail is out next week? Nice.

Also, never heard of Tronyn's Starscream map - Ethereal Hell says it was part of the Coagula contest . . . have to play. 
Star Scream is a great name for a map. 
the Travail soundtrack

Yeaaah. I didn't miss this release some months ago, but I tried not to spoil my pleasure and kept it fresh for the - now soon to be released :P - Travail mission. (Once you've seen a good movie or played a great game, listen to its related soundtrack is such a compelling and addictive memory trigger!)
...Although my Travail soundtrack CD is burnt ready yet! 
Just Played This. 
my opinions..

start map. very nice, probably the most brutal nightmare entrance i've ever encountered! not that i went for it, once i'd found it i backtracked & went to the normal one instead =) solid design here though

warpa. wasn't too keen on this, mainly because of the snowy textures, imo quake doesn't handle them that well. the designs were pretty plain also, although i did like the end room. gameplay was so-so, got rather annoyed at the repetitive shambler ambushes. the exit was neat =)

warpb. wowow, fantastic! best new map i've played since marcher fortress. the scale & layout were both tops, with really neat architecture & great use of curves.. the end arena being the highlight. gameplay was also spot on, never once felt too crowded despite the huge monster count, and managed to stay varied with a few decent setpieces. the music & the fog really added to the atmosphere, too. ended up finishing in 76:14, somehow with only 397/427 kills, despite killing everything i came across. only found 2 secrets =(

warpc. also awesome, although not quite as consistent as the previous map.. it had some annoying parts, like the purification chamber (just seemed like lots of excessive running around) and the massive curved underground catacomb section towards the end (where you had to push three buttons & fight shitloads of droles.. got tiring), but plenty of good parts too, like the gk area, underground lava cave, final arena & library sections. overall i think the variety works in favour ; it felt more like an episode rather than just a big level the way warpb did. very epic.. finished in 92:48 with 5 secrets, 382/399 kills

warpd. considering the quality of the first two maps, this was a massive letdown =( i hated it. thought it looked really bland & far too 'right angled' with lots of samey looking sections & without much in the way of interesting/pretty architecture. the layout also seemed alot simpler & 2d, and the gameplay was FAR too repetitive; playing it felt more of a chore than an enjoyment, especially in the later stages. i think the main problem was it was just too damn big given the lack of variety, and went on for too long. in addition, the atmosphere from the two previous maps just seemed absent; maybe it was the bland lighting, change of mood in the soundtrack or the bright skybox.. but i really couldn't get into it. the gore sections didn't seem to integrate that well either, they just contributed to the randomness of the design. forgot to screenshot my exit stats after finishing but my time was around 82 mins, a good 10 mins or so less than warpc but it felt an eternity longer

warpe. better.. although some of the design work looked a bit messy and the lighting seemed to lack contrast on some of the more open sections. the vertical aspect was neat though; the gaunts were really effective as a result. the droles/vores/shamblers got a bit boring to fight though, since it was just standard ducking/shooting for most of the map, in a fairly linear fashion. the end battle i'm in two minds on... whilst it was well engineered, the only way i could beat it was by polishing off all the monsters before the quad ran out; which resulted in short crazy bursts of gameplay with lots of retry attempts.. when ultimately i'd have preferred a longer, more epic battle, with more chance of surviving on the first/second attempt

on the whole, i'd have to say kudos for coming out with something this size all by yourself, that must be one hell of a task. even if warpd was completely left out it would still be an epic episode, and i'd have probably rated it alot higher. still either way it's definitely inspired me & hopefully will serve as some sort of a milestone in q1, pushing the limits the way the the classics (mexx9, zer, insomnia etc) did. i look forward to your future projects, ijed! 
Cheers Rj 
warpa and warpd are the weakest in the pack - and the last ones finsihed, they should have been more detailed.

Warpc is the map I like the least (horror) its built from scraps, more or less, even though all the scraps were built for warpc. It was assembled from multiple files, which is why its so disparate.

Warpb is easily my favourite map of the pack, even though its very sectional, which is belaboured by the scale of the environment.

warpe and s were pretty much fun stuff to build, even though the gameplay is fairly flat. I was stuck on the final battle of warpe because what I wanted to do wouldn't work since monsters cannot destroy scenery even by accident.

So I went guns blazing - maybe its a bit tedious to do the constant quickloads but its also a scraping through by the skin of your teeth feeling that gives a good sense of accomplishment.

Glad you liked.

I'm messing with a couple of maps at the moment, waiting for one to catch my attention enough for me to finish it. 
Finally Finished ... 
So, it took a while to finish the full pack, and I do not have more to say than others: what a pack ! These levels are really really big, and each needs hours to close it with 100%...
Nice job, I'm just curious to see the next one ;)
Keep it up ! 
I played it whole night, still stopped at warpd because I need to sleep sometimes =)

A great pack. Interesting gameplay, good design, large scale (which I liked the most). great job! But spawns were annoying. I kept walking with GL looking around the corners for spawns and tried to kill them before they begin to jump. Also I didn't like those ambushes of dogs/fiends behind you, but then got kinda used to them.
Good use of dogs. It seems like most of people forgot that these monsters exist in the quake universe. Good traps but you could have done a little more them in maps of such scale.

Well, it seems that mappers can simply use aguire's engine for their maps and forget about marksurfaces, clipnodes, edicts and other limits and make maps of giant scale with tons of monsters. Am I not right?

ps gonna finish this mod tonight 
Glad You Liked 
The traps are a bit lame, I admit. There should have been more that involved the whole environment, with moving floors, walls etc. As complex as it gets is warpd with multiple laser shooters, but that's it.

I tried to keep the spawns natural, as if the enemies have entered the map from somewhere else and only just caught up to you, but that's not always as is in many parts.

AguirRe's engines are great. 
AguirRe's Engines 
only run on Windows. I hacked my Proquake so I could at least run TPOF (static entitities) and warpa, but warpb/c still crash it. I don't know exactly which limits I'd have to raise and where to look in the code. I just raised max_static_entities in one of the header files. Seems to solve _that_ problem.

Anyway Ijed said from the start that it needed its own engines so that's OK. It's his good right.

warpa was very much like Doom 2. The shambler attack with the screenshake and breaking walls was cool. Good effects Ijed :-)

I hope that Baker's Proquake will have some limits raised because that will run on Unix at least, don't know about MacOS though. Mac Quakers are probably screwed from the start.

Running stuff in an emulator like Wine is obviously "suboptimal."

Don't take this as criticism Ijed, it's just general ranting. Your maps are cool. 
I realised from the start I'd be cutting down on those who would be able to play the maps, but decided to go ahead and really break the limits rather than just tip them.

Basicly for the big three you need all limits raised; marksurfaces, entities, static entities etc. Warpd runs a bit lighter, but not much. 
I hope that Baker's Proquake will have some limits raised

When I start playing around on my Linux machine to compile that engine project I will also see if I can create a Linux versions of aguirRe's engines.

That isn't going to be immediate, but I personally don't know of anything that should hold back a Linux build for aguirRe's engine. 
I'm able to do the required hacking I guess; I may try to screw around a bit more.

Baker, AguirRe's winquake failed to build last time I tried. You're doubtlessly more familiar with the code than I am, so if you can do that it would be so much appreciated.

I feel bad doing the lobbying, but I suspect there must be more people like me out there. :/ the silent ones. 
And Baker 
Your Proquake development is the best thing to hit Linux Netquake since I don't know when. Thank. you. 
I badly want aguirRe's engine for Linux! 
While On The Subject 
are there a few extra steps needed to build WinQuake in XP? With Windows 98/ME, you simply had to have Visual C++ and Masm installed, you then built the Masm2Gasm executable from the Quake source and things were fine, but it is not such an easy compilation in XP as I've recently discovered. 
this should be moved to another thread, but all my tools/engines are built in XP Home. There are no special problems, actually I'd expect it to be a lot more issues in Win9x. 
It Struck Me Last Night That... 
...the proximity mine launcher from SoA would've actually been a useful SP weapon in this pack. In fact these might be the only types of SP levels where the prox launcher is more than just a gimmick. 
With the Nehahra roaming monster AI - not just the teleporting, but the wandering about as well. 
Oh My Fucking God 
(I installed Ubuntu on my MacBook and am playing with Wine, nicely obscure I think)

These maps are blowing my mind :-) It's mainly the size, I think, they're well constructed and creepy and all, but there have been well built creepy maps before -- just not ones where one of the maps of the pack took me 80 minutes of playing on skill 0... It feels like you could have fit all of the original id maps inside some of the rooms of warpb.

It's actually fairly easy on skill 0 if you're just a bit cautious. Masses of ammo, plenty of health. Maybe I should have played on skill 1, but it's ok with me so far.

Congratulation, ijed. If only you could travel back in time and show this to Carmack, Romero et al. as Quake was being released.

I'm not even finished yet... 
Runs On Wine? 
Hm, thought it was out of the question.

Glad you like the maps - I still get the odd email saying thanks, so its nice to know all that work went somewhere. 
Yeah, Wine Works 
Performance is a bit middling, but it's only a intel integrated gfx card, and it crashes every now and again, but it works pretty well. I was surprised! 
I closed off alot of people from playing the pack by not cutting the levels into chunks, but it wasn't the direction I wanted to go in. Baker's made an EZ installer available over on QuakeOne which makes it a bit simpler for those who haven't played the game for years.

I'm working on an episode 3 remake in Quoth atm, alot smaller in specific map size and much more fun to do now that I've stopped remapping the originals. I did have fun making warp, but the sheer size made it very unweildy for testing or trying out ideas on the fly. 
Yep, AguirRe's engines generally run in wine, but the price is the same as with other emulators. Maps run dog-slow, and there might be any number of issues (sound etc.)

Might be bearable for small maps, but we're talking big-ass maps here otherwise there would be no need for special engines. So the slowness adds up, part coming from using an emulator, and part just coming from very big maps.

I'd estimate that most Wine apps only perform at 70% native speed, plus the usual problems. And I'm not alone there.


And this is _not_ a complaint. Just the facts. (disclaimer ;-D) 
I played Warpspasm with wine&glquake too and the only issue were sudden random sound screw-ups. Speed is not an issue, actually some games are said to run faster with wine than in Windows. What you saying are no facts but FUD about wine. It's not an emulator by the way... 
Running Warp In Linux 
Unsure if anyone already gave this as an option, but if you want to run Warpspasm under Linux, you can use the DarkPlaces engine, which somewhat recently got support for Warpspasm. 
...and running warp in DarkPlaces under Windows should work just as well, if you dig that flavor ;) (haven't tried yet, other than watching the startdemos, which run fine) 
Huh, Didn't Know That 
Have to give it a look. 
It's not a myth. It's my experience, which is shared by a (rather large) number of other people. I have run quite a lot of popular Windows games under Wine, and they are all slower compared to Windows (I used to have Windows installed as a dual-boot option) and often have additional issues, the most prominent one being sound. And Wine is an emulator for all practical purposes (I know the story about why it's technically not an emulator etc.)

Of course the Wine website says it's a myth. That's because the speed issue has probably been the major negative remark about wine in the past. If my product had all kinds of issues, I would do exactly that (call it a myth.) There are massive commercial interests behind Wine (Codeweavers, Windows software vendors.)

You can go to any linux distro's user forum and search for "wine bugs/problem/slow/issue" and you'll find soon enough these are no myths. You can do the same in the Wine bugzilla and you'll find even more interesting things.

With faster hardware and more RAM becoming available, people don't notice it as much today. That's all.

Sure Wine has its place, but for FPS-critical or time-intensive applications, it doesn't seem very reasonable to rely on it when you can run the same app natively.

Can't we leave it at that? I already said I wasn't complaining... and that's true. I am beginning to think the whole discussion is better avoided here.


FUD is pretty nasty, I can't see why you used that. I was just relating my experience. 
I don't want to totally derail this, but the Wine not-an-emulator speed question is interesting.

Given a program like glquake or another quake engine, there are relatively few windows API calls. Most of the code is internal algorithms made up of machine instructions which should run the same speed given the same CPU. However, what about the video drivers? Since I assume your glquake-on-wine has to link to linux video drivers, perhaps those drivers are not as good as the windows drivers for the same graphics card? 
I Remember 
fuhquake-sw precompiled binary with self compiled svgalib was perhaps up to 10% faster in old red hat linux back in 2002 than in windows.

But practically everything else like web browsing was slower in linux. :) 
Wine Is Not A Goddamn Emulator 
because it just isn't.

I agree with metlslime, I bet for quake performance comes down to graphics card performance and so driver issues. My MacBook has integrated intel graphics which isn't the hottest performing setup ever but does have good linux drivers (one of the reasons I didn't get the Pro, in fact) and my nehwarp.exe performance is fine (~70 fps timedemo-ing the included warp demos). I don't have Windows installed to compare it with that. 
What hardware of the MacBook Pro isn't supported? Not that I would buy a powerbook again, anyway; just curious. 
A Friend Of Mine 
used to play WOW with wine 
They have nvidia graphics cards, which means you're either stuck with a buggy unreliable undebuggable but reasonably performant binary blob from nvidia or a slow-ass missing-features but probably-working open source driver.

I don't know how well wifi works either, but that's spotty enough on the macbooks already. 
Test Your Level... 
No he tenido la dichosa oportunidad de probar tu design, un dia after the Work on the office we can play it!!! OK???
Congratulations for your passion for design.. muahaha


PD. Callate! 
Aqui se habla ingles... entiendes ?

I Quit 
I have to put this aside for awhile or my landlord will give me the boot. I've been yelling all week. Made it finally to the 4th map but I'm tired of sucking void. Am I the only knucklehead that decided to start out on hard? Ugh.

P.S. Thank you for your work. 
No Problem 
Thanks for playing 
Try The New 
coop modes, that's what they're there for ... 
No One To Coop With 
My gf usually leaves the room when I quake. 
You don't necessarily need another person to play coop mode. 
Coop Modes 
Read the readme - they just make it either tougher or easier depending on which mode you select. I think one for example 'halves all enemies health' or suchlike. Makes it a bit more fun if too tough!! 
Played through this mother of massiveness the past 3 days once again. This captures the weirdness of Quake so well. It feels so different from the "usual 'unimaginative' polished and slick" maps. To me the map Sealed City (warpc) is a great example how a modern Quake could be like. And I just love the Doom-ish parts in it.
Your imagination (and execution of it) is simply jaw-dropping. 
Post #232 
That's quite a number.

Thanks Spirit, I think I've superseded this in my current project, though there's a long way to go yet. 
ijed rockzzzz :)

tchak if i ever finish will be a massive map to... 
The new one is getting even evil-er. And I'm finally getting somewhere with this qc malarky.

Btw, warpc was, for me, the worst map of the pack - I had to completely revamp whole areas multiple times and it was basically rebuilt from the 'medieval city' and 'babylonian garden' maps. The second one having died a death after I got sick of bright green grass and dodgy statues.

So I salvaged some of the subterranian parts of it for warpc. 
Can't Wait To See Your New Release Ijed! 
and about Warpspasm, one of the things I love it for is the background story. Shame that no one seems to have paid much attention to it, but when I read it for the first time, it's as engrossing as any good novel. 

The new project is going to follow the same storyline as the original Quake, but I'm thinking about filling in the blanks, since the original was just a paragraph. 
what happens in the thirty minutes between receiving the phone call and arriving at the installation? Could be the quake guy gets stuck in traffic, and saves a cat from a house fire. 
are you remaking all 4 eps? I thought it was just ep 3. 
I'm doing ep3, and there's episode one under construction by goldenboy.

Maybe others will get interested enough to undertake an entire episdode. I thought about asking the various authors of the remake challenge maps for permission to use those, but that'd be stepping on maps we already have built in beta form.

I prefer if a single mapper does each episode as well (seven maps). Maybe that's an unrealistic expectation, but time will tell.

As to the storyline, I was thinking of backstory for each level - why it's there, what it is. If the player doesn't want to read it then they're not forced to.

I like depth. 
Well My Map Is Open For Whatever... 
the source is availiable to anyone who wants it, I could expand on it, whatever. Someone else could expand it! Or you could just use it. I could see a quoth2 expanded version. I always thought it would have been cool to have added a large outside are to it - kinda 'surface' type area!. I pictured the exit being able to see up some rocky hill which had the start are visible...

At the mo though (and the reason I haven't done and speedmaps or posted any shots) I am working hard on an episode. Unfortunately it will be a while before anything is revealed because of texturing issues shall we say, and the fact that I will create each map from scratch to completion ONE AT A TIME.

I am locked into it. 
wicked ricky! can't wait!!! give us some screenies when you can :) 
Just reading through all your comments again.

I'm learning alot. 
And So, 
After reading all that again;

I'm a bolshy cunt.

We need two more mappers who have no social life or love for their families.

Mappers who're prepared to do seven maps at a stride. 
Are you looking for .. slaves ... ? 
Funnily Enough. 
Only last night I was looking through a couple of these (for the first time since playing them), running through them on God mode (and I'm quite chuffed with the WarpE_033 I did ;)).

I don't know whether you're a bolshy cunt or not but it reminded me just how brutal, gruelling, massive and impressive these maps are. 
No, the mentally ill. The ones who get enjoyment out of a gruelling slog of mapping, taking place over months.

I don't know about how good these maps were. There's not enough detail - warpd especially should have been alot better made, and I didn't take advantage of everything in warpb or c either. Pure gameplay wise I think they're ok, but the visuals are part of real gameplay. 
The ones who get enjoyment out of a gruelling slog of mapping, taking place over months.

That's what it felt like playing the maps ;)


That's a good assessment of the maps but the sheer size and continual challenge were also very notable in their own right. 
Harsh Assessment 
I personally think this is one of the great packs. 
I would have to dig in the post, but I don't recall if I have commented on Warpspasm, given some earlier PC troubles I came to the mod a bit late. The best compliment i can give it is that is was the Alien Vendetta (the Doom 2 megawad that was even better than Hell Revealed) of Quake mapping. 
Show Me The Monay 
what do you need slaves for ijed? another episode remix? 
So far it's two mappers (me, goldenboy) and Dr Shadowborg and myself coding - with help from other sources as well.

The idea is to recreate the entire game as we'd always wanted it to be, concentrating the Quakiness as it were.

Ideally it should be one mapper per episode, meaning a total of seven maps. It's alot to ask, but we're all prepared to put as much time into it as is necessary - it'd be ready when it's finished ;)

The size of the project so far is alot of monster remixes / modifications, maybe one and a half episodes in various stages of beta and a fair few client enhancments like moving water etc. included as well. 
W A R P S P A S M is a pack we will never forget!!! :)

pure fun ;) 
so hows the remixes going anyway? i hope they are vastly different from the originals, like the first half of speedy's wind tunnels remix.

give us progress reports to keep me excited :D 
But they're all very different indeed. I'm looking at ep3 now and realising in an effort to make each map completely different from the last only one of the seven has lava. For a runic episode that's practically sacralige. 
Is It E3M6? 
Judging both from the screenshots, and the fact that it used lava more menacingly than the other E3 maps...

Looking forward your project, ijed. Warp is one of my all-time favorites and if you say that your E3 remix is even better, then I'll be in heaven :) 
It's a smaller scale of map, but more detailed. It's definitely better though.

There's some screenshots at: 
yeah i think smaller is fine. there's no need to have maps the size of the warp ones. especially if they're remakes of quake maps. i like lava :( 
The lava's making a comeback. I broke the model limts by replacing all lava pits in one map with rotating machinery traps / grinders. Unnecessary, and breaks the map for alot of users. 
Currently Replaying 
Skill 3, coop 1.

Just finished WarpB in 95:59 with nearly 100%: 14/16 secrets, 511/522 kills. One zombie got stuck in the architecture (lucky fucker) and I couldn't get him gibbed no matter what. I also didn't really feel like finding two obscure secrets to shoot down ten more Zombies.

I missed the opportunity of Quad + Trinity like a blind idiot, too.

It was a good challenge. At first it seemed much easier because dying wasn't a concern anymore, but that feeling went away as I delved into the map further and further. Skill 3 might have been a wrong choice, with Shamblers et al being relentless in their attacks, but oh well!

I also found the rune shrine and got to admit, nice tribute :) 
I think I know which zombie got stuck as well - on the slope near where you start, entering the base.

Never remembered to fix it. He can be killed if you wait until you hear is idle and have an explosion in the same spot at the same time.

The Shamblers in the tunnel were a mistake as well - they replaced a Gug once I found his shot pattern (divide in two) meant the player could just back away and never get hit. Really I should have fixed that up to work better, keeping the Gug instead of the Shamby horde. 
Does anybody still have SielWolf's Warp demos? Thx 
Not Me . . . 
Could be they were all lost when the Hub was attacked - and I've since changed hardware. 
You Mean When I Was Too Stupid To Uhm... 
The WarpC and WarpD archives are corrupt.. 
Argh, Bummer 
Then I should quickly add that it was not really a backup but a random folder with Quake files, heh. 
Where's Sielwolf? 
Did he give up gaming? Did I miss something? 
i email him some time ago... he have been very busy... real life eating him alive :)

but he didn�t quit! 
Trinca I Hope 
the real life doesn't eat you too 
that shitty real life i hate it 
hehe spy sorry not to respond your map beta :\ i will try today... sorry my friend but life is eating me alive to!!!

more like my KIDS eat me alive :\

the smaller wakeup a lot at night :( i�m always wasted at 21:30 :\

but i will reply this week to you my friend! 
Offtop Here 
trinca. i wish i could have a family/kids, but after my wife is left me... you the happiest guy. GL. 
Offtopic Again 
get another one ;)

at least u can change the menu :)

go for it now!!! 
Warpc & Warpd Demos 
I've got both of these. Willem, could you delete the 2 broken archives from Quaketastic? (that would be warpc_sw62.rar and warpd_sw59.rar). I'll then up my copies.

BTW, I'm looking for sielwolf's demo of Five Rivers Land (it was called Anyone? 
I Am Creepy 
jdhack, can you email the demos to me at Thx 
Demos Upped 
They're a bit big for email, so I converted them to zips and put them on Quaketastic:

And thx Spirit - non-corrupt and everything! :) 
Now that there is a Fitz SDL 0.85 for OS X and Linux, I looked forward to playing Warpspasm on my Mac (and to future 2 player coop with my PC and Mac using Fitz 085).

I know there isn't an easy way to address this, but what would be great is if somehow the demos could play in FitzQuake 0.85

So I'm just making this a note for future reference as I consider Nehahra, Travail and Warpspasm sort of the big 3 Quake mods that stand in their own special league. 
Big, uh, bigup. Thanks. 
I think that Sielwolf's demos are lost, unless anyone has them backed up - the fall of the Hub.

I vaguely remember that someone did, but then again I'm half cut. 
adding client-side support for other protocols is one of the things on my list for a future version. Aguirre's protocols and the nehahra protocol are fairly similar to the standard quake protocol and so supporting them should be possible. 
Thinking On 
This was a nice learning curve. It wasn't pretty or special, but it got across an idea.

On to RQ;

We really need talented, creative people who are, most importantly, dedicated.

The project is already something that knocks the shit out of any industry effort, and we're not even half-way.

We need you, mother funcers. I wouldn't want this to be a 'five guys / gals made a great partial once'.

Yeah, I'm banging the drum, and won't stop until it's finished.

The game you love = better.

Help us.

The thing we really need is opinionated cunts, and I know you're all professionals at that. If you can map, model or code then that's a bonus. 
> I think that Sielwolf's demos are lost, unless anyone has them
> backed up - the fall of the Hub.

Yes, if only some kind person had uploaded them to a new site, and then posted the links in a convenient place, say 3 posts above yours ;-)

> I vaguely remember that someone did, but then again I'm half cut.

Only half? 
Averaging 3/4 
Corrupted Data File 
Finally wanted to play this on mac using Fitz 0.85 SDL beta + Quoth 2. I downloaded from and right after the game with

-heapsize 128000 -quoth -game warp +map start

I get an error saying "Corrupted data file". Am I doing something wrong or is the download fucked? 
I have these in warp/
5ae38b85568a8b8317d533985da22f3e pak0.pak
dfe0a1f86819713649a9257c1e4e0e2d pak1.pak
eeb6d8f828b8d00148ebe01c4091b0bb pak2.pak 
I have the same - thanks. I think quake injector may have fucked up my quoth install. 
Is 0.85 svailable for Mac? Where might one download it? 
00480ea1008b9fe2e134896a015a31fd quoth/pak0.pak
7e67039da2527d95f61c215ef6f879cd quoth/pak1.pak
15adde4d62463f2384eace9b3d6076a5 quoth/pak2.pak
91d68e864df2e58c968fb3bdb0e238c6 quoth/pak51.pak (no idea what that is) 
Big Willie

Hey, has anyone ever considered a 4-player coop run through Warpspasm? Let's do it! 
That was the problem - qi wanted to install quoth, which I already had, so I cancelled that. It left partly downloaded files in my quoth dir. If you ask me, qi should a) make backups of files / dirs it overwrites (or at least ask me to) and b) installs should be atomic. 
Hell yes, thanks negke! 
Willem Killem 
You have quite a bit of catching-up to do, right? - hf. 
That definitely is an important feature (prompting before overwriting). Somehow we forgot about it, it is on the list now. 
I volunteer for that! 
Let Me Know If Anything Breaks 
So I can nod my head and scratch my beard. 
Point Of Fact 
Does anyone have the source - I don't. 
the map sources? 
I uploaded to the Hub before it was attacked, then changed pc. A few have them I think - Spirit, Trinca?

Probably wouldn't go back and fix anything - warp is a closed book for me, and I wouldn't recommend crawling through the maps. There's alot of fundamental layout errors. 
I Have It 

As a matter of fact, I was poking through the maps just now, looking for secrets I missed. Still looking for the rune shrine in warpd... it's the three tiny buttons scattered throughout the level, right? 
OK, so what does it mean if 0.85 locks up my Mac? It runs for a few seconds and everything looks great and then -- hard lock.

Is there something I can send to someone so they can debug something or am I boned? 
I should mention that 0.80 works perfectly. 
They're in the big open room with the walkway and pits down below - there's also something hidden in the ceiling near the Vores.

Also, the trinity is warpb is on a ledge with some runes drawn on a secret (brick tex) door - I remember Shambler asking about that one. 
BTW, the download link in the top post is broken. 
not sure. on windows, if you go over the new clipnodes limit, for example, the engine will just crash without any error message as soon as you try to load the map, but that doesn't sound like the problem you're having. 
No, this seems to happen with all levels. The level will load, I'm running around and then maybe 10-15 seconds later, bam, hard lock. It's really weird. 
What's your hardware specs? Do you have an ATI card? 
Macbook Pro
2.33 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo
4 GB
ATI RadeonX1600 (256 MB)

And the 0.80 release works perfectly so it must be something changed from 0.80 to 0.85. 
I have an MBP with NVidia card, which works fine with 0.85. I didn't do the 0.85 port. I guess you'll have to ask the dude who did this version. metl and I plan to do an "official" SDL port that will replace all Fitz versions, but it may still take a while. That version will be based on 0.85 and SDL 1.3. 
I believe it was Baker. Oh well. I'll just stick with 0.8 then until a better one gets released. Thanks! 
The next time it crashes, send me the log. Maybe I can spot something somewhere that's easy to fix. 
The Spammers Are Always So Polite! 
I just replayed WarpB. Died once, trying to kill a Gug with grenades. And then realised it's very easy with plasma particularly if you change strafe direction once he's shot.

Anyway. It was surprisingly fun. I'm not sure how I managed that. Still very hard though. I only just made the end battle. Going into the final arena with only 50 nails and lots of grenades probably didn't help. I got more secrets this time, 12/16.

Ijed you are right about the insta-gib nails from Quad + Trinity, what a joyous effect :D.

Did I read right that these maps had been extensively if not exclusively tested by Sielwolf?? That explains a LOT ;)

I learnt a few things this time. There's a lot of Enforcers so plasma is your friend. Those damn Bobs don't like it either. It's easier to tackle Bobs and....those flying snot things in corridors where they can't dodge. I still haven't worked out how to tackle Spawn, I should really know that by now.

Oh, one more thing. I remember you saying that there's a progression in enviromental hazards in the map, in particularly slime > lava > void. I realised in this map, they are all equally dangerous, the slime and lava are inescapable anyway. So presumably the progression is solely in atmosphere rather than gameplay effect. Interesting. 
Plasma becomes the primary weapon, the rest really there to take down the weaker positioned enemies.

It means that you have to manage cells carefully.

I kick myself about the x7 damage nails - I should have made it an almost insta-find and spawned in lots of extra fodder. I'm guessing you only managed maybe 10 seconds or so of the combined effect?

Yeah, Sielwolf was my playtester - one reason why AguirRe (who was my other support) made the extra coop modes (less Quoth monsters came first, super easy mode and more Quoth later) was just so he could play the thing without getting shredded.

Learning curve.

Having said that warp was playtested alot, so if you hit the rhythm of the gameplay it should be fun. But barrier to entry will put off alot of players.

I don't think anybody has a decent tactic for spawn apart from fool the Ai into getting stuck then nail the fucker. Those bumps do a fair bit of damage, considering. I still overuse them.

And yeah, the atmosphere was what I was talking about more than anything for the env hazards. I tend to look at it in terms of psychology - what fears the player?

Maybe an 'omnipresent grey pit' wasn't the best final.

Warpd had alot of potential, just starting to explore that kind of ambience now in a remake map of e3m4. 
the spawns didn't cause much problems for me in b and c.
they are placed in predictable areas, so when i was paying attention, i could usually blast them before they started jumping.
while this would be lame for normal monsters, i actually felt this was good with spawns, because whenever i'd take damage from them, i felt it was my own fault for not paying attention and blowing them up early. 
Well there's one point in warpc where I drop four in on the player. Not locking the entrance (the exit has a Shambler) was an act of generosity.

Should have done that and given an auto MH beforehand. 
Map 1, The Rooftop Secret. 
How do you get there ?
I know there is a crate with a teleport, but I can't break it or anything.
You can tell me, I won't tell anyone else ... 
I just found it ...

Sorry ! 
Skill 3 
In useless retrospect, I think that skill 3 was something of a missed opportunity here. Since the start map gives you the rune, it would have been cool to mess around with the episode entities - for example, putting info_player_start2 in the middle of the map, or making func_episode_gate powered logic gates to change ambushes around or make more monsters spawn (the downside of this is that you wouldn't be able to get 100% kills in skill 2, though...)

All in all would probably make the episode (moreso) harder beyond necessity though. :P

Would be cool to see some future Q1SP exploit this. 
If it got to hard you could try the -Quoth option.

Making skill 3 genuinely different would have been cool. Like going through Kell's Contract Revoked to find all the runes. 
You Know... 
You can make entities only appear in skill 3, should you want to... 
Fix For The Progs/s_plas.spr Error 
To anyone that's running into this error:
QUAKE ERROR: Mod_LoadModel: progs/s_plas.spr not found

Note that the quake directory that contains your "id1" directory, should not just contain "warp", but also "quoth"! This is because quoth is a dependency. 
Just tried playing it on the DK2 - latest Occulus Rift devkit. Was a cool, but very strange experience.

The scale of things in Quake is very weird when you're actually inside it.

And the position of the weapons. Because the Quake guy is a stumpy little dude, and the position of the weapons so, uh, strange, you basically have a gun for a dick.

The plasma dildo was especially misogynistic.

And by looking down you can see the muzzleflash model in your invisible stomach.

Still feel a bit queasy because of the speed of movement, but apparently that's normal until you get your VR legs.

It'd be great to have a proper mod using the Hydra's though.

I played one for HL2 where you had to gesture to use ironsights, throw grenades and reload.

Imagine axing a Shambler for 'real' - you'd probably end up breaking your hand on the desk. 
Sorry For The Necrobump

completed with about 2 rockets fired and 10-15 plasma bolts fired. :) 
Just lots of infighting and fiends jumping off the platform? 
Just bunnyhopping along the edges as fast as possible and waiting for the infighting to stop. That could be an interesting puzzle map concept, using movement to complete a map with an impossible amount of enemies (Which must all be killed before being able to exit 
This turned 10 years old and nobody noticed. 
But You Did 
Warpspasm is the Xlarve's Dream of yesteryear. It can be fun and is well made but can get repetitive. Not for everyone. I enjoyed many parts of both of your massive worlds, but I don't see this as having as widespread an influence as other releases. 
Shadow Tower Secret 
Does anyone know how to get the Shadow Tower secret in WarpC (Sealed City)? The one with the RL atop a tower with a spiral staircase. ijed said it's one of the hardest in the pack. The 100% demo links people posted back in the day are now dead. 
The links in post 264 seem to work fine for me.

In case, I have the files too.

They require an engine that plays demo protocol 15 back fine. This means glwarp, markv etc.

However, I remember my markv crashed during a playback of the warpd demo.

The warpc_sw62 file contains a warpc_rl demo
which shows the way to get to the shadow tower. 
In #277 there are links to zip versions of c and d.

And the demos are protocol 10002, not 15, so you need and engine that supports the 10002 format. 
Thanks, too bad QuakeSpasm doesn't support protocol 10002. Does Mark V? 
Mark V only supports protocol 10002 to the extent that Warpspasm start demos needed it to playback.

Requiem uses protocol 10002 as the protocol all the time, you might try that engine. 
I used the included glwarp.exe and it played back fine. Thanks. 
You said you'd be watching demos. Requiem does have some sort of demo rewind and fast forward because it based off JoeQuake.

I would imagine Warpspasm 100% demos would be rather long. 
Yes it was purely for watching the demos parubaru mentioned. Before downloading Requiem I thought I'd try the engine mods included with the map pack. glwarp.exe played them back fine, albeit without the rewind/fast-forward functionality as you said. At least the demo was a 100% run and quite fun to watch.

Speaking of demos, the only playback functions I'm aware of with vanilla Quake/Quakespasm/FitzQuake is play and pause. Are there any others? Googling turned up nothing. 
Vanilla Quake/Quakespasm/DarkPlaces that is really all you can do, although you can fast forward with host_framerate. Rewind is simply impossible, rewind ability in an engine requires a fair bit of work.

Mark V has demo rewind/fast forward better than JoeQuake with the arrow keys. Press tab (+showscores shows how much of the demo remains to be played.) qbism super8 (a WinQuake style engine) also has demo rewind based on the Mark V style implementation.

glwarp is a neat engine for its time. One upon a time was only huge maps engine with classic look. 
Do I just drop any of the mark_v exes into my Quake directory?
And speaking of engines, what's the best way to run Nehahra nowadays? Quakespasm + Spirit repack from Quaddicted? 
The best way to run Nehahra is probably still with one of the original engines built especially for it. Nehahra is a bit of a special case, and a lot of what it does (and the way it does it) dates from a time before things were really well standardized. Consequently, Nehahra tends to do many things in a way that's not really compatible with everything else (and some are outright broken, like adding extra protocol functionality without changing the protocol version). Even DarkPlaces gave up on maintaining Nehahra compatibility a long time ago. 
@maiden - Mark V runs Nehahra (put this in the nehahra dir fmod.dll. Add -game nehahra -nehahra to the command line.

Engines that can play Nehahra: Mark V, JoeQuake, Requiem, engines that come in the zip if they still run.

Do "nomonsters 1" to stop the annoying strafe if you want.

@mh -- Hehehe. You ought to see how nice Mark V runs Nehahra or Zerstorer. Both mods like to screw up your settings really badly when playing cutscenes or Nehahra playing between level demos. They mess with your crosshair, wateralpha, fov, viewsize. Mark V treats those as "display hints" instead, your settings remain unchanged. 
I found that the 'best' way to run Nehahra
depended some on the hardware, graphics card etc.

Three computers, three engines. The orinigal ones are worth a try, and I seem to recall on one machine I eventually went with nehwarp (an engine in this release).

Most currently I used a very recent markv, which was updated to support the Nehahra fog system. I think you can just drop the markv files into the Quake directory, yes.

I set cl_autodemo 0 in the config, and recommend the command: cutscene 0. Launch with the command: markv -nehahra -game nehahra for the fog. Apart, from the initial stutter upon launch I had no problems with the pack. 
Mh, Baker, Parubaru 
Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. So no Quakespasm for Nehahra? I recently ran Zerstorer with a recent build of QS (0.92 I think) and didn't notice any issues. Just wondering. 
QuakeSpasm doesn't have any of the Nehahra-specific engine features, so it's best not to use it for Nehahra. The maps load but various stuff will be broken (I'm not sure to what extent).

Zerstorer on the other hand, I think runs on any Quake engine (I remember playing it on Winquake when I didn't have a gpu.) 
I just did c:/quake/quakespasm.exe -game nehahra -nehahra -->Single Player->New Game and it did a Quake Error "sprites/explode1.spr" has wrong version number, should be 32".

Plus Nehahra requires some qc functions that aren't in original Quake like PF_changepitch, PF_sqrt.

(Also the progs.dat with just certain maps like to crash Quakespasm if you remove the sprite32s. Quakespasm Spiked ironically has a fix for that.)

For completeness, the wrong menu shows (it shows, I guess the "Seal of Nehahra" menu instead of the game menu --- Nehahra's actual menu is named differently), the fmod .xm music won't play, Nehahra needs some extra cvars available or it won't work right (which I think is limited to cutscenes). Plus Nehahra does not use what we view as the normal "fog" worldspawn entity, it rolls it own way via an svc. Nehahra also has some custom effects (certain particle numbers it treats differently).

Even with a non-Mark V engine that properly supports Nehahra --- all kinds of stuff likes to mess with your settings during the course of gameplay. You might have a certain fov or crosshair you like, perhaps a certain r_wateralpha setting --- and Nehahra will smash your config to pieces.

(Zerstorer likes to do some of that as well. If you use Quake default settings, someone may not notice --- like fov 90, viewsize 100, r_wateralpha 1, crosshair 0 -- you may never know it happens).

Nehahra is difficult to deal with.

mh wrote a long commentary about Nehahra once. It was a good read.

I got obsessed a bit with Nehahra, pushed my stack of engine coding chip into the pot and said "All In" a few years ago and kept defanging it until I could play it and enjoy it with zero annoyances.

(Then I think I stopped engine coding for 2 weeks and played Nehahra with some frequency -- -haha. Nehahra really is quite a masterpiece and it becomes clear after the annoyances are eradicated). 
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